Author Topic: dealing with a spouse who is literally killing self with unhealthy lifestyle  (Read 31482 times)

Tuskalusa

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I think you are getting some good advice here. People will change only if they want to change. You canít force it, no matter how hard you try. Your best option is probably to keep on with your routine and donít worry about what your spouse is doing. Stop the judgments, offer to include her in your plans/meals. But if she declines to participate, simply let it be.

This feels very similar to a scenario with an alcoholic spouse (which Iím familiar with).  As hard as the non-drinking spouse tries to control the drinking spouseís behavior, it just doesnít work. The non-drinking spouse has to learn to set boundaries and step back. Iíve found this incredibly difficult, but really necessary for my sanity and marriage.

I agree with the others that your priority needs to be to take care of yourself. Set boundaries, and try to stop controlling the things you canít. (Easier said than done, but taking little steps will help you reclaim your sanity.) Itís ok to prioritize yourself and your kids. Take some time and enjoy yourself without the burden of trying to control your wifeís health. See where things are in a month or two after you step back.

partgypsy

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I'm not going to get into everything brought up. OP, I have addictive and/or depressed people in my family. I also work in the psychology field. I know you think that you are showing you are caring by pointing out her flaws, threats and ultimatums telling her you are going to get a divorce so you don't have to see her kill herself, etc. You are doing things that that are making her feel scared, unloved and probably coping with that stress in that same way.
I'm glad whatever you did helped her get the medical attention she needs. BUT- as she recovers from surgery PLEASE delegate to someone else the motivation and structure or program for her for physical fitness, take on a healthier diet. Your interactions with her about this has made it too personal, emotional, and adversarial.
See if there are are any programs or classes she can take that are free or covered by insurance. If she has a girlfriend, see if they are willing to go on walks together. Plan fun physical activities with the kids, that she can choose or choose not to join in with. Make some meals that are healthy but taste good. Be a good example. Give unconditional support. It may or may not work. But what you are doing is certainly not going to work. I've been there.
I appreciate you posting, but you have completely misread into my relationship with my wife. It is 100% supportive and loving.  You don't think over the 15 years of knowing and loving my wife, I have tried everything under the sun, including what you have described, to try to help my wife?

It's amazing how some people come along to a situation, assume they know all of the answers and start preaching.  Believe me, I have done everything you have described, and more.

My wife's friends are equally unhealthy as her, and they are all suffering various health ailments of their own.  One recently just got released from the hospital for lifestyle choices as well, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a relapse soon.

If life was as easy as you describe, my wife wouldn't be in this situation.

I've met with therapists / counselors, independently to help me deal with the situation, and as a couple with my wife, and independently for my wife.   Our insurance sends us piles of medical claims for the many many sessions we've had.  I have bundles of the claims for evidence.

I'm starting to become a bit leery of therapists / counselors / psychologists as none seem to have the answer to help people like my wife.  It sounds great - go see a counselor / therapist, I'd love to see the success fate of these professionals.  I bet the vast majority of their clients don't have major improvements.

It takes self awareness and actualization to want to change.  I've enrolled my wife and I in a life coaching program to see if that will help us.  I desperately want my wife to stop her self-destructive behavior and focus on what's really important in life - her health and our family.

I never said it was easy, or that it was bound to work. Just that you being the one pushing her, is not going to work. I think you are under a misapprehension, that therapy or counseling can MAKE someone change. That's not correct. They can only support what the person wants to do. Oftentimes motivational interviewing is used at the start before doing any kind of intervention. That's used to probe whether the person is willing and ready and committed to making a change. Unless the person themselves is willing and committed, then implementing anything is not going to work.  So I don't know what stage your wife is in all this, but she is the only one who can make that decision. It must be incredibly frustrating, but you can't do this for her.  I'm glad you are there for her.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 06:33:49 AM by partgypsy »

Kyle Schuant

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Quote
I appreciate you posting, but you have completely misread into my relationship with my wife. It is 100% supportive and loving. 
Show her this thread and see if she feels supported and loved as a result.

jax8

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I appreciate you posting, but you have completely misread into my relationship with my wife. It is 100% supportive and loving. 
Show her this thread and see if she feels supported and loved as a result.

BOOM

NoraLenderbee

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Secondly, the guy who invented jogging died at 52. While jogging.
James Fixx didn't invent jogging, Fixx popularized running as a sport for personal fitness.

And he had a strong family history of heart attacks, and had heart disease himself from before he started running. He also smoked (he quit after he started running) and was overweight (ditto). Early cardiac death was in the cards for him, no matter how much he exercised and changed his lifestyle. That doesn't mean exercise isn't useful.

Optimiser

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Secondly, the guy who invented jogging died at 52. While jogging.
James Fixx didn't invent jogging, Fixx popularized running as a sport for personal fitness.

And he had a strong family history of heart attacks, and had heart disease himself from before he started running. He also smoked (he quit after he started running) and was overweight (ditto). Early cardiac death was in the cards for him, no matter how much he exercised and changed his lifestyle. That doesn't mean exercise isn't useful.

Exercise is definitely useful. I am less convinced that solid-state cardio is all that it's cracked up to be.

Pigeon

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Of course exercise is useful.  It improves your odds and has many benefits.  But it doesn't guarantee that you won't suffer some horrible disease and be a terrible burden on your family.  I would guess we all have known people who ate well, were fit and exercised regularly but who died young.  I can think of half a dozen off the top of my head.

Using the notion that because somebody might get sick and be a financial burden on the family as a reason to divorce, probably means all of us who are married should call a lawyer immediately.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Secondly, the guy who invented jogging died at 52. While jogging.
James Fixx didn't invent jogging, Fixx popularized running as a sport for personal fitness.

And he had a strong family history of heart attacks, and had heart disease himself from before he started running. He also smoked (he quit after he started running) and was overweight (ditto). Early cardiac death was in the cards for him, no matter how much he exercised and changed his lifestyle. That doesn't mean exercise isn't useful.

Health advice is so much nonsense. 10 years ago, eggs were terrible, fat was terrible, dairy was terrible. 100 years ago, smoking was a cure for asthma. These days carbs are the devil. Just recently, I see that a standard drink a day is now way more terrible than we thought. Ignore the lot of them and do everything in moderation. And you're still going to get fat smokers that live to 100 and super fit vegans who die at 30. NO ONE KNOWS. Not everyone realises that science is, in fact, a social discourse. It is not objective. It is not fact. It is not ever 'done'. Next year they might decide that sugar is a health food. And I'll ignore that also.

DutchGirl

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Health advice is so much nonsense. 10 years ago, eggs were terrible, fat was terrible, dairy was terrible. 100 years ago, smoking was a cure for asthma. These days carbs are the devil.

So, there is this thing called "new insights". This is actually what science is all about. You wonder how something works, you research it, and then you find out how it works.

It seemed like smoking was good for asthma (probably because many adults start smoking and outgrow their childhood asthma in the same time period). Then they researched this, I believe in the 1950s or so. Turns out that smokers die younger and have more health problems. The big ones being, I believe, cancer, atherosclerosis and COPD.

Trust me, we won't suddenly have new research showing that smoking is good for you.

Same thing is true with other food research. Sure, some of it is bollocks. Some of the food research is fraud. But in the long run, you will see a progress towards our understanding of what food really does to a human body and over a long period of time.

I'm, by the way, not sure that science ever "proved" that "carbs are the devil". I believe that most food science still says that you should eat all kinds of food groups, but in moderation. No carbs is more a lay "hype" than it is science.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 12:14:27 AM by DutchGirl »

use2betrix

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Secondly, the guy who invented jogging died at 52. While jogging.
James Fixx didn't invent jogging, Fixx popularized running as a sport for personal fitness.

And he had a strong family history of heart attacks, and had heart disease himself from before he started running. He also smoked (he quit after he started running) and was overweight (ditto). Early cardiac death was in the cards for him, no matter how much he exercised and changed his lifestyle. That doesn't mean exercise isn't useful.

Exercise is definitely useful. I am less convinced that solid-state cardio is all that it's cracked up to be.

Is it best? Probably not. Still better than doing nothing at all. Very few people are going to do the 100% most optimizing diet and exercise regimen. However - finding one that they can enjoy and stick with for the rest of their life is often better than doing something they hate and canít keep up with, and resort to doing nothing at all.

RetiredAt63

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You never know.  I think of 2 colleagues, one fit and healthy and one an overweight smoker.  the fit one died young, the high risk one outlived him by many years.  Mortality figures are composites, not predictors for an individual.

Also, getting back to OP's wife, at some point carbs are as addictive as cigarettes and alcohol.  Basically if the pancreas and body cells are having issues with insulin, the blood sugar is on a roller-coaster and when it crashes, the person craves more carbs to get their blood sugar back to normal.  And for someone like this, the transition to a low carb normal protein  high fat diet is extremely hard, and the only way to make their pancreas happy.  They have Syndrome X.  A nice read for her would be How I gave up my low-fat diet and lost 40 pounds by Dana Carpender.

PoutineLover

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There are three macro nutrients that all bodies need as fuel. Carbs, fat and protein. You can eat them in different proportions if you like, but it's absolute bullshit to say that carbs are addictive/cause cancer/will kill you. Yes, everyone who eats carbs will die, just like everyone who drinks water will die. Because everyone dies.
This doesn't mean that you can't improve your diet if it's not varied enough and doesn't include enough micro nutrients. But I'm so sick of people spewing nonsense when it comes to exercise and nutrition. It's not an exact science, what works for you may not work for someone else, moderation in anything is generally healthy and extremes should be avoided. There is no perfect way to eat, it would be impossible to determine what that would even be. Closest would be Michael Pollan: Eat food, not too much, mostly plants. Can't go wrong with that. (And btw, veggies contain carbs)

Schaefer Light

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Using the notion that because somebody might get sick and be a financial burden on the family as a reason to divorce, probably means all of us who are married should call a lawyer immediately.

I think it's a bit different when the sickness is self-inflicted.

MrMoneySaver

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OP, so here's what I'm getting from you:

1. You're a smug know it all
2. who is emotionally and likely verbally abusing his spouse.

Your wife's problem is YOU.

+1.  My goodness

+2


alanB

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There is confusion both among lay-folk and scientists alike about the difference between statistical significance and importance.  A study could demonstrate that eggs have a statistically significant negative impact on some indicator of health, and the media would relay it as "eggs are bad."  Meanwhile consumption of eggs is like the 5,000,000th most important determinant of morbidity.  Then the discussion devolves into "my grand-daddy ate 2 dozen eggs every morning and lived to a hundred."  OK... so what?  Some things are only a tiny bit bad, it is not like someone is going to discover the diet of the 5 magic best foods that make you live forever.  If you do not smoke and you maintain a low body fat you will probably live longer, everything else is YMMV, take it with a grain of salt (unless you are hypertensive).

Not everyone realises that science is, in fact, a social discourse. It is not objective. It is not fact. It is not ever 'done'.

On a philosophical level I agree with you.  On a practical level, come on, it's the best we've got! Sure, there will be better ways to make fire in the future, doesn't mean we have to be content with banging two rocks together until the field is 'done'

However, this also fails to account for the fact that some scientific disciplines are extremely objective. Take chemistry as an example, I can write you a protocol that says "If you mix 1 mol of A with 1 mol of B you will get 2 mols of C." and you can go off and do exactly that. That protocol could care less about your cultural background or the like.

In my experience, published chemistry is something like 50% objectively true, 35% mostly true, 10% misinterpreted, and 5% completely fabricated.  That is still better than many other disciplines.  I imagine maybe something like anatomy must rely heavily on objective fact.  You will not win too many arguments with "that I have both a right and left leg is a matter of opinion and perspective." 

Also, getting back to OP's wife, at some point carbs are as addictive as cigarettes and alcohol.  Basically if the pancreas and body cells are having issues with insulin, the blood sugar is on a roller-coaster and when it crashes, the person craves more carbs to get their blood sugar back to normal. 

I always wonder if people who claim to need a lot of carbs have ever tried substituting high carb veggies like beets or sweet potatoes.  I think the object of the addictiveness is not carbs in general, maybe a combination of salt and oil and simple sugars.  Easy test would be to eat a whole baked potato and see how it makes you feel.  Then try eating a pack of dried seaweed.  Which one is more addictive?

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Trust me, we won't suddenly have new research showing that smoking is good for you.



But we do - medicinal marijuana.

I'm willing to accept that there's a core science knowledge that's being continually extended, of course that's true. But humans are stupid and short term by nature. And the shit that we adopt as the latest and greatest is also stupid and short term.

former player

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Trust me, we won't suddenly have new research showing that smoking is good for you.



But we do - medicinal marijuana.

I'm willing to accept that there's a core science knowledge that's being continually extended, of course that's true. But humans are stupid and short term by nature. And the shit that we adopt as the latest and greatest is also stupid and short term.
NHS advice is that smoking cannabis increases the risk of bronchitis, cardiovascular disease and stroke, and damages a foetus.  Cannabis not smoked has both medical benefits and disbenefits.  There's nothing to suggest that cannabis has to be smoked in order to get the benefits.

RetiredAt63

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There are three macro nutrients that all bodies need as fuel. Carbs, fat and protein. You can eat them in different proportions if you like, but it's absolute bullshit to say that carbs are addictive/cause cancer/will kill you. Yes, everyone who eats carbs will die, just like everyone who drinks water will die. Because everyone dies.
This doesn't mean that you can't improve your diet if it's not varied enough and doesn't include enough micro nutrients. But I'm so sick of people spewing nonsense when it comes to exercise and nutrition. It's not an exact science, what works for you may not work for someone else, moderation in anything is generally healthy and extremes should be avoided. There is no perfect way to eat, it would be impossible to determine what that would even be. Closest would be Michael Pollan: Eat food, not too much, mostly plants. Can't go wrong with that. (And btw, veggies contain carbs)

I did say low carb, not no carb.  Which means lots of vegetables because they contain a lot more nutrition than just calories.  When I say high fat I am talking about things like essential fatty acids.  Fats don't trigger insulin or glucagon, they are neutral, which is helpful if some has impaired insulin metabolism.

I don't know if OP's wife has been checked for Type 2 diabetes, but given his description she should be.  What I was referring to is that if someone eats a lot of carbs in a meal that means the pancreas has to kick out more insulin, and that shoves the blood glucose into the cells.  And then of course the blood glucose drops and the body wants more carbs to get it up again.  A meal with a moderate amount of carbs won't start this cycle.  A meal with a lot of vegetables as the carbs won't start this cycle, because most vegetables (except the starchy ones) don't have that many carbs, and they have lots of fibre so they are filling. What is appropriate depends on the person - if their pancreas and insulin and glucagon are normal, then they can eat more carbs.  If they have already damaged their pancreas, and their cells are insulin-resistant, then they can't cope with the same level of carbs.

OP's wife is obviously not eating "normally" which is why I mentioned this possibility.

And re the cancer comment, no of course carbs can't cause cancer.  But tumours tend to need a lot of glucose, their metabolism is impaired, so someone with high blood glucose is feeding their tumour.  Someone with normal blood glucose is not feeding their tumour.

GuitarStv

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I always wonder if people who claim to need a lot of carbs have ever tried substituting high carb veggies like beets or sweet potatoes.  I think the object of the addictiveness is not carbs in general, maybe a combination of salt and oil and simple sugars.  Easy test would be to eat a whole baked potato and see how it makes you feel.  Then try eating a pack of dried seaweed.  Which one is more addictive?

Dried seaweed.  That shit is awesome, and I could eat it all day.  Baked potatoes suck until you load 'em up with butter, salt/pepper, and sour cream with chives.

PoutineLover

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@RetiredAt63
"at some point carbs are as addictive as cigarettes and alcohol"
This specifically was what I disagreed with most, but I also didn't quote it because it's not just you who make the "carbs are bad" argument, both in this thread and in common diet discourse. I get annoyed by people who demonize entire food groups for no good reason, but thank you for the more detailed explanation.
We seem to be immersed in a sort of "diet culture" where the latest studies are spun into hyperbolic headlines and everyone has a naturopath selling them "cleanses", so people tend to get confused over what eating healthy actually means, and the whole topic of healthy eating becomes much more fraught and complicated than it needs to be. I am in favour of people with specific health issues getting tested to figure out what's going wrong, and maybe OPs wife is diabetic or prediabetic and should cut down on sugar, but it's unnecessary for most people to go on a low carb diet and carbs in general are not evil.

MrMoneySaver

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I suspect that what the OP's wife is hearing, at some level, is, "You're fat, you're ugly, I'm better than you, I hate you."

marty998

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Trust me, we won't suddenly have new research showing that smoking is good for you.

But we do - medicinal marijuana.

I'm willing to accept that there's a core science knowledge that's being continually extended, of course that's true. But humans are stupid and short term by nature. And the shit that we adopt as the latest and greatest is also stupid and short term.
NHS advice is that smoking cannabis increases the risk of bronchitis, cardiovascular disease and stroke, and damages a foetus.  Cannabis not smoked has both medical benefits and disbenefits.  There's nothing to suggest that cannabis has to be smoked in order to get the benefits.

This debate has just started up again in Australia with the Greens Party releasing a policy of de-criminalising cannabis use.

Sure I can accept that medicinal marijuana has a place, and is currently used (on the quiet) for pain relief. However the chief medical scientist here has said they cannot support it due to other inherent risks such as the increased likelihood of developing psychosis and other mental illnesses.

Jtrey17

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There are two things here:

1. Your wife enjoys junk food and doesn't like exercising.

2. You're behaving in an unbelievably controlling and borderline abusive manner.

There's close to zero equivalence between these. If this is how you come across when describing and justifying your own behaviour, I can't even imagine how unpleasant the reality is. You called your wife's employer to complain that you'd prefer for her to quit and be more in line with what you expect of a spouse? This is, unless there's a truly colossal mitigating factor that you've totally failed to mention, WAY THE FUCK OUT OF LINE.

This is not a problem with your wife. This is a problem with you. If your wife wants to eat junk food and watch Netflix, that's her prerogative. If you can't stomach that, split up. I wasn't exaggerating earlier when I described your behaviour as borderline abusive: your description of your own actions is setting off alarm bells in my brain.

Unless your wife is 600lbs and has a life expectancy of fifty, what you're doing is almost certainly completely unacceptable. What you're describing is not normal behaviour: read some descriptions of controlling behaviour and ask yourself how an independent viewer would assess you against them. Back way the fuck up, and go take a long hard look in the mirror. The problem in your relationship is not that your wife likes junk food and TV; the problem is that you appear to be engaging in emotional abuse.
+1 and we can remove the word Ďborderlineí

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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The point being that the OP is taking a certain stance as absolute fact, with a pre determined outcome. It's anything but. The OP is sadly misinformed. Statistically, the OP is likely to die before his wife, fact, at least from one perspective.

Slow2FIRE

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I've seen some good advice interspersed throughout this thread.

If you really want to help her make a change you can't have her only do the things you want to do (drastic change in diet, going to the gym, etc).  You are going to have to find ways to make healthier food more interesting to her and engage in activities she can enjoy.  My wife isn't a fan of hitting the gym and lifting weights, but she loves to ride a bicycle or even playing "Pokemon Go" gets us moving around and doing something that gets you focused on "goals" that are accomplished by walking around.

...and yeah, the happiness thing is a big factor for both of you.


As an aside - can you guys cut it out with the bullshit anecdotes of people living to 105 while smoking 3 packs of pall malls a day and eating a 1/2 lb of bacon every meal while guzzling a gallon of beer.  These type of anecdotes are just a lame attempt to rail against "healthier" lifestyles, but are really just evidence of individuals with remarkable systems able to compensate for quite a bit of environmental damage and definitely not an indentifier of how we should all be living longer healthier lives.  You might as well tell us about someone winning the lottery and we have no need to save for retirement, because "hey, the lottery!!!"

Slow2FIRE

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The point being that the OP is taking a certain stance as absolute fact, with a pre determined outcome. It's anything but. The OP is sadly misinformed. Statistically, the OP is likely to die before his wife, fact, at least from one perspective.

I don't think you have the necessary "stats" to back that claim up.  You'd need a much greater level of detail on the OPs health and family history and at this point, from the limited evidence that has been presented (OP's wife's family history) it doesn't seem like your assertion will hold.

nessness

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The fact that you brought up how much money you spent on gym memberships and exercise equipment as evidence of how you love your wife is troubling. I doubt that those "gifts" made your wife feel loved; they probably made her feel ashamed that she yet again wasn't living up to your expectations.

Hopefully this health scare will be a turning point for her. But whether or not it is - BACK OFF! Apologize for calling her supervisor. Treat her like an adult who can make her own decisions. If she expresses a desire to get healthier, support her, but let her take the lead on what changes she does or doesn't want to make.

Kyle Schuant

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As an aside - can you guys cut it out with the bullshit anecdotes of people living to 105 while smoking 3 packs of pall malls a day and eating a 1/2 lb of bacon every meal while guzzling a gallon of beer.  These type of anecdotes are just a lame attempt to rail against "healthier" lifestyles, but are really just evidence of individuals with remarkable systems able to compensate for quite a bit of environmental damage and definitely not an indentifier of how we should all be living longer healthier lives.  You might as well tell us about someone winning the lottery and we have no need to save for retirement, because "hey, the lottery!!!"
The doctors' saying is, "your genetics loads the gun, your behaviour pulls the trigger."

None of which has anything to do with the fact that this thread is not a good example of how to speak publicly about your spouse if you wish to improve your marriage. It could be important issues, it could be trivialities. It could be health, finances, what school the kids should go to, whether one spouse is having too intimate conversations with someone else, who should do the dishes tonight - it doesn't matter. Once you speak of your spouse with public contempt, things aren't going in a good direction. And that's why I suggested the guy log off and make an effort to show love, respect, caring and desire for his wife.


This does not mean that people should never have difficult conversations with their spouse, quite the contrary. It does mean they should never show contempt for them, neither privately nor publicly. Again: what does the OP think his wife would feel if she read his posts in this thread?

ysette9

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You being up an important point. I am sure I could do a better job about this, but I try to speak of my spouse in a way that I would be fine with him overhearing if he were there. That isn’t always possible, but it is a good goal.

The other week my husband butt-dialed me several times while on a walk with a neighbor. At one point I listened in out of curiosity for a little bit as he talked about what was going on in our lives and shared some things I had said. As I expected, everything he said was utterly respectful of me. It reinforced how lucky I feel to have him as my husband. I also called him up to let him know just his butt was dialing me so he could stop it. :)

2microsNH

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OP, your wife is not going to change, period. As others have posted, at this point your choice is either to accept her as she is (and continue dealing with the consequences), or leave. Being locked in this endless struggle to get her to take care of herself sounds fruitless and exhausting, and can't be healthy for you, your wife, or your children.

I think it's perfectly legitimate to end a relationship -- even a marriage -- if you lose respect for your partner because they're abusing their body.

Rightflyer

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I always wonder if people who claim to need a lot of carbs have ever tried substituting high carb veggies like beets or sweet potatoes.  I think the object of the addictiveness is not carbs in general, maybe a combination of salt and oil and simple sugars.  Easy test would be to eat a whole baked potato and see how it makes you feel.  Then try eating a pack of dried seaweed.  Which one is more addictive?

Dried seaweed.  That shit is awesome, and I could eat it all day.  Baked potatoes suck until you load 'em up with butter, salt/pepper, and sour cream with chives.

I am so excited... this is the first time I am going to be able to disagree with GuitarStv and win (who BTW is the best debater on this forum.)

Try homegrown, heirloom potatoes.
No need for any toppings, additives or enhancers.
Pure bliss.




Kyle Schuant

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Potatoes are so good, they're an honorary meat.


The OP has probably removed potatoes from his diet as they would dilute his purity of essence.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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The point being that the OP is taking a certain stance as absolute fact, with a pre determined outcome. It's anything but. The OP is sadly misinformed. Statistically, the OP is likely to die before his wife, fact, at least from one perspective.

I don't think you have the necessary "stats" to back that claim up.  You'd need a much greater level of detail on the OPs health and family history and at this point, from the limited evidence that has been presented (OP's wife's family history) it doesn't seem like your assertion will hold.

Statistically, men have a shorter life span than women. Fact. It's one perspective. Like the OP's, and just as erroneous when you try to apply these things to one individual.

former player

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The point being that the OP is taking a certain stance as absolute fact, with a pre determined outcome. It's anything but. The OP is sadly misinformed. Statistically, the OP is likely to die before his wife, fact, at least from one perspective.

I don't think you have the necessary "stats" to back that claim up.  You'd need a much greater level of detail on the OPs health and family history and at this point, from the limited evidence that has been presented (OP's wife's family history) it doesn't seem like your assertion will hold.

Statistically, men have a shorter life span than women. Fact. It's one perspective. Like the OP's, and just as erroneous when you try to apply these things to one individual.
Anecdotally, obesity is a more serious problem in men than women: fat men die earlier than fat women.  Check out any retirement home, residential home or nursing home for the (yes, I know, anecdotal) evidence: there will always be fat women who are older than the fat men.

big_slacker

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I agree with Jax8- I donít do a low carb but I do a vegan diet. To hear vegans talk you would think it would be life shattering, dropping weight, boundless energy, etc. haha nope. Iím a chubby vegan and I feel pretty much the same as I always have. I stick with it for the animals and the good feelings about lowering my carbon footprint. But really...even adding tons of veggies and fruits to my diet hasnít made me go ďwow! I feel great!Ē

French fries and skittles are vegan fare, haha! If you're a chubby vegan it's for the same reason you were chubby before going vegan. You're eating enough calories to maintain those fat stores. The reason why many people lose weight when they switch over to a vegan diet is because they go from very calorie dense, nutrient poor foods to nutrient rich, low calorie foods. A hot pocket is like 700+ cals. A cup up brown rice, 1/2 cup of beans and a big portion of broc in a bowl is like 500+. Both will fill you up but one has less cals and more nutrients.

Continue this trend through the day and you are probably switching from 2800-3000 cals a day to 2200-2400, you will drop weight and you will have more energy.

To agree with your point, there is no magic bullet but there are right and wrong ways to do things if your goal is to lose weight and be healthy vs just making an ethical diet choice. If you're interested in the former jump on FB and search for Evolving Alpha, Fraser and Laura can help you. No that isn't me nor do I get any referral bonus. ;)

Rightflyer

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I always wonder if people who claim to need a lot of carbs have ever tried substituting high carb veggies like beets or sweet potatoes.  I think the object of the addictiveness is not carbs in general, maybe a combination of salt and oil and simple sugars.  Easy test would be to eat a whole baked potato and see how it makes you feel.  Then try eating a pack of dried seaweed.  Which one is more addictive?

Dried seaweed.  That shit is awesome, and I could eat it all day.  Baked potatoes suck until you load 'em up with butter, salt/pepper, and sour cream with chives.

I am so excited... this is the first time I am going to be able to disagree with GuitarStv and win (who BTW is the best debater on this forum.)

Try homegrown, heirloom potatoes.
No need for any toppings, additives or enhancers.
Pure bliss.

Níah. Iím with GuitarStv on this.
Baked potatoes just suck, and I like almost everything.
I lack the baked potato appreciating gene. They taste to me like damp sawdust in a singed paper bag.

At the risk of being accused of hijacking this thread...

Try baking them on a BBQ with no foil, just oil, salt and pepper. The skin crisps up and the inside is really meaty.


big_slacker

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I always wonder if people who claim to need a lot of carbs have ever tried substituting high carb veggies like beets or sweet potatoes.  I think the object of the addictiveness is not carbs in general, maybe a combination of salt and oil and simple sugars.  Easy test would be to eat a whole baked potato and see how it makes you feel.  Then try eating a pack of dried seaweed.  Which one is more addictive?

Dried seaweed.  That shit is awesome, and I could eat it all day.  Baked potatoes suck until you load 'em up with butter, salt/pepper, and sour cream with chives.

I am so excited... this is the first time I am going to be able to disagree with GuitarStv and win (who BTW is the best debater on this forum.)

Try homegrown, heirloom potatoes.
No need for any toppings, additives or enhancers.
Pure bliss.

Níah. Iím with GuitarStv on this.
Baked potatoes just suck, and I like almost everything.
I lack the baked potato appreciating gene. They taste to me like damp sawdust in a singed paper bag.

At the risk of being accused of hijacking this thread...

Try baking them on a BBQ with no foil, just oil, salt and pepper. The skin crisps up and the inside is really meaty.

I make them with season salt and a very small amount of oil in an air fryer. AWESOME.

Dabnasty

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I agree with Jax8- I donít do a low carb but I do a vegan diet. To hear vegans talk you would think it would be life shattering, dropping weight, boundless energy, etc. haha nope. Iím a chubby vegan and I feel pretty much the same as I always have. I stick with it for the animals and the good feelings about lowering my carbon footprint. But really...even adding tons of veggies and fruits to my diet hasnít made me go ďwow! I feel great!Ē

French fries and skittles are vegan fare, haha! If you're a chubby vegan it's for the same reason you were chubby before going vegan. You're eating enough calories to maintain those fat stores. The reason why many people lose weight when they switch over to a vegan diet is because they go from very calorie dense, nutrient poor foods to nutrient rich, low calorie foods. A hot pocket is like 700+ cals. A cup up brown rice, 1/2 cup of beans and a big portion of broc in a bowl is like 500+. Both will fill you up but one has less cals and more nutrients.

Continue this trend through the day and you are probably switching from 2800-3000 cals a day to 2200-2400, you will drop weight and you will have more energy.

To agree with your point, there is no magic bullet but there are right and wrong ways to do things if your goal is to lose weight and be healthy vs just making an ethical diet choice. If you're interested in the former jump on FB and search for Evolving Alpha, Fraser and Laura can help you. No that isn't me nor do I get any referral bonus. ;)

A meatball hot pocket is 310 calories

big_slacker

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I agree with Jax8- I don’t do a low carb but I do a vegan diet. To hear vegans talk you would think it would be life shattering, dropping weight, boundless energy, etc. haha nope. I’m a chubby vegan and I feel pretty much the same as I always have. I stick with it for the animals and the good feelings about lowering my carbon footprint. But really...even adding tons of veggies and fruits to my diet hasn’t made me go “wow! I feel great!”

French fries and skittles are vegan fare, haha! If you're a chubby vegan it's for the same reason you were chubby before going vegan. You're eating enough calories to maintain those fat stores. The reason why many people lose weight when they switch over to a vegan diet is because they go from very calorie dense, nutrient poor foods to nutrient rich, low calorie foods. A hot pocket is like 700+ cals. A cup up brown rice, 1/2 cup of beans and a big portion of broc in a bowl is like 500+. Both will fill you up but one has less cals and more nutrients.

Continue this trend through the day and you are probably switching from 2800-3000 cals a day to 2200-2400, you will drop weight and you will have more energy.

To agree with your point, there is no magic bullet but there are right and wrong ways to do things if your goal is to lose weight and be healthy vs just making an ethical diet choice. If you're interested in the former jump on FB and search for Evolving Alpha, Fraser and Laura can help you. No that isn't me nor do I get any referral bonus. ;)

A meatball hot pocket is 310 calories

A pepperoni pizza one is 700+ calories, and the first result you get when you google 'hot pocket nutritional value'. ;)

FWIW you could lose weight making that kind of swap. There is the infamous 'twinkie diet' that illustrates this point. Obviously it isn't optimal from a long term health perspective which is the point here.

GuitarStv

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If you want to lose weight while still feeling full, eat a large raw beet before every meal.  The sheer quantity of beet sitting in your stomach will make you feel full for the rest of the meal, so you won't be able to pack too much away.  Raw beet is super chewy, so it forces you to eat slowly which kills that drive to overeat that you get for the first 15 minutes of a meal.  The flavour of the raw beet is pretty intense, so you'll drink a lot of water to wash it down (again filling you up).  Also, beets are good for you.

This is one of the things I used to do to reduce the starving feeling when cutting weight for wrestling.

wenchsenior

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If you want to lose weight while still feeling full, eat a large raw beet before every meal.  The sheer quantity of beet sitting in your stomach will make you feel full for the rest of the meal, so you won't be able to pack too much away.  Raw beet is super chewy, so it forces you to eat slowly which kills that drive to overeat that you get for the first 15 minutes of a meal.  The flavour of the raw beet is pretty intense, so you'll drink a lot of water to wash it down (again filling you up).  Also, beets are good for you.

This is one of the things I used to do to reduce the starving feeling when cutting weight for wrestling.

Nothing like having constant purple pee!

charis

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If you want to lose weight while still feeling full, eat a large raw beet before every meal.  The sheer quantity of beet sitting in your stomach will make you feel full for the rest of the meal, so you won't be able to pack too much away.  Raw beet is super chewy, so it forces you to eat slowly which kills that drive to overeat that you get for the first 15 minutes of a meal.  The flavour of the raw beet is pretty intense, so you'll drink a lot of water to wash it down (again filling you up).  Also, beets are good for you.

This is one of the things I used to do to reduce the starving feeling when cutting weight for wrestling.

Any alternative for people who can't stand the taste of beets?

GuitarStv

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Nothing like having constant purple pee!

#PissingRainbows


If you want to lose weight while still feeling full, eat a large raw beet before every meal.  The sheer quantity of beet sitting in your stomach will make you feel full for the rest of the meal, so you won't be able to pack too much away.  Raw beet is super chewy, so it forces you to eat slowly which kills that drive to overeat that you get for the first 15 minutes of a meal.  The flavour of the raw beet is pretty intense, so you'll drink a lot of water to wash it down (again filling you up).  Also, beets are good for you.

This is one of the things I used to do to reduce the starving feeling when cutting weight for wrestling.

Any alternative for people who can't stand the taste of beets?

I hate the taste of beets.  That's a plus . . . it will reduce your appetite immediately before eating a meal.  The only concession I made to flavour was to peel the beets.  Technically the skin is edible and dirt free if you scrub it . . . but it REALLY tastes like ass.

OurTown

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How in the heck do you chew a raw beet?  I can barely slice the damn things!

GuitarStv

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How in the heck do you chew a raw beet?  I can barely slice the damn things!

It's kinda got the texture of a very firm carrot.

ysette9

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Nothing like eating something you hate at the beginning of each meal to help you lose weight. ;-)

I’m glad it isn’t just me; I can’t stand beets still and feel like I am the only one who hasn’t gotten over that childish whim

GuitarStv

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Nothing like eating something you hate at the beginning of each meal to help you lose weight. ;-)

Iím glad it isnít just me; I canít stand beets still and feel like I am the only one who hasnít gotten over that childish whim

Beets taste like you took some sugar and mixed it 50-50 with some fresh dirt from the garden.  :P  They do some pretty awesome stuff for your heart though, and I found them a very effective way to lose weight.

ysette9

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Maybe it is a holdover from my childhood, but to me, beets have an additional beet-ish flavor that is more than sugar and more than dirt, and is gag-inducing when strong.

charis

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Maybe it is a holdover from my childhood, but to me, beets have an additional beet-ish flavor that is more than sugar and more than dirt, and is gag-inducing when strong.
+1

Pigeon

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Nothing like eating something you hate at the beginning of each meal to help you lose weight. ;-)

Iím glad it isnít just me; I canít stand beets still and feel like I am the only one who hasnít gotten over that childish whim

I think I'd rather just eat the dirt.