three hours isn't exactly a long time to wait for a response...
...
...
YOU DA MAN.
FU money enabled me to continue to live the life I chose after being hit by a bus.
Dr. Doom, that is epic. I have to agree that EVERY time I've quit a job its been because of the managers or personal reasons (ie moving, school, ect), NEVER because of the job itself.
One place where I worked a guy went to lunch and just never came back. It was actually a decent place to work, I only left to get my Masters Degree, but I truly regret it now - the Masters wasn't worth it and I loved that place.
Three hours into his shift, Frank turned around and walked out the front door of Wal-Mart and into a legend, vanishing in the darkness of the parking lot. It threw the rest of us into chaos because we had to pick up the slack, but none of us complained, for he was our hero. Because at some point, every single one of us had wanted to do that.
One of the things I'm now fond of saying is that people usually don't leave their jobs. They leave their managers.
My FU Money allows me to post my opinions to social networking sites that might get me fired.
Dependency is too weak a word, slavery too strong a word, but it's somewhere in the middle there.Servitude?
Yes, "servitude" with an "involuntary" in front of it. That seems about right.
[Tale of Awesomeness]
... all the stuff
I think FU money is something that employers should encourage. Who would you want working with you, people who actually want to be there or people who feel like they have no choice? Don't companies always say they want engagement? I don't think engagement happens when people feel trapped.
Love the WalMart guy story. A great example of how financial stability/security preserves our dignity. When you are enslaved to paycheck-to-paycheck living, you may need to set your dignity aside if you want to eat that month.
I used FU money in 2011 to take a sabbatical. I had just turned 51. I walked into my boss's office and said: I need to tell you something. I'm taking a year off". He said: "We don't allow that here". I said: "I'm not asking for you permission. I'm just doing it." He said: 'We can't guarantee that you can have your job back" I said: "I can't guarantee that I'll want my job back!". He asked: "How can you possibly afford to do this?" I said: "That's really a personal question, but I can tell you it involves savings and investments". Man, this dude was pissed. The president of the company called me to wish me the best and asked me to call him when I returned from my walkabout to discuss some opportunities. I ended up returning to a different department 15 months later. Higher pay. Promotion. I quit again 2 years later. They transferred me to another division. Higher pay. Another promotion.
Frugality pays.
I'm preparing for another world tour.
After crying at work for the 6th time in 6 months
Not a "fuck you" story, but I was able to stick up for myself and some of my coworkers in situation where most are too cautious to.
A co-worker [We'll call him SHITHEAD] that I (and many) have to work with a lot is not mentally stable. He lied very very frequently to try to make himself look good. He treated people like shit often. He'd blow up on people in big meetings with visitors from headquarters - he'd pick one person to try to focus on and blame and try to make them look bad. They'd defend themselves and their team in a reasonable way and he'd just keep going, red, furious, and yelling. He did this to me and my team a few times. I'd always stand up for us and he would blow up in ways unacceptable at our workplace.
Him and I both reported to our plant manager, who was fairly new. I didn't really like the new plant manager, but he wasn't so bad. Three on the management team - basically the three worst on the team - the HR manager, SHITHEAD, and one other guy kissed his ass a ton. They became golfing buddies. They'd golf together every weekend, talk about it at work, etc.. So I was in a situation where I knew that when I stuck up for myself and the others, I'd be in a room with SHITHEAD, his golfing buddy (our boss the plant manager), and his other golfing buddy (the HR manager, who was a miserable HR manager). I'd talked to my boss a number of times about it and I was very clear that it was absolutely not acceptable for this to continue, it but it wasn't getting any better. There were plenty of other people who saw what happened. There was one person, [JOHN] who SHITHEAD did much worse to than me (harrassment really), but JOHN was scared to stick up for himself because he had a lower hierarchal position and was worried he'd get blamed, had a family to support, etc. I'd beed documenting what SHITHEAD did, so I emailed it to the HR manager and my boss. My boss was new as a plant manager and he needed to look like he could handle issues with his staff. The next day he looked like shit and told me he didn't sleep the night before. I'm a good employee (which is known across the division), so firing or blaming me was not really an option. My boss knew I'd continue sticking up for myself and that I would escalate if the situation didn't improve quickly. After me, JOHN sent his documentation also. We had a formal meeting together which was pretty much your standard mediation and "be nice to eachother" stuff. A month later I got a promotion with a 15 or 20% raise and relocation (the relocation money ends up being a $10k bonus for me). I'm all but certain the timing was related to me sticking up for myself.
When I left, JOHN got promoted to my position. A few months later, SHITHEAD got a final written warning and has been behaving better now.
Having and using Fuck You money can end up making things work out better for (nearly) all involved.
I learned many years ago that you have two choices in this life...you can be management or you can be happy. Pick one.
I learned many years ago that you have two choices in this life...you can be management or you can be happy. Pick one.
A while back my two immediate supervisors called me into their office and said...
"If you don't accept this management position you're never getting promoted again."
My response...
"Cool."
You should have seen their faces! They couldn't believe that someone would pass up a pay raise just to avoid a bunch of added headaches and stress. (They ended up promoting a younger person, who of course complained about all of the extra work he had to put in.)
It never ceases to amaze me the amount of hoops people will jump through or the contortions they will go into in order to make a few extra grand a year.
Having enough money banked made that call a no-brainer!
Also I don't agree with all managerial work being unpleasant. I enjoy very much directing my team, and as far as I know I'm popular with my employees. I manage to make them do a lot of work without being mean or intruding into their private lives. :)
One of the things I'm now fond of saying is that people usually don't leave their jobs. They leave their managers.
One of the things I'm now fond of saying is that people usually don't leave their jobs. They leave their managers.
So true. My husband is thinking of taking the FU option soon, though I think he plans to make them fire him. He actually is the manager. He was brought in to fix all the problems caused by the previous manager. Turns out HR also screwed up some pay scales and are fighting him about giving the proper increases to affected employees. They are actually trying to change everyone's job description so they don't have to give the correct pay.
It comes out to less than $5000. It is chump change to the company, but would make a huge difference to the employees. Worse, the employees all know the pay is wrong.
This is just one in a string of similar problems recently. I swear, they found all the managers from "Office Space" and hired them.
It's amazing how easily a crappy manager (or even coworker) suddenly added into the mix can ruin what was otherwise a pretty blissful job for others.
Best.Thread.Topic.Ever.
One of the things I'm now fond of saying is that people usually don't leave their jobs. They leave their managers.
So true. My husband is thinking of taking the FU option soon, though I think he plans to make them fire him. He actually is the manager. He was brought in to fix all the problems caused by the previous manager. Turns out HR also screwed up some pay scales and are fighting him about giving the proper increases to affected employees. They are actually trying to change everyone's job description so they don't have to give the correct pay.
It comes out to less than $5000. It is chump change to the company, but would make a huge difference to the employees. Worse, the employees all know the pay is wrong.
This is just one in a string of similar problems recently. I swear, they found all the managers from "Office Space" and hired them.
If the employees *know* they're purposefully being screwed by an incompetent/uncaring management, it will cost the company a lot more than $5,000/employee in the long-run. Think pretend-working, theft, low-quality, etc. The company will be destroying themselves from the inside out.
The day I left two major clients also chose to come with me, and are still with me today. I immediately made more money working pt than my former ft salary because I had no staff or other overhead to pay for.
And that plan I presented, turned out there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. It continues to work for me today.
No epic FU money story here. Just had enough to quit work when I was 42 to support myself for what I thought would be a 5 year work break to do other stuff (play sports, travel...). I quit assumed I'd go back to work and would retire at a more traditional age. But knowing I had a government pension at 50, a paid off house I could sell and downsize, and no debt, kids or hubby either meant I could make the work break turn into early retirement. Didn't walk off mad or anything, was just ....done....and wanted to do other things before I was too old.
No epic FU money story here. Just had enough to quit work when I was 42 to support myself for what I thought would be a 5 year work break to do other stuff (play sports, travel...). I quit assumed I'd go back to work and would retire at a more traditional age. But knowing I had a government pension at 50, a paid off house I could sell and downsize, and no debt, kids or hubby either meant I could make the work break turn into early retirement. Didn't walk off mad or anything, was just ....done....and wanted to do other things before I was too old.
I think about a year after I left work I realized I could actually retire permanently without having to ever work again - even p/t - if I just sold my paid off house and downsized. I did that and became instantly FI. I was also frugal, debt free, child free, divorced, and had mostly free or very low cost activities and knew I would have a government pension of $1400/month starting at age 50 and had free or low cost medical thru the VA medical system (although I have always bought a low cost private policy). I also have no heirs so have no problem spending down any principal I have in savings or investments over the coming years to supplement my pension as needed. Currently, with a paid off house and low taxes, insurance and utilities, I can live on about half my pension ($700) per month for basic expenses. The extra goes to travel and fun stuff - or needed things like getting the car fixed. I've been FIREed over a decade now and love it. And no, I haven't had to go to work to plug any financial holes. Just reduce spending in other areas as needed or do without some things that don't have that much importance to me.No epic FU money story here. Just had enough to quit work when I was 42 to support myself for what I thought would be a 5 year work break to do other stuff (play sports, travel...). I quit assumed I'd go back to work and would retire at a more traditional age. But knowing I had a government pension at 50, a paid off house I could sell and downsize, and no debt, kids or hubby either meant I could make the work break turn into early retirement. Didn't walk off mad or anything, was just ....done....and wanted to do other things before I was too old.
Interesting...at what point did you decide the sabbatical turned into early retirement? Have you worked part time or anything in the meantime to plug any leaks in your plan? I wonder if I get downsized a year earlier than I expected, if I could parlay it into early or at least semi-retirement. It would be nice to hear your experience with this.
I am once-again dreading that my downsizing may happen this year instead of next as I had planned. I am still waiting to sell a house - or else I wouldn't be as worried. But my philosophy in life is that things happen when they should happen. So if I am downsized now I am sure I will figure out a way to get along. I am pretty sure I am FI for my basic needs, so it would just be a matter of figuring out the "luxuries" (how much health insurance I get, how much for travel).
I think about a year after I left work I realized I could actually retire permanently without having to ever work again - even p/t - if I just sold my paid off house and downsized. I did that and became instantly FI. I was also frugal, debt free, child free, divorced, and had mostly free or very low cost activities and knew I would have a government pension of $1400/month starting at age 50 and had free or low cost medical thru the VA medical system (although I have always bought a low cost private policy). I also have no heirs so have no problem spending down any principal I have in savings or investments over the coming years to supplement my pension as needed. Currently, with a paid off house and low taxes, insurance and utilities, I can live on about half my pension ($700) per month for basic expenses. The extra goes to travel and fun stuff - or needed things like getting the car fixed. I've been FIREed over a decade now and love it. And no, I haven't had to go to work to plug any financial holes. Just reduce spending in other areas as needed or do without some things that don't have that much importance to me.
Has anyone done anything truly epic, like punched someone out, or lit a building on fire? Released live goats into a cubicle village? Pooped on the boss's desk?
Has anyone done anything truly epic, like punched someone out, or lit a building on fire? Released live goats into a cubicle village? Pooped on the boss's desk?
Steven Slater, a flight attendant, announced over the plane's public address system that he had been abused by a passenger and that he quit his job. He then grabbed two beers and exited the plane by deploying the evacuation slide and sliding down it.
Has anyone done anything truly epic, like punched someone out, or lit a building on fire? Released live goats into a cubicle village? Pooped on the boss's desk?
Not epic but I want to share. My first engineering job was at an unethical company. As in fined $1M by the government for doing business with Iran unethical. We were expected to change test data for customers if the product tested out of spec. The stress was so bad I would wake up in the middle of the night with feelings of dread. I had to have brain surgery for hydrocephalus and I'm convinced it was the stress that caused it. I didn't have FU money at the time but I found another job and gave notice. The president of the company had me in his office and asked what it would take for me to stay. I told him there would have to be a 1 added to my current salary (I was making about $50k at the time). He laughed and I left.
The new job was 20% pay increase and amazing, I'm still working there 10 years later!
I do know of an EPIC quitting story but I got screwed in the process. I bought a motorcycle from a guy who said the title was in his truck and he would get it for me that night. I stupidly believed him and he never gave me the title. He wouldn't answer his phone when I called. He worked at Walmart and one time I spoofed the caller ID so it looked like Walmart was calling. He answered but gave more excuses. A few months later he went into Walmart and shot his boss in the chest with a 44 Mag (he lived) and holed up in the bathroom until cops came. I had to part that bike out on ebay.
It's interesting reading this stories. Does this happen because there is no social welfare? do not people receive some kind of support the first months they are jobless?
It's interesting reading this stories. Does this happen because there is no social welfare? do not people receive some kind of support the first months they are jobless?
In the US, if you voluntarily quit a job, it's hard to get unemployment benefits and depends on demonstrating you meet certain requirements. It's designed to encourage people not to willy nilly quit and sit around on their a$$ while the government (taxpayers) support them.
Not epic but I want to share. My first engineering job was at an unethical company. As in fined $1M by the government for doing business with Iran unethical. We were expected to change test data for customers if the product tested out of spec. The stress was so bad I would wake up in the middle of the night with feelings of dread. I had to have brain surgery for hydrocephalus and I'm convinced it was the stress that caused it. I didn't have FU money at the time but I found another job and gave notice. The president of the company had me in his office and asked what it would take for me to stay. I told him there would have to be a 1 added to my current salary (I was making about $50k at the time). He laughed and I left.
The new job was 20% pay increase and amazing, I'm still working there 10 years later!
I do know of an EPIC quitting story but I got screwed in the process. I bought a motorcycle from a guy who said the title was in his truck and he would get it for me that night. I stupidly believed him and he never gave me the title. He wouldn't answer his phone when I called. He worked at Walmart and one time I spoofed the caller ID so it looked like Walmart was calling. He answered but gave more excuses. A few months later he went into Walmart and shot his boss in the chest with a 44 Mag (he lived) and holed up in the bathroom until cops came. I had to part that bike out on ebay.
I'm not sure I'd consider shooting one's boss "epic" in the sense intended by the original question. More like tragic, no matter what the provocation was.
Pooping on the boss's desk = hilarious. Shooting the boss = horrific.
However, your story is pretty fantastic. Glad you got a much better job out of it all!
In the US, if you voluntarily quit a job, it's hard to get unemployment benefits and depends on demonstrating you meet certain requirements. It's designed to encourage people not to willy nilly quit and sit around on their a$$ while the government (taxpayers) support them.
After reading the blog for quite some time I keep seeing people talking about their FU staches (being different than their FIRE amount) as having the security to "stick it to the man" and walk off the job without stress if they want to.
This being said, I have never seen a story about using that FU money. Please, share your stories!!
In the US, if you voluntarily quit a job, it's hard to get unemployment benefits and depends on demonstrating you meet certain requirements. It's designed to encourage people not to willy nilly quit and sit around on their a$$ while the government (taxpayers) support them.
you know this is not how it works in other countries, right? it just seems to me that the fact that FU money is not spreadily available (under the form for instance of unemployment helps) give a chance to all the manager asshole to survive: if everybody working under a piece of shit could just leave and be supported a couple of months before finding a new job, then there would not be almost no asshole manager, since they would be detrimental to your company.
Although my personal point of view is that it should be responsibility of every worker to be in a position of strength, and not rely on the social system.
What kind of mumbo jumbo is that?
In what country do you get un/employment insurance benefits if you quit? Neither the US nor Canada offers this as far as I'm aware and there are sound policy reasons for not doing so. The exception is if you can demonstrate you were constructively dismissed.
Now, as far as "asshole managers", in my experience sometimes asshole managers are really fine managers with an asshole employee. It is hard to know without hearing the other side.
In the case where a manager is really unreasonably difficult/harassing they will contravene employment standards and/or human rights protections and you can quit and claim constructive dismissal. There are often complaints processes that can be accessed in these circumstances as well.
Has anyone done anything truly epic, like punched someone out, or lit a building on fire? Released live goats into a cubicle village? Pooped on the boss's desk?
btw, in most countries in europe you get a unemployment subsidy (if you have worked long enough to have right for) the moment you apply for it: it doesn't matter why you are jobless (even if you quit), just that you are jobless.
Which country in Europe is that I am curious?
It is the same here (NL+Belgium) as in the US (only a limited months subsidy in case of unvoluntary layoff). But you can, however, simply ask your employer to lay you off and if they agree, you can collect your build up months of subsidy (depending how long you have been in the work force 3 months up to 2 years).
Still, you are right that the wrong 'manager attitude' is being sustained by this system. Just wait for the years where employees are more in demand than employers.
Epic FU of my Co-worker. A silver haired lady of 60 with a very high work ethic and lots of experience and knowledge in the field decided she did not like the new management and new rules, that prevent personal contact or a personal touch. She was really a bit bullied by management at a certain point.
One 'idle Tuesday', she painted a certain something on the wall of our newly furnished building, she really took her time, like one hour?
Which we co-workers silently supported.
When she was finished she said goodbye to us all, gave us an address of where she would serve us a pint that afternoon and waited for the management meeting to walk passed her "mural".
She smiled, waved and just left.
Badass!!
* Not very detailed because it was kind of an unique painting :)
What did she paint on the wall? "FU"?
Over a decade ago I worked for a national home builder named Len ..... (you fill in the rest). I had been on track to win "builder of the year" and a nice sized bonus on top of my $100k + earnings / bonuses for the year. The bonus would end up becoming my FU money just a few days later .....
Anyway, I now laugh because the very next day he found my keys, company cell and a zerox copy of my middle finger on my desk instructing him on what body part to place it all in. I also sent corporate a polite email (wasn't their fault he had little man syndrome) saying that my manager would have some explaining to do to them.
my 5'-3" ball sack of a manager
... my troll of a manager ...
(wasn't their fault he had little man syndrome)
my 5'-3" ball sack of a manager
... my troll of a manager ...
(wasn't their fault he had little man syndrome)
LOL, short people are such trolls amirite? Every time I see a shorty, I just like to give them a little kick to remind them how terrible they are.
my 5'-3" ball sack of a manager
... my troll of a manager ...
(wasn't their fault he had little man syndrome)
LOL, short people are such trolls amirite? Every time I see a shorty, I just like to give them a little kick to remind them how terrible they are.
Thank you for sticking up for us, Dragoncar! As a short person who has spawned two short boys, that struck me as well. Why can't short men be plain ole garden variety assholes like average/tall men? Why do they have to have "little man syndrome"?
I thought it was calling someone and asshole...my 5'-3" ball sack of a manager
... my troll of a manager ...
(wasn't their fault he had little man syndrome)
LOL, short people are such trolls amirite? Every time I see a shorty, I just like to give them a little kick to remind them how terrible they are.
Thank you for sticking up for us, Dragoncar! As a short person who has spawned two short boys, that struck me as well. Why can't short men be plain ole garden variety assholes like average/tall men? Why do they have to have "little man syndrome"?
"Just cause you have one doesn't mean you have to be one!" But then again I guess you can't use that to call a girl a dick...
Thank you for sticking up for us, Dragoncar! As a short person who has spawned two short boys, that struck me as well. Why can't short men be plain ole garden variety assholes like average/tall men? Why do they have to have "little man syndrome"?Q: Why did Southern Stashian's manager get rich when Lehman Brothers collapsed?
"Just cause you have one doesn't mean you have to be one!" But then again I guess you can't use that to call a girl a dick...
I still see him a few times a year and show him my personal, "original copy" of the zeroxed paper that I left for him when I quit years ago.
I thought it was calling someone and asshole...my 5'-3" ball sack of a manager
... my troll of a manager ...
(wasn't their fault he had little man syndrome)
LOL, short people are such trolls amirite? Every time I see a shorty, I just like to give them a little kick to remind them how terrible they are.
Thank you for sticking up for us, Dragoncar! As a short person who has spawned two short boys, that struck me as well. Why can't short men be plain ole garden variety assholes like average/tall men? Why do they have to have "little man syndrome"?
"Just cause you have one doesn't mean you have to be one!" But then again I guess you can't use that to call a girl a dick...
Hahaha! Looking back it does seem that I have an issue with the "smaller people" of society. Since I'm 5'-9" myself and my troll of a wife is 5'-3", you wouldn't think I would have that issue. I mean my oldest 12 year old dwarf of a son is my best buddy while my vertically challenged 9 year old daughter is so beautiful and pint sized 4 year old couldn't be any happier.
Thankfully I don't think that way! ....... :)
So I started cutting back my hours.. this job was intended to be a 8 or 9 hour a day deal as opposed to the 12+ I was working so I tested leaving earlier and earlier each day, hopefully to regain my sanity. I was surprisingly met with little resistance. Eventually, I was given raises and promotions even though I had effectively cut my daily hours from 12 to like 7-8 today.
So I started cutting back my hours.. this job was intended to be a 8 or 9 hour a day deal as opposed to the 12+ I was working so I tested leaving earlier and earlier each day, hopefully to regain my sanity. I was surprisingly met with little resistance. Eventually, I was given raises and promotions even though I had effectively cut my daily hours from 12 to like 7-8 today.
Your story (and especially this part) totally reminds me of BNL's latest post: "The Man" is You (http://www.bravenewlife.com/06/the-man-is-you/).
Weeks later, I interviewed for my current job with the federal government, and had an offer just a month later. ... No asshole bosses, no make-work B.S., plenty of autonomy, mostly interesting work, a sane work schedule, a shitload of money frankly (not like the law firm job but more than enough),
I used FU money in 2011 to take a sabbatical. I had just turned 51. I walked into my boss's office and said: I need to tell you something. I'm taking a year off". He said: "We don't allow that here". I said: "I'm not asking for you permission. I'm just doing it." He said: 'We can't guarantee that you can have your job back" I said: "I can't guarantee that I'll want my job back!". He asked: "How can you possibly afford to do this?" I said: "That's really a personal question, but I can tell you it involves savings and investments". Man, this dude was pissed. The president of the company called me to wish me the best and asked me to call him when I returned from my walkabout to discuss some opportunities. I ended up returning to a different department 15 months later. Higher pay. Promotion. I quit again 2 years later. They transferred me to another division. Higher pay. Another promotion.
Frugality pays.
I'm preparing for another world tour.
Weeks later, I interviewed for my current job with the federal government, and had an offer just a month later. ... No asshole bosses, no make-work B.S., plenty of autonomy, mostly interesting work, a sane work schedule, a shitload of money frankly (not like the law firm job but more than enough),
You did hit the jackpot-- I'd caution anyone reading this post not to consider any of the above typical in the federal government
Weeks later, I interviewed for my current job with the federal government, and had an offer just a month later. ... No asshole bosses, no make-work B.S., plenty of autonomy, mostly interesting work, a sane work schedule, a shitload of money frankly (not like the law firm job but more than enough),
You did hit the jackpot-- I'd caution anyone reading this post not to consider any of the above typical in the federal government
Not that epic, but does involve poop. There are two parts.
Part one: After graduating from undergrad, I took a "year off" before going to grad school. I worked for my cousin's plumbing business. He had someone quit unexpectedly and offered me good money to work for him for one month while he looked for a replacement. He was very nice and paid me well. However, I never worked with him on the job. I worked with a different plumber that treated me like sh*t. He really enjoyed calling me "college boy" and was looking for excuses for yelling at me. I finally lost it and put him in his place. I told him that I was there to help out my cousin and not listen to his bullsh*t. I told him that if he yelled at me again I was going to leave and he would be doing twice the amount of work until a replacement was found. My cousin also had a talk with him and he stopped.
Part two: My uncle was having a party and he hired me to drive drunk people home. The "plumber" knew my uncle and was at the party. I honestly didn't have any hard feelings and things were going well. However, after a few beers he started doing his thing again by calling me "college boy" and yelling at me to do things. I think he was trying to show off. I didn't say anything or do anything until I gave him a ride home. I was taking 4 guys to their houses including the plumber. He was bombed and kept up with his remarks so I dropped him off first. After dropping him off, I got into the van and the other guys were apologizing for his behavior. They suggested that I kick his ass because he was a small man. I would never fight someone for being rude, but I did feel the need to poop. Without saying anything I got out of the van and pooped on his front porch. I wiped my butt with mapquest directions to his house so he knew that it was me. When I got back into the fan the three guys were like, "That's messed up, dude." I said, "You know what, I had to put up with his sh*t for one month. Now he has to put up with mine for one day."
So I started cutting back my hours.. this job was intended to be a 8 or 9 hour a day deal as opposed to the 12+ I was working so I tested leaving earlier and earlier each day, hopefully to regain my sanity. I was surprisingly met with little resistance. Eventually, I was given raises and promotions even though I had effectively cut my daily hours from 12 to like 7-8 today.
Your story (and especially this part) totally reminds me of BNL's latest post: "The Man" is You (http://www.bravenewlife.com/06/the-man-is-you/).
Not that epic, but does involve poop. There are two parts.
Part one: After graduating from undergrad, I took a "year off" before going to grad school. I worked for my cousin's plumbing business. He had someone quit unexpectedly and offered me good money to work for him for one month while he looked for a replacement. He was very nice and paid me well. However, I never worked with him on the job. I worked with a different plumber that treated me like sh*t. He really enjoyed calling me "college boy" and was looking for excuses for yelling at me. I finally lost it and put him in his place. I told him that I was there to help out my cousin and not listen to his bullsh*t. I told him that if he yelled at me again I was going to leave and he would be doing twice the amount of work until a replacement was found. My cousin also had a talk with him and he stopped.
Part two: My uncle was having a party and he hired me to drive drunk people home. The "plumber" knew my uncle and was at the party. I honestly didn't have any hard feelings and things were going well. However, after a few beers he started doing his thing again by calling me "college boy" and yelling at me to do things. I think he was trying to show off. I didn't say anything or do anything until I gave him a ride home. I was taking 4 guys to their houses including the plumber. He was bombed and kept up with his remarks so I dropped him off first. After dropping him off, I got into the van and the other guys were apologizing for his behavior. They suggested that I kick his ass because he was a small man. I would never fight someone for being rude, but I did feel the need to poop. Without saying anything I got out of the van and pooped on his front porch. I wiped my butt with mapquest directions to his house so he knew that it was me. When I got back into the fan the three guys were like, "That's messed up, dude." I said, "You know what, I had to put up with his sh*t for one month. Now he has to put up with mine for one day."
Not that epic, but does involve poop. There are two parts.
Part one: After graduating from undergrad, I took a "year off" before going to grad school. I worked for my cousin's plumbing business. He had someone quit unexpectedly and offered me good money to work for him for one month while he looked for a replacement. He was very nice and paid me well. However, I never worked with him on the job. I worked with a different plumber that treated me like sh*t. He really enjoyed calling me "college boy" and was looking for excuses for yelling at me. I finally lost it and put him in his place. I told him that I was there to help out my cousin and not listen to his bullsh*t. I told him that if he yelled at me again I was going to leave and he would be doing twice the amount of work until a replacement was found. My cousin also had a talk with him and he stopped.
Part two: My uncle was having a party and he hired me to drive drunk people home. The "plumber" knew my uncle and was at the party. I honestly didn't have any hard feelings and things were going well. However, after a few beers he started doing his thing again by calling me "college boy" and yelling at me to do things. I think he was trying to show off. I didn't say anything or do anything until I gave him a ride home. I was taking 4 guys to their houses including the plumber. He was bombed and kept up with his remarks so I dropped him off first. After dropping him off, I got into the van and the other guys were apologizing for his behavior. They suggested that I kick his ass because he was a small man. I would never fight someone for being rude, but I did feel the need to poop. Without saying anything I got out of the van and pooped on his front porch. I wiped my butt with mapquest directions to his house so he knew that it was me. When I got back into the fan the three guys were like, "That's messed up, dude." I said, "You know what, I had to put up with his sh*t for one month. Now he has to put up with mine for one day."
A lot of the stories here are about people who didn't have anything to go to, or a backup plan, or any money saved... in essence, people who lost their jobs because they preferred the satisfaction of being in charge of the situation for five seconds.
Which is why I think *real* FU money is so powerful. You don't have to use it. You can afford to be nice to everyone, even assholes. You just don't do anything you don't want to, or that you think is wrong. Because you don't need that five-second satisfaction, because you're not stressed out or frustrated or overwhelmed or vulnerable to start with.
</captain obvious>
A lot of the stories here are about people who didn't have anything to go to, or a backup plan, or any money saved... in essence, people who lost their jobs because they preferred the satisfaction of being in charge of the situation for five seconds.
Which is why I think *real* FU money is so powerful. You don't have to use it. You can afford to be nice to everyone, even assholes. You just don't do anything you don't want to, or that you think is wrong. Because you don't need that five-second satisfaction, because you're not stressed out or frustrated or overwhelmed or vulnerable to start with.
</captain obvious>
Your story (and especially this part) totally reminds me of BNL's latest post: "The Man" is You (http://www.bravenewlife.com/06/the-man-is-you/).
Wow. Maybe this has been covered but when I was growing up FU money was something the housewife stashed in case she had to escape from an abusive or intolerable marriage. Showing my age I suppose. Very negative and not good eh?
Not that epic, but does involve poop.
Wow. Maybe this has been covered but when I was growing up FU money was something the housewife stashed in case she had to escape from an abusive or intolerable marriage. Showing my age I suppose. Very negative and not good eh?
I did tweak some things a bit but nothing too dramatic or life changing. Sort of a "Latte-Factor" kind of trade-off with most things. i.e. I didn't give up things, just found alternative (less expensive) ways to have the things I want. Like you, I also didn't have to move too far from my home in SoCal (Orange County) as I didn't want to move too far from my family and friends. So just moved about 100 miles away (and 7,000 ft up!) and bought a home for about 1/4th the price I sold my place for. And still was close enough to snow ski in the morning and surf at the beach (or play beach volleyball) in the afternoon! So I think there are ways to retire or temporarily quit your job (with enough FU money that is) and not have to make too drastic of a lifestyle change.I think about a year after I left work I realized I could actually retire permanently without having to ever work again - even p/t - if I just sold my paid off house and downsized. I did that and became instantly FI. I was also frugal, debt free, child free, divorced, and had mostly free or very low cost activities and knew I would have a government pension of $1400/month starting at age 50 and had free or low cost medical thru the VA medical system (although I have always bought a low cost private policy). I also have no heirs so have no problem spending down any principal I have in savings or investments over the coming years to supplement my pension as needed. Currently, with a paid off house and low taxes, insurance and utilities, I can live on about half my pension ($700) per month for basic expenses. The extra goes to travel and fun stuff - or needed things like getting the car fixed. I've been FIREed over a decade now and love it. And no, I haven't had to go to work to plug any financial holes. Just reduce spending in other areas as needed or do without some things that don't have that much importance to me.
Thanks, that was very helpful. I like how you played with your options and finances (selling a home) to get you where you needed to be. And I love your beach volleyball and travel stories. Those are two of some of the things I want to spend more time on. I am also child-free and debt-free and don't plan on leaving much around when I get to the inevitable.
I just "downsized" late last year to a "smaller" place that helped me get mortgage free. I'm still waiting for the old house to sell (hence the nerves). But the new place is still quite luxurious and bigger than I need. I love the area. But I do have that as my ace in the hole if I need it (can sell and downsize even more in the future).
I'm just getting used to my new expense structure with this move. I think I have shaved off $20k in yearly expenses with this move - no mortgage, no yard maintenance, no alarm, no home phone, much less insurance costs, finally cut the cable, etc. It is quite freeing to see the change! And I only moved a mile away!
I am actually understating my stash. I have more than enough to cover my basic expenses at a 4% SWR. But I'd still like to beef up the travel amount and make sure I still have enough to cover my charitable donations. I'm also a little skittish with the current market highs. I'm sure it's doable if I am forced into the situation. We shall see...
Gerard, I'm not sure it's so simple. Even with FU money, most people are inclined to be accommodating, non-confrontational people. There will always be someone who incites stress or frustration in the workplace. The 'power' of FU money doesn't come from the money itself - it comes from realising that in most circumstances, the 'worst that can happen' is not really that bad, and with that knowledge comes strength. Obviously having cash behind you eliminates many possibilities from 'the worst that can happen', but it's not the money that makes these stories so interesting - it's the object lesson in seeing a person discover their strength and resilience, and pushing back against the arseholes and bullpoop that make so many workplaces much more unpleasant than they need to be.
And still was close enough to snow ski in the morning and surf at the beach (or play beach volleyball) in the afternoon!
So just moved about 100 miles away (and 7,000 ft up!) and bought a home for about 1/4th the price I sold my place for.
And still was close enough to snow ski in the morning and surf at the beach (or play beach volleyball) in the afternoon!
I'm sorry I can't hear you with all that beach sand in my ears :-)!90 minutes outside LA:And still was close enough to snow ski in the morning and surf at the beach (or play beach volleyball) in the afternoon!
You suck.
No, really, you suck.
I think I would have liked to live in a lower cost area myself but living only 90 minutes away from family (also elderly parents) was important to me too. Plus I had several pets (dogs and cats) so knew I couldn't get a condo or apt or rent a room and had to get a house. It wasn't ideal but was very workable. Having pets was a big factor when I chose to quit working - even if I had the FU money to do it - as I knew that would greatly effect my housing options. Much easier to walk off the job when you know you only have yourself to look after and provide for. Something for those with pets contemplating leaving their jobs.So just moved about 100 miles away (and 7,000 ft up!) and bought a home for about 1/4th the price I sold my place for.
Sweet!!! I live in a high COL area, but also close to family and friends...and the beach. But Florida has other beach towns that are cheaper. I guess I can move to one of those in the future. My parents are getting old and frail so I can't move too far away yet.
I would also love to live in Colorado. I can't ever see myself buying two places though.
I agree that there's always a cheaper way to do the same thing and spend a lot less money. You just have to be creative and flexible.And still was close enough to snow ski in the morning and surf at the beach (or play beach volleyball) in the afternoon!
You are living my dream life!
And still was close enough to snow ski in the morning and surf at the beach (or play beach volleyball) in the afternoon!
You suck.
No, really, you suck.
It's not gloating, it's inspirering others to become lazy good for nothing mustachian fools too :-)! And when are you going to quit that job-thingie and join me in lazytown? Then we can both suck!And still was close enough to snow ski in the morning and surf at the beach (or play beach volleyball) in the afternoon!
You suck.
No, really, you suck.
aw there she is, sashaying around the web gloating again. :) She's the Gloat Queen on another simple living board. I can attest to it, I've been reading her posts for more than 10 years and she really DOES have the life. But she knows how to make the decisions to get there.
It's not gloating, it's inspirering others to become lazy good for nothing mustachian fools too :-)! And when are you going to quit that job-thingie and join me in lazytown? Then we can both suck!And still was close enough to snow ski in the morning and surf at the beach (or play beach volleyball) in the afternoon!
You suck.
No, really, you suck.
aw there she is, sashaying around the web gloating again. :) She's the Gloat Queen on another simple living board. I can attest to it, I've been reading her posts for more than 10 years and she really DOES have the life. But she knows how to make the decisions to get there.
I'm sorry I can't hear you with all that beach sand in my ears :-)!90 minutes outside LA:And still was close enough to snow ski in the morning and surf at the beach (or play beach volleyball) in the afternoon!
You suck.
No, really, you suck.
I'll be there to whup your hiney-end :-)! Of course I'm older and slower now since I've been FTRE'd sooooooooo long now. Hmmm...sounds like that could be a gloat :-)!It's not gloating, it's inspirering others to become lazy good for nothing mustachian fools too :-)! And when are you going to quit that job-thingie and join me in lazytown? Then we can both suck!And still was close enough to snow ski in the morning and surf at the beach (or play beach volleyball) in the afternoon!
You suck.
No, really, you suck.
aw there she is, sashaying around the web gloating again. :) She's the Gloat Queen on another simple living board. I can attest to it, I've been reading her posts for more than 10 years and she really DOES have the life. But she knows how to make the decisions to get there.
I don't think it is gloating. But it doesn't change the fact she still sucks.
You promise my fat and lazy ass a doubles tourney as soon as I FIRE and I'll be there.
Big Bear's not as cheap as it was but still much less when compared to The O.C. - especially the coastal area I was living in (and now live in again). The drive up and back can be hard, especially in winter, and you often need snow tires and 4 x 4 or chains. The roads sometimes get closed because of mudslides or avalanches (and can take week or even months to be re-opened) and there can be wildfires that cause problems. But still, lots of people choose to live there and actually commute to LA or the IE everyday (lots of crazy people IMHO) as there really aren't any good paying jobs up there. Weather-wise it is near perfect I think. Much cooler then most of SoCal in summer (and cold at night), close to year round sunshine, fairly minimal snow (maybe 80 inches a year - and only a 30 minute or less drive to get off the mountain and into warm dry weather), more rain in summer due to thunderstorms but brief refreshing rain, and a pretty place to live. Lots of recreation. The Village area can get crowded but it's an easy walk or bike ride everywhere in the Valley so can go carless - even have a bus that goes between all the mountain communities and down to San Bernardino. I liked living there but it is a small place, surrounded by National Forest, and not for those who want the city life. However, like many resort areas, it has everything a small city has, just on a smaller scale. 4 seasons too - all nice.I'm sorry I can't hear you with all that beach sand in my ears :-)!90 minutes outside LA:And still was close enough to snow ski in the morning and surf at the beach (or play beach volleyball) in the afternoon!
You suck.
No, really, you suck.
I love big bear, but property isn't exactly cheap there. Is it super seasonal there? And how bad is the snow? I've only been in the summer.
aw there she is, sashaying around the web gloating again. :) She's the Gloat Queen on another simple living board. I can attest to it, I've been reading her posts for more than 10 years and she really DOES have the life. But she knows how to make the decisions to get there.
aw there she is, sashaying around the web gloating again. :) She's the Gloat Queen on another simple living board. I can attest to it, I've been reading her posts for more than 10 years and she really DOES have the life. But she knows how to make the decisions to get there.
Spartana - the Goddess of FIRE.
I don't see it as gloating. I am quite inspired by her stories.
aw there she is, sashaying around the web gloating again. :) She's the Gloat Queen on another simple living board. I can attest to it, I've been reading her posts for more than 10 years and she really DOES have the life. But she knows how to make the decisions to get there.
Spartana - the Goddess of FIRE.
I don't see it as gloating. I am quite inspired by her stories.
Oh it's gloating all right, haha. This is an inside joke of long standing. And I'm in countdown mode, less than a year to go punching a time clock and then I can sit around and gloat about enjoying a carefree life.
well you know the longer you call me out on my gloating...er...inspiring ancedotes, the worse they will become :-)!aw there she is, sashaying around the web gloating again. :) She's the Gloat Queen on another simple living board. I can attest to it, I've been reading her posts for more than 10 years and she really DOES have the life. But she knows how to make the decisions to get there.
Spartana - the Goddess of FIRE.
I don't see it as gloating. I am quite inspired by her stories.
Oh it's gloating all right, haha. This is an inside joke of long standing. And I'm in countdown mode, less than a year to go punching a time clock and then I can sit around and gloat about enjoying a carefree life.
OK back to the topic! Has anyone ever just up and left a job with no FU money? Just enough to maybe get them thru for a little while in the hopes of getting something better?
My younger sister did this kind of thing off and on for years.
And surprisingly, doing all those years of giving the finger to various low paying jobs and spending all her money each time afterwards, she still has a huge stash, was able to buy a place with cash in a SoCal beach community, and could probably retire now if she chooses. No college education (or debts of any kind) either. So there's hope for people who want to say FU to the job occasionally yet still get ahead.
Yes you are right. She continued to live on very little money and stashed the rest. I know she is happy with her choices to travel and have adventures while young rather then work as she, like me, often see people who have been in school and working hard all their lives who sort of lose it around age 40. All of a sudden dump it all (job, money, often spouse and kids) and run off to the tropical isle (or buy that snazzy red sports car :-)!). The non-stop/no-breaks school and work thing may really be the culprit behind a lot of mid-life crisis'. Maybe taking a break in between for a couple of years or before serious career can be more stable in the long run then an office job and a pay check. For a little while at least :-)!OK back to the topic! Has anyone ever just up and left a job with no FU money? Just enough to maybe get them thru for a little while in the hopes of getting something better?
My younger sister did this kind of thing off and on for years.
And surprisingly, doing all those years of giving the finger to various low paying jobs and spending all her money each time afterwards, she still has a huge stash, was able to buy a place with cash in a SoCal beach community, and could probably retire now if she chooses. No college education (or debts of any kind) either. So there's hope for people who want to say FU to the job occasionally yet still get ahead.
'Stashing is probably a byproduct of the frugal habits she picked up when she was making small amounts of money. Once she made a normal wage, she kept the habits and ended rich anyway.
I have friends who are still at that stage (early 20s) and I hope they get sorted out the same way. I'm a wee bit jealous of their adventures (where are we this week? Patagonia), but there is something to be said about the stability of an office job with a regular paycheck.
Has anyone ever just up and left a job with no FU money? Just enough to maybe get them thru for a little while in the hopes of getting something better?
Gerard, I'm not sure it's so simple. Even with FU money, most people are inclined to be accommodating, non-confrontational people. There will always be someone who incites stress or frustration in the workplace. The 'power' of FU money doesn't come from the money itself - it comes from realising that in most circumstances, the 'worst that can happen' is not really that bad, and with that knowledge comes strength. Obviously having cash behind you eliminates many possibilities from 'the worst that can happen', but it's not the money that makes these stories so interesting - it's the object lesson in seeing a person discover their strength and resilience, and pushing back against the arseholes and bullpoop that make so many workplaces much more unpleasant than they need to be.
Spartana has a(nother) forum to gloat, errr, inspire! Whoopieeee! I've been reading her gloats with envy for many years!And now that Iris-Lily will be joining me on the darkside and into ER soon you're next!
Friends from the Simple Living forums (waving to all of you) are probably sick of my story but I'll share it anyway, as it might be helpful to others.Well I love hearing your story - and the "dream life" of opening a dive shop in Costa Rica with out having ever dived - cracked me up.
Sometimes I wish I was on my own so I could take the leap like Spartana (my frugal Wondertwin!) That being said, my fantasies about quitting and opening a dive shop in Costa Rica intensify every day. And I don't dive and I've never been to Costa Rica.
Friends from the Simple Living forums (waving to all of you) are probably sick of my story but I'll share it anyway, as it might be helpful to others.
I had a career meltdown a few years ago in which FU money saved my life, literally. Short story is I hit a very thick, impenetrable glass ceiling imposed by a boss with psychopathic traits. Longer story is that they hired someone in over my head to do a job that should have been mine, without ever telling me the job was available. New hire had NO relevant experience and was totally incapable of doing the job, and it was clear I would be doing it for him. Oh, and then they tried to give me a 20% paycut because I was no longer in a managerial role. Almost quit at that point, and again when psycho boss engineered a very negative performance review to cover his butt (I stupidly walked right into that one). But I had some projects that meant a lot to me that I wanted to wrap up, so I focused on those while I literally started counting the days until I would leave. I had a lovely excel spreadsheet that calculated what I was earning daily. I spaced out my time off so that I would have a few "money for nothing" days interspersed every few weeks to help keep me going. I applied for a fellowship that I was almost certain I would get as my transition strategy.
The day I had my fellowship interview and got confirmation that I would be getting it, I wrote and submitted my resignation. Originally my DH was going to quit, too (we worked for the same organization), but in the end he decided to stay -- that ended up being good for us financially, but did cause some tension in our marriage. The fellowship money was only about 1/2 my takehome pay, but our expenses were low and we were basically living off of one salary anyway, so the risks were minimal. We also had a very large cash stash to fall back on as we had been living way below our means for several years.
I wasn't really sure what I was going to do once the fellowship (which was for about 6 months) was over. Had originally thought I'd do some kind of consulting, but was worried about whether/how it would work. Serendipity played her hand and a great job came up right as my fellowship was winding down. It was a bit below my skill set, and I took a paycut, but it turned out to be just what I needed. I could do the job well pretty much in my sleep, and quickly became indispensable to the organization and the program. Decent raises followed, and I'm now on the verge of a major promotion and (hopefully) a more significant raise. There have been some ups and downs in the last year, and to be honest I'm not sure I'm all that happy with how things have played out and not sure how long I'm going to stick with things. Definitely in "play it by ear" mode at the moment. But the last few years have been VERY good for us financially and if push came to shove we are in a position where we could sell our apartment and be financially set for life. DH doesn't want to do that, and isn't ready to stop working yet, so we're in a bit of a holding pattern. I look at our spreadsheets pretty obsessively and am running numbers on Fidelity's Retirement INcome Planner regularly just to confirm that we can cut the handcuffs any time.
Sometimes I wish I was on my own so I could take the leap like Spartana (my frugal Wondertwin!) did, but the reality is I wouldn't have gotten this far without a great and supportive spouse, who is someone I want to grow old with, so I need to be patient and wait until he is ready, too.
That being said, my fantasies about quitting and opening a dive shop in Costa Rica intensify every day. And I don't dive and I've never been to Costa Rica.
I guess I'll add my "epiphany" moment.
3 years ago, I was working in I.T. for a small-ish branch of a local manufacturer. I'd been working for about 15 years as a contract desktop support guy, and after all that, I was capped out around $28K a year, if that. Through those 15 years, my wife and I managed to go completely debt-free except our mortgage while raising 4 kids.
So at that time I was working as a contractor in Louisiana. My "manager" was a slacktard in North Carolina who oversaw a half dozen units, mostly small remote ones, like ours. I worked at that factory for 5 years, and he never once came to visit, but somehow our unit was always at the bottom of the performance scorecards. Didn't matter what I did, it was never enough. He would randomly IM me during the day and ask me why I hadn't gotten on certain tickets. Usually it was because our local factory guys couldn't drop what they were doing to wait an hour for us to fix something, so we had to wait till they were available. Over and over, our "manager" would berate our performance, demand action, throttle our internet access, change our process every other month, generally make things as difficult as possible.
A lot of other units had figured out how to "game" the system and were making ridiculous numbers doing nothing at all, but I refused to cheat the system. I documented everything and kept trying to make our customers happy. I spent those 5 years making really good relationships with the managers in the factory, and from being generally helpful and nice, I had a lot of pull with people. One manager pulled me aside and said "Jeff, I like you. If you ever want to leave the I.T. department and come work for me, I'd love to have you." She was cool, but I was stoic and loyal to my "manager."
Then I got seriously hurt, was off of work for 2 months. I had come to my senses... I realized I was never going to make more than $15/hr fixing computers. I was going home hating my job every day.
One day, I asked the HR person off-hand what a starting tractor assembler made, with no experience. They said "$16.50. Why?"
I went straight back to my desk, called my manager, and told him in no uncertain terms that I was quitting.
Him: "You're quitting?"
Me: "Yes. I can make more money assembling tractors in the factory, with no experience, than fixing printers and replacing laptop motherboards all day with 15 years' experience. Think about that for a minute."
Him: "You do know if you quit, you can't come back?"
Me: "Don't worry, that won't happen."
Him: "....."
I'm now working for that woman that asked me to join her department... only built tractors for about 6 months before I got promoted. And now I'm a full company employee, not a contractor. Making almost $50K, and I love my job. Now I'm able to stash 25% of my income towards FI.
If I wasn't debt-free, I never would have had the guts to quit my job. We had 6 months income in the bank.
About a year into the new job, both of my upper managers were replaced... so now my managers are corporate yes-men. One of them only got the position because his old job was eliminated, so they created a management place for him. Yay.
I told them in no uncertain terms that I love my job, I had enough money to not care about working overtime, I did *not* wish to get promoted or go on salary, and I was *not* okay with all the stupidity that went with being a corporate whore. Every week or so I get the "you should have a development plan" speech, and I just tell them I'm not interested in advancement, as I will be retired before either of them.
These are all very cool FU stories, love them!
Anyone keeping a "FU resignment" letter under a shortcut on their desktop or hard-copy around at work? Just in case you'll need it and have a FU stash?
These are all very cool FU stories, love them!
Anyone keeping a "FU resignment" letter under a shortcut on their desktop or hard-copy around at work? Just in case you'll need it and have a FU stash?
Nope, just a bottle of jack and a parachute.
Spartana has a(nother) forum to gloat, errr, inspire! Whoopieeee! I've been reading her gloats with envy for many years!And now that Iris-Lily will be joining me on the darkside and into ER soon you're next!
What strikes me about this forum is how dehumanizing and rude so many managers are.
It's not epic but I have quit on a whim more-or-less and immediately walked out of the building. It was very satisfying. Nothing soothes the soul like quitting a toxic job.
Ha Ha! I'm always happy to oblige :-)! The gloat-joke started at another forum because a guy there wanted to retire and we had a sort of poke-fun-at-each-other thing going where I would post something gloaty about early retirement and he would scream loudly :-)! Of course now he is retired and off doing all sorts of adventures - most involving travellin to various part of the world for months on end bike touring. So every few days he sends me a gloaty e-mail and now I'm the one who's screaming. Paybacks are, as they say, a bee-ach!Spartana has a(nother) forum to gloat, errr, inspire! Whoopieeee! I've been reading her gloats with envy for many years!And now that Iris-Lily will be joining me on the darkside and into ER soon you're next!
I feel so left out. I just met you and haven't read your gloats for too long yet, but I would like to receive the ER-prodding encouragement from the Queen of Gloat for my ER in the next few years.
No ridiculous FU money story here. Actually I had the opposite experience.
...
I stayed an additional year+ getting great experience while cutting back my hours to ~45hrs/week. It drove him crazy that he couldn't force me to work more hours or make me work on projects that I did not want to work on. However once I hit what the job marketplace considered as an acceptable amount of experience I lined up another job at a 40% pay increase in a different company and left two weeks later. No big exit, no ridiculous story, just the satisfaction that my family was significantly better off.
At a company my sister worked for, they randomly announced one morning that there would be drug testing for all employees that afternoon. More than 1/2 of the guys working at the loading dock left for lunch and never came back. Not particularly epic but the company probably learned to not schedule across the board drug testing unless they were willing to risk losing entire departments.
Mine isn't my FU money (well, it kind of is) but my husbands. Several years ago he was in a really shitty job, and one closer to home and with far less stress came up. So he applied for and took it.
He is a born organiser - not like me, I might add. When doing training for his new company they recognised this and asked if he wanted to go in as manager for a storefront that needed serious restructure and help, as opposed to the one just down the street that was already functioning well. He said yes. Six months later, once he got the first place up and running nicely and got rid of the dead wood, they "offered" him a transfer to a further away location. He told them he wanted to go back to the original place they'd hired him for. Seriously, it was so close he could have walked home and back for his 1/2 hour lunch break. They told him it was the one hour commute each way place or nothing. So he chose nothing. They countered with "but you have a mortgage! And four teenage children! You can't afford that on your wife's income!"
They were sort of right - we had to cut back the 50% savings rate we were working on for the six months he was out of work (having an awesome time playing with the house and the kids, by the way. And the live-in housekeeper and chef I had - I could get used to that!). But we didn't actually use any of our savings or FU money in the end. And they certainly didn't expect the "no, actually you're wrong, I'm leaving then" response that they got.
They told him it was the one hour commute each way place or nothing. So he chose nothing. They countered with "but you have a mortgage! And four teenage children! You can't afford that on your wife's income!"
I just realized, the most epic FU money story I've ever heard of is my brother's. It's more of an FU to life than work. He had a series of unfortunate life events coincide: his longtime girlfriend left him (from what I hear, he basically proposed and she said, "Actually, no, see ya") so he had to move out of the apartment they'd been sharing. Then he lost his job due to layoffs (in 2009). Then he turned 30 while living with our parents, jobless and girlfriendless. He said "Fuck life, I'm out." Planned a giant trip, mostly by bicycle, and left for the next year. (If you want to read the whole thing, he kept a blog: http://myliferebooted.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.html. Just don't mind the spelling errors, he's always been terrible at that!) It was seriously badass, and I'm still jealous that he did this.
At the time when I told people what he was doing they almost always said, "How can he afford that?!" I was like, "Um, he saved money while he had a job?" If you're wondering about the finances, he did it on significantly less than $30,000, because that was the money he set aside for this and he came back with enough to live on for a bit.
I just realized, the most epic FU money story I've ever heard of is my brother's. It's more of an FU to life than work. He had a series of unfortunate life events coincide: his longtime girlfriend left him (from what I hear, he basically proposed and she said, "Actually, no, see ya") so he had to move out of the apartment they'd been sharing. Then he lost his job due to layoffs (in 2009). Then he turned 30 while living with our parents, jobless and girlfriendless. He said "Fuck life, I'm out." Planned a giant trip, mostly by bicycle, and left for the next year. (If you want to read the whole thing, he kept a blog: http://myliferebooted.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.html. Just don't mind the spelling errors, he's always been terrible at that!) It was seriously badass, and I'm still jealous that he did this.
At the time when I told people what he was doing they almost always said, "How can he afford that?!" I was like, "Um, he saved money while he had a job?" If you're wondering about the finances, he did it on significantly less than $30,000, because that was the money he set aside for this and he came back with enough to live on for a bit.
I just realized, the most epic FU money story I've ever heard of is my brother's. It's more of an FU to life than work. He had a series of unfortunate life events coincide: his longtime girlfriend left him (from what I hear, he basically proposed and she said, "Actually, no, see ya") so he had to move out of the apartment they'd been sharing. Then he lost his job due to layoffs (in 2009). Then he turned 30 while living with our parents, jobless and girlfriendless. He said "Fuck life, I'm out." Planned a giant trip, mostly by bicycle, and left for the next year. (If you want to read the whole thing, he kept a blog: http://myliferebooted.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.html. Just don't mind the spelling errors, he's always been terrible at that!) It was seriously badass, and I'm still jealous that he did this.
At the time when I told people what he was doing they almost always said, "How can he afford that?!" I was like, "Um, he saved money while he had a job?" If you're wondering about the finances, he did it on significantly less than $30,000, because that was the money he set aside for this and he came back with enough to live on for a bit.
Ok, this is awesome! I've been reading his blog, not very far yet, but I'm jealous. Is he still single? LOL
I was originally going to just comment because I keep missing the updates, but realized something kind of cool.
I've never (until recently) had FU money, but I've always had a kind of life rule where "If I don't like what I'm doing, I do something else or go somewhere else).
One job I had when I was 17 (fast food). The money didn't bug me, but it was really soul crushing. Decided I was done. Turned in my two weeks at the beginning of the shift. The manager was extremely surprised because apparently nobody every did that while making minimum wage. Got put on shitty duty, and I realized that this is how the next two weeks were going to be. Walked up to her and told her I made a mistake. She got all smug and said I could stay. I looked at her, and said "Oh no. I just meant that even though that letter said two week notice, it was more like a two minute warning..." I know I stole that from somewhere, but it was still fun.
Had another job the next day.
Another time I worked as the lead baker. Fun work, biked in, and was on my own until about 6am when everyone else showed up. After some changes in management, they screwed up my check (by shorting me about 50%). I asked the new management what I needed to do to get it fixed, and they said deal with it. As I walked out, I accidentally had my knife open, and cut a 50lb bag of flour open...in front of a giant fan...that was on.
Those were fun, but not a huge deal. However, my most recent position was a bit more serious. I worked at a really cool cable company. Worked my way into a junior application dev role, and slowly worked my way up until I was a full developer with 6 years of professional experience. Lot's of reorganization happened, and the company turned into something like a shinier version of comcast...not pleasant. My boss left, followed shortly thereafter by the rest of my department. New boss came in, and while he was a good politician, not that great at anything else...like managing, or technology, or being smart. I new I should leave, but was scared to death. I was making like $45K/year!!! I'd be stupid to give that up!! At this time, I also had just found MMM and read every article, plus I had my old boss cheering me on, saying that I was worth a lot more than what I was getting. Thought about looking, so I brushed off the resume, and got the sense of what my skill set was actually worth. The boss called me in, and said (since I was the only one left) that I was invaluable, and they would like to offer me a substantial raise...to $50K.
I realized that invaluable wasn't the right word, and that I wasn't valued at all. I immediately turned in my two weeks notice. 3 days later I got an offer doing work that was really fun, for a substantially larger amount.
So not necessarily an FU money story, but more of an anecdote about how much fear can cost you. You don't even need FU money per se to do the math and know that you'll be okay. FIRE date is within 6 years now, since I almost completely avoided the lifestyle inflation aspect of getting more money.
I'll never forget the day I shot myself in the face with MMM's optimism gun (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/10/03/the-practical-benefits-of-outrageous-optimism/), and got free from that fear.
OK I though of a semi-FU story. I worked for a government agency and we consolidated with several others but kept in the lead position as far as who managed what. I headed my own very small dept. When we consolidated, we were told everyone's hours where changing. I refused to change my hours. Just said "no" and kept coming in at the same time I always did. Did this for awhile with them constantly telling me I couldn't do that. I just said that I hired on at those hours and would work those hours. If that wasn't acceptable then they would have to fire me. They didn't and I just continued on working my same old hours until I quit a year or 2 later.
OK I though of a semi-FU story. I worked for a government agency and we consolidated with several others but kept in the lead position as far as who managed what. I headed my own very small dept. When we consolidated, we were told everyone's hours where changing. I refused to change my hours. Just said "no" and kept coming in at the same time I always did. Did this for awhile with them constantly telling me I couldn't do that. I just said that I hired on at those hours and would work those hours. If that wasn't acceptable then they would have to fire me. They didn't and I just continued on working my same old hours until I quit a year or 2 later.
I just realized, the most epic FU money story I've ever heard of is my brother's. It's more of an FU to life than work. He had a series of unfortunate life events coincide: his longtime girlfriend left him (from what I hear, he basically proposed and she said, "Actually, no, see ya") so he had to move out of the apartment they'd been sharing. Then he lost his job due to layoffs (in 2009). Then he turned 30 while living with our parents, jobless and girlfriendless. He said "Fuck life, I'm out." Planned a giant trip, mostly by bicycle, and left for the next year. (If you want to read the whole thing, he kept a blog: http://myliferebooted.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.html. Just don't mind the spelling errors, he's always been terrible at that!) It was seriously badass, and I'm still jealous that he did this.
At the time when I told people what he was doing they almost always said, "How can he afford that?!" I was like, "Um, he saved money while he had a job?" If you're wondering about the finances, he did it on significantly less than $30,000, because that was the money he set aside for this and he came back with enough to live on for a bit.
Ok, this is awesome! I've been reading his blog, not very far yet, but I'm jealous. Is he still single? LOL
Actually, yes he is! Broke up with another girlfriend a few months ago, albeit on friendlier terms. And, he lives in Seattle! I've sometimes thought about trying to set him up with a Seattle Mustachian....
Just glad I had keys and the security code to get in there or I would have had to start later like everyone else :-)!OK I though of a semi-FU story. I worked for a government agency and we consolidated with several others but kept in the lead position as far as who managed what. I headed my own very small dept. When we consolidated, we were told everyone's hours where changing. I refused to change my hours. Just said "no" and kept coming in at the same time I always did. Did this for awhile with them constantly telling me I couldn't do that. I just said that I hired on at those hours and would work those hours. If that wasn't acceptable then they would have to fire me. They didn't and I just continued on working my same old hours until I quit a year or 2 later.
Nice. It may have hurt your "reviews" or ability to get a glowing recommendation, but if you're not worried about that and are confident in your ability to find a job (which you should be - too many people are scared, rather than confident), then that's the perfect way to handle that.
"I was hired under X, I will continue, if you don't like it, fire me." Love it. :D
I just realized, the most epic FU money story I've ever heard of is my brother's. It's more of an FU to life than work. He had a series of unfortunate life events coincide: his longtime girlfriend left him (from what I hear, he basically proposed and she said, "Actually, no, see ya") so he had to move out of the apartment they'd been sharing. Then he lost his job due to layoffs (in 2009). Then he turned 30 while living with our parents, jobless and girlfriendless. He said "Fuck life, I'm out." Planned a giant trip, mostly by bicycle, and left for the next year. (If you want to read the whole thing, he kept a blog: http://myliferebooted.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.html. Just don't mind the spelling errors, he's always been terrible at that!) It was seriously badass, and I'm still jealous that he did this.
At the time when I told people what he was doing they almost always said, "How can he afford that?!" I was like, "Um, he saved money while he had a job?" If you're wondering about the finances, he did it on significantly less than $30,000, because that was the money he set aside for this and he came back with enough to live on for a bit.
Ok, this is awesome! I've been reading his blog, not very far yet, but I'm jealous. Is he still single? LOL
Actually, yes he is! Broke up with another girlfriend a few months ago, albeit on friendlier terms. And, he lives in Seattle! I've sometimes thought about trying to set him up with a Seattle Mustachian....
I've been reading his blog. Up through his arrival in London. Sounds like an awesome trip! I've dreamed of doing something smaller down the Pacific coast (N. Cali down the coast). I looked at a tour group that did the ride, but even in my pre-mmm days I thought the price was too steep.
I need to hook up with some other bicyclists in the city. my ex was so inactive, and we did so few things together anyway, that I didn't want to add another activity that I did alone. But now that I'm single, I'd love to join a cycling group up here! In Salt Lake I rode with a group called the Sugarhouse Cyclists. We were just a group of people that would go out on group rides all over the city. Loved it!
If you think he'd be up for it, I'd love to meet, even if its just to discuss cycling in the city!
I do know of an EPIC quitting story but I got screwed in the process. I bought a motorcycle from a guy who said the title was in his truck and he would get it for me that night. I stupidly believed him and he never gave me the title. He wouldn't answer his phone when I called. He worked at Walmart and one time I spoofed the caller ID so it looked like Walmart was calling. He answered but gave more excuses. A few months later he went into Walmart and shot his boss in the chest with a 44 Mag (he lived) and holed up in the bathroom until cops came. I had to part that bike out on ebay.
Oh hell yeah Bartleby!OK I though of a semi-FU story. I worked for a government agency and we consolidated with several others but kept in the lead position as far as who managed what. I headed my own very small dept. When we consolidated, we were told everyone's hours where changing. I refused to change my hours. Just said "no" and kept coming in at the same time I always did. Did this for awhile with them constantly telling me I couldn't do that. I just said that I hired on at those hours and would work those hours. If that wasn't acceptable then they would have to fire me. They didn't and I just continued on working my same old hours until I quit a year or 2 later.
"I'd prefer not to,"may be a bit more apt. =)
What kind of mumbo jumbo is that?
In what country do you get un/employment insurance benefits if you quit? Neither the US nor Canada offers this as far as I'm aware and there are sound policy reasons for not doing so. The exception is if you can demonstrate you were constructively dismissed.
Now, as far as "asshole managers", in my experience sometimes asshole managers are really fine managers with an asshole employee. It is hard to know without hearing the other side.
In the case where a manager is really unreasonably difficult/harassing they will contravene employment standards and/or human rights protections and you can quit and claim constructive dismissal. There are often complaints processes that can be accessed in these circumstances as well.
Just meaning to say that since is difficult to quit, employer could use that to enforce a certain stress/abuse because they know that the people CAN'T quit, since they must work to survive paycheck to paycheck.
btw, in most countries in europe you get a unemployment subsidy (if you have worked long enough to have right for) the moment you apply for it: it doesn't matter why you are jobless (even if you quit), just that you are jobless. But many people seek a new job immediately, since the longest you stay on subsidy, the harder it is to find a job since employer will find strange that you are getting the subsidy for so long, and prefer someone else.
OK I though of a semi-FU story. I worked for a government agency and we consolidated with several others but kept in the lead position as far as who managed what. I headed my own very small dept. When we consolidated, we were told everyone's hours where changing. I refused to change my hours. Just said "no" and kept coming in at the same time I always did. Did this for awhile with them constantly telling me I couldn't do that. I just said that I hired on at those hours and would work those hours. If that wasn't acceptable then they would have to fire me. They didn't and I just continued on working my same old hours until I quit a year or 2 later.
SO FUCKING TRUE!!!! I'm at the Pentagon, and have run out of fingers counting the people who don't even show up to work but continue to geta a full paycheck. One guy disappearred for over 3 months, and showed up this past Christmas Eve smelling like a distillery. Sure, they sent him to rehab twice since then, but he is still getting paid. Another lady had the NCIS investigating here whereabouts, because she never showed up to work over about a 6 month period. And this doesn't even cover the people who come to work and do nothing. As for me, I try my best to get the job done, but my office breeds an unhealthy work ethic because all the BS that is tolerated, and the fact that quality work is rewarded with more work, while the slackers earn the same as everyone else.OK I though of a semi-FU story. I worked for a government agency and we consolidated with several others but kept in the lead position as far as who managed what. I headed my own very small dept. When we consolidated, we were told everyone's hours where changing. I refused to change my hours. Just said "no" and kept coming in at the same time I always did. Did this for awhile with them constantly telling me I couldn't do that. I just said that I hired on at those hours and would work those hours. If that wasn't acceptable then they would have to fire me. They didn't and I just continued on working my same old hours until I quit a year or 2 later.
At the risk of being labeled one of those lazy, un-fireable government employees (I'm not), I do have to say that the mere presence in the government workforce of numerous employees who should have been fired years ago but haven't been, kinda gives me a sense of security akin to FU money security. I mean, so long as I don't do drugs and don't commit any serious crimes, it's pretty fucking hard to get fired here. But on the flip-side, those golden handcuffs (i.e., the generous LEO pension) keep me here no matter how dull or uninspiring my job is (and it is at times just that), so not having the freedom to just walk away on a whim can be a little stifling at times too. But I can see the light at the end of the tunnel (and it ain't an oncoming train) just less than 5 years away . . .
Well quitting was a hard decision to make as a govmint employee. Having to give up those long grueling lunch hours and donut and nap breaks was tough :-)! But seriously, yes it was a tough choice knowing that if I just stayed an extra 8 years until I was 50 I'd have a much bigger pension and if I stayed an additional 5 years beyond that I'd have low cost medical, but I was done so flew the coop. Best decision I made I think. Now I can nap and eat donuts when ever I want, and take even longer lunches then ever before :-)!OK I though of a semi-FU story. I worked for a government agency and we consolidated with several others but kept in the lead position as far as who managed what. I headed my own very small dept. When we consolidated, we were told everyone's hours where changing. I refused to change my hours. Just said "no" and kept coming in at the same time I always did. Did this for awhile with them constantly telling me I couldn't do that. I just said that I hired on at those hours and would work those hours. If that wasn't acceptable then they would have to fire me. They didn't and I just continued on working my same old hours until I quit a year or 2 later.
At the risk of being labeled one of those lazy, un-fireable government employees (I'm not), I do have to say that the mere presence in the government workforce of numerous employees who should have been fired years ago but haven't been, kinda gives me a sense of security akin to FU money security. I mean, so long as I don't do drugs and don't commit any serious crimes, it's pretty fucking hard to get fired here. But on the flip-side, those golden handcuffs (i.e., the generous LEO pension) keep me here no matter how dull or uninspiring my job is (and it is at times just that), so not having the freedom to just walk away on a whim can be a little stifling at times too. But I can see the light at the end of the tunnel (and it ain't an oncoming train) just less than 5 years away . . .
Not an FU money story but recently put my manager in his place.
I work for a small firm (10 employees during the summer, 7 in the winter). The owner is in his very late 60s. Many people who work for the firm (or have left recently) are concerned about my bossss age. My coworkers are afraid of "the unknown". My senior coworker and my manager have work for my boss forever.
My boss hasn't made any clear indications as to when he plans on retiring and/or what will happen to the business afterwards. My manager has made it clear that he does not want to take over the business. At this time, he is the only qualified person to take it over. Every so often my manager tries to talk about my boss doing succession planning. This is followed by my boss telling my manager, "if you are concerned about the business, write me a check and it is yours". That shuts my manager up for a bit.
My manager has become increasingly annoying about the topic. He will come in my office and spend an hour telling me that we should have a meeting with my boss. He thinks I should be the one to voice the concerns because he thinks my boss "likes me the best" and if my manager mentions anything it just turns into an argument.
I tried to tell my manager that I didn't feel comfortable to have a meeting and be the one to put things on the table when my manager and senior worker have worked for my boss 20 years compared to my 3 years.
A month ago, my manager tried to talk to me again about the topic. I stopped him and pointed out that I will not be the person to discuss the topic with my boss. I explained that the only people who need to be concerned are the workers who feel as if they do not have other options. I went on to tell him that I am more than capable of finding a new employer and it won't take long. I have options. If he doesn't have options, he should start working towards creating options.
He hasn't brought it up since, even now that my boss is getting a surgery.
Not an FU money story but recently put my manager in his place.
I work for a small firm (10 employees during the summer, 7 in the winter). The owner is in his very late 60s. Many people who work for the firm (or have left recently) are concerned about my bossss age. My coworkers are afraid of "the unknown". My senior coworker and my manager have work for my boss forever.
My boss hasn't made any clear indications as to when he plans on retiring and/or what will happen to the business afterwards. My manager has made it clear that he does not want to take over the business. At this time, he is the only qualified person to take it over. Every so often my manager tries to talk about my boss doing succession planning. This is followed by my boss telling my manager, "if you are concerned about the business, write me a check and it is yours". That shuts my manager up for a bit.
My manager has become increasingly annoying about the topic. He will come in my office and spend an hour telling me that we should have a meeting with my boss. He thinks I should be the one to voice the concerns because he thinks my boss "likes me the best" and if my manager mentions anything it just turns into an argument.
I tried to tell my manager that I didn't feel comfortable to have a meeting and be the one to put things on the table when my manager and senior worker have worked for my boss 20 years compared to my 3 years.
A month ago, my manager tried to talk to me again about the topic. I stopped him and pointed out that I will not be the person to discuss the topic with my boss. I explained that the only people who need to be concerned are the workers who feel as if they do not have other options. I went on to tell him that I am more than capable of finding a new employer and it won't take long. I have options. If he doesn't have options, he should start working towards creating options.
He hasn't brought it up since, even now that my boss is getting a surgery.
Nice way to put it!
I currently work for a small business owned by two older men - one is around 70 something, the other is Japanese and honestly I can't tell how old he is (I know he is over 50 because we had a bday party for him last week, but that is the most I know). One owner had a stroke last October. He has done really well in recovery, but who knows if they have any succession plans in place.
However, as you said above, I'm not too worried. I'm employable - everyone needs accountants/CPAs - and I know if anything does happen I can easily take my time to find another job.
Under the trucking rules, you needed to declare all shop time as hours worked, not driving....which counted towards your overall hours worked in a day. These clowns told all of us not to mark in those hours worked but to instead mark them as time off. That's a big no no in trucking but no one seemed to care. They also had non qualified workers performing brake jobs, bearing changes and all sorts of other repairs that required a certified tradesperson to perform.Did you report them to the relevant authorities? You should. It could save somebody's life.
So I kinda just kept my head down and mouth shut until one particular day when I was asked to go into a confined space. There are all sorts of safety rules that dictate what sorts of steps you need to perform in order to ensure safety for the workers entering the confined space. I won't go into them here....but I am well versed in what they are from my years spent working in mills. Anyway...I refused to do the job. My boss just explodes in anger in front of me and a couple other guys. He gets really mad and basically accuses me of being a lazy ass who is trying to skip out on the work. I told him that I had lots of experience in this area and I'd be happy to go over the proper rules with him but he was having none of it.
Did you report them to the relevant authorities? You should. It could save somebody's life.
If you think he'd be up for it, I'd love to meet, even if its just to discuss cycling in the city!
If you think he'd be up for it, I'd love to meet, even if its just to discuss cycling in the city!
I'm waiting on updates telling us all how you met the love of your life through the FU money stories thread :-P
If you think he'd be up for it, I'd love to meet, even if its just to discuss cycling in the city!
I'm waiting on updates telling us all how you met the love of your life through the FU money stories thread :-P
(I don't think she's FIRE at 34ish, but it's not something I've ever asked. Seems a bit too personal to randomly bring up in conversation.)
(I don't think she's FIRE at 34ish, but it's not something I've ever asked. Seems a bit too personal to randomly bring up in conversation.)
It's okay if you do it delicately and on the sly, like this: "So how much money do you have?"
(I don't think she's FIRE at 34ish, but it's not something I've ever asked. Seems a bit too personal to randomly bring up in conversation.)
It's okay if you do it delicately and on the sly, like this: "So how much money do you have?"
Lol "what's in your wallet"
(I don't think she's FIRE at 34ish, but it's not something I've ever asked. Seems a bit too personal to randomly bring up in conversation.)
It's okay if you do it delicately and on the sly, like this: "So how much money do you have?"
Lol "what's in your wallet"
I think "so, do you think you'll ever go back to work?" might get you there without being too invasive
Been stacking cheddar?
I then imagined the XXX (beer) guy, which added enough class to where I think you could pull it off.
Pretty sure the triple x beer guy doesn't always drink beer, but when he does, the bottles get lodged... places (on camera).
I then imagined the XXX (beer) guy, which added enough class to where I think you could pull it off.
I don't always drink beer. But when I do, I prefer tres equis.
Very nice jordanread. ; )
If dos equis is good, tres equis must be better right? Particularly in our gluttonous culture of more more more.
You know, I thought that seemed off but couldn't figure out why. I even typed dos, and then took the easy way, which I think turned out even more awesome.
Agreed
tres equis: https://screen.yahoo.com/tres-equis-ii-000000238.html (https://screen.yahoo.com/tres-equis-ii-000000238.html)
Did you report them to the relevant authorities? You should. It could save somebody's life.
Not a story, but I came across this image on The Oatmeal and it seemed like a good mental picture for this thread:
https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10447073_10154349984680078_6092289075562906656_n.jpg
... and yes, those are stacks of money spelling out FU.
Not a story, but I came across this image on The Oatmeal and it seemed like a good mental picture for this thread:
https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10447073_10154349984680078_6092289075562906656_n.jpg
... and yes, those are stacks of money spelling out FU.
I remember following that story. Didn't even think about the FU Money thing...I believe that was $250,000 but can't be sure off the top of my head.
offer: you can get your thank-you bonus (2 months salary), work full time for two months (at double my previous PT salary), or work part time for two months (at my previous salary). I laughed out loud when I read this. It was the bonus OR work.
offer: you can get your thank-you bonus (2 months salary), work full time for two months (at double my previous PT salary), or work part time for two months (at my previous salary). I laughed out loud when I read this. It was the bonus OR work.
So options #1 and #3 were the same amount of money, but #1 is no work and #3 requires work? Doy.
offer: you can get your thank-you bonus (2 months salary), work full time for two months (at double my previous PT salary), or work part time for two months (at my previous salary). I laughed out loud when I read this. It was the bonus OR work.
So options #1 and #3 were the same amount of money, but #1 is no work and #3 requires work? Doy.
Yeah! That moment I actually wanted to say FU (and the bf actually told me to).
I bet they actually expect some people to continue working with an offer like that. In a bizarre sort of sense, some people would think they would be in a stronger position while hunting for a new job if they are still presently employed....never mind they are sacrificing all those hours they could use job hunting working for no net benefit versus taking the severance. Add to that they are throwing away another moderately well paying job -- job hunting while on unemployment (usually at 1/2 your regular pay)!
I bet they actually expect some people to continue working with an offer like that. In a bizarre sort of sense, some people would think they would be in a stronger position while hunting for a new job if they are still presently employed....never mind they are sacrificing all those hours they could use job hunting working for no net benefit versus taking the severance. Add to that they are throwing away another moderately well paying job -- job hunting while on unemployment (usually at 1/2 your regular pay)!
As a contractor I didn't really have the possibility of getting on unemployment. I'll look into my local laws for this, but I'm pretty sure I can't. Maybe next time? I didn't have the "right" to a severance bonus either. But since they offered the OR, I asked for the AND. And got it. It was really sweet and I must say I only got the guts to negotiate it after reading several threads on this forum and following a few links to external resources on negotiating... Thanks, everyone!
She demanded two weeks notice, which still included me missing class to come to work. I said, nope! I could not believe that I didn't get fired for mouthing off to her.
QuoteShe demanded two weeks notice, which still included me missing class to come to work. I said, nope! I could not believe that I didn't get fired for mouthing off to her.
Wow, she was a moron. I think my response to that would have been "Okay, you drive a hard bargain, M'am, so even though I just quit, my last day will actually be two weeks from today instead of tonight. And you are right: I will be here on Tuesdays as well." Then I would just have never come back.
I find myself explaining the concept of "Nobody HAS TO do ANYTHING when it comes to a job" to people on a regular basis. We've had more than one person just stop showing up, or email a resignation letter while they are on vacation (with the last day of work conveniently falling on a future date that they are still on vacation), or agree to take on a big project and then turn around and put an "I resign effective immediately" letter under the boss's door after hours, yet somehow the illusion that people have to keep coming into the office until they are given permission to leave persists.
Destroying a bridge might look easy in the movies, but remember: They're designed to withstand the immense shear-forces of wind and weather. Deploying an underwater M-32 satchel charge at the base of each load-bearing pylon looks like the answer, but it might not even shake a modern riveted steel highway or railroad bridge. Without delving into the complex language of the guerrilla combat engineer, the best advice I can give you is to forgo subtlety in favor of brute force: Put two satchel charges at each X-shaped trestle buck, and this should rob the bridge of any reinforcing strength and cause it to buckle nicely.
What my structural engineering buddy is trying to say is, create a chain type structure with your first hit and knock it down with the second.Destroying a bridge might look easy in the movies, but remember: They're designed to withstand the immense shear-forces of wind and weather. Deploying an underwater M-32 satchel charge at the base of each load-bearing pylon looks like the answer, but it might not even shake a modern riveted steel highway or railroad bridge. Without delving into the complex language of the guerrilla combat engineer, the best advice I can give you is to forgo subtlety in favor of brute force: Put two satchel charges at each X-shaped trestle buck, and this should rob the bridge of any reinforcing strength and cause it to buckle nicely.
Can you please rewrite that in a way that explains the metaphor? I'm not sure you're saying we should explode our bosses or even what exactly is made to withstand wind and weather (the job market)? ;-)
Destroying a bridge might look easy in the movies, but remember: They're designed to withstand the immense shear-forces of wind and weather. Deploying an underwater M-32 satchel charge at the base of each load-bearing pylon looks like the answer, but it might not even shake a modern riveted steel highway or railroad bridge. Without delving into the complex language of the guerrilla combat engineer, the best advice I can give you is to forgo subtlety in favor of brute force: Put two satchel charges at each X-shaped trestle buck, and this should rob the bridge of any reinforcing strength and cause it to buckle nicely.
Can you please rewrite that in a way that explains the metaphor? I'm not sure you're saying we should explode our bosses or even what exactly is made to withstand wind and weather (the job market)? ;-)
Destroying a bridge might look easy in the movies, but remember: They're designed to withstand the immense shear-forces of wind and weather. Deploying an underwater M-32 satchel charge at the base of each load-bearing pylon looks like the answer, but it might not even shake a modern riveted steel highway or railroad bridge. Without delving into the complex language of the guerrilla combat engineer, the best advice I can give you is to forgo subtlety in favor of brute force: Put two satchel charges at each X-shaped trestle buck, and this should rob the bridge of any reinforcing strength and cause it to buckle nicely.
Can you please rewrite that in a way that explains the metaphor? I'm not sure you're saying we should explode our bosses or even what exactly is made to withstand wind and weather (the job market)? ;-)
It's easy to quit in an epic manner, but you should remember that dick managers are pretty much born dicks: they're not going to give a shit about you quitting. So instead of using the old go-to Fuck-You-I'm-done methods of quitting, you need to quit in such a manner that no one's going to posses any illusions of a cordial exit. Instead of getting in a more-than-mild spat with said dick manager, the simplest and most effective thing to do is to fucking destroy any hope of good relations with that company, and make sure they know the entire mess is due to dick manager.
Destroying a bridge might look easy in the movies, but remember: They're designed to withstand the immense shear-forces of wind and weather. Deploying an underwater M-32 satchel charge at the base of each load-bearing pylon looks like the answer, but it might not even shake a modern riveted steel highway or railroad bridge. Without delving into the complex language of the guerrilla combat engineer, the best advice I can give you is to forgo subtlety in favor of brute force: Put two satchel charges at each X-shaped trestle buck, and this should rob the bridge of any reinforcing strength and cause it to buckle nicely.
Can you please rewrite that in a way that explains the metaphor? I'm not sure you're saying we should explode our bosses or even what exactly is made to withstand wind and weather (the job market)? ;-)
It's easy to quit in an epic manner, but you should remember that dick managers are pretty much born dicks: they're not going to give a shit about you quitting. So instead of using the old go-to Fuck-You-I'm-done methods of quitting, you need to quit in such a manner that no one's going to posses any illusions of a cordial exit. Instead of getting in a more-than-mild spat with said dick manager, the simplest and most effective thing to do is to fucking destroy any hope of good relations with that company, and make sure they know the entire mess is due to dick manager.
http://youtu.be/qfSAcVq6s9c?t=2m22s
She told me, get this, that I needed think about my priorities and get them straight.
Long time reader, first time poster here! My FU money story isn't very epic, but here goes.
I recently gave my notice at a job I've worked at for over 10 years to go back to grad school full time in a field I'm passionate about.
As a 40 yo single mom of 2, I thought I would be stuck working at a job I hate forever; but after reading MMM and especially jlcollinsnh, I realized that I need to "work to live", not "live to work."
Since I've always been pretty mustachian, I had enough money saved to say FU to my crappy desk job and hello to my dream career. It's a huge step and I'm really excited to take it!
Destroying a bridge might look easy in the movies, but remember: They're designed to withstand the immense shear-forces of wind and weather. Deploying an underwater M-32 satchel charge at the base of each load-bearing pylon looks like the answer, but it might not even shake a modern riveted steel highway or railroad bridge. Without delving into the complex language of the guerrilla combat engineer, the best advice I can give you is to forgo subtlety in favor of brute force: Put two satchel charges at each X-shaped trestle buck, and this should rob the bridge of any reinforcing strength and cause it to buckle nicely.
Can you please rewrite that in a way that explains the metaphor? I'm not sure you're saying we should explode our bosses or even what exactly is made to withstand wind and weather (the job market)? ;-)
It's easy to quit in an epic manner, but you should remember that dick managers are pretty much born dicks: they're not going to give a shit about you quitting. So instead of using the old go-to Fuck-You-I'm-done methods of quitting, you need to quit in such a manner that no one's going to posses any illusions of a cordial exit. Instead of getting in a more-than-mild spat with said dick manager, the simplest and most effective thing to do is to fucking destroy any hope of good relations with that company, and make sure they know the entire mess is due to dick manager.
Shrimp in the hollow space of a curtain rod?
Destroying a bridge might look easy in the movies, but remember: They're designed to withstand the immense shear-forces of wind and weather. Deploying an underwater M-32 satchel charge at the base of each load-bearing pylon looks like the answer, but it might not even shake a modern riveted steel highway or railroad bridge. Without delving into the complex language of the guerrilla combat engineer, the best advice I can give you is to forgo subtlety in favor of brute force: Put two satchel charges at each X-shaped trestle buck, and this should rob the bridge of any reinforcing strength and cause it to buckle nicely.
Yeah, nobody HAS to leave bridges intact. Some could burn them.
Dear Navy SEAL,
I am a happily married man with a warm and loving wife who is also my best friend. We've been together for 17 years and couldn't be happier. But lately she says she wants separate beds. I'm reeling! We're barely in our 40s, and in my mind separate sleeping is for seniors. Am I making too much of this? Help!
—Anxious In Andersonville
Dear Navy SEAL,
I am a happily married man with a warm and loving wife who is also my best friend. We've been together for 17 years and couldn't be happier. But lately she says she wants separate beds. I'm reeling! We're barely in our 40s, and in my mind separate sleeping is for seniors. Am I making too much of this? Help!
—Anxious In Andersonville
While larger rounds incapacitate a target more reliably than the smaller 5.56, they are also much heavier to hump over the mountains. Being able to lay down a more ferocious volume of fire can be well worth the decrease in stopping power, especially when you have encountered a frisky opponent. Utilize your SAW gunner to suppress incoming fire, while your assault team maneuvers to better overrun the enemy position. If bounding proves difficult, remember, 5.56 can penetrate cover like Swiss cheese, although you will still be prudent to continuously engage targets until all teams have swept the objective area.
QuoteYeah, nobody HAS to leave bridges intact. Some could burn them.
Deciding you don't have to do XYZ task or project, or even that you don't have to work there is not burning a bridge.
We've had more than one person just stop showing up, or email a resignation letter while they are on vacation (with the last day of work conveniently falling on a future date that they are still on vacation), or agree to take on a big project and then turn around and put an "I resign effective immediately" letter under the boss's door after hours
We didn't want to try to live in a foreign land with an unfamiliar culture and no friends-- so my spouse chose Yokosuka.
Halfway through his rant, I held up my hand and very calmly said: "I dont come to work to be yelled at so I'm going to be quitting right now. You can continue yelling about things but it doesnt matter from this point onwards. By the way, my partner will also be quitting".
The look on his face was priceless. Luckily my partner and I had both agreed we would quit if either of us wanted to.. and because we both had our other jobs and a large emergency cash pile leaving this one would have no major impacts on us.
Teamwork!!
I left me first job after college.......
A good friend of mine had a small business doing appliance installation and repair. One day he reports to a mansion just outside of NYC, and spent several hours installing a downdraft exhaust on a new range. He presents the bill to the owner, and expects a check. The owner is a professional body builder, who looks down at my buddy and says, " FU, I'm not paying you, get out" When asked what the issue is, the customer just states that he doesn't have to pay, so get out. A few weeks later my buddy is surf fishing and lands a serious fish. He waits for darkness, and heads to the muscle head's mansion. He jumps the wall, unscrews the grille from the range exhaust, and using a broom handle, pushes his catch about ten feet into the ductwork under the kitchen........
While I like the story a better one would have been the installer putting a mechanic's lien on the mansion and then foreclosing on it!
Nords, that brought a tear to my eye.
What a great story about priorities, Nords! And look how your daughter turned out and where she's at now. I have no doubt that you made the right decision.Thanks!
http://www.departurememo.com/ - more the way I want to be about my departure.
Well I've left a couple of jobs because there was some awful stuff going on, but I had no kind of FU money when I did it (I kind of did the second time but it's complicated), so I don't have a story of my own.
But when I was still working at Wal-Mart, I was witness to the Legend of Frank.
Frank was an older, white haired gentleman who was already a hero, he'd had a long military career and the truth is, he was one of the best employees the store had. But he had his terms. He had the only job at Wal-Mart he cared to have, and he worked the only shift he cared to work.
But he'd done so well for so long, no one had a problem with this. Thing is Frank did not need the money, at all. He had a military pension, his house was paid for, and he was actually delaying Social Security for a bigger payment because he didn't need it. He worked for reasons that aren't fathomable to me. He used the money he made to buy fishing lures and gave a chunk of it away to the Children's Miracle Network and stuff like that.
Now I have good and bad things to say about Wal-Mart. Right now I'm going to say one of the bad things.
I don't know if this is by some evil design (I doubt it, never ascribe to malignancy that which can be explained by incompetence) or what, but it seems every once in a while some goober in Arkansas, for the hell of it, decides to change the way employees are scheduled or what jobs exist and what they do, and the usual effect of this is it tends to make older, more highly paid workers quit or find themselves in situations where they have to resign because they have a personal situation where they can't start working nights instead of mornings or something like that.
As a graduate of business school myself, I call that MBA thinking, and I say that pejoratively. Actions like this are necessary sometimes but what I saw was something that some overpaid executive cooked up on a spreadsheet to make it look like he/she found a way to save money when in fact he/she was only shuffling people around and causing operational risks. If (s)he'd paid attention in business school he'd realize what he/she was doing was in fact pointless.
This is what happens when people under intense pressure to justify their huge six or even seven figure salaries who have never worked in a Wal-Mart store, who think of the company not as people and stores and trucks and groceries and merchandise but rather as abstract numbers, make decisions about the jobs of people they will never meet. I'm sure these corporate people are perfectly nice people, but I doubt very much that the $11 an hour workers whose fates they manipulate are more than an idea or a piece of the data to them. Dunbar's number. Wal-Mart has 2 million employees. You do the math.
Well anyway, someone decided that Frank's job was too cushy and he needed a new schedule. They basically took his job and another job, cut half the responsibilities and work from each, and switched them so you wound up with this weird situation where the new job had some of both of the old jobs. And while it wasn't a completely illogical way to do things, it didn't make sense to the people who actually did this work. This was a "I'm a smart corporate executive and you are a lowly peon, do what I say" initiative.
When this happens, they usually call you in to an office to tell you it's happened right before the schedules showing the changes come out. That way they can say they gave you advance notice without really giving you any ability to deal with it. It's a shitty thing they do because they know so many of their good employees won't quit because Wal-Mart is all they have.
But it didn't pan out for them this time.
Frank looked across at the overnight manager and said no, I won't do it.
The manager, who was a real douchebag, said yes you will and you'll like it (witness as unreliable but I can definitely imagine this guy saying that).
Frank looked at him and unclipped something from his belt and something from his shirt pocket. He then opened his wallet and removed something.
"Here's my box cutter. Here's my discount card. And here's my badge. That's everything I have of yours. I'm going home."
Three hours into his shift, Frank turned around and walked out the front door of Wal-Mart and into a legend, vanishing in the darkness of the parking lot. It threw the rest of us into chaos because we had to pick up the slack, but none of us complained, for he was our hero. Because at some point, every single one of us had wanted to do that.
Last I heard of Frank, he's doing a lot more fishing nowadays.
Hey guys, what was that website about a lawyer quitting her job?
My husband was stressed at work, hated the long commute, being away from our little girl for hours each day and working evenings and weekends from home. Not unhappy enough to quit, but to look for a new position. A buddy called, told him a rival company was opening a new office 5 miles from our house. Won't you join us?
We expected a pay cut, we just didn't know how much. Having FU money meant it really didn't matter how much, it was going to be work he enjoyed in a better environment and location. As long as the offer wasn't enough of a paycut that he felt insulted, we agreed that he'd take the position if offered.
The salary offer matched his old salary plus bonuses. Not an epic FU money story, but the money gave us freedom and confidence.
I honestly don't know whether I get kudos or a face punch for this. I am new to MMM, love the forum. Have been good with saving and investing my whole live, but due to job uncertainties over the last few years started hoarding cash in fear of being laid off. Sort of accidentally saved a giant FU fund. Last November my job got miserable (massive project, working 70+ hours per week) and I'm a single mom to a 9 year old boy who was struggling with school. We just found out he was dyslexic and I needed to have time with him to sort things out. Long story short my FU fund enabled me to give 2 weeks notice.
My employer (large consulting firm, I do HR/Recruiting) convinced me to take a 3 month leave of absence instead. I did, and when I came back I negotiated a flexible work arrangement where I work 8am-3pm at 80% pay. I'm off when my son comes home from school. Works great, and now I can focus on my FIRE plan.
My FU fund gave me the freedom to walk away, and my employer knows I am still willing to do so at any moment, which is great. I realize after reading the MMM blog and this forum though that having as much cash as I do is ridiculous though (well over 1 year's living expenses, what was I thinking??). I have Vanguard index funds and investments (401(k) and non-retirement, and am well diversified, just haven't been able to let go of this ridiculous safety blanket of cash. Time to fix that. I am 42 and think my ER goal is age 48 or 50.
It's technically not an FU story, yet, but I constantly remind the senior managers that they only have to put up with me for 10 more years. Each manager, all in their fifties, says the same thing "I wish I could retire in 10 years." That's when I tell them "not you. I'm retiring in 10 years." I'm literally half their age. One manager loves it when I do that to them.
I honestly don't know whether I get kudos or a face punch for this.
OP here, I think this lady takes the cake
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/alaska-tv-reporter-quits-on-air-fk-it-i-quit_b239657
Just found this article. Guess we can do this with impunity now...
http://www.caintv.com/obamas-nlrb-now-ordering-reins (http://www.caintv.com/obamas-nlrb-now-ordering-reins)
Not satire. Real. You can cuss out the boss and expect to keep your job.Just found this article. Guess we can do this with impunity now...
http://www.caintv.com/obamas-nlrb-now-ordering-reins (http://www.caintv.com/obamas-nlrb-now-ordering-reins)
What the f*%# did I just read? I sincerely hope that was satire, because otherwise it's partisan politics beyond inanity and into the realm of crazy.
Just found this article. Guess we can do this with impunity now...
http://www.caintv.com/obamas-nlrb-now-ordering-reins (http://www.caintv.com/obamas-nlrb-now-ordering-reins)
Not satire. Real. You can cuss out the boss and expect to keep your job.Just found this article. Guess we can do this with impunity now...
http://www.caintv.com/obamas-nlrb-now-ordering-reins (http://www.caintv.com/obamas-nlrb-now-ordering-reins)
What the f*%# did I just read? I sincerely hope that was satire, because otherwise it's partisan politics beyond inanity and into the realm of crazy.
Please provide me with your list of unbiased sources that I may use them.Not satire. Real. You can cuss out the boss and expect to keep your job.Just found this article. Guess we can do this with impunity now...
http://www.caintv.com/obamas-nlrb-now-ordering-reins (http://www.caintv.com/obamas-nlrb-now-ordering-reins)
What the f*%# did I just read? I sincerely hope that was satire, because otherwise it's partisan politics beyond inanity and into the realm of crazy.
I was referring to the article itself. It's crap. And I'm not saying this from a partisan perspective, but as someone who understands journalism. That article is not it. Find better sources.
Please provide me with your list of unbiased sources that I may use them.Not satire. Real. You can cuss out the boss and expect to keep your job.Just found this article. Guess we can do this with impunity now...
http://www.caintv.com/obamas-nlrb-now-ordering-reins (http://www.caintv.com/obamas-nlrb-now-ordering-reins)
What the f*%# did I just read? I sincerely hope that was satire, because otherwise it's partisan politics beyond inanity and into the realm of crazy.
I was referring to the article itself. It's crap. And I'm not saying this from a partisan perspective, but as someone who understands journalism. That article is not it. Find better sources.
Like someone else said, you don't leave companies, you leave bosses.
So over a period of days I have read every. single. post. on this thread. This is the greatest thread of all time.
I too have a kind-of FU story, though at no point did I burn bridges or say FU.
About 1.2 years ago I was 1.5 years into my first job and hating it. We were working 10-12 hour days and once a quarter we'd spend a weekend in the office. It's software so spending that long coding does something to your mind. This is not to say my boss was an asshole, or even his boss's boss, I love and still love all the people that worked at this company, and consider my former boss one of my best friends and mentors. It was just that the upper management demanded unreasonable things from us in unreasonable time so we all had to put in the effort.
Well, 1.2 years ago, I was standing in the shower after having worked the last 12 days in a row, 10-12 hours each, and suddenly I had a nervous break down. It felt terrible and such a release at the same time. I resolved then and there that I'd begin looking for work elsewhere. I'd done my time.
Right after that, as if the company sensed I was pissed(I had been doing some interviews), the hours lessened, the deadlines became more reasonable, and we graduated to 9-10 hour days and weekends were a virtual guarantee. There was one 34 hour stint in the office overnight to get a product launched but I wore that as a badge of honor. I decided to stay, but also I started posting for jobs on Elance.
I took a job making <5$/hr for 20 hrs to beat out the Indians and built a Ruby gem wrapper for some company's API. It was crappy work. The next job I got a month later paid 20$/hr, and eventually I got that client up to 60$/hr. By the end of last year(about 8 months after said break down), I was charging 80$/hr for 10-15hrs/week on the side of my real job running a private consulting firm.
By January of this year I was making 1$ for every 1$ I made at work, working only 10-15hrs a week, making 100$/hr. I had hired on my co-workers to do part-time work for me and was making 50% margins on their hours as well. In one two week period, I brought in 5,000$, outside of my normal paycheck.
Life was good. I was stashing hard. Then my main client offered me the CTO position at his company, for 2x my current salary, with similar equity. I thought about it hard for three weeks, and then informed my boss. My boss didn't even try to counter me, though if he had matched the price, or even come close, I would have certainly stayed - by this point the hours had gotten much more palatable.
I gave them 6 weeks notice, and during those 6 weeks the company offered me to keep working out of my office there since my new job was completely remote. They wanted to keep an eye on me and basically would let me have my job back whenever I want. In return, whenever they have a question about the software I wrote I'm right there to ask, and I still get to hang out with my co-workers every day(though they're in a different part of the building now.) They're good friends, so it works out.
The new company I work for is a startup and while they DO have money it is a risk. My previous company is worth 500mm. The stashing I did during the last year made sure I had at least 4 months expenses saved up before I dropped the bomb, and this is not even counting the years of coverage I have stashed in my retirement accounts if the worse came to worst.
FU money is a powerful thing. And now I'm freer than I've ever been.
Ah yes, nothing like an incestuous client relationship to keep the money train rolling :-)
I looked him in the eye and stated: You're a Dick.
One day she informed me, in front of coworkers, that my top was innappropriate because I was "jiggling" in it. It wasn't even low-cut or tight! I know because I checked with at least 3 other employees (other the ones who were right there and appropriattely mortified for me).
In my view, the real value of FU$ is that it allows one to not say FU and hang on in fairly poor, but not horrific situations. It changes your mindset and allows one to ignore stuff that would otherwise make you quit. Two cases where this is very valuable are 1) you're in a high paying job but want more savings and 2) you are near your preferred full retirement age......allows you to hold on rather than enter a job search.If it's any consolation, anecdotal experience over the last decade (both here and Early-Retirement.org) indicates that once you're FI you have even less patience for the BS.
Unfortunately for me, I didn't realize that I had FU$. Wasn't until after I quit (first time I'd quit without having a new job lined up) and started reading MMM, etc. that I started to realize I could cut way back on my earnings and be fine. With my new and better understanding of my situation, I probably would not have quit. Just knowing you can is a powerful thing. Makes me think of the quote "The best offense is a good defense".
One day she informed me, in front of coworkers, that my top was innappropriate because I was "jiggling" in it. It wasn't even low-cut or tight! I know because I checked with at least 3 other employees (other the ones who were right there and appropriattely mortified for me).
I am not an employment law expert, but I'd say (based on a fair amount of training as a manager) this is about as much of a glaring, textbook, poster child example of sexual harassment that you could find (okay, one slightly step higher would be "have sex with me or I'll fire you"). I'd venture that if you pursued a claim against the company, you would almost certainly win (or force a settlement). I'm not advocating that course of action, because you may very well deem it's best to let it go and give it no further attention or power in your life. But if you were inclined to do so, I'd say you have a rock solid case. Perhaps a lawyer with experience in this area could chime in, if needed.
Having read many of these stories here, I don't get one point: why do the posters feel self-congratulatory and proud about them in a cynical way?
From my point of view (of a self-employed individual who also employs some other people), you are the guys who have voluntarily signed a contract to work for someone, agreeing to conditions set out in said contract, essentially selling your best-effort labor for a given remuneration. If you don't like the conditions or think the pay is too low, you should have sought employment elsewhere (or maybe self-employment). If your employer is violating the contract terms, politely decline to continue working for them and get out. Even if your employer mistreated you, behaving like some entitled vengeful brat, sabotaging work while waiting for the "enough FU money release" and then sticking it "to the man" when you quit reflects as poorly on you as it does on your unfortunate boss.
Unless you were kidnapped and forced into slave labor, an bad employment contract is by your choice and by your fault to a great extent. Staying longer than you like and sacrificing your ethics and work morale just for the paycheck (or maybe for your children's sake or what not) demonstrates that you were probably not worth hiring in the first place.
P.S. It may come as a shock to you, but managers are people, too, not some bloodthirsty alien exploiters. They may be even genuinely worried about you from time to time, and they are most certainly concerned about making things run smoothly (if only in self-interest).
Having read many of these stories here, I don't get one point: why do the posters feel self-congratulatory and proud about them in a cynical way?
From my point of view (of a self-employed individual who also employs some other people), you are the guys who have voluntarily signed a contract to work for someone, agreeing to conditions set out in said contract, essentially selling your best-effort labor for a given remuneration. If you don't like the conditions or think the pay is too low, you should have sought employment elsewhere (or maybe self-employment). If your employer is violating the contract terms, politely decline to continue working for them and get out. Even if your employer mistreated you, behaving like some entitled vengeful brat, sabotaging work while waiting for the "enough FU money release" and then sticking it "to the man" when you quit reflects as poorly on you as it does on your unfortunate boss.
Unless you were kidnapped and forced into slave labor, an bad employment contract is by your choice and by your fault to a great extent. Staying longer than you like and sacrificing your ethics and work morale just for the paycheck (or maybe for your children's sake or what not) demonstrates that you were probably not worth hiring in the first place.
P.S. It may come as a shock to you, but managers are people, too, not some bloodthirsty alien exploiters. They may be even genuinely worried about you from time to time, and they are most certainly concerned about making things run smoothly (if only in self-interest).
Having read many of these stories here, I don't get one point: why do the posters feel self-congratulatory and proud about them in a cynical way?
From my point of view (of a self-employed individual who also employs some other people), you are the guys who have voluntarily signed a contract to work for someone, agreeing to conditions set out in said contract, essentially selling your best-effort labor for a given remuneration. If you don't like the conditions or think the pay is too low, you should have sought employment elsewhere (or maybe self-employment). If your employer is violating the contract terms, politely decline to continue working for them and get out. Even if your employer mistreated you, behaving like some entitled vengeful brat, sabotaging work while waiting for the "enough FU money release" and then sticking it "to the man" when you quit reflects as poorly on you as it does on your unfortunate boss.
Having read many of these stories here, I don't get one point: why do the posters feel self-congratulatory and proud about them in a cynical way?
From my point of view (of a self-employed individual who also employs some other people), you are the guys who have voluntarily signed a contract to work for someone, agreeing to conditions set out in said contract, essentially selling your best-effort labor for a given remuneration. If you don't like the conditions or think the pay is too low, you should have sought employment elsewhere (or maybe self-employment). If your employer is violating the contract terms, politely decline to continue working for them and get out. Even if your employer mistreated you, behaving like some entitled vengeful brat, sabotaging work while waiting for the "enough FU money release" and then sticking it "to the man" when you quit reflects as poorly on you as it does on your unfortunate boss.
Unless you were kidnapped and forced into slave labor, an bad employment contract is by your choice and by your fault to a great extent. Staying longer than you like and sacrificing your ethics and work morale just for the paycheck (or maybe for your children's sake or what not) demonstrates that you were probably not worth hiring in the first place.
P.S. It may come as a shock to you, but managers are people, too, not some bloodthirsty alien exploiters. They may be even genuinely worried about you from time to time, and they are most certainly concerned about making things run smoothly (if only in self-interest).
When you say "employment contract" are you speaking figuratively? Because while you make some good points, for many the only conditions set out as requirements are the minimum requirements of US labor law, and frankly, even then I've rarely seen all of them met at the same time, and this is at white collar and blue collar jobs alike.
Having read many of these stories here, I don't get one point: why do the posters feel self-congratulatory and proud about them in a cynical way?
From my point of view (of a self-employed individual who also employs some other people), you are the guys who have voluntarily signed a contract to work for someone, agreeing to conditions set out in said contract, essentially selling your best-effort labor for a given remuneration. If you don't like the conditions or think the pay is too low, you should have sought employment elsewhere (or maybe self-employment). If your employer is violating the contract terms, politely decline to continue working for them and get out. Even if your employer mistreated you, behaving like some entitled vengeful brat, sabotaging work while waiting for the "enough FU money release" and then sticking it "to the man" when you quit reflects as poorly on you as it does on your unfortunate boss.
Congrats! You figured out the point of this thread! Quitting feels good when your job sucks, but you can't quit if you're in debt or living paycheck to paycheck. Hence, F U Money.
One common problem in the U.S. are "non-compete agreements". So if you are good at your job in a particular field, but the working conditions at your company have deteriorated from when you first hired on (and signed the non-compete), you typically cannot work in the industry for 1-2 years, depending on the length of non-compete paperwork. For most of us who got a job right out of college and have worked at the same place for 10+ years, trying to break a non-compete agreement is a unknown (and somewhat scary) issue. Hence, the desire/freedom of having FU money available to ride out the unemployed/underemployed timeframe.
from what I understand non-compete agreements are rarely worth the paper they are written on
Well, the places I worked (white collar in Germany) all had written contracts that always included a job description, at least outlining the tasks and responsibilities involved, and also included the clause that I will essentially "do my best" to fulfill my assigned duties. So saying "FU" to my employer or attempting any other "epic" escape would certainly feel to me like breaching the contract that I myself signed.
In my field non-competes of a year are pretty typical, however, they are usually geographically limited. They can be challenged on the grounds that the geographic radius (5 miles or whatever) is wider than the area from which clients are drawn. However, if they are appropriate, they are enforceable. This is to stop associates from leaving a practice, setting up they're own shop (or moving to a neighboring practice) and poaching their previous employer's clients. Or, less commonly, to prevent a Dr. from selling their practice and then reopening a new practice shortly thereafter.Quotefrom what I understand non-compete agreements are rarely worth the paper they are written on...
Basically non-competes are bullshit scare tactics....
Zamboni and farmstache, I see your point ("this is not what I signed up for"), but still I wouldn't condone developing a FU attitude - I guess I dislike that it implicitly (and perhaps somewhat paradoxically) puts you into a "vengeful victim" position rather than at eye level with your employer.
I have 2 related stories of being willing to end a job when the circumstances merited:
1. My long time office was moving to another city, and offered to fund my relocation with them. After considering all the options, I said no but helped train my replacement and accepted a lovely severance/parting package. I took a few months off without even looking for another job, then decided to try out temping.
2. The agency put me in a 'temp to hire' position that started off ok, but my coworkers were horrible. After a particularly bad day I realized there was no reason for me to continue. I called the agency and asked how much notice was needed to quit. "None" (Mental high-five!) But the next day when the agency relayed to the company that I would not be returning, the big boss asked for permission to contact me. I consented and explained why I didn't want to continue, then he explained that my coworkers were "known bullies" but that he planned to close that department in 2 months. They had not yet given the layoff notices, but if I was willing to keep that information confidential they wanted me to continue on during the transition, then afterwards in a better position. I admit it was a lovely feeling going back into work the day after that - having the bullies speculate on why I was not there the day before and then continue with their grumbling - while I smiled with the knowledge that they had 10 years tenure and were about to get rightfully fired, while I was invited to stay in a bought out contract. I continued with that job for a few years with advancing responsibilities and never regretted my early meeting with the boss at the time when I 'quit'.
Unless you were kidnapped and forced into slave labor, an bad employment contract is by your choice and by your fault to a great extent. Staying longer than you like and sacrificing your ethics and work morale just for the paycheck (or maybe for your children's sake or what not) demonstrates that you were probably not worth hiring in the first place.When I was a college student working as a waitress, I thought it was so much fun! I couldn't understand how or why the older servers had such negative attitudes or allowed the random bad customer to get under their skin. Then I realized that the difference in attitudes was because I had choices in my life. I was in college, working toward any number of better opportunities. The older servers were single moms or people with no education, struggling to pay the rent or a kid's medical bill. Not a lot of choice for them.
This is true for a lot of other, non-employment related things. It's a whole mindset and explains why many members of this board think that tinkering with their cars or going camping is fun.Unless you were kidnapped and forced into slave labor, an bad employment contract is by your choice and by your fault to a great extent. Staying longer than you like and sacrificing your ethics and work morale just for the paycheck (or maybe for your children's sake or what not) demonstrates that you were probably not worth hiring in the first place.When I was a college student working as a waitress, I thought it was so much fun! I couldn't understand how or why the older servers had such negative attitudes or allowed the random bad customer to get under their skin. Then I realized that the difference in attitudes was because I had choices in my life. I was in college, working toward any number of better opportunities. The older servers were single moms or people with no education, struggling to pay the rent or a kid's medical bill. Not a lot of choice for them.
While I'm sure you treat your employees with respect and dignity, not everyone does. And it often seems that those who supervise the people with fewer choices are sometimes complete jerks.
As I write this, I am remembering a certain Labor Day weekend where the restaurant manager tried to strong-arm me into working a single shift in the middle of the weekend, despite me giving notice weeks in advance that I wouldn't work that weekend. I was able to say "no thanks" with the knowledge that it could get me sacked. It didn't, but it did force the lady with kids to cancel her plans to cover the shifts.
Education or savings or plans = options=choice
...--it's not worth any professional consequences and it's not as important to me to prove my rightness by being mean.
I looked him in the eye and stated: You're a Dick.I've been daydreaming about doing this all week long. I said it out loud about 100 times in my car. problem is that I'm getting to my goal so much faster with this job than I would with another, so I'm going to have to suck it up a few more years.
Not an epic FU story - more like frugal habits = financial choices. I worked for the Dept of State as a Foreign Service officer and really liked my job. Although I was frequently transferred, I knew that if I didn't like either my supervisor or colleagues, either they or I would be moving on within a couple of years. Then the world changed and the number of dangerous, unaccompanied tours soared. The Dept instituted a policy of "fair-share" so that all of us would share the burden of these tours (there aren't many of us - there are fewer FSOs worldwide than full-time musicians with the U.S. Army bands). I agreed with the policy, but I was a single mother with no one with whom I could have left my daughter. Boarding school would have been provided, but all kids are different - and mine wouldn't have done well in that environment. So, having reached the age of 50 with 25 years in, I retired.
My colleagues were taken aback when I told them I didn't plan on getting a full-time job afterwards (pension at age 50 is drastically reduced so most early "retirees" have another full-time job lined up before they take the plunge). How was I going to survive? This is where my frugal habits saved me. While my colleagues had purchased nice houses in the suburbs when they started their careers, I had bought an 850 sq ft fixer-upper within a 5 minute walk to the metro and only one stop to DC. In addition to saving time (I spent about 35 minutes a day commuting on public transport - my colleagues spent on average 2 1/2 hours), it saved money - $1.40 per trip, vs over $4.00. When the real estate situation improved, I didn't upgrade. I also didn't upgrade my 2-dr Toyota despite some urging (a couple of different colleagues actually took me aside and told me that my dented, 17 year old car wasn't part of the image that the U.S. Embassy wanted to project).
When I retired, I sold my house for triple for what I paid for it, moved to the midwest closer to my relatives, and bought a house for cash. A year later I am working on my own web-based business - it doesn't make any money yet, but I can afford to do what I want. It's a great feeling.
Not an epic FU story - more like frugal habits = financial choices.
...
Yep good example, FU ability isn't just about money. It's about being aware you have options, having money being just one of the things that can provide you with an option. Last time I job searched I realized how many options I have. Having enough money to tide me over for a bit during a job search + knowing it wouldn't take that long to find something decent if I had to = 'FU money'.
Some peoples FU money limit is $0 because they know they can always get another job, even if it's a different job, which seems to be a freeing mindset that I'm envious of.
My “FU” story really isn’t much of one, and it hasn’t been completed yet. I accepted a position with a different company—more money, for the most part better benefits, and hopefully a better situation in terms of the work environment. I’m only giving a week of notice because I need to be employed on the 1st of the year—I get 4 extra days of vacation paid out, and the 401k match. I’m sorely tempted to leave sooner, or take a sick day or two in that week, but I don’t want to burn any bridges. I cannot wait to get out of here though, and if they start treating me poorly during that last week, I’ll just walk out. I’ll have everything out of my desk by then, so I hope that they just tell me to leave that day (they’d have to pay me through the date I give).
FU money isn't so you can treat your employer poorly, it's so you don't have to put up with your employer treating YOU poorly. Before getting into personal finance I was in debt and broke feeling stuck working for a shitty company and a shitty boss.
so I hope that they just tell me to leave that day (they’d have to pay me through the date I give).
My “FU” story really isn’t much of one, and it hasn’t been completed yet. I accepted a position with a different company—more money, for the most part better benefits, and hopefully a better situation in terms of the work environment. I’m only giving a week of notice because I need to be employed on the 1st of the year—I get 4 extra days of vacation paid out, and the 401k match. I’m sorely tempted to leave sooner, or take a sick day or two in that week, but I don’t want to burn any bridges. I cannot wait to get out of here though, and if they start treating me poorly during that last week, I’ll just walk out. I’ll have everything out of my desk by then, so I hope that they just tell me to leave that day (they’d have to pay me through the date I give).
If you know now, why not give notice now? That'd make 2 weeks notice (which is fairly standard) rather than 1 and help to not burn bridges as you say you don't wish to do?
so I hope that they just tell me to leave that day (they’d have to pay me through the date I give).
I don't think so. Had a coworker give two weeks notice before Christmas. You had to work the first day of the next year to get profit sharing. He said he was quitting Jan 2. Got a certified letter stating" Thanks for letting us know you want to quit. Your last day is Dec 23". Cost him $17K.
If I give 2 weeks now, they could release me on December 30th and I'd be out my 401k match and 4 more days of accrued vacation. That amounts to a little more than I'd like to kiss goodbye; especially since I don't expect to ever come back here (although wouldn't be against it). I have to look out for myself first.
But for that point, it is in our HR manual that if we resign and they have us leave earlier, they are to pay us for either 2 weeks or through the date we give, whichever is less.so I hope that they just tell me to leave that day (they’d have to pay me through the date I give).I don't think so. Had a coworker give two weeks notice before Christmas. You had to work the first day of the next year to get profit sharing. He said he was quitting Jan 2. Got a certified letter stating" Thanks for letting us know you want to quit. Your last day is Dec 23". Cost him $17K.
If I give 2 weeks now, they could release me on December 30th and I'd be out my 401k match and 4 more days of accrued vacation. That amounts to a little more than I'd like to kiss goodbye; especially since I don't expect to ever come back here (although wouldn't be against it). I have to look out for myself first.
It's very odd that you would get 4 days accrued based on just one more week of work. Generally one accrues vacation at a steady rate throughout the year.
In my industry people talk, so giving only a week of notice would be a CLM overall, not just if you wanted to go back to the original company. Really think this through.But for that point, it is in our HR manual that if we resign and they have us leave earlier, they are to pay us for either 2 weeks or through the date we give, whichever is less.so I hope that they just tell me to leave that day (they’d have to pay me through the date I give).I don't think so. Had a coworker give two weeks notice before Christmas. You had to work the first day of the next year to get profit sharing. He said he was quitting Jan 2. Got a certified letter stating" Thanks for letting us know you want to quit. Your last day is Dec 23". Cost him $17K.
In almost every region you need to be paid out the two weeks (or whatever your minimum notice is), but they have absolutely no reason to pay you out a bonus after you have said you are leaving, even if it was previously established you'd be getting one. Salary and bonus/profit sharing are two very separate things. Make sure any bonus you're expecting is dropped into your account before you give notice.
If I give 2 weeks now, they could release me on December 30th and I'd be out my 401k match and 4 more days of accrued vacation. That amounts to a little more than I'd like to kiss goodbye; especially since I don't expect to ever come back here (although wouldn't be against it). I have to look out for myself first.
It's very odd that you would get 4 days accrued based on just one more week of work. Generally one accrues vacation at a steady rate throughout the year.
In my industry people talk, so giving only a week of notice would be a CLM overall, not just if you wanted to go back to the original company. Really think this through.But for that point, it is in our HR manual that if we resign and they have us leave earlier, they are to pay us for either 2 weeks or through the date we give, whichever is less.so I hope that they just tell me to leave that day (they’d have to pay me through the date I give).I don't think so. Had a coworker give two weeks notice before Christmas. You had to work the first day of the next year to get profit sharing. He said he was quitting Jan 2. Got a certified letter stating" Thanks for letting us know you want to quit. Your last day is Dec 23". Cost him $17K.
QuoteShe demanded two weeks notice, which still included me missing class to come to work. I said, nope! I could not believe that I didn't get fired for mouthing off to her.
Wow, she was a moron. I think my response to that would have been "Okay, you drive a hard bargain, M'am, so even though I just quit, my last day will actually be two weeks from today instead of tonight. And you are right: I will be here on Tuesdays as well." Then I would just have never come back.
I find myself explaining the concept of "Nobody HAS TO do ANYTHING when it comes to a job" to people on a regular basis. We've had more than one person just stop showing up, or email a resignation letter while they are on vacation (with the last day of work conveniently falling on a future date that they are still on vacation), or agree to take on a big project and then turn around and put an "I resign effective immediately" letter under the boss's door after hours, yet somehow the illusion that people have to keep coming into the office until they are given permission to leave persists.
Dear Navy SEAL,
I am a happily married man with a warm and loving wife who is also my best friend. We've been together for 17 years and couldn't be happier. But lately she says she wants separate beds. I'm reeling! We're barely in our 40s, and in my mind separate sleeping is for seniors. Am I making too much of this? Help!
—Anxious In Andersonville
While larger rounds incapacitate a target more reliably than the smaller 5.56, they are also much heavier to hump over the mountains. Being able to lay down a more ferocious volume of fire can be well worth the decrease in stopping power, especially when you have encountered a frisky opponent. Utilize your SAW gunner to suppress incoming fire, while your assault team maneuvers to better overrun the enemy position. If bounding proves difficult, remember, 5.56 can penetrate cover like Swiss cheese, although you will still be prudent to continuously engage targets until all teams have swept the objective area.
Also, utilizing air and artillery support can shorten the effort, along with conserving your ammo. Definitely remember to sweep the kill zone afterward to eliminate survivors or take captives, mission depending. Once area is swept and the reports sent up, hopefully you can CM.
Dear Navy SEAL,
I am a happily married man with a warm and loving wife who is also my best friend. We've been together for 17 years and couldn't be happier. But lately she says she wants separate beds. I'm reeling! We're barely in our 40s, and in my mind separate sleeping is for seniors. Am I making too much of this? Help!
—Anxious In Andersonville
While larger rounds incapacitate a target more reliably than the smaller 5.56, they are also much heavier to hump over the mountains. Being able to lay down a more ferocious volume of fire can be well worth the decrease in stopping power, especially when you have encountered a frisky opponent. Utilize your SAW gunner to suppress incoming fire, while your assault team maneuvers to better overrun the enemy position. If bounding proves difficult, remember, 5.56 can penetrate cover like Swiss cheese, although you will still be prudent to continuously engage targets until all teams have swept the objective area.
Also, utilizing air and artillery support can shorten the effort, along with conserving your ammo. Definitely remember to sweep the kill zone afterward to eliminate survivors or take captives, mission depending. Once area is swept and the reports sent up, hopefully you can CM.
Or maybe you snore/steal blankets/thrash around/something else equally annoying in your sleep and she's tired of it.
Dear Navy SEAL,
I am a happily married man with a warm and loving wife who is also my best friend. We've been together for 17 years and couldn't be happier. But lately she says she wants separate beds. I'm reeling! We're barely in our 40s, and in my mind separate sleeping is for seniors. Am I making too much of this? Help!
—Anxious In Andersonville
While larger rounds incapacitate a target more reliably than the smaller 5.56, they are also much heavier to hump over the mountains. Being able to lay down a more ferocious volume of fire can be well worth the decrease in stopping power, especially when you have encountered a frisky opponent. Utilize your SAW gunner to suppress incoming fire, while your assault team maneuvers to better overrun the enemy position. If bounding proves difficult, remember, 5.56 can penetrate cover like Swiss cheese, although you will still be prudent to continuously engage targets until all teams have swept the objective area.
Also, utilizing air and artillery support can shorten the effort, along with conserving your ammo. Definitely remember to sweep the kill zone afterward to eliminate survivors or take captives, mission depending. Once area is swept and the reports sent up, hopefully you can CM.
Or maybe you snore/steal blankets/thrash around/something else equally annoying in your sleep and she's tired of it.
I've been pitching the separate beds idea for awhile but my wife won't go for it. It's nice to have that special someone there...but it definitely lowers my quality of sleep. A nice comfortable bed to myself is so much better, and I sleep so much better when I am alone.
Dear Navy SEAL,
I am a happily married man with a warm and loving wife who is also my best friend. We've been together for 17 years and couldn't be happier. But lately she says she wants separate beds. I'm reeling! We're barely in our 40s, and in my mind separate sleeping is for seniors. Am I making too much of this? Help!
—Anxious In Andersonville
While larger rounds incapacitate a target more reliably than the smaller 5.56, they are also much heavier to hump over the mountains. Being able to lay down a more ferocious volume of fire can be well worth the decrease in stopping power, especially when you have encountered a frisky opponent. Utilize your SAW gunner to suppress incoming fire, while your assault team maneuvers to better overrun the enemy position. If bounding proves difficult, remember, 5.56 can penetrate cover like Swiss cheese, although you will still be prudent to continuously engage targets until all teams have swept the objective area.
Also, utilizing air and artillery support can shorten the effort, along with conserving your ammo. Definitely remember to sweep the kill zone afterward to eliminate survivors or take captives, mission depending. Once area is swept and the reports sent up, hopefully you can CM.
Or maybe you snore/steal blankets/thrash around/something else equally annoying in your sleep and she's tired of it.
I've been pitching the separate beds idea for awhile but my wife won't go for it. It's nice to have that special someone there...but it definitely lowers my quality of sleep. A nice comfortable bed to myself is so much better, and I sleep so much better when I am alone.
Have you tried separate blankets? It helps a lot.
If I give 2 weeks now, they could release me on December 30th and I'd be out my 401k match and 4 more days of accrued vacation. That amounts to a little more than I'd like to kiss goodbye; especially since I don't expect to ever come back here (although wouldn't be against it). I have to look out for myself first.
It's very odd that you would get 4 days accrued based on just one more week of work. Generally one accrues vacation at a steady rate throughout the year.
If I give 2 weeks now, they could release me on December 30th and I'd be out my 401k match and 4 more days of accrued vacation. That amounts to a little more than I'd like to kiss goodbye; especially since I don't expect to ever come back here (although wouldn't be against it). I have to look out for myself first.
It's very odd that you would get 4 days accrued based on just one more week of work. Generally one accrues vacation at a steady rate throughout the year.
In my industry, vacation is accrued quarterly. Sounds like the same policy.
Ah, but vacation is different from Floating Holidays. That's what I get. First of the year, 4 days...the remaining 15 days get accrued over the year.
Ah, but vacation is different from Floating Holidays. That's what I get. First of the year, 4 days...the remaining 15 days get accrued over the year.
And they pay you out for floating holidays? I thought that was the point of companies doing floating holidays, that they weren't bound by vacation day rules. (I've never worked at a place that had floating holidays)
Every place I've had floating holidays they are just like vacation days. They are paid, and can be scheduled whenever. And are bought back the same way when you quit.Ah, but vacation is different from Floating Holidays. That's what I get. First of the year, 4 days...the remaining 15 days get accrued over the year.
And they pay you out for floating holidays? I thought that was the point of companies doing floating holidays, that they weren't bound by vacation day rules. (I've never worked at a place that had floating holidays)
At my company the floating holidays are just arbitrary days during the year that the company has designated a day off that wouldn't otherwise be considered a holiday. This is usually used to give us a longer weekend when a normal single day holiday lands on a Tuesday or Thursday. For example, we always get January 1st off, but for 2015 we are also getting a floating holiday on January 2nd so that we don't have to come in on just one day before the weekend.
I'll reiterate the story of a poster from Early-Retirement.org about 8-10 years ago.
He'd been pursuing financial independence for years, and was putting the finishing touches on his plan. He'd tried to discuss FI with his co-workers years before but they weren't receptive and he'd since kept it all a secret. I don't think he had a pension but he'd saved diligently in his company 401(k) and his IRA and he had everything ready to go. He'd already contributed to the stereotypical thread on "How much notice should I give when I quit my job?" and had concluded that he only owed his employer the absolute minimum required by the HR rules. He'd already prepped his turnover checklist and his training handbook, although he wasn't particularly worried about a contact relief. He'd even figured out how best to replicate his company-issued laptop (on the cheap) so that he'd start ER with familiar computer gear.
Just a few days before he was ready to give notice, the company had a round of "surprise" layoffs. (Surprise to most of the employees, not so surprising to most of management.) He was met at the door by an HR rep, escorted to his boss' office, given the "bad" news, and then escorted to clean out his desk. He was given a generous severance package and even told that he could keep his company-issued laptop. He was outta there before lunch.
He said the hardest part of the layoff was keeping a straight face and taking it all seriously. Inside, of course, he was doing the engineer's happy dance...
I'm not sure if this counts or not...
I'm not sure if this counts or not...
Not so much an FU story but a good reminder that sometimes being a good person and a good employee can be just as worthwhile in getting what you want at work :-)
.
Yup. I don't have something else lined up right now, but I am confident I could find something. I was talking to a coworker about a two week vacation I have planned in May, and I mentioned if it doesn't get approved I'll just go find another job. Her jaw dropped. :PYep good example, FU ability isn't just about money. It's about being aware you have options, having money being just one of the things that can provide you with an option. Last time I job searched I realized how many options I have. Having enough money to tide me over for a bit during a job search + knowing it wouldn't take that long to find something decent if I had to = 'FU money'.
Some peoples FU money limit is $0 because they know they can always get another job, even if it's a different job, which seems to be a freeing mindset that I'm envious of.
I agree with this assessment. I'm a big fan of "keep looking for better jobs constantly. There will eventually be something much better, you just have to be ready when it comes." I moved jobs a lot. I'd usually stick around for a year but because I had been looking for the whole year I had a very good idea of who was hiring and what I was worth. Having another job is freeing in the same way FU money is because it allows you to say "nope, you haven't been treating me the way I want to be treated, so I'm leaving."
When I found my current job (which I'm REALLY happy with) and gave notice at the old one, I was able to say: "you dropped the Employee Stock Purchase Plan this year which is worth over $10k per year to me. Without a big salary increase, you aren't that competitive anymore. Oh and the new company lets me work from home full time." Probably a slightly different feeling than true FU money, but having another job lined up gives you a lot of the same freedom.
This thread is the ultimate illustration of why Financial Independence is so crucial to living a fulfilling and happy life!
Once you have some financial strength, you never have to let yourself be driven to the point where you feel you must say "FU!".
You don't have to take months of abuse before you quit in exasperation..... You don't have to do anything you feel is unethical...... You never have to betray your own soul by staying in a position that is unhealthy and stressful...
Being financially independent means you go to work voluntarily, conduct yourself with dignity, show compassion to your co-workers and subordinates, and negotiate from a position of strength.
I don't think you don't need a massive stache built up to do this....Just a reasonable emergency fund, confidence in your own worth, and marketable skills. Dual incomes, low expenses and a little bravery goes a long way too.
"please find attached a copy of MY engineering degree for your reference. If you need further explanation, please note the PE initials following my name. They roughly translate to I am the expert!"
Until the moment I have FU money, I have to bite my tongue and play the politics to keep building up my FU fund. Or wait two years when I'm the engineering manager and then he'll be thinking twice about what he says.
I don't have an FU story but after this past week, I want to get to that point more than ever.
I work as an engineer and about six months ago we hired another "engineer". I use the quotes because he does not have an engineering degree, just tons of experience from being out in the field. This past week we had a piece of equipment that had failed in the field and has been replaced three time prior by an exact copy but new piece of equipment each time. The "engineer" had called for it to be replaced again and I told the field guys to leave it until someone proves the equipment is truly defective, and not actually miscoordinating. The "engineer" sent me an email and included the guys in my group as well. He asked me to explain to him why I superseded his judgement. Side note, he and I are the same level and pay but he is twice my age. With FU money, I would be able to respond back with "please find attached a copy of MY engineering degree for your reference. If you need further explanation, please note the PE initials following my name. They roughly translate to I am the expert!"
Until the moment I have FU money, I have to bite my tongue and play the politics to keep building up my FU fund. Or wait two years when I'm the engineering manager and then he'll be thinking twice about what he says.
The "engineer" sent me an email and included the guys in my group as well. He asked me to explain to him why I superseded his judgement. Side note, he and I are the same level and pay but he is twice my age. With FU money, I would be able to respond back with "please find attached a copy of MY engineering degree for your reference. If you need further explanation, please note the PE initials following my name. They roughly translate to I am the expert!"
Until the moment I have FU money, I have to bite my tongue and play the politics to keep building up my FU fund. Or wait two years when I'm the engineering manager and then he'll be thinking twice about what he says.
The "engineer" sent me an email and included the guys in my group as well. He asked me to explain to him why I superseded his judgement. Side note, he and I are the same level and pay but he is twice my age. With FU money, I would be able to respond back with "please find attached a copy of MY engineering degree for your reference. If you need further explanation, please note the PE initials following my name. They roughly translate to I am the expert!"
Until the moment I have FU money, I have to bite my tongue and play the politics to keep building up my FU fund. Or wait two years when I'm the engineering manager and then he'll be thinking twice about what he says.
Opinions are like assholes (eveyone has one) but egos are poison. Degrees and book smarts don't necessarily make you the expert. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the times where engineers/architects have been not just wrong but TOTALLY wrong in my experience. I try not to do hang people out to dry, but if they play the "I am the expert/boss!" card, I'll let them choke on their piece of paper instead of politely informing them of their mistake before it snowballs.
However, I'm just a lowly tradesman without a piece of paper informing others how smart I am.
Congrats on building up the FU money, but make sure you're doing it for the right reasons.
I don't have an FU story but after this past week, I want to get to that point more than ever.
I work as an engineer and about six months ago we hired another "engineer". I use the quotes because he does not have an engineering degree, just tons of experience from being out in the field. This past week we had a piece of equipment that had failed in the field and has been replaced three time prior by an exact copy but new piece of equipment each time. The "engineer" had called for it to be replaced again and I told the field guys to leave it until someone proves the equipment is truly defective, and not actually miscoordinating. The "engineer" sent me an email and included the guys in my group as well. He asked me to explain to him why I superseded his judgement. Side note, he and I are the same level and pay but he is twice my age. With FU money, I would be able to respond back with "please find attached a copy of MY engineering degree for your reference. If you need further explanation, please note the PE initials following my name. They roughly translate to I am the expert!"
Until the moment I have FU money, I have to bite my tongue and play the politics to keep building up my FU fund. Or wait two years when I'm the engineering manager and then he'll be thinking twice about what he says.
I don't have an FU story but after this past week, I want to get to that point more than ever.
I work as an engineer and about six months ago we hired another "engineer". I use the quotes because he does not have an engineering degree, just tons of experience from being out in the field. This past week we had a piece of equipment that had failed in the field and has been replaced three time prior by an exact copy but new piece of equipment each time. The "engineer" had called for it to be replaced again and I told the field guys to leave it until someone proves the equipment is truly defective, and not actually miscoordinating. The "engineer" sent me an email and included the guys in my group as well. He asked me to explain to him why I superseded his judgement. Side note, he and I are the same level and pay but he is twice my age. With FU money, I would be able to respond back with "please find attached a copy of MY engineering degree for your reference. If you need further explanation, please note the PE initials following my name. They roughly translate to I am the expert!"
Until the moment I have FU money, I have to bite my tongue and play the politics to keep building up my FU fund. Or wait two years when I'm the engineering manager and then he'll be thinking twice about what he says.
long story short I quit on a whim.
Not an epic FU story - more like frugal habits = financial choices. I worked for the Dept of State as a Foreign Service officer and really liked my job. Although I was frequently transferred, I knew that if I didn't like either my supervisor or colleagues, either they or I would be moving on within a couple of years. Then the world changed and the number of dangerous, unaccompanied tours soared. The Dept instituted a policy of "fair-share" so that all of us would share the burden of these tours (there aren't many of us - there are fewer FSOs worldwide than full-time musicians with the U.S. Army bands). I agreed with the policy, but I was a single mother with no one with whom I could have left my daughter. Boarding school would have been provided, but all kids are different - and mine wouldn't have done well in that environment. So, having reached the age of 50 with 25 years in, I retired.This is great. I have a friend who I'm pretty sure is a military version of an FSO (not sure if they have the same title?) But he has had way too many unaccompanied tours of late, so he's getting out. And very soon.
My colleagues were taken aback when I told them I didn't plan on getting a full-time job afterwards (pension at age 50 is drastically reduced so most early "retirees" have another full-time job lined up before they take the plunge). How was I going to survive? This is where my frugal habits saved me. While my colleagues had purchased nice houses in the suburbs when they started their careers, I had bought an 850 sq ft fixer-upper within a 5 minute walk to the metro and only one stop to DC. In addition to saving time (I spent about 35 minutes a day commuting on public transport - my colleagues spent on average 2 1/2 hours), it saved money - $1.40 per trip, vs over $4.00. When the real estate situation improved, I didn't upgrade. I also didn't upgrade my 2-dr Toyota despite some urging (a couple of different colleagues actually took me aside and told me that my dented, 17 year old car wasn't part of the image that the U.S. Embassy wanted to project).
When I retired, I sold my house for triple for what I paid for it, moved to the midwest closer to my relatives, and bought a house for cash. A year later I am working on my own web-based business - it doesn't make any money yet, but I can afford to do what I want. It's a great feeling.
I don't have an FU story but after this past week, I want to get to that point more than ever.
I work as an engineer and about six months ago we hired another "engineer". I use the quotes because he does not have an engineering degree, just tons of experience from being out in the field. This past week we had a piece of equipment that had failed in the field and has been replaced three time prior by an exact copy but new piece of equipment each time. The "engineer" had called for it to be replaced again and I told the field guys to leave it until someone proves the equipment is truly defective, and not actually miscoordinating. The "engineer" sent me an email and included the guys in my group as well. He asked me to explain to him why I superseded his judgement. Side note, he and I are the same level and pay but he is twice my age. With FU money, I would be able to respond back with "please find attached a copy of MY engineering degree for your reference. If you need further explanation, please note the PE initials following my name. They roughly translate to I am the expert!"
Until the moment I have FU money, I have to bite my tongue and play the politics to keep building up my FU fund. Or wait two years when I'm the engineering manager and then he'll be thinking twice about what he says.
he does not have an engineering degree, just tons of experience from being out in the field
I have a degree and I also manage a team. Many managers (most? almost all?) would tend to value tons of field experience over a degree. I certainly do when I need to hire. It's also nice to have a mix: older experienced folks and younger (but talented and hungry) folks. The older guys tend to bring a lot of experience and maturity to the team, and the younger guys bring a lot of creativity to the team. Years and years of experience leads to good judgement, but judgement also can tend to limit creativity, since you already have pretty defined notions about what works and what doesn't.
Or wait two years when I'm the engineering manager and then he'll be thinking twice about what he says.
I hope, for your sake, that if you become a manager that you lose this attitude or you likely won't be a manager for long. You'll either be moved out of the position, an unhealthy amount of your team will quit, or some combination of the two will occur. Another poster said it well: as manager you hire good guys to work for you and then get the heck out of their way, supporting them as best they need to get the job done. Instilling fear in them is never part of the equation.
Mike
Not an epic FU story - more like frugal habits = financial choices. I worked for the Dept of State as a Foreign Service officer and really liked my job. Although I was frequently transferred, I knew that if I didn't like either my supervisor or colleagues, either they or I would be moving on within a couple of years. Then the world changed and the number of dangerous, unaccompanied tours soared. The Dept instituted a policy of "fair-share" so that all of us would share the burden of these tours (there aren't many of us - there are fewer FSOs worldwide than full-time musicians with the U.S. Army bands). I agreed with the policy, but I was a single mother with no one with whom I could have left my daughter. Boarding school would have been provided, but all kids are different - and mine wouldn't have done well in that environment. So, having reached the age of 50 with 25 years in, I retired.This is great. I have a friend who I'm pretty sure is a military version of an FSO (not sure if they have the same title?) But he has had way too many unaccompanied tours of late, so he's getting out. And very soon.
My colleagues were taken aback when I told them I didn't plan on getting a full-time job afterwards (pension at age 50 is drastically reduced so most early "retirees" have another full-time job lined up before they take the plunge). How was I going to survive? This is where my frugal habits saved me. While my colleagues had purchased nice houses in the suburbs when they started their careers, I had bought an 850 sq ft fixer-upper within a 5 minute walk to the metro and only one stop to DC. In addition to saving time (I spent about 35 minutes a day commuting on public transport - my colleagues spent on average 2 1/2 hours), it saved money - $1.40 per trip, vs over $4.00. When the real estate situation improved, I didn't upgrade. I also didn't upgrade my 2-dr Toyota despite some urging (a couple of different colleagues actually took me aside and told me that my dented, 17 year old car wasn't part of the image that the U.S. Embassy wanted to project).
When I retired, I sold my house for triple for what I paid for it, moved to the midwest closer to my relatives, and bought a house for cash. A year later I am working on my own web-based business - it doesn't make any money yet, but I can afford to do what I want. It's a great feeling.
long story short I quit on a whim.
Don't quit on a "whim". Even if something pisses you off at work don't quit rite away just say you don't feel well and leave work rite then and sleep on your decision for a few days to make sure it's what you really want. I don't see ANY downfalls from having FU $$$$$ if you least do that.
all of the comments to my little tale are beyond amusing. To finish the story, I took the high road and informed our manager about the email. He offered to fire the guy for insubordination. I told the manager to hold off on firing the guy. I'll give him the opportunity to apologize and make things right, but I already have his replacement picked out. When it comes down to it, this is a business. I wouldn't be in the position I'm in unless I was that good. As for my management style, why don't you all Google "Jack Welch". I don't need compassion or sympathy to lead. I need results and a bottom-line, because the second I forget about that then I'll be looking for job and so will everyone else when the company fails. We pursue FIRE to have options ten to twenty years before the average worker. Not because we hate our jobs. Why would anyone punish themselves with a job they hated for ten to fifteen years with their only goal being retirement. Go out and do something with your lives. Make a difference. I know I get to make a difference every day when I go into work.
To make widely acquisitions and comment on a post with little background information is just asine. you need to learn to ask questions and collect information before adding your two cents. This thread was set up to share stories, not to collect unsolicited comments. As Mark Twain said "better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than to speak and prove them right."
I think you should follow Twain's advice :)
all of the comments to my little tale are beyond amusing. To finish the story, I took the high road and informed our manager about the email. He offered to fire the guy for insubordination. I told the manager to hold off on firing the guy. I'll give him the opportunity to apologize and make things right, but I already have his replacement picked out. When it comes down to it, this is a business. I wouldn't be in the position I'm in unless I was that good. As for my management style, why don't you all Google "Jack Welch". I don't need compassion or sympathy to lead. I need results and a bottom-line, because the second I forget about that then I'll be looking for job and so will everyone else when the company fails. We pursue FIRE to have options ten to twenty years before the average worker. Not because we hate our jobs. Why would anyone punish themselves with a job they hated for ten to fifteen years with their only goal being retirement. Go out and do something with your lives. Make a difference. I know I get to make a difference every day when I go into work.
To make widely acquisitions and comment on a post with little background information is just asine. you need to learn to ask questions and collect information before adding your two cents. This thread was set up to share stories, not to collect unsolicited comments. As Mark Twain said "better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than to speak and prove them right."
I don't need compassion or sympathy to lead.
I don't need compassion or sympathy to lead.
Where did you get this idea? Did someone teach this to you, or did you conclude it on your own?
As for my management style, why don't you all Google "Jack Welch". I don't need compassion or sympathy to lead. I need results and a bottom-line, because the second I forget about that then I'll be looking for job and so will everyone else when the company fails. We pursue FIRE to have options ten to twenty years before the average worker. Not because we hate our jobs. Why would anyone punish themselves with a job they hated for ten to fifteen years with their only goal being retirement. Go out and do something with your lives. Make a difference. I know I get to make a difference every day when I go into work.
To make widely acquisitions and comment on a post with little background information is just asine. you need to learn to ask questions and collect information before adding your two cents. This thread was set up to share stories, not to collect unsolicited comments. As Mark Twain said "better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than to speak and prove them right."
I don't have an FU story but after this past week, I want to get to that point more than ever.
I work as an engineer and about six months ago we hired another "engineer". I use the quotes because he does not have an engineering degree, just tons of experience from being out in the field. This past week we had a piece of equipment that had failed in the field and has been replaced three time prior by an exact copy but new piece of equipment each time. The "engineer" had called for it to be replaced again and I told the field guys to leave it until someone proves the equipment is truly defective, and not actually miscoordinating. The "engineer" sent me an email and included the guys in my group as well. He asked me to explain to him why I superseded his judgement. Side note, he and I are the same level and pay but he is twice my age. With FU money, I would be able to respond back with "please find attached a copy of MY engineering degree for your reference. If you need further explanation, please note the PE initials following my name. They roughly translate to I am the expert!"
Until the moment I have FU money, I have to bite my tongue and play the politics to keep building up my FU fund. Or wait two years when I'm the engineering manager and then he'll be thinking twice about what he says.
Although there has been an implication along these lines in previous posts: I won't say people like you suck. I will say that people who think this way suck, so hopefully you fix how you think. Discounting "tons of experience from being out in the field" when you are some kid out of college is ridiculous. You can point to the obvious Gates-type example, but even outside of that kind of obvious example, it is still ridiculous.
You need to do your job, nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with calling for something to be done differently from the guy with lots of experience, but appealing to authority (in this case, the authority of a piece of paper) is gross.
I know plenty of grizzled paralegals who know more about the law than freshly-minted lawyers.
all of the comments to my little tale are beyond amusing. To finish the story, I took the high road and informed our manager about the email. He offered to fire the guy for insubordination. I told the manager to hold off on firing the guy. I'll give him the opportunity to apologize and make things right, but I already have his replacement picked out. When it comes down to it, this is a business. I wouldn't be in the position I'm in unless I was that good. As for my management style, why don't you all Google "Jack Welch". I don't need compassion or sympathy to lead. I need results and a bottom-line, because the second I forget about that then I'll be looking for job and so will everyone else when the company fails. We pursue FIRE to have options ten to twenty years before the average worker. Not because we hate our jobs. Why would anyone punish themselves with a job they hated for ten to fifteen years with their only goal being retirement. Go out and do something with your lives. Make a difference. I know I get to make a difference every day when I go into work.
To make widely acquisitions and comment on a post with little background information is just asine. you need to learn to ask questions and collect information before adding your two cents. This thread was set up to share stories, not to collect unsolicited comments. As Mark Twain said "better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than to speak and prove them right."
I work as an independent contractor and am regularly on call for emergency based response contracts that include traveling across the country as a prerequisite. Every job requires travel.Next year ask for 90-10.
I am young, married but with no mortgage (very low rent), no children, no pets, very little debt. My wife works with me often as my assistant, thus saving/earning us more money.
Because we have very little debt to service we can afford to decide which jobs to take, and when to take time off.
Until recently I have specifically contracted to a single company for the entirety of my business. Our relationship has been very beneficial to each of us and there has been no reason to diversify. However, due to circumstances out of my control, I have recently had to subcontract through another company (an affiliate and acquaintance in the industry).
When the time came to make the switch, I began to negotiate the contract rates with the new company. Historically I have received 90% of the contract award while the company I originally contracted with kept 10% as a finders fee. 10% is very low, but I am 95% autonomous, thus they make money for simply giving me the contract. I manage all aspects of the job, freeing capacity for the company to pursue more business.
When making the switch I offered to let the new company keep 15% of the award rate. They were flabbergasted. NO WAY. They would offer a minimum of 30%, they have overhead, upkeep, etc!
I pointed out that what while they may have overhead and upkeep with their other contractors, I bring autonomy to the table, thus greatly reducing all of their overhead. I require no maintenance, am completely self sufficient, AND self funded. Thus they have no upfront cost for contract acquisition.
In lieu of the facts, they unhappily offered a 20/80 split, which I accepted, but only for the FIRST contract.
The next contract recently came up and I was contacted by the new company to take the job. They were eager to capitalize on my capacity as they previously had not had a contractor available, and thus could not to accept these lucrative contracts. I agreed under the condition that the new contract award split would be 15/85. Having seen my previous performance, they agreed. They had no choice. Take it or leave it.
I'm not even part way close to FI, but have a 12mo emergency fund, thus had the option to take the "FU" position. I did, and it worked.
I don't have an FU story but after this past week, I want to get to that point more than ever.
I work as an engineer and about six months ago we hired another "engineer". I use the quotes because he does not have an engineering degree, just tons of experience from being out in the field. This past week we had a piece of equipment that had failed in the field and has been replaced three time prior by an exact copy but new piece of equipment each time. The "engineer" had called for it to be replaced again and I told the field guys to leave it until someone proves the equipment is truly defective, and not actually miscoordinating. The "engineer" sent me an email and included the guys in my group as well. He asked me to explain to him why I superseded his judgement. Side note, he and I are the same level and pay but he is twice my age. With FU money, I would be able to respond back with "please find attached a copy of MY engineering degree for your reference. If you need further explanation, please note the PE initials following my name. They roughly translate to I am the expert!"
Until the moment I have FU money, I have to bite my tongue and play the politics to keep building up my FU fund. Or wait two years when I'm the engineering manager and then he'll be thinking twice about what he says.
Although there has been an implication along these lines in previous posts: I won't say people like you suck. I will say that people who think this way suck, so hopefully you fix how you think. Discounting "tons of experience from being out in the field" when you are some kid out of college is ridiculous. You can point to the obvious Gates-type example, but even outside of that kind of obvious example, it is still ridiculous.
You need to do your job, nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with calling for something to be done differently from the guy with lots of experience, but appealing to authority (in this case, the authority of a piece of paper) is gross.
I know plenty of grizzled paralegals who know more about the law than freshly-minted lawyers.
I'm not sure why the poster feels the need to show up a seasoned veteran with real life experience. It's a total pr!ck move to try and create conflict when there is no need for some. I can only assume that due to his age he has an inferiority complex or something which is unusual for engineers.
At best this appears to be someone being a d!ck just for the sake of being a d!ck. The older dude is probably planning his own FU story for when this kid becomes the "boss".
long story short I quit on a whim.
Don't quit on a "whim". Even if something pisses you off at work don't quit rite away just say you don't feel well and leave work rite then and sleep on your decision for a few days to make sure it's what you really want. I don't see ANY downfalls from having FU $$$$$ if you least do that.
all of the comments to my little tale are beyond amusing. To finish the story, I took the high road and informed our manager about the email. He offered to fire the guy for insubordination. I told the manager to hold off on firing the guy. I'll give him the opportunity to apologize and make things right, but I already have his replacement picked out. When it comes down to it, this is a business. I wouldn't be in the position I'm in unless I was that good. As for my management style, why don't you all Google "Jack Welch". I don't need compassion or sympathy to lead. I need results and a bottom-line, because the second I forget about that then I'll be looking for job and so will everyone else when the company fails. We pursue FIRE to have options ten to twenty years before the average worker. Not because we hate our jobs. Why would anyone punish themselves with a job they hated for ten to fifteen years with their only goal being retirement. Go out and do something with your lives. Make a difference. I know I get to make a difference every day when I go into work.
To make widely acquisitions and comment on a post with little background information is just asine. you need to learn to ask questions and collect information before adding your two cents. This thread was set up to share stories, not to collect unsolicited comments. As Mark Twain said "better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than to speak and prove them right."
The "engineer" sent me an email and included the guys in my group as well. He asked me to explain to him why I superseded his judgement. Side note, he and I are the same level and pay but he is twice my age. With FU money, I would be able to respond back with "please find attached a copy of MY engineering degree for your reference. If you need further explanation, please note the PE initials following my name. They roughly translate to I am the expert!"
The "engineer" sent me an email and included the guys in my group as well. He asked me to explain to him why I superseded his judgement. Side note, he and I are the same level and pay but he is twice my age. With FU money, I would be able to respond back with "please find attached a copy of MY engineering degree for your reference. If you need further explanation, please note the PE initials following my name. They roughly translate to I am the expert!"
Well ain't you a dick and a half. I mean, maybe I shouldn't argue with you, since I don't have the "PE" initials following my name, since I'm just an electrical engineer who doesn't need the government to tell me that I can design things.
Winning an argument by appeal to authority - even if that authority is you (though it's really not, it's the certifying agency granting you license to say you're a PE) - is a maneuver that only works on small children. "I'm your parent and you will do what I say, because I know best." Even that doesn't work very well.
Maybe next time you should have a discussion with this person who is your peer, though arguably knows a hell of a lot more than you do, on the proper steps to take. When my boss doesn't know about something I'm doing, he doesn't come running in to tell me my decision is wrong, he asks me to tell him my decision and why I made it. We will come to an agreement on whether something is the right way to go, because we're on the same page; he knows more than I do in general, but I know more about the specific task on which I'm currently working.
Try to remember that, lest you become the sort of piece of shit boss people leave the company from. "I don't need compassion to lead." No, you don't. You can crack the whip all you like. Just remember that if you're cracking the whip, you damn well better be paying out the nose to make it worthwhile for anyone to stay. I can quit tomorrow and have a job as soon as I come back from a nice vacation. I wouldn't give two thoughts before leaving your employ.
all of the comments to my little tale are beyond amusing. To finish the story, I took the high road and informed our manager about the email. He offered to fire the guy for insubordination. I told the manager to hold off on firing the guy. I'll give him the opportunity to apologize and make things right, but I already have his replacement picked out. When it comes down to it, this is a business. I wouldn't be in the position I'm in unless I was that good. As for my management style, why don't you all Google "Jack Welch". I don't need compassion or sympathy to lead. I need results and a bottom-line, because the second I forget about that then I'll be looking for job and so will everyone else when the company fails. We pursue FIRE to have options ten to twenty years before the average worker. Not because we hate our jobs. Why would anyone punish themselves with a job they hated for ten to fifteen years with their only goal being retirement. Go out and do something with your lives. Make a difference. I know I get to make a difference every day when I go into work.I found it funny that when I googled Jack Welch, this image came up:
To make widely acquisitions and comment on a post with little background information is just asine. you need to learn to ask questions and collect information before adding your two cents. This thread was set up to share stories, not to collect unsolicited comments. As Mark Twain said "better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than to speak and prove them right."
all of the comments to my little tale are beyond amusing. To finish the story, I took the high road and informed our manager about the email. He offered to fire the guy for insubordination. I told the manager to hold off on firing the guy. I'll give him the opportunity to apologize and make things right, but I already have his replacement picked out. When it comes down to it, this is a business. I wouldn't be in the position I'm in unless I was that good. As for my management style, why don't you all Google "Jack Welch". I don't need compassion or sympathy to lead. I need results and a bottom-line, because the second I forget about that then I'll be looking for job and so will everyone else when the company fails. We pursue FIRE to have options ten to twenty years before the average worker. Not because we hate our jobs. Why would anyone punish themselves with a job they hated for ten to fifteen years with their only goal being retirement. Go out and do something with your lives. Make a difference. I know I get to make a difference every day when I go into work.
To make widely acquisitions and comment on a post with little background information is just asine. you need to learn to ask questions and collect information before adding your two cents. This thread was set up to share stories, not to collect unsolicited comments. As Mark Twain said "better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than to speak and prove them right."
I think you should follow Twain's advice :)
Edit: I realized that you're probably feeling like everyone just shit on you, and that's kind of what happened. So I can see why you came back with a hugely defensive reply.
I just want to offer this -- have you ever thought about the best way to achieve the "results and bottom line" you're looking for? Has it occurred to you that seeing the employees you supervise as people, approaching them with compassion and sympathy, and to work together with them to solve problems might be the most effective way of achieving those results? It's very hard to be motivated to fix a problem for a guy who's always treating you like shit; if you developed actual relationships with your underlings, their productivity would probably rise, which would make you look even better to your boss...
Dependency is too weak a word, slavery too strong a word, but it's somewhere in the middle there.Servitude?
Thought I'd add my own, despite not having any serious FU money or having to say FU to work. Last week I came out as transgender at work to little excitement. Having enough money to cover my debts and enough job skills to find some remote work if need be helped me to get over the whole lack of employment protection concern I had. You might say I said FU to being closeted instead.
Also, to be both foamy and on topic, my bosses were all kinds of supportive in helping me get enough things sorted out before making the big announcement. This let me relatively focus on work without them simply cracking the whip.
Thought I'd add my own, despite not having any serious FU money or having to say FU to work. Last week I came out as transgender at work to little excitement. Having enough money to cover my debts and enough job skills to find some remote work if need be helped me to get over the whole lack of employment protection concern I had. You might say I said FU to being closeted instead.
Also, to be both foamy and on topic, my bosses were all kinds of supportive in helping me get enough things sorted out before making the big announcement. This let me relatively focus on work without them simply cracking the whip.
Thought I'd add my own, despite not having any serious FU money or having to say FU to work. Last week I came out as transgender at work to little excitement. Having enough money to cover my debts and enough job skills to find some remote work if need be helped me to get over the whole lack of employment protection concern I had. You might say I said FU to being closeted instead.
Also, to be both foamy and on topic, my bosses were all kinds of supportive in helping me get enough things sorted out before making the big announcement. This let me relatively focus on work without them simply cracking the whip.
Congratulations fantabulous!
I don't have an FU story but after this past week, I want to get to that point more than ever.
I work as an engineer and about six months ago we hired another "engineer". I use the quotes because he does not have an engineering degree, just tons of experience from being out in the field. This past week we had a piece of equipment that had failed in the field and has been replaced three time prior by an exact copy but new piece of equipment each time. The "engineer" had called for it to be replaced again and I told the field guys to leave it until someone proves the equipment is truly defective, and not actually miscoordinating. The "engineer" sent me an email and included the guys in my group as well. He asked me to explain to him why I superseded his judgement. Side note, he and I are the same level and pay but he is twice my age. With FU money, I would be able to respond back with "please find attached a copy of MY engineering degree for your reference. If you need further explanation, please note the PE initials following my name. They roughly translate to I am the expert!"
Until the moment I have FU money, I have to bite my tongue and play the politics to keep building up my FU fund. Or wait two years when I'm the engineering manager and then he'll be thinking twice about what he says.
Thought I'd add my own, despite not having any serious FU money or having to say FU to work. Last week I came out as transgender at work to little excitement. Having enough money to cover my debts and enough job skills to find some remote work if need be helped me to get over the whole lack of employment protection concern I had. You might say I said FU to being closeted instead.
Also, to be both foamy and on topic, my bosses were all kinds of supportive in helping me get enough things sorted out before making the big announcement. This let me relatively focus on work without them simply cracking the whip.
People immediately started treating me ever worse and being extremely rude. They doubled my work because "You will be gone and dont have to do this anymore. You can do more for the last few weeks to give us a break." It was some odd logic. One person stopping working for days because "if you are going to quit why should I have to work." I explained to one coworker that I could walk out any time I want and do not need to take this abuse. I was only trying to help them transition.
People immediately started treating me ever worse and being extremely rude. They doubled my work because "You will be gone and dont have to do this anymore. You can do more for the last few weeks to give us a break." It was some odd logic. One person stopping working for days because "if you are going to quit why should I have to work." I explained to one coworker that I could walk out any time I want and do not need to take this abuse. I was only trying to help them transition.
Wow, you worked with some crazy people. Or perhaps small children. I am glad you got out.
- is any book you would recommend that maybe covers some issues LGBTA face or deal with more frequently than the general population?
all of the comments to my little tale are beyond amusing. To finish the story, I took the high road and informed our manager about the email. He offered to fire the guy for insubordination. I told the manager to hold off on firing the guy. I'll give him the opportunity to apologize and make things right, but I already have his replacement picked out. When it comes down to it, this is a business. I wouldn't be in the position I'm in unless I was that good. As for my management style, why don't you all Google "Jack Welch". I don't need compassion or sympathy to lead. I need results and a bottom-line, because the second I forget about that then I'll be looking for job and so will everyone else when the company fails. We pursue FIRE to have options ten to twenty years before the average worker. Not because we hate our jobs. Why would anyone punish themselves with a job they hated for ten to fifteen years with their only goal being retirement. Go out and do something with your lives. Make a difference. I know I get to make a difference every day when I go into work.I missed this the first time around. I agree, you are kind of a d!ck. Actually compassion is a very good skill to have when leading.
To make widely acquisitions and comment on a post with little background information is just asine. you need to learn to ask questions and collect information before adding your two cents. This thread was set up to share stories, not to collect unsolicited comments. As Mark Twain said "better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than to speak and prove them right."
I sometimes find myself checking out this thread on Sunday nights."Sunday Night Syndrome".
Wonder why??
Seems to have been a shortage of epic stories recently.
Me : "Are you sure we can't work out a compromise?"
Boss: "What's done is done. I can't give you more."
Me : "What if I quit today?" (We were in the middle of our big annual Summer Reading push and were insanely busy)
Boss: "What about all the things you have planned on the calendar? You can't just walk out."
Me : "Well, since I just got a new job making double the pay since our meeting, it's not really my problem. But I'll finish out the month."
Boss: Blank stare.
all of the comments to my little tale are beyond amusing. To finish the story, I took the high road and informed our manager about the email. He offered to fire the guy for insubordination. I told the manager to hold off on firing the guy. I'll give him the opportunity to apologize and make things right, but I already have his replacement picked out. When it comes down to it, this is a business. I wouldn't be in the position I'm in unless I was that good. As for my management style, why don't you all Google "Jack Welch". I don't need compassion or sympathy to lead. I need results and a bottom-line, because the second I forget about that then I'll be looking for job and so will everyone else when the company fails. We pursue FIRE to have options ten to twenty years before the average worker. Not because we hate our jobs. Why would anyone punish themselves with a job they hated for ten to fifteen years with their only goal being retirement. Go out and do something with your lives. Make a difference. I know I get to make a difference every day when I go into work.
To make widely acquisitions and comment on a post with little background information is just asine. you need to learn to ask questions and collect information before adding your two cents. This thread was set up to share stories, not to collect unsolicited comments. As Mark Twain said "better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than to speak and prove them right."
you sound like one of the guys that everyone want FU money to get away from.
+1
Me : "Are you sure we can't work out a compromise?"
Boss: "What's done is done. I can't give you more."
Me : "What if I quit today?" (We were in the middle of our big annual Summer Reading push and were insanely busy)
Boss: "What about all the things you have planned on the calendar? You can't just walk out."
Me : "Well, since I just got a new job making double the pay since our meeting, it's not really my problem. But I'll finish out the month."
Boss: Blank stare.
That's hilarious.:D
FU money allows me to be really picky when taking new jobs. A couple years ago, I was recruited for a company to be a founding member of a new division of the org. Opportunity sounded fun and challenging- starting things is one of my big thrills. However, right before they made me the offer, they told me there would be travel (I'd asked them NUMEROUS times during the interviews and they said no). After travelling with work 50% for 8 years I was done. I said, I wouldn't travel more than 4 weeks per year because I wanted to be home with my family. So, get this, they came back and increased their offer 20k so that I could "hire a nanny". I told them that wasn't the point- I wanted to be home with them not have a nanny be home with them. The SVP kept saying "I don't get it." Well, that's obvious.
all of the comments to my little tale are beyond amusing. To finish the story, I took the high road and informed our manager about the email. He offered to fire the guy for insubordination. I told the manager to hold off on firing the guy. I'll give him the opportunity to apologize and make things right, but I already have his replacement picked out. When it comes down to it, this is a business. I wouldn't be in the position I'm in unless I was that good. As for my management style, why don't you all Google "Jack Welch". I don't need compassion or sympathy to lead. I need results and a bottom-line, because the second I forget about that then I'll be looking for job and so will everyone else when the company fails. We pursue FIRE to have options ten to twenty years before the average worker. Not because we hate our jobs. Why would anyone punish themselves with a job they hated for ten to fifteen years with their only goal being retirement. Go out and do something with your lives. Make a difference. I know I get to make a difference every day when I go into work.
To make widely acquisitions and comment on a post with little background information is just asine. you need to learn to ask questions and collect information before adding your two cents. This thread was set up to share stories, not to collect unsolicited comments. As Mark Twain said "better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than to speak and prove them right."
you sound like one of the guys that everyone want FU money to get away from.
For me "U" comes before "I". FU that is, comes before FI.I'm hoping to engineer the same departure into FIRE. I work and Mega Corp and they do layoff often trying to downsize in certain areas. There is usually a nice package involved and sometimes they allow people to volunteer which is what I'm hoping will coincide with my FIRE date.
I used having FU money (for me the amount was really close to FI, so close that only slight adjustment to lifestyle in ER was necessary if the SHTF), to take risks at my job and begin pushing for what was right for clients and the company, not necessarily right for politics within.
It worked well since after about 2 yrs of this behavior they "eliminated" my job and gave me money not only to leave but a bonus to stick around another month to train the new guy (poor guy got not only my job but it was laid on top of his current job, for a lot less than I was making).
So FU money got me FIRED! HAHAHA.
Happy to be on FIRE, free and wild like a Honey Badger
I sometimes find myself checking out this thread on Sunday nights."Sunday Night Syndrome".
Wonder why??
Seems to have been a shortage of epic stories recently.
My blog's posts on retiring from the military go through the same surge of hits every Sunday night.
One way to avoid this issue would be clicking on the "Notify" button by a post, but that would just spread the Sunday night review out across the rest of the week...
Not quite FU money, but spending less than I earn has enabled me to take a pay cut in order to go do my dream job. Nothing wrong with my old job, just the opportunity of a lifetime. We should still both be able to retire in about 14 years (when I'm 46).
That's a fantastic way to leverage your FU money...Not quite FU money, but spending less than I earn has enabled me to take a pay cut in order to go do my dream job. Nothing wrong with my old job, just the opportunity of a lifetime. We should still both be able to retire in about 14 years (when I'm 46).
I'm checking back in after a year. Turns out that enjoying my job leads me to read the MMM forums a lot less frequently. The job change was totally worth it, and FI is still on track too.
Not quite FU money, but spending less than I earn has enabled me to take a pay cut in order to go do my dream job. Nothing wrong with my old job, just the opportunity of a lifetime. We should still both be able to retire in about 14 years (when I'm 46).
I'm checking back in after a year. Turns out that enjoying my job leads me to read the MMM forums a lot less frequently. The job change was totally worth it, and FI is still on track too.
There is so much attrition at my company after many rounds of layoffs, that HR is now worried too many people are leaving. So they arranged some HR feedback sessions. After attending one and speaking my mind, I keep getting invited to more. I basically regurgitate all of the moaning and groaning in the hallways back to HR. I guess the HR lady likes my feedback as I am having a meeting a week now. It's cutting into my "productive" time.
It's a lot of fun though as I say out loud what others are thinking and they all nod in agreement to the HR lady.
I try to be polite, but honest...with the power of FU money at my back pushing me along.
This is great. I just keep my mouth shut, because if I tell anyone about the grumblings, I'm a complainer and not a team player. Even if I'm not the one grumbling. At one point, they considered me the "heart" of the company and would want to know what was going on in the trenches. And I have this face, people tell me how they are really feeling.There is so much attrition at my company after many rounds of layoffs, that HR is now worried too many people are leaving. So they arranged some HR feedback sessions. After attending one and speaking my mind, I keep getting invited to more. I basically regurgitate all of the moaning and groaning in the hallways back to HR. I guess the HR lady likes my feedback as I am having a meeting a week now. It's cutting into my "productive" time.
It's a lot of fun though as I say out loud what others are thinking and they all nod in agreement to the HR lady.
I try to be polite, but honest...with the power of FU money at my back pushing me along.
I love this, and I think it's great that they want more of your honesty. I don't know about the company, but that HR person seems to really know her biz.
It's a lot of fun though as I say out loud what others are thinking and they all nod in agreement to the HR lady.Left a job once and took the opportunity at the exit interview to tell HR about all the problems working there - including the complete lack of support/contact/interest from HR.
Wow. Some people don't seem to understand basic business ethics at all. Or, even if they just don't care about ethics or somehow twist around things enough in their mind to decide something clearly unethical is okay after all, they don't seem to understand that something like that WILL come back to bite them (some way, some how) in the future.
That reminds me: I went round and round with a previous boss who was like that. FU money and general principle kept me from going along with any of her shady schemes, and I found a position in a different department.
She threw the other person who did her bidding right under the bus! Basically that person's career has been crushed. Somehow, though, my former boss has been slippery enough to survive in her job. Said she didn't know that the other person was doing the unethical things.That reminds me of the highly dramatized yet enlightening book about psychopaths, "Snakes In Suits".
Sadly, I work with someone like that. The way he treats people is terrible - anyone he sees as "beneath" him. His boss tried to fire him for cause once and lay him off once, and the upper management saved him because he's of the same ethnic group they are and he's charismatic. He managed to suck up to them big time.She threw the other person who did her bidding right under the bus! Basically that person's career has been crushed. Somehow, though, my former boss has been slippery enough to survive in her job. Said she didn't know that the other person was doing the unethical things.That reminds me of the highly dramatized yet enlightening book about psychopaths, "Snakes In Suits".
They don't hate people. They hardly have any feelings at all for people. They just see them as pawns to be moved around as needed to support their plans.
I was working full time while finishing my grad degree. It came time for me to do my research, which required me to have some time off during normal business hours. I proposed three different scenarios to my boss, which would still have me complete my 40 hours a week, but allow me the time I needed during business hours to do my research. Each scenario I proposed was me with a "no." When I pressed for reasons why, my boss replied "I need you here during normal business hours, every day." Which was complete BS, because I was never busy the whole 40 hours a week anyway.
Here's where the FU story came in. During this same conversation, my boss had the cojones to say to me "And I don't think you can afford to not have a job."
I replied with "I'm giving you my two week notice. You'll have an official letter on your desk by the end of the day."
The look on his face was priceless.
She threw the other person who did her bidding right under the bus! Basically that person's career has been crushed. Somehow, though, my former boss has been slippery enough to survive in her job. Said she didn't know that the other person was doing the unethical things.That reminds me of the highly dramatized yet enlightening book about psychopaths, "Snakes In Suits".
They don't hate people. They hardly have any feelings at all for people. They just see them as pawns to be moved around as needed to support their plans.
I've got a story.there's a company in town like that. I shudder. A couple of friends have worked there. One former coworker still does. He cries on his hour long drive home every day.
I started working for a really shitty company. No 401k, no health insurance, low pay, no separate vacation/sick days: all under a 10 day banner of "PTO." Required to work long hours, was micromanaged all day (chastised for "using the bathroom too much," being "too friendly," amongst other things), all the technology was dated, nothing got done, meanwhile the owner was off tooling around in his expensive cars and homes. The whole thing reminded me of that quote, "are you working to make your dreams come true, or someone else's dreams come true?" It was very clear to me that we were all working in substandard conditions for this ass.
All of my coworkers agreed that it was a shitty place. I kept talking about leaving and people would tell me, "you can't piss people off," "you'll never get hired anywhere else," "I could never leave, how will I pay for x,y,z." Keep in mind that this was a company that didn't pay a whole lot and offered marginal benefits.
I spent over a year being miserable. I had about $10-$12k in the bank. Finally, I was like, you know what - I am young, financially secure, I'm just going to chance it and leave and hope that things work out. I can't waste my one life that I've got in this hellhole. I've got an MA, I've had other jobs, if shit hits the fan I guess I can move back home. So I got the balls to leave. I did things the right way and gave 2 weeks notice rather than walking out with middle fingers raised (which is what I wanted to do!). Once I gave the two weeks notice the atmosphere totally changed in the office. All of my coworkers and boss were being really rude and condescending to me. Like, how dare you think you're better than this company?
4 days into my two weeks notice, I lost it. Completely went off the rails. I had had it - didn't care about the reference (which was probably going to be poor anyway given their attitude), didn't care about making nice - whatever. I threw my keys on my boss's desk and stormed out.
I got hired in a new place right away. Ironically I now work less hours and get paid more. Never looked back. ALL POSSIBLE THANKS TO FU MONEY!
I've got a story.there's a company in town like that. I shudder. A couple of friends have worked there. One former coworker still does. He cries on his hour long drive home every day.
I started working for a really shitty company. No 401k, no health insurance, low pay, no separate vacation/sick days: all under a 10 day banner of "PTO." Required to work long hours, was micromanaged all day (chastised for "using the bathroom too much," being "too friendly," amongst other things), all the technology was dated, nothing got done, meanwhile the owner was off tooling around in his expensive cars and homes. The whole thing reminded me of that quote, "are you working to make your dreams come true, or someone else's dreams come true?" It was very clear to me that we were all working in substandard conditions for this ass.
All of my coworkers agreed that it was a shitty place. I kept talking about leaving and people would tell me, "you can't piss people off," "you'll never get hired anywhere else," "I could never leave, how will I pay for x,y,z." Keep in mind that this was a company that didn't pay a whole lot and offered marginal benefits.
I spent over a year being miserable. I had about $10-$12k in the bank. Finally, I was like, you know what - I am young, financially secure, I'm just going to chance it and leave and hope that things work out. I can't waste my one life that I've got in this hellhole. I've got an MA, I've had other jobs, if shit hits the fan I guess I can move back home. So I got the balls to leave. I did things the right way and gave 2 weeks notice rather than walking out with middle fingers raised (which is what I wanted to do!). Once I gave the two weeks notice the atmosphere totally changed in the office. All of my coworkers and boss were being really rude and condescending to me. Like, how dare you think you're better than this company?
4 days into my two weeks notice, I lost it. Completely went off the rails. I had had it - didn't care about the reference (which was probably going to be poor anyway given their attitude), didn't care about making nice - whatever. I threw my keys on my boss's desk and stormed out.
I got hired in a new place right away. Ironically I now work less hours and get paid more. Never looked back. ALL POSSIBLE THANKS TO FU MONEY!
I'm coming up on a major crossroads in my career/at my company. I've been reluctant to post details about it here in case there are any closet mustachians in my real life that know who I am or might have ways of figuring it out.
Long story short, I've built a nice FU stache, and plan to double it before this crossroads occurs in a few years. It will be nice to have the option to take the road less traveled if I feel the need.
...
there's a company in town like that. I shudder. A couple of friends have worked there. One former coworker still does. He cries on his hour long drive home every day.
This is so ridiculous. Get another f-ing job.
there's a company in town like that. I shudder. A couple of friends have worked there. One former coworker still does. He cries on his hour long drive home every day.
This is so ridiculous. Get another f-ing job.
Or man up and don't cry like a little bitch. Unless your job is something like hospice nurse for sick kids or putting dogs down, why the hell are you CRYING at work?
there's a company in town like that. I shudder. A couple of friends have worked there. One former coworker still does. He cries on his hour long drive home every day.
This is so ridiculous. Get another f-ing job.
Or man up and don't cry like a little bitch. Unless your job is something like hospice nurse for sick kids or putting dogs down, why the hell are you CRYING at work?
Crying on the drive home.
You really seem to be mad at the world lately. Everything ok?
there's a company in town like that. I shudder. A couple of friends have worked there. One former coworker still does. He cries on his hour long drive home every day.
This is so ridiculous. Get another f-ing job.
Or man up and don't cry like a little bitch. Unless your job is something like hospice nurse for sick kids or putting dogs down, why the hell are you CRYING at work?
Crying on the drive home.
You really seem to be mad at the world lately. Everything ok?
I'm good, living the dream, going on my 17th year in the world not crying at work.
there's a company in town like that. I shudder. A couple of friends have worked there. One former coworker still does. He cries on his hour long drive home every day.
This is so ridiculous. Get another f-ing job.
Or man up and don't cry like a little bitch. Unless your job is something like hospice nurse for sick kids or putting dogs down, why the hell are you CRYING at work?
there's a company in town like that. I shudder. A couple of friends have worked there. One former coworker still does. He cries on his hour long drive home every day.
This is so ridiculous. Get another f-ing job.
Or man up and don't cry like a little bitch. Unless your job is something like hospice nurse for sick kids or putting dogs down, why the hell are you CRYING at work?
Men don't cry? Or if they do, they're a little bitch?
...and I watched a co-worker tell the bean counters to go fuck off within the last few days.Heh. Reminds me, we have a hiring freeze right now because the parent company of my division acquired yet another company. We're still not at the level of staff we should have, yet we're bringing on new customers left and right. But...omg no money because we bought something else, guess we'll leave all the employees at their 150% workload for another few months!
Damn it was good. OK, so this guy was going to retire anyways in the next year or two. But we're in a business that requires 1/10th hour charging to the various contracts. This guy is, well, was, being run ragged with 20 different contracts to charge to. The asshats in bean counting dinged him for supposedly not charging correctly. Yeah, bullshit. I've never seen anyone try his level best in a bullshit system. Anyways, they tagged him for remedial training with his manager. He sends out his retirement notice - first person on the e-mail is the asshat bean counter in the far off city, 2nd is his manager.
I think Shakespeare was wrong in his assessment. The first thing we should do is kill all the fucking bean counting accountants. THEN kill all the lawyers.
[No, no I'm not at all bitter about the bullshit from these fucking, moronic MBA bullshit spewing bean counting penny-wise, million dollar foolish idiots that don't know how to run a company. They're driving it into the ground - this great American Success Story that was built by engineers and manufacturing workers].
...and I watched a co-worker tell the bean counters to go fuck off within the last few days.
Damn it was good. OK, so this guy was going to retire anyways in the next year or two. But we're in a business that requires 1/10th hour charging to the various contracts. This guy is, well, was, being run ragged with 20 different contracts to charge to. The asshats in bean counting dinged him for supposedly not charging correctly. Yeah, bullshit. I've never seen anyone try his level best in a bullshit system. Anyways, they tagged him for remedial training with his manager. He sends out his retirement notice - first person on the e-mail is the asshat bean counter in the far off city, 2nd is his manager.
I think Shakespeare was wrong in his assessment. The first thing we should do is kill all the fucking bean counting accountants. THEN kill all the lawyers.
[No, no I'm not at all bitter about the bullshit from these fucking, moronic MBA bullshit spewing bean counting penny-wise, million dollar foolish idiots that don't know how to run a company. They're driving it into the ground - this great American Success Story that was built by engineers and manufacturing workers].
Back on topic here...
On a Monday morning this June I went into work at my job of 10+ years. I was in a good mood and didn't have any intentions of quitting. During the morning meeting something just set me off, and I spoke up in front of everyone and told them I thought that what our organization was doing was WRONG, IMMORAL, and that we should stop! Everyone's jaws just dropped. One of the managers in the meeting said, "Well, I don't think that one of us should be saying things like that. We all need to be on the same page." My supervisor chimed in and just basically repeated the company policy and told everyone that that's what we would be following.
When we walked out of the meeting my supervisor acted like nothing had happened. He gave me a list of a couple of routine things he wanted me to do that day, and I nodded my head and said okay. As soon as my supervisor walked away I loaded all of my personal things into a vehicle, went back inside, gave everyone a big hug and wished them all a good life. Apparently no one realized I was quitting at the time. They all just thought I was apologizing for my outburst or not being a team player, or something.
When I walked back outside to the parking lot my supervisor was there. I walked up to him, shook his hand and said, "I'm going home." He was like, "What do you mean? Are you sick?" I said, "No, I'm just over it. I've got better things to do with my time. I don't want to be part of this anymore. I'm leaving." I hopped in the car and drove away. I could see my supervisor in the rear view mirror standing there with his jaw dropped.
At our main office I spent about an hour explaining to our director why I was leaving and why I didn't agree with our organization's policies. She was really nice and asked me to reconsider and stay. She proposed various scenarios that might allow me to stay on and continue working, but by that point I was really beyond wanting to continue working for the organization. I just told her I was sorry and that I was ready to move on.
Our director seemed really concerned that I was making an irresponsible, rash decision. She kept reminding me that I needed to think of my wife (SAHM) and young daughter and that I needed to have a job. I explained to her calmly that I had investments and savings, and that we would be fine. I told her that by my calculations my family and I should be able to live comfortably off of our investments indefinitely. At some point, I may choose to take another job or maybe start a business that interests me, but I shouldn't have to. At that point, the director got kind of quiet, and she said, "Wow, I wish I could do that. If I could, I'd quit too."
there's a company in town like that. I shudder. A couple of friends have worked there. One former coworker still does. He cries on his hour long drive home every day.Yes! Two of my former coworkers were fired from there for just "not getting along/ not a good fit" (yeah, they weren't assholes?)
This is so ridiculous. Get another f-ing job.
Yeah, on the way home.there's a company in town like that. I shudder. A couple of friends have worked there. One former coworker still does. He cries on his hour long drive home every day.
This is so ridiculous. Get another f-ing job.
Or man up and don't cry like a little bitch. Unless your job is something like hospice nurse for sick kids or putting dogs down, why the hell are you CRYING at work?
Back on topic here...
On a Monday morning this June I went into work at my job of 10+ years. I was in a good mood and didn't have any intentions of quitting. During the morning meeting something just set me off, and I spoke up in front of everyone and told them I thought that what our organization was doing was WRONG, IMMORAL, and that we should stop! Everyone's jaws just dropped. One of the managers in the meeting said, "Well, I don't think that one of us should be saying things like that. We all need to be on the same page." My supervisor chimed in and just basically repeated the company policy and told everyone that that's what we would be following.
When we walked out of the meeting my supervisor acted like nothing had happened. He gave me a list of a couple of routine things he wanted me to do that day, and I nodded my head and said okay. As soon as my supervisor walked away I loaded all of my personal things into a vehicle, went back inside, gave everyone a big hug and wished them all a good life. Apparently no one realized I was quitting at the time. They all just thought I was apologizing for my outburst or not being a team player, or something.
When I walked back outside to the parking lot my supervisor was there. I walked up to him, shook his hand and said, "I'm going home." He was like, "What do you mean? Are you sick?" I said, "No, I'm just over it. I've got better things to do with my time. I don't want to be part of this anymore. I'm leaving." I hopped in the car and drove away. I could see my supervisor in the rear view mirror standing there with his jaw dropped.
At our main office I spent about an hour explaining to our director why I was leaving and why I didn't agree with our organization's policies. She was really nice and asked me to reconsider and stay. She proposed various scenarios that might allow me to stay on and continue working, but by that point I was really beyond wanting to continue working for the organization. I just told her I was sorry and that I was ready to move on.
Our director seemed really concerned that I was making an irresponsible, rash decision. She kept reminding me that I needed to think of my wife (SAHM) and young daughter and that I needed to have a job. I explained to her calmly that I had investments and savings, and that we would be fine. I told her that by my calculations my family and I should be able to live comfortably off of our investments indefinitely. At some point, I may choose to take another job or maybe start a business that interests me, but I shouldn't have to. At that point, the director got kind of quiet, and she said, "Wow, I wish I could do that. If I could, I'd quit too."
Back on topic here...
On a Monday morning this June I went into work at my job of 10+ years. I was in a good mood and didn't have any intentions of quitting. During the morning meeting something just set me off, and I spoke up in front of everyone and told them I thought that what our organization was doing was WRONG, IMMORAL, and that we should stop! Everyone's jaws just dropped. One of the managers in the meeting said, "Well, I don't think that one of us should be saying things like that. We all need to be on the same page." My supervisor chimed in and just basically repeated the company policy and told everyone that that's what we would be following.
When we walked out of the meeting my supervisor acted like nothing had happened. He gave me a list of a couple of routine things he wanted me to do that day, and I nodded my head and said okay. As soon as my supervisor walked away I loaded all of my personal things into a vehicle, went back inside, gave everyone a big hug and wished them all a good life. Apparently no one realized I was quitting at the time. They all just thought I was apologizing for my outburst or not being a team player, or something.
When I walked back outside to the parking lot my supervisor was there. I walked up to him, shook his hand and said, "I'm going home." He was like, "What do you mean? Are you sick?" I said, "No, I'm just over it. I've got better things to do with my time. I don't want to be part of this anymore. I'm leaving." I hopped in the car and drove away. I could see my supervisor in the rear view mirror standing there with his jaw dropped.
At our main office I spent about an hour explaining to our director why I was leaving and why I didn't agree with our organization's policies. She was really nice and asked me to reconsider and stay. She proposed various scenarios that might allow me to stay on and continue working, but by that point I was really beyond wanting to continue working for the organization. I just told her I was sorry and that I was ready to move on.
Our director seemed really concerned that I was making an irresponsible, rash decision. She kept reminding me that I needed to think of my wife (SAHM) and young daughter and that I needed to have a job. I explained to her calmly that I had investments and savings, and that we would be fine. I told her that by my calculations my family and I should be able to live comfortably off of our investments indefinitely. At some point, I may choose to take another job or maybe start a business that interests me, but I shouldn't have to. At that point, the director got kind of quiet, and she said, "Wow, I wish I could do that. If I could, I'd quit too."
Nice! Sounds like you may have some things to share in the job secrets thread! (Sorry, but I can't seem to find it at the moment...)
Nice! Sounds like you may have some things to share in the job secrets thread! (Sorry, but I can't seem to find it at the moment...)
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/post-secrets-you-know-from-your-previouscurrent-jobs/
Back on topic here...
On a Monday morning this June I went into work at my job of 10+ years. I was in a good mood and didn't have any intentions of quitting. During the morning meeting something just set me off, and I spoke up in front of everyone and told them I thought that what our organization was doing was WRONG, IMMORAL, and that we should stop! Everyone's jaws just dropped. One of the managers in the meeting said, "Well, I don't think that one of us should be saying things like that. We all need to be on the same page." My supervisor chimed in and just basically repeated the company policy and told everyone that that's what we would be following.
When we walked out of the meeting my supervisor acted like nothing had happened. He gave me a list of a couple of routine things he wanted me to do that day, and I nodded my head and said okay. As soon as my supervisor walked away I loaded all of my personal things into a vehicle, went back inside, gave everyone a big hug and wished them all a good life. Apparently no one realized I was quitting at the time. They all just thought I was apologizing for my outburst or not being a team player, or something.
Back on topic here...
On a Monday morning this June I went into work at my job of 10+ years. I was in a good mood and didn't have any intentions of quitting. During the morning meeting something just set me off, and I spoke up in front of everyone and told them I thought that what our organization was doing was WRONG, IMMORAL, and that we should stop! Everyone's jaws just dropped. One of the managers in the meeting said, "Well, I don't think that one of us should be saying things like that. We all need to be on the same page." My supervisor chimed in and just basically repeated the company policy and told everyone that that's what we would be following.
When we walked out of the meeting my supervisor acted like nothing had happened. He gave me a list of a couple of routine things he wanted me to do that day, and I nodded my head and said okay. As soon as my supervisor walked away I loaded all of my personal things into a vehicle, went back inside, gave everyone a big hug and wished them all a good life. Apparently no one realized I was quitting at the time. They all just thought I was apologizing for my outburst or not being a team player, or something.
Signed, Don Draper.
...and I watched a co-worker tell the bean counters to go fuck off within the last few days.
Damn it was good. OK, so this guy was going to retire anyways in the next year or two. But we're in a business that requires 1/10th hour charging to the various contracts. This guy is, well, was, being run ragged with 20 different contracts to charge to. The asshats in bean counting dinged him for supposedly not charging correctly. Yeah, bullshit. I've never seen anyone try his level best in a bullshit system. Anyways, they tagged him for remedial training with his manager. He sends out his retirement notice - first person on the e-mail is the asshat bean counter in the far off city, 2nd is his manager.
I think Shakespeare was wrong in his assessment. The first thing we should do is kill all the fucking bean counting accountants. THEN kill all the lawyers.
[No, no I'm not at all bitter about the bullshit from these fucking, moronic MBA bullshit spewing bean counting penny-wise, million dollar foolish idiots that don't know how to run a company. They're driving it into the ground - this great American Success Story that was built by engineers and manufacturing workers].
Our director seemed really concerned that I was making an irresponsible, rash decision. She kept reminding me that I needed to think of my wife (SAHM) and young daughter and that I needed to have a job. I explained to her calmly that I had investments and savings, and that we would be fine. I told her that by my calculations my family and I should be able to live comfortably off of our investments indefinitely. At some point, I may choose to take another job or maybe start a business that interests me, but I shouldn't have to. At that point, the director got kind of quiet, and she said, "Wow, I wish I could do that. If I could, I'd quit too."
What was the wrong immoral thing?
Nice! Sounds like you may have some things to share in the job secrets thread! (Sorry, but I can't seem to find it at the moment...)
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/post-secrets-you-know-from-your-previouscurrent-jobs/
Thanks!
Back on topic here...
On a Monday morning this June I went into work at my job of 10+ years. I was in a good mood and didn't have any intentions of quitting. During the morning meeting something just set me off, and I spoke up in front of everyone and told them I thought that what our organization was doing was WRONG, IMMORAL, and that we should stop! Everyone's jaws just dropped. One of the managers in the meeting said, "Well, I don't think that one of us should be saying things like that. We all need to be on the same page." My supervisor chimed in and just basically repeated the company policy and told everyone that that's what we would be following.
When we walked out of the meeting my supervisor acted like nothing had happened. He gave me a list of a couple of routine things he wanted me to do that day, and I nodded my head and said okay. As soon as my supervisor walked away I loaded all of my personal things into a vehicle, went back inside, gave everyone a big hug and wished them all a good life. Apparently no one realized I was quitting at the time. They all just thought I was apologizing for my outburst or not being a team player, or something.
When I walked back outside to the parking lot my supervisor was there. I walked up to him, shook his hand and said, "I'm going home." He was like, "What do you mean? Are you sick?" I said, "No, I'm just over it. I've got better things to do with my time. I don't want to be part of this anymore. I'm leaving." I hopped in the car and drove away. I could see my supervisor in the rear view mirror standing there with his jaw dropped.
At our main office I spent about an hour explaining to our director why I was leaving and why I didn't agree with our organization's policies. She was really nice and asked me to reconsider and stay. She proposed various scenarios that might allow me to stay on and continue working, but by that point I was really beyond wanting to continue working for the organization. I just told her I was sorry and that I was ready to move on.
Our director seemed really concerned that I was making an irresponsible, rash decision. She kept reminding me that I needed to think of my wife (SAHM) and young daughter and that I needed to have a job. I explained to her calmly that I had investments and savings, and that we would be fine. I told her that by my calculations my family and I should be able to live comfortably off of our investments indefinitely. At some point, I may choose to take another job or maybe start a business that interests me, but I shouldn't have to. At that point, the director got kind of quiet, and she said, "Wow, I wish I could do that. If I could, I'd quit too."
...and I watched a co-worker tell the bean counters to go fuck off within the last few days.
Damn it was good. OK, so this guy was going to retire anyways in the next year or two. But we're in a business that requires 1/10th hour charging to the various contracts. This guy is, well, was, being run ragged with 20 different contracts to charge to. The asshats in bean counting dinged him for supposedly not charging correctly. Yeah, bullshit. I've never seen anyone try his level best in a bullshit system. Anyways, they tagged him for remedial training with his manager. He sends out his retirement notice - first person on the e-mail is the asshat bean counter in the far off city, 2nd is his manager.
I think Shakespeare was wrong in his assessment. The first thing we should do is kill all the fucking bean counting accountants. THEN kill all the lawyers.
[No, no I'm not at all bitter about the bullshit from these fucking, moronic MBA bullshit spewing bean counting penny-wise, million dollar foolish idiots that don't know how to run a company. They're driving it into the ground - this great American Success Story that was built by engineers and manufacturing workers].
It's all fun and games until a customer requests an audit of your charges and can find errors and starts disputing the charges, drags you to court, etc etc. Or God forbid it's a gov't contract you've fucked up on. Us bean counters aren't making up this shit because we like fucking with people, you know.
...and I watched a co-worker tell the bean counters to go fuck off within the last few days.
Damn it was good. OK, so this guy was going to retire anyways in the next year or two. But we're in a business that requires 1/10th hour charging to the various contracts. This guy is, well, was, being run ragged with 20 different contracts to charge to. The asshats in bean counting dinged him for supposedly not charging correctly. Yeah, bullshit. I've never seen anyone try his level best in a bullshit system. Anyways, they tagged him for remedial training with his manager. He sends out his retirement notice - first person on the e-mail is the asshat bean counter in the far off city, 2nd is his manager.
I think Shakespeare was wrong in his assessment. The first thing we should do is kill all the fucking bean counting accountants. THEN kill all the lawyers.
[No, no I'm not at all bitter about the bullshit from these fucking, moronic MBA bullshit spewing bean counting penny-wise, million dollar foolish idiots that don't know how to run a company. They're driving it into the ground - this great American Success Story that was built by engineers and manufacturing workers].
It's all fun and games until a customer requests an audit of your charges and can find errors and starts disputing the charges, drags you to court, etc etc. Or God forbid it's a gov't contract you've fucked up on. Us bean counters aren't making up this shit because we like fucking with people, you know.
Yeah from one fucking bean counter to another... I work with a lot of federal regulations in telecommunications where the most minor hock up can either result in an audit or the withholding of payments from the Federal Communications Commission. I choose which battles to fight, but sometimes wish others understood that it doesn't take all that much frankly to get others up in your business. Because we get federal payments how people account for their time on projects is important.So one choice would be to make the tracking & compliance system more user-friendly.
...and I watched a co-worker tell the bean counters to go fuck off within the last few days.Heh. Reminds me, we have a hiring freeze right now because the parent company of my division acquired yet another company. We're still not at the level of staff we should have, yet we're bringing on new customers left and right. But...omg no money because we bought something else, guess we'll leave all the employees at their 150% workload for another few months!
Damn it was good. OK, so this guy was going to retire anyways in the next year or two. But we're in a business that requires 1/10th hour charging to the various contracts. This guy is, well, was, being run ragged with 20 different contracts to charge to. The asshats in bean counting dinged him for supposedly not charging correctly. Yeah, bullshit. I've never seen anyone try his level best in a bullshit system. Anyways, they tagged him for remedial training with his manager. He sends out his retirement notice - first person on the e-mail is the asshat bean counter in the far off city, 2nd is his manager.
I think Shakespeare was wrong in his assessment. The first thing we should do is kill all the fucking bean counting accountants. THEN kill all the lawyers.
[No, no I'm not at all bitter about the bullshit from these fucking, moronic MBA bullshit spewing bean counting penny-wise, million dollar foolish idiots that don't know how to run a company. They're driving it into the ground - this great American Success Story that was built by engineers and manufacturing workers].
My issue with this is demonizing "bean counters" for being assholes just trying to split fine hairs to make others' lives difficult or defend things on the basis of "principle." For instance, in my case certain government agencies that we rely on for funding can be pretty unreasonable when it comes to getting payments or auditing records for payments.So the government bean counters are assholes then ?
...and I watched a co-worker tell the bean counters to go fuck off within the last few days.
Damn it was good. OK, so this guy was going to retire anyways in the next year or two. But we're in a business that requires 1/10th hour charging to the various contracts.
...and I watched a co-worker tell the bean counters to go fuck off within the last few days.Heh. Reminds me, we have a hiring freeze right now because the parent company of my division acquired yet another company. We're still not at the level of staff we should have, yet we're bringing on new customers left and right. But...omg no money because we bought something else, guess we'll leave all the employees at their 150% workload for another few months!
Damn it was good. OK, so this guy was going to retire anyways in the next year or two. But we're in a business that requires 1/10th hour charging to the various contracts. This guy is, well, was, being run ragged with 20 different contracts to charge to. The asshats in bean counting dinged him for supposedly not charging correctly. Yeah, bullshit. I've never seen anyone try his level best in a bullshit system. Anyways, they tagged him for remedial training with his manager. He sends out his retirement notice - first person on the e-mail is the asshat bean counter in the far off city, 2nd is his manager.
I think Shakespeare was wrong in his assessment. The first thing we should do is kill all the fucking bean counting accountants. THEN kill all the lawyers.
[No, no I'm not at all bitter about the bullshit from these fucking, moronic MBA bullshit spewing bean counting penny-wise, million dollar foolish idiots that don't know how to run a company. They're driving it into the ground - this great American Success Story that was built by engineers and manufacturing workers].
Sad news Jlee, 150% workload is the new normal. Get used to it. :(
I decided to change my situation instead of getting used to it. I signed an offer letter with a ~$36k raise today. Even if it's 150% workload, at least now it's 159% pay! ;)...and I watched a co-worker tell the bean counters to go fuck off within the last few days.Heh. Reminds me, we have a hiring freeze right now because the parent company of my division acquired yet another company. We're still not at the level of staff we should have, yet we're bringing on new customers left and right. But...omg no money because we bought something else, guess we'll leave all the employees at their 150% workload for another few months!
Damn it was good. OK, so this guy was going to retire anyways in the next year or two. But we're in a business that requires 1/10th hour charging to the various contracts. This guy is, well, was, being run ragged with 20 different contracts to charge to. The asshats in bean counting dinged him for supposedly not charging correctly. Yeah, bullshit. I've never seen anyone try his level best in a bullshit system. Anyways, they tagged him for remedial training with his manager. He sends out his retirement notice - first person on the e-mail is the asshat bean counter in the far off city, 2nd is his manager.
I think Shakespeare was wrong in his assessment. The first thing we should do is kill all the fucking bean counting accountants. THEN kill all the lawyers.
[No, no I'm not at all bitter about the bullshit from these fucking, moronic MBA bullshit spewing bean counting penny-wise, million dollar foolish idiots that don't know how to run a company. They're driving it into the ground - this great American Success Story that was built by engineers and manufacturing workers].
Sad news Jlee, 150% workload is the new normal. Get used to it. :(
After the meeting I walked into my bosses office and told him "there are 9 of us in the department, if I leave that's 12.5% for everyone else." ... They tracked my progress on a world map in the hall...
...After the meeting I walked into my bosses office and told him "there are 9 of us in the department, if I leave that's 12.5% for everyone else." ....
The week I left they gave everyone back their 12.5%. I spend the next year living out of my carry on backpack. They tracked my progress on a world map in the hall...
...
I have not read everyone's stories yet, but I do have my own epic FU money story.
...awesome story here...
They really are competent, professional people - but bad business and money managers. In the end, I maintained great relationships with everyone except the managing partner and the office administrator.
I have not read everyone's stories yet, but I do have my own epic FU money story.
...awesome story here...
They really are competent, professional people - but bad business and money managers. In the end, I maintained great relationships with everyone except the managing partner and the office administrator.
So, wait: do the rest of the attorneys realize the financial risk they are taking by being associated with managing partner and her little rat-on-a-leash? Why wouldn't they get messed with the same way you got messed with?
I have not read everyone's stories yet, but I do have my own epic FU money story.
...awesome story here...
They really are competent, professional people - but bad business and money managers. In the end, I maintained great relationships with everyone except the managing partner and the office administrator.
So, wait: do the rest of the attorneys realize the financial risk they are taking by being associated with managing partner and her little rat-on-a-leash? Why wouldn't they get messed with the same way you got messed with?
Very good question. This actually does happen. One of my friends, and partner at the firm, has told me at least two stories where exactly this sort of thing is happening. Unfortunately, he is also the one who sets his spending to his salary. Actually told me he would like to leave but doesn't have the funds.
As a lawyer, I can tell you that we fall onto the same goddamned hedonic treadmill as everyone else. I've got a book called 'The Pinstriped Prison' which describes how big firms deliberately use this effect to keep their new hires from leaving. Give a new graduate a $10,000 loan (referred to as the 'golden handcuffs' - repayable if the graduate leaves in the first year) for office clothes and gear, watch them piss away all of their new income on the flashy lifestyle the partners indulge in, then they realise that they can't leave because they can't save the $10,000 because of their new spending level.I have seen this happen first hand with relocation packages. Dude wouldn't quit over a mere $3,000 that the company paid him to move to the area. Household income over $200k, and worried about $3k? smh
My buddy and I on the other hand have had plenty of career success since, so the good guys do win sometimes. I've never wanted to be in a position where the douchebags have control. I wonder what the world would be like if everyone had the option?
1. Working for a micromanaging idiot abusive boss in the federal government, I finally hit the FU point after he followed me into the woman's room to yell at me while I was on the toilet - in a bathroom where the stall doors didn't even close because of the building's foundation settling. I decided for the sake of other employees still stuck there, that I would let his boss know what was happening. We had a staff of maybe 10 people, and one by one they were dropping like flies since he was transferred in. One got a medical disability for mental stress. One had a stroke - on the job. I could see I was starting to have stress related health issues.
He found out I made an appointment with his boss and blew a gasket - claiming that I needed to go through my chain of command if I wanted to talk to his supervisor, like I was seriously going to ask if it was okay with him if I lodged a complaint against him. We ended up having a meeting with his boss, the three of us, because he wouldn't let me go alone. His boss seemed to think it might be a personality conflict between just us two, with blame to share equally, until the point where I said I already had picked up the paperwork to quit - I showed them the stack of outprocessing papers, and I just thought they needed to know they were losing the whole team because of him being abusive.
My boss lost it when he heard that, and started yelling that this was "just another example of her making a unilateral decision that affected everyone in the office." (Those words are burned into my memory, almost 20 years later!) I asked him, do you mean I should have asked your permission to quit? That was exactly what he meant, that I was overstepping my bounds by making decision for myself. I'll never forget looking over at his supervisor and seeing her sitting there in stunned silence, with her mouth hanging open.
After the meeting, she found me another job at the same paygrade at the same facility, but a different building. I worked another 5 or so years there and was very happy.
As a lawyer, I can tell you that we fall onto the same goddamned hedonic treadmill as everyone else. I've got a book called 'The Pinstriped Prison' which describes how big firms deliberately use this effect to keep their new hires from leaving. Give a new graduate a $10,000 loan (referred to as the 'golden handcuffs' - repayable if the graduate leaves in the first year) for office clothes and gear, watch them piss away all of their new income on the flashy lifestyle the partners indulge in, then they realise that they can't leave because they can't save the $10,000 because of their new spending level.I have seen this happen first hand with relocation packages. Dude wouldn't quit over a mere $3,000 that the company paid him to move to the area. Household income over $200k, and worried about $3k? smh
As a lawyer, I can tell you that we fall onto the same goddamned hedonic treadmill as everyone else. I've got a book called 'The Pinstriped Prison' which describes how big firms deliberately use this effect to keep their new hires from leaving. Give a new graduate a $10,000 loan (referred to as the 'golden handcuffs' - repayable if the graduate leaves in the first year) for office clothes and gear, watch them piss away all of their new income on the flashy lifestyle the partners indulge in, then they realise that they can't leave because they can't save the $10,000 because of their new spending level.I have seen this happen first hand with relocation packages. Dude wouldn't quit over a mere $3,000 that the company paid him to move to the area. Household income over $200k, and worried about $3k? smh
This is my situation right now. I held off on quitting because I wanted to hold out a year so I didn't have to pay them back the money. However, the situation just kept escalating. So put in my resignation last week (should have just done it back in June, but I thought if I could get HR involved things would improve. I was so so wrong).
I have the cash to pay it back, but it does make things tighter for me on looking for a new job, now I have to find something within 2 months instead of 6.
This is my situation right now. I held off on quitting because I wanted to hold out a year so I didn't have to pay them back the money. However, the situation just kept escalating. So put in my resignation last week (should have just done it back in June, but I thought if I could get HR involved things would improve. I was so so wrong).
I have the cash to pay it back, but it does make things tighter for me on looking for a new job, now I have to find something within 2 months instead of 6.
Yeah. HR exists to protect MANAGEMENT from lawsuits, not humor the employees. I'm an IT professional who supported HR departments....so I'm not making that shit up. I have a co-worker at the current job who just now discovered that.
So....how are you fixing it. This is a thread of epic stories, not "oh man, I suck so bad...."
This is my situation right now. I held off on quitting because I wanted to hold out a year so I didn't have to pay them back the money. However, the situation just kept escalating. So put in my resignation last week (should have just done it back in June, but I thought if I could get HR involved things would improve. I was so so wrong).
I have the cash to pay it back, but it does make things tighter for me on looking for a new job, now I have to find something within 2 months instead of 6.
Yeah. HR exists to protect MANAGEMENT from lawsuits, not humor the employees. I'm an IT professional who supported HR departments....so I'm not making that shit up. I have a co-worker at the current job who just now discovered that.
So....how are you fixing it. This is a thread of epic stories, not "oh man, I suck so bad...."
Ok, here is my semi-epic horrible story:
I started at this job at the tail end of February/beginning of March.
Right of the bat there were problems. The person who had previously done this job was still there and training me. His "training" went a bit like this:
Trainer: So I pull this number into this spreadsheet -
Me: Wait, where did you get that number and how do you know to put it there?
trainer: I just know.
Further prodding gets me nowhere. So I basically receive NO training, despite having a trainer. The trainer also gives me a workbook of things that are behind that need to be done ASAP. Some of them are tax returns that are two years past due. Others are things still not done that are related to a merger the company went through the year before I started. I get so sick the first two weeks I'm there that I collapse and am rushed to the emergency room.
Meanwhile, my boss keeps dropping more and more duties on me. My first week I took over all cash forecasting, all the fixed asset stuff, Construction licenses, and became their key user for the new EPR system that was supposed to be going live May 1st.
By April I was in charge of:
- Cash Forecasting
- Construction Licenses
- All Fixed assets, including Construction in Progress, gathering backup documentation for all FA purchases, and disposals
- Approval of all FA invoices before they are paid and reporting on all outstanding FA Purchase Orders
- Depreciation Forecasting
- Depreciation monthly entries
- Monthly prepaid allocations
- Reconciling all Inter-company accounts at the end of each month (this place has about a dozen different offshoots in Europe, Asia, America, Africa, etc)
- Sales tax for all 50 states including registration, renewals, and filings
By the end of May, go live had been pushed back to October 1st. Meanwhile I was given new duties on TOP of all the duties listed above:
- all the User acceptance testing assignments
- all the system master data validations
- writing all the procedures & documentation
- the assignment to train everyone in finance on how to use the new system
By June I had the following duties ADDED To my plate, and remember I'm STILL in charge of everything above as well:
- Credit Card management of all corporate credit cards
- Registering fleet vehicles with the Dept of Motor Vehicles
- Signing off on all outgoing ACH and WIRE payments
- Filling out the monthly Financial Statement package
- Management of all corporate insurance
In the middle of June one day I get so stressed out that I basically have a complete meltdown at work. I go to my boss, begging for help where I'm told I'm just 'not working hard enough.' I walked out of her office, went in the bathroom and cried for an hour. I was VERY VERY tempted to just walk away that day and never come back, but the aforementioned 'golden handcuffs' convinces me to stay and try to get things under control. At this point I've not even been there 4 months and had two breakdowns.
In July I have another meeting with my boss where I tell her I'm overloaded, and ask her to give me priorities. She refuses, tells me 'everything' is a priority and reiterates that the reason I'm behind is that I'm not working enough and not working hard enough. Also, she gives me a list of more duties that she's going to be transferring over to me in the near future.
I begin to cope by literally dropping every task that someone is not asking me for right at that moment, but I'm enough of a stickler that the undone tasks are stressing me out.
At the beginning of Aug I go to HR, and ask them to moderate a meeting between me and my boss. During that meeting, I'm VERY honest with the fact that I haven't been doing a lot of tasks on my list simply because of the lack of time. She FREAKS OUT about the merger related tasks that still aren't done, and insists I do them NOW. She does finally agree to take ONE tasks off my list of duties, but since it is one of the things I hadn't been doing it doesn't affect my workload in any way.
Later in the month she uses the excuse that she took that one task off my list to try and give me three more tasks.
I write a resignation later, and on August 26th go in with the letter in hand to try and have one more conversation with her about my workload.
Now, remember, it is a month before go live. Because of my crazy task list above I've had time to do zero training and written zero documentation and zero procedures. I'm the ONLY one in the department that even knows how to log into the new system.
She doesn't budge so I hand her the letter with my last day as Sept 11th. She FREAKS OUT, but finally calms down long enough to ask if I'll stay until after go live if she takes everything off my tasks list except the training, documentation, and procedure documentation.
So it all works out for me. I have a job for 2 more months, time to job hunt, and since the amount I have to pay back is prorated it means that I'll only have to pay back about 1/4 of the starting bonus.
After the announcement went out that I was quitting, IT (whom I'd been working closely with on the new system implementation - BTW their jaws hit the floor when I repeated my bosses claim that I wasn't 'working hard enough') offered me a job with them for $25K more a year than I'd been making in accounting. I declined, because F*** this company.
As many of you are aware, I am FIRE'd, but I have a fake job as a self-employed CPA. I like doing taxes and being a CPA is kind of fun.
But I have this weird client. He was one of my first clients and he started as a tax/accounting client, but over time his requests got a little outside of the norm of what you would normally ask your CPA to do. Like shopping for his health insurance, dealing with his property insurance company, drafting letters to various organizations, paying his bills. He even gave my phone number to his mortgage company so that I could "handle" his mortgage refinance. Obviously, I'm not charging this guy enough, because he seems to view me as his personal assistant.
So today, as a courtesy, I sent an email letting know a few of my clients that I'm going on vacation.
About 30 seconds later, I get a call from him: "Before you go on vacation, I need you to submit an invoice for a government contract."
So I reply with, "Um... I don't know how to do that, so I don't think it's going to be possible."
Him: "This is something I'll need you to do monthly. It's really easy, I'll walk you through it. "
Me: "This really isn't what I do. I am a Certified Public Accountant... And my E&O insurance isn't going to cover me if I make an error on something like this. You're going to need to find someone else to do that."
Him: "Other accountants have done it for me in the past. Anyway, I would need more notice than 5 minutes before it's due if I were going to find someone else."
Me: "I think you've misunderstood our professional relationship. I'm not your employee. I said no. It's not open for negotiation."
Him: "I'm sensing some tension. Let's talk about this some more when you've calmed down."
I told him: "Good luck with that." And I hung up. [I must have been calm, because I didn't tell him to shove his phone up his A$$.]
The true beauty of being FIRE'd: I don't need that guy's check to pay my bills.
epic FU story
As many of you are aware, I am FIRE'd, but I have a fake job as a self-employed CPA. I like doing taxes and being a CPA is kind of fun.
But I have this weird client. He was one of my first clients and he started as a tax/accounting client, but over time his requests got a little outside of the norm of what you would normally ask your CPA to do. Like shopping for his health insurance, dealing with his property insurance company, drafting letters to various organizations, paying his bills. He even gave my phone number to his mortgage company so that I could "handle" his mortgage refinance. Obviously, I'm not charging this guy enough, because he seems to view me as his personal assistant.
So today, as a courtesy, I sent an email letting know a few of my clients that I'm going on vacation.
About 30 seconds later, I get a call from him: "Before you go on vacation, I need you to submit an invoice for a government contract."
So I reply with, "Um... I don't know how to do that, so I don't think it's going to be possible."
Him: "This is something I'll need you to do monthly. It's really easy, I'll walk you through it. "
Me: "This really isn't what I do. I am a Certified Public Accountant... And my E&O insurance isn't going to cover me if I make an error on something like this. You're going to need to find someone else to do that."
Him: "Other accountants have done it for me in the past. Anyway, I would need more notice than 5 minutes before it's due if I were going to find someone else."
Me: "I think you've misunderstood our professional relationship. I'm not your employee. I said no. It's not open for negotiation."
Him: "I'm sensing some tension. Let's talk about this some more when you've calmed down."
I told him: "Good luck with that." And I hung up. [I must have been calm, because I didn't tell him to shove his phone up his A$$.]
The true beauty of being FIRE'd: I don't need that guy's check to pay my bills.
As many of you are aware, I am FIRE'd, but I have a fake job as a self-employed CPA. I like doing taxes and being a CPA is kind of fun.
But I have this weird client. He was one of my first clients and he started as a tax/accounting client, but over time his requests got a little outside of the norm of what you would normally ask your CPA to do. Like shopping for his health insurance, dealing with his property insurance company, drafting letters to various organizations, paying his bills. He even gave my phone number to his mortgage company so that I could "handle" his mortgage refinance. Obviously, I'm not charging this guy enough, because he seems to view me as his personal assistant.
As many of you are aware, I am FIRE'd, but I have a fake job as a self-employed CPA. I like doing taxes and being a CPA is kind of fun.
But I have this weird client. ....
As many of you are aware, I am FIRE'd, but I have a fake job as a self-employed CPA. I like doing taxes and being a CPA is kind of fun.
But I have this weird client. He was one of my first clients and he started as a tax/accounting client, but over time his requests got a little outside of the norm of what you would normally ask your CPA to do. Like shopping for his health insurance, dealing with his property insurance company, drafting letters to various organizations, paying his bills. He even gave my phone number to his mortgage company so that I could "handle" his mortgage refinance. Obviously, I'm not charging this guy enough, because he seems to view me as his personal assistant.
So today, as a courtesy, I sent an email letting know a few of my clients that I'm going on vacation.
About 30 seconds later, I get a call from him: "Before you go on vacation, I need you to submit an invoice for a government contract."
So I reply with, "Um... I don't know how to do that, so I don't think it's going to be possible."
Him: "This is something I'll need you to do monthly. It's really easy, I'll walk you through it. "
Me: "This really isn't what I do. I am a Certified Public Accountant... And my E&O insurance isn't going to cover me if I make an error on something like this. You're going to need to find someone else to do that."
Him: "Other accountants have done it for me in the past. Anyway, I would need more notice than 5 minutes before it's due if I were going to find someone else."
Me: "I think you've misunderstood our professional relationship. I'm not your employee. I said no. It's not open for negotiation."
Him: "I'm sensing some tension. Let's talk about this some more when you've calmed down."
I told him: "Good luck with that." And I hung up. [I must have been calm, because I didn't tell him to shove his phone up his A$$.]
The true beauty of being FIRE'd: I don't need that guy's check to pay my bills.
Lots of awesome stories.This one is sweet!
I got my FU fund (or emergency fund) piled up a few years back, and sooo glad I had it. I'd taken a new job that was 50 (yes, yes, I know...) miles away from home, but the pay was good and it got me out of a job that I'd had for far too long. I had worked with my manager at a previous job, so I knew her style, she knew mine, and we worked well together. She told me I could work from home, there would be some travel but not much, and that I'd be doing what I was good at - Business Analyst stuff.
All of that went to plan until one day in a staff meeting, she announced that she had been promoted to Director of IT and that, among other management changes, I was the ERP Manager. What the WHAT? She hadn't asked me if that's what I wanted, just assumed that it would be OK, because who in their right mind would turn down a management position? I didn't think I'd like it, but was willing to take a chance. This shiny new title came with a (wait for it) 1% raise. Soon after, we all reported to a new person, the brother-in-law of the brand-new CEO (notice a trend? High turnover in C/E/D/M levels?). He was a micromanager to the highest degree and thought you were slacking if you only worked 8 hours.
I suddenly couldn't work from home anymore. I was traveling almost 50% of the time. On top of having an hour+ commute each way, I was a single mom, the proud owner of an aging house, and was trying to keep a relationship with my boyfriend alive. I'd put in my 8 hours in the office, then come home and try to juggle DS's homework, housework, laundry, and cooking, then off to work some more once kiddo was asleep. Our new manager (we called him "Bill" behind his back, our nickname since he was the DBIL of the CEO) would yell if he sent you an email at 11pm and you hadn't responded by the time he woke up in the morning. He would change deadlines at the last minute, would be ridiculously over-involved in little decisions, and drove everyone crazy. On my family vacation, I ended up working over 40 hours in order to meet a deadline that had changed AFTER I left for the vacation.
I'd finally had enough. My (now former) manager (who had quit shortly after "Bill" showed up on the scene) apologized to me for getting me into that situation and encouraged me to get a job I really wanted, not just one that came along. I did, and she gave me a strong recommendation. I had my FU fund, so I decided to take some time off between jobs and only gave one week's notice. I handed in my resignation letter, and the panic began. I received no less than 3 calls in 10 minutes from people frantic to find out why I was leaving. I mentioned all of the indignities. The HR rep that I spoke with got very quiet, and asked if I'd be willing to stay if "Bill" was no longer with the company. It turns out they fired him 5 minutes BEFORE I handed in my resignation, but they weren't ready to make it public. I wasn't the only one who had complained (or quit), and brother-in-law or not, they gave him the boot. I told them no, but that I would be willing to stay the full two weeks instead of the one week I'd put in my resignation letter if they could include the week of missed vacation due to "Bill's" new deadlines in my final payout. They did.
Even though I stayed on the full two weeks, I still had a two week break between jobs. My new job only pays me monthly, and I started right at the end of the pay cycle, so I ended up going almost two months without any income to speak of. I didn't have to touch my FU funds, even better, I was able to stretch that final payout to last me the full time, even with a mortgage and child support payments to make. It was heaven.
I graduated two years later with no debt and an incredibly strong sense of what type of work environment does NOT work for me. The unbelievably valuable life lesson learned? Life is too short to stay in a job that makes you puke from anxiety every morning. That's wasn't FU money. That was Freedom Cash.
The world is full of incompetent crazy people who get hired into management positions. How the hell that happens, I just don't know.
Because most of the sane people either:
1) Don't want the management jobs in the first place and refuse to be promoted into them; or
2) Quickly learn how horrible they are and move back to being a primary contributor as soon as they can; or
3) Go insane themselves; or
4) Die from overwork.
I get so sick the first two weeks I'm there that I collapse and am rushed to the emergency room.
...
In the middle of June one day I get so stressed out that I basically have a complete meltdown at work. I go to my boss, begging for help where I'm told I'm just 'not working hard enough.' I walked out of her office, went in the bathroom and cried for an hour.
...
I begin to cope by literally dropping every task that someone is not asking me for right at that moment, but I'm enough of a stickler that the undone tasks are stressing me out.
Standing up for yourself from the beginning by setting appropriate boundaries and expectations means you never reach an epic "FU, I quit" situation in the first place.
One of them later told me they realized that if the grad student (read: academic slave) could claim her freedom, the rest of them could, too.
Beautiful.
I don't know, personally, for me, they seem to sneak up on you. Gradually they give you more work. And you have "stretch goals". Until one day, ALL your goals are "stretch goals" and they are impossible. It's like they get used to how much you can do, then push you little by little until you break. I was pretty good at the push back when I was younger, and as I got older, I just would do what I wanted.Standing up for yourself from the beginning by setting appropriate boundaries and expectations means you never reach an epic "FU, I quit" situation in the first place.
+1
This exactly. If you're not willing to set boundaries, expect to be pushed until you set them. Sometimes it will mean getting fired, but if you got fired because they have unrealistic expectations, fuck 'em.
Standing up for yourself from the beginning by setting appropriate boundaries and expectations means you never reach an epic "FU, I quit" situation in the first place.
Sold the nursery and property in SoCal and moved back to Washington to try semi retirement. After starting another nursery to feed my Farmers Market habit it was getting into fall so nothing to do out in the greenhouses.
I was driving by a Fred Meyer (Kroger) distribution center and they had the normal sign out for help wanted so I decided I'd try it for the holiday season...
I don't know, personally, for me, they seem to sneak up on you. Gradually they give you more work. And you have "stretch goals". Until one day, ALL your goals are "stretch goals" and they are impossible. It's like they get used to how much you can do, then push you little by little until you break. I was pretty good at the push back when I was younger, and as I got older, I just would do what I wanted.Standing up for yourself from the beginning by setting appropriate boundaries and expectations means you never reach an epic "FU, I quit" situation in the first place.
+1
This exactly. If you're not willing to set boundaries, expect to be pushed until you set them. Sometimes it will mean getting fired, but if you got fired because they have unrealistic expectations, fuck 'em.
I had a position a couple of years ago where I was managing people, and some of them worked nights. I was working 32 hours a week at the time. Through a lot of thought, I agreed to go full time, and negotiated a schedule change with my spouse so that I could overlap with the night guys 2 days a week. Not 10 days after I made the switch, they laid off my entire fucking group.
And not even just that, but as we were walking out of the after-meeting where they discussed the sad reasons for the layoff and how they needed everyone to give "120%!", the company President (whom I'd known for years and worked for at a prior company), said "well, now that you are full time, you can work and give us 120%!"
Fuck you. I mean, my last layoff hadn't even happened yet, the guy was in the meeting! (He was the night guy.) I said "oh, silly, you were already getting 100% when I was at 32 hours, so by definition you'll be getting it!" My spouse told me that it was probably a poor career move (and he was right), but fuck that. Asshole.
Anyway, that's how it happens.
I don't know, personally, for me, they seem to sneak up on you. Gradually they give you more work. And you have "stretch goals". Until one day, ALL your goals are "stretch goals" and they are impossible. It's like they get used to how much you can do, then push you little by little until you break. I was pretty good at the push back when I was younger, and as I got older, I just would do what I wanted.
... but they realized that if they said I had to leave in 2 weeks then I'd miss 3 years of vesting in my 401k which was worth over 9k and "no one would walk away from 9k, he'll have to stay with us for a while longer"...
Some of the Golden handcuff talk got me thinking about one time I left a job 2 weeks short of vesting 9k in 401k match. I had been working a job I really liked with a fantastic team but because our team was so far ahead of schedule compared to the rest of the project, I was asked to do some much less fun stuff for a manager I didn't like as much for 6 months. 6 months came and went and it looked like the new role was going to be extended for another year minimum and likely become permanent. So I started looking and found a new job paying 25k more than I was making doing stuff I'd enjoy with a commute I can do via 20 min on a train instead of 15 miles by car.
I told my immediate manager first who's comment was "you gotta be f-ing kidding me." I offered to stick it out for 6 weeks (very long lead times for hiring defense contractors due to the clearance process so I was trying to be nice) but they realized that if they said I had to leave in 2 weeks then I'd miss 3 years of vesting in my 401k which was worth over 9k and "no one would walk away from 9k, he'll have to stay with us for a while longer". That logic made no sense to me and I was so done with it all at that point I said "just watch me."
It worked out pretty darn well for me too, the new job gave me an additional $5k raise within 6 months and I realized that I could maximize the ESPP program at the new job for another $10k/year risk free on top of my salary (discussing the epic-ly awesome ESPP program with my co-workers definitely deserves a post in the overheard at work thread now that I think about it)
Then one day, I ask my boss again about when I am officially moved to F/T. He tells me "that is not going to happen" and that he is sorry. I ask why, and he blames upper management and some reorganization, but that my hours are not in jeopardy. I flip the fuck out, and call him a corporate lackey, among other things, but somehow I don't get fired. I start coming in late every day. One day the boss asks me to change my schedule to come in at 6AM. I say no. He tells me its not negotiable, I say tough and come in at 8 the next day. I still do not get fired.
My boss asks me one day to do a special project for the company, and I say no, that its not my job. If he wants it done, it will cost him $X.XX dollars per hour more. He is not amused, but unfortunately, I do not get fired since they are super busy and understaffed.
A guy I worked with, was in the firm for 10 years. He wore the same sweater everyday, always brought in his lunch and just did his job, never spoke to anyone voluntarily. He left the firm this summer aged 35 and someone heard he was living in Bali. That sounds like a plan, there's tons of beachs that nobody goes to, you can rent for $200 a month near Ubud. I would be nervous in a pace like that, like to keep my head on my shoulders, and dont like wearing an orange jumpsuit. Anyway, we heard he was now teaching English and living near the beach, and that he had about 1M in index funds stashed away. Yes, he worked in technology. Hey, its always the IT guys!
Anyone see the FU story told in front of an international audience? 33 year old US Open women's tennis winner Flavia Pennetta retires right after accepting the winning trophy and on international TV! Well, she didn't really say FU, but it was a grand retirement speech.
Audio on retiring starts around 1:30:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Lol_lkdto
An article describing her thoughts on retiring:
http://news.yahoo.com/flavia-pennetta-wins-us-open-title-210147552--ten.html;_ylt=A0LEV7kHH_pV0wsAV4MnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEzcnMxdjY1BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM4BHZ0aWQDRkZSQTAxXzEEc2VjA3Ny
Excerpts:
"With this winning today, my life is perfect," Pennetta said.
"I don't know what I like to do, so I have to discover everything," she said. "It's a new life for me.
"Sometimes we are more scared to take the decision because we don't know what we like or what we're going to do after, how is going to be the life.
"But I think it's going to be a pretty good life. I did everything that I expected.
"And more. Much more."
A guy I worked with, was in the firm for 10 years. He wore the same sweater everyday, always brought in his lunch and just did his job, never spoke to anyone voluntarily. He left the firm this summer aged 35 and someone heard he was living in Bali. That sounds like a plan, there's tons of beachs that nobody goes to, you can rent for $200 a month near Ubud. I would be nervous in a pace like that, like to keep my head on my shoulders, and dont like wearing an orange jumpsuit. Anyway, we heard he was now teaching English and living near the beach, and that he had about 1M in index funds stashed away. Yes, he worked in technology. Hey, its always the IT guys!
Standing up for yourself from the beginning by setting appropriate boundaries and expectations means you never reach an epic "FU, I quit" situation in the first place.This exactly. If you're not willing to set boundaries, expect to be pushed until you set them. Sometimes it will mean getting fired, but if you got fired because they have unrealistic expectations, fuck 'em.
If there's anything to be learned on the other side (the F-ee, as it were), it's the truth of the saying "People don't leave companies, they leave managers."
I had a totally non-epic FU money story recently. I'm currently doing a job that I don't care for after having been pushed into the position when they couldn't fill it externally. I was told "You can apply for this job, or you can do it in addition to your old job. If you apply you'll get a raise." I wasn't in a position financially to push back, so I took it, even though I really wanted to tell them no.
It had the potential to be interesting, but after a year I've found it not suited to my interests at all. So about a month ago, I had my annual performance review where we discuss goals. I decided to take a chance and said "I want to move into a different field, I find this one boring." I figured I'd get a bit of resistance, and I did, but eventually I managed to get them to agree to let me start training in the new field. I made it clear that I didn't really want to leave the organization, but would if I kept being pigeonholed in the area I don't like.
I have already had some discussions with the managers in the new area and they're looking for someone, so there's a good chance that I'll be moving to that area in the next few months.
A couple of years ago, I would have just kept my head down, and done the thing I hate in order to preserve my job and the fully over-allocated paycheque that it provides. Now, I'm comfortable enough with the stash to take a few risks.
So it's nothing like some of these amazing stories, but I'm pretty happy about it.
Perfect example of the subtle use of FU money: my husband is on the phone with his boss as I type. Apparently they want to change his job description to require availability outside of business hours (basically be available from 6am to 11pm, every day)
We have a family, and kids, and he's a good dad who values actually being present for his kids for dinner and evenings and the like, and we just built a house so our 'stash isn't as good as it could be but, y'know what? It ain't bad. Worst-case scenario? My salary (at 4 days/week), plus unemployment for him, STILL gives us enough to maintain our current quality of life and add to our 'stash. (If we were on my salary alone, we'd need an extra 600$/month to make ends meet... which, let's face it, basic consulting work from either of us would cover, or an under-the-table farm job, which is something he enjoys...)
Basically: we don't need the money badly enough to sacrifice family time and time with our kid. So: it's not happening.
The advantage of FU money isn't in saying FU, it's in being able to walk into that meeting and suggest alternative options, instead of feeling like you need to keep your head down and swallow sh*t to keep the job you feel like you desperately need...
Maybe it exists already, but if not, maybe we need an online forum where former employees can post evaluations of companies they have worked for. If many former workers gave a company/manager a bad recommendation, people would stop applying for jobs at that company, the company would be forced to raise wages and/or improve working conditions, or else nobody would apply to work for them anymore...
I have already had some discussions with the managers in the new area and they're looking for someone, so there's a good chance that I'll be moving to that area in the next few months.
Congratulations!
I have already had some discussions with the managers in the new area and they're looking for someone, so there's a good chance that I'll be moving to that area in the next few months.
Congratulations!
Thanks! Not two hours after writing that I got an offer letter for the new position. It's been a good day and it's not even lunch!
My question is, why don't companies have to worry about getting a good recommendation from their former employees just as much as employees worry about what their former employers will say about them? Maybe it exists already, but if not, maybe we need an online forum where former employees can post evaluations of companies they have worked for. If many former workers gave a company/manager a bad recommendation, people would stop applying for jobs at that company, the company would be forced to raise wages and/or improve working conditions, or else nobody would apply to work for them anymore...
Actually, when people are escorted away from the workplace after giving notice, it's usually because of morale, safety, securing company assets, ensuring the employee doesn't take proprietary info or customer lists, or just generally keeping someone who is going off to greener pastures from telling the other employees how great life on the outside will be.
My question is, why don't companies have to worry about getting a good recommendation from their former employees just as much as employees worry about what their former employers will say about them? Maybe it exists already, but if not, maybe we need an online forum where former employees can post evaluations of companies they have worked for. If many former workers gave a company/manager a bad recommendation, people would stop applying for jobs at that company, the company would be forced to raise wages and/or improve working conditions, or else nobody would apply to work for them anymore...
Actually, when people are escorted away from the workplace after giving notice, it's usually because of morale, safety, securing company assets, ensuring the employee doesn't take proprietary info or customer lists, or just generally keeping someone who is going off to greener pastures from telling the other employees how great life on the outside will be.
My question is, why don't companies have to worry about getting a good recommendation from their former employees just as much as employees worry about what their former employers will say about them? Maybe it exists already, but if not, maybe we need an online forum where former employees can post evaluations of companies they have worked for. If many former workers gave a company/manager a bad recommendation, people would stop applying for jobs at that company, the company would be forced to raise wages and/or improve working conditions, or else nobody would apply to work for them anymore...
But that doesn't mean the employee who was walked out didn't get two weeks of pay. . They almost always do and in every company I've ever worked in, we just say, thanks for the notice, you'll stay on the books for the remainder of your time, but don't bother coming into the office. It's just not productive to have that situation in the office in some cases.
I think I have the opposite of one-more-year (perhaps this should be in the MM people problems)
Love the job, love the technical challenges but in a meeting today discussing the next 3-5 years of growth projections and the $Bn valuation they are busy dreaming about all I can think of is; I don't care - I can leave today and live like a grad student, I can do 2more years and live comfortably for ever. I could probably leave sooner if I could persuade my wife that we can live off savings.
I think I have the opposite of one-more-year (perhaps this should be in the MM people problems)
Love the job, love the technical challenges but in a meeting today discussing the next 3-5 years of growth projections and the $Bn valuation they are busy dreaming about all I can think of is; I don't care - I can leave today and live like a grad student, I can do 2more years and live comfortably for ever. I could probably leave sooner if I could persuade my wife that we can live off savings.
I feel like as soon as you start feeling either "one more year" or what you are describing, you need to put in a hard line on 3 dates:
Date 1: The date that you can live in an efficiency apartment forever
Date 2: The date that you can keep up your current lifestyle without any changes
Date 3: The date that you can improve your current lifestyle.
Aim to retire at Date 2. If you miss it, when you hit date 3, you're out no matter what.
And I'm not sure exactly how, but Glassdoor can be manipulated by the company as well. My former (toxic) workplace has pretty high ratings due to a high percentage of what, to someone who has worked there, are obviously fake positive reviews. Especially telling is the fact that a genuine, bad review gets posted, and then shortly thereafter a whole bunch of glowing reviews magically get posted within about a week. I have not bothered to review the company for this reason. They are I'm sure trying to protect their image as they are always hiring a ton (with growth plus massive turnover, they have to be!) and also have been getting their story out in the press a lot, wouldn't do to have it so easy to search for reviews that say how awful it is to work there.Is their stock ticker AMZN? lol
I think I have the opposite of one-more-year (perhaps this should be in the MM people problems)
Love the job, love the technical challenges but in a meeting today discussing the next 3-5 years of growth projections and the $Bn valuation they are busy dreaming about all I can think of is; I don't care - I can leave today and live like a grad student, I can do 2more years and live comfortably for ever. I could probably leave sooner if I could persuade my wife that we can live off savings.
I feel like as soon as you start feeling either "one more year" or what you are describing, you need to put in a hard line on 3 dates:
Date 1: The date that you can live in an efficiency apartment forever
Date 2: The date that you can keep up your current lifestyle without any changes
Date 3: The date that you can improve your current lifestyle.
Aim to retire at Date 2. If you miss it, when you hit date 3, you're out no matter what.
mtn, the trap with this is that #3 is open ended. How much "improvement" is enough? An extra $10/month, an extra $1,000, more?
I think I have the opposite of one-more-year (perhaps this should be in the MM people problems)nbs - I'm in the same boat. Got new people with some really great energy and ideas, but hey, guess what - I'm gone come 4/16/16. No one knows this yet though so it can feel odd when they talk about giving me a promotion and what my role will be.
Love the job, love the technical challenges but in a meeting today discussing the next 3-5 years of growth projections and the $Bn valuation they are busy dreaming about all I can think of is; I don't care - I can leave today and live like a grad student, I can do 2more years and live comfortably for ever. I could probably leave sooner if I could persuade my wife that we can live off savings.
I think I have the opposite of one-more-year (perhaps this should be in the MM people problems)
Love the job, love the technical challenges but in a meeting today discussing the next 3-5 years of growth projections and the $Bn valuation they are busy dreaming about all I can think of is; I don't care - I can leave today and live like a grad student, I can do 2more years and live comfortably for ever. I could probably leave sooner if I could persuade my wife that we can live off savings.
I feel like as soon as you start feeling either "one more year" or what you are describing, you need to put in a hard line on 3 dates:
Date 1: The date that you can live in an efficiency apartment forever
Date 2: The date that you can keep up your current lifestyle without any changes
Date 3: The date that you can improve your current lifestyle.
Aim to retire at Date 2. If you miss it, when you hit date 3, you're out no matter what.
mtn, the trap with this is that #3 is open ended. How much "improvement" is enough? An extra $10/month, an extra $1,000, more?
Open ended, yeah, but probably easily determined for most people.
For me, it is the amount to own/buy a small house or apartment in Chicagoland and a vacation house in the UP, 4 trips every year, a fun car, a fishing boat, speed boat, and maybe 20 rounds of golf a year. How much is necessary for that? Depending on the housing situation with the rent/owning/buying, probably about $100-$150k a year.
If this thread isn't enough for you - http://www.askamanager.org/2015/09/tell-us-your-straw-that-broke-the-camels-back-moment-with-your-job.html#comments has a lot of comments now. Not quite from the FU money perspective, but still a fair amount of epic FU stories.
I've never had FU money in my life, because I'm a dumbass. I've only ever managed to accumulate anything by pushing money to places where I can't touch it, as much as possible. Even after a year and a half reading here, and saving tons, my savings "strategy" pretty much amounts to keeping myself cash-poor so I don't have to really become a badass about spending.I haven't had to say FU either and I am right there with you. Having cash to me means I did something wrong. Gotta shove money in all the tax advantage holes.
I gather that for many people, paying off all consumer debt and building up a cash cushion is an early baby step on the road to FIRE. For me, investment had to come first and those two things will come last.
If this thread isn't enough for you - http://www.askamanager.org/2015/09/tell-us-your-straw-that-broke-the-camels-back-moment-with-your-job.html#comments has a lot of comments now. Not quite from the FU money perspective, but still a fair amount of epic FU stories.
Probably not the intended result, but after reading a few dozen of those, I'm just amazed by how lucky I am to have the job I do, and wonder why I would ever want to leave. HahahaIf this thread isn't enough for you - http://www.askamanager.org/2015/09/tell-us-your-straw-that-broke-the-camels-back-moment-with-your-job.html#comments has a lot of comments now. Not quite from the FU money perspective, but still a fair amount of epic FU stories.
Wow. That site offers so many awful employee-oppression / stupid rule stories. OMG, employees have take so much shit, and have to bear it with a fake smile whilst withering inside. I'm not sorry to be through with that BS! Ugh!
my FU story: stupidly, I invested well in index funds, not so well in husbands. When I went part time for child rearing, he decided we will put our 403B money in his acct and try to live off my tiny salary (yes, I know, you don't have to say it, I was 26 and had milk brain). Fast forward, very bad man, I left. His lawyer fought mine so hard on that 403B money, mine saying I should get what I would've had had I not been part-time. They argued his account, his money. My lawyer said expect to get maybe 20k if lucky. The judge reads it, interprets it his own way from our divorce decree and I got 86k. I looked at my lawyer, she was shocked.
His attorney demanded to see the math, the divorce decree was correct, this was my right and he had agreed to it and must follow it. It was all money I had earned that he transferred to his account or money I would've contributed when working full time plus interest. Ex stood up slammed his chair and stomped out of the courtroom, only to be led back in by the bailiff, judge said, "you get up, when I tell you to get up. Any more nonsense and you will be cited for contempt of court and spend a night in jail." Then he was reading my attorney's response to the petition again, in which she told of several times over the course of our marriage, my ex forged my signature on 403b docs during market turn downs, when he would move everything to cash. I happened to find out accidentally. The judge said, "you forged your wife's signature to gain control of her 403b without telling her? How many times? 1? 3? 10? Guess how many are legal-ZERO! This is disgusting! I am standing up now, you may as well, I am leaving and then you may leave. We clear here?"
money is the only way to hurt my ex, even when it's me taking back my money. He had been humiliated in court. He got caught doing illegal things, he never thought he would lose, for the first and last time, I finally for once "got him". Best FU money story in my book.
A few years ago the company I was working for was under some seriously hard times financially. There was a layoff coming, a fairly significant portion of the company. I was safe for various reasons (technical lead, seniority, expertise, that kind of stuff), but we had a new hire on the team who had relocated from across the country who was going to be let go. I spoke to my manager and volunteered to be laid off instead. He's still working there, last I heard.
As a bonus, a few months later, I ended up landing a dream job at 3x my old salary.
A few years ago the company I was working for was under some seriously hard times financially. There was a layoff coming, a fairly significant portion of the company. I was safe for various reasons (technical lead, seniority, expertise, that kind of stuff), but we had a new hire on the team who had relocated from across the country who was going to be let go. I spoke to my manager and volunteered to be laid off instead. He's still working there, last I heard.
As a bonus, a few months later, I ended up landing a dream job at 3x my old salary.
A few years ago the company I was working for was under some seriously hard times financially. There was a layoff coming, a fairly significant portion of the company. I was safe for various reasons (technical lead, seniority, expertise, that kind of stuff), but we had a new hire on the team who had relocated from across the country who was going to be let go. I spoke to my manager and volunteered to be laid off instead. He's still working there, last I heard.
As a bonus, a few months later, I ended up landing a dream job at 3x my old salary.
A few years ago the company I was working for was under some seriously hard times financially. There was a layoff coming, a fairly significant portion of the company. I was safe for various reasons (technical lead, seniority, expertise, that kind of stuff), but we had a new hire on the team who had relocated from across the country who was going to be let go. I spoke to my manager and volunteered to be laid off instead. He's still working there, last I heard.
As a bonus, a few months later, I ended up landing a dream job at 3x my old salary.
Probably not the intended result, but after reading a few dozen of those, I'm just amazed by how lucky I am to have the job I do, and wonder why I would ever want to leave. HahahaIf this thread isn't enough for you - http://www.askamanager.org/2015/09/tell-us-your-straw-that-broke-the-camels-back-moment-with-your-job.html#comments has a lot of comments now. Not quite from the FU money perspective, but still a fair amount of epic FU stories.
Wow. That site offers so many awful employee-oppression / stupid rule stories. OMG, employees have take so much shit, and have to bear it with a fake smile whilst withering inside. I'm not sorry to be through with that BS! Ugh!
Well, I have had the best job in the world for the past 10 years, but the writing is on the wall. The parent company is selling off my division to a competitor, and management has already started acting like this is a season of Survivor. Everyone is just waiting to see who gets voted off the island this week. I'm not management, per se, so I think it will be a while before the new bosses get to cutting in my section; but I still want to be ready in case I need to pull a golden parachute of my own making. Lord knows they aren't going to offer one.Ooh. Keep your eyes open and be ready for anything!
I have heard some epic ones from burnt out Wall Streeters that were used and abused. I think my favorite is a tossup between the guy who put a guppy in every radiator on the floor before he left (stinks out loud whenever the heat goes up) and the dude who dropped a "steamer" in his desk drawer, broke the key off in the lock, and marched out, never to be seen again.
I have heard some epic ones from burnt out Wall Streeters that were used and abused. I think my favorite is a tossup between the guy who put a guppy in every radiator on the floor before he left (stinks out loud whenever the heat goes up) and the dude who dropped a "steamer" in his desk drawer, broke the key off in the lock, and marched out, never to be seen again.
Do you happen to have a link to that? That would keep me entertained for hours.
I told myself: why would I work so much if there's no benefit? So I decreased my 8 hour workday to 4-5. I heavily concentrated solely on my targets, and didn't give a crap about anything else. I was always smiling and showed a positive, proactive, friendly attitude (while I was thinking FU all). The outcome: I got a reward of excellence, and next year suddenly my work was "exceptional". My boss almost fell in love with me, and I slowly became indispensable.
My story is having FU money provided a lever that I was able to use to get a 20% raise...
The only reason I was able to pull off this gambit is because of my FU stash. I doubt any of my peers would have been able to do this without having another job lined up. As a group, they generally have affinities for F250's, vacation cottages and oversized surburban houses on large lots.
Depending on what the stock market does and my happiness with my job at the time - I should be giving my final, non-negotiable(!) notice in 2-6 years.
This story makes me wonder if bosses take note of which of the underlings are stretched and have little leverage when they are thinking about who will get the real sh*t assignments. Is management that forward thinking?
My story is having FU money provided a lever that I was able to use to get a 20% raise...This story makes me wonder if bosses take note of which of the underlings are stretched and have little leverage when they are thinking about who will get the real sh*t assignments. Is management that forward thinking?
....
This story makes me wonder if bosses take note of which of the underlings are stretched and have little leverage when they are thinking about who will get the real sh*t assignments. Is management that forward thinking?
Many do. A very kind and awesome boss I had once noted that I seemed to get anxious easily when clients got upset. When I responded that it made me worry about my job, he asked if I had stashed much away? His concern was genuine and I never saw him try to take advantage of someone, but if he makes the connection between job anxiety and financial security, you can bet his more machiavellian counterparts do as well.
I've seen this too, and it worked both ways; I had a job once where my less-experienced coworker kept getting assigned to overtime shifts even after I had repeatedly requested more overtime. When I confronted the manager they told me that the coworker had children, and so needed the money more than I did...wtf?My story is having FU money provided a lever that I was able to use to get a 20% raise...
The only reason I was able to pull off this gambit is because of my FU stash. I doubt any of my peers would have been able to do this without having another job lined up. As a group, they generally have affinities for F250's, vacation cottages and oversized surburban houses on large lots.
Depending on what the stock market does and my happiness with my job at the time - I should be giving my final, non-negotiable(!) notice in 2-6 years.
This story makes me wonder if bosses take note of which of the underlings are stretched and have little leverage when they are thinking about who will get the real sh*t assignments. Is management that forward thinking?
I've seen this too, and it worked both ways; I had a job once where my less-experienced coworker kept getting assigned to overtime shifts even after I had repeatedly requested more overtime. When I confronted the manager they told me that the coworker had children, and so needed the money more than I did...wtf?
I taught one year of school when I was fresh out of college. It was one of the worst periods of my life as I was young, inexperienced, our state school systems sucks and I had 4 different principals in 6 months. I lived at home that year and saved all my money. At the end of the year I quit to travel the world for 3 months. My teacher friends were incredulous--I only needed one more year for "tenure"!
I love teaching and I substitute quite a bit. I've been a sub for for 5 years now. Every year I get asked to teach full-time and because of my FU money, I don't even hesitate saying NO. I love being in the classroom, teaching the kids, and walking away every day from the drama of working for the Department of Education in the People's Republic of Hawaii. I also only sub for teachers I like and respect and who leave me great sub plans.
FU money allows me to continue to love to teach!
Have another (small) epic FU story, along the lines of FU money not having to be about quitting, but just standing strong. I was pulled into the CEOs office by my boss, which peaked my interest, as that never happens. Apparently, our company is going to be moving the office across the country, and as I'm the head IT person, I was one of the first told since I'll need to help plan and coordinate things. Relocation assistance will be offered to everyone. So in front of the CEO my boss asks if I'd be interested in moving to X location. I just say 'No.' We look at each other for a while as he's not sure what to say. 'Why not? Nice city, nice area, etc etc'. 'No thanks'. Then he finally says 'well, telecommuting might also be an option for you'. 'Yea, thought that might be the case' (in my head, not out loud). The CEO and CFO both have families in school here, I know they're sure as hell not moving across the country. The place we're moving to is actually a really good location, I wouldn't mind moving there at all, but I was willing to call their bluff in order to not box myself. And I have been thinking about finding another job that would let me telecommute so I can live anywhere, or be nomadic, so this might work out even better.
... which peaked my interest...
Nice! By the way, it's 'piqued', not 'peaked'.
Have another (small) epic FU story, along the lines of FU money not having to be about quitting, but just standing strong. I was pulled into the CEOs office by my boss, which peaked my interest, as that never happens. Apparently, our company is going to be moving the office across the country, and as I'm the head IT person, I was one of the first told since I'll need to help plan and coordinate things. Relocation assistance will be offered to everyone. So in front of the CEO my boss asks if I'd be interested in moving to X location. I just say 'No.' We look at each other for a while as he's not sure what to say. 'Why not? Nice city, nice area, etc etc'. 'No thanks'. Then he finally says 'well, telecommuting might also be an option for you'. 'Yea, thought that might be the case' (in my head, not out loud). The CEO and CFO both have families in school here, I know they're sure as hell not moving across the country. The place we're moving to is actually a really good location, I wouldn't mind moving there at all, but I was willing to call their bluff in order to not box myself. And I have been thinking about finding another job that would let me telecommute so I can live anywhere, or be nomadic, so this might work out even better.
I have read this thread over the course of two days and a fire has been lit. I am more determined than ever to stash away my own FU money because you never know what could happen.What about changing you tax w/h now and not wait until tax time for the money
I just need to pay these stupid CCs off first, but with the help of my tax refund coming up I will hopefully be CC-debt free by April or May of 2016! Then I can really start building that stash and paying down some student loans.
I have read this thread over the course of two days and a fire has been lit. I am more determined than ever to stash away my own FU money because you never know what could happen.Agreed you should pull ahead paying the CC. If due a refund, you can change your exemptions amount upward and each is worth roughly $50 a month. So, change from 1 to 9 and you'll get an extra $400 a month in your paycheck that you can use to pay the credit cards down now. In January, adjust exemptions to cover $600 in taxes per exemption. For example, if you are at 1, and will get $1900 back, change to 4 for the year. You'll get your money in each paycheck, about $150 extra a month, and won't give the government an interest free loan.
I just need to pay these stupid CCs off first, but with the help of my tax refund coming up I will hopefully be CC-debt free by April or May of 2016! Then I can really start building that stash and paying down some student loans.
Agreed you should pull ahead paying the CC. If due a refund, you can change your exemptions amount upward and each is worth roughly $50 a month.
You are correct. Was a few years ago when I did it.Agreed you should pull ahead paying the CC. If due a refund, you can change your exemptions amount upward and each is worth roughly $50 a month.
Wouldn't it only be $50/month if you're in the 15% tax bracket? If you're in a higher tax bracket each allowance you claim will reduce your withheld tax more.
I know its stupid to do it, but I don't want to change it. For one, I'm always afraid that I won't have enough withheld and I'll owe the government money. Second, I'm afraid to being tempted to blow that extra money instead of saving it or using it to pay off debt. I just don't trust myself. If I have a big chunk of money to put on a bill all at once it's more satisfying to me than just chipping away at it. I know I should facepunch myself for that but that's how I am.I respect that decision. Better to avoid any temptation and guarantee the CCs get paid down.
I know its stupid to do it, but I don't want to change it. For one, I'm always afraid that I won't have enough withheld and I'll owe the government money. Second, I'm afraid to being tempted to blow that extra money instead of saving it or using it to pay off debt. I just don't trust myself. If I have a big chunk of money to put on a bill all at once it's more satisfying to me than just chipping away at it. I know I should facepunch myself for that but that's how I am.I respect that decision. Better to avoid any temptation and guarantee the CCs get paid down.
Sent from a device that no longer gets free advertising.
Have another (small) epic FU story, along the lines of FU money not having to be about quitting, but just standing strong. I was pulled into the CEOs office by my boss, which peaked my interest, as that never happens. Apparently, our company is going to be moving the office across the country, and as I'm the head IT person, I was one of the first told since I'll need to help plan and coordinate things. Relocation assistance will be offered to everyone. So in front of the CEO my boss asks if I'd be interested in moving to X location. I just say 'No.' We look at each other for a while as he's not sure what to say. 'Why not? Nice city, nice area, etc etc'. 'No thanks'. Then he finally says 'well, telecommuting might also be an option for you'. 'Yea, thought that might be the case' (in my head, not out loud). The CEO and CFO both have families in school here, I know they're sure as hell not moving across the country. The place we're moving to is actually a really good location, I wouldn't mind moving there at all, but I was willing to call their bluff in order to not box myself. And I have been thinking about finding another job that would let me telecommute so I can live anywhere, or be nomadic, so this might work out even better.This was nice.
I have seen countless employees leave in a few different companies, but Bob is the first to disappear into thin air. I'd like to think he had a stash but no one will ever know!
It's not FU money related, but similar:
When my friends and I were all 16-20 we all got a job at a new fast food store. There were 12 of us that included all positions from server up to assistant manager, it was great times and we rode into work together and had a blast.
They screwed over one of our friends on pay and refused to even look at it, so we all walked out. They had to close that location down for almost a week over $30 and a 15 minute review to find the error.
They screwed over one of our friends on pay and refused to even look at it, so we all walked out. They had to close that location down for almost a week over $30 and a 15 minute review to find the error.
If he moves me anyway, when I resign next spring, I will tell him that it was because he moved my office just to mess with him...
Not quite epic, but the new boss wants to move everyone's offices around. Everyone else has been "yes men" trying to curry favor. I told him no thanks! If he moves me anyway, when I resign next spring, I will tell him that it was because he moved my office just to mess with him...
Not quite epic, but the new boss wants to move everyone's offices around. Everyone else has been "yes men" trying to curry favor. I told him no thanks! If he moves me anyway, when I resign next spring, I will tell him that it was because he moved my office just to mess with him...
That will be delicious.
Not quite epic, but the new boss wants to move everyone's offices around. Everyone else has been "yes men" trying to curry favor. I told him no thanks! If he moves me anyway, when I resign next spring, I will tell him that it was because he moved my office just to mess with him...
That will be delicious.
I am still surprised when bosses come up with these ideas, they are usually trivial kind of PITA events, but they are disruptive, take time, and add no value (usually). But they are astonished (!!!) if you speak up. It is the kind of thing that gets you labelled...
Not quite epic, but the new boss wants to move everyone's offices around. Everyone else has been "yes men" trying to curry favor. I told him no thanks! If he moves me anyway, when I resign next spring, I will tell him that it was because he moved my office just to mess with him...
That will be delicious.
I am still surprised when bosses come up with these ideas, they are usually trivial kind of PITA events, but they are disruptive, take time, and add no value (usually). But they are astonished (!!!) if you speak up. It is the kind of thing that gets you labelled...
Sweet. I like labels! I am always telling my wife to label the bags of meat before the go in the freezer!
Not quite epic, but the new boss wants to move everyone's offices around. Everyone else has been "yes men" trying to curry favor. I told him no thanks! If he moves me anyway, when I resign next spring, I will tell him that it was because he moved my office just to mess with him...
That will be delicious.
I am still surprised when bosses come up with these ideas, they are usually trivial kind of PITA events, but they are disruptive, take time, and add no value (usually). But they are astonished (!!!) if you speak up. It is the kind of thing that gets you labelled...
Fun as it sounds, no need to unnecessarily burn bridges.
Today Mr. Mandalay reminded me of how I left my job prior to this one.this was pretty awesome, even for someone who went to VA tech
I was in upper echelon customer service for an entertainment company. I loved the job, I loved my supervisor, and my coworkers were awesome. However, my supervisor was involved in a very serious car accident and wouldn't be back for months while he was recuperating. The powers that be did a little shuffling, and so Felicia came to preside over the group.
Felicia was the living embodiment of Dolores Umbridge. She was all smiles and sweet voice, but she remains the nastiest person it's ever been my misfortune to know. My group had heard horror stories about her for ages, and now we started to live them. She wrote people up for the stupidest shit. How stupid? Try coming back from lunch 75 SECONDS late (yes, she counted). Laughing while talking with customers ("you really must be more professional, dear"--this was me BTW). She wrote one woman up for combing her hair at her desk. And then of course the "dear." There were regular outbursts of "Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!" coming over her cube wall. And God, she nitpicked EVERYTHING, but management backed her up without question. After roughly a month I didn't know whether I was going to go suicidal or homicidal, even though unlike my coworkers I'd only been written up once. After Mr. Mandalay heard me coming in from work, slamming my purse on the counter and screaming "GAAAAAH FUCKING FELICIA!!!!" for the twentieth time he said over dinner "if you're that fucking miserable, quit. We've got enough saved, we'll be okay for a while."
I was still nervous, so I vowed to myself that Felicia would have to do something heinous before I'd pull the trigger. I only had to wait three days. Felicia wrote me up for "dressing inappropriately." This was a call center, so we could wear what we wanted as long as it was clean and in good taste. I am the most conservative dresser on the planet. The "inappropriate" garment in question was a University of Virginia sweatshirt.
Why did Felicia find it offensive?
She went to Virginia Tech.
I am TOTALLY not kidding.
I stood up, ripped up the form and said "I quit."
"Dear, I don't think you can afford to quit," Felicia said.
I still remember beaming and saying "Actually, Felicia, I can" and the stunned look on her face as I left her cube.
I heard later on that Felicia ended up getting transferred to the Kansas City branch of the company. I wonder how many people she wrote up for wearing Jayhawks shirts ...
Worked as a mid-level manager at a Federal agency. Organization did poorly on an inspection and inspectors pointed at a number of poor decisions by our Director-level leadership as the root cause. Numerous subordinates brought the exact same issues to them prior to the inspection but the Directors always knew better. They had a habit of taking credit for success and pushing blame for failures to others and were stressful people to work for, so I had already been looking at my options and planning an exit strategy.
Get called into a private meeting with one of the Directors who asked me to write a letter to HR saying it was my fault we did poorly on the inspection and request a demotion to a lower graded position because I was in over my head. I declined. He said that if I didn't then I would be let go. I reminded him that I passed my probationary period and they had to prove cause to fire me (after the 1 year probationary period, you're supposed to have job protection). The Director said that he had already talked to HR, that they can play paperwork games and let me go as a non-disciplinary action that would bypass the protections I'm supposed to get (unethical but not surprising from these people). I told him to go ahead and do that.
He was like, "No, you don't understand, we want to keep you. You can keep doing the same stuff you are now but at the lower position. In a couple years we can promote you back."
I said, yes, I understand that and, no, I will not write that letter to HR. That I'd rather get let go than keep working for him. Needless to say, he wasn't happy.
They do the non-disciplinary action and give me 30-day notice of termination. Then they take away all of my job duties and move me into, essentially, a converted closet to work out of for the last 30 days. I don't argue the move and use the 30 days to finish a bunch of coursework that had built up in a correspondence course I was taking. Then HR notifies me that they will not give me the (mediocre) severance payment because I was being let go for poor performance. I remind them that it was their choice to use the "non-disciplinary" method to let me go and, if they use that method, I get the severance. I mentioned a few of the methods I could escalate the issue (congressional complaint, etc) and they quietly gave me the severance.
This is where the planning and exit strategy came into play. Thanks to the non-disciplinary type of termination, I qualified for unemployment. Thanks to qualifying for unemployment, I could sell the bank-owned foreclosure I had bought and fixed up a year prior for $120k profit and not pay taxes (usually you have to live in the property for 2 years to get the profit tax free). I had also already lined up a place I could live for an extended period rent-free.
So, in the end, I got $120k real estate profit tax-free. I chilled out on unemployment for a bit over a year (this was during the downturn and I think unemployment lasted for 99 weeks or so), relaxed, traveled a bit, hung out with friends and played lots of video games. I applied for jobs but only stuff that paid well and looked interesting, I was pretty picky. Between unemployment and passive income, I was actually cash positive by about $3.5k/month. A bit after a year one of the interesting jobs panned out and I've been doing that ever since. Unhappy about all the shenanigans that happened but very happy of the line of action I took and being able to say FU.
When they called in need of help after I'd left, I told them it'd cost an amount more than 3x what I made as a salaried employee. They balked and freaked out. I wished them luck. They agreed to my asking price.
Today Mr. Mandalay reminded me of how I left my job prior to this one.
I was in upper echelon customer service for an entertainment company. I loved the job, I loved my supervisor, and my coworkers were awesome. However, my supervisor was involved in a very serious car accident and wouldn't be back for months while he was recuperating. The powers that be did a little shuffling, and so Felicia came to preside over the group.
Felicia was the living embodiment of Dolores Umbridge. She was all smiles and sweet voice, but she remains the nastiest person it's ever been my misfortune to know. My group had heard horror stories about her for ages, and now we started to live them. She wrote people up for the stupidest shit. How stupid? Try coming back from lunch 75 SECONDS late (yes, she counted). Laughing while talking with customers ("you really must be more professional, dear"--this was me BTW). She wrote one woman up for combing her hair at her desk. And then of course the "dear." There were regular outbursts of "Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!" coming over her cube wall. And God, she nitpicked EVERYTHING, but management backed her up without question. After roughly a month I didn't know whether I was going to go suicidal or homicidal, even though unlike my coworkers I'd only been written up once. After Mr. Mandalay heard me coming in from work, slamming my purse on the counter and screaming "GAAAAAH FUCKING FELICIA!!!!" for the twentieth time he said over dinner "if you're that fucking miserable, quit. We've got enough saved, we'll be okay for a while."
I was still nervous, so I vowed to myself that Felicia would have to do something heinous before I'd pull the trigger. I only had to wait three days. Felicia wrote me up for "dressing inappropriately." This was a call center, so we could wear what we wanted as long as it was clean and in good taste. I am the most conservative dresser on the planet. The "inappropriate" garment in question was a University of Virginia sweatshirt.
Why did Felicia find it offensive?
She went to Virginia Tech.
I am TOTALLY not kidding.
I stood up, ripped up the form and said "I quit."
"Dear, I don't think you can afford to quit," Felicia said.
I still remember beaming and saying "Actually, Felicia, I can" and the stunned look on her face as I left her cube.
I heard later on that Felicia ended up getting transferred to the Kansas City branch of the company. I wonder how many people she wrote up for wearing Jayhawks shirts ...
Haven't seen this movie... but saw the clip on Reddit and immediately thought of this thread... The numbers are not mustachian, but still....
http://youtu.be/xdfeXqHFmPI
(NSFW: Language....sorry if a repost)
- the main grader wouldn't pass me because he attended Va Tech and I attended UVA.That must be a real problem for them, if you want the best scientists and engineers in the world working on your project but half went to VaT and half went to UVA and you can only pick one.
- the main grader wouldn't pass me because he attended Va Tech and I attended UVA.That must be a real problem for them, if you want the best scientists and engineers in the world working on your project but half went to VaT and half went to UVA and you can only pick one.
Presumably you have to hope that the second raters who went to Cambridge/MIT/Caltech will happily work with those losers who only got into Oxford/Harvard/Stanford.
- the main grader wouldn't pass me because he attended Va Tech and I attended UVA.That must be a real problem for them, if you want the best scientists and engineers in the world working on your project but half went to VaT and half went to UVA and you can only pick one.
Presumably you have to hope that the second raters who went to Cambridge/MIT/Caltech will happily work with those losers who only got into Oxford/Harvard/Stanford.
My husband went to two traditionally rival universities for undergrad and postgrad. It fucks with your mind. (We met during undergrad. The first university was clearly better.)
Haven't seen this movie... but saw the clip on Reddit and immediately thought of this thread... The numbers are not mustachian, but still....
http://youtu.be/xdfeXqHFmPI
(NSFW: Language....sorry if a repost)
When dealing with VT football fans, I've had some success with pretending to not know what American football is. Then it's no fun to talk about it :)
I don't give a rat's ass about collegiate or professional sports. They could disappear from the face of the earth and I wouldn't notice if not for all the unhappy whining about it.
So, if they start talking about football I'll ask a question like, "Football? That's the big orange ball, isn't it?"
It really stops them cold and they don't bother me about this stuff anymore.
Well, most of them don't. If they are really obnoxious about it, I'll make a comment like "Well, my sense of self worth isn't attached to how well a bunch of strangers carry a piece of dead pig across a field."
That's a real conversation stopper.
I love messing with people this way. When a team is referenced, asking if it's the game where they have to bounce a lot, or the one with the weirdly shaped ball, is fun too.
I don't give a rat's ass about collegiate or professional sports. They could disappear from the face of the earth and I wouldn't notice if not for all the unhappy whining about it.
Despite not caring one whit, I can't help but have learned many of the names of the different teams and (approximately) which season is which sport, purely by osmosis.
So, if they start talking about football I'll ask a question like, "Football? That's the big orange ball, isn't it?"
It really stops them cold and they don't bother me about this stuff anymore.
Well, most of them don't. If they are really obnoxious about it, I'll make a comment like "Well, my sense of self worth isn't attached to how well a bunch of strangers carry a piece of dead pig across a field."
That's a real conversation stopper.
When dealing with VT football fans, I've had some success with pretending to not know what American football is. Then it's no fun to talk about it :)
I don't give a rat's ass about collegiate or professional sports. They could disappear from the face of the earth and I wouldn't notice if not for all the unhappy whining about it.
Despite not caring one whit, I can't help but have learned many of the names of the different teams and (approximately) which season is which sport, purely by osmosis.
So, if they start talking about football I'll ask a question like, "Football? That's the big orange ball, isn't it?"
It really stops them cold and they don't bother me about this stuff anymore.
Well, most of them don't. If they are really obnoxious about it, I'll make a comment like "Well, my sense of self worth isn't attached to how well a bunch of strangers carry a piece of dead pig across a field."
That's a real conversation stopper.
+1, sons too. I'm incensed at the thought that the NFL runs tax free.
When dealing with VT football fans, I've had some success with pretending to not know what American football is. Then it's no fun to talk about it :)
I don't give a rat's ass about collegiate or professional sports. They could disappear from the face of the earth and I wouldn't notice if not for all the unhappy whining about it.
Despite not caring one whit, I can't help but have learned many of the names of the different teams and (approximately) which season is which sport, purely by osmosis.
So, if they start talking about football I'll ask a question like, "Football? That's the big orange ball, isn't it?"
It really stops them cold and they don't bother me about this stuff anymore.
Well, most of them don't. If they are really obnoxious about it, I'll make a comment like "Well, my sense of self worth isn't attached to how well a bunch of strangers carry a piece of dead pig across a field."
That's a real conversation stopper.
A real annoyance huh? Sounds like fun poking holes in other people's enjoyment. Must be a blast hanging out with you.
If he moves me anyway, when I resign next spring, I will tell him that it was because he moved my office just to mess with him...
Nice. made me chuckle.
If he moves me anyway, when I resign next spring, I will tell him that it was because he moved my office just to mess with him...
Nice. made me chuckle.
Not an FU story but on a similar theme when I quit the last job I had I told them it was because they hired another British person (I live in the US). I'd been looking for another job for a while and it was just pure coincidence that the day I planned on handing in my notice HR is introducing this other British expat on his first day. Purely for shits and giggles when I handed my notice in to my boss that afternoon when he got in the office I told him it was because they hired another British person and that was my thing here in the company. They even went as far as saying they'd let the other guy go and which point I told them the fact they'd even thought about brining in another British person in was enough and I felt hurt and was obviously not fulfilling the token British guy role adequately (plus I did not want the new guy to lose his job here as I was leaving anyhow). Worked my notice and left, to this day they think that is the reason I left!
If he moves me anyway, when I resign next spring, I will tell him that it was because he moved my office just to mess with him...
Nice. made me chuckle.
Not an FU story but on a similar theme when I quit the last job I had I told them it was because they hired another British person (I live in the US). I'd been looking for another job for a while and it was just pure coincidence that the day I planned on handing in my notice HR is introducing this other British expat on his first day. Purely for shits and giggles when I handed my notice in to my boss that afternoon when he got in the office I told him it was because they hired another British person and that was my thing here in the company. They even went as far as saying they'd let the other guy go and which point I told them the fact they'd even thought about brining in another British person in was enough and I felt hurt and was obviously not fulfilling the token British guy role adequately (plus I did not want the new guy to lose his job here as I was leaving anyhow). Worked my notice and left, to this day they think that is the reason I left!
We have a new "health and well-being" initiative at my company...there are signs up all over the place recommending we take the stairs instead of the elevator, more of those anti-germ handwash things installed at the top and bottom of all stairways. They have also put up signs at the top and bottom of the stairways saying you "must" use the handrails. I get personal safety and the potential company liability, but the word "must" goes beyond my limits of reasonableness. I'm thinking about using that as the reason for my leaving. Not particularly epic, but the last few posts here reminded me of it.
(Real reason is FU/FIRE money plus dissatisfaction with management.)
We have a new "health and well-being" initiative at my company...there are signs up all over the place recommending we take the stairs instead of the elevator, more of those anti-germ handwash things installed at the top and bottom of all stairways. They have also put up signs at the top and bottom of the stairways saying you "must" use the handrails. I get personal safety and the potential company liability, but the word "must" goes beyond my limits of reasonableness. I'm thinking about using that as the reason for my leaving. Not particularly epic, but the last few posts here reminded me of it.
(Real reason is FU/FIRE money plus dissatisfaction with management.)
We have a new "health and well-being" initiative at my company...there are signs up all over the place recommending we take the stairs instead of the elevator, more of those anti-germ handwash things installed at the top and bottom of all stairways. They have also put up signs at the top and bottom of the stairways saying you "must" use the handrails. I get personal safety and the potential company liability, but the word "must" goes beyond my limits of reasonableness. I'm thinking about using that as the reason for my leaving. Not particularly epic, but the last few posts here reminded me of it.
(Real reason is FU/FIRE money plus dissatisfaction with management.)
Oh, gawd, those health initiatives. Combined with a few people who always get SUPER enthusiastic and who start browbeating everyone else over it. Ugh.
From the asshats at my last office:
"Take the stairs! It's healthier!" No. It's 8am, I don't have the enthusiasm, and the physio appointments have only slightly helped with my hip pain and NO I don't wanna discuss my health with you.
"Are you eating THAT? It's not healthy!" No, it's not healthy, but I am 5 weeks pregnant, nauseous as hell, and am likely to puke on your shoes if I have to smell what you're eating. Right at that moment, crackers, pickles, and blueberries are what stayed down, so that was lunch. Forgive me if I didn't discuss the details of my reproductive and digestive system with the lunch police.
Something about encouraging a lack of boundaries in the workplace just never seems to end well.
The actual reason I left: my boss yelled at me for not wearing heels to a conference where I had to stand up all day, while 8 months pregnant and the approximate size of a small house. Bite me, I quit.
We have a new "health and well-being" initiative at my company...there are signs up all over the place recommending we take the stairs instead of the elevator, more of those anti-germ handwash things installed at the top and bottom of all stairways. They have also put up signs at the top and bottom of the stairways saying you "must" use the handrails. I get personal safety and the potential company liability, but the word "must" goes beyond my limits of reasonableness. I'm thinking about using that as the reason for my leaving. Not particularly epic, but the last few posts here reminded me of it.
(Real reason is FU/FIRE money plus dissatisfaction with management.)
Oh, gawd, those health initiatives. Combined with a few people who always get SUPER enthusiastic and who start browbeating everyone else over it. Ugh.
From the asshats at my last office:
"Take the stairs! It's healthier!" No. It's 8am, I don't have the enthusiasm, and the physio appointments have only slightly helped with my hip pain and NO I don't wanna discuss my health with you.
"Are you eating THAT? It's not healthy!" No, it's not healthy, but I am 5 weeks pregnant, nauseous as hell, and am likely to puke on your shoes if I have to smell what you're eating. Right at that moment, crackers, pickles, and blueberries are what stayed down, so that was lunch. Forgive me if I didn't discuss the details of my reproductive and digestive system with the lunch police.
Something about encouraging a lack of boundaries in the workplace just never seems to end well.
The actual reason I left: my boss yelled at me for not wearing heels to a conference where I had to stand up all day, while 8 months pregnant and the approximate size of a small house. Bite me, I quit.
HO-LEE FUCK! That's not acceptable behavior by your boss in my world, EVEN IF you weren't a single one of the things you listed.
We have a new "health and well-being" initiative at my company...there are signs up all over the place recommending we take the stairs instead of the elevator, more of those anti-germ handwash things installed at the top and bottom of all stairways. They have also put up signs at the top and bottom of the stairways saying you "must" use the handrails. I get personal safety and the potential company liability, but the word "must" goes beyond my limits of reasonableness. I'm thinking about using that as the reason for my leaving. Not particularly epic, but the last few posts here reminded me of it.
(Real reason is FU/FIRE money plus dissatisfaction with management.)
Oh, gawd, those health initiatives. Combined with a few people who always get SUPER enthusiastic and who start browbeating everyone else over it. Ugh.
From the asshats at my last office:
"Take the stairs! It's healthier!" No. It's 8am, I don't have the enthusiasm, and the physio appointments have only slightly helped with my hip pain and NO I don't wanna discuss my health with you.
"Are you eating THAT? It's not healthy!" No, it's not healthy, but I am 5 weeks pregnant, nauseous as hell, and am likely to puke on your shoes if I have to smell what you're eating. Right at that moment, crackers, pickles, and blueberries are what stayed down, so that was lunch. Forgive me if I didn't discuss the details of my reproductive and digestive system with the lunch police.
Something about encouraging a lack of boundaries in the workplace just never seems to end well.
The actual reason I left: my boss yelled at me for not wearing heels to a conference where I had to stand up all day, while 8 months pregnant and the approximate size of a small house. Bite me, I quit.
HO-LEE FUCK! That's not acceptable behavior by your boss in my world, EVEN IF you weren't a single one of the things you listed.
Actually, I think that might fall into the realm of sexual harassment.
We have a new "health and well-being" initiative at my company...there are signs up all over the place recommending we take the stairs instead of the elevator, more of those anti-germ handwash things installed at the top and bottom of all stairways. They have also put up signs at the top and bottom of the stairways saying you "must" use the handrails. I get personal safety and the potential company liability, but the word "must" goes beyond my limits of reasonableness. I'm thinking about using that as the reason for my leaving. Not particularly epic, but the last few posts here reminded me of it.
(Real reason is FU/FIRE money plus dissatisfaction with management.)
Oh, gawd, those health initiatives. Combined with a few people who always get SUPER enthusiastic and who start browbeating everyone else over it. Ugh.
From the asshats at my last office:
"Take the stairs! It's healthier!" No. It's 8am, I don't have the enthusiasm, and the physio appointments have only slightly helped with my hip pain and NO I don't wanna discuss my health with you.
"Are you eating THAT? It's not healthy!" No, it's not healthy, but I am 5 weeks pregnant, nauseous as hell, and am likely to puke on your shoes if I have to smell what you're eating. Right at that moment, crackers, pickles, and blueberries are what stayed down, so that was lunch. Forgive me if I didn't discuss the details of my reproductive and digestive system with the lunch police.
Something about encouraging a lack of boundaries in the workplace just never seems to end well.
The actual reason I left: my boss yelled at me for not wearing heels to a conference where I had to stand up all day, while 8 months pregnant and the approximate size of a small house. Bite me, I quit.
HO-LEE FUCK! That's not acceptable behavior by your boss in my world, EVEN IF you weren't a single one of the things you listed.
Actually, I think that might fall into the realm of sexual harassment.
It certainly isn't reasonable workplace accommodationfor a pregnant employee. I'm very sorry this happened to you. :(
We have a new "health and well-being" initiative at my company...there are signs up all over the place recommending we take the stairs instead of the elevator, more of those anti-germ handwash things installed at the top and bottom of all stairways. They have also put up signs at the top and bottom of the stairways saying you "must" use the handrails. I get personal safety and the potential company liability, but the word "must" goes beyond my limits of reasonableness. I'm thinking about using that as the reason for my leaving. Not particularly epic, but the last few posts here reminded me of it.
(Real reason is FU/FIRE money plus dissatisfaction with management.)
Haha do it, don't tell them the 'must' bothers you, just that you don't like using handrails so you can't work there anymore.
'why are you leaving?'
'i don't like using handrails on stairs'
'so don't...'
'but i must, the signs say so, so I have no choice but to leave'
Then see if you can convince them to take the signs down. Then leave.
And report back if you do!
Today Mr. Mandalay reminded me of how I left my job prior to this one.
I was in upper echelon customer service for an entertainment company. I loved the job, I loved my supervisor, and my coworkers were awesome. However, my supervisor was involved in a very serious car accident and wouldn't be back for months while he was recuperating. The powers that be did a little shuffling, and so Felicia came to preside over the group.
Felicia was the living embodiment of Dolores Umbridge. She was all smiles and sweet voice, but she remains the nastiest person it's ever been my misfortune to know. My group had heard horror stories about her for ages, and now we started to live them. She wrote people up for the stupidest shit. How stupid? Try coming back from lunch 75 SECONDS late (yes, she counted). Laughing while talking with customers ("you really must be more professional, dear"--this was me BTW). She wrote one woman up for combing her hair at her desk. And then of course the "dear." There were regular outbursts of "Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!" coming over her cube wall. And God, she nitpicked EVERYTHING, but management backed her up without question. After roughly a month I didn't know whether I was going to go suicidal or homicidal, even though unlike my coworkers I'd only been written up once. After Mr. Mandalay heard me coming in from work, slamming my purse on the counter and screaming "GAAAAAH FUCKING FELICIA!!!!" for the twentieth time he said over dinner "if you're that fucking miserable, quit. We've got enough saved, we'll be okay for a while."
I was still nervous, so I vowed to myself that Felicia would have to do something heinous before I'd pull the trigger. I only had to wait three days. Felicia wrote me up for "dressing inappropriately." This was a call center, so we could wear what we wanted as long as it was clean and in good taste. I am the most conservative dresser on the planet. The "inappropriate" garment in question was a University of Virginia sweatshirt.
Why did Felicia find it offensive?
She went to Virginia Tech.
I am TOTALLY not kidding.
I stood up, ripped up the form and said "I quit."
"Dear, I don't think you can afford to quit," Felicia said.
I still remember beaming and saying "Actually, Felicia, I can" and the stunned look on her face as I left her cube.
I heard later on that Felicia ended up getting transferred to the Kansas City branch of the company. I wonder how many people she wrote up for wearing Jayhawks shirts ...
Today Mr. Mandalay reminded me of how I left my job prior to this one.
I was in upper echelon customer service for an entertainment company. I loved the job, I loved my supervisor, and my coworkers were awesome. However, my supervisor was involved in a very serious car accident and wouldn't be back for months while he was recuperating. The powers that be did a little shuffling, and so Felicia came to preside over the group.
Felicia was the living embodiment of Dolores Umbridge. She was all smiles and sweet voice, but she remains the nastiest person it's ever been my misfortune to know. My group had heard horror stories about her for ages, and now we started to live them. She wrote people up for the stupidest shit. How stupid? Try coming back from lunch 75 SECONDS late (yes, she counted). Laughing while talking with customers ("you really must be more professional, dear"--this was me BTW). She wrote one woman up for combing her hair at her desk. And then of course the "dear." There were regular outbursts of "Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!" coming over her cube wall. And God, she nitpicked EVERYTHING, but management backed her up without question. After roughly a month I didn't know whether I was going to go suicidal or homicidal, even though unlike my coworkers I'd only been written up once. After Mr. Mandalay heard me coming in from work, slamming my purse on the counter and screaming "GAAAAAH FUCKING FELICIA!!!!" for the twentieth time he said over dinner "if you're that fucking miserable, quit. We've got enough saved, we'll be okay for a while."
I was still nervous, so I vowed to myself that Felicia would have to do something heinous before I'd pull the trigger. I only had to wait three days. Felicia wrote me up for "dressing inappropriately." This was a call center, so we could wear what we wanted as long as it was clean and in good taste. I am the most conservative dresser on the planet. The "inappropriate" garment in question was a University of Virginia sweatshirt.
Why did Felicia find it offensive?
She went to Virginia Tech.
I am TOTALLY not kidding.
I stood up, ripped up the form and said "I quit."
"Dear, I don't think you can afford to quit," Felicia said.
I still remember beaming and saying "Actually, Felicia, I can" and the stunned look on her face as I left her cube.
I heard later on that Felicia ended up getting transferred to the Kansas City branch of the company. I wonder how many people she wrote up for wearing Jayhawks shirts ...
The only thing that would have made it better is if you had fired back some southern sass at her 'dear'ing you. A little "oh, sweetie, bless your heart, but I think I can afford to quit. Toodle ooh" said in a way that sounds sweet, but really tells her ' go F yourself PEACE OUT!'
...The "inappropriate" garment in question was a University of Virginia sweatshirt.Tell her that the company was paying you a special U of Virginia bonus
Why did Felicia find it offensive?
She went to Virginia Tech.
I am TOTALLY not kidding.
I stood up, ripped up the form and said "I quit."
"Dear, I don't think you can afford to quit," Felicia said.
I still remember beaming and saying "Actually, Felicia, I can" and the stunned look on her face as I left her cube.
...Since then, they have taken my recommendations, our team is more successful than ever, and my job is much more satisfying. Even my managers look good due to our recent success.
The only thing that would have made it better is if you had fired back some southern sass at her 'dear'ing you. A little "oh, sweetie, bless your heart, but I think I can afford to quit. Toodle ooh" said in a way that sounds sweet, but really tells her ' go F yourself PEACE OUT!'
The only thing that would have made it better is if you had fired back some southern sass at her 'dear'ing you. A little "oh, sweetie, bless your heart, but I think I can afford to quit. Toodle ooh" said in a way that sounds sweet, but really tells her ' go F yourself PEACE OUT!'
Despite the fact that I've lived in the south for twenty years my Jersey blood doesn't allow me to do sass. :D And what makes the whole thing hilarious is that I didn't even GO to UVA. If I'd worn my William & Mary shirt she might have thought me an elitist, ha hah. I see the college rivalry in my own family (Florida vs. Florida State) and mock everyone for taking it so seriously ...
The only thing that would have made it better is if you had fired back some southern sass at her 'dear'ing you. A little "oh, sweetie, bless your heart, but I think I can afford to quit. Toodle ooh" said in a way that sounds sweet, but really tells her ' go F yourself PEACE OUT!'
Despite the fact that I've lived in the south for twenty years my Jersey blood doesn't allow me to do sass. :D And what makes the whole thing hilarious is that I didn't even GO to UVA. If I'd worn my William & Mary shirt she might have thought me an elitist, ha hah. I see the college rivalry in my own family (Florida vs. Florida State) and mock everyone for taking it so seriously ...
Mom went to W&M law school. Speaking of college rivalries, I went to the university that's part of The Rivalry.
Lehigh University (the other side is Lafayette College). It's the only football rivalry called The Rivalry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rivalry_(Lehigh%E2%80%93Lafayette)).The only thing that would have made it better is if you had fired back some southern sass at her 'dear'ing you. A little "oh, sweetie, bless your heart, but I think I can afford to quit. Toodle ooh" said in a way that sounds sweet, but really tells her ' go F yourself PEACE OUT!'
Despite the fact that I've lived in the south for twenty years my Jersey blood doesn't allow me to do sass. :D And what makes the whole thing hilarious is that I didn't even GO to UVA. If I'd worn my William & Mary shirt she might have thought me an elitist, ha hah. I see the college rivalry in my own family (Florida vs. Florida State) and mock everyone for taking it so seriously ...
Mom went to W&M law school. Speaking of college rivalries, I went to the university that's part of The Rivalry.
Ohio State?
Lehigh University (the other side is Lafayette College). It's the only football rivalry called The Rivalry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rivalry_(Lehigh%E2%80%93Lafayette)).The only thing that would have made it better is if you had fired back some southern sass at her 'dear'ing you. A little "oh, sweetie, bless your heart, but I think I can afford to quit. Toodle ooh" said in a way that sounds sweet, but really tells her ' go F yourself PEACE OUT!'
Despite the fact that I've lived in the south for twenty years my Jersey blood doesn't allow me to do sass. :D And what makes the whole thing hilarious is that I didn't even GO to UVA. If I'd worn my William & Mary shirt she might have thought me an elitist, ha hah. I see the college rivalry in my own family (Florida vs. Florida State) and mock everyone for taking it so seriously ...
Mom went to W&M law school. Speaking of college rivalries, I went to the university that's part of The Rivalry.
Ohio State?
If he moves me anyway, when I resign next spring, I will tell him that it was because he moved my office just to mess with him...
Nice. made me chuckle.
Not an FU story but on a similar theme when I quit the last job I had I told them it was because they hired another British person (I live in the US). I'd been looking for another job for a while and it was just pure coincidence that the day I planned on handing in my notice HR is introducing this other British expat on his first day. Purely for shits and giggles when I handed my notice in to my boss that afternoon when he got in the office I told him it was because they hired another British person and that was my thing here in the company. They even went as far as saying they'd let the other guy go and which point I told them the fact they'd even thought about brining in another British person in was enough and I felt hurt and was obviously not fulfilling the token British guy role adequately (plus I did not want the new guy to lose his job here as I was leaving anyhow). Worked my notice and left, to this day they think that is the reason I left!
Not a particularly extravagant FU Story, but more of a quiet (yet immensely satisfying) one. Sorry for the length!
Not a particularly extravagant FU Story, but more of a quiet (yet immensely satisfying) one. Sorry for the length!
That was awesome! And +1 to AlanStache for his signature ;)
That was awesome! And +1 to AlanStache for his signature ;)
That signature has kept me in check and stopped me from posting more than one reply :-)
His mom made the sweaters for him is what I was told
His mom made the sweaters for him is what I was told
His mom made the sweaters for him is what I was told
I googled that for you: http://www.fredrogers.org/frc/news/mister-rogers-shares-how-his-mother-showed-love
But thanks for the googling tip. Lovely little story.
I agree, bravo!Not a particularly extravagant FU Story, but more of a quiet (yet immensely satisfying) one. Sorry for the length!
You may not think that's extravagant, but I certainly do! Very cool the way you handled it.
How did you turn in resignation letters and get severance? Basically hush money to sign a "I won't sue" document, not really severance? I was anticipating the story ending with you saying no to the extra 4 months, and just taking the severance, and them being shocked/having to scramble. But the resignation letters threw me.
I agree, bravo!Not a particularly extravagant FU Story, but more of a quiet (yet immensely satisfying) one. Sorry for the length!
You may not think that's extravagant, but I certainly do! Very cool the way you handled it.
Here's a great story about an IT worker who was let go without even an exit interview:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/04/sysadmins_100000_revenge_after_sudden_sacking/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/04/sysadmins_100000_revenge_after_sudden_sacking/)
Here's a great story about an IT worker who was let go without even an exit interview:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/04/sysadmins_100000_revenge_after_sudden_sacking/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/04/sysadmins_100000_revenge_after_sudden_sacking/)
Not exactly a FU story but pretty funny all the same. "Penny wise and pound foolish"
Yep, the title was inflammatory. I thought it was a great story though.
Yep, the title was inflammatory. I thought it was a great story though.
I've found that as I've approached and surpassed having "FU Money", I've felt less and less inclined to ever have to use it.
Someone is being a dick at work? So what... So I disengage and surf the web for a while. What's the worst that happens, they let me go in the next layoff round? LOL.
On the one hand, I commend people for leaving a toxic work environment, especially when they have the easy financial means to do it. On the other, some of these stories leave me thinking good people are letting the occasional asshole get the better of them, and that by leaving they're just letting the asshole disrupt the good person's life and continue to merrily abuse everyone else who remains. I wish some of these stories would end along the lines of, "So I told the CEO, either the asshole leaves or I do. They fired the asshole."I just read an article that discussed how expensive a toxic employee is - does WAY more damage and cost than hiring 5 good employees!
Like using a stupid college rivalry as grounds to file an actual, written reprimand against an employee?? Man, I'd tell that person (in a strictly professional way) they better go f*ck themselves first, because if they write me up for something like that they will definitely get f*cked way worse.
There were actually people, in a specific group at my last company, that would cancel vacation plans because of last minute company needs. I couldn't believe it.I've found that as I've approached and surpassed having "FU Money", I've felt less and less inclined to ever have to use it.
Someone is being a dick at work? So what... So I disengage and surf the web for a while. What's the worst that happens, they let me go in the next layoff round? LOL.
Heh reminds me of when I had planned a vacation before I had the time off approved. One of my coworkers was like 'but what if they say no?' I told her I already bought my flight, so I'm going anyway, and absolute worst case I'll just go find another job when I get back. She was pretty shocked, haha.
On the one hand, I commend people for leaving a toxic work environment, especially when they have the easy financial means to do it. On the other, some of these stories leave me thinking good people are letting the occasional asshole get the better of them, and that by leaving they're just letting the asshole disrupt the good person's life and continue to merrily abuse everyone else who remains. I wish some of these stories would end along the lines of, "So I told the CEO, either the asshole leaves or I do. They fired the asshole."
Like using a stupid college rivalry as grounds to file an actual, written reprimand against an employee?? Man, I'd tell that person (in a strictly professional way) they better go f*ck themselves first, because if they write me up for something like that they will definitely get f*cked way worse.
There were actually people, in a specific group at my last company, that would cancel vacation plans because of last minute company needs. I couldn't believe it.
I would never never do that.
If the money really is great, and you've got no problem executing the 'FU' part, you might give it a go. You might be the guy that gets the culture changed by not answering the phone when you're on vacation and / or simply saying no.There were actually people, in a specific group at my last company, that would cancel vacation plans because of last minute company needs. I couldn't believe it.
I would never never do that.
I keep toying with the idea of throwing my resume at a company that not only would the company ask, they've literally called employees while on vacation and told them they need to get back.
The job security and money are great, but damn is that a kick in the junk. Pre-MMM and kids, I would've jumped at the opportunity, but now I'm not so sure if it's for me anymore.
FU Money: letting reforming work-a-holics make better lifestyle choices.
If the money really is great, and you've got no problem executing the 'FU' part, you might give it a go. You might be the guy that gets the culture changed by not answering the phone when you're on vacation and / or simply saying no.There were actually people, in a specific group at my last company, that would cancel vacation plans because of last minute company needs. I couldn't believe it.
I would never never do that.
I keep toying with the idea of throwing my resume at a company that not only would the company ask, they've literally called employees while on vacation and told them they need to get back.
The job security and money are great, but damn is that a kick in the junk. Pre-MMM and kids, I would've jumped at the opportunity, but now I'm not so sure if it's for me anymore.
FU Money: letting reforming work-a-holics make better lifestyle choices.
Why are people answering work calls when they are on vacation? Crazy.
:-) I used to do that. "Just check your e-mail everyday" "Sorry, no internet or electricity off the west coast of BC" "What?"
On the one hand, I commend people for leaving a toxic work environment, especially when they have the easy financial means to do it. On the other, some of these stories leave me thinking good people are letting the occasional asshole get the better of them, and that by leaving they're just letting the asshole disrupt the good person's life and continue to merrily abuse everyone else who remains. I wish some of these stories would end along the lines of, "So I told the CEO, either the asshole leaves or I do. They fired the asshole."
Like using a stupid college rivalry as grounds to file an actual, written reprimand against an employee?? Man, I'd tell that person (in a strictly professional way) they better go f*ck themselves first, because if they write me up for something like that they will definitely get f*cked way worse.
One bonus for working in construction: I can tell people to go fuck themselves in a non-professional manner. No need to parse words, sometimes vulgarity is a necessity.
I've found that as I've approached and surpassed having "FU Money", I've felt less and less inclined to ever have to use it.
Someone is being a dick at work? So what... So I disengage and surf the web for a while. What's the worst that happens, they let me go in the next layoff round? LOL.
I've found that as I've approached and surpassed having "FU Money", I've felt less and less inclined to ever have to use it.
Someone is being a dick at work? So what... So I disengage and surf the web for a while. What's the worst that happens, they let me go in the next layoff round? LOL.
As much as many people around here say they want to be laid off, I suspect it's not such a lighthearted experience. Sure, you get extra money, but I imagine it'd be an ego blow for those of us who don't have the most iron-clad of egos / a total absence of ego.
I've found that as I've approached and surpassed having "FU Money", I've felt less and less inclined to ever have to use it.
Someone is being a dick at work? So what... So I disengage and surf the web for a while. What's the worst that happens, they let me go in the next layoff round? LOL.
As much as many people around here say they want to be laid off, I suspect it's not such a lighthearted experience. Sure, you get extra money, but I imagine it'd be an ego blow for those of us who don't have the most iron-clad of egos / a total absence of ego.
Getting laid off is just part of the deal with construction, though. It's counterproductive to threaten most veteran construction workers with a lay-off, because most of them expect it eventually anyway.
:-) I used to do that. "Just check your e-mail everyday" "Sorry, no internet or electricity off the west coast of BC" "What?"
Verbatim, from my last job:
Me: 'I'll be at the family lake. No cell reception or internet. Back in 2 weeks.'
Boss: 'But... but... what do we do if there's an emergency???!!?'
Me: 'Well, *assistant who was going to take over my job while I was on maternity leave a few months later* is well-trained and knows everything that's going on. So: she can figure it out, or if it's a big enough emergency, she can drive 3 hours out to tell me about it in person, she has the address.'
Oh, man, the look on her face.
I still think that's an excellent way to calibrate 'emergency'. If it's worth 6 hours of driving for me to fix it, FINE, you may disturb my vacation for a half-hour while I work miracles on your issue. Until then, you're paid to handle this problem, so fix it, I don't care how.
IIRC the guy from "The Last Lecture" when he went on his honeymoon told his boss that he would only take calls from his mother in law and gave his boss her number. And that if something was that on fire his boss could call his mother in law and explain the problem and then she could call him.
Also highly recommend "The Last Lecture" if you have not read it.
IIRC the guy from "The Last Lecture" when he went on his honeymoon told his boss that he would only take calls from his mother in law and gave his boss her number. And that if something was that on fire his boss could call his mother in law and explain the problem and then she could call him.
Also highly recommend "The Last Lecture" if you have not read it.
I actually attended a Randy Pausch lecture many years before his "Last Lecture". I almost skipped it, because the subject -- human-computer-interaction -- wasn't something I was particularly interested in at the time. (I've since become much more interested.) Anyway, the lecture was funny, inspiring, and fascinating. I've used the lessons learned from that brief introduction to the topic in discussions with other UI developers.
Anytime that some boss threatened to fire me, my response was always, "Don't threaten me with a good time."
Newsflash people: don't ask. The online computer timecard system DOES NOT CARE when the hours are. In fact, it only flags the system if you are under 80 for the pay period (and back then, you still got paid the full amount. I know because I had one pay period at 79.5 hours).The red flags would show up for violation #1 EVEN IF YOU HAD WORKED 20+ HOURS OVER THE WEEKEND FOR A PROGRAM EVENT!
You know you can lie on your timecard....? The person using it in payroll probably has no one idea who you even are. There are other tricks too. We had a timeclock at one job, despite it allegedly being salary. If I wanted to leave early I would just "forget" to clock out, and tell the timekeeper the time I "left" the next day.
Of course, this only works if you are a quality employee who your boss likes having around and you treat your co-workers well so they don't raise a big stink and will defend you if necessary.
As much as many people around here say they want to be laid off, I suspect it's not such a lighthearted experience. Sure, you get extra money, but I imagine it'd be an ego blow for those of us who don't have the most iron-clad of egos / a total absence of ego.Oh, M41 this post makes me sad for you. Part of being Mustachian is that you just don't give a fuck about what other people think. He had probably been laid off and was still angry about it. I might have said, "Well, you could say I laid myself off, and I've been having fun ever since."
I was playing poker with some shit-talking expats the other day. They asked what I did for work, as people do. I explained that DH and I had quit our jobs and were living off of savings ( I find that's the most succinct way to put it and have people understand FIRE without explaining FIRE). A few hands into the game, Craig looked at me sideways. He asked, "were you laid off?"
His question was LOADED with judgement. I could tell that if I had been laid off, he'd think less of me. Not that it mattered in the grand scheme - but the judgement was palpable. I answered honestly, no I hadn't been laid off, it had been my choice. But wow. It hit me that there's more to being laid off than receiving a fat check. Loads of judgement would come from others, and, perhaps, from self. Yes, I'm sure I could withstand it and yes, being financially compensated would help. But, it wouldn't be a walk in the park. It's not something I'd wish for.
.... well of course there's probably a dollar value where I *would* wish for it. Maybe a couple million, after taxes? I think I could deal with an ego blow for a couple mil.
If the money really is great, and you've got no problem executing the 'FU' part, you might give it a go. You might be the guy that gets the culture changed by not answering the phone when you're on vacation and / or simply saying no.
It is simply NOT RIGHT for the company to expect you to give them everything, do what it takes, work 100 hours in 2 weeks on a deadline, but expect you to take 3 hours of PTO if you leave early to take your kid to the dentist. WTF??
^I have no idea why you would even consider working somewhere like that. Why do you even toy with the idea of working there? It is more interesting or prestigious our something?
^I have no idea why you would even consider working somewhere like that. Why do you even toy with the idea of working there? It is more interesting or prestigious our something?
I get paid by the hour. If you've got the money, Honey, I've got the time. ;)
Construction doesn't have the nice steady pace of most jobs. When there's work, you work as much as you can because when there's no work, you don't get paid. The week before I got married, I worked 119 hours in 7 days (5-16s, 1-17, 1-22). But, I paid for most of the wedding in that week. I worked 2600hrs in 39 weeks that year. So, 13 weeks off, no pay. If I was still single, I'd still be doing it.
More interesting, more money, stability, and like I said, I'm a reforming workaholic. I usually enjoy what I do.
I went to college at CMU (before Randy Pausch started there). I should read his last lecture.IIRC the guy from "The Last Lecture" when he went on his honeymoon told his boss that he would only take calls from his mother in law and gave his boss her number. And that if something was that on fire his boss could call his mother in law and explain the problem and then she could call him.
Also highly recommend "The Last Lecture" if you have not read it.
I actually attended a Randy Pausch lecture many years before his "Last Lecture". I almost skipped it, because the subject -- human-computer-interaction -- wasn't something I was particularly interested in at the time. (I've since become much more interested.) Anyway, the lecture was funny, inspiring, and fascinating. I've used the lessons learned from that brief introduction to the topic in discussions with other UI developers.
I should read his last lecture.
You know you can lie on your timecard....? The person using it in payroll probably has no one idea who you even are. There are other tricks too. We had a timeclock at one job, despite it allegedly being salary. If I wanted to leave early I would just "forget" to clock out, and tell the timekeeper the time I "left" the next day.
Of course, this only works if you are a quality employee who your boss likes having around and you treat your co-workers well so they don't raise a big stink and will defend you if necessary.
It's a good way to get fired and potentially blacklisted. I agree you can usually get away with it if your boss consents, but larger companies always have someone higher up who will nuke the department of they find out
My organization had gotten in some extremely deep doo doo at one point due to timekeeping issues on certain contracts, so it was a major major deal. You did NOT want to mess around with your timecard -- you and your boss were both at risk of immediate termination if there was any falsification. You had to keep external records documenting all your billing in 15 minute increments. Which wasted several hours a week, but that was apparently better than the consequences of not being so rigid.
And that is why that line of work is terrible and stressful. Not only do you have to log hours, but some percentage must be billable, and you only get a crappy bonus if you work like 80 hours a week (so you get like 45 billable hours)... So glad I don't do that anymore.All time must be billed to a project code.
As much as many people around here say they want to be laid off, I suspect it's not such a lighthearted experience. Sure, you get extra money, but I imagine it'd be an ego blow for those of us who don't have the most iron-clad of egos / a total absence of ego.Oh, M41 this post makes me sad for you. Part of being Mustachian is that you just don't give a fuck about what other people think. He had probably been laid off and was still angry about it. I might have said, "Well, you could say I laid myself off, and I've been having fun ever since."
I was playing poker with some shit-talking expats the other day. They asked what I did for work, as people do. I explained that DH and I had quit our jobs and were living off of savings ( I find that's the most succinct way to put it and have people understand FIRE without explaining FIRE). A few hands into the game, Craig looked at me sideways. He asked, "were you laid off?"
His question was LOADED with judgement. I could tell that if I had been laid off, he'd think less of me. Not that it mattered in the grand scheme - but the judgement was palpable. I answered honestly, no I hadn't been laid off, it had been my choice. But wow. It hit me that there's more to being laid off than receiving a fat check. Loads of judgement would come from others, and, perhaps, from self. Yes, I'm sure I could withstand it and yes, being financially compensated would help. But, it wouldn't be a walk in the park. It's not something I'd wish for.
.... well of course there's probably a dollar value where I *would* wish for it. Maybe a couple million, after taxes? I think I could deal with an ego blow for a couple mil.
When I was a kid, my specialist ophthalmologist was all the way across town. My SAHM would schedule a late morning appointment to avoid traffic and then not bother to take me back to school, using the excuse that my eyes were still dilated. I always loved those appointments because I got a few hours off when everyone else was toiling away. I remember that feeling because I've taken joy in replicating it my entire adult life. Now that I'm RE, every day feels that way. It's awesome. I do feel like I'm getting away with something, and it's still a thrill. I just wish I could bottle up the feeling and sent some to you.
And that is why that line of work is terrible and stressful. Not only do you have to log hours, but some percentage must be billable, and you only get a crappy bonus if you work like 80 hours a week (so you get like 45 billable hours)... So glad I don't do that anymore.All time must be billed to a project code.
But you can't bill to a project that is over budget and has used all its hours
And your hours have to add up to the standard 39 hour week - however long you were actually working.
Welcome to consultancy ... I didn't last long
As much as many people around here say they want to be laid off, I suspect it's not such a lighthearted experience. Sure, you get extra money, but I imagine it'd be an ego blow for those of us who don't have the most iron-clad of egos / a total absence of ego.Oh, M41 this post makes me sad for you. Part of being Mustachian is that you just don't give a fuck about what other people think. He had probably been laid off and was still angry about it. I might have said, "Well, you could say I laid myself off, and I've been having fun ever since."
I was playing poker with some shit-talking expats the other day. They asked what I did for work, as people do. I explained that DH and I had quit our jobs and were living off of savings ( I find that's the most succinct way to put it and have people understand FIRE without explaining FIRE). A few hands into the game, Craig looked at me sideways. He asked, "were you laid off?"
His question was LOADED with judgement. I could tell that if I had been laid off, he'd think less of me. Not that it mattered in the grand scheme - but the judgement was palpable. I answered honestly, no I hadn't been laid off, it had been my choice. But wow. It hit me that there's more to being laid off than receiving a fat check. Loads of judgement would come from others, and, perhaps, from self. Yes, I'm sure I could withstand it and yes, being financially compensated would help. But, it wouldn't be a walk in the park. It's not something I'd wish for.
.... well of course there's probably a dollar value where I *would* wish for it. Maybe a couple million, after taxes? I think I could deal with an ego blow for a couple mil.
When I was a kid, my specialist ophthalmologist was all the way across town. My SAHM would schedule a late morning appointment to avoid traffic and then not bother to take me back to school, using the excuse that my eyes were still dilated. I always loved those appointments because I got a few hours off when everyone else was toiling away. I remember that feeling because I've taken joy in replicating it my entire adult life. Now that I'm RE, every day feels that way. It's awesome. I do feel like I'm getting away with something, and it's still a thrill. I just wish I could bottle up the feeling and sent some to you.
Thanks Diane C - but don't worry - I'm okay. I too feel like I'm playing hooky sometimes and it feels great. I just know that if I had been laid off, it may have felt like rejection. But, I can't say for sure, as I controlled my own FIRE.
As much as I usually don't give a shit about what people think, there is that small part of me that does. I can't pretend it away. But that's okay. I'm a social human.
My FIRE was a bit of an FU: on my weekly phone 1:1, my boss told me that I needed to come back to the US. They wanted my job to be done in CA. I replied, "Umm, nah, we have enough money to live on, I think I'm done." My boss was quiet for a long time. Then said, "really? How does that work? I must admit, I'm kind of jealous." A week later, he said, "you can keep doing your job where you are" I said, "nah, I'm done."
Now I get to play hooky every day! But I am bummed that my shit-talking expat poker buddies won't be able to get together til mid-Jan. :(. What's the point in all this free time if I can't play poker?
...
That's the thing. At this company, with call outs, 50 hours might be 3 days some weeks. I told one of their guys that we were working overtime, 50hrs, and his reply literally was: "50hrs/week? I remember when I had a part time job like that."
Other work groups literally have forced overtime. 6-12s, 7-12s, for months. Want to take a vacation day on a Sunday? Have to burn 3 and take the weekend off.
Like I said, the workaholic in me wants to go for it, but having to hire a nanny would really cut into any extra money I'd make and my son would probably forget who I am.
...
That's the thing. At this company, with call outs, 50 hours might be 3 days some weeks. I told one of their guys that we were working overtime, 50hrs, and his reply literally was: "50hrs/week? I remember when I had a part time job like that."
Other work groups literally have forced overtime. 6-12s, 7-12s, for months. Want to take a vacation day on a Sunday? Have to burn 3 and take the weekend off.
Like I said, the workaholic in me wants to go for it, but having to hire a nanny would really cut into any extra money I'd make and my son would probably forget who I am.
I have trouble seeing how people can be productive working that many hours doing anything that requires thought. Where I work we are very aware of "negative work" ie you are working at your desk but making so many mistakes or making stupid/bad decisions that the project would be better off with you not putting in those hours. Different industries or different tasks I guess.
Studies have shown productivity at just about any jobs falls off a cliff after six consecutive hours. Long days are actually counter-productive, especially so if the employee is getting paid by the hour.Shh! Don't tell anyone.
Studies have shown productivity at just about any jobs falls off a cliff after six consecutive hours. Long days are actually counter-productive, especially so if the employee is getting paid by the hour.Shh! Don't tell anyone.
...
That's the thing. At this company, with call outs, 50 hours might be 3 days some weeks. I told one of their guys that we were working overtime, 50hrs, and his reply literally was: "50hrs/week? I remember when I had a part time job like that."
Other work groups literally have forced overtime. 6-12s, 7-12s, for months. Want to take a vacation day on a Sunday? Have to burn 3 and take the weekend off.
Like I said, the workaholic in me wants to go for it, but having to hire a nanny would really cut into any extra money I'd make and my son would probably forget who I am.
I have trouble seeing how people can be productive working that many hours doing anything that requires thought. Where I work we are very aware of "negative work" ie you are working at your desk but making so many mistakes or making stupid/bad decisions that the project would be better off with you not putting in those hours. Different industries or different tasks I guess.
I really wish more managers were aware of the concept of 'negative work'
Studies have shown productivity at just about any jobs falls off a cliff after six consecutive hours. Long days are actually counter-productive, especially so if the employee is getting paid by the hour.Shh! Don't tell anyone.
Yeah, don't tell them. I'm still hoping one day I'll be on that 4-day 10 hour days grind.
Studies have shown productivity at just about any jobs falls off a cliff after six consecutive hours. Long days are actually counter-productive, especially so if the employee is getting paid by the hour.Shh! Don't tell anyone.
Yeah, don't tell them. I'm still hoping one day I'll be on that 4-day 10 hour days grind.
I did love back when I worked 4/10s at one job, and 3/12s at the other. If I was single at the time, I would have crazy amounts of money still. And this was like 10 years ago.
Studies have shown productivity at just about any jobs falls off a cliff after six consecutive hours. Long days are actually counter-productive, especially so if the employee is getting paid by the hour.Shh! Don't tell anyone.
Yeah, don't tell them. I'm still hoping one day I'll be on that 4-day 10 hour days grind.
I did love back when I worked 4/10s at one job, and 3/12s at the other. If I was single at the time, I would have crazy amounts of money still. And this was like 10 years ago.
4/10s once sounded great but now I think it would suck as you loose most all the evening on those 4 days, like get off work go run, quick shower and some leftovers then its bed time. wash, rinse, repeat.
Studies have shown productivity at just about any jobs falls off a cliff after six consecutive hours. Long days are actually counter-productive, especially so if the employee is getting paid by the hour.Shh! Don't tell anyone.
Yeah, don't tell them. I'm still hoping one day I'll be on that 4-day 10 hour days grind.
I did love back when I worked 4/10s at one job, and 3/12s at the other. If I was single at the time, I would have crazy amounts of money still. And this was like 10 years ago.
4/10s once sounded great but now I think it would suck as you loose most all the evening on those 4 days, like get off work go run, quick shower and some leftovers then its bed time. wash, rinse, repeat.
Studies have shown productivity at just about any jobs falls off a cliff after six consecutive hours. Long days are actually counter-productive, especially so if the employee is getting paid by the hour.
I have trouble seeing how people can be productive working that many hours doing anything that requires thought. Where I work we are very aware of "negative work" ie you are working at your desk but making so many mistakes or making stupid/bad decisions that the project would be better off with you not putting in those hours. Different industries or different tasks I guess.
I had a job that was kind of like that. On call 24/7, up almost every night dealing with stuff, then in at 8am. I thought that's what I had to do. Then we hired a new admin and when he got called at night, depending on how long he was up he would come in late or not at all the next day. If they asked why he was late he would say 'I was up last night at 3am working'. Sometimes you just have the attitude of 'I already put in my hours last night/this week. Say something, I dare you'. Working long days and weeks occasionally happens when there's a special deadline or issue going on, but if it's a constant thing then that's a staffing issue, which is management's problem, not mine, imo. I get paid for 40 hours/week (or however many your agreement is). If that's not enough for the work to get done on a consistent basis, then hire more people. These are exactly the things FU money is made for.
I do check in with this thread on occasion, and it is obviously very popular. However.... am I the only one that finds some of the FU mentality a little sad? What I find sad is the desire to "stick it to the man" as a goal. I do not see it as healthy. I am not very fond of my boss, but I am under no illusions. When I leave in 4-6 years or so, I know I am replaceable. I will not be spending energy on "sticking it" to the boss. I believe that if some of the folks that have followed the FU approach could go back to their old jobs in a few days and weeks and find that life is just bobbing along nicely and that nothing has changed other than someone else is in your cubicle/job!
Yes, I've started doing this too, or kind of like it - I stopped counting every 1/4 hour that I am working so that I can "make up hours". I come in, I work, I leave. If I need to go to the dentist? I leave. If I have a project at the school? I come in late.I had a job that was kind of like that. On call 24/7, up almost every night dealing with stuff, then in at 8am. I thought that's what I had to do. Then we hired a new admin and when he got called at night, depending on how long he was up he would come in late or not at all the next day. If they asked why he was late he would say 'I was up last night at 3am working'. Sometimes you just have the attitude of 'I already put in my hours last night/this week. Say something, I dare you'. Working long days and weeks occasionally happens when there's a special deadline or issue going on, but if it's a constant thing then that's a staffing issue, which is management's problem, not mine, imo. I get paid for 40 hours/week (or however many your agreement is). If that's not enough for the work to get done on a consistent basis, then hire more people. These are exactly the things FU money is made for.
I basically did that at my last job. When I was called (or stayed late) outside of my normal working hours, I tracked it. I didn't use a single vacation day all summer...just comp day after comp day. I eventually got past the point of asking, too - I'd basically send an email to my boss/team and say "I'm taking 'X' off, comp day because (reasons)." It worked great. :)
I do check in with this thread on occasion, and it is obviously very popular. However.... am I the only one that finds some of the FU mentality a little sad? What I find sad is the desire to "stick it to the man" as a goal. I do not see it as healthy. I am not very fond of my boss, but I am under no illusions. When I leave in 4-6 years or so, I know I am replaceable. I will not be spending energy on "sticking it" to the boss. I believe that if some of the folks that have followed the FU approach could go back to their old jobs in a few days and weeks and find that life is just bobbing along nicely and that nothing has changed other than someone else is in your cubicle/job!
What you're saying is true. I'm under no illusions that telling the Man FU necessarily effects meaningful long-term changes within an organization, although it's possible.
It's human nature, though, to enjoy fantasizing about turning the tables on the normal power structure. Usually, the organization gets to make all the rules. People at higher levels of our organizations, some of whom we may never have met, make rules or issue unilateral decrees, which get handed down to workers in their cubicles, and everyone is just expected to accept and abide by them without question. As we all know, some of these rules are ridiculous and petty. FU money gives workers choices.
I've worked in jobs where we were, for example, told by management that, "our company policy is that we don't pay time and a half for hours worked over 40 per week." When I and other workers pointed out to our managers that what they were doing was in violation of federal labor laws, we were told if we didn't like it, we were always free to work someplace else. Most workers just accepted this, because they felt they had no choice. They had to pay their bills.
Because I have pretty much always had enough FU money that I could afford to, I have been able to tell my bosses what my policies are. If it's okay for company executives to unilaterally create policies, why not the workers? Companies that have been unwilling or unable to follow my policies have gotten fired by me, in other words I quit.
While you may think this is "sad," I disagree. If more people saw the connection between a high savings rate and rapidly accumulating as much FU money as possible, and the freedom that having that money allows them to have, the world would be a better place.
Did you report them to the department of labor? They tend to think poorly of deliberately flouting employment laws.
I do check in with this thread on occasion, and it is obviously very popular. However.... am I the only one that finds some of the FU mentality a little sad? What I find sad is the desire to "stick it to the man" as a goal. I do not see it as healthy. I am not very fond of my boss, but I am under no illusions. When I leave in 4-6 years or so, I know I am replaceable. I will not be spending energy on "sticking it" to the boss. I believe that if some of the folks that have followed the FU approach could go back to their old jobs in a few days and weeks and find that life is just bobbing along nicely and that nothing has changed other than someone else is in your cubicle/job!Having FU money made me happy. In my career, I went from great boss to not-great boss a number of times, through no fault of my own. Knowing I could pull the trigger at any time made it much easier to deal with the not-great bosses while they lasted. Actually, not only did FU money make me happier, it made me feel mightily empowered, which is priceless. I never had any particular desire to "stick it to the man", I was all about having options when the tides of business flowed in the wrong direction. I think that you might be interpreting the attitudes of a few as the attitude of all on this thread, mancityfan.
A few weeks later, I get a letter in the mail saying that for not working my notice, I did not get paid out 1 month's worth of vacation time that I had saved up(but I had 7 weeks worth in total, so I got 3 weeks paid out to me that went straight to the emergency fund).
I do check in with this thread on occasion, and it is obviously very popular. However.... am I the only one that finds some of the FU mentality a little sad? What I find sad is the desire to "stick it to the man" as a goal. I do not see it as healthy. I am not very fond of my boss, but I am under no illusions. When I leave in 4-6 years or so, I know I am replaceable. I will not be spending energy on "sticking it" to the boss. I believe that if some of the folks that have followed the FU approach could go back to their old jobs in a few days and weeks and find that life is just bobbing along nicely and that nothing has changed other than someone else is in your cubicle/job!
I do check in with this thread on occasion, and it is obviously very popular. However.... am I the only one that finds some of the FU mentality a little sad? What I find sad is the desire to "stick it to the man" as a goal. I do not see it as healthy. I am not very fond of my boss, but I am under no illusions. When I leave in 4-6 years or so, I know I am replaceable. I will not be spending energy on "sticking it" to the boss. I believe that if some of the folks that have followed the FU approach could go back to their old jobs in a few days and weeks and find that life is just bobbing along nicely and that nothing has changed other than someone else is in your cubicle/job!I think you hit the nail a glancing blow. I don't think these FU stories stem directly from a desire to stick it to the man. While pathetic and unhealthy, the peoples' sides of the stories must be told; how many times were they tread on, to galvanize them to arm themselves with the tool (FI) to fight back?
I do check in with this thread on occasion, and it is obviously very popular. However.... am I the only one that finds some of the FU mentality a little sad? What I find sad is the desire to "stick it to the man" as a goal. I do not see it as healthy. I am not very fond of my boss, but I am under no illusions. When I leave in 4-6 years or so, I know I am replaceable. I will not be spending energy on "sticking it" to the boss. I believe that if some of the folks that have followed the FU approach could go back to their old jobs in a few days and weeks and find that life is just bobbing along nicely and that nothing has changed other than someone else is in your cubicle/job!
I do check in with this thread on occasion, and it is obviously very popular. However.... am I the only one that finds some of the FU mentality a little sad? What I find sad is the desire to "stick it to the man" as a goal. I do not see it as healthy. I am not very fond of my boss, but I am under no illusions. When I leave in 4-6 years or so, I know I am replaceable. I will not be spending energy on "sticking it" to the boss. I believe that if some of the folks that have followed the FU approach could go back to their old jobs in a few days and weeks and find that life is just bobbing along nicely and that nothing has changed other than someone else is in your cubicle/job!
I see the FU mentality as healthy actually. Sometimes it is about sticking it to the man, but I've found that many of these stories are about people asserting their right to have good working conditions. I don't think anyone is trying to screw over their employer just 'cause, and I'm sure most of the companies are able to recover. The point is that the people here were able to improve their own life by moving to a less toxic workplace without suffering financial stress. That seems healthy to me.
This is state dependent. For example, vacation is earned hours in CA, and you have to pay it out.A few weeks later, I get a letter in the mail saying that for not working my notice, I did not get paid out 1 month's worth of vacation time that I had saved up(but I had 7 weeks worth in total, so I got 3 weeks paid out to me that went straight to the emergency fund).
Speaking of employment laws, I have my doubts that failing to paying out vacation (which is earned hours) is legal either.
I have trouble seeing how people can be productive working that many hours doing anything that requires thought. Where I work we are very aware of "negative work" ie you are working at your desk but making so many mistakes or making stupid/bad decisions that the project would be better off with you not putting in those hours. Different industries or different tasks I guess.You mean the entire legal services industry? Those folks at Biglaw are getting $100k bonuses, but they usually have to have over 1600 (1800 next year) Billable AND Chargeable hours to get it. That means they are actually working A LOT more than that.
I agree. The goal for me isn't to screw over my employer - it's to prevent the opposite.
I agree. The goal for me isn't to screw over my employer - it's to prevent the opposite.
THIS. THIS X1000.
Thanks for the reasoned responses Diane C, Shane, and pachnik. I also have FU money and certainly feel more relaxed/empowered at work, so I see what you are saying. To narrow it down, my concern is more that folks may really think that they are irreplaceable and "sticking it to the man" will leave some kind of lasting legacy.Hey mancityfan, it's nice that you responded to the feedback. I hear your concern, but I really think it's that everybody loves a good "Fuck You" money story, whether they have it or are still working to amass some. In fact, if you read through the entire thread, some of the best stories involve people who had FU money and bowed out to protect others who were not so well positioned. Saving someone else's livelihood is the kind of lasting legacy a mustachian can really feel good about. I also kinda doubt that very many mustachians feel they are irreplaceable, at least as far as a job goes...the whole RE goal is to work for as short a period as possible. I think most folks are planning on using their post-FIRE years to create their lasting legacies, not their working years.
Hey mancityfan, it's nice that you responded to the feedback. I hear your concern, but I really think it's that everybody loves a good "Fuck You" money story, whether they have it or are still working to amass some. In fact, if you read through the entire thread, some of the best stories involve people who had FU money and bowed out to protect others who were not so well positioned. Saving someone else's livelihood is the kind of lasting legacy a mustachian can really feel good about. I also kinda doubt that very many mustachians feel they are irreplaceable, at least as far as a job goes...the whole RE goal is to work for as short a period as possible. I think most folks are planning on using their post-FIRE years to create their lasting legacies, not their working years.
So, in light of the recent discussion regarding FU money and choices, I pose the question: If I do not have enough FU money to be completely FIRE, doesn't using the 'Stash or FIRE/FU money for living expenses delay FIRE?
and some of us aren't really here for FIRE. I'm here for FU money.So, in light of the recent discussion regarding FU money and choices, I pose the question: If I do not have enough FU money to be completely FIRE, doesn't using the 'Stash or FIRE/FU money for living expenses delay FIRE?
Of course using FU money to walk away could delay FIRE. It could also accelerate it (by getting you into a higher paying job, quicker, giving you the courage to look for something else knowing you have that safety net, etc.).
It's more likely to delay your FIRE if you're using the FU money to quit with nothing else lined up.
But it may well be worth it. Quality of life > a slightly quicker FIRE.
and some of us aren't really here for FIRE. I'm here for FU money.So, in light of the recent discussion regarding FU money and choices, I pose the question: If I do not have enough FU money to be completely FIRE, doesn't using the 'Stash or FIRE/FU money for living expenses delay FIRE?
Of course using FU money to walk away could delay FIRE. It could also accelerate it (by getting you into a higher paying job, quicker, giving you the courage to look for something else knowing you have that safety net, etc.).
It's more likely to delay your FIRE if you're using the FU money to quit with nothing else lined up.
But it may well be worth it. Quality of life > a slightly quicker FIRE.
Right reb, and I'm finding that the closer I get to FI, the less likely I am to use the FU money. A healthy balance is needed, otherwise when you are SO averse to spending any FU money, you're in the same predicament as someone without FU or EF money.
Ultimately I'd think everyone would be here for FI money, not just FU money, even if you don't want to ER.
And that was, in essence, their question: would you use the FU money to delay FI? I think the answer, in general, should be yes. Stick it out as long as you can, but then use it for its purpose.
If you aren't even going for ER than the answer is an even more clear yes.
But I'd think everyone would want FI, not just FU money. Right? Is there anyone just looking for FU money for a little safety and that's it?
Right reb, and I'm finding that the closer I get to FI, the less likely I am to use the FU money. A healthy balance is needed, otherwise when you are SO averse to spending any FU money, you're in the same predicament as someone without FU or EF money.
Ultimately I'd think everyone would be here for FI money, not just FU money, even if you don't want to ER.
And that was, in essence, their question: would you use the FU money to delay FI? I think the answer, in general, should be yes. Stick it out as long as you can, but then use it for its purpose.
If you aren't even going for ER than the answer is an even more clear yes.
But I'd think everyone would want FI, not just FU money. Right? Is there anyone just looking for FU money for a little safety and that's it?
On the one hand, I commend people for leaving a toxic work environment, especially when they have the easy financial means to do it. On the other, some of these stories leave me thinking good people are letting the occasional asshole get the better of them, and that by leaving they're just letting the asshole disrupt the good person's life and continue to merrily abuse everyone else who remains.
So maybe a "FU, I'm staying and standing up to the devil" story.... Public education has gotten more and more politicized with leaders coming to districts, ruining them on a variety of fiscal, quality of working life and instructional levels, and then leaving before the shit hits the fan to go somewhere else and do the same thing for more money. My experience was that they attempted to toss me out with the trash as they had done with so many before me who got fired or forced to quit due to extreme mistreatment. Keep in mind, people leave education RARELY once in for 15-20 years as the pension payout is a big consideration. Long story, but I fought, and won the first round of getting my deserved job back. They have tricks for getting around the union but did not expect me to fight back, thus left themselves wide open due to obvious discrimination and breach of contract. However, the treatment received AFTER they knew I was fighting was horrific and continued to last for 6 months. More fighting, to be continued, but once the tide turned it felt really good to know that I stood up for myself but at a cost to myself and my family. I would make the same decision as I am horribly allergic to bullies and unfairness but through my experience I totally understand why people walk away. The EEOC worker told me that a lot of people are mistreated and discriminated against and very few fight it, and she said it's too bad cuz the majority of them would win.
Not quite epic, but the new boss wants to move everyone's offices around. Everyone else has been "yes men" trying to curry favor. I told him no thanks! If he moves me anyway, when I resign next spring, I will tell him that it was because he moved my office just to mess with him...
That will be delicious.
Is naming your price of "half the revenue" appropriate in that circumstance? Make a request they have to refuse and if they don't, you're FI in like 6 months?what revenue?
Good point. Um, half the funding? That should be a good number.Is naming your price of "half the revenue" appropriate in that circumstance? Make a request they have to refuse and if they don't, you're FI in like 6 months?what revenue?
And their daughter's hand, is the tradition - at least for C++ devs around hereGood point. Um, half the funding? That should be a good number.Is naming your price of "half the revenue" appropriate in that circumstance? Make a request they have to refuse and if they don't, you're FI in like 6 months?what revenue?
Has anyone here ever actually followed through on an offer like that? I've never been in the situation, but I think it would be fun to play around with the jerks just a little bit. I wouldn't ask for anything completely ridiculous, but maybe 2.5x salary with one-half upfront as a "retention bonus" (and with no claw-back provisions attached) just to see if they'd bite.
First one to bail, before the raise even, a critical employee. First they counter. He says no. Then they say" name your price. "
Has anyone here ever actually followed through on an offer like that? I've never been in the situation, but I think it would be fun to play around with the jerks just a little bit. I wouldn't ask for anything completely ridiculous, but maybe 2.5x salary with one-half upfront as a "retention bonus" (and with no claw-back provisions attached) just to see if they'd bite.
Seriously? The time to handle this was months ago.
Seriously? The time to handle this was months ago.
How often do I have this exact feeling?
Even if a current employer eventually offers terms I'm willing to accept, it would irritate me that they only expressed willingness to change the terms of my employment after I threaten to leave or announce that I'm leaving.
If they think that strategy works for them, great, but I don't have to enable or encourage it.
Seriously? The time to handle this was months ago.
How often do I have this exact feeling?
Even if a current employer eventually offers terms I'm willing to accept, it would irritate me that they only expressed willingness to change the terms of my employment after I threaten to leave or announce that I'm leaving.
If they think that strategy works for them, great, but I don't have to enable or encourage it.
I agree-- if I was that valuable of an employee, then perhaps they should've offered that before I quit. :P
Seriously? The time to handle this was months ago.
How often do I have this exact feeling?
Even if a current employer eventually offers terms I'm willing to accept, it would irritate me that they only expressed willingness to change the terms of my employment after I threaten to leave or announce that I'm leaving.
If they think that strategy works for them, great, but I don't have to enable or encourage it.
I agree-- if I was that valuable of an employee, then perhaps they should've offered that before I quit. :P
I disagree. You guys are taking it too personal. Before you quit, you came to work everyday at the agreed upon rate. It's not the employer's fault if you negotiated a poor pay package upfront. There is an unspoken agreement everyday you go into the office that you are OK working for the agreed upon rate. You need to be willing to walk away (quit) to get that rate changed and show that you aren't OK working for the current rate.
No, you just keep your best people trained. You keep them up to speed with all the new languages and they will be trained by who you want them to be trained by and not who ended up training them by chance.You need to train your people but it's not the same thing as fresh blood:
No, you just keep your best people trained. You keep them up to speed with all the new languages and they will be trained by who you want them to be trained by and not who ended up training them by chance.You need to train your people but it's not the same thing as fresh blood:
I disagree. You guys are taking it too personal. Before you quit, you came to work everyday at the agreed upon rate. It's not the employer's fault if you negotiated a poor pay package upfront. There is an unspoken agreement everyday you go into the office that you are OK working for the agreed upon rate. You need to be willing to walk away (quit) to get that rate changed and show that you aren't OK working for the current rate.
Seriously? The time to handle this was months ago.
How often do I have this exact feeling?
Even if a current employer eventually offers terms I'm willing to accept, it would irritate me that they only expressed willingness to change the terms of my employment after I threaten to leave or announce that I'm leaving.
If they think that strategy works for them, great, but I don't have to enable or encourage it.
I agree-- if I was that valuable of an employee, then perhaps they should've offered that before I quit. :P
Seriously? The time to handle this was months ago.
How often do I have this exact feeling?
Even if a current employer eventually offers terms I'm willing to accept, it would irritate me that they only expressed willingness to change the terms of my employment after I threaten to leave or announce that I'm leaving.
If they think that strategy works for them, great, but I don't have to enable or encourage it.
I agree-- if I was that valuable of an employee, then perhaps they should've offered that before I quit. :P
I disagree. You guys are taking it too personal. Before you quit, you came to work everyday at the agreed upon rate. It's not the employer's fault if you negotiated a poor pay package upfront. There is an unspoken agreement everyday you go into the office that you are OK working for the agreed upon rate. You need to be willing to walk away (quit) to get that rate changed and show that you aren't OK working for the current rate.
Thanks Diane C - but don't worry - I'm okay. I too feel like I'm playing hooky sometimes and it feels great. I just know that if I had been laid off, it may have felt like rejection. But, I can't say for sure, as I controlled my own FIRE.
As much as I usually don't give a shit about what people think, there is that small part of me that does. I can't pretend it away. But that's okay. I'm a social human.
I'm puzzled by this, though: I would think layoffs would generally be driven by the financial health of the organisation, and therefore not reflect badly on the staff laid off? It had never actually occurred to me that someone would construe it as somehow reflecting badly on the person laid off - it's not like being individually sacked: they are generally letting lots of people go, and it could be for reasons like major projects winding down, relocations, etc.It hurts to not be a "chosen one".
I went through a layoff at my last job, worst work day of my life. And not because I was chosen either. So many great people who had dedicated their lives to that company were let go. People who had been friends for 30+ years hurriedly exchanging phone numbers as they were called out.
The worst part is that I was NOT dedicated to that job or that company, so I watched people who I thought should have kept their jobs leave while I kept my job but didn't really want it. It was heart-rending. The next year they asked for volunteers, I volunteered. Hopefully someone who really loved it there got to stay because of me leaving.
So sometimes it's not good to be kept on after a major layoff, it can just suck majorly.
A colleague friend of mine, originally from the UK, uses the term sacked for all types of employment termination, I think. I don't think that works for US audiences though.
A few years ago, I was surprised to find out that some people I know, originally from the US I think, distinguish between being fired versus being laid off:
- Being fired meaning a company terminated employment due to poor performance
- Being laid off meaning a company terminated employment due to reorganization, downsizing, and so on
Because I don't think many people would volunteer to family, friends, or potential employers that they were fired for poor performance, I figured anyone who makes the distinction wouldn't say they were fired anyway. Meaning, even if they were in fact fired for poor performance, they'd say they were laid off.
The point being, I was using the terms interchangeably, not realizing others might have been attaching different meanings to the terms.
A colleague friend of mine, originally from the UK, uses the term sacked for all types of employment termination, I think. I don't think that works for US audiences though.
Because I don't think many people would volunteer to family, friends, or potential employers that they were fired for poor performance, I figured anyone who makes the distinction wouldn't say they were fired anyway. Meaning, even if they were in fact fired for poor performance, they'd say they were laid off.I have friends who were honest about getting fired. They're the only kind worth having. ;)
The point being, I was using the terms interchangeably, not realizing others might have been attaching different meanings to the terms.
A few years ago, I was surprised to find out that some people I know, originally from the US I think, distinguish between being fired versus being laid off:
- Being fired meaning a company terminated employment due to poor performance
- Being laid off meaning a company terminated employment due to reorganization, downsizing, and so on
Because I don't think many people would volunteer to family, friends, or potential employers that they were fired for poor performance, I figured anyone who makes the distinction wouldn't say they were fired anyway. Meaning, even if they were in fact fired for poor performance, they'd say they were laid off.
The point being, I was using the terms interchangeably, not realizing others might have been attaching different meanings to the terms.
A colleague friend of mine, originally from the UK, uses the term sacked for all types of employment termination, I think. I don't think that works for US audiences though.
I've heard friends and family use "fired" to describe when the were indeed fired.
A few years ago, I was surprised to find out that some people I know, originally from the US I think, distinguish between being fired versus being laid off:
- Being fired meaning a company terminated employment due to poor performance
- Being laid off meaning a company terminated employment due to reorganization, downsizing, and so on
Because I don't think many people would volunteer to family, friends, or potential employers that they were fired for poor performance, I figured anyone who makes the distinction wouldn't say they were fired anyway. Meaning, even if they were in fact fired for poor performance, they'd say they were laid off.
The point being, I was using the terms interchangeably, not realizing others might have been attaching different meanings to the terms.
A colleague friend of mine, originally from the UK, uses the term sacked for all types of employment termination, I think. I don't think that works for US audiences though.
I've heard friends and family use "fired" to describe when the were indeed fired.
I've never known anyone to use the terms interchangeably.
Also it seems totally irrelevant what terminology you would use with a potential employer, as most can and will call your former employer anyway, and your former employer will almost certainly not have an issue using the term fired if you were in fact fired for any reason (poor performance, sexual harassment, stealing, damaging company property, etc).This is in fact not true. Legally it's a big problem, specifically in California. (I can't speak for other areas)
Also it seems totally irrelevant what terminology you would use with a potential employer, as most can and will call your former employer anyway, and your former employer will almost certainly not have an issue using the term fired if you were in fact fired for any reason (poor performance, sexual harassment, stealing, damaging company property, etc).This is in fact not true. Legally it's a big problem, specifically in California. (I can't speak for other areas)
We've been instructed by our HR that if we are called for reference for former employees, we are ONLY allowed to confirm their employment. Otherwise, it can be construed as interfering with a person's livelihood.
(I mean, all sorts of back door phone calls happen anyway, when you know someone who knows someone.) By the way, this goes for good AND bad employees.
Its a liability issue. I listed my former supervisor at a govt agency as a reference and he flat out refused to say anything other than referring them to HR. I finally had to call and ask a personal favor before he would give an OK reference. Every other supervisor was more than happy to say something.
Also it seems totally irrelevant what terminology you would use with a potential employer, as most can and will call your former employer anyway, and your former employer will almost certainly not have an issue using the term fired if you were in fact fired for any reason (poor performance, sexual harassment, stealing, damaging company property, etc).This is in fact not true. Legally it's a big problem, specifically in California. (I can't speak for other areas)
We've been instructed by our HR that if we are called for reference for former employees, we are ONLY allowed to confirm their employment. Otherwise, it can be construed as interfering with a person's livelihood.
(I mean, all sorts of back door phone calls happen anyway, when you know someone who knows someone.) By the way, this goes for good AND bad employees.
Also it seems totally irrelevant what terminology you would use with a potential employer, as most can and will call your former employer anyway, and your former employer will almost certainly not have an issue using the term fired if you were in fact fired for any reason (poor performance, sexual harassment, stealing, damaging company property, etc).This is in fact not true. Legally it's a big problem, specifically in California. (I can't speak for other areas)
We've been instructed by our HR that if we are called for reference for former employees, we are ONLY allowed to confirm their employment. Otherwise, it can be construed as interfering with a person's livelihood.
(I mean, all sorts of back door phone calls happen anyway, when you know someone who knows someone.) By the way, this goes for good AND bad employees.
In my state it is the same way. The only thing that anyone can do is confirm that someone worked here.
California
Cal. Civ. Code § 47(c); Cal. Lab. Code §§ 1053, 1055
Information that may be disclosed:
• job performance
• reasons for termination or separation
• knowledge, qualifications, skills, or abilities based upon credible evidence
• eligibility for rehire
Who may request or receive information:
• prospective employer
Employer required to write letter:
• public utility companies only
Also it seems totally irrelevant what terminology you would use with a potential employer, as most can and will call your former employer anyway, and your former employer will almost certainly not have an issue using the term fired if you were in fact fired for any reason (poor performance, sexual harassment, stealing, damaging company property, etc).This is in fact not true. Legally it's a big problem, specifically in California. (I can't speak for other areas)
We've been instructed by our HR that if we are called for reference for former employees, we are ONLY allowed to confirm their employment. Otherwise, it can be construed as interfering with a person's livelihood.
(I mean, all sorts of back door phone calls happen anyway, when you know someone who knows someone.) By the way, this goes for good AND bad employees.
Really? I don't have any first hand experience, but I always thought that was the purpose of calling former employers. Seems really pointless if they are not allowed to disclose any information other than the person did in fact worked there (or not). I mean if you were fired for a violent offense, or stealing/damaging company property, or not being able to perform your job (i've worked with people that could not perform basic tasks that were fundamental to their job) it would be critical information to the new employer. It also defies the entire premise of a reference. I mean what good is a reference if all my former employer can legally say is "yes frugalnacho worked here until X date"?
EDIT: I'm not a lawyer, but every single source I am finding on a quick google search is telling me you are wrong. Your company may in fact have this policy, but the first 5 sources I checked said this is a common misconception and there is in fact no laws barring an employer from disclosing that information if they choose to.
As has been established in this thread and countless other threads on the forum the HR department of most companies are usually divorced from reality, have policies that don't make logical sense, and are usually ill informed. I understand erring on the side of caution and not wanting to bad mouth an employee (even if true) for liability reasons*, but I can't think of any reason not to give a positive recommendation for a phenomenal employee.
* Actually I don't understand it after reading up on the laws. It seems most states not only are you allowed to disclose that information, but many states have specifically drafted immunity laws to protect former employers for this exact situation.
As has been established in this thread and countless other threads on the forum the HR department of most companies are usually divorced from reality, have policies that don't make logical sense, and are usually ill informed. I understand erring on the side of caution and not wanting to bad mouth an employee (even if true) for liability reasons*, but I can't think of any reason not to give a positive recommendation for a phenomenal employee.
* Actually I don't understand it after reading up on the laws. It seems most states not only are you allowed to disclose that information, but many states have specifically drafted immunity laws to protect former employers for this exact situation.
I know that the reason my last company had the “Yes he worked here” or “No, he did not work here” policy was the following true story, although I’m not sure if it was my former company or another one that had the experience:
A guy was hired, and he regularly brought a gun to work—in a secured office with little chance of anything happening. Not only did he bring it, he put it on his desk while he was working. This made a lot of people uncomfortable. When the company tried to tell them, he went all 2nd amendment on them. It was going to be a long tedious process of either firing him and having lawsuits, or figuring out a way to not let the guy bring it in. Eventually they paid him off with a severance package and a glowing letter of recommendation (and his work was phenomenal), and he got a new job. About 5 months into the new job, he goes off the deep end and kills someone with the gun.
The company that had hired him went after the company that wrote the recommendation. Not sure what the outcome was.
Not when you can consider the employee could sue for slander/libel if he doesn't like the tone. Just easier to say "Yes" or "No".
Not when you can consider the employee could sue for slander/libel if he doesn't like the tone. Just easier to say "Yes" or "No".
But they can't, i've already posted the laws saying they can't. It's not slander/libel if it's true.
Not when you can consider the employee could sue for slander/libel if he doesn't like the tone. Just easier to say "Yes" or "No".
But they can't, i've already posted the laws saying they can't. It's not slander/libel if it's true. The real issue is whether he has a right to carry a fire arm into work and whether he can be fired for that reason. Most job sites I work on (in several states) have a very strict no firearm policy. You are not even allowed to have it in your car on company property, and almost every one of them stresses this fact before we are allowed onsite, and they also have it posted near all the entrance gates. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that none of these large multi-billion dollar companies are violating the law by not allowing firearms onsite, because they all do it, and they all have been doing it for my entire career. Your company absolutely could have a made a no firearm policy, and fired him for violating that (after the rule was established and he was made aware of it obviously), and they could have absolutely disclosed that fact to other potential employers and could not have been sued over it.
Its a liability issue. I listed my former supervisor at a govt agency as a reference and he flat out refused to say anything other than referring them to HR. I finally had to call and ask a personal favor before he would give an OK reference. Every other supervisor was more than happy to say something.
I didn't include it in my post above, but the one caveat all those sources mentioned is that the information must be true. That shouldn't really have to be listed as a caveat though. If you get fired for stealing, what liability is the company assuming by relaying that fact to potential employers? I could understand if they suspected you of something but couldn't prove it, but fired you anyway because it's an at-will agreement and they can fire you, that they shouldn't be allowed to pass on that information. But if it's factual I don't understand where the liability comes into play.
Large tech companies up here won't fire you for poor performance because it's ... just ... too ... much ... trouble. It's cheaper to "lay you off"If you are only getting rid of one person there isn't usually much difference between "fired" and "redundancy".
Also it seems totally irrelevant what terminology you would use with a potential employer, as most can and will call your former employer anyway, and your former employer will almost certainly not have an issue using the term fired if you were in fact fired for any reason (poor performance, sexual harassment, stealing, damaging company property, etc).This is in fact not true. Legally it's a big problem, specifically in California. (I can't speak for other areas)
We've been instructed by our HR that if we are called for reference for former employees, we are ONLY allowed to confirm their employment. Otherwise, it can be construed as interfering with a person's livelihood.
(I mean, all sorts of back door phone calls happen anyway, when you know someone who knows someone.) By the way, this goes for good AND bad employees.
In my state it is the same way. The only thing that anyone can do is confirm that someone worked here.
Are you sure this is state law and not just your companies HR policy?
As for mm1970's state of california this is the information I found:QuoteCalifornia
Cal. Civ. Code § 47(c); Cal. Lab. Code §§ 1053, 1055
Information that may be disclosed:
• job performance
• reasons for termination or separation
• knowledge, qualifications, skills, or abilities based upon credible evidence
• eligibility for rehire
Who may request or receive information:
• prospective employer
Employer required to write letter:
• public utility companies only
Not that I intentionally want to be argumentative, but I trust the actual laws of california rather than what your HR department has relayed to you. Maybe I am mistaken, but I just went and read the law for myself and it seems like they certainly can disclose the reason you were fired to a potential employer that asks.
Here is one that actually is relevant to the topic
The setting was a Government agency, during a reorg placing employees is top priority. Often the displaced person in a new position is unwelcome. Even treated hostile. Sometimes it’s a bad fit of job skills, sometimes it is simply the manager not getting to fill the position with who they would have chosen.
Samuel was placed in our office and was a bad fit and was not warmly received by our micromanager boss, Barb. She lived to walk around each morning to see who came in on time, pour over time sheets, and check documents for proper punctuation but rarely added much content or value to the process. Samuel was quiet and put up with this for 3 ½ years rarely divulging much about himself. He always brought in his own lunch, occasionally mentioned his rental properties and drove a Toyota from early last decade. He was sure proud of his later-in-life small child who was in every picture with his stay at home wife pictures that covered his desk. Unassuming is the word that would describe this guy, you could easily overlook him.
One day, on a Wednesday Barb came by and asked if anyone had heard from Samuel, he had been on vacation for two weeks and was due back Monday. She only had his landline and he had shut it off some time ago. Was he alright? She did not want to be inconvenienced to drive over to his home to check on him so she reported him AWOL, Absent without Leave. Off went the report. I am sure that she spent all morning documenting that she did everything right, all according with the appropriate regulation. HR, said he is not AWOL, he is retired.
HE CAN”T RETIRE! Barb said! He did get me to sign off on that!
Now that is a FU story.
HE CAN”T RETIRE! Barb said! He did get me to sign off on that!Dude, the way my command tracks HR actions, I don't think I could pull that off, but I can imagine situations in which I'd try.
haha, FUCK YOU BARB!
Go Samuel, made me smile.
haha, FUCK YOU BARB!
For some reason that reminded me of this "retirement" scene in the movie Wanted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH7CXtxOflI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH7CXtxOflI)
I work for a large high tech company. I often got a chuckle over how they would be selective about hiring, claiming that they wanted only "the best talent".
Of course the salary structure was unimpressive. When asked about increasing salaries for engineers the official response was that the pay was "competitive and consistent with the industry average". LOL
So, basically they want to hire the best but expect to pay the average. Of, course life doesn't work that way and the "best" would leave for elsewhere.
LOL : )
I work for a large high tech company. I often got a chuckle over how they would be selective about hiring, claiming that they wanted only "the best talent".
Of course the salary structure was unimpressive. When asked about increasing salaries for engineers the official response was that the pay was "competitive and consistent with the industry average". LOL
So, basically they want to hire the best but expect to pay the average. Of, course life doesn't work that way and the "best" would leave for elsewhere.
LOL : )
And then, if they're anything like my old company, they've have eternal and endless 'all management' meetings to discuss the 'retention issue'. Of course, suggestions like 'enable flex time arrangements', or 'pay them what they're worth and what they're leaving for because others are paying those salaries right down the street', were rejected.
There's a reason I'm no longer working there, is all I'm sayin...
I work for a large high tech company. I often got a chuckle over how they would be selective about hiring, claiming that they wanted only "the best talent".We just wasted half a day in a meeting about recruitment problems presented by a bunch of expensive HR consultants waving an expensive report (we paid $x0,000 for) which shows average salaries in our area and nationally - and picked the lowest.
Of course the salary structure was unimpressive. When asked about increasing salaries for engineers the official response was that the pay was "competitive and consistent with the industry average".
Don't think I'm invited to the next meeting
It's truly amazing how much inertia, apathy, and lack of common sense there is in middle management. I'm truly lucky to have the super I do. He fought for alternate work schedules, is now fighting for routine telework, etc.I work for a large high tech company. I often got a chuckle over how they would be selective about hiring, claiming that they wanted only "the best talent".And then, if they're anything like my old company, they've have eternal and endless 'all management' meetings to discuss the 'retention issue'. Of course, suggestions like 'enable flex time arrangements', or 'pay them what they're worth and what they're leaving for because others are paying those salaries right down the street', were rejected.
Of course the salary structure was unimpressive. When asked about increasing salaries for engineers the official response was that the pay was "competitive and consistent with the industry average". LOL
So, basically they want to hire the best but expect to pay the average. Of, course life doesn't work that way and the "best" would leave for elsewhere.
LOL : )
There's a reason I'm no longer working there, is all I'm sayin...
I work for a large high tech company. I often got a chuckle over how they would be selective about hiring, claiming that they wanted only "the best talent".We just wasted half a day in a meeting about recruitment problems presented by a bunch of expensive HR consultants waving an expensive report (we paid $x0,000 for) which shows average salaries in our area and nationally - and picked the lowest.
Of course the salary structure was unimpressive. When asked about increasing salaries for engineers the official response was that the pay was "competitive and consistent with the industry average".
I attempted to point out that paying the average meant you get the people that 50% of your competitors rejected.
That salary surveys under-report the truth because they faithfully count lots of low end salary jobs and don't count the secretly negotiated salaries of rock star programmers
And that we might want to look at remote workers given that we are located in one of the worlds highest COL cities
Don't think I'm invited to the next meeting
I'm truly lucky to have the super I do.This can make all the difference.
I fought for that stuff back when I was a manager. It was super hard. In our case, it was hands on shift work, so what I fought for was a shift differential. I eventually won, but then they took it away, because my employees were salaried. "We don't have to give it to them." "No, but it's fucking shitty that you are requiring them to work 6 pm to 6 am and on weekends. You give the differential to the hourly employees, so you are just being an ass."It's truly amazing how much inertia, apathy, and lack of common sense there is in middle management. I'm truly lucky to have the super I do. He fought for alternate work schedules, is now fighting for routine telework, etc.I work for a large high tech company. I often got a chuckle over how they would be selective about hiring, claiming that they wanted only "the best talent".And then, if they're anything like my old company, they've have eternal and endless 'all management' meetings to discuss the 'retention issue'. Of course, suggestions like 'enable flex time arrangements', or 'pay them what they're worth and what they're leaving for because others are paying those salaries right down the street', were rejected.
Of course the salary structure was unimpressive. When asked about increasing salaries for engineers the official response was that the pay was "competitive and consistent with the industry average". LOL
So, basically they want to hire the best but expect to pay the average. Of, course life doesn't work that way and the "best" would leave for elsewhere.
LOL : )
There's a reason I'm no longer working there, is all I'm sayin...
It's so bad (good) that I'm losing my zeal for FIRE.... ahahaha
I work for a large high tech company. I often got a chuckle over how they would be selective about hiring, claiming that they wanted only "the best talent".
Of course the salary structure was unimpressive. When asked about increasing salaries for engineers the official response was that the pay was "competitive and consistent with the industry average". LOL
So, basically they want to hire the best but expect to pay the average. Of, course life doesn't work that way and the "best" would leave for elsewhere.
LOL : )
And then, if they're anything like my old company, they've have eternal and endless 'all management' meetings to discuss the 'retention issue'. Of course, suggestions like 'enable flex time arrangements', or 'pay them what they're worth and what they're leaving for because others are paying those salaries right down the street', were rejected.
There's a reason I'm no longer working there, is all I'm sayin...
... I'm not about to allow them to attribute an answer to me, at which point it becomes a verbal commitment.
...
... I'm not about to allow them to attribute an answer to me, at which point it becomes a verbal commitment.
...
Saying you intend to stay for X years could be legally binding in your country?!?!? Like if you left early they could sue or deny retirement benefits due to losses because you had left?
I work for a large high tech company. I often got a chuckle over how they would be selective about hiring, claiming that they wanted only "the best talent".We just wasted half a day in a meeting about recruitment problems presented by a bunch of expensive HR consultants waving an expensive report (we paid $x0,000 for) which shows average salaries in our area and nationally - and picked the lowest.
Of course the salary structure was unimpressive. When asked about increasing salaries for engineers the official response was that the pay was "competitive and consistent with the industry average".
I attempted to point out that paying the average meant you get the people that 50% of your competitors rejected.
That salary surveys under-report the truth because they faithfully count lots of low end salary jobs and don't count the secretly negotiated salaries of rock star programmers
And that we might want to look at remote workers given that we are located in one of the worlds highest COL cities
Don't think I'm invited to the next meeting
I was 18 months into working for my current employer, and two guys in another group approached me about joining their group to fill an empty role. Great. They talked about more visibility, responsibility, etc etc etc. I eventually agreed, and then they went to HR to get them to make me an offer. HR determined I was already highly paid, and they'd give me $0.00 to move. I balked, and eventually a promise by the CEO to help me out come raise time got me to take the role, and in fairness, he did come through for me; got about a $7k raise (about $2500 of which I would have gotten as a COL increase anyways). That put me around $92k IIRC. And I worked about 5 months in the new role at the old pay.
I did well, and a year later I was promoted again, to managing my old role. This time they did a reasonable job taking care of me $$-wise. So I put out a req for my old role, and HR told me I had a budget of $90k to hire someone. Eventually decided on a candidate (external) and the HR guys came back and said to hire that guy, we need to offer $99k, 10% over my budget. I asked, uh, what can we do, and they said, oh don't worry, go ahead with the $99k offer. WTF?
So for a guy, me, who was approached about filling a role, came with a proven track record at the company, I had to fight for a raise and got ~8%, of which a third I was going to get anyways.
OTOH, for someone who was entirely unknown, no history at all, external hire, we paid him 10% over our plan (and $7k over what I was getting for the same role) with no blinks or hesitation at all.
Doesn't make sense to me at all. And by the way, guy we hired turned out to be a shithead we've almost fired 2x now and is on "double secret probation".
... I'm not about to allow them to attribute an answer to me, at which point it becomes a verbal commitment.
...
Saying you intend to stay for X years could be legally binding in your country?!?!? Like if you left early they could sue or deny retirement benefits due to losses because you had left?
... I'm not about to allow them to attribute an answer to me, at which point it becomes a verbal commitment.
...
Saying you intend to stay for X years could be legally binding in your country?!?!? Like if you left early they could sue or deny retirement benefits due to losses because you had left?
... I'm not about to allow them to attribute an answer to me, at which point it becomes a verbal commitment.
...
Saying you intend to stay for X years could be legally binding in your country?!?!? Like if you left early they could sue or deny retirement benefits due to losses because you had left?
I have no idea whether it is legally binding in my country, but I'd also rather not have to find out.
Asking the question to me is just as unacceptable as me asking him if the company is going to lay me off/fire me/sack me/terminate my employment agreement in that time period. He wouldn't answer that question, so I can't understand why they think I would answer their question for attribution. Anonymously, maybe.
"I have no plans to resign or retire."
Unless you have a signed offer letter in hand from another employer, you don't have a plan.
I did well, and a year later I was promoted again, to managing my old role. This time they did a reasonable job taking care of me $$-wise. So I put out a req for my old role, and HR told me I had a budget of $90k to hire someone. Eventually decided on a candidate (external) and the HR guys came back and said to hire that guy, we need to offer $99k, 10% over my budget. I asked, uh, what can we do, and they said, oh don't worry, go ahead with the $99k offer. WTF?
So for a guy, me, who was approached about filling a role, came with a proven track record at the company, I had to fight for a raise and got ~8%, of which a third I was going to get anyways.
OTOH, for someone who was entirely unknown, no history at all, external hire, we paid him 10% over our plan (and $7k over what I was getting for the same role) with no blinks or hesitation at all.
Doesn't make sense to me at all. And by the way, guy we hired turned out to be a shithead we've almost fired 2x now and is on "double secret probation".
I did well, and a year later I was promoted again, to managing my old role. This time they did a reasonable job taking care of me $$-wise. So I put out a req for my old role, and HR told me I had a budget of $90k to hire someone. Eventually decided on a candidate (external) and the HR guys came back and said to hire that guy, we need to offer $99k, 10% over my budget. I asked, uh, what can we do, and they said, oh don't worry, go ahead with the $99k offer. WTF?
So for a guy, me, who was approached about filling a role, came with a proven track record at the company, I had to fight for a raise and got ~8%, of which a third I was going to get anyways.
OTOH, for someone who was entirely unknown, no history at all, external hire, we paid him 10% over our plan (and $7k over what I was getting for the same role) with no blinks or hesitation at all.
Doesn't make sense to me at all. And by the way, guy we hired turned out to be a shithead we've almost fired 2x now and is on "double secret probation".
Yep, the only way to get real raises is to change companies during a boom. A company that hires does so because they recognize an immediate need; the company that you move from only recognizes that you're not worth firing. Ergo, a company that is hiring is motivated to pay more.
I think FU money is something that employers should encourage. Who would you want working with you, people who actually want to be there or people who feel like they have no choice? Don't companies always say they want engagement? I don't think engagement happens when people feel trapped.
Love the WalMart guy story. A great example of how financial stability/security preserves our dignity. When you are enslaved to paycheck-to-paycheck living, you may need to set your dignity aside if you want to eat that month.
I don't have an FU story but after this past week, I want to get to that point more than ever.
I work as an engineer and about six months ago we hired another "engineer". I use the quotes because he does not have an engineering degree, just tons of experience from being out in the field. This past week we had a piece of equipment that had failed in the field and has been replaced three time prior by an exact copy but new piece of equipment each time. The "engineer" had called for it to be replaced again and I told the field guys to leave it until someone proves the equipment is truly defective, and not actually miscoordinating. The "engineer" sent me an email and included the guys in my group as well. He asked me to explain to him why I superseded his judgement. Side note, he and I are the same level and pay but he is twice my age. With FU money, I would be able to respond back with "please find attached a copy of MY engineering degree for your reference. If you need further explanation, please note the PE initials following my name. They roughly translate to I am the expert!"
Until the moment I have FU money, I have to bite my tongue and play the politics to keep building up my FU fund. Or wait two years when I'm the engineering manager and then he'll be thinking twice about what he says.
A guy was hired, and he regularly brought a gun to work—in a secured office with little chance of anything happening. Not only did he bring it, he put it on his desk while he was working. This made a lot of people uncomfortable. When the company tried to tell them, he went all 2nd amendment on them. It was going to be a long tedious process of either firing him and having lawsuits, or figuring out a way to not let the guy bring it in. Eventually they paid him off with a severance package and a glowing letter of recommendation
A degree makes you an expert. That's hilarious.
That being said, given the part had failed three times before and replaced three times, that suggests something else is wrong. So good call. Wrong reason.
It takes a lot more than a degree to get a PE cert. I was an engineer for years (with a degree) and never had one.Specifically it takes working for years at an old company.
A few years ago, I was surprised to find out that some people I know, originally from the US I think, distinguish between being fired versus being laid off:Because I don't think many people would volunteer to family, friends, or potential employers that they were fired for poor performance, I figured anyone who makes the distinction wouldn't say they were fired anyway. Meaning, even if they were in fact fired for poor performance, they'd say they were laid off.
- Being fired meaning a company terminated employment due to poor performance
- Being laid off meaning a company terminated employment due to reorganization, downsizing, and so on
The point being, I was using the terms interchangeably, not realizing others might have been attaching different meanings to the terms.
A colleague friend of mine, originally from the UK, uses the term sacked for all types of employment termination, I think. I don't think that works for US audiences though.
I've heard friends and family use "fired" to describe when the were indeed fired.
I've never known anyone to use the terms interchangeably.
A few years ago, I was surprised to find out that some people I know, originally from the US I think, distinguish between being fired versus being laid off:
- Being fired meaning a company terminated employment due to poor performance
- Being laid off meaning a company terminated employment due to reorganization, downsizing, and so on
Because I don't think many people would volunteer to family, friends, or potential employers that they were fired for poor performance, I figured anyone who makes the distinction wouldn't say they were fired anyway. Meaning, even if they were in fact fired for poor performance, they'd say they were laid off.
The point being, I was using the terms interchangeably, not realizing others might have been attaching different meanings to the terms.
A colleague friend of mine, originally from the UK, uses the term sacked for all types of employment termination, I think. I don't think that works for US audiences though.
I've heard friends and family use "fired" to describe when the were indeed fired.
I've never known anyone to use the terms interchangeably.
I use the term "shit-canned" pretty routinely.
... Co-workers were having breakdowns, going on meds, and getting divorces, but not quitting. ...
Not exactly an epic story, but a while back I changed jobs and decided to take a couple of months of paid leave to decompress between jobs. The leave was part annual leave and part long service leave. It was all approved and off I went. It took a while for the paperwork to trickle up the line and a boss somewhere near the top of the line decided to not approve the LSL component. Theoretically they can do that, but its pretty unusual. Apparently everyone in my dept was arguing about who's job it was to ring me up to tell me. Anyway the deal was come back to work or take leave without pay.So you got to have your cake and eat it too. Good on you! Thanks to you and homestead neohio for reviving this thread, it's one of my favorites.
Having very adequate FU money it was SO nice to not turn a hair and say I would take the leave without pay. People were quite shocked because everyone expected I would have to come back to work and couldn't survive 4 weeks or so with no income. Being public service, my leave entitlements are transferred with me, so sooner or later I'll be paid for the leave, so no loss to me.
If I was ready to walk away, why not just push back on the craziness instead of walking? Worst they'd do is relieve me of my position, which I was about to do myself. Every employment situation is different, but for me there were never any consequences of saying "no, I will not work then" or "I will not meet your [totally unrealistic] timeline, but can commit to getting that done by [realistic timeline]". If told, "that is unacceptable", I'd just say, "I'm sorry that what is possible is not acceptable to you." I tried to make it about my crazy manager's expectation problem, not my output problem, though it took energy to fend off the unrealistic expectations. I kept collecting my paycheck while looking for other jobs.
Don't be like me: A story of having FU money and not using it when you should. Friends, the biggest regret I have in my life so far is not quitting a toxic job when I should have, despite actually having adequate FU money to tide me over for quite awhile. I work in biglaw, with the high hours and high pressure that goes along with that. But more than that, I became the frog in boiling water over a two-year period, while my used-to-be-mentor found herself in a bad life crossroads and was essentially forced to come back to work under unfavorable terms. As a result, she set out to prove herself as large and in-charge, and show the firm that those silly associates just couldn't possibly have handled her responsibilities, as we had been doing without her for a year. In any event, the next two years of my life were buried in pure hell from her, as she was a huge bully, mean girl, moved deadlines to suit her and bury us, found countless ways to assert her power, etc. Almost every deadline from her was "ASAP," but it was not enough to meet her deadlines -- no, you had to beat them! I pointed out to her once that you cannot finish work any earlier than ASAP; by definition that is not possible. That point actually flustered her for a minute while she continued to berate me for, I kid you not, going to a committee lunch for half an hour about three months earlier (yes, this stuck in her craw for three months before she raised it!) because I "could have been billing" during that time but had the nerve to go eat; coming in on a Saturday at noon and staying till 8 p.m., though she had arrived that Saturday at 9 a.m. and stayed till 1 p.m., even though I had specifically cleared it with her ahead of time that I had a conflict in the morning and probably would not arrive until 1 p.m. (so I actually got in an hour early) -- oh, she also mocked me for arriving and asking, "how can I help?"; sending her an email with the results of my assignment at 10:01 a.m., when my deadline was 10 a.m.; and not looking upset enough by her complaints. I worked several weeks of all-nighters or only a few hours of sleep, developed stress-induced medical conditions (including one surgery, which made me rejoice for the break!), missed my grandmother's funeral to complete work for this lady (who knew her demand was causing me to miss the funeral, and she didn't even bother to thank me, and even got her henchman to tell me the very next week that "if I were being honest with myself, I'd know that I'm just not doing my best"), was strongly discouraged and told she was "disappointed" in me for going to take care of my father for a week after he was in a very bad accident, and this list could go on and on. At the worst of it, she poisoned a new co-worker against me and others, stirred that pot, intentionally saying different things to the different groups to cause fights and then giving advice that contradicted what she was telling the others so that we would complain about each other and she could presumably somehow be the one person not in the fray. This plan back-fired once our group realized the conniving shit that the boss lady was causing in an already stressful environment and the groups became friends again. She treated me and others terribly, and there were so many times I was so fed up and at the end of my rope, but I never said enough is enough. One awesome co-worker even told me that boss lady was abusing me and I shouldn't put up with it, but I was so lost, I sometimes even defended that boss lady, like she had a grain of truth good reason to be mean to me ("it's true, I did send that email at 10:01 and she asked for it by 10!". So crazy. I did go to the higher-ups and got some traction with them, although this b-lady was the golden child of the head of my group, which is why she always managed to get away with so much shit over these two years. In the end, while my talks with the higher-ups were at their peak, the dragon lady ended up quitting. I stayed through that, and I regret it every effing day. Don't be like me -- if you have FU money and the circumstances of your job suck, then use that FU money!!!
...As I approached my breaking point at work, I started to push back. If I was ready to walk away, why not just push back on the craziness instead of walking? Worst they'd do is relieve me of my position, which I was about to do myself. Every employment situation is different, but for me there were never any consequences of saying "no, I will not work then" or "I will not meet your [totally unrealistic] timeline, but can commit to getting that done by [realistic timeline]". If told, "that is unacceptable", I'd just say, "I'm sorry that what is possible is not acceptable to you." I tried to make it about my crazy manager's expectation problem, not my output problem, though it took energy to fend off the unrealistic expectations. I kept collecting my paycheck while looking for other jobs. There were still sacrifices including some minor health issues due to stress and being overall unhappy and irritable, which did affect my family life. I chose to accept this for a time as I did not know how long a job search would take given my desire to stay local and limited local employers in my field.
It would have immediately felt good to quit, but I suspect I would have gotten stressed over time if I was not finding employment, and I would have felt like I have to take the first thing that came along. This way I got to keep the 'stache for which I had worked so hard...
I have only been at my current job for 1.5 years. The money has been really good considering the hours and stress level.
Things are quickly changing, company is laying people off, pulling accounts away from our sales team, increasing quotas, and creating unrealistic expectations and seriously inhibiting out ability to make money.
I am one of the few on my team who has some FU $ saved up. No epic story but we will see how this scenario unfolds for me.
I am not afraid to leave, though for now I will stick it out and see what happens.
I have only been at my current job for 1.5 years. The money has been really good considering the hours and stress level.
Things are quickly changing, company is laying people off, pulling accounts away from our sales team, increasing quotas, and creating unrealistic expectations and seriously inhibiting out ability to make money.
I am one of the few on my team who has some FU $ saved up. No epic story but we will see how this scenario unfolds for me.
I am not afraid to leave, though for now I will stick it out and see what happens.
All hands! Abandon ship!
I'm going to hold off for now. I received a healthy bump to base salary. If/when things get bad enough to warrant my exit. It will be swift and unexpected for my employer.I have only been at my current job for 1.5 years. The money has been really good considering the hours and stress level.
Things are quickly changing, company is laying people off, pulling accounts away from our sales team, increasing quotas, and creating unrealistic expectations and seriously inhibiting out ability to make money.
I am one of the few on my team who has some FU $ saved up. No epic story but we will see how this scenario unfolds for me.
I am not afraid to leave, though for now I will stick it out and see what happens.
All hands! Abandon ship!
A degree makes you an expert. That's hilarious.
That being said, given the part had failed three times before and replaced three times, that suggests something else is wrong. So good call. Wrong reason.
It takes a lot more than a degree to get a PE cert. I was an engineer for years (with a degree) and never had one.
One month into my 3-month maternity leave, I took my departing in-laws to the airport. I drove home thinking, "two more months home along with a toddler and a baby." God help me.
When I got home, I was shocked to find DH was there. Tuns out half the company got laid off, including him. We high-fived.
One month into my 3-month maternity leave, I took my departing in-laws to the airport. I drove home thinking, "two more months home along with a toddler and a baby." God help me.
When I got home, I was shocked to find DH was there. Tuns out half the company got laid off, including him. We high-fived.
That, man. THAT RIGHT THERE. The fact that you can react to a layoff, especially one that hits right after a child is born, with high-fives is THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS WEBSITE, amirite?? That's what we're all going for: liberation from money-related stress! People who aren't liberated would react to that with tears and possibly acrimony so bad it leads to divorce.
[
This site freaking ROCKS. :)
That, man. THAT RIGHT THERE. The fact that you can react to a layoff, especially one that hits right after a child is born, with high-fives is THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS WEBSITE, amirite?? That's what we're all going for: liberation from money-related stress! People who aren't liberated would react to that with tears and possibly acrimony so bad it leads to divorce.
One of my former bosses has been laid off a lot. I mean, he's almost 60. He's able to move seamlessly from engineering to management to VP-dom.That, man. THAT RIGHT THERE. The fact that you can react to a layoff, especially one that hits right after a child is born, with high-fives is THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS WEBSITE, amirite?? That's what we're all going for: liberation from money-related stress! People who aren't liberated would react to that with tears and possibly acrimony so bad it leads to divorce.
Yes. This. My spouse got laid off unexpectedly during massive company cuts many years ago, and it was AWESOME. A little weird at first, having the rug yanked out from under you like that, but that was the happiest, laziest, most relaxed summer we'd spent together in years. Best thing that could have happened for our marriage.
And all because we live within our means and save up extra $$. I still don't get why that's so hard for people who earn decent wages. Maybe someday, more people will start doing it and reaping the rewards. Man, I hope so.
One of my former bosses has been laid off a lot. I mean, he's almost 60. He's able to move seamlessly from engineering to management to VP-dom.
This guy was my MMM soul-mate. We'd eat our packed lunches (some times he would just bring a baked potato) and talk about savings. Some gems.
- He once spent an entire summer off with his kids, didn't bother looking for a job
- He owns two homes (one San Diego, one Santa Barbara) and some agricultural land. He goes back and forth every couple of weeks.
- When he got bored with being the VP, he moved over to a job that required a lot of travel to Asia. Hmmm gee I wonder how he afforded that trip to Italy, eh?
- He's been laid off for almost 2 years. Didn't even look for a job for the first year (fixing up his new house). Looked for a little while. Now he's busy making wine for fun (I hear it's good).
He has never sweat the layoffs.
Not epic but kinda fun.
A few weeks back, one of my managers asked me if I would mind being added to the call-in rotation temporarily. We had a few people leave our operations team and the Ops people that were left were bitching about how frequently they were on call. It didn't happen and I was glad for that, since I didn't really want to be on call. Plus it's not my job. Yesterday, my manager stopped by and told me he was having me added to the end of the current on-call rotation. June 30 is my last day so I emailed him and said no. I said I needed every weekend I had left before my last day to be prepared for my upcoming journey (I'm thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail). He backed down. If I were not already leaving I wouldn't have said no because I'm a nice guy.
(I'm thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail).
Not epic but kinda fun.
A few weeks back, one of my managers asked me if I would mind being added to the call-in rotation temporarily. We had a few people leave our operations team and the Ops people that were left were bitching about how frequently they were on call. It didn't happen and I was glad for that, since I didn't really want to be on call. Plus it's not my job. Yesterday, my manager stopped by and told me he was having me added to the end of the current on-call rotation. June 30 is my last day so I emailed him and said no. I said I needed every weekend I had left before my last day to be prepared for my upcoming journey (I'm thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail). He backed down. If I were not already leaving I wouldn't have said no because I'm a nice guy.
Okay, where are you documenting this journey of your hike through the AT? It's on my list, and has been discussed in the FIRE Adventures Map Thread (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/fire-adventures-shared-map/).I'm still unsure of this. I dislike the notion of typing because it cannot keep up with speed of thought. For this I've considered a voice recorder, but that doesn't easily translate to online content (for family and friends). I've considered making a series in my FIRE blog (see signature) for this but I'm not sure if I want to commit to blogging while on trail. I really want the experience to be immersive, while providing a break from tech since that's been my career for the last 11 years. I've also considered buying the looseleaf version of AWOL's AT Guide so I can mark them up with thoughts and notes and send them home. That would make a nice memento from the trip without being burdensome to keep So I'm undecided.
2. Northbound or Southbound?SOBO (Southbound)! My mother, sister, and wife are driving me up to Maine July 2nd. We'll hike up Katahdin on the 3rd, then I'll head south from there.
Okay, where are you documenting this journey of your hike through the AT? It's on my list, and has been discussed in the FIRE Adventures Map Thread (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/fire-adventures-shared-map/).I'm still unsure of this. I dislike the notion of typing because it cannot keep up with speed of thought. For this I've considered a voice recorder, but that doesn't easily translate to online content (for family and friends). I've considered making a series in my FIRE blog (see signature) for this but I'm not sure if I want to commit to blogging while on trail. I really want the experience to be immersive, while providing a break from tech since that's been my career for the last 11 years. I've also considered buying the looseleaf version of AWOL's AT Guide so I can mark them up with thoughts and notes and send them home. That would make a nice memento from the trip without being burdensome to keep So I'm undecided.
Okay, where are you documenting this journey of your hike through the AT? It's on my list, and has been discussed in the FIRE Adventures Map Thread (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/fire-adventures-shared-map/).I'm still unsure of this. I dislike the notion of typing because it cannot keep up with speed of thought. For this I've considered a voice recorder, but that doesn't easily translate to online content (for family and friends). I've considered making a series in my FIRE blog (see signature) for this but I'm not sure if I want to commit to blogging while on trail. I really want the experience to be immersive, while providing a break from tech since that's been my career for the last 11 years. I've also considered buying the looseleaf version of AWOL's AT Guide so I can mark them up with thoughts and notes and send them home. That would make a nice memento from the trip without being burdensome to keep So I'm undecided.2. Northbound or Southbound?SOBO (Southbound)! My mother, sister, and wife are driving me up to Maine July 2nd. We'll hike up Katahdin on the 3rd, then I'll head south from there.
July would be too late for a NOBO but for a SOBO it's on the tail end of fine, assuming the average pace (5-6 months). I'll be south of Harper's Ferry, WV by the end of September. I intend to catch the fall color change as I move through the Shenendoahs and the Great Smoky Mountains.Okay, where are you documenting this journey of your hike through the AT? It's on my list, and has been discussed in the FIRE Adventures Map Thread (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/fire-adventures-shared-map/).I'm still unsure of this. I dislike the notion of typing because it cannot keep up with speed of thought. For this I've considered a voice recorder, but that doesn't easily translate to online content (for family and friends). I've considered making a series in my FIRE blog (see signature) for this but I'm not sure if I want to commit to blogging while on trail. I really want the experience to be immersive, while providing a break from tech since that's been my career for the last 11 years. I've also considered buying the looseleaf version of AWOL's AT Guide so I can mark them up with thoughts and notes and send them home. That would make a nice memento from the trip without being burdensome to keep So I'm undecided.2. Northbound or Southbound?SOBO (Southbound)! My mother, sister, and wife are driving me up to Maine July 2nd. We'll hike up Katahdin on the 3rd, then I'll head south from there.
July is a late start no? I've been in the Berkshires in September and it's been well below freezing at night.
July would be too late for a NOBO but for a SOBO it's on the tail end of fine, assuming the average pace (5-6 months). I'll be south of Harper's Ferry, WV by the end of September. I intend to catch the fall color change as I move through the Shenendoahs and the Great Smoky Mountains.
July would be too late for a NOBO but for a SOBO it's on the tail end of fine, assuming the average pace (5-6 months). I'll be south of Harper's Ferry, WV by the end of September. I intend to catch the fall color change as I move through the Shenendoahs and the Great Smoky Mountains.Okay, where are you documenting this journey of your hike through the AT? It's on my list, and has been discussed in the FIRE Adventures Map Thread (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/fire-adventures-shared-map/).I'm still unsure of this. I dislike the notion of typing because it cannot keep up with speed of thought. For this I've considered a voice recorder, but that doesn't easily translate to online content (for family and friends). I've considered making a series in my FIRE blog (see signature) for this but I'm not sure if I want to commit to blogging while on trail. I really want the experience to be immersive, while providing a break from tech since that's been my career for the last 11 years. I've also considered buying the looseleaf version of AWOL's AT Guide so I can mark them up with thoughts and notes and send them home. That would make a nice memento from the trip without being burdensome to keep So I'm undecided.2. Northbound or Southbound?SOBO (Southbound)! My mother, sister, and wife are driving me up to Maine July 2nd. We'll hike up Katahdin on the 3rd, then I'll head south from there.
July is a late start no? I've been in the Berkshires in September and it's been well below freezing at night.
July would be too late for a NOBO but for a SOBO it's on the tail end of fine, assuming the average pace (5-6 months). I'll be south of Harper's Ferry, WV by the end of September. I intend to catch the fall color change as I move through the Shenendoahs and the Great Smoky Mountains.Okay, where are you documenting this journey of your hike through the AT? It's on my list, and has been discussed in the FIRE Adventures Map Thread (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/fire-adventures-shared-map/).I'm still unsure of this. I dislike the notion of typing because it cannot keep up with speed of thought. For this I've considered a voice recorder, but that doesn't easily translate to online content (for family and friends). I've considered making a series in my FIRE blog (see signature) for this but I'm not sure if I want to commit to blogging while on trail. I really want the experience to be immersive, while providing a break from tech since that's been my career for the last 11 years. I've also considered buying the looseleaf version of AWOL's AT Guide so I can mark them up with thoughts and notes and send them home. That would make a nice memento from the trip without being burdensome to keep So I'm undecided.2. Northbound or Southbound?SOBO (Southbound)! My mother, sister, and wife are driving me up to Maine July 2nd. We'll hike up Katahdin on the 3rd, then I'll head south from there.
July is a late start no? I've been in the Berkshires in September and it's been well below freezing at night.
That is one of my favorite places. An old job had me near Harper's Ferry once or twice a year in early winter and spring staying in a retreat space for a week at a time. The AT went along the ridge above the cabin if I remember correctly. Good memories. Beautiful location.
That is one of my favorite places. An old job had me near Harper's Ferry once or twice a year in early winter and spring staying in a retreat space for a week at a time. The AT went along the ridge above the cabin if I remember correctly. Good memories. Beautiful location.I live 45 minutes from Harper's Ferry and it's my favorite place to hike. The AT runs through the town, the C&O Canal is right across the river, and the Maryland Heights trail is across the river too, with a stunning overlook (http://"http://www.nps.gov/ncr/hafe/images/B921B200-1DD8-B71C-07B073F1368087CD.jpg") of historic Harper's Ferry.
Not epic but kinda fun.Yes, will you be blogging?
A few weeks back, one of my managers asked me if I would mind being added to the call-in rotation temporarily. We had a few people leave our operations team and the Ops people that were left were bitching about how frequently they were on call. It didn't happen and I was glad for that, since I didn't really want to be on call. Plus it's not my job. Yesterday, my manager stopped by and told me he was having me added to the end of the current on-call rotation. June 30 is my last day so I emailed him and said no. I said I needed every weekend I had left before my last day to be prepared for my upcoming journey (I'm thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail). He backed down. If I were not already leaving I wouldn't have said no because I'm a nice guy.
I want to record my thoughts in some fashion but I'm not committing to blogging just yet. I think it would be an enjoyable experience if I were using speech-to-text software. No way I want to be typing blog length entries on my phone. I'll probably set my blog up up for blogging via email when I leave so that I have that option and if I feel inclined to do it, I will.Not epic but kinda fun.Yes, will you be blogging?
A few weeks back, one of my managers asked me if I would mind being added to the call-in rotation temporarily. We had a few people leave our operations team and the Ops people that were left were bitching about how frequently they were on call. It didn't happen and I was glad for that, since I didn't really want to be on call. Plus it's not my job. Yesterday, my manager stopped by and told me he was having me added to the end of the current on-call rotation. June 30 is my last day so I emailed him and said no. I said I needed every weekend I had left before my last day to be prepared for my upcoming journey (I'm thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail). He backed down. If I were not already leaving I wouldn't have said no because I'm a nice guy.
A few years ago (probably when I had my second kid), I got suckered into reading the blog of a woman who thru-hiked the PCT. (See, my niece thru-hiked the AT, then I found the blog of a guy who thru hiked the PCT and ended on the same day. Living in CA, I googled PCT and found her blog. And it was awesome. Weather hit early that year, she missed finishing by about 60 miles - tried to "finish" via roads instead of passes, and the damn sequester closed the National parks up near the Canadian border.)
I have no time anymore. She still blogs infrequently (as a tandem-trucker with her husband), but discovered that she hiked the ADT 10 years ago with her mom. I totally want to go read that journal.
I want to record my thoughts in some fashion but I'm not committing to blogging just yet. I think it would be an enjoyable experience if I were using speech-to-text software. No way I want to be typing blog length entries on my phone. I'll probably set my blog up up for blogging via email when I leave so that I have that option and if I feel inclined to do it, I will.
Can someone tell me how to add a picture? I have an epic story that you'd have to see to believe...
Can someone tell me how to add a picture? I have an epic story that you'd have to see to believe...
I attached it. Maybe it just doesn't show up in the preview?
Can someone tell me how to add a picture? I have an epic story that you'd have to see to believe...
Can someone tell me how to add a picture? I have an epic story that you'd have to see to believe...
Ah, there it is. Sorry for the vulgarity!
This was her response to me telling her that if she doesn't want people quitting all the time, she should try not being so rude. She apparently didn't get the message! Thank God for FU money!
Not hard to see why people don't want to work for that person. Holy crap!Can someone tell me how to add a picture? I have an epic story that you'd have to see to believe...
Ah, there it is. Sorry for the vulgarity!
This was her response to me telling her that if she doesn't want people quitting all the time, she should try not being so rude. She apparently didn't get the message! Thank God for FU money!
Can someone tell me how to add a picture? I have an epic story that you'd have to see to believe...
Ah, there it is. Sorry for the vulgarity!
This was her response to me telling her that if she doesn't want people quitting all the time, she should try not being so rude. She apparently didn't get the message! Thank God for FU money!
Can someone tell me how to add a picture? I have an epic story that you'd have to see to believe...
Ah, there it is. Sorry for the vulgarity!
This was her response to me telling her that if she doesn't want people quitting all the time, she should try not being so rude. She apparently didn't get the message! Thank God for FU money!
Oh boy. More juicy backstory? What kinds of things was she doing that made people quit all the time?
Can someone tell me how to add a picture? I have an epic story that you'd have to see to believe...
Ah, there it is. Sorry for the vulgarity!
This was her response to me telling her that if she doesn't want people quitting all the time, she should try not being so rude. She apparently didn't get the message! Thank God for FU money!
Oh boy. More juicy backstory? What kinds of things was she doing that made people quit all the time?
Docking our pay for ridiculous reasons, expecting us to do way too much for free, trash talking about clients and other coworkers. Not appreciating us. Unfortunately I really liked the job - but not enough to put up with her.
Can someone tell me how to add a picture? I have an epic story that you'd have to see to believe...
Ah, there it is. Sorry for the vulgarity!
This was her response to me telling her that if she doesn't want people quitting all the time, she should try not being so rude. She apparently didn't get the message! Thank God for FU money!
Wow, that's terrible. Good thing you got out of there. I'd say that effectively proved your point, too, but I bet the irony was lost on her.
I attached it. Maybe it just doesn't show up in the preview?Wait! She called you a "C" You Next Tuesday? She must have been looking in a mirror and gotten confused. Wow, just wow!
I attached it. Maybe it just doesn't show up in the preview?Wait! She called you a "C" You Next Tuesday? She must have been looking in a mirror and gotten confused. Wow, just wow!
Oh boy. More juicy backstory? What kinds of things was she doing that made people quit all the time?
Docking our pay for ridiculous reasons, expecting us to do way too much for free, trash talking about clients and other coworkers. Not appreciating us. Unfortunately I really liked the job - but not enough to put up with her.
Check your local laws. This may not be legal. If it is, then she can get what's coming to her and you get the money you should have had... all while you sip something cold on a beach somewhere.
Deductions resulting from a loss of your employer's property or money are not allowed unless you were the only employee to have access to that property or money.
Can someone tell me how to add a picture? I have an epic story that you'd have to see to believe...
Ah, there it is. Sorry for the vulgarity!
This was her response to me telling her that if she doesn't want people quitting all the time, she should try not being so rude. She apparently didn't get the message! Thank God for FU money!
Wow, that's terrible. Good thing you got out of there. I'd say that effectively proved your point, too, but I bet the irony was lost on her.
It totally was! Lol
Unnfortunately I signed a non compete contract with her. Does anyone know how enforceable those are? I can't help but think sending that text to her client list would sway their impression of her.
This was my post FIRE gig. I started 6 months ago but I was her longest employee. I got tired of training new people and thought I'd make a few suggestions. It was just fun money for me but I felt I had to say something for the other workers and couldn't stand bending my principles anymore.
This depends on where you live. In England it's used on the regular, like we use the F-bomb in the US. I see the C-word and the new F-bomb for us Americans. Used to be saying "fuck" would take all the air out of the room.I attached it. Maybe it just doesn't show up in the preview?Wait! She called you a "C" You Next Tuesday? She must have been looking in a mirror and gotten confused. Wow, just wow!
Using that word is one of the fastest ways to take all of the air out of a room.
I also noticed the time stamps on those texts...why was your boss texting you after 9PM? Was that also a regular occurrence?
We're in the midst of one. Our daughter has a disability for which she requires an accommodation in order to participate in a specific school situation. The school district is refusing to provide her with that accommodation and instead is trying to bribe us to go away by offering us $20k to sign a document agreeing to waive her rights to participate in that specific school activity. We told them to take their offer and shove it (politely, of coarse). They even had their district physician call her doctor and try to get him to talk us into accepting their offer. Of coarse, this offer was made verbally and they never gave us the document, so they will just lie and say it never happened. If we were given the document, I would pass it on to the Office of Civil Rights. They're still not giving her the accommodation that she needs, but regardless, I will never have to look my daughter in the eye and say she can't do x activity like all her friends because we are paid for her not to.
Can someone tell me how to add a picture? I have an epic story that you'd have to see to believe...
Ah, there it is. Sorry for the vulgarity!
This was her response to me telling her that if she doesn't want people quitting all the time, she should try not being so rude. She apparently didn't get the message! Thank God for FU money!
Wow, that's terrible. Good thing you got out of there. I'd say that effectively proved your point, too, but I bet the irony was lost on her.
It totally was! Lol
Unnfortunately I signed a non compete contract with her. Does anyone know how enforceable those are? I can't help but think sending that text to her client list would sway their impression of her.
This was my post FIRE gig. I started 6 months ago but I was her longest employee. I got tired of training new people and thought I'd make a few suggestions. It was just fun money for me but I felt I had to say something for the other workers and couldn't stand bending my principles anymore.
We're in the midst of one. Our daughter has a disability for which she requires an accommodation in order to participate in a specific school situation. The school district is refusing to provide her with that accommodation and instead is trying to bribe us to go away by offering us $20k to sign a document agreeing to waive her rights to participate in that specific school activity. We told them to take their offer and shove it (politely, of coarse). They even had their district physician call her doctor and try to get him to talk us into accepting their offer. Of coarse, this offer was made verbally and they never gave us the document, so they will just lie and say it never happened. If we were given the document, I would pass it on to the Office of Civil Rights. They're still not giving her the accommodation that she needs, but regardless, I will never have to look my daughter in the eye and say she can't do x activity like all her friends because we are paid for her not to.
Just curious - can you be more specific? The reason I ask is that I volunteer at a school and there is an incredible amount of requests for "accommodation" some needed - others just make me blink in astonishment. One-on-one requests for kids who only disability is that they are figgin' lazy.
Or on the other extreme pushing the school to have a kid go skiing who regularly falls out of his chair and can barely shuffle down the hallway unaided. They would have to strap him in the chair lift and I have no idea how he would get down the bunny slope. There are groups such as Ski-for-all that have the staff, training, and skill for something like this, but it is way outside the norm for a public school that can't even get the full amount of supplies for teachers' classrooms.
Unnfortunately I signed a non compete contract with her. Does anyone know how enforceable those are? I can't help but think sending that text to her client list would sway their impression of her.
This was my post FIRE gig. I started 6 months ago but I was her longest employee. I got tired of training new people and thought I'd make a few suggestions. It was just fun money for me but I felt I had to say something for the other workers and couldn't stand bending my principles anymore.
Not sure outside the US but generally in the US noncompetes are unenforecable if you aren't an executive. Noncom in return for $1M of stock grants? Probably enforceable. Noncom for a $50k/yr job? Unenforceable. Basically they cannot make you unable to earn a living.
IANAL, etc.
Unnfortunately I signed a non compete contract with her. Does anyone know how enforceable those are? I can't help but think sending that text to her client list would sway their impression of her.
This was my post FIRE gig. I started 6 months ago but I was her longest employee. I got tired of training new people and thought I'd make a few suggestions. It was just fun money for me but I felt I had to say something for the other workers and couldn't stand bending my principles anymore.
Not sure outside the US but generally in the US noncompetes are unenforecable if you aren't an executive. Noncom in return for $1M of stock grants? Probably enforceable. Noncom for a $50k/yr job? Unenforceable. Basically they cannot make you unable to earn a living.
IANAL, etc.
Whoa, hold on there. Cannot Wait!, if you are looking for guidance on non-compete law, you really need to consult an attorney familiar with your state's (or other country?) laws because the laws vary greatly by state. Many states won't dishonor an entire non-compete just because a portion is unenforceable, but will actually "blue pencil" the clause to put greater limits to turn it into an enforceable clause. The examples that Chris22 wrote, while well-intentioned, represents a pretty common misconception/over-generalization about this area of law. Although, he is correct on this part: "Basically they cannot make you unable to earn a living." Definitely consult an attorney if this is an issue you want to understand accurately for your situation.
We're in the midst of one. Our daughter has a disability for which she requires an accommodation in order to participate in a specific school situation. The school district is refusing to provide her with that accommodation and instead is trying to bribe us to go away by offering us $20k to sign a document agreeing to waive her rights to participate in that specific school activity. We told them to take their offer and shove it (politely, of coarse). They even had their district physician call her doctor and try to get him to talk us into accepting their offer. Of coarse, this offer was made verbally and they never gave us the document, so they will just lie and say it never happened. If we were given the document, I would pass it on to the Office of Civil Rights. They're still not giving her the accommodation that she needs, but regardless, I will never have to look my daughter in the eye and say she can't do x activity like all her friends because we are paid for her not to.
Just curious - can you be more specific? The reason I ask is that I volunteer at a school and there is an incredible amount of requests for "accommodation" some needed - others just make me blink in astonishment. One-on-one requests for kids who only disability is that they are figgin' lazy.
Or on the other extreme pushing the school to have a kid go skiing who regularly falls out of his chair and can barely shuffle down the hallway unaided. They would have to strap him in the chair lift and I have no idea how he would get down the bunny slope. There are groups such as Ski-for-all that have the staff, training, and skill for something like this, but it is way outside the norm for a public school that can't even get the full amount of supplies for teachers' classrooms.
Can someone tell me how to add a picture? I have an epic story that you'd have to see to believe...
Ah, there it is. Sorry for the vulgarity!
This was her response to me telling her that if she doesn't want people quitting all the time, she should try not being so rude. She apparently didn't get the message! Thank God for FU money!
Oh boy. More juicy backstory? What kinds of things was she doing that made people quit all the time?
Docking our pay for ridiculous reasons, expecting us to do way too much for free, trash talking about clients and other coworkers. Not appreciating us. Unfortunately I really liked the job - but not enough to put up with her.
http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-laroche-retires-told-not-to-bring-son-to-clubhouse-2016-3I am a Nationals fan (team LaRoche played for a number of years) and heard about this on local radio. My first reaction was "Good for him!"
Relevant to this thread, White Sox player says "I quit" when told he can't bring his 14 year old son to practice and games as often. He must have had some sort of home-schooling arrangement in order for the son to be around the ballpark so much.
Can someone tell me how to add a picture? I have an epic story that you'd have to see to believe...
Ah, there it is. Sorry for the vulgarity!
This was her response to me telling her that if she doesn't want people quitting all the time, she should try not being so rude. She apparently didn't get the message! Thank God for FU money!
http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-laroche-retires-told-not-to-bring-son-to-clubhouse-2016-3I am a Nationals fan (team LaRoche played for a number of years) and heard about this on local radio. My first reaction was "Good for him!"
Relevant to this thread, White Sox player says "I quit" when told he can't bring his 14 year old son to practice and games as often. He must have had some sort of home-schooling arrangement in order for the son to be around the ballpark so much.
So close to exercising the FU option right now. It'll agitate me too much to go into details right now but am just so glad to have the option.
Word. I've been right on the edge for the past several weeks. And this is in a job I loved right up until it got political and someone started messing with my work.
Knowing I have FU money gives me such peace of mind. I'm still hoping there's a resolution I like to the issues I'm facing right now, but if there isn't -- hey, summer's coming, and there's plenty of time to look for work in the fall.
Good luck, Azure975.
Thanks! An update on my situation--I've just been keeping my head down and working on finishing up a project which will end at the end of this month. Then I plan to approach my boss and tell her that I will be moving on over the summer. I have been wanting to take a "mini-retirement" for a long time and this seems like the right time. Hopefully I won't chicken out!Go for it, azure975!
Thanks! An update on my situation--I've just been keeping my head down and working on finishing up a project which will end at the end of this month. Then I plan to approach my boss and tell her that I will be moving on over the summer. I have been wanting to take a "mini-retirement" for a long time and this seems like the right time. Hopefully I won't chicken out!
After several months at my new job, my boss/owner brought up the idea of us partnering and expanding the business. I took a month to think and eventually decided it could be a great idea and we proceeded. After I had started bringing ideas to action, handling large portions of the shared work, and getting in the mental state of being a co-owner, my "boss" decided she didn't want to partner. I believe it's because she realized she would have to make less for a while as the business grew, as well as work with someone who she'd have to treat as an equal.Ah, this reminds me of my husband's job after grad school. A start up run by a narcissist who grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth. Sole owner of company, kept talking about issuing stock, but never did. Managed to get contracts and hire great people, but after about 4-5 years of that, I could see the writing on the wall. He talked about selling the business to my hubby and another senior guy so he could "retire". I started encouraging him to look elsewhere. He did, got a better job and the place went belly up 9 months later.
She decided she wanted me to be her "assistant" instead. Which meant still doing the extra work I was doing as well as being her go-to person for every issue and complaint. Basically reduced to her peon while she gladly referred to me as her assistant and giddily proclaimed me as such to business contacts and other employees.
My boss who i do respect as she's a kind, good-hearted person, is a poor communicator and business owner. The type who can't handle stress or make a decision without panicking. The type who doesn't respect your personal time and sucks your energy talking about all their problems, both personal and business related.
It was just a few years ago that I started saving FU money and working towards FIRE. It has allowed me to give two weeks notice and pursue two much better business opportunities.
And after I gave a respectful, no finger-pointing resignation, my boss who finally got back to me days later had the nerve to say, "I hope you know I'm not mad at you..", HA! What an ego. Grateful for FU money!
One month into my 3-month maternity leave, I took my departing in-laws to the airport. I drove home thinking, "two more months home along with a toddler and a baby." God help me.
When I got home, I was shocked to find DH was there. Tuns out half the company got laid off, including him. We high-fived.
That, man. THAT RIGHT THERE. The fact that you can react to a layoff, especially one that hits right after a child is born, with high-fives is THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS WEBSITE, amirite?? That's what we're all going for: liberation from money-related stress! People who aren't liberated would react to that with tears and possibly acrimony so bad it leads to divorce.
Oh, how I wish the forum had a "like" button and that I could press it 10^6 times.
I've read the entire thread, beginning to end, and have an e-mail alert set up so I can know when responses posted (haven't posted-to-follow until now, though!), but I had forgotten about this story. Daleth, thanks so much for highlighting it and bringing it before my eyes again--feelingroovy, I keep re-reading this amazing post-partum high-five story and letting it sink in, and in, and in some more--and tears well up in my eyes as I think how wonderful it is that your family knew PEACE in the aftermath of the layoff.
This site freaking ROCKS. :)
"Every person has two buckets, a brown and a green. The size of these buckets vary by person and sometimes by the time of day but regardless, the employee will leave when either one gets full."
Can someone tell me how to add a picture? I have an epic story that you'd have to see to believe...
Ah, there it is. Sorry for the vulgarity!
This was her response to me telling her that if she doesn't want people quitting all the time, she should try not being so rude. She apparently didn't get the message! Thank God for FU money!
Is she British?
Lately, I've taken to telling people exactly what I think of them. This has resulted in me either gaining greater respect from people or people cutting me off entirely (which is no big loss.) Seriously, if I upset someone, what are they going to do? Complain to my boss? And then I'll have to spend my day exercising, reading books, and posting on the internet while I live off a small amount of my massive savings? Who cares? Having FU money is awesome.
Unnfortunately I signed a non compete contract with her. Does anyone know how enforceable those are? I can't help but think sending that text to her client list would sway their impression of her.
This was my post FIRE gig. I started 6 months ago but I was her longest employee. I got tired of training new people and thought I'd make a few suggestions. It was just fun money for me but I felt I had to say something for the other workers and couldn't stand bending my principles anymore.
Not sure outside the US but generally in the US noncompetes are unenforecable if you aren't an executive. Noncom in return for $1M of stock grants? Probably enforceable. Noncom for a $50k/yr job? Unenforceable. Basically they cannot make you unable to earn a living.
IANAL, etc.
Whoa, hold on there. Cannot Wait!, if you are looking for guidance on non-compete law, you really need to consult an attorney familiar with your state's (or other country?) laws because the laws vary greatly by state. Many states won't dishonor an entire non-compete just because a portion is unenforceable, but will actually "blue pencil" the clause to put greater limits to turn it into an enforceable clause. The examples that Chris22 wrote, while well-intentioned, represents a pretty common misconception/over-generalization about this area of law. Although, he is correct on this part: "Basically they cannot make you unable to earn a living." Definitely consult an attorney if this is an issue you want to understand accurately for your situation.
a complete negative micromanagement ass biscuit
a complete negative micromanagement ass biscuit
I'm saving this to share the next time my friend complains about her boss.
My entire team is constantly berated and told we are doing things wrong and the smalllllest little thing becomes an hour to two hour long tirade on why everything we do is always wrong.Tabs vs. spaces?
My entire team is constantly berated and told we are doing things wrong and the smalllllest little thing becomes an hour to two hour long tirade on why everything we do is always wrong. *note* 95% of the time everything is completely unfounded. Within my first 6 months I was threatened to be fired over 30 times - I stopped counting. After the third or fourth threatening I said, 'Yes, by all means. After you do that we can go out and have a few drinks. However this this and this is wrong and I'm very busy." He attempted a few more times to try and scare me in to place before realizing that I had no fear. Now, while he still threatens to fire he's also decided that he likes me and is trying to get me promoted within my own company or brought over to his company.The word "bully" comes to mind--as soon as you stood your ground, things turned around.
My entire team is constantly berated and told we are doing things wrong and the smalllllest little thing becomes an hour to two hour long tirade on why everything we do is always wrong.Tabs vs. spaces?
(SW dev here) Are you kidding me!? Tabs are *way* better than spaces! :)My entire team is constantly berated and told we are doing things wrong and the smalllllest little thing becomes an hour to two hour long tirade on why everything we do is always wrong.Tabs vs. spaces?
Spaces, never tabs!
(You must be a software developer to understand this one)
My entire team is constantly berated and told we are doing things wrong and the smalllllest little thing becomes an hour to two hour long tirade on why everything we do is always wrong.Tabs vs. spaces?
Spaces, never tabs!
(You must be a software developer to understand this one)
(SW dev here) Are you kidding me!? Tabs are *way* better than spaces! :)My entire team is constantly berated and told we are doing things wrong and the smalllllest little thing becomes an hour to two hour long tirade on why everything we do is always wrong.Tabs vs. spaces?
Spaces, never tabs!
(You must be a software developer to understand this one)
I prefer a pre-checkin formatting script, but we never got around to it at my last company...we were spending too much time debating the proper amount of spacing around operators, when to camel case, and other such important stuff. That's OK, though, because we only spent about 100 engineer-years on the project and then had it canceled, only to be replaced by another project with essentially the same specs, except the main controller was replaced by another part "produced" by a company we bought. Which was OK except the owner of the company was friends with management at my company - they went to college together or something. And that the part wasn't done yet. So last I heard they were off developing a simulation environment because there was no hardware. I really don't know anymore...I left in February.
^ Yup. My general point is that the organization I was in preferred to debate and argue more than solve the problem and move on with life. TBH, I probably contributed to that culture myself at times. Anyway, no longer my problem since 2/19/16.
^ Yup. My general point is that the organization I was in preferred to debate and argue more than solve the problem and move on with life. TBH, I probably contributed to that culture myself at times. Anyway, no longer my problem since 2/19/16.
I think it's possible I am working for that very same company ;)
Between April of last year until about two months ago, I was extremely frustrated at work and looking for another job (which would require moving where I live). If I had been offered any of the jobs for which I applied, I would have accepted it with no hesitation.
Unfortunately, after months of a frustrating job search, usually driving at least two hours each way to interviews/tests and taking vacation time to do so, I decided that I would no longer actively look for another job. I also decided not to move from where I current live and leave my current job, before accepting another position. As you did, I decided to allow my Stash to continue to grow instead of possibly using it to cover expenses while looking for a job.
Coming to these decisions has made a huge difference. I have not fully returned to my pre-April 2015 state of being extremely happy with my situation - but I am nonetheless happy, regardless of what my managers have or have not done, are or are not doing, and will or will not do.
I do what I need to do to maintain a healthy state of mind - such as freely speak my mind or flatly refuse to do certain tasks. The worst-case scenario, as far as I can tell, would be my current employer firing me (or laying me off, or whatever you choose to call it), with a contract-required notice of two months. As that's a fairly attractive option from my point of view, if that happens, I'd simply say something like "Great. Thank you.", leave the office, tell my landlord I'm exercising the clause in my lease that allows me to cancel it with two months' notice, and start looking for a new job and a new place to live.
I actually joke with colleagues that happy jlajr can be just as annoying as frustrated jlajr, and that I suspect that they have started putting happy pills in my lunch. :)
Between April of last year until about two months ago, I was extremely frustrated at work and looking for another job (which would require moving where I live). If I had been offered any of the jobs for which I applied, I would have accepted it with no hesitation.
Unfortunately, after months of a frustrating job search, usually driving at least two hours each way to interviews/tests and taking vacation time to do so, I decided that I would no longer actively look for another job. I also decided not to move from where I current live and leave my current job, before accepting another position. As you did, I decided to allow my Stash to continue to grow instead of possibly using it to cover expenses while looking for a job.
Coming to these decisions has made a huge difference. I have not fully returned to my pre-April 2015 state of being extremely happy with my situation - but I am nonetheless happy, regardless of what my managers have or have not done, are or are not doing, and will or will not do.
I do what I need to do to maintain a healthy state of mind - such as freely speak my mind or flatly refuse to do certain tasks. The worst-case scenario, as far as I can tell, would be my current employer firing me (or laying me off, or whatever you choose to call it), with a contract-required notice of two months. As that's a fairly attractive option from my point of view, if that happens, I'd simply say something like "Great. Thank you.", leave the office, tell my landlord I'm exercising the clause in my lease that allows me to cancel it with two months' notice, and start looking for a new job and a new place to live.
I actually joke with colleagues that happy jlajr can be just as annoying as frustrated jlajr, and that I suspect that they have started putting happy pills in my lunch. :)
Well, freely speaking my mind and flatly refusing to do certain tasks has, in fact, resulted in my employer terminating my employment.
When I decided that I would no longer actively look for another job and realized that my employer terminating my employment would be a fairly attractive option from my point of view, I kind of forgot to think about what I would do after my employer terminated my employment. I guess I should do that now.
With two months notice, I'll have some time to do just that.
(Don't say, Wow, two months notice? That's amazing., just yet. The other side of the coin is that if I had resigned, I would have been required to give my employer two months notice as well.)
I prefer a pre-checkin formatting script...
I prefer a pre-checkin formatting script...
You clearly reject a reality that is clear to others around you, and yet either lack the courage of your convictions to engage them in open debate, or else know you will lose on the merits.
Which is to say that you sound like a tabs-man.
I did not forget the sarcasm tag. It's more like I failed at not needing it.
Well, congrats, I think? Am I misremembering, or are you and your wife expecting a kid?
Well, congrats, I think? Am I misremembering, or are you and your wife expecting a kid?
Thank you, onlykelsey. I do feel congrats are in order. :)
On the other hand, I'm not married, so it is not me and my wife expecting a child.
Nonetheless, congratulations to you, jlajr! That's exciting news that you will be a father! Regarding your comments on the job loss, I hope you keep a very positive outlook on it. Sounds like you stuck to your principles, did not compromise your beliefs at your employer's demand, and now have the opportunity to find a suitable replacement job that is a better match for you personally -- somewhere where their practices align with your own and they recognize the value in having an employee who speaks up.Thank you, LeRainDrop.
I did not forget the sarcasm tag. It's more like I failed at not needing it.
Nonetheless, congratulations to you, jlajr! That's exciting news that you will be a father!
BTW I'm not married. It is not me and my wife expecting a child.
I have a feeling there are forum members that know something you haven't found out yet.
Let us know if it's a boy or a girl!
:-)
My story is an in-progress story.
Currently I'm working for a job that I really like and have a good team but we have a 'supervisory' manager from another company that has the most combative and rude management style that I have ever experienced. I can't say that every day is an epic FU Money Story what I do have is the confidence that if I were fired I would be fine and my wife is a-ok with us making a dramatic change at any moment.
My entire team is constantly berated and told we are doing things wrong and the smalllllest little thing becomes an hour to two hour long tirade on why everything we do is always wrong. *note* 95% of the time everything is completely unfounded. Within my first 6 months I was threatened to be fired over 30 times - I stopped counting. After the third or fourth threatening I said, 'Yes, by all means. After you do that we can go out and have a few drinks. However this this and this is wrong and I'm very busy." He attempted a few more times to try and scare me in to place before realizing that I had no fear. Now, while he still threatens to fire he's also decided that he likes me and is trying to get me promoted within my own company or brought over to his company.
Having enough money to comfortably walk away at any time has just turned the constant idiocy in to a laughing matter. Unfortunately my coworkers are not in the same position so they feel much more stress and anxiety. While this manager does make days longer and harder to get my work done I'm able to speak my mind and do my damn job all because of epic FU money and the confidence that it has brought.
EcoCanuck
I have a feeling there are forum members that know something you haven't found out yet.
Let us know if it's a boy or a girl!
:-)
LOL
Now having gone through similar situations at two successive companies, I'm fairly certain that my proper-management-is-more-important-than-money belief is out the window. Even if the team is managed well today, that could change at any time. What remains when that happens are the relationships with coworkers and how well the salary is achieving my other goals.
JLAIII?
SwordGuy's Law of Management Ability:
"There are up to three layers of management above you that can impact your job on a daily basis. Over a 5 year period of time, one of them is statistically certain to be horrible at their job."
SwordGuy's Pain Theory of Management:
When faced with a long term, ongoing problem, it's generally because those who cause the problem do not feel the pain of the situation. The only way to fix the problem is to transfer the pain back to those who cause it.
My sister worked at a drug store in high school. The manager pissed her off one day, and after telling him to F-off, she walked down the aisles and just scooped all kinds of items off the shelves, onto the floor, with her arms. Surprisingly, they didn't call the cops.
My sister worked at a drug store in high school. The manager pissed her off one day, and after telling him to F-off, she walked down the aisles and just scooped all kinds of items off the shelves, onto the floor, with her arms. Surprisingly, they didn't call the cops.
My sister worked at a drug store in high school. The manager pissed her off one day, and after telling him to F-off, she walked down the aisles and just scooped all kinds of items off the shelves, onto the floor, with her arms. Surprisingly, they didn't call the cops.
My entire team is constantly berated and told we are doing things wrong and the smalllllest little thing becomes an hour to two hour long tirade on why everything we do is always wrong.Tabs vs. spaces?
Spaces, never tabs!
(You must be a software developer to understand this one)
My entire team is constantly berated and told we are doing things wrong and the smalllllest little thing becomes an hour to two hour long tirade on why everything we do is always wrong.Tabs vs. spaces?
Spaces, never tabs!
(You must be a software developer to understand this one)
Tabs, never spaces!
You must know how to create Usenet newsgroups to understand this one.
My entire team is constantly berated and told we are doing things wrong and the smalllllest little thing becomes an hour to two hour long tirade on why everything we do is always wrong.Tabs vs. spaces?
Spaces, never tabs!
(You must be a software developer to understand this one)
Tabs, never spaces!
You must know how to create Usenet newsgroups to understand this one.
My entire team is constantly berated and told we are doing things wrong and the smalllllest little thing becomes an hour to two hour long tirade on why everything we do is always wrong.Tabs vs. spaces?
Spaces, never tabs!
(You must be a software developer to understand this one)
Tabs, never spaces!
You must know how to create Usenet newsgroups to understand this one.
I'll bet 1/2 the people on this group don't know what a Usenet newsgroup is.
I frequent several everyday, but I have read them long enough to see many that were
useful, are no longer as busy as they used to be. Still some to enjoy though.
And I don't know the tabs/spaces distinction!
My entire team is constantly berated and told we are doing things wrong and the smalllllest little thing becomes an hour to two hour long tirade on why everything we do is always wrong.Tabs vs. spaces?
Spaces, never tabs!
(You must be a software developer to understand this one)
Tabs, never spaces!
You must know how to create Usenet newsgroups to understand this one.
I'll bet 1/2 the people on this group don't know what a Usenet newsgroup is.
I frequent several everyday, but I have read them long enough to see many that were
useful, are no longer as busy as they used to be. Still some to enjoy though.
And I don't know the tabs/spaces distinction!
I didn't know they were still a thing!
My entire team is constantly berated and told we are doing things wrong and the smalllllest little thing becomes an hour to two hour long tirade on why everything we do is always wrong.Tabs vs. spaces?
Spaces, never tabs!
(You must be a software developer to understand this one)
Tabs, never spaces!
You must know how to create Usenet newsgroups to understand this one.
I'll bet 1/2 the people on this group don't know what a Usenet newsgroup is.
I frequent several everyday, but I have read them long enough to see many that were
useful, are no longer as busy as they used to be. Still some to enjoy though.
And I don't know the tabs/spaces distinction!
If you're working in Word or similar, tabs. Because it looks more professional. If you're talking about programming - I neither know, nor care, and I really wish you'd post some funny FU stories instead.
Last night I dreamed I had an epic FU story. I dreamed I was running an art project at my old school with all the people I was at school with, which was a lot like one I am doing in real life. It was awful and they were all mean to me and eventually in a crowded room of them, I just yelled, "I QUIT!" and stormed out. They all laughed and said I'd be back but I just kept on walking and got on the bus and then for some reason took a train to Spain. That's where the director of the project (who I do actually really like) caught up with me and begged me to come back and I said "Not for a million pounds!" And he offered two million and I said OK. So I went back and did crafts with the school bullies for a week and got paid £2m. Then I woke up and the triumphant feeling when I yelled "I QUIT!" remained and I had to check in with myself that I had not in fact quit anything.
Usenet! Noobs
Anyone remember FidoNet?
FidoNet is where we told the Usenet Noobs to go back to.
Usenet! Noobs
Anyone remember FidoNet?
FidoNet is where we told the Usenet Noobs to go back to.
I own two sets of Vernier callipers, one manual set that are a bit out of calibration so there for looks only, and a newer digital set (yep, with a screen that gives me a measurement to one decimal place of a millimetre, plenty of accuracy for what I need!). I'm not sure how these are old-fashioned. Or is that just me?
Last night I dreamed I had an epic FU story. I dreamed I was running an art project at my old school with all the people I was at school with, which was a lot like one I am doing in real life. It was awful and they were all mean to me and eventually in a crowded room of them, I just yelled, "I QUIT!" and stormed out. They all laughed and said I'd be back but I just kept on walking and got on the bus and then for some reason took a train to Spain. That's where the director of the project (who I do actually really like) caught up with me and begged me to come back and I said "Not for a million pounds!" And he offered two million and I said OK. So I went back and did crafts with the school bullies for a week and got paid £2m. Then I woke up and the triumphant feeling when I yelled "I QUIT!" remained and I had to check in with myself that I had not in fact quit anything.
Based on your name, maybe you are having a hard time differentiating between real life and sleep. Are you SURE you didn't quit yesterday?
Great story just the same.
radram
I've been on the Internet since 1988, about 5 years before the web. We knew most of the posters on Usenet.
I've been on the Internet since 1988, about 5 years before the web. We knew most of the posters on Usenet.
Me: Since 1985, when I was the Systems Manager at a major university. My boss was the former head of DARPA.
I've been on the Internet since 1988, about 5 years before the web. We knew most of the posters on Usenet.
And then AOL opened the floodgates and the unwashed hordes poured in ;-)
I've been on the Internet since 1988, about 5 years before the web. We knew most of the posters on Usenet.
And then AOL opened the floodgates and the unwashed hordes poured in ;-)
This is known as Eternal September (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September). :D
I've been on the Internet since 1988, about 5 years before the web. We knew most of the posters on Usenet.
And then AOL opened the floodgates and the unwashed hordes poured in ;-)
This is known as Eternal September (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September). :D
This is known as Eternal September (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September). :D
I've been on the Internet since 1988, about 5 years before the web. We knew most of the posters on Usenet.
And then AOL opened the floodgates and the unwashed hordes poured in ;-)
This is known as Eternal September (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September). :D
I've been on the Internet since 1988, about 5 years before the web. We knew most of the posters on Usenet.
Me: Since 1985, when I was the Systems Manager at a major university. My boss was the former head of DARPA.
Pretty cool epic FU story there!
My manager who was really cool in the beginning, appreciating my work had a 180 degree change in her attitude.
It almost felt like her primary job function at this time was to make my life miserable. A month or two after I started getting the treatment, I talked to DW and told her I could not take it any more. Later on, thru common friends, I found out that she was going thru a messy divorce and I guess I was the nearest male she could vent her frustration on.
. . .
The next couple of months were wonderful. Slept late, studied and did not put in any job applications. Finally got a job after the two month break.
The power of FU money is awesome.
My manager who was really cool in the beginning, appreciating my work had a 180 degree change in her attitude.
It almost felt like her primary job function at this time was to make my life miserable. A month or two after I started getting the treatment, I talked to DW and told her I could not take it any more. Later on, thru common friends, I found out that she was going thru a messy divorce and I guess I was the nearest male she could vent her frustration on.
. . .
The next couple of months were wonderful. Slept late, studied and did not put in any job applications. Finally got a job after the two month break.
The power of FU money is awesome.
Cowboy, I can totally relate to that scenario -- my biggest advocate became the biggest bully. Like you said, "It almost felt like her primary job function at this time was to make my life miserable." In her case, she felt forced to come back to work after a one-year personal leave because her husband had just been unexpectedly laid off from his job. And this happened just days after she had formally resigned from the firm after she got into a negotiations-fight with them over hours and title. Had to come back with her tail between her legs, and she was none too happy that I had continued to advance in the year she was gone, therefore "threatening" her position. Fast forward a couple years, and I'm now on "summer vacation," enjoying the good life like you did. I loved your story.
Few butterflies in my stomach, but a huge load off my shoulders.Yep, exactly.
Oh Ducky19, we have to get this guy some great booze to enjoy! EPIC! Totally motherfucking epic!
I'll chip in on some booze - I am serious, PM me
That... was... epic.Exactly. Epic, then, um . . . brain cancer. Ah shit.
Does he actually have brain cancer? :(
Contact the friend that the Internet hordes are feeling generous!
As someone toostrategicdiplomaticmeekruled by my Inner Bag Lady to burn a bridge, that was cathartic. Thanks for posting.
There is a special place in hell for bosses who leverage work papers for submission.Agree. I wasn't really all that angry for myself, because I had the option to walk away from the job at any time with no repercussions besides financial repercussions since I'm a citizen. I was fed up enough to be fine with the idea of quitting and just drifting for a bit. But I did get angry about the injustice of how being fired for challenging Bob would affect my non-citizen friend. So in a way, he (my friend) helped me too, because I would not have been nearly as motivated to look for a new position right away if I hadn't been worried for what would happen to my friend. Plus, my friend is one of those totally laid back nice guys that everyone likes. He worked hard and wasn't a troublemaker like me. He definitely didn't deserve to have Bob treat him like that.
That really puts a dark spin on all the companies trying to hire those with work-visas. Hadn't thought about how much they could hold over their employees' heads. Ugh.
Go have a look at the search results for "bill gates h1b visa". Would assume things are common at other companies.It's a brilliant system (*). You get to hire cheap workers who can't complain or move to another job.
Not sure I have a good solution but is a messy system.
A professor once brought up the topic of unemployment (it might have been an economics class), and how it can be bad, etc.... that means that out of 30 of us in this class, 27 of us will have jobs. Why are we worried again?"If you are in a class with a professor, the 10% unemployment rate probably doesn't apply to you anyway.
A professor once brought up the topic of unemployment (it might have been an economics class), and how it can be bad, etc.... that means that out of 30 of us in this class, 27 of us will have jobs. Why are we worried again?"If you are in a class with a professor, the 10% unemployment rate probably doesn't apply to you anyway.
It's like being told the life expectancy in some famine struck African country
In Michigan, those with high school degrees were hit the hardest. College degrees were fine. Grad degrees even better. College degree unemployment rate was lower than overall rate.A professor once brought up the topic of unemployment (it might have been an economics class), and how it can be bad, etc.... that means that out of 30 of us in this class, 27 of us will have jobs. Why are we worried again?"If you are in a class with a professor, the 10% unemployment rate probably doesn't apply to you anyway.
It's like being told the life expectancy in some famine struck African country
I suspect that graduates with a 4-year degree would be hit disproportionately hard if unemployment was 10%.
A professor once brought up the topic of unemployment (it might have been an economics class), and how it can be bad, etc.... that means that out of 30 of us in this class, 27 of us will have jobs. Why are we worried again?"If you are in a class with a professor, the 10% unemployment rate probably doesn't apply to you anyway.
It's like being told the life expectancy in some famine struck African country
I suspect that graduates with a 4-year degree would be hit disproportionately hard if unemployment was 10%.
We don't have explicit data on that, because the highest educational category on the unemployment survey is "Bachelors Degree and Higher". But when unemployment was 10% back in 2009, unemployment in that category was only 5%. Way more than half the total people in that category have exactly a bachelor's degree -- masters' and PHDs are a small minority of the group. So I can safely infer that unemployment among people with a bachelors' degree is generally lower than general population unemployment.
We don't have explicit data on that, because the highest educational category on the unemployment survey is "Bachelors Degree and Higher". But when unemployment was 10% back in 2009, unemployment in that category was only 5%. Way more than half the total people in that category have exactly a bachelor's degree -- masters' and PHDs are a small minority of the group. So I can safely infer that unemployment among people with a bachelors' degree is generally lower than general population unemployment.
However, the demographic in question is "about to graduate bachelors" students -- not overall bachelors holders.
I, on the other hand, feel like saving my friend from Bob is one of the top five things I've done in my lifetime that really helped someone/made a difference in their life.
Quick, someone post an epic FU money story!
Quick, someone post an epic FU money story!
Check back with me later this month.
Fucking brilliant. Good for you MF.
I'm a stand up guy - what can I say.Fucking brilliant. Good for you MF.
Awesome. Love it.
Damn, those PIPs are seriously messed up! Is this still practiced in that company or in the industry at all?We have them in our industry, but I've only ever seen them used when they were needed. Like when there are obvious performance issues.
Damn, those PIPs are seriously messed up! Is this still practiced in that company or in the industry at all?We have them in our industry, but I've only ever seen them used when they were needed. Like when there are obvious performance issues.
Damn, those PIPs are seriously messed up! Is this still practiced in that company or in the industry at all?We have them in our industry, but I've only ever seen them used when they were needed. Like when there are obvious performance issues.
These Asshair stories make me sad. They aren't really "FU" stories, ya know? I mean I love to read them and that you survived, but the bad Asshairs did too...Agreed. EVERYONE has some amount of Asshair in their lives. Fortunately I no longer abide Asshair in my work life - thank you FU money! I humbly beg everyone's pardon - these seem like 'honorable mentions' next to some of your stories. I'm not a vindictive person - live and let live, I say. But this seemed like a good forum to 'vilify them thru literature' (Jeffrey Chaucer, "First Knight").
Begging everyone's indulgence - next Asshair... Monday?
...Epic story about Felicia...
The only thing that would have made it better is if you had fired back some southern sass at her 'dear'ing you. A little "oh, sweetie, bless your heart, but I think I can afford to quit. Toodle ooh" said in a way that sounds sweet, but really tells her ' go F yourself PEACE OUT!'
Beautiful! Although I would have ended it with "Bye Felicia" as I was walking out the door, but that's just me.
Asshair#2: (1993)
Asshair#2 is a combo-creature of someone I'll call Agnes - my group's test manager - and a 300lb silverback diesel-dike test-lead I'll call Luna. When you work for a bad manager, but that manager works for a GOOD manager, you can always talk to the person who ultimately makes the decisions. But when the asshair has grown 2-layers-deep... Break out the scissors - you're in trouble.
After
Asshair#2: (1993)
But when the asshair has grown 2-layers-deep... Break out the scissors - you're in trouble.
If this is in fact the company I think it is, the brutal weeding of "underperforming" employees is a famous tactic. People still talk about it today. Now the top software companies just make it really hard to get hired, so they don't have to fire.
...Epic story about Felicia...
The only thing that would have made it better is if you had fired back some southern sass at her 'dear'ing you. A little "oh, sweetie, bless your heart, but I think I can afford to quit. Toodle ooh" said in a way that sounds sweet, but really tells her ' go F yourself PEACE OUT!'
Beautiful! Although I would have ended it with "Bye Felicia" as I was walking out the door, but that's just me.
I know it was something like 10 pages ago, but I can't resist...
Bad
Ass
Mother
Fussbudget
Asshole manager got shit canned right after he fired me because he didn't hire the right people to replace me (the jobs I left behind were political candy to be handed out by the governor's office to faithful helpers as it turns out).
These Asshair stories make me sad. They aren't really "FU" stories, ya know? I mean I love to read them and that you survived, but the bad Asshairs did too...Agreed. EVERYONE has some amount of Asshair in their lives. Fortunately I no longer abide Asshair in my work life - thank you FU money! I humbly beg everyone's pardon - these seem like 'honorable mentions' next to some of your stories. I'm not a vindictive person - live and let live, I say. But this seemed like a good forum to 'vilify them thru literature' (Jeffrey Chaucer, "First Knight").
I only have one (1x) "truly Epic" FU Money story - with Asshair#4.
Begging everyone's indulgence - next Asshair... Monday?
Hey, it's Tuesday, where is my asshair?
Asshair#2 is a combo-creature of someone I'll call Agnes - my group's test manager - and a 300lb silverback diesel-dike test-lead I'll call Luna.
Asshair#2 is a combo-creature of someone I'll call Agnes - my group's test manager - and a 300lb silverback diesel-dike test-lead I'll call Luna.
Why is that relevant? Also, the term is "dyke" unless your talking about a geographical feature.
Not sure what role, if any, FU money played in this guy's resignation (he had another job lined up), but it is an epic resignation letter:Wow, that was pretty intense.
https://troylaraviere.net/2016/08/30/dear-mayor-emanuel-i-resign-my-position-as-principal-of-the-1-rated-neighborhood-school-in-chicago/
I saw that and thought it was some random car-speak that I didn't understand.Asshair#2 is a combo-creature of someone I'll call Agnes - my group's test manager - and a 300lb silverback diesel-dike test-lead I'll call Luna.
Why is that relevant? Also, the term is "dyke" unless your talking about a geographical feature.
Funkystickman..........can you share which company this is? I work for a very small ag company and while there's really no chance of them moving our product to Mexico, it's interesting to me to see more and more of what you are saying. The farmers are going to be at the mercy of the industry GIANTS for fertilizer, seed, etc.
And yes, please post any updates. Thanks.
@FunkyStickman - FYI - That picture is enough to figure out the company. I have no interest or industry knowledge, but would take it down if you really don't want the company to be identifiable. Good luck with everything.
Not sure what role, if any, FU money played in this guy's resignation (he had another job lined up), but it is an epic resignation letter:
https://troylaraviere.net/2016/08/30/dear-mayor-emanuel-i-resign-my-position-as-principal-of-the-1-rated-neighborhood-school-in-chicago/
So do you preemptively take the package, risk going to HR and asking (and possibly get cut anyway without the package), or just pray they don't notice you?
@FunkyStickman - FYI - That picture is enough to figure out the company. I have no interest or industry knowledge, but would take it down if you really don't want the company to be identifiable. Good luck with everything.
I'm not that worried about it... I have "FU" money in the bank. ;)
@FunkyStickman - FYI - That picture is enough to figure out the company. I have no interest or industry knowledge, but would take it down if you really don't want the company to be identifiable. Good luck with everything.
I'm not that worried about it... I have "FU" money in the bank. ;)
Funky, you may want to remove that photo. About 5 minutes of Google netted the likely company you work for and location you work at... Or at least block out the ranking.
Couldn't see a way to remove the attachment, just deleted the post.
Couldn't see a way to remove the attachment, just deleted the post.
I got you.
Feel free to go back and edit anything else you want, but I think that's all the identifying stuff. Left the question about take the package now vs. try to stay.
I'd take the package. ;)
I saw that and thought it was some random car-speak that I didn't understand.Asshair#2 is a combo-creature of someone I'll call Agnes - my group's test manager - and a 300lb silverback diesel-dike test-lead I'll call Luna.Why is that relevant? Also, the term is "dyke" unless your talking about a geographical feature.
It's a homophobic insultNot anymore, the US Patent and Trademark Office ruled that it isn't offensive
Alas, he didn't get the buyout. His manager told him he was nuts if he thought they were going to let him go, "you're too valuable".When you're that close to retirement anyway, if I was told that I would start considering ways to become less "valuable".
Alas, he didn't get the buyout. His manager told him he was nuts if he thought they were going to let him go, "you're too valuable".When you're that close to retirement anyway, if I was told that I would start considering ways to become less "valuable".
Well then that's horrible. One of my best friends is a lesbian and overweight (though not 300 lb). I guess I assume most people are beyond insults of this kind. I should know better.I saw that and thought it was some random car-speak that I didn't understand.Asshair#2 is a combo-creature of someone I'll call Agnes - my group's test manager - and a 300lb silverback diesel-dike test-lead I'll call Luna.Why is that relevant? Also, the term is "dyke" unless your talking about a geographical feature.
No, it isn't car speak. It's a homophobic insult and, given the "300lb" comment, a fat phobic slur as well. Notice that the OP didn't comment on the sexuality or weight of any of the other managers, only the one assumed to be a masculine lesbian and considered to weigh 300 lbs.
I saw that and thought it was some random car-speak that I didn't understand.Asshair#2 is a combo-creature of someone I'll call Agnes - my group's test manager - and a {redacted} test-lead I'll call Luna.
Why is that relevant? Also, the term is "dyke" unless your talking about a geographical feature.
Thanks for the follow-up and apology. Gold. Star.I saw that and thought it was some random car-speak that I didn't understand.Asshair#2 is a combo-creature of someone I'll call Agnes - my group's test manager - and a {redacted} test-lead I'll call Luna.
Why is that relevant? Also, the term is "dyke" unless your talking about a geographical feature.
Apologies all around. It bothered me more than anyone, and was poor attempt to be descriptive, and instead came off as offensive. I've updated the OP to indicate the effect of the behavior - this Asshair's unwavering vehement and consistent prejudice against men (misandrist). It was a large factor, but one I could not address, mention, or even acknowledge within the office political environment without giving the perception of being a white-male misogynist insensitive anti-feminist. (Hopefully none of which could ever be used to validly describe *this* Mother Fussbudget)
I've updated original post, but it would require a MOD to edit quotes by others
As for "Asshair #3"...
so... here, or anti-mustachian wall of shame?
I've posted a few mild FU stories... I have a feeling my best one is coming soon.
Our factory (small agriculture manufacturing facility, part of a huge global brand) just got the news that they're moving 60% of our product to Brazil, and laying off 100+ people, including 20 salaried folks (some of which have been here for over 25 years) and 20% of our wage workers (of which I am one).
Absolutely everybody is freaking out about it. Except me.
We have to go through routine performance reviews, of which I always give canned answers. Cause I Just don't give a crap.
Last week, my boss (who should have been laid off) was asking me about where I wanted to go in the company, and why our department got bad reviews for development/promotion opportunities.
He says "Well, what's your plan with the company?"
I said "I'd be perfectly happy sitting at home, writing novels for a living. I know I'm not ever going to get a promotion, because Dave killed himself going to night school to get a degree, and he gets dumped on and passed over for everything. You think I'd have a chance? Not even interested."
I'll keep the faithful Mustachians updated on my FU progress if/when it goes down.
Substitute "office" for factory and "Philippines or India" for Brazil, and that's my situation, except I'm definitely getting laid off. Or, as I like to think of it, set free. :D
Hi,
Not an epic story but personally satisfying.
I find my work very rewarding (challenging, meaningful, like my coworkers, still learning, generally fascinating what happens during surgery). However the long shifts, lots of "on call"time and very limited vacation time plus having to "ask" for permission to take time off got old fast. So for a few months I asked about going part time. We're short staffed so kept getting the response of "we're not cutting anyone's hours, let's talk again when we have more people."
Finally I said F... it and gave notice saying on xx date, I'm resigning my full time position but would like to continue on a per diem basis. They went with it (see part about being short staffed). It's been marvelous, minimal required shifts but can basically sign up for as many as I want, no call requirements and I tell them my availability, not ask when I can take off. So much more control over my schedule but still get to do work I really enjoy (when I want to be there).
Being FI and not needing the pay or the benefits made it a much easier call. I wish that position of power for everyone.
Cheers
Substitute "office" for factory and "Philippines or India" for Brazil, and that's my situation, except I'm definitely getting laid off. Or, as I like to think of it, set free. :D
Congratulations!
(Only in this forum could I say that)
This being said, I have never seen a story about using that FU money. Please, share your stories!!
"It was a cheap act of corporate extortion and I pulled it off."
"It was a cheap act of corporate extortion and I pulled it off."
"It was a cheap act of corporate extortion and I pulled it off."
Enjoyed reading that. :)
Enjoyed reading that. :)
I think I have seen your username. Were you on prospers.org? Or the original prospers, before so many were undone, and cast into Outer Darkness?
I was indeed. I was on the Black Friday conference call, in fact. :)Enjoyed reading that. :)
Thank you; I enjoyed living it. I am ashamed to say there were too many times when I was young and stuck around to be abased, because I thought I would starve my small family if I stood up for my dignity.
I think I have seen your username. Were you on prospers.org? Or the original prospers, before so many were undone, and cast into Outer Darkness?
Hi,
Not an epic story but personally satisfying.
I find my work very rewarding (challenging, meaningful, like my coworkers, still learning, generally fascinating what happens during surgery). However the long shifts, lots of "on call"time and very limited vacation time plus having to "ask" for permission to take time off got old fast. So for a few months I asked about going part time. We're short staffed so kept getting the response of "we're not cutting anyone's hours, let's talk again when we have more people."
Finally I said F... it and gave notice saying on xx date, I'm resigning my full time position but would like to continue on a per diem basis. They went with it (see part about being short staffed). It's been marvelous, minimal required shifts but can basically sign up for as many as I want, no call requirements and I tell them my availability, not ask when I can take off. So much more control over my schedule but still get to do work I really enjoy (when I want to be there).
Being FI and not needing the pay or the benefits made it a much easier call. I wish that position of power for everyone.
Cheers
Was forwarded this email yesterday from an engineer at our company who had finally had enough...
Holy shit.
I don't know what I would have done in the face of that kind of loss.
This being said, I have never seen a story about using that FU money. Please, share your stories!!"It was a cheap act of corporate extortion and I pulled it off."
Not sure what role, if any, FU money played in this guy's resignation (he had another job lined up), but it is an epic resignation letter:
https://troylaraviere.net/2016/08/30/dear-mayor-emanuel-i-resign-my-position-as-principal-of-the-1-rated-neighborhood-school-in-chicago/
That was a thing of beauty! Wow!
I'm curious what percentage of your salary your severance was if you're willing to share?
Mother Fussbudget, I'll be honest, I feel physically ill after reading that. Thanks for sharing what must have been an incredibly difficult lesson and I'm glad you're happy and in a good place now.Same here. What a read, I broke out in cold sweats and it's not even my cash! Seriously well done on picking up the pieces and moving on with your life.
Looking forward to the next story.
Man - there's a lifetime of financial stories in that one installment. My life is boring.Boring is good. You don't want to live in interesting times.
+1. Boring is good.Man - there's a lifetime of financial stories in that one installment. My life is boring.Boring is good. You don't want to live in interesting times.
Not epic but still good story:
Have been working for a big international bank for one year and they tell me I have to start working 11am - 8pm. I tell them no I have kids and want to see them. They tell me you take it or you have to resign. So I tell them fire me then because I am not doing it. They tell me I would not get unemployment and would I be OK? Yes I would; I can retire now if I want to I just work for the luxuries now.
Long story short I resign because it's the same as being fired vs unemployment but I have to give 60 days notice per contract so I do this but don't work evenings. After 60 days they ask me if I want to stay longer because they have not found a replacement and I say no. Left and took the whole summer off while fielding multiple calls from recruiters looking for a very specific skillset that matches what they need and I have.
Satisfaction :)
Oof.. that December '99 call.. if only. :(
Oof.. that December '99 call.. if only. :(
Always, right? I started working at a start up company in Jan 2000. We got bought shortly thereafter. (So my options were not vested).
Fully vested, they were worth about $840k at the peak. (but not vested).
In any event...I had a coworker who started before I did - by a year or two. So he was partially vested. He exercised his shares and opted to do the margin thing for taxes. Then the 2000 crash happened...he ended up having to sell shares on the margin calls...in the end, he LOST money. LOST money.
By the time I was vested the stock was 1/5 the price. I, my friends, am a "same day sale" girl.
Oof.. that December '99 call.. if only. :(
Always, right? I started working at a start up company in Jan 2000. We got bought shortly thereafter. (So my options were not vested).
Fully vested, they were worth about $840k at the peak. (but not vested).
In any event...I had a coworker who started before I did - by a year or two. So he was partially vested. He exercised his shares and opted to do the margin thing for taxes. Then the 2000 crash happened...he ended up having to sell shares on the margin calls...in the end, he LOST money. LOST money.
By the time I was vested the stock was 1/5 the price. I, my friends, am a "same day sale" girl.
My father calmly reminds him that he is diabetic and needs to eat right now to prevent a medical issue. No dice. The son demands he put the sandwich down or be fired. My father thinks for a second and then slowly takes a bite of sandwich.....promptly fired. Has enough of a stache to last until the company makes a big settlement to avoid the lawsuit.
The flip-side is that if you're following your own investment strategy, you have only yourself to blame when the market, or your portfolio value "goes south". But I can live with THAT better than the alternative. Better the devil I know...
I'm curious what percentage of your salary your severance was if you're willing to share?
Severance was your full salary at the rate of a week for each year of employment, so 7 weeks or not quite 14% of my annual salary. The meeting with K the Queen of HR would have been a triumph if I could have pulled it off. My idea (pre-mustachian, but kind of an entelechy of mustachery if only it had worked) was to be paid none of it and have the whole of the severance dumped to my 401(k), which would have put it WAY past the company match, and indeed, very close to the annual limit for that year, plus fully and immediately vested. Alas - damned impertinent rogue of a logician HR Queen that she was - K pointed out that 401(K)s were for employees, and a person receiving severance by definition was no longer an employee.
I got a severance payment once, and it was indeed completely ineligible for 401-K. Not even the usual amount that I had withheld, and no match. Made me sad!I'm curious what percentage of your salary your severance was if you're willing to share?
Severance was your full salary at the rate of a week for each year of employment, so 7 weeks or not quite 14% of my annual salary. The meeting with K the Queen of HR would have been a triumph if I could have pulled it off. My idea (pre-mustachian, but kind of an entelechy of mustachery if only it had worked) was to be paid none of it and have the whole of the severance dumped to my 401(k), which would have put it WAY past the company match, and indeed, very close to the annual limit for that year, plus fully and immediately vested. Alas - damned impertinent rogue of a logician HR Queen that she was - K pointed out that 401(K)s were for employees, and a person receiving severance by definition was no longer an employee.
You are receiving severance payment based on your work as employee. Most likely you were still an employee during the discussion.
By her logic, you shouldn't get that final paycheck either since you were no longer an employee.
I got a severance payment once, and it was indeed completely ineligible for 401-K. Not even the usual amount that I had withheld, and no match. Made me sad!I'm curious what percentage of your salary your severance was if you're willing to share?
Severance was your full salary at the rate of a week for each year of employment, so 7 weeks or not quite 14% of my annual salary. The meeting with K the Queen of HR would have been a triumph if I could have pulled it off. My idea (pre-mustachian, but kind of an entelechy of mustachery if only it had worked) was to be paid none of it and have the whole of the severance dumped to my 401(k), which would have put it WAY past the company match, and indeed, very close to the annual limit for that year, plus fully and immediately vested. Alas - damned impertinent rogue of a logician HR Queen that she was - K pointed out that 401(K)s were for employees, and a person receiving severance by definition was no longer an employee.
You are receiving severance payment based on your work as employee. Most likely you were still an employee during the discussion.
By her logic, you shouldn't get that final paycheck either since you were no longer an employee.
Now my father is semi-retired working at an auto dealership driving cars around form point A to B because it is fun and he no longer needs to work thanks to incompetent manager and a sandwich.
Well done!
And great writing. Enjoyed reading that. :)
Holy shit.
I don't know what I would have done in the face of that kind of loss. Perhaps hire some out of work tattoo "artists" to emblazon "Come on -- it's Enron!" across the guy's forehead?
I have not read everyone's stories yet, but I do have my own epic FU money story.
I worked at a law firm with 13 attorneys, straight out of law school at 26. I had lots of options because I went to a regionally respected law school and finished near the top of my law class. I rejected many offers for salary positions and chose this firm because it allowed me to create my own practice. We split fees based on various percentages. There was no cap on my earnings.
Fast forward 3.5 years. I was 29 years old. My practice had exploded. There were basically two problems. First, by the time of the FU incident I was making more money than anyone in the firm and I was the youngest person there. Second, the managing partner and the office administrator were incompetent, bitter and creating a toxic work environment.
A key part of the story is that 6 weeks prior to the FU incident, the managing partner used $10,000 of my money, without permission, to pay all the partners salaries because they had "cash flow issues." They money was paid back a week later. This signaled financial shenanigans on top of being totally, totally toxic.
One day, the managing partner approached me and said she wanted to renegotiate my deal AND audit every case for the appropriate percentage from the prior two years. The renegotiation was ridiculous. The audit was a major, totally unwarranted affront to my integrity - from a person who had just taken $10,000 of my money!
So, I went home with my wife - coincidentally an auditor and accountant. We performed the audit ourselves and ran all the numbers. I discovered that for the prior two years, less than 1% of my income had come from their referrals. I was a major profit center for the firm - generating over $250,000 for the firm over the prior 24 months. And, in fact, the toxic office administrator had intentionally mis-categorized my referrals thereby underpaying me.
Fortunately, I had been on the MMM train since the beginning and had an FU money war-chest of a couple hundred thousand dollars. Interestingly, the MMM choices had been the object of much curiosity since everyone knew I was making a lot but spending very little. Why are you riding your bike to work? Why did you buy such a "modest" house for your income. Why don't you get a new car? Those are actual comments.
So, the FU moment arrived when I delivered a renegotiated contract proposal to the partners. I proposed to pay them a flat monthly fee that amounted to 35% of what they were currently getting. I proposed that if they ever held any of my money without legal authority or permission they pay $1,000 per day for the privilege. Egg on the face of managing partner who had not advised anyone of the $10,000 "cash flow" issue or her proposed audit and renegotiation.
A comment this board will particularly appreciate in response, "We can't take this deal, we'd have to reduce our salaries and our budgets are set to our salaries." Facepalm.
During the wind up phase, the toxic, money stealing office administrator - who had been around long enough to have a way, way over-inflated sense of importance - spoke up during a tense conversation about splitting remaining funds. I looked at her and said, "You have no ownership in this firm, I have never been in business with you and don't want to hear anything you have to say." Hahahahaha. Her jaw dropped. Her upper lip trembled with rage. She didn't say a freaking word. It was the best moment of the entire thing, even better than the contract proposal.
Long story short, I opened my own law firm one week later. I now pay 20% less in overhead. I work dramatically reduced hours because I have actual, dedicated staff for just me - which they would never give me. Also, my gross receipts are up about 10% in the first 12 months. Life is good.
As a post script - the incompetent managing partner hired a guy to fill my office. Remember, that office was earning over $250,000 for the firm in the proceeding 24 months. The guy was paid a salary for six months - rather than have his pay tied to his productivity. Eventually it came out he was a total fraud who lied about being licensed in our state (he did have a different, faraway state). He even filed court documents without the appropriate license. He was fired immediately and the office remains vacant, producing zero profits. Schadenfreude? Yes.
Also as a disclaimer, there are many, many attorneys who are great at servicing their clients but not so good at business. In the event I needed legal help, I would immediately hire any of these attorneys - except the managing partner. They really are competent, professional people - but bad business and money managers. In the end, I maintained great relationships with everyone except the managing partner and the office administrator.
But why did they turn their eyes to me prior to the $10,000 blow up and coding discovery? I'll never really know.
But why did they turn their eyes to me prior to the $10,000 blow up and coding discovery? I'll never really know.
Greed. You were making so much, and they were going to actually have to give it to you, instead of keeping it themselves.
Thanks for the followup!
I have not read everyone's stories yet, but I do have my own epic FU money story.
I worked at a law firm with 13 attorneys, straight out of law school at 26. I had lots of options because I went to a regionally respected law school and finished near the top of my law class. I rejected many offers for salary positions and chose this firm because it allowed me to create my own practice. We split fees based on various percentages. There was no cap on my earnings.
Fast forward 3.5 years. I was 29 years old. My practice had exploded. There were basically two problems. First, by the time of the FU incident I was making more money than anyone in the firm and I was the youngest person there. Second, the managing partner and the office administrator were incompetent, bitter and creating a toxic work environment.
A key part of the story is that 6 weeks prior to the FU incident, the managing partner used $10,000 of my money, without permission, to pay all the partners salaries because they had "cash flow issues." They money was paid back a week later. This signaled financial shenanigans on top of being totally, totally toxic.
One day, the managing partner approached me and said she wanted to renegotiate my deal AND audit every case for the appropriate percentage from the prior two years. The renegotiation was ridiculous. The audit was a major, totally unwarranted affront to my integrity - from a person who had just taken $10,000 of my money!
So, I went home with my wife - coincidentally an auditor and accountant. We performed the audit ourselves and ran all the numbers. I discovered that for the prior two years, less than 1% of my income had come from their referrals. I was a major profit center for the firm - generating over $250,000 for the firm over the prior 24 months. And, in fact, the toxic office administrator had intentionally mis-categorized my referrals thereby underpaying me.
Fortunately, I had been on the MMM train since the beginning and had an FU money war-chest of a couple hundred thousand dollars. Interestingly, the MMM choices had been the object of much curiosity since everyone knew I was making a lot but spending very little. Why are you riding your bike to work? Why did you buy such a "modest" house for your income. Why don't you get a new car? Those are actual comments.
So, the FU moment arrived when I delivered a renegotiated contract proposal to the partners. I proposed to pay them a flat monthly fee that amounted to 35% of what they were currently getting. I proposed that if they ever held any of my money without legal authority or permission they pay $1,000 per day for the privilege. Egg on the face of managing partner who had not advised anyone of the $10,000 "cash flow" issue or her proposed audit and renegotiation.
A comment this board will particularly appreciate in response, "We can't take this deal, we'd have to reduce our salaries and our budgets are set to our salaries." Facepalm.
During the wind up phase, the toxic, money stealing office administrator - who had been around long enough to have a way, way over-inflated sense of importance - spoke up during a tense conversation about splitting remaining funds. I looked at her and said, "You have no ownership in this firm, I have never been in business with you and don't want to hear anything you have to say." Hahahahaha. Her jaw dropped. Her upper lip trembled with rage. She didn't say a freaking word. It was the best moment of the entire thing, even better than the contract proposal.
Long story short, I opened my own law firm one week later. I now pay 20% less in overhead. I work dramatically reduced hours because I have actual, dedicated staff for just me - which they would never give me. Also, my gross receipts are up about 10% in the first 12 months. Life is good.
As a post script - the incompetent managing partner hired a guy to fill my office. Remember, that office was earning over $250,000 for the firm in the proceeding 24 months. The guy was paid a salary for six months - rather than have his pay tied to his productivity. Eventually it came out he was a total fraud who lied about being licensed in our state (he did have a different, faraway state). He even filed court documents without the appropriate license. He was fired immediately and the office remains vacant, producing zero profits. Schadenfreude? Yes.
Also as a disclaimer, there are many, many attorneys who are great at servicing their clients but not so good at business. In the event I needed legal help, I would immediately hire any of these attorneys - except the managing partner. They really are competent, professional people - but bad business and money managers. In the end, I maintained great relationships with everyone except the managing partner and the office administrator.
I have an update to this story. Recently, one of the partners of this law firm left and decided to open his law firm, right across the hallway from me. I got a little inside info that had remained hidden for two years.
It turns out the Managing Partner and the toxic office administrator were totally in cahoots to oust me from the firm. After I delivered my proposal, described above, there was a meeting where the partners were going to respond. Apparently, it had been the topic of conversation that it would not make sense for me to continue to pay larger and larger sums of money and they would eventually have to change my deal - which is what I was asking for. So, my proposal was not a surprise and they were willing to work with me.
Enter the managing partner and administrator: the administrator entered the partner meeting and tendered her immediate resignation if she had to continue to work with me. She then walked out. This would have created a temporary chaos and she was the paralegal for the firms' founder who no one would override. So, they didn't make me a counter offer and instead asked, "If we don't keep him, will Administrator come back." To which managing partner replied immediately, "I'll talk to her about that." Moments later, the resignation was withdrawn and my fate was sealed. The partner who just left the firm - because the same managing partner and toxic administrator were costing him lots and lots of money and stress, said he was in shock at how the whole group had been so masterfully manipulated.
If you recall the story from above, I told her off AFTER she had done all this. It only makes it sweeter.
As they say, living well is the best revenge. I've had my own practice for two years now. I've doubled my net worth. I work 20-30 hours less per week and make more money. Life is good. They really did me a huge favor.
P.S. My leading theory on why the office administrator wanted me gone is that if I had stayed I would have been forced to address her purposely mis-coding my cases and, thereby, underpaying me. This would have been very bad for her as a major breach of trust. So, I think she knew that if I stayed her shenanigans would become a mini-office scandal and potentially she could lose her job. She went for the jugular when she had the chance. Why the Managing Partner was so upset? I think it had to do with calling her out on the $10,000 in front of everyone. But why did they turn their eyes to me prior to the $10,000 blow up and coding discovery? I'll never really know.
Thanks for the follow-up and apology. Gold. Star.I saw that and thought it was some random car-speak that I didn't understand.Asshair#2 is a combo-creature of someone I'll call Agnes - my group's test manager - and a {redacted} test-lead I'll call Luna.
Why is that relevant? Also, the term is "dyke" unless your talking about a geographical feature.
Apologies all around. It bothered me more than anyone, and was poor attempt to be descriptive, and instead came off as offensive. I've updated the OP to indicate the effect of the behavior - this Asshair's unwavering vehement and consistent prejudice against men (misandrist). It was a large factor, but one I could not address, mention, or even acknowledge within the office political environment without giving the perception of being a white-male misogynist insensitive anti-feminist. (Hopefully none of which could ever be used to validly describe *this* Mother Fussbudget)
I've updated original post, but it would require a MOD to edit quotes by others
Wow. Fucking lawyers. No offense.
If I understand correctly, they were screwing you over by reclassifying your work so they could pay you less. I'm surprised you let that go so easily.
Sounds like that practice has serious ethical issues. Have you considered reporting them to any applicable oversight?
It was actually the non-lawyer who did the miscoding :) It wasn't a lot of money, maybe a few thousand dollars out of a few hundred thousand dollars. Also, the other attorneys in the firm are influential. For example, they could sabotage a judicial application or some other appointment. Although, with FIRE as a goal you can imagine that isn't super high on my priority list. But still, it was not really in my interest to make enemies.
Wife told me "for once, I'm totally not worried. We're prepared for this financially."
Put a huge smile on my face.
Wife told me "for once, I'm totally not worried. We're prepared for this financially."
Put a huge smile on my face.
That must have felt great. You have the ability to weather a storm because of the financial plans you've made and you have a wife who feels confident despite the upcoming uncertainty!
Wife told me "for once, I'm totally not worried. We're prepared for this financially."
Put a huge smile on my face.
That must have felt great. You have the ability to weather a storm because of the financial plans you've made and you have a wife who feels confident despite the upcoming uncertainty!
Similar stuff at my company (it's hit the news now, so I have no fears). I'm not eligible for the voluntary separation, but I did update my resume. Don't expect anything will happen until mid 2017, if not later. And considering the number of emails I get from recruiters, I have no worries about finding a new job if its necessary.
Wife told me "for once, I'm totally not worried. We're prepared for this financially."
Put a huge smile on my face.
That must have felt great. You have the ability to weather a storm because of the financial plans you've made and you have a wife who feels confident despite the upcoming uncertainty!
Yes! That's a wonderful feeling. Well done. My DH quit his job on the spot almost 2 years ago now, and spent 2 months going to local places sniffing out the perfect job. We weren't worried financially in the least. It feels so good. Glad you guys have that.
Similar stuff at my company (it's hit the news now, so I have no fears). I'm not eligible for the voluntary separation, but I did update my resume. Don't expect anything will happen until mid 2017, if not later. And considering the number of emails I get from recruiters, I have no worries about finding a new job if its necessary.
Why not be proactive and follow up with some of the recruiters now, while you don't need to, rather than hope stuff is still available when it becomes necessary? Often worth a switch anyways for a raise.
Similar stuff at my company (it's hit the news now, so I have no fears). I'm not eligible for the voluntary separation, but I did update my resume. Don't expect anything will happen until mid 2017, if not later. And considering the number of emails I get from recruiters, I have no worries about finding a new job if its necessary.
Why not be proactive and follow up with some of the recruiters now, while you don't need to, rather than hope stuff is still available when it becomes necessary? Often worth a switch anyways for a raise.
Also take into account that, if layoffs happen in bunches, you're going to be competing with a flood of others for the same positions. If you reposition yourself ahead of the wave, you're off-peak relative to when all of your former colleagues are looking. Who's to say that these same recruiters aren't also talking to your coworkers?
My fu moment came in February of this year after three years in sales making a ton of money as a young lad however I caught my higher up management taking money out of my comission and putting it into their own . . STEALING.. when I started asking questions they become very defensive. . So I quit right after making a sale. . Literally walked out and said I am going in a different direction. . Fast forward to now my wife and I own our own company buying and selling real estate and we have double our net worth within that time frame. . I often want to call and instead of saying fu say thank you so so much for what you did. .Loved your last sentence! Badass indeed.
Wife told me "for once, I'm totally not worried. We're prepared for this financially."
Put a huge smile on my face.
That must have felt great. You have the ability to weather a storm because of the financial plans you've made and you have a wife who feels confident despite the upcoming uncertainty!
Similar stuff at my company (it's hit the news now, so I have no fears). I'm not eligible for the voluntary separation, but I did update my resume. Don't expect anything will happen until mid 2017, if not later. And considering the number of emails I get from recruiters, I have no worries about finding a new job if its necessary.
Wife told me "for once, I'm totally not worried. We're prepared for this financially."
Put a huge smile on my face.
That must have felt great. You have the ability to weather a storm because of the financial plans you've made and you have a wife who feels confident despite the upcoming uncertainty!
Similar stuff at my company (it's hit the news now, so I have no fears). I'm not eligible for the voluntary separation, but I did update my resume. Don't expect anything will happen until mid 2017, if not later. And considering the number of emails I get from recruiters, I have no worries about finding a new job if its necessary.
How to do you initially connect with recruiters?
How to do you initially connect with recruiters?
How to do you initially connect with recruiters?
Linkedin. Responding to online job ads (typically Indeed). Sometimes through CL Jobs section. Also, you can google search and call recruiters that work in your specific industry and location.
Seriously, make sure you have a LinkedIn account. Update something and it will ping recruiters that you have an 'active' tag.
Just to give you folks an update on my situation:
I was told Wednesday that my position is being eliminated in a couple of weeks. I'm now looking for work.
They moved me from an office job to working 11-hour shifts on the factory floor assembling heavy machinery, because so many people have quit. My legs and feet are killing me- especially the hardware implanted in my left leg. Screw that, man.
Yeah.... I'm not sticking around. FU money, indeed. Got a few months income while I look for more suitable work.
Just to give you folks an update on my situation:
I was told Wednesday that my position is being eliminated in a couple of weeks. I'm now looking for work.
They moved me from an office job to working 11-hour shifts on the factory floor assembling heavy machinery, because so many people have quit. My legs and feet are killing me- especially the hardware implanted in my left leg. Screw that, man.
Yeah.... I'm not sticking around. FU money, indeed. Got a few months income while I look for more suitable work.
Ahhh....having the money to tell bean counters where to shove it.
Update on my FU story. As a reminder, this is the person that got effed over by a bean counter for not perfectly following a ridiculously complex accounting system.
I chatted with him a bit back and he is currently enrolled in the local community college to learn a foreign language. His plan is to slow travel this country next spring / summer.
Ahhh....having the money to tell bean counters where to shove it.
We blame the IT guys.Shouldn't we all be blaming the lawyers and politicians?
The answer to this is always yes.We blame the IT guys.Shouldn't we all be blaming the lawyers and politicians?
How to do you initially connect with recruiters?
Linkedin. Responding to online job ads (typically Indeed). Sometimes through CL Jobs section. Also, you can google search and call recruiters that work in your specific industry and location.
Seriously, make sure you have a LinkedIn account. Update something and it will ping recruiters that you have an 'active' tag.
You can contact the big recruiters first, and you'll forever be on their list from then on. I'm not on LinkedIn and I get contacted constantly from recruiters in states I haven't lived in for 5 years, because I once talked to them about a job.
And we IT guys blame managers who requested the overly complex system (or forced us to make a well-working, simple system much more complex) because they absolutely needed some useless reporting function. With colors. And interactive. And "can you put it on a website so I can check it from my phone"?Update on my FU story. As a reminder, this is the person that got effed over by a bean counter for not perfectly following a ridiculously complex accounting system.
I chatted with him a bit back and he is currently enrolled in the local community college to learn a foreign language. His plan is to slow travel this country next spring / summer.
Ahhh....having the money to tell bean counters where to shove it.
On behalf of all Bean Counters I can tell you we have just as much trouble with complex accounting systems as the rest of you lot.
We blame the IT guys.
And we IT guys blame managers who requested the overly complex system (or forced us to make a well-working, simple system much more complex) because they absolutely needed some useless reporting function. With colors. And interactive. And "can you put it on a website so I can check it from my phone"?Update on my FU story. As a reminder, this is the person that got effed over by a bean counter for not perfectly following a ridiculously complex accounting system.
I chatted with him a bit back and he is currently enrolled in the local community college to learn a foreign language. His plan is to slow travel this country next spring / summer.
Ahhh....having the money to tell bean counters where to shove it.
On behalf of all Bean Counters I can tell you we have just as much trouble with complex accounting systems as the rest of you lot.
We blame the IT guys.
(http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/uploads/projecttree1.jpg)
And we IT guys blame managers who requested the overly complex system (or forced us to make a well-working, simple system much more complex) because they absolutely needed some useless reporting function. With colors. And interactive. And "can you put it on a website so I can check it from my phone"?Update on my FU story. As a reminder, this is the person that got effed over by a bean counter for not perfectly following a ridiculously complex accounting system.
I chatted with him a bit back and he is currently enrolled in the local community college to learn a foreign language. His plan is to slow travel this country next spring / summer.
Ahhh....having the money to tell bean counters where to shove it.
On behalf of all Bean Counters I can tell you we have just as much trouble with complex accounting systems as the rest of you lot.
We blame the IT guys.
No no no, what managers REALLY want is this great reporting system that links all the databases that we have. So we can pull, analyze, and report data efficiently!And we IT guys blame managers who requested the overly complex system (or forced us to make a well-working, simple system much more complex) because they absolutely needed some useless reporting function. With colors. And interactive. And "can you put it on a website so I can check it from my phone"?Update on my FU story. As a reminder, this is the person that got effed over by a bean counter for not perfectly following a ridiculously complex accounting system.
I chatted with him a bit back and he is currently enrolled in the local community college to learn a foreign language. His plan is to slow travel this country next spring / summer.
Ahhh....having the money to tell bean counters where to shove it.
On behalf of all Bean Counters I can tell you we have just as much trouble with complex accounting systems as the rest of you lot.
We blame the IT guys.
Or they want $500k in performance, scalability, and redundancy, but only want to spend $50k to do it.
No no no, what managers REALLY want is this great reporting system that links all the databases that we have. So we can pull, analyze, and report data efficiently!And we IT guys blame managers who requested the overly complex system (or forced us to make a well-working, simple system much more complex) because they absolutely needed some useless reporting function. With colors. And interactive. And "can you put it on a website so I can check it from my phone"?Update on my FU story. As a reminder, this is the person that got effed over by a bean counter for not perfectly following a ridiculously complex accounting system.
I chatted with him a bit back and he is currently enrolled in the local community college to learn a foreign language. His plan is to slow travel this country next spring / summer.
Ahhh....having the money to tell bean counters where to shove it.
On behalf of all Bean Counters I can tell you we have just as much trouble with complex accounting systems as the rest of you lot.
We blame the IT guys.
Or they want $500k in performance, scalability, and redundancy, but only want to spend $50k to do it.
But!! What they want is to NOT spend any money on it. No, we don't need in-house IT, nor do we need a full time DBA! We are a start up and WE CAN DO IT, with one lady who lives in another state & works part time, one guy who works full time somewhere else and comes in for a few hours a week, one young guy who likes programming on the side and...people like me, who SUCK at programming but are DESPERATE to find ways to pull the data that doesn't involve hours of cutting and pasting, or querying 3 different databases.
/rant
And we IT guys blame managers who requested the overly complex system (or forced us to make a well-working, simple system much more complex) because they absolutely needed some useless reporting function. With colors. And interactive. And "can you put it on a website so I can check it from my phone"?Update on my FU story. As a reminder, this is the person that got effed over by a bean counter for not perfectly following a ridiculously complex accounting system.
I chatted with him a bit back and he is currently enrolled in the local community college to learn a foreign language. His plan is to slow travel this country next spring / summer.
Ahhh....having the money to tell bean counters where to shove it.
On behalf of all Bean Counters I can tell you we have just as much trouble with complex accounting systems as the rest of you lot.
We blame the IT guys.
No no no, what managers REALLY want is this great reporting system that links all the databases that we have. So we can pull, analyze, and report data efficiently!And we IT guys blame managers who requested the overly complex system (or forced us to make a well-working, simple system much more complex) because they absolutely needed some useless reporting function. With colors. And interactive. And "can you put it on a website so I can check it from my phone"?Update on my FU story. As a reminder, this is the person that got effed over by a bean counter for not perfectly following a ridiculously complex accounting system.
I chatted with him a bit back and he is currently enrolled in the local community college to learn a foreign language. His plan is to slow travel this country next spring / summer.
Ahhh....having the money to tell bean counters where to shove it.
On behalf of all Bean Counters I can tell you we have just as much trouble with complex accounting systems as the rest of you lot.
We blame the IT guys.
Or they want $500k in performance, scalability, and redundancy, but only want to spend $50k to do it.
But!! What they want is to NOT spend any money on it. No, we don't need in-house IT, nor do we need a full time DBA! We are a start up and WE CAN DO IT, with one lady who lives in another state & works part time, one guy who works full time somewhere else and comes in for a few hours a week, one young guy who likes programming on the side and...people like me, who SUCK at programming but are DESPERATE to find ways to pull the data that doesn't involve hours of cutting and pasting, or querying 3 different databases.
/rant
Hmmm... No Name Guy...
Our project reporting starts off simple, then Project Managers start getting upset that we tally up ALL of their expenses, including their celebration drinks.
I've had PMs ask me "what is this?" and then express shock when I send them over the invoice they signed 3 weeks earlier.
It's starts with a single account code (IT project costs), cost centre and project identifier code.
Then they complain about not getting GST refunds, so we add a GST account code for certain expenses.
Then they complain that the contractors costs are being lumped with permanent staff, so we split the staff costs in two.
Then they complain that the IT staff costs are being captured in the staff expense line and not the IT line, so we need a manual workaround that fits with their reporting and not the overall group.
Then they complain that the costs are not being broken down by region, so we implement cost centres for each country in the world.
Then they wonder why we keep coming back to them asking to confirm the details they've written on invoices because according to their own reporting requirement they've coded it incorrectly.
I shouldn't rant however. These guys help keep me employed :)
I'm sorry that you feel my pain...the pain of the last 8 years...No no no, what managers REALLY want is this great reporting system that links all the databases that we have. So we can pull, analyze, and report data efficiently!And we IT guys blame managers who requested the overly complex system (or forced us to make a well-working, simple system much more complex) because they absolutely needed some useless reporting function. With colors. And interactive. And "can you put it on a website so I can check it from my phone"?Update on my FU story. As a reminder, this is the person that got effed over by a bean counter for not perfectly following a ridiculously complex accounting system.
I chatted with him a bit back and he is currently enrolled in the local community college to learn a foreign language. His plan is to slow travel this country next spring / summer.
Ahhh....having the money to tell bean counters where to shove it.
On behalf of all Bean Counters I can tell you we have just as much trouble with complex accounting systems as the rest of you lot.
We blame the IT guys.
Or they want $500k in performance, scalability, and redundancy, but only want to spend $50k to do it.
But!! What they want is to NOT spend any money on it. No, we don't need in-house IT, nor do we need a full time DBA! We are a start up and WE CAN DO IT, with one lady who lives in another state & works part time, one guy who works full time somewhere else and comes in for a few hours a week, one young guy who likes programming on the side and...people like me, who SUCK at programming but are DESPERATE to find ways to pull the data that doesn't involve hours of cutting and pasting, or querying 3 different databases.
/rant
Hey, I don't remember writing this? and this isn't my username? But, this was my life!
Funny how companies want to get everything cheap, but want to charges their customers a premium...
I'm sorry that you feel my pain...the pain of the last 8 years...No no no, what managers REALLY want is this great reporting system that links all the databases that we have. So we can pull, analyze, and report data efficiently!And we IT guys blame managers who requested the overly complex system (or forced us to make a well-working, simple system much more complex) because they absolutely needed some useless reporting function. With colors. And interactive. And "can you put it on a website so I can check it from my phone"?Update on my FU story. As a reminder, this is the person that got effed over by a bean counter for not perfectly following a ridiculously complex accounting system.
I chatted with him a bit back and he is currently enrolled in the local community college to learn a foreign language. His plan is to slow travel this country next spring / summer.
Ahhh....having the money to tell bean counters where to shove it.
On behalf of all Bean Counters I can tell you we have just as much trouble with complex accounting systems as the rest of you lot.
We blame the IT guys.
Or they want $500k in performance, scalability, and redundancy, but only want to spend $50k to do it.
But!! What they want is to NOT spend any money on it. No, we don't need in-house IT, nor do we need a full time DBA! We are a start up and WE CAN DO IT, with one lady who lives in another state & works part time, one guy who works full time somewhere else and comes in for a few hours a week, one young guy who likes programming on the side and...people like me, who SUCK at programming but are DESPERATE to find ways to pull the data that doesn't involve hours of cutting and pasting, or querying 3 different databases.
/rant
Hey, I don't remember writing this? and this isn't my username? But, this was my life!
Funny how companies want to get everything cheap, but want to charges their customers a premium...
These petty men (and women), with their little fiefdoms.... these can't possible be happy individuals, can they?
No no no, what managers REALLY want is this great reporting system that links all the databases that we have. So we can pull, analyze, and report data efficiently!And we IT guys blame managers who requested the overly complex system (or forced us to make a well-working, simple system much more complex) because they absolutely needed some useless reporting function. With colors. And interactive. And "can you put it on a website so I can check it from my phone"?Update on my FU story. As a reminder, this is the person that got effed over by a bean counter for not perfectly following a ridiculously complex accounting system.
I chatted with him a bit back and he is currently enrolled in the local community college to learn a foreign language. His plan is to slow travel this country next spring / summer.
Ahhh....having the money to tell bean counters where to shove it.
On behalf of all Bean Counters I can tell you we have just as much trouble with complex accounting systems as the rest of you lot.
We blame the IT guys.
Or they want $500k in performance, scalability, and redundancy, but only want to spend $50k to do it.
But!! What they want is to NOT spend any money on it. No, we don't need in-house IT, nor do we need a full time DBA! We are a start up and WE CAN DO IT, with one lady who lives in another state & works part time, one guy who works full time somewhere else and comes in for a few hours a week, one young guy who likes programming on the side and...people like me, who SUCK at programming but are DESPERATE to find ways to pull the data that doesn't involve hours of cutting and pasting, or querying 3 different databases.
/rant
Or people like me, who find ways to run Excel files built on vlookup and formulas to extract data out of the incompatible extracts of 3 different databases. And then the bosses wonder why they can't do it... 'cause you didn't spend a few days building the 'master' Excel file that bridges the gap between your stupid system, and like hell am I letting you mess with it, that's why.
*grump*
Oh, turns out getting the data we actually need out of the system? Less than 5K programming. How long has this been pending? A year. How much of my time (and salary) has been spent figuring work-arounds to the same information? Significanly more.
Hey Jexy,
No need to go force something just to have an epic contribution to this thread!
TW
<Image removed>
I hadn't seen that one, but this one is on the wall of one of my PMs cubes:
I hadn't seen that one, but this one is on the wall of one of my PMs cubes:
dogboyslim, I love that! I'm totally going to pass that around with my colleagues.
I hadn't seen that one, but this one is on the wall of one of my PMs cubes:
I just wish that they gave a class in High School about building a FU buffer to allow one to switch jobs/talk head high/not care about consequences, much faster than what I did.
I just wish that they gave a class in High School about building a FU buffer to allow one to switch jobs/talk head high/not care about consequences, much faster than what I did.
THIS.
Has anyone volunteered time to discuss FU / FIRE to their local high school before? I'm thinking it would just take the support of the current economics teacher and their principal. It is something I'm strongly considering since it would have helped me greatly coming out of HS and into college...
(We can start a new thread if need be).
What do you mean...FU stands for 'Forget You'....
haha, agreed. 'FU' would never fly in any school.
What do you mean...FU stands for 'Forget You'....
haha, agreed. 'FU' would never fly in any school.
Financially Unconstrained. ;)
This is on my post-FIRE list. I would love to volunteer to give kids a head start. It doesn't have to be as complicated as we get here on this forum but anything that gets their minds thinking about those types of decisions early will change their lives if they run with it. It's probably one of the most broadly impactful things kids could learn.I just wish that they gave a class in High School about building a FU buffer to allow one to switch jobs/talk head high/not care about consequences, much faster than what I did.
THIS.
Has anyone volunteered time to discuss FU / FIRE to their local high school before? I'm thinking it would just take the support of the current economics teacher and their principal. It is something I'm strongly considering since it would have helped me greatly coming out of HS and into college...
(We can start a new thread if need be).
Not really a FU tale more of a FTS (funk this shunt):
In France I had two successive jobs in not doing so well companies as an industrial designer where I took a fairly low pay with the promise of large increases based on earnings.
As an aside, the industrial design world is littered with people who get the degree, a black turtleneck and think they are artists. This muddles the field for people who like the graft not the pedantic tittle.
For me, design is being an interface between client, marketing, management, suppliers, manufacturing and reality: 70% whacking your head against the desk to make opposites a whole, 25% cad work to mash thing sufficiently fine so engineers can digest it and 5% creation (not art).
In any case, 1st company I help bring back from the dead, not only create great stuff for one off's but do it so they can be rented out indifinetly after = big income boost!
So after 3 years what about, my raise boss? No can do no money. But boss proceeds to buy a new car, go on exotic holidays, new big house AND a new building in the middle of naught that has a somewhat dangerous 1 hour plus commute - and if I do any overtime, I miss the last train leaving me no option but sleeping under my desk. I resign after 4 months, one hour before a performance review. They never managed to replace me, had to sell the new building and are more or less to back to how they were when I started. In any case, it was painful due to no FU fund.
Shortly got a new job in a great little company that needed help. I managed to reform the drafting methods, because a de facto commercial architect because they never managed to hire one who was competent. In any case, after 5 great years, no salary increase, same excuses, but bosses had nice houses, nice cars, Patek watches but my pay was two low to get on the housing ladder.
So I met this great Flemish lass, slowly disengaged myself because I had FU starter fund and moved to Belgium.
After struggling, found a job in a impressive local firm... and saw after a few moths that they were trying to pull the same MBA playbook trick on me, but I stayed on until I could find a way out while my DW was pregnant. Finally, burnt out of industrial design, mostly when I understood that all my staff was earning way more than me for less stress and way shorter hours. So l resigned and gave them a very long debrief on how they were massively mismanaging ressources out of arrogance about production - surprisingly, this got into their thick heads, the GM was ousted and the most urgent of my production improvements implemented. In any case, leaving was much easier because I had a 10 month FU cushion.
But I had had it with industrial design, sadly said an internal FU to the whole industry, and went back to Uni to become a Unlimited Machine Room officer.
Took four years to do three, so it was hard financially, finished with the "best of promotion" and "best final project" gongs, got a 1st job in salvage then got hired for a sailing position and am earning about 1.7x my last industrial design job doing something fun (yes, flanges are fun). :)
I just wish that they gave a class in High School about building a FU buffer to allow one to switch jobs/talk head high/not care about consequences, much faster than what I did.
This is on my post-FIRE list. I would love to volunteer to give kids a head start. It doesn't have to be as complicated as we get here on this forum but anything that gets their minds thinking about those types of decisions early will change their lives if they run with it. It's probably one of the most broadly impactful things kids could learn.I just wish that they gave a class in High School about building a FU buffer to allow one to switch jobs/talk head high/not care about consequences, much faster than what I did.
THIS.
Has anyone volunteered time to discuss FU / FIRE to their local high school before? I'm thinking it would just take the support of the current economics teacher and their principal. It is something I'm strongly considering since it would have helped me greatly coming out of HS and into college...
(We can start a new thread if need be).
What do you mean...FU stands for 'Forget You'....
haha, agreed. 'FU' would never fly in any school.
Financially Unconstrained. ;)
Glad I asked for advice! ;D
Maybe re-label some things, but at least rolling through the "shockingly Simple Math" with them might set some on the right track. Good opportunity to discuss why the stock market always goes up and whatnot.
What do you mean...FU stands for 'Forget You'....
haha, agreed. 'FU' would never fly in any school.
Financially Unconstrained. ;)
Glad I asked for advice! ;D
Maybe re-label some things, but at least rolling through the "shockingly Simple Math" with them might set some on the right track. Good opportunity to discuss why the stock market always goes up and whatnot.
I used "shockingly simple math" with college freshmen this fall, and they noticed and giggled over the word "badassity" in the header image. Just FYI.
Yup, you are right, good at negotiating for companies, crap at doing it for me.I just wish that they gave a class in High School about building a FU buffer to allow one to switch jobs/talk head high/not care about consequences, much faster than what I did.
I am sorry you went through what appears to be the same issue three times. While I'm glad it all worked out well in the end, you should also look at what you could have done better and what you could learn.
Learn how to negotiate better!
Your bosses with the Pateks clearly outmaneuvered you when it came to negotiating. While we all would love to think that we will be rewarded fairly for our efforts, the truth of the matter is that you are only worth what you can negotiate for yourself. If you want to be rewarded based upon your impact to the company, then go on commission. If you want a nice, safe salary, then realize that when there is little risk, the reward is not as great.
Glad things worked out for you in the end.
What do you mean...FU stands for 'Forget You'....
haha, agreed. 'FU' would never fly in any school.
Financially Unconstrained. ;)
Glad I asked for advice! ;D
Maybe re-label some things, but at least rolling through the "shockingly Simple Math" with them might set some on the right track. Good opportunity to discuss why the stock market always goes up and whatnot.
I used "shockingly simple math" with college freshmen this fall, and they noticed and giggled over the word "badassity" in the header image. Just FYI.
The perfect intro to explaining FU money, how Pete was told he had to remove that to keep the 30k/yr ads from Chase, and he told them to jump in a lake. Not needing to have your decisions driven by money is the definition of FU money.
Or you just do it and don't ask. ;)
I just wish that they gave a class in High School about building a FU buffer to allow one to switch jobs/talk head high/not care about consequences, much faster than what I did.
THIS.
Has anyone volunteered time to discuss FU / FIRE to their local high school before? I'm thinking it would just take the support of the current economics teacher and their principal. It is something I'm strongly considering since it would have helped me greatly coming out of HS and into college...
(We can start a new thread if need be).
I just wish that they gave a class in High School about building a FU buffer to allow one to switch jobs/talk head high/not care about consequences, much faster than what I did.
THIS.
Has anyone volunteered time to discuss FU / FIRE to their local high school before? I'm thinking it would just take the support of the current economics teacher and their principal. It is something I'm strongly considering since it would have helped me greatly coming out of HS and into college...
(We can start a new thread if need be).
My daughter had a class where they had to create a budget. It is a good start, but there were some things she pointed out to me that SHE thought were weird. For example, you were FORCED to budget for a phone and home internet. You were not allowed to get a roommate to cut home expenses in half. Better than nothing I guess.
My daughter had a class where they had to create a budget. It is a good start, but there were some things she pointed out to me that SHE thought were weird. For example, you were FORCED to budget for a phone and home internet. You were not allowed to get a roommate to cut home expenses in half. Better than nothing I guess.
My daughter had a class where they had to create a budget. It is a good start, but there were some things she pointed out to me that SHE thought were weird. For example, you were FORCED to budget for a phone and home internet. You were not allowed to get a roommate to cut home expenses in half. Better than nothing I guess.
I had to do that in middle school! I don't think they required home internet, because it was actually somewhat uncommon and expensive in rural areas at that time, but there were other weird "Must-haves", including having a car.
I think my constant stream of Mustachian philosophy must have impacted my mom, who teaches elementary school, because when she taught that section recently she let the kids do whatever they wanted, and some of it turned out pretty funny. I think one kid who was a supreme court judge got fired, and another kid who owned a hair salon hired him to sweep up hair for minimum wage. I think there were a few weddings and roommate situations. It's amazing what kind of stuff kids come up.
My daughter had a class where they had to create a budget. It is a good start, but there were some things she pointed out to me that SHE thought were weird. For example, you were FORCED to budget for a phone and home internet. You were not allowed to get a roommate to cut home expenses in half. Better than nothing I guess.
I had to do that in middle school! I don't think they required home internet, because it was actually somewhat uncommon and expensive in rural areas at that time, but there were other weird "Must-haves", including having a car.
I think my constant stream of Mustachian philosophy must have impacted my mom, who teaches elementary school, because when she taught that section recently she let the kids do whatever they wanted, and some of it turned out pretty funny. I think one kid who was a supreme court judge got fired, and another kid who owned a hair salon hired him to sweep up hair for minimum wage. I think there were a few weddings and roommate situations. It's amazing what kind of stuff kids come up.
"Home Internet" didn't really exist yet when I did mine.
Mine isn't all that epic, but I still like it.
I was at my most financially destitute; I had just under three years of college left, and after paying tuition I just had enough for rent and $12/week of groceries.
We got a new boss at work who liked to yell at and demoralize people. It made what had been a fun college job a nightmare, but I depended on the paycheck and the health insurance. At one point, I got transferred to the food section. On my first day as "manager" there (I hadn't had any training yet), we sold out of most of the food before closing. The boss came by and screamed at me for not ordering enough food (how could I have ordered the food the day before it was my job to do so?). She continued screaming in my face until I cried, and then she yelled at me for crying.
I went to school the next day and asked one of my professors if I could get a job tutoring. He hired me on the spot. I went by the student health center and got health insurance, then I went to work that afternoon and quit. My boss's response, "You aren't even going to give me the courtesy of two weeks' notice?" I said no and held my tongue instead of saying exactly why I was quitting.
My tutoring gig didn't pay much, but it gave me incredible experience and connections that directly led to the career I love now. I also was randomly offered a second job at just the right time. I was a janitor in a theater, but it meant I could see all the musicals I wanted for free, and since a lot of my responsibilities included laundry and my boss couldn't think of anything else for me to do during that time since the bathrooms were already clean and I couldn't clean the house until the audience left, I had built in study time.
At the time I quit, I knew there was a real possibility that I'd be living in my car and using the campus gym for showers, and that was such a better option than dealing with my evil boss one more day, that it didn't scare me. That fleeting fearlessness led to some of the best experiences of my life.
Mine isn't all that epic, but I still like it.
I was at my most financially destitute; I had just under three years of college left, and after paying tuition I just had enough for rent and $12/week of groceries.
We got a new boss at work who liked to yell at and demoralize people. It made what had been a fun college job a nightmare, but I depended on the paycheck and the health insurance. At one point, I got transferred to the food section. On my first day as "manager" there (I hadn't had any training yet), we sold out of most of the food before closing. The boss came by and screamed at me for not ordering enough food (how could I have ordered the food the day before it was my job to do so?). She continued screaming in my face until I cried, and then she yelled at me for crying.
I went to school the next day and asked one of my professors if I could get a job tutoring. He hired me on the spot. I went by the student health center and got health insurance, then I went to work that afternoon and quit. My boss's response, "You aren't even going to give me the courtesy of two weeks' notice?" I said no and held my tongue instead of saying exactly why I was quitting.
My tutoring gig didn't pay much, but it gave me incredible experience and connections that directly led to the career I love now. I also was randomly offered a second job at just the right time. I was a janitor in a theater, but it meant I could see all the musicals I wanted for free, and since a lot of my responsibilities included laundry and my boss couldn't think of anything else for me to do during that time since the bathrooms were already clean and I couldn't clean the house until the audience left, I had built in study time.
At the time I quit, I knew there was a real possibility that I'd be living in my car and using the campus gym for showers, and that was such a better option than dealing with my evil boss one more day, that it didn't scare me. That fleeting fearlessness led to some of the best experiences of my life.
Mezzie, that is seriously Epic! To leave without a stache to carry you over is so brave...
Ok, not remotely epic, but gotta keep this thread live, because it entertained me my entire Christmas break. My story happened in the tech crash, before I felt like I really had FU money. But we had dual incomes and low expenses relative to our salaries.Sounds VERY epic to me. Thank you for sharing.
DH took an insecure job to move near me when we married; it was sad but not a huge shock when that company went under. His company offered to transfer him out west, and I found a job with a company there (I'm a lawyer - 30%+ paycut sucked, but jobs were scarce and I was glad to find one). Alas, the job was pure hell. The big boss was a fan of the "swoop and poop" management style -- she'd swoop in, yell at you that any idiot would know to do ABC, disappear for a month, then swoop back in for a status check and yell at you for doing ABC, because any idiot would know to do XYZ. Management knew they were losing good people, but the CEO refused to fire her because he trusted her.
It all came to a head when I had a miscarriage and subsequent D&C and missed a week. During that week, one of my matters that had been dormant for months suddenly came back to life. My first day back in the office, she called a meeting of everyone in the department and parceled out all of my work, without ever looking at or saying a word to me (who knew ghosting was a management style in 1999??). I went back to my office, bawled, pulled myself together, and went back to ask her why she removed me from the project. She fed me a line about being concerned about my health and not wanting to burden me at a tough time. Right. 6 months later when I asked for a raise/promotion (the supervisor I had been hired to assist quit two weeks after I arrived, and I had done her job for well over a year), I was turned down, because I had "really fallen down on that project."
Meanwhile, we had built our house, planning to stay there forever. So I went home, again in tears, and pulled out Quicken and worked the budget until I realized that I could quit and we wouldn't lose the house. And the weight lifted: all the crap didn't matter any more, because I didn't NEED that job. So I started making plans to give my notice.
Then they announced that the company was being bought, and the severance package was awesome (on the order of 9-10 mos. salary even for me). So I said, well, hell, I can manage a few more months of this for that kind of cash. So I hung on for 9 more months. And damned if the big boss didn't then come meet with me and say "congratulations -- I managed to save your job!" WTF? You treat me like shit for 2.5 years, and NOW you start looking out for me? I quit the next day and went back to telecommuting to my old firm. Worked well less than half time (had a baby that year), still made 3/4 of what I did at the hell job.
And demonstrating the power of karma: said evil boss was herself the one who got fired as part of the transition, and the woman who came in and took her place tried very hard to convince me to stay. I turned her down, politely -- and a few years later we moved back east, and I am now a partner at the same firm I went back to, making probably 4-5x what I made at the hell job. And the lady I politely turned down is a periodic firm client.
But my DH has my favorite line. Now, I should say that he is happy in his current job and has zero intention of quitting (maybe ever). But one day, about 2-3 years after he started, his boss was giving him a hard time about not having any decorations or personal stuff in his office. And his buddy spoke up and said "his wife's a partner in a law firm, he can be gone in an hour if he gets too pissed off." And DH just smiled and said, "I may need A job, but I don't need THIS job." Needless to say, he has felt free to take time off as needed for kid duty (as have I). Makes two full-time jobs and two kids much more livable on a daily basis.
FU money is awesome. And cash in the bank isn't the only way to get it -- while you're still building the 'stache, a happily-employed spouse + living on one income goes a long, long way.
But my DH has my favorite line. Now, I should say that he is happy in his current job and has zero intention of quitting (maybe ever). But one day, about 2-3 years after he started, his boss was giving him a hard time about not having any decorations or personal stuff in his office. And his buddy spoke up and said "his wife's a partner in a law firm, he can be gone in an hour if he gets too pissed off. "And DH just smiled and said, "I may need A job, but I don't need THIS job." Needless to say, he has felt free to take time off as needed for kid duty (as have I). Makes two full-time jobs and two kids much more livable on a daily basis.
FU money is awesome. And cash in the bank isn't the only way to get it -- while you're still building the 'stache, a happily-employed spouse + living on one income goes a long, long way.
Ok, not remotely epic, but gotta keep this thread live, because it entertained me my entire Christmas break. My story happened in the tech crash, before I felt like I really had FU money. But we had dual incomes and low expenses relative to our salaries.Very very epic.
DH took an insecure job to move near me when we married; it was sad but not a huge shock when that company went under. His company offered to transfer him out west, and I found a job with a company there (I'm a lawyer - 30%+ paycut sucked, but jobs were scarce and I was glad to find one). Alas, the job was pure hell. The big boss was a fan of the "swoop and poop" management style -- she'd swoop in, yell at you that any idiot would know to do ABC, disappear for a month, then swoop back in for a status check and yell at you for doing ABC, because any idiot would know to do XYZ. Management knew they were losing good people, but the CEO refused to fire her because he trusted her.
It all came to a head when I had a miscarriage and subsequent D&C and missed a week. During that week, one of my matters that had been dormant for months suddenly came back to life. My first day back in the office, she called a meeting of everyone in the department and parceled out all of my work, without ever looking at or saying a word to me (who knew ghosting was a management style in 1999??). I went back to my office, bawled, pulled myself together, and went back to ask her why she removed me from the project. She fed me a line about being concerned about my health and not wanting to burden me at a tough time. Right. 6 months later when I asked for a raise/promotion (the supervisor I had been hired to assist quit two weeks after I arrived, and I had done her job for well over a year), I was turned down, because I had "really fallen down on that project."
Meanwhile, we had built our house, planning to stay there forever. So I went home, again in tears, and pulled out Quicken and worked the budget until I realized that I could quit and we wouldn't lose the house. And the weight lifted: all the crap didn't matter any more, because I didn't NEED that job. So I started making plans to give my notice.
Then they announced that the company was being bought, and the severance package was awesome (on the order of 9-10 mos. salary even for me). So I said, well, hell, I can manage a few more months of this for that kind of cash. So I hung on for 9 more months. And damned if the big boss didn't then come meet with me and say "congratulations -- I managed to save your job!" WTF? You treat me like shit for 2.5 years, and NOW you start looking out for me? I quit the next day and went back to telecommuting to my old firm. Worked well less than half time (had a baby that year), still made 3/4 of what I did at the hell job.
And demonstrating the power of karma: said evil boss was herself the one who got fired as part of the transition, and the woman who came in and took her place tried very hard to convince me to stay. I turned her down, politely -- and a few years later we moved back east, and I am now a partner at the same firm I went back to, making probably 4-5x what I made at the hell job. And the lady I politely turned down is a periodic firm client.
But my DH has my favorite line. Now, I should say that he is happy in his current job and has zero intention of quitting (maybe ever). But one day, about 2-3 years after he started, his boss was giving him a hard time about not having any decorations or personal stuff in his office. And his buddy spoke up and said "his wife's a partner in a law firm, he can be gone in an hour if he gets too pissed off." And DH just smiled and said, "I may need A job, but I don't need THIS job." Needless to say, he has felt free to take time off as needed for kid duty (as have I). Makes two full-time jobs and two kids much more livable on a daily basis.
FU money is awesome. And cash in the bank isn't the only way to get it -- while you're still building the 'stache, a happily-employed spouse + living on one income goes a long, long way.
And DH just smiled and said, "I may need A job, but I don't need THIS job." Needless to say, he has felt free to take time off as needed for kid duty (as have I). Makes two full-time jobs and two kids much more livable on a daily basis.
My wife works for a major company (you probably have multiple items in your home produced by this company) who have recently announced that they are delaying the timing of their paychecks this march.
Basically, they will be holding all their employees' money for an additional week. I've located some other funds equivalent to one week's pay for my wife and set it aside--ready to go--but I feel for all her co-workers who do not have that kind of flexibility.
Heard a very different definition of FU money yesterday.
I watched a documentary called sour grapes, which does a good job of following a wine scam ($1,000's per bottle, millions of dollars kind of wine). In it, FU money was described as the chunk of money dedicated to spending on nothing, just for the sake of spending.
I have always considered it the money you are willing to spend(savings) to avoid having to do what others want you to do.
I think she really missed the point. It is not the money, it is the freedom that the money provides.
Hmmm, i agree with your perspective, homestead neohio. I was kind of puzzled by TT's need to "locate other funds" to cover a one week pay gap.My wife works for a major company (you probably have multiple items in your home produced by this company) who have recently announced that they are delaying the timing of their paychecks this march.
Basically, they will be holding all their employees' money for an additional week. I've located some other funds equivalent to one week's pay for my wife and set it aside--ready to go--but I feel for all her co-workers who do not have that kind of flexibility.
This is happening to me and my co-workers right now as a result of an acquisition. MegaCorp delays payment 1 week, Medium corp did not. It is RIDICULOUS how much people focus on this! I guess it really matters to them... I know many people spend everything they make, but with several weeks of advanced notice you'd think this would not be a hardship, especially when you found out months ago you are getting laid off this year! Show some spending restraint and have savings, people! They are not taking the money, just paying it a week later.
Hmmm, i agree with your perspective, homestead neohio. I was kind of puzzled by TT's need to "locate other funds" to cover a one week pay gap.My wife works for a major company (you probably have multiple items in your home produced by this company) who have recently announced that they are delaying the timing of their paychecks this march.
Basically, they will be holding all their employees' money for an additional week. I've located some other funds equivalent to one week's pay for my wife and set it aside--ready to go--but I feel for all her co-workers who do not have that kind of flexibility.
This is happening to me and my co-workers right now as a result of an acquisition. MegaCorp delays payment 1 week, Medium corp did not. It is RIDICULOUS how much people focus on this! I guess it really matters to them... I know many people spend everything they make, but with several weeks of advanced notice you'd think this would not be a hardship, especially when you found out months ago you are getting laid off this year! Show some spending restraint and have savings, people! They are not taking the money, just paying it a week later.
As I found out when my husband found out he was getting laid off during my 8th month of pregnancy.
Hmmm, i agree with your perspective, homestead neohio. I was kind of puzzled by TT's need to "locate other funds" to cover a one week pay gap.My wife works for a major company (you probably have multiple items in your home produced by this company) who have recently announced that they are delaying the timing of their paychecks this march.
Basically, they will be holding all their employees' money for an additional week. I've located some other funds equivalent to one week's pay for my wife and set it aside--ready to go--but I feel for all her co-workers who do not have that kind of flexibility.
This is happening to me and my co-workers right now as a result of an acquisition. MegaCorp delays payment 1 week, Medium corp did not. It is RIDICULOUS how much people focus on this! I guess it really matters to them... I know many people spend everything they make, but with several weeks of advanced notice you'd think this would not be a hardship, especially when you found out months ago you are getting laid off this year! Show some spending restraint and have savings, people! They are not taking the money, just paying it a week later.
Enh. I don't keep a paycheck's worth of buffer in my checking account, and I have automatic payments (mortgage, life insurance) that come out of it, so I'd have to 'locate other funds' out of either my savings account, or an investment account, to cover the payments due to come out.
It's not that we don't HAVE the money, it's that the money is in a different spot.
It's not that we don't HAVE the money, it's that the money is in a different spot.
It's not that we don't HAVE the money, it's that the money is in a different spot.
You see, the way that my bank account is set up... (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=see+the+way+my+bank+account+is+set+up&&view=detail&mid=550682DD65ECFB1615A2550682DD65ECFB1615A2&rvsmid=22FE3BF56E0CE33AC5AE22FE3BF56E0CE33AC5AE&fsscr=0&FORM=VDFSRV)
--- Kevin Hart routine.
My wife works for a major company (you probably have multiple items in your home produced by this company) who have recently announced that they are delaying the timing of their paychecks this march.
Basically, they will be holding all their employees' money for an additional week. I've located some other funds equivalent to one week's pay for my wife and set it aside--ready to go--but I feel for all her co-workers who do not have that kind of flexibility.
This is happening to me and my co-workers right now as a result of an acquisition. MegaCorp delays payment 1 week, Medium corp did not. It is RIDICULOUS how much people focus on this! I guess it really matters to them... I know many people spend everything they make, but with several weeks of advanced notice you'd think this would not be a hardship, especially when you found out months ago you are getting laid off this year! Show some spending restraint and have savings, people! They are not taking the money, just paying it a week later.
To all those people who can say FU (or otherwise push back so they don't get to that point) based on a partner's salary and low expenses, hooray!
To be fair I would complain. When my company went from monthly to biweekly they wanted to start the new system with a 2 week grace period, which means that work I do is delayed payment for 2 weeks. It was explained that over the course of our career it would balance since our last cheque would come out 2 weeks after we left and it would be the same. In the short term I would have less money to invest that year, effectively I would lose out on $50/year for every year I worked here.My wife works for a major company (you probably have multiple items in your home produced by this company) who have recently announced that they are delaying the timing of their paychecks this march.
Basically, they will be holding all their employees' money for an additional week. I've located some other funds equivalent to one week's pay for my wife and set it aside--ready to go--but I feel for all her co-workers who do not have that kind of flexibility.
This is happening to me and my co-workers right now as a result of an acquisition. MegaCorp delays payment 1 week, Medium corp did not. It is RIDICULOUS how much people focus on this! I guess it really matters to them... I know many people spend everything they make, but with several weeks of advanced notice you'd think this would not be a hardship, especially when you found out months ago you are getting laid off this year! Show some spending restraint and have savings, people! They are not taking the money, just paying it a week later.
To all those people who can say FU (or otherwise push back so they don't get to that point) based on a partner's salary and low expenses, hooray!
This sort of happened at my work last year, except they let everyone know 6-9 MONTHS in advance. Basically many sites were all on different pay schedules, and they were streamlining everything to be on the same schedule to make payroll's job easier. And provided multiple presentations, emails, and handouts outlining how the transition would work. Also provided forms to let people arrange in advance to have overtime or vacation hours paid out so that the one cheque wouldn't look smaller than what they were used to, due to having 6 shifts in it instead of 10 or whatever (voluntary). And they arranged to have it be the 3rd paycheque in one of the 2 '3 paycheque' months of the year (payed biweekly). And they arranged a payroll advance for people to sign up for if they needed that could be payed back over time. I literally can't think of anything else they could have done to make it easier on people...but...
there was still sooo much whining, a rather large number of people convinced they weren't going to be paid for some shifts, people convince that this was completely unfair and impossible.
It was a relief to have some time off during the transition, just so I didn't have to hear about it so much
...
Its a tried and true MegaCorp windfall, delay pay for a week and gain access to a million dollars ($1000/employee and 1000 employees) that technically should be put aside but can earn interest at 5%. When dealing with invoices its standard practice of Megacorps to pay late, they gain interest off several million dollars that way, its a simple trick that can pay an accountants salary.
And DH just smiled and said, "I may need A job, but I don't need THIS job." Needless to say, he has felt free to take time off as needed for kid duty (as have I). Makes two full-time jobs and two kids much more livable on a daily basis.
I've said something similar, without FU money.
If you have a standard of living that can be met on 1(ish) salary, and no debt, even no FU money means that your spouse's job is all the safety net you need (and their safety net is your job - it goes both ways). You (collective) need ONE OF you to have a job. Neither of you need THESE PARTICULAR jobs.
As I found out when my husband found out he was getting laid off during my 8th month of pregnancy. We JUST paid off all debt. We have a paid-off car and a VERY affordable mortgage in a place we love living. Maternity leave payments for me + unemployment for him = still 1K going into savings every month. We're FINE.
Meanwhile, his colleagues were freaking out for him and seemed to think that we were going to starve or lose the house. Like... no. He'll take a few months off with the babies, and then get another job, and we'll be FINE.
And DH just smiled and said, "I may need A job, but I don't need THIS job." Needless to say, he has felt free to take time off as needed for kid duty (as have I). Makes two full-time jobs and two kids much more livable on a daily basis.
I've said something similar, without FU money.
If you have a standard of living that can be met on 1(ish) salary, and no debt, even no FU money means that your spouse's job is all the safety net you need (and their safety net is your job - it goes both ways). You (collective) need ONE OF you to have a job. Neither of you need THESE PARTICULAR jobs.
As I found out when my husband found out he was getting laid off during my 8th month of pregnancy. We JUST paid off all debt. We have a paid-off car and a VERY affordable mortgage in a place we love living. Maternity leave payments for me + unemployment for him = still 1K going into savings every month. We're FINE.
Meanwhile, his colleagues were freaking out for him and seemed to think that we were going to starve or lose the house. Like... no. He'll take a few months off with the babies, and then get another job, and we'll be FINE.
I never considered this an FU story but maybe it is.
My husband quit his job when I was 9 months pregnant to start working in real estate. I don't remember the exact details but his already messed up schedule was going to be even more messed up, he has some health issues that wasn't working well with his job, plus the plan was always for him to cut back if needed/wanted once kids came around. We had an emergency fund, I had a higher paying job that provided our benefits, and I had 0 desire to stay at home. Nobody could believe he would quit his job with a 9 month pregnant wife. We both got really tired of hear people make a comment of "I can't believe you quit when you are about to have a new baby at home." He got tired of hearing it because we had FU abilities, I got tired of hearing it because nobody says that shit to a woman that quits when she is 9 months pregnant.
My husband quit his job when I was 9 months pregnant to start working in real estate. I don't remember the exact details but his already messed up schedule was going to be even more messed up, he has some health issues that wasn't working well with his job, plus the plan was always for him to cut back if needed/wanted once kids came around. We had an emergency fund, I had a higher paying job that provided our benefits, and I had 0 desire to stay at home. Nobody could believe he would quit his job with a 9 month pregnant wife. We both got really tired of hear people make a comment of "I can't believe you quit when you are about to have a new baby at home." He got tired of hearing it because we had FU abilities, I got tired of hearing it because nobody says that shit to a woman that quits when she is 9 months pregnant.
I almost just had one 40 minutes ago, but instead, bit my tongue, left the meeting as if nothing unusual had happened, got in my car and started whimpering like a baby. I wondered why I was crying and really it's not because I give one shit about any of the people in that meeting. It's because I wanted to get up and quit but I am not close enough to FIRE to quit. I have plenty of FU money, but at the rate I'm saving at this job, I could FIRE so much faster by staying here and continuing to eat their shit sandwiches. So I ate their shit. Again.
This is the opposite of an FU money story, but I just had to get it out.
I almost just had one 40 minutes ago, but instead, bit my tongue, left the meeting as if nothing unusual had happened, got in my car and started whimpering like a baby. I wondered why I was crying and really it's not because I give one shit about any of the people in that meeting. It's because I wanted to get up and quit but I am not close enough to FIRE to quit. I have plenty of FU money, but at the rate I'm saving at this job, I could FIRE so much faster by staying here and continuing to eat their shit sandwiches. So I ate their shit. Again.
This is the opposite of an FU money story, but I just had to get it out.
I'm sorry you had a bad day. On the plus side, you have a strategy, and you are sticking to it through your own strength. So kudos to you for that!
An ironic golden handcuff story--ironic in the sense that the ONLY reason you're in them is to get to FIRE faster.
We ALL eat shit sandwiches on a regular basis. This is life in general. We have to make compromises to get what we want out of life. Your compromise is to stay working to achieve FIRE sooner at your desired spending rate.
I'm not minimizing your tough meeting at all. What I'm trying to say is, stay focused on your goals and this realization of WHY you tolerating bullshit allows you to "bear down" when you need to on those tough days.
I almost just had one 40 minutes ago, but instead, bit my tongue, left the meeting as if nothing unusual had happened, got in my car and started whimpering like a baby. I wondered why I was crying and really it's not because I give one shit about any of the people in that meeting. It's because I wanted to get up and quit but I am not close enough to FIRE to quit. I have plenty of FU money, but at the rate I'm saving at this job, I could FIRE so much faster by staying here and continuing to eat their shit sandwiches. So I ate their shit. Again.
This is the opposite of an FU money story, but I just had to get it out.
I almost just had one 40 minutes ago, but instead, bit my tongue, left the meeting as if nothing unusual had happened, got in my car and started whimpering like a baby. I wondered why I was crying and really it's not because I give one shit about any of the people in that meeting. It's because I wanted to get up and quit but I am not close enough to FIRE to quit. I have plenty of FU money, but at the rate I'm saving at this job, I could FIRE so much faster by staying here and continuing to eat their shit sandwiches. So I ate their shit. Again.
This is the opposite of an FU money story, but I just had to get it out.
I almost just had one 40 minutes ago, but instead, bit my tongue, left the meeting as if nothing unusual had happened, got in my car and started whimpering like a baby. I wondered why I was crying and really it's not because I give one shit about any of the people in that meeting. It's because I wanted to get up and quit but I am not close enough to FIRE to quit. I have plenty of FU money, but at the rate I'm saving at this job, I could FIRE so much faster by staying here and continuing to eat their shit sandwiches. So I ate their shit. Again.
This is the opposite of an FU money story, but I just had to get it out.
I disagree. This *IS* an FU story in that you know you are only temporarily eating a shit sandwich. You can observe the craziness around you and just laugh to yourself that you won't have to tolerate this much longer. You have a means to an end.
Think that if you didn't have FU money you would really hate HAVING to eat shit sanwiches for most of you life.
Let the shit slide like water off a duck's back. You are almost free!
I disagree. This *IS* an FU story in that you know you are only temporarily eating a shit sandwich. You can observe the craziness around you and just laugh to yourself that you won't have to tolerate this much longer. You have a means to an end.
Think that if you didn't have FU money you would really hate HAVING to eat shit sanwiches for most of you life.
Let the shit slide like water off a duck's back. You are almost free!
This is actually a really good point.
I dislike having to go to work, and a lot of the time I'm actually really disappointed that I have to do it for several more years. But then I think 7 or 8 years is SO much better than 25-30. I honestly don't know how people do it.
Holy shit, Hettie. That is some serious and sad stuff. Glad you were there to do the right thing.Indeed. Thanks for doing the right thing, Hettie!
Holy shit, Hettie. That is some serious and sad stuff. Glad you were there to do the right thing.Indeed. Thanks for doing the right thing, Hettie!
Hettie, I have been looking at assisted living facilities for my mom recently. Your story is one of the reasons we chose that route, rather than adult family homes. My state regulates things fairly well, but if none of the patients or caregivers can speak for themselves, it is scary how things can spin out of control. On behalf of the medically vulnerable and their family and friends, thank you for taking a stand.
Holy effing hell, Hettie. I am glad there are people like you in this world.Amen to that!
It's great when FU money saves you, but so much better when it saves someone else!
It's great when FU money saves you, but so much better when it saves someone else!
It's great when FU money saves you, but so much better when it saves someone else!YES
+1Holy shit, Hettie. That is some serious and sad stuff. Glad you were there to do the right thing.Indeed. Thanks for doing the right thing, Hettie!
Bluehouse, hang in there. In my previous job (some years ago, before I learned the ways of the mustache), my wife happened to download mint right about the time things started getting really horrible. I was shocked when she showed me that our net worth was $400,000. I couldn't imagine that kind of money at the time, it seemed so far removed from any reality. It's not enough for us to retire, but I realized how silly I was worrying about one job when we had accumulated that kind of stash seemingly by accident.And that kind of peace of mind is priceless.
after spending some time reading through this thread I think I should toss a few in:
1) The first time I realized the power of being flexible and financially secure was about a year after starting my first real engineering gig at company "A"... I had a bachelors degree at the time and was on hiatus from an integrated masters program that I had to finish within 2 years of finishing my bachelors (basically you tag on a year of graduate classes to the end of an intense bachelors for a masters degree). I went to my manager and asked if I could have a leave of absence approved to go back to school. My manager at the time (a nice guy actually, but under pressure to get products shipped) thought it would be very unlikely that I could get one approved and discouraged it.... until of course about 2 minutes later when he did a 180 when I suggested that if it wasn't possible I'd need to get the paperwork together for quitting because I had to go back to finish my masters. educational leave approved :)
also least confusingafter spending some time reading through this thread I think I should toss a few in:
1) The first time I realized the power of being flexible and financially secure was about a year after starting my first real engineering gig at company "A"... I had a bachelors degree at the time and was on hiatus from an integrated masters program that I had to finish within 2 years of finishing my bachelors (basically you tag on a year of graduate classes to the end of an intense bachelors for a masters degree). I went to my manager and asked if I could have a leave of absence approved to go back to school. My manager at the time (a nice guy actually, but under pressure to get products shipped) thought it would be very unlikely that I could get one approved and discouraged it.... until of course about 2 minutes later when he did a 180 when I suggested that if it wasn't possible I'd need to get the paperwork together for quitting because I had to go back to finish my masters. educational leave approved :)
This ones my favorite, so I summarized it for you:
Manager: "I have control over your future."
You: "No you don't."
Manager: "Dammit, please still work for us."
after spending some time reading through this thread I think I should toss a few in:
1) The first time I realized the power of being flexible and financially secure was about a year after starting my first real engineering gig at company "A"... I had a bachelors degree at the time and was on hiatus from an integrated masters program that I had to finish within 2 years of finishing my bachelors (basically you tag on a year of graduate classes to the end of an intense bachelors for a masters degree). I went to my manager and asked if I could have a leave of absence approved to go back to school. My manager at the time (a nice guy actually, but under pressure to get products shipped) thought it would be very unlikely that I could get one approved and discouraged it.... until of course about 2 minutes later when he did a 180 when I suggested that if it wasn't possible I'd need to get the paperwork together for quitting because I had to go back to finish my masters. educational leave approved :)
This ones my favorite, so I summarized it for you:
Manager: "I have control over your future."
You: "No you don't."
Manager: "Dammit, please still work for us."
also least confusingafter spending some time reading through this thread I think I should toss a few in:
1) The first time I realized the power of being flexible and financially secure was about a year after starting my first real engineering gig at company "A"... I had a bachelors degree at the time and was on hiatus from an integrated masters program that I had to finish within 2 years of finishing my bachelors (basically you tag on a year of graduate classes to the end of an intense bachelors for a masters degree). I went to my manager and asked if I could have a leave of absence approved to go back to school. My manager at the time (a nice guy actually, but under pressure to get products shipped) thought it would be very unlikely that I could get one approved and discouraged it.... until of course about 2 minutes later when he did a 180 when I suggested that if it wasn't possible I'd need to get the paperwork together for quitting because I had to go back to finish my masters. educational leave approved :)
This ones my favorite, so I summarized it for you:
Manager: "I have control over your future."
You: "No you don't."
Manager: "Dammit, please still work for us."
Nice. Would even fit in a Dilbert panel.after spending some time reading through this thread I think I should toss a few in:
1) The first time I realized the power of being flexible and financially secure was about a year after starting my first real engineering gig at company "A"... I had a bachelors degree at the time and was on hiatus from an integrated masters program that I had to finish within 2 years of finishing my bachelors (basically you tag on a year of graduate classes to the end of an intense bachelors for a masters degree). I went to my manager and asked if I could have a leave of absence approved to go back to school. My manager at the time (a nice guy actually, but under pressure to get products shipped) thought it would be very unlikely that I could get one approved and discouraged it.... until of course about 2 minutes later when he did a 180 when I suggested that if it wasn't possible I'd need to get the paperwork together for quitting because I had to go back to finish my masters. educational leave approved :)
This ones my favorite, so I summarized it for you:
Manager: "I have control over your future."
You: "No you don't."
Manager: "Dammit, please still work for us."
Mine's fairly tame but reading this forum and particularly this thread over the last few months helped me calmly and fearlessly negotiate my recent position change.Don't forget to thank yourself there, zinny1. Wouldn't have happened without your past self making good decisions.
I have been employed in my company for ~10 years, underpaid significantly for at least 6 of them due to restrictive 'levels' and 'ceilings'. A number of employees including myself changed to different type of contract which was less secure but had more flexibility for salary negotiations about 3 years ago. I was finally paid a fair salary, at least initially. Recently my responsibilities and the scope of my role have increased significantly and I was doing a lot more work that other co-workers at a similar salary level.
End of contract was 31 December and I received my offer late November. I was offered about $5K more which only put me on a par with the long-termers at my previous level of responsibility and didn't reflect the extra work I had been doing nor the work they were expecting me to take on from January 2017 after a structure change. I refused to sign. Cue lots of flapping about from HR and my manager trying to scare me into signing by saying things like; 'if you want your salary to reflect the next level up your position will have to be re-advertised and you might not get it' and 'your position is not indispensible you know'.
Because I knew I could live for at least two years on savings, plus I knew that my skills and expertise are actually hard to replace due to the systems and processes we use at work, I stood firm. Polite but immoveable. I won't sign for less than the next level up. And I want my salary reviewed in two years, not four. And I want a title change (didn't actually care about that but I thought I may as well ask for everything).
Lots of sighing and frowning and 'I'll see what I can do for you but don't hold your breath' type comments ensued and I quietly went about my business. I returned the following week to a freshly printed contract, increased salary, better benefits and a new title! All because I wasn't afraid to walk away. And also largely because to train someone up would take literally years and make the bosses lives much harder in the interim.
Thank the universe for FU money and lazy employers.
Mine's fairly tame but reading this forum and particularly this thread over the last few months helped me calmly and fearlessly negotiate my recent position change.
I have been employed in my company for ~10 years, underpaid significantly for at least 6 of them due to restrictive 'levels' and 'ceilings'. A number of employees including myself changed to different type of contract which was less secure but had more flexibility for salary negotiations about 3 years ago. I was finally paid a fair salary, at least initially. Recently my responsibilities and the scope of my role have increased significantly and I was doing a lot more work that other co-workers at a similar salary level.
End of contract was 31 December and I received my offer late November. I was offered about $5K more which only put me on a par with the long-termers at my previous level of responsibility and didn't reflect the extra work I had been doing nor the work they were expecting me to take on from January 2017 after a structure change. I refused to sign. Cue lots of flapping about from HR and my manager trying to scare me into signing by saying things like; 'if you want your salary to reflect the next level up your position will have to be re-advertised and you might not get it' and 'your position is not indispensible you know'.
Because I knew I could live for at least two years on savings, plus I knew that my skills and expertise are actually hard to replace due to the systems and processes we use at work, I stood firm. Polite but immoveable. I won't sign for less than the next level up. And I want my salary reviewed in two years, not four. And I want a title change (didn't actually care about that but I thought I may as well ask for everything).
Lots of sighing and frowning and 'I'll see what I can do for you but don't hold your breath' type comments ensued and I quietly went about my business. I returned the following week to a freshly printed contract, increased salary, better benefits and a new title! All because I wasn't afraid to walk away. And also largely because to train someone up would take literally years and make the bosses lives much harder in the interim.
Thank the universe for FU money and lazy employers.
You guys make me laugh! The hire was allowed to come in on contract, as a contract-to-hire. It was an abysmal failure and, after a few months of his saying things to employees like "I've never met a black person before!" (really) and always asking women on the campus if they were married, he was not hired permanently.Great story. (For you)
I stayed gone and had a much nicer job (with signing bonus, and lots of other bonuses, and $30k additional salary) in days, from a former colleague who'd moved on a year or so previously.
And I did that until we went FIRE not quite two years ago! :-) THE END. :-)
You guys make me laugh! The hire was allowed to come in on contract, as a contract-to-hire. It was an abysmal failure and, after a few months of his saying things to employees like "I've never met a black person before!" (really) and always asking women on the campus if they were married, he was not hired permanently.
I stayed gone and had a much nicer job (with signing bonus, and lots of other bonuses, and $30k additional salary) in days, from a former colleague who'd moved on a year or so previously.
And I did that until we went FIRE not quite two years ago! :-) THE END. :-)
I love you, Evgenia!
I had the whole "hire a man in over your head and expect you to do all his work for him" thing pulled on me twice. The first time, I finished up some projects that were personally important to me, and then quit. The second time, I kept working for a few months to bump up the savings until my return to the US, and then FIREd. I still kind of wish I had walked out immediately both times, though. It sucks when companies pull that glass ceiling shit....
I love you, Evgenia!
I had the whole "hire a man in over your head and expect you to do all his work for him" thing pulled on me twice. The first time, I finished up some projects that were personally important to me, and then quit. The second time, I kept working for a few months to bump up the savings until my return to the US, and then FIREd. I still kind of wish I had walked out immediately both times, though. It sucks when companies pull that glass ceiling shit....
You guys make me laugh! The hire was allowed to come in on contract, as a contract-to-hire. It was an abysmal failure and, after a few months of his saying things to employees like "I've never met a black person before!" (really) and always asking women on the campus if they were married, he was not hired permanently.
I stayed gone and had a much nicer job (with signing bonus, and lots of other bonuses, and $30k additional salary) in days, from a former colleague who'd moved on a year or so previously.
And I did that until we went FIRE not quite two years ago! :-) THE END. :-)
My story is this:
I worked at a large Internet company from 2007-2015. During the last 3 years at that company I found my way on to a special project that was run as an "internal startup" Now in Sept of 2015 our group spun off to an independent company.
Most of the other engineers were too scared to make the move. The large company is very stable and pays well and has great benefits. From a team of 80 we ended up with 37 people (only 6 engineers!)
I was able to take the risk and join the spinoff because I am 99% FI at this point. Our little company has become hugely successful in one year and now I'm looking to make real $$$ off of the very large equity grant I got as part of joining the new company.
FU Money == freedom to take risks.
Ah, but you learned and you were prepared when it happened again. I love you at least as much as lhamo does, maybe even a tiny bit more.I love you, Evgenia!
I had the whole "hire a man in over your head and expect you to do all his work for him" thing pulled on me twice. The first time, I finished up some projects that were personally important to me, and then quit. The second time, I kept working for a few months to bump up the savings until my return to the US, and then FIREd. I still kind of wish I had walked out immediately both times, though. It sucks when companies pull that glass ceiling shit....
Love you too! I have to say, awesome as it sounds, I only knew to walk *because* it had happened to me before. I did not, regretfully, walk the first time it happened.
I have one.OMFG.
Context: I was an engineering director down in Silicon Valley. All engineering programs reported in to me. I was in very good standing, got promotions every 6-12 months, year after year, more responsibility, yada yada all that. But, I'd hit the glass ceiling, having been told there was nowhere for me to go. Coincidentally, I was the only female director in the entire, vast place.
My MIL had died after a grueling bout with cancer, hospice, that whole shitty, undeserved kind of end. My husband was unemployed, as he'd quit his job (also in engineering) to take care of his mother in another part of the state (as others have pointed out, another key thing that FU money enables you to do).
It was a busy Software Season at my job, so we cut our annual (and, as you can probably gather, desperately needed) vacation with friends short, returning home on Thursday instead of Sunday.
Lesson #1: Everything bad happens when you go on vacation.
Lesson #2: Never, ever, EVER cut your vacation short. Ever.
I returned to work on Friday and, by 10 AM, was in a meeting with my (guilty, semi freaked out looking) boss explaining that, in the few days I'd been gone, some man had been interviewed and hired to take a brand new VP level position over me, *and* take over my team.
But it gets better... wait for it... My boss said he "hoped I'd stay on" and "could still be the new guy's assistant."
I said "I am no one's assistant. I'm leaving." And then I walked right out of the room and over to my desk, where I realized I probably should have asked my husband about this first, seeing as how we now had no income, him not having a job at the time and all. I texted him and said "Got a sec? Think I just quit my job." He called me and the very first words out of his mouth were, "Want me to come and help pack up your desk? Nothing would give me greater satisfaction than seeing you walk the fuck out of that place."
And that, ladies, is the moment you KNOW you married the perfect man. Unconditional support, he didn't even need to know why, and income, we could figure that out.
The details that emerged in the hours after my boss's announcement were priceless, and even more damning. It turned out my boss's boss had not even interviewed and was totally clueless about this hire (who would report to him), and instantly started fighting it like mad. Someone leaked the results of the new guy's interview and found the majority of people had recommended "No hire" and done so STRONGLY. On, and on. Unmitigated disaster, and nice to watch from afar, happily ensconced in my FU fund.
I have one.OMFG.
Context: I was an engineering director down in Silicon Valley. All engineering programs reported in to me. I was in very good standing, got promotions every 6-12 months, year after year, more responsibility, yada yada all that. But, I'd hit the glass ceiling, having been told there was nowhere for me to go. Coincidentally, I was the only female director in the entire, vast place.
My MIL had died after a grueling bout with cancer, hospice, that whole shitty, undeserved kind of end. My husband was unemployed, as he'd quit his job (also in engineering) to take care of his mother in another part of the state (as others have pointed out, another key thing that FU money enables you to do).
It was a busy Software Season at my job, so we cut our annual (and, as you can probably gather, desperately needed) vacation with friends short, returning home on Thursday instead of Sunday.
Lesson #1: Everything bad happens when you go on vacation.
Lesson #2: Never, ever, EVER cut your vacation short. Ever.
I returned to work on Friday and, by 10 AM, was in a meeting with my (guilty, semi freaked out looking) boss explaining that, in the few days I'd been gone, some man had been interviewed and hired to take a brand new VP level position over me, *and* take over my team.
But it gets better... wait for it... My boss said he "hoped I'd stay on" and "could still be the new guy's assistant."
I said "I am no one's assistant. I'm leaving." And then I walked right out of the room and over to my desk, where I realized I probably should have asked my husband about this first, seeing as how we now had no income, him not having a job at the time and all. I texted him and said "Got a sec? Think I just quit my job." He called me and the very first words out of his mouth were, "Want me to come and help pack up your desk? Nothing would give me greater satisfaction than seeing you walk the fuck out of that place."
And that, ladies, is the moment you KNOW you married the perfect man. Unconditional support, he didn't even need to know why, and income, we could figure that out.
The details that emerged in the hours after my boss's announcement were priceless, and even more damning. It turned out my boss's boss had not even interviewed and was totally clueless about this hire (who would report to him), and instantly started fighting it like mad. Someone leaked the results of the new guy's interview and found the majority of people had recommended "No hire" and done so STRONGLY. On, and on. Unmitigated disaster, and nice to watch from afar, happily ensconced in my FU fund.
That was epic, and your husband is awesome.
Also, glass ceiling sucks rocks. I hit it a few years ago (at manager level, not director level in engineering but not software), but have since seen new directors hired, whee! Whatever. Recently, boss said "you know I can't give you a raise, and we keep hiring expensive people elsewhere. So, if you need time off without taking PTO, go ahead and take it." Basically giving me permission to work 6 hour days when I need to. (Which, with 2 kids, both of whom seem to love getting the stomach flu, is often!)
Also NEVER cut your vacation short!
My very first (and only) FU story was when I was 16 and had just gotten my first job at an ice cream shop over the summer. After a month or so of working, my mom told me I could go on a trip by myself to visit family in France... I was ecstatic! But when I told the manager and asked for two weeks off, she said I couldn't have it.
What? This was the first job I'd ever had, and it seemed strange to me that I wasn't allowed to come and go as I pleased, and I said, quite surprisedly, that I was going no matter what. The manager made a big fuss about it and said that I wasn't responsible, blah blah blah, you're fired! I went home and cried, but decided to go on the trip - not much of a decision really, as I didn't NEED the money. I worked up until I left, and the manager seemed almost happy to see me "fired."
And then when I came back from vacation, I went back to the ice cream place, where they were still hiring. The owner was surprised to see me, hadn't I been fired? I said yes, but I'm a good worker and I just wanted to take a trip so you should hire me back. And they did, haha! The manager was so butthurt to see me back on the schedule, but I was the only employee that would show up on time and do the work so there was really nothing she could say about it.
Suck it, TCBY!
Another example of A glass ceiling (not the same that you're talking about here) sucking: A woman in my old job was amazing. Did way more work than anyone on the team, had knowledge that no one else did--she wasn't irreplaceable, but she wasn't someone you'd want to replace.Yeah, I've been there too. About 9 years ago, I quit a job. I was working 30 hours a week and had 2 people working for me. Due to some changes, my company decided to close down our project at our site. They offered the 5 of us a job at the same site but in a different group.
At a performance review, she basically asked why she wasn't the next level up. They told her that they don't promote to that level. She prodded further and found it was that that department didn't promote to that level. Within 4 months, 4 of us out of 12 had left that team, in part because of that knowledge.
What a great story! I'm not a fan of hairless cats, but that one looks adorable (the sweater covering him up helps ;-). How many people would have caved and sent the him back into an abusive home...I am going to love all hairless cats from now on because they could be Hamlet. Good job on saving his life (both times).
Nippycrisp that was awesome. And that sweater is awesome too.Right? +1 on both accounts. Need more cat-related-money stories with happy endings around here.
Naturally, nothing came of it - my SO continued working there and the newest member of our family continued rubbing his face against my stubble whenever he could.
Summers at the farm,
Playing with babushka's goat.
Kittens every year.
Summers at the farm,
Playing with babushka's goat.
Kittens every year.
I see what you did, and I appreciate it.
Summers at the farm,
Playing with babushka's goat.
Kittens every year.
I see what you did, and I appreciate it.
I missed the hidden message. Anyone care to share?
Summers at the farm,
Playing with babushka's goat.
Kittens every year.
I see what you did, and I appreciate it.
I missed the hidden message. Anyone care to share?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku
Summers at the farm,
Playing with babushka's goat.
Kittens every year.
I see what you did, and I appreciate it.
I missed the hidden message. Anyone care to share?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku
I get that it's a hauku. I don't get the content.
Summers at the farm,
Playing with babushka's goat.
Kittens every year.
I see what you did, and I appreciate it.
I missed the hidden message. Anyone care to share?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku
I get that it's a hauku. I don't get the content.
Ditto.
It wouldn't be happiness without a violin playing goat.Summers at the farm,
Playing with babushka's goat.
Kittens every year.
I see what you did, and I appreciate it.
Agree with ARS, this is by FAR the best thread on this forum.Pastrami is the most sensual of the dried, salted meats.
Although I have been a guest lurker for a long time I have finally made myself legit -->http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/profile/?u=31677 (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/profile/?u=31677) on the forum, but mostly to follow this thread more easily.
I suppose I am lucky that my work around the salted cured meats industry has proven to be filled with top quality folks and no working through the 'meat grinder.'
I would love to hear a story from one of these people.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-13/one-reason-staffers-quit-google-s-car-project-the-company-paid-them-so-much
Are any of you here?
I would love to hear a story from one of these people.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-13/one-reason-staffers-quit-google-s-car-project-the-company-paid-them-so-much
Are any of you here?
This is not my story, but an epic FU money (or really an epic FU skill set) story published via a blog:
https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber (https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber)
I think I'll pass on ever traveling via Uber again . . . most of their drivers are also on other apps anyway.
I'm a former Googler. Worked there 8 years. Pretty much FI at this point but I am still working for another couple years I think.
But I was prepared to clean out my office the day of the interview. It was a good feeling.I don't know about the rest of you, but this is certainly epic in my book.
I read this just this morning. Ugh...This is not my story, but an epic FU money (or really an epic FU skill set) story published via a blog:
https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber (https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber)
I think I'll pass on ever traveling via Uber again . . . most of their drivers are also on other apps anyway.
Quite a story about a company headquartered in such a so called progressive city in a liberalish state. If Über is really that way it's doomed. That type of environment and institutional stupidity will poison more than just work related gender issues.
Edit: And now the story's out: https://techcrunch.com/2017/02/19/former-uber-engineer-says-company-ignored-repeated-reports-of-harassment/
That's a great story, but what's with the dog years?
I would love to hear a story from one of these people.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-13/one-reason-staffers-quit-google-s-car-project-the-company-paid-them-so-much
Are any of you here?
FTFY. Loved the story, no problem following along, and I'm not the sharpest shovel in the toolshed.And all the quotes. And hyphens.Good story.but that was one painful read.
[NOTE: earlier references to 'dog years' removed - it was a reference to working at retailer A where one year seemed like 7 years out of your life in a real cut-throat environment.]
Could have been epic...
There's been a ton of work drama. I've been doing my supervisor's job for years. But I enjoy the job, and moves were made to keep the supervisor out of my hair. He left for medical reasons last September. I spend the next 4 months doing all of the things. They finally open his job once the FMLA runs out. I have to apply for it just like everyone else.
Here's the thing. I refuse to train a new supervisor. If I don't get the position, I'm leaving. I have a year's worth of expenses sitting around. I can make more freelancing in 4 months than I can in a year at this job. AND I have another side gig that would easily translate to a full time thing. I tell this to the boss. He tells his boss. .... I get the job, at the highest pay step they can give me.
But I was prepared to clean out my office the day of the interview. It was a good feeling.
We want it to ship in 15 working days, so I need you to start right away.
Could have been epic...
There's been a ton of work drama. I've been doing my supervisor's job for years. But I enjoy the job, and moves were made to keep the supervisor out of my hair. He left for medical reasons last September. I spend the next 4 months doing all of the things. They finally open his job once the FMLA runs out. I have to apply for it just like everyone else.
Here's the thing. I refuse to train a new supervisor. If I don't get the position, I'm leaving. I have a year's worth of expenses sitting around. I can make more freelancing in 4 months than I can in a year at this job. AND I have another side gig that would easily translate to a full time thing. I tell this to the boss. He tells his boss. .... I get the job, at the highest pay step they can give me.
But I was prepared to clean out my office the day of the interview. It was a good feeling.
There's a good one on TheDailyWTF today:
http://thedailywtf.com/articles/it-s-no-big-deal (http://thedailywtf.com/articles/it-s-no-big-deal)
One or two complainypants in the comments section ("How could you possibly save enough to retire after 30 years in tech?"), but mostly supportive :)
I'm a former Googler. Worked there 8 years. Pretty much FI at this point but I am still working for another couple years I think.
You said you used to work there.. Did you achieve FI, but then left to do something else just because you wanted to? Details please :)
There's a good one on TheDailyWTF today:Nice. Always a complainy pants, in every bunch.
http://thedailywtf.com/articles/it-s-no-big-deal (http://thedailywtf.com/articles/it-s-no-big-deal)
One or two complainypants in the comments section ("How could you possibly save enough to retire after 30 years in tech?"), but mostly supportive :)
I'm a former Googler. Worked there 8 years. Pretty much FI at this point but I am still working for another couple years I think.
You said you used to work there.. Did you achieve FI, but then left to do something else just because you wanted to? Details please :)
Yeah. I was basically FI, but I still had some things I wanted to do as far as working. I had never done a startup. My team spun off from Google to become an independent company in Sept of 2015. Lots of my co-workers couldn't or wouldn't take the risk and stayed behind.
9 months later Niantic Labs launched Pokemon Go. It was a risk worth taking, I think.
Paul
But I was prepared to clean out my office the day of the interview. It was a good feeling.I don't know about the rest of you, but this is certainly epic in my book.
You are at Niantic? That's freaking awesome (never played PG, but I was a loyal ENL for a while)
You are at Niantic? That's freaking awesome (never played PG, but I was a loyal ENL for a while)
Come back, your team needs you!
You are at Niantic? That's freaking awesome (never played PG, but I was a loyal ENL for a while)
Come back, your team needs you!
You are at Niantic? That's freaking awesome (never played PG, but I was a loyal ENL for a while)
Come back, your team needs you!
No they don't. Come back and join the Resistance!
You are at Niantic? That's freaking awesome (never played PG, but I was a loyal ENL for a while)
Glad to see we have some Ingress players on here. Personally, I'm resistance all the way, but we do have a good mix of both here at HQ.
You are at Niantic? That's freaking awesome (never played PG, but I was a loyal ENL for a while)
Yeah, been at Niantic since 2012. I think I'll be here for at least another year or two. It's been pretty intense in the last year - I feel like I've earned every dollar. We have a 4 year vest for our options but I'm not sure I'll make it all the way to 2019. It's hard when you don't really need the extra money, though the work environment is good and I like my coworkers for the most part.
You are at Niantic? That's freaking awesome (never played PG, but I was a loyal ENL for a while)
Yeah, been at Niantic since 2012. I think I'll be here for at least another year or two. It's been pretty intense in the last year - I feel like I've earned every dollar. We have a 4 year vest for our options but I'm not sure I'll make it all the way to 2019. It's hard when you don't really need the extra money, though the work environment is good and I like my coworkers for the most part.
Vesting is, IMHO, one of the most reasonable excuses for "One More Year". Depending on the amount that is at stake, of course, but it could end up being "Two more years salary for one more year of work".
You are at Niantic? That's freaking awesome (never played PG, but I was a loyal ENL for a while)
Yeah, been at Niantic since 2012. I think I'll be here for at least another year or two. It's been pretty intense in the last year - I feel like I've earned every dollar. We have a 4 year vest for our options but I'm not sure I'll make it all the way to 2019. It's hard when you don't really need the extra money, though the work environment is good and I like my coworkers for the most part.
Glad to see we have some Ingress players on here. Personally, I'm resistance all the way, but we do have a good mix of both here at HQ.
Glad to see we have some Ingress players on here. Personally, I'm resistance all the way, but we do have a good mix of both here at HQ.
Are you active? I'm curious if we know each other by agent name.
Cool, my wife loved ingress and we both play Pokemon Go(she is a little more active than I am XD)
As for your situation it is definitely understandable to feel like you should stay for the vesting and not miss out on the money and this will likely be completely up to yourself. If you have more than enough to comfortably FIRE with your current level of spending and current stache then you don't need the extra money and the only reason to stay is because you enjoy it or feel some kind of responsibility to stay till a certain point. If however it gets to the point where you don't enjoy the work then don't let golden handcuffs hold you back.
Haven't been playing too much lately because of work, but I'm NumberSix, Lvl 15 Resistance.
Yesterday I overheard a conversation between a coworker (C) and one of the housekeeping staff (H). H mentioned that he has 3 working days until retirement, at which point I stuck my nose into the conversation to congratulate him. I had never seen him smile before, but he sure was smiling when we talked about his retirement! I wouldn't call him young, but he looks like he might be a few years younger than "normal" retirement age.I still remember the 2-3 conversations I had with an aide at the hospital when my first son was born. I can't remember if she was housekeeping or Food service (so long ago). She and her husband had raised 3 kids, worked hard in their manual labor jobs, and at that point, owned 3 homes in Santa Barbara - free and clear. Buy a fixer, fix it up, rent it out. Lather, rinse, repeat.
The FU money part of it is that after he walked away, C told me that H had several properties around town and had decided to retire after our company cut the housekeepers' hourly rate almost in half. I would like to think that he is a closet Mustachian. And I love the fact that just because someone empties trash cans for a living doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing with their money!
Buy a fixer, fix it up, rent it out. Lather, rinse, repeat.
"Lather, rinse, repeat".A bit like the increase the diameter of the toothpaste nozzle story...
I always thought that 'repeat' part was just a way for Head and Shoulders to double their sales. :-)
After spending the South American summer months hiking, camping, and hitchhiking around Patagonia and the Andes, we shipped our camping gear to my parents' house and continued to travel North. My wife found a great volunteering opportunity in Bolivia with an NGO hospital for a month (I joined the grounds crew) and then we continued on through Colombia. From there we met my brother in Vietnam and continued around SE Asia for 6 weeks. All told we were gone for 9 months... and spent an additional several weeks on either end seeing family. We tracked every nickel and spent just over $24k including flights.
Yesterday I overheard a conversation between a coworker (C) and one of the housekeeping staff (H). H mentioned that he has 3 working days until retirement, at which point I stuck my nose into the conversation to congratulate him. I had never seen him smile before, but he sure was smiling when we talked about his retirement! I wouldn't call him young, but he looks like he might be a few years younger than "normal" retirement age.
The FU money part of it is that after he walked away, C told me that H had several properties around town and had decided to retire after our company cut the housekeepers' hourly rate almost in half. I would like to think that he is a closet Mustachian. And I love the fact that just because someone empties trash cans for a living doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing with their money!
BRRR is a Thing now: Buy, Renovate, Rent, Repeat. Or Buy, Renovate, Rent, Refinance, Repeat. It's another way for mustachians to double their net worths. :-)Buy a fixer, fix it up, rent it out. Lather, rinse, repeat.
"Lather, rinse, repeat".
I always thought that 'repeat' part was just a way for Head and Shoulders to double their sales. :-)
Another Bigger Pockets fan I see!BRRR is a Thing now: Buy, Renovate, Rent, Repeat. Or Buy, Renovate, Rent, Refinance, Repeat. It's another way for mustachians to double their net worths. :-)Buy a fixer, fix it up, rent it out. Lather, rinse, repeat.
"Lather, rinse, repeat".
I always thought that 'repeat' part was just a way for Head and Shoulders to double their sales. :-)
Got handed a shit sandwich at work today. Even though we have FU money, I'm hanging on since we are expecting our second soon and now isn't the best time to quit. I think I might have something to contribute soon but I hope not atleast for some more time.
Yesterday I overheard a conversation between a coworker (C) and one of the housekeeping staff (H). H mentioned that he has 3 working days until retirement, at which point I stuck my nose into the conversation to congratulate him. I had never seen him smile before, but he sure was smiling when we talked about his retirement! I wouldn't call him young, but he looks like he might be a few years younger than "normal" retirement age.
The FU money part of it is that after he walked away, C told me that H had several properties around town and had decided to retire after our company cut the housekeepers' hourly rate almost in half. I would like to think that he is a closet Mustachian. And I love the fact that just because someone empties trash cans for a living doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing with their money!
Lolz, I can't say that's true. I learned the term elsewhere, in a link I followed to an article that was cited on this wonderful forum. Truth is, we were doing it on our own without realizing it was a Thing. We're real estate weirdos and love doing projects. We can't travel right now, so flipping and BRRR-ing help us focus on what we CAN do. We are not hard core on the financial side. For example, we don't re-fi. We pay cash or we get a good loan in the first place. We also flex on the 1% rule, which is BP heresy. Ergo, I don't think Bigger Pockets would completely approve of our ways. We are otherwise FI, so we are not as strict with the numbers as they advocate.Another Bigger Pockets fan I see!BRRR is a Thing now: Buy, Renovate, Rent, Repeat. Or Buy, Renovate, Rent, Refinance, Repeat. It's another way for mustachians to double their net worths. :-)Buy a fixer, fix it up, rent it out. Lather, rinse, repeat.
"Lather, rinse, repeat".
I always thought that 'repeat' part was just a way for Head and Shoulders to double their sales. :-)
Both of my parents have passed away in the last two years. In fact, today is the first anniversary of my Dad's death. This tale sparks a memory... Dad drove an old Toyota Corolla with a license plate frame that read "Retired, Now I Work at Honey-Do Construction". He actually did retire at fifty, badass that he was. RIP, "Pops".Yesterday I overheard a conversation between a coworker (C) and one of the housekeeping staff (H). H mentioned that he has 3 working days until retirement, at which point I stuck my nose into the conversation to congratulate him. I had never seen him smile before, but he sure was smiling when we talked about his retirement! I wouldn't call him young, but he looks like he might be a few years younger than "normal" retirement age.
The FU money part of it is that after he walked away, C told me that H had several properties around town and had decided to retire after our company cut the housekeepers' hourly rate almost in half. I would like to think that he is a closet Mustachian. And I love the fact that just because someone empties trash cans for a living doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing with their money!
Update: It gets even better! Turns out his first day of retirement is his birthday. He's using a vacation day for it. That's one hell of a birthday present!
As for how to make the transition, he says his friends and family already have a growing to do list for him, since they all know he'll soon have a lot of time on his hands. I guess that's one way to do it for those who are concerned about feeling a bit lost when they no longer have to get up and go to work.
Got handed a shit sandwich at work today. Even though we have FU money, I'm hanging on since we are expecting our second soon and now isn't the best time to quit. I think I might have something to contribute soon but I hope not atleast for some more time.Hang in there firelight! As I was reminded when I recently had a shit sandwich, the fact that you have FU money gives you choices and you're choosing to hang in there a little longer. Knowing that you're accepting it because something else is more important, helped me swallow the first bite. I've also decided to not put up with so much shit, to just say "that's not okay" more often when I get the sandwich. Good luck!
I have not read everyone's stories yet, but I do have my own epic FU money story.
I worked at a law firm with 13 attorneys, straight out of law school at 26. I had lots of options because I went to a regionally respected law school and finished near the top of my law class. I rejected many offers for salary positions and chose this firm because it allowed me to create my own practice. We split fees based on various percentages. There was no cap on my earnings.
Fast forward 3.5 years. I was 29 years old. My practice had exploded. There were basically two problems. First, by the time of the FU incident I was making more money than anyone in the firm and I was the youngest person there. Second, the managing partner and the office administrator were incompetent, bitter and creating a toxic work environment.
A key part of the story is that 6 weeks prior to the FU incident, the managing partner used $10,000 of my money, without permission, to pay all the partners salaries because they had "cash flow issues." They money was paid back a week later. This signaled financial shenanigans on top of being totally, totally toxic.
One day, the managing partner approached me and said she wanted to renegotiate my deal AND audit every case for the appropriate percentage from the prior two years. The renegotiation was ridiculous. The audit was a major, totally unwarranted affront to my integrity - from a person who had just taken $10,000 of my money!
So, I went home with my wife - coincidentally an auditor and accountant. We performed the audit ourselves and ran all the numbers. I discovered that for the prior two years, less than 1% of my income had come from their referrals. I was a major profit center for the firm - generating over $250,000 for the firm over the prior 24 months. And, in fact, the toxic office administrator had intentionally mis-categorized my referrals thereby underpaying me.
Fortunately, I had been on the MMM train since the beginning and had an FU money war-chest of a couple hundred thousand dollars. Interestingly, the MMM choices had been the object of much curiosity since everyone knew I was making a lot but spending very little. Why are you riding your bike to work? Why did you buy such a "modest" house for your income. Why don't you get a new car? Those are actual comments.
So, the FU moment arrived when I delivered a renegotiated contract proposal to the partners. I proposed to pay them a flat monthly fee that amounted to 35% of what they were currently getting. I proposed that if they ever held any of my money without legal authority or permission they pay $1,000 per day for the privilege. Egg on the face of managing partner who had not advised anyone of the $10,000 "cash flow" issue or her proposed audit and renegotiation.
A comment this board will particularly appreciate in response, "We can't take this deal, we'd have to reduce our salaries and our budgets are set to our salaries." Facepalm.
During the wind up phase, the toxic, money stealing office administrator - who had been around long enough to have a way, way over-inflated sense of importance - spoke up during a tense conversation about splitting remaining funds. I looked at her and said, "You have no ownership in this firm, I have never been in business with you and don't want to hear anything you have to say." Hahahahaha. Her jaw dropped. Her upper lip trembled with rage. She didn't say a freaking word. It was the best moment of the entire thing, even better than the contract proposal.
Long story short, I opened my own law firm one week later. I now pay 20% less in overhead. I work dramatically reduced hours because I have actual, dedicated staff for just me - which they would never give me. Also, my gross receipts are up about 10% in the first 12 months. Life is good.
As a post script - the incompetent managing partner hired a guy to fill my office. Remember, that office was earning over $250,000 for the firm in the proceeding 24 months. The guy was paid a salary for six months - rather than have his pay tied to his productivity. Eventually it came out he was a total fraud who lied about being licensed in our state (he did have a different, faraway state). He even filed court documents without the appropriate license. He was fired immediately and the office remains vacant, producing zero profits. Schadenfreude? Yes.
Also as a disclaimer, there are many, many attorneys who are great at servicing their clients but not so good at business. In the event I needed legal help, I would immediately hire any of these attorneys - except the managing partner. They really are competent, professional people - but bad business and money managers. In the end, I maintained great relationships with everyone except the managing partner and the office administrator.
I have an update to this story. Recently, one of the partners of this law firm left and decided to open his law firm, right across the hallway from me. I got a little inside info that had remained hidden for two years.
It turns out the Managing Partner and the toxic office administrator were totally in cahoots to oust me from the firm. After I delivered my proposal, described above, there was a meeting where the partners were going to respond. Apparently, it had been the topic of conversation that it would not make sense for me to continue to pay larger and larger sums of money and they would eventually have to change my deal - which is what I was asking for. So, my proposal was not a surprise and they were willing to work with me.
Enter the managing partner and administrator: the administrator entered the partner meeting and tendered her immediate resignation if she had to continue to work with me. She then walked out. This would have created a temporary chaos and she was the paralegal for the firms' founder who no one would override. So, they didn't make me a counter offer and instead asked, "If we don't keep him, will Administrator come back." To which managing partner replied immediately, "I'll talk to her about that." Moments later, the resignation was withdrawn and my fate was sealed. The partner who just left the firm - because the same managing partner and toxic administrator were costing him lots and lots of money and stress, said he was in shock at how the whole group had been so masterfully manipulated.
If you recall the story from above, I told her off AFTER she had done all this. It only makes it sweeter.
As they say, living well is the best revenge. I've had my own practice for two years now. I've doubled my net worth. I work 20-30 hours less per week and make more money. Life is good. They really did me a huge favor.
P.S. My leading theory on why the office administrator wanted me gone is that if I had stayed I would have been forced to address her purposely mis-coding my cases and, thereby, underpaying me. This would have been very bad for her as a major breach of trust. So, I think she knew that if I stayed her shenanigans would become a mini-office scandal and potentially she could lose her job. She went for the jugular when she had the chance. Why the Managing Partner was so upset? I think it had to do with calling her out on the $10,000 in front of everyone. But why did they turn their eyes to me prior to the $10,000 blow up and coding discovery? I'll never really know.
I know most of you probably couldn't care less, but I wanted to say it somewhere: toxic Managing Partner of this law firm is being forced out of the firm she founded.
Me? Almost FI and just got back from two month sabbatical in Mexico where I settled the biggest case of my life from the beach (literally).
So, so sweet.
I know most of you probably couldn't care less, but I wanted to say it somewhere: toxic Managing Partner of this law firm is being forced out of the firm she founded.I respectfully beg to differ with you, Fb35. Who doesn't love a good story with a happy ending? Thanks for the update!
Me? Almost FI and just got back from two month sabbatical in Mexico where I settled the biggest case of my life from the beach (literally).
So, so sweet.
I know most of you probably couldn't care less, but I wanted to say it somewhere: toxic Managing Partner of this law firm is being forced out of the firm she founded.I respectfully beg to differ with you, Fb35. Who doesn't love a good story with a happy ending? Thanks for the update!
Me? Almost FI and just got back from two month sabbatical in Mexico where I settled the biggest case of my life from the beach (literally).
So, so sweet.
I know most of you probably couldn't care less, but I wanted to say it somewhere: toxic Managing Partner of this law firm is being forced out of the firm she founded.I respectfully beg to differ with you, Fb35. Who doesn't love a good story with a happy ending? Thanks for the update!
Me? Almost FI and just got back from two month sabbatical in Mexico where I settled the biggest case of my life from the beach (literally).
So, so sweet.
+1 I love updates!
+3 This story just gets better with time.I know most of you probably couldn't care less, but I wanted to say it somewhere: toxic Managing Partner of this law firm is being forced out of the firm she founded.I respectfully beg to differ with you, Fb35. Who doesn't love a good story with a happy ending? Thanks for the update!
Me? Almost FI and just got back from two month sabbatical in Mexico where I settled the biggest case of my life from the beach (literally).
So, so sweet.
+1 I love updates!
+2 What happened to the toxic administrator? Is she still there causing chaos?
I know most of you probably couldn't care less, but I wanted to say it somewhere: toxic Managing Partner of this law firm is being forced out of the firm she founded.
Me? Almost FI and just got back from two month sabbatical in Mexico where I settled the biggest case of my life from the beach (literally).
So, so sweet.
I know most of you probably couldn't care less, but I wanted to say it somewhere: toxic Managing Partner of this law firm is being forced out of the firm she founded.I respectfully beg to differ with you, Fb35. Who doesn't love a good story with a happy ending? Thanks for the update!
Me? Almost FI and just got back from two month sabbatical in Mexico where I settled the biggest case of my life from the beach (literally).
So, so sweet.
+1 I love updates!
+2 What happened to the toxic administrator? Is she still there causing chaos?
Thankfully, I've got a healthy 'stache (around 6x annual expenses) and a supportive partner whose job is secure, so I give notice and....here's the epic bit....one week later HR comes back and reclassifies my transition as a role restructuring. I'm leaving next month, will get paid out for 5-6 weeks of PTO in my last check, and am likely looking at 3 months severance pay given my tenure with the organization. I've got a clean narrative for my departure and am essentially pulling a paycheck through July/August. While my ego doesn't like the circumstances behind this transition, my 'stache is telling her to get over herself.
Another Bigger Pockets fan I see!
+4!+3 This story just gets better with time.I know most of you probably couldn't care less, but I wanted to say it somewhere: toxic Managing Partner of this law firm is being forced out of the firm she founded.I respectfully beg to differ with you, Fb35. Who doesn't love a good story with a happy ending? Thanks for the update!
Me? Almost FI and just got back from two month sabbatical in Mexico where I settled the biggest case of my life from the beach (literally).
So, so sweet.
+1 I love updates!
+2 What happened to the toxic administrator? Is she still there causing chaos?
I replied that there was a "No Scanner" sign on the end of every rowWhy does the organization care? You want to sell the books, you set the price, what's it to you if they want to scan the book before buying it?
I replied that there was a "No Scanner" sign on the end of every rowWhy does the organization care? You want to sell the books, you set the price, what's it to you if they want to scan the book before buying it?
Agree with ARS, this is by FAR the best thread on this forum.Pastrami is the most sensual of the dried, salted meats.
Although I have been a guest lurker for a long time I have finally made myself legit -->http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/profile/?u=31677 (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/profile/?u=31677) on the forum, but mostly to follow this thread more easily.
I suppose I am lucky that my work around the salted cured meats industry has proven to be filled with top quality folks and no working through the 'meat grinder.'
- Next, those fuckers beep and drives those of us who are in the room all day nuts.
As for my boss? He called my mom and told on me!
Agree with ARS, this is by FAR the best thread on this forum.Pastrami is the most sensual of the dried, salted meats.
Although I have been a guest lurker for a long time I have finally made myself legit -->http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/profile/?u=31677 (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/profile/?u=31677) on the forum, but mostly to follow this thread more easily.
I suppose I am lucky that my work around the salted cured meats industry has proven to be filled with top quality folks and no working through the 'meat grinder.'
Is that Constanza?
Agree with ARS, this is by FAR the best thread on this forum.Pastrami is the most sensual of the dried, salted meats.
Although I have been a guest lurker for a long time I have finally made myself legit -->http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/profile/?u=31677 (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/profile/?u=31677) on the forum, but mostly to follow this thread more easily.
I suppose I am lucky that my work around the salted cured meats industry has proven to be filled with top quality folks and no working through the 'meat grinder.'
Is that Constanza?
Obviously!
Changed my 401K contribution from 4% to get full company match to max amount
Difference in taxable income of ~$20,000
FU - Not paying for a stinking wall or WW III
Maybe a better way to put that is that your country is paying for the wall in spit of your decision to defer your taxes to a later point in time.I, too, spit on the decision to build a wall. May it never happen and Dog bless Cemex!
Walls are invincible.
However, I expect sales of rope to go up in Mexico. :D
The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.
How do people even deal with this office politics for years and years?
How do people even deal with this office politics for years and years?
It's a game, like chess or poker. Some people like it well enough to do it professionally, or else suffer it for the pay despite not liking it. Biggest real difference is the number of positions in the pro leagues.
Walls are invincible.
However, I expect sales of rope to go up in Mexico. :D
Walls are invincible.
However, I expect sales of rope to go up in Mexico. :D
Cmon! Anyone heard of tunnels? Talk about an exercise in futility!
I think you have your political parties mixed up! :PWalls are invincible.
However, I expect sales of rope to go up in Mexico. :D
Cmon! Anyone heard of tunnels? Talk about an exercise in futility!
Oh! That's what the Republicans meant by "shovel ready".
How do people even deal with this office politics for years and years?
It's a game, like chess or poker. Some people like it well enough to do it professionally, or else suffer it for the pay despite not liking it. Biggest real difference is the number of positions in the pro leagues.
How do people even deal with this office politics for years and years?
It's a game, like chess or poker. Some people like it well enough to do it professionally, or else suffer it for the pay despite not liking it. Biggest real difference is the number of positions in the pro leagues.
My argument was incredibly specific. By habit I had notes, files and emails with exact quotes and times. My boss tried to say that he never got the notes and emails but Microsoft Exchange and file versioning are wonderful things and I had already pulled logs in anticipation of the review process. I responded to his first "I never got that email" with "According to the Microsoft Exchange logs the message was delivered to your inbox at this time and you marked it as read at this time". When he tried to say he never saw my file on the server I responded with "According to the file server logs you made a revision to the file in question on this date at this exact time." I refuted his claim of sending me an email that he never did (he had made this claim in our previous meeting) with a dump of my exchange file logs showing no email like that had been received and asked him to pull his logs to show he sent it. He admitted he may not have sent that email.
RE Office politics, but not really about FU money other than that I had plenty and "Jane" didn't.
(snipped for brevity)
Sometimes office politics are the best defense for office politics. UB lasted all of 6 months as a Director. After that I got the email that said. "UB no longer works for _company_."
Exterous -> this was awesomely epic, and amazingly anal/tech proficient of you. I'm in awe.
JGS
Amazing!Sometimes office politics are the best defense for office politics. UB lasted all of 6 months as a Director. After that I got the email that said. "UB no longer works for _company_."
Outstanding!
"It seems that I'm being promoted and will now report to 'Other IT Director' instead of UB. I have a new job accountability to train data literacy and ETL efficiency and am to be considered the model for how to partner with the business.
...
...
No offense but this looks more like an "I'm fucked" story than an FU one.
Yes and no. I lost 30% of her time. I never noticed the difference though as she still delivered everything needed for all my projects. I suspect my projects got priority in her workload and that as involved as they were, she still wasn't at capacity. Top notch performer."It seems that I'm being promoted and will now report to 'Other IT Director' instead of UB. I have a new job accountability to train data literacy and ETL efficiency and am to be considered the model for how to partner with the business.
I can't tell... after all that trouble did you still lose your data maven?
BANK LOSES $1 MILLION DEPOSIT IN PARKING VALIDATION DISPUTE (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1989/02/21/bank-loses-1-million-deposit-in-parking-validation-dispute/1f5a3a42-b5aa-4857-bcc3-89579b367c58/?utm_term=.e7ce3e960cac)
February 21, 1989
SPOKANE, WASH., FEB. 20 -- A bank in Spokane learned an expensive lesson by refusing to validate a 60-cent parking slip for a destitute-looking man, who retaliated by withdrawing his $1 million account.
"If you have $1 in a bank or $1 million, I think they owe you the courtesy of stamping your parking ticket," John Barrier said in an interview today in the Spokane Spokesman-Review.
Barrier, 59, said he was wearing his usual shabby clothes last October when he pulled his pickup truck into the Old National Bank parking lot in Spokane. He paid a quick visit to his broker, cashed a check at the bank and then went outside to drive away.
The lot boy said there was a 60-cent parking fee, but that Barrier could take his slip inside to get it validated. No problem, he thought, because he had done business at ONB -- now U.S. Bank of Washington -- for more than 30 years. But a teller took one look at his grubby clothes and refused to stamp the parking bill.
"She told me the bank only validated parking tickets when a customer made a transaction and that cashing a check wasn't a transaction," said Barrier.
The millionaire said he asked the teller to call a bank manager, who also refused.
"He looked me up and down and stood back and gave me one of those kinds of looks," said Barrier, turning up his nose to imitate the manager. "I said, 'Fine, you don't need me and I don't need you.' "
Barrier withdrew all his money and took it down the street to Seafirst Bank.
"The first check he brought me was for $1 million," said Dennis Veter, vice president of Seafirst's main Spokane branch.
"You'd never know by looking at him, but you or I should be so lucky."
Phyllis Campbell, area manager for U.S. Bank of Washington, confirmed Barrier's story and said the incident prompted the bank to review the way it does business.
"Every customer should be treated as a guest. Unfortunately, this incident didn't happen that way," Campbell said.
Barrier's picture was taken this month for Seafirst so the bank can promote its new customer in its newsletter this week. While Barrier was standing in front of the Old National Bank building after the photo session, a destitute-looking man walked by.
"You see that guy?" Barrier asked. "Well, we're all the same. I'm no better than that guy or anybody else."
He says he was born a Texas orphan, made it only through the 10th grade and joined the Navy after marrying young. He came to Spokane in the 1950s and made a lot of money buying and refurbishing old buildings.
"Anybody can do it," Barrier said of his wealth. "God gives everybody in life 24 hours a day. It's just how you use those 24 hours that lets you get ahead."
I dress very casually on occasion and have gotten looks like that on occasion. No one has ever refused me service though.I've pull out large amounts, dressed in a old biker jacket, nary a blink, didn't even ask for photo ID (had a bank card).
On the other hand, having $1M+ in a bank savings account is not very mustachian.
I have had to tell him off when he decided to wear thongs to a club because of their dress code.
Yeah sorry about that. It's like fanny packs too ;-)
I dress very casually on occasion and have gotten looks like that on occasion. No one has ever refused me service though.I've pull out large amounts, dressed in a old biker jacket, nary a blink, didn't even ask for photo ID (had a bank card).
On the other hand, having $1M+ in a bank savings account is not very mustachian.
It was going to a cashier's check and I think I had to sign for it.
$1M might be a small fraction of his stuff (cash allocation)?
"The first check he brought me was for $1 million,"
Sorry if this is a repeat. I just stumbled across this sub and immediately thought of a story I read in the Spokane Spokesman-Review about 30 years ago. I looked for the original, but could only find this Washington Post article
The original article had many more satisfying details, and it's likely my memory has added some. For example, I remember the parking fee being 50 cents, not 60.
Anyway, weathered looking guy wearing old jeans and a wrinkled shirt had just cashed a check at a downtown Spokane bank. Spokane had paid parking, but you could get your ticket validated at downtown businesses. With enough validation, parking was free.
As he's leaving, he remembers he didn't get his parking stub validated. He gets back in line and asks the teller to validate the stub.
"I'm sorry, sir, we only validate with a transaction."
He explains he was just here and shows her the receipt. She won't budge. He asks to speak to an upper level bank exec by name. "I'm sorry, sir, he's too busy."
He asks for a manger, explains, and again asks for the upper level exec by name. The manager explains that he's in a meeting and that the customer should leave.
The guy says, "If I make a transaction, you'll validate the ticket?" Yep.
"I'd like to close my account."
The teller gets a snarky look and starts complying, only to have her face fall as she pulls up the details. Suddenly, they are all apologetic and go to get the exec he'd asked for.
He's just as firm as they were and insists he wants his account closed. I recall it being around $8 million.
He took the cashiers checks, walked across the street and opened a new account at a competing bank, after getting his parking validated.
The bank changed their policy. They would validate parking sans transaction.
sets an SVP's car on fire
Awesome thread!
FIRE is 10-12 years away for me, but when I do finally quit I definitely want people saying, 'Wow, now that guy got canned!'.
A few years ago, the company I worked at was purchased and they proceeded to fire my whole department (~100 people). So one of the fired employees says goodbye to everyone, calmly steps out the door, and sets an SVP's car on fire. It was glorious.
sets an SVP's car on fire
Wrong FIRE! Damage like that doesn't suggest that the perpetrator had much confidence in their economic position without that job, quite the opposite. I mean I like Office Space as much as the next guy or gal, but I can't help but think that this is the exact opposite of what most people find inspiring about this thread.
Both, unfortunately. Retirement is 10-12 years away, and I suspect that I should be at that FU money stage before setting fire to anything.Awesome thread!
FIRE is 10-12 years away for me, but when I do finally quit I definitely want people saying, 'Wow, now that guy got canned!'.
A few years ago, the company I worked at was purchased and they proceeded to fire my whole department (~100 people). So one of the fired employees says goodbye to everyone, calmly steps out the door, and sets an SVP's car on fire. It was glorious.
That's a way to go out in a blaze of glory. But I'm wondering about your user name...is it far from early retirement or far from burning a VP's car?
Both, unfortunately. Retirement is 10-12 years away, and I suspect that I should be at that FU money stage before setting fire to anything.
I have had to tell him off when he decided to wear thongs to a club because of their dress code.
I think a translation is needed here.
Thongs is Australian for flip-flops (Thanks Quora, just read this there).
Sydneystache, Thongs in American is extremely minimalist underwear. Do a google search and see the images ;-)
A Thong is the underwear, Thongs is a pair of flip flops. I fortunately did not confuse the two on first reading.
If your buddy is wearing thongs, the underwear, it might defeat the purpose :-)
Signs as--- Temporary Deputy Grammar Sheriff.
I dress very casually on occasion and have gotten looks like that on occasion. No one has ever refused me service though.I've pull out large amounts, dressed in a old biker jacket, nary a blink, didn't even ask for photo ID (had a bank card).
On the other hand, having $1M+ in a bank savings account is not very mustachian.
It was going to a cashier's check and I think I had to sign for it.
$1M might be a small fraction of his stuff (cash allocation)?
I think he had $8M with the bank altogether. The manager at the new bank says "first" check:Quote"The first check he brought me was for $1 million,"
I got the story via /r/MaliciousCompliance (https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/633zlj/parking_validation_requires_a_transaction/). I like that version a little better and it has more details.QuoteSorry if this is a repeat. I just stumbled across this sub and immediately thought of a story I read in the Spokane Spokesman-Review about 30 years ago. I looked for the original, but could only find this Washington Post article
The original article had many more satisfying details, and it's likely my memory has added some. For example, I remember the parking fee being 50 cents, not 60.
Anyway, weathered looking guy wearing old jeans and a wrinkled shirt had just cashed a check at a downtown Spokane bank. Spokane had paid parking, but you could get your ticket validated at downtown businesses. With enough validation, parking was free.
As he's leaving, he remembers he didn't get his parking stub validated. He gets back in line and asks the teller to validate the stub.
"I'm sorry, sir, we only validate with a transaction."
He explains he was just here and shows her the receipt. She won't budge. He asks to speak to an upper level bank exec by name. "I'm sorry, sir, he's too busy."
He asks for a manger, explains, and again asks for the upper level exec by name. The manager explains that he's in a meeting and that the customer should leave.
The guy says, "If I make a transaction, you'll validate the ticket?" Yep.
"I'd like to close my account."
The teller gets a snarky look and starts complying, only to have her face fall as she pulls up the details. Suddenly, they are all apologetic and go to get the exec he'd asked for.
He's just as firm as they were and insists he wants his account closed. I recall it being around $8 million.
He took the cashiers checks, walked across the street and opened a new account at a competing bank, after getting his parking validated.
The bank changed their policy. They would validate parking sans transaction.
I dress very casually on occasion and have gotten looks like that on occasion. No one has ever refused me service though.
On the other hand, having $1M+ in a bank savings account is not very mustachian.
filched from other social media: "one of the most inspiring things i’ve ever seen was my co-worker quitting on the spot over an argument and proceeding to purposely make eye contact with my manager as she walked out of the fire exit, making the entire stores alarm go off. it’s was on a level of spite i can only dream of achieving."
Only if she worked at JoAnn Fabrics ;-Pfilched from other social media: "one of the most inspiring things i’ve ever seen was my co-worker quitting on the spot over an argument and proceeding to purposely make eye contact with my manager as she walked out of the fire exit, making the entire stores alarm go off. it’s was on a level of spite i can only dream of achieving."
Seams very appropriate :)
Only if she worked at JoAnn Fabrics ;-Pfilched from other social media: "one of the most inspiring things i’ve ever seen was my co-worker quitting on the spot over an argument and proceeding to purposely make eye contact with my manager as she walked out of the fire exit, making the entire stores alarm go off. it’s was on a level of spite i can only dream of achieving."
Seams very appropriate :)
Only if she worked at JoAnn Fabrics ;-Pfilched from other social media: "one of the most inspiring things i’ve ever seen was my co-worker quitting on the spot over an argument and proceeding to purposely make eye contact with my manager as she walked out of the fire exit, making the entire stores alarm go off. it’s was on a level of spite i can only dream of achieving."
Seams very appropriate :)
Your pun has me in stitches.
Only if she worked at JoAnn Fabrics ;-Pfilched from other social media: "one of the most inspiring things i’ve ever seen was my co-worker quitting on the spot over an argument and proceeding to purposely make eye contact with my manager as she walked out of the fire exit, making the entire stores alarm go off. it’s was on a level of spite i can only dream of achieving."
Seams very appropriate :)
Your pun has me in stitches.
If you cross your fingers after surgery you'll heal faster. Or maybe it's just super-stitchin.
And no more puns on this topic or the thread count will get too high.Only if she worked at JoAnn Fabrics ;-Pfilched from other social media: "one of the most inspiring things i’ve ever seen was my co-worker quitting on the spot over an argument and proceeding to purposely make eye contact with my manager as she walked out of the fire exit, making the entire stores alarm go off. it’s was on a level of spite i can only dream of achieving."
Seams very appropriate :)
Your pun has me in stitches.
If you cross your fingers after surgery you'll heal faster. Or maybe it's just super-stitchin.
We're supposed to be polite to one another. Stop needling people over their mistakes!
Time to stop hemming and hawing and get back on topic.And no more puns on this topic or the thread count will get too high.Only if she worked at JoAnn Fabrics ;-Pfilched from other social media: "one of the most inspiring things i’ve ever seen was my co-worker quitting on the spot over an argument and proceeding to purposely make eye contact with my manager as she walked out of the fire exit, making the entire stores alarm go off. it’s was on a level of spite i can only dream of achieving."
Seams very appropriate :)
Your pun has me in stitches.
If you cross your fingers after surgery you'll heal faster. Or maybe it's just super-stitchin.
We're supposed to be polite to one another. Stop needling people over their mistakes!
There is a middle ground between "putting up with all the crap" and "FU NOW"
How about just acting as if he has FU money? Boss goes on a rant? Just walk out and go do the training. Customer is crap? Don't put up with unreasonable demands. Etc.
Empowering.
Replying mostly to follow, but also to say that I WISH we had FU money at the moment, or as we call it, a Rage Quit Fund.
DH recently left a job at the company we both worked for (I still work there). He got a job with a huge international company that included a 59% pay increase and a sign-on bonus. He's worked there for 5 whole weeks, and it's been crap the entire time. Not enough training, bosses treating him like crap, terrible customers, on and on. He desperately wants to quit, and has had his finger on the resignation button for almost two weeks now.
Unfortunately, we don't have a huge cash cushion to support him leaving. If he quits in less than a year, he'll have to pay back the bonus, including the 40% or so taxes that were taken out (so basically, we'd have to pay out of our small savings to have him quit). But that savings is really the only savings we have to survive for a short time without his paycheck until he finds a new job. I've tried to convince him to stay on at least long enough to save up the money to repay the bonus, but he's not sure he can last that long (it'll take a good couple of months to earn it back, even with the huge raise).
We've been on a huge "pay down the debt" kick for the last two years, and have managed to pay off a ton (probably like $45,000), but the other side of that is that we haven't been saving because I've been shoveling all the extra money towards debt. Situations like this make me really question my financial plan and Dave Ramsey's stupid mini-emergency fund.
Situations like this make me really question my financial plan and Dave Ramsey's stupid mini-emergency fund.
I also agree with TomTX. Most jobs can become much less stressful when you just stop caring about what your coworkers and boss think.
Replying mostly to follow, but also to say that I WISH we had FU money at the moment, or as we call it, a Rage Quit Fund.
DH recently left a job at the company we both worked for (I still work there). He got a job with a huge international company that included a 59% pay increase and a sign-on bonus. He's worked there for 5 whole weeks, and it's been crap the entire time. Not enough training, bosses treating him like crap, terrible customers, on and on. He desperately wants to quit, and has had his finger on the resignation button for almost two weeks now.
Unfortunately, we don't have a huge cash cushion to support him leaving. If he quits in less than a year, he'll have to pay back the bonus, including the 40% or so taxes that were taken out (so basically, we'd have to pay out of our small savings to have him quit). But that savings is really the only savings we have to survive for a short time without his paycheck until he finds a new job. I've tried to convince him to stay on at least long enough to save up the money to repay the bonus, but he's not sure he can last that long (it'll take a good couple of months to earn it back, even with the huge raise).
We've been on a huge "pay down the debt" kick for the last two years, and have managed to pay off a ton (probably like $45,000), but the other side of that is that we haven't been saving because I've been shoveling all the extra money towards debt. Situations like this make me really question my financial plan and Dave Ramsey's stupid mini-emergency fund.
Replying mostly to follow, but also to say that I WISH we had FU money at the moment, or as we call it, a Rage Quit Fund.
DH recently left a job at the company we both worked for (I still work there). He got a job with a huge international company that included a 59% pay increase and a sign-on bonus. He's worked there for 5 whole weeks, and it's been crap the entire time. Not enough training, bosses treating him like crap, terrible customers, on and on. He desperately wants to quit, and has had his finger on the resignation button for almost two weeks now.
Unfortunately, we don't have a huge cash cushion to support him leaving. If he quits in less than a year, he'll have to pay back the bonus, including the 40% or so taxes that were taken out (so basically, we'd have to pay out of our small savings to have him quit). But that savings is really the only savings we have to survive for a short time without his paycheck until he finds a new job. I've tried to convince him to stay on at least long enough to save up the money to repay the bonus, but he's not sure he can last that long (it'll take a good couple of months to earn it back, even with the huge raise).
We've been on a huge "pay down the debt" kick for the last two years, and have managed to pay off a ton (probably like $45,000), but the other side of that is that we haven't been saving because I've been shoveling all the extra money towards debt. Situations like this make me really question my financial plan and Dave Ramsey's stupid mini-emergency fund.
I just want to make sure you realize that unless explicitly stated in the employment contract, you DON'T have to pay back the company for the taxes on the bonus. The company is trying to make it easier for themselves and pushing the admin, paperwork, and tax filings onto you. The company is acting as an escrow situation for your income taxes. The money they took out for taxes should be refunded in this case. E.g. if the bonus was $10k, but you only received $7k and $3k was withheld for taxes, you should only have to pay back the $7k and the $3k would be removed from the payroll taxes the company pays to the fed gov. If you were told something else, I'd just tell them to pound sand after quitting and giving back the $7k portion.
Note - this only applies if the final paycheck is less than the amount you have to pay back. In the above example, if your final paycheck is $5k, you'd just write a check to the company for $2k
Situations like this make me really question my financial plan and Dave Ramsey's stupid mini-emergency fund.
You're on the MMM forums now, you can (and should) leave the terrible advice of Dave Ramsey behind. Here is a simplified order that you should be prioritizing your extra money (https://i.imgur.com/fb7Dtmh.png) (from /r/personalfinance on reddit). Notice that a 3-6 month emergency fund is before everything else. There is a more advanced order of prioritization on the forums here (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/investment-order/msg1333153/#msg1333153). Again, starts with an emergency fund to your satisfaction. And only then paying down high interest debts after that. Your lower interest debts should wait until you have maxed every tax advantaged account available.
I also agree with TomTX. Most jobs can become much less stressful when you just stop caring about what your coworkers and boss think.
I don't think it's epic, but it is a FU story...
A couple Friday's back I got my pink slip due to a RIF of 30% of the company. My first reaction was to ask my boss for a letter of reference, which he said he'd give me. Immediately after my boss gave me the pink slip he gave me a contract offering to bring me back on as a independent contractor - doing the same job at the same price as a my previous job. Sounds awesome, right? Wrong! The contract wouldn't cover benefits or half of the FICA! This ends up being a 30% hit in salary if I want to take any vacation - and puts my unemployment benefits in jeopardy! Pppft! What a crappy awful deal that only benefits them! They knew it - no question in my mind.
Fast forward a few days of my lamenting weather or not to take the contract gig (it is money after all). I eventually try to negotiate a better hourly rate and a severance that makes up for my potential loss of unemployment benefits. They don't want me that bad! Shocker! NOT! I tell them that I'd rather continue with the layoff as originally intended.
I start clearing my things. And my bosses boss wants to talk to me. The tool starts giving me a sob story about how he was trying to give me a 'soft landing' and how he had a hard time getting me the contract offer to begin with and how it was a good deal... blah, blah, blah. I think he was trying to change my mind. I took a deep breath and thanks to my mustachian/frugal ways I told him something along the lines of, "I don't need this job. In fact, I have never needed this job since the day I walked in the door. I came to work because I liked my pay, I liked the work, and I liked *most* of the people, but today I need this job less than the first day I started working here." I basically told him to shove the job up his ass. That felt good. I don't think he believed what I was telling him.
As I walked out the door for the last time, my boss hands me a letter of recommendation.
Unfortunately, two of my coworkers took the contract deal. They are getting screwed, and I'm not sure they even know it. I'm guessing they are not in a position where they can tell their boss to shove it up their ass. So sad.
Good on you COEE! (And -- if you feel like it -- you could let the DOL know what they are up to . . . )
That reminds me of a day at my last employer when I mentioned I had a flight planned (IIRC it was for a family funeral), and a coworker asked if I already had the time off approved. I said no, but it didn't really matter because I'd just go anyway. The stunned look on her face was priceless.
Good on you COEE! (And -- if you feel like it -- you could let the DOL know what they are up to . . . )
Exactly what I was thinking. I'd have been tempted to accept their offer and immediately report to the DOL. What's the worst they can do, fire you...again and get completely screwed by the DOL?
Good on you COEE! (And -- if you feel like it -- you could let the DOL know what they are up to . . . )
Exactly what I was thinking. I'd have been tempted to accept their offer and immediately report to the DOL. What's the worst they can do, fire you...again and get completely screwed by the DOL?
Why do you think I agonized about what whether or not to take the contract work?
Also, Let's just say I don't think the fat lady has finished singing.
-- There are some new federal minimum salaries for many exempt employees (~$47k) and some employers don't know about it, or just aren't complying
-- There are some new federal minimum salaries for many exempt employees (~$47k) and some employers don't know about it, or just aren't complying
Wait, so if you make less than ~$47k/year, your employer probably needs to make you hourly and pay overtime?
-- There are some new federal minimum salaries for many exempt employees (~$47k) and some employers don't know about it, or just aren't complying
Wait, so if you make less than ~$47k/year, your employer probably needs to make you hourly and pay overtime?
Good on you COEE! (And -- if you feel like it -- you could let the DOL know what they are up to . . . )
Exactly what I was thinking. I'd have been tempted to accept their offer and immediately report to the DOL. What's the worst they can do, fire you...again and get completely screwed by the DOL?
Why do you think I agonized about what whether or not to take the contract work?
Also, Let's just say I don't think the fat lady has finished singing.
:)
One thing about DOL audits -- they come in to look at one thing, and often end up seeing other issues too. Some common ones:
-- Misclassifying employees as salaried/exempt from overtime (when really they are hourly/non-exempt). The definitions are NOT straightforward/intuitive, and this type of misclassification happens all the time.
-- Failure to pay overtime to people who were due it. Say the employer had someone misclassified as exempt for years, but the employee was consistently working over 40 hours a week. The DOL goes back and makes the employer fork over the time-and-a-half for the whole time the employee was misclassified (up to two or three years), plus fines
-- There are some new federal minimum salaries for many exempt employees (~$47k) and some employers don't know about it, or just aren't complying
Having a really shitty day at work right now... would love to hear some more stories if anyone has one!
About six months later he stops by and mentions accounting is checking the cell phone bills and there has been zero activity on this number and he shows me the bill with what I guess is my cell's phone number.That's a brilliant story! Thanks for sharing!
I reach down and pull out the box still sitting in my drawer and ask him if this is that phone. He asks me why I'm not using it. I told him I said I'd use it when he drafted up rules for when they could and couldn't call me.
Needless to say there were rules drafted later that day, but still it made for a great story that still makes me laugh today!
Having a really shitty day at work right now... would love to hear some more stories if anyone has one!
^I used to call that kind of stuff poison pumpkins (after the Pumpkin Plan book, which I haven't read, but I get the idea from the quick summary provided by my brother.) Now I'm going to start calling them RSR's.
^I used to call that kind of stuff poison pumpkins (after the Pumpkin Plan book, which I haven't read, but I get the idea from the quick summary provided by my brother.) Now I'm going to start calling them RSR's.
What would be examples of RSR so shitty as to make your job miserable?
^I used to call that kind of stuff poison pumpkins (after the Pumpkin Plan book, which I haven't read, but I get the idea from the quick summary provided by my brother.) Now I'm going to start calling them RSR's.
What would be examples of RSR so shitty as to make your job miserable?
love this! It's even better than an FU story. It's a "noBS" story.QuoteAbout six months later he stops by and mentions accounting is checking the cell phone bills and there has been zero activity on this number and he shows me the bill with what I guess is my cell's phone number.That's a brilliant story! Thanks for sharing!
I reach down and pull out the box still sitting in my drawer and ask him if this is that phone. He asks me why I'm not using it. I told him I said I'd use it when he drafted up rules for when they could and couldn't call me.
Needless to say there were rules drafted later that day, but still it made for a great story that still makes me laugh today!
A couple Friday's back I got my pink slip due to a RIF of 30% of the company. My first reaction was to ask my boss for a letter of reference, which he said he'd give me. Immediately after my boss gave me the pink slip he gave me a contract offering to bring me back on as a independent contractor - doing the same job at the same price as a my previous job.
[snip]
Unfortunately, two of my coworkers took the contract deal. They are getting screwed, and I'm not sure they even know it. I'm guessing they are not in a position where they can tell their boss to shove it up their ass. So sad.
It's clear that some management has the viewpoint that there is always someone else willing to step in and fill the job, so why keep current employees (even top performers) happy? This is a terrible business philosophy, of course, but I see it more and more.I agree, there is some of that element. At the other end of the spectrum, there are others that will keep someone around who does little or nothing, because finding someone to replace that person is too much trouble. Neither is good!
The last time I had a boss who declared that she needed to give "approval" for any of my time off, I would just call in sick instead.
My boss was a complete jerk about my having a random day off on the school holidays. I had spent a small fortune on tickets for a musical for all of us (4). He wasn't going to approve my leave. The office manager convinced him to allow it as I already had the tickets. Apparently I was taking advantage of him. I decided then that any random days off I need, I'll be calling in sick. No one will be put out by my not being there. Maybe someone might have to take a message but seriously, i get maybe one phone call a month if I'm lucky. I work via email. My work is not generally time sensitive. The only reason for him to be like this is that he's a control freak.
The last time I had a boss who declared that she needed to give "approval" for any of my time off, I would just call in sick instead.
My boss was a complete jerk about my having a random day off on the school holidays. I had spent a small fortune on tickets for a musical for all of us (4). He wasn't going to approve my leave. The office manager convinced him to allow it as I already had the tickets. Apparently I was taking advantage of him. I decided then that any random days off I need, I'll be calling in sick. No one will be put out by my not being there. Maybe someone might have to take a message but seriously, i get maybe one phone call a month if I'm lucky. I work via email. My work is not generally time sensitive. The only reason for him to be like this is that he's a control freak.The last time I had a boss who declared that she needed to give "approval" for any of my time off, I would just call in sick instead.
In the USA is sick leave and annual leave come out of the same days off? Like you just get four weeks off per year and can use it how ever you want?
I don't know how to word my question properly, but in Australia for example you get a minimum four weeks annual leave and two weeks sick/carers leave, they aren't really interchangeable though. Though if you run out of sick leave you can sometimes use your annual leave for it.
But at every place I have worked, annual leave needs permission, sick leave is what you would just call in and take off as required.
My boss was a complete jerk about my having a random day off on the school holidays. I had spent a small fortune on tickets for a musical for all of us (4). He wasn't going to approve my leave. The office manager convinced him to allow it as I already had the tickets. Apparently I was taking advantage of him. I decided then that any random days off I need, I'll be calling in sick. No one will be put out by my not being there. Maybe someone might have to take a message but seriously, i get maybe one phone call a month if I'm lucky. I work via email. My work is not generally time sensitive. The only reason for him to be like this is that he's a control freak.The last time I had a boss who declared that she needed to give "approval" for any of my time off, I would just call in sick instead.
In the USA is sick leave and annual leave come out of the same days off? Like you just get four weeks off per year and can use it how ever you want?
I don't know how to word my question properly, but in Australia for example you get a minimum four weeks annual leave and two weeks sick/carers leave, they aren't really interchangeable though. Though if you run out of sick leave you can sometimes use your annual leave for it.
But at every place I have worked, annual leave needs permission, sick leave is what you would just call in and take off as required.
It depends on the job. Some places have separate sick and annual leave pools while others combine them into PTO.
Paid Time Off. They pool the sick leave and vacation together. Usually it is a bit less than the sum would have been.
^I used to call that kind of stuff poison pumpkins (after the Pumpkin Plan book, which I haven't read, but I get the idea from the quick summary provided by my brother.) Now I'm going to start calling them RSR's.
What would be examples of RSR so shitty as to make your job miserable?
It definitely depends on the industry. My mom works at a hospital, for sick leave you practically need a doctor's note. Vacation and holidays you need advance approval.Paid Time Off. They pool the sick leave and vacation together. Usually it is a bit less than the sum would have been.
Oh ok makes sense.
That's one of the reasons DH is still working. He earns 2.7 vacation days per month. A typical month is 18 working days. Overtime is completely optional; he only takes it when he needs it to complete a specific project. He takes his compensation in PTO/Comp Time. He recently did a project which required two non-consecutive weekend days. He netted a week of PTO for his efforts. He's never called in sick in his career, thanks to PTO. Sick days accrue until retirement. They don't pay it out, exactly. Once you declare retirement, you can stop working and start using up your sick days, getting paid at your current rate. This allows you to continue to stay on the company health plan, avoid a lump-sum payout, and unbelievably, continue to accrue vacation hours. Amaze-balls!It definitely depends on the industry. My mom works at a hospital, for sick leave you practically need a doctor's note. Vacation and holidays you need advance approval.Paid Time Off. They pool the sick leave and vacation together. Usually it is a bit less than the sum would have been.
Oh ok makes sense.
I'm an engineer, I get PPL (paid personal leave, which is just another name for PTO), and as long as I get my work done, I can take PPL whenever I want with little to no notice.
My boss was a complete jerk about my having a random day off on the school holidays. I had spent a small fortune on tickets for a musical for all of us (4). He wasn't going to approve my leave. The office manager convinced him to allow it as I already had the tickets. Apparently I was taking advantage of him. I decided then that any random days off I need, I'll be calling in sick. No one will be put out by my not being there. Maybe someone might have to take a message but seriously, i get maybe one phone call a month if I'm lucky. I work via email. My work is not generally time sensitive. The only reason for him to be like this is that he's a control freak.
My boss was a complete jerk about my having a random day off on the school holidays. I had spent a small fortune on tickets for a musical for all of us (4). He wasn't going to approve my leave. The office manager convinced him to allow it as I already had the tickets. Apparently I was taking advantage of him. I decided then that any random days off I need, I'll be calling in sick. No one will be put out by my not being there. Maybe someone might have to take a message but seriously, i get maybe one phone call a month if I'm lucky. I work via email. My work is not generally time sensitive. The only reason for him to be like this is that he's a control freak.
This kind of reminds me of a couple years ago where I had to take my dog to the vet so I used sick leave.
I was honest about it, and said that was the reason, and my supervisor threw a fit about how I couldn't use sick leave for that purpose. Had I just not said anything though, she would have been none the wiser and approved it.
So now I just keep my mouth shut. In fact, in general, I've learned that in the workplace it's probably best not to be forthcoming with personal information.
This kind of reminds me of a couple years ago where I had to take my dog to the vet so I used sick leave.Employers can be crazy on the "rules". Where I work they allow you to donate sick leave to other workers (as well you can use it to take care of family members). So about 6 years ago my co-worker buddy "R" was going to get surgery where he couldn't drive and would need therapy multiple times a week. So I was going to pick him up on the way to work, and then leave an hour early on therapy days to drop him off at the therapist (his wife would pick him up later).
I was honest about it, and said that was the reason, and my supervisor threw a fit about how I couldn't use sick leave for that purpose. Had I just not said anything though, she would have been none the wiser and approved it.
So now I just keep my mouth shut. In fact, in general, I've learned that in the workplace it's probably best not to be forthcoming with personal information.
It took me a really long time to stop trying to "fix" what's broken in places like this and just do my own thing and keep quiet about it.This kind of reminds me of a couple years ago where I had to take my dog to the vet so I used sick leave.Employers can be crazy on the "rules". Where I work they allow you to donate sick leave to other workers (as well you can use it to take care of family members). So about 6 years ago my co-worker buddy "R" was going to get surgery where he couldn't drive and would need therapy multiple times a week. So I was going to pick him up on the way to work, and then leave an hour early on therapy days to drop him off at the therapist (his wife would pick him up later).
I was honest about it, and said that was the reason, and my supervisor threw a fit about how I couldn't use sick leave for that purpose. Had I just not said anything though, she would have been none the wiser and approved it.
So now I just keep my mouth shut. In fact, in general, I've learned that in the workplace it's probably best not to be forthcoming with personal information.
So I apply to donate sick time for the days I would be leaving work early to take him to therapy. Sorry, no can do, that's not allowed. You can donate sick leave, but you can't use sick leave to help a co-worker. After being in a meeting with my buddy and some higher ups apologizing and saying they would look into what else could be done, I finally say forget it I will just use my annual leave on the days I leave early for him. Afterwards R comes up to me and looks worried about what I said in the meeting. I tell him not to worry about it, if I feel the need, I will just call in sick on a day I want to take off, and everything will be the same in the end, except now they can feel great about following the rules.
So yeah, I have learned to be quiet in certain situations. It doesn't help anything when they are crazy about the rules.
Yes. I'm exempt. At a job long ago and far away, I worked long hours. And if I needed to leave early, or go to the doctor, I didn't take vacation or sick time ... why would I? Back then, I easily worked 45-47 hours a week. Our time card system (because we charged to contracts) was online. It only cared if the total was 80 in 2 weeks. Back then, sick time was separate, and unlimited.It took me a really long time to stop trying to "fix" what's broken in places like this and just do my own thing and keep quiet about it.This kind of reminds me of a couple years ago where I had to take my dog to the vet so I used sick leave.Employers can be crazy on the "rules". Where I work they allow you to donate sick leave to other workers (as well you can use it to take care of family members). So about 6 years ago my co-worker buddy "R" was going to get surgery where he couldn't drive and would need therapy multiple times a week. So I was going to pick him up on the way to work, and then leave an hour early on therapy days to drop him off at the therapist (his wife would pick him up later).
I was honest about it, and said that was the reason, and my supervisor threw a fit about how I couldn't use sick leave for that purpose. Had I just not said anything though, she would have been none the wiser and approved it.
So now I just keep my mouth shut. In fact, in general, I've learned that in the workplace it's probably best not to be forthcoming with personal information.
So I apply to donate sick time for the days I would be leaving work early to take him to therapy. Sorry, no can do, that's not allowed. You can donate sick leave, but you can't use sick leave to help a co-worker. After being in a meeting with my buddy and some higher ups apologizing and saying they would look into what else could be done, I finally say forget it I will just use my annual leave on the days I leave early for him. Afterwards R comes up to me and looks worried about what I said in the meeting. I tell him not to worry about it, if I feel the need, I will just call in sick on a day I want to take off, and everything will be the same in the end, except now they can feel great about following the rules.
So yeah, I have learned to be quiet in certain situations. It doesn't help anything when they are crazy about the rules.
So now I just keep my mouth shut. In fact, in general, I've learned that in the workplace it's probably best not to be forthcoming with personal information.
So now I just keep my mouth shut. In fact, in general, I've learned that in the workplace it's probably best not to be forthcoming with personal information.
This is so true. The more you tell people, the more ammunition they have against you, even if you've done nothing wrong. It's amazing how people twist things for their own benefit or just because their favorite pastime is Being Offended.
It's also helpful to keep your mouth shut if you want to look really smart. I have a friend who's a neurosurgeon who thinks I'm super smart simply because when we were in school together, I only spoke up if I was 100% sure I knew the right answer, while other people just blurted out whatever came to mind for every question.
. . . .
This kind of reminds me of a couple years ago where I had to take my dog to the vet so I used sick leave.
I was honest about it, and said that was the reason, and my supervisor threw a fit about how I couldn't use sick leave for that purpose. Had I just not said anything though, she would have been none the wiser and approved it.
So now I just keep my mouth shut. In fact, in general, I've learned that in the workplace it's probably best not to be forthcoming with personal information.
This kind of reminds me of a couple years ago where I had to take my dog to the vet so I used sick leave.
I was honest about it, and said that was the reason, and my supervisor threw a fit about how I couldn't use sick leave for that purpose. Had I just not said anything though, she would have been none the wiser and approved it.
So now I just keep my mouth shut. In fact, in general, I've learned that in the workplace it's probably best not to be forthcoming with personal information.
Sick leave probably has a specific definition of what it is intended for. If taking your animal to the vet does not fall under the definition, then you should not have done what you did.
Having a really shitty day at work right now... would love to hear some more stories if anyone has one!
I'll give you one too. This one might even help you out...
A few months back my direct manager mentioned to me that he wanted me to take on a Really Shitty Responsibility (RSR) on top of my current work load. I've watched this specific RSR make three of my peers leave the company/leave the work group. I obviously wanted nothing to do with this RSR and it looked like I didn't really have a choice. I had pre-aligned with my DW that I'd leave the company if I got RSR. Before he had the change to formally give me the RSR, I had a conversation with the executive sponsor (ES) on the company's largest project which I am working on and kinda-sorta dotted line report to him. I told the ES that I was getting the RSR and that while I really enjoyed working on the large project and at the company, I probably wouldn't last at the company for very long after I got the RSR. He had personally saw what the RSR did to two out of the three other peers and understood completely.
Within a week, ES went to the CEO of the company and stated that one of his major project risks was needing to keep me focused on the large project. The CEO gave direction to my direct management to NOT give me the RSR. To this day my manager hasn't a clue that I influenced the ES to make this happen.
Morals of the story:
-Don't be afraid to walk away from a job once you have a level of FU money.
-There is typically someone around you in the organization that has interests that align with yours, learn to leverage them.
I apologize for the boasting but I can't exactly talk about this anywhere else.This just made my day. Thanks for sharing!
It turns out that there was a second part to this story that I didn't realize at the time. Fast forward to today, my manager unexpectedly gives me a large, off cycle raise. Apparently, when my line leadership got wind that I might leave they decided to throw more money at me as a retention plan even though I didn't have a competing offer.
So ... I avoided the RSR and was given more money?? Turns out that's one of the many benefits of FU money...
Yup. Funny I don't consider stating facts, particularly in this context, boasting. Carry on, good Liberty Stache. And congratulations on that raise. You know what to do with it. Feel free to share the details if you wish. That won't be considered boasting here, either.I apologize for the boasting but I can't exactly talk about this anywhere else.This just made my day. Thanks for sharing!
It turns out that there was a second part to this story that I didn't realize at the time. Fast forward to today, my manager unexpectedly gives me a large, off cycle raise. Apparently, when my line leadership got wind that I might leave they decided to throw more money at me as a retention plan even though I didn't have a competing offer.
So ... I avoided the RSR and was given more money?? Turns out that's one of the many benefits of FU money...
Not epic, but still a little bit exciting.
A couple months ago, I asked my boss at Domino's to take me off the schedule, as I have a house to remodel, and over full-time projects at my day job. I told him that I'd be available to come in if they had someone call in sick and they couldn't find anyone else.
They called me a couple days ago to come in; it didn't conflict with what I had going on, so I agreed. About an hour into the shift, the shift manager asked which of us closers (me and the other scheduled closing driver) was going to drive the company car....
The company car. This franchise has a company car, which the owner requires to be driven daily. It's terrible. Relatively uncomfortable, no cupholder large enough for my drink, no flashlight/spotlight for finding house numbers in the dark, TINTED WINDOWS (seriously, who puts tinted windows in a late-night pizza delivery vehicle?), and no mileage reimbursement (important, since I drive a Civic and actually make money on this). AND, the last time I drove it, I had two separate orders of pizza slip off the seat onto the floor (no, I wasn't braking hard); I already hated driving it, but after that incident, I decided I was not driving it again.
I calmly told her that I was not going to drive it (citing the most relevant-to-the-business reason of "I'm not driving a car that throws pizzas off the seat; that's bad customer service"). I thought about it as I was refusing-- what's the worst that can happen? They cut my hours...to what, zero? I'm already there. They fire me....and then the whole closing shift is screwed over by being shorthanded? I don't have to be there, but they need me.
It's not because I have enough money in the bank to not need a job, but being in a position where my other job is already giving me over full-time hours, meant I had power to make this job not suck. Seriously, though-- delivering pizzas is fun. Driving the company car is...not fun.
Epilogue...they also called me the next day, and the shift manager, in trying to convince me to come in, specifically said "I promise I won't ask you to drive the company car."
I did. The money's not bad (ends up netting about $15/hr), and it's fun... at least when I'm not being made to do stupid stuff. I'm still on call for them, and they *love* me-- seriously, they act like I'm some kind of returning messiah when I come in.Not epic, but still a little bit exciting.
A couple months ago, I asked my boss at Domino's to take me off the schedule, as I have a house to remodel, and over full-time projects at my day job. I told him that I'd be available to come in if they had someone call in sick and they couldn't find anyone else.
They called me a couple days ago to come in; it didn't conflict with what I had going on, so I agreed. About an hour into the shift, the shift manager asked which of us closers (me and the other scheduled closing driver) was going to drive the company car....
The company car. This franchise has a company car, which the owner requires to be driven daily. It's terrible. Relatively uncomfortable, no cupholder large enough for my drink, no flashlight/spotlight for finding house numbers in the dark, TINTED WINDOWS (seriously, who puts tinted windows in a late-night pizza delivery vehicle?), and no mileage reimbursement (important, since I drive a Civic and actually make money on this). AND, the last time I drove it, I had two separate orders of pizza slip off the seat onto the floor (no, I wasn't braking hard); I already hated driving it, but after that incident, I decided I was not driving it again.
I calmly told her that I was not going to drive it (citing the most relevant-to-the-business reason of "I'm not driving a car that throws pizzas off the seat; that's bad customer service"). I thought about it as I was refusing-- what's the worst that can happen? They cut my hours...to what, zero? I'm already there. They fire me....and then the whole closing shift is screwed over by being shorthanded? I don't have to be there, but they need me.
It's not because I have enough money in the bank to not need a job, but being in a position where my other job is already giving me over full-time hours, meant I had power to make this job not suck. Seriously, though-- delivering pizzas is fun. Driving the company car is...not fun.
Epilogue...they also called me the next day, and the shift manager, in trying to convince me to come in, specifically said "I promise I won't ask you to drive the company car."
Great story. Did you go back? Would you go back in the future?
I did. The money's not bad (ends up netting about $15/hr), and it's fun... at least when I'm not being made to do stupid stuff. I'm still on call for them, and they *love* me-- seriously, they act like I'm some kind of returning messiah when I come in.Not epic, but still a little bit exciting.
A couple months ago, I asked my boss at Domino's to take me off the schedule, as I have a house to remodel, and over full-time projects at my day job. I told him that I'd be available to come in if they had someone call in sick and they couldn't find anyone else.
They called me a couple days ago to come in; it didn't conflict with what I had going on, so I agreed. About an hour into the shift, the shift manager asked which of us closers (me and the other scheduled closing driver) was going to drive the company car....
The company car. This franchise has a company car, which the owner requires to be driven daily. It's terrible. Relatively uncomfortable, no cupholder large enough for my drink, no flashlight/spotlight for finding house numbers in the dark, TINTED WINDOWS (seriously, who puts tinted windows in a late-night pizza delivery vehicle?), and no mileage reimbursement (important, since I drive a Civic and actually make money on this). AND, the last time I drove it, I had two separate orders of pizza slip off the seat onto the floor (no, I wasn't braking hard); I already hated driving it, but after that incident, I decided I was not driving it again.
I calmly told her that I was not going to drive it (citing the most relevant-to-the-business reason of "I'm not driving a car that throws pizzas off the seat; that's bad customer service"). I thought about it as I was refusing-- what's the worst that can happen? They cut my hours...to what, zero? I'm already there. They fire me....and then the whole closing shift is screwed over by being shorthanded? I don't have to be there, but they need me.
It's not because I have enough money in the bank to not need a job, but being in a position where my other job is already giving me over full-time hours, meant I had power to make this job not suck. Seriously, though-- delivering pizzas is fun. Driving the company car is...not fun.
Epilogue...they also called me the next day, and the shift manager, in trying to convince me to come in, specifically said "I promise I won't ask you to drive the company car."
Great story. Did you go back? Would you go back in the future?
I finally have an FU money story, not sure how epic it is...
I work in a regulated industry, we have numerous countries that send auditors to our site, as well as companies that audit to various ISO standards for use elsewhere in the world.
Last week, one of the auditing companies sent in an auditor that we've had visit us before, but this time was... different. First, he started talking politics. Like, obvious-what-his-views-were politics. And much like the complaints about professors pushing their political views on their students, we weren't really able to complain, since if you make an auditor cranky, you get lots of findings/observations/non-conformities.
Then it got worse. He threw out a couple of racist/xenophobic shots over the bow. Again, we can't say anything due to the power imbalance.
The FU money comes in today. I set up a meeting with my boss, and said that I think we should "fire" this auditor for his obvious misalignment with our company's values (the racism part, not the politics part), and regardless of what they do, I will not work another audit where he's the auditor. I knew there was a risk of being punished professionally for my refusal to work audits, since it's part of my core job function, but my FU money put me in the position to take a stand here.
My boss made the right noises, at least, about addressing this. What's important to me is that I can still look myself in the mirror tomorrow, and the FU money really helped with that.
I finally have an FU money story, not sure how epic it is...
I work in a regulated industry, we have numerous countries that send auditors to our site, as well as companies that audit to various ISO standards for use elsewhere in the world.
Last week, one of the auditing companies sent in an auditor that we've had visit us before, but this time was... different. First, he started talking politics. Like, obvious-what-his-views-were politics. And much like the complaints about professors pushing their political views on their students, we weren't really able to complain, since if you make an auditor cranky, you get lots of findings/observations/non-conformities.
Then it got worse. He threw out a couple of racist/xenophobic shots over the bow. Again, we can't say anything due to the power imbalance.
The FU money comes in today. I set up a meeting with my boss, and said that I think we should "fire" this auditor for his obvious misalignment with our company's values (the racism part, not the politics part), and regardless of what they do, I will not work another audit where he's the auditor. I knew there was a risk of being punished professionally for my refusal to work audits, since it's part of my core job function, but my FU money put me in the position to take a stand here.
My boss made the right noises, at least, about addressing this. What's important to me is that I can still look myself in the mirror tomorrow, and the FU money really helped with that.
....but my FU money put me in the position to take a stand here.
I'm not FI, but I do have an FU money type story!
I was working a job that was really burning me out...waking up at 4:00 every morning for a 3+ hour round trip commute to NYC and working 8-10 hours a day with special needs children. My boyfriend and I (now my husband) decided to quit our jobs and go teach English in Korea for a year. We signed our one year contracts for Korea, worked our last few weeks, and then went to Florida mid-winter to WWOOF (live and volunteer at) on an organic farm. What a change it was to go from a stressful city job in bleak winter to picking flowers all day and sleeping under an avocado tree! We lived virtually for free for that month prior to leaving for Korea. While in Korea, we went on trips every weekend and traveled to Thailand and Japan during our school breaks. We had free housing and managed to save enough money to spend 3 months traveling to India, Nepal, China, Tibet, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Malaysia after our contract ended. It was the best time of our lives!!! We even brought a dog home with us from Korea that we rescued from the meat trade (she's now 7!)
When we returned to the US, we were able to pay for our wedding and had enough money leftover still to sit around for 2 months while looking for jobs. We didn't make any money that year---but we didn't spend any of our savings either and had experiences that we wouldn't trade for anything!!!! I accepted a job offer across the country (the year off made no real dent in my ability to find a new job..) and we moved to our new home in Colorado without ever looking back! The decision to abandon our lives in NY for a little adventure was the best thing we've EVER done!!!
I'm not FI, but I do have an FU money type story!
I was working a job that was really burning me out...waking up at 4:00 every morning for a 3+ hour round trip commute to NYC and working 8-10 hours a day with special needs children. My boyfriend and I (now my husband) decided to quit our jobs and go teach English in Korea for a year. We signed our one year contracts for Korea, worked our last few weeks, and then went to Florida mid-winter to WWOOF (live and volunteer at) on an organic farm. What a change it was to go from a stressful city job in bleak winter to picking flowers all day and sleeping under an avocado tree! We lived virtually for free for that month prior to leaving for Korea. While in Korea, we went on trips every weekend and traveled to Thailand and Japan during our school breaks. We had free housing and managed to save enough money to spend 3 months traveling to India, Nepal, China, Tibet, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Malaysia after our contract ended. It was the best time of our lives!!! We even brought a dog home with us from Korea that we rescued from the meat trade (she's now 7!)
When we returned to the US, we were able to pay for our wedding and had enough money leftover still to sit around for 2 months while looking for jobs. We didn't make any money that year---but we didn't spend any of our savings either and had experiences that we wouldn't trade for anything!!!! I accepted a job offer across the country (the year off made no real dent in my ability to find a new job..) and we moved to our new home in Colorado without ever looking back! The decision to abandon our lives in NY for a little adventure was the best thing we've EVER done!!!
Cross posting from the 2017 FIRE thread.Please share if/when you can! :)
Well I am a month away from my stated FIRE date. I am not sure if I will hit it, but I am definitely trying to chart my escape path.
I am currently tapping into my FU reservoirs to try and right some recent wrongs at work. Will it turn into an epic FU money story? Only time will tell. This may slightly delay my FIRE date but will be well worth it life-satisfaction-wise.
Posting to follow and with a minor story of my own.Great job! I don't think it's minor - I'm sure your colleagues would've appreciated it too.
I work in aviation, and it is really common for employers to take advantage of low hour pilots - getting them to do unpaid labor, not always in exchange for flying hours, and certainly less than the legally mandated minimums.
I had 3 years off from aviation, being a SAHP, and I recently went back to work as a casual employee for a small flight school. This school is better than most wrt pay, but recently they sent out an email asking us to be rostered on for a day in the office, unpaid.
Because I didn't need this job, I was able to query this email (it was illegal, but the other guys there are pretty junior and didn't realise how bad it was and needed the experience more than I did) and shortly after sending my query, had some back tracking from the boss in terms of what he was wanting - which was now legal.
But you did the right thing. That's important.
Also, this story may not be over yet. In my experience, d**ks don't stop being d**ks just because HR talks to them.
But you did the right thing. That's important.
Also, this story may not be over yet. In my experience, d**ks don't stop being d**ks just because HR talks to them.
Cross posting from the 2017 FIRE thread again as it is FU money related.
I knew my mega-corp’s HR department would be appalled at how my d**k managers were treating someone with a cognitive disability and that this problem was localized to my department. All mention of the brain injury fell onto deaf ears with my d**k mangers. So, I decided to take the risk and go talk to HR and tell them what was happening. The HR person was appalled that my d**k managers had told me upon my return that I should avoid taking PTO to “show my dedication”. And that they totally downplayed my lead role on the project I was on right before the injury (even after having a great performance review on it). I was also threatened with a 2-level demotion (just to stick the knife in the wound). I also decided to throw in some other unsavory things going on in my department where people aren’t treated as professionals (grading people from A to F based on how many tests they write).
So HR person ended up talking to my direct manager and I was prepared for the fallout at this week’s “sync up” with the manager. I thought the manager would be upset. Then I thought it would be the perfect fodder to go the HR in a couple of weeks and say “just give me a buyout package because I can’t deal with these managers”. Rather, my manager’s attitude seems to have done a 180 after their “talk” with HR, who probably set them straight on the law. My manager was totally understanding and very nice this time around.
So now I am in a pickle. I decided to stand up for the disabled rights. I could have just taken the punishment, not gone to HR, and ended up getting laid off, but now it seems I have turned things around with my d**k managers (after HR probably scared them) and now I may not have grounds to go to HR and ask for a buyout package. And after managers are now being nice to me, I may feel obligated to continue on for a while.
But I really want to FIRE...and do it with a package.
...Or at least they are just scared of lawyers getting involved.
But you did the right thing. That's important.
Also, this story may not be over yet. In my experience, d**ks don't stop being d**ks just because HR talks to them.
But you did the right thing. That's important.
Also, this story may not be over yet. In my experience, d**ks don't stop being d**ks just because HR talks to them.
Yep, my dear wife successfully tackled the last 2/3rds of her thirty year teaching career with a traumatic brain injury. Sadly, when you are disabled, there is a small subset of subhumans that WILL kick you when you are down. Some of these bastards even get great joy in doing so.
The very real threat of damage to their career, or creating a legal shit-storm, is often your only protection. Believing that they have "seen the light" is only a delusion on your part. I would strongly suggest that you document to the point of being obsessive. My wife's last principal was one sick individual, who found a lot of satisfaction in making my wife's work life absolutely horrible. The big mistake the principal made was documenting some of her totally illegal abusive behavior and stupidly leaving a significant email trail. The wife had enough and scheduled a meeting with the district's HR director. We gave the HR guy an overview of what was going on, and decided to keep the evidence out of the discussion, just reviewing some key points. He clearly understood that an ADA lawyer would of thought they died and went to litigation heaven if they ever got their hands of that documentation. After he picked himself off the floor, he offered the wife a chance to leave a year early, with half pay, full benefits and a full year's pension credit. Since we had a nice stash, the money was no issue. Shortly after, the principal was demoted from a showplace, new eighty million dollar middle school to the smallest building in the district, in a remote location. A few years later, still delusional about her status with the district, she applied for, and fully expected to be chosen to replace the retiring assistant superintendent. Ouch, sorry but no love from management. The insider's bet is that the district will be closing her building, and showing her the door, as enrollment continue to drop. I'm quite sure that the DW played a significant part in torpedoing that bitch's career. Karma, can be a bitch......................
Oh, one more thing daisy, It's DICK. You're here, where the fucks fly, as required. Loosen up :)
But you did the right thing. That's important.
Also, this story may not be over yet. In my experience, d**ks don't stop being d**ks just because HR talks to them.
Yep, my dear wife successfully tackled the last 2/3rds of her thirty year teaching career with a traumatic brain injury. Sadly, when you are disabled, there is a small subset of subhumans that WILL kick you when you are down. Some of these bastards even get great joy in doing so.
The very real threat of damage to their career, or creating a legal shit-storm, is often your only protection. Believing that they have "seen the light" is only a delusion on your part. I would strongly suggest that you document to the point of being obsessive. My wife's last principal was one sick individual, who found a lot of satisfaction in making my wife's work life absolutely horrible. The big mistake the principal made was documenting some of her totally illegal abusive behavior and stupidly leaving a significant email trail. The wife had enough and scheduled a meeting with the district's HR director. We gave the HR guy an overview of what was going on, and decided to keep the evidence out of the discussion, just reviewing some key points. He clearly understood that an ADA lawyer would of thought they died and went to litigation heaven if they ever got their hands of that documentation. After he picked himself off the floor, he offered the wife a chance to leave a year early, with half pay, full benefits and a full year's pension credit. Since we had a nice stash, the money was no issue. Shortly after, the principal was demoted from a showplace, new eighty million dollar middle school to the smallest building in the district, in a remote location. A few years later, still delusional about her status with the district, she applied for, and fully expected to be chosen to replace the retiring assistant superintendent. Ouch, sorry but no love from management. The insider's bet is that the district will be closing her building, and showing her the door, as enrollment continue to drop. I'm quite sure that the DW played a significant part in torpedoing that bitch's career. Karma, can be a bitch......................
Oh, one more thing daisy, It's DICK. You're here, where the fucks fly, as required. Loosen up :)
I'm sorry this happened to your wife. It must have been very stressful for her. I have a brain injured colleague and I know it's been a struggle for her. Unfortunately, although no fault of the brain injured colleague's, it's also been a struggle for me. Management have changed her role to allow for her abilities by increasing mine, with no increase in pay or recognition or anything else that might make this situation easier to swallow. That could be why some of your wife's colleagues were dicks. I hope I'm only a dick to management, and not to my colleague!
I'm sorry to hear that you are in a totally different situation and shouldering an unfair burden. It isn't right. Toward the end of my DW's career, she finally relented and allowed her employer to provide an assistant. This was a low cost teacher's aide who did a lot of the physical stuff that she struggled with. It worked out really well. To be in a situation where somebody just can't perform their job, and expect others to take up the slack, essentially doing their work, is a whole other problem. I hope it works out for you.
I'm sorry to hear that you are in a totally different situation and shouldering an unfair burden. It isn't right. Toward the end of my DW's career, she finally relented and allowed her employer to provide an assistant. This was a low cost teacher's aide who did a lot of the physical stuff that she struggled with. It worked out really well. To be in a situation where somebody just can't perform their job, and expect others to take up the slack, essentially doing their work, is a whole other problem. I hope it works out for you.
My colleague has lost all ability to pay attention to detail. She's aware of this and struggling with tasks. I think we need to have a coffee and divide up the jobs between us, so neither of us are struggling, but I'm just a bit concerned that she may interpret this as a criticism or me trying to palm off the slightly more tedious jobs. We work as a unit, so either the unit gets things done or it doesn't - if one fails we sort of both fail so hopefully we can divvy things up in a more intelligent way than we are currently.
I'm sorry to hear that you are in a totally different situation and shouldering an unfair burden. It isn't right. Toward the end of my DW's career, she finally relented and allowed her employer to provide an assistant. This was a low cost teacher's aide who did a lot of the physical stuff that she struggled with. It worked out really well. To be in a situation where somebody just can't perform their job, and expect others to take up the slack, essentially doing their work, is a whole other problem. I hope it works out for you.
My colleague has lost all ability to pay attention to detail. She's aware of this and struggling with tasks. I think we need to have a coffee and divide up the jobs between us, so neither of us are struggling, but I'm just a bit concerned that she may interpret this as a criticism or me trying to palm off the slightly more tedious jobs. We work as a unit, so either the unit gets things done or it doesn't - if one fails we sort of both fail so hopefully we can divvy things up in a more intelligent way than we are currently.
She probably knows, and might well be desperate for a chat but embarrassed. I'd really encourage you to talk to her, but to think carefully about how you put it first. Maybe don't even mention her problems if you think it might upset her - just say that now you've had a bit of a re-org of responsibilities maybe you can have a chat about how it's working and see if there's anything either of you would like to swap. Then it's up to her to mention her disability if she wants to.
I'm sorry to hear that you are in a totally different situation and shouldering an unfair burden. It isn't right. Toward the end of my DW's career, she finally relented and allowed her employer to provide an assistant. This was a low cost teacher's aide who did a lot of the physical stuff that she struggled with. It worked out really well. To be in a situation where somebody just can't perform their job, and expect others to take up the slack, essentially doing their work, is a whole other problem. I hope it works out for you.
My colleague has lost all ability to pay attention to detail. She's aware of this and struggling with tasks. I think we need to have a coffee and divide up the jobs between us, so neither of us are struggling, but I'm just a bit concerned that she may interpret this as a criticism or me trying to palm off the slightly more tedious jobs. We work as a unit, so either the unit gets things done or it doesn't - if one fails we sort of both fail so hopefully we can divvy things up in a more intelligent way than we are currently.
She probably knows, and might well be desperate for a chat but embarrassed. I'd really encourage you to talk to her, but to think carefully about how you put it first. Maybe don't even mention her problems if you think it might upset her - just say that now you've had a bit of a re-org of responsibilities maybe you can have a chat about how it's working and see if there's anything either of you would like to swap. Then it's up to her to mention her disability if she wants to.
+1 to this.
I had an amazingly productive chat with my supervisor and mentee where we were all honest about what work needed to be done and what work we actually LIKED doing and what tasks we thought we were good at. Prior to this there were a couple of concerns about standards and abilities (more a difference in opinion about what the design standards were and how much we focused on content and how much on presentation), and after the talk it was a whole lot better. This is totally the opposite of our management's "address your weaknesses" chat that we had been following. It turned out that my supervisor was taking the bullet of doing the training presentations that he hates and assumed everyone hated. I sodding love giving those presentations. Swap completed.
I'd phrase it as "I've noticed that you are really good at ..... and .....; I enjoy ..... work more; what do you think about trading?" Ask questions about timing and work load and make it clear that you are only looking for win/wins (urgh, I normally hate that phrase), where you switch two tasks, you both enjoy your new task more and both tasks get done better or quicker. IMO we should all be having these conversations with our colleagues more often.
I'm crap at attention to detail after about ten minutes for stuff that doesn't interest me, and if someone offered to switch these tasks with me I'd be delighted. Granted, if someone started with "I've noticed that you are mentally deficient..." then I'd be pissed. So, as SLTD says, you are right to be thoughtful about having the conversation but you should absolutely have it.
LOL@ "I've noticed that you are mentally deficient..."
I think I'm going to just remind her of a few years ago when we both came into the roles and deliberately divided things up. There's been a bit of a change in tasks since then, so we probably would have needed that kind of chat regardless of the situation. And I think asking if there's anything she would like to swap is a great idea. Put the ball in her court.
PTFDangit! I was hoping someone had posted a new story or six. With so many Badasses out there in FIREland, it must be time for a new influx of inspiring and motivational tales. Who's next? The mic is officially open.
So I come into work last week and SURPRISE the company you've worked at for 11 years has been sold! And those raises we promised...how about a pay cut instead?
They calculated my pay rate by excluding the bonus I get (about 15% of my total compensation) to get my "base pay", and then basically giving me that. They also don't cover nearly as much of the insurance premiums as my previous employer. The end result is that I previously paid about $1500/yr total for insurance for me and my wife, and now the insurance is switching over at 7 months pregnancy and the my new "family" premiums are going to be over $10k/yr. I expected a slight jump in insurance when we added a kid, but they've totally changed the rules of the game just before the birth, without ever giving me a heads up, and it's going to affect me about $8k/yr.
I told them the offer was bullshit and that I'm confident I can go find an engineering job paying more than that immediately. They want me to start off at the bottom and prove myself, even though I have 11 years experience and played a large part in building the company to the level it was at. I also have plenty of money socked away and could live for a couple years with no job if necessary. So I told them all to stuff it and cleaned out my desk and walked out.
Apparently that got their attention, and after a week of tense back and forth negotiation I now have a new contract. With this new contract I get:
$13k/yr more salary
Large performance based bonus (estimated $10-15k/yr)
performance review/raise halfway between now and the next normal scheduled review
3 weeks paid paternity leave
"unlimited"* vacation
2 employees under me
I've been promised I don't have to do shitty field work anymore, and can just do office work if I want.
A shitload of awesome.
So I told them all to stuff it and cleaned out my desk and walked out.
Apparently that got their attention, and after a week of tense back and forth negotiation I now have a new contract.
Or a lot.So I told them all to stuff it and cleaned out my desk and walked out.
Apparently that got their attention, and after a week of tense back and forth negotiation I now have a new contract.
Perfect use of FU money, congratulations! It's amazing how much the game of life changes for the better when you just have a little savings.
Some minor back story for me: My parents got foreclosed on 5 years ago, and I let them move into my house for far below fair market value (about $400-500 below FMV, I just asked them to reimburse me for the mortgage/taxes/insurance). They lived there for 5 years and did not take care of the place. I finally asked them to leave because I wanted to sell it, and they got all pissed off and it's caused a huge rift in the family. Things are not good between me and them still. They got all huffy and moved out within a couple weeks and left the place in total disarray. I don't think they cleaned anything the whole time they were there. So for the past month I've been cleaning it up and fixing things up (up to about $14K so far plus a couple hundred hours between me/wife/her family). Also we are about 7 months pregnant after a long battle with infertility and going through IVF (and saving up for IVF because we ended up spending about $40k all said and done). There have been some other major life stresses that I don't even need to go into now. Suffice to say my life has been shitty and one big ball of stress for several months now.
So I come into work last week and SURPRISE the company you've worked at for 11 years has been sold! And those raises we promised...how about a pay cut instead?
They calculated my pay rate by excluding the bonus I get (about 15% of my total compensation) to get my "base pay", and then basically giving me that. They also don't cover nearly as much of the insurance premiums as my previous employer. The end result is that I previously paid about $1500/yr total for insurance for me and my wife, and now the insurance is switching over at 7 months pregnancy and the my new "family" premiums are going to be over $10k/yr. I expected a slight jump in insurance when we added a kid, but they've totally changed the rules of the game just before the birth, without ever giving me a heads up, and it's going to affect me about $8k/yr.
I told them the offer was bullshit and that I'm confident I can go find an engineering job paying more than that immediately. They want me to start off at the bottom and prove myself, even though I have 11 years experience and played a large part in building the company to the level it was at. I also have plenty of money socked away and could live for a couple years with no job if necessary. So I told them all to stuff it and cleaned out my desk and walked out.
Apparently that got their attention, and after a week of tense back and forth negotiation I now have a new contract. With this new contract I get:
$13k/yr more salary
Large performance based bonus (estimated $10-15k/yr)
performance review/raise halfway between now and the next normal scheduled review
3 weeks paid paternity leave
"unlimited"* vacation
2 employees under me
I've been promised I don't have to do shitty field work anymore, and can just do office work if I want.
Everyone else in the office is stuck and had no real option but to sign their new contract so they can keep getting a paycheck. I was the lone hold out. The change didn't affect anyone else nearly as much as it affected me. It pretty much worked out to equal compensation for everyone, except 2 of us senior guys, and it affected me much more harshly than the other guy. All in all though I think it ended up working out in my favor, and should actually decrease my time to FIRE by a couple years or more.
*unlimited in the sense that it's only limited by my ability to get my job done. Not truly unlimited, but I won't hit a point where they say "no you can't take that day off because you already took 14 days off!". I'm skeptical how it's all going to work out.
*unlimited in the sense that it's only limited by my ability to get my job done. Not truly unlimited, but I won't hit a point where they say "no you can't take that day off because you already took 14 days off!". I'm skeptical how it's all going to work out.
*unlimited in the sense that it's only limited by my ability to get my job done. Not truly unlimited, but I won't hit a point where they say "no you can't take that day off because you already took 14 days off!". I'm skeptical how it's all going to work out.
Make sure you make a record of how many days minimum you think is fair to take and actually take them. It is so easy as a lower level manager & previous independent contributor with a performance bonus to keep on putting off using the vacation days, and you end up not taking them (and then not getting them paid back when you leave because that is part of the 'unlimited' tradeoff).
*unlimited in the sense that it's only limited by my ability to get my job done. Not truly unlimited, but I won't hit a point where they say "no you can't take that day off because you already took 14 days off!". I'm skeptical how it's all going to work out.
Make sure you make a record of how many days minimum you think is fair to take and actually take them. It is so easy as a lower level manager & previous independent contributor with a performance bonus to keep on putting off using the vacation days, and you end up not taking them (and then not getting them paid back when you leave because that is part of the 'unlimited' tradeoff).
They seem pretty anal about everyone keeping track of jobs and projects and billable hours. Part of the reason they gave me a raise and kept me is because they need me. No one else in the organization can do exactly what I do, how I do it. I'm critical to keeping this company running, at least in the short term. I know I'm not truly irreplaceable, but I know they can't go hire someone and get them up to my level any time soon, and probably not for what they are paying me either, so for the next year at least they absolutely need me. That's all great when I'm negotiating for a raise, but now a couple weeks in when I want to start using my "unlimited" vacation time...well fuck, we have a couple complicated reports that are due this week and no one else is capable of getting them done. This is the exact reason they need me around, so it's not like I can just go on vacation for the rest of the week.
Friday + Monday is a lot easier than Monday - Friday. Just saying.
Friday + Monday is a lot easier than Monday - Friday. Just saying.
No doubt. I'm going to start making Friday half days a thing. And I'll probably try to take an actual week off twice annually.
If I were you, I'd schedule a 2 week vacation every year--schedule it 9 months in advance.
I wish I could do that, but the wife hates vacations that long--which I just cannot comprehend.
I take the last Friday of every month off. It's amazing what 12 additional three day weekends will do for your mindset. They said unlimited...
I take the last Friday of every month off. It's amazing what 12 additional three day weekends will do for your mindset. They said unlimited...
We work a so-called 9/80 schedule with every other Friday off (in exchange for working 9 hour days). However, I have enough vacation time to take off all the working Friday's until my FIRE date next year. So basically I'm just working 4 day weeks from here on out. Sweet.DH works that same schedule and we love it! He could do the same thing, but he hoards a good chunk of his very generous annual vacation allowance, partly because combining 9/80's, holidays and comp time is one of his favorite work-related games. His FIRE date isn't coming up quite as soon, but he will earn a generous pension with health benefits and COLA in just three more years. I can't wait!
I'm assuming you get holidays and sick time too?I take the last Friday of every month off. It's amazing what 12 additional three day weekends will do for your mindset. They said unlimited...
That's a good idea, I might just adopt that. I might also try to bail out early the other 3 fridays also.
2 one-week vacations = 10 days
12 month ending fridays = 12 days
40 other fridays (leave 2 hours early) = 10 days
for a total of 32 days. That might be pushing it a little. I'll see if I can get my work done with these new vacation days. I could always make up extra time during the week if we are busy so I won't actually be taking more vacation, just time shifting the last 2 hours of my friday earlier into the week.
I'm assuming you get holidays and sick time too?I take the last Friday of every month off. It's amazing what 12 additional three day weekends will do for your mindset. They said unlimited...
That's a good idea, I might just adopt that. I might also try to bail out early the other 3 fridays also.
2 one-week vacations = 10 days
12 month ending fridays = 12 days
40 other fridays (leave 2 hours early) = 10 days
for a total of 32 days. That might be pushing it a little. I'll see if I can get my work done with these new vacation days. I could always make up extra time during the week if we are busy so I won't actually be taking more vacation, just time shifting the last 2 hours of my friday earlier into the week.
I get 34 days of PTO a year, so if you are talking 32 days only, I'm not impressed. If you add 9 holidays and 5 sick days, now we are talking.
This may not be epic, but it sure made me feel better.
I work with a lot of awesome people, but one of the assistants to a high-level executive is just a nasty piece of work. She yells at people and just treats everyone like dirt. Shed is basically just a bully who thinks she is untouchable and acts accordingly. She has always been particularly rude to me. I am fairly new and on probation, and I tend to be a friendly, easygoing person so I think she sees me as an easy target.
Back in July, she called me and went off about something stupid. I held my peace, but I told my boss that she would never, ever speak to me like that again. I am not sure if something was said to her, but she has been semi-pleasant for the past few weeks. Last week, she was back at it and reduced our office assistant to tears. Today, while I was in another area working, she came into our office area, slammed the door as hard as she could and demanded to see me. Since I wasn't available she demanded to see my supervisor and threw a fit because she didn't like how I added something to MY calendar (apparently blocking off the day for a full day meeting is JUST.NOT.DONE) and then just lied about another perceived infractions. My supervisor basically laughed in her face.she seriously caused a huge scene about a calendar entry.
When I heard about this, I walked down to her office and told her off in a very professional way. She said she had never felt so disrespected in her life, and I told her that she now has taste of what everyone else feels like they deal with her and told her she had better not lie about me again and to never, ever speak to me with an attitude.
When I walked back to my office, I told my supervisor what I had done and to expect her to file a complaint against me tomorrow. I told her (direct quote), "I may be a bitch, but I'm not her bitch" and walked out the door.
So basically, I will see what hits the fan tomorrow...and I don't care. I have watched this person bully people for months and many feel they can't say anything because they need their job. I can because I don't. That is a pretty awesome feeling.
So basically, I will see what hits the fan tomorrow...and I don't care. I have watched this person bully people for months and many feel they can't say anything because they need their job. I can because I don't. That is a pretty awesome feeling.
This may not be epic, but it sure made me feel better.
I work with a lot of awesome people, but one of the assistants to a high-level executive is just a nasty piece of work. She yells at people and just treats everyone like dirt. Shed is basically just a bully who thinks she is untouchable and acts accordingly. She has always been particularly rude to me. I am fairly new and on probation, and I tend to be a friendly, easygoing person so I think she sees me as an easy target.
Back in July, she called me and went off about something stupid. I held my peace, but I told my boss that she would never, ever speak to me like that again. I am not sure if something was said to her, but she has been semi-pleasant for the past few weeks. Last week, she was back at it and reduced our office assistant to tears. Today, while I was in another area working, she came into our office area, slammed the door as hard as she could and demanded to see me. Since I wasn't available she demanded to see my supervisor and threw a fit because she didn't like how I added something to MY calendar (apparently blocking off the day for a full day meeting is JUST.NOT.DONE) and then just lied about another perceived infractions. My supervisor basically laughed in her face. She seriously caused a huge scene about a calendar entry.
When I heard about this, I walked down to her office and told her off in a very professional way. She said she had never felt so disrespected in her life, and I told her that she now has taste of what everyone else feels like they deal with her and told her she had better not lie about me again and to never, ever speak to me with an attitude.
When I walked back to my office, I told my supervisor what I had done and to expect her to file a complaint against me tomorrow. I told her (direct quote), "I may be a bitch, but I'm not her bitch" and walked out the door.
So basically, I will see what hits the fan tomorrow...and I don't care. I have watched this person bully people for months and many feel they can't say anything because they need their job. I can because I don't. That is a pretty awesome feeling.
When I walked back to my office, I told my supervisor what I had done and to expect her to file a complaint against me tomorrow. I told her (direct quote), "I may be a bitch, but I'm not her bitch" and walked out the door.
...I tend to be a friendly, easygoing person so I think she sees me as an easy target.
This may not be epic, but it sure made me feel better.
I work with a lot of awesome people, but one of the assistants to a high-level executive is just a nasty piece of work. She yells at people and just treats everyone like dirt. Shed is basically just a bully who thinks she is untouchable and acts accordingly. She has always been particularly rude to me. I am fairly new and on probation, and I tend to be a friendly, easygoing person so I think she sees me as an easy target.
Back in July, she called me and went off about something stupid. I held my peace, but I told my boss that she would never, ever speak to me like that again. I am not sure if something was said to her, but she has been semi-pleasant for the past few weeks. Last week, she was back at it and reduced our office assistant to tears. Today, while I was in another area working, she came into our office area, slammed the door as hard as she could and demanded to see me. Since I wasn't available she demanded to see my supervisor and threw a fit because she didn't like how I added something to MY calendar (apparently blocking off the day for a full day meeting is JUST.NOT.DONE) and then just lied about another perceived infractions. My supervisor basically laughed in her face. She seriously caused a huge scene about a calendar entry.
When I heard about this, I walked down to her office and told her off in a very professional way. She said she had never felt so disrespected in her life, and I told her that she now has taste of what everyone else feels like they deal with her and told her she had better not lie about me again and to never, ever speak to me with an attitude.
When I walked back to my office, I told my supervisor what I had done and to expect her to file a complaint against me tomorrow. I told her (direct quote), "I may be a bitch, but I'm not her bitch" and walked out the door.
So basically, I will see what hits the fan tomorrow...and I don't care. I have watched this person bully people for months and many feel they can't say anything because they need their job. I can because I don't. That is a pretty awesome feeling.
Much better. I interviewed at a company whose starting PTO was 19 days...sick, holiday, and vacation ... and they couldn't understand why they were unable to attract talent, especially people with experience.I'm assuming you get holidays and sick time too?I take the last Friday of every month off. It's amazing what 12 additional three day weekends will do for your mindset. They said unlimited...
That's a good idea, I might just adopt that. I might also try to bail out early the other 3 fridays also.
2 one-week vacations = 10 days
12 month ending fridays = 12 days
40 other fridays (leave 2 hours early) = 10 days
for a total of 32 days. That might be pushing it a little. I'll see if I can get my work done with these new vacation days. I could always make up extra time during the week if we are busy so I won't actually be taking more vacation, just time shifting the last 2 hours of my friday earlier into the week.
I get 34 days of PTO a year, so if you are talking 32 days only, I'm not impressed. If you add 9 holidays and 5 sick days, now we are talking.
Add 9 holidays and 7 sick days to those figures. Also add 15 days for paternity leave this year (though this will not be a recurring leave for me).
Well, nothing has been said by her at all. My supervisor did let me know she has my back if she wants to start something and the few coworkers who have heard about it have high-fived me. Our big director is out of the office today so it is possible that there could be some repercussions on that end although I suspect the big director will not be inclined to do much because I know she has been on the receiving end of her wrath, too. I have been in a great mood all day.
We work a so-called 9/80 schedule with every other Friday off (in exchange for working 9 hour days). However, I have enough vacation time to take off all the working Friday's until my FIRE date next year. So basically I'm just working 4 day weeks from here on out. Sweet.
This may not be epic, but it sure made me feel better.
I work with a lot of awesome people, but one of the assistants to a high-level executive is just a nasty piece of work. She yells at people and just treats everyone like dirt. Shed is basically just a bully who thinks she is untouchable and acts accordingly. She has always been particularly rude to me. I am fairly new and on probation, and I tend to be a friendly, easygoing person so I think she sees me as an easy target.
Back in July, she called me and went off about something stupid. I held my peace, but I told my boss that she would never, ever speak to me like that again. I am not sure if something was said to her, but she has been semi-pleasant for the past few weeks. Last week, she was back at it and reduced our office assistant to tears. Today, while I was in another area working, she came into our office area, slammed the door as hard as she could and demanded to see me. Since I wasn't available she demanded to see my supervisor and threw a fit because she didn't like how I added something to MY calendar (apparently blocking off the day for a full day meeting is JUST.NOT.DONE) and then just lied about another perceived infractions. My supervisor basically laughed in her face.she seriously caused a huge scene about a calendar entry.
When I heard about this, I walked down to her office and told her off in a very professional way. She said she had never felt so disrespected in her life, and I told her that she now has taste of what everyone else feels like they deal with her and told her she had better not lie about me again and to never, ever speak to me with an attitude.
When I walked back to my office, I told my supervisor what I had done and to expect her to file a complaint against me tomorrow. I told her (direct quote), "I may be a bitch, but I'm not her bitch" and walked out the door.
So basically, I will see what hits the fan tomorrow...and I don't care. I have watched this person bully people for months and many feel they can't say anything because they need their job. I can because I don't. That is a pretty awesome feeling.
Bravo for you. We have an executive assistant that is similar at my company. We call her "Barbzilla". Hopefully, everything will work out for the best!
This may not be epic, but it sure made me feel better.
I work with a lot of awesome people, but one of the assistants to a high-level executive is just a nasty piece of work. She yells at people and just treats everyone like dirt. Shed is basically just a bully who thinks she is untouchable and acts accordingly. She has always been particularly rude to me. I am fairly new and on probation, and I tend to be a friendly, easygoing person so I think she sees me as an easy target.
Back in July, she called me and went off about something stupid. I held my peace, but I told my boss that she would never, ever speak to me like that again. I am not sure if something was said to her, but she has been semi-pleasant for the past few weeks. Last week, she was back at it and reduced our office assistant to tears. Today, while I was in another area working, she came into our office area, slammed the door as hard as she could and demanded to see me. Since I wasn't available she demanded to see my supervisor and threw a fit because she didn't like how I added something to MY calendar (apparently blocking off the day for a full day meeting is JUST.NOT.DONE) and then just lied about another perceived infractions. My supervisor basically laughed in her face. She seriously caused a huge scene about a calendar entry.
When I heard about this, I walked down to her office and told her off in a very professional way. She said she had never felt so disrespected in her life, and I told her that she now has taste of what everyone else feels like they deal with her and told her she had better not lie about me again and to never, ever speak to me with an attitude.
When I walked back to my office, I told my supervisor what I had done and to expect her to file a complaint against me tomorrow. I told her (direct quote), "I may be a bitch, but I'm not her bitch" and walked out the door.
So basically, I will see what hits the fan tomorrow...and I don't care. I have watched this person bully people for months and many feel they can't say anything because they need their job. I can because I don't. That is a pretty awesome feeling.
She said she had never felt so disrespected in her life, and I told her that she now has taste of what everyone else feels like they deal with her...
This may not be epic, but it sure made me feel better.
I work with a lot of awesome people, but one of the assistants to a high-level executive is just a nasty piece of work. She yells at people and just treats everyone like dirt. Shed is basically just a bully who thinks she is untouchable and acts accordingly. She has always been particularly rude to me. I am fairly new and on probation, and I tend to be a friendly, easygoing person so I think she sees me as an easy target.
Back in July, she called me and went off about something stupid. I held my peace, but I told my boss that she would never, ever speak to me like that again. I am not sure if something was said to her, but she has been semi-pleasant for the past few weeks. Last week, she was back at it and reduced our office assistant to tears. Today, while I was in another area working, she came into our office area, slammed the door as hard as she could and demanded to see me. Since I wasn't available she demanded to see my supervisor and threw a fit because she didn't like how I added something to MY calendar (apparently blocking off the day for a full day meeting is JUST.NOT.DONE) and then just lied about another perceived infractions. My supervisor basically laughed in her face.she seriously caused a huge scene about a calendar entry.
When I heard about this, I walked down to her office and told her off in a very professional way. She said she had never felt so disrespected in her life, and I told her that she now has taste of what everyone else feels like they deal with her and told her she had better not lie about me again and to never, ever speak to me with an attitude.
When I walked back to my office, I told my supervisor what I had done and to expect her to file a complaint against me tomorrow. I told her (direct quote), "I may be a bitch, but I'm not her bitch" and walked out the door.
So basically, I will see what hits the fan tomorrow...and I don't care. I have watched this person bully people for months and many feel they can't say anything because they need their job. I can because I don't. That is a pretty awesome feeling.
Bravo for you. We have an executive assistant that is similar at my company. We call her "Barbzilla". Hopefully, everything will work out for the best!
This may not be epic, but it sure made me feel better.
I work with a lot of awesome people, but one of the assistants to a high-level executive is just a nasty piece of work. She yells at people and just treats everyone like dirt. Shed is basically just a bully who thinks she is untouchable and acts accordingly. She has always been particularly rude to me. I am fairly new and on probation, and I tend to be a friendly, easygoing person so I think she sees me as an easy target.
Back in July, she called me and went off about something stupid. I held my peace, but I told my boss that she would never, ever speak to me like that again. I am not sure if something was said to her, but she has been semi-pleasant for the past few weeks. Last week, she was back at it and reduced our office assistant to tears. Today, while I was in another area working, she came into our office area, slammed the door as hard as she could and demanded to see me. Since I wasn't available she demanded to see my supervisor and threw a fit because she didn't like how I added something to MY calendar (apparently blocking off the day for a full day meeting is JUST.NOT.DONE) and then just lied about another perceived infractions. My supervisor basically laughed in her face. She seriously caused a huge scene about a calendar entry.
When I heard about this, I walked down to her office and told her off in a very professional way. She said she had never felt so disrespected in her life, and I told her that she now has taste of what everyone else feels like they deal with her and told her she had better not lie about me again and to never, ever speak to me with an attitude.
When I walked back to my office, I told my supervisor what I had done and to expect her to file a complaint against me tomorrow. I told her (direct quote), "I may be a bitch, but I'm not her bitch" and walked out the door.
So basically, I will see what hits the fan tomorrow...and I don't care. I have watched this person bully people for months and many feel they can't say anything because they need their job. I can because I don't. That is a pretty awesome feeling.
Need update. Quick, quick! This type of epic FU gives me hope!This may not be epic, but it sure made me feel better.
I work with a lot of awesome people, but one of the assistants to a high-level executive is just a nasty piece of work. She yells at people and just treats everyone like dirt. Shed is basically just a bully who thinks she is untouchable and acts accordingly. She has always been particularly rude to me. I am fairly new and on probation, and I tend to be a friendly, easygoing person so I think she sees me as an easy target.
Back in July, she called me and went off about something stupid. I held my peace, but I told my boss that she would never, ever speak to me like that again. I am not sure if something was said to her, but she has been semi-pleasant for the past few weeks. Last week, she was back at it and reduced our office assistant to tears. Today, while I was in another area working, she came into our office area, slammed the door as hard as she could and demanded to see me. Since I wasn't available she demanded to see my supervisor and threw a fit because she didn't like how I added something to MY calendar (apparently blocking off the day for a full day meeting is JUST.NOT.DONE) and then just lied about another perceived infractions. My supervisor basically laughed in her face. She seriously caused a huge scene about a calendar entry.
When I heard about this, I walked down to her office and told her off in a very professional way. She said she had never felt so disrespected in her life, and I told her that she now has taste of what everyone else feels like they deal with her and told her she had better not lie about me again and to never, ever speak to me with an attitude.
When I walked back to my office, I told my supervisor what I had done and to expect her to file a complaint against me tomorrow. I told her (direct quote), "I may be a bitch, but I'm not her bitch" and walked out the door.
So basically, I will see what hits the fan tomorrow...and I don't care. I have watched this person bully people for months and many feel they can't say anything because they need their job. I can because I don't. That is a pretty awesome feeling.
Totally epic.
Need update. Quick, quick! This type of epic FU gives me hope!This may not be epic, but it sure made me feel better.
I work with a lot of awesome people, but one of the assistants to a high-level executive is just a nasty piece of work. She yells at people and just treats everyone like dirt. Shed is basically just a bully who thinks she is untouchable and acts accordingly. She has always been particularly rude to me. I am fairly new and on probation, and I tend to be a friendly, easygoing person so I think she sees me as an easy target.
Back in July, she called me and went off about something stupid. I held my peace, but I told my boss that she would never, ever speak to me like that again. I am not sure if something was said to her, but she has been semi-pleasant for the past few weeks. Last week, she was back at it and reduced our office assistant to tears. Today, while I was in another area working, she came into our office area, slammed the door as hard as she could and demanded to see me. Since I wasn't available she demanded to see my supervisor and threw a fit because she didn't like how I added something to MY calendar (apparently blocking off the day for a full day meeting is JUST.NOT.DONE) and then just lied about another perceived infractions. My supervisor basically laughed in her face. She seriously caused a huge scene about a calendar entry.
When I heard about this, I walked down to her office and told her off in a very professional way. She said she had never felt so disrespected in her life, and I told her that she now has taste of what everyone else feels like they deal with her and told her she had better not lie about me again and to never, ever speak to me with an attitude.
When I walked back to my office, I told my supervisor what I had done and to expect her to file a complaint against me tomorrow. I told her (direct quote), "I may be a bitch, but I'm not her bitch" and walked out the door.
So basically, I will see what hits the fan tomorrow...and I don't care. I have watched this person bully people for months and many feel they can't say anything because they need their job. I can because I don't. That is a pretty awesome feeling.
Totally epic.
I think I started a mini-revolution.
That was why I was so annoyed last week...I have been busting my tail off to get prepared for this audit because we didn't know when they would show up (they give you a three month time frame but no specific dates...they just show up) and she is acting like a damn fool over an Outlook calendar entry. On a funnier note, the auditor I worked with today was complaining that he didn't get lunch yesterday...guess who was responsible for ordering food?
That was why I was so annoyed last week...I have been busting my tail off to get prepared for this audit because we didn't know when they would show up (they give you a three month time frame but no specific dates...they just show up) and she is acting like a damn fool over an Outlook calendar entry. On a funnier note, the auditor I worked with today was complaining that he didn't get lunch yesterday...guess who was responsible for ordering food?
I'm an auditor, and I deal with external auditors as well. Escalate this. Seriously. If you promise me food, and don't provide it, you make me crabby. Trust me, you do NOT want to make your auditor crabby. I can make your life so much harder. I can decide to write the finding when it could go either way. There can be serious consequences to pissing off your auditors, and you do not know these people. This one person could significantly hurt the company by pulling those types of stunts.
So now I am in a pickle. I decided to stand up for the disabled rights. I could have just taken the punishment, not gone to HR, and ended up getting laid off, but now it seems I have turned things around with my d**k managers (after HR probably scared them) and now I may not have grounds to go to HR and ask for a buyout package. And after managers are now being nice to me, I may feel obligated to continue on for a while.
But I really want to FIRE...and do it with a package.
...Or at least they are just scared of lawyers getting involved.
Maybe they're still scared, and they'd be willing to arrange a package if asked? After all, the managers got better, but they should have been properly trained in the first place, the company is still at fault. If HR has any wiggle room to arrange a package, whether due to these incidents or other grounds, perhaps they would still do it. Especially if you're up front that the managers improved, and you appreciate that HR did a good job fixing it, you're "asking only for whatever is actually within their professional discretion to arrange" or some such?
Good luck pulling the ripcord in any case.
Non-disclosure agreement, perhaps? I know, you can't say. But that doesn't mean we can't guess!
Well played, Daisy. Looking forward to welcoming you to FIREdom.
So now I am in a pickle. I decided to stand up for the disabled rights. I could have just taken the punishment, not gone to HR, and ended up getting laid off, but now it seems I have turned things around with my d**k managers (after HR probably scared them) and now I may not have grounds to go to HR and ask for a buyout package. And after managers are now being nice to me, I may feel obligated to continue on for a while.
But I really want to FIRE...and do it with a package.
...Or at least they are just scared of lawyers getting involved.
Maybe they're still scared, and they'd be willing to arrange a package if asked? After all, the managers got better, but they should have been properly trained in the first place, the company is still at fault. If HR has any wiggle room to arrange a package, whether due to these incidents or other grounds, perhaps they would still do it. Especially if you're up front that the managers improved, and you appreciate that HR did a good job fixing it, you're "asking only for whatever is actually within their professional discretion to arrange" or some such?
Good luck pulling the ripcord in any case.
This may or may not have worked...that's all I am saying.
BTW, I am FIRE'ing on 9/29!
Another epic FU story win!
I take the last Friday of every month off. It's amazing what 12 additional three day weekends will do for your mindset. They said unlimited...
That's a good idea, I might just adopt that. I might also try to bail out early the other 3 fridays also.
2 one-week vacations = 10 days
12 month ending fridays = 12 days
40 other fridays (leave 2 hours early) = 10 days
for a total of 32 days. That might be pushing it a little. I'll see if I can get my work done with these new vacation days. I could always make up extra time during the week if we are busy so I won't actually be taking more vacation, just time shifting the last 2 hours of my friday earlier into the week.
That was why I was so annoyed last week...I have been busting my tail off to get prepared for this audit because we didn't know when they would show up (they give you a three month time frame but no specific dates...they just show up) and she is acting like a damn fool over an Outlook calendar entry. On a funnier note, the auditor I worked with today was complaining that he didn't get lunch yesterday...guess who was responsible for ordering food?
I'm an auditor, and I deal with external auditors as well. Escalate this. Seriously. If you promise me food, and don't provide it, you make me crabby. Trust me, you do NOT want to make your auditor crabby. I can make your life so much harder. I can decide to write the finding when it could go either way. There can be serious consequences to pissing off your auditors, and you do not know these people. This one person could significantly hurt the company by pulling those types of stunts.
One of our problems in this world: People can be petty.
EDIT: I accidentally a sentence. And yes her and the baby are fine.
EDIT: I accidentally a sentence. And yes her and the baby are fine.
I think you accidentallied a word now, too.
You guys are hill airy ass.
That was why I was so annoyed last week...I have been busting my tail off to get prepared for this audit because we didn't know when they would show up (they give you a three month time frame but no specific dates...they just show up) and she is acting like a damn fool over an Outlook calendar entry. On a funnier note, the auditor I worked with today was complaining that he didn't get lunch yesterday...guess who was responsible for ordering food?
I'm an auditor, and I deal with external auditors as well. Escalate this. Seriously. If you promise me food, and don't provide it, you make me crabby. Trust me, you do NOT want to make your auditor crabby. I can make your life so much harder. I can decide to write the finding when it could go either way. There can be serious consequences to pissing off your auditors, and you do not know these people. This one person could significantly hurt the company by pulling those types of stunts.
One of our problems in this world: People can be petty.
The problem is that people can be influenced by things subconsciously. An adult relative will start getting really argumentative and upset with everyone whenever he is short on sleep.
"[Relative], you're tired! Stop arguing with people and go take a nap!"
"I'm not tired! You're just wrong about [some stupid thing]!"
...but then he's back to normal once he's had a nap.
At OldJob, we always made a point of feeding the external auditors well and giving them as much decent coffee as they wanted.
Daisy, congratulations on whatever you may or may not have arranged or negotiated!
I take the last Friday of every month off. It's amazing what 12 additional three day weekends will do for your mindset. They said unlimited...
That's a good idea, I might just adopt that. I might also try to bail out early the other 3 fridays also.
2 one-week vacations = 10 days
12 month ending fridays = 12 days
40 other fridays (leave 2 hours early) = 10 days
for a total of 32 days. That might be pushing it a little. I'll see if I can get my work done with these new vacation days. I could always make up extra time during the week if we are busy so I won't actually be taking more vacation, just time shifting the last 2 hours of my friday earlier into the week.
My wife was in a car accident on saturday and the car is totalled, so we've been dealing with insurance and replacing her car all week. I've only been at work 16 hours so far this week, and half of that has been spent either dealing with the insurance or researching replacement cars. Not sure exactly how I'm going to record this on my time sheets, but my bosses aren't giving me any shit about it yet. I'm still taking 3 weeks paternity in 2-4 weeks.
EDIT: I accidentally a sentence. And yes her and the baby are fine.
That was why I was so annoyed last week...I have been busting my tail off to get prepared for this audit because we didn't know when they would show up (they give you a three month time frame but no specific dates...they just show up) and she is acting like a damn fool over an Outlook calendar entry. On a funnier note, the auditor I worked with today was complaining that he didn't get lunch yesterday...guess who was responsible for ordering food?
I'm an auditor, and I deal with external auditors as well. Escalate this. Seriously. If you promise me food, and don't provide it, you make me crabby. Trust me, you do NOT want to make your auditor crabby. I can make your life so much harder. I can decide to write the finding when it could go either way. There can be serious consequences to pissing off your auditors, and you do not know these people. This one person could significantly hurt the company by pulling those types of stunts.
One of our problems in this world: People can be petty.
The problem is that people can be influenced by things subconsciously. An adult relative will start getting really argumentative and upset with everyone whenever he is short on sleep.
"[Relative], you're tired! Stop arguing with people and go take a nap!"
"I'm not tired! You're just wrong about [some stupid thing]!"
...but then he's back to normal once he's had a nap.
At OldJob, we always made a point of feeding the external auditors well and giving them as much decent coffee as they wanted.
Daisy, congratulations on whatever you may or may not have arranged or negotiated!
With the auditors/examiners/whomever, it is a fine line. Take care of them with good coffee, a big room, be very friendly, do what you say you're going to do when you say you're going to do it, etc. But you don't want them to be too comfortable--don't give them the best chairs, try to keep them in a room without a window--things that will subconsciously make them want to get out of there, but aren't blatant.
I saw some analysis, the longer time that an auditor (broad term there) spent at a place, the more issues that were written up. The biggest predictor that an auditor would spend more time in a place? The location itself. For instance, a pharmaceutical plant in Nebraska has less scrutiny than one in San Diego or Chicago. Nobody from the FDA wants to hang out in Lincoln Nebraska; they want to get in and get out. But if they're in Chicago or San Diego (or insert place with reasonable tourism), then they'll extend their trip and find reasons to stay a little longer. "Yeah, I think I'll have to wrap this up on Tuesday instead of Friday; I'll have to stay the weekend--might as well take a trip to Tijuana!"
This isn't exactly an FU money story, but several months ago our CEO told me that they had "squeezed out" a $5k raise for me. This would have put me into the position where I was earning just a bit more than 3x the salary of the newest person on my team.
My husband and I have a good annual income (probably 8x what we actually spend, not counting taxes), no debt, and savings such that he is just on point of FIREing. $5000 * 60% (amount after taxes) is going to make basically no difference at all. Told the CEO to gave the raise to New Guy instead. It felt great, and still feels great, especially since no one else knows about it.
Even 5 years ago this would have been inconceivable.
This isn't exactly an FU money story, but several months ago our CEO told me that they had "squeezed out" a $5k raise for me. This would have put me into the position where I was earning just a bit more than 3x the salary of the newest person on my team.
My husband and I have a good annual income (probably 8x what we actually spend, not counting taxes), no debt, and savings such that he is just on point of FIREing. $5000 * 60% (amount after taxes) is going to make basically no difference at all. Told the CEO to gave the raise to New Guy instead. It felt great, and still feels great, especially since no one else knows about it.
Even 5 years ago this would have been inconceivable.
....they "squeezed out" a $5k raise for me. ......that phrase reminds me of a biological function. see also " Don't step in the management" Dilbert book.
Glad to hear it Daisy! Well deserved! :)
Glad to hear it Daisy! Well deserved! :)
Surely you jest.
Glad to hear it Daisy! Well deserved! :)
Surely you jest.
Not at all!
You stood up and said something when people were treating you unfairly due to the disability, doing the right thing not only for yourself, but anyone else who might be at that company presently or later.
You got a buy out for it, which is deserved, and that put you over the top to FIRE with your savings, which you had earned and deserved. Thus FIRE. Well done! :)
This isn't exactly an FU money story, but several months ago our CEO told me that they had "squeezed out" a $5k raise for me. This would have put me into the position where I was earning just a bit more than 3x the salary of the newest person on my team.Well done! How did the CEO react?
My husband and I have a good annual income (probably 8x what we actually spend, not counting taxes), no debt, and savings such that he is just on point of FIREing. $5000 * 60% (amount after taxes) is going to make basically no difference at all. Told the CEO to gave the raise to New Guy instead. It felt great, and still feels great, especially since no one else knows about it.
Even 5 years ago this would have been inconceivable.
This isn't exactly an FU money story, but several months ago our CEO told me that they had "squeezed out" a $5k raise for me. This would have put me into the position where I was earning just a bit more than 3x the salary of the newest person on my team.Well done! How did the CEO react?
My husband and I have a good annual income (probably 8x what we actually spend, not counting taxes), no debt, and savings such that he is just on point of FIREing. $5000 * 60% (amount after taxes) is going to make basically no difference at all. Told the CEO to gave the raise to New Guy instead. It felt great, and still feels great, especially since no one else knows about it.
Even 5 years ago this would have been inconceivable.
This isn't exactly an FU money story, but several months ago our CEO told me that they had "squeezed out" a $5k raise for me. This would have put me into the position where I was earning just a bit more than 3x the salary of the newest person on my team.Well done! How did the CEO react?
My husband and I have a good annual income (probably 8x what we actually spend, not counting taxes), no debt, and savings such that he is just on point of FIREing. $5000 * 60% (amount after taxes) is going to make basically no difference at all. Told the CEO to gave the raise to New Guy instead. It felt great, and still feels great, especially since no one else knows about it.
Even 5 years ago this would have been inconceivable.
That's amazing. You are such a thoughtful, generous person. What did the CEO say, though??
Basically, "Wow - but it's your team, so ...."
I was trying to convey that this wasn't that generous an action - New Guy was buying a house and had a combined household income of probably $70k. Also, I have some opinions about fairness/equality in compensation, and it would have probably cost me considerably in the area of guilt (difficult to monetize) to have someone working the same hours as me for less than 1/3 the pay. It's my personal cutoff for whatever reason - I can justify 3x the salary due to my greater education, experience, innate ability, whatever - but not more than that. Need to put my money where my mouth is to feel OK about myself. I hope this makes sense.
Basically, "Wow - but it's your team, so ...."
I was trying to convey that this wasn't that generous an action - New Guy was buying a house and had a combined household income of probably $70k. Also, I have some opinions about fairness/equality in compensation, and it would have probably cost me considerably in the area of guilt (difficult to monetize) to have someone working the same hours as me for less than 1/3 the pay. It's my personal cutoff for whatever reason - I can justify 3x the salary due to my greater education, experience, innate ability, whatever - but not more than that. Need to put my money where my mouth is to feel OK about myself. I hope this makes sense.
Not downplaying this at all, I'm impressed you donated your money to some other cause, but just curious why you see that guy as more deserving of your money than people in other countries who don't make 1/3rd what you do but 1/3000th? ~20% of the worlds population makes less than $1/day. Sure you don't need it, but if you're going to donate your money to a charity, I think you should do it purposely in a way that best matches with your values rather than to some guy at work you feel bad for.
Wait, you gave five thousand dollars a year to your employee and now you are suggesting we take our comments to another thread so we don't derail this one? I think you're going overboard on this thoughtfulness thing. Rein it in!Different person gave the $5K raise to an employee from the one who wanted to discuss giving strategies, and was polite enough to open a new thread for that purpose. Bravo to both of them!
/sarcasm
My real comment: Bravo!
My wife works for a large, multi-industry corporation. They are re-jiggering how they track work hours, so my wife--who currently works 32 hours a week--asked me whether our family was better off with her at 35 or 30 (I think they're going to want her to supply the same amount of time each day).
I gulped, then told her 30. The mustachian muscles are a little weak (we have a Disney habit that we cannot seem to kick), but we've managed to save more than $0.8 million in various investments. Losing 7% of her hours is not nothing, but I couldn't justify asking her to work more with us this far along.
My wife works for a large, multi-industry corporation. They are re-jiggering how they track work hours, so my wife--who currently works 32 hours a week--asked me whether our family was better off with her at 35 or 30 (I think they're going to want her to supply the same amount of time each day).
I gulped, then told her 30. The mustachian muscles are a little weak (we have a Disney habit that we cannot seem to kick), but we've managed to save more than $0.8 million in various investments. Losing 7% of her hours is not nothing, but I couldn't justify asking her to work more with us this far along.
Wait, you gave five thousand dollars a year to your employee and now you are suggesting we take our comments to another thread so we don't derail this one? I think you're going overboard on this thoughtfulness thing. Rein it in!
/sarcasm
You don't Derail a Thread, you Unravel It (right?!)
Different person gave the $5K raise to an employee from the one who wanted to discuss giving strategies, and was polite enough to open a new thread for that purpose. Bravo to both of them!
You don't Derail a Thread, you Unravel It (right?!)Why not both?
@ RWD : So many bonus points if you did that yourself, just to prove a point.I just did a Google image search. Not much creativity required.
Enough of derailing.Sorry...
Can we please get back to FU stories?
A guy in my company was working his last day in the office. I have to say he was kind of "managed out the door", so he could give a crap about consequences. He set up a rule in Microsoft Outlook - to block any incoming emails with @thecompany.com in the address, if you get my meaning. It was a very quiet last day, and he had made "bank" already.
More recently instead of waiting to be assigned a project I just started my own pet project and have been including it in my status report. No one has complained yet that I'm almost becoming my own boss. I've never been happier at my job, which is kind of ironic since I've been so focused recently on obtaining early retirement.
More recently instead of waiting to be assigned a project I just started my own pet project and have been including it in my status report. No one has complained yet that I'm almost becoming my own boss. I've never been happier at my job, which is kind of ironic since I've been so focused recently on obtaining early retirement.
That's awesome.
That was why I was so annoyed last week...I have been busting my tail off to get prepared for this audit because we didn't know when they would show up (they give you a three month time frame but no specific dates...they just show up) and she is acting like a damn fool over an Outlook calendar entry. On a funnier note, the auditor I worked with today was complaining that he didn't get lunch yesterday...guess who was responsible for ordering food?
I'm an auditor, and I deal with external auditors as well. Escalate this. Seriously. If you promise me food, and don't provide it, you make me crabby. Trust me, you do NOT want to make your auditor crabby. I can make your life so much harder. I can decide to write the finding when it could go either way. There can be serious consequences to pissing off your auditors, and you do not know these people. This one person could significantly hurt the company by pulling those types of stunts.
One of our problems in this world: People can be petty.
I have a sad lack-of-FU-money story. I ran into a coworker at a break area who's being denied a PTO request for the days between Xmas and NYE because she's "needed here". Her request was to fly home to Mexico to visit her elderly father and commemorate the anniversary of her mother's death. :-(
OK back to the topic! Has anyone ever just up and left a job with no FU money? Just enough to maybe get them thru for a little while in the hopes of getting something better?
In my early 20's when I was first starting out after college, I did this quite a bit. It was the early 90's and unless you were in accounting, finance, or engineering, then corporate jobs were hard to come by. What was left were a lot of dregs with bad bosses, people mills, etc. When I had enough and realized that I needed more time to focus on getting a better job, I would make sure that I very quietly and confidentially lined up people to cover my work load, document all notes and follow up items still to do, etc so that they were not left in the lurch, and rather than giving notice so that I still had to work for and with people I could not stand, I would just type up a note "I Quit"and leave in the middle of my bosses desk on a Sunday so that he would see it first thing Monday. So I would go in the weekend before, clean out my desk, wrap up anything left undone, and leave clean. I did this probably 3 times and it gave me an incredible sense of control. I would then use the down time to look for a better job and than found those jobs pretty quickly.
Now as a grown up now in the corporate world, I have always been seen as a top performer/top 10% hi-po, etc and when I've had enough a couple times, my bosses would not accept my resignation, asking "what do you want, will give you more money, we'll let you work from home, we'll let you switch jobs, etc. I have had to employ the same routine where I confidentially work with people i trust in advance of my defined exit date to hand off work, document notes and follow up. I then go in the weekend before, clean out my office, leave a nice hand written note as well as an e-mail that outlines that I resign, thank you for everything....etc., leave my bade and laptop, then I'm done. Difference in the corporate world is that i did always line up a new job outside before I did this and have stash vs my 20's where I was completely broke.
My next time, I don't anticipating having another gig lined up. I am close to being completely done, for now at least.
I have a sad lack-of-FU-money story. I ran into a coworker at a break area who's being denied a PTO request for the days between Xmas and NYE because she's "needed here". Her request was to fly home to Mexico to visit her elderly father and commemorate the anniversary of her mother's death. :-(
I've gotten so used to telling rather than asking at work that I kind of did it to my wife yesterday. "I'm going on a trip to meet up with my old friends at the end of March" <Pause> "Whoops - what I meant to say is 'I'm thinking about going on a trip at the end of March to meet up with my old friends. What do you think about that?'"I have a sad lack-of-FU-money story. I ran into a coworker at a break area who's being denied a PTO request for the days between Xmas and NYE because she's "needed here". Her request was to fly home to Mexico to visit her elderly father and commemorate the anniversary of her mother's death. :-(
That's sad, one of the subtlest results of having FU money that I didn't even realize I started doing was I stopped asking for things, and just started doing them or telling them I was going to do it, assuming it was kosher. People at work ask me all the time 'how did you get them to agree to X?'. 'Uh, I never asked, I just did it and they never said anything'. At which point they look at me like I'm a wackadoo.
Maenad - did you suggest CW rephrase the request to not be a question. "I'm going to be out of the country XX to YY" might elicit a different response.
OK back to the topic! Has anyone ever just up and left a job with no FU money? Just enough to maybe get them thru for a little while in the hopes of getting something better?
In my early 20's when I was first starting out after college, I did this quite a bit. It was the early 90's and unless you were in accounting, finance, or engineering, then corporate jobs were hard to come by. What was left were a lot of dregs with bad bosses, people mills, etc. When I had enough and realized that I needed more time to focus on getting a better job, I would make sure that I very quietly and confidentially lined up people to cover my work load, document all notes and follow up items still to do, etc so that they were not left in the lurch, and rather than giving notice so that I still had to work for and with people I could not stand, I would just type up a note "I Quit"and leave in the middle of my bosses desk on a Sunday so that he would see it first thing Monday. So I would go in the weekend before, clean out my desk, wrap up anything left undone, and leave clean. I did this probably 3 times and it gave me an incredible sense of control. I would then use the down time to look for a better job and than found those jobs pretty quickly.
Now as a grown up now in the corporate world, I have always been seen as a top performer/top 10% hi-po, etc and when I've had enough a couple times, my bosses would not accept my resignation, asking "what do you want, will give you more money, we'll let you work from home, we'll let you switch jobs, etc. I have had to employ the same routine where I confidentially work with people i trust in advance of my defined exit date to hand off work, document notes and follow up. I then go in the weekend before, clean out my office, leave a nice hand written note as well as an e-mail that outlines that I resign, thank you for everything....etc., leave my bade and laptop, then I'm done. Difference in the corporate world is that i did always line up a new job outside before I did this and have stash vs my 20's where I was completely broke.
My next time, I don't anticipating having another gig lined up. I am close to being completely done, for now at least.
Yep, in my mid 20's I had a job in a call centre that I detested, I had no money at the time, maybe $500 in the bank if that, I got offered a part-time job at a friend's small business paying less but enough to get by and I thought I could go back to uni part-time to finish my last semester of uni a month later so I told my team leader I was giving them one weeks notice, he sent me to the manager, I told them the same, the manager said that I had to give 4 weeks notice as per my contract, I said I can only give you 1 weeks notice, they said no, I said ok, let me reconsider, that was a Friday, I told my team leader and colleagues I wasn't coming back the next week and I didn't, the manager tried to call me the following week but I didn't answer my phone and that was that.
They should have just accepted my 1 weeks notice. Now that I'm older and wiser I wish I had insisted on the 1 weeks notice and left it at that.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Someone asked for a Lack-of-FU-Money story.
I went to work at a new company some years ago. I was there about a week when I received an email from the DBA on a different project. It had been blind-copied to everyone in the office and had been sent to his project manager. Let's just say he had nothing nice to say to the project manager.
Since I didn't know any of these people, I just kept quiet and observed.
A few months later the project manager took away the DBA's database privileges. For non IT folks, that's the equivalent of taking away a truck driver's keys. He's not going to be doing anything useful for the project under those circumstances.
A few days later, someone noticed that his office was empty (i.e, no person or belongings in it). A hand-written note had been taped to the door that simply said "Gone!!!"
No notice, no email to HR, nothing. Just "Gone!!!".
After 3 days he was considered to have abandoned his position and his job was ended.
A couple of days after payday, about 2 weeks later, he showed up at the office hoping to get his job back. He didn't.
But the story gets better.
A couple of months go by and I'm told that same project manager is not threatening to turn in the company to the Feds and claim "Fraud, waste and abuse" because the project has been mismanaged.
I think to myself, "But isn't he the project manager who would be responsible for said mismanagement? Surely he's not really planning to do that..."
A couple of weeks go by and I have to go over and ask him something. I step behind his desk to see the screen he wants to show me and I notice that his web browser on his 2nd monitor is on the federal fraud, waste and abuse website...
"Okey, dokey. He really is that stupid!"
Some time passes and the fellow is let go.
But it gets better.
Both of them have taken contracts to work in Iraq because they (a) can get a job and (b) it pays really well. They are stuck in the same 2 person shack in the desert working together...
We all laughed our asses off when we found that out.
Karma!!!!
Someone asked for a Lack-of-FU-Money story.
I went to work at a new company some years ago. I was there about a week when I received an email from the DBA on a different project. It had been blind-copied to everyone in the office and had been sent to his project manager. Let's just say he had nothing nice to say to the project manager.
Since I didn't know any of these people, I just kept quiet and observed.
A few months later the project manager took away the DBA's database privileges. For non IT folks, that's the equivalent of taking away a truck driver's keys. He's not going to be doing anything useful for the project under those circumstances.
A few days later, someone noticed that his office was empty (i.e, no person or belongings in it). A hand-written note had been taped to the door that simply said "Gone!!!"
No notice, no email to HR, nothing. Just "Gone!!!".
After 3 days he was considered to have abandoned his position and his job was ended.
A couple of days after payday, about 2 weeks later, he showed up at the office hoping to get his job back. He didn't.
But the story gets better.
A couple of months go by and I'm told that same project manager is not threatening to turn in the company to the Feds and claim "Fraud, waste and abuse" because the project has been mismanaged.
I think to myself, "But isn't he the project manager who would be responsible for said mismanagement? Surely he's not really planning to do that..."
A couple of weeks go by and I have to go over and ask him something. I step behind his desk to see the screen he wants to show me and I notice that his web browser on his 2nd monitor is on the federal fraud, waste and abuse website...
"Okey, dokey. He really is that stupid!"
Some time passes and the fellow is let go.
But it gets better.
Both of them have taken contracts to work in Iraq because they (a) can get a job and (b) it pays really well. They are stuck in the same 2 person shack in the desert working together...
We all laughed our asses off when we found that out.
Karma!!!!
Is it just me, or are IT folk generally egomaniacal, socially maladjusted drama queens who make every one else's life as difficult as possible???
Someone asked for a Lack-of-FU-Money story.
I went to work at a new company some years ago. I was there about a week when I received an email from the DBA on a different project. It had been blind-copied to everyone in the office and had been sent to his project manager. Let's just say he had nothing nice to say to the project manager.
Since I didn't know any of these people, I just kept quiet and observed.
A few months later the project manager took away the DBA's database privileges. For non IT folks, that's the equivalent of taking away a truck driver's keys. He's not going to be doing anything useful for the project under those circumstances.
A few days later, someone noticed that his office was empty (i.e, no person or belongings in it). A hand-written note had been taped to the door that simply said "Gone!!!"
No notice, no email to HR, nothing. Just "Gone!!!".
After 3 days he was considered to have abandoned his position and his job was ended.
A couple of days after payday, about 2 weeks later, he showed up at the office hoping to get his job back. He didn't.
But the story gets better.
A couple of months go by and I'm told that same project manager is not threatening to turn in the company to the Feds and claim "Fraud, waste and abuse" because the project has been mismanaged.
I think to myself, "But isn't he the project manager who would be responsible for said mismanagement? Surely he's not really planning to do that..."
A couple of weeks go by and I have to go over and ask him something. I step behind his desk to see the screen he wants to show me and I notice that his web browser on his 2nd monitor is on the federal fraud, waste and abuse website...
"Okey, dokey. He really is that stupid!"
Some time passes and the fellow is let go.
But it gets better.
Both of them have taken contracts to work in Iraq because they (a) can get a job and (b) it pays really well. They are stuck in the same 2 person shack in the desert working together...
We all laughed our asses off when we found that out.
Karma!!!!
Is it just me, or are IT folk generally egomaniacal, socially maladjusted drama queens who make every one else's life as difficult as possible???
Nope. But perhaps I was just unlucky.
Is it just me, or are IT folk generally egomaniacal, socially maladjusted drama queens who make every one else's life as difficult as possible???
Is it just me, or are IT folk generally egomaniacal, socially maladjusted drama queens who make every one else's life as difficult as possible???Yes, that's us. In our spare time, we also love pointing out everyone else's spelling mistakes to give them a chance to better themselves. These selfless qualities are why we are the Chosen Ones.
Is it just me, or are IT folk generally egomaniacal, socially maladjusted drama queens who make every one else's life as difficult as possible???
Does everyone not in IT think computers are magic and when things go wrong the IT people can just wave their magic wands and immediately fix whatever is wrong and the reason they don't make it magically better right away must definitely be out of spite and hatred of others?
I have a sad lack-of-FU-money story. I ran into a coworker at a break area who's being denied a PTO request for the days between Xmas and NYE because she's "needed here". Her request was to fly home to Mexico to visit her elderly father and commemorate the anniversary of her mother's death. :-(
I think it comes from too many experiences with users who *are* complete digital morons, users who lie ("of course I restarted my computer!"), and users who are abusive (seen in a customer's email just this week: "I hope you're fired!"). It might also come from the ability to fix things with a few keystrokes when all is going haywire around you. It strokes the ego a bit :)Is it just me, or are IT folk generally egomaniacal, socially maladjusted drama queens who make every one else's life as difficult as possible???
Does everyone not in IT think computers are magic and when things go wrong the IT people can just wave their magic wands and immediately fix whatever is wrong and the reason they don't make it magically better right away must definitely be out of spite and hatred of others?
No, but IT folk seem to think that everyone not It folk is a complete digital moron who will buy a dumb excuse because they don't feel like staying after 5pm sharp.
A lot of people have had some pretty terrible experience with IT people...I'm going to go out on a limb and say you either work for shitty companies, have shitty IT departments, or don't have a job function that's critical enough to merit a response that you deem satisfactory.
I'm on call 24x7 and technically work in IT. I also don't work on a help desk...
A lot of people have had some pretty terrible experience with IT people...I'm going to go out on a limb and say you either work for shitty companies, have shitty IT departments, or don't have a job function that's critical enough to merit a response that you deem satisfactory.
I'm on call 24x7 and technically work in IT. I also don't work on a help desk...
Please, can we get back to FU stories?Here's a minor one. Wife used to work for the legislature here. She planned a trip with a friend, and was approved for this trip, leaving the day after the session was supposed to end. Less than a week before the end of session, they decided to extend it because in spite of the same party controlling the entire legislature, they couldn't get a couple of things done on time. There was time at the beginning of session for them to do a bunch of BS like "follies" and other "partying like its 1959" type of activities though. Supposed to be an all hands situation, but wife went on the trip anyway.
Create a new thread if you wish to complain about IT.
"partying like its 1959" type of activitiesI'm intrigued. How exactly did folks party in 1959?
Well, at least one did it very wrong - made some racist comments at a bar the legislators frequent and wound up being forced to resign."partying like its 1959" type of activitiesI'm intrigued. How exactly did folks party in 1959?
Just a note: many IT people deal with people who regularly describe the problem as "nothing works". I was lucky enough early on in my career to have a very gentle IT Pro explain to me that "Nothing Works" didn't help him identify the problem and that I needed to use more descriptive sentences.
Huh. Every place I've ever worked, IT end up being the tail wagging the dog, holding the entire place to ransom essentially for some ridiculous process. I once had to cancel an exam because nothing worked and the IT dept were in their weekly meeting. I mean, screw 200 students and staff, because 10 people have to have a meeting..... And this was an exam they knew about in advance because I'd contacted them to make sure everything was operational!
On the "you're going to have to tell me more than that" front - I just got asked in the elevator "What's the status on that request <Person who no longer works here> made 2 months ago?". I replied "What was it about?". Answer "I don't remember, and it is none of the things you found in your email from this person and sent to me".Just a note: many IT people deal with people who regularly describe the problem as "nothing works". I was lucky enough early on in my career to have a very gentle IT Pro explain to me that "Nothing Works" didn't help him identify the problem and that I needed to use more descriptive sentences.
Huh. Every place I've ever worked, IT end up being the tail wagging the dog, holding the entire place to ransom essentially for some ridiculous process. I once had to cancel an exam because nothing worked and the IT dept were in their weekly meeting. I mean, screw 200 students and staff, because 10 people have to have a meeting..... And this was an exam they knew about in advance because I'd contacted them to make sure everything was operational!
On the "you're going to have to tell me more than that" front - I just got asked in the elevator "What's the status on that request <Person who no longer works here> made 2 months ago?". I replied "What was it about?". Answer "I don't remember, and it is none of the things you found in your email from this person and sent to me".Just a note: many IT people deal with people who regularly describe the problem as "nothing works". I was lucky enough early on in my career to have a very gentle IT Pro explain to me that "Nothing Works" didn't help him identify the problem and that I needed to use more descriptive sentences.
Huh. Every place I've ever worked, IT end up being the tail wagging the dog, holding the entire place to ransom essentially for some ridiculous process. I once had to cancel an exam because nothing worked and the IT dept were in their weekly meeting. I mean, screw 200 students and staff, because 10 people have to have a meeting..... And this was an exam they knew about in advance because I'd contacted them to make sure everything was operational!
User error :)On the "you're going to have to tell me more than that" front - I just got asked in the elevator "What's the status on that request <Person who no longer works here> made 2 months ago?". I replied "What was it about?". Answer "I don't remember, and it is none of the things you found in your email from this person and sent to me".Just a note: many IT people deal with people who regularly describe the problem as "nothing works". I was lucky enough early on in my career to have a very gentle IT Pro explain to me that "Nothing Works" didn't help him identify the problem and that I needed to use more descriptive sentences.
Huh. Every place I've ever worked, IT end up being the tail wagging the dog, holding the entire place to ransom essentially for some ridiculous process. I once had to cancel an exam because nothing worked and the IT dept were in their weekly meeting. I mean, screw 200 students and staff, because 10 people have to have a meeting..... And this was an exam they knew about in advance because I'd contacted them to make sure everything was operational!
Well, the answer to this one should be pretty straightforward. "Oh, now I remember. We found it was user error and everything is working exactly as it should now." :)
User error :)On the "you're going to have to tell me more than that" front - I just got asked in the elevator "What's the status on that request <Person who no longer works here> made 2 months ago?". I replied "What was it about?". Answer "I don't remember, and it is none of the things you found in your email from this person and sent to me".Just a note: many IT people deal with people who regularly describe the problem as "nothing works". I was lucky enough early on in my career to have a very gentle IT Pro explain to me that "Nothing Works" didn't help him identify the problem and that I needed to use more descriptive sentences.
Huh. Every place I've ever worked, IT end up being the tail wagging the dog, holding the entire place to ransom essentially for some ridiculous process. I once had to cancel an exam because nothing worked and the IT dept were in their weekly meeting. I mean, screw 200 students and staff, because 10 people have to have a meeting..... And this was an exam they knew about in advance because I'd contacted them to make sure everything was operational!
Well, the answer to this one should be pretty straightforward. "Oh, now I remember. We found it was user error and everything is working exactly as it should now." :)
User error :)On the "you're going to have to tell me more than that" front - I just got asked in the elevator "What's the status on that request <Person who no longer works here> made 2 months ago?". I replied "What was it about?". Answer "I don't remember, and it is none of the things you found in your email from this person and sent to me".Just a note: many IT people deal with people who regularly describe the problem as "nothing works". I was lucky enough early on in my career to have a very gentle IT Pro explain to me that "Nothing Works" didn't help him identify the problem and that I needed to use more descriptive sentences.
Huh. Every place I've ever worked, IT end up being the tail wagging the dog, holding the entire place to ransom essentially for some ridiculous process. I once had to cancel an exam because nothing worked and the IT dept were in their weekly meeting. I mean, screw 200 students and staff, because 10 people have to have a meeting..... And this was an exam they knew about in advance because I'd contacted them to make sure everything was operational!
Well, the answer to this one should be pretty straightforward. "Oh, now I remember. We found it was user error and everything is working exactly as it should now." :)
Me: "It's a PEBKAC Issue."
Them: "Pebkac? What is a pebkac?"
Me: "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair"
User error :)On the "you're going to have to tell me more than that" front - I just got asked in the elevator "What's the status on that request <Person who no longer works here> made 2 months ago?". I replied "What was it about?". Answer "I don't remember, and it is none of the things you found in your email from this person and sent to me".Just a note: many IT people deal with people who regularly describe the problem as "nothing works". I was lucky enough early on in my career to have a very gentle IT Pro explain to me that "Nothing Works" didn't help him identify the problem and that I needed to use more descriptive sentences.
Huh. Every place I've ever worked, IT end up being the tail wagging the dog, holding the entire place to ransom essentially for some ridiculous process. I once had to cancel an exam because nothing worked and the IT dept were in their weekly meeting. I mean, screw 200 students and staff, because 10 people have to have a meeting..... And this was an exam they knew about in advance because I'd contacted them to make sure everything was operational!
Well, the answer to this one should be pretty straightforward. "Oh, now I remember. We found it was user error and everything is working exactly as it should now." :)
Me: "It's a PEBKAC Issue."
Them: "Pebkac? What is a pebkac?"
Me: "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair"
Or possibly the I D ten T error.
Please, can we get back to FU stories?
Create a new thread if you wish to complain about IT.
Commercial Driver's License?
Several years ago, the Old Company (OC) I worked for was acquired by New Company (NC).so Glorious!
OC hired highly qualified and experienced people that were managed by even more highly qualified and experienced people. After the acquisition, the qualified people were given new contracts with NC (since OC technically no longer existed). The kicker was that, according to NC management, under the NC's HR policy and salary structure, most people ended up in a lower salary band...as in between 30-50% lower salary.
Over the next several months, because qualified people refused to work for less than market rates and didn't even bother applying for positions or quit, they hired on a lot of unqualified people, then expected the remaining qualified ones to manage/mentor the unqualified ones, on top of maintaining their own existing workload...all for less pay.
FU money allowed me to:
1. Refuse to sign the new contract. When the new manager brought it up and told me I HAD to sign, I asked her, "You know what I make now, and what I would make under the new contract. As a logical, well educated person, would you sign the new contract if you were me?" She smiled sheepishly and then mumbled something about HR and salary structures that couldn't be changed, and how I didn't qualify for the highest band because of years of experience or something. I didn't really hear her because I didn't care enough to listen to the excuses. I was still paid my old salary.
2. Ignore all stupid new processes. When manager brought it up, I told her she could file the paperwork on my behalf if it was really that necessary. None of the paperwork was ever filed because in reality, none of it was that necessary.
3. I was eventually called in to chat with the VP of the group (my manager's manager's manager), who was brought in from NC headquarters. She basically asked me what was wrong with me, phrased as, "You don't seem very happy...why?" So I told her why I thought all the qualified people were leaving, then handed her my resignation letter and walked out of her office.
So I told her why I thought all the qualified people were leaving, then handed her my resignation letter and walked out of her office.
3. I was eventually called in to chat with the VP of the group (my manager's manager's manager), who was brought in from NC headquarters. She basically asked me what was wrong with me, phrased as, "You don't seem very happy...why?" So I told her why I thought all the qualified people were leaving, then handed her my resignation letter and walked out of her office.
Indeed! What was the reaction like?3. I was eventually called in to chat with the VP of the group (my manager's manager's manager), who was brought in from NC headquarters. She basically asked me what was wrong with me, phrased as, "You don't seem very happy...why?" So I told her why I thought all the qualified people were leaving, then handed her my resignation letter and walked out of her office.
I bet the look on her face would be priceless. I would pay a lot of money to be in the room and observe this meeting.
Several years ago, the Old Company (OC) I worked for was acquired by New Company (NC).
OC hired highly qualified and experienced people that were managed by even more highly qualified and experienced people. After the acquisition, the qualified people were given new contracts with NC (since OC technically no longer existed). The kicker was that, according to NC management, under the NC's HR policy and salary structure, most people ended up in a lower salary band...as in between 30-50% lower salary.
Over the next several months, because qualified people refused to work for less than market rates and didn't even bother applying for positions or quit, they hired on a lot of unqualified people, then expected the remaining qualified ones to manage/mentor the unqualified ones, on top of maintaining their own existing workload...all for less pay.
FU money allowed me to:
1. Refuse to sign the new contract. When the new manager brought it up and told me I HAD to sign, I asked her, "You know what I make now, and what I would make under the new contract. As a logical, well educated person, would you sign the new contract if you were me?" She smiled sheepishly and then mumbled something about HR and salary structures that couldn't be changed, and how I didn't qualify for the highest band because of years of experience or something. I didn't really hear her because I didn't care enough to listen to the excuses. I was still paid my old salary.
2. Ignore all stupid new processes. When manager brought it up, I told her she could file the paperwork on my behalf if it was really that necessary. None of the paperwork was ever filed because in reality, none of it was that necessary.
3. I was eventually called in to chat with the VP of the group (my manager's manager's manager), who was brought in from NC headquarters. She basically asked me what was wrong with me, phrased as, "You don't seem very happy...why?" So I told her why I thought all the qualified people were leaving, then handed her my resignation letter and walked out of her office.
Indeed! What was the reaction like?3. I was eventually called in to chat with the VP of the group (my manager's manager's manager), who was brought in from NC headquarters. She basically asked me what was wrong with me, phrased as, "You don't seem very happy...why?" So I told her why I thought all the qualified people were leaving, then handed her my resignation letter and walked out of her office.
I bet the look on her face would be priceless. I would pay a lot of money to be in the room and observe this meeting.
Indeed! What was the reaction like?3. I was eventually called in to chat with the VP of the group (my manager's manager's manager), who was brought in from NC headquarters. She basically asked me what was wrong with me, phrased as, "You don't seem very happy...why?" So I told her why I thought all the qualified people were leaving, then handed her my resignation letter and walked out of her office.
I bet the look on her face would be priceless. I would pay a lot of money to be in the room and observe this meeting.
At first, she was all pretend concerned, like she had read the latest "how to manage people" book and was practicing her empathetic face. She was actually sort of aware of the problems. I just laid them out in a straightforward manner. She took notes as I talked. When I walked out with a big old smile on my face, she was kind of speechless but also kind of not surprised that this happened. They had been experiencing a steady exodus of qualified people for months before I walked.
I don't know if this involved FU money, but I hope so. Someone on their last day at Twitter shut down 45's account. It stayed down for eleven minutes.
I don't know if this involved FU money, but I hope so. Someone on their last day at Twitter shut down 45's account. It stayed down for eleven minutes.
I don't know if this involved FU money, but I hope so. Someone on their last day at Twitter shut down 45's account. It stayed down for eleven minutes.
That's brilliant. That guy has earned some serious good karma.
I don't know if this involved FU money, but I hope so. Someone on their last day at Twitter shut down 45's account. It stayed down for eleven minutes.
This is why corporations have such a ruthless policy on people leaving, to the extent some have security escort you to the door the minute you resign. Some let you know you are fired by your key-card no longer working when you arrive in the morning.
I had an old co-worker who was given a notice of termination, went to his computer, and destroyed three months of his work.
I don't know if this involved FU money, but I hope so. Someone on their last day at Twitter shut down 45's account. It stayed down for eleven minutes.
That's brilliant. That guy has earned some serious good karma.
What are you talking about? The guys name is going to be released. Future employers will not hire him due to the fact that if he ever leaves he may fuck up something at their organization. Boy he sure showed them...all of 11 minutes. What a douche monkey.
I don't know if this involved FU money, but I hope so. Someone on their last day at Twitter shut down 45's account. It stayed down for eleven minutes.
That's brilliant. That guy has earned some serious good karma.
I don't know if this involved FU money, but I hope so. Someone on their last day at Twitter shut down 45's account. It stayed down for eleven minutes.
This is why corporations have such a ruthless policy on people leaving, to the extent some have security escort you to the door the minute you resign. Some let you know you are fired by your key-card no longer working when you arrive in the morning.
I had an old co-worker who was given a notice of termination, went to his computer, and destroyed three months of his work.
I don't know if this involved FU money, but I hope so. Someone on their last day at Twitter shut down 45's account. It stayed down for eleven minutes.
That's brilliant. That guy has earned some serious good karma.
He put his ideology above the mission of his company, and in the process took a swipe at a sitting US president. Yeah, brilliant.
Statistics? More men than women in Tech.
And besides all that, "they" is still just weird when referring to a single person.
This should be impossible to do from a computer. I understand disgruntled former employees can do some damage, but every company should know this and have a robust system of data backup with multiple sources of verification to protect against accidental AND purposeful loss. Shame of the former employee, as well as the company.
Anticipatory FU story coming in:
My wife and I moved recently and last year she wasn't able to have Christmas with her family. This year, they're flying out and we'll spend some time with them; the first Christmas she'd have spent with them in a few years, and their first time visiting us.
She asked off for the 26th of December and was denied PTO - back over three months ago. So she's going to call out sick. If they fire her, so be it. It's ridiculous that with so much notice, in her line of work, she "can't" take that time off when family is in town. We've got the cash to deal with her getting fired if that's what happens. Feelsgoodman
If an employee's in some safety critical role then 26th December has to be staffed. Or if its something like retail with sales starting, or customer service on items that are commonly given as Christmas gifts. When cover is needed in cases such as those then it is usual for the newest employees to be required to take the unpopular shifts/days and that seems fair.Anticipatory FU story coming in:
My wife and I moved recently and last year she wasn't able to have Christmas with her family. This year, they're flying out and we'll spend some time with them; the first Christmas she'd have spent with them in a few years, and their first time visiting us.
She asked off for the 26th of December and was denied PTO - back over three months ago. So she's going to call out sick. If they fire her, so be it. It's ridiculous that with so much notice, in her line of work, she "can't" take that time off when family is in town. We've got the cash to deal with her getting fired if that's what happens. Feelsgoodman
Most excellent. It's a great feeling to look your boss in the eye and dare him to fire you that way. FU money is awesome. My guess is they will shrivel in fear and just let it pass. It would be dumb of them to make a big deal out of it.
If an employee's in some safety critical role then 26th December has to be staffed. Or if its something like retail with sales starting, or customer service on items that are commonly given as Christmas gifts. When cover is needed in cases such as those then it is usual for the newest employees to be required to take the unpopular shifts/days and that seems fair.Anticipatory FU story coming in:
My wife and I moved recently and last year she wasn't able to have Christmas with her family. This year, they're flying out and we'll spend some time with them; the first Christmas she'd have spent with them in a few years, and their first time visiting us.
She asked off for the 26th of December and was denied PTO - back over three months ago. So she's going to call out sick. If they fire her, so be it. It's ridiculous that with so much notice, in her line of work, she "can't" take that time off when family is in town. We've got the cash to deal with her getting fired if that's what happens. Feelsgoodman
Most excellent. It's a great feeling to look your boss in the eye and dare him to fire you that way. FU money is awesome. My guess is they will shrivel in fear and just let it pass. It would be dumb of them to make a big deal out of it.
But if its a standard office type job with nothing critical it should be entirely possible for cover by phone/internet to be arranged to be undertaken by willing employees (and perhaps paid extra for).
If an employee's in some safety critical role then 26th December has to be staffed. Or if its something like retail with sales starting, or customer service on items that are commonly given as Christmas gifts. When cover is needed in cases such as those then it is usual for the newest employees to be required to take the unpopular shifts/days and that seems fair.Anticipatory FU story coming in:
My wife and I moved recently and last year she wasn't able to have Christmas with her family. This year, they're flying out and we'll spend some time with them; the first Christmas she'd have spent with them in a few years, and their first time visiting us.
She asked off for the 26th of December and was denied PTO - back over three months ago. So she's going to call out sick. If they fire her, so be it. It's ridiculous that with so much notice, in her line of work, she "can't" take that time off when family is in town. We've got the cash to deal with her getting fired if that's what happens. Feelsgoodman
Most excellent. It's a great feeling to look your boss in the eye and dare him to fire you that way. FU money is awesome. My guess is they will shrivel in fear and just let it pass. It would be dumb of them to make a big deal out of it.
But if its a standard office type job with nothing critical it should be entirely possible for cover by phone/internet to be arranged to be undertaken by willing employees (and perhaps paid extra for).
The issue is because it's a Tuesday and that's the 'busy day' for her, arbitrarily. Not in a safety critical role, plenty of other folks to cover.
Edit: And to clarify she's been with the company for six years, but when we moved she switched offices. She is no longer the new person even by that standard...
If an employee's in some safety critical role then 26th December has to be staffed. Or if its something like retail with sales starting, or customer service on items that are commonly given as Christmas gifts. When cover is needed in cases such as those then it is usual for the newest employees to be required to take the unpopular shifts/days and that seems fair.Anticipatory FU story coming in:
My wife and I moved recently and last year she wasn't able to have Christmas with her family. This year, they're flying out and we'll spend some time with them; the first Christmas she'd have spent with them in a few years, and their first time visiting us.
She asked off for the 26th of December and was denied PTO - back over three months ago. So she's going to call out sick. If they fire her, so be it. It's ridiculous that with so much notice, in her line of work, she "can't" take that time off when family is in town. We've got the cash to deal with her getting fired if that's what happens. Feelsgoodman
Most excellent. It's a great feeling to look your boss in the eye and dare him to fire you that way. FU money is awesome. My guess is they will shrivel in fear and just let it pass. It would be dumb of them to make a big deal out of it.
But if its a standard office type job with nothing critical it should be entirely possible for cover by phone/internet to be arranged to be undertaken by willing employees (and perhaps paid extra for).
The issue is because it's a Tuesday and that's the 'busy day' for her, arbitrarily. Not in a safety critical role, plenty of other folks to cover.
Edit: And to clarify she's been with the company for six years, but when we moved she switched offices. She is no longer the new person even by that standard...
Folks without FU money, sadly. Good for her!
I don't know if this involved FU money, but I hope so. Someone on their last day at Twitter shut down 45's account. It stayed down for eleven minutes.
That's brilliant. That guy has earned some serious good karma.
What are you talking about? The guys name is going to be released. Future employers will not hire him due to the fact that if he ever leaves he may fuck up something at their organization. Boy he sure showed them...all of 11 minutes. What a douche monkey.
I don't know if this involved FU money, but I hope so. Someone on their last day at Twitter shut down 45's account. It stayed down for eleven minutes.
That's brilliant. That guy has earned some serious good karma.
He put his ideology above the mission of his company, and in the process took a swipe at a sitting US president. Yeah, brilliant.
Can we not ruin one of the best threads on the forum with stupid political bullshit?
I'd hire him. He's got personal integrity and balls of steel. I like people that won't sit around letting crap happen and are prepared to burn something to the ground to make a point. It's not a bad thing NOT to be a yes-sir-no-sir monkey. These are the people that make things happen. The guy's just got to find himself a field where being the square peg is the advantage. I speak as a very experienced square peg. What used to be described as 'trouble maker' and 'stirrer' is now 'brought in to change the corporate culture' and 'cutting out the deadwood'.
I once worked as a cleaner at a church that was a little too celebratory of 'white culture', if you know what I mean. On the day they had a scheduled a festival of said 'white culture', a festival months in the organising, with renowned guest speakers on the subject of 'white culture', I filled every lock in the building with glue. Of course, they just called the locksmiths and the festival went ahead, but I got more than 11 minutes of annoyance for the bastards!
I don't know if this involved FU money, but I hope so. Someone on their last day at Twitter shut down 45's account. It stayed down for eleven minutes.
That's brilliant. That guy has earned some serious good karma.
What are you talking about? The guys name is going to be released. Future employers will not hire him due to the fact that if he ever leaves he may fuck up something at their organization. Boy he sure showed them...all of 11 minutes. What a douche monkey.
I agree.....would never hire this guy. Sorry, but extremely unprofessional...
But Twitter guy didn't exactly destroy anything (the account was recovered in full) and did limited damage (the account was recovered within minutes). Easier to argue he did Twitter a favour by pointing out how poor their internal security was - for which reason I suspect the chances of them taking any action against him are non-existant.I don't know if this involved FU money, but I hope so. Someone on their last day at Twitter shut down 45's account. It stayed down for eleven minutes.
That's brilliant. That guy has earned some serious good karma.
What are you talking about? The guys name is going to be released. Future employers will not hire him due to the fact that if he ever leaves he may fuck up something at their organization. Boy he sure showed them...all of 11 minutes. What a douche monkey.
I agree.....would never hire this guy. Sorry, but extremely unprofessional...
+1. It is one thing to be able to leave a crappy job and have FU money to back it up, which I think what we are celebrating here.
It is a whole different conversation when one destroy his/her work or do damages as walking out the door. This is vandalism and illegal, and that company can press charges. If you are that unhappy with you job, just leave. Why risk losing FU money - if the company press charges, I am sure hiring a lawyer are not cheap. Not to mention possibility of fine and/or jail time. How is that going to look in a resume...
And yes, no need for political rant here - there is a thread for that.
That's called vandalism.
But Twitter guy didn't exactly destroy anything (the account was recovered in full) and did limited damage (the account was recovered within minutes). Easier to argue he did Twitter a favour by pointing out how poor their internal security was - for which reason I suspect the chances of them taking any action against him are non-existant.I don't know if this involved FU money, but I hope so. Someone on their last day at Twitter shut down 45's account. It stayed down for eleven minutes.
That's brilliant. That guy has earned some serious good karma.
What are you talking about? The guys name is going to be released. Future employers will not hire him due to the fact that if he ever leaves he may fuck up something at their organization. Boy he sure showed them...all of 11 minutes. What a douche monkey.
I agree.....would never hire this guy. Sorry, but extremely unprofessional...
+1. It is one thing to be able to leave a crappy job and have FU money to back it up, which I think what we are celebrating here.
It is a whole different conversation when one destroy his/her work or do damages as walking out the door. This is vandalism and illegal, and that company can press charges. If you are that unhappy with you job, just leave. Why risk losing FU money - if the company press charges, I am sure hiring a lawyer are not cheap. Not to mention possibility of fine and/or jail time. How is that going to look in a resume...
And yes, no need for political rant here - there is a thread for that.
Also, if they did try to take action, I predict that Twitter guy would have lawyers lining up to argue that he properly took down an account which contravened Twitter rules against harassing people or issuing death threats.
I am not a lawyer, and not going to argue with you if this guy "didn't exactly destroy anything" or did, or if his "limited damage" is actually doing Twitter a favor or not.
Maybe he will have lawyers lining up pro-bono to defend him, maybe he won't, and have to spend money to defend himself. Considering Twitter has a lot more money to burn than this guy, I think we all agree if Twitter press charges, sue him, take him to court, successful or not, it can make life very difficult for this guy, right? So how is this exactly a good thing for this guy? Not to mention that I think some company will not hire him from this - I know I would not. This is not a behavior that should be rewarded imo.
I wonder how this will play out in court, if it goes that far. IMO feels a little like Robin Hood: your honor, I only rob the bank so I can give the money to the poor. If one use this type of argument, then he will not end up in jail? I think not :)
Lets go back to the topic at hand, ok? :D
.....3paragraph snip"..........
Lets go back to the topic at hand, ok? :D
Three paragraphs about whether the Twitter quitter's actions will get him in trouble, and then "Let's get back to the topic at hand"? I can support "Let's get back to the topic", but not "Here's my opinion, you guys can't give yours."
yet another snip
Also - some people fall into the Lawful Good camp, others are Chaotic Good. Sounds to me like the Chaotic Good are arguing (between gleeful guffaws) that it's an epic prank, while the Lawful Good are harrumphing that it's Not Lawful At All. I'm inclined to acknowledge the difference and accept the submission on the basis that the poster felt it was epic, because neither the Lawful nor Chaotic are going to agree about the specifics. I'd rather have an inclusive thread than one that rules too many stories out.
+1 on all counts. This is absolutely an epic FU money story whether you agree with the twitter employee's actions or not. Same as that flight attendant who took a beer, opened the emergency door, and rode to freedom.
Three paragraphs about whether the Twitter quitter's actions will get him in trouble, and then "Let's get back to the topic at hand"? I can support "Let's get back to the topic", but not "Here's my opinion, you guys can't give yours."
I wasn't going to comment until now. Here goes:
1. This thread is for epic FU money stories. The original poster stipulated that the money part is unknown. Arguments against the Twitter quitter have basically been "she's wrong" or "she'll be in trouble" or "I wouldn't hire her"... but no one has asserted it isn't epic.
2. Regardless of what side of the aisle you're on, if quitting your job makes thousands of random people on the internet talk about it, and your feat involves the Leader of The Free World, it's probably epic.
3. If that one's not epic, the bar's being set pretty high.
Also - some people fall into the Lawful Good camp, others are Chaotic Good. Sounds to me like the Chaotic Good are arguing (between gleeful guffaws) that it's an epic prank, while the Lawful Good are harrumphing that it's Not Lawful At All. I'm inclined to acknowledge the difference and accept the submission on the basis that the poster felt it was epic, because neither the Lawful nor Chaotic are going to agree about the specifics. I'd rather have an inclusive thread than one that rules too many stories out.
+1 on all counts. This is absolutely an epic FU money story whether you agree with the twitter employee's actions or not. Same as that flight attendant who took a beer, opened the emergency door, and rode to freedom.
Three paragraphs about whether the Twitter quitter's actions will get him in trouble, and then "Let's get back to the topic at hand"? I can support "Let's get back to the topic", but not "Here's my opinion, you guys can't give yours."
I wasn't going to comment until now. Here goes:
1. This thread is for epic FU money stories. The original poster stipulated that the money part is unknown. Arguments against the Twitter quitter have basically been "she's wrong" or "she'll be in trouble" or "I wouldn't hire her"... but no one has asserted it isn't epic.
2. Regardless of what side of the aisle you're on, if quitting your job makes thousands of random people on the internet talk about it, and your feat involves the Leader of The Free World, it's probably epic.
3. If that one's not epic, the bar's being set pretty high.
Also - some people fall into the Lawful Good camp, others are Chaotic Good. Sounds to me like the Chaotic Good are arguing (between gleeful guffaws) that it's an epic prank, while the Lawful Good are harrumphing that it's Not Lawful At All. I'm inclined to acknowledge the difference and accept the submission on the basis that the poster felt it was epic, because neither the Lawful nor Chaotic are going to agree about the specifics. I'd rather have an inclusive thread than one that rules too many stories out.
...
+1 on all counts. This is absolutely an epic FU money story whether you agree with the twitter employee's actions or not. Same as that flight attendant who took a beer, opened the emergency door, and rode to freedom.
I vaguely remember something about that, but now I need to find it again.
Anticipatory FU story coming in:Though it's great you guys can afford this, it's insane tht a single PTO day does not get approved, even when requested months in advance. Any decent vacation would end up including a Tuesday after all. What line of work is she in?
My wife and I moved recently and last year she wasn't able to have Christmas with her family. This year, they're flying out and we'll spend some time with them; the first Christmas she'd have spent with them in a few years, and their first time visiting us.
She asked off for the 26th of December and was denied PTO - back over three months ago. So she's going to call out sick. If they fire her, so be it. It's ridiculous that with so much notice, in her line of work, she "can't" take that time off when family is in town. We've got the cash to deal with her getting fired if that's what happens. Feelsgoodman
Employer won't give workers days off around christmas? I'm going to guess retail.Anticipatory FU story coming in:Though it's great you guys can afford this, it's insane tht a single PTO day does not get approved, even when requested months in advance. Any decent vacation would end up including a Tuesday after all. What line of work is she in?
My wife and I moved recently and last year she wasn't able to have Christmas with her family. This year, they're flying out and we'll spend some time with them; the first Christmas she'd have spent with them in a few years, and their first time visiting us.
She asked off for the 26th of December and was denied PTO - back over three months ago. So she's going to call out sick. If they fire her, so be it. It's ridiculous that with so much notice, in her line of work, she "can't" take that time off when family is in town. We've got the cash to deal with her getting fired if that's what happens. Feelsgoodman
Employer won't give workers days off around christmas? I'm going to guess retail.Anticipatory FU story coming in:Though it's great you guys can afford this, it's insane tht a single PTO day does not get approved, even when requested months in advance. Any decent vacation would end up including a Tuesday after all. What line of work is she in?
My wife and I moved recently and last year she wasn't able to have Christmas with her family. This year, they're flying out and we'll spend some time with them; the first Christmas she'd have spent with them in a few years, and their first time visiting us.
She asked off for the 26th of December and was denied PTO - back over three months ago. So she's going to call out sick. If they fire her, so be it. It's ridiculous that with so much notice, in her line of work, she "can't" take that time off when family is in town. We've got the cash to deal with her getting fired if that's what happens. Feelsgoodman
That's very sad, how's someone supposed to maintain their sanity in such an environment? Needless to say, this story is in complete contrast to Linda_Norway's thread on the topic of vacation days among US employees, and confirms my suspicion that MMMers aren't exactly representative of the general public...Employer won't give workers days off around christmas? I'm going to guess retail.Anticipatory FU story coming in:Though it's great you guys can afford this, it's insane tht a single PTO day does not get approved, even when requested months in advance. Any decent vacation would end up including a Tuesday after all. What line of work is she in?
My wife and I moved recently and last year she wasn't able to have Christmas with her family. This year, they're flying out and we'll spend some time with them; the first Christmas she'd have spent with them in a few years, and their first time visiting us.
She asked off for the 26th of December and was denied PTO - back over three months ago. So she's going to call out sick. If they fire her, so be it. It's ridiculous that with so much notice, in her line of work, she "can't" take that time off when family is in town. We've got the cash to deal with her getting fired if that's what happens. Feelsgoodman
Logistics
This whole Christmas time off thing makes me remember something. So, my big sis has been working at the same insurance company (small town, she's the office manager) for 30+ years now. There are now 4-5 ladies working at the office for the two insurance salesmen. In any event, my sister gets first dibs on vacation time (and while her pay is crap, she gets 5 weeks off a year - way better than me). So she always chooses the same week at Christmas.That's very sad, how's someone supposed to maintain their sanity in such an environment? Needless to say, this story is in complete contrast to Linda_Norway's thread on the topic of vacation days among US employees, and confirms my suspicion that MMMers aren't exactly representative of the general public...Employer won't give workers days off around christmas? I'm going to guess retail.Anticipatory FU story coming in:Though it's great you guys can afford this, it's insane tht a single PTO day does not get approved, even when requested months in advance. Any decent vacation would end up including a Tuesday after all. What line of work is she in?
My wife and I moved recently and last year she wasn't able to have Christmas with her family. This year, they're flying out and we'll spend some time with them; the first Christmas she'd have spent with them in a few years, and their first time visiting us.
She asked off for the 26th of December and was denied PTO - back over three months ago. So she's going to call out sick. If they fire her, so be it. It's ridiculous that with so much notice, in her line of work, she "can't" take that time off when family is in town. We've got the cash to deal with her getting fired if that's what happens. Feelsgoodman
Logistics
This whole Christmas time off thing makes me remember something. So, my big sis has been working at the same insurance company (small town, she's the office manager) for 30+ years now. There are now 4-5 ladies working at the office for the two insurance salesmen. In any event, my sister gets first dibs on vacation time (and while her pay is crap, she gets 5 weeks off a year - way better than me). So she always chooses the same week at Christmas.That's very sad, how's someone supposed to maintain their sanity in such an environment? Needless to say, this story is in complete contrast to Linda_Norway's thread on the topic of vacation days among US employees, and confirms my suspicion that MMMers aren't exactly representative of the general public...Employer won't give workers days off around christmas? I'm going to guess retail.Anticipatory FU story coming in:Though it's great you guys can afford this, it's insane tht a single PTO day does not get approved, even when requested months in advance. Any decent vacation would end up including a Tuesday after all. What line of work is she in?
My wife and I moved recently and last year she wasn't able to have Christmas with her family. This year, they're flying out and we'll spend some time with them; the first Christmas she'd have spent with them in a few years, and their first time visiting us.
She asked off for the 26th of December and was denied PTO - back over three months ago. So she's going to call out sick. If they fire her, so be it. It's ridiculous that with so much notice, in her line of work, she "can't" take that time off when family is in town. We've got the cash to deal with her getting fired if that's what happens. Feelsgoodman
Logistics
That means nobody else gets to take it. Or only one other person. We had a convo once and she said that she gets first pick because of seniority. But the funny thing is, second in seniority is a woman who has been there ONE YEAR LESS. So this lady basically gets screwed every year.
This whole Christmas time off thing makes me remember something. So, my big sis has been working at the same insurance company (small town, she's the office manager) for 30+ years now. There are now 4-5 ladies working at the office for the two insurance salesmen. In any event, my sister gets first dibs on vacation time (and while her pay is crap, she gets 5 weeks off a year - way better than me). So she always chooses the same week at Christmas.
That means nobody else gets to take it. Or only one other person. We had a convo once and she said that she gets first pick because of seniority. But the funny thing is, second in seniority is a woman who has been there ONE YEAR LESS. So this lady basically gets screwed every year.
That's the biggest downside for me of working at a small company. Only one person can take a vacation at the time and in those type of companies there's often a strong hierarchy. Which means if you're the new person (and you can be the new person for 10 years) you're basically screwed. I'm lucky that my coworkers don't care about christmas, so I get to take the week between christmas and NYE off, but I didn't have a summer holiday. Coworkers have kids, so they want to spend that time with their kids (understandably) and I'm stuck in the office working overtime for the entire summer.
^^Karma's a bitch.^^
I would never take Christmas week off personally. That is a waste of a vacation week since there is hardly ever any work to do, and crowds everywhere. I'd rather use vacation for when other people are working.
She could share or alternate. She's using her seniority to tilt the playing field. The fact that the next senior person is only slightly less senior kinda makes it sound like she revels in her seniority, which is not pretty or kind, hence Karma.^^Karma's a bitch.^^I'm confused by this comment...
That's the biggest downside for me of working at a small company. Only one person can take a vacation at the time and in those type of companies there's often a strong hierarchy. Which means if you're the new person (and you can be the new person for 10 years) you're basically screwed. I'm lucky that my coworkers don't care about christmas, so I get to take the week between christmas and NYE off, but I didn't have a summer holiday. Coworkers have kids, so they want to spend that time with their kids (understandably) and I'm stuck in the office working overtime for the entire summer.Imma, the fall is a lovely time to travel. Could you plan something for then so you have something to look forward to in the dog days of summer? I used to go to DC a lot. The best time was in early September. Lovely weather, no lines, and shoulder season rates. The kids were back in school and hadn't had time to plan their
She could share or alternate. She's using her seniority to tilt the playing field. The fact that the next senior person is only slightly less senior kinda makes it sound like she revels in her seniority, which is not pretty or kind, hence Karma.^^Karma's a bitch.^^I'm confused by this comment...
She could share or alternate. She's using her seniority to tilt the playing field. The fact that the next senior person is only slightly less senior kinda makes it sound like she revels in her seniority, which is not pretty or kind, hence Karma.^^Karma's a bitch.^^I'm confused by this comment...
ohhhh you mean it WILL get her. I thought you meant Karma was a bitch to the lady who couldn't take vacation. Maybe I'd better head back to bed.
That's the biggest downside for me of working at a small company. Only one person can take a vacation at the time and in those type of companies there's often a strong hierarchy. Which means if you're the new person (and you can be the new person for 10 years) you're basically screwed. I'm lucky that my coworkers don't care about christmas, so I get to take the week between christmas and NYE off, but I didn't have a summer holiday. Coworkers have kids, so they want to spend that time with their kids (understandably) and I'm stuck in the office working overtime for the entire summer.Imma, the fall is a lovely time to travel. Could you plan something for then so you have something to look forward to in the dog days of summer? I used to go to DC a lot. The best time was in early September. Lovely weather, no lines, and shoulder season rates. The kids were back in school and hadn't had time to plan theirrampagesfield trips yet. It was heavenly.
She could share or alternate. She's using her seniority to tilt the playing field. The fact that the next senior person is only slightly less senior kinda makes it sound like she revels in her seniority, which is not pretty or kind, hence Karma.^^Karma's a bitch.^^I'm confused by this comment...
ohhhh you mean it WILL get her. I thought you meant Karma was a bitch to the lady who couldn't take vacation. Maybe I'd better head back to bed.
[ If you really want your experience to be wonderful and uncrowded, push the limits and get there a week or two before the places are about to roll up the sidewalks for the winter. Places like the Black Hills, SD, or the coast of Maine, absolutely kick ass in the second half of September, and 80% or more of the crowds are gone. Yellowstone is another great example. They have been setting attendance records every year, and by noon on a typical mid-summer day, the place looks like a street in Manhattan. Get there the week after labor day, and it's like another planet. Without kids to accommodate, being able to take time off in fall and spring is a gift.
I don't think Dicey was claiming anywhere near enough knowledge of your sister to say she wasn't valued, or didn't have positive karma, or whatever.Thanks, ARS. You nailed it.
Just that it'd be a nice thing sometimes to let others have it as well, even if it's her "right" to claim it.
But the funny thing is, second in seniority is a woman who has been there ONE YEAR LESS. So this lady basically gets screwed every year.Uh, I'm responding to what you wrote about your sister.
But I agree. For your typical cube dweller the week or so around Christmas is where you can work half the time and accomplish twice the amount of work (no interruptions).
But I agree. For your typical cube dweller the week or so around Christmas is where you can work half the time and accomplish twice the amount of work (no interruptions).
I would prefer that too but my boss insists on closing the office for 2 whole weeks at Christmas. So everyone is forced to take leave then. It sucks. Really it's just another example of my boss being a micromanaging control freak.
^^Karma's a bitch.^^
I'm confused by this comment unless all the other ladies are mean and awful.
I would never take Christmas week off personally. That is a waste of a vacation week since there is hardly ever any work to do, and crowds everywhere. I'd rather use vacation for when other people are working.
That's the biggest downside for me of working at a small company. Only one person can take a vacation at the time and in those type of companies there's often a strong hierarchy. Which means if you're the new person (and you can be the new person for 10 years) you're basically screwed. I'm lucky that my coworkers don't care about christmas, so I get to take the week between christmas and NYE off, but I didn't have a summer holiday. Coworkers have kids, so they want to spend that time with their kids (understandably) and I'm stuck in the office working overtime for the entire summer.Imma, the fall is a lovely time to travel. Could you plan something for then so you have something to look forward to in the dog days of summer? I used to go to DC a lot. The best time was in early September. Lovely weather, no lines, and shoulder season rates. The kids were back in school and hadn't had time to plan theirrampagesfield trips yet. It was heavenly.
One of the great joys of FIREing is that we have discovered that the worker bees have a very fixed window to enjoy a whole lot of opportunities when it comes to recreation and tourism, and since you are post-unemployed, you get to enjoy the best places during the times when the masses have to stay chained to their desks. . . .
. . . If you really want your experience to be wonderful and uncrowded, push the limits and get there a week or two before the places are about to roll up the sidewalks for the winter. Places like the Black Hills, SD, or the coast of Maine, absolutely kick ass in the second half of September, and 80% or more of the crowds are gone. Yellowstone is another great example. They have been setting attendance records every year, and by noon on a typical mid-summer day, the place looks like a street in Manhattan. Get there the week after labor day, and it's like another planet. Without kids to accommodate, being able to take time off in fall and spring is a gift.
But I agree. For your typical cube dweller the week or so around Christmas is where you can work half the time and accomplish twice the amount of work (no interruptions).
I would prefer that too but my boss insists on closing the office for 2 whole weeks at Christmas. So everyone is forced to take leave then. It sucks. Really it's just another example of my boss being a micromanaging control freak.
But I agree. For your typical cube dweller the week or so around Christmas is where you can work half the time and accomplish twice the amount of work (no interruptions).
I would prefer that too but my boss insists on closing the office for 2 whole weeks at Christmas. So everyone is forced to take leave then. It sucks. Really it's just another example of my boss being a micromanaging control freak.
Perhaps a good example of having FU money... you can walk away from this sucky job....
I absolutely LOVE traveling in September because typically the weather in the US/Europe is still quite pleasant and there are far fewer tourists around. Best spots I've been in September include Lake Tahoe, the Montana/Wyoming/South Dakota national and state parks (yes, paddedhat, including the Black Hills!), Italy, Greece, and Portugal. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE September vacations!We homeschool our kids, and my work schedule is flexible, so we have the freedom to travel when we want as well. Last time, we hid Disney World in late January/early February. The weather was beautiful (cool in the morning, warm but comfortable in the afternoon), the crowds were light, and the hotel rates were cheaper :)
But I agree. For your typical cube dweller the week or so around Christmas is where you can work half the time and accomplish twice the amount of work (no interruptions).
I would prefer that too but my boss insists on closing the office for 2 whole weeks at Christmas. So everyone is forced to take leave then. It sucks. Really it's just another example of my boss being a micromanaging control freak.
Perhaps a good example of having FU money... you can walk away from this sucky job....
;) soon. I'm working on it. Sticking it out at the moment as it's bearable. But once I get my long service leave paid out, I'll be looking seriously. It probably won't be epic though.
But I agree. For your typical cube dweller the week or so around Christmas is where you can work half the time and accomplish twice the amount of work (no interruptions).
I would prefer that too but my boss insists on closing the office for 2 whole weeks at Christmas. So everyone is forced to take leave then. It sucks. Really it's just another example of my boss being a micromanaging control freak.
Perhaps a good example of having FU money... you can walk away from this sucky job....
;) soon. I'm working on it. Sticking it out at the moment as it's bearable. But once I get my long service leave paid out, I'll be looking seriously. It probably won't be epic though.
Sometimes the epic part is NOT throwing a fit and quitting. I am very proud of the fact that I haven't decked my manager yet. That self control is entirely due to FU money (it's better for me long term right now to stay where I am while job searching).
That is true. The position is very convenient and the pay is nice. It's not really the job from hell. I'm just really bored and my boss is a micromanager. I really shouldn't complain. I restrain from throwing my computer at my boss's head.Real purpose of laptop docking stations - makes throwing the computer at boss' head a little more difficult.
^^Karma's a bitch.^^
I'm confused by this comment unless all the other ladies are mean and awful.
I would never take Christmas week off personally. That is a waste of a vacation week since there is hardly ever any work to do, and crowds everywhere. I'd rather use vacation for when other people are working.
But I agree. For your typical cube dweller the week or so around Christmas is where you can work half the time and accomplish twice the amount of work (no interruptions).
I would prefer that too but my boss insists on closing the office for 2 whole weeks at Christmas. So everyone is forced to take leave then. It sucks. Really it's just another example of my boss being a micromanaging control freak.
Perhaps a good example of having FU money... you can walk away from this sucky job....
;) soon. I'm working on it. Sticking it out at the moment as it's bearable. But once I get my long service leave paid out, I'll be looking seriously. It probably won't be epic though.
Sometimes the epic part is NOT throwing a fit and quitting. I am very proud of the fact that I haven't decked my manager yet. That self control is entirely due to FU money (it's better for me long term right now to stay where I am while job searching).
That is true. The position is very convenient and the pay is nice. It's not really the job from hell. I'm just really bored and my boss is a micromanager. I really shouldn't complain. I restrain from throwing my computer at my boss's head.
But I agree. For your typical cube dweller the week or so around Christmas is where you can work half the time and accomplish twice the amount of work (no interruptions).
I would prefer that too but my boss insists on closing the office for 2 whole weeks at Christmas. So everyone is forced to take leave then. It sucks. Really it's just another example of my boss being a micromanaging control freak.
Perhaps a good example of having FU money... you can walk away from this sucky job....
;) soon. I'm working on it. Sticking it out at the moment as it's bearable. But once I get my long service leave paid out, I'll be looking seriously. It probably won't be epic though.
Sometimes the epic part is NOT throwing a fit and quitting. I am very proud of the fact that I haven't decked my manager yet. That self control is entirely due to FU money (it's better for me long term right now to stay where I am while job searching).
That is true. The position is very convenient and the pay is nice. It's not really the job from hell. I'm just really bored and my boss is a micromanager. I really shouldn't complain. I restrain from throwing my computer at my boss's head.
Oh yes. Tomorrow is going to strain my self control to some extent. However, I will not throw the laptop at the manager. I will also not tell the manager that she's a control freak.
Edit:
Heard from one recruiter, that company wants me to do a 2nd interview when they normally only do 1sts. Because they've got multiple teams fighting to make me an offer and they don't know which team I'd do best at.
Got a voicemail from another recruiter, call her. Ok, I'll call her. Because that's the company I really prefer, and if they want a 2nd interview, I'll make it happen.
Send good thoughts please....
Send good thoughts please....Consider it done.
That's the biggest downside for me of working at a small company. Only one person can take a vacation at the time and in those type of companies there's often a strong hierarchy. Which means if you're the new person (and you can be the new person for 10 years) you're basically screwed. I'm lucky that my coworkers don't care about christmas, so I get to take the week between christmas and NYE off, but I didn't have a summer holiday. Coworkers have kids, so they want to spend that time with their kids (understandably) and I'm stuck in the office working overtime for the entire summer.Imma, the fall is a lovely time to travel. Could you plan something for then so you have something to look forward to in the dog days of summer? I used to go to DC a lot. The best time was in early September. Lovely weather, no lines, and shoulder season rates. The kids were back in school and hadn't had time to plan theirrampagesfield trips yet. It was heavenly.
Send good thoughts please....
Sometimes the epic part is NOT throwing a fit and quitting. I am very proud of the fact that I haven't decked my manager yet. That self control is entirely due to FU money (it's better for me long term right now to stay where I am while job searching).
Here is a short one that will warm your heart. Longtime friend and former coworker works at megacorp. He works from home in IT but in the bizarro world of LIMS systems for pharmaceutical company. Supports a dozen or so sites around the world and is sharp as a tack, easily 3-4x the productivity of the average Joe. He makes very good 6 figure income, bonus, LTI in a LCOL area. He is 49, paid off house, completely FI and a single part time dad.
His boss dumps a metric ass load of work on him and she laughs about it. The laughing part was an error.
He says, "you know, I think I am going to just retire or go part time. I really am working too many hours now and this ass load of work you laugh about is really not funny. I might be convinced to work a maximum of 20 hours a week with no travel, no stupid meetings, and no overtime. And I mean no overtime!" She freaks out and is flying in next week to talk about it. My guess is he will tell her he is done and she can take her ass load of work to some other donkey or he will consult at $250-300 an hour when he feels like it. I asked him if he uses a sling to support his enormous balls. :) details to follow.
Here is a short one that will warm your heart. Longtime friend and former coworker works at megacorp. He works from home in IT but in the bizarro world of LIMS systems for pharmaceutical company. Supports a dozen or so sites around the world and is sharp as a tack, easily 3-4x the productivity of the average Joe. He makes very good 6 figure income, bonus, LTI in a LCOL area. He is 49, paid off house, completely FI and a single part time dad.
His boss dumps a metric ass load of work on him and she laughs about it. The laughing part was an error.
He says, "you know, I think I am going to just retire or go part time. I really am working too many hours now and this ass load of work you laugh about is really not funny. I might be convinced to work a maximum of 20 hours a week with no travel, no stupid meetings, and no overtime. And I mean no overtime!" She freaks out and is flying in next week to talk about it. My guess is he will tell her he is done and she can take her ass load of work to some other donkey or he will consult at $250-300 an hour when he feels like it. I asked him if he uses a sling to support his enormous balls. :) details to follow.
Here is a short one that will warm your heart. Longtime friend and former coworker works at megacorp. He works from home in IT but in the bizarro world of LIMS systems for pharmaceutical company. Supports a dozen or so sites around the world and is sharp as a tack, easily 3-4x the productivity of the average Joe. He makes very good 6 figure income, bonus, LTI in a LCOL area. He is 49, paid off house, completely FI and a single part time dad.
His boss dumps a metric ass load of work on him and she laughs about it. The laughing part was an error.
He says, "you know, I think I am going to just retire or go part time. I really am working too many hours now and this ass load of work you laugh about is really not funny. I might be convinced to work a maximum of 20 hours a week with no travel, no stupid meetings, and no overtime. And I mean no overtime!" She freaks out and is flying in next week to talk about it. My guess is he will tell her he is done and she can take her ass load of work to some other donkey or he will consult at $250-300 an hour when he feels like it. I asked him if he uses a sling to support his enormous balls. :) details to follow.
Here is a short one that will warm your heart. Longtime friend and former coworker works at megacorp. He works from home in IT but in the bizarro world of LIMS systems for pharmaceutical company. Supports a dozen or so sites around the world and is sharp as a tack, easily 3-4x the productivity of the average Joe. He makes very good 6 figure income, bonus, LTI in a LCOL area. He is 49, paid off house, completely FI and a single part time dad.
His boss dumps a metric ass load of work on him and she laughs about it. The laughing part was an error.
He says, "you know, I think I am going to just retire or go part time. I really am working too many hours now and this ass load of work you laugh about is really not funny. I might be convinced to work a maximum of 20 hours a week with no travel, no stupid meetings, and no overtime. And I mean no overtime!" She freaks out and is flying in next week to talk about it. My guess is he will tell her he is done and she can take her ass load of work to some other donkey or he will consult at $250-300 an hour when he feels like it. I asked him if he uses a sling to support his enormous balls. :) details to follow.
Today in Missing The Headline: What is LTI?
Statistics? More men than women in Tech.
Haven't you heard? Tech companies only hire white and Asian non-citizen liberal males between the ages of 22 and 36. It's built into the hiring practices to oppress everyone else.Statistics? More men than women in Tech.
Statistically speaking, men supported Trump and women didn't, so I think it's more likely that the person who shut down Trump's twitter feed for 11 minutes was female. And Hispanic. And queer. And an overweight immigrant veteran small business owner with a belief in democracy and civil liberties.
Update: I've been told I'm getting an offer from the 2nd choice company. We will see what it looks like. No word back from the flaky recruiter, so I assume that's off the table. I do like them, so assuming I like the offer and we can make the start date work out, I'll accept.YES!!!! Congrats.
Update: I've been told I'm getting an offer from the 2nd choice company. We will see what it looks like. No word back from the flaky recruiter, so I assume that's off the table. I do like them, so assuming I like the offer and we can make the start date work out, I'll accept.
Statistics? More men than women in Tech.
Statistically speaking, men supported Trump and women didn't, so I think it's more likely that the person who shut down Trump's twitter feed for 11 minutes was female. And Hispanic. And queer. And an overweight immigrant veteran small business owner with a belief in democracy and civil liberties.
Statistics? More men than women in Tech.
Statistically speaking, men supported Trump and women didn't, so I think it's more likely that the person who shut down Trump's twitter feed for 11 minutes was female. And Hispanic. And queer. And an overweight immigrant veteran small business owner with a belief in democracy and civil liberties.
Well... That statement has been making me laugh over and over. Though have we ruled out Clinton's personal emails and the FBI?
Statistics? More men than women in Tech.
Statistically speaking, men supported Trump and women didn't, so I think it's more likely that the person who shut down Trump's twitter feed for 11 minutes was female. And Hispanic. And queer. And an overweight immigrant veteran small business owner with a belief in democracy and civil liberties.
Well... That statement has been making me laugh over and over. Though have we ruled out Clinton's personal emails and the FBI?
Are we sure the Potus account was specifically targetted? Is it possible that someone threw a switch deactivating all accounts that start with a "P" because of an ex-romantic partner or something, and didn't even realize it would get the one account everyone watches?
Statistics? More men than women in Tech.
Statistically speaking, men supported Trump and women didn't, so I think it's more likely that the person who shut down Trump's twitter feed for 11 minutes was female. And Hispanic. And queer. And an overweight immigrant veteran small business owner with a belief in democracy and civil liberties.
Well... That statement has been making me laugh over and over. Though have we ruled out Clinton's personal emails and the FBI?
Are we sure the Potus account was specifically targetted? Is it possible that someone threw a switch deactivating all accounts that start with a "P" because of an ex-romantic partner or something, and didn't even realize it would get the one account everyone watches?
I'm pretty sure we're not sure, since there's only one case and we're applying population-level statistical level generalizations plus Sol-level humor.
Personally I'm intrigued by the statistical "reasoning" but suspect the reasoning given is incorrect. I wish I knew Bayesian analysis better and could apply it somehow before the actual identity of the person emerges. More primitively, my first take is to apply case rates (actual numbers out of the air, better research welcome):
80% male/female ratio in tech
60% males vote Trump, 60% women Clinton
Resultant tech voters: 48% male for Trump, 32% male for Clinton, 8% female for Trump, 12% female for Clinton.
Combined result: Of 44% for Clinton, 32 male to 12 female, giving 8 to 3 odds that the Twitter quitter is male.
Obviously a less gender rigid analysis would be better. Nonetheless the heavy skew toward men in tech appears to predominate, making it more likely that the Twitter quitter is male.
Thoughts?
Thoughts? Please take that crap elsewhere. This thread is about Epic FU money stories related to jobs. It has been awesome. You're ruining the vibe.
Yep back to FU Money Stories please.Thoughts? Please take that crap elsewhere. This thread is about Epic FU money stories related to jobs. It has been awesome. You're ruining the vibe.
Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, YES.
I might have one coming up, I applied for an extra weeks leave for the week before Christmas and I was told that this was approved but may be subject to change due to us being a bit short staffed. If they try and cancel my leave I will say ‘sorry, I can’t cancel it, I have already made plans’ I’ll keep you posted if that happens.
Not generally but there has been a fairly recent change of management and there is some pressure to get more done with less. We will see what happens, it’s hard to push back while trying to put out a ‘keen’ vibe (to get promoted and earn more $$$) and when everyone else seems to think it’s the norm to work an extra hour or two a day.I might have one coming up, I applied for an extra weeks leave for the week before Christmas and I was told that this was approved but may be subject to change due to us being a bit short staffed. If they try and cancel my leave I will say ‘sorry, I can’t cancel it, I have already made plans’ I’ll keep you posted if that happens.
That sounds like an odd definition of "approved". Are they a chaotic place to work generally?
Not generally but there has been a fairly recent change of management and there is some pressure to get more done with less. We will see what happens, it’s hard to push back while trying to put out a ‘keen’ vibe (to get promoted and earn more $$$) and when everyone else seems to think it’s the norm to work an extra hour or two a day.
I never wanted a job in Washington DC but I took a gov job there that I ended up hating. Then I got complacent after 2 years. No one stateside offered near as much as I made there. At the end of Aug/Sep I was offered a job overseas that I used to do years ago. One that I enjoyed doing. If I didn't have my savings and wasn't already FI then I wouldn't have been able to move very quickly.
I ended up selling my new car with a $4k loss. Had to pay the difference to the bank... Also had to get rid of my apartment that had a few thousand dollars in fees to break the lease early.
Moving quickly cost me about $10-$15k but I should be able to make it up quickly with my new position where rent is paid.
Enigma's story reminds me of a similar story of my own. I don't know if I consider mine epic, but having FU money rocks!
I was working a job, that I actually really enjoyed, but along came an opportunity to take a position that paid almost double per hour what I was making. The risk was that it was an open ended contract, with a possibility of termination on short notice if the project were to complete or get cancelled. It was a big opportunity to get to FIRE faster, and having enough FU money in place I was willing to take the risk. Now its been 2 years and I'm still in the open ended contract. At the moment it looks like the project I'm working on will continue for at least a few more years, paid off pretty well. Brought my projected FIRE date from 10yrs to 5yrs... Maybe even sooner, we shall see : )
That would be awesome if you finished before the contract ended :D.
Is it wrong that I'm enjoying the prospect of the havoc my leaving is going to cause, particularly the timing? This is better than using my FU money!
Is it wrong that I'm enjoying the prospect of the havoc my leaving is going to cause, particularly the timing? This is better than using my FU money!
If they have underpaid you, under-appreciated you, or treated you badly then no, I'm going to tell you it's not wrong.
Congratulations on the new job!
Is it wrong that I'm enjoying the prospect of the havoc my leaving is going to cause, particularly the timing? This is better than using my FU money!
If they have underpaid you, under-appreciated you, or treated you badly then no, I'm going to tell you it's not wrong.
Congratulations on the new job!
+1 I once turned down a fabulous new job offer because I felt my leaving would be too disruptive to my (then) current job because of all of the transitions/people leaving. A year later, job I stayed with (out of loyalty) selected my department to be eliminated from the agency so I was laid off. Lesson learned!
Is it wrong that I'm enjoying the prospect of the havoc my leaving is going to cause, particularly the timing? This is better than using my FU money!
If they have underpaid you, under-appreciated you, or treated you badly then no, I'm going to tell you it's not wrong.
Congratulations on the new job!
+1 I once turned down a fabulous new job offer because I felt my leaving would be too disruptive to my (then) current job because of all of the transitions/people leaving. A year later, job I stayed with (out of loyalty) selected my department to be eliminated from the agency so I was laid off. Lesson learned!
You shouldn't gloat over their misfortune. That can lead to a negative attitude which will slow you down. You won't be around to see it actually happen, but if you were you would see that it's not happy time for anyone involved.
You should still leave of course. Congrats on the new job!
You shouldn't gloat over their misfortune. That can lead to a negative attitude which will slow you down. You won't be around to see it actually happen, but if you were you would see that it's not happy time for anyone involved.
You should still leave of course. Congrats on the new job!
You shouldn't gloat over their misfortune. That can lead to a negative attitude which will slow you down. You won't be around to see it actually happen, but if you were you would see that it's not happy time for anyone involved.
You should still leave of course. Congrats on the new job!
Oh I think gloating is totally fine for a few days. Then yeah, move forward - onwards and upwards!
Developments!
I've officially accepted the new position, pending background check (it's a bank). Plan to give notice in December.
I've got a coworker, let's call him Alex. Alex and I are the only 2 on our team with a particular subset of experience, and a lot of it too. We're both working on a project that no one else on the team is capable of doing (that subset of experience is needed). Another team used to do this project (it's an annual thing), but they didn't have capacity so my team took it over. This project is not negotiable, and is high profile. If it goes bad, the big boss will take a lot of heat.
Alex is leaving at the end of the month. I'll be giving notice a week or two after he leaves. This project will have to go back to the original team, and they don't have capacity to handle it.
Pivoting... I'm in charge of day to day admin on the software we use. The person who is my backup - is also looking for a new job.
Is it wrong that I'm enjoying the prospect of the havoc my leaving is going to cause, particularly the timing? This is better than using my FU money!
Developments!
I've officially accepted the new position, pending background check (it's a bank). Plan to give notice in December.
I've got a coworker, let's call him Alex. Alex and I are the only 2 on our team with a particular subset of experience, and a lot of it too. We're both working on a project that no one else on the team is capable of doing (that subset of experience is needed). Another team used to do this project (it's an annual thing), but they didn't have capacity so my team took it over. This project is not negotiable, and is high profile. If it goes bad, the big boss will take a lot of heat.
Alex is leaving at the end of the month. I'll be giving notice a week or two after he leaves. This project will have to go back to the original team, and they don't have capacity to handle it.
Pivoting... I'm in charge of day to day admin on the software we use. The person who is my backup - is also looking for a new job.
Is it wrong that I'm enjoying the prospect of the havoc my leaving is going to cause, particularly the timing? This is better than using my FU money!
I have a sad lack-of-FU-money story. I ran into a coworker at a break area who's being denied a PTO request for the days between Xmas and NYE because she's "needed here". Her request was to fly home to Mexico to visit her elderly father and commemorate the anniversary of her mother's death. :-(
Nice! From "Sad" to "EPIC" in one update! Good on your coworker - even with FU money, it can be hard to pull the trigger on that type of move.I have a sad lack-of-FU-money story. I ran into a coworker at a break area who's being denied a PTO request for the days between Xmas and NYE because she's "needed here". Her request was to fly home to Mexico to visit her elderly father and commemorate the anniversary of her mother's death. :-(
Happy ending of sorts to report - as it turns out, the co-worker had FU money, so she quit! Hopefully this will be a lesson to her managers that a little flexibility would have been better. (It was one day she was "needed"! She could have done that remotely!)
I have a sad lack-of-FU-money story. I ran into a coworker at a break area who's being denied a PTO request for the days between Xmas and NYE because she's "needed here". Her request was to fly home to Mexico to visit her elderly father and commemorate the anniversary of her mother's death. :-(
Happy ending of sorts to report - as it turns out, the co-worker had FU money, so she quit! Hopefully this will be a lesson to her managers that a little flexibility would have been better. (It was one day she was "needed"! She could have done that remotely!)
I have a sad lack-of-FU-money story. I ran into a coworker at a break area who's being denied a PTO request for the days between Xmas and NYE because she's "needed here". Her request was to fly home to Mexico to visit her elderly father and commemorate the anniversary of her mother's death. :-(
Happy ending of sorts to report - as it turns out, the co-worker had FU money, so she quit! Hopefully this will be a lesson to her managers that a little flexibility would have been better. (It was one day she was "needed"! She could have done that remotely!)
I don't think I'm gloating, but point taken. I will miss most of my coworkers, and I really hope that management has a wake up call about this one manager who's driving all the experienced people out (I'll make #4 that I know of). She's good with very inexperienced staff, but not anyone who knows what they're doing.
I don't think I'm gloating, but point taken. I will miss most of my coworkers, and I really hope that management has a wake up call about this one manager who's driving all the experienced people out (I'll make #4 that I know of). She's good with very inexperienced staff, but not anyone who knows what they're doing.
Can you (and Alex, and the other person you mentioned) point out this one manager to the higher-ups on your way out? That might go some way toward helping the coworkers yo0u are leaving behind.
Congrats on the new job!
A FU story might be brewing with me.... My employer of over 13 years is changing their medical plan network for 2018, to a very restrictive network with only a small hand-full of in-network providers in Chicago. So restrictive that there isn't even a single MRI provider in-network in the entire city of Chicago, and a very minimal number of in-network facilities (a couple of hospitals, only one urgent care center within the whole city of Chicago.) Pathetic for a large employer of a skilled/professional workforce. Compounding the problem is, they removed ANY out-of-network coverage too. Not even some astoundingly-high-deductible plan. Simply no out of network coverage.
I compared the network of doctors on the employee plan with the network of doctors on the most inexpensive healthcare.gov exchange plan for 2018, and the plan on the exchange had about 3x of the network facilities in Chicago.
The kicker is, it is a global company with facilities all over the country and the world, but our office in Chicago is the only one that is subject to such a restrictive health care network. Employees in other offices of the country are retaining their same nation-wide and much larger network of providers in their medical plans. Yet our payroll premiums are the same.
I barely use the medical insurance and I am generally pretty healthy. However, I like having a medical plan that assures me that I can get care if I need it. The plan offered by my employer (and exclusively to their Chicago employees) does not reassure me that I would be able to receive quality care if I need it.
It's probably not easy to change jobs around the holidays... but a lot of companies are working through their budgets for 2018, so probably will be looking to move on in the new year.
A FU story might be brewing with me.... My employer of over 13 years is changing their medical plan network for 2018, to a very restrictive network with only a small hand-full of in-network providers in Chicago. So restrictive that there isn't even a single MRI provider in-network in the entire city of Chicago, and a very minimal number of in-network facilities (a couple of hospitals, only one urgent care center within the whole city of Chicago.) Pathetic for a large employer of a skilled/professional workforce. Compounding the problem is, they removed ANY out-of-network coverage too. Not even some astoundingly-high-deductible plan. Simply no out of network coverage.
I compared the network of doctors on the employee plan with the network of doctors on the most inexpensive healthcare.gov exchange plan for 2018, and the plan on the exchange had about 3x of the network facilities in Chicago.
The kicker is, it is a global company with facilities all over the country and the world, but our office in Chicago is the only one that is subject to such a restrictive health care network. Employees in other offices of the country are retaining their same nation-wide and much larger network of providers in their medical plans. Yet our payroll premiums are the same.
I barely use the medical insurance and I am generally pretty healthy. However, I like having a medical plan that assures me that I can get care if I need it. The plan offered by my employer (and exclusively to their Chicago employees) does not reassure me that I would be able to receive quality care if I need it.
It's probably not easy to change jobs around the holidays... but a lot of companies are working through their budgets for 2018, so probably will be looking to move on in the new year.
A FU story might be brewing with me.... My employer of over 13 years is changing their medical plan network for 2018, to a very restrictive network with only a small hand-full of in-network providers in Chicago. So restrictive that there isn't even a single MRI provider in-network in the entire city of Chicago, and a very minimal number of in-network facilities (a couple of hospitals, only one urgent care center within the whole city of Chicago.) Pathetic for a large employer of a skilled/professional workforce. Compounding the problem is, they removed ANY out-of-network coverage too. Not even some astoundingly-high-deductible plan. Simply no out of network coverage.
I compared the network of doctors on the employee plan with the network of doctors on the most inexpensive healthcare.gov exchange plan for 2018, and the plan on the exchange had about 3x of the network facilities in Chicago.
The kicker is, it is a global company with facilities all over the country and the world, but our office in Chicago is the only one that is subject to such a restrictive health care network. Employees in other offices of the country are retaining their same nation-wide and much larger network of providers in their medical plans. Yet our payroll premiums are the same.
I barely use the medical insurance and I am generally pretty healthy. However, I like having a medical plan that assures me that I can get care if I need it. The plan offered by my employer (and exclusively to their Chicago employees) does not reassure me that I would be able to receive quality care if I need it.
It's probably not easy to change jobs around the holidays... but a lot of companies are working through their budgets for 2018, so probably will be looking to move on in the new year.
I have witnessed, first-hand, what toxic jobs can do to a person's health, well-being, and relationships. Life's too short.
I spent my 20s learning that the courageous choice is the right one - to do the right thing even when it seems like a financial (emotional, relational, or general) disaster. I never look back from those choices. As one wise relative put it, "it's the things I didn't do that I regret." FU money doesn't create character - it more so magnifies whatever character is present - but it empowers you to make good choices by making those choices cheaper and easier to make. The hardest thing to do - that nags at you - is usually the one thing you need to do.
My history and FU money - and especially God - had put me in a position of strength: I was then offered jobs based upon reputation, which made finding new work easy. In fact, it was too easy: I first had to turn down things that paid well or had some attractiveness, but probably had similar demands. (Again, thanks to the FU funds for making it easier.) I love where I went next - my life is so much better - and I have never looked back. Better hours, better pay per hour, better benefits, better health care, far better work, and far less stress. Life's too short.
I wish I could share half the things I would like to here. And some others' stories, too. But alas, anonymity and all that.
However, I'll share some of my alternative uses of FU money (along the theme of this thread). To me, FU money is helpful for self-respect - it empowers you to respect yourself, your family, and your other priorities, too. On to the story part.
At the time, I had a nice-sized emergency fund and realized I could live on very little. I wasn't retired yet, and still am not (or even close), but I also realized that I didn't need to put up with the same level of nonsense I would back when I desperately needed a job (due to debt), either. Life is short -- too short for some kinds of awfulness -- as I have learned through some hard lessons over the years.
So, my FU Money empowered me to start saying "no" to nonsense. We need you to work through your holiday (on a project we have known was coming for months or weeks but didn't care enough to prepare for)? No. Move my wedding to work on a project that I asked not to be on because the deadlines were during my honeymoon? No. (With that one, I said I didn't care if I had a job or not when I came back - I would be gone, and they could figure it out. They did. And lo, I still had a job - with as much job security as ever, if not more, because they knew they needed me.) Do something unethical, even though nobody would ever know it but me? No. Put my name on something that is absolutely awful and demonstrably wrong, just to look like we're doing something about a problem? No. Find someone else.
The result: managers began internalizing the costs of their own failures - to plan, to allocate, and to care about people. The workplace improved some. I stopped hating my job every day, worrying about the next bomb that would drop. I simply said no to bombs, and started making people respect some personal boundaries. I don't check work email at 2PM on a Sunday or stay up all night for the job anymore, and that's just how it is.
After a while, the problem manager labeled me "Mr. No." I just smiled. This was ironic, as I worked hard, still put up with a good deal of the typical nonsense, and they knew this - which is why I kept getting the really tough last-minute things. However, my own boss gained tremendous respect for me as a result, and began saying no more as well.
Soon, the worst nonsense work began going elsewhere. Management learned that I would not put up with it. Eventually, I left the job anyway, even with nothing even lined up (no bridge-burning epic FU story about it; I kept it very professional, even though I told them why I left). After I left, my former colleagues called me to ask if I could help them strategize about obtaining new positions or if I could hire them now. Some simply burned out and quit. Before long, all but a few were gone. My old boss, the good one, called and offered to hire me pretty much anytime, anywhere. Others realized that I wasn't bankrupt and didn't seem too concerned, so they asked for help with finances. Sadly, I cannot imagine that it's better now for the few who remained. As former colleagues left, they opened up more, and I learned that (as I suspected) it was even worse than I knew. Most who stayed had no good options.
I have witnessed, first-hand, what toxic jobs can do to a person's health, well-being, and relationships. Life's too short.
I spent my 20s learning that the courageous choice is the right one - to do the right thing even when it seems like a financial (emotional, relational, or general) disaster. I never look back from those choices. As one wise relative put it, "it's the things I didn't do that I regret." FU money doesn't create character - it more so magnifies whatever character is present - but it empowers you to make good choices by making those choices cheaper and easier to make. The hardest thing to do - that nags at you - is usually the one thing you need to do. Over the years, those choices in my life have paid far more dividends than the rest, and continue doing so to this day. (One of them led me into a relationship with my wife, but that's another story for another blog post . . .)
And wouldn't you know: the day after I left the job, God sent me a check in the mail worth a couple of months' salary, totally unexpected. I expected, someday, a check for maybe $100. Nothing like that ever happened before in my life, and nothing like that has ever happened since. I learned a lot about not worrying, faith, and trust. Now I take each day's problems as they come, rather than worrying how the next year will turn out.
Meanwhile, that old employer never could figure out why other people wouldn't go work there, accept their offers, and so on. I did not dish on them, as you may suspect: instead, I just never recommend them. I'm sure someone else put the word out, and probably not as diplomatically as I would have.
My history and FU money - and especially God - had put me in a position of strength: I was then offered jobs based upon reputation, which made finding new work easy. In fact, it was too easy: I first had to turn down things that paid well or had some attractiveness, but probably had similar demands. (Again, thanks to the FU funds for making it easier.) I love where I went next - my life is so much better - and I have never looked back. Better hours, better pay per hour, better benefits, better health care, far better work, and far less stress. Life's too short.
A FU story might be brewing with me.... My employer of over 13 years is changing their medical plan network for 2018, to a very restrictive network with only a small hand-full of in-network providers in Chicago. So restrictive that there isn't even a single MRI provider in-network in the entire city of Chicago, and a very minimal number of in-network facilities (a couple of hospitals, only one urgent care center within the whole city of Chicago.) Pathetic for a large employer of a skilled/professional workforce. Compounding the problem is, they removed ANY out-of-network coverage too. Not even some astoundingly-high-deductible plan. Simply no out of network coverage.
I compared the network of doctors on the employee plan with the network of doctors on the most inexpensive healthcare.gov exchange plan for 2018, and the plan on the exchange had about 3x of the network facilities in Chicago.
The kicker is, it is a global company with facilities all over the country and the world, but our office in Chicago is the only one that is subject to such a restrictive health care network. Employees in other offices of the country are retaining their same nation-wide and much larger network of providers in their medical plans. Yet our payroll premiums are the same.
I barely use the medical insurance and I am generally pretty healthy. However, I like having a medical plan that assures me that I can get care if I need it. The plan offered by my employer (and exclusively to their Chicago employees) does not reassure me that I would be able to receive quality care if I need it.
It's probably not easy to change jobs around the holidays... but a lot of companies are working through their budgets for 2018, so probably will be looking to move on in the new year.
Could this be a way to force enough people out of the Chicago office so they can shut it down entirely?
I would complain to HR, at any rate. Might be that some low level HR person made a mistake when choosing the local plan. Or not. Either way, it doesn't hurt to ask, especially if you might be leaving anyway.
“God” sent you a cheque? Please elaborate on that.
The day after I decided to go, I finally prayed, quit worrying, and then I received a call. Instead of a $100 check, as we had expected, we received one for far, far more. We knew we'd be getting a tiny amount (from a settlement) but figured it was trivial. Turned out to be not as trivial. Timing couldn't have been better. Our needs were provided for - thankfully, without having dipping into our emergency fund at all. (As it happened, we wouldn't have needed the check either - we just didn't know that for a while after.)
I've always maintained a position that life is too short to waste it surrounded by toxic people. I hoped that it was rubbing off on our children, but you never know until they are faced with difficulty. My oldest boy was still in his early-teens when he got a job at a local Subway shop. He was a few weeks in, when he started telling us that the owner was a bit crazy, and obsessed with control and making sure that here minimum wage peons were giving her 110% at all times. He has always been a real hard worker, but one day his shift manager pulled him into a corner of the store for a talk. He asked why she wanted to talk in such a strange spot, and she made a paranoid comment about being "watched". He was a bit surprised by that claim, since there were no cameras anywhere. Shortly after, he was alone in the dining area, and leaning on a table for a moment, after scrubbing everything in the room to operating room standards. He heard the phone ring, then got called into the office. The manager told him that he couldn't be leaning on a table. He asked how she would possibly know that? since she couldn't see him from the office, and he is the only other person in the building? She then confessed that the place was loaded with hidden cameras, and the owner spent her time away from the store staring at the monitor in her home, micromanaging and calling to scream about who had spent more than a few seconds not working, or was doing something that deviated from exactly how she wanted it done. He told the manager that he was done, and called for us to come pick him up. I was really happy to see that he learned well. My wife OTOH, was of a much different mindset and had put up with some real abusive A-holes in some of her first jobs. She thought that he had made a big mistake. We agreed to disagree, and I congratulated him for doing the right thing.I feel like I've read this story before somewhere. Have you posted it elsewhere?
I've always maintained a position that life is too short to waste it surrounded by toxic people.
....cut....
He told the manager that he was done, and called for us to come pick him up. I was really happy to see that he learned well.
No but I seem to think it may be somewhere in my post history also.I've always maintained a position that life is too short to waste it surrounded by toxic people. I hoped that it was rubbing off on our children, but you never know until they are faced with difficulty. My oldest boy was still in his early-teens when he got a job at a local Subway shop. He was a few weeks in, when he started telling us that the owner was a bit crazy, and obsessed with control and making sure that here minimum wage peons were giving her 110% at all times. He has always been a real hard worker, but one day his shift manager pulled him into a corner of the store for a talk. He asked why she wanted to talk in such a strange spot, and she made a paranoid comment about being "watched". He was a bit surprised by that claim, since there were no cameras anywhere. Shortly after, he was alone in the dining area, and leaning on a table for a moment, after scrubbing everything in the room to operating room standards. He heard the phone ring, then got called into the office. The manager told him that he couldn't be leaning on a table. He asked how she would possibly know that? since she couldn't see him from the office, and he is the only other person in the building? She then confessed that the place was loaded with hidden cameras, and the owner spent her time away from the store staring at the monitor in her home, micromanaging and calling to scream about who had spent more than a few seconds not working, or was doing something that deviated from exactly how she wanted it done. He told the manager that he was done, and called for us to come pick him up. I was really happy to see that he learned well. My wife OTOH, was of a much different mindset and had put up with some real abusive A-holes in some of her first jobs. She thought that he had made a big mistake. We agreed to disagree, and I congratulated him for doing the right thing.I feel like I've read this story before somewhere. Have you posted it elsewhere?
I've always maintained a position that life is too short to waste it surrounded by toxic people. I hoped that it was rubbing off on our children, but you never know until they are faced with difficulty. My oldest boy was still in his early-teens when he got a job at a local Subway shop. He was a few weeks in, when he started telling us that the owner was a bit crazy, and obsessed with control and making sure that here minimum wage peons were giving her 110% at all times. He has always been a real hard worker, but one day his shift manager pulled him into a corner of the store for a talk. He asked why she wanted to talk in such a strange spot, and she made a paranoid comment about being "watched". He was a bit surprised by that claim, since there were no cameras anywhere. Shortly after, he was alone in the dining area, and leaning on a table for a moment, after scrubbing everything in the room to operating room standards. He heard the phone ring, then got called into the office. The manager told him that he couldn't be leaning on a table. He asked how she would possibly know that? since she couldn't see him from the office, and he is the only other person in the building? She then confessed that the place was loaded with hidden cameras, and the owner spent her time away from the store staring at the monitor in her home, micromanaging and calling to scream about who had spent more than a few seconds not working, or was doing something that deviated from exactly how she wanted it done. He told the manager that he was done, and called for us to come pick him up. I was really happy to see that he learned well. My wife OTOH, was of a much different mindset and had put up with some real abusive A-holes in some of her first jobs. She thought that he had made a big mistake. We agreed to disagree, and I congratulated him for doing the right thing.I feel like I've read this story before somewhere. Have you posted it elsewhere?
I've always maintained a position that life is too short to waste it surrounded by toxic people. I hoped that it was rubbing off on our children, but you never know until they are faced with difficulty. My oldest boy was still in his early-teens when he got a job at a local Subway shop. He was a few weeks in, when he started telling us that the owner was a bit crazy, and obsessed with control and making sure that here minimum wage peons were giving her 110% at all times. He has always been a real hard worker, but one day his shift manager pulled him into a corner of the store for a talk. He asked why she wanted to talk in such a strange spot, and she made a paranoid comment about being "watched". He was a bit surprised by that claim, since there were no cameras anywhere. Shortly after, he was alone in the dining area, and leaning on a table for a moment, after scrubbing everything in the room to operating room standards. He heard the phone ring, then got called into the office. The manager told him that he couldn't be leaning on a table. He asked how she would possibly know that? since she couldn't see him from the office, and he is the only other person in the building? She then confessed that the place was loaded with hidden cameras, and the owner spent her time away from the store staring at the monitor in her home, micromanaging and calling to scream about who had spent more than a few seconds not working, or was doing something that deviated from exactly how she wanted it done. He told the manager that he was done, and called for us to come pick him up. I was really happy to see that he learned well. My wife OTOH, was of a much different mindset and had put up with some real abusive A-holes in some of her first jobs. She thought that he had made a big mistake. We agreed to disagree, and I congratulated him for doing the right thing.I feel like I've read this story before somewhere. Have you posted it elsewhere?
I think hidden cameras happen a lot more than people realize.
I think hidden cameras happen a lot more than people realize.I think they're fine as long as the employees know they exist. Secret cameras are a whole 'mother story. And no cameras in bathrooms, please.
I've always maintained a position that life is too short to waste it surrounded by toxic people. I hoped that it was rubbing off on our children, but you never know until they are faced with difficulty. My oldest boy was still in his early-teens when he got a job at a local Subway shop. He was a few weeks in, when he started telling us that the owner was a bit crazy, and obsessed with control and making sure that here minimum wage peons were giving her 110% at all times. He has always been a real hard worker, but one day his shift manager pulled him into a corner of the store for a talk. He asked why she wanted to talk in such a strange spot, and she made a paranoid comment about being "watched". He was a bit surprised by that claim, since there were no cameras anywhere. Shortly after, he was alone in the dining area, and leaning on a table for a moment, after scrubbing everything in the room to operating room standards. He heard the phone ring, then got called into the office. The manager told him that he couldn't be leaning on a table. He asked how she would possibly know that? since she couldn't see him from the office, and he is the only other person in the building? She then confessed that the place was loaded with hidden cameras, and the owner spent her time away from the store staring at the monitor in her home, micromanaging and calling to scream about who had spent more than a few seconds not working, or was doing something that deviated from exactly how she wanted it done. He told the manager that he was done, and called for us to come pick him up. I was really happy to see that he learned well. My wife OTOH, was of a much different mindset and had put up with some real abusive A-holes in some of her first jobs. She thought that he had made a big mistake. We agreed to disagree, and I congratulated him for doing the right thing.I feel like I've read this story before somewhere. Have you posted it elsewhere?
I think hidden cameras happen a lot more than people realize.
After a good night's sleep (with no smoke detector chirping!), yes. Big weight off me. I talked to the manager today and it went really well. I like her personally, it's just the work stuff that is such a problem. We're focusing on transitioning my work and me wrapping up what I can. I've got fingers in a lot of pies, so it'll be complex even transitioning.It's amazing how the boss and their communication methods can make such a difference. I've had 8 bosses in my current job, and a few of them SUUUCKED so bad that honestly I would *never* work for them again. In fact, a recent position opened up that I'm interested in, right up my alley - not. gonna. do. it.
Cliff notes of the issues: manager is alternately micromanage-ey and unavailable when you need her, then when you do something perfectly reasonable, tells you that you should have checked with her first. Her written communication style reads as hypercritical and disapproving, even though I know she doesn't intend it that way. Parts of my work require intense manager involvement/review, and she regularly doesn't do this timely. By the time she gets around to it, it's the last minute and becomes a frantic effort to make the changes. Then she tells you not to be so frantic (WTF? You made massive changes to the document half an hour before I have to present it to the VP! I gave the damn thing to you 2 days ago!). While this particular combination is annoying and frustrating for my coworkers, turns out that it's toxic to me.While I like her as a person,as a manager she's a disasterfor me.
Cliff notes of the issues: manager is alternately micromanage-ey and unavailable when you need her, then when you do something perfectly reasonable, tells you that you should have checked with her first. Her written communication style reads as hypercritical and disapproving, even though I know she doesn't intend it that way. Parts of my work require intense manager involvement/review, and she regularly doesn't do this timely. By the time she gets around to it, it's the last minute and becomes a frantic effort to make the changes. Then she tells you not to be so frantic (WTF? You made massive changes to the document half an hour before I have to present it to the VP! I gave the damn thing to you 2 days ago!). While this particular combination is annoying and frustrating for my coworkers, turns out that it's toxic to me.While I like her as a person,as a manager she's a disasterfor me.
Wow, if it weren't for the parts I struck out, I'd think you were working for my old toxic boss. I call it the "swoop and poop" management style. And from personal experience, it is not fixable. You did the right thing; congratulations on getting out of there.
Cliff notes of the issues: manager is alternately micromanage-ey and unavailable when you need her, then when you do something perfectly reasonable, tells you that you should have checked with her first. Her written communication style reads as hypercritical and disapproving, even though I know she doesn't intend it that way. Parts of my work require intense manager involvement/review, and she regularly doesn't do this timely. By the time she gets around to it, it's the last minute and becomes a frantic effort to make the changes. Then she tells you not to be so frantic (WTF? You made massive changes to the document half an hour before I have to present it to the VP! I gave the damn thing to you 2 days ago!). While this particular combination is annoying and frustrating for my coworkers, turns out that it's toxic to me.While I like her as a person,as a manager she's a disasterfor me.
Wow, if it weren't for the parts I struck out, I'd think you were working for my old toxic boss. I call it the "swoop and poop" management style. And from personal experience, it is not fixable. You did the right thing; congratulations on getting out of there.
I had one of those almost twenty years ago. I knew I was stressed out, but I had no idea how bad it was until I left. The last time I saw my current manager was in August...he's very much a hands-off manager :)
2nd update for you guys - the email went out around noon that I was leaving. The entire department is pissed I'm leaving. Like, staff, managers, directors, VP, everyone. Top to bottom, bottom to top. People from different states, other teams. All of them. I've had all but one of the directors pull me into their office to try to get me to stay, the last one wasn't in the office today. Multiple managers/directors have offered to put me on their teams. The manager I really like told me she feels bad she didn't realize how bad it was (she's in another state, and I haven't really worked with her all year, why should she know?). I overheard a conversation between 2 mgrs about how they're going to tell the business areas (I'm in internal audit), I wasn't supposed to hear that one. Apparently half the damn company loves me, even the people I've been giving findings to left, right and center. The 2 directors on my team are out of town until Thursday for a conference.
Along with that, half the dept seems to know WHY I'm leaving, without me saying anything. I just keep saying I need a change, and they're like, "is it her?" What do I say to that?!?
It was a very weird day. I don't know how to feel. 8 (working) days left.
I suspect my wife may deploy our FU money in the near future.
(...)
She approached the boss and offered (I think) a fair compromise
I start early in the morning so I will make sure to work the time in lieu before the 8th and take a half-day instead.
Boss refused, stating that my wife starts early anyway so it doesn't count.
Mrs UK does start over an hour early (to avoid traffic) so is contracted to 8 hours per day and works 9.5 hours... every single day.
This has really annoyed Mrs UK because:
- This boss turns up late most days, including today (the day after this argument)
- The boss appears to have decided that Mrs UK's voluntary (unpaid) overtime is the companies right
- Mrs UK often works over weekends and late into the evening to get things done, so now feels very under appreciated
- We now need to completely re-arrange our travel, my dad will need a day off to travel early instead (self-employed so won't get paid)
She is friendly with one of the directors and is going to raise the issue with him. If the company don't sort it, they are probably going to lose her!
She has to stop working for free. Especially when it isn't even appriciated. Put in the 8 hours, not a second more. If you get no flexibility, you have to stop giving flexibility.
I have no problem being flexible at work, putting in 60 hour weeks when necessary, work late saturday and sunday nights to reach deadlines, etc. But every single of those hours get written down, and I will either receive OT for them, or take PTO. Usually, i end up with 7 weeks of summer holidays, and long weekends whenever it suits me.
If I want to work for free, I will volunteer at an NGO.
She has to stop working for free. Especially when it isn't even appriciated. Put in the 8 hours, not a second more. If you get no flexibility, you have to stop giving flexibility.
I have no problem being flexible at work, putting in 60 hour weeks when necessary, work late saturday and sunday nights to reach deadlines, etc. But every single of those hours get written down, and I will either receive OT for them, or take PTO. Usually, i end up with 7 weeks of summer holidays, and long weekends whenever it suits me.
If I want to work for free, I will volunteer at an NGO.
I agree, that is the same advice I gave her.
I've also said that it's cool if she wants to join a gym near work, so she can still do the journey early but doesn't have to go into the office. If she sets off at 6am the drive takes 25-30 minutes, if she sets off at 7am it takes 1.5 hours.
If it were me, I'd stay in bed and set off after 7am... if the boss gave me a hard time when I was late I'd say they should lead by example... but I'm a dick and Mrs UK isn't :D
She regularly works with the director she is friendly with before official office hours start... I also said that next time he approaches her she should explain that she is in the office but not available for work because her boss said it doesn't count!
I think hidden cameras happen a lot more than people realize.I think they're fine as long as the employees know they exist. Secret cameras are a whole 'mother story. And no cameras in bathrooms, please.
I know someone who owns multiple donut stores. They're full of cameras, so he can check on them from anywhere with his phone. IDK if the line staff knows about them, but I'm sure his managers do.
I suspect my wife may deploy our FU money in the near future.
(...)
She approached the boss and offered (I think) a fair compromise
I start early in the morning so I will make sure to work the time in lieu before the 8th and take a half-day instead.
Boss refused, stating that my wife starts early anyway so it doesn't count.
Mrs UK does start over an hour early (to avoid traffic) so is contracted to 8 hours per day and works 9.5 hours... every single day.
This has really annoyed Mrs UK because:
- This boss turns up late most days, including today (the day after this argument)
- The boss appears to have decided that Mrs UK's voluntary (unpaid) overtime is the companies right
- Mrs UK often works over weekends and late into the evening to get things done, so now feels very under appreciated
- We now need to completely re-arrange our travel, my dad will need a day off to travel early instead (self-employed so won't get paid)
She is friendly with one of the directors and is going to raise the issue with him. If the company don't sort it, they are probably going to lose her!
She has to stop working for free. Especially when it isn't even appriciated. Put in the 8 hours, not a second more. If you get no flexibility, you have to stop giving flexibility.
I have no problem being flexible at work, putting in 60 hour weeks when necessary, work late saturday and sunday nights to reach deadlines, etc. But every single of those hours get written down, and I will either receive OT for them, or take PTO. Usually, i end up with 7 weeks of summer holidays, and long weekends whenever it suits me.
If I want to work for free, I will volunteer at an NGO.
I suspect my wife may deploy our FU money in the near future.
She has a new boss and though Mrs UK often sees the best in people, she hates this person.
New bosses management style includes screaming at staff on a regular basis, reducing people to tears in meetings, blaming others for errors and stealing credit for accomplishments.
The latest issue is petty but incredibly annoying, it prompted Mrs UK to ask me if we will be okay if she quits... we will, by cutting some luxuries we can survive indefinitely on my salary!
Approaching Christmas her team (purchasing) are extremely busy and need to cover certain weekends (black Friday etc).
The rota was agreed 4 months ago, my wife would work Sunday 26th November in exchange for leave on Friday 8th December. We are going on a family holiday for my mum's birthday and as Mrs UK and I had the 8th booked off, we agreed to drive down before everyone else and collect the keys for the cottage, put up some decorations etc.
On Friday 24th November (2 days before) IT issues crippled the online sales and an emergency 'queuing' system was put in place for the weekend. This meant Sunday overtime was no longer required as sales were restricted.
As my wife couldn't work the Sunday, she hasn't got the available leave for the 8th December.
She approached the boss and offered (I think) a fair compromise
I start early in the morning so I will make sure to work the time in lieu before the 8th and take a half-day instead.
Boss refused, stating that my wife starts early anyway so it doesn't count.
Mrs UK does start over an hour early (to avoid traffic) so is contracted to 8 hours per day and works 9.5 hours... every single day.
This has really annoyed Mrs UK because:
- This boss turns up late most days, including today (the day after this argument)
- The boss appears to have decided that Mrs UK's voluntary (unpaid) overtime is the companies right
- Mrs UK often works over weekends and late into the evening to get things done, so now feels very under appreciated
- We now need to completely re-arrange our travel, my dad will need a day off to travel early instead (self-employed so won't get paid)
She is friendly with one of the directors and is going to raise the issue with him. If the company don't sort it, they are probably going to lose her!
Thanks for this, I’ve been doing free overtime also, must stop doing that.
If I want to work for free, I will volunteer at an NGO.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
OMG -- you are an internal auditor and she was asking for last minute changes? RECIPE FOR DISASTER!!!! No wonder you were stressed. That kind of management style is bad in all circumstances, but lethal in that kind of an environment.
Ultimately the problem is above her, though. I bet she was a great individual performer. Just shouldn't have been promoted.
OMG -- you are an internal auditor and she was asking for last minute changes?
I basically had a breakdown last night. I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn't care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn't. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone's reaction to my leaving, that they really didn't get it, and I couldn't process that contradiction (still can't really). I got 2 hours sleep last night, and spent the whole train ride in crying. I didn't go to work. I ended up texting a friend (different dept), and she came down for a bit and we talked. Mostly, she helped me calm down a bit. She helped me text in that I was taking the day off, and looked up the train schedule for me. I went home and went back to bed. The cats were very surprised, but happily napped with me.
After getting some sleep (still a mess, but at least I'm semi-functional now), I'm stuck with 2 basic facts. 1. I don't actually want to leave, and 2. even if they make the changes that I've been told they're planning and switched my manager, I don't think it would be enough to fix ME. Because this is NOT me, I don't do this. I am more important than any job, so I'm still leaving. Unfortunately, in my decidedly NOT rational state this morning, I did text my former manager some of this confusion, so now I need to have another chat with the director tomorrow.
Just goes to show how much a bad mgmt style can mess you up, and you may not even realize it.
I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn't care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn't. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone's reaction to my leaving, that they really didn't get it, and I couldn't process that contradiction (still can't really).
I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn't care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn't. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone's reaction to my leaving, that they really didn't get it, and I couldn't process that contradiction (still can't really).
I am so sorry. Please realize that this is not on you, this is completely on them. I really doubt that it was at all personal; they were just checking in at a superficial level, like people do at work; they did *something*, so they ticked that box, and then went on to the next thing, and so when they didn't hear anything else, they assumed everything was fine.
The thing for you to realize is that this is also crappy management. The fault here is not just with your immediate boss -- it is with every single other manager there who didn't bother to provide that boss with sufficient training or oversight, who focused on short-term band-aids instead of long-term solutions, and who managed passively and reactively (i.e., only in response to complaints) instead of proactively making sure the teams were properly staffed and supervised.
I am sure many of these same people like you very much as a person and respect you professionally. They are just in a bad management structure and have never been trained on how to manage properly. That is a problem that comes from the top, and so it is nothing that you could ever fix even if you stayed.
It sounds like you could use more than a week between jobs. You might want to explore those options.
I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn't care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn't. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone's reaction to my leaving, that they really didn't get it, and I couldn't process that contradiction (still can't really).
I am so sorry. Please realize that this is not on you, this is completely on them. I really doubt that it was at all personal; they were just checking in at a superficial level, like people do at work; they did *something*, so they ticked that box, and then went on to the next thing, and so when they didn't hear anything else, they assumed everything was fine.
The thing for you to realize is that this is also crappy management. The fault here is not just with your immediate boss -- it is with every single other manager there who didn't bother to provide that boss with sufficient training or oversight, who focused on short-term band-aids instead of long-term solutions, and who managed passively and reactively (i.e., only in response to complaints) instead of proactively making sure the teams were properly staffed and supervised.
I am sure many of these same people like you very much as a person and respect you professionally. They are just in a bad management structure and have never been trained on how to manage properly. That is a problem that comes from the top, and so it is nothing that you could ever fix even if you stayed.
I know. However, I clearly hit a breaking point. I'm better today, back at work. I'm still emotionally fragile though, and I know it. I'm trying to be very careful to manage my stress load, make sure I eat and sleep enough, etc. One day at a time. This is very unlike me, I've never done anything like this before.
Edit: to be clear, I'm still leaving this job for the new one. I clearly need a change.
Yes, thanks KT.Imagine the entire Tenth Anniversary All-Star Cast of Les Miserables belting out "One Day More". You'll get through this and go on to better things and a happier life soon, Sibley, very, very soon.
I made it through the day without incident. A few coworkers are aware that I'm somewhat fragile (it was obvious to them, they know me well enough), and quietly redirected conversations a few times. Which I am very grateful for.
Love the song (one of my favourite memories was seeing it performed while travelling overseas), but didn't most of the people singing meet a tragic end? I also travelled the sewer system in Paris, an actual tourist destination, that Jean Valjean escaped into. Again I hope Sibley fares better ;)Yes, thanks KT.Imagine the entire Tenth Anniversary All-Star Cast of Les Miserables belting out "One Day More". You'll get through this and go on to better things and a happier life soon, Sibley, very, very soon.
I made it through the day without incident. A few coworkers are aware that I'm somewhat fragile (it was obvious to them, they know me well enough), and quietly redirected conversations a few times. Which I am very grateful for.
Love the song (one of my favourite memories was seeing it performed while travelling overseas), but didn't most of the people singing meet a tragic end? I also travelled the sewer system in Paris, an actual tourist destination, that Jean Valjean escaped into. Again I hope Sibley fares better ;)Yes, thanks KT.Imagine the entire Tenth Anniversary All-Star Cast of Les Miserables belting out "One Day More". You'll get through this and go on to better things and a happier life soon, Sibley, very, very soon.
I made it through the day without incident. A few coworkers are aware that I'm somewhat fragile (it was obvious to them, they know me well enough), and quietly redirected conversations a few times. Which I am very grateful for.
(hoping Sibley sees the humour, laughter is the best medicine)
Love the song (one of my favourite memories was seeing it performed while travelling overseas), but didn't most of the people singing meet a tragic end? I also travelled the sewer system in Paris, an actual tourist destination, that Jean Valjean escaped into. Again I hope Sibley fares better ;)Yes, thanks KT.Imagine the entire Tenth Anniversary All-Star Cast of Les Miserables belting out "One Day More". You'll get through this and go on to better things and a happier life soon, Sibley, very, very soon.
I made it through the day without incident. A few coworkers are aware that I'm somewhat fragile (it was obvious to them, they know me well enough), and quietly redirected conversations a few times. Which I am very grateful for.
(hoping Sibley sees the humour, laughter is the best medicine)
I'm working on it! Am hanging in there. Thanks all - it helps. (and found out the person taking over some of my projects is struggling with the same things I am. this team has issues)
Also, the HR person tried to institute some seminars on improving the work environment, but none of the managers in my department attended. It was only individual contributors that attended. It was a voluntary seminar. I brought this up to the HR person during the second talk, to point out that my management really had no interest in changing. Others had noticed too that no managers went.
...
My company has changed culturally over the years to the point where the only thing that matters is the bottom line. I understand we need to make money, but there used to be a caring attitude towards employees that paid them back in spades.
The changes have happened gradually over several years, but have suddenly added up to become a huge deal for me.
...
A line from way back in this thread came back to me. I may need A job, but I don't need THIS job.No need to apologise: stories like yours are the reason this thread exists. Congratulations on the FU money and the imminent move to part time/demotion/another job.
I do love my primary role, so I've come up with a plan of action, and I've put in application to go part time. The company has 3 months to give me an answer, but I think I have a good chance. If they say no, I will ask to be demoted to a level where there is no expectation of accepting extra tasks. If they reject that, I'll quit.
So a HUGE thank you to everyone who has posted here. Some good decisions early in my working life, living within my means, and a nudge (facepunch) from here has made me realise I actually have FU money, and I've had the nerve to use it.
Sorry for the long post!!
A line from way back in this thread came back to me. I may need A job, but I don't need THIS job.No need to apologise: stories like yours are the reason this thread exists. Congratulations on the FU money and the imminent move to part time/demotion/another job.
I do love my primary role, so I've come up with a plan of action, and I've put in application to go part time. The company has 3 months to give me an answer, but I think I have a good chance. If they say no, I will ask to be demoted to a level where there is no expectation of accepting extra tasks. If they reject that, I'll quit.
So a HUGE thank you to everyone who has posted here. Some good decisions early in my working life, living within my means, and a nudge (facepunch) from here has made me realise I actually have FU money, and I've had the nerve to use it.
Sorry for the long post!!
While you are waiting for a decision on the part time, you have nothing to lose by pushing back on some of those extra tasks. Simply saying to someone who asks you to do something extra "I don't have time at the moment, if you want you can ask me again after [Christmas/New Year/Easter] might help in the meantime.
...
My company has changed culturally over the years to the point where the only thing that matters is the bottom line. I understand we need to make money, but there used to be a caring attitude towards employees that paid them back in spades.
The changes have happened gradually over several years, but have suddenly added up to become a huge deal for me.
...
Many parallels with my employer ...
...
My company has changed culturally over the years to the point where the only thing that matters is the bottom line. I understand we need to make money, but there used to be a caring attitude towards employees that paid them back in spades.
The changes have happened gradually over several years, but have suddenly added up to become a huge deal for me.
...
Many parallels with my employer ...
Me too, now my EX-employer!
I don't know if I'm actually FIRE, but I'm certainly going to take an extended vacation for a year, or two, or ten.
And I thank my lucky stars for my FU money. Never again will I stay in a toxic situation that slowly destroys my health and sanity. And I am so grateful that I have the breathing room to put my stressed-out brain back together, and to recover from one of my more unpleasant and unsettling workplace experiences.
Awesome job Mrs. Hen! That must have felt amazing!
Bam! Love it.Awesome job Mrs. Hen! That must have felt amazing!
Felt Gooooooood!!
(I average 42). Strange, but we don't get a dime for anything past 40.
....
Others can only take advantage of you if you first give them your permission. Its been a few years since I've done that.
Not really caring if you lose your job right then and there is a fantastic feeling.
...
Others can only take advantage of you if you first give them your permission. Its been a few years since I've done that.
Not really caring if you lose your job right then and there is a fantastic feeling.
...
Others can only take advantage of you if you first give them your permission. Its been a few years since I've done that.
Amen.
I've worked jobs that had long-term mandatory OT, and all I noticed was a lot of burnt-out people making a lot of mistakes, and often ultimately leaving the company and taking their knowledge and skills with them. Plus it costs $$ to recruit for, hire, and train replacements. Very cost-ineffective solution.
My pushing back on mandatory OT has always surprised people. I think a lot of managers aren't accustomed to employees who actually value themselves and make it a priority to take care of themselves, or who set clear boundaries. Which is strange because it's those who practice self-care who can continue to contribute consistent value indefinitely. I have left jobs because of boundaries I've set being disrespected, and I'm always surprised at how surprised management is when I do that. Maybe it, like FU money, is rare.
I guess even managers lose sight of long-term goals because of pressure for short-term returns. Not unlike some inexperienced investors, I suppose.
Not as epic as some, but here's a story from when I quit my old job to work on my own business:
I had been managing around a dozen test prep tutors, and had a good relationship with my boss. He was a great boss, really he was, the best I ever had. So I gave him plenty of notice when I decided I wanted to quit - about six months, so that we could transfer my responsibilities to someone else over time. I had been working on a big curriculum project as well as handling all of the high-end clients who wanted "the best tutor you have." I came with a $250/hr price tag, but the clients we had didn't mind paying it.
I'd been working on salary and managing all of the other tutors as well as handling my own students. As the months went by, I finished up the big project. I transitioned the management to the new manager. And then I had two months left and only a handful of students to take care of. My boss came to me and said that since I didn't have the same responsibilities, he wanted to change my pay to hourly, $75/hr. This was a huge pay cut since I only had a few students left, and was only working around ten hours a week.
So I said no.
He hadn't expected this response. Every other tutor was paid $25/hr or so, so he expected me to be thrilled. But I had been expecting my old manager's salary until my quit date, which was still two months away. He didn't want to pay it, he said, because I was no longer doing management stuff. Fair enough.
But still no.
I told him if I had given him a normal two week's notice, he would have been completely screwed, and I felt it was unfair to essentially fire me two months early for getting the transition completed ahead of schedule. Of course, he could fire me, but that would mean a bunch of REALLY angry parents whose students would be losing their "premium" tutor right before the SAT was scheduled. Did he want to do that?
He hemmed and hawed and eventually paid me my manager's salary for two months while I worked happily as a normal tutor with a very light load. And then I quit for good.
My new business did so well that I saved enough to retire in only three years of work. And boom, here we are, and I'm enjoying the FIREd life in my thirties while raising my baby. It wasn't quite an F U, since he was a good guy, but it was epic enough for me :)
Not as epic as some, but here's a story from when I quit my old job to work on my own business:
I had been managing around a dozen test prep tutors, and had a good relationship with my boss. He was a great boss, really he was, the best I ever had. So I gave him plenty of notice when I decided I wanted to quit - about six months, so that we could transfer my responsibilities to someone else over time. I had been working on a big curriculum project as well as handling all of the high-end clients who wanted "the best tutor you have." I came with a $250/hr price tag, but the clients we had didn't mind paying it.
I'd been working on salary and managing all of the other tutors as well as handling my own students. As the months went by, I finished up the big project. I transitioned the management to the new manager. And then I had two months left and only a handful of students to take care of. My boss came to me and said that since I didn't have the same responsibilities, he wanted to change my pay to hourly, $75/hr. This was a huge pay cut since I only had a few students left, and was only working around ten hours a week.
So I said no.
He hadn't expected this response. Every other tutor was paid $25/hr or so, so he expected me to be thrilled. But I had been expecting my old manager's salary until my quit date, which was still two months away. He didn't want to pay it, he said, because I was no longer doing management stuff. Fair enough.
But still no.
I told him if I had given him a normal two week's notice, he would have been completely screwed, and I felt it was unfair to essentially fire me two months early for getting the transition completed ahead of schedule. Of course, he could fire me, but that would mean a bunch of REALLY angry parents whose students would be losing their "premium" tutor right before the SAT was scheduled. Did he want to do that?
He hemmed and hawed and eventually paid me my manager's salary for two months while I worked happily as a normal tutor with a very light load. And then I quit for good.
My new business did so well that I saved enough to retire in only three years of work. And boom, here we are, and I'm enjoying the FIREd life in my thirties while raising my baby. It wasn't quite an F U, since he was a good guy, but it was epic enough for me :)
Hmm... this seems similar to an employer cutting an employee's pay by 20% and telling the employee they better take it because they won't be able to pay rent and groceries next month with no job.
Friends,
(TLDR; take this job and shove it)
My 20+ year career in enterprise IT is coming to an end in 2018 and thanks to FU money, I am not panicking or frantically searching for another job. In fact, on a daily basis I feel like I might just explode from joy.
I work on a small team of highly experienced IT system engineers for a major retailer.
This retailer leases and operates several data centers across the country and owns tens of millions of dollars worth of data center IT equipment such as servers, network switches, firewalls, storage arrays, etc.
Earlier in 2017, the CIO and board of directors kicked off an ambitious project to close all these data centers and move their entire IT infrastructure to a cloud infrastructure. The scope of the project is enormous. Hundreds of applications and one of the top 10 e-commerce sites in the world will need completely migrated out of data centers and into the cloud.
In September of 2017, the company decided to outsource any job related to data center IT to Tata Consulting Services, aka TCS. Over 70 people were laid off. Storage engineers, UNIX engineers, networking engineers, data center engineers, anyone with a job supporting or engineering data center solutions was laid off in favor of TCS taking over the work. I was one of these layoffs.
TCS arranged with the retailer to hire a small number of those laid off to come work for TCS and continue doing their old job, but as a TCS contractor, not as an employee of the retailer. Of course this move to TCS would get you a huge pay cut, an enormous cost increase in benefits, and officially zero paid time off.
My name was identified as a key engineer, and TCS gave me the "opportunity" to apply for my old job. I was given about a month to decide if I wanted to join TCS. The alternative was to train my TCS replacements and be out of a job on 2/1/18.
It took me about an hour to decide to that this was my out.
I was given a deadline to apply to TCS. I would have had to interview for my old job. The day of the deadline, I received a phone call from a TCS recruiter. The recruiter said he was calling to find out why he hadn't seen my resume submitted yet. My reply:
"I didn't submit my resume to TCS."
**** crickets chirp chirp chirp *****
"Uh....... may I ask why not?"
"I don't want to work for TCS."
******** 30 second pause......... "OK then well wishes to you..." click
It's hard to describe how I felt during that conversation. I knew I was willingly making a choice to abandon my career. The only thing I've ever done in my adult life to make a living was now effectively over, and I did have the opportunity to keep going, but I chose not to. I refused to work harder for less, and it's all thanks to having FU money.
So here I am employed until 2/1/18. I'm mostly done training my replacements, and they sure will have their work cut out for them. I'm abandoning several high profile projects that require attention and expertise. Good luck to them. As my last day approaches, I will be offering my services for after 2/1/18 at a very reasonable rate of $200/hr with a 2 hour minimum.
A few of my co-workers did interview with and accept TCS positions. Other co-workers have found new IT jobs elsewhere. When they ask me what I'm doing, I tell them that I am done with IT and will be taking at least a year off. The reactions are comically mixed. Some people can't believe it and think I'm making a huge, costly mistake. Others are very supportive with a "good for you" attitude.
My plan now after 2/1/18 is to enjoy a reasonably generous severance, then file for unemployment. When that runs out, I'll start tapping into my backdoor ROTH for living expenses. I expect to look for a part time job within walking distance after unemployment runs out. There is a very nice liquor store within walking distance that is constantly hiring for clerks and stocking staff. I will absolutely have no problem whatsoever working there for beer money.
Cheers!
I manage a crew of teenagers on our farm all summer. Usually we have hard working kids who enjoy that our job would totally be cool with you missing time for vacations, dentist appointments, camps, etc. Last summer one kid had a mom who let him do a little too much of whatever he wanted. He would slack at work, and I would point out that working and money is better than working and no money, and what would your parents say? (because my parents would have kicked my butt for this type of thing, and grounded me, and shamed me, and taught me why it's good to have a work ethic by giving me a dozen chores every day for the rest of the summer....context) He was like "my mom would be mad, but she'd get over it, and I'd get to sleep in". Um, wow. So your story reminded me of the teenager without strong enough parenting at home who was about to walk off the job because it was hot, and I was making him actually work while at work. Also, he had to stay until 5 even though that would make him late to his random get together volleyball game. Some teenagers have so much power.
That story reminds me of a story of my ex. When he was going to community college he worked as a prep cook at a very busy restaurant. He busted his butt, but noticed because he was cheerful and joking while he did his work, management felt like he wasn't working as hard as the main cook (who scowled and bitched all the time) and rode him. But the people who worked in the kitchen knew who was doing the work because they saw it (sous chef, diswashers, busers). I can't remember the exact reason why this happened, but he was given an ultimatum or that he would be fired. He thought for a few seconds and instead took off his apron and gave it to the manager and said, no I quit. He rides his bike home, wondering how he is going to tell his parents that he no longer has a job. The doorbell rings, and 3 other people from the kitchen are at the door, saying what he did was awesome, and that they all quit too! It was during the dinner rush.Yep!
I guess the morale of the story, is if you are going to be an *sshole manager, you need to accept the consequences when you push people too far.
Well, MMM community, yesterday was my last day, which makes today my first day officially off! YES! It feels great! I woke up happy for the first time in a months. My spouse was happy because I am already moving back to the old me and the kids are happy knowing that their parent is going to have more time for them.
A toxic, really super shitty coworker (and her just as awful family) was enough to get me to use FU money and walk away from a job that I used to love and that I'm genuinely good at. It was affecting my stress levels and mood while at work and those feelings had even moved outside of normal work hours. And yet, I stayed. However, once my kids were being picked on at school by her kid and it wasn't resolving itself within a reasonable amount of time, that was the end of that! I put my family's health and well-being first!
Interestingly, there were so many complaints from clientele about her (and really some laughable insane stories of her behavior) and yet nothing appeared to be done about it. I thought for sure the people in charge would see the toxicity and let her go, but so far she's only had meetings and been talked to. I wondered why in the hell am I bothering with this insanity? Why am I forcing myself to have to interact with someone so damn unhealthy and genuinely cruel to others? And once that clicked in, I gave notice. People close to me know that my resignation is a form of meaningful protest. I don't have to stand idly by and be a part of a community that allows her to hurt others and so starting today, I DIDN'T.
OT hours... I repeatedly get the spiel that we can't get more resources and must not be overloaded if we are only working 45 - 50 hours (I average 42). Strange, but we don't get a dime for anything past 40.
I always zone out when I hear it. I'm pretty blunt in my response to it though. 'Well, I guess we probably won't be getting a lot of things done then...' or 'Looks like we'll get further behind...'
Not really caring if you lose your job right then and there is a fantastic feeling.
I don't doubt I've frustrated the heck out of my managers. But I'm still here....42 hours a week.
Others can only take advantage of you if you first give them your permission. Its been a few years since I've done that.
I'm not exactly sure if this fits here, but his stash would have been used if necessary (he gave me permission to add this, because he said it's public knowledge)
My son worked in the IT department of a hospital, part of a company that owns a lot of hospitals and medical stuff around here and keeps buying more. He knows his networking stuff, and I know he's an excellent worker, so is valuable, especially with all the buildings they're buying that need to be 'networked.'
He got a new boss and he came to the realization that he did not care to work for him. A couple of the vendors that came in were interested in hiring son, but he 'heard' that they were told if they take him, the company would no longer be needing them. So he stayed.
A few years ago (maybe 6-7-8?) that company bought an independent hospital and they were working on bringing it up to their level of computer/networking/ some other computer word.
The beginning of 2017 the FTA said nope, it will give them too much power to raise prices, and the Supreme Court agreed, the process was started to make that lone hospital independent again. It was supposedly the first hospital that they had 'broken up.'
The files they had still had old files, so my son was still in the system. There were a lot of people over there that had left too, gave him glowing reports, so he now works for the newly independent hospital, as their network guy.
We've taught our kids, you play by the rules, but if there's a problem, find ways to work within them to get what you need.
I know people who have worked at that hospital for 15-20-25 years and love their jobs.
I was thinking the same thing as EricL - those two situations sound vastly different! I likely would have done the same thing had I done the responsible thing and blocked my time a month in advance!
And after the third time, my boss was really pissed off, because he had to priorize this fright before others and make a lot of calls. And I had to sleep in my truck again. So I backed my truck up to the front gate , and activated my tipper and unloaded it all at there front gate.
I wish I could see there faces when they arrived at there work the next morning. My boss did not do business with them afterwards and he supported what I did:P.
And after the third time, my boss was really pissed off, because he had to priorize this fright before others and make a lot of calls. And I had to sleep in my truck again. So I backed my truck up to the front gate , and activated my tipper and unloaded it all at there front gate.
I wish I could see there faces when they arrived at there work the next morning. My boss did not do business with them afterwards and he supported what I did:P.
This is one of the best stories in this thread. I really hate customers that pretend their order is very urgent, so we make all kinds of special arrangements, only to find out it wasn't urgent after all.
To expect someone to sleep in their truck 3(!) times, is just so rude, they deserve this kind of delivery. Luckily your boss felt the same.
Based on my experience with Indian companies, you should be able to buy lots of beer with your consulting fees.
Tata for now.
My DH was offered a job once and before he accepted, he negotiated leave without pay for a dream vacation we had already scheduled and booked for a couple of months after his start date. This trip took a lot of planning time and also involved some nonrefundable costs.
As the time got closer, his new boss said there was no way he would be able to go on the trip. DH remained calm, replied something noncommittal, and talked to me about it that night. We decided that he was going to tell his boss the next day, you gave your word before I started and there is no negotiation here. I'm taking this trip. (We had a 6 month emergency fund in addition to our trip fund, so decided we didn't care if DH got fired.)
DH delivered the line, boss was shocked, we took the trip, and nobody got fired or quit.
My DH was offered a job once and before he accepted, he negotiated leave without pay for a dream vacation we had already scheduled and booked for a couple of months after his start date. This trip took a lot of planning time and also involved some nonrefundable costs.Wow, that is fantastic. My girlfriend did something similar a few years ago when she needed to get time off for an event she needed to go to for her side gig, and the boss said the policy was no time off for that month (November in what was basically retail, so I get it). After they said no, she basically said fine, the day before that will be my last day. And that's what led to her side gig becoming her only gig (and it's since grown nicely).
As the time got closer, his new boss said there was no way he would be able to go on the trip. DH remained calm, replied something noncommittal, and talked to me about it that night. We decided that he was going to tell his boss the next day, you gave your word before I started and there is no negotiation here. I'm taking this trip. (We had a 6 month emergency fund in addition to our trip fund, so decided we didn't care if DH got fired.)
DH delivered the line, boss was shocked, we took the trip, and nobody got fired or quit.
My DH was offered a job once and before he accepted, he negotiated leave without pay for a dream vacation we had already scheduled and booked for a couple of months after his start date. This trip took a lot of planning time and also involved some nonrefundable costs.
As the time got closer, his new boss said there was no way he would be able to go on the trip. DH remained calm, replied something noncommittal, and talked to me about it that night. We decided that he was going to tell his boss the next day, you gave your word before I started and there is no negotiation here. I'm taking this trip. (We had a 6 month emergency fund in addition to our trip fund, so decided we didn't care if DH got fired.)
DH delivered the line, boss was shocked, we took the trip, and nobody got fired or quit.
My DH was offered a job once and before he accepted, he negotiated leave without pay for a dream vacation we had already scheduled and booked for a couple of months after his start date. This trip took a lot of planning time and also involved some nonrefundable costs.
As the time got closer, his new boss said there was no way he would be able to go on the trip. DH remained calm, replied something noncommittal, and talked to me about it that night. We decided that he was going to tell his boss the next day, you gave your word before I started and there is no negotiation here. I'm taking this trip. (We had a 6 month emergency fund in addition to our trip fund, so decided we didn't care if DH got fired.)
DH delivered the line, boss was shocked, we took the trip, and nobody got fired or quit.
I'm curious if the manager turned out to be psycho or just oblivious?
In my experience, most "emergencies" at work are purely in the mind of some manager. I can't count the number of times I've heard "This has to be done today" and then it wasn't actally needed until weeks later.My DH was offered a job once and before he accepted, he negotiated leave without pay for a dream vacation we had already scheduled and booked for a couple of months after his start date. This trip took a lot of planning time and also involved some nonrefundable costs.
As the time got closer, his new boss said there was no way he would be able to go on the trip. DH remained calm, replied something noncommittal, and talked to me about it that night. We decided that he was going to tell his boss the next day, you gave your word before I started and there is no negotiation here. I'm taking this trip. (We had a 6 month emergency fund in addition to our trip fund, so decided we didn't care if DH got fired.)
DH delivered the line, boss was shocked, we took the trip, and nobody got fired or quit.
I'm curious if the manager turned out to be psycho or just oblivious?
He was a bit of a psycho, but also a good guy who was new to managing and just hadn't quite figured out boundaries yet. He was actually pretty fun (see also psycho, lol) and we ended up becoming friends with him.
He was a bit of a psycho, but also a good guy who was new to managing and just hadn't quite figured out boundaries yet. He was actually pretty fun (see also psycho, lol) and we ended up becoming friends with him.
I had a truck delivery to France, they called that it was very very extremely urgent, I should not stop because the entire factory was waiting for it and they needed it today! I said I expect to be there at 18:00, We will be waiting for you after closing hours 17:00 because we really need it before tomorrow
So I drive immidiatly to them, and when I arrived at the gate, it was closed. I called the office, and this france lady said every one was at home and I could unload it the next day. Bud you told us it was very urgent I asked, and I stayed polite. You can unload it tomorrow at 08:30 when the company is open.
I had to sleep in my truck at the gate from 18:00 to next day 08:30.
They next morning they unloaded it and there was no urgentsy.
And a couple weeks later, they also called they needed it very urgent. Really urgent this time it's real! We really need it today!, it can't wait until tomorrow. We will defitnly wait for you until you arive after closing hours. Other frights get reschudeled that is a lot of work/phone calls and other drivers have to do more loads and drive extra.
So I drive to them with a lot of haste. And when I arrive it's closed again, and the same lady tells me I can sleep here and unload tomorrow at 08:30.
This happened a third time.
And after the third time, my boss was really pissed off, because he had to priorize this fright before others and make a lot of calls. And I had to sleep in my truck again. So I backed my truck up to the front gate , and activated my tipper and unloaded it all at there front gate.
I wish I could see there faces when they arrived at there work the next morning. My boss did not do business with them afterwards and he supported what I did:P.
In my experience, most "emergencies" at work are purely in the mind of some manager. I can't count the number of times I've heard "This has to be done today" and then it wasn't actally needed until weeks later.My DH was offered a job once and before he accepted, he negotiated leave without pay for a dream vacation we had already scheduled and booked for a couple of months after his start date. This trip took a lot of planning time and also involved some nonrefundable costs.
As the time got closer, his new boss said there was no way he would be able to go on the trip. DH remained calm, replied something noncommittal, and talked to me about it that night. We decided that he was going to tell his boss the next day, you gave your word before I started and there is no negotiation here. I'm taking this trip. (We had a 6 month emergency fund in addition to our trip fund, so decided we didn't care if DH got fired.)
DH delivered the line, boss was shocked, we took the trip, and nobody got fired or quit.
I'm curious if the manager turned out to be psycho or just oblivious?
He was a bit of a psycho, but also a good guy who was new to managing and just hadn't quite figured out boundaries yet. He was actually pretty fun (see also psycho, lol) and we ended up becoming friends with him.
Wow. I just finished (re)reading the entire thread, and there are some amazing, inspirational stories here.
It's really helped me come to terms with my own situation, and make a big decision.
I've been working in my field for nearly 30 years, and 21 years with my current employer. I am good at what I do, work with some great people, and am respected. I have a good pay and benefits package. So far, so good.
My company has changed culturally over the years to the point where the only thing that matters is the bottom line. I understand we need to make money, but there used to be a caring attitude towards employees that paid them back in spades.
The changes have happened gradually over several years, but have suddenly added up to become a huge deal for me.
I am currently working for my 7th line manager in 6 years. In the last 2 years, I have dealt with my Mother's breast cancer (she's fine now), my Father's rapid decline and death, my Grandmother's gradual decline and death, my own diagnosis with adult onset diabetes, and planned my wedding (the good bit!).
Funnily enough, I ended up in a very fragile mental state , and I was prescribed medication for stress and depression. These have been slowly reducing over the summer, with a view to coming off them altogether very soon.
Being respected in my role is wonderful, but it has meant I've become the "go-to girl" for everything. I took on as much as I could over and above my primary role, but I'm aware most of my colleagues are only doing the primary role. I am not paid any extra for doing the extra work. I realised I was not coping, went to my manager (promoted into the role 3 months ago), explained my concerns about my health, and asked for my workload to be temporarily reduced for a couple of months while a particular large project was delivered. Once that was done, I was very happy to take on the extra stuff again.
My manager said no. No discussion. My colleagues would be upset, and she wouldn't like that. So no.
Cue lots of tears (in private!), and a text to my husband asking him if we could afford for me to quit. He said we could afford for me to do whatever I needed to do.
My doctor has put my medications back up to the maximum dose. I did not take any time off sick.
I did, however, start looking at our savings in a different way. We crunched some numbers and realised we were in a pretty good place. Not FI, but well on our way. A line from way back in this thread came back to me. I may need A job, but I don't need THIS job.
I do love my primary role, so I've come up with a plan of action, and I've put in application to go part time. The company has 3 months to give me an answer, but I think I have a good chance. If they say no, I will ask to be demoted to a level where there is no expectation of accepting extra tasks. If they reject that, I'll quit.
So a HUGE thank you to everyone who has posted here. Some good decisions early in my working life, living within my means, and a nudge (facepunch) from here has made me realise I actually have FU money, and I've had the nerve to use it.
Sorry for the long post!!
That's the biggest downside for me of working at a small company. Only one person can take a vacation at the time and in those type of companies there's often a strong hierarchy. Which means if you're the new person (and you can be the new person for 10 years) you're basically screwed. I'm lucky that my coworkers don't care about christmas, so I get to take the week between christmas and NYE off, but I didn't have a summer holiday. Coworkers have kids, so they want to spend that time with their kids (understandably) and I'm stuck in the office working overtime for the entire summer.Imma, the fall is a lovely time to travel. Could you plan something for then so you have something to look forward to in the dog days of summer? I used to go to DC a lot. The best time was in early September. Lovely weather, no lines, and shoulder season rates. The kids were back in school and hadn't had time to plan theirrampagesfield trips yet. It was heavenly.
One of the great joys of FIREing is that we have discovered that the worker bees have a very fixed window to enjoy a whole lot of opportunities when it comes to recreation and tourism, and since you are post-unemployed, you get to enjoy the best places during the times when the masses have to stay chained to their desks. We relocated to the heart of the Amish country in PA, earlier this year. We had been visiting the area for two decades, and had a huge concern about moving to a place that sees eight million tourists a year. We had spend many Saturdays in years past, crawling in tourist traffic, and didn't want to turn that into a lifestyle. After a few months of being here, and unwinding a bit, we finally figured out that the ONLY time our neighborhood sucks is from about 10AM to 6PM on Saturdays, from mid-spring to Christmas. That is less than 10% of the time, and we now have a very good handle of every farm road, and back alley in the land, and how to use them to get around the lines of out of state cars that stack up on those days. We just smile when people from out of town say, "you live in a beautiful place, but oh, God, that traffic".
We have also used this concept as we spent a few years roaming around the states in our motorhome, and rarely did anything the would potentially involve crowds on a weekend, or peak times. We made darn sure to find quiet places to hide on the big summer holidays. The wonderful world of RVing can really turn to shit on holidays like the 4th of July, when the campgrounds are 110% full. Occasionally full of families with a litter of screaming little brats and a $300 pop-up camper that blew two tires on the way there. Due to awesome parenting and social skills, they then decide that the way to address the sugared up, screaming little spawn, at 11pm, is to make the bonfire bigger, kick up the drinking a notch, and turn up the sorry-assed country music they and half the county are "enjoying". The amazing part is that, by the last week of August, chucklenuts like this are long gone, and great places are very lightly attended. If you really want your experience to be wonderful and uncrowded, push the limits and get there a week or two before the places are about to roll up the sidewalks for the winter. Places like the Black Hills, SD, or the coast of Maine, absolutely kick ass in the second half of September, and 80% or more of the crowds are gone. Yellowstone is another great example. They have been setting attendance records every year, and by noon on a typical mid-summer day, the place looks like a street in Manhattan. Get there the week after labor day, and it's like another planet. Without kids to accommodate, being able to take time off in fall and spring is a gift.
Yes. This is the reason why I only take vacations in the fall. Beautiful weather and no crowds!Homeschooling your kids has similar advantages. Tour DC in mid October? No problem. Disney world in January, with almost no lines? Yup!
Yes. This is the reason why I only take vacations in the fall. Beautiful weather and no crowds!Homeschooling your kids has similar advantages. Tour DC in mid October? No problem. Disney world in January, with almost no lines? Yup!
(DW is looking at photos of the parks today. Some rides had a wait time of over five hours. The line of cars waiting to park at Magic Kingdom stretched all the way to Hollywood Studios. )
*December 1999, things may have changed since then :)Yeah, unfortunately Disney caught on to that, and clamped down on it--you could only get fast passes every X minutes. And then a couple years ago at Disneyworld, they revamped the whole system so you can only have 3 fast passes total at the beginning of the day, and you can't get any more until you use all three, and then you can only have one at a time. For people like you and me that understand the system, it was a significant downgrade :(
And after the third time, my boss was really pissed off, because he had to priorize this fright before others and make a lot of calls. And I had to sleep in my truck again. So I backed my truck up to the front gate , and activated my tipper and unloaded it all at there front gate.
I wish I could see there faces when they arrived at there work the next morning. My boss did not do business with them afterwards and he supported what I did:P.
And after the third time, my boss was really pissed off, because he had to priorize this fright before others and make a lot of calls. And I had to sleep in my truck again. So I backed my truck up to the front gate , and activated my tipper and unloaded it all at there front gate.
Jesus, your manager said no to you reducing your workload because it would upset your coworkers, while you were CRYING to her about your excessive workload?! What about YOU being upset? Sincere congrats on getting your part time request approved, but that manager deserves the biggest 'fuck. you.' possible. If I were that manager's manager they would be fired.I kept it together enough to only cry in private, but yes, that's about the size of it.
Congrats! So now its time to practice saying NO to requests and prevent the part time job becoming full time with half pay.The part time shifts start in July, but they've already come to me with another project. I've said no, and pointed out I wouldn't be there so much. This appeared to take them by surprise.
I've worked PT a couple of different phases in life, and here is what I found:Jesus, your manager said no to you reducing your workload because it would upset your coworkers, while you were CRYING to her about your excessive workload?! What about YOU being upset? Sincere congrats on getting your part time request approved, but that manager deserves the biggest 'fuck. you.' possible. If I were that manager's manager they would be fired.I kept it together enough to only cry in private, but yes, that's about the size of it.Congrats! So now its time to practice saying NO to requests and prevent the part time job becoming full time with half pay.The part time shifts start in July, but they've already come to me with another project. I've said no, and pointed out I wouldn't be there so much. This appeared to take them by surprise.
I'm not entirely sure this battle is over, but for the moment I feel as though the weight of the world has been lifted.
Happy new year everyone.
This isn't very epic or epic FU money but it did take a lot of courage to go through with it. We have some savings but not FU savings and we really need to maintain insurance coverage right now.
My company was purchased this past summer and it seemed like it would be a really great thing. I loved the values that the new company publishes, my very worthless boss was quickly removed from his position, they promised to put a lot of money into this place to upgrade things, all great stuff. While although the published values are great they are not really at the top of the priority list and we were given a new facility manager that does not "practice what he preaches" when it comes to these values, he also appears to think women should be at home not at work (but I don't have concrete examples of this). They replaced my worthless boss with somebody that has zero experience in my field, without even opening interviews for the role (I was never considered), several upgrades were made but not in the areas that they were actually needed. And best of all we all have a lot morepaperworkbusy work that they like to get all pissed off about if you don't do it but they don't want to tell you what they expect from you beforehand. We were all given new titles (mine was originally an entry level title that I refused to except), new (more expensive) health insurance, no raises, and it appears that they will not be giving out bonuses. On top of all of these changes we found out we were pregnant (had been trying for about 6 months) about 2 weeks after the new company took over. In general everyone recommends you do not try to find a new job while you are pregnant because benefits, FMLA, and specifically short-term disability/maternity leave. So when I first started getting kicked around I decided that I would just grin a bare it until after the baby came then look for something new.
It kept getting worse and around Nov I decided that I am good at what I do and maybe I can find another job that will accept my pregnancy. First I went to my old job to see if they had anything open, they were going through a re-organization and couldn't offer me a position but if I was willing to wait until the re-organization was over they would love to have me back. Then I saw a posting that looked like something I would be really interested in but it had been open for forever and was technically out of my reach. I applied but didn't hear anything very quickly so I reached out to my old job again to see if they knew anybody at this new place, what kind of environment it was and if they would put my name in the hiring managers ear. I got a call back from my old job saying they had just talked to the hiring manager and was forwarding my resume to him. Fast forward about a month and I got an offer that was very flexible around my pregnancy and was a 30+% raise from what I am currently making.
I start Monday, insurance will kick in before baby is due, maternity leave is not paid but I will make so much more through 2018 that it doesn't matter. Savings allowed me to say FU now and not worry about paying for COBRA and taking unpaid leave vs waiting until baby got here, taking maternity leave, coming back to this toxic place before turning in 2 week notice, and then going to the new job. Again, not very epic but I am really excited to be leaving this environment and to get a huge (to me) raise to do it.
This isn't very epic or epic FU money but it did take a lot of courage to go through with it. We have some savings but not FU savings and we really need to maintain insurance coverage right now.
I don't know if this qualifies for epic but it happened none the less. The DW is a doc that decided to come back to where we grew up to practice medicine. We were pregnant with our first child when she took her job. We negotiated maternity leave and all started well. As time went on she got busier and busier. We asked that they hire another doc but that was not an option. We continued to work and got pregnant with #2. Her partner that owned the practice offered her a contract making significantly less and deleted the maternity portion of the contract. We nicely declined and he greeted her with a copy box for her belongings and escorted her off the property. Nice guy right? We took a job with the hospital because we wanted to be close to grandparents and loved where we lived. Her practice literally exploded over night. Soon she was 70-80 hours a week and miserable. We once again begged for more partners, but the hospital was un able to find anyone... for 18 months. Finally we drew a line in the dirt and gave them a deadline to make changes. They drug their feet and got very angry when she resigned. AMAZINGLY four weeks later they found another doc.
Had it not been for MMM we would never have made the changes to allow the switch. After the first doc escorted my wife from the property, we started to pay off debt and save $$$ like a fiend. We have gotten 3 "offers" to come back and we still laugh hysterically. We took a 35% cut in pay, but the DW works 3 days a week and quality of life has gone up tremendously. We can't save 60% of the pay anymore, but I can still keep 30% if we stick to the plans. Having a wife and mother back in our home is priceless!
I don't know if this qualifies for epic but it happened none the less. The DW is a doc that decided to come back to where we grew up to practice medicine. We were pregnant with our first child when she took her job. We negotiated maternity leave and all started well. As time went on she got busier and busier. We asked that they hire another doc but that was not an option. We continued to work and got pregnant with #2. Her partner that owned the practice offered her a contract making significantly less and deleted the maternity portion of the contract. We nicely declined and he greeted her with a copy box for her belongings and escorted her off the property. Nice guy right? We took a job with the hospital because we wanted to be close to grandparents and loved where we lived. Her practice literally exploded over night. Soon she was 70-80 hours a week and miserable. We once again begged for more partners, but the hospital was un able to find anyone... for 18 months. Finally we drew a line in the dirt and gave them a deadline to make changes. They drug their feet and got very angry when she resigned. AMAZINGLY four weeks later they found another doc.This is pretty epic. Work life balance is really important. I've heard horror stories from doc friends about workloads. One doc friend's wife was complaining that 2 of the 4 docs were going to be gone. I said "there is no reason why your husband's office cannot bring someone else in temporarily." I thought this was important because one of the 2 that was out was on mat leave (someone I know), and it's not like you can't predict that.
Had it not been for MMM we would never have made the changes to allow the switch. After the first doc escorted my wife from the property, we started to pay off debt and save $$$ like a fiend. We have gotten 3 "offers" to come back and we still laugh hysterically. We took a 35% cut in pay, but the DW works 3 days a week and quality of life has gone up tremendously. We can't save 60% of the pay anymore, but I can still keep 30% if we stick to the plans. Having a wife and mother back in our home is priceless!
I don't know if this qualifies for epic but it happened none the less. The DW is a doc that decided to come back to where we grew up to practice medicine. We were pregnant with our first child when she took her job. We negotiated maternity leave and all started well. As time went on she got busier and busier. We asked that they hire another doc but that was not an option. We continued to work and got pregnant with #2. Her partner that owned the practice offered her a contract making significantly less and deleted the maternity portion of the contract. We nicely declined and he greeted her with a copy box for her belongings and escorted her off the property. Nice guy right? We took a job with the hospital because we wanted to be close to grandparents and loved where we lived. Her practice literally exploded over night. Soon she was 70-80 hours a week and miserable. We once again begged for more partners, but the hospital was un able to find anyone... for 18 months. Finally we drew a line in the dirt and gave them a deadline to make changes. They drug their feet and got very angry when she resigned. AMAZINGLY four weeks later they found another doc.
Had it not been for MMM we would never have made the changes to allow the switch. After the first doc escorted my wife from the property, we started to pay off debt and save $$$ like a fiend. We have gotten 3 "offers" to come back and we still laugh hysterically. We took a 35% cut in pay, but the DW works 3 days a week and quality of life has gone up tremendously. We can't save 60% of the pay anymore, but I can still keep 30% if we stick to the plans. Having a wife and mother back in our home is priceless!
I'm hoping to be able to add to this thread next week. Notice goes in on Monday all thanks to FU money!!!
I'm hoping to be able to add to this thread next week. Notice goes in on Monday all thanks to FU money!!!
I'm hoping to be able to add to this thread next week. Notice goes in on Monday all thanks to FU money!!!
Are you my coworker? She just gave notice!
I'm hoping to be able to add to this thread next week. Notice goes in on Monday all thanks to FU money!!!
Are you my coworker? She just gave notice!
Hoping for unlikely coincidence.
Anticipatory FU story coming in:
My wife and I moved recently and last year she wasn't able to have Christmas with her family. This year, they're flying out and we'll spend some time with them; the first Christmas she'd have spent with them in a few years, and their first time visiting us.
She asked off for the 26th of December and was denied PTO - back over three months ago. So she's going to call out sick. If they fire her, so be it. It's ridiculous that with so much notice, in her line of work, she "can't" take that time off when family is in town. We've got the cash to deal with her getting fired if that's what happens. Feelsgoodman
Most excellent. It's a great feeling to look your boss in the eye and dare him to fire you that way. FU money is awesome. My guess is they will shrivel in fear and just let it pass. It would be dumb of them to make a big deal out of it.
Here is a short one that will warm your heart. Longtime friend and former coworker works at megacorp. He works from home in IT but in the bizarro world of LIMS systems for pharmaceutical company. Supports a dozen or so sites around the world and is sharp as a tack, easily 3-4x the productivity of the average Joe. He makes very good 6 figure income, bonus, LTI in a LCOL area. He is 49, paid off house, completely FI and a single part time dad.
His boss dumps a metric ass load of work on him and she laughs about it. The laughing part was an error.
He says, "you know, I think I am going to just retire or go part time. I really am working too many hours now and this ass load of work you laugh about is really not funny. I might be convinced to work a maximum of 20 hours a week with no travel, no stupid meetings, and no overtime. And I mean no overtime!" She freaks out and is flying in next week to talk about it. My guess is he will tell her he is done and she can take her ass load of work to some other donkey or he will consult at $250-300 an hour when he feels like it. I asked him if he uses a sling to support his enormous balls. :) details to follow.
This is going to be gooood...let us know what happens!
Thisisn'tis very epic
Anticipatory FU story coming in:
My wife and I moved recently and last year she wasn't able to have Christmas with her family. This year, they're flying out and we'll spend some time with them; the first Christmas she'd have spent with them in a few years, and their first time visiting us.
She asked off for the 26th of December and was denied PTO - back over three months ago. So she's going to call out sick. If they fire her, so be it. It's ridiculous that with so much notice, in her line of work, she "can't" take that time off when family is in town. We've got the cash to deal with her getting fired if that's what happens. Feelsgoodman
Most excellent. It's a great feeling to look your boss in the eye and dare him to fire you that way. FU money is awesome. My guess is they will shrivel in fear and just let it pass. It would be dumb of them to make a big deal out of it.
So what happened with this?
It’ll be a while until I have my own stories, but recently my grandparents were offered close to 700k€ for their garden plot. There’s no house on that land, only a 60sqm (650 sq feet) bungalow.They sound smart and badass!
They declined. There’s nothing they would want to buy with that money, except a new garden which would inevitably be smaller and further away from everything else.
Ok, technically it is a house. I just wanted to point out that there is no luxury McMansion on this land that would justify the price. It's just 2500sqm (27k sq feet) of conifers, lawns, and fruit trees.It’ll be a while until I have my own stories, but recently my grandparents were offered close to 700k€ for their garden plot. There’s no house on that land, only a 60sqm (650 sq feet) bungalow.They sound smart and badass!
They declined. There’s nothing they would want to buy with that money, except a new garden which would inevitably be smaller and further away from everything else.
Now, I must ask: Why do you not consider a bungalow a house? Isn't it just a type of house, albeit on the smaller side?
Hmmm, 27k sq. feet is a McMansion, luxurious though you say it is not. Is it so large that you grow conifers, lawns and fruit trees inside? I'm kidding (sort of), but are you saying it is a small house on a large wooded lot?Ok, technically it is a house. I just wanted to point out that there is no luxury McMansion on this land that would justify the price. It's just 2500sqm (27k sq feet) of conifers, lawns, and fruit trees.It’ll be a while until I have my own stories, but recently my grandparents were offered close to 700k€ for their garden plot. There’s no house on that land, only a 60sqm (650 sq feet) bungalow.They sound smart and badass!
They declined. There’s nothing they would want to buy with that money, except a new garden which would inevitably be smaller and further away from everything else.
Now, I must ask: Why do you not consider a bungalow a house? Isn't it just a type of house, albeit on the smaller side?
Hmmm, 27k sq. feet is a McMansion, luxurious though you say it is not. Is it so large that you grow conifers, lawns and fruit trees inside? I'm kidding (sort of), but are you saying it is a small house on a large wooded lot?Yes, 27k is the size of the lot, not the house.
Man, my brain is slow. I blame the insomnia. So the bungalow-sized house is 650 s.f. and it's on 2700 s.f. of verdant land? In my part of the world, that price would be crazy low. Just a point of clarification to understand what youre describing. There is no denying from whence badassity flows in your family. What an awesome legacy!Hmmm, 27k sq. feet is a McMansion, luxurious though you say it is not. Is it so large that you grow conifers, lawns and fruit trees inside? I'm kidding (sort of), but are you saying it is a small house on a large wooded lot?Yes, 27k is the size of the lot, not the house.
Anticipatory FU story coming in:
My wife and I moved recently and last year she wasn't able to have Christmas with her family. This year, they're flying out and we'll spend some time with them; the first Christmas she'd have spent with them in a few years, and their first time visiting us.
She asked off for the 26th of December and was denied PTO - back over three months ago. So she's going to call out sick. If they fire her, so be it. It's ridiculous that with so much notice, in her line of work, she "can't" take that time off when family is in town. We've got the cash to deal with her getting fired if that's what happens. Feelsgoodman
Most excellent. It's a great feeling to look your boss in the eye and dare him to fire you that way. FU money is awesome. My guess is they will shrivel in fear and just let it pass. It would be dumb of them to make a big deal out of it.
So what happened with this?
Sorry, it's been a while since I have checked this. She ended up going in late and leaving early. Things at work turned around quite a bit after I'd posted so we had a bit of a change of heart haha
This is by far my FAVORITE thread and I really want to contribute. So I have two stories, they aren’t mine, but my dad’s. He is the reason I always made sure we had a little pile stashed away just in case.
A little background, my dad retired from the Air Force after about 20 years when he was in his early 40s. He suddenly and tragically passed away at the age of 54 and 11 months due to a genetic heart condition that was never caught. But he did get in about 15 vital and fantastic years of retirement instead of dying at a desk. He has always been my hero for showing me the power of having a plan and that you don’t need to do what everyone else was doing. These stories are after he retired so he had plenty of walking away money.
My dad always liked people and enjoyed helping them, so after retiring he became a life insurance salesman. I remember as a kid seeing my dad going off to study for his test. That had a real impact on me, seeing someone I respected actually take the time to learn something new and work for a goal. Anyway, after being on the job for a few years he was contacted by an older couple that wanted to change over their current insurance company to his.
He met with them and looked over all the policies and such. It turned out that if they changed to his company they would lose out on a really good, well priced policy they currently had. So, he told them how to restructure and supplement what they currently had to meet their new needs so they wouldn’t need a whole new policy nor need to change companies. Sure he didn’t make a sale, but he was able help out this nice couple and he felt pretty good about it.
A few days later his boss figured out what happened and called him into the office. He told my dad “your job here is to sell insurance, not help people.” And my dad replied “And that’s why I don’t work here anymore,” and he walked out. That was the last day my dad ever sold insurance. As a kid you can imagine the impact this had on me and how I thought about my dad.
The second story is more about attitude and not needed to put up with garbage 😊.
After a few years of having no employment a friend of my dad’s was looking for someone that could teach political science at the local commuter college. They were getting desperate. The pay wasn’t very good and they couldn’t find anyone. So, since my dad was a political science/geography masters he decided teaching college might be fun and took the job. Things went well for the first semester, though my dad HATED wearing a tie and nice (read uncomfortable) shoes, but he was always good about dressing the part. In the second semester one of the higher up muckity mucks asked my dad to park over in the field so that the students coming in late could find a place to park. This did not go over well. My dad was not going to park his jaguar in the mud so some late comers could have better parking. Out of respect for the students my dad did continue teaching until the end of the semester (he never did tell us where he parked, but I can tell you it wasn’t in the mud) and then quit. After that he declared he would not wear another tie or pair of uncomfortable shoes except for weddings and funerals.
And he didn’t. The last time he wore a tie was for my wedding. He was happy about it because it matched my mom’s outfit perfectly and he was always good about dressing the part😊. He died less than a year later.
....And my dad replied “And that’s why I don’t work here anymore,” and he walked out...
I'm in traveling healthcare, and because of my stash I am able to take long breaks between assignments without too much worry. Today was my last day and I got questioned about 100 times from my coworkers about what I was doing next. A few were a little wide eyed when I smiled ear to ear and said "I'm unemployed!!"
Every contract starts out promising and I think "This is a nice place! Maybe I can stay here" but then after about 3 months I am just pacing in my cage waiting to run away as soon as the door opens. And now I'm free!!!!!!! It's not really an epic FU story, but it allows me to keep building my stash and not be afraid of the insecurity of the job schedule I have. Honestly since I graduated with my degree I have not been able to keep a full time job for more than 9 months. Not because I'm a bad employee! I still have standing offers for pretty much any job I have ever left (the fact that ALL of them are still unfilled or have high turnover should tell you something). I am just counting down the years to FIRE. But these long breaks let me breathe a little bit. And seek needed medical and dental care lol. A vacation to go to the doctor!
The plan this time is just to get a part time job over the holidays, now that my health insurance is coming through COBRA for a few months. My expenses are so low that even with a part time job I should be able to increase the 'stache.
....And my dad replied “And that’s why I don’t work here anymore,” and he walked out...
Boom. I would never be able to think this quickly in a situation like this. Epic.
Not sure if this qualifies as "epic" as I think I'm leaving with positive feelings all around and without telling anyone off, but my parents need my help, so I quit my job of 10+ years. It's funny - I'm a little apprehensive even though we have over a year of expenses in our rainy day fund and my wife is still working...and we could live on her salary indefinitely. Not sure what I'm afraid of TBH, but I think I'm learning that I may have built too much of my self-identity around my work.
I really don't know what's next, but I've given myself permission to not try to get into anything else until the fall. Nice to have the option to take this time, and it's interesting to me to see my co-worker's reactions -- people were generally congratulatory and supportive, but there were a few who seemed surprised I could afford to be out of work for an extended time. heh heh heh, that's the power of the mustache...
One of the more senior people in my team went in to the boss, set down a contract for a lateral move to a comparable market for a 50% raise, and said "it would be fiscally irresponsible for me to work here any longer", then walked out. I would have killed to see the look on the boss's face!That quote is Epic! Glad to see you back in these parts, grantmeaname. You were missed.
You guys are awesome, such an inspiring thread!
In late 2007/early 2008 I was in my early 20’s working as a Customer Service Rep for a small business. I don’t remember how much I was making per hour, but it wasn’t much. Almost every week the manager would add more tasks, many of which were not related to my job title. When I asked for a raise to compensate for the additional tasks I was told it’s a small business and they didn’t have job descriptions. It was a dead-end job, but at the time I didn’t have a degree so I felt stuck.
The office culture was awful, with one coworker in particular who would to walk around basically being noisy. The manager would come into my office with petty complaints like a coworker had seen me reading a book at my desk (which I stated was during lunch break and not against company policy). The owners were equally awful and turn over in upper management was high: a new higher up would come in, change a bunch of things that didn’t matter, while not dealing with the actual issues, then leave or be fired. I was even forced to vacate my office and take a desk randomly placed on the main floor with a lot of traffic for a manager that worked at another location, in case he needed to come to our building – He never once used the office.
The last straw was when the company hired an Accounts Payable person with a fancy degree at another location, but I was pretty much doing his job and just scanning my work to him (where he probably took all the credit). Even though I didn’t have much FU money, I also didn’t have any debt. When I refused to continue doing his work, I ended up getting fired for “complaining about doing my job”. I collected unemployment (which the manager tried to block) and went back to college. Best thing that ever happened to me!
Last month we decided that we going to put that house back as rental. I think we are feed up with them, and we have some family situation that we need to deal with, so no time for this BS. Within 1 day of putting for rent sign, this same guy contacted us that he wants to meet and talk. I text him back, nope house is for rent. He was like what you mean... we are interested... LMAO! It felt sooo good to tell this guy the house is not for sale
Last month we decided that we going to put that house back as rental. I think we are feed up with them, and we have some family situation that we need to deal with, so no time for this BS. Within 1 day of putting for rent sign, this same guy contacted us that he wants to meet and talk. I text him back, nope house is for rent. He was like what you mean... we are interested... LMAO! It felt sooo good to tell this guy the house is not for sale
You can also just tell him that you need full listing price, he's got until you get a renter in there ;)
"Yes. This ^^^. "I'm so glad to hear that you are still interested in the house AS IS. I look forward to receiving an offer from your real estate agent by end of business day tomorrow."
I hate "buyers" like this. They pull this shit, hoping you'll cave. Then they laugh at you and brag to their friends how stupid you are and what a great deal they made. Tell him to fuck right off. Then block his number. THAT'S FU money at work.Quote"Yes. This ^^^. "I'm so glad to hear that you are still interested in the house AS IS. I look forward to receiving an offer from your real estate agent by end of business day tomorrow."
Fixed that for you. :)
So most story here is related to job, but thought this story might be appropriate to post here.Are you dealing with my brother-in-law? Oh, wait you said big family.
We want to sell one of our rental house last fall. Not the best time to sell the house but we want to try it anyway. We had some people who looked at the house. One guy with his big family from South Asia was interested. We met several time, talked over the phone, text, during winter but can not close the deal. They keep wanting more discount, we gave them our bottom line price. It just drags on and on, and starting to get annoying. They would be in contact, and say we will call you but then no news for 2-3 weeks. Then they get in contact again, asking bunch of questions. Then nothing for 2-3 weeks. Then get in contact again. How about new carpet (the house has new carpet but they do not like it). How about getting us new kitchen with marble countertop (wth?). How about new appliances... how about ceiling fans... etc. He was nice, but just amazing how much crap he was wanting us to do eventhough up front I told him we are not doing anything for you. The house is as is. And I mentioned to him come Spring, I may change my mind or someone will buy it for my asking price. There are very limited house for sale in this area because it is within great school district after they re-do the school district.
Last month we decided that we going to put that house back as rental. I think we are feed up with them, and we have some family situation that we need to deal with, so no time for this BS. Within 1 day of putting for rent sign, this same guy contacted us that he wants to meet and talk. I text him back, nope house is for rent. He was like what you mean... we are interested... LMAO! It felt sooo good to tell this guy the house is not for sale
I hate "buyers" like this. They pull this shit, hoping you'll cave. Then they laugh at you and brag to their friends how stupid you are and what a great deal they made. Tell him to fuck right off. Then block his number. THAT'S FU money at work.Quote"Yes. This ^^^. "I'm so glad to hear that you are still interested in the house AS IS. I look forward to receiving an offer from your real estate agent by end of business day tomorrow."
Fixed that for you. :)
Are you dealing with my brother-in-law? Oh, wait you said big family.
My BIL (also South Asia) negotiates like that. I'm sure he drives people crazy with his requests,
he continually tries to drive the price down. It works for him, but I'd be embarrassed to do that to people.
@AnnaGrowsAMustache that is phenomenal!! I was hoping something like that would end up happening after that fell through for you. Congratulations! :)
@AnnaGrowsAMustache that is phenomenal!! I was hoping something like that would end up happening after that fell through for you. Congratulations! :)
Thanks. It's all been a bit weird, but hopefully good in the end.
And to the other poster, yes, it'll be nice to walk to. I used to work just a few doors down from the location, and walked to work then on all the fine days. Very pleasant.
I agree with Dicey 100%. No need to let this person back into your life because he'll just start trying to negotiate again. Glad you're rid of him and you'll prob end up making bank long term with the rental. Nice job! Gosh, FU money just gives you more power in every aspect of negotiation! Congrats!I hate "buyers" like this. They pull this shit, hoping you'll cave. Then they laugh at you and brag to their friends how stupid you are and what a great deal they made. Tell him to fuck right off. Then block his number. THAT'S FU money at work.Quote"Yes. This ^^^. "I'm so glad to hear that you are still interested in the house AS IS. I look forward to receiving an offer from your real estate agent by end of business day tomorrow."
Fixed that for you. :)
To each his own. If the unit is still available (e.g. not rented), I would probably offer the unit back to the buyer --- at an increased price. I would not let them derail my plans (rent or whatever).I agree with Dicey 100%. No need to let this person back into your life because he'll just start trying to negotiate again. Glad you're rid of him and you'll prob end up making bank long term with the rental. Nice job! Gosh, FU money just gives you more power in every aspect of negotiation! Congrats!I hate "buyers" like this. They pull this shit, hoping you'll cave. Then they laugh at you and brag to their friends how stupid you are and what a great deal they made. Tell him to fuck right off. Then block his number. THAT'S FU money at work.Quote"Yes. This ^^^. "I'm so glad to hear that you are still interested in the house AS IS. I look forward to receiving an offer from your real estate agent by end of business day tomorrow."
Fixed that for you. :)
@AnnaGrowsAMustache that is phenomenal!! I was hoping something like that would end up happening after that fell through for you. Congratulations! :)
Thanks. It's all been a bit weird, but hopefully good in the end.
And to the other poster, yes, it'll be nice to walk to. I used to work just a few doors down from the location, and walked to work then on all the fine days. Very pleasant.
That is fantastic @AnnaGrowsAMustache !! Congratulations! That sounds like the holy grail of jobs -- senior level, high pay, and you can walk to work -- completely epic.
To each his own. If the unit is still available (e.g. not rented), I would probably offer the unit back to the buyer --- at an increased price. I would not let them derail my plans (rent or whatever).I agree with Dicey 100%. No need to let this person back into your life because he'll just start trying to negotiate again. Glad you're rid of him and you'll prob end up making bank long term with the rental. Nice job! Gosh, FU money just gives you more power in every aspect of negotiation! Congrats!I hate "buyers" like this. They pull this shit, hoping you'll cave. Then they laugh at you and brag to their friends how stupid you are and what a great deal they made. Tell him to fuck right off. Then block his number. THAT'S FU money at work.Quote"Yes. This ^^^. "I'm so glad to hear that you are still interested in the house AS IS. I look forward to receiving an offer from your real estate agent by end of business day tomorrow."
Fixed that for you. :)
OK, so this has been a bit of a saga but it's turned out slightly epic!
(snip)
So.... now I have a challenging senior-level job, paying more than twice what I was getting last year, at an expanding company AND it's close enough to walk to. Epic!
OK, so this has been a bit of a saga but it's turned out slightly epic!epic!
Late last year I worked in a job that had long since outgrown it's job description and rate of pay. I was stressed and burned out. I'd been in discussions with management for a few months but they weren't prepared to alter either the pay rate or the responsibilities. I wasn't get anywhere near market rate for what I was doing.
So, I gave notice and started looking. I'm not a person that can just stick around when I'm not happy. Anyhoo, I ended up applying for a job I thought was WAY out of my league and asking for slightly silly money for it. I got the interview, got told I was the preferred candidate but before I could take the job, the person that was currently doing it withdrew their notice and there turned out not to be a job at all.
I've been unemployed for 3 months over xmas. Last week, the people that interviewed me for the out-of-my-league job phoned and asked me to apply for a job they were advertising. I had an interview the next day, and a job offer the day after that at the silly money rate I'd asked for in the interview for the first job!
So.... now I have a challenging senior-level job, paying more than twice what I was getting last year, at an expanding company AND it's close enough to walk to. Epic!
Thanks for all the supportive and congratulatory comments, everyone. I've had quite a few IRL as well, which kind of makes up for the stupid comments I got while unemployed. One person, who will never find himself in a position to hire or fire anyone, told me that he wouldn't hire me because of my job history - he feels that 4-6 year stints in jobs shows a lack of commitment. Another person told me I was stupid and irresponsible for quitting. I don't quite know how.... my bills are all paid, no one's going without, even the cat's still eating his premium raw meat. The boss that I quit told me she felt betrayed by my resignation. Um..... you could have paid me what I was worth. I know that going against the majority's idea of how things should work is always difficult, but this experience has been something of an eye opener. FU money is such a good thing!I am finding your story to be VERY inspiring. Congratulations on the new job!
Thanks for all the supportive and congratulatory comments, everyone. I've had quite a few IRL as well, which kind of makes up for the stupid comments I got while unemployed. One person, who will never find himself in a position to hire or fire anyone, told me that he wouldn't hire me because of my job history - he feels that 4-6 year stints in jobs shows a lack of commitment. Another person told me I was stupid and irresponsible for quitting. I don't quite know how.... my bills are all paid, no one's going without, even the cat's still eating his premium raw meat. The boss that I quit told me she felt betrayed by my resignation. Um..... you could have paid me what I was worth. I know that going against the majority's idea of how things should work is always difficult, but this experience has been something of an eye opener. FU money is such a good thing!
4-6 years is a long time now a days!Exactly what I was thinking!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for all the supportive and congratulatory comments, everyone. I've had quite a few IRL as well, which kind of makes up for the stupid comments I got while unemployed. One person, who will never find himself in a position to hire or fire anyone, told me that he wouldn't hire me because of my job history - he feels that 4-6 year stints in jobs shows a lack of commitment. Another person told me I was stupid and irresponsible for quitting. I don't quite know how.... my bills are all paid, no one's going without, even the cat's still eating his premium raw meat. The boss that I quit told me she felt betrayed by my resignation. Um..... you could have paid me what I was worth. I know that going against the majority's idea of how things should work is always difficult, but this experience has been something of an eye opener. FU money is such a good thing!
Thanks for all the supportive and congratulatory comments, everyone. I've had quite a few IRL as well, which kind of makes up for the stupid comments I got while unemployed. One person, who will never find himself in a position to hire or fire anyone, told me that he wouldn't hire me because of my job history - he feels that 4-6 year stints in jobs shows a lack of commitment. Another person told me I was stupid and irresponsible for quitting. I don't quite know how.... my bills are all paid, no one's going without, even the cat's still eating his premium raw meat. The boss that I quit told me she felt betrayed by my resignation. Um..... you could have paid me what I was worth. I know that going against the majority's idea of how things should work is always difficult, but this experience has been something of an eye opener. FU money is such a good thing!
4-6 year stints do show a lack of commitment...on the part of the employer, not the employee. If my previous employer would've preemptively given me the 60% raise that my current employer did, I wouldn't have been looking for other jobs! I'm sure that's not what he meant, but it's true :D
Thanks for all the supportive and congratulatory comments, everyone. I've had quite a few IRL as well, which kind of makes up for the stupid comments I got while unemployed. One person, who will never find himself in a position to hire or fire anyone, told me that he wouldn't hire me because of my job history - he feels that 4-6 year stints in jobs shows a lack of commitment. Another person told me I was stupid and irresponsible for quitting. I don't quite know how.... my bills are all paid, no one's going without, even the cat's still eating his premium raw meat. The boss that I quit told me she felt betrayed by my resignation. Um..... you could have paid me what I was worth. I know that going against the majority's idea of how things should work is always difficult, but this experience has been something of an eye opener. FU money is such a good thing!
Next time old boss gives you grief and/or shares her feeling of betrayal (WTF?):
Read elsewhere on this forum: "it would be financially irresponsible of me not to take this new job." BURN!! : 0 )
Did not tell anyone to FU but I find it's becoming harder and harder to stay focused as our financial independence grows. We are going to stick it out until 62, another 11 years, because we have definite goals we want to accomplish in retirement. I'm just hoping we don't pull the trigger early and have to compromise a goal or two.
Did not tell anyone to FU but I find it's becoming harder and harder to stay focused as our financial independence grows. We are going to stick it out until 62, another 11 years, because we have definite goals we want to accomplish in retirement. I'm just hoping we don't pull the trigger early and have to compromise a goal or two.
I'd rather compromise a goal or two than work until 62, but that's just me.
People die at every age, said the person who turned sixty this week and thankfully didn't die. Getting out early is priceless. I have no goals that are worth waiting that long for. I got out at 54 and wish I could have done so even earlier.+1,000,000Did not tell anyone to FU but I find it's becoming harder and harder to stay focused as our financial independence grows. We are going to stick it out until 62, another 11 years, because we have definite goals we want to accomplish in retirement. I'm just hoping we don't pull the trigger early and have to compromise a goal or two.
I'd rather compromise a goal or two than work until 62, but that's just me.
I plan to FI in 11 years, and maybe RE if I want. People die at 60 all. the. time.
It depends what they mean by "as our financial independence grows." If they're now at 2x their current spend rate they're pretty much stuck waiting ~11 years. If they're at 50x their current spend rate, but want to increase their spend rate by 3x, then I'd probably compromise in between the two somewhere.People die at every age, said the person who turned sixty this week and thankfully didn't die. Getting out early is priceless. I have no goals that are worth waiting that long for. I got out at 54 and wish I could have done so even earlier.+1,000,000Did not tell anyone to FU but I find it's becoming harder and harder to stay focused as our financial independence grows. We are going to stick it out until 62, another 11 years, because we have definite goals we want to accomplish in retirement. I'm just hoping we don't pull the trigger early and have to compromise a goal or two.
I'd rather compromise a goal or two than work until 62, but that's just me.
I plan to FI in 11 years, and maybe RE if I want. People die at 60 all. the. time.
Did not tell anyone to FU but I find it's becoming harder and harder to stay focused as our financial independence grows. We are going to stick it out until 62, another 11 years, because we have definite goals we want to accomplish in retirement. I'm just hoping we don't pull the trigger early and have to compromise a goal or two.
I'd rather compromise a goal or two than work until 62, but that's just me.
Did not tell anyone to FU but I find it's becoming harder and harder to stay focused as our financial independence grows. We are going to stick it out until 62, another 11 years, because we have definite goals we want to accomplish in retirement. I'm just hoping we don't pull the trigger early and have to compromise a goal or two.
I'd rather compromise a goal or two than work until 62, but that's just me.
That is indeed just you. One of our goals is to start a non-profit to work with disadvantaged kids for early intervention in acquisition of math knowledge. All studies show they younger they are, the more likely they'll one day be able to obtain higher math skills. Our lives are not based solely around our selfish needs and this goal is important to us. Each to his own I say.
Did not tell anyone to FU but I find it's becoming harder and harder to stay focused as our financial independence grows. We are going to stick it out until 62, another 11 years, because we have definite goals we want to accomplish in retirement. I'm just hoping we don't pull the trigger early and have to compromise a goal or two.
I'd rather compromise a goal or two than work until 62, but that's just me.
That is indeed just you. One of our goals is to start a non-profit to work with disadvantaged kids for early intervention in acquisition of math knowledge. All studies show they younger they are, the more likely they'll one day be able to obtain higher math skills. Our lives are not based solely around our selfish needs and this goal is important to us. Each to his own I say.
How come you aren't starting that now?
@NinetyFour is a soon to be retired teacher of math teachers who does non-profit work on math teaching, you might have a lot in common.Did not tell anyone to FU but I find it's becoming harder and harder to stay focused as our financial independence grows. We are going to stick it out until 62, another 11 years, because we have definite goals we want to accomplish in retirement. I'm just hoping we don't pull the trigger early and have to compromise a goal or two.
I'd rather compromise a goal or two than work until 62, but that's just me.
That is indeed just you. One of our goals is to start a non-profit to work with disadvantaged kids for early intervention in acquisition of math knowledge. All studies show they younger they are, the more likely they'll one day be able to obtain higher math skills. Our lives are not based solely around our selfish needs and this goal is important to us. Each to his own I say.
Did not tell anyone to FU but I find it's becoming harder and harder to stay focused as our financial independence grows. We are going to stick it out until 62, another 11 years, because we have definite goals we want to accomplish in retirement. I'm just hoping we don't pull the trigger early and have to compromise a goal or two.
I'd rather compromise a goal or two than work until 62, but that's just me.
That is indeed just you. One of our goals is to start a non-profit to work with disadvantaged kids for early intervention in acquisition of math knowledge. All studies show they younger they are, the more likely they'll one day be able to obtain higher math skills. Our lives are not based solely around our selfish needs and this goal is important to us. Each to his own I say.
How come you aren't starting that now?
OK, without the snippiness on all sides, I'm quite curious about this. Have you figured out some of the details? Who is going to do the teaching? What metrics will you use, and how will you know if/when the program is working? What lure will you offer to get kids and families to participate?
This might need its own thread (probably best placed in Off-Topic), but I've often thought that providing additional support for the 2nd - 4th grade age group would be enormously helpful, and would love to know how you're thinking about approaching this.
@Prairie Stash I love this story! Being in a position to take no shit is so powerful! Well done to both of you.Can't wait to hear the rest of this story. Well done!
Prairie Stash, I'm curious to hear how it plays out and, if they don't accept "no", on what grounds they legally terminate her employment. I wouldn't be surprised if they just let her part-time arrangement continue (if they want to force her into full-time I assume there's enough work that they'd have to replace her, which is an extra hassle). Way to go, both of you, for being able to say no!If they live in an "at will" employment state there doesn't need to be any reason to legally terminate her, but then she will usually qualify for collecting unemployment if it's not "for cause".
Prairie Stash, I'm curious to hear how it plays out and, if they don't accept "no", on what grounds they legally terminate her employment. I wouldn't be surprised if they just let her part-time arrangement continue (if they want to force her into full-time I assume there's enough work that they'd have to replace her, which is an extra hassle). Way to go, both of you, for being able to say no!If they live in an "at will" employment state there doesn't need to be any reason to legally terminate her, but then she will usually qualify for collecting unemployment if it's not "for cause".
I'm so very happy.
My wife just used the FU money a couple hours ago. She has been employed at 60% time; 24 hours/week tuesday - thursday (3-8 hour shifts). This schedule started after her return from maternity leave so that she could spend more time with the kids and stay employed. It was the optimal solution for us, everyone was happy and we kept on saving. The kids have a little time away from us with other kids, we get more time than we use to with the kids.
Yesterday she was told thats coming to an end, she needs to go to full time. As she is late 30's with two kids, I think her supervisor expected compliance, I think it came as a surprse when my wife wanted to mull it over. As in all these caes the unspoken alternative was she's out of work, no one ever thinks people will consider that option. Luckily for us, we have a decent stash, she isn't bound by normal conventions of needing to cover rent and can live the life she wants. Still, its pretty scary to be confronted with it even after all this preparation.
In case it needs to be said, she said No to returning to full time work. The unspoken alternative is still not being whispered out loud, it happened so fast that I don't think its sunk in yet. I have no idea yet if they'll try to keep her or let her go, I suspect they feel she's bluffing. She still wants to work at 60%, but shes willing to never work again, I'm also sitting on the precipice of FIRE, we're just saving so we can live a few years overseas as a family at this point.
It just makes me so happy that she can make her choice. If she's out of work, her last day should fall on our anniversary. I think that will gurantee I'm husband of the year which is great; however looking forward I'm pretty much going to be a dissapointment for the rest of our anniversaries though, this is impossible to beat.
Fast forward two years and another woman has a baby, and wants to work part time, 25 hours. They say yes! She's in the critical path! And even better, the VP tells her "yeah, we made a mistake with mm1970." Even though I already had a job lined up, I didn't need it.
Read elsewhere on this forum: "it would be financially irresponsible of me not to take this new job." BURN!! : 0 )
To the prior poster: because we want both our retirement and our non-profit efforts to be properly capitalized. Not being properly capitalized for both those goals would just be foolish, and while I'm far from the sharpest tool in the shed, I at least like to think I'm not foolish.
It did take one more round. After about 2 years they pressured her to go back full time and she said no. They kept pressuring her until she eventually quit (she also had changes in her childcare, so it wasn't 100% that, but partially.)
Fast forward two years and another woman has a baby, and wants to work part time, 25 hours. They say yes! She's in the critical path! And even better, the VP tells her "yeah, we made a mistake with mm1970." Even though I already had a job lined up, I didn't need it.
@mm1970 -- what a great story. You paved the path for someone else. And kudos also to the VP for realizing and admitting to a mistake. So many people just refuse to acknowledge mistakes and then continue to dig deeper. Your story is refreshing.
Prairie Stash, I'm curious to hear how it plays out and, if they don't accept "no", on what grounds they legally terminate her employment. I wouldn't be surprised if they just let her part-time arrangement continue (if they want to force her into full-time I assume there's enough work that they'd have to replace her, which is an extra hassle). Way to go, both of you, for being able to say no!If they live in an "at will" employment state there doesn't need to be any reason to legally terminate her, but then she will usually qualify for collecting unemployment if it's not "for cause".
IIRC (and scanning past posts) I think he's Canadian. So maybe there will be a nice severance package on offer. :)))))
To the prior poster: because we want both our retirement and our non-profit efforts to be properly capitalized. Not being properly capitalized for both those goals would just be foolish, and while I'm far from the sharpest tool in the shed, I at least like to think I'm not foolish.
Have you been turned down in all of your grant proposals? How many have you submitted?
To the prior poster: because we want both our retirement and our non-profit efforts to be properly capitalized. Not being properly capitalized for both those goals would just be foolish, and while I'm far from the sharpest tool in the shed, I at least like to think I'm not foolish.
Have you been turned down in all of your grant proposals? How many have you submitted?
Oh, knock it off -- you're just being a jerk at this point. If they don't hate their jobs, and they know what level will be comfortable for them (both in terms of risk and spending), they're working to reach those goals. MYOFB, already.
To the prior poster: because we want both our retirement and our non-profit efforts to be properly capitalized. Not being properly capitalized for both those goals would just be foolish, and while I'm far from the sharpest tool in the shed, I at least like to think I'm not foolish.
Have you been turned down in all of your grant proposals? How many have you submitted?
Oh, knock it off -- you're just being a jerk at this point. If they don't hate their jobs, and they know what level will be comfortable for them (both in terms of risk and spending), they're working to reach those goals. MYOFB, already.
My single polite post is "just being a jerk"?
You have awfully thin skin, White Knight. This is the land of Facepunches. That wasn't even a love tap. And if OP can't deal with that level of question themselves, they're going to fail at their stated goal. I've been involved in multiple nonprofits at both the grunt and management level, including fundraising.
Also, your dismissal of all grants because of your bad experiences with .edu grants is shortsighted and overly narrow in focus.
It's particularly ironic of you to stick your nose into my discussion with OP and then to nancy-around writing Mind Your Own Fucking Business. You could at least learn from your own acronym.
Grow up.
I have a FU story in progress; so I came in to work the other day and we got called into a meeting turns out my part of the Company (Company A) is getting sold to Company B. We got offered our same jobs at Company B with a small sign on bonus.Update- Now they are screwing us out of a redundancy, they said that as they are offering us equivalent jobs at Company B then there will be no redundancy payment if we don’t sign on to Company B.
It’s likely my DH is getting sent to HongKong for work for 6 months in May so I told work I’m not signing the contract with Company B ( I was originally thinking I would ask Company A to work remotely but Company B is a smaller and not international) I’m now hoping I will get a small redundancy. Even if we don’t end up going to HK, we have FU money so I can wait around for the redundancy and then look for another job.
HR said that they will have to try and find me a job in another part of the company before they look into redundancy. So, we will see what happens!
I’m one of the minority that can afford to hang around without a job.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
One person, who will never find himself in a position to hire or fire anyone, told me that he wouldn't hire me because of my job history - he feels that 4-6 year stints in jobs shows a lack of commitment.
Update- Now they are screwing us out of a redundancy, they said that as they are offering us equivalent jobs at Company B then there will be no redundancy payment if we don’t sign on to Company B.
They had sent an email week ago stating that there would be a redundancy payment and now they are saying there is not. I looked up the fair work act (Australia) and it’s correct that we are not actually entitled to a redundancy payment but I’m guessing that since they told us we are and now we are not there would be some room for argument, anyone know?
You can always argue anything, and if you have a trades union I'm sure they will be able to argue it on your behalf. I think a legal case based on estoppel (the idea that you can hold someone to their word if you have acted to your detriment as a result) probably doesn't apply because you hadn't lost the offer of the job at Company B before Company A changed their minds. But definitely one for the Australians to answer more definitively (or as least as definitively as any free legal opinion over the internet).I have a FU story in progress; so I came in to work the other day and we got called into a meeting turns out my part of the Company (Company A) is getting sold to Company B. We got offered our same jobs at Company B with a small sign on bonus.Update- Now they are screwing us out of a redundancy, they said that as they are offering us equivalent jobs at Company B then there will be no redundancy payment if we don’t sign on to Company B.
It’s likely my DH is getting sent to HongKong for work for 6 months in May so I told work I’m not signing the contract with Company B ( I was originally thinking I would ask Company A to work remotely but Company B is a smaller and not international) I’m now hoping I will get a small redundancy. Even if we don’t end up going to HK, we have FU money so I can wait around for the redundancy and then look for another job.
HR said that they will have to try and find me a job in another part of the company before they look into redundancy. So, we will see what happens!
I’m one of the minority that can afford to hang around without a job.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They had sent an email week ago stating that there would be a redundancy payment and now they are saying there is not. I looked up the fair work act (Australia) and it’s correct that we are not actually entitled to a redundancy payment but I’m guessing that since they told us we are and now we are not there would be some room for argument, anyone know?
You can always argue anything, and if you have a trades union I'm sure they will be able to argue it on your behalf. I think a legal case based on estoppel (the idea that you can hold someone to their word if you have acted to your detriment as a result) probably doesn't apply because you hadn't lost the offer of the job at Company B before Company A changed their minds. But definitely one for the Australians to answer more definitively (or as least as definitively as any free legal opinion over the internet).I have a FU story in progress; so I came in to work the other day and we got called into a meeting turns out my part of the Company (Company A) is getting sold to Company B. We got offered our same jobs at Company B with a small sign on bonus.Update- Now they are screwing us out of a redundancy, they said that as they are offering us equivalent jobs at Company B then there will be no redundancy payment if we don’t sign on to Company B.
It’s likely my DH is getting sent to HongKong for work for 6 months in May so I told work I’m not signing the contract with Company B ( I was originally thinking I would ask Company A to work remotely but Company B is a smaller and not international) I’m now hoping I will get a small redundancy. Even if we don’t end up going to HK, we have FU money so I can wait around for the redundancy and then look for another job.
HR said that they will have to try and find me a job in another part of the company before they look into redundancy. So, we will see what happens!
I’m one of the minority that can afford to hang around without a job.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They had sent an email week ago stating that there would be a redundancy payment and now they are saying there is not. I looked up the fair work act (Australia) and it’s correct that we are not actually entitled to a redundancy payment but I’m guessing that since they told us we are and now we are not there would be some room for argument, anyone know?
On a Thursday afternoon my bosses were off-site, and I was pretty bitter about the low pay and the long commute. I signed a new job offer, then I gave them email-notice that my last day was Friday/tomorrow. While they were out of the office I made my rounds and said goodbye to all the decent coworkers. A bunch of people in my department set up a going away party for me before the bosses could stop it. Despite being bitter they sort of had to show up anyway and be nice, at least publicly.
You can always argue anything, and if you have a trades union I'm sure they will be able to argue it on your behalf. I think a legal case based on estoppel (the idea that you can hold someone to their word if you have acted to your detriment as a result) probably doesn't apply because you hadn't lost the offer of the job at Company B before Company A changed their minds. But definitely one for the Australians to answer more definitively (or as least as definitively as any free legal opinion over the internet).I have a FU story in progress; so I came in to work the other day and we got called into a meeting turns out my part of the Company (Company A) is getting sold to Company B. We got offered our same jobs at Company B with a small sign on bonus.Update- Now they are screwing us out of a redundancy, they said that as they are offering us equivalent jobs at Company B then there will be no redundancy payment if we don’t sign on to Company B.
It’s likely my DH is getting sent to HongKong for work for 6 months in May so I told work I’m not signing the contract with Company B ( I was originally thinking I would ask Company A to work remotely but Company B is a smaller and not international) I’m now hoping I will get a small redundancy. Even if we don’t end up going to HK, we have FU money so I can wait around for the redundancy and then look for another job.
HR said that they will have to try and find me a job in another part of the company before they look into redundancy. So, we will see what happens!
I’m one of the minority that can afford to hang around without a job.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They had sent an email week ago stating that there would be a redundancy payment and now they are saying there is not. I looked up the fair work act (Australia) and it’s correct that we are not actually entitled to a redundancy payment but I’m guessing that since they told us we are and now we are not there would be some room for argument, anyone know?
Ditto. I don't think you could show any actual damages. But they suck :-/
It's nice to get paid for quitting, but that's not really the way the world works.
Thanks @shelivesthedream I will report back what happensQuoteIt's nice to get paid for quitting, but that's not really the way the world works.
Except it kind of is, though. You might think that you shouldn't get a redundancy payment (given that there is another job available) but they are very common and it is not unreasonable for the OP to expect their company to uphold professional norms. It's not like some huge treat - it's what companies do in this day and age.
You can always argue anything, and if you have a trades union I'm sure they will be able to argue it on your behalf. I think a legal case based on estoppel (the idea that you can hold someone to their word if you have acted to your detriment as a result) probably doesn't apply because you hadn't lost the offer of the job at Company B before Company A changed their minds. But definitely one for the Australians to answer more definitively (or as least as definitively as any free legal opinion over the internet).I have a FU story in progress; so I came in to work the other day and we got called into a meeting turns out my part of the Company (Company A) is getting sold to Company B. We got offered our same jobs at Company B with a small sign on bonus.Update- Now they are screwing us out of a redundancy, they said that as they are offering us equivalent jobs at Company B then there will be no redundancy payment if we don’t sign on to Company B.
It’s likely my DH is getting sent to HongKong for work for 6 months in May so I told work I’m not signing the contract with Company B ( I was originally thinking I would ask Company A to work remotely but Company B is a smaller and not international) I’m now hoping I will get a small redundancy. Even if we don’t end up going to HK, we have FU money so I can wait around for the redundancy and then look for another job.
HR said that they will have to try and find me a job in another part of the company before they look into redundancy. So, we will see what happens!
I’m one of the minority that can afford to hang around without a job.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They had sent an email week ago stating that there would be a redundancy payment and now they are saying there is not. I looked up the fair work act (Australia) and it’s correct that we are not actually entitled to a redundancy payment but I’m guessing that since they told us we are and now we are not there would be some room for argument, anyone know?
Ditto. I don't think you could show any actual damages. But they suck :-/
So they made a mistake in saying you would receive a redundancy payment. But really, why should they pay you to quit? They literally want to keep you working at your job and are including a bonus FOR YOU TO KEEP YOUR JOB. My employers pay me to work, but if I QUIT they wouldn't pay me extra money because I chose to not work with them. It's nice to get pay for quitting, but that's not really the way the world works. I'm not sure if there's more to the story, but you just seem salty that you can't get free money when you're providing no value to the company (if you leave).
QuoteIt's nice to get paid for quitting, but that's not really the way the world works.
Except it kind of is, though. You might think that you shouldn't get a redundancy payment (given that there is another job available) but they are very common and it is not unreasonable for the OP to expect their company to uphold professional norms. It's not like some huge treat - it's what companies do in this day and age.
QuoteIt's nice to get paid for quitting, but that's not really the way the world works.
Except it kind of is, though. You might think that you shouldn't get a redundancy payment (given that there is another job available) but they are very common and it is not unreasonable for the OP to expect their company to uphold professional norms. It's not like some huge treat - it's what companies do in this day and age.
I thought severance/redudancy pay was for people who were fired, not people who quit.
QuoteIt's nice to get paid for quitting, but that's not really the way the world works.
Except it kind of is, though. You might think that you shouldn't get a redundancy payment (given that there is another job available) but they are very common and it is not unreasonable for the OP to expect their company to uphold professional norms. It's not like some huge treat - it's what companies do in this day and age.
I thought severance/redudancy pay was for people who were fired, not people who quit.
Being fired and being made redundant are different. If you're fired its because you personally did something so they fire you and hire someone else to do your old job. Being made redundant means that the company decides your job doesn't exist any more. They may offer you something roughly equivalent, but you can argue that it's not the same job and they have basically made you unemployed through no fault of your own. Again, you may believe that redundancy payouts shouldn't exist, but the fact is that a great many companies will then offer you X months salary as a kind of apology. Why? Well, if nothing else, word gets around and it makes them look like nice people who care about their (former) employees.
DH now has an epic FU money story. He's a Subject Matter Expert on a specific skill at his job, and the only one who really understands it. His grandboss has recently been pushing him to compromise his standards for documentation that was going into a governmental submission to sell products in a specific country. He was told that he just had to fit 10 gallons of sh*t in a 5 gallon bucket.
His "no"s went repeatedly unacknowledged until an actual deadline was missed (his warning of which was also ignored), then he was hauled into the office for a dressing-down - he's just a clock-puncher, leaves his computer at his desk in the evenings, works from home too much (though it's OK when other people do it), etc. He firmly defended himself - he was promised decent work-life balance in the interviewing process (he specifically asked), he was promised that WFH was OK under certain conditions, which are met every time, etc. By now he's royally pissed because people have basically been spying on him at work and running to the grandboss like little children. He figures he'll be fired any day now.
We're taking a few days off to decompress this week, and spent yesterday looking at our budget/tracking spreadsheet. Even if he quits/gets fired this month and never works again, we'll still be contributing to savings every month and it'll push back ER for me 6 months to a year. So it really doesn't matter, and he really doesn't care - the damage to his reputation for submitting crappy work would be worse than any "clock-punching" accusations.
QuoteIt's nice to get paid for quitting, but that's not really the way the world works.
Except it kind of is, though. You might think that you shouldn't get a redundancy payment (given that there is another job available) but they are very common and it is not unreasonable for the OP to expect their company to uphold professional norms. It's not like some huge treat - it's what companies do in this day and age.
I thought severance/redudancy pay was for people who were fired, not people who quit.
QuoteIt's nice to get paid for quitting, but that's not really the way the world works.
Except it kind of is, though. You might think that you shouldn't get a redundancy payment (given that there is another job available) but they are very common and it is not unreasonable for the OP to expect their company to uphold professional norms. It's not like some huge treat - it's what companies do in this day and age.
I thought severance/redudancy pay was for people who were fired, not people who quit.
Being fired and being made redundant are different. If you're fired its because you personally did something so they fire you and hire someone else to do your old job. Being made redundant means that the company decides your job doesn't exist any more. They may offer you something roughly equivalent, but you can argue that it's not the same job and they have basically made you unemployed through no fault of your own. Again, you may believe that redundancy payouts shouldn't exist, but the fact is that a great many companies will then offer you X months salary as a kind of apology. Why? Well, if nothing else, word gets around and it makes them look like nice people who care about their (former) employees.
Now that I think about it, maybe the consistently pleasant demeanor is exactly what they find so irritating ;)
Is your nose brown??
Constructive Dismissal - making the job situation intolerable enough that a person quits. Generally eligible for severance.QuoteIt's nice to get paid for quitting, but that's not really the way the world works.
Except it kind of is, though. You might think that you shouldn't get a redundancy payment (given that there is another job available) but they are very common and it is not unreasonable for the OP to expect their company to uphold professional norms. It's not like some huge treat - it's what companies do in this day and age.
I thought severance/redudancy pay was for people who were fired, not people who quit.
Redundancy (UK) = layoff (US). Your position is eliminated; you aren't losing your job for performance reasons. You're eligible for severance, if it's offered.
Being fired = you lose your job because they didn't like something you did. Not eligible for severance (in the US), usually.
Quitting = you choose to leave; the company owes you no severance because they didn't make the decision.
Is your nose brown??
That was an uncalled for statement.
Bless your heart, it's possible to be perfectly charming, polite, and friendly while not taking shit from anyone.
.
FU money also gives you the ability to be a pleasant worker bee in a hive teeming with discontent.
I project a nice and pleasant demeanor at work, partly because I like to do it and partly because the workday is just that much easier with a positive attitude.
... the secret knowledge that I've got 10 years worth of expenses saved up, am stashing 50% of my takehome pay, and can smilingly walk away from rude behavior every time.
Is your nose brown??
That was an uncalled for statement.
Bless your heart, it's possible to be perfectly charming, polite, and friendly while not taking shit from anyone.
.
I knew a legal admin assistant, very experienced, with the same law firm for thirty years. At some point when she was over sixty, she went in to the partner who made the decisions about staffing, and said, "I'd really like to work 4 days instead of 5. I need the extra day, I don't have the energy I used to." She had a pretty serious hip condition, and she just kept working, never complained about it. She was finding herself still really fatigued after the weekend, and knew she needed to back off work.
"Oh," he says. "Well. That's just not possible. You can't work four days! We need you here, the office is open five days not four, etc." End of discussion.
"Alright," she says. "I thought you might say that, and I understand. And 'm not in a position to work five days anymore. And so I have this for you." And she puts a letter of resignation on his desk, which she had already done. And his eyes go round. He started back-pedalling immediately. Oh, wait, we can work something out, we really need you, yada. So she got her four days. She worked there about 2 more years, then retired.
She had quite a bit of snarky push-back from the 23-year olds doing admin. "Must be nice to work four days," blah blah. They seemed to not grasp that once you've worked somewhere 30 years, you might be valuable enough to work on *your* terms.
I knew a legal admin assistant, very experienced, with the same law firm for thirty years. At some point when she was over sixty, she went in to the partner who made the decisions about staffing, and said, "I'd really like to work 4 days instead of 5. I need the extra day, I don't have the energy I used to." She had a pretty serious hip condition, and she just kept working, never complained about it. She was finding herself still really fatigued after the weekend, and knew she needed to back off work.Yes, I worked less than 40 hours for a bit after I had my kids. At my current company, a year of it - mat leave for 10 weeks, then 25 hrs a week for a few weeks, then 32 hrs a week for the rest of the first year.
"Oh," he says. "Well. That's just not possible. You can't work four days! We need you here, the office is open five days not four, etc." End of discussion.
"Alright," she says. "I thought you might say that, and I understand. And 'm not in a position to work five days anymore. And so I have this for you." And she puts a letter of resignation on his desk, which she had already done. And his eyes go round. He started back-pedalling immediately. Oh, wait, we can work something out, we really need you, yada. So she got her four days. She worked there about 2 more years, then retired.
She had quite a bit of snarky push-back from the 23-year olds doing admin. "Must be nice to work four days," blah blah. They seemed to not grasp that once you've worked somewhere 30 years, you might be valuable enough to work on *your* terms.
Is your nose brown??
[MOD NOTE: Forum Rule #1]
Is your nose brown??
[MOD NOTE: Forum Rule #1]
I want to apologize for my post. I was in a bad mood from work when I posted. That's not an excuse. I violated common decency guidelines.
It won't happen again.
Best to all.
DH is using our FU money now, and I'm glad to have the option myself.
First Issue:
DH has been really unhappy at work, largely due to an irreconcilable difference between what he thought he was hired for, and what executive leadership thought he was hired for. He had a serious argument with his grandboss, where things were said. Things you can't take back. Our FU money meant that he was able to give notice today after we had a "financial summit" over the weekend and saw how easily we could keep going on my salary alone (FU money is a backstop for emergencies). He's been job hunting, but is free to leave before finding something new.
Second Issue:
I get along great with my boss. Just found out he's moving to another division within the company. His position will be back-filled, but with who? Will I get along with the new person? After hearing plenty of "new boss" horror stories, I'm glad to have the option to leave if things get ugly.
Some minor back story for me: My parents got foreclosed on 5 years ago, and I let them move into my house for far below fair market value (about $400-500 below FMV, I just asked them to reimburse me for the mortgage/taxes/insurance). They lived there for 5 years and did not take care of the place. I finally asked them to leave because I wanted to sell it, and they got all pissed off and it's caused a huge rift in the family. Things are not good between me and them still. They got all huffy and moved out within a couple weeks and left the place in total disarray. I don't think they cleaned anything the whole time they were there. So for the past month I've been cleaning it up and fixing things up (up to about $14K so far plus a couple hundred hours between me/wife/her family). Also we are about 7 months pregnant after a long battle with infertility and going through IVF (and saving up for IVF because we ended up spending about $40k all said and done). There have been some other major life stresses that I don't even need to go into now. Suffice to say my life has been shitty and one big ball of stress for several months now.
So I come into work last week and SURPRISE the company you've worked at for 11 years has been sold! And those raises we promised...how about a pay cut instead?
They calculated my pay rate by excluding the bonus I get (about 15% of my total compensation) to get my "base pay", and then basically giving me that. They also don't cover nearly as much of the insurance premiums as my previous employer. The end result is that I previously paid about $1500/yr total for insurance for me and my wife, and now the insurance is switching over at 7 months pregnancy and the my new "family" premiums are going to be over $10k/yr. I expected a slight jump in insurance when we added a kid, but they've totally changed the rules of the game just before the birth, without ever giving me a heads up, and it's going to affect me about $8k/yr.
I told them the offer was bullshit and that I'm confident I can go find an engineering job paying more than that immediately. They want me to start off at the bottom and prove myself, even though I have 11 years experience and played a large part in building the company to the level it was at. I also have plenty of money socked away and could live for a couple years with no job if necessary. So I told them all to stuff it and cleaned out my desk and walked out.
Apparently that got their attention, and after a week of tense back and forth negotiation I now have a new contract. With this new contract I get:
$13k/yr more salary
Large performance based bonus (estimated $10-15k/yr)
performance review/raise halfway between now and the next normal scheduled review
3 weeks paid paternity leave
"unlimited"* vacation
2 employees under me
I've been promised I don't have to do shitty field work anymore, and can just do office work if I want.
Everyone else in the office is stuck and had no real option but to sign their new contract so they can keep getting a paycheck. I was the lone hold out. The change didn't affect anyone else nearly as much as it affected me. It pretty much worked out to equal compensation for everyone, except 2 of us senior guys, and it affected me much more harshly than the other guy. All in all though I think it ended up working out in my favor, and should actually decrease my time to FIRE by a couple years or more.
*unlimited in the sense that it's only limited by my ability to get my job done. Not truly unlimited, but I won't hit a point where they say "no you can't take that day off because you already took 14 days off!". I'm skeptical how it's all going to work out.
Well there was no bonus for me, or anyone at my office, or anyone in the entire region. My review/raise scheduled for March 1 hasn't happened yet either. I've brought it up a few times by this point.
2017 shaped up that I actually made less money than I did in 2016. Even after getting a $13k raise from the initial offer, once you factor in the excessive medical premiums and no bonus I made less. 2018 is looking like it's going to be even worse than 2017 (since I'll be with the new company the full year instead of only 5 months like in 2017).
I should have buffed up my resume and been out of here by this point, but I didn't want to cause too much stress to myself or my household by changing careers at the same time as having our first baby. The baby just screams all night long, so I haven't slept in 5 months and have no time to network or apply to jobs when at home. I also don't have time to do literally anything. The last 5 months have been a living hell at home with no sleep, no hobbies, no intimacy, no nothing but dealing with a crying baby. We have just enough time to cook dinner and clean up, and do laundry, and that all comes at the expense of getting sleep.
The unlimited vacation is a sham, and I'm convinced the company has ulterior motives in offering it. With the new responsibilities there is never any idle time where I can just fuck off and take vacation. There is always urgent stuff that needs attention. But with an unlimited vacation policy they don't have to keep a vacation liability on the books for any of the senior staff, making the books look better. They also won't have to pay out any accrued vacation when someone leaves, because you don't ever accrue any vacation.
I'd like to start abusing the vacation policy and being a lot more lax at work, but the problem is that I have a personal and professional reputation to uphold, and when I do get another job I will likely work with many of the same people in the industry. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by turning in sloppy work or turning in work late, so I feel obligated to deliver quality work still even though I'm fed up with the company. I don't want to just quit and have a black hole on my resume either, even though I have FU money.
That sucks frugalnacho.
You've hit the nail on the head with the unlimited vacation thing - if the workload alone doesn't get everyone to stop taking vacation, a culture will develop to the same end anyway. You either call bullshit and take time off anyway or leave.
Best of luck getting out. In my experience, sloppy is the big thing to avoid - you're just creating more work for yourself later when you rush things. Late almost never has consequences, because at least where I'm at now, any deadlines are fantasies anyway.
This really sucks. But all I can tell you is...it will get better?
I've got two kids, and the first 2 years were a total wash. It was probably a bit better for my husband, but nursing, pumping, lack of sleep, full time job (with #1), 80% job (with #2), didn't matter so much. With kid #1, I was sick for 5 straight months that first winter. Healthy 30 days from Nov 1 to March 30. With kid #2 I worked slightly fewer hours and got sick less - but seriously, the quality and volume of output? Just. Wasn't. There. We basically tread water for 2 years with each. And then, with both kids, right around age 4 you start coming out of the fog. Now that the little 1 is 6? I feel almost completely human.
So, my advice would be to keep your head down until you are out of the fob. Don't worry too much about switching jobs. Take advantage of flexibility and unlimited PTO. The hardest thing for me for both kids was getting into the habit of walking out the door at 3:30 pm, when I was used to leaving at 5:30 or 6 pm. It feels weird. But you get used to it. The key thing to remember is that when you are there, you are working. You are doing good work. In order for you to do your BEST work you really do need to chill out a bit. Take vacation. Shorter work days. More sleep (as much as possible, anyway, my kids were not good sleepers.) You will NOT be judged poorly for this if you are getting a lot of your work done.
The key to refreshing yourself with a vacation is to just take it. "There's never any time to fuck off." You aren't fucking off. You are taking time off. It might be
- A Friday and a Monday four-day weekend
- A week in Hawaii
- A trip to visit family
The thing is to schedule it. I mean, schedule it, put it on the calendar, and let everyone know it's happening. You don't even need to buy plane tickets, just tell people you did. Don't think that "eh, some day I'm going to just take a Friday off." That, man, never happens.
Finally, for what it's worth, I started interviewing when my kids were 2. Changed jobs when kid #1 was 2.5, interviewed when kid #2 was 2 (ended up not changing at that point). I had a long stretch of no raises, crappy pay, and ended up just cutting my hours way way back because I'm salaried. And yes, that meant leaving early some days. Coming in late on other days.
There is a light at the end of the tunnel - always keep your finger on the local job market pulse, because you never know.
I deal with the EPA and the state level equivalents, so most of my deadlines are hard deadlines.
I know I'm not fucking off, but there always seems to be something going on that makes it so I shouldn't be taking vacation. Big job going on, or having just gone on, or just coming up. Or a back log of reports that needs to be done. Right now we've got like 5 big clients that all need their reports asap. So "fucking off" this week is not ideal...but it's always like this! We are always busy! And I don't get over time. And I apparently don't get a bonus. So maybe I should just schedule myself a vacation soon.
Well I just got $6k/yr out of cycle raise today, and a promise that regular review/raises are happening for the entire office (including me) in July.At least they've figured that out...so many are clueless. Congratulations!
It's like they know how to give just enough to keep me on board.
Well I just got $6k/yr out of cycle raise today, and a promise that regular review/raises are happening for the entire office (including me) in July.
It's like they know how to give just enough to keep me on board.
Well I just got $6k/yr out of cycle raise today, and a promise that regular review/raises are happening for the entire office (including me) in July.
It's like they know how to give just enough to keep me on board.
Yeah, I'm having a hard time drumming up any empathy...
Well I just got $6k/yr out of cycle raise today, and a promise that regular review/raises are happening for the entire office (including me) in July.
It's like they know how to give just enough to keep me on board.
Yeah, I'm having a hard time drumming up any empathy...
Once you factor in the excessive medical premiums the new company passes to employees*, and the fact that they fucked everyone on a bonus (which I received 12/12 years I worked here before the acquisition) this new $6k raise on top of the $13k raise I fought for at the start, it pretty much just puts me back to what I was earning before the acquisition. $19k/yr sounds like a lot, but $10k/yr more in medical premiums and a forgone $9k/yr bonus works out to around $19k. They are acting like they are doing me some huge favor by giving me back the salary they cut from me last year.
*My medical deductions went from around $1.5k/yr to almost $12k/yr. This year I've switched to a HDHP that is only costing me $6k, but now I have to pay out of pocket for everything. I was hoping to save money, but with the amount of dr visits for the baby I think my overall medical expenses are going to be the same as the shitty plan last year.
Well I just got $6k/yr out of cycle raise today, and a promise that regular review/raises are happening for the entire office (including me) in July.
It's like they know how to give just enough to keep me on board.
Yeah, I'm having a hard time drumming up any empathy...
Once you factor in the excessive medical premiums the new company passes to employees*, and the fact that they fucked everyone on a bonus (which I received 12/12 years I worked here before the acquisition) this new $6k raise on top of the $13k raise I fought for at the start, it pretty much just puts me back to what I was earning before the acquisition. $19k/yr sounds like a lot, but $10k/yr more in medical premiums and a forgone $9k/yr bonus works out to around $19k. They are acting like they are doing me some huge favor by giving me back the salary they cut from me last year.
*My medical deductions went from around $1.5k/yr to almost $12k/yr. This year I've switched to a HDHP that is only costing me $6k, but now I have to pay out of pocket for everything. I was hoping to save money, but with the amount of dr visits for the baby I think my overall medical expenses are going to be the same as the shitty plan last year.
+1. Brilliant
Personally, I wouldn’t be quiet about this (not saying you are, just that I wouldn’t be). Any time someone called this a raise, I would politely (but firmly) reply that it was restoring some of the (arbitrary) cuts to my remuneration package. Depending on the audience, I might even point out that I am still worse off than before (due to higher cost of the out of pocket expenses on the new healthcare plan, if I’m reading it right).
Words have power, as does the time frame chosen to assess things on, and some of that power is subconscious. When you add that managers usually have the pressure to keep costs down, I would be concerned that the “raise” you got would (subconsciously or consciously) cause the person doing the review to think ‘NykkiC got a raise recently, there are others who should get one before him.’
But that could just be my paranoia.
I'm so very happy.Update:
My wife just used the FU money a couple hours ago. She has been employed at 60% time; 24 hours/week tuesday - thursday (3-8 hour shifts). This schedule started after her return from maternity leave so that she could spend more time with the kids and stay employed. It was the optimal solution for us, everyone was happy and we kept on saving. The kids have a little time away from us with other kids, we get more time than we use to with the kids.
Yesterday she was told thats coming to an end, she needs to go to full time. As she is late 30's with two kids, I think her supervisor expected compliance, I think it came as a surprse when my wife wanted to mull it over. As in all these caes the unspoken alternative was she's out of work, no one ever thinks people will consider that option. Luckily for us, we have a decent stash, she isn't bound by normal conventions of needing to cover rent and can live the life she wants. Still, its pretty scary to be confronted with it even after all this preparation.
In case it needs to be said, she said No to returning to full time work. The unspoken alternative is still not being whispered out loud, it happened so fast that I don't think its sunk in yet. I have no idea yet if they'll try to keep her or let her go, I suspect they feel she's bluffing. She still wants to work at 60%, but shes willing to never work again, I'm also sitting on the precipice of FIRE, we're just saving so we can live a few years overseas as a family at this point.
It just makes me so happy that she can make her choice. If she's out of work, her last day should fall on our anniversary. I think that will gurantee I'm husband of the year which is great; however looking forward I'm pretty much going to be a dissapointment for the rest of our anniversaries though, this is impossible to beat.
This is awesomeI'm so very happy.Update:
My wife just used the FU money a couple hours ago. She has been employed at 60% time; 24 hours/week tuesday - thursday (3-8 hour shifts). This schedule started after her return from maternity leave so that she could spend more time with the kids and stay employed. It was the optimal solution for us, everyone was happy and we kept on saving. The kids have a little time away from us with other kids, we get more time than we use to with the kids.
Yesterday she was told thats coming to an end, she needs to go to full time. As she is late 30's with two kids, I think her supervisor expected compliance, I think it came as a surprse when my wife wanted to mull it over. As in all these caes the unspoken alternative was she's out of work, no one ever thinks people will consider that option. Luckily for us, we have a decent stash, she isn't bound by normal conventions of needing to cover rent and can live the life she wants. Still, its pretty scary to be confronted with it even after all this preparation.
In case it needs to be said, she said No to returning to full time work. The unspoken alternative is still not being whispered out loud, it happened so fast that I don't think its sunk in yet. I have no idea yet if they'll try to keep her or let her go, I suspect they feel she's bluffing. She still wants to work at 60%, but shes willing to never work again, I'm also sitting on the precipice of FIRE, we're just saving so we can live a few years overseas as a family at this point.
It just makes me so happy that she can make her choice. If she's out of work, her last day should fall on our anniversary. I think that will gurantee I'm husband of the year which is great; however looking forward I'm pretty much going to be a dissapointment for the rest of our anniversaries though, this is impossible to beat.
So she delayed the actual end date to make sure she got the annual bonus. Then a little more to get some health benefits; we get drug plans so we stocked up on drugs. The delay was interesting in that it added 2 days of work to her schedule (on top of the regular days) but probably gained us $3500-4000 in benefits and bonus (still waiting to see all the numbers).
We pulled out a calendar when we worked out the various end dates at home. We added in public holidays, never quit the day before a holiday (Easter)! Then looked at health benefits, new fiscal calendar, fresh benefits! Then looked at existing holidays to see if we could stretch the schedule out and mimic her current schedule, that added a week of potential work. It was a bit of work but well worth the planning, I highly recommend it to anyone leaving a job.
Although it would have been fun to walk out; the slow leave is going to be very lucrative and extremely satisfying. We still get what we want, plus a little extra. We get to stick to our principles and she doesn't need to sacrifice her life for work, I call that a win. On my end, the extra speeds up my FIRE date, which is looking closer than ever, her departure has really got me thinking.
I picked May 1st for 3 reasons:#4 subsidized health insurance for the rest of the month
#1) Most important, it's during my wife's last week of work, grading final exams and papers. It will make her life easier if I do more chores that week.
#2) May 1st is a Tuesday. The preceding Friday and Monday are paid holidays. Why turn down free money?
#3) May 1st is International Worker's Day. "Workers of the World, Unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!" I'm losing my chains on that day, for sure!
I picked May 1st for 3 reasons:#4 subsidized health insurance for the rest of the month
#1) Most important, it's during my wife's last week of work, grading final exams and papers. It will make her life easier if I do more chores that week.
#2) May 1st is a Tuesday. The preceding Friday and Monday are paid holidays. Why turn down free money?
#3) May 1st is International Worker's Day. "Workers of the World, Unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!" I'm losing my chains on that day, for sure!
I picked May 1st for 3 reasons:#4 subsidized health insurance for the rest of the month
#1) Most important, it's during my wife's last week of work, grading final exams and papers. It will make her life easier if I do more chores that week.
#2) May 1st is a Tuesday. The preceding Friday and Monday are paid holidays. Why turn down free money?
#3) May 1st is International Worker's Day. "Workers of the World, Unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!" I'm losing my chains on that day, for sure!
1000 to 1 the cheap bastards I work for drop my insurance on the 1st...
Working for someone who is toxic is extremely detrimental, not only to your psych, but also to your health.
I was an ESL teacher and speak Spanish, also, which meant I did a lot of interpreting in meetings, even when it was not my student being discussed. I had been moved around to different schools in the system as they moved our minority population around to "balance" the schools racially (not a good move in this system as the schools in the poorer areas were often better performing than the mostly "white" schools.
Despite the fact that I have decades of experience teaching English to immigrant students successfully, this principal decided I did not know how to teach the children and was forbidden to teach them reading and instead to teach them vocabulary. The problem is that children learn most of their vocabulary through reading at a certain point as everyday language with children is pretty limited (this is why we read to our children from the time they are babies, to expand their vocabulary and comprehension).
Now, I have a brain injury and could only work three days a week, which really was a huge push for me since I could not function at home, but could not leave financially (did not have FU money as I had used my savings during time off for cancer treatment).
To make a long story short, my principal wrote me up on an observation that was full of lies, which I proved to her during a meeting with others present (including my union rep). I was told I was not allowed to send my own books home with the students, nor was I to help them learn to read or write (this is what ELL teachers do). Eventually the stress became so great that I began having seizures on my way home from work one Friday and am now unable to work as this has further injured my brain.
My FU in this is that, since then, the school has gone through many other ESL teachers who have left because the stress was "way too high" and now, I'm sure she is recognizing (although not admitting) that I did know what I was doing.
I have no doubt that if my doctors had not told me I could no longer work, my children would not have a mother now. The sad part is that I loved teaching.
I finally have something to share in this thread too! :) My s/o and I would like to have a family in the future, but for several reasons that's going to be quite difficult. First of all because of health issues, secondly because he's away from home a lot: he has his own business and a side job. We calculated this week that if we were to have a child (which will not happen any time soon, but hopefully a few years from now) we could afford for him to quit his job and become a SAHP! I would work my office job during the day, he would continue his business in the evenings/weekends.What a lovely post, Imma.
In our calculations, we used our current spending + expected costs for the child (not much, health care is free). We've used my current income, even though I expect to get a few raises before then. We have calculated 0 from his business (unlikely) and 0 in tax credits and benefits (extremely unlikely) and still we'd be able to make ends meet. In this scenario our savings rate would be fairly low for about 4 years, but we would still be able to save a bit and don't expect to have to use our savings, and this is the worst case scenario. It would make us more dependent on my job, but I've got a stable job and there's a social security safety net in case I get ill + he could always get back to work in case it was really necessary.
Of course there's still the health side of it all, but on a financial/practical level this solves a lot of problems. He's always wanted to be a hands-on father and while I'd love to be a very hands-on mother, the reality is that I probably wouldn't be able to cope with all the housework and a young child. This way we both use our full potential: my earning potential is much higher than his and he will be a much better SAHP. He still has his business, so he's not 100% dependent on my income and can still pursue his passion. He wants to go back to work parttime when our kid is in school.
Even though this isn't happening now, we're both really excited about this :) this is the reward for our frugal life. We're on a relatively low income, but our bills are so low that we could live, as a family, on one parttime income. Over the next few years, we'll save some more and hopefully get a higher income and it would only be easier. It would delay FI by a few years, but I've always wanted a family most of all.
... I only wanted to work in the evenings so I could snowboard during the day.
He told me my expectations were ridiculous.
... I only wanted to work in the evenings so I could snowboard during the day.
He told me my expectations were ridiculous.
Even though I've been working toward a similar goal (at my advanced age of 50), I STILL think this when I hear it from the younger generations. Of course, I've only met two People IRL (that I know of) who have their financial shit together and who could pull it off if they wanted to. Everyone else seems to just think they should be handed everything on a silver platter instead of working hard for it.
I won't be so judgemental in the future though when I hear the dreams though. When I hear it, I'll say "that's great! How are you setting yourself up financially to achieve it?"
What I used to refer to as a "beach bum", I'm slowly realizing should be called "someone who knows when they have enough" .
Anyway, good story @tedbendixson. Thanks for sharing!
We take park laps and discuss early retirement strategies on the chairlift.Being an avid snowboarder is a case where I could understand the old live-now-save-later mentality, but if you manage to do both that qualifies as epic.
If anything, my snowboarding friends are the ones most concerned with getting to FI. We've always known what we want. We opted out of the corporate world and dove right into it after school. It's just that in our 20s, many of us didn't have the financial education to actually achieve it. Now that some of us are waking up to it, our natural inclination is to go all-in. It's what we're used to.
Hmm... mild FU Money story?That's great! Congratulations!
My partner started up a side gig a couple of months ago, which has been going really well. Yesterday he asked for reduced hours at his day job, since he's getting buried alive in work between the two things. They said no. So he quit. And it won't harm us one penny financially.
Hmm... mild FU Money story?It counts. Good for you, plural!
My partner started up a side gig a couple of months ago, which has been going really well. Yesterday he asked for reduced hours at his day job, since he's getting buried alive in work between the two things. They said no. So he quit. And it won't harm us one penny financially.
Hmm... mild FU Money story?Not mild at all, but a full working through of the FU money principle. Congrats to your partner, and to you for having an awesome mustachian partner.
My partner started up a side gig a couple of months ago, which has been going really well. Yesterday he asked for reduced hours at his day job, since he's getting buried alive in work between the two things. They said no. So he quit. And it won't harm us one penny financially.
Hmm... mild FU Money story?It counts. Good for you, plural!
My partner started up a side gig a couple of months ago, which has been going really well. Yesterday he asked for reduced hours at his day job, since he's getting buried alive in work between the two things. They said no. So he quit. And it won't harm us one penny financially.
I remember back when I was 26. I had something like $5K in savings, and I wanted to spend more of my days snowboarding (basically work in the evenings and snowboard from 9-5).
I had a string of jobs in restaurants for years, most requiring mixed shifts. In my spare time, I was slowly building up a freelance writing clientele, but I didn't really feel comfortable enough to just go without a stable job for any extended period of time. That is, until a certain fateful job interview at the Bubba Gump Shrimp House (or whatever the hell it is) in Breckenridge Colorado.
The interviewer asked me which hours I would like to work. I told him I only wanted to work in the evenings so I could snowboard during the day.
He got really angry about it and treated me like some punk kid (probably with reason since there were a lot of punk kids trying to do the same). He told me my expectations were ridiculous.
At that point, I figured the interview was over. So I just casually said, "Okay, well this freelance writing thing I've been doing seems to be taking off, so I think I'll just keep doing that." I will never forget the puzzled look on that poor soul's face. Dude was speechless.
I ended up spending that winter doing exactly what I had set out to do. I went snowboarding nearly every day, and I worked on freelance writing projects at night. Most days, I only worked 2-3 hours. I ended up doing that for two more years, and I even took trips down to New Zealand in the summer to keep the good times rolling when we didn't have snow up north.
I eventually moved into higher paying jobs in software, but I try to remind myself of that experience every now and again. Back then, I was in a far weaker financial position than I'm in right now, but I had this sort of ballsy confidence that I could build a writing business out of a crowded snowboarding frat house, spending as little as a few hours a day on it.
My cushion is much bigger now, but none of that really matters because I have something no employer can take from me - the ability to spin up a business out of almost nothing. I've done it with iOS apps and recently software development tutoring. If I were ever to lose my high-paying work, I could easily start growing those businesses without skipping a beat. There's really nothing to fear at all.
So while I certainly love the warm and secure feeling that FU money gives me, I kind of think FU confidence is better. Sometimes I need to do a better job of channeling my younger self. I kind of had it together back then, albeit in a strange and offbeat lazy snowboarder kind of way.
Y'all can be singular too, in certain areas, so they say "all y'all."Hmm... mild FU Money story?It counts. Good for you, plural!
My partner started up a side gig a couple of months ago, which has been going really well. Yesterday he asked for reduced hours at his day job, since he's getting buried alive in work between the two things. They said no. So he quit. And it won't harm us one penny financially.
Wouldn't that be y'all?
Also great for y'all!
Y'all can be singular too, in certain areas, so they say "all y'all."Hmm... mild FU Money story?It counts. Good for you, plural!
My partner started up a side gig a couple of months ago, which has been going really well. Yesterday he asked for reduced hours at his day job, since he's getting buried alive in work between the two things. They said no. So he quit. And it won't harm us one penny financially.
Wouldn't that be y'all?
Also great for y'all!
I've definitely heard it refer to a single person, and I've heard many people use it that way.Y'all can be singular too, in certain areas, so they say "all y'all."Hmm... mild FU Money story?It counts. Good for you, plural!
My partner started up a side gig a couple of months ago, which has been going really well. Yesterday he asked for reduced hours at his day job, since he's getting buried alive in work between the two things. They said no. So he quit. And it won't harm us one penny financially.
Wouldn't that be y'all?
Also great for y'all!
Yall is plural; all yall is for emphasis, as in, I caint believe all yall went along with Bob on that one. John and Joe at least shoulda known better.
FTFY. These may or may not be actual relatives.Y'all can be singular too, in certain areas, so they say "all y'all."Hmm... mild FU Money story?It counts. Good for you, plural!
My partner started up a side gig a couple of months ago, which has been going really well. Yesterday he asked for reduced hours at his day job, since he's getting buried alive in work between the two things. They said no. So he quit. And it won't harm us one penny financially.
Wouldn't that be y'all?
Also great for y'all!
Y’all is plural; “all y’all” is for emphasis, as in, “I caint believe all y’all went along with Billy Bob on that one. John Boy and Joe Junior at least shoulda known better.”
+1 for the singular y'all. It's much rarer than the plural y'all, but it does happen.
ETA: in this Tim Hawkins stand up, Tim uses the singular y'all to poke fun at the Durant, OK Shakespeare Festival. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk0xOkgGbNY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk0xOkgGbNY)
I've definitely heard it refer to a single person, and I've heard many people use it that way.Y'all can be singular too, in certain areas, so they say "all y'all."Hmm... mild FU Money story?It counts. Good for you, plural!
My partner started up a side gig a couple of months ago, which has been going really well. Yesterday he asked for reduced hours at his day job, since he's getting buried alive in work between the two things. They said no. So he quit. And it won't harm us one penny financially.
Wouldn't that be y'all?
Also great for y'all!
Y’all is plural; “all y’all” is for emphasis, as in, “I caint believe all y’all went along with Bob on that one. John and Joe at least shoulda known better.”
Oh, some comedy routines have it presented as singular, but it’s not an accurate reflection of the dialect.*
@Dicey, I know you didn’t mean to be offensive, but I chose the names I did in order to avoid stereotypes in discussing one of the dialects of American English. [I debated for quite a while at the phonetic spellings, but eventually used them because I was discussing dialect.]
I don’t mean to jump on you, because I know it’s hard to think of a group of largely Caucasian people as having any sort of minority status, but I’d argue that we aren’t doing southerners, Appalachians, or the rest of the country any favors when we** present the first two groups as universally backward, inbred, etc, but then turn around and expect them to avoid/overcome cultural racism, sexism, or whatever.
* One source, admittedly a bit dated but accessible online, that discusses the singular y’all controversy from a linguist’s point of view: https://www.jstor.org/stable/454993?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents (https://www.jstor.org/stable/454993?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents)
**I’m not saying that’s what you were doing, just that the sort of jokes you presented do tend to feed into that sort of thing. Again, I don’t mean to jump on you, just draw it to all of our attention. It’s not something most non- southern or Appalachian Americans have thought about, or have even been asked to think about, but I think it’s one small part of the current divisions in our country.
Y'all is gender neutral, so it's finding use in northern social justice circles as well.
So when I hear it in what I call "singular", it's both singular and plural. Plural because it water downs the rest of the sentence, but directed to a single person.I've definitely heard it refer to a single person, and I've heard many people use it that way.Y'all can be singular too, in certain areas, so they say "all y'all."Hmm... mild FU Money story?It counts. Good for you, plural!
My partner started up a side gig a couple of months ago, which has been going really well. Yesterday he asked for reduced hours at his day job, since he's getting buried alive in work between the two things. They said no. So he quit. And it won't harm us one penny financially.
Wouldn't that be y'all?
Also great for y'all!
Y’all is plural; “all y’all” is for emphasis, as in, “I caint believe all y’all went along with Bob on that one. John and Joe at least shoulda known better.”
Sorry for the double post, but I missed this somehow and didn’t want to ignore you. Are you sure the uses you heard weren’t the polite distinction between addressee and referent that the article above discusses? As in I might say to someone I run into at the grocery story, “how are y’all doing these days?” But the question (and usually the answer) will be about how the whole family is doing rather than the one person at the store. So it seems like the word is grammatically singular because only one representative of the family is standing there in front of me when I say it, but I did mean the group. That is very common in my experience as well as in studies like tat one.
It is a controversy, but not all that much of one in linguistics. It’s more debated outside academic circles because it’s been presented as singular, I would argue erroneously, so much in popular culture.
So when I hear it in what I call "singular", it's both singular and plural. Plural because it water downs the rest of the sentence, but directed to a single person.I've definitely heard it refer to a single person, and I've heard many people use it that way.Y'all can be singular too, in certain areas, so they say "all y'all."Hmm... mild FU Money story?It counts. Good for you, plural!
My partner started up a side gig a couple of months ago, which has been going really well. Yesterday he asked for reduced hours at his day job, since he's getting buried alive in work between the two things. They said no. So he quit. And it won't harm us one penny financially.
Wouldn't that be y'all?
Also great for y'all!
Y’all is plural; “all y’all” is for emphasis, as in, “I caint believe all y’all went along with Bob on that one. John and Joe at least shoulda known better.”
Sorry for the double post, but I missed this somehow and didn’t want to ignore you. Are you sure the uses you heard weren’t the polite distinction between addressee and referent that the article above discusses? As in I might say to someone I run into at the grocery story, “how are y’all doing these days?” But the question (and usually the answer) will be about how the whole family is doing rather than the one person at the store. So it seems like the word is grammatically singular because only one representative of the family is standing there in front of me when I say it, but I did mean the group. That is very common in my experience as well as in studies like tat one.
It is a controversy, but not all that much of one in linguistics. It’s more debated outside academic circles because it’s been presented as singular, I would argue erroneously, so much in popular culture.
For example: "Yall need to watch when you back out" to the driver that just backed into them. It sounds less aggressive than saying "you." It makes it sound like it wasn't just that driver's fault, like there's a group at fault.
"Yall need to take out the trash," when I'm the only other one in the room. Technically, I could have gotten her husband to do it when he got back, but she knew I would do it for her, and this was her way of getting me to do it.
I guess both cases fit into the article, since the reason it works is because it's plural.
The driver example is spreading out blame too, it's just ambiguous to who else it is getting spread to. The group of drivers who back into people, or something like that. I guess it's a reminder that other people do it too.*snip*
So when I hear it in what I call "singular", it's both singular and plural. Plural because it water downs the rest of the sentence, but directed to a single person.
For example: "Yall need to watch when you back out" to the driver that just backed into them. It sounds less aggressive than saying "you." It makes it sound like it wasn't just that driver's fault, like there's a group at fault.
"Yall need to take out the trash," when I'm the only other one in the room. Technically, I could have gotten her husband to do it when he got back, but she knew I would do it for her, and this was her way of getting me to do it.
I guess both cases fit into the article, since the reason it works is because it's plural.
Thats very interesting. Id say yes, your trash example falls into the kind of thing Im talking about, sort of spreading out responsibility. With the backing into someone, Ive having trouble seeing how it could work that way if there was only one person in the car. Both driver and car need to be more careful? Surely not. Easier to see it working that way if there was a passenger, I suppose. Then it could have been sort of the passengers fault if he or she was distracting the driver, and the polite yall avoids assigning blame to either person directly. But a solo driver, not so much. If that was the case, it sounds a lot closer to a singular yall than anything else Ive seen.
Y’all is plural; “all y’all” is for emphasis, as in, “I caint believe all y’all went along with Bob on that one. John and Joe at least shoulda known better.”
Y’all is plural; “all y’all” is for emphasis, as in, “I caint believe all y’all went along with Billy Bob on that one. John Boy and Joe Junior at least shoulda known better.”FTFY. These may or may not be actual relatives.
@Dicey, I know you didn’t mean to be offensive, but I chose the names I did in order to avoid stereotypes in discussing one of the dialects of American English. [I debated for quite a while at the phonetic spellings, but eventually used them because I was discussing dialect.]
I don’t mean to jump on you, because I know it’s hard to think of a group of largely Caucasian people as having any sort of minority status, but I’d argue that we aren’t doing southerners, Appalachians, or the rest of the country any favors when we** present the first two groups as universally backward, inbred, etc, but then turn around and expect them to avoid/overcome cultural racism, sexism, or whatever
**I’m not sayilng that’s what you were doing, just that the sort of jokes you presented do tend to feed into that sort of thing. Again, I don’t mean to jump on you, just draw it to all of our attention. It’s not something most non- southern or Appalachian Americans have thought about, or have even been asked to think about, but I think it’s one small part of the current divisions in our country.
The driver example is spreading out blame too, it's just ambiguous to who else it is getting spread to. The group of drivers who back into people, or something like that. I guess it's a reminder that other people do it too.*snip*
So when I hear it in what I call "singular", it's both singular and plural. Plural because it water downs the rest of the sentence, but directed to a single person.
For example: "Yall need to watch when you back out" to the driver that just backed into them. It sounds less aggressive than saying "you." It makes it sound like it wasn't just that driver's fault, like there's a group at fault.
"Yall need to take out the trash," when I'm the only other one in the room. Technically, I could have gotten her husband to do it when he got back, but she knew I would do it for her, and this was her way of getting me to do it.
I guess both cases fit into the article, since the reason it works is because it's plural.
That’s very interesting. I’d say yes, your trash example falls into the kind of thing I’m talking about, sort of spreading out responsibility. With the backing into someone, I’ve having trouble seeing how it could work that way if there was only one person in the car. Both driver and car need to be more careful? Surely not. Easier to see it working that way if there was a passenger, I suppose. Then it could have been sort of the passenger’s fault if he or she was distracting the driver, and the polite y’all avoids assigning blame to either person directly. But a solo driver, not so much. If that was the case, it sounds a lot closer to a singular y’all than anything else I’ve seen.
I might be mistaken, but I thought "yuins" or "you-uns" was a actually more of an Appalachian thing, as opposed to the mostly Southern "y'all"?The driver example is spreading out blame too, it's just ambiguous to who else it is getting spread to. The group of drivers who back into people, or something like that. I guess it's a reminder that other people do it too.*snip*
So when I hear it in what I call "singular", it's both singular and plural. Plural because it water downs the rest of the sentence, but directed to a single person.
For example: "Yall need to watch when you back out" to the driver that just backed into them. It sounds less aggressive than saying "you." It makes it sound like it wasn't just that driver's fault, like there's a group at fault.
"Yall need to take out the trash," when I'm the only other one in the room. Technically, I could have gotten her husband to do it when he got back, but she knew I would do it for her, and this was her way of getting me to do it.
I guess both cases fit into the article, since the reason it works is because it's plural.
That’s very interesting. I’d say yes, your trash example falls into the kind of thing I’m talking about, sort of spreading out responsibility. With the backing into someone, I’ve having trouble seeing how it could work that way if there was only one person in the car. Both driver and car need to be more careful? Surely not. Easier to see it working that way if there was a passenger, I suppose. Then it could have been sort of the passenger’s fault if he or she was distracting the driver, and the polite y’all avoids assigning blame to either person directly. But a solo driver, not so much. If that was the case, it sounds a lot closer to a singular y’all than anything else I’ve seen.
Thanks @Rural and @MrMoogle -- This is is a super interesting discussion. I'm a lifetime northerner who moved to the southern appalachians just a few years ago. I have really been enjoying hearing and learning the dialects here. (Dialects plural -- there are at least two very distinct ones, which I have had explained to me in various ways.)
I think I've also heard y'all used singularly, but I can't remember the exact context. Now thanks to this discussion I will be focused on it. I love the word y'all and use it often, but I usually pronounce it "you all" because I feel like I sound stupid saying it in one syllable, with my northern accent.
There is another plural you that I hear sometimes in this area as a substitute for y'all -- it sounds like "yewns" or "yuns." Two of my coworkers use that word, and they say they just grew up with it. They are both from rural areas, small towns, maybe an hour apart. I am guessing it is a "rural southern" thing?
I might be mistaken, but I thought "yuins" or "you-uns" was a actually more of an Appalachian thing, as opposed to the mostly Southern "y'all"?
Can we please return the subject to Epic FU Stories!!Sure. Do you have any?
Can we please return the subject to Epic FU Stories!!Sure. Do you have any?
Can we please return the subject to Epic FU Stories!!Sure. Do you have any?
Un-Epic to set a really low bar to get the thread on track.
Last day, greeting, handshaking, all the way around, smiles.
Semi-Epic (for me), I went out to lunch and had my first work lunch beer ever.
Then, on my drive home listened to Soup Dragons "I'm Free (12" Extended Mix / Remastered)"
There, low bar set y'all.
Can we please return the subject to Epic FU Stories!!Sure. Do you have any?
I remember it well because it was epic. That was a you plural plea for new material. I'm just doing my tiny part to keep one of my favorite threads alive. Got any new stories? <Snirt>Can we please return the subject to Epic FU Stories!!Sure. Do you have any?
I sure do @Dicey Heres the link from my original posting [where I was the one derailing the thread ;-) ]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/epic-fu-money-stories/msg1172508/#msg1172508
Okay, this is the story of my parents. As a background, my father was a factory worker and my mother was a house wife. They were very frugal as they grew up in relative poverty during the crises years and were teenagers during World War II years in the Netherlands. At that time, I am talking mid 1950s, my dad got paid weekly in cash. The factory owner would hand out envelopes with money at the end of the week.
On one Friday afternoon, dad went to the office to get his money. His boss said to him 'Here is your wage for the week, but I don't think you deserve it'. Dad responded by saying 'If you don't think that I worked hard enough to earn my money, I don't want it'. He wished the boss a good weekend and left the office without the cash. The boss' wife then went to see my mother and tried her to give my dad's wages for the week. My mother refused to take the money by saying that if her husband did not want to take his wages home for whatever reason, there was no possible way that she could accept it.
The continuous refusal caused great panic with the boss and his wife. Whatever they said, mum and dad refused to accept the money, until the boss finally admitted that my father had worked hard that week and had deservedly earned his wage. Boss had miscalculated and thought they were living paycheck to paycheck, whilst my parents always had money in the bank and did not need the cash. They rocked !!
Okay, this is the story of my parents. As a background, my father was a factory worker and my mother was a house wife. They were very frugal as they grew up in relative poverty during the crises years and were teenagers during World War II years in the Netherlands. At that time, I am talking mid 1950s, my dad got paid weekly in cash. The factory owner would hand out envelopes with money at the end of the week.
On one Friday afternoon, dad went to the office to get his money. His boss said to him 'Here is your wage for the week, but I don't think you deserve it'. Dad responded by saying 'If you don't think that I worked hard enough to earn my money, I don't want it'. He wished the boss a good weekend and left the office without the cash. The boss' wife then went to see my mother and tried her to give my dad's wages for the week. My mother refused to take the money by saying that if her husband did not want to take his wages home for whatever reason, there was no possible way that she could accept it.
The continuous refusal caused great panic with the boss and his wife. Whatever they said, mum and dad refused to accept the money, until the boss finally admitted that my father had worked hard that week and had deservedly earned his wage. Boss had miscalculated and thought they were living paycheck to paycheck, whilst my parents always had money in the bank and did not need the cash. They rocked !!
Excellent story!
It never ceases to amaze me the difference between how a not insignificant percent of supervisors/bosses/employers will treat someone when they think that person is powerless to leave and how they behave when they realise that the employee doesn’t have to put up with them.
Can we please return the subject to Epic FU Stories!!
Okay, this is the story of my parents. As a background, my father was a factory worker and my mother was a house wife. They were very frugal as they grew up in relative poverty during the crises years and were teenagers during World War II years in the Netherlands. At that time, I am talking mid 1950s, my dad got paid weekly in cash. The factory owner would hand out envelopes with money at the end of the week.
On one Friday afternoon, dad went to the office to get his money. His boss said to him 'Here is your wage for the week, but I don't think you deserve it'. Dad responded by saying 'If you don't think that I worked hard enough to earn my money, I don't want it'. He wished the boss a good weekend and left the office without the cash. The boss' wife then went to see my mother and tried her to give my dad's wages for the week. My mother refused to take the money by saying that if her husband did not want to take his wages home for whatever reason, there was no possible way that she could accept it.
The continuous refusal caused great panic with the boss and his wife. Whatever they said, mum and dad refused to accept the money, until the boss finally admitted that my father had worked hard that week and had deservedly earned his wage. Boss had miscalculated and thought they were living paycheck to paycheck, whilst my parents always had money in the bank and did not need the cash. They rocked !!
I don't recall hearing "F**k yall" although I'm sure it's been said. It's usually just "bless your heart" around here.Can we please return the subject to Epic FU Stories!!
Maybe this thread should be retitled "Epic FY money stories". F y'all!
Disclaimer: I am not southern and don't expect to know all of the nuances of "y'all". But they do all seem to start with the letter Y.
I remember it well because it was epic. That was a you plural plea for new material. I'm just doing my tiny part to keep one of my favorite threads alive. Got any new stories? <Snirt>
I'm <snirting> because I believe you've been an exemplary mustachian and stayed retired. Anyone else?
The boss was quite pissed, but I had FU money and did not give a damn!
I don't recall hearing "F**k yall" although I'm sure it's been said. It's usually just "bless your heart" around here.Can we please return the subject to Epic FU Stories!!
Maybe this thread should be retitled "Epic FY money stories". F y'all!
Disclaimer: I am not southern and don't expect to know all of the nuances of "y'all". But they do all seem to start with the letter Y.
I don't recall hearing "F**k yall" although I'm sure it's been said. It's usually just "bless your heart" around here.Can we please return the subject to Epic FU Stories!!
Maybe this thread should be retitled "Epic FY money stories". F y'all!
Disclaimer: I am not southern and don't expect to know all of the nuances of "y'all". But they do all seem to start with the letter Y.
I've said it. :)
On topic: I guess one would have to be mad at the whole company to go for a true F y'all.
I don't recall hearing "F**k yall" although I'm sure it's been said. It's usually just "bless your heart" around here.
I don't recall hearing "F**k yall" although I'm sure it's been said. It's usually just "bless your heart" around here.Can we please return the subject to Epic FU Stories!!
Maybe this thread should be retitled "Epic FY money stories". F y'all!
Disclaimer: I am not southern and don't expect to know all of the nuances of "y'all". But they do all seem to start with the letter Y.
I've said it. :)
On topic: I guess one would have to be mad at the whole company to go for a true F y'all.
No, that would be a F all y'all. It's subtle, but there is a difference. Also, intonation is key.
^This sound like a good opportunity for yes yes no yesThat's great, but seems like too much effort. How about not replying to the invite at all and, of course, remembering to never attend unpaid meetings. Not necessarily to decline them, just ignore.
"Thank you for reaching out." (yes)
"It is true that I specialize in fanciness." (yes)
"In the case of this particular opportunity, I must decline." (no)
"Good luck, and I'd be happy to hear how it went in the Fall." (yes)
You don't even need to cite why you are declining ". . . .because I will not attend any meeting this summer" and/or " . . . because I do not care about the particular fanciness of baskets." In fact, not giving a reason is crucial for the success of yes yes no yes.
And with your timely reminder, I am also going to start remembering to decline meetings when I am not being paid as well . . . there has been way too many of these already, it it is only June!
^This sound like a good opportunity for yes yes no yes
"Thank you for reaching out." (yes)
"It is true that I specialize in fanciness." (yes)
"In the case of this particular opportunity, I must decline." (no)
"Good luck, and I'd be happy to hear how it went in the Fall." (yes)
You don't even need to cite why you are declining ". . . .because I will not attend any meeting this summer" and/or " . . . because I do not care about the particular fanciness of baskets." In fact, not giving a reason is crucial for the success of yes yes no yes.
And with your timely reminder, I am also going to start remembering to decline meetings when I am not being paid as well . . . there has been way too many of these already, it it is only June!
My salary is revenue-based. Company asked me to take on a contract. I agreed and billed client at my regular rate. Company then went behind my back and “adjusted” the bill downwards by 50%, and also “adjusted” my revenue numbers downwards by a proportionate amount.
So I sent an email to the CEO. And then simply stopped working on the contract. And then notified the client as to why I was no longer doing any work on his contract. And then gave him the emails of all the key decision makers in this fiasco. The company is probably just going to ignore my complaint. Luckily, I don’t care if I lose my job, and I have several other projects on my plate to keep me busy while I’m “on strike” on this contract.
My salary is revenue-based. Company asked me to take on a contract. I agreed and billed client at my regular rate. Company then went behind my back and “adjusted” the bill downwards by 50%, and also “adjusted” my revenue numbers downwards by a proportionate amount.
So I sent an email to the CEO. And then simply stopped working on the contract. And then notified the client as to why I was no longer doing any work on his contract. And then gave him the emails of all the key decision makers in this fiasco. The company is probably just going to ignore my complaint. Luckily, I don’t care if I lose my job, and I have several other projects on my plate to keep me busy while I’m “on strike” on this contract.
My salary is revenue-based. Company asked me to take on a contract. I agreed and billed client at my regular rate. Company then went behind my back and “adjusted” the bill downwards by 50%, and also “adjusted” my revenue numbers downwards by a proportionate amount.
So I sent an email to the CEO. And then simply stopped working on the contract. And then notified the client as to why I was no longer doing any work on his contract. And then gave him the emails of all the key decision makers in this fiasco. The company is probably just going to ignore my complaint. Luckily, I don’t care if I lose my job, and I have several other projects on my plate to keep me busy while I’m “on strike” on this contract.
Would you have any legal recourse? This sounds more like theft than FU money problems.
My salary is revenue-based. Company asked me to take on a contract. I agreed and billed client at my regular rate. Company then went behind my back and “adjusted” the bill downwards by 50%, and also “adjusted” my revenue numbers downwards by a proportionate amount.
So I sent an email to the CEO. And then simply stopped working on the contract. And then notified the client as to why I was no longer doing any work on his contract. And then gave him the emails of all the key decision makers in this fiasco. The company is probably just going to ignore my complaint. Luckily, I don’t care if I lose my job, and I have several other projects on my plate to keep me busy while I’m “on strike” on this contract.
Would you have any legal recourse? This sounds more like theft than FU money problems.
What is this legality thing that you speak of? ;P. I live in China, where laws don’t count for much. And the mental anguish and frustration that I will sustain by fighting is not worth it to me. If we calculate the amount of time I will use to fight this multiplied by my hourly rate, it’s really not worth it. Since the company is only billing 50%, I’ll just do 50% of the work.
I don't recall hearing "F**k yall" although I'm sure it's been said. It's usually just "bless your heart" around here.Can we please return the subject to Epic FU Stories!!
Maybe this thread should be retitled "Epic FY money stories". F y'all!
Disclaimer: I am not southern and don't expect to know all of the nuances of "y'all". But they do all seem to start with the letter Y.
I don't recall hearing "F**k yall" although I'm sure it's been said. It's usually just "bless your heart" around here.Can we please return the subject to Epic FU Stories!!
Maybe this thread should be retitled "Epic FY money stories". F y'all!
Disclaimer: I am not southern and don't expect to know all of the nuances of "y'all". But they do all seem to start with the letter Y.
Both sayings exist, its a generational thing... :)
Bless your heart is probably my favorite saying of all time, especially when the recipient of 'blessing' doesn't understand the phrase. lol.
Yeah, 'bless your heart' has been a hard one for me to figure out since I moved south. It's versatile. It seems like it can mean anything along a spectrum from "You poor thing" (when said after you share bad news), to "You're not the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you?" (when said after someone says something clueless) all the way over to "F#&k you, idiot."
Hoping the thread can get back on topic. It's a bummer to be disappointed after seeing new posts and thinking that a new FU story has been posted.Best revenge is to post one of your own. Don't have one? Please avoid wearing complainypants.
Hoping the thread can get back on topic. It's a bummer to be disappointed after seeing new posts and thinking that a new FU story has been posted.Best revenge is to post one of your own. Don't have one? Please avoid wearing complainypants.
That's no "little one"... in my book. The power FU Money gives one to spend irreplaceable time with loved ones... That's huge!You said it. H-U-G-E!
Both Congratulations on achieving FI, and condolences on your loss.
It's gratifying to know FI enabled you to spend meaningful time with your mom before her passing.
Thanks Mother FB and Dicey.That's no "little one"... in my book. The power FU Money gives one to spend irreplaceable time with loved ones... That's huge!You said it. H-U-G-E!
Both Congratulations on achieving FI, and condolences on your loss.
It's gratifying to know FI enabled you to spend meaningful time with your mom before her passing.
And Threshkin, I am sorry for your loss. My MIL has ALZ, lives with us, and has for five years. She's otherwise healthy, so there is no end in sight.
This thread is making me want to use Bless y'all's hearts instead of FU one day. Too bad I'm not from the south. Oh well, that might make it even better.
This thread is making me want to use Bless y'all's hearts instead of FU one day. Too bad I'm not from the south. Oh well, that might make it even better.I don't have much of an accent, but you can really tell I'm from the south when I say "Well, bless your heart."
So, I got a new job last December because my old job was giving me issues. There was a whole mental breakdown in fact, that was interesting (it's probably somewhere in this thread actually). Anyway, new job. Great, except for the part where they lied about all the culture problems (previously REALLY toxic, now just messed up), put me on the most dysfunctional team, and that they didn't actually do training. And apparently I hate the whole industry, like really think that it shouldn't exist in current form.
I gave them a chance. I really, really did. But things aren't getting better, they're actually getting worse. I don't want to put up with it. There are more jobs for me than people like me, so I don't need to put up with it.
I got a verbal offer from another company, more money (not really a concern honestly), much better industry, get great vibes from the team. I GRILLED them on culture, morale, training, etc. Really grilled them, to the extent that they seemed surprised. Apparently it worked though, cause they like me.
So, now I get to figure out how to give notice when I've been in the job for 6 months. That should be interesting. Not doing anything until I have the formal, written offer and paperwork is official. So, probably next week.
Congrats, @Sibley !!! Great for you!
Here is a little one.
Update: today is my last day! I'll be leaving early. Like, very early. Because I have absolutely nothing to do, and I don't feel like sticking around in this dysfunctional place.
Update: today is my last day! I'll be leaving early. Like, very early. Because I have absolutely nothing to do, and I don't feel like sticking around in this dysfunctional place.
Congratulations, Sibley! Welcome to FIRE!
Update: today is my last day! I'll be leaving early. Like, very early. Because I have absolutely nothing to do, and I don't feel like sticking around in this dysfunctional place.
Congratulations, Sibley! Welcome to FIRE!
Oh, I wish. Not FIREd yet, just left a dysfunctional job. Started new one this week, so far so good. Still working towards FI.
When is an Asshair not an asshair? (Asshair#5) the latest in a 20+ year saga...
Background... I hit my FIRE number back in April 2018. Since then, I've continued to work (one-more-month syndrome, because... hey, it's good money) to pad out my taxable account, and generate down payments for new rental properties for long-term cash flow.
I'm a tech-whore - contracting for technical companies who pay me by-the-hour, the contracting firm is my 'PIMP', and the company I'm helping with their 21st century technical needs is the 'John' (and they screw me whenever they can).
One director @ the firm I'm contracting for has a different project management style from most others here - expressing this as a need to have a 'Squeezable Neck' for each project. Normally, these neck's belong to FTE's, but our current project is entirely staffed by contractors. Naturally, my two co-contractors and I work under this director. Asshair#5 - a co-worker who *thinks* he's my boss, but isn't my boss - has self-elected himself 'Squeezable Neck' for our project.
Two weeks ago, asshair#5 met with me for a one-on-one, and let me know he'd essentially thrown me under the bus with our "client/John". Ironic, really...
Earlier, I'd let this asshair (really more 'ass-stubble') know that 'sometimes at the company we work for, it's politically expedient to have someone formulate an outside-the-box solution to problems, then "throw that person under the bus", give them a "good talking to", "adopt the idea as your own", and "move on". Inevitably, the outside-the-box idea is adopted as the "client/John's". I expressed that of all the people in our team *I* should be the one to use as a 'body under the bus' because I'd reached FI. BUT... somehow I didn't expect to get the under the bus treatment without warning. Just as a courtesy.
Oh yeah... Thrown. Under The Bus. No warning. At first I was upset by this, then just laughed and laughed.
My response, I did two (2) things:
1) Met with my account manager (my *actual* boss), and let him know I would be rolling off the current contract by the end of July. I encouraged account manager to find someone with additional skills that I don't possess (namely Salesforce experience) as my back-fill for this role, and I would be happy to handoff my work to this back-fill person. The Account Manager agreed, congratulated me on FI, and asked if I would give him advice on building his own rental property 'fleet'...
2) Met with Asshair#5, expressed that I understood his dilemma, but that he should have at least told me he was going to throw me under the bus BEFORE doing it. I said there are at least three (3x) squeezable necks on the project, and that if it helps him to do his job better, when he feels he's being squeezed, to use his two free hands to simultaneously squeeze the other two necks. (mine and another co-worker's). I asked him to delegate more of the work he's taken on himself. AND to better communicate what he wants the two of us to work on. But he continues to sit separately, worry, and fret over his laptop, and not tell us anything until our twice weekly team stand-up meetings.
Normally, this would be a frustrating situation, but since FI, I have No More F**k's To Give. (I should get a T-shirt: NMFTG)
All the best! MFB
Normally, this would be a frustrating situation, but since FI, I have No More F**k's To Give. (I should get a T-shirt: NMFTG)
Normally, this would be a frustrating situation, but since FI, I have No More F**k's To Give. (I should get a T-shirt: NMFTG)
I would buy that t-shirt!
I would buy that t-shirt!
Normally, this would be a frustrating situation, but since FI, I have No More F**k's To Give. (I should get a T-shirt: NMFTG)
After reading the original post, I was about to reply and say the same thing! A NMFTG t-shirt does fit in my FIRE budget.
Ooh, Hellboy needs one of these for himself and more for gifts! Paging @UnleashHell... Break out the credit card and order up a supply of these...I would buy that t-shirt!
Normally, this would be a frustrating situation, but since FI, I have No More F**k's To Give. (I should get a T-shirt: NMFTG)
After reading the original post, I was about to reply and say the same thing! A NMFTG t-shirt does fit in my FIRE budget.
Is this close enough? (http://cheezetees.com/there-it-goes-my-last-fuck-t-shirt/)
Ooh, Hellboy needs one of these for himself and more for gifts! Paging @UnleashHell... Break out the credit card and order up a supply of these...I would buy that t-shirt!
Normally, this would be a frustrating situation, but since FI, I have No More F**k's To Give. (I should get a T-shirt: NMFTG)
After reading the original post, I was about to reply and say the same thing! A NMFTG t-shirt does fit in my FIRE budget.
Is this close enough? (http://cheezetees.com/there-it-goes-my-last-fuck-t-shirt/)
Buy it now, secure in the knowledge that day is a-comin' soon, Hellboy.Ooh, Hellboy needs one of these for himself and more for gifts! Paging @UnleashHell... Break out the credit card and order up a supply of these...I would buy that t-shirt!
Normally, this would be a frustrating situation, but since FI, I have No More F**k's To Give. (I should get a T-shirt: NMFTG)
After reading the original post, I was about to reply and say the same thing! A NMFTG t-shirt does fit in my FIRE budget.
Is this close enough? (http://cheezetees.com/there-it-goes-my-last-fuck-t-shirt/)
you are gonna have to wait until my last day at work when the FI mission is complete.
I would though!!
I told the girl and the manager, she go smoke somewhere else or this container is the last one I load.
She did not stop. So I closed my tail lift. And the manager wass like??? What are you doing. I said: I just told you this is the last container I gonna load.
Not really epic but....
Background info: Just this week, the sale of two of my rental properties closed. It was a bulk-deconversion from a condo building into apartments, with some investment REIT company paying a 30-40% premium over market value for all of the units in the building. It finally closed. I received the proceeds from the sale of my two (paid off) units yesterday, and today I wired a pay-off to the mortgage company on my home. After reserving some for estimated tax payments, I wired the rest of the funds to my broker. Now I'm sitting on a 100% paid off home, zero debt whatsoever, and between tax-advantaged-retirement accounts and after-tax accounts, I have about 1.25M invested in low cost index funds.
At work today, there was some hair-on-fire emergency just as I was about to leave for the day (after coming in at 7:00am this morning... and my boss came in at 10:00am, mind you)... I decided I would just leave for the day anyway. :D Life is good. What are they going to do, fire me tomorrow? lol.
Not really epic but....
Background info: Just this week, the sale of two of my rental properties closed. It was a bulk-deconversion from a condo building into apartments, with some investment REIT company paying a 30-40% premium over market value for all of the units in the building. It finally closed. I received the proceeds from the sale of my two (paid off) units yesterday, and today I wired a pay-off to the mortgage company on my home. After reserving some for estimated tax payments, I wired the rest of the funds to my broker. Now I'm sitting on a 100% paid off home, zero debt whatsoever, and between tax-advantaged-retirement accounts and after-tax accounts, I have about 1.25M invested in low cost index funds.
At work today, there was some hair-on-fire emergency just as I was about to leave for the day (after coming in at 7:00am this morning... and my boss came in at 10:00am, mind you)... I decided I would just leave for the day anyway. :D Life is good. What are they going to do, fire me tomorrow? lol.
So, I got a new job last December because my old job was giving me issues. There was a whole mental breakdown in fact, that was interesting (it's probably somewhere in this thread actually). Anyway, new job. Great, except for the part where they lied about all the culture problems (previously REALLY toxic, now just messed up), put me on the most dysfunctional team, and that they didn't actually do training. And apparently I hate the whole industry, like really think that it shouldn't exist in current form.
I gave them a chance. I really, really did. But things aren't getting better, they're actually getting worse. I don't want to put up with it. There are more jobs for me than people like me, so I don't need to put up with it.
I got a verbal offer from another company, more money (not really a concern honestly), much better industry, get great vibes from the team. I GRILLED them on culture, morale, training, etc. Really grilled them, to the extent that they seemed surprised. Apparently it worked though, cause they like me.
So, now I get to figure out how to give notice when I've been in the job for 6 months. That should be interesting. Not doing anything until I have the formal, written offer and paperwork is official. So, probably next week.
My SO had a company wide call at work yesterday where they talked about equity vs. equality, and the CEO was "so passionate" about this issue <eyeroll>. My SO dearly wanted to ask if he was going to forego his $16MM salary this year to make it more equitable...Umm, do your SO and I work at the same place? That is literally exactly what my companies CEO was spouting on about the other day. Either that or its just a trend...
While he could technically retire now, we're going to hold off for a year or two and then he can burn his bridges! I can't wait to copy/paste the email here he sends when he leaves the company!!
My SO had a company wide call at work yesterday where they talked about equity vs. equality, and the CEO was "so passionate" about this issue <eyeroll>. My SO dearly wanted to ask if he was going to forego his $16MM salary this year to make it more equitable...Umm, do your SO and I work at the same place? That is literally exactly what my companies CEO was spouting on about the other day. Either that or its just a trend...
While he could technically retire now, we're going to hold off for a year or two and then he can burn his bridges! I can't wait to copy/paste the email here he sends when he leaves the company!!
My SO had a company wide call at work yesterday where they talked about equity vs. equality, and the CEO was "so passionate" about this issue <eyeroll>. My SO dearly wanted to ask if he was going to forego his $16MM salary this year to make it more equitable...Umm, do your SO and I work at the same place? That is literally exactly what my companies CEO was spouting on about the other day. Either that or its just a trend...
While he could technically retire now, we're going to hold off for a year or two and then he can burn his bridges! I can't wait to copy/paste the email here he sends when he leaves the company!!
Equinor?
OK, I finally found something I definitely have a beef with Nancy over. She doesn't want to impeach Trump.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/08/nancy-pelosi-shrugs-off-trump-impeachment-ahead-of-midterm-elections.html
Wrong thread? Pelosi was over in off-topic
My injury is flaring up because of this chronic understaffing, and I'm not willing to destroy myself for anyone.
This is very small scale but funny none the less. I used to restore classic cars years ago. I kept my best one and sold off the rest. I was doing some shop cleaning and there were a set of very nice seats out of chevelle ss. These seats are easily worth $750. I threw them out on the two-face book in the marketplace for $200. Literally a steal but I just wanted them gone and I felt good by giving someone a deal. After two days of messaging and I agree to hold the seats for the guy. He shows up and offers me $100... In my crabby ass pissed off mood I nonchalantly walk over to my tool box, grabbed a box cutter and slashed the shit out the seats. I then turned and replied that they are now worth $100 and I can help him load them in his truck. He was literally speechless and got in the truck and drove away. What he didn't know is that I have OEM seat skins waiting to go on the seats and I was going to throw them in. I loaded them up and gave them to a buddy tonight for free. No good deed ever goes un punished.
This is very small scale but funny none the less. I used to restore classic cars years ago. I kept my best one and sold off the rest. I was doing some shop cleaning and there were a set of very nice seats out of chevelle ss. These seats are easily worth $750. I threw them out on the two-face book in the marketplace for $200. Literally a steal but I just wanted them gone and I felt good by giving someone a deal. After two days of messaging and I agree to hold the seats for the guy. He shows up and offers me $100... In my crabby ass pissed off mood I nonchalantly walk over to my tool box, grabbed a box cutter and slashed the shit out the seats. I then turned and replied that they are now worth $100 and I can help him load them in his truck. He was literally speechless and got in the truck and drove away. What he didn't know is that I have OEM seat skins waiting to go on the seats and I was going to throw them in. I loaded them up and gave them to a buddy tonight for free. No good deed ever goes un punished.
Did we just become best friends?
This is very small scale but funny none the less. I used to restore classic cars years ago. I kept my best one and sold off the rest. I was doing some shop cleaning and there were a set of very nice seats out of chevelle ss. These seats are easily worth $750. I threw them out on the two-face book in the marketplace for $200. Literally a steal but I just wanted them gone and I felt good by giving someone a deal. After two days of messaging and I agree to hold the seats for the guy. He shows up and offers me $100... In my crabby ass pissed off mood I nonchalantly walk over to my tool box, grabbed a box cutter and slashed the shit out the seats. I then turned and replied that they are now worth $100 and I can help him load them in his truck. He was literally speechless and got in the truck and drove away. What he didn't know is that I have OEM seat skins waiting to go on the seats and I was going to throw them in. I loaded them up and gave them to a buddy tonight for free. No good deed ever goes un punished.
Did we just become best friends?
Me too!
This is very small scale but funny none the less. I used to restore classic cars years ago. I kept my best one and sold off the rest. I was doing some shop cleaning and there were a set of very nice seats out of chevelle ss. These seats are easily worth $750. I threw them out on the two-face book in the marketplace for $200. Literally a steal but I just wanted them gone and I felt good by giving someone a deal. After two days of messaging and I agree to hold the seats for the guy. He shows up and offers me $100... In my crabby ass pissed off mood I nonchalantly walk over to my tool box, grabbed a box cutter and slashed the shit out the seats. I then turned and replied that they are now worth $100 and I can help him load them in his truck. He was literally speechless and got in the truck and drove away. What he didn't know is that I have OEM seat skins waiting to go on the seats and I was going to throw them in. I loaded them up and gave them to a buddy tonight for free. No good deed ever goes un punished.
Did we just become best friends?
Me too!
Can I be in this awesome club?
Yep probably posted right here in this forum in the Wall of Shame and Comedy section.This is very small scale but funny none the less. I used to restore classic cars years ago. I kept my best one and sold off the rest. I was doing some shop cleaning and there were a set of very nice seats out of chevelle ss. These seats are easily worth $750. I threw them out on the two-face book in the marketplace for $200. Literally a steal but I just wanted them gone and I felt good by giving someone a deal. After two days of messaging and I agree to hold the seats for the guy. He shows up and offers me $100... In my crabby ass pissed off mood I nonchalantly walk over to my tool box, grabbed a box cutter and slashed the shit out the seats. I then turned and replied that they are now worth $100 and I can help him load them in his truck. He was literally speechless and got in the truck and drove away. What he didn't know is that I have OEM seat skins waiting to go on the seats and I was going to throw them in. I loaded them up and gave them to a buddy tonight for free. No good deed ever goes un punished.
Did we just become best friends?
Me too!
Can I be in this awesome club?
UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
That is something else. That guy just offering $100 is special to begin with, but your response is AMAZING. He is probably posting somewhere about the nut he met and managed to avoid....
This is very small scale but funny none the less. I used to restore classic cars years ago. I kept my best one and sold off the rest. I was doing some shop cleaning and there were a set of very nice seats out of chevelle ss. These seats are easily worth $750. I threw them out on the two-face book in the marketplace for $200. Literally a steal but I just wanted them gone and I felt good by giving someone a deal. After two days of messaging and I agree to hold the seats for the guy. He shows up and offers me $100... In my crabby ass pissed off mood I nonchalantly walk over to my tool box, grabbed a box cutter and slashed the shit out the seats. I then turned and replied that they are now worth $100 and I can help him load them in his truck. He was literally speechless and got in the truck and drove away. What he didn't know is that I have OEM seat skins waiting to go on the seats and I was going to throw them in. I loaded them up and gave them to a buddy tonight for free. No good deed ever goes un punished.
Did we just become best friends?
Me too!
Can I be in this awesome club?
UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
That is something else. That guy just offering $100 is special to begin with, but your response is AMAZING. He is probably posting somewhere about the nut he met and managed to avoid....
I don't have much sympathy for those with huge 6-figure school loan debt because I assume there's no way they were working as much as possible to help pay for school.
This is not about me, but a colleague of mine.Wow. I'm impressed with the subtle, clever planning there. He saw the layoff coming, set himself up as a single point of failure, declined to sign the package, and when he had the position of strength, he used it as leverage to get himself a sweet deal.
I worked for a large telecommunications company and each year like clockwork they usually lay off x percent of the company. I had a friend who worked in the long distance department, and he was in charge of all the tables to keep track of the local calling areas. Each year his department got smaller and smaller until effectively he was the only one that really knew how the tables worked. If they wanted to make any price changes, etc. they needed him to make the changes or it wouldn't go through. Well he got a new Director and I guess he didn't really know what my friend did. My friend got called into a "meeting" and was told that he was getting laid off effectively immediately and asked to sign the exit package. My friend quietly declined to sign and said that he needed to consult a lawyer. After he was escorted out, he called all of his contacts at work and told them they better escalate to their VP's because they were effectively screwed now he was gone.
Next day he gets a call from HR offering his old job back plus a small raise. He politely declinced but did tell them he'd come back as a contractor at double his normal rate as long as they signed a two year contract, and increased his exit package. Long story short he got what he wanted and has been a contractor for more than the original two years.
... CNC lathe machine section, google if necessary . . .
Actually, there was a string of employees that had left before me, and I had heard from other workers that the director wasn't sure why this was happening. Once I figured out that I really didn't need to stay there, the fire was lit.
...
I wrote up a huge letter to the director detailing why I was leaving, the toxic environment, the work being passed on to others, put the letter under his door, put my badge and key on the desk, and left 2 minutes before she was due to return from lunch.
I want to know, too, so here's a bat signal to @Schmidty. Don't keep us hanging!Actually, there was a string of employees that had left before me, and I had heard from other workers that the director wasn't sure why this was happening. Once I figured out that I really didn't need to stay there, the fire was lit.
...
I wrote up a huge letter to the director detailing why I was leaving, the toxic environment, the work being passed on to others, put the letter under his door, put my badge and key on the desk, and left 2 minutes before she was due to return from lunch.
Great story, but I want to know what happened to the horrible manager. If there was a string of employees who had left, the director didn't know why, but when you left you wrote the director a note describing the work environment, did the director take action? You can't leave that thread hanging!
"I also took two summer classes so I could graduate on time the next May, classes were from about 8:00-12:00. Other than the job inherently sucking but otherwise paying ok, they would change the schedule constantly, and you had no input on your hours. Lot of work this month? The sched is now 6-6. They would tell us this on Friday, for the next Monday. Also on Fridays they would tell us whether we had to work Saturday. Impossible to make any weekend plans for this reason. I would constantly fall asleep in class in the mornings. The profs I had that summer must have known (small classes) but gave me good grades anyway. I was seriously afraid of falling asleep driving home after work. I constantly felt s***-faced drunk, kinda like a zombie.
I want to know, too, so here's a bat signal to @Schmidty. Don't keep us hanging!Actually, there was a string of employees that had left before me, and I had heard from other workers that the director wasn't sure why this was happening. Once I figured out that I really didn't need to stay there, the fire was lit.
...
I wrote up a huge letter to the director detailing why I was leaving, the toxic environment, the work being passed on to others, put the letter under his door, put my badge and key on the desk, and left 2 minutes before she was due to return from lunch.
Great story, but I want to know what happened to the horrible manager. If there was a string of employees who had left, the director didn't know why, but when you left you wrote the director a note describing the work environment, did the director take action? You can't leave that thread hanging!
... Last I heard she was job-hopping places along with her husband-hopping (she was on #12 when I worked with her, am not even kidding).
... Last I heard she was job-hopping places along with her husband-hopping (she was on #12 when I worked with her, am not even kidding).
#12 husband?!? I can see job #12 but after a certain number wouldn't you give up on being married?
QuoteI don't have much sympathy for those with huge 6-figure school loan debt because I assume there's no way they were working as much as possible to help pay for school.
That was a good story.
Yes, six fig loans are ridiculous.
But what you did was dangerous. I don't consider working and going to school until you nod off to be at all safe. Now, I worked PT in college and studied my ass off (4 hours of sleep a night, whee!) and fell asleep in class too - but at least I didn't own a car and only walked across campus. I wasn't going to accidentally kill someone doing that.
I wouldn't recommend anyone work themselves to exhaustion like that.
Her last day she shows up, and they introduce her to a new (Mexican) waitress, and ask her if she can train her replacement.Wow. At least they had the courage to state the reason.
DW says "dafuq, i thought there wasn't enough work"
Managers say "well... Also... Actually... You're not exactly authentic enough" (that's an actual quote)
Not sure if "courage" is correct, or just astonishment that at the racism is called out.
I had a housemate who was very blond, and worked at an East Indian restaurant. I thought it was pretty cool.
I'm more concerned that the restaurant Clientele matches the restaurants ethnicity, but only in locales with enough appropriate persons of that ethnicity. However, sometimes middle of nowhere has the most awesome ethnic food, with ALL the local ethnics working at that restaurant.
My guess is he means that if you see your local Chinese community frequent a particular restaurant, it means the restaurant's food is likely more authentic/yummier.Not sure if "courage" is correct, or just astonishment that at the racism is called out.
I had a housemate who was very blond, and worked at an East Indian restaurant. I thought it was pretty cool.
I'm more concerned that the restaurant Clientele matches the restaurants ethnicity, but only in locales with enough appropriate persons of that ethnicity. However, sometimes middle of nowhere has the most awesome ethnic food, with ALL the local ethnics working at that restaurant.
I'm confused. Why does it matter whether the clientele matches the restaurant's ethnicity? If I'm white and want to eat at an Asian restaurant, or if I'm Asian and feel like Italian food, why does it matter whether I'll "match" the restaurant's food, regardless of how many "appropriate persons of that ethnicity" reside at that particular location? I think I'm misunderstanding something here.
My guess is he means that if you see your local Chinese community frequent a particular restaurant, it means the restaurant's food is likely more authentic/yummier.Not sure if "courage" is correct, or just astonishment that at the racism is called out.
I had a housemate who was very blond, and worked at an East Indian restaurant. I thought it was pretty cool.
I'm more concerned that the restaurant Clientele matches the restaurants ethnicity, but only in locales with enough appropriate persons of that ethnicity. However, sometimes middle of nowhere has the most awesome ethnic food, with ALL the local ethnics working at that restaurant.
I'm confused. Why does it matter whether the clientele matches the restaurant's ethnicity? If I'm white and want to eat at an Asian restaurant, or if I'm Asian and feel like Italian food, why does it matter whether I'll "match" the restaurant's food, regardless of how many "appropriate persons of that ethnicity" reside at that particular location? I think I'm misunderstanding something here.
Probably too late...but...termination due to race?
Probably something that would be worth a quick consult.
Just had an FU-money experience this morning!
Backstory: I work at a Mega-Corp, tens of thousands of employees, facilities all over the world, etc. There's a global project to remediate a number of our products, including some at my site. I've been involved in one specific (and specialized) part of the project since January. Another part of the project requires a lead at each site, someone who will organize the activities to be done, people needed, etc. A Project Manager-type role. I am not a Project Manager.
But you know where this is going. This past spring when the division said, "Who's your site lead?" the managers got together, hemmed and hawed, and all said, "My people are Too Busy, but Maenad is already involved, have her do it." My manager agreed and gave the assignment to me.
Over the past 6 months or so it's become brutally clear that I do not have the skills needed for this role. At all. Hell, I don't even know what I don't know. It's to the point that if I continue, I could actually damage my professional reputation by taking on something I'm unprepared for.
So this morning I went to my boss and told him I'm refusing this role and why. And that I understand that this can have negative ramifications on my job, but the impact to my career otherwise would be worse. I really, really didn't want to have that conversation, but the managers of the areas that should be doing this are thinking that if they just say No long enough, I'll cave, and I needed to make it clear to my boss that that isn't an option.
It was a really uncomfortable conversation, but it felt so good to know that I didn't have to hurt my career* just to save my job. And as it turns out, my boss didn't see this as refusing a direct order at all, so he's OK with me saying no.
*Currently projected to last only another 1.5 years, but still.
Yep, what zolotiyeruki said. Applies to other ethnicies too, not just Chinese. Of course, more authentic might not be to your taste ie, YMMV.My guess is he means that if you see your local Chinese community frequent a particular restaurant, it means the restaurant's food is likely more authentic/yummier.Not sure if "courage" is correct, or just astonishment that at the racism is called out.
I had a housemate who was very blond, and worked at an East Indian restaurant. I thought it was pretty cool.
I'm more concerned that the restaurant Clientele matches the restaurants ethnicity, but only in locales with enough appropriate persons of that ethnicity. However, sometimes middle of nowhere has the most awesome ethnic food, with ALL the local ethnics working at that restaurant.
I'm confused. Why does it matter whether the clientele matches the restaurant's ethnicity? If I'm white and want to eat at an Asian restaurant, or if I'm Asian and feel like Italian food, why does it matter whether I'll "match" the restaurant's food, regardless of how many "appropriate persons of that ethnicity" reside at that particular location? I think I'm misunderstanding something here.
This discussion on restaurants and race reminded me of the cultural appropriation uproar in Portlandia last year. How could a Mexican or an Indian restaurant even consider hiring a white person?
https://www.tastingtable.com/dine/national/portland-kooks-burritos-cultural-appropriation-restaurant-list
/sarc off
Just wanting to bump this awesome thread that I've bingeread this week!
Not my FU story, but my mum:
She worked for one of the Big Four and when she was 52 she turned around to her bosses and said she wanted to retire, assuming they'd negotiate a steadily decreasing part-time arrangement over the next year to hand over her projects etc (in the same way two of her peers were in the process of doing). The partner who supervised her PANICKED, blurting out that they couldn't afford that, no-one had any of her knowledge, there was no-one to take over and he had no plan for replacing her as her skillset was probably unique in the world, let alone the UK.
She came out of that meeting with three weeks of extra PTO and an agreement to let her have a 3 month half-pay sabbatical the following year (the reason she wanted to retire early was to travel and enjoy some new cultures). Stupidly, they didn't set a time limit in the agreement for how long she had to stay so after she'd come back from the sabbatical and been back working for about 6 months, back she comes into his office. "I want to retire." This time, she walks out with another two weeks of PTO and a £15k pay increase.
Another year passes, another "retirement", out she walks with yet another two weeks of PTO and another big pay increase.
Eventually, she retires aged 63, with a whopping 22 weeks of PTO per year, having had three sabbaticals, paid £112k more per year than she was when she first tried to retire and, as a result, with a defined benefit pension plan that had been boosted massively. Even now (5 years later) she's going back to consult 2 or 3 days a month for 160% of her retiring salary...
Just wanting to bump this awesome thread that I've bingeread this week!
Not my FU story, but my mum:
She worked for one of the Big Four and when she was 52 she turned around to her bosses and said she wanted to retire, assuming they'd negotiate a steadily decreasing part-time arrangement over the next year to hand over her projects etc (in the same way two of her peers were in the process of doing). The partner who supervised her PANICKED, blurting out that they couldn't afford that, no-one had any of her knowledge, there was no-one to take over and he had no plan for replacing her as her skillset was probably unique in the world, let alone the UK.
She came out of that meeting with three weeks of extra PTO and an agreement to let her have a 3 month half-pay sabbatical the following year (the reason she wanted to retire early was to travel and enjoy some new cultures). Stupidly, they didn't set a time limit in the agreement for how long she had to stay so after she'd come back from the sabbatical and been back working for about 6 months, back she comes into his office. "I want to retire." This time, she walks out with another two weeks of PTO and a £15k pay increase.
Another year passes, another "retirement", out she walks with yet another two weeks of PTO and another big pay increase.
Eventually, she retires aged 63, with a whopping 22 weeks of PTO per year, having had three sabbaticals, paid £112k more per year than she was when she first tried to retire and, as a result, with a defined benefit pension plan that had been boosted massively. Even now (5 years later) she's going back to consult 2 or 3 days a month for 160% of her retiring salary...
LOVE THIS!!!
This discussion on restaurants and race reminded me of the cultural appropriation uproar in Portlandia last year. How could a Mexican or an Indian restaurant even consider hiring a white person?
https://www.tastingtable.com/dine/national/portland-kooks-burritos-cultural-appropriation-restaurant-list
/sarc off
When is an Asshair not an asshair? (Asshair#5) the latest in a 20+ year saga...
Can you continue to work, please? These are great stories and I think you need more content to entertain us.
TIA
When is an Asshair not an asshair? (Asshair#5) the latest in a 20+ year saga...
Can you continue to work, please? These are great stories and I think you need more content to entertain us.
TIA
Not likely, but I *DO* have a follow-up on Asshair#5 which is karmicly interesting... funny(?)... you tell me.
Around August 14th, I rode my bike back to my last contract job site to treat myself to a free fancy coffee. Even without a badge, I walked right in. In fact, someone who knew me arrived at the same minute I did, and HELD THE DOOR FOR ME(!)
I had rolled off the contract work on July 31st after training my back-fill person, and saying my goodbyes. I found my former project co-workers exactly where I expected - 'camping' in the plush kitchen area in one of the more artistic buildings on campus. We were discouraged from 'camping', but we had been promised a regular place to sit & work since APRIL, so... we did what we had to do to continue to perform good work.
They were both happy to see me - my friendly co-worker AND my 'backfill'. BUT... Asshair#5 wasn't scowling in his corner apart from the other two. But while they seemed glad to see me, they also seemed... nervous.
ME: So? What's up? Where's AH5, and why so nervous?
THEM: He was released from the project yesterday. (!!!???!!!) After you left, he had no one to talk him down from the ledge and he continued to muddle in 'corporate politics' (note: a BIG NO-NO when you're a contractor - just 'do-the-job'). The John let him go. Today, we're meeting with the director to learn OUR fate this morning at 10am.
WHOA! Apparently the guy that caused me to pull the "FI" card [admittedly that was a bit passive aggressive, but I could afford to be that way... I certainly wasn't going to get into playing office politics the way Asshair#5 was doing] was 'released' (fired) from the project because he was overreaching his position, and trying to dictate how the development resources should get THEIR jobs done. There was a massive butting of heads, and it was a fight he wasn't going to win.
I briefly thought... S#!T, I could slip back in and project manage this thing in his place - I know how *I* would run it, and it would be much more to the client's liking! But then, I realized I had already starting selling off all my stuff, donating stuff to Goodwill & other thriftstores, etc to prepare to sell the house and move to a LCOL area. I'd rented the truck for 8/20 - and it wasn't worth postponing FI again just to butter my ego. Ces't la vie!
Instead, I went into 'calm these guys down' mode. "You're the two who are actually doing the WORK on the product / Project planning side, and they'd be crazy to let you go. Just let them know you're still doing the work, and look forward to be able to give direct feedback instead of funneling everything through the 'Asshair#5 Filter'. It was a bittersweet reunion, but I smiled all the way home after using their 'barista machine' to make myself two fancy coffee's.
This discussion on restaurants and race reminded me of the cultural appropriation uproar in Portlandia last year. How could a Mexican or an Indian restaurant even consider hiring a white person?
https://www.tastingtable.com/dine/national/portland-kooks-burritos-cultural-appropriation-restaurant-list
/sarc off
Hey, for those of you with a long memory - I posted on here 2 years ago about a hideous boss. Seems I was not alone in thinking so...OMG, I totally remember the horrible "you're fired" texts. I hope you landed on your feet, and that everyone gets a fair settlement.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/4557549/kingston-pet-sitting-business-allegedly-mismanaged-says-former-workers-client/amp/
Hey, for those of you with a long memory - I posted on here 2 years ago about a hideous boss. Seems I was not alone in thinking so...For those who don't have the time to track it down:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/4557549/kingston-pet-sitting-business-allegedly-mismanaged-says-former-workers-client/amp/
Hey, for those of you with a long memory - I posted on here 2 years ago about a hideous boss. Seems I was not alone in thinking so...For those who don't have the time to track it down:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/4557549/kingston-pet-sitting-business-allegedly-mismanaged-says-former-workers-client/amp/
The text message exchange between the boss and Cannot Wait!: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/epic-fu-money-stories/msg1015592/#msg1015592 (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/epic-fu-money-stories/msg1015592/#msg1015592)
Hey, for those of you with a long memory - I posted on here 2 years ago about a hideous boss. Seems I was not alone in thinking so...For those who don't have the time to track it down:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/4557549/kingston-pet-sitting-business-allegedly-mismanaged-says-former-workers-client/amp/
The text message exchange between the boss and Cannot Wait!: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/epic-fu-money-stories/msg1015592/#msg1015592 (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/epic-fu-money-stories/msg1015592/#msg1015592)
Copied from my journal.
..... I said that wouldn't work for me she started threatening me with double speak and dog whistles.....
Copied from my journal.
..... I said that wouldn't work for me she started threatening me with double speak and dog whistles.....
I've read 1984 so I know about double-speak, but I'm curious what constitutes dog whistles.
Copied from my journal.
..... I said that wouldn't work for me she started threatening me with double speak and dog whistles.....
I've read 1984 so I know about double-speak, but I'm curious what constitutes dog whistles.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/dog-whistle-political-meaning
When she started saying she would be checking in with me every day and making sure everything got done, she was signaling she would make my life miserable. I decided she can make someone else's life miserable. :)
Copied from my journal.
So our Executive Director came in my office and told me she wanted to take on a 'leadership role' now that my supervisor was leaving. I said I would need the title of interim director and the according pay. She immediately shot that down. When I said that wouldn't work for me she started threatening me with double speak and dog whistles. I decided life is too short to put up with that crap and sent HR my two weeks notice.
I have some money saved and a part time job. But if anyone wants to buy one of my short stories, here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CKSBZT1
Awesome job asking for the pay and title rather than just taking the rotten offer! We had one today at work, mid to late 50s senior purchasing guy quit today, and his last day is this coming Wednesday! His boss was an abrasive tool. (Arrogant without an ounce of smarts to back it up, I suspect he was born with a "Craftsmen" birthmark). He resigned with 3 days notice and pretty sure he bailed about 2 today. I heard this and congratulated him on the great big double bird to Megacorp. He just laughed and said "F this place, I'm retired". He drives a Prius and brings his lunch most days. Pretty GD funny as the joint has lost a number of bright folks in the last few years. Made my day to see him grinning from ear to ear and happy as hell.
Awesome job asking for the pay and title rather than just taking the rotten offer!
...
Fun story: 5 year old told me to my face that women are biologically inferior to men in math and science. It's a mathy job, mostly staffed by women ....
...
Fun story: 5 year old told me to my face that women are biologically inferior to men in math and science. It's a mathy job, mostly staffed by women ....
Cannot believe in this day and age that any man can think this!
...
Fun story: 5 year old told me to my face that women are biologically inferior to men in math and science. It's a mathy job, mostly staffed by women ....
Cannot believe in this day and age that any man can think this!
...
Fun story: 5 year old told me to my face that women are biologically inferior to men in math and science. It's a mathy job, mostly staffed by women ....
Cannot believe in this day and age that any man can think this!
I can sadly. There’s a lot of BS that gets sold as a package deal on the Internet that people swallow without picking it apart critically. Especially if it aligns with an ideology and buy in ingratiates you with one side or not buying it may get you ostracized.
...
Fun story: 5 year old told me to my face that women are biologically inferior to men in math and science. It's a mathy job, mostly staffed by women ....
Cannot believe in this day and age that any man can think this!
I can sadly. There’s a lot of BS that gets sold as a package deal on the Internet that people swallow without picking it apart critically. Especially if it aligns with an ideology and buy in ingratiates you with one side or not buying it may get you ostracized.
His is old money/rich-white-guy-club + religion at its core
...
Fun story: 5 year old told me to my face that women are biologically inferior to men in math and science. It's a mathy job, mostly staffed by women ....
Cannot believe in this day and age that any man can think this!
I can sadly. There’s a lot of BS that gets sold as a package deal on the Internet that people swallow without picking it apart critically. Especially if it aligns with an ideology and buy in ingratiates you with one side or not buying it may get you ostracized.
His is old money/rich-white-guy-club + religion at its core
What I can't believe is that he is foolish enough to voice this opinion out loud. Like, hasn't he gone to enough HR-covers-their-ass-because-the-lawyers-told-them-to seminars and trainings? I can't tell you how many hours I've had to spend in "trainings" like that over the years.
...
Fun story: 5 year old told me to my face that women are biologically inferior to men in math and science. It's a mathy job, mostly staffed by women ....
Cannot believe in this day and age that any man can think this!
I can sadly. There’s a lot of BS that gets sold as a package deal on the Internet that people swallow without picking it apart critically. Especially if it aligns with an ideology and buy in ingratiates you with one side or not buying it may get you ostracized.
His is old money/rich-white-guy-club + religion at its core
What I can't believe is that he is foolish enough to voice this opinion out loud. Like, hasn't he gone to enough HR-covers-their-ass-because-the-lawyers-told-them-to seminars and trainings? I can't tell you how many hours I've had to spend in "trainings" like that over the years.
...
Fun story: 5 year old told me to my face that women are biologically inferior to men in math and science. It's a mathy job, mostly staffed by women ....
Cannot believe in this day and age that any man can think this!
I can sadly. There’s a lot of BS that gets sold as a package deal on the Internet that people swallow without picking it apart critically. Especially if it aligns with an ideology and buy in ingratiates you with one side or not buying it may get you ostracized.
His is old money/rich-white-guy-club + religion at its core
...
Fun story: 5 year old told me to my face that women are biologically inferior to men in math and science. It's a mathy job, mostly staffed by women ....
Cannot believe in this day and age that any man can think this!
I can sadly. There’s a lot of BS that gets sold as a package deal on the Internet that people swallow without picking it apart critically. Especially if it aligns with an ideology and buy in ingratiates you with one side or not buying it may get you ostracized.
His is old money/rich-white-guy-club + religion at its core
I once started a new job as a manager of a team, and one dude promptly told me that he had to verify my instructions with, and I quote, 'the man in charge', because he was Christian and couldn't take instructions from a woman.
....
smalllife just saw your update - I think until you've worked somewhere like that and saw it in action - even a lot of women still refuse to believe it. Sometimes I think the young women of today have blinders on or have been brainwashed into thinking that women already have equality in the working world.
Wage slaves don't fight back, you need both FU money and personal courage to walk away.
I once started a new job as a manager of a team, and one dude promptly told me that he had to verify my instructions with, and I quote, 'the man in charge', because he was Christian and couldn't take instructions from a woman.
Plus, I think I've read that studies show that equality really takes a dive after the first few years. Any kind of "gap" is not necessarily noticed at the beginning, because it's small.....
smalllife just saw your update - I think until you've worked somewhere like that and saw it in action - even a lot of women still refuse to believe it. Sometimes I think the young women of today have blinders on or have been brainwashed into thinking that women already have equality in the working world.
Wage slaves don't fight back, you need both FU money and personal courage to walk away.
To be fair, I didn't necessarily see it either at first. I do now. It took experience and maturity. When you're right out of college, you expect to be questioned, etc. Regardless of what gender you are. Now, I've been lucky. I'm the right color to protect me from some of it. And I've had luck working with people who aren't at least terrible. I do deal with crap, just a lot less than other women do.
Plus, I think I've read that studies show that equality really takes a dive after the first few years. Any kind of "gap" is not necessarily noticed at the beginning, because it's small.....
smalllife just saw your update - I think until you've worked somewhere like that and saw it in action - even a lot of women still refuse to believe it. Sometimes I think the young women of today have blinders on or have been brainwashed into thinking that women already have equality in the working world.
Wage slaves don't fight back, you need both FU money and personal courage to walk away.
To be fair, I didn't necessarily see it either at first. I do now. It took experience and maturity. When you're right out of college, you expect to be questioned, etc. Regardless of what gender you are. Now, I've been lucky. I'm the right color to protect me from some of it. And I've had luck working with people who aren't at least terrible. I do deal with crap, just a lot less than other women do.
It's one reason why change takes such a long time. I certainly saw a difference in treatment right off the bat, but then I was a woman in the military (at least my pay was the same!! Last time that ever happened.)
As you get more experience to where you are the expert, or expect to be taken seriously - that's when the shit really starts to happen.
Last January I saved enough money to quit my full-time job and start my editing business. I had unexpectedly landed a new client who could provide part-time work that paid twice my hourly pay. My boss asked me to stay longer since new businesses take time to build up. I said, "no thanks!" and it felt great.
I'm not Christian, but I didn't realize that men who wear their Christian religions on their sleeves looked down on women. I thought that would be somehow... not Christ-like? Fascinating
I'm not Christian, but I didn't realize that men who wear their Christian religions on their sleeves looked down on women. I thought that would be somehow... not Christ-like? Fascinating
It is un-Christ-like.
In addition to the guy mentioned in my earlier post on the subject of Christian men looking down on women, especially women in the workplace, I quit a job because I found myself with a manager who believed that women should be at home with children and, as a childless married woman, I realized there would be no promotions or raises from this guy because he was waiting for me to come to my senses, have a baby and quit. He was shocked when I found a new job instead and with one of the premier employers in the area.
I'm not Christian, but I didn't realize that men who wear their Christian religions on their sleeves looked down on women. I thought that would be somehow... not Christ-like? Fascinating
It is un-Christ-like.
In addition to the guy mentioned in my earlier post on the subject of Christian men looking down on women, especially women in the workplace, I quit a job because I found myself with a manager who believed that women should be at home with children and, as a childless married woman, I realized there would be no promotions or raises from this guy because he was waiting for me to come to my senses, have a baby and quit. He was shocked when I found a new job instead and with one of the premier employers in the area.
Yeah, I "quit" a job with a manager who was quite clear that I didn't need to earn as much as the guy in the next office who had somewhat less experience than I did and no masters degree.
"Quit" is in quotes, because he was lining me up to be fired because I had realized this and was figuring out how to complain. Also, he claimed I missed a meeting (for which I had called into another coworker to explain my absence, because I was ... at the Obstetrician's office, having a miscarriage). This was in the early 2000's, so not exactly the olden days. (And I still bump into that manager around town sometimes, ick.)
I didn't even realize I had an EPIC FUM moment until I described an altercation that I had with a manager to a coworker and his response was "wow, you must be financially secure". After a second, I smiled very broadly and said, "yeah, I guess I am". All of a sudden, I was no longer worried about the disagreement we had had. Best feeling ever.
Details are not even important.
Did you get any compensation for that treatment? Did you sue then or go through arbitration?I'm not Christian, but I didn't realize that men who wear their Christian religions on their sleeves looked down on women. I thought that would be somehow... not Christ-like? Fascinating
It is un-Christ-like.
In addition to the guy mentioned in my earlier post on the subject of Christian men looking down on women, especially women in the workplace, I quit a job because I found myself with a manager who believed that women should be at home with children and, as a childless married woman, I realized there would be no promotions or raises from this guy because he was waiting for me to come to my senses, have a baby and quit. He was shocked when I found a new job instead and with one of the premier employers in the area.
Yeah, I "quit" a job with a manager who was quite clear that I didn't need to earn as much as the guy in the next office who had somewhat less experience than I did and no masters degree.
"Quit" is in quotes, because he was lining me up to be fired because I had realized this and was figuring out how to complain. Also, he claimed I missed a meeting (for which I had called into another coworker to explain my absence, because I was ... at the Obstetrician's office, having a miscarriage). This was in the early 2000's, so not exactly the olden days. (And I still bump into that manager around town sometimes, ick.)
I'm not Christian, but I didn't realize that men who wear their Christian religions on their sleeves looked down on women. I thought that would be somehow... not Christ-like? Fascinating
It is un-Christ-like.
In addition to the guy mentioned in my earlier post on the subject of Christian men looking down on women, especially women in the workplace, I quit a job because I found myself with a manager who believed that women should be at home with children and, as a childless married woman, I realized there would be no promotions or raises from this guy because he was waiting for me to come to my senses, have a baby and quit. He was shocked when I found a new job instead and with one of the premier employers in the area.
Yeah, I "quit" a job with a manager who was quite clear that I didn't need to earn as much as the guy in the next office who had somewhat less experience than I did and no masters degree.
"Quit" is in quotes, because he was lining me up to be fired because I had realized this and was figuring out how to complain. Also, he claimed I missed a meeting (for which I had called into another coworker to explain my absence, because I was ... at the Obstetrician's office, having a miscarriage). This was in the early 2000's, so not exactly the olden days. (And I still bump into that manager around town sometimes, ick.)
A major motivator for me leaving my last job is because when I met my new boss (old company was purchased) I was standing there at like 7 months pregnant and he explained to me that he believes that the woman's job is to stay home and raise kids. Also my role was environmental and he felt the need to explain to me that he was happy to drive his giant truck (with modifications to remove all emission controls) to counter-balance my EV.
Did you get any compensation for that treatment? Did you sue then or go through arbitration?I'm not Christian, but I didn't realize that men who wear their Christian religions on their sleeves looked down on women. I thought that would be somehow... not Christ-like? Fascinating
It is un-Christ-like.
In addition to the guy mentioned in my earlier post on the subject of Christian men looking down on women, especially women in the workplace, I quit a job because I found myself with a manager who believed that women should be at home with children and, as a childless married woman, I realized there would be no promotions or raises from this guy because he was waiting for me to come to my senses, have a baby and quit. He was shocked when I found a new job instead and with one of the premier employers in the area.
Yeah, I "quit" a job with a manager who was quite clear that I didn't need to earn as much as the guy in the next office who had somewhat less experience than I did and no masters degree.
"Quit" is in quotes, because he was lining me up to be fired because I had realized this and was figuring out how to complain. Also, he claimed I missed a meeting (for which I had called into another coworker to explain my absence, because I was ... at the Obstetrician's office, having a miscarriage). This was in the early 2000's, so not exactly the olden days. (And I still bump into that manager around town sometimes, ick.)
Its been wonderful watching. Absolutely glorious management disconnect, currently I prefer watching this to netflix.
Details are not even important.
I'm not Christian, but I didn't realize that men who wear their Christian religions on their sleeves looked down on women. I thought that would be somehow... not Christ-like? FascinatingLike most faiths, a lot of what goes on in the name of "religion" is really just old tribal values propagating themselves into new generations. The actual tenets of the religion are largely forgotten in favor of the cultural norms that people grew up with, which get conflated with "good Christian1 values" from an early age . This is a prime example of how children learn by what those around them do, more than what they say.
I think it's important to separate the misogyny, the Christianity, and the outspokenness, and not assume that there's always a causal relationship between them. You can't always assume that a person's actions are consistent with their beliefs. In fact, a basic tenet of Christianity is that a person can't be completely faithful. A religious person's views on women may be in accordance to, orthogonal to, or contrary to their professed belief.
Not every outspoken Christian is misogynist, and making a blanket statement to that effect is, in my opinion, divisive and counterproductive, just like saying Republicans don't care about the poor or that illegal immigrants are all criminal gangsters. In fact, I'm wracking my brain trying to think of anyone I've met who's an outspoken Christian misogynist, and I'm coming up blank. But we certainly *remember* those instances, because they're a confluence of three memorable and objectionable traits--the outspokenness, the misogyny, and the Christianity*.
* I call Christianity objectionable here only in the sense that the misogynist's religion is objectionable to the victim in this case
Did you get any compensation for that treatment? Did you sue then or go through arbitration?I'm not Christian, but I didn't realize that men who wear their Christian religions on their sleeves looked down on women. I thought that would be somehow... not Christ-like? Fascinating
It is un-Christ-like.
In addition to the guy mentioned in my earlier post on the subject of Christian men looking down on women, especially women in the workplace, I quit a job because I found myself with a manager who believed that women should be at home with children and, as a childless married woman, I realized there would be no promotions or raises from this guy because he was waiting for me to come to my senses, have a baby and quit. He was shocked when I found a new job instead and with one of the premier employers in the area.
Yeah, I "quit" a job with a manager who was quite clear that I didn't need to earn as much as the guy in the next office who had somewhat less experience than I did and no masters degree.
"Quit" is in quotes, because he was lining me up to be fired because I had realized this and was figuring out how to complain. Also, he claimed I missed a meeting (for which I had called into another coworker to explain my absence, because I was ... at the Obstetrician's office, having a miscarriage). This was in the early 2000's, so not exactly the olden days. (And I still bump into that manager around town sometimes, ick.)
No, which I now have mixed feeling about. At the time, I just wanted to be done with the whole stinky, steamy pile of a situation. Also, that small company had some other problems (several of which came back to bite them in the 5 years or so after I left).
On the one hand, shortly after I left I became pregnant, and shortly after that I wound up being a subcontractor to the greatest manager I'd had to that point (we'd worked together before). I've now subbed to that guy on and off for 18 years, and I honestly love my work-life balance 95% of the time (I typically work slightly less then half time, on average, at a technical niche job for which I am paid very, very well).
On the other hand, I kinda wish I'd stuck it out and tried to fix the situation somewhat for the next woman who came through.
Did Karma kill them?Did you get any compensation for that treatment? Did you sue then or go through arbitration?I'm not Christian, but I didn't realize that men who wear their Christian religions on their sleeves looked down on women. I thought that would be somehow... not Christ-like? Fascinating
It is un-Christ-like.
In addition to the guy mentioned in my earlier post on the subject of Christian men looking down on women, especially women in the workplace, I quit a job because I found myself with a manager who believed that women should be at home with children and, as a childless married woman, I realized there would be no promotions or raises from this guy because he was waiting for me to come to my senses, have a baby and quit. He was shocked when I found a new job instead and with one of the premier employers in the area.
Yeah, I "quit" a job with a manager who was quite clear that I didn't need to earn as much as the guy in the next office who had somewhat less experience than I did and no masters degree.
"Quit" is in quotes, because he was lining me up to be fired because I had realized this and was figuring out how to complain. Also, he claimed I missed a meeting (for which I had called into another coworker to explain my absence, because I was ... at the Obstetrician's office, having a miscarriage). This was in the early 2000's, so not exactly the olden days. (And I still bump into that manager around town sometimes, ick.)
No, which I now have mixed feeling about. At the time, I just wanted to be done with the whole stinky, steamy pile of a situation. Also, that small company had some other problems (several of which came back to bite them in the 5 years or so after I left).
On the one hand, shortly after I left I became pregnant, and shortly after that I wound up being a subcontractor to the greatest manager I'd had to that point (we'd worked together before). I've now subbed to that guy on and off for 18 years, and I honestly love my work-life balance 95% of the time (I typically work slightly less then half time, on average, at a technical niche job for which I am paid very, very well).
On the other hand, I kinda wish I'd stuck it out and tried to fix the situation somewhat for the next woman who came through.
Yeah, I know. This is tough.
I had an experience where I was working part time (30 hrs / week), got a new boss and they told me they don't believe in PT. I argued. I lost. I quit.
The happy note is that they let the next woman who asked for part time go part time. But after a couple of years, they pressured her to go full time. She quit.
During this time, there was another woman working part time - that was okay because she "wasn't in a technical position" (she had a PhD in materials science, so they corrected that to "not in the critical path"). After getting more work thrown at her so that she was working 40+ hours...she quit.
Finally, probably 5 years later? Another new mom who went part time...and they let her stay part time for as long as she liked. Until they shut down.
Did Karma kill them?Did you get any compensation for that treatment? Did you sue then or go through arbitration?I'm not Christian, but I didn't realize that men who wear their Christian religions on their sleeves looked down on women. I thought that would be somehow... not Christ-like? Fascinating
It is un-Christ-like.
In addition to the guy mentioned in my earlier post on the subject of Christian men looking down on women, especially women in the workplace, I quit a job because I found myself with a manager who believed that women should be at home with children and, as a childless married woman, I realized there would be no promotions or raises from this guy because he was waiting for me to come to my senses, have a baby and quit. He was shocked when I found a new job instead and with one of the premier employers in the area.
Yeah, I "quit" a job with a manager who was quite clear that I didn't need to earn as much as the guy in the next office who had somewhat less experience than I did and no masters degree.
"Quit" is in quotes, because he was lining me up to be fired because I had realized this and was figuring out how to complain. Also, he claimed I missed a meeting (for which I had called into another coworker to explain my absence, because I was ... at the Obstetrician's office, having a miscarriage). This was in the early 2000's, so not exactly the olden days. (And I still bump into that manager around town sometimes, ick.)
No, which I now have mixed feeling about. At the time, I just wanted to be done with the whole stinky, steamy pile of a situation. Also, that small company had some other problems (several of which came back to bite them in the 5 years or so after I left).
On the one hand, shortly after I left I became pregnant, and shortly after that I wound up being a subcontractor to the greatest manager I'd had to that point (we'd worked together before). I've now subbed to that guy on and off for 18 years, and I honestly love my work-life balance 95% of the time (I typically work slightly less then half time, on average, at a technical niche job for which I am paid very, very well).
On the other hand, I kinda wish I'd stuck it out and tried to fix the situation somewhat for the next woman who came through.
Yeah, I know. This is tough.
I had an experience where I was working part time (30 hrs / week), got a new boss and they told me they don't believe in PT. I argued. I lost. I quit.
The happy note is that they let the next woman who asked for part time go part time. But after a couple of years, they pressured her to go full time. She quit.
During this time, there was another woman working part time - that was okay because she "wasn't in a technical position" (she had a PhD in materials science, so they corrected that to "not in the critical path"). After getting more work thrown at her so that she was working 40+ hours...she quit.
Finally, probably 5 years later? Another new mom who went part time...and they let her stay part time for as long as she liked. Until they shut down.
On the other hand, I kinda wish I'd stuck it out and tried to fix the situation somewhat for the next woman who came through.
But the agency also refused to fill any more assignments for Lovely Rita saying "we can't seem to meet her needs" which is code for when a client becomes too impossible to work with.
QuoteBut the agency also refused to fill any more assignments for Lovely Rita saying "we can't seem to meet her needs" which is code for when a client becomes too impossible to work with.
This is glorious.
QuoteBut the agency also refused to fill any more assignments for Lovely Rita saying "we can't seem to meet her needs" which is code for when a client becomes too impossible to work with.
This is glorious.
The tale of how I quit The Big Company because of FU money is forthcoming.
Sounds a lot like GE to me.ah ha that was my thought too.
Sounds a lot like GE to me.ah ha that was my thought too.
But then I realized: there are quite a large # of companies that fit this category.
Still glorious!
..... gigantic snip.....
Two months to the day that I walked out of TBC, I started my new job….at my old Division A, now acquired by a different company. With higher pay.
......... TBC as it was once known, is a shadow of its former self.
And that, my dear mustachians, is my personal saga of the power of FU money.
I often wonder how much idiocy is just the natural response to a doomed situation because the world has changed and there isn't a market to support TBC's business any more. If nothing will save the company, then no matter what corporate does on the final downhill, it'll look like idiocy in the long run.
Sad how many corporations go down with new CEOs desperately pushing people into the water and re-arranging deck chairs with whomever remains while demanding the band play faster. That's such an easy band aid and it looks good to investors. For once I'd like to see a company say "Fuck that. We're going to hold on to the employees we have, cut other stuff that genuinely won't hurt (like executive bonuses), and shit a product that works and sells. If we die trying it's better to go falling off a cliff than by a thousand cuts." Not going to hold my breath though.
Congrats to saguaro for breaking free.
I have now been home for 3 months and am destressing. The outplacement project has started, but I'm not really in a rush to start working again; I'd like to go back to University and finish my MA. The house is finally properly clean, kids are happy that I can pick them up and have the energy to play and discuss things eith them, husband is happy that he can now fully concentrate on his carreer (he picked dds up fromschool and cooked every night), I have time to contact old friends, and just walk outside as soon as the sun shines.
Interview comes, I am still in shock, but at least don't have the first wave of emotions and manage to handle it well. I hand in my phone and laptop immediately, to no longer be connected to them. Second meeting with HR a week later to discuss severance pay and I manage to negotiate 11 months pay (1 month for every year I worked there), outplacement services on top from reputed agency (by law, they have to offer, but only basic, and they can deduct it from the severance pay), health insurance until the end of the year, glowing letter of recommendation, certificate that I was fired due to a reorganisation (which allows me to claim unemployment benefits later).That is an awesome story! Thanks for sharing! Have you heard at all how things have been running without you, or have you completely disconnected?
Oh, I'm wondering the same thing! Do tell @Siebrie.Interview comes, I am still in shock, but at least don't have the first wave of emotions and manage to handle it well. I hand in my phone and laptop immediately, to no longer be connected to them. Second meeting with HR a week later to discuss severance pay and I manage to negotiate 11 months pay (1 month for every year I worked there), outplacement services on top from reputed agency (by law, they have to offer, but only basic, and they can deduct it from the severance pay), health insurance until the end of the year, glowing letter of recommendation, certificate that I was fired due to a reorganisation (which allows me to claim unemployment benefits later).That is an awesome story! Thanks for sharing! Have you heard at all how things have been running without you, or have you completely disconnected?
I am getting ready to quit work, but this happened to me recently...Can you compensate by moaning about how much money you still owe in SL, mortgage, car, boat, toys, etc. debt? You could claim you're trying to save enough to pay everything off at once a la the Defeat the Net Debt thread.
I was checking my stash on Yahoo Finance, and a co-worker saw my "number"
I am getting vibes in my team, that I have been found out.
Was my own fault, as I dont have wing mirrors on my desk.
Anyone dealt with co-worker envy?
I am getting ready to quit work, but this happened to me recently...
I was checking my stash on Yahoo Finance, and a co-worker saw my "number"
I am getting vibes in my team, that I have been found out.
Was my own fault, as I dont have wing mirrors on my desk.
Anyone dealt with co-worker envy?
I can see and appreciate your points, Rosy, but the specific question was how to deal with co-worker envy. Pride of accomplishment doesn't seem to be the issue here.I am getting ready to quit work, but this happened to me recently...
I was checking my stash on Yahoo Finance, and a co-worker saw my "number"
I am getting vibes in my team, that I have been found out.
Was my own fault, as I dont have wing mirrors on my desk.
Anyone dealt with co-worker envy?
It depends - on the atmosphere at work in general and how well you get along with your co-workers. Could be a teaching opportunity to open someone's eye to the opportunity of FIRE or just smile mysteriously and don't engage when asked:)
Either option would make me feel good and proud:) - but there are a myriad of other responses incl some fun snarky ones as well of course.
I'd own it or aren't you proud and happy to be in a position to pull the plug? I can understand stealth wealth to a degree, but I would not go as far as lying about my circumstances - whatever for? You made the most out of your own opportunities and now you can finally say FU or express yourself in an adult way if you so choose.
I am getting ready to quit work, but this happened to me recently...
I was checking my stash on Yahoo Finance, and a co-worker saw my "number"
I am getting vibes in my team, that I have been found out.
Was my own fault, as I dont have wing mirrors on my desk.
Anyone dealt with co-worker envy?
But 1) that's a lie, and 2) it's a lie that will become brazen and obvious when OP FIREs in the near future
I am getting ready to quit work, but this happened to me recently...
I was checking my stash on Yahoo Finance, and a co-worker saw my "number"
I am getting vibes in my team, that I have been found out.
Was my own fault, as I dont have wing mirrors on my desk.
Anyone dealt with co-worker envy?
I'm not sure if this is a good story about FU money or a bad one. About 18 months ago I left a job I'd been at for several years (3) because it was AWFUL. I found another job, which paid a lot more but was slightly insane from the get go - the HR manager that hired me was fired for bullying a month after I arrived. It got worse. And worse. Last thursday there were two seriously last straw moments, and I left mid shift. I'd been there just on a year. Anyhoo, the FU money has given me the freedom to walk, and the leverage to negotiate that I leave immediately and they pay me out four weeks leave. Probably not good for a career, whatever that is (!) but absolutely fantastic for my mental health. I actually feel euphoric. So I guess the bad side of FU money is that you can use it???? I'm a fairly tough broad but I ate of looooooot of shit in this job before I left. I did not have fucks left to give, as the song goes......
I'm not sure if this is a good story about FU money or a bad one. About 18 months ago I left a job I'd been at for several years (3) because it was AWFUL. I found another job, which paid a lot more but was slightly insane from the get go - the HR manager that hired me was fired for bullying a month after I arrived. It got worse. And worse. Last thursday there were two seriously last straw moments, and I left mid shift. I'd been there just on a year. Anyhoo, the FU money has given me the freedom to walk, and the leverage to negotiate that I leave immediately and they pay me out four weeks leave. Probably not good for a career, whatever that is (!) but absolutely fantastic for my mental health. I actually feel euphoric. So I guess the bad side of FU money is that you can use it???? I'm a fairly tough broad but I ate of looooooot of shit in this job before I left. I did not have fucks left to give, as the song goes......
I don't know if this is actually epic, but here goes. My husband's job...sucks. He does groundskeeping for a 180 unit apartment complex. He likes the job, and it paid decently well. His boss has hated him ever since he was offered (and turned down) the GM job at another complex. She has done everything she can over the last two years to make him quit. Changing his time card and cheating him of time? Check. Making him buy back vacation days in cash only days before the start of scheduled trip and still telling him that they couldn't guarantee that he'd have a job when he got back? Check. Suspending him for two days because he couldn't/wouldn't rake leaves in a thunderstorm? Check.
So, it turns out that she was trying to get him to quit because the company is trying to cut payroll. It was announced Friday afternoon that everyone was being cut to minimum wage. That's something like a 40% pay cut for everyone. Effective today. He'll be tendering his resignation this morning and we have every intention of fighting them on a constructive dismissal unemployment claim. They're lucky I can't prove the wage theft.
The FU part comes in because we don't actually need his job to pay the bills. The lights aren't going to get cut off. We're not going to eat ramen noodles for three meals a day. We probably won't even adjust the amount going into my retirement accounts. The only part that sucks is that for all their BS, they had a decent 401(k) plan with low-cost Vanguard funds and they matched 50 cents on the dollar up to 16.66%.
Funny that they noticed that DH is not particularly upset. Someone asked if he won the lottery or something.
Not an epic story but it appears DH's days are numbered at his current job. It's not completely unexpected. In a nutshell, the company has not been doing well in recent years, in part due to being in a declining industry but also some really bad management decisions have not helped. Just about every day someone from one of the offices is let go and management pretty much is throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks.
DH was pulled into a meeting, being advised that the company is "restructuring" for the umpteenth time but this time, they want to move him into another position instead of changing bosses. The job involves working nights and weekends, doing some work that he isn't remotely qualified for (editorial work for a newspaper, he's one of their web developers for the online editions), in an nearly empty building in an industrial area with no security, all for the same pay he is making now. He actually had to "interview" for this job. He doesn't think he will get it nor does he want it, though he's concerned they might insist that he try it out for a few weeks. He mentioned the security concerns as well has he has limited night vision for driving at dark. He's fully prepared to leave today if they tell him.
Thanks to FU money (plus DH is eligible take his social security though we won't need it right now) so we will be all right. In fact, over the weekend he started calculating the cost savings of not working this job like gas, etc. Not to mention a lot less stress. DH is 63, he was hoping to make it to 65 but in the last few months started realizing the end of his current employment might come sooner. He's got a couple of other income streams that he could devote more time to. He still plans to keep an eye out for job openings as he is willing to take the right opportunity if it presents itself but it's not urgent.
Funny that they noticed that DH is not particularly upset. Someone asked if he won the lottery or something.
Not an epic story but it appears DH's days are numbered at his current job. It's not completely unexpected. In a nutshell, the company has not been doing well in recent years, in part due to being in a declining industry but also some really bad management decisions have not helped. Just about every day someone from one of the offices is let go and management pretty much is throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks.
DH was pulled into a meeting, being advised that the company is "restructuring" for the umpteenth time but this time, they want to move him into another position instead of changing bosses. The job involves working nights and weekends, doing some work that he isn't remotely qualified for (editorial work for a newspaper, he's one of their web developers for the online editions), in an nearly empty building in an industrial area with no security, all for the same pay he is making now. He actually had to "interview" for this job. He doesn't think he will get it nor does he want it, though he's concerned they might insist that he try it out for a few weeks. He mentioned the security concerns as well has he has limited night vision for driving at dark. He's fully prepared to leave today if they tell him.
Thanks to FU money (plus DH is eligible take his social security though we won't need it right now) so we will be all right. In fact, over the weekend he started calculating the cost savings of not working this job like gas, etc. Not to mention a lot less stress. DH is 63, he was hoping to make it to 65 but in the last few months started realizing the end of his current employment might come sooner. He's got a couple of other income streams that he could devote more time to. He still plans to keep an eye out for job openings as he is willing to take the right opportunity if it presents itself but it's not urgent.
Funny that they noticed that DH is not particularly upset. Someone asked if he won the lottery or something.
Might he be eligible for unemployment (even if declining this "opportunity")?
In my company we have many people of this age.
Funny that they noticed that DH is not particularly upset. Someone asked if he won the lottery or something.
It is insane that normal the expectation now is that someone 2 years out from normal retirement age would be stressed about a layoff.
@Sugaree , just want to up the odds that (a) you see this so you can take action and (b) to help you stick it to the man, because this particular employer deserves it.I don't know if this is actually epic, but here goes. My husband's job...sucks. He does groundskeeping for a 180 unit apartment complex. He likes the job, and it paid decently well. His boss has hated him ever since he was offered (and turned down) the GM job at another complex. She has done everything she can over the last two years to make him quit. Changing his time card and cheating him of time? Check. Making him buy back vacation days in cash only days before the start of scheduled trip and still telling him that they couldn't guarantee that he'd have a job when he got back? Check. Suspending him for two days because he couldn't/wouldn't rake leaves in a thunderstorm? Check.
So, it turns out that she was trying to get him to quit because the company is trying to cut payroll. It was announced Friday afternoon that everyone was being cut to minimum wage. That's something like a 40% pay cut for everyone. Effective today. He'll be tendering his resignation this morning and we have every intention of fighting them on a constructive dismissal unemployment claim. They're lucky I can't prove the wage theft.
The FU part comes in because we don't actually need his job to pay the bills. The lights aren't going to get cut off. We're not going to eat ramen noodles for three meals a day. We probably won't even adjust the amount going into my retirement accounts. The only part that sucks is that for all their BS, they had a decent 401(k) plan with low-cost Vanguard funds and they matched 50 cents on the dollar up to 16.66%.
You don't have to prove the wage theft yourself. You report it and the state (or federal, depending) agency will investigate on your behalf. I would report it anyway.
@Sugaree , just want to up the odds that (a) you see this so you can take action and (b) to help you stick it to the man, because this particular employer deserves it.I don't know if this is actually epic, but here goes. My husband's job...sucks. He does groundskeeping for a 180 unit apartment complex. He likes the job, and it paid decently well. His boss has hated him ever since he was offered (and turned down) the GM job at another complex. She has done everything she can over the last two years to make him quit. Changing his time card and cheating him of time? Check. Making him buy back vacation days in cash only days before the start of scheduled trip and still telling him that they couldn't guarantee that he'd have a job when he got back? Check. Suspending him for two days because he couldn't/wouldn't rake leaves in a thunderstorm? Check.
So, it turns out that she was trying to get him to quit because the company is trying to cut payroll. It was announced Friday afternoon that everyone was being cut to minimum wage. That's something like a 40% pay cut for everyone. Effective today. He'll be tendering his resignation this morning and we have every intention of fighting them on a constructive dismissal unemployment claim. They're lucky I can't prove the wage theft.
The FU part comes in because we don't actually need his job to pay the bills. The lights aren't going to get cut off. We're not going to eat ramen noodles for three meals a day. We probably won't even adjust the amount going into my retirement accounts. The only part that sucks is that for all their BS, they had a decent 401(k) plan with low-cost Vanguard funds and they matched 50 cents on the dollar up to 16.66%.
You don't have to prove the wage theft yourself. You report it and the state (or federal, depending) agency will investigate on your behalf. I would report it anyway.
He is hoping to get out of there being eligible for unemployment. He's not sure how they got the idea that he could do this job as it requires a whole different skillset from anything he has done during his career. Working editorial on the high school newspaper was a loooonggg time ago. His hours are limited to daylight hours because of issues with night vision, meaning his hours shift with the fall Daylight Savings time change.
HR was at this first meeting. Welp, he just learned the sole HR person is out of the office for 2 weeks so maybe he gets to stick around a bit longer.
BlueHouse, that is epic. I am full of admiration for your mother!
@Sugaree , just want to up the odds that (a) you see this so you can take action and (b) to help you stick it to the man, because this particular employer deserves it.I don't know if this is actually epic, but here goes. My husband's job...sucks. He does groundskeeping for a 180 unit apartment complex. He likes the job, and it paid decently well. His boss has hated him ever since he was offered (and turned down) the GM job at another complex. She has done everything she can over the last two years to make him quit. Changing his time card and cheating him of time? Check. Making him buy back vacation days in cash only days before the start of scheduled trip and still telling him that they couldn't guarantee that he'd have a job when he got back? Check. Suspending him for two days because he couldn't/wouldn't rake leaves in a thunderstorm? Check.
So, it turns out that she was trying to get him to quit because the company is trying to cut payroll. It was announced Friday afternoon that everyone was being cut to minimum wage. That's something like a 40% pay cut for everyone. Effective today. He'll be tendering his resignation this morning and we have every intention of fighting them on a constructive dismissal unemployment claim. They're lucky I can't prove the wage theft.
The FU part comes in because we don't actually need his job to pay the bills. The lights aren't going to get cut off. We're not going to eat ramen noodles for three meals a day. We probably won't even adjust the amount going into my retirement accounts. The only part that sucks is that for all their BS, they had a decent 401(k) plan with low-cost Vanguard funds and they matched 50 cents on the dollar up to 16.66%.
You don't have to prove the wage theft yourself. You report it and the state (or federal, depending) agency will investigate on your behalf. I would report it anyway.
I totally agree. It has been one thing after another for months now. This probably isn't even the half of it. What sucks is that he really liked his job. The hours were good. He loves the tenants. He liked most of his co-workers. But local management was allowed to run roughshod over their little fiefdoms.
@Sugaree , just want to up the odds that (a) you see this so you can take action and (b) to help you stick it to the man, because this particular employer deserves it.I don't know if this is actually epic, but here goes. My husband's job...sucks. He does groundskeeping for a 180 unit apartment complex. He likes the job, and it paid decently well. His boss has hated him ever since he was offered (and turned down) the GM job at another complex. She has done everything she can over the last two years to make him quit. Changing his time card and cheating him of time? Check. Making him buy back vacation days in cash only days before the start of scheduled trip and still telling him that they couldn't guarantee that he'd have a job when he got back? Check. Suspending him for two days because he couldn't/wouldn't rake leaves in a thunderstorm? Check.
So, it turns out that she was trying to get him to quit because the company is trying to cut payroll. It was announced Friday afternoon that everyone was being cut to minimum wage. That's something like a 40% pay cut for everyone. Effective today. He'll be tendering his resignation this morning and we have every intention of fighting them on a constructive dismissal unemployment claim. They're lucky I can't prove the wage theft.
The FU part comes in because we don't actually need his job to pay the bills. The lights aren't going to get cut off. We're not going to eat ramen noodles for three meals a day. We probably won't even adjust the amount going into my retirement accounts. The only part that sucks is that for all their BS, they had a decent 401(k) plan with low-cost Vanguard funds and they matched 50 cents on the dollar up to 16.66%.
You don't have to prove the wage theft yourself. You report it and the state (or federal, depending) agency will investigate on your behalf. I would report it anyway.
I totally agree. It has been one thing after another for months now. This probably isn't even the half of it. What sucks is that he really liked his job. The hours were good. He loves the tenants. He liked most of his co-workers. But local management was allowed to run roughshod over their little fiefdoms.
Quoting myself to say that they gave him the choice to take minimum wage with no benefits or be "laid off." He chose laid off. Unemployment payments are crap here, but he should still get one more paycheck before we have to worry about that. In theory, he has a week of PTO that should be paid out too, but I'm betting we will have to fight for that and I don't know if it will be worth it. He has some side gigs lined up already, so I think everything's going to be okay.
@Sugaree , just want to up the odds that (a) you see this so you can take action and (b) to help you stick it to the man, because this particular employer deserves it.I don't know if this is actually epic, but here goes. My husband's job...sucks. He does groundskeeping for a 180 unit apartment complex. He likes the job, and it paid decently well. His boss has hated him ever since he was offered (and turned down) the GM job at another complex. She has done everything she can over the last two years to make him quit. Changing his time card and cheating him of time? Check. Making him buy back vacation days in cash only days before the start of scheduled trip and still telling him that they couldn't guarantee that he'd have a job when he got back? Check. Suspending him for two days because he couldn't/wouldn't rake leaves in a thunderstorm? Check.
So, it turns out that she was trying to get him to quit because the company is trying to cut payroll. It was announced Friday afternoon that everyone was being cut to minimum wage. That's something like a 40% pay cut for everyone. Effective today. He'll be tendering his resignation this morning and we have every intention of fighting them on a constructive dismissal unemployment claim. They're lucky I can't prove the wage theft.
The FU part comes in because we don't actually need his job to pay the bills. The lights aren't going to get cut off. We're not going to eat ramen noodles for three meals a day. We probably won't even adjust the amount going into my retirement accounts. The only part that sucks is that for all their BS, they had a decent 401(k) plan with low-cost Vanguard funds and they matched 50 cents on the dollar up to 16.66%.
You don't have to prove the wage theft yourself. You report it and the state (or federal, depending) agency will investigate on your behalf. I would report it anyway.
I totally agree. It has been one thing after another for months now. This probably isn't even the half of it. What sucks is that he really liked his job. The hours were good. He loves the tenants. He liked most of his co-workers. But local management was allowed to run roughshod over their little fiefdoms.
Quoting myself to say that they gave him the choice to take minimum wage with no benefits or be "laid off." He chose laid off. Unemployment payments are crap here, but he should still get one more paycheck before we have to worry about that. In theory, he has a week of PTO that should be paid out too, but I'm betting we will have to fight for that and I don't know if it will be worth it. He has some side gigs lined up already, so I think everything's going to be okay.
Just make sure one of you reports the wage theft. It may take a while, but he worked hard for that money... and if they're doing that to him, he's probably not the only one. There can be a finder's fee as well depending on the circumstances. Another agency that might be interested is the IRS (or the state equivalen). When someone messes with wages, there's a decent chance they're also screwing with taxes.
@Sugaree , just want to up the odds that (a) you see this so you can take action and (b) to help you stick it to the man, because this particular employer deserves it.I don't know if this is actually epic, but here goes. My husband's job...sucks. He does groundskeeping for a 180 unit apartment complex. He likes the job, and it paid decently well. His boss has hated him ever since he was offered (and turned down) the GM job at another complex. She has done everything she can over the last two years to make him quit. Changing his time card and cheating him of time? Check. Making him buy back vacation days in cash only days before the start of scheduled trip and still telling him that they couldn't guarantee that he'd have a job when he got back? Check. Suspending him for two days because he couldn't/wouldn't rake leaves in a thunderstorm? Check.
So, it turns out that she was trying to get him to quit because the company is trying to cut payroll. It was announced Friday afternoon that everyone was being cut to minimum wage. That's something like a 40% pay cut for everyone. Effective today. He'll be tendering his resignation this morning and we have every intention of fighting them on a constructive dismissal unemployment claim. They're lucky I can't prove the wage theft.
The FU part comes in because we don't actually need his job to pay the bills. The lights aren't going to get cut off. We're not going to eat ramen noodles for three meals a day. We probably won't even adjust the amount going into my retirement accounts. The only part that sucks is that for all their BS, they had a decent 401(k) plan with low-cost Vanguard funds and they matched 50 cents on the dollar up to 16.66%.
You don't have to prove the wage theft yourself. You report it and the state (or federal, depending) agency will investigate on your behalf. I would report it anyway.
I totally agree. It has been one thing after another for months now. This probably isn't even the half of it. What sucks is that he really liked his job. The hours were good. He loves the tenants. He liked most of his co-workers. But local management was allowed to run roughshod over their little fiefdoms.
Quoting myself to say that they gave him the choice to take minimum wage with no benefits or be "laid off." He chose laid off. Unemployment payments are crap here, but he should still get one more paycheck before we have to worry about that. In theory, he has a week of PTO that should be paid out too, but I'm betting we will have to fight for that and I don't know if it will be worth it. He has some side gigs lined up already, so I think everything's going to be okay.
Just make sure one of you reports the wage theft. It may take a while, but he worked hard for that money... and if they're doing that to him, he's probably not the only one. There can be a finder's fee as well depending on the circumstances. Another agency that might be interested is the IRS (or the state equivalen). When someone messes with wages, there's a decent chance they're also screwing with taxes.
BlueHouse, that is epic. I am full of admiration for your mother!
+1. Your mom showed epic backbone @BlueHouse. And what a fantastic example for her kids.
BlueHouse, that is epic. I am full of admiration for your mother!
+1. Your mom showed epic backbone @BlueHouse. And what a fantastic example for her kids.
Thanks AMandM and Trifele!
This was back in the late 70s. People have a hard time understanding just how difficult it was for women to stand up for themselves in those times. So witnessing her feeling as if she had some control over her own business was incredibly eye-opening for me as a pre-teen girl. She always told me I could be anything I wanted to be, but I also watched her struggle, so I do believe that small wins like that make a difference.
BlueHouse, that is epic. I am full of admiration for your mother!
+1. Your mom showed epic backbone @BlueHouse. And what a fantastic example for her kids.
Thanks AMandM and Trifele!
This was back in the late 70s. People have a hard time understanding just how difficult it was for women to stand up for themselves in those times. So witnessing her feeling as if she had some control over her own business was incredibly eye-opening for me as a pre-teen girl. She always told me I could be anything I wanted to be, but I also watched her struggle, so I do believe that small wins like that make a difference.
That is not a small win! Your mom told the mob to accept her terms or shove it. She might have the most epic story here!
BlueHouse, that is epic. I am full of admiration for your mother!
+1. Your mom showed epic backbone @BlueHouse. And what a fantastic example for her kids.
Thanks AMandM and Trifele!
This was back in the late 70s. People have a hard time understanding just how difficult it was for women to stand up for themselves in those times. So witnessing her feeling as if she had some control over her own business was incredibly eye-opening for me as a pre-teen girl. She always told me I could be anything I wanted to be, but I also watched her struggle, so I do believe that small wins like that make a difference.
BlueHouse, that is epic. I am full of admiration for your mother!
+1. Your mom showed epic backbone @BlueHouse. And what a fantastic example for her kids.
Thanks AMandM and Trifele!
This was back in the late 70s. People have a hard time understanding just how difficult it was for women to stand up for themselves in those times. So witnessing her feeling as if she had some control over her own business was incredibly eye-opening for me as a pre-teen girl. She always told me I could be anything I wanted to be, but I also watched her struggle, so I do believe that small wins like that make a difference.
That is not a small win! Your mom told the mob to accept her terms or shove it. She might have the most epic story here!
Agreed. In fact, I think this story is in the wrong thread. It is one thing to say shove it because I have some money and don't have to take any crap (true epic FU money stories). It is another thing entirely to have NOTHING, need EVERYTHING, and STILL say FU ...... to the fucking MOB!
Just WOW. How incredibly inspiring. Thank you for sharing.
@Sugaree , just want to up the odds that (a) you see this so you can take action and (b) to help you stick it to the man, because this particular employer deserves it.I don't know if this is actually epic, but here goes. My husband's job...sucks. He does groundskeeping for a 180 unit apartment complex. He likes the job, and it paid decently well. His boss has hated him ever since he was offered (and turned down) the GM job at another complex. She has done everything she can over the last two years to make him quit. Changing his time card and cheating him of time? Check. Making him buy back vacation days in cash only days before the start of scheduled trip and still telling him that they couldn't guarantee that he'd have a job when he got back? Check. Suspending him for two days because he couldn't/wouldn't rake leaves in a thunderstorm? Check.
So, it turns out that she was trying to get him to quit because the company is trying to cut payroll. It was announced Friday afternoon that everyone was being cut to minimum wage. That's something like a 40% pay cut for everyone. Effective today. He'll be tendering his resignation this morning and we have every intention of fighting them on a constructive dismissal unemployment claim. They're lucky I can't prove the wage theft.
The FU part comes in because we don't actually need his job to pay the bills. The lights aren't going to get cut off. We're not going to eat ramen noodles for three meals a day. We probably won't even adjust the amount going into my retirement accounts. The only part that sucks is that for all their BS, they had a decent 401(k) plan with low-cost Vanguard funds and they matched 50 cents on the dollar up to 16.66%.
You don't have to prove the wage theft yourself. You report it and the state (or federal, depending) agency will investigate on your behalf. I would report it anyway.
I totally agree. It has been one thing after another for months now. This probably isn't even the half of it. What sucks is that he really liked his job. The hours were good. He loves the tenants. He liked most of his co-workers. But local management was allowed to run roughshod over their little fiefdoms.
Quoting myself to say that they gave him the choice to take minimum wage with no benefits or be "laid off." He chose laid off. Unemployment payments are crap here, but he should still get one more paycheck before we have to worry about that. In theory, he has a week of PTO that should be paid out too, but I'm betting we will have to fight for that and I don't know if it will be worth it. He has some side gigs lined up already, so I think everything's going to be okay.
Just make sure one of you reports the wage theft. It may take a while, but he worked hard for that money... and if they're doing that to him, he's probably not the only one. There can be a finder's fee as well depending on the circumstances. Another agency that might be interested is the IRS (or the state equivalen). When someone messes with wages, there's a decent chance they're also screwing with taxes.
Yep. He wants to wait for the letter or recommendation from his manager. I think that's a mistake given how much she seemed to dislike him, but whatever.
I would snip, but would mess up the formatting somehow.
Anyway, a family member's former employer was screwing up the wages/overtime/etc rules for years. Someone reported it to the state's DOL, and while I think it took a year or more, all the impacted employees eventually got back pay (up to $20k for some), then they all got recategorized so that they're getting salary + overtime pay. (Please don't ask details, I have no idea.) Messing up wages is a big deal. If it's deliberate, even more so.
@Sugaree , just want to up the odds that (a) you see this so you can take action and (b) to help you stick it to the man, because this particular employer deserves it.I don't know if this is actually epic, but here goes. My husband's job...sucks. He does groundskeeping for a 180 unit apartment complex. He likes the job, and it paid decently well. His boss has hated him ever since he was offered (and turned down) the GM job at another complex. She has done everything she can over the last two years to make him quit. Changing his time card and cheating him of time? Check. Making him buy back vacation days in cash only days before the start of scheduled trip and still telling him that they couldn't guarantee that he'd have a job when he got back? Check. Suspending him for two days because he couldn't/wouldn't rake leaves in a thunderstorm? Check.
So, it turns out that she was trying to get him to quit because the company is trying to cut payroll. It was announced Friday afternoon that everyone was being cut to minimum wage. That's something like a 40% pay cut for everyone. Effective today. He'll be tendering his resignation this morning and we have every intention of fighting them on a constructive dismissal unemployment claim. They're lucky I can't prove the wage theft.
The FU part comes in because we don't actually need his job to pay the bills. The lights aren't going to get cut off. We're not going to eat ramen noodles for three meals a day. We probably won't even adjust the amount going into my retirement accounts. The only part that sucks is that for all their BS, they had a decent 401(k) plan with low-cost Vanguard funds and they matched 50 cents on the dollar up to 16.66%.
You don't have to prove the wage theft yourself. You report it and the state (or federal, depending) agency will investigate on your behalf. I would report it anyway.
I totally agree. It has been one thing after another for months now. This probably isn't even the half of it. What sucks is that he really liked his job. The hours were good. He loves the tenants. He liked most of his co-workers. But local management was allowed to run roughshod over their little fiefdoms.
Quoting myself to say that they gave him the choice to take minimum wage with no benefits or be "laid off." He chose laid off. Unemployment payments are crap here, but he should still get one more paycheck before we have to worry about that. In theory, he has a week of PTO that should be paid out too, but I'm betting we will have to fight for that and I don't know if it will be worth it. He has some side gigs lined up already, so I think everything's going to be okay.
Posting up my DW's story. My wife is a preschool teacher at a private center. She's been working for this place since last August, and has been miserable nearly the entire time. She has been labeled by her boss (the owner) as "confrontational". When asked why, she claimed it was because she questioned the practice of the boss sending out a group text each night with the next day's schedule, then requiring everyone in the group text to reply to the group text. They held it against her for not updating the Facebook site for months, even though she told them back in August that she didn't have admin rights and that they needed to grant those to her if they wanted her to update it (never happened). Since she is salaried, any time off had to be made up - fine. But she was only allowed to count certain hours, the majority of the extra time she put in was not considered eligible. The final straw came yesterday though when she was called into her boss' office and told she was being written up for "missing too much time". Her boss had documented all of the time she claimed my wife missed, but would not let her leave with the sheet without signing it. My wife wanted to cross reference it with her own records and refused to sign it, so they finally gave her a copy. She came home at lunch and found numerous errors/discrepancies that she produced documentation for and copied to the back of the sheet (so it couldn't be misplaced). She took it back into her boss and said, "here is the form, I've attached corrections on the back and signed it, and the sheet below it is my resignation". Her boss wouldn't even look at her and just said, "ok". My wife said, "I'll give you two weeks notice, but I will understand if you don't want it and will leave today if you prefer". Her boss, still not looking at her, said "ok". My wife said, "so.... which do you prefer?" and was finally told she'll take the two weeks. It sucks for my wife's coworkers, because the boss won't hire anyone else and will just expect them to fill in for her. She's already gotten a lot of supportive texts from her coworkers and parents, so she feels validated that not everyone thought she was doing a terrible job (even had some tears from some of her coworkers). I feel for them, but DW has to do what's right for her. She already had another job offer, but we could survive indefinitely without her pay. Just glad she finally put an end to putting up with this one's shit!Hooray! I love this story. Erm, well, not quite. I'm sorry she was in such a miserable situation and glad she's found the exit door.
I think I remember reading this somewhere here but it is a great reminder to get the FU money going immediately in life.
https://www.thebillfold.com/2016/01/a-story-of-a-fuck-off-fund/ (https://www.thebillfold.com/2016/01/a-story-of-a-fuck-off-fund/)
The lovelyDW works in medicine. She switched jobs and life has been much better than the previous workplace. We have made an amazing discovery... No one is in charge! There are lots of big job titles, TONS of meetings where nothing gets done, and no one has the authority to do anything. They complain constantly about everything... They try to get you to work over. They try to switch the schedules. Finally the DW pulled out her contract and asked where it was agreed upon that these things could be changed. No one could get an answer. She politely refused to do what was asked and they threatened to "write her up". She replied that unless she signs the papers that the procedure can't be billed. She suggested three days off without pay, which would happen with more write ups... The problem is that the office manager can't see patients, or perform surgery. No doc, no charges, no surgeries no income to the big machine. Finally administration got involved when the managers called them in. After a quick review of the emails, requests, and other stories... They are currently hiring a new manager LOL. FU money and borderline FIRE give you muscles you never knew you had. She pointed out that an employed physician is very different than a partner. As an employee, you show up, work your shift, do what needs done and go home. They want you to be a part of the practice, but they won't pay more and nothing can quench their thirst. After the meeting they have moved onto others who have no choice but to do what they're told. She is in year 2 of a 3 year contract. They are worried that she doesn't want to renew... They are right!
@Sugaree , just want to up the odds that (a) you see this so you can take action and (b) to help you stick it to the man, because this particular employer deserves it.I don't know if this is actually epic, but here goes. My husband's job...sucks. He does groundskeeping for a 180 unit apartment complex. He likes the job, and it paid decently well. His boss has hated him ever since he was offered (and turned down) the GM job at another complex. She has done everything she can over the last two years to make him quit. Changing his time card and cheating him of time? Check. Making him buy back vacation days in cash only days before the start of scheduled trip and still telling him that they couldn't guarantee that he'd have a job when he got back? Check. Suspending him for two days because he couldn't/wouldn't rake leaves in a thunderstorm? Check.
So, it turns out that she was trying to get him to quit because the company is trying to cut payroll. It was announced Friday afternoon that everyone was being cut to minimum wage. That's something like a 40% pay cut for everyone. Effective today. He'll be tendering his resignation this morning and we have every intention of fighting them on a constructive dismissal unemployment claim. They're lucky I can't prove the wage theft.
The FU part comes in because we don't actually need his job to pay the bills. The lights aren't going to get cut off. We're not going to eat ramen noodles for three meals a day. We probably won't even adjust the amount going into my retirement accounts. The only part that sucks is that for all their BS, they had a decent 401(k) plan with low-cost Vanguard funds and they matched 50 cents on the dollar up to 16.66%.
You don't have to prove the wage theft yourself. You report it and the state (or federal, depending) agency will investigate on your behalf. I would report it anyway.
I totally agree. It has been one thing after another for months now. This probably isn't even the half of it. What sucks is that he really liked his job. The hours were good. He loves the tenants. He liked most of his co-workers. But local management was allowed to run roughshod over their little fiefdoms.
Quoting myself to say that they gave him the choice to take minimum wage with no benefits or be "laid off." He chose laid off. Unemployment payments are crap here, but he should still get one more paycheck before we have to worry about that. In theory, he has a week of PTO that should be paid out too, but I'm betting we will have to fight for that and I don't know if it will be worth it. He has some side gigs lined up already, so I think everything's going to be okay.
Not sure what state you are in, but there are specific rules in PTO payout also. DH's former company (global 50k employee corp) tried to tell him that they did not owe him for PTO, but he had the original hire paperwork that showed otherwise. In NC, vacation pay needs to be paid upon termination unless there is a written policy that states that vacation pay will be forfeited. Each state is different, but that is another claim to your state DOL. Check your state rules and if they don't pay it, I'd report them.
@Sugaree That just sucks. They think they will get away with it, probably because no one has every called them on it. Internet stranger here, but I'd write up a letter with everything you are owed, including paid PTO time and send to the employer. Look at your state and see what penalties they face for not paying on time and include in your notice. Give them a time limit and let them know you will go to your state's DOL to collect after that time. Formal written notice is crucial in this type of situation. I've had it happen twice and each time I received everything I was owed within 24 hours.While I agree with most if this, I have another, more nefarious suggestion. Look up your state's regulations, make up your spreadsheet on what you are owed and then WAIT. It will get a lot more interesting if they violate state law. You don't need the money for this week's groceries, so why not fuck with them right back?
@Sugaree That just sucks. They think they will get away with it, probably because no one has every called them on it. Internet stranger here, but I'd write up a letter with everything you are owed, including paid PTO time and send to the employer. Look at your state and see what penalties they face for not paying on time and include in your notice. Give them a time limit and let them know you will go to your state's DOL to collect after that time. Formal written notice is crucial in this type of situation. I've had it happen twice and each time I received everything I was owed within 24 hours.While I agree with most if this, I have another, more nefarious suggestion. Look up your state's regulations, make up your spreadsheet on what you are owed and then WAIT. It will get a lot more interesting if they violate state law. You don't need the money for this week's groceries, so why not fuck with them right back?
@Sugaree That just sucks. They think they will get away with it, probably because no one has every called them on it. Internet stranger here, but I'd write up a letter with everything you are owed, including paid PTO time and send to the employer. Look at your state and see what penalties they face for not paying on time and include in your notice. Give them a time limit and let them know you will go to your state's DOL to collect after that time. Formal written notice is crucial in this type of situation. I've had it happen twice and each time I received everything I was owed within 24 hours.While I agree with most if this, I have another, more nefarious suggestion. Look up your state's regulations, make up your spreadsheet on what you are owed and then WAIT. It will get a lot more interesting if they violate state law. You don't need the money for this week's groceries, so why not fuck with them right back?
I like the way you think. After fines and penalties, they'll be less likely to screw over the next person. Always try to leave the world a better place as you pass thru it...
I worked for a large manufacturing company based in another state. They believed they could enforce their state laws throughout the country. My state has a different opinion. When the company said vacation time was "use it or lose it", all it took was a couple of firmly worded emails to HR with a few key quotes from my state's employment code. This resulted in new policies that benefited everyone. In the course of this research, it was also discovered that the task of tracking vacation time is the burden of the employer, not the employee.I'm kind of liking this idea. It seems that this is all his local management. She didn't turn in his final time sheet. But I'm wondering if she really told them that he left because he had some PTO hours that need to be paid out (at least I think they have to be paid out, but it's Alabama and it's not exactly the most worker-friendly state) It's really a shame (for them) that one of DH's good childhood friends is an employment attorney. We've already got a call in to her. I'm not sure she can still practice here (just passed the bar in her new state), but she should still have connections in the city where the corporate office is located.I like the way you think. After fines and penalties, they'll be less likely to screw over the next person. Always try to leave the world a better place as you pass thru it...@Sugaree That just sucks. They think they will get away with it, probably because no one has every called them on it. Internet stranger here, but I'd write up a letter with everything you are owed, including paid PTO time and send to the employer. Look at your state and see what penalties they face for not paying on time and include in your notice. Give them a time limit and let them know you will go to your state's DOL to collect after that time. Formal written notice is crucial in this type of situation. I've had it happen twice and each time I received everything I was owed within 24 hours.While I agree with most if this, I have another, more nefarious suggestion. Look up your state's regulations, make up your spreadsheet on what you are owed and then WAIT. It will get a lot more interesting if they violate state law. You don't need the money for this week's groceries, so why not fuck with them right back?
I came for the stories, and then you educated me!Thanks. Musta been an accident.
Well done, @Dicey
I worked for a large manufacturing company based in another state. They believed they could enforce their state laws throughout the country. My state has a different opinion. When the company said vacation time was "use it or lose it", all it took was a couple of firmly worded emails to HR with a few key quotes from my state's employment code. This resulted in new policies that benefited everyone. In the course of this research, it was also discovered that the task of tracking vacation time is the burden of the employer, not the employee.I'm kind of liking this idea. It seems that this is all his local management. She didn't turn in his final time sheet. But I'm wondering if she really told them that he left because he had some PTO hours that need to be paid out (at least I think they have to be paid out, but it's Alabama and it's not exactly the most worker-friendly state) It's really a shame (for them) that one of DH's good childhood friends is an employment attorney. We've already got a call in to her. I'm not sure she can still practice here (just passed the bar in her new state), but she should still have connections in the city where the corporate office is located.I like the way you think. After fines and penalties, they'll be less likely to screw over the next person. Always try to leave the world a better place as you pass thru it...@Sugaree That just sucks. They think they will get away with it, probably because no one has every called them on it. Internet stranger here, but I'd write up a letter with everything you are owed, including paid PTO time and send to the employer. Look at your state and see what penalties they face for not paying on time and include in your notice. Give them a time limit and let them know you will go to your state's DOL to collect after that time. Formal written notice is crucial in this type of situation. I've had it happen twice and each time I received everything I was owed within 24 hours.While I agree with most if this, I have another, more nefarious suggestion. Look up your state's regulations, make up your spreadsheet on what you are owed and then WAIT. It will get a lot more interesting if they violate state law. You don't need the money for this week's groceries, so why not fuck with them right back?
Fast forward a few years. A local colleague, a superstar salesperson for decades, was laid off for reasons that looked suspiciously like ageism. The company's severance package was pretty stingy. He decided to go after them for thirty years of unpaid vacation time. Whoopsie! The company did not have accurate records. He ended up with the severance package he was quite happy with. (This is a FU money story, because he didn't need it. He liked working and was great at his job. He was just pissed that they were kicking him to the curb, and making such a paltry severance offer.)
I'm posting this to show that not every case requires a lawyer. Start by reading up on your state's employment code.
Did we work for the same company? My old company loved the "Use it or lose it", until they realized that it's not allowed in CA. Then they adjusted the rule for us to say that you stop accruing after so much time, and adjusted it for their home state to allow them to carry over 40 hours. Thing is, they often wouldn't allow people to take the time off. In the end, after about 10 years, I think they adjusted it again to not be use or lose in any sense.I worked for a large manufacturing company based in another state. They believed they could enforce their state laws throughout the country. My state has a different opinion. When the company said vacation time was "use it or lose it", all it took was a couple of firmly worded emails to HR with a few key quotes from my state's employment code. This resulted in new policies that benefited everyone. In the course of this research, it was also discovered that the task of tracking vacation time is the burden of the employer, not the employee.I'm kind of liking this idea. It seems that this is all his local management. She didn't turn in his final time sheet. But I'm wondering if she really told them that he left because he had some PTO hours that need to be paid out (at least I think they have to be paid out, but it's Alabama and it's not exactly the most worker-friendly state) It's really a shame (for them) that one of DH's good childhood friends is an employment attorney. We've already got a call in to her. I'm not sure she can still practice here (just passed the bar in her new state), but she should still have connections in the city where the corporate office is located.I like the way you think. After fines and penalties, they'll be less likely to screw over the next person. Always try to leave the world a better place as you pass thru it...@Sugaree That just sucks. They think they will get away with it, probably because no one has every called them on it. Internet stranger here, but I'd write up a letter with everything you are owed, including paid PTO time and send to the employer. Look at your state and see what penalties they face for not paying on time and include in your notice. Give them a time limit and let them know you will go to your state's DOL to collect after that time. Formal written notice is crucial in this type of situation. I've had it happen twice and each time I received everything I was owed within 24 hours.While I agree with most if this, I have another, more nefarious suggestion. Look up your state's regulations, make up your spreadsheet on what you are owed and then WAIT. It will get a lot more interesting if they violate state law. You don't need the money for this week's groceries, so why not fuck with them right back?
Fast forward a few years. A local colleague, a superstar salesperson for decades, was laid off for reasons that looked suspiciously like ageism. The company's severance package was pretty stingy. He decided to go after them for thirty years of unpaid vacation time. Whoopsie! The company did not have accurate records. He ended up with the severance package he was quite happy with. (This is a FU money story, because he didn't need it. He liked working and was great at his job. He was just pissed that they were kicking him to the curb, and making such a paltry severance offer.)
I'm posting this to show that not every case requires a lawyer. Start by reading up on your state's employment code.
A small FU money story I have - sorry I don't have more details, it was a few years back now
DW was working at a local cafe doing... cafe stuff, barista primarily.
The job started out really well and she made some good friends, money was average, not terrible.
But I believe the cafe sold to new management shortly after this.
As soon as this happened things went downhill due to one of the new ladies in charge.
Bad attitude, yelling at employees, unrealistic or non-contract requests, all the standard stuff.
During a pre-opening standup meeting one morning (discuss cafe operations before opening the doors I guess), the new manager was particularly crazy, spouting nonsense about how lazy they all were an so on.
At the time we had about 5 years' expenses in the stash, and we always agreed we'd just bail if this sort of thing started happening.
So she said (paraphrasing) - "I don't need this kinda BS, I have money...".
And walked straight out the door before the morning rush.
She was worried what I would think, but I couldn't have been more proud.
FU money is great
Also people don't leave their jobs, they leave their managers
That's epic enough for me. Well done, @CindyBS!
Week one I thought I could last a year. By week 2 I was sending out resumes. This week went downhill very rapidly.
Not really "epic", but I did have a moment this week.
I started a new job 3 weeks ago that I quickly realized after starting that I had been misled. Week one I thought I could last a year. By week 2 I was sending out resumes. This week went downhill very rapidly. A probably arose, management became very difficult with me - especially when I didn't just become passive and take it. By Wed. night I was very upset about the whole thing. Thursday I worked through a very awkward day. Thursday night I emailed the boss with a letter of resignation effective immediately and never went back.
It took a little time for me to "get over" my work ethic and the idea that what I was doing was wrong, but in the end I wasn't going to take it anymore if I didn't have to.
+1Not really "epic", but I did have a moment this week.
I started a new job 3 weeks ago that I quickly realized after starting that I had been misled. Week one I thought I could last a year. By week 2 I was sending out resumes. This week went downhill very rapidly. A probably arose, management became very difficult with me - especially when I didn't just become passive and take it. By Wed. night I was very upset about the whole thing. Thursday I worked through a very awkward day. Thursday night I emailed the boss with a letter of resignation effective immediately and never went back.
It took a little time for me to "get over" my work ethic and the idea that what I was doing was wrong, but in the end I wasn't going to take it anymore if I didn't have to.
And you were there such a short time that, unless you're applying for a job with a security clearance, you need never mention it on your resume at all.
+1Not really "epic", but I did have a moment this week.And you were there such a short time that, unless you're applying for a job with a security clearance, you need never mention it on your resume at all.
I started a new job 3 weeks ago that I quickly realized after starting that I had been misled. Week one I thought I could last a year. By week 2 I was sending out resumes. This week went downhill very rapidly. A probably arose, management became very difficult with me - especially when I didn't just become passive and take it. By Wed. night I was very upset about the whole thing. Thursday I worked through a very awkward day. Thursday night I emailed the boss with a letter of resignation effective immediately and never went back.
It took a little time for me to "get over" my work ethic and the idea that what I was doing was wrong, but in the end I wasn't going to take it anymore if I didn't have to.
Not really "epic", but I did have a moment this week.This is def epic.
I started a new job 3 weeks ago that I quickly realized after starting that I had been misled. Week one I thought I could last a year. By week 2 I was sending out resumes. This week went downhill very rapidly. A probably arose, management became very difficult with me - especially when I didn't just become passive and take it. By Wed. night I was very upset about the whole thing. Thursday I worked through a very awkward day. Thursday night I emailed the boss with a letter of resignation effective immediately and never went back.
It took a little time for me to "get over" my work ethic and the idea that what I was doing was wrong, but in the end I wasn't going to take it anymore if I didn't have to.
Not really "epic", but I did have a moment this week.I feel like this is just begging for more juicy details...
I started a new job 3 weeks ago that I quickly realized after starting that I had been misled. Week one I thought I could last a year. By week 2 I was sending out resumes. This week went downhill very rapidly. A probably arose, management became very difficult with me - especially when I didn't just become passive and take it. By Wed. night I was very upset about the whole thing. Thursday I worked through a very awkward day. Thursday night I emailed the boss with a letter of resignation effective immediately and never went back.
It took a little time for me to "get over" my work ethic and the idea that what I was doing was wrong, but in the end I wasn't going to take it anymore if I didn't have to.
I thought I'd share an FU money story that is my mom's. She was reliving it again to me, when I finally saw it for what it is: an FU story.
Now, I'll start by saying that mom did not actually have FU money, but she did eventually learn her worth in the market -- and that became her FU currency.
Background: Mom is widowed with 5 children to feed. Money is extremely tight in the household. Certified as a teacher, a teachers' strike makes finding a job impossible, so mom begins baking cakes and selling them to local restaurants. After 5-6 months, she has 4-5 fancy restaurants on her daily rotation. She's making 15-20 cakes and pies per day out of our home kitchen.
One of her restaurants is a mob-run place at a racetrack. She despises working with them because they treat her badly and wait weeks to pay her what she's owed -- very difficult when trying to buy supplies. There is a miscommunication over an error and the big boss mobster fires mom -- but makes the bookkeeper do it. Mom was secretly relieved. The mobsters were not professional and always ran on emotions.
4 days later, the bookkeeper comes sniveling back and says the big boss wants her to come back and bake the desserts again. Mom raises the price on some of her desserts and then says she never wants to have to ask to get paid again. All money is due at delivery or she's taking her cakes with her and never stepping foot inside again.
I was about 11-12 when this happened, and I still remember the worry she had over how to pay bills and how empowered she was when she came home that day after setting her foot down.
Not exactly an FU story, but...
I bailed in January right after the holidays. There were aspects of the job that were very off-putting (travel), but the important parts of the job were interesting and generally worthwhile. The problem was everything else. Endless meetings and conference calls for absolutely no reason. Reams of useless make-work that did nothing but help the officer class substantiate to their superiors that they had firm control over everything.
My direct manager was easily the best I have ever worked for, but like me he was a prisoner of the system. I took pains to give them 2 weeks' notice, make the transition as easy as I could, spent time schooling up someone who could fill in for me and left on cordial terms. To this day I don't think they have any idea why I left.
Not really "epic", but I did have a moment this week.This is def epic.
I started a new job 3 weeks ago that I quickly realized after starting that I had been misled. Week one I thought I could last a year. By week 2 I was sending out resumes. This week went downhill very rapidly. A probably arose, management became very difficult with me - especially when I didn't just become passive and take it. By Wed. night I was very upset about the whole thing. Thursday I worked through a very awkward day. Thursday night I emailed the boss with a letter of resignation effective immediately and never went back.
It took a little time for me to "get over" my work ethic and the idea that what I was doing was wrong, but in the end I wasn't going to take it anymore if I didn't have to.
Not really "epic", but I did have a moment this week.This is def epic.
I started a new job 3 weeks ago that I quickly realized after starting that I had been misled. Week one I thought I could last a year. By week 2 I was sending out resumes. This week went downhill very rapidly. A probably arose, management became very difficult with me - especially when I didn't just become passive and take it. By Wed. night I was very upset about the whole thing. Thursday I worked through a very awkward day. Thursday night I emailed the boss with a letter of resignation effective immediately and never went back.
It took a little time for me to "get over" my work ethic and the idea that what I was doing was wrong, but in the end I wasn't going to take it anymore if I didn't have to.
****UPDATE*****
I am so, so happy I had both the FU money and courage to walk out of that situation.
I just got hired for a different job - same number of hours. Salary is more than twice the salary of the bad job!! :-)
so awesomeNot really "epic", but I did have a moment this week.This is def epic.
I started a new job 3 weeks ago that I quickly realized after starting that I had been misled. Week one I thought I could last a year. By week 2 I was sending out resumes. This week went downhill very rapidly. A probably arose, management became very difficult with me - especially when I didn't just become passive and take it. By Wed. night I was very upset about the whole thing. Thursday I worked through a very awkward day. Thursday night I emailed the boss with a letter of resignation effective immediately and never went back.
It took a little time for me to "get over" my work ethic and the idea that what I was doing was wrong, but in the end I wasn't going to take it anymore if I didn't have to.
****UPDATE*****
I am so, so happy I had both the FU money and courage to walk out of that situation.
I just got hired for a different job - same number of hours. Salary is more than twice the salary of the bad job!! :-)
Posting to follow.
My current employer is reasonable (management goes every which way but my boss and his boss keep us on a more than reasonable track).
The only FU like thing that happened to me was after I got fired from a part-time job in a supermarket (at 17) because the manager claimed he saw me smoking pot in a cafe at night the day before. Which was impossible because I was working at the time he claimed. And since I had to work until 23:00 it was unreasonable to expect me to be back at 6:00. They did this a couple of times even though I said they shouldn't because I was prone to oversleeping, even a special 80dB alarm couldn't wake me.
So I go home, not quite bothered because at 17 I could find a job in 2 days, maybe 3.
I had indeed landed a job after a few interviews at several temp agencies. I was working in a freezer cell, packing premade lunches for 6f an hour (about 3$). When I was done on the first day I walked out and never went back because I got a call to work at McDonalds.
On the plus, I wasn't cold anymore, just hot. On the downside, they paid me 5,50 an hour.
Incidentally, my mom sent a vicious letter to the supermarket corporate after we received a questionnaire because of my resignation. She detailed all the things they did wrong like letti g a minor work past his maximum time, too many hours, ignoring mandatory break time between 2 consecutive shifts (at least 10 hours for a minor).
Everything was in their systems because they used time cards. I walk in a couple of months later and chat with a former coworker. Appearently the team leader, and his assistant (who fired me) had been relocated to locations far away for our standards. We never heard back about the letter to corporate but I suspect they did the transfer because of it.
For me this was a case of principle and I would have taken them to court, regardless of the outcome or cost. They are a fairly big company and know how the rules work. They knowingly transgressed and played ignorant which appearently works and I figured it should stop.
For me this was a case of principle and I would have taken them to court, regardless of the outcome or cost. They are a fairly big company and know how the rules work. They knowingly transgressed and played ignorant which appearently works and I figured it should stop.
On behalf of helpless and downtrodden employees everywhere, thank you. People need to stick together.
Posting up my DW's story. My wife is a preschool teacher at a private center. She's been working for this place since last August, and has been miserable nearly the entire time. She has been labeled by her boss (the owner) as "confrontational". When asked why, she claimed it was because she questioned the practice of the boss sending out a group text each night with the next day's schedule, then requiring everyone in the group text to reply to the group text. They held it against her for not updating the Facebook site for months, even though she told them back in August that she didn't have admin rights and that they needed to grant those to her if they wanted her to update it (never happened). Since she is salaried, any time off had to be made up - fine. But she was only allowed to count certain hours, the majority of the extra time she put in was not considered eligible. The final straw came yesterday though when she was called into her boss' office and told she was being written up for "missing too much time". Her boss had documented all of the time she claimed my wife missed, but would not let her leave with the sheet without signing it. My wife wanted to cross reference it with her own records and refused to sign it, so they finally gave her a copy. She came home at lunch and found numerous errors/discrepancies that she produced documentation for and copied to the back of the sheet (so it couldn't be misplaced). She took it back into her boss and said, "here is the form, I've attached corrections on the back and signed it, and the sheet below it is my resignation". Her boss wouldn't even look at her and just said, "ok". My wife said, "I'll give you two weeks notice, but I will understand if you don't want it and will leave today if you prefer". Her boss, still not looking at her, said "ok". My wife said, "so.... which do you prefer?" and was finally told she'll take the two weeks. It sucks for my wife's coworkers, because the boss won't hire anyone else and will just expect them to fill in for her. She's already gotten a lot of supportive texts from her coworkers and parents, so she feels validated that not everyone thought she was doing a terrible job (even had some tears from some of her coworkers). I feel for them, but DW has to do what's right for her. She already had another job offer, but we could survive indefinitely without her pay. Just glad she finally put an end to putting up with this one's shit!
Posting up my DW's story. My wife is a preschool teacher at a private center. She's been working for this place since last August, and has been miserable nearly the entire time. She has been labeled by her boss (the owner) as "confrontational". When asked why, she claimed it was because she questioned the practice of the boss sending out a group text each night with the next day's schedule, then requiring everyone in the group text to reply to the group text. They held it against her for not updating the Facebook site for months, even though she told them back in August that she didn't have admin rights and that they needed to grant those to her if they wanted her to update it (never happened). Since she is salaried, any time off had to be made up - fine. But she was only allowed to count certain hours, the majority of the extra time she put in was not considered eligible. The final straw came yesterday though when she was called into her boss' office and told she was being written up for "missing too much time". Her boss had documented all of the time she claimed my wife missed, but would not let her leave with the sheet without signing it. My wife wanted to cross reference it with her own records and refused to sign it, so they finally gave her a copy. She came home at lunch and found numerous errors/discrepancies that she produced documentation for and copied to the back of the sheet (so it couldn't be misplaced). She took it back into her boss and said, "here is the form, I've attached corrections on the back and signed it, and the sheet below it is my resignation". Her boss wouldn't even look at her and just said, "ok". My wife said, "I'll give you two weeks notice, but I will understand if you don't want it and will leave today if you prefer". Her boss, still not looking at her, said "ok". My wife said, "so.... which do you prefer?" and was finally told she'll take the two weeks. It sucks for my wife's coworkers, because the boss won't hire anyone else and will just expect them to fill in for her. She's already gotten a lot of supportive texts from her coworkers and parents, so she feels validated that not everyone thought she was doing a terrible job (even had some tears from some of her coworkers). I feel for them, but DW has to do what's right for her. She already had another job offer, but we could survive indefinitely without her pay. Just glad she finally put an end to putting up with this one's shit!
Came here for some inspiration today (after Easter Monday blah's), and realized I have an update for my DW's story. She recently interviewed for and was hired for a part time special education early childhood position at the next town over (less than ten minutes from home). She doesn't start until August, but she's been in touch with the assistant in the room and the current teacher and will go in and job shadow some this spring yet. She was super excited to find a part time position as it allows her to be available for our kids' appointments (orthodontist, etc.) and her mom's appointments (lives with us and has regular doctor visits). She will still have her summers off but be able to have her pay spread over 12 months like a normal teacher - best of both worlds! I'm super happy for her, now just need to find a replacement gig for me... ;)
It's interesting reading this stories. Does this happen because there is no social welfare? do not people receive some kind of support the first months they are jobless?
Inspiring stories. But from a different perspective. They inspire me to encourage my kids to be entrepreneurs. If you work for yourself and hate your boss, then who’s to blame for that?
Inspiring stories. But from a different perspective. They inspire me to encourage my kids to be entrepreneurs. If you work for yourself and hate your boss, then who’s to blame for that?
In that case all your customers/clients are your boss, and FU money could give you the power to say it to one of them and still be able to handle the loss of business.
Inspiring stories. But from a different perspective. They inspire me to encourage my kids to be entrepreneurs. If you work for yourself and hate your boss, then who’s to blame for that?
In that case all your customers/clients are your boss, and FU money could give you the power to say it to one of them and still be able to handle the loss of business.
Inspiring stories. But from a different perspective. They inspire me to encourage my kids to be entrepreneurs. If you work for yourself and hate your boss, then who’s to blame for that?
In that case all your customers/clients are your boss, and FU money could give you the power to say it to one of them and still be able to handle the loss of business.
Agree! We lived in a fancy pants ski resort several years back and owned a small catering/private chef company (mostly just us). The first couple years were super tough, but our last couple years we turned down business. The politician's wife that was just unpleasant and never tipped - we were busy the next couple times she called. The very well known celebrity that called and had multiple requirements for us to be his personal chef - husband told the assistant that it sounded like too much of a hassle and to call someone else. Anyone that called about a wedding - we'd tell them that we were sorry, but we don't cater weddings.
Just to keep this thread going...This is a fantastic story. May you continue to be badass.
Background: I work in a field services organization with two corporate offices in two states. I started working as a data bitch for the CEO at corporate office A before office B was opened near his home, where I was relocated there. I hated the weather and increasingly disliked working for the CEO. He is a smart guy, but prone to outbursts, easily agitated, makes vague requests and is unhappy despite multiple genuine attempts to fulfill them and multiple revisions... and I was treated better than most people there. He also had a severely dysfunctional relationship with the CFO, and we have a new ownership group and new board of directors.
So I politic myself into getting a role leading a department where I knew the current director was about to be fired. The guy they had slated to take over didn't want the job, so it wasn't too hard to get it and a nice raise along with it. Most of the staff was at office A, but I would stay at office B. I have frequently gossiped with the CFOs minion about what a nutcase the CEO is, and it must have gotten back to the CFO. We wind up having drinks.
CFO: Won't you do a better job in office A?
Me: Yes, but CEO, I'm a wussy pants, waah waah
CFO: If you want to move to office A, I will make it happen.
Me: How?
CFO: I'll tell CEO, Monte is moving to office A. That's it.
Me: What if CEO flips out and wants to fire me?
CFO: I won't let that happen.
I did want to move. Better weather (gulf summers suck, omg, give me northern winter any day over gulf summer), friends, no pyscho bosses. But I was worried. I thought the CFO was using me to weaken the CEO, I figured I would now be considered politically aligned with CFO and an enemy of the state. But I also had a big stash of FU money, even though I didn't think of it that way.
I think it over a few weeks and tell CFO I want to move. The CEOs right hand man calls me in for a chat, which was awkward but polite. A few months later I am relocated back to office A. Life continues, no drama or fallout.
I got a little worried when the board shot the CFO, figuring that may spell the end for me. But then I remembered - I have an EVEN BIGGER FU stash than I had before.
So far no fallout. I've seen the CEO a couple times since then. He's kind of forgot about me. If you're not in his presence on a daily basis, you basically don't exist. Which is pretty f'ing awesome right now. I'm flying under the radar, making tons of $$$ and stashing it. I'm working my ass off, but my overworked boss back in office B barely has time to oversee anything I do. I basically run autonomously and can get shit done the right way for a company that has been good to me, but also am secure that I can walk out or get shot anytime and still be okay.
+1. I had to explain this phenomenon to my gf, she didn't know it was a Thing. We went to a dueling piano and rowdy country bar with a cover and bathroom attendant. Who would think those could all be the same place??
Go to the bathroom. See that there is a bathroom attendant. Sigh. Do your business. Approach the sink. Guy turns on water...um, ok. Wet your hands. Guy points soap thing at you and squeezes it out into your hand...um, ok. Wash your hands. Guy turns off water, I guess he thinks I had enough...um, ok. Guy gives you paper towels...um, ok. Mumble "thanks" and run while avoiding eye contact and a tip.
Of course this is with 10 other guys in the bathroom shuffling around each other. Oh, and as mentioned, there's this big thing of cologne and candy to choose from.
The whole thing is cringe-worthy. Won't be going back there anytime soon. /r
I think I remember reading this somewhere here but it is a great reminder to get the FU money going immediately in life.
https://www.thebillfold.com/2016/01/a-story-of-a-fuck-off-fund/
I think I remember reading this somewhere here but it is a great reminder to get the FU money going immediately in life.
https://www.thebillfold.com/2016/01/a-story-of-a-fuck-off-fund/
That’s a nice story. One I might read to DD. Without the profanity; it’s a Freedom Unlimited fund after all.😁
I think I remember reading this somewhere here but it is a great reminder to get the FU money going immediately in life.
https://www.thebillfold.com/2016/01/a-story-of-a-fuck-off-fund/
That’s a nice story. One I might read to DD. Without the profanity; it’s a Freedom Unlimited fund after all.😁
Nice! Every young woman needs to read that.
The whole thing is cringe-worthy. Won't be going back there anytime soon. /r
I'm not Christian, but I didn't realize that men who wear their Christian religions on their sleeves looked down on women. I thought that would be somehow... not Christ-like? FascinatingLike most faiths, a lot of what goes on in the name of "religion" is really just old tribal values propagating themselves into new generations. The actual tenets of the religion are largely forgotten in favor of the cultural norms that people grew up with, which get conflated with "good Christian1 values" from an early age . This is a prime example of how children learn by what those around them do, more than what they say.
(1 insert name of religion here)
Y’all are painting with broad brushes. It all depends on the Christian (or Buddhist, or Hindu, or Muslim, or what have you.) People use all sorts of reasons for excusing their misbehavior.
I’m not much into “wearing my Christianity on my sleeve” however the sort of blanket statements that Christians are sexist, misogynist, backbiting, hypocritical, or intrinsically evil really do become tedious after awhile.
Can we please not devolve this thread into an argument about religion
The whole thing is cringe-worthy. Won't be going back there anytime soon. /r
OTOH, I've been to many places, mostly in Europe, where bathroom attendants are not cringe-worthy and not part of a would-be "classy" decor. The vibe is more janitor than Jeeves. They clean the toilet and wipe the sink after each customer.
But I've also been to one where part of the attendant's job was to hand each visitor a few sheets of toilet paper. I've always wondered what happens if you discover you need more....
Minor story to keep this thread on the first page:
My wife is finishing her fifth year as an elementary teacher. She, from my biased perspective, has done a good job. Her students do well, parents don't complain about her, and she has helped to integrate more technology use in the school. When asked what she would like to do next year, she requested that she remain in the same grade, teaching the same subject. Despite this, she was told yesterday (on teacher appreciation day no less) that she will be moving grades for the third time since she has been there. She came home in tears because she felt like the principals have no confidence in her teaching abilities. In the past, administration has moved teachers around as a means to get bad teachers to quit (easier than firing). The principals specifically told her that was not the reason she was being moved, but their actions speak louder than their words to me. Add to that the fact that every time you change grades, you have to get age appropriate resources for your new classroom, often with your own money. So she spent the evening in tears, not because of something a student did or something a parent said, but because she feels that her bosses have no confidence in her abilities.
I was able to convince her to go in today and tell them how she feels. Thanks to our FU money, she doesn't have to worry about losing her job, which gave her the confidence she needed to express her feelings regarding their decision. While she will still be moving, they will be working to get her additional grants to supply her new classroom with resources, and they are aware that another move will result in my wife quitting the job (though we would wait until the end of the summer to tell them as a final FU).
I wish I could convince her to walk away now, but she is terrified of change. She actually teaches at the same elementary school that she went to as a child. The only way she will leave this job is if it is to become a stay-at-home mom. We could afford that, but I'd rather not have to stop all retirement contributions for her to do so.
Although we don't yet have significant FU money in terms of savings/investments, the financial remodeling we've done on the expenses side since joining the MMM philosophy has made it possible for us to go single-income indefinitely and allowed her to upskill herself and fast-track her career when she's ready to do so.
In the past, administration has moved teachers around as a means to get bad teachers to quit (easier than firing). The principals specifically told her that was not the reason she was being moved, but their actions speak louder than their words to me.I know a few educators, and their biggest problems always stem from administration, whether it be on the school level, school district level, or state level. The constant micromanaging and lack of trust has led many a teacher to resign.
Minor story to keep this thread on the first page:
My wife is finishing her fifth year as an elementary teacher. She, from my biased perspective, has done a good job. Her students do well, parents don't complain about her, and she has helped to integrate more technology use in the school. When asked what she would like to do next year, she requested that she remain in the same grade, teaching the same subject. Despite this, she was told yesterday (on teacher appreciation day no less) that she will be moving grades for the third time since she has been there. She came home in tears because she felt like the principals have no confidence in her teaching abilities. In the past, administration has moved teachers around as a means to get bad teachers to quit (easier than firing). The principals specifically told her that was not the reason she was being moved, but their actions speak louder than their words to me. Add to that the fact that every time you change grades, you have to get age appropriate resources for your new classroom, often with your own money. So she spent the evening in tears, not because of something a student did or something a parent said, but because she feels that her bosses have no confidence in her abilities.
I was able to convince her to go in today and tell them how she feels. Thanks to our FU money, she doesn't have to worry about losing her job, which gave her the confidence she needed to express her feelings regarding their decision. While she will still be moving, they will be working to get her additional grants to supply her new classroom with resources, and they are aware that another move will result in my wife quitting the job (though we would wait until the end of the summer to tell them as a final FU).
I wish I could convince her to walk away now, but she is terrified of change. She actually teaches at the same elementary school that she went to as a child. The only way she will leave this job is if it is to become a stay-at-home mom. We could afford that, but I'd rather not have to stop all retirement contributions for her to do so.
I can think of one teacher who went from 2nd to 3rd to 2nd. One that went from 2nd to 5th. One that went from K to 3rd. Two veteran teachers that basically swapped (4th/5th). Plus we've ended up with partial classes the last 3 years - like combo K/1st or combo 5th/6th. They try not to make the same teacher do a combo 2 years in a row, because it's hard. It's not uncommon and doesn't mean they don't like her. It is very stressful though.
I can think of one teacher who went from 2nd to 3rd to 2nd. One that went from 2nd to 5th. One that went from K to 3rd. Two veteran teachers that basically swapped (4th/5th). Plus we've ended up with partial classes the last 3 years - like combo K/1st or combo 5th/6th. They try not to make the same teacher do a combo 2 years in a row, because it's hard. It's not uncommon and doesn't mean they don't like her. It is very stressful though.
She has gone 5th to 2nd to 5th and now back to 2nd. At five years in, she may be junior, but she isn't even the most junior person in her current grade.
I think I remember reading this somewhere here but it is a great reminder to get the FU money going immediately in life.
https://www.thebillfold.com/2016/01/a-story-of-a-fuck-off-fund/
That’s a nice story. One I might read to DD. Without the profanity; it’s a Freedom Unlimited fund after all.😁
Nice! Every young woman needs to read that.
It’s a great story. I told it to my DD as a bedtime story, with appropriate editing of course. 😁
If you're FI, then she has the ability to go in on the first day of class and walk in to administration and give them a choice......"put me back in the grade I had or I am done right now. You know I wanted to stay in my grade and moved me anyways. I don't care what the logistics are....you have 5 seconds.". And then, after 5 seconds, walk out and go home.
... she was told yesterday (on teacher appreciation day no less) that she will be moving grades for the third time since she has been there. ...
... she was told yesterday (on teacher appreciation day no less) that she will be moving grades for the third time since she has been there. ...
I do not have any credible sources to back this up ... but I heard from some friends who are teachers (k-5 in the US) that if you are a new teacher to a grade then you get a "pass" if your students' average on state standardized tests was below state goals. Thus, principals in underperforming schools (due to a variety of potential reasons), would frequently switch teachers among grades in order to never get in trouble with the district/state.
No source for this, but this was one reason a co-worker's spouse believed why 90% of his elementary school's teachers were shifted to new grades every few years.
... she was told yesterday (on teacher appreciation day no less) that she will be moving grades for the third time since she has been there. ...
I do not have any credible sources to back this up ... but I heard from some friends who are teachers (k-5 in the US) that if you are a new teacher to a grade then you get a "pass" if your students' average on state standardized tests was below state goals. Thus, principals in underperforming schools (due to a variety of potential reasons), would frequently switch teachers among grades in order to never get in trouble with the district/state.
No source for this, but this was one reason a co-worker's spouse believed why 90% of his elementary school's teachers were shifted to new grades every few years.
And then teachers at 'underperforming' schools get to equip their classrooms at their own cost every few years, and therefore ensure that there are fewer resources (because what you accululate over 20 years doesn't match what you accumulate over 2 years...)... and then we wonder why, with new teachers, less funding, and fewer resources, it continues to underperform. I wonder. I have no idea. Someone run a study on this.
I'm not sure if this is an epic FU money story or a MPP (Mustachian People Problem), but I always wanted my own FU money story, so here goes...
I've been unhappy with some things at work. I threatened to retire early. I was serious. I got some things fixed and a raise.
I'm not sure if this is an epic FU money story or a MPP (Mustachian People Problem), but I always wanted my own FU money story, so here goes...
I've been unhappy with some things at work. I threatened to retire early. I was serious. I got some things fixed and a raise.
Regardless of classification, I'd call that Epic. Well done :)
My FU money empowered me to go to HR and report a Sr. Mgr who was insulting the women on the team, but the final straw was when he told a meek-mannered Indian woman, "don't expect to get a day off to celebrate Diwali...you're in America now!!!"
I also brought about 10-pages of notes of past events that gave insight to the overall mismanagement and toxic culture of the organization. It is seriously a case study for the toxic masculinity of tech companies.
That Sr. Mgr was promoted to Director of another org, my direct manager was fired, and ultimately the toxic culture continues with the other bullies who remain in their positions.
I still work there because it's close to home, but I am saving furiously so that once I leave, I can be done for good.
^Epic story right there
My ex-boss' son, who I will call Snotty McStuffington IV, knew I'd been cheated out of some commissions. One day he said in an email that, ".....you don't have to be a baby about it."
My written reply was, "Go fuck yourself. I mean that literally. Next time you're fucking yourself, you should know that you've earned it."
A month later I gave notice. The boss asked me to not say anything until after Christmas to prevent the other employees from worrying, and that my only job for the following 6 weeks was to secure another job if I didn't already have one.
I received a Christmas bonus, 6 weeks pay to job search, and did some "business travel" where I caught up with a buddy I'd not seen in 8 years.
Regarding Snotty McStuffington IV, we don't keep in touch.
My ex-boss' son, who I will call Snotty McStuffington IV, knew I'd been cheated out of some commissions. One day he said in an email that, ".....you don't have to be a baby about it."
My written reply was, "Go fuck yourself. I mean that literally. Next time you're fucking yourself, you should know that you've earned it."
A month later I gave notice. The boss asked me to not say anything until after Christmas to prevent the other employees from worrying, and that my only job for the following 6 weeks was to secure another job if I didn't already have one.
I received a Christmas bonus, 6 weeks pay to job search, and did some "business travel" where I caught up with a buddy I'd not seen in 8 years.
Regarding Snotty McStuffington IV, we don't keep in touch.
How did ex-boss (presumably Snotty McStuffington III) not have any irritation at you for such a blunt response?
a)didn't care/ wanted to do the same,but couldn't because of family
b) wasn't told by Snotty McStuffington IV because of ???
and why the wait to "prevent the other employees from worrying"? Not understanding that at all. Quit is quit, not layoff/fired.
Adding another story:
I was ghostwriting a book for a best-selling author [how to land that gig explained below]. Now, I'm not FI, but I have passive income that is very helpful, so I can afford to negotiate a deal like this: I will work as much as it takes to create a high-quality product to your liking for royalties with no limit.
"Do you need an advance?" he asked. "Monthly pay?"
"Nope. Just the chance to show you what I've got."
For the next 16 months we ended up writing what I consider to be 3 versions of the book, which could have been 3 overlapping products (not uncommon in the self-help business). At the end of it he said he wasn't happy, and asked to settle up.
I said, "You owe me nothing."
"No," he said, "you've put your heart and soul into this. I have to pay you something. How about $10,000, or if you can wait, $25,000 on first royalties."
"But there won't be any royalties," because I failed.
At this there was a silence, and he filled it by saying "But who will own the intellectual property?"
"There won't be any. But if you find some content you can use, I'll get a percentage of the original royalty deal."
"Look," he said, "I want to reward your efforts, so think it over and let me know."
My estimate was that I would make $300,000 off the book, so I emailed him a long analysis that settled on
(a) $50k today, or
(b) $25k today with another $50k on royalties over the first 100,000 copies sold.
We had some back and forth. He concluded by saying his offer of $10k was generous, and that I was greedy.
I said, "Let's go back to our original deal, dated xx/xx/xxxx," where I got paid only if something I created was used in the final product.
Maybe I was just stubborn to let go of the bird in the hand, but the truth is that I didn't need $10k. I take that home about every 4 weeks. What I wanted was a best-seller and $300k, preferably 5x over. He has not released a book since before we worked together.
[How to land that gig]
I shot gunned it - contacting publishers, agents, authors, athletes, pretty much anyone - trying to sell something else I'd written. This guy didn't get back to me, so I followed up twice and we had an hour-long conversation that concluded with him asking if I'd consider writing an updated version of a previous best-seller about how the web is going to make billions!. We ended up creating nothing, but I'm still trying.
Adding another story:
I was ghostwriting a book for a best-selling author [how to land that gig explained below]. Now, I'm not FI, but I have passive income that is very helpful, so I can afford to negotiate a deal like this: I will work as much as it takes to create a high-quality product to your liking for royalties with no limit.
"Do you need an advance?" he asked. "Monthly pay?"
"Nope. Just the chance to show you what I've got."
For the next 16 months we ended up writing what I consider to be 3 versions of the book, which could have been 3 overlapping products (not uncommon in the self-help business). At the end of it he said he wasn't happy, and asked to settle up.
I said, "You owe me nothing."
"No," he said, "you've put your heart and soul into this. I have to pay you something. How about $10,000, or if you can wait, $25,000 on first royalties."
"But there won't be any royalties," because I failed.
At this there was a silence, and he filled it by saying "But who will own the intellectual property?"
"There won't be any. But if you find some content you can use, I'll get a percentage of the original royalty deal."
"Look," he said, "I want to reward your efforts, so think it over and let me know."
My estimate was that I would make $300,000 off the book, so I emailed him a long analysis that settled on
(a) $50k today, or
(b) $25k today with another $50k on royalties over the first 100,000 copies sold.
We had some back and forth. He concluded by saying his offer of $10k was generous, and that I was greedy.
I said, "Let's go back to our original deal, dated xx/xx/xxxx," where I got paid only if something I created was used in the final product.
Maybe I was just stubborn to let go of the bird in the hand, but the truth is that I didn't need $10k. I take that home about every 4 weeks. What I wanted was a best-seller and $300k, preferably 5x over. He has not released a book since before we worked together.
[How to land that gig]
I shot gunned it - contacting publishers, agents, authors, athletes, pretty much anyone - trying to sell something else I'd written. This guy didn't get back to me, so I followed up twice and we had an hour-long conversation that concluded with him asking if I'd consider writing an updated version of a previous best-seller about how the web is going to make billions!. We ended up creating nothing, but I'm still trying.
Have I missed something? You worked for 16 months and got nothing for it..... because you were holding out for the big score.... that hasn't come.
Adding another story:
I was ghostwriting a book for a best-selling author.....................
Have I missed something? You worked for 16 months and got nothing for it..... because you were holding out for the big score.... that hasn't come.
Have I missed something? You worked for 16 months and got nothing for it..... because you were holding out for the big score.... that hasn't come.
And I would take actions to be able to prove Mr. Big Shot plagiarized the work product when he releases his own, royalty free version later. Copyright infringement can be lucrative if the person doing it has the money to pay.QuoteHave I missed something? You worked for 16 months and got nothing for it..... because you were holding out for the big score.... that hasn't come.
If I were the cynical type I would say that Mr. Big Shot DID like the finished product and was trying to cut his ghostwriter out on the cheap.
And I would take actions to be able to prove Mr. Big Shot plagiarized the work product when he releases his own, royalty free version later. Copyright infringement can be lucrative if the person doing it has the money to pay.QuoteHave I missed something? You worked for 16 months and got nothing for it..... because you were holding out for the big score.... that hasn't come.
If I were the cynical type I would say that Mr. Big Shot DID like the finished product and was trying to cut his ghostwriter out on the cheap.
I guess I don't understand the writing business, but I'd be pretty pissed if I didn't get paid for 16 months worth of work.
That $10k is "insignificant" seems to be missing the point. If there are never any royalties, you worked for free. This wasn't a "I'm not working for only $10k because I'm worth $300k" The work was already done.
But maybe that's just how that entire industry works?
QuoteHave I missed something? You worked for 16 months and got nothing for it..... because you were holding out for the big score.... that hasn't come.
If I were the cynical type I would say that Mr. Big Shot DID like the finished product and was trying to cut his ghostwriter out on the cheap.
I think he challenged the guy instead of taking a crappy deal. The chance at $300k (including possible collection re infringement) was worth more than $10k in hand. Because he haz FU $.
Epic!!
I think he challenged the guy instead of taking a crappy deal. The chance at $300k (including possible collection re infringement) was worth more than $10k in hand. Because he haz FU $.
Epic!!
Thanks! You are correct. While I am not rich, I have some cushion via passive income, and a fairly paid profession.
I felt suspicious of this offer, and while $10k is not nothing, it's like nothing for all of the work I did, especially if my work was good enough in the end, which seemed possible based on our discussions.
I think he challenged the guy instead of taking a crappy deal. The chance at $300k (including possible collection re infringement) was worth more than $10k in hand. Because he haz FU $.
Epic!!
Thanks! You are correct. While I am not rich, I have some cushion via passive income, and a fairly paid profession.
I felt suspicious of this offer, and while $10k is not nothing, it's like nothing for all of the work I did, especially if my work was good enough in the end, which seemed possible based on our discussions.
I'm curious, why don't you just tell him he owes you nothing, you'll keep the IP rights, and try to publish it under your own name?
I'm imagine the total value is lower without the "brand name" attached, but maybe it could increase the value of your own personal brand.
Copied from my journal.
So our Executive Director came in my office and told me she wanted to take on a 'leadership role' now that my supervisor was leaving. I said I would need the title of interim director and the according pay. She immediately shot that down. When I said that wouldn't work for me she started threatening me with double speak and dog whistles. I decided life is too short to put up with that crap and sent HR my two weeks notice.
I have some money saved and a part time job. But if anyone wants to buy one of my short stories, here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CKSBZT1
Copied from my journal.
So our Executive Director came in my office and told me she wanted to take on a 'leadership role' now that my supervisor was leaving. I said I would need the title of interim director and the according pay. She immediately shot that down. When I said that wouldn't work for me she started threatening me with double speak and dog whistles. I decided life is too short to put up with that crap and sent HR my two weeks notice.
I have some money saved and a part time job. But if anyone wants to buy one of my short stories, here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CKSBZT1
Just an update. I spent the last few months bumming around, working as a waitress (and filling a $15,000 wholesale order for that business), reading a lot of books about Venice, Istanbul, and the Medicis, getting certified as a Stand Up Paddleboarding instructor, dating a bit, and volunteering. The library where I volunteer hired me. I start on Monday. The position is part time, but it's enough to pay my bills, and I'll be back in the state retirement system (which I didn't know when I applied!). My funds are at roughly the same place they were when I left, and I'm saving for a trip to Malta. This sabbatical turned out really well for me! :3
Copied from my journal.
So our Executive Director came in my office and told me she wanted to take on a 'leadership role' now that my supervisor was leaving. I said I would need the title of interim director and the according pay. She immediately shot that down. When I said that wouldn't work for me she started threatening me with double speak and dog whistles. I decided life is too short to put up with that crap and sent HR my two weeks notice.
I have some money saved and a part time job. But if anyone wants to buy one of my short stories, here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CKSBZT1
Just an update. I spent the last few months bumming around, working as a waitress (and filling a $15,000 wholesale order for that business), reading a lot of books about Venice, Istanbul, and the Medicis, getting certified as a Stand Up Paddleboarding instructor, dating a bit, and volunteering. The library where I volunteer hired me. I start on Monday. The position is part time, but it's enough to pay my bills, and I'll be back in the state retirement system (which I didn't know when I applied!). My funds are at roughly the same place they were when I left, and I'm saving for a trip to Malta. This sabbatical turned out really well for me! :3
Copied from my journal.
So our Executive Director came in my office and told me she wanted to take on a 'leadership role' now that my supervisor was leaving. I said I would need the title of interim director and the according pay. She immediately shot that down. When I said that wouldn't work for me she started threatening me with double speak and dog whistles. I decided life is too short to put up with that crap and sent HR my two weeks notice.
I have some money saved and a part time job. But if anyone wants to buy one of my short stories, here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CKSBZT1
Just an update. I spent the last few months bumming around, working as a waitress (and filling a $15,000 wholesale order for that business), reading a lot of books about Venice, Istanbul, and the Medicis, getting certified as a Stand Up Paddleboarding instructor, dating a bit, and volunteering. The library where I volunteer hired me. I start on Monday. The position is part time, but it's enough to pay my bills, and I'll be back in the state retirement system (which I didn't know when I applied!). My funds are at roughly the same place they were when I left, and I'm saving for a trip to Malta. This sabbatical turned out really well for me! :3
I think he challenged the guy instead of taking a crappy deal. The chance at $300k (including possible collection re infringement) was worth more than $10k in hand. Because he haz FU $.
Epic!!
Thanks! You are correct. While I am not rich, I have some cushion via passive income, and a fairly paid profession.
I felt suspicious of this offer, and while $10k is not nothing, it's like nothing for all of the work I did, especially if my work was good enough in the end, which seemed possible based on our discussions.
I'm curious, why don't you just tell him he owes you nothing, you'll keep the IP rights, and try to publish it under your own name?
I'm imagine the total value is lower without the "brand name" attached, but maybe it could increase the value of your own personal brand.
I'm guessing he does not have a right to publish, only to a part of the royalties.
Can you share more details about how your Executive Director reacted when she found out you gave notice? The story doesn't need it...I'm just a nosy Nellie!
I guess I don't understand the writing business, but I'd be pretty pissed if I didn't get paid for 16 months worth of work.
That $10k is "insignificant" seems to be missing the point. If there are never any royalties, you worked for free. This wasn't a "I'm not working for only $10k because I'm worth $300k" The work was already done.
But maybe that's just how that entire industry works?
That is completely understandable. For me, writing is something I pursue as an all-or-nothing venture. I want unlimited royalties only, and am willing to make nothing if that's how it goes down. I have also edited work for free, if I truly enjoy the book, and like the person.
To start, this author asked me what kind of deal I wanted, and he agreed to royalties only, with no limit. If we sold 1,000,000 copies, which was his average, it would have come to $300k.
I guess I don't understand the writing business, but I'd be pretty pissed if I didn't get paid for 16 months worth of work.
That $10k is "insignificant" seems to be missing the point. If there are never any royalties, you worked for free. This wasn't a "I'm not working for only $10k because I'm worth $300k" The work was already done.
But maybe that's just how that entire industry works?
That is completely understandable. For me, writing is something I pursue as an all-or-nothing venture. I want unlimited royalties only, and am willing to make nothing if that's how it goes down. I have also edited work for free, if I truly enjoy the book, and like the person.
To start, this author asked me what kind of deal I wanted, and he agreed to royalties only, with no limit. If we sold 1,000,000 copies, which was his average, it would have come to $300k.
I’d add, for people like A Fella from Stella, that the deal you took would be considered a terrible deal for most professional ghostwriters. Books, even by people with good track records, can tank for a thousand different reasons. Maybe the self-help guy gets caught in a scandal or another book by someone even bigger in that space is released on the same topic right before the one you worked on comes out, and sales are basically zero. It’s a huge gamble on your part, with the potential for getting nothing. I get that’s the point of the post in this thread, but I feel like we need to make it clear to people browsing this thread with no background in the industry that, ninty-nine times out of a hundred, a ghostwriter would turn down this deal (sometimes with extreme prejudice).
Can you share more details about how your Executive Director reacted when she found out you gave notice? The story doesn't need it...I'm just a nosy Nellie!
I'd like to know as well.
Great job.
Can you share more details about how your Executive Director reacted when she found out you gave notice? The story doesn't need it...I'm just a nosy Nellie!
I'd like to know as well.
Great job.
Thanks y’all!
She wasn’t used to people telling her no...................
Copied from my journal.
So our Executive Director came in my office and told me she wanted to take on a 'leadership role' now that my supervisor was leaving. I said I would need the title of interim director and the according pay. She immediately shot that down. When I said that wouldn't work for me she started threatening me with double speak and dog whistles. I decided life is too short to put up with that crap and sent HR my two weeks notice.
I have some money saved and a part time job. But if anyone wants to buy one of my short stories, here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CKSBZT1
Just an update. I spent the last few months bumming around, working as a waitress (and filling a $15,000 wholesale order for that business), reading a lot of books about Venice, Istanbul, and the Medicis, getting certified as a Stand Up Paddleboarding instructor, dating a bit, and volunteering. The library where I volunteer hired me. I start on Monday. The position is part time, but it's enough to pay my bills, and I'll be back in the state retirement system (which I didn't know when I applied!). My funds are at roughly the same place they were when I left, and I'm saving for a trip to Malta. This sabbatical turned out really well for me! :3
Copied from my journal.
So our Executive Director came in my office and told me she wanted to take on a 'leadership role' now that my supervisor was leaving. I said I would need the title of interim director and the according pay. She immediately shot that down. When I said that wouldn't work for me she started threatening me with double speak and dog whistles. I decided life is too short to put up with that crap and sent HR my two weeks notice.
I have some money saved and a part time job. But if anyone wants to buy one of my short stories, here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CKSBZT1
Just an update. I spent the last few months bumming around, working as a waitress (and filling a $15,000 wholesale order for that business), reading a lot of books about Venice, Istanbul, and the Medicis, getting certified as a Stand Up Paddleboarding instructor, dating a bit, and volunteering. The library where I volunteer hired me. I start on Monday. The position is part time, but it's enough to pay my bills, and I'll be back in the state retirement system (which I didn't know when I applied!). My funds are at roughly the same place they were when I left, and I'm saving for a trip to Malta. This sabbatical turned out really well for me! :3
Can you share more details about how your Executive Director reacted when she found out you gave notice? The story doesn't need it...I'm just a nosy Nellie!
I'd like to know as well.
Great job.
Thanks y’all!
She wasn’t used to people telling her no...................
Thanks for sharing. You did a great thing by sparing yourself.
Will you use the documentation for any legal action? It sounds to me like you have grounds to at least make a small claim if you wanted to DIY.
I thought about it and spoke to family and friends who are lawyers. They all said it was ‘she-said, she-said’, legal action would take 1-3 years, be very expensive, and there was no guarantee of an outcome in my favor. That didn’t sound like a good way to spend my time, and honestly, I was just exhausted after dealing with that lunacy. There were no spoons left.
I thought about it and spoke to family and friends who are lawyers. They all said it was ‘she-said, she-said’, legal action would take 1-3 years, be very expensive, and there was no guarantee of an outcome in my favor. That didn’t sound like a good way to spend my time, and honestly, I was just exhausted after dealing with that lunacy. There were no spoons left.
Years ago after getting fired from from a job.........................To be honest, I was quite satisfied with hearing the outcome. And I didn't have to spend money or go through legal hassles. Maybe @Warlord1986 you will have the same satisfaction.
I thought about it and spoke to family and friends who are lawyers. They all said it was ‘she-said, she-said’, legal action would take 1-3 years, be very expensive, and there was no guarantee of an outcome in my favor. That didn’t sound like a good way to spend my time, and honestly, I was just exhausted after dealing with that lunacy. There were no spoons left.
Years ago after getting fired from from a job.........................To be honest, I was quite satisfied with hearing the outcome. And I didn't have to spend money or go through legal hassles. Maybe @Warlord1986 you will have the same satisfaction.
Referring to bad bosses, you cannot screw so many people and not have it come back on you in some way. Not because of magical karma, but because of non-magical people.
To quote "The Big Lebowski," This is what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass. Only this isn't a stranger. This is someone who WILL definitely have something on you eventually because they see you everyday.
Wow! Did you ever learn what happened to the guy with the new baby?I thought about it and spoke to family and friends who are lawyers. They all said it was ‘she-said, she-said’, legal action would take 1-3 years, be very expensive, and there was no guarantee of an outcome in my favor. That didn’t sound like a good way to spend my time, and honestly, I was just exhausted after dealing with that lunacy. There were no spoons left.
Years ago after getting fired from from a job.........................To be honest, I was quite satisfied with hearing the outcome. And I didn't have to spend money or go through legal hassles. Maybe @Warlord1986 you will have the same satisfaction.
Referring to bad bosses, you cannot screw so many people and not have it come back on you in some way. Not because of magical karma, but because of non-magical people.
To quote "The Big Lebowski," This is what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass. Only this isn't a stranger. This is someone who WILL definitely have something on you eventually because they see you everyday.
Yep, and eventually you mess with the wrong person.
She had a pattern of cycling through people, as I learned after I was hired, which troubled me. But a lot of coworkers bought into her reasons/excuses.....until she fired me. After I left, I heard those same coworkers were shocked that she canned me, I was well-liked and respected and it seemed to be the tipping point where people started to think that maybe, just maybe the problem was her. What happened after I left: she trained her sights on another person who quit before she could get fired. After that, she yanked someone from another department over to hers because she was short-staffed, the person was unwilling to go after seeing what happened to me, but ex-boss forced the issue knowing that person was a single mom and needed the job. Six months after my departure, she moved yet another person over to her dept into a position similar to mine.
The organization was in bad financial shape, the CFO had quit along with the senior VP who was tagged as the person to succeed the President/CEO who was a year away from retiring. New executive comes on board to help right the ship and it's this person that ex-boss starts to fight with. One issue was that ex-boss' mom came in a couple of times a week to help, new executive says can't have nepotism so mom had to go, pissing off ex-boss. She predictably cycles through another person in her department, firing him a week after his wife had a baby. I heard he was super pissed and he did not go quietly, it was shortly after this that she got canned along with most of her staff. She made the critical mistake of fighting with this key person when she knew all her protectors were retiring. Then again, maybe he already got wind of her antics. One time I had to talk to him to make arrangements to transfer my 403b money and he knew who I was.
I thought about it and spoke to family and friends who are lawyers. They all said it was ‘she-said, she-said’, legal action would take 1-3 years, be very expensive, and there was no guarantee of an outcome in my favor. That didn’t sound like a good way to spend my time, and honestly, I was just exhausted after dealing with that lunacy. There were no spoons left.
Years ago after getting fired from from a job.........................To be honest, I was quite satisfied with hearing the outcome. And I didn't have to spend money or go through legal hassles. Maybe @Warlord1986 you will have the same satisfaction.
Referring to bad bosses, you cannot screw so many people and not have it come back on you in some way. Not because of magical karma, but because of non-magical people.
To quote "The Big Lebowski," This is what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass. Only this isn't a stranger. This is someone who WILL definitely have something on you eventually because they see you everyday.
<snip for brevity> She predictably cycles through another person in her department, firing him a week after his wife had a baby. I heard he was super pissed and he did not go quietly, it was shortly after this that she got canned along with most of her staff.<snip>
Wow! Did you ever learn what happened to the guy with the new baby?
I thought about it and spoke to family and friends who are lawyers. They all said it was ‘she-said, she-said’, legal action would take 1-3 years, be very expensive, and there was no guarantee of an outcome in my favor. That didn’t sound like a good way to spend my time, and honestly, I was just exhausted after dealing with that lunacy. There were no spoons left.
Years ago after getting fired from from a job.........................To be honest, I was quite satisfied with hearing the outcome. And I didn't have to spend money or go through legal hassles. Maybe @Warlord1986 you will have the same satisfaction.
Referring to bad bosses, you cannot screw so many people and not have it come back on you in some way. Not because of magical karma, but because of non-magical people.
To quote "The Big Lebowski," This is what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass. Only this isn't a stranger. This is someone who WILL definitely have something on you eventually because they see you everyday.
Yep, and eventually you mess with the wrong person.
She had a pattern of cycling through people..............................
And she is counting down the days until her retirement.
Now, these pagers would be totally useless because we (a) wrote really good code so there just weren't many defects that users had to deal with and (b) the only consistent problems users faced were network related, not program related. So we would spend our time tracking down networking people. My immediate thought was that the users could do that with -- drum roll please -- giving the network people the pagers.Wow that is arrogant. On your side, not the bosses.
So I looked my boss in the eye and said, very deliberately, "When I and my programmers write such bad code that we need to carry pagers, **I** will find another line of work." And then I said nothing more, I just looked at him.
Now, these pagers would be totally useless because we (a) wrote really good code so there just weren't many defects that users had to deal with and (b) the only consistent problems users faced were network related, not program related. So we would spend our time tracking down networking people. My immediate thought was that the users could do that with -- drum roll please -- giving the network people the pagers.Wow that is arrogant. On your side, not the bosses.
So I looked my boss in the eye and said, very deliberately, "When I and my programmers write such bad code that we need to carry pagers, **I** will find another line of work." And then I said nothing more, I just looked at him.
To be fair: pager duty would require additional compensation, but no one writes flawless code and if you want systems without downtime pagers are the only way that has been shown to work.
Sword Guy, I work indirectly with people who write code that I have to use and OMG I wish they were half as competent as you sound! I do testing when new code is added, and despite the extensive testing there are always huge problems in production. We are dealing with a production problem that takes up to an hour of my time EVERY DAY to fix, and it's been that way for months and they still haven't figured out how to fix it. Gah!Huge, long running problems are usually due to a bad design solution. A good design for complicated data transformation programs includes built-in ways to prove it's working or prove where it's not working correctly. It's actually faster to build the transformation program and one or two "prove it's right" programs than it is to build just the transformation program by itself (unless you don't care whether it works). Makes testing largely automated and fewer things get past the programmer because they've automated the testing and the tests tell them exactly what kind of data isn't being handled correctly.
I..I...I...Sword Guy, I work indirectly with people who write code that I have to use and OMG I wish they were half as competent as you sound! I do testing when new code is added, and despite the extensive testing there are always huge problems in production. We are dealing with a production problem that takes up to an hour of my time EVERY DAY to fix, and it's been that way for months and they still haven't figured out how to fix it. Gah!Huge, long running problems are usually due to a bad design solution. A good design for complicated data transformation programs includes built-in ways to prove it's working or prove where it's not working correctly. It's actually faster to build the transformation program and one or two "prove it's right" programs than it is to build just the transformation program by itself (unless you don't care whether it works). Makes testing largely automated and fewer things get past the programmer because they've automated the testing and the tests tell them exactly what kind of data isn't being handled correctly.
...
In later years, I would write scripts to read a database design and produce prototype business specifications for the data maintenance screens and reports. I would write other scripts that would read the database design and identify likely business rules and record them as candidate rules in a rule database. If the rule was approved, other scripts would write the database enforcement code with either fully working code or a stub marked with an @ToDo marker and the specifications the code should meet. Data entry screens knew how to read the business rule database so a generic routine could tell the user what rules were being violated or just which ones applied to the data. All of these techniques removed human labor and the vagaries of human error from large portions of the system. So, instead of spending our time finding and fixing random defects in simple to intermediate code, we could spend much more attention on the key parts of a system that really needed to be correct.
.../quote]
For God's sake, where were you back when I was hiring? For the matter of that, now I am working with a volunteer organization that has chosen a classic hacker -- his operating mode could be summed up as: he does what seems cool at the time, documents nothing, and abandons it half-assed and to move on to the next thing he thinks cool -- to automate our business solutions via the web; I wish I could have found you when that project started. Nothing specified, nothing tested, no bug-fix or enhancement plans. Given the budget, it's hopeless now. I am noiselessly retreating like a cat that stepped in cowpiss.
This is a cool discussion, but can we please get the thread back on topic?
Young kid at my office is in graduate school and getting the GI Bill. The new GI Bill affords him something like $3,000 per month in tax free pay, and pays the tuition in addition to that. At his job as a law clerk, he's making maybe $1,800.
Approaching his last semester he requests to be moved to part-time hours so he can get the best grades possible. They say "no, it's not possible." He says, "okay, I'm giving 2 weeks notice."
Suddenly, it was possible.
Meh, he's a grad student, he'll be moving on naturally anyway. If they want to keep him, they know they're going to have to deal with him with respect. Win-win.Young kid at my office is in graduate school and getting the GI Bill. The new GI Bill affords him something like $3,000 per month in tax free pay, and pays the tuition in addition to that. At his job as a law clerk, he's making maybe $1,800.
Approaching his last semester he requests to be moved to part-time hours so he can get the best grades possible. They say "no, it's not possible." He says, "okay, I'm giving 2 weeks notice."
Suddenly, it was possible.
I'd still leave. 'I don't work for companies that play these games.'
If they want to keep him, they know they're going to have to deal with him with respect.
My wife was working in a call center for the veterans hospital and it was a really tough job (veterans don't usually like the VA, and they're a tough bunch anyway). 3 months in she asks if she can have "mom hours" so she can be there for the kids at the start and end of the days. They say it's not possible; that it could never be allowed.
She interviews for another job and comes back saying "I have another offer. I'll stay for mom hours." They give it to her.
A year in, she asks to be moved into a department, and off the phones. They say there are no openings. As summer approaches she tells her supervisor that she'd like to take unpaid leave because the job is just so awful and she can't bear the idea of missing being there with her kids to be there instead. The boss says it's not possible.
"Okay," she says, and gives 2 weeks notice.
Suddenly, there's an opening and they can bump her up in pay grade early, but it would 40 hours, not mom hours.
6 months later she starts her job at the Treasury Department and someone from the VA is there, too. Turns out when my wife was on mom hours she was answering more calls than anyone else in the call center, and that the departments were asking for people to be trained to model her notes.
I thought about it and spoke to family and friends who are lawyers. They all said it was ‘she-said, she-said’, legal action would take 1-3 years, be very expensive, and there was no guarantee of an outcome in my favor. That didn’t sound like a good way to spend my time, and honestly, I was just exhausted after dealing with that lunacy. There were no spoons left.
Years ago after getting fired from from a job, after being informed that I was not performing adequately never mind I got a raise 2 months before, I considered legal action. I talked to attorneys and an acquaintance who was HR director at another company who agreed they didn't follow their own progressive discipline policies, but in the end I decided to let it go because of the time it would take and interfere with my next job not to mention moving on with my life.
Two years later, the boss who fired me got a taste of her own medicine. She was notorious not only for constant turnover in her own department but was behind firings of other people in other departments. The bosses who let her get away with this all retired. The guy who took over leadership of the organization was someone that she fought with and whom she had seriously pissed off. Once he had the authority to fire her he wasted no time. Oops, made the mistake of not identifying the next in line and cozy up. Unfortunately he fired her whole department with the exception of one person who was smart enough to identify who would succeed the retiring executives and took measures to distance herself. She eventually became president of the organization.
To be honest, I was quite satisfied with hearing the outcome. And I didn't have to spend money or go through legal hassles. Maybe @Warlord1986 you will have the same satisfaction.
My wife was working in a call center for the veterans hospital .................
Please thank your wife for me. I know veterans can be very difficult to deal with. I am one. Often the VA as an institution screwed them over and people like your wife, who are actually effective, have to deal with the fallout, plus the other veteran problems.
My oldest was working at a grocery store, and absolutely hated it, but had a goal to sock away $5k. As she was approaching 18 she let her boss know "I'm turning 18 and would like to move into one of the departments, preferably in the back."
Boss said she wasn't sure (my daughter was repeatedly the most efficient cashier - they tracked and posted it each week).
"Okay, well, I'm giving notice that if I'm not moved when I turn 18, I'm leaving."
Her birthday came and they said they just couldn't move her, despite the posting that there were openings. She submitted official with resignation paperwork with 2 more weeks notice, and was gone. When she didn't show up, a manager called and told her she was supposed to be at work, and could be fired. She said, "I gave notice. It's in my file. But I'll come in if I can work off the register."
She's had 4 months off and this coming week begins her new job. She still has $5k in the bank because she's done some babysitting.
That's a time to be passive-aggressive.
"I'll get right on that boss. Have it on your desk by the end of the week..."
That's really bad management! It's as bad as my last manager, who had me rewrite my letter of resignation 3 times to get it to his standards, and then was completely surprised I was quitting when my last day at work neared.
That's really bad management! It's as bad as my last manager, who had me rewrite my letter of resignation 3 times to get it to his standards, and then was completely surprised I was quitting when my last day at work neared.
Uh, WTF? What kind of micromanaging asshole demands rewrites on a resignation letter? Once he's seen the letter, the necessary information has been conveyed. It doesn't need to be beautiful!
If it were me, I'd have made it shorter and more curt each time he said it wasn't good enough:
"Dear Boss: Quit. -Me"
I'm not sure what it says about me that I have multiple stories between me, my wife, kids, and friends, but.......
Buddy of mine is a lawyer. Upon graduating he got a good job, but then received notice that his Peace Corps application was accepted. He accepted the appointment.
PEACE CORPS: We know you want to go to China to do government consulting, but we want to send you to Micronesia where you'll teach English to children.
FRIEND: Uhhhhhhhh, no.
PEACE CORPS: But it will be like a 2 year vacation, teaching children on a beach.
FRIEND: Nope.
They relented.
While in the Peace Corps, he ended up having serious problems with the leadership his second year. He was really stressing about it, but enjoyed the work, and was making good contacts. Multiple times, he was offered jobs at different businesses, but turned them down so he could finish his tour.
Then his father died. While home on convalescence, he thought over all of the stuff he dealt with, and concluded that he'd actually been in a very hostile work environment. Wanting to just finish his tour, he was going to let it go, but then he began receiving emails while home with an annual review that was very poor, and was told he was required to sign immediately.
FRIEND: "I'm burying my father and caring for my mother. I will address this in 1 week."
PEACE CORPS: "No, you must sign it or face further consequences."
A week later he replied with points he contended with (they said he was AWOL on a day that turned out to be a Chinese Holiday, and another where he was photographed by a newspaper while working).
He strung it out for a month, extending his time at home when he found out from a friend they'd boxed up all of his personal effects and moved him to another apartment, claiming that he and his mother were too distraught. All the while he was interviewing with Chinese businesses. Upon receiving an agreeable offer, he resigned from the Peace Corps and let his new employer fly him business class to Beijing.
Not really FU money ... but my current job is pissing me off and I already have another one lined up (so maybe FU experience)
I started my current job 18 months ago, it was a HUGE raise and really got me out of a toxic environment. Current job pays well, was a move up the ladder, has decent benefits but the commute sucks, it requires travel, the work/life balance is fake, the ENTIRE office lacks personality, and I have continuously been asked to do something with no background information but then magically there are all these documents that I should have consulted (that I didn't know existed) after I have re-created the wheel and not done it to match the background documents.
I was asked a couple of weeks ago to develop a training that we could turn into an online training. This was annoying because you could pay for this type of training right off the shelf but I was told that we want it specific to our facilities, okay whatever. So I have spent the last couple weeks trying to figure out exactly what they want in this and utilizing prepared documents (that I had access to) pertaining to this topic. I sent the draft of the content out yesterday before I left (early) for the day, and was feeling really good about getting things marked off my list. This morning I have an email that says "Let's talk about this in the morning and make sure you bring the quick reference guide that the facilities have for this topic" ... I have never seen or heard about this quick reference guide and have been giving in-person training on this topic for over 18 months. My supervisor that sent that email acted shocked when I told him I did not know what he was talking about and proceeded to try to find the quick reference guide, he also does not have a copy of it. When I asked why he didn't tell me that he wanted the training to be based on the quick reference guide in the 1st place he told me that he wanted to see what I would come up with on my own. The part that I have "missing" in the training is a very specific formula that the company developed internally several years ago to determine if a specific step needs to be taken. Apparently, in this quick reference guide is the only place that the formula is listed.
Now I have wasted 2 weeks putting this thing together and it doesn't have the information in it that they wanted, because I was never given this information. Beyond that I have given training for this topic in-person 4 different times and the reference has never been brought up. My supervisor starts asking why I didn't look though the box of stuff from the person that had my job before. UMMM, because there is no box and it is your responsibility to make sure I am "trained" for my job or at least have access to the documents required to do my job, specifically if they pertain to an exact topic that I am asking you about!
I have submitted 4 week notice (because I feel like 2 weeks is too short to not burn bridges) and will be going to a different job that pays even better, has a 9/80 schedule, better commute, doesn't require travel, and I just got an email from my new supervisor that shows that the work/life balance isn't fake and that he has a personality. Getting the email from my future boss at the same time as I was dealing with this crap from my current boss really made me just want to walk out.
Not really FU money ... but my current job is pissing me off and I already have another one lined up (so maybe FU experience)
........................
will be going to a different job that pays even better, has a 9/80 schedule, better commute, doesn't require travel, and I just got an email from my new supervisor that shows that the work/life balance isn't fake and that he has a personality. Getting the email from my future boss at the same time as I was dealing with this crap from my current boss really made me just want to walk out.
I'm a medical contractor. Last company I contracted with, my contact was full of passive aggressive shenanigans. But since I really only had to put up with him twice per job, I didn't care more than actually getting a 401k match. Until he had the audacity to try to drop me as a contractor with little fanfare. I was pretty annoyed, but not enough to go out of my way to spend effort to complain. They'd lost me as a client; punishment given. And Jobs get thrown at me constantly by multiple companies as it is. But then his company emailed me asking for feedback.
Well, if you're going to go email me for feedback... I gave full blown with names, and Facebook and text references. Would have attached a photo file if I could. And that I would go out of my way to not recommend them ever to any one of my fellow contractors.
Phone started blowing up, all the paperwork I'd requested weeks before showed up, and then I get an email. Pretty please would I talk to Mr. Passive Aggressive. I replied, "You made it very clear you didn't wish to work with me anymore. I agree with that decision. Thank you."
And that was the end of that. Bridge burned and I don't care.
And that was the end of that. Bridge burned and I don't care.
And that was the end of that. Bridge burned and I don't care.
Nice! Some bridges need to be burned - bad actions need to have consequences if there's to be any hope of a healthy workplace.
We hear about entitlement mentality with regard to public assistance quite a bit, but this type of entitlement mentality really bugs me. Here is someone who is making the family owned company money, and they don’t reward it or celebrate it. Maybe they even begrudge it a little. And then when the guy is doing fine without them, they hold it against him. What kind of messed up situation is that?Sounds like the good ol' green-eyed monster.
We hear about entitlement mentality with regard to public assistance quite a bit, but this type of entitlement mentality really bugs me. Here is someone who is making the family owned company money, and they don’t reward it or celebrate it. Maybe they even begrudge it a little. And then when the guy is doing fine without them, they hold it against him. What kind of messed up situation is that?I think the entitlement mentality applies to people in lots of situations, not just those on public assistance. I, for one, have to check myself occasionally, even though I'm fully employed and self-sufficient.
We hear about entitlement mentality with regard to public assistance quite a bit, but this type of entitlement mentality really bugs me. Here is someone who is making the family owned company money, and they don’t reward it or celebrate it. Maybe they even begrudge it a little. And then when the guy is doing fine without them, they hold it against him. What kind of messed up situation is that?I'm willing to bet those family owners aren't the founder of the company. They are probably 2nd or 3rd generation, 3rd-rate people who have it better than their merits deserve due to their inheritance. Deep down they know it and someone with real competence working near them just makes the contrast between their inadequacy and the other person's ability that much clearer. Being 3rd-rate people, they don't take that as a challenge to better themselves so they put down the other person instead.
We hear about entitlement mentality with regard to public assistance quite a bit, but this type of entitlement mentality really bugs me. Here is someone who is making the family owned company money, and they don’t reward it or celebrate it. Maybe they even begrudge it a little. And then when the guy is doing fine without them, they hold it against him. What kind of messed up situation is that?I'm willing to bet those family owners aren't the founder of the company. They are probably 2nd or 3rd generation, 3rd-rate people who have it better than their merits deserve due to their inheritance. Deep down they know it and someone with real competence working near them just makes the contrast between their inadequacy and the other person's ability that much clearer. Being 3rd-rate people, they don't take that as a challenge to better themselves so they put down the other person instead.
Explains a lot about today's world in the country I live in.
We hear about entitlement mentality with regard to public assistance quite a bit, but this type of entitlement mentality really bugs me. Here is someone who is making the family owned company money, and they don’t reward it or celebrate it. Maybe they even begrudge it a little. And then when the guy is doing fine without them, they hold it against him. What kind of messed up situation is that?I dunno, it's weird. My sister is an office manager for an insurance company. Has been for decades. She's really good at it. 15 years ago or so, her boss gave her the opportunity to get certified to do insurance sales. It was a small office at that point, with two owners / insurance salesmen, and two office workers.
Thought I'd add my own, despite not having any serious FU money or having to say FU to work. Last week I came out as transgender at work to little excitement. Having enough money to cover my debts and enough job skills to find some remote work if need be helped me to get over the whole lack of employment protection concern I had. You might say I said FU to being closeted instead.
Also, to be both foamy and on topic, my bosses were all kinds of supportive in helping me get enough things sorted out before making the big announcement. This let me relatively focus on work without them simply cracking the whip.
What a splendid update. Congratulations to all of it.Thought I'd add my own, despite not having any serious FU money or having to say FU to work. Last week I came out as transgender at work to little excitement. Having enough money to cover my debts and enough job skills to find some remote work if need be helped me to get over the whole lack of employment protection concern I had. You might say I said FU to being closeted instead.
Also, to be both foamy and on topic, my bosses were all kinds of supportive in helping me get enough things sorted out before making the big announcement. This let me relatively focus on work without them simply cracking the whip.
Maybe epic in that I have a 4.5 year old update to this. Over this time span, I've remained at the same web hosting company, have become a locally known trans activist, and now have solid FU money. At an upbeat company wide meeting, I asked the CEO what the company's plans were for handling customers who are potentially dangerous to myself and other employees. I got to watch the CEO and CFO squirm in front of an audience trying to address the question, and practically feel the breathlessness in the room. I also now have a direct in with the CFO to air further concerns. I have my transition and my activism work to thank for my spine, and FU money as a safety net.
Thought I'd add my own, despite not having any serious FU money or having to say FU to work. Last week I came out as transgender at work to little excitement. Having enough money to cover my debts and enough job skills to find some remote work if need be helped me to get over the whole lack of employment protection concern I had. You might say I said FU to being closeted instead.
Also, to be both foamy and on topic, my bosses were all kinds of supportive in helping me get enough things sorted out before making the big announcement. This let me relatively focus on work without them simply cracking the whip.
Maybe epic in that I have a 4.5 year old update to this. Over this time span, I've remained at the same web hosting company, have become a locally known trans activist, and now have solid FU money. At an upbeat company wide meeting, I asked the CEO what the company's plans were for handling customers who are potentially dangerous to myself and other employees. I got to watch the CEO and CFO squirm in front of an audience trying to address the question, and practically feel the breathlessness in the room. I also now have a direct in with the CFO to air further concerns. I have my transition and my activism work to thank for my spine, and FU money as a safety net.
Thought I'd add my own, despite not having any serious FU money or having to say FU to work. Last week I came out as transgender at work to little excitement. Having enough money to cover my debts and enough job skills to find some remote work if need be helped me to get over the whole lack of employment protection concern I had. You might say I said FU to being closeted instead.
Also, to be both foamy and on topic, my bosses were all kinds of supportive in helping me get enough things sorted out before making the big announcement. This let me relatively focus on work without them simply cracking the whip.
Maybe epic in that I have a 4.5 year old update to this. Over this time span, I've remained at the same web hosting company, have become a locally known trans activist, and now have solid FU money. At an upbeat company wide meeting, I asked the CEO what the company's plans were for handling customers who are potentially dangerous to myself and other employees. I got to watch the CEO and CFO squirm in front of an audience trying to address the question, and practically feel the breathlessness in the room. I also now have a direct in with the CFO to air further concerns. I have my transition and my activism work to thank for my spine, and FU money as a safety net.
What on earth about the question "how do you keep your employees safe" is supposed to be difficult? If it's difficult, it's because the company is not doing the job it should be and making sure its employees are safe at work, and with Trump's policies and rhetoric in relation to transpeople the issue of safety is more pertinent for them now than ever. Not having an answer is a big red flag and I'm glad @fantabulous' company seems to be recognising that.Thought I'd add my own, despite not having any serious FU money or having to say FU to work. Last week I came out as transgender at work to little excitement. Having enough money to cover my debts and enough job skills to find some remote work if need be helped me to get over the whole lack of employment protection concern I had. You might say I said FU to being closeted instead.
Also, to be both foamy and on topic, my bosses were all kinds of supportive in helping me get enough things sorted out before making the big announcement. This let me relatively focus on work without them simply cracking the whip.
Maybe epic in that I have a 4.5 year old update to this. Over this time span, I've remained at the same web hosting company, have become a locally known trans activist, and now have solid FU money. At an upbeat company wide meeting, I asked the CEO what the company's plans were for handling customers who are potentially dangerous to myself and other employees. I got to watch the CEO and CFO squirm in front of an audience trying to address the question, and practically feel the breathlessness in the room. I also now have a direct in with the CFO to air further concerns. I have my transition and my activism work to thank for my spine, and FU money as a safety net.
Is there more background to this? It sounds like your company was supportive then you needlessly put them on the spot with a difficult question out of nowhere in front of everyone?
We live in a world with a lot of people that think that discrimination and outright violence towards LGBT+ people is A-OK, and the LGBT+ people and allies have gotten tired of pretending it isn't a problem. Additionally, more and more people are getting tired of bad behavior in the workplace and in business relationships in general. Those of us that do not have to tolerate toxicity have an obligation to speak up for people who don't have that freedom.
What on earth about the question "how do you keep your employees safe" is supposed to be difficult? If it's difficult, it's because the company is not doing the job it should be and making sure its employees are safe at work, and with Trump's policies and rhetoric in relation to transpeople the issue of safety is more pertinent for them now than ever. Not having an answer is a big red flag and I'm glad @fantabulous' company seems to be recognising that.
Is there more background to this? It sounds like your company was supportive then you needlessly put them on the spot with a difficult question out of nowhere in front of everyone?
Is there more background to this? It sounds like your company was supportive then you needlessly put them on the spot with a difficult question out of nowhere in front of everyone?
Agreed, and many companies don’t have a real answer. I’m a cis woman who had a national customer rep threaten to spank me and had a good laugh. My company told me to avoid being alone with that rep- they didn’t do squat, they weren’t going to risk the account and our HR couldn’t do anything to another company’s employee. Thankfully I only had to interact with the jerk a few times a year, and my verbal response to the incident was enough to dissuade him from continuing to say crap like that to me. I don’t think this guy would have actually laid a hand on me, but it was clear that if he did it would have been my problem.What on earth about the question "how do you keep your employees safe" is supposed to be difficult? If it's difficult, it's because the company is not doing the job it should be and making sure its employees are safe at work, and with Trump's policies and rhetoric in relation to transpeople the issue of safety is more pertinent for them now than ever. Not having an answer is a big red flag and I'm glad @fantabulous' company seems to be recognising that.Thought I'd add my own, despite not having any serious FU money or having to say FU to work. Last week I came out as transgender at work to little excitement. Having enough money to cover my debts and enough job skills to find some remote work if need be helped me to get over the whole lack of employment protection concern I had. You might say I said FU to being closeted instead.
Also, to be both foamy and on topic, my bosses were all kinds of supportive in helping me get enough things sorted out before making the big announcement. This let me relatively focus on work without them simply cracking the whip.
Maybe epic in that I have a 4.5 year old update to this. Over this time span, I've remained at the same web hosting company, have become a locally known trans activist, and now have solid FU money. At an upbeat company wide meeting, I asked the CEO what the company's plans were for handling customers who are potentially dangerous to myself and other employees. I got to watch the CEO and CFO squirm in front of an audience trying to address the question, and practically feel the breathlessness in the room. I also now have a direct in with the CFO to air further concerns. I have my transition and my activism work to thank for my spine, and FU money as a safety net.
Is there more background to this? It sounds like your company was supportive then you needlessly put them on the spot with a difficult question out of nowhere in front of everyone?
seems like a weird time to bring that up out of nowhere
Is there more background to this? It sounds like your company was supportive then you needlessly put them on the spot with a difficult question out of nowhere in front of everyone?
Hate sites the company hosts and the credible doxxing threat from customers who host these sites came to light at the company recently. This is a company with phone/email based support, and not a self service provider. While this is the first time I spoke directly to the executives about it, I had already spoken to managers about the need for policy. Whether that be updating the company's terms of services, flagging potentially dangerous accounts, etc, there was very little in place. I gave a face to the real human cost of "just business", and notably forced them to address the issue to rank and file employees. There wasn't any avoiding putting them on the spot, save for sitting down when I needed to stand up for my coworkers who weren't in a position to do so. It was still a very measured question I posed, because I know how to shoot for the goal of change rather than merely embarrassment. A reminder that as part of my update, I now have the CFO's ear in these matters in addition to managers.
Edit to add: While I had planned throughout the meeting to speak up, I likely would have continued pursuing less public channels if the concerns were addressed to any degree at the meeting. They were not.
I was hired as Admin (Legal) 11 years ago, by a boss who the interim agency described as 'difficult', so I upped my requested salary by $700/month, and she agreed :) (I should have asked for more). The job was fulltime and permanent from day one. I was trained for a week by the guy that was leaving (his 6-month temp job wasn't prolonged), then I worked on my own for a week, then I had to train my new colleague Admin. We work for the Department (proofreading, layout, filing, corporate housekeeping, Board of Directors support, odd jobs for boss directly).
I worked for that boss for 6 years, and I had 5 Admin colleagues in that time; they all left more or less quickly due to my difficult boss. I could not leave, because my boyfriend/fiance/husband was still studying or in lowpaying jobs, we had two children (2x16wks paid maternity leave), and bought a house, and we needed my income. Then, my boss was fired! Joy!
No boss for 6 months, the whole Department (4 lawyers at different levels of seniority) lightened up. New boss for 2 years, until she got promoted back to her old company (European-American MSA affair). Wonderful boss, great fun to work for, but she thought I was her PA .....
In the meantime, husband has work experience and changes jobs twice, and now earns a normal income (nothing crazy, but decent). Also, in the meantime, company is acquired by Chinese, and company culture changes from family business vibe to strictly commercial/no mercy.
New boss comes in, thinks I'm her PA only, gives my Admin colleague a well-deserved promotion, and then doesn't replace her! I'm now on my own, trying to handle a workload even the two of us couldn't handle, working with a boss who refuses to hear that I'm not happy booking her private family vacation flights and visas to China when there is a proper work backlog. I hate booking flights, I'm a much better proofreader and librarian then I am a travel agent. Boss works from home two days a week, travels a lot, and when in the office, is in meetings all the time.
I run the numbers with husband; we will be able to cope on his salary alone, and he's behind me if I want to leave. I decide to stop pandering to boss, and will make my own list of priorities, and a list of items I'm not able to handle due to not enough time. Then, I find an email on the company printer: boss thinks I'm not loyal and am slacking, and wants to fire me (printed by HR! Who I have taught each one individually how to use secure print!). I have a bad night's sleep, but husband supports me, I start calling law firms, unions, and social security organisations to get all my ducks in a row, and wait for the exit interview. I clear my computer and desk, and collect private contact info of the few colleagues I would like to stay in touch with.
Interview comes, I am still in shock, but at least don't have the first wave of emotions and manage to handle it well. I hand in my phone and laptop immediately, to no longer be connected to them. Second meeting with HR a week later to discuss severance pay and I manage to negotiate 11 months pay (1 month for every year I worked there), outplacement services on top from reputed agency (by law, they have to offer, but only basic, and they can deduct it from the severance pay), health insurance until the end of the year, glowing letter of recommendation, certificate that I was fired due to a reorganisation (which allows me to claim unemployment benefits later).
I have now been home for 3 months and am destressing. The outplacement project has started, but I'm not really in a rush to start working again; I'd like to go back to University and finish my MA. The house is finally properly clean, kids are happy that I can pick them up and have the energy to play and discuss things eith them, husband is happy that he can now fully concentrate on his carreer (he picked dds up fromschool and cooked every night), I have time to contact old friends, and just walk outside as soon as the sun shines.
Cousin of mine just told me this story:that is pretty epic.....can't say I'd like to work for someone that thinks calling me a liar is appropriate. OTH, if there was work that needed doing, not coming in because you want to play in the snow is unfair to a small family business - they can't been their commitments.
He's working for a small machine shop run by a nice family. One day it snows (it doesn't snow often where he lives), so he calls in and says he's going to stay home since there'll be little-to-no work because trucks they expected to come in would be delayed. The boss says he'll pick him up.
"No," cousin says, "I'll just take a day off to be with my kids."
Next day his boss confronts him about why he really didn't come in. My cousin said he didn't want to miss this chance to be with his kids in the snow. Boss called him a liar.
And then he quit.
Cousin of mine just told me this story:that is pretty epic.....can't say I'd like to work for someone that thinks calling me a liar is appropriate. OTH, if there was work that needed doing, not coming in because you want to play in the snow is unfair to a small family business - they can't been their commitments.
He's working for a small machine shop run by a nice family. One day it snows (it doesn't snow often where he lives), so he calls in and says he's going to stay home since there'll be little-to-no work because trucks they expected to come in would be delayed. The boss says he'll pick him up.
"No," cousin says, "I'll just take a day off to be with my kids."
Next day his boss confronts him about why he really didn't come in. My cousin said he didn't want to miss this chance to be with his kids in the snow. Boss called him a liar.
And then he quit.
Agreed, and many companies don’t have a real answer. I’m a cis woman who had a national customer rep threaten to spank me and had a good laugh. My company told me to avoid being alone with that rep- they didn’t do squat, they weren’t going to risk the account and our HR couldn’t do anything to another company’s employee. Thankfully I only had to interact with the jerk a few times a year, and my verbal response to the incident was enough to dissuade him from continuing to say crap like that to me. I don’t think this guy would have actually laid a hand on me, but it was clear that if he did it would have been my problem.What on earth about the question "how do you keep your employees safe" is supposed to be difficult? If it's difficult, it's because the company is not doing the job it should be and making sure its employees are safe at work, and with Trump's policies and rhetoric in relation to transpeople the issue of safety is more pertinent for them now than ever. Not having an answer is a big red flag and I'm glad @fantabulous' company seems to be recognising that.Thought I'd add my own, despite not having any serious FU money or having to say FU to work. Last week I came out as transgender at work to little excitement. Having enough money to cover my debts and enough job skills to find some remote work if need be helped me to get over the whole lack of employment protection concern I had. You might say I said FU to being closeted instead.
Also, to be both foamy and on topic, my bosses were all kinds of supportive in helping me get enough things sorted out before making the big announcement. This let me relatively focus on work without them simply cracking the whip.
Maybe epic in that I have a 4.5 year old update to this. Over this time span, I've remained at the same web hosting company, have become a locally known trans activist, and now have solid FU money. At an upbeat company wide meeting, I asked the CEO what the company's plans were for handling customers who are potentially dangerous to myself and other employees. I got to watch the CEO and CFO squirm in front of an audience trying to address the question, and practically feel the breathlessness in the room. I also now have a direct in with the CFO to air further concerns. I have my transition and my activism work to thank for my spine, and FU money as a safety net.
Is there more background to this? It sounds like your company was supportive then you needlessly put them on the spot with a difficult question out of nowhere in front of everyone?
I'm female and over 50. With a 7 year exception (female run and focused workplace) I've always worked in male dominated fields. I don't have a single epic FU story, but I have countless stories of male customers/co-workers thinking they could touch/insult/threaten me just because I'm a girl. Thanks to my FU money I frequently felt able to push back and did (one or two situations were dangerous and focusing on getting to safety was paramount, the pushback for those came later). At several workplaces I was even able to speak up and protect younger/less able female co-workers.
More of us (and not just those of us who are viewed as potential victims) should be asking companies what their plans are to protect employees. Way to go Fantabulous!
Boss is just a jackass I guess....got what he deservedCousin of mine just told me this story:that is pretty epic.....can't say I'd like to work for someone that thinks calling me a liar is appropriate. OTH, if there was work that needed doing, not coming in because you want to play in the snow is unfair to a small family business - they can't been their commitments.
He's working for a small machine shop run by a nice family. One day it snows (it doesn't snow often where he lives), so he calls in and says he's going to stay home since there'll be little-to-no work because trucks they expected to come in would be delayed. The boss says he'll pick him up.
"No," cousin says, "I'll just take a day off to be with my kids."
Next day his boss confronts him about why he really didn't come in. My cousin said he didn't want to miss this chance to be with his kids in the snow. Boss called him a liar.
And then he quit.
He was specifically told work they expected wasn't going to be there, and that everyone else was there anyway (boss picked them up). Maybe the boss had a fun thing going on that he was excited about. Can't say. All I know is that my cousin said he was very confused about how it escalated like it did, but felt certain that leaving was the right thing to do.
He's been a SAHD dad for 8 months now and said he's never felt more fulfilled. I'm so happy for him because he's such a good dude.
Not sure if this is Epic FU but had a talk with DW yesterday because she is overworked because of her extra effort because I had an accident last year (and 2 kids who need special attention and a job where her boss is a yelling micromanager). The work schedule (only weekends in the late evening) wreaks havoc on her sleep schedule and the mondays are hell because of it.
I told her not to worry, we've got the stash and absolutely no need for her to keep the job because of my income. She also said she wanted to go back into healthcare but wanted to take a few months before doing so which is fine.
So, we made the choice and she's going to resign this weekend, take some time to re(dis)cover herself and then find something she would like to do. Whether it being paid or not.
We also discussed my job, as i've got combined job (basically 2 jobs, 9 hours a week for one and 27 hours a week for the other at the same employer) with different and sometimes conflicting priorities. This was a compromised promotion because I get to do some of the work of the higher paid job but am mainly active in the lower paid job. I do get paid based on the higher job though so it'll be a small drop in salary (which is also fine).
So, I'm going to ask my boss if I can drop the 9 hours of the higher job and just keep myself busy full time in the simpler job.
Not sure if this is Epic FU but had a talk with DW yesterday because she is overworked because of her extra effort because I had an accident last year (and 2 kids who need special attention and a job where her boss is a yelling micromanager). The work schedule (only weekends in the late evening) wreaks havoc on her sleep schedule and the mondays are hell because of it.
I told her not to worry, we've got the stash and absolutely no need for her to keep the job because of my income. She also said she wanted to go back into healthcare but wanted to take a few months before doing so which is fine.
So, we made the choice and she's going to resign this weekend, take some time to re(dis)cover herself and then find something she would like to do. Whether it being paid or not.
We also discussed my job, as i've got combined job (basically 2 jobs, 9 hours a week for one and 27 hours a week for the other at the same employer) with different and sometimes conflicting priorities. This was a compromised promotion because I get to do some of the work of the higher paid job but am mainly active in the lower paid job. I do get paid based on the higher job though so it'll be a small drop in salary (which is also fine).
So, I'm going to ask my boss if I can drop the 9 hours of the higher job and just keep myself busy full time in the simpler job.
While not epic or FU, it's still good.
I am so glad to be done and finally really FIRE'd.
Side note, for fun I came in extra early today and watched every single one of my co-workers come in later than they should and watched them leave after putting in only about 7 hours. As I said, I was following the rest of the staff with my comings and goings and it was nice to prove that she was out of line
So I did today. Color me D.O.N.E.
I quit.
She freaked out. She refused to accept my resignation.
She then ham-handedly turned the topic to my hours. She said she noticed I only worked 7 hours a day and I really need to work 8.
I quit.
She freaked out.
She then ham-handedly turned the topic to my hours. She said she noticed I only worked 7 hours a day and I really need to work 8.
I quit.
She freaked out.
Love this.
I wonder if, somewhere on the internet, there's a forum where bosses post stories like this from the other side. "In the middle of the regular review of one of my reports, it got a bit awkward because I had to tell her she wasn't working the required hours--and she just up and quit! Can you believe it?"
Butt in seat time based jobs seem to be very common in large organizations.The question is:
Slow clap for @MissNancyPryor - how great to be in a position to send such a powerful message. One can hope that they learn something...
I am so glad to be done and finally really FIRE'd.Congratulations. Definitely an epic FU money story.
After ruminating a few days I can say the whole hours thing really, really bugs me.Do you have to submit a timesheet stating 8 hours a day? I am a government contractor so I have to be a stickler with my time...federal crime otherwise. I had a big issue with coworkers doing the same thing...that amplified when I was promoted to manager and had to start approving those timesheets. I called someone out on their blatant timecard issues...it got ugly
So which is it: Am I a great catch that they were able to lure back after lamenting my absence and now have big leadership visions for,
-or-
am I a dishonest hourly clerk who is singled out from the group and found to be cheating on her time card?
Trying to paint me as both was mind numbingly stupid. I think because she lost the argument about me moving up to her vision in the first part of the conversation she thought she could zing me with treating me like a low level hourly person as a demonstration that she was still in control of me. If I don’t follow her vision I will bear the wrath of being treated like I can’t wipe my own ass.
Monty, I will take Door Number 3 and GTFO instead.
She never saw that coming and that makes her a foolish manager. Further, when I quit she should have quickly wished me well and let me carry on my way— that would have been a show of strength and dignity on her part.
I do not accept hammer blows because I don't need the job.I am printing this out and hanging it above my cube. I do actually need a job, but I don't necessarily need this job. And it's healthy for me to remember this.
Nice FU MissNancyPrior!
Sometimes i think a fun post-fire job would be to get hired at known toxic companies and fuck with the management.
Nice FU MissNancyPrior!
Sometimes i think a fun post-fire job would be to get hired at known toxic companies and fuck with the management.
I'm going to graduate to this once I'm done with all the telemarketers.
Sometimes i think a fun post-fire job would be to get hired at known toxic companies and fuck with the management.
Nice FU MissNancyPrior!
Sometimes i think a fun post-fire job would be to get hired at known toxic companies and fuck with the management.
Ooh, I like the idea of infiltrating multiple positions. Hmmm, it might even make for a good TV show....maybe something like....Nice FU MissNancyPrior!
Sometimes i think a fun post-fire job would be to get hired at known toxic companies and fuck with the management.
Oh man, this.
Imagine getting hired into HR, finding a problem manager, and filling their team with fellow FI mustachians... *touches fingertips with an evil grin*
"Two years ago, a handful of workers were chewed out by a boss for something they didn't do. These people promptly quit their jobs and joined the FIRE movement. Today, still wanted by the Internet Retirement Police, they thrive as spoilers of mismanagement. If your manager stinks...and nobody in HR is willing to help...and if you can find them...maybe you can enlist*...the FI-Team." (cue heroic music)
Ooh, I like the idea of infiltrating multiple positions. Hmmm, it might even make for a good TV show....maybe something like....Nice FU MissNancyPrior!
Sometimes i think a fun post-fire job would be to get hired at known toxic companies and fuck with the management.
Oh man, this.
Imagine getting hired into HR, finding a problem manager, and filling their team with fellow FI mustachians... *touches fingertips with an evil grin*
"Two years ago, a handful of workers were chewed out by a boss for something they didn't do. These people promptly quit their jobs and joined the FIRE movement. Today, still wanted by the Internet Retirement Police, they thrive as spoilers of mismanagement. If your manager stinks...and nobody in HR is willing to help...and if you can find them...maybe you can enlist*...the FI-Team." (cue heroic music)
* no, you can't hire them, because they're retired.
Ooh, I like the idea of infiltrating multiple positions. Hmmm, it might even make for a good TV show....maybe something like....Nice FU MissNancyPrior!
Sometimes i think a fun post-fire job would be to get hired at known toxic companies and fuck with the management.
Oh man, this.
Imagine getting hired into HR, finding a problem manager, and filling their team with fellow FI mustachians... *touches fingertips with an evil grin*
"Two years ago, a handful of workers were chewed out by a boss for something they didn't do. These people promptly quit their jobs and joined the FIRE movement. Today, still wanted by the Internet Retirement Police, they thrive as spoilers of mismanagement. If your manager stinks...and nobody in HR is willing to help...and if you can find them...maybe you can enlist*...the FI-Team." (cue heroic music)
* no, you can't hire them, because they're retired.
As long as we still get to build cabbage cannons.
Sometimes i think a fun post-fire job would be to get hired at known toxic companies and fuck with the management.
This!
It would take some serious FI concentration to not internalize the stress in work locations like that, but wouldn't it be fun to turn toxic environments around by having the leverage to get the right things done? Even the leverage to get rid of the bad apples? "So-and-so is ruining your company. I can help you fix your problems, but you're going to fire so-and-so first".
You can be a regional specialist.Ooh, I like the idea of infiltrating multiple positions. Hmmm, it might even make for a good TV show....maybe something like....Nice FU MissNancyPrior!
Sometimes i think a fun post-fire job would be to get hired at known toxic companies and fuck with the management.
Oh man, this.
Imagine getting hired into HR, finding a problem manager, and filling their team with fellow FI mustachians... *touches fingertips with an evil grin*
"Two years ago, a handful of workers were chewed out by a boss for something they didn't do. These people promptly quit their jobs and joined the FIRE movement. Today, still wanted by the Internet Retirement Police, they thrive as spoilers of mismanagement. If your manager stinks...and nobody in HR is willing to help...and if you can find them...maybe you can enlist*...the FI-Team." (cue heroic music)
* no, you can't hire them, because they're retired.
As long as we still get to build cabbage cannons.
I ain't getting on no plane.
I am sticking with my theory that she pulled it out of her ass as an attempt to wrest control over me since I would not accept the idea of moving up out of the job. I had already frustrated her by wanting to just do the job I was hired for so she had no other bullets. She didn't think she would actually kill me with it but she was wrong.[/quote]vi
viI am sticking with my theory that she pulled it out of her ass as an attempt to wrest control over me since I would not accept the idea of moving up out of the job. I had already frustrated her by wanting to just do the job I was hired for so she had no other bullets. She didn't think she would actually kill me with it but she was wrong.
Ooh, I like the idea of infiltrating multiple positions. Hmmm, it might even make for a good TV show....maybe something like....Nice FU MissNancyPrior!
Sometimes i think a fun post-fire job would be to get hired at known toxic companies and fuck with the management.
Oh man, this.
Imagine getting hired into HR, finding a problem manager, and filling their team with fellow FI mustachians... *touches fingertips with an evil grin*
"Two years ago, a handful of workers were chewed out by a boss for something they didn't do. These people promptly quit their jobs and joined the FIRE movement. Today, still wanted by the Internet Retirement Police, they thrive as spoilers of mismanagement. If your manager stinks...and nobody in HR is willing to help...and if you can find them...maybe you can enlist*...the FI-Team." (cue heroic music)
* no, you can't hire them, because they're retired.
As long as we still get to build cabbage cannons.
I ain't getting on no plane.
I finally have a story to share!
My daughter got a part time job at a ski shop, which is a great opportunity, should be fun, etc. It didn't turn out that way, as she was the only female employee, and when she became ill, the manager [I assume, don't know exactly] was not very accommodating, kind of retaliating by not scheduling her at all. It's also just stressing her out because she has a full load of classes, and her academics were not great last year.
So she's quitting. I mentioned that she should do what is right for her, and to remember this feeling of control and freedom (I am paying for her education and room and board, so her current power comes from privilege, not savings). I explained that to be in that position of power, she needs to save 50%+ of her income, and always have enough to walk if the situation warrants.
I think she gets it, and mentioned that she still has a good amount of savings from her summer job. Planting the seeds of a potential future epic FU money story.
I explained that to be in that position of power, she needs to save 50%+ of her income
Advocating that you should always save 50% of your income seems kind of impossible for a parent to carry out successfully.
Your daughter's income will grow rapidly through the decade of her 20's. An easier path for her is to get used to saving some, but then commit to saving 50% of any raises that appear.
Bravo!Advocating that you should always save 50% of your income seems kind of impossible for a parent to carry out successfully.
Your daughter's income will grow rapidly through the decade of her 20's. An easier path for her is to get used to saving some, but then commit to saving 50% of any raises that appear.
Impossible for parents making how much? For every financial goal someone says is impossible, you can find someone else doing it. We, as mustachians, come across this from people all the time. Impossible shouldn't be in our vocabulary.
I finally have a story to share!
My daughter got a part time job at a ski shop, which is a great opportunity, should be fun, etc. It didn't turn out that way, as she was the only female employee, and when she became ill, the manager [I assume, don't know exactly] was not very accommodating, kind of retaliating by not scheduling her at all. It's also just stressing her out because she has a full load of classes, and her academics were not great last year.
So she's quitting. I mentioned that she should do what is right for her, and to remember this feeling of control and freedom (I am paying for her education and room and board, so her current power comes from privilege, not savings). I explained that to be in that position of power, she needs to save 50%+ of her income, and always have enough to walk if the situation warrants.
I think she gets it, and mentioned that she still has a good amount of savings from her summer job. Planting the seeds of a potential future epic FU money story.
Good job Dad.
A lot of this is on the 2019 cohort thread but it fits here and I was encouraged to post it in this widely-read thread.
I left my very stressful job April 5th, 2019 as per the glorious FIRE plan of quitting at age 50. I quickly returned to work later that month at a place I used to work years prior in an effort to transition and SWAMI my way into a retirement. I felt like I needed a transition period from the crazy corporate life with its ridiculous cross country travel to a time where I could still earn a little bit as a safety net and would finally be able to develop my life outside of work and be social since I would finally be no one's boss.
I shifted from a high power boss type job pre-FIRE to more of a technical analyst, but still salaried and with a decent paycheck. Unfortunately I have been there 4 months and it is boring beyond all hell. There is a struggle because the person who is supposed to be training me is a passive aggressive dude who told me flat out, "No one taught me anything here, I had to figure it out for myself" and then proceeded to not teach me anything there. Every bit of knowledge I have gained has been painfully acquired. It was clear that he did not want me to be the successful candidate for this job, he wanted a buddy of his, but they could not meet the salary requirements. The fact that I easily figured out that I was not his first choice should tell you everything about how he treated me after I arrived.
But, the goals of transitioning are being met for the most part-- I have enjoyed not carrying a company cell phone any longer and the extension of medical insurance as well as a paycheck. Even though it is boring and I have the constant friction with the dude in the next cubicle I decided that I would stay a year so as not to be a jerk about things and show some gratitude.
Last Friday my boss and I had our regular 1:1 session and she said she could tell I was not happy. I explained (again, because I have been saying it to her since my second week there) that I was not getting the training I needed and was frustrated but I was sorry I was not hiding it better. She encouraged me to take a promotion where my skill set and leadership experience would be better used. I declined and emphasized that I purposefully downshifted to this role in order to build a life that was not driven by work. After a while we developed some ideas on how I could find a path forward and we agreed.
She then ham-handedly turned the topic to my hours. She said she noticed I only worked 7 hours a day and I really need to work 8.
I quit.
She freaked out. She refused to accept my resignation.
It was fairly dramatic but I explained that I have been working the exact same hours as the rest of the group, I am a salaried individual, and furthermore I asked more than once when I got on board what the deal was and it was agreed I was fine. I had just spent 40 minutes going through how I was struggling with getting necessary training from a guy who refuses to provide it and to move to a discussion about my HOURS of all things was just too much. I told her I simply can't take that and therefore I quit. She told me to sleep on it and let her know Monday.
So I did today. Color me D.O.N.E.
Today it was a surprisingly good discussion with her. I agreed to help us both by doing a graceful exit. "It just wasn't a fit, I am going to go back to my early retirement" will be our story. I can live with that. The only question now is if I should work at all into September or if I can take vacation days to get me another full month of health insurance to ease the transition out to the exchange.
Side note, for fun I came in extra early today and watched every single one of my co-workers come in later than they should and watched them leave after putting in only about 7 hours. As I said, I was following the rest of the staff with my comings and goings and it was nice to prove that she was out of line.
I am really glad that doing this short encore job gave me the chance to have an oh-so-satisfying EPIC FU MONEY story as my final exit from working life. That must have been what these few months were for, a small gift to myself in that I do not have to put up with a boring job where I can't get good training and am going to be hounded about my hours. Perfect.
I am so glad to be done and finally really FIRE'd.
Bravo!Advocating that you should always save 50% of your income seems kind of impossible for a parent to carry out successfully.
Your daughter's income will grow rapidly through the decade of her 20's. An easier path for her is to get used to saving some, but then commit to saving 50% of any raises that appear.
Impossible for parents making how much? For every financial goal someone says is impossible, you can find someone else doing it. We, as mustachians, come across this from people all the time. Impossible shouldn't be in our vocabulary.
I have a new entry, from my sister, whom in a short time got to experience two different aspects of FU money.the attitude from FU money is a powerful thing....just having that attitude shuts down alot of work-place bullies. Having the air of 'I won't put up with that shit' often stops the bullies. Good for your daughter for knowing when to walk away.
She took on a part-time small-town bartending job for extra money. She bartended in school so it was an easy job to pick up. She learned quickly that the owner was the angry, yelling kind of boss. But she didn't really need the job, and as such she realized the yelling and anger didn't bother her, where as previously if would have. But now it just rolled off her back and she could just ignore him. Benefit of FU money #1.
Until the other night when he starting yelling at her directly like she was an idiot, which she decided she absolutely wasn't ok with. She told him 'no one talks to me like that' and walked. Benefit of FU money #2.
Very proud of her, and very happy she's in the position to not put up with bullshit anymore. I wish everyone were taught the power of that.
Raising a child who saves 50% of his or her income is not a financial goal. My children won't even listen to me about easy stuff I want them to do.
Raising a child who saves 50% of his or her income is not a financial goal. My children won't even listen to me about easy stuff I want them to do.
Hang in there Tall Texan. Sometimes your kids will surprise you. From the outside it looks messy but one day they reveal that something you taught them stuck.
DW and I are in a similar situation with our kids.
This thread is so much fun! So here's one of mine...
My first job, working as a cashier at a stop-and-shop quicky mart. I got the job as a junior in high school, paid 15 cents more per hour than minimum wage. Decent manager, the owners showed up to count the cash and sign for deliveries, everything else was on us.
We had pretty good continuity, people stayed typically 12-24 months, with occasional bumps in pay. Pretty laid back, to the point where payroll checks were loaded under the cash drawer every other Friday, and anyone could scan them as they weren't in envelopes.
Well, a new guy had been hired, and I was training him his first week. I was now graduated from HS, and starting at the junior college up the hill. I'd moved out to my own apartment (at age 17!), and was a great employee for them - never sick, always willing to cover for others' absences, never late, good at training. When paychecks came out in New Guys' second week, as I sorted through the stack to get my check, I could see that his hourly rate was higher than mine.
OK, I hadn't asked for a raise for awhile, and surely I was worth it, and I understood that the boss doesn't *have* to pay me more unless I ask...so I do.
The next Saturday morning, the owner was in, and I asked him for a raise. I mentioned that I'd been there now 18 months, was now a college student, and was worth a 50 cent raise (so I'd be making 25 cents more than New Guy). So I would have gone from $3.90/hour to $4.40/hr. Boss says nope.
I ask why I'm being paid less than New Guy. Boss says it's because he does swing shift (3pm-11pm). I remind him that *I* do swing shift, too! And I am worth more. Still nope. Even worse, he dared me - "If you think you're worth more, go find someone else to pay it."
So I go up the hill to the JC's job board for college students, find a listing for a small Mom and Pop copy shop in town (coincidentally, half a mile from my new apartment), and go in person to apply. I am hired on the spot, to start the next day, at $4.75 per hour.
I then ride my badass new scooter (bought two weeks before, paid for in cash, from job savings) to the quicky mart, and tender my immediate resignation (no one ever gave two weeks notice for the cashier/stocking job). He's dumbfounded, and I am delighted. It could only have been more epic if I'd managed it on the holiday weekend a couple of weeks earlier.
That was in 1983, and it still gives me joy to have proven to that old misogynistic assh*le that there were young women who wouldn't put up with his sh*t.
Even worse, he dared me - "If you think you're worth more, go find someone else to pay it."
@Sandi_k love, love, LOVE that story.
And in the end he is proven to be a complete moron and you were proven to be an excellent clerk who follows directions. His direction to go find someone else to pay you more was his last order and followed to a tee.
Ha!
That was it. Dispute settled in DH's favor, and he proceeded to de-PTSD for the next 6 months while continuing to pay his Mustachian-level bills from the UE checks.
@Sandi_k
You win for the best new stories today!
Instead he told me, "You started at this company underpaid and you will always be underpaid as long as you work here."
Instead he told me, "You started at this company underpaid and you will always be underpaid as long as you work here."
Holy crap, I can't believe he told you that straight up. That's practically telling your employee to leave for greener pastures.
Instead he told me, "You started at this company underpaid and you will always be underpaid as long as you work here."
Holy crap, I can't believe he told you that straight up. That's practically telling your employee to leave for greener pastures.
I pointed out (because for some reason these dorks making $300K per year running large sections of a multi-national corporation simply don't get it) that if I hired some nobody from off the street I would have to pay them the higher amount. They would come with zero company-specific business acumen, loyalty, etc. and there was no guarantee they would work out for the long term. Still got push back and it took a few more weeks of crap to resolve it.
I'm so excited to have one of my first FU money experiences today! It's little, but mighty.
I am a designer and this weekend (Ugh - weekend. Strike one.) I had a client contact me about a job. The last line of her e-mail, verbatim, was "if you're interested, I can explain exactly what we need on a very tight timeline and even tighter budget." Gawd, what a horrible proposition!
Of course there are a few reasons to consider a job like that... if it's an important client or could lead to other, better jobs, etc. But that didn't apply here. In past years, I would have had to take the job because I needed the money, period. Now I'm able to discriminate, and I kind of feel like throwing myself a party because it's so awesome. Three cheers for being able to take a pass on the crappy assignments of life!!
I'm so excited to have one of my first FU money experiences today! It's little, but mighty.I prob would have asked how tight the budget was (maybe you did?) One person's tight budget is another person's flush one.
I am a designer and this weekend (Ugh - weekend. Strike one.) I had a client contact me about a job. The last line of her e-mail, verbatim, was "if you're interested, I can explain exactly what we need on a very tight timeline and even tighter budget." Gawd, what a horrible proposition!
Of course there are a few reasons to consider a job like that... if it's an important client or could lead to other, better jobs, etc. But that didn't apply here. In past years, I would have had to take the job because I needed the money, period. Now I'm able to discriminate, and I kind of feel like throwing myself a party because it's so awesome. Three cheers for being able to take a pass on the crappy assignments of life!!
I work at an amazing organization now and in a management role where I've been able to right size salaries and bring people up to where they should be in the industry. I am loving what I do every day and my emergency fund means I can FU if anything ever changes. It's a great place to be!
I'm so excited to have one of my first FU money experiences today! It's little, but mighty.Hip hip hurray!
I am a designer and this weekend (Ugh - weekend. Strike one.) I had a client contact me about a job. The last line of her e-mail, verbatim, was "if you're interested, I can explain exactly what we need on a very tight timeline and even tighter budget." Gawd, what a horrible proposition!
Of course there are a few reasons to consider a job like that... if it's an important client or could lead to other, better jobs, etc. But that didn't apply here. In past years, I would have had to take the job because I needed the money, period. Now I'm able to discriminate, and I kind of feel like throwing myself a party because it's so awesome. Three cheers for being able to take a pass on the crappy assignments of life!!
... I started looking for a new work-at-home job. I found it in less than a month and am now writing this post from my desk at my own house. My commute is 20 feet from Bedroom 1 to Bedroom 3. :) My wife is so happy to have me home more, and I got a 20% raise to boot!
I can honestly say that this thread has changed my entire life for the better over the past year. It's amazing to me how much life improvement one can get just by being able to say NO to unreasonable work demands.
... I started looking for a new work-at-home job. I found it in less than a month and am now writing this post from my desk at my own house. My commute is 20 feet from Bedroom 1 to Bedroom 3. :) My wife is so happy to have me home more, and I got a 20% raise to boot!
How did you find the work-at-home job? I haven't had much luck finding reliable opportunities.
Being able to find a work-at-home job very much depends on your choice of career. The technology that I specialize in just happens to be very easy to do remotely. Forward-thinking companies realize that they can save a lot of money on office space, etc. by enabling remote workers. As long as the job gets done, who cares where it's done?
If remote work is important to you, but no such jobs exist in your field, you may want to consider a career change. If you do, I hope it works out for you.
I might as well say that after finding a house that is in a great location for me I feel trapped because I can't find one that's in an even better location.Being able to find a work-at-home job very much depends on your choice of career. The technology that I specialize in just happens to be very easy to do remotely. Forward-thinking companies realize that they can save a lot of money on office space, etc. by enabling remote workers. As long as the job gets done, who cares where it's done?
If remote work is important to you, but no such jobs exist in your field, you may want to consider a career change. If you do, I hope it works out for you.
I'm am IT manager by experience and a full stack developer by skill. I currently work 100% from home (hundreds of miles from the nearest office!). I landed the position 10 years ago as a regular employee at our headquarters; work from home was negotiated later. My job isn't bad, but I feel trapped because I don't know how to find a similar position.
Instead he told me, "You started at this company underpaid and you will always be underpaid as long as you work here."
Holy crap, I can't believe he told you that straight up. That's practically telling your employee to leave for greener pastures.
Not in the US, unless the context was some form of racial, religious, gender or similar basis for the discrimination.Instead he told me, "You started at this company underpaid and you will always be underpaid as long as you work here."
Holy crap, I can't believe he told you that straight up. That's practically telling your employee to leave for greener pastures.
That is literally telling you to file a wage discrimination suit.
Instead he told me, "You started at this company underpaid and you will always be underpaid as long as you work here."
Holy crap, I can't believe he told you that straight up. That's practically telling your employee to leave for greener pastures.
Maybe they were tired of him making them look bad.
I work at an amazing organization now and in a management role where I've been able to right size salaries and bring people up to where they should be in the industry. I am loving what I do every day and my emergency fund means I can FU if anything ever changes. It's a great place to be!
Good for you man, that's an awesome outcome.
The lesson here is: people will get away with whatever you let them get away with, so know your worth, and re-educate yourself from time to time so you're always in the know.
And on top of that, my manager was constantly trying to get me to do extra work on the side that my company was actually billing for, but I was paid a salary, so no extra money for me. "You're stuck in a hotel room all week, so you have plenty of time to do this extra work" was his constant excuse.
It's not all that Epic but it was nice to be asked to apply for a sure thing promotion to a job I didn't want and reject it immediately. It's a pretty big raise, they said. I save half my income and mostly like my job, I said. Nothing at all would change in my daily life except that I would mostly dislike my job and be saving a somewhat higher percent of my income. Find another sucker.
It's not all that Epic but it was nice to be asked to apply for a sure thing promotion to a job I didn't want and reject it immediately. It's a pretty big raise, they said. I save half my income and mostly like my job, I said. Nothing at all would change in my daily life except that I would mostly dislike my job and be saving a somewhat higher percent of my income. Find another sucker.
Totally agree, though I'd rate it as "Epic", with a capital "E".It's not all that Epic but it was nice to be asked to apply for a sure thing promotion to a job I didn't want and reject it immediately. It's a pretty big raise, they said. I save half my income and mostly like my job, I said. Nothing at all would change in my daily life except that I would mostly dislike my job and be saving a somewhat higher percent of my income. Find another sucker.
Isn’t avoiding BS spendy pants consumption so you can also avoid wasting your life on BS work you don’t enjoy the reason this blog and forum exist? I’d rate that as epic.
It was nice to be missed but much better to be well paid. :)
Totally agree, though I'd rate it as "Epic", with a capital "E".It's not all that Epic but it was nice to be asked to apply for a sure thing promotion to a job I didn't want and reject it immediately. It's a pretty big raise, they said. I save half my income and mostly like my job, I said. Nothing at all would change in my daily life except that I would mostly dislike my job and be saving a somewhat higher percent of my income. Find another sucker.
Isn’t avoiding BS spendy pants consumption so you can also avoid wasting your life on BS work you don’t enjoy the reason this blog and forum exist? I’d rate that as epic.
It's not all that Epic but it was nice to be asked to apply for a sure thing promotion to a job I didn't want and reject it immediately. It's a pretty big raise, they said. I save half my income and mostly like my job, I said. Nothing at all would change in my daily life except that I would mostly dislike my job and be saving a somewhat higher percent of my income. Find another sucker.
Aw, thanks all!I agree it was completely EPIC!
This was reinforced by talking with a buddy who was shocked that I would turn it down, told me that he had never even considered rejecting a promotion, that that was the only way he could imagine saving money, and that he would be much happier in his previous role at his company, but "that's just not now it works." (He could save by eating food made at home more than a couple nights a month but that's a different conversation and of course his business).
I feel like being very conscious that I don't have to make default consumption choices not only makes it easy to save, but supports not making default earning choices. I don't need another $25k/year before taxes if it won't make a huge difference to my retirement date (which is mostly driven by varying assumptions about market returns at this point) and will make a huge negative difference in my quality of life.
I also talked to work bosses more and both said what promotions I would consider and laid out what conditions I would need to even contemplate the position they want me in, which they seemed to take on board as real possibilities. We shall see, but either way I'm fine and coming at it from a position of strength!
I started doing research: talking with folks I knew in the industry, reading online forums, and looking at job posting to put together a number right in the middle of what the industry was paying for my promoted role. I took that information to my boss at my next one-on-one and proceeded to walk him through what I was looking for in salary when they finally promoted me and why I thought those numbers were fair.
He was clearly stunned by the conversation and didn't even take a second to process what I'd said. Instead he told me, "You started at this company underpaid and you will always be underpaid as long as you work here. The promotion is not going to be negotiable and it's more like a 5% increase." I pointed out that the role should be paid at what the role is worth and not be based on my current salary. He shrugged his shoulders and basically said, "That's the way that it is and I'm not going to fight to get you any more."
That was the moment I knew it was time to leave. It was suddenly clear that they knew they were taking advantage of me. They knew I was ignorant of what the industry was paying and used that leverage to severely underpay me while hiring other folks at 40-60% more than me. And even when I proved to be one of the strongest assets on their team, the only response was a shrug of the shoulders and a "that's the way that it is."
Teen#1 gave their Epic FU announcement to their employer - and left. And days later the reality of quitting without a job has set in. Oh well, lesson learned. Don't repeat it. That child's super power is not learning their lessons until testing them IRL.
We talked about that a couple of months ago b/c we knew the teen was unhappy with the person they had been paired up with. That person had alot of rough edges.
Better to learn this lesson now with no responsibilities or bills and while living at home... Time to go find another job kid...
He was clearly stunned by the conversation and didn't even take a second to process what I'd said. Instead he told me, "You started at this company underpaid and you will always be underpaid as long as you work here. The promotion is not going to be negotiable and it's more like a 5% increase."
How megacorps work has some complicated and convoluted reasoning behind it that will only make sense if you start thinking at scale.
As an employee, however, you operate within that given environment, with little opportunity to change that. As an individual, I believe the most rational stance is to recognize that:
1. Megacorp has no loyalty to you, and you shouldn't have any to it either.
2. You, however, need to have a strong loyalty to the individuals you work with, i.e. your team. They are your future network. You want to be remembered as a good team member by your teammates.
#2 and #1 often conflict. When it does, I choose to let #2 take precedence.
I don't get it, don't they do the math and realize that it costs a whole lot of money to replace someone?! It's worth investing a little bit in your good employees so that you don't have to train and retrain.
My current job is losing people in droves. The turnover there has always been absurdly high, but this is worse than that. Something like half of HR left in the past few weeks. It's like rats leaving a sinking ship.
The square root of the number of people in a domain do 50% of the work. This means that in a company of 10 employees, 3 of them do 1/2 the work. The remaining 50% of the work is done by the other 7 people.
I don't get it, don't they do the math and realize that it costs a whole lot of money to replace someone?! It's worth investing a little bit in your good employees so that you don't have to train and retrain.
My current job is losing people in droves. The turnover there has always been absurdly high, but this is worse than that. Something like half of HR left in the past few weeks. It's like rats leaving a sinking ship.
I don't get it, don't they do the math and realize that it costs a whole lot of money to replace someone?! It's worth investing a little bit in your good employees so that you don't have to train and retrain.
My current job is losing people in droves. The turnover there has always been absurdly high, but this is worse than that. Something like half of HR left in the past few weeks. It's like rats leaving a sinking ship.
I've been down this road before, more than once. I'm prepared for the whole company to fold at a moment's notice, and I don't keep anything personal on my work computer ever! And yes, I'm looking for a change myself :-)I don't get it, don't they do the math and realize that it costs a whole lot of money to replace someone?! It's worth investing a little bit in your good employees so that you don't have to train and retrain.
My current job is losing people in droves. The turnover there has always been absurdly high, but this is worse than that. Something like half of HR left in the past few weeks. It's like rats leaving a sinking ship.
HR is leaving!?
Make sure you've backed up (to home) any personal information/items you have at work. Put on your life jacket, which should be stuffed full of resumes. Don't stand under C-suit balconys.
I've been down this road before, more than once. I'm prepared for the whole company to fold at a moment's notice, and I don't keep anything personal on my work computer ever! And yes, I'm looking for a change myself :-)
How megacorps work has some complicated and convoluted reasoning behind it that will only make sense if you start thinking at scale.
As an employee, however, you operate within that given environment, with little opportunity to change that. As an individual, I believe the most rational stance is to recognize that:
1. Megacorp has no loyalty to you, and you shouldn't have any to it either.
2. You, however, need to have a strong loyalty to the individuals you work with, i.e. your team. They are your future network. You want to be remembered as a good team member by your teammates.
#2 and #1 often conflict. When it does, I choose to let #2 take precedence.
How megacorps work has some complicated and convoluted reasoning behind it that will only make sense if you start thinking at scale.
As an employee, however, you operate within that given environment, with little opportunity to change that. As an individual, I believe the most rational stance is to recognize that:
1. Megacorp has no loyalty to you, and you shouldn't have any to it either.
2. You, however, need to have a strong loyalty to the individuals you work with, i.e. your team. They are your future network. You want to be remembered as a good team member by your teammates.
#2 and #1 often conflict. When it does, I choose to let #2 take precedence.
When I worked at the Big Company, I realized several years in after they started their rounds of downsizing / rightsizing / spinoffs / reinventions of the wheel that for all their previous declarations of valuing their employees, that the people who actually believed and practiced this were gone (at the top at least) replaced by those who simply thought everyone was a cog that could fit every wheel which was crazy considering the various projects and business units they had. That was when I switched my focus from No. 1 to No. 2. But there were those employees, especially long-term ones, who could not believe that the previously "layoff-proof" Big Company had changed, that somehow it still deserved their fealty (#1) And when some employees who remained got hired away by former coworkers/bosses who got canned and landed on their feet elsewhere, sometimes for a better job with better pay, they still were shocked that someone would leave (#1 conflicting with #2).
Even when I realized that the Big Company was going down like the Titantic with its days numbered, I knew that at the very least I had a good network for the future in place (#2). That was my #2 "lifeboat" and it paved (or rather I rowed?) my way for the next job.
Interestingly enough you also see no 1 among many young employees that have newly graduated. You often see them shouting out how fantastic it is working for company x because you have had a really interesting day for planning for world domination. After a couple of years you realise that you have the same bs every year without nothing changing or that you rather spend your weekend with your family instead of planning for world domination. It is not actually a reward to go on that trip rather it feels like a punishment or a must do.
I worked previously for a megacorp and basically the only thing that matterad was how much money you pulled in. Oh, they talked about other values and how the employees were their most valuable asset bla bla. But their words did not match their actions.
I also give my loyalty to my coworkers and my boss if I think she/he deserves it. I have always had excellent backning from my coworkers when I have been looking for something new.
...
Interestingly enough you also see no 1 among many young employees that have newly graduated. You often see them shouting out how fantastic it is working for company x because you have had a really interesting day for planning for world domination. After a couple of years you realise that you have the same bs every year without nothing changing or that you rather spend your weekend with your family instead of planning for world domination. It is not actually a reward to go on that trip rather it feels like a punishment or a must do.
I worked previously for a megacorp and basically the only thing that matterad was how much money you pulled in. Oh, they talked about other values and how the employees were their most valuable asset bla bla. But their words did not match their actions.
I also give my loyalty to my coworkers and my boss if I think she/he deserves it. I have always had excellent backning from my coworkers when I have been looking for something new.
That happens at small companies too in my experience. Though to be fair the guy running that company did come from a mega corp. It all fell apart when the money stopped flowing in, but at least it gave me an story to post here forty some pages ago......
Small companies are bad. The small, husband and wife run companies are the absolute worst. No matter how smart each are as individuals, once they're egging each other on it rapidly becomes dumb and dumber. NEVER again will I work for a husband and wife team.That was my experience too. Can't say I miss it that's for sure.
Small companies are bad. The small, husband and wife run companies are the absolute worst. No matter how smart each are as individuals, once they're egging each other on it rapidly becomes dumb and dumber. NEVER again will I work for a husband and wife team.That was my experience too. Can't say I miss it that's for sure.
A friend of mine did her Master's project in Applied Mathematics in a small company and came to a surprising conclusion. Company: printing fabrics on-demand; staff: husband (in charge of printing), wife (admin), husband's brother (representative, on the road all day). The company was not making the profit it could make and asked for help. The conclusion: the husband had to grow a spine! Everytime the brother confirmed a sale, he called the wife, who then told the husband to stop everything and fulfill this specific order. This messed up the normal run of the small factory and cost them a lot of time in extra cleaning of the paint rollers, etc. :)
Small companies are bad. The small, husband and wife run companies are the absolute worst. No matter how smart each are as individuals, once they're egging each other on it rapidly becomes dumb and dumber. NEVER again will I work for a husband and wife team.That was my experience too. Can't say I miss it that's for sure.
Interesting. Possibly the best place I’ve ever worked was husband and wife small business. The pay was inline with the work (restaurant) and the environment was generally very positive. I actually had a mini FU money story the last summer I worked there. I thought I’d make some extra cash by taking a second job at another restaurant (a megacorp for my small town). I told the boss at the first place I wouldn’t be able to work the occasional overtime because of the new job. Started the new job and it was a total cluster... I quit after the first night because the place was so miserable and I didn’t need a second income that badly... The next day I told the owner “I can work in a kitchen that badly run after working here put me back on the occasional overtime” and immediately got a raise!
A friend of mine did her Master's project in Applied Mathematics in a small company and came to a surprising conclusion. Company: printing fabrics on-demand; staff: husband (in charge of printing), wife (admin), husband's brother (representative, on the road all day). The company was not making the profit it could make and asked for help. The conclusion: the husband had to grow a spine! Everytime the brother confirmed a sale, he called the wife, who then told the husband to stop everything and fulfill this specific order. This messed up the normal run of the small factory and cost them a lot of time in extra cleaning of the paint rollers, etc. :)
That's pretty much howthe husband/wife teamevery company I've ever worked at operated in the place I worked. Everything they wanted was urgent and important, even if actually there were far more urgent and important client or outside agency related tasks to be done. Yeah, I'll stop getting together information requested by the auditor that has to be done TODAY just so I can spend an hour calling your patients to confirm they got a non-urgent text that the software says they did in fact get all while you toddle out for a midday run??? Or hey, sure I'll stop invoicing which generates actual money coming in so I can babysit your kid for the afternoon?!
They had no idea at all how to separate what they wanted in the moment, from the tasks that actually were important from a business standpoint. And they were plain unprofessional as well.
Heh, I work for a small company, and I push back on this at least a few times each week: "Is this a higher priority than <insert current top priority project>?" I've seen it cause the requester to pause for a few moments to consider it. It's lovely, because it 1) keeps the blame away from me if something gets delayed due to shifting priorities, and 2) it's a helpful reminder to The Powers That Be that their resources are finite.
That's pretty much howthe husband/wife teamevery company I've ever worked at operated in the place I worked. Everything they wanted was urgent and important, even if actually there were far more urgent and important client or outside agency related tasks to be done. Yeah, I'll stop getting together information requested by the auditor that has to be done TODAY just so I can spend an hour calling your patients to confirm they got a non-urgent text that the software says they did in fact get all while you toddle out for a midday run??? Or hey, sure I'll stop invoicing which generates actual money coming in so I can babysit your kid for the afternoon?!
They had no idea at all how to separate what they wanted in the moment, from the tasks that actually were important from a business standpoint. And they were plain unprofessional as well.
Updated your quote where bold = me. I feel like every company i've ever worked at has failed miserably with prioritization. Everything is always high priority, so nothing ever gets done.
Heh, I work for a small company, and I push back on this at least a few times each week: "Is this a higher priority than <insert current top priority project>?" I've seen it cause the requester to pause for a few moments to consider it. It's lovely, because it 1) keeps the blame away from me if something gets delayed due to shifting priorities, and 2) it's a helpful reminder to The Powers That Be that their resources are finite.
Heh, I work for a small company, and I push back on this at least a few times each week: "Is this a higher priority than <insert current top priority project>?" I've seen it cause the requester to pause for a few moments to consider it. It's lovely, because it 1) keeps the blame away from me if something gets delayed due to shifting priorities, and 2) it's a helpful reminder to The Powers That Be that their resources are finite.
There are some good scripts on https://www.askamanager.org/ about how to bring this up, some variation of your script, or something like "I can do that today, but it means that ____ won't get done until Friday..." with the additional recommendation of doing this via email/slack/etc when possible so there's a record of the conversation.
A friend of mine did her Master's project in Applied Mathematics in a small company and came to a surprising conclusion. Company: printing fabrics on-demand; staff: husband (in charge of printing), wife (admin), husband's brother (representative, on the road all day). The company was not making the profit it could make and asked for help. The conclusion: the husband had to grow a spine! Everytime the brother confirmed a sale, he called the wife, who then told the husband to stop everything and fulfill this specific order. This messed up the normal run of the small factory and cost them a lot of time in extra cleaning of the paint rollers, etc. :)
That's pretty much howthe husband/wife teamevery company I've ever worked at operated in the place I worked. Everything they wanted was urgent and important, even if actually there were far more urgent and important client or outside agency related tasks to be done. Yeah, I'll stop getting together information requested by the auditor that has to be done TODAY just so I can spend an hour calling your patients to confirm they got a non-urgent text that the software says they did in fact get all while you toddle out for a midday run??? Or hey, sure I'll stop invoicing which generates actual money coming in so I can babysit your kid for the afternoon?!
They had no idea at all how to separate what they wanted in the moment, from the tasks that actually were important from a business standpoint. And they were plain unprofessional as well.
Updated your quote where bold = me. I feel like every company i've ever worked at has failed miserably with prioritization. Everything is always high priority, so nothing ever gets done.
Copied from my journal.
So our Executive Director came in my office and told me she wanted to take on a 'leadership role' now that my supervisor was leaving. I said I would need the title of interim director and the according pay. She immediately shot that down. When I said that wouldn't work for me she started threatening me with double speak and dog whistles. I decided life is too short to put up with that crap and sent HR my two weeks notice.
I have some money saved and a part time job. But if anyone wants to buy one of my short stories, here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CKSBZT1
Just an update. I spent the last few months bumming around, working as a waitress (and filling a $15,000 wholesale order for that business), reading a lot of books about Venice, Istanbul, and the Medicis, getting certified as a Stand Up Paddleboarding instructor, dating a bit, and volunteering. The library where I volunteer hired me. I start on Monday. The position is part time, but it's enough to pay my bills, and I'll be back in the state retirement system (which I didn't know when I applied!). My funds are at roughly the same place they were when I left, and I'm saving for a trip to Malta. This sabbatical turned out really well for me! :3
A friend of mine did her Master's project in Applied Mathematics in a small company and came to a surprising conclusion. Company: printing fabrics on-demand; staff: husband (in charge of printing), wife (admin), husband's brother (representative, on the road all day). The company was not making the profit it could make and asked for help. The conclusion: the husband had to grow a spine! Everytime the brother confirmed a sale, he called the wife, who then told the husband to stop everything and fulfill this specific order. This messed up the normal run of the small factory and cost them a lot of time in extra cleaning of the paint rollers, etc. :)
That's pretty much howthe husband/wife teamevery company I've ever worked at operated in the place I worked. Everything they wanted was urgent and important, even if actually there were far more urgent and important client or outside agency related tasks to be done. Yeah, I'll stop getting together information requested by the auditor that has to be done TODAY just so I can spend an hour calling your patients to confirm they got a non-urgent text that the software says they did in fact get all while you toddle out for a midday run??? Or hey, sure I'll stop invoicing which generates actual money coming in so I can babysit your kid for the afternoon?!
They had no idea at all how to separate what they wanted in the moment, from the tasks that actually were important from a business standpoint. And they were plain unprofessional as well.
Updated your quote where bold = me. I feel like every company i've ever worked at has failed miserably with prioritization. Everything is always high priority, so nothing ever gets done.
heheh. I worked for a small company where one of the partners (the business minded guy) worked 8-5 and the other partner (the creative genius programmer) worked 11ish to 2am-ish. In the mornings, partner #1 would give me one set of priorities and in the afternoon, partner #2 gave me a different set. It was not easy, but it was fun because I loved that company and what we were building. I tried to avoid partner #1 in the mornings because I didn't want to follow his instructions.
Holy crap, I can't believe he told you that straight up. That's practically telling your employee to leave for greener pastures.
Holy crap, I can't believe he told you that straight up. That's practically telling your employee to leave for greener pastures.
In some cases, an excellent manager will tell you exactly that. (They'll tell you because the value your relationship more than their job).
In a company I am familiar with, once you are hired, you only get a percentage increase. I felt I was underpaid and it was confirmed when I was promoted and people who were doing less than me were in the same position I head before changing, were paid more than me.
The reasons companies don't pay these SUPERSTAR people better is:
1. The employee may never find out.
2. The employee may find out but never complain.
Early in my professional career I found out I was underpaid and complained. Actually had the guts to suggest that I may need to talk to the Labor Relations Board regarding equal pay for equal work. Netted me a 40% raise.
3. The employee is too lazy to find a better option (or they keep employee too busy to have time to interview).
About a year later I got a better offer from an manager and turned in my notice. Told them the new salary in my resignation letter. Two days before my last day they realized I might consider a counter offer. Got me a second 40% raise. (Pissed off the other company but they, a startup, went under within a year.)
4. If they are motivated by money first, they aren't company people and will probably leave when times get stressful anyway. Better to have employees you can depend on and the undependable will weed themselves out through salary demands. (Or they know some employees will just outgrow them financially. Budgets for that type of company can't handle large salaries due to small margins or bad management).
I left for good about 18 months later because I could read the writing on the wall. The company had lost momentum in the market and was about to crash. Out of 17 people in my marketing department, I was the first to leave but within 6 months there were only 2 people left. Everyone else had quit, from VP to Administrator. I just beat the stress.
5. At some point an employee can only work at 100 MPH for so long. Paying them a big raise might curb that work ethic in because of the feeling they "finally made it" from an earnings standpoint.
and finally...
#6. EVERYONE IS REPLACEABLE.
The might not hire the exact same as you, but they might hire two other people to do what you did. One will be bad, the other will be good. In 6-12 months, one will leave through firing or on their own, the other will work to be close to the level you were. The rest of your team that remains will actually have to pick up a bit of the load SUPERSTAR employee was carrying, but things will normalize in 3 months.
I started doing research: talking with folks I knew in the industry, reading online forums, and looking at job posting to put together a number right in the middle of what the industry was paying for my promoted role. I took that information to my boss at my next one-on-one and proceeded to walk him through what I was looking for in salary when they finally promoted me and why I thought those numbers were fair.
He was clearly stunned by the conversation and didn't even take a second to process what I'd said. Instead he told me, "You started at this company underpaid and you will always be underpaid as long as you work here. The promotion is not going to be negotiable and it's more like a 5% increase." I pointed out that the role should be paid at what the role is worth and not be based on my current salary. He shrugged his shoulders and basically said, "That's the way that it is and I'm not going to fight to get you any more."
That was the moment I knew it was time to leave. It was suddenly clear that they knew they were taking advantage of me. They knew I was ignorant of what the industry was paying and used that leverage to severely underpay me while hiring other folks at 40-60% more than me. And even when I proved to be one of the strongest assets on their team, the only response was a shrug of the shoulders and a "that's the way that it is."
How megacorps work has some complicated and convoluted reasoning behind it that will only make sense if you start thinking at scale.
As an employee, however, you operate within that given environment, with little opportunity to change that. As an individual, I believe the most rational stance is to recognize that:
1. Megacorp has no loyalty to you, and you shouldn't have any to it either.
2. You, however, need to have a strong loyalty to the individuals you work with, i.e. your team. They are your future network. You want to be remembered as a good team member by your teammates.
#2 and #1 often conflict. When it does, I choose to let #2 take precedence.
So, in your story, the fact that you were "surprised" that you were underpaid indicates you did not keep updated how much you are worth in the market. That indicates a violation of rule #1 that I follow.
Then, when you found out about that from the grapevine, your assume your manager, or his manager, has the ability to remedy that situation. 99% of the time that is not the case. The only time your manager(s) can do anything is if/when you show up with a 2-week-notice with another offer in hand. Even that gambit is risky. If your manager decides to fight for better salary - he has to burn a significant amount of political capital.
The most rational choice in this case is to take another offer, give your two week notice and and politely mention that you got a better opportunity while giving the notice, and make preparations to leave. If they do want to keep you, they might try to give a counter - but I am usually *very* uncomfortable taking those (I've been there, and declined it) for many reasons. THEN, some time later, a year or two, if your older job wants to bring you back with appropriate raises and stuff - you can move back. DW had this almost happen last year when her old employer gave her an offer without any interview when they heard she was looking. This worked massively to her advantage since she could negotiate hardball (with extreme politeness) with the new job where she actually landed. She got a 50%+ raise this way from a single job hop.
I write this not with an intention to criticize you, but with the hope that more people can start acting rationally in these situations. Very few do. It is hard - as I can see when I try to advise DW to act opposite to what her instinctive reactions are in a given situation.
He was clearly stunned by the conversation and didn't even take a second to process what I'd said. Instead he told me, "You started at this company underpaid and you will always be underpaid as long as you work here. The promotion is not going to be negotiable and it's more like a 5% increase."
I have a friend who, when starting a new job, was told something like "We pay slightly below market wages, but we want better than average performers!" He and I were both puzzled by that contradiction, but he took the job anyway (his division/location at previous employer was shutting down). I think he has generally been happy at his new job over the last decade, and has been promoted, but he is also very easy going so wasn't likely to make any big waves about things like pay.
In my own case, at a previous employer, I started somewhat underpaid but so were the other people at the company because it was a startup, not a software one but the old fashioned kind that made physical things and so took many years to grow. Some years in, out of the blue one year I got a 15% raise because they finally were big enough and had the resources to do a market analysis and increase the pay of the people there who were underpaid. I realize that is contradictory to the experiences most people in this thread have talked about, but there was a reason I stayed there for almost 2 decades, they were a good place to work for most of that.
Holy crap, I can't believe he told you that straight up. That's practically telling your employee to leave for greener pastures.
In some cases, an excellent manager will tell you exactly that. (They'll tell you because the value your relationship more than their job).
In a company I am familiar with, once you are hired, you only get a percentage increase. I felt I was underpaid and it was confirmed when I was promoted and people who were doing less than me were in the same position I head before changing, were paid more than me.
The reasons companies don't pay these SUPERSTAR people better is:
1. The employee may never find out.
2. The employee may find out but never complain.
3. The employee is too lazy to find a better option (or they keep employee too busy to have time to interview).
4. If they are motivated by money first, they aren't company people and will probably leave when times get stressful anyway. Better to have employees you can depend on and the undependable will weed themselves out through salary demands. (Or they know some employees will just outgrow them financially. Budgets for that type of company can't handle large salaries due to small margins or bad management).
5. At some point an employee can only work at 100 MPH for so long. Paying them a big raise might curb that work ethic in because of the feeling they "finally made it" from an earnings standpoint.
and finally...
#6. EVERYONE IS REPLACEABLE.
The might not hire the exact same as you, but they might hire two other people to do what you did. One will be bad, the other will be good. In 6-12 months, one will leave through firing or on their own, the other will work to be close to the level you were. The rest of your team that remains will actually have to pick up a bit of the load SUPERSTAR employee was carrying, but things will normalize in 3 months.
All in all, I will need to have a 1 on 1 talk with my boss when the future of the company is announced. And I need to discuss why I don't feel comfortable at work anymore, in a way that the boss will understand. I'm not sure it's even possible for me to change the company culture even if my boss would agree with me. I think there's a fair chance we'll either decide to part ways or my contract will not be renewed in October. I've not got a lot of liquid cash right now, but I could sell off investments if I had to. I have a side hustle that would probably bring in just enough income for my half of the bills and I could always find a side job waiting tables or something. I'm just soooo tired of office culture and never fitting in. It's almost worse than high school.I'm sorry you are going through this. It is so tough. I don't have it that bad (high school was worse, for sure!) but office politics and difficult people make work...wearying.
QuoteAll in all, I will need to have a 1 on 1 talk with my boss when the future of the company is announced. And I need to discuss why I don't feel comfortable at work anymore, in a way that the boss will understand. I'm not sure it's even possible for me to change the company culture even if my boss would agree with me. I think there's a fair chance we'll either decide to part ways or my contract will not be renewed in October. I've not got a lot of liquid cash right now, but I could sell off investments if I had to. I have a side hustle that would probably bring in just enough income for my half of the bills and I could always find a side job waiting tables or something. I'm just soooo tired of office culture and never fitting in. It's almost worse than high school.I'm sorry you are going through this. It is so tough. I don't have it that bad (high school was worse, for sure!) but office politics and difficult people make work...wearying.
QuoteAll in all, I will need to have a 1 on 1 talk with my boss when the future of the company is announced. And I need to discuss why I don't feel comfortable at work anymore, in a way that the boss will understand. I'm not sure it's even possible for me to change the company culture even if my boss would agree with me. I think there's a fair chance we'll either decide to part ways or my contract will not be renewed in October. I've not got a lot of liquid cash right now, but I could sell off investments if I had to. I have a side hustle that would probably bring in just enough income for my half of the bills and I could always find a side job waiting tables or something. I'm just soooo tired of office culture and never fitting in. It's almost worse than high school.I'm sorry you are going through this. It is so tough. I don't have it that bad (high school was worse, for sure!) but office politics and difficult people make work...wearying.
<snip, for conciseness, and because you don't have to defend who you are!>
It seems that so far I always end up in organisations dominated by older males who hire younger males who are just like them. There are plenty of other women in grad school with me but it's said they don't last long in this field, which is why they aren't hired, but I dunno, maybe there's a reason they all leave the field so quickly and it's not because women are difficult? ( I think you're an engineer if I remember correctly, I can imagine that's also a very male dominated field)
I'm really good at what I'm specializing in, but I'm not good in all aspects of my general job. Let's say I'm much better at designing high quality baskets than at fixing the looms for underwater basket weaving when they break. I'm trying really hard to becoming better at loom fixing, I watch youtube video's about it in my spare time, but trying to improve means I'm asking lots of questions to coworkers and I work slowly which they perceive as me being incompetent. And of course, I am not good at loom fixing, but hey, I'm not a loom mechanic, I never claimed to be, please let me design the fancy baskets that we can sell for $$$ because that's what I'm really good at. When I do get to design it's always a big success.
QuoteAll in all, I will need to have a 1 on 1 talk with my boss when the future of the company is announced. And I need to discuss why I don't feel comfortable at work anymore, in a way that the boss will understand. I'm not sure it's even possible for me to change the company culture even if my boss would agree with me. I think there's a fair chance we'll either decide to part ways or my contract will not be renewed in October. I've not got a lot of liquid cash right now, but I could sell off investments if I had to. I have a side hustle that would probably bring in just enough income for my half of the bills and I could always find a side job waiting tables or something. I'm just soooo tired of office culture and never fitting in. It's almost worse than high school.I'm sorry you are going through this. It is so tough. I don't have it that bad (high school was worse, for sure!) but office politics and difficult people make work...wearying.
I had my own tribe of nerds and goths in highschool, I don't have that here. It's not that I'm an extremely weird antisocial person, but I am a woman, I'm a bit of a geek, I'm not into fashion, I'm not particularly nurturing, I'm into music and crafts and history books and stuff like that. I'm not into owning fancy stuff. Just your average mustachian I suppose :) It seems that so far I always end up in organisations dominated by older males who hire younger males who are just like them. There are plenty of other women in grad school with me but it's said they don't last long in this field, which is why they aren't hired, but I dunno, maybe there's a reason they all leave the field so quickly and it's not because women are difficult? ( I think you're an engineer if I remember correctly, I can imagine that's also a very male dominated field)
I'm really good at what I'm specializing in, but I'm not good in all aspects of my general job. Let's say I'm much better at designing high quality baskets than at fixing the looms for underwater basket weaving when they break. I'm trying really hard to becoming better at loom fixing, I watch youtube video's about it in my spare time, but trying to improve means I'm asking lots of questions to coworkers and I work slowly which they perceive as me being incompetent. And of course, I am not good at loom fixing, but hey, I'm not a loom mechanic, I never claimed to be, please let me design the fancy baskets that we can sell for $$$ because that's what I'm really good at. When I do get to design it's always a big success.
QuoteAll in all, I will need to have a 1 on 1 talk with my boss when the future of the company is announced. And I need to discuss why I don't feel comfortable at work anymore, in a way that the boss will understand. I'm not sure it's even possible for me to change the company culture even if my boss would agree with me. I think there's a fair chance we'll either decide to part ways or my contract will not be renewed in October. I've not got a lot of liquid cash right now, but I could sell off investments if I had to. I have a side hustle that would probably bring in just enough income for my half of the bills and I could always find a side job waiting tables or something. I'm just soooo tired of office culture and never fitting in. It's almost worse than high school.I'm sorry you are going through this. It is so tough. I don't have it that bad (high school was worse, for sure!) but office politics and difficult people make work...wearying.
I had my own tribe of nerds and goths in highschool, I don't have that here. It's not that I'm an extremely weird antisocial person, but I am a woman, I'm a bit of a geek, I'm not into fashion, I'm not particularly nurturing, I'm into music and crafts and history books and stuff like that. I'm not into owning fancy stuff. Just your average mustachian I suppose :) It seems that so far I always end up in organisations dominated by older males who hire younger males who are just like them. There are plenty of other women in grad school with me but it's said they don't last long in this field, which is why they aren't hired, but I dunno, maybe there's a reason they all leave the field so quickly and it's not because women are difficult? ( I think you're an engineer if I remember correctly, I can imagine that's also a very male dominated field)
I'm really good at what I'm specializing in, but I'm not good in all aspects of my general job. Let's say I'm much better at designing high quality baskets than at fixing the looms for underwater basket weaving when they break. I'm trying really hard to becoming better at loom fixing, I watch youtube video's about it in my spare time, but trying to improve means I'm asking lots of questions to coworkers and I work slowly which they perceive as me being incompetent. And of course, I am not good at loom fixing, but hey, I'm not a loom mechanic, I never claimed to be, please let me design the fancy baskets that we can sell for $$$ because that's what I'm really good at. When I do get to design it's always a big success.
As a fellow outsider, let me tell you the hard truth: you will never change the company culture. Your boss will never change the company culture. The culture is a result of the attitudes of all the people that work there and all of the years of previous rules/regulations/acceptable practices. That's not going to change anytime soon. Don't waste your breath talking to your boss. Just leave. All you can do is walk away.
QuoteAll in all, I will need to have a 1 on 1 talk with my boss when the future of the company is announced. And I need to discuss why I don't feel comfortable at work anymore, in a way that the boss will understand. I'm not sure it's even possible for me to change the company culture even if my boss would agree with me. I think there's a fair chance we'll either decide to part ways or my contract will not be renewed in October. I've not got a lot of liquid cash right now, but I could sell off investments if I had to. I have a side hustle that would probably bring in just enough income for my half of the bills and I could always find a side job waiting tables or something. I'm just soooo tired of office culture and never fitting in. It's almost worse than high school.I'm sorry you are going through this. It is so tough. I don't have it that bad (high school was worse, for sure!) but office politics and difficult people make work...wearying.
I had my own tribe of nerds and goths in highschool, I don't have that here. It's not that I'm an extremely weird antisocial person, but I am a woman, I'm a bit of a geek, I'm not into fashion, I'm not particularly nurturing, I'm into music and crafts and history books and stuff like that. I'm not into owning fancy stuff. Just your average mustachian I suppose :) It seems that so far I always end up in organisations dominated by older males who hire younger males who are just like them. There are plenty of other women in grad school with me but it's said they don't last long in this field, which is why they aren't hired, but I dunno, maybe there's a reason they all leave the field so quickly and it's not because women are difficult? ( I think you're an engineer if I remember correctly, I can imagine that's also a very male dominated field)
I'm really good at what I'm specializing in, but I'm not good in all aspects of my general job. Let's say I'm much better at designing high quality baskets than at fixing the looms for underwater basket weaving when they break. I'm trying really hard to becoming better at loom fixing, I watch youtube video's about it in my spare time, but trying to improve means I'm asking lots of questions to coworkers and I work slowly which they perceive as me being incompetent. And of course, I am not good at loom fixing, but hey, I'm not a loom mechanic, I never claimed to be, please let me design the fancy baskets that we can sell for $$$ because that's what I'm really good at. When I do get to design it's always a big success.
As a fellow outsider, let me tell you the hard truth: you will never change the company culture. Your boss will never change the company culture. The culture is a result of the attitudes of all the people that work there and all of the years of previous rules/regulations/acceptable practices. That's not going to change anytime soon. Don't waste your breath talking to your boss. Just leave. All you can do is walk away.
You can be like the lady who left Uber and blogged about what it was like there, with supporting documentation.
Here's the physical world equivalent, a Molotov cocktail. It may or may not end up changing the entire culture but some folks can end up burned beyond all recognition:
QuoteAll in all, I will need to have a 1 on 1 talk with my boss when the future of the company is announced. And I need to discuss why I don't feel comfortable at work anymore, in a way that the boss will understand. I'm not sure it's even possible for me to change the company culture even if my boss would agree with me. I think there's a fair chance we'll either decide to part ways or my contract will not be renewed in October. I've not got a lot of liquid cash right now, but I could sell off investments if I had to. I have a side hustle that would probably bring in just enough income for my half of the bills and I could always find a side job waiting tables or something. I'm just soooo tired of office culture and never fitting in. It's almost worse than high school.I'm sorry you are going through this. It is so tough. I don't have it that bad (high school was worse, for sure!) but office politics and difficult people make work...wearying.
I had my own tribe of nerds and goths in highschool, I don't have that here. It's not that I'm an extremely weird antisocial person, but I am a woman, I'm a bit of a geek, I'm not into fashion, I'm not particularly nurturing, I'm into music and crafts and history books and stuff like that. I'm not into owning fancy stuff. Just your average mustachian I suppose :) It seems that so far I always end up in organisations dominated by older males who hire younger males who are just like them. There are plenty of other women in grad school with me but it's said they don't last long in this field, which is why they aren't hired, but I dunno, maybe there's a reason they all leave the field so quickly and it's not because women are difficult? ( I think you're an engineer if I remember correctly, I can imagine that's also a very male dominated field)
I'm really good at what I'm specializing in, but I'm not good in all aspects of my general job. Let's say I'm much better at designing high quality baskets than at fixing the looms for underwater basket weaving when they break. I'm trying really hard to becoming better at loom fixing, I watch youtube video's about it in my spare time, but trying to improve means I'm asking lots of questions to coworkers and I work slowly which they perceive as me being incompetent. And of course, I am not good at loom fixing, but hey, I'm not a loom mechanic, I never claimed to be, please let me design the fancy baskets that we can sell for $$$ because that's what I'm really good at. When I do get to design it's always a big success.
As a fellow outsider, let me tell you the hard truth: you will never change the company culture. Your boss will never change the company culture. The culture is a result of the attitudes of all the people that work there and all of the years of previous rules/regulations/acceptable practices. That's not going to change anytime soon. Don't waste your breath talking to your boss. Just leave. All you can do is walk away.
You can be like the lady who left Uber and blogged about what it was like there, with supporting documentation.
Here's the physical world equivalent, a Molotov cocktail. It may or may not end up changing the entire culture but some folks can end up burned beyond all recognition:
Still a giant waste of time, but now you've created enemies AND got yourself a rep as a whistleblower.
Still a giant waste of time, but now you've created enemies AND got yourself a rep as a whistleblower.
QuoteAll in all, I will need to have a 1 on 1 talk with my boss when the future of the company is announced. And I need to discuss why I don't feel comfortable at work anymore, in a way that the boss will understand. I'm not sure it's even possible for me to change the company culture even if my boss would agree with me. I think there's a fair chance we'll either decide to part ways or my contract will not be renewed in October. I've not got a lot of liquid cash right now, but I could sell off investments if I had to. I have a side hustle that would probably bring in just enough income for my half of the bills and I could always find a side job waiting tables or something. I'm just soooo tired of office culture and never fitting in. It's almost worse than high school.I'm sorry you are going through this. It is so tough. I don't have it that bad (high school was worse, for sure!) but office politics and difficult people make work...wearying.
I had my own tribe of nerds and goths in highschool, I don't have that here. It's not that I'm an extremely weird antisocial person, but I am a woman, I'm a bit of a geek, I'm not into fashion, I'm not particularly nurturing, I'm into music and crafts and history books and stuff like that. I'm not into owning fancy stuff. Just your average mustachian I suppose :) It seems that so far I always end up in organisations dominated by older males who hire younger males who are just like them. There are plenty of other women in grad school with me but it's said they don't last long in this field, which is why they aren't hired, but I dunno, maybe there's a reason they all leave the field so quickly and it's not because women are difficult? ( I think you're an engineer if I remember correctly, I can imagine that's also a very male dominated field)
I'm really good at what I'm specializing in, but I'm not good in all aspects of my general job. Let's say I'm much better at designing high quality baskets than at fixing the looms for underwater basket weaving when they break. I'm trying really hard to becoming better at loom fixing, I watch youtube video's about it in my spare time, but trying to improve means I'm asking lots of questions to coworkers and I work slowly which they perceive as me being incompetent. And of course, I am not good at loom fixing, but hey, I'm not a loom mechanic, I never claimed to be, please let me design the fancy baskets that we can sell for $$$ because that's what I'm really good at. When I do get to design it's always a big success.
As a fellow outsider, let me tell you the hard truth: you will never change the company culture. Your boss will never change the company culture. The culture is a result of the attitudes of all the people that work there and all of the years of previous rules/regulations/acceptable practices. That's not going to change anytime soon. Don't waste your breath talking to your boss. Just leave. All you can do is walk away.
You can be like the lady who left Uber and blogged about what it was like there, with supporting documentation.
Here's the physical world equivalent, a Molotov cocktail. It may or may not end up changing the entire culture but some folks can end up burned beyond all recognition:
Still a giant waste of time, but now you've created enemies AND got yourself a rep as a whistleblower.
This comment about changing company culture reminded me of the first company I worked for after college. It was pretty darn unethical -- lots of pressure on the sales team to "make quota" and lots of pressure on the executives to make their numbers for dividends for investors. This led to lying and cheating and lots of partying in between. So much of the old boy network including golf trips and strip clubs and harassment of women. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I would never believe when people tell me stories like this at their companies. It actually was gross, but at the time, I just thought it was normal, and even fun.QuoteAll in all, I will need to have a 1 on 1 talk with my boss when the future of the company is announced. And I need to discuss why I don't feel comfortable at work anymore, in a way that the boss will understand. I'm not sure it's even possible for me to change the company culture even if my boss would agree with me. I think there's a fair chance we'll either decide to part ways or my contract will not be renewed in October. I've not got a lot of liquid cash right now, but I could sell off investments if I had to. I have a side hustle that would probably bring in just enough income for my half of the bills and I could always find a side job waiting tables or something. I'm just soooo tired of office culture and never fitting in. It's almost worse than high school.I'm sorry you are going through this. It is so tough. I don't have it that bad (high school was worse, for sure!) but office politics and difficult people make work...wearying.
I had my own tribe of nerds and goths in highschool, I don't have that here. It's not that I'm an extremely weird antisocial person, but I am a woman, I'm a bit of a geek, I'm not into fashion, I'm not particularly nurturing, I'm into music and crafts and history books and stuff like that. I'm not into owning fancy stuff. Just your average mustachian I suppose :) It seems that so far I always end up in organisations dominated by older males who hire younger males who are just like them. There are plenty of other women in grad school with me but it's said they don't last long in this field, which is why they aren't hired, but I dunno, maybe there's a reason they all leave the field so quickly and it's not because women are difficult? ( I think you're an engineer if I remember correctly, I can imagine that's also a very male dominated field)
I'm really good at what I'm specializing in, but I'm not good in all aspects of my general job. Let's say I'm much better at designing high quality baskets than at fixing the looms for underwater basket weaving when they break. I'm trying really hard to becoming better at loom fixing, I watch youtube video's about it in my spare time, but trying to improve means I'm asking lots of questions to coworkers and I work slowly which they perceive as me being incompetent. And of course, I am not good at loom fixing, but hey, I'm not a loom mechanic, I never claimed to be, please let me design the fancy baskets that we can sell for $$$ because that's what I'm really good at. When I do get to design it's always a big success.
As a fellow outsider, let me tell you the hard truth: you will never change the company culture. Your boss will never change the company culture. The culture is a result of the attitudes of all the people that work there and all of the years of previous rules/regulations/acceptable practices. That's not going to change anytime soon. Don't waste your breath talking to your boss. Just leave. All you can do is walk away.
I don't think my coworkers would classify themselves as sexist, I mean, they're not saying stuff like "mothers should not work" like a real sexist. They just say they believe that children need their mother around 24/7 before they are of school age because otherwise they will not thrive, and this is the natural order of things. Which is just a longwinded BS way to say the same thing. (I'm totally fine with people choosing to be SAHP's, but please just say 'we have chosen for my partner to stay at home' instead of telling me what's natural and what's not).
I actually already work for a foreign multinational! My company is from a European country that's conservative in other ways. In that country, women either work fulltime or stay at home. I'm not sure if that's much better. But women in leadership roles are still fairly rare, not just in my country but nationwide. I have to say that in my country we are progressive about many other things, for example being gay isn't an issue and no one cares if you are religious. I know in many other countries this can still cause issues in the workplace.Still a giant waste of time, but now you've created enemies AND got yourself a rep as a whistleblower.
I agree. Maybe if you're FIRE and really never need to work again or deal with people in your former field then this would be OK but otherwise, how exhausting.
You mention that women in your country almost always work part time. So I assume that that means that women, specifically, are expected culturally to step back from work roles and do most housework and childcare - although I'm sure that there are some women and men who reject these cultural norms. So it sounds like a country with old fashioned traditional views of gender roles. Unfortunately, in this situation, changing the entire culture single handedly would be taking on a lot. It might also be hard to change things from within such a culture.
Could you find work with a foreign multinational from a country with less rigid gender norms and more powerful working women? Even here in Italy, things aren't as rigid as you describe gender-wise. I have kids and work full time and I have a lot of female colleagues who are similar to me. With women in powerful positions at my workplace , it's hard to stick to rigid gender stereotypes. I'm sure some people think these things but they would never say them. My husband picks the kids up every day at school and there are always tons of dads there.
I don't think my coworkers would classify themselves as sexist, I mean, they're not saying stuff like "mothers should not work" like a real sexist. They just say they believe that children need their mother around 24/7 before they are of school age because otherwise they will not thrive, and this is the natural order of things. Which is just a longwinded BS way to say the same thing. (I'm totally fine with people choosing to be SAHP's, but please just say 'we have chosen for my partner to stay at home' instead of telling me what's natural and what's not).
Your italicized part and my bolded part of your paragraph are at odds with each other. They're saying the same thing, it is sexist, that makes them sexist, at least for this part of the job/life.
Incidentally, I once had that opinion and I once wanted my wife to stay home before our kids were school aged. I still would LIKE it, but as I've grown up I've learned it isn't always the best option. Funnily enough, our opinions have reversed on it. My wife once never would have considered it, but now we're doing everything we can so she can stay home with the kid(s). We wouldn't be able to take that step without FU money - we don't have much of it, but enough that my wife can stay home to take care of kiddo, at least for a couple of years.
This is mostly true. However, I have seen quite a few shifts in my (smaller, startup) company culture. As those of us who are here have aged, the culture has HAD to let up a bit - to allow people to be parents, recover from illness, or age gracefully. The "culture" of a company of mostly 20-something men changes as those men become 40-something with wives and kids.QuoteAll in all, I will need to have a 1 on 1 talk with my boss when the future of the company is announced. And I need to discuss why I don't feel comfortable at work anymore, in a way that the boss will understand. I'm not sure it's even possible for me to change the company culture even if my boss would agree with me. I think there's a fair chance we'll either decide to part ways or my contract will not be renewed in October. I've not got a lot of liquid cash right now, but I could sell off investments if I had to. I have a side hustle that would probably bring in just enough income for my half of the bills and I could always find a side job waiting tables or something. I'm just soooo tired of office culture and never fitting in. It's almost worse than high school.I'm sorry you are going through this. It is so tough. I don't have it that bad (high school was worse, for sure!) but office politics and difficult people make work...wearying.
I had my own tribe of nerds and goths in highschool, I don't have that here. It's not that I'm an extremely weird antisocial person, but I am a woman, I'm a bit of a geek, I'm not into fashion, I'm not particularly nurturing, I'm into music and crafts and history books and stuff like that. I'm not into owning fancy stuff. Just your average mustachian I suppose :) It seems that so far I always end up in organisations dominated by older males who hire younger males who are just like them. There are plenty of other women in grad school with me but it's said they don't last long in this field, which is why they aren't hired, but I dunno, maybe there's a reason they all leave the field so quickly and it's not because women are difficult? ( I think you're an engineer if I remember correctly, I can imagine that's also a very male dominated field)
I'm really good at what I'm specializing in, but I'm not good in all aspects of my general job. Let's say I'm much better at designing high quality baskets than at fixing the looms for underwater basket weaving when they break. I'm trying really hard to becoming better at loom fixing, I watch youtube video's about it in my spare time, but trying to improve means I'm asking lots of questions to coworkers and I work slowly which they perceive as me being incompetent. And of course, I am not good at loom fixing, but hey, I'm not a loom mechanic, I never claimed to be, please let me design the fancy baskets that we can sell for $$$ because that's what I'm really good at. When I do get to design it's always a big success.
As a fellow outsider, let me tell you the hard truth: you will never change the company culture. Your boss will never change the company culture. The culture is a result of the attitudes of all the people that work there and all of the years of previous rules/regulations/acceptable practices. That's not going to change anytime soon. Don't waste your breath talking to your boss. Just leave. All you can do is walk away.
I don't think my coworkers would classify themselves as sexist, I mean, they're not saying stuff like "mothers should not work" like a real sexist. They just say they believe that children need their mother around 24/7 before they are of school age because otherwise they will not thrive, and this is the natural order of things. Which is just a longwinded BS way to say the same thing. (I'm totally fine with people choosing to be SAHP's, but please just say 'we have chosen for my partner to stay at home' instead of telling me what's natural and what's not).
Your italicized part and my bolded part of your paragraph are at odds with each other. They're saying the same thing, it is sexist, that makes them sexist, at least for this part of the job/life.
Incidentally, I once had that opinion and I once wanted my wife to stay home before our kids were school aged. I still would LIKE it, but as I've grown up I've learned it isn't always the best option. Funnily enough, our opinions have reversed on it. My wife once never would have considered it, but now we're doing everything we can so she can stay home with the kid(s). We wouldn't be able to take that step without FU money - we don't have much of it, but enough that my wife can stay home to take care of kiddo, at least for a couple of years.
My friend has a fulltime management position that she's really happy with and her husband has a fulltime physically demanding job that he's less passionate about. They have several young kids and of course it's a challenge to balance all of that. I don't think anyone has ever suggested he should go parttime or quit, but they keep asking her about it. I know he actually tried to go parttime but his boss refused.Men are biologically programmed to be XY and women are biologically programmed to be XX. (Gene humor, YMMV)
I think everyone should make their own choices about raising their families, and I don't think one choice is inherently better than others. I have friends who thrive as stay at home parents, others feel better working, and some people don't have a choice and most find a way to make it work. I don't think women are programmed to always be good mothers and that men are not wired to be primary caregivers.
I don't care that much about coworkers' views, especially since I don't even have children, but from the statements they have made, it looks they hold the view that men are biologically programmed to be X and women to be Y. And I think it's likely that's colouring their view of me.
To your point @Threshkin - https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2018/03/09/money-and-confidence-are-interchangeable/ (https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2018/03/09/money-and-confidence-are-interchangeable/)
Likewise, while I'm not a huge fan of my husband's company culture (lot of old white men),
QuoteLikewise, while I'm not a huge fan of my husband's company culture (lot of old white men),
I'm inspired by the freedom being attained. But I see no need for this race/gender/age stereotyping. Could someone point out to me what negative culture I am carrying around as an old white man?
So I guess it was okay to use the race/gender/stereotyping ("old white men") because some were insufficiently aware of "privilege".
Now that we have all been educated about "privilege", is it still okay to use race/gender/stereotyping?
While a great conversation around sexism, it's not the purpose of this thread. I recommend we pivot the sexism talk to a new thread and leave this one to the FU stories.
I love this thread, have followed it for years now. Would hate to see it spiral away from what it's been for so long.
You personally? Maybe nothing.QuoteLikewise, while I'm not a huge fan of my husband's company culture (lot of old white men),
I'm inspired by the freedom being attained. But I see no need for this race/gender/age stereotyping. Could someone point out to me what negative culture I am carrying around as an old white man?
While a great conversation around sexism, it's not the purpose of this thread. I recommend we pivot the sexism talk to a new thread and leave this one to the FU stories.
I love this thread, have followed it for years now. Would hate to see it spiral away from what it's been for so long.
+1
I think if we add one word, everyone is happy and nothing is taken from the story: (lot of bigoted old white men)QuoteLikewise, while I'm not a huge fan of my husband's company culture (lot of old white men),
I'm inspired by the freedom being attained. But I see no need for this race/gender/age stereotyping. Could someone point out to me what negative culture I am carrying around as an old white man?
I think if we add one word, everyone is happy and nothing is taken from the story: (lot of bigoted old white men)QuoteLikewise, while I'm not a huge fan of my husband's company culture (lot of old white men),
I'm inspired by the freedom being attained. But I see no need for this race/gender/age stereotyping. Could someone point out to me what negative culture I am carrying around as an old white man?
bigot: a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions
So I guess it was okay to use the race/gender/stereotyping ("old white men") because some were insufficiently aware of "privilege".
Now that we have all been educated about "privilege", is it still okay to use race/gender/stereotyping?
I think you've missed the point. That's ok. Not everyone has to be on the same page.
So I guess it was okay to use the race/gender/stereotyping ("old white men") because some were insufficiently aware of "privilege".
Now that we have all been educated about "privilege", is it still okay to use race/gender/stereotyping?
I think you've missed the point. That's ok. Not everyone has to be on the same page.
And I think you've missed the point. That's ok, it makes us even.
https://www.askamanager.org/2017/09/spectacular-resignation-stories-share-in-the-comments.html
https://www.askamanager.org/2017/09/spectacular-resignation-stories-share-in-the-comments.html
HA!
When I left my company to FIRE, I gave my (remote) boss 6 weeks notice so he could start the rather long hiring process. I didn't want to leave my team in a lurch. He didn't tell anyone for weeks, including HR. I finally asked him if I should tell HR (and the team), and he was like oh yeah, let me get on that. So with less than two weeks left, things got rolling. I finally broke down and told the team unofficially since things were getting awkward with scheduling. Not my problem. Easier if I don't have to train the new person :).
I think my former boss is just waiting until retirement. He seems so done.
https://www.askamanager.org/2017/09/spectacular-resignation-stories-share-in-the-comments.html
HA!
When I left my company to FIRE, I gave my (remote) boss 6 weeks notice so he could start the rather long hiring process. I didn't want to leave my team in a lurch. He didn't tell anyone for weeks, including HR. I finally asked him if I should tell HR (and the team), and he was like oh yeah, let me get on that. So with less than two weeks left, things got rolling. I finally broke down and told the team unofficially since things were getting awkward with scheduling. Not my problem. Easier if I don't have to train the new person :).
I think my former boss is just waiting until retirement. He seems so done.
Yeah, I gave 7 months notice, plus found a qualified candidate, and they still goofed off and screwed up getting a replacement.
AND were surprised to discover the date I was leaving even after making me re-submit my resignation message 4 times so it would meet their standards.
https://www.askamanager.org/2017/09/spectacular-resignation-stories-share-in-the-comments.html
HA!
When I left my company to FIRE, I gave my (remote) boss 6 weeks notice so he could start the rather long hiring process. I didn't want to leave my team in a lurch. He didn't tell anyone for weeks, including HR. I finally asked him if I should tell HR (and the team), and he was like oh yeah, let me get on that. So with less than two weeks left, things got rolling. I finally broke down and told the team unofficially since things were getting awkward with scheduling. Not my problem. Easier if I don't have to train the new person :).
I think my former boss is just waiting until retirement. He seems so done.
Yeah, I gave 7 months notice, plus found a qualified candidate, and they still goofed off and screwed up getting a replacement.
AND were surprised to discover the date I was leaving even after making me re-submit my resignation message 4 times so it would meet their standards.
https://www.askamanager.org/2017/09/spectacular-resignation-stories-share-in-the-comments.html
HA!
When I left my company to FIRE, I gave my (remote) boss 6 weeks notice so he could start the rather long hiring process. I didn't want to leave my team in a lurch. He didn't tell anyone for weeks, including HR. I finally asked him if I should tell HR (and the team), and he was like oh yeah, let me get on that. So with less than two weeks left, things got rolling. I finally broke down and told the team unofficially since things were getting awkward with scheduling. Not my problem. Easier if I don't have to train the new person :).
I think my former boss is just waiting until retirement. He seems so done.
Yeah, I gave 7 months notice, plus found a qualified candidate, and they still goofed off and screwed up getting a replacement.
AND were surprised to discover the date I was leaving even after making me re-submit my resignation message 4 times so it would meet their standards.
Wow, crazy. I wonder, if you had never submitted a proper resignation would the punishment for that have been termination or making you stay?
AND were surprised to discover the date I was leaving even after making me re-submit my resignation message 4 times so it would meet their standards.
More of a MM $ principles story than an FU story.
I am/was a physician in private practice for over twenty years but getting very tired of dealing with health insurance companies. Decided to take some time off. I went back to school to enter another profession for the short term. Living well below our means and saving $- classic MM style: This enabled me to do these changes.
DW became very stressed at her work and began having health problems. She was able to quit and is now feeling much better.
I will retire in late May.
We have an AA that allows me to sleep at night. Just following the great advice learned here. It works and we have benefited.
Thank you MM community.
More of a MM $ principles story than an FU story.
I am/was a physician in private practice for over twenty years but getting very tired of dealing with health insurance companies. Decided to take some time off. I went back to school to enter another profession for the short term. Living well below our means and saving $- classic MM style: This enabled me to do these changes.
DW became very stressed at her work and began having health problems. She was able to quit and is now feeling much better.
I will retire in late May.
We have an AA that allows me to sleep at night. Just following the great advice learned here. It works and we have benefited.
Thank you MM community.
lol at Chris Matthews quitting on the air to kick off his last Hardball tonight:
"After Matthews’ on-air announcement, Hardball went on commercial break.
When it came back, it was Steve Kornacki Iooking surprised. After some laudatory remarks about Matthews, Kornacki said they’ll have to fill this hour then it went on immediate commercial break." -Ahmed Baba
Guess he has his FU money!
Sounds like mostly verbal stuff; a series of public gaffes, combined with accusations of inappropriate "flirting" behind the scenes.lol at Chris Matthews quitting on the air to kick off his last Hardball tonight:
"After Matthews’ on-air announcement, Hardball went on commercial break.
When it came back, it was Steve Kornacki Iooking surprised. After some laudatory remarks about Matthews, Kornacki said they’ll have to fill this hour then it went on immediate commercial break." -Ahmed Baba
Guess he has his FU money!
The story I read about this left me a little confused. Granted, it was on Yahoo! which is not known for high quality.
Was he like Bill O'Reilly, or like the guy from public radio who patted someone on the back?
...
Was he like Bill O'Reilly, or like the guy from public radio who patted someone on the back?
...
Was he like Bill O'Reilly, or like the guy from public radio who patted someone on the back?
The speed and thoroughness of Garrison Keillor's removal makes me suspect he had a reputation behind the scenes and that he probably should have been dealt with years ago. Or maybe he wanted to retire and this was a convent way for everyone to get out of a contract.
...
Was he like Bill O'Reilly, or like the guy from public radio who patted someone on the back?
The speed and thoroughness of Garrison Keillor's removal makes me suspect he had a reputation behind the scenes and that he probably should have been dealt with years ago. Or maybe he wanted to retire and this was a convent way for everyone to get out of a contract.
I think your comments sounds a bit dismissive with a lack of understanding of how years and years of inappropriate ANYTHING can just drain the lifeforce out of a human being. Women are subjected to it constantly from birth and are taught a series of behaviors to minimize, excuse, downplay, and ignore -- just to stay safe.Sounds like mostly verbal stuff; a series of public gaffes, combined with accusations of inappropriate "flirting" behind the scenes.lol at Chris Matthews quitting on the air to kick off his last Hardball tonight:
"After Matthews’ on-air announcement, Hardball went on commercial break.
When it came back, it was Steve Kornacki Iooking surprised. After some laudatory remarks about Matthews, Kornacki said they’ll have to fill this hour then it went on immediate commercial break." -Ahmed Baba
Guess he has his FU money!
The story I read about this left me a little confused. Granted, it was on Yahoo! which is not known for high quality.
Was he like Bill O'Reilly, or like the guy from public radio who patted someone on the back?
Point taken. Also the information I had read up to that point may have underplayed the extent of it. Having read additional information since then, it seems that it was more of a pervasive pattern of behavior on his part.I think your comments sounds a bit dismissive with a lack of understanding of how years and years of inappropriate ANYTHING can just drain the lifeforce out of a human being. Women are subjected to it constantly from birth and are taught a series of behaviors to minimize, excuse, downplay, and ignore -- just to stay safe.Sounds like mostly verbal stuff; a series of public gaffes, combined with accusations of inappropriate "flirting" behind the scenes.lol at Chris Matthews quitting on the air to kick off his last Hardball tonight:
"After Matthews’ on-air announcement, Hardball went on commercial break.
When it came back, it was Steve Kornacki Iooking surprised. After some laudatory remarks about Matthews, Kornacki said they’ll have to fill this hour then it went on immediate commercial break." -Ahmed Baba
Guess he has his FU money!
The story I read about this left me a little confused. Granted, it was on Yahoo! which is not known for high quality.
Was he like Bill O'Reilly, or like the guy from public radio who patted someone on the back?
I won't judge what happened in this situation because I don't know. But I also won't say "oh, it was JUST verbal".
Look, I get it. Some women gave back as good as they got. But why WHY does anyone think any of that belongs in the workplace? I HAVE NEVER SEEN FLIRTING IN ANY JOB DESCRIPTION. have you?
Looking back at the day I quit, it all feels rather epic now. I had already planned to quit days before ever walking in the room. Disgusted with lots of shenanigans, toxic culture, a fuckwit (term coined by ExFlyBoy) for a boss who didn’t give two shits about his employees, a rapid turnover in all areas of the company, I’d had enough. In the same conversation in which said “fuckwit” explained he wanted to send me to some sort of management training, I basically said without much fanfare that I was leaving. The hypocrisy of someone who doesn’t do annual performance reviews, routinely has little tantrums, and is an absentee boss really took the cake. He totally lost his shit. “I’m going to need that in writing!” he bellowed.
I was taken aback in the moment, but him losing his shit was such a tell. And I felt like a boss when I returned a minute later with my already prepared letter. It was obvious that for me it wasn’t a knee jerk thing.
In some jurisdictions the employee still has the job so it can't be filled until some time has passed (when the employee doesn't show up and is legally considered to have abandoned the job). A formal resignation letter acts as proof the employee doesn't want the job anymore. Plus, they can't claim they were fired without cause or laid off and claim unemployment. Well, actually, they can claim it, but the employer will be off the hook due to the letter.Looking back at the day I quit, it all feels rather epic now. I had already planned to quit days before ever walking in the room. Disgusted with lots of shenanigans, toxic culture, a fuckwit (term coined by ExFlyBoy) for a boss who didn’t give two shits about his employees, a rapid turnover in all areas of the company, I’d had enough. In the same conversation in which said “fuckwit” explained he wanted to send me to some sort of management training, I basically said without much fanfare that I was leaving. The hypocrisy of someone who doesn’t do annual performance reviews, routinely has little tantrums, and is an absentee boss really took the cake. He totally lost his shit. “I’m going to need that in writing!” he bellowed.
I was taken aback in the moment, but him losing his shit was such a tell. And I felt like a boss when I returned a minute later with my already prepared letter. It was obvious that for me it wasn’t a knee jerk thing.
That's great.
I've always wondered: why do employers require a formal resignation letter? What are the consequences if you don't provide one? And if they do ask for one, what's to stop someone from spending the next couple days working on it instead of doing it on their own time?
That's great.
I've always wondered: why do employers require a formal resignation letter? What are the consequences if you don't provide one? And if they do ask for one, what's to stop someone from spending the next couple days working on it instead of doing it on their own time?
Had a guy pack up his stuff and write "GONE!!!" on a post-it he put on his office door. No one was sure whether he had to leave for the day or he had quit.
That's great.
I've always wondered: why do employers require a formal resignation letter? What are the consequences if you don't provide one? And if they do ask for one, what's to stop someone from spending the next couple days working on it instead of doing it on their own time?
I assume most employers need it as legal proof you have resigned your position.
Thinking back I remember an employee once just not show up for work. During the first week everyone was worried he was really sick or something. Nobody could reach him, finally his boss was able to reach him and he basically said he did feel like working anymore, but refused to put anything in writing. It took HR another couple of weeks to figure out what to do and ended up having to file some type of "job abandonment termination" paperwork. I always thought it was sad and wondered why anyone would do that, but maybe it was his "Epic FU"!
Then comes the big recession. Jobs are scarce. Both lose their jobs and go to work on a defense contract in a 2 man shack in Iraq for 6 months. The exact same 2 man shack.
Karma is a bitch.
Not so much an FU, because I actually really like my boss and my company - but this is more an unexpected opportunity just arose that I could not even try without my FU money.
I work for a very small company that provides things for large, mostly outdoor, events (think stages and the like). We are in a temperate climate, so it has been our slow season for months. We just had 80% of our business for March and early April cancelled due to Covid-19. Slow season + cancellations with nothing to replace it and no idea when we are going to recover = huge financial crunch.
I am seriously considering walking into my boss's office tomorrow and offering to be laid off for 3-4 weeks in exchange for non-monetary compensation going forward. Something like 1 week off every month of the slow season (4 extra weeks of vacation). I can certainly make up any work I would miss and our company is so small and labor is the biggest cost - losing my pay as a bill for the next 4 weeks will really help.
I'll get paid half my pay for 4 weeks but in exchange get 8 weeks off - the 4 weeks I'm laid off and the 4 extra weeks vacation in the the slow season of 2020-2021. Seems like a good deal. I can easily do the rest of my work in the slow season in 3 weeks/month and without our work for March, there won't be much work for me to do in the next 4 weeks anyway.
This kind of begs the question why doesn't he just lay me off without the deal. Honestly, he would be afraid I would find another job so he is not going to do lay-off unless he absolutely has no other choice.
Not so much an FU, because I actually really like my boss and my company - but this is more an unexpected opportunity just arose that I could not even try without my FU money.
I work for a very small company that provides things for large, mostly outdoor, events (think stages and the like). We are in a temperate climate, so it has been our slow season for months. We just had 80% of our business for March and early April cancelled due to Covid-19. Slow season + cancellations with nothing to replace it and no idea when we are going to recover = huge financial crunch.
I am seriously considering walking into my boss's office tomorrow and offering to be laid off for 3-4 weeks in exchange for non-monetary compensation going forward. Something like 1 week off every month of the slow season (4 extra weeks of vacation). I can certainly make up any work I would miss and our company is so small and labor is the biggest cost - losing my pay as a bill for the next 4 weeks will really help.
I'll get paid half my pay for 4 weeks but in exchange get 8 weeks off - the 4 weeks I'm laid off and the 4 extra weeks vacation in the the slow season of 2020-2021. Seems like a good deal. I can easily do the rest of my work in the slow season in 3 weeks/month and without our work for March, there won't be much work for me to do in the next 4 weeks anyway.
This kind of begs the question why doesn't he just lay me off without the deal. Honestly, he would be afraid I would find another job so he is not going to do lay-off unless he absolutely has no other choice.
Dont care more about your bosses company than it cares about you. You want the free time now - cool; just remember if you dropped dead you would be replaced (at some point).
Sounds like a plan @CindyBS - but I would just be careful about couching it in terms of a layoff. Say something like alternative or flexible working hours arrangement. I think that's what you're talking about but wanted to mention it just in case. Just make sure to pay attention to potential implications for any benefits you might get through your job (pension, social security, health insurance and so on). Good luck with it.
I am seriously considering walking into my boss's office tomorrow and offering to be laid off for 3-4 weeks in exchange for non-monetary compensation going forward. Something like 1 week off every month of the slow season (4 extra weeks of vacation). I can certainly make up any work I would miss and our company is so small and labor is the biggest cost - losing my pay as a bill for the next 4 weeks will really help.
A friend of mine voluntarily did this during the last recession. She just had her boss move her to the bottom of the schedule until the work resumed. She was available on call if needed, but otherwise didn't turn up for work. When the economy recovered, she jumped right back in at the top of the list. She still works there. Her boss adores her and never forgets that she helped keep the boat afloat.
Just to clarify - You're not planning on filing for unemployment benefits, correct?
I work in a restaurant and I'm on the lower end of the pay scale so I'm probably the person you picture as having no plan in place, paycheck to paycheck, and having a mini crisis through all this. Thanks to MMM and this forum, my emergency fund is big enough to weather this storm for a good year and probably then some. They can shove it if they think I'm going to work right now.
I work in a restaurant and I'm on the lower end of the pay scale so I'm probably the person you picture as having no plan in place, paycheck to paycheck, and having a mini crisis through all this. Thanks to MMM and this forum, my emergency fund is big enough to weather this storm for a good year and probably then some. They can shove it if they think I'm going to work right now.
My friend is a nurse and is in her 50-60s. At her age she is at high risk if she gets infected with COVID-19. She works at a hospital and was not allowed to use enough protective equipment due to potential shortages in future. She quit right away!
They did a great job financially and are going to be just fine.
My friend is a nurse and is in her 50-60s. At her age she is at high risk if she gets infected with COVID-19. She works at a hospital and was not allowed to use enough protective equipment due to potential shortages in future. She quit right away!
They did a great job financially and are going to be just fine.
My FIL is a nurse by trade, but also a real estate whiz on the side (at one point had ~25 rentals, but has pared it back to 5-6 now that he's in his mid 70's). Yesterday we received a statewide emergency text asking for all medical professionals to sign up to volunteer. My wife immediately called him to tell him off if he was considering it, but he said, "nope, they couldn't pay me enough right now to do that". This from the man who would work an off shift for the bonuses, because... "$50/hour!". Glad he's got enough sense to stay far away from this tragedy. He's long since not needed the money and he's definitely in a high risk age group.Let me guess--he's in Illinois? I got that "emergency alert" yesterday, and it annoyed the heck out of me. As far as I can tell, they sent it to every single cell phone in the state. That sort of thing is for imminent, impending doom-type scenarios. Tornado warnings, flash flood warnings perhaps. But not "hey, we need your help!" Yeesh.
@Dicey--also public perception. If all the hospital workers are masked, the patients start to think that they also need to be masked (YES, they do). And that the hospital is a germy place (YES, it is). Patient demand for masks will stress the hospital's supply.In January, I had to get a TB test for a hospital-related volunteer gig. The intake for the blood draw was through Urgent Care. There were a lot of sick people there. When I got sick in mid-March with what may or may not have been CV, I was determined not to seek medical care unless or until I experienced shortness of breath. Fortunately, that didn't happen. I haven't set foot in a public space in 17 days, but if I absolutely have to, you bet I'll be wearing a mask, even if I have to make it myself.
This is a tangent: Hospitals are not accepting homemade PPE. But on the local listserves, medical personnel are pleading for anything they can get and people are making masks for them like crazy. I think the hospitals are worried about liability should a homemade mask prove ineffective. WTF?
I've got a "stick it to the man" one pending - hoping they come around on "you need to take a pay cut so the company will be more profitable", but I doubt it. Seriously - they didn't even try to frame it in terms of the emergency. I guess I appreciate the honesty.
Regardless, we've actually increased our charitable giving by 4-5 times since the outbreak started. We're up to $500 per week, plus the prior $600 per month now. All to local charities, via our church, which has a long-established tradition of "sharing the plate' with various charities. In light of the pandemic, rather than splitting these donations, we're just aggregating and forwarding on to the selected charity each week, so this has made it very easy for us to donate much more. We're going to continue doing this as long as we can.
Hinted at a brewing one earlier. Today, a payment was past due. Not unusual - in the past I email "hey this is past due now", they respond "oops - will be in your account tomorrow." And then the payment is in my account the next day. Today though the answer is "all 1099 payments have to be approved by executive team, so I'll try to get you an estimate on when".
So I'm not working any more until at the very least there is an estimate for when I will be paid. Having 2 months of unpaid work at what appears to be significant risk of non-payment is more than enough for me.
@Alternatepriorities - will be interesting to see how long this lasts. The longer it is, the more my rate goes up for them. And the probability of demanding a retainer.
Madalope, nice first post.
Awesome Madalope. I just wish you had a camera to record the look on your bosses face when you did that.
"I am sorry, but I am resigning now". I walked out of the office, ... , and I said it wasn't personal, but I was deeply unhappy.
On the last project they promised payment "as soon as we collect from our client"... Well, they never hired the EE staff the project required and eventually their customer pulled the project without payment. I got left with 400+ hours of unpaid invoices. Never again.
I’d pay to see the video of the admin as they “but..but...but.. sputter.... “
On the last project they promised payment "as soon as we collect from our client"... Well, they never hired the EE staff the project required and eventually their customer pulled the project without payment. I got left with 400+ hours of unpaid invoices. Never again.
I've had a few companies I work with write this language into my contract. I immediately take out a pen and cross it out. My work for them is not dependent upon their relationship with anybody else. I wish more people understood that contracts are simply agreements between two parties and that both of those parties have equal standing and equal ability to change any part of a written contract. It feels so good to do it too, especially when the contracts admin on the other side is relatively young and doesn't know that it's allowed. They're shocked that I would have the audacity to cross out their printed form! Ha! I feel as if I'm teaching them a valuable life lesson by seeing this in action.
On the last project they promised payment "as soon as we collect from our client"... Well, they never hired the EE staff the project required and eventually their customer pulled the project without payment. I got left with 400+ hours of unpaid invoices. Never again.
I've had a few companies I work with write this language into my contract. I immediately take out a pen and cross it out. My work for them is not dependent upon their relationship with anybody else. I wish more people understood that contracts are simply agreements between two parties and that both of those parties have equal standing and equal ability to change any part of a written contract. It feels so good to do it too, especially when the contracts admin on the other side is relatively young and doesn't know that it's allowed. They're shocked that I would have the audacity to cross out their printed form! Ha! I feel as if I'm teaching them a valuable life lesson by seeing this in action.
...I really like my employer. Great boss, great colleagues, fun job, good money. Even the higher-ups are genuinely decent people.If you haven't already, try to spin this to the boss as backing her play to keep the team together.
But...
Honestly, this unit was the reason I joined the company in the first place. If it's dissolved, I don't want to remain here.
I was honest with my boss today and said that if our team was dissolved, I wouldn't stay - not as an ultimatum, but so that she isn't blindsided if/when I quit. She's been struggling to keep us together and I hate to lay more pressure on her, but yeah...I'm quite discouraged by how this is going.
.......
Not necessarily a full FU story since my management is actually awesome and didnt push back at this BUT I am now using 2-3 hours of PTO every week (which pretty much uses up my monthly accrual) to deal with being a two full time working parent household while not having childcare for two kids under 5. It will put me on some list the director keeps of 40.0s (people that dont give free OT to the company) but I don't give a shit because I have enough money I can go on an unpaid leave of absence if they want to push me! Based on my supervisor and manager I dont see this getting to the FU point but I am able to make this decision without the fear of repercussions that others might have because of my FU money. FU money for the win!
It will put me on some list the director keeps of 40.0s (people that dont give free OT to the company)
It will put me on some list the director keeps of 40.0s (people that dont give free OT to the company) but I don't give a shit because I have enough money I can go on an unpaid leave of absence if they want to push me!
If a benefit is provided to me I am going to use it. I see many people barely use their time off, set up imaginary hurdles afraid of consequences. FU money helps not giving shit.
YupIt will put me on some list the director keeps of 40.0s (people that dont give free OT to the company)
When I signed on with the company, they agreed to pay me $x/yr for 40hr/week. If they want 40+, they can pay me $x+. But it really should be a bit of give and take. If there is an emergency, I will work extra. Then when I need to go to the doc or some other errand, I expect to not have to use PTO.
If a benefit is provided to me I am going to use it. I see many people barely use their time off, set up imaginary hurdles afraid of consequences. FU money helps not giving shit.
When I was at the Big Company there were tons of people who would not use their time off to the point they would lose the time and this was when the vacation time was allowed to accrue up to a couple of years and they still lost it. One time I mentioned I was going on vacation and coworker said "Really? That's not the Big Company way" and my response was "Big Company gives me these benefits and I am going to use them". Big Company's benefits were generous and no way was I not using them.
Incidentally I never had a problem requesting vacation time, I always gave sufficient notice and worked around any really busy times which worked for me as well as for them. I didn't have the FU money at first but Big Company's paychecks paved the way to stash that FU money that enabled me to jump the Big Company ship years later.
If a benefit is provided to me I am going to use it. I see many people barely use their time off, set up imaginary hurdles afraid of consequences. FU money helps not giving shit.
When I was at the Big Company there were tons of people who would not use their time off to the point they would lose the time and this was when the vacation time was allowed to accrue up to a couple of years and they still lost it. One time I mentioned I was going on vacation and coworker said "Really? That's not the Big Company way" and my response was "Big Company gives me these benefits and I am going to use them". Big Company's benefits were generous and no way was I not using them.
Incidentally I never had a problem requesting vacation time, I always gave sufficient notice and worked around any really busy times which worked for me as well as for them. I didn't have the FU money at first but Big Company's paychecks paved the way to stash that FU money that enabled me to jump the Big Company ship years later.
Pfft to the Big Company way. Any Big Company that has an official "Way" is to be avoided at all costs.
If a benefit is provided to me I am going to use it. I see many people barely use their time off, set up imaginary hurdles afraid of consequences. FU money helps not giving shit.
When I was at the Big Company there were tons of people who would not use their time off to the point they would lose the time and this was when the vacation time was allowed to accrue up to a couple of years and they still lost it. One time I mentioned I was going on vacation and coworker said "Really? That's not the Big Company way" and my response was "Big Company gives me these benefits and I am going to use them". Big Company's benefits were generous and no way was I not using them.
Incidentally I never had a problem requesting vacation time, I always gave sufficient notice and worked around any really busy times which worked for me as well as for them. I didn't have the FU money at first but Big Company's paychecks paved the way to stash that FU money that enabled me to jump the Big Company ship years later.
...I really like my employer. Great boss, great colleagues, fun job, good money. Even the higher-ups are genuinely decent people.If you haven't already, try to spin this to the boss as backing her play to keep the team together.
But...
Honestly, this unit was the reason I joined the company in the first place. If it's dissolved, I don't want to remain here.
I was honest with my boss today and said that if our team was dissolved, I wouldn't stay - not as an ultimatum, but so that she isn't blindsided if/when I quit. She's been struggling to keep us together and I hate to lay more pressure on her, but yeah...I'm quite discouraged by how this is going.
.......
She can say, if you split the team up, the former parts of the team won't be there to pick up the pieces.
I'm reasonably confident that a boss I had played this card. SemiBigCorp HQ Question : How many of the 15 very core people would move to SemiBigCorp HQ? Boss answer: maybe one :-)
SemiBigCorp HQ: well we guess you can stay at current location.
My last pre-FIRE company was based in the fine state of Georgia. They tried to institute a use-it-or-lose-it vacation policy. I noped the fuck out on them, pointing out that I was their person in CA, and in CA, that's not legal, and they had to follow CA rules for CA employees. I made a lot of new CA friends when the company finally wised up. Later, one of these friends was let go after many years of excellent performance. I think his downfall was that he made his job look too easy, he was that good. During the severance negotiations, he said, "And of course, you will be paying me all of my back vacation pay..." "What?" they cried. Yup, in CA, the onus is on the employer to keep track of all vacation monies owed. We were part of a company that had been purchased and absorbed by the current parent company. Nobody kept any records back then. If you took time off, you just told your boss and arranged for someone to cover you. There were no official records. My friend got quite a nice severance package in the end. Serves those fuckers right.This sounds familiar. Long ago and far away, my CA company was acquired by a company in NC. The NC company had a use-it-or-lose-it policy. Our HR informed them of CA law.
My company just instituted early out every Friday. We can leave at 1 if we have 40 hours in, and OT is strongly discouraged. I love it!Enjoy it!
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is. At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take. Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job. His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list. It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment. The DH quit the next day with my blessing.This is pretty glorious.
Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post. The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck. The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is. At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take. Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job. His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list. It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment. The DH quit the next day with my blessing.
Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post. The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck. The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is. At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take. Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job. His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list. It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment. The DH quit the next day with my blessing.
Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post. The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck. The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
Epic indeed!I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is. At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take. Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job. His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list. It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment. The DH quit the next day with my blessing.
Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post. The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck. The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
What a fun story!
Wait, it could have also saved your lives. Now that's epic.
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is. At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take. Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job. His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list. It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment. The DH quit the next day with my blessing.
Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post. The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck. The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
I...
Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post. ...
I am really enjoying reading these stories!
It reminds me of my grandfather - when he first starting working at a factory (this was probably around the late 1930s) the work day started at 8am. Every day the boss would come out at 8am, lock the gates and not open them again until 8.30am. Thus if you were one minute late, you weren't able to enter until 8.30am and half an hour of your wages would be docked from your pay.
After many months of arriving early and working hard, one morning my grandfather had a puncture on his bike and was a few minutes late. The boss locked him out - my grandfather simply biked away, never to return!
He got another job the same day.
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is. At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take. Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job. His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list. It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment. The DH quit the next day with my blessing.
Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post. The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck. The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is. At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take. Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job. His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list. It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment. The DH quit the next day with my blessing.
Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post. The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck. The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
"pre-FIRE smoke break"...I love it!
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is. At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take. Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job. His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list. It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment. The DH quit the next day with my blessing.I just read this to DH and he's pretty adamant that you could file and be approved under the circumstances. Might be worth looking into.
Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post. The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck. The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
I had a fuck you moment with my boss today. I was supposed to take the notes today at the company annual meeting and a board meeting. Yesterday, I realised that they had made a procedural mistake in the process as a result of that the meeting was made digital due to Corona. The rules that guide the annual meetings are really strict and if you don’t follow them it can make the decisions invalid. I found it out accidentally so I outlined the problem to my boss at a meeting yesterday but she didn’t see it as a problem.
I could not let it go so I spent some more time doing research and half of the night thinking about it and came to the conclusion that I could not go to the meeting and pretend everything is ok. There is a point in the meeting agenda were the ask if the board has invited everyone correctly.. I talked to another lawyer this morning and we found a way to do it so it would tick all the legal boxes by changing the setup. My boss had a talk with the chairman of the board that is formally responsible for the meeting and they had decided to proceed in a way that partly hides the problem. Their solution could have solved the problem if they had documented the decision but it would have forced them to admit the mistake. Her concluding remark was that the chairman had decided that they would do like that.
So i told her that I could not take the notes as I could not sit there and pretend that everything is ok from a legal point of view. I told her that it would feel wrong and unethical. I suggested that a colleague could jump in and take the notes if it was ok to her.
She hates to admit mistakes and look bad in front of the board but she also says she can’t stand when people lie. I don’t understand how she explains this to herself. The funny thing is that we had a workshop about conflictsolving and resolution yesterday before this shit blew up. I could conclude to a colleague today that we had a conflict of values.
She avoided everybody after the meetings today so it will be interesting to see her approach tomorrow. Legally she can’t fire me and I would guess she didn’t want this to blow up in her face so I am not worried about losing my job. She doesn’t like conflicts so my guess is we will have a talk and then she will pretend that this never happaned. Me, I am pretty tired already after 7 months at this place so I am pretty much prepared to leave after my three months long notice with a bullshit reason. I have been thinking about starting my own law practice but within a years time when I have more money saved. I have money for a year without a salary. It is in stocks and cash but it is difficult to predict what the effects will be of this current Corona-crisis. I could probably find a new job without problems but I am tired of corporate bs and bosses and would prefer to be my own.
Edited to make it less rambling.
It will put me on some list the director keeps of 40.0s (people that dont give free OT to the company)
It will put me on some list the director keeps of 40.0s (people that dont give free OT to the company)
I am not familiar with this term 40.0s. Is there a phonetic way of saying this that means something? Does this mean the director keeps a list of forty people that are considered to be zeroes?
It will put me on some list the director keeps of 40.0s (people that dont give free OT to the company)
I am not familiar with this term 40.0s. Is there a phonetic way of saying this that means something? Does this mean the director keeps a list of forty people that are considered to be zeroes?
I haven't heard it either but I assume it's because they are working exactly 40 hours as opposed to even slightly over (i.e. won't work 40.1 hours).
I have seen employment offer letters that specify more than 40. Like you are being paid $80k/yr, but they specifically mention that you are expected to work 50-60 hours. In those instances the salary and the expectations are crystal clear though. All of my offer letters have been based off of 40 hours, so that is what I work. If they want more than 40 they need to specify up front so we can all agree, otherwise I'm not just giving my time to the company for free.
I had a fuck you moment with my boss today. I was supposed to take the notes today at the company annual meeting and a board meeting. Yesterday, I realised that they had made a procedural mistake in the process as a result of that the meeting was made digital due to Corona. The rules that guide the annual meetings are really strict and if you don’t follow them it can make the decisions invalid. I found it out accidentally so I outlined the problem to my boss at a meeting yesterday but she didn’t see it as a problem.
I could not let it go so I spent some more time doing research and half of the night thinking about it and came to the conclusion that I could not go to the meeting and pretend everything is ok. There is a point in the meeting agenda were the ask if the board has invited everyone correctly.. I talked to another lawyer this morning and we found a way to do it so it would tick all the legal boxes by changing the setup. My boss had a talk with the chairman of the board that is formally responsible for the meeting and they had decided to proceed in a way that partly hides the problem. Their solution could have solved the problem if they had documented the decision but it would have forced them to admit the mistake. Her concluding remark was that the chairman had decided that they would do like that.
So i told her that I could not take the notes as I could not sit there and pretend that everything is ok from a legal point of view. I told her that it would feel wrong and unethical. I suggested that a colleague could jump in and take the notes if it was ok to her.
She hates to admit mistakes and look bad in front of the board but she also says she can’t stand when people lie. I don’t understand how she explains this to herself. The funny thing is that we had a workshop about conflictsolving and resolution yesterday before this shit blew up. I could conclude to a colleague today that we had a conflict of values.
She avoided everybody after the meetings today so it will be interesting to see her approach tomorrow. Legally she can’t fire me and I would guess she didn’t want this to blow up in her face so I am not worried about losing my job. She doesn’t like conflicts so my guess is we will have a talk and then she will pretend that this never happaned. Me, I am pretty tired already after 7 months at this place so I am pretty much prepared to leave after my three months long notice with a bullshit reason. I have been thinking about starting my own law practice but within a years time when I have more money saved. I have money for a year without a salary. It is in stocks and cash but it is difficult to predict what the effects will be of this current Corona-crisis. I could probably find a new job without problems but I am tired of corporate bs and bosses and would prefer to be my own.
Edited to make it less rambling.
Always good to take actions that help you sleep at night. I'm glad you have options to carry you on the the next job if this doesn't work out.
Yes, it is nice to have options. She gave me a speech today of how she has less trust in me as I had put the reputation of the company in jeopardy and caused trouble for her and my colleague. I will apologize to my colleague tomorrow for putting her in a difficult spot but I knew that she was totally capable to pull it off. I also got a legal letter that notified me that she thought I had violated my work contract by refusing doing a task and that was in breech with my loyalty duty to the company as it could have damaged the owners picture of the company. It should be read that it could have damaged the picture of her.What I have learned from a lot of other people's experience is to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, and back it up somewhere separate, i.e. somewhere where you won't lose access to it upon separation. In your response, lay out explicitly what the request was, and how/why it was unethical/illegal/whatever, and the potential consequences of requiring an employee to perform said request. It may also be appropriate to CC others in the chain of command, so that there's no plausible deniability.
And by that action she pretty much guaranteed that she will get my letter of resignation. I haven't decided if she will get it right before her vacation starts or after I am back from my vacation. Probably after my vacation because by postponing it until the end of august I can sock away about 6-8 months of expenses during my period of notice. July-August will basically be vacation time. It will also allow me to explore some connections before deciding if I want be self-employed or not.
We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.
Yes, it is nice to have options. She gave me a speech today of how she has less trust in me as I had put the reputation of the company in jeopardy and caused trouble for her and my colleague. I will apologize to my colleague tomorrow for putting her in a difficult spot but I knew that she was totally capable to pull it off. I also got a legal letter that notified me that she thought I had violated my work contract by refusing doing a task and that was in breech with my loyalty duty to the company as it could have damaged the owners picture of the company. It should be read that it could have damaged the picture of her.What I have learned from a lot of other people's experience is to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, and back it up somewhere separate, i.e. somewhere where you won't lose access to it upon separation. In your response, lay out explicitly what the request was, and how/why it was unethical/illegal/whatever, and the potential consequences of requiring an employee to perform said request. It may also be appropriate to CC others in the chain of command, so that there's no plausible deniability.
And by that action she pretty much guaranteed that she will get my letter of resignation. I haven't decided if she will get it right before her vacation starts or after I am back from my vacation. Probably after my vacation because by postponing it until the end of august I can sock away about 6-8 months of expenses during my period of notice. July-August will basically be vacation time. It will also allow me to explore some connections before deciding if I want be self-employed or not.
We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.
Yes, it is nice to have options. She gave me a speech today of how she has less trust in me as I had put the reputation of the company in jeopardy and caused trouble for her and my colleague. I will apologize to my colleague tomorrow for putting her in a difficult spot but I knew that she was totally capable to pull it off. I also got a legal letter that notified me that she thought I had violated my work contract by refusing doing a task and that was in breech with my loyalty duty to the company as it could have damaged the owners picture of the company. It should be read that it could have damaged the picture of her.What I have learned from a lot of other people's experience is to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, and back it up somewhere separate, i.e. somewhere where you won't lose access to it upon separation. In your response, lay out explicitly what the request was, and how/why it was unethical/illegal/whatever, and the potential consequences of requiring an employee to perform said request. It may also be appropriate to CC others in the chain of command, so that there's no plausible deniability.
And by that action she pretty much guaranteed that she will get my letter of resignation. I haven't decided if she will get it right before her vacation starts or after I am back from my vacation. Probably after my vacation because by postponing it until the end of august I can sock away about 6-8 months of expenses during my period of notice. July-August will basically be vacation time. It will also allow me to explore some connections before deciding if I want be self-employed or not.
We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.
I will document it but I don't want to escalate it too much by spreading it through email to others as I will have to be in contact with them in the future if I want to work in that part of the field. The company were I work has a lot of money because it has been constructed to spread financing in the field during a 20 year period. I can survive without doing the work but I don't want to cut out the opportunity. My boss, who is the CEO, would need to be pretty stupid to let this out because I don't think it would be looked favorably by the owners or others that she tried to cover up things. I am the lawyer in the company. So when I leave the company most of the people outside the company will get a bs reason to why I leave.
Yes, it is nice to have options. She gave me a speech today of how she has less trust in me as I had put the reputation of the company in jeopardy and caused trouble for her and my colleague. I will apologize to my colleague tomorrow for putting her in a difficult spot but I knew that she was totally capable to pull it off. I also got a legal letter that notified me that she thought I had violated my work contract by refusing doing a task and that was in breech with my loyalty duty to the company as it could have damaged the owners picture of the company. It should be read that it could have damaged the picture of her.What I have learned from a lot of other people's experience is to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, and back it up somewhere separate, i.e. somewhere where you won't lose access to it upon separation. In your response, lay out explicitly what the request was, and how/why it was unethical/illegal/whatever, and the potential consequences of requiring an employee to perform said request. It may also be appropriate to CC others in the chain of command, so that there's no plausible deniability.
And by that action she pretty much guaranteed that she will get my letter of resignation. I haven't decided if she will get it right before her vacation starts or after I am back from my vacation. Probably after my vacation because by postponing it until the end of august I can sock away about 6-8 months of expenses during my period of notice. July-August will basically be vacation time. It will also allow me to explore some connections before deciding if I want be self-employed or not.
We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.
I will document it but I don't want to escalate it too much by spreading it through email to others as I will have to be in contact with them in the future if I want to work in that part of the field. The company were I work has a lot of money because it has been constructed to spread financing in the field during a 20 year period. I can survive without doing the work but I don't want to cut out the opportunity. My boss, who is the CEO, would need to be pretty stupid to let this out because I don't think it would be looked favorably by the owners or others that she tried to cover up things. I am the lawyer in the company. So when I leave the company most of the people outside the company will get a bs reason to why I leave.
Yes, it is nice to have options. She gave me a speech today of how she has less trust in me as I had put the reputation of the company in jeopardy and caused trouble for her and my colleague. I will apologize to my colleague tomorrow for putting her in a difficult spot but I knew that she was totally capable to pull it off. I also got a legal letter that notified me that she thought I had violated my work contract by refusing doing a task and that was in breech with my loyalty duty to the company as it could have damaged the owners picture of the company. It should be read that it could have damaged the picture of her.What I have learned from a lot of other people's experience is to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, and back it up somewhere separate, i.e. somewhere where you won't lose access to it upon separation. In your response, lay out explicitly what the request was, and how/why it was unethical/illegal/whatever, and the potential consequences of requiring an employee to perform said request. It may also be appropriate to CC others in the chain of command, so that there's no plausible deniability.
And by that action she pretty much guaranteed that she will get my letter of resignation. I haven't decided if she will get it right before her vacation starts or after I am back from my vacation. Probably after my vacation because by postponing it until the end of august I can sock away about 6-8 months of expenses during my period of notice. July-August will basically be vacation time. It will also allow me to explore some connections before deciding if I want be self-employed or not.
We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.
I will document it but I don't want to escalate it too much by spreading it through email to others as I will have to be in contact with them in the future if I want to work in that part of the field. The company were I work has a lot of money because it has been constructed to spread financing in the field during a 20 year period. I can survive without doing the work but I don't want to cut out the opportunity. My boss, who is the CEO, would need to be pretty stupid to let this out because I don't think it would be looked favorably by the owners or others that she tried to cover up things. I am the lawyer in the company. So when I leave the company most of the people outside the company will get a bs reason to why I leave.
You don't need to copy others in the email, but responding to the letter is great advice. In your response, I would also mention that you were acting in the best interest of the company. You noticed that the law would be broken, and you took all of the steps within your power to prevent the law from being broken. Frame everything from the perspective that you were/are attempting to follow the law while also respectfully yielding to her authority as your boss. Be respectful but firm in your communication. From what I understand, her actions are the ones that put the reputation of the company at risk.
ETA: After re-reading I'm not sure whether a law was broken or a rule (without the force of law) was broken. You're the lawyer and you're much closer to the actual situation, so obviously you should act as you feel is best. Regardless, it appears that you were not only acting in accordance with your ethical compass but also in the best interest of the company.
We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.What I have learned from a lot of other people's experience is to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, and back it up somewhere separate, i.e. somewhere where you won't lose access to it upon separation. In your response, lay out explicitly what the request was, and how/why it was unethical/illegal/whatever, and the potential consequences of requiring an employee to perform said request. It may also be appropriate to CC others in the chain of command, so that there's no plausible deniability.
I will document it but I don't want to escalate it too much by spreading it through email to others as I will have to be in contact with them in the future if I want to work in that part of the field. The company were I work has a lot of money because it has been constructed to spread financing in the field during a 20 year period. I can survive without doing the work but I don't want to cut out the opportunity. My boss, who is the CEO, would need to be pretty stupid to let this out because I don't think it would be looked favorably by the owners or others that she tried to cover up things. I am the lawyer in the company. So when I leave the company most of the people outside the company will get a bs reason to why I leave.
+1 to zolotiyeruki statement of documenting.
But wait, CEO gave you a legal letter documenting that there was, in fact, an incident? WTF?
This makes your documentation a simple matter of referring to the incident and the letter a no-brainer. But you as a lawyer already know this....just saying for others.
If I was the CEO, I _might_ have written an informal note as a reminder for later and NOT give it to you.
At the most the CEO might use it later for a PIP (pre-separation Personal Improvement Plan) or denial of unemployment benefits.
I certainly would not have documented or even acknowledged the existance an ethical incident.
Edit to add "even acknowledged"
Wow! Still? In CA, workers don't even have to attempt to look for work right now.I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is. At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take. Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job. His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list. It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment. The DH quit the next day with my blessing.I just read this to DH and he's pretty adamant that you could file and be approved under the circumstances. Might be worth looking into.
Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post. The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck. The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
We're in North Carolina where unemployment benefits are punitive rather than compensatory. Under normal circumstances, quitting (regardless of reason) is an instant disqualification for benefits (and you have to be fired in very specific ways or you wont qualify if you get fired either.) There are new Covid-19 exceptions that allow you to quit and claim, but you pretty much have to have an active diagnosis or live with someone with an active diagnosis or you don't qualify. For us, its not worth the weekly hassle (even sick you still have to provide proof you're looking for work - from your hospital bed presumably).
PA unemployment requires you to do I think 2 job searches a week on a state run website. But only after you've been unemployed for 30 days. I was unemployed for 2 weeks for covid, so I never searched.Wow! Still? In CA, workers don't even have to attempt to look for work right now.I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is. At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take. Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job. His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list. It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment. The DH quit the next day with my blessing.I just read this to DH and he's pretty adamant that you could file and be approved under the circumstances. Might be worth looking into.
Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post. The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck. The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
We're in North Carolina where unemployment benefits are punitive rather than compensatory. Under normal circumstances, quitting (regardless of reason) is an instant disqualification for benefits (and you have to be fired in very specific ways or you wont qualify if you get fired either.) There are new Covid-19 exceptions that allow you to quit and claim, but you pretty much have to have an active diagnosis or live with someone with an active diagnosis or you don't qualify. For us, its not worth the weekly hassle (even sick you still have to provide proof you're looking for work - from your hospital bed presumably).
Also, I'd kind of forgotten what state you're in (see, I'm not a stalker), but I remember when I worked for a company that was based in the South, they treated their workers like shit and totally got away with it. People with decades of service were earning a pittance and were grateful to have jobs. Quite a difference on opposite ends of the same country. On the plus side, see how successful I've been at erasing my working years from memory, lol? There's hope for my work-related PTSD yet.
yeah you guys figured out what I meant by 40.0ers. My company is heavy engineering and lots of engineering jobs (at least in the USA for the discipline I am) tend to work you for 50+ hours a week for salary compensation (no OT payment). At our company different levels are required to give "free hours" before OT becomes paid. So for example a Eng I would have to give 5 hours free before being paid for OT (so worked 46 hours, would get paid for 41 hrs). For a supervisor its 10 hours free before OT becomes paid. Its expected that you dont watch the clock, so 40.0s are considered clock watchers and minimum workers (our time is measured in 6 min increments and you have to clock in/out so some people do time it down to the minute for leaving). It has no bearing on amount or quality of work done. Sometimes it is true that a 40.0er is a slacker but its not always the case so to me the metric isnt useful unless you have other performance issues with the person. At the director level they are looking at Sales performance and the "free hours" are very useful to the company for making profits so they would love a ton of 45ers. Just a part of being at a MegaCorp. Since having kids I usually work 40-42 hours a week but now thats down under 40, haha.Ah, I don't miss those days. When I was in my 20s and 30s, I averaged a lot of hours every week. I think my first year at this one company it was 47.5 hours a week. That meant for every 40 hour week I had, I had a 55 hour week. It was a pretty brutal schedule but doable at my age. Those hours only decreased over the years. I remember the boss telling me that 45 minimum was expected, because "you know those last 5 each week, or 1 per day are productive, because you aren't sitting around just waiting to go home!" Um, it was actually in writing, which was illegal here at the time.
yeah you guys figured out what I meant by 40.0ers. My company is heavy engineering and lots of engineering jobs (at least in the USA for the discipline I am) tend to work you for 50+ hours a week for salary compensation (no OT payment). At our company different levels are required to give "free hours" before OT becomes paid. So for example a Eng I would have to give 5 hours free before being paid for OT (so worked 46 hours, would get paid for 41 hrs). For a supervisor its 10 hours free before OT becomes paid. Its expected that you dont watch the clock, so 40.0s are considered clock watchers and minimum workers (our time is measured in 6 min increments and you have to clock in/out so some people do time it down to the minute for leaving). It has no bearing on amount or quality of work done. Sometimes it is true that a 40.0er is a slacker but its not always the case so to me the metric isnt useful unless you have other performance issues with the person. At the director level they are looking at Sales performance and the "free hours" are very useful to the company for making profits so they would love a ton of 45ers. Just a part of being at a MegaCorp. Since having kids I usually work 40-42 hours a week but now thats down under 40, haha.
His internal reaction was, "Who is this guy who's trying to undermine me and get ahead of me?" A few days later his boss said to him at 5:15, "What are you still doing here? Don't you have a wife and kids? Go home!" It took him quite a while to realize that the organization really meant it when they said they value work-life balance.
Its expected that you dont watch the clock, so 40.0s are considered clock watchers and minimum workers (our time is measured in 6 min increments and you have to clock in/out so some people do time it down to the minute for leaving).Isn't it funny that a company
This was some time ago. I was working PT about 25-30 hrs/week as a tutor/teacher at a private accredited tutoring center. The boss/owner was not a nice woman and ripped off the desperate parents while paying us indentured servants (err.... employees) peanuts, in the range of $12-15/hr. To supplement my income I started a side gig in e-commerce and quickly started making more from the side gig than the job. Eventually, significantly more. Anyway, at some point I realized I wasn't going to work for this woman anymore and told her I was quitting. I'll never forget the look on her face when I told her I was leaving -- total shock. She just said, "good for you".
Then he switched to a religious nonprofit. He hadn't been there a week when a colleague stopped by his desk while he was typing with one hand and holding a sandwich in the other and said, "Dude, it's lunchtime. Take a break." His internal reaction was, "Who is this guy who's trying to undermine me and get ahead of me?" A few days later his boss said to him at 5:15, "What are you still doing here? Don't you have a wife and kids? Go home!" It took him quite a while to realize that the organization really meant it when they said they value work-life balance.
$15/hour for one of those tutoring services actually sounds higher than what I would have expected (I, too, was working for one).
$15/hour for one of those tutoring services actually sounds higher than what I would have expected (I, too, was working for one).
I think I started at $12/hr. Not exactly the best wage for a college grad, but I suppose it could have been worse too.
$15/hour for one of those tutoring services actually sounds higher than what I would have expected (I, too, was working for one).
I think I started at $12/hr. Not exactly the best wage for a college grad, but I suppose it could have been worse too.
I had a fuck you moment with my boss today. I was supposed to take the notes today at the company annual meeting and a board meeting. Yesterday, I realised that they had made a procedural mistake in the process as a result of that the meeting was made digital due to Corona. The rules that guide the annual meetings are really strict and if you don’t follow them it can make the decisions invalid. I found it out accidentally so I outlined the problem to my boss at a meeting yesterday but she didn’t see it as a problem.
I could not let it go so I spent some more time doing research and half of the night thinking about it and came to the conclusion that I could not go to the meeting and pretend everything is ok. There is a point in the meeting agenda were the ask if the board has invited everyone correctly.. I talked to another lawyer this morning and we found a way to do it so it would tick all the legal boxes by changing the setup. My boss had a talk with the chairman of the board that is formally responsible for the meeting and they had decided to proceed in a way that partly hides the problem. Their solution could have solved the problem if they had documented the decision but it would have forced them to admit the mistake. Her concluding remark was that the chairman had decided that they would do like that.
So i told her that I could not take the notes as I could not sit there and pretend that everything is ok from a legal point of view. I told her that it would feel wrong and unethical. I suggested that a colleague could jump in and take the notes if it was ok to her.
She hates to admit mistakes and look bad in front of the board but she also says she can’t stand when people lie. I don’t understand how she explains this to herself. The funny thing is that we had a workshop about conflictsolving and resolution yesterday before this shit blew up. I could conclude to a colleague today that we had a conflict of values.
She avoided everybody after the meetings today so it will be interesting to see her approach tomorrow. Legally she can’t fire me and I would guess she didn’t want this to blow up in her face so I am not worried about losing my job. She doesn’t like conflicts so my guess is we will have a talk and then she will pretend that this never happaned. Me, I am pretty tired already after 7 months at this place so I am pretty much prepared to leave after my three months long notice with a bullshit reason. I have been thinking about starting my own law practice but within a years time when I have more money saved. I have money for a year without a salary. It is in stocks and cash but it is difficult to predict what the effects will be of this current Corona-crisis. I could probably find a new job without problems but I am tired of corporate bs and bosses and would prefer to be my own.
Edited to make it less rambling.
Always good to take actions that help you sleep at night. I'm glad you have options to carry you on the the next job if this doesn't work out.
Yes, it is nice to have options. She gave me a speech today of how she has less trust in me as I had put the reputation of the company in jeopardy and caused trouble for her and my colleague. I will apologize to my colleague tomorrow for putting her in a difficult spot but I knew that she was totally capable to pull it off. I also got a legal letter that notified me that she thought I had violated my work contract by refusing doing a task and that was in breech with my loyalty duty to the company as it could have damaged the owners picture of the company. It should be read that it could have damaged the picture of her.
And by that action she pretty much guaranteed that she will get my letter of resignation. I haven't decided if she will get it right before her vacation starts or after I am back from my vacation. Probably after my vacation because by postponing it until the end of august I can sock away about 6-8 months of expenses during my period of notice. July-August will basically be vacation time. It will also allow me to explore some connections before deciding if I want be self-employed or not.
We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.
An update:
I have had two chats with my boss and a couple of ones with my union. In the first chat we concluded that she didn’t have the same trust in me as previously and I concluded that it had also affected my trust for her. She also told that she saw that it would be difficult to continue working together with the lack of trust on both sides and asked how I looked at it. I told her that I thought we should continue working as previously because now I realised there was a possibility that they would buy me out. If I can walk away with X months of salary I will be pleased to play the lets continue as normally-play. She told me that might be difficult and I asked what she suggested. She told me she wanted to get back to me after she saw my written reply to the legal letter.
I left my written reply yesterday at the office and emailed it to her this morning. Today at our meeting she came back to the issue of the difficulties to continue working together. She also pointed out that the chairman was responsible for the mistake not her. She continued that it was clear from my response that I only was looking at what was best for the company. She though that I could make a good job somewhere else. I continued on the same line and added that I saw no other solution than continuing working together due to the bad job market. The only available job was at one of our owners. After some back and forth I also mentioned that I saw no other option than continuing as I was not prepared to take the economic consequences of resigning. She told me that the company might be able to help with that but she would need a couple of days to come up with an offer. I really look forward to seeing her offer. To be continued...
An update:
I have had two chats with my boss and a couple of ones with my union. In the first chat we concluded that she didn’t have the same trust in me as previously and I concluded that it had also affected my trust for her. She also told that she saw that it would be difficult to continue working together with the lack of trust on both sides and asked how I looked at it. I told her that I thought we should continue working as previously because now I realised there was a possibility that they would buy me out. If I can walk away with X months of salary I will be pleased to play the lets continue as normally-play. She told me that might be difficult and I asked what she suggested. She told me she wanted to get back to me after she saw my written reply to the legal letter.
I left my written reply yesterday at the office and emailed it to her this morning. Today at our meeting she came back to the issue of the difficulties to continue working together. She also pointed out that the chairman was responsible for the mistake not her. She continued that it was clear from my response that I only was looking at what was best for the company. She though that I could make a good job somewhere else. I continued on the same line and added that I saw no other solution than continuing working together due to the bad job market. The only available job was at one of our owners. After some back and forth I also mentioned that I saw no other option than continuing as I was not prepared to take the economic consequences of resigning. She told me that the company might be able to help with that but she would need a couple of days to come up with an offer. I really look forward to her offer. To be continued...
I had a fuck you moment with my boss today. I was supposed to take the notes today at the company annual meeting and a board meeting. Yesterday, I realised that they had made a procedural mistake in the process as a result of that the meeting was made digital due to Corona. The rules that guide the annual meetings are really strict and if you don’t follow them it can make the decisions invalid. I found it out accidentally so I outlined the problem to my boss at a meeting yesterday but she didn’t see it as a problem.
I could not let it go so I spent some more time doing research and half of the night thinking about it and came to the conclusion that I could not go to the meeting and pretend everything is ok. There is a point in the meeting agenda were the ask if the board has invited everyone correctly.. I talked to another lawyer this morning and we found a way to do it so it would tick all the legal boxes by changing the setup. My boss had a talk with the chairman of the board that is formally responsible for the meeting and they had decided to proceed in a way that partly hides the problem. Their solution could have solved the problem if they had documented the decision but it would have forced them to admit the mistake. Her concluding remark was that the chairman had decided that they would do like that.
So i told her that I could not take the notes as I could not sit there and pretend that everything is ok from a legal point of view. I told her that it would feel wrong and unethical. I suggested that a colleague could jump in and take the notes if it was ok to her.
She hates to admit mistakes and look bad in front of the board but she also says she can’t stand when people lie. I don’t understand how she explains this to herself. The funny thing is that we had a workshop about conflictsolving and resolution yesterday before this shit blew up. I could conclude to a colleague today that we had a conflict of values.
She avoided everybody after the meetings today so it will be interesting to see her approach tomorrow. Legally she can’t fire me and I would guess she didn’t want this to blow up in her face so I am not worried about losing my job. She doesn’t like conflicts so my guess is we will have a talk and then she will pretend that this never happaned. Me, I am pretty tired already after 7 months at this place so I am pretty much prepared to leave after my three months long notice with a bullshit reason. I have been thinking about starting my own law practice but within a years time when I have more money saved. I have money for a year without a salary. It is in stocks and cash but it is difficult to predict what the effects will be of this current Corona-crisis. I could probably find a new job without problems but I am tired of corporate bs and bosses and would prefer to be my own.
Edited to make it less rambling.
Always good to take actions that help you sleep at night. I'm glad you have options to carry you on the the next job if this doesn't work out.
Yes, it is nice to have options. She gave me a speech today of how she has less trust in me as I had put the reputation of the company in jeopardy and caused trouble for her and my colleague. I will apologize to my colleague tomorrow for putting her in a difficult spot but I knew that she was totally capable to pull it off. I also got a legal letter that notified me that she thought I had violated my work contract by refusing doing a task and that was in breech with my loyalty duty to the company as it could have damaged the owners picture of the company. It should be read that it could have damaged the picture of her.
And by that action she pretty much guaranteed that she will get my letter of resignation. I haven't decided if she will get it right before her vacation starts or after I am back from my vacation. Probably after my vacation because by postponing it until the end of august I can sock away about 6-8 months of expenses during my period of notice. July-August will basically be vacation time. It will also allow me to explore some connections before deciding if I want be self-employed or not.
We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.
An update:
I have had two chats with my boss and a couple of ones with my union. In the first chat we concluded that she didn’t have the same trust in me as previously and I concluded that it had also affected my trust for her. She also told that she saw that it would be difficult to continue working together with the lack of trust on both sides and asked how I looked at it. I told her that I thought we should continue working as previously because now I realised there was a possibility that they would buy me out. If I can walk away with X months of salary I will be pleased to play the lets continue as normally-play. She told me that might be difficult and I asked what she suggested. She told me she wanted to get back to me after she saw my written reply to the legal letter.
I left my written reply yesterday at the office and emailed it to her this morning. Today at our meeting she came back to the issue of the difficulties to continue working together. She also pointed out that the chairman was responsible for the mistake not her. She continued that it was clear from my response that I only was looking at what was best for the company. She though that I could make a good job somewhere else. I continued on the same line and added that I saw no other solution than continuing working together due to the bad job market. The only available job was at one of our owners. After some back and forth I also mentioned that I saw no other option than continuing as I was not prepared to take the economic consequences of resigning. She told me that the company might be able to help with that but she would need a couple of days to come up with an offer. I really look forward to seeing her offer. To be continued...
Nice job. Thanks for the edit on the original post, it really did make the situation much easier to follow. The mustachian who started their own practice recently is @ReadySetMillionaire. It took me a while to remember, because RSM's not been posting as frequently lately. Maybe he'll see this bat signal, so I won't include any spoilers, lol.
I've been on these forums for a while and only just found this thread. So inspirational and awesome to read these stories- thanks!That awesome, you've set a new precedent! I bet there's a younger person there, male or female, who will have seen what you did and think that maybe when they have kids that their family can do the same. So WTG!
I don't have a big FU story, but a mini one. At my old company, I legitimately think I was the first male employee to take full advantage (3 months) of FMLA paternity leave (US unpaid family leave allowance) when my first child was born. My direct boss was supportive, but my department head, VP, HR reps, and others couldn't seem to understand why a male would want to take that time off. I kept getting incredulous looks and questions like "you know the leave is unpaid, right"? "Are you and your family going to be ok during this time"? It was amazing.
The best part about the whole thing was that the company's vacation accrual "cap" policy was so high that I had been able to save up ahead of time and got ~50% of the paternity leave paid for with vacation time. Many people also seemed dumbfounded that either A) I had the discipline/preparation to have that much vacation built up {asked by the few people I knew who always blew through their vacation time early each year}, or B) That I would actually burn through that much vacation time in one, solid chunk {asked by the majority of people that were actively losing vacation time because they were at the cap}... What else is vacation time for?
Just a small story...
For the past three days, my boss asked me to help out with a client facing role in a new process. I have several coworkers, but I got picked because I’m bilingual. It turns out that it involves being shouted at for an hour by clients. The first day was bad as the kinks hadn’t been worked out. I was told that they were working on a new plan and Day 2 would be better. The second day was bad too. After Day 2, I was told that they were implementing a new plan and Day 3 would be better. Yesterday was the third day, and it was the worst day ever for the process. I was screamed at by an irate customer (whom I just tuned out after the first 10 seconds). So at the end of the day, I told my boss that I quit that particular role. I’m not going to lose my job over this small insubordination (because the other person doing this role also quit the role after yesterday), but FU money means that I don’t feel the need to do everything the higher ups ask of me, especially if it involves having nightmares afterwards and waking up at 2 AM and not being able to sleep again.
Just a small story...
For the past three days, my boss asked me to help out with a client facing role in a new process. I have several coworkers, but I got picked because I’m bilingual. It turns out that it involves being shouted at for an hour by clients. The first day was bad as the kinks hadn’t been worked out. I was told that they were working on a new plan and Day 2 would be better. The second day was bad too. After Day 2, I was told that they were implementing a new plan and Day 3 would be better. Yesterday was the third day, and it was the worst day ever for the process. I was screamed at by an irate customer (whom I just tuned out after the first 10 seconds). So at the end of the day, I told my boss that I quit that particular role. I’m not going to lose my job over this small insubordination (because the other person doing this role also quit the role after yesterday), but FU money means that I don’t feel the need to do everything the higher ups ask of me, especially if it involves having nightmares afterwards and waking up at 2 AM and not being able to sleep again.
"I remain committed to help you in a calm, polite, professional manner. Let me know when you would like to begin." And gently walk out the door.
"I remain committed to help you in a calm, polite, professional manner. Let me know when you would like to begin." And gently walk out the door.
Ooooh, I'm saving that one for future potential use.
Just a small story...
For the past three days, my boss asked me to help out with a client facing role in a new process. I have several coworkers, but I got picked because I’m bilingual. It turns out that it involves being shouted at for an hour by clients. The first day was bad as the kinks hadn’t been worked out. I was told that they were working on a new plan and Day 2 would be better. The second day was bad too. After Day 2, I was told that they were implementing a new plan and Day 3 would be better. Yesterday was the third day, and it was the worst day ever for the process. I was screamed at by an irate customer (whom I just tuned out after the first 10 seconds). So at the end of the day, I told my boss that I quit that particular role. I’m not going to lose my job over this small insubordination (because the other person doing this role also quit the role after yesterday), but FU money means that I don’t feel the need to do everything the higher ups ask of me, especially if it involves having nightmares afterwards and waking up at 2 AM and not being able to sleep again.
One way to disarm the screaming is to quietly say, "Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir." and repeat until they stop screaming for a bit.
Then look them straight in the eye and say, "There are only two people in this conversation who care about what you need to have happen. And one of them is about to lose interest." Smile for one brief second. That special smile that isn't a sunny smile, it's not a smirk, it's a FU smile that shows you don't need them, they need you. And then say nothing more until they decide whether they want to be helped or they want to scream. If they want to keep screaming, you pick up your stuff, with the comment, "I remain committed to help you in a calm, polite, professional manner. Let me know when you would like to begin." And gently walk out the door.
Nice job. Thanks for the edit on the original post, it really did make the situation much easier to follow. The mustachian who started their own practice recently is @ReadySetMillionaire. It took me a while to remember, because RSM's not been posting as frequently lately. Maybe he'll see this bat signal, so I won't include any spoilers, lol.
PM with any solo practice questions; I'll provide an update in my thread here soon.
Cheers!
In the first chat we concluded that she didn’t have the same trust in me as previously and I concluded that it had also affected my trust for her.
So glad you were able to say this to her.
One way to disarm the screaming is to quietly say, "Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir." and repeat until they stop screaming for a bit.
Then look them straight in the eye and say, "There are only two people in this conversation who care about what you need to have happen. And one of them is about to lose interest." Smile for one brief second. That special smile that isn't a sunny smile, it's not a smirk, it's a FU smile that shows you don't need them, they need you. And then say nothing more until they decide whether they want to be helped or they want to scream. If they want to keep screaming, you pick up your stuff, with the comment, "I remain committed to help you in a calm, polite, professional manner. Let me know when you would like to begin." And gently walk out the door.
Just a small story...
For the past three days, my boss asked me to help out with a client facing role in a new process. I have several coworkers, but I got picked because I’m bilingual. It turns out that it involves being shouted at for an hour by clients. The first day was bad as the kinks hadn’t been worked out. I was told that they were working on a new plan and Day 2 would be better. The second day was bad too. After Day 2, I was told that they were implementing a new plan and Day 3 would be better. Yesterday was the third day, and it was the worst day ever for the process. I was screamed at by an irate customer (whom I just tuned out after the first 10 seconds). So at the end of the day, I told my boss that I quit that particular role. I’m not going to lose my job over this small insubordination (because the other person doing this role also quit the role after yesterday), but FU money means that I don’t feel the need to do everything the higher ups ask of me, especially if it involves having nightmares afterwards and waking up at 2 AM and not being able to sleep again.
One way to disarm the screaming is to quietly say, "Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir." and repeat until they stop screaming for a bit.
Then look them straight in the eye and say, "There are only two people in this conversation who care about what you need to have happen. And one of them is about to lose interest." Smile for one brief second. That special smile that isn't a sunny smile, it's not a smirk, it's a FU smile that shows you don't need them, they need you. And then say nothing more until they decide whether they want to be helped or they want to scream. If they want to keep screaming, you pick up your stuff, with the comment, "I remain committed to help you in a calm, polite, professional manner. Let me know when you would like to begin." And gently walk out the door.
I was going to say that I’ll report back to let you know if that tactic is transferable to Chinese culture, but then I realized I can’t because I quit that role. :D
Just a small story...
For the past three days, my boss asked me to help out with a client facing role in a new process. I have several coworkers, but I got picked because I’m bilingual. It turns out that it involves being shouted at for an hour by clients. The first day was bad as the kinks hadn’t been worked out. I was told that they were working on a new plan and Day 2 would be better. The second day was bad too. After Day 2, I was told that they were implementing a new plan and Day 3 would be better. Yesterday was the third day, and it was the worst day ever for the process. I was screamed at by an irate customer (whom I just tuned out after the first 10 seconds). So at the end of the day, I told my boss that I quit that particular role. I’m not going to lose my job over this small insubordination (because the other person doing this role also quit the role after yesterday), but FU money means that I don’t feel the need to do everything the higher ups ask of me, especially if it involves having nightmares afterwards and waking up at 2 AM and not being able to sleep again.
One way to disarm the screaming is to quietly say, "Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir." and repeat until they stop screaming for a bit.
Then look them straight in the eye and say, "There are only two people in this conversation who care about what you need to have happen. And one of them is about to lose interest." Smile for one brief second. That special smile that isn't a sunny smile, it's not a smirk, it's a FU smile that shows you don't need them, they need you. And then say nothing more until they decide whether they want to be helped or they want to scream. If they want to keep screaming, you pick up your stuff, with the comment, "I remain committed to help you in a calm, polite, professional manner. Let me know when you would like to begin." And gently walk out the door.
I was going to say that I’ll report back to let you know if that tactic is transferable to Chinese culture, but then I realized I can’t because I quit that role. :D
LOL
Just a small story...
For the past three days, my boss asked me to help out with a client facing role in a new process. I have several coworkers, but I got picked because I’m bilingual. It turns out that it involves being shouted at for an hour by clients. The first day was bad as the kinks hadn’t been worked out. I was told that they were working on a new plan and Day 2 would be better. The second day was bad too. After Day 2, I was told that they were implementing a new plan and Day 3 would be better. Yesterday was the third day, and it was the worst day ever for the process. I was screamed at by an irate customer (whom I just tuned out after the first 10 seconds). So at the end of the day, I told my boss that I quit that particular role. I’m not going to lose my job over this small insubordination (because the other person doing this role also quit the role after yesterday), but FU money means that I don’t feel the need to do everything the higher ups ask of me, especially if it involves having nightmares afterwards and waking up at 2 AM and not being able to sleep again.
One way to disarm the screaming is to quietly say, "Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir. Sir." and repeat until they stop screaming for a bit.
Then look them straight in the eye and say, "There are only two people in this conversation who care about what you need to have happen. And one of them is about to lose interest." Smile for one brief second. That special smile that isn't a sunny smile, it's not a smirk, it's a FU smile that shows you don't need them, they need you. And then say nothing more until they decide whether they want to be helped or they want to scream. If they want to keep screaming, you pick up your stuff, with the comment, "I remain committed to help you in a calm, polite, professional manner. Let me know when you would like to begin." And gently walk out the door.
I was going to say that I’ll report back to let you know if that tactic is transferable to Chinese culture, but then I realized I can’t because I quit that role. :D
LOL
I’m happy to say that they ended up revamping the entire process so that no one needs to be subjected to that torture every again!
In the first chat we concluded that she didn’t have the same trust in me as previously and I concluded that it had also affected my trust for her.
So glad you were able to say this to her.
I was pretty pissed at her and I knew there was not much she could do legally.Plina, looking forward to hearing the next steps this week! This is truly epic to witness as it happens.
Thanks! Today, in our daily meeting that was concluded in about 5 minutes, she wanted to talk about "the other issue". She had come to the conclusion that if I didn't want to quit she could terminate my employment either due to "personal reasons" or due to "lack of work". I would be excused from working during my notice period of three months and I would also get some additional months of salary. Personal reasons is out of question as it is used if the employee have screwed up in some way and it would also punish me if I want to have unemployment benefits and insurance. I am not going to take the shit for this. Lack of work is an interesting excuse as we have recently hired people and you have a right to be rehired if there is a need to hire within a certain period. They have prepped everything for hiring a couple of more people. But as an employer you don't really have to show the lack of work. So either she had googled the options and taken the first response or her HR-advisor is really bad.
She also wondered if I wanted the union to do the negotiation, which I would have guessed was her preference due to her pained expression when I suggested that she would present me with a written proposal that I could consider and take to the union for review. The union has negotiators and lawyers that can negotiate on my behalf but after a talk with them I decided to go this route at least for now.
My guess is that she offers between 3-6 months plus the "no work" during the notice period, which would mean between 6-9 months of extra pay. I would guess that she doesn't want me to get back after my vacation in July-august but I will probably suggest that I work from home a week more to be able to do a nice handover to someone. But I will be prepping everything including a goodbye email to everyone in the projects that I am working in so I don't leave everything in a mess for them as the circle of people that work in the field is small and I don't want to burn any bridges. I have a bs reason for leaving and I would be pretty happy with getting paid for 6 months as I was prepared to resign and I haven't even worked 8 months in this place. I can live with that amount for more than a year without problems.
She is going to get back to me with a written proposal. As she is going on a three weeks vacation next Friday I would guess that she wants this to be finished before that but I am not in a hurry as I will go on a four week vacation in four weeks time. I would prefer that my notice period didn't start before august. The show goes on...
I still can't believe your boss is going to be allowed to waste so much company money getting rid of you just to save face on her end. If this ever comes out she will likely be fired over it.
I hope you can sneak by to your September goal date.
I still can't believe your boss is going to be allowed to waste so much company money getting rid of you just to save face on her end. If this ever comes out she will likely be fired over it.
I hope you can sneak by to your September goal date.
^^^ I also can't believe she's going this route, and hope you get all you desire from a departure.
Way to go @Plina, negotiating like a champ!
I love the way you keep checking your options, deciding the best path and then following it perfectly.
Way to go @Plina, negotiating like a champ!
I love the way you keep checking your options, deciding the best path and then following it perfectly.
I have to agree, well executed. My guess is that we are living if not in the same country, then at least under very similar rules and culture of business, and your way of doing things is probably the best I've heard of so far in similar situations :)
Way to go @Plina, negotiating like a champ!
I love the way you keep checking your options, deciding the best path and then following it perfectly.
I have to agree, well executed. My guess is that we are living if not in the same country, then at least under very similar rules and culture of business, and your way of doing things is probably the best I've heard of so far in similar situations :)
Congratulations, @Plina . I agree with others that you handled this very shrewdly. I hope it wasn't too stressful for you.
What a journey this has turned into. I can't wait to hear what happens next. I hope you use your time off well and when you're ready, land a great new job. I believe that word will seep out that you made a moral stand and others will come searching for you.
The agreement was signed yesterday and my colleagues got the news today. My boss told that I am leaving and that we have come to a mutual agreement that I will work my last day the 14 th of july. I hand over my stuff in August and we will have a goodbyeevent. Not any happy faces among the colleagues. We have had our first meeting about the upcoming handovers to those that are to take over my duties. I will start spreading the news about my departure.
I asked the colleague that I am closest if the boss had said anything as she called immediately after the announcement. According to her the boss had not told anything even though she had openly asked if anything had happened due to the strange mood that has been in some of the meetings. The boss had not given any reply.
11 days left to freedom...
The agreement was signed yesterday and my colleagues got the news today. My boss told that I am leaving and that we have come to a mutual agreement that I will work my last day the 14 th of july. I hand over my stuff in August and we will have a goodbyeevent. Not any happy faces among the colleagues. We have had our first meeting about the upcoming handovers to those that are to take over my duties. I will start spreading the news about my departure.
I asked the colleague that I am closest if the boss had said anything as she called immediately after the announcement. According to her the boss had not told anything even though she had openly asked if anything had happened due to the strange mood that has been in some of the meetings. The boss had not given any reply.
11 days left to freedom...
Awesome! Not sure where you are in the world but I think a Hawaiian shirt would be appropriate last day attire. Dont forget to slick work electronics of personal stuff.
I don't know if they're open in your area, but I've had pretty good success building out a Hawaiian shirt collection with some pieces in the single-digit range by checking out thrift shops.
When I realized my previous job would be ending, I started wearing Hawaiian shirts into the office every day, and made it three consecutive weeks without a repeat. I'd encourage you to buck up and spend $6-$9 to add the Hawaiian shirt to your look when you turn in your electronics.
I happened to mention during our lunch that I was not interested to work in a firm that thought work was life so she mentioned that they were open for working full- or parttime and they had no problem if you wanted to work from home extensively.
Update: I happened to check my workphone before I was going to put it away and I had received an email from the acquitance that I had a lunch with today. She had told her boss that I was on the market for a new job and that we had a really nice collaboration. So they would really like to talk with me about my plans for the future as they are recruiting. I happened to mention during our lunch that I was not interested to work in a firm that thought work was life so she mentioned that they were open for working full- or parttime and they had no problem if you wanted to work from home extensively.
I will have a chat with them and see what comes up. They are the best in the field at what they do as well as nice so they would be one of few companies that could derail my plans for a company of my own at least for a while. It would take my game to the next level.
Getting an FU story in real time is the best! Thank you for your story, your ongoing interactions, and your updates!
I had a really interesting Teams-meeting with the owner of the law firm and my acquintance. The owner started basically the meeting with "it is so nice that you are leaving your current employer" in the meaning that now we might be able to hire you. Then she asked why I was leaving and I gave the bad fit speech and also told that I was not in agreement with my boss and when I told that we had come to a disagreement related to legal administrative rules that I could not bend due to being a lawyer she just said "well done Plina". Then the issue of me quitting was out of the world. Our meeting was supposed to be one hour and it ended up being almost two hours of laughter. No talk about references or that other stuff when you don't know the people before hand. I have come in to contact with the owner in my work and in different work related occasions.
I like what the firm stands for and their focus on quality and not being as formal as some firms. Some benefits will not be as good as working for a larger company but that I can live with. They have a person going on maternity leave in the fall so I would have work immediately. We talked preliminary about starting the first of September, which would give me a 6 week vacation before starting. We have not talked about the salary yet but we will have a new chat on Friday. The biggest downside so far is that their office is in the other end of the town but I would only need to go into the office 1-2 days during the week and there was also talk about moving the office to a more central location. It is about 30 minutes bike ride to the office.
So if we can agree on the salary I will have a new job in September. This means that I reduced my time to fire with at least between 6-8 months without taking account my new salary. The funny thing is that most of the people will now believe (if this goes through) that I used my current position to trade myself up to a new and even better position.
I like what the firm stands for and their focus on quality and not being as formal as some firms. Some benefits will not be as good as working for a larger company but that I can live with. They have a person going on maternity leave in the fall so I would have work immediately. We talked preliminary about starting the first of September, which would give me a 6 week vacation before starting. We have not talked about the salary yet but we will have a new chat on Friday. The biggest downside so far is that their office is in the other end of the town but I would only need to go into the office 1-2 days during the week and there was also talk about moving the office to a more central location. It is about 30 minutes bike ride to the office.That sounds fantastic, and I hope it works out for you.
I like what the firm stands for and their focus on quality and not being as formal as some firms. Some benefits will not be as good as working for a larger company but that I can live with. They have a person going on maternity leave in the fall so I would have work immediately. We talked preliminary about starting the first of September, which would give me a 6 week vacation before starting. We have not talked about the salary yet but we will have a new chat on Friday. The biggest downside so far is that their office is in the other end of the town but I would only need to go into the office 1-2 days during the week and there was also talk about moving the office to a more central location. It is about 30 minutes bike ride to the office.That sounds fantastic, and I hope it works out for you.
One word of caution--I would advise you to not consider the potential office move when deciding whether to work for the new company. Plans change all the time, and it's far more likely that their office will stay where it is. I've learned from too many experiences that it's wiser to plan on what is, rather than on what a future (or current) employer says what might come.
So if we can agree on the salary I will have a new job in September. This means that I reduced my time to fire with at least between 6-8 months without taking account my new salary. The funny thing is that most of the people will now believe (if this goes through) that I used my current position to trade myself up to a new and even better position.
Good for you, that sounds wonderful! And hey, in a way you could say you did leverage your old position to trade up - you used your old job to display your commitment to moral/legal action, and that helped you get the new job :)
Then he goes on ... "All vacation time or days off are cancelled for the indefinite future" I raise my hand: "I have a day off Friday which was approved months ago by your predecessor for me to participate as best man in a wedding. It is out of town (250 miles away) and I cannot be here Friday" His response: "YOU WILL BE IN THE OFFICE THAT FRIDAY" My response: "Sorry but that is not possible. I will be out that day" Steam comes out of his ears again... and he storms out.
This made me giggle.Then he goes on ... "All vacation time or days off are cancelled for the indefinite future" I raise my hand: "I have a day off Friday which was approved months ago by your predecessor for me to participate as best man in a wedding. It is out of town (250 miles away) and I cannot be here Friday" His response: "YOU WILL BE IN THE OFFICE THAT FRIDAY" My response: "Sorry but that is not possible. I will be out that day" Steam comes out of his ears again... and he storms out.
This reminds me of a great FU moment I experienced long ago. Someone was needing a day off (for a pretty serious reason) when we were swamped to make a deadline. The boss told them in front of everyone "no, you cannot take Weds off"...they replied "You misunderstand, I wasn't asking if I could take Weds off, I was asking if I can come back to work on Thurs after I take Weds off...." ;-)
Me, too. What was the response from the boss?This made me giggle.Then he goes on ... "All vacation time or days off are cancelled for the indefinite future" I raise my hand: "I have a day off Friday which was approved months ago by your predecessor for me to participate as best man in a wedding. It is out of town (250 miles away) and I cannot be here Friday" His response: "YOU WILL BE IN THE OFFICE THAT FRIDAY" My response: "Sorry but that is not possible. I will be out that day" Steam comes out of his ears again... and he storms out.
This reminds me of a great FU moment I experienced long ago. Someone was needing a day off (for a pretty serious reason) when we were swamped to make a deadline. The boss told them in front of everyone "no, you cannot take Weds off"...they replied "You misunderstand, I wasn't asking if I could take Weds off, I was asking if I can come back to work on Thurs after I take Weds off...." ;-)
Wow, that takes guts to say something like that! I would love to know what the boss's face looked like in response.Then he goes on ... "All vacation time or days off are cancelled for the indefinite future" I raise my hand: "I have a day off Friday which was approved months ago by your predecessor for me to participate as best man in a wedding. It is out of town (250 miles away) and I cannot be here Friday" His response: "YOU WILL BE IN THE OFFICE THAT FRIDAY" My response: "Sorry but that is not possible. I will be out that day" Steam comes out of his ears again... and he storms out.
This reminds me of a great FU moment I experienced long ago. Someone was needing a day off (for a pretty serious reason) when we were swamped to make a deadline. The boss told them in front of everyone "no, you cannot take Weds off"...they replied "You misunderstand, I wasn't asking if I could take Weds off, I was asking if I can come back to work on Thurs after I take Weds off...." ;-)
Then he goes on ... "All vacation time or days off are cancelled for the indefinite future" I raise my hand: "I have a day off Friday which was approved months ago by your predecessor for me to participate as best man in a wedding. It is out of town (250 miles away) and I cannot be here Friday" His response: "YOU WILL BE IN THE OFFICE THAT FRIDAY" My response: "Sorry but that is not possible. I will be out that day" Steam comes out of his ears again... and he storms out.
I can't even imagine someone saying that and surviving as as boss here. As a boss you have to special reasons to deny someone 4 weeks of vacation during summer, such as a pandemic for example. The hospitals seems to have problems solving the summer vacations every year so they end up paying a lot of extra to their employees so that they will postpone parts of their vacation too a later date or to take extra shifts.
MY FU money came in handy at a moment 25 years ago, where I was hired as the credit manager of a regional branch of a national copier company that was floundering - and that was why they needed me, because they could not keep up with the receivables. The credit department was so overworked, that I would get 80-90 messages per day with NEW problems for my staff of 6 to address, on top of the previous day's, such that by friday I had over 400 messages that I could not return, after spending all week working on last week's 400 problems. Management was patient, and I was making progress, hiring 4 temps, getting the staff humming as a team, and collecting more money each week, reducing receivables outstanding by 15% in the second month, 25% by the third month on the job, etc. A real pressure cooker environment. In month 4 the CFO leaves, leaving me the 2nd highest financial executive in the region, after the comptroller, who has no idea how I do my job. Then the company hires a general manager VP with no credit experience - fun ensues. Without any research or understanding of the business situation, he calls a meeting of the department heads and gives a speech to "lay down the law" - including "as of now, all bonuses are cancelled" - so I raise my hand and ask the question: " Does that include bonuses that are legal obligations under a properly approved employment contract between myself and the company?" Steam comes out of his ears....and then the HR head confirms in front of the entire management staff that, yes, I am the only one with an employment contract that obligates the company to pay me bonuses if certain targets are met (and I am ahead of those targets already) for the next 2 years.... Then he goes on ... "All vacation time or days off are cancelled for the indefinite future" I raise my hand: "I have a day off Friday which was approved months ago by your predecessor for me to participate as best man in a wedding. It is out of town (250 miles away) and I cannot be here Friday" His response: "YOU WILL BE IN THE OFFICE THAT FRIDAY" My response: "Sorry but that is not possible. I will be out that day" Steam comes out of his ears again... and he storms out. After the wedding, I come in bright an early Monday to find he calls me into his office and suspends me. I am to return to my office and sit there doing nothing. I read the paper all day, and the next and the next. The Comptroller is told to do my job too, on top of his own. The Comptroller begs me to help him handle the weekly conference call with the main office CFO and Credit Manager who grills him on our progress ... and I answer all their questions. By the next week, I am reinstated in the job. But the finances worsen to the point that within a few more months, the situation is hopeless, and I am let go with the comptroller, and the VP, and the region is shut down. Soon after the entire company files for bankruptcy. But thanks to my employment contract, and my FU money, I had a helluva fun time pissing off the jerk VP, and became a bit legendary among the company staff - many of whom keep in touch.
I love my FU money, I used it a few times but my best was when I actually FIREd at the end of my yearly job review. I humoured my slimy supervisor the whole way through and gave him my resignation notice at the end......I'll treasure the look on his face forever :)
...
The boss told them in front of everyone "no, you cannot take Weds off"...they replied "You misunderstand, I wasn't asking if I could take Weds off, I was asking if I can come back to work on Thurs after I take Weds off...." ;-)
I love my FU money, I used it a few times but my best was when I actually FIREd at the end of my yearly job review. I humoured my slimy supervisor the whole way through and gave him my resignation notice at the end......I'll treasure the look on his face forever :)
You gotta give us more than that! lol
I love my FU money, I used it a few times but my best was when I actually FIREd at the end of my yearly job review. I humoured my slimy supervisor the whole way through and gave him my resignation notice at the end......I'll treasure the look on his face forever :)
You gotta give us more than that! lol
Agreed! More details, please! Sounds like a great FU money story to me.
Yesterday was my last day, after working at the same place since 2004.
I didn't do anything "epic" -- and many of my co-workers seemed genuinely sad (over video call) that I was leaving.
But damn, did it feel good to delete all the VPN software and browser history/cookies from all the sites to internal company resources!
Today I took a leisurely walk to the office, and dropped off my badge with the security-person on duty.
Monday, a new chapter starts! I could probably FIRE now, but I'm going to be starting a new job for the time being.
Last day at work today. Wohoo! I have delivered my last report. Emptied my computer and sent some goodbye messages to a group I work with. The funny part is that most of the people have just assumed that I change workplaces to somewhere else. It is like they can’t even imagine someone leaving their job without anything in place. :-) One person have asked what I will do now and I told her that I am considering between two options, but nothing is final yet.Congratulations, @Plina . I'm sorry you had to go through such upheaval, but am glad you took us along for the ride and that it ended well. Enjoy your time off!
We have actually agreed on a salary and I get a small increase but also 6 weeks of vacation which is one more then the standard. I could have gotten a bit more with less vacation but I prefer the vacation time. Plus a bonus if the company does well. We have not signed the contract yet as everything was decided last friday afternoon and their vacation started. I guess they figured that because I don’t have any notice period it really doesn’t matter that we sign the contract in the beginning of August. The owner told the employees the news and we have agreed on the terms so I consider it basically a done deal but I will not go public with it before the contract is signed.
If it does not happen I always have the option of starting my own firm. So now it is time to enjoy my free time!
We have actually agreed on a salary and I get a small increase but also 6 weeks of vacation which is one more then the standard. I could have gotten a bit more with less vacation but I prefer the vacation time. Plus a bonus if the company does well. We have not signed the contract yet as everything was decided last friday afternoon and their vacation started. I guess they figured that because I don’t have any notice period it really doesn’t matter that we sign the contract in the beginning of August. The owner told the employees the news and we have agreed on the terms so I consider it basically a done deal but I will not go public with it before the contract is signed.Putting yourself in a position where you can take a pay cut in order to get more vacation must feel incredible!
She's still getting an increase from her previous position, for the win!We have actually agreed on a salary and I get a small increase but also 6 weeks of vacation which is one more then the standard. I could have gotten a bit more with less vacation but I prefer the vacation time. Plus a bonus if the company does well. We have not signed the contract yet as everything was decided last friday afternoon and their vacation started. I guess they figured that because I don’t have any notice period it really doesn’t matter that we sign the contract in the beginning of August. The owner told the employees the news and we have agreed on the terms so I consider it basically a done deal but I will not go public with it before the contract is signed.Putting yourself in a position where you can take a pay cut in order to get more vacation must feel incredible!
She's still getting an increase from her previous position, for the win!We have actually agreed on a salary and I get a small increase but also 6 weeks of vacation which is one more then the standard. I could have gotten a bit more with less vacation but I prefer the vacation time. Plus a bonus if the company does well. We have not signed the contract yet as everything was decided last friday afternoon and their vacation started. I guess they figured that because I don’t have any notice period it really doesn’t matter that we sign the contract in the beginning of August. The owner told the employees the news and we have agreed on the terms so I consider it basically a done deal but I will not go public with it before the contract is signed.Putting yourself in a position where you can take a pay cut in order to get more vacation must feel incredible!
I love my FU money, I used it a few times but my best was when I actually FIREd at the end of my yearly job review. I humoured my slimy supervisor the whole way through and gave him my resignation notice at the end......I'll treasure the look on his face forever :)
Every day at my new employer brings a smile to me....
Attended the "Benefits" meeting last week. OH BOY, it's going to be nice going to the doctor whenever I want, for a $10 co-pay! Instead of doing the mental gymnastics of whether or not I think it is worth paying $250 to get something checked out!
My former employer had a HDHP plan, where the deductible is LARGER than the OUT-OF-POCKET-MAXIMUM is at my new employer! Holy Shit!
No idea what the moral of the story is. I just like not being in a situation where we have to do whatever "they" say we have to. We live up to our end of the bargain, but if they want to change the rules and we don't want to dance for them...we'll just walk away from it. In fact we've done that when buying houses too. It's actually why we have no mortgage on our current home.Oh, come on, don't leave us hanging! Tell us the house story, please!
Oh, come on, don't leave us hanging! Tell us the house story, please!
Every day at my new employer brings a smile to me....
Attended the "Benefits" meeting last week. OH BOY, it's going to be nice going to the doctor whenever I want, for a $10 co-pay! Instead of doing the mental gymnastics of whether or not I think it is worth paying $250 to get something checked out!
My former employer had a HDHP plan, where the deductible is LARGER than the OUT-OF-POCKET-MAXIMUM is at my new employer! Holy Shit!
that's great!
Oh, come on, don't leave us hanging! Tell us the house story, please!
It's not really that exciting of a story. Though I guess the others weren't exciting either.
I'll start with a different house. Mobile home actually. It was a foreclosure in a rural area. Waited for a price drop then offered something like $18,750 (each time we made an offer, had to bother the bank to get a new letter saying we had that exact amount available...didn't want to let on that we had more, they were nice to accommodate us like that). Well it's a done deal, lady says I can go ahead and switch utilities over, I drop some flooring off at the place so we can get started on it as soon as the contract is actually signed. Well there's a problem with the title (literally, they suddenly realized that they didn't have a title for the mobile home), the real estate agent basically turns on us saying she'll have to report that we've put our stuff on the property (I go back and get the flooring moved, no big deal, but she was being a total b*tch). Bit confused, I mean she said we could even turn the utilities on in our name (we had scheduled the turn-on for a later date, easy enough to cancel, but still). She made it very clear that the house was no longer under contract
Well, that issue was fixed in about a week. She expected us to honor the contract. I said "no, you made it very clear that the prior contract was null and void, I wish to make a new offer." She refused, so I had to contact HER boss and make her do her job. Got the place for ~$17,750 (maybe it was $17.5, I forget the exact number without looking through old paperwork). She was there for the closing and was NOT happy.
Current house. We go with one of those "we'll work with you if you have special circumstances" companies. I check them out, they're not half bad. And we do have special circumstances; we've been living in Australia the past seven years and have virtually zero recent US income (wife just started a travel job so we'd have some paystubs, they paid weekly so we quickly got the number of paystubs they needed). Basic stuff at first, provide tons of documentation (and fix the mistakes they made on paperwork they sent to us), show where every cent in the bank account came from (we had transferred our AUD to USD, so I had to show the AUS account it came from, the transferwise transaction converting it, then the resulting deposit in the current US bank account), etc. Few hiccups but from what I'd read about other people's experiences buying a house and the whole mortgage process, it seemed fairly smooth (we are EXTREMELY on top of things). Fast forward a bit, we're a couple weeks from closing. Mortgage didn't pass underwriting, they don't know why (that's your JOB), but quickly determine that they had submitted an extremely old survey (it's allowed to be 2-3 years old I think, but this was well over a decade old). Someone there dropped the ball big time. They say they'll get it done ASAP. Some back and forth, it drags on, Thursday becomes Friday becomes no later than Monday (the Monday of the week we want to close by). I forget the exact timing, but when it became apparent it was coming down to the wire, I liquidated both our IRAs straight into our checking account. Once it cleared I sent updated documents to the mortgage company showing the new bank balance and where the funds came from (I doubt it was actually needed, but I did it under the guise of "since you want detailed info of where every cent has come from, here you go"). Told them the funds were moved so we could purchase the house in cash in case they didn't get their stuff together in time. Lady freaked out a bit (mortgage company got $0 if we didn't actually get a mortgage with them). Checked prior emails, she wrote this verbatim:
"I know that you were wanting to just pay cash for the home if the deal could not close this week, but I’m not sure if it is a good idea to take all of your money to purchase a home outright. You then put yourself in a position to where if any emergency comes up, you may not be able to help yourself. You might also have to put off making changes/upgrades to the home."
Should note that we had more than was required to purchase the house, so we still had some funds for an emergency (plus, with no mortgage, the amount needed is lower, right?). And of COURSE we needed to immediately upgrade a new (to us) house (admittedly I did cut out a hole to utilize the space under the staircase).
Held firm. They told us about the process they had to follow, that we couldn't rush things, if they got X and Y done by Z then there was a mandatory three day period then we could close the following week. Held firm, said we were closing this Friday regardless. Then we got an email with this exact subject (minus personal info redacted): "FW: Encompass Loan #123456789, 'Name' is ready for Clear to Close by Underwriter". I could tell what was up right away, but played dumb and asked what is the difference between "clear to close" which we require no later than Wednesday, and this "ready to clear to close by underwriter" that you're telling me about? It was obviously a way for them to tell us the magic phrase "clear to close" without actually meaning it.
Wednesday rolls around, we wire the funds to the escrow after making a thousand percent sure that if the mortgage company gave us the actual clear to close by end of business that day, they'd refund all but the deposit. Was pretty nervous until I got confirmation they got the wire (didn't take long). Didn't help that our bank tried to get the account number wrong (maybe almost $200k isn't much for you, but lady, it's nearly all we have!). Don't worry, I always double-check everything (after the near mix-up on their part, I quadruple-checked both what was on their computer and the paperwork that was signed). Well, no clear to close by end of day Wednesday, so we tell the realtor this will be a cash sale (the title company needed one full business day to change everything over, so they had to know by end of Wednesday to have everything ready by Friday).
Of course Thursday morning-ish (late morning, but before lunch) we got the clear to close. Bank didn't bother notifying us (they were correct to not contact us, as we told them this was now a cash sale and they could stop working on the paperwork; the realtor is the one who let us know). Signed the paperwork Friday and started moving in ASAP.
Should probably note that kids and I had been staying at my brother's house with his wife and my mom for nearly three months. My wife had been there about two months longer with the idea to get a job and settled in by the time the rest of us showed up. Nerves were frazzled, and at one point in August I promised that "I'll do whatever I can to get us moved into our own house by the end of the month." The Friday we closed was August 30, waiting until the next week was completely off the table if we had any other option.
Having to start over with our retirement accounts was a big blow, but I'll admit it was nice to give the bank the shaft when they were trying to jerk us around. And don't worry, we dumped a large amount back into the IRAs before our 60 day rollover window closed (we did have to carry a balance on credit cards for a number of months, but eh...they're all paid off now and we're back on track).
More time I spend in the presence of my boss's boss - the more disappointed I am with that person. I am realizing likely unhappy I would be working in close collaboration with that person and how much my boss shields us from that person. It also explains why my boss seems defeated at times.
Oh how petty and small this upper level person is. I had worked with them on a few topics and was initially impressed but as time goes on it looks like they can't handle it and are bullying the people that answer to them for reasons unknown. Now I find out that my boss may be looking for another job.
Completely agree.
More time I spend in the presence of my boss's boss - the more disappointed I am with that person. I am realizing likely unhappy I would be working in close collaboration with that person and how much my boss shields us from that person. It also explains why my boss seems defeated at times.
Oh how petty and small this upper level person is. I had worked with them on a few topics and was initially impressed but as time goes on it looks like they can't handle it and are bullying the people that answer to them for reasons unknown. Now I find out that my boss may be looking for another job.
Take the time to truly THANK your boss for what he does for you and your team. They deserve it.
Plus, you might have a ready-made job waiting for you wherever they end up. :)
I try to explain to younger folks that they are only one sociopath away from being sick to death of their job and burnt out their career, so get that FU money lined up asap.
More time I spend in the presence of my boss's boss - the more disappointed I am with that person. I am realizing likely unhappy I would be working in close collaboration with that person and how much my boss shields us from that person. It also explains why my boss seems defeated at times.
Oh how petty and small this upper level person is. I had worked with them on a few topics and was initially impressed but as time goes on it looks like they can't handle it and are bullying the people that answer to them for reasons unknown. Now I find out that my boss may be looking for another job.
Take the time to truly THANK your boss for what he does for you and your team. They deserve it.
Plus, you might have a ready-made job waiting for you wherever they end up. :)
I try to explain to younger folks that they are only one sociopath away from being sick to death of their job and burnt out their career, so get that FU money lined up asap.
“I think we can all say that Nicolai has stretched himself very far with this agreement,” Øystein Olsen, governor of Norges Bank, said at a press conference Monday evening after his bank board’s crisis meeting Monday afternoon.
“I think it’s fair to say that Øystein owes me a beer,” Tangen told reporters when it was all over. “I asked Øystein if I could put the money in Norges Bank, but I’m not allowed to do that.”
Tangen seems to have some character:Quote“I think we can all say that Nicolai has stretched himself very far with this agreement,” Øystein Olsen, governor of Norges Bank, said at a press conference Monday evening after his bank board’s crisis meeting Monday afternoon.
“I think it’s fair to say that Øystein owes me a beer,” Tangen told reporters when it was all over. “I asked Øystein if I could put the money in Norges Bank, but I’m not allowed to do that.”
What is it that you dislike about him?
Tangen seems to have some character:Quote“I think we can all say that Nicolai has stretched himself very far with this agreement,” Øystein Olsen, governor of Norges Bank, said at a press conference Monday evening after his bank board’s crisis meeting Monday afternoon.
“I think it’s fair to say that Øystein owes me a beer,” Tangen told reporters when it was all over. “I asked Øystein if I could put the money in Norges Bank, but I’m not allowed to do that.”
What is it that you dislike about him?
Objectively:
a) He has messed up earlier and come very close to (or maybe over the limit of) corruption by inviting a lot of the most powerful people in Norway on a luxurious conference/holiday just a short time before he got the job. Whether that was really corruption or not: the head of the oil fund has to behave perfectly because we invest in companies all over the world. Today, "everyone" knows that there is no point in bribes. Rumors spreading, even if they are not true, will be costly and time consuming. The employees of the oil fund have the strictest anti corruption regulations imaginable, they can barely accept flowers if they hold a speech somewhere. So far, Tangen has not shown that he understands the role.
b) The reason we have so much money in the fund is that the population trusts that it is kept safe for them. If the oil fund manager is perceived as untrustworthy, the political will to save money might dwindle. And the Norwegian people in general have a very low trust of "rich people" (the amount of money is not very important; you can be rich, but you can't behave like a "rich person" ("riking")).
Subjectively: I like that the oil fund is boring and index based, mixed with equally boring property investments. I'm afraid Tangen will do more active investments. He has a very good track record, we might make more money, but I don't like it.
If he is worth billions would not the cost of the conference/holiday equal what it cost for an ordinary person to invite their friends for a party or dinner if you compare incomes and costs?
Tangen seems to have some character:Quote“I think we can all say that Nicolai has stretched himself very far with this agreement,” Øystein Olsen, governor of Norges Bank, said at a press conference Monday evening after his bank board’s crisis meeting Monday afternoon.
“I think it’s fair to say that Øystein owes me a beer,” Tangen told reporters when it was all over. “I asked Øystein if I could put the money in Norges Bank, but I’m not allowed to do that.”
What is it that you dislike about him?
Objectively:
a) He has messed up earlier and come very close to (or maybe over the limit of) corruption by inviting a lot of the most powerful people in Norway on a luxurious conference/holiday just a short time before he got the job. Whether that was really corruption or not: the head of the oil fund has to behave perfectly because we invest in companies all over the world. Today, "everyone" knows that there is no point in bribes. Rumors spreading, even if they are not true, will be costly and time consuming. The employees of the oil fund have the strictest anti corruption regulations imaginable, they can barely accept flowers if they hold a speech somewhere. So far, Tangen has not shown that he understands the role.
b) The reason we have so much money in the fund is that the population trusts that it is kept safe for them. If the oil fund manager is perceived as untrustworthy, the political will to save money might dwindle. And the Norwegian people in general have a very low trust of "rich people" (the amount of money is not very important; you can be rich, but you can't behave like a "rich person" ("riking")).
Subjectively: I like that the oil fund is boring and index based, mixed with equally boring property investments. I'm afraid Tangen will do more active investments. He has a very good track record, we might make more money, but I don't like it.
If he is worth billions would not the cost of the conference/holiday equal what it cost for an ordinary person to invite their friends for a party or dinner if you compare incomes and costs?
If he is worth billions would not the cost of the conference/holiday equal what it cost for an ordinary person to invite their friends for a party or dinner if you compare incomes and costs?
But that isn't the measure of the potential to bribe. Even if a gift is insignificant to give, if it is significant for the recipient then it might be enough to influence a decision. Looking like a bribe, or close to a bribe, or possibly a bribe is a problem in itself.
Tangen seems to have some character:Quote“I think we can all say that Nicolai has stretched himself very far with this agreement,” Øystein Olsen, governor of Norges Bank, said at a press conference Monday evening after his bank board’s crisis meeting Monday afternoon.
“I think it’s fair to say that Øystein owes me a beer,” Tangen told reporters when it was all over. “I asked Øystein if I could put the money in Norges Bank, but I’m not allowed to do that.”
What is it that you dislike about him?
Objectively:
a) He has messed up earlier and come very close to (or maybe over the limit of) corruption by inviting a lot of the most powerful people in Norway on a luxurious conference/holiday just a short time before he got the job. Whether that was really corruption or not: the head of the oil fund has to behave perfectly because we invest in companies all over the world. Today, "everyone" knows that there is no point in bribes. Rumors spreading, even if they are not true, will be costly and time consuming. The employees of the oil fund have the strictest anti corruption regulations imaginable, they can barely accept flowers if they hold a speech somewhere. So far, Tangen has not shown that he understands the role.
b) The reason we have so much money in the fund is that the population trusts that it is kept safe for them. If the oil fund manager is perceived as untrustworthy, the political will to save money might dwindle. And the Norwegian people in general have a very low trust of "rich people" (the amount of money is not very important; you can be rich, but you can't behave like a "rich person" ("riking")).
Subjectively: I like that the oil fund is boring and index based, mixed with equally boring property investments. I'm afraid Tangen will do more active investments. He has a very good track record, we might make more money, but I don't like it.
If he is worth billions would not the cost of the conference/holiday equal what it cost for an ordinary person to invite their friends for a party or dinner if you compare incomes and costs?
There are to ways to interpret it, and neither is good:
a) Tangen is an incredibly naive rich man who doesn't understand that inviting leading politicians, the current head of the oil fund, and loads of other powerful people, to an all expense paid luxury weekend is highly problematic. If he really is that naive, how can he be the leader of the oil fund, handling a trillion USD, and interacting with people who will buy him beers and then mention "we would like you to do us a favor, though"? Several of the attendees have had to make public apologies after the event - I doubt they are very happy about that.
b) Tangen knew very well what he did. He wanted more influence and power, and he invited just the right people to a weekend of luxury to get the right connections, and be able to contact them later for favors. That is corruption, and unacceptable. The argument for this interpretation, is emails surfacing where he has contacted people who were at the event to get information and advice about the available job as oil fund manager.
The third aspect of this: The reason we have a high level of trust in the Norwegian society is that we try to keep everyone on a level playing field. If I call the mayor of my city, I believe he will give me just as much attention as if a person with a lot of money in the bank calls him. Tangen showed that this belief is not right, since I highly doubt those on his guest list would attend if I threw together a barbecue in the garden and invited them to hang out. But hey, maybe I should try?
He was "friends" with some of them, but not all. And if he just was another rich financial guy, I would say the blame was completely on the people attending. But now he wants to be on the bureaucratic side of the table, and therefore it reflects badly on him that he created that mess.
As to the CEO of Volvo vs me: what Volvo says is important for a lot of people and the economy of the municipality. So it makes sense that he would get more time with the mayor than me. But the spouse of the Volvo CEO and I should be treated the same, although he or she probably has a lot more money in the bank. The money in itself should not matter.
On the issue of equality, there is a big difference between Norway and Sweden in mentality. You still have nobility and a long tradition of powerful families. When we were under Sweden and Denmark they tried introducing nobility to Norway, and we hated it. So as soon as we were free enough to make a constitution, we banned it. The king was chosen to avoid war (with a Danish prince on the throne, Sweden was less likely to attack). We expect the royal family to behave just like the rest of us. There was for instance a big shift in public opinion about dismantling the monarchy when the we learned that the princess had transferred from a public to a private school.
This doesn't mean Norway has less of this type of corruption than Sweden, just that the public reacts more negatively when something comes out in the media, and it is even more important that the leaders are perceived as part of "us common folks", not "those rich snobs".
A relatively weird story in running in Norwegian news now, and I'm not sure whether I agree with all decisions being made, but it feels like it might fit here:
We need a new leader for the oil fund (1 000 000 000 000 USD and counting https://www.nbim.no/). Nikolai Tangen, a Norwegian investor who has been living in UK was offered the job, but there was worry about conflicts of interest and (potential for) corruption. Part of the worry was that he owned large parts of an investment fund and loads of other stuff, total value in the billions range. After a lot of public unrest, and the parliament voting on whether to force the central bank to stop the process, it looked like Tangen had a FU moment. Sunday he declared that he was giving away the fund to a public trust (where he won't be part of the board), and the rest of his money, between 500 and 700 million USD, he will put in a savings account in a bank at ~0 % interest.
I still don't like him, I don't think he is the type of person we need for that job and I don't trust there will be no corruption, but I have to admire the attitude. And he will basically paying to do the job; the salary is ~300 000 USD, and he will be paying ~1.5 million USD in wealth tax.
https://www.newsinenglish.no/2020/08/24/tangen-cleared-to-take-over-oil-fund/
A relatively weird story in running in Norwegian news now, and I'm not sure whether I agree with all decisions being made, but it feels like it might fit here:
We need a new leader for the oil fund (1 000 000 000 000 USD and counting https://www.nbim.no/). Nikolai Tangen, a Norwegian investor who has been living in UK was offered the job, but there was worry about conflicts of interest and (potential for) corruption. Part of the worry was that he owned large parts of an investment fund and loads of other stuff, total value in the billions range. After a lot of public unrest, and the parliament voting on whether to force the central bank to stop the process, it looked like Tangen had a FU moment. Sunday he declared that he was giving away the fund to a public trust (where he won't be part of the board), and the rest of his money, between 500 and 700 million USD, he will put in a savings account in a bank at ~0 % interest.
I still don't like him, I don't think he is the type of person we need for that job and I don't trust there will be no corruption, but I have to admire the attitude. And he will basically paying to do the job; the salary is ~300 000 USD, and he will be paying ~1.5 million USD in wealth tax.
https://www.newsinenglish.no/2020/08/24/tangen-cleared-to-take-over-oil-fund/
I care about ethics and all, but wouldn't it be fine for him to take the $700 million and at least buy government bonds?
I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!
I saw the references to 40.0ers earlier in the thread. Admittedly I’ve only worked for one company coming out of the military, but I don’t keep a time sheet at all. How common is it for salaried employees to keep time sheets?
I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!
I saw the references to 40.0ers earlier in the thread. Admittedly I’ve only worked for one company coming out of the military, but I don’t keep a time sheet at all. How common is it for salaried employees to keep time sheets?
All the defense contractors I worked for pretended I had a salaried job but I was an hourly worker. If I didn't account for 40 hours I didn't get my full salary. Scummy but true.
Now, the timesheet had to be kept because the company billed by the hour, so they had to have the the documentation on the hours worked. Same when I worked as a salaried consultant for private industry (where I actually was salaried).
I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!
I saw the references to 40.0ers earlier in the thread. Admittedly I’ve only worked for one company coming out of the military, but I don’t keep a time sheet at all. How common is it for salaried employees to keep time sheets?
All the defense contractors I worked for pretended I had a salaried job but I was an hourly worker. If I didn't account for 40 hours I didn't get my full salary. Scummy but true.
Now, the timesheet had to be kept because the company billed by the hour, so they had to have the the documentation on the hours worked. Same when I worked as a salaried consultant for private industry (where I actually was salaried).
Same here. And it’s important to note that billing more than 40 hours never meant getting paid more than my standard salary. At least until I became a self employed contractor and billed myself out hourly.
I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!
I saw the references to 40.0ers earlier in the thread. Admittedly I’ve only worked for one company coming out of the military, but I don’t keep a time sheet at all. How common is it for salaried employees to keep time sheets?
All the defense contractors I worked for pretended I had a salaried job but I was an hourly worker. If I didn't account for 40 hours I didn't get my full salary. Scummy but true.
Now, the timesheet had to be kept because the company billed by the hour, so they had to have the the documentation on the hours worked. Same when I worked as a salaried consultant for private industry (where I actually was salaried).
Same here. And it’s important to note that billing more than 40 hours never meant getting paid more than my standard salary. At least until I became a self employed contractor and billed myself out hourly.
Yes!! The worst of both worlds!
I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!
I saw the references to 40.0ers earlier in the thread. Admittedly I’ve only worked for one company coming out of the military, but I don’t keep a time sheet at all. How common is it for salaried employees to keep time sheets?
All the defense contractors I worked for pretended I had a salaried job but I was an hourly worker. If I didn't account for 40 hours I didn't get my full salary. Scummy but true.
Now, the timesheet had to be kept because the company billed by the hour, so they had to have the the documentation on the hours worked. Same when I worked as a salaried consultant for private industry (where I actually was salaried).
Same here. And it’s important to note that billing more than 40 hours never meant getting paid more than my standard salary. At least until I became a self employed contractor and billed myself out hourly.
Yes!! The worst of both worlds!
Are these companies subject to State labor laws? Because if so, that's illegal.
I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!
I saw the references to 40.0ers earlier in the thread. Admittedly I’ve only worked for one company coming out of the military, but I don’t keep a time sheet at all. How common is it for salaried employees to keep time sheets?
All the defense contractors I worked for pretended I had a salaried job but I was an hourly worker. If I didn't account for 40 hours I didn't get my full salary. Scummy but true.
Now, the timesheet had to be kept because the company billed by the hour, so they had to have the the documentation on the hours worked. Same when I worked as a salaried consultant for private industry (where I actually was salaried).
Same here. And it’s important to note that billing more than 40 hours never meant getting paid more than my standard salary. At least until I became a self employed contractor and billed myself out hourly.
Yes!! The worst of both worlds!
Are these companies subject to State labor laws? Because if so, that's illegal.
In my examples at least it was not "required" that I work more than 40 hours a week. The experience sticks with me because I grew up very blue collar and have never fully shifted away from the hourly rate mind set. To me working unpaid overtime meant my hourly rate was decreasing. I asked other salaried people about that and they all said "salaried means I'm paid to do this job and how many hours it takes doesn't matter". That answer bothered me because finishing the job in 30 hours wasn't allowed. I was able to flex my time all over the place at the first company so I'd have 6 hours one day and 9 two other days and no one cared. That was the company from the previous epic FU money story...
Over the years I've come to the conclusion that the different ways people relate time and money explains much of difference in how we relate to money. It's a lot harder to spend wildly or be super generous when it feels like I've literally trades "X" hours of my life for the money I'm spending/giving.
Yep, illegal to dock pay, but if you have a "butts in seats" sort of boss, you'll get short-shrifted on pay raises, promotions, and an extra dose of hassle.I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!
I saw the references to 40.0ers earlier in the thread. Admittedly I’ve only worked for one company coming out of the military, but I don’t keep a time sheet at all. How common is it for salaried employees to keep time sheets?
All the defense contractors I worked for pretended I had a salaried job but I was an hourly worker. If I didn't account for 40 hours I didn't get my full salary. Scummy but true.
Now, the timesheet had to be kept because the company billed by the hour, so they had to have the the documentation on the hours worked. Same when I worked as a salaried consultant for private industry (where I actually was salaried).
Same here. And it’s important to note that billing more than 40 hours never meant getting paid more than my standard salary. At least until I became a self employed contractor and billed myself out hourly.
Yes!! The worst of both worlds!
Are these companies subject to State labor laws? Because if so, that's illegal.
In my examples at least it was not "required" that I work more than 40 hours a week. The experience sticks with me because I grew up very blue collar and have never fully shifted away from the hourly rate mind set. To me working unpaid overtime meant my hourly rate was decreasing. I asked other salaried people about that and they all said "salaried means I'm paid to do this job and how many hours it takes doesn't matter". That answer bothered me because finishing the job in 30 hours wasn't allowed. I was able to flex my time all over the place at the first company so I'd have 6 hours one day and 9 two other days and no one cared. That was the company from the previous epic FU money story...
Over the years I've come to the conclusion that the different ways people relate time and money explains much of difference in how we relate to money. It's a lot harder to spend wildly or be super generous when it feels like I've literally trades "X" hours of my life for the money I'm spending/giving.
You're not wrong, but if you're classified as salary, and you work less than 40 hours, then it's generally illegal to dock your pay if someone works less. That's part of the justification for not requiring overtime pay for working more than 40 hours.
I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!
I saw the references to 40.0ers earlier in the thread. Admittedly I’ve only worked for one company coming out of the military, but I don’t keep a time sheet at all. How common is it for salaried employees to keep time sheets?
All the defense contractors I worked for pretended I had a salaried job but I was an hourly worker. If I didn't account for 40 hours I didn't get my full salary. Scummy but true.
Now, the timesheet had to be kept because the company billed by the hour, so they had to have the the documentation on the hours worked. Same when I worked as a salaried consultant for private industry (where I actually was salaried).
Same here. And it’s important to note that billing more than 40 hours never meant getting paid more than my standard salary. At least until I became a self employed contractor and billed myself out hourly.
Yes!! The worst of both worlds!
Are these companies subject to State labor laws? Because if so, that's illegal.
In my examples at least it was not "required" that I work more than 40 hours a week. The experience sticks with me because I grew up very blue collar and have never fully shifted away from the hourly rate mind set. To me working unpaid overtime meant my hourly rate was decreasing. I asked other salaried people about that and they all said "salaried means I'm paid to do this job and how many hours it takes doesn't matter". That answer bothered me because finishing the job in 30 hours wasn't allowed. I was able to flex my time all over the place at the first company so I'd have 6 hours one day and 9 two other days and no one cared. That was the company from the previous epic FU money story...
Over the years I've come to the conclusion that the different ways people relate time and money explains much of difference in how we relate to money. It's a lot harder to spend wildly or be super generous when it feels like I've literally trades "X" hours of my life for the money I'm spending/giving.
You're not wrong, but if you're classified as salary, and you work less than 40 hours, then it's generally illegal to dock your pay if someone works less. That's part of the justification for not requiring overtime pay for working more than 40 hours.
Perhaps more in the “polite ‘no thank you’” than the “epic FU”, but still feeling pretty Epic right now.
Yours truly, a day later: I have just applied for these other internal positions. I hope you will support my transfer.
Yours truly, a day later: I have just applied for these other internal positions. I hope you will support my transfer.
If there's any danger whatsoever that your current bosses would try to block an internal move, you'd do well to look externally, too.
Yours truly, a day later: I have just applied for these other internal positions. I hope you will support my transfer.
If there's any danger whatsoever that your current bosses would try to block an internal move, you'd do well to look externally, too.
I have applied to more external positions than internal. But, unlike the internal positions, I don't have to tell my bosses about the external positions until my departure is imminent.
Perhaps more in the “polite ‘no thank you’” than the “epic FU”, but still feeling pretty Epic right now...
Yours truly, a day later: I have just applied for these other internal positions. I hope you will support my transfer.
I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!
I saw the references to 40.0ers earlier in the thread. Admittedly I’ve only worked for one company coming out of the military, but I don’t keep a time sheet at all. How common is it for salaried employees to keep time sheets?
I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!
I saw the references to 40.0ers earlier in the thread. Admittedly I’ve only worked for one company coming out of the military, but I don’t keep a time sheet at all. How common is it for salaried employees to keep time sheets?
All the defense contractors I worked for pretended I had a salaried job but I was an hourly worker. If I didn't account for 40 hours I didn't get my full salary. Scummy but true.
Now, the timesheet had to be kept because the company billed by the hour, so they had to have the the documentation on the hours worked. Same when I worked as a salaried consultant for private industry (where I actually was salaried).
Same here. And it’s important to note that billing more than 40 hours never meant getting paid more than my standard salary. At least until I became a self employed contractor and billed myself out hourly.
Yes!! The worst of both worlds!
Are these companies subject to State labor laws? Because if so, that's illegal.
In my examples at least it was not "required" that I work more than 40 hours a week. The experience sticks with me because I grew up very blue collar and have never fully shifted away from the hourly rate mind set. To me working unpaid overtime meant my hourly rate was decreasing. I asked other salaried people about that and they all said "salaried means I'm paid to do this job and how many hours it takes doesn't matter". That answer bothered me because finishing the job in 30 hours wasn't allowed. I was able to flex my time all over the place at the first company so I'd have 6 hours one day and 9 two other days and no one cared. That was the company from the previous epic FU money story...
Over the years I've come to the conclusion that the different ways people relate time and money explains much of difference in how we relate to money. It's a lot harder to spend wildly or be super generous when it feels like I've literally trades "X" hours of my life for the money I'm spending/giving.
You're not wrong, but if you're classified as salary, and you work less than 40 hours, then it's generally illegal to dock your pay if someone works less. That's part of the justification for not requiring overtime pay for working more than 40 hours.
Actually...I don't think that's legal. ^^^ It might be stricter in my state (most things are), but generally if they treat you as an hourly employee, then they have to classify you as one. The guidance we were given by the AGs office is that salaried employees should always take their PTO in 4 or 8 hour increments. If they're being required to put in 1-2 hour vacation or sick time increments, then they're hourly employees and need to be classified that way. It's one of the things that falls in favor of the employee, not the employer, so to keep from running afoul of the law, they should not be topping off people's under 40 with vacation or sick. JMHO
Same thing happened to a friend of mine; someone made a labor complaint, and next thing you know he and bunch of other people in professional positions were reclassified as hourly. There's a big difference between what companies get away with (most of the time), and what's actually legal. And sometimes it's a case by case thing.Actually...I don't think that's legal. ^^^ It might be stricter in my state (most things are), but generally if they treat you as an hourly employee, then they have to classify you as one. The guidance we were given by the AGs office is that salaried employees should always take their PTO in 4 or 8 hour increments. If they're being required to put in 1-2 hour vacation or sick time increments, then they're hourly employees and need to be classified that way. It's one of the things that falls in favor of the employee, not the employer, so to keep from running afoul of the law, they should not be topping off people's under 40 with vacation or sick. JMHO
This has been something that I've been going through at work. I've been (probably rightly) classified as exempt for the last 11 years. The new HR specialist came in and audited my status and decided that I should be non-exempt. I got a nice chunk of backpay for 300-400 hours of backpay over the last 2 years, but I'm not convinced that the next HR specialist won't reverse that and ask for it back.
I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!
Perhaps more in the “polite ‘no thank you’” than the “epic FU”, but still feeling pretty Epic right now.I don't know how I missed this.
Business Clients: We need X, built in this way.
Yours truly: This is pretty expensive. You could consider alternative A, which gets you 80% of what you need in about 20% of the time, or alternative B, which gets you 95% of what you need in 40% of the time.
Business Client Director: No. We need X, built in this way.
Yours truly to my managers: Thats fine. Based on historical time and the best numbers and research we have, we can have this ready for you between August and November of 2021.
My managers: Yikes! They’ll never go for that. We will present that we can have it between March and April of 2021.
Yours truly: Based on history and everything that we know, that is unlikely to be true. Remember that there are alternatives that are realistic though less complete, in that timeline.
My managers to my director: We can have it done between March and April of 2021.
My managers and director to Business Client Director: We can have it done between March and April of 2021.
Business Client Director: We need it done by December 2020.
My managers to Business Client Director: We can revisit alternative A, which is feasible in that time frame, or alternative B, which can be done in just a few additional months.
Business Client Director: No. We need X, built in this way. By December 2020.
My Director: You will have it.
My Managers: Okay, we understand. You will have it.
My Managers to me: We will have to have it done by December 2020 in this way. Here is a plan that, if we execute perfectly an a way that we have never done before, we hope will get us done by December 2020.
Yours truly: With this plan, the delivery date calculates out to June of 2021? That’s an improvement, but…
My Managers: Well, you will work something out.
Yours truly, a day later: I have just applied for these other internal positions. I hope you will support my transfer.
Same thing happened to a friend of mine; someone made a labor complaint, and next thing you know he and bunch of other people in professional positions were reclassified as hourly. There's a big difference between what companies get away with (most of the time), and what's actually legal. And sometimes it's a case by case thing.Actually...I don't think that's legal. ^^^ It might be stricter in my state (most things are), but generally if they treat you as an hourly employee, then they have to classify you as one. The guidance we were given by the AGs office is that salaried employees should always take their PTO in 4 or 8 hour increments. If they're being required to put in 1-2 hour vacation or sick time increments, then they're hourly employees and need to be classified that way. It's one of the things that falls in favor of the employee, not the employer, so to keep from running afoul of the law, they should not be topping off people's under 40 with vacation or sick. JMHO
This has been something that I've been going through at work. I've been (probably rightly) classified as exempt for the last 11 years. The new HR specialist came in and audited my status and decided that I should be non-exempt. I got a nice chunk of backpay for 300-400 hours of backpay over the last 2 years, but I'm not convinced that the next HR specialist won't reverse that and ask for it back.
Perhaps more in the “polite ‘no thank you’” than the “epic FU”, but still feeling pretty Epic right now.I don't know how I missed this.
Business Clients: We need X, built in this way.
Yours truly: This is pretty expensive. You could consider alternative A, which gets you 80% of what you need in about 20% of the time, or alternative B, which gets you 95% of what you need in 40% of the time.
Business Client Director: No. We need X, built in this way.
Yours truly to my managers: Thats fine. Based on historical time and the best numbers and research we have, we can have this ready for you between August and November of 2021.
My managers: Yikes! They’ll never go for that. We will present that we can have it between March and April of 2021.
Yours truly: Based on history and everything that we know, that is unlikely to be true. Remember that there are alternatives that are realistic though less complete, in that timeline.
My managers to my director: We can have it done between March and April of 2021.
My managers and director to Business Client Director: We can have it done between March and April of 2021.
Business Client Director: We need it done by December 2020.
My managers to Business Client Director: We can revisit alternative A, which is feasible in that time frame, or alternative B, which can be done in just a few additional months.
Business Client Director: No. We need X, built in this way. By December 2020.
My Director: You will have it.
My Managers: Okay, we understand. You will have it.
My Managers to me: We will have to have it done by December 2020 in this way. Here is a plan that, if we execute perfectly an a way that we have never done before, we hope will get us done by December 2020.
Yours truly: With this plan, the delivery date calculates out to June of 2021? That’s an improvement, but…
My Managers: Well, you will work something out.
Yours truly, a day later: I have just applied for these other internal positions. I hope you will support my transfer.
This is my life. Our company got into an agreement with another company with milestones for four projects built into the calendar for 2-3 years.
Not a single milestone is/was achievable based on how long it takes to actually build things. Not a one. OH, and 3 of the projects had the same damn due date, and are competing for all the same equipment. Really.
I'm the program manager, who is always telling... everyone...here's the schedule but we won't meet it... lather, rinse, repeat for 4 projects for 3 years...
It was trying to meet those impossible deadlines as the lead engineer that drove me towards FIRE before I found MMM and had a word for it. There is nothing like sitting in a meeting listening to the supper optimistic promises being made and knowing it would fall to me to make it happen if it were possible. Oddly enough after I left that job I had a conversation with the ridiculously optimistic VP as friends and found the endless optimism really encouraging... It feels very different when it isn't my job to engineer their dreams into reality.
It was trying to meet those impossible deadlines as the lead engineer that drove me towards FIRE before I found MMM and had a word for it. There is nothing like sitting in a meeting listening to the supper optimistic promises being made and knowing it would fall to me to make it happen if it were possible. Oddly enough after I left that job I had a conversation with the ridiculously optimistic VP as friends and found the endless optimism really encouraging... It feels very different when it isn't my job to engineer their dreams into reality.
It's only been in the last year that I've started to think of deadlines more as "promise rings" than marriage. I don't know any actual stats but it seems like at least 80% of them are missed across a good few companies and their vendors in my experience.
Perhaps more in the “polite ‘no thank you’” than the “epic FU”, but still feeling pretty Epic right now.
Business Clients: We need X, built in this way.
Yours truly: This is pretty expensive. You could consider alternative A, which gets you 80% of what you need in about 20% of the time, or alternative B, which gets you 95% of what you need in 40% of the time.
Business Client Director: No. We need X, built in this way.
Yours truly to my managers: Thats fine. Based on historical time and the best numbers and research we have, we can have this ready for you between August and November of 2021.
My managers: Yikes! They’ll never go for that. We will present that we can have it between March and April of 2021.
Yours truly: Based on history and everything that we know, that is unlikely to be true. Remember that there are alternatives that are realistic though less complete, in that timeline.
My managers to my director: We can have it done between March and April of 2021.
My managers and director to Business Client Director: We can have it done between March and April of 2021.
Business Client Director: We need it done by December 2020.
My managers to Business Client Director: We can revisit alternative A, which is feasible in that time frame, or alternative B, which can be done in just a few additional months.
Business Client Director: No. We need X, built in this way. By December 2020.
My Director: You will have it.
My Managers: Okay, we understand. You will have it.
My Managers to me: We will have to have it done by December 2020 in this way. Here is a plan that, if we execute perfectly an a way that we have never done before, we hope will get us done by December 2020.
Yours truly: With this plan, the delivery date calculates out to June of 2021? That’s an improvement, but…
My Managers: Well, you will work something out.
Yours truly, a day later: I have just applied for these other internal positions. I hope you will support my transfer.
I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!
Thanks @Montecarlo!
I had my first real workday at the new job today. Looking good so far. :) I started it last week with a conference at a spa.
I visited my former job last Monday to return my computer etc. We had an akward 45 minutes coffee and cake farewell, were I told the happy news about my new workplace. My former boss concluded twice that she thought the job would fit me well and I got a outdoor plant, that weighs about 5 kilos as a farewell gift. Considering that it was a pain in the ass to get home when you don't use public transport I was pretty close to dumping it in the closest trash can but used the bike service to get it home. I will consider the 5 months pay that they paid as a nice farewell gift! My guess is that 1-2 of my colleagues will also be leaving within 1-2 years. I happened to arrive at the end of a meeting and one of my colleagues were clearly frustrated with the lack of progress and she saw the results of opposing the boss.
Fellow defense contractor here. On my contracts since 2010, even though I'm salaried, every hour that I work over 40 (has to be pre-authorized by customer) gets me paid at the regular rate. If I work over 40 without pre-auth, I don't get paid and both my employer and customer frown. If I work under 40, have to make it up with PTO hours. If out of PTO, then lube up to get bent over by HR.I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!
I saw the references to 40.0ers earlier in the thread. Admittedly I’ve only worked for one company coming out of the military, but I don’t keep a time sheet at all. How common is it for salaried employees to keep time sheets?
All the defense contractors I worked for pretended I had a salaried job but I was an hourly worker. If I didn't account for 40 hours I didn't get my full salary. Scummy but true.
Now, the timesheet had to be kept because the company billed by the hour, so they had to have the the documentation on the hours worked. Same when I worked as a salaried consultant for private industry (where I actually was salaried).
Same here. And it’s important to note that billing more than 40 hours never meant getting paid more than my standard salary. At least until I became a self employed contractor and billed myself out hourly.
Yes!! The worst of both worlds!
Are these companies subject to State labor laws? Because if so, that's illegal.
In my examples at least it was not "required" that I work more than 40 hours a week. The experience sticks with me because I grew up very blue collar and have never fully shifted away from the hourly rate mind set. To me working unpaid overtime meant my hourly rate was decreasing. I asked other salaried people about that and they all said "salaried means I'm paid to do this job and how many hours it takes doesn't matter". That answer bothered me because finishing the job in 30 hours wasn't allowed. I was able to flex my time all over the place at the first company so I'd have 6 hours one day and 9 two other days and no one cared. That was the company from the previous epic FU money story...
Over the years I've come to the conclusion that the different ways people relate time and money explains much of difference in how we relate to money. It's a lot harder to spend wildly or be super generous when it feels like I've literally trades "X" hours of my life for the money I'm spending/giving.
You're not wrong, but if you're classified as salary, and you work less than 40 hours, then it's generally illegal to dock your pay if someone works less. That's part of the justification for not requiring overtime pay for working more than 40 hours.
They don't dock your pay, they just make you use your PTO or vacation or sick time if you go under 40 which is legal from my reading. And being salary exempt (most white collar salary) means they don't have to pay you for overtime.
Perhaps more in the “polite ‘no thank you’” than the “epic FU”, but still feeling pretty Epic right now.I don't know how I missed this.
Business Clients: We need X, built in this way.
Yours truly: This is pretty expensive. You could consider alternative A, which gets you 80% of what you need in about 20% of the time, or alternative B, which gets you 95% of what you need in 40% of the time.
Business Client Director: No. We need X, built in this way.
Yours truly to my managers: Thats fine. Based on historical time and the best numbers and research we have, we can have this ready for you between August and November of 2021.
My managers: Yikes! They’ll never go for that. We will present that we can have it between March and April of 2021.
Yours truly: Based on history and everything that we know, that is unlikely to be true. Remember that there are alternatives that are realistic though less complete, in that timeline.
My managers to my director: We can have it done between March and April of 2021.
My managers and director to Business Client Director: We can have it done between March and April of 2021.
Business Client Director: We need it done by December 2020.
My managers to Business Client Director: We can revisit alternative A, which is feasible in that time frame, or alternative B, which can be done in just a few additional months.
Business Client Director: No. We need X, built in this way. By December 2020.
My Director: You will have it.
My Managers: Okay, we understand. You will have it.
My Managers to me: We will have to have it done by December 2020 in this way. Here is a plan that, if we execute perfectly an a way that we have never done before, we hope will get us done by December 2020.
Yours truly: With this plan, the delivery date calculates out to June of 2021? That’s an improvement, but…
My Managers: Well, you will work something out.
Yours truly, a day later: I have just applied for these other internal positions. I hope you will support my transfer.
This is my life. Our company got into an agreement with another company with milestones for four projects built into the calendar for 2-3 years.
Not a single milestone is/was achievable based on how long it takes to actually build things. Not a one. OH, and 3 of the projects had the same damn due date, and are competing for all the same equipment. Really.
I'm the program manager, who is always telling... everyone...here's the schedule but we won't meet it... lather, rinse, repeat for 4 projects for 3 years...
It was trying to meet those impossible deadlines as the lead engineer that drove me towards FIRE before I found MMM and had a word for it. There is nothing like sitting in a meeting listening to the supper optimistic promises being made and knowing it would fall to me to make it happen if it were possible. Oddly enough after I left that job I had a conversation with the ridiculously optimistic VP as friends and found the endless optimism really encouraging... It feels very different when it isn't my job to engineer their dreams into reality.
My managers and director to Business Client Director: We can have it done between March and April of 2021.
Business Client Director: We need it done by December 2020.
Now that I am retired, I can share this.
I was fed up with my job and had a "check-in" call in an open office, but with a remote manager. I put the call on conference where I loudly told them I hadn't done any work for the last several months, had no confidence in the ability of our products to make money, and they needed to tell me how that was going to happen. They offered me a written retention bonus to stay on for another year. I asked for changes in the bonus offer phrasing and more money. After a meeting with executive management and general counsel to negotiate the agreement and to talk about the direction of the company, they accepted and I got what I asked for.
To this day I don't know why they didn't just kick me to the curb, but other than actually saying it, "FU money" indeed. Absolute insanity and stupidity on my part and everyone else involved.
I spent most of my career at a defense contractor and then a year or so at a tech company at the end. It was amazingly feeling to no longer keep a time card. For the first time in my career I took lunch breaks and socialized with coworkers. It was an actual, enjoyable break rather than a constant watch the clock trade off thinking about how much later I would have to stay at the end of the day.Fellow defense contractor here. On my contracts since 2010, even though I'm salaried, every hour that I work over 40 (has to be pre-authorized by customer) gets me paid at the regular rate. If I work over 40 without pre-auth, I don't get paid and both my employer and customer frown. If I work under 40, have to make it up with PTO hours. If out of PTO, then lube up to get bent over by HR.I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!
I saw the references to 40.0ers earlier in the thread. Admittedly I’ve only worked for one company coming out of the military, but I don’t keep a time sheet at all. How common is it for salaried employees to keep time sheets?
All the defense contractors I worked for pretended I had a salaried job but I was an hourly worker. If I didn't account for 40 hours I didn't get my full salary. Scummy but true.
Now, the timesheet had to be kept because the company billed by the hour, so they had to have the the documentation on the hours worked. Same when I worked as a salaried consultant for private industry (where I actually was salaried).
Same here. And it’s important to note that billing more than 40 hours never meant getting paid more than my standard salary. At least until I became a self employed contractor and billed myself out hourly.
Yes!! The worst of both worlds!
Are these companies subject to State labor laws? Because if so, that's illegal.
In my examples at least it was not "required" that I work more than 40 hours a week. The experience sticks with me because I grew up very blue collar and have never fully shifted away from the hourly rate mind set. To me working unpaid overtime meant my hourly rate was decreasing. I asked other salaried people about that and they all said "salaried means I'm paid to do this job and how many hours it takes doesn't matter". That answer bothered me because finishing the job in 30 hours wasn't allowed. I was able to flex my time all over the place at the first company so I'd have 6 hours one day and 9 two other days and no one cared. That was the company from the previous epic FU money story...
Over the years I've come to the conclusion that the different ways people relate time and money explains much of difference in how we relate to money. It's a lot harder to spend wildly or be super generous when it feels like I've literally trades "X" hours of my life for the money I'm spending/giving.
You're not wrong, but if you're classified as salary, and you work less than 40 hours, then it's generally illegal to dock your pay if someone works less. That's part of the justification for not requiring overtime pay for working more than 40 hours.
They don't dock your pay, they just make you use your PTO or vacation or sick time if you go under 40 which is legal from my reading. And being salary exempt (most white collar salary) means they don't have to pay you for overtime.
Now that I am retired, I can share this.This sounds a lot like a scene from Office Space!
I was fed up with my job and had a "check-in" call in an open office, but with a remote manager. I put the call on conference where I loudly told them I hadn't done any work for the last several months, had no confidence in the ability of our products to make money, and they needed to tell me how that was going to happen. They offered me a written retention bonus to stay on for another year. I asked for changes in the bonus offer phrasing and more money. After a meeting with executive management and general counsel to negotiate the agreement and to talk about the direction of the company, they accepted and I got what I asked for.
To this day I don't know why they didn't just kick me to the curb, but other than actually saying it, "FU money" indeed. Absolute insanity and stupidity on my part and everyone else involved.
This sounds a lot like a scene from Office Space!
Take the time to truly THANK your boss for what he does for you and your team. They deserve it.Yeah, thank him. Such people get never praised enough.
Plus, you might have a ready-made job waiting for you wherever they end up. :)
I try to explain to younger folks that they are only one sociopath away from being sick to death of their job and burnt out their career, so get that FU money lined up asap.
Actually the worth is negligible on an emotional level, that's just the way our brains are wired as a "social animal". The mentioned flower is not a bribe because it is seen as just normal social behavior (and btw. that may be true for the rich giver in the fund case) like shaking hands.If he is worth billions would not the cost of the conference/holiday equal what it cost for an ordinary person to invite their friends for a party or dinner if you compare incomes and costs?
But that isn't the measure of the potential to bribe. Even if a gift is insignificant to give, if it is significant for the recipient then it might be enough to influence a decision. Looking like a bribe, or close to a bribe, or possibly a bribe is a problem in itself.
I really enjoyed reading @Plina ‘s story!In Germany since this year it's mandatory if you risk (work longer hours) getting under minimum wage.
I saw the references to 40.0ers earlier in the thread. Admittedly I’ve only worked for one company coming out of the military, but I don’t keep a time sheet at all. How common is it for salaried employees to keep time sheets?
It's only been in the last year that I've started to think of deadlines more as "promise rings" than marriage. I don't know any actual stats but it seems like at least 80% of them are missed across a good few companies and their vendors in my experience.Back at professional school I learned that 90% if IT projects fail either in time or money, often both.
This is also the George Costanza working model. Whatever you think is the right thing to do....do the opposite.This sounds a lot like a scene from Office Space!
There is so much power in doing crazy stuff that most people would never think of doing. Maybe I'll get bitten someday, but every time I think I've just gone too far... I get accommodated.
This is also the George Costanza working model. Whatever you think is the right thing to do....do the opposite.
I'm always working on that penske file.
I loudly told them I hadn't done any work for the last several months... I asked for changes in the bonus offer phrasing and more money. ... I got what I asked for.I am not an HR professional, but none of this makes any sense to me haha. So you did nothing for months? I never understand how people can just do nothing. You couldn't ask any bosses for a task? Weird, and I really can't understand why you would ever admit this to someone in the company, much less the bosses. But hey it worked so what do I know?! I can't imagine a scenario where it makes sense to pay a slacker more rather than immediately fire them.
I loudly told them I hadn't done any work for the last several months... I asked for changes in the bonus offer phrasing and more money. ... I got what I asked for.I am not an HR professional, but none of this makes any sense to me haha. So you did nothing for months? I never understand how people can just do nothing. You couldn't ask any bosses for a task? Weird, and I really can't understand why you would ever admit this to someone in the company, much less the bosses. But hey it worked so what do I know?! I can't imagine a scenario where it makes sense to pay a slacker more rather than immediately fire them.
Maybe it's "the Bobs" from office space where you just need more motivation? Bizarre
Good Riddance!
I ended up quitting before they could fire me (for better working conditions, pay and vacation) in a different department down the hall. :) But before I did I fired back. I made it very clear to government management and corporate management what was going on. Not to save my job, but to protect them from the harm he would cause if left unchecked. It took about 8 months but that sociopath was escorted out of the building by security and never allowed back. My former coworkers made a point of dropping by to share the news. :)
I loudly told them I hadn't done any work for the last several months... I asked for changes in the bonus offer phrasing and more money. ... I got what I asked for.I am not an HR professional, but none of this makes any sense to me haha. So you did nothing for months? I never understand how people can just do nothing. You couldn't ask any bosses for a task? Weird, and I really can't understand why you would ever admit this to someone in the company, much less the bosses. But hey it worked so what do I know?! I can't imagine a scenario where it makes sense to pay a slacker more rather than immediately fire them.
Maybe it's "the Bobs" from office space where you just need more motivation? Bizarre
This is sort of the opposite of what happened to a friend of mine. She got laid off from a big government contractor, which is how we found her and hired her.I loudly told them I hadn't done any work for the last several months... I asked for changes in the bonus offer phrasing and more money. ... I got what I asked for.I am not an HR professional, but none of this makes any sense to me haha. So you did nothing for months? I never understand how people can just do nothing. You couldn't ask any bosses for a task? Weird, and I really can't understand why you would ever admit this to someone in the company, much less the bosses. But hey it worked so what do I know?! I can't imagine a scenario where it makes sense to pay a slacker more rather than immediately fire them.
Maybe it's "the Bobs" from office space where you just need more motivation? Bizarre
It's actually happened multiple times in my career. My second job I had a boss that decided how long tasks were going to take and told the stakeholders this timeline. If I finished early and asked for more work, none would be forthcoming until the end of his estimate.
For this latest one though, I got into that dilbert situation where I didn't really have any daily responsibilities and was supposed to be doing vague architecture stuff. The company was in extreme turmoil, churning through CEOs and upper management, and my boss had something like 40 direct reports and was remote besides. I did work for a while, but basically the work was just ignored as priorities got wiped from the map repeatedly and daily 20 person design meetings were made to "align" people which just turned into a game of politics with a VP there. So, I just slipped through the cracks and probably could have continued to do so for some time.
It is uniquely demotivating to feel your work doesn't matter and then proving it directly. I should have moved on instead of negotiating, but I was able to leverage the bonus into a big raise at a new company as soon as the retention period expired.
@joleran @SwordGuy interesting cases...I guess I've been lucky with my bosses! I have to think if there was something massively wrong I wouldn't hesitate to escalate it to the next level. To tie it to FU money, I'd think of it like "I'm going to make sure the upper level people know the truth" rather than not be able to contribute work.
I'm a very efficient worker. Not saying I'm an amazing worker, I just move through the computer efficiently and make processes for my regular work that let me get through them quicker than others would. I've had a few jobs where when I run out of things to do and ask for more tasks, they either don't have anything for me (for various reasons including being overstaffed or someone refusing to give up an ounce of knowledge) or they dredge up some obscure task that isn't actually needed or even wanted and my time ends up wasted anyway. When you add that onto being praised for being such a good employee that gets so much done, there's just not much incentive to ask for more. At my last job I got to where there were days where I did nothing but would have been promoted to the second highest level of my department if I'd stayed.I loudly told them I hadn't done any work for the last several months... I asked for changes in the bonus offer phrasing and more money. ... I got what I asked for.I am not an HR professional, but none of this makes any sense to me haha. So you did nothing for months? I never understand how people can just do nothing. You couldn't ask any bosses for a task? Weird, and I really can't understand why you would ever admit this to someone in the company, much less the bosses. But hey it worked so what do I know?! I can't imagine a scenario where it makes sense to pay a slacker more rather than immediately fire them.
Maybe it's "the Bobs" from office space where you just need more motivation? Bizarre
There's an amazing spectrum of jobs and companies -- where you can be hair-on-fire-busy for 60+ hours a week.... Or you can be struggling to fill the time from 9-5 due to boredom. I've experienced both. Extremes at both ends suck, for their own reasons.
I loudly told them I hadn't done any work for the last several months... I asked for changes in the bonus offer phrasing and more money. ... I got what I asked for.I am not an HR professional, but none of this makes any sense to me haha. So you did nothing for months? I never understand how people can just do nothing. You couldn't ask any bosses for a task? Weird, and I really can't understand why you would ever admit this to someone in the company, much less the bosses. But hey it worked so what do I know?! I can't imagine a scenario where it makes sense to pay a slacker more rather than immediately fire them.
Maybe it's "the Bobs" from office space where you just need more motivation? Bizarre
There's also the unfortunate job that expects you to be there 60 hours per week, even if you have nothing to do. The best IMO is where you're meaningfully busy for 40 hiurs, and there's no expectation to spend more time than that at work
Good for her! I would have done the same.
Actually one summer I had to take a day or 2 unpaid off every week for 2 months to care for an ailing family member, and my boss let me and worked around my absences. I stayed at that job 7 years, it was generally a good place to work until it was bought out by a private equity firm and went completely bonkers.
An observation: reading these stories, it seems quite common for the reaction of a boss or colleague to be, did you win the lottery? as if that would be the only logical explanation for quitting a job, or at least the first one that comes to mind. As if it is utterly unimaginable to the ordinary person that someone could simply have saved money and invested it. Sad commentary on the current state of the world. This is why we need to teach basic financial literacy in schools. [/ soapbox]
They even lobbied google to hide them when I tried to have a look!An observation: reading these stories, it seems quite common for the reaction of a boss or colleague to be, did you win the lottery? as if that would be the only logical explanation for quitting a job, or at least the first one that comes to mind. As if it is utterly unimaginable to the ordinary person that someone could simply have saved money and invested it. Sad commentary on the current state of the world. This is why we need to teach basic financial literacy in schools. [/ soapbox]
The problem is that any school financial literacy course would feature a curriculum written by the Foundation for Teaching America about Finance, a shell non-profit owned and operated by Wells Fargo and PayDay Loan Companies.
An observation: reading these stories, it seems quite common for the reaction of a boss or colleague to be, did you win the lottery? as if that would be the only logical explanation for quitting a job, or at least the first one that comes to mind. As if it is utterly unimaginable to the ordinary person that someone could simply have saved money and invested it. Sad commentary on the current state of the world. This is why we need to teach basic financial literacy in schools. [/ soapbox]
As a former restaurant worker and shopper, I love this story, I never gave bad reviews as a shopper except once and it was nearly as scathing as it could have been. Restaurant work is very hard and you can’t be perfect and walking on eggshells all the time with each customer.
Makes me think I can retire normally at work or just up and quit if they push me too hard, but likely I will just calmly retire with two weeks notice.
So strange to think of a workplace with "punishments."
So strange to think of a workplace with "punishments."
There are a lot of bullies and people with (often well deserved) insecurities that find their way into middle management.So strange to think of a workplace with "punishments."
It's weird to explicitly dole out "punishments" to workers, and it is especially strange to think that way when dealing with a good employee in a field where there is chronic shortages and high employee turnover. My other half had a similar thing happen where a restaurant manager demoted a server to busboy for a day to "teach a lesson" for a one time very minor thing . . . other half just quit on the spot, so then they were short handed for at least the next week. Other half then walked down the street and was hired by the competing place on the spot. Didn't even miss a shift.
^Yeah, it's weird how much many people will put up with in terms of overwork and abusive management.
I just quit a part of my job because I was hating it. The way I phrased it to my boss was "I gave this new role a try, but it's just not a good fit for me, so I'm going to go back to doing my old job. Please transition this to someone else over the next two weeks."
Could the boss have fired me? Sure. Did it happen? Nope. In fact, pretty much everyone at work who hears the news says "Good for you!" I think my stock went up at the company more than it went down, honestly.
Some years ago (10?) DW worked for a company A but had ambivalent feelings about it. The pay was so so, and the commute was a killer. On the upside, it had decent healthcare and 401(k) benefits. All things considered, she started looking for a new job and found what appeared to be a perfect fit and Company B, which would be only a 10 minute drive (compared to the 1.5 hours each way with company a). Not only with the commute significantly improve, but the pay was actually higher at Company B. No brainer, right? First day at work, right away, she can tell this is not what she signed up for. The manager is yelling at people, everyone seems scared, and there is no training. Red flags left and right. She tries to stick it out for a couple of days, but quickly realizes this is clearly not where she needs to be. She called me in tears, says she cannot do this, it is not what she signed up for, etc. and basically left the office, ostensibly to “check the mail” (this was one of the new job duties) and never returned. HR calls, wants to know what happened, and DW explains verbal abuse, the lack of training, etc. company b HR is very understanding And asks if there is anything they can do to bring her back - my gut says they were not surprised at anything they heard, which is probably why there was a vacancy in the first place. She says thanks but no thanks.That is a great story. Three cheers for your awesome SO, and for you for supporting.
Same day, calls up her former boss (don’t burn those bridges if you don’t have to) from company a and negotiates a return at a higher salary and new job title. She had previously attempted to negotiate a wage increase but was told that it was impossible. After she left, however, magically there was money now available in the budget. Turns out, they were more than happy to have her back and were dreading the process of replacing her. She was also able to negotiate a couple of weeks delayed start for what we now refer to as her “unemployment vacation.” She needed the time to decompress from the company b trauma (and thanks to not living paycheck to paycheck, it was no big deal to us).
To this day, we still have a chuckle every once in a while about “going to check the mail.” I told her, just imagine the other people in that office. You are an urban legend for sure.
P.S. she still works for company a, but in the last 10 years has switched roles/departments 3 times, each with a significant pay increase. We relocated much closer, cutting commute time by 2/3, and she was able to negotiate 2 days/wk WFH in an office culture where WFH is virtually unheard of (at least pre-COVID). Meanwhile, almost everyone she works with just stays in the same position and never really gets more than COLA pay increases. Squeaky wheel, people! But more to the point of this thread, FU money gave us options. But for the FUM, some of those risks would likely been but daydreams. Cheers, mustachians!
As a former restaurant worker and shopper, I love this story, I never gave bad reviews as a shopper except once and it was nearly as scathing as it could have been. Restaurant work is very hard and you can’t be perfect and walking on eggshells all the time with each customer.
Makes me think I can retire normally at work or just up and quit if they push me too hard, but likely I will just calmly retire with two weeks notice.
I think of two weeks notice as a courtesy. It's nice to give your boss a little time to plan before you go. But if they don't respect you, fuck em.
Hahaha... love itAs a former restaurant worker and shopper, I love this story, I never gave bad reviews as a shopper except once and it was nearly as scathing as it could have been. Restaurant work is very hard and you can’t be perfect and walking on eggshells all the time with each customer.
Makes me think I can retire normally at work or just up and quit if they push me too hard, but likely I will just calmly retire with two weeks notice.
I think of two weeks notice as a courtesy. It's nice to give your boss a little time to plan before you go. But if they don't respect you, fuck em.
Not exactly an FU Money story, but I watched an FU story unfold several years ago at a former work-place that is related to this.
A very well respected, very senior Chief Engineer at my old company was paramount to literally every technical decision that was made at the company. If any important changes were to be made, tweaks to various pieces of hardware, changes in software, etc., it was essentially required to go talk to this person and get his buy-in before going into a formal decision making meeting (a standard meeting with mostly manager-types and contractors). As you could imagine, this person was completely overloaded and often worked long hours to make sure he gave each person adequate time to learn about their recommended change. Despite a great positive attitude and sharp mind, he was overworked, underpaid, and didn't feel like he was getting the respect he deserved as having such of an important position in the company.
One day, on a Friday, I went to talk to him at ~6pm (the only time I could find a 15 minute period free on his schedule) about an upcoming hardware change-project I was leading. In typical fashion, he listened to my overview of the project and gave excellent feedback and advice. At the end of our discussion, when I asked him if he would support me during a formal change meeting on Monday (I had just set up the meeting and sent out invitations), he said "I definitely support this change, but I just sent in my notice to leave 20 minutes ago. I won't be with the company on Monday, so I won't have that authority anymore. But it's been great to work with you, BuffaloStache". He didn't say anything else about it, smiled, and quickly hurried off to his next meeting.
I was dumbfounded to say the least, but I incorporated all of the changes/pieces of advice that we discussed and planned to push ahead. When Monday came around, I went into the conference room and set-up the Teleconference software as was customary for these types of meetings. After logging in, I was shocked to see the Chief Engineer's name on the attendee list! When I asked about it, he said "I work for [oversight contractor company name] now, and look forward to the presentation". The collective jaws of every manager in the room fell to the floor. After the meeting, he called me to tell me that he switched jobs and was getting paid more to work mostly remotely and enjoy a lot greater flexibility. He said that the company often signed him up for incredibly difficult tasks without giving him any time to think about it, so he figured he'd do the same with his departure. That guy is a corporate hero to me.
TL;DR- Vitally important Chief Engineer quit on a Friday afternoon with absolutely no advanced notice, and then started on Monday at a contractor company essentially overseeing his previous work for higher pay and mostly remote.
I love thisAs a former restaurant worker and shopper, I love this story, I never gave bad reviews as a shopper except once and it was nearly as scathing as it could have been. Restaurant work is very hard and you can’t be perfect and walking on eggshells all the time with each customer.
Makes me think I can retire normally at work or just up and quit if they push me too hard, but likely I will just calmly retire with two weeks notice.
I think of two weeks notice as a courtesy. It's nice to give your boss a little time to plan before you go. But if they don't respect you, fuck em.
Not exactly an FU Money story, but I watched an FU story unfold several years ago at a former work-place that is related to this.
A very well respected, very senior Chief Engineer at my old company was paramount to literally every technical decision that was made at the company. If any important changes were to be made, tweaks to various pieces of hardware, changes in software, etc., it was essentially required to go talk to this person and get his buy-in before going into a formal decision making meeting (a standard meeting with mostly manager-types and contractors). As you could imagine, this person was completely overloaded and often worked long hours to make sure he gave each person adequate time to learn about their recommended change. Despite a great positive attitude and sharp mind, he was overworked, underpaid, and didn't feel like he was getting the respect he deserved as having such of an important position in the company.
One day, on a Friday, I went to talk to him at ~6pm (the only time I could find a 15 minute period free on his schedule) about an upcoming hardware change-project I was leading. In typical fashion, he listened to my overview of the project and gave excellent feedback and advice. At the end of our discussion, when I asked him if he would support me during a formal change meeting on Monday (I had just set up the meeting and sent out invitations), he said "I definitely support this change, but I just sent in my notice to leave 20 minutes ago. I won't be with the company on Monday, so I won't have that authority anymore. But it's been great to work with you, BuffaloStache". He didn't say anything else about it, smiled, and quickly hurried off to his next meeting.
I was dumbfounded to say the least, but I incorporated all of the changes/pieces of advice that we discussed and planned to push ahead. When Monday came around, I went into the conference room and set-up the Teleconference software as was customary for these types of meetings. After logging in, I was shocked to see the Chief Engineer's name on the attendee list! When I asked about it, he said "I work for [oversight contractor company name] now, and look forward to the presentation". The collective jaws of every manager in the room fell to the floor. After the meeting, he called me to tell me that he switched jobs and was getting paid more to work mostly remotely and enjoy a lot greater flexibility. He said that the company often signed him up for incredibly difficult tasks without giving him any time to think about it, so he figured he'd do the same with his departure. That guy is a corporate hero to me.
TL;DR- Vitally important Chief Engineer quit on a Friday afternoon with absolutely no advanced notice, and then started on Monday at a contractor company essentially overseeing his previous work for higher pay and mostly remote.
I was working in IT for a company and my workload had been dropping precipitously for the past few months. Basically me and my team had automated our outsourced most of our tasks and most of my coworkers could see what was happening and were leaving left and right. Over a year we went from 15 to about 7 people on staff due to attrition and none of the positions were backfilled because there was so much less work to do. While this was going on I negotiated basically unlimited unpaid time off but when I asked to go to 3 days a week, HR said sorry we can't do that.
At the same time, I found MMM about 8 years ago and had saved a ton of money. Like 70% of my FIRE number. Also, over the past 3 years I had been slowly growing a side business teaching whitewater kayaking on nights and weekends. So this year, when quarantine started to get lifted (our state called it "Safer at home and in the vast outdoors") they included guidelines for outdoor guides. Within 4 days I had 15 calls for full day lessons and the calls kept coming. With that much of a backlog, I decided to give notice at the IT job two weeks later. In order to help with the transition I agreed to a 1 month notice period and to be available for consulting for a couple days in case something came up.
On my last day, it became clear that my manager thought that I was just going to consulting in order to try to get the 3 days a week thing I wanted before and he wanted to figure out how to schedule my 3 days per week indefinitely. I don't remember the exact words I used in a one on one meeting with him that day but it was something along the lines of "Sorry man, too little too late. I'll help with the transition but I don't need the money, I'm out."
PS: Kayak lesson demand was insane and I was just going by the seat of my pants trying to keep up and accepting some requests that I probably shouldn't have or should have been combined together. I made close to $20k this year during an abridged (due to covid) 4-month teaching season. I'm taking the winter to make some changes to make it more repeatable and lucrative but getting $40k in 6 months of work won't be crazy for next year. Sure it's not my IT salary but I don't care. I like this more and I really don't need the money. And all my gear is a business expense now haha.
I was working in IT for a company and my workload had been dropping precipitously for the past few months. Basically me and my team had automated our outsourced most of our tasks and most of my coworkers could see what was happening and were leaving left and right. Over a year we went from 15 to about 7 people on staff due to attrition and none of the positions were backfilled because there was so much less work to do. While this was going on I negotiated basically unlimited unpaid time off but when I asked to go to 3 days a week, HR said sorry we can't do that.
At the same time, I found MMM about 8 years ago and had saved a ton of money. Like 70% of my FIRE number. Also, over the past 3 years I had been slowly growing a side business teaching whitewater kayaking on nights and weekends. So this year, when quarantine started to get lifted (our state called it "Safer at home and in the vast outdoors") they included guidelines for outdoor guides. Within 4 days I had 15 calls for full day lessons and the calls kept coming. With that much of a backlog, I decided to give notice at the IT job two weeks later. In order to help with the transition I agreed to a 1 month notice period and to be available for consulting for a couple days in case something came up.
On my last day, it became clear that my manager thought that I was just going to consulting in order to try to get the 3 days a week thing I wanted before and he wanted to figure out how to schedule my 3 days per week indefinitely. I don't remember the exact words I used in a one on one meeting with him that day but it was something along the lines of "Sorry man, too little too late. I'll help with the transition but I don't need the money, I'm out."
PS: Kayak lesson demand was insane and I was just going by the seat of my pants trying to keep up and accepting some requests that I probably shouldn't have or should have been combined together. I made close to $20k this year during an abridged (due to covid) 4-month teaching season. I'm taking the winter to make some changes to make it more repeatable and lucrative but getting $40k in 6 months of work won't be crazy for next year. Sure it's not my IT salary but I don't care. I like this more and I really don't need the money. And all my gear is a business expense now haha.
My new hero.
I relocated across the country and started a new job right as COVID was hitting. Unfortunately I missed a lot of red flags early-on: my manger wouldn't look me in the eyes during the interview and she was replacing 2 of her 3 reports after she joined the company a couple months earlier. The offer came as the state shut down, so I jumped at it.
What followed was 6 months of toxicity. Other than some odds-and-ends she asked me to handle, we didn't talk responsibilities or expectations until I scheduled my own one-on-one after the first month. She began working from home, and called me insubordinate for problem solving with the on-site managers and "going behind her back". She openly discussed firing the "useless" floor technicians because they didn't complete tasks that they were never assigned. I was once called brainless on a managerial email chain after I followed her lead on something and she flip-flopped her stance.
Without pinching back the budget, I have about 17 months of cash on-hand (looking to buy a house). I told her Monday that I was leaving, politely said I would do happier in another environment, and the conversation ended cordially. The next day, I get on a conference call and see it's just my boss and co-worker. Somehow forgetting that this is not a private call, she begins belittling me to her other report. My work is sloppy, she's tried repeatedly to get me to fix it but I won't listen, I might not get replaced because "what does he even do here??". The other managers and supervisors begin joining the call and overhear this. Reality set-in when she said "Is anyone else on here yet? I better check before I say anything else....oh......"
I called her the next day to say that I heard everything that was discussed. I explained that she's entitled to those opinions of me, that I haven't been enthusiastic about my work either, but I would prefer that she privately give that feedback to me. Her response was "I'm sorry you overheard it, but I meant every word". I explained that I have been respectful of her during my exit interview and when the other managers asked why I was leaving. Her response was "Thank for for taking the high road, but I can't do the same while trying to correct your mistakes".
The next day I schedule a meeting with our facility's HR, share the highlights of my time with the company, and receive her contact information to provide to potential employers. Apparently everyone has seen this behavior from the fringes, but this is the first time someone put forward a formal complaint. She encouraged me to word all of this in an email to her manager and the HR rep that conducted my exit interview. Writing that email was the happiest 30 minutes of my employment.
At 2pm I sent her an email: "I've decided that today is my last day of employment. My laptop and keys are on my desk. I have already let HR know, and you can talk to them if you have any questions".
Another badass in the house!I relocated across the country and started a new job right as COVID was hitting. Unfortunately I missed a lot of red flags early-on: my manger wouldn't look me in the eyes during the interview and she was replacing 2 of her 3 reports after she joined the company a couple months earlier. The offer came as the state shut down, so I jumped at it.
What followed was 6 months of toxicity. Other than some odds-and-ends she asked me to handle, we didn't talk responsibilities or expectations until I scheduled my own one-on-one after the first month. She began working from home, and called me insubordinate for problem solving with the on-site managers and "going behind her back". She openly discussed firing the "useless" floor technicians because they didn't complete tasks that they were never assigned. I was once called brainless on a managerial email chain after I followed her lead on something and she flip-flopped her stance.
Without pinching back the budget, I have about 17 months of cash on-hand (looking to buy a house). I told her Monday that I was leaving, politely said I would do happier in another environment, and the conversation ended cordially. The next day, I get on a conference call and see it's just my boss and co-worker. Somehow forgetting that this is not a private call, she begins belittling me to her other report. My work is sloppy, she's tried repeatedly to get me to fix it but I won't listen, I might not get replaced because "what does he even do here??". The other managers and supervisors begin joining the call and overhear this. Reality set-in when she said "Is anyone else on here yet? I better check before I say anything else....oh......"
I called her the next day to say that I heard everything that was discussed. I explained that she's entitled to those opinions of me, that I haven't been enthusiastic about my work either, but I would prefer that she privately give that feedback to me. Her response was "I'm sorry you overheard it, but I meant every word". I explained that I have been respectful of her during my exit interview and when the other managers asked why I was leaving. Her response was "Thank for for taking the high road, but I can't do the same while trying to correct your mistakes".
The next day I schedule a meeting with our facility's HR, share the highlights of my time with the company, and receive her contact information to provide to potential employers. Apparently everyone has seen this behavior from the fringes, but this is the first time someone put forward a formal complaint. She encouraged me to word all of this in an email to her manager and the HR rep that conducted my exit interview. Writing that email was the happiest 30 minutes of my employment.
At 2pm I sent her an email: "I've decided that today is my last day of employment. My laptop and keys are on my desk. I have already let HR know, and you can talk to them if you have any questions".
I love that this is your first post here. Good for you!
At 2pm I sent her an email: "I've decided that today is my last day of employment. My laptop and keys are on my desk. I have already let HR know, and you can talk to them if you have any questions".
Thanks everybody. This blog/forum has changed my savings rate from 6% to 65% in the last three years. That job would have consumed me you all didn't preach this alternative.
It has just started. It takes a long time to make an epic. So far it's only a ballad at most.We are here to encourage one another. Please don't minimize someone else's accomplishments. There is no nice reason for this.
It has just started. It takes a long time to make an epic. So far it's only a ballad at most.We are here to encourage one another. Please don't minimize someone else's accomplishments. There is no nice reason for this.
It has just started. It takes a long time to make an epic. So far it's only a ballad at most.We are here to encourage one another. Please don't minimize someone else's accomplishments. There is no nice reason for this.
I feel so old for still knowing the original meaning of epic... (hint: It is an really really long piece of literature, generally poem. And for the old greeks it was all of "story poems". Like the Gilgamesh Epic.)
I feel so old for still knowing the original meaning of epic... (hint: It is an really really long piece of literature, generally poem. And for the old greeks it was all of "story poems". Like the Gilgamesh Epic.)Language evolves. The word in question has long since acquired additional shades of meaning. There's a grammar thread where your audience might be more receptive, but on this thread, you just sound pedantic.
I still think he was. Let's ask.I feel so old for still knowing the original meaning of epic... (hint: It is an really really long piece of literature, generally poem. And for the old greeks it was all of "story poems". Like the Gilgamesh Epic.)Language evolves. The word in question has long since acquired additional shades of meaning. There's a grammar thread where your audience might be more receptive, but on this thread, you just sound pedantic.
@SwordGuy, as you can see, LennStar clearly wasn't joking.
Aww, @SwordGuy, you're such a mensch!I still think he was. Let's ask.I feel so old for still knowing the original meaning of epic... (hint: It is an really really long piece of literature, generally poem. And for the old greeks it was all of "story poems". Like the Gilgamesh Epic.)Language evolves. The word in question has long since acquired additional shades of meaning. There's a grammar thread where your audience might be more receptive, but on this thread, you just sound pedantic.
@SwordGuy, as you can see, LennStar clearly wasn't joking.
@LennStar , were you joking with word play on word meanings or not?
I still think he was. Let's ask.I feel so old for still knowing the original meaning of epic... (hint: It is an really really long piece of literature, generally poem. And for the old greeks it was all of "story poems". Like the Gilgamesh Epic.)Language evolves. The word in question has long since acquired additional shades of meaning. There's a grammar thread where your audience might be more receptive, but on this thread, you just sound pedantic.
@SwordGuy, as you can see, LennStar clearly wasn't joking.
@LennStar , were you joking with word play on word meanings or not?
I still think he was. Let's ask.I feel so old for still knowing the original meaning of epic... (hint: It is an really really long piece of literature, generally poem. And for the old greeks it was all of "story poems". Like the Gilgamesh Epic.)Language evolves. The word in question has long since acquired additional shades of meaning. There's a grammar thread where your audience might be more receptive, but on this thread, you just sound pedantic.
@SwordGuy, as you can see, LennStar clearly wasn't joking.
@LennStar , were you joking with word play on word meanings or not?
It was supposed to be a funny remark on (changing) words, yes.
The worst part is you bad guys have even infected German, I have heard people using "episch" the same way as in Englisch.
In 50 years kids will think the Gilgamesh Epos is a big mountain in the Himalajas or something like that... *sigh*
I still think he was. Let's ask.I feel so old for still knowing the original meaning of epic... (hint: It is an really really long piece of literature, generally poem. And for the old greeks it was all of "story poems". Like the Gilgamesh Epic.)Language evolves. The word in question has long since acquired additional shades of meaning. There's a grammar thread where your audience might be more receptive, but on this thread, you just sound pedantic.
@SwordGuy, as you can see, LennStar clearly wasn't joking.
@LennStar , were you joking with word play on word meanings or not?
It was supposed to be a funny remark on (changing) words, yes.
The worst part is you bad guys have even infected German, I have heard people using "episch" the same way as in Englisch.
In 50 years kids will think the Gilgamesh Epos is a big mountain in the Himalajas or something like that... *sigh*
I feel so old for still knowing the original meaning of epic... (hint: It is an really really long piece of literature, generally poem. And for the old greeks it was all of "story poems". Like the Gilgamesh Epic.)To keep the pedantic tone of the thread alive, I would note that the Epic of Gilgamesh is Sumerian, not Greek.
Roughly that. Gilgamesh is afaik the oldest one that has the name in it (and one of the best known).I feel so old for still knowing the original meaning of epic... (hint: It is an really really long piece of literature, generally poem. And for the old greeks it was all of "story poems". Like the Gilgamesh Epic.)To keep the pedantic tone of the thread alive, I would note that the Epic of Gilgamesh is Sumerian, not Greek.
I realize what may have been meant was "story poems" = Greek , example from another culture- Gilgamesh.
Very probably in conjunction with taxes (fees, protection by "king", assessment .....etc etc..)Roughly that. Gilgamesh is afaik the oldest one that has the name in it (and one of the best known).I feel so old for still knowing the original meaning of epic... (hint: It is an really really long piece of literature, generally poem. And for the old greeks it was all of "story poems". Like the Gilgamesh Epic.)To keep the pedantic tone of the thread alive, I would note that the Epic of Gilgamesh is Sumerian, not Greek.
I realize what may have been meant was "story poems" = Greek , example from another culture- Gilgamesh.
And btw. the oldest written records at all we have are about debt forgiveness. Just in case you thought debt was a modern problem ;)
Not directly at least. Of course taxes existed (albeit not in the form we think of today) and were one expense you could not not do.Very probably in conjunction with taxes (fees, protection by "king", assessment .....etc etc..)Roughly that. Gilgamesh is afaik the oldest one that has the name in it (and one of the best known).I feel so old for still knowing the original meaning of epic... (hint: It is an really really long piece of literature, generally poem. And for the old greeks it was all of "story poems". Like the Gilgamesh Epic.)To keep the pedantic tone of the thread alive, I would note that the Epic of Gilgamesh is Sumerian, not Greek.
I realize what may have been meant was "story poems" = Greek , example from another culture- Gilgamesh.
And btw. the oldest written records at all we have are about debt forgiveness. Just in case you thought debt was a modern problem ;)
Doesn't money just represent a claim on future goods, services, resources? So one could say that all money is, is a score-card on who owes who -- a.k.a. money = (someone else's) debt.That is what antropologists say for a century, who have studied how it was over the millenia.
Was super excited to see new posts in this thread about Epic FU stories .... to find a whole string of OT /0\Turn more consumer suckas into MMM folks and you might find more epic FU stories here.
It may not be traditional "FU" @blurkraken22 but still a cool story. More "Free U" than "F**k U"!
About 8-9 years ago I was working a pretty miserable job with a crappy boss. I was in debt (car loan, 2 maxed CCs, 2 student loans) and living paycheck to paycheck. I wasn't making a lot of money, but more than I felt I could make somewhere else, so I was trapped. Then a couple things clicked (meeting my frugal girlfriend was the main catalyst). Over the course of a year I paid off all debts except one of the student loans and started saving 50% of my net. I only had a couple months savings, but realizing I could get a job making half what I was currently suddenly put me into FU territory. I made a list of demands for my boss, none of which were met, which is what I expected (he was the kind of guy that viewed everyone as an easily replaceable cog). So I told him I was starting to job search, knowing what would happen. Next day I'm handed a layoff notice (due to 'internal restructuring'). I knew 1) he would never let someone stay that was looking around, and 2) that he would have to lay me off (I'd been a flawless employee for 5 years, it would take too much time to build up a fireable case). This made me qualify for unemployment, which at the time paid 50% of your previous 12 months wages. Since that's what I'd been living on for a year, it had zero effect on my budget. 5 highly enjoyable and stress-free months later I landed one of the best jobs I've ever had, making 30% more than I was previously.That boss of yours was doing you a solid and he knew it. I hoped you called him up and thanked him.
Not epic 'take this job and shove it', but if I hadn't had the financial stability and confidence, I might still be there. FU money doesn't always have to be about your bank balance, either. If you're living on half your paycheck, that opens a lot of doors that people don't usually have. Most people can't afford to take a pay cut, which keeps them as trapped as debt or lack of savings does.
That boss of yours was doing you a solid and he knew it. I hoped you called him up and thanked him.
That boss of yours was doing you a solid and he knew it. I hoped you called him up and thanked him.
Nah, he really wasn't, it was just his fastest/only option. The reason I was so miserable at that job was because of him and his lack of ethics. He would tell the sales people to promise customers features our product didn't do, nor would ever do. Then when they bought and came to me to help them get it set up, and would ask about these features, I'd say 'no it doesn't do that'. He started getting mad at all the return requests and told me 'you have to string them along until the 30-day money back guarantee is past'. 'Umm, yea I'm not doing that'. That's when I decided I needed to figure out how to get out.
That boss of yours was doing you a solid and he knew it. I hoped you called him up and thanked him.
Nah, he really wasn't, it was just his fastest/only option. The reason I was so miserable at that job was because of him and his lack of ethics. He would tell the sales people to promise customers features our product didn't do, nor would ever do. Then when they bought and came to me to help them get it set up, and would ask about these features, I'd say 'no it doesn't do that'. He started getting mad at all the return requests and told me 'you have to string them along until the 30-day money back guarantee is past'. 'Umm, yea I'm not doing that'. That's when I decided I needed to figure out how to get out.
Sociopaths like that are the reason we can't trust businesses with public safety. It's why we need safety regulations and regulators who work for the public.
That boss of yours was doing you a solid and he knew it. I hoped you called him up and thanked him.
Nah, he really wasn't, it was just his fastest/only option. The reason I was so miserable at that job was because of him and his lack of ethics. He would tell the sales people to promise customers features our product didn't do, nor would ever do. Then when they bought and came to me to help them get it set up, and would ask about these features, I'd say 'no it doesn't do that'. He started getting mad at all the return requests and told me 'you have to string them along until the 30-day money back guarantee is past'. 'Umm, yea I'm not doing that'. That's when I decided I needed to figure out how to get out.
It would clog up the courts too much?That boss of yours was doing you a solid and he knew it. I hoped you called him up and thanked him.
Nah, he really wasn't, it was just his fastest/only option. The reason I was so miserable at that job was because of him and his lack of ethics. He would tell the sales people to promise customers features our product didn't do, nor would ever do. Then when they bought and came to me to help them get it set up, and would ask about these features, I'd say 'no it doesn't do that'. He started getting mad at all the return requests and told me 'you have to string them along until the 30-day money back guarantee is past'. 'Umm, yea I'm not doing that'. That's when I decided I needed to figure out how to get out.
I really don’t understand why this sort of behavior can’t be criminally prosecuted as fraud.
also the onus is on the employee to collect evidence and prove it. and whistleblowers don't get protected despite the law.It would clog up the courts too much?That boss of yours was doing you a solid and he knew it. I hoped you called him up and thanked him.
Nah, he really wasn't, it was just his fastest/only option. The reason I was so miserable at that job was because of him and his lack of ethics. He would tell the sales people to promise customers features our product didn't do, nor would ever do. Then when they bought and came to me to help them get it set up, and would ask about these features, I'd say 'no it doesn't do that'. He started getting mad at all the return requests and told me 'you have to string them along until the 30-day money back guarantee is past'. 'Umm, yea I'm not doing that'. That's when I decided I needed to figure out how to get out.
I really don’t understand why this sort of behavior can’t be criminally prosecuted as fraud.
Even whistleblower activity generally results in only civil remedies In cases like these. I’m suggesting that this is criminal behavior that should be prosecuted as theft or fraud. It would be in the interest of the cheated customers to pursue criminal charges.
Court capacity is a different (but clearly related) issue. That said, we seem to always have court capacity for low level criminal theft, but why don’t we create that capacity for large scale fraud, theft, and corruption? The answer will likely take us further off topic, so no need for answers. Consider it rhetorical.
Even whistleblower activity generally results in only civil remedies In cases like these. I’m suggesting that this is criminal behavior that should be prosecuted as theft or fraud. It would be in the interest of the cheated customers to pursue criminal charges.
Court capacity is a different (but clearly related) issue. That said, we seem to always have court capacity for low level criminal theft, but why don’t we create that capacity for large scale fraud, theft, and corruption? The answer will likely take us further off topic, so no need for answers. Consider it rhetorical.
That boss of yours was doing you a solid and he knew it. I hoped you called him up and thanked him.
Nah, he really wasn't, it was just his fastest/only option. The reason I was so miserable at that job was because of him and his lack of ethics. He would tell the sales people to promise customers features our product didn't do, nor would ever do. Then when they bought and came to me to help them get it set up, and would ask about these features, I'd say 'no it doesn't do that'. He started getting mad at all the return requests and told me 'you have to string them along until the 30-day money back guarantee is past'. 'Umm, yea I'm not doing that'. That's when I decided I needed to figure out how to get out.
That boss of yours was doing you a solid and he knew it. I hoped you called him up and thanked him.
Nah, he really wasn't, it was just his fastest/only option. The reason I was so miserable at that job was because of him and his lack of ethics. He would tell the sales people to promise customers features our product didn't do, nor would ever do. Then when they bought and came to me to help them get it set up, and would ask about these features, I'd say 'no it doesn't do that'. He started getting mad at all the return requests and told me 'you have to string them along until the 30-day money back guarantee is past'. 'Umm, yea I'm not doing that'. That's when I decided I needed to figure out how to get out.
Well that's ironic! He did what a good boss would offer to do for an employee they liked.
On the ehhiics side, I'm in the software industry (B2B) and that kind of overselling is common enough without being intentional. I'm glad you were able to make a stand and get out and I really hope that guy lost all his customers and then his job .
Any idea what he's doing now?That boss of yours was doing you a solid and he knew it. I hoped you called him up and thanked him.
Nah, he really wasn't, it was just his fastest/only option. The reason I was so miserable at that job was because of him and his lack of ethics. He would tell the sales people to promise customers features our product didn't do, nor would ever do. Then when they bought and came to me to help them get it set up, and would ask about these features, I'd say 'no it doesn't do that'. He started getting mad at all the return requests and told me 'you have to string them along until the 30-day money back guarantee is past'. 'Umm, yea I'm not doing that'. That's when I decided I needed to figure out how to get out.
Well that's ironic! He did what a good boss would offer to do for an employee they liked.
On the ehhiics side, I'm in the software industry (B2B) and that kind of overselling is common enough without being intentional. I'm glad you were able to make a stand and get out and I really hope that guy lost all his customers and then his job .
If was the owner, but yea, basically :-) It was a software company, and from what I heard, after I left all that shit got worse and not too long after that they went out of business. Double slap in the face to the owner I'm sure, because at some point while I was working there, when things were going well, he had a buyout offer that would have set him up for life, and he refused it because he had dollar signs in his eyes on where he could take the company. Couple lessons to anyone that starts a company: 1) the person that can start a successful company from the bottom isn't the same person that can take it to the next level. Don't be arrogant, and 2) if you get an offer that can make you FI, take it and just start another endeavor without the worries of needing to succeed and sustain your family.
Any idea what he's doing now?That boss of yours was doing you a solid and he knew it. I hoped you called him up and thanked him.
Nah, he really wasn't, it was just his fastest/only option. The reason I was so miserable at that job was because of him and his lack of ethics. He would tell the sales people to promise customers features our product didn't do, nor would ever do. Then when they bought and came to me to help them get it set up, and would ask about these features, I'd say 'no it doesn't do that'. He started getting mad at all the return requests and told me 'you have to string them along until the 30-day money back guarantee is past'. 'Umm, yea I'm not doing that'. That's when I decided I needed to figure out how to get out.
Well that's ironic! He did what a good boss would offer to do for an employee they liked.
On the ehhiics side, I'm in the software industry (B2B) and that kind of overselling is common enough without being intentional. I'm glad you were able to make a stand and get out and I really hope that guy lost all his customers and then his job .
If was the owner, but yea, basically :-) It was a software company, and from what I heard, after I left all that shit got worse and not too long after that they went out of business. Double slap in the face to the owner I'm sure, because at some point while I was working there, when things were going well, he had a buyout offer that would have set him up for life, and he refused it because he had dollar signs in his eyes on where he could take the company. Couple lessons to anyone that starts a company: 1) the person that can start a successful company from the bottom isn't the same person that can take it to the next level. Don't be arrogant, and 2) if you get an offer that can make you FI, take it and just start another endeavor without the worries of needing to succeed and sustain your family.
My boss once came to me and said he had ordered pagers for me and for those programmers who reported to me. (Yep, that long ago, I'm that old!)
That would be a total waste of our time because our software worked. The network was unreliable and we would spend our off hours trying to track down network people. Screw that!
I looked him in the eye and said, calmly and slowly, "When I and my programmers write such bad code that we require pagers, **I** will find another line of work."
I never saw those damn pagers.
Wow - I'd venture a guess you weren't doing government contract work @SwordGuy. Or this might have been back when there was adequate supply of fairly good programmers to meet the demand (because of the low demand - the supply was severely limited I'm sure, but we didn't always have platforms that made everyone with 2 weeks of downtime and $1,000 to become a "coder"), and stuff like quality was valued over meeting the deadline.
and this was why I ended up on call...........fixing other's incompetence.....all too common a themeWow - I'd venture a guess you weren't doing government contract work @SwordGuy. Or this might have been back when there was adequate supply of fairly good programmers to meet the demand (because of the low demand - the supply was severely limited I'm sure, but we didn't always have platforms that made everyone with 2 weeks of downtime and $1,000 to become a "coder"), and stuff like quality was valued over meeting the deadline.
It was back when pagers were in use, not cellphones. :) So yes, this was back in the day.
And it certainly wasn't government contract work, I've done that too. That's a totally different work environment than working in private industry.
I was just damn good at my job, I had good programmers working for me and I made sure folks used good methods and techniques so our quality was high and our delivery times were decent. 95% of our programming effort went into producing new functionality, 5% went into dealing with issues that cropped up -- and most of that was in one 3rd party software package.
And, equally important, my boss knew I was damn good at my job. He wasn't likely to get that kind of results from my replacement.
FWIW, I've never seen a surplus of really good programmers in my industry. Or even competent ones. And I've been working in the industry since 1982.
Good programmer - key skills have nothing to do with technology really.
Observant enough to see when code you wrote didn't work quite right. Tenacious enough to figure it out. Diplomatic enough to not get yourself fired. Secure enough to ask the questions to get clear on what they want before you start writing your code.
Remember, there's only 2 industries that call their customers 'users'.....IT and Illegal drugs! LoLAnd in both, never consume your product.
Trust me I know . . . but I'd characterize most of the problems I see as "bad programming" and not the fault of changing regulations.Good programmer - key skills have nothing to do with technology really.
Observant enough to see when code you wrote didn't work quite right. Tenacious enough to figure it out. Diplomatic enough to not get yourself fired. Secure enough to ask the questions to get clear on what they want before you start writing your code.
If we knew want they want before starting to code(and that didn't change) it would be too easy. Working in the government with many changes to the policies/politics on the fly, ends up making programs so illogical and complex over the years even with good programmers it's a challenge.
You don't share any of it. You go completely bland: "I have enjoyed being able to make a contribution to the success of [project] and wish the company well for the future."
You don't share any of it. You go completely bland: "I have enjoyed being able to make a contribution to the success of [project] and wish the company well for the future."
Completely agree. There is no advantage to be gained by being honest in an exit interview, no matter how angry you feel about the company you are departing.
You don't share any of it. You go completely bland: "I have enjoyed being able to make a contribution to the success of [project] and wish the company well for the future."
Completely agree. There is no advantage to be gained by being honest in an exit interview, no matter how angry you feel about the company you are departing.
Agree. If you feel the need/desire to share, you can do it anonymously on a site like Glassdoor. In my experience, management will actually pay more attention to this than the silly exit interview surveys.
And also - just forget to do that survey thing. Seriously. What are they going to do, fire you?
Thanks for the advice. I have indeed gone super bland in filling out their forms.
A funny, but not funny addition to my exit interview story. The subject of HR portal task is:
Subject: Terminate: blurkraken22
Is there some repressed agression hidden there? LOL. My last mission is to explain to HR why that is a terrible subject to ever send to a human being.
Long gone are the days of idealism when I thought it was HR's mission to treat us like humans.
I work in HR and on behalf of all those trying to treat employees like human beings and not like pixels on a screen, I am sorry. How awful.How does HR experience impact your read on this entire thread?
Enjoy your new found freedom!
Thanks for the advice. I have indeed gone super bland in filling out their forms.
A funny, but not funny addition to my exit interview story. The subject of HR portal task is:
Subject: Terminate: blurkraken22
Is there some repressed agression hidden there? LOL. My last mission is to explain to HR why that is a terrible subject to ever send to a human being.
Long gone are the days of idealism when I thought it was HR's mission to treat us like humans.
I work in HR and on behalf of all those trying to treat employees like human beings and not like pixels on a screen, I am sorry. How awful.How does HR experience impact your read on this entire thread?
Enjoy your new found freedom!
Nice to see you posting outside the journals section, @Adventine! I'm used to "seeing" you there and it made me smile to see your posts on this thread today. Go, you!I work in HR and on behalf of all those trying to treat employees like human beings and not like pixels on a screen, I am sorry. How awful.How does HR experience impact your read on this entire thread?
Enjoy your new found freedom!
I've been avidly following this thread for years, not through an HR lens, but through a FIRE lens. I'm off-duty when I'm on the MMM forums :)
+1 I'm in HR too, but both here and at work, I'm basically always rooting for people, even when I have to do my job around them. We had a guy leave a toxic manager last month, for a great position and I was privately thrilled for him. Although I gave him the standard line, "We wish you all the best in your future endeavors," I really meant it. I did my job in a professional manner, but I don't run HR or the company. Everyone knows that manager is toxic, and there are 3 more good employees getting set to leave because of him too, but he's got the backing of some high level execs that love him and there's not a thing I could ever do about it.I work in HR and on behalf of all those trying to treat employees like human beings and not like pixels on a screen, I am sorry. How awful.How does HR experience impact your read on this entire thread?
Enjoy your new found freedom!
I've been avidly following this thread for years, not through an HR lens, but through a FIRE lens.
Nice to see you posting outside the journals section, @Adventine! I'm used to "seeing" you there and it made me smile to see your posts on this thread today. Go, you!I work in HR and on behalf of all those trying to treat employees like human beings and not like pixels on a screen, I am sorry. How awful.How does HR experience impact your read on this entire thread?
Enjoy your new found freedom!
I've been avidly following this thread for years, not through an HR lens, but through a FIRE lens. I'm off-duty when I'm on the MMM forums :)
+1 I'm in HR too, but both here and at work, I'm basically always rooting for people, even when I have to do my job around them. We had a guy leave a toxic manager last month, for a great position and I was privately thrilled for him. Although I gave him the standard line, "We wish you all the best in your future endeavors," I really meant it. I did my job in a professional manner, but I don't run HR or the company. Everyone knows that manager is toxic, and there are 3 more good employees getting set to leave because of him too, but he's got the backing of some high level execs that love him and there's not a thing I could ever do about it.I work in HR and on behalf of all those trying to treat employees like human beings and not like pixels on a screen, I am sorry. How awful.How does HR experience impact your read on this entire thread?
Enjoy your new found freedom!
I've been avidly following this thread for years, not through an HR lens, but through a FIRE lens.
No, I would not tell your current employer where you're going. I think it would be appropriate in your exit survey to state things like "Lack of autonomy" or "Lack of opportunity for professional growth," or even "poor project management" but having been down that path before, it's a Sisyphean task. HR won't care what you write--they're only doing it because it's part of the procedure, and they're not the decision-makers, so your feedback is irrelevant to them. And Management is unlikely to care, either--they're too wrapped up in other things to read an exiting employee's feedback. From what I've seen/read/heard, the only way to force a change is to either A) get into management yourself, or B) become such a key employee (i.e. indispensable AND known and respected a couple layers up) that you have some leverage, and even then, you're unlikely to effect any change.
What I'd suggest is 1) document EVERYTHING, and store it offsite, 2) network with the people who ARE competent. Who knows, maybe your new employer will be awesome, and also need to hire more people, and you could help your new employer snipe/rescue some people from your old workplace.
+1 I'm in HR too, but both here and at work, I'm basically always rooting for people, even when I have to do my job around them. We had a guy leave a toxic manager last month, for a great position and I was privately thrilled for him. Although I gave him the standard line, "We wish you all the best in your future endeavors," I really meant it. I did my job in a professional manner, but I don't run HR or the company. Everyone knows that manager is toxic, and there are 3 more good employees getting set to leave because of him too, but he's got the backing of some high level execs that love him and there's not a thing I could ever do about it.I work in HR and on behalf of all those trying to treat employees like human beings and not like pixels on a screen, I am sorry. How awful.How does HR experience impact your read on this entire thread?
Enjoy your new found freedom!
I've been avidly following this thread for years, not through an HR lens, but through a FIRE lens.
It could be that this is the first time she ever saw her behavior through another person's eyes. You might be the catalyst that makes her change the way she treats people for the better. If not, you have likely been the first chink in the wall that will eventually come crumbling down around her.I really like this response because it assumes that the antagonist can change. In fact, the most epic story of all would be the one where the office bully woke up, realized what they were doing, and changed their behavior.
Good for you!
I teach Spanish and English as a retirement side gig.
One of my clients taught me one of the greatest lessons ever. Truly perspective-shifting.
She asked me to rephrase my feedback question from
Do you understand?
to
Am I explaining it well?
I try to embrace the responsibility of reaching the student, not just expecting the student to make progress.
Kind of Mountain and Mohammed stuff.
I hope I explained that well.
It even gets a bonus point because it "creates" the option of "you explained well, but I still don't understand". Which means that not the same information in a different way, but additional information is needed.I teach Spanish and English as a retirement side gig.
One of my clients taught me one of the greatest lessons ever. Truly perspective-shifting.
She asked me to rephrase my feedback question from
Do you understand?
to
Am I explaining it well?
I try to embrace the responsibility of reaching the student, not just expecting the student to make progress.
Kind of Mountain and Mohammed stuff.
I hope I explained that well.
Love it!!! I am going to start using that with my daughter.
I teach Spanish and English as a retirement side gig.
One of my clients taught me one of the greatest lessons ever. Truly perspective-shifting.
She asked me to rephrase my feedback question from
Do you understand?
to
Am I explaining it well?
I try to embrace the responsibility of reaching the student, not just expecting the student to make progress.
Kind of Mountain and Mohammed stuff.
I hope I explained that well.
This thread has entertained me greatly over the past few weeks. I created an account just to submit my story. It didn't seem epic at the time but it felt BA to type it out.
Here's a story from many years ago...more about FU skills than FU money. This experience taught me alot about myself and work/life balance. Some bridges deserve to be burned and the earth salted.
I'm a school psychologist in a school. This position is in major demand in my state because there is no one else in the district who can do a part of our job (test students to help determine if there is a disability). I leave District A as the only psychologist because the then superintendent who was retiring refused to give me a raise I requested. I loved the culture at District A and the people but felt I needed to make the move for my career. District B had a higher salary scale and more opportunity for upward mobility.
August: I made the move to District B after their two psychologists retired. I was hired and they were working on hiring another person. The school district is too big for just one of us and the state has rules limiting how many students I can serve. All is going well until I start being asked to do additional work beyond my contracted day.
September: Usually, "extra work" is expected in my role but they still hadn't filled the other psychlogist's spot as yet so I could see they were aiming to have me do the job of two people. I emailed the superintendent and told her I'd be more than happy to contract with them after my hours to do any additional work they needed. This was the beginning of the craziest school year of all time. This incident was when apparently I poisoned the superintendent against me. In September!!! I was told there was absolutely no way they would contract with me, I was relieved of several other responsibilities and told to prioritize my day appropriately. I'll admit to being flabbergasted but I continued to do my work (not the extra and went on about my day). I'll admit to being a little naive since I thought this was over and I'd stay in my corner.
October: I got the flu and took several days off. My wife and kids all got the flu and I took more days off. In my state, sick time is a state provided benefit (it transfers with you from school to school) and I was actually sick so I took a total of 8 days off in a 14 day period. My job is very deadline driven (federal requirements), so I did work while sick, came in for half days and missed ZERO deadlines.
November: I come into work and was handed a letter of reprimand by my supervisor. I'm the straightest of the straight arrows out there so this was a bit shocking. After the shock I ask about my rights as an employee and ask pointed questions about why I was being treated significantly different than any other employee regarding a state benefit. These questions did nothing to endear me to the superintendent (S), assistant superintendent (AS) or my supervisor. I wrote a letter of appeal outlining why what was being done was discrimination and potentially illegal. I was asked to get a doctor's note for every instance of illness. Annoying but easily done and no one else had to do this. Just me.
I remember clearly meeting with S and telling her that I didn't want a fight. I just wanted to be allowed to do my job and do it well since I was good at it. After all I had missed zero deadlines and every objective measure was positive. She said she didn't want to fight either. I thought she softened but then she said I "would do what she told me to do, no questions asked." I laughed and said, "ok, so it's going to be a fight then." I do nothing outside of contracted hours and stay late
***The reader may be asking themselves why I didn't quit at this point. I considered it but in my state you can have your license suspended for up to a year (no work) for leaving in the middle of a school year. I had babies at home and my wife was stay at home. I didn't have THAT much FU money***
December: Another letter of reprimand this month, I can't remember what about. Most likely insubordination because I flat out said "no" several times. They couldn't fire me because they needed me. They were just trying to make me miserable.
No additional psychologist has been hired. The S, AS and supervisor start to realize that I will reach my caseload maximum soon. I've been tracking every single student I have contact with and realize I'll be done in January at this pace. My role is significantly limited at this point, I have to share a weekly calendar with them and they give me additional responsibilities (!!!!) that were pretty much BS paperwork and busywork. At this point my direct supervisor begins to realize that I'm good at my job and I've done everything that's been asked of me. He gives me a positive mid-year evaluation!!! :D S and AS are pissed. This positive evaluation becomes a giant hammer I use to beat back any negative thing S or AS say against me.
January: I get emailed a laundry list of new tasks for me to complete. I email back and say I won't be doing any of those. What is being asked of me is unethical and potentially illegal. I was asked to supervise a teacher. Something I had never done was not qualified to do. This is when I started to cc the school board on everything and get the teacher's union involved (I am non union). S requests a meeting with the AS and my direct supervisor to go over my new tasks. At this point I had a two year contract with the school. Although employees cannot break contract in the middle of a school year we can leave between school years. I clarified with a state education department lawyer in September. In our meeting I make the mistake (at the end of the meeting while I was getting up) of saying that I'd get them through to the end of the year following all the rules and laws, without missing any deadlines.
The superintendent set her jaw and stated I had a two year contract and they were not releasing me. I laughed and said what I stated above about leaving between years per the state education department lawyer. The superintendent said again that she would refuse to release me. I looked around, stood up, laughed incredulously and said, "I'm not sure what about I just said you didn't understand. I. WILL. NOT. BE. HERE. NEXT SCHOOL YEAR." I did it slowly enough like I thought she didn't understand English then walked out.
I leave this meeting and file a complaint with the Office of Civil rights (OCR) and the equal opportunity commission (EEOC) about withholding of a state issued benefit (sick leave). There was a time limit on when I could complain from the time the incident happened.
February: Turns out my old district A superintendent did retire and hired my friend, a former principal who knew me and my work well. The new psychologist was not working out well for them. They posted my old job again so I applied and got it with a small raise. :) AS and S hear about this through the area grapevine and they are pissed.
Superintendent receives the official OCR and EEOC complaint. From this point there is ABSOLUTE radio silence. It was eerie. There was zero contact from S or AS. I'm assuming their lawyer recommended it.
March-May: I get to do my job (just my part) with no extra work. AS tells me they wish they had taken me up on my offer to contract with them. Me too. They had to hire a local clinical psych who charged them an arm and a leg. I turn my letter of resignation into the district on the absolute last possible day. :D
One year later: The school board changed. The superintendent was demoted to being a teacher. Not even kidding. I think there was something in her contract about guaranteed employment so they demoted her. The AS was demoted to principal. My supervisor resigned after it was found out he was sleeping with a teacher he supervised. He was married. I'm thinking I wasn't the issue here.
This has just been a bad memory since then. I'm still at District A for the time being. I see another FU moment shaping up. My friend, the current superintendent is training me in a school finance area that only she and I know how to do. She is planning on retiring this year. :)
snip of awesome story of school district shooting themselves in the foot from their own pettiness.
August: I made the move to District B after their two psychologists retired. I was hired and they were working on hiring another person. The school district is too big for just one of us and the state has rules limiting how many students I can serve. All is going well until I start being asked to do additional work beyond my contracted day.
...
I'm really good at what I'm specializing in, but I'm not good in all aspects of my general job. Let's say I'm much better at designing high quality baskets than at fixing the looms for underwater basket weaving when they break. I'm trying really hard to becoming better at loom fixing, I watch youtube video's about it in my spare time, but trying to improve means I'm asking lots of questions to coworkers and I work slowly which they perceive as me being incompetent. And of course, I am not good at loom fixing, but hey, I'm not a loom mechanic, I never claimed to be, please let me design the fancy baskets that we can sell for $$$ because that's what I'm really good at. When I do get to design it's always a big success.
It's a thing. I believe @couponvan is our longest runningCan you tell me more about this concept? I may have had a smoke break by already, but I want to be sure I understand the definition before I say that.chain smokersmoke breaker.
@Imma, that's great news. Congratulations!
@Imma, that's great news. Congratulations!
Thanks! I'm really happy with it too. I used to get tons of requests from recruiters on LinkedIn but that stopped as soon as the pandemic happened. I got this job through someone in my network, I didn't actually have to apply.
People tell me how lucky I was, and I am, but it's also been hard work. I've put a lot of effort in my work, I went back for a Master's degree in the evenings (and paid it myself) I put a lot of effort in making connections with people although that's not my natural talent. I was lucky that I was hired for this position but I also put myself in this position where this could happen to me.
People tell me how lucky I was, and I am, but it's also been hard work.
People tell me how lucky I was, and I am, but it's also been hard work.
Luck is what people call it so they don't have to feel bad for not putting in the work that lets people take advantage of, or create, the 'lucky' opportunity.
People tell me how lucky I was, and I am, but it's also been hard work. I've put a lot of effort in my work, I went back for a Master's degree in the evenings (and paid it myself) I put a lot of effort in making connections with people although that's not my natural talent. I was lucky that I was hired for this position but I also put myself in this position where this could happen to me.
@blurkraken22 funny you ask today! I'm officially starting a new job as a basket design auditor today! My previous employer decided to sell off their design devision due to Covid. I had heard rumours and put two and two together so when I was called into the office to be told they were going to let me go, I was able to tell them I had a job interview the next day. I was hired there and will start tomorrow. My previous employer was kind and offered me a generous deal - they acknowledged they had hired me for one thing and then let me do very different work. They agreed my new job would be a better fit and actually recommended me to my new employer.
Tomorrow is my first day of work. I'll be much better paid, better benefits, office is walking distance from home but right now we're 100% work from home. I was asked to defer my last year of grad school (I do evening classes on top of my job) but in return they'll pay my tuition next year and when I get Master of Basket Design degree I'll be able to apply for a better paid position as a senior basket design auditor. I'll still not be able to design myself but I think I will enjoy this job. I enjoyed the auditing parts of my previous job. And we're in the middle of a pandemic and the next few years will be challenging, so a steady, fulltime job with benefits is just what I need. Especially since my partner works in an industry heavily affected by Covid.
A friend of mine has a farm near the sea with a wetland that grows willow. There is a right of common over it, from time immemorial, for fishermen to harvest the willow to make crab and lobster baskets, which they would weave. So weaving underwater baskets is a time honoured occupation in my part of the world.@blurkraken22 funny you ask today! I'm officially starting a new job as a basket design auditor today! My previous employer decided to sell off their design devision due to Covid. I had heard rumours and put two and two together so when I was called into the office to be told they were going to let me go, I was able to tell them I had a job interview the next day. I was hired there and will start tomorrow. My previous employer was kind and offered me a generous deal - they acknowledged they had hired me for one thing and then let me do very different work. They agreed my new job would be a better fit and actually recommended me to my new employer.
Tomorrow is my first day of work. I'll be much better paid, better benefits, office is walking distance from home but right now we're 100% work from home. I was asked to defer my last year of grad school (I do evening classes on top of my job) but in return they'll pay my tuition next year and when I get Master of Basket Design degree I'll be able to apply for a better paid position as a senior basket design auditor. I'll still not be able to design myself but I think I will enjoy this job. I enjoyed the auditing parts of my previous job. And we're in the middle of a pandemic and the next few years will be challenging, so a steady, fulltime job with benefits is just what I need. Especially since my partner works in an industry heavily affected by Covid.
@Imma : Please tell me that "basket design auditor" and "Master of Basket Design degree" are code words for another actual degree/job.
If not, I'll have to rework all my "underwater basket weaving" degree jokes. Dangit :-)
A friend of mine has a farm near the sea with a wetland that grows willow. There is a right of common over it, from time immemorial, for fishermen to harvest the willow to make crab and lobster baskets, which they would weave. So weaving underwater baskets is a time honoured occupation in my part of the world.@blurkraken22 funny you ask today! I'm officially starting a new job as a basket design auditor today! My previous employer decided to sell off their design devision due to Covid. I had heard rumours and put two and two together so when I was called into the office to be told they were going to let me go, I was able to tell them I had a job interview the next day. I was hired there and will start tomorrow. My previous employer was kind and offered me a generous deal - they acknowledged they had hired me for one thing and then let me do very different work. They agreed my new job would be a better fit and actually recommended me to my new employer.
Tomorrow is my first day of work. I'll be much better paid, better benefits, office is walking distance from home but right now we're 100% work from home. I was asked to defer my last year of grad school (I do evening classes on top of my job) but in return they'll pay my tuition next year and when I get Master of Basket Design degree I'll be able to apply for a better paid position as a senior basket design auditor. I'll still not be able to design myself but I think I will enjoy this job. I enjoyed the auditing parts of my previous job. And we're in the middle of a pandemic and the next few years will be challenging, so a steady, fulltime job with benefits is just what I need. Especially since my partner works in an industry heavily affected by Covid.
@Imma : Please tell me that "basket design auditor" and "Master of Basket Design degree" are code words for another actual degree/job.
If not, I'll have to rework all my "underwater basket weaving" degree jokes. Dangit :-)
@blurkraken22 funny you ask today! I'm officially starting a new job as a basket design auditor today! My previous employer decided to sell off their design devision due to Covid. I had heard rumours and put two and two together so when I was called into the office to be told they were going to let me go, I was able to tell them I had a job interview the next day. I was hired there and will start tomorrow. My previous employer was kind and offered me a generous deal - they acknowledged they had hired me for one thing and then let me do very different work. They agreed my new job would be a better fit and actually recommended me to my new employer.
Tomorrow is my first day of work. I'll be much better paid, better benefits, office is walking distance from home but right now we're 100% work from home. I was asked to defer my last year of grad school (I do evening classes on top of my job) but in return they'll pay my tuition next year and when I get Master of Basket Design degree I'll be able to apply for a better paid position as a senior basket design auditor. I'll still not be able to design myself but I think I will enjoy this job. I enjoyed the auditing parts of my previous job. And we're in the middle of a pandemic and the next few years will be challenging, so a steady, fulltime job with benefits is just what I need. Especially since my partner works in an industry heavily affected by Covid.
@Imma : Please tell me that "basket design auditor" and "Master of Basket Design degree" are code words for another actual degree/job.
If not, I'll have to rework all my "underwater basket weaving" degree jokes. Dangit :-)
@blurkraken22 funny you ask today! I'm officially starting a new job as a basket design auditor today! My previous employer decided to sell off their design devision due to Covid. I had heard rumours and put two and two together so when I was called into the office to be told they were going to let me go, I was able to tell them I had a job interview the next day. I was hired there and will start tomorrow. My previous employer was kind and offered me a generous deal - they acknowledged they had hired me for one thing and then let me do very different work. They agreed my new job would be a better fit and actually recommended me to my new employer.
Tomorrow is my first day of work. I'll be much better paid, better benefits, office is walking distance from home but right now we're 100% work from home. I was asked to defer my last year of grad school (I do evening classes on top of my job) but in return they'll pay my tuition next year and when I get Master of Basket Design degree I'll be able to apply for a better paid position as a senior basket design auditor. I'll still not be able to design myself but I think I will enjoy this job. I enjoyed the auditing parts of my previous job. And we're in the middle of a pandemic and the next few years will be challenging, so a steady, fulltime job with benefits is just what I need. Especially since my partner works in an industry heavily affected by Covid.
@Imma : Please tell me that "basket design auditor" and "Master of Basket Design degree" are code words for another actual degree/job.
If not, I'll have to rework all my "underwater basket weaving" degree jokes. Dangit :-)
Maybe we could change those jokes to a degree in Interpretive Dance? No, there are probably high-paying jobs in that field too.
I know someone with a Psych/law degree who is doing just fine. I also know that not all STEM degrees make you lots of money, as in almost all Biologists.
I know someone with a Psych/law degree who is doing just fine. I also know that not all STEM degrees make you lots of money, as in almost all Biologists.
A Psych degree can be useful in dealing with clients if you work in the law field. :-)
An update: I have been at my new job for two months and I had a surprising discussion with my boss today. She asked if I would be interested in a manager position half of the time and working as a lawyer the other half. She is not enjoying the manager parts of being a company owner and wants to focus on the legal stuff. So she has been thinking about an external CEO but has not found someone who would fit. She and the officer manager thinks I would be a good fit. It interest me because even though I like parts of the lawyering stuff I also like the development stuff that would come with the position. We will talk further on friday.
The funny thing is that I talked with a friend on Sunday and told that I had 4 months left on my probationary period before my contract would be a normal until further notice contract. I was obviously doing way better than I thought!
My mother also asked today what I had done or will do with the money I got for leaving my previous job. She also had realised that I could not spend all my salary. I told her I would take a really expensive cruise to Antartica to see the penguins when the covid is over and I was saving for retirement. She concluded that I would be a millionaire and I did not deny that.
@blurkraken22 funny you ask today! I'm officially starting a new job as a basket design auditor today! My previous employer decided to sell off their design devision due to Covid. I had heard rumours and put two and two together so when I was called into the office to be told they were going to let me go, I was able to tell them I had a job interview the next day. I was hired there and will start tomorrow. My previous employer was kind and offered me a generous deal - they acknowledged they had hired me for one thing and then let me do very different work. They agreed my new job would be a better fit and actually recommended me to my new employer.
Tomorrow is my first day of work. I'll be much better paid, better benefits, office is walking distance from home but right now we're 100% work from home. I was asked to defer my last year of grad school (I do evening classes on top of my job) but in return they'll pay my tuition next year and when I get Master of Basket Design degree I'll be able to apply for a better paid position as a senior basket design auditor. I'll still not be able to design myself but I think I will enjoy this job. I enjoyed the auditing parts of my previous job. And we're in the middle of a pandemic and the next few years will be challenging, so a steady, fulltime job with benefits is just what I need. Especially since my partner works in an industry heavily affected by Covid.
@Imma : Please tell me that "basket design auditor" and "Master of Basket Design degree" are code words for another actual degree/job.
If not, I'll have to rework all my "underwater basket weaving" degree jokes. Dangit :-)
Maybe we could change those jokes to a degree in Interpretive Dance? No, there are probably high-paying jobs in that field too.
An update: I have been at my new job for two months and I had a surprising discussion with my boss today. She asked if I would be interested in a manager position half of the time and working as a lawyer the other half. She is not enjoying the manager parts of being a company owner and wants to focus on the legal stuff. So she has been thinking about an external CEO but has not found someone who would fit. She and the officer manager thinks I would be a good fit. It interest me because even though I like parts of the lawyering stuff I also like the development stuff that would come with the position. We will talk further on friday.Wow! That sounds interesting. Personally I always find it boring to do the same thing the whole day. And in this case you might be able to slowly grow into, which is definitely a nice thing.
An update: I have been at my new job for two months and I had a surprising discussion with my boss today. She asked if I would be interested in a manager position half of the time and working as a lawyer the other half. She is not enjoying the manager parts of being a company owner and wants to focus on the legal stuff. So she has been thinking about an external CEO but has not found someone who would fit. She and the officer manager thinks I would be a good fit. It interest me because even though I like parts of the lawyering stuff I also like the development stuff that would come with the position. We will talk further on friday.
Don't put all MMM people in one hat, please! I am nearly as far away as STEM as possible. I do work in an IT company now though :DAn update: I have been at my new job for two months and I had a surprising discussion with my boss today. She asked if I would be interested in a manager position half of the time and working as a lawyer the other half. She is not enjoying the manager parts of being a company owner and wants to focus on the legal stuff. So she has been thinking about an external CEO but has not found someone who would fit. She and the officer manager thinks I would be a good fit. It interest me because even though I like parts of the lawyering stuff I also like the development stuff that would come with the position. We will talk further on friday.Wow! That sounds interesting. Personally I always find it boring to do the same thing the whole day. And in this case you might be able to slowly grow into, which is definitely a nice thing.
Talk with your boss that you are doing in a sort of phasing, that would surely be better for both of you.
On a similar topic:
Here in Germany many craftsman will close (or already have) their small business because they can't find a suitable successor (all getting in the age at once, low amount of young people). They would love someone they can show the ropes for a few years and who then takes over the company.
It is that way in the US / Canada too?
An update: I have been at my new job for two months and I had a surprising discussion with my boss today. She asked if I would be interested in a manager position half of the time and working as a lawyer the other half. She is not enjoying the manager parts of being a company owner and wants to focus on the legal stuff. So she has been thinking about an external CEO but has not found someone who would fit. She and the officer manager thinks I would be a good fit. It interest me because even though I like parts of the lawyering stuff I also like the development stuff that would come with the position. We will talk further on friday.
Wow, interesting development! It can really lead to bigger things ahead!
One caution though - sometimes it can be hard to manage your boss... to have her both "over" you as owner and/or board and "below" you as one of the persons you should manage. I have seen it fail. But I have also seen it succeed. It really depends a lot on how the now non-CEO owner handles things, especially "in public" where it's visible to the rest of the company and possibly other stakeholders. You seem like a person who knows where to draw the line, so I think it'll go great. :)
Did I mention that his on-call shift was also set to start in 4 days, and no one else was scheduled for that overtime for the next 2 weeks - just my husband? So they had to scramble to have their small team cover 2 weeks of extra work because they made an ultimatum. Later the manager privately asked, 'isn't this short notice for letting us know you are not continuing in the job?' Uh, yeah. But it's exactly the same 4 days you gave us.
Less than 2 months later and he had 3 job offers - all with his preferred 0.8 FTE schedule, and accepted the one closest to home that just happens to have zero on-call shifts and it's working out great. The job he left had an 'urgent' job posting online until about a week ago.
Did I mention that his on-call shift was also set to start in 4 days, and no one else was scheduled for that overtime for the next 2 weeks - just my husband? So they had to scramble to have their small team cover 2 weeks of extra work because they made an ultimatum. Later the manager privately asked, 'isn't this short notice for letting us know you are not continuing in the job?' Uh, yeah. But it's exactly the same 4 days you gave us.
Later the manager privately asked, 'isn't this short notice for letting us know you are not continuing in the job?' Uh, yeah. But it's exactly the same 4 days you gave us.
Did I mention that his on-call shift was also set to start in 4 days, and no one else was scheduled for that overtime for the next 2 weeks - just my husband? So they had to scramble to have their small team cover 2 weeks of extra work because they made an ultimatum. Later the manager privately asked, 'isn't this short notice for letting us know you are not continuing in the job?' Uh, yeah. But it's exactly the same 4 days you gave us.
Did I mention that his on-call shift was also set to start in 4 days, and no one else was scheduled for that overtime for the next 2 weeks - just my husband? So they had to scramble to have their small team cover 2 weeks of extra work because they made an ultimatum. Later the manager privately asked, 'isn't this short notice for letting us know you are not continuing in the job?' Uh, yeah. But it's exactly the same 4 days you gave us.
I think my response would be "Oh! I'd be happy to continue the job! When will you have the contract ready for me to continue the job instead of changing the terms of work?"
Later the manager privately asked, 'isn't this short notice for letting us know you are notcontinuing in the jobagreeing to be screwed over?'
At the beginning of COVID, it looked like my job was in jeopardy so we did some quick forecasting and reassured ourselves that without changing any spending we had enough on hand for 6-8 months of expenses, and if we went to a bare bones budget and accessed saving deposits we could easily make it through 2 years of expenses without touching retirement funds. A few months pass and our financial situation is slightly improved as our expenses are naturally reduced with less travel, commuting, eating out, etc and at the same time the reality of job loss is still there (a few coworkers were laid off) so we stayed cautious.
At the end of summer, my husband was called into a meeting at work and presented with a new employment contract set to take effect in 4 days. The new terms would eliminate the weekly day off, severely limit sick days, and had a few other unappealing clauses. They said it was so they could ensure coverage during covid in case anyone got sick, but it really had no provision for isolating if you had symptoms, only if you had a positive test (no days off while waiting for results of test - what?!) This was presented as a take it or leave it - either it takes effect in 4 days or you have no contract and no job. Well, they had no idea that we were not as dependant on the job as they thought so it was an easy choice on our end to "Leave it".
Did I mention that his on-call shift was also set to start in 4 days, and no one else was scheduled for that overtime for the next 2 weeks - just my husband? So they had to scramble to have their small team cover 2 weeks of extra work because they made an ultimatum. Later the manager privately asked, 'isn't this short notice for letting us know you are not continuing in the job?' Uh, yeah. But it's exactly the same 4 days you gave us.
Less than 2 months later and he had 3 job offers - all with his preferred 0.8 FTE schedule, and accepted the one closest to home that just happens to have zero on-call shifts and it's working out great. The job he left had an 'urgent' job posting online until about a week ago.
Later the manager privately asked, 'isn't this short notice for letting us know you are notcontinuing in the jobagreeing to be screwed over?'
FTFH
...
I don't think I mentioned it above, but our forecasting included 2 years of expenses covered even if we both lost our jobs. So it was very easy to turn down the new contract.
On the other hand, he is not used to changing jobs so there was definitely some mental stress. It was mitigated knowing that we could wait until the right offer came along, and our finances would be ok.
...
This was pretty glorious, I must say!Later the manager privately asked, 'isn't this short notice for letting us know you are notcontinuing in the jobagreeing to be screwed over?'
FTFH
Haha! Yes, I'm so glad we were not in a desperate position to have to accept those screwy terms.
I don't think I mentioned it above, but our forecasting included 2 years of expenses covered even if we both lost our jobs. So it was very easy to turn down the new contract.
On the other hand, he is not used to changing jobs so there was definitely some mental stress. It was mitigated knowing that we could wait until the right offer came along, and our finances would be ok. The first offer he got came really fast, but it sounded like a stressful position, had a few red flags about the team he would be working with, and was a long commute away. He declined and waited another 2 weeks until the position he wanted came through.
In the meantime, I have 4.5 weeks of vacation time to use up soon and no where to go. I might just take a mini sabbatical myself.
@malachite , Awesome story! Been there, felt your pain. FU money is a glorious thing. Sometimes all it takes is an FU attitude! Here's a totally different situation but hopefully a story that will amuse you.
Years ago I went to work for a Pop software company. (Too small to be a Mom & Pop.) Owner drinks and snorts coke and goes broke. With his permission we take over the software and then we sell a conversion of it to a different computer operating system for a new client.
We're delivering a new module every few weeks. We did the basic student registration module, then the alumni module next (because we got paid the same per module and it was simple and easy).
The #2 guy at this school ran the alumni department. He would tell the #1 guy that our software "just didn't work" but could never give a single specific instance of a defect. We came to believe that he had never used it and was afraid of the computer. (A not uncommon problem back in the day!)
It was a DEC VAX computer. A weird feature of the DEC terminals (screens and keyboards) was that the keyboard came with a hard, opaque plastic dust cover. We snuck into the guy's office after hours and stole his keyboard but left the dust cover in place on his desk.
Two weeks later we pulled up to the school, parked in front of the window to the conference room so we could be seen to arrive, and went into the meeting room where people were already starting to arrive. We got the usual vague song and dance about the alumni software not working.
After the meeting we asked the #1 guy to stay back for a moment. After the room cleared out, we explained to the #1 guy that we were tired of hearing that our alumni module didn't work. It worked. It worked just fine. We believed that the #2 guy had never even tried to use it. And this is where it got fun. "We believe that so strongly that the last time we were here two weeks ago, we stole his keyboard and left the dust cover in place. We're willing to wager, sight-unseen, that he doesn't know it's gone." At that point my wife pulled his keyboard out of a big bag she had been toting.
#1 guy looked at us in total surprise. He walked out of the room at a brisk pace and came back a few minutes later. We never discussed that subsystem again. It was perfect.
We didn't have FU money. We were just tired of putting up with shit being tossed on our professional reputation.
<highly fulfilling story of software development justice>
This is amazing!
Yeah, that's a great ending. And you folks must have had nerves of steel to pull it off!OMG, @scottish, I love your siggy line!
<highly fulfilling story of software development justice>
This is amazing!
I agree, I'm sure it was infuriating at the time, but it sure makes a good story now. I can just visualize the scene where guy #1 realizes guy #2 has been 'using' a computer without a keyboard for 2 weeks.
@malachite , Awesome story! Been there, felt your pain. FU money is a glorious thing. Sometimes all it takes is an FU attitude! Here's a totally different situation but hopefully a story that will amuse you.
Years ago I went to work for a Pop software company. (Too small to be a Mom & Pop.) Owner drinks and snorts coke and goes broke. With his permission we take over the software and then we sell a conversion of it to a different computer operating system for a new client.
We're delivering a new module every few weeks. We did the basic student registration module, then the alumni module next (because we got paid the same per module and it was simple and easy).
The #2 guy at this school ran the alumni department. He would tell the #1 guy that our software "just didn't work" but could never give a single specific instance of a defect. We came to believe that he had never used it and was afraid of the computer. (A not uncommon problem back in the day!)
It was a DEC VAX computer. A weird feature of the DEC terminals (screens and keyboards) was that the keyboard came with a hard, opaque plastic dust cover. We snuck into the guy's office after hours and stole his keyboard but left the dust cover in place on his desk.
Two weeks later we pulled up to the school, parked in front of the window to the conference room so we could be seen to arrive, and went into the meeting room where people were already starting to arrive. We got the usual vague song and dance about the alumni software not working.
After the meeting we asked the #1 guy to stay back for a moment. After the room cleared out, we explained to the #1 guy that we were tired of hearing that our alumni module didn't work. It worked. It worked just fine. We believed that the #2 guy had never even tried to use it. And this is where it got fun. "We believe that so strongly that the last time we were here two weeks ago, we stole his keyboard and left the dust cover in place. We're willing to wager, sight-unseen, that he doesn't know it's gone." At that point my wife pulled his keyboard out of a big bag she had been toting.
#1 guy looked at us in total surprise. He walked out of the room at a brisk pace and came back a few minutes later. We never discussed that subsystem again. It was perfect.
We didn't have FU money. We were just tired of putting up with shit being tossed on our professional reputation.
@malachite , Awesome story! Been there, felt your pain. FU money is a glorious thing. Sometimes all it takes is an FU attitude! Here's a totally different situation but hopefully a story that will amuse you.
Years ago I went to work for a Pop software company. (Too small to be a Mom & Pop.) Owner drinks and snorts coke and goes broke. With his permission we take over the software and then we sell a conversion of it to a different computer operating system for a new client.
We're delivering a new module every few weeks. We did the basic student registration module, then the alumni module next (because we got paid the same per module and it was simple and easy).
The #2 guy at this school ran the alumni department. He would tell the #1 guy that our software "just didn't work" but could never give a single specific instance of a defect. We came to believe that he had never used it and was afraid of the computer. (A not uncommon problem back in the day!)
It was a DEC VAX computer. A weird feature of the DEC terminals (screens and keyboards) was that the keyboard came with a hard, opaque plastic dust cover. We snuck into the guy's office after hours and stole his keyboard but left the dust cover in place on his desk.
Two weeks later we pulled up to the school, parked in front of the window to the conference room so we could be seen to arrive, and went into the meeting room where people were already starting to arrive. We got the usual vague song and dance about the alumni software not working.
After the meeting we asked the #1 guy to stay back for a moment. After the room cleared out, we explained to the #1 guy that we were tired of hearing that our alumni module didn't work. It worked. It worked just fine. We believed that the #2 guy had never even tried to use it. And this is where it got fun. "We believe that so strongly that the last time we were here two weeks ago, we stole his keyboard and left the dust cover in place. We're willing to wager, sight-unseen, that he doesn't know it's gone." At that point my wife pulled his keyboard out of a big bag she had been toting.
#1 guy looked at us in total surprise. He walked out of the room at a brisk pace and came back a few minutes later. We never discussed that subsystem again. It was perfect.
We didn't have FU money. We were just tired of putting up with shit being tossed on our professional reputation.
Not long after, my supervisor showed up at my desk. He looked upset, apologized, and said that not only was my offer rescinded but that they were canceling my contract.
Right then.
As in—”Get your stuff—we’re walking out right now. Give me your security badge.”
I shut down my workstation, grabbed my bag and a few personal items, then walked out the door with the supervisor right behind me.
I drove home stunned, but happy with my decision.
FU money let me do what I thought was right. And I wasn’t the least bit worried about paying my bills until I found a new job.
...
It sounds like it was a test of loyalty to them. F that. If they value your loyalty more than your underlying honesty and commitment to fulfilling your obligations to your past clients, that’s a huge red flag. As a leader, that commitment and integrity is what I would find most valuable, and I would be more likely to keep you around.
A couple years ago, I nearly left my employer for another job. I work for two partners, and have a good relationship with both. My salary had basically stayed stagnant for a few years. One of the partners is convinced (and I actually agree) that salary increases don't make people more productive. But the realization I came to (and subsequently shared) is that salary increases *do* help your productive people to stay. Transition costs, whether it be replacing an employee or relocating a business, are really stinkin' high, especially in a small and highly technical business such as ours.It sounds like it was a test of loyalty to them. F that. If they value your loyalty more than your underlying honesty and commitment to fulfilling your obligations to your past clients, that’s a huge red flag. As a leader, that commitment and integrity is what I would find most valuable, and I would be more likely to keep you around.When we had trouble attracting and keeping good staff, I constantly said we need to pay more. That's the bottom line--better salary or better benefits. The owners and upper-level management refused to do it. After beating my head against this wall for a few months of middle-level management, I left the industry completely. Our here in the real world, the company I work for understands that good benefits, good salary, and a good working environment *create* loyalty, not some rah-rah crap being spouted by HR.
One of the partners is convinced (and I actually agree) that salary increases don't make people more productive. But the realization I came to (and subsequently shared) is that salary increases *do* help your productive people to stay.
A couple years ago, I nearly left my employer for another job. I work for two partners, and have a good relationship with both. My salary had basically stayed stagnant for a few years. One of the partners is convinced (and I actually agree) that salary increases don't make people more productive. But the realization I came to (and subsequently shared) is that salary increases *do* help your productive people to stay. Transition costs, whether it be replacing an employee or relocating a business, are really stinkin' high, especially in a small and highly technical business such as ours.It sounds like it was a test of loyalty to them. F that. If they value your loyalty more than your underlying honesty and commitment to fulfilling your obligations to your past clients, that’s a huge red flag. As a leader, that commitment and integrity is what I would find most valuable, and I would be more likely to keep you around.When we had trouble attracting and keeping good staff, I constantly said we need to pay more. That's the bottom line--better salary or better benefits. The owners and upper-level management refused to do it. After beating my head against this wall for a few months of middle-level management, I left the industry completely. Our here in the real world, the company I work for understands that good benefits, good salary, and a good working environment *create* loyalty, not some rah-rah crap being spouted by HR.
It sounds like it was a test of loyalty to them. F that. If they value your loyalty more than your underlying honesty and commitment to fulfilling your obligations to your past clients, that’s a huge red flag. As a leader, that commitment and integrity is what I would find most valuable, and I would be more likely to keep you around."Loyality Tests" like those are complete BS. Not only you make your people unhappy (which is a sure way to lower loyality), but you also tend to end up with people in vulnerable positions (as in "I can't afford to go!!"), wich are prime targets for "secret side hustles", bribery or theft.
Not long after, my supervisor showed up at my desk. He looked upset, apologized, and said that not only was my offer rescinded but that they were canceling my contract.
Right then.
As in—”Get your stuff—we’re walking out right now. Give me your security badge.”
I shut down my workstation, grabbed my bag and a few personal items, then walked out the door with the supervisor right behind me.
I drove home stunned, but happy with my decision.
FU money let me do what I thought was right. And I wasn’t the least bit worried about paying my bills until I found a new job.
...
Full source: This Is the Power of FU Money (and How I Was Escorted Out) (https://www.tictoclife.com/fu-money/)
WOW! Did you ever find out why they were so gung ho about shutting down your side hustle?
It sounds like it was a test of loyalty to them. F that. If they value your loyalty more than your underlying honesty and commitment to fulfilling your obligations to your past clients, that’s a huge red flag. As a leader, that commitment and integrity is what I would find most valuable, and I would be more likely to keep you around."Loyality Tests" like those are complete BS. Not only you make your people unhappy (which is a sure way to lower loyality), but you also tend to end up with people in vulnerable positions (as in "I can't afford to go!!"), wich are prime targets for "secret side hustles", bribery or theft.
I read the story as the person’s job and side hustle were in the same (or at least related) industries, and the concerns there are potential leakage of intellectual property and working the side hustle on company time (programming windows look the same from far away... is the person working on company stuff or side hustle?).
Had the side hustle been something totally unrelated such as yard work or working in a restaurant, I’m guessing the company wouldn’t have brought it up.
Most likely, someone did something entirely unethical and/or illegal with a side hustle in the companies history. Some exec got upset and the company put "no outside employment" in the company handbook, and no provision for exceptions. This mentality is pretty common in anything government/contractor related.
I read the story as the person’s job and side hustle were in the same (or at least related) industries, and the concerns there are potential leakage of intellectual property and working the side hustle on company time (programming windows look the same from far away... is the person working on company stuff or side hustle?).
Had the side hustle been something totally unrelated such as yard work or working in a restaurant, I’m guessing the company wouldn’t have brought it up.
Perhaps. The side hustle was mostly in digital support on the web. For example, the primary client at the time that remained was involved in giving scholarships to needy children. I provided some web-related guidance for them.
The work I did at the company was internal facing and more technical as part of a large communications project.
The only real relationship was that both types of work were digital. A little like if suggested you couldn't run a side gig that built mountain bike trails in your local parks because your primary work was in geological analysis of mineral deposits in the Congo. They're both outdoors. :-)Most likely, someone did something entirely unethical and/or illegal with a side hustle in the companies history. Some exec got upset and the company put "no outside employment" in the company handbook, and no provision for exceptions. This mentality is pretty common in anything government/contractor related.
This is the sort of reasoning I would lean towards.
And to be clear (and supporting what @Boll weevil was saying), I don't necessarily disagree with what the company did or why they did it. I'm sure there is some sort of explanation and historical good reason for it. And more importantly, they can make hiring decisions based on whatever they wish (within legal bounds).
I was sharing the story to highlight a good reason to have FU money, and a fun escorted "walk of shame" out of the office. :-)
Had the side hustle been something totally unrelated such as yard work or working in a restaurant, I’m guessing the company wouldn’t have brought it up.Sadly, too often it's a blanket policy of "no outside businesses, period." I know a couple of guys who worked for a huge multinational oil company with such a policy. They started a web-based side business. There was absolutely no overlap between the two industries, and yet the policy applied. At first they just didn't mention they had a side gig, and then eventually the side gig became profitable enough that they quit their day jobs.
then eventually the side gig became profitable enough that they quit their day jobs.
then eventually the side gig became profitable enough that they quit their day jobs.
That might be the reason right there!
Had the side hustle been something totally unrelated such as yard work or working in a restaurant, I’m guessing the company wouldn’t have brought it up.Sadly, too often it's a blanket policy of "no outside businesses, period." I know a couple of guys who worked for a huge multinational oil company with such a policy. They started a web-based side business. There was absolutely no overlap between the two industries, and yet the policy applied. At first they just didn't mention they had a side gig, and then eventually the side gig became profitable enough that they quit their day jobs.
Clearly you live in a country where workers have actual rights.Had the side hustle been something totally unrelated such as yard work or working in a restaurant, I’m guessing the company wouldn’t have brought it up.Sadly, too often it's a blanket policy of "no outside businesses, period." I know a couple of guys who worked for a huge multinational oil company with such a policy. They started a web-based side business. There was absolutely no overlap between the two industries, and yet the policy applied. At first they just didn't mention they had a side gig, and then eventually the side gig became profitable enough that they quit their day jobs.
HR/businesses are stupid. They don't know how to harness the power of employees. Businesses think they have power but it is the workers who have all the power. Businesses are rooted to the spot. Employees, if they're good and talented, can work for anyone in the world, including themselves (even more so in today's knowledge-based economy). Businesses have to give into good employees' demands otherwise it's all over, red rover. Particularly in this day and age of retrenchment payouts and sick leave, employees can really screw around with employers if they want to (though it pays to not burn bridges).
I'm constantly amazed by how conflict-avoidant many employees are. Sure, if you're a poor/average employee it pays to keep your mouth shut. But the stars and super stars are mostly short changing themselves. By making demands of their employer and skipping jobs they could get a lot more money in their pocket. FIRE aims to make that easier by removing any reliance you have on your employer, and thus evening the bargaining power.
I have found that when you no longer care about a business relationship's future, that is when you have the most power. And you should try to have that impartiality in all your business relationships.
I disagree. Not with the outcomes--I agree with you there. HR's job isn't to harness the power of employees. Their job isn't to use common sense, nor to act in anyone's (the employee's or the business's) best interest. HR's job, at least in large businesses, is to enforce the rules set up by management, no matter how nonsensical the rules are, or how much damage would be done to the company by enforcing bad policy. One of those two guys was a high-performer, on the fast track to upper management, when he chose to leave instead. Recently, he told me the story of a good friend of his, who used to work for one of the FAANGs, and was similarly a high-performer. He did something that apparently ruffled some feathers, although it violated no written company policy, did not affect his job performance, and was in no way detrimental to the company. He got fired. Zero warning, zero opportunity to course correct, zero consideration for the high-five-to-low-six-figure cost to the company to replace him, no regard for the wishes of his chain of command.Had the side hustle been something totally unrelated such as yard work or working in a restaurant, I’m guessing the company wouldn’t have brought it up.Sadly, too often it's a blanket policy of "no outside businesses, period." I know a couple of guys who worked for a huge multinational oil company with such a policy. They started a web-based side business. There was absolutely no overlap between the two industries, and yet the policy applied. At first they just didn't mention they had a side gig, and then eventually the side gig became profitable enough that they quit their day jobs.
HR/businesses are stupid. They don't know how to harness the power of employees.
I mean...meh? Star employees do get to dictate a lot more than they probably realize. But also, 95% of our employees THINK they’re stars when only 5% or so would be hard to replace. When people bring us their ultimatums, we just tell them we wish them well. In the US we’re mostly at will employers so there are no real costs to letting them leave. If they leave of their own volition we don’t even have to pay unemployment. I don’t say this because I think it’s right, but because it’s reality. Most of our workforce have very little sway over their situation, except to choose to leave.I would disagree with the bolded above, because this is horribly short sighted. No, there are no immediate obvious costs, but training a new person every few months to a year is expensive! It's much cheaper to pay a bit more or give other perks than to constantly lose people (and institutional knowledge).
In the US, HR is not there to be a buffer between employees and management. They’re there to keep the company from being sued. In the meantime, they have other tasks, but that’s priority #1.
I'm constantly amazed by how conflict-avoidant many employees are. Sure, if you're a poor/average employee it pays to keep your mouth shut[...]
Technically no, most people are not necessarily average. Half the people are below the median, half are above. But the average can practically be anywhere between the best and the worst.I'm constantly amazed by how conflict-avoidant many employees are. Sure, if you're a poor/average employee it pays to keep your mouth shut[...]
Most people are average. Otherwise, 'average' would mean something different.
Technically no, most people are not necessarily average. Half the people are below the median, half are above. But the average can practically be anywhere between the best and the worst.I'm constantly amazed by how conflict-avoidant many employees are. Sure, if you're a poor/average employee it pays to keep your mouth shut[...]
Most people are average. Otherwise, 'average' would mean something different.
You mean one for the Average Joe and one for the person who knows what it means.Technically no, most people are not necessarily average. Half the people are below the median, half are above. But the average can practically be anywhere between the best and the worst.I'm constantly amazed by how conflict-avoidant many employees are. Sure, if you're a poor/average employee it pays to keep your mouth shut[...]
Most people are average. Otherwise, 'average' would mean something different.
The definition of "average" seems to have diverged: one meaning for the average person and another for the pedantic.
You mean one for the Average Joe and one for the person who knows what it means.
I have personally never seen the term "average" used to mean anything but the mean. But the distinction is anything but pedantry. People being ignorant about this distinction is exactly why we see bills being promoted by saying things like "this Bill will give taxpayers an average tax cut of $1000" to make people think that they're going to get a $1000 tax cut when it in fact means that the 0.1% get a $1,000,000 tax cut and anyone who makes below $250k gets $0...You mean one for the Average Joe and one for the person who knows what it means.
This is a pretty snide comment, given that the distinction is both unimportant to the point and incomplete in its pedantry. "Average" can refer to either the mean, median, or mode of a series, so it's kind of puzzling to go out of one's way to start correcting us with the idea that we're obviously talking about the mean. All else being equal, instead of making assumptions that don't fit the text, why not make assumptions that do fit the text?
I didn't find it illustrative to speculate about the exact distribution of effort/skill level among employees. That's not something you can easily quantify, anyway. If it's all the same to you, let's assume it's either a normal distribution or is otherwise like most datasets where people even bother to calculate an average--that is to say, the mean and median are close enough values that when we're having colloquial discussions, that we don't really need to specify which average we mean.
Finally, the point about single extremely high outliers skewing the mean is true. But if that's the case, then the "most people are average" point to explain Bloop's observation only changes in a pedantic way--those extremely high outliers are thus even rarer cases than we would have expected for a normal distribution, so it's definitely advantageous for most people to keep their mouth shut.
Maybe it's because I am a pedandric German, but I think:You mean one for the Average Joe and one for the person who knows what it means.
This is a pretty snide comment, given that the distinction is both unimportant to the point and incomplete in its pedantry.
No, it isn't like that at all. Let's not derail the derailment even further. Cue Elsa singing "Let It Go".Maybe it's because I am a pedandric German, but I think:You mean one for the Average Joe and one for the person who knows what it means.
This is a pretty snide comment, given that the distinction is both unimportant to the point and incomplete in its pedantry.
It's only a snide comment to those who have slept during math 6th class.
If you think it's unimportant, then let me ask you this: Do you care if you earn $2000 or $3000 a month?
Because that is the unimportant, pedantric difference between average and median income.It's like those people who think a maximum tax rate of 50% means they have to pay 50% on the first dollar.
You just can't have a successful communication if even those basics of meaning are not clear.
This used to be my favorite thread.It will be again.
I have always secretly wanted to witness an FU money story in person, but now that most people WFH, I haven't had the opportunity.Don't wait for good things to happen. Make them happen yourself!
Maybe one of these days I'll receive a company-wide final rage quit email from someone... One can dream.
I have always secretly wanted to witness an FU money story in person, but now that most people WFH, I haven't had the opportunity.
Maybe one of these days I'll receive a company-wide final rage quit email from someone... One can dream.
Ha! Maybe I'll put it in my email signature as a sneaky motivational quote, effective at evading management!I have always secretly wanted to witness an FU money story in person, but now that most people WFH, I haven't had the opportunity.Don't wait for good things to happen. Make them happen yourself!
Maybe one of these days I'll receive a company-wide final rage quit email from someone... One can dream.
I have always secretly wanted to witness an FU money story in person, but now that most people WFH, I haven't had the opportunity.
Maybe one of these days I'll receive a company-wide final rage quit email from someone... One can dream.
I have always secretly wanted to witness an FU money story in person, but now that most people WFH, I haven't had the opportunity.
Maybe one of these days I'll receive a company-wide final rage quit email from someone... One can dream.
Even if I was super annoyed at a firm and wanted to rage quit, I'd not do it in writing or in a cheeky/histrionic way. I don't think that helps anyone. It doesn't increase your leverage, it won't make your next employer/principal pay more, and it's not going to hurt your current employer (unless you're genuinely whistleblowing or something). Heck even if I were retiring and had no further need to maintain happy relations, I'd still bow out graciously. It's your actions (in leaving/negotiating) that count not your words!
I have always secretly wanted to witness an FU money story in person, but now that most people WFH, I haven't had the opportunity.
Maybe one of these days I'll receive a company-wide final rage quit email from someone... One can dream.
Even if I was super annoyed at a firm and wanted to rage quit, I'd not do it in writing or in a cheeky/histrionic way. I don't think that helps anyone. It doesn't increase your leverage, it won't make your next employer/principal pay more, and it's not going to hurt your current employer (unless you're genuinely whistleblowing or something). Heck even if I were retiring and had no further need to maintain happy relations, I'd still bow out graciously. It's your actions (in leaving/negotiating) that count not your words!
Oh yes, no arguments here. In real life, outside MMM Forumland, always better to bow out graciously and leave behind a good impression, no matter how unhappy someone has been in their job.
But in this tiny corner of the internet, it's fun to read the stories!
I have always secretly wanted to witness an FU money story in person, but now that most people WFH, I haven't had the opportunity.
Maybe one of these days I'll receive a company-wide final rage quit email from someone... One can dream.
Even if I was super annoyed at a firm and wanted to rage quit, I'd not do it in writing or in a cheeky/histrionic way. I don't think that helps anyone. It doesn't increase your leverage, it won't make your next employer/principal pay more, and it's not going to hurt your current employer (unless you're genuinely whistleblowing or something). Heck even if I were retiring and had no further need to maintain happy relations, I'd still bow out graciously. It's your actions (in leaving/negotiating) that count not your words!
Oh yes, no arguments here. In real life, outside MMM Forumland, always better to bow out graciously and leave behind a good impression, no matter how unhappy someone has been in their job.
But in this tiny corner of the internet, it's fun to read the stories!
Maybe it's because I am a pedandric German, but I think:
It's only a snide comment to those who have slept during math 6th class.
If you think it's unimportant, then let me ask you this: Do you care if you earn $2000 or $3000 a month?
Because that is the unimportant, pedantric difference between average and median income.
I have always secretly wanted to witness an FU money story in person, but now that most people WFH, I haven't had the opportunity.
Maybe one of these days I'll receive a company-wide final rage quit email from someone... One can dream.
Even if I was super annoyed at a firm and wanted to rage quit, I'd not do it in writing or in a cheeky/histrionic way. I don't think that helps anyone. It doesn't increase your leverage, it won't make your next employer/principal pay more, and it's not going to hurt your current employer (unless you're genuinely whistleblowing or something). Heck even if I were retiring and had no further need to maintain happy relations, I'd still bow out graciously. It's your actions (in leaving/negotiating) that count not your words!
Oh yes, no arguments here. In real life, outside MMM Forumland, always better to bow out graciously and leave behind a good impression, no matter how unhappy someone has been in their job.
But in this tiny corner of the internet, it's fun to read the stories!
I'll add, most FU stories aren't all that dramatic in real life. The recent one with the CLO leaving the company because of a dispute with the CEO felt dramatic, but from the company's point of view, it was pretty ho-hum. She went to the CEO personally, she explained her problems and where to draw the line, she used the power of her role and her contract to get her out of the situation, and she was free to do all of that (even when the CEO pressured her to stop) because of her FU money.
That's what it's all about, having the freedom to hold your ground or make a choice that works for you. Heck, that's what FIRE is ultimately about as well.
I've seen it done. It was amazing to watch. Someone I worked with quit for another job. He was set to work his notice as normal which he did for a little while, then in the last few days he made a point of finding everyone who he had a minor gripe with and telling them exactly what he thought. It lasted for a couple of days before HR got wind and he was escorted off. (mega corp so things take a while to get traction) It was a couple of days of spectacular bridge burning extravaganza.
I have always secretly wanted to witness an FU money story in person, but now that most people WFH, I haven't had the opportunity.
Maybe one of these days I'll receive a company-wide final rage quit email from someone... One can dream.
Even if I was super annoyed at a firm and wanted to rage quit, I'd not do it in writing or in a cheeky/histrionic way. I don't think that helps anyone. It doesn't increase your leverage, it won't make your next employer/principal pay more, and it's not going to hurt your current employer (unless you're genuinely whistleblowing or something). Heck even if I were retiring and had no further need to maintain happy relations, I'd still bow out graciously. It's your actions (in leaving/negotiating) that count not your words!
Oh yes, no arguments here. In real life, outside MMM Forumland, always better to bow out graciously and leave behind a good impression, no matter how unhappy someone has been in their job.
But in this tiny corner of the internet, it's fun to read the stories!
I'll add, most FU stories aren't all that dramatic in real life. The recent one with the CLO leaving the company because of a dispute with the CEO felt dramatic, but from the company's point of view, it was pretty ho-hum. She went to the CEO personally, she explained her problems and where to draw the line, she used the power of her role and her contract to get her out of the situation, and she was free to do all of that (even when the CEO pressured her to stop) because of her FU money.
That's what it's all about, having the freedom to hold your ground or make a choice that works for you. Heck, that's what FIRE is ultimately about as well.
I haven't gotten the chance to read the document but my SIL was able to save it before the company wiped the email. There was a senior HR employee who sent their immediate resignation out and bcc'd the entire organization (4-5000 employees). The email just said they quit effective immediately and to read the attachment. The attachment was a 13 page document full of detailed accounts of inappropriate behavior, inconsistent application of policies, and gross misconduct within the department and organization as a whole.
I've seen it done. It was amazing to watch. Someone I worked with quit for another job. He was set to work his notice as normal which he did for a little while, then in the last few days he made a point of finding everyone who he had a minor gripe with and telling them exactly what he thought. It lasted for a couple of days before HR got wind and he was escorted off. (mega corp so things take a while to get traction) It was a couple of days of spectacular bridge burning extravaganza.
Maybe he was just celebrating Festivus early
I love that. Telemarketing is such a crazy job. In college I worked a short stint on the phones and at our office, everyone was either a college kid or an alcoholic with nowhere else to work. When I decided to quit I just stopped showing up and nobody ever called or checked up on me, I just stopped getting checks. I imagine most places are a revolving door.
Kwame’s Final Song
For every success in telemarketer hell ...
... Kwame's FU Money status was unknown, but he drove a Huffy, so his expenses were low.
I walked out of the highest paying job of my life at the tail end of 2006, IT work for a big financial company. (Completely transparent hint: VWELX without the V)
I'd been there about three and a half years. First two years were good because I had a decent manager who showed signs of being a real human being once in a while.
Third year, I get a new manager, and he's a total Fbag. He had his last name on his license plate. Guys on his team instantly began working 65+ hours a week instead of an already demanding 50ish. The company paid really well so I stuck with it. It's only work, right?
Wrong. He started calling all of his guys on home phones, cell phones, etc. to discuss any issues he could think of at any time. I started to think of him as a terrorist because you never knew when the next attack was coming. He would frame the calls in the guise of "production support" because part of our role was to provide after-hours support for systems and services that needed to be available. But many of the topics were not directly related to outages and were really just beatings. He was a micromanager, a control-freak, and a grade-A douche who hid his insecurity behind his overbearing and driven public persona. God help his children.
The final straw came when I got a call on Sunday Dec 23rd in 2006. We had an outage on Saturday and I'd been involved in fixing it. My girlfriend (now wife) was helping me decorate a small, pathetic looking christmas tree. We were trying to put work behind us and enjoy one quiet day to ourselves, without any office nonsense, prior to the upcoming week, which was going to be full of family visits and travel. Just one goddamn quiet day, you know?
I pick up the phone and he starts complaining about the work I did the previous day, Saturday. (Saturday mind, you -- work I put in on a non-standard day. I should also add it was the 6th Saturday in a row that I'd worked. This was fairly typical for the job.) He says I need to remember to "fall on my sword" as soon as I get back to the office on Dec 26th -- tell everyone that the Saturday problem was my fault and I'm taking the proper long term corrective actions to resolve it. (The problem wasn't actually my fault but he wanted me to take responsibility for it anyway.)
I remind him it's Sunday, and we're coming up on Christmas, and ask if there's any current problem that needs to be resolved. (I'm really asking: are any systems down? Is there any business related reason for this call or is this just a friendly Sunday afternoon beating?) He says yes, the problem is we have too many outages and the perception of the team is negative. I tell him we should talk about this Thursday live instead of two days before Christmas and hang up the phone.
My SO is furious. I'm furious. It's no longer a nice quiet day. I try to let it go over the holidays but the anger sits in my stomach like a fruitcake from Big Y. I can't see how I can make it through another year at this place, despite the incredible salary and benefits.
Thursday after Christmas I get into the office and my manager immediately shows up in my office to talk about Visibility, Perception and Politics. I cut him off and say I'm leaving.
"Leaving, what you don't feel well?"
"No, leaving the company."
He takes a step back. I'm sitting in my cube and he's standing in front of me. "Where are you going?" His eyes are really wide.
"Nowhere."
"You don't have another job lined up?"
"No."
"Is it the salary?"
"No."
"It is, isn't it? I could work with HR to see if we could work something out."
"No, it's not. You know what it is." I'm staring at him with my arms across my chest. He's clearly uncomfortable, kind of wavering on his feet, but I feel terrific. I'm thinking: Today's the last day I'm ever going to have to look at you or hear your voice.
He finally manages to say, "You should think about this. Someone your age shouldn't leave your job."
And I said "I know exactly what I'm doing here. Don't worry about me. Worry about replacing me, because you'll need to."
The conversation went a little longer than that but not much. They ended up escorting me out, probably because my manager knew I was angry and I had tons of passwords to critical systems and hey you never know.
I got a much better job a month later. 20% overall comp. package cut but 40% reduction in work and 100% removal of my old manager.
No regrets. I feel obligated to add that it was actually a fine place to work, lots of bright people and interesting technologies. But even decent jobs become intolerable when you're working under a toxic egomaniac workaholic inhuman prick.
One of the things I'm now fond of saying is that people usually don't leave their jobs. They leave their managers.
Alright, we need a quitting story to reset things. This one's from 1998, and it's not mine, although I did witness it at close range.For more of this excellent storytelling, wander over to @nippycrisp’s journal, all.
My first real job was at a massive telemarketing company, trying (mostly unsuccessfully) to sell mail meters to businesses. After being trained to read the script, new telemarketers were held in a special area until we made a sale. This story is about Kwame, the sales runt of our litter.
Kwame’s Final Song
For every success in telemarketer hell there were hundreds of quiet disappointments. And with mounting failure came more unwanted attention from management. New employees that failed to convert their first score quickly began to feel the pressure to lose their sales virginity. The last holdout from our cohort was Kwame. Kwame was a nice guy, but a little too much ADD to hold down a sales job.
After two weeks without a single sale, Kwame was put back in training. When he came back, his calls were monitored by Marlene, the morbidly obese supervisor responsible for indoctrinating new hires. Often times, Marlene would sit next to Kwame, listening in on his calls - this is common in telemarketing, and the main reason phone salesmen don't easily quit - on a duplicate headset. As Kwame tried to work off the script, Marlene would whisper mostly-useless advice at him. Predictably, Kwame couldn’t handle juggling the script, a phone conversation and Marlene’s frantic wisdom (“Make them commit!”). As a result, his pitches grew ever more feeble and his sales remained unrealized.
After two more weeks of failure, it stood to reason that Kwame was not far from being put to pasture. It is surprising then, that his end came unexpectedly, and with more dignity than one might imagine.
For space reasons, Kwame had been released into the general population. On this particular day, he was sitting in the cubicle next to me. By now, Marlene had given up on live-coaching him, and had retreated to her office, where there was a TV that she used to watch her soaps. The theme of this day’s call list seemed to be sports-related businesses. Midway through the shift, Kwame drew a sports memorabilia shop. After making his halfhearted pitch unsuccessfully, Kwame brightened and asked if this year’s Topps Platinum Series MLB cards had arrived yet. What transpired next was a stunning example of reverse-telemarketing. Within minutes, the shop owner had apparently sweet-talked Kwame into buying something**.
There was one wrinkle, though: Kwame’s call was being monitored. Marlene the Manager had been listening, and she raced out from the back just as Kwame began reading off his credit card info into the phone. Marlene moved to intercept, but her pillowy body was too wide to fit down the narrow aisle of back-to-back telemarketers. You could hear the squishy collisions grow louder as she bounce-brushed hapless workers on her authority-fueled charge.
“Hang up the phone, Kwame!” Marlene commanded, eyes blazing as she plodded towards him. Kwame’s gaze traveled between Marlene, the credit card already in hand, and the rows of phone drones mumbling into their headsets around him. By the time he refocused on Marlene, it was clear he’d made a tactical decision to continue the transaction. Without saying a word, he ignored the supervisor’s imperative and continued feeding his credit card info into the phone.
Marlene verbally fired Kwame one second later. He nodded understandingly and put up a finger, asking for silence to complete his final transaction (for the record, this left his lifetime sales total with Marketing Solutions at an impressive minus one). Marlene, apparently drunk on the tiny amount of power she wielded, decided to escalate the situation, again ordering Kwame to hang up, and adding that he needed to pack up his shit immediately. Kwame took this with surprising equanimity, raising his voice only enough to be heard over the irate supervisor.
By this point, the altercation has attracted a crowd of interested onlookers. With Marlene so spectacularly deployed, everyone knew that the gestapo wasn't listening in. As a result, work ground to a halt as four-hundred depressed telemarketers watched the unfolding show. And what a show it was. Marlene was apoplectic, cursing out Kwame. For his part, Kwame was struggling to complete his purchase over her histrionics, and was simultaneously screaming his credit card information into the phone for all to hear.
In a perfect storm moment, Marlene dropped the N-word at exactly the same time Kwame’s credit card was declined. The mercurial Kwame finally exploded, splitting his fire between Marlene, the poor store owner, and Mastercard. After a furious minute of back-and-forth, Kwame rose and proceeded to leap on top of his swivel chair. “Fuck you!” he screamed into the phone. “Fuck you!” he repeated as he threw the phone's receiver at Marlene. The handset reached the end of its cord and jerked backwards with only centimeters to spare before striking Marlene between the eyes. Marlene pinwheeled backwards, jiggling mightily before dropping into what appeared to be a modified judo stance. “And fuck you!” Kwame added, jabbing a finger towards the small group of managers who’d appeared in response to the ruckus. Kwame rotated violently in my direction and leveled a finger at me. I flinched in anticipating of some overflow anger, readying myself to defend against a possible flip-kick.
At the last second, Mount Kwame became dormant. “You’re all cool,” he announced to the shocked crowd in a softer voice. Momentum spent, he hopped off the chair and headed for the front door, the last time any of us ever saw him.
For those interested in life at this place during the last wave of telemarketing, this is part of a larger story I wrote here: https://www.ofmiceandmolecules.com/the-last-telemarketer.html (https://www.ofmiceandmolecules.com/the-last-telemarketer.html)
**These were early internet days where this sort of thing still happened.
ETA: Kwame's FU Money status was unknown, but he drove a Huffy, so his expenses were low.
I'm finally back on my desktop so I can repost Dr. Doom's FU Money story, posted way back in 2014:Dr Doom is still my all-time favorite blog.
I walked out of the highest paying job of my life at the tail end of 2006, IT work for a big financial company. (Completely transparent hint: VWELX without the V)
I'd been there about three and a half years. First two years were good because I had a decent manager who showed signs of being a real human being once in a while.
Third year, I get a new manager, and he's a total Fbag. He had his last name on his license plate. Guys on his team instantly began working 65+ hours a week instead of an already demanding 50ish. The company paid really well so I stuck with it. It's only work, right?
Wrong. He started calling all of his guys on home phones, cell phones, etc. to discuss any issues he could think of at any time. I started to think of him as a terrorist because you never knew when the next attack was coming. He would frame the calls in the guise of "production support" because part of our role was to provide after-hours support for systems and services that needed to be available. But many of the topics were not directly related to outages and were really just beatings. He was a micromanager, a control-freak, and a grade-A douche who hid his insecurity behind his overbearing and driven public persona. God help his children.
The final straw came when I got a call on Sunday Dec 23rd in 2006. We had an outage on Saturday and I'd been involved in fixing it. My girlfriend (now wife) was helping me decorate a small, pathetic looking christmas tree. We were trying to put work behind us and enjoy one quiet day to ourselves, without any office nonsense, prior to the upcoming week, which was going to be full of family visits and travel. Just one goddamn quiet day, you know?
I pick up the phone and he starts complaining about the work I did the previous day, Saturday. (Saturday mind, you -- work I put in on a non-standard day. I should also add it was the 6th Saturday in a row that I'd worked. This was fairly typical for the job.) He says I need to remember to "fall on my sword" as soon as I get back to the office on Dec 26th -- tell everyone that the Saturday problem was my fault and I'm taking the proper long term corrective actions to resolve it. (The problem wasn't actually my fault but he wanted me to take responsibility for it anyway.)
I remind him it's Sunday, and we're coming up on Christmas, and ask if there's any current problem that needs to be resolved. (I'm really asking: are any systems down? Is there any business related reason for this call or is this just a friendly Sunday afternoon beating?) He says yes, the problem is we have too many outages and the perception of the team is negative. I tell him we should talk about this Thursday live instead of two days before Christmas and hang up the phone.
My SO is furious. I'm furious. It's no longer a nice quiet day. I try to let it go over the holidays but the anger sits in my stomach like a fruitcake from Big Y. I can't see how I can make it through another year at this place, despite the incredible salary and benefits.
Thursday after Christmas I get into the office and my manager immediately shows up in my office to talk about Visibility, Perception and Politics. I cut him off and say I'm leaving.
"Leaving, what you don't feel well?"
"No, leaving the company."
He takes a step back. I'm sitting in my cube and he's standing in front of me. "Where are you going?" His eyes are really wide.
"Nowhere."
"You don't have another job lined up?"
"No."
"Is it the salary?"
"No."
"It is, isn't it? I could work with HR to see if we could work something out."
"No, it's not. You know what it is." I'm staring at him with my arms across my chest. He's clearly uncomfortable, kind of wavering on his feet, but I feel terrific. I'm thinking: Today's the last day I'm ever going to have to look at you or hear your voice.
He finally manages to say, "You should think about this. Someone your age shouldn't leave your job."
And I said "I know exactly what I'm doing here. Don't worry about me. Worry about replacing me, because you'll need to."
The conversation went a little longer than that but not much. They ended up escorting me out, probably because my manager knew I was angry and I had tons of passwords to critical systems and hey you never know.
I got a much better job a month later. 20% overall comp. package cut but 40% reduction in work and 100% removal of my old manager.
No regrets. I feel obligated to add that it was actually a fine place to work, lots of bright people and interesting technologies. But even decent jobs become intolerable when you're working under a toxic egomaniac workaholic inhuman prick.
One of the things I'm now fond of saying is that people usually don't leave their jobs. They leave their managers.
I'm finally back on my desktop so I can repost Dr. Doom's FU Money story, posted way back in 2014:
.....
Alright, we need a quitting story to reset things. This one's from 1998, and it's not mine, although I did witness it at close range.
My first real job was at a massive telemarketing company, trying (mostly unsuccessfully) to sell mail meters to businesses. After being trained to read the script, new telemarketers were held in a special area until we made a sale. This story is about Kwame, the sales runt of our litter.
Kwame’s Final Song
I have only one question:LOL
What the hell is a mail meter?
I have something like a medieval mill in front of my eyes, but instead of water it's mail and instead of a grinding stone there is a chalk mark for every X amount of mail flowing down the wheel.
No offense, but if we don't know what "mail meter" means, what are the odds that "franking[?!] machine" is going to help us much? :-)I have only one question:LOL
What the hell is a mail meter?
I have something like a medieval mill in front of my eyes, but instead of water it's mail and instead of a grinding stone there is a chalk mark for every X amount of mail flowing down the wheel.
I think it's a franking machine.
Sorry, I figured it was just an American vs. British term, not that people wouldn't know what it is. And since I was replying to Lennstar (who is German) and the German word for that device is almost the same (Frankiermaschine), I figured he would understand.No offense, but if we don't know what "mail meter" means, what are the odds that "franking[?!] machine" is going to help us much? :-)I have only one question:LOL
What the hell is a mail meter?
I have something like a medieval mill in front of my eyes, but instead of water it's mail and instead of a grinding stone there is a chalk mark for every X amount of mail flowing down the wheel.
I think it's a franking machine.
Mr. Google says it's a "postage meter", which is to say a special printer that prints metered postage on outgoing mail:
https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-a-Postage-meter#:~:text=Postage%20Meters%20are%20postage%20printing,the%20actual%20date%20of%20mailing.
I'm not German, and I got it, but maybe it's because I'm old. I even remember when Pitney Bowes was a common first job out of college sales job.Sorry, I figured it was just an American vs. British term, not that people wouldn't know what it is. And since I was replying to Lennstar (who is German) and the German word for that device is almost the same (Frankiermaschine), I figured he would understand.No offense, but if we don't know what "mail meter" means, what are the odds that "franking[?!] machine" is going to help us much? :-)I have only one question:LOL
What the hell is a mail meter?
I have something like a medieval mill in front of my eyes, but instead of water it's mail and instead of a grinding stone there is a chalk mark for every X amount of mail flowing down the wheel.
I think it's a franking machine.
Mr. Google says it's a "postage meter", which is to say a special printer that prints metered postage on outgoing mail:
https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-a-Postage-meter#:~:text=Postage%20Meters%20are%20postage%20printing,the%20actual%20date%20of%20mailing.
Ah, no worries. I'm from the USA, and I'd never heard the term "franking" before. I'm familiar with the postage-meter concept, just not all the names for it. As @Dicey mentioned, "Pitney Bowes" used to be the household name for that sort of thing here.Sorry, I figured it was just an American vs. British term, not that people wouldn't know what it is. And since I was replying to Lennstar (who is German) and the German word for that device is almost the same (Frankiermaschine), I figured he would understand.No offense, but if we don't know what "mail meter" means, what are the odds that "franking[?!] machine" is going to help us much? :-)I have only one question:LOL
What the hell is a mail meter?
I have something like a medieval mill in front of my eyes, but instead of water it's mail and instead of a grinding stone there is a chalk mark for every X amount of mail flowing down the wheel.
I think it's a franking machine.
Mr. Google says it's a "postage meter", which is to say a special printer that prints metered postage on outgoing mail:
https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-a-Postage-meter#:~:text=Postage%20Meters%20are%20postage%20printing,the%20actual%20date%20of%20mailing.
The biggest $ FU money story of all time:Bye Felicia
https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/tesla-elon-musk-california-texas
The biggest $ FU money story of all time:Bye Felicia
https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/tesla-elon-musk-california-texas
Fellow Californian, laughing right along with you...The biggest $ FU money story of all time:Bye Felicia
https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/tesla-elon-musk-california-texas
Sorry, I figured it was just an American vs. British term, not that people wouldn't know what it is. And since I was replying to Lennstar (who is German) and the German word for that device is almost the same (Frankiermaschine), I figured he would understand.No offense, but if we don't know what "mail meter" means, what are the odds that "franking[?!] machine" is going to help us much? :-)I have only one question:LOL
What the hell is a mail meter?
I have something like a medieval mill in front of my eyes, but instead of water it's mail and instead of a grinding stone there is a chalk mark for every X amount of mail flowing down the wheel.
I think it's a franking machine.
Mr. Google says it's a "postage meter", which is to say a special printer that prints metered postage on outgoing mail:
https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-a-Postage-meter#:~:text=Postage%20Meters%20are%20postage%20printing,the%20actual%20date%20of%20mailing.
Fellow Californian, laughing right along with you...The biggest $ FU money story of all time:Bye Felicia
https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/tesla-elon-musk-california-texas
Fellow Californian, laughing right along with you...The biggest $ FU money story of all time:Bye Felicia
https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/tesla-elon-musk-california-texas
Yeah, I don't know why people think this is such a great thing, because now Elon Musk has to live in Texas. Ew.
I love that. Telemarketing is such a crazy job. In college I worked a short stint on the phones and at our office, everyone was either a college kid or an alcoholic with nowhere else to work. When I decided to quit I just stopped showing up and nobody ever called or checked up on me, I just stopped getting checks. I imagine most places are a revolving door.
If you are as rich as Musk you more or less have your own small country surrounding you and it will be much the same wherever you are.Fellow Californian, laughing right along with you...The biggest $ FU money story of all time:Bye Felicia
https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/tesla-elon-musk-california-texas
Yeah, I don't know why people think this is such a great thing, because now Elon Musk has to live in Texas. Ew.
Can confirm. Live in Texas. The tax savings are very much a 'you get what you pay for' kind of situation.
If you are as rich as Musk you more or less have your own small country surrounding you and it will be much the same wherever you are.Fellow Californian, laughing right along with you...The biggest $ FU money story of all time:Bye Felicia
https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/tesla-elon-musk-california-texas
Yeah, I don't know why people think this is such a great thing, because now Elon Musk has to live in Texas. Ew.
Can confirm. Live in Texas. The tax savings are very much a 'you get what you pay for' kind of situation.
If you are as rich as Musk you more or less have your own small country surrounding you and it will be much the same wherever you are.Fellow Californian, laughing right along with you...The biggest $ FU money story of all time:Bye Felicia
https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/tesla-elon-musk-california-texas
Yeah, I don't know why people think this is such a great thing, because now Elon Musk has to live in Texas. Ew.
Can confirm. Live in Texas. The tax savings are very much a 'you get what you pay for' kind of situation.
Which only further begs the question that if you can live anywhere, why would you live in a shitty climate like Texas?
If you are as rich as Musk you more or less have your own small country surrounding you and it will be much the same wherever you are.Fellow Californian, laughing right along with you...The biggest $ FU money story of all time:Bye Felicia
https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/tesla-elon-musk-california-texas
Yeah, I don't know why people think this is such a great thing, because now Elon Musk has to live in Texas. Ew.
Can confirm. Live in Texas. The tax savings are very much a 'you get what you pay for' kind of situation.
Which only further begs the question that if you can live anywhere, why would you live in a shitty climate like Texas?
Because Texas is probably going to leave him alone and do whatever he wants. Regardless if it's a good idea or not.
If you are as rich as Musk you more or less have your own small country surrounding you and it will be much the same wherever you are.Fellow Californian, laughing right along with you...The biggest $ FU money story of all time:Bye Felicia
https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/tesla-elon-musk-california-texas
Yeah, I don't know why people think this is such a great thing, because now Elon Musk has to live in Texas. Ew.
Can confirm. Live in Texas. The tax savings are very much a 'you get what you pay for' kind of situation.
Which only further begs the question that if you can live anywhere, why would you live in a shitty climate like Texas?
LOL.
Just got back inside after a brisk masked 45 minute stroll in my backyard. Tromping a lovely figure 8 of sorts there due to personal quarantine. Clear blue skies, 76 degrees F, the gentlest of breezes rustling the leaves. Terrible climate. Terrible!
Yeah, about 5-10 years ago my old boss and a different friend were trying to lure me to Dallas. It was summer. Hard no thanks.LOL.
Just got back inside after a brisk masked 45 minute stroll in my backyard. Tromping a lovely figure 8 of sorts there due to personal quarantine. Clear blue skies, 76 degrees F, the gentlest of breezes rustling the leaves. Terrible climate. Terrible!
Agree. Beautiful day in Big D as well, 78 right now. T-shirt and shorts, multiple walks with the dog outside, not to mention "working" from the patio.
Don't ask about August, though.
I lived in Houston for 20 years. Hot and humid as balls and it rained at least once a day.
Lived in San Antonio for about 4 years. Hot as balls.
Currently live in Dallas and I've been here for about 10 years. hottest balls and then it also gets ridiculously cold sometimes.
Don't let a handful of days this time of year and like a week in April fool you. The climate here is shit and I stand by that statement.
Ok, now you've really lost any and all credibility. Let someone from the Midwest or Northeast chime in and tell you what ridiculously cold actually means.
It was late December of 2007. The City of Lansing, MI had just run out of salt for the roads, with no end to winter in sight. I got a call from a recruiter - "we have a position open on a project with the Florida Department of Children and Families." I didn't have much money, but I had some. That tiny pile of FU money gave me just enough of a sense of security to give my notice and take the new job in the warmer climate - started January 8th if I recall correctly.Ok, now you've really lost any and all credibility. Let someone from the Midwest or Northeast chime in and tell you what ridiculously cold actually means.
Let's not. Can we get back on topic?
It was late December of 2007. The City of Lansing, MI had just run out of salt for the roads, with no end to winter in sight. I got a call from a recruiter - "we have a position open on a project with the Florida Department of Children and Families." I didn't have much money, but I had some. That tiny pile of FU money gave me just enough of a sense of security to give my notice and take the new job in the warmer climate - started January 8th if I recall correctly.Ok, now you've really lost any and all credibility. Let someone from the Midwest or Northeast chime in and tell you what ridiculously cold actually means.
Let's not. Can we get back on topic?
Close enough?
Ok, now you've really lost any and all credibility. Let someone from the Midwest or Northeast chime in and tell you what ridiculously cold actually means.
Let's not. Can we get back on topic?
-55F might be where the orange paint peals off the black boxes.You win the Jackpot.
then eventually the side gig became profitable enough that they quit their day jobs.
That might be the reason right there!
Holding someone back to force loyalty. Not really the person I would want to work for.
-55F might be where the orange paint peals off the black boxes.Is there a ringing sound when that happens?
The fact that I have enough money now for leanFIRE is...increasingly turning me into a loose cannon at work, it seems. (Might lead to an epic story eventually. For now, I give you an anecdote.)
A few weeks ago I had a brilliant realization that I don't think would ever have come to me back in the days when I was more concerned about holding onto my job. Context: The nameplates on our office doors consist of a plastic holder with a slip of paper, your name and title printed on it. Normally Facilities staff come swap out the paper when an office is reassigned or a title changes.
But it's just a piece of paper. Eminently self-replaceable...
And - my job title is so boring. Hardly an incentive to continue OMY'ing, though my employer knows not that this is what I am doing. But really, for my employer's own good, clearly my boring title is a morale / staff retention issue that needs to be addressed (she says virtuously).
Thought led to action within the hour, and thus...my new job title was born.
So far no one's noticed the change except a few people I pointed it out to, who found it hilarious. I bet I can go literally years without anyone noticing on their own, especially since I retained the first couple of words from my official title. You'd have to keep reading to notice, and who does that? (I guess I will find out!)
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.
I'd hire you for that job in a heartbeat. Oh, wait...I'm FIRE.The fact that I have enough money now for leanFIRE is...increasingly turning me into a loose cannon at work, it seems. (Might lead to an epic story eventually. For now, I give you an anecdote.)
A few weeks ago I had a brilliant realization that I don't think would ever have come to me back in the days when I was more concerned about holding onto my job. Context: The nameplates on our office doors consist of a plastic holder with a slip of paper, your name and title printed on it. Normally Facilities staff come swap out the paper when an office is reassigned or a title changes.
But it's just a piece of paper. Eminently self-replaceable...
And - my job title is so boring. Hardly an incentive to continue OMY'ing, though my employer knows not that this is what I am doing. But really, for my employer's own good, clearly my boring title is a morale / staff retention issue that needs to be addressed (she says virtuously).
Thought led to action within the hour, and thus...my new job title was born.
So far no one's noticed the change except a few people I pointed it out to, who found it hilarious. I bet I can go literally years without anyone noticing on their own, especially since I retained the first couple of words from my official title. You'd have to keep reading to notice, and who does that? (I guess I will find out!)
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.
Got any openings for Team Coordinator for Rainbow Sparkles?
then eventually the side gig became profitable enough that they quit their day jobs.
That might be the reason right there!
Holding someone back to force loyalty. Not really the person I would want to work for.
I used to think of this as salaried employees should be giving all their brain CPU cycles to the company. Now that I have a life outside of my job, I no longer feel that way (for me), but I've seen enough people abuse their positions and "double dip" by doing outside work on company time that it still makes me leery. And for a salaried employee, what exactly is "company time" vs. non-company time? Most of my great ideas come to me at 4:30 am or in the shower in the morning.
Then again, I just came to the conclusion that I've spent my entire life anxious about work --- even when I'm completely prepared and ready for anything, I'm still stressed and anxious.
Anyway, FU money means I no longer care about this and people can do whatever they want.
The fact that I have enough money now for leanFIRE is...increasingly turning me into a loose cannon at work, it seems. (Might lead to an epic story eventually. For now, I give you an anecdote.)
A few weeks ago I had a brilliant realization that I don't think would ever have come to me back in the days when I was more concerned about holding onto my job. Context: The nameplates on our office doors consist of a plastic holder with a slip of paper, your name and title printed on it. Normally Facilities staff come swap out the paper when an office is reassigned or a title changes.
But it's just a piece of paper. Eminently self-replaceable...
And - my job title is so boring. Hardly an incentive to continue OMY'ing, though my employer knows not that this is what I am doing. But really, for my employer's own good, clearly my boring title is a morale / staff retention issue that needs to be addressed.
Thought led to action within the hour, and thus...my new job title was born.
So far no one's noticed the change except a few people I pointed it out to, who found it hilarious. I bet I can go literally years without anyone noticing on their own, especially since I retained the first couple of words from my official title. You'd have to keep reading to notice, and who does that? (I guess I will find out!)
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.
The fact that I have enough money now for leanFIRE is...increasingly turning me into a loose cannon at work, it seems. (Might lead to an epic story eventually. For now, I give you an anecdote.)
A few weeks ago I had a brilliant realization that I don't think would ever have come to me back in the days when I was more concerned about holding onto my job. Context: The nameplates on our office doors consist of a plastic holder with a slip of paper, your name and title printed on it. Normally Facilities staff come swap out the paper when an office is reassigned or a title changes.
But it's just a piece of paper. Eminently self-replaceable...
And - my job title is so boring. Hardly an incentive to continue OMY'ing, though my employer knows not that this is what I am doing. But really, for my employer's own good, clearly my boring title is a morale / staff retention issue that needs to be addressed (she says virtuously).
Thought led to action within the hour, and thus...my new job title was born.
So far no one's noticed the change except a few people I pointed it out to, who found it hilarious. I bet I can go literally years without anyone noticing on their own, especially since I retained the first couple of words from my official title. You'd have to keep reading to notice, and who does that? (I guess I will find out!)
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.
Got any openings for Team Coordinator for Rainbow Sparkles?
Thought led to action within the hour, and thus...my new job title was born.
[...]
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.
@Dicey for you, this sparkle specialist will always work for free ;)Awww, but instead of working, let's play together instead. After the pandemic, of course.
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.
That is hilarious.... The sad part is that most people are so burned out on buzzwords and business speak that they will assume it's just an obscure code or new phrase and will not question it as they don't want to appear out of the loop....
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.
That is hilarious.... The sad part is that most people are so burned out on buzzwords and business speak that they will assume it's just an obscure code or new phrase and will not question it as they don't want to appear out of the loop....
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.
That is hilarious.... The sad part is that most people are so burned out on buzzwords and business speak that they will assume it's just an obscure code or new phrase and will not question it as they don't want to appear out of the loop....
I bet people assume it is a variation on "agile" , I mean if you can have a scrum leader, the idea of Dragons dropping Pixiedust isn't that farfetched.
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.Sound cool to me! You certainly don't want to be without one when a Dragon turns up spraying Pixiedust everywhere.
So far no one's noticed the change except a few people I pointed it out to, who found it hilarious. I bet I can go literally years without anyone noticing on their own, especially since I retained the first couple of words from my official title. You'd have to keep reading to notice, and who does that? (I guess I will find out!)This jogged a memory from a dark time in my career.
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.
So far no one's noticed the change except a few people I pointed it out to, who found it hilarious. I bet I can go literally years without anyone noticing on their own, especially since I retained the first couple of words from my official title. You'd have to keep reading to notice, and who does that? (I guess I will find out!)This jogged a memory from a dark time in my career.
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.
In my early 20's I worked a tech job in a fairly toxic environment where a lot of money was being thrown around. I changed the nameplate on the wall of my cubicle to say "BOLO" (be on the lookout). Below that I had the quote "Status is buying things you can't afford to impress people you don't even like." I was pretty bitter. Lol
No one ever said anything.
I once attended an accounting class by a guy who used to run a bank. He started out in tech support, more or less, during the early computer days when the "computer department" generated reports because no one else had computers.Wow, real life TPS reports.
When he became department head, there were 150 reports generated for the company. His first act was to stop sending them. His plan was to permanently cancel any report that no one requested during the next 90 days. Half of the reports died.
He didn't have to leave his job to say FU to unnecessary work!
Ours was called "Project Tracking System" - PTS - at large mutual insurance company I worked for out of college. My direct boss back then had a striking resemblance to Milton.I once attended an accounting class by a guy who used to run a bank. He started out in tech support, more or less, during the early computer days when the "computer department" generated reports because no one else had computers.Wow, real life TPS reports.
When he became department head, there were 150 reports generated for the company. His first act was to stop sending them. His plan was to permanently cancel any report that no one requested during the next 90 days. Half of the reports died.
He didn't have to leave his job to say FU to unnecessary work!
Oh god, the meaningless reports.
I took a manager position at a test laboratory and I got this stack of reports delivered to my desk on weekly metrics. You can imagine that with a department of engineers and a lot of repetitive tests you can generate an almost unlimited number of reports. I had the guy in charge sit down and explain them all to me and realized that most were legacy things for an odd-duck manager who had been retired for years but had ruled with such an iron first that a lot of his nonsense policies were still in place. I took pleasure in first axing the dead tree weekly ritual and then working with my counterpart leading a sister lab to pare down the reports to only those that were actually meaningful.
It feels sacrilegious as an engineer to say no to more data and graphs but there really is a thing as too much.
Same company, different job, my name plate was under a small section of the cubicle farm titled “Entropy Studies”.
I used to work for a Dutch multi-national shipping firm. One of the megacorporation companies had a business deal where they prepared a report, then went thru a manual ritual to confirm that their printed report matched their business partner's printed report. It gets better. The business partner company was purchased by the megacorporation and then they were migrated to work off the exact same database.
And, you guessed it, they still met to manually confirm that their printed reports matched! Took them years before someone figured it out!
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.Did you get that from a book or so? I am quite sure I read (very similar) that before somewhere. Sounds like something Terry Pratchett would put onto his door when he was still PR guy for an atomic power plant. But I don't think it's from there.
Only a small story.. I am a senior manager at a small sized company and usually swan around in the office pretending to be a SWAMI. One day the company owner said to me “Don’t get me wrong, but you don’t work over-time”. I replied “Don’t get me wrong, but I have a life”.
I do a very specialized job at the firm and am a major fee earner for the company. The owner wanted to hire a guy from outside the industry to become the general manager to alleviate his work load. Anyway, I laughed and said “I will not accept a manager who is going to tell me how I will do my job. I will stick a note on my door stating ‘No talk. No touch. No eye contact”.
General manager from outside the industry is hired and starts overseeing the entire company but me to his great annoyance. I report directly to the owner of the company when and if necessary, but usually am doing my own thing solving complex client problems and taking care of internal company issues. General manager tried to boss me around, but I shut him down immediately politely and professionally. Being a pretend SWAMI rocks..I will act for the good of the company only and disregard office politics. Just 3 years more of being pretend SWAMI..then I will be the real thing.
Hmm. Now that I think on it, it may have been partially inspired by the Head Bug Wrangler title that Kareen Koudelka snags instead of lab assistant in A Civil Campaign...
FU money moment: One day before vacation, learn that I have a new "interim" boss in the monthly revolving door that is management. Then that afternoon, email says that new boss wishes to meet *later* that afternoon. Then in the evening, new boss texts me several more times to meet. Did not reply. The last thing I needed was some seed of concern planted in my mind right before vacation by my interim boss! Thx, FU money!
I used to work for a Dutch multi-national shipping firm. One of the megacorporation companies had a business deal where they prepared a report, then went thru a manual ritual to confirm that their printed report matched their business partner's printed report. It gets better. The business partner company was purchased by the megacorporation and then they were migrated to work off the exact same database.
And, you guessed it, they still met to manually confirm that their printed reports matched! Took them years before someone figured it out!
My company transferred me from TX to NC to be a Sr Security Engineer in our SOC. I also agreed to be an escalation point for the NOC since I also have a ton of networking experience and years of experience in an older technology that the company makes a ton of money supporting. I was soon doing only NOC things and not security, and I let it go on far too long. I finally had enough and last February, I set a meeting with my boss. I told him that I was not transferred here to be a network engineer, I agreed to be a security engineer. It's not like I am asking to do something the company does not need, nor am I asking to be moved to a position that I am not qualified for. He started to give me the needs of the company speech. I replied with "I've been with this company for 5 years in 3 roles across two states, I have a lot of institutional knowledge about our company and our customers. I also will do security engineering, you just need to decide if I do it for this company or another one."
Suddenly, the needs of the company changed and I have been extremely happy in my security role.
My company transferred me from TX to NC to be a Sr Security Engineer in our SOC. I also agreed to be an escalation point for the NOC since I also have a ton of networking experience and years of experience in an older technology that the company makes a ton of money supporting. I was soon doing only NOC things and not security, and I let it go on far too long. I finally had enough and last February, I set a meeting with my boss. I told him that I was not transferred here to be a network engineer, I agreed to be a security engineer. It's not like I am asking to do something the company does not need, nor am I asking to be moved to a position that I am not qualified for. He started to give me the needs of the company speech. I replied with "I've been with this company for 5 years in 3 roles across two states, I have a lot of institutional knowledge about our company and our customers. I also will do security engineering, you just need to decide if I do it for this company or another one."
Suddenly, the needs of the company changed and I have been extremely happy in my security role.
"you just need to decide if I do it for this company or another one."Wow, that's putting it rather pleasingly bluntly. Did you say it in those words? :D
My company transferred me from TX to NC to be a Sr Security Engineer in our SOC. I also agreed to be an escalation point for the NOC since I also have a ton of networking experience and years of experience in an older technology that the company makes a ton of money supporting. I was soon doing only NOC things and not security, and I let it go on far too long. I finally had enough and last February, I set a meeting with my boss. I told him that I was not transferred here to be a network engineer, I agreed to be a security engineer. It's not like I am asking to do something the company does not need, nor am I asking to be moved to a position that I am not qualified for. He started to give me the needs of the company speech. I replied with "I've been with this company for 5 years in 3 roles across two states, I have a lot of institutional knowledge about our company and our customers. I also will do security engineering, you just need to decide if I do it for this company or another one."
Suddenly, the needs of the company changed and I have been extremely happy in my security role.
then eventually the side gig became profitable enough that they quit their day jobs.
That might be the reason right there!
Holding someone back to force loyalty. Not really the person I would want to work for.
I used to think of this as salaried employees should be giving all their brain CPU cycles to the company. Now that I have a life outside of my job, I no longer feel that way (for me), but I've seen enough people abuse their positions and "double dip" by doing outside work on company time that it still makes me leery. And for a salaried employee, what exactly is "company time" vs. non-company time? Most of my great ideas come to me at 4:30 am or in the shower in the morning.
Then again, I just came to the conclusion that I've spent my entire life anxious about work --- even when I'm completely prepared and ready for anything, I'm still stressed and anxious.
Anyway, FU money means I no longer care about this and people can do whatever they want.
I think it is enough if I give my 40 hours per week as average of my brainpower to the company. That is what they pay me. Some weeks it is less and some weeks it is more. My brain is unfortunately sometimes unable to shut off and steals a bit more brainpower. Because I have flexible workhours I don’t see it as as problem to do personal things during a workday, but I would not double dip.
I have never felt that I can’t express my opinion at a workplace but I also realize I care less about company bs the more money I have.
The difference between billing rate and salary should be understood well before acting out something like this. There are people in the office whose work supports your efforts, but are considered indirect costs. Your charge rate must cover their salaries. It also has to cover the cost of equipment, facilities, fringe for all workers, etc.then eventually the side gig became profitable enough that they quit their day jobs.
That might be the reason right there!
Holding someone back to force loyalty. Not really the person I would want to work for.
I used to think of this as salaried employees should be giving all their brain CPU cycles to the company. Now that I have a life outside of my job, I no longer feel that way (for me), but I've seen enough people abuse their positions and "double dip" by doing outside work on company time that it still makes me leery. And for a salaried employee, what exactly is "company time" vs. non-company time? Most of my great ideas come to me at 4:30 am or in the shower in the morning.
Then again, I just came to the conclusion that I've spent my entire life anxious about work --- even when I'm completely prepared and ready for anything, I'm still stressed and anxious.
Anyway, FU money means I no longer care about this and people can do whatever they want.
I think it is enough if I give my 40 hours per week as average of my brainpower to the company. That is what they pay me. Some weeks it is less and some weeks it is more. My brain is unfortunately sometimes unable to shut off and steals a bit more brainpower. Because I have flexible workhours I don’t see it as as problem to do personal things during a workday, but I would not double dip.
I have never felt that I can’t express my opinion at a workplace but I also realize I care less about company bs the more money I have.
When I was an employee I was only paid about 1/8 of what I billed so I figured it was only fair that I put in about 50% effort to the company (in fact, it should have been 12.5% effort but that low amount of effort would have gotten me fired). Otherwise I would take sick days, moonlight, do contract work for other clients (as long as there was no conflict) without telling my employer, etc
I wasn't paid enough to care. And the advantage of having, even at that time, a decent stash was that I wasn't afraid to be mercenary.
I still liked my work and my colleagues, for it wasn't their fault, but I was just indifferent to my employer as an entity.
I wouldn't expect any employee to care much, unless that employee was paid miraculously well, or was actually rather incompetent and therefore the job represented a bit of a charity drive.
The difference between billing rate and salary should be understood well before acting out something like this. There are people in the office whose work supports your efforts, but are considered indirect costs. Your charge rate must cover their salaries. It also has to cover the cost of equipment, facilities, fringe for all workers, etc.
If you truly respected your colleagues, you wouldn't approach this as a transaction that can be understood unless you know the overhead rates of your company.
The difference between billing rate and salary should be understood well before acting out something like this. There are people in the office whose work supports your efforts, but are considered indirect costs. Your charge rate must cover their salaries. It also has to cover the cost of equipment, facilities, fringe for all workers, etc.
If you truly respected your colleagues, you wouldn't approach this as a transaction that can be understood unless you know the overhead rates of your company.
This. I hear people often who see the top line and think that's the bottom line. 'They charge X but it only costs Y to make', and don't realize how many other things there are in between.
The difference between billing rate and salary should be understood well before acting out something like this. There are people in the office whose work supports your efforts, but are considered indirect costs. Your charge rate must cover their salaries. It also has to cover the cost of equipment, facilities, fringe for all workers, etc.
If you truly respected your colleagues, you wouldn't approach this as a transaction that can be understood unless you know the overhead rates of your company.
A supervisor called my retirement comment “charming" and made no promises.
Hello inspirational lovelies! I’m a longtime lurker and MMM article reader. I feel like my introduction belongs in the epic FU money story thread.
I’m 40 years old, female, married, no kids. I’m a federal attorney who has mostly hated being an attorney since I became one at 27. Parts of it are ok and I'm good at it, but I fell into a litigator role and going to court has always completely stressed me out. But I’ve been sticking it out because I was interested in the subject matter and I could get the job done in 40 hours a week. I’ve been slowly creeping toward FIRE but also spent a lot on travel adventures in my 30s (which I’m now glad I did while I could pre-covid!).
For the past few years, the work environment has been slowly going downhill, and the quantity of work skyrocketing. The faster I work to keep up, the more bonus work I’m assigned because I’m “efficient.” I’m now routinely up at night stressing about work with no improvements in sight. I started grumbling to my supervisors about burnout and retirement a few months ago. Yesterday I finally said I would consider not retiring soon if they would reassign my court appearances and give me more other work instead. A supervisor called my retirement comment “charming" and made no promises. So I put in my notice today. I’ll work another 2 months to finish up some pending assignments. My last day will be the day before a scheduled court appearance so they’ll have to find someone to cover it after all. My supervisor said she thought I was kidding about the retirement thing and all the big bosses asked if there was anything they could do to change my mind. Sounds like they'd now be happy to let me out of the court appearances. Nah, that's ok.
I was about 2 years away from the slightly-fat FIRE we wanted (not counting my deferred pension, which will just be bonus money when I can start collecting it in 22 years). But my husband is happy to work longer to get us there and he’s truly interested in his career. He'll probably work quite a bit longer even after we reach the FI level we have in mind. I’m excited to handle our cooking and do things to make his life easier. I love cooking. I even enjoy cleaning my house since I like my house and keeping my stuff nice. There are all kinds of jobs I might like to try someday after I recover from burnout. I miss having different temporary jobs where I worked with people who weren't lawyers. But for now, I’m going to wait for a covid vaccine and fulfill my spring gardening dreams. I’m going to build a bamboo trellis and grow peas this year!!!
Well played Dreamer40! Congratulations on your early retirement.
Hello inspirational lovelies! I’m a longtime lurker and MMM article reader. I feel like my introduction belongs in the epic FU money story thread.
I’m 40 years old, female, married, no kids. I’m a federal attorney who has mostly hated being an attorney since I became one at 27. Parts of it are ok and I'm good at it, but I fell into a litigator role and going to court has always completely stressed me out. But I’ve been sticking it out because I was interested in the subject matter and I could get the job done in 40 hours a week. I’ve been slowly creeping toward FIRE but also spent a lot on travel adventures in my 30s (which I’m now glad I did while I could pre-covid!).
For the past few years, the work environment has been slowly going downhill, and the quantity of work skyrocketing. The faster I work to keep up, the more bonus work I’m assigned because I’m “efficient.” I’m now routinely up at night stressing about work with no improvements in sight. I started grumbling to my supervisors about burnout and retirement a few months ago. Yesterday I finally said I would consider not retiring soon if they would reassign my court appearances and give me more other work instead. A supervisor called my retirement comment “charming" and made no promises. So I put in my notice today. I’ll work another 2 months to finish up some pending assignments. My last day will be the day before a scheduled court appearance so they’ll have to find someone to cover it after all. My supervisor said she thought I was kidding about the retirement thing and all the big bosses asked if there was anything they could do to change my mind. Sounds like they'd now be happy to let me out of the court appearances. Nah, that's ok.
I was about 2 years away from the slightly-fat FIRE we wanted (not counting my deferred pension, which will just be bonus money when I can start collecting it in 22 years). But my husband is happy to work longer to get us there and he’s truly interested in his career. He'll probably work quite a bit longer even after we reach the FI level we have in mind. I’m excited to handle our cooking and do things to make his life easier. I love cooking. I even enjoy cleaning my house since I like my house and keeping my stuff nice. There are all kinds of jobs I might like to try someday after I recover from burnout. I miss having different temporary jobs where I worked with people who weren't lawyers. But for now, I’m going to wait for a covid vaccine and fulfill my spring gardening dreams. I’m going to build a bamboo trellis and grow peas this year!!!
Congratulations Dreamer40! Enjoy your garden and your house!A supervisor called my retirement comment “charming" and made no promises.
In your shoes, that might have made me quit on the spot.
100% of your time is client billable? In law and accounting firms it's more like 50%, and worse for more senior employees.
For the past few years, the work environment has been slowly going downhill, and the quantity of work skyrocketing. The faster I work to keep up, the more bonus work I’m assigned because I’m “efficient.”
For the past few years, the work environment has been slowly going downhill, and the quantity of work skyrocketing. The faster I work to keep up, the more bonus work I’m assigned because I’m “efficient.”
This has been my problem in my career. I am shit on with more work and more complex work because I have the capability to handle it but working for the government means I am only awarded with more work and stress w/o more in pay. Well, I am tired of it all and cant wait for FIRE myself!
Congrats on an EPIC exit to FIRE!!!
For the past few years, the work environment has been slowly going downhill, and the quantity of work skyrocketing. The faster I work to keep up, the more bonus work I’m assigned because I’m “efficient.”
This has been my problem in my career. I am shit on with more work and more complex work because I have the capability to handle it but working for the government means I am only awarded with more work and stress w/o more in pay. Well, I am tired of it all and cant wait for FIRE myself!
Congrats on an EPIC exit to FIRE!!!
For the past few years, the work environment has been slowly going downhill, and the quantity of work skyrocketing. The faster I work to keep up, the more bonus work I’m assigned because I’m “efficient.”
This has been my problem in my career. I am shit on with more work and more complex work because I have the capability to handle it but working for the government means I am only awarded with more work and stress w/o more in pay. Well, I am tired of it all and cant wait for FIRE myself!
Congrats on an EPIC exit to FIRE!!!
Those kinds of work expectations and lack of reward are typical with jobs on Hillbilly Mountain, which is why people have learned not to work hard or try to advance themselves. It's a sad situation.
Most of these stories are understandably work related but another thread reminded me of a time frugality gave me the money to flip the bird to a nonwork problem.
I'd been working full time for just over a year and as I was still living like I had in college I'd stashed a bit of cash. My mother was an alcoholic and my brother and I learned that her house was being foreclosed because she'd been missing payments. After looking at the numbers my brother suggested we combine our savings an buy it from her. Turned out she was too far removed from reality to sign the paperwork, but her small town bank worked with us foreclosing the house and selling it to us the same day. She lived there for the rest of her life and honestly I'm still not sure she understood why her house wasn't foreclosed. Our sisters were not left homeless and when our mother died ~18 months later the sale of the house covered the cost of her funeral, helping them move, and even gave us all a small inheritance. None of that would have been possible if my brother and I hadn't been so frugal before hand.
Most of these stories are understandably work related but another thread reminded me of a time frugality gave me the money to flip the bird to a nonwork problem.
I'd been working full time for just over a year and as I was still living like I had in college I'd stashed a bit of cash. My mother was an alcoholic and my brother and I learned that her house was being foreclosed because she'd been missing payments. After looking at the numbers my brother suggested we combine our savings an buy it from her. Turned out she was too far removed from reality to sign the paperwork, but her small town bank worked with us foreclosing the house and selling it to us the same day. She lived there for the rest of her life and honestly I'm still not sure she understood why her house wasn't foreclosed. Our sisters were not left homeless and when our mother died ~18 months later the sale of the house covered the cost of her funeral, helping them move, and even gave us all a small inheritance. None of that would have been possible if my brother and I hadn't been so frugal before hand.
Most of these stories are understandably work related but another thread reminded me of a time frugality gave me the money to flip the bird to a nonwork problem.
I'd been working full time for just over a year and as I was still living like I had in college I'd stashed a bit of cash. My mother was an alcoholic and my brother and I learned that her house was being foreclosed because she'd been missing payments. After looking at the numbers my brother suggested we combine our savings an buy it from her. Turned out she was too far removed from reality to sign the paperwork, but her small town bank worked with us foreclosing the house and selling it to us the same day. She lived there for the rest of her life and honestly I'm still not sure she understood why her house wasn't foreclosed. Our sisters were not left homeless and when our mother died ~18 months later the sale of the house covered the cost of her funeral, helping them move, and even gave us all a small inheritance. None of that would have been possible if my brother and I hadn't been so frugal before hand.
Yeah, you and your brother and the banker! Well done!
Most of these stories are understandably work related but another thread reminded me of a time frugality gave me the money to flip the bird to a nonwork problem.
I'd been working full time for just over a year and as I was still living like I had in college I'd stashed a bit of cash. My mother was an alcoholic and my brother and I learned that her house was being foreclosed because she'd been missing payments. After looking at the numbers my brother suggested we combine our savings an buy it from her. Turned out she was too far removed from reality to sign the paperwork, but her small town bank worked with us foreclosing the house and selling it to us the same day. She lived there for the rest of her life and honestly I'm still not sure she understood why her house wasn't foreclosed. Our sisters were not left homeless and when our mother died ~18 months later the sale of the house covered the cost of her funeral, helping them move, and even gave us all a small inheritance. None of that would have been possible if my brother and I hadn't been so frugal before hand.
Wow! I think anybody in the world would respect that.
Those are both epic stories, @Alternatepriorities, but, at the same time, I'm kind of scandalized that someone who doesn't have the cognitive capacity to sell her house can still be foreclosed on. In your case, you and your brother were clearly acting in the best interest of your relatives, but it's easy to imagine a similar scenario in which the sons buy the mother's foreclosed house, evict her, and flip it for a quick profit
I'm losing all interest in work and I'm almost to one year away from my RE planned date (was a stretch goal, but it's becoming clear that unless there's a major correction, I can do it quite comfortably).
So I'm looking at moving my RE date earlier, but I'm hesitating and starting to think of all kinds of scenarios to walk away. Most of them are to not say anything other than "need to focus on family".
But today I started thinking that I'd like to tell the Security Officer (holds my clearance) that I plan to start consuming pot.
That's it. Just see what they do with the info. HAHAHA If I travel, I have to give them notice. I really wonder what they would do if I called and said "I plan to start getting high on mm-dd-yyyy." I wonder if they even have any procedure in place or if they would just be like "okay, thanks for letting us know"
I'm losing all interest in work and I'm almost to one year away from my RE planned date (was a stretch goal, but it's becoming clear that unless there's a major correction, I can do it quite comfortably).
So I'm looking at moving my RE date earlier, but I'm hesitating and starting to think of all kinds of scenarios to walk away. Most of them are to not say anything other than "need to focus on family".
But today I started thinking that I'd like to tell the Security Officer (holds my clearance) that I plan to start consuming pot.
That's it. Just see what they do with the info. HAHAHA If I travel, I have to give them notice. I really wonder what they would do if I called and said "I plan to start getting high on mm-dd-yyyy." I wonder if they even have any procedure in place or if they would just be like "okay, thanks for letting us know"
Would highly recommend you don't do anything to get terminated for cause... You never know how it might impact you in the future.
I'm losing all interest in work and I'm almost to one year away from my RE planned date (was a stretch goal, but it's becoming clear that unless there's a major correction, I can do it quite comfortably).
So I'm looking at moving my RE date earlier, but I'm hesitating and starting to think of all kinds of scenarios to walk away. Most of them are to not say anything other than "need to focus on family".
But today I started thinking that I'd like to tell the Security Officer (holds my clearance) that I plan to start consuming pot.
That's it. Just see what they do with the info. HAHAHA If I travel, I have to give them notice. I really wonder what they would do if I called and said "I plan to start getting high on mm-dd-yyyy." I wonder if they even have any procedure in place or if they would just be like "okay, thanks for letting us know"
I'm losing all interest in work and I'm almost to one year away from my RE planned date (was a stretch goal, but it's becoming clear that unless there's a major correction, I can do it quite comfortably).
So I'm looking at moving my RE date earlier, but I'm hesitating and starting to think of all kinds of scenarios to walk away. Most of them are to not say anything other than "need to focus on family".
But today I started thinking that I'd like to tell the Security Officer (holds my clearance) that I plan to start consuming pot.
That's it. Just see what they do with the info. HAHAHA If I travel, I have to give them notice. I really wonder what they would do if I called and said "I plan to start getting high on mm-dd-yyyy." I wonder if they even have any procedure in place or if they would just be like "okay, thanks for letting us know"
I can see that. In a situation where the bank didn't know you and your brother and your mother, hopefully there would have been some mechanism to appoint someone independent to act on behalf of your mother.Those are both epic stories, @Alternatepriorities, but, at the same time, I'm kind of scandalized that someone who doesn't have the cognitive capacity to sell her house can still be foreclosed on. In your case, you and your brother were clearly acting in the best interest of your relatives, but it's easy to imagine a similar scenario in which the sons buy the mother's foreclosed house, evict her, and flip it for a quick profit
Well she hadnt been paying the mortgage in months by that point and didnt have any money to pay it with. I cant really fault the bank for moving to foreclose.
Though even at 25 I knew enough to tell her to pay the mortgage rather than any other debts she had. She wouldnt listen though and it probably would have backfired anyway. Even without a mortgage she was in bankruptcy when she passed. The part I found most scandalous was the number of new credit applications she was receiving while in bankruptcy. A dozen or more arrived in the two weeks between her death and when we cancelled her mail. The bankruptcy was dismissed (not sure of the legal term) after i showed her public aid that she had less that $500 in assets when she died. I never did find out her total debt. Very thankful to live in a time and place where debts are not passed on the children.Scandalous indeed. I hope it was predators like that who got stuck with your mother's debt.
I can see that. In a situation where the bank didn't know you and your brother and your mother, hopefully there would have been some mechanism to appoint someone independent to act on behalf of your mother.Those are both epic stories, @Alternatepriorities, but, at the same time, I'm kind of scandalized that someone who doesn't have the cognitive capacity to sell her house can still be foreclosed on. In your case, you and your brother were clearly acting in the best interest of your relatives, but it's easy to imagine a similar scenario in which the sons buy the mother's foreclosed house, evict her, and flip it for a quick profit
Well she hadn’t been paying the mortgage in months by that point and didn’t have any money to pay it with. I can’t really fault the bank for moving to foreclose.Quote
Same here. As it was mostly from major card companies I believe it is a safe bet.QuoteThough even at 25 I knew enough to tell her to pay the mortgage rather than any other debts she had. She wouldn’t listen though and it probably would have backfired anyway. Even without a mortgage she was in bankruptcy when she passed. The part I found most scandalous was the number of new credit applications she was receiving while in bankruptcy. A dozen or more arrived in the two weeks between her death and when we cancelled her mail. The bankruptcy was dismissed (not sure of the legal term) after i showed her public aid that she had less that $500 in assets when she died. I never did find out her total debt. Very thankful to live in a time and place where debts are not passed on the children.Scandalous indeed. I hope it was predators like that who got stuck with your mother's debt.
I don't know if it's a FU story, but it certainly is epic.
I had a meeting with my boss today which isn't that unusual. We have a great working relationship and are quite casual with each other, it also helps that we both married a doctor so we have some common ground.
Anyway... We start discussing changes we could implement after covid loosens its grip on our lives. He gets that faraway look and says "You know I've been thinking that we should just shutdown the office and work from home permanently, then we just require everyone to fill out timesheets with a 5 minute resolution and that will be much better..." *pause for effect* "but then I remembered that if I did that you would give notice on the spot and find a new hobby..." *big smirk*
Not going to lie, he had me in the first half. But it still feels epic that he knows that I am FI and be completely chill about it, I never told him specifically but discussions about investments, property have been going around the office and I guess he picked up on it.
And I am willing to concede that he pulled an epic-troll on me today :). I was halfway expected to get rick-rolled as well.
PS. For the record I have decided long ago that timesheets are an instant reason to quit a job. I've actually turned down jobs that required me to track my time.
Ironically, I intentionally sought out a job with timesheets. The 5 minutes a day I devote to caring about it means I actually get paid for my overtime now.
PS. For the record I have decided long ago that timesheets are an instant reason to quit a job. I've actually turned down jobs that required me to track my time.
PS. For the record I have decided long ago that timesheets are an instant reason to quit a job. I've actually turned down jobs that required me to track my time.I am salary and have to fill out a time sheet online. Previously I would just put in put in 8 for every day and any holidays or pto. They decided that the really didn't need the time worked since I was salary and just to record any time off but I still had to approve it weekly.
I'm losing all interest in work and I'm almost to one year away from my RE planned date (was a stretch goal, but it's becoming clear that unless there's a major correction, I can do it quite comfortably).
So I'm looking at moving my RE date earlier, but I'm hesitating and starting to think of all kinds of scenarios to walk away. Most of them are to not say anything other than "need to focus on family".
But today I started thinking that I'd like to tell the Security Officer (holds my clearance) that I plan to start consuming pot.
That's it. Just see what they do with the info. HAHAHA If I travel, I have to give them notice. I really wonder what they would do if I called and said "I plan to start getting high on mm-dd-yyyy." I wonder if they even have any procedure in place or if they would just be like "okay, thanks for letting us know"
Folks above me are probably rightly encouraging you not to do this, but I am saddened that none of them pointed out that this is freakin' hilarious. Thanks for giving me a big laugh as I start my day.
I'm losing all interest in work and I'm almost to one year away from my RE planned date (was a stretch goal, but it's becoming clear that unless there's a major correction, I can do it quite comfortably).
So I'm looking at moving my RE date earlier, but I'm hesitating and starting to think of all kinds of scenarios to walk away. Most of them are to not say anything other than "need to focus on family".
But today I started thinking that I'd like to tell the Security Officer (holds my clearance) that I plan to start consuming pot.
That's it. Just see what they do with the info. HAHAHA If I travel, I have to give them notice. I really wonder what they would do if I called and said "I plan to start getting high on mm-dd-yyyy." I wonder if they even have any procedure in place or if they would just be like "okay, thanks for letting us know"
Folks above me are probably rightly encouraging you not to do this, but I am saddened that none of them pointed out that this is freakin' hilarious. Thanks for giving me a big laugh as I start my day.
Thank you! I found it hilarious mostly because I truly do not think they would do anything. I’m done. I’m not going back. I don’t care about burning bridges (although I don’t think it’s really burning bridges). Also, I’ve been so worried about what to tell them why I’m leaving (there will be questions and I don’t intend to tell them the truth) this oils be an easy way out. It’s not illegal so they can’t hold it against me and if I tell them in advance they must either act or accept.
I’m talking myself into it the more I think on it.
I’ve already told many people I work with that I intend to become a total stoner once I retire. I don’t think anyone actually believes me because I’m incredibly square.
I had applied for a DC job at one point that included a pretty intensive background check. There was a fun moment where I was on a polygraph with a crew-cut wearing DOD operator asking me to describe exactly how much pot I had smoked while in college in Santa Cruz, just for the record. We agreed on a rough estimate based on number of days as an acceptable answer.I'm losing all interest in work and I'm almost to one year away from my RE planned date (was a stretch goal, but it's becoming clear that unless there's a major correction, I can do it quite comfortably).
So I'm looking at moving my RE date earlier, but I'm hesitating and starting to think of all kinds of scenarios to walk away. Most of them are to not say anything other than "need to focus on family".
But today I started thinking that I'd like to tell the Security Officer (holds my clearance) that I plan to start consuming pot.
That's it. Just see what they do with the info. HAHAHA If I travel, I have to give them notice. I really wonder what they would do if I called and said "I plan to start getting high on mm-dd-yyyy." I wonder if they even have any procedure in place or if they would just be like "okay, thanks for letting us know"
Folks above me are probably rightly encouraging you not to do this, but I am saddened that none of them pointed out that this is freakin' hilarious. Thanks for giving me a big laugh as I start my day.
Thank you! I found it hilarious mostly because I truly do not think they would do anything. I’m done. I’m not going back. I don’t care about burning bridges (although I don’t think it’s really burning bridges). Also, I’ve been so worried about what to tell them why I’m leaving (there will be questions and I don’t intend to tell them the truth) this oils be an easy way out. It’s not illegal so they can’t hold it against me and if I tell them in advance they must either act or accept.
I’m talking myself into it the more I think on it.
I’ve already told many people I work with that I intend to become a total stoner once I retire. I don’t think anyone actually believes me because I’m incredibly square.
I had applied for a DC job at one point that included a pretty intensive background check. There was a fun moment where I was on a polygraph with a crew-cut wearing DOD operator asking me to describe exactly how much pot I had smoked while in college in Santa Cruz, just for the record. We agreed on a rough estimate based on number of days as an acceptable answer.I'm losing all interest in work and I'm almost to one year away from my RE planned date (was a stretch goal, but it's becoming clear that unless there's a major correction, I can do it quite comfortably).
So I'm looking at moving my RE date earlier, but I'm hesitating and starting to think of all kinds of scenarios to walk away. Most of them are to not say anything other than "need to focus on family".
But today I started thinking that I'd like to tell the Security Officer (holds my clearance) that I plan to start consuming pot.
That's it. Just see what they do with the info. HAHAHA If I travel, I have to give them notice. I really wonder what they would do if I called and said "I plan to start getting high on mm-dd-yyyy." I wonder if they even have any procedure in place or if they would just be like "okay, thanks for letting us know"
Folks above me are probably rightly encouraging you not to do this, but I am saddened that none of them pointed out that this is freakin' hilarious. Thanks for giving me a big laugh as I start my day.
Thank you! I found it hilarious mostly because I truly do not think they would do anything. I’m done. I’m not going back. I don’t care about burning bridges (although I don’t think it’s really burning bridges). Also, I’ve been so worried about what to tell them why I’m leaving (there will be questions and I don’t intend to tell them the truth) this oils be an easy way out. It’s not illegal so they can’t hold it against me and if I tell them in advance they must either act or accept.
I’m talking myself into it the more I think on it.
I’ve already told many people I work with that I intend to become a total stoner once I retire. I don’t think anyone actually believes me because I’m incredibly square.
Reading that again I had a new thought: What if the mother had gotten the credits a few weeks before she dies.I can see that. In a situation where the bank didn't know you and your brother and your mother, hopefully there would have been some mechanism to appoint someone independent to act on behalf of your mother.Those are both epic stories, @Alternatepriorities, but, at the same time, I'm kind of scandalized that someone who doesn't have the cognitive capacity to sell her house can still be foreclosed on. In your case, you and your brother were clearly acting in the best interest of your relatives, but it's easy to imagine a similar scenario in which the sons buy the mother's foreclosed house, evict her, and flip it for a quick profit
Well she hadn’t been paying the mortgage in months by that point and didn’t have any money to pay it with. I can’t really fault the bank for moving to foreclose.QuoteThough even at 25 I knew enough to tell her to pay the mortgage rather than any other debts she had. She wouldn’t listen though and it probably would have backfired anyway. Even without a mortgage she was in bankruptcy when she passed. The part I found most scandalous was the number of new credit applications she was receiving while in bankruptcy. A dozen or more arrived in the two weeks between her death and when we cancelled her mail. The bankruptcy was dismissed (not sure of the legal term) after i showed her public aid that she had less that $500 in assets when she died. I never did find out her total debt. Very thankful to live in a time and place where debts are not passed on the children.Scandalous indeed. I hope it was predators like that who got stuck with your mother's debt.
There was a fun moment where I was on a polygraphFortunately such unworking toothsayer's equipment is illegal here.
I'd like to know what the 17 items are.Hear, Hear, President Wilson only had 14 points to reorganize all of Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Points
@ScreamingHeadGuy Now we really need to know what happened after you sent this epic email!
I hope we'll find out on Tuesday, but it's possible ScreamingHeadGuy will be too busy to post. I'm sure it will be good when he does.@ScreamingHeadGuy Now we really need to know what happened after you sent this epic email!
Love it. Me too.
I hope we'll find out on Tuesday, but it's possible ScreamingHeadGuy will be too busy to post. I'm sure it will be good when he does.@ScreamingHeadGuy Now we really need to know what happened after you sent this epic email!
Love it. Me too.
I'd like to know what the 17 items are.
I'd like to know what the 17 items are.
Nothing out of the ordinary - it's pretty much standard stuff (from what I've seen of other agreements).
Firm would: pay me 8 weeks' salary as severance, continue to award PTO until my end of employment, payout all accumulated PTO at end of employment, extend health insurance coverage to last day of month my employment ends, immediately provide letter with date of end of health insurance coverage.
I would: waive any claims against firm, waive any bonus firm issues, return any office equipment firm wants, agree not to disparage firm, not share confidential information, not share trade secrets.
Note: I specifically did leave out "not contact firm's clients" because I want to use that as leverage if they think I'm looking to poach clients when I move to a competitor.
As of yet my supervisor has only sent one email with the gist of "I'll get back to you after I talk to HR." Given the pace of our not-in-house HR department this could mean I'm cut loose tomorrow or in six weeks from Friday. Either way is fine with me, as long as they pay up.
I'd like to know what the 17 items are.
Nothing out of the ordinary - it's pretty much standard stuff (from what I've seen of other agreements).
Firm would: pay me 8 weeks' salary as severance, continue to award PTO until my end of employment, payout all accumulated PTO at end of employment, extend health insurance coverage to last day of month my employment ends, immediately provide letter with date of end of health insurance coverage.
I would: waive any claims against firm, waive any bonus firm issues, return any office equipment firm wants, agree not to disparage firm, not share confidential information, not share trade secrets.
Note: I specifically did leave out "not contact firm's clients" because I want to use that as leverage if they think I'm looking to poach clients when I move to a competitor.
As of yet my supervisor has only sent one email with the gist of "I'll get back to you after I talk to HR." Given the pace of our not-in-house HR department this could mean I'm cut loose tomorrow or in six weeks from Friday. Either way is fine with me, as long as they pay up.
I'd like to know what the 17 items are.
Nothing out of the ordinary - it's pretty much standard stuff (from what I've seen of other agreements).
Firm would: pay me 8 weeks' salary as severance, continue to award PTO until my end of employment, payout all accumulated PTO at end of employment, extend health insurance coverage to last day of month my employment ends, immediately provide letter with date of end of health insurance coverage.
I would: waive any claims against firm, waive any bonus firm issues, return any office equipment firm wants, agree not to disparage firm, not share confidential information, not share trade secrets.
Note: I specifically did leave out "not contact firm's clients" because I want to use that as leverage if they think I'm looking to poach clients when I move to a competitor.
As of yet my supervisor has only sent one email with the gist of "I'll get back to you after I talk to HR." Given the pace of our not-in-house HR department this could mean I'm cut loose tomorrow or in six weeks from Friday. Either way is fine with me, as long as they pay up.
I saw on another thread that you were done. So did you get anything you asked for?
I might be contractually obligated to not discuss whether or not I have agreed to a separation package. Maybe sorry for that.
For how long?I'd like to know what the 17 items are.
Nothing out of the ordinary - it's pretty much standard stuff (from what I've seen of other agreements).
Firm would: pay me 8 weeks' salary as severance, continue to award PTO until my end of employment, payout all accumulated PTO at end of employment, extend health insurance coverage to last day of month my employment ends, immediately provide letter with date of end of health insurance coverage.
I would: waive any claims against firm, waive any bonus firm issues, return any office equipment firm wants, agree not to disparage firm, not share confidential information, not share trade secrets.
Note: I specifically did leave out "not contact firm's clients" because I want to use that as leverage if they think I'm looking to poach clients when I move to a competitor.
As of yet my supervisor has only sent one email with the gist of "I'll get back to you after I talk to HR." Given the pace of our not-in-house HR department this could mean I'm cut loose tomorrow or in six weeks from Friday. Either way is fine with me, as long as they pay up.
I saw on another thread that you were done. So did you get anything you asked for?
I might be contractually obligated to not discuss whether or not I have agreed to a separation package. Maybe sorry for that.
I might be contractually obligated to not discuss whether or not I have agreed to a separation package. Maybe sorry for that.
Cool! Sounds good to me :)
If they want to cut my notice short, fine with me.The last threat/ultimatum of desperate management, "we're going to make you miss these last 2 weeks of pay!" is really just a relieved "oh god, thank you so much!" when you quit for FU reasons
I posted over in Bad Assity but someone suggested I post over here as well. Yesterday I quit my incredibly toxic job. It's been pretty bad for 3 years (since my hiring manager left and the CEO put his BFF who got fired from another org in place). But, the last 4 months have been horrific, it's really affecting my mental health. As an example of the kind of guy he is- he is the Chief HR Officer and this summer said "We should have a fried chicken food truck and a bunch of watermelon this week for our (mostly black) employee population because 'those people like that kind of thing'. Seriously, you can't make this shit up.
In November was 'offered' a promotion- in reality I was told I would be in a new role that was recently vacated. Not only was I told that I would be in this VP role, but would also keep my old job so now I have 2 50 hour/ week jobs. And they didn't want to pay me more. Rather, I would be 'on a path' to more comp. No. Fucking. Way. So, I negotiated 20k more $ and actually got it b/c I appealed to HR regarding internal comp equity. Then they dumped a client on me that is both verbally and emotionally abusive. I don't mean 'difficult'. I've dealt with that for a long time but this is actually abusive. I reported her behaviors several times and the org refused to investigate (counter to federal law). On top of that my boss kept saying 'What did I give you an extra 20k for if you can't handle a tough client?!" Well, fuck them. I don't need that. Nothing is worth my mental health.
So in my mind I set an April 1 leave date. We're nearly FI so I have a good runway. I then reached out to someone who approached me for a contract role a few months ago. They were still looking so I signed and quit. I'll start with them on March 15th and the contract will take me all the way to my FIRE date in Feb 2022. Leadership was totally floored when I resigned and started panicking over an upcoming big important meeting with the shit client. They wanted me to still attend. I said nopey nope nope. If they want to cut my notice short, fine with me.
I'm excited about the new job. I get to approach it as mostly fun and temporary.
Good for you @asauer! Enjoy what comes next.Definitely meets the EPIC FU money story criteria! Sometimes I wish I had a good story, but tales like yours are a good reason to only experience FU Money vicariously.
yeah, there's absolutely no way I'd give them the two weeks anyway, you've got another job starting soon, take the time off instead.If they want to cut my notice short, fine with me.The last threat/ultimatum of desperate management, "we're going to make you miss these last 2 weeks of pay!" is really just a relieved "oh god, thank you so much!" when you quit for FU reasons
So in my mind I set an April 1 leave date. We're nearly FI so I have a good runway. I then reached out to someone who approached me for a contract role a few months ago. They were still looking so I signed and quit. I'll start with them on March 15th and the contract will take me all the way to my FIRE date in Feb 2022. Leadership was totally floored when I resigned and started panicking over an upcoming big important meeting with the shit client. They wanted me to still attend. I said nopey nope nope. If they want to cut my notice short, fine with me.
I'm excited about the new job. I get to approach it as mostly fun and temporary.
I said nopey nope nope.
You better believe it! 😆I said nopey nope nope.
I feel like that should be your motto! Congrats @asauer
If they want to cut my notice short, fine with me.The last threat/ultimatum of desperate management, "we're going to make you miss these last 2 weeks of pay!" is really just a relieved "oh god, thank you so much!" when you quit for FU reasons
...
didn't need any outrageous exit strategy. Even now, as I'm thinking "oh, you know what someone should really do in that department"? I write half an email to start it, then I delete it and say "fuck it...why should I care". To me, that's the most epic thing of all. Not letting them have any space in my head any more. I still have people that call me on weekends (WEEKENDS) to vent about work problems. I know it will eventually taper off, but
...
...
I still have people that call me on weekends (WEEKENDS) to vent about work problems. I know it will eventually taper off, but should I just cut it off cold turkey? These aren't "friends". These are people who have and could directly affect my past and future earnings.
...
...
didn't need any outrageous exit strategy. Even now, as I'm thinking "oh, you know what someone should really do in that department"? I write half an email to start it, then I delete it and say "fuck it...why should I care". To me, that's the most epic thing of all. Not letting them have any space in my head any more. I still have people that call me on weekends (WEEKENDS) to vent about work problems. I know it will eventually taper off, but
...
Hah - its more than 18 months since I quit from a megacorp and, occasionally, there are still times when I start composing emails in my mind about everything that was broken :-)
Getting the company out of your head is a slow process.
Not letting them have any space in my head any more.
I don't think I ever followed up to provide all the gory details of my epic FU money story.Are you, for some reason, not able to get high now? Like, does your employer drug test you? Cannabis is legal is D.C., now, right? Since we FIRED, and especially since Covid started, I've been smoking a lot more weed than I ever did while working, mostly because I've got the free time, and fewer responsibilities. It feels like I'm a teenager again.
I did give notice, I'm 5 days away from my last day, and although I've had hundreds of daydreams over the past decade about how it would actually happen, the most epic thing about it (to me) was that it wasn't epic at all. Funny enough, once I ended up being secure enough in my finances, I didn't need any outrageous exit strategy. Even now, as I'm thinking "oh, you know what someone should really do in that department"? I write half an email to start it, then I delete it and say "fuck it...why should I care". To me, that's the most epic thing of all. Not letting them have any space in my head any more. I still have people that call me on weekends (WEEKENDS) to vent about work problems. I know it will eventually taper off, but should I just cut it off cold turkey? These aren't "friends". These are people who have and could directly affect my past and future earnings.
Sorry it's not entertaining at all, but it actually feels better to me than anything with drama.
oh, and to follow up with the previous pot-smoking thing. Yes, I've told a few people who have asked "what are you gonna do on day1?" that I'm gonna get high, but they don't believe it (and neither do I). They just laugh.
I don't think I ever followed up to provide all the gory details of my epic FU money story.Are you, for some reason, not able to get high now? Like, does your employer drug test you? Cannabis is legal is D.C., now, right? Since we FIRED, and especially since Covid started, I've been smoking a lot more weed than I ever did while working, mostly because I've got the free time, and fewer responsibilities. It feels like I'm a teenager again.
I did give notice, I'm 5 days away from my last day, and although I've had hundreds of daydreams over the past decade about how it would actually happen, the most epic thing about it (to me) was that it wasn't epic at all. Funny enough, once I ended up being secure enough in my finances, I didn't need any outrageous exit strategy. Even now, as I'm thinking "oh, you know what someone should really do in that department"? I write half an email to start it, then I delete it and say "fuck it...why should I care". To me, that's the most epic thing of all. Not letting them have any space in my head any more. I still have people that call me on weekends (WEEKENDS) to vent about work problems. I know it will eventually taper off, but should I just cut it off cold turkey? These aren't "friends". These are people who have and could directly affect my past and future earnings.
Sorry it's not entertaining at all, but it actually feels better to me than anything with drama.
oh, and to follow up with the previous pot-smoking thing. Yes, I've told a few people who have asked "what are you gonna do on day1?" that I'm gonna get high, but they don't believe it (and neither do I). They just laugh.
I don't think I ever followed up to provide all the gory details of my epic FU money story.Are you, for some reason, not able to get high now? Like, does your employer drug test you? Cannabis is legal is D.C., now, right? Since we FIRED, and especially since Covid started, I've been smoking a lot more weed than I ever did while working, mostly because I've got the free time, and fewer responsibilities. It feels like I'm a teenager again.
I did give notice, I'm 5 days away from my last day, and although I've had hundreds of daydreams over the past decade about how it would actually happen, the most epic thing about it (to me) was that it wasn't epic at all. Funny enough, once I ended up being secure enough in my finances, I didn't need any outrageous exit strategy. Even now, as I'm thinking "oh, you know what someone should really do in that department"? I write half an email to start it, then I delete it and say "fuck it...why should I care". To me, that's the most epic thing of all. Not letting them have any space in my head any more. I still have people that call me on weekends (WEEKENDS) to vent about work problems. I know it will eventually taper off, but should I just cut it off cold turkey? These aren't "friends". These are people who have and could directly affect my past and future earnings.
Sorry it's not entertaining at all, but it actually feels better to me than anything with drama.
oh, and to follow up with the previous pot-smoking thing. Yes, I've told a few people who have asked "what are you gonna do on day1?" that I'm gonna get high, but they don't believe it (and neither do I). They just laugh.
There are other reasons someone may choose to not partake in weed. And those reasons are perfectly valid, acceptable, and should be respected.
Every time I hear one of these truly badass quitting stories, this quote comes to mind...
Seriously, congratulations! I can't imagine being in that position at work, FU money or no.
Of course, there are many possible valid reasons people might choose not to consume cannabis, lol. My only reason for asking was because BH sounded like they wanted to get high, but were not, for some reason...I don't think I ever followed up to provide all the gory details of my epic FU money story.Are you, for some reason, not able to get high now? Like, does your employer drug test you? Cannabis is legal is D.C., now, right? Since we FIRED, and especially since Covid started, I've been smoking a lot more weed than I ever did while working, mostly because I've got the free time, and fewer responsibilities. It feels like I'm a teenager again.
I did give notice, I'm 5 days away from my last day, and although I've had hundreds of daydreams over the past decade about how it would actually happen, the most epic thing about it (to me) was that it wasn't epic at all. Funny enough, once I ended up being secure enough in my finances, I didn't need any outrageous exit strategy. Even now, as I'm thinking "oh, you know what someone should really do in that department"? I write half an email to start it, then I delete it and say "fuck it...why should I care". To me, that's the most epic thing of all. Not letting them have any space in my head any more. I still have people that call me on weekends (WEEKENDS) to vent about work problems. I know it will eventually taper off, but should I just cut it off cold turkey? These aren't "friends". These are people who have and could directly affect my past and future earnings.
Sorry it's not entertaining at all, but it actually feels better to me than anything with drama.
oh, and to follow up with the previous pot-smoking thing. Yes, I've told a few people who have asked "what are you gonna do on day1?" that I'm gonna get high, but they don't believe it (and neither do I). They just laugh.
There are other reasons someone may choose to not partake in weed. And those reasons are perfectly valid, acceptable, and should be respected.
Some of us don't want the smoke in our lungs. Some of us just aren't interested. Just like some of us don't smoke/chew tobacco. Or drink alcohol. The opportunity to do something doesn't imply everyone will want to do it.
Of course, there are many possible valid reasons people might choose not to consume cannabis, lol. My only reason for asking was because BH sounded like they wanted to get high, but were not, for some reason...I don't think I ever followed up to provide all the gory details of my epic FU money story.Are you, for some reason, not able to get high now? Like, does your employer drug test you? Cannabis is legal is D.C., now, right? Since we FIRED, and especially since Covid started, I've been smoking a lot more weed than I ever did while working, mostly because I've got the free time, and fewer responsibilities. It feels like I'm a teenager again.
I did give notice, I'm 5 days away from my last day, and although I've had hundreds of daydreams over the past decade about how it would actually happen, the most epic thing about it (to me) was that it wasn't epic at all. Funny enough, once I ended up being secure enough in my finances, I didn't need any outrageous exit strategy. Even now, as I'm thinking "oh, you know what someone should really do in that department"? I write half an email to start it, then I delete it and say "fuck it...why should I care". To me, that's the most epic thing of all. Not letting them have any space in my head any more. I still have people that call me on weekends (WEEKENDS) to vent about work problems. I know it will eventually taper off, but should I just cut it off cold turkey? These aren't "friends". These are people who have and could directly affect my past and future earnings.
Sorry it's not entertaining at all, but it actually feels better to me than anything with drama.
oh, and to follow up with the previous pot-smoking thing. Yes, I've told a few people who have asked "what are you gonna do on day1?" that I'm gonna get high, but they don't believe it (and neither do I). They just laugh.
There are other reasons someone may choose to not partake in weed. And those reasons are perfectly valid, acceptable, and should be respected.
Some of us don't want the smoke in our lungs. Some of us just aren't interested. Just like some of us don't smoke/chew tobacco. Or drink alcohol. The opportunity to do something doesn't imply everyone will want to do it.
I posted over in Bad Assity...
So in my mind I set an April 1 leave date. We're nearly FI so I have a good runway. I then reached out to someone who approached me for a contract role a few months ago. They were still looking so I signed and quit. I'll start with them on March 15th and the contract will take me all the way to my FIRE date in Feb 2022. Leadership was totally floored when I resigned and started panicking over an upcoming big important meeting with the shit client. They wanted me to still attend. I said nopey nope nope. If they want to cut my notice short, fine with me.
I'm excited about the new job. I get to approach it as mostly fun and temporary.
I posted over in Bad Assity...
So in my mind I set an April 1 leave date. We're nearly FI so I have a good runway. I then reached out to someone who approached me for a contract role a few months ago. They were still looking so I signed and quit. I'll start with them on March 15th and the contract will take me all the way to my FIRE date in Feb 2022. Leadership was totally floored when I resigned and started panicking over an upcoming big important meeting with the shit client. They wanted me to still attend. I said nopey nope nope. If they want to cut my notice short, fine with me.
I'm excited about the new job. I get to approach it as mostly fun and temporary.
Reading this post, I thought how awesome it would be to print up t-shirts that read: “Nopey Nope Nope” and start wearing them to work in the week or so before giving notice. Or heck, once you get to FI and just want to mess with people. When someone asked you to do something unreasonable, could just point to the shirt.
Sorry, I am having a shit week at work, so this is making me fantasize about what could be very soon...
"Future Earnings" Just in case I ever decide I need to work there again. If I'm secure enough in my FI, then no...they really can't affect any future earnings. Thanks for the reminder of that. (YAY!)...
I still have people that call me on weekends (WEEKENDS) to vent about work problems. I know it will eventually taper off, but should I just cut it off cold turkey? These aren't "friends". These are people who have and could directly affect my past and future earnings.
...
If they aren't friends or people you are friendly with, then I think it's fine to cut cold turkey if you feel inclined to. But the "could directly affect my future earnings" statement caught my attention... How? Are you relying on the company to do well to pay you a pension? Or is there some other deferred compensation package you are looking at?
The other aspect to think about here is the entertainment value. It's dark, but sometimes it could give you entertainment/provide even more vindication to hear that the environment still sucks.
Are you, for some reason, not able to get high now? Like, does your employer drug test you? Cannabis is legal is D.C., now, right? Since we FIRED, and especially since Covid started, I've been smoking a lot more weed than I ever did while working, mostly because I've got the free time, and fewer responsibilities. It feels like I'm a teenager again.
There are other reasons someone may choose to not partake in weed. And those reasons are perfectly valid, acceptable, and should be respected.I kind of want to partake, but I haven't always liked the feeling in the past. If it will help make me mellower, then I'm all for it. If there are some healing properties that I can use for anti-inflammation, I'll go there.
Some of us don't want the smoke in our lungs. Some of us just aren't interested. Just like some of us don't smoke/chew tobacco. Or drink alcohol. The opportunity to do something doesn't imply everyone will want to do it.I'm a former smoker, and I would loooooooovvvve to inhale again, but I won't because I'm afraid it would lead me back to cigarettes. So if I do decide to partake, I will probably go with edibles of some sort.
heh heh, I keep thinking about the Nope cards in the game Exploding Kittens. My favorite is the Narnope.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-PHyh9CAAEZS_f.jpg)
(https://www.wordjoiner.co.nz/assets/uploads/Nope-576x675.jpg)
heh heh, I keep thinking about the Nope cards in the game Exploding Kittens. My favorite is the Narnope.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-PHyh9CAAEZS_f.jpg)
(https://www.wordjoiner.co.nz/assets/uploads/Nope-576x675.jpg)
I may try to find this game, just so I can carry these cards around in my pocket and distribute freely.
I'm a former smoker, and I would loooooooovvvve to inhale again, but I won't because I'm afraid it would lead me back to cigarettes. So if I do decide to partake, I will probably go with edibles of some sort.
haha yeah. But the feeling of inhaling deeply was also addicting. I do not ever want to do that again (other than for fresh clean air) because I cannot be trusted not to jump back to cigs. God they're just awful. It's been over 20 years since I quit and I still fear the hold they had on me.I'm a former smoker, and I would loooooooovvvve to inhale again, but I won't because I'm afraid it would lead me back to cigarettes. So if I do decide to partake, I will probably go with edibles of some sort.
I always thought tobacco was the "gateway drug", not pot. If you can smoke cigarettes you can smoke anything. ;-)
haha yeah. But the feeling of inhaling deeply was also addicting. I do not ever want to do that again (other than for fresh clean air) because I cannot be trusted not to jump back to cigs. God they're just awful. It's been over 20 years since I quit and I still fear the hold they had on me.I'm a former smoker, and I would loooooooovvvve to inhale again, but I won't because I'm afraid it would lead me back to cigarettes. So if I do decide to partake, I will probably go with edibles of some sort.
I always thought tobacco was the "gateway drug", not pot. If you can smoke cigarettes you can smoke anything. ;-)
haha yeah. But the feeling of inhaling deeply was also addicting. I do not ever want to do that again (other than for fresh clean air) because I cannot be trusted not to jump back to cigs. God they're just awful. It's been over 20 years since I quit and I still fear the hold they had on me.I'm a former smoker, and I would loooooooovvvve to inhale again, but I won't because I'm afraid it would lead me back to cigarettes. So if I do decide to partake, I will probably go with edibles of some sort.
I always thought tobacco was the "gateway drug", not pot. If you can smoke cigarettes you can smoke anything. ;-)
Congratulations on quitting. My father has never been able to despite walking away from Alcohol and a couple of "harder" drugs cold turkey more that 35 years ago... He's tried numerous times to quit smoking and even managed for a few days at a time, but it never sticks. Probably the primary reason I've never had any interest in smoking anything...
I have a good friend whose son has been dealing (and mostly failing) with cannabis-induced psychosis for the last 20 years. I'd never touch cannabis even without the smoking hazard.haha yeah. But the feeling of inhaling deeply was also addicting. I do not ever want to do that again (other than for fresh clean air) because I cannot be trusted not to jump back to cigs. God they're just awful. It's been over 20 years since I quit and I still fear the hold they had on me.I'm a former smoker, and I would loooooooovvvve to inhale again, but I won't because I'm afraid it would lead me back to cigarettes. So if I do decide to partake, I will probably go with edibles of some sort.
I always thought tobacco was the "gateway drug", not pot. If you can smoke cigarettes you can smoke anything. ;-)
Congratulations on quitting. My father has never been able to despite walking away from Alcohol and a couple of "harder" drugs cold turkey more that 35 years ago... He's tried numerous times to quit smoking and even managed for a few days at a time, but it never sticks. Probably the primary reason I've never had any interest in smoking anything...
Seeing my grandfather die from emphysema when I was a kid killed any desire I had to smoke. He couldn't even walk across the room without stopping to catch his breath. He made me promise to never smoke, and I'm so glad I kept that promise.
I posted over in Bad Assity...This is a fabulous idea!
So in my mind I set an April 1 leave date. We're nearly FI so I have a good runway. I then reached out to someone who approached me for a contract role a few months ago. They were still looking so I signed and quit. I'll start with them on March 15th and the contract will take me all the way to my FIRE date in Feb 2022. Leadership was totally floored when I resigned and started panicking over an upcoming big important meeting with the shit client. They wanted me to still attend. I said nopey nope nope. If they want to cut my notice short, fine with me.
I'm excited about the new job. I get to approach it as mostly fun and temporary.
Reading this post, I thought how awesome it would be to print up t-shirts that read: “Nopey Nope Nope” and start wearing them to work in the week or so before giving notice. Or heck, once you get to FI and just want to mess with people. When someone asked you to do something unreasonable, could just point to the shirt.
Sorry, I am having a shit week at work, so this is making me fantasize about what could be very soon...
I have a good friend whose son has been dealing (and mostly failing) with cannabis-induced psychosis for the last 20 years. I'd never touch cannabis even without the smoking hazard.
I may try to find this game, just so I can carry these cards around in my pocket and distribute freely.
Our family LOVES this game. And it just got NUTS for us as we just included the expansion packs.
Matt Inman's comics are funny as hell - because it mixes a little vulgar humor with true knowledge and intelligence. Probably why The Simpsons writers have done so well for so long.
Hard to tell the difference if someone goes from functioning and sane to non-functioning and insane immediately after a heavy bout of smoking though, right?I have a good friend whose son has been dealing (and mostly failing) with cannabis-induced psychosis for the last 20 years. I'd never touch cannabis even without the smoking hazard.
Cannabis doesn't 'induce psychosis." People who are psychotic sometimes self-medicate with all kinds of things, including cannabis, but that's not what causes their psychosis. The (often heavy) cannabis use is more a symptom of their underlying mental problems.
I have a good friend whose son has been dealing (and mostly failing) with cannabis-induced psychosis for the last 20 years. I'd never touch cannabis even without the smoking hazard.
Cannabis doesn't 'induce psychosis." People who are psychotic sometimes self-medicate with all kinds of things, including cannabis, but that's not what causes their psychosis. The (often heavy) cannabis use is more a symptom of their underlying mental problems.
I can't wait for this thread to get back on topic!Hahaha, good luck with that!
I can't wait for this thread to get back on topic!
In the meantime I've been declining meeting invitations associated with the role, or attending and declining most action items, which has undoubtedly ruffled some feathers.
10% raise on the spot + $10K bonus should be insulting. Company (and this manager specifically) was underpaying you for quite a while if they could do that pretty much instantaneously. Great move getting out of there!He was a company man. I was being paid par-for-the-course at the time, and it was a convenient place to work since my kids were in the onsite daycare. There wasn't any potential for technical growith, and I didn't want to become management. I had started playing with cloud infrastructure at my desk in my spare time and got noticed by the co-worker/fellow whipping boy. He ended up hiring me a few months after he left. He's my director now and is a pretty good chap who recognizes talent and tries to hold on to them
What I really want to know, what did your boss say when you told him you were quitting after all, a few weeks later?He was a big fan of phrases/sayings, the midwesterner he was.
Another bonus of being a Mustachian and ex-Boglehead is that at my current employer, I complained about our crappy 401k. The owners told me to write up a paper showing proof, which convinced them. Ended up moving the 401k to Guideline, reducing employer fees/costs by 77%.
I don't have an epic FU money story. But this post by @SwordGuy , on this thread, in 2016 got my brain cogs spinning:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/epic-fu-money-stories/msg1110522/#msg1110522
Things at my previous job weren't going well. Every other week I (along with my lead network engineer) were the whipping boys of a high-level gov civilian in the DoD. (The engineer who was the whipping boy in my "respite week" in my current director.) There came a time, after a year of whippings, that I took my manager outside the office and told him I was tired of working with a shitty software product, which I had assessed 18 months prior and said it was worse than a sack of manure, yet the agency purchased it. The vendor support was piss-poor, and the gov oversight was getting into my underwear. I asked for another job within the company. My manager said no, I had to stay to work and complete the project in the next 6 months as it was high-visibilty. Later that week, I read the above-mentioned post on this thread. Took my boss outside, told him I was ready to quit. He asked me about money; I said I had enough saved up. (Between rental income and my wife's earnings, we would be fine.) In addition, I was also wearing 2 other hats, so they'd need 2-3 people to replace me. He gave me a 10% raise on the spot, and got me a bonus $10k a week later. He thought that would satisfy someone with FU money. A couple of months later, after several interviews, and taking my time to pick, I went with a small business where I had latitude to do many different things, instead of being stuck in a Fortune 500 where I was just another billable butt-in-seat resource.
Thanks to FU money and advice on this forum, I'm now making 33% more than I did 3 years ago (not counting for inflation). I have a flex-work schedule, zero management and gov people sitting on my head.
What I really want to know, what did your boss say when you told him you were quitting after all, a few weeks later?Another bonus of being a Mustachian and ex-Boglehead is that at my current employer, I complained about our crappy 401k. The owners told me to write up a paper showing proof, which convinced them. Ended up moving the 401k to Guideline, reducing employer fees/costs by 77%.
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.
Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.
Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.
I get added to random meetings. The worse part is a lack of agenda or topics to discuss. Hence I don't attend. They haven't noticed. It has been 3 years at the customer site.
(I've always made it a point to provide attendees with an agenda in meetings I set up to make it productive and quick.)
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.
Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.
Sir, this is the DoD/FedGov. Thank you for the compliments.I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.
Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.
I get added to random meetings. The worse part is a lack of agenda or topics to discuss. Hence I don't attend. They haven't noticed. It has been 3 years at the customer site.
(I've always made it a point to provide attendees with an agenda in meetings I set up to make it productive and quick.)
Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance. The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item. Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings. If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.
You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.
Maybe not, if you are not on the agenda, outta sight, outta mind might apply.I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.
Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.
Oh man, I'm jealous. Someone of some level of importance would notice if I skipped a meeting. This has less to do with my importance and more to do with the level of micromanaging that has become the norm in my department.
We don't always have an agenda but I tend to get asked questions a lot. Plus my manager is in almost all of my meetings, and is very much a micromanager. I can assure you they would notice.Maybe not, if you are not on the agenda, outta sight, outta mind might apply.I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.
Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.
Oh man, I'm jealous. Someone of some level of importance would notice if I skipped a meeting. This has less to do with my importance and more to do with the level of micromanaging that has become the norm in my department.
If there isn't an agenda or at least a script for daily meetings then, nearly by definition, it is useless.
Start slow and avoid the useless meetings that your manager _doesn't_ attend.We don't always have an agenda but I tend to get asked questions a lot. Plus my manager is in almost all of my meetings, and is very much a micromanager. I can assure you they would notice.Maybe not, if you are not on the agenda, outta sight, outta mind might apply.I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.
Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.
Oh man, I'm jealous. Someone of some level of importance would notice if I skipped a meeting. This has less to do with my importance and more to do with the level of micromanaging that has become the norm in my department.
If there isn't an agenda or at least a script for daily meetings then, nearly by definition, it is useless.
Sir, this is the DoD/FedGov. Thank you for the compliments.I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.
Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.
I get added to random meetings. The worse part is a lack of agenda or topics to discuss. Hence I don't attend. They haven't noticed. It has been 3 years at the customer site.
(I've always made it a point to provide attendees with an agenda in meetings I set up to make it productive and quick.)
Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance. The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item. Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings. If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.
You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.
Don't forget to pay your taxes. Uncle Sam loves you.
Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance. The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item. Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings. If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.
You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.
Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance. The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item. Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings. If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.
You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.
My old faculty meetings had agendas - but you still couldn't pay me enough to go back to one. A bunch of PhDs sitting in a room and everyone thinks they know more than everyone else and has to get their $.02 in. Doesn't matter if they have any expertise on the topic - Enrollments down? I've got a few ideas for Admissions!! - Low fundraising?? Why don't they try this!
The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.
Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance. The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item. Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings. If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.
You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.
My old faculty meetings had agendas - but you still couldn't pay me enough to go back to one. A bunch of PhDs sitting in a room and everyone thinks they know more than everyone else and has to get their $.02 in. Doesn't matter if they have any expertise on the topic - Enrollments down? I've got a few ideas for Admissions!! - Low fundraising?? Why don't they try this!
The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.
Our meetings were useful only because everyone had to be out at the scheduled end time, we all had classes to get to. And yes academics can talk forever - it is what we are paid to do, after all. We didn't want the second half of the agenda tabled until the next time because we ran out of time, that way lies madness.
I've seen the endless yak-yak at non-work meetings too, especially executive meetings. Some people seem to see meetings as social time. I don't but then I am an introvert, let's just get the agenda covered and be done! Even if "done" is really meeting followed by social time, let's keep them separate!
My manager looooves to turn meetings into social time. Commonly heard at the end of the set meeting time: "Does anyone have a hard stop?"I might have worked for that one too. Yes, I do have a hard stop if you expect me to complete my projects by your imposed deadline. Several people would clutch their phones and excuse themselves, never to return. Some people would have their coworker call them with a "get out of meeting free" call. Good friends will cover for you.
Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance. The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item. Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings. If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.
You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.
My old faculty meetings had agendas - but you still couldn't pay me enough to go back to one. A bunch of PhDs sitting in a room and everyone thinks they know more than everyone else and has to get their $.02 in. Doesn't matter if they have any expertise on the topic - Enrollments down? I've got a few ideas for Admissions!! - Low fundraising?? Why don't they try this!
The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.
Our meetings were useful only because everyone had to be out at the scheduled end time, we all had classes to get to. And yes academics can talk forever - it is what we are paid to do, after all. We didn't want the second half of the agenda tabled until the next time because we ran out of time, that way lies madness.
I've seen the endless yak-yak at non-work meetings too, especially executive meetings. Some people seem to see meetings as social time. I don't but then I am an introvert, let's just get the agenda covered and be done! Even if "done" is really meeting followed by social time, let's keep them separate!
My manager looooves to turn meetings into social time. Commonly heard at the end of the set meeting time: "Does anyone have a hard stop?"
The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.And the people who get things done put an end time to a meeting (and adhere to it).
The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.
Our meetings were useful only because everyone had to be out at the scheduled end time, we all had classes to get to.
The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.And the people who get things done put an end time to a meeting (and adhere to it).The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.
Our meetings were useful only because everyone had to be out at the scheduled end time, we all had classes to get to.
LOL see? QED!
If there is a definitive end, people will only talk about the important things once they get used to it. And people who can't do that (there is always one ego too big) get the social distancing treatment and learn it after a bit - or leave one way or the other.
May not be FU, but certainly EPIC @Alternatepriorities!
I posted a few months back about leaving a job because of a horrible boss. Turns out I wasn't the only one that had enough of her crap, and she was recently let go. They were unable to fill my position in the five(!!!) months since I left.Whoop, whoop!
I was contacted today about coming back to the company under new management. Luckily, my SO and I just had a conversation about how well we're doing financially - and how much happier I've been - since taking a 30% paycut in my current position. It was the easiest "Thanks, but no thanks" I have given someone.
I've got a potential one brewing in a 2000 person company.We've progressed to IMs of "do you have a few minutes to chat" actually being the meetings I've been declining, people currently doing roles but who have no authority to change things coming to me asking about when I'll be the roles because they're so busy and attempting to get me to just do it, and meetings with vague topics turning into "thanks for joining, let's talk through this task I'm handing off to you"....
9(!!!!!!!!) months ago a person who reports to the C suite indicated they'd like to give me 3 of their 4 subroles as an "apprentice" which is code for "without losing credit for it for a few months in case my new roles don't work out." It's influential work and very poorly defined, which is appropriate for that person's level, which is two levels above mine, and represents a shift in career direction to a new vertical. So I asked about title and pay to help me decide, hearing "we'll get back to you" which is fair since this involves multiple people. I wasn't thrilled with having to bring those things up to the C suite nor several of the follow-ups from leadership who basically expect me to immediately take them up on it.
In the meantime I've been declining meeting invitations associated with the role, or attending and declining most action items, which has undoubtedly ruffled some feathers. I've held steady, buoyed by the fact that the average tenure in these roles has been < 1 year, with the big wigs kicking you out or people burning out, and we get raises annually... This otherwise has been the right move, since I'm (correctly) on my own in delegating current tasks to make room.
Last week we got annual review promotions and I got one and a very healthy raise, but I happen to know these roles were not a part of that calculus. I think senior management is going to have a conniption fit when they approach me soon with "now that that's settled..." and I interrupt them to say "I was promoted to level 5 because I'm doing level 5 work. If you want me to do level 6 work in the other vertical I'm still waiting for information on title and pay to help me make that choice."
meetings with vague topics turning into "thanks for joining, let's talk through this task I'm handing off to you"....
It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $.I'm baffled by this. Why does it cost anyone political points to fill a staffing need? Can't someone just say to whoever has the authority, "Swashbucklinstache would be a great fit to lead tasks X, y, and Z, so I propose we offer her $300k and the title Chief Sub-Panjandrum if she will accept those responsibilities"?
You're not wrong, it isn't at all rational. Life and times of a consultancy though at this level. Asking for anything at all from another group, HR to literally do their job in this case, requires a political trade-off. It also requires the C suit to spend 10 consecutive minutes focusing on the division they run instead of how they can get promoted or an extra half percent on their bonus, (or actual more important things, to be fair) which probably explains the 9 month wait time. We bill our time in 6 minute increments and our company #2 starts her day by reviewing yesterday's numbers...It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $.I'm baffled by this. Why does it cost anyone political points to fill a staffing need? Can't someone just say to whoever has the authority, "Swashbucklinstache would be a great fit to lead tasks X, y, and Z, so I propose we offer her $300k and the title Chief Sub-Panjandrum if she will accept those responsibilities"?
Professional consulting firms often get to a certain size and lose the ability to think. And there tends to be a correlated sense of entitlement to the margin they charge as well. Tend to sell out to ever larger firms until one of those firms is "Deloitte" or one of the other huge players or the whole thing just collapses due to company's previously mentioned back-office incompetence and sense of entitlement.Pretty much. Based on the talent walking out the door we're in the early stages of the latter.
Maybe that's specific to government IT consulting, but I've seen the show play out twice now since 2008 - first firm I got into this with back then was in the "blowing up and not in a good way" stage, but being new I had no idea what I was witnessing at the time. Latest one sold out shortly after I joined. But between these two firms was a local outfit that seems content staying small - heading back to work with them in May if paperwork goes through.
May not be FU, but certainly EPIC @Alternatepriorities!Thanks! It feels pretty epic for us.
@Alternatepriorities good one! Always happy to see people choose life over money.
Professional consulting firms often get to a certain size and lose the ability to think. And there tends to be a correlated sense of entitlement to the margin they charge as well. Tend to sell out to ever larger firms until one of those firms is "Deloitte" or one of the other huge players or the whole thing just collapses due to company's previously mentioned back-office incompetence and sense of entitlement.
Maybe that's specific to government IT consulting, but I've seen the show play out twice now since 2008 - first firm I got into this with back then was in the "blowing up and not in a good way" stage, but being new I had no idea what I was witnessing at the time. Latest one sold out shortly after I joined. But between these two firms was a local outfit that seems content staying small - heading back to work with them in May if paperwork goes through.
Price’s Law says that 50% of work at a company is done by a small number of people. Specifically, it says that 50% of work is done by the square root of the number of employees.
Notice given Wednesday with 5/1 end date. And working 4 days per week starting next week until then (thanks new leave policy of only paying out 80 hours!), new gig will be 3 days per week in May. The couple people who asked what the next thing is I said "semi-retirement, and if I had any courage / willingness to cut our budget more than I really want to, I could be going to full-on retirement".
Now if I can get this damn website they asked me to stand up to actually work today I'll be in really good shape. I really hate the system programmer parts of the job, and that work seems to quite often find me. Actually looking back, this sort of thing becoming more of the job than I'd like has probably driven every major career change I've made since college.
Took about 8.5 years for our investments to go from $40K to > $1M - we didn't make any investments other than broad market index funds that are advocated basically everywhere in the FIRE community. I guess we technically had investment real estate for 17 months in there, but it performed quite badly - we gave the tenant who we knew outside of "rent the house" a hell of a deal because we knew, to the extent these things can be known, that we would be moving back into this house quite soon.Notice given Wednesday with 5/1 end date. And working 4 days per week starting next week until then (thanks new leave policy of only paying out 80 hours!), new gig will be 3 days per week in May. The couple people who asked what the next thing is I said "semi-retirement, and if I had any courage / willingness to cut our budget more than I really want to, I could be going to full-on retirement".
Now if I can get this damn website they asked me to stand up to actually work today I'll be in really good shape. I really hate the system programmer parts of the job, and that work seems to quite often find me. Actually looking back, this sort of thing becoming more of the job than I'd like has probably driven every major career change I've made since college.
Nice! I'm living FI/FIRE vicariously thru folks like you (IT/engineering/sysadmin keyboard masher here).
People on the internet are talking about the employer who sent a man his final paycheck in the form of "motor-fluid-covered pennies"Wow, that's petty.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html)
The employer's quote about how he "cannot remember" if he dropped off five hundred pounds of pennies somewhere is breath-taking.
Aside from the cleaning the motor oil this falls under "don't threaten me with a good time" - I'm weird even for this forum in that I used to literally have "count my change by hand" as a hobby - dump it out, count it up, return to the jug. Every couple of months I'd do that - I found it calming.I also kind of love counting and rolling coins. I get it.
Aside from the cleaning the motor oil this falls under "don't threaten me with a good time" - I'm weird even for this forum in that I used to literally have "count my change by hand" as a hobby - dump it out, count it up, return to the jug. Every couple of months I'd do that - I found it calming.I also kind of love counting and rolling coins. I get it.
I actually started rolling $10 worth of pennies every time I counted the money in the jug and exchanging for $1 coins at the bank which I'd put back in the jug to make it gradually look more like Scrooge McDuck's vault. By the time we moved to California and I deposited the more than $1,000 in the jug, it had a noticeably golder hue overall.Aside from the cleaning the motor oil this falls under "don't threaten me with a good time" - I'm weird even for this forum in that I used to literally have "count my change by hand" as a hobby - dump it out, count it up, return to the jug. Every couple of months I'd do that - I found it calming.I also kind of love counting and rolling coins. I get it.
Even though you're handling pennies and quarters, part of the allure for me is pretending that I'm Scrooge McDuck, swimming in thousands of gold coins.
People on the internet are talking about the employer who sent a man his final paycheck in the form of "motor-fluid-covered pennies"
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html)
The employer's quote about how he "cannot remember" if he dropped off five hundred pounds of pennies somewhere is breath-taking.
People on the internet are talking about the employer who sent a man his final paycheck in the form of "motor-fluid-covered pennies"
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html)
The employer's quote about how he "cannot remember" if he dropped off five hundred pounds of pennies somewhere is breath-taking.
I liked the recommendation that if the owner doesn't remember if he dropped them off, then how does the ex-employee know that this is his last payment for wages? (Yea, I know they left a pay stub...) If the employer doesn't admit it outright, then he still needs to pay the man.
Sounds like this was the tip of the iceberg - pulling down female employees pants in front of staff, yelling and belittling other employees, a real gem of a guy. Their reviews on Facebook have just gotten destroyed.
I think he should contact BOTH the environmental dept for hazmat dumping AND the labor board for non-payment. Let his prior employer decide whether he wants to own up to the hazmat dumping and pay those fines or claim the coins aren't from him and PAY THE WAGES AGAIN.
I think he should contact BOTH the environmental dept for hazmat dumping AND the labor board for non-payment. Let his prior employer decide whether he wants to own up to the hazmat dumping and pay those fines or claim the coins aren't from him and PAY THE WAGES AGAIN.
I like the way you think
People on the internet are talking about the employer who sent a man his final paycheck in the form of "motor-fluid-covered pennies"As later written in the article (contrary the the first fat paragraph) even after Trump this is likely an environmental protection law violation. Was my first thought.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html)
The employer's quote about how he "cannot remember" if he dropped off five hundred pounds of pennies somewhere is breath-taking.
I think he should contact BOTH the environmental dept for hazmat dumping AND the labor board for non-payment. Let his prior employer decide whether he wants to own up to the hazmat dumping and pay those fines or claim the coins aren't from him and PAY THE WAGES AGAIN.
I like the way you think
I just looked it up and in the US you can pay your federal taxes in cash at various gas and continent stations; if you showed up at 7-11 with a bucket of oil covered pennies to pay your 500$ tax bill (or to buy a cup of coffee) the clerk would tell you to pound sand. Cash has utility for two reasons 1) we all agree to use it, 2) you can pay our taxes with it. Oil covered pennies fail both those marks so I think you could make a case that he was not paid. The point of money is to be a usable intermediate unit for exchange. IANAL and all that...
I just looked it up and in the US you can pay your federal taxes in cash at various gas and continent stations; if you showed up at 7-11 with a bucket of oil covered pennies to pay your 500$ tax bill (or to buy a cup of coffee) the clerk would tell you to pound sand. Cash has utility for two reasons 1) we all agree to use it, 2) you can pay our taxes with it. Oil covered pennies fail both those marks so I think you could make a case that he was not paid. The point of money is to be a usable intermediate unit for exchange. IANAL and all that...
Actually 1) comes from 2)
That is how money came into existance: States (governments/kings) wanted to pay soldiers. But paying them in hens is a hassle and quite dirty. So they created money. But what should soldiers do with money if nobody wanted it?
So the kings decided that taxes had to be paid with money, turning their realms economy into a money-seeking society. Since only soldier had money, the economy turned into an army-supporting enterprise.
At least that is what archeoligists and ethnologists will tell you. Most economists will do a very different story.
And btw. don't try to tell that to those "government is always bad and we do money without them" guys.
I just looked it up and in the US you can pay your federal taxes in cash at various gas and continent stations"Your federal taxes" meaning "federal tax on gasoline"? Or "your federal income tax"?
You can pay your income taxes in cash at various retail stores around the country:
https://www.irs.gov/payments/pay-with-cash-at-a-retail-partner
So, here's an epic FU story I just remembered.This is pretty glorious
Back in the 1980s or 90s a dear friend of mine worked for a factory in Texas. The management of the firm got a brilliant idea from the good idea fairy and implemented it in secret.
They were going to cut their labor costs big time!
Basically, everyone came to work Monday morning to discover they no longer worked for the company. The company had hired an employee leasing firm to provide employees for them, so now they worked for this employee leasing firm -- for less pay and benefits.
Three fourths of the employees at the factory walked off the job that morning and didn't come back.
Well, another week goes by. Through three relevant meetings I've heard:You're not wrong, it isn't at all rational. Life and times of a consultancy though at this level. Asking for anything at all from another group, HR to literally do their job in this case, requires a political trade-off. It also requires the C suit to spend 10 consecutive minutes focusing on the division they run instead of how they can get promoted or an extra half percent on their bonus, (or actual more important things, to be fair) which probably explains the 9 month wait time. We bill our time in 6 minute increments and our company #2 starts her day by reviewing yesterday's numbers...It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $.I'm baffled by this. Why does it cost anyone political points to fill a staffing need? Can't someone just say to whoever has the authority, "Swashbucklinstache would be a great fit to lead tasks X, y, and Z, so I propose we offer her $300k and the title Chief Sub-Panjandrum if she will accept those responsibilities"?
Not a surprise FI is on the mind, nor that more sanely run startups are eating our lunch.
I did my boss a favor and let him know that under no circumstances will I be accepting these roles without title and compensation addressed, in line with my latest email from fall 2020, and that if I'm in any meeting where someone describes me as "role X lead" I will be speaking up to correct them regardless of who is in attendance.
He said he'll take it to the C suit. 37th time's the charm, here's hoping.I did my boss a favor and let him know that under no circumstances will I be accepting these roles without title and compensation addressed, in line with my latest email from fall 2020, and that if I'm in any meeting where someone describes me as "role X lead" I will be speaking up to correct them regardless of who is in attendance.
Niiiiice, what was his reply?
What happened to the factory? I would hope something horrible, but I suspect probably a few days lost productivity until they staffed back up again?
It's sad the amount of bullshit that wouldn't happen if everyone just had some FU money and didn't put up with it. Or maybe there'd be way more bullshit because some people would just be assholes w/ their FU money?
This one is definitely popcorn-worthy. I want to know what happens next!Well, another week goes by. Through three relevant meetings I've heard:You're not wrong, it isn't at all rational. Life and times of a consultancy though at this level. Asking for anything at all from another group, HR to literally do their job in this case, requires a political trade-off. It also requires the C suit to spend 10 consecutive minutes focusing on the division they run instead of how they can get promoted or an extra half percent on their bonus, (or actual more important things, to be fair) which probably explains the 9 month wait time. We bill our time in 6 minute increments and our company #2 starts her day by reviewing yesterday's numbers...It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $.I'm baffled by this. Why does it cost anyone political points to fill a staffing need? Can't someone just say to whoever has the authority, "Swashbucklinstache would be a great fit to lead tasks X, y, and Z, so I propose we offer her $300k and the title Chief Sub-Panjandrum if she will accept those responsibilities"?
Not a surprise FI is on the mind, nor that more sanely run startups are eating our lunch.
A) separately, HR might make everyone doing your current role equal to your role, even for people doing versions 10% as complicated (roles I groomed them into and gave away 5+ years and 3 promotions ago)
B) in plans and meetings I've heard you're being put down as doing & owning the new roles, with the old people in as backup
C) we just did annual goals so I'm sure taking these roles was in yours
D) has this gone so far that you're just doing this now? I don't think we'll get any backing from (c suit requesting it who oversees these roles) on anything related to this but let me know if you need anything and I can try my best.
I did my boss a favor and let him know that under no circumstances will I be accepting these roles without title and compensation addressed, in line with my latest email from fall 2020, and that if I'm in any meeting where someone describes me as "role X lead" I will be speaking up to correct them regardless of who is in attendance.
Happy Monday everyone.
Leadership was totally floored when I resigned and started panicking over an upcoming big important meeting with the shit client. They wanted me to still attend. I said nopey nope nope.
“That’ll teach (coworker) not to try to hide behind others on stuff like that.”
“That’ll teach (coworker) not to try to hide behind others on stuff like that.”
Now we need an Awesome Levels of FU Pettiness thread
Hmmm, this sounds a bit familiar, but for a slightly different reason. Wasn't part of this scheme that the prices quoted did not include freight? So the customer paid cost +freight, which isn't quite the same as 50% savings?You can pay your income taxes in cash at various retail stores around the country:
https://www.irs.gov/payments/pay-with-cash-at-a-retail-partner
I did not know that! (Obviously.) Sorry for the hijack, ya'll. Here's a true story for your trouble.
ETA: Did I tell this one before?? Long ago I meant not to tell it, to maintain anonymity. After writing this, it occurred to me that I've gotten slack lately and may have told it - probably in this very thread! But I can't find it. Anyway, enjoy this telling of the tale.
***
Sometimes it doesn't take a lot of cash to say FU to an employer. Sometimes it just takes a conscience, or a couple months' pay in the bank. That was my situation when I took down a multimillion dollar securities fraud.
I didn't know at first that I was working for crooks. I was just an early 20something with no job who answered an ad for "unlimited pay, make your own hours", aka commission sales. The product in that pre-internet era was a buying club membership for home furnishings. They trained you to make this hour long scripted pitch from a flip book, face to face with a customer at their home, to explain how their $700 lifetime membership would save them thousands of dollars on all the furniture purchases they'd make for the rest of their lives. If they bit, they could visit the showroom forever, peruse paper catalogs, and order from All The Major Manufacturers at wholesale pricing, meaning 50% off retail catalog price (though they had to pay 10% service fee).
Not as crazy as it sounds now, depending on the customer's purchasing habits, because retail was stodgy then and plenty of people would get at least some savings from it over time. Still a tough sell, but I closed a few before giving up the ghost. By then the owners had recognized other talents in me, and I became the Accounts Payable Manager at the princely rate of $4.25/hour. Hey, it was 90 cents above minimum wage!
The original proposition was legit, I soon found, in that real customers who had bought memberships would come in and order stuff. They'd pick out $3200 of furniture and write a $1600 check, and their furniture would be shipped to the store, and they'd come pick it up. They were happy enough, the business did what it said, all good.
It took me a while to detect the flaw - because it wasn't in the core business. It was in the execution that the owners had slipped from legitimate creativity into dubious schemes and, eventually, trouble. At first they’d done great in volume of membership sales, raking in cash from memberships. In our rural area, it more than paid the cost of a nice showroom with a little warehouse in the back and couple of clerks. When sales slowed, they hired new people (like me) to beat the bushes, maybe sell a few friends. Then came the fatal brainstorm: financing.
$700 was a lot for a membership, so they arranged a credit line where the customer could just make monthly payments until the $700 was paid off. The owners got $700 up front in commissions and hired a "Finance Manager" to handle the paperwork. The lender got paid over time, everyone happy. Interest was an ungodly 24%, but once the dotted line was signed, who cared?
I think the trouble began when they realized how much money 24% was. Wanting a slice, they started putting out ads in local newspaper of our rural area offering high interest to individuals, so that they could use the borrowed money to finance the contracts. “High” for the individuals might be 10% - a lot better than a savings account, better than bonds even back then, but enough to leave the owners a fat 14% profit. Perhaps a legitimate deal there too. Creative, eh?
By the time I started, they’d fallen behind on paying suppliers, maybe by spending a little too much on motorcycles and flying lessons, which was why I was hired. “Managing” the accounts receivable turned out to mean persuading angry furniture makers to send us the customers’ furniture when we hadn’t paid for the last batch yet! Once I understood, I showed backbone by proposing a deal of my own. “I’ll get us off hold,” I told the owners, “but you have to give me the service fee to use against our back bills.” I didn’t mean me personally, I mean my department got the money to use for catching up. It took a month or two to get the hang of persuading the suppliers and getting actual shipments in, but it worked. Slowly but surely, I was working down the backlog, getting all the orders filled, reducing what we owed. Until I realized nobody was selling memberships any more.
I’d been one of the last people to sell any memberships. A few people tried after me, but failed as quickly as I had, and no else was starting. The owners weren’t selling any either. But in the newspaper, there were ads where they were borrowing money for new contracts. Where was the money going?
I started asking questions to the nice ol’ country lady at the front desk who’d been there for years. Yep, there were people coming in and depositing money for the financing. Little old ladies putting in tens of thousands of dollars sometimes. Were any memberships being sold? Haven’t seen any lately. Well if there’s no sales, how will they pay back the promissory notes to the little old ladies?
“I don’t know,” she replied. “What are you thinking?”
I gulped and finally said, Well, they’re not getting any money from my department because we’re just catching up. I guess someday the service fees would be something, but it doesn’t seem like enough to pay the whole business. Honestly, I think I need to write a letter to the state that they’re taking people’s money and probably can’t pay it back.
“Well, are you gonna write ‘em?”
If they’re able to pay it back, interrupting them would make the whole thing to fall apart, and actually cause them not to pay the little old ladies. Have they gone up and down in sales before, or just gradually sold less and less? Less and less, she said. Well, I probably better write the state. I’ve never done anything like this before, I guess it’ll take a few days.
“Keep me posted,” she said.
Shortly thereafter, the owners began a new sales campaign. Activity buzzed all around. I delayed my letter and told the lady. But then, after a few weeks, they ran out of energy. “I’m gonna have to write,” I finally said. “Keep me posted,” again.
Three days later, having written fifteen pages longhand at home in the evenings but not yet sent the letter, I looked up from my desk to see three huge dudes in blue uniforms at the showroom door. They were state police, and they wanted to see the Treasurer. Shortly thereafter, I arrived at work in the morning to find padlocks on the door. The owners were sentenced to sixteen months in state prison for securities fraud. As I understand it, the promissory notes they gave the individual lenders should have been registered as securities but weren't.
Eventually I realized how the cards collapsed. The clerk lady had told her buddy, the finance manager, that the jig was up. Figuring it was better to report than be one of the people charged, Finance Manager reported to the state. I don’t think the little old ladies were ever paid.
Hmmm, this sounds a bit familiar, but for a slightly different reason. Wasn't part of this scheme that the prices quoted did not include freight? So the customer paid cost +freight, which isn't quite the same as 50% savings?
This one doesn’t fit into the typical employee bucks the employer narrative, but there’s still a good-humored FU in here.
We’re represented by a union, but work in a right-to-work/open shop state, so membership typically runs in the 25-35% range. But around contract negotiation time, the union goes on a big membership drive to try to have a better negotiating position (they’re typically able to get it up to 60-70% through the vote, and then it promptly falls back to usual levels until the next negotiation).
So a few years ago during one of those drives, they ask (coworker) to join. He keeps saying no, and eventually throws out that if the recruiter can get (lead, who isn’t at his desk but sits right across the aisle from (coworker)) to join, he’ll join too.
I’m not sure if (lead) is against all unions in general, but he has been fairly vocal about how he sees out union as worthless, so (coworker) had good reason to believe it wouldn’t happen.
So the recruiter comes back when (lead) is around and does his typical pitch, and (lead) of course says no. So then the recruiter mentions that the main reason he’s asking is that (coworker) said he’d join if (lead) did.
And (lead) says “Oh, in that case, sign me up.”
I heard about it later, and in that conversation (lead) said something to the effect of “That’ll teach (coworker) not to try to hide behind others on stuff like that.”
I have an epic FU story, but I did not have the FU money at the time to back it up, and its something that has come back to bite me in the ass over the years (small field). I still don't care and I'd do it the same way.
I worked for a private medical group that consisted of 11 people, with 5 of them being partners.
*snip*
Well, so far today I've heard from the internal client that they really want someone in this role ASAP, with a response rom my to-be peer that they've seen me put in the role on paper already. The client is politically savvy enough to see what's happening and quickly changed the subject.This one is definitely popcorn-worthy. I want to know what happens next!Well, another week goes by. Through three relevant meetings I've heard:You're not wrong, it isn't at all rational. Life and times of a consultancy though at this level. Asking for anything at all from another group, HR to literally do their job in this case, requires a political trade-off. It also requires the C suit to spend 10 consecutive minutes focusing on the division they run instead of how they can get promoted or an extra half percent on their bonus, (or actual more important things, to be fair) which probably explains the 9 month wait time. We bill our time in 6 minute increments and our company #2 starts her day by reviewing yesterday's numbers...It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $.I'm baffled by this. Why does it cost anyone political points to fill a staffing need? Can't someone just say to whoever has the authority, "Swashbucklinstache would be a great fit to lead tasks X, y, and Z, so I propose we offer her $300k and the title Chief Sub-Panjandrum if she will accept those responsibilities"?
Not a surprise FI is on the mind, nor that more sanely run startups are eating our lunch.
A) separately, HR might make everyone doing your current role equal to your role, even for people doing versions 10% as complicated (roles I groomed them into and gave away 5+ years and 3 promotions ago)
B) in plans and meetings I've heard you're being put down as doing & owning the new roles, with the old people in as backup
C) we just did annual goals so I'm sure taking these roles was in yours
D) has this gone so far that you're just doing this now? I don't think we'll get any backing from (c suit requesting it who oversees these roles) on anything related to this but let me know if you need anything and I can try my best.
I did my boss a favor and let him know that under no circumstances will I be accepting these roles without title and compensation addressed, in line with my latest email from fall 2020, and that if I'm in any meeting where someone describes me as "role X lead" I will be speaking up to correct them regardless of who is in attendance.
Happy Monday everyone.
Well, so far today I've heard from the internal client that they really want someone in this role ASAP, with a response rom my to-be peer that they've seen me put in the role on paper already. The client is politically savvy enough to see what's happening and quickly changed the subject.
Later in the meeting they asked me to follow up with the person currently in the role about getting a name assigned to some task, with organizing such things being a key part of the role. Current role-ee (-er?) gave an answer essentially indicating they're not considering themselves accountable for getting the answer any longer, indirectly implying that it was up to me. My to-be peer, who is a nice person but sometimes misses the subtlety (see above) IMs me innocently suggesting that, no joke, I might be a good fit for doing that task if we don't have a name.
Yep. Still developing of course, but silence to the person currently in the role and joking deflecting to the to-be peer, just because they're not politically savvy/important enough to hear the truth honestly and were genuinely trying to be helpful, like a doe in the woods on their first "opening day". I am starting to tire of repeatedly being put in a position where the truth is "no one knows, because my great-grandboss can't answer a simple question in 10 months" to a politically connected internal client of his, who already knows that's the answer but benefits from me being the one to say it out loud. I think I'll let my boss know that tomorrow and re-verbalize that I've bit my tongue for the last time on the matter and he should engage in serious CYA now if he hasn't already. My CYA is a lot of money in the bank and a paper trail for good measure. Of course, I'd make the point politely and professionally or just stop attending meetings, no sense being rash. Unlike this absolute legend: https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/city-comptroller-i-said-no-to-filner-credit-card-expenses/ (https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/city-comptroller-i-said-no-to-filner-credit-card-expenses/)Well, so far today I've heard from the internal client that they really want someone in this role ASAP, with a response rom my to-be peer that they've seen me put in the role on paper already. The client is politically savvy enough to see what's happening and quickly changed the subject.
Later in the meeting they asked me to follow up with the person currently in the role about getting a name assigned to some task, with organizing such things being a key part of the role. Current role-ee (-er?) gave an answer essentially indicating they're not considering themselves accountable for getting the answer any longer, indirectly implying that it was up to me. My to-be peer, who is a nice person but sometimes misses the subtlety (see above) IMs me innocently suggesting that, no joke, I might be a good fit for doing that task if we don't have a name.
I assume/hope your responses have been either silence or 'this is not my responsibility'?
Whitfield said he did not have any problem denying the mayor’s office’s requests. He said the best advice he’s received came from his boss from his first job: Always put some money away so that you have the independence to say no, even to people above you.
“I’ve got a lot of fucking money in the bank,” Whitfield said. “It allows me to sleep at night. It allows me to do my job with a whole lot integrity and not worry about losing it.”
https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/city-comptroller-i-said-no-to-filner-credit-card-expenses/ (https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/city-comptroller-i-said-no-to-filner-credit-card-expenses/)QuoteWhitfield said he did not have any problem denying the mayor’s office’s requests. He said the best advice he’s received came from his boss from his first job: Always put some money away so that you have the independence to say no, even to people above you.
“I’ve got a lot of fucking money in the bank,” Whitfield said. “It allows me to sleep at night. It allows me to do my job with a whole lot integrity and not worry about losing it.”
Lol, the SD mayor is clearly corrupt, but the Comptroller also sounds like a pain in the ass. Glad he has FU money to enable being a pain in the ass, but he seems like the kind of guy who makes other people wish they had their own FU money.
I work with someone who "questions every expense" for our department. It just gets really old having to explain things like why I used colored paper for a particular batch of copies because she's just stopping by to make sure I know that "colored paper costs more than white paper." Umm, yeah, I'm aware, but I get paid so much that the time I just spent justifying my easily justifiable use of the colored paper for that task last week has now wiped out all of the pennies you "saved" our employer for the entire year with your pettiness. She's also convinced that employees are stealing the dry ice because less get signed out than gets delivered each week. She doesn't understand the concepts of sublimation and thermal energy . . . she wanted to actually install a camera in the area where the dry ice is stored to catch the culprits.
Lol, some day I should submit my resignation letter on colored paper. Pink!
The answer to what you do at home with dry ice is always putting dish soap on it and running water over it or doing a ribbon seal like this:Lol, the SD mayor is clearly corrupt, but the Comptroller also sounds like a pain in the ass. Glad he has FU money to enable being a pain in the ass, but he seems like the kind of guy who makes other people wish they had their own FU money.
I work with someone who "questions every expense" for our department. It just gets really old having to explain things like why I used colored paper for a particular batch of copies because she's just stopping by to make sure I know that "colored paper costs more than white paper." Umm, yeah, I'm aware, but I get paid so much that the time I just spent justifying my easily justifiable use of the colored paper for that task last week has now wiped out all of the pennies you "saved" our employer for the entire year with your pettiness. She's also convinced that employees are stealing the dry ice because less get signed out than gets delivered each week. She doesn't understand the concepts of sublimation and thermal energy . . . she wanted to actually install a camera in the area where the dry ice is stored to catch the culprits.
Lol, some day I should submit my resignation letter on colored paper. Pink!
What does she think people do with the dry ice? Do a Corona-party every week? What do you do with that stuff privately?
Any yeas, I have seen (and heard a lot) about paper usage tracking. Somehow they never seem to realize that even if they prevent every private printout their wage alone is more expensive. Generally people have the moral thinking that 2 pages a month because it just happend is okay, but not 20 and don't do that at work.
Or the all-time favorite of the genious controller who insisted on thinner toilet paper and was then surprised that people used more.
But the penny counter reminds me of when my university finally got rid of the job of going to every dorm and turning on/off the ability to either make or track the time used for long distance phone calls. Paying the department to do that cost much more than just letting everyone use it.
I have never considered having FU money because I have always loved my job (I am a nurse). However I look back at my career and I know that I have not applied for promotion because I did not want the extra stress and did not need more money. The extra money was minute and to me definitely not worth it. Having that option is so worth it.
I am starting to tire of repeatedly being put in a position where the truth is "no one knows, because my great-grandboss can't answer a simple question in 10 months" to a politically connected internal client of his, who already knows that's the answer but benefits from me being the one to say it out loud. I think I'll let my boss know that tomorrow and re-verbalize that I've bit my tongue for the last time on the matter and he should engage in serious CYA now if he hasn't already.
Sadly I'm getting 2-3 'requests' a day and didn't want to just spam the thread everyday!I am starting to tire of repeatedly being put in a position where the truth is "no one knows, because my great-grandboss can't answer a simple question in 10 months" to a politically connected internal client of his, who already knows that's the answer but benefits from me being the one to say it out loud. I think I'll let my boss know that tomorrow and re-verbalize that I've bit my tongue for the last time on the matter and he should engage in serious CYA now if he hasn't already.
It's been almost two weeks! Anything new? Maybe you're not updating the forum because you're off on a beach somewhere enjoying your FU money ;-)
...I'm saving 115k a year, so it would be ideal if this company would just stay reasonable for the next 1-3 years...
Yep, exactly this. The company is essentially totally recession proof as well, and a lot of my value is accrued middle management company-specific knowledge. Even more, if I say no to these roles it will kill career progression here but it's very unlikely there'd be any further consequence. So I'm looking, but the deal would have to be sweet to jump. As little as another year or two could totally remove $ from the equation....I'm saving 115k a year, so it would be ideal if this company would just stay reasonable for the next 1-3 years...
That, right there, is the hard part about being so close to full Financial Independance when you're young. In my experience, the devil you know is often worse than the devil you don't - since you can vet for and negotiate against the things you don't like. I say, keep interviewing and looking at the options that are out there. No reason to be unhappy and forced into something you shouldn't be doing.
You aren't simply a cog to be moved around at your boss' (or boss' boss') desires. You are hired to fulfill a role and you enjoy it. More, you're willing to make the move and provide meaningfully higher ROI to your company. There is, quite honestly, no reason for them to force you into this without more pay.
And if you really do like it, then maybe showing them an offer from another company will be enough for them to write the check for your transition.
Another bonus of being a Mustachian and ex-Boglehead is that at my current employer, I complained about our crappy 401k. The owners told me to write up a paper showing proof, which convinced them. Ended up moving the 401k to Guideline, reducing employer fees/costs by 77%.
I have to wait for the lawsuits to settle before I give any details, but I never thought I'd have a story for this thread. It's not in my nature to burn bridges on the way out, but the company fired the first salvo. And it may not be 'epic', but having FU money has certainly given me the safety net to do what is right for my health.
I have to wait for the lawsuits to settle before I give any details, but I never thought I'd have a story for this thread. It's not in my nature to burn bridges on the way out, but the company fired the first salvo. And it may not be 'epic', but having FU money has certainly given me the safety net to do what is right for my health.
I don't know how it can fail to be epic with lawsuits involved. Can't wait to hear it.
I have to wait for the lawsuits to settle before I give any details, but I never thought I'd have a story for this thread. It's not in my nature to burn bridges on the way out, but the company fired the first salvo. And it may not be 'epic', but having FU money has certainly given me the safety net to do what is right for my health.
I have to wait for the lawsuits to settle before I give any details, but I never thought I'd have a story for this thread. It's not in my nature to burn bridges on the way out, but the company fired the first salvo. And it may not be 'epic', but having FU money has certainly given me the safety net to do what is right for my health.
I don't know how it can fail to be epic with lawsuits involved. Can't wait to hear it.
This story made me think of this thread. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56977650 (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56977650)
In a nutshell, a cleaner in a bank in the UK quit and retired after being verbally abused by one of the bankers. She left a note telling them that she had quit because of the verbal abuse and advising them to be kinder which her son posted online. Good for her!
This story made me think of this thread. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56977650 (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56977650)
In a nutshell, a cleaner in a bank in the UK quit and retired after being verbally abused by one of the bankers. She left a note telling them that she had quit because of the verbal abuse and advising them to be kinder which her son posted online. Good for her!
Thanks for sharing this. The note is totally right - we are ALL no better than the cleaner. Some people need to have their attitudes checked.
I was going through our local international airport last month. I was struck again by how clean the bathroom was - they are always clean! I scanned the QR code and left a compliment and thank you on the complaint form. This makes me glad I did!
Settlements usually have a non-disparagement clause so you have to be careful what you say.
Well, that was an interesting rabbit hole. Thanks!Settlements usually have a non-disparagement clause so you have to be careful what you say.
Here's hoping that our anonymous forum provides just enough wiggle room for the story to be told!
In the spirit of Dickens, character names can be expressive, even while in our forum, they obscure identities. Soon we will learn the secret tale behind this generation's Jarndyce v Jarndyce. Right???
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.I got a promotion so I figure my company likes me enough that I could push harder against useless meetings. I'm on two projects where the project manager likes to hold meetings twice a week to "touch base" (ugh). I'm fine with once a week but apparently I'm supposed to be grateful its not like some other projects where they meet every day... I rarely have much to contribute to these meetings and almost everything could be handled with a few e-mails anyway.
So this week I declined two recurring meetings with barely any justification, all four meetings next week (vacation), and the first two meetings the week after that (no justification at all). That was on Monday and the project manager hasn't said a thing. In fact, he ended up cancelling the other two meetings this week so it looks like I'll be able to avoid ten meetings in a row!The CEO of our company regularly sends out emails to the effect of "if you're in a meeting that you don't feel is worth your time, you have my personal permission to walk out". ;-)
The CEO of our company regularly sends out emails to the effect of "if you're in a meeting that you don't feel is worth your time, you have my personal permission to walk out". ;-)
One firm here in the UK was reputed to have a "money" clock in its meeting rooms - everyone at the meeting had to put in their hourly rate when they entered the room and the clock totted up the cost of the meeting for as long as it continued, as an incentive to finish.That is absolutely brilliant!
One firm here in the UK was reputed to have a "money" clock in its meeting rooms - everyone at the meeting had to put in their hourly rate when they entered the room and the clock totted up the cost of the meeting for as long as it continued, as an incentive to finish.That is absolutely brilliant!
One firm here in the UK was reputed to have a "money" clock in its meeting rooms - everyone at the meeting had to put in their hourly rate when they entered the room and the clock totted up the cost of the meeting for as long as it continued, as an incentive to finish.you could see that as an incentive to finish... or an incentive to keep watching that tick up while you do next to nothing.
To be fair, this was BE (Before Email).One firm here in the UK was reputed to have a "money" clock in its meeting rooms - everyone at the meeting had to put in their hourly rate when they entered the room and the clock totted up the cost of the meeting for as long as it continued, as an incentive to finish.you could see that as an incentive to finish... or an incentive to keep watching that tick up while you do next to nothing.
In all seriousness, most meetings should be emails. And most emails shouldn't exist.
I think it sort of does, it does lead to a strong company-wide awareness that meetings aren't free, and unless people are directly asked to attend a meeting I think there's no pushback if you don't. The principle applies more strongly to large meetings, if you have a one on one with your manager and you walk out, I doubt that would be appreciated... ;-)The CEO of our company regularly sends out emails to the effect of "if you're in a meeting that you don't feel is worth your time, you have my personal permission to walk out". ;-)
And does it work? Do people at your company regularly walk out of unproductive meetings? Or are your company's meetings generally productive?
Well, that was an interesting rabbit hole. Thanks!Settlements usually have a non-disparagement clause so you have to be careful what you say.
Here's hoping that our anonymous forum provides just enough wiggle room for the story to be told!
In the spirit of Dickens, character names can be expressive, even while in our forum, they obscure identities. Soon we will learn the secret tale behind this generation's Jarndyce v Jarndyce. Right???
While we're waiting on something actually Epic and/or FU, I'll share our most recent story.
Wife was offered a job contingent on her getting a bachelor's degree. Turns out they couldn't actually offer that, so she was offered a different position with a verbal promise that the original job would be hers when she did get the degree. She'd have to work nights in the interim, which she hates, but figured it'd be for a year max.
A year passes, she graduates, they post the job listing, and her manager explains that there have been a few other applicants. Basically, prepping my wife for the possibility that she might not get the position. Few days later, wife puts in a PTO request to start burning up the weeks she's accumulated, states she wants to go to days when she gets back, AND asks her manager to fill out a referral form for her because she's started applying to other jobs. She got the official offer (for the originally promised position) within the week.
While we're waiting on something actually Epic and/or FU, I'll share our most recent story.
Wife was offered a job contingent on her getting a bachelor's degree. Turns out they couldn't actually offer that, so she was offered a different position with a verbal promise that the original job would be hers when she did get the degree. She'd have to work nights in the interim, which she hates, but figured it'd be for a year max.
A year passes, she graduates, they post the job listing, and her manager explains that there have been a few other applicants. Basically, prepping my wife for the possibility that she might not get the position. Few days later, wife puts in a PTO request to start burning up the weeks she's accumulated, states she wants to go to days when she gets back, AND asks her manager to fill out a referral form for her because she's started applying to other jobs. She got the official offer (for the originally promised position) within the week.
While we're waiting on something actually Epic and/or FU, I'll share our most recent story.
Wife was offered a job contingent on her getting a bachelor's degree. Turns out they couldn't actually offer that, so she was offered a different position with a verbal promise that the original job would be hers when she did get the degree. She'd have to work nights in the interim, which she hates, but figured it'd be for a year max.
A year passes, she graduates, they post the job listing, and her manager explains that there have been a few other applicants. Basically, prepping my wife for the possibility that she might not get the position. Few days later, wife puts in a PTO request to start burning up the weeks she's accumulated, states she wants to go to days when she gets back, AND asks her manager to fill out a referral form for her because she's started applying to other jobs. She got the official offer (for the originally promised position) within the week.
Absolutely. This totally fits and is really the best case in my opinion. FU money stories tend to end with jobs over and bridges being burned. These can be exciting and are the best popcorn stories often :-). However, as a non-confrontational person, I'd personally much prefer something where you just say, this is how it is (because you have the sense of freedom to do it regardless of the consequences), and the company fixes the problem (that they should have done already) and makes the situation better. Rock on for her!
Didn't think I'd have anything to add to this thread again but while we're waiting for epic stories I thought I'd share my getting a raise story.
I've been doing some extra work with my old boss at $3k per year. She had a specific skill and she was teaching me so that if anything happened to her I knew what needed to be done. I had been assisting her for about 4 years at this rate which is fine. I was learning.
Long story short, old boss left and new boss came in this year and asked if I was going to continue doing said skill. I said I wasn't going to do it for $3k (I used the gratitude sandwich so it was alot nicer than just me saying "No"). He asked me how much? I said $16k. He said ok. Win win.
Side note he said "Ok" so quickly I wonder if I should have gone higher. $16k is fair but it's fun to wonder. :D
Side note he said "Ok" so quickly I wonder if I should have gone higher. $16k is fair but it's fun to wonder. :D
Side note he said "Ok" so quickly I wonder if I should have gone higher. $16k is fair but it's fun to wonder. :D
That is where we are to date. Still waiting on a plan from the group. Will probably be a big topic at our next meeting I'm sure.
That is where we are to date. Still waiting on a plan from the group. Will probably be a big topic at our next meeting I'm sure.
Nice. In my experience, no matter how much notice you give, they wait until the last week to start doing anything about it.
That is where we are to date. Still waiting on a plan from the group. Will probably be a big topic at our next meeting I'm sure.
Nice. In my experience, no matter how much notice you give, they wait until the last week to start doing anything about it.
I've really been enjoying the quietly epic stories lately. No big crash-n-burn flounce, just the financial security to ask politely but firmly for what you want without fear of the consequences - and getting it!
That is where we are to date. Still waiting on a plan from the group. Will probably be a big topic at our next meeting I'm sure.
Nice. In my experience, no matter how much notice you give, they wait until the last week to start doing anything about it.
Agreed!!!
That is where we are to date. Still waiting on a plan from the group. Will probably be a big topic at our next meeting I'm sure.
Nice. In my experience, no matter how much notice you give, they wait until the last week to start doing anything about it.
Agreed!!!
For sure. After all, you may come to your senses and change your mind. Like that horse might learn to sing!
I gave two months notice leaving my last job and they didn't even advertise the position until three months after I left. In the subsequent two and a half years I have seen them post that position seven times for a team of three people. They're on their third generation because no one will stay nowThat is where we are to date. Still waiting on a plan from the group. Will probably be a big topic at our next meeting I'm sure.
Nice. In my experience, no matter how much notice you give, they wait until the last week to start doing anything about it.
Agreed!!!
For sure. After all, you may come to your senses and change your mind. Like that horse might learn to sing!
A week is even generous in my experience! No joke, when I left my old job my management told me who my replacements would be 2 business days before my departure... and I had given 4 weeks notice. Fortunately I had already identified (mostly the same) replacements and trained many of them, but that's only because I cared about the people I worked with and didn't want to burn any bridges. When my management gave me the list, I merely pointed them to the people that I had already trained... Wasn't my problem anymore.
I gave two months notice leaving my last job and they didn't even advertise the position until three months after I left. In the subsequent two and a half years I have seen them post that position seven times for a team of three people. They're on their third generation because no one will stay now
HR had no idea how to handle it and were hemming and hawing over if it were possible or not.
I hate to generalise, but it seems that many HR Departments baulk at approving leave that they deem 'excessive' regardless of Company policies.
In 2005 I was able to book a whole year off work using my accrued Annual Leave and Long Service Leave here in Australia. My Manager approved it all and it was not going to cause any staff shortges etc, but HR and senior management still chased me for 'more information' simply because I was getting something they didn't think I deserved😂
HR had no idea how to handle it and were hemming and hawing over if it were possible or not.
Uh, yes of course it's possible. The question isn't "can we do this" it's more "learn to do your job and put it into the system".
It consistently shocks me that employers think they have some say over us. Everything is negotiable. Nothing is set in stone. HR's "policy" is just that, a policy which can be altered, adjusted, and bent to meet the current person's needs.
And yet, HR departments always seem blindsided by this.
I hate to generalise, but it seems that many HR Departments baulk at approving leave that they deem 'excessive' regardless of Company policies.
In 2005 I was able to book a whole year off work using my accrued Annual Leave and Long Service Leave here in Australia. My Manager approved it all and it was not going to cause any staff shortges etc, but HR and senior management still chased me for 'more information' simply because I was getting something they didn't think I deserved😂
I hate to generalise, but it seems that many HR Departments baulk at approving leave that they deem 'excessive' regardless of Company policies.
In 2005 I was able to book a whole year off work using my accrued Annual Leave and Long Service Leave here in Australia. My Manager approved it all and it was not going to cause any staff shortges etc, but HR and senior management still chased me for 'more information' simply because I was getting something they didn't think I deserved😂
I think the biggest factor sometimes in not wanting to grant long leaves or atypical work hours is jealousy, plain and simple.
I had a job many years ago where I negotiated a four 8-hr-day work week schedule before accepting the position. I felt it was important to have the time with my young children, and the pay wasn't super high, so 32 hours seemed reasonable based upon the salary level the could give me compared to previous positions I had held.
There was a women in an HR function who made it very clear over and over that she resented my 4 day schedule. She told me straight up within the first month that she didn't think the boss should have allowed it. But, bottom line, she was just jealous, because she could have had the same schedule if she just asked for it, but she was not willing/able to take the pay cut that an 80% work week would have entailed. So petty. So inflexible. Ugh. Lol, I should have remarked to her off-hand in an unrelated conversation that petty inflexibility has been shown to be a sign of low intelligence. I need to work on my aristocratic snark.
I think the biggest factor sometimes in not wanting to grant long leaves or atypical work hours is jealousy, plain and simple.
I had a job many years ago where I negotiated a four 8-hr-day work week schedule before accepting the position. I felt it was important to have the time with my young children, and the pay wasn't super high, so 32 hours seemed reasonable based upon the salary level the could give me compared to previous positions I had held.
There was a women in an HR function who made it very clear over and over that she resented my 4 day schedule. She told me straight up within the first month that she didn't think the boss should have allowed it. But, bottom line, she was just jealous, because she could have had the same schedule if she just asked for it, but she was not willing/able to take the pay cut that an 80% work week would have entailed. So petty. So inflexible. Ugh. Lol, I should have remarked to her off-hand in an unrelated conversation that petty inflexibility has been shown to be a sign of low intelligence. I need to work on my aristocratic snark.
It's a very dumb thing to get angry at. It's not even making an exception for you. Anyone could do it if they tried. People just can't afford/don't want to take a 20% pay cut. But then they get jealous of not having a 20% shorter work week? I was expecting some snark when I went to 32hrs at work, and prepared what to say. "I've been living on a sailboat for the past 5 years to cut expenses and save money. You could do it too if you want to be able to take a 20% pay cut". But no one really said anything. Everyone at work is too reasonable. Very boring.
Yup. I've done this twice, when I had my kids. With company #1 and kid #1 they paid me hourly when I made the switch to 75%, though I was an exempt employee. It was great, because if I had a long week and worked 35 hr, I got paid for exactly what I worked.I think the biggest factor sometimes in not wanting to grant long leaves or atypical work hours is jealousy, plain and simple.
I had a job many years ago where I negotiated a four 8-hr-day work week schedule before accepting the position. I felt it was important to have the time with my young children, and the pay wasn't super high, so 32 hours seemed reasonable based upon the salary level the could give me compared to previous positions I had held.
There was a women in an HR function who made it very clear over and over that she resented my 4 day schedule. She told me straight up within the first month that she didn't think the boss should have allowed it. But, bottom line, she was just jealous, because she could have had the same schedule if she just asked for it, but she was not willing/able to take the pay cut that an 80% work week would have entailed. So petty. So inflexible. Ugh. Lol, I should have remarked to her off-hand in an unrelated conversation that petty inflexibility has been shown to be a sign of low intelligence. I need to work on my aristocratic snark.
It's a very dumb thing to get angry at. It's not even making an exception for you. Anyone could do it if they tried. People just can't afford/don't want to take a 20% pay cut. But then they get jealous of not having a 20% shorter work week? I was expecting some snark when I went to 32hrs at work, and prepared what to say. "I've been living on a sailboat for the past 5 years to cut expenses and save money. You could do it too if you want to be able to take a 20% pay cut". But no one really said anything. Everyone at work is too reasonable. Very boring.
I hate to generalise, but it seems that many HR Departments baulk at approving leave that they deem 'excessive' regardless of Company policies.
In 2005 I was able to book a whole year off work using my accrued Annual Leave and Long Service Leave here in Australia. My Manager approved it all and it was not going to cause any staff shortges etc, but HR and senior management still chased me for 'more information' simply because I was getting something they didn't think I deserved😂
I wonder what kind of "more information" anyone is looking for in these kinds of situations. What did they really expect you to say, and why did they think it was any of their business? (Assuming you didn't work with anything super secret and they were afraid you'd take your intel and set up a competing business or start working for a competitor... In which case you could also have just quit and done that anyway.)
I'm planning to take a year off at some point (but from autumn to autumn rather than a calendar year, partly for tax reasons), and I am certainly thinking about what I will say to people when they ask out of curiosity or just in the form of small talk. But I don't expect anyone to chase me specifically to get more information. Time off is just time off.
Re long holidays - I worked for a firm that insisted that you had to take a 'long leave' minimum two weeks every year.
It was for anti-fraud purposes - they had been burned by a manager whose corruption was only discovered when he had gone to hospital for a long while - until then he had been a hero, never taking any time off (apart from a few days here and there) and so had always been able to cover his tracks...
My wife takes the next day as a mental health day, and drafts her resignation.
This Friday she handed the resignation letter to her manager. The managers response was 'oh? Do you have somewhere else to go?' and my wife cool as ice says 'no, I'm happy to go', spins round and exits the room.
Not just just because she left a place that doesn't support her
...I was a three year post doc, with rules with 40 days a month (Al/sl)...
Well. 6/30 came and went and I have new "other" project so status quo was humming along. BUT, unrelated, today they walked the great grandboss out (hourly billable company = immediately removed at that level). Says the plan is for his C suit boss to cover until a hire is made, which is much less than ideal since that person knows nothing about what we do as a non-tech person... Person that's been trying to get me to do their job said interim boss was going to be meeting with us and we should talk about the future of these roles so we can shape them how we want them to be a.k.a. one more avenue to try and shove the work off his plate. Pretty sure I'm going to say if you want me in this role that is an immediate 50% base pay increase, and keep interviewing in the background all the while.Sadly I'm getting 2-3 'requests' a day and didn't want to just spam the thread everyday!I am starting to tire of repeatedly being put in a position where the truth is "no one knows, because my great-grandboss can't answer a simple question in 10 months" to a politically connected internal client of his, who already knows that's the answer but benefits from me being the one to say it out loud. I think I'll let my boss know that tomorrow and re-verbalize that I've bit my tongue for the last time on the matter and he should engage in serious CYA now if he hasn't already.
It's been almost two weeks! Anything new? Maybe you're not updating the forum because you're off on a beach somewhere enjoying your FU money ;-)
The latest reading between the lines is that I think the great-grandboss is going to declare my boss accountable for these roles to not deal with it. For me that means that since it will then be a direct line up from me, as opposed to now where my "uncle" is accountable, it is more of a "reassignment" than a "we're interested in you taking on this stretch role if you're interested" deal. That should mean it is a little harder to say FU to my immediate boss than the faceless C suit, and doubly so because I'm senior enough in a fluid enough industry that this isn't really an inappropriate/uncommon sort of thing. (Consulting job descriptions are basically "get it done, level appropriately").
I proactively nipped that in the bud with my boss and made it clear that I do not care who is accountable for the role, my questions still stand. In the meantime I continue to take on the pieces that are interesting to me and either ignore, say no to, or do the others as slowly as possible.
The bigger piece is that, unfortunately, my main project work ends 6/30. We're a billable industry where you eat what you kill and I don't yet have anything lined up. So the closer we creep to that day the closer we get to me not really being able to say no, because I'd then be saying "instead of doing this role I would prefer to instead do nothing and still get paid for it." So I'm talking with my boss this week to try to find other project opportunities. If I get defaulted into the role I will still push for $$ up front and will make it very clear that I'm unhappy with being backdoored into things if we get there. It sucks, because this is a role that could be fun (strategy and process creation) and have outsized returns (growth) if a happy and motivated employee does it and "kept the lights on" returns if they're not.
I've also spent the weekend getting my resume in shape. My industry, tech/data, is on fire right now. I could credibly apply to senior individual contributor roles at better companies, senior analytics or product manager roles at peer companies, or associate/director of analytics positions at smaller companies. I got pinged last week by a big tech recruiter for a data science position that would double my total comp. We're talking this week. I'm not competitive really and they hand out interviews like candy but you only need one to say yes...
For context, I'm at 835k which is a 2.9% WR for my current expenses (24k avg. the last 8 years). My FIRE plans are atypical though, as they're either "I have no idea, I'm only 32, let's not lock us in to < 40k a year before life events" or "spend a few years AirBnbing in city centers where housing alone takes you to 4.5% WR, plus some seed money gifted for others' retirement, so maybe 1.3-1.6mm?" I'm saving 115k a year, so it would be ideal if this company would just stay reasonable for the next 1-3 years...
Because I have FU money, am trying to be more assertive.
I have valuable and unique skills that are widely recognized in the company. At the same time, I have no authority or assistance. I have a ton of autonomy. Problem is a Mark Twain-like thing that happens where my successes become attractive to poachers.
How to deal with this? Like, the one thing that keeps me going is my autonomy with my projects (which are collaborative, made even more difficult because I have no titular authority so I have to be diplomatic as fuck).
New guy just got hired days ago. Boss says, "Take your great ideas, and go work with him." Collaboratively, but with an implication that maybe I'll soon work *for* this guy.
I know it happens to men too, but as a woman in a male-dominated field, am so tired of being put under someone new -- who may or may not last and is often an idiot. (Yes of course I go in with an open mind, not a bad attitude, etc. etc.)
Asked my boss for a team to report to me and funding to grow the project. Response: "Sure! Talk to that new guy [whom I've never even met, not even in my department, but ostensibly similar skills to mine] and come up with a plan." I mean WTF????
Are my decades of experience and well documented years of results (highest in company) really meaningless in comparison to some "new guy" with a fancy title?
Yes.
^^^ThisBecause I have FU money, am trying to be more assertive.
I have valuable and unique skills that are widely recognized in the company. At the same time, I have no authority or assistance. I have a ton of autonomy. Problem is a Mark Twain-like thing that happens where my successes become attractive to poachers.
How to deal with this? Like, the one thing that keeps me going is my autonomy with my projects (which are collaborative, made even more difficult because I have no titular authority so I have to be diplomatic as fuck).
New guy just got hired days ago. Boss says, "Take your great ideas, and go work with him." Collaboratively, but with an implication that maybe I'll soon work *for* this guy.
I know it happens to men too, but as a woman in a male-dominated field, am so tired of being put under someone new -- who may or may not last and is often an idiot. (Yes of course I go in with an open mind, not a bad attitude, etc. etc.)
Asked my boss for a team to report to me and funding to grow the project. Response: "Sure! Talk to that new guy [whom I've never even met, not even in my department, but ostensibly similar skills to mine] and come up with a plan." I mean WTF????
Are my decades of experience and well documented years of results (highest in company) really meaningless in comparison to some "new guy" with a fancy title?
Leverage the FU money by finding another position externally.
Betcha in 24-48H when you give notice to current employer, you'll be given fancy title, more $$$, maybe a team, funding, etc. Magically appearing like a genie from an oil lamp.
At that point you decide if you want to stay or move on to the new employer.
I started as a developer at a megacorp nine years ago. Great job for the most part. I found this site shortly after being hired and have developed a good amount of FU money. This has led me to cut a lot of the office environment bs out of my day.
For example, when I first got hired and really needed the job, I kept my mouth shut in meetings unless I was spoken to and if the others got off topic and wasted lots of time arguing or chatting, I would just sit there and wait it out. What else could I do? But with FU money, I don't tolerate pointless meetings anymore. Recently I was in a meeting when my coding partner and I could have been working on a big project. Two people started bickering and it became clear that productivity ended and time wasting was going to be the rest of the meeting. I interrupted the project manager and the developer she was arguing with and said, "Bob and I are going to get to work. Have a nice afternoon." And we left, with Bob looking kind of stunned. Afterwards he told me that he's never seen anyone leave a meeting early. One of the people arguing reached out and apologized for their behavior and thanked me for bringing them to their senses.
FU money has also given me the ability to stick up for myself. Just yesterday, a coworker promised during our morning standup meeting that she'd have some important requirements to me ASAP. My boss agreed that this was very important and that those requirements should be prioritized so I could get the work done that day (lol). The day goes by and I busy myself with other things while waiting. Ten minutes before I log off (we're mostly still working from home at this point), the coworker presented me with what I needed and let my boss know. Instead of my boss questioning why it took my coworker the entire day to do this, leaving me no time, my boss instead thanked this coworker and told me to get started on them immediately. I told her I was finishing up something and it was the end of the day. She said this needed to be done immediately (it really doesn't, trust me). I simply said that the requirements should have been to me hours ago and that I'd start on them Monday. I logged off and haven't heard a peep.
FU money has also given the willingness to look for a permanent job working from home. The pandemic forced everyone at my job to work from home starting March 2020 and most are still doing this. Despite the great success the company has had in this work model, they suddenly decided that we "do our best work together" and that all employees will be in the physical office at least three days a week. I loooooove working from home and there isn't anything about my job that requires being at the office. The forced WFH experiment has proven that it works. The only reason they want developers back is micromanagement. I applied for permanent home work. The CIO himself has to approve it. My reasoning was honest - preference. I have already told my boss that if it's not approved I'll just find a job at any one of the abundant remote development jobs that are out there now. We'll see what happens.
It's a great feeling not to be tied down to a job.
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.
My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway. It's ridiculous.
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.
My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway. It's ridiculous.
A family member just told me he was already forced back. and he works almost completely with people on the other coast.... I just don't get. (I get that some bosses want to be controlling, or just a pain, but why in the world would the company think its worth paying big city downtown office building rent to do that. I owned and ran a business for 10 years with 8 employees that didn't need to be in an office so there was no way I ever considered blowing money on rent when I knew they'd view working form home as a perk anyway (and sure made everyone a lot more flexible when for the feast and famine times)
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.
My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway. It's ridiculous.
A family member just told me he was already forced back. and he works almost completely with people on the other coast.... I just don't get. (I get that some bosses want to be controlling, or just a pain, but why in the world would the company think its worth paying big city downtown office building rent to do that. I owned and ran a business for 10 years with 8 employees that didn't need to be in an office so there was no way I ever considered blowing money on rent when I knew they'd view working form home as a perk anyway (and sure made everyone a lot more flexible when for the feast and famine times)
I suspect a huge part of it is old-school managers who are clinging to the "that's the way we've always done it" mindset (with a healthy dose of "if people are in the office, then there's no chance of them doing personal things on *gasp* company time!!11).
Purely speculation on my part, though.
Another possibility is that they're paying for office space they haven't been using. They don't want to let good money go to waste. Nevermind about losing employees...I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.
My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway. It's ridiculous.
A family member just told me he was already forced back. and he works almost completely with people on the other coast.... I just don't get. (I get that some bosses want to be controlling, or just a pain, but why in the world would the company think its worth paying big city downtown office building rent to do that. I owned and ran a business for 10 years with 8 employees that didn't need to be in an office so there was no way I ever considered blowing money on rent when I knew they'd view working form home as a perk anyway (and sure made everyone a lot more flexible when for the feast and famine times)
I suspect a huge part of it is old-school managers who are clinging to the "that's the way we've always done it" mindset (with a healthy dose of "if people are in the office, then there's no chance of them doing personal things on *gasp* company time!!11).
Purely speculation on my part, though.
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.
My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway. It's ridiculous.
I once worked for a company that did contract work for the government. We were supporting networks in the middle East from TX. Every other week another engineer and I would swap working from home on Friday so that we could knock out tickets for a day without being interrupted. Then the company instituted a no work from home policy. Their thinking was if you are remote, you are not as efficient. Never mind that even in the office, we were still remote to those that we supported.
So then, instead of working from home, we would fly to the DC office and work a day from there. Since no one knew who we were, there was no interruptions. The bosses were ok with this because we were still in a company facility.
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.
My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway. It's ridiculous.
...
So then, instead of working from home, we would fly to the DC office and work a day from there. Since no one knew who we were, there was no interruptions. The bosses were ok with this because we were still in a company facility.
This is amazing! Would you fly into DC and home on the same day? Sounds like a quick way to rack up air miles, and get paid to sit on an airplane and read books/watch movies/etc. (one of the best perks of business travel, IMO).
...
So then, instead of working from home, we would fly to the DC office and work a day from there. Since no one knew who we were, there was no interruptions. The bosses were ok with this because we were still in a company facility.
This is amazing! Would you fly into DC and home on the same day? Sounds like a quick way to rack up air miles, and get paid to sit on an airplane and read books/watch movies/etc. (one of the best perks of business travel, IMO).
...snip....Please do.
But I could go on all day about the dumbassery that went on at that company.
This is amazing! Would you fly into DC and home on the same day? Sounds like a quick way to rack up air miles, and get paid to sit on an airplane and read books/watch movies/etc. (one of the best perks of business travel, IMO).
That actually sounds pretty miserable to me. I find it extremely stressful and draining to go through the air-travel-rigmarole.... twice in one day (in addition to doing actual work) sounds awful.
This is amazing! Would you fly into DC and home on the same day? Sounds like a quick way to rack up air miles, and get paid to sit on an airplane and read books/watch movies/etc. (one of the best perks of business travel, IMO).
That actually sounds pretty miserable to me. I find it extremely stressful and draining to go through the air-travel-rigmarole.... twice in one day (in addition to doing actual work) sounds awful.
This is amazing! Would you fly into DC and home on the same day? Sounds like a quick way to rack up air miles, and get paid to sit on an airplane and read books/watch movies/etc. (one of the best perks of business travel, IMO).
That actually sounds pretty miserable to me. I find it extremely stressful and draining to go through the air-travel-rigmarole.... twice in one day (in addition to doing actual work) sounds awful.
BuffaloStache is me when I took a job involving loads of travel. rantk81 is me two years later.
I just declined to fly from London to south America for a one morning meeting. Boss was surprised and disappointed. My carbon footprint says thank you to my FU money.
I just declined to fly from London to south America for a one morning meeting.
I just declined to fly from London to south America for a one morning meeting.
I thought the UK time zone was only 1 hour behind Central European Time, not 2 years behind...
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.
My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway. It's ridiculous.
Ridiculous right? It's as if we've managed to unlearn everything Covid taught us.
I just declined to fly from London to south America for a one morning meeting.
I thought the UK time zone was only 1 hour behind Central European Time, not 2 years behind...
Ridiculous right? It's as if we've managed to unlearn everything Covid taught us.
I just declined to fly from London to south America for a one morning meeting.
I thought the UK time zone was only 1 hour behind Central European Time, not 2 years behind...
Ridiculous right? It's as if we've managed to unlearn everything Covid taught us.
Here the companies are making big savings on travel and minimized offices. There is no way they can justify going back to precovid level of travel.
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.
My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway. It's ridiculous.
This is so accurate. I've been going back to the office a few days per week, but my customers are spread out all over the globe. We have no in-person meetings unless it's a rare big visit. It makes no sense; I can take a call from my apartment just as easily as I could from an office. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that our CEO doubled down and bought a new office building in 2019...
FU money has also given the willingness to look for a permanent job working from home. The pandemic forced everyone at my job to work from home starting March 2020 and most are still doing this. Despite the great success the company has had in this work model, they suddenly decided that we "do our best work together" and that all employees will be in the physical office at least three days a week. I loooooove working from home and there isn't anything about my job that requires being at the office. The forced WFH experiment has proven that it works. The only reason they want developers back is micromanagement. I applied for permanent home work. The CIO himself has to approve it. My reasoning was honest - preference. I have already told my boss that if it's not approved I'll just find a job at any one of the abundant remote development jobs that are out there now. We'll see what happens.
This is funny. We have been working *mostly* from home since March 2020 also, except for the 15% of people who need to be in person to run equipment. In the last few months, more people have been going in because they are vaccinated. Lots of people love working at home - saves on commute, fewer distractions.
The company has been saying since May that we'll be returning to the office in September. At least weekly, we are told to think about this and plan for this. Also: they realize that WFH is attractive to many, so it will be allowed, for a maximum of 2 days a week. In summary:
But...is anyone REALLY going to be checking?
But...is anyone REALLY going to be checking?
At our company, no. Pre-covid I had the ability to work from home 2 days a week. Nobody kept track, so many people just worked fully remote.
But...is anyone REALLY going to be checking?
At our company, no. Pre-covid I had the ability to work from home 2 days a week. Nobody kept track, so many people just worked fully remote.
But...is anyone REALLY going to be checking?
At our company, no. Pre-covid I had the ability to work from home 2 days a week. Nobody kept track, so many people just worked fully remote.
Similar situation here. We're supposedly going to be back fully in person in fall, just in time for the big Delta surge, no masks and under 30% vaccinated. I do need to be there for one class (I'm one of the few vaccinated, and I'll mask). Trying to decide if I'll go in to work from my office with door shut and window open one other day, or not. No one will know, and I'd get the mission critical project I need to finish up done better and quicker from home.
But...is anyone REALLY going to be checking?
At our company, no. Pre-covid I had the ability to work from home 2 days a week. Nobody kept track, so many people just worked fully remote.
Similar situation here. We're supposedly going to be back fully in person in fall, just in time for the big Delta surge, no masks and under 30% vaccinated. I do need to be there for one class (I'm one of the few vaccinated, and I'll mask). Trying to decide if I'll go in to work from my office with door shut and window open one other day, or not. No one will know, and I'd get the mission critical project I need to finish up done better and quicker from home.
Oh that is rough. If it were me I probably wouldn't go in either.
My employer has announced that all employees must be vaccinated by a specific date, and if they don't comply (or provide HR with a medical or religious reason otherwise) they will no longer be employed. I'm surprised they took that step, but frankly I'm glad to see it and I hope more companies do the same.
But...is anyone REALLY going to be checking?
At our company, no. Pre-covid I had the ability to work from home 2 days a week. Nobody kept track, so many people just worked fully remote.
Similar situation here. We're supposedly going to be back fully in person in fall, just in time for the big Delta surge, no masks and under 30% vaccinated. I do need to be there for one class (I'm one of the few vaccinated, and I'll mask). Trying to decide if I'll go in to work from my office with door shut and window open one other day, or not. No one will know, and I'd get the mission critical project I need to finish up done better and quicker from home.
Oh that is rough. If it were me I probably wouldn't go in either.
My employer has announced that all employees must be vaccinated by a specific date, and if they don't comply (or provide HR with a medical or religious reason otherwise) they will no longer be employed. I'm surprised they took that step, but frankly I'm glad to see it and I hope more companies do the same.
What kind of religious reason can you have?
Oh that is rough. If it were me I probably wouldn't go in either.
My employer has announced that all employees must be vaccinated by a specific date, and if they don't comply (or provide HR with a medical or religious reason otherwise) they will no longer be employed. I'm surprised they took that step, but frankly I'm glad to see it and I hope more companies do the same.
What kind of religious reason can you have?
Oh that is rough. If it were me I probably wouldn't go in either.
My employer has announced that all employees must be vaccinated by a specific date, and if they don't comply (or provide HR with a medical or religious reason otherwise) they will no longer be employed. I'm surprised they took that step, but frankly I'm glad to see it and I hope more companies do the same.
What kind of religious reason can you have?
IIRC, Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses are opposed in principle to all vaccinations. Christian Scientists are opposed to medical interventions in general, and I *think* Jehovah's Witnesses refuse injections (along with transfusions, IVs, tattoos, and piercings) because they constitute mutilation of the body as created by God.
If God decides we're going to be sick, we can use all available methods to get healthy again, but if we get a vaccination we're basically playing God ourselves. They oppose insurance and seatbelts for the same reason.
IIRC, Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses are opposed in principle to all vaccinations. Christian Scientists are opposed to medical interventions in general, and I *think* Jehovah's Witnesses refuse injections (along with transfusions, IVs, tattoos, and piercings) because they constitute mutilation of the body as created by God.
If God decides we're going to be sick, we can use all available methods to get healthy again, but if we get a vaccination we're basically playing God ourselves. They oppose insurance and seatbelts for the same reason.
I don't understand why, if getting vaccinated or taking other reasonable precautions is playing God, going to the hospital is fine...Surely, if it's God's will that you get sick, you should also leave your recovery completely up to him, and not be interfering with the outcome he's decided on for you.
I feel it's because these people don't really have the courage of their convictions, when push comes to shove. It's easy to refuse preventative care; you can choose to believe nothing bad is going to happen. Not so easy to refuse treatment after you're sick and maybe staring death in the face.
(I know there are those who do refuse to go to the hospital. I respect that a whole lot more, except when it comes to them refusing to take their kids...that's infuriating.)
Not to mention that if God wants you to get sick, he can f*** well do it even if you are vaccinated! It's blashemy to think that a vaccination can oppose God's will!!!If God decides we're going to be sick, we can use all available methods to get healthy again, but if we get a vaccination we're basically playing God ourselves. They oppose insurance and seatbelts for the same reason.
I don't understand why, if getting vaccinated or taking other reasonable precautions is playing God, going to the hospital is fine...Surely, if it's God's will that you get sick, you should also leave your recovery completely up to him, and not be interfering with the outcome he's decided on for you.
Can we get back to epic stories?Sure. Got one?
Can we get back to epic stories?Sure. Got one?
IIRC, Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses are opposed in principle to all vaccinations. Christian Scientists are opposed to medical interventions in general, and I *think* Jehovah's Witnesses refuse injections (along with transfusions, IVs, tattoos, and piercings) because they constitute mutilation of the body as created by God.
@AMandM , you are misinformed. I am not a JW but have a relative who is. They will accept IV's except for blood transfusions. No problem with injections (this person is fully Covid--as well as other--vaccinated), I don't know about tattoos and piercings but doubt that they are prohibited. Also the 'reasoning' you state is incorrect. The transfusion thing has to do with the "drinking of blood" that is a Hebrew prohibition (related to idol worship). I don't consider it the same thing but my relative and the JW religion does.
The fact that I have enough money now for leanFIRE is...increasingly turning me into a loose cannon at work, it seems. (Might lead to an epic story eventually. For now, I give you an anecdote.)
A few weeks ago I had a brilliant realization that I don't think would ever have come to me back in the days when I was more concerned about holding onto my job. Context: The nameplates on our office doors consist of a plastic holder with a slip of paper, your name and title printed on it. Normally Facilities staff come swap out the paper when an office is reassigned or a title changes.
But it's just a piece of paper. Eminently self-replaceable...
And - my job title is so boring. Hardly an incentive to continue OMY'ing, though my employer knows not that this is what I am doing. But really, for my employer's own good, clearly my boring title is a morale / staff retention issue that needs to be addressed (she says virtuously).
Thought led to action within the hour, and thus...my new job title was born.
So far no one's noticed the change except a few people I pointed it out to, who found it hilarious. I bet I can go literally years without anyone noticing on their own, especially since I retained the first couple of words from my official title. You'd have to keep reading to notice, and who does that? (I guess I will find out!)
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.
Damn, and now you have to change it. Translocating Section Head, Dragon, End of World and Pixiedust Wrangling or something like that.The fact that I have enough money now for leanFIRE is...increasingly turning me into a loose cannon at work, it seems. (Might lead to an epic story eventually. For now, I give you an anecdote.)
A few weeks ago I had a brilliant realization that I don't think would ever have come to me back in the days when I was more concerned about holding onto my job. Context: The nameplates on our office doors consist of a plastic holder with a slip of paper, your name and title printed on it. Normally Facilities staff come swap out the paper when an office is reassigned or a title changes.
But it's just a piece of paper. Eminently self-replaceable...
And - my job title is so boring. Hardly an incentive to continue OMY'ing, though my employer knows not that this is what I am doing. But really, for my employer's own good, clearly my boring title is a morale / staff retention issue that needs to be addressed (she says virtuously).
Thought led to action within the hour, and thus...my new job title was born.
So far no one's noticed the change except a few people I pointed it out to, who found it hilarious. I bet I can go literally years without anyone noticing on their own, especially since I retained the first couple of words from my official title. You'd have to keep reading to notice, and who does that? (I guess I will find out!)
My new title? Section Head, Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.
I still don't have any truly epic stories, but I did officially resign and pick a last day - Nov 4. I note that my self-assigned title is still up on my office door, so this will mark about a year that I've been the Section Head of Dragon and Pixiedust Wrangling.
Mostly no one's noticed, but another Section Head - from the IT dept - did wander into my office one day and choked laughing. I increased my internal estimate of her attention to detail (I don't know her well). Also her sense of humour.
Let's see how it plays out. Whatever happens, FU money has already worked. I am definitely not worried about the outcome.
This is not epic, nor is it a full story (yet). But if it becomes those things it will involve FU money, so I am posting it anyway.
My manager and the higher-ups want to introduce <NewFormalProcess> for something we regularly need to do (details don't matter). The process is actually something I agree with. Most of the actual work within the process will have to be done by me and a few others on the same level as me (and we are actually already doing it, except there is no formal process). Open question is how fast we should be able to do this process. Since I am currently already doing this work, I like to believe that I have a very reasonable idea about how long it takes. I am usually a reasonable person, unless someone pisses me off.
I suggested one week.
His reaction: No, that is much too slow, we need to be faster. Like one or two days.
Me: There is no way we can do that reliably. Maybe in some trivial cases, but most of the time, the process requires coordination and discussion between a few people. And these people have a lot on their plates already. It can easily take a few days to hash this sort of thing out between all relevant persons.
Manager: You can just call a meeting at the same day with all relevant persons and discuss it then.
Me: No, we can't. Many people have very full schedules (you know, just like you). And also other work to do.
Manager: You can always call a same-day meeting. Just do it at 6pm.
Me: [speechless for a moment]. Most people leave long before 6pm. And I certainly don't want to work so late. If it's very rarely, ok. But even then, it needs to be planned, so not same-day. Many people (like me...) have private obligations.
Manager: We can force you to. We can order you to do overtime [note: saying this ("force", "order") is totally out-of-character for the guy].
Me: [now I am pissed] First, no, you can't. [1]
Me: And second, do you remember how we talked about problems with employee retention recently? I can tell you now that this won't help.
Me: And besides, it is definitely not usual that <Process> would even need to be completed within one week. Usually, we know about it at least roughly multiple weeks in advance. In all cases that I know where somethign sprang on us "suddenly", it was always because somebody (I am looking at you, higher-ups...) actually already knew about it but failed to pass it on in a timely manner.
The discussion continued a little but it became clear that we would not agree. We postponed it and will discuss it with all involved persons to also get their opinion.
[1]
This answer left him speechless for a moment. It has multiple levels (which I did not discuss with him):
First, legally, he can't force me to do overtime since my contract does not mention it and that means that he cannot demand it.
More importantly, he can't force me, because that is one thing that will surely make me quit on his ass (or maybe just ignore the demand and dare him to fire me -- a labor court would probably not look kindly on an employer who tries to force a father to work overtime, despite no contractual obligation. And while said father would actually have to pick his kid up from daycare).
This is actually the very first time that something at work made my mind jump to the "FU Money" concept, so it maybe sort of fits in here.
Let's see how it plays out. Whatever happens, FU money has already worked. I am definitely not worried about the outcome.
Sometimes I wonder if these guys have ever been told no in a situation like this. Not just pushback (which is probably rare in and of itself) but a firm no. I know you say it's out of character with the manager but people in all of these situations that come up on this thread in general all seem to have similar reactions of total disbelief.
Saw this post on Reddit.
Title: My boss's secretary quit this morning after delivering breakfast.
Post:
(https://preview.redd.it/uxia2zdihrd71.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=899c8931fb6d9f8a08daaa90fc973a22ef8fc148)
Man, if that isn't an epic FU story*, I don't know what is. A picture tells 1000 words here. :D
*Sure, we don't know for sure she had FU money, but whatever.
Credit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellthatsucks/comments/osndlx/my_bosss_secretary_quit_this_morning_after/
Yeah, thought the same. That maybe count as teatime sweets or something, but not as a meal. Especially not the first of the day. I don't even want to imagine how much sugar is in there and what it does to your liver and diabetes if that is your first meal of the day.Saw this post on Reddit.
Title: My boss's secretary quit this morning after delivering breakfast.
Looks like she made them a big favor if that is supposed to be breakfast.
Yeah, thought the same. That maybe count as teatime sweets or something, but not as a meal. Especially not the first of the day. I don't even want to imagine how much sugar is in there and what it does to your liver and diabetes if that is your first meal of the day.Saw this post on Reddit.
Title: My boss's secretary quit this morning after delivering breakfast.
Looks like she made them a big favor if that is supposed to be breakfast.
Yeah, thought the same. That maybe count as teatime sweets or something, but not as a meal. Especially not the first of the day. I don't even want to imagine how much sugar is in there and what it does to your liver and diabetes if that is your first meal of the day.Saw this post on Reddit.
Title: My boss's secretary quit this morning after delivering breakfast.
Looks like she made them a big favor if that is supposed to be breakfast.
I say this in gentle humor: I think you're missing the point. Even if she ate them it's a one-time, brilliantly delivered, epic message. She could have taken each bite and spit it out - we don't know and she's probably not telling.
I didn’t miss the point, I just found it interesting that someone called that breakfast.
I didn’t miss the point, I just found it interesting that someone called that breakfast.
Guessing you haven't been to the US lately. If you saw what average Americans look like in 2021, it wouldn't surprise you, at all, that many here consider sugary donuts a completely normal 'breakfast.'
Maybe I don't understand "FU money"... always assumed it was something like "I'm here because I get satisfaction out of [insert task]; I don't need the paycheck and won't blindly comply with superiors' orders if they're not the right thing to do". How does burning bridges by doing something like eating someone's donuts become an "epic" move? Even if that employee was mistreated for years, it's impossible for them to not appear petty by doing something like this. Am I in the minority here?
Maybe I don't understand "FU money"... always assumed it was something like "I'm here because I get satisfaction out of [insert task]; I don't need the paycheck and won't blindly comply with superiors' orders if they're not the right thing to do". How does burning bridges by doing something like eating someone's donuts become an "epic" move? Even if that employee was mistreated for years, it's impossible for them to not appear petty by doing something like this. Am I in the minority here?
Maybe I don't understand "FU money"... always assumed it was something like "I'm here because I get satisfaction out of [insert task]; I don't need the paycheck and won't blindly comply with superiors' orders if they're not the right thing to do". How does burning bridges by doing something like eating someone's donuts become an "epic" move? Even if that employee was mistreated for years, it's impossible for them to not appear petty by doing something like this. Am I in the minority here?
I'm with @johndoe. This is the act of a petty bridge burner, not someone refusing an immoral order because they don't need the money.
I didn’t miss the point, I just found it interesting that someone called that breakfast.
Guessing you haven't been to the US lately. If you saw what average Americans look like in 2021, it wouldn't surprise you, at all, that many here consider sugary donuts a completely normal 'breakfast.'
Fair responses, I can see how the notion of "I've always been mistreated here, now I can settle the score with boss X" could be appealing. But imagine you're "boss X" here. Wouldn't you interpret the donut message as "wow...that employee was crazy. Clearly they weren't a good team member and we're better off without them"? I can't imagine this would cause any sort of internal reflection.
From my vantage point, if you're going to burn a bridge so thoroughly, why not do it over a topic that really matters? If boss X made your life hell and hurt the org, why not go out by presenting facts to boss X's boss about their ineptitude/lack of ethics, and explain that caused you to leave? If you really want something to change, eating someone's donut isn't going to cut it.
Fair responses, I can see how the notion of "I've always been mistreated here, now I can settle the score with boss X" could be appealing. But imagine you're "boss X" here. Wouldn't you interpret the donut message as "wow...that employee was crazy. Clearly they weren't a good team member and we're better off without them"? I can't imagine this would cause any sort of internal reflection.
From my vantage point, if you're going to burn a bridge so thoroughly, why not do it over a topic that really matters? If boss X made your life hell and hurt the org, why not go out by presenting facts to boss X's boss about their ineptitude/lack of ethics, and explain that caused you to leave? If you really want something to change, eating someone's donut isn't going to cut it.
I mean, the key phrase itself is extremely vulgar, so I don't think we should expect that its use be always professional and polite.Yes, I just can't imagine the thread titled "Epic you can sexual intercourse someone else money stories".
Fair responses, I can see how the notion of "I've always been mistreated here, now I can settle the score with boss X" could be appealing. But imagine you're "boss X" here. Wouldn't you interpret the donut message as "wow...that employee was crazy. Clearly they weren't a good team member and we're better off without them"? I can't imagine this would cause any sort of internal reflection.
From my vantage point, if you're going to burn a bridge so thoroughly, why not do it over a topic that really matters? If boss X made your life hell and hurt the org, why not go out by presenting facts to boss X's boss about their ineptitude/lack of ethics, and explain that caused you to leave? If you really want something to change, eating someone's donut isn't going to cut it.
I'd like to think I'm a good manager - I've never had this type of thing happen to me. If I did, I would throw out the donuts and move on with my day. It wouldn't bother me in the least. I've been in leadership for 26 years and I've seen people do the craziest things. We'd like to think that these FU moments really make someone reflect on their behavior. I suspect you are right, most people would just think it was a crazy employee.
I still enjoy all the stories and did find it funny that someone did that to the donuts.
Sometimes, it's just about sending the message and saying what you have to say. I'm sure it made her feel better and released some of her pent-up frustrations.
FIf boss X made your life hell and hurt the org, why not go out by presenting facts to boss X's boss about their ineptitude/lack of ethics, and explain that caused you to leave? If you really want something to change, eating someone's donut isn't going to cut it.
In our organization, we have a regular program of 1:1 meetings with our direct reports, and Skip 1:1 meetings with their reports. Then there are roundtables, surveys, and other venues to identify both high performers and problem leaders. These leaders get coaching, and if that doesn't work, they get to find the opportunity to apply their skills elsewhere. This has been a pretty big change from earlier years, and the change in the organization has been profound. In the past, we had people in leadership positions that everyone knew shouldn't be there, but nobody did anything about it. Now, those people are few and far between.
It's true that in some organizations there is a pointy-haired boss wall of silence... but it doesn't have to be that way.
More on-topic.
Just this past week my wife told her boss she was not going to travel to a remote site when she could more easily perform the task in an online setting (and travel would have had a negative impact on her more important task).
Maybe I don't understand "FU money"... always assumed it was something like "I'm here because I get satisfaction out of [insert task]; I don't need the paycheck and won't blindly comply with superiors' orders if they're not the right thing to do". How does burning bridges by doing something like eating someone's donuts become an "epic" move? Even if that employee was mistreated for years, it's impossible for them to not appear petty by doing something like this. Am I in the minority here?
FU money means you have enough resources that you can do just fine for long enough to get another source of income. Obviously, if one is also FI, "long enough" = "forever". It means you can afford to say "No." to things that you find unacceptable.
Was taking that bite out of the donuts petty. Yes, it was. But there's a truly important difference between a petty action by someone with power and someone who's been on the bottom and finally, FINALLY gets a chance to say FU in a way that gives them a chance to even the score. Very few people would respond like that unless their management had been mean, cruel, petty, arbitrary, etc., for what seemed like an interminable period of time to the victim.
Just quitting doesn't convey the message of "I hate your fucking guts you pathetic excuse for a human being". Delivering their box of donuts with a bite taken out of each one -- probably an unpaid task they had to do on their way to work -- is a way to do that.
The odds are 100 to 1 that the manager deserved to receive that message.
I went to a traditional UK boarding school, and I was in the most traditional house in that school. Fagging had officially been abolished years before (fagging = junior boys being servants to senior boys) but in my house it still existed, but technically as punishment (i.e. caught doing something wrong = make & bring tea to the senior boys, or clean their shoes, make their beds etc) However, the 'punishments' were scrupulously handed out on an unofficial roster. Because if any fag felt they were being picked on unfairly, the tea would have urine in it. So, yeah, I am totally on board with the doughnut bites.
More on-topic.
Just this past week my wife told her boss she was not going to travel to a remote site when she could more easily perform the task in an online setting (and travel would have had a negative impact on her more important task).
I anticipate a big upswing of fu situations in general about remote situations even amongst peyote without truly having fu money. It may be subtle, but people aren't going to take being forced back into an office full time or into unnecessary travel or the like without reason like they previously did.
I would suggest a course reading list starting with the collected works of Thompson, Hunter S. and the cinematic oeuvre of Jackson, Samuel L., with supplemental materials by Malkiel, Burton L. and Bogle, John C.
Index funds, motherfucker.
I would suggest a course reading list starting with the collected works of Thompson, Hunter S. and the cinematic oeuvre of Jackson, Samuel L., with supplemental materials by Malkiel, Burton L. and Bogle, John C.
Index funds, motherfucker.
Love it!
More on-topic.
Just this past week my wife told her boss she was not going to travel to a remote site when she could more easily perform the task in an online setting (and travel would have had a negative impact on her more important task).
I anticipate a big upswing of fu situations in general about remote situations even amongst peyote without truly having fu money. It may be subtle, but people aren't going to take being forced back into an office full time or into unnecessary travel or the like without reason like they previously did.
Do not change your typo.
I just figured it was a frequency based suggestion and you've been out wandering the desert.More on-topic.
Just this past week my wife told her boss she was not going to travel to a remote site when she could more easily perform the task in an online setting (and travel would have had a negative impact on her more important task).
I anticipate a big upswing of fu situations in general about remote situations even amongst peyote without truly having fu money. It may be subtle, but people aren't going to take being forced back into an office full time or into unnecessary travel or the like without reason like they previously did.
Do not change your typo.
How on earth did autocorrect get that out of people?!?
I went to a traditional UK boarding school, and I was in the most traditional house in that school. Fagging had officially been abolished years before (fagging = junior boys being servants to senior boys) but in my house it still existed, but technically as punishment (i.e. caught doing something wrong = make & bring tea to the senior boys, or clean their shoes, make their beds etc) However, the 'punishments' were scrupulously handed out on an unofficial roster. Because if any fag felt they were being picked on unfairly, the tea would have urine in it. So, yeah, I am totally on board with the doughnut bites.
This is a good example of the USA and UK being separated by a common language. :)
I just figured all this wfh has been happening amidst an uptick in the use of peyote… kinda made sense then.
I'm with @johndoe. This is the act of a petty bridge burner, not someone refusing an immoral order because they don't need the money.
Yeah, we have a separate thread for polite stories:I'm with @johndoe. This is the act of a petty bridge burner, not someone refusing an immoral order because they don't need the money.
It's a thread about "fuck you money" stories, not "I politely declined to do something because I am fiscally prepared" stories. :P
Maybe I don't understand "FU money"... always assumed it was something like "I'm here because I get satisfaction out of [insert task]; I don't need the paycheck and won't blindly comply with superiors' orders if they're not the right thing to do". How does burning bridges by doing something like eating someone's donuts become an "epic" move? Even if that employee was mistreated for years, it's impossible for them to not appear petty by doing something like this. Am I in the minority here?
In regards to the burning bridges part in general, I view stories on here like watching a movie. I would likely never do it myself, but I envision myself having the guts/wit to do something similar at a particularly rough job I had. I don't think I would ever have it in me to burn a bridge in some of these more extreme ways, but I have been in some tough situations and can see the appeal.
In terms of this particular one, I guess it depends on the situation. If she was specifically tasked with bringing breakfast for her boss I can understand it. In all my work situations, something like that would have been more communal, so I definitely wouldn't have done it if it could have felt directed at more than just my boss specifically. All in all, my response was dang, she got the message across that she was pissed.
I personally prefer ones where the response is directly related to the problem - a boss habitually overloads an employee, the employee finally says enough is enough and refuses, they are told there is no option, and then the employee quits, leaving the aggressive boss to hold the bag for everything. I guess it does seem a little less petty to me when they are directly tied to the problem and are a logical consequence of the action.
At an old job in Portland I had a coworker I hated so much (went out of his way to question everything I said - work related or personal), that I dreamed of leaving a VooDoo Donut chocolate cock n balls donut on his desk. I had a severance package for my position being eliminated, so I couldn't risk it for the donut but the thought got me through many days there... Glad to see someone else has thought of being petty with donuts!
I don't think this is really Epic but I wouldn't have done it without FU money...
I've been working for this employer for over a decade. Since then the building has been remodelled and the climate control performance has dropped to unacceptable levels. However, my boss (current and former) have told me that shorts are not acceptable. Asked 10 years ago via the workers comp (which I think is the correct equivalent, co-workers who talk/negotiate with CEO level because of local law requirements). Back then the answer was that there was no dresscode but to adhere to the long pants to show solidarity to the workers who did have a dress code.
Years later, the temps at the office keep going up to a standard 25C during 20C outdoor temps, and higher as the outdoors temp rises. Climate control is abysmal and even with all windows open there's basically no fresh air unless there's a huricane blowing in the right direction.
I said to myself, screw it, I'm going in shorts because it's Covid time and I have 0 interaction with customers. Also, there are like 5 coworkers in a 100+ desk building.
2 weeks later, my boss pulls me aside and says that he has no qualms with my prefrences but that he had been mandated by the CEO that no shorts were allowed. Meanwhile our co-workers of the female persuasion could wear dresses/skirts and workers (like masons, plumbers) who visit customers could go in company logo provided shorts if temps outside are above 25C.
Well, thats kind of unfair, right? So I contacted my workers comp representative and laid out my case: If I work in the office and wear a decent pair of shorts I am presentable to the customers but not allowed to by the CEO's. The workers have a requirement that 25C outdoors temp is a minimum for shorts, why not for office workers too?
If my female coworker wears the same shorts it's not a problem. The female coworkers can even wear a dress, skirt or something like it. Why can't I? Do I need to wear a skirt to the office then? Because I will (and truly, I would)!
Talks between the workers comp and CEO's have concluded, result: There is no mandate on dresscode for office personel, nor will there be other than being presentable. If I want to wear shorts I'm allowed to do so, within reason and as long as it is respectable. The respectable part may be up for discussion, same as mini-skirts with flip-flops are.
So, this is a Win, right?
I don't think this is really Epic but I wouldn't have done it without FU money...
I've been working for this employer for over a decade. Since then the building has been remodelled and the climate control performance has dropped to unacceptable levels. However, my boss (current and former) have told me that shorts are not acceptable. Asked 10 years ago via the workers comp (which I think is the correct equivalent, co-workers who talk/negotiate with CEO level because of local law requirements). Back then the answer was that there was no dresscode but to adhere to the long pants to show solidarity to the workers who did have a dress code.
Years later, the temps at the office keep going up to a standard 25C during 20C outdoor temps, and higher as the outdoors temp rises. Climate control is abysmal and even with all windows open there's basically no fresh air unless there's a huricane blowing in the right direction.
I said to myself, screw it, I'm going in shorts because it's Covid time and I have 0 interaction with customers. Also, there are like 5 coworkers in a 100+ desk building.
2 weeks later, my boss pulls me aside and says that he has no qualms with my prefrences but that he had been mandated by the CEO that no shorts were allowed. Meanwhile our co-workers of the female persuasion could wear dresses/skirts and workers (like masons, plumbers) who visit customers could go in company logo provided shorts if temps outside are above 25C.
Well, thats kind of unfair, right? So I contacted my workers comp representative and laid out my case: If I work in the office and wear a decent pair of shorts I am presentable to the customers but not allowed to by the CEO's. The workers have a requirement that 25C outdoors temp is a minimum for shorts, why not for office workers too?
If my female coworker wears the same shorts it's not a problem. The female coworkers can even wear a dress, skirt or something like it. Why can't I? Do I need to wear a skirt to the office then? Because I will (and truly, I would)!
Talks between the workers comp and CEO's have concluded, result: There is no mandate on dresscode for office personel, nor will there be other than being presentable. If I want to wear shorts I'm allowed to do so, within reason and as long as it is respectable. The respectable part may be up for discussion, same as mini-skirts with flip-flops are.
So, this is a Win, right?
I think it's a win! I have similar issues right now with climate control. It gets unbearably hot in the office/labs. Because it's a scientific lab environment I do wear long pants when I'm running experiments, but if I don't expect to be in the lab (paperwork/grant writing day) I wear shorts or skirts. There are no written rules about it, but it was a big mental hurdle for me to even broach the subject. Freedom and cooler outfits feel fantastic.
@fuzzy math ... that is an epic thought at least. I miss the Cock n Balls donut, at least for its novelty. I'm in the PDX area as well and hoping to get out of the rat race next summer. Enjoy your FIRE!
The summer that I was pregnant, my office instituted an "energy saving policy" in which the thermostats in each individual office were locked into a pre-set temperature of 78 degrees. We ended up having a bunch of localized heat waves in our office. About every hour and a half someone would go wave a cigarette lighter around underneath the thermostat until it kicked the air on for awhile.When I lived in Houston, I tried keeping the thermostat set at 78. I really did. But I just couldn't take it, and neither could my family.
Wow! These are things I wish I'd known sooner....someone would go wave a cigarette lighter around underneath the thermostat until it kicked the air on for awhile.
If you have the problem of a too-low (and non-adjustable) temperature, there's a cool little fix: drape a damp paper towel over the thermostat. Evaporative cooling will make the thermostat think that the room is colder than it actually is.
The summer that I was pregnant, my office instituted an "energy saving policy" in which the thermostats in each individual office were locked into a pre-set temperature of 78 degrees. We ended up having a bunch of localized heat waves in our office. About every hour and a half someone would go wave a cigarette lighter around underneath the thermostat until it kicked the air on for awhile.When I lived in Houston, I tried keeping the thermostat set at 78. I really did. But I just couldn't take it, and neither could my family.
Of course, it didn't help that at the office, their (corporate) idea of an acceptable temperatures was 62 degrees. Seriously. Our admin kept a space heater under her desk during the summer.
If you have the problem of a too-low (and non-adjustable) temperature, there's a cool little fix: drape a damp paper towel over the thermostat. Evaporative cooling will make the thermostat think that the room is colder than it actually is.
In 2016 my dad was diagnosed with cancer. I lived a 5 hr drive away. The next day i went to the office and said i wouldn't be back (i should have given 3 months notice as that's what my contract specified, which is not unusual in the uk), listed my house with a sales agent and drove home to be with my parents. 3 months later my dad died.Sorry about your dad. Glad you understood how important that time was. That's a rare gift.
Not an epic FU story as my work were wonderful and completely understanding, but the time i got to spend with him because i didn't have to work was utterly priceless. I also stayed living with my mum for another couple of months to help with probate and support her emotionally as we grieved. This is what FU money gives you, freedom when you need it.
In 2016 my dad was diagnosed with cancer. I lived a 5 hr drive away. The next day i went to the office and said i wouldn't be back (i should have given 3 months notice as that's what my contract specified, which is not unusual in the uk), listed my house with a sales agent and drove home to be with my parents. 3 months later my dad died.
Not an epic FU story as my work were wonderful and completely understanding, but the time i got to spend with him because i didn't have to work was utterly priceless. I also stayed living with my mum for another couple of months to help with probate and support her emotionally as we grieved. This is what FU money gives you, freedom when you need it.
In 2016 my dad was diagnosed with cancer. I lived a 5 hr drive away. The next day i went to the office and said i wouldn't be back (i should have given 3 months notice as that's what my contract specified, which is not unusual in the uk), listed my house with a sales agent and drove home to be with my parents. 3 months later my dad died.Sorry about your dad. I'm glad you had the strength (and FU money) to make that decision.
Not an epic FU story as my work were wonderful and completely understanding, but the time i got to spend with him because i didn't have to work was utterly priceless. I also stayed living with my mum for another couple of months to help with probate and support her emotionally as we grieved. This is what FU money gives you, freedom when you need it.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
I'm sorry about your Dad.In 2016 my dad was diagnosed with cancer. I lived a 5 hr drive away. The next day i went to the office and said i wouldn't be back (i should have given 3 months notice as that's what my contract specified, which is not unusual in the uk), listed my house with a sales agent and drove home to be with my parents. 3 months later my dad died.Sorry about your dad. I'm glad you had the strength (and FU money) to make that decision.
Not an epic FU story as my work were wonderful and completely understanding, but the time i got to spend with him because i didn't have to work was utterly priceless. I also stayed living with my mum for another couple of months to help with probate and support her emotionally as we grieved. This is what FU money gives you, freedom when you need it.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
As it happens, I was spared that choice by the coincidence of COVID (universal WFH meant I could stay with my dad without giving up my job). I'm so glad I was able to be there for him and with him. But I'm not sure if I would have had the strength or clarity to do it if I'd had to leave my job first.
Before I got Covid I would have been upset and worried about leaving the store in a lurch and my boss possibly disliking me. Now I just don't care. I'm going to work part-time at this job and decide if I financially need to get another job or if I can just stick with this one.I'm sorry that your boss showed you what his priorities were. Good for you for drawing a line and going through with a life
My boss is the one in charge of the people covering my leave. Not one single inquiry about my health or if my family was ok. Luckily I had a mild case and did not spread it to anyone. Also my anxiety and depression almost completely disappeared while I was on sick leave.
Update to my story on the previous page about getting breakthrough Covid and realizing my job is toxic. I gave my boss a set schedule that I would work, but he is not respecting it. He basically told me that I could work the hours he needs me or none at all. I'm not sure why he thought this would work since the entire state where I am is really short on staff and we both know it's better to have me working part time than none at all.
So I called my old manager from another district and I'm going to transfer there in 2 weeks. He is glad to have me in any capacity since he knows I'll do a good job. I'm starting out 2 days a week on days of my choice and we'll see how my mental health is. Nice old manager is going to handle it all with current jerk manager so I don't have to deal with him. Although part of me wants to hear his reaction :).
Update to my story on the previous page about getting breakthrough Covid and realizing my job is toxic. I gave my boss a set schedule that I would work, but he is not respecting it. He basically told me that I could work the hours he needs me or none at all. I'm not sure why he thought this would work since the entire state where I am is really short on staff and we both know it's better to have me working part time than none at all.Please come back and tell us the reaction if you learn of it.
So I called my old manager from another district and I'm going to transfer there in 2 weeks. He is glad to have me in any capacity since he knows I'll do a good job. I'm starting out 2 days a week on days of my choice and we'll see how my mental health is. Nice old manager is going to handle it all with current jerk manager so I don't have to deal with him. Although part of me wants to hear his reaction :).
When I was 21, I had a job at a dry cleaners. I worked afternoons, and my SIL would watch my kids for a few hours until DH got home. The job had one weekday off, closed on Sundays, and every other Saturday off. Right after I started I asked if I could have Tuesday off every week, but was told no -- had to rotate the weekday. Not like I was asking for Monday, but fine. First Saturday off comes around, and can't have it. We were short staffed. This continues for a few months. Then we finally have 6 people and are fully staffed. So the schedule goes up, and I'm off the next Saturday. I book a camping trip with my family. On Thursday, the boss changes the schedule and puts me on Saturday. I say, I can't work. I made plans. She says someone quit so we are short again, so you have to work. I was so mad. When I went to lunch, I decided I was done and since they didn't think notice was needed, I wouldn't give them any. I just didn't go back. When I went in to pick up my final paycheck two weeks later, she said, "You should have stayed. You could have the day shift now." (Two more people quit after me.) WTF! I didn't have childcare for a day shift. How clueless can you be?Good for you
It's not an epic FU money story. I went to work, because DH needed 3 crowns and our insurance only paid 50%. I worked long enough to pay for that, and get us into a new car.
That experience was a huge part of my decision to go back to college.
Thanks everybody. This blog/forum has changed my savings rate from 6% to 65% in the last three years. That job would have consumed me you all didn't preach this alternative.
Not directly at least. Of course taxes existed (albeit not in the form we think of today) and were one expense you could not not do.
But it generally was about "richer getting rich on our debts, and we get into slavery as result". That's why debt forgiveness was invented - the literal blank slate (as those old guys wrote on clay tablets) to free people out of debt slavery before you run out of people who aren't slaves. It was a constant topic for thousands of years, as you can see in the "jubilee year" of the bible.
It's quite humbling to know that one of the biggest and oldest problems humanity has is one born out of our society (or our personal souls - greed) itself. Basically only starving is more dangerous...
There are a small number of books that really changed how I think about humans, culture, and how we think. Debt and Thinking: Fast and Slow come to mind.
Yes and yes.Not directly at least. Of course taxes existed (albeit not in the form we think of today) and were one expense you could not not do.
But it generally was about "richer getting rich on our debts, and we get into slavery as result". That's why debt forgiveness was invented - the literal blank slate (as those old guys wrote on clay tablets) to free people out of debt slavery before you run out of people who aren't slaves. It was a constant topic for thousands of years, as you can see in the "jubilee year" of the bible.
It's quite humbling to know that one of the biggest and oldest problems humanity has is one born out of our society (or our personal souls - greed) itself. Basically only starving is more dangerous...
A reference to Debt: The First 5,000 Years? That book has percolated in my brain at a pretty deep level.
Yes and yes.Not directly at least. Of course taxes existed (albeit not in the form we think of today) and were one expense you could not not do.
But it generally was about "richer getting rich on our debts, and we get into slavery as result". That's why debt forgiveness was invented - the literal blank slate (as those old guys wrote on clay tablets) to free people out of debt slavery before you run out of people who aren't slaves. It was a constant topic for thousands of years, as you can see in the "jubilee year" of the bible.
It's quite humbling to know that one of the biggest and oldest problems humanity has is one born out of our society (or our personal souls - greed) itself. Basically only starving is more dangerous...
A reference to Debt: The First 5,000 Years? That book has percolated in my brain at a pretty deep level.
I love ethnology, so having all that background and history in one place was immensely interesting. I also recommend it for every fantasy writer. There is a lot of "weird" things and how they came to be the way they are.
btw. if you haven't read the book in my signature. For me it was "finally everything that I knew but could not put in words made into a theoretical framework".
@blurkraken22 - You won't until you get to 100 posts. It's a recent hurdle to cut down on spammers and other nefarious types.Yes and yes.Not directly at least. Of course taxes existed (albeit not in the form we think of today) and were one expense you could not not do.
But it generally was about "richer getting rich on our debts, and we get into slavery as result". That's why debt forgiveness was invented - the literal blank slate (as those old guys wrote on clay tablets) to free people out of debt slavery before you run out of people who aren't slaves. It was a constant topic for thousands of years, as you can see in the "jubilee year" of the bible.
It's quite humbling to know that one of the biggest and oldest problems humanity has is one born out of our society (or our personal souls - greed) itself. Basically only starving is more dangerous...
A reference to Debt: The First 5,000 Years? That book has percolated in my brain at a pretty deep level.
I love ethnology, so having all that background and history in one place was immensely interesting. I also recommend it for every fantasy writer. There is a lot of "weird" things and how they came to be the way they are.
btw. if you haven't read the book in my signature. For me it was "finally everything that I knew but could not put in words made into a theoretical framework".
Maybe I'm doing something wrong... but I don't see a signature. :o
So the solution is to quickly spam out another 50 posts to prove I'm not a spammer, right? ;DMaybe I'm doing something wrong... but I don't see a signature. :o@blurkraken22 - You won't until you get to 100 posts. It's a recent hurdle to cut down on spammers and other nefarious types.
So the solution is to quickly spam out another 50 posts to prove I'm not a spammer, right? ;DMaybe I'm doing something wrong... but I don't see a signature. :o@blurkraken22 - You won't until you get to 100 posts. It's a recent hurdle to cut down on spammers and other nefarious types.
@LennStar What's the book in your sig?
I don't make the rules, but as a long time forumite, I sure as hell appreciate the effect of them. The mods do a bang-up job.So the solution is to quickly spam out another 50 posts to prove I'm not a spammer, right? ;DMaybe I'm doing something wrong... but I don't see a signature. :o@blurkraken22 - You won't until you get to 100 posts. It's a recent hurdle to cut down on spammers and other nefarious types.
@LennStar What's the book in your sig?
I have been unhappy at my job for years but not miserable and it had always provided a decent work life balance so I stuck around. Once we started administering the Pfizer vaccines at the same time they cut our support staff's hours, things became miserable. I was having to work 2 to 4 hours extra (unpaid) every day to keep up. Several other pharmacists in my area quit, so my partner and I were having to cover eachother's vacation time or we would not be allowed to go. So here I am working 14ish hours a day and picking up extra shifts that I have no desire to work. I had to get on medication for anxiety and depression.WAIT, are you my twin?? All of this. I had the same conversation with my husband earlier this year. I haven't had the courage to talk to my boss yet.. I'm considering stepping down after the first of the year and go part time. I am proud of you having the guts to take control of your life.
Update to my story on the previous page about getting breakthrough Covid and realizing my job is toxic. I gave my boss a set schedule that I would work, but he is not respecting it. He basically told me that I could work the hours he needs me or none at all. I'm not sure why he thought this would work since the entire state where I am is really short on staff and we both know it's better to have me working part time than none at all.Oh my gosh!!!! Your boss sounds like my boss. Exactly why I'm afraid to say anything. I'm not quite ready to quit, I kinda need the health insurance. Please keep us updated.
So I called my old manager from another district and I'm going to transfer there in 2 weeks. He is glad to have me in any capacity since he knows I'll do a good job. I'm starting out 2 days a week on days of my choice and we'll see how my mental health is. Nice old manager is going to handle it all with current jerk manager so I don't have to deal with him. Although part of me wants to hear his reaction :).
My joke was likely in poor taste. I've dealt with spammers on another forum previously and it's a huge time suck. No disrespect intended to the mods. My apologies.I don't make the rules, but as a long time forumite, I sure as hell appreciate the effect of them. The mods do a bang-up job.So the solution is to quickly spam out another 50 posts to prove I'm not a spammer, right? ;DMaybe I'm doing something wrong... but I don't see a signature. :o@blurkraken22 - You won't until you get to 100 posts. It's a recent hurdle to cut down on spammers and other nefarious types.
@LennStar What's the book in your sig?
Update to my story on the previous page about getting breakthrough Covid and realizing my job is toxic. I gave my boss a set schedule that I would work, but he is not respecting it. He basically told me that I could work the hours he needs me or none at all. I'm not sure why he thought this would work since the entire state where I am is really short on staff and we both know it's better to have me working part time than none at all.Awesome.
So I called my old manager from another district and I'm going to transfer there in 2 weeks. He is glad to have me in any capacity since he knows I'll do a good job. I'm starting out 2 days a week on days of my choice and we'll see how my mental health is. Nice old manager is going to handle it all with current jerk manager so I don't have to deal with him. Although part of me wants to hear his reaction :).
Nah, your comment was amusing. I chuckled. Spammers suck and all, but the notion of spamming to get around anti-spam hurdles is funny as long as you don't actually go on a spamming spree.My joke was likely in poor taste. I've dealt with spammers on another forum previously and it's a huge time suck. No disrespect intended to the mods. My apologies.I don't make the rules, but as a long time forumite, I sure as hell appreciate the effect of them. The mods do a bang-up job.So the solution is to quickly spam out another 50 posts to prove I'm not a spammer, right? ;DMaybe I'm doing something wrong... but I don't see a signature. :o@blurkraken22 - You won't until you get to 100 posts. It's a recent hurdle to cut down on spammers and other nefarious types.
@LennStar What's the book in your sig?
So the solution is to quickly spam out another 50 posts to prove I'm not a spammer, right? ;DMaybe I'm doing something wrong... but I don't see a signature. :o@blurkraken22 - You won't until you get to 100 posts. It's a recent hurdle to cut down on spammers and other nefarious types.
Congratulations @uniwelder ! Sometimes the timeline changes - and the powers that be must know now that you really are serious.
I regret not standing firm last July in a similar situation, although without as significant a pay cut. Funny how when management gets what they claim to want in changing the terms of your work how quickly a timeline can adjust . . .
Good for you being in a good position to walk away, @uniwelder !
When I went from salaried to hourly, my payrate was calculated to be (gross pay)/(40*52) but I thought it should be (gross pay + retirement + insurance)/(40*48) to account for actual compensation divided by number of actual hours worked in a year. Overall discrepancy meant I would be paid 2/3 of my regular salaried rate, while adding significantly more value to the position since I would only be working the hours actually needed to do the job with no dead time.
When I went from salaried to hourly, my payrate was calculated to be (gross pay)/(40*52) but I thought it should be (gross pay + retirement + insurance)/(40*48) to account for actual compensation divided by number of actual hours worked in a year. Overall discrepancy meant I would be paid 2/3 of my regular salaried rate, while adding significantly more value to the position since I would only be working the hours actually needed to do the job with no dead time.
Were you still a direct employee or working on contract? If you were direct, and the company was still paying retirement + insurance (+vacation?), then the formula that was used seems right. Otherwise you’d be double-dipping on the benefits, so to speak.
Update to my story on the previous page about getting breakthrough Covid and realizing my job is toxic. I gave my boss a set schedule that I would work, but he is not respecting it. He basically told me that I could work the hours he needs me or none at all. I'm not sure why he thought this would work since the entire state where I am is really short on staff and we both know it's better to have me working part time than none at all.
So I called my old manager from another district and I'm going to transfer there in 2 weeks. He is glad to have me in any capacity since he knows I'll do a good job. I'm starting out 2 days a week on days of my choice and we'll see how my mental health is. Nice old manager is going to handle it all with current jerk manager so I don't have to deal with him. Although part of me wants to hear his reaction :).
Hope she stayed at other job or at least got a big raise or something if she went back.Update to my story on the previous page about getting breakthrough Covid and realizing my job is toxic. I gave my boss a set schedule that I would work, but he is not respecting it. He basically told me that I could work the hours he needs me or none at all. I'm not sure why he thought this would work since the entire state where I am is really short on staff and we both know it's better to have me working part time than none at all.
So I called my old manager from another district and I'm going to transfer there in 2 weeks. He is glad to have me in any capacity since he knows I'll do a good job. I'm starting out 2 days a week on days of my choice and we'll see how my mental health is. Nice old manager is going to handle it all with current jerk manager so I don't have to deal with him. Although part of me wants to hear his reaction :).
DW did the same, her boss wanted her to work weekends but that didn’t work well for us, so she found another job and all of a sudden they were totally fine with her just working weekdays if she came back
I once attended an accounting class by a guy who used to run a bank. He started out in tech support, more or less, during the early computer days when the "computer department" generated reports because no one else had computers.
When he became department head, there were 150 reports generated for the company. His first act was to stop sending them. His plan was to permanently cancel any report that no one requested during the next 90 days. Half of the reports died.
He didn't have to leave his job to say FU to unnecessary work!
I once attended an accounting class by a guy who used to run a bank. He started out in tech support, more or less, during the early computer days when the "computer department" generated reports because no one else had computers.
When he became department head, there were 150 reports generated for the company. His first act was to stop sending them. His plan was to permanently cancel any report that no one requested during the next 90 days. Half of the reports died.
He didn't have to leave his job to say FU to unnecessary work!
I once attended an accounting class by a guy who used to run a bank. He started out in tech support, more or less, during the early computer days when the "computer department" generated reports because no one else had computers.
When he became department head, there were 150 reports generated for the company. His first act was to stop sending them. His plan was to permanently cancel any report that no one requested during the next 90 days. Half of the reports died.
He didn't have to leave his job to say FU to unnecessary work!
That's a dangerous tactic because some reports are only used at the end of a fiscal year. Best to take that into account. Otherwise, yep, it's a great way to cut out unnecessary work!
Schedule the 90 days to start shortly before the end of the FY.
Schedule the 90 days to start shortly before the end of the FY.
Early in my job life we had an old big-ass dot matrix printer spitting out vast ammounts of paper every morning. Noone used the output from this beast. When we pointed out that it was no point in printing this stuff the reply was that noone knew what job it was or how to stop it. It was something put on the mainframe probably 10-20 years ago and probably made sense at the time. Eventually someone figured out what it was and stopped it, or someone just threw up the monster of a printer, cant really remeber.
Schedule the 90 days to start shortly before the end of the FY.
Early in my job life we had an old big-ass dot matrix printer spitting out vast ammounts of paper every morning. Noone used the output from this beast. When we pointed out that it was no point in printing this stuff the reply was that noone knew what job it was or how to stop it. It was something put on the mainframe probably 10-20 years ago and probably made sense at the time. Eventually someone figured out what it was and stopped it, or someone just threw up the monster of a printer, cant really remeber.
Someone posted on craigslist today a free printer stand. It was one of those with the slit in the top of the table and the big empty space underneath for reams and reams of perforated printer paper. I was thinking about how so few people younger than me would even know what that table was made for. If you tried to tell kids today about paper that came in one continuous sheet that we had to separate at perforations, what would they say?
Anyone else build forts in the basement with it? Pretty sure I got in trouble. Worth it though!
Anyone else build forts in the basement with it? Pretty sure I got in trouble. Worth it though!
Blankets are a better fort material, due to the extra width and sound blocking.
Using piles of that continuous green bar paper was situation normal back then. It was the only way to get output from the mainframes. Also went through amazingng amounts of punch cards. From what I've heard. From older friends. Right.Graduation day watching the contents of a box of punch cards flutter down from the roof of the residence hall like oversized playing cards... Also, not me.
Using piles of that continuous green bar paper was situation normal back then. It was the only way to get output from the mainframes. Also went through amazingng amounts of punch cards. From what I've heard. From older friends. Right.I used to work on those printers & readers.
Using piles of that continuous green bar paper was situation normal back then. It was the only way to get output from the mainframes. Also went through amazingng amounts of punch cards. From what I've heard. From older friends. Right.I used to work on those printers & readers.
There's nothing quite like a banner printed at home or school on 10 to 20 linear feet of paper that is already attached together for you. I don't know how kids today cope without this being a regular part of their lives.
The Print Shop, maybe?There's nothing quite like a banner printed at home or school on 10 to 20 linear feet of paper that is already attached together for you. I don't know how kids today cope without this being a regular part of their lives.
Yeah, I’ve thought about that now and again over the years.
What was that print program that made banners? It’ll come to me….probably at 1am.
The Print Shop, maybe?There's nothing quite like a banner printed at home or school on 10 to 20 linear feet of paper that is already attached together for you. I don't know how kids today cope without this being a regular part of their lives.
Yeah, I’ve thought about that now and again over the years.
What was that print program that made banners? It’ll come to me….probably at 1am.
Not really epic, but after an executive not in my chain of command scheduled a meeting with me to discuss his disapproval of some actions he imagined but that I did not actually take, refused to listen when I told him as much, and patronizingly lectured me on how my actions could affect others in the organization, I emailed him and the CEO (his boss) some direct feedback explaining that he was out of line and requesting any future feedback be direct and actionable. Welp...we'll see how it goes over.That is epic, especially if your top brass take it as a teacheable moment.
Not really epic, but after an executive not in my chain of command scheduled a meeting with me to discuss his disapproval of some actions he imagined but that I did not actually take, refused to listen when I told him as much, and patronizingly lectured me on how my actions could affect others in the organization, I emailed him and the CEO (his boss) some direct feedback explaining that he was out of line and requesting any future feedback be direct and actionable. Welp...we'll see how it goes over.
Not really epic, but after an executive not in my chain of command scheduled a meeting with me to discuss his disapproval of some actions he imagined but that I did not actually take, refused to listen when I told him as much, and patronizingly lectured me on how my actions could affect others in the organization, I emailed him and the CEO (his boss) some direct feedback explaining that he was out of line and requesting any future feedback be direct and actionable. Welp...we'll see how it goes over.
If I had known that all I had to do get raises was be an ass to my boss, I would have started a long time ago...Hm maybe I should try this!
Fast forward to Tuesday, he calls me and tells me that I am too valuable to ever leave, so that means he needs to compensate me enough that he can call me on a Sunday for emergencies and not be upset. This compensation turned into an additional 10k for me
Of course, paying a Mustachian more “to keep them from ever leaving” may not be a successful move…
Fast forward to Tuesday, he calls me and tells me that I am too valuable to ever leave, so that means he needs to compensate me enough that he can call me on a Sunday for emergencies and not be upset. This compensation turned into an additional 10k for me
Epic AND hilarious! Were you even thinking you were flexing your FU money muscles here, or was it inadvertent?
Of course, paying a Mustachian more “to keep them from ever leaving” may not be a successful move…
Of course, paying a Mustachian more “to keep them from ever leaving” may not be a successful move…My boss once said he'd pay me more but I'd just leave sooner.
And you immediately submitted your resignation, right?Of course, paying a Mustachian more “to keep them from ever leaving” may not be a successful move…My boss once said he'd pay me more but I'd just leave sooner.
No, it was in a joking manor. However I now haveAnd you immediately submitted your resignation, right?Of course, paying a Mustachian more “to keep them from ever leaving” may not be a successful move…My boss once said he'd pay me more but I'd just leave sooner.
Does your boss know this?No, it was in a joking manor. However I now haveAnd you immediately submitted your resignation, right?Of course, paying a Mustachian more “to keep them from ever leaving” may not be a successful move…My boss once said he'd pay me more but I'd just leave sooner.2928 days left.
Oh yeah, I gave him 5 months notice. He said that over a year ago.Does your boss know this?No, it was in a joking manor. However I now haveAnd you immediately submitted your resignation, right?Of course, paying a Mustachian more “to keep them from ever leaving” may not be a successful move…My boss once said he'd pay me more but I'd just leave sooner.2928 days left.
I have about two years left to hit my number, but things have been rough at work. I am tired of having to manage my managers, among a great many other faults.
So after my wife realized just how unhappy I was she gave me the freedom to resign without getting anything lined up. I told my manager today what I was thinking. I gave him 48 hours to change my mind (i.e. come up with a viable plan to make things suck less) or he’ll get my official notice Friday. I like most of the folks I work with, including him, but the company just is a basket-case that has broken my spirit.
QuoteOf course, paying a Mustachian more “to keep them from ever leaving” may not be a successful move…
LOL! I've actually had that thought in my mind before, when I received raises/bonuses.
My employer thinks that they are rewarding me and making me loyal, in order to work harder and stay longer.... and for a mustachian, it is exactly the opposite!
I have about two years left to hit my number, but things have been rough at work. I am tired of having to manage my managers, among a great many other faults.
So after my wife realized just how unhappy I was she gave me the freedom to resign without getting anything lined up. I told my manager today what I was thinking. I gave him 48 hours to change my mind (i.e. come up with a viable plan to make things suck less) or he’ll get my official notice Friday. I like most of the folks I work with, including him, but the company just is a basket-case that has broken my spirit.
Definitely epic. Is 10k enough for your boss to call you on Sunday without you being upset?
Definitely epic. Is 10k enough for your boss to call you on Sunday without you being upset?
For now, yes. I have a reputation of being 'blunt' and not playing 'the game' (as it relates to office politics,etc.). There is a clear understanding of who needs who in this employer-employee relationship. Every person I have reported to knows how small I live, and it has allowed me to earn respect from my superiors since I can be honest without fear of losing my shirt. :)
Not really epic, but after an executive not in my chain of command scheduled a meeting with me to discuss his disapproval of some actions he imagined but that I did not actually take, refused to listen when I told him as much, and patronizingly lectured me on how my actions could affect others in the organization, I emailed him and the CEO (his boss) some direct feedback explaining that he was out of line and requesting any future feedback be direct and actionable. Welp...we'll see how it goes over.
In most organisations you actually get rewarded for speaking up, because there are a lot of people not wanting to do it. I have always said what I thought even though I have learned to be more diplomatic than in my youth.
I have made a point of asking 'dumb' questions in meetings in front of the new hire/fresh outs so they can see how it works and it is welcome (at least I hope that was what they took away). Also I have spoken to some of then about personal finance and recommended mmm. "I want you to feel financially secure so you can tell me I am full of shit when I am without fear of being fired and broke."Isn't it strange that there are so many people on the internets who like to tell everyone how shit they are but nearly nobody in real life?
Both my boss and the CEO backed me up, exec in question seems to realize be overreached despite a non-apology, and hopefully that's the last I have to think about it!Not really epic, but after an executive not in my chain of command scheduled a meeting with me to discuss his disapproval of some actions he imagined but that I did not actually take, refused to listen when I told him as much, and patronizingly lectured me on how my actions could affect others in the organization, I emailed him and the CEO (his boss) some direct feedback explaining that he was out of line and requesting any future feedback be direct and actionable. Welp...we'll see how it goes over.
Please come back and tell us how it goes.
Both my boss and the CEO backed me up, exec in question seems to realize be overreached despite a non-apology, and hopefully that's the last I have to think about it!Not really epic, but after an executive not in my chain of command scheduled a meeting with me to discuss his disapproval of some actions he imagined but that I did not actually take, refused to listen when I told him as much, and patronizingly lectured me on how my actions could affect others in the organization, I emailed him and the CEO (his boss) some direct feedback explaining that he was out of line and requesting any future feedback be direct and actionable. Welp...we'll see how it goes over.
Please come back and tell us how it goes.
My take is actually that, as someone else mentioned upthread, most people tend to respect you for having a spine and being politely assertive in such circumstances, which seems to be what happened here.
My wife exercised our fuck you money to perfection this week.
She applied for a senior business partner role at her current employer. It's a promotion in paper and dollars only as she's been doing the senior role for sometime already just without the recognition/reward. My wife's well respected by the managers she coaches, a great mentor to the younger staff in their team, and trusted by her team mates
She went through the whole interview process with her reporting manager (not one of the ones she coaches) and a couple of other staff, waited a couple of weeks, and was then told nope, no senior position for you, were hiring someone external...
My wife exercised our fuck you money to perfection this week.
She applied for a senior business partner role at her current employer. It's a promotion in paper and dollars only as she's been doing the senior role for sometime already just without the recognition/reward. My wife's well respected by the managers she coaches, a great mentor to the younger staff in their team, and trusted by her team mates
She went through the whole interview process with her reporting manager (not one of the ones she coaches) and a couple of other staff, waited a couple of weeks, and was then told nope, no senior position for you, were hiring someone external...
Update time. Because of our fuck you money, my wife has been picky about her next role... Now shes just signed up with a new organization at a higher level position, better salary and doing more of what she loves and less of what she doesn't.
Has she given notice yet? I want to hear how that went :-)My wife exercised our fuck you money to perfection this week.
She applied for a senior business partner role at her current employer. It's a promotion in paper and dollars only as she's been doing the senior role for sometime already just without the recognition/reward. My wife's well respected by the managers she coaches, a great mentor to the younger staff in their team, and trusted by her team mates
She went through the whole interview process with her reporting manager (not one of the ones she coaches) and a couple of other staff, waited a couple of weeks, and was then told nope, no senior position for you, were hiring someone external...
Update time. Because of our fuck you money, my wife has been picky about her next role... Now shes just signed up with a new organization at a higher level position, better salary and doing more of what she loves and less of what she doesn't.
Has she given notice yet? I want to hear how that went :-)My wife exercised our fuck you money to perfection this week.
She applied for a senior business partner role at her current employer. It's a promotion in paper and dollars only as she's been doing the senior role for sometime already just without the recognition/reward. My wife's well respected by the managers she coaches, a great mentor to the younger staff in their team, and trusted by her team mates
She went through the whole interview process with her reporting manager (not one of the ones she coaches) and a couple of other staff, waited a couple of weeks, and was then told nope, no senior position for you, were hiring someone external...
Update time. Because of our fuck you money, my wife has been picky about her next role... Now shes just signed up with a new organization at a higher level position, better salary and doing more of what she loves and less of what she doesn't.
Goddamn is this badass - end of that story in gooki's words: "The managers response was 'oh? Do you have somewhere else to go?' and my wife cool as ice says 'no, I'm happy to go', spins round and exits the room."Has she given notice yet? I want to hear how that went :-)My wife exercised our fuck you money to perfection this week.
She applied for a senior business partner role at her current employer. It's a promotion in paper and dollars only as she's been doing the senior role for sometime already just without the recognition/reward. My wife's well respected by the managers she coaches, a great mentor to the younger staff in their team, and trusted by her team mates
She went through the whole interview process with her reporting manager (not one of the ones she coaches) and a couple of other staff, waited a couple of weeks, and was then told nope, no senior position for you, were hiring someone external...
Update time. Because of our fuck you money, my wife has been picky about her next role... Now shes just signed up with a new organization at a higher level position, better salary and doing more of what she loves and less of what she doesn't.
She turned in her resignation in the original post with no place to go (IIRC). gooki cut the quote short.
I ended up giving them till today (Monday) to finish discussing my minimum line in the stand for changing things. Company policy is not bendable enough, so I signed my resignation later and slid it across the table. I feel for the managers, I like both of them personally, but the company has driven me crazy. 2 weeks and I'm out of here. Sad, but relieving.I have about two years left to hit my number, but things have been rough at work. I am tired of having to manage my managers, among a great many other faults.
So after my wife realized just how unhappy I was she gave me the freedom to resign without getting anything lined up. I told my manager today what I was thinking. I gave him 48 hours to change my mind (i.e. come up with a viable plan to make things suck less) or he’ll get my official notice Friday. I like most of the folks I work with, including him, but the company just is a basket-case that has broken my spirit.
FU money is a wonderful thing and this is what it's for! Good job!
I ended up giving them till today (Monday) to finish discussing my minimum line in the stand for changing things. Company policy is not bendable enough, so I signed my resignation later and slid it across the table. I feel for the managers, I like both of them personally, but the company has driven me crazy. 2 weeks and I'm out of here. Sad, but relieving.I have about two years left to hit my number, but things have been rough at work. I am tired of having to manage my managers, among a great many other faults.
So after my wife realized just how unhappy I was she gave me the freedom to resign without getting anything lined up. I told my manager today what I was thinking. I gave him 48 hours to change my mind (i.e. come up with a viable plan to make things suck less) or he’ll get my official notice Friday. I like most of the folks I work with, including him, but the company just is a basket-case that has broken my spirit.
FU money is a wonderful thing and this is what it's for! Good job!
My wife exercised our fuck you money to perfection this week.
She applied for a senior business partner role at her current employer. It's a promotion in paper and dollars only as she's been doing the senior role for sometime already just without the recognition/reward. My wife's well respected by the managers she coaches, a great mentor to the younger staff in their team, and trusted by her team mates
She went through the whole interview process with her reporting manager (not one of the ones she coaches) and a couple of other staff, waited a couple of weeks, and was then told nope, no senior position for you, were hiring someone external...
Update time. Because of our fuck you money, my wife has been picky about her next role... Now shes just signed up with a new organization at a higher level position, better salary and doing more of what she loves and less of what she doesn't.
I ended up giving them till today (Monday) to finish discussing my minimum line in the stand for changing things. Company policy is not bendable enough, so I signed my resignation later and slid it across the table. I feel for the managers, I like both of them personally, but the company has driven me crazy. 2 weeks and I'm out of here. Sad, but relieving.
I suspect the rigid bureaucracy and HR processes in the company have more to do with your only-10% raise and your bosses' silence than any intent the bosses may have had.To be fair, I did not blame my bosses - they were only the symptom of the company's many failings. I do, however, blame my immediate boss (a typical MBA cultist who never even bothered to install the Excel ODBC connections in 3 years of working there...) for lying. He'd claimed he'd promoted lots of people under him (turned out that wasn't true), and he kept dangling a carrot in front of me, saying I "won't believe how huge the raise is gonna be! :) " It later turned out that he had no idea what it would actually be LOL - compared to his grandiose promises, 10% seemed rather on the low side. Ahhh, corporate world...
Nice work creating a plan and then executing it to get what you want in life! Bravo.Thanks, eh. :) I like to think of myself as a strategist. Most people live paycheck to paycheck and plan 2 weeks out. I plan 5-10 years at a time. I actually do make literal 5-year plans for myself - I write them down, then document my progress, etc. You can take a boy from the Soviet Union... :P
Thanks. :) And yeah, that was such an indescribable feeling, driving back home after turning in my badge and my laptop, knowing that not only did I complete my 5-year plan ahead of time, but that I also managed to beat the system by retiring 30 years ahead of time. This is what the Ocean's Eleven crew must have felt like after they pulled off the heist hahahaha
Congrats! It's so rewarding to develop and successfully execute a plan.
Thanks. :) And yeah, that was such an indescribable feeling, driving back home after turning in my badge and my laptop, knowing that not only did I complete my 5-year plan ahead of time, but that I also managed to beat the system by retiring 30 years ahead of time. This is what the Ocean's Eleven crew must have felt like after they pulled off the heist hahahaha
Congrats! It's so rewarding to develop and successfully execute a plan.
Thanks. :) And yeah, that was such an indescribable feeling, driving back home after turning in my badge and my laptop, knowing that not only did I complete my 5-year plan ahead of time, but that I also managed to beat the system by retiring 30 years ahead of time. This is what the Ocean's Eleven crew must have felt like after they pulled off the heist hahahaha
Okay, this isn't technically an "FU money" story, but it is epic, it involves quitting a job, and there was an "FU", so I think it fits.
Moral of the story: Don't toss your cookies in front of other people.Yes, be more discreet when you "toss your cookies" or "reverse drink" or "talk to Ralph on the big white telephone" :-)
How dumb was that manager to use your dad as a reference? Even if he didn't think your dad knew about the cookie incident, it sounds like there wasn't much goodwill between them.
I had an potential in-house interviewee/hire, and asked a reference (also in-house) and got the response "I wouldn't touch [person X] with a ten foot pole".Okay, this isn't technically an "FU money" story, but it is epic, it involves quitting a job, and there was an "FU", so I think it fits.
How dumb was that manager to use your dad as a reference? Even if he didn't think your dad knew about the cookie incident, it sounds like there wasn't much goodwill between them.
I agree, this is the more likely scenario.How dumb was that manager to use your dad as a reference? Even if he didn't think your dad knew about the cookie incident, it sounds like there wasn't much goodwill between them.
The manager may not have used him as a reference. The guy at BigCo was a former colleague, so he may have just been using his contacts to check the manager out, beyond any provided references.
Moral of the story: Don't toss your cookies in front of other people.Yes, be more discreet when you "toss your cookies" or "reverse drink" or "talk to Ralph on the big white telephone" :-)
For a chronically absent employee | A man like him is hard to find. |
For a dishonest employee | He's an unbelievable worker. |
For a lazy employee | You would indeed be fortunate to get this person to work for you. |
For the office drunk | Every hour with him was a happy hour. |
For a chronically absent employee | It seemed her career was just taking off. |
For a dishonest employee | Her true ability was deceiving. |
For a stupid employee | I most enthusiastically recommend this candidate with no qualifications whatsoever. |
For the office drunk | He generally found him loaded with work to do. |
For an employee who is not worth further consideration as a job candidate | All in all, I cannot say enough good things about this candidate or recommend him too highly. |
For an employee who is so unproductive that the job is better left unfilled | I can assure you that no person would be better for the job. |
For a lazy employee | He could not care less about the number of hours he has to put in. |
For an employee who is not worth further consideration as a job candidate | I would urge you to waste no time in making this candidate an offer of employment. |
For a stupid employee | There is nothing you can teach a man like him. |
@SwordGuy thank you for my laugh out loud moment of the day.
In no particular order... :)Thanks. :) And yeah, that was such an indescribable feeling, driving back home after turning in my badge and my laptop, knowing that not only did I complete my 5-year plan ahead of time, but that I also managed to beat the system by retiring 30 years ahead of time. This is what the Ocean's Eleven crew must have felt like after they pulled off the heist hahahaha
Congrats! It's so rewarding to develop and successfully execute a plan.
What are the highlights for the updated 5-year plan?
@jinga nation I'd like to know how you determined what the employer fees/costs were on each plan. Is there a specific document to find it on? I ask because I want to convince my boss to change our SIMPLE IRA from Raymond James/MFS to Fidelity or somewhere similar. RJ/MFS have taken away the sales charge when I buy my A shares each month, but the quarterly charges have increased to my account. I have access to our company's books (I'm sort of HR, though someone else does the retirement contributions), and to the company's side of the retirement accounts. I just need to know what to look for.What I really want to know, what did your boss say when you told him you were quitting after all, a few weeks later?He was a big fan of phrases/sayings, the midwesterner he was.
So I told him I wasn't impressed by his batting average.
And that a blind man could have been batting better than his attempts to get me anything bigger.
And that I had to take care of myself, my family, and my health (mental in this case).
^all 3 were verbatim phrases he'd say all the time.
It left him gobsmacked. He tried to say something, 3 seconds of incoherent mumbling, and then he put out his hand and said he wished me all the best. He acknowledged at my leaving lunch that it would be hard to replace me.
I moved to a building right across from my old workplace, and sometimes I have to go to his department for a meeting with engineers there, and end up meeting him. But he's been polite and cordial since (he got promoted).
Another bonus of being a Mustachian and ex-Boglehead is that at my current employer, I complained about our crappy 401k. The owners told me to write up a paper showing proof, which convinced them. Ended up moving the 401k to Guideline, reducing employer fees/costs by 77%.
@jinga nation I'd like to know how you determined what the employer fees/costs were on each plan. Is there a specific document to find it on? I ask because I want to convince my boss to change our SIMPLE IRA from Raymond James/MFS to Fidelity or somewhere similar. RJ/MFS have taken away the sales charge when I buy my A shares each month, but the quarterly charges have increased to my account. I have access to our company's books (I'm sort of HR, though someone else does the retirement contributions), and to the company's side of the retirement accounts. I just need to know what to look for.What I really want to know, what did your boss say when you told him you were quitting after all, a few weeks later?He was a big fan of phrases/sayings, the midwesterner he was.
So I told him I wasn't impressed by his batting average.
And that a blind man could have been batting better than his attempts to get me anything bigger.
And that I had to take care of myself, my family, and my health (mental in this case).
^all 3 were verbatim phrases he'd say all the time.
It left him gobsmacked. He tried to say something, 3 seconds of incoherent mumbling, and then he put out his hand and said he wished me all the best. He acknowledged at my leaving lunch that it would be hard to replace me.
I moved to a building right across from my old workplace, and sometimes I have to go to his department for a meeting with engineers there, and end up meeting him. But he's been polite and cordial since (he got promoted).
Another bonus of being a Mustachian and ex-Boglehead is that at my current employer, I complained about our crappy 401k. The owners told me to write up a paper showing proof, which convinced them. Ended up moving the 401k to Guideline, reducing employer fees/costs by 77%.
To note, I work on a family-owned farm, with a bunch of employees but my boss is my Dad, and the "other person" who handles retirement contributions is my Mom. So, easy to access the information if I know what I'm looking for. I've looked before, but they make it tricky to find such things.
@jinga nation I'd like to know how you determined what the employer fees/costs were on each plan. Is there a specific document to find it on? I ask because I want to convince my boss to change our SIMPLE IRA from Raymond James/MFS to Fidelity or somewhere similar. RJ/MFS have taken away the sales charge when I buy my A shares each month, but the quarterly charges have increased to my account. I have access to our company's books (I'm sort of HR, though someone else does the retirement contributions), and to the company's side of the retirement accounts. I just need to know what to look for.What I really want to know, what did your boss say when you told him you were quitting after all, a few weeks later?He was a big fan of phrases/sayings, the midwesterner he was.
So I told him I wasn't impressed by his batting average.
And that a blind man could have been batting better than his attempts to get me anything bigger.
And that I had to take care of myself, my family, and my health (mental in this case).
^all 3 were verbatim phrases he'd say all the time.
It left him gobsmacked. He tried to say something, 3 seconds of incoherent mumbling, and then he put out his hand and said he wished me all the best. He acknowledged at my leaving lunch that it would be hard to replace me.
I moved to a building right across from my old workplace, and sometimes I have to go to his department for a meeting with engineers there, and end up meeting him. But he's been polite and cordial since (he got promoted).
Another bonus of being a Mustachian and ex-Boglehead is that at my current employer, I complained about our crappy 401k. The owners told me to write up a paper showing proof, which convinced them. Ended up moving the 401k to Guideline, reducing employer fees/costs by 77%.
To note, I work on a family-owned farm, with a bunch of employees but my boss is my Dad, and the "other person" who handles retirement contributions is my Mom. So, easy to access the information if I know what I'm looking for. I've looked before, but they make it tricky to find such things.
Asked my employer's plan admin to find out the 401k plan provider's annual plan admin fees, record keeping/admin/trustee/custodial activities, average investment expense ratio, annual advisor fee, advisory expenses, first year plan costs, loan/distribution fees, and find out which of these are employer paid and which are borne by employee. Use these to come up with a gross ER and effective annual per participant cost. And ask the same questions to the prospects.
@jinga nation I'd like to know how you determined what the employer fees/costs were on each plan. Is there a specific document to find it on? I ask because I want to convince my boss to change our SIMPLE IRA from Raymond James/MFS to Fidelity or somewhere similar. RJ/MFS have taken away the sales charge when I buy my A shares each month, but the quarterly charges have increased to my account. I have access to our company's books (I'm sort of HR, though someone else does the retirement contributions), and to the company's side of the retirement accounts. I just need to know what to look for.What I really want to know, what did your boss say when you told him you were quitting after all, a few weeks later?He was a big fan of phrases/sayings, the midwesterner he was.
So I told him I wasn't impressed by his batting average.
And that a blind man could have been batting better than his attempts to get me anything bigger.
And that I had to take care of myself, my family, and my health (mental in this case).
^all 3 were verbatim phrases he'd say all the time.
It left him gobsmacked. He tried to say something, 3 seconds of incoherent mumbling, and then he put out his hand and said he wished me all the best. He acknowledged at my leaving lunch that it would be hard to replace me.
I moved to a building right across from my old workplace, and sometimes I have to go to his department for a meeting with engineers there, and end up meeting him. But he's been polite and cordial since (he got promoted).
Another bonus of being a Mustachian and ex-Boglehead is that at my current employer, I complained about our crappy 401k. The owners told me to write up a paper showing proof, which convinced them. Ended up moving the 401k to Guideline, reducing employer fees/costs by 77%.
To note, I work on a family-owned farm, with a bunch of employees but my boss is my Dad, and the "other person" who handles retirement contributions is my Mom. So, easy to access the information if I know what I'm looking for. I've looked before, but they make it tricky to find such things.
Asked my employer's plan admin to find out the 401k plan provider's annual plan admin fees, record keeping/admin/trustee/custodial activities, average investment expense ratio, annual advisor fee, advisory expenses, first year plan costs, loan/distribution fees, and find out which of these are employer paid and which are borne by employee. Use these to come up with a gross ER and effective annual per participant cost. And ask the same questions to the prospects.
Thanks. I was hoping most of this would be on some special form. Looks like I'll be digging for it.
saying I "won't believe how huge the raise is gonna be! :) " It later turned out that he had no idea what it would actually be LOL - compared to his grandiose promises, 10% seemed rather on the low side.Now, did you believe what you saw when you saw it or not?
hahahaha - I'd had a sneaking suspicion that I'd get screwed, so I'd intentionally let my hopes down. (I just wanted to see what it was that I'd spent so many years chasing, before I finally quit. Something to cross of my list, you know?) So yes, I definitely believed it when I saw that moving up by a whole new level was a measly 10% raise. Cheapskates. :Psaying I "won't believe how huge the raise is gonna be! :) " It later turned out that he had no idea what it would actually be LOL - compared to his grandiose promises, 10% seemed rather on the low side.Now, did you believe what you saw when you saw it or not?
I'd like to know how you determined what the employer fees/costs were on each plan. Is there a specific document to find it on? I ask because I want to convince my boss to change our SIMPLE IRA from Raymond James/MFS to Fidelity or somewhere similar. RJ/MFS have taken away the sales charge when I buy my A shares each month, but the quarterly charges have increased to my account. I have access to our company's books (I'm sort of HR, though someone else does the retirement contributions), and to the company's side of the retirement accounts. I just need to know what to look for.Here you go. $25 per participant per year, waived with $50k in assets.
Re informal references.... I worked at company A. Left there, was working at company B. Company B is hiring, and a guy from company A applies. The manager asked if I knew the guy. Yes, I did. Couldn't speak to his work. But I could speak to the restraining order that one of the women in that department had to take out against him.
Your actions have a way of following you.
We finally have enough money for the time we have left, and I'm prioritizing time.
tl;dr - was planning on quitting/retiring, got 3 months paid vacation instead, and will sort the job when I return.
tl;dr - was planning on quitting/retiring, got 3 months paid vacation instead, and will sort the job when I return.
Not quite an FU story because I love my boss and my job but when the pandemic hit I started working from home. My daughter who's disabled also lost her day program.Good for you! Glad they figured something out..
We got through the lockdown pretty well but in October they told me I had to come back to work 5 days per 2 week pay period. My daughter is getting services 2 days a week for 2.5 hours each time. I told my boss I would be working from home 5 days a pay period and using up my vacation time the days I was required to be in (I'd be done by Dec. 31) I wasn't planning on retiring just yet but because of all the planning and saving I did it would be something I could easily do.
Because I've got a ton of institutional knowledge my boss really didn't want to lose me so my supervisor's supervisor went to the big boss and I'm working from home most of the time and going in when my child has care. I like my co-workers so going in a couple of afternoons a week has been great but I also know that if they change their mind I'm good with that too.
A decade or so ago in town far away I started a new job with EvilMegaCorp. This would be my 3rd company after college and I had 11 years’ experience at this point. I have always had exemplary reviews; I work hard and expect my compensation to match my effort. At EvilMegaCorp we manufactured very complex Widgets and I was a Manufacturing Engineer for them. I was hired to do job A for Boss A but 2 weeks after I start a guy in a critical position quit and I was asked to do Job B for Boss B. Let’s call Boss B “Brian”.
fuck that guy.A decade or so ago in town far away I started a new job with EvilMegaCorp. This would be my 3rd company after college and I had 11 years’ experience at this point. I have always had exemplary reviews; I work hard and expect my compensation to match my effort. At EvilMegaCorp we manufactured very complex Widgets and I was a Manufacturing Engineer for them. I was hired to do job A for Boss A but 2 weeks after I start a guy in a critical position quit and I was asked to do Job B for Boss B. Let’s call Boss B “Brian”.
Here is a quick add on story from working for the same supervisor:
We had a talented young female engineer “Bella” in our department. Brian told us in staff meeting that Bella was considering taking a different job and that she presently couldn’t be at the staff meeting as the Director of Engineering had come from out of town to try to convince her not to leave. Brian then explained that the Director had a “woman quota” to maintain. Just after he gets done explaining it, Bella walks into the meeting we are presently having. Brian then tells her that he was just talking behind her back and the Director was there to maintain the “woman quota”. Yeah she quit…
fuck that guy.A decade or so ago in town far away I started a new job with EvilMegaCorp. This would be my 3rd company after college and I had 11 years’ experience at this point. I have always had exemplary reviews; I work hard and expect my compensation to match my effort. At EvilMegaCorp we manufactured very complex Widgets and I was a Manufacturing Engineer for them. I was hired to do job A for Boss A but 2 weeks after I start a guy in a critical position quit and I was asked to do Job B for Boss B. Let’s call Boss B “Brian”.
Here is a quick add on story from working for the same supervisor:
We had a talented young female engineer “Bella” in our department. Brian told us in staff meeting that Bella was considering taking a different job and that she presently couldn’t be at the staff meeting as the Director of Engineering had come from out of town to try to convince her not to leave. Brian then explained that the Director had a “woman quota” to maintain. Just after he gets done explaining it, Bella walks into the meeting we are presently having. Brian then tells her that he was just talking behind her back and the Director was there to maintain the “woman quota”. Yeah she quit…
Signed, a female engineer who is tired of this shit.
Sounds like Brian has a 'man quota' he wanted to keep. Good on the engineer for quitting that sexist bullcrap. Just wish someone had let the VP know so Brian could be fired. Oh well, stuff like this is why I keep accumulating the stash. ~Another female engineerfuck that guy.A decade or so ago in town far away I started a new job with EvilMegaCorp. This would be my 3rd company after college and I had 11 years’ experience at this point. I have always had exemplary reviews; I work hard and expect my compensation to match my effort. At EvilMegaCorp we manufactured very complex Widgets and I was a Manufacturing Engineer for them. I was hired to do job A for Boss A but 2 weeks after I start a guy in a critical position quit and I was asked to do Job B for Boss B. Let’s call Boss B “Brian”.
Here is a quick add on story from working for the same supervisor:
We had a talented young female engineer “Bella” in our department. Brian told us in staff meeting that Bella was considering taking a different job and that she presently couldn’t be at the staff meeting as the Director of Engineering had come from out of town to try to convince her not to leave. Brian then explained that the Director had a “woman quota” to maintain. Just after he gets done explaining it, Bella walks into the meeting we are presently having. Brian then tells her that he was just talking behind her back and the Director was there to maintain the “woman quota”. Yeah she quit…
Signed, a female engineer who is tired of this shit.
glad to see this forum is meeting their women engineer quota.I fear we might fall short of the male nurse quota though.
glad to see this forum is meeting their women engineer quota.
There's at least one, Murse, and maybe some more?glad to see this forum is meeting their women engineer quota.I fear we might fall short of the male nurse quota though.
glad to see this forum is meeting their women engineer quota.
I'm a male in IT/Tech/Engineering. When I hear stupid fake shit about women from a team lead/manager/leadership because of some make-believe stereotype, immediate red flag is raised, and I start looking for opportunities externally. Because this time it was women, next time it will about a minority, and it will go on. In my experience, HR does nothing, so time to bail. That FU Stash activation feels so good.
A decade or so ago in town far away I started a new job with EvilMegaCorp. This would be my 3rd company after college and I had 11 years’ experience at this point. I have always had exemplary reviews; I work hard and expect my compensation to match my effort. At EvilMegaCorp we manufactured very complex Widgets and I was a Manufacturing Engineer for them. I was hired to do job A for Boss A but 2 weeks after I start a guy in a critical position quit and I was asked to do Job B for Boss B. Let’s call Boss B “Brian”.
Here is a quick add on story from working for the same supervisor:
We had a talented young female engineer “Bella” in our department. Brian told us in staff meeting that Bella was considering taking a different job and that she presently couldn’t be at the staff meeting as the Director of Engineering had come from out of town to try to convince her not to leave. Brian then explained that the Director had a “woman quota” to maintain. Just after he gets done explaining it, Bella walks into the meeting we are presently having. Brian then tells her that he was just talking behind her back and the Director was there to maintain the “woman quota”. Yeah she quit…
People can actually be sexist dicks without being autistic (and vice versa :) )
People can actually be sexist dicks without being autistic (and vice versa :) )
Absolutely! The general name for Brian's mental disease is called "Bigotry", a more specific categorization would be "Misogyny".
glad to see this forum is meeting their women engineer quota.
I'm a male in IT/Tech/Engineering. When I hear stupid fake shit about women from a team lead/manager/leadership because of some make-believe stereotype, immediate red flag is raised, and I start looking for opportunities externally. Because this time it was women, next time it will about a minority, and it will go on. In my experience, HR does nothing, so time to bail. That FU Stash activation feels so good.
IF you feel that you're in a position to do so, it would be super-cool if you would push back on that shit.
Because it's far more effective when a bro says "seriously dude? The 1950s called, and they want their sexism back" then when a woman says ... anything, because that makes her a bitchy bitch.
It might seem super-cool to many when men stand up for women in the workplace, but we're the ones who get the shaft TOO, financially and morally.
It might seem super-cool to many when men stand up for women in the workplace, but we're the ones who get the shaft TOO, financially and morally.
Fixed that for you. Women and minorities were ALREADY getting the shaft.
And thanks for speaking up.
@jinga nation , thanks for trying, and I'm sorry it ended so poorly for you. Your managers were assholes, what can I say?I am a senior engineer and in a position to speak up. We do not put up with any of that crap on my projects. High preforming teams are built on respect and trust. We call it out immediately. Sexism and bigotry can not be tolerated in any setting.
I did say "if you feel that you're in a position to do so", because if the Bros don't speak up, how will this BS ever end?
@jinga nation , thanks for trying, and I'm sorry it ended so poorly for you. Your managers were assholes, what can I say?I am a senior engineer and in a position to speak up. We do not put up with any of that crap on my projects. High preforming teams are built on respect and trust. We call it out immediately. Sexism and bigotry can not be tolerated in any setting.
I did say "if you feel that you're in a position to do so", because if the Bros don't speak up, how will this BS ever end?
I guess I understand that my stash and position and the fact I could retire make speaking up easy for me.
Swanee
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
People can actually be sexist dicks without being autistic (and vice versa :) )
Absolutely! The general name for Brian's mental disease is called "Bigotry", a more specific categorization would be "Misogyny".
Indeed, no need to smear neuro-divergent folks when the answer is simple: he’s an ass.
People can actually be sexist dicks without being autistic (and vice versa :) )
Absolutely! The general name for Brian's mental disease is called "Bigotry", a more specific categorization would be "Misogyny".
Indeed, no need to smear neuro-divergent folks when the answer is simple: he’s an ass.
I was asking because it’s sad when people who genuinely did not know better because of something that’s not their fault get called names like “bigot”, “ass”, and “misogynistic”. The fact is, we don’t know why Brian said what he said, and even though what he said was inappropriate and unkind, calling him names is also unkind.
People can actually be sexist dicks without being autistic (and vice versa :) )
Absolutely! The general name for Brian's mental disease is called "Bigotry", a more specific categorization would be "Misogyny".
Indeed, no need to smear neuro-divergent folks when the answer is simple: he’s an ass.
I was asking because it’s sad when people who genuinely did not know better because of something that’s not their fault get called names like “bigot”, “ass”, and “misogynistic”. The fact is, we don’t know why Brian said what he said, and even though what he said was inappropriate and unkind, calling him names is also unkind.
Sure it's possible, but other examples from the story indicate Brian had enough social awareness to know how to throw OP under the bus at work to railroad him out. Internet diagnosis of "mysogynist asshat" seems to fit the available information.
Part of longstanding patterns of discrimination is that straight white males don't get picked up on mistakes (like Brian disclosing confidential information) in circumstances where others who aren't straight white males do. He can afford to be a shit because he is protected by that status, the fall-off rate for people without that status is high because one mistake derails their career.
Part of longstanding patterns of discrimination is that straight white males don't get picked up on mistakes (like Brian disclosing confidential information) in circumstances where others who aren't straight white males do. He can afford to be a shit because he is protected by that status, the fall-off rate for people without that status is high because one mistake derails their career.
Just look at Brock Turner for an amazing example of the principle.
Because if I didn't, the female gov employee, a Navy vet and disabled and minority, who sat next cube over, who heard these 2 muppets, was getting ready to make an official complaint. And if that had happened, shit would have hit the fan, everyone would have to go for mandatory training, projects would get impacted, and potential loss of contract and going into the agency's bad books (employers and personnel).
I'm sure there are places of work where a complaint to the hierarchy about the way the hierarchy works is dealt with fairly and without adverse consequences to the complainant. There just aren't very many, and those that there are tend to be in the public sector where 1) the hierarchy doesn't have money invested in the business and 2) there are outside pressures on standards and openness.Because if I didn't, the female gov employee, a Navy vet and disabled and minority, who sat next cube over, who heard these 2 muppets, was getting ready to make an official complaint. And if that had happened, shit would have hit the fan, everyone would have to go for mandatory training, projects would get impacted, and potential loss of contract and going into the agency's bad books (employers and personnel).
Here’s the part I don’t like and feel gets in the way of working to make continuous forward progress.
A lot of places have systems in place in an attempt to keep improving. If these systems aren’t used, how in the hell can anyone expect improvement? We all need to be accountable and act swiftly.
If there was a basis for an official complaint, then there should have been an official complaint filed. It is much easier to clean the shit when it is on the fan.
5. Without the bad there cannot be good. If I ran into Brian on the street today, was having a bad day and he made some stupid comment, I might be tempted to punch his face. Nevertheless, without him I would not have known how good the rest of my supervisors have been; how good the rest of my career has been. There is a part of me that is grateful to that Asshat, because now when I have a “bad” day, I reflect back and think of what really bad days are like. I realize how blessed I have been for the great coworkers, management, and people in my life. Life is good and I am grateful for that.
... It is much easier to clean the shit when it is on the fan.
... It is much easier to clean the shit when it is on the fan.
This is a terrible analogy! It would be really hard to clean.
I'm sure there are places of work where a complaint to the hierarchy about the way the hierarchy works is dealt with fairly and without adverse consequences to the complainant. There just aren't very many, and those that there are tend to be in the public sector where 1) the hierarchy doesn't have money invested in the business and 2) there are outside pressures on standards and openness.Because if I didn't, the female gov employee, a Navy vet and disabled and minority, who sat next cube over, who heard these 2 muppets, was getting ready to make an official complaint. And if that had happened, shit would have hit the fan, everyone would have to go for mandatory training, projects would get impacted, and potential loss of contract and going into the agency's bad books (employers and personnel).
Here’s the part I don’t like and feel gets in the way of working to make continuous forward progress.
A lot of places have systems in place in an attempt to keep improving. If these systems aren’t used, how in the hell can anyone expect improvement? We all need to be accountable and act swiftly.
If there was a basis for an official complaint, then there should have been an official complaint filed. It is much easier to clean the shit when it is on the fan.
Not quite an FU story because I love my boss and my job but when the pandemic hit I started working from home. My daughter who's disabled also lost her day program.
We got through the lockdown pretty well but in October they told me I had to come back to work 5 days per 2 week pay period. My daughter is getting services 2 days a week for 2.5 hours each time. I told my boss I would be working from home 5 days a pay period and using up my vacation time the days I was required to be in (I'd be done by Dec. 31) I wasn't planning on retiring just yet but because of all the planning and saving I did it would be something I could easily do.
Because I've got a ton of institutional knowledge my boss really didn't want to lose me so my supervisor's supervisor went to the big boss and I'm working from home most of the time and going in when my child has care. I like my co-workers so going in a couple of afternoons a week has been great but I also know that if they change their mind I'm good with that too.
I don't know if my situation is a FU money story or a MPP. (If y'all say MPP, I'll move it there.)
A couple of weeks ago, a cloud service provider (CSP) recruiter contacted me for a position. A relative works there. Had the 30 minute screening call (which was almost an hour) and it went well, which opened up a few different opportunities in different customer sectors due to my background and experience. I was to send my résumé to recruiter and they would let me know "as soon as possible". I asked them to clarify benefits, working hours, etc.
However, this was just before the holidays, so I didn't expect a reply. But it got me thinking. Do I really want this position? To have this big name company on my résumé, and for what? I've done stints are 3 other Fortune 500s where I was a just a small tooth on a cog, in an organization of hundreds of cogs. I talked to my relative, who explained the interview process, and how to prepare, etc.
The recruiter explained the benefits, said they were excellent for the industry. 10 days of time off for the first 3 years, use as you accrue, and 6 personal days, plus 7 public holidays. The base pay he mentioned was about $4k more than I get. But the real trade off is the stock (RSU). CSP is known for having a wrote in stone pay/RSU policy, there's no negotiating. They lock in your pay/RSU for 4 years.
Current small sized employer has a rule that as long as I bill customer 1800H/year, or 150H/month on average, I can take the rest of the time off. Since non-billable time is minimal, less than 8H/year, I get PTO of 5 weeks. Plus I get 10 public holidays (work in the DoD sector, so get President's Day, Veterans' Day, Columbus Day).
In essence, I'd be trading time off for stock and a few more work hours per week and increased travel (when the company lifts the work from home rule). New job would be 20-30% domestic flying around and 45H/week of billing.
I work for a good, small professional services company, we've become known for a niche specialty, our CEO and CTO are always working on new contracts/renewals and they have a technical background where the company culture is excellent. Lots of autonomy, I am a team/project lead, and help on other projects too, some proposals and proof-of-concepts.
Currently I work from home and travel to local customer site 2-3 days/week. I'm home by 4pm, drop my young kids for their sports training and go exercise. Help out kids with homework after dinner and help the wife cook/clean up the kitchen. No out of town travel away from family. Plus get to see my dad over dinner 2-3x/week when he joins us.
Wife and I have good pay, rental income from several condos, 2 homes (renovating one, then moving in, and selling the old one in this crazy RE market), and retirement/brokerage accounts. We aren't in need of more money (and more stress) at the expense of a balanced work/life routine. My wife is looking at changing jobs to a less stressful and lesser hours gig.
We have FU money, we are technically FI, in the 2 comma club. We're already talking about me going FIRE in 12 years, when I turn 55 (because my job and industry is fun, because the people are fun). Wife probably will be retiring earlier. And we'll downsize. All this is in the IPS/long-term plan.
I don't need or want the CSP gig.
Thanks FU Money.
I don't know if my situation is a FU money story or a MPP. (If y'all say MPP, I'll move it there.)https://images.app.goo.gl/VNkTZeHb8fBgbipz6
Glad someone saved the images, that was an entertaining read. I like how furious he is over the loss of $X but won't pay him a fraction of $X to save it, out of pride. Sure is expensive to be prideful.
Saw this one on Facebook: https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rn52k6/twas_the_night_before_my_resignation/
tl;dr:
Guy with FU money (henceforce GWFUM) is a key player in his organization, is the only person with his skills at the company, despite trying to get a backup. Saves his vacation days so he can take the holidays off. High-priority contract comes up in Dec, due by EOY. Client waits two weeks to send required information. GWFUM's boss tells GWFUM on Dec 21that the job must be done and that he (boss) has declined GWFUM's time off. On top of that, HR department stands firm that days off are use-it-or-lose-it.
GWFUM resigns.
Urgent Client is now facing hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines. GWFUM's now-former employer is facing $10k's of penalties per day for not fulfilling their contracts (not just with Urgent Client, but other existing clients). GWFUM enjoys his holidays with his family.
GWFUM's post with images of the conversation via text got deleted by reddit's moderators, but someone on Facebook captured it first, and you can see it here: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3113816372271449&set=pcb.3113816665604753
Saw this one on Facebook: https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rn52k6/twas_the_night_before_my_resignation/
Entertaining, but impossible to believe
Posted by iambeaker Submissions Comments at Thu, Dec 30, 2021 11:03 AM in antiwork
...There arose such a clatter, I sprang from my bed to see what was the matter.
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rs554s/there_arose_such_a_clatter_i_sprang_from_my_bed/
0 Comments
Apologies for the delay in response... I had a personal matter which needed urgent attention. [I appreciate awards, but please save lives instead. In memory of my friend, who used to take 2 hour lunches with me.](https://diabetes.org/) Again, I appreciate all the messages of support, offers of help, and the spirited debate. I understand both sides of the business and I welcome all feedback. *Previously:* **Part 1:** [Twas The Night Before My Resignation](https://reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rn52k6/twas_the_night_before_my_resignation/) **Part 2:** [Not A Creature Was Stirring](https://reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rq0cmc/not_a_creature_was_stirring/) [Part 2 Text Conversation (Deleted due to Rule Violation)](https://imgur.com/a/UoGdpZI) **Previously:** Manager notified me I would need to work the week between Christmas and New Year's Day despite me having the week off approved (July). This determination was made in part to a government contractor (the client) facing a fine due to noncompliance as a result of an audit. Requests for data needed to bring the client into compliance were ignored until days before Christmas. I chose family over company and resigned the Monday after Christmas. Starting the Monday after Christmas, the manager begins to use different types of manipulation techniques and smear campaigns to change my mind. The company's CEO helps strong arm the process. During this time, a different client sends a corrupted file, and the department processes the file, causing an entire branch of reports to go down. The company is bound by a uptime clause in the contract, causing panic within the company. For every hour the reports are unresponsive, the company is fined (per report). I offer various solutions to help the company mediate the solution, but the offers are rejected. **Present Day:** Throughout the day, the manager and CEO send a barrage of texts and phone calls. One of my coworkers finds the documentation and fixes the reports. Later in the afternoon, he is served corrective action because he was accountable for processing the corrupted file and did not find the documentation faster. He tells me the manager, HR, and the CEO spent all night finding evidence to support the corrective action. I tell him to get his resume up to date. Total down time: 16 hours Around 3pm, I get a phone call from a new number. It was the client's business manager (the liaison between the former company and the client). I explained to her the delay of getting data until Christmas (despite multiple requests), the loss of a full week of PTO, the text messages/phone calls, and my offer to come back to help her company reach compliance. The business manager told me a different story. The manager and CEO called her earlier to inform her I quit and I am "stalling the project as ransom" in order to obtain more money. I explained how one could skew this view, but I am not actively seeking to return. After observing how the company treats their employees and after being treated post resignation, I have no interest in returning to the company. The business manager asks me what terms (rate, signing bonus, etc.) what I was seeking to return to my former company. She tells me she will call back in an hour and not respond to any more texts from the manager or CEO. **CEO Text:** Did the business manager call you? Did she give you a piece of her mind? **Manager Text:** I bet the business manager is going to make you personally pay for that fine! The business manager calls me back on a conference call and asks, "What do you need to finish this project? Software, data, tools, etc.?" I give her a list of everything I need. I answer other questions related to the project. She says, "Here's the plan. We are going to offer you a contract to finish this API for us by the end of the year for double the hourly rate you asked. If you can finish by 12/31, we will give you the signing bonus. After the New Year, we will see where we are staffing wise and maybe, we can find you a spot, but there is no guarantee, especially if you do not the project. Is that a deal?" I agree to the terms. I inform to put terms in writing and I can start as soon as IT gives me a virtual machine. The business manager says, "No problem, legal checked the contract and there is a clause stating if your former company is unable to perform a function which they agreed to do, we are able to outsource it to a third party and charge the company for it. I just need them to state they are unable to perform the API function, and we will bill them for your time." *TLDR;* The client is giving me a contract and billing my former company double my asking rate because the former company is unable to successfully execute a function by the deadline they agreed to in a contract.
Saw this one on Facebook: https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rn52k6/twas_the_night_before_my_resignation/
tl;dr:
Guy with FU money (henceforce GWFUM) is a key player in his organization, is the only person with his skills at the company, despite trying to get a backup. Saves his vacation days so he can take the holidays off. High-priority contract comes up in Dec, due by EOY. Client waits two weeks to send required information. GWFUM's boss tells GWFUM on Dec 21that the job must be done and that he (boss) has declined GWFUM's time off. On top of that, HR department stands firm that days off are use-it-or-lose-it.
GWFUM resigns.
Urgent Client is now facing hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines. GWFUM's now-former employer is facing $10k's of penalties per day for not fulfilling their contracts (not just with Urgent Client, but other existing clients). GWFUM enjoys his holidays with his family.
GWFUM's post with images of the conversation via text got deleted by reddit's moderators, but someone on Facebook captured it first, and you can see it here: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3113816372271449&set=pcb.3113816665604753
Entertaining, but impossible to believe
Saw this one on Facebook: https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rn52k6/twas_the_night_before_my_resignation/
tl;dr:
Guy with FU money (henceforce GWFUM) is a key player in his organization, is the only person with his skills at the company, despite trying to get a backup. Saves his vacation days so he can take the holidays off. High-priority contract comes up in Dec, due by EOY. Client waits two weeks to send required information. GWFUM's boss tells GWFUM on Dec 21that the job must be done and that he (boss) has declined GWFUM's time off. On top of that, HR department stands firm that days off are use-it-or-lose-it.
GWFUM resigns.
Urgent Client is now facing hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines. GWFUM's now-former employer is facing $10k's of penalties per day for not fulfilling their contracts (not just with Urgent Client, but other existing clients). GWFUM enjoys his holidays with his family.
GWFUM's post with images of the conversation via text got deleted by reddit's moderators, but someone on Facebook captured it first, and you can see it here: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3113816372271449&set=pcb.3113816665604753
Entertaining, but impossible to believe
Yeah, some tough ones in there. If they were ‘friends' for whatever number of years, and the situation was so dire, the texts make no sense, pounding on GWFUM's front door would be believable.
But I also hope it is true…
Saw this one on Facebook: https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rn52k6/twas_the_night_before_my_resignation/
tl;dr:
Guy with FU money (henceforce GWFUM) is a key player in his organization, is the only person with his skills at the company, despite trying to get a backup. Saves his vacation days so he can take the holidays off. High-priority contract comes up in Dec, due by EOY. Client waits two weeks to send required information. GWFUM's boss tells GWFUM on Dec 21that the job must be done and that he (boss) has declined GWFUM's time off. On top of that, HR department stands firm that days off are use-it-or-lose-it.
GWFUM resigns.
Urgent Client is now facing hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines. GWFUM's now-former employer is facing $10k's of penalties per day for not fulfilling their contracts (not just with Urgent Client, but other existing clients). GWFUM enjoys his holidays with his family.
GWFUM's post with images of the conversation via text got deleted by reddit's moderators, but someone on Facebook captured it first, and you can see it here: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3113816372271449&set=pcb.3113816665604753
Entertaining, but impossible to believe
Yeah, some tough ones in there. If they were ‘friends' for whatever number of years, and the situation was so dire, the texts make no sense, pounding on GWFUM's front door would be believable.
But I also hope it is true…
For some managers, 'friends' means "You did what I wanted and I didn't go out of my way to screw you over just for spite." And nothing more.
I've seen equally stupid and myopic and self-centered behavior from some managers before. AND even less rational all at the same time.
I suspect that company isn't going to be around much longer.
I suspect that company isn't going to be around much longer.
That Company doesn't deserve to be around if it did indeed allow only one person to know such crucial operational information..
Found the GWFUM posts in the Reddit archives. Posting here so y'all don't have to track to Zuck's Muck:Thanks for posting that, as the user's account has been deleted. I suspect some legal wranglings are in process...QuotePosted by iambeaker Submissions Comments at Thu, Dec 30, 2021 11:03 AM in antiwork
...There arose such a clatter, I sprang from my bed to see what was the matter.
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rs554s/there_arose_such_a_clatter_i_sprang_from_my_bed/
0 Comments
Apologies for the delay in response... I had a personal matter which needed urgent attention. [I appreciate awards, but please save lives instead. In memory of my friend, who used to take 2 hour lunches with me.](https://diabetes.org/) Again, I appreciate all the messages of support, offers of help, and the spirited debate. I understand both sides of the business and I welcome all feedback.
*Previously:*
**Part 1:** [Twas The Night Before My Resignation](https://reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rn52k6/twas_the_night_before_my_resignation/)
**Part 2:** [Not A Creature Was Stirring](https://reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rq0cmc/not_a_creature_was_stirring/) [Part 2 Text Conversation (Deleted due to Rule Violation)](https://imgur.com/a/UoGdpZI)
**Previously:** Manager notified me I would need to work the week between Christmas and New Year's Day despite me having the week off approved (July). This determination was made in part to a government contractor (the client) facing a fine due to noncompliance as a result of an audit. Requests for data needed to bring the client into compliance were ignored until days before Christmas. I chose family over company and resigned the Monday after Christmas. Starting the Monday after Christmas, the manager begins to use different types of manipulation techniques and smear campaigns to change my mind. The company's CEO helps strong arm the process. During this time, a different client sends a corrupted file, and the department processes the file, causing an entire branch of reports to go down. The company is bound by a uptime clause in the contract, causing panic within the company. For every hour the reports are unresponsive, the company is fined (per report). I offer various solutions to help the company mediate the solution, but the offers are rejected.
**Present Day:** Throughout the day, the manager and CEO send a barrage of texts and phone calls. One of my coworkers finds the documentation and fixes the reports. Later in the afternoon, he is served corrective action because he was accountable for processing the corrupted file and did not find the documentation faster. He tells me the manager, HR, and the CEO spent all night finding evidence to support the corrective action. I tell him to get his resume up to date. Total down time: 16 hours Around 3pm, I get a phone call from a new number. It was the client's business manager (the liaison between the former company and the client). I explained to her the delay of getting data until Christmas (despite multiple requests), the loss of a full week of PTO, the text messages/phone calls, and my offer to come back to help her company reach compliance. The business manager told me a different story. The manager and CEO called her earlier to inform her I quit and I am "stalling the project as ransom" in order to obtain more money. I explained how one could skew this view, but I am not actively seeking to return. After observing how the company treats their employees and after being treated post resignation, I have no interest in returning to the company. The business manager asks me what terms (rate, signing bonus, etc.) what I was seeking to return to my former company. She tells me she will call back in an hour and not respond to any more texts from the manager or CEO.
**CEO Text:** Did the business manager call you? Did she give you a piece of her mind?
**Manager Text:** I bet the business manager is going to make you personally pay for that fine! The business manager calls me back on a conference call and asks, "What do you need to finish this project? Software, data, tools, etc.?" I give her a list of everything I need. I answer other questions related to the project. She says, "Here's the plan. We are going to offer you a contract to finish this API for us by the end of the year for double the hourly rate you asked. If you can finish by 12/31, we will give you the signing bonus. After the New Year, we will see where we are staffing wise and maybe, we can find you a spot, but there is no guarantee, especially if you do not the project. Is that a deal?" I agree to the terms. I inform to put terms in writing and I can start as soon as IT gives me a virtual machine. The business manager says, "No problem, legal checked the contract and there is a clause stating if your former company is unable to perform a function which they agreed to do, we are able to outsource it to a third party and charge the company for it. I just need them to state they are unable to perform the API function, and we will bill them for your time."
*TLDR;* The client is giving me a contract and billing my former company double my asking rate because the former company is unable to successfully execute a function by the deadline they agreed to in a contract.
The text message screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/UoGdpZI
BTW: everything on Reddit gets archived, even if the post is deleted and the user is deleted.
I don't know if my situation is a FU money story or a MPP. (If y'all say MPP, I'll move it there.)
A couple of weeks ago, a cloud service provider (CSP) recruiter contacted me for a position. A relative works there. Had the 30 minute screening call (which was almost an hour) and it went well, which opened up a few different opportunities in different customer sectors due to my background and experience. I was to send my résumé to recruiter and they would let me know "as soon as possible". I asked them to clarify benefits, working hours, etc.
...
Wife and I have good pay, rental income from several condos, 2 homes (renovating one, then moving in, and selling the old one in this crazy RE market), and retirement/brokerage accounts. We aren't in need of more money (and more stress) at the expense of a balanced work/life routine. My wife is looking at changing jobs to a less stressful and lesser hours gig.
We have FU money, we are technically FI, in the 2 comma club. We're already talking about me going FIRE in 12 years, when I turn 55 (because my job and industry is fun, because the people are fun). Wife probably will be retiring earlier. And we'll downsize. All this is in the IPS/long-term plan.
I don't need or want the CSP gig.
Thanks FU Money.
I suspect that company isn't going to be around much longer.
That Company doesn't deserve to be around if it did indeed allow only one person to know such crucial operational information..
You might be surprised how often that scenario plays out in the tech world.
And they totally mismanaged getting out of the mess, too.
That was great. Thanks for sharing.
One of my favorite phone features is being able to block numbers. If any work college calls me after hours with something that isn't truly urgent they get blocked right away. I ended up blocking a couple of consultants and a director.
That was great. Thanks for sharing.
One of my favorite phone features is being able to block numbers. If any work college calls me after hours with something that isn't truly urgent they get blocked right away. I ended up blocking a couple of consultants and a director.
It's like when your phone is turned off, at least for me. You can always try with someone sitting next to you (don't forget to unblock them later).That was great. Thanks for sharing.
One of my favorite phone features is being able to block numbers. If any work college calls me after hours with something that isn't truly urgent they get blocked right away. I ended up blocking a couple of consultants and a director.
Do you know what happens when they try to call you again after you block them? Does it just ring and ring until they give up? Does it just not connect to anything? Or does it give them some msg about the number being unavailable?
I suspect that company isn't going to be around much longer.
That Company doesn't deserve to be around if it did indeed allow only one person to know such crucial operational information..
You might be surprised how often that scenario plays out in the tech world.
And they totally mismanaged getting out of the mess, too.
It's like when your phone is turned off, at least for me. You can always try with someone sitting next to you (don't forget to unblock them later).That was great. Thanks for sharing.
One of my favorite phone features is being able to block numbers. If any work college calls me after hours with something that isn't truly urgent they get blocked right away. I ended up blocking a couple of consultants and a director.
Do you know what happens when they try to call you again after you block them? Does it just ring and ring until they give up? Does it just not connect to anything? Or does it give them some msg about the number being unavailable?
Great feature for peace of mind.
On thé iPhone it is Do Not Disturb in the settings. You set the hours when you don’t want notifications and any call doesn’t vibrate or ring. It might go straight to voicemail; I’m not sure there. Only people on your Favorites list can get through. I think if the same number calls you three times in a row it will get through on the last try.
(is there a way to view deleted posts?)Example for this GWFUM:
Can you share more details about how your Executive Director reacted when she found out you gave notice? The story doesn't need it...I'm just a nosy Nellie!
I'd like to know as well.
Great job.
Thanks y’all!
She wasn’t used to people telling her no, so when I refused her kind offer of doing two jobs for the pay of one, she threatened me and left to go to a meeting with the other top brass in the organization. I emailed the other top brass my two weeks notice, so they got it while in that meeting (and I know HR was checking email) so the whole meeting got my message and my explanation of why I was leaving. This meant she had 100% turnover in a year. She came back and slammed her office door. She spent the next two weeks not speaking to me, and leaving me out of office activities. I kid you not, she called her administration assistant and my outgoing supervisor into an office and slammed the door in my face. I heard them giggling behind the door.
I documented everything, the anti-Catholic bigotry, the bullying, name-calling, vulgarity (she called other women cooters), the retaliation, and the overall office environment she created and encouraged (my supervisor was fond of screaming about Goddamn straight white men and there Goddamn penisis, but she was another nightmare altogether. Screaming at me in front of colleagues, public tantrums, insulting project manager’s projects, slamming things on her desk, and lying). Everyone on campus had a story about this woman and everyone knew how she got her first admin assistant fired (and then laughed when she heard the woman was driving Uber to make ends meet. I really can’t get over that). While I was documenting stuff, I also told all my fellow Catholics, and all the other religious minority colleagues, about her comments. Her job strongly relies on having good relationships with colleagues and the community. Several people stopped volunteering at her events. Partly because she was fond of screaming fits, partly because who wants to work with a bigot?
I have it on good authority that HR and the College President were not happy about her behavior and some disciplinary action was taken. She’s still working there. She said she hated it multiple times, but whenever she came into the deli where I worked she made a point to wear brand new Lily Pulitzer. And to be rude to other customers. Who are often very wealthy and influential people in the community.
And that’s why I left before I found a full time job.
Found the GWFUM posts in the Reddit archives. Posting here so y'all don't have to track to Zuck's Muck:QuotePosted by iambeaker Submissions Comments at Thu, Dec 30, 2021 11:03 AM in antiwork
...There arose such a clatter, I sprang from my bed to see what was the matter.
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rs554s/there_arose_such_a_clatter_i_sprang_from_my_bed/
0 Comments
Apologies for the delay in response... I had a personal matter which needed urgent attention. [I appreciate awards, but please save lives instead. In memory of my friend, who used to take 2 hour lunches with me.](https://diabetes.org/) Again, I appreciate all the messages of support, offers of help, and the spirited debate. I understand both sides of the business and I welcome all feedback. *Previously:* **Part 1:** [Twas The Night Before My Resignation](https://reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rn52k6/twas_the_night_before_my_resignation/) **Part 2:** [Not A Creature Was Stirring](https://reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rq0cmc/not_a_creature_was_stirring/) [Part 2 Text Conversation (Deleted due to Rule Violation)](https://imgur.com/a/UoGdpZI) **Previously:** Manager notified me I would need to work the week between Christmas and New Year's Day despite me having the week off approved (July). This determination was made in part to a government contractor (the client) facing a fine due to noncompliance as a result of an audit. Requests for data needed to bring the client into compliance were ignored until days before Christmas. I chose family over company and resigned the Monday after Christmas. Starting the Monday after Christmas, the manager begins to use different types of manipulation techniques and smear campaigns to change my mind. The company's CEO helps strong arm the process. During this time, a different client sends a corrupted file, and the department processes the file, causing an entire branch of reports to go down. The company is bound by a uptime clause in the contract, causing panic within the company. For every hour the reports are unresponsive, the company is fined (per report). I offer various solutions to help the company mediate the solution, but the offers are rejected. **Present Day:** Throughout the day, the manager and CEO send a barrage of texts and phone calls. One of my coworkers finds the documentation and fixes the reports. Later in the afternoon, he is served corrective action because he was accountable for processing the corrupted file and did not find the documentation faster. He tells me the manager, HR, and the CEO spent all night finding evidence to support the corrective action. I tell him to get his resume up to date. Total down time: 16 hours Around 3pm, I get a phone call from a new number. It was the client's business manager (the liaison between the former company and the client). I explained to her the delay of getting data until Christmas (despite multiple requests), the loss of a full week of PTO, the text messages/phone calls, and my offer to come back to help her company reach compliance. The business manager told me a different story. The manager and CEO called her earlier to inform her I quit and I am "stalling the project as ransom" in order to obtain more money. I explained how one could skew this view, but I am not actively seeking to return. After observing how the company treats their employees and after being treated post resignation, I have no interest in returning to the company. The business manager asks me what terms (rate, signing bonus, etc.) what I was seeking to return to my former company. She tells me she will call back in an hour and not respond to any more texts from the manager or CEO. **CEO Text:** Did the business manager call you? Did she give you a piece of her mind? **Manager Text:** I bet the business manager is going to make you personally pay for that fine! The business manager calls me back on a conference call and asks, "What do you need to finish this project? Software, data, tools, etc.?" I give her a list of everything I need. I answer other questions related to the project. She says, "Here's the plan. We are going to offer you a contract to finish this API for us by the end of the year for double the hourly rate you asked. If you can finish by 12/31, we will give you the signing bonus. After the New Year, we will see where we are staffing wise and maybe, we can find you a spot, but there is no guarantee, especially if you do not the project. Is that a deal?" I agree to the terms. I inform to put terms in writing and I can start as soon as IT gives me a virtual machine. The business manager says, "No problem, legal checked the contract and there is a clause stating if your former company is unable to perform a function which they agreed to do, we are able to outsource it to a third party and charge the company for it. I just need them to state they are unable to perform the API function, and we will bill them for your time." *TLDR;* The client is giving me a contract and billing my former company double my asking rate because the former company is unable to successfully execute a function by the deadline they agreed to in a contract.
The text message screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/UoGdpZI
BTW: everything on Reddit gets archived, even if the post is deleted and the user is deleted.
If this is real and not a work of fiction or at least embellished, it's a truly an Epic FU story. I have seen first hand how companies can come to rely on a single person for critical technical knowledge and I have also seen examples where management and/or HR can be incredibley arrogant and prideful. I can also easily see them absorbing those huge fines and unwilling to meet the employees demands, despite their situation. It's crazy how companies will pay a failure of a CEO millions to just leave, yet can't wrap their head around paying someone in the lower ranks the money he was asking of them.
If this is real and not a work of fiction or at least embellished, it's a truly an Epic FU story. I have seen first hand how companies can come to rely on a single person for critical technical knowledge and I have also seen examples where management and/or HR can be incredibley arrogant and prideful. I can also easily see them absorbing those huge fines and unwilling to meet the employees demands, despite their situation. It's crazy how companies will pay a failure of a CEO millions to just leave, yet can't wrap their head around paying someone in the lower ranks the money he was asking of them.
Or even treating them with basic human respect...
The clincher is writing up the programmer who did manage to make stuff work in order to cover their butts. How's that for completely demoralizing an entire department? No one's ever going to step up again while those two managers are in charge.
If this is real and not a work of fiction or at least embellished, it's a truly an Epic FU story. I have seen first hand how companies can come to rely on a single person for critical technical knowledge and I have also seen examples where management and/or HR can be incredibley arrogant and prideful. I can also easily see them absorbing those huge fines and unwilling to meet the employees demands, despite their situation. It's crazy how companies will pay a failure of a CEO millions to just leave, yet can't wrap their head around paying someone in the lower ranks the money he was asking of them.
Or even treating them with basic human respect...
The clincher is writing up the programmer who did manage to make stuff work in order to cover their butts. How's that for completely demoralizing an entire department? No one's ever going to step up again while those two managers are in charge.
Agreed. This is probably the most unbelievable part of the story.
If this is real and not a work of fiction or at least embellished, it's a truly an Epic FU story. I have seen first hand how companies can come to rely on a single person for critical technical knowledge and I have also seen examples where management and/or HR can be incredibley arrogant and prideful. I can also easily see them absorbing those huge fines and unwilling to meet the employees demands, despite their situation. It's crazy how companies will pay a failure of a CEO millions to just leave, yet can't wrap their head around paying someone in the lower ranks the money he was asking of them.
Or even treating them with basic human respect...
The clincher is writing up the programmer who did manage to make stuff work in order to cover their butts. How's that for completely demoralizing an entire department? No one's ever going to step up again while those two managers are in charge.
Agreed. This is probably the most unbelievable part of the story.
If this is real and not a work of fiction or at least embellished, it's a truly an Epic FU story. I have seen first hand how companies can come to rely on a single person for critical technical knowledge and I have also seen examples where management and/or HR can be incredibley arrogant and prideful. I can also easily see them absorbing those huge fines and unwilling to meet the employees demands, despite their situation. It's crazy how companies will pay a failure of a CEO millions to just leave, yet can't wrap their head around paying someone in the lower ranks the money he was asking of them.
Or even treating them with basic human respect...
The clincher is writing up the programmer who did manage to make stuff work in order to cover their butts. How's that for completely demoralizing an entire department? No one's ever going to step up again while those two managers are in charge.
Agreed. This is probably the most unbelievable part of the story.
Can you share more details about how your Executive Director reacted when she found out you gave notice? The story doesn't need it...I'm just a nosy Nellie!
I'd like to know as well.
Great job.
Thanks y’all!
She wasn’t used to people telling her no, so when I refused her kind offer of doing two jobs for the pay of one, she threatened me and left to go to a meeting with the other top brass in the organization. I emailed the other top brass my two weeks notice, so they got it while in that meeting (and I know HR was checking email) so the whole meeting got my message and my explanation of why I was leaving. This meant she had 100% turnover in a year. She came back and slammed her office door. She spent the next two weeks not speaking to me, and leaving me out of office activities. I kid you not, she called her administration assistant and my outgoing supervisor into an office and slammed the door in my face. I heard them giggling behind the door.
I documented everything, the anti-Catholic bigotry, the bullying, name-calling, vulgarity (she called other women cooters), the retaliation, and the overall office environment she created and encouraged (my supervisor was fond of screaming about Goddamn straight white men and there Goddamn penisis, but she was another nightmare altogether. Screaming at me in front of colleagues, public tantrums, insulting project manager’s projects, slamming things on her desk, and lying). Everyone on campus had a story about this woman and everyone knew how she got her first admin assistant fired (and then laughed when she heard the woman was driving Uber to make ends meet. I really can’t get over that). While I was documenting stuff, I also told all my fellow Catholics, and all the other religious minority colleagues, about her comments. Her job strongly relies on having good relationships with colleagues and the community. Several people stopped volunteering at her events. Partly because she was fond of screaming fits, partly because who wants to work with a bigot?
I have it on good authority that HR and the College President were not happy about her behavior and some disciplinary action was taken. She’s still working there. She said she hated it multiple times, but whenever she came into the deli where I worked she made a point to wear brand new Lily Pulitzer. And to be rude to other customers. Who are often very wealthy and influential people in the community.
And that’s why I left before I found a full time job.
Just an update on how things turned out.
I am now working full time at the library and have been since March of 2020. The pay isn't much, but my coworkers are kind and respectful, and I genuinely like them as people. My leadership is the same, and has taken every opportunity to be supportive. I produced a series of video recordings featuring leaders of different religions that was one of our most popular programs during 2020. I consider it a highlight of my career. I've since produced several book talks, my most recent one being on books about the Holy Land. I partnered with a Jewish coworker who had visited the Holy Land and could offer a second perspective. That turned out really well and I'm pretty proud of that project.
Like I said, the pay isn't much, so I got a housemate. This saved me more than $500 a month, which I tossed in my Roth IRA. I fully funded that last year. My housemate is a lovely human, and I'm really glad I got to know her better. She's getting married in Feb. and I'm invited to the wedding.
I started a side hustle offering writing/editing services. I love it, and it brings in some extra money. I'm hoping that when I am ready to move on, I'll be able to use that to segue into a higher paying job, perhaps in technical writing.
My savings/investments total over $120,000. I'm proud of that.
The ED I used to work for was recently managed out. I have to admit, it is cathartic to know someone realized her behavior was inappropriate and disgusting. I've spent years trying to forgive both of those women. It's an uphill battle.
glad to see this forum is meeting their women engineer quota.
I'm a male in IT/Tech/Engineering. When I hear stupid fake shit about women from a team lead/manager/leadership because of some make-believe stereotype, immediate red flag is raised, and I start looking for opportunities externally. Because this time it was women, next time it will about a minority, and it will go on. In my experience, HR does nothing, so time to bail. That FU Stash activation feels so good.
IF you feel that you're in a position to do so, it would be super-cool if you would push back on that shit.
Because it's far more effective when a bro says "seriously dude? The 1950s called, and they want their sexism back" then when a woman says ... anything, because that makes her a bitchy bitch.
My first full time engineering job in the mid-2000s, with the Engineering Ethics class from university still fresh in my mind, and having gone thru the various employer training, I called out a senior engineer during a meeting, as soon as he uttered ridiculous nonsense. He talked trash about 2 female engineers (who were my E-school classmates) and the Turkish change management lady. But the female CEO of that company didn't like my pushing back, and they never forgot. When we had layoffs, the 2 female engineers were fired in the first round and I got their work. A month later, they fired me for cause, for belittling a senior. IDGAF and had 6 months of emergency fund and had made local industry contacts.
Next workplace, my team lead and senior techs would call out others who said sexist and racist things, so I was part of a like-minded team. But our female manager wasn't a fan of our callouts as well as our refusal to put a blind eye on inspection fails and workplace safety violations. So our team got the least raises despite being critical to the company (no products could be certified without our department testing them for compliance and signing off). I was denied a promotion (had been verbally informed a month prior that I would be). Manager and her boss, a female director, openly said my minority was good at being frugal and thrifty, and said working with this company was a raise unto itself. HR didn't give a damn when I raised it, they said those were heat of the moment responses by management. I quit a couple of weeks later with a 30% more pay, a day after my 3 year stock vesting hit 100%.
It might seem super-cool to many when men stand up for women in the workplace, but we're the ones who get the shaft, financially and morally.
glad to see this forum is meeting their women engineer quota.
I'm a male in IT/Tech/Engineering. When I hear stupid fake shit about women from a team lead/manager/leadership because of some make-believe stereotype, immediate red flag is raised, and I start looking for opportunities externally. Because this time it was women, next time it will about a minority, and it will go on. In my experience, HR does nothing, so time to bail. That FU Stash activation feels so good.
IF you feel that you're in a position to do so, it would be super-cool if you would push back on that shit.
Because it's far more effective when a bro says "seriously dude? The 1950s called, and they want their sexism back" then when a woman says ... anything, because that makes her a bitchy bitch.
My first full time engineering job in the mid-2000s, with the Engineering Ethics class from university still fresh in my mind, and having gone thru the various employer training, I called out a senior engineer during a meeting, as soon as he uttered ridiculous nonsense. He talked trash about 2 female engineers (who were my E-school classmates) and the Turkish change management lady. But the female CEO of that company didn't like my pushing back, and they never forgot. When we had layoffs, the 2 female engineers were fired in the first round and I got their work. A month later, they fired me for cause, for belittling a senior. IDGAF and had 6 months of emergency fund and had made local industry contacts.
Next workplace, my team lead and senior techs would call out others who said sexist and racist things, so I was part of a like-minded team. But our female manager wasn't a fan of our callouts as well as our refusal to put a blind eye on inspection fails and workplace safety violations. So our team got the least raises despite being critical to the company (no products could be certified without our department testing them for compliance and signing off). I was denied a promotion (had been verbally informed a month prior that I would be). Manager and her boss, a female director, openly said my minority was good at being frugal and thrifty, and said working with this company was a raise unto itself. HR didn't give a damn when I raised it, they said those were heat of the moment responses by management. I quit a couple of weeks later with a 30% more pay, a day after my 3 year stock vesting hit 100%.
It might seem super-cool to many when men stand up for women in the workplace, but we're the ones who get the shaft, financially and morally.
HR is not there to help the normal employees. Only to look after the company and it's managers.
Never take anything up with HR, it is a loosing battle most times.
HR works for the company. Also, it's right there in the title, how to turn Humans into Resources. If you have a legitimate legal issue, they might help, because they don't want to expose the company to liability.
glad to see this forum is meeting their women engineer quota.
I'm a male in IT/Tech/Engineering. When I hear stupid fake shit about women from a team lead/manager/leadership because of some make-believe stereotype, immediate red flag is raised, and I start looking for opportunities externally. Because this time it was women, next time it will about a minority, and it will go on. In my experience, HR does nothing, so time to bail. That FU Stash activation feels so good.
IF you feel that you're in a position to do so, it would be super-cool if you would push back on that shit.
Because it's far more effective when a bro says "seriously dude? The 1950s called, and they want their sexism back" then when a woman says ... anything, because that makes her a bitchy bitch.
My first full time engineering job in the mid-2000s, with the Engineering Ethics class from university still fresh in my mind, and having gone thru the various employer training, I called out a senior engineer during a meeting, as soon as he uttered ridiculous nonsense. He talked trash about 2 female engineers (who were my E-school classmates) and the Turkish change management lady. But the female CEO of that company didn't like my pushing back, and they never forgot. When we had layoffs, the 2 female engineers were fired in the first round and I got their work. A month later, they fired me for cause, for belittling a senior. IDGAF and had 6 months of emergency fund and had made local industry contacts.
Next workplace, my team lead and senior techs would call out others who said sexist and racist things, so I was part of a like-minded team. But our female manager wasn't a fan of our callouts as well as our refusal to put a blind eye on inspection fails and workplace safety violations. So our team got the least raises despite being critical to the company (no products could be certified without our department testing them for compliance and signing off). I was denied a promotion (had been verbally informed a month prior that I would be). Manager and her boss, a female director, openly said my minority was good at being frugal and thrifty, and said working with this company was a raise unto itself. HR didn't give a damn when I raised it, they said those were heat of the moment responses by management. I quit a couple of weeks later with a 30% more pay, a day after my 3 year stock vesting hit 100%.
It might seem super-cool to many when men stand up for women in the workplace, but we're the ones who get the shaft, financially and morally.
HR is not there to help the normal employees. Only to look after the company and it's managers.
Never take anything up with HR, it is a loosing battle most times.
HR works for the company. Also, it's right there in the title, how to turn Humans into Resources. If you have a legitimate legal issue, they might help, because they don't want to expose the company to liability.
glad to see this forum is meeting their women engineer quota.
I'm a male in IT/Tech/Engineering. When I hear stupid fake shit about women from a team lead/manager/leadership because of some make-believe stereotype, immediate red flag is raised, and I start looking for opportunities externally. Because this time it was women, next time it will about a minority, and it will go on. In my experience, HR does nothing, so time to bail. That FU Stash activation feels so good.
IF you feel that you're in a position to do so, it would be super-cool if you would push back on that shit.
Because it's far more effective when a bro says "seriously dude? The 1950s called, and they want their sexism back" then when a woman says ... anything, because that makes her a bitchy bitch.
My first full time engineering job in the mid-2000s, with the Engineering Ethics class from university still fresh in my mind, and having gone thru the various employer training, I called out a senior engineer during a meeting, as soon as he uttered ridiculous nonsense. He talked trash about 2 female engineers (who were my E-school classmates) and the Turkish change management lady. But the female CEO of that company didn't like my pushing back, and they never forgot. When we had layoffs, the 2 female engineers were fired in the first round and I got their work. A month later, they fired me for cause, for belittling a senior. IDGAF and had 6 months of emergency fund and had made local industry contacts.
Next workplace, my team lead and senior techs would call out others who said sexist and racist things, so I was part of a like-minded team. But our female manager wasn't a fan of our callouts as well as our refusal to put a blind eye on inspection fails and workplace safety violations. So our team got the least raises despite being critical to the company (no products could be certified without our department testing them for compliance and signing off). I was denied a promotion (had been verbally informed a month prior that I would be). Manager and her boss, a female director, openly said my minority was good at being frugal and thrifty, and said working with this company was a raise unto itself. HR didn't give a damn when I raised it, they said those were heat of the moment responses by management. I quit a couple of weeks later with a 30% more pay, a day after my 3 year stock vesting hit 100%.
It might seem super-cool to many when men stand up for women in the workplace, but we're the ones who get the shaft, financially and morally.
HR is not there to help the normal employees. Only to look after the company and it's managers.
Never take anything up with HR, it is a loosing battle most times.
HR works for the company. Also, it's right there in the title, how to turn Humans into Resources. If you have a legitimate legal issue, they might help, because they don't want to expose the company to liability.
This is an important point. It's also important to understand HR are people, too. If they're HR in a situation with multi-hundreds of people to manage like a factory setting, they've likely dealt with untold ridiculousness of situations and deal with complaints all the time. I know I'd probably become pretty cynical if I had to deal with what they have to deal with. I've found if you're nice to them and reasonable the good ones can be helpful.....but as you say, they're first loyalty is always the company.
glad to see this forum is meeting their women engineer quota.
I'm a male in IT/Tech/Engineering. When I hear stupid fake shit about women from a team lead/manager/leadership because of some make-believe stereotype, immediate red flag is raised, and I start looking for opportunities externally. Because this time it was women, next time it will about a minority, and it will go on. In my experience, HR does nothing, so time to bail. That FU Stash activation feels so good.
IF you feel that you're in a position to do so, it would be super-cool if you would push back on that shit.
Because it's far more effective when a bro says "seriously dude? The 1950s called, and they want their sexism back" then when a woman says ... anything, because that makes her a bitchy bitch.
My first full time engineering job in the mid-2000s, with the Engineering Ethics class from university still fresh in my mind, and having gone thru the various employer training, I called out a senior engineer during a meeting, as soon as he uttered ridiculous nonsense. He talked trash about 2 female engineers (who were my E-school classmates) and the Turkish change management lady. But the female CEO of that company didn't like my pushing back, and they never forgot. When we had layoffs, the 2 female engineers were fired in the first round and I got their work. A month later, they fired me for cause, for belittling a senior. IDGAF and had 6 months of emergency fund and had made local industry contacts.
Next workplace, my team lead and senior techs would call out others who said sexist and racist things, so I was part of a like-minded team. But our female manager wasn't a fan of our callouts as well as our refusal to put a blind eye on inspection fails and workplace safety violations. So our team got the least raises despite being critical to the company (no products could be certified without our department testing them for compliance and signing off). I was denied a promotion (had been verbally informed a month prior that I would be). Manager and her boss, a female director, openly said my minority was good at being frugal and thrifty, and said working with this company was a raise unto itself. HR didn't give a damn when I raised it, they said those were heat of the moment responses by management. I quit a couple of weeks later with a 30% more pay, a day after my 3 year stock vesting hit 100%.
It might seem super-cool to many when men stand up for women in the workplace, but we're the ones who get the shaft, financially and morally.
HR is not there to help the normal employees. Only to look after the company and it's managers.
Never take anything up with HR, it is a loosing battle most times.
HR works for the company. Also, it's right there in the title, how to turn Humans into Resources. If you have a legitimate legal issue, they might help, because they don't want to expose the company to liability.
This is an important point. It's also important to understand HR are people, too. If they're HR in a situation with multi-hundreds of people to manage like a factory setting, they've likely dealt with untold ridiculousness of situations and deal with complaints all the time. I know I'd probably become pretty cynical if I had to deal with what they have to deal with. I've found if you're nice to them and reasonable the good ones can be helpful.....but as you say, they're first loyalty is always the company.
Just like all things in life, this is generally true, but there are exceptions. I have found HR to be very pro-employee in some specific settings. In one example I was a manager and HR recommended some specific actions for our employee to take that allowed him to access a death benefit (employee was terminally ill). It was their suggestion for the employee take the actions that got them the benefit - and if they only looked out for the company they could have not said anything. The company self-insured those kinds of payments - so it did come out of company funds.
Honestly, this is one of the moments I will cherish the most in my career. The family sent me a thank you letter for helping them.
glad to see this forum is meeting their women engineer quota.
I'm a male in IT/Tech/Engineering. When I hear stupid fake shit about women from a team lead/manager/leadership because of some make-believe stereotype, immediate red flag is raised, and I start looking for opportunities externally. Because this time it was women, next time it will about a minority, and it will go on. In my experience, HR does nothing, so time to bail. That FU Stash activation feels so good.
IF you feel that you're in a position to do so, it would be super-cool if you would push back on that shit.
Because it's far more effective when a bro says "seriously dude? The 1950s called, and they want their sexism back" then when a woman says ... anything, because that makes her a bitchy bitch.
My first full time engineering job in the mid-2000s, with the Engineering Ethics class from university still fresh in my mind, and having gone thru the various employer training, I called out a senior engineer during a meeting, as soon as he uttered ridiculous nonsense. He talked trash about 2 female engineers (who were my E-school classmates) and the Turkish change management lady. But the female CEO of that company didn't like my pushing back, and they never forgot. When we had layoffs, the 2 female engineers were fired in the first round and I got their work. A month later, they fired me for cause, for belittling a senior. IDGAF and had 6 months of emergency fund and had made local industry contacts.
Next workplace, my team lead and senior techs would call out others who said sexist and racist things, so I was part of a like-minded team. But our female manager wasn't a fan of our callouts as well as our refusal to put a blind eye on inspection fails and workplace safety violations. So our team got the least raises despite being critical to the company (no products could be certified without our department testing them for compliance and signing off). I was denied a promotion (had been verbally informed a month prior that I would be). Manager and her boss, a female director, openly said my minority was good at being frugal and thrifty, and said working with this company was a raise unto itself. HR didn't give a damn when I raised it, they said those were heat of the moment responses by management. I quit a couple of weeks later with a 30% more pay, a day after my 3 year stock vesting hit 100%.
It might seem super-cool to many when men stand up for women in the workplace, but we're the ones who get the shaft, financially and morally.
HR is not there to help the normal employees. Only to look after the company and it's managers.
Never take anything up with HR, it is a loosing battle most times.
HR works for the company. Also, it's right there in the title, how to turn Humans into Resources. If you have a legitimate legal issue, they might help, because they don't want to expose the company to liability.
This is an important point. It's also important to understand HR are people, too. If they're HR in a situation with multi-hundreds of people to manage like a factory setting, they've likely dealt with untold ridiculousness of situations and deal with complaints all the time. I know I'd probably become pretty cynical if I had to deal with what they have to deal with. I've found if you're nice to them and reasonable the good ones can be helpful.....but as you say, they're first loyalty is always the company.
Just like all things in life, this is generally true, but there are exceptions. I have found HR to be very pro-employee in some specific settings. In one example I was a manager and HR recommended some specific actions for our employee to take that allowed him to access a death benefit (employee was terminally ill). It was their suggestion for the employee take the actions that got them the benefit - and if they only looked out for the company they could have not said anything. The company self-insured those kinds of payments - so it did come out of company funds.
Honestly, this is one of the moments I will cherish the most in my career. The family sent me a thank you letter for helping them.
Great story and you're right, I shouldn't have said always. Corporate America tends to corrupt even the best ones - leading to the crux of threads like this, and the higher you go in it, the less likely you are to retain your conscious. However, there are always those welcome exceptions who exemplify positive virtues even in the midst of it all.
(According to the pre-merger lifers, the company went to the dogs bollocks when Allied Signal purchased Honeywell and kept the H name since Allied Signal had a terrible name.)
(According to the pre-merger lifers, the company went to the dogs bollocks when Allied Signal purchased Honeywell and kept the H name since Allied Signal had a terrible name.)
Do you mean "went to the dogs" i.e. got much worse or "became the dogs bollocks" i.e. became the best?
I guess you mean got worse.
Hello, ringing in as an HR worker here. There are 3 of us in my particular HR (couple hundred employees), and I am always, always in favor of the employee, unless they are being particularly dickish, or the sort who is always taking advantage of every little thing (and therefore not worth me utilizing my limited goodwill for). Despite being just a peon, on several occasions I have spoken up and gotten policy changed in favor of a person or large group. However, I have a boss, and she is a little more old school ('be glad you have a job and don't complain about your benefits'), so sometimes I lose the battle. Anyway, I just say that to say that like anything, it's all over the place and depends on the company and the individuals and also sometimes like, whether they had coffee that morning (which is not right of course, but they are only human). Be nice to your HR peeps - it could help you out!We had a fantastic HR director at one point. Yeah, they are always for the company, but this one director convinced the company to pay me my full salary while out on mat leave. It had never happened before, and hasn't happened since because she left.
When my wife was expecting our first, one of the supervisors took me aside and told me the story of how he'd given a seminar in Indiana on the day his daughter was born (this was at an academic institution)....and hopefully finished with "and that was the worst mistake of my life". But somehow I'm assuming my hope is in vain.
When my wife was expecting our first, one of the supervisors took me aside and told me the story of how he'd given a seminar in Indiana on the day his daughter was born (this was at an academic institution).
When my wife was expecting our first, one of the supervisors took me aside and told me the story of how he'd given a seminar in Indiana on the day his daughter was born (this was at an academic institution)....and hopefully finished with "and that was the worst mistake of my life". But somehow I'm assuming my hope is in vain.
(Although I first read that as India rather than Indiana, which made it sound even worse, but I guess it might as well have been India from the point of view of his wife.)
When my wife was expecting our first, one of the supervisors took me aside and told me the story of how he'd given a seminar in Indiana on the day his daughter was born (this was at an academic institution)....and hopefully finished with "and that was the worst mistake of my life". But somehow I'm assuming my hope is in vain.
(Although I first read that as India rather than Indiana, which made it sound even worse, but I guess it might as well have been India from the point of view of his wife.)
At least India would have been interesting. Imagine missing out on the birth of your child for $#@! Indiana. That's just sad.
Comedy gold!When my wife was expecting our first, one of the supervisors took me aside and told me the story of how he'd given a seminar in Indiana on the day his daughter was born (this was at an academic institution).
“I bet there is a non-zero chance you fail a paternity test”
When my wife was expecting our first, one of the supervisors took me aside and told me the story of how he'd given a seminar in Indiana on the day his daughter was born (this was at an academic institution).
Many academics work pretty hard. What was your field?
Support staff got overtime or equivalent time off, and some were pretty vocal about their better deal. ;-/
Some minor back story for me: My parents got foreclosed on 5 years ago, and I let them move into my house for far below fair market value (about $400-500 below FMV, I just asked them to reimburse me for the mortgage/taxes/insurance). They lived there for 5 years and did not take care of the place. I finally asked them to leave because I wanted to sell it, and they got all pissed off and it's caused a huge rift in the family. Things are not good between me and them still. They got all huffy and moved out within a couple weeks and left the place in total disarray. I don't think they cleaned anything the whole time they were there. So for the past month I've been cleaning it up and fixing things up (up to about $14K so far plus a couple hundred hours between me/wife/her family). Also we are about 7 months pregnant after a long battle with infertility and going through IVF (and saving up for IVF because we ended up spending about $40k all said and done). There have been some other major life stresses that I don't even need to go into now. Suffice to say my life has been shitty and one big ball of stress for several months now.
So I come into work last week and SURPRISE the company you've worked at for 11 years has been sold! And those raises we promised...how about a pay cut instead?
They calculated my pay rate by excluding the bonus I get (about 15% of my total compensation) to get my "base pay", and then basically giving me that. They also don't cover nearly as much of the insurance premiums as my previous employer. The end result is that I previously paid about $1500/yr total for insurance for me and my wife, and now the insurance is switching over at 7 months pregnancy and the my new "family" premiums are going to be over $10k/yr. I expected a slight jump in insurance when we added a kid, but they've totally changed the rules of the game just before the birth, without ever giving me a heads up, and it's going to affect me about $8k/yr.
I told them the offer was bullshit and that I'm confident I can go find an engineering job paying more than that immediately. They want me to start off at the bottom and prove myself, even though I have 11 years experience and played a large part in building the company to the level it was at. I also have plenty of money socked away and could live for a couple years with no job if necessary. So I told them all to stuff it and cleaned out my desk and walked out.
Apparently that got their attention, and after a week of tense back and forth negotiation I now have a new contract. With this new contract I get:
$13k/yr more salary
Large performance based bonus (estimated $10-15k/yr)
performance review/raise halfway between now and the next normal scheduled review
3 weeks paid paternity leave
"unlimited"* vacation
2 employees under me
I've been promised I don't have to do shitty field work anymore, and can just do office work if I want.
Everyone else in the office is stuck and had no real option but to sign their new contract so they can keep getting a paycheck. I was the lone hold out. The change didn't affect anyone else nearly as much as it affected me. It pretty much worked out to equal compensation for everyone, except 2 of us senior guys, and it affected me much more harshly than the other guy. All in all though I think it ended up working out in my favor, and should actually decrease my time to FIRE by a couple years or more.
*unlimited in the sense that it's only limited by my ability to get my job done. Not truly unlimited, but I won't hit a point where they say "no you can't take that day off because you already took 14 days off!". I'm skeptical how it's all going to work out.
*unlimited in the sense that it's only limited by my ability to get my job done. Not truly unlimited, but I won't hit a point where they say "no you can't take that day off because you already took 14 days off!". I'm skeptical how it's all going to work out.
Make sure you make a record of how many days minimum you think is fair to take and actually take them. It is so easy as a lower level manager & previous independent contributor with a performance bonus to keep on putting off using the vacation days, and you end up not taking them (and then not getting them paid back when you leave because that is part of the 'unlimited' tradeoff).
They seem pretty anal about everyone keeping track of jobs and projects and billable hours. Part of the reason they gave me a raise and kept me is because they need me. No one else in the organization can do exactly what I do, how I do it. I'm critical to keeping this company running, at least in the short term. I know I'm not truly irreplaceable, but I know they can't go hire someone and get them up to my level any time soon, and probably not for what they are paying me either, so for the next year at least they absolutely need me. That's all great when I'm negotiating for a raise, but now a couple weeks in when I want to start using my "unlimited" vacation time...well fuck, we have a couple complicated reports that are due this week and no one else is capable of getting them done. This is the exact reason they need me around, so it's not like I can just go on vacation for the rest of the week.
It would be really satisfying to basically rebuild the same company with the same clients, and ultimately sell it back to the same parent company so they can come in and fuck it all up again.
Support staff got overtime or equivalent time off, and some were pretty vocal about their better deal. ;-/
I remember the day the professors in our department realized the departmental secretary had a yacht.
It would be really satisfying to basically rebuild the same company with the same clients, and ultimately sell it back to the same parent company so they can come in and fuck it all up again.
This would be the ultimate "Fuck You" if you were able to FIRE on that sale.
It would be really satisfying to basically rebuild the same company with the same clients, and ultimately sell it back to the same parent company so they can come in and fuck it all up again.
This would be the ultimate "Fuck You" if you were able to FIRE on that sale.
That bitch of an office manager refused (even though the envelopes were on site), and weakly grinned that I simply needed to admit to Ann what I had done when handing over the paycheck.
That bitch of an office manager refused (even though the envelopes were on site), and weakly grinned that I simply needed to admit to Ann what I had done when handing over the paycheck.
I'm very glad you like who you grew up to be and wouldn't tolerate being pushed around like this now.
I especially disliked from your story how it was apparently framed as a horrible thing YOU did. I mean, taking the paycheck that your manager hand-delivered to your desk and opening it under the assumption that they would have handed you the correct one? How dare you!
I was such a people pleaser. I am glad I grew out of it.
I can't imagine what she would have said if I did leave the open envelope with her- "Nancy opened it!" would just breed questions about why the actual fuck it was given to Nancy in the first place. I am sure a new envelope would have been found instantly before that manager delivered the check and she would not have complained to my boss about my refusal to deliver or my accidental opening of it because again the finger is pointed back at her. What the hell was I thinking. Nothing would be easier than going toe-to-toe with her and I crumbled.
Regrets, I have few.
That bitch of an office manager refused (even though the envelopes were on site), and weakly grinned that I simply needed to admit to Ann what I had done when handing over the paycheck.
I'm very glad you like who you grew up to be and wouldn't tolerate being pushed around like this now.
I especially disliked from your story how it was apparently framed as a horrible thing YOU did. I mean, taking the paycheck that your manager hand-delivered to your desk and opening it under the assumption that they would have handed you the correct one? How dare you!
"I like who I grew up to be" is one of the best measures of success I've ever seen.
That bitch of an office manager refused (even though the envelopes were on site), and weakly grinned that I simply needed to admit to Ann what I had done when handing over the paycheck.
I'm very glad you like who you grew up to be and wouldn't tolerate being pushed around like this now.
I especially disliked from your story how it was apparently framed as a horrible thing YOU did. I mean, taking the paycheck that your manager hand-delivered to your desk and opening it under the assumption that they would have handed you the correct one? How dare you!
"I like who I grew up to be" is one of the best measures of success I've ever seen.
...and one of the best mentally healthy statements.
That bitch of an office manager refused (even though the envelopes were on site), and weakly grinned that I simply needed to admit to Ann what I had done when handing over the paycheck.
I'm very glad you like who you grew up to be and wouldn't tolerate being pushed around like this now.
I especially disliked from your story how it was apparently framed as a horrible thing YOU did. I mean, taking the paycheck that your manager hand-delivered to your desk and opening it under the assumption that they would have handed you the correct one? How dare you!
"I like who I grew up to be" is one of the best measures of success I've ever seen.
...and one of the best mentally healthy statements.
The most interesting thing for me is that knowing the amount of someone else is negative. Why?
Right at that time the office manager took another swing around and handed me mine. She said that since I was going to the warehouse I would be dropping off Ann's to her, and she walked away quickly before I could muster the nerve to say I just opened the confidential pay statement of Ann.
After a few minutes I went to the manager's office and told her what happened and asked for a new envelope for Ann's statement so she would not feel embarrassed that someone had inadvertently opened it. That bitch of an office manager refused (even though the envelopes were on site), and weakly grinned that I simply needed to admit to Ann what I had done when handing over the paycheck. I ....... did. Ann was not pleased, of course. We were both mortified.
The most interesting thing for me is that knowing the amount of someone else is negative. Why?
Right at that time the office manager took another swing around and handed me mine. She said that since I was going to the warehouse I would be dropping off Ann's to her, and she walked away quickly before I could muster the nerve to say I just opened the confidential pay statement of Ann.
After a few minutes I went to the manager's office and told her what happened and asked for a new envelope for Ann's statement so she would not feel embarrassed that someone had inadvertently opened it. That bitch of an office manager refused (even though the envelopes were on site), and weakly grinned that I simply needed to admit to Ann what I had done when handing over the paycheck. I ....... did. Ann was not pleased, of course. We were both mortified.
The most interesting thing for me is that knowing the amount of someone else is negative. Why?
Right at that time the office manager took another swing around and handed me mine. She said that since I was going to the warehouse I would be dropping off Ann's to her, and she walked away quickly before I could muster the nerve to say I just opened the confidential pay statement of Ann.
After a few minutes I went to the manager's office and told her what happened and asked for a new envelope for Ann's statement so she would not feel embarrassed that someone had inadvertently opened it. That bitch of an office manager refused (even though the envelopes were on site), and weakly grinned that I simply needed to admit to Ann what I had done when handing over the paycheck. I ....... did. Ann was not pleased, of course. We were both mortified.
Because now the other person assumes that you know how much they make, and they do not know how much you make. They may assume you feel superior because you make more, or angry because you make less. Either way, it's something they would rather keep private.
I worked at a company 25 years ago that was subject to something called Schedule G by the IRS. Someone realized that said schedule meant that the salary of anyone who made > $50k/yr was considered public information. That spreadsheet flew around the office at the speed of light. I was making $11k more than my immediate supervisor...I'm sure that went down well!
So I was split between these departments and the bigger boss (boss's boss) decided I was doing such an outstanding job in the 60% mission critical role that he called me out of the blue and gave me a gigantic, out of cycle raise because he was worried that I might leave. I think it was really an equity bump to match my salary to others in that department, but it doesn't really matter why I got this huge raise unexpectedly, obviously I was happy to make more money. This was in early 2010 when companies were still recovering from the 2008 downturn, and I had been hired in 2009 at relatively lower pay because I needed to leave another position and basically was taking what I could get in order to keep working, because I like my work for the most part. When the manager of the 40% side found out, she started acting really nasty to me. After a couple of weeks she point blank told me "you shouldn't be making more than I am. Period."
The most interesting thing for me is that knowing the amount of someone else is negative. Why?
Right at that time the office manager took another swing around and handed me mine. She said that since I was going to the warehouse I would be dropping off Ann's to her, and she walked away quickly before I could muster the nerve to say I just opened the confidential pay statement of Ann.
After a few minutes I went to the manager's office and told her what happened and asked for a new envelope for Ann's statement so she would not feel embarrassed that someone had inadvertently opened it. That bitch of an office manager refused (even though the envelopes were on site), and weakly grinned that I simply needed to admit to Ann what I had done when handing over the paycheck. I ....... did. Ann was not pleased, of course. We were both mortified.
^^The weird part about it all was that she had a super easy job. She had all very motivated professionals in the group doing above and beyond everything that needed to be done. All she had to do was smile, turn in personnel reviews once a year, and take credit for her productive team, and she could have stayed in the job forever making a LOT of money for someone with her credentials. Basically it's a necessary function that no one really cares about, and it's not a gateway to other higher management roles. So just kick back and collect your above average paycheck while your employees get it all done perfectly, and don't make waves? Instead, she whined and connived and feuded with others and ended up losing her job.
^^The weird part about it all was that she had a super easy job. She had all very motivated professionals in the group doing above and beyond everything that needed to be done. All she had to do was smile, turn in personnel reviews once a year, and take credit for her productive team, and she could have stayed in the job forever making a LOT of money for someone with her credentials. Basically it's a necessary function that no one really cares about, and it's not a gateway to other higher management roles. So just kick back and collect your above average paycheck while your employees get it all done perfectly, and don't make waves? Instead, she whined and connived and feuded with others and ended up losing her job.
Hater's gotta hate. Whiners gotta whine. And backstabbing liars gotta backstab and lie.
People are who they are until they're motivated to change for the better or worse.
something something the frog and the scorpion something something.Very apt!
^^The weird part about it all was that she had a super easy job. She had all very motivated professionals in the group doing above and beyond everything that needed to be done. All she had to do was smile, turn in personnel reviews once a year, and take credit for her productive team,
^^The weird part about it all was that she had a super easy job. She had all very motivated professionals in the group doing above and beyond everything that needed to be done. All she had to do was smile, turn in personnel reviews once a year, and take credit for her productive team, and she could have stayed in the job forever making a LOT of money for someone with her credentials. Basically it's a necessary function that no one really cares about, and it's not a gateway to other higher management roles. So just kick back and collect your above average paycheck while your employees get it all done perfectly, and don't make waves? Instead, she whined and connived and feuded with others and ended up losing her job.
I deleted the draft email and shifted to planning for retirement.
"FU" would be stronger language than I'd use to characterize the way I left my last job. But, leaving was still satisfying.Adding another hearty congratulations to the pile!
This past fall the institution's president and provost decided to force all faculty to teach on campus this spring. It was announced very shortly before spring schedules were finalized, when the fall semester was already underway. Even the small number of us who, for personal or medical reasons, had been teaching fully online even before the pandemic were told to hurry up and submit paperwork to have leave approved either under the state or federal family leave act, as otherwise we would be teaching on campus in the spring. The timeline for that was short, by that point, and it would have been a challenge to get the appointments needed completed in time, along with the paperwork. All this took place while the delta variant was on the rise.
The dean for our school didn't push back against the rushed way this was handled or against the shift to doing the bare legal minimum vis a vis allowing faculty to teach fully online when dealing with challenging circumstances.
I warned the head of our unit that working was a voluntary act on my part and that I could leave whenever I chose (we've been financially ready for retirement for a few years now). I wrote a draft email intended for the provost and president outlining why the changes were unnecessarily rushed and in the longer run counterproductive. Then I realized that I was trying to do the dean's job for him, given that it's his job to protect the school, and not mine. I deleted the draft email and shifted to planning for retirement. My paperwork has been submitted and I will not be teaching this spring semester.
Being retired feels awesome.
"FU" would be stronger language than I'd use to characterize the way I left my last job. But, leaving was still satisfying.
This past fall the institution's president and provost decided to force all faculty to teach on campus this spring. It was announced very shortly before spring schedules were finalized, when the fall semester was already underway. Even the small number of us who, for personal or medical reasons, had been teaching fully online even before the pandemic were told to hurry up and submit paperwork to have leave approved either under the state or federal family leave act, as otherwise we would be teaching on campus in the spring. The timeline for that was short, by that point, and it would have been a challenge to get the appointments needed completed in time, along with the paperwork. All this took place while the delta variant was on the rise.
The dean for our school didn't push back against the rushed way this was handled or against the shift to doing the bare legal minimum vis a vis allowing faculty to teach fully online when dealing with challenging circumstances.
I warned the head of our unit that working was a voluntary act on my part and that I could leave whenever I chose (we've been financially ready for retirement for a few years now). I wrote a draft email intended for the provost and president outlining why the changes were unnecessarily rushed and in the longer run counterproductive. Then I realized that I was trying to do the dean's job for him, given that it's his job to protect the school, and not mine. I deleted the draft email and shifted to planning for retirement. My paperwork has been submitted and I will not be teaching this spring semester.
Being retired feels awesome.
...No, that's not me.
Is this you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrOzY86YcEM
I assume not, but I couldn't help but think of that video when I read your post. Congratulations on your retirement!
Well done, EnjoyTheJourney!My former dean used to be a professor and he empathized relatively well with faculty. He would also push back at times to protect the school's faculty from interference from above. Unfortunately, in the last few years he seems to have pretty much turned into an administrative bobblehead.
Deans are basically bobbleheads. It's sad.
And you made the right call! My own little college has had almost 1800 students with positive COVID results already this Spring, while state college down the road has over 3500. Teaching in person is turning out to be a pain when a half dozen students in each class are quarantined every week. All absent students now have the expectation that everything, including lecture videos and all opportunities for class participation, will also be online. So we are all teaching on demand hybrid courses. Fun times!
"FU" would be stronger language than I'd use to characterize the way I left my last job. But, leaving was still satisfying.
This past fall the institution's president and provost decided to force all faculty to teach on campus this spring. It was announced very shortly before spring schedules were finalized, when the fall semester was already underway. Even the small number of us who, for personal or medical reasons, had been teaching fully online even before the pandemic were told to hurry up and submit paperwork to have leave approved either under the state or federal family leave act, as otherwise we would be teaching on campus in the spring. The timeline for that was short, by that point, and it would have been a challenge to get the appointments needed completed in time, along with the paperwork. All this took place while the delta variant was on the rise.
The dean for our school didn't push back against the rushed way this was handled or against the shift to doing the bare legal minimum vis a vis allowing faculty to teach fully online when dealing with challenging circumstances.
I warned the head of our unit that working was a voluntary act on my part and that I could leave whenever I chose (we've been financially ready for retirement for a few years now). I wrote a draft email intended for the provost and president outlining why the changes were unnecessarily rushed and in the longer run counterproductive. Then I realized that I was trying to do the dean's job for him, given that it's his job to protect the school, and not mine. I deleted the draft email and shifted to planning for retirement. My paperwork has been submitted and I will not be teaching this spring semester.
Being retired feels awesome.
Is this you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrOzY86YcEM
I assume not, but I couldn't help but think of that video when I read your post. Congratulations on your retirement!
I don't know if my situation is a FU money story or a MPP. (If y'all say MPP, I'll move it there.)
A couple of weeks ago, a cloud service provider (CSP) recruiter contacted me for a position. A relative works there. Had the 30 minute screening call (which was almost an hour) and it went well, which opened up a few different opportunities in different customer sectors due to my background and experience. I was to send my résumé to recruiter and they would let me know "as soon as possible". I asked them to clarify benefits, working hours, etc.
However, this was just before the holidays, so I didn't expect a reply. But it got me thinking. Do I really want this position? To have this big name company on my résumé, and for what? I've done stints are 3 other Fortune 500s where I was a just a small tooth on a cog, in an organization of hundreds of cogs. I talked to my relative, who explained the interview process, and how to prepare, etc.
The recruiter explained the benefits, said they were excellent for the industry. 10 days of time off for the first 3 years, use as you accrue, and 6 personal days, plus 7 public holidays. The base pay he mentioned was about $4k more than I get. But the real trade off is the stock (RSU). CSP is known for having a wrote in stone pay/RSU policy, there's no negotiating. They lock in your pay/RSU for 4 years.
Current small sized employer has a rule that as long as I bill customer 1800H/year, or 150H/month on average, I can take the rest of the time off. Since non-billable time is minimal, less than 8H/year, I get PTO of 5 weeks. Plus I get 10 public holidays (work in the DoD sector, so get President's Day, Veterans' Day, Columbus Day).
In essence, I'd be trading time off for stock and a few more work hours per week and increased travel (when the company lifts the work from home rule). New job would be 20-30% domestic flying around and 45H/week of billing.
I work for a good, small professional services company, we've become known for a niche specialty, our CEO and CTO are always working on new contracts/renewals and they have a technical background where the company culture is excellent. Lots of autonomy, I am a team/project lead, and help on other projects too, some proposals and proof-of-concepts.
Currently I work from home and travel to local customer site 2-3 days/week. I'm home by 4pm, drop my young kids for their sports training and go exercise. Help out kids with homework after dinner and help the wife cook/clean up the kitchen. No out of town travel away from family. Plus get to see my dad over dinner 2-3x/week when he joins us.
Wife and I have good pay, rental income from several condos, 2 homes (renovating one, then moving in, and selling the old one in this crazy RE market), and retirement/brokerage accounts. We aren't in need of more money (and more stress) at the expense of a balanced work/life routine. My wife is looking at changing jobs to a less stressful and lesser hours gig.
We have FU money, we are technically FI, in the 2 comma club. We're already talking about me going FIRE in 12 years, when I turn 55 (because my job and industry is fun, because the people are fun). Wife probably will be retiring earlier. And we'll downsize. All this is in the IPS/long-term plan.
I don't need or want the CSP gig.
Thanks FU Money.
... We've opened up our home to a refugee from Ukraine. ...This is the best thing I’ve heard on this forum since the legal victory to reunite a family across the border. I’m so glad you had & took the opportunity. It will be a joyful house to have so many people in it creating beautiful things in a difficult era. (My FU money went to healing Putin-inflicted injuries, but if I’m being honest I hope most sincerely that he gets a piece of your mind.)
Swordguy - would you consider starting a new thread devoted to this (if there is not one already) so we can have one consolidated reference?
And continuing on from my wife's epic FU story. She's now poached one of her former colleagues.
Apparently my wifes old manager is furious. Wife's response was classic on hearing this "I don't care, she hated me already".
I love this thread, but it's been too quiet lately. There's gotta be some epic FU stories happening during the "Great Resignation"!
I limped along for about 2yrs at work and ultimately developed depression, anxiety and terrible insomnia. 20/20 if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have wasted those two years of my life as a shell of my former self. Finally last October I told my boss to fuck himself (literally I said that) and resigned and spent the rest of my days driving a supercar to work and flexing hard on my boss. 7mo later and they still haven't found a replacement for me, I work as an independent contractor two days a week doing way less work but get paid twice as much....and get paid hourly. This is they way. Still have the same boss, btw, but the power dynamic is the exact opposite.Batsignal @big_owl
I don't know if my situation is a FU money story or a MPP. (If y'all say MPP, I'll move it there.)
A couple of weeks ago, a cloud service provider (CSP) recruiter contacted me for a position. A relative works there. Had the 30 minute screening call (which was almost an hour) and it went well, which opened up a few different opportunities in different customer sectors due to my background and experience. I was to send my résumé to recruiter and they would let me know "as soon as possible". I asked them to clarify benefits, working hours, etc.
However, this was just before the holidays, so I didn't expect a reply. But it got me thinking. Do I really want this position? To have this big name company on my résumé, and for what? I've done stints are 3 other Fortune 500s where I was a just a small tooth on a cog, in an organization of hundreds of cogs. I talked to my relative, who explained the interview process, and how to prepare, etc.
The recruiter explained the benefits, said they were excellent for the industry. 10 days of time off for the first 3 years, use as you accrue, and 6 personal days, plus 7 public holidays. The base pay he mentioned was about $4k more than I get. But the real trade off is the stock (RSU). CSP is known for having a wrote in stone pay/RSU policy, there's no negotiating. They lock in your pay/RSU for 4 years.
Current small sized employer has a rule that as long as I bill customer 1800H/year, or 150H/month on average, I can take the rest of the time off. Since non-billable time is minimal, less than 8H/year, I get PTO of 5 weeks. Plus I get 10 public holidays (work in the DoD sector, so get President's Day, Veterans' Day, Columbus Day).
In essence, I'd be trading time off for stock and a few more work hours per week and increased travel (when the company lifts the work from home rule). New job would be 20-30% domestic flying around and 45H/week of billing.
I work for a good, small professional services company, we've become known for a niche specialty, our CEO and CTO are always working on new contracts/renewals and they have a technical background where the company culture is excellent. Lots of autonomy, I am a team/project lead, and help on other projects too, some proposals and proof-of-concepts.
Currently I work from home and travel to local customer site 2-3 days/week. I'm home by 4pm, drop my young kids for their sports training and go exercise. Help out kids with homework after dinner and help the wife cook/clean up the kitchen. No out of town travel away from family. Plus get to see my dad over dinner 2-3x/week when he joins us.
Wife and I have good pay, rental income from several condos, 2 homes (renovating one, then moving in, and selling the old one in this crazy RE market), and retirement/brokerage accounts. We aren't in need of more money (and more stress) at the expense of a balanced work/life routine. My wife is looking at changing jobs to a less stressful and lesser hours gig.
We have FU money, we are technically FI, in the 2 comma club. We're already talking about me going FIRE in 12 years, when I turn 55 (because my job and industry is fun, because the people are fun). Wife probably will be retiring earlier. And we'll downsize. All this is in the IPS/long-term plan.
I don't need or want the CSP gig.
Thanks FU Money.
Update time:
The recruiter ghosted me. But I'm a stickler for professionalism, so I contacted him to see if it was still open or the slot had been filled. He replied that it was filled, without any apology or reason for lack of earlier response. Fine, it is what it is.
Last week, a hiring manager from same CSP asks me for my resume. Told him that I've been ghosted by a recruiter thus am wary of CSP's hiring process. He said he's directly responsible for filling job openings, not a recruiter, so we have back and forth messages on a professional networking website. Agree to talk on the phone, but time and date not fixed. This morning, reading my tech newsletters, came across this: https://medium.com/geekculture/my-amazon-reptilian-brain-86607f0e7193
I didn't want to get CSP's corporate mindthink process embedded in me. I didn't want my career with CSP to be determined by CSP's leadership principles. (FWIW, I subscribe to IEEE's Code of Ethics (https://www.ieee.org/about/corporate/governance/p7-8.html) since becoming a student member in 2001.)
This morning, replied to the hiring manager and said I'll pass on any opportunity.
Wasn't worth it, with their world-class "10-days of time-off" for the first 3 years. No amount of RSU/stock can substitute for the 5-6 weeks of time off I get currently for spending time with family and an aging parent.
Coincidentally, a high school friend works for the same CSP on the infrastructure side, in Europe, as a chartered civil engineer. He's been there a year, but is planning to move on in the near future. He isn't happy, and said benefits are worse compared to the traditional civil engineering companies.
City clerk wanted to take some vacation days, the city refused.
Clerk up and quit.
City government has had to shut down because she quit. (It's a very small town.)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/travel/a-maine-town-reportedly-shut-down-after-its-only-clerk-quit-when-her-vacation-request-was-denied/ar-AAXz0i3 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/travel/a-maine-town-reportedly-shut-down-after-its-only-clerk-quit-when-her-vacation-request-was-denied/ar-AAXz0i3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G-sijKNU9c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G-sijKNU9c)Holy smokes, that guy looks like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons!
This one really makes me laugh. I totally identify with the guy being interviewed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G-sijKNU9c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G-sijKNU9c)Holy smokes, that guy looks like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons!
This one really makes me laugh. I totally identify with the guy being interviewed.
I'm giving a big FU to an abusive person in authority and I'm using FU money to enable walking away.
"But, SwordGuy, aren't you already retired for almost 4 years?"
Yeah, I retired from my place of employment, but I didn't retire from being a responsible citizen of the world.
...
I have to tell you, this is the best FU money I've ever used because it's literally being used for real freedom.
Nothing too crazy, but my site lead was becoming an intolerable pain in the ass--impatient and pushy and snippy basically all of the time, despite everyone working hard and doing their best, which in almost all cases was good enough. It reached a point where I woke up in the middle of the night with chest pain and decided enough is enough.
The next day I told him if the high tension vibe continued, I was out of there. "I'm on the brink of throwing in the towel," I told him.
He changed the beat of his drum--QUICK!!! He backed way off, and it felt incredible.
That very same weekend I started reading the book "Set Boundaries, Find Peace," which I cannot recommend highly enough. One of the ideas is that when you set a boundary, be prepared to defend it. People will test it, and if you don't defend, the boundary disappears.
So sure enough my site lead started being a pain in the ass again. The issue was that I recently asked to drop down to a 4 day work week, which I was allowed to do (I'm 20% retired!). With a 4th of July off, my schedule was basically a 4 day weekend, then a 3 day work week and then another 3 day weekend. He was upset about that (jealous) and rude to me about it, and pressured me to come in to have less time off.
So the next day I said I didn't like being spoken to in that way, and that if he did it again, I would bring it up again. I also said "I am taking 4 days off, then working 3, then taking 3 off." I didn't ask, I told him that's what I was doing. He graciously accepted my boundary (which the book says most people will), which was nice, but I have little doubt he's going to be rude again, in which case I am prepared to say "Please don't use that tone with me".
I have become convinced that failing to set a boundary when someone is rude to you is highly damaging to your mental health. I've realized that the consequence of NOT setting firm boundaries with rude people is far worse than losing my job. Thus, my path forward is very clear: set boundaries no matter what, even if I get fired.
It's pretty liberating to have this clarity. My net worth is somewhere between 1 and 200k. I'm never going back to letting people be rude to me, and I don't give a fuck if it results in me losing my job.
Nothing too crazy, but my site lead was becoming an intolerable pain in the ass--impatient and pushy and snippy basically all of the time, despite everyone working hard and doing their best, which in almost all cases was good enough. It reached a point where I woke up in the middle of the night with chest pain and decided enough is enough.
The next day I told him if the high tension vibe continued, I was out of there. "I'm on the brink of throwing in the towel," I told him.
He changed the beat of his drum--QUICK!!! He backed way off, and it felt incredible.
That very same weekend I started reading the book "Set Boundaries, Find Peace," which I cannot recommend highly enough. One of the ideas is that when you set a boundary, be prepared to defend it. People will test it, and if you don't defend, the boundary disappears.
So sure enough my site lead started being a pain in the ass again. The issue was that I recently asked to drop down to a 4 day work week, which I was allowed to do (I'm 20% retired!). With a 4th of July off, my schedule was basically a 4 day weekend, then a 3 day work week and then another 3 day weekend. He was upset about that (jealous) and rude to me about it, and pressured me to come in to have less time off.
So the next day I said I didn't like being spoken to in that way, and that if he did it again, I would bring it up again. I also said "I am taking 4 days off, then working 3, then taking 3 off." I didn't ask, I told him that's what I was doing. He graciously accepted my boundary (which the book says most people will), which was nice, but I have little doubt he's going to be rude again, in which case I am prepared to say "Please don't use that tone with me".
I have become convinced that failing to set a boundary when someone is rude to you is highly damaging to your mental health. I've realized that the consequence of NOT setting firm boundaries with rude people is far worse than losing my job. Thus, my path forward is very clear: set boundaries no matter what, even if I get fired.
It's pretty liberating to have this clarity. My net worth is somewhere between 1 and 200k. I'm never going back to letting people be rude to me, and I don't give a fuck if it results in me losing my job.
@Gone_Hiking , congrats on coming thru that mess ok.What is meant by wage theft?
Now all that remains to be done is to report them for wage theft.
Wage theft is a heinous crime that should be paid for in blood. Make them pay as much as the law allows.
Lots of workplace policies out there that are not square with the law that owners get away with until someone reports them. Unpaid overtime or not time and half. Policy resulting in time starting later than it legally should or ending earlier. Depending on job, travel policy can be a place where pay and/or reimbursements are not as much as they should be.@Gone_Hiking , congrats on coming thru that mess ok.What is meant by wage theft?
Now all that remains to be done is to report them for wage theft.
Wage theft is a heinous crime that should be paid for in blood. Make them pay as much as the law allows.
Can't be not paying, because those paycheck to paycheck people would realize it immediately.
@Gone_Hiking , congrats on coming thru that mess ok.What is meant by wage theft?
Now all that remains to be done is to report them for wage theft.
Wage theft is a heinous crime that should be paid for in blood. Make them pay as much as the law allows.
Can't be not paying, because those paycheck to paycheck people would realize it immediately.
Not necessarily a FU story but more of a cash cushion giving me some freedom story.
…
It really is me knowing I could fall back on my savings the gave me the confidence of taking that risk.
What is meant by wage theft?
Can't be not paying, because those paycheck to paycheck people would realize it immediately.
Years ago, I was the sole Network Engineer for a company that really should have had two engineers. If something broke during my off time, I was still expected to work the issue. I brought it up a few times that this is not sustainable because there is going to be a time when I am not available and the problem will sit until I am available, resulting in lost production.
One day I had a dentist appointment and took off two hours early. The next day, my manager told me that I needed to put in PTO for the two hours. I brought up the many times that I worked outside of my normal hours. He said that I need to put in PTO any time I am out during my normal hours. I said that I can either be concerned about running the network to the best of my ability, or I can be concerned about occupying my chair for 40 hours per week, choose wisely. He said that my hours are 7-4 M-F.
About a month later, we had a failure on a Saturday afternoon that caused a work stoppage at one of our locations. My manager called me and reported the problem. I told him that I will be in the office 7am Monday. He started to protest, and I reminded him that I am only following the working hours that he dictated. More flexible hours were soon implemented and a second engineer was hired.
I doubt I would have stood my ground had I not been debt free and a comfortable cash cushion.
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.
Because employees will. I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day. Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning. I was like 'wait? that's an option?!'. No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing. I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.
Because employees will. I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day. Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning. I was like 'wait? that's an option?!'. No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing. I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.
That's very true and great when it works out, which is probably a lot. In fairness, at some places it really isn't an option.. They have such a stranglehold on things that they can afford to lose someone who doesn't stick to the party line and do whatever they ask for the most part. In those cases, you may have to leave - and the culture is often so toxic that it's a big plus when you do. Having savings comes in handy in those situations as well!
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.
Because employees will. I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day. Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning. I was like 'wait? that's an option?!'. No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing. I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.
Join your Trades' Union, folks, or your employee association, whatever it's called. As a single person going up against a big organisation you haven't a hope, as part of a group with the same aims you've got a chance of evening up the score.
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.
Because employees will. I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day. Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning. I was like 'wait? that's an option?!'. No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing. I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.
That's very true and great when it works out, which is probably a lot. In fairness, at some places it really isn't an option.. They have such a stranglehold on things that they can afford to lose someone who doesn't stick to the party line and do whatever they ask for the most part. In those cases, you may have to leave - and the culture is often so toxic that it's a big plus when you do. Having savings comes in handy in those situations as well!
There are also places where people just...like to work a lot, I guess? I once worked with a guy who would do all night deployments and then show up to work and put in 9+ hours. I told him he should stay home and recover and he just shrugged his shoulders.
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.
Because employees will. I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day. Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning. I was like 'wait? that's an option?!'. No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing. I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.
I work in IT and I've always said that I'm absolutely available out of hours to help or work on a production issue as long as it's fair. It's a two-way street. If they want me to take the call at 3am, they need to let me take a few hours off in the morning, or when convenient.
I've had to explain this (politely) a few times, but it's always worked. If not, then they always reconsider the first time you don't hear the phone. Because they usually realize they need you a lot more during a 3am emergency than they do on a Friday at 3pm.
People very often back off when you push back (nicely) - they know they don't have a leg to stand on. It works because employees never push back.
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.
Because employees will. I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day. Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning. I was like 'wait? that's an option?!'. No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing. I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.
That's very true and great when it works out, which is probably a lot. In fairness, at some places it really isn't an option.. They have such a stranglehold on things that they can afford to lose someone who doesn't stick to the party line and do whatever they ask for the most part. In those cases, you may have to leave - and the culture is often so toxic that it's a big plus when you do. Having savings comes in handy in those situations as well!
There are also places where people just...like to work a lot, I guess? I once worked with a guy who would do all night deployments and then show up to work and put in 9+ hours. I told him he should stay home and recover and he just shrugged his shoulders.
That is possible, of course. I've never seen anyone like that that is not assuming it will lead to a promotion so they are working towards something rather than just liking to work, but there are all kinds of people out there...
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.
Because employees will. I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day. Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning. I was like 'wait? that's an option?!'. No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing. I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.
That's very true and great when it works out, which is probably a lot. In fairness, at some places it really isn't an option.. They have such a stranglehold on things that they can afford to lose someone who doesn't stick to the party line and do whatever they ask for the most part. In those cases, you may have to leave - and the culture is often so toxic that it's a big plus when you do. Having savings comes in handy in those situations as well!
There are also places where people just...like to work a lot, I guess? I once worked with a guy who would do all night deployments and then show up to work and put in 9+ hours. I told him he should stay home and recover and he just shrugged his shoulders.
That is possible, of course. I've never seen anyone like that that is not assuming it will lead to a promotion so they are working towards something rather than just liking to work, but there are all kinds of people out there...
Honestly, I think this person was just being taken advantage of and he sorta...went with it? He was critical to the success of IT and there needed to be 5 of him, but he was good enough at what he did and willing to sacrifice his personal life that they just had him do everything.
He needed better leaders above him to force him to stay home more and hire more help. He also needed to set better boundaries. I tried to gently nudge him towards that, but he never wanted to do it so...
learned a lot just watching him do the things I don't want to do unless I am very, very well paid.
He got a new job and my husband has taken over the IT help for her department. She is...not amused at his completely reasonable boundaries.
He got a new job and my husband has taken over the IT help for her department. She is...not amused at his completely reasonable boundaries.
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.
Because employees will. I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day. Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning. I was like 'wait? that's an option?!'. No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing. I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.
That's very true and great when it works out, which is probably a lot. In fairness, at some places it really isn't an option.. They have such a stranglehold on things that they can afford to lose someone who doesn't stick to the party line and do whatever they ask for the most part. In those cases, you may have to leave - and the culture is often so toxic that it's a big plus when you do. Having savings comes in handy in those situations as well!
There are also places where people just...like to work a lot, I guess? I once worked with a guy who would do all night deployments and then show up to work and put in 9+ hours. I told him he should stay home and recover and he just shrugged his shoulders.
That is possible, of course. I've never seen anyone like that that is not assuming it will lead to a promotion so they are working towards something rather than just liking to work, but there are all kinds of people out there...
Honestly, I think this person was just being taken advantage of and he sorta...went with it? He was critical to the success of IT and there needed to be 5 of him, but he was good enough at what he did and willing to sacrifice his personal life that they just had him do everything.
He needed better leaders above him to force him to stay home more and hire more help. He also needed to set better boundaries. I tried to gently nudge him towards that, but he never wanted to do it so...
learned a lot just watching him do the things I don't want to do unless I am very, very well paid.
I tended to be more flexible, especially for the particularly competent and productive people on my team. For example, one guy wanted to take a college class to finish his degree, but it meant he wouldn't get to work until 10 am twice a week. He was a reliable person who had been at the company several years, and he said he was willing to stay until 6:30 pm on those days. Was I okay with that? Of course I was. But you know it led to another manager whining to me about their people complaining or (more likely) "reporting" him for coming in late. Eyeroll.
That is possible, of course. I've never seen anyone like that that is not assuming it will lead to a promotion so they are working towards something rather than just liking to work, but there are all kinds of people out there...We have plenty of people coming to work for us straight out of college who thinks working there is just the coolest thing and spends all their waking hours at work. Makes taking a stand for work life balance a bit more conspicuous...
That is possible, of course. I've never seen anyone like that that is not assuming it will lead to a promotion so they are working towards something rather than just liking to work, but there are all kinds of people out there...We have plenty of people coming to work for us straight out of college who thinks working there is just the coolest thing and spends all their waking hours at work. Makes taking a stand for work life balance a bit more conspicuous...
Worst manager I ever left.
Worst manager I ever left.
As the saying goes -- people usually don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
Isn't it stragne that so many people complain about really bad managers, every study ever on the topic fround that at least 1/3 is a bad manager... and still nobody says "get rid of them" even though there are enough examples of self-organized companies? (Which in the end generally have some sort of manager, but only because there is work to be done, not to order people around.)Worst manager I ever left.
As the saying goes -- people usually don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
Isn't it stragne that so many people complain about really bad managers, every study ever on the topic fround that at least 1/3 is a bad manager... and still nobody says "get rid of them" even though there are enough examples of self-organized companies? (Which in the end generally have some sort of manager, but only because there is work to be done, not to order people around.)Worst manager I ever left.
As the saying goes -- people usually don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
Isn't it stragne that so many people complain about really bad managers, every study ever on the topic fround that at least 1/3 is a bad manager... and still nobody says "get rid of them" even though there are enough examples of self-organized companies? (Which in the end generally have some sort of manager, but only because there is work to be done, not to order people around.)Worst manager I ever left.
As the saying goes -- people usually don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
That's probably because a bad manager from the employee's point of view can be a good manager from the company's point of view. This one was a good little soldier, and since most of us in the team were self-sufficient, it worked for them. If it hadn't, maybe they'd have trained him (and the others).
Also, from the company's POV, a bad manager is better than no manager. They still (mostly) keep people in line, do some of the grunt work that needs doing, and they take the blame.
Isn't it stragne that so many people complain about really bad managers, every study ever on the topic fround that at least 1/3 is a bad manager... and still nobody says "get rid of them" even though there are enough examples of self-organized companies? (Which in the end generally have some sort of manager, but only because there is work to be done, not to order people around.)Worst manager I ever left.
As the saying goes -- people usually don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
That's probably because a bad manager from the employee's point of view can be a good manager from the company's point of view. This one was a good little soldier, and since most of us in the team were self-sufficient, it worked for them. If it hadn't, maybe they'd have trained him (and the others).
Also, from the company's POV, a bad manager is better than no manager. They still (mostly) keep people in line, do some of the grunt work that needs doing, and they take the blame.
Isn't it stragne that so many people complain about really bad managers, every study ever on the topic fround that at least 1/3 is a bad manager... and still nobody says "get rid of them" even though there are enough examples of self-organized companies? (Which in the end generally have some sort of manager, but only because there is work to be done, not to order people around.)Worst manager I ever left.
As the saying goes -- people usually don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
That's probably because a bad manager from the employee's point of view can be a good manager from the company's point of view. This one was a good little soldier, and since most of us in the team were self-sufficient, it worked for them. If it hadn't, maybe they'd have trained him (and the others).
Also, from the company's POV, a bad manager is better than no manager. They still (mostly) keep people in line, do some of the grunt work that needs doing, and they take the blame.
And someone that you see as a bad manager can be a good manager from someone else point of view. I have had managers that might be seen as bad managers by some but they worked really well with me because they didn’t interfere with my work and I could basically do as I liked as long as I did my work. I have also had managers that tried to micromanage everything which made me hate going to work. He was a nice guy when a colleague but a lousy boss. He actually left the company shortly after me as he lost a lot of employees and I heard afterwards that they were not happy with his leadership.
Isn't it stragne that so many people complain about really bad managers, every study ever on the topic fround that at least 1/3 is a bad manager... and still nobody says "get rid of them" even though there are enough examples of self-organized companies? (Which in the end generally have some sort of manager, but only because there is work to be done, not to order people around.)Worst manager I ever left.
As the saying goes -- people usually don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
That's probably because a bad manager from the employee's point of view can be a good manager from the company's point of view. This one was a good little soldier, and since most of us in the team were self-sufficient, it worked for them. If it hadn't, maybe they'd have trained him (and the others).
Also, from the company's POV, a bad manager is better than no manager. They still (mostly) keep people in line, do some of the grunt work that needs doing, and they take the blame.
And someone that you see as a bad manager can be a good manager from someone else point of view. I have had managers that might be seen as bad managers by some but they worked really well with me because they didn’t interfere with my work and I could basically do as I liked as long as I did my work. I have also had managers that tried to micromanage everything which made me hate going to work. He was a nice guy when a colleague but a lousy boss. He actually left the company shortly after me as he lost a lot of employees and I heard afterwards that they were not happy with his leadership.
I think the difference is there are styles of management and skilled and unskilled managers. Skilled managers can vary management styles for employees. My first couple years out of college having little experience, I needed much more "micromanagment" to perform well. 8 years later, micromanaging drove me nuts. A skilled/trained manager can go between styles and help people wherever they are at.
I think the good/bad labels are often thrown around when an unskilled manager doesn't use the style that benefits the particular person. That's not the same as a good/bad manager IMO. To be a good vs. bad manager, it takes other things - sticking up for your employees, listening and trusting them, acknowledging that they may know more than you do on a topic, etc. I can work around different management styles and have in the past. I can't work past a manager that doesn't trust what I have to say in areas I'm knowledgable about or that hang me out to dry for their mismanagement of priorities or whatever the case may be. I can even help an unskilled manager/new manager with things they don't know.
I do think people call managers bad because of the skilled part - and they can certainly drive employees away because they are unskilled, but there are a great number of managers out there who are truly bad managers. While I've seen unskilled managers improve to be skilled, better managers, I have never seen bad managers become good managers.
Isn't it stragne that so many people complain about really bad managers, every study ever on the topic fround that at least 1/3 is a bad manager... and still nobody says "get rid of them" even though there are enough examples of self-organized companies? (Which in the end generally have some sort of manager, but only because there is work to be done, not to order people around.)Worst manager I ever left.
As the saying goes -- people usually don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
That's probably because a bad manager from the employee's point of view can be a good manager from the company's point of view. This one was a good little soldier, and since most of us in the team were self-sufficient, it worked for them. If it hadn't, maybe they'd have trained him (and the others).
Also, from the company's POV, a bad manager is better than no manager. They still (mostly) keep people in line, do some of the grunt work that needs doing, and they take the blame.
And someone that you see as a bad manager can be a good manager from someone else point of view. I have had managers that might be seen as bad managers by some but they worked really well with me because they didn’t interfere with my work and I could basically do as I liked as long as I did my work. I have also had managers that tried to micromanage everything which made me hate going to work. He was a nice guy when a colleague but a lousy boss. He actually left the company shortly after me as he lost a lot of employees and I heard afterwards that they were not happy with his leadership.
I think the difference is there are styles of management and skilled and unskilled managers. Skilled managers can vary management styles for employees. My first couple years out of college having little experience, I needed much more "micromanagment" to perform well. 8 years later, micromanaging drove me nuts. A skilled/trained manager can go between styles and help people wherever they are at.
I think the good/bad labels are often thrown around when an unskilled manager doesn't use the style that benefits the particular person. That's not the same as a good/bad manager IMO. To be a good vs. bad manager, it takes other things - sticking up for your employees, listening and trusting them, acknowledging that they may know more than you do on a topic, etc. I can work around different management styles and have in the past. I can't work past a manager that doesn't trust what I have to say in areas I'm knowledgable about or that hang me out to dry for their mismanagement of priorities or whatever the case may be. I can even help an unskilled manager/new manager with things they don't know.
I do think people call managers bad because of the skilled part - and they can certainly drive employees away because they are unskilled, but there are a great number of managers out there who are truly bad managers. While I've seen unskilled managers improve to be skilled, better managers, I have never seen bad managers become good managers.
Isn't it strange that so many people complain about really bad managers, every study ever on the topic found that at least 1/3 is a bad manager... and still nobody says "get rid of them" even though there are enough examples of self-organized companies? (Which in the end generally have some sort of manager, but only because there is work to be done, not to order people around.)Worst manager I ever left.
As the saying goes -- people usually don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
Isn't it strange that so many people complain about really bad managers, every study ever on the topic found that at least 1/3 is a bad manager... and still nobody says "get rid of them" even though there are enough examples of self-organized companies? (Which in the end generally have some sort of manager, but only because there is work to be done, not to order people around.)Worst manager I ever left.
As the saying goes -- people usually don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
The person in a position to fire the bad manager will probably be saddled with the work of that manager. It could easily take months to replace them, especially in a large bureaucratic organization.
In organizations that promote from within, the best worker rarely makes the best manager. But most organizations are willing to accept that tradeoff because it provides an incentive to perform and get promoted to manager. If you were the top performer and saw a colleague, get promoted above you (who may have a better aptitude for management) it's likely to cause resentment and now maybe that company loses a top performer.
Isn't it stragne that so many people complain about really bad managers, every study ever on the topic fround that at least 1/3 is a bad manager... and still nobody says "get rid of them" even though there are enough examples of self-organized companies? (Which in the end generally have some sort of manager, but only because there is work to be done, not to order people around.)Worst manager I ever left.
As the saying goes -- people usually don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
He got a new job and my husband has taken over the IT help for her department. She is...not amused at his completely reasonable boundaries.
This is the part I want to hear more about.
If nothing else, this keeps one's incentive to reach FIRE burning hot...He got a new job and my husband has taken over the IT help for her department. She is...not amused at his completely reasonable boundaries.
This is the part I want to hear more about.
In the past my husband's team waited until the end of summer break (it's a college) to set up the computers for the next school year, which meant having a one month scramble to do everything. With less people the bosses said that it was completely undoable this year. She refused to do testing at the beginning of July because "that isn't when it's done". My husband got an email at 9 oclock last night demanding he fix a bug that she finally got around to finding. He has permission to wait until working hours to respond to non-emergencies. The phrase failure to plan on your part does not make an emergency on mine is becoming a daily utterance.
Yes, finding ways to limit the amount of abuse you have are important. I find in many instances that involves getting out of the corporate world as quickly as possible.
The next discussion was me telling him that I had to do what was best for me, and if that was the best for the theater, that's great, but if it wasn't, I had no qualms about walking away. I also informed him that I wouldn't stick around for my current job. It was the promotion or nothing.That is an awesome story, thanks for sharing! Sorry to hear about your boss passing. That must be awful for his family as well.
I got a job offer today. With a $17,000/yr raise and a healthy bit of vacation.
I guess I'm staying.
I didn't mean to abuse the time in lieu... I honestly thought I was doing the right thing - with no management oversight (i.e. day shift lead never spoke to the night shift lead) - it was the best paid and relaxing job of my early career.
Posted in my journal, but I think it belongs here, too.
I've been covering a second full time position (my boss') on top of my own for more than six months. The first three were understandable. It was FMLA. We weren't sure what the outcome would be. No temporary acting pay, but it seemed crass to complain and I didn't need it. Sadly, just after the FMLA was up and we were deciding how to move forward, my boss passed. This sucked. I liked the guy. And I'd been working in his organization for nearly 15 years.
The following Monday, I was designated as officially temporary acting general manager, which came with a 10% pay bump. The last time I had been through this, I was officially promoted within five weeks. This time, they didn't open the position for a month. They didn't interview until three weeks ago. By now, I've been covering two full-time positions for the six months. We've been busier than ever for the past two years, and we've been understaffed. To cap it off with this... I got to the point where I was done. I was/am ticked that they dragged this on for so long. I'm exhausted. I have a business degree now, so i have options. AND my vacation/sick leave/comp time buyout is up to $23,000. (I calculate it whenever I'm having a bad day at work.)
So. I withdrew my application for GM, perfectly willing and happy to walk away and torpedo my career.
I got a phone call within ten minutes. I was treated to breakfast while I explained that I was done and why I was done. A somewhat panicky Department Director promised to move heaven and earth for me. To pretend that I'd never sent the email. I pointed out that I had copied (HR guy). "I can kill (HR guy)". He asked me to think about it.
The next discussion was me telling him that I had to do what was best for me, and if that was the best for the theater, that's great, but if it wasn't, I had no qualms about walking away. I also informed him that I wouldn't stick around for my current job. It was the promotion or nothing.
I got a job offer today. With a $17,000/yr raise and a healthy bit of vacation.
I guess I'm staying.
Thanks FU money!
Great story, and sorry about the boss.The next discussion was me telling him that I had to do what was best for me, and if that was the best for the theater, that's great, but if it wasn't, I had no qualms about walking away. I also informed him that I wouldn't stick around for my current job. It was the promotion or nothing.That is an awesome story, thanks for sharing! Sorry to hear about your boss passing. That must be awful for his family as well.
I got a job offer today. With a $17,000/yr raise and a healthy bit of vacation.
I guess I'm staying.
While I’m here, I’m surprised we haven’t seen any FU stories out of Twitter. No Twitterites on MMM?
I understand that the hospital has NOT yet given notice to you.And do it in the respectful, understanding (read: nasty) way.
So make sure to give notice according to your notice period. Even with your new job lined up and the upcoming contractor drama I would make sure to handle my current employment end according to law and contract and have evidence of that.
And please keep us updated!
...
In the end my FU money bought me the confidence to look for a new job even if the pay was lower and it bought me a glorious month off of work to focus on time with my babies/moving and I couldn't be happier.
The following Monday, two weeks before my outage schedule was supposed to start, I gave my supervisor two weeks’ notice. My exact words were "I found a way to make it work"Afuera- wow that is epic!
I hope you linked this thread for the ex-twitter folks to come share with us.
fuzzy math, I continue to be astounded by the culture of abuse in clinical care settings. It doesn't make sense to me that there is a rampant culture of abuse in healthcare, but too many people have stories to indicate that it is.
Are you starting your new job around the same time they are planning to make you a contractor? I'd be tempted to tell the guy flying in "this is an interesting prospect. Thank you for talking this over with us and offering these contracts. I'll definitely think it over" rather than just telling him I'm gone. Why not drag it out?
By contracting it out, is their plan that you won't have benefits? If so, then I'd point out I am fully aware how much benefits are worth (likely you'd need something like a 25-50+% bump in pay to make it a level swap, depending upon your pay and current benefits.) Find out how much it would cost monthly just to keep your health insurance on Cobra, and at a minimum tack that onto your salary needs, but there are likely other benefits that are worth money you can compute. My own employer sends us an annual statement to point out our "real" pay if benefits are counted. Kind of obnoxious in a way, but also makes me aware that salary is only a part of my compensation.
I hope your next batch of colleagues know how to act!
The hospital has not officially given me layoff paperwork because the contract is not signed. I have not given notice yet because I currently don't have anyone to give notice to. If it remains under hospital control in January, I will then provide 30 days notice. But at this point my employer has told me they're not the ones responsible for me in January. Why would I notify the hospital if they have basically told me that they're not my chain of command for 2023?
...he was not willing to compromise at all and just said "You will find a way to make it work".
...two weeks before my outage schedule was supposed to start, I gave my supervisor two weeks’ notice. My exact words were "I found a way to make it work". His face just dropped...
In the end my FU money bought me the confidence to look for a new job even if the pay was lower and it bought me a glorious month off of work to focus on time with my babies/moving and I couldn't be happier.
@fuzzy math : Right now you and the hospital are in contract.
This situation remains as is, unless one side gives notice and the notice period has passed OR you and the hospital agree to end your employmen on a certain date.
I would want to make sure that I am not in contract with 2 employers on Jan. 1st.
I'm not going to tell them a single thing until they ask me repeatedly and then tell me the contractor has backed out.
I have an FU money story that happened about 2 months ago.
"I found a way to make it work". His face just dropped and I could tell he was pissed
"I found a way to make it work".
The hospital has not officially given me layoff paperwork because the contract is not signed. I have not given notice yet because I currently don't have anyone to give notice to. If it remains under hospital control in January, I will then provide 30 days notice. But at this point my employer has told me they're not the ones responsible for me in January. Why would I notify the hospital if they have basically told me that they're not my chain of command for 2023?
I am enjoying the popcorn. When you say you have been "basically told", is this crystal clear and in writing? I do want to caution that unless they've given you official notice of the change, you likely do need* to give them notice if they don't give you formal notice first, even if you are not quite sure to whom it should be. (I would think to your current boss though.)
When does the new job start? They are giving a generous transition time to you if in January.
*I use need loosely. In an at will employment state, you aren't legally obligated to do so, but it's a very strong custom for not burning bridges. (Although they might consider you to have burnt a bridge here anyways.)
Congrats, afuera! Well done indeed!QuoteI'm not going to tell them a single thing until they ask me repeatedly and then tell me the contractor has backed out.
fuzzy math: My suggestion here would be that you are super duper nice to the owner of the contract company when he visits. Warn him gently as you can, but be nice. Maybe he will follow up to let you know whether he decided to sign the contract? You can always give him your contact info and ask him to do that. I think it's a good idea to give him a lot of questions (perhaps even a written list of questions) so he knows what he is getting into.
Let him also know what you calculated your salary requirements need to be given the anticipated drop in the level of benefits, but be super nice to him. Not at all his fault that the current admin is idiots.
I work for a similar employer. In calculating your elevated pay requirements given any drop in benefits, please don't forget to include your current employer's paid time off (vacation, sick time, holidays, personal days) as contractors may or may not have paid time off. I found my employer's statement of the benefits that paid to me last year! Not including paid days off, and not including social security (which I'm assume any employer would have to pay on my behalf) they say my benefits cost them about $44,000 last year. That's a lot of money! It will be quite a lot more this year because I'm taking advantage of family educational benefits that weren't used before. Gotta add it ALL up!
If you have a new job lined up, then wait as long as you can to give notice. Once you give notice, they might try to treat you even worse. Unfortunately I've seen that happen. I know my employer has a written policy that requires 30 days notice "to be eligible for rehire." Up to you whether or not you care about that. I do know that my friend who hires nurses only calls references to ask for dates of employment and to ask if the person is eligible for rehire. In my case, I doubt any future employer would ever ask that particular question due to my different field, so I am less inclined to care.
The hospital has not officially given me layoff paperwork because the contract is not signed. I have not given notice yet because I currently don't have anyone to give notice to. If it remains under hospital control in January, I will then provide 30 days notice. But at this point my employer has told me they're not the ones responsible for me in January. Why would I notify the hospital if they have basically told me that they're not my chain of command for 2023?
I am enjoying the popcorn. When you say you have been "basically told", is this crystal clear and in writing? I do want to caution that unless they've given you official notice of the change, you likely do need* to give them notice if they don't give you formal notice first, even if you are not quite sure to whom it should be. (I would think to your current boss though.)
When does the new job start? They are giving a generous transition time to you if in January.
*I use need loosely. In an at will employment state, you aren't legally obligated to do so, but it's a very strong custom for not burning bridges. (Although they might consider you to have burnt a bridge here anyways.)
They and Employee relations have given me a summary of things known so far and intentions to have these changes occur with tentative dates. However since its not final there's nothing.
Everything I've said here is that I intend to give notice if they are still my employer. However if they don't intend to be my employer they may find it out through the contract owner when the contract owner tries to pressure me into signing on with him. I am possibly willing to work 1-3 weeks for him in January but its equally likely that he will not want the hassle of hiring me for that time frame. It is also somewhat dependent on what my other departing coworker does.
I start no later than Feb 13. Possibly it will be moved up if I don't have or don't want to work here during that time. Lots of moving pieces, my entire family will be moving.
I hope you linked this thread for the ex-twitter folks to come share with us.That's way too lowball. Contracting rates should be around 3x salary rates. Bare minimum of 2x.
fuzzy math, I continue to be astounded by the culture of abuse in clinical care settings. It doesn't make sense to me that there is a rampant culture of abuse in healthcare, but too many people have stories to indicate that it is.
Are you starting your new job around the same time they are planning to make you a contractor? I'd be tempted to tell the guy flying in "this is an interesting prospect. Thank you for talking this over with us and offering these contracts. I'll definitely think it over" rather than just telling him I'm gone. Why not drag it out?
By contracting it out, is their plan that you won't have benefits? If so, then I'd point out I am fully aware how much benefits are worth (likely you'd need something like a 25-50+% bump in pay to make it a level swap, depending upon your pay and current benefits.) Find out how much it would cost monthly just to keep your health insurance on Cobra, and at a minimum tack that onto your salary needs, but there are likely other benefits that are worth money you can compute. My own employer sends us an annual statement to point out our "real" pay if benefits are counted. Kind of obnoxious in a way, but also makes me aware that salary is only a part of my compensation.
I hope your next batch of colleagues know how to act!
Agreed. Awesome story....he was not willing to compromise at all and just said "You will find a way to make it work".
...two weeks before my outage schedule was supposed to start, I gave my supervisor two weeks’ notice. My exact words were "I found a way to make it work". His face just dropped...
In the end my FU money bought me the confidence to look for a new job even if the pay was lower and it bought me a glorious month off of work to focus on time with my babies/moving and I couldn't be happier.
LOL!!!!!!! @afuera, that's golden.
two thumbs up!Agreed. Awesome story....he was not willing to compromise at all and just said "You will find a way to make it work".
...two weeks before my outage schedule was supposed to start, I gave my supervisor two weeks’ notice. My exact words were "I found a way to make it work". His face just dropped...
In the end my FU money bought me the confidence to look for a new job even if the pay was lower and it bought me a glorious month off of work to focus on time with my babies/moving and I couldn't be happier.
LOL!!!!!!! @afuera, that's golden.
two thumbs up!Agreed. Awesome story....he was not willing to compromise at all and just said "You will find a way to make it work".
...two weeks before my outage schedule was supposed to start, I gave my supervisor two weeks’ notice. My exact words were "I found a way to make it work". His face just dropped...
In the end my FU money bought me the confidence to look for a new job even if the pay was lower and it bought me a glorious month off of work to focus on time with my babies/moving and I couldn't be happier.
LOL!!!!!!! @afuera, that's golden.
Yeah, some things are mind boggling for us socialists here ;)
P.S. I can see how some of these stories can be confusing for non-US residents. I worked for a huge company that operated in 60 countries and I was certainly amazed by the protections afforded employees/employers in other countries. I remember having to sign off on training covering privacy protection laws for European employees despite the fact much of the protections didn't apply to the US employees. The drug & alcohol policy was another huge difference from country to country.
two thumbs up!Agreed. Awesome story....he was not willing to compromise at all and just said "You will find a way to make it work".
...two weeks before my outage schedule was supposed to start, I gave my supervisor two weeks’ notice. My exact words were "I found a way to make it work". His face just dropped...
In the end my FU money bought me the confidence to look for a new job even if the pay was lower and it bought me a glorious month off of work to focus on time with my babies/moving and I couldn't be happier.
LOL!!!!!!! @afuera, that's golden.
Awesome, this forum needs a like button!!! Maybe we could make some customized MMM emojis :)
+1. I am gobsmacked that someone (your boss) with a new baby + 1 on the way is able to compartmentalize like that. Buh bye....he was not willing to compromise at all and just said "You will find a way to make it work".
...two weeks before my outage schedule was supposed to start, I gave my supervisor two weeks’ notice. My exact words were "I found a way to make it work". His face just dropped...
In the end my FU money bought me the confidence to look for a new job even if the pay was lower and it bought me a glorious month off of work to focus on time with my babies/moving and I couldn't be happier.
LOL!!!!!!! @afuera, that's golden.
I have an FU money story that happened about 2 months ago.“I found a way to make it work”
I've had the same professional engineering job since college. I had about 4 different roles within the company and received pretty regular pay bumps and salary grade promotions and received a couple exceeding expectations performance reviews. While I was young and kid-less, the job was manageable and I was well compensated so I was fairly content but I had one baby in 2021 and a second surprise baby in early 2022 and the job was quickly starting to not fit my lifestyle anymore. When I got back from maternity leave in early 2022, my supervisor was talking about my work schedule for an upcoming turnaround (large unit outage requiring 24 hour engineering support) which would be 12 hour shifts with 1 fatigue day off every 7-12 days. I worked one of these outages a couple years prior and while it sucked, it was manageable for the 2 months that the outage took. I told him that I really couldn't see how I was going to work that schedule since I was still breastfeeding my 5 month old and my supply would definitely drop missing that many feedings. Granted, he had just had a baby and his wife was pregnant with a second so I thought he would understand my situation. Instead, he was not willing to compromise at all and just said "You will find a way to make it work".
Here is where the FU money comes in. My husband had already quit his job to be a house spouse/SAHD so we still needed my income to pay the mortgage, buy diapers, etc. But since we have been saving 60%-70% of our income for years and had $1MM in investments, I knew that I could take a pay cut to work less hours or a less demanding job and while I needed a job, I did not need this one! I started applying to new jobs like crazy, probably 20 different applications within a month and was able to get pretty far in the interview process with a small little plant across the country but close to my family which is a huge bonus with two kids under 2. I was mentally calculating how much of a pay cut I would take in order to leave my old job/situation but I ended up getting an offer for higher salary, better benefits, a huge relocation package and a signing bonus. I accepted the offer and negotiated a start date about 6 weeks later.
The following Monday, two weeks before my outage schedule was supposed to start, I gave my supervisor two weeks’ notice. My exact words were "I found a way to make it work". His face just dropped and I could tell he was pissed but he didn't really say much. He had my job posted internally the next day, trying to get someone to fill the position before the outage.
I cannot explain how blissful it was to have an entire month off work to focus on moving across the country while knowing that my old coworkers were working that horrendous schedule. Now, my work life balance is so much better, I'm closer to family, and I'm getting better compensation. I just got an email a couple weeks back that they posted my old position externally and the salary range on indeed/glassdoor was about $30K less than I was making. Yea, good luck with that.
In the end my FU money bought me the confidence to look for a new job even if the pay was lower and it bought me a glorious month off of work to focus on time with my babies/moving and I couldn't be happier.
@fuzzy math : Right now you and the hospital are in contract.
This situation remains as is, unless one side gives notice and the notice period has passed OR you and the hospital agree to end your employmen on a certain date.
I would want to make sure that I am not in contract with 2 employers on Jan. 1st.
What you may be missing, Chris, is that in the US most workers don't have a contract. Almost all employees here are engaged in what's called, "at will employment." This means employers are under no obligation to continue to employ anyone. They can fire any worker, at any time, for any reason (aside from provable discrimination based on race, religion, etc), or for no reason at all. The other side of that coin is that employees are totally free to quit their jobs at any time, for any reason, or for no reason at all. Generally, there's a custom that employees are expected to give employers 2 weeks notice if they intend to quit, but this is in no way legally enforceable. It's just a custom. Otoh, employers regularly fire employees with zero notice, and that's totally legal, as well.
The international company I used to work for offered their key employees (the complete C-team, of course, and a few others) a bonus of a quarter to half their annual salary for staying on during transition times (mergers / take-overs) until at least 6 months after the deal was completed. Maybe you can negotiate something similar?Make sure there's a clause that the bonus is paid immediately if the company terminates you before the date of earning the bonus.
The international company I used to work for offered their key employees (the complete C-team, of course, and a few others) a bonus of a quarter to half their annual salary for staying on during transition times (mergers / take-overs) until at least 6 months after the deal was completed. Maybe you can negotiate something similar?
I have multiple text messages and emails stating to bosses and physicians I have safety concerns. My coworker had a safety checklist he signed as part of a pre patient care routine. It will fall squarely on him. If the hospital were to be sued and their lawyers got a chance to speak to me they'd be horrified about the overall lack of safety and the hospital would be forced to settle. I am not a physician, my liability insurance is thru them and I also carry umbrella insurance. I am not listed anywhere on the patient care record so I'm not even sure how I'd be dragged into it.
Way to go, and wow, good time to completely bail and save yourself.
While it seems unlikely that anything will ever come of it even if they do try to throw you under the bus, it is not uncommon for people who are either leaving or already gone to be blamed for all problems large and small.
We track our spending in a spreadsheet. For the current month we itemise everything in one tab. But then we keep a historical record by spending category by month in a different tab. Ie, I can tell you that I spent $2.10 on groceries on the 4th of December, and I can tell you that I spent $842.65 on groceries in July 2018, but I can't tell you what I spent on groceries on the 6th of July 2018.
Anyway, we have been tracking our monthly spend by category for about 14 years and each month we populate an extra column in the spreadsheet. This month we have reached column FU in the Excel spreadsheet.
I pointed out to Mrs G that that represented FU money. She just rolled her eyes at me and walked off in disgust...
[...] but I can't tell you what I spent on groceries on the 6th of July 2018.I just checked and I actually went grocery shopping on July 6th, 2018. Spent $93.55 on groceries, $15.47 on supplies. Sales tax was $7.77 making the total bill $116.79.
[...] but I can't tell you what I spent on groceries on the 6th of July 2018.I just checked and I actually went grocery shopping on July 6th, 2018. Spent $93.55 on groceries, $15.47 on supplies. Sales tax was $7.77 making the total bill $116.79.
Sometimes GnuCash feels like my diary.
[...] but I can't tell you what I spent on groceries on the 6th of July 2018.I just checked and I actually went grocery shopping on July 6th, 2018. Spent $93.55 on groceries, $15.47 on supplies. Sales tax was $7.77 making the total bill $116.79.
Sometimes GnuCash feels like my diary.
I love this forum so much...you are my tribe...
Are you recording things by hand? I've always downloaded transactions from my banks, so it's easier not to round, or otherwise massage the numbers.[...] but I can't tell you what I spent on groceries on the 6th of July 2018.I just checked and I actually went grocery shopping on July 6th, 2018. Spent $93.55 on groceries, $15.47 on supplies. Sales tax was $7.77 making the total bill $116.79.
Sometimes GnuCash feels like my diary.
I love this forum so much...you are my tribe...
+1! Although now I'm feeling a bit inferior, because I round my daily spending records up and down to the nearest dollar haha . . .
Are you recording things by hand? I've always downloaded transactions from my banks, so it's easier not to round, or otherwise massage the numbers.[...] but I can't tell you what I spent on groceries on the 6th of July 2018.I just checked and I actually went grocery shopping on July 6th, 2018. Spent $93.55 on groceries, $15.47 on supplies. Sales tax was $7.77 making the total bill $116.79.
Sometimes GnuCash feels like my diary.
I love this forum so much...you are my tribe...
+1! Although now I'm feeling a bit inferior, because I round my daily spending records up and down to the nearest dollar haha . . .
Yes, by hand. I don't like how the bank info comes over; it doesn't work with the categories I like to keep
Jumping in here late (It's been a while since I caught up) to congratulate @fuzzy math . Well done and congrats! I second the suggestion to print out (or otherwise back-up) all of the emails and texts if you can.Yes, by hand. I don't like how the bank info comes over; it doesn't work with the categories I like to keep
I also have a custom excel spreadsheet that I enter info into by hand. I've also not found the bank-imported categories to leave a lot wanting, but also I use several different banks/credit cards to maximize rewards (Chase, CitiBank, CapitalOne, etc.) and they each seem to export slightly differently. If I had a lot more time I could write some macros to pull out the info from each organization I need and streamline recurring effort, but I haven't found the motivation for it yet. Plus, it took me several years to get the spreadsheet exactly how I like it, which I know is arbitrary but it's something. Finally, with a simple excel document I can back it up easily, and can open it on 90%+ of computers without installing separate software.
Join your Trades' Union, folks, or your employee association, whatever it's called. As a single person going up against a big organisation you haven't a hope, as part of a group with the same aims you've got a chance of evening up the score.
We track our spending in a spreadsheet. For the current month we itemise everything in one tab. But then we keep a historical record by spending category by month in a different tab. Ie, I can tell you that I spent $2.10 on groceries on the 4th of December, and I can tell you that I spent $842.65 on groceries in July 2018, but I can't tell you what I spent on groceries on the 6th of July 2018.
Anyway, we have been tracking our monthly spend by category for about 14 years and each month we populate an extra column in the spreadsheet. This month we have reached column FU in the Excel spreadsheet.
I pointed out to Mrs G that that represented FU money. She just rolled her eyes at me and walked off in disgust...
Jumping in here late (It's been a while since I caught up) to congratulate @fuzzy math . Well done and congrats! I second the suggestion to print out (or otherwise back-up) all of the emails and texts if you can.Yes, by hand. I don't like how the bank info comes over; it doesn't work with the categories I like to keep
I also have a custom excel spreadsheet that I enter info into by hand. I've also not found the bank-imported categories to leave a lot wanting, but also I use several different banks/credit cards to maximize rewards (Chase, CitiBank, CapitalOne, etc.) and they each seem to export slightly differently. If I had a lot more time I could write some macros to pull out the info from each organization I need and streamline recurring effort, but I haven't found the motivation for it yet. Plus, it took me several years to get the spreadsheet exactly how I like it, which I know is arbitrary but it's something. Finally, with a simple excel document I can back it up easily, and can open it on 90%+ of computers without installing separate software.
Take a look at https://www.tillerhq.com/ (https://www.tillerhq.com/). It's a feed that pulls in financial data directly into Excel or Google Sheets in a standardized format. I'm a spreadsheet person too, and it saves me a ton of work.
Join your Trades' Union, folks, or your employee association, whatever it's called. As a single person going up against a big organisation you haven't a hope, as part of a group with the same aims you've got a chance of evening up the score.
I cannot count the number of times that my union has intervened to keep management from doing really stupid things that would hurt not just my colleagues and me, but the institution as well. I'm a lifetime member and it's been well worth it.
* Before I started teaching (1975, so long ago) our union had negotiated maternity leaves. This was long before provincial and federal maternity leave laws. Before our union got that, a teacher who went on maternity leave had no guarantee her job would be there for her when she was ready to go back to work.
* Before I started teaching (1975, so long ago) our union had negotiated maternity leaves. This was long before provincial and federal maternity leave laws. Before our union got that, a teacher who went on maternity leave had no guarantee her job would be there for her when she was ready to go back to work.
Before FMLA was created under Pres. Clinton and Labor Secretary Reich in 1993, NO ONE had a job for them waiting if they had to take time off for medical reasons. And women working as teachers and nurses were frequently fired when they began to show.
We haven't even had 30 years of FMLA protections yet - it wasn't all that long ago when this sort of sexism and discrimination was "baked into" the labor landscape.
(Mom was a nurse, aunts were teachers in those days).
Not epic. But I'm well established... I was working seasonal for mndot and I had enough of their childish covid daily pre screens and covid authoritarian rules. One day the boss (which is a good guy) said the pencil pushes have a new rule that we have to wear a mask now when we go into gas stations. I quit the next day. That was about 1 year ago.
Not epic. But I'm well established... I was working seasonal for mndot and I had enough of their childish covid daily pre screens and covid authoritarian rules. One day the boss (which is a good guy) said the pencil pushes have a new rule that we have to wear a mask now when we go into gas stations. I quit the next day. That was about 1 year ago.
Cool story bro. You sure showed them with their perfectly reasonable requests during the worst respiratory pandemic in a century. /s
Not epic. But I'm well established... I was working seasonal for mndot and I had enough of their childish covid daily pre screens and covid authoritarian rules. One day the boss (which is a good guy) said the pencil pushes have a new rule that we have to wear a mask now when we go into gas stations. I quit the next day. That was about 1 year ago.
Obviously not everyone agrees with your view of COVID rules, but congrats on being secure enough to pull trigger at the time of your choosing. I'd say that being able to do what you feel is right is epic.Kudos to you BB - what a courteous and respectful response :)
Not epic. But I'm well established... I was working seasonal for mndot and I had enough of their childish covid daily pre screens and covid authoritarian rules. One day the boss (which is a good guy) said the pencil pushes have a new rule that we have to wear a mask now when we go into gas stations. I quit the next day. That was about 1 year ago.
Cool story bro. You sure showed them with their perfectly reasonable requests during the worst respiratory pandemic in a century. /s
Not epic. But I'm well established... I was working seasonal for mndot and I had enough of their childish covid daily pre screens and covid authoritarian rules. One day the boss (which is a good guy) said the pencil pushes have a new rule that we have to wear a mask now when we go into gas stations. I quit the next day. That was about 1 year ago.
Cool story bro. You sure showed them with their perfectly reasonable requests during the worst respiratory pandemic in a century. /s
By December, 2021, everyone who wanted to be was already double, maybe triple, vaxxed. So, no, it wasn't "perfectly reasonable" for an employer to require workers to put on masks in order to pump gas. Most employees didn't have the ability to push back against unreasonable government mandates. Glad @CurledMoss had the means to tell those whiny fuckers, FU!
Not epic. But I'm well established... I was working seasonal for mndot and I had enough of their childish covid daily pre screens and covid authoritarian rules. One day the boss (which is a good guy) said the pencil pushes have a new rule that we have to wear a mask now when we go into gas stations. I quit the next day. That was about 1 year ago.
Cool story bro. You sure showed them with their perfectly reasonable requests during the worst respiratory pandemic in a century. /s
By December, 2021, everyone who wanted to be was already double, maybe triple, vaxxed. So, no, it wasn't "perfectly reasonable" for an employer to require workers to put on masks in order to pump gas. Most employees didn't have the ability to push back against unreasonable government mandates. Glad @CurledMoss had the means to tell those whiny fuckers, FU!
Perhaps you don’t remember that December 2021 was the height of the Omicron wave? You know, the variant that started infecting people again despite vaccination status?
And when it’s characterized as “just pumping gas” it sounds reasonable, but my bet is the the rule was “mask when interacting with others” because that’s what it was at my government org.
Not epic. But I'm well established... I was working seasonal for mndot and I had enough of their childish covid daily pre screens and covid authoritarian rules. One day the boss (which is a good guy) said the pencil pushes have a new rule that we have to wear a mask now when we go into gas stations. I quit the next day. That was about 1 year ago.
Cool story bro. You sure showed them with their perfectly reasonable requests during the worst respiratory pandemic in a century. /s
By December, 2021, everyone who wanted to be was already double, maybe triple, vaxxed. So, no, it wasn't "perfectly reasonable" for an employer to require workers to put on masks in order to pump gas. Most employees didn't have the ability to push back against unreasonable government mandates. Glad @CurledMoss had the means to tell those whiny fuckers, FU!
Perhaps you don’t remember that December 2021 was the height of the Omicron wave? You know, the variant that started infecting people again despite vaccination status?
And when it’s characterized as “just pumping gas” it sounds reasonable, but my bet is the the rule was “mask when interacting with others” because that’s what it was at my government org.
Perhaps you're the one not remembering that almost EVERYONE got sick from Omicron last winter. Friends who religiously wore masks everywhere, as well as people we know who never wore masks anywhere, almost all of them got sick from Omicron. In January 2022, at the peak of the Omicron surge, it was Restaurant Week in Center City Philadelphia. Every. single. night. we were out eating and drinking in jam-packed restaurants. It was hilarious watching the posers come in wearing their masks from the hostess stand to their tables. Then, they'd take their masks off, so they could eat, drink, talk, laugh, and have a great time, for an hour and a half, but be sure to put their masks back on, before they went back outside again.
This is a truly fantastic conversation to have over in a different thread :)
Not epic. But I'm well established... I was working seasonal for mndot and I had enough of their childish covid daily pre screens and covid authoritarian rules. One day the boss (which is a good guy) said the pencil pushes have a new rule that we have to wear a mask now when we go into gas stations. I quit the next day. That was about 1 year ago.
Cool story bro. You sure showed them with their perfectly reasonable requests during the worst respiratory pandemic in a century. /s
By December, 2021, everyone who wanted to be was already double, maybe triple, vaxxed. So, no, it wasn't "perfectly reasonable" for an employer to require workers to put on masks in order to pump gas. Most employees didn't have the ability to push back against unreasonable government mandates. Glad @CurledMoss had the means to tell those whiny fuckers, FU!
Perhaps you don’t remember that December 2021 was the height of the Omicron wave? You know, the variant that started infecting people again despite vaccination status?
And when it’s characterized as “just pumping gas” it sounds reasonable, but my bet is the the rule was “mask when interacting with others” because that’s what it was at my government org.
Perhaps you're the one not remembering that almost EVERYONE got sick from Omicron last winter. Friends who religiously wore masks everywhere, as well as people we know who never wore masks anywhere, almost all of them got sick from Omicron. In January 2022, at the peak of the Omicron surge, it was Restaurant Week in Center City Philadelphia. Every. single. night. we were out eating and drinking in jam-packed restaurants. It was hilarious watching the posers come in wearing their masks from the hostess stand to their tables. Then, they'd take their masks off, so they could eat, drink, talk, laugh, and have a great time, for an hour and a half, but be sure to put their masks back on, before they went back outside again.
I still haven't had Covid. But I wear my N95 mask 100% of the time I am in a building, I do not take it off at all, I don't eat in restaurants. With more cases and particles lasting longer in cold air, and our nose's immune response being much less in cold air, I am now wearing my mask between the car and the building.
I've read that roughly 15 minutes of exposure is the tipping point for infection. Of course this is a rough estimate, since it doesn't account for how many viral particles are actually in the air. But over an hour of exposure? Hah.
At least you're being consistent. I totally respect mandates requiring employers and businesses to allow anyone who wants to, to mask up, wfh, or whatever, if they perceive themselves to be at high risk. The rest of us, who aren't high risk, should be allowed to live our lives as we feel comfortable, imho.
the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'
The plural of anecdote is data.
This. Akin to saying "we should respect the rights of the concerned to drive sober if they perceive themselves to be at high risk of crashing." The risk to be considered is that posed to everyone in the public space, not just one given "driver." If you have no choice (economic or otherwise) but to be on the road with drivers who are each permitted to decide if sobriety is right for them, the fact that you can wear a seat belt to reduce your odds of death & the severity of your injuries (like a vaccine providing improved but less than sterilizing immunity) is a cold comfort.At least you're being consistent. I totally respect mandates requiring employers and businesses to allow anyone who wants to, to mask up, wfh, or whatever, if they perceive themselves to be at high risk. The rest of us, who aren't high risk, should be allowed to live our lives as we feel comfortable, imho.
*scratches head*
You are ok with a mandate to allow people to wear personal protective equipment that doesn't affect anyone else?
That's....I just don't even know how to describe it, it's such a mind boggling thing to say because it's so basic.
Should we pass a law that allows people to wear glasses if they want/need for health reasons?
For that same reason I want to give a little credit, because work from home was also included in the above suggested list - most societies haven't even come close; the Netherlands is the only place I've heard of introducing legislation to allow it when it's feasible for a given role. It'd be good for everyone to have the option: it would reduce road congestion & attendant aggravation, oil consumption from both redundant transport & pointless idling in traffic, parents passing along everything their kids pick up at school.
[Snip]
I do think it's a very good thing - for the individual & for society as a whole - that someone who doesn't see a point in masking in public during an uncontained respiratory pandemic could simply quit their job & remove themselves from a group who set a requirement to mask in public. There's no one who does not benefit from that state of affairs & the outcome. I frankly wish everyone society-wide could be given that power.
Shane may have had in mind the batshitcrazy proposals in some parts of the USA to pass laws which would have required schools and businesses to stop people from wearing masks.For that same reason I want to give a little credit, because work from home was also included in the above suggested list - most societies haven't even come close; the Netherlands is the only place I've heard of introducing legislation to allow it when it's feasible for a given role. It'd be good for everyone to have the option: it would reduce road congestion & attendant aggravation, oil consumption from both redundant transport & pointless idling in traffic, parents passing along everything their kids pick up at school.
[Snip]
I do think it's a very good thing - for the individual & for society as a whole - that someone who doesn't see a point in masking in public during an uncontained respiratory pandemic could simply quit their job & remove themselves from a group who set a requirement to mask in public. There's no one who does not benefit from that state of affairs & the outcome. I frankly wish everyone society-wide could be given that power.
I'm not sure if Shane meant individuals who want to WFH (in which case I agree with you) or companies who want to allow their people to WFH (which is how I thought he meant it, and I see as falling under the PPE/driving sober/wearing eyeglasses categories of "of course...").
Strong agree to your last point though.
As I said above, I support mandates requiring employers to respect employees' personal choices. If an employee doesn't feel comfortable working without a mask, employers shouldn't be allowed to fire him because of it.
As I said above, I support mandates requiring employers to respect employees' personal choices. If an employee doesn't feel comfortable working without a mask, employers shouldn't be allowed to fire him because of it.
Do you think doctors and nurses in the operating room should be able to choose whether they have to mask? And why?
Why?
As I said above, I support mandates requiring employers to respect employees' personal choices. If an employee doesn't feel comfortable working without a mask, employers shouldn't be allowed to fire him because of it.
Do you think doctors and nurses in the operating room should be able to choose whether they have to mask? And why?
Of course surgeons should be required to wear masks while performing surgery. Should surgeons be required to wear masks while sitting at a desk, working on a laptop? No, of course not. The choice should be up to the individual.
Why?
As I said above, I support mandates requiring employers to respect employees' personal choices. If an employee doesn't feel comfortable working without a mask, employers shouldn't be allowed to fire him because of it.
Do you think doctors and nurses in the operating room should be able to choose whether they have to mask? And why?
Of course surgeons should be required to wear masks while performing surgery. Should surgeons be required to wear masks while sitting at a desk, working on a laptop? No, of course not. The choice should be up to the individual.
What's your argument to say it's not ok to kill a patient on the table, but ok to kill him in the explanation 2 hours earlier?
Can we take the asinine mask bickering to the Off topic forum for those who want to see that?
Can we take the asinine mask bickering to the Off topic forum for those who want to see that?
Yes! I feel like taking a rash action just to get this topic back on subject. Let me think of something bothering me at work.
Perhaps you're the one not remembering that almost EVERYONE got sick from Omicron last winter.Sorry to add more fluff, but this is technically not true. By April 2022, 60% of all Americans had been infected with COVID. Calculating what percentage of that is Omicron...I dunno, but it's definitely not almost everyone...
Can we take the asinine mask bickering to the Off topic forum for those who want to see that?
Yes! I feel like taking a rash action just to get this topic back on subject. Let me think of something bothering me at work.
Is it an Epic FU to ignore recruiting emails that want to hire me at this great salary, which is a full >$40k less than I currently make? Usually recruiting emails don't include salary.Can we take the asinine mask bickering to the Off topic forum for those who want to see that?
Yes! I feel like taking a rash action just to get this topic back on subject. Let me think of something bothering me at work.
If you did an Epic FU to just get us back on topic, that would probably top my list of Epic FU's ever :)
Lol yeah. I got a recruiter email breathlessly quoting a salary that is less than 40% of what I make now. I kindly explained how far off base he was, and he hit me with "is there anyone in your network you'd recommend to me [now that you know I have terrible judgment and no idea what you do]?"
Perhaps @fuzzy math has an update for us which would get this thread back on topic.
Perhaps @fuzzy math has an update for us which would get this thread back on topic.
Things are still in flux but my 2 coworkers may not sign on with the contractor. And we found out that the one contract that our hospital covers elsewhere, their contract doesn't allow subcontractors. So my hospital is officially defaulting on that contract LOL. I have a feeling someone's going to get sued, maybe multiple people and this contractor might end up backing out.
Its going to be a nail biter until the bitter end. I'm at least able to laugh over the ridiculousness of it all.
I have one of those employers where they announced a company policy that those wishing to wear masks would be allowed to continue. (Every rule is a response to precedent: we had harassment directed at those using PPE.)
Not especially epic, but I used my FU position to indicate that despite our "generous policy accommodations" allowing masks, I would not be returning to in-person work (though there was an expectation we do so.)
No one should need to share medical information as to whether they are high risk or have FU money to insist on doing the exact same work remotely in this day & age. The employer gets another available desk, the risk of employees taking sick days or increasing the company's insurance premiums is decreased with fewer in-person carriers, there's one fewer car ahead of everyone at each stop sign & on the road burning gas in general.
But it took FU money for me to make that happen, which is the point. Everyone should have this sort of negotiation & veto power over the inertia of thoughtless precedent to improve the state of their lives & the world.
I have one of those employers where they announced a company policy that those wishing to wear masks would be allowed to continue. (Every rule is a response to precedent: we had harassment directed at those using PPE.)
Not especially epic, but I used my FU position to indicate that despite our "generous policy accommodations" allowing masks, I would not be returning to in-person work (though there was an expectation we do so.)
No one should need to share medical information as to whether they are high risk or have FU money to insist on doing the exact same work remotely in this day & age. The employer gets another available desk, the risk of employees taking sick days or increasing the company's insurance premiums is decreased with fewer in-person carriers, there's one fewer car ahead of everyone at each stop sign & on the road burning gas in general.
But it took FU money for me to make that happen, which is the point. Everyone should have this sort of negotiation & veto power over the inertia of thoughtless precedent to improve the state of their lives & the world.
Totally agree. Since long before MMM, I always tried to save at least 50% of whatever I earned. Having significant savings has, multiple times, given me the confidence to push back against unreasonable employer demands. Workers shouldn't *have* to have FU money in order to be treated decently, but given that not all employers do the right thing voluntarily, and the US Department of Labor can't always be counted on to enforce workers' rights (usually because of budget cuts by GOP politicians), I can't imagine not at least trying to build up as much FU money as possible. Aside from the obvious benefit of more leverage when negotiating with employers, not having to borrow to pay totally predictable expenses, such as a new roof on the house or a new transmission in the family car, seems like another good reason everyone should save and invest as much as they possibly can.
Lol yeah. I got a recruiter email breathlessly quoting a salary that is less than 40% of what I make now. I kindly explained how far off base he was, and he hit me with "is there anyone in your network you'd recommend to me [now that you know I have terrible judgment and no idea what you do]?"
"candidates must understand that this position has no salary or other compensation associated with it."holy shit!
Lol yeah. I got a recruiter email breathlessly quoting a salary that is less than 40% of what I make now. I kindly explained how far off base he was, and he hit me with "is there anyone in your network you'd recommend to me [now that you know I have terrible judgment and no idea what you do]?"
QuotePerhaps you're the one not remembering that almost EVERYONE got sick from Omicron last winter.Sorry to add more fluff, but this is technically not true. By April 2022, 60% of all Americans had been infected with COVID. Calculating what percentage of that is Omicron...I dunno, but it's definitely not almost everyone...
(I got Omicron in July, as did my teen, and my DH and smaller child have still not had it.)
I've been noticing that a bunch of retail stores in my area are having trouble keeping shelves stocked and arranged neatly. While there may be supply chain issues for some of it, I suspect that it has more to do with people not willing to work retail jobs for what they pay anymore.
All of these places are advertising that they are hiring boldly with large signage around the entrance and exit doors, and it's been like this for the last few years, but it has definitely gotten worse.
I guess more people have FU money than we think! Or working in retail is just that miserable . . . probably some of both.
I've been noticing that a bunch of retail stores in my area are having trouble keeping shelves stocked and arranged neatly. While there may be supply chain issues for some of it, I suspect that it has more to do with people not willing to work retail jobs for what they pay anymore.
All of these places are advertising that they are hiring boldly with large signage around the entrance and exit doors, and it's been like this for the last few years, but it has definitely gotten worse.
I guess more people have FU money than we think! Or working in retail is just that miserable . . . probably some of both.
I've been noticing that a bunch of retail stores in my area are having trouble keeping shelves stocked and arranged neatly. While there may be supply chain issues for some of it, I suspect that it has more to do with people not willing to work retail jobs for what they pay anymore.
All of these places are advertising that they are hiring boldly with large signage around the entrance and exit doors, and it's been like this for the last few years, but it has definitely gotten worse.
I guess more people have FU money than we think! Or working in retail is just that miserable . . . probably some of both.
QuotePerhaps you're the one not remembering that almost EVERYONE got sick from Omicron last winter.Sorry to add more fluff, but this is technically not true. By April 2022, 60% of all Americans had been infected with COVID. Calculating what percentage of that is Omicron...I dunno, but it's definitely not almost everyone...
(I got Omicron in July, as did my teen, and my DH and smaller child have still not had it.)
Where did you get that 60% number, I had no idea it was that high. If it is really that high we should have just for got about all restrictions, job losses, and economic slow down and just let the another 10% or 20% get it. I believe there would be a percentage of the population that would never get it.
Edit, I went looking for articles, the numbers are all over, here's one that bounces a lot.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20220802/havent-had-covid-yet-wanna-bet
I do feel like there's more of an FU attitude out there in general, regardless of whether folks have the money or not. Maybe part of it is that some people had to deal with lost or deferred income for months during the shutdown, and found out that they could survive it better than they expected?I've been noticing that a bunch of retail stores in my area are having trouble keeping shelves stocked and arranged neatly. While there may be supply chain issues for some of it, I suspect that it has more to do with people not willing to work retail jobs for what they pay anymore.
All of these places are advertising that they are hiring boldly with large signage around the entrance and exit doors, and it's been like this for the last few years, but it has definitely gotten worse.
I guess more people have FU money than we think! Or working in retail is just that miserable . . . probably some of both.
I've been asking cashiers how much the store pays. A year ago I was getting most answers around $10-12 per hour, now its more like $15 per hour. Which is an improvement, but not good enough. I also notice that the places that don't seem to be short staffed are generally the ones who are paying $18-20+ per hour.
I've also identified a couple stores that apparently have incompetent or abusive management.
Ooh, that's an interesting idea.I do feel like there's more of an FU attitude out there in general, regardless of whether folks have the money or not. Maybe part of it is that some people had to deal with lost or deferred income for months during the shutdown, and found out that they could survive it better than they expected?I've been noticing that a bunch of retail stores in my area are having trouble keeping shelves stocked and arranged neatly. While there may be supply chain issues for some of it, I suspect that it has more to do with people not willing to work retail jobs for what they pay anymore.
All of these places are advertising that they are hiring boldly with large signage around the entrance and exit doors, and it's been like this for the last few years, but it has definitely gotten worse.
I guess more people have FU money than we think! Or working in retail is just that miserable . . . probably some of both.
I've been asking cashiers how much the store pays. A year ago I was getting most answers around $10-12 per hour, now its more like $15 per hour. Which is an improvement, but not good enough. I also notice that the places that don't seem to be short staffed are generally the ones who are paying $18-20+ per hour.
I've also identified a couple stores that apparently have incompetent or abusive management.
My thinking, there has there is a large attitude shift regarding work, combined with government and parent money to aiding financial survival.
I've been noticing that a bunch of retail stores in my area are having trouble keeping shelves stocked and arranged neatly. While there may be supply chain issues for some of it, I suspect that it has more to do with people not willing to work retail jobs for what they pay anymore.- A grocery checker here makes about $35k a year, but rent on a 1 BR apartment is $2900/month. That math...doesn't work out.
All of these places are advertising that they are hiring boldly with large signage around the entrance and exit doors, and it's been like this for the last few years, but it has definitely gotten worse.
I guess more people have FU money than we think! Or working in retail is just that miserable . . . probably some of both.
You haven't seen the data because there really isn't any. It's just a boomer thing to say that "nobody wants to work anymore".My thinking, there has there is a large attitude shift regarding work, combined with government and parent money to aiding financial survival.
People keep blaming too much unemployment/welfare for 'no one wants to work anymore', but I have yet to see any data on that. Unemployment rate right now isn't even high, so where are all these people sitting around collecting all this government money? Or maybe the ongoing retiring of the baby boomers is doing exactly what everyone new it always would and create a lot of unfilled jobs and the people in retail are able to move up as everyone else moves up to fill the gaps?
My thinking, there has there is a large attitude shift regarding work, combined with government and parent money to aiding financial survival.
People keep blaming too much unemployment/welfare for 'no one wants to work anymore', but I have yet to see any data on that. Unemployment rate right now isn't even high, so where are all these people sitting around collecting all this government money? Or maybe the ongoing retiring of the baby boomers is doing exactly what everyone new it always would and create a lot of unfilled jobs and the people in retail are able to move up as everyone else moves up to fill the gaps?
I came across an interesting tool today, which helps visualize various welfare benefits as a function of earned income. It lets you drill down all the way down to the county level, and view how much a person can receive from each of many programs. It's really interesting to play around with: https://emar-data-tools.shinyapps.io/prd_dashboard/ (https://emar-data-tools.shinyapps.io/prd_dashboard/)My thinking, there has there is a large attitude shift regarding work, combined with government and parent money to aiding financial survival.
People keep blaming too much unemployment/welfare for 'no one wants to work anymore', but I have yet to see any data on that. Unemployment rate right now isn't even high, so where are all these people sitting around collecting all this government money? Or maybe the ongoing retiring of the baby boomers is doing exactly what everyone new it always would and create a lot of unfilled jobs and the people in retail are able to move up as everyone else moves up to fill the gaps?
I run around in business circles with many senior executives, though my role is a little different. It’s always fascinating to hear the emphasis on free markets and unfettered capitalism while also hearing the woe-is-me response about lack of labor. So many business models are built on the assumption of a plentiful, cheap supply of labor. When the supply isn’t there, or perhaps the labor is available but just not interested in working at the offered wage, the business leaders’ response is that “people just don’t want to work anymore”. Um, no, people don’t want to sell you what they have (labor) for the price you are offering (wage). That’s capitalism for you. Welcome to seeing that it works the other way around, too.It goes beyond whether employees (or potential) employees will apply for a job and consistently come to work. It's about performance, too. In his experience, there is little correlation between an employee's compensation and their productivity. Crudely stated, giving someone a raise doesn't impact their performance. That said, rewarding more productive employees *does* improve retention.
I've been noticing that a bunch of retail stores in my area are having trouble keeping shelves stocked and arranged neatly. While there may be supply chain issues for some of it, I suspect that it has more to do with people not willing to work retail jobs for what they pay anymore.
All of these places are advertising that they are hiring boldly with large signage around the entrance and exit doors, and it's been like this for the last few years, but it has definitely gotten worse.
I guess more people have FU money than we think! Or working in retail is just that miserable . . . probably some of both.
I've been asking cashiers how much the store pays. A year ago I was getting most answers around $10-12 per hour, now its more like $15 per hour. Which is an improvement, but not good enough. I also notice that the places that don't seem to be short staffed are generally the ones who are paying $18-20+ per hour.
I've also identified a couple stores that apparently have incompetent or abusive management.
It's just a continuation of Reagan'sMy thinking, there has there is a large attitude shift regarding work, combined with government and parent money to aiding financial survival.
People keep blaming too much unemployment/welfare for 'no one wants to work anymore', but I have yet to see any data on that. Unemployment rate right now isn't even high, so where are all these people sitting around collecting all this government money? Or maybe the ongoing retiring of the baby boomers is doing exactly what everyone new it always would and create a lot of unfilled jobs and the people in retail are able to move up as everyone else moves up to fill the gaps?
I came across an interesting tool today, which helps visualize various welfare benefits as a function of earned income. It lets you drill down all the way down to the county level, and view how much a person can receive from each of many programs. It's really interesting to play around with: https://emar-data-tools.shinyapps.io/prd_dashboard/ (https://emar-data-tools.shinyapps.io/prd_dashboard/)My thinking, there has there is a large attitude shift regarding work, combined with government and parent money to aiding financial survival.
People keep blaming too much unemployment/welfare for 'no one wants to work anymore', but I have yet to see any data on that. Unemployment rate right now isn't even high, so where are all these people sitting around collecting all this government money? Or maybe the ongoing retiring of the baby boomers is doing exactly what everyone new it always would and create a lot of unfilled jobs and the people in retail are able to move up as everyone else moves up to fill the gaps?
One thing that strikes me, however: I put in a 25-year-old single parent with two kids under 5, and based on the charts, it looks like the model assumes a $75k/year spend for such a family. Curious, I poked around a bit more, and it looks like it assumes about $26k of expenses for a single person, $55k for a single person with one young child, and $106k (!) for the same single parent with three kids. I don't know how the model sources those spending numbers, so I'd take those with a massive block of salt.I run around in business circles with many senior executives, though my role is a little different. It’s always fascinating to hear the emphasis on free markets and unfettered capitalism while also hearing the woe-is-me response about lack of labor. So many business models are built on the assumption of a plentiful, cheap supply of labor. When the supply isn’t there, or perhaps the labor is available but just not interested in working at the offered wage, the business leaders’ response is that “people just don’t want to work anymore”. Um, no, people don’t want to sell you what they have (labor) for the price you are offering (wage). That’s capitalism for you. Welcome to seeing that it works the other way around, too.It goes beyond whether employees (or potential) employees will apply for a job and consistently come to work. It's about performance, too. In his experience, there is little correlation between an employee's compensation and their productivity. Crudely stated, giving someone a raise doesn't impact their performance. That said, rewarding more productive employees *does* improve retention.
Both sides have to keep in mind that there is competition. For the low-skilled employee, it's not just competition with other employees. The employer's money can also be spent on automation, or on re-engineering a product to require less labor to produce. And the same goes for the employer--the employee's time could be alternatively spent going to school, or getting a more desirable job, or staying home and collecting various welfare benefits.
My thinking, there has there is a large attitude shift regarding work, combined with government and parent money to aiding financial survival.
People keep blaming too much unemployment/welfare for 'no one wants to work anymore', but I have yet to see any data on that. Unemployment rate right now isn't even high, so where are all these people sitting around collecting all this government money? Or maybe the ongoing retiring of the baby boomers is doing exactly what everyone new it always would and create a lot of unfilled jobs and the people in retail are able to move up as everyone else moves up to fill the gaps?
Several months ago, I saw a statistic that there are roughly 5-6 million fewer people in the workforce than pre-covid. About a third of them were people who simply accelerated their retirement by a few years. Assuming a 160-million-person workforce and an average 40-year career, you'd expect about 4 million people to retire each year and 4 million to join the workforce. So, about six months' worth of retirees retired early. That's a pretty substantial impact, and it'll take a few years to settle out.
I've also heard anecdotally that a lot of school teachers made an exit during COVID. I can't imagine wanting to continue teaching if I were in the position many of them faced during that time...
There's a lot on conflicting, nonsensical, and unsubstantiated causation claims (like saying everyone is retiring early because of the average $25k in covid benefits, which took them from broke to able to retire?), but my take-away is basically the above, which was my original point.$25k in COVID benefits as an average? I didn't see anywhere near that much, even at the family level.
I think you may have missed my meaning. The 5-6 million includes all demographics, while the unexpectedly-early retirees numbered 2 million. So an extra six months' worth.Several months ago, I saw a statistic that there are roughly 5-6 million fewer people in the workforce than pre-covid. About a third of them were people who simply accelerated their retirement by a few years. Assuming a 160-million-person workforce and an average 40-year career, you'd expect about 4 million people to retire each year and 4 million to join the workforce. So, about six months' worth of retirees retired early. That's a pretty substantial impact, and it'll take a few years to settle out.
I've also heard anecdotally that a lot of school teachers made an exit during COVID. I can't imagine wanting to continue teaching if I were in the position many of them faced during that time...
1/2 of 4 million is 2 million, not 5-6. I think you mean 18 month's worth of people retiring early, on top of the 4 million who normally leave and 4 million who normally enter.
I think you may have missed my meaning. The 5-6 million includes all demographics, while the unexpectedly-early retirees numbered 2 million. So an extra six months' worth.Several months ago, I saw a statistic that there are roughly 5-6 million fewer people in the workforce than pre-covid. About a third of them were people who simply accelerated their retirement by a few years. Assuming a 160-million-person workforce and an average 40-year career, you'd expect about 4 million people to retire each year and 4 million to join the workforce. So, about six months' worth of retirees retired early. That's a pretty substantial impact, and it'll take a few years to settle out.
I've also heard anecdotally that a lot of school teachers made an exit during COVID. I can't imagine wanting to continue teaching if I were in the position many of them faced during that time...
1/2 of 4 million is 2 million, not 5-6. I think you mean 18 month's worth of people retiring early, on top of the 4 million who normally leave and 4 million who normally enter.
Yes, the statistics are that we have 5-6 million fewer workers than we would expect to see. Of those 5-6 million, 2 million are people who were close to retiring pre-covid, and chose to accelerate their retirement by a few years. The other 4 million were from younger demographics.I think you may have missed my meaning. The 5-6 million includes all demographics, while the unexpectedly-early retirees numbered 2 million. So an extra six months' worth.Several months ago, I saw a statistic that there are roughly 5-6 million fewer people in the workforce than pre-covid. About a third of them were people who simply accelerated their retirement by a few years. Assuming a 160-million-person workforce and an average 40-year career, you'd expect about 4 million people to retire each year and 4 million to join the workforce. So, about six months' worth of retirees retired early. That's a pretty substantial impact, and it'll take a few years to settle out.
I've also heard anecdotally that a lot of school teachers made an exit during COVID. I can't imagine wanting to continue teaching if I were in the position many of them faced during that time...
1/2 of 4 million is 2 million, not 5-6. I think you mean 18 month's worth of people retiring early, on top of the 4 million who normally leave and 4 million who normally enter.
If 4 million usually leave and 4 million usually enter, that's a net change of 0.
If we're 6 million down, that means an additional 6 million left, or 2 million left and 4 million didn't enter, so somewhere between those two.
Yes, the statistics are that we have 5-6 million fewer workers than we would expect to see. Of those 5-6 million, 2 million are people who were close to retiring pre-covid, and chose to accelerate their retirement by a few years. The other 4 million were from younger demographics.I think you may have missed my meaning. The 5-6 million includes all demographics, while the unexpectedly-early retirees numbered 2 million. So an extra six months' worth.Several months ago, I saw a statistic that there are roughly 5-6 million fewer people in the workforce than pre-covid. About a third of them were people who simply accelerated their retirement by a few years. Assuming a 160-million-person workforce and an average 40-year career, you'd expect about 4 million people to retire each year and 4 million to join the workforce. So, about six months' worth of retirees retired early. That's a pretty substantial impact, and it'll take a few years to settle out.
I've also heard anecdotally that a lot of school teachers made an exit during COVID. I can't imagine wanting to continue teaching if I were in the position many of them faced during that time...
1/2 of 4 million is 2 million, not 5-6. I think you mean 18 month's worth of people retiring early, on top of the 4 million who normally leave and 4 million who normally enter.
If 4 million usually leave and 4 million usually enter, that's a net change of 0.
If we're 6 million down, that means an additional 6 million left, or 2 million left and 4 million didn't enter, so somewhere between those two.
BAM!
https://gizmodo.com/facebook-meta-vr-john-carmack-metaverse-oculus-1849909943
John, I'm guessing you are probably way to busy/efficient to be hanging out with the likes of us, but if you do happen to be lurking here thank you for such a great Epic FU story. Anybody who walks out on Zuckerberg is a winner in my book....
BAM!
https://gizmodo.com/facebook-meta-vr-john-carmack-metaverse-oculus-1849909943
John, I'm guessing you are probably way to busy/efficient to be hanging out with the likes of us, but if you do happen to be lurking here thank you for such a great Epic FU story. Anybody who walks out on Zuckerberg is a winner in my book....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64083802
Many UK over 50's have said FU, so much so that the govt is trying to get them back to work...
The following Monday, two weeks before my outage schedule was supposed to start, I gave my supervisor two weeks’ notice. My exact words were "I found a way to make it work". His face just dropped and I could tell he was pissed but he didn't really say much. He had my job posted internally the next day, trying to get someone to fill the position before the outage.
...
Now, my work life balance is so much better, I'm closer to family, and I'm getting better compensation. I just got an email a couple weeks back that they posted my old position externally and the salary range on indeed/glassdoor was about $30K less than I was making. Yea, good luck with that.
...
In the end my FU money bought me the confidence to look for a new job even if the pay was lower and it bought me a glorious month off of work to focus on time with my babies/moving and I couldn't be happier.
It will be interesting to see what kind of "solutions" the UK government comes up with to get those more experienced workers "out of" their early retirement and back into jobs. They could cut retirement benefits, of course, but then they might find themselves voted out of a job. Because old people vote.I think that first, you have to define the "problem" you're trying to solve. "Fewer people are working" is not, in itself, a problem. "Able-bodied people living on government benefits instead of working" can be a problem. "Prices rising faster than wages" can definitely be a problem. "Retirees who can no longer work can't afford the cost of living increases" is a problem. But "early retirees have to cut back on spending because prices are rising" isn't.
I don't want to derail the thread, but allowing a bit more legal immigration of people who want to work is one pathway for curing a shortage of workers. Plenty of people seem to want to immigrate to Europe, and most of those people don't have FU money. Currently Australia goes this route with their system for earning citizenship aimed at immigration of younger people (of any skill level) and skilled workers in critical sectors. Aussies please feel welcome to chime in.
It will be interesting to see what kind of "solutions" the UK government comes up with to get those more experienced workers "out of" their early retirement and back into jobs. They could cut retirement benefits, of course, but then they might find themselves voted out of a job. Because old people vote.
I don't want to derail the thread, but allowing a bit more legal immigration of people who want to work is one pathway for curing a shortage of workers. Plenty of people seem to want to immigrate to Europe, and most of those people don't have FU money. Currently Australia goes this route with their system for earning citizenship aimed at immigration of younger people (of any skill level) and skilled workers in critical sectors. Aussies please feel welcome to chime in.
It will be interesting to see what kind of "solutions" the UK government comes up with to get those more experienced workers "out of" their early retirement and back into jobs. They could cut retirement benefits, of course, but then they might find themselves voted out of a job. Because old people vote.
I don't want to derail the thread, but allowing a bit more legal immigration of people who want to work is one pathway for curing a shortage of workers. Plenty of people seem to want to immigrate to Europe, and most of those people don't have FU money. Currently Australia goes this route with their system for earning citizenship aimed at immigration of younger people (of any skill level) and skilled workers in critical sectors. Aussies please feel welcome to chime in.
Best as I can tell so far the answer is inflate the prices of consumer goods and deflate asset prices until people feel the need to go back to work. Which is where an FU mindset will come in handier than the money itself. Mustacians willing to cut back on their spending may be able to stay retired in cases where a people who just suddenly felt really rich after the last couple of years won't. It remains to be seen how that shakes out in my own life.
My recent less than epic tale but still import reason to have FU money: I lost my father two months ago and I'm so thankful I could make the time needed to deal with it without fear overdue bills. As difficult as it has been, it would been much worse without FU money or at least an emergency fund.
It will be interesting to see what kind of "solutions" the UK government comes up with to get those more experienced workers "out of" their early retirement and back into jobs. They could cut retirement benefits, of course, but then they might find themselves voted out of a job. Because old people vote.
I don't want to derail the thread, but allowing a bit more legal immigration of people who want to work is one pathway for curing a shortage of workers. Plenty of people seem to want to immigrate to Europe, and most of those people don't have FU money. Currently Australia goes this route with their system for earning citizenship aimed at immigration of younger people (of any skill level) and skilled workers in critical sectors. Aussies please feel welcome to chime in.
Best as I can tell so far the answer is inflate the prices of consumer goods and deflate asset prices until people feel the need to go back to work. Which is where an FU mindset will come in handier than the money itself. Mustacians willing to cut back on their spending may be able to stay retired in cases where a people who just suddenly felt really rich after the last couple of years won't. It remains to be seen how that shakes out in my own life.
My recent less than epic tale but still import reason to have FU money: I lost my father two months ago and I'm so thankful I could make the time needed to deal with it without fear overdue bills. As difficult as it has been, it would been much worse without FU money or at least an emergency fund.
My condolences about your father's passing, @Alternatepriorities. Making time to deal with that sounds epic enough for me.
Her: The CEO is willing to raise your salary, but first he wants to negotiate you coming back into the office.
Me: What? Doesn't he realize this other position is fully remote?
Her: Yes, but he says the company has been generous with working with you on being remote and now you will need a doctor's note to remain such.
Me: Generous!? There was a global pandemic! It wasn't some sort of favor to me, it was what the company HAD to do because of COVID-19. I'm glad they finally did it, but I had to beg because I was so scared I was going to kill my partner.
Her: Yes, but some people remained in the office this whole time--
Me: That's not my problem. They were not taking it seriously and there were no rules implemented by the company regarding masks, social distancing, etc. Them staying in the office made me realize I had to remain staying home because I knew they weren't being safe.
Her: That's why he says it's generous he has let you stay home for this long.
Me: I've also proven that I am more effective in a remote position. It has been a net positive for the company as a whole.
Her: I understand....
Me: I don't care if you give me a salary increase, this is about respect. I was on the fence about this new position but now I see that I have to take it. Consider this my official notice: I quit.
She took the new job, and her old employer is utterly unable to replace her. They've been pathetically begging her to come back, and she's laughed in their faces every time. Justice!I hope she used the "I was reborn as the villain in an otome game" evil laugh. (If you don't know, it's like this 1:24 https://youtu.be/A2XvF5vzkM4?t=83 )
Hamefura, nice. It's amazing that "reborn as the villainess" has become its own subgenre.She took the new job, and her old employer is utterly unable to replace her. They've been pathetically begging her to come back, and she's laughed in their faces every time. Justice!I hope she used the "I was reborn as the villain in an otome game" evil laugh. (If you don't know, it's like this 1:24 https://youtu.be/A2XvF5vzkM4?t=83 )
I wish there would be a story where the reborn is just a minor side character and has to somehow solve all the trouble and make everyone happy without getting killed themselves as "another girl found dead".Hamefura, nice. It's amazing that "reborn as the villainess" has become its own subgenre.She took the new job, and her old employer is utterly unable to replace her. They've been pathetically begging her to come back, and she's laughed in their faces every time. Justice!I hope she used the "I was reborn as the villain in an otome game" evil laugh. (If you don't know, it's like this 1:24 https://youtu.be/A2XvF5vzkM4?t=83 )
She took the new job, and her old employer is utterly unable to replace her. They've been pathetically begging her to come back, and she's laughed in their faces every time. Justice!
BAM!
https://gizmodo.com/facebook-meta-vr-john-carmack-metaverse-oculus-1849909943
John, I'm guessing you are probably way to busy/efficient to be hanging out with the likes of us, but if you do happen to be lurking here thank you for such a great Epic FU story. Anybody who walks out on Zuckerberg is a winner in my book....
OMG the followup has been CRAZYShe took the new job, and her old employer is utterly unable to replace her. They've been pathetically begging her to come back, and she's laughed in their faces every time. Justice!I hope she used the "I was reborn as the villain in an otome game" evil laugh. (If you don't know, it's like this 1:24 https://youtu.be/A2XvF5vzkM4?t=83 )
I had in my mind the wrong definition of "FU money" cause what came to my mind was my buddy that's CEO in debt consolidation moving his 70ft yacht from Newport Beach where he owns a $19M Newport Coast mansion to his $25M waterfront Venetian Islands Miami mansion, only to pay several thousand a month to dock it away from his house and pay for a captain to bring it to his house slip whenever he wants to use it instead of just docking it there regularly- just so there's less obstruction to his water view
I had in my mind the wrong definition of "FU money" cause what came to my mind was my buddy that's CEO in debt consolidation moving his 70ft yacht from Newport Beach where he owns a $19M Newport Coast mansion to his $25M waterfront Venetian Islands Miami mansion, only to pay several thousand a month to dock it away from his house and pay for a captain to bring it to his house slip whenever he wants to use it instead of just docking it there regularly- just so there's less obstruction to his water view
That's an entirely different world than mine...
Maybe we need a thread for "F them" money stories... Something to mock that amount of shear waste just for the flexing of status.
I had in my mind the wrong definition of "FU money" cause what came to my mind was my buddy that's CEO in debt consolidation moving his 70ft yacht from Newport Beach where he owns a $19M Newport Coast mansion to his $25M waterfront Venetian Islands Miami mansion, only to pay several thousand a month to dock it away from his house and pay for a captain to bring it to his house slip whenever he wants to use it instead of just docking it there regularly- just so there's less obstruction to his water viewThat's a pretty insane level of hedonic adaptation.
Well I might have a new contribution in a few days...
I just sent the following proposed response to DW after she shared the contract her district offered this year. She likes her work a lot so she might not pass it on but she isn't going to accept the contract as is either...
Dr. JJ,
I've reviewed the admin contract offered to (DH) on Jan 30th 2023. It appears SD is offering her a pay CUT of approximately 6 percent after adjusting for national inflation in 2022 or 16 percent accounting for local inflation. I understand similar offers have been given to other SD administrative staff. This suggests two possibilities, either SD thinks so poorly of their administrators as to assume they won't do basic arithmetic or the district's finances are in truly dire conditions despite record enrollment the last couple of years. Reducing the contract review time from the traditional month to a single week suggests it's the former, but I'll generously assume it is the second and propose a possible solution. DW will resign and the district will have those funds to provide additional raises for the remaining administrators.
Alternate Priorities
- (DW)'s financial advisor, husband, and future partner in geographic arbitrage.
ETA: It's not really about the money at this point as we're able to FIRE at a median income level. It's mostly about the way they've jerked the staff around on this the past two years. The reduction in contract review time this year from one month to "five days or resign" is especially galling and just feels wrong to me.
@StPatrick - brilliant. Way to go.
My boss called me and asked repeatedly over the two weeks for me to stay, trying to find some way to make this situation work. "The product won't be able to work without your understanding of the data."
Well I might have a new contribution in a few days...
I just sent the following proposed response to DW after she shared the contract her district offered this year. She likes her work a lot so she might not pass it on but she isn't going to accept the contract as is either...
Dr. JJ,
I've reviewed the admin contract offered to (DH) on Jan 30th 2023. It appears SD is offering her a pay CUT of approximately 6 percent after adjusting for national inflation in 2022 or 16 percent accounting for local inflation. I understand similar offers have been given to other SD administrative staff. This suggests two possibilities, either SD thinks so poorly of their administrators as to assume they won't do basic arithmetic or the district's finances are in truly dire conditions despite record enrollment the last couple of years. Reducing the contract review time from the traditional month to a single week suggests it's the former, but I'll generously assume it is the second and propose a possible solution. DW will resign and the district will have those funds to provide additional raises for the remaining administrators.
Alternate Priorities
- (DW)'s financial advisor, husband, and future partner in geographic arbitrage.
ETA: It's not really about the money at this point as we're able to FIRE at a median income level. It's mostly about the way they've jerked the staff around on this the past two years. The reduction in contract review time this year from one month to "five days or resign" is especially galling and just feels wrong to me.
Please keep us posted. I'm glad she's in a position to push back about it, regardless of which form that push back takes.
@StPatrick - brilliant. Way to go.
Agreed. So they threatened you with termination as a bullying tactic without any desire or intention to terminate you? Talk about shooting themselves in the foot. I probably would have recommended taking the termination and collecting unemployment pay.
Are you fully FI or just flush with FU $?
she will to resign if necessary to get them to treat the rest of the admin staff better.
If I didn't sign it within 48 hours, I would be terminated. So I signed it, and the next day, Friday, I turned in my two weeks without anything lined up.
My boss called me and asked repeatedly over the two weeks for me to stay, trying to find some way to make this situation work. "The product won't be able to work without your understanding of the data."
I guess tell HR that.
Dr. JJ,
I've reviewed the admin contract offered to (DH) on Jan 30th 2023. It appears SD is offering her a pay CUT of approximately 6 percent after adjusting for national inflation in 2022 or 16 percent accounting for local inflation. I understand similar offers have been given to other SD administrative staff. This suggests two possibilities, either SD thinks so poorly of their administrators as to assume they won't do basic arithmetic or the district's finances are in truly dire conditions despite record enrollment the last couple of years. Reducing the contract review time from the traditional month to a single week suggests it's the former, but I'll generously assume it is the second and propose a possible solution. DW will resign and the district will have those funds to provide additional raises for the remaining administrators.
Alternate Priorities
- (DW)'s financial advisor, husband, and future partner in geographic arbitrage.
ETA: It's not really about the money at this point as we're able to FIRE at a median income level. It's mostly about the way they've jerked the staff around on this the past two years. The reduction in contract review time this year from one month to "five days or resign" is especially galling and just feels wrong to me.
when I eventually quit. It will be at the "last minute", of course, because they never send me "the raise" letter or the new contract until the last minute.
^I'm probably not thinking of some obvious alternative, but I can think of one circumstance that would make this true. Congratulations!Ooh! Can't wait for the next installment.
Me too! And I still would love to see the text of the email/letter they sent.^I'm probably not thinking of some obvious alternative, but I can think of one circumstance that would make this true. Congratulations!Ooh! Can't wait for the next installment.
Good for you, @bluebelle, they count on most of us not having the patience to stick through all that. Impressive and I too hope your pain is lessened.my pain has lessened for a few reasons, not on a keyboard for WAY too many hours a day, every day, found physio and chiro that actually worked for me, found ways to do things that lessen the pain flair ups, and I go lay on a foam roller or stretch when I need to. Folding laundry still sucks, working at the kitchen sink or counter.....anything with my head down and my arms out in front of me.....
Good for you, @bluebelle, they count on most of us not having the patience to stick through all that. Impressive and I too hope your pain is lessened.my pain has lessened for a few reasons, not on a keyboard for WAY too many hours a day, every day, found physio and chiro that actually worked for me, found ways to do things that lessen the pain flair ups, and I go lay on a foam roller or stretch when I need to. Folding laundry still sucks, working at the kitchen sink or counter.....anything with my head down and my arms out in front of me.....
"which part of "I think we're finished here" was unclear? Please delete my information from your computers."SUPER badass. Well done.
Then I sent an email to my contact at the third-party company (it was a response to her "we can't change our standard contract" message) saying "I think we're finished here." When a manger got back to me (quite quickly, compared to the previous pace of responses) I got to reply with "which part of "I think we're finished here" was unclear? Please delete my information from your computers."
Then I went for a walk in the sun, which was lovely!
A very epic FU!! I love the power to just...walk away.
I am in a bit of an FU situation right now. Letting it percolate a bit more, but I will probably have a story soon either way
I have some we can share.A very epic FU!! I love the power to just...walk away.
I am in a bit of an FU situation right now. Letting it percolate a bit more, but I will probably have a story soon either way
[Looking for popcorn at 7:25 am...]
Then I went for a walk in the sun, which was lovely!
Finally, after a couple of weeks of this, I reached out to my friend and said "I'm very sorry, but I can't sign this. Here are three process problems with the company you're working with, and here are three concrete problems with the contract, if you want to go to your management and suggest they work with a different vendor." (He asked "if we get those changed, would you do the work" and I said "at this point, I don't care to work with companies that do business that way, and I'm in the incredibly fortunate position to not have to do work I don't want to do. You need to change vendors!")Well done. Providing specific feed back is also good and professional. Burdensome (in language and process) contracting is a highly efficient way to get both teaming partners and clients to stop working with your organization.
Finally, after a couple of weeks of this, I reached out to my friend and said "I'm very sorry, but I can't sign this. Here are three process problems with the company you're working with, and here are three concrete problems with the contract, if you want to go to your management and suggest they work with a different vendor." (He asked "if we get those changed, would you do the work" and I said "at this point, I don't care to work with companies that do business that way, and I'm in the incredibly fortunate position to not have to do work I don't want to do. You need to change vendors!")Well done. Providing specific feed back is also good and professional. Burdensome (in language and process) contracting is a highly efficient way to get both teaming partners and clients to stop working with your organization.
That's not a situation where you politely answer. That's a situation where you laugh loudly and stopp the connection.
That's not a situation where you politely answer. That's a situation where you laugh loudly and stopp the connection.
Yeah, I thought of that after I hung up. I was so flabbergasted that I forgot to react appropriately. :D
It's fine if you don't care about this, and it's BS, but it's true:Sadly true. A man can say something with no consequences which when said by a woman would be seen as unprofessional. Just as a man can make a one-off mistake and move on but a woman making the same mistake exposes a permanent character flaw which is never forgotten.
You will be labelled as more problematic and unprofessional if you do that fake laught followed by "no", whereas a man might completely get away with it with the other person never holding it against him.
It's fine if you don't care about this, and it's BS, but it's true:Sadly true. A man can say something with no consequences which when said by a woman would be seen as unprofessional. Just as a man can make a one-off mistake and move on but a woman making the same mistake exposes a permanent character flaw which is never forgotten.
You will be labelled as more problematic and unprofessional if you do that fake laught followed by "no", whereas a man might completely get away with it with the other person never holding it against him.
(Also true for other minorities. It's a big part of why, after decades of equalities legislation and education, it's still mainly white heterosexual men at the top of organisations.)
It seems like the decision makers in layoffs don't worry about any "collateral quitting." They probably should, because leaving a few people to hold the bag working double time when layoffs blast a big hole in the team has driven me to quit. But then I guess not enough people have FU money.
My biggest FU money work story was in some ways more subtle than Epic. As far as I know, no one in my management chain knew I was behind it.
All perfectly legal, so no worries about sharing. However, it maybe belongs in the FU Money for Good thread.
My biggest FU money work story was in some ways more subtle than Epic. As far as I know, no one in my management chain knew I was behind it.
All perfectly legal, so no worries about sharing. However, it maybe belongs in the FU Money for Good thread.
You are not allowed to tease like that, also I hearby grant permission to double post a good story :-)
The story is there, go to the other threadWhat other thread? Got a link?
Here you go:The story is there, go to the other threadWhat other thread? Got a link?
I'm proud of her too, and I don't even know her. Or you, now that you mention it. Thanks for the story.What she said!
I'm proud of her too, and I don't even know her. Or you, now that you mention it. Thanks for the story.What she said!
"DickBoss" does have a ring to it. Good for your daughter!What does this mean? I'm ten years post-FIRE - would I be able to answer this if I was still working? Asking for a friend.
I had such a boss who put not 1, not 2, but 3 new hires on PIP's in a row in our little group of ~8 people. We are highly trained professionals who work hard, so suffice it to say not a single person should have gone through that. She was super insecure and would hire a new person, then decide she didn't like them in short order, especially if they got noticed as competent by anyone outside her group. No matter how diplomatic they were, and no matter how competent or hard working they were, she'd put the new person on a PIP and fire them at the end of the PIP period. I'm not sure what she was trying to accomplish.
While I was still stuck with a dashed line reporting to her (I'm sure she would have fired me if she could have), the second guy with an active PIP responded with humor. He realized immediately his days were numbered as he'd only been there less than a year and he knew the person he replaced had gone out the "PIP then fire" way. We were at a team meeting and she instructed us to pick a "holiday movie" to watch together on the last day of work before Christmas. Without skipping a beat he replied "How about the movie Horrible Bosses?" To this day I don't know how the rest of us managed to refrain from busting out laughing, but there was a very long awkward silence following that.
Wherever he landed after she fired him, I hope he has a better boss now.
when I was a contractor, my actual manager noped her way out when they finally pushed her too far (good on her!). So the company in their wisdom gave me a manager (?) and four(!!!) indirect dash line bosses. It was a mess.Obvs. You did, but what happened next?
Then they started me training my replacement....Maybe they thought I wouldn't notice....
Here's a tiny one from today. I don't think there's any danger of getting fired over it, but being in a sound position both in our finances and my skillset gave me some extra confidence.My first impression reading this is he's trying to justify being so far away. He has to make it seem like he's on top of everything so it doesn't matter if he's not there day-to-day. Good for you for standing your ground.
I work for a small company, owned by two partners. Overall, it's been great. It's not perfect, though. Several years ago, one of the partners moved out of state. Out-of-state-partner (OOSP) loves to be in the loop on everything. So when he hears about something for the first time, for example a product design change or a change in our manufacturing procedure, he wants to know all of the details, the rationale, the impact, etc. Were he here, he'd be aware of it all, but since he's 1500 miles away, his method of finding out is...to start peppering me with questions on Slack. To be clear, he doesn't need this information. He's just satisfying his curiosity. Having an engineering background, he also feels the need to make all sorts of suggestions, never mind the fact that the engineering team has already brainstormed, researched, tested, settled on a solution, and implemented it.* He's a little bit like a seagull manager (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_management) at such times--we rarely interact until something piques his interest, at which point he pops up and wants to be involved.
The problem is that we have a lean engineering team. When OOSP moved, we were supporting a single product, and developing one new one. Now, we're supporting three product lines, and in the midst of developing seven (if my count is right), with an engineering team that is only slightly larger than before. Simply put, I don't have a half hour or an hour to explain something just to scratch his itch. FWIW, in-state partner agrees.
Up until now, I've been willing to disrupt my flow to answer him. Not today:
OOSP: <quotes a line from my email> Tell me more?
Me: I don't have time to explain it right now
OOSP: does it <more specific, detailed question>
Me: <no response>
I was *very* tempted to repeat my first response, but figured that would be a step too far in the unprofessional direction, so I chose to simply ignore the question. OOSP can go chase another squirrel while he waits, and hopefully he'll forget.
* - and in the process, the engineers have already thought of his ideas, and know why they would or wouldn't work.
One our project managers in the old office was at least a mini-seagull, especially meetings; we'd be rolling through a series of items, rattling off tasks and issues, and he'd just randomly seize on one and refuse to let go of it, until you'd spent half the meeting explaining every detail to him. It wasn't even the biggest or most relevant items, it was just whatever piqued his interest/concern.
Ultimately I recognized it as being born out of anxiety (not unlike my own); the item in question would hook his latent anxiety give him a jolt, and then he just had to run it to ground. Understanding that, I tended to deal better with his little tangents than a lot of folks, and certainly with more sympathy (though it was still annoying).
when I was a contractor, my actual manager noped her way out when they finally pushed her too far (good on her!). So the company in their wisdom gave me a manager (?) and four(!!!) indirect dash line bosses. It was a mess.Obvs. You did, but what happened next?
Then they started me training my replacement....Maybe they thought I wouldn't notice....
Didn't know that the Peter Principle was actually named after an academic! I thought it was called that because people get promoted until they literally "peter out" and become useless.
Oooh, I hadn't heard the term "Seagull Manager" before! But I have certainly encountered a few of them!
Didn't know that the Peter Principle was actually named after an academic! I thought it was called that because people get promoted until they literally "peter out" and become useless.
I tend to think there are two Peter Principles.
The “good” one is that competent people get promoted until they end up in a position where they’re not competent
The “bad” one is where incompetent people get promoted to jobs where they’ll do the least amount of damage.
Oooh, I hadn't heard the term "Seagull Manager" before! But I have certainly encountered a few of them!
I had one (you can see my own story many pages back). We called it swoop-and-poop, as she'd be off doing her own thing, until one day she'd swoop back in on me for some unknown reason and shit on everything I had done in the six weeks since she had last shit all over me. As you can imagine, there was a lot of duck-and-cover going on in that office as people actively worked to avoid her notice.
Oooh, I hadn't heard the term "Seagull Manager" before! But I have certainly encountered a few of them!
The wikipage for that term also included this list of gems:
Mushroom management – Company with dysfunctional communication between managers and employees
Dunning–Kruger effect – Cognitive bias about one's own skill
Peter Principle – Management concept by Laurence J. Peter
Competence (human resources) – Ability of a person to do a job properly
Micromanagement – Excessive attention or control by a manager
Carrot and stick – Metaphor for the use of punishment and reward to induce a desired behavior
Kiss up kick down – Form of social malfunction
Didn't know that the Peter Principle was actually named after an academic! I thought it was called that because people get promoted until they literally "peter out" and become useless.
Oooh, I hadn't heard the term "Seagull Manager" before! But I have certainly encountered a few of them!...
...
Don't be an ass and hang around for that, get FIRE'd.
...
I would like to think that incompetent managers in the workplace would be incompetent in managing their personal business as well, but that may just be me hoping that my Mustachian values align with competence in general.
Someone could well have serious misunderstandings about their professional world, or perhaps have a mercenary approach to extracting whatever income they can through their labor and be managing it very well in their private life. Hopefully such people would do us worker bees a favor and retire as soon as their finances permit.
rantk81 - It might be a fun game to see if you can get a company car out of this. See just how stupid they are willing to go on in office work :-p
90min car commute is not something anyone should have to put up with. I have gone from 10min to 30-60 depending, after selling my house, soon I will buy a new condo and be near 100% wfh. I am sure many people drive from where I will be to where I work but I will not be one of them. I could see management trying to back peddle on my approval to wfh or insist on some hybrid but no, I too have FU money and will not sell my time at 0$/hr to commute.
feel comfortable on my train line - rantk81 may be on a different line so YMMV
I really hope you get approved rantk81; forced in-office work for high performers - ESPECIALLY since the rest of your team isn't coming in - is dumb. So dumb. (But if this is the hill your company wants to die on, that probably tells you something about their long-term priorities and your alignment with this new 'company culture', right?)
I really hope you get approved rantk81; forced in-office work for high performers - ESPECIALLY since the rest of your team isn't coming in - is dumb. So dumb. (But if this is the hill your company wants to die on, that probably tells you something about their long-term priorities and your alignment with this new 'company culture', right?)My office is even dumber. They could have a weekly team day where the whole team comes in since we're all reasonably local - and I see some value in that.
feel comfortable on my train line - rantk81 may be on a different line so YMMV
I really hope you get approved rantk81; forced in-office work for high performers - ESPECIALLY since the rest of your team isn't coming in - is dumb. So dumb. (But if this is the hill your company wants to die on, that probably tells you something about their long-term priorities and your alignment with this new 'company culture', right?)
Yep. For the record, it would involve taking the blue line for almost the entire extent of the line. I'm not going to be forced into spending an hour each way on a mobile homeless-shelter/bathroom/open-air-drug-seller-market. The only worse line is the red one.
So it wouldn't be on a "luxurious" (by comparison ;) ) metra line.
Were your coworkers hired as remote workers, or were they in-office employees who went remote during the pandemic? It seems like you personally should not need an exemption because you were hired as a teleworker. It they start demanding you to come in, is that part of your contract?
feel comfortable on my train line - rantk81 may be on a different line so YMMV
I really hope you get approved rantk81; forced in-office work for high performers - ESPECIALLY since the rest of your team isn't coming in - is dumb. So dumb. (But if this is the hill your company wants to die on, that probably tells you something about their long-term priorities and your alignment with this new 'company culture', right?)
Yep. For the record, it would involve taking the blue line for almost the entire extent of the line. I'm not going to be forced into spending an hour each way on a mobile homeless-shelter/bathroom/open-air-drug-seller-market. The only worse line is the red one.
So it wouldn't be on a "luxurious" (by comparison ;) ) metra line.
Were your coworkers hired as remote workers, or were they in-office employees who went remote during the pandemic? It seems like you personally should not need an exemption because you were hired as a teleworker. It they start demanding you to come in, is that part of your contract?
I told my immediate boss that I would not be commuting to the office. My boss told me that I could ask for an exemption. But the icing on the cake is, your manager-chain does not have discretion to approve exemptions. We have to submit paperwork and HR has the final say on whether the "reason" for an exemption is valid or not. From the way the communication has been structured, it is very obvious that they probably intend on denying most all requests for exemption, unless they are based on a protected class such as a disability.
This is the US. Unless OP is a SVP or higher, there almost certainly is no contract.Oh, wait, what? What are you meaning with that?
feel comfortable on my train line - rantk81 may be on a different line so YMMV
I really hope you get approved rantk81; forced in-office work for high performers - ESPECIALLY since the rest of your team isn't coming in - is dumb. So dumb. (But if this is the hill your company wants to die on, that probably tells you something about their long-term priorities and your alignment with this new 'company culture', right?)
Yep. For the record, it would involve taking the blue line for almost the entire extent of the line. I'm not going to be forced into spending an hour each way on a mobile homeless-shelter/bathroom/open-air-drug-seller-market. The only worse line is the red one.
So it wouldn't be on a "luxurious" (by comparison ;) ) metra line.
This is the US. Unless OP is a SVP or higher, there almost certainly is no contract.Oh, wait, what? What are you meaning with that?
You can't mean someone is working months or even years for a company and there is nothing written down?
rantk81 - If you are truly prepared to leave, I second the recommendation to simply ignore the request. It's not what I would have done when I was working. I would have likely went to HR as well with a passionate email and/or phone call. Now that I have been retired for a few years, I realize I could have handled foolishness like this better when I was working. If all your co-workers are in a different state, would they even know you disregarded it? If they do, would they really fire you? If they call you out, you could casually explain how you didn't think it applied to your situation and calmly provide your logiocal explanation.
This is the US. Unless OP is a SVP or higher, there almost certainly is no contract.Oh, wait, what? What are you meaning with that?
You can't mean someone is working months or even years for a company and there is nothing written down?
Yup. It's not uncommon in the US. US employees often have to sign a lot of documents protecting the company, but your own protection is left to labor laws and not a contractual agreement. It varies state to state. If you work in an at-will state, it means they can let you go very easily, with little reason.
I'm in the US and I've never had a job that didn't involve some type of contract or signed offer. I'm not saying the OP isn't an at will employee. What I'm suggesting, the same as someone, is that the OP ignore the new policy and not apply for an exemption. It's not playing dumb. If I am hired for a job as a "off site" employee, that is my expectation for my role. That the OP was hired in 2020 should not change that unless it was understood that this arrangement was temporary or subject to change in light of the pandemic. Practically speaking, employers will do what they want, so that's where FU money comes into play.
I'm in the US and I've never had a job that didn't involve some type of contract or signed offer. I'm not saying the OP isn't an at will employee. What I'm suggesting, the same as someone, is that the OP ignore the new policy and not apply for an exemption. It's not playing dumb. If I am hired for a job as a "off site" employee, that is my expectation for my role. That the OP was hired in 2020 should not change that unless it was understood that this arrangement was temporary or subject to change in light of the pandemic. Practically speaking, employers will do what they want, so that's where FU money comes into play.
Oh yeah, there's a lot of paperwork you sign when you get hired. But every single piece of it is usually one-sided to protect all the rights of the employer, and restrict as much (to the extent possible or legally) the new employee. Non-disclosures, non-competes, at-will, etc.
feel comfortable on my train line - rantk81 may be on a different line so YMMV
I really hope you get approved rantk81; forced in-office work for high performers - ESPECIALLY since the rest of your team isn't coming in - is dumb. So dumb. (But if this is the hill your company wants to die on, that probably tells you something about their long-term priorities and your alignment with this new 'company culture', right?)
Yep. For the record, it would involve taking the blue line for almost the entire extent of the line. I'm not going to be forced into spending an hour each way on a mobile homeless-shelter/bathroom/open-air-drug-seller-market. The only worse line is the red one.
So it wouldn't be on a "luxurious" (by comparison ;) ) metra line.
Yup. It's not uncommon in the US. US employees often have to sign a lot of documents protecting the company, but your own protection is left to labor laws and not a contractual agreement. It varies state to state. If you work in an at-will state, it means they can let you go very easily, with little reason.
Oh yeah, there's a lot of paperwork you sign when you get hired. But every single piece of it is usually one-sided to protect all the rights of the employer, and restrict as much (to the extent possible or legally) the new employee. Non-disclosures, non-competes, at-will, etc.
...
So, if they decide today that you only get minimum wage from the third of Marhc on, that's it?
How does the state know that they pay the approprioate taxes and social.... ah, okay, forget that, companies don't do that in the US.
You think that in Germany the state knows that the correct payroll taxes are being withheld because it looks at the contract between the employer and the employee?The state does not look at all contracts all the time.
You have seen the recent stories about some states opening up the mining and animal slaughter industries to children labor?No, that didn't make the tour across the ocean and through my filters. On the other hand this week there was a "I want more enthusiasm for work" story here from a big employer that complained about people no longer wanting to work their ass off which, not least because of the tone, got a little shitstorm. It's the same everywhere, isn't it?
To the best of my knowledge I could be fired right now with no reason provided and given basically pay earned to date, and 30 minutes to clean out my work area.Yeah, I knew that existed. But I was asking about the pay for the work you already did. Without contract, how can anybody prove if you got the right amount or too much or too less?
This is the US. Unless OP is a SVP or higher, there almost certainly is no contract.Oh, wait, what? What are you meaning with that?
You can't mean someone is working months or even years for a company and there is nothing written down?
QuoteTo the best of my knowledge I could be fired right now with no reason provided and given basically pay earned to date, and 30 minutes to clean out my work area.Yeah, I knew that existed. But I was asking about the pay for the work you already did. Without contract, how can anybody prove if you got the right amount or too much or too less?
Just to clarify:QuoteQuoteTo the best of my knowledge I could be fired right now with no reason provided and given basically pay earned to date, and 30 minutes to clean out my work area.Yeah, I knew that existed. But I was asking about the pay for the work you already did. Without contract, how can anybody prove if you got the right amount or too much or too less?
You don't need a contract for that, you just need your pay/offer letter (which presumably was received prior to accepting a job--verbal offers are a thing, but 'get it in writing' is pretty basic advice). For standard employment/non-contractor type jobs, the government is going to learn all about how much you get paid when you fill out your employment paperwork too since the employer has taxes to pay on it. And no, companies in the US can't cut salaries retroactively without falling afoul of labor laws--
https://www.askamanager.org/2020/04/our-employer-wants-to-cut-our-pay-retroactively.html
You could end up with a case where someone accepts a verbal offer, ignores the payroll paperwork they fill out, and then finds out the first time they get paid that they've got a problem, but at least after that first paycheck you've got a paper trail, too.
How is your manager? Would a frank conversation with them be helpful, asking them if you need to get another offer in order to get changed back to remote (in which case, you are likely to just take the other offer)? How much do you like your job?
<Comment about the 14 stacked squirrels in a trenchcoat>
You have seen the recent stories about some states opening up the mining and animal slaughter industries to children labor?
My soda came up out of my nose when I laughed at that one!
Oh wow, yes, I suck at editing. Whoops! It was the squirrels in the trenchcoat comment.
Oh wow, yes, I suck at editing. Whoops! It was the squirrels in the trenchcoat comment.
rantk81 - If you are truly prepared to leave, I second the recommendation to simply ignore the request. It's not what I would have done when I was working. I would have likely went to HR as well with a passionate email and/or phone call. Now that I have been retired for a few years, I realize I could have handled foolishness like this better when I was working. If all your co-workers are in a different state, would they even know you disregarded it? If they do, would they really fire you? If they call you out, you could casually explain how you didn't think it applied to your situation and calmly provide your logiocal explanation.
I am 100% totally prepared to walk, if this doesn't go my way. But yeah, it is probably decent advice to just ignore it. However, I can't really "play dumb" and pretend like I didn't know that it would apply to me. We have an official designation in one of the "employee management tools" which classifies us as Onsite, Offsite, or Connected. "Connected" folks are expected to adhere to the 2+ day rule. They are also proactively automatically changing employee's classifications from "Offsite" (which I currently am/was) to "Connected" if you live within their radius. I'm assuming this is what is/will happen to me. I'm sure they will force us to click some button in that "employee management tool" software in order to acknowledge this, as how it was handled a long time ago when I originally was classified as "Offsite."
Do you have a family member outside the Zone of Commuting, whose address you could use for those purposes? Then file a change of address with work, and you're done.Heh, you beat me to it.
Do you have a family member outside the Zone of Commuting, whose address you could use for those purposes? Then file a change of address with work, and you're done.
Do you have a family member outside the Zone of Commuting, whose address you could use for those purposes? Then file a change of address with work, and you're done.
Not in the current state where I live.
Potentially have a FU story brewing!
I'm essentially FI, but wouldn't mind continuing to pad the 'stache a little more, especially since we seem to be getting a market pullback / recession.
I started a new job in July 2020 and was on-boarded completely remotely, and worked fully remotely the entire time.
In less than 2 years after my hire date, I had been promoted. My managers are extremely happy with my work, my teammates have come to depend on me, and our team works on a highly successful "thing" that is profitable to the company at-large. Our team has been described as "extremely lean" and gets a much higher ROI for the number of people working on our team per profit, when compared to most other teams in the company. Each team works pretty much independently/silo'd and is evaluated mostly on their own "thing's" performance. That company is (was?) a fantastic place to work. They demanded a high level of performance, but in return, they treated their employees _extremely_ well. My direct managers and teammates are fantastic.
Last year, the company got acquired by a larger company. Larger company promised they would let the individual teams pretty much have autonomy and continue to run per usual. Well, that seems to have been a lie. The Boomer-CEO of the larger company couldn't help but let his "asses in office seats" mentality shine through. This week we received an email informing us that: Starting May 1, there is a new mandatory edict that every employee within a 90-minute (one way) commute of an office is required to be present in the office for two days per week. It has been communicated that the "90 minute" metric is to be considered via automobile, and would not consider what the commute time is for people who would use public transportation.
Well, in my particular situation, I do not own a car, but I fall within the 90 minute range. I could theoretically take public transportation (for over an hour each way) on a really dirty and unsafe inner-city train, to get to an office. But it gets better! For this particular office location, NONE of the other members of my team who I interact with on a regular basis would be present in this physical office. They live across the country. Per the communication from the company at large, they are telling employees that "it doesn't matter if you don't have any immediate co-workers in the same office -- we're doing this to facilitate company culture!"
Yeah.. a culture of resentment.
I told my immediate boss that I would not be commuting to the office. My boss told me that I could ask for an exemption. But the icing on the cake is, your manager-chain does not have discretion to approve exemptions. We have to submit paperwork and HR has the final say on whether the "reason" for an exemption is valid or not. From the way the communication has been structured, it is very obvious that they probably intend on denying most all requests for exemption, unless they are based on a protected class such as a disability.
In any case, I sent a terse email to HR requesting a copy of the exemption form, and will submit. If it is not approved, I will continue to work from home doing my best work. If the company at large decides to "police" the mandatory in-office policy, they can terminate me against my boss's wishes.
But all in all, this has really soured me on this company -- that, up until now, had been excellent in every way.
But I'm not wasting 4+ hours a week on a disgusting and unsafe train, so that I can go to an office where I still have to make zoom calls to talk to all my teammates. Fuck that.
Everyone is replaceable (not always at the level they were producing, but often at a level that is acceptable to keep things going well enough). This is why FU money is so important. At the end of the day, the organization as a whole doesn't really car about you. They will pull whatever lever they need for the decisions makers to be successful and happy. If your happiness and success coincides with their goals, you'll do well. If it doesn't, well, good luck to you.
Potentially have a FU story brewing!
I'm essentially FI, but wouldn't mind continuing to pad the 'stache a little more, especially since we seem to be getting a market pullback / recession.
I started a new job in July 2020 and was on-boarded completely remotely, and worked fully remotely the entire time.
In less than 2 years after my hire date, I had been promoted. My managers are extremely happy with my work, my teammates have come to depend on me, and our team works on a highly successful "thing" that is profitable to the company at-large. Our team has been described as "extremely lean" and gets a much higher ROI for the number of people working on our team per profit, when compared to most other teams in the company. Each team works pretty much independently/silo'd and is evaluated mostly on their own "thing's" performance. That company is (was?) a fantastic place to work. They demanded a high level of performance, but in return, they treated their employees _extremely_ well. My direct managers and teammates are fantastic.
Last year, the company got acquired by a larger company. Larger company promised they would let the individual teams pretty much have autonomy and continue to run per usual. Well, that seems to have been a lie. The Boomer-CEO of the larger company couldn't help but let his "asses in office seats" mentality shine through. This week we received an email informing us that: Starting May 1, there is a new mandatory edict that every employee within a 90-minute (one way) commute of an office is required to be present in the office for two days per week. It has been communicated that the "90 minute" metric is to be considered via automobile, and would not consider what the commute time is for people who would use public transportation.
Well, in my particular situation, I do not own a car, but I fall within the 90 minute range. I could theoretically take public transportation (for over an hour each way) on a really dirty and unsafe inner-city train, to get to an office. But it gets better! For this particular office location, NONE of the other members of my team who I interact with on a regular basis would be present in this physical office. They live across the country. Per the communication from the company at large, they are telling employees that "it doesn't matter if you don't have any immediate co-workers in the same office -- we're doing this to facilitate company culture!"
Yeah.. a culture of resentment.
I told my immediate boss that I would not be commuting to the office. My boss told me that I could ask for an exemption. But the icing on the cake is, your manager-chain does not have discretion to approve exemptions. We have to submit paperwork and HR has the final say on whether the "reason" for an exemption is valid or not. From the way the communication has been structured, it is very obvious that they probably intend on denying most all requests for exemption, unless they are based on a protected class such as a disability.
In any case, I sent a terse email to HR requesting a copy of the exemption form, and will submit. If it is not approved, I will continue to work from home doing my best work. If the company at large decides to "police" the mandatory in-office policy, they can terminate me against my boss's wishes.
But all in all, this has really soured me on this company -- that, up until now, had been excellent in every way.
But I'm not wasting 4+ hours a week on a disgusting and unsafe train, so that I can go to an office where I still have to make zoom calls to talk to all my teammates. Fuck that.
A lot companies are doing this over the past 12 months to get rid of high cost employees without layoffs. The people most likely to quit are the ones with the highest pay and most options (who are the most likely to leave anyway). Those who refuse to adhere to the policy can be fired for cause and the company may be able to avoid unemployment claims. Facebook, Google, Twitter, and many, many more tech companies did this last year as the economy started shaking. It's another lever they can pull to raise share price by lowering expenses.
In most cases, the lost revenue/productivity from the leaving employees are not high enough to make a difference and exceptions can be made for truly outstanding employees or those in the "good ole boys" club.
Everyone is replaceable (not always at the level they were producing, but often at a level that is acceptable to keep things going well enough). This is why FU money is so important. At the end of the day, the organization as a whole doesn't really care about you. They will pull whatever lever they need for the decisions makers to be successful and happy. If your happiness and success coincides with their goals, you'll do well. If it doesn't, well, good luck to you.
If it is HR that is setting the policy, how are they supposed to find out if someone isn't coming to the office? Do they have someone walking around the office every day, taking attendance? Some IT system that detects if your laptop connects to the network? A network of spies? If your management chain doesn't report anything, how would HR know?
It's often collected from badge swipes, or from your PC's network telemetry if not
I like the way you think, Captain!If it is HR that is setting the policy, how are they supposed to find out if someone isn't coming to the office? Do they have someone walking around the office every day, taking attendance? Some IT system that detects if your laptop connects to the network? A network of spies? If your management chain doesn't report anything, how would HR know?It's often collected from badge swipes, or from your PC's network telemetry if not
Yep, badge swipes. So you could go, badge, take a call or two and then return home.
One dumb outcome has been not enough offices for everyone who has come in.
One dumb outcome has been not enough offices for everyone who has come in.That is not your problem. If they can't provide working space, you can't work. Tell them you can't and wait.
One dumb outcome has been not enough offices for everyone who has come in.That is not your problem. If they can't provide working space, you can't work. Tell them you can't and wait.
One dumb outcome has been not enough offices for everyone who has come in.That is not your problem. If they can't provide working space, you can't work. Tell them you can't and wait.
So first, this is my husband not me. And as mentioned above, if all they have is cafeteria space that hurts his back (not office chairs) and is in the open (we try to be COVID cautious), then he’ll badge in, take a few meetings and go home. I’ve also told him to track these instances for a record but I’m not sure he has.
One dumb outcome has been not enough offices for everyone who has come in.That is not your problem. If they can't provide working space, you can't work. Tell them you can't and wait.
So first, this is my husband not me. And as mentioned above, if all they have is cafeteria space that hurts his back (not office chairs) and is in the open (we try to be COVID cautious), then he’ll badge in, take a few meetings and go home. I’ve also told him to track these instances for a record but I’m not sure he has.
Is your husband at a larger company? If so, most larger companies have policies mandating ergonomic accessibility, and even have experts that will come and install all the ergonomic gear.
He could have a lot of fun tweaking corporate policies by asking for ergonomic accommodations, and telling them he mostly works from the cafeteria.
This is the US. Unless OP is a SVP or higher, there almost certainly is no contract.Oh, wait, what? What are you meaning with that?
You can't mean someone is working months or even years for a company and there is nothing written down?
Yup. It's not uncommon in the US. US employees often have to sign a lot of documents protecting the company, but your own protection is left to labor laws and not a contractual agreement. It varies state to state. If you work in an at-will state, it means they can let you go very easily, with little reason.
On the other hand, an actual ‘fireing’ is rare. That would prevent unemployment insurance (partial pay reimbursement )from being applied for the employee. My sense is that most employees are ‘laid off’, which includes unemployment insurance to avoid litigation. “Involuntary resignation” would prevent a stain on the employee’s resume, so is also an option. States in the US vary to a degree that I’m not willing to look up, since I’m retired .This is the US. Unless OP is a SVP or higher, there almost certainly is no contract.Oh, wait, what? What are you meaning with that?
You can't mean someone is working months or even years for a company and there is nothing written down?
Yup. It's not uncommon in the US. US employees often have to sign a lot of documents protecting the company, but your own protection is left to labor laws and not a contractual agreement. It varies state to state. If you work in an at-will state, it means they can let you go very easily, with little reason.
I am 40 and have literally never worked a job that I couldn't legally be fired from on the spot for no reason. It's been very explicitly laid out that it's at-will employment and can be terminated at any time with no notice, by either party, for any/no reason. While I guess there was technically a signed "contract" between me and the employer, I wouldn't describe it as a contract because that usually implies some specific end date.
I am in Michigan, USA.
One dumb outcome has been not enough offices for everyone who has come in.That is not your problem. If they can't provide working space, you can't work. Tell them you can't and wait.
One dumb outcome has been not enough offices for everyone who has come in.That is not your problem. If they can't provide working space, you can't work. Tell them you can't and wait.
So first, this is my husband not me. And as mentioned above, if all they have is cafeteria space that hurts his back (not office chairs) and is in the open (we try to be COVID cautious), then he’ll badge in, take a few meetings and go home. I’ve also told him to track these instances for a record but I’m not sure he has.
One dumb outcome has been not enough offices for everyone who has come in.That is not your problem. If they can't provide working space, you can't work. Tell them you can't and wait.
We are running into this very issue at one of my company locations. They consolidated a couple of locations into one building and implemented workspace sharing during the pandemic. Now they are talking about requiring all employees to report to the office however, there's one problem: there is no room for everyone to show up at once.
Regular means once a month, right? Like regular payments.Regular means annually. E.g: filing your taxes, or paying property tax, or vehicle registration, or car insurance payment, or an annual visit to the doctor. ;-p
O.o What??? Do you buy a new car each year?Regular means once a month, right? Like regular payments.Regular means annually. E.g: filing your taxes, or paying property tax, or vehicle registration, or car insurance payment, or an annual visit to the doctor. ;-p
In some US states, you have to pay to keep your car registered, which is typically annual, or optionally biennial.O.o What??? Do you buy a new car each year?Regular means once a month, right? Like regular payments.Regular means annually. E.g: filing your taxes, or paying property tax, or vehicle registration, or car insurance payment, or an annual visit to the doctor. ;-p
And I wish I only had to go to the doctor once per year... going tomorrow to get my regular allergy med starter for this year. If it goes like last year I will only need to take it 4 month, everything was dead, so not much in the air.
Climate change does have its good sides, but I would still prefer a life without.
O.o What??? Do you buy a new car each year?Odd choice to throw stones about new cars from a nation where government policy ensures more new car buying and a substantially younger average age of cars than in the US, to support a planet-destroying sector full of bad actors and corporate malfeasance ... and Germany has a annual motor vehicle tax barely different from ours, just not called 'registration'.
Correct. I'm also not aware of any US states that don't require you to continue paying for registration of a vehicle you already own. Many states also charge a value-based tax as part of the registration renewal.In some US states, you have to pay to keep your car registered, which is typically annual, or optionally biennial.O.o What??? Do you buy a new car each year?Regular means once a month, right? Like regular payments.Regular means annually. E.g: filing your taxes, or paying property tax, or vehicle registration, or car insurance payment, or an annual visit to the doctor. ;-p
And I wish I only had to go to the doctor once per year... going tomorrow to get my regular allergy med starter for this year. If it goes like last year I will only need to take it 4 month, everything was dead, so not much in the air.
Climate change does have its good sides, but I would still prefer a life without.
Ah, so you don't register every year, the payment is called registration!Correct. I'm also not aware of any US states that don't require you to continue paying for registration of a vehicle you already own. Many states also charge a value-based tax as part of the registration renewal.In some US states, you have to pay to keep your car registered, which is typically annual, or optionally biennial.O.o What??? Do you buy a new car each year?Regular means once a month, right? Like regular payments.Regular means annually. E.g: filing your taxes, or paying property tax, or vehicle registration, or car insurance payment, or an annual visit to the doctor. ;-p
And I wish I only had to go to the doctor once per year... going tomorrow to get my regular allergy med starter for this year. If it goes like last year I will only need to take it 4 month, everything was dead, so not much in the air.
Climate change does have its good sides, but I would still prefer a life without.
Basically. When the notice comes in the mail, it is a "registration renewal" notice, as RWD said-- for registration to remain current, the taxes/fees must be paid annually, and they give us a little sticker to place on our license plate to show that we've paid for the current year. We just linguistically shorten "registration renewal payment" to "registration".Ah, so you don't register every year, the payment is called registration!Correct. I'm also not aware of any US states that don't require you to continue paying for registration of a vehicle you already own. Many states also charge a value-based tax as part of the registration renewal.In some US states, you have to pay to keep your car registered, which is typically annual, or optionally biennial.O.o What??? Do you buy a new car each year?Regular means once a month, right? Like regular payments.Regular means annually. E.g: filing your taxes, or paying property tax, or vehicle registration, or car insurance payment, or an annual visit to the doctor. ;-p
And I wish I only had to go to the doctor once per year... going tomorrow to get my regular allergy med starter for this year. If it goes like last year I will only need to take it 4 month, everything was dead, so not much in the air.
Climate change does have its good sides, but I would still prefer a life without.
Correct. I'm also not aware of any US states that don't require you to continue paying for registration of a vehicle you already own. Many states also charge a value-based tax as part of the registration renewal.
Correct. I'm also not aware of any US states that don't require you to continue paying for registration of a vehicle you already own. Many states also charge a value-based tax as part of the registration renewal.
In Alaska it varies by municipality, the state allows permanent tags on vehicles more than 8 years old if the local city or borough agrees. Most of the local governments have adopted the policy including the one I live in. As everything I own is older than 8 years I won't have to register again until i replace on of our vehicles!
I think I left a comment on this thread long ago about the value of FU money and DMV... It was summer of 2020 and the state run DMV office was much grumpier and slower than normal. I was told to expect to spend 6-8 hours there to register one vehicle and one trailer. I could only sign up for a single registration at a time "to speed things up" so I'd have to wait 3-4 hours twice... I drove 10 miles to MVD express office which is privately run and charges $15 each for registration. Twenty minutes later with everything done I told the clerk "people who say money can't buy happiness have obviously never come here after trying the DMV" and happily paid their fee.
I remember the first DMV office I went to, near a University in Charlotte, NC. It did seem like one of the people there genuinely enjoyed witnessing suffering.It's a requirement of the job, IIRC.
Correct. I'm also not aware of any US states that don't require you to continue paying for registration of a vehicle you already own. Many states also charge a value-based tax as part of the registration renewal.
In Alaska it varies by municipality, the state allows permanent tags on vehicles more than 8 years old if the local city or borough agrees. Most of the local governments have adopted the policy including the one I live in. As everything I own is older than 8 years I won't have to register again until i replace on of our vehicles!
I think I left a comment on this thread long ago about the value of FU money and DMV... It was summer of 2020 and the state run DMV office was much grumpier and slower than normal. I was told to expect to spend 6-8 hours there to register one vehicle and one trailer. I could only sign up for a single registration at a time "to speed things up" so I'd have to wait 3-4 hours twice... I drove 10 miles to MVD express office which is privately run and charges $15 each for registration. Twenty minutes later with everything done I told the clerk "people who say money can't buy happiness have obviously never come here after trying the DMV" and happily paid their fee.
I time my visits at less busy times.
Location: SF Bay Area, USA
Location: SF Bay Area, USA
I love the Bay Area, but…
As a UK resident the idea of actually going to an office and queuing to pay vehicle tax seems antediluvian. We have had online vehicle tax payment since 2004.We have online payment options, but some things must be done in person.
As a UK resident the idea of actually going to an office and queuing to pay vehicle tax seems antediluvian. We have had online vehicle tax payment since 2004.I am in Maryland in the US, and there are multiple ways to renew to get the new sticker with the expiration year to put on the rear tag.
As a UK resident the idea of actually going to an office and queuing to pay vehicle tax seems antediluvian. We have had online vehicle tax payment since 2004.We have online payment options, but some things must be done in person.
Yeah, same in VA & MD, and the COVID restrictions just made it even worse. You had to make an appointment for a specific time, which were so limited that it could be months in the future. And then you got there, and you still had to take a number and wait, seemingly just as long as before.Location: SF Bay Area, USA
I love the Bay Area, but…
I am not in the Bay Area and I’ve never entered my local DMV without there being at least 100 people in line ahead of me. My DH had an appointment one day for something that had to be done in person and he still waited in line for five hours. Not joking.
The things you have to go in for are things like a new license or some vehicle transactions, where they want to verify your identity and/or original documents. And sometimes with license renewals, they'll want to re-test your vision or something.As a UK resident the idea of actually going to an office and queuing to pay vehicle tax seems antediluvian. We have had online vehicle tax payment since 2004.We have online payment options, but some things must be done in person.
O.K.
I got the impression that the only way to do it was in person.
antediluvian
Here, I can help get y'all back on track.*Slow claps*
I'm in tech -- staff software engineer, in specific. My gig has been stressful. The short version is there's the job I was hired for, and then the numerous other jobs I'm moonlighting at (management, product, data analyst, architect), because they need to be done and either aren't being done by the people who should be doing them (not competent or overworked doesn't really matter, either way it is my problem) or are nobody's official job (data analyst/architect).
It became obvious to me as the CEO's tone shifted that layoffs were coming, so I told my manager I volunteered. I'd been considering just quitting, so getting laid off with a likely severance sounded pretty good. It'd also mean if there was a big layoff I didn't get added stress from same-work-even-less-hands afterwards. I didn't manage to tell up the chain, because those folks were busy bailing pre-layoff. Layoff happens, and I'm not laid off. So I told my VP the day after (when he didn't need to meet with people who were being laid off), "hey why don't you just add me to the layoff, I'd already volunteered but clearly the message didn't make it up the chain."
This apparently has Caused Drama and got me scheduled for an hour long 1:1 with said VP. He said, "we really want you to stay, figure out what you want and we'll see about making it happen" so I'd first asked to just be made architect officially, but got hedging from my direct management chain. So I told my VP that I didn't see this working out (if my manager/director isn't behind it, it wouldn't matter if the VP forced it, I'd end up undercut and it wouldn't work anyway) and maybe he should just add me to the layoff like I'd asked. He suggested switching teams instead, since in our discussion he thought I'd be interested in and fit well with the developer productivity team. I agreed with his position on that, but I figured "the req game" would make that a non starter. I'd actually looked at switching to developer productivity 6 months ago but "the req game" killed that and I sad as much. My VP had some... uncomplimentary things to say about "the req game" and said he'd step in and use me as a case study to break down said stupid HR game.
So I'll be switching teams (away from my high-stress, millions of $ on the line daily team that manages to deliver anyway despite been consistently underinvested in/understaffed). And when I talked to the manager of the developer productivity team she goes, "You're seriously burnt out and stressed. I want you to join my team... but I want it after you take a serious break from work. At least multiple weeks of vacation, but preferably longer. That is leave-of-absence territory, but if you can swing that level of break, you need it and you have my complete support to take it."
So shortly I'll switch teams... and then shut my laptop down for two months of (unpaid) leave.
I'm also "unlimited PTO" but apparently that means "no more than 3 weeks at a time" and in absolutely no circumstance may it be combined with (during or touching either end of) an unpaid leave of absence.
Otherwise yes, I'd agree, it'd be better as fully paid. Although, to some degree, since they still cover 100% of health premiums and my RSUs keep vesting, I am getting paid -- just not at my normal salary.
I'm also "unlimited PTO" but apparently that means "no more than 3 weeks at a time" and in absolutely no circumstance may it be combined with (during or touching either end of) an unpaid leave of absence.
Otherwise yes, I'd agree, it'd be better as fully paid. Although, to some degree, since they still cover 100% of health premiums and my RSUs keep vesting, I am getting paid -- just not at my normal salary.
Can you take 3 weeks off, "come back" remotely for one half-day, and then leave on an unpaid leave of absence? :-)
I'm also "unlimited PTO" but apparently that means "no more than 3 weeks at a time" and in absolutely no circumstance may it be combined with (during or touching either end of) an unpaid leave of absence.
Otherwise yes, I'd agree, it'd be better as fully paid. Although, to some degree, since they still cover 100% of health premiums and my RSUs keep vesting, I am getting paid -- just not at my normal salary.
Can you take 3 weeks off, "come back" remotely for one half-day, and then leave on an unpaid leave of absence? :-)
I'm also "unlimited PTO" but apparently that means "no more than 3 weeks at a time" and in absolutely no circumstance may it be combined with (during or touching either end of) an unpaid leave of absence.
Otherwise yes, I'd agree, it'd be better as fully paid. Although, to some degree, since they still cover 100% of health premiums and my RSUs keep vesting, I am getting paid -- just not at my normal salary.
Can you take 3 weeks off, "come back" remotely for one half-day, and then leave on an unpaid leave of absence? :-)
Brilliant. Sometimes you just need to maliciously comply.
I'm also "unlimited PTO" but apparently that means "no more than 3 weeks at a time" and in absolutely no circumstance may it be combined with (during or touching either end of) an unpaid leave of absence.
Otherwise yes, I'd agree, it'd be better as fully paid. Although, to some degree, since they still cover 100% of health premiums and my RSUs keep vesting, I am getting paid -- just not at my normal salary.
Can you take 3 weeks off, "come back" remotely for one half-day, and then leave on an unpaid leave of absence? :-)
Brilliant. Sometimes you just need to maliciously comply.
"Malicious compliance" is my new favorite phrase.
It's really the only appropriate response to stupid policies.
Well this has been a crazy week!
The bad news is we won't be going on a year long vagabonding trip this year... The program director and super agree that DW should work less days next year to make her contract fair. The super has also asked her to help design the new admin contracts next year. He's new to the district this past year and apparently really appreciated the way DW explained the problems in her contract. Changing them this year requires going back to the board of directors which means a lot of egg on a lot of people faces. The assistant super who has been a source of much stinginess is leaving this school year which gives me some home the negotiations will actually be in good faith next year.
But the the biggest change since I posted is that we've been asked to adopt a baby! Adopting is something we were considering but not actively pursuing when a friend of a friend reached out in December. By mid January it looked like it probably wasn't going to happen but that changed this week. Last night we met with the family for the first time and while I it is far from certain to happen, we're going to move forward with the process. While adoption is more affordable when the mother chooses you before giving birth it's still going to take real money to make it happen. Doesn't seem like FU money is a appropriate term, but I am thankful to know I can "figure out the money" if everything else works out.
With a decade of accrued unused sick leave, DW could take paid leave for half the year if the adoption goes through. If it doesn't, at least she still likes the work she is doing and the reduced time contract is no longer a total farce, so it looks like were here for at least OMY. If the adoption goes through and the contract negotiations don't go anywhere maybe in a year we'll be planning to slow travel North America with a toddler...
Thanks everyone!
So far things are going well with DS. He generally seems pretty happy when he's not having a diaper changed. DW did a week long nesting binge the week before he arrived and with some help from friends completely outfitted a nursery for under $400. The theme is "national parks and frugality"... I have a cousin who spent $10,000! I haven't seen her nursery so I have no idea how. DW didn't want to do a baby shower until we were sure it would happen... Now we're set through 6 months except for diapers so I think she's going to have more of a celebration and less of a shower...
Ask everyone for sizes starting at 6+ months, and diapers.
Congrats!
If you want to go hardcore, cloth isn't that bad. Yes, you will do laundry every day or few (for us it was every day) and yes you may have to use the dryer (we'd line dry when we could, but sometimes you need a clean set sometime about NOW) but it really wasn't that bad and I'm the one who did the laundry processing. Yes it has a big startup cost but over time will likely save you money over time. Plus you won't dump a ton* of piss filled plastic in the landfill.
Would only recommend if you have a washer/dryer in-home though.
*: Apparently actually a literal half-ton if you believe https://mint.intuit.com/blog/planning/cloth-vs-disposable-diapers-a-cost-comparison-102011/ although the citation is kinda weak.
^Your GF sounds like a keeper.^heck yes!
idk why you say she's not a mustachian. 50% savings rate on that income and a big middle finger for the petty tyrants in an entry level job sounds perfectly mustachian to me+1
^Your GF sounds like a keeper.^heck yes!
idk why you say she's not a mustachian. 50% savings rate on that income and a big middle finger for the petty tyrants in an entry level job sounds perfectly mustachian to me
Then I sent an email to my contact at the third-party company (it was a response to her "we can't change our standard contract" message) saying "I think we're finished here." When a manger got back to me (quite quickly, compared to the previous pace of responses) I got to reply with "which part of "I think we're finished here" was unclear? Please delete my information from your computers."
Then I went for a walk in the sun, which was lovely!
Good for you. The unfortunate part is that these companies act this way because they take advantage of so many people who either don't read the contract or agree to verbal assurances.
Love the part about taking a walk in the sun.
Then I sent an email to my contact at the third-party company (it was a response to her "we can't change our standard contract" message) saying "I think we're finished here." When a manger got back to me (quite quickly, compared to the previous pace of responses) I got to reply with "which part of "I think we're finished here" was unclear? Please delete my information from your computers."
Then I went for a walk in the sun, which was lovely!
Good for you. The unfortunate part is that these companies act this way because they take advantage of so many people who either don't read the contract or agree to verbal assurances.
Love the part about taking a walk in the sun.
Awesome for jeninco!
And yes, many people don't read the contract, and I'll just add that many others don't realize that they don't have to wait for someone else to modify the contract. I've been in nearly identical situations and I've found that the contracting officials or managers at these companies typically don't have enough experience and just don't feel comfortable modifying a standard form. So they think they can't I've crossed out entire blocks of text, changed terms, changed dates and significant parts of the "standard" form just by writing over it and initialling it. Then I sign and return. More often than not they sign it without further changes. If it does require a change, I've given them a starting point.
Of course, my contracts were always kind of small (under $1M over a period of a year or more), so I don't think anyone senior was working on it, and when I submitted changes, all the person had to do was show it to someone more senior to get it approved.
So many of the terms Jen identified have shown up in my contracts too. Not getting paid for 30 days after the prime contractor gets paid is one of the craziest but it's so common, I assume many people sign it. I always cross it out and when there's pushback (almost always), I just say "I have no control over when or how you get paid, and it has nothing to do with the work that you're hiring me to do". I honestly feel as if I'm educating their legal rep when I sign a contract with them. I know they're learning things and have just never questioned "the way things are done"
Not my FU money story, but rather my GF's.This is awesome, and as I read it - I knew the outcome ahead of time, but it was still a great read.
GF and I have a trip to Germany planned this summer. Going to be spending just short of two weeks there, ending with a 5 day music festival. Trip has been planned since May of last year. Plane tickets were bought in January.
GF works as a lab assistant at the local hospital. She's currently working full time while also doing online classes for an MLT degree (Medical Laboratory Technician). She's not a Mustachian, but she is frugal and very financially responsible, so despite only making about $55k a year she still saves a considerable amount of her income (I don't know exactly how much, but probably close to 50% of her take home). As a result, she's in a very good spot financially (a year of expenses in savings plus about the same amount invested in the market) and understands that she has FU money.
She put her PTO request in for the Germany trip back in January when the plane tickets were purchased. PTO was approved, no issues. Fast forward to 3 weeks ago, GF gets sick. Ends up being COVID, and hospital requires that she not return to work until symptom free. This ends up being about 2 weeks. At beginning of quarantine period GF speaks with HR representative over the phone and asks about the time off will be handled in terms of filing for short term disability, using PTO, etcetera. Is told that her PTO will not be impacted if she files for short term disability. Sweet!
GF returns to work after recovering from COVID to be told that actually her PTO *was* used, and now she doesn't have enough to cover the Germany trip this summer. Oops! Manager says she will need to "change her trip plans" now that she doesn't have enough PTO. GF explains that she will not be changing her travel plans, and that despite the fact that she was told by HR that her PTO would not be impacted by her sick leave, she is fine with just taking unpaid leave if necessary for the vacation. Manager says nope, "We can't give you that much time off without PTO." GF says "Alright, well then consider this my notice that I'll be quitting when I leave for my trip in July."
Manager is gobsmacked. "You'd risk your job over a trip?" GF explains that though she likes her job and the people she works with, she doesn't need the job and they are not paying her enough to issue her ultimatums. She tells them that she can easily find a job that pays more than what they are paying her (which is absolutely true, there are entry level factory jobs in our area that pay more with no experience needed) and the trip has more value to her than the job.
Next day at work manager states that they are going to allow her the time off and expresses a desire to further incentivize her to stay with the company.
Moral of the story? Middle managers fear workers with FU Money.
Not my FU money story, but rather my GF's.This is awesome, and as I read it - I knew the outcome ahead of time, but it was still a great read.
GF and I have a trip to Germany planned this summer. Going to be spending just short of two weeks there, ending with a 5 day music festival. Trip has been planned since May of last year. Plane tickets were bought in January.
GF works as a lab assistant at the local hospital. She's currently working full time while also doing online classes for an MLT degree (Medical Laboratory Technician). She's not a Mustachian, but she is frugal and very financially responsible, so despite only making about $55k a year she still saves a considerable amount of her income (I don't know exactly how much, but probably close to 50% of her take home). As a result, she's in a very good spot financially (a year of expenses in savings plus about the same amount invested in the market) and understands that she has FU money.
She put her PTO request in for the Germany trip back in January when the plane tickets were purchased. PTO was approved, no issues. Fast forward to 3 weeks ago, GF gets sick. Ends up being COVID, and hospital requires that she not return to work until symptom free. This ends up being about 2 weeks. At beginning of quarantine period GF speaks with HR representative over the phone and asks about the time off will be handled in terms of filing for short term disability, using PTO, etcetera. Is told that her PTO will not be impacted if she files for short term disability. Sweet!
GF returns to work after recovering from COVID to be told that actually her PTO *was* used, and now she doesn't have enough to cover the Germany trip this summer. Oops! Manager says she will need to "change her trip plans" now that she doesn't have enough PTO. GF explains that she will not be changing her travel plans, and that despite the fact that she was told by HR that her PTO would not be impacted by her sick leave, she is fine with just taking unpaid leave if necessary for the vacation. Manager says nope, "We can't give you that much time off without PTO." GF says "Alright, well then consider this my notice that I'll be quitting when I leave for my trip in July."
Manager is gobsmacked. "You'd risk your job over a trip?" GF explains that though she likes her job and the people she works with, she doesn't need the job and they are not paying her enough to issue her ultimatums. She tells them that she can easily find a job that pays more than what they are paying her (which is absolutely true, there are entry level factory jobs in our area that pay more with no experience needed) and the trip has more value to her than the job.
Next day at work manager states that they are going to allow her the time off and expresses a desire to further incentivize her to stay with the company.
Moral of the story? Middle managers fear workers with FU Money.
This kind of thing gobsmacks me. I have never ever changed vacation plans for any of my companies. I plan MONTHS ahead. Sure, I occasionally will call in on PTO, if it's a staycation, or if I'm taking 2 weeks visiting family in the summer.
But I've worked with people (at my same companies) who do this and expect others too and ... nope.
I sometimes scan email once in a while when out of the office. Just in case there is a “can’t find the firehose” situation where 30 seconds can save three days effort upon return. Might spend about a minute every couple days doing a scan on my phone. If that really, and only when I am expecting something. Though now that I am an individual contributor after many years as a supervisor, I rarely am expecting anything except for the yearly bonus amount email that comes out while I am always on vacation over Thanksgiving week. And for sure the laptop stays in the home office whenever I go anywhere. The balance works well for me.
Vacation is to get your head free wof work and relax. I can't see how reading work emails helps with that.
If you are in a position where you might really be needed, in an emergency your secretary or boss or teammate whatever can have your phone number. And if they call, if you have to work, it's a work day not a vacation and if you are away of course the hotel costs etc. for that one day have to be paid by the company.
That makes sure that you are only called when needed - not wanted.
Vacation is to get your head free wof work and relax. I can't see how reading work emails helps with that.
If you are in a position where you might really be needed, in an emergency your secretary or boss or teammate whatever can have your phone number. And if they call, if you have to work, it's a work day not a vacation and if you are away of course the hotel costs etc. for that one day have to be paid by the company.
That makes sure that you are only called when needed - not wanted.
I generally agree, but I do think you need to consider the total situation. When I lived and worked in Germany (Stuttgart automotive) my German coworkers taught me about needing a full three weeks to fully unwind. However, that same crew was often working deep into the evening. I found that to be insane and only let myself get caught up in one 11pm idiotic "Feierabend" where we were working on a basic design problem. Nope. I can see why that crew needed three week holidays. Not me, I walk out at 4pm, partly because that's long enough, and partly to be a good example to my people (when I had people.)
Just a small viewpoint, not meant to be argumentative. I will say that the crew was very very good about work coverage, and were empowered and able to make a lot of decisions for someone who was out. That was a nice piece of it, and something I have found lacking in my other two companies, and that likely adds to the problem.
Yeah, @LennStar I think this is a bit projecting what you feel onto others.Might be, but more important it's scientific result and more or less law here in Germany - I took that "company pays for hotel when employee told to work" from a court case - one about a manager that even had in his contract to be always available if I remember correctly. Because here it's law that you take your holiday.
Yeah, @LennStar I think this is a bit projecting what you feel onto others.Might be, but more important it's scientific result and more or less law here in Germany - I took that "company pays for hotel when employee told to work" from a court case - one about a manager that even had in his contract to be always available if I remember correctly. Because here it's law that you take your holiday.
In a way even if you are working purely out of your own free will, you are in breach of your work contract, because the worker is to avoid damaging his working power through his actions, and a vacation has the goal to renew those powers.
idk why you say she's not a mustachian. 50% savings rate on that income and a big middle finger for the petty tyrants in an entry level job sounds perfectly mustachian to me
She certainly lives a Mustachian lifestyle, I just meant that she doesn't identify as such. The difference is mostly semantic I suppose :)
No, those things are generally not in contracts. For various reasons, not least the company does not want it, but also because in most companies nobody would think about calling Jonny Worker during their vacation. Managers are different, as are e.g. IT guys if the server room has a fire, but that is where those court rulings come from.Yeah, @LennStar I think this is a bit projecting what you feel onto others.Might be, but more important it's scientific result and more or less law here in Germany - I took that "company pays for hotel when employee told to work" from a court case - one about a manager that even had in his contract to be always available if I remember correctly. Because here it's law that you take your holiday.
In a way even if you are working purely out of your own free will, you are in breach of your work contract, because the worker is to avoid damaging his working power through his actions, and a vacation has the goal to renew those powers.
Are these work contracts fairly standard across employers/industries? Is there a whole industry of attorneys and consultants to help negotiate them?
Not my FU money story, but rather my GF's.This is awesome, and as I read it - I knew the outcome ahead of time, but it was still a great read.
GF and I have a trip to Germany planned this summer. Going to be spending just short of two weeks there, ending with a 5 day music festival. Trip has been planned since May of last year. Plane tickets were bought in January.
GF works as a lab assistant at the local hospital. She's currently working full time while also doing online classes for an MLT degree (Medical Laboratory Technician). She's not a Mustachian, but she is frugal and very financially responsible, so despite only making about $55k a year she still saves a considerable amount of her income (I don't know exactly how much, but probably close to 50% of her take home). As a result, she's in a very good spot financially (a year of expenses in savings plus about the same amount invested in the market) and understands that she has FU money.
She put her PTO request in for the Germany trip back in January when the plane tickets were purchased. PTO was approved, no issues. Fast forward to 3 weeks ago, GF gets sick. Ends up being COVID, and hospital requires that she not return to work until symptom free. This ends up being about 2 weeks. At beginning of quarantine period GF speaks with HR representative over the phone and asks about the time off will be handled in terms of filing for short term disability, using PTO, etcetera. Is told that her PTO will not be impacted if she files for short term disability. Sweet!
GF returns to work after recovering from COVID to be told that actually her PTO *was* used, and now she doesn't have enough to cover the Germany trip this summer. Oops! Manager says she will need to "change her trip plans" now that she doesn't have enough PTO. GF explains that she will not be changing her travel plans, and that despite the fact that she was told by HR that her PTO would not be impacted by her sick leave, she is fine with just taking unpaid leave if necessary for the vacation. Manager says nope, "We can't give you that much time off without PTO." GF says "Alright, well then consider this my notice that I'll be quitting when I leave for my trip in July."
Manager is gobsmacked. "You'd risk your job over a trip?" GF explains that though she likes her job and the people she works with, she doesn't need the job and they are not paying her enough to issue her ultimatums. She tells them that she can easily find a job that pays more than what they are paying her (which is absolutely true, there are entry level factory jobs in our area that pay more with no experience needed) and the trip has more value to her than the job.
Next day at work manager states that they are going to allow her the time off and expresses a desire to further incentivize her to stay with the company.
Moral of the story? Middle managers fear workers with FU Money.
This kind of thing gobsmacks me. I have never ever changed vacation plans for any of my companies. I plan MONTHS ahead. Sure, I occasionally will call in on PTO, if it's a staycation, or if I'm taking 2 weeks visiting family in the summer.
But I've worked with people (at my same companies) who do this and expect others too and ... nope.
My BFF many years ago refused to go back to the job she had left, the institution where I had been able to get her introduced, temped, and later permanently employed. She went off to the private sector during the dot com bubble, and was convinced she was gonna strike it big. For various reasons (poor judgment!), she got sacked after just a month at a tech firm, and then started 2+ years of under employment. She *finally* came back, but that two year gap meant she started back as an entry level applicant, and she never advanced after that.
I am glad that you can look at the situation and make a strategic retrench decision. Having a decent organization as we eke out the last few years until FI is an excellent outcome. Fingers are crossed.
I’d hold off on the HR notification. There are lots of other stressors that could have tilted your boss to reacting negatively. Remember, the boss is a person, too. Maybe there are upper management pressures or demands. Maybe there is something going on in his personal life. If you’ve worked for/with this person for a long time, could you ask for a phone call and then ask him if he’s doing okay? It sounds like you’re ratcheting things up which will only increase the pressure on him. Definitely keep the documentation and be ready to use if you need it, but treat your boss like a person first, like you would like to be treated if you ever crossed the line.
I’d hold off on the HR notification. There are lots of other stressors that could have tilted your boss to reacting negatively. Remember, the boss is a person, too. Maybe there are upper management pressures or demands. Maybe there is something going on in his personal life. If you’ve worked for/with this person for a long time, could you ask for a phone call and then ask him if he’s doing okay? It sounds like you’re ratcheting things up which will only increase the pressure on him. Definitely keep the documentation and be ready to use if you need it, but treat your boss like a person first, like you would like to be treated if you ever crossed the line.
Based on my experience with employment disputes, I'm fairly confident that the boss contacted HR right after the OP mentioned it first and he probably received advice on how to respond.
If you had a rare one off event, I wouldn't stress out. Could be many personal things going on.
But it sounds like your boss was just having a bad week. If this is the first time he's freaked out, so what? Maybe his kid is sick or his wife is leaving him or his mom is dying or something totally unrelated to work. If it becomes a habit, that's when action is required.
If you had a rare one off event, I wouldn't stress out. Could be many personal things going on.
An ex-boss, who's a really awesome guy, suddenly started acting weirdly, barking out instructions verbally in meetings and in writing. I was the first recipient of it, but others noticed it too. I reached out; turns out he was dealing with stress from illness of a parent, and the death of another close relative. Asked him how we could help; the team ended managing themselves while he took a week off, and divided some of his tasks.
If you had a rare one off event, I wouldn't stress out. Could be many personal things going on.
An ex-boss, who's a really awesome guy, suddenly started acting weirdly, barking out instructions verbally in meetings and in writing. I was the first recipient of it, but others noticed it too. I reached out; turns out he was dealing with stress from illness of a parent, and the death of another close relative. Asked him how we could help; the team ended managing themselves while he took a week off, and divided some of his tasks.
+1. It's perfectly ok to say "is something up? This isn't like you." (Indeed, it was when my former mentor asked me that question that I was forced to acknowledge that I was in the middle of a major depression and needed help to pull myself out).
But in any event, congrats for being in a position where you felt like you could stand firm.
...
Working in the DoD, we have annual training to remind us of significant behavior changes. They are to be reported. They could amount to nothing, or something bigger. In the worst cases, undetected/unreported behavior indicators can lead to compromising information and a threat to national security.
Wife's a CPA; she has similar annual training. It seems that behavior changes in the corporate world are encouraged to be reported.
BLUF: Planning on leaving a well-paid job due to false promises, bad contracting, and insufficient staffing, while being able to sleep well and not worry. That's FU Money power.
Not epic, so far, but could be as things happen...
Started with a new company recently, huge raise from previous employer.
The technical lead on this project and the project manager, who don't work for my employer, told my corporate boss that I should be more proactive and accept additional tasks and it'll be great for my career. This is only 30 days in, while I still didn't have access to the SW development tools, accounts, etc, and was going thru the customer site's processes. My corporate boss and his boss started raising their voices in the meeting, without listening to me. Red Flag 1.
New position's requirements were A, B, C. Now they've added D, E, F, G to it. I've pushed back. They know I'm not going to fold. I know they don't like my attitude. Also want me to work on software sales (which I have zero training in, and don't know the product). Red Flag 2.
During recruiting, was told that I'd be a member of a team (employees of other companies) which was fully staffed and that I was to be at the customer site daily. (Don't have an issue with the commute, I enjoy a hybrid/onsite schedule.) Turns out that everyone on this team works multiple contracts, and none of them are full-time onsite, not even 50%. Plus, the other teams I'm supposed to work with onsite, they work from home 3+ days a week. So I'm wondering how do I get tasks accomplished, especially since most of my work is on internal networks that are inaccessible from home. Red Flag 3.
I was told that I'd be starting my own team soon. The contract I'm on is up for renewal in a couple of months, and it'll get renewed. But the idea of building my team is dead, that plan was hijacked by another larger firm on the same contract. My employer knew this, but didn't tell me. Red Flag 4.
Wrote down pros/cons of old employer vs new one. Discussed with my wife. Talked to ex-coworkers, my old position hasn't been filled. Ex-employer has trouble filling openings. Ex-CW-1 is going to talk to his boss, my ex-boss, to have me come back. Informed Ex-CW-2 about new employer's Red Flags, as they're trying to recruit them. Ex-CW-1 gets to collect hiringbonusbounty on me.
I told wife not to worry, there aren't enough IT/SW engineers with DoD clearance, that I'd be getting LinkedIn offers like crazy if I set my profile to #OpenToWork. Also we have enough in emergency account that I don't have to work for a couple of years. We're technically FI. House is paid off. Rental income covers our living expenses. I could stay home, work out daily, longer bike rides, cook 3 meals daily, do yard work, get bathrooms renovated, start the vegetable/herb garden we've always wanted, volunteer at the school. And spend time with my retired dad. Told my wife it'd be my dream come true to be a house husband / kept man / soccer-sports dad.
With the political bumfuckery in my state, I could even home school my kids, if their very good schools got proper fucked.
UPDATE: ex-CW-1 said ex-boss wants me to return and will reach out. Meeting ex-CW-1 tomorrow to discuss more.
UPDATE2: talked to ex-boss today. They want me back; we talked compensation and start date. Fingers crossed. Initially getting my old position, plus additional responsibilities to work part-time with an automation team - something that I had wanted to do last year but could contractually. They won a new long-term contract and more, opening up possibilities to pick & choose what I can dabble in. Have fun AND get paid.
This past weekend I learned of a potentially Epic FU story brewing within my extended family.
Backstory: Eldest nephew got his Associates Degree in May 2020 and decided not to transfer to a 4 year school right away because he didn't want to be taking online courses while paying on campus level tuition. That summer he was promoted to entry level management at the big box store where he worked. Still lived at home, low expenses, saved a bunch of money so he'd be able to pay cash whenever he went back for his degree.
He starts looking around his company and realizes that there are opportunities to move up the ladder if he's willing to move geographically. So he applies for and receives a promotion to go to a store near where his other grandparents live, stays with them for a while, and then gets another promotion in that geographic area.
At that point, he decides he's fine with moving around if that gets him up the ladder, and he takes another promotion that puts him in a big city almost a day's drive away. All is going great, he can put in for another promotion after he's been there a year, and he's eligible to start training for the next level about 9 months after the transfer.
Except there's a manager in his chain who was replaced about 4-5 months ago, and the new guy has a reputation for never letting anyone transfer out. He knows my nephew makes his store look good and he wants to keep his claws in. This guy is blocking my nephew from starting training for the next level. Other stores are actively recruiting my nephew to transfer to them for promotions, but without an overrule from corporate, he won't be allowed to do that.
Nephew is a young guy with no kids, no mortgage, no local family where he currently is. In fact, he's even young enough to go back on his parent's health insurance still. This company doesn't even have any golden handcuffs besides annual bonuses. All that the idiot upper management guy should already have access to know. What he may not know on top of that is that nephew has a much bigger emergency fund than people twice his age and this may be the push he needs to go back to being a college student and finish his Bachelors degree.
BLUF: Planning on leaving a well-paid job due to false promises, bad contracting, and insufficient staffing, while being able to sleep well and not worry. That's FU Money power.
Not epic, so far, but could be as things happen...
Started with a new company recently, huge raise from previous employer.
The technical lead on this project and the project manager, who don't work for my employer, told my corporate boss that I should be more proactive and accept additional tasks and it'll be great for my career. This is only 30 days in, while I still didn't have access to the SW development tools, accounts, etc, and was going thru the customer site's processes. My corporate boss and his boss started raising their voices in the meeting, without listening to me. Red Flag 1.
New position's requirements were A, B, C. Now they've added D, E, F, G to it. I've pushed back. They know I'm not going to fold. I know they don't like my attitude. Also want me to work on software sales (which I have zero training in, and don't know the product). Red Flag 2.
During recruiting, was told that I'd be a member of a team (employees of other companies) which was fully staffed and that I was to be at the customer site daily. (Don't have an issue with the commute, I enjoy a hybrid/onsite schedule.) Turns out that everyone on this team works multiple contracts, and none of them are full-time onsite, not even 50%. Plus, the other teams I'm supposed to work with onsite, they work from home 3+ days a week. So I'm wondering how do I get tasks accomplished, especially since most of my work is on internal networks that are inaccessible from home. Red Flag 3.
I was told that I'd be starting my own team soon. The contract I'm on is up for renewal in a couple of months, and it'll get renewed. But the idea of building my team is dead, that plan was hijacked by another larger firm on the same contract. My employer knew this, but didn't tell me. Red Flag 4.
Wrote down pros/cons of old employer vs new one. Discussed with my wife. Talked to ex-coworkers, my old position hasn't been filled. Ex-employer has trouble filling openings. Ex-CW-1 is going to talk to his boss, my ex-boss, to have me come back. Informed Ex-CW-2 about new employer's Red Flags, as they're trying to recruit them. Ex-CW-1 gets to collect hiringbonusbounty on me.
I told wife not to worry, there aren't enough IT/SW engineers with DoD clearance, that I'd be getting LinkedIn offers like crazy if I set my profile to #OpenToWork. Also we have enough in emergency account that I don't have to work for a couple of years. We're technically FI. House is paid off. Rental income covers our living expenses. I could stay home, work out daily, longer bike rides, cook 3 meals daily, do yard work, get bathrooms renovated, start the vegetable/herb garden we've always wanted, volunteer at the school. And spend time with my retired dad. Told my wife it'd be my dream come true to be a house husband / kept man / soccer-sports dad.
With the political bumfuckery in my state, I could even home school my kids, if their very good schools got proper fucked.
UPDATE: ex-CW-1 said ex-boss wants me to return and will reach out. Meeting ex-CW-1 tomorrow to discuss more.
UPDATE2: talked to ex-boss today. They want me back; we talked compensation and start date. Fingers crossed. Initially getting my old position, plus additional responsibilities to work part-time with an automation team - something that I had wanted to do last year but could contractually. They won a new long-term contract and more, opening up possibilities to pick & choose what I can dabble in. Have fun AND get paid.
Update: Old boss contacted me later in the week. It's 99.9%, pending confirmation from CEO/CTO. Written offer ETA Monday.
Meanwhile, I've suddenly become Big ManTM. The tech lead has some family health stuff going on, so he's out for who knows how long. The PM has this habit of disappearing on Fridays when tech lead is out. In a bi-weekly meeting, come to find out that project hours are overburn, and work that is beyond my abilities and job description is being dumped on me, everyone else's hours are cut and they're put on other projects (they can't cut mine due to contractual bindings). I've started saying "yes" to everything. And when the notice drops, I'll be watching the PM scramble to get these folks back on this project and deliver.
Meanwhile, the customer processes are shit and burning out the good, young, inexperienced engineers, who've been complaining to me. I've been guiding them to make it Other People's Problem. And the best way to solve it is to make it the problem of someone a level or two above their lead.
Update: Got offer. Signed. Done. Getting my old laptop back from ex-boss soon. He's planning to surprise the team by inviting me to an employee chill-out event next week. Only ex-CW-1 knows but is keeping mum.
Meanwhile, it seems no one at this customer wants to do work, everyone passing the buck. They wanted me to work the security assessor's tasks; I gave a polite "i'll bear it in mind". Ref: https://www.angmohdan.com/48-things-british-people-say-and-what-they-actually-mean/
Taking a couple of days off for some family time. Giving my notice in Monday, a professional 2 weeks courtesy. It isn't a rule, but my industry is a smallish niche world and people are within half the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.
Then taking a week off between the jobs, get a couple of home projects completed. It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.
Update: Got offer. Signed. Done. Getting my old laptop back from ex-boss soon. He's planning to surprise the team by inviting me to an employee chill-out event next week. Only ex-CW-1 knows but is keeping mum.
Meanwhile, it seems no one at this customer wants to do work, everyone passing the buck. They wanted me to work the security assessor's tasks; I gave a polite "i'll bear it in mind". Ref: https://www.angmohdan.com/48-things-british-people-say-and-what-they-actually-mean/
Taking a couple of days off for some family time. Giving my notice in Monday, a professional 2 weeks courtesy. It isn't a rule, but my industry is a smallish niche world and people are within half the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.
Then taking a week off between the jobs, get a couple of home projects completed. It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.
Nice, congrats! It's hard to go back to an old job without some animosity on their part, so their excitement speaks well to both your reputation, and how you handled your original departure.
It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.
It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.
I often forget that the average person is one missed paycheck away from being late on bills, and a couple months of missed paychecks away from financial insolvency.
In the midst of COVID I had some coworkers who were in a panic due to employer's COVID leave policy (couldn't come to work if you had any symptoms, had to file claim for short term disability, would receive full pay after claim got approved) because if they missed a single paycheck they would be unable to put food on the table. Heck, in the last month I've seen two coworkers' debit cards get declined when trying to buy a soda out of the break room vending machine the day before payday. "What?! I could have sworn I had enough money in there..."
That sounds like a good candidate to submit to the Mustachian People Problems (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/mustachian-people-problems-(just-for-fun)/) thread.It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.
I often forget that the average person is one missed paycheck away from being late on bills, and a couple months of missed paychecks away from financial insolvency.
In the midst of COVID I had some coworkers who were in a panic due to employer's COVID leave policy (couldn't come to work if you had any symptoms, had to file claim for short term disability, would receive full pay after claim got approved) because if they missed a single paycheck they would be unable to put food on the table. Heck, in the last month I've seen two coworkers' debit cards get declined when trying to buy a soda out of the break room vending machine the day before payday. "What?! I could have sworn I had enough money in there..."
I had that a while back, scheduled deposits to savings was set a bit too agressively where it got transferred to my stash on the exact day it was payday. Problem was, my bank processes outgoing before incoming so with days where paydays on the latest possible day my balance went to close to 0 (or the different scheduled savings deposits bounced).
Since then I've adjusted the schedule to process 1 day after payday.
Transfer from savings is immediately active so no harm done 😂
Not really 'epic', but something I was comfortable asking because I have enough money in the bank: parental leave (I'm in Belgium). I have 3 months left of parental leave for my youngest daughter, who turns 12 this Saturday. Starting today (the last possible day, just before she turns 12), I will spread the leave out and work 1/5 less for 15 months, divided over the whole workweek: I'll work 9-4 Mo, Tu, Th, Fr, and 9-12 We. It will of course cut my pay and benefits by 1/5, too, but that's fine. We will manage nicely.
It may even be benificial, because I have more time to organise the family, our home, hobbies, trips, cooking, kitchen gardening, etc.
It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.
I often forget that the average person is one missed paycheck away from being late on bills, and a couple months of missed paychecks away from financial insolvency.
In the midst of COVID I had some coworkers who were in a panic due to employer's COVID leave policy (couldn't come to work if you had any symptoms, had to file claim for short term disability, would receive full pay after claim got approved) because if they missed a single paycheck they would be unable to put food on the table. Heck, in the last month I've seen two coworkers' debit cards get declined when trying to buy a soda out of the break room vending machine the day before payday. "What?! I could have sworn I had enough money in there..."
I had that a while back, scheduled deposits to savings was set a bit too agressively where it got transferred to my stash on the exact day it was payday. Problem was, my bank processes outgoing before incoming so with days where paydays on the latest possible day my balance went to close to 0 (or the different scheduled savings deposits bounced).
Since then I've adjusted the schedule to process 1 day after payday.
Transfer from savings is immediately active so no harm done 😂
Update: Got offer. Signed. Done. Getting my old laptop back from ex-boss soon. He's planning to surprise the team by inviting me to an employee chill-out event next week. Only ex-CW-1 knows but is keeping mum.
Meanwhile, it seems no one at this customer wants to do work, everyone passing the buck. They wanted me to work the security assessor's tasks; I gave a polite "i'll bear it in mind". Ref: https://www.angmohdan.com/48-things-british-people-say-and-what-they-actually-mean/
Taking a couple of days off for some family time. Giving my notice in Monday, a professional 2 weeks courtesy. It isn't a rule, but my industry is a smallish niche world and people are within half the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.
Then taking a week off between the jobs, get a couple of home projects completed. It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.
Nice, congrats! It's hard to go back to an old job without some animosity on their part, so their excitement speaks well to both your reputation, and how you handled your original departure.
I had an excellent 5+ years at the company, learned a lot, great mentors and amazing co-workers. Upon my leaving, the CEO gave a written offer for me to return, at any time.
I left only because a stupidly crazy offer came, which I rejected the first time, then took it the second time. It was something that I thought I'd live to regret because I was getting a chance to work with a company known for innovation. Unfortunately, due to several red flags, it didn't work out. People don't leave bad jobs, they leave bad managers. Or something like that.
My current employer is going through some merger/acquisition drama that is making life difficult and may eliminate my job in the next year or two so things are "interesting." A previous work-friend texted me a few weeks ago that he's now a director at a past employer and has a position to fill that might work for me. Sounded like a cool gig - better title, interesting tech, and a 50% pay increase (!).
The problem is that company had a very bad corporate culture and I left there for some strong reasons that included dealing with the people on the team this position is with. While chatting with him about it, most of the people that were there have left (high turnover) so things might be better, but there were some notable folks still around. It was tough, but I managed to convince myself it would be OK and it would shave a few years off my FIRE journey. I'd also get ahead of the potential instability in my current gig. I forced myself into a positive attitude about the job and went for it.
I made it through the multiple rounds of interviews but in the end they said no. :( I was pretty bummed. Then it hit me... Why am I so bummed about a job I had such a struggle to convince myself to even apply for? And if the current gig goes away, who cares! I can be unemployed for a few years with no changes to my lifestyle (longer if I cut out some rather spendy hobbies). My spending is low enough I could also just coastFIRE for a few extra years in a simpler job and still fully retire pretty early.
I've logically known it while thinking in the abstract but when the situation actually happened it was a minor revelation to realize I'm in a position where I really don't have to care much about what these other people do or think. I can't completely remove myself from the nonsense (FIRE), yet, but having the resources opens up so many options that these bumps really don't matter.
I made an output from my banks transfers and limited myself to the 25th (payday), most of the time the bank handles my scheduled savings (within the same account) before incoming and outgoing last. There are a few where outgoing is handled before incoming, assuming the output corresponds with the processing order.It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.
I often forget that the average person is one missed paycheck away from being late on bills, and a couple months of missed paychecks away from financial insolvency.
In the midst of COVID I had some coworkers who were in a panic due to employer's COVID leave policy (couldn't come to work if you had any symptoms, had to file claim for short term disability, would receive full pay after claim got approved) because if they missed a single paycheck they would be unable to put food on the table. Heck, in the last month I've seen two coworkers' debit cards get declined when trying to buy a soda out of the break room vending machine the day before payday. "What?! I could have sworn I had enough money in there..."
I had that a while back, scheduled deposits to savings was set a bit too agressively where it got transferred to my stash on the exact day it was payday. Problem was, my bank processes outgoing before incoming so with days where paydays on the latest possible day my balance went to close to 0 (or the different scheduled savings deposits bounced).
Since then I've adjusted the schedule to process 1 day after payday.
Transfer from savings is immediately active so no harm done 😂
I'm surprised to hear outgoing before ingoing is legal in the Netherlands. Even here in super business friendly USA that practice has been outlawed.
BLUF: Planning on leaving a well-paid job due to false promises, bad contracting, and insufficient staffing, while being able to sleep well and not worry. That's FU Money power.
Not epic, so far, but could be as things happen...
<snip>
Update: Old boss contacted me later in the week. It's 99.9%, pending confirmation from CEO/CTO. Written offer ETA Monday.
<snip>
Update: Got offer. Signed. Done.
<snip>
Giving my notice in Monday, a professional 2 weeks courtesy. It isn't a rule, but my industry is a smallish niche world and people are within half the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.
<snip>
When an employee decides to leave, their manager and Human Resources should be immediately notified. The employee will provide <employer> with a written two-week notice.
BLUF: Planning on leaving a well-paid job due to false promises, bad contracting, and insufficient staffing, while being able to sleep well and not worry. That's FU Money power.
Not epic, so far, but could be as things happen...
<snip>
Update: Old boss contacted me later in the week. It's 99.9%, pending confirmation from CEO/CTO. Written offer ETA Monday.
<snip>
Update: Got offer. Signed. Done.
<snip>
Giving my notice in Monday, a professional 2 weeks courtesy. It isn't a rule, but my industry is a smallish niche world and people are within half the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.
<snip>
Final Update: Gave in my approx 2 week resignation notice today. They asked that I work the rest of the week, then I'm out. I was OK with that.
Then a little bit later, they said tomorrow was to be my last day. Had a call with HR; pointed out that the employee handbook states:QuoteWhen an employee decides to leave, their manager and Human Resources should be immediately notified. The employee will provide <employer> with a written two-week notice.
HR said they couldn't afford to keep me on overhead since the (external) contract PM wanted my last day to be tomorrow.
So much for professional courtesy. Next time, a 24H notice should suffice. And then they asked me to fill out an exit survey.
2.5 weeks for home improvement projects and long cycling rides. Then I'll start the new position. Thanks FU money.
This is the type of information that needs to be spread among all the employees, starting NOW. Make sure that every employee knows that if they are ready to quit, they might as well give zero notice, since the company isn't going to pay them for the two weeks anyway.QuoteWhen an employee decides to leave, their manager and Human Resources should be immediately notified. The employee will provide <employer> with a written two-week notice.
HR said they couldn't afford to keep me on overhead since the (external) contract PM wanted my last day to be tomorrow.
So much for professional courtesy. Next time, a 24H notice should suffice. And then they asked me to fill out an exit survey.
2.5 weeks for home improvement projects and long cycling rides. Then I'll start the new position. Thanks FU money.
Probably at-will employment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment).This is the type of information that needs to be spread among all the employees, starting NOW. Make sure that every employee knows that if they are ready to quit, they might as well give zero notice, since the company isn't going to pay them for the two weeks anyway.QuoteWhen an employee decides to leave, their manager and Human Resources should be immediately notified. The employee will provide <employer> with a written two-week notice.
HR said they couldn't afford to keep me on overhead since the (external) contract PM wanted my last day to be tomorrow.
So much for professional courtesy. Next time, a 24H notice should suffice. And then they asked me to fill out an exit survey.
2.5 weeks for home improvement projects and long cycling rides. Then I'll start the new position. Thanks FU money.
Hang on, is that even legal for them to lay you off without pay the next day after you gave them two weeks' notice? I mean, the "two week notice" requirement in the company policy would support the idea that they can't just cut you off. And if they tell you to buzz off after one day, does that not count as involuntary separation and qualify you for unemployment benefits?
Final Update: Gave in my approx 2 week resignation notice today. They asked that I work the rest of the week, then I'm out. I was OK with that.You're likely entitled to unemployment payments for those 2 weeks - they fired you, and it was not "for cause"
Then a little bit later, they said tomorrow was to be my last day. Had a call with HR; pointed out that the employee handbook states:QuoteWhen an employee decides to leave, their manager and Human Resources should be immediately notified. The employee will provide <employer> with a written two-week notice.
Final Update: Gave in my approx 2 week resignation notice today. They asked that I work the rest of the week, then I'm out. I was OK with that.You're likely entitled to unemployment payments for those 2 weeks - they fired you, and it was not "for cause"
Then a little bit later, they said tomorrow was to be my last day. Had a call with HR; pointed out that the employee handbook states:QuoteWhen an employee decides to leave, their manager and Human Resources should be immediately notified. The employee will provide <employer> with a written two-week notice.
@RWD you're right, at-will.
@Turtle yep, they showed their true colors. My future boss, aka old boss at ex-employer, said this company made a shitty move.
@dhc @TomTX [member=8971]zolotiyeruki[/member] it's a right-to-work state. I'm not a petty person out to spite them. It just ain't worth it for 2.5 weeks of pay. Even if I was to win UI, the monies wouldn't amount to 0.25% of our net worth. Amazing what LBYM can do, having emergency funds, and all those prudent things.
But I'll do them justice in the exit survey. And I know a couple of people who interviewed with them, so you know... ;-)
It'll be a huge hassle to file UI, document, etc. I'd rather do more productive things around the house and garden and go for long bike rides.
But I'll do them justice in the exit survey. And I know a couple of people who interviewed with them, so you know... ;-)
But I'll do them justice in the exit survey. And I know a couple of people who interviewed with them, so you know... ;-)
I would not assume that the survey is anonymous and would remember that it could get shared around and be read by someone out of context or get selectively edited.
When, in the history of human existence, has an exit interview created lasting change?But I'll do them justice in the exit survey. And I know a couple of people who interviewed with them, so you know... ;-)
I would not assume that the survey is anonymous and would remember that it could get shared around and be read by someone out of context or get selectively edited.
It isn’t anonymous. I’ve never burned bridges in the past, and I don’t intend to. My survey responses will be professional and direct. No personal attacks.
My internal voice is singing: https://youtu.be/Vqbk9cDX0l0 and https://youtu.be/cE4lpSFNFUE
Good for you, Jinga! Adding that, at least in my state, you've got a waiting week that is unpaid, so you'd really only be looking at 1 week's pay. Glad you're in a position to not need to stress about it!Here in Texas, the "waiting week" isn't actually unpaid, it's just delayed until the end of UI.
Another suggestion for your internal playlist... :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFE6qQ3ySXE
Ahem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0k5Q5OFGToAnother suggestion for your internal playlist... :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFE6qQ3ySXE
Or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDv5bqmkOl8, probably the shortest anti-job song around.
Ahem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0k5Q5OFGToAnother suggestion for your internal playlist... :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFE6qQ3ySXE
Or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDv5bqmkOl8, probably the shortest anti-job song around.
When, in the history of human existence, has an exit interview created lasting change?Harsh!
I have always loved this ad (the company sells retirement/investment funds).
https://youtu.be/zKEcN40DrUs
I have always loved this ad (the company sells retirement/investment funds).
https://youtu.be/zKEcN40DrUs
Yeah, the dumping of his personal items in the trash is the best. "nothing even remotely associated with this building has any value for me"
I have always loved this ad (the company sells retirement/investment funds).
https://youtu.be/zKEcN40DrUs
Yeah, the dumping of his personal items in the trash is the best. "nothing even remotely associated with this building has any value for me"
Yeah, the dumping of his personal items in the trash is the best. "nothing even remotely associated with this building has any value for me"
I have always loved this ad (the company sells retirement/investment funds).
https://youtu.be/zKEcN40DrUs
Yeah, the dumping of his personal items in the trash is the best. "nothing even remotely associated with this building has any value for me"
And he's not that old and can still do a high kick - he's going to have a great retirement!
The fact that you had bad experiences there in the past combined with the fact that they put you through multiple rounds before saying no even with a referral from a director makes it seem like (at least to me) that you dodged a pretty big bullet there.
The fact that you had bad experiences there in the past combined with the fact that they put you through multiple rounds before saying no even with a referral from a director makes it seem like (at least to me) that you dodged a pretty big bullet there.
@ChickenStash don't mean to get in the habit of digging up older posts, but wanted to provide some context here. Last year I applied for an internal promotion position at my company, and HR policy stated that "all candidates must be interviewed", regardless of the position or the candidate. So the HR admin (who I'd worked with for years) scheduled an interview with my now co-workers (who I'd also worked with for years; they were in an adjacent group but we interacted often). I took it seriously and wore a suit and everything.
For the 3 hours of "interviews", many jokes were made about the fact that I decided to wear a suit (and a tie!), and the one piece of advice I got from the technical lead (but not supervisor) in the group was "make sure you ask for more money when you get the offer!". Sure enough I got the offer and am in the position now- I feel like that's how things should be done if they are required by corporate policy.
...
I haven't read all this thread yet and don't really have an epic FU story but did have a great Peter Gibbons moment: Worked a 10 hour/4 day work week at my old Gov agency. Core hours 6 am to 4:30 plus one week a month on call 24/7 and tons of OT including holidays, weekends, and nights so pretty heavy work load mostly in the outdoors in all weather.
One day the Director told us we were changing to a 9/80 schedule with new hours to start at 7:30 am and every other Fri on. I did my best Peter Gibbons imitation: "gee Bob that's not gonna work for me so I'm not going to do it and will continue to come in a 6 am and work 4 days a week". Bob get flustered: " but but but you can't do that! You have to start coming in at 7:30 and work until 5." Me: " yeah...no I'm just gonna come in at 6 and work to 4:30". Bob: "....!!!!". Me: " been swell talking to you Bob now I gonna pretend like Im working so you need to go away now. I'll see you tomorrow at 6." Bob: ".....!!!!!...."
My current employer is going through some merger/acquisition drama that is making life difficult and may eliminate my job in the next year or two so things are "interesting." A previous work-friend texted me a few weeks ago that he's now a director at a past employer and has a position to fill that might work for me. Sounded like a cool gig - better title, interesting tech, and a 50% pay increase (!).
The problem is that company had a very bad corporate culture and I left there for some strong reasons that included dealing with the people on the team this position is with. While chatting with him about it, most of the people that were there have left (high turnover) so things might be better, but there were some notable folks still around. It was tough, but I managed to convince myself it would be OK and it would shave a few years off my FIRE journey. I'd also get ahead of the potential instability in my current gig. I forced myself into a positive attitude about the job and went for it.
I made it through the multiple rounds of interviews but in the end they said no. :(
...
My current employer is going through some merger/acquisition drama that is making life difficult and may eliminate my job in the next year or two so things are "interesting." A previous work-friend texted me a few weeks ago that he's now a director at a past employer and has a position to fill that might work for me. Sounded like a cool gig - better title, interesting tech, and a 50% pay increase (!).
The problem is that company had a very bad corporate culture and I left there for some strong reasons that included dealing with the people on the team this position is with. While chatting with him about it, most of the people that were there have left (high turnover) so things might be better, but there were some notable folks still around. It was tough, but I managed to convince myself it would be OK and it would shave a few years off my FIRE journey. I'd also get ahead of the potential instability in my current gig. I forced myself into a positive attitude about the job and went for it.
I made it through the multiple rounds of interviews but in the end they said no. :(
...
The Drama Llama enters stage right...
They called back this afternoon to say they rewrote the job description to better match my skill set and they are offering me the position. Only a 40% raise, though (this does actually make sense given the rewrite).
Stream of thoughts... So now I have to decide if things are different enough from then to now to try this. With the changes in management and high turnover, they are likely different. I know I'm different after leaving there and my outlook on work is a lot different from where I was on my FIRE journey at that time - this joint is what actually made me search out FIRE. I can't predict if things would be better but if they are significantly dissimilar then that's something.
On the positive side, the pay bump cuts my full FIRE time by about 2 years (7>5), in theory. Possibly more as there is room in the scale that my current gig doesn't have (not raise eligible). I'd also no longer be in an oncall rotation and might only have to handle a few after-hours calls a year if something big blows up.
Decisions, decisions....
My current employer is going through some merger/acquisition drama that is making life difficult and may eliminate my job in the next year or two so things are "interesting." A previous work-friend texted me a few weeks ago that he's now a director at a past employer and has a position to fill that might work for me. Sounded like a cool gig - better title, interesting tech, and a 50% pay increase (!).
The problem is that company had a very bad corporate culture and I left there for some strong reasons that included dealing with the people on the team this position is with. While chatting with him about it, most of the people that were there have left (high turnover) so things might be better, but there were some notable folks still around. It was tough, but I managed to convince myself it would be OK and it would shave a few years off my FIRE journey. I'd also get ahead of the potential instability in my current gig. I forced myself into a positive attitude about the job and went for it.
I made it through the multiple rounds of interviews but in the end they said no. :(
...
The Drama Llama enters stage right...
They called back this afternoon to say they rewrote the job description to better match my skill set and they are offering me the position. Only a 40% raise, though (this does actually make sense given the rewrite).
Stream of thoughts... So now I have to decide if things are different enough from then to now to try this. With the changes in management and high turnover, they are likely different. I know I'm different after leaving there and my outlook on work is a lot different from where I was on my FIRE journey at that time - this joint is what actually made me search out FIRE. I can't predict if things would be better but if they are significantly dissimilar then that's something.
On the positive side, the pay bump cuts my full FIRE time by about 2 years (7>5), in theory. Possibly more as there is room in the scale that my current gig doesn't have (not raise eligible). I'd also no longer be in an oncall rotation and might only have to handle a few after-hours calls a year if something big blows up.
Decisions, decisions....
Can you talk to anyone currently, or more recently, there? Get a sense of culture, management, etc?
Obviously you need to decide based on a range of things other than money. But they don't know what your decision criteria is. The fact that they've done this in this way suggests to me that they are desperate to get you across the line. If you do decide to take the role, it feels like you're in a position of strength in terms of negotiating salary. I wouldn't make threats, but if you decide you want the role you might want to say something like this:My current employer is going through some merger/acquisition drama that is making life difficult and may eliminate my job in the next year or two so things are "interesting." A previous work-friend texted me a few weeks ago that he's now a director at a past employer and has a position to fill that might work for me. Sounded like a cool gig - better title, interesting tech, and a 50% pay increase (!).
The problem is that company had a very bad corporate culture and I left there for some strong reasons that included dealing with the people on the team this position is with. While chatting with him about it, most of the people that were there have left (high turnover) so things might be better, but there were some notable folks still around. It was tough, but I managed to convince myself it would be OK and it would shave a few years off my FIRE journey. I'd also get ahead of the potential instability in my current gig. I forced myself into a positive attitude about the job and went for it.
I made it through the multiple rounds of interviews but in the end they said no. :(
...
The Drama Llama enters stage right...
They called back this afternoon to say they rewrote the job description to better match my skill set and they are offering me the position. Only a 40% raise, though (this does actually make sense given the rewrite).
Stream of thoughts... So now I have to decide if things are different enough from then to now to try this. With the changes in management and high turnover, they are likely different. I know I'm different after leaving there and my outlook on work is a lot different from where I was on my FIRE journey at that time - this joint is what actually made me search out FIRE. I can't predict if things would be better but if they are significantly dissimilar then that's something.
On the positive side, the pay bump cuts my full FIRE time by about 2 years (7>5), in theory. Possibly more as there is room in the scale that my current gig doesn't have (not raise eligible). I'd also no longer be in an oncall rotation and might only have to handle a few after-hours calls a year if something big blows up.
Decisions, decisions....
Not sure this is going to be an epic FU story but it's ongoing so we'll see.Fast forward a bit and I've got 2 2nd round interviews lined up and a very concerned manager trying hard to keep me (still no actual offer though). I told my manager I'd seriously consider staying but it also depend on the other offers (mainly need flexible hours for DS's care appointments which is almost weekly).
I'm in a big project, our ERP system is being upgraded and I'm responsible for the integrations with other applications. The project is going pretty badly, no technical or functional design was needed according to our manager and as you can expect we're suffering for it during the project.
So bad that pretty much the entire project leadership has been replaced one way or another, including my manager, the lead I was reporting to etc. While we're approaching acceptance we still only have one working integration with the other three main ones coming along.
I've been warning, for months now, that other applications that are not directly connected also need to be tested but it's fallen on deaf ears. My responsibility is the technical workings of the integrations, functional workings are explicitly not.
The main joy I've had from this project was the time where I was working in depth in figuring out how the API worked. Dumping it's contents into Excel, CSV, SQL, whatever. In the past months I've gotten feedback from at least 2 vendors that they really had uses for the scripts I've written, including a Q&A session with the Enterprise Architect of the Microsoft Partner for Business Central solutions. I was like wtf!
I've also gotten direct and indirect comments that my work was being used with other customers (which was fine) and really gave me a confidence boost. So much so that I decided to apply for a job as an integrations developer for a local company.
Here comes the FU money part: I basically wrote my coverletter like "I make programs with powershell to integrate API's, here's my Github and let me know if you can use me."
Next day I see 7 clones (0 up until then) and the day after that I get an invite for a talk with their HR.
In the call I basically state I'm willing to work for them but that I need regular time off for my youngest son (down's syndrome with lots of care appointments) and that I use specific hardware because I'm sensitive to overstim (e-ink display, ANC headphones). So far so good, I'm on to the 2nd of 3 rounds 😗
if you decide you want the role you might want to say something like this:
"We were originally talking about a role paying $X. This has now been revised down to $Y and I do understand the rationale. Remuneration is obviously not my only consideration and I'm genuinely interested, but an offer of $Y is less attractive relative to my current salary and career trajectory than what we were first contemplating."
I had a very open talk with my manager this monday. I really didn't give a fig about letting him know where I was applying and why. He countered by painting a picture where the department is going. Downside is that his position is interim and ends on juli 1st and won't be extended (so, we'll be without a manager for a while probably).This should stand out as a bright, flashing red flag. Several times in my career, I've found myself in a similar position, where a manager has told me about "things that are coming down the pipeline" or "yeah, we have you lined up for project X" or "when X event happens, then you'll see Y improvement at work."
So, get your offers and concessions (salary, project, people you can avoid, etc) first (and in writing!), before you agree to stay.
Agreed.
So, get your offers and concessions (salary, project, people you can avoid, etc) first (and in writing!), before you agree to stay.
This
I'm not planning to fall for it, if they want me to stay they'll have to put it in writing because talk is cheap and writing is gold. I'm fine with them putting requirements on it for me (certification and training) because that's what I'd do if I put someone like me in that position but I'm not giving them the illusion that I'll be doing that in my own time.I had a very open talk with my manager this monday. I really didn't give a fig about letting him know where I was applying and why. He countered by painting a picture where the department is going. Downside is that his position is interim and ends on juli 1st and won't be extended (so, we'll be without a manager for a while probably).This should stand out as a bright, flashing red flag. Several times in my career, I've found myself in a similar position, where a manager has told me about "things that are coming down the pipeline" or "yeah, we have you lined up for project X" or "when X event happens, then you'll see Y improvement at work."
Don't fall for it. Such encouraging words are worth precisely zero, especially when coming from a manager who won't be there to ensure that they come to pass. This is not, by any means, and indictment of the manager--he probably has full intentions of following through to the extent of his abilities. It's just the reality of business. The moment you agree to stay, management no longer have an incentive to do anything to keep you. So, get your offers and concessions (salary, project, people you can avoid, etc) first (and in writing!), before you agree to stay.
Hat tip @Goose
I wanted to make a "Duck, Duck, Goose" joke, but realized it'd be quite fowl. So I chickened out. :p
Hat tip @Goose
I wanted to make a "Duck, Duck, Goose" joke, but realized it'd be quite fowl. So I chickened out. :p
Aw, let the joke fly.
Forward a bit more and they are working on the papers for an internal job-change starting jan 1st. That means the payscale is going up another 2 notches (3 in oktober 2021).Not sure this is going to be an epic FU story but it's ongoing so we'll see.Fast forward a bit and I've got 2 2nd round interviews lined up and a very concerned manager trying hard to keep me (still no actual offer though). I told my manager I'd seriously consider staying but it also depend on the other offers (mainly need flexible hours for DS's care appointments which is almost weekly).
I'm in a big project, our ERP system is being upgraded and I'm responsible for the integrations with other applications. The project is going pretty badly, no technical or functional design was needed according to our manager and as you can expect we're suffering for it during the project.
So bad that pretty much the entire project leadership has been replaced one way or another, including my manager, the lead I was reporting to etc. While we're approaching acceptance we still only have one working integration with the other three main ones coming along.
I've been warning, for months now, that other applications that are not directly connected also need to be tested but it's fallen on deaf ears. My responsibility is the technical workings of the integrations, functional workings are explicitly not.
The main joy I've had from this project was the time where I was working in depth in figuring out how the API worked. Dumping it's contents into Excel, CSV, SQL, whatever. In the past months I've gotten feedback from at least 2 vendors that they really had uses for the scripts I've written, including a Q&A session with the Enterprise Architect of the Microsoft Partner for Business Central solutions. I was like wtf!
I've also gotten direct and indirect comments that my work was being used with other customers (which was fine) and really gave me a confidence boost. So much so that I decided to apply for a job as an integrations developer for a local company.
Here comes the FU money part: I basically wrote my coverletter like "I make programs with powershell to integrate API's, here's my Github and let me know if you can use me."
Next day I see 7 clones (0 up until then) and the day after that I get an invite for a talk with their HR.
In the call I basically state I'm willing to work for them but that I need regular time off for my youngest son (down's syndrome with lots of care appointments) and that I use specific hardware because I'm sensitive to overstim (e-ink display, ANC headphones). So far so good, I'm on to the 2nd of 3 rounds 😗
I had a very open talk with my manager this monday. I really didn't give a fig about letting him know where I was applying and why. He countered by painting a picture where the department is going. Downside is that his position is interim and ends on juli 1st and won't be extended (so, we'll be without a manager for a while probably).
I'm not against staying and if manager's offer is what he laid on the table I'm going to get some distance from a very toxic colleague. It would also create some distance between me and my sysadmin buddies for a subset of colleagues I've only talked with around the coffee table and not as much in actual work relations. I'm still a bit hesitant but I've got the luxury of choice 😜
Not really 'epic', but something I was comfortable asking because I have enough money in the bank: parental leave (I'm in Belgium). I have 3 months left of parental leave for my youngest daughter, who turns 12 this Saturday. Starting today (the last possible day, just before she turns 12), I will spread the leave out and work 1/5 less for 15 months, divided over the whole workweek: I'll work 9-4 Mo, Tu, Th, Fr, and 9-12 We. It will of course cut my pay and benefits by 1/5, too, but that's fine. We will manage nicely.
It may even be benificial, because I have more time to organise the family, our home, hobbies, trips, cooking, kitchen gardening, etc.
I posted a while back about my employer forcing employees back into the office for a few days per week. It seems like a lot of companies have been doing this lately.
Well, in my case, I told my boss that I'd leave my job and retire, if they tried to force me to go to an office for no reason.
Guess what? I received one of the "rare" exemptions granted from HR, from the new policy.
:D
Having FU-Money (or FIRE-able Money) is so nice.
This past weekend I learned of a potentially Epic FU story brewing within my extended family.
Backstory: Eldest nephew got his Associates Degree in May 2020 and decided not to transfer to a 4 year school right away because he didn't want to be taking online courses while paying on campus level tuition. That summer he was promoted to entry level management at the big box store where he worked. Still lived at home, low expenses, saved a bunch of money so he'd be able to pay cash whenever he went back for his degree.
He starts looking around his company and realizes that there are opportunities to move up the ladder if he's willing to move geographically. So he applies for and receives a promotion to go to a store near where his other grandparents live, stays with them for a while, and then gets another promotion in that geographic area.
At that point, he decides he's fine with moving around if that gets him up the ladder, and he takes another promotion that puts him in a big city almost a day's drive away. All is going great, he can put in for another promotion after he's been there a year, and he's eligible to start training for the next level about 9 months after the transfer.
Except there's a manager in his chain who was replaced about 4-5 months ago, and the new guy has a reputation for never letting anyone transfer out. He knows my nephew makes his store look good and he wants to keep his claws in. This guy is blocking my nephew from starting training for the next level. Other stores are actively recruiting my nephew to transfer to them for promotions, but without an overrule from corporate, he won't be allowed to do that.
Nephew is a young guy with no kids, no mortgage, no local family where he currently is. In fact, he's even young enough to go back on his parent's health insurance still. This company doesn't even have any golden handcuffs besides annual bonuses. All that the idiot upper management guy should already have access to know. What he may not know on top of that is that nephew has a much bigger emergency fund than people twice his age and this may be the push he needs to go back to being a college student and finish his Bachelors degree.
This past weekend I learned of a potentially Epic FU story brewing within my extended family.
Backstory: Eldest nephew got his Associates Degree in May 2020 and decided not to transfer to a 4 year school right away because he didn't want to be taking online courses while paying on campus level tuition. That summer he was promoted to entry level management at the big box store where he worked. Still lived at home, low expenses, saved a bunch of money so he'd be able to pay cash whenever he went back for his degree.
He starts looking around his company and realizes that there are opportunities to move up the ladder if he's willing to move geographically. So he applies for and receives a promotion to go to a store near where his other grandparents live, stays with them for a while, and then gets another promotion in that geographic area.
At that point, he decides he's fine with moving around if that gets him up the ladder, and he takes another promotion that puts him in a big city almost a day's drive away. All is going great, he can put in for another promotion after he's been there a year, and he's eligible to start training for the next level about 9 months after the transfer.
Except there's a manager in his chain who was replaced about 4-5 months ago, and the new guy has a reputation for never letting anyone transfer out. He knows my nephew makes his store look good and he wants to keep his claws in. This guy is blocking my nephew from starting training for the next level. Other stores are actively recruiting my nephew to transfer to them for promotions, but without an overrule from corporate, he won't be allowed to do that.
Nephew is a young guy with no kids, no mortgage, no local family where he currently is. In fact, he's even young enough to go back on his parent's health insurance still. This company doesn't even have any golden handcuffs besides annual bonuses. All that the idiot upper management guy should already have access to know. What he may not know on top of that is that nephew has a much bigger emergency fund than people twice his age and this may be the push he needs to go back to being a college student and finish his Bachelors degree.
Update to this one. Eldest nephew has given notice and is starting back to college this month. No word yet on the reaction he got when he turned in said notice.
This isn’t particularly epic, but my mother in law (who earns a relatively modest government salary along with my FIL, but is immigrant-frugal and quite level headed) has been wanting to retire for a while. She’s been staying because she doesn’t want to screw her team over (she is one of the few competent people on a team of boneheads) and she gets a nice bump in pension if she stays another two years. Anyways recently her department head implemented a rule about vacation- you can only take two weeks at a time without special approval that needs to go up the food chain. She doesn’t really take vacations (again, immigrant frugal) but was going to take a month to come help us out after I give birth this fall. We were on the phone discussing logistics and she mentioned that she might need to do a little remote work if her supervisor doesn’t approve the month, but after a moment she said “Well, if he doesn’t approve it, I’ll probably just retire”
Good for her. She’s very conflict-averse as a rule and I feel particularly honored that she would take a stand over something that’s really for my benefit. I got some good in-laws!
This isn’t particularly epic, but my mother in law (who earns a relatively modest government salary along with my FIL, but is immigrant-frugal and quite level headed) has been wanting to retire for a while. She’s been staying because she doesn’t want to screw her team over (she is one of the few competent people on a team of boneheads) and she gets a nice bump in pension if she stays another two years. Anyways recently her department head implemented a rule about vacation- you can only take two weeks at a time without special approval that needs to go up the food chain. She doesn’t really take vacations (again, immigrant frugal) but was going to take a month to come help us out after I give birth this fall. We were on the phone discussing logistics and she mentioned that she might need to do a little remote work if her supervisor doesn’t approve the month, but after a moment she said “Well, if he doesn’t approve it, I’ll probably just retire”
Good for her. She’s very conflict-averse as a rule and I feel particularly honored that she would take a stand over something that’s really for my benefit. I got some good in-laws!
When, in the history of human existence, has an exit interview created lasting change?
QuoteWhen, in the history of human existence, has an exit interview created lasting change?
How would we even know if it created lasting change if we are exiting? Maybe it would make a big difference, or no difference at all.
QuoteWhen, in the history of human existence, has an exit interview created lasting change?
How would we even know if it created lasting change if we are exiting? Maybe it would make a big difference, or no difference at all.
I chose to give a pre-exit interview with both my client and my employer before my supervisor fired me in 30 days.
I told my client I was going to be fired in 30 days, so we needed to take steps to make sure they knew what the status of my projects was. They were surprised because they liked my work and me.
I told my employer what was going on and that I was looking for a new job because I was old enough to know that this kind of situation has a momentum of its own. But they needed to know because otherwise they would be losing yet another good person (I was #3) to the same supervisor. Needless to say, they were surprised.
I got a new job at the same client, down the hall, for more money, more vacation days, and more interesting work.
Six months later my old colleagues at work made a special trip down the hall to tell me security had escorted my old supervisor off the premises.
I made a situation that people wanted to ignore very visible and clear, and once they started paying attention, they realized he was toxic and had to to.
It was a good day. :)
Well it happened yesterday, I quit! Gave 3 weeks notice so my last day is Dec 22. Now I just have to survive any weird attempts to sabotage or force me out the door.
Contracting company guy never showed up Weds, he texted one of us and let us know that his agreement with the hospital is still not finalized and therefore he was asked not to come until it was final. He did drop the bomb that if certain conditions weren't met by the hospital that he would back out of the contract.
Everything came to a head Weds night when I received a call from a physician friend warning me that my older befuddled coworker had had a patient care related accident and was loudly cursing and screaming my name telling everyone that it was my fault. I had been home for hours and had only tangentially touched the item he was using, others had touched it afterwards and he had 4 hours with this particular item to orient himself to it and prepare to use it on a patient. I'm being vague obviously due to the nature of my job and not wanting to get sued. But needless to say it is NOT my fault. It became very clear that this coworker has some hatred towards me and was trying to do the only thing he could think of to keep his license and his job. I spent the night in abject terror of what I was going to arrive to at work on Thurs and what attempts to sabotage me this coworker might employ in the future.
Was approached by a chief physician asking if we had the equipment needed to safely provide patient care on Thurs at the beginning of my shift. I let him know about the shortages we had, it devolved into an argument where he accused my team of trying to ration or refuse patient care based on not having supplies. I told him we were completely out of safety items needed to do our jobs properly. He asked me if it was comfort or safety keeping us from doing things. I stated that I was clinically able to do anything, but whether it was wise or not was another matter. I then asked him if that patient care related accident from the previous night was safety or comfort. I told him that my team hadn't felt support from our bosses in a long time, but that we had always leaned on him for back up and support but that this was the first time I felt I no longer had support from him.
Made the split decision that I no longer shared any values with this organization and that I was at the risk of being sabotaged in the future. Decided I did not want to work at the end of the month when my accident prone coworker and I would be the only 2 people on the schedule. Walked to my office, called my husband and told him today was the day. He agreed. I called my other (reasonable coworker who is also going to quit), told him it was the day and coordinated dates with him because I would be dumping Christmas coverage on him if I quit. Then I wrote a 2 sentence email to my boss and bosses boss. Walked back to my work area and proceeded to do my job.
At some point the chief physician unknowingly walked into a meeting with the 2 level bosses and my (reasonable quitting) coworker. They were trying to discuss the void that I was creating by leaving and what to do about all of the supply issues I've been singlehandedly attempting to fix. Physician found out then and there "what??? fuzzy_math just quit??" LOL. He knows exactly what led to my decision.
Needless to say he was a bit quiet when he returned to the area where we work. Bosses, this physician and others called a mandatory meeting with contracting company (who still hasn't signed an agreement) to try to figure out what to do about the loss of a person on a 3 member team. I did go speak to my immediate boss and let her know the reasons I was leaving. I said it was no longer a safe place to work and that I couldn't in good conscience stay as long as I'd intended to, but that I always would have quit in January. She let me know that she has told contracting company that they will need to investigate the problem coworker. I cannot imagine that company will sign the agreement at this point. Company will not have the staff and it would be his immediate job to figure out whether to fire the troublesome coworker after my reasonable coworker quits. Reasonable coworker has said he has the goal of getting to Dec 31 but he may quit sooner.
So I jumped the gun a bit, I'm not going to be drawing a paycheck for January, but everyone there knows I have my principles and I will not tolerate abuse or providing unsafe patient care. I consider it a win. Accident prone coworker doesn't know I've quit yet but he will find out one way or another today. I'm hoping to avoid fireworks there.
Well it happened yesterday, I quit! Gave 3 weeks notice so my last day is Dec 22. Now I just have to survive any weird attempts to sabotage or force me out the door.
Contracting company guy never showed up Weds, he texted one of us and let us know that his agreement with the hospital is still not finalized and therefore he was asked not to come until it was final. He did drop the bomb that if certain conditions weren't met by the hospital that he would back out of the contract.
Everything came to a head Weds night when I received a call from a physician friend warning me that my older befuddled coworker had had a patient care related accident and was loudly cursing and screaming my name telling everyone that it was my fault. I had been home for hours and had only tangentially touched the item he was using, others had touched it afterwards and he had 4 hours with this particular item to orient himself to it and prepare to use it on a patient. I'm being vague obviously due to the nature of my job and not wanting to get sued. But needless to say it is NOT my fault. It became very clear that this coworker has some hatred towards me and was trying to do the only thing he could think of to keep his license and his job. I spent the night in abject terror of what I was going to arrive to at work on Thurs and what attempts to sabotage me this coworker might employ in the future.
Was approached by a chief physician asking if we had the equipment needed to safely provide patient care on Thurs at the beginning of my shift. I let him know about the shortages we had, it devolved into an argument where he accused my team of trying to ration or refuse patient care based on not having supplies. I told him we were completely out of safety items needed to do our jobs properly. He asked me if it was comfort or safety keeping us from doing things. I stated that I was clinically able to do anything, but whether it was wise or not was another matter. I then asked him if that patient care related accident from the previous night was safety or comfort. I told him that my team hadn't felt support from our bosses in a long time, but that we had always leaned on him for back up and support but that this was the first time I felt I no longer had support from him.
Made the split decision that I no longer shared any values with this organization and that I was at the risk of being sabotaged in the future. Decided I did not want to work at the end of the month when my accident prone coworker and I would be the only 2 people on the schedule. Walked to my office, called my husband and told him today was the day. He agreed. I called my other (reasonable coworker who is also going to quit), told him it was the day and coordinated dates with him because I would be dumping Christmas coverage on him if I quit. Then I wrote a 2 sentence email to my boss and bosses boss. Walked back to my work area and proceeded to do my job.
At some point the chief physician unknowingly walked into a meeting with the 2 level bosses and my (reasonable quitting) coworker. They were trying to discuss the void that I was creating by leaving and what to do about all of the supply issues I've been singlehandedly attempting to fix. Physician found out then and there "what??? fuzzy_math just quit??" LOL. He knows exactly what led to my decision.
Needless to say he was a bit quiet when he returned to the area where we work. Bosses, this physician and others called a mandatory meeting with contracting company (who still hasn't signed an agreement) to try to figure out what to do about the loss of a person on a 3 member team. I did go speak to my immediate boss and let her know the reasons I was leaving. I said it was no longer a safe place to work and that I couldn't in good conscience stay as long as I'd intended to, but that I always would have quit in January. She let me know that she has told contracting company that they will need to investigate the problem coworker. I cannot imagine that company will sign the agreement at this point. Company will not have the staff and it would be his immediate job to figure out whether to fire the troublesome coworker after my reasonable coworker quits. Reasonable coworker has said he has the goal of getting to Dec 31 but he may quit sooner.
So I jumped the gun a bit, I'm not going to be drawing a paycheck for January, but everyone there knows I have my principles and I will not tolerate abuse or providing unsafe patient care. I consider it a win. Accident prone coworker doesn't know I've quit yet but he will find out one way or another today. I'm hoping to avoid fireworks there.
A happy follow up -
-My immediate manager, and the high level administrator above her have both been fired.
-Neither of my former coworkers go to that hospital any more, they fulfill the contract at a different hospital but are still employed by the old hospital. I think the hospital is afraid of being sued and is just waiting to see what happens. Also the administrator who signed all the contracts is gone, so someone new has to sort through the mess left behind.
-The contracting group hired to fill the void at the main hospital is a hot mess and everyone hates the only locums guy who stays frequently. I hear he's miserable and has threatened to leave multiple times.
and the best part...
I LOVE MY NEW JOB and it turns out I don't hate my profession as a whole, I just couldn't continue on with my profession at the old location. We love our new location (close to where my children were born) and we see family all the time. Life is good!
A happy follow up -
-My immediate manager, and the high level administrator above her have both been fired.
-Neither of my former coworkers go to that hospital any more, they fulfill the contract at a different hospital but are still employed by the old hospital. I think the hospital is afraid of being sued and is just waiting to see what happens. Also the administrator who signed all the contracts is gone, so someone new has to sort through the mess left behind.
-The contracting group hired to fill the void at the main hospital is a hot mess and everyone hates the only locums guy who stays frequently. I hear he's miserable and has threatened to leave multiple times.
and the best part...
I LOVE MY NEW JOB and it turns out I don't hate my profession as a whole, I just couldn't continue on with my profession at the old location. We love our new location (close to where my children were born) and we see family all the time. Life is good!
I shared this in my journal, but it's so, so appropriate for here:
in December of 2021, I had just about had it with work. My boss was trying to push responsibilities on my team that were not appropriate. We were understaffed and underfunded. I had just finished earning my bachelor's in business management and after a particularly heated discussion, I went home and did a simple job search. And realized I had options. That paid half again what I was earning with less responsibilities. I applied for one of them and went through the interview process. I didn't get it, but it was fine.
In January of 22, COVID went through the workplace. The boss got sick, and then sicker. He ended up in the hospital.
Arguments or not, it should be clear that in general I liked the man and considered us friends.
In February, I started covering some of his responsibilities. In March, they threw the budget at me with all of one week to put it together for the next fiscal year. I started scheduling in clients for the next year, updating the contract, filling out supplemental requests, heading up a carper replacement project, etc, etc. All while still doing my Technical Director job. It was over hours every week. (Government, so I accumulated comp time, as opposed to getting paid overtime.) The city extended his FMLA by a month. We were all expecting a recovery and that he'd come back. Unfortunately, he passed in late April.
In all this time, I had seen his boss maybe five or six times.
After he passed, I was made temporary acting GM, still doing my original duties as well. They didn't actually open the position for applicants until June. They interviewed the positions in early July.
I was exhausted. I had hit the comp time cap in June and then they HAD to start paying me overtime. That's how much I was working. I wasn't being paid appropriately for it. I wasn't being trained appropriately for it. I was burnt out, emotionally and physically. And I had HAD it. Finally, at the beginning of August, after weeks of tears, lamenting to the husband, and looking at the numbers that said I could take a year off and not be any worse off than we were at that point, I decided I was done. I told hubs. I called my mother. I emailed the boss and the city recruiting guy in HR on a Monday morning. Two sentences. I'm withdrawing my application. yada yada. Love 10$@aT.
Within minutes, I got a call from the boss. "I'm coming to pick you up so we can talk." He took me to breakfast and we talked about why. (I've been doing double duty for six months with nearly not support.) He asked me to reconsider. "This kind of thing never happens!" (It has! To me! Twice now! There's an FU story in here somewhere about the last time!) "It could be better." "There could be more support." "You can take time off." "The rec center and ice arena managers could step in while you recharge." (I'm not sure that actually would have worked.)
I reminded him that I had emailed HR guy.
"I can kill HR guy."
I told him I'd think about it.
A few days later we met in his office and I told him that if he could guarantee that change could and would happen, I would consider accepting the job. But if I wasn't offered it, I was quitting the job completely. That took him off-guard. I hadn't planned on telling him. When I withdrew, I had figured on helping the new GM get situated and then I would turn in my notice. But it came up, so I told him it was all or nothing.
I got offered the job. With a $17,000 raise and lots of vacation.
I stayed.
(He's kept enough of his promises that I'm not mad about it.)
didn't read all of the posts but the ones that I read were very inspiring! FU money literally gives you the balls to say "eh, I don't want to be doing this anymore, so I'm not going to. Bye folks".
I have a small FU story too:
I went off to have a baby during the pandemic. When I came back I knew I didn't want to return to the office and I wanted to keep baby with me at home (didn't want to send to daycare, for mostly emotional reasons). When the boss called me I said that I wasn't returning and he was like "what could convince you to stay?"
On a whim I said "fully remote, part time hours, I dictate the schedule, full benefits, also raise please"
He surprisingly said yes and gave me everything that I wanted! It was awesome for a while....I had my in laws and parents watch kid for a few hours a day while I worked completely remotely. Everyone was going back to the office at least 3 days a week. Since I had full benefits I got raises and bonuses and all the health benefits etc.
On the negative side people just don't understand that my hours were note 9-5 and sometimes people push you to output like a fulltimer.
Fast forward to today I am pregnant with the 2nd kid and was feeling super stressed. My hubby says to me one day "why don't you just take your maternity leave early and be done with this place?"
So yep, I'm already on maternity leave with months left to go before I give birth.
FU money is great!
didn't read all of the posts but the ones that I read were very inspiring! FU money literally gives you the balls to say "eh, I don't want to be doing this anymore, so I'm not going to. Bye folks".
I have a small FU story too:
...
FU money is great!
I love this. Take a stand for decent parental leave and work-life balance!didn't read all of the posts but the ones that I read were very inspiring! FU money literally gives you the balls to say "eh, I don't want to be doing this anymore, so I'm not going to. Bye folks".
I have a small FU story too:
...
FU money is great!
I'm so proud of you. Swinging that FU Money hammer is super fun, right?
The first time we exercised the FU-Money option in the workplace was when my wife delivered our 2nd. Her employer refused to allow her to work a reduced 40 hour week during tax season. They had previously allowed her this when we had our 1st child a few years prior. They implied after they allowed this change, there were other new moms using the same policy. Then some dads rightfully said this was not fair, and they too got reduced hours. Typical hours in tax season are 60-70 per week at this firm, not Big 4, but regionally huge.
My MIL was going to visit us for a couple of months and help after my mum moved in with us for the first month post-birth. So we'd have 3 months of help. I told my wife that if they don't want to accommodate her request, that she should quit, and spend time with her mum. She was worried about income; told her we have rental income that covers our mortgage, utilities, home insurance, etc. And we have an emergency fund, and more.
After her maternity leave during the tax season, she went to the office, put in a vacation request to use up her hours, which was instantly approved as it was the slow season. When that was over, she went in and put in her 2 week notice. All of a sudden, the partners and directors freaked out. They asked what they could do to make here stay. She said it was too late for action but didn't offer any specifics. They let her go and provided a 2 week severance pay. Meanwhile, during her leave, she'd negotiated with a previous employer to work for them, with 2 days WFH, work 32 hours, get paid for 40. Shorter commute.
Icing on the cake: some of her coworkers, who we're friends with outside the workplace, were also planning to have a 2nd child. With my wife's actions encouraging them, they too left that CPA firm and took industry positions that were more amenable to raising a family and/or better work-life balance.
Once we'd swung that FU hammer, it became our version of Thor's Mjölnir. We've used it judiciously when the moment required it.
didn't read all of the posts but the ones that I read were very inspiring! FU money literally gives you the balls to say "eh, I don't want to be doing this anymore, so I'm not going to. Bye folks".
I have a small FU story too:
...
FU money is great!
I'm so proud of you. Swinging that FU Money hammer is super fun, right?
The first time we exercised the FU-Money option in the workplace was when my wife delivered our 2nd. Her employer refused to allow her to work a reduced 40 hour week during tax season. They had previously allowed her this when we had our 1st child a few years prior. They implied after they allowed this change, there were other new moms using the same policy. Then some dads rightfully said this was not fair, and they too got reduced hours. Typical hours in tax season are 60-70 per week at this firm, not Big 4, but regionally huge.
My MIL was going to visit us for a couple of months and help after my mum moved in with us for the first month post-birth. So we'd have 3 months of help. I told my wife that if they don't want to accommodate her request, that she should quit, and spend time with her mum. She was worried about income; told her we have rental income that covers our mortgage, utilities, home insurance, etc. And we have an emergency fund, and more.
After her maternity leave during the tax season, she went to the office, put in a vacation request to use up her hours, which was instantly approved as it was the slow season. When that was over, she went in and put in her 2 week notice. All of a sudden, the partners and directors freaked out. They asked what they could do to make here stay. She said it was too late for action but didn't offer any specifics. They let her go and provided a 2 week severance pay. Meanwhile, during her leave, she'd negotiated with a previous employer to work for them, with 2 days WFH, work 32 hours, get paid for 40. Shorter commute.
Icing on the cake: some of her coworkers, who we're friends with outside the workplace, were also planning to have a 2nd child. With my wife's actions encouraging them, they too left that CPA firm and took industry positions that were more amenable to raising a family and/or better work-life balance.
Once we'd swung that FU hammer, it became our version of Thor's Mjölnir. We've used it judiciously when the moment required it.
I think about a coworker who's mother was going into hospice and she couldn't afford to take too much time off so she was incredibly stressed and was crying at her desk. She was working all day and then visiting her mother for long hours at night and dealing with all the medical stuff. Same thing when the mom eventually passed she had to work while dealing with the grief and end of life arrangements.
This can literally happen to anyone who doesn't have a big enough stache. Everyone has at least someone that will rely on them at some point - like a parent, sibling, pet, child etc.
I think about a coworker who's mother was going into hospice and she couldn't afford to take too much time off so she was incredibly stressed and was crying at her desk. She was working all day and then visiting her mother for long hours at night and dealing with all the medical stuff. Same thing when the mom eventually passed she had to work while dealing with the grief and end of life arrangements.
This can literally happen to anyone who doesn't have a big enough stache. Everyone has at least someone that will rely on them at some point - like a parent, sibling, pet, child etc.
Hmm. I turned down a (most probable) job offer/promotion this morning, because my FIL just entered hospice care, and my 86 year old mom is declining. I do NOT want to be that person. Your account is like the third "UNIVERSE IS SHOUTING AT YOU TO SAY NO" post I've seen.
Good call. Thanks for the reinforcement.
Way to go @Freedomin5! Nothing makes gutless upper managers squirm more than actually having to make decisions like this. Hopefully -- faced with a clear choice between two toxic employees and a good manager willing to call them on their shit - they'll make the right call.
Way to go @Freedomin5! Nothing makes gutless upper managers squirm more than actually having to make decisions like this. Hopefully -- faced with a clear choice between two toxic employees and a good manager willing to call them on their shit - they'll make the right call.
My money is on them making the wrong decision.
I told my boss (who 99% of the time is reasonable) that I will quit in six months. I'm the only person doing my job, so a transition to some newly-hired person would be ideal. A brief email exchange:Sounds like they are going to be figuring out how to get your replacement up to speed on their own
Me: I might be amenable to a short part-time transition if it turns out that the timing of the hiring of my eventual replacement were near my end date. During a short transition I wouldn’t plan on getting involved in Task X, although I could be involved in doing just about anything else.
Boss: If the company is going to continue paying you, then you aren’t going to decide when you want to work and what projects you will work on.
Me: In the event of a short-term transition, there will be conditions on what projects I work on. Only one condition really, I just stated it (Task X). If you don’t like it, obviously there won’t be a short-term transition. Both parties have to agree.
Boss: There has to be interest on your end and there has to be an offer on my end. So lets just ignore this part time hypothetical until we get there.
That's awesome. I am sure once it gets closer (when they struggle to find someone...) there will be a much nicer conversation started by boss.
Can't wait to hear how it plays out.
"Very likely that your manager can't start recruiting until he has "official" notification with a firm date that you're quitting." Not Must_ache's problem.Congrats on FIREing! Good luck with your decompression and everything that comes next
As always get agreements in writing and in your personal possession.
I gave notice on the 3rd (last week) offering per company handbook to continue for 2 months. Company counter offered with my last day "doing stuff" to be the 6th (last friday) and to use vacation for the forward months. I too had very specialized knowledge. Was no discussion of hiring and training a replacement, or even an exit interview (so far...), was with the company +20 years. My first real day of FIRE is today (monday was a holiday) is going about perfectly. It was time to leave the company, stupid shit was piling up and becoming unbearable, especially with 25x in the bank.
"Boss: There has to be interest on your end and there has to be an offer on my end. So lets just ignore this part time hypothetical until we get there."
Sounds like the boss does not want you on during a transition period post final date. Also sounds like there will not be appropriate levels of respect shown to you. "My last day will be April 5th, I will be unavailable there after". Boss does not have your best interests at heart - act accordingly. But maybe I am just past jaded and in need of decompression time <shrug>.
Congrats on FIREing! Good luck with your decompression and everything that comes next
Sounds like the boss does not want you on during a transition period post final date. Also sounds like there will not be appropriate levels of respect shown to you. "My last day will be April 5th, I will be unavailable there after". Boss does not have your best interests at heart - act accordingly. But maybe I am just past jaded and in need of decompression time <shrug>
Boss: If the company is going to continue paying you, then you aren’t going to decide when you want to work and what projects you will work on.
Me: In the event of a short-term transition, there will be conditions on what projects I work on. Only one condition really, I just stated it (Task X). If you don’t like it, obviously there won’t be a short-term transition. Both parties have to agree.
Boss: There has to be interest on your end and there has to be an offer on my end. So lets just ignore this part time hypothetical until we get there.
Boss: If the company is going to continue paying you, then you aren’t going to decide when you want to work and what projects you will work on.
Me: In the event of a short-term transition, there will be conditions on what projects I work on. Only one condition really, I just stated it (Task X). If you don’t like it, obviously there won’t be a short-term transition. Both parties have to agree.
Boss: There has to be interest on your end and there has to be an offer on my end. So lets just ignore this part time hypothetical until we get there.
Bluff called beautifully. Rather than the boss admitting they don't have the upper hand, they just tabled the discussion. LOOOOOL
QuoteCongrats on FIREing! Good luck with your decompression and everything that comes next
Thanks I'm looking to work half time at some point, but with nearly $1.4M I won't have to rush anything. For the last several years I have been stashing almost half my pay away, so the plan is to work half as much as stash no pay away and give those assets a chance to grow some more. I currently do some tutoring and I enjoy a small amount of Uber delivering. I can teach math at the college level. But until this job ends it's impractical to look for or apply to anything half-time and remote.QuoteSounds like the boss does not want you on during a transition period post final date. Also sounds like there will not be appropriate levels of respect shown to you. "My last day will be April 5th, I will be unavailable there after". Boss does not have your best interests at heart - act accordingly. But maybe I am just past jaded and in need of decompression time <shrug>
Boss has already made it clear they don't want two people on long-term. The uncertainty is hiring someone and making sure I leave. If they could hire someone by January, that would allow a 3-month transition in which case I probably wouldn't be needed longer, which is fine. If they don't bring someone on until March, then they will probably want me stick around. Boss is not trying to screw me, just trying to get his way. I'm willing to cooperate subject to my own conditions.
"Very likely that your manager can't start recruiting until he has "official" notification with a firm date that you're quitting." Not Must_ache's problem.
As always get agreements in writing and in your personal possession.
I gave notice on the 3rd (last week) offering per company handbook to continue for 2 months. Company counter offered with my last day "doing stuff" to be the 6th (last friday) and to use vacation for the forward months. I too had very specialized knowledge. Was no discussion of hiring and training a replacement, or even an exit interview (so far...), was with the company +20 years. My first real day of FIRE is today (monday was a holiday) is going about perfectly. It was time to leave the company, stupid shit was piling up and becoming unbearable, especially with 25x in the bank.
"Boss: There has to be interest on your end and there has to be an offer on my end. So lets just ignore this part time hypothetical until we get there."
Sounds like the boss does not want you on during a transition period post final date. Also sounds like there will not be appropriate levels of respect shown to you. "My last day will be April 5th, I will be unavailable there after". Boss does not have your best interests at heart - act accordingly. But maybe I am just past jaded and in need of decompression time <shrug>.
I told my boss (who 99% of the time is reasonable) that I will quit in six months. I'm the only person doing my job, so a transition to some newly-hired person would be ideal. A brief email exchange:
Me: I might be amenable to a short part-time transition if it turns out that the timing of the hiring of my eventual replacement were near my end date. During a short transition I wouldn’t plan on getting involved in Task X, although I could be involved in doing just about anything else.
Boss: If the company is going to continue paying you, then you aren’t going to decide when you want to work and what projects you will work on.
Me: In the event of a short-term transition, there will be conditions on what projects I work on. Only one condition really, I just stated it (Task X). If you don’t like it, obviously there won’t be a short-term transition. Both parties have to agree.
Boss: There has to be interest on your end and there has to be an offer on my end. So lets just ignore this part time hypothetical until we get there.
What's the point of giving 6 months notice?
What's the point of giving 6 months notice?
Yea I don't get this one either. Do they give a 6-month notice when letting people go?
I don't treat my employer better than they treat their employees.
There are some fields where extended notices are common. There are some people who are ignorant. There are some people who are unwilling to say no. There are contracts that have specific requirements. All sorts of reasons, many of which are not good reasons. I don't know what OP's situation is, but this might be relevant: https://www.askamanager.org/2023/10/my-boss-told-me-not-to-quit-until-they-replace-me-but-that-could-take-months.html
There are some fields where extended notices are common. There are some people who are ignorant. There are some people who are unwilling to say no. There are contracts that have specific requirements. All sorts of reasons, many of which are not good reasons. I don't know what OP's situation is, but this might be relevant: https://www.askamanager.org/2023/10/my-boss-told-me-not-to-quit-until-they-replace-me-but-that-could-take-months.html
"my boss told me not to quit" lol, jesus christ
What's the point of giving 6 months notice? Is there a requirement in your rules or agreement with the company for 6 months? Seems like giving up a lot of leverage.
If you were to tell them in mid-March that you planned to quit in April, then you would put the boss in a much more desperate condition where they'd be much more inclined to accept your demands. Instead, your boss may very well already have started looking for your replacement, whether you know it or not. And if they find someone willing to work cheaper than you, they might show you the door much sooner than April.
Some people just can't stand the idea of another person's happiness and boundaries.
I think that's just part of the general aversion of change. The more important the change, the harder is the resistance.Some people just can't stand the idea of another person's happiness and boundaries.
The educator John Holt said that his hardest life lesson was accepting that people will refuse to improve their lives. If you say, "Look, I lost my chains, here's how you can lose yours!" their response is, "Huh, so you think you're better than the rest of us? You're too good for chains, is that it?"
I think that's just part of the general aversion of change. The more important the change, the harder is the resistance.Some people just can't stand the idea of another person's happiness and boundaries.
The educator John Holt said that his hardest life lesson was accepting that people will refuse to improve their lives. If you say, "Look, I lost my chains, here's how you can lose yours!" their response is, "Huh, so you think you're better than the rest of us? You're too good for chains, is that it?"
I have a coworker to decided to ease into retirement by going part time, but he wanted to keep the benefits, so that meant at least 30 h/ week. Though he would have preferred 25.I think that's just part of the general aversion of change. The more important the change, the harder is the resistance.Some people just can't stand the idea of another person's happiness and boundaries.
The educator John Holt said that his hardest life lesson was accepting that people will refuse to improve their lives. If you say, "Look, I lost my chains, here's how you can lose yours!" their response is, "Huh, so you think you're better than the rest of us? You're too good for chains, is that it?"
Change is hard. It’s much easier to whine and complain, and blame others for the problems rather than trying to better the situation or find a solution. And of course, bash others and do your best to get in the way of others who actually actively look to better their situations.
Here's my read between the lines on this.
Could be a short sighted 'building must be full at all times to justify the cost' thing, but my guess is it is more of a:
How is this person getting more done in 3/4th time thanmost of our FTEsI am? It's makingthe other FTEsme look bad!
The bean counter side should be thrilled at getting FTE type effectiveness from 3/4th pay, so that's what has me leaning towards another reason for the stupidity.
Here's my read between the lines on this.
Could be a short sighted 'building must be full at all times to justify the cost' thing, but my guess is it is more of a:
How is this person getting more done in 3/4th time thanmost of our FTEsI am? It's makingthe other FTEsme look bad!
The bean counter side should be thrilled at getting FTE type effectiveness from 3/4th pay, so that's what has me leaning towards another reason for the stupidity.
FTFY
@Simpli-Fi sure, you should give (not submit) them the exit survey. Your post above is clear and well written, so you could append a redacted version of your post to the exit interview form to flesh out your reasoning for your still-epic low key FU.
@Simpli-Fi sure, you should give (not submit) them the exit survey. Your post above is clear and well written, so you could append a redacted version of your post to the exit interview form to flesh out your reasoning for your still-epic low key FU.
I ended up submitting the survey. I fed the questions and my original answers into chatGPT then asked it to make me sound more sincere, with a little editing/deleting I think the tone and delivery will have a better shot at being received.
I can breathe a little easier and think more clearly today!
chatGPTissounds more sincere than a human? Now that's some AI I can use.
Not sure "sincere" was the word you were looking for.chatGPTissounds more sincere than a human? Now that's some AI I can use.
Can confirm! One of my first uses of ChatGPT was to ask it to compose a condolences text because some people I really disliked had died. (These were family-of-family that I had known tangentially, they were actively cruel to me as a child and then turned MAGA. I am not sorry they're gone, but people I care about were mourning, so I felt like I had to say something.) It needed some tweaking but was overall pretty good.
Not sure "sincere" was the word you were looking for.chatGPTissounds more sincere than a human? Now that's some AI I can use.
Can confirm! One of my first uses of ChatGPT was to ask it to compose a condolences text because some people I really disliked had died. (These were family-of-family that I had known tangentially, they were actively cruel to me as a child and then turned MAGA. I am not sorry they're gone, but people I care about were mourning, so I felt like I had to say something.) It needed some tweaking but was overall pretty good.
It sounds like a sincere comment would have been, "Good riddance to bad rubbish."
Perhaps the word you were looking for was "comforting", not "sincere", as in:
chatGPT sounds more comforting than human me could manage.
This past weekend I learned of a potentially Epic FU story brewing within my extended family.
Backstory: Eldest nephew got his Associates Degree in May 2020 and decided not to transfer to a 4 year school right away because he didn't want to be taking online courses while paying on campus level tuition. That summer he was promoted to entry level management at the big box store where he worked. Still lived at home, low expenses, saved a bunch of money so he'd be able to pay cash whenever he went back for his degree.
He starts looking around his company and realizes that there are opportunities to move up the ladder if he's willing to move geographically. So he applies for and receives a promotion to go to a store near where his other grandparents live, stays with them for a while, and then gets another promotion in that geographic area.
At that point, he decides he's fine with moving around if that gets him up the ladder, and he takes another promotion that puts him in a big city almost a day's drive away. All is going great, he can put in for another promotion after he's been there a year, and he's eligible to start training for the next level about 9 months after the transfer.
Except there's a manager in his chain who was replaced about 4-5 months ago, and the new guy has a reputation for never letting anyone transfer out. He knows my nephew makes his store look good and he wants to keep his claws in. This guy is blocking my nephew from starting training for the next level. Other stores are actively recruiting my nephew to transfer to them for promotions, but without an overrule from corporate, he won't be allowed to do that.
Nephew is a young guy with no kids, no mortgage, no local family where he currently is. In fact, he's even young enough to go back on his parent's health insurance still. This company doesn't even have any golden handcuffs besides annual bonuses. All that the idiot upper management guy should already have access to know. What he may not know on top of that is that nephew has a much bigger emergency fund than people twice his age and this may be the push he needs to go back to being a college student and finish his Bachelors degree.
Update to this one. Eldest nephew has given notice and is starting back to college this month. No word yet on the reaction he got when he turned in said notice.
I think that's just part of the general aversion of change. The more important the change, the harder is the resistance.Some people just can't stand the idea of another person's happiness and boundaries.
The educator John Holt said that his hardest life lesson was accepting that people will refuse to improve their lives. If you say, "Look, I lost my chains, here's how you can lose yours!" their response is, "Huh, so you think you're better than the rest of us? You're too good for chains, is that it?"
Change is hard. It’s much easier to whine and complain, and blame others for the problems rather than trying to better the situation or find a solution.
This past weekend I learned of a potentially Epic FU story brewing within my extended family.
Backstory: Eldest nephew got his Associates Degree in May 2020 and decided not to transfer to a 4 year school right away because he didn't want to be taking online courses while paying on campus level tuition. That summer he was promoted to entry level management at the big box store where he worked. Still lived at home, low expenses, saved a bunch of money so he'd be able to pay cash whenever he went back for his degree.
He starts looking around his company and realizes that there are opportunities to move up the ladder if he's willing to move geographically. So he applies for and receives a promotion to go to a store near where his other grandparents live, stays with them for a while, and then gets another promotion in that geographic area.
At that point, he decides he's fine with moving around if that gets him up the ladder, and he takes another promotion that puts him in a big city almost a day's drive away. All is going great, he can put in for another promotion after he's been there a year, and he's eligible to start training for the next level about 9 months after the transfer.
Except there's a manager in his chain who was replaced about 4-5 months ago, and the new guy has a reputation for never letting anyone transfer out. He knows my nephew makes his store look good and he wants to keep his claws in. This guy is blocking my nephew from starting training for the next level. Other stores are actively recruiting my nephew to transfer to them for promotions, but without an overrule from corporate, he won't be allowed to do that.
Nephew is a young guy with no kids, no mortgage, no local family where he currently is. In fact, he's even young enough to go back on his parent's health insurance still. This company doesn't even have any golden handcuffs besides annual bonuses. All that the idiot upper management guy should already have access to know. What he may not know on top of that is that nephew has a much bigger emergency fund than people twice his age and this may be the push he needs to go back to being a college student and finish his Bachelors degree.
Update to this one. Eldest nephew has given notice and is starting back to college this month. No word yet on the reaction he got when he turned in said notice.
Thanks to getting together at Christmas, I have an even better additional update to this one. Turns out that instead of completely giving notice, my nephew stepped down to being part-time, lower level employee at the store near where he's going to school.
The key benefit this gives him is that profit sharing is based on total number of years there, and total earnings for the year. So he's going to get a profit sharing bonus check next month that's going to be based on full time salary for 2/3rds of the year plus whatever he's earned part time since then. I'm sure his situation wasn't one that the corporate benefits person had in mind when coming up with the employee retention/profit sharing plan.
Our dad has a military pension, our mother had a government one, and when we were the kids' ages most large corporations still had pensions as well, so that was the unspoken expectation around retirement at that time.
At one point the grandkids' topic of conversation turned to 401k/IRA, stock market, etc which kind of blew my brother's mind. He mentioned that we'd never talked about that growing up, which is true.
This past weekend I learned of a potentially Epic FU story brewing within my extended family.
Backstory: Eldest nephew got his Associates Degree in May 2020 and decided not to transfer to a 4 year school right away because he didn't want to be taking online courses while paying on campus level tuition. That summer he was promoted to entry level management at the big box store where he worked. Still lived at home, low expenses, saved a bunch of money so he'd be able to pay cash whenever he went back for his degree.
He starts looking around his company and realizes that there are opportunities to move up the ladder if he's willing to move geographically. So he applies for and receives a promotion to go to a store near where his other grandparents live, stays with them for a while, and then gets another promotion in that geographic area.
At that point, he decides he's fine with moving around if that gets him up the ladder, and he takes another promotion that puts him in a big city almost a day's drive away. All is going great, he can put in for another promotion after he's been there a year, and he's eligible to start training for the next level about 9 months after the transfer.
Except there's a manager in his chain who was replaced about 4-5 months ago, and the new guy has a reputation for never letting anyone transfer out. He knows my nephew makes his store look good and he wants to keep his claws in. This guy is blocking my nephew from starting training for the next level. Other stores are actively recruiting my nephew to transfer to them for promotions, but without an overrule from corporate, he won't be allowed to do that.
Nephew is a young guy with no kids, no mortgage, no local family where he currently is. In fact, he's even young enough to go back on his parent's health insurance still. This company doesn't even have any golden handcuffs besides annual bonuses. All that the idiot upper management guy should already have access to know. What he may not know on top of that is that nephew has a much bigger emergency fund than people twice his age and this may be the push he needs to go back to being a college student and finish his Bachelors degree.
Update to this one. Eldest nephew has given notice and is starting back to college this month. No word yet on the reaction he got when he turned in said notice.
Thanks to getting together at Christmas, I have an even better additional update to this one. Turns out that instead of completely giving notice, my nephew stepped down to being part-time, lower level employee at the store near where he's going to school.
The key benefit this gives him is that profit sharing is based on total number of years there, and total earnings for the year. So he's going to get a profit sharing bonus check next month that's going to be based on full time salary for 2/3rds of the year plus whatever he's earned part time since then. I'm sure his situation wasn't one that the corporate benefits person had in mind when coming up with the employee retention/profit sharing plan.
This past weekend I learned of a potentially Epic FU story brewing within my extended family.
Backstory: Eldest nephew got his Associates Degree in May 2020 and decided not to transfer to a 4 year school right away because he didn't want to be taking online courses while paying on campus level tuition. That summer he was promoted to entry level management at the big box store where he worked. Still lived at home, low expenses, saved a bunch of money so he'd be able to pay cash whenever he went back for his degree.
He starts looking around his company and realizes that there are opportunities to move up the ladder if he's willing to move geographically. So he applies for and receives a promotion to go to a store near where his other grandparents live, stays with them for a while, and then gets another promotion in that geographic area.
At that point, he decides he's fine with moving around if that gets him up the ladder, and he takes another promotion that puts him in a big city almost a day's drive away. All is going great, he can put in for another promotion after he's been there a year, and he's eligible to start training for the next level about 9 months after the transfer.
Except there's a manager in his chain who was replaced about 4-5 months ago, and the new guy has a reputation for never letting anyone transfer out. He knows my nephew makes his store look good and he wants to keep his claws in. This guy is blocking my nephew from starting training for the next level. Other stores are actively recruiting my nephew to transfer to them for promotions, but without an overrule from corporate, he won't be allowed to do that.
Nephew is a young guy with no kids, no mortgage, no local family where he currently is. In fact, he's even young enough to go back on his parent's health insurance still. This company doesn't even have any golden handcuffs besides annual bonuses. All that the idiot upper management guy should already have access to know. What he may not know on top of that is that nephew has a much bigger emergency fund than people twice his age and this may be the push he needs to go back to being a college student and finish his Bachelors degree.
Update to this one. Eldest nephew has given notice and is starting back to college this month. No word yet on the reaction he got when he turned in said notice.
Thanks to getting together at Christmas, I have an even better additional update to this one. Turns out that instead of completely giving notice, my nephew stepped down to being part-time, lower level employee at the store near where he's going to school.
The key benefit this gives him is that profit sharing is based on total number of years there, and total earnings for the year. So he's going to get a profit sharing bonus check next month that's going to be based on full time salary for 2/3rds of the year plus whatever he's earned part time since then. I'm sure his situation wasn't one that the corporate benefits person had in mind when coming up with the employee retention/profit sharing plan.
Nice work, nephew!
It turns out nearly every HR manual has what can best be referred to as "Loopholes" that can benefit the employee if you read carefully. Which you should, because they absolutely will interpret in their favor instead whenever they can.
One of the first "real" jobs I had they hired me in November and wanted me to start beginning of January. But then I read the HR benefits handbook that they sent along with the offer letter and realized if I started any time in Dec I would have an entire extra year of "time served" towards benefits, seniority, etc. AND I'd receive the bonus for that entire year in Feb, which made no sense, but I don't make the rules. Told the hiring manager I wanted to start Dec 19th instead, and he was hesitant because "no one would be around" and there was a total corporate shut down where no one worked between Christmas Eve and Jan 2nd. But I told him it would really be good to get the administrative stuff like HR orientation out of the way and I was excited to start, and so he reluctantly agreed it was fine. And so I started Dec 19th, worked a couple of days reading the HR manual, had the holidays off like everyone else, began my "second" year of service in Jan, and got the departmental bonus in Feb. And I was also fully vested for the retirement pension when I left ~four years later because according to their methods it was after 5 years of service, which was the time required for vesting.
Thought this might not be epic to most MMMers, but maybe to non-Mustachians.
Wife and I know we've got FU money. She had to travel overseas for a family member's medical emergency on the weekend.
Paying stupid prices for a flight to Southeast Asia in less than 24 hours? No issue.
Booked hotel rooms for her sis and bro too? No problem. (They're well off. We have the classic Asian problem of everyone wants to pay for others. But being able to book for her bro who's taking care of the parents on travel, and her sis who has work and kid issues to deal with - that's when money becomes a tool to lighten their burden, etc.)
Wife told her boss and offered to quit. He said "Nope, go and take care of family. Go buy a portable monitor and expense it. Expense anything else you may need for work or related to it." She may do a bit of admin work but nothing else. He didn't even talk about hours or pay. Good chap!
Her initial 5 weeks might become longer, and she'll offer again to quit. We'd discussed her quitting in a couple of years, but her taking the option now doesn't change things one bit.
Being frugal helps build a financial Mjolnir to strike at the right time.
Being frugal helps build a financial Mjolnir to strike at the right time.
Thought this might not be epic to most MMMers, but maybe to non-Mustachians.
Wife and I know we've got FU money. She had to travel overseas for a family member's medical emergency on the weekend.
Paying stupid prices for a flight to Southeast Asia in less than 24 hours? No issue.
Booked hotel rooms for her sis and bro too? No problem. (They're well off. We have the classic Asian problem of everyone wants to pay for others. But being able to book for her bro who's taking care of the parents on travel, and her sis who has work and kid issues to deal with - that's when money becomes a tool to lighten their burden, etc.)
Wife told her boss and offered to quit. He said "Nope, go and take care of family. Go buy a portable monitor and expense it. Expense anything else you may need for work or related to it." She may do a bit of admin work but nothing else. He didn't even talk about hours or pay. Good chap!
Her initial 5 weeks might become longer, and she'll offer again to quit. We'd discussed her quitting in a couple of years, but her taking the option now doesn't change things one bit.
Being frugal helps build a financial Mjolnir to strike at the right time.
On a lighter version of this, my husband grew up with travel being an extravagance and most trips being intense boy scout camping. I'm slowly easing his packing anxiety by reminding him that Berlin is not in fact the middle of nowhere and they will have toothpaste there if we need some. It's been fun.Yes, we have that stuff. In nearly every supermarket, dm or Rossmann ;)
On a lighter version of this, my husband grew up with travel being an extravagance and most trips being intense boy scout camping. I'm slowly easing his packing anxiety by reminding him that Berlin is not in fact the middle of nowhere and they will have toothpaste there if we need some. It's been fun.Yes, we have that stuff. In nearly every supermarket, dm or Rossmann ;)
I came across a quote somewhere that when you are financially stable most emergencies just become annoyances. It's been so true. Being able to focus on either the logistical and emotional problems and hand wave away the financial has been great.
On a lighter version of this, my husband grew up with travel being an extravagance and most trips being intense boy scout camping. I'm slowly easing his packing anxiety by reminding him that Berlin is not in fact the middle of nowhere and they will have toothpaste there if we need some. It's been fun.Yes, we have that stuff. In nearly every supermarket, dm or Rossmann ;)
...unless you arrive on a Sunday, when most of those are closed! Which may feel weird to a visiting American.
I came across a quote somewhere that when you are financially stable most emergencies just become annoyances. It's been so true. Being able to focus on either the logistical and emotional problems and hand wave away the financial has been great.
My BIL used to have a business mentor who would say, "That's a not a problem, it's an expense" if it was a problem that could be solved with (available) money.
I came across a quote somewhere that when you are financially stable most emergencies just become annoyances. It's been so true. Being able to focus on either the logistical and emotional problems and hand wave away the financial has been great.
My BIL used to have a business mentor who would say, "That's a not a problem, it's an expense" if it was a problem that could be solved with (available) money.
I like both of these thoughts and might even modify the first quote to "...most emergencies just become a non-issue." We've had a number of things come up that I've just shrugged and said, "Ok." when perhaps in my 20's or 30's it would have been anxiety provoking.
I came across a quote somewhere that when you are financially stable most emergencies just become annoyances. It's been so true. Being able to focus on either the logistical and emotional problems and hand wave away the financial has been great.
My BIL used to have a business mentor who would say, "That's a not a problem, it's an expense" if it was a problem that could be solved with (available) money.
I like both of these thoughts and might even modify the first quote to "...most emergencies just become a non-issue." We've had a number of things come up that I've just shrugged and said, "Ok." when perhaps in my 20's or 30's it would have been anxiety provoking.
I call this "solving a problem by throwing money at it." Terrible if you do it all the time, but amazingly freeing to know you can when you really need to.
I came across a quote somewhere that when you are financially stable most emergencies just become annoyances. It's been so true. Being able to focus on either the logistical and emotional problems and hand wave away the financial has been great.
My BIL used to have a business mentor who would say, "That's a not a problem, it's an expense" if it was a problem that could be solved with (available) money.
I like both of these thoughts and might even modify the first quote to "...most emergencies just become a non-issue." We've had a number of things come up that I've just shrugged and said, "Ok." when perhaps in my 20's or 30's it would have been anxiety provoking.
I call this "solving a problem by throwing money at it." Terrible if you do it all the time, but amazingly freeing to know you can when you really need to.
Ha, I less tactfully say "it's not a PROBLEM if you can solve it by throwing money at it (and you have the money available)" At that point, it's mostly an inconvenience.
It is not against the law to park here, you just have to pay 250$ to the city if they send you a bill.
It is not against the law to park here, you just have to pay 250$ to the city if they send you a bill.
What's the saying? "To rich people, fines are license fees"?
It is not against the law to park here, you just have to pay 250$ to the city if they send you a bill.What's the saying? "To rich people, fines are license fees"?
Does that still work if you only got rich by being frugal? I've been FIRE'd two and a half years, and I still struggle with "wasting" money on things like parking at the airport. Not sure how much money I would need to just park illegally and plan to pay the fine.
I like both of these thoughts and might even modify the first quote to "...most emergencies just become a non-issue." We've had a number of things come up that I've just shrugged and said, "Ok." when perhaps in my 20's or 30's it would have been anxiety provoking.
It is not against the law to park here, you just have to pay 250$ to the city if they send you a bill.What's the saying? "To rich people, fines are license fees"?
Does that still work if you only got rich by being frugal? I've been FIRE'd two and a half years, and I still struggle with "wasting" money on things like parking at the airport. Not sure how much money I would need to just park illegally and plan to pay the fine.
I mostly hear the quotation from people pointing out that money-based fines are in effect discrimination against the poor.
It is not against the law to park here, you just have to pay 250$ to the city if they send you a bill.What's the saying? "To rich people, fines are license fees"?
Does that still work if you only got rich by being frugal? I've been FIRE'd two and a half years, and I still struggle with "wasting" money on things like parking at the airport. Not sure how much money I would need to just park illegally and plan to pay the fine.
I mostly hear the quotation from people pointing out that money-based fines are in effect discrimination against the poor.
In some countries, certain fines are based on the person’s income. So you sometimes hear about speeding fines of 50k or so. The point is that it *should* hurt, and that it should teach them to stop speeding.
It is not against the law to park here, you just have to pay 250$ to the city if they send you a bill.What's the saying? "To rich people, fines are license fees"?
Does that still work if you only got rich by being frugal? I've been FIRE'd two and a half years, and I still struggle with "wasting" money on things like parking at the airport. Not sure how much money I would need to just park illegally and plan to pay the fine.
I mostly hear the quotation from people pointing out that money-based fines are in effect discrimination against the poor.
In some countries, certain fines are based on the person’s income. So you sometimes hear about speeding fines of 50k or so. The point is that it *should* hurt, and that it should teach them to stop speeding.
I’d be happy to see all fines based that way… It would help level the playing field. I mentioned this comment to my brother today and he told me of someone he knew would would return rental cars by just parking them in the departure drop off lane…
It was tried in the UK a couple of decades or so ago but as soon as the chattering classes started getting high four-figure fines for speeding offences it was quickly dropped.
I am all for income-based fines everywhere, including parking violations (mentioned for a reason).Sweden and, I think, the other Nordic countries use this. Of course, as a FIRE, you may be wealthy but not have a high income, so it wouldn't necessarily affect you anyway.
Hm... oh, I see English has a good name for that, even if you don't use the concept: day-fine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine
And that, my friends, is a very unpopular opinion in my neck of woods.
And that, my friends, is a very unpopular opinion in my neck of woods.
Heh, I was having a discussion with my sister about taxes and she went 'what, you want to pay MORE taxes?' expecting me to say 'no not myself', and I said 'yes, yes I do. i should at my income level'. End of conversation I seemed to have grown a second head or something.
Regarding the income-based fines, for the countries doing it, how do they figure out how much someone makes? Previous year's tax would be easiest, but how do they handle a situation where someone made a lot last year, but now they're laid off and/or making a lot less? I would love to see this method of fines implemented in America, but I can see it being a constant litigation of people saying the amount is wrong.
And that, my friends, is a very unpopular opinion in my neck of woods.
Heh, I was having a discussion with my sister about taxes and she went 'what, you want to pay MORE taxes?' expecting me to say 'no not myself', and I said 'yes, yes I do. i should at my income level'. End of conversation I seemed to have grown a second head or something.
I had a kind of comparable conversation with my mum. Me and the missus paid of our mortgage, have 12 solar panels but that's still not enough for our full-electric houshold.And that, my friends, is a very unpopular opinion in my neck of woods.
Heh, I was having a discussion with my sister about taxes and she went 'what, you want to pay MORE taxes?' expecting me to say 'no not myself', and I said 'yes, yes I do. i should at my income level'. End of conversation I seemed to have grown a second head or something.
And that, my friends, is a very unpopular opinion in my neck of woods.Regarding the income-based fines, for the countries doing it, how do they figure out how much someone makes? Previous year's tax would be easiest, but how do they handle a situation where someone made a lot last year, but now they're laid off and/or making a lot less? I would love to see this method of fines implemented in America, but I can see it being a constant litigation of people saying the amount is wrong.
To be fully effective it seems to me the fine would have to be the large amount of x% of income or y% of assets. I’ll leave if “y” should be 4% of “x” as exercise for the reader…
I had a kind of comparable conversation with my mum. Me and the missus paid of our mortgage, have 12 solar panels but that's still not enough for our full-electric houshold.And that, my friends, is a very unpopular opinion in my neck of woods.
Heh, I was having a discussion with my sister about taxes and she went 'what, you want to pay MORE taxes?' expecting me to say 'no not myself', and I said 'yes, yes I do. i should at my income level'. End of conversation I seemed to have grown a second head or something.
To mitigate our electric cost further we bought shares in a wind-farm and our net expenses on electric (including tax) were -600 or something last year because of a long running contract for electric while everyone around us was getting higher prices because of the world-wide gas-price going through the roof.
I know a colleague of mine has a charity to give a big group of minimum income families a christmas food package. Not the high and mighty stuff that's expensive but not very useful but the actual useful stuff. I donated a big part of my return to his charity.
I also learned that someone who I sold a tablet with a defective battery to, that he was autistic and in a program to get work experience with very little income. I gifted him the tablet and told him to do his best and let me know if he needs some more stuff to work or practice on.
I'm also supporting non-profits that support parents with children with Down's syndrome (because of our youngest), autistic people in general (because I'm autistic and so is my eldest), emotional support dogs for disabled people.
And at the end of the day I see I can get a big chunk of what I paid to alllll of those back from income tax. So I file my income tax and get a chunk back and use that to support the charities more next year. Life is strange sometimes...
I wouldn't equate a particular country's tax policies with life.A long time ago in a Germany in the early 2000, a party did a big election campaign with "tax decleration on a beer mat" (right name? The small paper thing under the glass.)
There's nothing natural about the way taxes or charity is organized in a particular society, although it may be so ingrained there that it seems natural and obvious. Sometimes I think the couple of taxation systems I have experience with should just be blown up and completely rebuilt. It's absurd how some things are incentivized and others nudged a bit but then you have to compensate it somewhere else, etc.
I wouldn't equate a particular country's tax policies with life.A long time ago in a Germany in the early 2000, a party did a big election campaign with "tax decleration on a beer mat" (right name? The small paper thing under the glass.)
There's nothing natural about the way taxes or charity is organized in a particular society, although it may be so ingrained there that it seems natural and obvious. Sometimes I think the couple of taxation systems I have experience with should just be blown up and completely rebuilt. It's absurd how some things are incentivized and others nudged a bit but then you have to compensate it somewhere else, etc.
Needless to say it never appeared. And I doubt people would have been so exited if they thought a few moments about it, since that of course means all the deductions etc. would no longer be there.
It's often so painful seeing people spout deep convictions based on non-thinking. Like "how hard did you try to not get this?"
I wouldn't equate a particular country's tax policies with life.A long time ago in a Germany in the early 2000, a party did a big election campaign with "tax decleration on a beer mat" (right name? The small paper thing under the glass.)
There's nothing natural about the way taxes or charity is organized in a particular society, although it may be so ingrained there that it seems natural and obvious. Sometimes I think the couple of taxation systems I have experience with should just be blown up and completely rebuilt. It's absurd how some things are incentivized and others nudged a bit but then you have to compensate it somewhere else, etc.
Needless to say it never appeared. And I doubt people would have been so exited if they thought a few moments about it, since that of course means all the deductions etc. would no longer be there.
It's often so painful seeing people spout deep convictions based on non-thinking. Like "how hard did you try to not get this?"
Yeah, every few cycles in the US we would get some candidate claiming that they wanted to shrink tax forms down to the size of a postcard. Sounds great at a rally when everyone is trained to hate taxes, but complete nonsense when you spend more than 30 seconds thinking about how to implement it.
A long time ago in a Germany in the early 2000, a party did a big election campaign with "tax decleration on a beer mat" (right name? The small paper thing under the glass.)
Needless to say it never appeared. And I doubt people would have been so exited if they thought a few moments about it, since that of course means all the deductions etc. would no longer be there.
In the US, the tax professionals want tax code reform/simplification. When the people who earn a living doing it want major changes to make it less complex, you know there are problems. This doesn't mean tax returns on a postcard (btw, Trump did that, but all it did was shift a bunch of stuff off the 1040 onto several other schedules that would need to be prepared and attached), it means getting into the nitty gritty of the tax code and making changes.
I wouldn't equate a particular country's tax policies with life.A long time ago in a Germany in the early 2000, a party did a big election campaign with "tax decleration on a beer mat" (right name? The small paper thing under the glass.)
There's nothing natural about the way taxes or charity is organized in a particular society, although it may be so ingrained there that it seems natural and obvious. Sometimes I think the couple of taxation systems I have experience with should just be blown up and completely rebuilt. It's absurd how some things are incentivized and others nudged a bit but then you have to compensate it somewhere else, etc.
Needless to say it never appeared. And I doubt people would have been so exited if they thought a few moments about it, since that of course means all the deductions etc. would no longer be there.
It's often so painful seeing people spout deep convictions based on non-thinking. Like "how hard did you try to not get this?"
Yeah, every few cycles in the US we would get some candidate claiming that they wanted to shrink tax forms down to the size of a postcard. Sounds great at a rally when everyone is trained to hate taxes, but complete nonsense when you spend more than 30 seconds thinking about how to implement it.
Yeah, I wasn't quite suggesting beer mat or postcard level simplification :-D There's a big difference between simplifying and dumbing down! And I definitely don't hate taxes, although I do belong to an organization wanting to minimize taxes, but only because the magazine they send to their members is the best personal finance publication in my language. Their opinions, as most in my culture, are pretty mild and sensible.
In the US, the tax professionals want tax code reform/simplification. When the people who earn a living doing it want major changes to make it less complex, you know there are problems. This doesn't mean tax returns on a postcard (btw, Trump did that, but all it did was shift a bunch of stuff off the 1040 onto several other schedules that would need to be prepared and attached), it means getting into the nitty gritty of the tax code and making changes.
Of course if you simplify it too much many of them would be out of a job.
Reminds me I need to reach out to my CPA now since she's usually so busy it takes a week or two (and a couple of calls/emails to her assistant) to actually get her on the phone.
Not that I don't find tax codes riveting, but does anyone have an epic FU money story?Not really an FU story 'cause there's been no reason not to be polite, but I've turned down over half a dozen opportunities to start another business since I retired. I don't need the money so I spend my time the way my wife and I want, not the way some customer wants it spent.
Boo-yah!Not that I don't find tax codes riveting, but does anyone have an epic FU money story?Not really an FU story 'cause there's been no reason not to be polite, but I've turned down over half a dozen opportunities to start another business since I retired. I don't need the money so I spend my time the way my wife and I want, not the way some customer wants it spent.
Not in an FU sense but still something of a different angle from what I have seen, just inspired by the poster above mentioning turning down jobs in retirement:
A family member came to me the other day with a proposal that I take over their franchise when they retire. I'd helped them work on it in the past so I know an idea of what's involved and also how much money they ended up making once they were successful.
The franchise, if continuing to be successful (and I have imposter syndrome big time, so I'm not even sure I could keep it going), would general about 100k-200k gross. An enticing amount of money!
However thanks to MMM, and other financial forums, I realized that even though I am currently making sub-100k, it is a stable public-sector job with a solid pension, 457b, great health insurance plans, amazing supervisor and work-life balance, really generous time off, etc that I would be happy to continue until retirement with very little risk!
Oftentimes I think many people just look at the salary, but there can be other slightly less tangible benefits to a job that those not actively reading these types of forums may not think to count towards the benefit of their job. So maybe this is more of an FU knowledge, vs an FU money (but again not in an FU kind of way just the freedom to make decisions based not on money but what works best for our lives).
The franchise, if continuing to be successful (and I have imposter syndrome big time, so I'm not even sure I could keep it going), would general about 100k-200k gross. An enticing amount of money!Ohhhhh but gross is meaningless, the only thing that matters is net; that's what you need to compare to a salaried position (with all the benefits included) to have a true analysis.
The franchise, if continuing to be successful (and I have imposter syndrome big time, so I'm not even sure I could keep it going), would general about 100k-200k gross. An enticing amount of money!Ohhhhh but gross is meaningless, the only thing that matters is net; that's what you need to compare to a salaried position (with all the benefits included) to have a true analysis.
Sub-100k job… let’s say 90k.
90k + 6k employer FICA + 18k employer-provided health care + 4k employer 403/457 match + 12k employer pension contribution + vacation + holidays + sick time = 130k plus the time off.
100k to 200k gross - expenses - time off could actually end up looking a lot worse than the current job.
Sub-100k job… let’s say 90k.
90k + 6k employer FICA + 18k employer-provided health care + 4k employer 403/457 match + 12k employer pension contribution + vacation + holidays + sick time = 130k plus the time off.
100k to 200k gross - expenses - time off could actually end up looking a lot worse than the current job.
Not to mention that 457b option -- what is the annual cap on what you can throw in there? 457b accounts are AMAZING buckets for those who wish to FIRE to have access to. You get the benefits of a tax deferred savings account without the restrictions of a 401k. Much easier to access the money penalty free when you decide to leave employment. If it were me, I'd focus on maxing out those accounts as a sabbatical/trial FIRE fund.
Heh, I was having a discussion with my sister about taxes and she went 'what, you want to pay MORE taxes?' expecting me to say 'no not myself', and I said 'yes, yes I do. i should at my income level'. End of conversation I seemed to have grown a second head or something.
Regarding the income-based fines, for the countries doing it, how do they figure out how much someone makes? Previous year's tax would be easiest, but how do they handle a situation where someone made a lot last year, but now they're laid off and/or making a lot less? I would love to see this method of fines implemented in America, but I can see it being a constant litigation of people saying the amount is wrong.
I have an unimpressive salary and a stay-at-home wife. We live simply and invest in a boring index fund. Our net worth is in the top 10% of Americans (in our age bracket). Why am I barely required to pay taxes!?We generally pay taxes on income, not net worth.
If the top 10% don't pay income tax, then who does? Is the entire government funded by nothing but debt and promises?
Is the entire government funded by nothing but debt and promises?
FunFact: The British Pound is based on a loan to the king. If the royal head ever get's into his to repay all those 178 million pounds, the British currency would theoretically be worthless.Is the entire government funded by nothing but debt and promises?
At this point, yes, at least at the federal level.
Heh, I was having a discussion with my sister about taxes and she went 'what, you want to pay MORE taxes?' expecting me to say 'no not myself', and I said 'yes, yes I do. i should at my income level'. End of conversation I seemed to have grown a second head or something.
Regarding the income-based fines, for the countries doing it, how do they figure out how much someone makes? Previous year's tax would be easiest, but how do they handle a situation where someone made a lot last year, but now they're laid off and/or making a lot less? I would love to see this method of fines implemented in America, but I can see it being a constant litigation of people saying the amount is wrong.
I have an unimpressive salary and a stay-at-home wife. We live simply and invest in a boring index fund. Our net worth is in the top 10% of Americans (in our age bracket). Why am I barely required to pay taxes!?
If the top 10% don't pay income tax, then who does? Is the entire government funded by nothing but debt and promises?
Are we fresh out of Epic FU Money stories?
I like both of these thoughts and might even modify the first quote to "...most emergencies just become a non-issue." We've had a number of things come up that I've just shrugged and said, "Ok." when perhaps in my 20's or 30's it would have been anxiety provoking.
A few hours after posting this, I had a real life example. I large tree branch fell on the roof of my truck, putting several large (2 fists wide) dents in it. I was disappointed, but I have the $500 that will cover my insurance deductible and I can drive it. No real anxiety.
There are people, and a lot of them, who will pay someone to do their taxes no matter how easy it is. Plus then all the companies and people with complex situations.
You mean it's politically very difficult, since the ones with much money are the ones with much power. Mathematically it's not that hard.
You mean it's politically very difficult, since the ones with much money are the ones with much power. Mathematically it's not that hard.
Taxing wealth would be very detrimental for FIRE! Can you imaging paying 12%, 22%, or even 24% of tax on your net worth each year, you would never make it to FIRE.
Also, My wife and I earned way less then about half the population, yet we saved and invested our way to the top 5% over a 36 year period. Now you want to punish us for doing what I think is the right thing? I'll be countering your vote!
Not having our wealth taxed is the only way for the middle class to get ahead.
First of all Nobody, not even the Communist Party talk about those numbers. I think they wanted 2%. Mostly it's 1%.You mean it's politically very difficult, since the ones with much money are the ones with much power. Mathematically it's not that hard.
Taxing wealth would be very detrimental for FIRE! Can you imaging paying 12%, 22%, or even 24% of tax on your net worth each year, you would never make it to FIRE.
Also, My wife and I earned way less then about half the population, yet we saved and invested our way to the top 5% over a 36 year period. Now you want to punish us for doing what I think is the right thing? I'll be countering your vote!
Not having our wealth taxed is the only way for the middle class to get ahead.
So here we are, January 16th, about 45-60 days away from turning in my notice. I'll keep y'all updated as things start to happen.
You mean it's politically very difficult, since the ones with much money are the ones with much power. Mathematically it's not that hard.
Taxing wealth would be very detrimental for FIRE! Can you imaging paying 12%, 22%, or even 24% of tax on your net worth each year, you would never make it to FIRE.
Also, My wife and I earned way less then about half the population, yet we saved and invested our way to the top 5% over a 36 year period. Now you want to punish us for doing what I think is the right thing? I'll be countering your vote!
Not having our wealth taxed is the only way for the middle class to get ahead.
QuoteSo here we are, January 16th, about 45-60 days away from turning in my notice. I'll keep y'all updated as things start to happen.
Do that!
Is there interest from your side joining the company again? Maybe not under this boss? Or at a somewhat reduced workload (which is unlikely I assume)?
Because if you drop the ball, as you said, there will be panic. And you will be in a really really good bargain position.
Think about what could keep you there (after your sabbatical of course). If you still don't like it after half a year, you can always search for a new job starting next year after all (and make another longer break before that).
Well, your boss is about to set a whole different kind of precedent that the one he wanted to avoid. Congrats to you on making a bold and clearly very healthy decision!
I also have no idea what anyone would expect to achieve with some of the word choices in that call... So adversarial! And just overall weird.
@alcon835, when you submit your notice make sure to start the conversation with your boss with “This is actually the most one-sided conversation we’ll ever have…”
Before you submit notice, is there any chance the current state of your mental health would warrant short-term disability leave?
So, you're much too valuable for them to do without for 2 months, but not forever? Oy!
So, you're much too valuable for them to do without for 2 months, but not forever? Oy!
Yeah, I love how his reason for not negotiating is an admission that you hold all the cards in this negotiation.
@alcon835, when you submit your notice make sure to start the conversation with your boss with “This is actually the most one-sided conversation we’ll ever have…”+2. Please keep us updated as things happen. Good for you for deciphering what you need most right now.
Before you submit notice, is there any chance the current state of your mental health would warrant short-term disability leave?
So, you're much too valuable for them to do without for 2 months, but not forever? Oy!
Yeah, I love how his reason for not negotiating is an admission that you hold all the cards in this negotiation.
Seems to me you are missing an opportunity. Why not go above your boss to someone you trust and say, I'd like a two month sabbatical, I was told it wasn't possible. I wanted to have a chat with you before I hand in my formal resignation. You have nothing to lose.
So, you're much too valuable for them to do without for 2 months, but not forever? Oy!Someone completely caught in the rat race just doesn't have the mental capacity to think someone else isn't in the same situation...
@alcon835, when you submit your notice make sure to start the conversation with your boss with “This is actually the most one-sided conversation we’ll ever have…”Totally!
Before you submit notice, is there any chance the current state of your mental health would warrant short-term disability leave?
What is unfortunate about all of this, overall I like my boss. He just has a terrible view on work/life balance. I don't think I've ever seen him not working while on vacation, which is frustrating. I am not surprised he would do this, but I did figure his boss would say something due to my success and role in the organization.
So here we are, January 16th, about 45-60 days away from turning in my notice. I'll keep y'all updated as things start to happen.
So, you're much too valuable for them to do without for 2 months, but not forever? Oy!
Yeah, I love how his reason for not negotiating is an admission that you hold all the cards in this negotiation.
Seems to me you are missing an opportunity. Why not go above your boss to someone you trust and say, I'd like a two month sabbatical, I was told it wasn't possible. I wanted to have a chat with you before I hand in my formal resignation. You have nothing to lose.
In theory, this is the correct answer. In practice, it may lead to the boss feeling butthurt about having been overruled, and making your life miserable once you’re back from your sabbatical. Or even the company being the one making your life miserable later, since you’ve made it clear to them that one of their managers can’t manage and thereby somehow undermined their authority and structures. People can be very strange when they have effectively been outplayed.
Simply resigning now and then possibly returning later with a clean slate (and maybe to the team of a different manager…) is ”cleaner” in terms of office politics.
To answer many of your question, at this point I don't really want to keep working there. A friend of mine wants me to stay and has asked what could be done, but the more I think about it, the more the decision is made. I am going to finish out the fiscal year and be done. Maybe after my sabbatical I'll want to come back (assuming they'll want or need me then). But I really am looking forward to 3-to-6 months off of working with no deadline.Great - that's awesome. Keep us in the loop as to how it plays out.
Let's see how long it takes me to get bored.
To answer many of your question, at this point I don't really want to keep working there. A friend of mine wants me to stay and has asked what could be done, but the more I think about it, the more the decision is made. I am going to finish out the fiscal year and be done. Maybe after my sabbatical I'll want to come back (assuming they'll want or need me then). But I really am looking forward to 3-to-6 months off of working with no deadline.
Let's see how long it takes me to get bored.
+1. After 2 months, no one will put two+two together unless you spell it out for them. This is an upfront and honest way to handle this. Do not worry about "going over his head". If there are any office politics like that above your manager, then you don't want to stay there anyway.So, you're much too valuable for them to do without for 2 months, but not forever? Oy!
Yeah, I love how his reason for not negotiating is an admission that you hold all the cards in this negotiation.
Seems to me you are missing an opportunity. Why not go above your boss to someone you trust and say, I'd like a two month sabbatical, I was told it wasn't possible. I wanted to have a chat with you before I hand in my formal resignation. You have nothing to lose.
Sigh, yeah, it's frustrating when a coworker tries to tell you how to do your job when 1) it's not under their authority and 2) they're performing poorly at their own responsibilities. There's someone like that at my work, and people are wondering why this person hasn't been fired yet.
The trick is to find a way to professionally say "this is my responsibility, stay in your lane"?
The trick is to find a way to professionally say "this is my responsibility, stay in your lane"?
I've found a way to legally and ethically save the company $100K+ annually but we have to change insurance brokers. If you know anything about small businesses you know these relationships can be hard to change.
Sigh, yeah, it's frustrating when a coworker tries to tell you how to do your job when 1) it's not under their authority and 2) they're performing poorly at their own responsibilities. There's someone like that at my work, and people are wondering why this person hasn't been fired yet.
The trick is to find a way to professionally say "this is my responsibility, stay in your lane"?
Sigh, yeah, it's frustrating when a coworker tries to tell you how to do your job when 1) it's not under their authority and 2) they're performing poorly at their own responsibilities. There's someone like that at my work, and people are wondering why this person hasn't been fired yet.
The trick is to find a way to professionally say "this is my responsibility, stay in your lane"?
Problem with my situation is that until I showed up (my predecessor CFO was in the same remote office with the owner) the COO was basically the "Boss." He tries to control all information sent to ownership so he doesn't have to answer questions or can spin failures into why it wasn't his fault. He's gotten quite good at it after a decade or more operating this way.
To answer many of your question, at this point I don't really want to keep working there. A friend of mine wants me to stay and has asked what could be done, but the more I think about it, the more the decision is made. I am going to finish out the fiscal year and be done. Maybe after my sabbatical I'll want to come back (assuming they'll want or need me then). But I really am looking forward to 3-to-6 months off of working with no deadline.
Let's see how long it takes me to get bored.
To answer many of your question, at this point I don't really want to keep working there. A friend of mine wants me to stay and has asked what could be done, but the more I think about it, the more the decision is made. I am going to finish out the fiscal year and be done. Maybe after my sabbatical I'll want to come back (assuming they'll want or need me then). But I really am looking forward to 3-to-6 months off of working with no deadline.
Let's see how long it takes me to get bored.
Now that we're within the 45-60 day window, I'm getting itchy for an update. I will offer one piece of advice and that is to avoid making a major, life-altering decision when you're impaired. While it may be more obvious if you're drunk or running on no sleep, being burned out can be just as impairing to making good decisions. If/when you decide to hand in your notice, I wouldn't immediately reject any offers they put in front of you and I wouldn't burn any bridges if you can avoid it. I'd just keep it to the facts - you're burned out, your request for a sabbatical was rejected, so leaving is the only option you have. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to come up with a way to keep you and if they do I'd just tell them you're too burned out to make a good decision and you'll get back to them as soon as you can.
To answer many of your question, at this point I don't really want to keep working there. A friend of mine wants me to stay and has asked what could be done, but the more I think about it, the more the decision is made. I am going to finish out the fiscal year and be done. Maybe after my sabbatical I'll want to come back (assuming they'll want or need me then). But I really am looking forward to 3-to-6 months off of working with no deadline.
Let's see how long it takes me to get bored.
Now that we're within the 45-60 day window, I'm getting itchy for an update. I will offer one piece of advice and that is to avoid making a major, life-altering decision when you're impaired. While it may be more obvious if you're drunk or running on no sleep, being burned out can be just as impairing to making good decisions. If/when you decide to hand in your notice, I wouldn't immediately reject any offers they put in front of you and I wouldn't burn any bridges if you can avoid it. I'd just keep it to the facts - you're burned out, your request for a sabbatical was rejected, so leaving is the only option you have. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to come up with a way to keep you and if they do I'd just tell them you're too burned out to make a good decision and you'll get back to them as soon as you can.
Alcon835 posted in his journal yesterday: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/alcon835's-pausing-the-rat-race-accelerating-the-journey/msg3238392/#msg3238392
To answer many of your question, at this point I don't really want to keep working there. A friend of mine wants me to stay and has asked what could be done, but the more I think about it, the more the decision is made. I am going to finish out the fiscal year and be done. Maybe after my sabbatical I'll want to come back (assuming they'll want or need me then). But I really am looking forward to 3-to-6 months off of working with no deadline.
Let's see how long it takes me to get bored.
Now that we're within the 45-60 day window, I'm getting itchy for an update. I will offer one piece of advice and that is to avoid making a major, life-altering decision when you're impaired. While it may be more obvious if you're drunk or running on no sleep, being burned out can be just as impairing to making good decisions. If/when you decide to hand in your notice, I wouldn't immediately reject any offers they put in front of you and I wouldn't burn any bridges if you can avoid it. I'd just keep it to the facts - you're burned out, your request for a sabbatical was rejected, so leaving is the only option you have. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to come up with a way to keep you and if they do I'd just tell them you're too burned out to make a good decision and you'll get back to them as soon as you can.
Alcon835 posted in his journal yesterday: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/alcon835's-pausing-the-rat-race-accelerating-the-journey/msg3238392/#msg3238392
Thanks for sharing this!
I told my boss (who 99% of the time is reasonable) that I will quit in six months. I'm the only person doing my job, so a transition to some newly-hired person would be ideal. A brief email exchange:
Me: I might be amenable to a short part-time transition if it turns out that the timing of the hiring of my eventual replacement were near my end date. During a short transition I wouldn’t plan on getting involved in Task X, although I could be involved in doing just about anything else.
Boss: If the company is going to continue paying you, then you aren’t going to decide when you want to work and what projects you will work on.
Me: In the event of a short-term transition, there will be conditions on what projects I work on. Only one condition really, I just stated it (Task X). If you don’t like it, obviously there won’t be a short-term transition. Both parties have to agree.
Boss: There has to be interest on your end and there has to be an offer on my end. So lets just ignore this part time hypothetical until we get there.
I told my boss (who 99% of the time is reasonable) that I will quit in six months. I'm the only person doing my job, so a transition to some newly-hired person would be ideal. A brief email exchange:
Me: I might be amenable to a short part-time transition if it turns out that the timing of the hiring of my eventual replacement were near my end date. During a short transition I wouldn’t plan on getting involved in Task X, although I could be involved in doing just about anything else.
Boss: If the company is going to continue paying you, then you aren’t going to decide when you want to work and what projects you will work on.
Me: In the event of a short-term transition, there will be conditions on what projects I work on. Only one condition really, I just stated it (Task X). If you don’t like it, obviously there won’t be a short-term transition. Both parties have to agree.
Boss: There has to be interest on your end and there has to be an offer on my end. So lets just ignore this part time hypothetical until we get there.
So last Monday the boss called with the bonus numbers and I told him that as promised I was then ready to give notice to quit 3/15 when the bonus pays out. He asked me to stay for the rest of the month, and I was happy to do so. I'm currently only "working" less than 1/2 the time at this point.
Today he showed up in my office and asked if I would like to be an hourly employee. I said yes, as that is something that interests me and is probably beneficial to both. They still need me around for some projects this year, but hopefully with flexibility to work when needed and to not work when not needed. We haven't worked out any details yet, but I have every reason to think it will work out well for me.
Lessons learned:
1. Things can go from really good to really bad in an incredibly short amount of time.
Lessons learned:
1. Things can go from really good to really bad in an incredibly short amount of time.
Lessons learned:
1. Things can go from really good to really bad in an incredibly short amount of time.
There are 3 layers of management over most people. Regardless, the (up to) three people above you will have the most effect on job quality and satisfaction. Regarding this, I present to you:
Wendelken's Law of Management Quality:
Over a 5 year span of time, it's almost certain one of them will be a moron, nasty, and/or evil.
Plan your career and ability to change jobs accordingly.
Yesterday: I woke up early, typed a friendly/professional resignation letter and sent it to the president of the company. The president immediately called me, said he predicted that this was going to happen (he was aware of the recent tensions), but understood completely.Crazy that he was aware of the issues but didn't fire the project manager...
Maybe we found the moron.Yesterday: I woke up early, typed a friendly/professional resignation letter and sent it to the president of the company. The president immediately called me, said he predicted that this was going to happen (he was aware of the recent tensions), but understood completely.Crazy that he was aware of the issues but didn't fire the project manager...
Yesterday: I woke up early, typed a friendly/professional resignation letter and sent it to the president of the company. The president immediately called me, said he predicted that this was going to happen (he was aware of the recent tensions), but understood completely.Crazy that he was aware of the issues but didn't fire the project manager...
Maybe we found the moron.Yesterday: I woke up early, typed a friendly/professional resignation letter and sent it to the president of the company. The president immediately called me, said he predicted that this was going to happen (he was aware of the recent tensions), but understood completely.Crazy that he was aware of the issues but didn't fire the project manager...
Yesterday: I woke up early, typed a friendly/professional resignation letter and sent it to the president of the company. The president immediately called me, said he predicted that this was going to happen (he was aware of the recent tensions), but understood completely.Crazy that he was aware of the issues but didn't fire the project manager...
Right? That’s where I expected the story to go. I guess I was too optimistic…
When I get FI-money and if I have "bad boss" I feel like I'd be willing to stick around and try to improve outcomes. I won't care about "performance reviews" so what's the worst they can do to me? Fire me? How is that any worse than quitting? The project/widget outcome is the same. Why not "play chicken" with PM and hope they go down rather than you?
When I get FI-money and if I have "bad boss" I feel like I'd be willing to stick around and try to improve outcomes. I won't care about "performance reviews" so what's the worst they can do to me? Fire me? How is that any worse than quitting? The project/widget outcome is the same. Why not "play chicken" with PM and hope they go down rather than you?
Sounds good in theory... in my final +6 months I was vocal in pointing out problems and when I finally turned in my letter of resignation I think management was relieved that I was going away and the guy saying "yo the v2.0 of our core product is sort of shit" was going away and they would not have to hear that anymore. Turns out two others in similar to my role left shortly after me in a company of 25-30 people, the core of the engineering department was cut in ~half over 3 months.
See my journal for more of "dude you can fire me but like this product will still be crap" - link in my signature.
The universe is full of limits and boundaries. However, there is no known or theoretical upper limit to managers' ability to believe what they want to believe, despite all facts or evidence to the contrary.