Cycling Oopsy

[amnash]

Hi there,

Just a relatively funny story to share, and I hope the rest of the crowd may offer additional suggestions/advice to my current plight.

I started cycling as a form of entertainment, and ultimately to train my body to start cycling to and from work (~18 miles round trip) 2 nights a week. I work 4 nights a week FT - eventually management is allowing for FT at 3 nights a week at 12 hours shifts. YAY!

Cycling and training has been a process going on before I even knew MMM and his lovely family existed.

My excuse for not executing successfully: I lacked confidence in being on the road (ultimate wussypants) because I was hit by a car training for my first marathon road race by a teenager reaching down into her floorboard for her dropped phone....2 years ago.  Like spiders, I fear drivers unless I am packed in my own car like a sardine. I was running down an empty road with no sidewalks to make it to a trail head when I was hit.  Not exactly something I wanted to repeat. ***EDIT: So you do not assume that I simply stood there to be blasted by a cool toyota camry, she ran off the road onto the grassy edge where I dodged to in order to avoid her.

With cycling, I avoid many of the major roads and will take the bike paths. I'd cycle the pavement at times when no traffic is on them. Unfortunately that does not cater to my work schedule. Friday, I was doing my usual route on the bike and I'll be damned if someone in a parked car at the end of a car-able road didn't open his door as I was rolling past and I gracefully peddled into a ditch at approximately 12 MPH to avoid collision with his door. By gracefully, I mean a screaming train wreck of curse words because I knew where I was heading.

Xrays confirmed that I have a broken arm - a nice radial neck fracture. How lovely?

So it just adds to my nervousness as I sit here with a splint on my arm and an expensive medical bill on its way after my catastrophic insurance plan laughs at my idea of submitting claim when I have a very high dedicutible. I have hopes of selling my car by this winter and wanting to take up cycling fulltime since I am paying for my education in cash in pursuit of my BSN RN degree. I just cannot seem to shake the bit of anxiety I have regarding roads and cars and, OMG, people who drive them.... Suggestions?

[gggggg]

I'm sorry this happened to you. This is going to piss alot of people on here off, but cycling is NOT safe imo. I used to be a competitive road racer (road bikes), and saw, and have been in many crashes. A friend of mine got hit, and I gave up the bike. I don't care what stats people throw up, it's not safe in my opinion; I've seen too much with my own eyes, and been in too many biking accidents, to believe it is. To each their own.

[LeRainDrop]

I have a friend who does a bunch of charity cycling events and he used to ride his bike to commute in San Francisco.  He stopped with the bike commuting after he was hit by a car and got badly injured.  In my city, I witnessed an SUV starting to go through a red light but thankfully stopped just short of colliding with a cyclist who was going downhill had the green light.  I'm pretty sure the cyclist would have been toast if they got hit.  Even Olympian cyclists have accidents sometimes.  https://vine.co/v/5qEATOZl0zJ

ETA:  Wow, my original post was just a downer.  I am very glad to hear that you are healing after your recent accident!  Drivers can be very careless with other cars on the road, let alone with people on bikes or walking.  The best you can do is to just take all the precautions that make sense and realize there will always be some risk involved in cycling, just as there is risk in many other activities we people do.

[kendallf]

The stats show cycling is reasonably safe; much safer than, say, being an obese couch potato..

You'll get anecdotes from people who have made up their minds, one way or another.  Remember that they're not data.  Having said that, here's mine: I have been riding to work, for pleasure, racing, for many years.  Somewhere between 6-10k miles a year, every year.  I have never had an incident with a car, despite riding in a city ranked one of the worst in the nation for cycling, Jacksonville.  Ride like a car, obey traffic laws, ride predictably, ride well lit at night.

[frompa]

Hey Amnash, sorry to hear about your cycling woes. I am not suggesting that either of these accidents were caused by you, but one thing you might consider to up your confidence level in a rational way is to take a course in how to ride the roads safely. I'm not talking about how to stay up on your bike, but how to best position yourself in traffic in various situations and develop your skills (i.e., looking backwards while continuing to ride in a straight line, emergency turning to avoid that most common occurrence of a motor vehicle overtaking and cutting you off, etc.) for maximum safety.  The League of American Bicyclists has a Traffic Skills 101 class that covers the basics, and I hear there's a good one (originating out of Florida, I think) called Cycling Savy.  As to whether cycling is "safe," it's my chosen way to go.  I figure any movement comes with risk, and at least when I'm cycling I'm only going 10 - 20 mph, as opposed to having an accident while driving a motor vehicle, where I'm more likely to be doing at least 40 and maybe upwards of  60-70 mph. Good luck!

[moof]

Bummer!

I was doing my 15 mil round trip 2-3 times a week, but now I only drive when absolutely necessary ( overslept, hauling BBQ's, etc).  I follow the rules of the road, and have gotten more aggressive about taking the whole lane in areas where there are no bike lanes and there is not room to safely pass me.

I resist the urge to assert my right of way when it might get me creamed, basically I assume drivers are half blind and mostly stupid.  So I don't pass traffic on the right near intersections even when I legally could, as it is asking for trouble.

In my area I feel like I have roughly doubled my risk of death by commute vs driving, but I feel so much better.  We got a kid trailer, and trips to the zoo 9 miles away (and up a looooong hill) are a new replacement for driving.  18 miles biking, 2 miles walking, and a packed lunch is so much better than driving, a short walk, and a lousy gut bomb burger as was the old routine.  Better to die living, and to die from sloth.

[amnash]

This is all fantastic advice. I am certain, Fompa, I could use some emergency training on how to avoid being hit- or at least limit the amount of impact. I do not doubt the wreck could have been avoided if I wasn't scooting too closely around the truck, nor was going as fast while rolling casually downhill. I have to be more mindful of my surroundings because I'm aware they do not see me like I see them.  I will be looking up the course to see if it available in my area. I have already researched the rules and regulations of cycling road with cars prior toeven getting on the road at all, spoke with commuters at the local bike shop who provide me education on the care of my bike and listen to their stories. 

I do not intend on throwing in the towel since I almost hit a PARKED car, but it certainly raises my awareness in terms of going the distance and perhaps, taking things slower than I may want for the sake of safety. 2 weeks minimum in a splint (was not a complete or compound break that requires a cast), re-evaluation, and a total of 6 weeks healing time minimum.  Off to a speedy healing.

Thank you all very much for the input. I appreciate it.

[big_slacker]

This is all fantastic advice. I am certain, Fompa, I could use some emergency training on how to avoid being hit- or at least limit the amount of impact. I do not doubt the wreck could have been avoided if I wasn't scooting too closely around the truck, nor was going as fast while rolling casually downhill. I have to be more mindful of my surroundings because I'm aware they do not see me like I see them.  I will be looking up the course to see if it available in my area. I have already researched the rules and regulations of cycling road with cars prior toeven getting on the road at all, spoke with commuters at the local bike shop who provide me education on the care of my bike and listen to their stories. 

I do not intend on throwing in the towel since I almost hit a PARKED car, but it certainly raises my awareness in terms of going the distance and perhaps, taking things slower than I may want for the sake of safety. 2 weeks minimum in a splint (was not a complete or compound break that requires a cast), re-evaluation, and a total of 6 weeks healing time minimum.  Off to a speedy healing.

Thank you all very much for the input. I appreciate it.

First of all, that sucks about your crash. Hope you heal of quick with no complications.

When you're passing parked cars you need to take the lane (safely) to be out of their door zone.

Sounds like you know you've got a gap in education on how to ride defensively/safely and are going to close it, definitely a good idea. Biking around cars definitely requires that be on your game 100%, they generally don't know your right of way and probably don't see you even if you have a nightclub worthy set of flashing lights on you. I've found that outside of freak accidents (just riding along, car hits you from behind type of things) you can see almost every bad situation coming and compensate well ahead of time.

[GuitarStv]

This is all fantastic advice. I am certain, Fompa, I could use some emergency training on how to avoid being hit- or at least limit the amount of impact. I do not doubt the wreck could have been avoided if I wasn't scooting too closely around the truck, nor was going as fast while rolling casually downhill. I have to be more mindful of my surroundings because I'm aware they do not see me like I see them.  I will be looking up the course to see if it available in my area. I have already researched the rules and regulations of cycling road with cars prior toeven getting on the road at all, spoke with commuters at the local bike shop who provide me education on the care of my bike and listen to their stories. 

I do not intend on throwing in the towel since I almost hit a PARKED car, but it certainly raises my awareness in terms of going the distance and perhaps, taking things slower than I may want for the sake of safety. 2 weeks minimum in a splint (was not a complete or compound break that requires a cast), re-evaluation, and a total of 6 weeks healing time minimum.  Off to a speedy healing.

Thank you all very much for the input. I appreciate it.

First of all, that sucks about your crash. Hope you heal of quick with no complications.

When you're passing parked cars you need to take the lane (safely) to be out of their door zone.

Sounds like you know you've got a gap in education on how to ride defensively/safely and are going to close it, definitely a good idea. Biking around cars definitely requires that be on your game 100%, they generally don't know your right of way and probably don't see you even if you have a nightclub worthy set of flashing lights on you. I've found that outside of freak accidents (just riding along, car hits you from behind type of things) you can see almost every bad situation coming and compensate well ahead of time.

+1

You should never pass a car close enough that an opening door could hit you.  You need to take the lane in that scenario, and to do so safely you need to signal and move over well in advance.

There are strategies that aren't intuitive that actually make things much safer for you.  This is a decent website that covers a safer approach to many scenarios (your accident was #2) that you'll run into while cycling:  http://bicyclesafe.com/

[Jack]

Friday, I was doing my usual route on the bike and I'll be damned if someone in a parked car at the end of a car-able road didn't open his door as I was rolling past and I gracefully peddled into a ditch at approximately 12 MPH to avoid collision with his door. By gracefully, I mean a screaming train wreck of curse words because I knew where I was heading.

My advice is to quit huddling over on the edge of the road. All that does is put you in the "door zone" (as you found out) -- and worse, invites drivers to fly past you without significantly moving over and/or slowing down.

Instead, take the lane, regardless of whether you think it annoys drivers behind you (if it does, too bad for them). The decision criteria is that except when you want them to pass, you should position yourself to discourage them from doing so. Remember, even if people think that you should be all the way on the edge just because you're on a skinny bike, they're wrong: you have every right to be on the road, and they should treat you just like any other wide, slow-moving vehicle (e.g. horse-drawn cart or tractor). The more assertively you ride -- neither "aggressively" nor "deferentially" -- the better off you'll be.

Now, I'm not saying you should constantly take the lane on some 55 MPH rural two-lane highway with cars backed up a mile and half behind you! (Personally, I'd try to avoid such a road entirely, or if there were no other choice, at least pull over frequently to let people by.) But in urban areas where you have some chance at keeping the speed differential between you and the cars lower than, say, 15 MPH or so, it works.

[frugalmom]

My then 69 year old mother, who is an avid bicycle rider, was hit last summer.  Mom was on the sidewalk at an intersection that had a 4-way stop sign (her home was 2 blocks from a closed trail and she always rode on the sidewalk that short distance).  Mom was hit and rolled off the front end of a Honda Civic, by a guy making a right hand turn who drove up onto the sidewalk.  This was all done with a local police officer looking on from his cruiser (also at the intersection).  Luckily, it was a small car and a very low speed crash.  Additionally Mom was an early (think 25 years ago) advocate of bike helmets--so she had one on her head.  She ended up having to have knee surgery, and was laid up much of last summer but has rebounded nicely!  It could have been much worse.

I have seen the video both from the police officers car and from his vest.  He was very upset that this young man hit my mother.   After handcuffing the driver he actually asked my mother if she knew him; later he told me watching it was so surreal, that it almost seemed intentional. The best part of him being there was the extraordinarily fast ambulance response time.  Turns out no malice was involved, just a very poor driver who did thankfully have good insurance. 

For the past 40+ years my Mom has biked 200-250 miles per week.  Often in urban areas in "bad neighborhoods", through weather, in the dark.....the only time she gets hit?  Daylight on a suburban sidewalk in route to a closed trail with a police officer present? Go figure!

[honeybbq]

There have been tons of terrible car-cyclist accidents in the past year, and it's not new.  Between the group mowed down in Michigan on a group ride, to cyclists being hit and killed in road races.... it's just horrible. I'm glad you are safe and able to post and not in the ICU or worse.

I train for my races primarily on a trainer due to safety concerns. Which makes it tough, because for races I need to train hills. I try to get out on the weekends when there aren't many people on the road and the weather conditions are good.

 I'd love to be able to commute to work (when DD is in school). But with the darkness and rain here in Seattle, I fear I would only do it in the summer; and maybe not even then. It's not worth it to risk my life when people are so careless and spend so much time on their phones while operating their vehicles. And often there is little recourse, after you hit a cyclist, maybe you get a ticket. Rarely are serious charges placed on the vehicle drivers. 

And I agree with Jack regarding assertiveness. I always take the road. You will get more honks and get flipped off more, but you won't end up in the ditch as often.

[Miss Piggy]

My then 69 year old mother, who is an avid bicycle rider, was hit last summer.  Mom was on the sidewalk at an intersection that had a 4-way stop sign (her home was 2 blocks from a closed trail and she always rode on the sidewalk that short distance).  Mom was hit and rolled off the front end of a Honda Civic, by a guy making a right hand turn who drove up onto the sidewalk.  This was all done with a local police officer looking on from his cruiser (also at the intersection).  Luckily, it was a small car and a very low speed crash.  Additionally Mom was an early (think 25 years ago) advocate of bike helmets--so she had one on her head.  She ended up having to have knee surgery, and was laid up much of last summer but has rebounded nicely!  It could have been much worse.

I have seen the video both from the police officers car and from his vest.  He was very upset that this young man hit my mother.   After handcuffing the driver he actually asked my mother if she knew him; later he told me watching it was so surreal, that it almost seemed intentional. The best part of him being there was the extraordinarily fast ambulance response time.  Turns out no malice was involved, just a very poor driver who did thankfully have good insurance. 

For the past 40+ years my Mom has biked 200-250 miles per week.  Often in urban areas in "bad neighborhoods", through weather, in the dark.....the only time she gets hit?  Daylight on a suburban sidewalk in route to a closed trail with a police officer present? Go figure!

Your mom's a badass!!!!

[mskyle]

Yeah, bad stuff happens sometimes... I almost got hit by a cab on my way home from work the other day, and then the asshole driver yelled at me at the next two lights about how I should have been in the bike lane. Which, #1, it's perfectly legal for me to ride in the street where I was. And #2 I only pulled out of the bike lane because he pulled into it - we would 100% have collided if I'd stayed in the bike lane!

Then, he yelled at me for running the red light... except it was green. He was just so excited to yell at me for running the light he was paying more attention to me than the light.

[GuitarStv]

Yeah, bad stuff happens sometimes... I almost got hit by a cab on my way home from work the other day, and then the asshole driver yelled at me at the next two lights about how I should have been in the bike lane. Which, #1, it's perfectly legal for me to ride in the street where I was. And #2 I only pulled out of the bike lane because he pulled into it - we would 100% have collided if I'd stayed in the bike lane!

Then, he yelled at me for running the red light... except it was green. He was just so excited to yell at me for running the light he was paying more attention to the light than to me.

This sadly, is not uncommon behaviour when observing the driver in his natural habitat.

I was cycling home a few weeks ago and saw the light ahead of me had changed to yellow, so I stopped pedaling and coasted to a stop.  A BMW behind me pulled into the middle lane and gunned his car, slamming on his brakes immediately after entering the intersection on the red and nearly hitting a left turning vehicle.

He put his car into reverse and backed out of the intersection, then unrolled his window and asked me what the hell I was doing.  I told him that I stop for red lights on my bike.  He gave me a dirty look and rolled his window back up.

[big_slacker]

Yeah, bad stuff happens sometimes... I almost got hit by a cab on my way home from work the other day, and then the asshole driver yelled at me at the next two lights about how I should have been in the bike lane. Which, #1, it's perfectly legal for me to ride in the street where I was. And #2 I only pulled out of the bike lane because he pulled into it - we would 100% have collided if I'd stayed in the bike lane!

Then, he yelled at me for running the red light... except it was green. He was just so excited to yell at me for running the light he was paying more attention to the light than to me.

This sadly, is not uncommon behaviour when observing the driver in his natural habitat.

I was cycling home a few weeks ago and saw the light ahead of me had changed to yellow, so I stopped pedaling and coasted to a stop.  A BMW behind me pulled into the middle lane and gunned his car, slamming on his brakes immediately after entering the intersection on the red and nearly hitting a left turning vehicle.

He put his car into reverse and backed out of the intersection, then unrolled his window and asked me what the hell I was doing.  I told him that I stop for red lights on my bike.  He gave me a dirty look and rolled his window back up.

To be fair, that was a BMW driver which is a whole nother breed. :D

[undercover]

He put his car into reverse and backed out of the intersection, then unrolled his window and asked me what the hell I was doing.  I told him that I stop for red lights on my bike.  He gave me a dirty look and rolled his window back up.

"This is obviously more my road than it is yours! I pay GOOD money to drive on these roads and don't deserve this!"

I am on the fence about universal cycling safety. I still think it highly depends on the road, the cyclist, and the area in general, as to whether or not it is safe or not. There's so many variables. The right route helps a lot and being in an area where people know to look out for bikers is another good thing.

[GuitarStv]

The right route helps a lot and being in an area where people know to look out for bikers is another good thing.

Sadly, the only way that people learn to drive around cyclists is when a lot of cyclists start regularly using a particular area.  Driver training regarding cycling laws is shockingly lacking in most places.  I think that an awful lot of the problems I run into on the road would be solved by covering the following for each motorist getting a driver's license:

- You must pass a cyclist with at least three feet of space.
- A cyclist is entitled to use the whole lane if he/she feels it's necessary.
- It's as illegal in most places for a cyclist to use the sidewalk as it is for a car to use the sidewalk.  Cyclists should usually be on the road.
- Honking at a cyclist because they are cycling on the road makes you an idiot.
- If a cyclist has to turn left, they need to move over to the left lane.

[neophyte]

You should never pass a car close enough that an opening door could hit you.  You need to take the lane in that scenario, and to do so safely you need to signal and move over well in advance.

This is literally every single bike lane I've ever seen in my city.  I've wondered about putting the bike lanes down the middle of the road.

[poorboyrichman]

Sorry to hear about your collisions, there's lots you can do to mitigate bad driving but we can never defend ourselves from someone not watching the road, thankfully these are extremely rare events and you still have 7 of your 9 lives left by the sounds of things!

It sounds like the second accident was because you screwed up and got too close to a door, or simply passed too fast for the road conditions. Even if the driver should have looked before opening the door, you messed up!

Read this rather nifty book:

http://www.cyclecraft.org/

I have had two off's, one was my fault, going too fast on a slippery decent, no cars involved, the other, I was whacked as a car overtook and pulled into the junction that I was passing. While the driver was 100% liable, I encouraged the numpty by riding in secondary road position so they felt they were able to pass just before a junction. I was daft, I wasn't riding as safely as I could, I learnt my lesson.

Both of my accidents, and I hazard the vast majority of cycling accidents can be partially allocated to misjudgement on the riders part. While the driver may have driven recklessly, the biker often put themselves in dangerous positions in the first place by choosing the least safe line in the road.

[Northwestie]

I'm sorry this happened to you. This is going to piss alot of people on here off, but cycling is NOT safe imo. I used to be a competitive road racer (road bikes), and saw, and have been in many crashes. A friend of mine got hit, and I gave up the bike. I don't care what stats people throw up, it's not safe in my opinion; I've seen too much with my own eyes, and been in too many biking accidents, to believe it is. To each their own.

By stats - working around the house, driving, stepping of the curb in traffic, golfing for crying out loud is not safe.  I've been biking for 40 yrs including a stint as a messenger.  NYC, D.C., and now Seattle.   Sure - accidents can happen.  But how did we become such chickenshits that we're afraid to get on a goddam bicycle???

My sympathies for the crash victim -  I am constantly vigilant on getting "doored" - and watch for heads in the driver's seat and scan the side view mirror.  Without traffic I give parked cars a wider path.  You definitely need to develop a street sense - and no, you may not be able to anticipate everything.  But Christmas - the alternative to life is sitting on the couch in a fetal position watching stupid TV. 

[amnash]

Hi All,

I certainly take the responsibility of the crash. I take blame for assuming the vehicle was empty. I could have slowed down and crept past.

 However, to clear the confusion of my placement on the road, the road was narrow enough that there were no further margins to take wide paths around it- meaning a door opening up covered any remaining pavement and the ditch would have been my option anyway - I would have hit it regardless of peddling on the outter edge at 2 MPH or 30.  It is an older road used prior as a simple driveway to an old house but used as an entrance to a biking path.

 As stated before, I could have certainly slowed down and taken more precautionary steps prior to rolling up on the vehicle. I could have dismounted and walked past to ensure I was safely around it. It was a large work truck, so I could not see through tinted out back windows. I had my indicators and red flags, I chose to ignore.

[GuitarStv]

Hi All,

I certainly take the responsibility of the crash. I take blame for assuming the vehicle was empty. I could have slowed down and crept past.

 However, to clear the confusion of my placement on the road, the road was narrow enough that there were no further margins to take wide paths around it- meaning a door opening up covered any remaining pavement and the ditch would have been my option anyway - I would have hit it regardless of peddling on the outter edge at 2 MPH or 30.  It is an older road used prior as a simple driveway to an old house but used as an entrance to a biking path.

 As stated before, I could have certainly slowed down and taken more precautionary steps prior to rolling up on the vehicle. I could have dismounted and walked past to ensure I was safely around it. It was a large work truck, so I could not see through tinted out back windows. I had my indicators and red flags, I chose to ignore.

There's a lot of stuff that you learned for next time, and that's good.  It will keep you safer in the future.

You should not take responsibility for the crash though.  The responsibility is 100% on the part of the person opening the damned door.  They should have looked before opening it.  They chose to ignore safety, and you were hurt as a result of their actions.  If they threw a door open as a car was passing and the car hit the door, the fault would be completely on the person opening the door and that's who would have to pay for all damages.

[Miss Piggy]

You should not take responsibility for the crash though.  The responsibility is 100% on the part of the person opening the damned door.  They should have looked before opening it.  They chose to ignore safety, and you were hurt as a result of their actions.  If they threw a door open as a car was passing and the car hit the door, the fault would be completely on the person opening the door and that's who would have to pay for all damages.

I respectfully disagree. There's responsibility on both sides here. Thinking back to my motorcycle safety training, we were trained to always look ahead several seconds for what could go wrong and always have an exit strategy in mind. Accidents can nearly always be avoided with attentive riding and planning (by "planning" I mean simply seconds ahead), and even when it appears that a car driver is 100% at fault, there was probably a way to avoid the accident in the first place by paying very close attention and analyzing the road/situation ahead. Assume nobody in a car sees you, ever, and ride accordingly. Assume the car driver is on the phone, texting, eating, whatever, and ride accordingly. Never assume a car driver has your best interests or your safety in mind. He/she doesn't see you, isn't looking, is distracted, or doesn't care. We all need to keep that in mind.

[GuitarStv]

You should not take responsibility for the crash though.  The responsibility is 100% on the part of the person opening the damned door.  They should have looked before opening it.  They chose to ignore safety, and you were hurt as a result of their actions.  If they threw a door open as a car was passing and the car hit the door, the fault would be completely on the person opening the door and that's who would have to pay for all damages.

I respectfully disagree. There's responsibility on both sides here. Thinking back to my motorcycle safety training, we were trained to always look ahead several seconds for what could go wrong and always have an exit strategy in mind. Accidents can nearly always be avoided with attentive riding and planning (by "planning" I mean simply seconds ahead), and even when it appears that a car driver is 100% at fault, there was probably a way to avoid the accident in the first place by paying very close attention and analyzing the road/situation ahead. Assume nobody in a car sees you, ever, and ride accordingly. Assume the car driver is on the phone, texting, eating, whatever, and ride accordingly. Never assume a car driver has your best interests or your safety in mind. He/she doesn't see you, isn't looking, is distracted, or doesn't care. We all need to keep that in mind.

I feel like taking that stance is blaming the victim.

Is there stuff that she could have done in hindsight to reduce the chance of the accident?  Sure.  It would be a really good idea to do that stuff in the future.

Was the accident her fault?  Nope.  Checking if there's traffic nearby is completely the responsibility of the person opening the door into traffic.  The person who opened the door should be held responsible for the accident.

[Miss Piggy]

I feel like taking that stance is blaming the victim.

Is there stuff that she could have done in hindsight to reduce the chance of the accident?  Sure.  It would be a really good idea to do that stuff in the future.

Was the accident her fault?  Nope.  Checking if there's traffic nearby is completely the responsibility of the person opening the door into traffic.  The person who opened the door should be held responsible for the accident.

I will agree to disagree. We are all responsible for our own safety and need to take responsibility for it. If I can look back at a situation and think "I should have seen that coming," then, well, I should have seen it coming and gotten out of the way. In the U.S. (where there just aren't many bicycle riders), even if the car driver had turned around to see if anyone was coming, he would be looking for cars, and may or may not see a bicycle (because his brain and eyes are looking for a larger object).

Yeah, it sucks that someone got hurt. Really sucks, and I'm sorry it happened, and I hope the recovery is fast. And in hindsight, no, the car driver shouldn't have opened his door at that moment. But more defensive riding would have put the bicycle rider far enough away from the cars that an opening door would not have posed a problem at all.

[Cycling Stache]

Lots of good advice here, and the main one--and the most counterintuitive--is to take the lane.  If there are cars parked on the right, stay out of their door zone, even if it means blocking the entire lane.  Cars behind may be upset, but you're in the right, and you can move closer to the right once you're clear of cars.

The biggest risk you face in cycling on streets is trying to be too accommodating to drivers and hug the edge of the road.  It is almost always an invitation for someone to stay in the lane and buzz you.  I sincerely believe most drivers don't realize what kind of risk they're creating when they do that, but with a car less than a foot away, any error is going to be bad.

The good news is that your arm will heal, and you'll be back on the bike in no time.  You may be a little gun shy the first few rides back, but don't worry about it because that's totally normal.  Just enjoy your ride, and realize that, despite how obnoxious some drivers can be, there are very, very few who would actually try to hurt you.  You're much more likely to be caught by the door on the right, or like your marathon example, someone doing something completely unpredictable, than an angry driver hitting you from behind.

Fyi, unlike the rest of my weekday runs, I do my early Sunday morning runs in the dark without a light.  I've always been more worried about attracting the occasional drunk driver with the flashing light than being able to get out of the way of normal traffic!

[GuitarStv]

I feel like taking that stance is blaming the victim.

Is there stuff that she could have done in hindsight to reduce the chance of the accident?  Sure.  It would be a really good idea to do that stuff in the future.

Was the accident her fault?  Nope.  Checking if there's traffic nearby is completely the responsibility of the person opening the door into traffic.  The person who opened the door should be held responsible for the accident.

I will agree to disagree. We are all responsible for our own safety and need to take responsibility for it. If I can look back at a situation and think "I should have seen that coming," then, well, I should have seen it coming and gotten out of the way. In the U.S. (where there just aren't many bicycle riders), even if the car driver had turned around to see if anyone was coming, he would be looking for cars, and may or may not see a bicycle (because his brain and eyes are looking for a larger object).

Yeah, it sucks that someone got hurt. Really sucks, and I'm sorry it happened, and I hope the recovery is fast. And in hindsight, no, the car driver shouldn't have opened his door at that moment. But more defensive riding would have put the bicycle rider far enough away from the cars that an opening door would not have posed a problem at all.

If a woman walking down a dark alley in a miniskirt is raped, do you see that assault as her responsibility?

[Miss Piggy]

If a woman walking down a dark alley in a miniskirt is raped, do you see that assault as her responsibility?

Not engaging in this debate, which has nothing to do with bicycle safety.

[johnny847]

If a woman walking down a dark alley in a miniskirt is raped, do you see that assault as her responsibility?

Not engaging in this debate, which has nothing to do with bicycle safety.

It has nothing to do with bicycle safety but everything to do with your faulty logic. The fact is that while it is illegal to open a car door out into the street when it endangers others, you still cling to the idea that somehow the cyclist has the responsibility to avoid getting doored.

By your logic, a woman walking down a dark alley in a miniskirt who is raped is partially to blame for said rape.

[Northwestie]

If a woman walking down a dark alley in a miniskirt is raped, do you see that assault as her responsibility?

Not engaging in this debate, which has nothing to do with bicycle safety.

It has nothing to do with bicycle safety but everything to do with your faulty logic. The fact is that while it is illegal to open a car door out into the street when it endangers others, you still cling to the idea that somehow the cyclist has the responsibility to avoid getting doored.

By your logic, a woman walking down a dark alley in a miniskirt who is raped is partially to blame for said rape.

I think the distinction is the between being "right" and remaining on your bike.   People make mental errors - I'm very bike aware and I'm sure there's been a couple of times when I opened by door with out looking in the mirror.   I am hyper-vigilant about riding between traffic and parked cars- always scanning ahead for folks in parked cars - and if I can't quite tell then I adjust my speed accordingly or take up the lane if not impeding the speed of traffic.

It will not matter much to you if the guy ran a stop sign and you assumed he would stop - you were lawful but now you are broken up.  If you want to keep the rubber side down - be very vigilant and take full responsibility for your safety.  They call them accidents for a reason and it's still possible.  Be safe.

[Miss Piggy]

My point is that as bicyclists, we are responsible for our own safety, regardless of laws. As an example, drivers are required by law to stop at stop signs, but sometimes they don't, and I need to be on the lookout for that so I don't get t-boned. In the OP's instance, luckily she didn't experience any catastrophic injuries (thank goodness!).

Let's say I get t-boned at an intersection and end up paralyzed because I assumed a car driver would stop at the stop sign and he didn't. From a legal standpoint, yeah, it's his fault I got hit. But from an injury standpoint, placing blame doesn't really help me much...the damage is done. So what, if anything, could I have done to prevent it? Would the situation have turned out differently if I assumed that the driver was texting, or pissed because he just found out his wife is cheating on him, or distracted because he's thinking about the meeting he's about to have with his boss, or drunk, or asleep at the wheel? Possibly, because I would likely slow down at the intersection until it was painfully obvious that the car was coming to a stop. (On a related note, when I'm driving my car, I make it a point to actively wave a rider or pedestrian on, so they know I see them and it's safe to go. But as a driver, I'm sure I've done a few stupid things or overlooked a pedestrian once in a while, too.)

I never wanted to get into an argument about laws or the legality of opening a car door without looking to see if there's a bicyclist coming. I simply wanted to put some thoughts into the thread about thinking and riding proactively/defensively to avoid getting hurt, because drivers break laws and do stupid things all the time. We don't want to forget that.

[AlwaysLearningToSave]

If a woman walking down a dark alley in a miniskirt is raped, do you see that assault as her responsibility?

Not engaging in this debate, which has nothing to do with bicycle safety.

It has nothing to do with bicycle safety but everything to do with your faulty logic. The fact is that while it is illegal to open a car door out into the street when it endangers others, you still cling to the idea that somehow the cyclist has the responsibility to avoid getting doored.

By your logic, a woman walking down a dark alley in a miniskirt who is raped is partially to blame for said rape.

Nobody's logic is faulty.  Both are correct.  GuitarStv and Miss Piggy are just talking past one another because they are thinking about two different topics-- GuitarStv is focused on legal responsibility and Miss Piggy is focused on personal responsibility to protect oneself. 

The car door accident scenario is entirely preventable if either one of the two parties does something different.  Thus, both parties' behavior contributes to the accident.  The legal system, in an attempt to make our lives more orderly and predictable, gives the cyclist the right of way by assigning the legal responsibility to the driver to avoid opening a door into passing traffic.  The driver's neglect of that responsibility when opening the door leads to legal liability even though the cyclist conceivably could have done something to prevent the accident and subsequent injury.  The cyclist should be able to rely on drivers to not open their doors as the cyclist is passing.  In this sense, GuitarStv is absolutely correct.

But the legal system sucks because it can't undo the accident.  All the law can do is make someone pay for damages.  Thus, if a cyclist's goal is to not get injured while cycling, the cyclist will take extra measure to ensure his or her own safety by doing things like giving a car door a wide berth on the off chance the driver flings it open at exactly the wrong moment.  In this sense, Miss Piggy is absolutely correct.

This also applies to the woman in a dark alley analogy.  The law forbids rape.  A woman should be able to walk down any dark alley she wants wearing anything she wants-- or nothing at all-- and not get raped.  And if a person is raped, the law places legal responsibility entirely on rapist (as it should) regardless of whether the victim may have been able to do something differently to avoid the situation.  But again, the legal system sucks and can only punish someone for raping someone else-- the law cannot un-rape someone.  If a person's goal is to not get raped, then the person would be wise to not simply rely on the law and instead take reasonable steps to avoid placing oneself in dangerous situations.

Trying to think of ways people can better protect themselves and avoid being victimized in the first place is not the same thing as "blaming the victim." 

[Miss Piggy]

Very well-said, AlwaysLearning!

[GuitarStv]

Yeah, my intention is certainly not to advocate cycling close to parked car doors . . . but just to try and limit some of the self recrimination that amnash might be feeling.  The first thing I do after an accident is go through alternate scenarios and beat up on myself for being stupid.  In this case, there was stuff that she could have done to make the accident less likely to happen, but it's important to remember that the guy who opened the door shares (in my opinion) the lion's share of the blame.

[johnny847]

I guess I misunderstood your original statement Miss Piggy. I had assumed that because you used the word responsibility you were talking in a legal sense.

I totally agree that every cyclist should be advised not to bike in the zone next to parked cars because there will always be drivers who don't follow the law. (that's not to say all cyclists follow the law either - I see plenty of cyclists running red lights, riding on the sidewalk, etc.).

[Miss Piggy]

aaaawwww...group hug?  ;)

amnash, no harm intended. I hope for a quick recovery for you.

[AlwaysLearningToSave]

This is why I love this forum.  I can't think of very many other places on the internet (or in real life, for that matter) where disagreements like this can resolve so amicably, with everyone understanding each other's point of view.  Most places this would devolve into name calling and a shouting match.  Good work everyone!

[AlanStache]

Learning to ride is as much about predicting drivers as it is physical fitness and bike handling.

In addition to car doors I would also suggest giving any tall vegetation an extra foot or three.  I was ridding along a bush and did not notice a branch sticking out more than the others, it hit my handle bars, spun my front wheel sideways and put me on the ground.  No injury but felt really stupid, since then I give anything off the ground along the side of the road a few feet clearance. 

[johnny847]

Haha group hug guys!

Hopefully you'll be back on the saddle in no time amnash!