Author Topic: Epic FU money stories  (Read 2283645 times)

Dicey

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3050 on: June 02, 2020, 06:40:33 AM »
My company just instituted early out every Friday.  We can leave at 1 if we have 40 hours in, and OT is strongly discouraged.  I love it!
Enjoy it!

SheWhoWalksAtLunch

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3051 on: June 02, 2020, 10:03:35 AM »
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is.  At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take.  Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job.  His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list.  It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment.  The DH quit the next day with my blessing. 

Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post.  The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck.  The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.

mm1970

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3052 on: June 02, 2020, 10:36:24 AM »
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is.  At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take.  Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job.  His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list.  It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment.  The DH quit the next day with my blessing. 

Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post.  The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck.  The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
This is pretty glorious.

BicycleB

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3053 on: June 02, 2020, 10:47:25 AM »
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is.  At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take.  Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job.  His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list.  It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment.  The DH quit the next day with my blessing. 

Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post.  The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck.  The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.

What a fun story!

Wait, it could have also saved your lives. Now that's epic.

goat_music_generator

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3054 on: June 02, 2020, 11:59:29 AM »
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is.  At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take.  Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job.  His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list.  It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment.  The DH quit the next day with my blessing. 

Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post.  The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck.  The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.

A+. Excellent.

I mean, it's unfortunate that you had to pull the trigger on this, but great to feel secure enough that you can.

Dicey

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3055 on: June 02, 2020, 12:25:40 PM »
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is.  At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take.  Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job.  His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list.  It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment.  The DH quit the next day with my blessing. 

Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post.  The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck.  The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.

What a fun story!

Wait, it could have also saved your lives. Now that's epic.
Epic indeed!

TomTX

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3056 on: June 02, 2020, 01:17:30 PM »
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is.  At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take.  Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job.  His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list.  It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment.  The DH quit the next day with my blessing. 

Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post.  The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck.  The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.

Sounds like a great exit.

Any reason you didn't contact the state labor board? Mandating employees buy their own cleaning supplies and PPE for on-the-job use doesn't sound legal.

SheWhoWalksAtLunch

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3057 on: June 02, 2020, 01:31:28 PM »
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is.  At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take.  Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job.  His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list.  It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment.  The DH quit the next day with my blessing. 

Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post.  The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck.  The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.

Sounds like a great exit.

Any reason you didn't contact the state labor board? Mandating employees buy their own cleaning supplies and PPE for on-the-job use doesn't sound legal.

The company has just enough wiggle room in the fact that they claimed they couldn't provide the supplies because everything was back ordered.  If DH wanted to keep his job he had to provide his own PPE or work without.  If he worked without, the company can deny responsibility for on-the-job exposure (you didn't follow our clearly stated requirements).  If he provided his own, the company can deny responsibility for same on-the-job exposure (you shouldn't have come to work).  Either way, the company was blaming suppliers on day one for the company's lack of planning.  We don't know if any supplies ever did appear, but through the grapevine we know that several customers the DH would have had contact with during those 6+ weeks have gotten sick.  Some were tested (results unreliable through grapevine) and some were just very, very sick.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 01:33:20 PM by SheWhoWalksAtLunch »

fredbear

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3058 on: June 02, 2020, 03:05:21 PM »
I...

Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post.  ...

I had a fairly shaky supplier who tried to get me to order her contractors to work for her and to tell them that unless they worked for her, there was no work for them.  It was important, she advised, because she was going to be taking 6 weeks off, self-finding.  I told her, "13th amendment, Jeannie."  That your husband's company would require PPE it would not furnish, and is now demanding he return to work, well, SWWAL, what monstrous, palpable, insufferable unconstitutional arrogance.   

One of the better posts on one of my favorite forum topics. 

Hayden

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3059 on: June 02, 2020, 04:30:36 PM »
I am really enjoying reading these stories! 

It reminds me of my grandfather - when he first starting working at a factory (this was probably around the late 1930s) the work day started at 8am.  Every day the boss would come out at 8am, lock the gates and not open them again until 8.30am.  Thus if you were one minute late, you weren't able to enter until 8.30am and half an hour of your wages would be docked from your pay.

After many months of arriving early and working hard, one morning my grandfather had a puncture on his bike and was a few minutes late.  The boss locked him out - my grandfather simply biked away, never to return! 

He got another job the same day.

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3060 on: June 02, 2020, 04:36:11 PM »
Awesome story @Hayden. Welcome!

marty998

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3061 on: June 03, 2020, 05:03:14 AM »
I am really enjoying reading these stories! 

It reminds me of my grandfather - when he first starting working at a factory (this was probably around the late 1930s) the work day started at 8am.  Every day the boss would come out at 8am, lock the gates and not open them again until 8.30am.  Thus if you were one minute late, you weren't able to enter until 8.30am and half an hour of your wages would be docked from your pay.

After many months of arriving early and working hard, one morning my grandfather had a puncture on his bike and was a few minutes late.  The boss locked him out - my grandfather simply biked away, never to return! 

He got another job the same day.

the boss doesn't seem like he's working too hard taking time out to lock the gate and unlock the gate all the time....

If it takes him 5 minutes to lock, and 5 to unlock (by the time he gets back to his desk), then 10 minutes a day, 50 a week = 40 hours a year just spent locking and unlocking gates.

That doesn't sound like a value add productive exercise...

talltexan

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3062 on: June 03, 2020, 06:23:31 AM »
Props to your grandfather for biking to work. I just got done watching the episode of "The Office" where Jim is trying out biking to work, and winds up so drunk that he cannot bike home safely.

Talk about a show that makes you admire these Epic FU stories!

alcon835

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3063 on: June 03, 2020, 06:46:34 AM »
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is.  At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take.  Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job.  His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list.  It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment.  The DH quit the next day with my blessing. 

Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post.  The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck.  The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.

This is why I love this thread! Great story and the right call. This is exactly what FU money is for.

ZsaZsa

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3064 on: June 03, 2020, 07:43:05 AM »
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is.  At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take.  Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job.  His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list.  It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment.  The DH quit the next day with my blessing. 

Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post.  The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck.  The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.

"pre-FIRE smoke break"...I love it!

Dicey

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3065 on: June 03, 2020, 08:07:19 AM »
 It's a thing. I believe @couponvan is our longest running chain smoker smoke breaker.

Plina

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3066 on: June 03, 2020, 11:42:40 AM »
I had a fuck you moment with my boss today. I was supposed to take the notes today at the company annual meeting and a board meeting. Yesterday, I realised that they had made a procedural mistake in the process as a result of that the meeting was made digital due to Corona. The rules that guide the annual meetings are really strict and if you donít follow them it can make the decisions  invalid. I found it out accidentally so I outlined the problem to my boss at a meeting yesterday but she didnít see it as a problem.

I could not let it go so I spent some more time doing research and  half of the night thinking about it and came to the conclusion that I could not go to the meeting and pretend everything is ok. There is a point in the meeting agenda were the ask if the board has invited everyone correctly..  I talked to another lawyer this morning and we found a way to do it so it would tick all the legal boxes by changing the setup. My boss had a talk with the chairman of the board that is formally responsible for the meeting and they had decided to proceed in a way that partly hides the problem. Their solution could have solved the problem if they had documented the decision but it would have forced them to admit the mistake. Her concluding remark was that the chairman had decided that they would do like that.

So i told her that I could not take the notes as I could not sit there and pretend that everything is ok from a legal point of view. I told her that it would feel wrong and unethical. I suggested that a colleague could jump in and take the notes if it was ok to her.

 She hates to admit mistakes and look bad in front of the board but she also says she canít stand when people lie. I donít understand how she explains this to herself. The funny thing is that we had a workshop about conflictsolving and resolution yesterday before this shit blew up. I could conclude to a colleague today that we had a conflict of values.

She avoided everybody after the meetings today so it will be interesting to see her approach tomorrow. Legally she canít fire me and I would guess she didnít want this to blow up in her face so I am not worried about losing my job. She doesnít like conflicts so my guess is we will have a talk and then she will pretend that this never happaned. Me, I am pretty tired already after 7 months at this place so I am pretty much prepared to leave after my three months long notice with a bullshit reason. I have been thinking about starting my own law practice but within a years time when I have more money saved. I have money for a year without a salary. It is in stocks and cash but it is difficult to predict what the effects will be of this current Corona-crisis. I could probably find a new job without problems but I am tired of corporate bs and bosses and would prefer to be my own.

Edited to make it less rambling.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 10:20:32 PM by Plina »

Dicey

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3067 on: June 03, 2020, 08:16:37 PM »
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is.  At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take.  Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job.  His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list.  It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment.  The DH quit the next day with my blessing. 

Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post.  The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck.  The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
I just read this to DH and he's pretty adamant that you could file and be approved under the circumstances. Might be worth looking into.

RWTL

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3068 on: June 04, 2020, 04:20:10 AM »
I had a fuck you moment with my boss today. I was supposed to take the notes today at the company annual meeting and a board meeting. Yesterday, I realised that they had made a procedural mistake in the process as a result of that the meeting was made digital due to Corona. The rules that guide the annual meetings are really strict and if you donít follow them it can make the decisions  invalid. I found it out accidentally so I outlined the problem to my boss at a meeting yesterday but she didnít see it as a problem.

I could not let it go so I spent some more time doing research and  half of the night thinking about it and came to the conclusion that I could not go to the meeting and pretend everything is ok. There is a point in the meeting agenda were the ask if the board has invited everyone correctly..  I talked to another lawyer this morning and we found a way to do it so it would tick all the legal boxes by changing the setup. My boss had a talk with the chairman of the board that is formally responsible for the meeting and they had decided to proceed in a way that partly hides the problem. Their solution could have solved the problem if they had documented the decision but it would have forced them to admit the mistake. Her concluding remark was that the chairman had decided that they would do like that.

So i told her that I could not take the notes as I could not sit there and pretend that everything is ok from a legal point of view. I told her that it would feel wrong and unethical. I suggested that a colleague could jump in and take the notes if it was ok to her.

 She hates to admit mistakes and look bad in front of the board but she also says she canít stand when people lie. I donít understand how she explains this to herself. The funny thing is that we had a workshop about conflictsolving and resolution yesterday before this shit blew up. I could conclude to a colleague today that we had a conflict of values.

She avoided everybody after the meetings today so it will be interesting to see her approach tomorrow. Legally she canít fire me and I would guess she didnít want this to blow up in her face so I am not worried about losing my job. She doesnít like conflicts so my guess is we will have a talk and then she will pretend that this never happaned. Me, I am pretty tired already after 7 months at this place so I am pretty much prepared to leave after my three months long notice with a bullshit reason. I have been thinking about starting my own law practice but within a years time when I have more money saved. I have money for a year without a salary. It is in stocks and cash but it is difficult to predict what the effects will be of this current Corona-crisis. I could probably find a new job without problems but I am tired of corporate bs and bosses and would prefer to be my own.

Edited to make it less rambling.

Always good to take actions that help you sleep at night.   I'm glad you have options to carry you on the the next job if this doesn't work out.

SheWhoWalksAtLunch

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3069 on: June 04, 2020, 07:56:48 AM »
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is.  At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take.  Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job.  His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list.  It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment.  The DH quit the next day with my blessing. 

Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post.  The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck.  The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
I just read this to DH and he's pretty adamant that you could file and be approved under the circumstances. Might be worth looking into.

We're in North Carolina where unemployment benefits are punitive rather than compensatory.  Under normal circumstances, quitting (regardless of reason) is an instant disqualification for benefits (and you have to be fired in very specific ways or you wont qualify if you get fired either.)  There are new Covid-19 exceptions that allow you to quit and claim, but you pretty much have to have an active diagnosis or live with someone with an active diagnosis or you don't qualify.  For us, its not worth the weekly hassle (even sick you still have to provide proof you're looking for work - from your hospital bed presumably).

BlueHouse

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3070 on: June 04, 2020, 08:03:56 AM »

It will put me on some list the director keeps of 40.0s (people that dont give free OT to the company)


I am not familiar with this term 40.0s.  Is there a phonetic way of saying this that means something?  Does this mean the director keeps a list of forty people that are considered to be zeroes?     

RWD

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3071 on: June 04, 2020, 08:08:07 AM »
It will put me on some list the director keeps of 40.0s (people that dont give free OT to the company)

I am not familiar with this term 40.0s.  Is there a phonetic way of saying this that means something?  Does this mean the director keeps a list of forty people that are considered to be zeroes?   

I haven't heard it either but I assume it's because they are working exactly 40 hours as opposed to even slightly over (i.e. won't work 40.1 hours).

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3072 on: June 04, 2020, 08:10:22 AM »
40 hours per week is typically the baseline expectation for people in the US. If you're hourly, you often start getting overtime beyond that amount. If you're salaried, you don't get paid overtime. But they still track how many hours you put in.

So the list of 40.0s is the list of people that only work 40 hours each week and therefore are seen by some as doing the bare minimum. However @engineerjourney correctly asserts these are actually the people doing it right - not giving free overtime to the company.

frugalnacho

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3073 on: June 04, 2020, 09:08:37 AM »
I have seen employment offer letters that specify more than 40.  Like you are being paid $80k/yr, but they specifically mention that you are expected to work 50-60 hours.  In those instances the salary and the expectations are crystal clear though.  All of my offer letters have been based off of 40 hours, so that is what I work.  If they want more than 40 they need to specify up front so we can all agree, otherwise I'm not just giving my time to the company for free.

BlueHouse

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3074 on: June 04, 2020, 09:51:52 AM »
It will put me on some list the director keeps of 40.0s (people that dont give free OT to the company)

I am not familiar with this term 40.0s.  Is there a phonetic way of saying this that means something?  Does this mean the director keeps a list of forty people that are considered to be zeroes?   

I haven't heard it either but I assume it's because they are working exactly 40 hours as opposed to even slightly over (i.e. won't work 40.1 hours).

Oh of course!  I am self-employed now so I just don't even think of working in those terms anymore. Thank you!

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3075 on: June 04, 2020, 10:43:55 AM »
I have seen employment offer letters that specify more than 40.  Like you are being paid $80k/yr, but they specifically mention that you are expected to work 50-60 hours.  In those instances the salary and the expectations are crystal clear though.  All of my offer letters have been based off of 40 hours, so that is what I work.  If they want more than 40 they need to specify up front so we can all agree, otherwise I'm not just giving my time to the company for free.

Yeah, but in the end most of these offers are nothing but an understanding of the initial terms as most are still at-will employees unless otherwise agreed upon.  Every day an employer can always change the terms (demand/expect more hours, cut pay rate (for any future hours worked), etc) and every day the employee can always decide they really don't want to be there and walk away.  My employer was dragging their feet paying my annual bonus and cut my pay rate when covid concerns hit...my complaints focused on what I had already earned (the overdue bonus) and accepted the new pay rate going forward was their prerogative.  When they sent me a email to reply to to confirm I understood my new rate my first thought was to say thanks for the offer but no thanks....but hey, its still a great rate and job set-up that works for me so no reason to get all FUey...

Plina

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3076 on: June 04, 2020, 10:48:59 AM »
I had a fuck you moment with my boss today. I was supposed to take the notes today at the company annual meeting and a board meeting. Yesterday, I realised that they had made a procedural mistake in the process as a result of that the meeting was made digital due to Corona. The rules that guide the annual meetings are really strict and if you donít follow them it can make the decisions  invalid. I found it out accidentally so I outlined the problem to my boss at a meeting yesterday but she didnít see it as a problem.

I could not let it go so I spent some more time doing research and  half of the night thinking about it and came to the conclusion that I could not go to the meeting and pretend everything is ok. There is a point in the meeting agenda were the ask if the board has invited everyone correctly..  I talked to another lawyer this morning and we found a way to do it so it would tick all the legal boxes by changing the setup. My boss had a talk with the chairman of the board that is formally responsible for the meeting and they had decided to proceed in a way that partly hides the problem. Their solution could have solved the problem if they had documented the decision but it would have forced them to admit the mistake. Her concluding remark was that the chairman had decided that they would do like that.

So i told her that I could not take the notes as I could not sit there and pretend that everything is ok from a legal point of view. I told her that it would feel wrong and unethical. I suggested that a colleague could jump in and take the notes if it was ok to her.

 She hates to admit mistakes and look bad in front of the board but she also says she canít stand when people lie. I donít understand how she explains this to herself. The funny thing is that we had a workshop about conflictsolving and resolution yesterday before this shit blew up. I could conclude to a colleague today that we had a conflict of values.

She avoided everybody after the meetings today so it will be interesting to see her approach tomorrow. Legally she canít fire me and I would guess she didnít want this to blow up in her face so I am not worried about losing my job. She doesnít like conflicts so my guess is we will have a talk and then she will pretend that this never happaned. Me, I am pretty tired already after 7 months at this place so I am pretty much prepared to leave after my three months long notice with a bullshit reason. I have been thinking about starting my own law practice but within a years time when I have more money saved. I have money for a year without a salary. It is in stocks and cash but it is difficult to predict what the effects will be of this current Corona-crisis. I could probably find a new job without problems but I am tired of corporate bs and bosses and would prefer to be my own.

Edited to make it less rambling.

Always good to take actions that help you sleep at night.   I'm glad you have options to carry you on the the next job if this doesn't work out.

Yes, it is nice to have options. She gave me a speech today of how she has less trust in me as I had put the reputation of the company in jeopardy and caused trouble for her and my colleague. I will apologize to my colleague tomorrow for putting her in a difficult spot but I knew that she was totally capable to pull it off. I also got a legal letter that notified me that she thought I had violated my work contract by refusing doing a task and that was in breech with my loyalty duty to the company as it could have damaged the owners picture of the company. It should be read that it could have damaged the picture of her.

And by that action she pretty much guaranteed that she will get my letter of resignation. I haven't decided if she will get it right before her vacation starts or after I am back from my vacation. Probably after my vacation because by postponing it until the end of august I can sock away about 6-8 months of expenses during my period of notice. July-August will basically be vacation time. It will also allow me to explore some connections before deciding if I want be self-employed or not.

We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3077 on: June 04, 2020, 10:57:27 AM »
Yes, it is nice to have options. She gave me a speech today of how she has less trust in me as I had put the reputation of the company in jeopardy and caused trouble for her and my colleague. I will apologize to my colleague tomorrow for putting her in a difficult spot but I knew that she was totally capable to pull it off. I also got a legal letter that notified me that she thought I had violated my work contract by refusing doing a task and that was in breech with my loyalty duty to the company as it could have damaged the owners picture of the company. It should be read that it could have damaged the picture of her.

And by that action she pretty much guaranteed that she will get my letter of resignation. I haven't decided if she will get it right before her vacation starts or after I am back from my vacation. Probably after my vacation because by postponing it until the end of august I can sock away about 6-8 months of expenses during my period of notice. July-August will basically be vacation time. It will also allow me to explore some connections before deciding if I want be self-employed or not.

We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.
What I have learned from a lot of other people's experience is to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, and back it up somewhere separate, i.e. somewhere where you won't lose access to it upon separation.  In your response, lay out explicitly what the request was, and how/why it was unethical/illegal/whatever, and the potential consequences of requiring an employee to perform said request.  It may also be appropriate to CC others in the chain of command, so that there's no plausible deniability.

Plina

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3078 on: June 04, 2020, 11:23:42 AM »
Yes, it is nice to have options. She gave me a speech today of how she has less trust in me as I had put the reputation of the company in jeopardy and caused trouble for her and my colleague. I will apologize to my colleague tomorrow for putting her in a difficult spot but I knew that she was totally capable to pull it off. I also got a legal letter that notified me that she thought I had violated my work contract by refusing doing a task and that was in breech with my loyalty duty to the company as it could have damaged the owners picture of the company. It should be read that it could have damaged the picture of her.

And by that action she pretty much guaranteed that she will get my letter of resignation. I haven't decided if she will get it right before her vacation starts or after I am back from my vacation. Probably after my vacation because by postponing it until the end of august I can sock away about 6-8 months of expenses during my period of notice. July-August will basically be vacation time. It will also allow me to explore some connections before deciding if I want be self-employed or not.

We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.
What I have learned from a lot of other people's experience is to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, and back it up somewhere separate, i.e. somewhere where you won't lose access to it upon separation.  In your response, lay out explicitly what the request was, and how/why it was unethical/illegal/whatever, and the potential consequences of requiring an employee to perform said request.  It may also be appropriate to CC others in the chain of command, so that there's no plausible deniability.

I will document it but I don't want to escalate it too much by spreading it through email to others as I will have to be in contact with them in the future if I want to work in that part of the field. The company were I work has a lot of money because it has been constructed to spread financing in the field during a 20 year period. I can survive without doing the work but I don't want to cut out the opportunity. My boss, who is the CEO, would need to be pretty stupid to let this out because I don't think it would be looked favorably by the owners or others that she tried to cover up things. I am the lawyer in the company. So when I leave the company most of the people outside the company will get a bs reason to why I leave.

Chris @ Saturday Financial

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3079 on: June 04, 2020, 11:32:38 AM »
Yes, it is nice to have options. She gave me a speech today of how she has less trust in me as I had put the reputation of the company in jeopardy and caused trouble for her and my colleague. I will apologize to my colleague tomorrow for putting her in a difficult spot but I knew that she was totally capable to pull it off. I also got a legal letter that notified me that she thought I had violated my work contract by refusing doing a task and that was in breech with my loyalty duty to the company as it could have damaged the owners picture of the company. It should be read that it could have damaged the picture of her.

And by that action she pretty much guaranteed that she will get my letter of resignation. I haven't decided if she will get it right before her vacation starts or after I am back from my vacation. Probably after my vacation because by postponing it until the end of august I can sock away about 6-8 months of expenses during my period of notice. July-August will basically be vacation time. It will also allow me to explore some connections before deciding if I want be self-employed or not.

We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.
What I have learned from a lot of other people's experience is to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, and back it up somewhere separate, i.e. somewhere where you won't lose access to it upon separation.  In your response, lay out explicitly what the request was, and how/why it was unethical/illegal/whatever, and the potential consequences of requiring an employee to perform said request.  It may also be appropriate to CC others in the chain of command, so that there's no plausible deniability.

I will document it but I don't want to escalate it too much by spreading it through email to others as I will have to be in contact with them in the future if I want to work in that part of the field. The company were I work has a lot of money because it has been constructed to spread financing in the field during a 20 year period. I can survive without doing the work but I don't want to cut out the opportunity. My boss, who is the CEO, would need to be pretty stupid to let this out because I don't think it would be looked favorably by the owners or others that she tried to cover up things. I am the lawyer in the company. So when I leave the company most of the people outside the company will get a bs reason to why I leave.

You don't need to copy others in the email, but responding to the letter is great advice. In your response, I would also mention that you were acting in the best interest of the company. You noticed that the law would be broken, and you took all of the steps within your power to prevent the law from being broken. Frame everything from the perspective that you were/are attempting to follow the law while also respectfully yielding to her authority as your boss. Be respectful but firm in your communication. From what I understand, her actions are the ones that put the reputation of the company at risk.

ETA: After re-reading I'm not sure whether a law was broken or a rule (without the force of law) was broken. You're the lawyer and you're much closer to the actual situation, so obviously you should act as you feel is best. Regardless, it appears that you were not only acting in accordance with your ethical compass but also in the best interest of the company.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 11:40:28 AM by Chris @ Saturday Financial »

markbike528CBX

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3080 on: June 04, 2020, 11:42:26 AM »
Yes, it is nice to have options. She gave me a speech today of how she has less trust in me as I had put the reputation of the company in jeopardy and caused trouble for her and my colleague. I will apologize to my colleague tomorrow for putting her in a difficult spot but I knew that she was totally capable to pull it off. I also got a legal letter that notified me that she thought I had violated my work contract by refusing doing a task and that was in breech with my loyalty duty to the company as it could have damaged the owners picture of the company. It should be read that it could have damaged the picture of her.

And by that action she pretty much guaranteed that she will get my letter of resignation. I haven't decided if she will get it right before her vacation starts or after I am back from my vacation. Probably after my vacation because by postponing it until the end of august I can sock away about 6-8 months of expenses during my period of notice. July-August will basically be vacation time. It will also allow me to explore some connections before deciding if I want be self-employed or not.

We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.
What I have learned from a lot of other people's experience is to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, and back it up somewhere separate, i.e. somewhere where you won't lose access to it upon separation.  In your response, lay out explicitly what the request was, and how/why it was unethical/illegal/whatever, and the potential consequences of requiring an employee to perform said request.  It may also be appropriate to CC others in the chain of command, so that there's no plausible deniability.

I will document it but I don't want to escalate it too much by spreading it through email to others as I will have to be in contact with them in the future if I want to work in that part of the field. The company were I work has a lot of money because it has been constructed to spread financing in the field during a 20 year period. I can survive without doing the work but I don't want to cut out the opportunity. My boss, who is the CEO, would need to be pretty stupid to let this out because I don't think it would be looked favorably by the owners or others that she tried to cover up things. I am the lawyer in the company. So when I leave the company most of the people outside the company will get a bs reason to why I leave.

+1 to zolotiyeruki statement of documenting.
But wait, CEO gave you a legal letter documenting that there was, in fact, an incident?  WTF? 
This makes your documentation a simple matter of referring to the incident and the letter a no-brainer. But you as a lawyer already know this....just saying for others.

If I was the CEO, I _might_ have written an informal note as a reminder for later and NOT give it to you.
At the most the CEO might use it later for a PIP (pre-separation Personal Improvement Plan) or denial of unemployment benefits.
I certainly would not have documented or even acknowledged the existance an ethical incident.
Edit to add "even acknowledged"
« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 11:45:57 AM by markbike528CBX »

Plina

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3081 on: June 04, 2020, 12:17:36 PM »
Yes, it is nice to have options. She gave me a speech today of how she has less trust in me as I had put the reputation of the company in jeopardy and caused trouble for her and my colleague. I will apologize to my colleague tomorrow for putting her in a difficult spot but I knew that she was totally capable to pull it off. I also got a legal letter that notified me that she thought I had violated my work contract by refusing doing a task and that was in breech with my loyalty duty to the company as it could have damaged the owners picture of the company. It should be read that it could have damaged the picture of her.

And by that action she pretty much guaranteed that she will get my letter of resignation. I haven't decided if she will get it right before her vacation starts or after I am back from my vacation. Probably after my vacation because by postponing it until the end of august I can sock away about 6-8 months of expenses during my period of notice. July-August will basically be vacation time. It will also allow me to explore some connections before deciding if I want be self-employed or not.

We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.
What I have learned from a lot of other people's experience is to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, and back it up somewhere separate, i.e. somewhere where you won't lose access to it upon separation.  In your response, lay out explicitly what the request was, and how/why it was unethical/illegal/whatever, and the potential consequences of requiring an employee to perform said request.  It may also be appropriate to CC others in the chain of command, so that there's no plausible deniability.

I will document it but I don't want to escalate it too much by spreading it through email to others as I will have to be in contact with them in the future if I want to work in that part of the field. The company were I work has a lot of money because it has been constructed to spread financing in the field during a 20 year period. I can survive without doing the work but I don't want to cut out the opportunity. My boss, who is the CEO, would need to be pretty stupid to let this out because I don't think it would be looked favorably by the owners or others that she tried to cover up things. I am the lawyer in the company. So when I leave the company most of the people outside the company will get a bs reason to why I leave.

You don't need to copy others in the email, but responding to the letter is great advice. In your response, I would also mention that you were acting in the best interest of the company. You noticed that the law would be broken, and you took all of the steps within your power to prevent the law from being broken. Frame everything from the perspective that you were/are attempting to follow the law while also respectfully yielding to her authority as your boss. Be respectful but firm in your communication. From what I understand, her actions are the ones that put the reputation of the company at risk.

ETA: After re-reading I'm not sure whether a law was broken or a rule (without the force of law) was broken. You're the lawyer and you're much closer to the actual situation, so obviously you should act as you feel is best. Regardless, it appears that you were not only acting in accordance with your ethical compass but also in the best interest of the company.

I will respond to the letter. Good point of the framing. I will put a lot of emphasis on the best interest of the company and outline the actions that could have been taken instead of breaking the law so that if she chooses to take it further she can't do it without getting in trouble herself. I would say she broke a law, where the consequence would be that annual meeting and the decisions made there would be invalid if somebody decided to question it in court.

We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.
What I have learned from a lot of other people's experience is to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, and back it up somewhere separate, i.e. somewhere where you won't lose access to it upon separation.  In your response, lay out explicitly what the request was, and how/why it was unethical/illegal/whatever, and the potential consequences of requiring an employee to perform said request.  It may also be appropriate to CC others in the chain of command, so that there's no plausible deniability.

I will document it but I don't want to escalate it too much by spreading it through email to others as I will have to be in contact with them in the future if I want to work in that part of the field. The company were I work has a lot of money because it has been constructed to spread financing in the field during a 20 year period. I can survive without doing the work but I don't want to cut out the opportunity. My boss, who is the CEO, would need to be pretty stupid to let this out because I don't think it would be looked favorably by the owners or others that she tried to cover up things. I am the lawyer in the company. So when I leave the company most of the people outside the company will get a bs reason to why I leave.

+1 to zolotiyeruki statement of documenting.
But wait, CEO gave you a legal letter documenting that there was, in fact, an incident?  WTF? 
This makes your documentation a simple matter of referring to the incident and the letter a no-brainer. But you as a lawyer already know this....just saying for others.

If I was the CEO, I _might_ have written an informal note as a reminder for later and NOT give it to you.
At the most the CEO might use it later for a PIP (pre-separation Personal Improvement Plan) or denial of unemployment benefits.
I certainly would not have documented or even acknowledged the existance an ethical incident.
Edit to add "even acknowledged"

I am not US-based so different set of rules. If she would want to fire me in the future she has to notify me that I haven't upheld my part of the deal and remind me of my obligations. My refusal to do my work once is not enough to fire me but if she can keep adding stuff like this she could use them as proof in the future of my negligence. Therefore I have to sign the letter to confirm that I got it and I might write the response on that letter for the fun of it to ensure that it does not disappear together with an email copy of it due to the time it takes to be delivered by mail. You know I don't have a printer at home.

Dicey

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3082 on: June 04, 2020, 03:15:11 PM »
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is.  At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take.  Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job.  His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list.  It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment.  The DH quit the next day with my blessing. 

Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post.  The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck.  The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
I just read this to DH and he's pretty adamant that you could file and be approved under the circumstances. Might be worth looking into.

We're in North Carolina where unemployment benefits are punitive rather than compensatory.  Under normal circumstances, quitting (regardless of reason) is an instant disqualification for benefits (and you have to be fired in very specific ways or you wont qualify if you get fired either.)  There are new Covid-19 exceptions that allow you to quit and claim, but you pretty much have to have an active diagnosis or live with someone with an active diagnosis or you don't qualify.  For us, its not worth the weekly hassle (even sick you still have to provide proof you're looking for work - from your hospital bed presumably).
Wow! Still? In CA, workers don't even have to attempt to look for work right now.

Also, I'd kind of forgotten what state you're in (see, I'm not a stalker), but I remember when I worked for a company that was based in the South, they treated their workers like shit and totally got away with it. People with decades of service were earning a pittance and were grateful to have jobs. Quite a difference on opposite ends of the same country. On the plus side, see how successful I've been at erasing my working years from memory, lol? There's hope for my work-related PTSD yet.

Zaga

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3083 on: June 04, 2020, 06:03:33 PM »
I hadn't been thinking of this as a FU story, but @partgypsy made me realize my current situation probably is.  At the start of Covid, the DH's company sent out a lawyer-ed up letter outlining the precautions all public facing employees MUST take.  Letter in hand, DH went to his manager to request the disposable masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning sprays clearly listed as requirements to perform his job.  His manager replied that the company would not be providing anything on the list.  It was DH's responsibility to source, pay for and consistently utilize the required safety equipment.  The DH quit the next day with my blessing. 

Now that the state and local shelter in place orders are being loosened, the manager has been in touch (repeatedly) demanding DH return to his post.  The manager can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that 1) we had't applied for unemployment assistance (he quit, we knew he wouldn't qualify) and 2) that he wasn't ready and willing to beg for his job back after 6+ weeks without a paycheck.  The DH is enjoying himself at home and we're considering this experience to be a pre-FIRE smoke break.
I just read this to DH and he's pretty adamant that you could file and be approved under the circumstances. Might be worth looking into.

We're in North Carolina where unemployment benefits are punitive rather than compensatory.  Under normal circumstances, quitting (regardless of reason) is an instant disqualification for benefits (and you have to be fired in very specific ways or you wont qualify if you get fired either.)  There are new Covid-19 exceptions that allow you to quit and claim, but you pretty much have to have an active diagnosis or live with someone with an active diagnosis or you don't qualify.  For us, its not worth the weekly hassle (even sick you still have to provide proof you're looking for work - from your hospital bed presumably).
Wow! Still? In CA, workers don't even have to attempt to look for work right now.

Also, I'd kind of forgotten what state you're in (see, I'm not a stalker), but I remember when I worked for a company that was based in the South, they treated their workers like shit and totally got away with it. People with decades of service were earning a pittance and were grateful to have jobs. Quite a difference on opposite ends of the same country. On the plus side, see how successful I've been at erasing my working years from memory, lol? There's hope for my work-related PTSD yet.
PA unemployment requires you to do I think 2 job searches a week on a state run website.  But only after you've been unemployed for 30 days.  I was unemployed for 2 weeks for covid, so I never searched.

engineerjourney

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3084 on: June 05, 2020, 06:58:22 AM »
yeah you guys figured out what I meant by 40.0ers.  My company is heavy engineering and lots of engineering jobs (at least in the USA for the discipline I am) tend to work you for 50+ hours a week for salary compensation (no OT payment).  At our company different levels are required to give "free hours" before OT becomes paid.  So for example a Eng I would have to give 5 hours free before being paid for OT (so worked 46 hours, would get paid for 41 hrs).  For a supervisor its 10 hours free before OT becomes paid.  Its expected that you dont watch the clock, so 40.0s are considered clock watchers and minimum workers (our time is measured in 6 min increments and you have to clock in/out so some people do time it down to the minute for leaving).  It has no bearing on amount or quality of work done.  Sometimes it is true that a 40.0er is a slacker but its not always the case so to me the metric isnt useful unless you have other performance issues with the person.  At the director level they are looking at Sales performance and the "free hours" are very useful to the company for making profits so they would love a ton of 45ers.  Just a part of being at a MegaCorp.  Since having kids I usually work 40-42 hours a week but now thats down under 40, haha. 

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3085 on: June 05, 2020, 10:05:44 AM »
yeah you guys figured out what I meant by 40.0ers.  My company is heavy engineering and lots of engineering jobs (at least in the USA for the discipline I am) tend to work you for 50+ hours a week for salary compensation (no OT payment).  At our company different levels are required to give "free hours" before OT becomes paid.  So for example a Eng I would have to give 5 hours free before being paid for OT (so worked 46 hours, would get paid for 41 hrs).  For a supervisor its 10 hours free before OT becomes paid.  Its expected that you dont watch the clock, so 40.0s are considered clock watchers and minimum workers (our time is measured in 6 min increments and you have to clock in/out so some people do time it down to the minute for leaving).  It has no bearing on amount or quality of work done.  Sometimes it is true that a 40.0er is a slacker but its not always the case so to me the metric isnt useful unless you have other performance issues with the person.  At the director level they are looking at Sales performance and the "free hours" are very useful to the company for making profits so they would love a ton of 45ers.  Just a part of being at a MegaCorp.  Since having kids I usually work 40-42 hours a week but now thats down under 40, haha.
Ah, I don't miss those days.  When I was in my 20s and 30s, I averaged a lot of hours every week.  I think my first year at this one company it was 47.5 hours a week.  That meant for every 40 hour week I had, I had a 55 hour week.  It was a pretty brutal schedule but doable at my age.  Those hours only decreased over the years.  I remember the boss telling me that 45 minimum was expected, because "you know those last 5 each week, or 1 per day are productive, because you aren't sitting around just waiting to go home!"  Um, it was actually in writing, which was illegal here at the time.

In any event, I'm old now.  I don't do that anymore.  When hours are needed, I do them.  When not, I don't.  We are understaffed and sorry, but your inability to staff or properly select the number of projects that are doable is NOT my problem.  Of course, plenty of studies show that increasing hours actually decreases overall productivity.  But hey, it's all about the numbers, amirite?

AMandM

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3086 on: June 05, 2020, 11:11:37 AM »
yeah you guys figured out what I meant by 40.0ers.  My company is heavy engineering and lots of engineering jobs (at least in the USA for the discipline I am) tend to work you for 50+ hours a week for salary compensation (no OT payment).  At our company different levels are required to give "free hours" before OT becomes paid.  So for example a Eng I would have to give 5 hours free before being paid for OT (so worked 46 hours, would get paid for 41 hrs).  For a supervisor its 10 hours free before OT becomes paid.  Its expected that you dont watch the clock, so 40.0s are considered clock watchers and minimum workers (our time is measured in 6 min increments and you have to clock in/out so some people do time it down to the minute for leaving).  It has no bearing on amount or quality of work done.  Sometimes it is true that a 40.0er is a slacker but its not always the case so to me the metric isnt useful unless you have other performance issues with the person.  At the director level they are looking at Sales performance and the "free hours" are very useful to the company for making profits so they would love a ton of 45ers.  Just a part of being at a MegaCorp.  Since having kids I usually work 40-42 hours a week but now thats down under 40, haha.

I have a BIL who used to do IT for a company that did data mining for lawyers. Everyone worked nonstop 55 hours a week, it was super competitive, everyone backstabbed each other, etc. Then he switched to a religious nonprofit. He hadn't been there a week when a colleague stopped by his desk while he was typing with one hand and holding a sandwich in the other and said, "Dude, it's lunchtime. Take a break." His internal reaction was, "Who is this guy who's trying to undermine me and get ahead of me?"  A few days later his boss said to him at 5:15, "What are you still doing here? Don't you have a wife and kids? Go home!"  It took him quite a while to realize that the organization really meant it when they said they value work-life balance.

RWTL

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3087 on: June 05, 2020, 02:40:26 PM »
Quote
His internal reaction was, "Who is this guy who's trying to undermine me and get ahead of me?"  A few days later his boss said to him at 5:15, "What are you still doing here? Don't you have a wife and kids? Go home!"  It took him quite a while to realize that the organization really meant it when they said they value work-life balance.

Isn't it funny how we are conditioned to think a certain way. 

WerKater

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3088 on: June 08, 2020, 03:16:51 AM »
Its expected that you dont watch the clock, so 40.0s are considered clock watchers and minimum workers (our time is measured in 6 min increments and you have to clock in/out so some people do time it down to the minute for leaving). 
Isn't it funny that a company
- makes employees clock in and out and measures their time to a tenth of an hour,
- yet when the same employees are actually aware of and care about the time they gave the company, they are derided as "clock watchers"?

evme

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3089 on: June 08, 2020, 03:34:52 AM »
This was some time ago. I was working PT about 25-30 hrs/week as a tutor/teacher at a private accredited tutoring center. The boss/owner was not a nice woman and ripped off the desperate parents while paying us indentured servants (err.... employees) peanuts, in the range of $12-15/hr. To supplement my income I started a side gig in e-commerce and quickly started making more from the side gig than the job. Eventually, significantly more. Anyway, at some point I realized I wasn't going to work for this woman anymore and told her I was quitting. I'll never forget the look on her face when I told her I was leaving -- total shock. She just said, "good for you".

talltexan

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3090 on: June 08, 2020, 07:47:18 AM »
$15/hour for one of those tutoring services actually sounds higher than what I would have expected (I, too, was working for one).

BicycleB

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3091 on: June 09, 2020, 03:37:57 PM »
This was some time ago. I was working PT about 25-30 hrs/week as a tutor/teacher at a private accredited tutoring center. The boss/owner was not a nice woman and ripped off the desperate parents while paying us indentured servants (err.... employees) peanuts, in the range of $12-15/hr. To supplement my income I started a side gig in e-commerce and quickly started making more from the side gig than the job. Eventually, significantly more. Anyway, at some point I realized I wasn't going to work for this woman anymore and told her I was quitting. I'll never forget the look on her face when I told her I was leaving -- total shock. She just said, "good for you".

LOL. Good for you indeed!

lv2glrfy

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3092 on: June 09, 2020, 04:16:53 PM »
Then he switched to a religious nonprofit. He hadn't been there a week when a colleague stopped by his desk while he was typing with one hand and holding a sandwich in the other and said, "Dude, it's lunchtime. Take a break." His internal reaction was, "Who is this guy who's trying to undermine me and get ahead of me?"  A few days later his boss said to him at 5:15, "What are you still doing here? Don't you have a wife and kids? Go home!"  It took him quite a while to realize that the organization really meant it when they said they value work-life balance.

Love this!! Stopping by just to sing the praises of religious nonprofits--I worked for one too, and I got great wages (as a mere customer service rep), 100% employer-paid high quality healthcare for me/spouse/any dependants, generous vacations, sick time, catered lunch, flexible hours, and genuinely kind coworkers. I'm sure there are some out there that don't practice what they preach, but in my experience they sure do.

evme

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3093 on: June 11, 2020, 06:30:02 PM »
$15/hour for one of those tutoring services actually sounds higher than what I would have expected (I, too, was working for one).

I think I started at $12/hr. Not exactly the best wage for a college grad, but I suppose it could have been worse too.

AMandM

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3094 on: June 12, 2020, 12:02:41 AM »
$15/hour for one of those tutoring services actually sounds higher than what I would have expected (I, too, was working for one).

I think I started at $12/hr. Not exactly the best wage for a college grad, but I suppose it could have been worse too.

That seems low to me. I made $20-25/hour ten years ago, though I did have a master's and I aced the mock SAT that all tutors had to take. Or maybe that's why that tutoring center is no longer in business.

BTDretire

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3095 on: June 12, 2020, 04:58:29 AM »
$15/hour for one of those tutoring services actually sounds higher than what I would have expected (I, too, was working for one).

I think I started at $12/hr. Not exactly the best wage for a college grad, but I suppose it could have been worse too.

 Gee, I started at $0.60/hr, but then it was only a couple years after graduating from elementary school!

Plina

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3096 on: June 15, 2020, 09:38:40 AM »
I had a fuck you moment with my boss today. I was supposed to take the notes today at the company annual meeting and a board meeting. Yesterday, I realised that they had made a procedural mistake in the process as a result of that the meeting was made digital due to Corona. The rules that guide the annual meetings are really strict and if you donít follow them it can make the decisions  invalid. I found it out accidentally so I outlined the problem to my boss at a meeting yesterday but she didnít see it as a problem.

I could not let it go so I spent some more time doing research and  half of the night thinking about it and came to the conclusion that I could not go to the meeting and pretend everything is ok. There is a point in the meeting agenda were the ask if the board has invited everyone correctly..  I talked to another lawyer this morning and we found a way to do it so it would tick all the legal boxes by changing the setup. My boss had a talk with the chairman of the board that is formally responsible for the meeting and they had decided to proceed in a way that partly hides the problem. Their solution could have solved the problem if they had documented the decision but it would have forced them to admit the mistake. Her concluding remark was that the chairman had decided that they would do like that.

So i told her that I could not take the notes as I could not sit there and pretend that everything is ok from a legal point of view. I told her that it would feel wrong and unethical. I suggested that a colleague could jump in and take the notes if it was ok to her.

 She hates to admit mistakes and look bad in front of the board but she also says she canít stand when people lie. I donít understand how she explains this to herself. The funny thing is that we had a workshop about conflictsolving and resolution yesterday before this shit blew up. I could conclude to a colleague today that we had a conflict of values.

She avoided everybody after the meetings today so it will be interesting to see her approach tomorrow. Legally she canít fire me and I would guess she didnít want this to blow up in her face so I am not worried about losing my job. She doesnít like conflicts so my guess is we will have a talk and then she will pretend that this never happaned. Me, I am pretty tired already after 7 months at this place so I am pretty much prepared to leave after my three months long notice with a bullshit reason. I have been thinking about starting my own law practice but within a years time when I have more money saved. I have money for a year without a salary. It is in stocks and cash but it is difficult to predict what the effects will be of this current Corona-crisis. I could probably find a new job without problems but I am tired of corporate bs and bosses and would prefer to be my own.

Edited to make it less rambling.

Always good to take actions that help you sleep at night.   I'm glad you have options to carry you on the the next job if this doesn't work out.

Yes, it is nice to have options. She gave me a speech today of how she has less trust in me as I had put the reputation of the company in jeopardy and caused trouble for her and my colleague. I will apologize to my colleague tomorrow for putting her in a difficult spot but I knew that she was totally capable to pull it off. I also got a legal letter that notified me that she thought I had violated my work contract by refusing doing a task and that was in breech with my loyalty duty to the company as it could have damaged the owners picture of the company. It should be read that it could have damaged the picture of her.

And by that action she pretty much guaranteed that she will get my letter of resignation. I haven't decided if she will get it right before her vacation starts or after I am back from my vacation. Probably after my vacation because by postponing it until the end of august I can sock away about 6-8 months of expenses during my period of notice. July-August will basically be vacation time. It will also allow me to explore some connections before deciding if I want be self-employed or not.

We will have a new conversation tomorrow were I will probably express my lack of trust in her after giving me this letter. She will probably get a letter stating my disappointment of the legal letter as I only followed my ethical compass and could not bring myself to brake my code of honor. :) It can be nice to have for the record and it would be nice if it led to a buyout but that is too much to hope for. I have to admit that I got pissed when I got the letter but now I am more amused by her play. I think it will get consequences that she has not thought about. I am grateful that I bought less apartment that I could afford and that I have a lot of savings. I probably would not have been as amused about this as I am if that had not been the case.

An update:
I have had two chats with my boss and a couple of ones with my union. In the first chat we concluded that she didnít have the same trust in me as previously and I concluded that it had also affected my trust for her. She also told that she saw that it would be difficult to continue working together with the lack of trust on both sides and asked how I looked at it. I told her that I thought we should continue working as previously because now I realised there was a possibility that they would buy me out. If I can walk away with X months of salary I will be pleased to play the lets continue as normally-play. She told me that might be difficult and I asked what she suggested. She told me she wanted to get back to me after she saw my written reply to the legal letter.

I left my written reply yesterday at the office and emailed it to her this morning. Today at our meeting she came back to the issue of the difficulties to continue working together. She also pointed out that the chairman was responsible for the mistake not her. She continued that it was clear from my response that I only was looking at what was best for the company. She though that I could make a good job somewhere else. I continued on the same line and added that I saw no other solution than continuing working together due to the bad job market. The only available job was at one of our owners. After some back and forth I also mentioned that I saw no other option than continuing as I was not prepared to take the economic consequences of resigning. She told me that the company might be able to help with that but she would need a couple of days to come up with an offer. I really look forward to seeing her offer. To be continued...

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3097 on: June 15, 2020, 10:32:46 AM »
An update:
I have had two chats with my boss and a couple of ones with my union. In the first chat we concluded that she didnít have the same trust in me as previously and I concluded that it had also affected my trust for her. She also told that she saw that it would be difficult to continue working together with the lack of trust on both sides and asked how I looked at it. I told her that I thought we should continue working as previously because now I realised there was a possibility that they would buy me out. If I can walk away with X months of salary I will be pleased to play the lets continue as normally-play. She told me that might be difficult and I asked what she suggested. She told me she wanted to get back to me after she saw my written reply to the legal letter.

I left my written reply yesterday at the office and emailed it to her this morning. Today at our meeting she came back to the issue of the difficulties to continue working together. She also pointed out that the chairman was responsible for the mistake not her. She continued that it was clear from my response that I only was looking at what was best for the company. She though that I could make a good job somewhere else. I continued on the same line and added that I saw no other solution than continuing working together due to the bad job market. The only available job was at one of our owners. After some back and forth I also mentioned that I saw no other option than continuing as I was not prepared to take the economic consequences of resigning. She told me that the company might be able to help with that but she would need a couple of days to come up with an offer. I really look forward to seeing her offer. To be continued...

Way to play your cards right!  Looking forward to the follow up.

Dicey

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3098 on: June 15, 2020, 11:12:15 AM »
Nice job. Thanks for the edit on the original post, it really did make the situation much easier to follow. The mustachian who started their own practice recently is @ReadySetMillionaire. It took me a while to remember, because RSM's not been posting as frequently lately. Maybe he'll see this bat signal, so I won't include any spoilers,  lol.

Greenback Reproduction Specialist

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3099 on: June 15, 2020, 11:45:04 AM »
An update:
I have had two chats with my boss and a couple of ones with my union. In the first chat we concluded that she didnít have the same trust in me as previously and I concluded that it had also affected my trust for her. She also told that she saw that it would be difficult to continue working together with the lack of trust on both sides and asked how I looked at it. I told her that I thought we should continue working as previously because now I realised there was a possibility that they would buy me out. If I can walk away with X months of salary I will be pleased to play the lets continue as normally-play. She told me that might be difficult and I asked what she suggested. She told me she wanted to get back to me after she saw my written reply to the legal letter.

I left my written reply yesterday at the office and emailed it to her this morning. Today at our meeting she came back to the issue of the difficulties to continue working together. She also pointed out that the chairman was responsible for the mistake not her. She continued that it was clear from my response that I only was looking at what was best for the company. She though that I could make a good job somewhere else. I continued on the same line and added that I saw no other solution than continuing working together due to the bad job market. The only available job was at one of our owners. After some back and forth I also mentioned that I saw no other option than continuing as I was not prepared to take the economic consequences of resigning. She told me that the company might be able to help with that but she would need a couple of days to come up with an offer. I really look forward to her offer. To be continued...

Very nicely done!! :thumbs up