Author Topic: Exercise for fat people?  (Read 24243 times)

wenchsenior

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #100 on: November 11, 2018, 08:12:30 AM »
There has been a lot of good advice in this thread on exercise in general, but I feel like a lot of the posts are overlooking the OP's specific original criterion of exercise that is easy on the joints/low-pain to start. Adding a weighted backpack to walk etc sounds to me like the opposite of what the OP needs right now.  I also struggle with severe pain caused by exercise (though not b/c I'm overweight), which is why I suggested swimming or stationary bike or other non-load-bearing exercise to start to build conditioning.

OP,  please let us know if the discussion is getting too general, and not specific to what you asked.

koshtra

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #101 on: November 11, 2018, 09:04:48 AM »
There's a reasonable amount of good-quality research directly assessing the effectiveness of exercise for weight loss, and for the most part it's not very encouraging.

Which doesn't mean any one person won't get wonderful results from it, of course.

I don't see anyone on this thread denying the huge importance of exercise for health. We're talking tactics here, not strategy -- how do you get back to "active" from "sedentary," if you're overweight? Some people can go straight there, which is terrific, but others may have take a more roundabout route.

I tried walking as a primary strategy a couple of times -- careful, months-long progressive programs -- and fucked up my knees pretty bad both times, without seeing any results on the scale at all. Now that I've lost my weight, I'm able at least to walk a couple miles per day, which is great: but it's weight training that built my knees up to that point -- stressing the joints hard a couple times a week and giving them plenty of time to rebuild in between.

Of course those of us who have successfully lost weight and recovered an active life are all gung-ho on the way we happen to have pulled it off. But different people, different bodies, different circumstances. You have to find the way that will work for you.

PeteD01

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #102 on: November 11, 2018, 09:17:52 AM »
There has been a lot of good advice in this thread on exercise in general, but I feel like a lot of the posts are overlooking the OP's specific original criterion of exercise that is easy on the joints/low-pain to start. Adding a weighted backpack to walk etc sounds to me like the opposite of what the OP needs right now.  I also struggle with severe pain caused by exercise (though not b/c I'm overweight), which is why I suggested swimming or stationary bike or other non-load-bearing exercise to start to build conditioning.

OP,  please let us know if the discussion is getting too general, and not specific to what you asked.

I didnít suggest a weighted backpack to the OP but to people who do not understand that normal physical activity is already relatively intense activity for the obese - and that is well documented.
What I think the OP needs to understand is that exercise at an even higher level of intensity can be counterproductive. Not only because of the higher risk of injury in the ďfatĒ individual but because of the disproportionately high level of exertion which, in the deconditioned, may lead to even more inactivity due to the need for recovery or to giving up on physical activity. This has also been looked at and self-selected intensity of physical activity has been found to be superior to prescribed intensity above self-selected intensity. The implication is that walking or cycling or swimming at oneís own pace is preferable and is best done by incorporating such activities into daily life.

So there is pertinent information for the OP and it is:
Start with non-exercise physical activity such as walking, which is at sufficient intensity for the OP who describes herself as a ďfat personĒ, until basic conditioning has been achieved. Getting up to two hours worth of daily activity should not take longer than a couple of months and then itís time for more if so desired.

Of course, there is no money in this for the fitness industry and physicians are reluctant to recommend it because they think that the time commitment is too great.
Hence the recommendation to hit the gym or exercise at levels inappropriate for the deconditioned obese individual, which flies in the face of the serious research (which has been done - and a lot of it).

The OP has voiced concerns in that respect by worrying about not being able to keep up with others in the chosen activity. This is a real concern not to be dismissed and what I am saying here is alao supported by research.


PeteD01

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #103 on: November 11, 2018, 09:27:24 AM »
There's a reasonable amount of good-quality research directly assessing the effectiveness of exercise for weight loss, and for the most part it's not very encouraging.

Which doesn't mean any one person won't get wonderful results from it, of course.

I don't see anyone on this thread denying the huge importance of exercise for health. We're talking tactics here, not strategy -- how do you get back to "active" from "sedentary," if you're overweight? Some people can go straight there, which is terrific, but others may have take a more roundabout route.

I tried walking as a primary strategy a couple of times -- careful, months-long progressive programs -- and fucked up my knees pretty bad both times, without seeing any results on the scale at all. Now that I've lost my weight, I'm able at least to walk a couple miles per day, which is great: but it's weight training that built my knees up to that point -- stressing the joints hard a couple times a week and giving them plenty of time to rebuild in between.

Of course those of us who have successfully lost weight and recovered an active life are all gung-ho on the way we happen to have pulled it off. But different people, different bodies, different circumstances. You have to find the way that will work for you.

You are quite right in saying that physical activity as a method of weight loss doesnít show very encouraging results, at least at the volumes that have been looked at.
But weight loss is actually not the main problem. Keeping it off is where the failures occur, and that is where physical activity comes in. Without normalizing the metabolism the formerly obese person will remain an obese person in a leaner body just waiting to get heavier again.
Physical activity at the appropriate volume (quite a lot) and resistance training do normalize the metabolism even in the still overweight - this is without any doubt.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 09:40:47 AM by PeteD01 »

koshtra

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #104 on: November 11, 2018, 09:49:36 AM »
There's a reasonable amount of good-quality research directly assessing the effectiveness of exercise for weight loss, and for the most part it's not very encouraging.

Which doesn't mean any one person won't get wonderful results from it, of course.

I don't see anyone on this thread denying the huge importance of exercise for health. We're talking tactics here, not strategy -- how do you get back to "active" from "sedentary," if you're overweight? Some people can go straight there, which is terrific, but others may have take a more roundabout route.

I tried walking as a primary strategy a couple of times -- careful, months-long progressive programs -- and fucked up my knees pretty bad both times, without seeing any results on the scale at all. Now that I've lost my weight, I'm able at least to walk a couple miles per day, which is great: but it's weight training that built my knees up to that point -- stressing the joints hard a couple times a week and giving them plenty of time to rebuild in between.

Of course those of us who have successfully lost weight and recovered an active life are all gung-ho on the way we happen to have pulled it off. But different people, different bodies, different circumstances. You have to find the way that will work for you.

You are quite right in saying that physical activity as a method of weight loss doesnít show very encouraging results, at least at the volumes that have been looked at.
But weight loss is actually not the main problem. Keeping it off is where the failures occur, and that is where physical activity comes in. Without normalizing the metabolism the formerly obese person will remain an obese person in a leaner body just waiting to get heavier again.
Physical activity at the appropriate volume (quite a lot) and resistance training do normalize the metabolism even in the still overweight - this is without any doubt.

Ah. Weight loss actually *is* the main problem, though, if that's where your motivation lies. People quit if they feel like they're failing.

PeteD01

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #105 on: November 11, 2018, 10:08:57 AM »
There's a reasonable amount of good-quality research directly assessing the effectiveness of exercise for weight loss, and for the most part it's not very encouraging.

Which doesn't mean any one person won't get wonderful results from it, of course.

I don't see anyone on this thread denying the huge importance of exercise for health. We're talking tactics here, not strategy -- how do you get back to "active" from "sedentary," if you're overweight? Some people can go straight there, which is terrific, but others may have take a more roundabout route.

I tried walking as a primary strategy a couple of times -- careful, months-long progressive programs -- and fucked up my knees pretty bad both times, without seeing any results on the scale at all. Now that I've lost my weight, I'm able at least to walk a couple miles per day, which is great: but it's weight training that built my knees up to that point -- stressing the joints hard a couple times a week and giving them plenty of time to rebuild in between.

Of course those of us who have successfully lost weight and recovered an active life are all gung-ho on the way we happen to have pulled it off. But different people, different bodies, different circumstances. You have to find the way that will work for you.

You are quite right in saying that physical activity as a method of weight loss doesnít show very encouraging results, at least at the volumes that have been looked at.
But weight loss is actually not the main problem. Keeping it off is where the failures occur, and that is where physical activity comes in. Without normalizing the metabolism the formerly obese person will remain an obese person in a leaner body just waiting to get heavier again.
Physical activity at the appropriate volume (quite a lot) and resistance training do normalize the metabolism even in the still overweight - this is without any doubt.

Ah. Weight loss actually *is* the main problem, though, if that's where your motivation lies. People quit if they feel like they're failing.

You are right. As long as people focus on body weight, failure is going to be the most common outcome because it ignores the harsh reality of physiology, which doesnít care one bit how one feels about it.
Refocusing on maintaining functional status while aging, eating a decent diet because it is better for you and lifting weights because you want to be strong is the way to go. With that mindset translated into action, weight control is a much easier thing to achieve.
Probably not a thing achievable in the general population but this crowd is already interested in lifestyle change and is ready to question societyís norms. If I thought otherwise, I wouldnít waste a minute of my time to write this.

GuitarStv

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #106 on: November 11, 2018, 05:18:29 PM »
I agree with Pete.

Weight loss is kinda a shitty motivation.  There are many unhealthy ways to lose weight that will take pounds off, but make you feel awful.  Improving your fitness and diet will not only help you take pounds off, but you'll feel better every day.  That helps you to stick to the plan over the long term.  Changing your body is very doable, but it's a marathon . . . not a sprint.  To have it work long term you need to be able to permanently live a healthy life, and that's a lot easier to do if what you're working on makes you feel good.

use2betrix

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #107 on: November 11, 2018, 08:23:07 PM »
Lots of overthinking this here.

If one is way overweight, low impact exercise is ideal to be easy on the joints. Walking, elliptical, cycling, swimming, low speed stair climber. Lots of options.

Also, as mentioned, diet also needs to be in check and can make or break any weight loss program. Combining exercise and a changed, optimized diet, is the best way to go about it.

Beyond all this, the best diet and exercise program is the one that someone sticks to. Even if itís not ďthe bestĒ itís better than quitting and going back to the old ways.

koshtra

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #108 on: November 11, 2018, 08:27:17 PM »
LOL. I have to admit it's a pretty lame motivation -- being tired of being sneered at by strangers -- but it's the one that worked for me. Being healthier and more mobile is nice, too, of course.

NorthernBlitz

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #109 on: November 12, 2018, 08:15:58 AM »
Lots of overthinking this here.

If one is way overweight, low impact exercise is ideal to be easy on the joints. Walking, elliptical, cycling, swimming, low speed stair climber. Lots of options.

Also, as mentioned, diet also needs to be in check and can make or break any weight loss program. Combining exercise and a changed, optimized diet, is the best way to go about it.

Beyond all this, the best diet and exercise program is the one that someone sticks to. Even if itís not ďthe bestĒ itís better than quitting and going back to the old ways.

Sauna is no impact and has positive benefits for heart health.

ice_beard

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #110 on: November 12, 2018, 03:19:25 PM »
just relying on walking as your sole workout isn't going to cut it unless you're up into at least the obese category, or if you have hours to spare every day just to devote to walking around.

When discussing biking, I prefer to think of it in terms of time saved working out instead of time lost in transit.  Like if it takes me 45 minutes to bike somewhere that I could have driven to in 20 minutes, then I have gotten a 45 minute workout in while only losing 25 extra minutes of my day.  By that math, I've actually saved 20 minutes by biking instead of driving, since I want/need the exercise anyway.

I agree that walking just for walking's sake is an inefficient way to burn calories.  But your body is not designed to walk in circles for the fun of it, it is designed to walk all day as its primary means of going about its life.  If you just walk to the places you need to go anyway, you're not really losing anything.

^This stuff is gold. You're combining two needs here - the need to get from A to B AND the need for exercise, when you frame it like this in your mind. By combining the two, you're optimising your time and killing two birds with one stone.

This is why bike commuting is such a wonderful thing.  The sweet spot is to have a ride be long enough to count as exercise but not too long that it becomes a burden.  The best I had was in Germany where I took country roads 40 minutes each way.  I could stop at a number of small markets on the way home and it was totally enjoyable. 

A few weeks ago I was at a "benefits fair" (yay for open enrollment) and there was a commuting options table.  I talked to the lady at the table and recommended increasing the benefit for those who bike to work.  They currently give some terrible, 1 time "prize" which most people probably wouldn't collect.  I mentioned all the benefits of bike commuting, including some things the employer might actually be interested in, like reducing amount of parking needed for employees, etc.  She looked at me like I had creatures coming out my ears.  Most people think riding a bike to work is absolutely crazy. 

SansSkill

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #111 on: November 13, 2018, 01:46:10 AM »
I'm obese, 25kg ago I was morbid obese, here are a couple of observations I made in my quest:

1) Weight isn't the issue, never was never will be, it's simply a byproduct, either from medical issues or from an unhealthy lifestyle.
To my knowledge I fall in the latter category, as none of the medical issues I've had so far can explain my weight, so it's my lifestyle I'm fixing and my weight just gets fixed with it.
As a result after my weight is in order I accidentally a healthy lifestyle.

2) The best weight loss / lifestyle change exercise is simply the least terrible one you can stick with.
I've had so many suggestions about changes from so many people, do this exercise, eat this, stop doing that, cut that out of your diet etc.
No amount of research backing the method up in theory matters if you can't keep up with it in practice.

So here is what I'm doing that is working for me:
- I traded public transport for bike when bike would take <45 minutes and bike for walking when walking would take <10 minutes.
- I've started going to bed an hour early every day and waking up half an hour to an hour earlier as well, in this time I go to the gym and do 30 minutes of simple cross fit.
- I reduced (but not cut!) a lot of stuff, alcohol, energy drinks, soda, fast food. I still consume it but less in both frequency and quality.
- I count calories to make sure I don't eat too much, my daily intake limit is usually 2k, though I on occasion make an exception for a party or if I did significant more exercise that day.
- Also meal prepping, since I started aggressively meal prepping I've only eaten fast food as part of a social activity.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #112 on: November 13, 2018, 08:09:32 AM »
I just want to throw my two cents.  I don't think I've ever been terribly overweight, but I did tear my ACL and balloon up to 199 pounds (BMI = 31.2 at that time) last year. I'm now down to 180.2 pounds.

I really haven't changed terribly much (diet is alright I guess, still drink whenever I go out, etc.), except that I walk A LOT.  And I think the most important thing I've done regarding this is make it a habit.  For that, I can't recommend this book highly enough: The Power of Habit https://www.amazon.com/Power-Habit-What-Life-Business/dp/081298160X

Basically, habits boil down to three things: cue, routine, reward.  Something cues you that you should do something, you then do that on auto-pilot, and then you correlate that with a reward.

For me, this has meant that I correlate my walking with entertainment.  I'm an avid college football and soccer fan, so when it's nice out, I take long walks and listen to podcasts relating to these topics.  I have my two favorite podcasts alert me when a new episode is uploaded (cue), I walk (routine), and I get to listen to my podcast (reward).

Right now with the weather turning, I've changed to the same thing, but only for crappy TV shows that I love watching.  I don't know why, but I could watch Hell's Kitchen for three or four episodes straight.  And I did just that yesterday morning, all on the treadmill, and burned something like 550 calories while watching Gordon Ramsey yell at these poor folks.

The other big thing for walking -- I don't like pain and pushing myself and sweating and exhausting myself.  Sorry, I get nothing from it.  Barriers like this block you from forming habits. But walking -- there's absolutely no psychological or physical barrier there, and it's a relatively easy activity that allows me some alone time and let's me listen or watch things that I enjoy.

Best of luck to you.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 08:11:13 AM by ReadySetMillionaire »

Villanelle

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #113 on: November 13, 2018, 08:01:05 PM »
There has been a lot of good advice in this thread on exercise in general, but I feel like a lot of the posts are overlooking the OP's specific original criterion of exercise that is easy on the joints/low-pain to start. Adding a weighted backpack to walk etc sounds to me like the opposite of what the OP needs right now.  I also struggle with severe pain caused by exercise (though not b/c I'm overweight), which is why I suggested swimming or stationary bike or other non-load-bearing exercise to start to build conditioning.

OP,  please let us know if the discussion is getting too general, and not specific to what you asked.

Even if not all the advice is 100% applicable to me, it likely will be of use or interest to someone, so that's wonderful.

I'm on day 3 of what will be 100 days (or more) of at least 30 minutes of intentional activity! I've already mapped out some days that are going to be challenging (I've got 4 days of international or trans-oceanic travel in there, for example) and am making strategies for them.  (Once I get to the airport gate and have 2 hours to kill, I can walk!)  We will also be in 4 countries during that time and semi-nomadic for a couple months, but I can walk or do body weight exercises anywhere and in a small space, so this seems like a very manageable goal.  It if feels too easy, I'll bump it it up 45 minutes.   

I'm defining "intentional movement" as mostly, "I'll now it when I see it", but it's either anything done just for the sake of moving (going for a walk, doing lunges for a few minutes before jumping in the shower, etc.) or just sustained significant movement (yesterday I was at DisneySea and surely walked for well more than 30 minutes!)  I'm also trying to not fill that time with just walking, and hope to get a decent mix of walking and strength training.

Thirty minutes isn't much.  It's probably not enough.  But it's a manageable number, and there's nothing to stop me from doing an extra few laps once I'm out on the track. 

Also dipping my toe into meal prepping and trying to come up with a list of 5-6 quick, easy recipes that I don't hate making.  Over time, that will get boring, but should be good or a couple months, and during that time I can hopefully find a few more to add.  I wish I didn't hate cooking!

Also growing more committed to being a one car family when we move.  I'll likely still have the car most days as DH will have a free metro commute 3-4 days a week, but I'm sure this will cause me to walk and bike a bit more.  But that's not until March.

Weight loss will be great, but largely (ha!) because I think my body will feel better.  I'm not so fat that I think I stand out.  I'm probably an average American, perhaps even slightly smaller than average.  But sadly, the average American is still quite unhealthy.  I want to feel better and be healthier, and if I end up looking better, that's a nice side benefit, but not related to the goal. 


FiftyIsTheNewTwenty

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #114 on: November 13, 2018, 08:48:16 PM »
I know several people who have lost over 100 LB bicycling.  As long as you're comfortable on the bike -- which should be achievable -- it's easier on your body than anything else for the calories you can burn.  And you can train to a high level of fitness while still being very overweight, which makes it easier to stick with.

TheDuder

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #115 on: November 14, 2018, 09:44:04 AM »
Thirty minutes isn't much.  It's probably not enough.  But it's a manageable number, and there's nothing to stop me from doing an extra few laps once I'm out on the track. 

Also dipping my toe into meal prepping and trying to come up with a list of 5-6 quick, easy recipes that I don't hate making.  Over time, that will get boring, but should be good or a couple months, and during that time I can hopefully find a few more to add.  I wish I didn't hate cooking!


30 min is more than 0, so I'd say you are in fact off to a great start. Maybe even throw in some jogging for a few min at a time every now and then. Light interval training. Walk for 10, jog for 2, walk for 8, jog for 2, walk for the last 8. Play with your walk/jog min. Don't shoot for picking up where you left off right away because you aren't where you were back then or you wouldn't be here.

I think a lot of the problem is people thinking they can go from their current less than ideal lifestyle and do a complete 180 (Cut this out, cut that out, don't drink this, only drink that, etc) and think it'll stick right away and you wont have your downs. You will fall and get off track while making changes and learning what works for you, you have to know this going in and be willing to get back on track even when you have a few bad days in a row. No one is perfect, don't shoot for being perfect, shoot for better than you are.

I challenge you to do this, instead of getting burnt out on your 5-6 meals over a month or two and hoping you come across more asap, start with one meal a day for your healthy meal or even something like two days a week for healthy eating for the full day. The easiest one for me was Breakfast, so unless something crazy happens I know I will make a healthier choice for breakfast everyday. For some it might be lunch or dinner. For lunch and dinner I still try to make better choices, but I don't get bent out of shape if my friends want to go out and drink a beer and eat wings and fries or I need to grab some fast food for a quick lunch, because guess what, the next morning for breakfast I will be getting back on track and I know those choices continuously aren't my everyday lifestyle anymore and I don't want them to be. I also try to pick a few days a week I wont drink anything but water, coffee, and/or unsweet tea. I literally started with one day a week doing this. Some weeks I pick 5 days, some 2, some 3. I have hard weeks and I have easy weeks. Everyone does and everyone will.

You have to make choices that work for you and your lifestyle that will put you in a position to succeed and that is different for everyone. Do what works for you, even if that is starting with 30 min of intentional activity a day.

GuitarStv

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #116 on: November 14, 2018, 10:27:10 AM »
Yep.  30 minutes is plenty.  The important thing at the start is not the time that you spend, but that you make it a regular habit.  You want to get to the point where it will feel weird when you don't get 30 minutes of activity in a day.  As you get stronger and more capable, you can do things like increasing the intensity or duration of exercise.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #117 on: November 14, 2018, 10:41:49 AM »
Yep.  30 minutes is plenty.  The important thing at the start is not the time that you spend, but that you make it a regular habit.  You want to get to the point where it will feel weird when you don't get 30 minutes of activity in a day.  As you get stronger and more capable, you can do things like increasing the intensity or duration of exercise.

This is exactly right.  It's weird, but keep at it and exercise will become part of your habit and routine.  Not doing it will feel like not brushing your teeth in the morning.  And this is coming from a person who is the furthest thing from a workout freak you've ever met.

koshtra

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #118 on: November 14, 2018, 01:23:06 PM »
Plus a zillion on "habits." It's ALL about what you do when you're on autopilot, basically. You have to wire in the habits, make the healthy behaviors the easy and automatic defaults. "The Power of Habit" is a great book, and so is Baumeister's "Willpower" book. You can't be riding herd on yourself all day every day -- you'll wear yourself out doing that. Just focus on getting one habit in place at a time. When it's really running automatically, you can redeploy that willpower to getting the next one in place. I made a twenty minute walk to the train every morning part of my commute -- so I get 40 minutes of walking in, five days a week, without ever "trying to exercise" or "deciding to go for a walk" -- I'm just getting to work and coming home. I'm out the door and walking before it even occurs to me that there's any other way to get to work.

Prepping it beforehand is a good hack -- I pack my stuff for the walk to the train the night before and plunk it down in front of the front door. So it's already sitting there telling me what to do when I get up. I've already checked to see if rain is likely, and if so my umbrella's already sitting there on top. My mind is already made up because I've already got the task physically underway. In the morning I'm not *deciding* to walk to work. I'm just continuing something I've already started. Those little prior physical commitments are really important, for me.

mm1970

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #119 on: November 14, 2018, 04:32:26 PM »
Plus a zillion on "habits." It's ALL about what you do when you're on autopilot, basically. You have to wire in the habits, make the healthy behaviors the easy and automatic defaults. "The Power of Habit" is a great book, and so is Baumeister's "Willpower" book. You can't be riding herd on yourself all day every day -- you'll wear yourself out doing that. Just focus on getting one habit in place at a time. When it's really running automatically, you can redeploy that willpower to getting the next one in place. I made a twenty minute walk to the train every morning part of my commute -- so I get 40 minutes of walking in, five days a week, without ever "trying to exercise" or "deciding to go for a walk" -- I'm just getting to work and coming home. I'm out the door and walking before it even occurs to me that there's any other way to get to work.

Prepping it beforehand is a good hack -- I pack my stuff for the walk to the train the night before and plunk it down in front of the front door. So it's already sitting there telling me what to do when I get up. I've already checked to see if rain is likely, and if so my umbrella's already sitting there on top. My mind is already made up because I've already got the task physically underway. In the morning I'm not *deciding* to walk to work. I'm just continuing something I've already started. Those little prior physical commitments are really important, for me.

All very good points.  I'm currently reading The End of Overeating, by David A. Kessler MD.  The book is about a decade old.  I bought it and read it when it came out.  I saw it on my shelf and decided to read it again.  The section I'm in right now is about habit, willpower, and setting yourself up for success.

golden1

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #120 on: November 14, 2018, 06:40:43 PM »
My biggest motivation to exercise isn't weight, because I generally actually maintain or gain a few lbs when I exercise because my appetite increases dramatically.  It is physical and mental health.  I tend to fight off colds or other illnesses when I am exercising regularly, plus I feel less anxious.

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #121 on: November 15, 2018, 06:52:56 AM »
My biggest motivation to exercise isn't weight, because I generally actually maintain or gain a few lbs when I exercise because my appetite increases dramatically.  It is physical and mental health.  I tend to fight off colds or other illnesses when I am exercising regularly, plus I feel less anxious.

Speaking of health, everyone -- fat and thin alike -- can likely benefit from strength training.  There's been plenty of research on this over the years, and here's some recent research suggesting a 40-70% reduction in cardio-vascular disease events among those who strength train < 1 hour per week.  Interestingly, the effect is completely independent from sustained aerobic exercise (which has its own benefits).  Do both!
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 06:57:46 AM by Bird In Hand »

sol

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #122 on: November 15, 2018, 09:44:54 AM »
My biggest motivation to exercise isn't weight, because I generally actually maintain or gain a few lbs when I exercise

I think it really depends on where you're starting from.  If by "weight" people mean "appearance" then I think there's a strong case to be made for strength training over aerobic exercise for people who are not currently obese, because replacing fat with muscle can have a huge impact on your appearance even if your weight stays the same.  If you're currently obese then it would take years to add enough muscle to get your weight back up, so maybe focusing on lowering the scale number is still useful for a while.  Eventually, it should start to plateau as you keep getting stronger.



Bodybuilders are crazy heavy, because muscle is heavy.  Ronnie Coleman used to compete at 300 pounds and he was a shorter than the average American male.  I don't think measuring your weight is necessarily a terribly useful way to gauge your fitness level or your appearance, once you're below the "obese" BMI category.

But everyone's situation is different.  Some people can't add muscle, and some people definitely need to lose a hundred pounds of fat before they can even consider strength training as an option.  Sometimes there are emotional or social issues involved, either the type that can cause a person to eat too much or the type that can cause a person to work out too much (e.g. Ronnie Coleman).  This is why I think it's virtually impossible to give fitness advice on the internet without knowing an individual personally.  You could get the best workout advice in the world, but if you have a glandular problem or a drug habit then it's not going to help you.  It's like adding more hp to a car with bald tires; sometimes you're just solving the wrong problem.

koshtra

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #123 on: November 15, 2018, 11:59:15 AM »
Yeah, wot Sol said. The complexities are mind-boggling, really.

health.gov's new physical activity guidelines, interestingly, ditched the "in ten minute episodes" language about aerobic activity, though they kept their total time thresholds.

Exercise is one of the few things in life where the rewards are front-loaded. 150 minutes of moderate exercise per week gets you half of the longevity benefits that exercise ever gits you. It's a deal, folks. Low-hanging fruit. Grab that stuff.

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #124 on: November 15, 2018, 12:52:41 PM »
Stick to whole foods. Start simple and work your way up as you learn how to cook if you donít already. By simple I mean have hard-boiled eggs and some fruit in the mornings. A salad without processed ingredients (diy dressing with black pepper, garlic salt, vinegar and oil)....no cheese or deli meats....only chicken or steak. Make stews from whole foods. Snack on cruditťs (raw or slightly cooked veggies). If you stick to the rule of not eating anything processed, it takes away a lot of bad options.

Do something you enjoy. That doesnít feel like exercise. For me it is dancing and hiking. You wonít catch me on Gym equipment. I just canít do it. I donít want to spend my life dreading something I have to do every day.

I also drink coffee and tea all day. No more than 2 cups of black coffee per day, but mostly only one. I drink a lot of green tea and different herbal teas throughout the day. A lot of times when we feel hungry itís because we are thirsty. So for me keeping something in my stomach, even if itís just liquid, helps me feel satiated longer. It also helps with ahem...regularity.

I am also in the habit of eating large meals, or small meals very close together with large gaps of not eating in between. Itís just how Iíve always eaten. Iím no skinny mini, and not fat, though I am referred to by some as ďthicka than a snickaĒ lol! I enjoy eating and my favorite breakfast is a T-bone, egg whites, and a fresh sliced tomato with a bit of salt, a
couple handfuls of raw mixed greens and a whole grapefruit (good to eat citrus/fruit  with high cholesterol meals.) Obviously I donít have that every day but when I do it is filling and nurturing, and provided I sip on beverages throughout the day, I donít need to eat again until dinner time. Itís high in fat, but it also has a lot of protein, some fiber (veggies and grapefruit), and since many of the vitamins are fat-soluble (ADEK), Eating them with fat is a good thing. it comes from whole food sources. More and more research is coming out on the effects of preservatives on our weight and well-being.

If I eat dessert or something high in sugar, I eat something high in fiber along with it with minimal sugar. My favorite go to is celery sticks or fresh greens. I just eat it raw after eating my brownie or whatever. Sometimes Iíll have some cinnamon tea with that which also helps to counteract the effect of glucose in the body.

Itís just balance. If you eat ying  find the yang to go with it. Youíre eating cholesterol eat it with high fiber options. The pectin in the fiber binds to cholesterol molecules and helps to block some of the absorption. Learn food combinations because we are learning that itís not the food itself but the combination of what makes up the food that determines our reaction to it.

Recently I have been learning about Ayurveda (the science of life), and it is creating so much clarity for me in terms of what my body requires from food to be optimal.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 01:03:43 PM by Lmoot »

Bee21

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #125 on: November 15, 2018, 02:33:04 PM »
There are quite a few really good videos on you tube. Search low impact cardio and you will find some (check out joanna soh, i am usually doing hers). The sad truth is, overweight people need a modified program, so you would benefit from a couple of personal training sessions, where the pt sets you up with a program and teaches you the correct techniques. It is money well spent. I was doing it last year and by now exercise is a habit, I get cranky if I can't go to the gym(I am still fat, but stronger). It is also worth trying different pts, everybody has a different training philosophy, you learn different things. I personally can't do classes, so I had to go the machine route, but whatever works for you.

walking is great for general fitness but does not burn that much fat. Try nordic walking to move additional muscles if all you can do is walk. You will benefit more from 30 mins gym on the machines than just from a daily walk. Also, don't underestimate housework. It apparently burns 14 calories just to make a bed ☺ . My house is much cleaner since I perceive housework as cardio.



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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #126 on: November 15, 2018, 04:48:40 PM »


walking is great for general fitness but does not burn that much fat. Try nordic walking to move additional muscles if all you can do is walk.

That's incorrect. Fat burning needs a lot of oxygen. The moment you develop an oxygen debt, ie, you're puffing, you're burning blood sugars. This is why runners 'hit the wall'. It's when they exhaust the easily available blood sugars. This is why they carboload before a race. The fact is that walking and running move the same mass the same distance. The fact is that simple walking will build muscle mass if you're unfit. The fact is that walking uses the largest muscles in your body and will help with circulation, gut health, balance and a range of other things besides weight loss.

But the more important fact is that DIET is everything. You can't outrun a bad diet.

Lmoot

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #127 on: November 16, 2018, 07:34:41 AM »


walking is great for general fitness but does not burn that much fat. Try nordic walking to move additional muscles if all you can do is walk.

That's incorrect. Fat burning needs a lot of oxygen. The moment you develop an oxygen debt, ie, you're puffing, you're burning blood sugars. This is why runners 'hit the wall'. It's when they exhaust the easily available blood sugars. This is why they carboload before a race. The fact is that walking and running move the same mass the same distance. The fact is that simple walking will build muscle mass if you're unfit. The fact is that walking uses the largest muscles in your body and will help with circulation, gut health, balance and a range of other things besides weight loss.

But the more important fact is that DIET is everything. You can't outrun a bad diet.

Purely anecdotal, as a hiker (in FL...don't laugh), I find that I don't get a good cardio workout from walking...no matter how fast I walk. It's only when I walk with even just the slightest incline, that I start breathing harder. I've done several 27 mile single day "hike-a-thons", with 10 hours continuous and fast-paced walking, and other than muscle fatigue, I did not feel any cardio impact. Because of that, when I do hike somewhere with elevation, or go up stairs, it reminds me how out of shape I truly am. I hate running, so I've been just doing stairs when I can, or doing some trail jogging to work on my stamina.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #128 on: November 19, 2018, 06:28:32 AM »

Purely anecdotal, as a hiker (in FL...don't laugh), I find that I don't get a good cardio workout from walking...no matter how fast I walk. It's only when I walk with even just the slightest incline, that I start breathing harder. I've done several 27 mile single day "hike-a-thons", with 10 hours continuous and fast-paced walking, and other than muscle fatigue, I did not feel any cardio impact. Because of that, when I do hike somewhere with elevation, or go up stairs, it reminds me how out of shape I truly am. I hate running, so I've been just doing stairs when I can, or doing some trail jogging to work on my stamina.

I am there as well. I only start puffing for breath if I walk fast uphill. You still get some cardio impact, much more than when you are at rest, but it is less than a good workout. Maybe you could start hiking with a heavy backpack. Not especially good for knees of course, but it gives a good work out.
Trail jogging is a form of running.

Villanelle

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #129 on: November 20, 2018, 05:45:30 AM »


walking is great for general fitness but does not burn that much fat. Try nordic walking to move additional muscles if all you can do is walk.

That's incorrect. Fat burning needs a lot of oxygen. The moment you develop an oxygen debt, ie, you're puffing, you're burning blood sugars. This is why runners 'hit the wall'. It's when they exhaust the easily available blood sugars. This is why they carboload before a race. The fact is that walking and running move the same mass the same distance. The fact is that simple walking will build muscle mass if you're unfit. The fact is that walking uses the largest muscles in your body and will help with circulation, gut health, balance and a range of other things besides weight loss.

But the more important fact is that DIET is everything. You can't outrun a bad diet.

Purely anecdotal, as a hiker (in FL...don't laugh), I find that I don't get a good cardio workout from walking...no matter how fast I walk. It's only when I walk with even just the slightest incline, that I start breathing harder. I've done several 27 mile single day "hike-a-thons", with 10 hours continuous and fast-paced walking, and other than muscle fatigue, I did not feel any cardio impact. Because of that, when I do hike somewhere with elevation, or go up stairs, it reminds me how out of shape I truly am. I hate running, so I've been just doing stairs when I can, or doing some trail jogging to work on my stamina.

This is part of what I was getting at with the OP.  Running/jogging is too intense (and hard on the joints when I'm carrying some extra weight, especially given all the years of dance which were not especially kind to the bending parts) but walking doesn't feel like enough.  But perhaps that's where I need to start, regardless. 

Lmoot

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #130 on: November 20, 2018, 08:16:24 AM »


walking is great for general fitness but does not burn that much fat. Try nordic walking to move additional muscles if all you can do is walk.


That's incorrect. Fat burning needs a lot of oxygen. The moment you develop an oxygen debt, ie, you're puffing, you're burning blood sugars. This is why runners 'hit the wall'. It's when they exhaust the easily available blood sugars. This is why they carboload before a race. The fact is that walking and running move the same mass the same distance. The fact is that simple walking will build muscle mass if you're unfit. The fact is that walking uses the largest muscles in your body and will help with circulation, gut health, balance and a range of other things besides weight loss.

But the more important fact is that DIET is everything. You can't outrun a bad diet.

Purely anecdotal, as a hiker (in FL...don't laugh), I find that I don't get a good cardio workout from walking...no matter how fast I walk. It's only when I walk with even just the slightest incline, that I start breathing harder. I've done several 27 mile single day "hike-a-thons", with 10 hours continuous and fast-paced walking, and other than muscle fatigue, I did not feel any cardio impact. Because of that, when I do hike somewhere with elevation, or go up stairs, it reminds me how out of shape I truly am. I hate running, so I've been just doing stairs when I can, or doing some trail jogging to work on my stamina.

This is part of what I was getting at with the OP.  Running/jogging is too intense (and hard on the joints when I'm carrying some extra weight, especially given all the years of dance which were not especially kind to the bending parts) but walking doesn't feel like enough.  But perhaps that's where I need to start, regardless.

Walking  up stairs is great cardio.  When I used to work on the ninth floor of an office building I walked up and down all nine floors 2 to 4 times a day. After doing that for a couple of months, I decided I wanted to try the treadmill and was shocked I was able to jog a mile without being so out of breath. Cardio is just a label for a particular type of exercise, but any exercise that raises your heart rate is going to be beneficial in a similar way.

mm1970

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #131 on: November 20, 2018, 01:02:51 PM »


walking is great for general fitness but does not burn that much fat. Try nordic walking to move additional muscles if all you can do is walk.

That's incorrect. Fat burning needs a lot of oxygen. The moment you develop an oxygen debt, ie, you're puffing, you're burning blood sugars. This is why runners 'hit the wall'. It's when they exhaust the easily available blood sugars. This is why they carboload before a race. The fact is that walking and running move the same mass the same distance. The fact is that simple walking will build muscle mass if you're unfit. The fact is that walking uses the largest muscles in your body and will help with circulation, gut health, balance and a range of other things besides weight loss.

But the more important fact is that DIET is everything. You can't outrun a bad diet.

Purely anecdotal, as a hiker (in FL...don't laugh), I find that I don't get a good cardio workout from walking...no matter how fast I walk. It's only when I walk with even just the slightest incline, that I start breathing harder. I've done several 27 mile single day "hike-a-thons", with 10 hours continuous and fast-paced walking, and other than muscle fatigue, I did not feel any cardio impact. Because of that, when I do hike somewhere with elevation, or go up stairs, it reminds me how out of shape I truly am. I hate running, so I've been just doing stairs when I can, or doing some trail jogging to work on my stamina.

This is part of what I was getting at with the OP.  Running/jogging is too intense (and hard on the joints when I'm carrying some extra weight, especially given all the years of dance which were not especially kind to the bending parts) but walking doesn't feel like enough.  But perhaps that's where I need to start, regardless.
Hills.

I trained for and ran ("ran") an uphill half marathon the last two years.  I got faster in between but would still get frustrated at how much walking I have to do.  My heart rate was getting above 190.  Am I THAT out of shape?

Nope, when I run flat I can run much faster (average pace 10:00 mile vs 15:00 mile up hill), and the heart rate doesn't even come close to 190.

I actually had a training group where we'd go all up hill and the coach would drive us back down.

I also found it to be much better on my joints - knees/ hips.

Milizard

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #132 on: November 20, 2018, 01:47:23 PM »
Going downhill has certain health benefits, too.  Why not do both?

dcheesi

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #133 on: November 20, 2018, 02:26:14 PM »
What's been helpful for me is a lot of walking with occasional stairs (2-3 stories each at home and at work). And I also try to jog up the stairs at work, for a short burst of higher intensity.

Joseppi

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #134 on: November 22, 2018, 03:13:31 PM »
You can't out train a poor diet.
Walk wherever possible.
If you can't walk, then bike.
Take the stairs at all times.
If you only do one exercise, do kettlebell swings.
Get enough sleep.
Drink lots of water.
Repeat.

If you need motivation, I highly recommend listening to the Jocko podcast. Discipline = Freedom!

GOOD LUCK!!!!

pecunia

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #135 on: November 22, 2018, 03:47:18 PM »
Do some reading about ketosis and fasting.  Everyone has a different metabolism.  Fat is stored energy.  Proper fasting will allow the body to tap into this energy.  However, beware the yo yo effect.  When the body sees starvation, you can actually gain weight whilst you are eating less.

Truth can be stranger than fiction:

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blog/2018/02/story-angus-barbieri-went-382-days-without-eating/

Side Note:  Fasting is known to give a sense of mental acuity.

Another approach:

http://www.fatsickandnearlydead.com/

a-scho

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #136 on: November 22, 2018, 05:58:38 PM »
Chewing.........food on a ketogenic diet. After a couple of weeks, incorporate fasting(i like 16/8) into the ketogenic routine. Exercise is not mandatory, at least not in the beginning. But, basic walking is good. work up to more strenuous exercise when walking feels too "easy". 

lightbulb

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #137 on: November 23, 2018, 07:56:04 AM »
Late to the party, I hope the OP is still paying attention.

ON THE MERITS OF DIET

Diet dwarfs the exercise in addressing overweight/obesity, science and clinical practice say. Diet not as in ďdietingĒ but as in ďnormally eating what human organisms have been evolutionary designed to eatĒ.

ON THE MERITS OF EXERCISE

A few nuggets for pondering and using as you see fit:

Longest lived and healthiest people  do not exercise, however, they live in motion.

The chair is the killer. Insulin sensitivity is the key. Intervals improve your shape, but be careful with HIIT, first do a medical check and consultation if you have a pre-existing condition.

Really, Insulin sensitivity is the key.

The pioneering, science based  bodyweight HIIT programme has been discontinued due to injury risks, but it is still in the wild and has served well for decades even to admired celebrities. My personal experience is very positive, but use at your own risk.

I second suggestions on swimming and walking. To relieve load on joints , try Nordic walking. I have joint issues and have very good experience with Nordic walking.

Finally, I have very good experience with stationery bike and two simple programs:
ē   Cardio programme: 5 minutes low intensity, 15 minutes medium intensity (pulse at 65%-75% of your max heart rate, e.g. 220-age) 5 minutes low intensity. This maintains your current shape
ē   Interval programme: 5 minutes low intensity, 5 minutes medium intensity, then alternate a minute of high intensity (75-85% of max heart rate) and a minute of low intensity for 10 minutes, then 5 minutes of low intensity

The beauty is that you can adapt the timings and intenisty (low or high), but still get in better shape with interval training. 



 

Gribble752

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #138 on: May 31, 2019, 08:21:53 AM »
Just adding my comments. Yoga is something everyone should practice on a daily basis. Basic breathing exercises like Pranayama will help you achieve more concentration and keep many diseases away. When you combine Yoga with Ayurveda, life becomes tranquil.

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #139 on: May 31, 2019, 08:38:37 AM »
I've got nothing against yoga (stretching and meditation are generally pretty good for everyone), Ayurveda is a bit of a different matter.  I take offense at any form of psuedoscientific 'medicine' that people make bold claims about.

Ayurveda is not an effective treatment of cancer (https://web.archive.org/web/20140222053347/http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmentsandsideeffects/complementaryandalternativemedicine/mindbodyandspirit/ayurveda).  It is not an effective treatment of cardiovascular disease (https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=00045415-200505000-00011).  In fact, I am unaware of any study that shows Ayurveda is an effective treatment for any malady.  Traditional Ayurvedic remedies have been found to contain dangerous levels (above recommended daily intake) of toxic heavy metals including high quantities of lead, mercury and arsenic  (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755247/, http://www.bioline.org.br/request?ph08015).

If Ayurveda is something you find fun to do, cool.  Many people enjoy smoking and drinking too.  As long as you don't claim that it's healthy for you, and don't pretend that it's medicine there's no problem.

SecondEngineer

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #140 on: May 31, 2019, 11:23:49 AM »
Hey Villanelle, I hope you're still motivated and that you have progress you're proud of!

I know the thread should be about exercise but I can't help but chime in with nutrition advice.

If you have to put in effort to prepare food, it makes it a lot easier to stay within your diet. I don't know if you have issues with snacking, but whenever I visit my parents (who have hordes of snack foods and prepared foods) I snack a TON. At home, I try to limit my supplies to whole foods that need a bit of prep to eat. You mentioned that you hate cooking. I hate cooking for normal meals, too. (Cooking on the weekends or trying new fun recipes is different to me). Luckily that aversion to cooking can help as well. In my experience the biggest issue with weight for me is snacking, so being able to control when you eat is a huge step in the right direction.

Of course, if you do snack now, don't expect it to be easy to change habits. As an adherent to Mustachianism, I found it easiest to make the changes in the supermarket: just don't buy certain things. It was natural for me to forgo certain purchases after adopting frugal principles. And it doesn't have to be all at once. Cut out one thing until it's a habit, then another and another.

These changes will help you decide when you eat. To change how much you eat I would recommend intermittent fasting. Note this recommendation might be controversial. You should probably do your own research and not trust me.

I don't eat lunch. I eat a pretty small breakfast and a large dinner. I don't limit myself at all on dinner, but because I don't eat lunch, I still end up eating less in one big meal than I would in two meals. Sometimes I get hungry during the day, but I've learned to deal with it pretty well. My breakfast is usually low in carbohydrates and high in fats and proteins (eggs usually). This helps abate hunger for the day and gets me closer to ketogenesis by the end of the day. I workout at the end of my workday before dinner. When I started this routine I would feel lightheaded during my runs, but I don't anymore.

I say all this because I think it's one of the easiest ways to lower the amount you eat. With this lifestyle I have maintained a much better weight than when I lived differently. I've heard lots of (admittedly anecdotal) success stories about One Meal A Day (OMAD) plans. The way I see it, OMAD is a way to avoid a lot of the mundane, necessary cooking; is an easier, more sustainable way to diet (if you buy the right foods); let's you enjoy more filling meals with no guilt; and makes your workouts more effective.

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #141 on: May 31, 2019, 01:53:43 PM »
Interesting @SecondEngineer

Most people who IF do lunch and dinner not breakfast and dinner.  Why did you decide to go this route?

Cool Friend

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #142 on: May 31, 2019, 02:03:04 PM »
I didn't realize this was even a thing. I don't ever eat breakfast because I just don't feel hungry until around noontime.

dcheesi

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #143 on: May 31, 2019, 02:10:18 PM »
I didn't realize this was even a thing. I don't ever eat breakfast because I just don't feel hungry until around noontime.
I've long since learned that there's no point in me eating an early breakfast; I'll still be just as hungry come lunch time, if not more so! As long as I have my (black) coffee, I'm fine until mid-morning at least.

Lmoot

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #144 on: May 31, 2019, 07:35:39 PM »
I didn't realize this was even a thing. I don't ever eat breakfast because I just don't feel hungry until around noontime.
I've long since learned that there's no point in me eating an early breakfast; I'll still be just as hungry come lunch time, if not more so! As long as I have my (black) coffee, I'm fine until mid-morning at least.

 You just described me. If I feel a little hungry in the morning, I just have my morning coffee, black and Iím good for a couple more hours. The later in the day I start eating, the better. When I eat my lunch, Iím just as satiated whether I had breakfast or not.

I informally follow the 8/16 IF schedule. So typically I will only eat between 9-5, or any other 8 hour window, As long as itís not too close to when I wake up, or go to bed. And I say I skip  breakfast, but I still manage three small meals, or two larger meals and a snack, in that time frame.

It feels good to start the day with an empty stomach. I feel energized and not as sluggish, And more likely to fit in a morning workout before work, because I feel motivated. I also noticed my skin started looking great after I began going to bed on an empty stomach. If I fall asleep shortly after eating I will wake up with greasy skin and possibly some forming pimples. Now itís just my water before bed, I wake up with clear and moisture balanced skin. I drink 8 ounces of water before bed, and as soon as I wake up.

doggyfizzle

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #145 on: May 31, 2019, 10:03:23 PM »
The simplest are things like cutting out high calorie drinks including alcohol.

I was waiting for this comment this whole thread (although if I missed a reference to booze earlier forgive me).  Being conscientious of alcohol intake along with moderate (1 hour of cardio/resistance training each day) combined with moderate intake of refined sugars and carbs should be more than enough to stay trim.  Iím 35 and weigh only a couple pounds more than when I was a college athlete training 20 hours a week with only about 10 hours of exercise a week now, and most of that is probably due to a way healthier diet (lots of vegetables, minimal breakfast burritos) compared to when I was 18-22.

Malkynn

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #146 on: June 01, 2019, 04:45:46 AM »
OP, feel free to PM me if you want to discuss weight loss.
I went from BMI 31 to 21, with serious injuries that made exercise very difficult. I'm happy to share my experience and education on the matter.

I will share though that I would be cautious when considering fasting if you are overweight and don't eat a low fat/low alcohol diet, due to the gallstone risk.

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #147 on: June 01, 2019, 06:12:11 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQbuzsY_34Q

So hereís an old YouTube video from 2009 that Iíd saved because it makes the point brilliantly. Ignore the slight sales pitch at the start. The video highlights an incredibly important and easy to understand point that some people on this thread have already mentioned. Your weight loss is a dietary issue, not an exercise issue.

In this video youíll see a guy who starts running on the treadmill at roughly 55 seconds into the video. He runs at 10.5 miles per hour on a 0.5 incline. He keeps running until around 3 minutes and 20 seconds into the video. Thatís a total of 145 seconds of running. In that time he burns roughly 42 calories according to the treadmill. That may or may not be totally accurate, but itís accurate enough.

Thatís 0.29 calories per second which would be somewhere in the region of 1040 calories at hour. That might sounds great, but running at 10.5 miles per hour for an entire hour without stopping is something 99% of the population will not be able to do. Ever. They donít have the desire to put in the years of training to get there, and unless they are some kind of competitive athlete, they probably donít have the time. Iím guessing you donít have the time either.

On the other hand look at the guy eating the pizza and drinking the root beer. Heís no desperately trying to cram it down as fast as he can, but in the same 145 seconds, he eats 800 calories. Now it might actually only be 400 calories or it could be 1000. It doesnít matter. You get the point. Consuming calories is quick and effortless. Burning them off afterward is incredibly strenuous and time consuming. If youíre continually overeating, even by just a little, you will be wasting time and effort thinking that you can just quickly burn off the excess within 20 minutes of light, borderline pointless exercise.

People will often say that they have friends who are in great shape and they exercise all the time, or they will point to Olympic athletes etc. and say how they train for hours a day and they are in great shape, so I donít know what Iím talking about.

Imagine you could spend all day, every day with an Olympic athlete of your choice for an entire 7 day week. I donít care if itís a sprinter, a long distance runner, a rower, swimmer, diver, gymnast or weightlifter. What do you think the CONTENT of their diets would look like? Iím not talking about portion size. Some of them will eat relatively large portions in order to fuel lengthy workouts. Iím talking about CONTENT i.e. what they actually eat.

Do you think youíd see any of those athletes eating cookies, chips, fries, burgers, chocolate, pizza, cakes, ice cream or pastries? I doubt it. Would you see them drinking Coca-Cola, Wine, or Beer? I doubt it.

The analogy I like to use with food consumption is that itís like filling your car up with gas.

Even if the gas tank on your car was completely empty, how long would it take you to fill it to the brim at the gas station? Iíve never timed it, but when Iím at the gas station, I would estimate that it takes me no more than about 2 minutes to fill my car up.

Now, how long do you think it takes me to burn that gas off? Hours. Lots of hours.

Either many consecutive hours on a single day of driving across the country on highways, or many weeks if I just make the occasional short journey around my local area where I live. Either way, the cumulative time spent driving will be HOURS.

Gas Ė Only minutes needed to put it into your car, but hours needed to burn it off.

Food Ė only minutes or seconds needed to put it into your body, but hours needed to burn it off.

The point Iím attempting to make is that if burning calories is your main reason for wanting to start exercising, donít bother. Youíre wasting your time. Concentrate instead on your diet i.e. putting fewer calories into your body in the first place.

If however youíre exercising because you enjoy it and it makes you feel good and youíre doing it for other health benefits associate with it, then by all means continue.

Before anyone says anything Ė the only reason any diet works is because it reduces your calorie intake. I donít care if itís Atkins, SouthBeach or some other low carb, low sugar fad. Whatever the current trend is, somewhere, somehow the diet will have a mechanism built into it that reduces your calorie intake. It may not say that explicitly, but if doesnít reduce your calorie intake, then it canít possibly work.

All this say no to sugar stuff makes me laugh. Itís as if people have spent years pouring bags of sugar into their mouths and are now being told to stop. Nonsense. Theyíve been consuming sugar in the form of things like donuts, candy bars and crappy soft drinks.

So wait, youíve needed the anti-sugar/low carb diet movement to come along and tell you that eating too many donuts and candy bars will make you fat?

Thatís not a sugar or carb issue, thatís a calorie issue. You donít need to get overly complex and vilify certain ingredients or macro nutrients.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/rachelzarrell/a-science-teacher-lost-37-pounds-from-an-experiment-where-he

Also Ė Remember the craze for workouts like Insanity, Beachbody and P90X that were fronted by people like Shaun T? They had you jumping around like an idiot doing things like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLK28BHJDd8

Well, itís never talked about in the infomercials but these workouts also come with a diet plan. If you look at the diet plan it has people eating things like fruit, vegetables, lean protein and brown rice in small quantities and drinking nothing but water. If you donít follow these corresponding diet plans, you wonít achieve the fat loss they promote in the infomercials. But why donít they talk about the diet plans in the infomercials? Because they arenít good marketing. You canít sell basic common sense eating like your grandmother would have done. But what does sell, is rock hard abs, glistening with sweat in the sun after the most awesomely intense fat burning workout that youíll ever experience etc etc. What a load of shit. The diet plan alone would get you 90% of the results.

Modern scientific studies have now shown that the daily energy expenditure of African tribesmen to be the same as Western office workers. The difference is energy intake.

In 2019 you can walk into a convenience store, slap $2 on the counter (which is nothing, even if youíre on minimum wage) and you can purchase about 1000 calories of utter shit.

In 1919, youíd have been lucky to have enough calories to get through the day without feeling at least somewhat hungry most of the time and $2 would have a been a big deal to anyone. Back then, the majority of the foods and restaurants we have today didnít exist. Pizza, donuts, candy bars, ice cream, McDonalds, Subway, Dominos, KFC etc. Itís not inactivity that makes you fat, itís too many calories.

The best form of exercise is weight training/resistance training/strength training. Call it what you like. Why? Because inactivity, whilst it doesnít make you fat, does make you lose muscle, strength and bone density. Spend time reading about what sarcopenia is and what it does to you as you age. Realise that every human on the planet is affected by this. Then realise that cardio/aerobics donít address those issues and may actually exacerbate them.

Weight training works like saving for retirement. Start at age 60, you might be too late. Start at 20, 30 or 45 and never stop (30 minutes 2 or 3 times a week is all you need) and you could reach the age of 70 with more muscle, strength, vitality and physical capability than an untrained 50 year old.

Think of anyone you know who is obviously old and frail. Thatís sarcopenia and its cousins, osteopenia and osteoporosis in action right there. What they are suffering from isnít lack of running, lack of walking, lack of swimming, cycling or boxercise. They donít have the physical strength to even consider doing any of those things. What the lack is strength. Muscles are what allow us to move. They allow us to exert force to move things or resist forces placed upon us. Many elderly people donít have the physical strength to get out of a chair unaided, walk up a flight of stairs or do things like get dressed or stand up for more than a few minutes at a time.

Society sees this as ďWhat happens when you get old.Ē But itís not. Itís what happens when you do no deliberate resistance training for you entire life. Iíve been involved in online communities where people who do a couple of short workouts a week over the long term (think of the parallels with saving a high % of what you earn and investing it) end up looking and feeling half their age.

Iím not talking about CrossFit, Olympic weightlifting, powerlifting or bodybuilding. Iím just talking about sensible and safe, basic weight training. Yes, it involves many of the same exercises and equipment that the aforementioned may use, but the execution doesnít have to be anything like them. Also, you donít have to take large doses or steroids. The image of incredibly muscular, borderline manly physiques on female CrossFit competitors is the kind of thing that turns many uninformed women away from weight training and that is tragic. They believe that they will automatically begin to look like that if they even lift weights for a week. Ladies, let me tell you, you couldnít get like that if you tried. Not without steroids.

If youíre over 40, particularly if youíre a woman, you owe it to yourself to begin weight training because it will stop you from wasting away.

Best free diet advice online - http://www.nosdiet.com/ I bought the book to show my support because he's a family man, just a regular guy. PM me and I will send you the PDF copy if you'd like. It's so good. You know it all already, but it's a wonderful wakeup call. All the information is on that webpage if you want to read it.

I think Iím done.

Indexer

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #148 on: June 01, 2019, 06:51:30 AM »
A ton of great information already. My 2 cents on walking and diet.

Walking: I walk a lot, at least an hour with the dog per day, plus breaks at work to walk at the park, plus long hikes on the weekends. Rule of thumb, about 100 calories per mile of walking.


Diet VS exercise:  I'm in the camp that the diet is far more important for weight loss. Exercise is important, for building muscle and a healthier cardiovascular system, but it's much easier to control the diet for losing weight. Consider that your body burns a ton of calories just keeping you alive. Your heart is exercising 24/7. The average calories burned just keeping your body functioning is  around 1800 per day. That implies a 2,000 calorie diet assumes very little exercise. However, if you add 1 donut(200 calories) to your diet you need to walk 2 more miles is make up for it. IMO bringing the calorie intake down is significantly easier than trying to exercise enough to burn excessive calorie intake.

Also consider, lots of exercise also makes you hungrier. I eat the most on days that I hike, especially in terms of protein, which is normal since I want my muscles to recover, BUT that means many of the extra calories burned from that hike will be offset by eating more. This is another reason it's hard to rely on exercise alone.

Per the BMI chart I was overweight a few months back, so I decided to lose 20 lbs, which would put me back at my weight in my late 20s.  I went mostly vegetarian. Salads, soups, blended up smoothies with fresh vegetables and fruits, nuts as a snack, etc. I looked up vegetarian receipts. No processed carbs(chips, snack food, white bread, etc.), and only ate meat about 1-2 servings per week. I replaced milk with almond milk for the smoothies. I did leave in one processed carb, Mini Wheats, the cereal, just because 1 serving packs 90% of your daily iron. This diet lets you eat a lot of food in terms of volume, it's very filling, but the foods are less calorie dense so you end up eating less calories.

Another advantage of a plant based diet is that your energy levels are more consistent. You don't feel tired or lethargic after eating and you don't have the energy peaks and valleys associated with processed carbs. Consistent energy levels makes it easier to exercise.

Hope this helps, and whatever you do just make sure to stick to it! That's why permament diet changes and exercises that you enjoy tend to give the best long term results.

Parizade

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Re: Exercise for fat people?
« Reply #149 on: June 01, 2019, 07:05:45 AM »
I struggle with health issues that leave me in constant pain, the only workout I can count on that won't make my issues worse in rebounding (you know, those little trampolines). I can get 10000 steps while watching television and I don't even get D.O.M.S. (delayed onset muscle soreness).

You need to spend a little more money to get a good one, the cheaper ones are like walking in a ditch, they bend your knees inward. You want one that provides a flatter surface. I have a Jumpsport 250 and I wear supportive shoes to avoid overpronation.

Diet is also very important, I recommend itrackbites. You can get the basic tracking app for free, the premium is a one time fee of around $10 which provides you with tracking apps that mimic all the most popular (and expensive) diet plans and online support forums. Choose the diet plan that makes sense for you and go for it.