Author Topic: Electricity Leaking, 450KWH/month with no usage!?!? (Read 23282 times)

kamas · « **on:** July 30, 2013, 12:21:09 AM »

Is it possible for there to be electricity leaking somewhere in the wires in the walls? This is the only thing I can think of. I KNOW i do not use 450 kwh per month. Even when Im out of town for the whole month the bill is still high this has got to stop.

I only have 1 refrigerator. I do not have a washer or dryer. The A/C is never on. The oven and hot water is electric, but I do not use a lot of it.

One room in the house does have an electrical problem. For some strange reason, none of the electricity works in that room unless there is something plugged into a certain wall socket. If you unplug it, then the electricity in that whole room does not work. Does this sound like something here is causing some electricity to be leaked and wasted every month?

Is it possible to find out? How can I go about and find out if these is electricity leaking?
How can I find out my actual KWH usage per month? Is there some device I can use to find out how much I am really using so i can know my true electrical usage?

marty998 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2013, 01:39:32 AM »

A fridge/freezer combo may account for about 50-100 kwh, 150 tops if you have an old inefficient one.

Anything you leave on standby uses power, which could be your oven, dishwasher, microwave, stove exhaust, washing machine, tv, game consoles, DVD recorder etc.

You would have to leave a lot of things on standby for the power usage to get up to 450kwh, but judging from a lot of posts on these boards it amazes me how much power you North Americans consume.

kamas · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2013, 02:08:21 AM »

I have a new, efficient fridge that does not use much power.
I do not have a washer/dryer/dishwasher/tv/microwave/game console/radio or any other electronics other than a single laptop and two lamps with small low power light bulbs. I do not have anything on standby.
I already mentioned that the Air conditioner is never on.

Something is wrong with the electricity system in this place, I do not use 450 kwh per month.

gdborton · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2013, 07:30:03 AM »

Quote

Something is wrong with the electricity system in this place, I do not use 450 kwh per month.

You seem pretty sure, why not call an electrician instead of creating a thread?

Where do you live, what kind of housing is it, do you have a sump or dehumidifier, automatic lights, leaky faucet, dirty neighbor?

velocistar237 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2013, 07:33:28 AM »

A fridge should use about 50 kWh/month. What about a water heater, well pump, or sump pump? If you have a broken one of those, it could draw a lot of current.

If you have access to the power meter, you could compare its spin speed to your monthly consumption. If it matches, then start shutting off breakers until you find the culprit.

kamas · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2013, 11:47:11 AM »

I don't use or have any pump or sump pump or dehumidifier.
I don't want to waste money on an electrician unless I know what Im doing. My main question was, "is it possible that there is electricity leaking in the wires in the walls?"
Does anyone know the answer to this?

turboseize · « **Reply #6 on:** July 30, 2013, 11:57:22 AM »

Rather not.

But you would not be the first to pay for another person's electricity...

kamas · « **Reply #7 on:** July 30, 2013, 12:16:57 PM »

Ok, so you think the problem is the electricity is being used by a neighboring apartment in the building?
What about that problem with the electricity in that room described? "For some strange reason, none of the electricity works in that room unless there is something plugged into a certain wall socket. If you unplug it, then the electricity in that whole room does not work"

Is that just an internal problem and has nothing to do with the high energy bill?

jba302 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2013, 12:21:33 PM »

Check your actual meter, it may have not been read correctly. That is a hell of a lot of energy to be losing, maybe you are paying for someone else's power or they misread the meter.

Do your actual question - Yes, it is in fact possible to bleed power in the walls. It happens with old crappy wiring, or wiring that is too small for the current. Both create resistance, which turns into heat, which then can burn out the wires or burn down your residence. The amount of wattage you are having above your normal usage is not going to be due to leakage, unless you can feel heat coming through the walls and they have miraculously not burned out.

dragoncar · « **Reply #9 on:** July 30, 2013, 01:04:52 PM »

Quote from: jba302 on July 30, 2013, 12:21:33 PM

Check your actual meter, it may have not been read correctly. That is a hell of a lot of energy to be losing, maybe you are paying for someone else's power or they misread the meter.

Do your actual question - Yes, it is in fact possible to bleed power in the walls. It happens with old crappy wiring, or wiring that is too small for the current. Both create resistance, which turns into heat, which then can burn out the wires or burn down your residence. The amount of wattage you are having above your normal usage is not going to be due to leakage, unless you can feel heat coming through the walls and they have miraculously not burned out.

I agree - it is possible. What I would do is unplug absolutely everything. Then look at the Meyer and see how fast it's spinning. Google for more info in power meters. If it is spinning, try turning off individual breakers/fuses one by one to try to determine which circuit is the culprit. If they are all off, and power is still leaking then hit the main power cutoff. Maybe the meter is broken.

If, when you unplugged everything, the meter stopped spinning, you need to determine which appliance is using the power. Plug in major appliances one by one (from largest to smallest) and note the additional power usage.

It is also possible this is purely a billing issue. Talk to your power company about whether they actually checked the meter and whether the bill is estimated. Check the numbers yourself to make sue they didn't misread the meter.

If all else fails ask the power company. They may send someone out for free if you convince them that it might be a problem with their equipment or wires, not yours. They may have programs available to help finance repairs or appliance replacements.

velocistar237 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 30, 2013, 01:06:29 PM »

dragoncar beat me to the punch, but I'll post this anyway:

Take a look at http://highelectricbill.com

Okay, so you're in an apartment building, and your water heater and stove are not electric.

Do you access to your electric meter?
Do you have access to your circuit panel?
Do you have a Kill-a-watt or equivalent?

I live in a multi-unit building, and there is only one circuit panel for each unit. There are, however, lights in the common areas. They must be wired up to at least one of the three panels, meaning someone is paying for the shared lighting. Also, I imagine that circuits in your apartment building could be wired to the wrong panel. The power company could have you and your neighbor's meters switched in their records. This happened to my neighbors. Have your power company inspect your meter setup.

See here: http://www.highelectricbill.com/Multi-meter.htm

When you shut off the main to your apartment, does the meter disc still rotate?

You could systematically go through your apartment and find out what each breaker switch corresponds to, then switch off any breaker that didn't do anything. If a breaker switch goes to the common area or another apartment, you'll find out eventually.

Quote from: kamas on July 30, 2013, 12:16:57 PM

What about that problem with the electricity in that room described? "For some strange reason, none of the electricity works in that room unless there is something plugged into a certain wall socket. If you unplug it, then the electricity in that whole room does not work"

Is that just an internal problem and has nothing to do with the high energy bill?

So the plug just needs a plug in it, but it doesn't need the appliance to be switched on? Is it a 2-prong or a 3-prong plug? It's possible the outlet is wired in series rather than parallel.

You can get a circuit tester to see if any of the leads are switched. It's remotely possible that correcting the outlets will fix the circuit. If that doesn't fix the problem, then more advanced circuit diagnostics might be necessary, where you use a multi-meter to check the wires at each outlet and junction box to try to build a map of the circuit and figure out what's wired wrong.

From here:

Quote

usually, the problem is one connection on one outlet and a string of outlets along a wall will be good up to a particular outlet, and bad after the outlet. either the last good outlet or the first bad outlet will be the problem. if that outlet is replaced or reconnected, things should begin working again.

DanBrewMan · « **Reply #11 on:** July 30, 2013, 01:14:15 PM »

Some electric companies won't even check your meter and will just "assume" a certain amount of power was used. I assume they figure they will come out ahead even if you use more than they think since they don't have to pay someone to go out and check it.

That may be your problem.

Spork · « **Reply #12 on:** July 30, 2013, 01:19:44 PM »

Previous advice seems solid.

I had a similar issue with water in an apartment... and they'd botched the labeling on the meters. (Meter box flooded and the labels came off. They just stuck them back on where they thought they went.) This means my previous reading and my next reading were off by > 100k gallons.

If you suspect they've swapped out the meter labels... call out the power company. They should be able to verify this in no time.

geekette · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2013, 01:47:18 PM »

Reminds me of an anecdote in Reader's Digest many years ago - a couple couldn't figure out why the electric bill for their tiny apartment was so high, so the went to the box and started turning off circuits one by one. First their apartment went dark, then others in the building, then the streetlights...

</threadjack>

AlmostIndependent · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2013, 09:54:30 AM »

Quote from: DanBrewMan on July 30, 2013, 01:14:15 PM

Some electric companies won't even check your meter and will just "assume" a certain amount of power was used. I assume they figure they will come out ahead even if you use more than they think since they don't have to pay someone to go out and check it.

That may be your problem.

My electric meter only gets read every few months. I would call your electric company and ask them what their procedure is. It could be an easy explanation.

Owl · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2013, 01:20:53 PM »

I had weird power use for a while - it turned out the furnace igniter was stuck "on".
It sounds like an electrician would help you with that poorly wired room, so I'd say to call one.

notquitefrugal · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2013, 02:24:43 PM »

How old is the water heater and how much insulation does it have? An electric water heater uses a lot of power. It uses even more if it's poorly insulated and the heat escapes into the room where it's located. You might invest in a fiberglass insulation blanket for it.

AJ · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2013, 02:30:08 PM »

This could easily be your water heater: http://waterheatertimer.org/How-much-does-it-cost-to-run-water-heater.html

Perhaps you could turn it off when you travel and see if that resolves the issue for you?

StarswirlTheMustached · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2013, 07:06:37 PM »

Now, this is just me, but I think if I was renting somewhere where the wiring was that poorly done, I'd move out before it had a chance to catch fire.

notquitefrugal · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2013, 08:12:30 PM »

Another thought I had--does the fridge run 24/7? It should only run about 40% of the time.

BC_Goldman · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2013, 02:05:14 PM »

The rental owned by my partnership is unoccupied and using over 1,000 kWh a month. We need to take a trip out and check it. This is another reason why you shouldn't buy property that is two hours away.

dragoncar · « **Reply #21 on:** August 01, 2013, 02:11:08 PM »

Quote from: BC_Goldman on August 01, 2013, 02:05:14 PM

The rental owned by my partnership is unoccupied and using over 1,000 kWh a month. We need to take a trip out and check it. This is another reason why you shouldn't buy property that is two hours away.

I have a feeling it is now occupied by a ... Home gardener

AlmostIndependent · « **Reply #22 on:** August 01, 2013, 02:27:53 PM »

Quote from: dragoncar on August 01, 2013, 02:11:08 PM

Quote from: BC_Goldman on August 01, 2013, 02:05:14 PM
The rental owned by my partnership is unoccupied and using over 1,000 kWh a month. We need to take a trip out and check it. This is another reason why you shouldn't buy property that is two hours away.

I have a feeling it is now occupied by a ... Home gardener

I would bet money on it.

BC_Goldman · « **Reply #23 on:** August 01, 2013, 02:29:09 PM »

Not that I know. We were there a couple months ago and it was empty. Found one of the electric heaters was left on so we switched it off but bills have still been high. I'm wondering if the meter records were switched.

kamas · « **Reply #24 on:** August 06, 2013, 02:26:08 PM »

Found the problem!
It is the electric water heater that is wasting all the energy. I do not even use that much water. The problem is that thing is ALWAYS RUNNING. This explains why the winter bill once was GREATER than 450 KWH, even when the apartment was UNOCCUPIED and the central heater was off for the entire month. The water heater, however, kept running in order to keep the water hot.

Something is wrong with this water heater. Maybe there is no insulation on it. Maybe it is just old.

This water heater is costing 90% of my energy bill, and I don't even use it!

Mr.Macinstache · « **Reply #25 on:** August 06, 2013, 02:37:23 PM »

Quote from: kamas on August 06, 2013, 02:26:08 PM

Found the problem!
It is the electric water heater that is wasting all the energy. I do not even use that much water. The problem is that thing is ALWAYS RUNNING. This explains why the winter bill once was GREATER than 450 KWH, even when the apartment was UNOCCUPIED and the central heater was off for the entire month. The water heater, however, kept running in order to keep the water hot.

Something is wrong with this water heater. Maybe there is no insulation on it. Maybe it is just old.

This water heater is costing 90% of my energy bill, and I don't even use it!

Thanks for the update... and yes they do use a ton. Tankless is a better option, but if you rent you dont have that option.

kamas · « **Reply #26 on:** August 06, 2013, 02:51:29 PM »

Can you tell me more about tankless systems? I have been looking into them to learn more, for future reference. Do you have any suggestions or helpful hints about tankless systems and any safety concerns or other concerns they may have?

Spork · « **Reply #27 on:** August 06, 2013, 03:19:37 PM »

It could be something as simple as the heater elements getting worn out.

I do have a tankless. Mine is a Rinnai. If you go that route, you'll want gas. Whole house electric tankless heaters take an immense amount of electricity to run them. A plumber friend of mine said he wouldn't put one in unless the house had 400amp service -- which around here is pretty darn uncommon. I think you can get smaller units that use a lot less... but they won't handle the flow for an entire house.

notquitefrugal · « **Reply #28 on:** August 06, 2013, 06:57:52 PM »

kamas,

You can try lowering the temperature on the electric water heater or adding insulation to it. The heating elements should only kick on when the tank's temperature drops below the set point. Some people do not recommend lowering the temperature below 120-125 degrees Fahrenheit, as there is some risk that Legionella bacteria can grow inside the tank below that temperature.

If you truly don't use any hot water at all, can you turn off the circuit breaker, turn off the water supply to the water heater, and drain the tank?

NinetyFour · « **Reply #29 on:** August 06, 2013, 07:18:05 PM »

I have a Bosch Aquastar natural gas tankless water heater. I LOVE it!! Because it is gas powered, it did need to be vented. The installation (I hired a plumber) was not a big deal. He did a good job. Since I live in a small (about 650 sq ft) house, I do not actually need much hot water. I do my laundry in cold water, and often was dishes in cold water. I only need hot water when I shower, and when washing dishes in the winter.

I bought the Bosch back when there were still tax credits for such energy saving things. (I think Congress has since done away with those credits.) So that was an added bonus.

teen persuasion · « **Reply #30 on:** August 06, 2013, 09:35:57 PM »

Could the bottom of the water tank be filling with sediment, insulating the heating element from the water, causing it to run all the time?

If you are in an apartment, this issue sounds like it is best passed on to the manager. The water tank may just need draining (to get rid of sediment), or needs repair, or is on it's last legs and needs replacement.

kamas · « **Reply #31 on:** August 07, 2013, 01:02:15 AM »

Quote from: Spork on August 06, 2013, 03:19:37 PM

It could be something as simple as the heater elements getting worn out.

Quote from: teen persuasion on August 06, 2013, 09:35:57 PM

Could the bottom of the water tank be filling with sediment, insulating the heating element from the water, causing it to run all the time?
If you are in an apartment, this issue sounds like it is best passed on to the manager. The water tank may just need draining (to get rid of sediment), or needs repair, or is on it's last legs and needs replacement.

These are very likely possibilities. I will have to try and see the age of the water heater. How long do water heaters usually last before they go bad? I suspect this one is probably very old. One thing now is trying to convince the apartment manager to look into this.

Spork · « **Reply #32 on:** August 07, 2013, 08:54:55 AM »

Quote from: kamas on August 07, 2013, 01:02:15 AM

Quote from: Spork on August 06, 2013, 03:19:37 PM
It could be something as simple as the heater elements getting worn out.
Quote from: teen persuasion on August 06, 2013, 09:35:57 PM
Could the bottom of the water tank be filling with sediment, insulating the heating element from the water, causing it to run all the time?
If you are in an apartment, this issue sounds like it is best passed on to the manager. The water tank may just need draining (to get rid of sediment), or needs repair, or is on it's last legs and needs replacement.

This depends on the chemistry of your water. Some areas they don't last very long at all. Others: they last forever.

There are 2 "failures" -- the heating element and the tank itself. If the tank fails... you buy another one! The element isn't usually very expensive though.

Electric heaters also have a sacrificial rod in them. In other words, this is a reactive metal that will degrade over time in order to save the heating element. If the rod degrades to nothing, your element will deteriorate. Normally you will replace the rod every few years (depending on water chemistry) and the element will last much longer. If you replace the element, also check the rod to make sure it doesn't also need replacing.

These are very likely possibilities. I will have to try and see the age of the water heater. How long do water heaters usually last before they go bad? I suspect this one is probably very old. One thing now is trying to convince the apartment manager to look into this.

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Author Topic: Electricity Leaking, 450KWH/month with no usage!?!? (Read 23282 times)