Easier to FIRE in US or Canada

[kenmoremmm]

Generally speaking, of course.

We're considering expatting to the great white north (2 kids in tow)

[HipGnosis]

Canada's universal, publicly funded, health-care system takes out a whole bunch of the unknowns of health care costs in the US

[MrThatsDifferent]

I love visiting Canada but no way do I want to live in that fucking cold all year round. If MMM can manage low cost health care during FIRE, so can you.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Probably depends on your personal circumstances. We pay 25% of our gross wages in healthcare costs, and despite what people like MrThatsDifferent might think, there's nothing I can do about it as a resident of the U.S. So there's little doubt that Canada would be a better location for us. We have no plan to seek employment in Canada, but it's on the table if the situation here ever becomes untenable.

[Prairie Moustache]

If you're not feeling badass enough to bike in -40 C check out Victoria BC. pretty mild winters (mean of 5 C in January) and less rainy than the mainland.

[MrThatsDifferent]

Probably depends on your personal circumstances. We pay 25% of our gross wages in healthcare costs, and despite what people like MrThatsDifferent might think, there's nothing I can do about it as a resident of the U.S. So there's little doubt that Canada would be a better location for us. We have no plan to seek employment in Canada, but it's on the table if the situation here ever becomes untenable.

Wait, are your FIREd? Cause that was the question. MMM does not contribute 25% of his expenses to healthcare. Have you read his post on it? It means strutting your money in a way to make your income low, but it can be done (also taking a plan with a high deductible and staying as healthy as possible).

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Probably depends on your personal circumstances. We pay 25% of our gross wages in healthcare costs, and despite what people like MrThatsDifferent might think, there's nothing I can do about it as a resident of the U.S. So there's little doubt that Canada would be a better location for us. We have no plan to seek employment in Canada, but it's on the table if the situation here ever becomes untenable.

Wait, are your FIREd? Cause that was the question. MMM does not contribute 25% of his expenses to healthcare. Have you read his post on it? It means strutting your money in a way to make your income low, but it can be done (also taking a plan with a high deductible and staying as healthy as possible).

You don't get it, do you? I have a child who was born with birth defects/disabilities. FIREing will not make that go away, and there was nothing my family could have done to "stay as healthy as possible". Shit happens and you can't control everything.

We are on a high deductible plan, because there is literally no other option between both my employer and my wife's. We pay $15,000/year in health insurance premiums and $10,000/year to hit the OOP Max (which we have hit every year since he was born). If we FIRE'd, we could reduce our insurance costs by insuring through ACA, but we'd still be on the hook for the OOP Max. So we cannot FIRE any time soon, because $10,000/year in out-of-pocket healthcare costs requires an additional $250,000 a year in stash. So we must keep working until we can save the extra quarter million, and meanwhile we will continue to earn too much to qualify for subsidized insurance. Hence, $15,000/year in premiums.

Do you understand now why it would be easier for us to FIRE in Canada? Cause that was the question.

[mathlete]

The US has better potential to earn a mega-high income, and lower taxes. Canada has better social services.

If I'm a person of average talent, I'll take Canada. If I'm above average, give me the USA.

[Prairie Moustache]

Probably depends on your personal circumstances. We pay 25% of our gross wages in healthcare costs, and despite what people like MrThatsDifferent might think, there's nothing I can do about it as a resident of the U.S. So there's little doubt that Canada would be a better location for us. We have no plan to seek employment in Canada, but it's on the table if the situation here ever becomes untenable.

Wait, are your FIREd? Cause that was the question. MMM does not contribute 25% of his expenses to healthcare. Have you read his post on it? It means strutting your money in a way to make your income low, but it can be done (also taking a plan with a high deductible and staying as healthy as possible).

You don't get it, do you? I have a child who was born with birth defects/disabilities. FIREing will not make that go away, and there was nothing my family could have done to "stay as healthy as possible". Shit happens and you can't control everything.

We are on a high deductible plan, because there is literally no other option between both my employer and my wife's. We pay $15,000/year in health insurance premiums and $10,000/year to hit the OOP Max (which we have hit every year since he was born). If we FIRE'd, we could reduce our insurance costs by insuring through ACA, but we'd still be on the hook for the OOP Max. So we cannot FIRE any time soon, because $10,000/year in out-of-pocket healthcare costs requires an additional $250,000 a year in stash. So we must keep working until we can save the extra quarter million, and meanwhile we will continue to earn too much to qualify for subsidized insurance. Hence, $15,000/year in premiums.

Do you understand now why it would be easier for us to FIRE in Canada? Cause that was the question.

My brother has cerebral palsy and living in a country with publicly funded healthcare probably saved my parents tens of thousands of dollars when he was younger and required physical/occupational/speech therapy. Not everything was covered of course, but it helps a whole hell of a lot when you have circumstances out of your control. Some provinces have better services than others since healthcare is provincially managed. I know a few families with kids with disabilities who moved to Alberta for this reason.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

My brother has cerebral palsy and living in a country with publicly funded healthcare probably saved my parents tens of thousands of dollars when he was younger and required physical/occupational/speech therapy. Not everything was covered of course, but it helps a whole hell of a lot when you have circumstances out of your control. Some provinces have better services than others since healthcare is provincially managed. I know a few families with kids with disabilities who moved to Alberta for this reason.

We have strongly considered moving to Canada. I've worked for two companies with offices in Canada, and I could likely get back on with either company if we decided to pursue it. Ultimately, we've decided that it's not worth it to leave behind our families and friends. I could probably handle the winter (I have a sister in Wisconsin and she seems to be handling it ok), but would be tough to make it without having the help of our families.

[soccerluvof4]

My brother has cerebral palsy and living in a country with publicly funded healthcare probably saved my parents tens of thousands of dollars when he was younger and required physical/occupational/speech therapy. Not everything was covered of course, but it helps a whole hell of a lot when you have circumstances out of your control. Some provinces have better services than others since healthcare is provincially managed. I know a few families with kids with disabilities who moved to Alberta for this reason.

We have strongly considered moving to Canada. I've worked for two companies with offices in Canada, and I could likely get back on with either company if we decided to pursue it. Ultimately, we've decided that it's not worth it to leave behind our families and friends. I could probably handle the winter (I have a sister in Wisconsin and she seems to be handling it ok), but would be tough to make it without having the help of our families.

Seems like you have done your homework on this. I live in Wisconsin as well as your sister as you mentioned and there are parts of Canada that are no Different.  Not knowing alot about it other than I hear Vancouver is warmer but very expensive, Toronto would be similar in climate but again expensive for your situation and medical needs how does the cost of living compare. In other words when you do all the math if its more expensive to live there does it still workout for you. Because then yea it seems to make alot of sense.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

My brother has cerebral palsy and living in a country with publicly funded healthcare probably saved my parents tens of thousands of dollars when he was younger and required physical/occupational/speech therapy. Not everything was covered of course, but it helps a whole hell of a lot when you have circumstances out of your control. Some provinces have better services than others since healthcare is provincially managed. I know a few families with kids with disabilities who moved to Alberta for this reason.

We have strongly considered moving to Canada. I've worked for two companies with offices in Canada, and I could likely get back on with either company if we decided to pursue it. Ultimately, we've decided that it's not worth it to leave behind our families and friends. I could probably handle the winter (I have a sister in Wisconsin and she seems to be handling it ok), but would be tough to make it without having the help of our families.

Seems like you have done your homework on this. I live in Wisconsin as well as your sister as you mentioned and there are parts of Canada that are no Different.  Not knowing alot about it other than I hear Vancouver is warmer but very expensive, Toronto would be similar in climate but again expensive for your situation and medical needs how does the cost of living compare. In other words when you do all the math if its more expensive to live there does it still workout for you. Because then yea it seems to make alot of sense.

We would likely be in a more rural area if I moved to Canada, so I doubt cost-of-living would be dramatically different. I work in the forest industry. I know my taxes would be higher in Canada, but not proportionately to the cost of healthcare in the U.S. Ultimately what keeps in the U.S. is wondering who is going to keep our other kids when our son has to spend a random week in the hospital. I really don't have much to complain about, and really I'm not complaining at all. Just pointing out that someone in our situation would likely have an easier time reaching FIRE in Canada (since that is the question that was asked). As others have said, earning potential is higher in the U.S. if you're into climbing the corporate ladder. I am not an especially motivated employee, so that really isn't much of a concern from my perspective. Just happy to move up the technical career path as high as it will take me. I have zero interest in management.

[scottish]

You wanna live up here, you have to like winter activities such as skiing, or maybe winter camping.    A lot of people play hockey in the winter, pickup on the rink in the neighourhood park is pretty inexpensive.   Staying cooped up indoors all winter is a recipe for depression.

Canadian health care is not all-inclusive.   I have a nasty auto-immune disorder that may require treatment with an expensive biologic drug, around 25-30K per year.   Public health insurance may or may not cover the drug, so we're budgeting an extra 500K in our retirement number for this.

Finally, i think you'll find that staples (food, gasoline, electricity, ...) are quite a bit more expensive here than in the US.

[snacky]

Immigrating with a disabled family member may not be possible for you. https://globalnews.ca/news/3620003/family-in-shock-after-permanent-residency-denied-by-immigration-canada-due-to-daughters-disability/

[kenmoremmm]

OP here:
if my wife gets the work visa, with long term goal of permanent residency, and i move with her and work for a company in the US (paying necessary US taxes), would i also owe taxes in CAD for my income?

and yes, we like snow, though living in seattle has softened us considerably. goal would be to live in small to medium sized town, near ski resort and other mountain environs. we're closet dirtbag climbers, so we're hoping to impart that lifestyle on our kids (whether they take it or not, well...) and living somewhere like this would be more agreeable for that.

oh, and no lockdown drills for a kindergardener would be okay i guess.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Immigrating with a disabled family member may not be possible for you. https://globalnews.ca/news/3620003/family-in-shock-after-permanent-residency-denied-by-immigration-canada-due-to-daughters-disability/

Interesting. And what a sad story for that family who moved there with no indication that anything was willing with their daughter.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Immigrating with a disabled family member may not be possible for you. https://globalnews.ca/news/3620003/family-in-shock-after-permanent-residency-denied-by-immigration-canada-due-to-daughters-disability/

Interesting. And what a sad story for that family who moved there with no indication that anything was willing with their daughter.

Also, it appears that your article is old news: The government will no longer be allowed to reject permanent resident applications from those with serious health conditions or disabilities.

[snacky]

Immigrating with a disabled family member may not be possible for you. https://globalnews.ca/news/3620003/family-in-shock-after-permanent-residency-denied-by-immigration-canada-due-to-daughters-disability/

Interesting. And what a sad story for that family who moved there with no indication that anything was willing with their daughter.

Also, it appears that your article is old news: The government will no longer be allowed to reject permanent resident applications from those with serious health conditions or disabilities.

Good.

Thank you for fact checking.

[MrThatsDifferent]

Probably depends on your personal circumstances. We pay 25% of our gross wages in healthcare costs, and despite what people like MrThatsDifferent might think, there's nothing I can do about it as a resident of the U.S. So there's little doubt that Canada would be a better location for us. We have no plan to seek employment in Canada, but it's on the table if the situation here ever becomes untenable.

Wait, are your FIREd? Cause that was the question. MMM does not contribute 25% of his expenses to healthcare. Have you read his post on it? It means strutting your money in a way to make your income low, but it can be done (also taking a plan with a high deductible and staying as healthy as possible).

You don't get it, do you? I have a child who was born with birth defects/disabilities. FIREing will not make that go away, and there was nothing my family could have done to "stay as healthy as possible". Shit happens and you can't control everything.

We are on a high deductible plan, because there is literally no other option between both my employer and my wife's. We pay $15,000/year in health insurance premiums and $10,000/year to hit the OOP Max (which we have hit every year since he was born). If we FIRE'd, we could reduce our insurance costs by insuring through ACA, but we'd still be on the hook for the OOP Max. So we cannot FIRE any time soon, because $10,000/year in out-of-pocket healthcare costs requires an additional $250,000 a year in stash. So we must keep working until we can save the extra quarter million, and meanwhile we will continue to earn too much to qualify for subsidized insurance. Hence, $15,000/year in premiums.

Do you understand now why it would be easier for us to FIRE in Canada? Cause that was the question.

Sorry to hear about your personal situation but the question wasn’t whether it would be easier for you, Mississippi Mustache, to FIRE, the question was is it easier to FIRE in the US or Canada. My answer is the US in general, even though Canada has universal healthcare. Happy for you to disagree as much as you want.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Sorry to hear about your personal situation but the question wasn’t whether it would be easier for you, Mississippi Mustache, to FIRE, the question was is it easier to FIRE in the US or Canada. My answer is the US in general, even though Canada has universal healthcare. Happy for you to disagree as much as you want.
[/quote]

If I was the only person in the world with high healthcare costs, I wouldn't have brought it up. But it's a relatively common situation and deserves mention. I came here to offer a broader perspective, not to seek sympathy.

[nancyjnelson]

As Prairie Mustache already alluded, folks looking to relocate to Canada should keep in mind that health care in Canada is, for all intents and purposes, provincial rather than national.  This means different levels of care in different areas.  If health care is the drawing card, you might want to look into this before relocating to a specific area.

I lived in Ottawa for three years while working for the U.S. Embassy.  While routine and preventative care was quite good, emergency care was not.  In one case someone working for the embassy went to the emergency room of the main hospital in great pain and was diagnosed with acute appendicitis.  She was told, however, that since her bulging, inflamed appendix had not yet burst, there would be no operation until the next morning - it was about 11:00 pm and the hospital would have had to call in a surgeon.  "But if your appendix bursts, we'll call someone in."

Someone else from the embassy ended up driving the woman 2 1/2 hours south across the border so she could get her appendix out in Watertown, NY (she had a successful operation at 3:00 a.m.).  The surgeons there were slack-jawed that any medical establishment would not have considered acute appendicitis to be an immediate and life threatening emergency.  This is just one case of several.

Colleagues working for the U.S. Consulate in Vancouver, however, were almost ridiculously happy with the quality of the health care in British Columbia.

[Viking Thor]

A lot of people that are healthy tend to have huge blind spot / lack of awareness on healthcare risks and need for quality insurance.

I have a family member who needs a $8k/ month drug, forever, but has had good health ongoing for many years while taking the medication. Fortunately insurance covers after the out of pocket max. Not that it matters but since some will wonder, this person has very healthy habits and nothing conceivable they could have done to avoid this issue.

There are drugs more expensive than this.

It's not just overweight, smokers, etc that have health issues. They can pop up out of nowhere and sometimes can be treated successfully in a way that would bankrupt those without adequate insurance.

[soccerluvof4]

My brother has cerebral palsy and living in a country with publicly funded healthcare probably saved my parents tens of thousands of dollars when he was younger and required physical/occupational/speech therapy. Not everything was covered of course, but it helps a whole hell of a lot when you have circumstances out of your control. Some provinces have better services than others since healthcare is provincially managed. I know a few families with kids with disabilities who moved to Alberta for this reason.

We have strongly considered moving to Canada. I've worked for two companies with offices in Canada, and I could likely get back on with either company if we decided to pursue it. Ultimately, we've decided that it's not worth it to leave behind our families and friends. I could probably handle the winter (I have a sister in Wisconsin and she seems to be handling it ok), but would be tough to make it without having the help of our families.

Seems like you have done your homework on this. I live in Wisconsin as well as your sister as you mentioned and there are parts of Canada that are no Different.  Not knowing alot about it other than I hear Vancouver is warmer but very expensive, Toronto would be similar in climate but again expensive for your situation and medical needs how does the cost of living compare. In other words when you do all the math if its more expensive to live there does it still workout for you. Because then yea it seems to make alot of sense.

We would likely be in a more rural area if I moved to Canada, so I doubt cost-of-living would be dramatically different. I work in the forest industry. I know my taxes would be higher in Canada, but not proportionately to the cost of healthcare in the U.S. Ultimately what keeps in the U.S. is wondering who is going to keep our other kids when our son has to spend a random week in the hospital. I really don't have much to complain about, and really I'm not complaining at all. Just pointing out that someone in our situation would likely have an easier time reaching FIRE in Canada (since that is the question that was asked). As others have said, earning potential is higher in the U.S. if you're into climbing the corporate ladder. I am not an especially motivated employee, so that really isn't much of a concern from my perspective. Just happy to move up the technical career path as high as it will take me. I have zero interest in management.

No i get ya! If things don't improve here in Healthcare across the board I think everyone no matter what there situation needs to at the very least look at different options. And seemingly with already whats been shared on here from people that live there Its not a one size fits all. I.E.- I would never of thought it was "provincial rather than national".

[CanuckExpat]

if my wife gets the work visa, with long term goal of permanent residency, and i move with her and work for a company in the US (paying necessary US taxes), would i also owe taxes in CAD for my income?

Probably yes: you would most certainly be considered a Canadian tax resident. Canada taxes world wide income based on residency.
It would get complicated as I think you would get credits for taxes paid to the US, and in the US you would get credits for taxes paid to Canada?

Someone with more expertise should speak up.

[Metalcat]

I love visiting Canada but no way do I want to live in that fucking cold all year round. If MMM can manage low cost health care during FIRE, so can you.

???

It's not cold here year round.
I was once in Miami in late July and it was only marginally hotter than where I live in Canada.

Where I live, summers are scorching hot and winters can get extremely cold. But no, it's definitely not cold year round unless you go way up north.

[MrThatsDifferent]

I love visiting Canada but no way do I want to live in that fucking cold all year round. If MMM can manage low cost health care during FIRE, so can you.

???

It's not cold here year round.
I was once in Miami in late July and it was only marginally hotter than where I live in Canada.

Where I live, summers are scorching hot and winters can get extremely cold. But no, it's definitely not cold year round unless you go way up north.

You’re right, I was exaggerating. I love Montreal but was told it’s only nice for 2 months out of the year.

[Metalcat]

I love visiting Canada but no way do I want to live in that fucking cold all year round. If MMM can manage low cost health care during FIRE, so can you.

???

It's not cold here year round.
I was once in Miami in late July and it was only marginally hotter than where I live in Canada.

Where I live, summers are scorching hot and winters can get extremely cold. But no, it's definitely not cold year round unless you go way up north.

You’re right, I was exaggerating. I love Montreal but was told it’s only nice for 2 months out of the year.

Yeah, one month in spring and one month in fall, because the summer is so stinking hot. I've had heat stroke far more often than I've had frostbite.

The problem with Montreal isn't the cold, the problem is the city has terrible infrastructure for dealing with the snow.
That said, snow really isn't a big deal if you don't have to commute for work.

Snow and ice are HUGE issues when you have to get somewhere in rush hour and it takes you triple the time of white knuckling your way through terrible conditions with a jam-packed road of angry, impatient late people all trying not to skid into each other at high speeds.

Snow is a pain in the ass when you end a long work day only to have to dig your car out of a few feet of snow and recruit a coworker to help push your car out and just pray that the roads are clear enough to get home.

Otherwise, winter just isn't a big deal if you can choose when to go outside. Those mega snow days aren't too frequent, and snow removal tends to take care of it within a day, so unless you have to get somewhere during rush hour, it's no big deal. 

The coldest days tend to be the sunniest and the least snowy, and a bright sunny cold walk in the glistening snow is actually delightful.

Winter doesn't make it hard to live here, winter makes it hard to work here. So post-FIRE, it shouldn't be an issue.

[FIRE Artist]

Snow and ice are HUGE issues when you have to get somewhere in rush hour and it takes you triple the time of white knuckling your way through terrible conditions with a jam-packed road of angry, impatient late people all trying not to skid into each other at high speeds.

Snow is a pain in the ass when you end a long work day only to have to dig your car out of a few feet of snow and recruit a coworker to help push your car out and just pray that the roads are clear enough to get home.

Otherwise, winter just isn't a big deal if you can choose when to go outside. Those mega snow days aren't too frequent, and snow removal tends to take care of it within a day, so unless you have to get somewhere during rush hour, it's no big deal. 

The coldest days tend to be the sunniest and the least snowy, and a bright sunny cold walk in the glistening snow is actually delightful.

Winter doesn't make it hard to live here, winter makes it hard to work here. So post-FIRE, it shouldn't be an issue.

exactly this.  I used to think that I would move when I retire, but have realized that I don't hate winter, I hate commuting in winter.  A big realization.  I am an introvert with inside hobbies so hibernating during the worst of winter is not a hardship at all for me. 

[CanuckExpat]

If you're not feeling badass enough to bike in -40 C check out Victoria BC. pretty mild winters (mean of 5 C in January) and less rainy than the mainland.

I just recently found out they have palm trees in Victoria BC. They are probably keeping this a secret to stop the exodus of people in

[cloudsail]

If you're not feeling badass enough to bike in -40 C check out Victoria BC. pretty mild winters (mean of 5 C in January) and less rainy than the mainland.

I just recently found out they have palm trees in Victoria BC. They are probably keeping this a secret to stop the exodus of people in

Lol, last time I checked it probably has more to do with the skyrocketing real estate prices.

Vancouver Island is a top retirement location for us, but I don't think we can afford Victoria. Maybe Nanaimo?

[robartsd]

Also, it appears that your article is old news: The government will no longer be allowed to reject permanent resident applications from those with serious health conditions or disabilities.

I don't know what the cost threshold is, but apparently a medical condition can still be too expensive to permit permanent residency:

The changes will amend the definition of social services by removing references to special education, social and vocational rehabilitation services and personal support services.

Ottawa is also tripling the cost threshold at which an application for permanent residency can be denied on medical grounds.

[Prairie Stash]

Also, it appears that your article is old news: The government will no longer be allowed to reject permanent resident applications from those with serious health conditions or disabilities.

I don't know what the cost threshold is, but apparently a medical condition can still be too expensive to permit permanent residency:

The changes will amend the definition of social services by removing references to special education, social and vocational rehabilitation services and personal support services.

Ottawa is also tripling the cost threshold at which an application for permanent residency can be denied on medical grounds.

about $20k per year. According to the link the old rules affect about 1,000 cases of 177,000 economic imigrants. The new rules are expected to eliminate the majority of inadmissiblity cases.

[Prairie Stash]

Generally speaking, of course.

We're considering expatting to the great white north (2 kids in tow)

I have 2 kids, I receive CCB (Child Benefit) of $5000/year (reduced because of my household income). At lower income (in FIRE) I will receive $5000/child till they reach age 18. FIRE with kids is easier in Canada. I estimate my children will bring $140,000 to my bank account to offset daycare, sports and all other child costs.

In FIRE I have no health care costs, Canada provides certainty.

Education is similiar to State Universities. My Tuition was $6000/year circa 2000, my children will stay at home and attend my Alma Mater. Total direct University cost is under $30K for a 4 year degree. To save for school I will save $20K/child and the government will grant me a match of $4000.Then I'm done with University savings unless I choose to save more (I think I'll hit $25k/child, I'll have extra cash because of that CCB). That's 8-10 years of saving $2500/year, its pretty easy considering I can just use that CCB money.

Median Wage:
"The median total income of Canadian households rose from $63,457 in 2005 to $70,336 in 2015, a 10.8% increase." Statscan
"The U.S. Census Bureau reported in September 2017 that real median household income was $59,039 in 2016"
in USD the median CDN house earns $52,424 compared to $59k. THeres not a lot of difference in wages. in 2011 we were at parity, the median CDN household had higher income that year. Its not much different. Want to compare taxes? try comparing taxes between states first and then get

Overall, I think I've had it easier reaching FIRE in Canada than my doppelganger in the US. The big difference is that I think Canada is more generous towards kids and healthcare. To those without kids, the answer may be different.

[kenmoremmm]

i read this article and it feels like a gut punch on the idea of going to canada:
https://backcountrycanadatravel.com/why-moving-to-canada-is-a-bad-idea/

i will say that the 50+ comments all sound eerily similar. coordinated effort or legit comments?

[snacky]

i read this article and it feels like a gut punch on the idea of going to canada:
https://backcountrycanadatravel.com/why-moving-to-canada-is-a-bad-idea/

i will say that the 50+ comments all sound eerily similar. coordinated effort or legit comments?

That looks like a lot of cherry picking stats and has a weird beef with immigrants. Canada is far from perfect but isn't what that article depicts. We have low unemployment, for example. And people are becoming less friendly? Where?
Nonsense.

[Wrenchturner]

i read this article and it feels like a gut punch on the idea of going to canada:
https://backcountrycanadatravel.com/why-moving-to-canada-is-a-bad-idea/

i will say that the 50+ comments all sound eerily similar. coordinated effort or legit comments?

That looks like a lot of cherry picking stats and has a weird beef with immigrants. Canada is far from perfect but isn't what that article depicts. We have low unemployment, for example. And people are becoming less friendly? Where?
Nonsense.

Yeah, Hoth isn't really that bad once you're used to it :)

Actually I think those comments raise some good points if you consider that they're on the cynical end, and some of them are incredibly cynical.  I do feel a crab-in-a-bucket mentality in Canada.  It doesn't seem to be homogenized as a culture either.  I think because Canada never really forged an identity the way the US did.  Just speculating.  Maybe that experience is limited to the workplace.

And Mississippi Mudstache, it appears those terms for permanent residence could be subject to change.  So that might be worth considering.  Maybe you could find a consultant of some type that could help advise?  Hard to say if they would have an unbiased opinion though.  Or an extended visit of some kind?

Honestly I think the worst thing about Canada is the lack of sunshine in the winter.  But it's not like I've lived in the US to compare.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

i read this article and it feels like a gut punch on the idea of going to canada:
https://backcountrycanadatravel.com/why-moving-to-canada-is-a-bad-idea/

i will say that the 50+ comments all sound eerily similar. coordinated effort or legit comments?

That looks like a lot of cherry picking stats and has a weird beef with immigrants. Canada is far from perfect but isn't what that article depicts. We have low unemployment, for example. And people are becoming less friendly? Where?
Nonsense.

Yeah, Hoth isn't really that bad once you're used to it :)

Actually I think those comments raise some good points if you consider that they're on the cynical end, and some of them are incredibly cynical.  I do feel a crab-in-a-bucket mentality in Canada.  It doesn't seem to be homogenized as a culture either.  I think because Canada never really forged an identity the way the US did.  Just speculating.  Maybe that experience is limited to the workplace.

And Mississippi Mudstache, it appears those terms for permanent residence could be subject to change.  So that might be worth considering.  Maybe you could find a consultant of some type that could help advise?  Hard to say if they would have an unbiased opinion though.  Or an extended visit of some kind?

Honestly I think the worst thing about Canada is the lack of sunshine in the winter.  But it's not like I've lived in the US to compare.

I'm not moving to Canada, or even seriously considering it. I've looked into in the past, but it would take some major negative changes to our situation here before we would give it another look.

[Wrenchturner]

I'm not moving to Canada, or even seriously considering it. I've looked into in the past, but it would take some major negative changes to our situation here before we would give it another look.

I guess I skipped reading that post.  In any case I wish you and yours the best.

[John Galt incarnate!]

no way do I want to live in that fucking cold all year round.

While Canada's beauty appeals to me it's MUCH TOO COLD during winter for me to ever consider moving there.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

I'm not moving to Canada, or even seriously considering it. I've looked into in the past, but it would take some major negative changes to our situation here before we would give it another look.

I guess I skipped reading that post.  In any case I wish you and yours the best.

Thanks. We got seriously worried when Trump was elected, because I had just accepted a job with a small employer who was only able to offer us health insurance due to some significant industry changes brought about by the ACA. With Trump and the GOP's promise to repeal the law, we were in serious risk of losing coverage and basically being completely screwed. I put some feelers out with my contacts in ON and NB and did some preliminary research on making the move, but it became pretty quickly apparent that repealing the law would be easier said than done. We still pay way more for healthcare than we would in Canada (or any other developed nation), but we're doing well enough that we wouldn't want to leave our family support system unless absolutely necessary.

[Metalcat]

no way do I want to live in that fucking cold all year round.

While Canada's beauty appeals to me it's MUCH TOO COLD during winter for me to ever consider moving there.

Pfft.
Wimp.

Lol, but in all seriousness, the cold really isn't bad at all. With proper gear, even temperatures colder than Mars are totally comfortable to walk around outside for a few hours. I used to think I hated the cold until I learned how to dress properly.

The cold is literally not a problem.

Now, the 5 inches of ice that have turned my condo complex and most sidewalks into a death trap and the horrid driving conditions and days with ~100 accidents and the accompanying delays on the roads while you grip your steering wheel and pray to a God you don't believe in as you slide straight through a major intersection on a red because you're brakes were like "OH YOU THINK SO?? NOT TODAY BITCH!"

Yeah...sometimes winter absolutely sucks.

This has been one of the worst winters in our city, but it wasn't because of the cold.

The sweltering 40C/104F summer heat with soup-like humidity is a lot harder to handle IMO. Some days it's like living in a burning hot sauna. It can be very hard to breathe and literally dangerous to try and walk or bike somewhere.

So yeah, if you are sensitive about weather, don't move here.

As for the criticisms in the website posted I just laughed and thought "what kind of paradise was this dude expecting Canada to be?" I mean, we're a country, with all sorts of fucked up shit, like literally every other country...