Do you have Mustachian Friends?

[Sanne]

Nope, I have none. I even think some of my friends think I'm poor and make bad choices when I do spend money. No car? No new furniture every few years? Doesn't renovate the kitchen or get a new one? Does spend money on a good new bike? Must be poor! Weird choice to buy a bike!

Totally relate to this one.

Good to know I'm not alone in this! I have to say it's kinda hard sometimes. Being with friends / at a party or whatever and a lot of the conversation is about buying new stuff, getting a bigger house, a new car.. I can't relate, I can't really add to the conversation with my own buying stuff stories and at the same time I don't want to be rude but supporting but it's not always easy to be because I don't want to stimulate this behaviour. Especially when I feel a lot of people do it for the likes.

At least my man is on board! One time we said 'we bought a bath mat' at a party and there was this weird uncomfortable silence and one person was like.. 'what color'. That was a good moment. ;)

One thing I've found surprising is how much totally non-FIRE stuff I tend to have in common with FIRE-oriented people. It seems like there are a lot of really common "peripheral interests" that are unrelated to FIRE yet super common in the community (or at least our local community). Some examples of really common ones I've noticed that I have in common:

- Travel
- Zero-waste/low consumption living
- Veganism or vegetarianism
- Outdoors activities
- Philosophy

Also, a lot of people seem really into gardening and board games. I don't have those in common because a) I live in a downtown apartment building and b) I suck at board games (I'm like Candy Land ability level), but I definitely have noticed it.

Yeah I noticed that too!!!

I'm into a lot of those examples btw. Vegan, biking, travel (not right now though ;)), low consumption (and dabbling the toes into the less waste water), even board games.

[Imma]

@Sanne sounds like your friends have a totally different lifestyle. I hope you still have other things in common with them. One of my oldest friends from primary school has become a bit like that. We have so much history together that we still share other things. But I'm not sure that I'd make new friends like that now.

I've always made sure that people know I'm not poor, just 'weird". Not sure if everyone believes that though. That friend from way back lives in a massive new built home (Vinex type for the Dutchies) the ground floor is bigger than our entire house. They'll still say things like "who knows, maybe you'll live in a place like this one day". I'll politely reply that I don't think it wouldn't fit my lifestyle as I love innercity car free life and I don't need so much space because I don't have so much stuff. That gives them the opportunity to say "but you could buy a car and the space will fill itself". I don't want to be rude and say that I wouldn't want to live there in a million years and their lifestyle is my worst nightmare. But that's the truth.

[Sanne]

@Sanne sounds like your friends have a totally different lifestyle. I hope you still have other things in common with them. One of my oldest friends from primary school has become a bit like that. We have so much history together that we still share other things. But I'm not sure that I'd make new friends like that now.

I've always made sure that people know I'm not poor, just 'weird". Not sure if everyone believes that though. That friend from way back lives in a massive new built home (Vinex type for the Dutchies) the ground floor is bigger than our entire house. They'll still say things like "who knows, maybe you'll live in a place like this one day". I'll politely reply that I don't think it wouldn't fit my lifestyle as I love innercity car free life and I don't need so much space because I don't have so much stuff. That gives them the opportunity to say "but you could buy a car and the space will fill itself". I don't want to be rude and say that I wouldn't want to live there in a million years and their lifestyle is my worst nightmare. But that's the truth.

That is totally relatable!
One time it was about buying new kitchens and a few friends were doing this at the same time, this was really time consuming and I was supportive/happy for them although it's not something I would've done myself. We can still respect each other. BUT then the conversation was about that this (thinking about and shopping for the perfect kitchen, completely styled/with all the features etc) is the dream for everyone and everyone would LOVE to do this. I don't. I like cooking but not shopping for a brand new kitchen, figuring out what the perfect kitchen is for me, spending months on it shopping around, making plans on paper, making models.. So I was like, well I don't LOVE that. It wouldn't be my hobby. Then they said I would've liked it if I could afford it.. I tried to explain that I just don't like it, it would be stressful for me etc, but they didn't buy it. They couldn't understand it at all.

In hindsight I should've said I could afford it, but I didn't want to brag ánd I felt that wasn't the point.

But it made me realize a lot of people think if you don't do certain things you are 'supposed' to do, you can't afford it. Like, it's weird to me that for a lot of people that's the only explanation. That's kinda said.

I do have other things in common with these friends! And i also have other friends who are not like this as well (or I don't really talk with them about this stuff). And it's not always like this but there are times it is. And the fact is that they don't understand us but that's ok. It's also like you said, we have history and with some of them it's about other stuff when we catch up. But I wouldn't 'add' more friends like this I guess like you also said. ;)

[dcheesi]

Not really Mustachian, no. I do socialize with people in a broad range of circumstances and life priorities, though. Frequent-flyer, tech early-adopter pals in DC, who probably think I'm the poor cousin. Friends from my previous LCoL town, mostly engineers and such who are smart enough to manage their finances well, but lack any specific ambitions of FIRE. Friends from my home town¹ , who are a mixture of old hippies, younger slackers, and random folks in between, all of low to moderate income (AFAIK)².

¹ but oddly enough, not friends from my childhood, all of whom have scattered over the years

²Actually there's one doctor in the group, who I suspect is doing better than she lets on, but we've never talked about financial matters (not really a "thing" in that social circle).

[Imma]

@Sanne that sounds really familiar! We bought a fixer upper post-war house 5 years ago and at that point we couldn't afford to renovate it yet. But the mortgage was a lot lower than rent so we could save a lot and we have the money now, but we've gotten used to the house. The kitchen is from the 80s (thankfully it's a plain white standard kitchen) but it's still in good shape.

The cupboard doors are a bit wonky and we put up some extra shelving that looks nice to me but isn't a perfect match. I have the money but the hassle is just not worth it to me. The kitchen didn't come with a stove so we bought one with a good quality oven when we moved in and that's the most import part to me. I love to cook and the ovens in the student houses we lived in were always broken.   

We did do quite a bit of invisble work on the house, like fixing all of the rotted wood, extra insulation, replacing some of the electric wiring and ventilation. But that necessary stuff takes so much energy that I really can't be bothered with the hassle to replace things that aren't even broken! 

[slappy]

When Playing With Fire was screened in my town, it took all of my reserves not to stand up at the end and yell "Who likes FIRE? Who wants to be my friend??!!" LOL.

Ummm....I did that! lol  And I made a new friend out of it! My husband kept asking why this girl from work wanted to see this movie with me. She loved it, though.

[Just Joe]

We have one MMM friend couple. They introduced us to MMM. DW has a MMM-style coworker and they talk.

We realized that for whatever reason often helpful suggestions sounds we make sounds like judgement or preaching. We have a number of friends who are just living paycheck to paycheck. One or two are spend everything folks. We like the company, won't spend like that. A few friends have really struggled b/c of COVID shutdowns. A few that make really bad decisions. They claw their way out of debt only to land there again b/c shiny things are distracting or job problems.

What's been interesting is discussing finances with out of state friends who live in famous places. Some doing well, some doing well but have little money left over b/c HCOL, some squeaking by but loving their lives.
I've very much enjoyed reading about your stories.

As other people have suggested - we're more connected to people for their hobbies than a topic like income. It would be just fine though if we had friends that wanted to share strategies. The closest we got to that was a friend who liked to talk about his investments. I don't think any were very successful. The friend wanted me to believe that they were a great business person when in fact I think parking money in an index fund might have been a better strategy. We lost them to the elections of 2008 and FoxNews. ;)

[ohio4life]

A friend introduced me to this website. We haven't spoken in a few years, but I think he is probably still saving. I have turned one friend on (to some extent) to the FIRE concept. She seems pretty serious about it and we talk about it here and there.

[slappy]

A few years ago, I was wearing my MMM to my son's birthday party. My friend showed up, pointed at my shirt, and said "WHERE DID YOU GET THAT SHIRT? I HATE THAT GUY!" (Yes, this friend leans toward the dramatic.) It was hilarious to me, and then I got to hear all about why he hated MMM. Just last week he texted me that he was going to move to be closing to work. In my opinion, an impulsive move, and not a good financial move, but as he said "c'mon, MMM would love it!"

[Mrs. D.]

Out of curiosity, to the people who don't have Mustachian friends, have you tried to? Like, gone to or organized meetups, looked for local Facebook/Meetup groups, tried to connect with local people from FIRE forums, etc. I'm curious if people's lack of Mustachian friends is more due to lack of the existence of said people, versus lack of trying to find them. Not judging, just curious. I totally get if people just don't see that as a priority as well.

I've made a modest effort. I check the local Mustachian facebook page regularly and have gone to one or two meetups. Chatting with people was nice but it didn't lead to any new friendships. It's hard to get groups together, and we have young kids so we are limited by their schedules. I do find it kind of funny/ironic when I see a mustachian meetup at a bar or restaurant. I haven't gone to any of those, mostly because I'm too mustachian :P

To answer your original question, I have one neighbor/friend who is mustachian and another friend who is fiscally responsible and frugal, although not quite mustachian. Most of the people I know are pretty mainstream spenders (my family are enthusiastic spenders!), but I think a lot of them make decent incomes so maybe they're still saving something? In general, I have very few people I can talk about this with, so DH and I keep each other motivated and I peruse this forum for inspiration.

[Zikoris]

Out of curiosity, to the people who don't have Mustachian friends, have you tried to? Like, gone to or organized meetups, looked for local Facebook/Meetup groups, tried to connect with local people from FIRE forums, etc. I'm curious if people's lack of Mustachian friends is more due to lack of the existence of said people, versus lack of trying to find them. Not judging, just curious. I totally get if people just don't see that as a priority as well.

I've made a modest effort. I check the local Mustachian facebook page regularly and have gone to one or two meetups. Chatting with people was nice but it didn't lead to any new friendships. It's hard to get groups together, and we have young kids so we are limited by their schedules. I do find it kind of funny/ironic when I see a mustachian meetup at a bar or restaurant. I haven't gone to any of those, mostly because I'm too mustachian :P

To answer your original question, I have one neighbor/friend who is mustachian and another friend who is fiscally responsible and frugal, although not quite mustachian. Most of the people I know are pretty mainstream spenders (my family are enthusiastic spenders!), but I think a lot of them make decent incomes so maybe they're still saving something? In general, I have very few people I can talk about this with, so DH and I keep each other motivated and I peruse this forum for inspiration.

Totally agree with you on the restaurants thing. I never have and never will organize a Mustachian meetup in a restaurant or bar. We mostly do picnics and hang out in parks, or in non-COVID times, at my place.

[Just Joe]

Go ahead and meet in a bar or restaurant. Then everyone can order water and bring your own food. ;)

Honestly a manager at work wanted to host an end of project party in a restaurant and wanted everyone to bring a covered dish... Everyone would just buy drinks.
Needless to say we never quite got around to it. None of us wanted to be part of that. Awkward.
Covered dish in a room at work? Sure. And in the end that is what happened.

[Linea_Norway]

I have one very mustachian friend. When I learned about the FIRE concept, I told him about it. He responded that it was an interesting thought. A few years later, he and his wife bought a clown apartment at twice the price of our former clown house. They even had to take up a mortgage. I guess he won't be retiring amy time soon. When we visited him, I didn't remind him of the FIRE concept. But he is still being mustachian otherwise. They don't own a car and both cycle to work. And just like us, he likes to spend his summer vacations in a tent.

We have other friends of whom one is a mustachian, because he grew up with parents who had to watch every penny.  But maybe because of that, he is also a hoarder. Old, non-working vacuum machines are to be kept, because one day he might repair them. By now, they have 3 non-working vaccuums that are still not repaired. The couple drive a sensibly priced car and live in a sensibly priced modest home. But they do own a cabin (with a very old locally stored monster truck), a shared-with-siblings holiday home (former parental home) and a sailboat. I think all these things in total are quite pricy. The man is already retired, taking up early pension in the tradional system, at 62 or so. His SO is much younger and as far as I know still has a study loan. I don't think early retirement is an option for her. She is sometimes into not being stuff or clothes for a year. But I don't think she is that much into saving as her SO.

My other friends might not be mustachian, but I meet them on trips in the forest or other cheap activities. Once a friend invited me to fly a weekend to New York for clothes shopping. I declined, mostly because of environmental reasons. And because I thought it would be an outrageous spend. But we can still meet otherwise. Her SO makes some of his own clothes.

I also have quite a few aquaintances through my mushroom club, who all forage their own food. When we go on a trip with the club, we eat our packed lunches in the forest. But during the yearly meeting at a hotel, I am usually the only one sleeping at a campsite or in a hammock in the forest. The rest will pay the high hotel prices.