Author Topic: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?  (Read 6292 times)

FIREin2018

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 553
  • I did decide to Fire in 2018 @Age47! :)
FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« on: September 24, 2019, 06:09:53 PM »
Age = 48, single, no kids

My bank acct has dipped below $10k.
it hasnt been below $10k this century. i'm actually stressed by this.
i have to sell some after tax funds in my brokerage acct in a few months and move the $ to savings acct.

How to mentally transition from saver to spender??

markbike528CBX

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2010
  • Location: the Everbrown part of the Evergreen State (WA)
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2019, 07:25:45 PM »
A) relax
B) post this as a MPP Mustachian People Problem, I'll bet someone else can relate.
C) I'm sure there is a thread about this in the Post-FIRE threads.
D) my number is 3k, but the same issue, see A) above.

BigMoneyJim

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 368
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Nomadic retiree in the Rockies
    • Jim's Personal Finance Blog
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2019, 08:14:22 PM »
I've been thinking about and planning the transition, and it's very scary.

I had a similar experience in 2005: I had spent 5 years aggressively paying down debt and avoiding some of the more lavish spending I did to get into debt. When I finally became debt-free I found myself worrying about spending and even how/where to save.

For a brief time it was more stressful to me to have 'extra' money because I had so many potentially wrong decisions I could make with it. When you're in debt up to your eyeballs there is little question what to do with income!

What helped me a lot was that I took control of my money future in 2000—as opposed to making money choices on the fly and being willing to pay more later for enjoyment now—and having participated in forums like this so I understood the choices.

A more specific thing I've found helpful very recently is to make a decision matrix. What is in my power to do, which of those am I potentially willing to do, and what is the outcome? Makes the decision a hell of a lot easier.

I also addressed worries independently. The self-FUD tends to multiply amorphously. I literally made a list of each fear to pin it down. Some fears were obviously silly and reactionary. Others I realized I had already planned for and knew what to do if the feared result came about.

Well heck, here is an actual such list I made 13 months ago and updated last night. The journey from then to now has been fraught but well-guided by this list. The subject is my desire to retire and the fears and/or good reasons blocking me from doing so at the time.

Quote
- Have to pay back $<redacted>k signing bonus if I quit before 12 months. Feb 12 was my start date, so the 15th, 22nd, or 28th are candidate last days, or maybe into March depending on how they count service months.

- Bonuses. I'm under the impression the yearly bonus is bigger. No idea if it's worth sticking around for. Basically I'd optimize by leaving just after a quarter or year ends, so early October, January, or April. Nah. Not a factor, although if I give 2 weeks' notice now I'd get into October

- Avoid any negative mark on my manager by sticking around at least a year, so see the first item's dates

- Fear - catch-all for income, portfolio survivability, market concerns, and similar I think I'm over the fear, and I know generally what I need to do if all things go poorly over the first 18 months.

- Uncertainty - catch-all for sequence (do this before that, e.g. medial checkups) I'm now convinced anything I need to do can be done more easily when not working. My only uncertainty is health insurance over time.

- Money - items that don't fit into the previous two such as wanting to do expensive home fix-ups Have that covered with an extra $<redacted>k over my 2x$<redacted>k/year cash pile

- Inertia / social pressure - This may become a problem, but maybe this doesn't even belong on the list Nope. It will be socially awkward to leave as usual, but inertia is no longer a blocker.

In this case, my fear of running out of money too quickly is assuaged by my cash stash and the knowledge that I can go back to work if I need to, which also covers health insurance worries. I can choose to maybe go back to work in 18-24 months (if market crashes right after I retire and I don't find a way to generate semi-passive income), or I can definitely keep working now. Choice seems much more straightforward!

When separated and analyzed one by one the fear is much easier to address than when vaguely wondering about worst case scenarios.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 08:17:49 PM by BigMoneyJim »

FrugalZony

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1577
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2019, 09:58:02 PM »
I hear you!! Been there, seen it, very much can relate!!

I have been Fired for 3 years and have seen this dip below a certain amount several times since I Fired.
I still find it hard that there's nothing coming into the bank account anymore, unless I transfer from Vanguard.
I liked it better, when it was the other way round and I could transfer to investments, but that also meant going to work ;)

My DH solves this by having his dividends deposited into his bank account and considers this his "salary".

I keep mine in the money market until I need to transfer.

I started a thread a while ago, about that mental hurdle, where several people have chimed in. Maybe this is helpful for you?
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/withdrawing-rebalancing-investments-oh-the-agony-and-analysis-paralysis-lol!/

Also, it has gotten a little bit better this year, but it's still hard.
All the best to you!



PhilB

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6965
  • Age: 59
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2019, 09:13:28 AM »
I deal with the problem by holding a bit more cash!  I will probably aim to have 1 to 2 years spending in cash that way I always know where next year's spending is coming from.  For me it's worth the drag on returns for the peace of mind it gives me and it takes the place of bonds in my portfolio.


soccerluvof4

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7168
  • Location: Artic Midwest
  • Retired at 50
    • My Journal
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2019, 02:53:48 PM »
I'm with @PhilB on this one. I keep more cash on hand and overtime you will adjust.

markbike528CBX

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2010
  • Location: the Everbrown part of the Evergreen State (WA)
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2019, 03:39:37 PM »
FrugalZony:  Thanks for the link.  I tried to find it (and others) but got tired after the first 3 pages of the Post-Fire subforum.

FrugalZony

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1577
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2019, 05:04:40 PM »
@soccerluvof4  and @PhilB   I do hold extra cash in Vanguard in VMMXX and a few 3+% CDs, so that's not an issue.

Pretty sure @FIREin2018?  has thought of this solution as well and is probably doing it already.

But seeing that balance go down and then having to transfer money (even if it's there, readily available and set aside just for that particular purpose) is still a tough mental hurdle for some of us. Good for you, that you find it easier to overcome, than we do ;)

@markbike528CBX you are welcome!! Wish I could say, it gets much easier. I had to do the same again this year and it was only marginally better;)
Hang in there @FIREin2018? !
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 05:08:57 PM by FrugalZony »

PhilB

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6965
  • Age: 59
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2019, 06:33:30 AM »
I guess I'm helped by the fact that we have such a complete jumble of accounts, most of them in an offset arrangement, that no individual balance is meaningful.  All I track is the overall cash and equivalent balance (which always remains a comfortingly high number) and the balance of the offset accounts which I try to keep near zero.  That takes away the stress of seeing an individual account get low.
I'm probably also helped by the fact that my cash balance is actually much higher than I expected 1 year into FIRE anyway thanks to some part time earnings!

FrugalZony

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1577
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2019, 10:46:08 AM »

I'm probably also helped by the fact that my cash balance is actually much higher than I expected 1 year into FIRE anyway thanks to some part time earnings!

Most likely this!
I rely on the stash and only the stash.
It does make a difference mentally, at least to me it does.

JoJo

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1853
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2019, 01:08:33 PM »
Hold some money in a higher earning online account and move a little over to your spending account as needed.

TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5344
  • Location: Texas
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2019, 08:34:08 PM »
Age = 48, single, no kids

My bank acct has dipped below $10k.
it hasnt been below $10k this century. i'm actually stressed by this.
i have to sell some after tax funds in my brokerage acct in a few months and move the $ to savings acct.

How to mentally transition from saver to spender??

As mentioned above: Have a monthly "salary" automatically transferred from your brokerage to your checking account based on your planned WR.

seattlecyclone

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7499
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Seattle, WA
    • My blog
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2019, 12:32:27 AM »
Age = 48, single, no kids

My bank acct has dipped below $10k.
it hasnt been below $10k this century. i'm actually stressed by this.
i have to sell some after tax funds in my brokerage acct in a few months and move the $ to savings acct.

How to mentally transition from saver to spender??


You were aware in your planning for this whole FIRE thing that selling some assets would be necessary at this point, right? Yes, this is different than what you're used to from your working and earning years. No, it's not different from the plan. Execute the plan.

Linea_Norway

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8715
  • Location: Norway
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2019, 01:04:58 PM »
I had the impression that it was indeed smart to have cash at hand, so that you don't need to sell stocks when the stock market is far down. We intend to do this next year when we FIRE.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 07:14:48 AM by Linea_Norway »

Omy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2062
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2019, 02:33:33 PM »
We have incoming rent from investment properties that refresh the bank account every month. And more money in CDs and savings accounts than we probably should have. If I were in your situation, I would probably set my dividends to auto deposit to my bank account to have some passive income.

I'm concerned I will have a similar reaction the first time I "have" to sell stocks. Just remember this is what you worked so hard for. And you can always get a PT job if it is overly concerning!

FIREin2018

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 553
  • I did decide to Fire in 2018 @Age47! :)
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2019, 04:25:45 PM »
I hear you!! Been there, seen it, very much can relate!!

I have been Fired for 3 years and have seen this dip below a certain amount several times since I Fired.
I still find it hard that there's nothing coming into the bank account anymore, unless I transfer from Vanguard.
I liked it better, when it was the other way round and I could transfer to investments, but that also meant going to work ;)

My DH solves this by having his dividends deposited into his bank account and considers this his "salary".

I keep mine in the money market until I need to transfer.

I started a thread a while ago, about that mental hurdle, where several people have chimed in. Maybe this is helpful for you?
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/withdrawing-rebalancing-investments-oh-the-agony-and-analysis-paralysis-lol!/

Also, it has gotten a little bit better this year, but it's still hard.
All the best to you!

yes... same about logging in multiple times to sell or xfer and just wind up starring at the screen till it times out.

my brokerage acct value has gone up and down but only due to market fluctuations. when the 2008 great recession hit and i lost 5 figures, i didnt worry about it because it was just a paper loss.

but xferring a measly 4 figures from brokerage to my bank acct is causing me grief. and i still havent done it.
it'll probably be one of those things where i wont do it till i'm down to 2 month's expenses in my bank acct and fear bouncing a check next month.
then after that first xfer, i predict future xfers will be easier.

and yes, i cant believe how ridiculously hard doing this simple task is for me...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 04:30:34 PM by FIREin2018 »

jeroly

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 818
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2019, 05:06:49 AM »
Age = 48, single, no kids

My bank acct has dipped below $10k.
it hasnt been below $10k this century. i'm actually stressed by this.
i have to sell some after tax funds in my brokerage acct in a few months and move the $ to savings acct.

How to mentally transition from saver to spender??

I have a similar problem in that I have anxiety about transferring $$$ out of my Vanguard accounts into my checking accounts - so much so that I run the risk of pushing the envelope in terms of not making the transfers soon enough and thus not having enough in checking so my rent check and other automatic payments will clear.

I get around this by setting up automatic monthly transfers into checking to cover my costs and I don't need to actually do anything so that the transfer happens.  I would move $$$ into post-tax MM funds to cover the upcoming year, at the time of my annual rebalancing, if/when necessary (currently I have about three years' worth of withdrawals in after-tax MM so not an issue).

TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5344
  • Location: Texas
Re: FIREd: How to deal with a dwindling bank acct?
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2019, 05:06:47 AM »
Three years in a money market account is a lot. I hope you're earning >2%, as there are various FDIC insured savings accounts which will hit that rate.

If you want to put in a little effort, you could get a better return with various bank account signup bonuses - they're frequently available from Chase, Wells Fargo, BBVA, Regions, etc.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!