FIRE in a Sprinter Van

[Dancin'Dog]

We're looking into getting a Transit for travelling.  Glad I found this thread.  :)

[Retire-Canada]

Not sure how people in a van could routinely climb, bike, kayak and more from a van unless they are going to rent equipment each time.  There is only so much room in a van and considering many want solar and a kitchen counter with sink and small frig in the van, no idea how all the equipment is going to fit.  I find it unrealistic.

I know lots of multi-sport people doing the van thing. Try Google Search if you really are interested in seeing how it's done. Ultimately I am hearing a lot of negativity from you on the topic and for sure heading down a different path like this will not work if you start thinking that way. If you are not interested in van living in North America that's fine, but I don't get the negative rationalization why it sucks and won't work despite the pretty easy to find empirical evidence to the contrary.

[CanuckExpat]

"People Who Say It Cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt Those Who Are Doing It"

[CanuckExpat]

Spartana, how are you doing a long term van rental? Specific company? Was it reasonable rates?

[Caoineag]

...

Yeah, but is that the profile of most living in a van.  From my experience watching on youtube, it is not.  If that is one's thing, however, more power to them, great!  For those just traveling to Alaska in the summer to beat the heat and then traveling to Florida in the winter to beat the cold, it will get old fast.  It won't be an adventure.

I promise you won't ever see youtube videos from my husband and I but the bikes are inside the van, we will either do an inflatable kayak or a foldable one and walking/hiking doesn't require fancy equipment.

And you clearly have never been off the beaten path if you think you can find the same old stores in every neighborhood. I still remember shouting with glee when we found a tackle shop because we needed eggs and there were no stores...

[mathlete]

Oh man. And I thought the Early Retirement Police were rough! Now we have Adventuring Police.

I've lived in the United States my whole life, and I've been adventuring since I was a little kid. I love international travel too, but I have a list of like, a hundred adventures I still need to do stateside.

And if 2017 has taught me anything, it is that the United States definitely is not made up of all the same people telling the same story.

To each their own though.

[use2betrix]

We could live in a Sprinter van, but traveling the US isn't adventurous enough for us.  The US to us is boring.  Basically all the same people in all the states, all the same stores, all the same neighborhoods for the most part, same highways and roadways, just boring.  It would get old quick.  We'd rather travel in unfamiliar territory where we are more challenged and where there is more to learn.

Some people that travel in the US say things about meeting people and how great that is, but meeting new people means telling your same old story to each of them (for conversation) and I'd get tire of hearing myself talk.  It was like when I was dating, every new woman, tell her about me, settling down was great, didn't have to hear myself tell my life story again.

I’m surprised someone who is striving to appear so culturalized also appears so close minded

You think a Sprinter van limits you to the states? Come on lol. Take trips through Canada, Alaska, Baja, Mexico, and all of Central American, then get back to us. Honestly, many people ferry their vehicles down to South America as well.

In the last year I’ve spent 8 weeks backpacking 5 countries in Asia. 3 weeks doing a 3000 mile Motorcycle trip through Baja, and 2 months doing a cross country US/Canada trip for 8000 miles in our 4runner and off-road trailer.

I fully understand the desire to travel out of the US, but based on your post it’s fairly obvious that you’ve barely experienced a sliver of North America.

My wife and I plan to go back to Baja next with the 4runner and Off Road trailer with RTT next. I honestly think we enjoyed it there more than Asia, and we definitely experienced a LOT in Asia. I’d eventually like to do a Central America run as well.

Our 4runner/trailer set up is very convenient, capable, and comfortable. We slept in the tent 38/41 nights in total comfort including several nights of slow, and have been working on it more since to make things more convenient for longer term.

[Retire-Canada]

You think a Sprinter van limits you to the states?

You can ship a van to any continent on the planet for a few thousand dollars, but if FB can't get his mind wrapped around the very basics there is no point even thinking about that.

You can also put the van into storage far more easily than a house or apartment and jump on a plane for a trip to any part of the world when you want to do something different.

[FenderBender]

It is possible to do what you guys say - I agree.  Pretty much all things are possible within reason.  It depends on your goal.

I've watched many youtubes on the subject and none are outfitted to do it all.  Most seem to be concerned mostly about being able to stealth camp in cities without being bothered by the police and  recently most are outfitting vans with solar so the top of the van can't have solar and adventure equipment, because a slight shadow on panels has an enormous affect on output. 

My perspective comes from youtube alone.  Sure there are some that can do something different, but my opinion is that the majority of van dwellers are of the youtube type.  I'm not saying there is no one outside of the youtube type, however.

The vans pictured aren't stealth vans, they aren't the typical in my opinion, but if the typical in your mind is an adventure van, that is fine, we have different viewpoints. 

Vans pictured wouldn't be stealth enough in a city or a touristy beach area, but more purposed for way out in the middle of nowhere, which is fine, but the van dwellers I see on youtube, most of them, aren't the "I want to be out in the middle of nowhere" types.   That is my impression, but if you have a different take, that's fine.  I personally haven't seen the adventurous types out to do many different outdoor activities as the typical van dweller, but if that is your impression, again, that's fine. 

The vans pictured may also not be for van living, but geared toward adventure weekends.  Van living is entirely different than taking a van out for a weekend or even a week.

Not sure many would adventure in Mexico/Central America with a van that has a lot of valuables hanging all over it.  It isn't a good idea doing that in certain North America cities let alone Mexico/Central America.  Fine if you know people doing it, but I've not witnessed it.

[Aegishjalmur]

Cargo van's are surprisingly roomy. You can fit a lot in. Think of it as Master level 3d tetris- none/few of the items are the same shape and you are fitting into odd shaped/non square areas. Part of the issue though is that until you look at the options, you don't know what's available. One vandweller on his blog(vandog traveler) commented that when vam living, your brain switches into 24/7 problem solving mode, and I have found this to be true even when doing the build out. The process of designing and building is challenging from a creative standpoint, but it's FUN.  my van is something that DW and me can use. It suits are needs and wants and we are still tweaking as we go, but after having lived and travelled out of it for over 5 weeks, we have it dialed in to suit are needs. For example:

Solar panels- you can do the permanent ones attached to the roof, but you can also get portable ones that are in a fold up cloth bag(so very light/portable and easy to store, which also makes vehicle more stealthy.

As Spartana mentioned you can get either collapsible canoes(google origami canoe) or inflatable kayaks that take up minimal space, and a 12 volt air pump is pretty small.

Kindles can replace whole libraries.

Power: Yes, you can do generators and large battery banks, but you can also get smaller battery systems that way well under 20 lb's that an either be charged by solar panels on 12 volt when travelling/driving(Goal zero has some large ones, but a quick amazon search will bring up others). Most small electronics can be charged on these or again on USB hookups when driving. You can't have everything but you learn what you use. for example, small USB powered fans an last 3-4 nights and when you have a smaller lightweight lithium battery hookup, you can hang from the ceiling to have a breeze on warmer nights(I am not big on putting holes in my van. holes can leak so a roof vent is not a favored option). A spare white tarp and a couple lengths of rope/stakes can make a quick sunshade for the van if in a warmer area with very little shade to help keep cooler.

I have a cooler(not a yeti, you don't need to go that pricey) that when temps are in upper 70's, low 80's, a 20 lb bag of ice lasts several days so eliminates need of fridge.

Good insulated mugs allow you to make up hot coffee/tea/water in the morning and have throughout day.

A collapsible outdoor room combined with collapsible table, folding chairs gives you the ability to get extra room for cooking and relaxing when camping.

[FenderBender]

I have to chuckle at the inconvenience that some think others will take on a regular basis while "living" in a van as opposed to a weekend out.  Still not buying it, but guys, have fun.

[CanuckExpat]

Regarding the different perspectives on van and vehicle dwelling, a big part is that hopefully when you are FIRE'd you are doing it because you want to, and it lets you do what you want to do, not because you have to. If for some reason you don't like it, you can stop doing it. Almost anything can be enjoyable if you are choosing to do it, and most things can be horrible if you have to do it.

On the more negative sides, I have read some experiences along "Parked outside of your parents’ apartment, or on a side street in San Clemente, you realize, after about a week, that you’re no longer a nomad, you’re just homeless and living in a van. And that realization is harsh."

But that is more a matter of being forced to live out of a van from economic necessity (or a bad choice) which is hopefully not the case when FIRE'd

[Primm]

In slightly exciting news, Husband has been told his next (full private use with first option to buy when they change them over) work vehicle will be a Sprinter.

He currently has a Merc. Vito van. I must admit, if the Sprinter is as rubbish in build quality as the Vito, we won't be taking them up on their offer. But given the usual changeover period is about 3-4 years and he won't be getting it until about May-July 2018, we have plenty of time to evaluate the vehicle and decide what we want to do. Plus we will know the history since new.

[arebelspy]

On the more negative sides, I have read some experiences along "Parked outside of your parents’ apartment, or on a side street in San Clemente, you realize, after about a week, that you’re no longer a nomad, you’re just homeless and living in a van. And that realization is harsh."

Haha!

Some of us like being homeless and living in a van [RV].  ;)

[Loren Ver]

I have to chuckle at the inconvenience that some think others will take on a regular basis while "living" in a van as opposed to a weekend out.  Still not buying it, but guys, have fun.

Try mywilddreams.net if you actually want an example. He is even planning a trip to Mexico. If you are just here to tell us your youtube search is the only sampling you will accept and you don't think that sounds like fun, please feel free to ignore. To each their own.

Many people that FIRE and/or go adventuring post less as they are busy living it up.

If the goal is to maximize ones happiness, then the options for declaring success are very personal but also  limitless.

Lv

[swashbucklinstache]

PTF. PTF so hard. work life is so blehhhh

[CanuckExpat]

Some of us like being homeless and living in a van [RV].  ;)

Apparently the term (or at least one term) is “houseless” from this again slightly less than positive article: Many older Americans are living a desperate, nomadic life

Again, big difference between being houseless by choice and it being awesome, and being houseless by necessity, which is what I think a lot of the negative youtube videos will be

[arebelspy]

Again, big difference between being houseless by choice and it being awesome, and being houseless by necessity

Absolutely.

My comment about liking being homeless was very tongue-in-cheek.

There are an unfortunate number of people in bad housing situations due to events outside of their control and not enough public safety net to help them.

Thanks for sharing those articles!

[FenderBender]

It is awesome that some people are willing to actually live in a van full time with snowboards, skis, bikes, hiking/climbing gear, surfboards and solar panels all attached and/or nicely folded away.  That is great if it is what you really want to be doing.  I'm not saying no one on earth is willing to tackle living in a van and even more in an RV, but we aren't talking about RVs, the OP is about living in a van.  I'm saying most won't live in a van and if you guys are saying people willing to do this are easy to find, I find it suspect, because often on this forum, people speak about others spending way too much money fueling their convenient lifestyle which means generally the opinion of others outside of this forum is that most people favor convenience over inconvenience even to the point that they won't mow their lawn or clean their own house or drive a dated car.  So if you are saying there are a few tough individuals out there willing to sacrifice convenience for years by living in a van and having no secondary living space other than the occasional hotel/motel, yeah, I agree. 

[Dicey]

My van dwelling hero, Glenn Morissette, used to run a blog called "To Simplify." He's on his third van. He built van #3 himself. He recently decided to simplify further by shutting down the blog and moving to Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/tosimplify/

Part of why he did so was because of the steady stream of negative comments from the naysayers.  It got old being told it wouldn't work, while he had been doing exactly that for years, and quite successfully.

[DumpTruck]

I'm gonna do it.

I'm not even close to my $625k but instead of grinding the corporate life anymore, I'm just going to reduce expenses by renting my house out, or airbnb it, one of the two.

My GF and I have already done some sweet 10 day trips in this. Actually, first we did 8 days out of a 2004 Sienna. I wanted to live in the Sienna, but she convinced me that since we have 2 dogs as well, to get this giant whale of a van.

For chistmas we will be in it for 15 days.

When we are out at Joshua tree for 5 days just climbing, biking, without a care in the world, I feel amazing. Work feels like some tiny problem from a former life. I know I can do it, I have money stashed that wouldn't really have to be touched. Margin on the rental plus odd jobs and internet work can pay for fuel and food. GF has an internet based business already.

Plus if it gets really bad, we can eat the dogs. Jk, if it gets really bad, we can bail back to "normal" life, but this is probably more prep for full -time sailboat living.

Cool thing about this van, is it's not a Sprinter. Bad thing about this van, is it's a Ford. Well, just kidding, kind of. It's absolutely a more reliable drivetrain and it has a twin turbo 3.5 V6 with  400 ft.lb torque and 310 HP. It is seriously fast as hell, even at 7800 LBs, pulling about a 16 second quarter mile. MPG not great we average around 16, but it's a 7800 LB land yacht.





 

[DumpTruck]

gah so lame how this forum doesn't automatically resize pics. what am i doing wrong

[2Birds1Stone]

Dump Truck, I would love more info on your build!!

[DumpTruck]

It's a 2015 Ford Transit 250 (not a connect) - long wheelbase, extended body, high roof. It's huge.

I bought it used mostly kitted out like it is, with a 450 aH battery bank, 2800 continuous watt pure sine inverter, and Norcold DE0041 refridgerator.

The batteries charge off the van but I recently bought solar panels, solar charge controller, and all the fixings to install the solar system. I'm going to reconfigure the whole van and start from scratch soon, I want to emphasize a weight reduction and use LiPO4 battery banks instead of the lead acid, and install 80/20 aluminum framing for everything. And a different insulation system.

I wish i could get the pics to insert properly

[Aegishjalmur]

I want to emphasize a weight reduction and use LiPO4 battery banks instead of the lead acid, and install 80/20 aluminum framing for everything. And a different insulation system.

You aren't joking there, in terms of weight savings and usability, the lithium is a huge benefit. An AGM bank of that size is what, 250 lb's or so? vs lithium which would be about half that plus significantly less bulky. 

[DumpTruck]

I want to emphasize a weight reduction and use LiPO4 battery banks instead of the lead acid, and install 80/20 aluminum framing for everything. And a different insulation system.

You aren't joking there, in terms of weight savings and usability, the lithium is a huge benefit. An AGM bank of that size is what, 250 lb's or so? vs lithium which would be about half that plus significantly less bulky.

Yes it's easily 250 LBs, currently I have three group 31s. They are super super heavy. But the previous owner used a lot of wood cabinetry etc, so there is a lot of room to lighten up.

[Aegishjalmur]

Wood is pretty but definitely heavy. Looking at those photos it looks like they built it pretty sturdily so I suspect you will be able to cut quite a bit of weight(so for example, if have solid wood dividers between cabinets, may be able to remove those and replace w/ a single brace). Sounds like a fun project, rebuilding it and making it your own.

You mentioned improving the insulation, are you taking down the walls? If so, maybe look at replacing the existing  with either thinner wood panels or wainscot?

If you really want to lighten it up, look at the wire metal shelving from Home depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-48-in-W-x-72-in-H-x-18-in-D-Decorative-Wire-Chrome-Heavy-Duty-Shelving-Unit-HD18481302PS-1/203846551   you can also get 'basket' shelves that have an 8 inch deep basket so things won't slide.

What's fun with the vans is you can go as complex or simple as you want to fit how you use it.

[FenderBender]

It is awesome that some people are willing to actually live in a van full time with snowboards, skis, bikes, hiking/climbing gear, surfboards and solar panels all attached and/or nicely folded away.  That is great if it is what you really want to be doing.  I'm not saying no one on earth is willing to tackle living in a van and even more in an RV, but we aren't talking about RVs, the OP is about living in a van.  I'm saying most won't live in a van and if you guys are saying people willing to do this are easy to find, I find it suspect, because often on this forum, people speak about others spending way too much money fueling their convenient lifestyle which means generally the opinion of others outside of this forum is that most people favor convenience over inconvenience even to the point that they won't mow their lawn or clean their own house or drive a dated car.  So if you are saying there are a few tough individuals out there willing to sacrifice convenience for years by living in a van and having no secondary living space other than the occasional hotel/motel, yeah, I agree.

No one here said everyone wants to do this. Even that most frugal ERE (early retirement extreme) or MMMs want to do this. But there are people who not only live and travel in vans but actually prefer doing it that way compared to other ways. Just as there are people who love to spend years self contained bicycle touring around the world (this would be my personal preferred way to travel but my dog hates it but still dream:  http://solofemalecyclist.com/p/wow-women-on-wheels.html ). Or motorcycle touring like forum member Endless. Journey. Or backpacking their way around the globe for years. To them even small car camping would be unappealing. Is that "most" people? No. Is it even a lot of people? Probably not. Does that matter to those of us who prefer this kind of life? No. No one here has said you or anyone else should like it or do it. If it doesn't suit your life that's great. There are millions of more mainstream websites and blogs for more traditional RV or larger more highly equipted camper van touring you might find that fit your vision better. 

Right "no one here"  I get it, really, I get it, I need no further clarification, but thanks, I completely understand.

[terran]

gah so lame how this forum doesn't automatically resize pics. what am i doing wrong

You can add a width= some number (in pixels) to your image tag like so:

[terran]

Some of us like being homeless and living in a van [RV].  ;)

Apparently the term (or at least one term) is “houseless” from this again slightly less than positive article: Many older Americans are living a desperate, nomadic life

Again, big difference between being houseless by choice and it being awesome, and being houseless by necessity, which is what I think a lot of the negative youtube videos will be

Or you could take a note from the childless becomes childfree movement and be housefree or homefree.

[Dicey]

Thanks for resizing those pics, Terran.

Dump Truck, most refrigerators are designed to be opened from either side, but most people don't realize they're reversible. Not sure about the small ones, but it might be worth a look. Convenience/utility in a tiny space takes on a much higher priority.

And Spartana, your tact is amazing. Nicely played.

[Loren Ver]

Dump Truck - I am so excited for you.  Happy travels, the van looks like fun!

DH and I are doing a first run with our van over Thanksgiving weekend.  Hammocks to be strung in the back and with plastic bins to start figuring out placement.

LV

[Caoineag]

Dump Truck - I am so excited for you.  Happy travels, the van looks like fun!

DH and I are doing a first run with our van over Thanksgiving weekend.  Hammocks to be strung in the back and with plastic bins to start figuring out placement.

LV

Good luck! We started with the mattress on the floor and plastic bins and 5 versions later have our preferred layout. Its fun figuring out what works best for you.

[2Birds1Stone]

Does anyone know if there is a cached version of Glenn Morrissette's "To Simplify" blog?

It was pure gold in terms of this type of lifestyle. Now the URL to the blog redirects to Glenn's Instagram.

:(

[2Birds1Stone]

Does anyone know if there is a cached version of Glenn Morrissette's "To Simplify" blog?

It was pure gold in terms of this type of lifestyle. Now the URL to the blog redirects to Glenn's Instagram.

:(

Archive.org has pieces of Glenn's old site in their snapshots:

https://web.archive.org/web/*/www.tosimplify.net

Make sure to look at the snapshots prior to May 16 (when Glenn redirected to IG), otherwise you'll get in a weird redirect loop.

I wonder why he took it down......thank you for sharing that!

[Retire-Canada]

I wonder why he took it down......thank you for sharing that!

He simplified his online presence.

[CanuckExpat]

Again, big difference between being houseless by choice and it being awesome, and being houseless by necessity

Absolutely.

My comment about liking being homeless was very tongue-in-cheek.

There are an unfortunate number of people in bad housing situations due to events outside of their control and not enough public safety net to help them.

Thanks for sharing those articles!

I got the tounge in cheek. I use the same comment, but I may be worse.
I saw another article about vehicle dwellers in Silicon Valley and one family mentioned paying $1,000 / month to rent their RV (probably cheap compared to rent, and easier with bad credit) and my first thought was hmm I could rent out my RV and make money...

So you are tounge in cheek, I might be actively evil :S

Or you could take a note from the childless becomes childfree movement and be housefree or homefree.

I like that terminology (and job free). I think for now I'll stick to free range human

[CanuckExpat]

Does anyone know if there is a cached version of Glenn Morrissette's "To Simplify" blog?

It was pure gold in terms of this type of lifestyle. Now the URL to the blog redirects to Glenn's Instagram.

:(

Any particularly good articles you liked (if you can find cached versions)

[Aegishjalmur]

Dump Truck - I am so excited for you.  Happy travels, the van looks like fun!

DH and I are doing a first run with our van over Thanksgiving weekend.  Hammocks to be strung in the back and with plastic bins to start figuring out placement.

LV

The build out is a lot of fun.

Just as a warning, you would be surprised how much things will try to move(especially if you need to stop suddenly going down a hill, or turning sharply, or going off roading over even moderately rough ground), and how annoying rattling can be so I have a few suggestions: 1. Get a multi pack of Bungie cords and/or you can get 36 inch zipties that have a 250 lb tensile strength(and these are big enough that with a small screwdriver you can press down the 'tongue' portion to release it to allow reuse(so you can easily test multiple setups before deciding how you want it and permanently attaching). Between these you can secure things to the sides of the van and into the shelves to prevent things sliding around or jumping out of the bins. 2. Bring extra sheets or towels. These can be used as padding to prevent the rattling, or at least muffle it down. If you put a sheet/blanket over the bins after they have been secured to the walls, it will muffle the sounds of things sliding around inside the bins.