Did you guys just jump in full force or start small?

[big_slacker]

Hey all, I just joined the forum after reading several of the articles on the site. This might be a bit long.

I'm super pumped about finding this. I grew up poor and never really cared for having a bunch of 'things'. I've always been drawn to keeping it small and living the life I enjoyed. I lived with roomies and was a snowboard/mountain bike bum till 30. But since then I kind of fell into the typical trap. Got good at some stuff, started chasing after pay and advancement but only using that pay to finance the typical car/suburban house/nice clothes/watch/more expensive bikes and so on.

Of course I probably wouldn't be posting this if I didn't figure out that lifestyle is a bit empty and hamster wheel-ish. And I also realize on the plus size my stupid salary can be used for very quickly building up savings and getting out of this crap for good in short order.

Also, I love/live biking. I don't commute currently (work from home or travel on the company's dime) but if I did have to in the future (and I may very well in the near future) I'd just ride. My wife is on board to some extent. She'd rather have me at home doing family stuff rather than killing myself at a high stress job, and she also has realized at this point of shopping at Nordstrom and eating continually upgrading everything has done nothing for our happiness.

I love baking bread, cooking at home, planted a vegetable garden this year, love hitting the local farmers market and bunch of other things that align with this style of living. As my wife likes to say, I'm genetically cheap coming from Scottish heritage. :)

With that said, I live in one of the most expensive areas in the state (Bellevue WA, I can bike to Bill Gates' pad) and my wife and I both really do like living here. Lake at the end of the block, woods at the other end. Very close to some of the best mountain biking in the state. Super nice people, very friendly and culturally diverse place. And biking distance to the nexus of tech business which is the field I work in.

The car situation... We have a paid for cute ute (VW tiguan) that is our family hauler. Fits the 4 our us without being excessive. That's all we had for quite a while, but I bought a jeep wrangler as a backup/convenience thing and also for offroading, hauling bikes to the trailhead and so on. I justified it somewhat by the truth that I am regularly called to commute to customer sites well out of biking distance, sometimes for weeks at a time (uber, cabs, zipcar would be prohibitive). I fully acknowledge that it's probably the most retarded vehicle you could drive around in if you didn't live on top of a boulder strewn mountain.

The food budget. No getting around this one, we spend an insane amount on food. Budget is $1k/month. That's probably a sin here, but it's a mix of a shit ton of organic produce, really good local beers, eating out and convenience foods for the kiddos.

Pre-schools. OMFG why is this so expensive? I don't know that it's a total ripoff, I'm sometimes amazed at the things my 4 year old comes home and tells me, in a good way. And there isn't a cheaper place anywhere in the area, although I'd explore a parent lead co-op type of thing fo sho!

Ok, so I'm on board with cutting back on this excess, and I'm an engineer. So I know tackling the big stuff (Food, housing, kids, extra car in that order) is the way to make the most impact. But these things will have a serious impact on our lives. Food is doable, I'm a mostly plant based eater and oatmeal, rice 'n beans are already my friends. Wife is good with eating out only once a week and dialing back kid snack. But beer....

The car thing? I'm looking at another job that pays better and is bike commutable and cuts out the random local travel. Fuck it'll hurt giving up the jeep, but I'll do it. But I'll also be giving up work from home.

Moving? I'm not so sure about that one. We have what would be considered a smokin' deal on our rental house (which is still pretty damn expensive) and it really is a super nice laid back area. I'd have to run the numbers but gut feel I'd take a net loss moving to someplace even half as cheap due to lower salary unless I found some kind of super nirvana of a place that was just as nice, cheaper but still with the ridic tech salaries?

All of this to say, in making these major life changes have ya'll just wholesale dove in, sold the cars, picked up and moved, etc.? Or did you maybe start off a little smaller with cutting out bad food choices, household spending and so on? Any specific advice on the above (or yelling, mocking and so on, this being the internet) is appreciated.

[girly mustache]

I find my mmm skills to be a continual evolution. If you're not sure, push pause for a week or month or 6 months - whatever you need to let the idea settle - then you'll know what to do. Each year I think I've maxed out my mustache only to find something new or easier or more efficient. It's a continuum. Enjoy the (bike) ride :)

[JenVegas]

Hi, it seems there are lots of areas to be cut in the budget (groceries, dining out, school costs), but you are living in a tough geographic area to drastically cut back on expenses.  I grew up where you currently live and had to get the heck out due to ever-increasing expenses and commute times.  The people in your town, more than probably any city I've ever been in, have the obsessive disorder of "Keeping Up with the Joneses", and with so much affluence in the area it's sometimes hard to make the financial sacrifices necessary to become financially independent at a reasonable age because EVERYONE is going to Hawaii a few times a year, sending the kids to private schools, eating out constantly (and the restaurants sure aren't cheap!), shopping at high-end retailers and one tends to feel left out and, frankly, weird not doing the same.  My advice is, assuming you're not willing or able to move due to certain commitments -  shop for groceries at Costco and Trader Joe's, avoid the local mall (you know which one I mean) like the Plague, look for a homeschoolers preschool group or find early education classes through the YMCA or park's department, get down to one economic vehicle, and bike or take public transportation when possible.  Even small cuts like eliminating cable TV, dining in more often, driving less, buying organic produce at the public markets versus grocery stores, cutting out the latte runs (SOOOO hard in that climate!), shopping around for lower cell phone providers, etc. can make a difference over time.  I will admit that I'm a reformed spender; I started out by cutting down on the restaurants, groceries, and my three daily coffee runs.  Cable TV is a thing of the past, and I really stop and analyze non-necessity purchases now and ask myself if the item in question is truly going to add to my happiness and well being in the long-run.  More often than not, the answer is "no".

You just need to make the commitment to become financially independent and do whatever it takes to attain that goal - even if it means cutting out the luxuries all your neighbors and friends are enjoying at the expense of their future financial freedom.  After being gone for several years, I'm still shocked when I visit at the sheer excess in spending that I see.  If people can truly afford it and have already reached FI, more power to them and may they spend away with happiness, but from the stories I hear from my friends who have remained, most families with the McMansions and latest European luxury vehicles are living paycheck-to-paycheck chasing the dream that they think material possessions can bring. 

Have you considered central or eastern Washington as an alternative for a few years?  Bellingham also has an up and coming tech sector with significantly lower living expenses and lots of biking trails.  Best of luck on your journey and get those grocery expenses cut by half ASAP!

[happy]

The choice is yours as to whether to do a  quick Mustachian 180, or slow evolution. You're not very clear about your financials but if your hair is on fire you need an emergency 180 regardless.

Not sure how old the kids are, but  kids will inevitably immerse you in the local culture and you may find a tension arising between your values and the values of their friend's parents with regard to how much is spent. It may be hard for them to understand. If they are still preschoolers, it would be wise to think about their likely cohort of peers once they get to school and how you will feel about them being "different". Start drawing the line now, its easier than trying to rein it in as they get older.

Personally I've gone for slow change because it suits my personality and I'm less likely to burn out and give up.

[RunHappy]

I was a slow change person.   I started on the minimalist, debt-free life years before I discovered MMM.  I wanted to regain control of my life and my financial situation, so I started with the contents of my house and bank account.

Somewhere along the debt-free road I discovered MMM.  I was encouraged to take my goals to the next level (no car payment, no debt, and goal of FI).  I'm still a work in progress. 

You have to do what works best for you. 

[Stashing Swiss-style]

Very slow in my case, and still a very long way to go, but oh what a difference it's made already.  I understand so much more about my spending habits and what's important to me.  I've halted the feeling that my "stuff" was owning me and not the other way around.  I started too late and I don't want to make radical changes (husband and 3 kids actually love everything about our current lifestyle), but small changes add up fast.

You'll need to post some financial data if you want real advice from forum members.  They show no mercy but always offer valuable advice and insight.

Good luck. 

[Trifle]

In our case, we were well on the road to FI (fairly frugal, living simple life, no debt except mortgage) two years ago when we discovered MMM's blog.  It helped crystallize and affirm our thinking, and it caused us to really hit the gas toward FI.  The forum is a fantastic place to bounce ideas off knowledgeable folks. Our savings rate went up 20% per month just from things we absorbed on MMM -- and we paid off the mortgage last week.  I would say we are now at "full force" -- but then every month it seems we find another area to address/spending to trim.  It's a very fun process. 

I think the pace at which you move toward FI is completely up to you, but obviously the sooner you can make spending reductions, the sooner you will see results.  And as you say -- start with the big things that will have a big impact and work your way down list. Before you know it, you will see the results and it feels fantastic.   

[soccerluvof4]

I jumped all in with the things i could control as i didnt want to waste another cent and then kept working at the other things i needed to clean up afterwards. Like others its a constant path I keep trying to stay on and get better and smarter at. I would get going in the right direction sooner than later.

[Malaysia41]

I just wanna give props for the use of 'fo sho' in the OP.  Okay, I'm outtie.

[asauer]

We followed the 80/20 rule to begin with (as an engineer, you'll like this)- figure out your cost drivers in order of largest to smallest, start by ruthlessly slashing the costliest 20%- that will generally take care of 80% of your problems.  For us, this was food budget, daycare and recreational shopping.  We severely cut all three of these immediately and didn't touch our other categories for about 3 months.  This really gave us time to adjust to the new way of living and gave us a big confidence boost to tackle the next biggest (travel and hobbies).

[2ndTimer]

Another PNWer here.  You do live in a spendy part of the world but also in one that has great opportunities.  Bellevue probably has the best Indian Grocery stores in the state.  Nothing pricey about learning to cook really good dal and flatbread.  It also has a really excellent Goodwill Store.  I kept the Hub well dressed for his "has his own parking place in downtown Seattle" type job with their clothing.   The arboretum is a gorgeous place for a family picnic. The opportunities are there and over time will become more obvious to you. 

[big_slacker]

I can post more detailed financials later today after work so you guys can get a laugh at how much we've wasted or maybe excited at how much room there is to save.

But for sure as JenVegas says their is a culture of financed yuppiedom. Bellevue Square (the mall mentioned) is an absolute temple to consumerism. With that said, I'm good with going against the grain, I'm the guy ordering a potato and asparagus at company dinner at the steakhouse already, lol!

FWIW already no TV, work pay for my cell plan, cheapest internet plan in the area. It's the food budget, my large purchases (expensive bikes), and sloppy luxury shopping by the wifey that have been killing us.

Like 2ndTimer says there are some ways to do it a lot cheaper and there are a ton of no-cost things to do with kids. We're at the local parks A LOT, free concerts, community farms and so on.

Thanks for the comments folks, much appreciated.

[Erica/NWEdible]

Jumping in as another person that's very familiar with your area (went to HS there). Pros: good public schools, good (ethnic) diversity, excellent salary opportunities. Cons: values, values, values. The cultural miasma of the 3 Points/Medina/Clyde Hill area is so ubiquitously spendy it might be difficult to jump off the spending hamster wheel there. A friend's mom once brushed off the income from her part-time, $10,000-a-year-job with, "I spend more than that on clothes!" I knew multiple 16 year olds who received BMWs for their 16th birthdays. And that's totally normal in that area - many of my HS peers were given more stuff than guidance or time from their parents, and it showed in their entitled behavior.

There are many wonderful things about your area, and many wonderful people there. But there is a local cultural worship of status spending that I don't personally care for. I'd do some soul searching with your wife and figure out if the real opportunities of the area for your family and your kids outweigh the drawbacks of maybe being the odd thrifty family surrounded by big spenders.

That aside, it's ok to go slow - just getting your food budget including eating out to a consistent $700 a month, for example, might not seem like a great achievement compared to MMM's budget, but it would be a great start for your situation. As you adapt, pare down more.

[Malaysia41]

 We used to call Bellevue "little LA" for the flashy status culture. Is it still known as that?

[gillstone]

We moved into this with fits and starts, some changes we were all on board for, but others were harder to make.  You don't have to jump in all the way right now, you can slow roll and see how much even a few small changes can get you.

If you're reluctant to jump in all the way, try this.  Look at your expenses now and do a few mustachian things that you think you can get done.  After a couple months of a reduced food budget or cheaper phones or no cable look at your expenses and look at your life.  I'm willing to bet that you will l find that those few small changes produced a big financial benefit and caused little actual inconvenience or even made your life better.  Then go pick another couple things and see how it goes.

[2ndTimer]

Thank you for reminding me of the Bellevue Mall.  I must go there again sometime just for the people watching. 

[StuckinBoston]

I focused on the "big fish" in my budget first.

(1) We first moved to a less glamorous apartment within biking distance to our jobs.  Which saved 8.5K
(2) The move allowed me to ditch my commuter card, and eventually our car, for a bike/subway.  9K+ savings a year with the bike and one commuter card.
(3) Increased cooking and reduced eating out.  +?
(4) Next, stopped smoking which was very difficult. +3.6K
(5) Then, cut expensive Starbucks coffee +2.2k
(6) Cut cable +1.2k
(7) Phone plans changed +0.5k
...  It becomes fun at some point where you are always looking to shave it further.

Good luck!

[ChaseJuggler]

I'm an all in kind of guy. Within 3 months of finding this site, I sold my car, bought another on craigslist, cut the food budget by 40%, electricity by 25%, auto insurance by 40%, started credit card churning, opened a 457b/401k/t-IRA, and started selling on ebay.

I also have no kids, lots of free time, and a gf who shares the FIRE dream with me. In any other situation I'd probably take it pretty slow.

[Cougar]

 I would advise to take steps.

 I tried to jump in and failed and made some purchases for comfort, only after realizing they really added nothing and kept me dependent.

 When you get to the point that you look at every purchase or monthly bill that could be reduced at stealing your future freedom; you've hit it.

[AliInKY]

When you get to the point that you look at every purchase or monthly bill that could be reduced at stealing your future freedom; you've hit it.

Yep, that's it.  +1

[OldPro]

I'll give you a different perspective big_slacker.

When I decided to FIRE I came up with a 10 year plan and achieved it in 7 years.  But rather than taking the usual 'cut expenses' approach which most people find easiest, I focused on the other 2 paths of increasing income and increasing ROI on investments.

I did start from a decent position however which it sounds like you may not be in yet.  First, no debt.   I've never owned a car I did not pay cash for as an example.  The only exception to the no debt rule is a mortgage.  Owning a house outright reduces your time to FIRE considerably more than probably anything else.  I paid of my house in the first 3 years of my plan.

If someone plans to continue paying rent or a mortgage after they FIRE, they will obviously need a bigger 'pot' to do that.  I see owning a home outright as being a major factor in how soon someone can FIRE.  It isn't just how to reduce expenses that you need to consider from day one, it is also what you will do with the money you aren't spending.

I did not reduce my spending at all really as I did not see that as a problem.  I wasn't interested in changing my lifestyle drastically in order to FIRE.  I was not a spendthrift to start with but neither was I biking to work or not eating steak when I wanted to.  Sometimes I think people go too far in the 'cut expenses' side of things.  The goal is not to live on as little as possible, the goal is to live the rest of your life HAPPILY without needing to work.  It's easy to see the 'means to an end' which is FIRE as being the actual goal.  It isn't.  Too many people looking at FIREing, focus too much on the trees and can't see the forest in my opinion.  Don't get hung up on the 'how to save another $1.75 a week tip'  single focus point.

So cut expenses where it makes sense.  for example, if you are making loan payments on that Jeep.  But don't get carried away with cutting expenses as the only thing to concentrate on.   I was earning a good living but really only 'coasting' as far as how hard I was actually working and applying myself to my job.  By putting nose to grindstone, I tripled my income in 5 years.  Instead of performing just ahead of my peers I went to performing way ahead of my peers and that got me promotions and more income.  You may be able to do something similar.  How you invest the difference between what you spend and what you earn is the third path.  Look for ways to invest for higher returns than average.  I'm not talking about taking risks on the stock market either.  There are countless ways to invest money that have nothing to do with any product a broker sells.

And nope, "When you get to the point that you look at every purchase or monthly bill that could be reduced at stealing your future freedom; you've hit it.", that's not IT.  No offense intended but that is a perfect example of not seeing the forest for the trees.  Cutting costs is NOT the goal.  Living happily without having to work is the goal and cutting costs is only one step in achieving that goal.  Again, I think too many people focus on the 'means to the end' and lose sight of what really is the end goal.

[Colgate_Toothpaste]

I started small.  I realized I had a spending problem and needed some motivation to avoid losing everything to stupid consumerism and a never-ending 1-upmanship contest.

I still like to buy nice things, but I have been much more careful after reading a lot of the advice on this site.

[Candace]

I think it's motivating to start with strategies that seem easier to implement -- sort of like the low-hanging fruit. If those are the ones that save you the most money, great. But if you want to make changes and don't know where to start, it might be good to start by implementing something that's easy for you to implement. You'll get a sense of accomplishment, see your cash flow improve, and want to do more.

Personally I like to try to improve areas that won't impact my lifestyle too badly. For instance, I replaced incandescent light bulbs with LEDs and did a few household projects to improve energy efficiency (plugged leaks, insulated my water heater). This way there's no change in what I do or don't do from day to day, but I will still save money in the long run. Then I also did things that saved more money but also require more effort from me, like cleaning my house instead of hiring someone. And so on and so forth. When it comes to the things you give up in order to become FI sooner, you have to ask yourself (for example) whether you want the fancy car or if you want to stop working sooner. Then it becomes pretty easy to drive a less expensive car.

Good luck! As you can see from the responses, there are as many approaches as there are people.

In other words, one way to go about it is to do what feels good to you first.

[big_slacker]

Ok, I wanted to post up some numbers to give a little perspective to my OP. First about what oldpro posted, I do understand living at a level you're happy with and certainly at a higher income level increasing income and investments may very well net more than something like moving or selling a car. The devil is in the details, and the numbers must be run! :)

Speaking of numbers it looks something like:

Net monthly income after taxes, 401k (6% to net max 6% employer match): $6720
Rent (1500 sq ft 3 bedroom house, 2 adults, 2 kids): -1950
Food: -1000
Auto deposit to savings: -800
Pre-school: -500
Auto deposit for jeep payment: -340 (Payment is lower but I wanted it paid earlier)
Kiddertainment budget: -320 (Eating out, museum admissions, indoor gym entries and so on)
Wifey play budget: -200 (-50/wk play money)
Gas + Electric: -200 (average)
Water and garbage: -120
Car insurance: -115
Diapers and kid sundries: -100
Wifey cell phone plan: -95
Gym + kid care: -55
Internet: -50
Netflix: -8

Total Expenses:

Unclaimed MFin slop: $867. And yeah, this money pretty much disappears to the black hole of meals out with the kids, gas for cars (we don't commute so it's not constant) kid crap, beers, bike accessories, the ridiculous shoe/clothing collection, cosmetics and pretty much all the stupid stuff you'd guess. It evaporates into the coffers of local businesses basically.

In addition, I get quarterly bonus of around $2300 after tax. Those go directly to savings.

[Erica/NWEdible]

Ok, I wanted to post up some numbers to give a little perspective to my OP. First about what oldpro posted, I do understand living at a level you're happy with and certainly at a higher income level increasing income and investments may very well net more than something like moving or selling a car. The devil is in the details, and the numbers must be run! :)

Speaking of numbers it looks something like:

Net monthly income after taxes, 401k (6% to net max 6% employer match): $6720
Rent (1500 sq ft 3 bedroom house, 2 adults, 2 kids): -1950
Food: -1000
Auto deposit to savings: -800
Pre-school: -500
Auto deposit for jeep payment: -340 (Payment is lower but I wanted it paid earlier)
Kiddertainment budget: -320 (Eating out, museum admissions, indoor gym entries and so on)
Wifey play budget: -200 (-50/wk play money)
Gas + Electric: -200 (average)
Water and garbage: -120
Car insurance: -115
Diapers and kid sundries: -100
Wifey cell phone plan: -95
Gym + kid care: -55
Internet: -50
Netflix: -8

Total Expenses:

Unclaimed MFin slop: $867. And yeah, this money pretty much disappears to the black hole of meals out with the kids, gas for cars (we don't commute so it's not constant) kid crap, beers, bike accessories, the ridiculous shoe/clothing collection, cosmetics and pretty much all the stupid stuff you'd guess. It evaporates into the coffers of local businesses basically.

In addition, I get quarterly bonus of around $2300 after tax. Those go directly to savings.

Oh, this is easy. Cut out the slop, enjoy your awesome life.

[BBub]

I'm a 180 proponent.   We adopted the mmm lifestyle almost exactly 2 yrs ago.  Net worth was $50kish, with about 40k in debt.  We are now at about 250k and gaining at a 10-15k clip per month.  We focused on both expenses and income.

Your current expenses are about 5,300 per month.  Required stash at 4% is $1.6 million.  Your current annual savings rate, assuming you start saving the slop, is about $41k.  If starting at 0, at a 7% ror, you'd be there in 19 yrs.

If you can reduce expenses to $4k you'll need $1.2, and have an extra $1,300/mo to save.  This will take about 13 yrs.

Reduce to $3k and it'll take 10.

Reduce to $3k and figure out how to make an extra $2k and you're there in 8.

And these numbers assume you're starting at $0, which I presume isnt the case.  I'd say just work the numbers, play with various scenarios and determine what's workable for your family.  Read every MMM post, and you won't be short on ideas to implement.

[Malaysia41]

"auto deposit to savings" is not an expense.
 
I only say this because the more you mix categories, the more confusing your finances seem.  It's already a lot to keep in the mind.  Why make it more confusing than it needs to be?

[minority_finance_mo]

I am fortunate enough that I started early before my lifestyle could inflate. Basically, I found MMM just before taking my first full-time job after college, which is when people tend to make big purchases (cars, expensive apartments, eating out, etc.)

[big_slacker]

And these numbers assume you're starting at $0, which I presume isnt the case.

It isn't, thanks for the quick breakdown and definitely my next step is modeling it out and finding an initial plan that looks workable. Good post!

[gluskap]

I think if you're in debt or a hair on fire situation then it makes sense to jump in full force.  If not then it's easier to start small but start right away.  The key is to start ASAP as those small changes will start to add up over time.  Once you start seeing success, it might motivate you to make even bigger changes.  The obvious things to start with saving...cut the wife's cell phone plan (look up forum topics on Republic or Ting).  Cut out the slop (eat out less, find free things to do with the kids instead of museums or indoor gyms.  Or if you do go, try to go on days where they are free or find discounts on living social/groupon, etc.). Cut food bill (buy food on sale, cheaper cuts of meat, less organic stuff, etc.).  Cut the gym+kidcare (try to find things you can do to work out for free like jogging, biking, hiking and bring the kids with you).  These seem to be the low hanging fruit.  After that, you might consider some of the bigger things like moving or getting rid of the car.

[crazylemon]

I am fortunate enough that I started early before my lifestyle could inflate. Basically, I found MMM just before taking my first full-time job after college, which is when people tend to make big purchases (cars, expensive apartments, eating out, etc.)

Exactly where I will be When I start work in August. I expect it will go up a bit (no more free gym etc.) in some categories but other than that if I can keep a lid then it should all fall in to place

[2ndTimer]

Something vital to consider is how your family is going to feel about this.  There are tons of threads about what happens when the spouse isn't completely on board.  So you definitely need to come to a clear understanding of what your wife wants and how much she is willing to change your family spending habits.  A spouse who is truly on board is a frugal treasure.  One who isn't can be a serious leak.

[ash7962]

I took a mixed approach.  Some things are easy to make a 180 on (cat insurance that covered almost nothing.. hmm wonder if I should pay for that), so I was immediately able to cut a few hundred from my budget.  There were things that were harder for me like cutting down on amazon purchases (so easy and convenient ugh), so that took a bit longer.  Eventually that desire went away almost completely but still took time.  I also still struggle with the food budget since I live in Chicago so even 1 nice night out totally destroys my budget.  I found in the beginning I went too quickly and relapsed a little, but then eventually got better over time.  Its all personal preference, so go with whatever strategy keeps you on the path to completing your goals.

[Travis]

My MMM journey began with writing down and sticking to a budget.  I knew I was bleeding cash, but no idea where.  I tracked my spending to the dollar for a couple months and discovered the trends.  I then started nipping away at the low-hanging fruit while reevaluating my lifestyle to figure out the bigger stuff.  Around the time that budgeting and cutting spending became second nature I found MMM and learned to break long-held assumptions about how much my life "had" to cost.  After gradually making those changes I devoted more time to investing and learned I was one of those high-fee, advisers-are-killing-you types.  From learning to budget to being mustachian and informed investor took about 18 months.  I wish someone had dumped YNAB, MMM, JCollins, and the Bogleheads on me in a single month rather than finding them one after the other.  I probably could have made the transformation in no more than 6 months.

Unless your hair is on fire, pace yourself and ensure you understand all the decisions you're making until they become a part of you.  Cougar's summary is spot on.  When you can avoid spending money and it doesn't feel like you're denying yourself a human right, you're there.

[big_slacker]

Something vital to consider is how your family is going to feel about this.  There are tons of threads about what happens when the spouse isn't completely on board.  So you definitely need to come to a clear understanding of what your wife wants and how much she is willing to change your family spending habits.  A spouse who is truly on board is a frugal treasure.  One who isn't can be a serious leak.

Wifey is on board, 100%. She is very practical, grew up in communist east europe, helped build her family home, moved to the US on her own. Like me she is a little bit embarrassed about how we've been living. Neither of us started with much, but my rapid income growth is basically a slimmed down version of what happens to lottery winners. Maybe worse since I earned it and we felt we deserved the spending due to the hard work, risks taken, moving away from paradise, etc. We talked at length about what we want to do and what kind of example we want to be for our kids.

So it's started already. Budget is better planned, savings have been upped, grocery budget cut. Extra spending of any type is going on a whiteboard so it's visible. She's riding her bike to the gym and I'm riding mine to the store.

[Bracken_Joy]

Something vital to consider is how your family is going to feel about this.  There are tons of threads about what happens when the spouse isn't completely on board.  So you definitely need to come to a clear understanding of what your wife wants and how much she is willing to change your family spending habits.  A spouse who is truly on board is a frugal treasure.  One who isn't can be a serious leak.

Wifey is on board, 100%. She is very practical, grew up in communist east europe, helped build her family home, moved to the US on her own. Like me she is a little bit embarrassed about how we've been living. Neither of us started with much, but my rapid income growth is basically a slimmed down version of what happens to lottery winners. Maybe worse since I earned it and we felt we deserved the spending due to the hard work, risks taken, moving away from paradise, etc. We talked at length about what we want to do and what kind of example we want to be for our kids.

So it's started already. Budget is better planned, savings have been upped, grocery budget cut. Extra spending of any type is going on a whiteboard so it's visible. She's riding her bike to the gym and I'm riding mine to the store.

This is awesome. I hope you realize your great fortune (slash great spouse selection) that you guys are on the same page. It is so hard to agree with transitions and hard introspection. I wish you both luck!

[big_slacker]

Yeah, for the area it is cheap. And it pains me to say cheap writing that check every month but we got extremely lucky with the timing. The owner used to live there, moved to redmond for whatever reason and had a few renters go through it. He likes me because I treat it like it's my house, fix stuff myself, don't bother him unless something major happens. I've told him I'll stay here as long as he wants to keep renting it and buying the place might be in the future due to the location (lake hills, far away from downtown bellevue and so close to 90). I have been seriously considering stepping out of the consulting/travel game, and if I did I'd likely work in redmond (you know who, haha!) and could bike commute giving the location one more plus.

The pre-school is 3 days/week for 5 hours. Single kid, 4 years old. My 2 year old goes to a co-op, 1 day a week but will probably end up starting at the same pre-school. There is a discount for paying cash and for a sibling. But again, despite being a good deal 'for the area' it's just costly. :)

Homebrew might be a consideration. I do need to cut back on drinking anyway. Not that I'm an alcoholic, but it's not super healthy even for someone as active as me to be drinking 2-4 beers more days than not.

The jeep, oh man... We got by with one car for several years, but the nature of my job means that I might have to spend a week or two at a time for instance commuting to lynnwood or some other random location. It was ok with babies but what happens now if I have to be at a customer site at 8am and the wifey has to find a way to get my son to pre-school without a car? I considered sports cars (I used to ride sportbikes before kids) but they were all slow compared to bikes and expensive. I did put a good chunk down and could pay it off in 6 months or so instead of plowing into savings.

Granted it's a stupid vehicle if it were for commuting every day. But I don't, we fill it up maybe once every 3 weeks. I've had it for 2 years and have less than 10k miles on it (and that includes a road trip to tahoe). Thing is, I get great joy out of driving it. It's manual, roll down windows, manual soft top. It's like driving a tractor. Wifey loves driving it too, she says it feels like freedom. :)

I do offroad it, and it's the primary mountain bike hauler, camping/adventure rig, kids love it. Damn... If I get an office job and can bike commute we could go back to one car. Maybe sell the tiguan and make the jeep our family car, haha! Wonder how the wifey would like it full time vs just for fun.

Wow -- you are getting a STEAL on rent for that neighborhood!  If you do decide to move can I take over your lease :) 

The pre-school costs aren't bad either, in my view -- is that full time or just part time?  And how old are your kids?  Remember, you are in one of the best (if not the best) school districts in the state.  So your kids will be getting a great education and you won't be paying extra for it.

Agree with others that the food and untracked spending are really the areas to focus. And maybe the jeep.  Do you really need the jeep? 

Somebody just posted on the "moving to Seattle" thread about a fruit/produce place on Beacon Hill called MacPherson's, which sounds awesome.  If you eat baked goods there used to be an Orowheat outlet over on 148th near Fred Meyer -- I haven't been there for ages so not sure if it is still there.  Costco is of course your friend as long as you shop judiciously.  The International District isn't that far from you, and maybe there are good Asian markets closer by (as well as the Indian ones mentioned earlier).

Have you considered trying to learn to homebrew as a way to deal with your fondness for beer? 

I wouldn't beat yourself up too much.  You just need to find the right peer group, and there is quite a contingent of Seattle area folks on this board.  I'm hoping to host a MMM get together sometime this summer after I move back and get my housing situation worked out. And there is one planned already for Gasworks on the Thursday night before labor day weekend.

[2ndTimer]

I agree that brewing beer requires that you know who you are.  The Hub started it, loved it and quickly discovered that he can't make military weight (his side hustle is the Nat Guard) drinking a couple of beers every night.  So we gave the brewing equipment to a friend who was into fermenting things.