Author Topic: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI  (Read 4356 times)

REatc

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 83
FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« on: October 05, 2020, 07:54:59 PM »
I had a realization today that might change my FI plans. I need other opinions about these hypothetical but very real and different situations. I understand a lot can and will change over 20 years.

All based on paid off home and 35-40k annual spending.

FI: Age 35 1M net worth.
fatFI: Age 40 1.6M
infiniteFI: Age 48 3M net worth + 5-6k pension/month + healthcare coverage for life

Realistically I wouldn’t quit my job as soon as I hit FI, it would be somewhere around fatFI. But doing the math today, and realizing about the pension amount and healthcare for life, wouldn’t it make sense to gut out 8 years to double your stash, have a pension that pays for more than your annual spend, and cover myself and family for life healthcare wise? That would be way more money than I would ever need, I could focus on that point a legacy I’d like to promote and leave, I could do real good in the world from my finances. Set up scholarships, donate to youth programs, that sort of thing. All I have been thinking about as far as FI or fatFI has been all for myself, and protecting my sacred stash. If I was infiniteFI, I think I would have no choice but to start giving it away to things I deem worthy.

 I could also buy new Porsche lol

Chrissy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1500
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Chicago
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2020, 08:17:52 PM »
I had a realization today that might change my FI plans. I need other opinions about these hypothetical but very real and different situations. I understand a lot can and will change over 20 years.

All based on paid off home and 35-40k annual spending.

FI: Age 35 1M net worth.
fatFI: Age 40 1.6M
infiniteFI: Age 48 3M net worth + 5-6k pension/month + healthcare coverage for life

Realistically I wouldn’t quit my job as soon as I hit FI, it would be somewhere around fatFI. But doing the math today, and realizing about the pension amount and healthcare for life, wouldn’t it make sense to gut out 8 years to double your stash, have a pension that pays for more than your annual spend, and cover myself and family for life healthcare wise? That would be way more money than I would ever need, I could focus on that point a legacy I’d like to promote and leave, I could do real good in the world from my finances. Set up scholarships, donate to youth programs, that sort of thing. All I have been thinking about as far as FI or fatFI has been all for myself, and protecting my sacred stash. If I was infiniteFI, I think I would have no choice but to start giving it away to things I deem worthy.

 I could also buy new Porsche lol

Sure!  48 is still VERY young to retire, and you could do a lot of good while also safeguarding your family's future.

AO1FireTo

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 156
  • Location: Toronto
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2020, 08:51:47 PM »
I had a realization today that might change my FI plans. I need other opinions about these hypothetical but very real and different situations. I understand a lot can and will change over 20 years.

All based on paid off home and 35-40k annual spending.

FI: Age 35 1M net worth.
fatFI: Age 40 1.6M
infiniteFI: Age 48 3M net worth + 5-6k pension/month + healthcare coverage for life

Realistically I wouldn’t quit my job as soon as I hit FI, it would be somewhere around fatFI. But doing the math today, and realizing about the pension amount and healthcare for life, wouldn’t it make sense to gut out 8 years to double your stash, have a pension that pays for more than your annual spend, and cover myself and family for life healthcare wise? That would be way more money than I would ever need, I could focus on that point a legacy I’d like to promote and leave, I could do real good in the world from my finances. Set up scholarships, donate to youth programs, that sort of thing. All I have been thinking about as far as FI or fatFI has been all for myself, and protecting my sacred stash. If I was infiniteFI, I think I would have no choice but to start giving it away to things I deem worthy.

 I could also buy new Porsche lol

Sure!  48 is still VERY young to retire, and you could do a lot of good while also safeguarding your family's future.

Agree 48 is still pretty young.  Does the pension pay out any sooner than 48?  Can you take a lump sum?  A pension that pays that much would need to have a lump sum value of over $1M @48?  Perhaps you cash it in earlier and that grows your Net Worth even faster.

Zikoris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4551
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Vancouver, BC
  • Vancouverstachian
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2020, 09:00:58 PM »
You ask if it makes sense. Well, I don't think you can really logic your way through this one, because there just isn't one right answer. You can always come up with a reason to work longer - so you can buy this, feel that, etc.

In the end, it's eight years of your life. I wouldn't make the trade, personally. There would be nothing I could buy that would be worth that sacrifice.

Sandi_k

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1609
  • Location: California
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2020, 09:34:51 PM »
Yes. Lifetime healthcare for you and your spouse  in the era of Trump is absolutely worth sticking it out until age 48, IMO.

PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2020, 09:40:52 PM »
You ask if it makes sense. Well, I don't think you can really logic your way through this one, because there just isn't one right answer. You can always come up with a reason to work longer - so you can buy this, feel that, etc.

In the end, it's eight years of your life. I wouldn't make the trade, personally. There would be nothing I could buy that would be worth that sacrifice.

I concur. With your FatFIRE you could move to Portugal or someplace similar and after five years have socialized healthcare while your savings compounded. However, if you want to be a philanthropist working another eight years might* make sense. That's a personal question. Either way you are about a decade ahead of me so congrats!

* - don't forget that any defined benefit pension can be modified if the company goes bankrupt. Plenty of airline pilots learned that the hard way.

julia

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 130
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2020, 06:19:42 AM »
A year ago, I would have said the same thing: It’s ONLY 8 years and then I’ll have sooo much money (more than I know what to do with). We are 26, and have 6 years to go until FIRE and now even that is way too long. You never know what can happen in those 8 years. It’s better to live life to the fullest and see what comes your way rather than slaving longer just to have infinite money. Unless you enjoy your lifestyle of course.

wageslave23

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1766
  • Location: Midwest
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2020, 06:27:46 AM »
Tough call.  I think I'd plan on 48 but if the market and your life turn out as well or better than you expect, then you could re-evaluate and pull the plug early.  Its a good spot to be in.  And too soon to know which will be better.

Much Fishing to Do

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1141
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2020, 07:06:47 AM »
Yep.  And you could hit SuperInfinite+ FI at 62:  Worth $10M+, start collecting SS on top of huge pension, etc.  Any kids you happen to have between now and then would also be FI if you choose, and you could do a lot more giving than with a measly $3M.

I think its perfectly reasonable to view all these options as open, especially if you really love what you do.  In the end keep your spending low and all these will stay options instead of the usual migration most good earners see with lifestyle inflation.... that eventually pushes all of these levels back 8-12 years.

The great thing is every day after FI you get to remake your choice as to which level is worth getting to.  I never planned to get much past FI, but then my business kinda took over and before I could gracefully bow out I was at FatFI

jrhampt

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2022
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Connecticut
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2020, 07:42:21 AM »
Agree that it really depends on how much you like/dislike your job and how much it interferes with your life and other priorities.  My job gives me a lot of free time and I generally enjoy it, so when I went to 100% work from home several years ago, it alleviated my desire to retire super early.  Now I am basically FI, but not Fat FI.  Because I don't dislike my job, it pays well, and it isn't a giant time suck, I'm planning to work for as long as that remains true and see how the healthcare situation develops.

Just Joe

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6797
  • Location: In the middle....
  • Teach me something.
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2020, 07:59:05 AM »
Yes. Lifetime healthcare for you and your spouse  in the era of Trump is absolutely worth sticking it out until age 48, IMO.

I agree with Sandi_k.

toocold

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 49
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2020, 08:19:53 AM »
I always thought that target investment should be: (annual spend - passive income) / 4%.  If your passive income is above annual spend, then your investment can be 0.   That's how most people use to retire with a defined benefits plan, so they never had to worry about how much money they saved. 

I replicated this by having my rentals (which are semi-passive) generate enough to pay for our annual expenses.  Everything else is all cushion, so I guess I'm infiniteFI?

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 17592
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2020, 08:28:36 AM »
Yes. Lifetime healthcare for you and your spouse  in the era of Trump is absolutely worth sticking it out until age 48, IMO.

I agree with Sandi_k.

Well,  for perspective the extra $600k between now and age 40 would throw off $24k/year, indexed to inflation. 
That's right on the nose for what a typical family health care plan costs including premium, deductible and OOP costs.
So there's that.

Is it worth an additional 8 years to have a lot more money?  Like the other posters said... depends on how much you like your job.  I wouldn't do anything I didn't enjoy for 8 years just to have extra month.

Let's also not forget that it this isn't an all-or-nothing proposition.  OP could quit their profession and do some rewarding work for less month elsewhere... part time or full time.  If I hated my job and had $1.6MM I definitely would quit in my early 40s and consider doing something less stressful and more rewarding with my life. 

Eight years... yowsers.  How much is eight years in your prime worth to you?  You'd better love what you are doing. 
There's more than one way to establish a legacy.  Spending a few decades working for a not-for-profit will arguably do more good than donating a couple million$ lifetime.

Fomerly known as something

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1642
  • Location: CA
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2020, 08:56:08 AM »
Sounds like you are a federal employee, SCE.  So am I in fact our money timelines are incredibly similar.  I am 58 months from retirement with my 25 years.  I plan to gut it out, but being at comfortableFI, I don’t consider your 1.6 FAT, it helps me to know I could stop.  I’m staying for healthcare and certainty.  I don’t have to worry if I get a preexisting condition, or what happens to the market with my pension. In the end even though I’d likely be fine quitting today financially, I wouldn’t sleep well at night.

What do I want to do with the excess Instead, in part give it away generously to things I care about but I’d have to cut out if I quit early.  I know 40 years from now I’ll be able to “afford” a good old folks home.   I also allow myself some luxury I wouldn’t otherwise have done.  I now drink $10-15 bottles of wine instead or boxed.  While boxed is fine, I don’t like having the same variety open for a whole month.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 08:58:15 AM by Fomerly known as something »

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 17592
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2020, 09:07:26 AM »
@REatc - everyone here can opine about what they would do, but if you want better information about your personal circumstances you should do a full case study. 

There are too many variables otherwise. 

bigblock440

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 262
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2020, 09:09:58 AM »
Can't answer what makes sense, it all depends on what you think "enough" is, and how much is worth trading 13 years of your life for.  What will you do with the excess, and is it worth it to you?

SunshineGirl

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 768
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2020, 11:33:50 AM »
It's a fun thing to ponder! I have a spreadsheet that goes out twenty years and annually track savings/investments, social security and pension "if I take it now" amounts, annual expenses, what annual expenses I'm aiming for when our one-earner family stops work.

So much changes in life. What I would have said we'd do now twenty years ago is different than what we're actually doing. I have found that BEING FI is the goal more than quitting work is, but if and as the job becomes less satisfying, there are more options. Right now, we're spending more than I would have imagined twenty years ago but in ways we value - namely, mostly helping our kids launch without debt. This generation of young adults has it really rough in many ways. Their mental health is pretty bad, overall, and of course the economy and covid aren't helping matters. So we are choosing to help and support them however we can.

Once covid is over, we will be entering a period we've never experienced before of lowered expenses (kids launched) and all money goals basically achieved, so for the first time ever, money will CEASE to be an issue. The job could go, and we'd be fine with the decent "starter" pension we could access. But each year employed, we enjoy a high income, solid health care, and a pension that's building, plus our investments don't need to be touched and can hopefully accrue nicely. Until the job goes south (as jobs do), the intention is to start working on a bucket list while the paycheck's still rolling in. Take care of some needed house maintenance, get our house set for the next ten years. Upgrade our travel, host our kids if they want to join us, drink that $15 bottle of wine. Spend freely - after fifty-something years of reigning it in, I'm actually looking forward to this next phase as much as the one comes after.  I feel when it's time to give up the job, we'll know. Or the job may give up on us. But we're about to enter what I'm realizing is a very sweet spot.

Retire-Canada

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8798
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2020, 11:10:36 AM »
I had a realization today that might change my FI plans. I need other opinions about these hypothetical but very real and different situations. I understand a lot can and will change over 20 years.

All based on paid off home and 35-40k annual spending.

FI: Age 35 1M net worth.
fatFI: Age 40 1.6M
infiniteFI: Age 48 3M net worth + 5-6k pension/month + healthcare coverage for life

Realistically I wouldn’t quit my job as soon as I hit FI, it would be somewhere around fatFI. But doing the math today, and realizing about the pension amount and healthcare for life, wouldn’t it make sense to gut out 8 years to double your stash, have a pension that pays for more than your annual spend, and cover myself and family for life healthcare wise?

You can do whatever you like, but I think you are undervaluing trading 8 years at the prime of your life for more money when you don't need it. At 4%WR in most cases [based on historical data] your money will will continue to grow even as you withdraw for retirement.

At Fat FIRE of around ~2.5%WR your money will almost certainly [based on historical data] continue to compound as your withdraw for retirement allowing you to increase spending and leave a legacy/donate to charity.

So your choices aren't really FIRE at $40K/yr at Fat FIRE or work another 8 years and spend more plus donate/leave a legacy. You can already do all of that at Fat FIRE. So you are trading 8 more years of your life for piles of money that are so far beyond your needs it's silly.  Those extra 8 years are not free. Something can happen to materially affect your relationships, health or quality of life and once you spend those 8 years working you can't get them back.

Does that make sense to you? It doesn't make sense to me.

TheAnonOne

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1756
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2020, 11:15:40 AM »
In a forum where people retire at age 18 with $7, 48 sounds like my grandparents knocking on deaths door.

In all seriousness though, had you asked this question 2 years ago on this board, you'd be face-punched and nearly banned for even suggesting you work longer for more money.

So 2 notes:

A. What happened to this forum?
B. The right answer here is somewhere between FIRE and FAT-FIRE anything beyond that is useless in the eyes of our saint Pete.

Sandi_k

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1609
  • Location: California
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2020, 03:17:47 PM »
My answer in regards to doing 8 more years was not about "more money." It was about MORE SECURITY in terms of medical coverage.

In a forum where people retire at age 18 with $7, 48 sounds like my grandparents knocking on deaths door.

In all seriousness though, had you asked this question 2 years ago on this board, you'd be face-punched and nearly banned for even suggesting you work longer for more money.

So 2 notes:

A. What happened to this forum?
B. The right answer here is somewhere between FIRE and FAT-FIRE anything beyond that is useless in the eyes of our saint Pete.

PhilB

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5820
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2020, 03:45:24 PM »
A wonderful outcome for you at 48 would be achieving your infinite FIRE having spent the previous years working at a job you loved and found fulfilling.  A terrible outcome would be to get to 35 or 40 finding you needed to keep working at a job you'd grown to hate and desperately wishing you could afford to quit.  In your shoes I'd plan my career hoping for the former and my finances to preparing for the latter.

Arbitrage

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2020, 07:43:48 AM »
I haven't done the numbers, but I'm peripherally aware of how fat our FI could get with several more years working.  Our income is significantly higher than even a few years ago, and our expenses are the lowest they've been since having kids.  We're saving gobs of money (for us), and if we kept it up for a bunch of years I'm not sure I'd know what to do with all of that stash.

I want the eight years of freedom, though.  My body still works, my kids are still around - and like us - and I've got stuff to do!

Fishindude

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3075
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2020, 07:47:23 AM »
I'd stick it out till at least 48.   That is still a very young retirement and your numbers of $35-40k annual spending are not going to be much to live on in 2040.
Plus it's a whole lot more fun and opens up a lot more options, retiring with $100k or more annual spend rate.

TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5345
  • Location: Texas
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2020, 10:23:22 AM »
I'd stick it out till at least 48.   That is still a very young retirement and your numbers of $35-40k annual spending are not going to be much to live on in 2040.
Plus it's a whole lot more fun and opens up a lot more options, retiring with $100k or more annual spend rate.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of a SWR. Typically they are indexed for inflation.

Trading your 8 youngest, healthiest years when already FatFIRE? Not to be taken lightly.

TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5345
  • Location: Texas
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2020, 10:24:02 AM »
Yes. Lifetime healthcare for you and your spouse  in the era of Trump is absolutely worth sticking it out until age 48, IMO.

That may well change completely come next year, if we have the indicated blue wave.

Simpli-Fi

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 329
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2020, 11:38:34 AM »
I'd stick it out till at least 48.   That is still a very young retirement and your numbers of $35-40k annual spending are not going to be much to live on in 2040.
Plus it's a whole lot more fun and opens up a lot more options, retiring with $100k or more annual spend rate.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of a SWR. Typically they are indexed for inflation.

Trading your 8 youngest, healthiest years when already FatFIRE? Not to be taken lightly.

My company offers similar pension but at 50...I'm 41...I tried my best to stay engaged and stick it out, but 9 more years started to sound like a sentence; even with a ridiculous salary.  So, I opted for a severance package (lucky timing) and will be closing a 30yr 2.8% mortgage in my paradise while still employed vs. wage slaving in a location chosen for me.

Buffaloski Boris

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2121
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2020, 03:21:57 PM »
In a forum where people retire at age 18 with $7, 48 sounds like my grandparents knocking on deaths door.

In all seriousness though, had you asked this question 2 years ago on this board, you'd be face-punched and nearly banned for even suggesting you work longer for more money.

So 2 notes:

A. What happened to this forum?
B. The right answer here is somewhere between FIRE and FAT-FIRE anything beyond that is useless in the eyes of our saint Pete.

A.  The FIRE movement matured.  It started attracting other voices. Some who saw self-fulfillment more broadly.  Oh and some heretical PITAs joined up and just wouldn't STFU.*

B.  I dunno.  I suspect St. Pete would be cool with people who see personal fulfillment in working and bringing economic opportunity to others.  What makes doing volunteer work that improves the world for no pay morally better than doing regular work that improves the world?

*(((blush))) 

Buffaloski Boris

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2121
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2020, 03:29:08 PM »
In résponse to the OP's post, this is a classic question without a right answer.  It depends on what people value. If you put a high value on your outside life and view your work as a miserable burden, you should FIRE ASAP.  Or maybe just look for another job?  If you're fulfilled in your work, view it as a net positive to the world and want to carry on, then why not? 

I'm closer to the infinite FI mindset.  For now I like my job, would work doing some sort of hustle regardless, and am very much into generational wealth. And if you think about it, the key is FI, not the RE.  Because when you're FI, you know what you can do?  Pretty much anything you want.   

Retire-Canada

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8798
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2020, 03:43:02 PM »
Because when you're FI, you know what you can do?  Pretty much anything you want.   

The counter argument would be if you never jump off the hamster wheel you'll never appreciate there is anything else to life beyond that possibility. After you deduct the time for a full-time job, family, friends and basic life requirements [proper eating and sleeping] there's not a lot of time left to explore your options.

TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5345
  • Location: Texas
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2020, 03:46:23 PM »

B.  I dunno.  I suspect St. Pete would be cool with people who see personal fulfillment in working and bringing economic opportunity to others.  What makes doing volunteer work that improves the world for no pay morally better than doing regular work that improves the world?

*(((blush)))

I don't think anyone has an objection to staying on just because you want to help others, find the work fulfilling, helping the world be a better place etc. Heck, after I "retire" from this job (target 2023), I'm likely to be doing something other than travel and hobbies within a few years. I've helped run a nonprofit before (as a volunteer unpaid side gig) - would be a lot more fun if I wasn't already been burning 40+ hrs a week at a full time job.

The objection is "hanging on for a pension" for 8 more years after reaching FatFire. ie - already having more than you really need stashed away.

Papa bear

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1838
  • Location: Ohio
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2020, 04:39:17 PM »
In a forum where people retire at age 18 with $7, 48 sounds like my grandparents knocking on deaths door.

In all seriousness though, had you asked this question 2 years ago on this board, you'd be face-punched and nearly banned for even suggesting you work longer for more money.

So 2 notes:

A. What happened to this forum?
B. The right answer here is somewhere between FIRE and FAT-FIRE anything beyond that is useless in the eyes of our saint Pete.

A.  The FIRE movement matured.  It started attracting other voices. Some who saw self-fulfillment more broadly.  Oh and some heretical PITAs joined up and just wouldn't STFU.*

B.  I dunno.  I suspect St. Pete would be cool with people who see personal fulfillment in working and bringing economic opportunity to others.  What makes doing volunteer work that improves the world for no pay morally better than doing regular work that improves the world?

*(((blush)))
I’m pretty sure Pete coined the term SWAMI back in 2011 or 2012 for those people who are FI but still want to work. 

This isn’t new.  Hasn’t ever been.  Those “omg facepunch you have too much money” people were much more popular after the ERE people came over right after the dude went back to work.  Because, you know.  Money.  Or SWAMI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2020, 05:30:58 PM »
Sorry, what's SWAMI?

Papa bear

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1838
  • Location: Ohio
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2020, 05:37:34 PM »
Sorry, what's SWAMI?
Satisfied Working Advanced Mustachian Individual


https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Weekend-Edition-colourfu-minil.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Buffaloski Boris

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2121
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2020, 07:21:17 PM »
In a forum where people retire at age 18 with $7, 48 sounds like my grandparents knocking on deaths door.

In all seriousness though, had you asked this question 2 years ago on this board, you'd be face-punched and nearly banned for even suggesting you work longer for more money.

So 2 notes:

A. What happened to this forum?
B. The right answer here is somewhere between FIRE and FAT-FIRE anything beyond that is useless in the eyes of our saint Pete.

A.  The FIRE movement matured.  It started attracting other voices. Some who saw self-fulfillment more broadly.  Oh and some heretical PITAs joined up and just wouldn't STFU.*

B.  I dunno.  I suspect St. Pete would be cool with people who see personal fulfillment in working and bringing economic opportunity to others.  What makes doing volunteer work that improves the world for no pay morally better than doing regular work that improves the world?

*(((blush)))
I’m pretty sure Pete coined the term SWAMI back in 2011 or 2012 for those people who are FI but still want to work. 

This isn’t new.  Hasn’t ever been.  Those “omg facepunch you have too much money” people were much more popular after the ERE people came over right after the dude went back to work.  Because, you know.  Money.  Or SWAMI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I had to look around to find out what SWAMI meant.  SWAMI: Satisfied Working Advanced Mustachian Individual. Cool term.  Learn something new every day. 

vand

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2344
  • Location: UK
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2020, 12:51:41 AM »
Even a x25 pot would have been good enough for infinite-FI a lot of the time.

The truth is that so much depends on market performance.

Imo its better to accept that if you want to truly never have to worry about your stash ever running out then its better to work a plan that allows you to bring in some futher income in the future to top your pot rather than have to start with a huge stash and never work again. 

It's not very realistic that someome who amasses, say, a x60 stash will simply kick back and never earn a single penny. People who like money like to earn money. FI people like to earn money, but on their terms.

Matte

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 225
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2020, 09:41:53 AM »
Your age and NW are very similar to me.  I see the same options, don’t really mind my job and the idea of money compounding and making more then I currently earn passively by my mid 40s is really cool.  If I get tired of working (6 figure job with 11 weeks off per year) or life changes then I can always call back on other options. 

Steeze

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
  • Age: 36
  • Location: NYC Area of Earth
Re: FI vs fatFI vs infiniteFI
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2020, 10:26:44 AM »
My plan is a hybrid. By 39 I will be FI with just the portfolio. Before I pull the plug on the job I will be sure to acquire a couple investment properties for extra cash flow and to give myself a part time job completing the maintenance, lawn care & snow removal, and other property management functions.

I don't want to build a large company or anything, but don't want to completely shut the door on that possibility either. Having a small business will provide me flexibility with income & spending, the ability to write off buying tools & equipment, and even continue to save in a Roth some years. This will likely lead to a large surplus which I can pass down to kids / grand kids. Will also give me the opportunity to develop/improve/teach basic skills to my son. (take him to work with me, and later how to manage a rental, etc.).

Sure a 24/7 on-call type property management hobby is limiting, but as long as you have some trusted people nearby it can be very flexible. If I am already FI anyway, then I don't need to profit 100% of the time. I can pay someone to be on-call, plow the driveway, or mow the lawns if I want to travel. If a unit sits empty for a few months so be it.

And who knows - perhaps after a decade of barely working I will find myself motivated to get at it again and start building a more full-time real estate portfolio. Could go either way - but I do know that I want to set myself up to have some extra work and extra income for life.

FI to me is the point at which I can work for myself nearly risk free - Retirement to me means working for myself, on my terms, for as much or as little as I want. I like earning money, I like saving money, it is fun and exciting to build wealth. I don't think I can shut that voice in my brain off. I just don't want to work 10hr days as a desk jockey anymore. I think 4hrs 2-3 days a week would be chill though. I have 5-6 years to figure that out.