Author Topic: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system  (Read 13502 times)

Cork

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #150 on: October 12, 2017, 03:51:43 PM »
Thanks for sticking up for the Feds, @mrigney.

Was it naive of me to expect this thread to stay on topic?   
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CheapskateWife

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #151 on: October 12, 2017, 03:57:04 PM »
Thanks for sticking up for the Feds, @mrigney.

Was it naive of me to expect this thread to stay on topic?
I'm the OP and I got tired of the foam on page one.  :)

Thank you to all of you who have attempted to help our more cynical members see things from our perspective.  The divisiveness is exactly why the President and our current batch of representatives believe they can do this to us....the civilian population has been effectively trained to see us as the enemy, undeserving of the benefits we were promised. 



sol

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #152 on: October 12, 2017, 03:57:35 PM »
Was it naive of me to expect this thread to stay on topic?

Yes.  Mentioning federal employees in public is kind of like mentioning abortion.  You just KNOW some hateful motherfuckers are going to show up and start arguing.

sparkytheop

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #153 on: October 13, 2017, 12:05:07 AM »
We deal with the whole "dragging others down" thing internally as well.

A few years ago, a lower grade got rid of a position that was dragging their pay down when the wage rates were figured out (we are not GS).  So, this bumped their pay up to match the next grade up (and actually calculated even higher).  Instead of saying "hey, they got this huge raise, and we are technically more skilled, etc, we need to fight to get our wages up higher", everyone just yelled "that's not fair!  You need to cut their wages so they don't make as much as us."  Those of us who didn't want to just lower someone else's wages tried to point out that you should use their gain as a reason to fight for your own.  But, no one was interested in going that route.

ROF Expat

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #154 on: October 13, 2017, 06:41:45 AM »
I was a Federal Employee for over 30 years.  I think there's room to talk about how we can make our government more effective and efficient.  There's room for a discussion of compensation of Federal employees.  That said, I don't think the Government should be in the business of making unilateral changes to its agreements.  I view my own work/retirement agreement as a contract.  I lived up to my part of the deal, and the government should live up to its part.  Defaulting on its debt to me should be no different from defaulting on government bonds. 

It bothers me that some posters felt the need to turn OP's question about proposed changes to the retirement system into personal attacks on federal employees.  During my career, I certainly saw some low performing people, just as I did, and do, in the private sector.  I was also privileged to work with many, many fine men and women who did outstanding work under difficult and dangerous circumstances.  I had many close friends and colleagues give their lives and even their family members' lives in service to America.  Many took pay cuts to serve their country, and most routinely worked far more hours than they were paid for with no additional compensation.  Work/Life balance was something people talked about a lot and wished for, but I frequently saw colleagues working close to 24/7 in emergencies.  When I see malicious comments about federal employees, I tend to think about these people.   

DoubleDown

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #155 on: October 13, 2017, 01:44:01 PM »
^^^^ Great post @ROF Expat

The dude calling all government workers lazy, dumb, and overpaid made me wonder how my workplace managed to track down and kill Usama Bin Laden (along with several hundred other top terrorist leaders over the years). That was a feat accomplished by bringing together so much hard work, technical wizardry, intelligence (the kind we possess and the kind we gather), risk, multidisciplinary expertise, patience, personal sacrifice,and lots of other things I haven't even thought of. But no doubt the private sector could have pulled it off in 2 weeks since it's unburdened by lazy people and bureaucracy, plus all those overpaid people with degrees but no actual abilities or smarts. So go ahead and keep vilifying us government workers, we're all sucking off the teat of useful society.
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DoubleDown

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #156 on: October 13, 2017, 01:57:10 PM »
Was it naive of me to expect this thread to stay on topic?

Yes.  Mentioning federal employees in public is kind of like mentioning abortion.  You just KNOW some hateful motherfuckers are going to show up and start arguing.

I try to imagine any other class of people or occupation mentioned in a thread, and then a whole bunch of haters feeling free to launch a bullshit-laden attack full of ugly stereotypes, because.

Q. "Hey, any other plumbers dealing with how to adapt to the new national code standards just released?"
A. "All you plumbers are just a bunch of fat guys showing your butt crack and charging us way too much money just to show up and turn a wrench, which a fifth-grader could do with 5 minutes of instruction."
"Not all quotes on the internet are accurate" -- Abraham Lincoln

kimmarg

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #157 on: October 13, 2017, 07:06:11 PM »
Staying on-topic the potential changes to retirement came up at the office again today.  Basically people who are within about 1-2 years of retiring (which our office happens to have quite a few of) were saying that they would retire now if they thought the benefits would change. us young folks are pretty much ignoring it because what can you do and the Feds is the biggest employer in our field so it's not like people want to leave.

In super exciting news my TSP passed $200k with the last paycheck so maybe I won't need to stick around for traditional retirement! (I'm 34 now)

fattest_foot

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #158 on: October 14, 2017, 01:09:02 PM »
In the "How much do you pay in taxes" thread started yesterday, this link was posted http://rootofgood.com/make-six-figure-income-pay-no-tax/

And he mentioned cashing out his pension. I figured he was state but decided to see if FERS employees can cash out, and sure enough you can!

So now I'm thinking if significant changes to FERS take place, that may be a better option where I can invest that money on my own. It will still be a raw deal as I bought back my military time and it won't be worth as much as the pension would be, but I'd have better control over it and could put the money in a taxable account and use immediately. Plus, it means not having to worry about 20+ years of threats by Congress before I'm even eligible to withdraw.

fattest_foot

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #159 on: October 14, 2017, 10:38:24 PM »
Yeah, I actually ran some rough numbers after the post and it might be able to provide $1K a year in income by the timd I'd have hit MRA. That's versus the almost $1k a month the pension would currently give.

Would take a pretty major change to make it worthwhile to pull it out. Oh well.

Cork

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #160 on: October 15, 2017, 02:48:47 PM »
In super exciting news my TSP passed $200k with the last paycheck so maybe I won't need to stick around for traditional retirement! (I'm 34 now)

Nice job, man!

Yeah, I actually ran some rough numbers after the post and it might be able to provide $1K a year in income by the time I'd have hit MRA. That's versus the almost $1k a month the pension would currently give.

So you're saying NOT cashing out pension and contributing @ 4.4% delayed until payout at MRA is about 1k a month.  While cashing out pension is about 1k per year (lets say for 10 working years).  Did you calculate what that 10k compounds to until MRA?  Probably requires age assumptions.

I'd run the numbers but... it's the weekend :)
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sparkytheop

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #161 on: October 15, 2017, 03:29:24 PM »
In super exciting news my TSP passed $200k with the last paycheck so maybe I won't need to stick around for traditional retirement! (I'm 34 now)

Nice job, man!

Yeah, I actually ran some rough numbers after the post and it might be able to provide $1K a year in income by the time I'd have hit MRA. That's versus the almost $1k a month the pension would currently give.

So you're saying NOT cashing out pension and contributing @ 4.4% delayed until payout at MRA is about 1k a month.  While cashing out pension is about 1k per year (lets say for 10 working years).  Did you calculate what that 10k compounds to until MRA?  Probably requires age assumptions.

I'd run the numbers but... it's the weekend :)

I know I need to run the numbers for myself as well, in case this all goes through and I decide to leave before 57 (my MRA).  If there is no COLA, no health benefits, and no SSS, it really removes my reasons for staying that long.  At 38, I have over $400k in TSP, 17 years into my pension, and a long time to go.  If I build soon, sell the current house, and save like mad for a couple years when I'm done helping DS with school, I might be able to go at my more-desired age of 46, but at least by 52.  Really wish my position was more likely to be eligible for early outs!  The retirement benefits are what would keep me to my MRA, but once they're gone, so is my desire to stay (and I really have a great job).

(As an aside, I'll be in your town for training this week!)

fattest_foot

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #162 on: October 15, 2017, 09:24:42 PM »
In super exciting news my TSP passed $200k with the last paycheck so maybe I won't need to stick around for traditional retirement! (I'm 34 now)

Nice job, man!

Yeah, I actually ran some rough numbers after the post and it might be able to provide $1K a year in income by the time I'd have hit MRA. That's versus the almost $1k a month the pension would currently give.

So you're saying NOT cashing out pension and contributing @ 4.4% delayed until payout at MRA is about 1k a month.  While cashing out pension is about 1k per year (lets say for 10 working years).  Did you calculate what that 10k compounds to until MRA?  Probably requires age assumptions.

I'd run the numbers but... it's the weekend :)

I'm on vacation so the numbers are off the top of my head, but inflation adjusted I want to say it's about $12k a year for FERS delayed retirement, and cashing out is something incredibly small that would grow to $25k in 20 years, giving me $1k a month.

Unless you're a 2013 or later hire, seems like it'd be worth it to roll the dice and see what you get. Then again, if they bump up the employee contribution it may end up being significant one day.

dude

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #163 on: October 16, 2017, 12:22:42 PM »
Are any Fed workers considering a change in employment if the increased contributions go thru?

As Sol has mentioned, required increased pension contributions is really painful for people working towards FIRE...

No way, can't do it.  For starters, I'm 20 years in with only 1.5 to go until eligibility. Second, the increased contributions would reportedly be phased in, so doubtful much impact would occur to me over that period.  What would kill my FIRE dreams is abolishing the SRS and COLAs. If those are taken away, then I'll likely have to forego retiring in 2019 and continue to age 57 in 2022. Which would make me one disgruntled and spectacularly unmotivated employee.

Monkey Uncle

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #164 on: October 21, 2017, 04:31:30 AM »
The budget resolution passed by the Senate does not include any changes to federal retirement:

https://federalnewsradio.com/budget/2017/10/senate-passes-budget-resolution-without-instructions-for-retirement-cuts/

Will be interesting to see if this holds up during reconciliation.
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Lance Burkhart

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #165 on: October 22, 2017, 09:41:07 PM »
^^^^ Great post @ROF Expat

The dude calling all government workers lazy, dumb, and overpaid made me wonder how my workplace managed to track down and kill Usama Bin Laden (along with several hundred other top terrorist leaders over the years). That was a feat accomplished by bringing together so much hard work, technical wizardry, intelligence (the kind we possess and the kind we gather), risk, multidisciplinary expertise, patience, personal sacrifice,and lots of other things I haven't even thought of. But no doubt the private sector could have pulled it off in 2 weeks since it's unburdened by lazy people and bureaucracy, plus all those overpaid people with degrees but no actual abilities or smarts. So go ahead and keep vilifying us government workers, we're all sucking off the teat of useful society.

What is the effect of all this?  Do you ever step back to look at the big picture?  Is global terrorism on the wane?  We're STILL in Afghanistan after 16 years.  It's become the longest war in US history. New leaders have filled the gap left by OBL.  Our own government had a hand in making OBL who he was in the first place when he and his mujahideen were fighting the Russians.  Al Qaeda is still active in Afghanistan along with the Taliban and the Haqqani network.  Meanwhile, our politicians are still completely in bed with the House of Saud which spends a lot of money exporting jihad globally. 

What was the effect of our war in Iraq? ISIS?  Ethnic cleansing of Christians, Druze, and other minorities who'd lived there for thousands of years?  Yes the government is definitely better at all this than the private sector. 

Lance Burkhart

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #166 on: October 22, 2017, 09:50:18 PM »

By libertarian fantasies, I meant Lance Burkhart's kooky idea to eliminate 2/3 of the government without so much as thinking about what that might mean for the American public.  I don't dispute the fact that Uncle pays more than the private sector for run-of-the-mill, low complexity work.

At some point, I have to accept that your reading comprehension does not depend on me, especially when you have no incentive to understand.  The original link I posted at the CATO institute called for about $500 billion in cuts the first year phasing in enough over a 10 year period that we pay off our national debt.  Even those cuts don't amount to 2/3 of the Federal budget.  I proposed about $700 billion in cuts this year which is just enough to get us into the black for this year counting all of the natural disasters we've paid for.  Elsewhere I mentioned a uniform 20% reduction. 

We spend roughly 4 trillion a year.  What's .7/4?  It's not 2/3.  If you can't do these basic back-of-the-envelope calculations, you shouldn't be lecturing anyone on how we can't cut the budget because some people will get the sads.

Quote
I myself am not in such a position and could easily make more if I went back to the consulting world.  I could actually support adjusting the GS pay schedule and/or reclassifying positions so that base pay better reflects the work that is being done.  But don't slash promised retirement benefits for people who've put in a full career and are counting on those benefits.

No one's slashing your bennies.  Did you even read the proposed bill or just some fakenews hack report on it?  Here's the only way I can see federal employment benefits getting cut: we continue down our national path to insolvency and then all bets are off.

 
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 09:59:05 PM by Lance Burkhart »

wenchsenior

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #167 on: October 23, 2017, 04:12:53 PM »
^^^^ Great post @ROF Expat

The dude calling all government workers lazy, dumb, and overpaid made me wonder how my workplace managed to track down and kill Usama Bin Laden (along with several hundred other top terrorist leaders over the years). That was a feat accomplished by bringing together so much hard work, technical wizardry, intelligence (the kind we possess and the kind we gather), risk, multidisciplinary expertise, patience, personal sacrifice,and lots of other things I haven't even thought of. But no doubt the private sector could have pulled it off in 2 weeks since it's unburdened by lazy people and bureaucracy, plus all those overpaid people with degrees but no actual abilities or smarts. So go ahead and keep vilifying us government workers, we're all sucking off the teat of useful society.

What is the effect of all this?  Do you ever step back to look at the big picture?  Is global terrorism on the wane?  We're STILL in Afghanistan after 16 years.  It's become the longest war in US history. New leaders have filled the gap left by OBL.  Our own government had a hand in making OBL who he was in the first place when he and his mujahideen were fighting the Russians.  Al Qaeda is still active in Afghanistan along with the Taliban and the Haqqani network.  Meanwhile, our politicians are still completely in bed with the House of Saud which spends a lot of money exporting jihad globally. 

What was the effect of our war in Iraq? ISIS?  Ethnic cleansing of Christians, Druze, and other minorities who'd lived there for thousands of years?  Yes the government is definitely better at all this than the private sector.

Congratulations, this is by far your dumbest post (of several whoppers, including the one below) in this thread.  If you truly are not a troll and can't see why your post is ridiculous, then I suggest you stop posting altogether until you figure it out.  If you secretly know you are posting drivel but can't seem to stop doing it, then perhaps step away from the keyboard until you figure out and deal with whatever personal issues are driving you to embarrass yourself in this way. 

Monkey Uncle

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #168 on: October 27, 2017, 03:47:11 AM »
The House just passed the Senate's budget resolution unchanged, so the cuts appear to be off the table for now.  I guess we'll see what comes out in the actual spending bills.

https://federalnewsradio.com/your-money/2017/10/feds-saved-from-retirement-cuts-in-2018-budget-resolution-with-house-vote/
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dude

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Re: Fellow Feds...proposed changes to our retirement system
« Reply #169 on: October 27, 2017, 07:13:03 AM »
Yep, that's good news. Another article:

http://www.govexec.com/pay-benefits/retirement-planning/2017/10/benefits-spared-budget-ax/142087/?oref=retirement_planning_nl

Now I just gotta see how the tax cuts will affect me. It doesn't look good.  And of course, if the tax cuts pass, when, as is inevitable and predictable, federal deficits start to balloon as a result, the GOP will blame fed workers' benefits and make a renewed assault on them.