Author Topic: Dealing with Big Corporate  (Read 14748 times)

Sulurith

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Dealing with Big Corporate
« on: April 03, 2014, 05:43:18 PM »
Hello fellow Mustachians!
I've been reading the blog for a couple weeks now and started lurking the forums. This is my first post outside of my brief introduction, so forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere in great detail. I'm a recent graduate with a BA in economics. I just lucked my way into a job at a Fortune 100 insurance company as a business analyst making about 50k/yr. I've been working here for two months on a "high performing" team which is new to the company, acquiring startups to build infrastructure, and has potential to disrupt the industry.

Sounds great, right? I think so too.

But man does big-corporate suck. A culture of useless meetings and time-sucking activities, poor management, and inter-and-intra-divisional squabbles and politics.
I'm currently living with my parents and as long as I'm still at this job by the end of next May, I should have my ~$32,000 of student loans paid off and I can be ready to move out and start "truly" saving for early retirement.

Thing is, that's going to be 10 years or so of big-corporate away at best.
What are some of your best strategies for dealing with the parts of your job that you don't enjoy?

Freedom2016

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2014, 06:14:51 PM »
Some corporations are (and do) better than others at organizational management, so don't feel like you're stuck if your particular company is bottom-of-the-barrel bad.

One thing that might help is arranging your mindset to avoid falling into complainypants-mode yourself. So you see inefficiencies? Problems? Don't complain about them - think about, and propose solutions. Think about how you can be part of a solution - might add an interesting twist to the work you're already doing.

Of course, do be mindful that, as a noob in the company, you don't want to start acting like you know all the answers after just a few months. A little humility and curiosity will go a long way. There might be good reasons behind all the useless meetings. For example - lots of teams work in silos and never talk to others - and lots of companies have figured out that it's important to do that. So the answer might not be to chuck the meetings, but to think about how to make them more efficient, targeted, and perceived as valuable by those who attend.

Also, the people with good attitudes who show they're trying to solve problems in the workplace (instead of complaining or being passive-aggressive about them) are often the ones who are tapped as "high potentials" or "hi-po's" and advance rapidly in their companies. So it may also serve your FI goals to keep a good attitude and try to be a positive force for change.

But perhaps you're looking for different ways to cope -- getting great hobbies, drawing boundaries to maintain some kind of work-life balance, keeping a ticker of your saved $$$ taped to your computer screen at all times, etc. I'm sure folks will have good ideas on that front.

Sulurith

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2014, 06:43:20 PM »
Some corporations are (and do) better than others at organizational management, so don't feel like you're stuck if your particular company is bottom-of-the-barrel bad.

One thing that might help is arranging your mindset to avoid falling into complainypants-mode yourself. So you see inefficiencies? Problems? Don't complain about them - think about, and propose solutions. Think about how you can be part of a solution - might add an interesting twist to the work you're already doing.

Of course, do be mindful that, as a noob in the company, you don't want to start acting like you know all the answers after just a few months. A little humility and curiosity will go a long way. There might be good reasons behind all the useless meetings. For example - lots of teams work in silos and never talk to others - and lots of companies have figured out that it's important to do that. So the answer might not be to chuck the meetings, but to think about how to make them more efficient, targeted, and perceived as valuable by those who attend.

Also, the people with good attitudes who show they're trying to solve problems in the workplace (instead of complaining or being passive-aggressive about them) are often the ones who are tapped as "high potentials" or "hi-po's" and advance rapidly in their companies. So it may also serve your FI goals to keep a good attitude and try to be a positive force for change.

But perhaps you're looking for different ways to cope -- getting great hobbies, drawing boundaries to maintain some kind of work-life balance, keeping a ticker of your saved $$$ taped to your computer screen at all times, etc. I'm sure folks will have good ideas on that front.

Yes I'm certainly aware of my noob status, two months isn't a whole lot of time in the working world to start suggesting protocol changes. Especially since some of the folks outside of my team don't view my presence as adding that much value, and possible even some, but not all, of the members of my team might even think the same way.

Perhaps the issue is more about apathy than specifically working out those problems. I have no great loyalty to the company and no desire or motivation to improve workflows. My view of my job is a chore to do until I lack the necessity of doing it.
If you've read the Gervais Principle than I would picture myself more of a "minimum performing loser" than a "clueless management man", and definitely not a "sociopath". I have no desire to move up in my company, other than to increase my pay to the median market pay for my position (~65k annual). I have no plans for family, so living cheap and saving 75% is what I intend to do to get out of corporate America.

I have some work that I am planning on doing on the side to increase my income, rather than worrying about managing my "career", as that option is far more palatable to me.

The coping strategies sounds more like what I'm after, though I really do appreciate your well thought out response, Course. It helped me clarify my true attitude towards my job at least a little.

SDREMNGR

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2014, 06:59:24 PM »
It sounds like you are starting off on the wrong foot already.  If I were the management reading this, I'd be thinking about firing you right now.  The problem is that even though the situation and the company may seem like a total loser one, that's just your perception.  That perception may be shared by a fair number of people in your company and your team, which is probably why it's already rubbing off on you.  And it is psychologically difficult to overcome all the external negativity and to be the source of positivity in it's midst, but that's exactly what a "leader" does. 

I like what course11 has to say and it's good advice.  I think there are too many negative people who hide behind their desperate search for FIRE as a means of escape from the drudgery of working and having to do things that they don't want to.  But if you approach it the right way, you can see a lot of positives in your current situation (the steady paycheck notwithstanding).  If there are a bunch of inefficient things going on in your company / group, and you can actually make changes for the better happen, AND you make your boss look good, then you are going to be moving up in the company.  The key part is to always make your boss (or whomever has power to promote you) look good.  I don't mean kiss ass, but work hard, do good work, and be selfless for the group and company.  AND you SHOULD BE getting rewarded for that.  If you work for a company that is too boneheaded to recognize talent and contribution, then you need to look for another company.  There are good companies out there.  Or maybe a better group within the same company with a good leader.  But the world recognizes and rewards talent, ambition, and good work.  It is true that cream rises to the top.  Sometimes it takes a bit longer than you may wish.

You are just starting out in the world of work and it's too early to be jaded and misanthropic already.  Wait until you've been working for at least 10 years. :)

And you may just find that you are not a fit for a big company.  Luckily, there are many small companies out there.  You will find that they also have their challenges.  You have to pick your poison.

Some corporations are (and do) better than others at organizational management, so don't feel like you're stuck if your particular company is bottom-of-the-barrel bad.

One thing that might help is arranging your mindset to avoid falling into complainypants-mode yourself. So you see inefficiencies? Problems? Don't complain about them - think about, and propose solutions. Think about how you can be part of a solution - might add an interesting twist to the work you're already doing.

Of course, do be mindful that, as a noob in the company, you don't want to start acting like you know all the answers after just a few months. A little humility and curiosity will go a long way. There might be good reasons behind all the useless meetings. For example - lots of teams work in silos and never talk to others - and lots of companies have figured out that it's important to do that. So the answer might not be to chuck the meetings, but to think about how to make them more efficient, targeted, and perceived as valuable by those who attend.

Also, the people with good attitudes who show they're trying to solve problems in the workplace (instead of complaining or being passive-aggressive about them) are often the ones who are tapped as "high potentials" or "hi-po's" and advance rapidly in their companies. So it may also serve your FI goals to keep a good attitude and try to be a positive force for change.

But perhaps you're looking for different ways to cope -- getting great hobbies, drawing boundaries to maintain some kind of work-life balance, keeping a ticker of your saved $$$ taped to your computer screen at all times, etc. I'm sure folks will have good ideas on that front.

Yes I'm certainly aware of my noob status, two months isn't a whole lot of time in the working world to start suggesting protocol changes. Especially since some of the folks outside of my team don't view my presence as adding that much value, and possible even some, but not all, of the members of my team might even think the same way.

Perhaps the issue is more about apathy than specifically working out those problems. I have no great loyalty to the company and no desire or motivation to improve workflows. My view of my job is a chore to do until I lack the necessity of doing it.
If you've read the Gervais Principle than I would picture myself more of a "minimum performing loser" than a "clueless management man", and definitely not a "sociopath". I have no desire to move up in my company, other than to increase my pay to the median market pay for my position (~65k annual). I have no plans for family, so living cheap and saving 75% is what I intend to do to get out of corporate America.

I have some work that I am planning on doing on the side to increase my income, rather than worrying about managing my "career", as that option is far more palatable to me.

The coping strategies sounds more like what I'm after, though I really do appreciate your well thought out response, Course. It helped me clarify my true attitude towards my job at least a little.

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2014, 07:49:39 PM »
Even if you can't/don't want to present solutions, writing them down can be therapeutic.

My employer has a lot of organizational efficiencies. Writing out my plan for how it'd be fixed helped me deal with some pent up frustration. Actually executing it isn't an option for me, since I'd have to go from PT to FT, and I know they can't afford to pay me what it would take to do that (they've tried to get me to go FT before, but are always $30K off).

Observe. Think. Plan.

Even if you never present anything, you're using your BRAIN. Suddenly work won't be so much drudgery.

Tetsuya Hondo

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2014, 07:51:19 PM »
SDREMNGR and course11 have dropped some valuable knowledge on you. I'm going to pile on here, but I feel compelled to say it anyway, even if it is a bit redundant, because you sound like me in my first job.

I think that what you're experiencing is common for young employees straight out of college. You feel like a cog in the machine because...well, you are a cog in the machine. But, where you are now is not where you will be in a few years. Or, at least it's not where you have to be. But, you got to pay your dues first.

It's also easy to be cynical and judgmental about how a large company is managed, or mismanaged...until you find yourself in the leadership seat. Then, things start to look a lot different. You start seeing the reasons behind much of the bullshit. You may have been served a few turd sandwiches, but the alternative could have been a... turd buffet? A turd tasting menu?

Anyway, in my own career, and in many others that I've seen, things do start to happen in time if you keep grinding it out. If you can make yourself valuable, then doors will start to open. Rather than doing crap analyst work (or whatever it is in your profession when you begin), you start getting opportunities to lead teams, and then doing business development, and then leading program areas, and then a business line, etc. And then, you may find yourself in a nice position to branch out on your own and go into business for yourself. Or, maybe by then you're making and have saved enough cash to check out of corporate entirely (and have been able to do so much faster than if you kept fucking around putting in the bare minimum in the hinterlands of the org chart).

Anyway, my point is, that even the shit work you're doing now still matters. And the more you put into it now, the more it will show, and the more you'll get out of it later. It may not feel like it, but it can be the quickest route out of the entry-level swamp.

Something else to keep in mind - one of the hard lessons that I learned is that, even in corporate America, it can still be a surprisingly small world. If you have a bad attitude towards it, it's going to show and that's going to close opportunities off to you. When I started out, I was a bit of a punk. I couldn't take much seriously. I thought it was all bullshit. Now, I wish that I would have taken it more seriously, because I could have learned a lot more if I would have just opened my eyes and a few of those doors I closed could have been pretty cool in retrospect. I also could have escaped purgatory sooner. I've since made up for it, but it held me back for a while, until I finally had my little epiphany. Worse, I realize that my attitude was probably more of a defense mechanism than anything else. 

So, as your ghost of Christmas Future, I urge you to: 1) realize that your current situation is temporary (if you're not a punk), and 2) make a plan to work your way into something you do enjoy.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 07:53:16 PM by Tetsuya Hondo »

TreeTired

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2014, 08:13:45 PM »
Quote
But man does big-corporate suck. A culture of useless meetings and time-sucking activities, poor management, and inter-and-intra-divisional squabbles and politics.

I think you have pretty much figured it out correctly. It's scary how accurate Dilbert is.  Do you have any idea how many millions of people think that Dilbert has a spy in their particular office/department because his stories depict exactly what is going on at their place of work?   The truly creative ambitious people go into business for themselves. 

MDM

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2014, 08:21:45 PM »
Perhaps the issue is more about apathy than specifically working out those problems. I have no great loyalty to the company and no desire or motivation to improve workflows. My view of my job is a chore to do until I lack the necessity of doing it.
...
I have no desire to move up in my company, other than to increase my pay to the median market pay for my position (~65k annual).
...
I have some work that I am planning on doing on the side to increase my income, rather than worrying about managing my "career", as that option is far more palatable to me.
[Facepunch mode on]
So you are getting paid $50k/yr to take up space?  And that is ethical because...?  In other words, what have you done to deserve that $50k?

Ok, in all fairness most people only 2 months into the type of job you describe have not earned their pay.  But the expectation is that they are learning and will put forth the effort so eventually they will provide more benefit to the company than the company pays them.

If you think you can do better on your own, then by all means quit your job, go for the solo option, and I sincerely wish you all the best.  Otherwise start behaving ethically, take the very good advice others have given here, and you might surprise yourself and like it.  If you choose to remain a drone, SDREMNGR has it right: the company ought to fire you now, for their benefit (and, believe it or not, yours).
[Facepunch mode off]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and infer that you are somewhat conflicted about your situation and this was a sincere request for advice.  If so, hats off to you for recognizing the issue and best wishes improving things.

MDM

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 08:25:57 PM »
It's scary how accurate Dilbert is.  Do you have any idea how many millions of people think that Dilbert has a spy in their particular office/department because his stories depict exactly what is going on at their place of work?

LOL!  How true!  Except...I know for a fact that everyone else is wrong, and it is my company that has been keeping Scott Adams in material for all these many years ;).

alphalemming

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2014, 09:48:22 PM »
Unfortunately, a lot of the "problems" you mentioned will be found in any large organization.  Fortunately, that creates opportunities for you, many of which don't require you to propose big sweeping changes.  You can do small things, totally within your power, to make things more efficient, less of a time suck, etc.  For example:

- Writing clear concise emails with consistent, descriptive subject lines
- Organizing meetings with clear agendas and objectives.  IF someone doesn't need to be there, don't invite them.
- In your role as an analyst, manager ready, accurate, sourced work is a must

While all of these things may appear to be little minor items, in the eyes of whomever consumes your information, you are saving them time, helping them digest information, etc ... which makes you valuable and creates opportunity.

ModernIncantations

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2014, 11:21:09 AM »
OP I am around your age and have worked in a fortune 100 company that operates exactly as you described. I am now working my dream job. My opinions are not the same as the other posters in this thread. Some observations you may find useful as someone 2-3 years ahead of you, who had a similar mindset:

1. Stop trying to cope. Don't waste time doing useless things if they are really useless. Example: I stopped going to meetings that I felt were useless. I simply announced that I had work to do and couldn't spare the time. I encouraged meeting organizers to "ping" me if they ended up needing me. They never did. Not even once.

2. Become an expert on a small set of critical, poorly understood tasks. This allows you to bully less important (and often low value) tasks away. No one will question that your core work isn't more important. This doesn't mean be a dick to people who need a favor, but be cautious about the work you take on.

3. Make your wins highly visible. Ensure that your boss's boss knows who you are and why you're important. In the same vein, promote your co-worker's wins. This gives both of you visibility. This is all about making allies (and friends).

The purpose of tips 2 and 3 are to increase your leverage (aka job security). The goal is to become indispensable by becoming an expert in a few core tasks, become a valued team member that is recognized by co-workers and different levels of management, and then use that leverage to free your schedule of junk tasks that your less enterprising team members can pick up.

It may take about 6 months of doing 2 and 3 to fully capitalize on 1. Now that you have "free" time you're not going to spend it on bejeweled and facebook. Take this time (was around 1 - 4 hours for me) to become an expert in a related field. I recommend related because I felt it was immoral to get paid to learn skills that didn't benefit my employer, but that's your call. After about 6 more months of studying in my extra time I was able to get a high paying, rewarding job with my favorite company.

My evenings and weekends were free to work on side projects, so in this way I was ableto progress both my career and my side business. Staying late is for suckers (unless it's to accomplish 2 or 3). Remember not to overplay your hand or do anything that would make you a bad person. It's all just a game, and if others want to play the long game instead of a short, big win, good for them.

Oh, and if your boss ever catches you doing a task not strictly work related. Don't panic. Don't minimize or hide anything. Just spin around and have an unsurprised conversation. Of course, if you ignored my advice on how to spend your time, maybe you're screwed.

Sorry other posters if you don't like my subversive suggestions. This is what worked for me.

MDM

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2014, 11:39:16 AM »
Subversive?  Hardly.  Very good and not unlike (complementary at worst to) course11's, for example.

Tyler

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2014, 12:07:31 PM »
My best advice is to always keep a good attitude and say "How can I help?"  Actively dismantle the negativity, both in yourself and in others.

acroy

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2014, 12:53:35 PM »
Welcome Sulurith, congrats on the job & living arrangement (good choices!) and welcome to the Real World

Big companies are very slow and risk-averse. Don’t rock the boat. Hold what you got and try for another 2-3% next year. Yes it is the Dilbert life.

That said, let the big corporation educate the heck outta you about how it all works. Find out what part of the industry you enjoy & is rewarding & profitable. When the time is right, strike out on your own or go to a smaller, faster, hungrier company. You will then be able to do more, faster, bear more responsibility, etc. The Fortune 100 / S&P 500 etc serve best as training grounds for entrepreneurs. Use it!

In the meantime, at work, take care to
-be cheerful & positive
-don’t talk bad behind people’s back
-be an asset to your boss: someone he does not need to worry about
-learn all you can
-dodge the non-productive meetings etc if you can

Be someone your co-workers want to work with, want to be around. People are attracted to positive, energetic people. You should be able to build a good network, get a great reputation. People will talk about you, make sure  it’s all good talk and you represent the best of the company.
 
Best of luck buddy!

AccidentalMiser

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2014, 01:04:08 PM »
What are some of your best strategies for dealing with the parts of your job that you don't enjoy?

Suck it up and be thankful that your sucky corporate job will finance your being able to retire about 30 years ahead of your peers.

Also,
Do crappy jobs that others shy away from and do them well.
When you speak on a subject, consider both sides and offer a well-reasoned opinion.
If you don't have enough information or knowledge to add something to the conversation, don't.
Be aware of the office politics but do your best to stay out of the muck.
To thine own self be true.

Finally,
Get the f- out as soon as possible.

Beridian

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2014, 01:22:18 PM »
Corporate survival strategies:

(1) Find out what one or two qualities your boss most prizes, then deliver these.  If the boss likes productivity numbers, be productive.  If the boss likes snappy dressers, dress snappy.  If the boss is into thorough documentation, be the best documentation guy on the floor.  And be prepared to shift your focus as your bosses change, and yes they will change.  Be a suck up, give the man what he wants and you'll be fine, enjoy the ride and max out your 401k.

(2) When in meetings, better to sit there with your mouth shut letting everyone think you are and idiot instead of opening your mouth and removing any doubt.

(3) Someone else said it but it bears repeating, learn to do the jobs that everyone else hates and avoids, this will make you indispensable to the operation and promote your corporate longevity.

(4) Keep repeating over and over in your mind "its only a game, its only a game".  Play the game well and do not get overly obsessed with it all.   Quit at quitting time, go home and have a beer.   
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 01:31:41 PM by Beridian »

Freedom2016

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2014, 01:31:37 PM »
Gosh, there is some great stuff in this thread!!!

Midwest

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2014, 01:52:35 PM »

Perhaps the issue is more about apathy than specifically working out those problems. I have no great loyalty to the company and no desire or motivation to improve workflows. My view of my job is a chore to do until I lack the necessity of doing it.
If you've read the Gervais Principle than I would picture myself more of a "minimum performing loser" than a "clueless management man", and definitely not a "sociopath". I have no desire to move up in my company, other than to increase my pay to the median market pay for my position (~65k annual). I have no plans for family, so living cheap and saving 75% is what I intend to do to get out of corporate America.

I'm a mid career professional making decent money, so take this as you will:
a) If you maximize your salary and minimize your expenses, you will retire sooner.  Being a "minimum performing loser" will not maximize your salary.
b) Minimum performing losers are the first to be let go in an economic downturn.  Being unemployed will not contribute to early retirement.

I would suggest you project a positive attitude at your job and put in some extra effort.  If you don't like your situation, set yourself up to do something else.  My profession is an opportunity to get capital so I don't have to work (but may choose to).

ModernIncantations

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2014, 02:20:42 PM »
I found that mentally checking out felt very unnatural. Know that intentionally being uninvested is a very dangerous habit.

jba302

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2014, 02:27:09 PM »
If you've read the Gervais Principle than I would picture myself more of a "minimum performing loser" than a "clueless management man", and definitely not a "sociopath". I have no desire to move up in my company, other than to increase my pay to the median market pay for my position (~65k annual). I have no plans for family, so living cheap and saving 75% is what I intend to do to get out of corporate America.

We're seriously almost the same person. I am you 8 years from now with some variations -

I graduated with a degree in economics and had no idea wtf I wanted to do. I ended up in claims (which is like the dead man's pool of "don't know what to do") and was immediately marked as a high performer. I managed this by taking the sociopath route of Venkat's discussion - minimal necessary performance in the core requisites of the job which freed up time to work on efficiencies of processes and fluff projects (partial loser with sociopath qualities). Upper management loved that shit and they ignore the shortfalls of your day-to-day work, though it requires a balancing act with your direct manager (very tense but she had no chance, I was a High Performer and she was underqualified to be anyone's manager let alone mine). Stepping over your manager only works if you manager is truly Clueless, which mine was and I ended up getting put into a corporate leadership program.

The problem came up when I ended up in a corporate job and hit a stark truth - I am not Ven's sociopath. I hate powerspeak. I hate marketing myself. I ended up retracting hard from the company and had assess why I ended up there and what failed. I am now training into another role as a business analyst with the predictive analytics department of a smaller insurance company. Why? Very simple - I love problem solving, efficiency seeking, MINIMAL bureaucracy. And I coded solutions in Basic for a lot of my projects, so learing SQL and R is a small effort. First time in almost a decade that a job is appealing to me. But it took a LONG TIME to get this figured out.


Here's what I have to share -
1. Finding what you love immediately is not the norm, or even somewhat common. You hear about it a lot because the people that love their job won't shut up about it (a good thing).
2. Everything is an opportunity to learn. Find your passions within your current job and figure out how to leverage that.
3. Make yourself visible, as was already discussed. More visibility begets more opportunities, which means you get more chances to learn and see what you like.
4. Almost everyone hates something about their job. Most companies have glaring inefficiencies that you cannot control and will not fix. Not your problem unless it's your problem.
5. AT SOME POINT, if you pay attention to yourself, you will find out what makes you tick and how to shove that into a job that won't result in you standing on a ledge at 45. Then you will be making really good money by being amazing at something you can tolerate / enjoy.

Sulurith

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2014, 04:22:11 PM »
Coming back to this thread a day later and there is a lot of really good information here.

I'm essentially taking everyone's advice at once.
I haven't let on with the negativity to my co-workers or managers, and got some positive feedback today re: some work I had done last week for a group of data scientists I work closely with.

My team, being what it is, is about moving as quickly as you can in this mega-corporate environment. I had some brief talks with my boss' boss about the work I enjoyed and he came back to me with finding a way to move into the data science world more deeply and leaving behind some of this analyst/project management work.

I of course immediately said that was what I wanted to do, as the data science work is the work I have enjoyed most about my job, so I may be able to get a Master's in predictive analytics on the company's dime in the relatively near future, work with the people I get along with the best, and double my pay while I'm at it.

Looking at my post it sounds more negative than my attitude truly is for my job, and to those of you who say "be grateful for what you've got, and don't waste their time and suck up their money", I just want to say that I completely hear you and it wasn't my intention to communicate such a negative tone about my job. I do have a good idea of how lucky I am right now.

Thanks for all of your input everyone! There were definitely some things I wouldn't have thought of here.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 04:24:32 PM by Sulurith »

Kriegsspiel

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2014, 04:27:54 PM »
I usually put on some 80s music. Then I go to my cave and find my power animal. He's a lemur named Fred.

brewer12345

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2014, 04:48:42 PM »
It sounds like you are starting off on the wrong foot already.  If I were the management reading this, I'd be thinking about firing you right now.  The problem is that even though the situation and the company may seem like a total loser one, that's just your perception.  That perception may be shared by a fair number of people in your company and your team, which is probably why it's already rubbing off on you.  And it is psychologically difficult to overcome all the external negativity and to be the source of positivity in it's midst, but that's exactly what a "leader" does. 

With respect, what a crock of shit.  OP has discovered that being in a large company sucks elephant dong.  He is a bit discouraged and not invested in the knowledge worker equivalent of screwing the caps on tubes of toothpaste.  What did you expect him to do?  Do a handstand, sing the company fight song, and tattoo the corporate logo on his ass?  Please.  Save the management apologetics for your superiors.  These jobs suck and that is all there is to it.

To OP, this should be your wake-up call.  People on this forum tell me that dreams jobs fall out of the sky and land in your lap all the time, but from what I have seen and done this is as realistic as expecting to commute to work via rainbow unicorn.  You should view yourself as You, Inc., a specialist consulting firm that happens to have one client at a time.  Do what your client has hired you to do and along the way learn as much valuable stuff on the job as possible.  Always be thinking about and looking for your next client engagement at a higher level and more pay.  You should be thinking like a mercenary.  If you stay with a particular firm for more than 3 years you are probably being underpaid if you have been diligently adding to your skill base and marketability.  Plan to move around every few years or at least interview enough to verify your pay is still at current market.  Of course, while you are on a client engagement get your stuff done in a timely and high quality manor to ensure your current client remains happy with your services.

Naturally the end game to heap up a big enough pile of assets that you no longer have to play this game.

Dr. Doom

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2014, 05:35:41 PM »
Lots of good advice here.  I'll add:

- Use exercise as a coping device if you don't already.  It'll help you mellow out at work.  The world at large looks better when you have a post-workout buzz acting on you like a combo stimulant/anti-anxiety med cocktail.
- Similarly, try not to use alcohol as a crutch.  It'll make things worse.  An average job looks much shittier than it actually is when you're hung over.  Trust me, I know.
- Don't publicly complain about stuff, no matter how much you dislike the job, your co-workers, or the culture.  Being labeled as poison a bad, bad thing for you.  The tag will never go away, even if you change your behavior later.
- Even if you don't love your function -- god knows I don't -- make an effort to improve and get better at it anyway.  People tend to like things they're good at.  I developed more of a tolerance for my job over time because as my ability improved I found the nuances became more interesting.  And as many others have already mentioned, being a higher performer at work has the added benefit of opening doors to more challenging work.  Plus, when you're fully present and engaged, time passes faster and you feel better emotionally.
- Don't ever tell your co-workers that you're planning on retiring early and leaving all of them in the dust.  It might be tempting as you move along your journey, but I would strongly caution against it.  They'll mock you behind your back at best, hate you openly at worst.  It'll appear that you have a bad attitude.
- Sometimes it just takes time to feel plugged in.  2 months isn't that long at all.  Try telling yourself you'll stick it out for a full year and then re-evaluate how things are going.  Be patient.
- Practice daily gratitude.    This gig is going to let you FIRE.  So many people in the world have it so much worse -- you're very lucky to be in the position you're in.

I say all this with complete understanding:  I've found the work environment to be incredibly disappointing.   But in all likelihood it'll surprise you and actually get better over time.



Edit:  Grammar. 
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 05:39:49 PM by Q_Train »

Freedom2016

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2014, 05:44:11 PM »
It sounds like you are starting off on the wrong foot already.  If I were the management reading this, I'd be thinking about firing you right now.  The problem is that even though the situation and the company may seem like a total loser one, that's just your perception.  That perception may be shared by a fair number of people in your company and your team, which is probably why it's already rubbing off on you.  And it is psychologically difficult to overcome all the external negativity and to be the source of positivity in it's midst, but that's exactly what a "leader" does. 

With respect, what a crock of shit.  OP has discovered that being in a large company sucks elephant dong.  He is a bit discouraged and not invested in the knowledge worker equivalent of screwing the caps on tubes of toothpaste.  What did you expect him to do?  Do a handstand, sing the company fight song, and tattoo the corporate logo on his ass?  Please.  Save the management apologetics for your superiors.  These jobs suck and that is all there is to it.


All big companies suck elephant dong? Really? Have you worked for all of them?

I'm not a fan of global generalizations and stereotypes, and in my 15+ years of consulting with companies ranging from Fortune 5 to barely-off-the-ground service organizations, every single kind of human organization comes with challenges and difficulties. There may be patterns to the kinds of challenges a given type of company faces (yes - being slow-moving and risk-averse is common in bigger ones), but there is definitely a lot of variation both within, and across, companies in any given sector.  I have a student right now working for a Fortune 500 tech company--not a start-up--that is moving so fast he can barely keep up. So much for the slow-moving and risk averse stereotype.

I also think it's a mistake to draw global conclusions about a company/industry based on just 2-3 months of experience in the work world. OP's perspective is likely to be different after a year, or after 5 years.

I like the advice you give, though.

brewer12345

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2014, 06:05:49 PM »

All big companies suck elephant dong? Really? Have you worked for all of them?

I'm not a fan of global generalizations and stereotypes, and in my 15+ years of consulting with companies ranging from Fortune 5 to barely-off-the-ground service organizations, every single kind of human organization comes with challenges and difficulties. There may be patterns to the kinds of challenges a given type of company faces (yes - being slow-moving and risk-averse is common in bigger ones), but there is definitely a lot of variation both within, and across, companies in any given sector.  I have a student right now working for a Fortune 500 tech company--not a start-up--that is moving so fast he can barely keep up. So much for the slow-moving and risk averse stereotype.

I also think it's a mistake to draw global conclusions about a company/industry based on just 2-3 months of experience in the work world. OP's perspective is likely to be different after a year, or after 5 years.

I like the advice you give, though.


Hahahahaha!!  Consulting does not show you what the bowels of a large company are like.

There is a reason Dilbert is wildly popular.

Freedom2016

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2014, 06:31:12 PM »

All big companies suck elephant dong? Really? Have you worked for all of them?

I'm not a fan of global generalizations and stereotypes, and in my 15+ years of consulting with companies ranging from Fortune 5 to barely-off-the-ground service organizations, every single kind of human organization comes with challenges and difficulties. There may be patterns to the kinds of challenges a given type of company faces (yes - being slow-moving and risk-averse is common in bigger ones), but there is definitely a lot of variation both within, and across, companies in any given sector.  I have a student right now working for a Fortune 500 tech company--not a start-up--that is moving so fast he can barely keep up. So much for the slow-moving and risk averse stereotype.

I also think it's a mistake to draw global conclusions about a company/industry based on just 2-3 months of experience in the work world. OP's perspective is likely to be different after a year, or after 5 years.

I like the advice you give, though.


Hahahahaha!!  Consulting does not show you what the bowels of a large company are like.

There is a reason Dilbert is wildly popular.

Another assumption on your part; my consulting involves advising these companies on some of their most challenging internal problems, so - yes, I do get to see the bowels.

But, sure, okay. Dilbert: the end. Gotcha.

Peace.

FunkyStickman

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2014, 08:04:32 PM »
Lots of good advice here.  I'll add:

- Use exercise as a coping device if you don't already.  It'll help you mellow out at work.  The world at large looks better when you have a post-workout buzz acting on you like a combo stimulant/anti-anxiety med cocktail.
- Similarly, try not to use alcohol as a crutch.  It'll make things worse.  An average job looks much shittier than it actually is when you're hung over.  Trust me, I know.
- Don't publicly complain about stuff, no matter how much you dislike the job, your co-workers, or the culture.  Being labeled as poison a bad, bad thing for you.  The tag will never go away, even if you change your behavior later.
- Even if you don't love your function -- god knows I don't -- make an effort to improve and get better at it anyway.  People tend to like things they're good at.  I developed more of a tolerance for my job over time because as my ability improved I found the nuances became more interesting.  And as many others have already mentioned, being a higher performer at work has the added benefit of opening doors to more challenging work.  Plus, when you're fully present and engaged, time passes faster and you feel better emotionally.
- Don't ever tell your co-workers that you're planning on retiring early and leaving all of them in the dust.  It might be tempting as you move along your journey, but I would strongly caution against it.  They'll mock you behind your back at best, hate you openly at worst.  It'll appear that you have a bad attitude.
- Sometimes it just takes time to feel plugged in.  2 months isn't that long at all.  Try telling yourself you'll stick it out for a full year and then re-evaluate how things are going.  Be patient.
- Practice daily gratitude.    This gig is going to let you FIRE.  So many people in the world have it so much worse -- you're very lucky to be in the position you're in.

I say all this with complete understanding:  I've found the work environment to be incredibly disappointing.   But in all likelihood it'll surprise you and actually get better over time.


This, right here, is the best advice in this whole thread up to this point. I've been in corporate sludgery for a while, this one particular company for about 8 years. These are all methods I use to cope with it.

In my office, I'm the super-positive one. I always have a snappy, happy comeback about how my day is going (unless it's Friday afternoon... there's no way to smooth that over in a believable way). I wear Hawaiian shirts on Fridays (nobody else does). I dance by the coffee machine, I sing when I can, I smile at people a lot. I try to make the best of it, so that when I sit and plug into my spreadsheets, I'm not totally frustrated.

It's a lot of work to enjoy sludgery, but for what they're paying me, it's worth it.

I had to stop bringing my guitar to play at break time, though... got written up for that. Had to dial it back a bit.

Shor

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2014, 08:33:28 PM »
I had to stop bringing my guitar to play at break time, though... got written up for that. Had to dial it back a bit.
Mr. Stickman,
We noticed you were being exceptionally happy in the office recently. While we appreciate your hard work, we would really like you to fit in with the accepted reluctant compulsory work culture. We hope you understand.

Btw, we broke your guitar.
It was not an accident.
We did it. BE SAD!!!

Love,
HR Department

mboulder

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2014, 09:58:44 AM »
As a 20 year veteran of the corporate grind, I'm not sure I agree with a lot of what's posted here. A lot is just simply cliche advice lacking any real substance ("Just keep a positive attitude!"), and some advice I've taken and had it not be good. For example, the idea of becoming good at the tasks that are poorly understood or that nobody likes to do. Yeah, I did that in multiple companies, and I know others who did too. What ended up happening is that I was pigeonholed doing the same crap tasks day in and day out, while other not-as-competent employees got all of the good, fun and high visibility projects, because I was "indispensable" and therefore had to keep working the crap.

People (mostly not on this forum) and corporations will fill your head with lots of really bad platitudes like "we need to work smarter!" and "let's give 110%!" and "we can accomplish this with a little hard work!" Yeah, whatever, it is in the corporate self-interest to get you to work as hard as they can for as little expense as possible, always adding more to your plate instead of hiring someone new, and it's easy for them to do because the US seems to have this culture of "hard work pays off". I changed my mind about that when I started working with European and Australian counterparts within my company (so my peers) and saw that they didn't have that attitude, they didn't kill themselves, they had more time off and worked little if any overtime, and they still got work done. And they were happier.

So what I've learned:

- As others say, visibility is key and takes little effort. I learned early on that the work you do isn't as important as the work everyone thinks you do. So you have to advertise what you do and be visible. If you work hard and accomplish a lot and nobody knows, it doesn't help your career.

- Do be a team player, be open and listen to others, but don't be taken advantage of by doing the crap work while others on your team reap the rewards. Be visible so everyone knows what you brought to the table. If you don't like your job, don't bitch about it at work. Go on a forum and vent instead. ;)

- Work/Life balance is super important. Every company will go on and on and on about how they support it and want to help you achieve it, that's just them using psychology to make you think they support it and to help you feel better. It is up to YOU, and only YOU to work to achieve work/life balance. It is up to YOU to understand the work/life balance programs that your office offers, and USE THEM. Your boss won't do it for you. They won't insist you take some time off, or use flex time to build a schedule that is beneficial to you personally instead of only to the office. There is some sick statistic of the number of US workers who don't use their entire allotted vacation every year. American workers already get shit for vacation days compared to other westernized countries. You'd better be using every minute they give you. You need that time to recharge!  While you are at it, figure out your passions outside of work and cultivate them. That, plus the relationships you have, is really important. Don't make all your friends be your coworkers either. Coworker friends are fine, but it's nice to have that separation from work as well in your off-time.

- Your career is just starting, so you are mostly in a learning mode at this point. The fact is a lot of bosses and team leads just suck at it. They don't know the studies that show how meetings lose productivity after the first 15 or 20 minutes, they tend to suggest methods of doing your job that amount to inefficient brute force, they latch on to fads, they micromanage, they fill your time with stupid tasks. You may very well be stuck with a team lead like this, and it sucks. If so, figure out what other leads in your org are not like this, and use them as a mentor and learn all you can, network with them all you can, and see if you can guide your career towards working with these people more, even joining their team if the opportunity arises. A good boss makes a huge, huge difference, especially if they shield you from all the politics and other dumb crap.

- If politics or drama arise - and it will - remember that it is just work, and in the scheme of things they just aren't important. I'd suggest learning to meditate as that can help you feel a feeling and let it go. It does wonders. As a corollary to this, try not to wrap your identity up in your work. Nobody wants their tombstone to read "Here lies xyz. He was a good GlobalMegaSuper Corporation Employee." Figure out what's really important to you, outside of work, and when you aren't at work try not to even think about it. Focus on the really important stuff.

- You need to figure out what your maximum level of crap is and stick to it. This might take you some time as you are just starting out. Is it worth working a ton of overtime, doing crap tasks, dealing with a bunch of politically motivated idiots in the hopes you get an extra 1% bonus or a promotion? Keep in mind that promotion might lead to even more overtime, more crap tasks, and dealing with more idiots who now have even more power because they are upper management. So what is the ROI for you? Is the extra money worth the tradeoff? What is your limit? My life became easier when I realized I made enough to meet my financial goals, and I stopped going "above and beyond" because the ROI just didn't make sense. Why should I kill myself to get a promotion to a job that means killing myself even more? I still get my work done, still am visible, so I'm not saying be lazy. Sure, a little extra money is nice and I might retire a year early, but the years leading up to that just got worse. Yuck.

- Structure your financial world around leaving work. Don't look at it as "I'm stuck here until I'm FI." Look at it is "if I have no debt and a large amount stashed in investments, I will have more options. I can, for instance, quit my high paying high pressure job and take a lower paying job that is more meaningful to me". Based on your savings rate, make a ballpark guess as to when you will reach FI. Then, if you are thinking about making a big purchase, like a new computer or something, calculate how much time you'll have to add to that FI date to also pay off the purchase (plus extra to cover maintaining it), and consider if working the corporate world that much longer in exchange for the purchase is worth it. Sure, a few things here and there adds only a week or so, whatever, but that adds up.

- If nothing improves try to move your career in the direction you want. Again, your company won't do this, YOU have to do this. Remember that your job in most corporations is simply to make a bunch of rich stockholders even richer, sometimes at the expense of the environment, privacy, the working class, or whatever. If this bothers you, plan a way to leave the situation. It will take time, even years. Are you interested in human services? Try to volunteer at a non-profit. I do this, and not only is it rewarding personally, but employees there have taken notice and I may be able to parlay it into a work opportunity down the road, possibly just part time since my finances give me that opportunity.

- Read Dilbert. There is a reason he includes his email address in his strips - people submit ideas to him all the time based on their own experiences. So his strip is like a cathartic venting session among drones unhappy in the corporate world.

- Go hiking, because nature is just cool.

Good luck!

marty998

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2015, 04:39:44 PM »
Beautiful post micdalli

As a 20 year veteran of the corporate grind, I'm not sure I agree with a lot of what's posted here. A lot is just simply cliche advice lacking any real substance ("Just keep a positive attitude!"), and some advice I've taken and had it not be good. For example, the idea of becoming good at the tasks that are poorly understood or that nobody likes to do. Yeah, I did that in multiple companies, and I know others who did too. What ended up happening is that I was pigeonholed doing the same crap tasks day in and day out, while other not-as-competent employees got all of the good, fun and high visibility projects, because I was "indispensable" and therefore had to keep working the crap.

I'm a 10 year 'veteran'. I do the tasks no one else has the experience to do. I get pigeonholed for it now too, echo your sentiments...

People (mostly not on this forum) and corporations will fill your head with lots of really bad platitudes like "we need to work smarter!" and "let's give 110%!" and "we can accomplish this with a little hard work!" Yeah, whatever, it is in the corporate self-interest to get you to work as hard as they can for as little expense as possible, always adding more to your plate instead of hiring someone new, and it's easy for them to do because the US seems to have this culture of "hard work pays off". I changed my mind about that when I started working with European and Australian counterparts within my company (so my peers) and saw that they didn't have that attitude, they didn't kill themselves, they had more time off and worked little if any overtime, and they still got work done. And they were happier.

It's different here in Aus, you are right. Most companies will try and do the right thing by you. The focus in my employer is on productivity - not so they can fire staff, but so they can free up our time to earn profit for the Company, instead of doing pointless compliance work.


So what I've learned:

- As others say, visibility is key and takes little effort. I learned early on that the work you do isn't as important as the work everyone thinks you do. So you have to advertise what you do and be visible. If you work hard and accomplish a lot and nobody knows, it doesn't help your career.

Send an email to your boss, and your manager once removed each wednesday. Call it team wins or whatever, and list everything your team has accomplished during the week

- Do be a team player, be open and listen to others, but don't be taken advantage of by doing the crap work while others on your team reap the rewards. Be visible so everyone knows what you brought to the table. If you don't like your job, don't bitch about it at work. Go on a forum and vent instead. ;)

No use doing work that no one understands or appreciates. It may need to be done, but call it out so everyone knows

- Work/Life balance is super important. Every company will go on and on and on about how they support it and want to help you achieve it, that's just them using psychology to make you think they support it and to help you feel better. It is up to YOU, and only YOU to work to achieve work/life balance. It is up to YOU to understand the work/life balance programs that your office offers, and USE THEM. Your boss won't do it for you. They won't insist you take some time off, or use flex time to build a schedule that is beneficial to you personally instead of only to the office. There is some sick statistic of the number of US workers who don't use their entire allotted vacation every year. American workers already get shit for vacation days compared to other westernized countries. You'd better be using every minute they give you. You need that time to recharge!  While you are at it, figure out your passions outside of work and cultivate them. That, plus the relationships you have, is really important. Don't make all your friends be your coworkers either. Coworker friends are fine, but it's nice to have that separation from work as well in your off-time.

Work/life? Sometimes I think it's a work/work balance, especially the ones who check their emails and take their work home with them. Some people like to work from home and thats ok. I don't, so I drew up boundaries. Work is for work, home is for me.

- Your career is just starting, so you are mostly in a learning mode at this point. The fact is a lot of bosses and team leads just suck at it. They don't know the studies that show how meetings lose productivity after the first 15 or 20 minutes, they tend to suggest methods of doing your job that amount to inefficient brute force, they latch on to fads, they micromanage, they fill your time with stupid tasks. You may very well be stuck with a team lead like this, and it sucks. If so, figure out what other leads in your org are not like this, and use them as a mentor and learn all you can, network with them all you can, and see if you can guide your career towards working with these people more, even joining their team if the opportunity arises. A good boss makes a huge, huge difference, especially if they shield you from all the politics and other dumb crap.

I never ask my team to do anything I wouldn't do myself. Learned from too many previous managers who set tasks that they thought were great to do but detracted from "actual work". Keep meetings to a minimum, if you don't think it's worth going, just say "fill me in later". Never voice displeasure during a meeting if you think it's a waste of time. Instead, if your boss likes meetings, ask him or her what you can do to make them more productive.

- If politics or drama arise - and it will - remember that it is just work, and in the scheme of things they just aren't important. I'd suggest learning to meditate as that can help you feel a feeling and let it go. It does wonders. As a corollary to this, try not to wrap your identity up in your work. Nobody wants their tombstone to read "Here lies xyz. He was a good GlobalMegaSuper Corporation Employee." Figure out what's really important to you, outside of work, and when you aren't at work try not to even think about it. Focus on the really important stuff.

They will arise, they are a fact of life. Some politics is healthy. If there's none in your workplace, then you can bet the smallest thing will set someone off. You'd rather things blow up over big things rather than little petty things. But never let it blow up in the workplace, and don't snitch on anyone. If you don't like the politics, just keep your head down and continue working

- You need to figure out what your maximum level of crap is and stick to it. This might take you some time as you are just starting out. Is it worth working a ton of overtime, doing crap tasks, dealing with a bunch of politically motivated idiots in the hopes you get an extra 1% bonus or a promotion? Keep in mind that promotion might lead to even more overtime, more crap tasks, and dealing with more idiots who now have even more power because they are upper management. So what is the ROI for you? Is the extra money worth the tradeoff? What is your limit? My life became easier when I realized I made enough to meet my financial goals, and I stopped going "above and beyond" because the ROI just didn't make sense. Why should I kill myself to get a promotion to a job that means killing myself even more? I still get my work done, still am visible, so I'm not saying be lazy. Sure, a little extra money is nice and I might retire a year early, but the years leading up to that just got worse. Yuck.

My limit is where I am now. I'm not cut-out for senior management. I'm happy with the relatively stress free job I've got that I'm experienced and highly competent at. Important to remember not to stand still. If you don't take ownership of your career, someone else will. And you may not like the results.


FunkyStickman

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2015, 11:54:50 AM »
I'm sitting here, ticked at my boss. He came up to me yesterday and said "I heard you talking to someone about what you did over the weekend for like 5 minutes. Try not to do that."

I wanted to slap the daylights out of him and shout "STOP MICROMANAGING!"

I still despise corporate B.S. with every fiber of my being. It's only a matter of time before I can escape, hopefully with my sanity intact.

okits

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2015, 12:03:17 PM »
I'm sitting here, ticked at my boss. He came up to me yesterday and said "I heard you talking to someone about what you did over the weekend for like 5 minutes. Try not to do that."

I wanted to slap the daylights out of him and shout "STOP MICROMANAGING!"

I still despise corporate B.S. with every fiber of my being. It's only a matter of time before I can escape, hopefully with my sanity intact.

I'm surprised he doesn't have more appreciation for your positive attitude. Someone who is happy (or works on being happy) is so good for office atmosphere. 

Drifterrider

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2015, 12:18:56 PM »
What are some of your best strategies for dealing with the parts of your job that you don't enjoy?

I remember that this is my job, not my life.  I'm here to make money (and from the sound of it you started off with a better than average salary).  At the end of the day I hit the mental "off" switch and leave work at work.




Gone Fishing

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2015, 01:36:35 PM »
Wonder how the OP is getting along?  (This thread is over 12 months old for those who didn't notice.)

As I wind down my corporate career I have done quite a bit of reflection on it.   Here are a few things that I have noticed:

Some people just fit in the corporate world better than others.  They actually like sucking up to the boss, playing politics and managing reports.  I do not, but I was still able to move up reasonably without playing too many games.

Companies vary tremedously across divisions, departments, managers, etc., some are much better than others.

You can make quite a career for yourself and get the "new job" feeling by strategically moving around inside a large company without losing any of your longevity compensation. 

Don't pick an number ($65k for the OP) and think that when you reach it, you are at the top.  I make almost twice what I used to think was good pay.  You can always improve in some way by either getting a job doing the same work for more money, less work for the same money or best of all, less work for more money.  Despite what we all want to believe, income is poorly correlated with how hard you are working.  I have never felt like my promotions have correlated well with my trailing productivity.  It may be a function of my industry/company culture, but I have always felt that I have been promoted based on "years of experience" or in other words because I was "old" enough in their eyes despite my skillset for the particular job I was performing at the moment.  The key was the ability to negotiate for the promotion as soon as possible in management's eyes which is much easier if you don't have a bunch of black marks next to your name and you are a decent performer.  You do not necessarily need to be the top performer.  As one member has in their signature, "You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate".

Some industries/companies/managers are MUCH more willing to promote young people.  If you find yourself in an environment that does not promote young people quickly, look for something else.  In my experience, managers that rose quickly themselves were a better bet than those who didn't.

The decade(s) it takes to reach FI for most people is a LONG time.  Way too long to spend wishing your life away waiting for FI.   In order to pass the time, you have to almost let yourself become a worker drone (letting all the BS flow over around and through you) but without self medicating (spending) like all the other drones.  You have to build a fulfilling life outside of work even if it does cost a little money and delay FI by a bit.  If not, you run the risk of just retiring FROM work and not having anything to retire TO when the time comes (a problem several forum members have faced).       

   

 

MandalayVA

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2015, 01:36:35 PM »
What are some of your best strategies for dealing with the parts of your job that you don't enjoy?

I remember that this is my job, not my life.  I'm here to make money (and from the sound of it you started off with a better than average salary).  At the end of the day I hit the mental "off" switch and leave work at work.

^^^^THIS.  Cultivate the "I work to live, I don't live to work" attitude.  On a typical day I leave the office at 4:45 and have forgotten the day by 4:50.  It's the best.

As a 20-year veteran of the Corporate Circus, the last ten years with a company whose corporate culture is notorious for being one of the worst, if I can give you any other advice it would be STAY OUT OF MANAGEMENT.  You will be treated like absolute garbage, which is turn will cause you to treat anyone under you like that just to stop the bitching from your higher-up.

OSUBearCub

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2015, 01:53:28 PM »
Wonder how the OP is getting along?  (This thread is over 12 months old for those who didn't notice.)


He/She never made it past 6 posts in the forums.  I'm pretty sure the quote below is where the OP checked-out.  (Possibly from the forums entirely?)  Ha ha.  It can be like Thunderdome in here for the new folks.  I'm following intently as there's some seriously great advice going on in this thread!

Another assumption on your part; my consulting involves advising these companies on some of their most challenging internal problems, so - yes, I do get to see the bowels.

But, sure, okay. Dilbert: the end. Gotcha.

Peace.

AZDude

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2016, 01:03:49 PM »
Hello fellow Mustachians!
I've been reading the blog for a couple weeks now and started lurking the forums. This is my first post outside of my brief introduction, so forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere in great detail. I'm a recent graduate with a BA in economics. I just lucked my way into a job at a Fortune 100 insurance company as a business analyst making about 50k/yr. I've been working here for two months on a "high performing" team which is new to the company, acquiring startups to build infrastructure, and has potential to disrupt the industry.

Sounds great, right? I think so too.

But man does big-corporate suck. A culture of useless meetings and time-sucking activities, poor management, and inter-and-intra-divisional squabbles and politics.
I'm currently living with my parents and as long as I'm still at this job by the end of next May, I should have my ~$32,000 of student loans paid off and I can be ready to move out and start "truly" saving for early retirement.

Thing is, that's going to be 10 years or so of big-corporate away at best.
What are some of your best strategies for dealing with the parts of your job that you don't enjoy?

There are advantages to working for big corporate. I posted this before, but the biggie for me *was* the uselessness of the job. It made it entirely non-stressful. I knew my job did not matter to anyone, at all. So it was easy to just look at it as being paid to provide a service, and nothing more.

Plus, compared to smaller companies, mega-corp usually has very good benefits, good transfer opportunities(in case you want a different career path or location), etc... If you have to waste away ten years working for someone else, mega-corp is probably the way to go.

As to how to deal with the daily grind, there are 1000000 threads on the subject. The basic tenets from them are:

1) You are lucky to live in the US making a good salary, so try to be positive.
2) Work to live, not live to work. This means do not work extra hours, through your lunch, etc... Just do your 8 hours and go home.
3) Find meaning outside your job to make the ten years bearable. Hobbies, etc...
4) Use the grind to motivate you to save.
5) Do what you can to make the grind easier: make friends in the office, ask for flexibility(hours, telecommuting), use whatever perks are available(gym, etc).

Good luck. Many of us deal with this issue. There are lots of different ways of coping.

Bettis

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2016, 01:50:56 PM »
Thank you for re-bumping this.  I've had a real shitty past few days but just reading some of this has helped a lot.  It actually lightened my mood enough to try to troubleshoot a database issue we've had for a few months (I got thrown a DB that is very complex and I wasn't trained too well on before layoffs occurred).  I think I might actually have it fixed but can't run anything until tomorrow.  If it works, I'm gonna look like a superstar.  At least I'm gonna be in a good mood for my dear wife when I leave work today and hopefully my wonderful son will get to sleep just a little bit earlier tonight :)

jrhampt

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2016, 10:51:26 AM »
Become very good at your job, and then if you work in an industry where it is possible, start negotiating x # of work from home days per week.  If you can, get a 100% remote position.  This helps you avoid a lot of the politics and squabbling, but you should probably try to max out on salary before you entirely leave the office behind.

mozar

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Re: Dealing with Big Corporate
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2016, 06:47:31 PM »
Quote
As others say, visibility is key and takes little effort.

I have been doing this at my new job and its really helpful. Just realized that I must have gotten it from this thread.