Author Topic: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?  (Read 19254 times)

BlueHouse

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2014, 06:17:30 PM »
I have two tween kids who seem to think that they are entitled to things and gifts and whatnot. 

The question is, how do I deal with this going forward?  I have no intention to be keeping up with their friends, but I also feel like I basically threw money in the garbage buying these presents for the older one. 

Figuring it out, I will add my .02.  Just by virtue of the fact that you ask this question and recognize the issue of entitlement in kids, tells me that you are doing things right!  The items on their list shows that they know what they like, they understand what kind of gifts are acceptable in their circumstances, and they seem like kids I'd like my child-relatives to be like. 

They are tweens -- they will see conspicuous consumption in their schoolmates and they will envy some of it.  Just keep doing what you're doing and reinforcing your principles and they'll get through it stronger than their friends and be more resilient for it.  It's really hard to see a bit of disappointment in your kids' faces and not want to act differently, but you are doing the right thing.  Be strong, know that you are acting in their best interest as well as the best interest of the family unit.  You may not believe it for many years, but you will eventually get a thanks out of it. 


 

SwordGuy

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2014, 10:44:55 PM »
I guess I have a slightly different take.  Is this a common complaint from your kids?  Do they often whine about not being able to have ALL THE THINGS, and get aggro with you for not giving them whatever they want?  If so, then yes, some of the harder lifestyle changes and perspective-gathering things might work.  And I'd include them in more of the budgeting decisions, as you have started to do.  Maybe give them a "clothes and spending allowance" each month, and ALL of their clothes and personal spending needs to come out of that.  It's a more long-term goal of helping them see the value of money and the spending decisions that need to be made.

But in real life, take the gifts away or not buying them anything one year isn't actually going to make them suddenly go "gee Mum, you were right!  I am now super grateful for the gifts I got last year!"  They'll just be reinforced in their view that you are a mean and stingy woman and they NEVER get ANYTHING. 

I'd take the long view - this is children we're talking about, not adults whom we can expect to know and behave better, or keep it to themselves if they aren't happy.  Especially if they are generally reasonable and understand about money, I'd just chalk it up to actual, real disappointment and envy - not because they really genuinely expected to get everything, but because some other kids are crazy spoiled, and it's hard not to compare. 

There are many threads here and in other frugal forums filled with adults saying "but I WANT it, and I'm jealous of my sister and brother and law having it so easy!" or "Help me!  I feel really envious and I'm sick of having to slog it out on a low income.  It's not faaaaair".  These are real emotions, and they're fine.

Your emotions around this are ok, too.  YOU'RE also disappointed that you didn't get the holiday/giving experience you were hoping for.  But just like your kids are learning, sometimes the event really doesn't live up to the expectation and anticipation, and that's just part of life.

So it is fine for you to be able to say "hey, kids, I know you're disappointed that we didn't buy you everything on the whole list, and electronics as well.  In a perfect world, we'd never feel that sort of disappointment, and I'm sorry you're feeling envious of your friends.  We know you're both sensible and really do understand that the lists don't work like that, and why we didn't buy the latest gadgets etc.  Can you understand that I'm a bit disappointed that the effort I went to to get you gifts that you did want wasn't even given a thank you?  I feel hurt that, because you're focusing on all the gifts you didn't get, you've basically ignored the gifts we did give you?"

And just see what happens.  You're most likely to get eye rolls or "mumble mumble mumble" rather than gushing gratitude, but parenting is all about the long game.

Good luck.  You may not see the fruit of the long game until they're in their 20s.  One day of being a sulky kid doesn't mean they're doomed to being narcissistic ingrates for the rest of their lives :)

(P.S I cross posted with Marty998 - +1 to what he said)

Bravo!  You completely convinced me.

Dee18

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #52 on: December 29, 2014, 05:48:03 AM »

Do not take anything back.  A gift us a gift.  While we hope the recipient appreciates the gift, a gift given to get a certain response is a bribe. But Do explain to the tweens how their attitude makes you reluctant to spend your hard earned money on future gifts for them.  One rule my mom had when we were kids: after Christmas Day, we could not use a gift until we had written the thank you note for it.  After New Year's Day, we could not go anywhere if our thank yous were not written.

Think about what you want the rules to be as you go forward.  When my daughter was a tween, I decided I absolutely would not buy her a cell phone or pay for her cell phone service.  At the time (6 years ago) cell phones seemed to be at the center of a lot of tween problems.  So she earned money and eventually bought herself a cell phone and service.  This past year, at 17, she decided an iPhone was worth all the hours it took her to earn it.  At the same time, I gave her gifts I thought she would like and occasionally reminded her that we travel a lot, using our money for that instead of things. This Christmas, she gave me the most amazing gifts. Your Tweens also, as others have said, will outgrow that self-centeredness.  Oh, I also suggest deciding on your rules early and telling your kids years ahead....especially if you are not going to buy them a car. 

Workinghard

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #53 on: December 29, 2014, 06:29:40 AM »
Just to add a few more thoughts…A sense of entitlement has nothing to do with the amount spent but how children are raised. Like Dee18 says, you have to start years in advance. Even two and three-year-old children can learn to give.

From the time our son was five years old, he would give away presents, many of them new. In some ways it was hard, but we decided that we had given him the present to do with as he wanted. We did not want to quench his generosity or him thinking about others. He learned to do it anonymously so that it was truly giving from his heart not to receive recognition or praise. We also didn't want him to get in the habit of giving gifts to others in return for friendship.

And I respectfully disagree about kids, any kids, outgrowing being self-centered or entitled.  Look at the adults around you. I truly think that the behavior has to be taught and instilled in children. It's never too late though if approached from a different perspective. As our kid was growing up, and I realized things we had done wrong or things that needed to be changed, we would talk about it. It wasn't a situation of him against us. We approached it from the perspective that we realize we had been doing this wrong, and that we wanted to change. We changed as a family versus him needing to change his behavior. I learned a long time ago it was all about my approach.

Even now as a young adult he will still ask my advice knowing that I may disagree with him. He recently asked my opinion on purchasing a pet. There is no way I would spend money for a pet and he knows that. However, he also knows that I can give him the pros and cons and not be judgemental. I will accept  his decision and support him even though I may not agree with him, or it may be not be something I would do. Through the years he would say that he could always count on me to be honest even if he didn't like my answer. Lol.

FiguringItOut

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #54 on: December 29, 2014, 09:15:19 AM »
I keep coming back and rereading all of these responses.  I agree with so many of you and I do realize that there are things that I should've done better in terms of managing kids expectations and their overall outlook on material things.  I don't have anything to add right now, just wanted to let you all know how incredibly helpful this post has been to me.

Thank you all!

oldmannickels

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #55 on: December 29, 2014, 09:35:56 AM »
I had a friend get an iphone 6, ipad2, noise canceling headphones, and video games for the PS4.....except they are 29. Their comment... I didn't even ask for the headphones!!!

Apples

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #56 on: December 29, 2014, 09:37:00 AM »
I'm in my early 20's now, but pretty vividly remember my middle and high school years, and have several younger siblings so have watched my parents deal with someone "that age"' while I was more mature, even if only a little more mature.  We had friends of a lower income level (and higher, or at least spendier) which made it easier for our social group to show us that we should be grateful for what we get. So I think my parents had it a little easier.

Basically, you're fighting a losing battle for the next 6 years or so, until they graduate high school.  Play the long game.  My siblings and I whined and complained b/c we weren't allowed to have cell phones until high school (and then no smart phone until college even, and that was just 5 years ago).  We also weren't allowed to have a facebook profile, or MySpace if you know what that is.  My mom got very good at managing expectations-my parents did the "one big gift/lots of small gifts" thing; we were flat out told if we asked for something too expensive for them  to get us as a gift.  The conversation wasn't framed as "we can't afford it/not in the budget", but instead as "this is not a reasonable thing to give as a Christmas gift, maybe xmas and bday gift, or if you want money to help save towards it, but we think this is unreasonable".  Then if little Johnny's parents got him one, we would say "but they got him one!" and my parents could say that's great for them, people can make their own choices, but we're choosing to not give you one.  This, of course, generally works better with a 17 year old than a 12 year old, but the concept works.

And I remember middle school and early high school.  Unless your kid gets all trendy clothes, an iPhone, and something else awesome and electronic, they are not the coolest kid.  Which, when you're comparing with friends online and at school the next few weeks, totally sucks.  It sucks b/c you're not as rich/cool/generally awesome as those other kids.  However, 90% of kids are not the coolest kids anyway, Christmas just shows the disparity extra well.  Managing your daughter's expectations for gifts beforehand might help her build up a buffer against disappointment later, as she opens the gifts and tells others what she got.  You may also want to mention that you're also saving for college (if you are, I don't remember off the top of my head), remember that good vacaction we went on, etc.  Again, it won't help from 12-14 or so (if my memory serves, we were basically all brats at that point as we learned to compare ourselves to others and realized our parents really don't get it, yet we don't fully understand money yet either), but in later h.s. seeing the cool kids worry about going to a college they could afford and applying desperately for scholarships so they didn't need as much in loans, it really came full circle.

Short version:  that age sucks anyway, manage expectations, play the long game, mention college/other savings, it WILL come around in a few years :)

FiguringItOut

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2014, 09:44:35 AM »
I had a friend get an iphone 6, ipad2, noise canceling headphones, and video games for the PS4.....except they are 29. Their comment... I didn't even ask for the headphones!!!

Oy vey!

Skyhigh

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2014, 10:05:46 AM »


We discontinued TV service a few years ago. An unexpected result is that our kids do not seem to know what they should want since there is no regular commercial message being thrust upon them.

Workinghard

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2014, 10:23:32 AM »
I have been going through some journals that I wrote when our kid was growing up in preparation to pass them on to his future wife. One entry was when he was 16 years old. He commented about a trip where he had helping underprivileged children. He shared about it being incredibly sad seeing a 10-year-old having a baby bothered by her dad, a meth lab next door, kids living in homes with dirt floors or cardboard floors, or if they were lucky plywood floors. He mentioned that there was no running water or electricity and about a young boy who had a padlock for a babysitter. He said the living conditions were similar to the ones he saw in El Salvador but this was essentially in his backyard--about two hours away. Those are the kind of experiences that help a child, regardless of their age, appreciate how blessed they are.

SunshineGirl

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2014, 10:37:28 AM »
Just start saying "no" . . . a lot.  This works best if you are not buying a bunch of frivolous stuff for adults either.  It does take awhile to work, because your daughter is suffering from a serious case of relative deprivation (explained best by Malcolm Gladwell in his interesting book David and Goliath.)

And make sure your kids have friends from very diverse income levels. Somehow middle class society seems to frown on this, and that leads to the problem because middle class and certainly most rich people are going to buy their kids a lot of the latest trendy useless crap.  Cue a bad case of relative deprivation.  Whole exclusionary neighborhoods are founded upon the "good schools" idea, which in reality usually means no poor kids.  My son is quite used to hearing no, and he's always gone to a diverse school, which is good, but his eyes were really opened up over the past couple of years by playing on a AAU basketball team with kids from much more modest circumstances.  It makes it pretty easy to point out that even having a pet is quite a luxury when your kids have some good friends who have never been inside a pet store in their entire lives.  Just an example.

Also, try to surround them every day with the idea that they have enough.  Who has got it great today?  WE DO!

I agree wholeheartedly about making sure your kids know and hang out with diverse economic groups. I went to a "rich kid" high school and was probably in the poorest 10%, and naturally, I noticed all the things my peers had that I did not. I didn't complain out loud because I knew my family was what it was, but I noticed and sometimes felt "less-than." But it is what it is. I'd tell your kids to keep it to themselves and be grateful for what they have.

Kids these days do feel entitled; it's not just yours. All you can do is live by example and expose them to all income levels and make your home a refuge for them - calm, welcoming, a place they want to be. That'll mean more than anything in the long run. Maybe next year, tell them the budget and let them pick/buy their own gifts.

I had this one babysitter for my kids once who told me that her parents put $50 in her checking account automatically at the start of every month and that was all she got, ever. From that and whatever she earned, she had to buy everything for herself (plus she got holiday gifts). She told me how she often went out with her group of friends to restaurants and could only order an appetizer or dessert, while her friends got full meals, but that her parents were trying to teach her about choices. Well, this kid was a GREAT kid, really down to earth, and I decided to do the same thing with my kids. It's been fantastic. They never ask for things anymore. (I do pay their Ting cell phone bill, too.) It's enough for them to "subsist," but then they have to earn more for splurges and make good choices constantly. They really start to learn the value of money and really start to appreciate extras as gifts at holidays.

Mr.Chipper77

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #61 on: December 29, 2014, 10:47:37 AM »
It seems to me know matter what we buy our 4 kids while they are grateful its just a matter of time we here what the "jones" kids got so we have become immune to that.  We hang up 4 sheets of paper on the wall/cabinet along side of the fridge off the main hallway months before x-mas and I have two titles one on the top that says wish list and one half way down that say realization list. Over the course of the time say 3 months the list changes we have to replace it a few times but they become pretty certain in what they want knowing there expectations better be realistic and there are going to be much needed clothes and other items mixed in. Has become tolerable and seems to work.

FiguringItOut

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #62 on: December 29, 2014, 10:52:14 AM »
It seems to me know matter what we buy our 4 kids while they are grateful its just a matter of time we here what the "jones" kids got so we have become immune to that.  We hang up 4 sheets of paper on the wall/cabinet along side of the fridge off the main hallway months before x-mas and I have two titles one on the top that says wish list and one half way down that say realization list. Over the course of the time say 3 months the list changes we have to replace it a few times but they become pretty certain in what they want knowing there expectations better be realistic and there are going to be much needed clothes and other items mixed in. Has become tolerable and seems to work.

Mr. Chipper, can you please elaborate on this - who adds things to the with list and realization list?  You or kids?  Who moves them from one list to the other?  Who removes them?  Thank you

Joshin

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2014, 11:43:29 AM »
A bit late to the game, but another key to the entitlement puzzle I have found is to encourage gift giving. Granted, we've done this since the kids were old enough to fingerpaint. Even as toddlers, we would hype up "gift making day," where they would do little craft projects to give to grandma and grandpa. By the time they had a bit of money, they would carefully budget to buy and make gifts. We never supplied the money for gifts. No cash, you have to get creative! Now at 14, my eldest has a "gift box," he shops garage sales, thrift, and sales and keeps a box in his closet for gift giving. I just found out he did this a few weeks ago :) Somehow, giving seems to make them more appreciative of getting, because they understand the budgeting, effort and thought that goes into the whole process.

The other thing is to keep an eye out for those peer pressure things! Make them a big deal, a coming of age thing. For example, we knew the phone would be an issue, so we hyped it up as a big deal that you get on your 13th birthday -- along with a small raise in allowance to help you pay your own phone bill ;). The kid couldn't wait to open that small box. He got a smart phone, because we had an old android that was suitable for Ting laying around. The other part of the deal is mom and dad give you your first phone, and then you're on your own. He kind of wants a new phone now, so he's setting aside money but not planning to upgrade until this one gives up the ghost completely.

MrsPete

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2014, 01:05:15 PM »
Tweens are the hardest.  My kids both tried to be "bad kids" in middle school, but we were tough on them, and I can count on one hand the real issues with had between both of them in high school. 

As for holiday presents and gratitude, this is a tough one.  You have to walk a fine line.  On the one hand, you want to promote frugal values and thoughtful spending; on the other hand -- though this may be a minority opinion around here -- the occasional, well-planned splurge is great.  Personally, I do think you low-balled it a bit for the holidays.  I'm totally a book girl, but books and stuffed animals as the main present . . . well, those aren't things that're going to thrill teens. 

You might avoid this situation next year by giving them some guidance before they're allowed to make holiday requests:  Tell them, perhaps, our budget is X.  Or, we're probably going to get you one large gift and two small gifts.  Or, we're going to plan a simple Christmas -- no batteries, nothing that didn't exist before 1970.

I have a 17 and a 20 year old, and I teach high schoolers.  The poster who wrote the humorous post about "they may say they want books, but they really want cell phones" is on track.  NO other item means as much to teens (and likely tweens) as a cell phone.  It is genuinely the center of their world.  It is how they communicate with friends, and it's fast becoming how they communicate with teachers and coaches at school.  NOT to have a cell phone is very much to be left out of the social world -- and it's not just about status.  Both of my daughters (one high school, one college) receive school notifications through their cell phones.  Both use their cell phones for school work -- looking up definitions, scanning ISBNs to create Bibliographies, accessing school-related content.  One receives her work schedule through her cell phone.  This is trend that's only going to grow.  This year when I passed out my class info sheets, I found that out of 91 students, only TWO don't have smart phones (not just cell phones, but smart phones); admittedly, these are high school seniors, not tweens.  While I'm frugal, it's genuinely tough to be one of only two kids who don't have "the thing".

When my girls have want-want-want-want-wanted something for an extended period of time -- and I'm not talking about impulse buys or fleeting whims, but things that they really want, even if they're expensive -- I've tried to give them those things as Christmas or birthday presents.  OR I've provided a way for them to earn those things.  OR I've let them know when/under what circumstances I'd say yes to that item. 

Two examples:  Our youngest is a high school senior, and her big Christmas present was a laptop -- something she's wanted for a while, and also something she'll need for college next fall.  We told her ahead of time that she'd be getting fewer presents this year because one was "rather large".  We also told our oldest that her sister would be getting mostly one big thing, while she'd be getting a number of moderately-priced items (because she wanted mostly kitchen items for her rather skimpy apartment).  Telling the kids things like this ahead of time helps avoid "morning-of disappointments"; in our case, neither girl was surprised or disappointed with the disparity in this year's gifts, especially because we did the same for the older daughter when she was a high school senior.

Second example:  Our oldest really, really wanted a car to take to college.  We explained to her that it simply wasn't necessary, and we would not allow her to take the old hand-me-down car that she drives around town to college.  We explained the massive cost of parking a car on campus, and we explained that it simply wasn't necessary.  We promised that when she was a junior and began student nursing, which would mean that a car really was neceessary, we would make arrangements for her to have a car.  She pouted a bit over it, especially because her roommate DID have a car, but after a few months in college she realized that she really didn't need a car on campus, and her roommate only used hers to come home on weekends.   

I totally agree with the poster who says dont' threaten to take back presents or give nothing next year.  As he or she said, that just reinforces in the Tween's mind that you're a grouch who doesn't understand what it's like to be young today, etc., etc., etc.  To expand upon that thought, since your kids have essentially said that Christmas is cool and Hanukkah stinks, you don't want them to adopt a Judaism-is-second-best attitude.  Things didn't go quite as well as you wished this year -- do nothing.  This one's shot, but you get another chance next year.  Trying to talk about it now will only frustrate everyone involved.



Having said that, I can say that my two are genuinely grateful for what they have, and I can tell you some of the things we did to engender this attitude: 

- From the time they were small, we've always "bought used".  They genuinely do not differentiate between new and gently-used items.  They see "buying used" as a smart choice and a way to stretch our resources. 

- We've held them responsible for maintaining their items.  For example, when our oldest began wearing eye glasses, she broke two pair (both through carelessness) in one year.  We couldn't very well refuse her eye glasses, so we replaced them immediately, and we assigned her work around the house "to pay for the glasses".  She was not allowed computer time until the glasses were paid for. 

- We set our own standards for what we allowed /didn't allow, and our standards were a bit more strict than those of their friends' parents.  Both girls, for example, wanted TVs for their bedrooms, and we had decided that wasn't something we were going to allow.  One Christmas, mistakenly thinking that it was a money thing, they asked Grandaddy for TVs.  Fortunately, he spoke to us about it, and we reached a compromise:  He bought a 12" square TV that could be run from the cigarette lighter in our van OR plugged into a house outlet.  It spent most of its time on the upper shelf of our bathroom linen closet, but we used it for long drives, and we allowed the kids to have it in their rooms when they were sick /stuck in bed or when they had sleepovers.  It was a good compromise, and they used that thing for years.  I think my husband took it to work last year to watch March madness in the office. 

Larger point:  Once your kids are Tweens, never just say NO to something.  Explain WHY that's the choice you're making.  If you don't explain, they often jump to wrong conclusions:  We don't have the money, my parents are just mean, they don't understand me, etc.  We OFTEN said, "That's really cool that your friend has _____, but that's not the way we've chosen to spend our money in this family."  We often pointed out that we travel MUCH more often than any of their friends, we're very quick to pay for summer camp or other educational experiences, and we were -- when our kids were Tweens -- saving for college.  We tried to help them understand that they wouldn't be taking out loans for college, and that took a long time for them to understand -- my oldest really got it when she was a senior, and MOST of her friends began worrying about money, but we said, "Don't worry -- as long as you choose a state school, we can write checks, and you will graduate with a clean financial slate".  Today, as a college junior, she REALLY gets it, and she is ninja-level frugal.  Recently she texted me to say that canned pumpkin (a moderately expensive item) was less than $1 at a certain grocery store, and she'd LOVE to have 52 cans -- one for every week of the year so she could experiment with pumpkin muffins, cookies, pancakes.  I didn't get her 52 cans, but I did wrap up 10 cans under the tree. 

- We provided opportunities for our kids to practice budgeting.  For example, from a young age we gave them X amount of money to buy their school supplies.  We'd always give them enough money to buy a few splurges, but not enough to have the fancy pencils PLUS the Sponge-Bob notebook.  They always had to choose.  Later we began giving them a back-to-school clothing budget.  Having girls, we also instituted a "dance budget"; that is, we said we'd pay X amount for dress-shoes-tickets-everything for a small dance (like Homecoming or Winter Semi-formal) and XX for prom.  When my youngest pulled me over to a clearance rack and said, "Mom, I know that no dances are coming up soon, but this B&W dress is fantastic, and it's only $15 -- could I go ahead and get it and count it against a future dance budget?"  I knew I'd been successful in teaching her long-term planning skills. 

- We didn't "save our kids" when they screwed up with money.  For example, if they were short on money and couldn't go out with friends, we never slipped them a $20.  Rather, we said, "It's tough to be without some cash", and usually they'd come up with an option -- like inviting everyone over to watch a movie at our house. 

- I helped both girls open a checking account (and a debit card) the summer before their senior years, and I am still monitoring my youngest's usage.  I don't want my girls to be the ones who go away to college and bounce checks or run through their entire summer job savings in the first two months.  At the beginning of senior year, I started to give each one $50 every month (which works out nicely because I am paid once a month), and that must cover EVERYTHING they do outside the house.  For my girls, that's enough to allow them a few treats -- but not enough to run big-time with the spendy crowd. 

- When their friends get something expensive, and they're a bit jealous -- and that's going to happen even to kids who KNOW they have it good -- I acknowledge, "Hey, that's really nice.  I'm sure she's going to enjoy it."  But unless they push the conversation farther, I don't harp on the, "But we're not going to do that in our family."  In my family growing up, ANY acknowledgement that expensive things are nice to have, ANY request for a luxury item was always met with criticism:  "Aren't you ashamed of yourself for wanting ____?  That's a foolish waste of money!"  We were genuinely belittled for wanting things, and it wasn't a healthy attitude. 

- As many other posters have said, our girls have had LOTS of experience with community service -- through scouts, through church, through school clubs, and through family activities.  They're very aware that most people in the community have less than we do (even though we do not live in a fancy house or drive fancy cars).  Once or twice they've been aware -- because I'm a teacher, and because they've been privy to after-school conversations that aren't necessarily available to all ears -- of a student whose family is in great need.  Both of my girls have made comments to me privately, "How can ___'s family be in trouble?  I mean, he dresses nicely and has his own car!"  Or, you mean ____'s family is in financial trouble?  I know he just got a new iphone last week -- why would they do that if they're in trouble?"  It's been an opportunity for me to talk about how appearances aren't always reality.  They did have trouble with that at first because it's not what you expect. 

- My final thought:  We set an example of frugal living.  We didn't give each other expensive stereo equipment, while expecting the girls to be happy with a Little House on the Prairie stocking.  Not that I think you're doing this, but I have observed it occasionally in some families. 
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 01:13:29 PM by MrsPete »

Neustache

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2014, 01:23:28 PM »
I guess I have a slightly different take.  Is this a common complaint from your kids?  Do they often whine about not being able to have ALL THE THINGS, and get aggro with you for not giving them whatever they want?  If so, then yes, some of the harder lifestyle changes and perspective-gathering things might work.  And I'd include them in more of the budgeting decisions, as you have started to do.  Maybe give them a "clothes and spending allowance" each month, and ALL of their clothes and personal spending needs to come out of that.  It's a more long-term goal of helping them see the value of money and the spending decisions that need to be made.

But in real life, take the gifts away or not buying them anything one year isn't actually going to make them suddenly go "gee Mum, you were right!  I am now super grateful for the gifts I got last year!"  They'll just be reinforced in their view that you are a mean and stingy woman and they NEVER get ANYTHING. 

I'd take the long view - this is children we're talking about, not adults whom we can expect to know and behave better, or keep it to themselves if they aren't happy.  Especially if they are generally reasonable and understand about money, I'd just chalk it up to actual, real disappointment and envy - not because they really genuinely expected to get everything, but because some other kids are crazy spoiled, and it's hard not to compare. 

There are many threads here and in other frugal forums filled with adults saying "but I WANT it, and I'm jealous of my sister and brother and law having it so easy!" or "Help me!  I feel really envious and I'm sick of having to slog it out on a low income.  It's not faaaaair".  These are real emotions, and they're fine.

Your emotions around this are ok, too.  YOU'RE also disappointed that you didn't get the holiday/giving experience you were hoping for.  But just like your kids are learning, sometimes the event really doesn't live up to the expectation and anticipation, and that's just part of life.

So it is fine for you to be able to say "hey, kids, I know you're disappointed that we didn't buy you everything on the whole list, and electronics as well.  In a perfect world, we'd never feel that sort of disappointment, and I'm sorry you're feeling envious of your friends.  We know you're both sensible and really do understand that the lists don't work like that, and why we didn't buy the latest gadgets etc.  Can you understand that I'm a bit disappointed that the effort I went to to get you gifts that you did want wasn't even given a thank you?  I feel hurt that, because you're focusing on all the gifts you didn't get, you've basically ignored the gifts we did give you?"

And just see what happens.  You're most likely to get eye rolls or "mumble mumble mumble" rather than gushing gratitude, but parenting is all about the long game.

Good luck.  You may not see the fruit of the long game until they're in their 20s.  One day of being a sulky kid doesn't mean they're doomed to being narcissistic ingrates for the rest of their lives :)

(P.S I cross posted with Marty998 - +1 to what he said)


I love this!!!  I needed to read this. 

annegables

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2014, 03:52:51 PM »
Someone mentioned upthread about giving 12+yo kids $x/month as their everything money.  My parents did this for me and my siblings back in the 90s and it worked great.  we got $50/month and that funded just about everything, except for food eaten with the family and utilities.  I had to buy my own sports shoes, shampoo, tampons, clothes, prom, you name it.  On top of this, I also had a job and was expected to do very well in school. I loved several things about this approach.  first, it helped all of us learn how to budget.  Second, it allowed for some of that separation from one's parents that teens so desire.  It is very freeing to not have to ask one's parents for cash for stuff.  And it is really freeing as a 14yo to finally be able to choose one's shampoo etc.  I felt so grown up. 

MrsPete

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2014, 03:57:04 PM »
Someone mentioned upthread about giving 12+yo kids $x/month as their everything money.  My parents did this for me and my siblings back in the 90s and it worked great.  we got $50/month and that funded just about everything, except for food eaten with the family and utilities.  I had to buy my own sports shoes, shampoo, tampons, clothes, prom, you name it.  On top of this, I also had a job and was expected to do very well in school. I loved several things about this approach.  first, it helped all of us learn how to budget.  Second, it allowed for some of that separation from one's parents that teens so desire.  It is very freeing to not have to ask one's parents for cash for stuff.  And it is really freeing as a 14yo to finally be able to choose one's shampoo etc.  I felt so grown up.
Yes, I give $50/month . . . plus bonuses at special occasions.  For example, I give them X amount for back-to-school, and we figure up together how many pairs of jeans that must cover, and whether a new coat is a necessity -- and don't tell me two months later that you didn't buy any socks!  And I give X amount for a school dance.  X amount for summer clothes.  I'm not particularly consistant in what I give -- it depends upon how much they already have. 

homehandymum

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #68 on: December 29, 2014, 08:50:59 PM »
Mrs Pete:  That was the best post ever, and I'm going to save it somewhere to re-read again.
Thanks!

Neustache

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2014, 05:38:55 AM »
I agree!  Hadn't read that one yet when I commented on the other post, but Mrs. Pete, that was great! 


SunshineGirl

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2014, 08:05:41 AM »
Gosh, MrsPete - you're awesome! Great post, and thanks for taking the time to write it. You've inspired me.

MrsPete

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2014, 04:06:48 PM »
Thanks, y'all!  I'm glad you found my post productive.  I can't say I've done everything right in my life, but my husband and I REALLY HAVE managed to raise two kids who've got an excellent handle on all things financial.  They really have a good handle on the value of a dollar and appreciate what they're given.

MandalayVA

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #72 on: December 31, 2014, 12:08:47 AM »
I have a sister who is an adult (30+) and just as bad. Everything is the wrong color or something...I have more than once returned her gift by she was unappreciative and made me mad. Meanwhile, she complains about her gift and I don't think has ever gotten me anything.

One of my SILs literally threw a screaming, red-faced tantrum a few years ago at Christmas because the engraving on her iPad was wrong.  She was in her late forties at the time.  That's also when Mr. Mandalay and I stopped going to his family's for Christmas.

Good on all of you trying to raise financially responsible kids!

soccerluvof4

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Re: Entitlement in kids and how to deal with it?
« Reply #73 on: December 31, 2014, 04:10:11 AM »
It seems to me know matter what we buy our 4 kids while they are grateful its just a matter of time we here what the "jones" kids got so we have become immune to that.  We hang up 4 sheets of paper on the wall/cabinet along side of the fridge off the main hallway months before x-mas and I have two titles one on the top that says wish list and one half way down that say realization list. Over the course of the time say 3 months the list changes we have to replace it a few times but they become pretty certain in what they want knowing there expectations better be realistic and there are going to be much needed clothes and other items mixed in. Has become tolerable and seems to work.









 Using the same principle we have the kids do everything. They know how we feel from electronics to pretty much everything but they also know they will get one pretty nice gift then things we feel are still obviously nice but needed like clothes etc... It just gives them time to really think about what they want, change there mind as they see it and some years we have been presently surprised by what might be there most important gift.

Mr. Chipper, can you please elaborate on this - who adds things to the with list and realization list?  You or kids?  Who moves them from one list to the other?  Who removes them?  Thank you
« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 04:12:40 AM by soccerluvof4 »