For the TSP participants - How do your compare?

[dude]

I know, I know, comparison is the thief of joy, blah, blah, blah.  There's still something in all of us that can't resist knowing how we stack up vis-à-vis others.  Here's the most recent TSP figures:

http://federalnewsradio.com/federal-report/2016/03/where-are-you-on-the-tsp-totem-pole/

Interesting to note that the top 4 brackets represent the 90th percentile.  In other words, 90% of TSP participants have less than $250k, and 60% have less than $50k.  Obviously, those numbers don't tell you much in a vacuum, since their significance can vary widely based on age, salary, number of years to retirement, etc.  Also, there are nearly 1,000 fewer millionaires this year compared to last year (4,167) around this time.

[wenchsenior]

Interesting. The bummer is we are smack in the middle of the third bracket. The upside is that number is after 16 years of participation rather than 24 and we are maxing contributions. Given what a rocking deal the TSP is, it is a little dispiriting to see how low the balances are for so many employees.

[Sailor Sam]

I've got ~105k in TSP, after 10 years of participation. Uniformed, so no matching for me. I'm a little bummed to only be in the second bracket, but like wenchsenior, at least I'm beating the pants off the average participation time.

[primozaj]

Just over $250k with almost 16 years in... have never contributed the max amount but slowly working up to it this year.

I'm also surprised how few people take advantage of this.  Though once I retire I'm not sure I'm keeping it with TSP, I'll probably move it to Vanguard or something.

[davisgang90]

I've got ~105k in TSP, after 10 years of participation. Uniformed, so no matching for me. I'm a little bummed to only be in the second bracket, but like wenchsenior, at least I'm beating the pants off the average participation time.

I'm in the same boat(!) as Sailor Sam.  I started putting money in as soon as military was eligible.  I've got other IRAs and such and a bitch'in military retirement so no complaints.

[dude]

Unless you are retiring very soon, my bet is TSP will have addressed the shortcomings that lead people to roll their accounts over to IRAs.  The TSP is well aware of the issues and have already been studying ways to address them.  I expect that within the next 5 years or so, we'll see some of those changes.  In particularly, the limit on partial withdrawals.  Another is the pro-rata simultaneous withdrawals from the regular and Roth TSPs.  If those changes (and others) are made, there will be very few reasons to leave TSP (for retiree participants, that is; for beneficiary participants, the lack of a legacy IRA option makes moving the money out a much easier choice).

I've got 18+ years in, much of it at the upper paygrades, and I've maxed out the TSP for the past 11 years (including catch-ups since Jan 2015), so I'm in one of the higher percentiles, but it's all relative to your income and expenses, so the absolute number isn't that important.

[Gunny]

I ERd from the FEDs in August.  At that point my balance was 455k at exactly 14 years.  I don't know exactly where it's at right now, but I know the market is down from August.  I'm not touching my TSP for years as my pension more than covers my expenses. 

[dude]

Good on you military guys for contributing to TSP!  It wasn't available when I served, but I was able to buy my 6 years of military time to go toward my FERS pension -- a huge benefit.

[dude]

I ERd from the FEDs in August.  At that point my balance was 455k at exactly 14 years.  I don't know exactly where it's at right now, but I know the market is down from August.  I'm not touching my TSP for years as my pension more than covers my expenses.

Right on, Gunny!  You're set for life!

[JJ-]

$41k with 4 years participation. Just started maxing this year, with 27 til MRA. Long way to go --

[dude]

$41k with 4 years participation. Just started maxing this year, with 27 til MRA. Long way to go --

But man, are you starting out on the right foot!!  Compound interest is sure to be your best friend 27 years from now.

[PhrugalPhan]

Nice to read this, although I am not in the Fed system my GF is.  And she is in the top 1% of the data.  And yet she still worries about not having enough (her expenses are low, but she does want to travel some after retirement.)  I keep telling her she'll be fine, and I think its starting to sink in.  I'll pass this along to her - hopefully it will help her.

[CheapskateWife]

I've got 12 years in the system and a mere $81K...Hubs has a similar amount as AD.

We discovered MMM 2 years ago and didn't start maxing TSP's until that point in time; God do I feel like a fool for not taking advantage of the tax savings all those years.

What blows me away is the idea that only 50% of active duty servicemen participate.  I really do wish the DoD would do more to push the program.  For civilians, you are automatically enrolled at least 1%...is it different for uniformed services?

[Sailor Sam]

It not automatic for uniformed. That being said, I force any underling that crosses my Command to sign up with at least 2%, if they haven't joined TSP already.

Well, I can't actually compel them. But I outrank most of them by a helluvalot, I'm usually first or second ranker in their Command, and I'm intimidating. So it works. I also guarantee them I will help retract the contribution if they find themselves starving. So far, no one has asked me.

[zephyr911]

$41k with 4 years participation. Just started maxing this year, with 27 til MRA. Long way to go --

Civilian: 4.5 years in system, not quite $50K, but maxed for the first time last year and am set to do so indefinitely afterward. I'm also paying back TSP loans, so 2016 should add over $30K, plus any investment gains.

Mil: I was about halfway through my 6 years of active duty in the AF when they opened it to active duty and I started immediately, but (sadly) it was wiped out by bad choices soon after (2007-2008). Started again with portions of my ANG pay and have about $14K in now. Not contributing any more since I've gotten my civ portion up to the max, so I can just sit back and watch it compound for now. Chances are I will keep my ANG status longer than GS so I will be back to investing drill pay at that point.

[fattest_foot]

I'm at about $26k, going on 4 years in July. This year will be the first that I max it.

I wish I had contributed when I was in the military (we maxed our Roth IRA's a few years, but that's it), and done more in the first 3 years.

At best mine will get to maybe $350k before I ER though. So I'll never get into those larger brackets.

[zephyr911]

Hell I'll be lucky to hit $100K in TSP before I leave fed service.

[dude]

With recent ups and downs, my TSP has fluctuated between $490k-$530k -- it sits at $522k right now.  If I were to stay in my job until mandatory retirement (57), it would be almost guaranteed to be well over $1mil.  But I plan to go at eligibility (53.5). I'd figured on having $800k when I went, but with that date drawing ever nearer, I'd need a return to average returns to have a chance, and I don't think that will happen over the next 3 years.  At any rate, I've got $31,000/year going in there from now until then, so I should get past $600k with even marginal returns.  I shouldn't need to withdraw more than about $12,000 when I retire (likely less), so even on a $600k portfolio, I'd be looking at a 1% burn rate, which should allow my account to continue growing steadily.  I figure it should hit the $1m mark about 7 years after I retire.

[Imustacheyouaquestion]

29 years old, $33k, 2.5 years in. One of the best pieces of advice I got from another fed was to start with the biggest TSP contribution I thought I could handle, then increase it proportionally every time I got a step increase, promotion, or cost of living increase.

By year 2, I was maxing my TSP. I already have planned that with my next step increase, I'll max my HSA contributions (currently about $75/paycheck). Using TSP, HSA contributions, and automatic savings allotments, I've kept my net paychecks the same or smaller than when I first started, even though my gross pay has increased by about 20%. This has been key to avoiding lifestyle inflation, since I don't really feel like I'm making more money.

I'm hoping to retire early far before my MRA of 57, but the TSP can just sit there and grow until I take a deferred retirement.

[captainawesome]

Active Duty here, currently maxing out contribution, but started late to the game. Didn't really consider TSP early on, maxed IRA and taxable investments (which did fairly well), and allowed me to purchase a house amongst other things.  Looking back, I wish I had contributed more, but I don't see myself lowering my contribution anytime soon since we have a fairly low cost of living and are able to max all retirement accounts. I'd love to count on the pension since I'm at 9 years right now, but who knows how that will go come promotion time.

[zephyr911]

Active Duty here, currently maxing out contribution, but started late to the game. Didn't really consider TSP early on, maxed IRA and taxable investments (which did fairly well), and allowed me to purchase a house amongst other things.  Looking back, I wish I had contributed more, but I don't see myself lowering my contribution anytime soon since we have a fairly low cost of living and are able to max all retirement accounts. I'd love to count on the pension since I'm at 9 years right now, but who knows how that will go come promotion time.

Captain Awesome indeed. Heh

[CheapskateWife]

I've got $31,000/year going in there from now

How are you pulling that off?  I thought max was 18K and 6K for catch up contributions after the age of 50.

[dude]

I've got $31,000/year going in there from now

How are you pulling that off?  I thought max was 18K and 6K for catch up contributions after the age of 50.

That's correct -- but with matching contributions of $7k, it amounts to $31k going into my account each year.

[Elliot]

I'm the least bracket, sadly. I'm under the average contribution years, though, and do contribute enough for full matching.

[CheapskateWife]

I've got $31,000/year going in there from now

How are you pulling that off?  I thought max was 18K and 6K for catch up contributions after the age of 50.

That's correct -- but with matching contributions of $7k, it amounts to $31k going into my account each year.

That is fantastic!   

[Hopper]

Just another GS peep busy climbing the totem pole here one maximum contribution at a time. I have been participating in the TSP for 8 years, and as of today, I have 220K.  Maybe next year I will cross over the >250K threshold if the market doesn't tank. 

Looking to ER within the next 10 years, but my spouse really would prefer I stick out my 22ish years left to full pension age.  I don't see that happening. 

[zephyr911]

Just another GS peep busy climbing the totem pole here one maximum contribution at a time. I have been participating in the TSP for 8 years, and as of today, I have 220K.  Maybe next year I will cross over the >250K threshold if the market doesn't tank. 

Looking to ER within the next 10 years, but my spouse really would prefer I stick out my 22ish years left to full pension age.  I don't see that happening.

I see a lot of comments like this, and every time, I count my lucky stars that DW supports whatever I think will make me happy, even if it changes constantly. (lately it's pretty consistent, and it doesn't involve working longer for a higher pension)

[CheapskateWife]

Just another GS peep busy climbing the totem pole here one maximum contribution at a time. I have been participating in the TSP for 8 years, and as of today, I have 220K.  Maybe next year I will cross over the >250K threshold if the market doesn't tank. 

Looking to ER within the next 10 years, but my spouse really would prefer I stick out my 22ish years left to full pension age.  I don't see that happening.

I see a lot of comments like this, and every time, I count my lucky stars that DW supports whatever I think will make me happy, even if it changes constantly. (lately it's pretty consistent, and it doesn't involve working longer for a higher pension)

I ran into a guy who claimed his wife "wouldn't let him" retire and all I could assume was that she liked spending his paychecks...of course maybe he had expensive tastes himself.  Either way, condolences Hopper.  My greatest asset is a husband who believes whole-heartedly that we can do this together and it will be awesome.

[Hopper]

Just another GS peep busy climbing the totem pole here one maximum contribution at a time. I have been participating in the TSP for 8 years, and as of today, I have 220K.  Maybe next year I will cross over the >250K threshold if the market doesn't tank. 

Looking to ER within the next 10 years, but my spouse really would prefer I stick out my 22ish years left to full pension age.  I don't see that happening.

I see a lot of comments like this, and every time, I count my lucky stars that DW supports whatever I think will make me happy, even if it changes constantly. (lately it's pretty consistent, and it doesn't involve working longer for a higher pension)

Fair enough!  I didn't realize how my comment was coming across.  Yes, my spouse would like me to get the full pension, but he is also supportive of my happiness, as I am of his.  I am sure we will come to a mutual decision when our numbers can generate our anticipated spending level.  We are not there yet so its all talk at this point.

[Villanelle]

We have relatively little.  I've been putting off a major reorg of our investments for quite some time (years).  I know I need to do it, but the paperwork headaches make me put it on the back burner again and again.  So our money continues to go to our Roths.  I actually need to sit down and make sure that more into TSP and less into the Roths makes the most sense.  DH is military, so there's no match. 

But I guess my larger point is that these stats don't give a complete picture, as many people may simply have more investments outside TSP.  So perhaps it isn't quite as dire a picture as those stats paint. 

[Travis]

13 years active duty and while I've been contributing since 2005, I have only $185k in it.  I didn't know what the hell I was doing until about 3 years ago and didn't start maxing it until around that time.  Like others I have other investment vehicles working for me too.

[Romag]

Retired military, started contributing when it became available, sitting at about $230K. My pension covers my expenses, so it's extra/cushion for now.

[MsPeacock]

Over 100k with 7 years in and contributing the maximum this year (finally  - thank you MMM).

[mdharmandm]

Unfortunately, I only have around 40K in mine after 6 yrs in the Navy (6.6k/year, why didn't I pull my head out of my ass earlier?). This will be the first year of maxing it out. I finally wised up and payed off all of my student loans and am now pushing to max out my investments. Should max out TSP this year in April. I spent way too much of my time in the default G fund.
I'm glad TSP is finally starting to embrace that it is the 21st century. I had no idea what my account password was (one of many things I completely dumped after OCS) and then had to wait for them to mail me my account login. Also looking forward to the military's contribution match in 2018 (although I guess I should only get about 2 years of the benefit).

[WildJager]

Also looking forward to the military's contribution match in 2018 (although I guess I should only get about 2 years of the benefit).

Ditto.  I'm about the same timeline as you.  Frustrating that I missed out on all of the matching that I wish had been there in the first place.  At least the future guys will get something out of it.

[JJ-]

I'm glad TSP is finally starting to embrace that it is the 21st century. I had no idea what my account password was (one of many things I completely dumped after OCS) and then had to wait for them to mail me my account login.

You can call them and they will give you the temporary password over the phone.

[abhe8]

I'm in, but it just been 10 months since I started my federal job. I managed to max by the end of 2015, even after starting in may. Hope to this year as well.

[mdharmandm]

I'm glad TSP is finally starting to embrace that it is the 21st century. I had no idea what my account password was (one of many things I completely dumped after OCS) and then had to wait for them to mail me my account login.

You can call them and they will give you the temporary password over the phone.

I'm sure there was another way, but at the time I probably had no idea what the security questions were or anything else I probably put down when I was sleepwalking through setting it up during OCS. It is all good to go now. I just spent too much time largely ignoring TSP. 

[mdharmandm]

Also looking forward to the military's contribution match in 2018 (although I guess I should only get about 2 years of the benefit).

Ditto.  I'm about the same timeline as you.  Frustrating that I missed out on all of the matching that I wish had been there in the first place.  At least the future guys will get something out of it.

Yeah, I am curious how they're going to treat people who are already in the military when the change happens. They are supposed to start matching at the 3 yr point (I also saw that they were trying to push this out to the 5 yr point). Does our time in service count and will we see matching contributions immediately?

[dude]

Just another GS peep busy climbing the totem pole here one maximum contribution at a time. I have been participating in the TSP for 8 years, and as of today, I have 220K.  Maybe next year I will cross over the >250K threshold if the market doesn't tank. 

Looking to ER within the next 10 years, but my spouse really would prefer I stick out my 22ish years left to full pension age.  I don't see that happening.

As I mentioned in another post, just be aware of what you're giving up!  Yes, you will vest after 10 years, but in a deferred annuity that you can't collect in full until age 62.  You can collect as early as 57, but it will be reduced by 5% for each year under 62.  Also, remember that the deferred annuity will NOT receive COLA adjustments until you actually start collecting.  None of this may matter if you reach FIRE long before you reach pension age, and that deferred annuity, ravaged by inflation as it will likely be, might just be unneeded gravy for you, but for sure know exactly what you're giving up before you toss it aside!

[One Noisy Cat]

Maybe $235,000 with 19 years contributing. Retired now but not drawing from it, C, S, I 75% rest G and F

I had 8 years active military so I bought into FERS with it. i once talked to plant manager who was USAF and she said she hadn't...she did retire a few years ago..mid 50s

I remember seeing one 40ish woman's statement and she had 75% G, 25% C which struck me as wrong but I kept my mouth shut

[dude]

But I guess my larger point is that these stats don't give a complete picture, as many people may simply have more investments outside TSP.  So perhaps it isn't quite as dire a picture as those stats paint.

Villanelle -- I don't read the stats as dire at all!  Hard to without more information anyway.  And in fact, I'd guess these numbers reflect higher balances than the general public (because the TSP is a very good investment vehicle with the lowest expense ratios of any funds in the world).*

*The math is pretty astounding.  TSP's funds average a .029% expense ratio ($0.29 for every $1,000 managed).  Compare that to an average 401k expense ratio of 1.5% (every fund in my wife's 401k comes with a 0.99% management fee, on top of the expense ratio of the particular fund(s) you choose, and some of those are greater than 1%!).

Let's assume a 7% average rate of return, and $5,000 contributed each year for 30 years.

At a 1.5% expense ratio, the effective rate of return is 5.5%, so the balance = $382,097

At a .029% expense ratio, the effective rate of return is 6.971%, so the balance = $502,505

That's a $120,000 difference!

[dude]

I remember seeing one 40ish woman's statement and she had 75% G, 25% C which struck me as wrong but I kept my mouth shut

Ouch.  A colleague in my office reported to me not long after I started at this duty station in '06 that he'd been persuaded to be 100% in the I Fund.  Here's a chart comparing the performance of the TSP Funds over 25, 10, 5, 3, and 1 year periods:

http://www.tspfolio.com/tspfunds

Note that the I Fund, with a Std Dev. of 18% has beat the ZERO RISK G Fund by a mere  0.05% over the past 25 years, and has trailed the C and S funds badly over all periods save for the past 12 months (when it has lost less than the S Fund).

[zephyr911]

As I mentioned in another post, just be aware of what you're giving up!  Yes, you will vest after 10 years, but in a deferred annuity that you can't collect in full until age 62.  You can collect as early as 57, but it will be reduced by 5% for each year under 62.  Also, remember that the deferred annuity will NOT receive COLA adjustments until you actually start collecting.  None of this may matter if you reach FIRE long before you reach pension age, and that deferred annuity, ravaged by inflation as it will likely be, might just be unneeded gravy for you, but for sure know exactly what you're giving up before you toss it aside!

Absolutely.
I've done the math many different ways myself, and that tiny deferred annuity will be icing on the FIRE cake by the time I get it, 18 years after I fully retire. But I didn't enter the system until age 33 and have always had other investments.
I just think it's sad that people start in their 20s and 30s and work for 30+ based on the assumption that they can't live without that pension. It's all about knowing your own needs and wants, and calculating the best way to get there.
I ran the numbers on buying back my ~6yrs active duty, and I couldn't justify it. The same $$ dumped into real estate in my 30s will add more to my income in my 40s than the buyback would at any age.

[irishbear99]

FED coming up on 17 years. I didn't do the best with my TSP starting out. Didn't contribute at all the first 3 years. Did okay the next 3, contributed 15%, but was very low salary so it wasn't much. Five years after that I only contributed 1% (money was tight, seemed like a reasonable idea at the time, kicking myself now). Bumped it up to 5% when I realized how stupid I was leaving free money on the table, and then spent the next few years upping my contributions gradually. I maxed it out last year for the first time, and will continue to do so going forward. I'm right around $120k, +/-. I'm glad I started early but wish I had contributed more.

[JJ-]

Absolutely.
I've done the math many different ways myself, and that tiny deferred annuity will be icing on the FIRE cake by the time I get it, 18 years after I fully retire. But I didn't enter the system until age 33 and have always had other investments.
I just think it's sad that people start in their 20s and 30s and work for 30+ based on the assumption that they can't live without that pension. It's all about knowing your own needs and wants, and calculating the best way to get there.
I ran the numbers on buying back my ~6yrs active duty, and I couldn't justify it. The same $$ dumped into real estate in my 30s will add more to my income in my 40s than the buyback would at any age.

As somebody who started in his 20s, one of the things that I currently struggle with is how our spending levels will change in regards to our plan to have children in the next few years. Based on our current spending levels and savings, the thought of staying until MRA is ridiculous. However, the fact that the guaranteed income is there "sure is nice" when I have no clue what our future spending may be like.

Another user posted an interesting idea to take unpaid leave later on the career. That certainly brings up another potentially viable option that I had not previously considered. This seems like it has quite a few cons (workload, performance, managers, etc) to keep the benefits of the pension and health insurance. Is this practice common?

[sol]

I'm doing fantastic, because my total years of service is still below their lowest balance bracket.  If I end up working >28 years, I will have failed at this game no matter what my balance is.

[Sailor Sam]

Also looking forward to the military's contribution match in 2018 (although I guess I should only get about 2 years of the benefit).

Ditto.  I'm about the same timeline as you.  Frustrating that I missed out on all of the matching that I wish had been there in the first place.  At least the future guys will get something out of it.

Yeah, I am curious how they're going to treat people who are already in the military when the change happens. They are supposed to start matching at the 3 yr point (I also saw that they were trying to push this out to the 5 yr point). Does our time in service count and will we see matching contributions immediately?

If you entered before 1-Jan-2006 you have to remain with the 20 year cliff vesting. If you joined 2006-2018, you get to choose which system to cleave to. I'm sure you'll do this already, but really look at the math, especially if you see yourself sticking the 20. I joined in 2007, so I could choose the new system, but the multiplier isn't as sweet and I would only have a decade of matching. I'll be sticking with the 20 year pension.

[zephyr911]

As somebody who started in his 20s, one of the things that I currently struggle with is how our spending levels will change in regards to our plan to have children in the next few years. Based on our current spending levels and savings, the thought of staying until MRA is ridiculous. However, the fact that the guaranteed income is there "sure is nice" when I have no clue what our future spending may be like.

The income is still guaranteed and can be calculated with mathematical certainty if you leave earlier. It's just lower. So, save more. :)
I know what you mean about unpredictable future expenses, and especially with our plan (unlike most MMM/FIRE types) to move to a higher COL area, I want to hedge my bets. For me, the main hedge is just keeping a small, flexible self-employment avenue that already earns almost $10k a year and can easily increase when I have the time (as I surely will, post-fed service).

Another user posted an interesting idea to take unpaid leave later on the career. That certainly brings up another potentially viable option that I had not previously considered. This seems like it has quite a few cons (workload, performance, managers, etc) to keep the benefits of the pension and health insurance. Is this practice common?

When I first got on this track, someone mentioned the possibility of doing unpaid leave as a trial run. Are you talking about essentially going PT without declaring it as such, or something else? There are a lot of different ways it might be used.

[sol]

If approved by their local management, federal employees can take up to six months of LWOP per year while still retaining the full year of service credit for the purpose of annuity calculations.  I'm theory, you could work ten years and six months, and still get 11% of your high three upon retirement.