Does solar power save money?

[freeazabird]

Any of you use solar power? Is it worth it? I can't get Panels on my roof, do I have other options for solar?

[nobodyspecial]

Generally only worth it domestically if your area offers some sort of bonus feed-in tariff.
Even then you have to worry about whether the government munificence will last for the payback period of the panels.

Otherwise they are only worth considering if you can go completely off-grid and not pay any of the fixed portion of the utility bill, electrical power per unit is ridiculously cheap (assuming you are on the right side of the Atlantic)

[MoneyCat]

It was worth it to me because I got a 30% federal tax rebate on the installation, paid no sales tax for it, and I'm getting 15 years of SRECs from the state of New Jersey to offset the cost. It'll take a total of five years for the solar panels to pay for themselves. In the meanwhile, my monthly utility bills have been only about $2.50 in mandatory fees. All the rest is free, even though we charge a car with the panels. It's a good investment if your state provides good incentives.

[Rhoon]

I'm in an Anti-Solar powered state of Sunny Florida, where the power companies have bought the elected officials and pay next to nothing for extra power generation (2-3cents per kWh). That being said, I still put solar on my roof. Although my excessive power consumption was due to someone hot-wiring the heater in my AC unit; I've gone from $350/mo to near $0, before I pay for the Solar panels ($24K - $8K in tax credits). Net $16K to me and I'm using my previously outrageous Electrical bill budget to pay down the loan. In 5-6 years I will have no more payments to either a loan or electric company.

Since I plan to stay in the house a minimum of 10 years, that's at least 4-5 years of free power. That's worth it to me. It also has the entire neighborhood exploring the option and if a few more convert to solar, that's less money for the power company and better for the environment.

[GuitarStv]

It's worth it for us.  We generate about three grand a year for the next 17 years under the terms of Ontario's micro FIT program.  We will have fully paid off the costs of the solar array by the end of next year.

[Fishindude]

Even with the 30% tax deduction, selling excess energy on the grid, and selling your green energy credits it is a very long payback.
It just needs to be something you "want" to do.

[PatronWizard11]

had mine installed last week.

[Rhoon]

had mine installed last week.

Very nice looking! Too bad that one vent got in the way in the center!

[acroy]

Usually not; I am unaware of any residential installation in US/CAN which is 'worth it' without heavy subsidies.
There may be special cases where electricity is expensive (HI) or if you can perform the installation yourself.

[MoneyCat]

Usually not; I am unaware of any residential installation in US/CAN which is 'worth it' without heavy subsidies.

Everything is subsidized these days. Might as well be something worthwhile being subsidized and the money may as well go to real people instead of corporations.

I read recently that renewable power is going to soon be less expensive to generate than coal plants due to advances in technology and economies of scale.

[GuitarStv]

Even with the 30% tax deduction, selling excess energy on the grid, and selling your green energy credits it is a very long payback.
It just needs to be something you "want" to do.

Run the numbers.  Our payback was in the fifth year, which isn't very long on something that's going to last 20+ years.

[Prairie Stash]

Most companies offer free quotes. I had one done, with all the rebates and fees it had a 20 year payback.

If I could find a place to sell me the stuff as a DIY it would be worth it, half the cost was installation, and would get the payback under 10 years. You don't need an electrician to install panels, it's mostly brute force. Wiring up to the grid is separate and a small part of the process.

I think of solar panels as a type of 25 year bond. What interest rate would you require of a bond to make it attractive?

[MoneyCat]

Most companies offer free quotes. I had one done, with all the rebates and fees it had a 20 year payback.

If I could find a place to sell me the stuff as a DIY it would be worth it, half the cost was installation, and would get the payback under 10 years. You don't need an electrician to install panels, it's mostly brute force. Wiring up to the grid is separate and a small part of the process.

I think of solar panels as a type of 25 year bond. What interest rate would you require of a bond to make it attractive?

It really depends on where you live. If you live in a state that gets a lot of money from the "energy" industries, then you won't get good enough incentives from your state for a solar installation. Lots of state governments are in collusion with their corporate masters in the fossil fuel industry. It's unfortunate too, because a state like Nevada is absolutely perfect for generating solar power, but NV Energy owns their state legislature hook, line, and sinker.

[forummm]

You must have a REALLY long selfie stick.

[BigHaus89]

It depends on where you are located and what subsidies are available. It a lot of cases, it is a break even thing but you don't have to rely on grid power and you know you are generating clean energy.

You can install panels in your yard, but that requires a bit more construction than the roof-mount panels.

[Tyson]

If you have a small area to work with you have to go with high efficiency panels, which are expensive because SunPower is really the only one doing it.  But Solar City is ramping up production for much cheaper high efficiency panels.  When that happens it's going to change the numbers pretty quickly for the better. 

I do think that the best plan is to reduce your energy usage.  Then re-evaluate the need for solar.  Personally I'm waiting for next year when there will be at least one option other than SunPower for high efficiency panels.

From a financial perspective it makes sense if your state allows you to sell your electricity to the power company at the same (or similar) rates that they sell electricity to you at night.  Seems like that would be a pretty fair and obvious trade off.  But some states are jerks about it and allow the power companies to designate your house a "producer" during the day, and thus pay you pennies on the dollar, and then at night you magically transform from a producer to a "consumer" where they charge you full price.  In those cases, it doesn't make sense.

And to the person that said that solar is "subsidized" like it's some sort of dirty problem, I'd point out that houses are also "subsidized" in the exact same way - via tax breaks.  Maybe people should stop buying houses too, since the stinking government helps out in that way?  /snark.

Anyway, see what happens over the next year or so while you ruthlessly cut your consumption.  If the numbers work out in your area, then it's a good idea.  It's also a great way to cut your ties to gas and oil.  Getting an eBike and/or an electric car also helps a lot if that is important to you. 

[Disposaleer]

I just finished installing a 5880w system on my house Monday. I'm waiting for the power company to install the meter so I can flip the switch. I'm in Virginia with no state incentives, but my power company Dominion will buy my production and sRECs for an initial 5 years. The current rate they are paying is 15 cents/kWhr. I'll be buying electricity from them at 11 cents/kWhr. The system cost me about $11k to DIY so after the 30% Federal rebate $7700 net.

I think* our average use at this house will be 800 kWhr/month. I'm having trouble running the numbers right now...case of the Fridays, but I think something like 5-6 year payback.

*We moved into this house in February, numbers are based on old house with gas appliances increased to attempt to account for electric appliances at new house.

[Fishindude]

I wouldn't do a roof install on a shingle roof.
Must be a bunch of fastener penetrations through the roof to hold those panels in place that could lead to eventual leakage, plus shingle roofs last 15-20 years on average so all that stuff will have to be removed and reinstalled at some point making re-roofing much more costly.

[tonysemail]

I wouldn't do a roof install on a shingle roof.
Must be a bunch of fastener penetrations through the roof to hold those panels in place that could lead to eventual leakage, plus shingle roofs last 15-20 years on average so all that stuff will have to be removed and reinstalled at some point making re-roofing much more costly.

Solar installation companies have patented designs to avoid concerns about leakage.
That's one of the questions I had for them too.

Yes, installing on a roof near EOL is not cost effective.
If you're in that situation, you should wait until it's time to re-roof before considering solar.

[mousebandit]

Along the lines of what Prarie Stash said, if you can reduce your usage in the first place - all LED lights, ultra efficient washer and fridge, lose or barely use the dryer and full-sized freezers, non-electric heat, non-electric hot water, everything else on power strips to stop phantom drain - and then watch craigslist for used solar panels, or even just start off with a few cheapies from Harbor Freight, and DIY.  I especially think that it's a good idea to start with a couple of hundred dollars of harbor freight panels and some deep cycle batteries and just get your feet wet, try it out.  You will learn so much, not just about solar power, but about if it's something YOU actually would want.  Not everyone would, and that's okay. 

I think there are two big hurdles with the current view of "going solar," and that is 1) continuing to run your electrical life the way you did in the past, and 2) thinking that going new and professional, full-on is the only option. 

Craigslist doesn't always have solar stuff available, but if you watch, they come up halfway frequently.  DOn't just watch your town, especially if you're in a metro area - watch statewide and bordering states.  If you find a good deal, it's totally worth travel to get them.  Estate sales, especially in rural or hobby-farm areas, can net you a good find.  I'm betting that in the metro areas there would be opportunities to purchase used solar equipment from folks who have tried it and find it's not what they wanted. 

Your heat and your hot water are your two biggest energy draws.  Shift them away from electric.  Again, Craigslist is your friend.  Wood stoves, pellet woodstoves, in-floor radient heating with a non-electric source for heating the water.  Solar water panels (there's a proper term, can't think of it right now, LOL) for heating water.  If you are running a woodstove for heat in winter, and don't get enough sunshine for solar hotwater, consider thermo-siphon hot water heated by the woodstove. 

Seriously, there's TONS of options, and almost always, the most cost-efficient way to utilize them is to go in a little at a time, DIY everything, and buy used.  Yes, the efficiency per watt of used solar panels isn't as high as brand new, but it's still a significantly lower cost to get in, and it will help you fine-tune your usage end of things. 

[GuitarStv]

I wouldn't do a roof install on a shingle roof.
Must be a bunch of fastener penetrations through the roof to hold those panels in place that could lead to eventual leakage, plus shingle roofs last 15-20 years on average so all that stuff will have to be removed and reinstalled at some point making re-roofing much more costly.

Solar installation companies have patented designs to avoid concerns about leakage.
That's one of the questions I had for them too.

Yes, installing on a roof near EOL is not cost effective.
If you're in that situation, you should wait until it's time to re-roof before considering solar.

If you get solar panels on a shingle roof, you will need to remove the panels to replace the roof at some point.  Most shingles aren't going to last more than 20 years, and your solar panels should still be putting out electricity for at least 30 years.

[GrumpyPenguin]

A co-worker just put solar on his house on the Maryland side of the DMV.  He is an expert in financial models and energy costs and has determined a payback time of about 5 years.  Definitely saves him money on an NPV basis.

[kpd905]

So when you are allowed to sell back your excess electricity, what is the limit?  Can you only sell back enough to zero out your usage? 

I just looked at my last bill for electricity and gas, it was $62.  Out of that, 47% was fees that would be paid even if I got my usage to zero.  So for the electricity alone, I could have saved about $15 at the most if I was only allowed to zero out my usage.

[Rollin]

Even with the 30% tax deduction, selling excess energy on the grid, and selling your green energy credits it is a very long payback.
It just needs to be something you "want" to do.

Run the numbers.  Our payback was in the fifth year, which isn't very long on something that's going to last 20+ years.

...and, even if you sell in a few years you have increased the value of the home.

BTW - start here to find out about incentives and other programs in your state:

http://www.dsireusa.org/

[Rollin]

Along the lines of what Prarie Stash said, if you can reduce your usage in the first place - all LED lights, ultra efficient washer and fridge, lose or barely use the dryer and full-sized freezers, non-electric heat, non-electric hot water, everything else on power strips to stop phantom drain - and then watch craigslist for used solar panels, or even just start off with a few cheapies from Harbor Freight, and DIY.  I especially think that it's a good idea to start with a couple of hundred dollars of harbor freight panels and some deep cycle batteries and just get your feet wet, try it out.  You will learn so much, not just about solar power, but about if it's something YOU actually would want.  Not everyone would, and that's okay. 

I think there are two big hurdles with the current view of "going solar," and that is 1) continuing to run your electrical life the way you did in the past, and 2) thinking that going new and professional, full-on is the only option. 

Craigslist doesn't always have solar stuff available, but if you watch, they come up halfway frequently.  DOn't just watch your town, especially if you're in a metro area - watch statewide and bordering states.  If you find a good deal, it's totally worth travel to get them.  Estate sales, especially in rural or hobby-farm areas, can net you a good find.  I'm betting that in the metro areas there would be opportunities to purchase used solar equipment from folks who have tried it and find it's not what they wanted. 

Your heat and your hot water are your two biggest energy draws.  Shift them away from electric.  Again, Craigslist is your friend.  Wood stoves, pellet woodstoves, in-floor radient heating with a non-electric source for heating the water.  Solar water panels (there's a proper term, can't think of it right now, LOL) for heating water.  If you are running a woodstove for heat in winter, and don't get enough sunshine for solar hotwater, consider thermo-siphon hot water heated by the woodstove. 

Seriously, there's TONS of options, and almost always, the most cost-efficient way to utilize them is to go in a little at a time, DIY everything, and buy used.  Yes, the efficiency per watt of used solar panels isn't as high as brand new, but it's still a significantly lower cost to get in, and it will help you fine-tune your usage end of things.

Use this - http://www.searchtempest.com/

[ender]

It's worth it for us.  We generate about three grand a year for the next 17 years under the terms of Ontario's micro FIT program.  We will have fully paid off the costs of the solar array by the end of next year.

I've been thinking about solar too as it feels like something which would be nice to have. I like the idea of minimizing my "grid-ness" and solar is a way to do that.

Our utilities company offers a $500/kW rebate (based on peak generation between 5-6pm in summer) in addition to about 45% total federal/state tax credits. Not sure if they will buyback our electricity but I'm curious now. I'm not 100% sure our home will face the optimal direction though...

The biggest drawback is that we don't really have much electricity usage. The house we're buying has averaged only around $100/month, so that'd be a long payback period if we can't sell it back.

[Rightflyer]

Even with the 30% tax deduction, selling excess energy on the grid, and selling your green energy credits it is a very long payback.
It just needs to be something you "want" to do.

Run the numbers.  Our payback was in the fifth year, which isn't very long on something that's going to last 20+ years.

...and, even if you sell in a few years you have increased the value of the home.

BTW - start here to find out about incentives and other programs in your state:

http://www.dsireusa.org/

Our payback was just over 5 years (10kW microFIT). Definitely one of the best investments we have ever made.

As for increasing the value of the home... We just put our place up for sale. So far we have only had 1 interested party that actually got it. While it will probably add some value, the fact that it does not show on the property appraisal is proving problematic.

[GuitarStv]

So when you are allowed to sell back your excess electricity, what is the limit?  Can you only sell back enough to zero out your usage? 

I just looked at my last bill for electricity and gas, it was $62.  Out of that, 47% was fees that would be paid even if I got my usage to zero.  So for the electricity alone, I could have saved about $15 at the most if I was only allowed to zero out my usage.

For Ontario you can sell as much as your solar array generates, it's not tied to usage at all.

[beltim]

Usually not; I am unaware of any residential installation in US/CAN which is 'worth it' without heavy subsidies.
There may be special cases where electricity is expensive (HI) or if you can perform the installation yourself.

Even without subsidies in a number of locations.  This article identifies a few; as electricity costs vary a lot by state and time it will become worth it in more locations.  I know Massachusetts is one, electricity rates jumping over the last few years.

[KarefulKactus15]

AS a side note.  Did anyones home owners insurance go up after solar?   Ive heard a rumor that Fire fighters wont spray a house with solar panels on the roof.


This is just a wild rumor,  would like to know if anyone else has heard it.....

[nereo]

It's worth it for us.  We generate about three grand a year for the next 17 years under the terms of Ontario's micro FIT program.  We will have fully paid off the costs of the solar array by the end of next year.

I've been thinking about solar too as it feels like something which would be nice to have. I like the idea of minimizing my "grid-ness" and solar is a way to do that.
...The biggest drawback is that we don't really have much electricity usage. The house we're buying has averaged only around $100/month, so that'd be a long payback period if we can't sell it back.

We're also contemplating solar on our next home (current home is an apartment with no roof access).
Ender- one thing to note is if you have a grid-tied system (most common) and the power goes out, you loose power too.  As I understand it, it's a safety feature so power isn't flowing into lines that are 'dead' when crews are working on them.  A few of the inverters offer a manual switch that lets some of the power from the panels to flow into your house - useful for charging electronic devices but unless you have battery storage it will only give you power when it's daylight out.

We are pretty much of the mindset that we want our net power usage to be from renewable sources.  Payback for us (with incentives) is likely 6-9 years, which we find to be completely worth it - over a 20yr period our annual 'return' should beat out bonds by a wide margin. If we wind up getting an electric car in a few years (above average chance) our returns will be even better since our energy consumption will increase.

Perhaps a topic for its own thread, but lately as I've been pondering systems, payback periods etc. I've started wondering about the ethical and societal implications of intentionally buying a system that will supply >100% of our electricity needs.  While optimum 'ROI" seems to be shooting ofr a system that provides ~80% of what you need, economies of scale mean that my cost (watts/$) go down slightly with a larger system - this is largely due to installation costs and hookup fees.  We could conceivably generate 120-150% of our expected power output with the available room on our roof ... have to think about that for a while... 

[Rollin]

Even with the 30% tax deduction, selling excess energy on the grid, and selling your green energy credits it is a very long payback.
It just needs to be something you "want" to do.

Run the numbers.  Our payback was in the fifth year, which isn't very long on something that's going to last 20+ years.

...and, even if you sell in a few years you have increased the value of the home.

BTW - start here to find out about incentives and other programs in your state:

http://www.dsireusa.org/

Our payback was just over 5 years (10kW microFIT). Definitely one of the best investments we have ever made.

As for increasing the value of the home... We just put our place up for sale. So far we have only had 1 interested party that actually got it. While it will probably add some value, the fact that it does not show on the property appraisal is proving problematic.

Agreed. It'll be a buyer who can appreciate it. I had a similiar issue with trying to get the insurance company to give me a wind load/water penetration credit for the spray foam I did in my attic. It didn't fit into their form, so...and I live in Florida where we aren't very progressive on those fronts - including solar. I just think it allows you to get a price that is closer to asking, and makes the property go quicker.

I have solar hot water, which BTW is the best ROI out there for solar, but will lay out my power bills on the kitchen table if I go to sell. These will be put into a graph (color) and shown next to the average home. In other words I will make it clear that the new buyer will be saving about $200/month, or $2,400/year, or $24,000/10 years, or $72,000 over the life of their loan (no including investing that). Maybe in addition to selling the house for a better price I can convert another to MMM! (Likely that the buyer will be a Mustachian already).

[KarefulKactus15]

Part of me wishes some of my major appliances would die out.   Like water heater and HVAC.   There are so many high efficiency options available and the Tax credits seem decent in my state....

But I cant replace perfect working stuff.....

[nereo]

Part of me wishes some of my major appliances would die out.   Like water heater and HVAC.   There are so many high efficiency options available and the Tax credits seem decent in my state....

But I cant replace perfect working stuff.....

don't ignore the option of selling (or even donating) your less efficient appliances.
Consider a car analogy; suppose you own a car that has horrible fuel economy.  At some point it becomes economically worth it to you to sell that car and buy something more fuel efficient.  However your old car 'lives on' with someone else who either can't afford or doesn't care about efficiency.

I've found this particularly true of refrigerators.  Most people have no idea how much an inefficient fridge costs to run - just look at the number of people who keep a fridge in the garage filled with just a dozen or so beers.

[Guses]

Part of me wishes some of my major appliances would die out.   Like water heater and HVAC.   There are so many high efficiency options available and the Tax credits seem decent in my state....

But I cant replace perfect working stuff.....

don't ignore the option of selling (or even donating) your less efficient appliances.
Consider a car analogy; suppose you own a car that has horrible fuel economy.  At some point it becomes economically worth it to you to sell that car and buy something more fuel efficient.  However your old car 'lives on' with someone else who either can't afford or doesn't care about efficiency.

I've found this particularly true of refrigerators.  Most people have no idea how much an inefficient fridge costs to run - just look at the number of people who keep a fridge in the garage filled with just a dozen or so beers.

It depends on your power costs. Where you and I are, there is 0 incentive to reduce energy consumption...

For instance:

We have 3 cooling appliances, a really old chest freezer, and 2 newer refrigerators
Our 1980's era chest freezer costs us a whooping 30$ per year in electricity...
Each refrigerator costs us about 45-60$.

So about 150$ per year to keep a metric crapton of food for a long long time. This cost is less than the minimum monthly charge for keeping us hooked on electricity.

[katsiki]

I can't get Panels on my roof, do I have other options for solar?

This may have been mentioned already but there are ground mount options. 

[GuitarStv]

AS a side note.  Did anyones home owners insurance go up after solar?   Ive heard a rumor that Fire fighters wont spray a house with solar panels on the roof.


This is just a wild rumor,  would like to know if anyone else has heard it.....

It's not substantial.  We pay an additional 25$ a year on home insurance because of the solar panels.

Ender- one thing to note is if you have a grid-tied system (most common) and the power goes out, you loose power too.  As I understand it, it's a safety feature so power isn't flowing into lines that are 'dead' when crews are working on them.  A few of the inverters offer a manual switch that lets some of the power from the panels to flow into your house - useful for charging electronic devices but unless you have battery storage it will only give you power when it's daylight out.

Yes, when you're grid tied they cut your panels off every time there's a power outage.  It's annoying.  The first year we were running there were regular power outages in my neighbourhood due to line upgrades, and it happened enough to eat into our revenue a bit.

[Disposaleer]

Part of me wishes some of my major appliances would die out.   Like water heater and HVAC.   There are so many high efficiency options available and the Tax credits seem decent in my state....

But I cant replace perfect working stuff.....

On the water heater issue; we replaced the 12 year old water heater with a Hybrid GE water heater when we moved in. Original price $999. Used a 10% off coupon at Lowe's and will use the 30% federal rebate. Net ~$630. Estimated $220/year (1830 kWH) to run vs. $555/yr (4622 kWH) for this other standard electric model that cost $395 up-front ($360 after coupon). If you have an older electric model it is probably costing even more to run due to mineral build-up and corrosion. The GE costs $850 in the first year vs. $910 for a standard model and saves $335/year after that.

I did this to help reduce my overall electric usage prior to my solar panel installation. If your state offers additional incentives the deal gets even better.

SN#1 Make sure you get the model made in Kentucky. I read a lot of reviews about the older Chinese models having a lot of issues that were resolved at the Kentucky factory.
SN #2 My in-laws installed a standard electric water heater last year.

http://www.lowes.com/pd/GE-GeoSpring-50-Gallon-Electric-Water-Heater-with-Hybrid-Heat-Pump/3664968
http://www.lowes.com/pd/Whirlpool-50-Gallon-240-Volt-6-Year-Residential-Tall-Electric-Water-Heater/50397578

I don't know if I can justify replacing my 2009 heat pump yet...

[forummm]

AS a side note.  Did anyones home owners insurance go up after solar?   Ive heard a rumor that Fire fighters wont spray a house with solar panels on the roof.


This is just a wild rumor,  would like to know if anyone else has heard it.....

I can't imagine fear of damaging property getting in the way of firefighters doing their job. The fire damages property. Spraying water on it damages the house. Spraying water inside the house damages it more. Smashing down the door damages the house. Tramping around in their boots damages it. They also have no qualms about destroying someone else's car when they block a hydrant.

[nereo]

AS a side note.  Did anyones home owners insurance go up after solar?   Ive heard a rumor that Fire fighters wont spray a house with solar panels on the roof.


This is just a wild rumor,  would like to know if anyone else has heard it.....

I can't imagine fear of damaging property getting in the way of firefighters doing their job. The fire damages property. Spraying water on it damages the house. Spraying water inside the house damages it more. Smashing down the door damages the house. Tramping around in their boots damages it. They also have no qualms about destroying someone else's car when they block a hydrant.

If I ever have a house fire I'm going to tell the firefighters to go ahead and pour water all throughout the house, but to please take their boots off before entering.  I have nice hardwood floors and I don't want them muddied :-P

that photo is awesome; I think I'll use it during out next 'workplace safety' class.

[Disposaleer]

AS a side note.  Did anyones home owners insurance go up after solar?   Ive heard a rumor that Fire fighters wont spray a house with solar panels on the roof.


This is just a wild rumor,  would like to know if anyone else has heard it.....

I can't imagine fear of damaging property getting in the way of firefighters doing their job. The fire damages property. Spraying water on it damages the house. Spraying water inside the house damages it more. Smashing down the door damages the house. Tramping around in their boots damages it. They also have no qualms about destroying someone else's car when they block a hydrant.

If I ever have a house fire I'm going to tell the firefighters to go ahead and pour water all throughout the house, but to please take their boots off before entering.  I have nice hardwood floors and I don't want them muddied :-P

that photo is awesome; I think I'll use it during out next 'workplace safety' class.

It's not about damaging the property, it's about fear of live electricity. Depending on how your system is set up, and what your AHJ requires, you may have to have a disconnect switch on the outside of your house for the firefighters to turn off the system. The labeling requirements can get pretty crazy too.

[PatronWizard11]

You must have a REALLY long selfie stick.

I threw my phone up like 10 times and recorded video to get lucky and capture the perfect angle. j/k I own a drone.

[GuitarStv]

Ooooh . . . one thing that you really need to think about if you live where there's snow and have solar panels . . . that snow comes off HARD, and all at once.  We lost a BBQ, put a pretty huge dent in a patio table, and about 20 ft of gutter came down the first winter after our solar panels went up.

[KarefulKactus15]

You must have a REALLY long selfie stick.

I threw my phone up like 10 times and recorded video to get lucky and capture the perfect angle. j/k I own a drone.

Is that a mcmansion with 2 SUVs in the driveway!?

[Erica]

Any of you use solar power? Is it worth it? I can't get Panels on my roof, do I have other options for solar?

Here's our set up, it cost $4000 initially with the solar panels but my husband put it together himself.

I know the Solar Panels do not need to be on your roof necessarily. House is 1300 sq ft

We have no electricity bills, we live in an off-grid town

[KarefulKactus15]

I dont understand how all these off grid towns have internet!?  Satellite ?

[Erica]

Yes some people have Satellite and some have Cable Internet. Cable internet is located underground. The boxes are located off the main road and placed near homes closer to the downtown. Satellite internet is via one Company but I hear it isn't the greatest. A few people don't have internet so they go to the one commercial building in town to use theirs

[PatronWizard11]

You must have a REALLY long selfie stick.

I threw my phone up like 10 times and recorded video to get lucky and capture the perfect angle. j/k I own a drone.

Is that a mcmansion with 2 SUVs in the driveway!?

1900sq ft, will downsize one day but 2 kids right now. 1 4runner, 05 prius in the garage...my mom is visiting for the summer, rental

[Gerard]

A different angle on this (one that Charles Long gets into in a couple of his books) is that going solar or wind lets you live somewhere that grid access isn't an option. If the power company's gonna charge you $50K to run cable a couple of kilometres to your place in the woods, solar makes sense almost instantly. Especially, as several posters have wisely noted, if you work to reduce your consumption before doing your calculations.

People here using solar: Have you also done major life/power hacks at the same time? Like, going off grid, doing passive solar water heating, using a top-loading fridge, or the like?

[Dicey]

Sorry, haven't read all the comments yet, but this post is so timely I had to chime in...

Our neighbors got solar this year. We're in the middle of a heat wave. We've noticed that their A/C has been running constantly, while we haven't even turned our fans on yet. Why? Um, we just open our windows at night?? My larger house is 72 degrees right now. No chance the A/C's going on, as the heat wave is due to break today.
So, we were discussing this at dinner last night. (We put the G. Foreman grill out on the back porch so as not to heat up the kitchen. Forgot it out there, which made some random raccoons very happy, ugh.) Anyway, the concensus is that SOLAR MAKES YOU SOFT. Can this be true or are we just jealous because we have too many redwood trees to have an effective solar array?