Author Topic: Fed employees - shutdown stories  (Read 27743 times)

sol

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #300 on: January 10, 2019, 10:46:17 AM »
So we're rapidly approaching the 21 day all time record for longest government shutdown in US history, and Trump is saying he is "almost definitely" going to declare a national emergency.  Which, as we've previously discusses, is probably his only face-saving way to re-open the government without getting any border wall funding.

I'm still trying to decided if the 21 day record is a good motivator or not.  Like is Trump eager to avoid being responsible for the longest shutdown in history, or is he eager to BE responsible for the longest shutdown in history?  Like he has the biggest hands, and the best words, and the tallest buildings, and he has spent his life counterfactually bragging about having all kinds of personal records.  Is "longest shutdown" just another shiny prize for his metaphorical trophy case?  Or is it something he fears will tarnish he reputation?  I'm still on the fence on this one. 

nereo

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #301 on: January 10, 2019, 11:07:55 AM »
I'm still trying to decided if the 21 day record is a good motivator or not.  Like is Trump eager to avoid being responsible for the longest shutdown in history, or is he eager to BE responsible for the longest shutdown in history?  Like he has the biggest hands, and the best words, and the tallest buildings, and he has spent his life counterfactually bragging about having all kinds of personal records.  Is "longest shutdown" just another shiny prize for his metaphorical trophy case?  Or is it something he fears will tarnish he reputation?  I'm still on the fence on this one.

Thankfully (?) we won't have to wonder for long.  If the shutdown continues past Friday we can be assured that Trump didn't care much about having the longest shutdown on his watch.  If it ends suddenly tomorrow (particularly if a compromise is reached) I will be convinced that he feared the hit that the 'longest shutdown in history' would do to his self-proclaimed title of 'the greatest negotiator'.

Sadly, given his previous declarations I tend to think he won't be deterred by adding "longest shutdown" to his political record.  But then again I'm in a very pessimistic mood as the effects on this shutdown screw over my colleagues.

the_fixer

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #302 on: January 10, 2019, 11:14:46 AM »


Schumer, Pelosi, Trump, McConnell and all of them need to be held accountable by everyone instead of throwing stones at each other.

Great idea.  I hold Schumer and Pelosi responsible for passing budget bills that open the government and fund border security, which they have done.

I hold McConnell responsible for refusing to advance those bills in the Senate, even after they've already passed with unanimous consent.

I hold Trump responsible for stopping the bipartisan congressional budget setting process by threatening a veto.  Because that's what he did.

Then I hold McConnell responsible a second time, for refusing to allow the Senate to override Trump's veto with a 2/3 majority.

I do not disagree other than Schumer and Pelosi are just as dug in and childish as Trump, they have decided and announced multiple times that they will not put any money towards the wall. I see this as them not doing it becuase they feel it is the proper thing but simply to disrupt Trump and stop him at all costs just as Trump is unwilling to pass anything without wall funding.

This is a disservice to the American people and the Immigrants caught in the middle. We elect leaders to lead, discuss, compromise and come up with real solutions that represent the will of the entire country and not to play a big game of chicken while waiting to see who will blink first.

Some people want a wall others want open borders and I am guessing the majority of people (like me) are somewhere between the two extremes and we should all be represented and thus we all compromise a little but that is not the case here.

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swinginbeef

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #303 on: January 10, 2019, 11:27:01 AM »
I do not disagree other than Schumer and Pelosi are just as dug in and childish as Trump

I agree with this but I don't think it's a "stop Trump at all costs" thing. Watching them fight off smiles in their little press conferences makes me think they believe a strong majority of Americans agree with them so they just keep feeding Trump rope until he hangs himself. Keep poking at him, believing that the more frustrated he gets, the dumber he looks. "That's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off..."

nereo

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #304 on: January 10, 2019, 11:31:37 AM »


Schumer, Pelosi, Trump, McConnell and all of them need to be held accountable by everyone instead of throwing stones at each other.

Great idea.  I hold Schumer and Pelosi responsible for passing budget bills that open the government and fund border security, which they have done.

I hold McConnell responsible for refusing to advance those bills in the Senate, even after they've already passed with unanimous consent.

I hold Trump responsible for stopping the bipartisan congressional budget setting process by threatening a veto.  Because that's what he did.

Then I hold McConnell responsible a second time, for refusing to allow the Senate to override Trump's veto with a 2/3 majority.

I do not disagree other than Schumer and Pelosi are just as dug in and childish as Trump, they have decided and announced multiple times that they will not put any money towards the wall. I see this as them not doing it becuase they feel it is the proper thing but simply to disrupt Trump and stop him at all costs just as Trump is unwilling to pass anything without wall funding.

I do not understand how passing a CR bill which includes additional money for border security could be considered 'childish' on the part of Schumer and Pelosi.

On a similar note, could you explain to me why additional funding for anything should be an uncompromisable point when seeking a continuing resolution?  From my perspective such a project should be part of a bill debated and passed by congress.  Ideally it would be part of a budget.  That's one of the core duties of congress outlined in the US Constitution (Section 8, clause 1: taxing and spending). We had a GOP controlled House and Senate for 2 years, and they did not authorize money for a border wall.  Full funding was even offered at one point in exchange for a solution to DACA, but that got rejected. Indeed, we've had two earlier shutdowns which both ended with no border wall funding.

If Congress has been unwilling to provide funding for a wall for the last two years, and the WH rejected a compromise to grant 5x the funding it now seeks, how does the argument that we must have border wall money before the shutdown can be ended hold water? Why is it imperative now when it was not critical during the shutdowns in January and Februrary of last year, nor important enough to pass through congress under normal spending bills at any point during the previous two years?

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #305 on: January 10, 2019, 11:38:52 AM »
I understand that last year's bill provided 1 point something billion towards a wall that hasn't been spent.  Is that money still available without further authorisation?

One way out might be to have a Bill that says "X billion for border security to include physical infrastructure where this provides best value for money as audited by [independent auditor]".   I mean, there's all sorts of ways out of this impasse provided you have a President with a modicum of intelligence and negotiating savvy or Presidential advisers with good sense and the tiniest bit of influence over him.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 11:40:51 AM by former player »

sol

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #306 on: January 10, 2019, 11:46:03 AM »
I do not disagree other than Schumer and Pelosi are just as dug in and childish as Trump, they have decided and announced multiple times that they will not put any money towards the wall.

Schumer and Pelosi both have decades of experience in congress in finding compromise solutions.  If Trump doesn't just give up, and declare a national emergency that he knows will get struck down in the courst, then they will find a way to give him at least some wall funding in exchange for other fixes.  The problem isn't that the democrats aren't willing to give him any wall funding, because I think they will under the right conditions, it's that republicans haven't yet offered them anything in return.  This is supposed to be a negotiation, not a list of demands.  If you want billions for wall funding, you're supposed to offer billions for a democratic priority to go with it.  That way all sides get to declare victory (except for the budget deficit people, who always seem to lose these negotiations).

Quote
Some people want a wall others want open borders

I've never met a single person who wants "open borders".  That's just a catch phrase, a straw man, a worst case scenario that far-right nationalists apply to anyone who recognizes the complexity of our immigration system, in order to paint them as evil.  No one is suggesting tearing down existing walls.  No is asking to allow terrorists or drugs into the country.  Everyone agrees that our border needs protecting, it's just that some people only want an ineffective symbolic border wall and some people want real immigration reform that controls who comes to America.  I think the resolution to this shutdown is going to make congressional democrats look like the responsible party that actually wants to protect our borders, and make Trump look stupid for asking for an ineffective solution that his most racist supports think is funny. 


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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #307 on: January 10, 2019, 11:49:03 AM »
Now I hear that the FDA will stop food inspections. Maybe a few dozen e-coli related deaths will make an impact on Trump to accept the Dems (very reasonable IMHO) border security package but I fear it won't . When you have the bigliest hands of everyone everywhere you don't need to back down. Plus apparently the 800,000 unpaid feds understand that getting paid is not as important as building a wall so completely support him and are happy to go without pay.

The "highest risk" locations will continue to get food inspections.

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #308 on: January 10, 2019, 11:50:18 AM »

Quote
Some people want a wall others want open borders

I've never met a single person who wants "open borders".  That's just a catch phrase, a straw man, a worst case scenario that far-right nationalists apply to anyone who recognizes the complexity of our immigration system, in order to paint them as evil. 

I have heard "open borders" stated by a few (very few) libertarians.

SKL-HOU

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #309 on: January 10, 2019, 12:16:23 PM »
This is absolute madness from an outsider point of view. I can't imagine many kiwi staff would work for nothing. Mind you, I can't actually imagine our gov shutting down. If it did, though, I guarantee it would be treated as BBQ days. No one would be at work.

As a former Aussie public servant, I remain equally baffled - especially for the people who are told they still need to come in. I mean, work is getting paid to do something you wouldn’t otherwise do. If I’m not getting paid*, then why would any employer think they could demand I work anyway? I certainly wouldn’t be, not unless they have a legal order conscripting me to work for free.

*here meaning a guaranteed payment in a timely manner and as per the conditions under which I accepted my job
A lot of the jobs are considered "essential" and it would be dangerous for the public if they shutdown. Think Air Traffic Controllers, Federal prison guards and other law enforcement fields, federal medical facilities, first responders, etc. I was in the Coast Guard and went thru a few short term shutdowns and had to continue working with no pay. It was a PITA but pay was retroactive...eventually. The longest shutdown I can remember was about a month in the mid-1990s. Most others have been short lived.

I understand the mechanism (identifying the necessary employees); I don’t understand how threatening people’s jobs to work for pay they don’t know for sure if, let alone when, they will receive is right or justified.

Employment is a two way street; the employee does a job and the employer pays them. If the employer (in this case the federal government) isn’t keeping up its side of the deal, then why is there an obligation for the employee to do so?

Besides, it’s not like the money can’t be sourced, it’s that various individuals and factions are refusing to do so for their own reasons. Well, not paying people has (or should have) consequences; why do politicians get to be protected from the political blowback of them at the expense of federal employees?

And that’s without considering that not paying people who still need to pay their own bills substantially increases the risk of corruption. But, hey. It’s not like those people forced to work for uncertain pay are the people in the crucial positions and who could do the most damage if their behaviour was increasingly corrupt.

Ah well, at least it’s not my problem.

I agree - employment is a transaction. If I don't get paid, I'm not working, end of story. I may offer to volunteer my services in one respect or another, but I won't be compelled to do so by some fat orange manchild on a personal crusade.

Now I hear that he's threatening to keep this shut down going for an extended period. There's something horrendously wrong with a system where one person can hold an entire country to ransom. He's not frickin Henry the Eighth.
Well, it's two people. McConnel won't put the house bill to a vote.

In theory, the Congress can override a veto. It won't happen anytime soon.

Madness. You know, once upon a time the USA was an enviable place to be from. Now my American colleagues tell people they're Canadian. Maybe they'll end up re-branding themselves entirely, like how people from Iran and Iraq have become Persian. Kind of sad....

I haven't finished reading the whole thread so maybe someone already corrected you. People from Iraq are not Persians, were never Persians. People from Iran were always Persians.
(I am not from either country)

kimmarg

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #310 on: January 10, 2019, 12:43:42 PM »
I don't think NOAA is part of the military...

The NOAA officer corps specifically (not all of NOAA), is one of the seven uniformed services, even though it's not one of the five branches of the military. So they operate under a lot more military-like rules than most federal workers and actually could be militarized by the president in an emergency.

I'll admit I had no idea either before we started this discussion.
I believe NOAA members can quit/walk off the job with no ramifications other than for forfiture of pay (although there may be some other ramifications I'm not aware of). The coast guard service member, like the other armed forces, can't with out being charged with AWOL (which carry very stiff penalties) and eventually (after 30 days AWOL) desertion - which can carry some pretty hefty prison terms and of course a death sentence if it happens during a war.

While of course I'm using extreme hyperbole and this wouldn't happen in a long shutdown where the CG would eventually find funding to pay it's members (maybe the DoD would temporarily fund it) its still an interesting "twist" on essential employees. I'm ex-coast guard myself but only had a few very short term shutdowns while in. The single kidless young debt and mortgage free service member usually does OK because they can eat and sleep at their unit, those with young families and a non-working spouse who are dependent have a rough time. Food stamps help as do other military service aid organizations in times like this.

So NOAA civilian employees can quit, at least in theory. NOAA corps officers cannot without dealing with the aforementioned AWOL crap.  That said most NOAA employees work in a fairly specific field (fisheries management or weather) where the Federal government is the major employer and there aren't a lot of other jobs around so in practice it would be hard to pull off. I mean they could quit and start working at Walmart but not in a similar field/pay scale/benefits.

the_fixer

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #311 on: January 10, 2019, 12:49:04 PM »
I hope you are right Sol and they can work out a deal that helps with the issue, it just seems like they as just as proud and happy to say no as Trump is.

As for the open borders and huge wall comment I was trying to point out that we have people at all levels of the spectrum and that not everyone is going to be happy that is part of compromise.

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #312 on: January 10, 2019, 01:07:10 PM »
I think Trump wants the longest shutdown record.

The part that is blowing my mind is that you need to be financially sound to get a security clearance.  The idea is, we don't want people at risk of accepting bribes.  Then you take the majority of federal law enforcement and put them on work without pay status for 20 days.  Some of those people might start getting a little desperate.  This is a major security concern.

Secret service is in work without pay status.  This is foolish. 

Also, thanks for the info about the Coast Guard.  Not something I had thought about before.

I'm also interested to see how the union FLSA claim pays out.  Private employers get sanctioned for late paychecks.  In my state it is double damages plus attorneys' fees.  Why should the government be exempt?

Nickel

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #313 on: January 10, 2019, 01:08:42 PM »
So we're rapidly approaching the 21 day all time record for longest government shutdown in US history, and Trump is saying he is "almost definitely" going to declare a national emergency.  Which, as we've previously discusses, is probably his only face-saving way to re-open the government without getting any border wall funding.

I'm still trying to decided if the 21 day record is a good motivator or not.  Like is Trump eager to avoid being responsible for the longest shutdown in history, or is he eager to BE responsible for the longest shutdown in history?  Like he has the biggest hands, and the best words, and the tallest buildings, and he has spent his life counterfactually bragging about having all kinds of personal records.  Is "longest shutdown" just another shiny prize for his metaphorical trophy case?  Or is it something he fears will tarnish he reputation?  I'm still on the fence on this one.

My prediction: If Trump does not get a face-saving compromise, he'll declare a face saving emergency (longest shutdown in history is the trigger), announce his intent to "start" reallocating funds from other sources to build the wall, reopen the government, and wait for either Congress or the courts to bail him out.  (Both parties in Congress are terrified about the long term ramifications of this potential executive power grab, and are unlikely to let it happen or continue if it does, so some kind of mutual, face-saving compromise would happen eventually).

In the unlikely event that Congress fails to fix it, and if the courts say that his "emergency" end run around Article 1, Section 8 is OK, he'll say he was vindicated.  If the courts say that the Constitution does not allow him to use a declaration of an emergency as a pretext to misappropriate other funds build a wall without authorization from Congress, Trump can then tell his supporters that the deep state liberals and idiot judges are sacrificing the "safety" of our nation (remember his ban on Muslims), and he will keep fighting (with tweets). 

Trump does not care about a wall.  He cares about using it as propaganda to manipulate his supporters. 

Nobody (other than a few crazy libertarians) wants "open borders."  By changing the term "wall" (paid for by Mexico!) to a less concrete concept of "border security," Trump and the GOP have already dumped the ingredients for compromise into the bowl.  Everybody wants "border security."  Perhaps it can be provided in part by maintaining, improving and extending some of the current walls and "barriers," most of which we would have done anyway. If Trump needs to brag about a big number, just relabel some of the giant military budget as "border security" and call it a win.   


nereo

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #314 on: January 10, 2019, 01:23:00 PM »
By changing the term "wall" (paid for by Mexico!) to a less concrete concept of "border security," Trump and the GOP have already dumped the ingredients for compromise into the bowl.  Everybody wants "border security."  Perhaps it can be provided in part by maintaining, improving and extending some of the current walls and "barriers," most of which we would have done anyway. If Trump needs to brag about a big number, just relabel some of the giant military budget as "border security" and call it a win.   
I see what you did there.

I've been spending an inordinate amount of time trying to determine how this could end quickly.  I personally think the best shot is for Dems to offer the full $5.7B for 'border security' with stipulations that it goes to personnel and drones and fortifying existing barriers but not to put barriers where they don't already exist.  Trump can crow about getting 'every penny I asked for" and make a show of turning a few miles of 20' razor-wire-topped chain link into steel slats with spikes.  The administration avoids the deluge of court filings from trying to use eminent domain on virgin (i.e. non-barrier) sections of the border and Schumer and Pelosi can tell the Dems that they held their ground on Trump's 'wall'.

Congress seems ready to pass a range of CRs - lets see if someone can convince DJT to accept an increase in border security funds with no new miles of wall.

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #315 on: January 10, 2019, 02:10:37 PM »
What's the over/under on the size of the invasion caravan that will magically appear next?

Khaetra

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #316 on: January 10, 2019, 02:36:47 PM »
What's the over/under on the size of the invasion caravan that will magically appear next?

Earlier today he was already touting the next 'caravan' that's supposedly organizing in Honduras and headed here.

It's not about The Wall, really.  The Dems offered a huge sum (I think $25B) and in return they wanted protection for the Dreamers.  He turned it down.  He had ample opportunity while having control of both the House and Senate to get money for his wall, yet only RIGHT NAO is it an emergency (how convenient since the Dems now have the House).  This is a man-baby who has probably never been told no and now is not only being told no, but being told no by a WOMAN!  It's more about control and I blame the GOP for not marching into the Oval and telling him to his face that not only is shutting down the Gov't a bad idea, but hell no pal, it ain't happening.  Border security yes, wall no.

laserlady

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #317 on: January 10, 2019, 02:45:49 PM »
In the shut down horror side of things.  The micro brewing industry is big in my town.  Apparently new beer labels will not be approved until the shutdown is over.

Well now we’ve finally found something worse than people getting paid: no new hipster beer! The Horror, the Horror.

I laughed when I read this yesterday, but today when I was riding the bus to work, I overheard a hipster loudly complaining about the beer label situation, since it's evidently the part of the shutdown that most affects (and upsets) her.   The angst is real.

former player

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #318 on: January 10, 2019, 02:58:13 PM »
In the shut down horror side of things.  The micro brewing industry is big in my town.  Apparently new beer labels will not be approved until the shutdown is over.

Well now we’ve finally found something worse than people getting paid: no new hipster beer! The Horror, the Horror.

I laughed when I read this yesterday, but today when I was riding the bus to work, I overheard a hipster loudly complaining about the beer label situation, since it's evidently the part of the shutdown that most affects (and upsets) her.   The angst is real.

Hang on a minute.  Individual beer labels have to be approved by the Federal government?  Seriously?

laserlady

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #319 on: January 10, 2019, 03:10:57 PM »
In the shut down horror side of things.  The micro brewing industry is big in my town.  Apparently new beer labels will not be approved until the shutdown is over.

Well now we’ve finally found something worse than people getting paid: no new hipster beer! The Horror, the Horror.

I laughed when I read this yesterday, but today when I was riding the bus to work, I overheard a hipster loudly complaining about the beer label situation, since it's evidently the part of the shutdown that most affects (and upsets) her.   The angst is real.

Hang on a minute.  Individual beer labels have to be approved by the Federal government?  Seriously?

Just for new labels, so the shutdown isn't affecting any older labels, but is, in essence, preventing new craft beers from being sold.  https://www.chicagotribune.com/dining/drink/beer/ct-food-beer-government-shutdown-20190107-story.html

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #320 on: January 10, 2019, 03:24:27 PM »
In the shut down horror side of things.  The micro brewing industry is big in my town.  Apparently new beer labels will not be approved until the shutdown is over.

Well now we’ve finally found something worse than people getting paid: no new hipster beer! The Horror, the Horror.

I laughed when I read this yesterday, but today when I was riding the bus to work, I overheard a hipster loudly complaining about the beer label situation, since it's evidently the part of the shutdown that most affects (and upsets) her.   The angst is real.

Hang on a minute.  Individual beer labels have to be approved by the Federal government?  Seriously?

Just for new labels, so the shutdown isn't affecting any older labels, but is, in essence, preventing new craft beers from being sold.  https://www.chicagotribune.com/dining/drink/beer/ct-food-beer-government-shutdown-20190107-story.html
Yes, but here in the UK we just have a set of rules on minimum information and nothing inappropriate, and everyone can just design their own labels in accordance with the rules with no approval needed.  Weirdly bureaucratic to have the feds have to approve each design.  Land of the free, huh?

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #321 on: January 10, 2019, 03:41:57 PM »
In the shut down horror side of things.  The micro brewing industry is big in my town.  Apparently new beer labels will not be approved until the shutdown is over.

Well now we’ve finally found something worse than people getting paid: no new hipster beer! The Horror, the Horror.

I laughed when I read this yesterday, but today when I was riding the bus to work, I overheard a hipster loudly complaining about the beer label situation, since it's evidently the part of the shutdown that most affects (and upsets) her.   The angst is real.

Hang on a minute.  Individual beer labels have to be approved by the Federal government?  Seriously?

Just for new labels, so the shutdown isn't affecting any older labels, but is, in essence, preventing new craft beers from being sold.  https://www.chicagotribune.com/dining/drink/beer/ct-food-beer-government-shutdown-20190107-story.html
Yes, but here in the UK we just have a set of rules on minimum information and nothing inappropriate, and everyone can just design their own labels in accordance with the rules with no approval needed.  Weirdly bureaucratic to have the feds have to approve each design.  Land of the free, huh?
Says the country which has strict rules on what kinds of glasses a bar can sell beer in...

Acorns

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #322 on: January 10, 2019, 04:03:32 PM »

TSA agents can't strike. They can't organize to disrupt travel. They can be imprisoned if they do. That's just the way it is, and it's been the law since the 1950s, and has been upheld by the SCOTUS several times.

TSA has only been around since Nov 2001, as a part of the Department of Homeland Security which was established in response to the attacks of 9/11. I have been trying to remember what type of security preceded the TSA checks we have become used to (I was in my late teens when 9/11 occurred, and had only flown a handful of times). Was there any screening of passengers and carry on luggage?

I ran into a friend of mine and her husband at the gym today, he is a "non-essential" FAA employee. He seemed to be enjoying his time off, but they are not the paycheck to paycheck type.

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #323 on: January 10, 2019, 04:05:07 PM »
I'm also interested to see how the union FLSA claim pays out.  Private employers get sanctioned for late paychecks.  In my state it is double damages plus attorneys' fees.  Why should the government be exempt?

The government is not exempt and lost a FLSA lawsuit over the 2013 shutdown. However, it took years to go through court, a final decision wasn’t issued until 2017. I don’t think everyone has received their damages from that lawsuit yet, so the wheels of justice are incredibly slow. Plus, double damages is only x2 minimum wage (and overtime) not paid, so for those with no overtime it’s not a ton of extra money.

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #324 on: January 10, 2019, 04:05:34 PM »
In the shut down horror side of things.  The micro brewing industry is big in my town.  Apparently new beer labels will not be approved until the shutdown is over.

Well now we’ve finally found something worse than people getting paid: no new hipster beer! The Horror, the Horror.

I laughed when I read this yesterday, but today when I was riding the bus to work, I overheard a hipster loudly complaining about the beer label situation, since it's evidently the part of the shutdown that most affects (and upsets) her.   The angst is real.

Hang on a minute.  Individual beer labels have to be approved by the Federal government?  Seriously?

Just for new labels, so the shutdown isn't affecting any older labels, but is, in essence, preventing new craft beers from being sold.  https://www.chicagotribune.com/dining/drink/beer/ct-food-beer-government-shutdown-20190107-story.html
Yes, but here in the UK we just have a set of rules on minimum information and nothing inappropriate, and everyone can just design their own labels in accordance with the rules with no approval needed.  Weirdly bureaucratic to have the feds have to approve each design.  Land of the free, huh?
Says the country which has strict rules on what kinds of glasses a bar can sell beer in...

Yes, but that's important.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #325 on: January 10, 2019, 04:07:31 PM »
What's the over/under on the size of the invasion caravan that will magically appear next?

Way too many, and they could waltz right in if the democrats had their way.

OtherJen

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #326 on: January 10, 2019, 04:20:55 PM »
In the shut down horror side of things.  The micro brewing industry is big in my town.  Apparently new beer labels will not be approved until the shutdown is over.

Well now we’ve finally found something worse than people getting paid: no new hipster beer! The Horror, the Horror.

I laughed when I read this yesterday, but today when I was riding the bus to work, I overheard a hipster loudly complaining about the beer label situation, since it's evidently the part of the shutdown that most affects (and upsets) her.   The angst is real.

Hang on a minute.  Individual beer labels have to be approved by the Federal government?  Seriously?

Just for new labels, so the shutdown isn't affecting any older labels, but is, in essence, preventing new craft beers from being sold.  https://www.chicagotribune.com/dining/drink/beer/ct-food-beer-government-shutdown-20190107-story.html

Yes. This also affects distillery labels. I know it's humorous to many here, but we actually know several people in the craft beverage industry. They can't sell product until the labels are approved, and beer doesn't have an indefinite shelf life. It could be a decent amount of lost revenue for small businesses.

nereo

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #327 on: January 10, 2019, 05:09:41 PM »
In the shut down horror side of things.  The micro brewing industry is big in my town.  Apparently new beer labels will not be approved until the shutdown is over.

Well now we’ve finally found something worse than people getting paid: no new hipster beer! The Horror, the Horror.

I laughed when I read this yesterday, but today when I was riding the bus to work, I overheard a hipster loudly complaining about the beer label situation, since it's evidently the part of the shutdown that most affects (and upsets) her.   The angst is real.

Hang on a minute.  Individual beer labels have to be approved by the Federal government?  Seriously?

Just for new labels, so the shutdown isn't affecting any older labels, but is, in essence, preventing new craft beers from being sold.  https://www.chicagotribune.com/dining/drink/beer/ct-food-beer-government-shutdown-20190107-story.html

Yes. This also affects distillery labels. I know it's humorous to many here, but we actually know several people in the craft beverage industry. They can't sell product until the labels are approved, and beer doesn't have an indefinite shelf life. It could be a decent amount of lost revenue for small businesses.
Is there anyway I could be of service?

Pizzabrewer

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #328 on: January 10, 2019, 05:23:42 PM »
What's the over/under on the size of the invasion caravan that will magically appear next?

Way too many, and they could waltz right in if the democrats had their way.

Proof that this is a troll.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #329 on: January 10, 2019, 05:33:56 PM »
While I think that having people work while not getting paid is wrong and the furlough sucks I think that the document that the coast guard put out is great.

It encourages people to not use credit and think outside the box and look at the resources you have available.

It sucks that the TSA, coast guard and others are working without pay and that so many employees are furloughed (including my wife) but kudos to the Coast Guard for putting together a common sense document for dealing with this issue.

Is it fair? HELL NO! But it is the situation we are in and they provide good common sense tips.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

How many of those proposed ways of raising money do you think are available to someone who is living and working on a coastguard ship?  Also, why are they proposing that people work other jobs when their contracts of employment prohibit them from doing so?  Supposing you aren't on a ship and are allowed to work elsewhere, how much money can you raise by babysitting?  Enough to pay a mortgage?  Enough to feed a family?  Enough to pay medical copays?  How about starting with some common sense in the White House?

This is interesting.   Which of the furloughed federal workers are not allowed to go AWOL and find other work?    Is it just the military?    I don't think NOAA is part of the military...

I'm not the military.  As I mentioned I can quit my job.  But I am essential so I am technically not allowed to take leave and if I don't show up for work I fall under our Agency's AWOL regulation which does not mean I get thrown in military prison but I would essentially forfeit 2x my pay for hours worked.  NOAA and parts of the Public Health Service are set up military style.   

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #330 on: January 10, 2019, 05:47:15 PM »
In the shut down horror side of things.  The micro brewing industry is big in my town.  Apparently new beer labels will not be approved until the shutdown is over.

Well now we’ve finally found something worse than people getting paid: no new hipster beer! The Horror, the Horror.

I laughed when I read this yesterday, but today when I was riding the bus to work, I overheard a hipster loudly complaining about the beer label situation, since it's evidently the part of the shutdown that most affects (and upsets) her.   The angst is real.

Hang on a minute.  Individual beer labels have to be approved by the Federal government?  Seriously?

Just for new labels, so the shutdown isn't affecting any older labels, but is, in essence, preventing new craft beers from being sold.  https://www.chicagotribune.com/dining/drink/beer/ct-food-beer-government-shutdown-20190107-story.html

Yes. This also affects distillery labels. I know it's humorous to many here, but we actually know several people in the craft beverage industry. They can't sell product until the labels are approved, and beer doesn't have an indefinite shelf life. It could be a decent amount of lost revenue for small businesses.

Yes, it's a big local business story in West Michigan Home to Founders, Bells and New Holland along with dozens of other medium to large craft breweries.

Omy

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #331 on: January 10, 2019, 05:53:53 PM »
Is there anybody in this group who is for open borders? The constant insistence that all democrats want open borders is simply false. But like trump, if you tell the lie long enough it becomes "fact".

nereo

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #332 on: January 10, 2019, 06:08:03 PM »

Unfortunately all your stories are exactly what Republicans/Trump supporters are happy to see go unfunded.  All this liberal, pointy-headed science is highly suspect.

Liberal point-headed science? I don't think you understand what federal scientists do. Much of it are things that are required by laws passed by congress.

I think you missed my point (and my sarcasm) entirely.

Your point is on the top of your head.

It this is supposed to be some sort of insult it's a rather weak one.
Could we stick to the topic at hand and follow the forum rules please?

BicycleB

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #333 on: January 10, 2019, 06:52:14 PM »

edit:  My partner, who is very astute, believes that this sort of situation is the inevitable consequence of political party affiliations.  McConnell has subjugated the will of the Congress to protect the individual of the Executive, because he's from the same party as the Executive.  He won't allow Congress to jam Trump up like that, making him look bad by overriding a veto even if it was 100% unanimous in both houses, because he serves the republican party first and foremost, and his branch of government second.  Her argument is that party affiliation has completely overwritten the inter-branch power balances laid out in the constitution, and that all of that hard work our framers did in structuring our three co-equal branches is irrelevant because political parties have effectively created a winner-take-all 50% majority situation in which 1 senator with 49 party members behind him controls the entire US government for the purpose of protecting their party. 

Bingo

DreamFIRE

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #334 on: January 10, 2019, 07:01:59 PM »

Unfortunately all your stories are exactly what Republicans/Trump supporters are happy to see go unfunded.  All this liberal, pointy-headed science is highly suspect.

Liberal point-headed science? I don't think you understand what federal scientists do. Much of it are things that are required by laws passed by congress.

I think you missed my point (and my sarcasm) entirely.

Your point is on the top of your head.

It this is supposed to be some sort of insult it's a rather weak one.

No, the insult was a couple posts prior to that.  I can think of some good insults, but that's not what I'm on this forum for.

I would like to stay on topic, which is what I mentioned earlier when people were bringing up unrelated comments about racism.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #335 on: January 10, 2019, 07:40:21 PM »
Is there anybody in this group who is for open borders? The constant insistence that all democrats want open borders is simply false. But like trump, if you tell the lie long enough it becomes "fact".
Hell no. My ability to earn a large income is largely predicated on how difficult it is for people with the same skills to immigrate here. If the US ever improves its terrible image abroad or implements a skill-based immigration system, I'm fucked.

SnackDog

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #336 on: January 10, 2019, 08:44:24 PM »
I'm for immigration anywhere on the planet as a basic human right.  Implement some basic controls at the borders, but don't deny humans the right to ambulate as they please.

Trump himself is pretty much a wall. Who the hell would want to enter such a messed up country, unless they were just passing through on their way to Canada?

sol

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #337 on: January 10, 2019, 08:48:44 PM »
I'm for immigration anywhere on the planet as a basic human right. 

To visit?  Sure thing.

But citizenship confers certain rights and privileges that are not universally available to everyone else.  I don't think everyone should be granted automatic citizenship in any given country just by virtue of walking there.

But in between anyone being able to visit at will, and anyone being granted citizenship, is the case of people who want to come here temporarily to work.  If they are entering into a freely agreed upon contract of services for wages, I'm not sure the free market peeps think the government should be intervening to forbid it.  That's the real questions of "illegal" immigration, whether or not these people are allowed to come here and work or not.

EnjoyIt

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #338 on: January 10, 2019, 08:50:25 PM »
So we're rapidly approaching the 21 day all time record for longest government shutdown in US history, and Trump is saying he is "almost definitely" going to declare a national emergency.  Which, as we've previously discusses, is probably his only face-saving way to re-open the government without getting any border wall funding.

I'm still trying to decided if the 21 day record is a good motivator or not.  Like is Trump eager to avoid being responsible for the longest shutdown in history, or is he eager to BE responsible for the longest shutdown in history?  Like he has the biggest hands, and the best words, and the tallest buildings, and he has spent his life counterfactually bragging about having all kinds of personal records.  Is "longest shutdown" just another shiny prize for his metaphorical trophy case?  Or is it something he fears will tarnish he reputation?  I'm still on the fence on this one.

My prediction: If Trump does not get a face-saving compromise, he'll declare a face saving emergency (longest shutdown in history is the trigger), announce his intent to "start" reallocating funds from other sources to build the wall, reopen the government, and wait for either Congress or the courts to bail him out.  (Both parties in Congress are terrified about the long term ramifications of this potential executive power grab, and are unlikely to let it happen or continue if it does, so some kind of mutual, face-saving compromise would happen eventually).

In the unlikely event that Congress fails to fix it, and if the courts say that his "emergency" end run around Article 1, Section 8 is OK, he'll say he was vindicated.  If the courts say that the Constitution does not allow him to use a declaration of an emergency as a pretext to misappropriate other funds build a wall without authorization from Congress, Trump can then tell his supporters that the deep state liberals and idiot judges are sacrificing the "safety" of our nation (remember his ban on Muslims), and he will keep fighting (with tweets). 

Trump does not care about a wall.  He cares about using it as propaganda to manipulate his supporters. 

Nobody (other than a few crazy libertarians) wants "open borders."  By changing the term "wall" (paid for by Mexico!) to a less concrete concept of "border security," Trump and the GOP have already dumped the ingredients for compromise into the bowl.  Everybody wants "border security."  Perhaps it can be provided in part by maintaining, improving and extending some of the current walls and "barriers," most of which we would have done anyway. If Trump needs to brag about a big number, just relabel some of the giant military budget as "border security" and call it a win.   

@Nickel,
It is a shame that people are glossing over your insightful comment.  I agree with you.  I don't think Trump wants a wall.  If he did he would have accepted it earlier with DACA.  There is something else on his agenda. Maybe you are spot on.  He is a master at manipulating the media.  Maybe he is doing something behind the scenes using the wall and shutdown as a distraction.  Maybe he wants legitimate immigration reform and this will bring the Democrats to the table. Maybe it is something else, but I don't believe this is all about a wall.

Classic CEO power move.  Demand something unreasonable to negotiate something else you really want.


EnjoyIt

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #339 on: January 10, 2019, 08:54:49 PM »
I'm for immigration anywhere on the planet as a basic human right. 

To visit?  Sure thing.

But citizenship confers certain rights and privileges that are not universally available to everyone else.  I don't think everyone should be granted automatic citizenship in any given country just by virtue of walking there.

But in between anyone being able to visit at will, and anyone being granted citizenship, is the case of people who want to come here temporarily to work.  If they are entering into a freely agreed upon contract of services for wages, I'm not sure the free market peeps think the government should be intervening to forbid it.  That's the real questions of "illegal" immigration, whether or not these people are allowed to come here and work or not.

Absolutely.  There are privileges to being a citizen of a country and there needs to be repercussion to being here illegally.  Personally I think we give out too many handouts to those here without permission.  We need to make it less desirable to being here illegally then no one will come here without permission.  Follow that up by making all drugs legal and viola, we have practically solved immigration and border security.

PhilB

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #340 on: January 11, 2019, 02:39:42 AM »
So we're rapidly approaching the 21 day all time record for longest government shutdown in US history, and Trump is saying he is "almost definitely" going to declare a national emergency.  Which, as we've previously discusses, is probably his only face-saving way to re-open the government without getting any border wall funding.

I'm still trying to decided if the 21 day record is a good motivator or not.  Like is Trump eager to avoid being responsible for the longest shutdown in history, or is he eager to BE responsible for the longest shutdown in history?  Like he has the biggest hands, and the best words, and the tallest buildings, and he has spent his life counterfactually bragging about having all kinds of personal records.  Is "longest shutdown" just another shiny prize for his metaphorical trophy case?  Or is it something he fears will tarnish he reputation?  I'm still on the fence on this one.

My prediction: If Trump does not get a face-saving compromise, he'll declare a face saving emergency (longest shutdown in history is the trigger), announce his intent to "start" reallocating funds from other sources to build the wall, reopen the government, and wait for either Congress or the courts to bail him out.  (Both parties in Congress are terrified about the long term ramifications of this potential executive power grab, and are unlikely to let it happen or continue if it does, so some kind of mutual, face-saving compromise would happen eventually).

In the unlikely event that Congress fails to fix it, and if the courts say that his "emergency" end run around Article 1, Section 8 is OK, he'll say he was vindicated.  If the courts say that the Constitution does not allow him to use a declaration of an emergency as a pretext to misappropriate other funds build a wall without authorization from Congress, Trump can then tell his supporters that the deep state liberals and idiot judges are sacrificing the "safety" of our nation (remember his ban on Muslims), and he will keep fighting (with tweets). 

Trump does not care about a wall.  He cares about using it as propaganda to manipulate his supporters. 

Nobody (other than a few crazy libertarians) wants "open borders."  By changing the term "wall" (paid for by Mexico!) to a less concrete concept of "border security," Trump and the GOP have already dumped the ingredients for compromise into the bowl.  Everybody wants "border security."  Perhaps it can be provided in part by maintaining, improving and extending some of the current walls and "barriers," most of which we would have done anyway. If Trump needs to brag about a big number, just relabel some of the giant military budget as "border security" and call it a win.   

@Nickel,
It is a shame that people are glossing over your insightful comment.  I agree with you.  I don't think Trump wants a wall.  If he did he would have accepted it earlier with DACA.  There is something else on his agenda. Maybe you are spot on.  He is a master at manipulating the media.  Maybe he is doing something behind the scenes using the wall and shutdown as a distraction.  Maybe he wants legitimate immigration reform and this will bring the Democrats to the table. Maybe it is something else, but I don't believe this is all about a wall.

Classic CEO power move.  Demand something unreasonable to negotiate something else you really want.
How about this for a possible evil plan - engineer a shutdown deliberately, then allow piecemeal legislation to to finance those bits of goverment you actually like, eg the coastguard bill, until all that's left unfunded are the bits you hated in the first place like science funding and simply starve them out of existence...

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #341 on: January 11, 2019, 03:10:04 AM »
I'm for immigration anywhere on the planet as a basic human right. 

To visit?  Sure thing.

But citizenship confers certain rights and privileges that are not universally available to everyone else.  I don't think everyone should be granted automatic citizenship in any given country just by virtue of walking there.

But in between anyone being able to visit at will, and anyone being granted citizenship, is the case of people who want to come here temporarily to work.  If they are entering into a freely agreed upon contract of services for wages, I'm not sure the free market peeps think the government should be intervening to forbid it.  That's the real questions of "illegal" immigration, whether or not these people are allowed to come here and work or not.

Absolutely.  There are privileges to being a citizen of a country and there needs to be repercussion to being here illegally.  Personally I think we give out too many handouts to those here without permission.  We need to make it less desirable to being here illegally then no one will come here without permission.  Follow that up by making all drugs legal and viola, we have practically solved immigration and border security.

It's not that desirable to be there legally, imho, and rapidly getting less so.

accolay

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #342 on: January 11, 2019, 03:20:42 AM »
I don't have a personal story but surprise! No supervision brings out the best in humans:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-shutdown-national-parks-transform-into-wild-west-%e2%80%94-heavily-populated-and-barely-supervised/ar-BBRGXeI?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/01/us/government-shutdown-national-parks-toilets-services/index.html

I wonder how many sites will be vandalized? I pick up enough trash when I visit The Parks already, I can't imagine how bad it's getting with nobody watching. No fucking honor. I wish the parks would all just close the gates.

So, the actual articles are indicating the opposite of what you say. Citizens are voluntarily taking out the trash and cleaning the bathrooms.

The only thread of shutdown is the inability of the volunteers to empty the pit toilets. That's not a behavior issue.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/joshua-tree-national-park-has-been-trashed-in-the-shutdown-now-visitors-are-cutting-down-trees/ar-BBS5jSo

I rest my case?

Quote
We had some pretty extensive four-wheel driving around the entire area to access probably our most significant tree in the park

People are shit.




nereo

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #343 on: January 11, 2019, 06:21:05 AM »

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/joshua-tree-national-park-has-been-trashed-in-the-shutdown-now-visitors-are-cutting-down-trees/ar-BBS5jSo

I rest my case?

Quote
We had some pretty extensive four-wheel driving around the entire area to access probably our most significant tree in the park

People are shit.

I've lived near and have worked in several National Parks, and there's always some vocal individuals complaining about rules and regulations, saying how this is 'public land' yada yada yada.  It's never hard to find reasons why these limitations are in place.

SnackDog

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #344 on: January 11, 2019, 06:36:51 AM »
To visit?  Sure thing.

But citizenship confers certain rights and privileges that are not universally available to everyone else.  I don't think everyone should be granted automatic citizenship in any given country just by virtue of walking there.

But in between anyone being able to visit at will, and anyone being granted citizenship, is the case of people who want to come here temporarily to work.  If they are entering into a freely agreed upon contract of services for wages, I'm not sure the free market peeps think the government should be intervening to forbid it.  That's the real questions of "illegal" immigration, whether or not these people are allowed to come here and work or not.

I didn't mention citizenship but that works for me if they follow the same process any country, including the US, has today.   If someone desires citizenship and the benefits it carries, then bully for them for applying for it.

I'm more interested in freedom to travel, live and work.  If someone has a job for me in another country, I should be free to take it.  Millions of Mexicans come to the US to work, legally and illegally, in an enormous boost to our economy in many states, doing jobs that Americans simply will not do (except on prison work gangs).

Right now a tourist visa for a Mexican to enter the US is $131.  That is a week of average wages in Mexico.  A tourist visa for an American to visit Mexico is not required.  A week of average US wages would be about $1000.

GuitarStv

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #345 on: January 11, 2019, 07:35:49 AM »
In the shut down horror side of things.  The micro brewing industry is big in my town.  Apparently new beer labels will not be approved until the shutdown is over.

Well now we’ve finally found something worse than people getting paid: no new hipster beer! The Horror, the Horror.

I laughed when I read this yesterday, but today when I was riding the bus to work, I overheard a hipster loudly complaining about the beer label situation, since it's evidently the part of the shutdown that most affects (and upsets) her.   The angst is real.

Hang on a minute.  Individual beer labels have to be approved by the Federal government?  Seriously?

Just for new labels, so the shutdown isn't affecting any older labels, but is, in essence, preventing new craft beers from being sold.  https://www.chicagotribune.com/dining/drink/beer/ct-food-beer-government-shutdown-20190107-story.html
Yes, but here in the UK we just have a set of rules on minimum information and nothing inappropriate, and everyone can just design their own labels in accordance with the rules with no approval needed.  Weirdly bureaucratic to have the feds have to approve each design.  Land of the free, huh?
Says the country which has strict rules on what kinds of glasses a bar can sell beer in...

Yes, but that's important.

Those laws were a reaction to free market abuses  . . .  bars were ripping people off by using slightly smaller 'pint' glasses that wouldn't hold a pint, or by purposely pouring too much head.

Not really a problem in the US though., as with the flavour of typical American beers, getting a little less not necessarily a negative.  :P

I'm a red panda

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #346 on: January 11, 2019, 07:40:17 AM »
In the shut down horror side of things.  The micro brewing industry is big in my town.  Apparently new beer labels will not be approved until the shutdown is over.

Well now we’ve finally found something worse than people getting paid: no new hipster beer! The Horror, the Horror.

I laughed when I read this yesterday, but today when I was riding the bus to work, I overheard a hipster loudly complaining about the beer label situation, since it's evidently the part of the shutdown that most affects (and upsets) her.   The angst is real.

Hang on a minute.  Individual beer labels have to be approved by the Federal government?  Seriously?

Just for new labels, so the shutdown isn't affecting any older labels, but is, in essence, preventing new craft beers from being sold.  https://www.chicagotribune.com/dining/drink/beer/ct-food-beer-government-shutdown-20190107-story.html
Yes, but here in the UK we just have a set of rules on minimum information and nothing inappropriate, and everyone can just design their own labels in accordance with the rules with no approval needed.  Weirdly bureaucratic to have the feds have to approve each design.  Land of the free, huh?
Says the country which has strict rules on what kinds of glasses a bar can sell beer in...

Yes, but that's important.

Those laws were a reaction to free market abuses  . . .  bars were ripping people off by using slightly smaller 'pint' glasses that wouldn't hold a pint, or by purposely pouring too much head.

Not really a problem in the US though., as with the flavour of typical American beers, getting a little less not necessarily a negative.  :P

Didn't Subway argue (and win?) that "foot-long" didn't imply a measurement; so they could sell 11-inch subs?

GuitarStv

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #347 on: January 11, 2019, 07:46:14 AM »
In the shut down horror side of things.  The micro brewing industry is big in my town.  Apparently new beer labels will not be approved until the shutdown is over.

Well now we’ve finally found something worse than people getting paid: no new hipster beer! The Horror, the Horror.

I laughed when I read this yesterday, but today when I was riding the bus to work, I overheard a hipster loudly complaining about the beer label situation, since it's evidently the part of the shutdown that most affects (and upsets) her.   The angst is real.

Hang on a minute.  Individual beer labels have to be approved by the Federal government?  Seriously?

Just for new labels, so the shutdown isn't affecting any older labels, but is, in essence, preventing new craft beers from being sold.  https://www.chicagotribune.com/dining/drink/beer/ct-food-beer-government-shutdown-20190107-story.html
Yes, but here in the UK we just have a set of rules on minimum information and nothing inappropriate, and everyone can just design their own labels in accordance with the rules with no approval needed.  Weirdly bureaucratic to have the feds have to approve each design.  Land of the free, huh?
Says the country which has strict rules on what kinds of glasses a bar can sell beer in...

Yes, but that's important.

Those laws were a reaction to free market abuses  . . .  bars were ripping people off by using slightly smaller 'pint' glasses that wouldn't hold a pint, or by purposely pouring too much head.

Not really a problem in the US though., as with the flavour of typical American beers, getting a little less not necessarily a negative.  :P

Didn't Subway argue (and win?) that "foot-long" didn't imply a measurement; so they could sell 11-inch subs?

Again . . . getting less food from Subway may well be a blessing in disguise.  :P

jambongris

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #348 on: January 11, 2019, 07:58:45 AM »
Says the country which has strict rules on what kinds of glasses a bar can sell beer in...

Yes, but that's important.

Those laws were a reaction to free market abuses  . . .  bars were ripping people off by using slightly smaller 'pint' glasses that wouldn't hold a pint, or by purposely pouring too much head.

Not really a problem in the US though., as with the flavour of typical American beers, getting a little less not necessarily a negative.  :P

Up until relatively recently it was illegal to sell a pint of beer at a bar in British Columbia due to a quirk of provincial and federal laws:

http://barleymowat.com/2011/01/27/bc-can-now-serve-a-pint/

Since a pint is a legal unit of measure bars are required to serve you 568 ml of beer when you order a pint (within allowable tolerances). Every year or so I see another investigative article about bars that are selling beer in various sizes of glassware and just calling it a "pint" out of habit. Some of them get around the issue by just calling the drink size a sleeve or something similar since that's not a legal unit of measure.

If they aren't giving you your full pint when their menu claims that they serve pints, you can file a complaint here:

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/mc-mc.nsf/eng/h_lm00007.html

x02947

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Re: Fed employees - shutdown stories
« Reply #349 on: January 11, 2019, 08:04:38 AM »
In the shut down horror side of things.  The micro brewing industry is big in my town.  Apparently new beer labels will not be approved until the shutdown is over.

Well now we’ve finally found something worse than people getting paid: no new hipster beer! The Horror, the Horror.

I laughed when I read this yesterday, but today when I was riding the bus to work, I overheard a hipster loudly complaining about the beer label situation, since it's evidently the part of the shutdown that most affects (and upsets) her.   The angst is real.

Hang on a minute.  Individual beer labels have to be approved by the Federal government?  Seriously?

Just for new labels, so the shutdown isn't affecting any older labels, but is, in essence, preventing new craft beers from being sold.  https://www.chicagotribune.com/dining/drink/beer/ct-food-beer-government-shutdown-20190107-story.html
Yes, but here in the UK we just have a set of rules on minimum information and nothing inappropriate, and everyone can just design their own labels in accordance with the rules with no approval needed.  Weirdly bureaucratic to have the feds have to approve each design.  Land of the free, huh?
Says the country which has strict rules on what kinds of glasses a bar can sell beer in...

Yes, but that's important.

Those laws were a reaction to free market abuses  . . .  bars were ripping people off by using slightly smaller 'pint' glasses that wouldn't hold a pint, or by purposely pouring too much head.

Not really a problem in the US though., as with the flavour of typical American beers, getting a little less not necessarily a negative.  :P

Didn't Subway argue (and win?) that "foot-long" didn't imply a measurement; so they could sell 11-inch subs?

Quote
With regards to the size of the bread and calling it a footlong, ‘SUBWAY FOOTLONG’ is a registered trademark as a descriptive name for the sub sold in Subway® Restaurants and not intended to be a measurement of length. The length of the bread baked in the restaurant cannot be assured each time as the proofing process may vary slightly each time in the restaurant.