Author Topic: Do you tell people?  (Read 14555 times)

travelbug

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Do you tell people?
« on: January 27, 2013, 12:10:14 AM »
Just curious.

We will be FI in July this year, but are having a difficult time in trying to explain to people what that means.

We are constantly asked: but what will you do for money/work/time...

Sometimes we are telling people that we are taking a year sabbatical and then may start a new business venture.

The few people we have told the truth to have looked at us like we have three heads or argued some obscure financial point with us.

It's very weird and I wondered if it was just our friends and family, or if not, how you (do or would) deal with it?                       


PKFFW

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2013, 12:36:40 AM »
My wife and I don't tell too many people we are even working towards FI.  Any mention of investing is generally met with doom and gloom talk about losing everything and any mention of retiring within 5-10 years is generally scoffed at as impossible or requiring winning lotto.  We don't need the hassle and don't want to feel as we have to defend our choices just because they are different to the norm.

We've learnt to very carefully suss out peoples thoughts on matters of FI and investing before opening up.

sol

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2013, 12:44:20 AM »
Personally, I tell anyone who will listen that I don't intend to work more than a couple of more years.  Including people I know I shouldn't tell, like my boss.

But Joshua Kennon makes some good arguments in favor of "stealth wealth" for the very wealthy.  See here and here.

John74

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2013, 01:08:18 AM »
I see very little upside in telling people about my finances and as such I am a big proponent of stealth wealth.

turtlefield76

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2013, 01:39:14 AM »
nope that's why i'm here posting with you all... :)

Miss Stachio

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2013, 05:56:21 AM »
When I first started learning about FI and seeing that it's possible (esp since I was already used to being frugal) I wanted to share it with all my friends.  I talked with people about investing, early retirement, cheap phone plans, etc. Overwhelmingly the response has been negative, even from the people who refer to themselves as thrifty. I definitely started being eyed with suspicion so I quit sharing so much unless someone expresses interest independently. Luckily my family totally got on board so I can share ideas with them.

BlueMR2

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2013, 06:29:56 AM »
I've tried a few times before in the past, but nobody gets it.  The overwhelming response is along the lines of "why would I want to not buy everything I can right now, I don't care about the future".

DocCyane

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2013, 07:44:58 AM »
Only a handful of people know my true monetary situation. I not only don't tell, but I deliberately mislead, implying I can't afford a smartphone (for example) rather than saying I choose not to piddle away money on a smartphone.

I like the "taking a sabbatical" idea. I'm going to use that.

Folks can get downright mean if they think you have money when they don't OR they think you are judging their financial choices.
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Meadow Lark

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2013, 07:54:32 AM »
I tell a little bit.  But if someone is the type to get jealous I emphasize what I don't have - no smartphone, only one old car, I live in a more modest house than my co-workers.
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arebelspy

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2013, 08:04:08 AM »
Yup, basically everyone I know.

It helps that my FI route (real estate) is much more public. When I'm constantly purchasing a new property, going to show a house to a tenant, etc. then it naturally comes up ("oh yeah, we're planning on accumulating enough in the next five years to be financially independent and stop working" - discussion ensues).

If I was quietly building a large stock portfolio I think I'd still be telling people, but probably not as many would know as quickly as they did, because it wouldn't have been coming up as organically.
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Kriegsspiel

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2013, 08:34:45 AM »
Personally, I tell anyone who will listen that I don't intend to work more than a couple of more years.  Including people I know I shouldn't tell, like my boss.

But Joshua Kennon makes some good arguments in favor of "stealth wealth" for the very wealthy.  See here and here.

Very interesting site there, thanks!

grantmeaname

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2013, 09:01:34 AM »
But Joshua Kennon makes some good arguments in favor of "stealth wealth" for the very wealthy.  See here and here.

I understand what he's saying, and I mostly agree with him, but he's got a very strange worldview. I get the feeling that he views the world from a perspective entirely of people dominating other people ("It is very difficult for people to attempt to attack and control you if they donít know the hidden founts of power and influence you have."). Not to mention his wholly unrealistic view of investing...

Another Reader

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2013, 09:06:15 AM »
His "wholly unrealistic view" of investing made him very wealthy in his 20's.  Can you say your approach has done the same for you?

Skyn_Flynt

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2013, 09:10:30 AM »
Generally keep things private. I may tell someone what percentage I put in my 401k, what my utility bills are, but I don't bring up FI. I may achieve FI a few years earlier, or later, than I expect anyway.

My parents are tightwads that retired a "a bit early" (60 and 62) so at least they get it.

arebelspy

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2013, 09:11:48 AM »
His "wholly unrealistic view" of investing made him very wealthy in his 20's.  Can you say your approach has done the same for you?

You know I like you AR, but this is just a ridiculous question.

If my friend said his investing strategy was to buy lottery tickets, which you then (reasonably) might say is a wholly unrealistic view of investing, and then he won, I could very well say:
Quote
His "wholly unrealistic view" of investing made him very wealthy in his 20's.  Can you say your approach has done the same for you?

That doesn't make his approach valid, or your comment about it being unrealistic invalid.

The fact that it worked does not give us any indication of its validity.
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Honest Abe

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2013, 09:17:25 AM »
I've been reading the blog in question this morning.... Lots of nice tidbits on there, definitely not something I subscribe to wholesale.

I drive a car to work, doesn't mean there's nothing I can learn from MMM. :)

Crash87

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2013, 09:22:41 AM »
My stache isn't very big right now, but its still much bigger than most my age. I plan on keeping wealth a secret simply to be more connected to people. I feel an invisible wall is built any time widely different financial standpoints are revealed.
In general, pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes.

chucklesmcgee

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2013, 09:28:07 AM »
But Joshua Kennon makes some good arguments in favor of "stealth wealth" for the very wealthy.  See here and here.

Good articles, thanks!

I like the concept of stealth wealth and like to keep most people guessing. However, I've noticed that it gets very lonely without having at least a few close friends who know your secret. It can also be tough to keep up an image of stealth wealth and still be able to get close to others.

I  try to keep my coworkers most distant from me, but people ask what I did in a day and I have to evade or just outright lie. "Hmmm, what did I do today? Fired off some paperwork to my tax preparer, looked at the analysis of prosper loan data I hired a Harvard statistician to compile, moved $10k into prosper, had my virtual assistant prepare a cover letter for some jobs that I don't really need but might be fun to have, investigated the ins and outs of my 401k plan to see if I can cash out for some strategic advantages, requested a monthly transaction volume increase to $250k from my credit card processor, cleared out of my kitchen for my chef to come in and was quite pleased with the $4000 in revenue my company pulled in today... I mean, uh, not much, you?"

Even little inquiries and my handling of would-be-catastrophes can be red flags. I was at fault in a car accident recently that exceeded my $5000 in coverage and had been waiting for some time to see how it would play out. In the end I owed a little over $6000. I guess I should have never brought it up with my coworkers, but my ability to more or less painlessly afford that was a bit ill received. I had broken my leg recently near work. People were very sympathetic and one person later asked how much it was going to cost me-

me"It's ridiculous, the MRI alone was something like $3000 after insurance negotiated it."
"You've got a good deductible right?"
"Haha, no, $5200." (why pay for coverage of something you can afford?)
*bertstare*

I think avoiding really conspicuous consumption is pretty easy. Hiding attitudes is a little tougher, especially if you want to remain genuine when talking to others.

Another Reader

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2013, 09:32:12 AM »
Arebelspy:

Have you read Kennon's blog?  Kennon is a far more knowledgeable and sophisticated investor than I am, and I would guess most people in this forum.  I don't see anything about how indexing always outperforms active management there.  His "active management" made him a lot of money.  Saying a proven approach to investing (not gambling) is "wholly unrealistic" shows a total lack of respect, including intellectual respect, for the accomplishment.  Reading all the books in the world contributes nothing to the discussion if all you do is use the knowledge to bolster your previously held beliefs and ignore evidence that is contrary to those beliefs.  That might work in the sheltered world of academia, but it's not very helpful to those of us living in the real world that want to improve our investing skills.

 


Skyn_Flynt

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2013, 09:33:14 AM »
I feel an invisible wall is built any time widely different financial standpoints are revealed.
Probably most people here want to be the "millionaire next door" - instead of aspire to move to a gated community.

I don't think that I would relate well to people who were born with wealth anyway. I have gone through tough spells... times when I had trouble keeping my car repaired, living in cheap places where at night the roaches came out like stars on the ceiling. Those were the sacrifices I made to have savings today.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 09:40:04 AM by Skyn_Flynt »

grantmeaname

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2013, 09:38:48 AM »
His "wholly unrealistic view" of investing made him very wealthy in his 20's.  Can you say your approach has done the same for you?
Well, first, he wants to actively invest for hours a day, and then get only a 3% return on his stock portfolio. That's not a ringing endorsement of his skills. Second, he thinks private equity will outperform the stock market to the degree that it will more than double the returns, despite extensive empirical evidence to the contrary and to say nothing of the differences in risk. Third, holy survivorship bias, batman! Buying nothing but apple stock in 2001 and selling it in June 2012 would make you rich beyond your wildest dreams too. That doesn't make it a good idea.

Lastly, yes, I will be very wealthy in my twenties. By the time I'm thirty, I will have all of the money I will ever need. I'm trying a paradigm called "work hard, don't spend money on stupid shit, and buy index funds", which seems to be a big hit around this site for some reason.

Edit: Like I said, though, I see where he's coming from. I have incredible respect for him as a person, too -- any consciously-thinking, lifestyle-designing gourmand private equity executive is on the right track in a lot of ways and shares many of my values, and he's obviously reasonably articulate as well. This isn't me trying to denigrate Kennon as a professional or a human being. I just think he's got a very strange worldview and some odd ideas floating around in his head.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 09:46:15 AM by grantmeaname »

arebelspy

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2013, 12:14:49 PM »
Arebelspy:

Have you read Kennon's blog?

No I haven't, and it's irrelevant to my point, because I'm not questioning him as an investor.  His approach may be valid.  It may not.  I don't know.  Grant is apparently asserting it may not be, you are asserting it may be.  I have no opinion on it.

My only point was saying "his strategy worked, how's yours doing?" is ridiculous to ask, because something working doesn't make it a valid strategy (nor does it invalidate it).  It happening to work very well could be happenstance (and again, may not be, I have no thoughts on whether his particular flavor of investing is or isn't invalid).

This line just seems hard to ask genuinely, with that in mind:
Quote
His "wholly unrealistic view" of investing made him very wealthy in his 20's.  Can you say your approach has done the same for you?
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AlexK

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2013, 12:27:23 PM »
I tell lots of people about my plans for FI. The main reason is I would like to have friends with similar interests. You can't do that if you never reveal your true self (this applies to every aspect of life, not just finances). If people think negatively of me for that, they probably won't talk to me any more... problem solved!

Actually my boss knows I make enough money to live on from investments and my employment time is limited. It isn't good from a career standpoint, but what do I care, it will be one more year working at the most.

Ozstache

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2013, 02:00:09 PM »
I found I was getting a lot of resistance if I used the word retire in any of my discussions with people with this, as there is mass incredulity that one can simply unplug from the matrix at the halfway mark. So now I just tell people that I've put in a good 30 years in my current line of work and just want to try my hand at something else while I'm young enough to switch "careers". The fact that my new "career" will not involve any form of wage slavery is something they do not need to know. As far as they are concerned, I will have enough to tide me over until I find my new working career groove, which just happens to be never!

shadowmoss

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2013, 02:27:43 PM »
I have pretty much been going up to strangers and bragging that I paid off my credit cards and my Jeep in the past 2 months, after being down here in Honduras for almost 2.5 years.  Prior, it came up as why I wasn't doing a lot of traveling around while I'm down here.  In general, most of us are down here working the DOD contract because of the money (which isn't as good as working in the Desert, but is better than we can make in the US), it is more the flavor of what we do with it that is different.  I'm fairly new to the game as most of the guys working here have little to no debt, and they are down here to settle in and get set up to live here at low cost during retirement.
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Nords

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2013, 02:49:55 PM »
Just curious.
We will be FI in July this year, but are having a difficult time in trying to explain to people what that means.
We are constantly asked: but what will you do for money/work/time...
It's very weird and I wondered if it was just our friends and family, or if not, how you (do or would) deal with it?
People are usually more interested in how your point of view applies to them-- they can't imagine what they'd do all day if they were ER'd.

I think the best approach is to tell people that you're taking a few months off to spend time with family & friends.  As that stretches out into months and eventually years, they'll start to perceive you as chronically unemployable.  Eventually they'll get tired of hearing about how you live a beach-bum lifestyle, surfing all day and working on your own projects.  Instead they'll suspect that you're selling your blood plasma (and perhaps redundant body parts) to pay your bills. 

After a few years they'll see how you're dressing, and they'll be worried that you'll ask them for money, so they won't even bring up the subject.

It's working for us!

The most compact subject-changing explanations I've seen over the years are "investment manager for a family office" and "every day is Saturday!!"
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travelbug

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2013, 03:42:52 PM »
Just curious.
We will be FI in July this year, but are having a difficult time in trying to explain to people what that means.
We are constantly asked: but what will you do for money/work/time...
It's very weird and I wondered if it was just our friends and family, or if not, how you (do or would) deal with it?
People are usually more interested in how your point of view applies to them-- they can't imagine what they'd do all day if they were ER'd.

I think the best approach is to tell people that you're taking a few months off to spend time with family & friends.  As that stretches out into months and eventually years, they'll start to perceive you as chronically unemployable.  Eventually they'll get tired of hearing about how you live a beach-bum lifestyle, surfing all day and working on your own projects.  Instead they'll suspect that you're selling your blood plasma (and perhaps redundant body parts) to pay your bills. 

After a few years they'll see how you're dressing, and they'll be worried that you'll ask them for money, so they won't even bring up the subject.

It's working for us!

The most compact subject-changing explanations I've seen over the years are "investment manager for a family office" and "every day is Saturday!!"

LOL!

I agree.

We have been flying under the radar for years now, just working, building assets and accumulating wealth.

But now it's almost here and we have decided to sell our business rather than keep it we are having to explain ourselves somewhat.

Our plan is to travel for 1-3 years, hence the sabbatical idea.

After that I suppose we may start up a fun project but we can just allude to it as a web based business perhaps...I think that the longer we just live the less people will think it weird. As we have always been self employed we can get by on that I suppose.

I also feel that when we suggest we are retiring or being FI, that's when the trouble starts. DH's brother actually became so angry with us for "throwing our life away" it created a massive arguement and rift for a while. Crazy. He just could not get his head around it at all.

So it's good, but also a very sad reflection of our society and world, that others are experiencing similar scenarios. That's why I love coming here: I don't feel like such a weirdo!




joshuakennon

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2013, 03:59:59 PM »
His "wholly unrealistic view" of investing made him very wealthy in his 20's.  Can you say your approach has done the same for you?
Well, first, he wants to actively invest for hours a day, and then get only a 3% return on his stock portfolio. That's not a ringing endorsement of his skills. Second, he thinks private equity will outperform the stock market to the degree that it will more than double the returns, despite extensive empirical evidence to the contrary and to say nothing of the differences in risk. Third, holy survivorship bias, batman! Buying nothing but apple stock in 2001 and selling it in June 2012 would make you rich beyond your wildest dreams too. That doesn't make it a good idea.

Lastly, yes, I will be very wealthy in my twenties. By the time I'm thirty, I will have all of the money I will ever need. I'm trying a paradigm called , which seems to be a big hit around this site for some reason.

Edit: Like I said, though, I see where he's coming from. I have incredible respect for him as a person, too -- any consciously-thinking, lifestyle-designing gourmand private equity executive is on the right track in a lot of ways and shares many of my values, and he's obviously reasonably articulate as well. This isn't me trying to denigrate Kennon as a professional or a human being. I just think he's got a very strange worldview and some odd ideas floating around in his head.

This is Joshua Kennon, the author in question.  I've had several people contact me today about this thread so I took a few minutes to see why on earth I, of all people, warrant discussion.

I'm curious as it if you have actually ever read any of my writings.  Your philosophy, "work hard, don't spend money on stupid shit, and buy index funds" is literally (without the profanity) the prescription I give to the 40,000,000+ people who read my sites annually (including my much smaller personal blog). 

The figures you have dishonestly - though I believe unintentionally so - referenced were taken from a mail submission question response about the cash income that could be possibly generated at current market prices by a hypothetical portfolio, and the 3% yield for stocks was referring to the fact that I would prefer a higher dividend yield (roughly 3%) to the current market's yield of 2.7% given that I like holding high quality, conservatively capitalized, cash generating stocks with very little turnover in my portfolio.  The 8% yield for private equity and master limited partnerships referred to the median yield available right now on MLP's, which are a special type of security that have major tax benefits, a famous example being a firm like Buckeye Partners, LP (ticker symbol BPL), which is not a stock but a publicly traded limited partnership that is required to distribute nearly all income as dividends to avoid taxation at the entity-level.  On an after-tax basis, though the cash yields of the two instruments (stocks and master limited partnerships) are very different, the underlying earnings yields are not by virtue of the fact the former retain most of their earnings for expansion and future growth.

Likewise, your assertion that I would spend "several hours a day" actively managing money is further proof you didn't look beyond the surface.  Though my turnover is extraordinarily low - a few percentage points a year - and my rates of return far above average (fueled by my private business holdings, the only one of which I have discussed in public is the most successful national Internet retailer of varsity jackets in the United States, which I started from my college apartment with a few thousand dollars) - the reason I said, in this hypothetical, I would sit in an office and read annual reports all day is because I love economics and studying businesses.  I feel about business like some people do about art or skateboarding.  You, incorrectly, assume that this means my portfolio turnover would be high.  This was clear, if you did more than a quick scan of the page or bothered to read any of my publications before forming an opinion about them.

The constant message I convey to people is:
  • Live frugally relative to your income and assets,
  • Avoid debt,
  • Don't invest in something you don't understand
  • If you choose to hold publicly traded stocks, which beat nearly all other asset classes over long periods of time, pick a low-cost index fund and dollar cost average into it for life
  • Financial independence is reached at the moment your household can support the lifestyle you desire without having to sell your time for a paycheck; that threshold is different for everyone.
  • Do this in the most moral way possible, which is defined as not exerting control over other people or harming anyone else.

I realize we live in a world of sound bites and ten-second attention spans, but calling me, of all people, someone who believes in active management, or hyper trading, would be like walking into a vegan conference and demanding they stop slaughtering cows because you passed the table and saw tofu burgers being served.  First conclusion bias does not always lead to clear thinking. 

I'm heading back over to my site and won't be back to check this in the future.  I normally don't bother responding to these sorts of things at all given the demands on my time but to ascribe to me investment views that are the polar opposite of what I've spent my career advocating for people is dishonest or ignorant.  Without knowing your intentions, I cannot be sure of which.

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2013, 04:20:21 PM »

arebelspy

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2013, 04:25:30 PM »
Thanks for your input Joshua.  I'm sure grant didn't mean it maliciously, and I can see how he interpreted the "sit in my office and look at stocks from 9 to 6" (paraphrasing) in your hypothetical daily schedule as active investing.

Having you give more information is very helpful, and I'm sure almost all of us here agree with your message as stated above.  Thanks for stopping in to clear it up.
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Self-employed-swami

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2013, 04:50:32 PM »
Seems like someone spends his days, googling himself...

Interesting though.
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joshuakennon

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2013, 05:06:20 PM »
Seems like someone spends his days, googling himself...

Interesting though.

No.  I'm not nearly that egotistical.  In my line of work certain ... security ... procedures are necessary and there are people who monitor this sort of thing.

To prove it, I'm sending you a private image of a satellite picture of where you are writing from at this moment.  I have no connection to this site and have no access to their servers.  It's all automated and uses the Internet's infrastructure to track down your location.  For example, we've had to use it in the past to lead people to the FBI if the messages they send are threatening.  It's a way to correct information asymmetry.  You know my real name ... so I know your real name, location, occupation, and other data.  Every major site does it.  Do a quick search for Target's capabilities - they are truly scary.  They can tell you when a woman is pregnant before the woman realizes itself based on purchasing habits.

(Sorry about commenting again - while I am here, I am looking around and this is actually a really great forum full of like-minded people.  I might have to join permanently.  I can't believe I didn't know about it before!)

arebelspy

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2013, 05:51:06 PM »
I think - if you aren't joking - you're just emphasizing grant's point about your "strange worldview."  :D

That's okay, most of us around here have some ideas the average person would find quite odd. 

It is easy to read an article or blog and forget the author is a real person, and just discuss them and their ideas in a vacuum.

Glad to have you here, your thoughts are plenty welcome.  Just know that there are many disagreements around here, we just try to do it respectfully.
A silent voice is as powerless as a silenced one.

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  The Cheat is a millionaire!

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2013, 06:12:06 PM »
(Sorry about commenting again - while I am here, I am looking around and this is actually a really great forum full of like-minded people.  I might have to join permanently.  I can't believe I didn't know about it before!)

I think you'd fit in just fine....

http://cdn4.joshuakennon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/face-punch-1-630x470.jpg

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2013, 06:44:32 PM »
(Sorry about commenting again - while I am here, I am looking around and this is actually a really great forum full of like-minded people.  I might have to join permanently.  I can't believe I didn't know about it before!)

I think you'd fit in just fine....

http://cdn4.joshuakennon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/face-punch-1-630x470.jpg

Ha!
A small business-owning SWAMI working herself towards FI.

Kriegsspiel

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2013, 06:49:07 PM »
LOL

I've spent most of the afternoon reading on Joshua's blog.  His principles and M3's are pretty close, some differences, but the basics are the same.  I like having the basics down pat.

grantmeaname

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2013, 07:31:11 PM »
The figures you have dishonestly - though I believe unintentionally so - referenced were taken from a mail submission question response about the cash income that could be possibly generated at current market prices by a hypothetical portfolio, and the 3% yield for stocks was referring to the fact that I would prefer a higher dividend yield (roughly 3%) to the current market's yield of 2.7% given that I like holding high quality, conservatively capitalized, cash generating stocks with very little turnover in my portfolio.  The 8% yield for private equity and master limited partnerships referred to the median yield available right now on MLP's, which are a special type of security that have major tax benefits, a famous example being a firm like Buckeye Partners, LP (ticker symbol BPL), which is not a stock but a publicly traded limited partnership that is required to distribute nearly all income as dividends to avoid taxation at the entity-level.  On an after-tax basis, though the cash yields of the two instruments (stocks and master limited partnerships) are very different, the underlying earnings yields are not by virtue of the fact the former retain most of their earnings for expansion and future growth.
All of which is fine, but it's not what your blog post says.

Quote
Likewise, your assertion that I would spend "several hours a day" actively managing money is further proof you didn't look beyond the surface.
 
There are hundreds of PF blogs on the web, and the discussion started revolving around your blog, one I wasn't familiar with. I read every word of both posts that were linked and explicitly the topic of this discussion, and if they contradict the major message of the rest of your blog that's fine. But for me to post a fairly nuanced view based on the commonsense meaning of what you typed, and for you then to insult me as "dishonest or ignorant", is pretty rich.

Quote
I feel about business like some people do about art or skateboarding.  You, incorrectly, assume that this means my portfolio turnover would be high.  This was clear, if you did more than a quick scan of the page or bothered to read any of my publications before forming an opinion about them.
I don't think I assumed that anywhere.

Quote
I'm heading back over to my site and won't be back to check this in the future.  I normally don't bother responding to these sorts of things at all given the demands on my time but to ascribe to me investment views that are the polar opposite of what I've spent my career advocating for people is dishonest or ignorant.  Without knowing your intentions, I cannot be sure of which.
You really showed me. Here, you win an internets.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 07:32:45 PM by grantmeaname »

William

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2013, 07:31:47 PM »
I never discuss financial specifics with any one person (even financial advisors, etc.).

The other day someone asked in awe how much money I had saved.  I just smile.
If you're still in the first quarter of life, read my blog.  If not, probably don't.


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KGZotU

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2013, 09:50:17 PM »
Ha!
Don't leave us hanging...did he...did he get your location right?

arebelspy

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2013, 10:21:08 PM »
A silent voice is as powerless as a silenced one.

-------------------------------------------------------

  The Cheat is a millionaire!

Hamster

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2013, 10:30:55 PM »
Ha!
Don't leave us hanging...did he...did he get your location right?

Here it is.

I wish I could like or +1 posts on this forum.

BTW, that satellite got me too...

arebelspy

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2013, 10:36:51 PM »
I wish I could like or +1 posts on this forum.

BTW, that satellite got me too...

Yikes, this goes deeper than we even know!

/tinfoil hat
A silent voice is as powerless as a silenced one.

-------------------------------------------------------

  The Cheat is a millionaire!

Nords

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2013, 10:44:16 PM »
Seems like someone spends his days, googling himself...
Interesting though.
No.  I'm not nearly that egotistical.  In my line of work certain ... security ... procedures are necessary and there are people who monitor this sort of thing.
Oh, please.  I have people Google Alerts set for my name and pingbacks on my blog too.

I just hope that your wealth has brought you happiness!
Author of "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement".   All royalties donated to military charities.
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keith

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2013, 01:06:29 AM »
Back on topic - when I first got excited about this stuff I had mentioned it to some family members (including parents). They all think I'm crazy now, so I just try to not bring it up anymore with them.

I do have one friend who is on a similar path which is great. An in-real-life person to talk about FI stuff with on a regular basis is awesome. Feels good to have someone else understand apart from "forum/internet friends" - ha.

galaxie

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2013, 07:40:04 AM »
I am pretty early on in this plan, so when I mentioned it to my parents (I said something like "We have a 15 year mortgage, and when the house is paid off we can retire"), they said something like "That's nice, honey.  Sure you will.  Don't put all your eggs in one basket."

I get a lot of semi-dismissive comments like that.  I'm 30 and childless, and I plan to be retired (probably with kids) at about 45, give or take.  People usually say "what, are you independently wealthy?" and "you're very lucky," with a smattering of "It'll never work, the market won't behave forever, and you're setting yourself up for disaster."  But I still tell people, and they just start to think I have crazy ideas.  I fit in just fine with the 9/11 truther in the office across the hall and the engineer with the fruit orchard.

Togoshiman

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2013, 08:21:00 AM »
Any comment, direct or indirect, about being frugral, potential FI / ER, etc. has not been well-received.  The best I got was from parents when I mentioned an aggressive plan to pay off the mortgage (in the tone of voice you'd use with a small child who was telling you about their imaginary friend).  Siblings, friends and co-workers have ranged from hostile to indifferent to some sort of willfully-blind-the-words-are-not-going-in slack-jawed mental force field...  I've given up.  Plans are rapidly snowballing and I just pretend like nothing is going on whatsoever.  People comment I seem more relaxed, however.

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2013, 09:05:21 AM »
Ha!
Don't leave us hanging...did he...did he get your location right?

Here it is.

I wish I could like or +1 posts on this forum.

BTW, that satellite got me too...

He put me in Ottawa.  He got the country correct at least. 

He'd have had gotten much closer, if he just looked at the mustache map thread.
:D
A small business-owning SWAMI working herself towards FI.

jrhampt

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2013, 09:18:57 AM »
LOL

I've spent most of the afternoon reading on Joshua's blog.  His principles and M3's are pretty close, some differences, but the basics are the same.  I like having the basics down pat.

Yeah, me, too.  His blog has been a very entertaining way to spend yesterday and today as I'm waiting for some data to be processed.  Thanks to whoever linked to it in the first place!

Mike

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2013, 09:32:05 AM »
Most reaction has been disbelief.  I also get a lot of "what are you going to do?" - as if there's no possible alternate way to fill the time void left by quitting a full-time job.  Clearly their expectation is that I will get bored.

A couple women were curious about how I plan on doing it, so I shed some light on it.  Immediate response was "I could never do that".  My take is most of the population is every bit as hooked on wasteful lifestyle choices as any heroin addict.

galaxie

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Re: Do you tell people?
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2013, 01:05:16 PM »
Plans are rapidly snowballing and I just pretend like nothing is going on whatsoever.  People comment I seem more relaxed, however.

I go around the office with a spring in my step and a twinkle in my eye.  Folks ask me how I'm doing and I say "Livin' the dream!"  They look at me like I have two heads.

What?  I'm doing productive work at a job I like, I have a sweet house and a great family, and I live in the Best-Run City in America (tm).  I do sometimes wish I could spend a little less time on the job, but that's what FI is for.  I have goals and I'm making progress.  There's a general atmosphere of Financial Complainypantsness that rivals the Body Image Negativity Olympics my women friends get into when I mention a new weight lifting routine.  It's actually a little bit socially unacceptable to be happy with your finances/body fat percentage.