FIRE coming up, PANIC ensues. A rant.

[andkar]

Hello everyone! Long time lurker here, so long in fact that me and my girlfriend reached our goal of ~$800 000 some time ago and FIRE date is April 27th.

I live a frugal yet luxurious life in Sweden. I have a five minute bike ride from work as an IT consultant, I make above median money of which I save 66-75%, got 6 weeks of paid vacation, I set my own hours, come and go as I want and got a nice office meters away from the free fruit and coffee. Great boss and coworkers. We don't have nor want a car or a kid. Some times I think I might be living one of the most relaxed life in the history of humankind.

Yet I can't wait to FIRE and April 27th seems so far away! Since I told my boss, I gave him 6 months notice, I've been feeling stressed out to the point I've felt chest pains and pressure on my skull. I've been stressed at work before and I had a bout of depression when I divorced a decade ago, but this is a level of magnitude worse.

I don't want to be one of those that drops dead right after retirement though. I'm only 41. I don't know why I feel this way, which is different from before when the causes were obvious. At work I now mostly tutor my replacement and chat with coworkers.

It's not OMY, because I can't stand another day at work. It's not the money, I've got great confidence in my WR and flexibility. Also, I am welcome back to work within a year if it doesn't work out, so safety is basically guaranteed.

I thought for a while it was fear of missing out. A few friends recommended bitcoin a year ago and I didn't listen. One of them cashed out near the top, good for him. I'm still not interested as my current plan is solid, but I can't deny it was at times hard to see people surpass me in less than a year while I saved for the better part of a decade. My anxiety level correlates pretty good with the price of bitcoin. That would be ridiculous though, I'm filthy rich, why would I care about other peoples money for?

Mostly ranting here, I don't get much understanding from (mostly indebted) friends. They think my problem is the best kind of first world problems, and they are right.

/Anders

[SwitchActiveDWG]

Don’t worry so much about Bitcoin... There’s someone in Vegas every night that makes enough money to cover most people’s net worth. You can’t beat luck.

[jlcnuke]

Sounds like anxiety. What are you planning on retiring "to"? Are you really confident that $800k will last for the rest of your life or is there some lingering doubt? Is there some other source of anxiety/stress in your life?

You're about to make a major life change. That's stressful, even if it's something you really want to do. If there's any additional stressors in your life (worry that you won't have enough, not sure what you'll do once you retire, unsure how you'll feel without having your job to identify with, family health issues, considering marrying that girlfriend of yours?, etc), those could exacerbate the stress associated with this major change in your life.

[thd7t]

Like jlcnuke said, you're jumping into the void.  It's exciting, but it's reasonable to be nervous.  You're going to do great! 

[andkar]

Don’t worry so much about Bitcoin... There’s someone in Vegas every night that makes enough money to cover most people’s net worth. You can’t beat luck.

Good point about Vegas :) I don't gamble but I once spent about a dollar in dimes on the cheapest slot machine at Freemont Street while getting free drinks from nice girls. I won a dollar too, so I think I got out ahead.

Sounds like anxiety. What are you planning on retiring "to"? Are you really confident that $800k will last for the rest of your life or is there some lingering doubt? Is there some other source of anxiety/stress in your life?

You're about to make a major life change. That's stressful, even if it's something you really want to do. If there's any additional stressors in your life (worry that you won't have enough, not sure what you'll do once you retire, unsure how you'll feel without having your job to identify with, family health issues, considering marrying that girlfriend of yours?, etc), those could exacerbate the stress associated with this major change in your life.

We're going to travel for a few years, bicycling around, mostly in Europe at first. We're pretty used to frugal travelling and enjoy spending weeks in our tent. If I lived to be 200 years old, I still wouldn't be able to do everything I want to do, so I'm not worried about being bored.

There were some acute health issues with my GF two years ago, which is why were going to stay in Europe, and also the main reason we don't delay retirement for more money. She had a successful surgery so all is well. Sure it would be nice to title myself a millionaire but that's not a rational reason. Anxiety isn't rational though, of course.

I can't really think of anything that I have to worry about and yet I worry, which in turn worries me. I tell myself it will fade as soon as I am free, but if that is not the case I don't know what to do.

I had my entire life figured out when I was 19. It's a shame I don't now when I'm 41 :)

[andkar]

Like jlcnuke said, you're jumping into the void.  It's exciting, but it's reasonable to be nervous.  You're going to do great!

Thanks! Yeah, it's not rational. Even just being Swedish pretty much covers any worst case scenario, or even mildly inconvenient scenarios. It's odd how it's never enough.

I doubt it's FOMO on bitcoin. What are your plans on April 28th and beyond? Any concrete plans/hobbies/activities or are you just wanting to escape from FT work?

I doubt it too, but sometimes I imagine my 10 million dollars I could have had. I've got millions of things I want to do. I'm going to need to pick and choose depending on time, not money. Except maybe climbing Mount Everest, that is mostly about money :)

We travel a lot, slowly and frugally, and that's what were going to do. First by bicycle, later probably by van whenever cheap electrical vans become available on the used market.

[Rosy]

Like jlcnuke said, you're jumping into the void.  It's exciting, but it's reasonable to be nervous.  You're going to do great!

Thanks! Yeah, it's not rational. Even just being Swedish pretty much covers any worst case scenario, or even mildly inconvenient scenarios. It's odd how it's never enough.

LOL, you had your whole life planned out when you were 19 and now you have completed that life plan at 41! Good for you - goal reached!
Now, you just need to actually execute your plan for ERE:) Right?

Chill out, it is normal to be anxious about a major life change. I bet within three months your former working life will have faded enough that you can't even envision entering the workforce ever again.
Enjoy the time of your life with your GF - none of us know what the future holds.
Imagine the worst case scenario and if you have a plan for that - well then, what are you worried about?:)

[andkar]

LOL, you had your whole life planned out when you were 19 and now you have completed that life plan at 41! Good for you - goal reached!
Now, you just need to actually execute your plan for ERE:) Right?

Chill out, it is normal to be anxious about a major life change. I bet within three months your former working life will have faded enough that you can't even envision entering the workforce ever again.
Enjoy the time of your life with your GF - none of us know what the future holds.
Imagine the worst case scenario and if you have a plan for that - well then, what are you worried about?:)

Exactly, what am I worried about? :)

I don't know. I hope it passes the day I quit. After stressful times at work I usually take a break and fly somewhere and I've noticed as the plane takes off, the veins in my temple suddenly stops pulsating. That can't be healthy :) I hope something similar will happen in May.

Was in Florida last October, you've got nice weather when it's not hurricane season. Drove to the keys, the cleanup was impressive.

[Sibley]

Yes, sounds like anxiety. However, if you're getting chest pains from it, that's pretty extreme. Implement whatever self-care/de-stressing routines you have, develop them if you don't have them, and I encourage you to see a doctor/therapist. Yes, it's normal to be anxious when you're coming up to a massive change like you are, but when you're getting physical manifestations like chest pains that's a sign that you don't want to ignore.

[andkar]

Yes, sounds like anxiety. However, if you're getting chest pains from it, that's pretty extreme. Implement whatever self-care/de-stressing routines you have, develop them if you don't have them, and I encourage you to see a doctor/therapist. Yes, it's normal to be anxious when you're coming up to a massive change like you are, but when you're getting physical manifestations like chest pains that's a sign that you don't want to ignore.

Yes I was a bit worried. The chest pains have subsided, it was at worst in December now it feels more like a permanent flu or something. Deep breaths helps. Last time I felt something similar, when I divorced, the doctor just prescribed some pills that helped initially but it didn't last. Rather, getting rid of my ridiculously large and expensive house, the car and all the crap that I owned made the difference. That's when I realised what was important and what wasn't. I don't miss a thing.

[Sibley]

Yes, sounds like anxiety. However, if you're getting chest pains from it, that's pretty extreme. Implement whatever self-care/de-stressing routines you have, develop them if you don't have them, and I encourage you to see a doctor/therapist. Yes, it's normal to be anxious when you're coming up to a massive change like you are, but when you're getting physical manifestations like chest pains that's a sign that you don't want to ignore.

Yes I was a bit worried. The chest pains have subsided, it was at worst in December now it feels more like a permanent flu or something. Deep breaths helps. Last time I felt something similar, when I divorced, the doctor just prescribed some pills that helped initially but it didn't last. Rather, getting rid of my ridiculously large and expensive house, the car and all the crap that I owned made the difference. That's when I realised what was important and what wasn't. I don't miss a thing.

For your physical health though, if a temporary anti-anxiety medicine is needed, so be it. Long term "permanent flu" can be incredibly damaging. Really make sure you're doing whatever is needed to take care of yourself right now, and if it doesn't get better get into a doctor.

[andkar]

For your physical health though, if a temporary anti-anxiety medicine is needed, so be it. Long term "permanent flu" can be incredibly damaging. Really make sure you're doing whatever is needed to take care of yourself right now, and if it doesn't get better get into a doctor.

You are right, I probably have endured for too long because I'm so close to FIRE. I'll try to get my act together this weekend and if it doesn't get better real soon, getting an appointment. Thanks for replying.

A friend said he turned around less than 100 yards from the peak of Kilimanjaro, due to altitude sickness. I would probably have fought my way up anyway, I'm not that good at reading those signals.

[nemesis]

You got to enjoy the journey, not just the destination. 

I'm close to your age, have the best work ever, hit my goals of FI, but I'm enjoying whatever I do at the moment.  I don't forget about the present while only thinking about the future.  The future may never come.

I faced the decision of RE and doing absolutely whatever I want. But I realized I'm already doing whatever I want, and getting paid good money for it. 

You have to appreciate what you have today, to appreciate the rewards of tomorrow.  If life was super easy and you could FIRE without effort, FIRE would be meaningless.  It takes a little bit of struggle to enjoy what you get. 

I think you've over-analyzed your situation and are also ignoring a very nice present for a great tomorrow.  Once you get there to April 27th you may find a huge letdown, because life will still continue as normal, and you will continue to feel like normal.

Congrats on getting to where you are at.  Focus on the present.  Forget about April 27th.  Enjoy the last few weeks of work, because you may never have it again.

[Sibley]

For your physical health though, if a temporary anti-anxiety medicine is needed, so be it. Long term "permanent flu" can be incredibly damaging. Really make sure you're doing whatever is needed to take care of yourself right now, and if it doesn't get better get into a doctor.

You are right, I probably have endured for too long because I'm so close to FIRE. I'll try to get my act together this weekend and if it doesn't get better real soon, getting an appointment. Thanks for replying.

A friend said he turned around less than 100 yards from the peak of Kilimanjaro, due to altitude sickness. I would probably have fought my way up anyway, I'm not that good at reading those signals.

No more waiting. You've already been waiting. Get into the doctor. You not good at listening to your body, and it's been screaming loudly enough for you to hear it. It's doctor time now. Go. (Yes, I'm scolding you, but if that's what you need to take care of yourself, so be it.)

Hope you're feeling better soon.

[nemesis]

For your physical health though, if a temporary anti-anxiety medicine is needed, so be it. Long term "permanent flu" can be incredibly damaging. Really make sure you're doing whatever is needed to take care of yourself right now, and if it doesn't get better get into a doctor.

You are right, I probably have endured for too long because I'm so close to FIRE. I'll try to get my act together this weekend and if it doesn't get better real soon, getting an appointment. Thanks for replying.

A friend said he turned around less than 100 yards from the peak of Kilimanjaro, due to altitude sickness. I would probably have fought my way up anyway, I'm not that good at reading those signals.

Watch this before you take any medication - https://www.tedmed.com/talks/show?id=299419   Personally unless I was really sure medication was warranted, I'd be doing a lot of other things to try to cope.  How about seeing a psychologist or psychotherapist? 

Taking pills for a mental condition might be too drastic.  Pills have their own horrible side effects.  I don't look for an answer in a pill for mental issues, until I've exhausted all other options.

[andkar]

You got to enjoy the journey, not just the destination. 

I'm close to your age, have the best work ever, hit my goals of FI, but I'm enjoying whatever I do at the moment.  I don't forget about the present while only thinking about the future.  The future may never come.

I faced the decision of RE and doing absolutely whatever I want. But I realized I'm already doing whatever I want, and getting paid good money for it. 

You have to appreciate what you have today, to appreciate the rewards of tomorrow.  If life was super easy and you could FIRE without effort, FIRE would be meaningless.  It takes a little bit of struggle to enjoy what you get. 

I think you've over-analyzed your situation and are also ignoring a very nice present for a great tomorrow.  Once you get there to April 27th you may find a huge letdown, because life will still continue as normal, and you will continue to feel like normal.

Congrats on getting to where you are at.  Focus on the present.  Forget about April 27th.  Enjoy the last few weeks of work, because you may never have it again.

I agree and I usually do focus on the present and I am enjoying the journey. The ride up to this point have been absolutely awesome and I haven't felt deprived in any way. I haven't delayed anything I felt like doing and I have the greatest girlfriend.

It's not that, it's something else. I've never felt like this even during times that were hard in an objective sense.

My job is arguably great, but I really hope FIRE won't be a huge letdown :)

[andkar]

No more waiting. You've already been waiting. Get into the doctor. You not good at listening to your body, and it's been screaming loudly enough for you to hear it. It's doctor time now. Go. (Yes, I'm scolding you, but if that's what you need to take care of yourself, so be it.)

Hope you're feeling better soon.

Ok ok, I will :) Thanks.

[andkar]

Watch this before you take any medication - https://www.tedmed.com/talks/show?id=299419   Personally unless I was really sure medication was warranted, I'd be doing a lot of other things to try to cope.  How about seeing a psychologist or psychotherapist? 

Taking pills for a mental condition might be too drastic.  Pills have their own horrible side effects.  I don't look for an answer in a pill for mental issues, until I've exhausted all other options.

Some story, great vid!

When I divorced I was prescribed venlafaxine that helped. I didn't notice any side effects but the effect faded quickly and they increased the dose over and over until maximum was reached. When the divorce was settled and my stuff sold I rather quickly weaned off and was happier than ever.

[andkar]

OP I FIREd at your age and a lot of what you're feeling is normal I think. There can be a lot of anxiety with any huge change and quitting a job and living off savings for possibly the rest of your life is a massively huge change. I think most pre-FIRE people expect that they will feel giddy happy excitement when about to FIRE (and you do) but there can be a lot of anxiety, fear, even confusion and conflict about your choice once actually about to do it. I say relax, go workout to relieve stress and understand that your feelings are normal.

In addition you may subconsciously, since you've been divorced,  be worried about having enough money in the event you and GF break up and split assets since it sounds like they were earned jointly. I think most divorced people (like me) have those thoughts and worries about sharing finances -especially once retired early - swirling around in the back of our brains when it comes to relationships once FIREd and dependant solely on our stash.

Sounds reassuring.

The money were earned jointly. I started saving a year before I met her and I make a bit more so I contributed maybe about $100k more than she did. I also used to have about $25k in student loans that I have paid off. She still has ~$10k, but the interest is currently 0.13% (zero point thirteen, not a typo) so we're not paying it off quite yet.

I don't worry about what might happen if we split up, I don't think. She likes to pay her own bills :)

[okits]

You've read through livingafi.com?  He has posts about talking through mental-readiness for ER (both self-talk and with a counsellor).  Great blog, in general.

[andkar]

You've read through livingafi.com?  He has posts about talking through mental-readiness for ER (both self-talk and with a counsellor).  Great blog, in general.

No I haven't. I'll check it out, thanks for the suggestion!

[JerseyGrrrl]

I went through a bout of anxiety last year when I started seriously considering FIRE-ing this year. There didn't seem to be any real rational reason for it, but I couldn't shake it. My head actually felt calm, but I had a tightness in my chest, or "butterflies" almost all the time.

I went to a couple of therapy sessions, but I just felt stupid complaining that basically I was anxious because I was rich. I don't think it helped much, but it didn't hurt either, so don't let my experience stop you from going.

Eventually it faded. It may start up again when I actually give notice and/or when my final day approaches. Like others said, it's pretty normal, but you don't want to let it get too out of hand.

And I second checking out livingafi.com. He did a great job describing all the feelings many of us go through.

[southern granny]

My husband retired 2 years ago.  We are far from rich, but we had enough to maintain our lifestyle.  Even though he was desperate to retire he was so stressed.  He couldn't sleep, his blood pressure was up, and showed some signs of depression.  When he finally clocked out for the last time, I think it took him about 5 minutes to adjust.   Maybe it was a month and he saw that all the bills were paid and there was still food on the table.  Anyway,  he loves it.  When people say " but what do you do all day", he says "whatever I feel like doing".  He is so much happier now.  His health is better and he is easier to live with. No regrets from either one of us.

[andkar]

I went through a bout of anxiety last year when I started seriously considering FIRE-ing this year. There didn't seem to be any real rational reason for it, but I couldn't shake it. My head actually felt calm, but I had a tightness in my chest, or "butterflies" almost all the time.

I went to a couple of therapy sessions, but I just felt stupid complaining that basically I was anxious because I was rich. I don't think it helped much, but it didn't hurt either, so don't let my experience stop you from going.

Eventually it faded. It may start up again when I actually give notice and/or when my final day approaches. Like others said, it's pretty normal, but you don't want to let it get too out of hand.

And I second checking out livingafi.com. He did a great job describing all the feelings many of us go through.

Exactly my feelings. I don't feel sad or anything, just a crippling tightness cramping my entire body while also feeling like a spoiled brat for complaining. Objectively I don't have a single thing to worry about!

I read some blog posts at livingafi. Good stuff, some stuff describe my situation perfectly, like this sentence in https://livingafi.com/2015/01/13/quitting-the-cushy-job-2/ : There are even times when it provides some small bits of satisfaction, perhaps a couple of times a week, as I solve a tricky technical problem or automate an irritating task.

That is what makes my job still bearable. The meetings, workplace politics, constantly being behind schedule and the stress of being someone who is probably promoted to his level of incompetence, or maybe I just suffer from Impostor syndrome, those are things that are eating me from the inside.

I think it would have been healthy to change jobs more often, and I probably would have if my plan wasn't FIRE and having a career don't mean anything to me.

[andkar]

My husband retired 2 years ago.  We are far from rich, but we had enough to maintain our lifestyle.  Even though he was desperate to retire he was so stressed.  He couldn't sleep, his blood pressure was up, and showed some signs of depression.  When he finally clocked out for the last time, I think it took him about 5 minutes to adjust.   Maybe it was a month and he saw that all the bills were paid and there was still food on the table.  Anyway,  he loves it.  When people say " but what do you do all day", he says "whatever I feel like doing".  He is so much happier now.  His health is better and he is easier to live with. No regrets from either one of us.

Sounds great, and reassuring! I see myself walking out of here, taking a deep breat, letting the air out of my lungs, and feeling a calm washing over my body!

[SachaFiscal]

Try doing some slow deep breathing when you get your anxiety pains. And maybe try some mindfulness training. There is free info on the internet on mindfulness stress reduction. Then if it doesn’t go away right after you retire don’t be worried. I was stressed too before I retired and there was some residual stress afterward that was amplified because I didn’t have work to distract me. But it fades over time and now 8 months later I hardly feel it (only every once in a while if I meet up with old co workers).  Everyone’s timeline is different but I think what you are feeling is normal and perhaps since your life struggles haven’t been too bad your mind is focusing on this anxiety which it is not used to and it is making seem it worse than it needs to be. Just trust that in time your worries will fade.

[MrThatsDifferent]

Congrats on your achievements, now, listen to your body. Something is happening with you and I implore you to not do the guy thing and ignore it. Do these two things: go to the doctors and get a full work up, get everything checked and keep yourself physically healthy.  Next, find a therapist to have a couple sessions with, 3-6 min. You’ll be surprised how helpful they can be. Talk about the bitcoin stuff, or envy or whatever the hell you want. Just talk.

[jeroly]

Sure it would be nice to title myself a millionaire but that's not a rational reason.

Hey that 800k is in Euros, right?
So go ahead and title yourself a dollar millionaire!

[andkar]

Hey that 800k is in Euros, right?
So go ahead and title yourself a dollar millionaire!

Nah it's dollars. We've got about 7M SEK (Swedish Krona) total assets, which in todays exchange rate comes out to 852 180 USD.

1 USD is about 8:20 SEK, but since I became mustachian it has been as low as 6:50 so I'll probably be a dollar millionaire at some point :)

[andkar]

Try doing some slow deep breathing when you get your anxiety pains. And maybe try some mindfulness training. There is free info on the internet on mindfulness stress reduction. Then if it doesn’t go away right after you retire don’t be worried. I was stressed too before I retired and there was some residual stress afterward that was amplified because I didn’t have work to distract me. But it fades over time and now 8 months later I hardly feel it (only every once in a while if I meet up with old co workers).  Everyone’s timeline is different but I think what you are feeling is normal and perhaps since your life struggles haven’t been too bad your mind is focusing on this anxiety which it is not used to and it is making seem it worse than it needs to be. Just trust that in time your worries will fade.

Congrats on your achievements, now, listen to your body. Something is happening with you and I implore you to not do the guy thing and ignore it. Do these two things: go to the doctors and get a full work up, get everything checked and keep yourself physically healthy.  Next, find a therapist to have a couple sessions with, 3-6 min. You’ll be surprised how helpful they can be. Talk about the bitcoin stuff, or envy or whatever the hell you want. Just talk.

Thanks for the replies. I've got an appointment.

It has caught me by suprise and it's annoying I can't shake it. I've lived a pretty carefree life but I'd still think that "Being so rich I don't have to work anymore" should rank lower than a divorce or losing a best friend to leukemia on the anxiety scale. But apparently not.

[jeroly]

Hey that 800k is in Euros, right?
So go ahead and title yourself a dollar millionaire!

Nah it's dollars. We've got about 7M SEK (Swedish Krona) total assets, which in todays exchange rate comes out to 852 180 USD.

1 USD is about 8:20 SEK, but since I became mustachian it has been as low as 6:50 so I'll probably be a dollar millionaire at some point :)

OK but in Vietnamese dong... you're a multibillionaire ;-)

[Missy B]

All change can cause stress - it's inherent. Most people don't do great with change, even when its 'good'.
I think that after the adjustment period to the new reality, the physical symptoms will abate.
As someone else mentioned, be very careful about drugs. Drugs meant to treat anxiety actually cause it as a side-effect, as well as sleep disorders.

[dude]

Hello everyone! Long time lurker here, so long in fact that me and my girlfriend reached our goal of ~$800 000 some time ago and FIRE date is April 27th.

I live a frugal yet luxurious life in Sweden. I have a five minute bike ride from work as an IT consultant, I make above median money of which I save 66-75%, got 6 weeks of paid vacation, I set my own hours, come and go as I want and got a nice office meters away from the free fruit and coffee. Great boss and coworkers. We don't have nor want a car or a kid. Some times I think I might be living one of the most relaxed life in the history of humankind.

Yet I can't wait to FIRE and April 27th seems so far away! Since I told my boss, I gave him 6 months notice, I've been feeling stressed out to the point I've felt chest pains and pressure on my skull. I've been stressed at work before and I had a bout of depression when I divorced a decade ago, but this is a level of magnitude worse.

I don't want to be one of those that drops dead right after retirement though. I'm only 41. I don't know why I feel this way, which is different from before when the causes were obvious. At work I now mostly tutor my replacement and chat with coworkers.

It's not OMY, because I can't stand another day at work. It's not the money, I've got great confidence in my WR and flexibility. Also, I am welcome back to work within a year if it doesn't work out, so safety is basically guaranteed.

I thought for a while it was fear of missing out. A few friends recommended bitcoin a year ago and I didn't listen. One of them cashed out near the top, good for him. I'm still not interested as my current plan is solid, but I can't deny it was at times hard to see people surpass me in less than a year while I saved for the better part of a decade. My anxiety level correlates pretty good with the price of bitcoin. That would be ridiculous though, I'm filthy rich, why would I care about other peoples money for?

Mostly ranting here, I don't get much understanding from (mostly indebted) friends. They think my problem is the best kind of first world problems, and they are right.

/Anders

Embrace the panic. You've been living, by your own admission, a very charmed life. You need something to challenge that, a shock to the system, some kind of crucible in which to forge a stronger version of yourself. Accept the challenge.

[andkar]

Thanks for the encouragement. It has subsided quite a bit, now it feels more like "normal" stress, the kind I often get when a deadline approaches. I'm always there at the last second.

I usually don't have any problem with change, I am quite easily bored by routine.