Author Topic: FIRE vs. lifestyle design  (Read 6608 times)

Longwaytogo

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FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« on: March 25, 2015, 10:52:58 AM »
I'll start by saying long before MMM I was a fan of Tim Ferriss/4 hour work week. I liked the idea of thinking outside of the box and living life on your own terms.  Also don't want to sound at all complainypants or saying that you can't figure out how to ER in 10 years starting from zero. Something I have been giving a LOT of thought to is the concept of FIRE vs. lifestyle design/ mini- retirements/travel bouts.

Been thinking about the ideas/concepts in General terms. But my specific situation can be summed up as- 34 years old, father of 2 kids (aged 2 and 5), work construction part time but mostly a SAHD, wife is a teacher, live in HCOL area, have a shit ton of consumer debt, just crossed the "0" net worth milestone in November hoping to be around 20K by year end


For example in a couple years when my kids get into full time public school my options would be:

1. Return to full time running my own construction business. Probably entail working 49-50 weeks a year averaging 50+ hours a week. After a year or two of ramping up could probably pull in 70K plus.( made around 80K in my best year 2008) Potentially live below my means, avoid lifestyle inflation and push for retirement for me/wife at 45. Vacations would be the typical American long weekend or one week rushed trip.

2. Return to running my own business but sort of doing a 60/40 split between construction/SAHD. Try to rarely work more than 30-40 hours with mostly 20-30 hour weeks. Take off tons of random holidays/weeks and even months following my wife and kids school schedule to have lot's of family time as the kids grow up. May "only" make 30-40K going this route. Then shoot for retiring at 53 when my wife gets full pension and kids are out of or almost finishing college.  Could do tons of fun/long/slow/frugal trips. Maybe like every other Summer do a 6-7 week driving trip around US/Canada. Of course 53 is not early on these forums but would still beat the typical 65 or work forever American attitude.

I like Construction and my wife likes teaching so just not sure if 5-10 year difference in retirement is "worth" missing out on the now. Of course I don't want to throw my hands up and say "Fuck it I'll work forever anyway so I'll spend it all and finance a new truck/ camper/ motorcycle/ ski condo etc. etc."

Of course there are a million grey areas between 1 and 2 (some of which may even be outside of my circle of influence). I just feel like I want to have a conscious plan moving forward instead of letting life sort of just happen to me (like I did from 18-33). Of course the MMM tenements of living frugally, FU money, etc. all work in either manner but still be nice to sort of have a "plan".

Had I found MMM at 18 or came up with some awesome FIRE plan on my own at a young pre-kid age like MMM himself, RootofGood, Gocurrycracker etc. then I think being retired before starting a family would have been amazing. But once that ship has sailed I guess I'm searching for a palatable plan "B".

Sorry if this post is a bit disjointed or all over the place. Just tying to gauge if others have similar thoughts I guess.

Retire-Canada

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2015, 11:02:26 AM »
Sorry if this post is a bit disjointed or all over the place. Just tying to gauge if others have similar thoughts I guess.

I've taken lots of time off and worked at less than full tilt through a lot of my life. You never know how long you'll be here for so that makes sense.

I'm also going to downshift towards FIRE working part-time with less and less work as time goes on.

This has a few benefits:

- allows me to get time off early as my stash has several more years to grow before I need to withdraw from it
- keeps my foot in the game so to speak at work to deal with sequence of return risks should FIRE and a crash occurs
- lets me mentally adjust to FIRE over a number of years instead of going full steam to not working at all
- I think I may well find a certain mix of work and time off beyond which I don't actually want to work less [say working 4 - 6 months a year]

All of this means a smaller stach is needed to start working less and enjoying life more. The downside is I am not free to travel for say 36 months straight....having said that I'm not sure I want to.

Ultimately it's your life so whatever mix of work and play keeps you smiling is the right answer for you.

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Retire-Canada

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2015, 11:04:01 AM »

Had I found MMM at 18 or came up with some awesome FIRE plan on my own at a young pre-kid age like MMM himself, RootofGood, Gocurrycracker etc. then I think being retired before starting a family would have been amazing. But once that ship has sailed I guess I'm searching for a palatable plan "B".

Agreed that if I had understood what I do now in my 20's I'd be long FIREd.

That's cool. While I might have done stuff differently my life is pretty awesome as is!

-- Vik

2Birds1Stone

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2015, 12:14:54 PM »
This idea is becoming more and more interesting to me as well.

I am still in my 20's, however to reach full blown retirement would take about 15-17 years realistically.

I aim to do everything I can to improve my income over the next year or two, and downshift in 5-7 years. If I can create some passive income, do more consulting work, and maybe do an odd job or two a year such as coolworks.com I should be FI and able to live a completely different lifestyle than trying to make as much $$ as possible over the next 15-17 years.

I also have toyed with the idea of working say weekends and taking Monday to Friday off. Most people don't like working weekends. You can find great paying jobs in the service industry with a demand for weekend hours. If SO and I could work 10 hours a day on Saturdays/Sundays thats 40 hours between the two of us with 5 days off in between.

If we live somewhere within close distance to lots of outdoor activities etc this makes for a perfect way to enjoy hobbies, travel, etc while still earning $25-30k/yr.

With travel hacking and our current hobbies this seems like the most ideal thing to do!

Stachetastic

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2015, 12:45:46 PM »
I have been giving this a lot of thought lately, as well. I am 35 and DH is 40. We have two children, ages 6 and 3. I work full time and he is currently laid off from his career, but essentially working full time in construction for a friend right now. We have not even discussed FIRE in detail; my husband is not really interested in not having full time work in some capacity. I, on the other hand, am seriously considering going to part time once my husband is working again and has benefits through his employer. I've never been interested in being a SAHM, but I'm quickly realizing these years with the kids go by so quickly and we'll never get them back. Plus, I see my friends with older kids who are in so many activities after school, I just don't know how they all juggle such a busy schedule along with two full time working parents. (I suppose an easy solution to this problem would be to limit some of the activities.)

I just discovered MMM last year, but we have always leaned toward being frugal. While we are a long way off from FIRE, we have made some decisions along the way that have resulted in a pretty low COL, so I feel very thankful that we are able to have choices like these. Of course, if DH gets a much lower paying job than what he previously had, we will need to re-evaluate.

Wow, enough about me. I just wanted to confirm that you are not the only one weighing these decisions. I'm anxious to see what others have to say.

Mr Dumpster Stache

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2015, 01:51:14 PM »
I only have 14.5 months left of being in my 20s, and am unlikely to ever make anywhere close to 6 figures, so I'm in the same boat of true FI being a long way off. My current plan is to get our "starter" home paid off (about 10 years from now) and then quit working full time. My kids will then be 12 and 10, which IMO is a fantastic time of life to have Dad available for adventures and life stuff. We plan on homeschooling, and this will also work with the fact that my wife is great with pre and elementary school kids, and I am pretty awesome with jr and high schoolers.

I currently work a job where I am gone ALL day Fri-Sun, and have Mon-Thurs off. This is nice for side work or just being home with the kids.

When the little ones are gone and not little any more, we can reevaluate and decide if we want to go back to working full time again to reach true FI, keep working part time, sell the house and move to the beach, start a business, whatever looks good at the time.

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2015, 02:07:41 PM »
We have chosen lifestyle while our kids are young. We have 2 kids age 5 and 7. I work 20hrs/week mon/tue/wed. DH work is seasonal but when he is working he works 32 hours- wed/thurs/sat/sun, meaning one of us is always home with the kids when they are home. It means FI is a much longer term goal but we are slowly ticking away at it, hoping to have mortgage paid off in 5 years.

I just figure I will never get these years with my kids back again so why not enjoy them. 

steveo

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2015, 03:50:10 PM »
I view FIRE as lifestyle design in practice. I'm not a big fan of Tim Ferris as I don't believe that his ideas are robust. I like the frugal approach to lifestyle design because I think its robust.

In stating that I am not sure exactly how I want to progress towards spending less time at work and more time doing more of what I want to do. At the moment its full time work and I think it will remain that way until I get to the stage where things are really on-track. At the moment we have a mortgage and 3 young kids. I think we are at our peak spending and saving phases although the saving may increase over the next couple of years. I think once I get closer to being FI then I may choose to work part time or take say 8 weeks holidays per year or possibly both. Alternatively do I just keep going and then quit completely. I'm not really sure just now.

Miss Prim

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2015, 04:23:30 PM »
I've gone back and forth between full-time and part-time my whole career, depending on how much my husband was making at the time.  The funny thing is, we have made about the same amount of money per year for the last 10 years, but with no mortgage going out and rental income coming in, we haven't noticed any difference in our lifestyle. If anything, we are doing more travelling now than we have done in awhile!  We just try to do it as cheaply as possible.

I vote for the lifestyle design.  If you like your jobs like we always did, it makes for a nice balance in life.  We are not retiring early (61 and 65), but we also never really worked our butts off either!  We just lived frugally and saved a lot.  I am retiring this year and frankly, I am a little worried about what I will do with myself, because I only work part-time now and have a lot of free time.  I am going to have to develop some kind of a schedule for myself so I don't sit on the computer all day!

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use2betrix

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2015, 07:34:11 PM »
Pff. I unfortunately understand the consumerism lifestyle. I am 26 and last year was my 3rd year making over 100k, with around 150k the last two years. I have a negative net worth. I did manage to pay off over 40k in student loans, about 20k in investment accounts, but still have truck and trailer debt (I live in my 5th wheel that I travel in for work full time)

I started saving very hard the last 12 months and have made a total 180. I am definitely seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

Like you, I am trying to decide what I want for the future. I have spent years at 50, 60, 70 hr weeks. It's either find something for 40, or continue doing contract work and work like 60 hrs a week 4 months of the year and take the other 8 months off. I could make around 60k in those 4 months and take the rest off. I would potentially have to travel and be away from my family much of that time as well, depending where I ended up wanting to live.

Right now, the key is just getting ahead and increasing net worth. Nothing can happen until then. I see another 6-7 years of 50 hrs a week, maybe a month or two off when I'm debt free to travel before having kids. However I'd like my retirement accounts maxed to the point I can stop contributing and just let them grow enough that they will support me in retirement. One less thing to worry about saving for when I want to cut back my hours.

Longwaytogo

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2015, 08:17:21 PM »
Quote
Ultimately it's your life so whatever mix of work and play keeps you smiling is the right answer for you.

For sure, can't stand people telling someone else what to do. Certainly was not looking for votes for #1 vs #2 just more curious if others go through similar thought processes.

Quote
While I might have done stuff differently my life is pretty awesome as is!

Yes, always have to remind myself of this. Outside of my financial drama (self imposed) the rest of my life is great.   Everything is Awesome!!

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I also have toyed with the idea of working say weekends and taking Monday to Friday off. Most people don't like working weekends. You can find great paying jobs in the service industry with a demand for weekend hours. If SO and I could work 10 hours a day on Saturdays/Sundays thats 40 hours between the two of us with 5 days off in between.

Sounds like a fun plan to me, side benefit of cheaper tourist times and less crowds. Check out the ole MMM post " A peak life is lived off Peak" if you haven't already.

Quote
I just figure I will never get these years with my kids back again so why not enjoy them.

No doubt, staying home with my kids and niece/nephew is one of the best decisions I've ever made.  I'm about 2.5 years in of my 5 year plan, it's been super fun and rewarding. With the side benefit of making my wife's life less stressful with me handling a larger share of household duties and her not having to do day care pick ups and drop offs.


Thanks for responding folks, makes me feel a little less crazy.

Genevieve

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2015, 08:34:54 PM »
I am also a big fan of the 4 hour work week philosophy. Taking a break might push off the financial independence date, but you don't need to get to completely to FI to have more freedom and more control of your time. To me, that's what this whole thing is really about, not just about reaching a certain $$$ number.

I've taken a ~8 month break to work on a business, travel, and relax. I'm searching for a full time job right now so I can go back and make good money. Since I've tested out my retirement dream, I know now more about how I actually want to spend my time when I'm FIRE'd. I've also tested out a dream or too. That's a very valuable experience.

If your wife is on board with the whole plan, I say go for it. It'd be nice to have at least some amount of FU money to have more choices before downshifting too much.

arebelspy

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2015, 09:14:02 PM »
"A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his education and his recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing, and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. To himself, he always appears to be doing both." - Lawrence Pearsall Jacks

4HWW and MMM go hand in hand.  Design your life, act as if you were FI, and draw no distinction.  I wish you insight and strength, LWTG.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

handsnhearts

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2015, 10:45:21 PM »
I'm in a very similar boat.  (Love Tim Ferriss BTW).  No consumer debt but huge student loans, small child at home, DH and I both working.  trying to find the balance between planning for the future, FI, and enjoying the precious life we have now.  Ive been writing about this in my journal...

shanghaiMMM

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2015, 10:50:36 PM »
"A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his education and his recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing, and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. To himself, he always appears to be doing both." - Lawrence Pearsall Jacks

4HWW and MMM go hand in hand.  Design your life, act as if you were FI, and draw no distinction.  I wish you insight and strength, LWTG.


Is that quote from a specific book? If so, I need to read it.

If not, it's just a downright awesome quote. Thanks for sharing it!

Miss Prim

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2015, 04:01:45 AM »
Quote
For sure, can't stand people telling someone else what to do. Certainly was not looking for votes for #1 vs #2 just more curious if others go through similar thought processes.

Sorry, I was the one who voted!  My mistake.  Took some time out of my day to try to help out, but I guess I should have not bothered!

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lakemom

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2015, 06:03:33 AM »
Just food for thought.....
Depending on what area of construction you prefer/are competent (or better) at, opening a dependable "handyman" service is a great way to have a decent income and set your own hours/work weeks.  In my small town there is no one who likes to come in and do the little jobs (refinish one floor, trim out 2 windows, troubleshoot/fix one light/switch) and I have a number of friends who will call on me and/or dh to come and help out/advise them on these little chores.  No overhead and a fairly steady stream of income would work nicely for you based on your OP.  Even something like tiling a bathroom ($700 job for labor and a few supplies. I'd already purchased tile but decided the job was too much for me to handle and dh didn't have time) where I had two tile guys say they'd show up and called the day of to put me off (first time for 3 weeks, second time for 2 MONTHS) I found a semi-retire tile guy who showed up/ worked half days and got the job done for 1/2 what the other two had quoted me.  I've since given his contact info to 3 other people (in the year since he finished my tile).

Edited for typos!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 06:05:36 AM by lakemom »

Longwaytogo

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2015, 07:34:42 AM »
"A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his education and his recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing, and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. To himself, he always appears to be doing both." - Lawrence Pearsall Jacks

4HWW and MMM go hand in hand.  Design your life, act as if you were FI, and draw no distinction.  I wish you insight and strength, LWTG.

Awesome quote!! Attempt to embody this myself though surely not as zen like as the Master he describes. Right now when I'm out with my kids I often get asked "Daddy, daughter day?" as if it's a special occasion, to which I reply "every day is Daddy Daughter day" but I try to keep the enthusiasm high knowing how lucky I am to spend this time with my kids. Along the same vein I enjoy home improvement and especially woodworking, just need to take the joy I get working on my own house or helping friends with projects to my paying customers.

I've been trying to design my life the last couple years and have certainly got a lot of insight from these and other forums, convos with my wife and others in real life. I guess now the strength to just keep at it is what I need to develop. Thanks for the wise words!

Quote
For sure, can't stand people telling someone else what to do. Certainly was not looking for votes for #1 vs #2 just more curious if others go through similar thought processes.

Sorry, I was the one who voted!  My mistake.  Took some time out of my day to try to help out, but I guess I should have not bothered!

                                                               Miss Prim


Sorry? Was just trying to feel out if others thought about this stuff and used my situation as more of an example I guess. But I see where it reads a bit more like a question.

Just food for thought.....
Depending on what area of construction you prefer/are competent (or better) at, opening a dependable "handyman" service is a great way to have a decent income and set your own hours/work weeks.  In my small town there is no one who likes to come in and do the little jobs (refinish one floor, trim out 2 windows, troubleshoot/fix one light/switch) and I have a number of friends who will call on me and/or dh to come and help out/advise them on these little chores.  No overhead and a fairly steady stream of income would work nicely for you based on your OP.  Even something like tiling a bathroom ($700 job for labor and a few supplies. I'd already purchased tile but decided the job was too much for me to handle and dh didn't have time) where I had two tile guys say they'd show up and called the day of to put me off (first time for 3 weeks, second time for 2 MONTHS) I found a semi-retire tile guy who showed up/ worked half days and got the job done for 1/2 what the other two had quoted me.  I've since given his contact info to 3 other people (in the year since he finished my tile).

Edited for typos!

I've looked into this in the past, it seems like a tough thing to do legally. If you kind of do the under the table par time Handyman thing you could maybe make some money. But to be licensed, insured, tax paying etc. you would need to charge north of $75 an hour and have a 4 hour minimum. Tough to get people to agree to that and then everyone wants to hold you to your estimate, like if you say it will take 4 hours and it takes 6 they are pissed. I have found better luck just saying X project is $500 and they can take it or leave and how long it takes is up to me. Plus for small projects you end up spending/wasting a ton of time driving around doing estimates. No one wanting to do these small jobs is a common problem, but the reason is becasue they are hard to do profitably.

I still work with my Dad who is fully licensed, insured, permitted work etc. So we have a certain overhead we have to cover for all those expense, vehicle maintenance, etc.  So far we have found a good balance as he's kind of winding down in his career as well so puts up with me only working weekends and a lot of part time etc.  I've found pretty good luck doing  a lot of bathroom remodels. Takes 2 weeks and then you can leave a week in between before you start the next one or something like that. Plus they are small spaces to work in so a 1-2 man crew is all you need. Although tomorrow I'm starting a decent sized ($27K) project for a past client that I'm really excited about.

The_path_less_taken

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2015, 06:27:11 AM »
I never viewed retirement as an end game.

I made enough money to 'coast' for a while, travel, do whatever...then made more money/invested/had rental property.

Then like an idiot sold most of the rental property so now working to start the cycle again. Although primarily for the healthcare thanks to Obamacare.

But if I had young children I would try and maximize the at home time because it's so fleeting, getting to raise children.

YMMV is pretty much how I view most things: only from inside of your head does it all click/make sense.

NorCal

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2015, 08:40:00 AM »
Every person has a different balance they want to have.  For those who haven't found that balance, there's nearly a universal desire to be able to work less but to maintain financial security.

Some people want to sit on the golf course all day.

Others (like my dad) "retired", but are actually working more than they did pre-retirement just because they're doing something they love.  He still considers himself retired, but easily works 40+ hours per week.

My personal goal is to get to the point where I don't have to work.  Yet I'd love to be an independent consultant, working on projects that I choose to work on.

My wife is a lawyer.  She loves her work and hates her job.  Given a choice, she would do exactly what she does now, but with the ability to choose her clients.




Write Thyme

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2015, 01:43:30 PM »
I can relate. My husband and I are low earners so we aren't going to be able to retire super early. We have a toddler we both want to enjoy more. I'm trying to envision what I want out of life (or even thinking of what I'd do if I were FIRE) and incorporating those things into my life now.

We both dislike our jobs and wish to spend more time together as a family. My husband and I work different shifts so we barely see each other. That's no way to live so I'm working on fixing that.


Emilyngh

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2015, 06:20:24 PM »
My husband and I live a semi-retired life now (he is FT SAHD and I don't work many hours).   Because of this we're at least 10 yrs away from FI, but have awesome lives now.   And I totally think it's worth it.   My big suggestion is that side gigs, if used efficiently, can allow you to keep a low stress base-work schedule, significantly add to the stache, but allow one to maintain flexibility and autonomy.

So, for example, I have a super autonomous and flexible schedule that requires minimal working hours for my regular job, but the downside is that I only make about $50k from this regular employment.   To supplement this, I have been able to make about an additional $10k this year by picking up side work.   This side work is mostly output-based, does not require many additional hours, and I can choose to pick up more or less based on what's going on, but it goes straight into our 401k (meaning that it is super helpful for the stache).  At first, I was concerned about finding side-gigs (esp that I enjoy), but since I started trying, I find that it's not hard at all and they are pretty much falling in my lap.   Most of my side-gigs are related to my regular career-related expertise, but last year I also made $2k, tax-free, just from credit card churning alone (as an example of something almost anyone can do).

I find having a super relaxed $50k job and picking up $10k of side-work when I want, works much better than having a $60k job that is less flexible.

Similarly, dh is a FT SAHD.   When DD goes to school FT, he has a plan for picking up his own side work.   This way we can build our stache, but retain flexibility (eg., don't have to worry about him getting time off to plan trips, one of the two of us will be at home with her after school each day, but we should still be mad-staching between our side-gigs).

So, to OP: my suggestion is to perhaps choose the more relaxed regular work schedule and to look for sidework to only do when you want and it's not a burden, but that helps to cut your FI time.   Eg., you mentioned your wife is a teacher.   Could she grade for IB during the summer/over xmas break?   If she has a Master's, is she in a field that she could pickup any CC teaching, online college teaching, or even tutoring?   If you both can keep the time spent at your regular day jobs to few enough hours and efficient enough so that you could each pick up a little side work, perhaps you can keep high flexibility and autonomy, while still racing towards FI.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 06:31:28 PM by Emilyngh »

Landlord2015

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2015, 05:05:16 AM »
"A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his education and his recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing, and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. To himself, he always appears to be doing both." - Lawrence Pearsall Jacks

4HWW and MMM go hand in hand.  Design your life, act as if you were FI, and draw no distinction.  I wish you insight and strength, LWTG.
A master of living, but ironically I could never see myself following my own education and start an IT company. Yes I have heard about success, but one man IT company:s that make a success are very rare. In the IT field the workers want good salary, work benefits: sport support, healthcare...

Ok I also worked once for an Indian IT company. In India companies no such thing as work benefits exist! However the discussion went like IE(India Employer) M(Me)
IE: Work benefits sorry we don't have none! You will not get any work benefits...
M: Ok, but you do realize I am used to work for other companies that give sport economical support? I also think a healthy worker is good for the workplace sir.
IE: I see your point, but this is company policy and no changes will be made. However in your case you want more money? No problem we pay your more salary! In India we do NOT have equal salaries!
M: Ok sir, sounds good.

Anyway what I am good at?
I have studied the law of my country regarding renting laws. I always meet my rental applicants myself and create the contracts...

You see in my country sure you can ask a firm to do it, but in the capitol area where I rent they charge you like 1000 euro if they get a renter for you.

Sure I have had shady applicants(that I say no to) and a prostitute that said she only wants to rent if she can pay the rent with her services to me.. (Prostitution is legal in my country Finland Europe).
I answered her diplomatically that she looks very beautiful(true), but unfortunately I want the rent in cash...

You can not be a coward if you deal with renters as I do and I have done my country's mandatory(must do) military service.

Right now they talk about politics... the right wing capitalist want some very BIG fundamental changes to my country. If they get their will done there will be big changes in Finland.

However many oppose these changes and you can flip a coin I don't know if there will be changes remains to be seen and if they come then law changes happens at the beginning of a year in my country so year 2016.

Some of my friends are scared of a more capitalist society, but I think it is good and bad so neutral... anyway this is my spirits about that:
Eminem - Not Afraid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5-yKhDd64s

Therefore in year 2016 if there are an environment that supports more to start a business I might become an entrepreneur OR I buy one more investment apartment... remains to be seen. Heck even if the laws changes don't come maybe I do it remains to be seen.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 05:14:29 AM by Landlord2015 »

Landlord2015

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2015, 07:22:02 PM »
Election in my country is later during this month... however if they make law changes those law changes will become valid 2016. I don't like the idea so much if this become much more capitalist then I need to take more methods to earn money.

On top of that I got information earlier this week that my 1986 apartment will get expensive repairs that cost me roughly 6400 euro at end of 2016... but I can also choose to pay that over time 35 euro/month... and decide later to pay all of it at once if interest rise for the house company loan.

HappyMargo

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2015, 08:28:20 PM »

I also have toyed with the idea of working say weekends and taking Monday to Friday off. Most people don't like working weekends. You can find great paying jobs in the service industry with a demand for weekend hours. If SO and I could work 10 hours a day on Saturdays/Sundays thats 40 hours between the two of us with 5 days off in between.


What a great idea! 
If my DH weren't tied to the Monday- Friday work week, I'd jump on this plan! (The extra free-time is a terrific bonus to the weekend shift differential pay.  Both sound awesome to me!)


HappyMargo

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Re: FIRE vs. lifestyle design
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2015, 08:41:49 PM »
I'm so glad you asked this question.  I've been toiling over these decisions myself lately too.  And there's been some good suggestions so far.

In my case, DH has his own business that he's going to carry on with for at least another 10-14 years. 
My job, although it is wonderful & I enjoy it, only offers 2 weeks vacation each year. TWO WEEKS!
Just awful for DINKs that enjoy traveling....  So after crunching the numbers (obsessively) I've made my plan.

I'll work 2 more years full-time, continue stuffing the stash with savings & hit my target number.  Then down-shift to part-time Per Diem work.  I'll only take shifts I want to work (2-3 per week or ramp up for extra $ during the busy season), enjoy more free-time all year long & have the freedom to travel with DH while we're still young/healthy. 

Not sure if that's called semi-retirement or lifestyle design, but it sounds awesome to me!
And I've already started my count down app for that happy day!
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 08:44:05 PM by HappyMargo »