Author Topic: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?  (Read 58101 times)

namasteyall

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #150 on: April 23, 2021, 06:25:47 AM »
Surely HRD staff everywhere should be reading about FIRE and ensuring jobs are as pleasant as can be? Some small things/favors can mean lot to staff. Anyone in HRD here?

Morning Glory

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #151 on: April 23, 2021, 06:31:06 AM »
Squeezed out and wrung dry is accurate. I don't think I could ever go back to working as much as I once did. Even my current relatively flexible job is a bit too much right now. I could not imagine waking up at 0300 and going out in the bitter cold, for example, or working 12.5 and then staying awake for a two hour class. I don't feel like I'm the same person who used to do all those things. My age hit me like a ton of bricks this year.

Metalcat

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #152 on: April 23, 2021, 07:17:44 AM »
Squeezed out and wrung dry is accurate. I don't think I could ever go back to working as much as I once did. Even my current relatively flexible job is a bit too much right now. I could not imagine waking up at 0300 and going out in the bitter cold, for example, or working 12.5 and then staying awake for a two hour class. I don't feel like I'm the same person who used to do all those things. My age hit me like a ton of bricks this year.

Burnout makes you feel really old. I was always griping about aging until I retired and I was like "oh, that feeling like I'm slowly dying thing wasn't aging, was it?"

It's insane what we can tolerate when we feel we need to. Hedonic adaptation is a real thing, once you get used to the luxury of not forcing yourself to go through literal physical torture of sleep deprivation, exhaustion, chronic inflammation , etc, it really becomes impossible to imagine doing it ever again.

I'm always commenting to DH that I've become so wimpy in my retirement. I can't believe the shit I used to put myself through, especially in school.

asauer

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #153 on: April 23, 2021, 09:07:45 AM »
Surely HRD staff everywhere should be reading about FIRE and ensuring jobs are as pleasant as can be? Some small things/favors can mean lot to staff. Anyone in HRD here?

Yep!  20 year HRD veteran here and agree that most of us try to make work be not terrible for people.  However, when the CEO gets up in front of the room in an all hands and throws all your hard work out the window with gems like "hiring freeze", "we need to be all-in on this" and "it's crunch time" and "loyal employees are committed" it gets to feel futile.  Also, when c-level people force us HR ppl to keep jerks or hire their friends instead of actual qualified people it has a big impact on the good people in the company.  Some companies are moving in the right direction with this, most are not.

2sk22

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #154 on: April 23, 2021, 09:21:21 AM »
There is a timely article in The NY Times about this.

Quote
“I realized I was sitting at my kitchen counter 10 hours a day feeling miserable,” he said. “I just thought: ‘What do I have to lose? We could all die tomorrow.’”

Josiecat22222

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #155 on: April 23, 2021, 05:01:49 PM »
You know how they cook the lobster, right?  They put it in a pot of water while it's alive, then set the burner on.  It slowly raises the temperature until the lobster is cooked.  Jobs can be like that too; everything is ok when you start, but as time wears on, responsibilities pile up, employees leave and are not replaced or conditions change and one day you wake up and the role you came to the company for is unrecognizable in  its current iteration.  Workplace stress/burnout are like that, too.  You don't realize how bad the situation has gotten until you step away from it....the old "that's what I love about hitting myself on the head with a hammer....it feels so good when I stop!"

Jenny1974

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #156 on: April 23, 2021, 05:27:05 PM »
I feel like I could have written this exact post.  I'm 46, tax accountant for megacorp, and just burnt out.  The stakes are always high and I'm constantly under pressure to perform . . and perform well.  I wish I had an answer.  I'm a bit better off on the money end of things than the numbers you provided but I find myself regularly contemplating walking away.  Will I?  Probably not because I'm type A and risk averse so I'm sure I'll find a million reasons to talk myself out of it.  I hope you are able to find peace . . .maybe it will give me some hope for myself.

namasteyall

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #157 on: April 24, 2021, 02:13:56 AM »
asauer Thanks. Seem a serious issue of qualified staff flight that HR should tackle, hold conferences/discussions on, etc. Often as you know, a small benefit/perk is removed by some well meaning 'company man': a benefit that cost the company little but meant a lot to staff. Avoidable situation!

We used to get 5 weeks off, not including weekends, no work ever on weekends, all medicals for the family, 1 and a half balanced meal/s at work, free flights for family on annual holiday, etc. Also free personal days as needed, free quality furnished housing or equivalent rent in a HCOL city and car allowance, parking, private school fees/uniforms, a helper, etc. Also expensive appliances like air conditioners! And best of all, if you retired with them, free medicals for 2 for life: rationale was people need medicals they age not when they are young and healthy. Yes companies do all this and more. Especially common for expats often.

Many qualified financially independent folk seem happy to continue working full or even part time, if conditions are good. Many do not want to leave and it is not just for the pay. My observation! Happy to be corrected.

However I was thinking more of small irritations that a company could presumably iron out for staff  comfort and not big things. E.g. everyone leaving on time, explaining about pensions, saving, etc. helpfully. 

« Last Edit: April 24, 2021, 03:14:52 AM by namasteyall »

ender

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #158 on: April 24, 2021, 06:12:39 AM »
You know how they cook the lobster, right?  They put it in a pot of water while it's alive, then set the burner on.  It slowly raises the temperature until the lobster is cooked.  Jobs can be like that too; everything is ok when you start, but as time wears on, responsibilities pile up, employees leave and are not replaced or conditions change and one day you wake up and the role you came to the company for is unrecognizable in  its current iteration.  Workplace stress/burnout are like that, too.  You don't realize how bad the situation has gotten until you step away from it....the old "that's what I love about hitting myself on the head with a hammer....it feels so good when I stop!"

The framing I like to tell people is less "do you like your job?" but more, "imagine you weren't working at this job. Would you accept the offer to work there given what you know now about your job/manager?"

In my experience, most people suck at deciding to leave their job. But many will be able to answer that second question easily and... it's a good neon flashing sign when that thought exercise happens.

Roots&Wings

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #159 on: April 24, 2021, 11:50:44 AM »
Apparently burnout rates have soared during pandemic and many companies are now offering additional vacation or leave time: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/companies-try-to-fight-burnout-202914677.html
A day here or there though won't make much difference. The extra holiday week was a nicer gesture.

Etherflyer

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #160 on: April 25, 2021, 09:41:08 PM »
I feel you I'm mid thirties and burned out.  Mech Engineer working in construction/design.  Projects are interesting, always learning something new, normally like most of the people I work with but I'm ready to do something else with my life besides just work (especially as upper mgt removes any incentives for making it worth while but still expects to own your soul).  I've always worked 50 hr weeks since I started over 13 years ago, with lots of long stints of 60s and 70s.  Fortunately I was lucky enough to have a dad that retired semi early to beat it into my head about saving  for myself first/not needlessly growing lifestyle so while I'm not quite FI due to worries over health insurance/maybe settling down I'm close but nooot quite there yet.

I keep hoping I'll find an engineering job that doesn't require so many hours but isn't soul crushingly boring either.  I wonder if anyone has any ideas? 

jackieapple

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #161 on: April 26, 2021, 03:31:21 PM »
Working from home until the pandemic is over and it's just exhausting.  I am an accounting manager (not in public), and I just feel like my entire life is running around fixing high stakes problems and being at the mercy of absolutely everyone.  Mistakes are a big deal with other people's money so there is a constant fear of making mistakes.  I have to review big wires and make sure reports are perfect, and answer a million questions of varying difficulty all day long, and keep track of tons of to-do items for myself and staff.  I am 38 and while the job isn't 24/7 (more like 8:30am to 5pm with some bouts of extra work), the work itself is hard.  I am tired.  I want to retire or maybe change careers but I am just breaking into the high-earning years in this industry so a few years of this will really pad my retirement.

Currently making $160,000 plus bonus and 401k employer profit sharing, and have around $470,000 in investments.  No house yet, but I'm in a HCOL area so renting makes more sense in this market.  My partner can retire in 6 years with a good pension and I was aiming for that as well but then I get sad thinking I will already be in my mid-40s and dealing with this stress for years.  My partner has about 30% more than me in savings/investments as well so we are pretty well set for regular retirement, now just aiming for a pretty early one.

I don't even know where to start finding something else I enjoy doing that will pay reasonably well.  Should I open up a tax prep shop and only work half the year?  Should I do something entirely different?  I like being outdoors and working with non-corporate people.  I am an older millennial and the spring since I was 21 of paying off loans, grad school, savings, building my career etc is like..endless.  Anyone else feel this way at my age?  I don't even have a HOUSE.

Not sure if I could be of any help but I just want to say I understand your pain. I also think it would be a good idea for you to just take a mini-retirement. I did that for about six months a couple of of years ago and it changed my life. I had a renewed energy for life. I understand how not having a house at this age could make you worried but thinking of everything you don't have all at once will be very depressing and exhausting. When I feel that way, I prioritize what I need to do first. For me it was to take some time off of work and focus on my mental health and then I was able to work on everything else after.

Morning Glory

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #162 on: April 26, 2021, 04:11:10 PM »
On the house thing: I have too much house, getting ready to sell it and take a break from being a homeowner. Any new house I buy will be about half the size with about 1/36th as much land :)  That might help me be able to carve out more free time between work and childcare obligations. 

Work update: 2 weeks until summer break. Hoping to have a lot more energy and motivation when school starts again in August. Hoping to be able to take a mini-retirement starting next year too.

use2betrix

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #163 on: April 26, 2021, 06:30:44 PM »
This post has been a long time coming..

I have been sacrificing things that most people wouldn’t dream of for my career for the last decade. The whole goal to make more money.

My wife and I have been together 9 years, and we’ve lived in 8 states and probably moved 15-20 times. We lived in a 5th wheel full time for 5 years. I’ve been working as a contractor in oil & gas/industrial construction and moving project to project, company to company. Started as a welder making $19/hr about 11 years ago. Right now I’m an upper level manager on a $3BN new project making about $370k/yr.

Oh does it come with it’s sacrifices though! Tons of hours, 50-60 hrs for most my career. I once did a 6 month stint alternating 72/82 hr work weeks. Did that for a 4 month period another time. I haven’t had an actual sick day in about 10 years.

In 2017 we did take two, 4 month sabbaticals (beginning and end of the year) and OH were they life changing!

I am fortunate in a lot of ways. My wife has traveled with me and mostly not worked, so her support is endless. She does everything around the house so all my time spent not working is mostly doing “other” stuff. Working out, hanging out with her, etc.

I am also very fortunate that good diet and exercise is my gateway. Even in my peak months last year I was running 30 miles/wk and lifting 3 days/wk. Our diet is always great and my wife preps all our meals.

Down to the nitty gritty though.. My job.. My responsibility is regarding a HUGE critical portion of these projects. I’ve been charging time for 50 hr weeks since starting this job, yet working 55 most weeks just to get caught up. I eventually got approval to charge 55 hrs by the project, then my other manager that approves my time (totally disconnected from the job) starts questioning my hours. Mind you - I am balls to the walls every hour, every minute, of every day. I can sit down to eat my lunch and have 2-3 people stop in my office on top of phone calls and trying to catch up on emails. I have to constantly just “not do” things I should because there’s no time..

On the project, all the way up to the high director levels and in other groups in the company at the same level, I have 100% support. To work more hours, hire more people, get more help. They all see the huge value I have added over the guy who I just replaced.

I do all this, and every damn week my “corporate” manager who approves my time, questions if I “really need to work that much” or “really hire more people.” This guy is 100% disconnected from the job on a day to day basis. Aside from my time I hear from him maybe once every two months. Tomorrow he has set up a meeting to discuss “hours/staffing/etc.”

Let’s put it this way.. Despite tomorrow being my birthday, I’m getting up at 4:30 to work out so I can take my xanax before work because I’m going to have to muster up every single ounce of patience I can to not lose my shit.. Normally, I’ve been working out in the evenings which means I can’t take my anxiety meds during the day (xanax + workout is no bueno)... Moving forward, I need to start making all my workouts before work for this reason, I used to, but just got out of the habit..
« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 06:34:46 PM by use2betrix »

AerynLee

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #164 on: April 26, 2021, 08:00:09 PM »
Accountant here...super burnt out. At this point I'm actually regretting my decision 3ish years ago to finally get a job in public accounting to get my CPA (passed the exams back in 2012). Now I'm looking for new jobs and I'm either way overqualified or the job sounds too stressful or too full of corporate BS.
As a reminder that you won't get what you don't ask for: I had an unrelated meeting with some higher ups last week and told them I was burnt out and wanted to downshift and they were very supportive of me going semi-seasonal. Based on our conversation it looks like I can go down to about 15 hours weeks once tax season is over and next year I'll plan for slightly less hours during tax season and about 20 hours week after. We haven't talked pay yet, but it's a 1/3 reduction in hours so I'm guessing a similar reduction in salary, though I'm going to try to argue for less of a cut since more of my hours will be directly billable. I'm working on my proposal and hope to have thing sorted out in the next month

0tp

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #165 on: April 26, 2021, 08:10:27 PM »
I'm with you that it's insulting to be questioned regarding the value your bringing especially when you're working like that, but all that guy needs to do is ask your other managers that supervise the quality of your work and he'll figure it out. But at 15 hrs of OT at your level they can probably afford to hire someone else out for that, and you can perhaps not burn out.

Would cutting back on the OT really hurt your NW goal/timeline?


This post has been a long time coming..

I have been sacrificing things that most people wouldn’t dream of for my career for the last decade. The whole goal to make more money.

My wife and I have been together 9 years, and we’ve lived in 8 states and probably moved 15-20 times. We lived in a 5th wheel full time for 5 years. I’ve been working as a contractor in oil & gas/industrial construction and moving project to project, company to company. Started as a welder making $19/hr about 11 years ago. Right now I’m an upper level manager on a $3BN new project making about $370k/yr.

Oh does it come with it’s sacrifices though! Tons of hours, 50-60 hrs for most my career. I once did a 6 month stint alternating 72/82 hr work weeks. Did that for a 4 month period another time. I haven’t had an actual sick day in about 10 years.

In 2017 we did take two, 4 month sabbaticals (beginning and end of the year) and OH were they life changing!

I am fortunate in a lot of ways. My wife has traveled with me and mostly not worked, so her support is endless. She does everything around the house so all my time spent not working is mostly doing “other” stuff. Working out, hanging out with her, etc.

I am also very fortunate that good diet and exercise is my gateway. Even in my peak months last year I was running 30 miles/wk and lifting 3 days/wk. Our diet is always great and my wife preps all our meals.

Down to the nitty gritty though.. My job.. My responsibility is regarding a HUGE critical portion of these projects. I’ve been charging time for 50 hr weeks since starting this job, yet working 55 most weeks just to get caught up. I eventually got approval to charge 55 hrs by the project, then my other manager that approves my time (totally disconnected from the job) starts questioning my hours. Mind you - I am balls to the walls every hour, every minute, of every day. I can sit down to eat my lunch and have 2-3 people stop in my office on top of phone calls and trying to catch up on emails. I have to constantly just “not do” things I should because there’s no time..

On the project, all the way up to the high director levels and in other groups in the company at the same level, I have 100% support. To work more hours, hire more people, get more help. They all see the huge value I have added over the guy who I just replaced.

I do all this, and every damn week my “corporate” manager who approves my time, questions if I “really need to work that much” or “really hire more people.” This guy is 100% disconnected from the job on a day to day basis. Aside from my time I hear from him maybe once every two months. Tomorrow he has set up a meeting to discuss “hours/staffing/etc.”

Let’s put it this way.. Despite tomorrow being my birthday, I’m getting up at 4:30 to work out so I can take my xanax before work because I’m going to have to muster up every single ounce of patience I can to not lose my shit.. Normally, I’ve been working out in the evenings which means I can’t take my anxiety meds during the day (xanax + workout is no bueno)... Moving forward, I need to start making all my workouts before work for this reason, I used to, but just got out of the habit..

Aelias

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #166 on: April 27, 2021, 07:26:46 AM »
Surely HRD staff everywhere should be reading about FIRE and ensuring jobs are as pleasant as can be? Some small things/favors can mean lot to staff. Anyone in HRD here?

Yep!  20 year HRD veteran here and agree that most of us try to make work be not terrible for people.  However, when the CEO gets up in front of the room in an all hands and throws all your hard work out the window with gems like "hiring freeze", "we need to be all-in on this" and "it's crunch time" and "loyal employees are committed" it gets to feel futile.  Also, when c-level people force us HR ppl to keep jerks or hire their friends instead of actual qualified people it has a big impact on the good people in the company.  Some companies are moving in the right direction with this, most are not.

I work in an HR adjacent field and can confirm everything @asauer is saying here.  HR is a TOUGH job that doesn't get as much respect as it should. Almost everyone in HR gets into it because they're looking to do the right thing for employees.  But, at the end of the day, you support the business and when the business makes choices that have a negative impact on employee morale, it's HR that has to get in there and try to execute on leadership's decisions while still keeping people going.

FWIW, I see a ton of burnout and cynicism in HR professionals, and it hits the best ones the hardest.  The best HR people know bullshit when they see it and try their best to push against it.  But some days, the bullshit prevails.  And if you can't detach from that, it gets really hard to keep going. 

lutorm

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #167 on: April 28, 2021, 12:23:53 AM »
I do all this, and every damn week my “corporate” manager who approves my time, questions if I “really need to work that much” or “really hire more people.” This guy is 100% disconnected from the job on a day to day basis. Aside from my time I hear from him maybe once every two months. Tomorrow he has set up a meeting to discuss “hours/staffing/etc.”
It seems the avenue to progress is clear here: if he doesn't want you to work more than 40h, you say "ok, if you want to, we can try that" and work 40h. Not a minute more. And when people want you to do stuff you don't have time for, you tell them to "request more support from <manager>". If he doesn't want more staffing, it's not your job to backstop that.

GuitarStv

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #168 on: April 28, 2021, 08:36:59 AM »
I do all this, and every damn week my “corporate” manager who approves my time, questions if I “really need to work that much” or “really hire more people.” This guy is 100% disconnected from the job on a day to day basis. Aside from my time I hear from him maybe once every two months. Tomorrow he has set up a meeting to discuss “hours/staffing/etc.”
It seems the avenue to progress is clear here: if he doesn't want you to work more than 40h, you say "ok, if you want to, we can try that" and work 40h. Not a minute more. And when people want you to do stuff you don't have time for, you tell them to "request more support from <manager>". If he doesn't want more staffing, it's not your job to backstop that.

Yep.  This is the correct path forward.  It always amazes me how easily smart people can be conned into killing themselves to do good work for a company that seems totally uninterested in supporting them to do the good work.

Meggslynn

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #169 on: April 28, 2021, 10:04:40 AM »
I am also burnt out. I am about to turn 38 and been working my butt off since I was 17. The last four years have been especially tumultuous as I was in a management position in a company that was in a brand new industry going through extremely rapid growth and then extreme decline. I received two promotions during this time and doubled my salary. I thought I was killing it but I was actually killing myself. I have recently been diagnosed with three illnesses/disorders that were most likely brought on by chronic high stress and anxiety. One of them I would have likely developed eventually but its arrivals got pushed up to the present.
I started self-medicating by micro-dosing cannabis oil as no matter what I did (meditation, exercise, journaling, etc) I could not get my body or brain to relax.
Things reached a breaking point at the end of February. I went on what was supposed to be a 4-week leave. I am still off and about to apply for long-term disability as short-term is about to run out.

I am not sitting on the stashes that a lot mentioned on this thread. I have 6 months of income in emergency savings and about 1.5 years of household income in retirement savings. I am also the primary breadwinner in the family, doubling my husband's income. I am terrified for the future and what I will do after this. I know when I am ready to go back to work it will not be at the same income level I was at before and I have a really hard time accepting that. But, I am trying to focus not on that, but on getting better. As someone who is obsessed with financial security and well-being it's been a struggle.

partgypsy

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #170 on: April 28, 2021, 10:09:15 AM »
I feel burned out this past year too. Not that this was the worst year workload-wise, but I was still working ft while going through cancer diagnosis and treatment, and also having both kids learning remotely, with youngest having learning difficulties. Since finishing school, other than two 8-week leave of absence for my 2 kids births, I've never taken more than a week off from work. At the same time, feeling unmotivated and not as productive as I should. And then end up working to 630 or 7 to catch up on my nonproductive time. I don't really have an answer.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 10:11:27 AM by partgypsy »

scantee

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #171 on: April 28, 2021, 10:32:31 AM »
Hello my burnt out friends. I am also burnt out.

I was doing pretty well the past year with the pandemic, my kids at home, and my relationship undergoing some turmoil. Then my father died unexpectedly earlier this year. That tipped the scales and now I just feel that I can not deal with work bullshit. It all feels especially dumb and pointless now.

I don’t hate my job, overall it’s pretty good, I’m treated and paid well. An extended break of at least 3 months but ideally more like 6 to 12 is what I really need to destress. I should reach my coast fire goal by the end of this year so I’d like to take an unpaid leave. Should they not agree I’ll have to think through whether I want to take a chance and quit. That’s what I’ve been saving for but it’s hard to think about leaving what is mostly a cushy job.

partgypsy

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #172 on: April 28, 2021, 11:31:25 AM »
My condolences scantee. My father died this year too (today is 1 year anniversary of his death). I wasn't even able to see his grave until last month, when was in town for yet another relatives death.

Glenstache

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #173 on: April 28, 2021, 12:27:55 PM »
Crispy.

use2betrix

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #174 on: April 28, 2021, 07:58:39 PM »
@GuitarStv
@lutorm
@0tp

I should provide a bit more clarity to my post. When I was hired, it was agreed to be 50 hr work weeks. I *want* to work 50 hr weeks because I am hourly and at the rate I was hired vs the job I left, that’s where it evened out. Most the project works 45 hrs, however.

To be honest, I don’t even “mind” the 55 hr weeks. It’s the sheer workload within those hours that is the problem. I have ZERO problem being busy for 10 hrs in a 10 hr day, assuming that I feel like I can adequately fulfill my responsibilities of my position.

What I am not ok with, is working 100% of my 55 hr weeks, and honestly only feel like I’m performing at 60%-70% due to the amount of things I have to completely neglect or cut corners on just to get them off my plate. I have had a very very successful career and that’s because I hold myself to high standards. Cutting corners and neglecting things I think are important, I’m not ok with.

My hourly rate is $120/hr, with the OT rate at $180/hr.

I.e. 15 hrs of overtime each week for 50 weeks is an added $135k/yr..

I will likely be crossing the $1MM savings/investments in the next few months pending any market crashes. I am now getting to the point of valuing my time even more.

The 50 hr weeks are good, but when they have me so insanely stressed that I can’t enjoy my “off time” that becomes quite a problem..

I did get approval to hire another engineer so I can delegate more tasks to my lead guy. It’ll likely be temporary to get over a hump, so that’s fine.

On another note today - since I’m over the staffing/budget for two job sites and around 20ish people between my groups, I got a spreadsheet of everyone’s bill rates.. That assured me how good of a negotiator I am... My engineers are at 80% of my pay and most the other personnel are at 65% of my pay.. I used a LOT of leverage for this job.

lutorm

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #175 on: April 28, 2021, 11:24:14 PM »
What I am not ok with, is working 100% of my 55 hr weeks, and honestly only feel like I’m performing at 60%-70% due to the amount of things I have to completely neglect or cut corners on just to get them off my plate. I have had a very very successful career and that’s because I hold myself to high standards. Cutting corners and neglecting things I think are important, I’m not ok with.
Holding high standards is good. You decide what high standards are and how you perform to them is something that is within your control. How much work your employer wants you to do is not, however, within your control.

If you managed to amazingly double your performance and get twice as much stuff done, do you think your employer would say "use2betrix gets so much done already, we shouldn't ask him to do more?" Unlikely. Rather, it is up to you to say no.

Saying no to more work than you can do in a healthy amount of time is not "lowering your standards", it's protecting your mental and physical health (which is in the long-term interests of your employer, too, but they have no way of knowing what's too much unless you put your foot down.)

I'm reminded of the quote by Warren Buffett:
Quote
The difference between successful people and really successful people is that really successful people say no to almost everything.

partgypsy

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #176 on: April 29, 2021, 03:46:22 AM »
I am reminded of, a couple highly productive people in my department. One high level statistician, and other it, both working on multiple projects. In both cases they did their work but also gave feedback re: workloads, advance notice, spillage or expansion of work. Basically, letting the supervisors or PIs know they don't have a limitless budget of time, that there are consequences to adding this or that, was part of their job and just as critical to the success of the project. Versus saying yes, yes, yes, and things falling down.

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #177 on: April 29, 2021, 04:30:15 AM »
I have been thinking about this post a lot.... i know everyone is different, but one thing that has really helped me is committing to taking all of my provided time off through my work. I’m lucky enough to be able to take 6 weeks annually, and I make sure I do, even when I don’t think I need it. Because I never regret the opportunity to rest and recharge. In my experience, taking it before you *need* it seems to work best.

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #178 on: April 29, 2021, 06:18:28 AM »
I was in a position for a long time where time off had to be approved by department managers.  I was never able to take as much as I earned and ended up with a big payout when I left there  They uses to encourage people to sell it back.  2020 was the worst because they furloughed people so the rest of us had to do more with less and didn't get any time off for a while.

In my new position I did not get a spring break because the college didn't want students travelling, so I have not had time off since January and have had to do some work stuff on weekends, etc. One more week until summer though!!!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 09:10:13 AM by Morning Glory »

GuitarStv

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #179 on: April 29, 2021, 08:01:06 AM »
To be honest, I don’t even “mind” the 55 hr weeks. It’s the sheer workload within those hours that is the problem. I have ZERO problem being busy for 10 hrs in a 10 hr day, assuming that I feel like I can adequately fulfill my responsibilities of my position.

What I am not ok with, is working 100% of my 55 hr weeks, and honestly only feel like I’m performing at 60%-70% due to the amount of things I have to completely neglect or cut corners on just to get them off my plate. I have had a very very successful career and that’s because I hold myself to high standards. Cutting corners and neglecting things I think are important, I’m not ok with.

You should mind working 55 hour work weeks - at least this is very true if your job entails any sort of creative thinking.  Productivity tends to drop the longer you spend at work.  Your non-working time because less relaxing and this directly impacts your time in the office.  So you might be working as hard as you can, but the extra hours that you're putting in aren't reaping the rewards they should be.  Saying 'no' to unreasonable working conditions often improves the quality of your work as well.  Fewer things get forgotten, fewer ideas remain half-developed, you have more energy to throw yourself into better planning for the future rather than rushing to put out fire after fire.

No single employee can do the job of two.  But I've often found myself in work environments where one person is expected to 'pick up the slack' when another person is fired or laid off.  You first have to accept that this is not possible, and you next need to ask your manager to help you prioritize what he/she actually wants done.  If you try to do too much you will fail every time - not because of a problem with who you are, but because there are limits to what is humanly possible in a day.  This isn't advice to give up, and it's always good to shoot for high goals . . . but what you're describing in your posts strongly sounds like simply taking on too much work to me.

At the end of the day, everyone in the work place wants to take from you.  There's only one person who will ever advocate for your own needs - and that's you.  You need to find the inner strength to push back against unreasonable requests or you'll never find a reasonable work/life balance.  While accumulating money is great . . . I'd rather be happy on a daily basis and make less money than miserable every day and make more.  If you fail to develop your non-work skills/hobbies/life you may find yourself seriously hurting when you've accumulated enough money to quit your job and do what you want.  Don't be one of those people who doesn't actually know what they want to do!

StarBright

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #180 on: April 29, 2021, 08:35:30 AM »
I am HR adjacent/HR by default because I work for a small company. I had a long chat with my boss yesterday about the burnout amongst our team managers.

We've had a group of six working at least time and half for the last year + to keep everything running and folks are starting to get crazy eyed and snappish. You can hear the burnout in their voices and see it on their faces. Of course, this is the same group who never takes their vacation time or their time doesn't get approved.

Yesterday boss agreed to do staggered 4 day work weeks for this group over the summer. It should work out that folks gets at least 5 extra three day weekends. It will be imposed from the top down, as opposed to offering the "choice" of vacation time. And it will be for everyone at the team leader level so no one should worry about another manager getting a better bonus or raise at the end of the year based on "skipping" vacation.  I am hoping it is proactive enough to stave off people quitting and help them reset.

My boss can be a major pill, but I'm thankful that he listened to me! And now I just have to hope he doesn't panic about people taking time off and change his mind before I announce it next week.

Flat9MKE

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #181 on: June 08, 2021, 03:29:43 PM »
Those of us who burnout do so because of a series of LEARNED patterns of behaviour that set us up to burnout, namely a value system where we consider our personal well being to be a resource worth sacrificing for the desired outcomes of our superiors.

This was so profound, it hit me like a gut punch. It was exactly what I needed to read last night, the day before I finally gave notice at work. Thank you.

Ditto.  I actually teared up a little.  MalCat is a really articulate writer!


Metalcat

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #182 on: June 08, 2021, 04:02:48 PM »
Those of us who burnout do so because of a series of LEARNED patterns of behaviour that set us up to burnout, namely a value system where we consider our personal well being to be a resource worth sacrificing for the desired outcomes of our superiors.

This was so profound, it hit me like a gut punch. It was exactly what I needed to read last night, the day before I finally gave notice at work. Thank you.

Ditto.  I actually teared up a little.  MalCat is a really articulate writer!

Yeah, I tend to make people cry. Like, way more than a normal person.


GodlessCommie

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #183 on: June 08, 2021, 04:43:11 PM »
Quote
I did that for too long with my previous high stress job and I think it has temporarily broken my brain. It's a bummer because I changed jobs last summer thinking it would help but instead I'm just doing terribly at my new job and feeling massively burned out. The new job is lower pressure and way lower stakes but I think I'm just not capable of what I normally would be right now.
This describes where I am perfectly. I "downshifted" to a low stress job, but I'm not doing anywhere as well as I could before. I do feel like my brain is broken, but I wrote it off as not being disciplined enough, too much social media, etc. I once had to introduce (or, rather, nominate) my good friend, and... I forgot her name. Wrote it off to the pressure of speaking in public, but I've done it before regularly, and never with such results. There were less visible memory lapses, too. I struggle to wrap my mind around concepts that were simple for the former me.

I'm pretty sure it's not all work, though. I tend to say yes to all sorts of volunteer asks, then inevitable end up in too many leadership positions, then cannot perform them all well, and it sets off a downward spiral.

So, thank you to OP, to all the other contributors, and to @Malcat for sharing their stories and for good insights. At least I now know to take it seriously.

Morning Glory

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #184 on: June 08, 2021, 06:47:30 PM »
Quote
I did that for too long with my previous high stress job and I think it has temporarily broken my brain. It's a bummer because I changed jobs last summer thinking it would help but instead I'm just doing terribly at my new job and feeling massively burned out. The new job is lower pressure and way lower stakes but I think I'm just not capable of what I normally would be right now.
This describes where I am perfectly. I "downshifted" to a low stress job, but I'm not doing anywhere as well as I could before. I do feel like my brain is broken, but I wrote it off as not being disciplined enough, too much social media, etc. I once had to introduce (or, rather, nominate) my good friend, and... I forgot her name. Wrote it off to the pressure of speaking in public, but I've done it before regularly, and never with such results. There were less visible memory lapses, too. I struggle to wrap my mind around concepts that were simple for the former me.

I'm pretty sure it's not all work, though. I tend to say yes to all sorts of volunteer asks, then inevitable end up in too many leadership positions, then cannot perform them all well, and it sets off a downward spiral.

So, thank you to OP, to all the other contributors, and to @Malcat for sharing their stories and for good insights. At least I now know to take it seriously.

The memory problems happened to me too. I'm hoping to do a better job when I go back after the break. I was extra stressed with marriage and family issues too. Don't know how to fix that one.

Archipelago

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #185 on: June 08, 2021, 07:06:21 PM »
Find another employer with less responsibility/stress levels for a pay cut ($160k to $120k maybe? I don't know the exact figures) and better work life balance? Smaller firm? There's a strong market for your skills, and lots of places looking to hire people like you.

Raenia

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #186 on: June 09, 2021, 05:18:40 AM »
What do you do when the burnout isn't work-driven?  These days, work is just about the only thing that's not stressing me out, and I've hit the point of spending multiple days in a week on the edge of tears just trying to drag myself through.  Just had three days in a row where I had to retreat to the bed and curl up and just lay there until I felt like I could pull myself together.  And I "have to" pull myself together - there's things that need to be done, and no one else to do them.  Trying to unpack at the new apartment, trying to get the house on the market, trying to get dinner on the table, trying to give pills and ear drops to the cat multiple times a day, trying to contact family often enough that they know we're still alive.

DH is just as burned out as I am - he's been having memory issues, poor sleep, etc.  So I can't ask him to take something off my plate.  These aren't things we can ask family for help with; though we weren't shy about getting help with the move and some unpacking, we've hit the point where more people is more hinderance than help.

Even before the move, I'd already given up most of my hobbies to free up time and mental space for "more important" things.  Since the move, I haven't even been able to focus on reading serious books, I've been reading fluff just to take my mind away for an hour.

Cognitively, I know things will get better once the apartment is unpacked and the house sold, but emotionally, it feels like it will never end.  And really, even once the urgent things are taken care of, that should take us to what would have been a sustainable level, but will it really take us down to a recovery level?  And that's assuming we make it that far without doing permanent damage to our bodies, minds, or marriage.

Metalcat

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #187 on: June 09, 2021, 06:34:39 AM »
What do you do when the burnout isn't work-driven?  These days, work is just about the only thing that's not stressing me out, and I've hit the point of spending multiple days in a week on the edge of tears just trying to drag myself through.  Just had three days in a row where I had to retreat to the bed and curl up and just lay there until I felt like I could pull myself together.  And I "have to" pull myself together - there's things that need to be done, and no one else to do them.  Trying to unpack at the new apartment, trying to get the house on the market, trying to get dinner on the table, trying to give pills and ear drops to the cat multiple times a day, trying to contact family often enough that they know we're still alive.

DH is just as burned out as I am - he's been having memory issues, poor sleep, etc.  So I can't ask him to take something off my plate.  These aren't things we can ask family for help with; though we weren't shy about getting help with the move and some unpacking, we've hit the point where more people is more hinderance than help.

Even before the move, I'd already given up most of my hobbies to free up time and mental space for "more important" things.  Since the move, I haven't even been able to focus on reading serious books, I've been reading fluff just to take my mind away for an hour.

Cognitively, I know things will get better once the apartment is unpacked and the house sold, but emotionally, it feels like it will never end.  And really, even once the urgent things are taken care of, that should take us to what would have been a sustainable level, but will it really take us down to a recovery level?  And that's assuming we make it that far without doing permanent damage to our bodies, minds, or marriage.

You do the same thing as someone who is burnt out from work. You treat it like the medical emergency that it is and urgently take action.

Seek appropriate medical care and remove things off of your plate.


Raenia

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #188 on: June 09, 2021, 06:46:54 AM »
What do you do when the burnout isn't work-driven?  These days, work is just about the only thing that's not stressing me out, and I've hit the point of spending multiple days in a week on the edge of tears just trying to drag myself through.  Just had three days in a row where I had to retreat to the bed and curl up and just lay there until I felt like I could pull myself together.  And I "have to" pull myself together - there's things that need to be done, and no one else to do them.  Trying to unpack at the new apartment, trying to get the house on the market, trying to get dinner on the table, trying to give pills and ear drops to the cat multiple times a day, trying to contact family often enough that they know we're still alive.

DH is just as burned out as I am - he's been having memory issues, poor sleep, etc.  So I can't ask him to take something off my plate.  These aren't things we can ask family for help with; though we weren't shy about getting help with the move and some unpacking, we've hit the point where more people is more hinderance than help.

Even before the move, I'd already given up most of my hobbies to free up time and mental space for "more important" things.  Since the move, I haven't even been able to focus on reading serious books, I've been reading fluff just to take my mind away for an hour.

Cognitively, I know things will get better once the apartment is unpacked and the house sold, but emotionally, it feels like it will never end.  And really, even once the urgent things are taken care of, that should take us to what would have been a sustainable level, but will it really take us down to a recovery level?  And that's assuming we make it that far without doing permanent damage to our bodies, minds, or marriage.

You do the same thing as someone who is burnt out from work. You treat it like the medical emergency that it is and urgently take action.

Seek appropriate medical care and remove things off of your plate.

Right, but how?  I don't have anything on my plate that's removable.  We're nowhere near FI, I can't just drop everything and take a rest for weeks or months.

- I can't stop unpacking, because a lot of my stress is from living in unfinished/under construction spaces for the last two years.  Abandoning that task will increase, not decrease, my stress.
- I can't stop preparing the house for sale.  We can't afford to pay the mortgage and our rent for months on end waiting until things "get better" - this would only make it worse by adding financial stress to the pile.
- I can't stop managing food, we need to eat and someone has to make it happen.  I'm already down to cycling a few easy meals and not doing anything complicated or fun.  We can't just eat takeout constantly, that's not healthy or sustainable, and I'm already leaning on the grocery freezer section far more than is healthy.
- I can't abandon the cat, she's a living thing that depends on me.

It's easy to say take action and take things off my plate, but I've already given up all the non-life-sustaining activities I could find.  Anything else I drop is going to either hurt me worse than it already is, or hurt someone else more than it's hurting me.

Flat9MKE

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #189 on: June 09, 2021, 08:00:31 AM »
This is a great topic and I have learned reading about people's challenges and the good advice from this community.  A few thoughts:

1. I think the FIRE community tends to be detail oriented/perfectionist/planner/straight-A student/overachiever types.  The responsibility, planning, discipline that is required to FIRE are traits of high performers. These personality traits are a strength in demanding, high pressure careers, but tend to create anxiety as a bad side effect.  We are nervous by nature.  So career burnout is almost inevitable.
 
2.  There have been some good thoughts on generational burnout (millennials, etc.).  I think a big part of general feelings of burnout are more correlated with technological advances and 24/7 connectivity.  In the 70s and 80s and 90s, no one had smart phones and hardly anyone even had cellular phones.  Maybe doctors had pagers, but that was for true emergency purposes.  Work life was better in the 80s - people had more patience and you just dealt with things on a slower pace because that was the only way to do it. The constant influx of emails, texts, rapid/instantaneous information in today's world compared to the world 25 years ago is staggering and not a good thing for work/life balance.  I love the technology, but there are bad side effects.

So naturally nervous, high performing people getting bombarded with constant information and "manufactured emergencies" (hat tip Tim Ferriss) is absolutely going to lead to burnout.

As others have said, only YOU control your life, so recognize unhealthy situations and make changes as needed (quitting, sabbaticals, boundaries, etc.).  Life is too short.



dougules

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #190 on: June 09, 2021, 08:15:54 AM »
What do you do when the burnout isn't work-driven?  These days, work is just about the only thing that's not stressing me out, and I've hit the point of spending multiple days in a week on the edge of tears just trying to drag myself through.  Just had three days in a row where I had to retreat to the bed and curl up and just lay there until I felt like I could pull myself together.  And I "have to" pull myself together - there's things that need to be done, and no one else to do them.  Trying to unpack at the new apartment, trying to get the house on the market, trying to get dinner on the table, trying to give pills and ear drops to the cat multiple times a day, trying to contact family often enough that they know we're still alive.

DH is just as burned out as I am - he's been having memory issues, poor sleep, etc.  So I can't ask him to take something off my plate.  These aren't things we can ask family for help with; though we weren't shy about getting help with the move and some unpacking, we've hit the point where more people is more hinderance than help.

Even before the move, I'd already given up most of my hobbies to free up time and mental space for "more important" things.  Since the move, I haven't even been able to focus on reading serious books, I've been reading fluff just to take my mind away for an hour.

Cognitively, I know things will get better once the apartment is unpacked and the house sold, but emotionally, it feels like it will never end.  And really, even once the urgent things are taken care of, that should take us to what would have been a sustainable level, but will it really take us down to a recovery level?  And that's assuming we make it that far without doing permanent damage to our bodies, minds, or marriage.

You do the same thing as someone who is burnt out from work. You treat it like the medical emergency that it is and urgently take action.

Seek appropriate medical care and remove things off of your plate.

Right, but how?  I don't have anything on my plate that's removable.  We're nowhere near FI, I can't just drop everything and take a rest for weeks or months.

- I can't stop unpacking, because a lot of my stress is from living in unfinished/under construction spaces for the last two years.  Abandoning that task will increase, not decrease, my stress.
- I can't stop preparing the house for sale.  We can't afford to pay the mortgage and our rent for months on end waiting until things "get better" - this would only make it worse by adding financial stress to the pile.
- I can't stop managing food, we need to eat and someone has to make it happen.  I'm already down to cycling a few easy meals and not doing anything complicated or fun.  We can't just eat takeout constantly, that's not healthy or sustainable, and I'm already leaning on the grocery freezer section far more than is healthy.
- I can't abandon the cat, she's a living thing that depends on me.

It's easy to say take action and take things off my plate, but I've already given up all the non-life-sustaining activities I could find.  Anything else I drop is going to either hurt me worse than it already is, or hurt someone else more than it's hurting me.

How long will it take before you have the apartment unpacked and the house sold?  If unpacking is that much work, could you pare back the amount of stuff you have?

Houses in a lot of areas are selling as is for over asking price right now.  Are you sure you really need to do much to get the house ready to sell? 

If this is something that's going to go on much longer you should see a doctor or a therapist.  I know that's just one more thing to do, but what you're describing is a medical problem. 

Metalcat

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #191 on: June 09, 2021, 08:20:58 AM »
What do you do when the burnout isn't work-driven?  These days, work is just about the only thing that's not stressing me out, and I've hit the point of spending multiple days in a week on the edge of tears just trying to drag myself through.  Just had three days in a row where I had to retreat to the bed and curl up and just lay there until I felt like I could pull myself together.  And I "have to" pull myself together - there's things that need to be done, and no one else to do them.  Trying to unpack at the new apartment, trying to get the house on the market, trying to get dinner on the table, trying to give pills and ear drops to the cat multiple times a day, trying to contact family often enough that they know we're still alive.

DH is just as burned out as I am - he's been having memory issues, poor sleep, etc.  So I can't ask him to take something off my plate.  These aren't things we can ask family for help with; though we weren't shy about getting help with the move and some unpacking, we've hit the point where more people is more hinderance than help.

Even before the move, I'd already given up most of my hobbies to free up time and mental space for "more important" things.  Since the move, I haven't even been able to focus on reading serious books, I've been reading fluff just to take my mind away for an hour.

Cognitively, I know things will get better once the apartment is unpacked and the house sold, but emotionally, it feels like it will never end.  And really, even once the urgent things are taken care of, that should take us to what would have been a sustainable level, but will it really take us down to a recovery level?  And that's assuming we make it that far without doing permanent damage to our bodies, minds, or marriage.

You do the same thing as someone who is burnt out from work. You treat it like the medical emergency that it is and urgently take action.

Seek appropriate medical care and remove things off of your plate.

Right, but how?  I don't have anything on my plate that's removable.  We're nowhere near FI, I can't just drop everything and take a rest for weeks or months.

- I can't stop unpacking, because a lot of my stress is from living in unfinished/under construction spaces for the last two years.  Abandoning that task will increase, not decrease, my stress.
- I can't stop preparing the house for sale.  We can't afford to pay the mortgage and our rent for months on end waiting until things "get better" - this would only make it worse by adding financial stress to the pile.
- I can't stop managing food, we need to eat and someone has to make it happen.  I'm already down to cycling a few easy meals and not doing anything complicated or fun.  We can't just eat takeout constantly, that's not healthy or sustainable, and I'm already leaning on the grocery freezer section far more than is healthy.
- I can't abandon the cat, she's a living thing that depends on me.

It's easy to say take action and take things off my plate, but I've already given up all the non-life-sustaining activities I could find.  Anything else I drop is going to either hurt me worse than it already is, or hurt someone else more than it's hurting me.

Can you take a short leave from work?
Can you temporarily hire out cooking and cleaning?
Can you recruit or hire help to unpack?

I've done some pretty radical things to get through a lot of insane burnout situations. None of what you do needs to be sustainable, just enough to get you through whatever it is you are going through.

My point is that the approach is the same as work burnout. You have to figure out what it is that you need most.

How would you handle it if you physically couldn't manage everything you are trying to do? What would you adjust?

Raenia

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #192 on: June 09, 2021, 09:33:45 AM »
How long will it take before you have the apartment unpacked and the house sold?  If unpacking is that much work, could you pare back the amount of stuff you have?

Houses in a lot of areas are selling as is for over asking price right now.  Are you sure you really need to do much to get the house ready to sell? 

If this is something that's going to go on much longer you should see a doctor or a therapist.  I know that's just one more thing to do, but what you're describing is a medical problem.

Best case a few weeks, worst case who knows.  I'm hoping for a fast sale, given how the market is right now, but our house has some unusual challenges (missing walls and even floors in some rooms, roof leak, dry rot, damaged retaining wall, etc) that make it likely not to be an easy sale.  The only preparation we're still doing is getting some junk and trash out to the dump, to prepare for the photographer.  The realtor wanted me to hire a cleaner, but that felt like massive overkill for a house with exposed floor joists.

Can you take a short leave from work?
Can you temporarily hire out cooking and cleaning?
Can you recruit or hire help to unpack?

I've done some pretty radical things to get through a lot of insane burnout situations. None of what you do needs to be sustainable, just enough to get you through whatever it is you are going through.

My point is that the approach is the same as work burnout. You have to figure out what it is that you need most.

How would you handle it if you physically couldn't manage everything you are trying to do? What would you adjust?

I'm a long-term contractor (not independent contractor, I work through a contract agency), paid hourly, and I don't have short term disability insurance, so even if I got cleared by a doctor to take leave, it would be unpaid, and unless I could get it through FMLA, I probably wouldn't have a job when I got back.  Which, since work is currently the least stressful part of my day, doesn't seem reasonable.  And that's assuming I could get a doctor to sign off on it, which is not a given since I don't have any physical symptoms (yet, I know.)  Also, while my boss has been very understanding about people deprioritizing work over the last year+, he is starting to get impatient to have us back in the office.  Since this is easily the best job I've ever had, as far as boss, work-life balance, coworkers, and the job itself, I'm not eager to lose it.

Honestly, finding someone to hire for cooking and cleaning and then managing them sounds like more effort than just doing it myself.  I did get a lot of help from my family during and after the move, including a lot of unpacking, but we've reached the stage where everything we pull out of a box requires decisions.  Where does it go?  Do we have space?  Can it go in storage?  Should we get rid of it? That's just exhausting, and not something other people can help with.  Plus most of our network lives over an hour away, so I can't just ask them to run errands or come by for an hour.

What would I do if I had a physical ailment instead?  That's a good exercise to try.  I tried writing out a few scenarios with different types of injuries/illnesses, but all of them basically boiled down to further damaging DH, overtaxing and damaging our safety net (friends and family), possibly losing my job, and making our lives permanently worse.  At least with a physical injury, it's harder to deny FMLA.  Maybe that's just my pessimism-brain talking?  Or just the US healthcare system at work.

The fact that DH is even further into burnout than I am (though I don't know if he's acknowledged his symptoms being related) complicates things.  At least I'm not (yet, I know) having the physical symptoms of memory loss, poor sleep, headaches, and muscle aches. Even before we started planning the move, we'd talked about trying to get him some leave, but his department is so small it's hard to get approved.  I don't dare do anything that's going to add to his load, and he has a lot of financial anxiety.

The more I write out, the more it feels like I just have to manage to tread water for another 3-4-ish weeks until we can get the house sold, and hope for the best.  Anything I try to change right now risks making something worse.

StarBright

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #193 on: June 09, 2021, 10:05:17 AM »

Honestly, finding someone to hire for cooking and cleaning and then managing them sounds like more effort than just doing it myself.


This is a small thing - but do you have a costco membership? Pre-prepped costco food has been a lifesaver for me a couple times this year. One week I bought stuffed peppers, street tacos, a chicken, some pasta thing and several bags of salad. It was sort of fresh food, no thought, and almost no prep, and decently priced.

I have weeks where I just can't make a menu anymore (let alone cook and then clean up the dishes) on top of everything else. Giving myself permission to do costco or meal kits has helped.

GodlessCommie

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #194 on: June 09, 2021, 11:13:06 AM »
we've reached the stage where everything we pull out of a box requires decisions.
I just wanted to acknowledge that decisions, even small ones, are taxing. I read somewhere that the real limiting factor for many people is their ability to make decisions, and in stressful situations it shrinks more than anything else.

Is there anyone in your life who lives nearby and you can ask for help? At least for me, asking is difficult, but what I found is that when I find courage to ask, it is always well-received. It's not always a "yes" (although most often it is), but even in refusal people are gracious and understanding.

Roots&Wings

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #195 on: June 09, 2021, 11:18:56 AM »

Honestly, finding someone to hire for cooking and cleaning and then managing them sounds like more effort than just doing it myself.


This is a small thing - but do you have a costco membership? Pre-prepped costco food has been a lifesaver for me a couple times this year. One week I bought stuffed peppers, street tacos, a chicken, some pasta thing and several bags of salad. It was sort of fresh food, no thought, and almost no prep, and decently priced.

I have weeks where I just can't make a menu anymore (let alone cook and then clean up the dishes) on top of everything else. Giving myself permission to do costco or meal kits has helped.

Right, prepared meals from any grocery store could possibly help here, pay for the grocery delivery if that'd help. With your house sale and the condition described, it doesn't sound like this is worth stressing over; it'll sell as a fixer regardless. The house sale is pressure you're putting on yourself, can you see that?

There's always a choice in these situations, though it can be hard to see when you're completely overwhelmed and unable to step back and see the big picture, which is where talking to someone can really help.

Taking back control is an actionable step for burnout treatment: https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/burnout-recovery#control

Here's another burnout recovery article that I've been keeping open on my work computer as a reminder: https://www.helpguide.org/articles/stress/burnout-prevention-and-recovery.htm

TwoCommas

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #196 on: June 09, 2021, 11:39:44 AM »
Very intrigued to read this many stories that share so much similarity to my own situation...not just in details of work and mental health impacts but also age (38).

Thank you all for sharing your stories and solution/remedies so openly.

For me, I think 2020 just pushed everything slowly over the cliff and the result seems like a never-ending free fall. The over-connectivity while working from home and lack of shutting down (boundaries) really took its toll. And like mentioned multiple times previously, a week off is like bailing water from a sinking ship with a ladle.

Raenia

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #197 on: June 09, 2021, 12:47:16 PM »
Thank you everyone.  I don't have a Costco, but I do have BJ's which I assume has similar offerings.  I'll see if there's anything I can use to further pare down our food routine for the next few weeks.  I realized that in preparation for the move, we ate through all of my frozen batch cooking and a lot of pantry ingredients as well - this should serve as a substitute for freezer chili, soups, and curries until I have the time and energy to rebuild that buffer.  I do already get a produce delivery every other week, but I can probably up that to every week for the next month or two.  I can accept a budget overage for a few months to give us a break, until the temporary stresses are gone and we've recovered enough that I'm finding joy in cooking again.

I'll take a look at those links, @Roots&Wings, thanks.

Thanks @GodlessCommie, I appreciate that.  It really is the constant decision making that's frying my brain the last few weeks.  After a day of where does this go, when can I meet the realtor, what groceries to order in the delivery box, and when do I have time to call my mother, "What's for dinner" is just one question too many.  Last night we gave in and ordered Indian, then 5 minutes later I get a call that even though their website said they delivered to our area, they actually don't, and can we do pickup instead?  The thought of having to put on real clothes, get in the car, and drive through the rain was just not ok.

My sister lives fairly close, but she is a nurse on a crazy schedule, so it's been hard to find days when she's not working, and also not sleeping to recover from working nights.  My mom lives 2 hours away, my dad 3 hours, FIL 1.5, MIL about 1.  All of them have helped out through the move, and with unpacking (my mom and sister were especially helpful organizing the kitchen cabinets), but none are close enough just to pop by to help with dinner.  They're all happy to help when they can, but have their own full time jobs and busy schedules.

Unfortunately a lot of what needs to be done - filling out disclosure forms, talking to realtors and lawyers, choosing what to do with personal items - can't really be delegated.

Roots&Wings

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #198 on: June 09, 2021, 02:46:57 PM »
^ Ex-realtor here. It'll depend on your location, but there's probably an option to designate an agent authorization to sign on your behalf (except the seller disclosure) if you don't want to deal with the paperwork. Maybe ask your realtor about this and let them know that you need to minimize your involvement with the sale and paperwork.

Good luck @Raenia! It sounds like selling your house and getting settled into your new place will be really positive steps in the long-run. Taking care of yourself with the food and letting others know what's going on will hopefully help relieve some of the immediate stress.

EDIT: just to clarify, it was fairly common practice to sign on a client's behalf (with confirmation of agent authority) if they're overseas/in another location or busy with work/family obligations, but again, depends on your location. Would letting your realtor know that you need to minimize all involvement with the sale (due to family obligations, or whatever reason you're comfortable giving if you feel you need to give a reason) help to relieve some stress?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 04:41:11 PM by Roots&Wings »

Raenia

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Re: Feeling burned out. Anyone else?
« Reply #199 on: June 09, 2021, 05:55:38 PM »
^ Ex-realtor here. It'll depend on your location, but there's probably an option to designate an agent authorization to sign on your behalf (except the seller disclosure) if you don't want to deal with the paperwork. Maybe ask your realtor about this and let them know that you need to minimize your involvement with the sale and paperwork.

Good luck @Raenia! It sounds like selling your house and getting settled into your new place will be really positive steps in the long-run. Taking care of yourself with the food and letting others know what's going on will hopefully help relieve some of the immediate stress.

EDIT: just to clarify, it was fairly common practice to sign on a client's behalf (with confirmation of agent authority) if they're overseas/in another location or busy with work/family obligations, but again, depends on your location. Would letting your realtor know that you need to minimize all involvement with the sale (due to family obligations, or whatever reason you're comfortable giving if you feel you need to give a reason) help to relieve some stress?

Thanks for the reminder.  I did know it was possible - when we bought the house, the previous owners didn't show up to closing as they lived out of state - but it hadn't occurred to me in our context.  I'll have to ask if it's possible in this case.  Might not be, since we're going to need to bring a substantial amount of money to closing to clear the mortgage if we get what they're expecting.  Even if we get lucky and sell for the mortgage balance, we'll still be paying commission and transfer taxes (city tax on property sales).

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!