Author Topic: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom  (Read 3252 times)

spartanswami

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Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« on: March 10, 2022, 09:51:52 AM »
Mid-life tech worker in middle management with working spouse and teen kids. Reasonably good work environment (apart from constant sales/revenue push), supportive colleagues and good income. However I'm just "languishing/burned out" and can't really make sense of it. Through the pandemic aging parents have had significant health issues and kids have struggled through remote school and I feel like I can't manage the constant juggling any more.

Been a mustachian for a while and have a decent stash (45x annual spend) and looking for some sage advice from fellow mustachians about what to do next. Options I'm considering are:
1. Take a few months (3+) of unpaid leave to manage issues at home 
2. Push on through, be resilient etc, etc.
3. Switch to another lower stress job with less focus on sales/revenue
4. FIRE
Any other suggestions?

fell-like-rain

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2022, 10:04:00 AM »
I'm just "languishing/burned out"

have a decent stash (45x annual spend)

Oh my god, quit your job TODAY. You are so far past needing the money that it makes absolutely no sense to stay when you are feeling burnt out. Take at least a month, maybe more, to do absolutely nothing other than taking care of yourself and your family obligations. Go for walks, make nice breakfasts, read books. Once you've done that, then you can turn to thinking about what your next steps could be- FIRE, new job, whatever. But right now it sounds like you're stuck in defense mode, just trying to handle the day-to-day tasks, and it's very difficult to do long-term thinking in that kind of situation.

LifeHappens

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2022, 10:09:47 AM »
Been a mustachian for a while and have a decent stash (45x annual spend)
Is that a typo?! If you really have that much stashed and don't have some kind of gigantic upcoming spend you can quit right now. Today. And never work again.

This is a great thread on burnout https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/feeling-burned-out-anyone-else/ if you need more convincing.

ixtap

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2022, 10:13:46 AM »
Well, with 45x, the obvious answer is 4, but since you are asking rather than just doing it, perhaps 3 would be a better transition for you, personally.

Dicey

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2022, 10:15:17 AM »
If you're at 45x spend, you're losing the game.

The only thing your money can't buy is time. Stop wasting it!

Paper Chaser

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2022, 10:30:35 AM »
Option 1 seems like a great way to do a trial of Option 4 to me. Think of it as "Practice FIRE". Having accumulated 45x expenses, it seems like you may not be super motivated to stop working, so use the time off to see how you feel and if you want to go back, that door would remain open.

spartanswami

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2022, 11:04:18 AM »
Thank you, you guys are the best! I think I needed the push/affirmation which you gave me. This is why I love this community, this feels like my tribe :-)

I'm going to start with Option #1 (extended to 6-12 months) and figure out what to do next.

solon

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2022, 11:17:02 AM »
Yes, definitely start with option #1. And that's what you want to tell your employer too (as opposed to resigning, retiring, etc). But I bet after 3-12 months of not working you won't be able to think of a good reason to go back.

joe189man

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2022, 11:46:15 AM »
I feel you, from your post it sounds like you are no longer a SWAMI. i would recommend option 1. Boarder42 just retired and he did a 12 week FMLA leave last summer to test drive things. he has a journal you may find interesting.

I can tell you if we had 45x spending saved or a 2.2%widthdrawl rate i would only be doing things i absolutely loved or was extremely passionate about for work

jsap819

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2022, 01:05:38 PM »
Definitely not #2. #3 if you still want to keep working. #1 if you feel like you need a break but I wouldn't go back to the same job once you've cleared your head. Personally, I'd choose #4. Unless you want to leave a shit ton of money to your heirs or you don't know what to do with your newfound freedom, you've worked too long already for money you don't even need. I would use this break to really think about how you want to live the rest of your life.

ixtap

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2022, 02:08:15 PM »
The thing about #4, is there is no rule that you can't begin a job search if you don't love it...

simonsez

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2022, 02:19:51 PM »
Talk to your spouse.  How do they feel about their career as it intersects with other aspects of life?  Are they also burned out or are they doing better?

Yeah, change up the status quo.  At minimum, get plenty of feedback from loved ones and then work toward living how you want.  Life is too short to ignore your spouse and kids due to a job when you're at 45x.

thesis

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2022, 09:11:16 PM »
I'm currently taking an extended break from work. I have nowhere near as much annual spend set aside as you do, and I'm convinced this is one of the best decisions I've ever made. I vote with the others: it's time to take an extended break.

AccidentialMustache

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2022, 10:02:32 PM »
The pandemic has been really *really* hard on parents. If DW hadn't *already* been 50% time at the start of it, there is no way we would have made it through. Someone (her) would have had to have quit or we'd have lost our minds. We've still been debating some if that should happen anyway.

Everyone else is right if you're really sure about that 45x number. Walk out the door don't look back. I wouldn't even sabbatical. Sure, tell folks that if you don't want questions, but I guarantee you if we had that much of our annual spend saved neither of us would be working tomorrow.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2022, 10:55:35 PM »
I can relate (though we’re DINKs), debating all the same options in my case with SO a few years behind. I really want to nab #1 but it’s frowned on/ I’ve been shut down before.

If you can get leave I’d take it; the flexibility of being able to return if you feel the desire while catching up on all the matters a full-time role precludes is enough reason. I also imagine being dismissed on leave rather than quitting is probably easier to parlay out of negative territory when seeking a new job if needed (can anyone confirm?)

Since you have a well-padded stash, have you reflected on why you haven’t left yet? Are your expenses quite lean, for instance, or had you not seriously contemplated quitting yet? I told myself I’d ramp down to a more laid-back position before I gave it up entirely  but the stress/ exhaustion of the day job makes job-hunting the last thing I feel energy for after work.

moof

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2022, 11:22:19 PM »
I can relate.  I quit my job a month ago, taking at least 6 months off, likely forever.  I’ve been very unhappy for a couple years, it is weird to not be angry and despondent everyday, takes some getting used to.  I don’t have 45x, only 20x.

Take a big break, you’ll be glad you did.

spartanswami

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2022, 04:39:53 PM »
I can relate (though we’re DINKs), debating all the same options in my case with SO a few years behind. I really want to nab #1 but it’s frowned on/ I’ve been shut down before.

If you can get leave I’d take it; the flexibility of being able to return if you feel the desire while catching up on all the matters a full-time role precludes is enough reason. I also imagine being dismissed on leave rather than quitting is probably easier to parlay out of negative territory when seeking a new job if needed (can anyone confirm?)

Since you have a well-padded stash, have you reflected on why you haven’t left yet? Are your expenses quite lean, for instance, or had you not seriously contemplated quitting yet? I told myself I’d ramp down to a more laid-back position before I gave it up entirely  but the stress/ exhaustion of the day job makes job-hunting the last thing I feel energy for after work.

I've been planning for FIRE as soon as I became aware of mustachianism and been contemplating it for a few years. I think a few fears (perhaps unfounded) are what have kept me from taking the leap.
1. Potential for financially devastating medical bills if we don't have employer provided health insurance that could wipe us out
2. DW and I both grew up in families of very modest means, faced financial insecurity growing up and that worst-case scenario fear drives us to keep going while we can still have good incomes
3. I don't really know what I will FIRE to. I have a bunch of interests but fear that I might just end up surfing the web with attendant cognitive decline (I suspect I'm also a bit ADHD)

However over the last few years I've lost a number of family members and the internal conflict that I'm faced with is getting louder. Thanks to you all for the support, I'm going to take an extended break and perhaps that will give me the impetus to take the plunge into FIRE.

samanil

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2022, 06:44:27 PM »
Bro. Retire.

Glenstache

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2022, 11:02:07 PM »
Thank you, you guys are the best! I think I needed the push/affirmation which you gave me. This is why I love this community, this feels like my tribe :-)

I'm going to start with Option #1 (extended to 6-12 months) and figure out what to do next.
Sounds like a great plan.

moof

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2022, 11:17:23 PM »
I can relate (though we’re DINKs), debating all the same options in my case with SO a few years behind. I really want to nab #1 but it’s frowned on/ I’ve been shut down before.

If you can get leave I’d take it; the flexibility of being able to return if you feel the desire while catching up on all the matters a full-time role precludes is enough reason. I also imagine being dismissed on leave rather than quitting is probably easier to parlay out of negative territory when seeking a new job if needed (can anyone confirm?)

Since you have a well-padded stash, have you reflected on why you haven’t left yet? Are your expenses quite lean, for instance, or had you not seriously contemplated quitting yet? I told myself I’d ramp down to a more laid-back position before I gave it up entirely  but the stress/ exhaustion of the day job makes job-hunting the last thing I feel energy for after work.

I've been planning for FIRE as soon as I became aware of mustachianism and been contemplating it for a few years. I think a few fears (perhaps unfounded) are what have kept me from taking the leap.
1. Potential for financially devastating medical bills if we don't have employer provided health insurance that could wipe us out
2. DW and I both grew up in families of very modest means, faced financial insecurity growing up and that worst-case scenario fear drives us to keep going while we can still have good incomes
3. I don't really know what I will FIRE to. I have a bunch of interests but fear that I might just end up surfing the web with attendant cognitive decline (I suspect I'm also a bit ADHD)

However over the last few years I've lost a number of family members and the internal conflict that I'm faced with is getting louder. Thanks to you all for the support, I'm going to take an extended break and perhaps that will give me the impetus to take the plunge into FIRE.
1.  Look into ACA plans, you can plan out how bad things could be if you hit annual maximums.  It isn’t pretty, but also keeps things survivable.
2.  I can relate.  I spent much of my childhood with a single mother, sometimes on welfare, the rest just scraping by.  I went on to make up to 175k when I quit.  The frugality you learned is a gosh dang super power.
3.  Not sure how, but I am fricking busy.  Sure I am out riding my bike a lot, but also struggling to prioritize projects at home, while also making sure to be fully available to my 9yo.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2022, 02:31:57 PM »
3. (ADHD) - I think a lot of us are probably in that range, I know I am. MMM himself was diagnosed a while back. I expect it to take months of decompression before I engage my interests again because I've been ground down. I do trust this would come back eventually, though. You could also find a commitment here or there to volunteer to keep yourself sharp.
2. I grew up lower middle class but launched into a recession economy with few available jobs, unemployed with student debt to pay, so giving up a "good" job with stability enough to cover unexpected bills feels like insanity, even when it's causing some health issues.
1. This one's the scary bit to me - ACA plans are very affordable, but the utility of insurance to cover healthcare is a tattered patchwork here in the US. You can be insured & still wind up with thousands a month in care costs. After watching insured family struggle to afford care it's hard to feel like I can predict my expenses.

Losing family's the accelerant of my urge to fledge, as I am terribly aware of how short life can be - but there's also no backup if something in my life goes wrong, & most the friends I might have called on for help in case of a broken leg or a non-communicable illness are preoccupied with their own children.

spartanswami

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2022, 08:24:14 AM »
Quick update in case anyone's interested.

I took a 6 month leave of absence from work which was great. Got a lot of time to decompress and worked on a bunch of DIY projects and fixes around the home.

Spent a good amount of time overseas taking care of my aging parents, especially with my dad at the hospital for his cancer treatment (timely too since he was extremely sick while I was with him). Happy that I was able to spend time with him and to see him get better.

Read a lot of fiction and non-fiction books. Studied and practiced some Buddhist teachings and mindfulness from reading/listening to Thich Nhat Han which helped me be much more calm and present at home and in general.

I'm back at work now, things are a bit slow with the year end and while I'm not burned out like before, I'm not as enthusiastic as in the early years of my career, but will see how things play out over the next couple of months.



ToTheMoon

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2022, 08:34:12 AM »
It is always nice to see updates, and I am so glad to hear you got time with your Dad when he really needed it.

I am interested to know what has led to you returning to work, since it obviously shouldn't be money?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2022, 09:34:11 PM by ToTheMoon »

IslandFiGirl

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2022, 08:35:28 AM »
Once you've left your super stressful job, I don't think you can ever feel as enthusiastic about it ever again. I definitely have struggled with going "all in" on the few jobs I've tried after quitting my stressful career. It's weird, but also freeing and empowering.

314159

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Re: Feeling stuck/burned out - Need some mustachian wisdom
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2022, 10:46:21 AM »
Thanks for the update. I'm still confused though—why are you working? ToTheMoon is right: at 45x expenses, "to save for retirement" is not an answer!

Do you look forward to work each day? Do you have fun at your job? Does it bring you pleasure? Based on your original post, I would have thought at least one of these would be a "no". In which case you should identify what is keeping you at work.