Author Topic: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories  (Read 4996 times)

onecoolcat

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Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« on: August 14, 2021, 10:04:28 AM »
My dad lives alone and has progressively become more and more vocal about various conspiracy theories he believes in.  It is wearing on my own mental state because I care about him but I am hopeless to either convince him otherwise or  convince him to respect my wishes and just not talk about these things.  Conspiracies have consumed his life and all his interest seem to revolve around them.

Big surprise, it started with Trump and the 2020 election.  Initially he said the election was rigged in a few key states.  Now he is saying the election was stolen as part of a broader communist plot by China, American Commies and RHINOs to change votes in every state.  He always said he doesn't follow Q or know anything about it but I suspect he has gradually become a follower because now he is talking about how the COVID vaccines are killing people.  This caught me off-guard because I thought he was only sucked into the election conspiracy theories.  This is after all, coming from someone who got both of his COVID shots when it became available to him and wore a mask in public places.  However, now he is randomly telling me he won't ever get a booster shot or wear a mask again because the Delta Variant is all a lie to kill and control people.  He says the hospitals are full of only vaccinated people and those are the only people dying; the news is lying about the cause of death. 

I don't know how to deal with this.  The easiest thing would be to just not take his calls anymore.  He doesn't have a lot of people in his life, which may be why it was so easy for him to get sucked into this, and I am afraid if I just stop talking to him it could make things worse for him.  Anyone have any advise?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 10:09:18 AM by onecoolcat »

Zamboni

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2021, 10:14:11 AM »
Wow, I'm sorry. This sounds really tough. How old is your Dad?

The first thing I would try to do is find out what his source is for his information . . . don't do it in any kind of accusatory or questioning way, but find it out. Like: ask him what is his favorite TV shows? Is he on social media? If so, which sites? Is he getting a lot of emails? One thing that happened when I got some Trump event tickets just to troll him is I learned that his campaign literally emails EVERY SINGLE HOUR. It's a "different person" sending the email each time, but it's all from just that one sign up I did. And those emails are completely and totally crazy talk. If I read those all day, I'd probably end up just like your Dad. Maybe he has a friend group who is spouting these ideas every time he meets with them? Just find out.

Somehow you are going to have to remove those sources, whatever they are, from your Dad's life. You can't even begin to do that until you figure out where his stream of crazy ideas is coming from. Please hang in there for your Dad.

iris lily

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2021, 10:24:11 AM »
Wow, I'm sorry. This sounds really tough. How old is your Dad?

The first thing I would try to do is find out what his source is for his information . . . don't do it in any kind of accusatory or questioning way, but find it out. Like: ask him what is his favorite TV shows? Is he on social media? If so, which sites? Is he getting a lot of emails? One thing that happened when I got some Trump event tickets just to troll him is I learned that his campaign literally emails EVERY SINGLE HOUR. It's a "different person" sending the email each time, but it's all from just that one sign up I did. And those emails are completely and totally crazy talk. If I read those all day, I'd probably end up just like your Dad. Maybe he has a friend group who is spouting these ideas every time he meets with them? Just find out.

Somehow you are going to have to remove those sources, whatever they are, from your Dad's life. You can't even begin to do that until you figure out where his stream of crazy ideas is coming from. Please hang in there for your Dad.
No. The OP does not “have to remove those sources…from [his ] life.”

Adults get to chose their own reading material, read it, make their own decisions about what they read and listen to and watch.

Geez.

That doesn’t mean that the OP can’t make a few well timed, quiet comments to counter the crazy. But I wonder why the OP is so terribly focused on this one aspect of his father’s life. Does the dad get out an socialize with others? Go to coffee with friends? Church or senior groups or ? How is his health and overall activity level?

These are the things to focus on.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 12:48:00 PM by iris lily »

friedmmj

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2021, 10:38:14 AM »
Maybe your Dad is using this nonsense as a cry for your attention.  My Mom used to carry on in childish and ridiculous ways when she was feeling ignored or underappreciated.

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2021, 10:45:12 AM »
Can you change the subject?  I've learned to say something like " I'm really not interested in hearing more about x, can we talk about y instead? No, how about just about anything else then?"  If your dad gets hints you could just look away or start scrolling on your phone if he starts talking about it. My family does not get hints.

My husband got into individual stocks for a while and would bore me to death with details about earnings and what Cramer said. Next it was collecting antique canning jars.  🥱  Luckily no conspiracies. (I'm sure I've bored him a bit with early retirement stuff lol). Our oldest son is six and has autism and will tell us about Minecraft all day if we let him. It's not too much different, really.

NorthernIkigai

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2021, 10:48:47 AM »
I would kindly but firmly tell him you do not want to discuss the election or the pandemic with him. Then change the subject and try to show that you are still interested in talking with him and about stuff that’s interesting to him (hopefully there’s something left). Don’t get into why you don’t want to talk about certain subjects, especially not how they all seem interlinked to you, as that would probably fuel the kind of paranoia that I can imagine lies behind these kinds of obsessions.

Just put down some boundaries, both for the sake of your relationship and for your own wellbeing.

onecoolcat

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2021, 10:49:44 AM »
Can you change the subject?  I've learned to say something like " I'm really not interested in hearing more about x, can we talk about y instead? No, how about just about anything else then?"  If your dad gets hints you could just look away or start scrolling on your phone if he starts talking about it. My family does not get hints.

My husband got into individual stocks for a while and would bore me to death with details about earnings and what Cramer said. Next it was collecting antique canning jars.  🥱  Luckily no conspiracies. (I'm sure I've bored him a bit with early retirement stuff lol). Our oldest son is six and has autism and will tell us about Minecraft all day if we let him. It's not too much different, really.

Changing the subject does not work.  I have begged him to stop talking about this stuff but he won't stop until he gets so angry he hangs up the phone.  Over 75% of my conversations with him end this way.

NorthernIkigai

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2021, 10:54:31 AM »
Our oldest son is six and has autism and will tell us about Minecraft all day if we let him. It's not too much different, really.

I’m fairly sure our oldest is neurotypical, but he can pivot any subject into soccer. Including quoting statistics from tournaments that were played way before he was born. We’ve concluded that this is still healthier than a lot of other crap one might get obsessed by and that even kids find online nowadays.

Mr. Green

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2021, 11:00:16 AM »
I see you're in South Florida. Is he as well? If he is he can just walk into an emergency room in the area and it will be full of unvaccinated people needing hospitalization from COVID. Not that that's a great plan, but it's really hard to continue denying what you've seen with your own eyes. Of course he could refuse to believe that those people are unvaccinated. When I read this I couldn't help but think of QAnonCasualties over on Reddit. I'm sorry you are having to go through this. It must be extremely difficult.

American GenX

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2021, 11:40:03 AM »
Can you change the subject?  I've learned to say something like " I'm really not interested in hearing more about x, can we talk about y instead? No, how about just about anything else then?"  If your dad gets hints you could just look away or start scrolling on your phone if he starts talking about it. My family does not get hints.

My husband got into individual stocks for a while and would bore me to death with details about earnings and what Cramer said. Next it was collecting antique canning jars.  🥱  Luckily no conspiracies. (I'm sure I've bored him a bit with early retirement stuff lol). Our oldest son is six and has autism and will tell us about Minecraft all day if we let him. It's not too much different, really.

Changing the subject does not work.  I have begged him to stop talking about this stuff but he won't stop until he gets so angry he hangs up the phone.  Over 75% of my conversations with him end this way.

Are you arguing with him about this points, trying to change the subject, or giving him the silent treatment just before he hangs up?  It sounds like you need a change of strategy or maybe just cut back on talking to him.

NorthernIkigai

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2021, 11:44:59 AM »
Yeah, don’t beg, don’t reason, don’t argue. Just refuse to talk about or listen to this stuff. If need be, tell him calmly that you’ll call him back and try again another time. If he chooses to rant or hang up in anger or not take your calls, that’s on him.

And take comfort in the fact that he did have his jabs already, so you don’t need to worry as much about that part of all of this.

Spiffy

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2021, 11:53:48 AM »
I don't have any advice, just know you are not alone. My best friend has been taken in by conspiracy theories, too. She has been repeating every crazy story out there. When I ask where she got this information, she says "it's in the Word". Sweet Jesus, no. This crap is not in the bible. I don't understand because she was a wonderful life with family near by and happy children who are expecting the first grandchild in the family. She is busy and not at all isolated. It makes me so sad.

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2021, 12:04:42 PM »
I see you're in South Florida. Is he as well? If he is he can just walk into an emergency room in the area and it will be full of unvaccinated people needing hospitalization from COVID. Not that that's a great plan, but it's really hard to continue denying what you've seen with your own eyes. Of course he could refuse to believe that those people are unvaccinated. When I read this I couldn't help but think of QAnonCasualties over on Reddit. I'm sorry you are having to go through this. It must be extremely difficult.

I really wish that would work.

My mom is an x-ray tech in a small town that was hard hit with Covid. She has three coworkers who won't get vaccinated even after x-raying sick and dying patients all winter. One of them had Covid and was pretty sick and still won't get the shot. Neither will the other two. Another one thinks the capitol invasion wasn't real; mom won't talk to her any more.

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2021, 12:12:19 PM »
You might find this article, and the book referenced in it (Escaping the Rabbit Hole0, helpful.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-pseudoscience/zen-and-art-talking-conspiracy-theorists

I've also found that this book has been very helpful when speaking to people with whom I disagree (but who aren't at the bottom of the rabbit hole).

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/774088.Difficult_Conversations

With your dad, you should also consider whether his current behaviour is characteristic of him (albeit more extreme), or whether this is unusual. If it's the former, and you don't have a strong relationship with him, there might not be much you can do. If you had a better relationship with him in the past and he wasn't prone to extreme theories, then there is a greater chance of having better discussions with him now. Of course, if he has changed his thinking significantly and is showing other signs of irrational or unrealistic thinking, then there are also might be medical issues to consider.

iris lily

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2021, 12:47:10 PM »
Can you change the subject?  I've learned to say something like " I'm really not interested in hearing more about x, can we talk about y instead? No, how about just about anything else then?"  If your dad gets hints you could just look away or start scrolling on your phone if he starts talking about it. My family does not get hints.

My husband got into individual stocks for a while and would bore me to death with details about earnings and what Cramer said. Next it was collecting antique canning jars.  🥱  Luckily no conspiracies. (I'm sure I've bored him a bit with early retirement stuff lol). Our oldest son is six and has autism and will tell us about Minecraft all day if we let him. It's not too much different, really.

Changing the subject does not work.  I have begged him to stop talking about this stuff but he won't stop until he gets so angry he hangs up the phone.  Over 75% of my conversations with him end this way.

Oh I see your main relationship with him now is via telephone.

You know you can’t change him and I wonder why at this point in your life you haven’t figured that out. But OK I get it, plenty of adults well into adulthood do not understand “boundaries. “

When you draw a boundary about what you do not wish to talk about with your father, you draw a line in the sand. He will cross it because you cannot control his behavior. Did you understand what I just said?

You. Cannot. Control. His. Actions and behavior.

So when he crosses that line you’ve drawn in the sand and starts quacking on about crazy conspiracies, you say cheerfully “hey dad I told you I didn’t wanna talk about that so I’m going to hang up now.” And then you hang up.

The boundary you draw is around YOUR OWN behavior.

As an aside you are not the first or the second in recent months to come onto this website and talk about how you need to control what others are reading talking thinking about.that is just a tad concerning to me.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 12:49:38 PM by iris lily »

Bateaux

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2021, 12:56:02 PM »
Remember in school the kids saying, "How am I going to use this in the real world?"

They never did learn the facts then and are confused by them now.

Fishindude

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2021, 12:59:11 PM »
No. The OP does not “have to remove those sources…from [his ] life.”

Adults get to chose their own reading material, read it, make their own decisions about what they read and listen to and watch.

Geez.

That doesn’t mean that the OP can’t make a few well timed, quiet comments to counter the crazy. But I wonder why the OP is so terribly focused on this one aspect of his father’s life. Does the dad get out an socialize with others? Go to coffee with friends? Church or senior groups or ? How is his health and overall activity level?

These are the things to focus on.

Good response, I agree.
Leave the old guy alone and let him think what he wants.   You're lucky to have him around.

OtherJen

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2021, 01:08:21 PM »
Can you change the subject?  I've learned to say something like " I'm really not interested in hearing more about x, can we talk about y instead? No, how about just about anything else then?"  If your dad gets hints you could just look away or start scrolling on your phone if he starts talking about it. My family does not get hints.

My husband got into individual stocks for a while and would bore me to death with details about earnings and what Cramer said. Next it was collecting antique canning jars.  🥱  Luckily no conspiracies. (I'm sure I've bored him a bit with early retirement stuff lol). Our oldest son is six and has autism and will tell us about Minecraft all day if we let him. It's not too much different, really.

Changing the subject does not work.  I have begged him to stop talking about this stuff but he won't stop until he gets so angry he hangs up the phone.  Over 75% of my conversations with him end this way.

Oh I see your main relationship with him now is via telephone.

You know you can’t change him and I wonder why at this point in your life you haven’t figured that out. But OK I get it, plenty of adults well into adulthood do not understand “boundaries. “

When you draw a boundary about what you do not wish to talk about with your father, you draw a line in the sand. He will cross it because you cannot control his behavior. Did you understand what I just said?

You. Cannot. Control. His. Actions and behavior.

So when he crosses that line you’ve drawn in the sand and starts quacking on about crazy conspiracies, you say cheerfully “hey dad I told you I didn’t wanna talk about that so I’m going to hang up now.” And then you hang up.

The boundary you draw is around YOUR OWN behavior.

As an aside you are not the first or the second in recent months to come onto this website and talk about how you need to control what others are reading talking thinking about.that is just a tad concerning to me.

Agree that the OP needs to set their own boundaries. It works for my mom and her brother, who has completely bought onto Newsmax/Q conspiracies. She simply refuses to discuss politics with him and will end the call rather than argue if he doesn't let up. They get along much better now.

You set the boundaries based on what you are willing to tolerate. You can't control others' behavior, but you can control your reactions and responses.

Zamboni

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2021, 01:46:14 PM »
Wow, I'm sorry. This sounds really tough. How old is your Dad?

The first thing I would try to do is find out what his source is for his information . . . don't do it in any kind of accusatory or questioning way, but find it out. Like: ask him what is his favorite TV shows? Is he on social media? If so, which sites? Is he getting a lot of emails? One thing that happened when I got some Trump event tickets just to troll him is I learned that his campaign literally emails EVERY SINGLE HOUR. It's a "different person" sending the email each time, but it's all from just that one sign up I did. And those emails are completely and totally crazy talk. If I read those all day, I'd probably end up just like your Dad. Maybe he has a friend group who is spouting these ideas every time he meets with them? Just find out.

Somehow you are going to have to remove those sources, whatever they are, from your Dad's life. You can't even begin to do that until you figure out where his stream of crazy ideas is coming from. Please hang in there for your Dad.
No. The OP does not “have to remove those sources…from [his ] life.”

Adults get to chose their own reading material, read it, make their own decisions about what they read and listen to and watch.

Geez.

That doesn’t mean that the OP can’t make a few well timed, quiet comments to counter the crazy. But I wonder why the OP is so terribly focused on this one aspect of his father’s life. Does the dad get out an socialize with others? Go to coffee with friends? Church or senior groups or ? How is his health and overall activity level?

These are the things to focus on.

Normally I would completely agree with you, but based upon what OP wrote, in this case I think there is some dangerous brainwashing going on. So what is the source of the brainwashing? And would he Dad be way, way, way better off without that source in his life?

If it was just the politics I would ignore it, but there is extremely dangerous health-related misinformation happening at this point. I do think it's a family's duty to interfering with cultish brainwashing or things that can badly damage someone's health. If you love him, hang in there, and gently probe where you can to find out the sources of this stuff.

I'm editing to add that my Mom is starting to lose her marbles . . . it's very clear. It's bad enough that we felt we needed to inform the local sheriff's office in case she reports something crazy to them, but unfortunately they were already well acquainted with her due to her erratic behavior and odd reports to them. That's why I asked how old his Dad is. If Dad is really elderly, then that is another thing to consider. We finally got one friend to realize she wasn't in control of her faculties by showing her whom she had sent donation checks to during one of her more lucid cycles.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 01:53:13 PM by Zamboni »

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2021, 02:05:29 PM »
No. The OP does not “have to remove those sources…from [his ] life.”

Adults get to chose their own reading material, read it, make their own decisions about what they read and listen to and watch.

Geez.

Crazy people need sane people to intervene for them.

scantee

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2021, 02:25:43 PM »
I agree that you need to set firm boundaries with him. Next time he brings this up say “I don’t want to talk about these topics with you. If you bring them up I will hang up.” Then hang up when he does. No more warnings, just follow through. Do that over and over and over again. You’ll probably need to do it more times than you would like or expect. Either two things will happen: he’ll stop talking about it or you’ll fall out of contact with him. Usually it is the former and not the latter but maybe think through what you want to do in case it is the latter.

My mother was very controlling about my appearance when I was a kid and tried to continue to be well into my 20’s. I was very successful in using this approach to get her to stop commenting on my appearance. It  took maybe 3 or 4 times of firmly and calming saying “I am happy with how look. If you bring it up again l’m going to leave.” One time I left. She’s never done it again and it’s been decades now.

iris lily

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2021, 02:29:12 PM »
No. The OP does not “have to remove those sources…from [his ] life.”

Adults get to chose their own reading material, read it, make their own decisions about what they read and listen to and watch.

Geez.

Crazy people need sane people to intervene for them.
You don’t know how far down the “crazy” path the old dad has walked  and neither do I.

Fortunately, the old guy has protection of the law and the courts to keep other humans from swooping in to remove his autonomy. While he is stil autonomous he gets to make decisions about his health, his physical safety, his money, etc.

Most of us have faced these issues with our parents,I guarantee many  here will be involved in the same dance with their own children. The sense of righteousness displayed here and on similar threads makes me shake my head.


« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 02:33:05 PM by iris lily »

Psychstache

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2021, 02:31:55 PM »
No. The OP does not “have to remove those sources…from [his ] life.”

Adults get to chose their own reading material, read it, make their own decisions about what they read and listen to and watch.

Geez.

Crazy people need sane people to intervene for them.

Yeah if either of my parents are pulled into a cult, I would try to get them out. Seems to be the only loving thing to do.

Mr. Green

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2021, 03:17:52 PM »
I'm just going to caution against pushing hard against your father's positions. I've read extensively from the QAnonCasualties subreddit and it is filled with people whose loved ones are so far gone that trying to logic with them only has the opposite effect of making the conspiracist dig in. I've read countless people who have basically had to go no contact because their family members are so far gone there's literally nothing they can do. Hopefully your father isn't that bad yet but it's just an absolute tragedy what is happening to a lot of people right now. Many of them are choosing conspiracies over their own children or parents. It's just gutwrenching. Just, engage cautiously if your engage that behavior at all.

NorCal

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2021, 03:44:37 PM »
I'm just going to caution against pushing hard against your father's positions. I've read extensively from the QAnonCasualties subreddit and it is filled with people whose loved ones are so far gone that trying to logic with them only has the opposite effect of making the conspiracist dig in. I've read countless people who have basically had to go no contact because their family members are so far gone there's literally nothing they can do. Hopefully your father isn't that bad yet but it's just an absolute tragedy what is happening to a lot of people right now. Many of them are choosing conspiracies over their own children or parents. It's just gutwrenching. Just, engage cautiously if your engage that behavior at all.

Agree 100%.  It's a natural human tendency to seek validation from others and push away those who don't provide that validation.  You see this a lot on this forum when family/friends don't understand the idea of saving large parts of income.

I don't have a magic solution.  My only thought is to follow the old saying that "you're the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with".

If your dad could find a social outlet with some normal people he has something in common with, he might start engaging with more positive aspects of the world. 

I know my FIL started to get isolated after his long time partner passed away.  The best thing he's done since is to get a part time job (he only works 2-3 days a month) and join a model railroad club.  See if you can get him socially engaged with a group he's interested in.  Just don't try to force it upon him.

Poundwise

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2021, 03:45:56 PM »
It seems like the best way to help a person out of a cult (including the Q cult) is not to trap them in a corner, but to provide them with a refuge to run to when and if they get disillusioned with the cult.  Be supportive and loving, avoid the topic when possible. It may take years.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-mind/202104/the-definitive-guide-helping-people-trapped-in-cult
https://www.cultwatch.com/how-to-help-friends-family.html
https://theconversation.com/how-to-talk-someone-out-of-a-damaging-cult-68930

Zamboni

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2021, 04:09:33 PM »
Yes, he gets to make his own decisions. But that doesn't mean OP shouldn't try to figure out where these ideas are coming from. He's spouting internet conspiracy theory talking points, not original thoughts, and it seems to be consuming his life in a completely unhealthy way. If I ever go that way . . . oh dear, please someone stage an intervention!

My kids already told me they thought my twitter was toxic. Not "Mom your ideas are wrong" but "Mom, your twitter seems toxic. Mine's all about sports." So I ditched twitter. It was as simple as that.

I've already told my kids that I plan to check myself into a senior apartment hopefully well before I need it . . . and to please talk to me about giving up my car keys if I seem to be having trouble. I have promised them that I will not be difficult about it, and to please remind me that I promised not to be difficult. While I trust my kids, is it possible that one of them might have a spouse who tries to bilk me out of my millions, but I'm not going to worry about that until there are signs of it. Probably they will just marry nice people and do their best to take care of loopy little old Zamboni.

I cite Granny as an example because I do not want to become her. I also hope my kids WiLL protect me and my stash from predatory contractors, phone scams, religious and political cults, etc. when I start losing my critical reasoning skills.

onecoolcat

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2021, 04:26:55 PM »
Sincerely thanks to all for the advise.  To those asking about our relationship, we live about a 600 miles apart so we mostly just talk on the phone. 

To the folks accusing me of trying to "control" my dad, all I have to say is that this is really difficult (which is why I came here for advise), I love him, and I hate seeing him rapidly becoming less and less well.  I am looking at my toddlers right now and if, god forbid, I got sucked into a cult in my old age I hope they would look out for me.  Which is why I will heed everyone's advise.  Going forward I will mean it when I tell him ill hang up if he brings up politics, execution of traitors, or COVID misinformation.  If he miraculously shows signs he is having doubts I will be there as well.  I'll be honest, it seems like an impossibility, but I'll stick around however long it takes.

Thanks.

Rollin

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2021, 05:30:17 PM »
You might find this article, and the book referenced in it (Escaping the Rabbit Hole0, helpful.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-pseudoscience/zen-and-art-talking-conspiracy-theorists

I've also found that this book has been very helpful when speaking to people with whom I disagree (but who aren't at the bottom of the rabbit hole).

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/774088.Difficult_Conversations

With your dad, you should also consider whether his current behaviour is characteristic of him (albeit more extreme), or whether this is unusual. If it's the former, and you don't have a strong relationship with him, there might not be much you can do. If you had a better relationship with him in the past and he wasn't prone to extreme theories, then there is a greater chance of having better discussions with him now. Of course, if he has changed his thinking significantly and is showing other signs of irrational or unrealistic thinking, then there are also might be medical issues to consider.

Very good article - thank you for posting that.

Bee21

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2021, 07:35:34 PM »
I am in similar sort of situation and it is emotionally draining. I love my parents, but I feel like crying every time they call. It is super stressfull because they want to talk every day, and then they get into these super stupid, super right wing rants, detailed health complaints and criticising my weight, my parenting etc, etc.

It seriously contributed to my own depression and anxiety so I had to take a step back. Now i write to them every day, and I pick up the phone when I feel that i am able to manage the flow of conversation better. It is constantly on silent in the evenings when they call otherwise.

A few tips which worked for me :
limit the time (sorry, am cooking dinner, the kids are in the bath)
Ask about the source and ask them to tell why i like listening to that person (at least they don't carry on about the conspiracy, migrants, gays)
Be polite but stop the rant- we discussed this yesterday has anything changed?
be firm: unfortunately we won't agree on this, let's change the topic

an other thought: has he been assessed for dementia?  My mother is in the early stages it completely changed her personality and her way of thinking :😥

PDXTabs

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2021, 07:41:13 PM »
No. The OP does not “have to remove those sources…from [his ] life.”

Adults get to chose their own reading material, read it, make their own decisions about what they read and listen to and watch.

Geez.

Crazy people need sane people to intervene for them.

If they are a danger to themselves or others, sure. But it isn't your responsibility to intervene for your parents. I mean, you might want to, but it isn't a moral failing not to. IMHO. The OP is free to put as much or as little energy into this situation as they want.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2021, 07:45:19 PM »
No. The OP does not “have to remove those sources…from [his ] life.”

Adults get to chose their own reading material, read it, make their own decisions about what they read and listen to and watch.

Geez.

Crazy people need sane people to intervene for them.

If they are a danger to themselves or others, sure. But it isn't your responsibility to intervene for your parents. I mean, you might want to, but it isn't a moral failing not to. IMHO. The OP is free to put as much or as little energy into this situation as they want.

It's also not guaranteed that they actually could do anything or that what they do won't make things worse. The only thing they can do for sure is set boundaries for their own sanity. That, in and of itself, if there is enough of a relationship with their parent could help.

Zamboni

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2021, 09:18:49 PM »
One thing I've found helpful recently . . . not sure it will help others . . . is telling people who are riling me up with their politic wackiness:

"Yeah, I just think politics is boring. I know you are into it, and that's cool, but I just think it's boring. I prefer to discuss and think about other things."

That is the honest truth from me. And it actually does seem to work in getting the other person to switch gears sometimes. YMMV.

Cassie

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2021, 11:30:36 PM »
As a former social worker your dad is a adult who doesn’t need regulating of his news sources. Setting boundaries is appropriate for yourself.  People need independence for as long as possible versus being kept safe. Older people aren’t children.

stoaX

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2021, 04:54:12 AM »
You might find this article, and the book referenced in it (Escaping the Rabbit Hole0, helpful.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-pseudoscience/zen-and-art-talking-conspiracy-theorists

I've also found that this book has been very helpful when speaking to people with whom I disagree (but who aren't at the bottom of the rabbit hole).

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/774088.Difficult_Conversations

With your dad, you should also consider whether his current behaviour is characteristic of him (albeit more extreme), or whether this is unusual. If it's the former, and you don't have a strong relationship with him, there might not be much you can do. If you had a better relationship with him in the past and he wasn't prone to extreme theories, then there is a greater chance of having better discussions with him now. Of course, if he has changed his thinking significantly and is showing other signs of irrational or unrealistic thinking, then there are also might be medical issues to consider.

Very good article - thank you for posting that.

Agreed - thanks!

wageslave23

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2021, 06:28:12 AM »
He probably also thinks that eating bacon, donuts, and drinking beer are good ideas too.  Or watching TV and not exercising.  Just because he is on the other side of the political spectrum is not a reason to get all up in arms.  Change the subject, set boundaries, or stop talking to him as frequently if discussing politics bothers you.  If he's fully vaccinated, these other behaviors are far more of a health risk to him.  They just don't happen to be political flashpoints currently.

Metalcat

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2021, 06:46:51 AM »
He probably also thinks that eating bacon, donuts, and drinking beer are good ideas too.  Or watching TV and not exercising.  Just because he is on the other side of the political spectrum is not a reason to get all up in arms.  Change the subject, set boundaries, or stop talking to him as frequently if discussing politics bothers you.  If he's fully vaccinated, these other behaviors are far more of a health risk to him.  They just don't happen to be political flashpoints currently.

If my dad would only talk to me about how eating only bacon and donuts was the healthiest diet, refused to talk about anything else, and angrily hung up on me when I refused to agree with his "truth" about bacon and donuts, yeah, I would start seeking advice as to how to deal with him and his compulsive need to talk about bacon and donuts as the only way to be healthy.

I would also worry intensely about my father.

To me, the content of the father's fixations isn't so much the issue as his intense fixation and his hostile reactions.

I'm having a similar issue with my father right now, only the opposite subject matter. He's speaking obsessively about the impacts of covid and it's driving me crazy. He called me and woke me up on my birthday to say "Happy birthday my lovely daughter!" And then in the next breath sighed and said "the Delta variant is killing children".

None of the factual content my father has said has concerned me, but his compulsive fixation has me very concerned about his mental health, and how it is eroding our relationship, because we normally have long, intelligent talks, and now that's become incredibly difficult.

He has invited me on a road trip, which is something I have wanted to do with him for years, but I'm also dreading it because I don't want to listen to him talk about covid deaths for 6 hours in a car. I don't have many years left with him, his health is fading, and this could be my last chance at a road trip with him, and still, it's hard to want to go because of his current fixations.

As much as adults are entitled to make whatever autonomous decisions they want about their lives, those decisions aren't consequence free when it comes to the people they affect.

OP is both frustrated with and concerned by their father's behaviour, and I don't think for a second that that concern is at all unreasonable.

Poundwise

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2021, 07:02:52 AM »
Idea: why not start nagging your dad about some completely other topic, like his unhealthy eating or need to declutter or spending beyond his means. Just to change it up a little? Like, when he starts in on politics, you start in on how he needs to exercise. Until he's exasperated and you make a mutual agreement to lay off those two subjects and talk about something pleasant like an old hobby of his.

Metalcat

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2021, 07:17:13 AM »
Idea: why not start nagging your dad about some completely other topic, like his unhealthy eating or need to declutter or spending beyond his means. Just to change it up a little? Like, when he starts in on politics, you start in on how he needs to exercise. Until he's exasperated and you make a mutual agreement to lay off those two subjects and talk about something pleasant like an old hobby of his.

It depends on the source of the unreasonableness of his behaviour.

It could be that he's entirely mentally healthy and just consciously choosing to alienate his closest relationships because he considers his opinions to be more important than a good relationship with his child, but I doubt it.

If OP's concern is primarily for the underlying mental condition that is driving this behaviour, then digging into that might be more productive than pushing back.

Further to my example about my father above, I've come to realize that it's his extreme extroversion that's making him crazy. The isolation of covid has severely eroded his sense of well being, so I've done my best to engage him more. I give him a solid 30-45 minutes per phone call to blather on about death without arguing with him, and then try to steer him towards other topics. If he won't change topics, then at least he had someone to talk to and feel less isolated for those 30-45 minutes.

It's not easy or comfortable, but I do it because I love him dearly and believe it's beneficial for him.

In OP's case, there's something driving their father's need to talk about these things. They can either push back, ignore, or take an interest in the underlying driving forces. Or even, some combination of all of the above.

It depends on their particular relationship with their father.

If I wasn't so close to my father, I wouldn't bother listening to his depressing fixation on morbidity and mortality stats, but I am very close to him, so it matters to me to try and support him through this and understand what the hell is going on in his head.

If we weren't close I would probably just hang up the phone once he got going. I have a brother like that, and there's a reason we haven't spoken since covid started.

Relationships are nuanced.

ender

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2021, 07:54:36 AM »
Good response, I agree.
Leave the old guy alone and let him think what he wants.   You're lucky to have him around.

Lucky? Do you know what that word means?

There is a ton of societal pressure for folks to keep good relationships with their biological family ignoring all other factors that can make those relationships completely toxic to them.

If my parents only talked about conspiracy theories (and my dad does talk about them, just not constantly thankfully - it's often enough I empathize with the OP though. we're lucky in that we now have kids to "distract" from the conspiracy crap that otherwise dominates conversations) I'd probably slowly reduce contact. I was doing that prior to #1 being born because the stuff around 2016 was crazy then too.

My parents (father especially) do not add much value to my life on the whole in spite of my having spent many years trying to improve the relationship. I would lose little by just not interacting with them much at all, when I look at it objectively.

Maybe you are blessed with a great relationship with your parents. Not everyone is.

OP's father clearly disrespects the OP if they ignore their wishes in 75%+ conversations and disrespect them enough he "angrily hangs up."

The idea that OP "owes" something to their father to fix them or whatever and bear the emotional burden their father puts on them without having any boundaries is just... not ok.

Now it's possible the OP has a deeper connection to their father than I do mine, and feels more responsibility than I do for "fixing" him, but I just don't engage on my dad on this stuff. He's going to believe it regardless of what I say. I am 100% convinced of this. I spent many years trying to have a better relationship.

OP I sympathize with you. My recommendation is figure out what boundaries you want to set, set them, live them out, and periodically reevaluate them.

You may also enjoy the book I'm reading here https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/who-is-reading-'adult-children-of-emotionally-immature-parents'-with-me/

If your situation is similar to mine, you're going to read that book and go "wow! this... is written about my dad."

Yes, he gets to make his own decisions. But that doesn't mean OP shouldn't try to figure out where these ideas are coming from. He's spouting internet conspiracy theory talking points, not original thoughts, and it seems to be consuming his life in a completely unhealthy way. If I ever go that way . . . oh dear, please someone stage an intervention!

My kids already told me they thought my twitter was toxic. Not "Mom your ideas are wrong" but "Mom, your twitter seems toxic. Mine's all about sports." So I ditched twitter. It was as simple as that.

I've already told my kids that I plan to check myself into a senior apartment hopefully well before I need it . . . and to please talk to me about giving up my car keys if I seem to be having trouble. I have promised them that I will not be difficult about it, and to please remind me that I promised not to be difficult. While I trust my kids, is it possible that one of them might have a spouse who tries to bilk me out of my millions, but I'm not going to worry about that until there are signs of it. Probably they will just marry nice people and do their best to take care of loopy little old Zamboni.

I cite Granny as an example because I do not want to become her. I also hope my kids WiLL protect me and my stash from predatory contractors, phone scams, religious and political cults, etc. when I start losing my critical reasoning skills.

I would not assume because you feel this way about your kids and empowering them that every parent has a similar dynamic so.

What you are saying is completely the opposite of how my dad (and presumably OPs dad too) have interacted with their children.

I'm glad you are a great parent and trust your kids. I have never once recalled my father asking for my advice on anything and I am in my 30s. The idea of him deciding to take unsolicited advice is... well. I empathize with the OP's predicament.

OtherJen

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2021, 08:17:01 AM »
Good response, I agree.
Leave the old guy alone and let him think what he wants.   You're lucky to have him around.

Lucky? Do you know what that word means?

There is a ton of societal pressure for folks to keep good relationships with their biological family ignoring all other factors that can make those relationships completely toxic to them.

If my parents only talked about conspiracy theories (and my dad does talk about them, just not constantly thankfully - it's often enough I empathize with the OP though. we're lucky in that we now have kids to "distract" from the conspiracy crap that otherwise dominates conversations) I'd probably slowly reduce contact. I was doing that prior to #1 being born because the stuff around 2016 was crazy then too.

My parents (father especially) do not add much value to my life on the whole in spite of my having spent many years trying to improve the relationship. I would lose little by just not interacting with them much at all, when I look at it objectively.

Maybe you are blessed with a great relationship with your parents. Not everyone is.

OP's father clearly disrespects the OP if they ignore their wishes in 75%+ conversations and disrespect them enough he "angrily hangs up."

The idea that OP "owes" something to their father to fix them or whatever and bear the emotional burden their father puts on them without having any boundaries is just... not ok.

Now it's possible the OP has a deeper connection to their father than I do mine, and feels more responsibility than I do for "fixing" him, but I just don't engage on my dad on this stuff. He's going to believe it regardless of what I say. I am 100% convinced of this. I spent many years trying to have a better relationship.

OP I sympathize with you. My recommendation is figure out what boundaries you want to set, set them, live them out, and periodically reevaluate them.

You may also enjoy the book I'm reading here https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/who-is-reading-'adult-children-of-emotionally-immature-parents'-with-me/

If your situation is similar to mine, you're going to read that book and go "wow! this... is written about my dad."

I agree with this, too. Sometimes our relationships with other people are unhealthy or even toxic for us. Sometimes those other people are close relatives. Good self-protecting boundaries include accepting the situation for what it is (rather than toxic positivity-guilting ourselves into feeling "lucky") and putting our mental health first.

Sometimes that involves establishing simple actions-have-consequences boundaries: "Dad, I don't want to talk about this again. If you bring it up and refuse to change the subject, I will end the phone call," followed by carrying out the consequence as needed. In extreme cases, it can mean establishing no contact. It doesn't sound like the OP is near needing the latter approach, but the former may be very empowering and could even save the long-term relationship before it is damaged irreparably.

wenchsenior

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2021, 12:18:25 PM »
Good response, I agree.
Leave the old guy alone and let him think what he wants.   You're lucky to have him around.

Lucky? Do you know what that word means?

There is a ton of societal pressure for folks to keep good relationships with their biological family ignoring all other factors that can make those relationships completely toxic to them.

If my parents only talked about conspiracy theories (and my dad does talk about them, just not constantly thankfully - it's often enough I empathize with the OP though. we're lucky in that we now have kids to "distract" from the conspiracy crap that otherwise dominates conversations) I'd probably slowly reduce contact. I was doing that prior to #1 being born because the stuff around 2016 was crazy then too.

My parents (father especially) do not add much value to my life on the whole in spite of my having spent many years trying to improve the relationship. I would lose little by just not interacting with them much at all, when I look at it objectively.

Maybe you are blessed with a great relationship with your parents. Not everyone is.

OP's father clearly disrespects the OP if they ignore their wishes in 75%+ conversations and disrespect them enough he "angrily hangs up."

The idea that OP "owes" something to their father to fix them or whatever and bear the emotional burden their father puts on them without having any boundaries is just... not ok.

Now it's possible the OP has a deeper connection to their father than I do mine, and feels more responsibility than I do for "fixing" him, but I just don't engage on my dad on this stuff. He's going to believe it regardless of what I say. I am 100% convinced of this. I spent many years trying to have a better relationship.

OP I sympathize with you. My recommendation is figure out what boundaries you want to set, set them, live them out, and periodically reevaluate them.

You may also enjoy the book I'm reading here https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/who-is-reading-'adult-children-of-emotionally-immature-parents'-with-me/

If your situation is similar to mine, you're going to read that book and go "wow! this... is written about my dad."

I agree with this, too. Sometimes our relationships with other people are unhealthy or even toxic for us. Sometimes those other people are close relatives. Good self-protecting boundaries include accepting the situation for what it is (rather than toxic positivity-guilting ourselves into feeling "lucky") and putting our mental health first.

Sometimes that involves establishing simple actions-have-consequences boundaries: "Dad, I don't want to talk about this again. If you bring it up and refuse to change the subject, I will end the phone call," followed by carrying out the consequence as needed. In extreme cases, it can mean establishing no contact. It doesn't sound like the OP is near needing the latter approach, but the former may be very empowering and could even save the long-term relationship before it is damaged irreparably.

100% agree with these posts.

Zamboni

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2021, 02:01:41 PM »
Yes, he gets to make his own decisions. But that doesn't mean OP shouldn't try to figure out where these ideas are coming from. He's spouting internet conspiracy theory talking points, not original thoughts, and it seems to be consuming his life in a completely unhealthy way. If I ever go that way . . . oh dear, please someone stage an intervention!

My kids already told me they thought my twitter was toxic. Not "Mom your ideas are wrong" but "Mom, your twitter seems toxic. Mine's all about sports." So I ditched twitter. It was as simple as that.

I've already told my kids that I plan to check myself into a senior apartment hopefully well before I need it . . . and to please talk to me about giving up my car keys if I seem to be having trouble. I have promised them that I will not be difficult about it, and to please remind me that I promised not to be difficult. While I trust my kids, is it possible that one of them might have a spouse who tries to bilk me out of my millions, but I'm not going to worry about that until there are signs of it. Probably they will just marry nice people and do their best to take care of loopy little old Zamboni.

I cite Granny as an example because I do not want to become her. I also hope my kids WiLL protect me and my stash from predatory contractors, phone scams, religious and political cults, etc. when I start losing my critical reasoning skills.

I would not assume because you feel this way about your kids and empowering them that every parent has a similar dynamic so.

What you are saying is completely the opposite of how my dad (and presumably OPs dad too) have interacted with their children.

I'm glad you are a great parent and trust your kids. I have never once recalled my father asking for my advice on anything and I am in my 30s. The idea of him deciding to take unsolicited advice is... well. I empathize with the OP's predicament.

Oh, I definitely don't assume that everyone has this dynamic with their parents or children.  I know that most do not.

When I write "I", that's first person, and I'm speaking about my personal situation and perspective, not trying to extrapolate it to everyone or even you. But let's all just realize that relationship dynamics are choices we all make, at least on our side of the equation. One poster had basically written that someday we are going to resent our kids trying to control our lives, and I just don't think that has to be the way it has to be. I've made peace with the fact that I will gradually lose some independence as I age. Heck, I am absolutely certain I've made peace with dying. Most people don't make peace with those things, which I find odd because they are so natural and predictable. That's all.

Anthony Hopkins recently won an Oscar for playing a Dad like this in the movie The Father. Might be hard to watch, but he's brilliant.

Cassie

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2021, 04:43:34 PM »
Some old people never lose their independence. My mom, aunt and FIL never did.

Zamboni

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2021, 05:13:52 PM »
^Absolutely true!

And some people gradually lose mobility, their cognition, etc. My friend's Mom forgot that she had a glass eye . . . reported to the doctor that she was worried she was going blind in that eye, which made them all freak out about when was the last time she took it out and cleaned it! And she still was adamant she should be living without any help when anyone tried to even have someone check on her daily. It's pretty common for older people to be pretty hostile to their children who are trying to help them. I pledge now to try not to do that if the time comes!

OP, sounds like you have a good plan. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this about your Dad, and wish you peace and happiness.


onecoolcat

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2021, 06:43:28 PM »
Update.  He texted me once today about cheating in the election.  I replied back to him via text that I will not talk politics with him and that if he tries to start a conversation about politics i will end the conversation without warning.  He replied "good just don't talk to me at all".  I don't think he means it and the boundaries are now set.  We will see...

OtherJen

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2021, 07:09:01 PM »
Update.  He texted me once today about cheating in the election.  I replied back to him via text that I will not talk politics with him and that if he tries to start a conversation about politics i will end the conversation without warning.  He replied "good just don't talk to me at all".  I don't think he means it and the boundaries are now set.  We will see...

Hopefully this will relieve some of the pressure on you. If not, this approach does leave plenty of room for a future relationship if he can come to respect the boundary, so that's a positive thing (maybe not in the short term). Good luck.

Metalcat

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2021, 07:10:13 PM »
Update.  He texted me once today about cheating in the election.  I replied back to him via text that I will not talk politics with him and that if he tries to start a conversation about politics i will end the conversation without warning.  He replied "good just don't talk to me at all".  I don't think he means it and the boundaries are now set.  We will see...

That's really sad. 

ender

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2021, 08:38:36 PM »
Update.  He texted me once today about cheating in the election.  I replied back to him via text that I will not talk politics with him and that if he tries to start a conversation about politics i will end the conversation without warning.  He replied "good just don't talk to me at all".  I don't think he means it and the boundaries are now set.  We will see...

I'm sorry you have to deal with this but I'm glad you hopefully have a sense of closure here.

Bateaux

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Re: Dad only Talks about Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2021, 09:39:58 PM »
There is a reason that gimmick hawkers target the elderly.  All that QVC garbage, voodoo medical cures and crystals.  They buy into it.  As a GenX, we never fell for that crap. 

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!