Former Gurus?

[Matilda]

Are there any mustachians that read and followed the advice of other financial "gurus", before discovering the principles of FIRE?  Dave Ramsey, Suze Orman, any of those guys?  If you did, are you generally pleased with the advice you followed, or annoyed?

Personally, back when I was in a financially solvent position (right now floundering in a sea of debt with my hair on fire-- go ahead and picture it...), I read Smart Women Finish Rich (David something) and followed the plan as best I could.  He, too, went on and ON about not frittering money on lattes and such, I think he even called it the latte principle or some such-- when you needed to be saving for retirement.  BUT.  He argued that women needed to stash 12% of their gross income in their 401(k) or similar (12 because women live longer than men!) and then build up a stash of emergency savings to equal 6-12 months of expenses... and then, spend all the rest.  I guess.  I put 12% in my 401(k), several thousand in my savings, and THEN frittered all the rest of my earnings on lattes (meals out, hard back books, you get the idea.)  As far as I can remember, he never touched to idea of saving more than that, or purposely living below one's means in order to reach retirement earlier. 

I'm annoyed, because the idea honestly never occurred to me.  I get that it wasn't the focus of the books, but since he was writing about being prepared to retire *some day*, why not add in a tiny mention of getting there even faster?  I never made much money (never more than 30k/yr) but it was plenty enough.  I could have saved a whole lot more.  The other thing is that instead of the "put everything in index funds" concept that I read here, and understand!  Smart Women focused on trying to beat the market-- how to invest here one year, here another.  I made a bit of a mess of my 401(k), divvying up my allotments into areas that I had no idea what I was doing.

So I was wondering if anyone else has regrets about their exes..

[Zikoris]

I used to follow Suze Orman, and have no complaints. Her "Women and Money" book was what got me into thinking about personal finance to begin with, and got me to actually put my bank accounts under a microscope and make some changes - switching to a no-fee bank account, finding a savings account with higher interest, paying attention to where my money was going, and so on.

Pretty solid system for beginners. I've just "graduated" to a higher level since then.

[runningthroughFIRE]

There's actually quite a few people on this forum who followed Dave Ramsey and got something good out of it.  The concensus seems to be that DR's advice is great for people who need a fire extinguisher for their hair, but he's pretty lacking on the savings side once you're debt-free.

I don't blame these people for shooting low when it comes to retirement savings.  Some people need baby steps, and if you propose saving 50%+ of your income, they'll blow you off as being ridiculous and not listen to anything you have to say on the matter.  10% or 12% of savings in your 401(k) beats what most people do, and it's a goal that your average Joe/Jane feels they can reach.

[PFHC]

I skimmed some Dave Ramsey stuff and that helped to create our plan for ridding ourselves of debt aggressively. I know it goes against math, but we did his pay your lowest balance first and that really got the ball rolling.

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[Cassie]

I enjoyed watching Suze Orman on TV & I have read many of her books. I don't enjoy the Simple Dollar much anymore either.

[Zikoris]

I read Dave Ramsey as well, but it didn't do anything for me because:

1. WAY too much religion.
2. I've never really done the debt thing - I had a small student loan and paid it off, and that was it.
3. I have no interest in buying a house, having kids (and by extension saving for their education), going back to school, or giving money to a church.
4. I've always had some sort of emergency fund, so that was nothing new.

So the majority of his advice was useless to me.

[Us2bCool]

I read the "Blast Dave Ramsey" thread with interest, but to be honest, he saved us from financial ruin. The problem wasn't me, it was my husband, who didn't think it was necessary to get out of debt and saw nothing wrong with spending every penny we had on useless crap*. I basically presented him with DR's basic premise and told him that we were going to do it. I didn't give him a choice; I went through the house picking out valuable items that we weren't using (musical instruments were a big one) and told him to pick one thing he wanted to keep. He had fit after fit, but I just started snowballing the hell out of our debt.

That started in January 2010. By March one of the cars was paid off. Over the next few years he started seeing that debts were getting paid off and our lifestyle wasn't taking a hit. We were completely debt free in two years and have been living a happily frugal life ever since.  There's more to the story but let's just say that my husband came around when he found out that we suddenly had almost $3K extra each month that he hadn't even missed (yes, that's what we were spending on minimum payments for everything we owed, and that didn't include the mortgage). It all goes to savings and retirement now (also how we paid off that car so fast in my other pos

So basically, yeah, I don't really go for DR's religious approach, but I understand he's just playing to his audience. I try to remember that at one time my own hair was on fire, his system helped me put it out.

*In case you're wondering, of course my husband's a great guy, very smart and has a very good well-paying job; he just grew up dirt poor and has some complicated emotions associated with money. I handle all the finances because it makes him a nervous wreck.

[Matilda]

I don't blame these people for shooting low when it comes to retirement savings.  Some people need baby steps, and if you propose saving 50%+ of your income, they'll blow you off as being ridiculous and not listen to anything you have to say on the matter.  10% or 12% of savings in your 401(k) beats what most people do, and it's a goal that your average Joe/Jane feels they can reach.

That's definitely true.  And it's not bad advice per se... I guess I just wish I'd cottoned on to the idea of FIRE earlier.  In a similar vein, I was fascinated by The Millionaire Next Door, but didn't think to apply the general principles to my own life, because I sort of misunderstood them. 

[Retired To Win]

I enjoyed watching Suze Orman on TV...

Me, too.  But it was mostly for the entertainment.

Over the years, I've read and learned some things from Harry Brown, Suze and Ric Edelmann.  But I wasn't a FOLLOWER.  FWIW.

[sol]

Dave Ramsey is a scam artist, despite offering people decent advice on managing their debt.

He sells investments services at ridiculously inflated prices by making wildly false claims about investment returns.  He helps people get out of debt, and then he steals from them. 

His business model is to identify people who are bad with money, help them find some money they're currently wasting, and the lie to them to steal that money for himself instead of whatever other BS they were previously wasting it on.  It's ingenious.  And evil.

I guess it's slightly better than just stealing, but let's just say he's never going to be invited to dinner at my place.

[pachnik]

I had never heard of Dave Ramsey until I got here. 

I used to read Gail Vaz-Oxlade's blog and watch her TV shows "Til Debt Do Us Part" and "Princess".  I remember feeling quite smart while I watched them because I  didn't have any debt unlike the people she was working with.  "Til Debt Do Us Part" was about couples with debt and focusing on paying that off.  Princess was more about young folks who needed help with goal setting and cutting down on crazy expenses i.e. Botox at 27 years old. 

However, I was also saving only about 10-15% of my income and frittering the rest away.  Once I got here, that ended and I now save about 35%  of my monthly income.   So glad I found this place!

[coppertop]

I enjoy listening to DR on my drive home in the afternoon because I am fascinated with the messes some people get themselves into.

I cringe when I hear some of the advertisements, though.  In particular, I think paying for meal plans (emeals.com, advertised by his daughter) is a ridiculous waste of money and anyone who genuinely wanted to help people avoid debt and frivolous spending would never advertise them on his radio show.