Downsides about MMM's ideas

[Indexer]

Downside?

When people complain about being broke I can't join their pity party.
When the same people start talking about the new restaurant with $20 craft cocktails I have nothing to say.
When the same people start talking about the new show that came on cable last night I have nothing to say.
When the same people start talking about the commercial in that show I have nothing to say. 
When the same people talk about their brand new BWM I have nothing to say.
When the same people complain they can't make the BMW payment I have nothing to say.
When the same people complain about being broke I can't join their pity party.

When I retire I get to skip entire DECADES of listening to this. 

Thank you MMM!

[Mr Dorothy Dollar]

It is a slow predictable self deprecating way to graduate wag-slave-dome. It is not the only way or fast.

The only real downside is that it is simplified to a degree and that it does not deal with all aspects.
No finical wizardry taught here.
No interest rate games.
No manufactured spending.
No credit card or bank games.

Incorporating even just a few of these things can make or save you thousands a year. If you want to know how to do those things you must look elsewhere because that is not valued here. Here we value re-using bags not opening a bank account at $100-250 per account. Here we devote endless pages of information to biking something a 7-year-old can do and few if any to shopping around for the best interest rates which some adults struggle with. Houses are treated like a negative asset yet many Californian millionaires were minted from the real estate boom and land lording can provide income for people with less marketable skills.

Overall, I feel people should supplement MM with other sources which vary on topic concentration.

[Dicey]

It is a slow predictable self deprecating way to graduate wag-slave-dome. It is not the only way or fast.

The only real downside is that it is simplified to a degree and that it does not deal with all aspects.
No finical wizardry taught here.
No interest rate games.
No manufactured spending.
No credit card or bank games.

Incorporating even just a few of these things can make or save you thousands a year. If you want to know how to do those things you must look elsewhere because that is not valued here. Here we value re-using bags not opening a bank account at $100-250 per account. Here we devote endless pages of information to biking something a 7-year-old can do and few if any to shopping around for the best interest rates which some adults struggle with. Houses are treated like a negative asset yet many Californian millionaires were minted from the real estate boom and land lording can provide income for people with less marketable skills.

Overall, I feel people should supplement MM with other sources which vary on topic concentration.

Overall, I feel people should avoid trolls.

[Mr Dorothy Dollar]

It is a slow predictable self deprecating way to graduate wag-slave-dome. It is not the only way or fast.

The only real downside is that it is simplified to a degree and that it does not deal with all aspects.
No finical wizardry taught here.
No interest rate games.
No manufactured spending.
No credit card or bank games.

Incorporating even just a few of these things can make or save you thousands a year. If you want to know how to do those things you must look elsewhere because that is not valued here. Here we value re-using bags not opening a bank account at $100-250 per account. Here we devote endless pages of information to biking something a 7-year-old can do and few if any to shopping around for the best interest rates which some adults struggle with. Houses are treated like a negative asset yet many Californian millionaires were minted from the real estate boom and land lording can provide income for people with less marketable skills.

Overall, I feel people should supplement MM with other sources which vary on topic concentration.

Overall, I feel people should avoid trolls.

Great reply added a bunch to the conversation. My post was meant to cause conversation but that is not trolling. This place becomes a big echo chamber with only one point of view on few topics. If you want to read the same things over and over just stay on the first page of this post.

[arebelspy]

Great reply added a bunch to the conversation. My post was meant to cause conversation but that is not trolling. This place becomes a big echo chamber with only one point of view on few topics. If you want to read the same things over and over just stay on the first page of this post.

Your ridiculous straw man didn't add anything to the conversation.

[Spud]

Houses are treated like a negative asset yet many Californian millionaires were minted from the real estate boom

Question is, were those people already millionaires before the property boom as a result of other business activities?

The only millionaire I know of personally made about 15 million from selling his third of an IT company, and THEN getting into property.

[deborah]

It is a slow predictable self deprecating way to graduate wag-slave-dome. It is not the only way or fast.

Actually it is fast - how many other ways do you know where there are a large number of people following the guidelines, and by the time they are 30 are graduates from wage-slave-dom?

No finical wizardry taught here.

The astonishingly simple math?

No interest rate games. 

cFIRESIM?

No manufactured spending.

Why is that needed?

No credit card or bank games.

Why is that needed? However, for those who want to do it, it is here.

Something you may have missed is that it is actually a SAFE way to retire early. But maybe you want to drop money the same way that you drop letters.

[cerebus]

We're feeling increasingly cut off from many of the people around us. Most of my wife's family are quite successful and live ridiculous lifestyles (apart from her parents who are 80 and still need to work full time because of a lack of retirement planning). Her one brother owns a successful farm and buys new Keurig machines, kids go on overseas trips, and complains about money like all the time.

Her friends make insane vehicle purchases then moan about the monthly payments. They're always going out for this and that event and we look like the paupers of the social group because we constantly tell them we can't go. Really and truly it feels like everyone around us has lost their freaking minds. Parents offload their kids all day at creches then get maids in because they 'deserve it'. Friends buy vehicles they can't afford because everyone knows you should never own a car that's more than 5 years old, then end up having to sell them before they're paid off and sit with their busted up 2000 Polo that can't fit the family. Then the same people complain that their child got into the bathroom and wasted their $30 hand lotion all over the bathtub, while the husband takes a taxi to work every day (not the nice US taxis, I'm talking about sharing a Toyota minivan with around 15 people for 1 1/2 hours a day with rap music playing and an awful stench, and not sure if the driver will actually kill you). Other friends drive a beautiful X3 and so we think they really have it thick, and then they confide the extent of their credit card debt and it makes my teeth hurt to even think about having that much debt.

The worst part is, there's no cure for it. We can't move anywhere on earth where people are less insane. We're going to the States soon in order to improve our own family's situation, but it's the world capital of ridiculous profligacy. It feels like we're on an island of 2 people.

[Nannooskeeska]

My neighbor has late model Mercedes, Land Rover, Audi and more in her stable. A random conversation led to discussion of a planned new car purchase. When the words "Car payments" entered the conversation, it was all I could do not to roll my eyes.
That's it! Mustachianism has given me an eye-rolling problem!!

Hey, better than a face-punching problem :)

As for my Mustachian downside... now I have trouble accepting offers from my friends to go out to bars and stuff. But luckily I found MMM the same week I turned 21 and I've spent way less on alcohol than I would have otherwise. This stuff is fun!

Also I think one of my friends thinks I'm crazy. I've explained the whole thing to her and she just can't believe it and thinks it's just a phase that I'm going through. Joke's on you Karen, I'll be retired when I'm 30! Ha!

[Zikoris]

The only downside I see is that people think you're nuts. Whether or not that's a problem depends on you.

[mizzourah2006]

Houses are treated like a negative asset yet many Californian millionaires were minted from the real estate boom

Question is, were those people already millionaires before the property boom as a result of other business activities?

The only millionaire I know of personally made about 15 million from selling his third of an IT company, and THEN getting into property.

Really? I know plenty of people that worked mid-level jobs for 25-30 years (UPS manager, firefighters, etc.) and did things MMM people would have a heart attack over (new cars every 3-4 years, boats, lake houses, etc.) and were still easily millionaires by 50.

I guess my downside of MMM is that most posters don't think there can be a middle ground. Sure saving 60-70% of your gross income is awesome. I love reading about people that have the ability to do that, I really do. But like someone else mentioned I love my job and have a very marketable skillset. Do I want to achieve FI, absolutely, but I wouldn't mind taking an extra 3-5 years doing so to go on a few extra vacations, get a little bit of a nicer car, go out to dinner with the wife, spend time out with friends, etc.

[forummm]

Houses are treated like a negative asset yet many Californian millionaires were minted from the real estate boom

Question is, were those people already millionaires before the property boom as a result of other business activities?

The only millionaire I know of personally made about 15 million from selling his third of an IT company, and THEN getting into property.

Really? I know plenty of people that worked mid-level jobs for 25-30 years (UPS manager, firefighters, etc.) and did things MMM people would have a heart attack over (new cars every 3-4 years, boats, lake houses, etc.) and were still easily millionaires by 50.

I guess my downside of MMM is that most posters don't think there can be a middle ground. Sure saving 60-70% of your gross income is awesome. I love reading about people that have the ability to do that, I really do. But like someone else mentioned I love my job and have a very marketable skillset. Do I want to achieve FI, absolutely, but I wouldn't mind taking an extra 3-5 years doing so to go on a few extra vacations, get a little bit of a nicer car, go out to dinner with the wife, spend time out with friends, etc.

That's your choice. Do it if that's what works for you. A bunch of people here are pretty spendy. Others are planning to increase their spending after RE and are working longer now to save up for that. I think the point is that we should all recognize that it's optional and that the hedonic treadmill isn't that fulfilling overall. Certainly some luxuries are very much enjoyed.

[immocardo]

Joke's on you Karen, I'll be retired when I'm 30! Ha!

For some reason this was really funny, Karen was just a perfect name for this post

[Cookie78]

The only downside I see is that people think you're nuts. Whether or not that's a problem depends on you.

I agree with this. It's a 'downside' only as far as you let it be. I go out drinking/eating less often with friends and it takes a little more strategizing to come up with inexpensive date ideas. But I still see my friends at house parties or hiking or we go for walks, and I'm stretching my creative muscles coming up with new inexpensive date ideas. A first date last week met me for a walk and used his bike to get there. Color me impressed. I'm not sure if he's mustacian, but I was comfortable chatting with him about my FIRE plans before we'd even met and he didn't recoil in horror.

Another downside I can think of is that it can be painful to suddenly discover what's possible with FIRE, then look back at all the mistakes you made in the past while you were clueless. But.... not point in regrets. Better late than never.

I guess my downside of MMM is that most posters don't think there can be a middle ground. Sure saving 60-70% of your gross income is awesome. I love reading about people that have the ability to do that, I really do. But like someone else mentioned I love my job and have a very marketable skillset. Do I want to achieve FI, absolutely, but I wouldn't mind taking an extra 3-5 years doing so to go on a few extra vacations, get a little bit of a nicer car, go out to dinner with the wife, spend time out with friends, etc.

This is not the impression I get from 'most posters'. One of the things that I like about this forum is that there is a huge variety of participants. Some are more hard-core than others, there's a huge variety of incomes and ambitions. There are many 'middle ground' posters actively involved and there's nothing wrong with deciding that middle ground works for you. :)

[Nannooskeeska]

Joke's on you Karen, I'll be retired when I'm 30! Ha!

For some reason this was really funny, Karen was just a perfect name for this post

Haha I know right! My roommates and I always yell at her "KAAAAREEENNN" cause it's just such a perfect name!

[mizzourah2006]

Houses are treated like a negative asset yet many Californian millionaires were minted from the real estate boom

Question is, were those people already millionaires before the property boom as a result of other business activities?

The only millionaire I know of personally made about 15 million from selling his third of an IT company, and THEN getting into property.

Really? I know plenty of people that worked mid-level jobs for 25-30 years (UPS manager, firefighters, etc.) and did things MMM people would have a heart attack over (new cars every 3-4 years, boats, lake houses, etc.) and were still easily millionaires by 50.

I guess my downside of MMM is that most posters don't think there can be a middle ground. Sure saving 60-70% of your gross income is awesome. I love reading about people that have the ability to do that, I really do. But like someone else mentioned I love my job and have a very marketable skillset. Do I want to achieve FI, absolutely, but I wouldn't mind taking an extra 3-5 years doing so to go on a few extra vacations, get a little bit of a nicer car, go out to dinner with the wife, spend time out with friends, etc.

That's your choice. Do it if that's what works for you. A bunch of people here are pretty spendy. Others are planning to increase their spending after RE and are working longer now to save up for that. I think the point is that we should all recognize that it's optional and that the hedonic treadmill isn't that fulfilling overall. Certainly some luxuries are very much enjoyed.

I agree, it just seems like on this forum most times I am the proverbial weirdo everyone is referring to when it comes to downsides of MMM in real life.

I guess I don't see my life as a hedonic treadmill yet, perhaps some day. I get to do applied research every day and get paid for it :)

This is not the impression I get from 'most posters'. One of the things that I like about this forum is that there is a huge variety of participants. Some are more hard-core than others, there's a huge variety of incomes and ambitions. There are many 'middle ground' posters actively involved and there's nothing wrong with deciding that middle ground works for you. :)

This may very well be true. Perhaps it's just the extreme posts that stand out to me. For example, the person on the previous page that is getting a new car and got a 0% interest offer so decided not to pay cash for it. A poster followed up and basically told him after considering depreciation of the new car he is paying much more in interest than the poster thought. Why post that, especially in that manner? To me that says they think the person is an idiot for buying a new car.

If all decisions were made on pure economic efficiency we would all walk or run everywhere (haha bikes, lol), live in 2-300 sq ft homes, and eat beans and rice with the occasional meat scraps. 

[fartface]

Another downside is that it makes it more awkward around other people when they want to do expensive things or expect that you will do expensive things for them. This could be hard for dating, being around coworkers socially, and family.

This is an accurate "downside" for me also. I've been drifting away from long-time, consumer driven friends. Last summer five of us spent our 40th together on Martha's Vineyard. I went to every expensive restaurant they suggested and participated in the itinerary they (mostly) created without complaint. The only thing I didn't do was get my hair and makeup professionally done for a country club event we all attended. When I look at the pictures you sure cannot tell who spent $100 on hair and make up and who didn't. Anyway, my frugality on that one only affected me. I paid my fair share for all the 'group-tivities'. And, although the trip was fun, I could have done w/out most of the pricey shit people think they have to do just to enjoy themselves. The best part of MV for me was the day we rented bikes for $25 a day. We bought our own alcohol, crackers, grapes and cheese and biked around snacking and drinking and taking in the sights. The expensive lobster dinners and cocktails? 'Meh. Total waste of time and money.

Anyway, I got invited back this summer. One friend even offered to pay for my flight to Boston. Nope. Not interested. Been there, done that. If any of them want to visit my place and have good conversation + home-brew around a campfire, they're always welcome. 'Eh, maybe I'm getting to old too...I dunno.

[MoneyCat]

I biggest downside I have found so far is that I get really sweaty riding my bicycle long-distance when it's hot out.

[AJ]

Let's face it.  The downside is that many people think you're weird.

This. It bothers me more than I expected, actually. I've always been unconventional eccentric a bit odd, so I'm used to that part. But I've been realizing more lately how isolating it is to not have a social circle that shares your values. Between being Mustachian and polyamorous, it feels like we have almost no common ground with "normal" people. Our poly friends are unapologetic spendthrifts, our frugal friends are conservatively religious, and our family is both! It is draining trying to have conversations with people that don't "get" you, and it would be nice to have just one person (other than DH) that shared my same value system. </pityparty>

[sol]

and it would be nice to have just one person (other than DH) that shared my same value system. </pityparty>

Boo fucking hoo hoo.  You and you're wonderful partner are healthy wealthy and wise to such an advanced degree that nobody else can rival your awesomeness.  Yea, that's real rough for you all right.

[AJ]

and it would be nice to have just one person (other than DH) that shared my same value system. </pityparty>

Boo fucking hoo hoo.  You and you're wonderful partner are healthy wealthy and wise to such an advanced degree that nobody else can rival your awesomeness.  Yea, that's real rough for you all right.

Had the cadence of an insult, but it was a compliment. Thanks, I guess?

[Ferrisbueller]

Lots of interesting replies as usual. Me and Mrs bueller are not hard core like some of you on here. I really do respect people who can save 40/40/60% or more of their salaries but that just ain't us.

We like coffees out, restaurants, going to concerts, theatre,  good wine etc just a lot less that we used to.  We've dialed down our discretionary spending in a big way like one $4 coffee per day instead of three, or just a main and a glass of wine instead of 2 or 3 courses and a bottle!

For us that's how MMMs ideas work, he's not dogmatic - it's not "save every fucking penny or else you're a dumb shit". I know the implications of our discretionary spending (longer to FiRE) and we're comfortable with it. This means we go out as much as we ever did (just spending much less) so we don't feel isolated or weird like some have mentioned on the thread. Beautiful balance is the name of the game.

[cerebus]

For us that's how MMMs ideas work, he's not dogmatic - it's not "save every fucking penny or else you're a dumb shit". I know the implications of our discretionary spending (longer to FiRE) and we're comfortable with it. This means we go out as much as we ever did (just spending much less) so we don't feel isolated or weird like some have mentioned on the thread. Beautiful balance is the name of the game.

You can do with it what you like but it's hard to argue that MMM is 'balanced'. He's a multimillionaire with a $25k annual budget. I can't speak on his behalf but I'm pretty sure he means business with frugality as an ethical lifestyle choice.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Dicey]

Let's face it.  The downside is that many people think you're weird.

This. It bothers me more than I expected, actually. I've always been unconventional eccentric a bit odd, so I'm used to that part. But I've been realizing more lately how isolating it is to not have a social circle that shares your values. Between being Mustachian and polyamorous, it feels like we have almost no common ground with "normal" people. Our poly friends are unapologetic spendthrifts, our frugal friends are conservatively religious, and our family is both! It is draining trying to have conversations with people that don't "get" you, and it would be nice to have just one person (other than DH) that shared my same value system. </pityparty>

While I wouldn't be too quick to judge, it kinda seems like polyamory and mustachianism would tend to be mutually exclusive by nature. No wonder you feel isolated. Seriously, life is all about making choices. The two you've chosen are not exactly conventional. Your choices are to live with it or change something.

[mxt0133]

This may very well be true. Perhaps it's just the extreme posts that stand out to me. For example, the person on the previous page that is getting a new car and got a 0% interest offer so decided not to pay cash for it. A poster followed up and basically told him after considering depreciation of the new car he is paying much more in interest than the poster thought. Why post that, especially in that manner? To me that says they think the person is an idiot for buying a new car.

Poster here who pointed out the depreciation aspect of financing a new car.  I actually do not think that buying a new car is idiotic.  I was just being argumentative with regard to the poster who stated that investing the money instead of paying cash was better, mathematically anyway.  I do recognize that not every decision is an economic one, hell my current car was I bought new and I did pay cash!  But I am honest with myself of why I made that decision because I liked the style and invested a lot of time of finding one where the dealer gave me 20% off the MSRP.  Economically I could have spent half the money financed at 4%, invested the remaining cash and gotten 100%+ return back in 2010.  But I would have probably been divorced or in the dog house for a few months and would have caved into buying an even more expensive car.  We all need to pick our battles to win the war.

[Cookie78]

Let's face it.  The downside is that many people think you're weird.

This. It bothers me more than I expected, actually. I've always been unconventional eccentric a bit odd, so I'm used to that part. But I've been realizing more lately how isolating it is to not have a social circle that shares your values. Between being Mustachian and polyamorous, it feels like we have almost no common ground with "normal" people. Our poly friends are unapologetic spendthrifts, our frugal friends are conservatively religious, and our family is both! It is draining trying to have conversations with people that don't "get" you, and it would be nice to have just one person (other than DH) that shared my same value system. </pityparty>

Meeee tooooooo!! But I can talk about poly stuff with poly people and mustachian stuff with the few frugal people I know, or who know of my vague plans. My family knows both, so that helps a bit, but they all live far away. The only person who really knows and understands is my boyfriend, but I'm sure he gets tired of hearing about it.

While I wouldn't be too quick to judge, it kinda seems like polyamory and mustachianism would tend to be mutually exclusive by nature. No wonder you feel isolated. Seriously, life is all about making choices. The two you've chosen are not exactly conventional. Your choices are to live with it or change something.

I'm very curious why you think they would be mutually exclusive by nature.

[Erica/NWEdible]

Between being Mustachian and polyamorous, it feels like we have almost no common ground with "normal" people. Our poly friends are unapologetic spendthrifts, our frugal friends are conservatively religious, and our family is both!

Meeee tooooooo!! But I can talk about poly stuff with poly people and mustachian stuff with the few frugal people I know, or who know of my vague plans. My family knows both, so that helps a bit, but they all live far away. The only person who really knows and understands is my boyfriend, but I'm sure he gets tired of hearing about it.

Proof that all Venn Diagrams are possible on the interwebs - you guys should start a Poly thread in Meet-Up or Off-Topic, and see how many other Poly Mustachians are out there, feeling all alone. :)

[Cookie78]

Between being Mustachian and polyamorous, it feels like we have almost no common ground with "normal" people. Our poly friends are unapologetic spendthrifts, our frugal friends are conservatively religious, and our family is both!

Meeee tooooooo!! But I can talk about poly stuff with poly people and mustachian stuff with the few frugal people I know, or who know of my vague plans. My family knows both, so that helps a bit, but they all live far away. The only person who really knows and understands is my boyfriend, but I'm sure he gets tired of hearing about it.

Proof that all Venn Diagrams are possible on the interwebs - you guys should start a Poly thread in Meet-Up or Off-Topic, and see how many other Poly Mustachians are out there, feeling all alone. :)

I know there are quite a few. I am pleasantly surprised every time I see it come up in this forum. Within a week of joining the forum I remember seeing a poly thread come up. :)

[cerebus]

This may very well be true. Perhaps it's just the extreme posts that stand out to me. For example, the person on the previous page that is getting a new car and got a 0% interest offer so decided not to pay cash for it. A poster followed up and basically told him after considering depreciation of the new car he is paying much more in interest than the poster thought. Why post that, especially in that manner? To me that says they think the person is an idiot for buying a new car.

Poster here who pointed out the depreciation aspect of financing a new car.  I actually do not think that buying a new car is idiotic.  I was just being argumentative with regard to the poster who stated that investing the money instead of paying cash was better, mathematically anyway.  I do recognize that not every decision is an economic one, hell my current car was I bought new and I did pay cash!  But I am honest with myself of why I made that decision because I liked the style and invested a lot of time of finding one where the dealer gave me 20% off the MSRP.  Economically I could have spent half the money financed at 4%, invested the remaining cash and gotten 100%+ return back in 2010.  But I would have probably been divorced or in the dog house for a few months and would have caved into buying an even more expensive car.  We all need to pick our battles to win the war.

The depreciation of new cars doesn't bother me so much as just the actual cost of it. You're spending 3 times what you could be paying for something that would be basically the same, minus a certain ineffable scent and some wearing in. Not only that, you're setting yourself up for a lifetime of rotating new cars every 5-7 years once the newness fades. It looks like a chump's game if you're someone who values every penny of your money.

[Cycling Stache]

So, it appears another downside to Mustachianism is finding out that you're not as Mustachian as others!

I actually bought a new car before I found out about Mustachianism, and although I probably wouldn't now, I can understand why I did it.  I bought a Honda Odyssey new that had been on the lot for almost a year, and I paid about $500 over what I believed the dealer invoice was (based on Consumer Reports, etc.).  We kept our last Honda Accord (also bought new) 10 years before that, and we figure we'll keep this one at least as long.  And it's our only car, so we ride in together, or I take Metro when we have to go separately. 

These forums are tough because there are almost always people who are even better with the financial decisions, and it can make it tough to feel like you're doing a good job even if you've made vast improvements, if you haven't nailed it perfectly.  It's probably like someone being excited that they lost 10 pounds, and pointing out they're still not a model.

Ultimately, I think the information here is great, and the level of enthusiasm is like having a workout partner to keep you going on days you're not really feeling it.  But I also think it's important to note that progress can sometimes be celebrated, even if there's still room for improvement.

So an upside of Mustachianism is securing your financial future.  A downside might be risk of feeling depressed that you're not already a super-Mustachian! 

[forummm]

Let's face it.  The downside is that many people think you're weird.

This. It bothers me more than I expected, actually. I've always been unconventional eccentric a bit odd, so I'm used to that part. But I've been realizing more lately how isolating it is to not have a social circle that shares your values. Between being Mustachian and polyamorous, it feels like we have almost no common ground with "normal" people. Our poly friends are unapologetic spendthrifts, our frugal friends are conservatively religious, and our family is both! It is draining trying to have conversations with people that don't "get" you, and it would be nice to have just one person (other than DH) that shared my same value system. </pityparty>

While I wouldn't be too quick to judge, it kinda seems like polyamory and mustachianism would tend to be mutually exclusive by nature. No wonder you feel isolated. Seriously, life is all about making choices. The two you've chosen are not exactly conventional. Your choices are to live with it or change something.

I'm not seeing why they would be mutually exclusive. Maybe you meant a different term. They are both less common than other ways of life. But they may even be more common to exist together. If people who are willing to live in one way that is less common, perhaps they will be more willing to adopt other relatively uncommon ways of living. Just a thought--I have no data to test this idea.

[sunday]

This may very well be true. Perhaps it's just the extreme posts that stand out to me. For example, the person on the previous page that is getting a new car and got a 0% interest offer so decided not to pay cash for it. A poster followed up and basically told him after considering depreciation of the new car he is paying much more in interest than the poster thought. Why post that, especially in that manner? To me that says they think the person is an idiot for buying a new car.

Poster here who pointed out the depreciation aspect of financing a new car.  I actually do not think that buying a new car is idiotic.  I was just being argumentative with regard to the poster who stated that investing the money instead of paying cash was better, mathematically anyway.  I do recognize that not every decision is an economic one, hell my current car was I bought new and I did pay cash!  But I am honest with myself of why I made that decision because I liked the style and invested a lot of time of finding one where the dealer gave me 20% off the MSRP.  Economically I could have spent half the money financed at 4%, invested the remaining cash and gotten 100%+ return back in 2010.  But I would have probably been divorced or in the dog house for a few months and would have caved into buying an even more expensive car.  We all need to pick our battles to win the war.

Poster here who bought the new car with 0% financing and put the rest in VTSAX. ;) Anyway, not to belabor a point, I'm still happy with my decision.

One real downside I've found is that I'm less apt to do expensive activities with friends and family. We are high income earners and people expect us to do everything they want to do. We like and love our family/friends, even if they are not"mustachian" as we are (and we're not really that much, especially compared to so many others here). So we take the concept in stride, doing some of the activities and forgoing others, so we can maintain our relationships. Due to our income, we're able to maintain a good savings rate, and just in general try not to sweat the small things. Sometimes when friends suggest a long weekend getaway to a foreign country, we just have to say no thank you, but have a great time and tell us about it over drinks when you get back.

[Cookie78]

Let's face it.  The downside is that many people think you're weird.

This. It bothers me more than I expected, actually. I've always been unconventional eccentric a bit odd, so I'm used to that part. But I've been realizing more lately how isolating it is to not have a social circle that shares your values. Between being Mustachian and polyamorous, it feels like we have almost no common ground with "normal" people. Our poly friends are unapologetic spendthrifts, our frugal friends are conservatively religious, and our family is both! It is draining trying to have conversations with people that don't "get" you, and it would be nice to have just one person (other than DH) that shared my same value system. </pityparty>

While I wouldn't be too quick to judge, it kinda seems like polyamory and mustachianism would tend to be mutually exclusive by nature. No wonder you feel isolated. Seriously, life is all about making choices. The two you've chosen are not exactly conventional. Your choices are to live with it or change something.

I'm not seeing why they would be mutually exclusive. Maybe you meant a different term. They are both less common than other ways of life. But they may even be more common to exist together. If people who are willing to live in one way that is less common, perhaps they will be more willing to adopt other relatively uncommon ways of living. Just a thought--I have no data to test this idea.

This is my thought also. I also do not have any data, except self and I've often wondered if stepping outside some of the boundaries of cultural norms makes it easier for me to step outside other boundaries of cultural norms. Also all the poly people I know are open to other types of differences. Some of them are spendy, but they aren't pushing their spendiness or any other attributes on others.

[deborah]

This may very well be true. Perhaps it's just the extreme posts that stand out to me. For example, the person on the previous page that is getting a new car and got a 0% interest offer so decided not to pay cash for it. A poster followed up and basically told him after considering depreciation of the new car he is paying much more in interest than the poster thought. Why post that, especially in that manner? To me that says they think the person is an idiot for buying a new car.

Poster here who pointed out the depreciation aspect of financing a new car.  I actually do not think that buying a new car is idiotic.  I was just being argumentative with regard to the poster who stated that investing the money instead of paying cash was better, mathematically anyway.  I do recognize that not every decision is an economic one, hell my current car was I bought new and I did pay cash!  But I am honest with myself of why I made that decision because I liked the style and invested a lot of time of finding one where the dealer gave me 20% off the MSRP.  Economically I could have spent half the money financed at 4%, invested the remaining cash and gotten 100%+ return back in 2010.  But I would have probably been divorced or in the dog house for a few months and would have caved into buying an even more expensive car.  We all need to pick our battles to win the war.

The depreciation of new cars doesn't bother me so much as just the actual cost of it. You're spending 3 times what you could be paying for something that would be basically the same, minus a certain ineffable scent and some wearing in. Not only that, you're setting yourself up for a lifetime of rotating new cars every 5-7 years once the newness fades. It looks like a chump's game if you're someone who values every penny of your money.

Depends upon why you buy a new car. I buy a new car because the vast majority of old cars have been hire cars and I want a car that has been treated decently. I see no reason to sell a car before it becomes unreliable. I had my last car for 16 years, and expect to have this one for as long.

[sunday]

I bought mine because the tax credit is only given to new buyers, and the used ones cost more than the new one minus the tax credit.

[forummm]

I bought mine because the tax credit is only given to new buyers, and the used ones cost more than the new one minus the tax credit.

Me too. It was better than keeping my paid off car.
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/nissan-leaf-almost-paying-me-to-drive-it/

[Dicey]

Let's face it.  The downside is that many people think you're weird.

This. It bothers me more than I expected, actually. I've always been unconventional eccentric a bit odd, so I'm used to that part. But I've been realizing more lately how isolating it is to not have a social circle that shares your values. Between being Mustachian and polyamorous, it feels like we have almost no common ground with "normal" people. Our poly friends are unapologetic spendthrifts, our frugal friends are conservatively religious, and our family is both! It is draining trying to have conversations with people that don't "get" you, and it would be nice to have just one person (other than DH) that shared my same value system. </pityparty>

While I wouldn't be too quick to judge, it kinda seems like polyamory and mustachianism would tend to be mutually exclusive by nature. No wonder you feel isolated. Seriously, life is all about making choices. The two you've chosen are not exactly conventional. Your choices are to live with it or change something.

I'm not seeing why they would be mutually exclusive. Maybe you meant a different term. They are both less common than other ways of life. But they may even be more common to exist together. If people who are willing to live in one way that is less common, perhaps they will be more willing to adopt other relatively uncommon ways of living. Just a thought--I have no data to test this idea.

I've never thought about the two categories together before this post. I probably could have been clearer, so I'll try to elaborate a bit. If my logic is dead wrong, feel free to enlighten me.

You know the axiom that two can live as (or more) cheaply than one? In the case of polyamory, you have more than one partner. That just has to be more expensive.  Think of birthdays, gift-giving holidays, vacations, insurance and medical costs. Ditto for housing, utilities, food, etc. More partners=more overhead. That's what I was thinking about when I wrote the comment above.

[dude]

Pardon my ignorance, but "polyamorous" is just a euphemism for swingers, right?

[EllieStan]

Pardon my ignorance, but "polyamorous" is just a euphemism for swingers, right?

Swingers are in a monogamous relationship, but will agree to have different sexual partners.
Polyamorous are committed in more than one relationship. From my understanding, they don't ''swing'' partners, they get involved (emotionally) with each of their partners. Thus the  word polyamorous (love).

[Cookie78]

Let's face it.  The downside is that many people think you're weird.

This. It bothers me more than I expected, actually. I've always been unconventional eccentric a bit odd, so I'm used to that part. But I've been realizing more lately how isolating it is to not have a social circle that shares your values. Between being Mustachian and polyamorous, it feels like we have almost no common ground with "normal" people. Our poly friends are unapologetic spendthrifts, our frugal friends are conservatively religious, and our family is both! It is draining trying to have conversations with people that don't "get" you, and it would be nice to have just one person (other than DH) that shared my same value system. </pityparty>

While I wouldn't be too quick to judge, it kinda seems like polyamory and mustachianism would tend to be mutually exclusive by nature. No wonder you feel isolated. Seriously, life is all about making choices. The two you've chosen are not exactly conventional. Your choices are to live with it or change something.

I'm not seeing why they would be mutually exclusive. Maybe you meant a different term. They are both less common than other ways of life. But they may even be more common to exist together. If people who are willing to live in one way that is less common, perhaps they will be more willing to adopt other relatively uncommon ways of living. Just a thought--I have no data to test this idea.

I've never thought about the two categories together before this post. I probably could have been clearer, so I'll try to elaborate a bit. If my logic is dead wrong, feel free to enlighten me.

You know the axiom that two can live as (or more) cheaply than one? In the case of polyamory, you have more than one partner. That just has to be more expensive.  Think of birthdays, gift-giving holidays, vacations, insurance and medical costs. Ditto for housing, utilities, food, etc. More partners=more overhead. That's what I was thinking about when I wrote the comment above.

I can understand where you are coming from, but if two can live more cheaply than one, then couldn't three or four live more cheaply than two? More partners means the possibility for more people to cover the costs.

Also polyamorous relationships and dynamics can be vastly different from each other. There's no 'typical way' to do it. Some could be set up completely mustachian, others could be set up in ways that are mutually exclusive from mustachianism. I just think the comment that they are mutually exclusive 'by nature' is wrong.

[barbaz]

About two months ago, we get got our yearly utility bills, and we and our neighbors each got about 200€ back. She was totally excited: "imagine all the things I can buy with this money", while I was more like "whatever... now I have to adjust my savings plan to get rid of that extra money".

So for me Mustachianism now means that I have to pretend to get exited over small amounts of money so that my neighbors don't feel offended.

[Cycling Stache]

About two months ago, we get got our yearly utility bills, and we and our neighbors each got about 200€ back. She was totally excited: "imagine all the things I can buy with this money", while I was more like "whatever... now I have to adjust my savings plan to get rid of that extra money".

So for me Mustachianism now means that I have to pretend to get exited over small amounts of money so that my neighbors don't feel offended.

It gives birth to a new expression--"fake it when you make it!"

[katesilvergirl]

Downside:  You actually have to think about who you are, and can't define yourself by your career forever.

Yes! That has been a weird and stunning sidebar in working toward early retirement (especially coming out of academia).

[Dicey]

Let's face it.  The downside is that many people think you're weird.

This. It bothers me more than I expected, actually. I've always been unconventional eccentric a bit odd, so I'm used to that part. But I've been realizing more lately how isolating it is to not have a social circle that shares your values. Between being Mustachian and polyamorous, it feels like we have almost no common ground with "normal" people. Our poly friends are unapologetic spendthrifts, our frugal friends are conservatively religious, and our family is both! It is draining trying to have conversations with people that don't "get" you, and it would be nice to have just one person (other than DH) that shared my same value system. </pityparty>

While I wouldn't be too quick to judge, it kinda seems like polyamory and mustachianism would tend to be mutually exclusive by nature. No wonder you feel isolated. Seriously, life is all about making choices. The two you've chosen are not exactly conventional. Your choices are to live with it or change something.

I'm not seeing why they would be mutually exclusive. Maybe you meant a different term. They are both less common than other ways of life. But they may even be more common to exist together. If people who are willing to live in one way that is less common, perhaps they will be more willing to adopt other relatively uncommon ways of living. Just a thought--I have no data to test this idea.

I've never thought about the two categories together before this post. I probably could have been clearer, so I'll try to elaborate a bit. If my logic is dead wrong, feel free to enlighten me.

You know the axiom that two can live as (or more) cheaply than one? In the case of polyamory, you have more than one partner. That just has to be more expensive.  Think of birthdays, gift-giving holidays, vacations, insurance and medical costs. Ditto for housing, utilities, food, etc. More partners=more overhead. That's what I was thinking about when I wrote the comment above.

I can understand where you are coming from, but if two can live more cheaply than one, then couldn't three or four live more cheaply than two? More partners means the possibility for more people to cover the costs.

Also polyamorous relationships and dynamics can be vastly different from each other. There's no 'typical way' to do it. Some could be set up completely mustachian, others could be set up in ways that are mutually exclusive from mustachianism. I just think the comment that they are mutually exclusive 'by nature' is wrong.

Yes, Cookie78 (and Forummm if I'm following the quotes accurately), I agree with you.  It is wrong because it's not quite what I said. Here's the exact quote: "...it kinda seems like polyamory and mustachianism would tend to be mutually exclusive by nature."

[EarlyRetirementGuy]

Our biggest downside has been trying to convince our friends/family to do frugal activities.

For instance my parents will always insist that we go out for a fancy meal when they visit, whereas we'd much rather just have a home cooked meal in our own dining room with plenty of cheap store-bought wine and no nasty bill at the end.

Similarly; friends will always want to go out to the pub every week. I've managed to avoid most of the 'why aren't you drinking these overpriced drinks?' type complaints by offering to drive them home and so sticking to cokes and water all night. Still don't know why they want to stand around in a cramped bar and music too loud you can't hear eachother all evening.. Would much prefer some pints of homebrew in the living room!

[meadow lark]

I think polyamory would be great for saving money.  Especially if all of the members of the family had well-paid jobs.  Unfortunately, even a frugality argument  for polyamory was met with a resounding "no!" from my wife. :-)

[MoneyCat]

Polyamory seems to be the newest thing for atheist vegans who train in crossfit.


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[Kriegsspiel]

I, for one, am willing to stud for any lady wanting to poly out.

[Mikhial]

While I spend more than many members here, my biggest problem is that I don't need the extra push to be cheap. I like hanging out with friends and going out. If I think too much about money I'll only stay home. It also causes me to look cheap in others people's eyes and probably gives me more stress about spending money.

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[forummm]

FIRE may be a lifestyle that leads itself to be more conducive to poly. One common reason why people don't have multiple SOs is that it takes so much extra time to maintain that relationship. If you don't have a job it might make that much easier. And you'd be young enough that you might enjoy it more.