Do you know anyone who FIRE'd in real life without some big windfall?

[Adam Zapple]

Are you ever surprised after reading forums such as this that you don't know anyone else pursuing early retirement?  In today's world where my news feeds are customized based on what I like to read, I sometimes forget that most people have no interest in investing, retiring before 65 etc.  It seems like FIRE is some huge "movement" but I don't really think it is. 

I was thinking about it today and realized I've only met three people who retired early.  Two were partners in a technology firm that hit it big and they sold out for a HUGE windfall.  The other started a commercial HVAC company and also was able to sell for a big payday.  Outside of myself, I don't know a single person who is actively pursuing FIRE while working a normal(ish) job. 

[Ann]

For this thread’s purposes, what is your definition of “early”?

[tipster350]

I knew of a good handful, all but one in Silicon Valley tech industry, who got big paydays through high salary/stock bonanza, etc. The other one was an early Pixar employee who also hit it big from stock. As I wrote this out i realized they were all windfall situations of various kinds so I guess the answer is no. No regular working stiffs.

[Hirondelle]

I met 2. One just told me he had gotten lucky on the stock market. Not sure if that means good year of compounding or lucky stockpicking though.

The second was a pretty cool guy who used to be a musician, lived a semi-retired lifestyle for a few years and then pulled the plug in his 40s. I think if I hadn't met him the idea of FIRE would've never clicked as well in my mind as it did once I heard about it (which was about 6 months later)

[I'm a red panda]

Is selling a company a huge windfall? Or is it a result of hard work?

To me, a windfall is when great Uncle Albie dies and leaves you a few million dollars.  If you built something, that something had value, and you sold it- that's you.

[Bird In Hand]

OP, it seems to me that there has been an increase in publicity and buzz (FIRE-related blogs & podcasts, mainstream media stories) about the "burgeoning FIRE movement" in the past several years.  It's plausible that a lot more people are FIRE-ing than ever before -- we're very deep into a strong bull market after all.

However my IRL experience is similar to yours.  I know a couple of people at work who are young and investing hard to achieve FI.  And I had a chance encounter (through selling something on Craigslist) with one kindred spirit who was FIREd several years ago.  He and his wife were probably in their early 50's, with two high-school aged kids.  They had recently achieved FIRE with a decent (but not spectacular) nest egg by cutting expenses to the bone.

Other than this particular gentleman, the only youngish people I know IRL who have retired are military pensioners who retired in their 40's after 20 years of service, or who retired younger with disability pay from a service-related injury.

[Cranky]

Most people I actually know are fairly low income and will be plenty happy to retire in their 60s.

But my grandfather sold the family business and retired in his 50s in the actual 1950s. LOL

We had a family friend who retired in her mid-30s. There was some kind of insurance settlement involved. She did eventually go back to work, though.

And another family friend retired from the military in his early 50s and took a year of so off before going back to work. They are very Type A people, and I bet will be working at something or other until they actually do die.

[fuzzy math]

I know a mustachian type family who retired in their mid 30s through selling a home they’d renovated and buying trendy stocks. They are super frugal and anti consumeristic. Never read MMM, and figured it out all in their own. These are the types who impress me the most (lean Fire ppl) more so than people who reach typical Bogglehead retirement levels before FIREing.


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[Adam Zapple]

For this thread’s purposes, what is your definition of “early”?

No strict definition, but before 50 seems like a good place to start.

[Adam Zapple]

Is selling a company a huge windfall? Or is it a result of hard work?

To me, a windfall is when great Uncle Albie dies and leaves you a few million dollars.  If you built something, that something had value, and you sold it- that's you.

Good point. Perhaps a poor choice of words on my part, although I can't think of another way to phrase it at the moment.

[Linea_Norway]

My parents in law retired at 50. They sold the company that FIL built up with a lot of hard work. And they were very frugal people, Mustachians before that word existed.

[simonsez]

Is selling a company a huge windfall? Or is it a result of hard work?

To me, a windfall is when great Uncle Albie dies and leaves you a few million dollars.  If you built something, that something had value, and you sold it- that's you.

I don't see why they're mutually exclusive.  They can be both.  A windfall is a large sum regardless of the source.

[I'm a red panda]

Is selling a company a huge windfall? Or is it a result of hard work?

To me, a windfall is when great Uncle Albie dies and leaves you a few million dollars.  If you built something, that something had value, and you sold it- that's you.

I don't see why they're mutually exclusive.  They can be both.  A windfall is a large sum regardless of the source.

Merriam webster says "an unexpected, unearned, or sudden gain or advantage".

If you build up a company, that doesn't seem like a windfall to me.  Winning the lottery or getting an inheritance do.

How is selling your company any different than earning a super high salary? You've done work other people haven't.  Key word: work.  If these people put in the work, their retirement didn't "come easy" as the post seems to imply.

[fatchad]

Is selling a company a huge windfall? Or is it a result of hard work?

To me, a windfall is when great Uncle Albie dies and leaves you a few million dollars.  If you built something, that something had value, and you sold it- that's you.

I don't see why they're mutually exclusive.  They can be both.  A windfall is a large sum regardless of the source.

Merriam webster says "an unexpected, unearned, or sudden gain or advantage".

If you build up a company, that doesn't seem like a windfall to me.  Winning the lottery or getting an inheritance do.

How is selling your company any different than earning a super high salary? You've done work other people haven't.  Key word: work.  If these people put in the work, their retirement didn't "come easy" as the post seems to imply.

Sudden gain sounds pretty clear to me in this case, right? I get that they didn't just build and sell a company quickly...but the money itself is paid at the time of sale.

[simonsez]

Is selling a company a huge windfall? Or is it a result of hard work?

To me, a windfall is when great Uncle Albie dies and leaves you a few million dollars.  If you built something, that something had value, and you sold it- that's you.

I don't see why they're mutually exclusive.  They can be both.  A windfall is a large sum regardless of the source.

Merriam webster says "an unexpected, unearned, or sudden gain or advantage".

If you build up a company, that doesn't seem like a windfall to me.  Winning the lottery or getting an inheritance do.

How is selling your company any different than earning a super high salary? You've done work other people haven't.  Key word: work.  If these people put in the work, their retirement didn't "come easy" as the post seems to imply.

Right, it seems the OP was focusing on the definition after the or statement.  I could be totally off, though.  I don't see what delineating where the source of the "sudden gain or advantage" helps for this topic.  If someone has an expected, earned, sudden gain or advantage and FIREs - for the purpose of discussion the end result is the same as someone who FIREd with the luckier type of windfall. 

However, that's not to say luck isn't involved for those hardworking new money types.  Malcolm Gladwell has a lot to say about this.  Where and when you were born in addition to economic forces are purely luck.  Take two people that are identical with brains/genes, family/friend/networking resources, and where they are born, just that they are 3 years apart.  Person A sells their web business in 1999 for a handsome sum while person B's web business which took just as much hard work simply isn't getting the same valuation a few years later.  Hard work is definitely correlated with earning more, no doubt.  I just think there is so much at play in the business world that is external to an individual's hard work that examining large sums of money being transferred and the reason behind it as it relates to FIRE is fairly insignificant.

Reading about hitting the career lottery (or the path to it) is much more interesting than hitting purely the inheritance lottery, to be sure.

[Lan Mandragoran]

I know one who sold a business that he built... not really the work and save a bunch of money way.

I know one that could maybe qualify as that, he also started his own business, and has worked basically however much he wants since he was mid 30's (mid 50's now) and could retire if he wanted (why would he though, he works less than 10 hours a week and pulls in a princely sum).

[cerat0n1a]

For this thread’s purposes, what is your definition of “early”?

No strict definition, but before 50 seems like a good place to start.

At least 20 people, in that case. Apart from myself. My parents (both teachers) retired in their late forties, admittedly on a four figure income. Know quite a few British people who retired early to Spain or France (unless you count selling up your own homein a HCOL location as a "big windfall.") A number of engineers & IT people who worked in the US/Gulf states and then moved back to Britain.

Quite a lot of the founders  & early employees of the company I worked for or other tech companies - although that depends on whether selling share options of a successful business you helped build up qualifies.

[By the River]

I know a couple, 1 was a paleontologist that worked for an oil company.  Very smart and frugal who invested in real estate and retired late 40s after traveling all over the world for his job.  Now hunts, fishes, rides motorcycles, and gardens.

Second was someone who worked on the space shuttle program.  After it ended, when he was in his late 40s, he took time off to travel the world; sometimes alone and sometimes with his wife.  Right now, I’m not sure if his work with a charity is pay or volunteer but it appears the real compensation is the smile on his face. 

[GuitarStv]

MMM?

[I'm a red panda]

MMM?

Is his blog considered a windfall though? Certainly an extra $400k a year is a nice, unexpected thing to have.

(I'd say it's not, but I also don't think selling a company is.)

[YYK]

MMM?

Is his blog considered a windfall though? Certainly an extra $400k a year is a nice, unexpected thing to have.

(I'd say it's not, but I also don't think selling a company is.)

MMM was retired before the blog came along, and probably still would be even without the blog.

[Schaefer Light]

No.  But I don't get out much.

[DS]

Met a guy in Australia who has touring and said he retired from the healthcare industry in his 40's.

Met another person hiking the Appalachian Trail who said he had earned $60+/hr teaching English abroad and FIREd in his 30's. He called it "opting out"

Don't think either one knew about the "FIRE movement." Just got themselves out.

[GrumpyPenguin]

I know one other person (and their partner) IRL who has actively pursued FIRE.  Both them and I are technically FI at this point but haven't yet hit the RE switch.  I know one other who hasn't talked about actively pursuing FIRE, but I believe is very close to it, is frugal by default and could probably do whatever they wanted within a few years at a youngish age.

Neither these folks nor I have experienced a big windfall.

[terran]

My aunt and uncle retired in their low-mid fifties. He was in engineering and she was in education. If I had to guess they did alright for themselves, but nothing out of the norm around here. He's probably been the most successful at really retiring, she's gone back to part time work which isn't surprising given her personality.

My grandfather was pretty young when he retired (I think he may have been downsized), but then "failed" at that and started a successful business that he worked at until he was around 80. Before that he was a pretty normal engineer who just plugged along and saved. Afterwards they were the prototypical millionaire next door.

One of the houses on the street where I live last belonged to a guy (probably in his sixties or seventies) who had "retired" from being a plumber many years ago. He worked plenty hard on keeping his portfolio of rentals up (probably nicer than he needed to for the market), but I think it just gave him something to do. He'd toodle around (often on his bike) checking up on the rentals and chatting with tenants and neighbors.

[Loren Ver]

My dad was one.  He retired at 40 from the Air Force.  From my understanding (he passed away so I cannot ask for details) he didn't go the pension route.  He told me it was only making a few percent so he had them pay it out and he invested it.  Made a lot more than a few percent in the market.  I grew up thinking early retirement was normal....

A friend from work retired in his early 50s by socking away and investing.  He has a HCOL so it took him a while.

I know several people at work that are actively working towards FIRE. We talk about it sometimes.  None are big earners, but saving and cutting what they can.  Some will be out in their 40s and some in their 50s.  All early by government standards. 

[erutio]

MMM?

Did you know MMM in real life before the blog?

(Not being sarcastic.  I know that many forum members have met him.)

[LibrarianFuzz]

No.

The one person I know who is comfortably retired inherited a house that is now worth almost $700,000. Never paid a mortgage in her life.

My primary social interactions are with a bunch of library technical assistants who make $30k a year, and librarians who make $50k a year, in one of the most expensive home and rental markets in the country. Almost everyone I know, myself included, spend over 50% of our take-home pay on rent or mortgage. This is not a topic I bring up to people in real life, and I know no one in real life who is on track to early retirement - or even a comfortable retirement, period.

[GuitarStv]

MMM?

Did you know MMM in real life before the blog?

(Not being sarcastic.  I know that many forum members have met him.)

No . . . but I my understanding was that he FIRED'd in real life without a big windfall.

[sneeds]

My dad retired at the age of 52 in the year 2002. He never had a big windfall, just lived a simple life, worked as a middle manager at a company, saved and invested. It's not an extremely young age to retire, but I'd be happy if I'm able to retire at age 52. Sometimes it blows my mind that he's already been retired for more than 15 years now, just living the dream and doing what he likes to do every day.

[Slee_stack]

Both my parents retired prior to 55.

Neither situation was planned though.  Both were a result of downsizing or incentive to retire.  Regardless, neither ever went back to work and are still chugging along.

I also know one person who did retire in his 40's on a very tight budget.  He either didn't plan well enough or is just cheap since he tries to get others to pay for him.   He's a nice guy otherwise, but I can't stand the mooch part.

[One]

Only 1 person, owned a business and sold.

[ETBen]

Is selling a company a huge windfall? Or is it a result of hard work?

To me, a windfall is when great Uncle Albie dies and leaves you a few million dollars.  If you built something, that something had value, and you sold it- that's you.

I don't see why they're mutually exclusive.  They can be both.  A windfall is a large sum regardless of the source.

I’d say we are talking about the difference between someone who incrementally chipped away at it vs someone who had a single (or maybe multiple) large event. Not just slogging away daily on the clock.

I don’t mean that as a value judgment or comparing how hard the work is. Basically “do you need to experience or be able to generate a large lump sum to successfully fire?”  Mathematically, no. But the discipline required by people is difficult.

[ixtap]

I knew a lot of people who did well for themselves in the 90s and retired in the early 2000s.

My FIL was laid off in his 50s and is doing just fine: he had been hoping for a conservative boglehead retirement, though. I don't think he would be spending much, if any, more, he would just have a more conservative withdraw rate and leave a bigger legacy.

I have cousins who went to work for the local factory at 18 and retired with full pension at 48. That was right around the crash, no idea if that is still a possible career path in the rust belt.

I know a number of people who retired from the military. Some went on to second careers, some didn't.

I currently have one friend who has mentioned early retirement and making lifestyle choices that will allow it to happen.

I also have friends who are SWAMI. They like what they do, as business owners they are employing folk, and the business is run in such a way to allow for frequent travel and a near constant staycation attitude to their hometown. They have admitted that they could maintain their current luxurious lifestyle indefinitely and still have to worry about how much they are leaving it to their daughter in a way that won't cause more harm than good.

I know far more people who quit their jobs and went adventuring, with the intention of going back to work, or in modern times, intending to work remotely. As a matter of fact, that was our original plan: save up 10 years' expenses in taxable, then wing it. Turns out, with the introduction of HSAs and learning about mega backdoor Roth's, we will be pretty close to that goal soon, but with a much higher net worth than we originally projected and a lot less left up to "wing it."

[dude]

There are many, many people in this forum who retired early without a windfall. spartana, nords, arebelspy, Jon Snow, and MMM just to name a few (there are many more).

[Zikoris]

Quite a few, actually - we have a pretty large local MMM group that's a mix of life situations, including several early retirees who pulled the plug in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. Me and my part me are looking at a timeline of about two years from now, at ages 33 and 35. My dad retired in his 50s as well, and my in-laws retired young as well. I actually don't know anyone in real life who received windfalls - everyone just worked, saved, and made good investing decisions.

[DS]

There are many, many people in this forum who retired early without a windfall. spartana, nords, arebelspy, Jon Snow, and MMM just to name a few (there are many more).

Well I don't think OP was suggesting the only way to FIRE is through windfall, but wanted to see examples of knowing anyone outside the interwebs who grinded their way there.

[Cranky]

Actually, my in-laws retired in their late 50s, as soon as my dh graduated from high school. My fil had a government pension and had invested carefully. My mil had always been a sahm. They were always careful with money but did a lot of traveling, which they loved. So that was pretty much regular FIRE. They lived into their 90s and did fine.

[Askel]

I live in an area with an insanely low cost of living that offers a lot of opportunities for an active, outdoor lifestyle (skiing, biking, etc). 

There are tons of people around here that.... well... I'm not really sure what their status is.  All I know for sure is that they don't work or if they do- in something weird like photography or writing where I can't imagine they make a ton of money.

Some of them are probably FIRE.
Some are probably trustifarians. 
Some are probably just scraping by.
Some are probably just racking up a bunch of debt.
Some are probably legitimate bums.   

It's pretty much impossible to tell which is which.

[erutio]

I think the OP question could be better phrased as, "Do you know anyone in real life, who FIRE'd without some big windfall".

[EscapeVelocity2020]

MMM?

Did you know MMM in real life before the blog?

(Not being sarcastic.  I know that many forum members have met him.)

No . . . but I my understanding was that he FIRED'd in real life without a big windfall.

But, like most males that raise the "ER" flag, his wife was still working at the time.

[TomSelleckJR]

My dad retired at 57.  Like others have commented, it's not SUPER early, but it still beats the average nonetheless.

He was very frugal, a hard worker, lived a pretty basic life and didn't chase after fanciness.

He passed away last summer at age 78, but his investments are still in tact and are taking good care of my mom.

[Chuck Ditallin]

I've just sold my business and am down to 2 days a week for the next 11 months to assist the new owners.

The gain in my net worth has come from growing the business (from a negative worth in 1998) to a high 6 figures net valuation this year (plus paying myself a decent salary in the meanwhile and accumulating 'personal' wealth from this.) The sale has actually reduced my net worth (tax implications and sales costs) but has turned my one, large illiquid asset into lots of lovely liquid ETFs.

There's no sudden gain in selling a business, the value was always there.

[TartanTallulah]

I've known several people who have become FI at 50 because they were able to start drawing a large DB pension and had other investments, but I can't think of anyone in that position who chose to stop working at 50.

[PizzaSteve]

Join a hiking group that meets on weekdays.  You will find plenty of good case studies in retirement planning.  I think it is where you are hanging out and the type of people you are meeting.  The FIRE people are out on hiking trails all over the world.

[Zikoris]

Join a hiking group that meets on weekdays.  You will find plenty of good case studies in retirement planning.  I think it is where you are hanging out and the type of people you are meeting.  The FIRE people are out on hiking trails all over the world.

Yeah, what is with FIRE people and hiking? I can't explain it - we do it too. Along with basically everyone we know locally who's into FIRE. Literally the majority of our socializing involves hiking or bike riding. Somehow it's the first thing that comes to mind when one of us wants to organize something with friends. Last weekend we went hiking with two other couples who are into FIRE, and they had apparently thought about inviting us to do literally the same trail the day before we invited them. We're doing another hike this weekend, also with FIRE-oriented people. And a few weeks ago I visited my early-retired dad, and what did we decide to do? A crap-ton of hiking. It's pretty hilarious.

[PizzaSteve]

Join a hiking group that meets on weekdays.  You will find plenty of good case studies in retirement planning.  I think it is where you are hanging out and the type of people you are meeting.  The FIRE people are out on hiking trails all over the world.

Yeah, what is with FIRE people and hiking? I can't explain it - we do it too. Along with basically everyone we know locally who's into FIRE. Literally the majority of our socializing involves hiking or bike riding. Somehow it's the first thing that comes to mind when one of us wants to organize something with friends. Last weekend we went hiking with two other couples who are into FIRE, and they had apparently thought about inviting us to do literally the same trail the day before we invited them. We're doing another hike this weekend, also with FIRE-oriented people. And a few weeks ago I visited my early-retired dad, and what did we decide to do? A crap-ton of hiking. It's pretty hilarious.

We are in a group that hikes twice a week, plus the local FIRE meetups here are usually hikes.  I think it is about knowing what matters in life...health, beauty, friends...hiking and biking align with our philosophy of low consumption living...that and cooking good food.

[pennyhandlebar]

I do! He is in his early 50s, I think. He was in the armed forces and might have a pension from that, I'm not sure, but when I met him he owned a auto mechanic shop. I think that went pretty well for him; he sold the business a few years ago and is now pursuing a passion project.

[SwordGuy]

My wife and I were within a year of FIRING when my mom died.   Actually delayed us FIRING by a year even though I inherited a good bit.  We decided to do some things that we otherwise would not have ever done but delayed FIRING to mitigate the extra expense with an extra year of salary.

I've met Justin at www.RootOfGood.com.   He's pulled it off.

My neighbor just completed 20 years in the army.  I'm coaching him and he's aiming for FIRE in about 5 years.  That will put him at age 45-50. 

I've coached several folks in their 20s and they've turned their finances and fortunes around.   They'll make it in 10 to 15 years if they choose to do so.  Either way, they'll be fine financially.
They've been astounded at how things turn around once they set their mind to it and start doing the right things.

[onlykelsey]

I think people just don't talk about it much.  We're trained not to talk about finances, and, unless it's a very close friendship, I don't know that there is much worth in bringing up your FIRE plans with the person. 

It also probably has something to do with age... I am now ten years out of college (or an average of maybe four years out of grad school for the majority of my college friends who went to grad school), so I expect people may start firing in the next 2-5 years.