Electricity Prices around the world

[Prairie Stash]

https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/average-electricity-prices-kwh.html

This was an eye opener, basically North America has cheap electricity. Europeans have it far worse.  A different thread pointed out how much worse Australia was than anyone in the USA or Canada, I didn't realize how much worse they had it.

Maybe we forget how good we have it. On a different note though, what's stopping these foreign countries from widespread adoption of solar? It seems like solar is a cheaper alternative, without subsidy, in a lot of countries?

[With This Herring]

I wonder whether these charts show a fair comparison.  The purchasing power parity conversion helps, but are they including the other costs on the electricity or natural gas bills?

For example, we currently pay 11¢/kwh for electricity and 91¢/therm for natural gas.  However, each billing period there is a fixed delivery charge of $15.11 for electric and $12.30 for gas.  With our usage (236 kwh and 10 therms per month), breaking the fixed charges up by the average use in the past 12 months would give an effective rate of 17¢/kwh and $2.04/therm.  17¢/kwh still isn't a lot compared to many of the other countries on the chart, but it does show how much of a difference including a fixed charge could make (61% increase for electric, 124% increase for gas).

[Landlady]

I live in a county in WA with many hydro electric dams. Residents of my county only pay 2.7¢/kwh. When I moved here and got my first bill I was shocked by how low it was.
It definitely helps to live next to the source of energy!

[effigy98]

I wonder whether these charts show a fair comparison.  The purchasing power parity conversion helps, but are they including the other costs on the electricity or natural gas bills?

For example, we currently pay 11¢/kwh for electricity and 91¢/therm for natural gas.  However, each billing period there is a fixed delivery charge of $15.11 for electric and $12.30 for gas.  With our usage (236 kwh and 10 therms per month), breaking the fixed charges up by the average use in the past 12 months would give an effective rate of 17¢/kwh and $2.04/therm.  17¢/kwh still isn't a lot compared to many of the other countries on the chart, but it does show how much of a difference including a fixed charge could make (61% increase for electric, 124% increase for gas).

That fixed charge makes me so annoyed. Just bake it into the usage price.

[daverobev]

That fixed charge makes me so annoyed. Just bake it into the usage price.

You can't, though. Each house costs a certain amount to get service to, regardless of usage.

In the UK, it used to be the first x kWh a month were far more expensive than the rest, which is basically the same thing

[rpr]

It also depends on where you live in the US. Where I live, it is currently $0.36 per kWh.

[Spork]

I wonder whether these charts show a fair comparison.  The purchasing power parity conversion helps, but are they including the other costs on the electricity or natural gas bills?

For example, we currently pay 11¢/kwh for electricity and 91¢/therm for natural gas.  However, each billing period there is a fixed delivery charge of $15.11 for electric and $12.30 for gas.  With our usage (236 kwh and 10 therms per month), breaking the fixed charges up by the average use in the past 12 months would give an effective rate of 17¢/kwh and $2.04/therm.  17¢/kwh still isn't a lot compared to many of the other countries on the chart, but it does show how much of a difference including a fixed charge could make (61% increase for electric, 124% increase for gas).

That fixed charge makes me so annoyed. Just bake it into the usage price.

Partly that fixed charge was the "deregulation".  Since you can buy power from anyone, but there is still a single government-granted monopoly company that runs power lines and installs meters, this is how they get paid.

But... I also think someone has some forethought.  I think this charge is the realization of future shifts to more customer-generated power.  Unless you are totally off-grid, you still need a grid connection to feed back into when you are using more than you generate.  As more and more folks start generating their own power, this fee is going to climb.

[Metric Mouse]

On a different note though, what's stopping these foreign countries from widespread adoption of solar? It seems like solar is a cheaper alternative, without subsidy, in a lot of countries?

Probably limitations of the technology and price. Despite claims to the contrary, there is much room for the technology to improve. When it truly becomes usable on a wide scale, the shift will happen, first in places like OZ where electricity prices are higher.

[urbanista]

I work in electricity in Australia.

It is common misconception that solar and wind make overall price cheaper, unfortunatelly, it is the opposite. The state of South Australia has the highest penetration of wind farms producing electricity on the planet. It is also has the highest overall electricity price. Many factors contribute to that, but high wind penetration is a large contributor. Why? Because basically, wind is intermittent. We need to have fossil generators on stand by all the time to provide a fast back up. Usually those generators able to charge extreme prices at time of low wind and high demand. It's been a huge political and commercial problem for several years, and nobody really knows exactly how to fix it.

[Fresh Bread]

On a different note though, what's stopping these foreign countries from widespread adoption of solar? It seems like solar is a cheaper alternative, without subsidy, in a lot of countries?

Probably limitations of the technology and price. Despite claims to the contrary, there is much room for the technology to improve. When it truly becomes usable on a wide scale, the shift will happen, first in places like OZ where electricity prices are higher.

Once the price of battery storage becomes economic (in about 2 yrs maybe?) it is expected that there will be widespread adoption of solar in Australia. Solar panels are now very cheap and of course we have a lot of solar energy here in a lot of the country, but without storage you only get to use a fraction of what you create. We're selling excess power created during the day to the electricity companies at 11c/kwh but we're buying it in the evening at 27c/kwh or something. So for the average person who out all day, the payoff (currently) for solar panels is 5 years minimum, and could be as much as 10. 

[Metric Mouse]

On a different note though, what's stopping these foreign countries from widespread adoption of solar? It seems like solar is a cheaper alternative, without subsidy, in a lot of countries?

Probably limitations of the technology and price. Despite claims to the contrary, there is much room for the technology to improve. When it truly becomes usable on a wide scale, the shift will happen, first in places like OZ where electricity prices are higher.

Once the price of battery storage becomes economic (in about 2 yrs maybe?) it is expected that there will be widespread adoption of solar in Australia. Solar panels are now very cheap and of course we have a lot of solar energy here in a lot of the country, but without storage you only get to use a fraction of what you create. We're selling excess power created during the day to the electricity companies at 11c/kwh but we're buying it in the evening at 27c/kwh or something. So for the average person who out all day, the payoff (currently) for solar panels is 5 years minimum, and could be as much as 10.

Won't have to wait long to see, I guess!  I would think based on my limited research that the 'shift' is further out than that, but I'm wrong on just about everything, so there's that...

[Abe]

Assuming one won't die in the next 5-10 years, at this point in most countries over a lifetime it'd almost always be more economical to have solar panels, yes? If one can get a loan, it may make sense even accounting for opportunity cost of not investing the down payment.

[Prairie Stash]

Assuming one won't die in the next 5-10 years, at this point in most countries over a lifetime it'd almost always be more economical to have solar panels, yes? If one can get a loan, it may make sense even accounting for opportunity cost of not investing the down payment.

That's what I'm wondering. At the higher costs of electricity what's stopping the widespread adoption? Is it people are renting and don't want to upgrade the landlords house? Is it local regulations?

Perhaps the demand side/house is so low that it becomes prohibitive doing the small installs? Generally larger scale gets better returns, installing 12 panels isn't much harder than 6 and doesn't cost twice as much.

I have trouble wrapping my head around paying $0.30/kwh, its a high amount.  Of course in Ontario Canada they were getting paid to produce at one point at around that rate, I also couldn't figure out why 100% of people didn't get in on that sweet deal.

[SoftwareGoddess]

I have trouble wrapping my head around paying $0.30/kwh, its a high amount.  Of course in Ontario Canada they were getting paid to produce at one point at around that rate, I also couldn't figure out why 100% of people didn't get in on that sweet deal.

My house faces south. Perfect for solar panels, you might think. However, there are 3 dormers breaking up the roof area. There are two trees over 40 feet tall, plus a shorter one around 30 feet, that shade the roof in summer. My feeling is that my house is a sub-optimal candidate for solar.

[effigy98]

I wonder whether these charts show a fair comparison.  The purchasing power parity conversion helps, but are they including the other costs on the electricity or natural gas bills?

For example, we currently pay 11¢/kwh for electricity and 91¢/therm for natural gas.  However, each billing period there is a fixed delivery charge of $15.11 for electric and $12.30 for gas.  With our usage (236 kwh and 10 therms per month), breaking the fixed charges up by the average use in the past 12 months would give an effective rate of 17¢/kwh and $2.04/therm.  17¢/kwh still isn't a lot compared to many of the other countries on the chart, but it does show how much of a difference including a fixed charge could make (61% increase for electric, 124% increase for gas).

That fixed charge makes me so annoyed. Just bake it into the usage price.

Partly that fixed charge was the "deregulation".  Since you can buy power from anyone, but there is still a single government-granted monopoly company that runs power lines and installs meters, this is how they get paid.

But... I also think someone has some forethought.  I think this charge is the realization of future shifts to more customer-generated power.  Unless you are totally off-grid, you still need a grid connection to feed back into when you are using more than you generate.  As more and more folks start generating their own power, this fee is going to climb.

Well it makes me want to go 100% electric and shut off my nat gas. That charge is 50% of my total gas bill which is insane just for the hot water heater!!

[Metric Mouse]

Assuming one won't die in the next 5-10 years, at this point in most countries over a lifetime it'd almost always be more economical to have solar panels, yes? If one can get a loan, it may make sense even accounting for opportunity cost of not investing the down payment.

Only if they could all be optimally placed. At a national level there is probably enough area to make large-scale arrays. At the local level there is so much variation that the panels don't return nearly what they are rated for, and thus the pay off is longer.

The market isn't stupid. When the tech is feasible, the 'shift' towards renewables will occur. It's just not there yet.

[alsoknownasDean]

Assuming one won't die in the next 5-10 years, at this point in most countries over a lifetime it'd almost always be more economical to have solar panels, yes? If one can get a loan, it may make sense even accounting for opportunity cost of not investing the down payment.

That's what I'm wondering. At the higher costs of electricity what's stopping the widespread adoption? Is it people are renting and don't want to can't upgrade the landlords house? Is it local regulations?

Fixed that for you. Getting a landlord to approve a solar installation is highly unlikely. I've even seen properties advertised indicating that the broken dishwasher will not be fixed. :)

Solar is getting quite popular here, but I guess lots of people still have a (incorrect) perception that solar is hugely expensive to install, or they worry about the appearance of solar panels on the roof. It seems to be more popular on new builds than being fitted to existing housing. Those of a less Mustachian line of thinking might be more reluctant to install solar.

0.29USD per kWh sounds like a 'worst case' rate, it's probably using the most expensive electricity supplier and the (much higher) 2011 exchange rates (and no pay on time discounts or similar incentives). I'm paying the equivalent of US21c/kWh including a GreenPower surcharge, and it'd be closer to US13-14/kWh without it. Of course there's an expensive supply charge on top (about $1AUD/day).

[Fresh Bread]

0.29USD per kWh sounds like a 'worst case' rate, it's probably using the most expensive electricity supplier and the (much higher) 2011 exchange rates (and no pay on time discounts or similar incentives). I'm paying the equivalent of US21c/kWh including a GreenPower surcharge, and it'd be closer to US13-14/kWh without it. Of course there's an expensive supply charge on top (about $1AUD/day).

Who is your provider, I might swap!

Mine is 22.4c/kwh including on time discount and GST so I make that US16.8c. Since we have panels, our ratio of power to connection charges is very high, and (if my maths is right) I get 29c per kwh including supply. Most people don't have panels so they would smooth out that supply charge more. And if they are high users, the price goes down after the first 10kwh a day so I guess it would go down even further. So yes, 29c seems high. The only thing (apart from exchange rates) that I can think of is that there are certain states and rural areas paying a shitload more for power due to distance.

[alsoknownasDean]

0.29USD per kWh sounds like a 'worst case' rate, it's probably using the most expensive electricity supplier and the (much higher) 2011 exchange rates (and no pay on time discounts or similar incentives). I'm paying the equivalent of US21c/kWh including a GreenPower surcharge, and it'd be closer to US13-14/kWh without it. Of course there's an expensive supply charge on top (about $1AUD/day).

Who is your provider, I might swap!

Mine is 22.4c/kwh including on time discount and GST so I make that US16.8c. Since we have panels, our ratio of power to connection charges is very high, and (if my maths is right) I get 29c per kwh including supply. Most people don't have panels so they would smooth out that supply charge more. And if they are high users, the price goes down after the first 10kwh a day so I guess it would go down even further. So yes, 29c seems high. The only thing (apart from exchange rates) that I can think of is that there are certain states and rural areas paying a shitload more for power due to distance.

I'm with Dodo. I'm happy enough with them. In summer I only use about 3kWh a day so the supply charge makes up the bulk of my rates. 23.5c/kWh base rate, 30% POTD (base rate only), 9c/kWh for 100% GreenPower and GST on top. Daily supply charge is 92.95c+GST.

I'm in the Citipower distribution area (my parents live in a regional area which is more expensive). Have a look at the energy price fact sheets on the provider's website.

[Fresh Bread]

Dodo charge more for Greenpower than Origin, their discount is big but I think my 17% is applied to all the charges. I guess a spreadsheet is in order if I wanted to compare but my last bill was $140 for 4kwh a day so it's probably not worth my time to save a couple of bucks! Cheers Dean for the info.

[JLR]

I wonder whether these charts show a fair comparison.  The purchasing power parity conversion helps, but are they including the other costs on the electricity or natural gas bills?

For example, we currently pay 11¢/kwh for electricity and 91¢/therm for natural gas.  However, each billing period there is a fixed delivery charge of $15.11 for electric and $12.30 for gas. 

I live in Australia, the land of 29c/kwh. To give you a fair comparison I dug out our last bills. We pay $1.403/day for our gas service ($131.91 service charge for our last gas bill) and 72c/day for our electricity service ($68.40 total service charge for our last electricity bill. I then pay a 'green' charge on top of this of 5.3c/kwh for gas and 12.95c/day for electricity.

[JLR]

I'm with Dodo.

I'll have to see if they service our area.

[mwulff]

I live in Denmark which has one of the highest electricity prices in the world. What really is preventing adoption is the horrible deal on solar.

If you produce a kWh that you don't use then you sell it for 0,88 DKK ($0.13) but you have to buy it back from the grid at approx. 2,50 DKK ($0.36)..

This makes solar pretty unattractive since private homes are mostly empty during the daytime. It has basically stopped private adoption of solar in this country.

The Tesla Powerwall with it's 14 kWh of storage will change this dramatically. If you own an electric car getting a Tesla Powerwall and solar is a no brainer in this country since electricity is very expensive.

But yes, our american friends pay next to nothing for all the energy they consume, be it gas, electricity or fossil fuels.

[With This Herring]

I wonder whether these charts show a fair comparison.  The purchasing power parity conversion helps, but are they including the other costs on the electricity or natural gas bills?

For example, we currently pay 11¢/kwh for electricity and 91¢/therm for natural gas.  However, each billing period there is a fixed delivery charge of $15.11 for electric and $12.30 for gas.  With our usage (236 kwh and 10 therms per month), breaking the fixed charges up by the average use in the past 12 months would give an effective rate of 17¢/kwh and $2.04/therm.  17¢/kwh still isn't a lot compared to many of the other countries on the chart, but it does show how much of a difference including a fixed charge could make (61% increase for electric, 124% increase for gas).

That fixed charge makes me so annoyed. Just bake it into the usage price.

Partly that fixed charge was the "deregulation".  Since you can buy power from anyone, but there is still a single government-granted monopoly company that runs power lines and installs meters, this is how they get paid.

But... I also think someone has some forethought.  I think this charge is the realization of future shifts to more customer-generated power.  Unless you are totally off-grid, you still need a grid connection to feed back into when you are using more than you generate.  As more and more folks start generating their own power, this fee is going to climb.

Well it makes me want to go 100% electric and shut off my nat gas. That charge is 50% of my total gas bill which is insane just for the hot water heater!!

I've thought about that, as heat is included in our rent, but the landlord owns the (gas) hot water heater, so we couldn't switch it out.

I wonder whether these charts show a fair comparison.  The purchasing power parity conversion helps, but are they including the other costs on the electricity or natural gas bills?

For example, we currently pay 11¢/kwh for electricity and 91¢/therm for natural gas.  However, each billing period there is a fixed delivery charge of $15.11 for electric and $12.30 for gas. 

I live in Australia, the land of 29c/kwh. To give you a fair comparison I dug out our last bills. We pay $1.403/day for our gas service ($131.91 service charge for our last gas bill) and 72c/day for our electricity service ($68.40 total service charge for our last electricity bill. I then pay a 'green' charge on top of this of 5.3c/kwh for gas and 12.95c/day for electricity.

So your service charges are higher, too.  To clarify, our billing period is per month, and it looks like yours are per quarter.

[Metric Mouse]

But yes, our american friends pay next to nothing for all the energy they consume, be it gas, electricity or fossil fuels.

Yes, having a wealth of natural resources that can be sourced domestically and large amounts of cheap liquid capital floating around to fund infrastructure projects do make things much less expensive. It truly is a great country.

[JLR]

I wonder whether these charts show a fair comparison.  The purchasing power parity conversion helps, but are they including the other costs on the electricity or natural gas bills?

For example, we currently pay 11¢/kwh for electricity and 91¢/therm for natural gas.  However, each billing period there is a fixed delivery charge of $15.11 for electric and $12.30 for gas. 

I live in Australia, the land of 29c/kwh. To give you a fair comparison I dug out our last bills. We pay $1.403/day for our gas service ($131.91 service charge for our last gas bill) and 72c/day for our electricity service ($68.40 total service charge for our last electricity bill. I then pay a 'green' charge on top of this of 5.3c/kwh for gas and 12.95c/day for electricity.

So your service charges are higher, too.  To clarify, our billing period is per month, and it looks like yours are per quarter.

Yes, that's why I put in our daily cost, too. To make it easier to compare. :)