FIRE has triggered intense anxiety and depression.

[kork]

I started a post a number of months back called "I bought a new house and it didn't make me any happier" - https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/i-bought-a-new-home-and-it-didn't-make-me-any-happier/

The gist is that we bought a new home which was to be our "forever" home. Since then, my life in my mind has been in a catastrophic decline.

I'm starting a new thread because this now has little to do with a house.  It has to do with my perception of turning 40 years old and seeing the rest of life barrelling down on me... and fast and having no clue what to do. I'm 40, my DW just turned 48 (Holy f***, that sounds old). My oldest daughter also seemingly grew up overnight.  She's turning 13 in a few months. She's the same height as my wife!

I'm driven, work hard and by most yardsticks in North American success, successful. 8 months ago, as a family we decided to move to a better neighbourhood without used needles in our backyard. It's been a downhill battle ever since... If you're interested, see the thread mentioned  above.

While most of my peers are entering their crunch years (kids, mortgages, living paycheck to paycheck because they deserve nice things) they have not yet saved a cent of money for retirement. Sure, they're paying down their mortgages, but beyond that, they're just making it.

Our net worth is $1.4 million including the house. We've got about $750k liquid. And in the last couple years I've realized that I won't necessarily want to fully-retire. I'm more of a semi-fire kindof person. So as I used to describe it to people that pretty soon, I could be a SUP instructor or work at a local bike shop part-time or start a business...  Anything I wanted to. I could even pet kittens for a living and as long as we accidentally earned enough money to pay for our cost of living which is modest, and not draw down from our stache, retirement (when we choose to do it fully) would be wonderful.

But enter my anxiety disorder.

The very thing that has allowed me to focus on FIRE and create these wonderful visions in my head of freedom and excitement are now being replaced with thoughts of... But then what? Live in a RV for the next, I don't know...  40 years? What about failing mobility or health? What on earth would I do every day to stay occupied? I've been focusing on "getting" and have no clue how to simply "be" without my mind wandering into dark places. I need something or else my brain sends me into a spiral into the land of "what's the worst that could happen?"

And now my brain is in a continual loop, trying to solve this problem like a dog on a bone.

What's the problem?

Death and more specifically, loneliness. I'm watching everyone around me get older. I don't feel any different. I feel like I'm 20. But suddenly, I look at my wife and I think "my wife just aged 20 years overnight..." We'll be out for a walk in our new neighbourhood, and we're talking to our neighbours and I'm fixated on thinking "how old are you?" and I'm noticing lines and wrinkles and crows feet. I feel like a 20 year old talking to grown-ups.  I wonder if they feel like a 20 year old talking to grown-ups too? I don't feel that way with existing friends, only new people I meet. It's like an age dysphoria.

I don't want to sound like a vanity obsessed asshole, I'm just being honest because I want to address the underlying issue. I want to "shallow Hal" it and not see visual beauty. I certainly don't want to lose my sight, but GIVE ME TONY ROBBINS!

And so all of a sudden, enter the anxiety. I just turned 40, wife is 48. My grandparents all died in their 90's, including my 270lb grandmother. My genetics are excellent for long life.  But here's what sucks. Long life doesn't add years to the beginning of life... They add it to the end. We just get older and older and older. I watched all of my grandparents grow frail enough to need a nursing home. My grandmother and grandfather could no longer be in the same room. They were bed ridden, on their own. My grandfather lived out his final months/years watching the stock market ticker tape. My grandmother would sit in a chair, watch the Price is Right and have nothing to look forward to... Just living dying a day at a time, hoping for death to come and take her to stop the struggle of being blind or having aching joints, difficulty breathing and fearing what would hurt or fail next. Loss of mobility, loss of independence, loss of themselves...

And given that my wife is 7.5 years older than me, I'm continually playing out the loneliness of when she passes away. It's almost like I'm "pre-mourning" the  loss of my wife and it hurts more than words can describe And now when I look at her, I see she's getting older. It's a trigger. I'm in tears multiple times of the day just with these very thoughts.

And so the anxiety has been leading to depression.

Now, the whole issue here is thought process. If I don't "think" about it, then it doesn't bother me. "Just stop thinking that way Kork." Yup, I'm first in line! I'd love to find out how.

I have hope that I'll get over this slump...  That I'll have an epiphany that will let me get over it. That somebody will say something so wise that it triggers a new wave of thought  for me.

And with my quest to FIRE, I was so preoccupied with the actual goal, I didn't stop to think about what I'd do... YAY!  FIRE! I read about decompression, type-A personalities, etc.  How would I occupy my time? And now that I'm depressed it's beginning to feel like it's a very slow, meaningless march to the end. I can't think of anything that interests me or brings me joy. My "feel okay" places are in bed with the blinds shut and dark, taking a hot bath with lavender bubbles and a couple candles (and a plastic boat, cause, you know... I'm a man). I also find solace sitting barefoot in a chair while poking at the firepit in the backyard. It's not a happy place. But I'm working on it.

My best friend of 30 years comes up to our family cottage with his wife and kids. The moments are perfect. They're wonderful by definition.  I can't seem to live in the moment and enjoy the moment. I get caught up in "what's the point." It sucks.

And I'm not just idly sitting by. Here's what I'm doing.

1. CBD oil - Have seen my GP several times and have a prescription for CBD oil (not sure if it's helping or not, but giving it a shot).
2. Medication - I have a prescription for Lorazepam but am only looking to use it when I absolutely need it. I started taking Zoloft but it almost killed me.  See below.
3. Counselling - I've seen a counsellor to determine what kind of counselling I could benefit from. As a result, I'm looking into a mindfulness group workshop, another one regarding being self-critical and of course, individual counselling. Individual counselling is tricky because I'm not sure what type of counsellor (male, female, older, my age?) would be best and I'm afraid to fail.
4. Spousal Support - My wife is leaving work early every day to be with me and the kids. This is helping with the isolation that I was going through in the winter/spring months. Kids are on summer vacation and there are days that I feel like I can't even get out of bed. I'm in what feels like a "safe space" as they like to call it. She's spoken with her employer and they are sympathetic as mental health runs in their family as well. They "get it." This is a short term bandaid.
5. Psychiatrist - I have a meeting with a psychiatrist at the beginning of August to see about actual diagnoses. My GP diagnosed me with GAD 20 years ago, but I don't know? Daily routines don't mess with me. Getting in my car to do daily stuff doesn't create anxiety as it does for many.  My issue is that my mind races and when it gets onto something, it latches on like a Pitbull and doesn't let go. This time around, my brain, like when I was 8 years old) has latched onto death and loneliness. It's been suggested I may have mild Bipolar and that mood stabilizers may help.
6. [ADDED:]Exercise and Nutrition - I exercise often. Cycling and weight training. Last year, I got down to nearly 160lbs but was far too thin for my body type.  I'm now a much healthier 185lbs. My face no longer looks like a skeleton.

THE PATH TO ZOLOFT
So 3 weeks ago, after realizing that part of the challenge may be isolation and loneliness, I started investigating ways to make new relationships. I work from home which is isolating and I was at a really low point.  There was a local meetup group called "connections" and it's all about getting people together to create connections. 500 members with a goal to create meaningful relationships for people through social interaction and events.  They had a meetup for mindfulness and meditation.  So I'm thinking, this could help. Mindfulness is something I've been reading about and I'd love to address the loneliness. So I put myself out there. At this time, I'm anxious, I'm depressed and grasping. I feel like I'm drowning in a sea of waves and my head is going under and I can barely breathe. I decided, out of desperation to attend the event.

So I drove to the event and got there 10 minutes early.  I walked through the front door and was the only one there.  I was greeted by an older gentleman. We started talking and chatting and I asked how many people usually made it out and he replied with "well, we're trying."

I was the only one.

So we chatted for a while, waiting for others to show up. Nope. Nobody. Nobody came to the "connections" meetup. Closer to the end, I found out that the older gentleman was 52 years old.  Only 4 years older than my wife. My heart sank... This old man is practically the same age as my wife. Now, I will say that my wife doesn't look for feel 48. She's active and beautiful and she's a wonderful person. I love her with all my heart and have for 22 years. Looking at us nobody would see the age difference. 

<personal vulnerability>
I left, got in my car and cried. I cried all the way to my mom's house. The emotional pain just needed to leave my body. I wasn't physically hurt, it was just overwhelming. I got to my moms house and gave her a big hug and cried in her arms. She knows I've been going through challenges, but I think this made it real for her.

And that's when I tapped out. I decided to start taking the Zoloft.

Fast forward a few days. Holy $hit. I would wake up at 2am with waves of emotion washing through me with such intensity and pain. It truly felt like a demonic force was trying to take over my body. That it was trying to work it's way in there. The emotional pain was so intense, that I gave my wife the bottle of Zoloft so that she could hide it from me for fear that I might suddenly, in a moment of weak desperation swallow the whole bottle. For the first time in my life, I researched what it's like to have suicidal tendencies because that's a question they always ask before an appt with a doctor. I checked off half of the list as being a potential candidate.

At this point, I could certainly understand how Robin Williams, Heath Ledger or Anthony Bourdain would have felt that this was the only way out...

5 days into it, I saw my doctor again and we both agreed to stop the Zoloft. That's when I decided to give the CBD oil a fair chance. I don't drink, I've never smoked (anything) and my ways of dealing with stress and anxiety have traditionally been through diet and exercise.  Beyond that, I don't have any other escapes. No other vices. CBD oil feels like a failure to me but I'm getting over that.

</personal vulnerability>

And so here I am. In 8 months I've gone from someone who's happy and interesting in things to anxious, depressed and uninterested. It's a terrible cycle. I was an 8.5/10 on the happiness scale for the last number of years. Fast forward to today, anxiety and depression rampage all over my life and leave me anxious and depressed.

Two things that helps.

1. Knowing I'm not alone and I'm not the only person to struggle.
2. Taking about it.

Anyways, this has gotten long.  As per #2 above, I'm talking about it.

FWIW, very few know about this. Looking in from the outside, it's with envy from my peers. Nobody would see me as I truly am based on the image I project. Not all is what it seems.

Thanks for listening.

[wageslave23]

Professional help is DEFINITELY the way to go.  The only thing I would add to your list of self help is exercise.  Lots of exercise and outdoor time, at least an hour or two per day.  Keep in mind your health in old age is largely under your control.  There is no reason you and your wife can't be happy, healthy and active well into your 80's.  One other point is that, although you probably know this, your suicidal thoughts are not rational.  You fear getting old and dying, so you want to kill yourself - that just brings about what you fear more quickly.  You mentioned that life seems pointless.  This may seem counter intuitive but instead of fighting that thought, embrace it.  It takes all the pressure off.  Enjoy the parts of life that you enjoy, struggle through the parts that you don't and when you are stressed out remember that its all silly anyways and will be over in a relatively short amount of time. 

[kork]

Professional help is DEFINITELY the way to go.  The only thing I would add to your list of self help is exercise.  Lots of exercise and outdoor time, at least an hour or two per day.  Keep in mind your health in old age is largely under your control.  There is no reason you and your wife can't be happy, healthy and active well into your 80's.  One other point is that, although you probably know this, your suicidal thoughts are not rational.  You fear getting old and dying, so you want to kill yourself - that just brings about what you fear more quickly.  You mentioned that life seems pointless.  This may seem counter intuitive but instead of fighting that thought, embrace it.  It takes all the pressure off.  Enjoy the parts of life that you enjoy, struggle through the parts that you don't and when you are stressed out remember that its all silly anyways and will be over in a relatively short amount of time.

Yes, the suicidal thoughts were just escapes and I believe were heavily influenced by the medication and messing with my brain chemicals. I'm still certainly not in a good place, but I'm no longer in "that" place. About a month ago I was driving home. I was beside a transport truck on the highway and I thought "I could end it all right now... No more pain and suffering." Then the thought quickly left my mind. I've since found out that this is not a suicidal thought and more common than I expected it to be. But what scared me was that I almost felt an involuntary impulse to turn the wheel after I said "NO" in my head. It was like it was no longer my conscious mind, but something subconscious. It was like a reaction that I didn't have control over. Nothing happened, but for the first time in my life I felt like "what was that???" That's why I gave my wife the medication.

In no way am I in a frame of mind to plan a suicide. But that one time freaked me out enough that I thought... WTF?

[partgypsy]

First of all, women in general live longer than men (for example in the US 73.4 years for males and 80.1 years for females, a difference of 6.7 years. And, stress (even self-created stress) is a killer. So don't be so sure that you will outlive your wife. There are far more widows in the world than widowers. 

I am going to totally project, but my ex hubby basically slowly self-destructed around age 45, began an affair, started smoking, drinking more, staying out late, fomo. Huge mid-life crisis. You are going through textbook mid-life crisis. One thing I read, is that men's mid life crisis is less correlated with their own age, but by their wife's age. In fact some men go through multiple mid life crises, because they divorce their first wife (who approaching menopause) during first mid life crisis, remarry someone younger, and then go through another crisis when new wife gets older. And it does seem like you are focusing an awful lot on your wife's age, and how she looks older. I'm not saying that's all of it, but something that struck me.

I don't have any answers. All the things you are talking about sound reasonable. Basically just use the tools you have to get through this period of high emotional stress (which is exhausting in and of itself) and then can do more to examine the whys and what nexts.

And, maybe working from home is not for you. Consider getting an office job. Then you will be forced to get out of house, interact, etc. 

 

[RH]

Try this RIGHT NOW
1) Write down where you are on your happiness scale.
2) Got outside for a 20 minutes walk or bike ride. Maybe also listen to some of your favorite tunes to block out the noise...even some classics from the 80's
3) Where are you now on the happiness scale? If it's even a little bit higher, then do this walk/bike ride every day...especially in the mornings when you wake up.

If this is making a difference, then over time perhaps do some group bike rides or group exercise classes at the gym. There will always be people there to help with your isolation from working at home. Just try it...anyone can try this at least for a week.

[Gumption]

I think you have been so focused on FIRE that perhaps you haven't had as much time to think about yourself.
Now that you are closer to being set free from the task of "work", the smoke clears and all that's left is you. That can be a seriously daunting task at midlife, but it is one that's a natural part of being a human and growing up. Anxiety, panic and depression are all natural symptoms of a midlife crisis.

I think you should cash in on all the hard work you have done and find a good therapist who can help you navigate through the process. Perhaps you can count yourself lucky to be able to deal with this. I think most non-FIRE folks don't really get to go through this as they are just focused work, work, work up until 65+. This is your chance to find the authentic you.
Check out "From Misery to Meaning in Midlife. by James Hollis"

As far as antidepressants, I do know they can make things a lot worse initially and also if they aren't the right fit. I'm not a doctor, so I am not going to give my advice as far as that goes, but i do know those take awhile to get out of your system and for your system to reset itself back to where it was before. In the interim, anxiety and panic can be much higher than where you were before you started.

Best of luck. Keep the faith.

EDIT:
After reading this again, I feel that some of what you are going through might have to do with the antidepressant. Those are very powerful and they seriously alter the neurochemistry of your brain. I am not knocking them per se, but I will tell you that getting on and off those (particularly if you are sensitive to them, or if they are not the right fit, or if your doc started you out on too high a dose) can be a nightmare. The intense thoughts and emotions that you were writing about could stem from the use of the ADs. I would talk with your doctor, but know that if it is the ADs, these feelings and thoughts will eventually subside. I know you were only on them for 5 days, but it could take weeks for your body to reset itself.

Midlife depression is one thing, but i think its worth considering those intense, scary emotions as deriving from something else.

[Lady SA]

And given that my wife is 7.5 years older than me, I'm continually playing out the loneliness of when she passes away. It's almost like I'm "pre-mourning" the  loss of my wife and it hurts more than words can describe And now when I look at her, I see she's getting older. It's a trigger. I'm in tears multiple times of the day just with these very thoughts.

I'd explore finding an EMDR therapist for the thoughts of death, loneliness, and fear about your wife getting older and such, as that seems to be feeding a lot of your anxiety. EMDR was developed for processing trauma but I've found it extremely helpful in addressing deep-seated anxiety about particular topics as well. What you wrote here that I quoted sounds like a great candidate for EMDR therapy.
EMDR = eye movement desensitization and reprocessing

It totally sounds like voodoo, just moving your eyes back and forth or tapping on each side of your body, but I swear it works. I've been in therapy with an EMDR therapist for 4 years and my own anxiety/fear halved (halved!!) after the first session, and each subsequent session it halved again. I went from having panic attacks multiple times per day (intense fear of encountering certain people, even in places they rationally wouldn't be because they didn't live close to me--I was panicking standing at the bus stop in case they were on the bus, panicking before getting off the bus in case they happened to be on that street at the same time, at my grocery store in case they walked in, driving on the highway in case I saw their car, panicking leaving my house in case they were outside, etc), to twice per week after the FIRST session, to none in the last 3 years. I've been freed, I had been trapped in my own mind, a terrible maze of panic and pain, and going towards a very dark place, withdrawing into myself and avoiding leaving the safety of my house and believing that this was forever. My therapist single-handedly saved my life, I firmly believe that.

Anyway, I don't want to diagnose you or push this on you, but what you wrote above sounds like anxiety/panic around losing your wife. And sounds like many things are reminding you of this possibility of loss, or reminding you of what you witnessed of others in their old age, and the panic process sets in. You catch a glimpse of crows-feet and BOOM, the panic train takes off all the way to her death and its like you are physically there in that time and you are swamped in this (anticipatory) despair. Your brain, in that moment, can't distinguish between "now" and "then", and is experiencing that future pain and loneliness as if it is actually happening. And your brain is doing this "time travelling" over and over and over, every single time you encounter a small reminder. And the more often you panic/worry, the more deeply etched that "route" to handling those triggers becomes until you can't control it anymore, your brain just begins automatically routing you down the panic lane for smaller and smaller related triggers. That is likely why now small glimpses of signs of aging are now so excruciating and upsetting whereas before you hardly noticed it.
EMDR can help reprocess the things that are causing the fear and then desensitize you to those triggers so your brain stops the overzealous routing to panic-town.

[BTDretire]

 Please remember that you said this, "I was an 8.5/10 on the happiness scale for the last number of years. Fast forward to today, anxiety and depression".
  Fast forward to the future and you can be at 8.5/10 again. Suicide hurts everyone around you, when in reality, just three months later everything could change and you would be back at 8.5/10. Please find a therapist, you certainly are in touch with your feelings, that should make things easier.
 Hoping the best for you.
 

[RedmondStash]

This is thorny stuff. I'm glad you're taking action; it sounds like you're doing the right things.

You're not alone. My spouse is 15 years my senior; I deal with thoughts of a projected future of being alone all the time. It sucks. But -- there is no guarantee that either of us will die first, or that we won't die together. That helps a little.

It sounds to me like you're going through an existential crisis -- "What's it all about, then, eh?" -- and those are hard, even with meds and therapy. I went through one when I dealt with a significant and potentially deadly medical condition (I'm fine now). It's basically the shift between believing you'll somehow live forever in glorious good health and realizing that someday, your life really will end. It can be terrifying. It took me several months to wrap my head around the shift in how I thought about the world. It's kind of like a snake trying to unhinge its jaw far enough to swallow an elephant. It takes some doing.

Over time, I basically ended up making peace with my own mortality, and my spouse's. I don't know what the future holds, in terms of our health or lifespan. What I know is that in this moment, I want to be happy. Mostly, I am happy. Change will come, I'll adapt, and I'll move forward. I am strong enough to survive until the day I don't.

One nice side effect of going through this process for me has been seeing older people more as people, and less as weird nursing-home zombies. I still feel like I'm 25, but I haven't been for decades. Everyone feels that way, wondering where the hell the wrinkles and gray hair came from, because we all still feel like who we think we've always been. I feel the humanity of all people more keenly, regardless of what they look like. There's some dignity in that.

On the other side of coming to terms with all this, I'm actually happier than I was before, because I'm no longer living in denial. It kind of takes the pressure off. In 100 years, the world will have forgotten that I ever existed; cemeteries are full of people who lived just as fully and passionately as I have, and no one remembers them now. And that's okay. I am here now, I try to do good in the world, I try to care for myself and the people around me. I won't leave a legacy; I don't need to. I just need to live my life now, and relax when I can, and try to create conditions for happiness. Like reaching out to a stranger in crisis on a financial forum. :)

I hope you find your way to making peace with your struggles, and back to a happier place.

[ericrugiero]

You need to be living for something.  Figure out a way to focus on doing something FOR someone else.  If you are just focused on yourself life can seem empty. 

Exercise is a good idea.  Even better if you can find an exercise you do with other people. 

Have you considered finding a good church?  That could help with several things including "the meaning of life", serving others, sense of community, etc. 

[Hirondelle]

First of all, I'm sorry you're feeling like this right now. It sounds like you're having a rough time.

The first thing that stands out to me: How is your social life beyond your family?

You mention your life was 8.5/10 a couple months ago and you're in a bad place now. Your old thread extensively discussed how your old neighbourhood was lively and the current one was much more quiet. You mention that talking about it and feeling you're not alone helps. You mention that working at home makes you feel isolated. You sound like a social person that needs more day-to-day interaction with others, one way or another. 

How many good friends do you have, beyond your wife, that you can turn to on days like this? How many people do you see regularly? How do you feel after a couple social events (the good ones, not the forced look-at-me-being-happy in a crowd you don't care about)?

Note; I'm not saying you shouldn't get therapy or that this will be the secret back to happiness, but to me your post sounds like a scream for a better social life with high-quality interactions.

[kork]

First of all, I'm sorry you're feeling like this right now. It sounds like you're having a rough time.

The first thing that stands out to me: How is your social life beyond your family?

You mention your life was 8.5/10 a couple months ago and you're in a bad place now. Your old thread extensively discussed how your old neighbourhood was lively and the current one was much more quiet. You mention that talking about it and feeling you're not alone helps. You mention that working at home makes you feel isolated. You sound like a social person that needs more day-to-day interaction with others, one way or another. 

How many good friends do you have, beyond your wife, that you can turn to on days like this? How many people do you see regularly? How do you feel after a couple social events (the good ones, not the forced look-at-me-being-happy in a crowd you don't care about)?

Note; I'm not saying you shouldn't get therapy or that this will be the secret back to happiness, but to me your post sounds like a scream for a better social life with high-quality interactions.

So many amazing replies and I'm rereading.

I want to answer this question though.

I have many acquaintances and several very, very good friends. I have 5 close friends who I've discussed this stuff with in some detail, most of whom I've known for several decades. I consider myself fortunate to have very good friends.

Currently, it's summertime. The kids are coming and going. One of my daughters has a friend over right now and they're hanging out.  I'm in the backyard, on may laptop soaking up a bit of sun.

In the summer, we spend the weekends at the cottage with friends and family. This last weekend, my wife and I went to a concert and met up with a friend for dinner (last minute) and she joined us for the concert. It was pleasant. But my mind was still projecting decades into the future.  I wasn't enjoying the moment itself.

A couple weeks ago we went to an airshow and went to an exhibit with a whole bunch of VR exhibits.  Went with a friend and her children. We  actually had a lot of fun with that one. Free food and drinks and then jets flying above.

So we do stuff and I'm not a recluse. But that's potentially part of the issue.  If I had a magic wand, I'd have 100 close friends and spend all of my time surrounded with people. Talking, chatting, interacting. I don't even need to be involved... Just the feeling of being present.

[chemistk]

As a disclaimer, I am neither in the same state (emotional, financial and likely physical) as you nor am I the same age as you.

But I would list loneliness and death as my top two fears - I cannot stand the stillness of silence. To this point in my life, it's never driven me to seek medication and counseling but probably would be the number one reason I would expect myself to need professional help.

To boot, I'm a serious introvert (in the classical sense - I get drained, heavily, from sustained social interaction). Balancing this with a fear of being alone is a challenge.

My simple mental exercise - I imagine what would happen if a disaster were to wipe me and my family off the face of the earth tomorrow. Something I have zero control over, and something I could never expect to happen. I imagine how small, within the context of natural history, my own fears and feelings are. How meaningless it would be to worry about whether I need to mow the lawn tomorrow if there's no lawn or lawnmower left. How incredibly frail this gift of life is. We didn't choose to come into existence, so why should we feel so entitled to worry about 'making the most of' our short time here. And in the darkness of that thought, I can re-center myself and shed the fear and pressure and panic of doing everything I think I deserve to do and instead just 'be'.

I don't know how or why but it's helped.

[Laserjet3051]

kork,

A lot of what you say resonates deeply with me; I can empathize with much of your problem and have faced many of those demons myself; fortunately I've been able to escape the self-reinforcing negative cycle you speak of. My best adice is to learn how to live in the moment, because that is all we really have. Easier said than done, yes. You must find your own way on this journey. BTW, 7 years ago, lorazepam nearly killed me, literally! I would urge you to avoid all benzodiazepenes and structurally related "Z" drugs. They often do far more harm than help; though I will admit, that is some cases an individual may benefit.  PM me if you would like to discuss further.

[dcheesi]

Sounds like rumination is a big part of the problem at the moment? You might want to look into CBT-based therapy, it's generally good for these sorts of issues.

In any case, I think some sort of therapy is definitely warranted here. You may want to keep carefully exploring medication alternatives as well.

[Loud Noises]

I applaud you for your willingness to bear it all in front of others, online or not.  That takes courage, and courage is exactly what will get you to where you want to go.

I am not a professional, but I have struggled with many of the things you've mentioned.  I felt compelled to respond but don't have a ton of time so forgive me for keeping this post on the shorter side.  I do mean all of it with the warmest of intentions.  Two primary recommendations:

1) Explore meditation.  Start simple - download a free app like Insight Timer and start doing guided beginner meditations with headphones on.  This is will touch on the mindfulness topic you wanted to explore but there are also definite medical benefits associated with meditation. 

2) Volunteer.  Do this ASAP.  Shake yourself out of your current mental construct and serve food to the homeless.  Help at an animal shelter.  Help with hospice care.  Anything.  You'll find that your feeling of "what's the point" might shift radically.  Don't wait for the perfect opportunity.  Take the first one!

As for the death topic, I don't want to go too far outside the boundaries of this forum but I will say this: read about it.  You can take the religious route, the spiritual route, or choose to study the extensive world of scientific research into near death experiences.  A few hundred hours of reading later, I have a feeling that you will begin to intuit a deeper "why" of our time between birth and death. 

This whole FIRE thing is catchy and all, but it's in the category of "what."  It does nothing to satisfy "why."  "Why" is the deeper quest, the one most never even attempt.  I hope that makes sense.

Sending you my best.

[eav]

I'll echo others (as a woman) on how much you seem to focus on your wife's age and appearance. I don't know if this is vanity or the reflection of your own thoughts on aging, but it's noticeable.

As someone with severe untreated depression and anxiety, the best thing I can do is be busy. I work out, clean the house, garden, read, anything.The worst thing I can do is be still and let my mind take over and paralyze me. Working from home full time was very isolating for me and let my bad thoughts take over with all the stillness, so I can sympathize with that.

Just know you have a support system!

[LaDeeDa]

Hi Kork,

You be already gotten tons of good advice and you're already got a great support team. One additional suggestion is to look into a life coach.

I found a life coach a good balance with therapy. A therapist will work on the underlying issues, but my life coach helped me take the steps to bring insight into action.

For example, you said in your ideal world you'd have 100 close friends, a life coach might help you brainstorm ways to make this happen and get you to take steps.

Thanks for sharing your journey. As a FI 40 something, it's resonated with me too. Those questions of 'now what' and pre-grieving the loss of a loved one are issues I'm working on (with my therapist and life coach!) as well.

[Hirondelle]

2) Volunteer.  Do this ASAP.  Shake yourself out of your current mental construct and serve food to the homeless.  Help at an animal shelter.  Help with hospice care.  Anything.  You'll find that your feeling of "what's the point" might shift radically.  Don't wait for the perfect opportunity.  Take the first one!

I think this is an excellent suggestion. You'll get an increase in social exposure from people in a very different place. It sounds like you've got a general community of friends/family around you, so I think volunteering may be one possible 'magic wand to 100 friends'. Plus it has an inherent purpose.

Also; low key activities with friends rather than properly planned events. I liked the description of how your daughter is at home with a friend and they hang out and you're there too. Could you do things with neighbours (BBQ? Park cleanup?) or go for walks or bike rides with friends? I'm the kind of person who feels lonely quickly even if I have enough friends, because I, just like you describe, like to be around people and do stuff with them. The low key activities where you do more than chatting but not an organized event usually feel best to me.

[kork]

Okay,  as an action item and at the suggestion of others (despite feeling a bit paralyzed and fearful of another letdown of a "connections" type event where I'm the only one) I'm moving forward with volunteering more.

There's a local group which focuses on on teaching people how to fix their own bikes.  My bicycle is 20 years old and can use some TLC. I've put 20k-30k km on it since I've owned it and I love her. I see some ironic humour here. There's the allure of the shiny new model that's lighter, thinner and faster but I love my bike. I want to keep my bike for a long, long time.  :-)

So the suggestion is to come in with my own bike to fix it up and if I like it, I can volunteer to help repair other bikes and keep older bikes on the road for people who can't afford shiny new ones.

One step at a time...

[Glenstache]

PTF... (and come back and read, and comment)

[kork]

Okay, I'm confused. There have been a number of suggestions to volunteer. I reached out to an organization to do so and they suggested the first step is to come in and see what it's about?

[Frankies Girl]

Okay,  as an action item and at the suggestion of others (despite feeling a bit paralyzed and fearful of another letdown of a "connections" type event where I'm the only one) I'm moving forward with volunteering more.

There's a local group which focuses on on teaching people how to fix their own bikes.  My bicycle is 20 years old and can use some TLC. I've put 20k-30k km on it since I've owned it and I love her. I see some ironic humour here. There's the allure of the shiny new model that's lighter, thinner and faster but I love my bike. I want to keep my bike for a long, long time.  :-)

So the suggestion is to come in with my own bike to fix it up and if I like it, I can volunteer to help repair other bikes and keep older bikes on the road for people who can't afford shiny new ones.

One step at a time...

Bike repair sounds really cool actually - this could be the start of a whole new direction for you. And it's already something relating to a thing you love doing, so very cool.




I know that event where you showed up and were the only one was a deep hurt. I would obsess over that myself and then use it as a stick to beat myself with - in terms of self worth/rejection type of garbage. I am always on the lookout to find fault with myself so I instantly assume the blame when things go wrong.

And that is the depression/anxiety talking every freaking time.

You went out and hit that meetup and the OTHER people were too scared/sick/depressed to go. That is about their personal issues, not yours. YOU were the one that should be proud of yourself for trying, especially considering how hard it was to get the momentum to make that first step. If you go forward with the bike thing - remember you are a brave, strong person that is fighting a pretty damned serious battle against the anxiety/depression - and this is a good thing to try. Even if you end up not liking it or anything glitchy happens - you are trying and that right there is fan-freaking-tastic..

[A Fella from Stella]

Being here will help, and I want to be a part of the solution by keeping the thread going.

An older wife by 8 years is not too much older. Statistically, you'll die about the same time, but you are dying inside while she's still got some good years left. I'm also 40-ish and was at a block party last week and talking with several women 5-10 years older than me, and if I was single, and they were single, we'd have been banging with great enthusiasm.

If I may impart a simple way to start your day, (1) state something you are grateful for, (2) make your bed, (3) eat a breakfast high in protein and fat, like eggs and avocado. If you want a big dose of extremely healthy fiber, add raw spinach.

[Gray Matter]

You've gotten lots of really good suggestions and you have a great attitude about experimenting, so I encourage you to continue with both the attitude and the willingness to try various things and give them a little time to work.

It does seem that rumination is high.  Rumination is part of both depression and anxiety, so finding ways to interrupt those ruminative thought patterns can be really helpful.  Therapy can help with this, e.g., CBT.  EMDR can relatively quickly lessen negative associations that you have with certain things (like aging/death).

There is also a type of therapy called "existential therapy," which could be useful, if you want to go deep into yourself and look these things (aging, death, meaning of life) square in the face and come to terms with them.

About 5 years ago, I felt myself feeling much the way you describe.  I was not fixated on aging or death or losing my partner, but I did feel like life was nothing more than putting one foot in front of the other and I felt lethargic, numb, half-dead already and not sure what the point was.  I've been on quite the journey since then, starting with a visit to my GP, who referred me for an ADHD assessment.  I do not have ADHD, but connecting with my therapist through that assessment process became the best thing that ever happened to me.  Therapy has been intense, but also fascinating and very rewarding.  I am now fully alive, engaged in life, happier than I've ever been or thought I could ever be, and excited about the rest of my life.  I honestly feel like the best years of my life are ahead of me (I'm 48), and that is decidedly NOT how I felt for much of my 30s and early 40s.

So...there is hope.  It's not always easy to know what will get you started on the path to things getting better, but just keep experimenting.  Your journey will not look like mine, and progress may be hard won (as mine has been), but it's so worth it.

[zygote]

3. Counselling - I've seen a counsellor to determine what kind of counselling I could benefit from. As a result, I'm looking into a mindfulness group workshop, another one regarding being self-critical and of course, individual counselling. Individual counselling is tricky because I'm not sure what type of counsellor (male, female, older, my age?) would be best and I'm afraid to fail.

I'm glad you've shared this. As you say, talking about things is always better than keeping them in. However, while we can offer suggestions, this level of anxiety and depression is above the pay grade of an internet forum (I say as someone who was in treatment for anxiety for years.) So I'm very glad you're exploring treatment!

I've highlighted the above quote because I think it's important. As you work with the psychiatrist and your GP, please give individual talk therapy a shot. Others in the thread have given good suggestions about what types to look for. But regardless, it's okay if you don't click with the first therapist you talk to. It's not a failure. It's normal to need to meet with a few counselors to find the right one that will fit you. I think it's worth the effort for you to do that. And definitely talk to your psychiatrist about other medication options. They will have a more nuanced picture than your GP. SSRIs were awful for me, but there are other types of meds you can take. Buspar is one, Wellbutrin is another. They work completely differently to SSRIs so they may be a better match for you.

Meanwhile, it may help to know that others struggle with the general existential crisis about what do after work and FIRE. There is a whole thread about it here: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/design-your-life!/

[Awesomeness]

First I just want to say I’m sorry you’re struggling and going through this. In the midst of all your pain you actually sound very good. What I mean by that is I witnessed my ex of 26 years self destruct and blow up our family over the course of 3 years of solid hell. I prayed so hard he’d get help and do something about it but he just drank and drank, cheated and was an abusive monster. To be fair he gave it a three week shot of counseling then went full on “fuck you and everyone else” in his choices. A million other issues were going on but it’s just nice to see someone who clearly has good character, doing what you’re doing, trying to figure this out without hurting those around you. You’re taking the hard route and it’s admirable.

I’m almost two years out, thick hell is over but it still hurts sometimes. My kids and I have no contact w him.  It was my biggest fear he’d die before me and now he’s gone. He left in the worse  way and the fucker is still alive.  We would have been much better off if he had just died, craziness. But life goes on. I sometimes can’t believe it but I accept it. I have an incredibly good life wout him, have bounds of love and respect from and for my kids and tons to be grateful and thankful for. I just took it slow, did regular therapy, felt the feels and grieved when it came.  It’s a rollercoaster.

Life isn’t easy and when you’ve lived long enough there’s a good chance you’ve gone through some heavy shit. So know you’re not along.  I don’t know if that comforts you but it helped me to reach out and I found comfort in others that went through the same thing I did.  See if you can find a depression support group or something.  Maybe someone here will PM you and you can have a buddy that knows what you’re dealing w, misery loves company, no pun intended. 

I’d second seeing some sort of spiritual or religious counselor, you’re searching for something and you may find some answers here that will help you but whatever you do, keep reaching out. I kept my mouth shut and hid things for too long. Not everyone will get it and that’s ok. But when you get help it just breathes life right back into you, it’s a great feeling to be heard, understood and know we aren’t alone.  Don’t give up.   

[blackomen]

And I thought I was crazy for freaking out over wasting a $300 plane ticket that I no longer needed but couldn't get a refund for.

[Habilis]

You're not alone, I am with you, we are with you. So glad you reached out, shared what is going on for you, and asked for help. We are with you.

Habilis

[PDXTabs]

4. Spousal Support - My wife is leaving work early every day to be with me and the kids. This is helping with the isolation that I was going through in the winter/spring months. Kids are on summer vacation and there are days that I feel like I can't even get out of bed. I'm in what feels like a "safe space" as they like to call it. She's spoken with her employer and they are sympathetic as mental health runs in their family as well. They "get it." This is a short term bandaid.

I struggle with a lot of the same issue that you do. I would strongly suggest that you read the book Lost Connections by Johann Hari.

Your list is pretty good, BTW. I would suggest no alcohol and potentially no caffeine.

[kork]

Thank-you for the replies.

I realize that to some, this type of behaviour and thinking may seem crazy. I look at myself from a different set of optics and  think the same thing myself.  I've even considered going in for a brain scan to see if a tumour is growing and pushing against something causing such irrational thought patterns.

Ruminating. Interesting. That seems to describe it very well. Chewing the same thoughts over and over and over again.

I do eat a good breakfast and I also make sure to add Omega 3 fats as well which is good for the brain. Physical health and fitness is something I do well.  I've lacked motivation recently but I still force myself to do something, even if as little as a 20-30 minute walk.

I feel for everyone here sharing their struggles with anxiety, depression and other mental health challenges. But  equally, thank-you for sharing.

The MLC thing.  Yes, I went through that about a decade ago.  It was also triggered in part of my realization my DW was about to turn 40. I got my motorcycle license, bought a guitar to take lessons, took the 100k sports car out for a test-drive and almost bought it. But I didn't destroy anything. It was 18 months of anger, frustration, anxiety, depression. To get out of the slump and out of desperation, I quit my job, sold the house and we relocated. The next near decade was good.  No anxiety flair ups, no depression...  Perhaps feeling a bit nostalgic and yearning for the past, but overall, I was pretty good. We realized "stuff" didn't matter much and started sprinting towards FIRE. I'm not suggesting I fixed the issue, but I'll take a decade of happy family with young children where they're very impressionable over taking the time trying to sort my $hit out and while making everyone's life miserable.

Bandaids are sometimes okay. It's like my doctor said 10 years ago "Kork, do you want your daughters to remember a stressed, angry daddy or do you want them to have a pleasant childhood with a loving father? Try the medication to take the edge off" and due to my childhood and very unpleasant divorce of my parents, I took the advice. However, I don't know if the medication worked because within a month, I'd quit my job, we listed the house for sale and moved. The change of situation immediately changed the possible outcome and my anxiety was no longer able to play things out.

The scary part of MLC (which is very real and devastating to families) is that MOST of them unfold exactly as you say Awesomeness. People laught at MLC...  Oh look, there's an old guy in a sports car, must be a MLC...  But it's absolutely devastating to families. Very, very real and quite possible the most detrimental financial situation someone will go through.  What's also interesting is that MLC's are more common in successful people... Very successful people but they follow the same pattern. Trying to reconnect with youth, blaming DW (sometimes DH), divorce is very common and there's almost always a younger woman involved (aka, the OW). Anger and hostility towards spouse and it comes from left field.

I'm not going down that road. Instead, I'm choosing to continue to love my wife and not see her as the reason for my suffering (which MANY  people do in MLC). I want to embrace the future without mourning the loss of the past. Age is all just a number, this I know. But it's back to that age dysphoria and perhaps over-attachment (which I've recently learned about). I feel as though I should be 48 and it often feels like 7.5 years was picked up and removed from my life.  Almost like a Coma. There's a discomfort there.  Almost a feeling of being robbed of my late teens and early 20's.  Not by my wife, but almost like I was asleep and that chapter of my life is missing.  I went from 18-25 overnight. I know this isn't true... Just trying to describe the feeling.

And this may be normal... but it's the damned anxiety that's just hammering it home, relentlessly. Death by mosquito bites. Lots of stuff going on in my head. Ruminating in the past and trying to solve problems of the future... All while the present is actually very good. I realize that I can't find the answers externally, but it's certainly very difficult to find them internally too (hence, the anxiety of trying to figure things out in my head).  Worst part is, my life, on paper is actually very good! It's all this made up shit in my brain that's picking it up, beating the crap out of it and throwing it out.

[BeanCounter]

PTF and get some good tips from others. Nearly two years ago I found myself an orphan at 40, and an only child (which I feel makes things worse since nobody else is going through the loss with me). Since then I've struggled with what I have called an existential crisis. I am planning to FIRE in May and I'm really hoping that not working helps me, but I'm also very scared it won't.

[kork]

PTF and get some good tips from others. Nearly two years ago I found myself an orphan at 40, and an only child (which I feel makes things worse since nobody else is going through the loss with me). Since then I've struggled with what I have called an existential crisis. I am planning to FIRE in May and I'm really hoping that not working helps me, but I'm also very scared it won't.

This is something that's been racing through my mind as well.  All the memories we gather and share,  how much more difficult they must become when there's nobody to share them with who was there. I haven't experienced it yet, but I've certainly imagined it.  My heart goes out to you BeanCounter.

[PJC74]

Kork, do you think you would feel any different if your wife was 8 years younger, and not older.

Reason I say this is one of my friends was unhappily married to his wife who was several years older than him. He never seemed to have any spunk, just went through the motions.

Fast fwd 4 years and he has since divorced and is engaged to a woman 9 years younger. Now all of a sudden he has all this vigor. They go rock climbing, surfing, you name it.

He eats healthy now, goes to gym etc. He's never looked better physically or mentally. It's like the younger woman was his fountain of youth pill.

[kork]

Kork, do you think you would feel any different if your wife was 8 years younger, and not older.

Reason I say this is one of my friends was unhappily married to his wife who was several years older than him. He never seemed to have any spunk, just went through the motions.

Fast fwd 4 years and he has since divorced and is engaged to a woman 9 years younger. Now all of a sudden he has all this vigor. They go rock climbing, surfing, you name it.

He eats healthy now, goes to gym etc. He's never looked better physically or mentally. It's like the younger woman was his fountain of youth pill.

Interesting question.  If my wife was 8 years younger, I suspect that I'd be more concerned about my aging and feel less in control.

With the two of us, age really is just a number. Our activities aren't limited by her age and she's only ever pulled out the "well, I am almost 50" card once.

They say that it's about "wanting what you have and not having what you want" and in my case, I want my wife. I want for her to remain healthy and vital and in good spirits. I don't want a new wife. I want my wife.

With that said, there is relief in my anxiety when I think about the possibility of us separating and going our separate ways.  It's not a good feeling, it's just relief from the anxiety of playing it out to the end.

My best friend's wife is 8 years younger than him.  So between the 4 of us, the age range is 32 - 48. There's no difference in activity or socializing or anything. Everyone just gets along really well and age (on all sides) isn't an issue.

[ADDED] - I'm happily married (At least, I'm pretty sure very, very sure I am?).  The issue is not with my wife, it's with me. In fact, even after 22 years together, my wife is wonderful and makes it difficult to dislike much about her!

[Adam Zapple]

Have you actually tried meditation or did you just attempt to go to the event and stop there?

[kork]

Have you actually tried meditation or did you just attempt to go to the event and stop there?

I've been working on diaphragmatic breathing and learning to calm my racing thoughts. Relaxing muscles and focusing on a fixed point in my mind (often a candle or picturing a number counting down slowly by 7's) while relaxing.

I have recently received information about a mindfulness and meditation workshop that is put on by the local health unit and I've enrolled in that but it doesn't start until September.

I'm also re-exploring the Hatha Yoga (I took Yoga classes a number of years ago which helped with situational anxiety) and learning to relax various muscles in my body one at a time.

[partgypsy]

My heart goes out to you. I'm sorry you are in pain. Maybe reach out to a higher power so you know it is not all in your hands. I am not religious but do during times read Taoism to focus my mind in a way that is beneficial to me (worrier). That life is transient ultimately, and to appreciate but not grab onto things too hard. 

I know this sounds silly, but when I was going through my breakup (probably the hardest thing I went through) things that really helped: walking in nature and writing notes about what I saw. Playing with my kids the sandwich/burrito game (we would take couch cushions, pillows and blankets, and then announce what we were making by layering things on top of the person. Playing music and dancing. Making up silly dance moves while dancing. And every day thinking about before I went to bed the things I was grateful for. I hope things get better.

[kork]

4. Spousal Support - My wife is leaving work early every day to be with me and the kids. This is helping with the isolation that I was going through in the winter/spring months. Kids are on summer vacation and there are days that I feel like I can't even get out of bed. I'm in what feels like a "safe space" as they like to call it. She's spoken with her employer and they are sympathetic as mental health runs in their family as well. They "get it." This is a short term bandaid.

I struggle with a lot of the same issue that you do. I would strongly suggest that you read the book Lost Connections by Johann Hari.

Your list is pretty good, BTW. I would suggest no alcohol and potentially no caffeine.

I've reserved it at the library (Still mustachian)!  There's a bit of a hold but shouldn't be too long.  I rarely drink (once a year?) and caffeine is minimal. I don't drink Coffee, never have.

[Just Joe]

Rumination is a dangerous thing. I occasionally get locked into that cycle and its hard to break out of. One thing that helps is a task that requires concentration. Riding a lawn mower or other repetitive task? I'm in trouble. Painting or welding however requires alot of attention and I don't have the ability to ruminate and work at the same time. Be careful what activities that you do that allows your brain to get stuck in that mental rut.

Also read up and consider CIRCLE of CONCERN and CIRCLE of INFLUENCE. Its been discussed here in the forums. There are those things you can recognize but not control or influence. Do you want to spend your energy on those things? Perhaps it is simplistic but it helped me with topics like the 24 hour news cycle. The sun will rise again tomorrow.

Lastly - thank you for baring your soul. This has been a learning experience and useful. DW and I have someone dear to us dealing with a version of similar issues. Your POV and those of others here has been insightful.

[kork]

Rumination is a dangerous thing. I occasionally get locked into that cycle and its hard to break out of. One thing that helps is a task that requires concentration. Riding a lawn mower or other repetitive task? I'm in trouble. Painting or welding however requires alot of attention and I don't have the ability to ruminate and work at the same time. Be careful what activities that you do that allows your brain to get stuck in that mental rut.

Also read up and consider CIRCLE of CONCERN and CIRCLE of INFLUENCE. Its been discussed here in the forums. There are those things you can recognize but not control or influence. Do you want to spend your energy on those things? Perhaps it is simplistic but it helped me with topics like the 24 hour news cycle. The sun will rise again tomorrow.

Lastly - thank you for baring your soul. This has been a learning experience and useful. DW and I have someone dear to us dealing with a version of similar issues. Your POV and those of others here has been insightful.

Interestingly, I spoke with my father in law about the circle of concern and the circle of influence two nights ago while at my SIL's. I read The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People a number of years ago by Steven Covey which speaks directly to this.  We were discussing news and how it's so difficult to consume especially in our own bubbles of news aggregation. So much deceit and lies and just awfulness with the powers in the world.

As for baring my soul. It's difficult. You put yourself out there and try to explain the best that you can with words (which is much different than conversation) and give other people a glimpse into your darkest, must vulnerable places. Many help, but others criticize and can focus in specific words written like they're lynch pins holding the entire thing up... But it's a balance of many pieces.

I'm well educated, I have a decent paying job and am closing in on the other side of FIRE. I'm 40, healthy, active and in excellent physical shape. Resting heart rate of 45-50bpm.  I've got a lot going for me but somewhere along the way, I lost myself... or perhaps never found myself in the first place. Or maybe, I'm not destined to find myself...

I never drank coffee (choice), never drank beer (choice I think partly due to alcoholic and terrifying father), married an older woman and became very responsible early in life. None of those things are regrets as the result is two amazing, wonderful children that I can't imagine life without. But what does the next "xx" number of years look like...

Thank-you everyone for your patience.

[kork]

How is your sleep?  I find my moods are much harder to cope with when my sleep has gone to pot.

Horrible sleep.  I wake up every night at 2-3am with extreme anxiety and panic. This started with the Zoloft and is now a pattern. Last night, I woke up crying after a dream involving my grandmother and my mom and red/green and white Willy Wonka nerds. Can't recall much of it, but it was most unpleasant.

I'm now sleeping in 1-2 hour chunks. No REM sleep for me. I hope this pattern breaks soon and this is where the diaphragmatic breathing is helping.

[CheapScholar]

Sounds to me like you need a 3 week vacation somewhere low key.  Or an awesome grand tour of Europe that might give you some kind of meaningful experience.  I’m not judging about the meds at all, but I do think a lot of these meds are over prescribed in our society.  If you feel you’re better off then good for you, but it never helps to get another professional opinion.  As for the abstinence from alcohol, I get that.  My family had substance abuse growing up and so I didn’t drink until 25.  I don’t get drunk, have a couple glasses of wine every weekend and I’m fine.  I’m glad I didn’t drink until after college, as I got a lot done and avoided stupid shit.  But the truth is just because your father had a drinking problem doesn’t necessarily mean you would if you had a drink. 

[BeanCounter]

PTF and get some good tips from others. Nearly two years ago I found myself an orphan at 40, and an only child (which I feel makes things worse since nobody else is going through the loss with me). Since then I've struggled with what I have called an existential crisis. I am planning to FIRE in May and I'm really hoping that not working helps me, but I'm also very scared it won't.

This is something that's been racing through my mind as well.  All the memories we gather and share,  how much more difficult they must become when there's nobody to share them with who was there. I haven't experienced it yet, but I've certainly imagined it.  My heart goes out to you BeanCounter.

Thank you.
Some things I've been thinking about as I read this thread-
-working from home sucks. Did that kick of your depression? People think it's great but it really sucks. It's all the boring work and none of the interacting with peers. I had a work from home gig and returned to the office.

-I think not working in an office and having work buddies is even harder for men. My DH has no desire to FIRE because he knows that much of his current socialization is built around work. What else do guys do together? Golf or some other sport? Get together to watch sports at a bar? I see my spouse struggle with social stuff at this point in life because he doesn't have time for sports other than his kids stuff and he doesn't want to go to bars to drink. If you feel like this is a big part of your struggle maybe some part time work or volunteering would be a big help?

-Maybe you feel like you've hit that point in life where you've achieved your goals and your supposed to glide. But instead of gliding it feels like a steady free fall into old age and eventually death? After working so hard on so many different goals it can be hard to readjust. And we are left feeling like "this is it? This is what I've been working so hard for". Maybe I'm projecting here. I have certainly felt this way many times.

You have a really good list of things you are working on. And that's really good your taking action! I haven't done therapy...yet but I've found some things that have helped me. They are-
-Remembering that feelings are just that, feelings. You may be feeling sad or hopeless but you ARE not sad and hopeless. You can do things that help change your feelings. A walk, a cup of tea, read a book, go on vacation etc. Feelings can change. It is important not to dwell and give them too much power. Often when I am feeling particularly down I read because it takes my mind out of the negative loop. It's hard to worry about the future if you're engrossed in a good book!

-Try to focus on one thing each day that feels good. Simple stuff. I may hate my time in the office working, but I'm looking forward to eating dinner with my kids and spouse. I'm looking forward to reading my book before bed. If you have nothing in the day your are looking forward to, create something! Go get yourself an ice cream! Anything.

-Cleaning out my mothers house and selling it was the saddest thing I have ever done. She cared so much about each and every thing in her house. That's when I really started feeling like "what's the point". You work so hard to build a life and someone just comes in and gets rid of it all as quickly as possible. And I realized that what really matters in life is your relationships with others. I now feel that is my purpose. We don't know how long we'll be here, and we can't control that. But we can use each day to build a relationship with someone else. For me that's mostly my kids or my spouse. But I also try really hard to smile at everyone I meet each day. Say hello, ask them how they are if I can. It's a small thing but maybe it might lift someone else up, I'd like to think so and if does then I've fulfilled my purpose for the day. I try really hard to make some family time at home where we enjoy each other. Good memories of their childhood is the best gift I can give my kids. These things are my purpose. Not my career, not my pile of money or house. Building relationships and making connections with others. I think that's what it is about.

-I know others have said it, but volunteer. It feels good. I'm going on a mission in October. I have plans to volunteer regularly at a couple places in town with my kids after I FIRE next year.

-Travel. It does that body good.

-Finally- just find ways to preoccupy your brain when it wants to go down that hole of anxiety

[MonkeyJenga]

Some things I've been thinking about as I read this thread-
-working from home sucks. Did that kick of your depression? People think it's great but it really sucks. It's all the boring work and none of the interacting with peers. I had a work from home gig and returned to the office.

Seconded. I have high social needs, and periods of working from home have been miiiiiserable. Even though I also hate waking up to an alarm and WFH allowed me to wake up later. My best schedule was working from home in the morning, then walking to the office for the second half of the day. Now in FIRE, I try to get out of the house every day and participate in lots of group events, because otherwise I'll sink into rumination and laziness. Does your job allow you to easily switch to an office? Or a WeWork maybe?

[We be free if we try]

I’m sorry you are experiencing this. I’m in a crisis of my own, but try to see it as a very challenging but ultimately steep-slope-learning-opportunity. I won’t repeat others’ good advice, but not sure anyone has suggested: you might look into what has occurred in your family of origin - with your mother, father, or grandparents, around aging, or around turning 40 (or 48) for them. Was aging very difficult for someone? Did someone die or divorce or develop a chronic illness at around 48? Or when you were the age of one of your kids (forgive me, I forgot whether you’ve got kids). Sometimes there is an unconscious trigger that, if unearthed, can point you in the direction of what feelings need to be unearthed, and gently held in compassion. Ultimately, this sounds like a spiritual problem - and the second half of life is nothing if not an invitation to discover what might be greater than our frighteningly helpless egos. Sending love to you.

[Awesomeness]

How is your sleep?  I find my moods are much harder to cope with when my sleep has gone to pot.

Horrible sleep.  I wake up every night at 2-3am with extreme anxiety and panic. This started with the Zoloft and is now a pattern. Last night, I woke up crying after a dream involving my grandmother and my mom and red/green and white Willy Wonka nerds. Can't recall much of it, but it was most unpleasant.

I'm now sleeping in 1-2 hour chunks. No REM sleep for me. I hope this pattern breaks soon and this is where the diaphragmatic breathing is helping.

I take an OTC from Costco. Kirkland Sleep Aide.  Half a dose keeps me asleep mostly for 5-6 hour stretches.

Sleep is so important. I also take 400mg of Magnesium which is helpful for anxiety.  Learned you can take Motrin for emotional pain. I’ve also got Lorazepam that I take once in a blue moon, it’s powerful stuff. I’ve found even nibbling on a pill or just the dust in the bottle to be enough to take the edge off.

It’s worth seeing your primary care doc and getting some bloodwork done. Low vitamin D can mess you up too. Would be nice if some simple supplements helped you feel and sleep better.

I will say something similar to what you said about suicide. My trauma has opened my eyes and given me compassion for others. Not for my ex though, he totally had every opportunity and reason to get better. But I’ve never felt that deep level of pain before and now understand more than ever why people self medicate w drugs, alcohol or choose suicide. Again kudos to you to figuring this out and moving forward. 

[PJC74]

As others have said for sleep and relaxation; take 250mg of L-thanine coupled with 500mg magnesium.

Also get your vitamin D levels tested . Low vitamin D levels can cause depression.

[Tracyl-5]

PTF and just to say SO much of what you and others have written resonates with me...  I've been going through extreme anxiety since I turned 40, which was four years ago.  I recently started taking CBD, and I feel like it has helped a lot.  I hope it helps you too!  Hang in there!

[Just Joe]

What would happen with some sort of "safe excitement" like video games or water skiing or a ride on a jetski? Would a little adrenaline do you any good?