Emotionally Sustainable Mustachianism

[bonbonbaron]

Lately I've noticed myself pulling back from the hardcore Mustachian lifestyle. When the stay-at-home orders lifted in metro Detroit, at first, spending $30 on gas felt wasteful. I continued going to work by bike as I'd done before. But then over time, I got used to driving again. And actually, the thought of riding a bike on the 5.5 mile trail to work felt like unnecessary, self-hating punishment. Why ride for 30 minutes when I could arrive in 10 minutes by car?

I noticed the same thing across the board: When I went gung-ho with saving every dime I could on groceries, I was eating like shit (canned foods, minimal snacks, same meal every stinking day, and no enjoyment whatsoever). It became punishment! While the weekly bike trips to Aldi brought my grocery receipts to around $18, I felt deprived. Being the emotional creatures we are, we steer away from things that feel bad... whether or not they're technically the correct things to do. And that's what I did: I shunned optimization for ABUNDANCE and pleasure. Not stupidly high grocery bills, but above the threshold of satisfaction.

So I thought I'd reach out and see if any of you had ever experienced something like this before. Did you at one point go too extreme in Mustachianism? If so, how did you tweak your lifestyle to achieve the best of both worlds?

[ixtap]

Lately I've noticed myself pulling back from the hardcore Mustachian lifestyle. When the stay-at-home orders lifted in metro Detroit, at first, spending $30 on gas felt wasteful. I continued going to work by bike as I'd done before. But then over time, I got used to driving again. And actually, the thought of riding a bike on the 5.5 mile trail to work felt like unnecessary, self-hating punishment. Why ride for 30 minutes when I could arrive in 10 minutes by car?

I noticed the same thing across the board: When I went gung-ho with saving every dime I could on groceries, I was eating like shit (canned foods, minimal snacks, same meal every stinking day, and no enjoyment whatsoever). It became punishment! While the weekly bike trips to Aldi brought my grocery receipts to around $18, I felt deprived. Being the emotional creatures we are, we steer away from things that feel bad... whether or not they're technically the correct things to do. And that's what I did: I shunned optimization for ABUNDANCE and pleasure. Not stupidly high grocery bills, but above the threshold of satisfaction.

So I thought I'd reach out and see if any of you had ever experienced something like this before. Did you at one point go too extreme in Mustachianism? If so, how did you tweak your lifestyle to achieve the best of both worlds?

You didn't shun optimization, you finally found it. By definition, optimizing isn't "how low can you go?" Unhealthy eating has nothing whatsoever to do with optimization.

May I ask why you don't like riding your bike to work? I can see it in weather extremes, but 5 miles on a trail twice a day sounds much better than the traffic, to me. Maybe that is just because the last time I had the choice, it was between traffic and traffic. I still preferred the bike most days, but I love riding my bike.

[lhamo]

You have to decide what you are optimizing for. 

In the case of your commute, maybe you have reasons to optimize for time over cost/environmental impact/health.  A 5.5 mile 30 minute bike trail commute sounds pretty ideal to me -- can you explain why you find the car preferable? 

In the case of your diet/grocery spending, the cheap crappy diet is definitely not optimal in terms of longer-term health, both mental and physical.  Spending $50/week on a more balanced, healthy diet with lots of fresh fruits and vegetables and healthy proteins is well worth the extra money in my book.

[OtherJen]

Lately I've noticed myself pulling back from the hardcore Mustachian lifestyle. When the stay-at-home orders lifted in metro Detroit, at first, spending $30 on gas felt wasteful. I continued going to work by bike as I'd done before. But then over time, I got used to driving again. And actually, the thought of riding a bike on the 5.5 mile trail to work felt like unnecessary, self-hating punishment. Why ride for 30 minutes when I could arrive in 10 minutes by car?

I noticed the same thing across the board: When I went gung-ho with saving every dime I could on groceries, I was eating like shit (canned foods, minimal snacks, same meal every stinking day, and no enjoyment whatsoever). It became punishment! While the weekly bike trips to Aldi brought my grocery receipts to around $18, I felt deprived. Being the emotional creatures we are, we steer away from things that feel bad... whether or not they're technically the correct things to do. And that's what I did: I shunned optimization for ABUNDANCE and pleasure. Not stupidly high grocery bills, but above the threshold of satisfaction.

So I thought I'd reach out and see if any of you had ever experienced something like this before. Did you at one point go too extreme in Mustachianism? If so, how did you tweak your lifestyle to achieve the best of both worlds?

You didn't shun optimization, you finally found it. By definition, optimizing isn't "how low can you go?" Unhealthy eating has nothing whatsoever to do with optimization.

May I ask why you don't like riding your bike to work? I can see it in weather extremes, but 5 miles on a trail twice a day sounds much better than the traffic, to me. Maybe that is just because the last time I had the choice, it was between traffic and traffic. I still preferred the bike most days, but I love riding my bike.

We've had a lot of hot and very humid weather here this summer (as in, I'd be drenched after a 5-mile ride around my neighborhood in the morning). So that may have played a role.

[RainyDay]

I think if "hardcore" is making you unhappy, then you haven't really achieved Mustachianism.  I believe it's about living your best life, and figuring out what DOES make you happy and only spending money on that and the necessities.  And figuring out what is a necessity for you.

MMM talks a lot about air conditioning and lowering your electric bill by turning it off.  Um, no.  I live in Virginia and it is HOT and HUMID here.  I'm miserable if there is no a/c.  Sleeping in the dampness is horrible, and I firmly believe that a good night's sleep is essential to my happiness.  So I spend money on the electric bill with no qualms. 

If eating better and buying more expensive food items makes you happy, then go for it. 

[Sibley]

I think if "hardcore" is making you unhappy, then you haven't really achieved Mustachianism.  I believe it's about living your best life, and figuring out what DOES make you happy and only spending money on that and the necessities.  And figuring out what is a necessity for you.

MMM talks a lot about air conditioning and lowering your electric bill by turning it off.  Um, no.  I live in Virginia and it is HOT and HUMID here.  I'm miserable if there is no a/c.  Sleeping in the dampness is horrible, and I firmly believe that a good night's sleep is essential to my happiness.  So I spend money on the electric bill with no qualms. 

If eating better and buying more expensive food items makes you happy, then go for it.

MMM has also never lived in a place like the American South, with high heat and humidity. Not using the AC or some other form of dehumidification will quickly cost far more than the electric bill because of mold remediation.

OP - you haven't found balance yet. There's a point that is frugal AND happy.

[Rosy]

Lately I've noticed myself pulling back from the hardcore Mustachian lifestyle. When the stay-at-home orders lifted in metro Detroit, at first, spending $30 on gas felt wasteful. I continued going to work by bike as I'd done before. But then over time, I got used to driving again. And actually, the thought of riding a bike on the 5.5 mile trail to work felt like unnecessary, self-hating punishment. Why ride for 30 minutes when I could arrive in 10 minutes by car?

I noticed the same thing across the board: When I went gung-ho with saving every dime I could on groceries, I was eating like shit (canned foods, minimal snacks, same meal every stinking day, and no enjoyment whatsoever). It became punishment! While the weekly bike trips to Aldi brought my grocery receipts to around $18, I felt deprived. Being the emotional creatures we are, we steer away from things that feel bad... whether or not they're technically the correct things to do. And that's what I did: I shunned optimization for ABUNDANCE and pleasure. Not stupidly high grocery bills, but above the threshold of satisfaction.

So I thought I'd reach out and see if any of you had ever experienced something like this before. Did you at one point go too extreme in Mustachianism? If so, how did you tweak your lifestyle to achieve the best of both worlds?

Bonbon - been there - done that!:) It took a while to change my perspective and re-direct my money.
Oh yeah - I went extreme several times and hated - hated - hated it and yes, it felt like punishment and deprivation.

I grew up seeing shopping as a treat, an indulgence, it was a wonderful day out spent with my mother shopping in the city, having lunch together replenishing and updating our wardrobes or hanging out with my friends at an outdoor cafe and buy something that caught my fancy.
Who doesn't like shopping? Many of the MMMrs apparently - to me it was always a joy, the hunt for something new and cool, an enjoyable day that ended with new treasures and feeling grateful that I could "afford" to indulge myself.

So I changed it to window shopping, which hurt at first and only reinforced the feeling of failure and inadequacy and worthlessness - I mean, really, if I can't afford to go out shopping then what sort of financial miscreant am I?:).
Why does it feel like punishment when in reality I am doing a good thing and changing my financial habits for the better?
Even seeing the RL effect on my savings could not cheer me up - I had achieved my new financial goals but I felt miserable.

So I decided to allow myself X to spend so I wouldn't feel entirely deprived, but that "solution" backfired in a weird way.
Since my "fun" budget was so damn small it wasn't "enough" to be meaningful to me - in fact - I felt like I was throwing my money away for unnecessary junk and that wasn't me either.

Finally after much agonizing and self-flagellation I realized two things.
I was OK with a restricted budget for a short time, my breaking point turned out to be three months.
I really wanted to succeed with my goals more than anything.

Solution - I gave myself one month (every three months) to spend instead of save.
It worked like a charm - for three months I had a restrictive, but not extreme budget and every quarter I got to spend instead of save.

Then a funny thing happened. Managing to live without for three months strengthened my financial muscles and instead of spending in the next quarter I would save it up for the next quarter and blow it then - which gave me much satisfaction!
But, sometimes I would actually plow it (or a part of it) into my savings helping me reach my goals faster than planned.
Sweet success!

I do love a challenge and I can be laser focused on my goals willing to do whatever it takes to make them happen, but as a natural spender it was not easy for me to create a new lifestyle that actually worked for me and helped me achieve my goals.
Instead of self-sabotage I found a way to roll with it.

OP your challenges and your goals will be unique, just like you and your lifestyle.
It takes time. Accept that there will be times when it all goes frustratingly slow and everyone else seems to be doing so much better than you.
Find your motivation!
Financial Independence is king, it can never be rated high enough in my book. RE is fungible, some people like their work some have other plans.

The only way to hasten the process is to make good money, but even then it will pay off if you optimize the hell out of everything and question every one of your expenditures and decisions more than once.
 
If you really want to make this work for you then you need to figure out what your stumbling blocks are and then tackle them.
You have to accept that you can't have it all.
Not right now anyway but perhaps later, especially if you find a way to bring in more money and save more because you honed and improved your optimizing skills.

[bonbonbaron]

May I ask why you don't like riding your bike to work? I can see it in weather extremes, but 5 miles on a trail twice a day sounds much better than the traffic, to me. Maybe that is just because the last time I had the choice, it was between traffic and traffic. I still preferred the bike most days, but I love riding my bike.

It's funny you ask, because I do love riding my bike. But when I feel pressured to hurry up and make it there on time, it's not fun anymore. It's stressful. "Well, why don't you just leave earlier then?" Because of morning laziness; I have to walk my puppy a couple miles first, set up my bedroom with his fan, toys, and water bowl, and play a game with him because I love him to pieces and want him to be happy. (I always feel guilty leaving him home, no matter how good my reason for leaving.) So with that overhead to leaving the house, just driving the car takes a load off of my mind.

[slappy]

Somewhere along the line I heard the phrase "cut/save till it hurts". I can't speak to the intent of the quote, but the me, it means cut/save until it hurts, and then ease up. It's kind of about finding that bottom line. Ok, so you could spend $18 a week, but you weren't happy. Spending more will make you happy. But spending more than, say, $50 a week, might not add happiness. So to me, that's what it's about. Now you know your limit. Same with the drive or whatever it is. To me, mustachianism has always been about spending enough to make you happy, but not falling into the trap of thinking that spending more will make you happier.

[StarBright]

Absolutely! And I will freely admit that I have never found my balance. I'm more like a pendulum when it comes to mustachianism.

And I very much identify with what you said about the bike and not liking when it feels rushed. I am that way with cooking. I used to love cooking! I made beautiful meals a few times a week. Now I try to fit in home cooked meals between a thousand other (necessary) things and a lot of that joy is gone. I trust that it will come back when I have more time someday.

I have come to realize that time is the key ingredient to my happiness. Interestingly, because of the mustachian focus on doing so much yourself instead of farming it out, all the time gets used up and at least for me, makes things less happy in the short term. So my sweet spot probably contains a lot less DIY than a lot of people on this forum :)

But for all of my savings pendulum and lack of balance, I 100% believe that I am better off having saved what I've saved over the last decade.  50 year old me will thank 35 year old me for my sacrifices.

[Paper Chaser]

Optimize for happiness instead of an investment balance. A lot of the philosophy behind MMM (and posters here) is rooted in being unhappy with high stress jobs and a cycle of debt/consumerism. So they save and invest like crazy to leave that behind and do something more enjoyable with their time. They're using money as a tool to optimize happiness. They're buying their freedom to do what they want a little earlier. Use the tool of money in a way that optimizes your happiness.

If driving makes you happier than biking, then have at it. If you hate cheap junk food, then avoid it. You might have to work a little bit longer, but you won't be miserable the whole time you're doing it.

[MrThatsDifferent]

My approach is to treat this all as experiment, trial and error. I oscillate between cutting back and going mad. The nice thing is I have a consciousness now. I have options. Before I only “went mad”. Now, not only can I evaluate that, I can modify it. I can also decide that somethings I’ll keep cutting back but others (my housecleaner), I’ll keep. Since I’ve made so many improvements and now my money is generally working for me, I’m fine with the indulgences. And if I feel I’ve gone too indulgent (like I’ve done recently with ordering food), I’ll change (like now cooking for myself again). One thing, as long as you’re taking the Pareto approach (80/20), don’t be too hard on yourself. Nobody’s perfect or needs to be.

[PDXTabs]

It's all about finding the right balance for you. I spend a lot on groceries but almost nothing on cars.

[FrugalPole]

Solution - I gave myself one month (every three months) to spend instead of save.
It worked like a charm - for three months I had a restrictive, but not extreme budget and every quarter I got to spend instead of save.

That's something that would've never worked for me. When I am focused on achieving something I need to put it in the center of my attention and do all I can to get there. If I pause for a moment and - let's say - I start spending money instead of saving I get this weird "oh, there is no point in saving anymore since I blew so much money this month" and it's difficult to get under control again. It's like taking a warranty seal off of something and you just... lose it ;)

[wenchsenior]

It's all about finding the right balance for you. I spend a lot on groceries but almost nothing on cars.

Yeah, I spent about 2 years (inspired by this forum) to focus on cutting our insane grocery costs.  Turned out that with the exception of a couple small tweaks that have stuck, it just made us stressed and pissed off all the time to save that 150-200$/month. Turned out to be totally NOT worth the effort for us.  We like to eat how we like to eat, and if we want to eat 100$ worth of salmon every month, etc., we're going to.   

[OtherJen]

It's all about finding the right balance for you. I spend a lot on groceries but almost nothing on cars.

Yeah, I spent about 2 years (inspired by this forum) to focus on cutting our insane grocery costs.  Turned out that with the exception of a couple small tweaks that have stuck, it just made us stressed and pissed off all the time to save that 150-200$/month. Turned out to be totally NOT worth the effort for us.  We like to eat how we like to eat, and if we want to eat 100$ worth of salmon every month, etc., we're going to.

Same. We rarely ate at restaurants even before the pandemic, but we enjoy cooking and eating good-quality food. If I can get a sale price or bulk discount on something that I would buy anyway, great! Otherwise, I don't worry about our grocery budget. We eat a healthy, balanced, seasonal diet and try not to waste food.

[Bucksandreds]

It's all about finding the right balance for you. I spend a lot on groceries but almost nothing on cars.

Yeah, I spent about 2 years (inspired by this forum) to focus on cutting our insane grocery costs.  Turned out that with the exception of a couple small tweaks that have stuck, it just made us stressed and pissed off all the time to save that 150-200$/month. Turned out to be totally NOT worth the effort for us.  We like to eat how we like to eat, and if we want to eat 100$ worth of salmon every month, etc., we're going to.

I agree. My friends drive Volvo, BMW, Audi. I drive Hyundai. I do love Argentinian red shrimp, steak, Crab cakes made from lump crab, wild alaskan Sockeye salmon, pancetta, pecorino Romano cheese,  tawny Porto, Weller bourbon, sparkling wine, fresh berries, local free range eggs, Gevalia coffe with oat milk, Yerba Mate in the afternoon, etc, etc, etc. after compiling this list, I’m now thirsty, hungry and not remotely guilty feeling.

[bbqbonelesswing]

So I thought I'd reach out and see if any of you had ever experienced something like this before. Did you at one point go too extreme in Mustachianism? If so, how did you tweak your lifestyle to achieve the best of both worlds?

Yes, of course. I've since pulled back and found a better balance. I'm ok with a little inefficiency here and there if it makes life more enjoyable. What I've also found is that by splurging on certain things, we spend smarter, and less overall. For example, buying quality groceries and a few treats at the supermarket make it less likely that we'll feel the need to treat ourselves by ordering out.

[Tinker]

oh my god your bike ride is only 5.5miles?

[Rosy]

Quote by Rosy:
Solution - I gave myself one month (every three months) to spend instead of save.
It worked like a charm - for three months I had a restrictive, but not extreme budget and every quarter I got to spend instead of save.

That's something that would've never worked for me. When I am focused on achieving something I need to put it in the center of my attention and do all I can to get there. If I pause for a moment and - let's say - I start spending money instead of saving I get this weird "oh, there is no point in saving anymore since I blew so much money this month" and it's difficult to get under control again. It's like taking a warranty seal off of something and you just... lose it ;)

@FrugalPole
Let me clarify - I only blew the amount I would normally save - nothing beyond that.
My overall plan - budget remained intact - I simply stopped saving for one month.

But yes, you are right, this is exactly how I saw it at the beginning as well. I was afraid I might not get back on track. Turns out I ended up looking forward to my treat of financial abandon and then felt energized and even more motivated to continue on my path knowing in three months I'd get to splurge once again.
Eventually, I took it to another level and found enough side gigs to totally cover the quarterly splurges so no impact at all to my savings.
I outmaneuvered my spend-happy little self:).

I don't know why three months was/is my breaking point, but I realized that I am quite irrational and emotional about money. I needed to find a solution that would make me feel good about my new path and give me positive reinforcement.
Before that self-sabotage did occur until I studied my patterns and fixed the problem.

OP
Until you discover what is holding you back and turn it into a positive experience you will struggle.

[julia]

OP: We are ultra frugal in every area except health. What's the point of saving money if by the time you reach your goal, you're unhealthy to enjoy your free time. I buy all the freshest and organic produce, plenty of specialty superfoods like raw cacao, cacao butter, etc. For two vegans, we still keep our grocery bill sometimes under 200$ Canadian a month (3 cheers for PC mastercard)! I also find so much pleasure in baking and cooking my own meals so it's a 2-in-1 deal!

My own struggle: My fiance and I live in a low income neighborhood to pay low rent. We both have a dream to live somewhere remote - a little cottage in the mountains or along some desolate coastline. We're both hermits on the inside and want to retreat away from society (although I'm starting to think it's due to being exposed to unintelligent and uneducated conversations, obnoxious people blasting their music, and fart-cannon cars). I know this isn't politically correct to say but I don't care anymore. I always am courteous and try to engage in conversation to be polite but I feel myself mentally retreating from society. Anyone live somewhere remote? What's your experience?