Extremely aggravating Christmas purchase my sister made for my kids

[undercover]

I'm confused. If it's your house and your kids, why is the problem so hard to solve? I don't blame you for being mad, and the solution sounds a little painful (of course you don't want to disappoint or hurt your kids) but you know it's for the best. I wouldn't say I necessarily agree that it's for the best, but to each their own.


I will say for myself as a kid aged 6-8 I wanted a computer so bad I couldn't stand it. I wanted to know how it worked so bad and to see what it was all about. My parents got me one and I had unfettered access to it. Yes I spent long hours and nights on it but I learned a shit load and it's definitely what sparked my interest and knowledge in computers. I've made lots of money from it. Of course there was no YouTube or the amazing games there are now even though I did definitely play games. But my interest was in more of the workings than the actual experience itself.

Just saying that a computer or a tablet is a TOOL. It's really up to the person/kid how they use it. Some guidance is nice but I say let kids have all the unstructured time that they want as long as they're not posting memes all day. They could be using it to read or learn or create which are all totally great ways for kids to use the amazing tools we have today. I don't think parents really gain much by delaying device purchases. If they're the type to waste time at age 12 or whenever most parents plan on buying then they're probably the type to do so at age 8 as well or vice-versa.

[Michael in ABQ]

Our oldest is 10.5 and our kids do not have any screens of their own. Nor will we be buying them any device or accepting any as a gift. We're still feeling the repercussions of my wife's aunt coming into town for a few days and letting our three oldest boys play Minecraft on her phone for a few hours. They have talked about it almost every single day since to include wanting to buy Minecraft LEGOs and read Minecraft books. When grandma came to town and they asked to play Minecraft on her phone we told her very plainly that they were not going to spend her entire visit just begging for a chance to play a game on her phone (and fighting and whining and complaining about it).

They can get cell phones when they can pay for them, so probably around 16 or so.

I spent a good portion of my childhood and teenage years glued to a computer - mostly playing games but plenty of other stuff as well. I know how addictive it was and don't want my kids falling into that same trap.

Our kids spend hours playing with sticks and leaves and dirt in the backyard or with LEGOs in their bedroom. They get 1 or 2 shows on Netflix/Amazon per day and that's pretty much it when it comes to screens. When they stay up late its to read books by flashlight, not play with a phone or tablet.

We homeschooled up until a few weeks ago and our 4th grader said every kid in his class has some sort of videogame device (phone, tablet, console, etc.). I am perfectly fine with out kids being the odd one out.

[kenner]

Our oldest is 10.5 and our kids do not have any screens of their own. Nor will we be buying them any device or accepting any as a gift. We're still feeling the repercussions of my wife's aunt coming into town for a few days and letting our three oldest boys play Minecraft on her phone for a few hours. They have talked about it almost every single day since to include wanting to buy Minecraft LEGOs and read Minecraft books. When grandma came to town and they asked to play Minecraft on her phone we told her very plainly that they were not going to spend her entire visit just begging for a chance to play a game on her phone (and fighting and whining and complaining about it).

They can get cell phones when they can pay for them, so probably around 16 or so.

I spent a good portion of my childhood and teenage years glued to a computer - mostly playing games but plenty of other stuff as well. I know how addictive it was and don't want my kids falling into that same trap.

Our kids spend hours playing with sticks and leaves and dirt in the backyard or with LEGOs in their bedroom. They get 1 or 2 shows on Netflix/Amazon per day and that's pretty much it when it comes to screens. When they stay up late its to read books by flashlight, not play with a phone or tablet.

We homeschooled up until a few weeks ago and our 4th grader said every kid in his class has some sort of videogame device (phone, tablet, console, etc.). I am perfectly fine with out kids being the odd one out.

No kids and no interest in getting involved in parenting discussions, but complaining about Minecraft while bragging about Legos is more than a little out of touch.  Minecraft is (as an incredibly simplified description) online Legos, except the players can design literally whatever they want in pretty incredible detail.  There's a reason libraries, schools, summer camps, etc. use it as a teaching tool--our local library has a Minecraft group that meets a few times a month, and I know a couple kids have made new world mods in such great detail they've actually sold them.  And these are pretty typical kids who are definitely not glued to their computers/tablets.  If you're complaining about the screens/screentime in general, whatever, but 'ugh, Minecraft; yay, Legos' isn't a great argument.

[Just Joe]

Minecraft is the one computer game that I really feel we've gotten our money out of. We bought it way back when for child#1 and child#2 would patiently sit and watch the first child. Now child#2 has taken things way beyond what child#1 understands. Mods, group play, etc. Its the only game child#2 even plays. They bounce between the builder game where they are building stuff and then the group capture the flag type games.

[Proud Foot]

I didn't read all the responses so this may have already been covered.

I completely understand and agree with your frustration towards your sister. You set the rules for your family and since your extended family knows these rules she stepped way past those boundaries in getting your kids these gifts. It showed a total lack of respect for you and your spouse and how you two want to raise your children. If she was dead set on getting these for your kids she should have talked with you about it before hand.

With regards to the actual tablets and their use now. I would let you kids know they will not be able to use it until you have had a chance to get it all set up. We purchased the Kindle Fire tablets for both of our sons and they both love them. We love them also and chose them over an iPad because of all the parental controls available to be set up. We were able to disable the internet browser and the ability to make purchases. We were also able to set time limits for the different types of apps they are able to use. We do unlimited time for books and only a small period of time for the games, videos, and other apps. We also have it set up so they can only use it during a certain period of time during the day (mid morning to an hour before bedtime)

[ketchup]

Does anyone here run free OpenDNS or similar on your router in an effort to slow your children's exposure to some of the more risque parts of the internet?

This sounds like a great way for a kid to learn all about proxies, VPNs, and other buffoonery.  If your kid has a problem-solving bone in their body, and porn is the reward for success, they will learn all the IT tricks.  I wouldn't start a cat and mouse game if you plan to win.

[AMandM]

If you (not just OP, but all anti screen responses) want to raise computer illiterate kids and hurt their future job prospects, by all means be a Luddite.

Keeping kids away from personal screens before age 6 or 10 or 13, which is the issue at hand, hardly guarantees they'll be computer illiterate.

We have these miracle devices that put all of human knowledge in the palm of your hand, but we would rather continue to stare at the back of the cave wall.  Take advantage of kids curiosity and give them the tools to learn.  If you block avenues for curiosity, it just stifles the desire.

One of my principal objections to these devices is the chimaera that they contain all knowledge. When it comes to anything other than propositional knowledge, the screen *is* the cave wall. Photos of trees are not the same as the tactile difference between birch bark and oak bark, or the smell of pine vs. fir, or the feel of the tree swaying as you climb higher.  An animation can't teach you how to aim at a target, or how differently you do so for a baseball, basketball, or frisbee.

Take advantage of kids' curiosity and send them out to investigate the actual world. Don't give them a device that teaches them "here's the answer;" instead let them mess around, interacting with the world and seeing how it responds to their actions.

/soapbox

[J Boogie]

If you (not just OP, but all anti screen responses) want to raise computer illiterate kids and hurt their future job prospects, by all means be a Luddite.

Keeping kids away from personal screens before age 6 or 10 or 13, which is the issue at hand, hardly guarantees they'll be computer illiterate.

We have these miracle devices that put all of human knowledge in the palm of your hand, but we would rather continue to stare at the back of the cave wall.  Take advantage of kids curiosity and give them the tools to learn.  If you block avenues for curiosity, it just stifles the desire.

One of my principal objections to these devices is the chimaera that they contain all knowledge. When it comes to anything other than propositional knowledge, the screen *is* the cave wall. Photos of trees are not the same as the tactile difference between birch bark and oak bark, or the smell of pine vs. fir, or the feel of the tree swaying as you climb higher.  An animation can't teach you how to aim at a target, or how differently you do so for a baseball, basketball, or frisbee.

Take advantage of kids' curiosity and send them out to investigate the actual world. Don't give them a device that teaches them "here's the answer;" instead let them mess around, interacting with the world and seeing how it responds to their actions.

/soapbox

Poetic and true. Thanks for a thoughtful comment :)

[cats]

As a parent of a preschool age kid, I do think that's too young to have a personal screen device, sorry.  If one of my siblings or my parents did this without checking with me I'd probably ask them to return the devices and explain that we'd like to hold off for a few years.  I wouldn't hang onto the device with the expectation of using it later (and not using it at all now), as there may well be a newer/better model out in 2-3 years time.  Personally, I would insist on giving it back to make the point that it's not okay to give my kids gifts that are basically going to be a ton of work for the parents without clearing it first.  I think if OP had posted about his sister buying the kids a pair of big screen TVs for their bedrooms the reaction on here would be much harsher, but without effort on the part of the parents, it seems like this is the same kind of gift.  I don't think you're going to see too many people saying "oh, I would be so much better off as an adult if I had my own television as a kid!"

If asking your sister to return the item would cause friction you don't want to deal with, I'd say you need to commit to sitting down and spending a few hours figuring out the parental controls (which you are going to have to do at some point in the future anyway unless you want your kids to have zero screen access ever) and set it to something you're happy with (e.g., use for checking out library books only).  Then also control access to the screens (have them living on a high shelf or something) and your kids have to ask you for them, so you have an idea of how much they are being used and can control use. I would also limit where they can use the screens (no disappearing off into their bedroom for hours, for example).

Having seen some young kids who simply cannot be ripped away from their personal devices without causing a huge shitshow, I think it's perfectly reasonable to want to keep a screen-free home or at least limit access somewhat by not having personal devices and monitoring/limiting access to shared devices.  I want my kid to have a good idea of how to explore and entertain himself WITHOUT a screen before I introduce one into the mix.  For young kids especially, there are a lot of motor skills that you learn and practice through things like physically handling books (or Legos, blocks, puzzle pieces, etc) that you aren't going to pick up by tapping a screen.

[Just Joe]

Does anyone here run free OpenDNS or similar on your router in an effort to slow your children's exposure to some of the more risque parts of the internet?

This sounds like a great way for a kid to learn all about proxies, VPNs, and other buffoonery.  If your kid has a problem-solving bone in their body, and porn is the reward for success, they will learn all the IT tricks.  I wouldn't start a cat and mouse game if you plan to win.

True, or you could do I what I did and never explain what I did. Any warning screen they see they accept as the end of the internet. They don't question, I don't explain. If they ask, I've explained that they must have landed on an unsafe website. I've explained about the dangers of downloading software from just anywhere. Mostly kept the family computer safe by using Mint Linux extensively. 

[ABC123]

Hey, at least it's not 800 plastic toys, which is what my kids tend to get for Christmas.  So.  Much.  Plastic.
Thankfully, they tend to last about a week before they are either broken or the little pieces are lost.
I would take a Kindle over all that crap.

[YYK]

Generation tablet is incredibly computer illiterate already, at least compared to those 5-10 years older.  The peak of median intuitive computer competency is now roughly age 25-45, and aging.  Some current college grads now barely know what files are, or what saving something to the H drive means.  I'm only 27, and this is very bizarre to witness.

What's an H drive? I have /dev/sda and /dev/sdb :P

Kidding aside, I agree that tablet/smartphone use does not promote computer literacy in the way it's usually thought of. The lack of a recognizable filesystem (without installing software to access it) is a major difference in my opinion. These devices are designed to be as easy as possible to use, thus even toddlers being enamored with them. If you want your kid to be computer literate, plunk them down in front of a PC running Debian or Fedora.

[Arbitrage]

Ha, before reading the thread, I thought about how I got annoyed when my MIL purchased Kindle Fires for our kids, who were about the same age you describe at the time.  The annoyance actually wasn't with the kids having tablets, because our screen time rules are reasonably strict from a time perspective, but not in what screen they choose to use.  Rather, the annoyance was with the software membership - she's buying us something that will cost us money in the future, once the 1-year included subscription is up?

DW convinced me to spring for another year this past summer after I found a deal.  We are getting a lot of use out of them (definitely handy when traveling), so I grit my teeth and opened up my wallet.

[Sugaree]

My kid started using an ipad at school in kindergarten.  So you may not make it to 10-12 years old.

I agree with keeping them for car use.  We only use them when making a 4 hour trip and they are wonderful!

It starts in Pre-K here.  Though I did get him a Kindle when he was about 2.5.  I'm a tech nerd, so I get it.  I also know that he will be required to use a device like this for homework for the foreseeable future.  We do occasionally have problems with him getting too obsessed with it so when that happens he gets to take a break from it for a couple of days. 

[I'm a red panda]

If you (not just OP, but all anti screen responses) want to raise computer illiterate kids and hurt their future job prospects, by all means be a Luddite.

Keeping kids away from personal screens before age 6 or 10 or 13, which is the issue at hand, hardly guarantees they'll be computer illiterate.

We have these miracle devices that put all of human knowledge in the palm of your hand, but we would rather continue to stare at the back of the cave wall.  Take advantage of kids curiosity and give them the tools to learn.  If you block avenues for curiosity, it just stifles the desire.

One of my principal objections to these devices is the chimaera that they contain all knowledge. When it comes to anything other than propositional knowledge, the screen *is* the cave wall. Photos of trees are not the same as the tactile difference between birch bark and oak bark, or the smell of pine vs. fir, or the feel of the tree swaying as you climb higher.  An animation can't teach you how to aim at a target, or how differently you do so for a baseball, basketball, or frisbee.

Take advantage of kids' curiosity and send them out to investigate the actual world. Don't give them a device that teaches them "here's the answer;" instead let them mess around, interacting with the world and seeing how it responds to their actions.

/soapbox

Very well said.
There is a lot of research that early screen time is damaging to children.  It is reasonable to not provide it, if that is what a parent desires.

[Rural]

I would definitely sell the things on eBay or similar and then let the kids pick their replacement gifts using whatever money that makes (within whatever parameters you want to set as parent). I might not outright tell sister about it, but if she asks or learns about it from the kids, I'd remind her that she knew the rules I'd set for my children before she chose to buy them gifts outside those rules. Probably in so many words, but that's me.

[SKL-HOU]

Do you have a bad relationship with your sister? I cannot imagine being this upset over a gift with my sister. Do you think she did this to upset you? If yes, i can see your point. But if not, then you are overreacting over something she probably got with the best intentions. It is a nice gift.

[Blonde Lawyer]

Find out what the kids will be using in schools. My friend was anti-screen and then moved to Florida where her kindergartner has to take assessment test on an ipad.  All of the other kids already knew how to use the ipad.  He had to get some remedial tech instruction and felt "dumb" compared to the other kids.   You don't want that.

That said, I am a self proclaimed major tech addict that has trouble getting my work done because I'd rather read fun websites.  The issues is real.  I'm striving for a middle ground.

[MDfive21]

well the obvious solution is to buy your sister's kids two puppies and a 6 pack of espresso shots.  turnabout is fair play.

[Rural]

well the obvious solution is to buy your sister's kids two puppies and a 6 pack of espresso shots.  turnabout is fair play.

You forgot the drumset.

[okits]

Find out what the kids will be using in schools. My friend was anti-screen and then moved to Florida where her kindergartner has to take assessment test on an ipad.  All of the other kids already knew how to use the ipad.  He had to get some remedial tech instruction and felt "dumb" compared to the other kids.   You don't want that.

That said, I am a self proclaimed major tech addict that has trouble getting my work done because I'd rather read fun websites.  The issues is real.  I'm striving for a middle ground.

I’d be fine with that.  My kids are so young they still pee themselves daily.  At this age I want them learning social skills, manners, how to focus, how to self-regulate, basic literacy and numeracy.  I have no fear that they won’t quickly master the use of a highly addictive device soon after it falls into their hands. 

I’m also happy for them to realize there are things they don’t know.  I think it encourages curiosity and humility.

[katscratch]

I'm in the same camp as okits. And I kinda feel that a 5-yr old's self awareness of "dumb" partly comes from how the adults treat the situation. I know there are very young kids out there that are very sensitive and self-aware (I was one) but how the adults react tends to have a lot of influence over whether that kid develops resilience in hard situations vs. self-consciousness.