Estate Planning

[Inv4est4Oth4ers1956]

Hello Everyone,

I have a question that I have yet to see answered in the forum or blog posts.... But, I may have overlooked it. If so, please attach the link.

Anyways, what are others doing to ensure their loved ones are left with only joy and no pain?? How does one go about creating the documents needed to avoid their estate going to probate? What legal documents are you currently holding and how can I do this myself? A Last Will and Testament, Living Will, Trusts, Living Trusts, Power of Attorney forms, etc. all seem like a good idea, but I do not know where to start.

I tend to be one who believes in the DIY philosophy... Does Estate Planning fall under things common folk' can do (Investing, Real Estate, Repairs) or something you need professional assistance for (Dental Work, Tattoo Removal, Colonoscopies)?

Any tips or suggestions on how to best prepare for your death? (Morbid I know, but as Benjamin Franklin said, "If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.")

Thanks in advance!

[ixtap]

If you want to leave your loved ones with only joy and no pain you should:

One: convert them all to Buddhism
Two: be an arsehole

For estate planning, it depends somewhat on your situation, your state/ country of residence and your tolerance for paperwork.

For estate planning 4 others 1956, you will probably be best off marketing to a group that is not so focused on DIY in general.

[thisisjames]

We used a local law firm to setup the standard suite of documents.

Between our current assets and insurance policies, we'd have a couple million that would be used to take care of our daughter.  The piece of mind that comes with knowing that those bases are covered is worth the legal fees.

[WoodSpinner]

Hello Everyone,

I have a question that I have yet to see answered in the forum or blog posts.... But, I may have overlooked it. If so, please attach the link.

Anyways, what are others doing to ensure their loved ones are left with only joy and no pain?? How does one go about creating the documents needed to avoid their estate going to probate? What legal documents are you currently holding and how can I do this myself? A Last Will and Testament, Living Will, Trusts, Living Trusts, Power of Attorney forms, etc. all seem like a good idea, but I do not know where to start.

I tend to be one who believes in the DIY philosophy... Does Estate Planning fall under things common folk' can do (Investing, Real Estate, Repairs) or something you need professional assistance for (Dental Work, Tattoo Removal, Colonoscopies)?

Any tips or suggestions on how to best prepare for your death? (Morbid I know, but as Benjamin Franklin said, "If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.")

Thanks in advance!

Here is how I handled the issues....

1. I am a big fan of Nola press Willmaker—downloadable application and used it to create a variety of documents from Wills, Health Care directives, Funeral plans,  After-life directives etc.

2. Set up each of my IRA/401k accounts with bennificiaries and contingent bennificiaries.

3. Setup Specific Power of Attorney for each account since financial institutions will not honor general power of attorney documents.

4. Setup a simple revocable Living Trust, retitled my home to the trust and made the trust the bennificiariary for all after Tax accounts.

I did it all as a DIY,   Fortunately my credit union notarized documents for free!

**Note, I was able to find lots of standard language and forms to use for these documents. it may be more difficult for some states and a nightmare for Louisiana.

Lastly, I am not a lawyer, but a frugal DiYer.

WoodSpinner

[GettingClose]

It's a big subject - we can probably give better advice if we know:
- what decade of life you're in
- what types of assets you have, such as house, 401(k), collectibles, straight investment accounts, CDs, and so on, since they have to be handled differently
- what type of life insurance, if any, you have
- the relationship between yourself and those to whom you wish to leave assets: spouse, children, siblings, friends?
- the relationship between yourself and those to whom you don't wish to leave assets
- your marital status
- your (very approximate) net worth
- if you felt you could share it, your state (assuming you live in the US)

For example, in Oregon, even if you have a will and a living trust, if your liquid assets (like a checking account) are more than (something like) $70,000, the will goes through probate, which is a hassle.  It will save your heirs a lot of trouble if you re-title the checking account with the cash to be in the name of the trust, rather than yourself personally.

It can get very tricky and there are a lot of "gotchas".  So unless you have a very simple financial situation, the best investment is often a lawyer specializing in wills/trusts/POAs.  A good lawyer will think of all kinds of scenarios and account for them.  For example, if you think that a child might contest a provision of the trust, he/she can put in a clause that anyone contesting receives nothing.  You should be able to get this done for less than $1k.  Our situation is complex, and we got a trust set up and wills and POAs and reviewed healthcare POAs for ~$1200.  Well worth it.

[Dicey]

Hello Everyone,

I have a question that I have yet to see answered in the forum or blog posts.... But, I may have overlooked it. If so, please attach the link.

Anyways, what are others doing to ensure their loved ones are left with only joy and no pain?? How does one go about creating the documents needed to avoid their estate going to probate? What legal documents are you currently holding and how can I do this myself? A Last Will and Testament, Living Will, Trusts, Living Trusts, Power of Attorney forms, etc. all seem like a good idea, but I do not know where to start.

I tend to be one who believes in the DIY philosophy... Does Estate Planning fall under things common folk' can do (Investing, Real Estate, Repairs) or something you need professional assistance for (Dental Work, Tattoo Removal, Colonoscopies)?

Any tips or suggestions on how to best prepare for your death? (Morbid I know, but as Benjamin Franklin said, "If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.")

Thanks in advance!

Here is how I handled the issues....

1. I am a big fan of Nolo Press Willmaker—downloadable application and used it to create a variety of documents from Wills, Health Care directives, Funeral plans,  After-life directives etc.

2. Set up each of my IRA/401k accounts with bennificiaries and contingent bennificiaries.

3. Setup Specific Power of Attorney for each account since financial institutions will not honor general power of attorney documents.

4. Setup a simple revocable Living Trust, retitled my home to the trust and made the trust the bennificiariary for all after Tax accounts.

I did it all as a DIY,   Fortunately my credit union notarized documents for free!

**Note, I was able to find lots of standard language and forms to use for these documents. it may be more difficult for some states and a nightmare for Louisiana.

Lastly, I am not a lawyer, but a frugal DiYer.

WoodSpinner

I love Nolo Press, so I took the liberty of fixing that for you.

[Lance Burkhart]

We used a local law firm to setup the standard suite of documents.

Between our current assets and insurance policies, we'd have a couple million that would be used to take care of our daughter.  The piece of mind that comes with knowing that those bases are covered is worth the legal fees.

How much did it cost you? 

[Systems101]

What legal documents are you currently holding and how can I do this myself? A Last Will and Testament, Living Will, Trusts, Living Trusts, Power of Attorney forms, etc. all seem like a good idea, but I do not know where to start.

I engaged a professional, because the law is a place where I don't want to mess around and make a mistake.... but I did it through the Hyatt Legal Services (low cost benefit from work), so I didn't pay full retail.

I have the documents listed above except the trust parts.... and I think others have started you on the path to get them...

...but those are not everything you should do.  [visits my bookmark library]  Here is "step two", after you get the "legal paperwork" done:

As much as folks bash Dave Ramsey, there are places where he has some good info. This is one of them.  Read this (for the overall concept and then the detail list at the bottom, this is not to get you to pay for anything or go to the class... you can DIY this part):
https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/love-your-family-well-with-legacy

Add to that some additional items/details on what those mean:
https://lifehacker.com/5992722/one-day-youre-going-to-die-heres-how-to-prepare-for-it

...and what others will have to think about, so do what you can to make it easy to do these things as much as you can:
https://www.thebalance.com/what-do-you-need-to-do-when-someone-dies-3505207

Make everything on those lists easy to find AND let the folks that will have to find it know where it is ...

p.s. 2 of the 3 sites list passwords.  Not sure I agree with that.  YMMV, so think critically about the lists, too.

[MrThatsDifferent]

Do not, do not, do not do a will yourself. Most of the DIY can b defeated. You have a ton of money that you’ve invested in, a good lawyer will cost you $1000-2000 max. Get a lawyer and accountant to create the strongest protections you can for your legacy. Don’t be cheap and whatever you do, don’t die without a will, you’ll make your family’s life miserable on top of the grief.

[Freedomin5]

Do not, do not, do not do a will yourself. Most of the DIY can b defeated. You have a ton of money that you’ve invested in, a good lawyer will cost you $1000-2000 max. Get a lawyer and accountant to create the strongest protections you can for your legacy. Don’t be cheap and whatever you do, don’t die without a will, you’ll make your family’s life miserable on top of the grief.

+1.

 Anything that may be  potentially challenged in a court of law is not something you want DIY. We had it done by a family lawyer whose bread and butter was creating wills, power of attorneys, and health directives. In Canada, it cost us $300 and an afternoon of time. She asked us a whole bunch of questions that we would never have thought to ask. I actually tried to DIY a will and sent it to her to look over, and she quickly pointed out several errors that made the will invalid. Sad thing was that I had slaved over that thing for two weeks before sending it to her.

We have:
- Simple wills for myself and DH
- Health Directives
- Power of Attorneys in case one or both of us are incapacitated but not dead
- Small whole and universal life insurance policies that should be enough to cover funeral costs and pays off any existing debts

We still need to get critical illness insurance and possibly some term life for the next 20 years or so until DD is grown and independent.

[Leisured]

Definitely consult a lawyer specializing in estate planning  Perhaps a fee of $800, once in your life. The lawyer will point out traps for the unwary, esp if you have been divorced.

[MrThatsDifferent]

Definitely consult a lawyer specializing in estate planning  Perhaps a fee of $800, once in your life. The lawyer will point out traps for the unwary, esp if you have been divorced.

Actually, every new life event should mean a visit to keep your will current. You get married, change your will, have a kid, change your will, have another kid, change your will, buy a house, change your will, etc. Is it a pain, kinda. But you won’t believe what people fight over when people die. Get a will, keep it current.

[Imma]

We had a will and a living will done by a professional and it cost us about EUR 800 all in all for the two of us. In my country this has to go through a professional. I have a law degree, I knew roughly what I wanted, but the advice from the professional was still very valuable. He changed the wording of a certain sentence so I would qualify to inherit my s/o's pension (in a pension fund).  That's something I did not know in advance. We have taken out life insurance policies and with all of these provisions in place we are sure the other is taken care of financially when the other passes.

Money isn't the most important thing in life, but a smooth financial transition into widowhood will not make the grieving process any worse than it already is.

[chasesfish]

We finally took care of this (about four years delayed) with a local law firm for just over $1,000.   This included the Will, Power of Attorney, and Medical Directives.  It took a health scare to finally get my cheap self to do it.

Its an individual decision for everyone, we don't have kids but I know my side of the family would have started fighting hard with each other as soon as they figured out that between life insurance plus the net worth that 1/2 of the money was still over $1mil.  I had the attitude of "I'm dead, what do I care" for the longest time, but that's really just being a jerk to the good folks in my family that would have to fight with the not so pleasant folks.

[Imma]

Its an individual decision for everyone, we don't have kids but I know my side of the family would have started fighting hard with each other as soon as they figured out that between life insurance plus the net worth that 1/2 of the money was still over $1mil.  I had the attitude of "I'm dead, what do I care" for the longest time, but that's really just being a jerk to the good folks in my family that would have to fight with the not so pleasant folks.

This. We don't have kids either. I want to leave my s/o in good circumstances after I pass away, but other than that I don't really care that much. But because we don't have kids, many our relatives might have the idea that they are entitled to a part of our estate. We have seen that with other deaths in our families, certain family members challenged wills to try and increase their share in the inheritance. Some other relatives actually gave away their share in the inheritance because they didn't want to face their relatives in court.

Now we have a will, we have a clear list of people we want to inherit (the nice people) and we have also named a few people who will most definitely not inherit (the greedy ones). By not only listing the people who will inherit, but also those who explicitly won't inherit, we have made it impossible for them to succesfully challenge the will. One of them was so angry when they heard that, they told me they would disinherit me in return, as if that was some sort of punishment instead of my intention. The nice people will most likely inherit our estate without any hassle. Our financial situation is not complicated (we have index funds, a savings account with enough cash to pay for the funeral and we own a small non-cluttered property) and I'm sure they will have sorted it all out in a few months.

[partgypsy]

If you want to leave your loved ones with only joy and no pain you should:

One: convert them all to Buddhism
Two: be an arsehole

For estate planning, it depends somewhat on your situation, your state/ country of residence and your tolerance for paperwork.

For estate planning 4 others 1956, you will probably be best off marketing to a group that is not so focused on DIY in general.

lol

[thisisjames]

We used a local law firm to setup the standard suite of documents.

Between our current assets and insurance policies, we'd have a couple million that would be used to take care of our daughter.  The piece of mind that comes with knowing that those bases are covered is worth the legal fees.

How much did it cost you?

It was about $800. Great local firm with a good reputation.

[KatieSSS]

I engaged a professional, because the law is a place where I don't want to mess around and make a mistake.... but I did it through the Hyatt Legal Services (low cost benefit from work), so I didn't pay full retail.

Funny - I just signed up for Hyatt Legal at work for a year (open enrollment season) to knock out all of this estate planning. It will cost about $200 for one year, during which time I hope to get our legal house in order. Is Hyatt Legal pretty easy to use? I won't get a look at the actual services until January when I start paying :)

[Systems101]

Funny - I just signed up for Hyatt Legal at work for a year (open enrollment season) to knock out all of this estate planning. It will cost about $200 for one year, during which time I hope to get our legal house in order. Is Hyatt Legal pretty easy to use? I won't get a look at the actual services until January when I start paying :)

Yea, it was pretty easy.  The biggest challenge was the number of lawyers to choose from - less than I would have liked, but still plenty since I'm in a large area.

There is a web site where you can find local lawyers who perform the services.  I also looked generally (outside of that site) to get reviews as well.  That helped me get to a small set I talked with.  After an initial "interview" that was fairly comprehensive (lots of questions about where things would go under various circumstances) the paperwork was done, and we traded some revisions for some minor things, and in ... about a month (?) I came in for "signing day". 

Pretty painless, but if there isn't a sense of urgency (disease, et al), expect the full discovery of what lawyer to use and production of the documents to be a few months (so start early in the year)... [Lawyers are doing triage just like doctors do, and there are things that come up which end up impacting the day to day stuff]

If you haven't done this stuff before, you may have to split the "interview" into two pieces - there may be questions where you get stumped or want to understand more.  2015 wasn't my first time at the rodeo (not to mention having experiences with some friends where their parents' estates went wrong), so I have a pretty clear understanding of what I wanted and just needed the appropriate legal language for my state to make it happen.

[KatieSSS]

Thanks, Systems101! I'll be sure to start right away in January setting everything up. I'll probably do two meetings, the first so my husband and I can sit down with the lawyer and make sure we know what to produce and find out if we need to consult with family members on some things.