Author Topic: Donating $$ to your alma mater  (Read 22048 times)

Lagom

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #100 on: September 16, 2016, 09:50:58 AM »
We're getting wordy and I only had time to skim for now, but to rebut a claim made twice above, I never said universities were special or somehow more deserving of giving than other causes. Quite the contrary. Pretty much my entire point in this thread has been to respond to those who have dismissed university giving as worthless, citing things like "I don't owe them," "I had a bad experience," "they will waste my money on things I disagree with," etc.

I think it's great if you've found other causes you find more rewarding to support. But if you are going to attack universities and anyone who chooses to support them, you need much better arguments than the above (which Ender, at least, has provided to some extent). Also, if you choose to read into my words and feel judged, that's on you. I have been very explicit that I only judge people who give to nothing whatsoever. Me, I have been giving an unfortunately low 1-2% of my income in recent years as I have been dealing with a hair on fire debt emergency until very very recently (yay!). I am stoked that I now am in a place I can ratchet that up a bit. And guess what, most of that giving will NOT go to my alma mater.

Also, regarding the research, come on man. Are you really saying almost all worthwhile research happens outside of universities? For one easy example off the top of my head, look up the Scripps Institution of Oceanography at UC San Diego. It is literally considered the top non governmental agency for climate research in the entire world (and better than all but one or two government agencies). I would call that a critical issue and there are few, if any, places you can better direct your giving if that topic concerns you. Besides that, medical breakthroughs happen all the time as a result of university research, as do advances in things like renewable energy, robotics, machine learning, etc., etc. Many of these happen in partnership with industry, perhaps, but you have a highly pessimistic view of what exactly happens in the ivory tower. You may have toured one wing of one sausage factory, but not all brats are created equal. Of course universities are historically bad at marketing to anyone but prospective students or sports fans, so it's to be expected I suppose.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 12:41:03 PM by Lagom »

TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #101 on: September 16, 2016, 12:21:15 PM »
I will not be donating for similar reasons others have mentioned...

My only add is the school I went to one year after graduating sent me an INVOICE for a donation I never agreed to make. Definitely rubbed me the wrong way.

If they sent it across state lines I believe that is a felony.  They probably worded it correctly to avoid violating the law on a technical basis, but I, an anonymous stranger on the internet, will affirm your feelings as being justified.

Lagom

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #102 on: September 16, 2016, 12:38:51 PM »
Here is a ranking list that is rather interesting and somewhat relevant to this topic:

http://washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide?ranking=2016-rankings-national-universities

Washington Monthly rates schools according to a metric of the "public good" they create. You can argue with their methodology or whether they are just ranking polished turds all you like, but I do enjoy the different perspective compared to the increasingly meaningless US News lists.

Here is where they explain their methodology (which does include things like cost of attendance and graduation rates among low income attendees, incidentally):

http://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/septemberoctober-2016/introduction-a-different-kind-of-college-ranking-8/

JCfire

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #103 on: September 16, 2016, 02:15:13 PM »
I choose 1 oversees charity from this website: https://www.thelifeyoucansave.org/Where-to-Donate to donate to each year).  To me putting a roof over a person's head, feeding a family so that they don't starve to death, etc. is a much better use of my money than helping build a shiny new library that will attract new students or even contributing to a need-based scholarship at my alma mater.  It definitely beats building the "prestige" of my university. 

Couldn't have said it any better myself!

People donate for lots of different reasons -- most people do not consider the question "where can my money do the most good for other people", as shocking as that is.  The biggest reasons by far that people give to one cause over another are availability (i.e. did they call/mail/solicit me), identification (i.e. is the cause germane to my personal history or a hobby or my profession or some other part of my identity), and emotion (i.e. sponsoring a child who you feel empathy for, get pictures of etc instead of funding the exact same cause with no name/picture attached).

I try to donate EXCLUSIVELY based on where I think my money can do the most good for other people.  The Life You Can Save is a good place to source reasonable recommendations.

boarder42

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #104 on: September 16, 2016, 02:45:14 PM »
I plan to start a scholarship fund at both my high school and my college with the piles of money I'll have later in life.

I got basically a free ride to school through multiple scholarships  and I'd like to pay it back many times over to many future engineers.

I don't donate when they call bc I'd rather control the building of the wealth and then put it in a trust to auto pay scholarships while invested and earningnpiles of money.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 02:47:36 PM by boarder42 »

Lagom

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #105 on: September 16, 2016, 04:07:47 PM »
People donate for lots of different reasons -- most people do not consider the question "where can my money do the most good for other people", as shocking as that is.  The biggest reasons by far that people give to one cause over another are availability (i.e. did they call/mail/solicit me), identification (i.e. is the cause germane to my personal history or a hobby or my profession or some other part of my identity), and emotion (i.e. sponsoring a child who you feel empathy for, get pictures of etc instead of funding the exact same cause with no name/picture attached).

I try to donate EXCLUSIVELY based on where I think my money can do the most good for other people.  The Life You Can Save is a good place to source reasonable recommendations.

You're not wrong, but you also presume it's easy to determine where your money will "do the most good for other people." After all, some causes might one day literally save millions of lives (e.g. climate change or some medical research). Others will save a smaller number of people today. Others help champion fuzzy ideas like "equality," in various forms. Many of those that seem good in the short term can even be problematic in the long term, while many that focus on the long term might end up never being of value. So which is "the most good?" That site you link has many different options. Which is best?

Universities often have very similar programs as well, many of which I would argue are at least as efficacious and/or solve problems like hunger or clean water while also educating (e.g. programs sending engineering students to the third world to use their skills to solve those problems). Does giving to an org with which you personally identify somehow taint the process, regardless of the proven results?

I strongly dislike the attitude some seem to have that they have cracked the code to giving in the most effective way possible, and by implication those who give in other ways are lazy or have somehow been hoodwinked. If you are giving, you are doing good and I laud you regardless of what cause you choose to champion.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 04:09:19 PM by Lagom »

LeRainDrop

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #106 on: September 16, 2016, 04:30:27 PM »
Here is a ranking list that is rather interesting and somewhat relevant to this topic:

http://washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide?ranking=2016-rankings-national-universities

Washington Monthly rates schools according to a metric of the "public good" they create. You can argue with their methodology or whether they are just ranking polished turds all you like, but I do enjoy the different perspective compared to the increasingly meaningless US News lists.

This source is very interesting to me.  I've gotta say, since you warned us up front these rankings were according to how much "public good" they create, I was not all too surprised to see my college university ranked much lower here than it is in US News & World Report.  Not surprising at at was that school's abysmal "social mobility rank."  I swear, back in the early 2000s, like 75% of the cars you'd see in the student lots were new-looking BMWs.

This source's information meshes pretty well with my "happy feelings" about each of my alma mater, where this college I feel the most disconnected from, and therefore donate the least, as compared to my law school (second place) and high school (without a doubt first place).  I also want to acknowledge the really good argument set out by Ender in particular, which is helping me realize how little my college is deserving of my donation money.  Of course, this leaves aside all my other charitable giving (money and time), which is a much larger piece of the philanthropy pie than my alumni giving is.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 04:32:25 PM by LeRainDrop »

marble_faun

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #107 on: September 16, 2016, 04:57:03 PM »
Did anyone else see the story of the mustachian librarian who amassed $4 million and willed it all to his alma mater, the University of New Hampshire (where he also worked)?  The university is planning to spend $1 million of the gift on a video scoreboard for the football stadium! And only $100,000 is going to the library.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/09/16/university-to-buy-1-million-football-scoreboard-with-thrifty-librarians-money-outraging-critics/

I'm generally pro-donation, but it kills me to imagine this man driving an old car around, being as frugal as possible for decades, only to have the university blow his gift on something so frivolous.

They justified it by saying he liked to watch football on TV while in a nursing home in the last months of his life.

If universities want donations, they really need to be better than this. 

LeRainDrop

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #108 on: September 16, 2016, 05:05:55 PM »
Did anyone else see the story of the mustachian librarian who amassed $4 million and willed it all to his alma mater, the University of New Hampshire (where he also worked)?  The university is planning to spend $1 million of the gift on a video scoreboard for the football stadium! And only $100,000 is going to the library.

There's an MMM thread dedicated to that story here.

Edit: Just learned how to embed the link within the text :-)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 05:35:53 PM by LeRainDrop »

marble_faun

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #109 on: September 16, 2016, 05:17:42 PM »
Ah.  Should have known the forum would already be on that. :-)

Lagom

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #110 on: September 16, 2016, 05:24:08 PM »
This source is very interesting to me.  I've gotta say, since you warned us up front these rankings were according to how much "public good" they create, I was not all too surprised to see my college university ranked much lower here than it is in US News & World Report.  Not surprising at at was that school's abysmal "social mobility rank."  I swear, back in the early 2000s, like 75% of the cars you'd see in the student lots were new-looking BMWs.

This source's information meshes pretty well with my "happy feelings" about each of my alma mater, where this college I feel the most disconnected from, and therefore donate the least, as compared to my law school (second place) and high school (without a doubt first place).  I also want to acknowledge the really good argument set out by Ender in particular, which is helping me realize how little my college is deserving of my donation money.  Of course, this leaves aside all my other charitable giving (money and time), which is a much larger piece of the philanthropy pie than my alumni giving is.

Yeah, I actually think it's totally valid to note that some schools really do provide little to nothing worth supporting. But not all of them, is all I'm saying. Hell, my alma mater is near the top of this particular list, and yet despite my defense of college giving, my own philanthropic pie also allocates a relatively small slice towards them.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #111 on: September 16, 2016, 08:42:51 PM »
When I look at higher ed, I see a complete lack of accountability, a complete disregard for student money, and a loss of focus on actual education.  Because of these reasons, I've become an advocate for major cuts to higher education funding and donations.  That is the only way schools will be forced to prioritize.
Universities aren't about education. Higher education is about signalling, you show prospective employers that you have invested $100K in "education" so can be relied on to follow the rules. The more the university charges the more value the degree has for this purpose - so tuition has risen


SnackDog

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #112 on: September 17, 2016, 12:36:20 AM »
Even if one accepted the idea that universities were the best place in the world to make charitable donations and change lives, what makes you think your alma mater is the optimal one to which to donate? Have you researched them all? Don't you think your dollars might go farther supporting a third world university? Or even just a school in a less privileged part of America?

People just give for nostalgic reasons or to support sports. A few even give to get their name in a newsletter or n a building to show off to others.  They are, by and large, putting very little thought into their donations.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #113 on: September 17, 2016, 01:52:03 AM »
Posting b'cus I should read through this thread eventually, see if there are any persuasive posts that move the needle.  Like the character in the movie Tell Me How I Die, I also wonder 'why am I saving Humanity again?' sometimes.  And yet, I do feel a pull toward giving back to the nexus of my success.  My moonshot base was my alma mater and I can only hope it gives others these great opportunities I've experienced for at least another generation due to a little largess on my part.  There are much, much worse things that money does and can do.

chasesfish

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #114 on: September 17, 2016, 04:51:35 AM »
I'm one of the rare ones that's made a couple of small donations back to the university.  Here are a few points:

1) The general sentiment on this forum is accurate, the % of alumni that donate back to universities are very small (10-30%) depending on school and its usually not high on the list of charities

2) Your donations are not going to the University, they are going to a foundation or separate department with the intention of providing perpetual support for parts of the university that aren't state/tuition funded.  Universities do a terrible job of explaining this and with some of the obscene spending being funded through tuition increases/funding increases, its really bad optics for the foundations trying to raise the money.

3) You can designate this towards programs.  I happen to designate any and all of my donations towards their student managed investment portfolio program.  I participated in this and the experience was outstanding and something that couldn't happen without the foundation's support at the time.

4) As a donor, you should figure out what the foundation is doing with the money.  If they are just amassing a war-chest of money and not distributing the investment earnings back into scholarships and programs, then get educated and voice your concern about that when they talk to you about donations.

View each phone call as an opportunity to push for change - I'd love to see these schools that have $10+bil foundations use a 4% withdraw rate and give more back to the students/educators.

On a side note, we also make a small donation toward's my wife's school's athletic department.  We get enjoyment out of their sports teams :)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2016, 04:53:41 AM by chasesfish »

Bicycle_B

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #115 on: September 17, 2016, 06:47:10 AM »
I'm one of the rare ones that's made a couple of small donations back to the university.  Here are a few points:

1) The general sentiment on this forum is accurate, the % of alumni that donate back to universities are very small (10-30%) depending on school and its usually not high on the list of charities

2) Your donations are not going to the University, they are going to a foundation or separate department with the intention of providing perpetual support for parts of the university that aren't state/tuition funded.  Universities do a terrible job of explaining this and with some of the obscene spending being funded through tuition increases/funding increases, its really bad optics for the foundations trying to raise the money.

3) You can designate this towards programs.  I happen to designate any and all of my donations towards their student managed investment portfolio program.  I participated in this and the experience was outstanding and something that couldn't happen without the foundation's support at the time.

4) As a donor, you should figure out what the foundation is doing with the money.  If they are just amassing a war-chest of money and not distributing the investment earnings back into scholarships and programs, then get educated and voice your concern about that when they talk to you about donations.

View each phone call as an opportunity to push for change - I'd love to see these schools that have $10+bil foundations use a 4% withdraw rate and give more back to the students/educators.

On a side note, we also make a small donation toward's my wife's school's athletic department.  We get enjoyment out of their sports teams :)

Great points, Chasesfish. 

Thanks also to the poster who put up the Washington Monthly link.  That was new and useful information to me.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #116 on: September 17, 2016, 03:14:51 PM »
1) The general sentiment on this forum is accurate, the % of alumni that donate back to universities are very small (10-30%) depending on school and its usually not high on the list of charities

You need to broaden your range -- one of my schools hovers around 45% alumni donate in a year, and another always exceeds 50%.  Otherwise your points are all well taken.  I participate in alumni giving every year, though it comprises only a small part of my charitable giving.

Lagom

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #117 on: September 17, 2016, 06:49:12 PM »
1) The general sentiment on this forum is accurate, the % of alumni that donate back to universities are very small (10-30%) depending on school and its usually not high on the list of charities

You need to broaden your range -- one of my schools hovers around 45% alumni donate in a year, and another always exceeds 50%.  Otherwise your points are all well taken.  I participate in alumni giving every year, though it comprises only a small part of my charitable giving.

50%+ is extremely uncommon. According to US News, only 9 universities have accomplished this, and 8 of those are small liberal arts schools.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/2015/10/20/10-universities-where-the-most-alumni-donate

Average participation rate among all universities is below 10% (https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/01/28/2014-record-year-higher-ed-donations)

I know alumni giving is a relatively small part of the US News ranking equation, but I wonder how much schools hovering in the single digits are hurt by that fact, not that it's an especially important consideration for me personally.

TomTX

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #118 on: September 17, 2016, 09:01:38 PM »
Fuck no. In fact, they owe me $3k, plus 20 years of interest by fucking me over on a scholarship.

"Oh, we didn't mean what we wrote you before you accepted. That total we sent you in writing and didn't correct until after school started? We totally didn't mean that. It's less."

LeRainDrop

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #119 on: September 17, 2016, 09:13:09 PM »
1) The general sentiment on this forum is accurate, the % of alumni that donate back to universities are very small (10-30%) depending on school and its usually not high on the list of charities

You need to broaden your range -- one of my schools hovers around 45% alumni donate in a year, and another always exceeds 50%.  Otherwise your points are all well taken.  I participate in alumni giving every year, though it comprises only a small part of my charitable giving.

50%+ is extremely uncommon. According to US News, only 9 universities have accomplished this, and 8 of those are small liberal arts schools.

Yeah, I realize that level of participation is uncommon, but it does happen.  50%+ is my law school specifically -- I don't give to the university as a whole.  45% is my high school.

Fuck no. In fact, they owe me $3k, plus 20 years of interest by fucking me over on a scholarship.

"Oh, we didn't mean what we wrote you before you accepted. That total we sent you in writing and didn't correct until after school started? We totally didn't mean that. It's less."

That's terrible!  I don't blame you one bit.

Sailor Sam

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Re: Donating $$ to your alma mater
« Reply #120 on: September 17, 2016, 09:24:13 PM »
I give monthly, and have been for about 8 years. I'm paying back my scholarships. I feel I owe it to the next generation to make sure the funds continue to be available.