Author Topic: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation  (Read 1785 times)

ALLTHAT

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FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« on: April 21, 2022, 09:22:39 AM »
Hello everyone, I am very new to FIRE movement like starting this year. I Wished I know about this 20 – 30 years ago. I figure to put this all out there to get feedback and discussions that could help us plan better.

 I am 50 now and would like to retire in 5 years. I am looking for honest feedback and ideas what I should do from other perspectives. and maybe better ideas that make sense. Let me expand on my financial standings first. I work for one of the major tech companies everyone in the world knows I could work until 65 if I like, but I am getting burned out on the IT world.  Right now, still listening to books, blocks, videos and forums. Got a lot to learn still of course. We don’t have a financial advisor, CPS etc. everything has been on our own.

•   My salary = $150k + bonuses = around 18k+ a year
•   Spouse salary = $140k +$522 monthly check - other
•   Savings – $75k
•   Personal Stocks – $550k + 4-5k company stocks purchase every 3 months. – from employee purchase plan and bonuses. Great growth, and around 10k+ dividends a year.
o   98% in one stock that has made me great wealth.
•   Company pension 1k / month if I pull from eligibility date.
•   401ks & ROTH – $850k that can be pulled in 10 years… should be a lot higher in value then…all in index funds.
•   SSA will be about $3344 at age 67. Or $4192 at 70.
•   Own three vehicles outright.
•   Mortgage is around 2100 a month, owning $219k for another 195 payments. This is our highest bill and would not be paid off until 2039… so that is a very long time.
•   We own $19k on a TSP loan that has a monthly payment coming straight out of my spouse’s check.
•   We own about $6800 on a fence going up in a short time. But we will need to continue replacing part of our fence over time until we complete the whole fence.
•   We budget everything and always have over 25 years now.  We have fund buckets for everything. Food, pet care, entertainment, utilities, subscriptions, allowance, debt, etc. these funds are a collection of what we budget money over each paycheck that we put money in. and we pay whatever out of these buckets. Some of these buckets are exact such as Netflix, while others are variable expense like power. One month it may be less than what we budget for but months later it might be well over hat we budgeted for, and we are okay because we budgeted and have excess to cover the bill.
Based on the budge it looks like we are 80% out 20% in. based on our spreadsheet budget we are currently using. I purchased Quicken to see if it would help track spending a little better visually as well.
I have created a dividends spreadsheet that I am still working on to figure and compare index funds, stocks, etc. see what dividends and growth. I am trying to make sense what and were to place my money in if anything.
I have had a thought about paying off my house by cashing out my stocks which would leave me around 200k after I paid the house off and if I spend another 19k for my spouse’s TSP loan would. But then I would need to figure out how to recover that 350k or so back. This would free up 2k a month and increase my spouses check to 500. I am not liking this option at even more I look at it. And yet I do not like the fact that I am spending 2k a month just on mortgage and not anything else that we need to spend on to maintain the house.
We have discussions on purging a lot of stuff we don’t need or use around our home, and maybe move into an RV to save a little more money. But doing so we don’t want to get rid of everything in our home. We have some nice things and at some point, do want a home in another state that is tax friendly to retirees. To do this we would need an RV, Truck to pull the RV and storage to store the stuff we cannot pull along with us. Staying at an RV park for years would save money on some fronts, but it is an extreme.
Originally, I was looking to retire in 5 years or so, my spouse would retire in 10 years, so that she can carry her medical benefits with us after my spouse retires. Mine would stop once I leave the company, which is a lot better than my spouse’s benefits. To supplement my paycheck once I retire would come from monthly dividends such as qyld etc.
We have done the math as well, and if I retired, we could live on my spouse’s income only, but it would be tight.
I am looking at buying a van and converting it to an RV to tour the US an beyond in 5 years. I am looking at buying a van in 4 yours at the latest. I would also be looking for a home base location as well.
So to recap, what are options that can be recommended, thoughts on a better things we could do to get Fi quicker. What are things that we are not thinking about and if there are resources we should be looking at as well. Basically, looking for recommendations and ideas.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 12:05:32 PM by ALLTHAT »

HPstache

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2022, 09:28:17 AM »
What is your monthly / yearly spending and what is the breakdown?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 09:32:01 AM by v8rx7guy »

ixtap

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2022, 09:51:16 AM »
What is your monthly / yearly spending and what is the breakdown?

This is the key. How do your carefully tracked expenses compare to your portfolio and projected income (pensions, SS, whatever the spousal "other" is if it going to continue indefinitely).

Glenstache

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2022, 10:04:26 AM »
cfiresim.com is your friend. You can put all your numbers in and do some scenario testing.

LifeHappens

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2022, 10:21:58 AM »
•   Personal Stocks – $550k + 4-5k company stocks purchase every 3 months. – from employee purchase plan and bonuses. Great growth, and around 10k+ dividends a year.
o   98% in one stock that has made me great wealth.
I'm glad this has worked out so well for you, but now it's time to diversify. JL Collins' Stock Series is highly recommended as a start:
https://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/

ALLTHAT

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2022, 10:37:34 AM »
What is your monthly / yearly spending and what is the breakdown?
based on our budget spreadsheet we are spending per each of our pay checks 2k. I get paid 24 time a year, my spouse 26 times a year. (50 total)
about 100k going out (bills/allowances/funds) a year and 24k saved/ error fund for unaccounted items.

ALLTHAT

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2022, 10:47:17 AM »
What is your monthly / yearly spending and what is the breakdown?

This is the key. How do your carefully tracked expenses compare to your portfolio and projected income (pensions, SS, whatever the spousal "other" is if it going to continue indefinitely).

honesty never really tracked it carefully. I've watched it grow for my portfolio, set and forget it mode. Spouse will have about the same SS amount come 65/70. but not a pension. There is also a 401k ... not 100% sure at the moment how much is in there, last, I looked it was over 200k.

We always tracked everything based off "funds" we shave set up for everything. like electricity we budget 300 a month, but a bill might be 200 that month. we dd and subtract each month based on the little "fund"/account for that bill/outgoing $. just how we covered ourselves in case the power bill one month was 500 on month we would know over time that we have an accumulating fund just for the power. At the end of the year, we take what we have left over and put it either towards something or in savings etc. hopefully that helps, pretty simple and easy for us.

ALLTHAT

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2022, 10:48:33 AM »
cfiresim.com is your friend. You can put all your numbers in and do some scenario testing.

Cool beans, I will check this out. appears to be a little overwhelming at first. i will try this
thank you.

ALLTHAT

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2022, 10:49:21 AM »
•   Personal Stocks – $550k + 4-5k company stocks purchase every 3 months. – from employee purchase plan and bonuses. Great growth, and around 10k+ dividends a year.
o   98% in one stock that has made me great wealth.
I'm glad this has worked out so well for you, but now it's time to diversify. JL Collins' Stock Series is highly recommended as a start:
https://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/
thank you, I will check this out now. lots to read here.

ixtap

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2022, 11:26:28 AM »
What is your monthly / yearly spending and what is the breakdown?

This is the key. How do your carefully tracked expenses compare to your portfolio and projected income (pensions, SS, whatever the spousal "other" is if it going to continue indefinitely).

honesty never really tracked it carefully. I've watched it grow for my portfolio, set and forget it mode. Spouse will have about the same SS amount come 65/70. but not a pension. There is also a 401k ... not 100% sure at the moment how much is in there, last, I looked it was over 200k.

We always tracked everything based off "funds" we shave set up for everything. like electricity we budget 300 a month, but a bill might be 200 that month. we dd and subtract each month based on the little "fund"/account for that bill/outgoing $. just how we covered ourselves in case the power bill one month was 500 on month we would know over time that we have an accumulating fund just for the power. At the end of the year, we take what we have left over and put it either towards something or in savings etc. hopefully that helps, pretty simple and easy for us.

I am having trouble reconciling "we budget carefully and have for 25 years" and "we don't know how much we spend."

ALLTHAT

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2022, 12:01:32 PM »


I am having trouble reconciling "we budget carefully and have for 25 years" and "we don't know how much we spend."
[/quote]

hard to really explain other than showing how we budget, on what we spend honestly we have not really tracked in details until now, so that answer is really unknown.

TomTX

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2022, 12:35:10 PM »
cfiresim.com is your friend. You can put all your numbers in and do some scenario testing.

My personal preference is "Rich, Broke or Dead" - that rising grey section puts things in perspective.

https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/

ChpBstrd

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2022, 12:42:15 PM »
Assuming the personal stocks and 401k/Roth categories do not overlap, my math says you have at least $1.5M in liquid assets, PLUS a pension starting at an undefined time, PLUS Social Security income starting in 20y. You could retire safely right now if you were willing to reduce spending to about $55k/year, maybe $60k, and maybe higher than that depending on what cfiresim says.

Here's how:

1) First, graciously accept this facepunch: If you were willing to shell out $6,800 for a fence, you're either a rancher with 2,000 acres or someone living in a very fancy neighborhood with pressures for conspicuous consumption. Think about that financial mistake and the social pressures that led you to make it. Think about how you'd still have that money if you lived elsewhere, among different people more accepting of chain-link. Think about how you'd be retired now if you didn't have to treat your money this way, and that by extension, how you are working now and will be working years from now for things like that fence. How many years of your life is it worth doing this specific sort of thing? How is this fence a metaphor for how you are spending your remaining time on this earth?

2) Now the left hook: Sell one of the 3 cars. You are only 2 people. Why optionally pay for an entire extra car's depreciation, maintenance, insurance, etc? It may only cost you $2500/year to own that beater or "fun" car, but to spend that way in retirement you'll need at least 25X that amount = $62,500. How many months of hard work does that third car represent as it sits there 99% of the time?

3) Can you work remotely? Ask. Eliminate your commuting costs and risks if possible and open up geo-arbitrage opportunities.

4) Instead of spending hours on error-prone manual spreadsheets, use Mint.com to track your spending, income, and assets. You need to have these numbers at your fingertips at all times and you have better things to do than manual personal accounting. 

5) Build a budget that strictly totals $55-60k. Include savings in the budget for things like vehicle repair/replacement, a new roof, a new HVAC, new fridge, bath remod someday, travel, etc. Spend six months living on that amount. Did you succeed or fail, and why? What is your FIRE number, and why does it have to be so high? Keep trying until you make it.

6) Sell your fancy home and buy a modest house for $200k in a tax-friendly Low Cost Of Living (LCOL) state that has expanded Medicaid per the ACA. Consider paying cash for this home. Get rid of most of your "nice" things, as there are nice things for sale in the marketplace all day every day. There's never any need to hold an expensive inventory of stuff you don't need, just because it's "nice". Look for a small home with accessible bathrooms and not a lot of deferred maintenance. I do not recommend the RV life of renting a parking spot and paying out the nose for depreciation (instead of building equity) while puttering back and forth to the grocery store in a massive, empty truck that has the highest operating cost of anything this side of construction equipment.

7) Find something to retire to. Will you travel? Will you contribute to society? Will you pursue pure hedonism? Will you read all the literature you never had time for? Will you reconnect with the kids? Make art or music? Make genuine friends instead of just work friends and country club status jockeys? Until you have a purpose, you might as well stay at work (I collect stock market returns from your megacorp, so thanks for your service) :)).

8) To retire early or not is a choice. You have 2 major risks that you can address:
     a) Health. Get a checkup, order some diagnostic labs, stop eating the deadly Standard American Diet, and start exercising.
     b) Divorce. Start seeing a counselor even if you don't think you need one. Surface any differences in values as you both navigate a shift in lifestyle and values. The counselor might be free while you have insurance through work. Don't wait for the conflict to happen. Manage it.

10SNE1

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2022, 12:51:31 PM »
Welcome, ALLTHAT. The others who said you need to list your expenses are correct. Maybe consider going to the "Case Study" forum and listing everything. That way you can get specific recommendations. Your expenses are likely way too much and need to be cut back drastically. Food budget is a big one - eliminate the majority of eating out/takeout and eat at home most of the time. Subscriptions can probably be cancelled even if they seem like small expenses, and new clothing and unnecessary Amazon purchases can probably be cut, etc etc. We won't know for sure what else needs cut unless the expenses are all laid out.

Don't do the extreme RV thing. I would recommend definitely downsizing, though, but I don't know what kind of current living situation you have other than a mortgage balance...  Do purge a lot of stuff and use the money to pay off the mortgage. Use 100% of your bonuses to help pay off the mortgage or save more for retirement. You don't want to run into surprise tax bills by cashing out stocks. Keep those for retirement purposes.

The good news is that your incomes are combined over 300K!! That is incredible, and you will be able to achieve your goal. The bad news is that you will have to make huge lifestyle changes, but you can do it with that income - you really can if you are serious about it.

Glenstache

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2022, 01:16:27 PM »
Well done @ChpBstrd

ALLTHAT

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2022, 01:37:09 PM »
Assuming the personal stocks and 401k/Roth categories do not overlap, my math says you have at least $1.5M in liquid assets, PLUS a pension starting at an undefined time, PLUS Social Security income starting in 20y. You could retire safely right now if you were willing to reduce spending to about $55k/year, maybe $60k, and maybe higher than that depending on what cfiresim says.

Here's how:

1) First, graciously accept this facepunch: If you were willing to shell out $6,800 for a fence, you're either a rancher with 2,000 acres or someone living in a very fancy neighborhood with pressures for conspicuous consumption. Think about that financial mistake and the social pressures that led you to make it. Think about how you'd still have that money if you lived elsewhere, among different people more accepting of chain-link. Think about how you'd be retired now if you didn't have to treat your money this way, and that by extension, how you are working now and will be working years from now for things like that fence. How many years of your life is it worth doing this specific sort of thing? How is this fence a metaphor for how you are spending your remaining time on this earth?

Unfortunately, no ranch, just in a location where I have no choice. I would do the chain link if I could. We got the house because of the small town feel and what the town wanted to keep, until 2001 tornado destroyed half the town, then it was a blessing so that they can build up. Honestly selling the house for a cheaper on is not realistic around the DC metro area unless you want  bigger mortgage and longer commute.

2) Now the left hook: Sell one of the 3 cars. You are only 2 people. Why optionally pay for an entire extra car's depreciation, maintenance, insurance, etc? It may only cost you $2500/year to own that beater or "fun" car, but to spend that way in retirement you'll need at least 25X that amount = $62,500. How many months of hard work does that third car represent as it sits there 99% of the time?

I should of added this, the third car is my kid's car which he is in college right now, he lives with us for now and car is in our names as well. eventually it will go with him when he leaves. We are paying for his classes and he can stay here with us until he is finished. should not be too much longer and even if it does, if it helps him out I am fine with it.

3) Can you work remotely? Ask. Eliminate your commuting costs and risks if possible and open up geo-arbitrage opportunities.

great question. yes and no. I can work anywhere in the world, I need to travel to certain places from time to time but I can work remotely 100% if I like. The other contributor needs to be onsite 99% of time. There are options in about a year to find another position with the same company in another state possibly. It is very limited where though.


4) Instead of spending hours on error-prone manual spreadsheets, use Mint.com to track your spending, income, and assets. You need to have these numbers at your fingertips at all times and you have better things to do than manual personal accounting. 

Awesome, I will check that out. The spreadsheets I like for visual taking care of my OCD i guess. I will check this site.


5) Build a budget that strictly totals $55-60k. Include savings in the budget for things like vehicle repair/replacement, a new roof, a new HVAC, new fridge, bath remod someday, travel, etc. Spend six months living on that amount. Did you succeed or fail, and why? What is your FIRE number, and why does it have to be so high? Keep trying until you make it.

interesting.. we will have to try

6) Sell your fancy home and buy a modest house for $200k in a tax-friendly Low Cost Of Living (LCOL) state that has expanded Medicaid per the ACA. Consider paying cash for this home. Get rid of most of your "nice" things, as there are nice things for sale in the marketplace all day every day. There's never any need to hold an expensive inventory of stuff you don't need, just because it's "nice". Look for a small home with accessible bathrooms and not a lot of deferred maintenance. I do not recommend the RV life of renting a parking spot and paying out the nose for depreciation (instead of building equity) while puttering back and forth to the grocery store in a massive, empty truck that has the highest operating cost of anything this side of construction equipment.

as above, DC Metro area would give my love one a longer commute, and most likely a high mortgage. it just this location. hopefully in  a year we can move to somewhere more friendly if she can get another position within the company.

7) Find something to retire to. Will you travel? Will you contribute to society? Will you pursue pure hedonism? Will you read all the literature you never had time for? Will you reconnect with the kids? Make art or music? Make genuine friends instead of just work friends and country club status jockeys? Until you have a purpose, you might as well stay at work (I collect stock market returns from your megacorp, so thanks for your service) :)).

I am planning on traveling and picking up some hobbies I put off and not had time for. make friends and finally learn my guitar I have had for years.
My wife has about 10 years before she can retire, solely to keep 100% of her benefits.

8) To retire early or not is a choice. You have 2 major risks that you can address:
     a) Health. Get a checkup, order some diagnostic labs, stop eating the deadly Standard American Diet, and start exercising.
     b) Divorce. Start seeing a counselor even if you don't think you need one. Surface any differences in values as you both navigate a shift in lifestyle and values. The counselor might be
free while you have insurance through work. Don't wait for the conflict to happen. Manage it.


Health is defiantly not getting better & I hope after 26 years that is not in the cards to separate, but we do a lot of communications now days were we have not in the earlier years..

In addition, I appreciate the honest feedback, it does help.

ALLTHAT

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2022, 01:38:03 PM »
Welcome, ALLTHAT. The others who said you need to list your expenses are correct. Maybe consider going to the "Case Study" forum and listing everything. That way you can get specific recommendations. Your expenses are likely way too much and need to be cut back drastically. Food budget is a big one - eliminate the majority of eating out/takeout and eat at home most of the time. Subscriptions can probably be cancelled even if they seem like small expenses, and new clothing and unnecessary Amazon purchases can probably be cut, etc etc. We won't know for sure what else needs cut unless the expenses are all laid out.

Don't do the extreme RV thing. I would recommend definitely downsizing, though, but I don't know what kind of current living situation you have other than a mortgage balance...  Do purge a lot of stuff and use the money to pay off the mortgage. Use 100% of your bonuses to help pay off the mortgage or save more for retirement. You don't want to run into surprise tax bills by cashing out stocks. Keep those for retirement purposes.

The good news is that your incomes are combined over 300K!! That is incredible, and you will be able to achieve your goal. The bad news is that you will have to make huge lifestyle changes, but you can do it with that income - you really can if you are serious about it.

thank you and I will continue checking out the other threads.

ALLTHAT

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2022, 04:34:30 PM »

8) To retire early or not is a choice. You have 2 major risks that you can address:
     a) Health. Get a checkup, order some diagnostic labs, stop eating the deadly Standard American Diet, and start exercising.
     b) Divorce. Start seeing a counselor even if you don't think you need one. Surface any differences in values as you both navigate a shift in lifestyle and values. The counselor might be free while you have insurance through work. Don't wait for the conflict to happen. Manage it.

You got me re-thinking that last one for sure now. Appreciate the honest brutal truth. very good things to work on.

FIRE 20/20

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Re: FIRE started & looking for some advice on our situation
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2022, 10:24:27 AM »
I think the number one mistake I see from people posting one this board asking for help is not understanding their current and planned spending.  Until you really have a detailed understanding of your expenses it's extremely dangerous to make any serious plans to stop working.  I can't count the number of people who post case studies or ask for help who initially say they live on X but after pages of discussion we find out they spend X every year except this year when they replaced their furnace and bought a motorcycle, and last year when they took a once in a lifetime trip, and the year prior when they spend $20k on their kid's wedding, and the year before they had an extra expense for XYZ...  Getting an understanding of what you truly, really, actually spend is, I think, the most critical piece of being ready for FIRE.  I personally hate the idea of setting a target spending level and trying to stay within that range.  I think it's more valuable to just track your spending for at least 6 months and then work from there, whether that leads to conscious cuts to spending or continuing with the knowledge of where you actually spend. 

I think the second most important thing is being on the same page as your spouse. 

If you have those things covered, then I think the next thing is to see if your values, hopes, and dreams (and your spouse's) align with your spending.  After going through the exercise of working with my partner to understand our spending (we tracked for 6 months before looking at it, and ultimately tracked it for 2 years just before FIRE), we were able to move from a roughly 40% savings rate to 60-70%.  This radically accelerated our FIRE plans but it also made me happier because I knew I was spending money on things that actually improved my life but wasn't spending as much on things that didn't.  It's crazy for non-mustachians to hear, but it really was the case that we were happier spending 30-40% of our income than we were spending 60%.  The reason is that I knew that my spending was actually aligned with what I wanted in my life.  I also felt much more free to spend on things I valued because we suddenly had more money available from not spending on things we didn't value.  And of course it also meant that I was able to FIRE three years ago at 42. 

Good luck.