Author Topic: Ever feel guilty (imposter MMM syndrome)?  (Read 3060 times)

Last Night

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Ever feel guilty (imposter MMM syndrome)?
« on: April 03, 2017, 06:56:47 AM »
This has been eating away at me for the last little bit and I wanted to share and get your thoughts.

I’ve been frugal pretty much most of my life out of necessity, however over the last 10 years my career has taken off, couple that with some good real estate investments, a good capital market, etc I am in a pretty good financial position.

About 12 months ago my wife and I decided that it was time to do some spending that we had dreamed of doing for a while, mostly to our home.  We spent about 80k in cash on home renovations, which transformed the house completely and were done predominantly by me, had to hire out crews for some of the larger jobs, but even then I worked alongside them to ensure everything was done right.

I also went ahead and spent $50k on two cars for both of us.  Both were used, one 3 year old Toyota that will be in our family forever (we tend to keep cars for long stretches) and one fancy sports car for me that’s 5 years old (redeeming quality here is this car has really bottomed out in depreciation and is holding its value fairly well, at this point I can probably sell it for more than I paid for it).  I also do all maintenance and upkeep of our vehicles.

All of this was paid for by cash in the 12 months and that’s after making 30k+ annual retirement contributions to my retirement fund, (similar for my wife).  All is well right?  Well, yes, but…since the cars and house remodel neighbours have been commenting how fancy this looks, how nice that is, then they will ask about the cars, etc.  Mind you, we lived in the least attractive home in a great neighbourhood and drove 10+ year old cars for the 6 years living here.  In fact when we first moved here and I was doing a basement gut people walking their dogs would ask me “what are the owners doing to the house?” as they assumed I was just a worker (younger guy scrubbed out, beat up 15 year old Honda outside, etc)

So here we are, in 12 months the optics of our lives changed due to significant spending that we had agonized over for years, we are doing just fine, but I feel like I am an MMM imposter.  I didn’t need to do any of the house stuff nor did we need new cars.  We are extremely happy with our decisions and would do it all over again, but I feel I am carrying this tremendous amount of guilt for doing it.  My wife is more frugal than I am and she tells me to stop dwelling on it, but for whatever reason I can't let it go. 

Anyone feel the same way?

shawndoggy

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Re: Ever feel guilty (imposter MMM syndrome)?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2017, 07:08:58 AM »
The fact that you are worried about it means it's probably actually not a problem.  The remodel sounds like it's probably at least partially a sound investment (if you've improved your worst house on the nice block to be at least the average house on the nice block, you're going to get some of that remodel money back down the road).

Cars.... terrible "investments" but potentially fun toys from a quality of life perspective.

The big picture is have you kept up with retirement savings and stayed on track with your plan?  And you spent your "extra" money on something that gives you a little joy?  Seems like a life well lived to me.

Now I remember a couple of years ago reading in some comments to the blog where people were basically having a "frugal off."  One comment sticks with me from a guy who'd whittled his wardrobe down to two changes of clothes and he was bragging about how he'd shower in his clothes to avoid washing them separately.  <-- that guy probably thinks you are nuts, but he's probably also ready to retire on $125k.

patchyfacialhair

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Re: Ever feel guilty (imposter MMM syndrome)?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2017, 07:13:59 AM »
You don't need to hold yourself accountable to this forum. Does the forum provide a wealth of resources and encouragement: sure. But, only you can be in control of your happiness. If this outlay of cash is a one-time thing, and it significantly improves your quality of life, the rest doesn't matter. I'm sure you could have done some things cheaper but oh well, it's done.

If it becomes a continuous thing where you're questioning your purchases for the sake of the forum, you need to reevaluate your priorities and figure out what's going to work best for you going forward. At the end of the day, as long as you're continuing to pad your net worth month after month, you'll retire early. Maybe not super early, but much earlier than 95% of folks nonetheless.

Pigeon

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Re: Ever feel guilty (imposter MMM syndrome)?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2017, 07:19:24 AM »
It's a journey for all of us, and only you get to determine how important it is to FIRE at any particular time.  There are some for whom FIRE is all-consuming and they are willing to do anything to achieve it.  Good for them if it makes them happy.

I'm not horribly mustachian, more just plain always frugal.  We are, for example, saving a very large chunk of money for a particular purpose that will be spent in a few years' time (college education for the kids).  If I weren't a MMM imposter, I'd kick the kids out at 18 and let them sink or swim.  I'd rather be an imposter.  Everyone gets to decide for themselves.

If your family is on board, you are still saving well and don't regret your spending, personally, I think that's fine.

Tetsuya Hondo

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Re: Ever feel guilty (imposter MMM syndrome)?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2017, 07:57:10 AM »
Psst. Don't tell anyone, but a number of us on here are not hard-core (although I admire the hard-core and continue to learn from them). I consider myself to be moderately Mustachian. You have to do what works for you. I think the important thing is to always ask yourself if you're confusing the acquisition of stuff for happiness. IMHO there are some cases where some stuff (especially home improvements, done the right way) can improve quality of life.

Just Joe

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Re: Ever feel guilty (imposter MMM syndrome)?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2017, 08:01:58 AM »
Neighbors are just being nosey. ignore them. Tell them that it was bad luck that the cars "wore out" at the same time. As shawndoggy mentioned - tell them the changes to the house was all because of deferred maintenance, protecting your investment. You put it off as long as you could, now it needed to happen or risk the house developing expensive issues. And don't spend any more time justifying it. Its technically none of their business. They sound like circling raptors. ;) As if your new found spendypants might be good for them.

We're going through this (likely a much smaller way). DW and my careers finally got traction at the same time and we have no debt. We've fully funded our retirement plans and there is money left over. So, over the past year we've been on a replacement cycle - literally because everything we owned was old and worn (15+ yr old mattress that was lumpy). I'm sure the neighbors have seen the delivery trucks and maintenance trades parked in our driveway.

Its good that we, collectively as a neighborhood, are keeping up our properties. Good for all of us.

As for your spending - put yourself on a plan. Limit the spending to $XXX a month or just plan out the spending so that when you've achieved what is important to you - you can stop spending at an accelerated pace and settle back into your MMM lifestyle but with nicer things. For me, spending could get addictive. If I have to spend a lump to get something accomplished I try to mentally put an project end on the spending. Project ends here, move on.

neo von retorch

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Re: Ever feel guilty (imposter MMM syndrome)?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2017, 08:12:57 AM »
The goal was never to win the MMM race. It was to live your life according to your values, rather than what you assumed to be "the way to do things" based on society, media and peers.

swick

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Re: Ever feel guilty (imposter MMM syndrome)?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2017, 08:54:04 AM »
The goal was never to win the MMM race. It was to live your life according to your values, rather than what you assumed to be "the way to do things" based on society, media and peers.

This! There is lots of good advice here, the idea isn't to substitute one set of beliefs  (Standard American way of life) with another (MMM) without thinking critically about it and being honest with yourself and forging a path that works for you.  We all have different priorities and things that add value to our lives. There is no point in comparing yourself to others, when you are the one that has to look at yourself in the mirror every morning, and live with whatever decisions you make.

You said you would do it all again. You don't have regrets other than worrying about what a bunch of internet strangers might think? You did a bunch of the work yourself, you did your research when buying your vehicles? All Awesome.  The MMM way isn't about retiring as early as you possibly can on a very low level, like ERE, it is about living consciously and crafting the best life you can while being happy and contributing to the world - "FREEDOM through financial Badassity."

GU

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Re: Ever feel guilty (imposter MMM syndrome)?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2017, 08:54:17 AM »
If you totally hate your job and this significantly delayed your retirement, you should feel guilty (and stupid).  But if this is just a blip in your path to retirement and/or you don't really hate your job, then don't worry about it.  Just based on your OP, you're most likely in this latter category, but only you can determine that.

bobcobb7

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Re: Ever feel guilty (imposter MMM syndrome)?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2017, 08:54:51 AM »
Yeah, I would put myself squarely between Boglehead and Mustachian. Not planning to work until 65 and not trying to FiRE by 35. Won't need as much as the Bogleheads shoot for, but will need more than the hardcore Mustachians. Just have to find the balance that suits, your family, and overall happiness. And as far the neighbors, tell them you took out loans for the items and will be paying them off over time like most people do. I have found it is quite freeing to not care what other people think for the most part.