Epic FU money stories

[Secretly Saving]

I have witnessed, first-hand, what toxic jobs can do to a person's health, well-being, and relationships.  Life's too short.

I spent my 20s learning that the courageous choice is the right one - to do the right thing even when it seems like a financial (emotional, relational, or general) disaster.  I never look back from those choices.  As one wise relative put it, "it's the things I didn't do that I regret."  FU money doesn't create character - it more so magnifies whatever character is present - but it empowers you to make good choices by making those choices cheaper and easier to make.  The hardest thing to do - that nags at you - is usually the one thing you need to do. 

My history and FU money - and especially God - had put me in a position of strength: I was then offered jobs based upon reputation, which made finding new work easy.  In fact, it was too easy: I first had to turn down things that paid well or had some attractiveness, but probably had similar demands.  (Again, thanks to the FU funds for making it easier.)  I love where I went next - my life is so much better - and I have never looked back.  Better hours, better pay per hour, better benefits, better health care, far better work, and far less stress.  Life's too short.

These three ideas/paragraphs really resonated with me.  I used FU money to put in my resignation last week.  I'm not willing to put up with toxic people nor will I let my family suffer (based on the idea that life is too short). I'm willing to make the difficult, but courageous choice (including standing up for those that can't).  Interestingly I have already been offered the next (and better) job which came so easily based on reputation!

I'm looking forward to walking away from one particular toxic coworker with a huge smile on my face.  I'm also looking forward to making a difference at a new job, while having more balance for my family. Thank you FU money!

[ramblez]

I wish I could share half the things I would like to here.  And some others' stories, too.  But alas, anonymity and all that.

However, I'll share some of my alternative uses of FU money (along the theme of this thread).  To me, FU money is helpful for self-respect - it empowers you to respect yourself, your family, and your other priorities, too.  On to the story part. 

At the time, I had a nice-sized emergency fund and realized I could live on very little.  I wasn't retired yet, and still am not (or even close), but I also realized that I didn't need to put up with the same level of nonsense I would back when I desperately needed a job (due to debt), either.  Life is short -- too short for some kinds of awfulness -- as I have learned through some hard lessons over the years.

So, my FU Money empowered me to start saying "no" to nonsense.  We need you to work through your holiday (on a project we have known was coming for months or weeks but didn't care enough to prepare for)?  No.  Move my wedding to work on a project that I asked not to be on because the deadlines were during my honeymoon?  No.  (With that one, I said I didn't care if I had a job or not when I came back - I would be gone, and they could figure it out.  They did.  And lo, I still had a job - with as much job security as ever, if not more, because they knew they needed me.)  Do something unethical, even though nobody would ever know it but me?  No.  Put my name on something that is absolutely awful and demonstrably wrong, just to look like we're doing something about a problem?  No.  Find someone else. 

The result: managers began internalizing the costs of their own failures - to plan, to allocate, and to care about people.  The workplace improved some.  I stopped hating my job every day, worrying about the next bomb that would drop.  I simply said no to bombs, and started making people respect some personal boundaries.  I don't check work email at 2PM on a Sunday or stay up all night for the job anymore, and that's just how it is.

After a while, the problem manager labeled me "Mr. No."  I just smiled.  This was ironic, as I worked hard, still put up with a good deal of the typical nonsense, and they knew this - which is why I kept getting the really tough last-minute things.  However, my own boss gained tremendous respect for me as a result, and began saying no more as well.   

Soon, the worst nonsense work began going elsewhere.  Management learned that I would not put up with it.  Eventually, I left the job anyway, even with nothing even lined up (no bridge-burning epic FU story about it; I kept it very professional, even though I told them why I left).  After I left, my former colleagues called me to ask if I could help them strategize about obtaining new positions or if I could hire them now.  Some simply burned out and quit.  Before long, all but a few were gone.  My old boss, the good one, called and offered to hire me pretty much anytime, anywhere.  Others realized that I wasn't bankrupt and didn't seem too concerned, so they asked for help with finances.  Sadly, I cannot imagine that it's better now for the few who remained.  As former colleagues left, they opened up more, and I learned that (as I suspected) it was even worse than I knew.  Most who stayed had no good options. 

I have witnessed, first-hand, what toxic jobs can do to a person's health, well-being, and relationships.  Life's too short. 

I spent my 20s learning that the courageous choice is the right one - to do the right thing even when it seems like a financial (emotional, relational, or general) disaster.  I never look back from those choices.  As one wise relative put it, "it's the things I didn't do that I regret."  FU money doesn't create character - it more so magnifies whatever character is present - but it empowers you to make good choices by making those choices cheaper and easier to make.  The hardest thing to do - that nags at you - is usually the one thing you need to do.  Over the years, those choices in my life have paid far more dividends than the rest, and continue doing so to this day.  (One of them led me into a relationship with my wife, but that's another story for another blog post . . .) 

And wouldn't you know: the day after I left the job, God sent me a check in the mail worth a couple of months' salary, totally unexpected.  I expected, someday, a check for maybe $100.  Nothing like that ever happened before in my life, and nothing like that has ever happened since.  I learned a lot about not worrying, faith, and trust.  Now I take each day's problems as they come, rather than worrying how the next year will turn out.

Meanwhile, that old employer never could figure out why other people wouldn't go work there, accept their offers, and so on.  I did not dish on them, as you may suspect: instead, I just never recommend them.  I'm sure someone else put the word out, and probably not as diplomatically as I would have. 

My history and FU money - and especially God - had put me in a position of strength: I was then offered jobs based upon reputation, which made finding new work easy.  In fact, it was too easy: I first had to turn down things that paid well or had some attractiveness, but probably had similar demands.  (Again, thanks to the FU funds for making it easier.)  I love where I went next - my life is so much better - and I have never looked back.  Better hours, better pay per hour, better benefits, better health care, far better work, and far less stress.  Life's too short.

“God” sent you a cheque?  Please elaborate on that.

[G-dog]

A FU story might be brewing with me....  My employer of over 13 years is changing their medical plan network for 2018, to a very restrictive network with only a small hand-full of in-network providers in Chicago. So restrictive that there isn't even a single MRI provider in-network in the entire city of Chicago, and a very minimal number of in-network facilities (a couple of hospitals, only one urgent care center within the whole city of Chicago.) Pathetic for a large employer of a skilled/professional workforce.  Compounding the problem is, they removed ANY out-of-network coverage too. Not even some astoundingly-high-deductible plan. Simply no out of network coverage.

I compared the network of doctors on the employee plan with the network of doctors on the most inexpensive healthcare.gov exchange plan for 2018, and the plan on the exchange had about 3x of the network facilities in Chicago.

The kicker is, it is a global company with facilities all over the country and the world, but our office in Chicago is the only one that is subject to such a restrictive health care network. Employees in other offices of the country are retaining their same nation-wide and much larger network of providers in their medical plans.  Yet our payroll premiums are the same.

I barely use the medical insurance and I am generally pretty healthy. However, I like having a medical plan that assures me that I can get care if I need it. The plan offered by my employer (and exclusively to their Chicago employees) does not reassure me that I would be able to receive quality care if I need it.

It's probably not easy to change jobs around the holidays... but a lot of companies are working through their budgets for 2018, so probably will be looking to move on in the new year.

Could this be a way to force enough people out of the Chicago office so they can shut it down entirely?

I would complain to HR, at any rate.  Might be that some low level HR person made a mistake when choosing the local plan.  Or not.   Either way, it doesn't hurt to ask, especially if you might be leaving anyway.

Lhamo’s first question was my gut reaction. Let you all self-select out of the organization.  It is very weird that this is happening at only one site.

[WhiteTrashCash]

“God” sent you a cheque?  Please elaborate on that.

The day after I decided to go, I finally prayed, quit worrying, and then I received a call.  Instead of a $100 check, as we had expected, we received one for far, far more.  We knew we'd be getting a tiny amount (from a settlement) but figured it was trivial.  Turned out to be not as trivial.  Timing couldn't have been better.  Our needs were provided for - thankfully, without having dipping into our emergency fund at all.  (As it happened, we wouldn't have needed the check either - we just didn't know that for a while after.)

It's always a nice moment when you realize that God has stepped in for a second to help out. :-)

[paddedhat]

I've always maintained a position that life is too short to waste it surrounded by toxic people. I hoped that it was rubbing off on our children, but you never know until they are faced with difficulty. My oldest boy was still in his early-teens when he got a job at a local Subway shop. He was a few weeks in, when he started telling us that the owner was a bit crazy, and obsessed with control and making sure that here minimum wage peons were giving her 110% at all times. He has always been a real hard worker, but one day his shift manager pulled him into a corner of the store for a talk. He asked why she wanted to talk in such a strange spot, and she made a paranoid comment about being "watched". He was a bit surprised by that claim, since there were no cameras anywhere. Shortly after, he was alone in the dining area, and leaning on a table for a moment, after scrubbing everything in the room to operating room standards. He heard the phone ring, then got called into the office. The manager told him that he couldn't be leaning on a table. He asked how she would possibly know that? since she couldn't see him from the office, and he is the only other person in the building? She then confessed that the place was loaded with hidden cameras, and the owner spent her time away from the store staring at the monitor in her home, micromanaging and calling to scream about who had spent more than a few seconds not working, or was doing something that deviated from exactly how she wanted it done. He told the manager that he was done, and called for us to come pick him up. I was really happy to see that he learned well. My wife OTOH, was of a much different mindset and had put up with some real abusive A-holes in some of her first jobs. She thought that he had made a big mistake. We agreed to disagree, and I congratulated him for doing the right thing.

[zolotiyeruki]

I've always maintained a position that life is too short to waste it surrounded by toxic people. I hoped that it was rubbing off on our children, but you never know until they are faced with difficulty. My oldest boy was still in his early-teens when he got a job at a local Subway shop. He was a few weeks in, when he started telling us that the owner was a bit crazy, and obsessed with control and making sure that here minimum wage peons were giving her 110% at all times. He has always been a real hard worker, but one day his shift manager pulled him into a corner of the store for a talk. He asked why she wanted to talk in such a strange spot, and she made a paranoid comment about being "watched". He was a bit surprised by that claim, since there were no cameras anywhere. Shortly after, he was alone in the dining area, and leaning on a table for a moment, after scrubbing everything in the room to operating room standards. He heard the phone ring, then got called into the office. The manager told him that he couldn't be leaning on a table. He asked how she would possibly know that? since she couldn't see him from the office, and he is the only other person in the building? She then confessed that the place was loaded with hidden cameras, and the owner spent her time away from the store staring at the monitor in her home, micromanaging and calling to scream about who had spent more than a few seconds not working, or was doing something that deviated from exactly how she wanted it done. He told the manager that he was done, and called for us to come pick him up. I was really happy to see that he learned well. My wife OTOH, was of a much different mindset and had put up with some real abusive A-holes in some of her first jobs. She thought that he had made a big mistake. We agreed to disagree, and I congratulated him for doing the right thing.

I feel like I've read this story before somewhere. Have you posted it elsewhere?

[SwordGuy]

Please report the business to your state labor relations board and to the police.
And to the local newspaper and TV stations. 

Might not accomplish something, might get the owner fined, jailed, or scared enough to quit doing it.   

It's worth a try.

[sequoia]

I've always maintained a position that life is too short to waste it surrounded by toxic people.
....cut....
 He told the manager that he was done, and called for us to come pick him up. I was really happy to see that he learned well.

Congratulations, I believe you have raised him well!

[paddedhat]

I've always maintained a position that life is too short to waste it surrounded by toxic people. I hoped that it was rubbing off on our children, but you never know until they are faced with difficulty. My oldest boy was still in his early-teens when he got a job at a local Subway shop. He was a few weeks in, when he started telling us that the owner was a bit crazy, and obsessed with control and making sure that here minimum wage peons were giving her 110% at all times. He has always been a real hard worker, but one day his shift manager pulled him into a corner of the store for a talk. He asked why she wanted to talk in such a strange spot, and she made a paranoid comment about being "watched". He was a bit surprised by that claim, since there were no cameras anywhere. Shortly after, he was alone in the dining area, and leaning on a table for a moment, after scrubbing everything in the room to operating room standards. He heard the phone ring, then got called into the office. The manager told him that he couldn't be leaning on a table. He asked how she would possibly know that? since she couldn't see him from the office, and he is the only other person in the building? She then confessed that the place was loaded with hidden cameras, and the owner spent her time away from the store staring at the monitor in her home, micromanaging and calling to scream about who had spent more than a few seconds not working, or was doing something that deviated from exactly how she wanted it done. He told the manager that he was done, and called for us to come pick him up. I was really happy to see that he learned well. My wife OTOH, was of a much different mindset and had put up with some real abusive A-holes in some of her first jobs. She thought that he had made a big mistake. We agreed to disagree, and I congratulated him for doing the right thing.

I feel like I've read this story before somewhere. Have you posted it elsewhere?

No but I seem to think it may be somewhere in my post history also.

[antarestar]

I've always maintained a position that life is too short to waste it surrounded by toxic people. I hoped that it was rubbing off on our children, but you never know until they are faced with difficulty. My oldest boy was still in his early-teens when he got a job at a local Subway shop. He was a few weeks in, when he started telling us that the owner was a bit crazy, and obsessed with control and making sure that here minimum wage peons were giving her 110% at all times. He has always been a real hard worker, but one day his shift manager pulled him into a corner of the store for a talk. He asked why she wanted to talk in such a strange spot, and she made a paranoid comment about being "watched". He was a bit surprised by that claim, since there were no cameras anywhere. Shortly after, he was alone in the dining area, and leaning on a table for a moment, after scrubbing everything in the room to operating room standards. He heard the phone ring, then got called into the office. The manager told him that he couldn't be leaning on a table. He asked how she would possibly know that? since she couldn't see him from the office, and he is the only other person in the building? She then confessed that the place was loaded with hidden cameras, and the owner spent her time away from the store staring at the monitor in her home, micromanaging and calling to scream about who had spent more than a few seconds not working, or was doing something that deviated from exactly how she wanted it done. He told the manager that he was done, and called for us to come pick him up. I was really happy to see that he learned well. My wife OTOH, was of a much different mindset and had put up with some real abusive A-holes in some of her first jobs. She thought that he had made a big mistake. We agreed to disagree, and I congratulated him for doing the right thing.

I feel like I've read this story before somewhere. Have you posted it elsewhere?

I think hidden cameras happen a lot more than people realize.

[rockstache]

I've always maintained a position that life is too short to waste it surrounded by toxic people. I hoped that it was rubbing off on our children, but you never know until they are faced with difficulty. My oldest boy was still in his early-teens when he got a job at a local Subway shop. He was a few weeks in, when he started telling us that the owner was a bit crazy, and obsessed with control and making sure that here minimum wage peons were giving her 110% at all times. He has always been a real hard worker, but one day his shift manager pulled him into a corner of the store for a talk. He asked why she wanted to talk in such a strange spot, and she made a paranoid comment about being "watched". He was a bit surprised by that claim, since there were no cameras anywhere. Shortly after, he was alone in the dining area, and leaning on a table for a moment, after scrubbing everything in the room to operating room standards. He heard the phone ring, then got called into the office. The manager told him that he couldn't be leaning on a table. He asked how she would possibly know that? since she couldn't see him from the office, and he is the only other person in the building? She then confessed that the place was loaded with hidden cameras, and the owner spent her time away from the store staring at the monitor in her home, micromanaging and calling to scream about who had spent more than a few seconds not working, or was doing something that deviated from exactly how she wanted it done. He told the manager that he was done, and called for us to come pick him up. I was really happy to see that he learned well. My wife OTOH, was of a much different mindset and had put up with some real abusive A-holes in some of her first jobs. She thought that he had made a big mistake. We agreed to disagree, and I congratulated him for doing the right thing.

I feel like I've read this story before somewhere. Have you posted it elsewhere?

I think hidden cameras happen a lot more than people realize.

I don't think the hidden cameras are the issue. Everyone knows that cameras are everywhere, or at least they should. The problem is the spying, micromanaging owner. That's what FU money is for.

[Dicey]

I think hidden cameras happen a lot more than people realize.

I think they're fine as long as the employees know they exist. Secret cameras are a whole 'mother story. And no cameras in bathrooms, please.

I know someone who owns multiple donut stores. They're full of cameras, so he can check on them from anywhere with  his phone. IDK if the line staff knows about them, but I'm sure his managers do.

[Laura33]

I've always maintained a position that life is too short to waste it surrounded by toxic people. I hoped that it was rubbing off on our children, but you never know until they are faced with difficulty. My oldest boy was still in his early-teens when he got a job at a local Subway shop. He was a few weeks in, when he started telling us that the owner was a bit crazy, and obsessed with control and making sure that here minimum wage peons were giving her 110% at all times. He has always been a real hard worker, but one day his shift manager pulled him into a corner of the store for a talk. He asked why she wanted to talk in such a strange spot, and she made a paranoid comment about being "watched". He was a bit surprised by that claim, since there were no cameras anywhere. Shortly after, he was alone in the dining area, and leaning on a table for a moment, after scrubbing everything in the room to operating room standards. He heard the phone ring, then got called into the office. The manager told him that he couldn't be leaning on a table. He asked how she would possibly know that? since she couldn't see him from the office, and he is the only other person in the building? She then confessed that the place was loaded with hidden cameras, and the owner spent her time away from the store staring at the monitor in her home, micromanaging and calling to scream about who had spent more than a few seconds not working, or was doing something that deviated from exactly how she wanted it done. He told the manager that he was done, and called for us to come pick him up. I was really happy to see that he learned well. My wife OTOH, was of a much different mindset and had put up with some real abusive A-holes in some of her first jobs. She thought that he had made a big mistake. We agreed to disagree, and I congratulated him for doing the right thing.

I feel like I've read this story before somewhere. Have you posted it elsewhere?

I think hidden cameras happen a lot more than people realize.

FWIW, these can be illegal in some states.  Most states require at least one person being taped to have granted permission; others require permission from everyone.*  If it's in the employment context, obviously check any documents you've signed, but if you discover someone is actually spying on you with hidden cameras, might be worth at least checking your state's laws.

*Caveat that my experience has been with audiotapes; not sure it applies to video if it didn't include sound.  I learned this when the real asshat bad guy in a case thought he was being clever by secretly taping our client, trying to trick him into some sort of admission**.  But not only didn't our client say anything to hurt his case, the asshat didn't realize that he was violating the law by taping our client without the client's permission.  Now that was satisfying.

[Sibley]

Well, I gave notice today at work. Wish I could say that it was epic, but honestly it was mostly exhausting and emotional. (The smoke detector deciding to start chirping at 1am about low battery didn't help with any of it.) I was honest about why I was leaving, and it seems some of the strain I've been under this year showed. It surprised me - I've apparently been employing some defensive mechanisms and didn't realize how much some of this has affected me.
 
Cliff notes of the issues: manager is alternately micromanage-ey and unavailable when you need her, then when you do something perfectly reasonable, tells you that you should have checked with her first. Her written communication style reads as hypercritical and disapproving, even though I know she doesn't intend it that way. Parts of my work require intense manager involvement/review, and she regularly doesn't do this timely. By the time she gets around to it, it's the last minute and becomes a frantic effort to make the changes. Then she tells you not to be so frantic (WTF? You made massive changes to the document half an hour before I have to present it to the VP! I gave the damn thing to you 2 days ago!). While this particular combination is annoying and frustrating for my coworkers, turns out that it's toxic to me. While I like her as a person, as a manager she's a disaster for me.

I've been assured by both my manager's boss and grandboss (various flavors of director) that they will be doing coaching and other things to address the problems. The grand boss told me that he'd been planning to move around the manager assignments so it wasn't so siloed, as well as moving some managerial tasks around to rebalance workloads. All of which is great and should really take the stress off the staff next year, but I don't think I can recover (and it is a recovery) without a massive change. Interestingly, he told me that he would wait to start anything until after my last day "to avoid causing me any more stress". Holy crap, what a day for my poker face to take a vacation! This guy is gruff, blunt, and doesn't pay attention to emotions. I think I made an impression, and I really didn't mean to.
 
They're not really pushing to try to get me to stay, which is not the MO for them. I was told very specifically that if I ever want to return, I just have to say the word. It's one thing for your employee to tell you that they're getting more money or a promotion going somewhere else, and quite different for them to say they're leaving because they feel un-trusted and incompetent due to the mgmt style on a near daily basis and are going to the exact same job but somewhere else. Especially when it's one of your high performers. I got promoted earlier this year, and another director who I work with (but not in my reporting line) hinted that I had been on the promotion list for 2018. (For context, it usually takes 2-3 years to go between these levels.) So clearly, they think I'm good. What a pity my manager had to convey the opposite impression.

I haven't heard from the great-grand boss yet, but I was also told he knows and is not happy. After all, he's got a team of 12 losing 2 experienced staff in the space of a couple weeks (my coworker's last day is Thursday, he's just as good as I am though we have different strengths). This puts a major project in jeopardy. I expect that I will be talking to him at some point. I plan to be more vague about why I'm leaving with him, and hopefully what little poker face I have will be back on by then. Whether or not he tries to get me to stay, we'll see. He generally takes his director's input on staff matters, though has been known to override. I guess it'll depend on why they're deviated from the MO in the first place, and if that gets shared.

I didn't talk to my manager today outside of a hello in passing. I will need to talk to her tomorrow, if nothing else to prioritize what I'm working on for my last 2 weeks. I am not going to tell her that she's the reason I'm leaving - I may be blunt, but I try not to be cruel.

I start at the new job 12/18. My last day at current job is 12/8. I'll be taking the week in between to decompress and probably do a bunch of painting at home. I honestly think knowing that I could quit if I needed to really helped me cope this year. Having FU money gave me the ability to change jobs when it was a good time for me, rather than having to scramble and potentially mess up everything else I've had going on this year.

Sorry for the book. This turned into therapy...

[iluvzbeach]

Congrats, Sibley. Sounds pretty damn epic to me. Hopefully the “therapy” and relief of getting this behind you will result in a good night’s sleep.

[Rowellen]

Congrats Sibley. I hope the next few weeks aren't too stressful for you.  Good luck in your new position. I like that you were honest about why you were leaving. Perhaps the manager can get some training to improve her performance.

[Dicey]

Whew! Wnat a story. Do you feel like a weight has lifted?

[Daisy]

Sibley, that IS epic!

You gave feedback to upper management and they are going to make changes,AND they are waiting for you to leave to institute some of the changes so that you are not stressed. It sounds like they really value your opinion. OR, in classic megacorp style, after you leave they do nothing and continue as usual. I'm hoping it's the former and not the latter, for your ex-coworkers sake.

[Sibley]

After a good night's sleep (with no smoke detector chirping!), yes. Big weight off me. I talked to the manager today and it went really well. I like her personally, it's just the work stuff that is such a problem. We're focusing on transitioning my work and me wrapping up what I can. I've got fingers in a lot of pies, so it'll be complex even transitioning.

[mm1970]

After a good night's sleep (with no smoke detector chirping!), yes. Big weight off me. I talked to the manager today and it went really well. I like her personally, it's just the work stuff that is such a problem. We're focusing on transitioning my work and me wrapping up what I can. I've got fingers in a lot of pies, so it'll be complex even transitioning.

It's amazing how the boss and their communication methods can make such a difference.  I've had 8 bosses in my current job, and a few of them SUUUCKED so bad that honestly I would *never* work for them again.  In fact, a recent position opened up that I'm interested in, right up my alley - not. gonna. do. it.

[Laura33]

Cliff notes of the issues: manager is alternately micromanage-ey and unavailable when you need her, then when you do something perfectly reasonable, tells you that you should have checked with her first. Her written communication style reads as hypercritical and disapproving, even though I know she doesn't intend it that way. Parts of my work require intense manager involvement/review, and she regularly doesn't do this timely. By the time she gets around to it, it's the last minute and becomes a frantic effort to make the changes. Then she tells you not to be so frantic (WTF? You made massive changes to the document half an hour before I have to present it to the VP! I gave the damn thing to you 2 days ago!). While this particular combination is annoying and frustrating for my coworkers, turns out that it's toxic to me. While I like her as a person, as a manager she's a disaster for me.

Wow, if it weren't for the parts I struck out, I'd think you were working for my old toxic boss.  I call it the "swoop and poop" management style.  And from personal experience, it is not fixable.  You did the right thing; congratulations on getting out of there.

[Dave1442397]

Cliff notes of the issues: manager is alternately micromanage-ey and unavailable when you need her, then when you do something perfectly reasonable, tells you that you should have checked with her first. Her written communication style reads as hypercritical and disapproving, even though I know she doesn't intend it that way. Parts of my work require intense manager involvement/review, and she regularly doesn't do this timely. By the time she gets around to it, it's the last minute and becomes a frantic effort to make the changes. Then she tells you not to be so frantic (WTF? You made massive changes to the document half an hour before I have to present it to the VP! I gave the damn thing to you 2 days ago!). While this particular combination is annoying and frustrating for my coworkers, turns out that it's toxic to me. While I like her as a person, as a manager she's a disaster for me.

Wow, if it weren't for the parts I struck out, I'd think you were working for my old toxic boss.  I call it the "swoop and poop" management style.  And from personal experience, it is not fixable.  You did the right thing; congratulations on getting out of there.

I had one of those almost twenty years ago. I knew I was stressed out, but I had no idea how bad it was until I left. The last time I saw my current manager was in August...he's very much a hands-off manager :)

[AlanStache]

Cliff notes of the issues: manager is alternately micromanage-ey and unavailable when you need her, then when you do something perfectly reasonable, tells you that you should have checked with her first. Her written communication style reads as hypercritical and disapproving, even though I know she doesn't intend it that way. Parts of my work require intense manager involvement/review, and she regularly doesn't do this timely. By the time she gets around to it, it's the last minute and becomes a frantic effort to make the changes. Then she tells you not to be so frantic (WTF? You made massive changes to the document half an hour before I have to present it to the VP! I gave the damn thing to you 2 days ago!). While this particular combination is annoying and frustrating for my coworkers, turns out that it's toxic to me. While I like her as a person, as a manager she's a disaster for me.

Wow, if it weren't for the parts I struck out, I'd think you were working for my old toxic boss.  I call it the "swoop and poop" management style.  And from personal experience, it is not fixable.  You did the right thing; congratulations on getting out of there.

I had one of those almost twenty years ago. I knew I was stressed out, but I had no idea how bad it was until I left. The last time I saw my current manager was in August...he's very much a hands-off manager :)

Yep there is a special level of hell for bosses that want to micromanage but dont want to communicate or review what you are doing.

[Bicycle_B]

Sibley, so glad you left.  Congrats on having your FU money and new job ducks in a row.  Have a great week painting!

[Sibley]

2nd update for you guys - the email went out around noon that I was leaving. The entire department is pissed I'm leaving. Like, staff, managers, directors, VP, everyone. Top to bottom, bottom to top. People from different states, other teams. All of them. I've had all but one of the directors pull me into their office to try to get me to stay, the last one wasn't in the office today. Multiple managers/directors have offered to put me on their teams. The manager I really like told me she feels bad she didn't realize how bad it was (she's in another state, and I haven't really worked with her all year, why should she know?). I overheard a conversation between 2 mgrs about how they're going to tell the business areas (I'm in internal audit), I wasn't supposed to hear that one. Apparently half the damn company loves me, even the people I've been giving findings to left, right and center. The 2 directors on my team are out of town until Thursday for a conference.

Along with that, half the dept seems to know WHY I'm leaving, without me saying anything. I just keep saying I need a change, and they're like, "is it her?" What do I say to that?!?

It was a very weird day. I don't know how to feel. 8 (working) days left.

[G-dog]

Wonderfully weird. It’s nice to know that you are so well respected and liked.

[AlanStache]

2nd update for you guys - the email went out around noon that I was leaving. The entire department is pissed I'm leaving. Like, staff, managers, directors, VP, everyone. Top to bottom, bottom to top. People from different states, other teams. All of them. I've had all but one of the directors pull me into their office to try to get me to stay, the last one wasn't in the office today. Multiple managers/directors have offered to put me on their teams. The manager I really like told me she feels bad she didn't realize how bad it was (she's in another state, and I haven't really worked with her all year, why should she know?). I overheard a conversation between 2 mgrs about how they're going to tell the business areas (I'm in internal audit), I wasn't supposed to hear that one. Apparently half the damn company loves me, even the people I've been giving findings to left, right and center. The 2 directors on my team are out of town until Thursday for a conference.

Along with that, half the dept seems to know WHY I'm leaving, without me saying anything. I just keep saying I need a change, and they're like, "is it her?" What do I say to that?!?

It was a very weird day. I don't know how to feel. 8 (working) days left.

You dont make someone you love work under a horrible boss.  Dont forget who put you there and who did not act to get you out.

[crispy]

Way to go , Sibley! Going on your own terms is epic! I had a similar manager years ago...nice enough but just a terrible micromanager. It was just soul sucking and really made me question my abilities.

[shelivesthedream]

I think the correct answer to "Is it her?!" is "I've talked to grand-boss (or whoever) about my reasons for leaving and given him/her any feedback on the company that I felt necessary." On repeat if necessary.

[UKMustache]

I suspect my wife may deploy our FU money in the near future.
She has a new boss and though Mrs UK often sees the best in people, she hates this person.

New bosses management style includes screaming at staff on a regular basis, reducing people to tears in meetings, blaming others for errors and stealing credit for accomplishments.

The latest issue is petty but incredibly annoying, it prompted Mrs UK to ask me if we will be okay if she quits... we will, by cutting some luxuries we can survive indefinitely on my salary!

Approaching Christmas her team (purchasing) are extremely busy and need to cover certain weekends (black Friday etc).

The rota was agreed 4 months ago, my wife would work Sunday 26th November in exchange for leave on Friday 8th December.  We are going on a family holiday for my mum's birthday and as Mrs UK and I had the 8th booked off, we agreed to drive down before everyone else and collect the keys for the cottage, put up some decorations etc.

On Friday 24th November (2 days before) IT issues crippled the online sales and an emergency 'queuing' system was put in place for the weekend.  This meant Sunday overtime was no longer required as sales were restricted.

As my wife couldn't work the Sunday, she hasn't got the available leave for the 8th December. 

She approached the boss and offered (I think) a fair compromise
I start early in the morning so I will make sure to work the time in lieu before the 8th and take a half-day instead.

Boss refused, stating that my wife starts early anyway so it doesn't count.
Mrs UK does start over an hour early (to avoid traffic) so is contracted to 8 hours per day and works 9.5 hours... every single day.

This has really annoyed Mrs UK because:

• This boss turns up late most days, including today (the day after this argument)
• The boss appears to have decided that Mrs UK's voluntary (unpaid) overtime is the companies right
• Mrs UK often works over weekends and late into the evening to get things done, so now feels very under appreciated
• We now need to completely re-arrange our travel, my dad will need a day off to travel early instead (self-employed so won't get paid)

She is friendly with one of the directors and is going to raise the issue with him.  If the company don't sort it, they are probably going to lose her!

[arebelspy]

Oh geez, * that.

She should be taking every Friday off (or half days) for all the extra hours she puts in.

[gaja]

I suspect my wife may deploy our FU money in the near future.

(...)

She approached the boss and offered (I think) a fair compromise
I start early in the morning so I will make sure to work the time in lieu before the 8th and take a half-day instead.

Boss refused, stating that my wife starts early anyway so it doesn't count.
Mrs UK does start over an hour early (to avoid traffic) so is contracted to 8 hours per day and works 9.5 hours... every single day.

This has really annoyed Mrs UK because:

• This boss turns up late most days, including today (the day after this argument)
• The boss appears to have decided that Mrs UK's voluntary (unpaid) overtime is the companies right
• Mrs UK often works over weekends and late into the evening to get things done, so now feels very under appreciated
• We now need to completely re-arrange our travel, my dad will need a day off to travel early instead (self-employed so won't get paid)

She is friendly with one of the directors and is going to raise the issue with him.  If the company don't sort it, they are probably going to lose her!

She has to stop working for free. Especially when it isn't even appriciated. Put in the 8 hours, not a second more. If you get no flexibility, you have to stop giving flexibility.

I have no problem being flexible at work, putting in 60 hour weeks when necessary, work late saturday and sunday nights to reach deadlines, etc. But every single of those hours get written down, and I will either receive OT for them, or take PTO. Usually, i end up with 7 weeks of summer holidays, and long weekends whenever it suits me.

If I want to work for free, I will volunteer at an NGO.

[UKMustache]

She has to stop working for free. Especially when it isn't even appriciated. Put in the 8 hours, not a second more. If you get no flexibility, you have to stop giving flexibility.

I have no problem being flexible at work, putting in 60 hour weeks when necessary, work late saturday and sunday nights to reach deadlines, etc. But every single of those hours get written down, and I will either receive OT for them, or take PTO. Usually, i end up with 7 weeks of summer holidays, and long weekends whenever it suits me.

If I want to work for free, I will volunteer at an NGO.

I agree, that is the same advice I gave her.

I've also said that it's cool if she wants to join a gym near work, so she can still do the journey early but doesn't have to go into the office.  If she sets off at 6am the drive takes 25-30 minutes, if she sets off at 7am it takes 1.5 hours.

If it were me, I'd stay in bed and set off after 7am... if the boss gave me a hard time when I was late I'd say they should lead by example... but I'm a dick and Mrs UK isn't :D


She regularly works with the director she is friendly with before official office hours start... I also said that next time he approaches her she should explain that she is in the office but not available for work because her boss said it doesn't count!

[gaja]

She has to stop working for free. Especially when it isn't even appriciated. Put in the 8 hours, not a second more. If you get no flexibility, you have to stop giving flexibility.

I have no problem being flexible at work, putting in 60 hour weeks when necessary, work late saturday and sunday nights to reach deadlines, etc. But every single of those hours get written down, and I will either receive OT for them, or take PTO. Usually, i end up with 7 weeks of summer holidays, and long weekends whenever it suits me.

If I want to work for free, I will volunteer at an NGO.

I agree, that is the same advice I gave her.

I've also said that it's cool if she wants to join a gym near work, so she can still do the journey early but doesn't have to go into the office.  If she sets off at 6am the drive takes 25-30 minutes, if she sets off at 7am it takes 1.5 hours.

If it were me, I'd stay in bed and set off after 7am... if the boss gave me a hard time when I was late I'd say they should lead by example... but I'm a dick and Mrs UK isn't :D


She regularly works with the director she is friendly with before official office hours start... I also said that next time he approaches her she should explain that she is in the office but not available for work because her boss said it doesn't count!

Great idea to put in an hour at a gym before work! That makes a lot more sense than sitting in traffic for an extra hour.

[shelivesthedream]

Poor Mrs UKMustache! My bad self suggests finding something else to do ostentatiously in the office from her arrival time until her official start time. Read a book, watch a film, practice a hobby... If questioned, smile sweetly and explain that since Boss said that work done during this time doesn't count, it doesn't make any sense for her to carry on doing it, does it?

My better self says to simply say "I am taking Friday 8th off as arranged" and see what happens. Odds on, absolutely nothing.

[BlueHouse]

I think hidden cameras happen a lot more than people realize.

I think they're fine as long as the employees know they exist. Secret cameras are a whole 'mother story. And no cameras in bathrooms, please.

I know someone who owns multiple donut stores. They're full of cameras, so he can check on them from anywhere with  his phone. IDK if the line staff knows about them, but I'm sure his managers do.

There's really almost no reason not to tell your employees that there are cameras.  It doesn't seem to matter.  People either forget or don't care and those who would, will STILL pull off bad or illegal behavior RIGHT IN FRONT of the cameras!  It's shocking! 

Even at work, where I know internet usage is monitored, here I am....

[sequoia]

I suspect my wife may deploy our FU money in the near future.

(...)

She approached the boss and offered (I think) a fair compromise
I start early in the morning so I will make sure to work the time in lieu before the 8th and take a half-day instead.

Boss refused, stating that my wife starts early anyway so it doesn't count.
Mrs UK does start over an hour early (to avoid traffic) so is contracted to 8 hours per day and works 9.5 hours... every single day.

This has really annoyed Mrs UK because:

• This boss turns up late most days, including today (the day after this argument)
• The boss appears to have decided that Mrs UK's voluntary (unpaid) overtime is the companies right
• Mrs UK often works over weekends and late into the evening to get things done, so now feels very under appreciated
• We now need to completely re-arrange our travel, my dad will need a day off to travel early instead (self-employed so won't get paid)

She is friendly with one of the directors and is going to raise the issue with him.  If the company don't sort it, they are probably going to lose her!

She has to stop working for free. Especially when it isn't even appriciated. Put in the 8 hours, not a second more. If you get no flexibility, you have to stop giving flexibility.

I have no problem being flexible at work, putting in 60 hour weeks when necessary, work late saturday and sunday nights to reach deadlines, etc. But every single of those hours get written down, and I will either receive OT for them, or take PTO. Usually, i end up with 7 weeks of summer holidays, and long weekends whenever it suits me.

If I want to work for free, I will volunteer at an NGO.

+1. Many jobs ago, I used to get to the office early to avoid traffic during my commute. My boss knows this, and he is fine for me leaving early (2-3 PM instead of 5PM). Our team worked with people in around the globe at that time, so it works well that I come in early, and my teammates come in later so we have broader coverage during the day.

9.5 hr everyday and not getting paid extra, bonus, PTO? That is crazy amount of time to work for free imo.

[GnomeErcy]

I suspect my wife may deploy our FU money in the near future.
She has a new boss and though Mrs UK often sees the best in people, she hates this person.

New bosses management style includes screaming at staff on a regular basis, reducing people to tears in meetings, blaming others for errors and stealing credit for accomplishments.

The latest issue is petty but incredibly annoying, it prompted Mrs UK to ask me if we will be okay if she quits... we will, by cutting some luxuries we can survive indefinitely on my salary!

Approaching Christmas her team (purchasing) are extremely busy and need to cover certain weekends (black Friday etc).

The rota was agreed 4 months ago, my wife would work Sunday 26th November in exchange for leave on Friday 8th December.  We are going on a family holiday for my mum's birthday and as Mrs UK and I had the 8th booked off, we agreed to drive down before everyone else and collect the keys for the cottage, put up some decorations etc.

On Friday 24th November (2 days before) IT issues crippled the online sales and an emergency 'queuing' system was put in place for the weekend.  This meant Sunday overtime was no longer required as sales were restricted.

As my wife couldn't work the Sunday, she hasn't got the available leave for the 8th December. 

She approached the boss and offered (I think) a fair compromise
I start early in the morning so I will make sure to work the time in lieu before the 8th and take a half-day instead.

Boss refused, stating that my wife starts early anyway so it doesn't count.
Mrs UK does start over an hour early (to avoid traffic) so is contracted to 8 hours per day and works 9.5 hours... every single day.

This has really annoyed Mrs UK because:

• This boss turns up late most days, including today (the day after this argument)
• The boss appears to have decided that Mrs UK's voluntary (unpaid) overtime is the companies right
• Mrs UK often works over weekends and late into the evening to get things done, so now feels very under appreciated
• We now need to completely re-arrange our travel, my dad will need a day off to travel early instead (self-employed so won't get paid)

She is friendly with one of the directors and is going to raise the issue with him.  If the company don't sort it, they are probably going to lose her!

TBH she should just leave anyway. My wife may do a similar thing.

She asked off in June for the 26th of December. It's the first time her family is out visiting from out of state since she moved a year and a half ago, and she's not taken off around the holidays in 6 years of working at her company.

I told her to just not show up. Worst that happens is they fire her - which is doubtful because her stuff is WAY too much of a shit show for anybody else to want to deal with. Even if they do, oh well.

[Luckyvik]

If I want to work for free, I will volunteer at an NGO.

Thanks for this, I’ve been doing free overtime also, must stop doing that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sibley]

OMG -- you are an internal auditor and she was asking for last minute changes?   RECIPE FOR DISASTER!!!!   No wonder you were stressed.  That kind of management style is bad in all circumstances, but lethal in that kind of an environment.

Ultimately the problem is above her, though.  I bet she was a great individual performer.   Just shouldn't have been promoted.

That is exactly why I don't want to move into management. I'm a great auditor. I would be a terrible audit manager. And yes, she was a very good individual performer.

I basically had a breakdown last night. I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn't care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn't. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone's reaction to my leaving, that they really didn't get it, and I couldn't process that contradiction (still can't really). I got 2 hours sleep last night, and spent the whole train ride in crying. I didn't go to work. I ended up texting a friend (different dept), and she came down for a bit and we talked. Mostly, she helped me calm down a bit. She helped me text in that I was taking the day off, and looked up the train schedule for me. I went home and went back to bed. The cats were very surprised, but happily napped with me.

After getting some sleep (still a mess, but at least I'm semi-functional now), I'm stuck with 2 basic facts. 1. I don't actually want to leave, and 2. even if they make the changes that I've been told they're planning and switched my manager, I don't think it would be enough to fix ME. Because this is NOT me, I don't do this. I am more important than any job, so I'm still leaving. Unfortunately, in my decidedly NOT rational state this morning, I did text my former manager some of this confusion, so now I need to have another chat with the director tomorrow.

Just goes to show how much a bad mgmt style can mess you up, and you may not even realize it.

[Bicycle_B]

OMG -- you are an internal auditor and she was asking for last minute changes?   

Holy CRAP.

I basically had a breakdown last night. I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn't care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn't. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone's reaction to my leaving, that they really didn't get it, and I couldn't process that contradiction (still can't really). I got 2 hours sleep last night, and spent the whole train ride in crying. I didn't go to work. I ended up texting a friend (different dept), and she came down for a bit and we talked. Mostly, she helped me calm down a bit. She helped me text in that I was taking the day off, and looked up the train schedule for me. I went home and went back to bed. The cats were very surprised, but happily napped with me.

After getting some sleep (still a mess, but at least I'm semi-functional now), I'm stuck with 2 basic facts. 1. I don't actually want to leave, and 2. even if they make the changes that I've been told they're planning and switched my manager, I don't think it would be enough to fix ME. Because this is NOT me, I don't do this. I am more important than any job, so I'm still leaving. Unfortunately, in my decidedly NOT rational state this morning, I did text my former manager some of this confusion, so now I need to have another chat with the director tomorrow.

Just goes to show how much a bad mgmt style can mess you up, and you may not even realize it.

Sounds very confusing!  Fwiw, in the midst of confusion, Executing the Plan is usually a good way to overcome the emotional turbulence.  If your plan is to leave, seems like the plan will get you out of a bad situation.

They can always up the ante later and ask for your return... after the bad supervisor is no longer in the job that caused the trouble, once management has become ready to accept more responsibility for their own decisions.  Fwiw, if you were to stay, it still seems like the effect would be to enable the situation to continue.  And you have a perfect cover:  "I already accepted an offer."  I hope you keep and enjoy your upcoming vacation and new job.  Keep getting sleep.  And hey, with all this stress, calling in sick is totally legit!

[former player]

Today in conversation with a friend I talked a bit about a situation I had 20 years ago with a bad manager, and realised just how badly it had affected me at the time when I found myself dropping the f bomb about 10 times in one minute.

You are right that you are not the problem, and you are right to move on.  When you have your chat with the director tomorrow, I would think about saying that you are only able to work out your notice if you no longer have to work to your current manager, and that if they are unable to agree to this you will be on sick leave.

[shelivesthedream]

I have a couple of freelance friends who have all worked for this guy we call Crazy [Name]. We call him that to remind ourselves never ever ever to work with him again. We've each been through it in turn and it seriously messes with you. Looking back, it's hard to imagine why we put up with him, but at the time we all got this weird tunnel vision about it. Keep leaving - your future self will thank you.

[Laura33]

I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn't care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn't. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone's reaction to my leaving, that they really didn't get it, and I couldn't process that contradiction (still can't really).

I am so sorry.  Please realize that this is not on you, this is completely on them.  I really doubt that it was at all personal; they were just checking in at a superficial level, like people do at work; they did *something*, so they ticked that box, and then went on to the next thing, and so when they didn't hear anything else, they assumed everything was fine.

The thing for you to realize is that this is also crappy management.  The fault here is not just with your immediate boss -- it is with every single other manager there who didn't bother to provide that boss with sufficient training or oversight, who focused on short-term band-aids instead of long-term solutions, and who managed passively and reactively (i.e., only in response to complaints) instead of proactively making sure the teams were properly staffed and supervised.

I am sure many of these same people like you very much as a person and respect you professionally.  They are just in a bad management structure and have never been trained on how to manage properly.  That is a problem that comes from the top, and so it is nothing that you could ever fix even if you stayed.

[Sibley]

I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn't care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn't. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone's reaction to my leaving, that they really didn't get it, and I couldn't process that contradiction (still can't really).

I am so sorry.  Please realize that this is not on you, this is completely on them.  I really doubt that it was at all personal; they were just checking in at a superficial level, like people do at work; they did *something*, so they ticked that box, and then went on to the next thing, and so when they didn't hear anything else, they assumed everything was fine.

The thing for you to realize is that this is also crappy management.  The fault here is not just with your immediate boss -- it is with every single other manager there who didn't bother to provide that boss with sufficient training or oversight, who focused on short-term band-aids instead of long-term solutions, and who managed passively and reactively (i.e., only in response to complaints) instead of proactively making sure the teams were properly staffed and supervised.

I am sure many of these same people like you very much as a person and respect you professionally.  They are just in a bad management structure and have never been trained on how to manage properly.  That is a problem that comes from the top, and so it is nothing that you could ever fix even if you stayed.

I know. However, I clearly hit a breaking point. I'm better today, back at work. I'm still emotionally fragile though, and I know it. I'm trying to be very careful to manage my stress load, make sure I eat and sleep enough, etc. One day at a time. This is very unlike me, I've never done anything like this before.

Edit: to be clear, I'm still leaving this job for the new one. I clearly need a change.

[Dicey]

Great update. Sending you lots of positive energy and hugs.

[Aegishjalmur]

Sibley,

Congrats on getting out. No job is worth that level of emotional and mental stress.

[MrMoogle]

It sounds like you could use more than a week between jobs.  You might want to explore those options.

[Sibley]

It sounds like you could use more than a week between jobs.  You might want to explore those options.

I'm thinking about it. Haven't decided.

[Daisy]

I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn't care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn't. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone's reaction to my leaving, that they really didn't get it, and I couldn't process that contradiction (still can't really).

I am so sorry.  Please realize that this is not on you, this is completely on them.  I really doubt that it was at all personal; they were just checking in at a superficial level, like people do at work; they did *something*, so they ticked that box, and then went on to the next thing, and so when they didn't hear anything else, they assumed everything was fine.

The thing for you to realize is that this is also crappy management.  The fault here is not just with your immediate boss -- it is with every single other manager there who didn't bother to provide that boss with sufficient training or oversight, who focused on short-term band-aids instead of long-term solutions, and who managed passively and reactively (i.e., only in response to complaints) instead of proactively making sure the teams were properly staffed and supervised.

I am sure many of these same people like you very much as a person and respect you professionally.  They are just in a bad management structure and have never been trained on how to manage properly.  That is a problem that comes from the top, and so it is nothing that you could ever fix even if you stayed.

I know. However, I clearly hit a breaking point. I'm better today, back at work. I'm still emotionally fragile though, and I know it. I'm trying to be very careful to manage my stress load, make sure I eat and sleep enough, etc. One day at a time. This is very unlike me, I've never done anything like this before.

Edit: to be clear, I'm still leaving this job for the new one. I clearly need a change.

Yep, agree with Laura33.

When I initially went to HR, they did have a talk with my managers and the tension reduced.

However, when I went to HR the second time, HR person said "but we had a talk with them to tame down the rhetoric". I said yes, they have been nicer to me...but in the sense that now they were barely talking with me, just politely smiling at me in the hallway. So the nasty managers' response was to just avoid me. Maybe they were worried they would screw up again by talking with me and were protecting themselves.

Also, the HR person tried to institute some seminars on improving the work environment, but none of the managers in my department attended. It was only individual contributors that attended. It was a voluntary seminar. I brought this up to the HR person during the second talk, to point out that my management really had no interest in changing. Others had noticed too that no managers went.

I am so happy to be gone.