Author Topic: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition  (Read 17666 times)

blurkraken22

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #100 on: November 01, 2020, 02:59:37 AM »
Aside from all the people who can't for some reason, there are also a decent number of people out there who say they are self-isolating. Except they go to the store. And the hair dresser. And they're eating out at restaurants. Or whatever. A true self-isolation is hard, and there's a lot of people who are too selfish or delusional who will lie about their exposure, deliberately or not.

I'm not truly self-isolating. My risk is fairly low because I'm not going places all the time, but it's not zero. And I'm pretty open about that. If someone is concerned and would prefer not to see me in person, I understand.

That's my entire family. Except my brother. Not that he's isolating. He's just willing to admit that he's not.

My dad was trying to explain to me that I should get in the car and go get takeout during quarantine so that I don't have to share a kitchen with him. Uh, thanks Dad, but that's not actually how a quarantine works. He starting mansplaining to me that "common sense" says going to get drive-through fast food is perfectly safe. We're gonna find somewhere else to quarantine.

My mom tells me she's being safe too. She was just a vendor at a 150 booth artisan fair. But it was outside, therefore safe. Uh, Mom, I think in GA that could quickly turn into a super-spreader event, but I wasn't there, so use your best judgement. I guess?

I don't know how to assess how safe my friends are being without asking them to fill out a questionnaire about what they consider to be safe distancing practices. Everyone has their own "little" compromises that they're willing to take that they're convinced are no big deal. 

There's a lot less talk of inside vs outside in this country (but I'm in a place with effectively no corona virus circulating, so we're in the process of opening). What kind of magic does being outdoors have?

How do you define your bubble? You have a list of friends/family members that you allow yourself to interact with?

I'm having some anxiety about going back to the US and expectations that we should probably visit with family and friends. Thanks OP for starting this thread.

EDITS: Always have one more thing to add, and also spelling.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 03:01:45 AM by blurkraken22 »

NotJen

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #101 on: November 01, 2020, 05:45:20 AM »
What kind of magic does being outdoors have?

Ventilation.  I've been led to believe that good ventilation helps exchange the air and prevent spread.

Of course, lots of people believe they are "immune" if they are outside, which is not the case.  You still need to wear masks and distance, but your risk is a lot lower than being indoors.

Arbitrage

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #102 on: November 01, 2020, 07:08:32 AM »
What kind of magic does being outdoors have?

Ventilation.  I've been led to believe that good ventilation helps exchange the air and prevent spread.

Of course, lots of people believe they are "immune" if they are outside, which is not the case.  You still need to wear masks and distance, but your risk is a lot lower than being indoors.

To embellish further, the risk of infection is not that one stray virus gets in your body.  It takes some (unknown, and likely variable depending upon your own immune system) number of them to take hold and start replicating in your body sufficiently to get you sick, or at least contagious.  Ventilation disperses aerosols that may contain concentrated virus.  Maybe you still inhale one or two of them, but not enough to infect you, unless you remain exposed to an infected person for an extended time, or perhaps if you directly ingest droplets from sneezing/coughing/talking, especially in the absence of masks and distance that inhibit much of the droplet-based transmission.

It's also thought, but not proven, that a lower initial viral load may cause your infection to be less severe.

Arbitrage

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #103 on: November 01, 2020, 07:14:54 AM »
We're going to be faced with the holiday dilemma as well soon.  I didn't think we'd have much to worry about, as we're across the country from most of our family and don't gather with them for Thanksgiving or Christmas anymore.  We do often see a group of good friends, but as they're having out-of-town relatives over for Thanksgiving we're going to eschew that. 

However, I just found out that my mother is coming in to town for about a month to be with her ailing mother, as allowed by the nursing home.  I plan to invite her over to our small gathering (just my family and MIL), but am going to have to be a bit wary of how we do it; my mother's husband keeps them steeped in a 24-hour bath of Fox News and Trump tweets, and I think I'm going to have to set some very clear ground rules.  I know that my mother was taking the pandemic seriously at first (at odds with StepF) but 7 months of this may have changed that. 

Plus, she's staying at the house of other relatives whom I know are also Trump voters.  They are also likely inviting us over during my mother's stay.  I'm going to have to do some research into how seriously they are taking this and what their potential level of exposure is. 

Sibley

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #104 on: November 01, 2020, 09:53:13 AM »
We're going to be faced with the holiday dilemma as well soon.  I didn't think we'd have much to worry about, as we're across the country from most of our family and don't gather with them for Thanksgiving or Christmas anymore.  We do often see a group of good friends, but as they're having out-of-town relatives over for Thanksgiving we're going to eschew that. 

However, I just found out that my mother is coming in to town for about a month to be with her ailing mother, as allowed by the nursing home.  I plan to invite her over to our small gathering (just my family and MIL), but am going to have to be a bit wary of how we do it; my mother's husband keeps them steeped in a 24-hour bath of Fox News and Trump tweets, and I think I'm going to have to set some very clear ground rules.  I know that my mother was taking the pandemic seriously at first (at odds with StepF) but 7 months of this may have changed that. 

Plus, she's staying at the house of other relatives whom I know are also Trump voters.  They are also likely inviting us over during my mother's stay.  I'm going to have to do some research into how seriously they are taking this and what their potential level of exposure is.

Or you could just make it easier on yourself and decline all of it, regardless, no exceptions.

MayDay

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #105 on: November 01, 2020, 10:48:56 AM »
We were feeling ok about visiting H's family (only 5 people) over the holidays. All 5 are being quite careful (we thought).

Then cases rose and are still rising.

Now we found out his sister just had a Halloween party with 15-20 people. And we are questioning how safe she is actually being if she thought it was reasonable to put a party all over Facebook.

Ahhhhhhhhh. People suck. 

Kroaler

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #106 on: November 01, 2020, 11:49:26 AM »
I live in the American south.

The whole thing is a Hoax down here. Hardly anyone is doing anything.

My own mom tries to see how far she can get into stores before they ask her to wear a mask. People are blacklisting businesses because they follow the state mandate for businesses to require folks to wear mask.

So no Holiday guilt here. Only stupidity.

Sibley

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #107 on: November 01, 2020, 02:49:25 PM »
I've had a recurring nightmare for the past several months. It's 5 or 10 years from now (time frame varies), and suddenly, people start dying. Doctors can't figure out why. Thousands, hundreds of thousands, then millions of dead bodies. All over the world but the US is particularly hard hit. Then the scientists figure it out. It's covid. Initial death rate is very low. Long term death rate is very high.

I hope that my nightmare doesn't come true. I guess I'll find out in 10 years.

RetiredAt63

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #108 on: November 01, 2020, 03:21:57 PM »
I've had a recurring nightmare for the past several months. It's 5 or 10 years from now (time frame varies), and suddenly, people start dying. Doctors can't figure out why. Thousands, hundreds of thousands, then millions of dead bodies. All over the world but the US is particularly hard hit. Then the scientists figure it out. It's covid. Initial death rate is very low. Long term death rate is very high.

I hope that my nightmare doesn't come true. I guess I'll find out in 10 years.

Your subconscious is quite the pessimist.  Yikes.

NotJen

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #109 on: November 01, 2020, 03:26:11 PM »
I've had a recurring nightmare for the past several months. It's 5 or 10 years from now (time frame varies), and suddenly, people start dying. Doctors can't figure out why. Thousands, hundreds of thousands, then millions of dead bodies. All over the world but the US is particularly hard hit. Then the scientists figure it out. It's covid. Initial death rate is very low. Long term death rate is very high.

I hope that my nightmare doesn't come true. I guess I'll find out in 10 years.

That is terrifying, but I would TOTALLY read that as a novel!

Captain Cactus

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #110 on: November 02, 2020, 07:43:34 AM »
I've had a recurring nightmare for the past several months. It's 5 or 10 years from now (time frame varies), and suddenly, people start dying. Doctors can't figure out why. Thousands, hundreds of thousands, then millions of dead bodies. All over the world but the US is particularly hard hit. Then the scientists figure it out. It's covid. Initial death rate is very low. Long term death rate is very high.

I hope that my nightmare doesn't come true. I guess I'll find out in 10 years.

That is terrifying, but I would TOTALLY read that as a novel!

Any bets this is gonna be a movie in a year or two?

tygertygertyger

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #111 on: November 02, 2020, 07:49:58 AM »
Ha it already is! Look up "Songbird" trailer.

Captain Cactus

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #112 on: November 02, 2020, 07:59:30 AM »
Ha it already is! Look up "Songbird" trailer.

Oh baby...just watched it. 

Sibley

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #113 on: November 02, 2020, 09:49:40 AM »
I've had a recurring nightmare for the past several months. It's 5 or 10 years from now (time frame varies), and suddenly, people start dying. Doctors can't figure out why. Thousands, hundreds of thousands, then millions of dead bodies. All over the world but the US is particularly hard hit. Then the scientists figure it out. It's covid. Initial death rate is very low. Long term death rate is very high.

I hope that my nightmare doesn't come true. I guess I'll find out in 10 years.

That is terrifying, but I would TOTALLY read that as a novel!

Any bets this is gonna be a movie in a year or two?

I'm an auditor, so if someone else makes the movie fine. I probably don't want to watch it. It's plenty to have this nightmare about once a week since May.

familyandfarming

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #114 on: November 02, 2020, 06:20:07 PM »
My younger sister and I are planning on cooking up a storm in our respective kitchens, meeting on our older sisterís (her husband was just diagnosed with a brain tumor) porch and outside our 92 year old momís door (she lives in a senior apartment complex where someone was just quarantined with Covid) with a diabetic Thanksgiving feast! We of course will wear masks delivering the food to their porches/doors and will go to our respective cars and have a group phone call about what we are thankful for!

Weíve discussed our plans and all involved are excited about the fun. We are including some fun gifts to pack leftovers into additional meals, with some Thanksgiving hand towels, hand soaps and Bath and Bodyworks smelly hand sanitizers.

We love our family too much to bring something negative into their already difficult lives. I hope our plans can inspire others on this blog.

blue_green_sparks

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #115 on: November 03, 2020, 08:22:40 AM »
I hope people are sensible this season...or else our beloved jingles should be made warnings...

'Tis the Season to not be Spreading....
We Wish you a Merry Recovery and Hope You See the New Year !
God Rest Ye Fallen Gentleman
Deck the halls with IV's o' steroids, fa la la la la la la la la
T'was the Night before Christmas and the Virus was all through the house

Dollar Slice

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #116 on: November 03, 2020, 08:40:43 AM »
I hope people are sensible this season...or else our beloved jingles should be made warnings...

I'll suggest to my musician friends that they start working on rhyme schemes involving "remdesivir" and "dexamethasone." That's gonna take some effort.

Neustache

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #117 on: November 03, 2020, 08:46:08 AM »
My husband's Uncle died of CoVid in early October.  Found out today that the son who probably infected him died today(not sure of what.....he has substance abuse problems plus had Covid in September).  I can't imagine the guilt one would feel about infecting someone who died.   My husband's aunt lost a husband and now a son in one month. 

Had Halloween down in the woods with family.  We stayed outside (except to quickly dish up our plates with masks and gloves on) and visited in the fresh air at a distance.  It was beautiful weather.  Kids played with masks on outside and we tried to keep a distance but it was hard during tether ball.  Had a Halloween egg hunt in the wood for candy in lieu of trick or treating.  Kids had a blast and said it was our best Halloween yet.   We had our own separate cabin from my parents and my sister and nephew (my sister and nephew are still pretty hunkered down).

Even with knowing how exposed I am now (teacher) my mom proposed all of us eating in doors.  I politely refused.  I will not be the one to cause someone else to die.  If someone catches it with all of our precautions, I feel like we did our best (short of not seeing each other in person for the next year). 

I did sign up for a vaccine trial.  I'm willing to risk CoVid in a controlled way that may help others (or at least determine it's not a safe or effective vaccine!)

Dollar Slice

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #118 on: November 03, 2020, 09:45:03 AM »
I can't imagine the guilt one would feel about infecting someone who died.

Yes! This is a big part of why I'm so careful. I now have two friends who had a parent die of/with COVID, a friend whose in-laws both died of it, and a friend whose mother and stepfather currently have it. Most of them got it from their kids or some kind of health aides. If I gave it to my parents I would be completely devastated. They're the only people in my 'bubble' and we all have to be careful enough to protect each other.

I also volunteered for a vaccine trial, but they never called me. I think some of my medical issues disqualified me, but I figured I'd let them decide if I would be a good test case for them or not, since people with these same medical issues will eventually have to be vaccinated.

jrhampt

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #119 on: November 03, 2020, 10:01:56 AM »
I can't imagine the guilt one would feel about infecting someone who died.

Yes! This is a big part of why I'm so careful. I now have two friends who had a parent die of/with COVID, a friend whose in-laws both died of it, and a friend whose mother and stepfather currently have it. Most of them got it from their kids or some kind of health aides. If I gave it to my parents I would be completely devastated. They're the only people in my 'bubble' and we all have to be careful enough to protect each other.

I also volunteered for a vaccine trial, but they never called me. I think some of my medical issues disqualified me, but I figured I'd let them decide if I would be a good test case for them or not, since people with these same medical issues will eventually have to be vaccinated.

Same.  My father in law got it in April and it was a miserable month of not being able to see him or speak to him and not always knowing how he was doing while lots of other people at his facility were dying.  He survived, but I don't wish to go through that again, and I never want to be the cause of that experience for someone else.  My mother in law and her husband keep inviting us inside but I tell them there is no guarantee we are safe for them and keep insisting on outdoors with masks on.  It sucks to be the one to always say no, but just had another (hopefully) near miss in my social circle this weekend.  So I'm not doing holiday dinners this year, and I'm still not socializing indoors.  End of story. 

Just Joe

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #120 on: November 11, 2020, 01:53:26 PM »
DW and I had a conversation last night and it was good to hear that we are on the same page.

No driving to the extended family relatives for T-day. We're characterizing it as we are the risk and we're trying to protect them - the elderly members who will be present. Whole family of southern non-maskers with a dose of denial/fake news/QAnon thrown in potentially. We'll Zoom teleconference from our house.

We would have no control over who shows up and no control over their behavior (mask, no mask, distancing, etc). It potentially could be a large group if the usual folks come. We really want to see everyone but not this year after COVID. The election could lead to some awkward conversations. Nope, we didn't vote for their candidates.

On top of that COVID is currently working its way through one part of the family in that city. I'm pretty sure that the whole house did not quarantine. I just about guarantee that one of them will come to the meal.

Hoping that we can use the same strategy at Christmas. 

Sibley

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #121 on: November 11, 2020, 02:05:07 PM »
Well, topic officially came up last night with my parents. They aren't thrilled, but understand. Thanksgiving is off - everyone is staying home. And told them that while Christmas isn't decided yet, it's not looking good. Then got to go over, again, all the reasons why covid numbers are spiking.

Hotstreak

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #122 on: November 11, 2020, 08:49:09 PM »
Big family Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners are definitely canceled.  My parents have been hosting family dinners outside over the summer, but don't want to be out in the cold, and will not be doing anything.  I haven't decided on plans but may get together with another family for dinner.

dignam

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #123 on: November 12, 2020, 07:00:15 AM »
We've been back and forth about what to do.  We (my gf and I) at the moment plan to have T-day dinner with my immediate family.  We've all been near each other lately and all live in the same county (except my sister who lives out East), and we all WFH and don't do stupid shit like go to bars or large gatherings.  Even so, I'm starting to lean towards telling Mom we won't be coming...

Arbitrage

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #124 on: November 12, 2020, 10:03:35 AM »
My decision got easier, as it was made for me - my mother will no longer be traveling to our area this month.  As such, our Thanksgiving will be limited to just our family and my MIL (who doesn't live with us but also doesn't see anyone other than us). 

The biggest risk is myself, as I've been traveling for work for the better part of three weeks.  I'm 100% diligent about PPE and avoiding all unnecessary human contact, but unfortunately am still forced into risky situations (airport, plane ride, and occasional days at work with people who are both less diligent and not sufficiently distanced).  Hope to get through this trip safely and then avoid all travel until I can get vaccinated. 

goat_music_generator

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #125 on: November 12, 2020, 10:37:15 AM »
My mom floated the idea of having everyone "quarantine" for 3 weeks pre-Thanksgiving, so that we could have an indoor sit-down meal. Unfortunately, that's not really possible, because a) my dad and stepmom probably wouldn't agree to it (stepmom thinks the virus is overblown / "just like the flu"; they've been "careful" except for their "trusted circle of friends" who they see in-person for indoor dinners...), b) I wouldn't really trust everyone to have the same definition of "quarantine," and c) my sister wouldn't want to come anyway, because she'd rather take this as an excuse to avoid the big family gatherings.

Right now we're bubbled with my husband's parents, who we basically trust to actually be careful. They're unfortunately still going to grocery stores, which we hope we can talk them out of, but otherwise are on a similar risk level to us. Tentative plan for Thanksgiving is to have a meal with them and some kind of Zoom thing with his extended family, and then do something outdoors with my family the day after. We usually go to a local Christmas tree farm the day after Thanksgiving, so I'd ideally like to do that + masks + distancing.

But: cases are at their highest point ever now, and likely to get worse in the next few weeks. It may be that our risk tolerance goes down too far for even those activities by then. We'll see.

I'm hopeful that once deaths start skyrocketing, people will collectively notice, freak out, and course correct. But everyone may just be too tired of quarantine even then.

charis

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #126 on: November 12, 2020, 12:14:45 PM »
My parents, sibling, and parents in law want to come to our house as usual. We regularly have contact with my immediate family bc they babysit on a weekly basis.  My sibling has a public facing job but gets tested regularly in addition to ppe etc. My parents shop but wear masks and get semi regular tests. My in laws barely leave the house. Our kids have contact with classmates and I work in a solitary location, but it's outside of the house.

We won't be able to strictly quarantine, but plan to test ahead of time and stay in as much a possible beforehand.  Dinner will be shorter, with open windows/fans, good spacing, and masks when not eating.

DizzyDaisies

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #127 on: November 14, 2020, 06:57:19 AM »
What do you do when thereís disagreement within the household? My spouseís family is having a large, indoor Christmas gathering, complete with relatives flying in from out of state. We are in a high transmission state and they are coming from high transmission states. 7 total states will be represented at this gathering. Some of these relatives havenít visited for Christmas in over 10 years! Why did they decide that THIS year is a good year to come visit? There will be elderly people at this gathering and others in high risk groups (including one of my children). I am literally the only person out of these 35 people who thinks this is a bad idea. My spouse has no problem with this and the family thinks the virus is no worse than the flu/hyped by the media and will miraculously disappear after the election.

I donít know what to do. I can stay home but I donít know that I can force my spouse to leave our children home. I also know our children will be very upset to miss out on seeing their cousins who they rarely see. Is anyone else having disagreement within the household? How are you resolving it?

ixtap

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #128 on: November 14, 2020, 07:08:08 AM »
Dang. I want the guilt to go on the idiots. We never even got to consider visiting our parents for the holidays because our siblings who are local to our parents don't believe in COVID precautions and at some point our parents gave up on isolating from their grandkids who are all out and about as much as possible.

Malcat

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #129 on: November 14, 2020, 09:10:21 AM »
What do you do when thereís disagreement within the household? My spouseís family is having a large, indoor Christmas gathering, complete with relatives flying in from out of state. We are in a high transmission state and they are coming from high transmission states. 7 total states will be represented at this gathering. Some of these relatives havenít visited for Christmas in over 10 years! Why did they decide that THIS year is a good year to come visit? There will be elderly people at this gathering and others in high risk groups (including one of my children). I am literally the only person out of these 35 people who thinks this is a bad idea. My spouse has no problem with this and the family thinks the virus is no worse than the flu/hyped by the media and will miraculously disappear after the election.

I donít know what to do. I can stay home but I donít know that I can force my spouse to leave our children home. I also know our children will be very upset to miss out on seeing their cousins who they rarely see. Is anyone else having disagreement within the household? How are you resolving it?

Yes, you can put your foot down and insist that your spouse not take your children and put them in danger. You can also insist that they quarantine elsewhere when they return for two weeks, and if they refuse that, you and the kids can quarantine elsewhere.

You handle it relative to how important it is to you. If the safety of your children is that high a priority, you make that big a deal about it.

If my DH insisted on going to a giant, indoor, unprotected family gathering in the US and insisted on coming straight home, you bet your ass I wouldn't be here when he got back.

Kris

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #130 on: November 14, 2020, 10:04:14 AM »
What do you do when thereís disagreement within the household? My spouseís family is having a large, indoor Christmas gathering, complete with relatives flying in from out of state. We are in a high transmission state and they are coming from high transmission states. 7 total states will be represented at this gathering. Some of these relatives havenít visited for Christmas in over 10 years! Why did they decide that THIS year is a good year to come visit? There will be elderly people at this gathering and others in high risk groups (including one of my children). I am literally the only person out of these 35 people who thinks this is a bad idea. My spouse has no problem with this and the family thinks the virus is no worse than the flu/hyped by the media and will miraculously disappear after the election.

I donít know what to do. I can stay home but I donít know that I can force my spouse to leave our children home. I also know our children will be very upset to miss out on seeing their cousins who they rarely see. Is anyone else having disagreement within the household? How are you resolving it?

Yes, you can put your foot down and insist that your spouse not take your children and put them in danger. You can also insist that they quarantine elsewhere when they return for two weeks, and if they refuse that, you and the kids can quarantine elsewhere.

You handle it relative to how important it is to you. If the safety of your children is that high a priority, you make that big a deal about it.

If my DH insisted on going to a giant, indoor, unprotected family gathering in the US and insisted on coming straight home, you bet your ass I wouldn't be here when he got back.

+1.

wenchsenior

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #131 on: November 14, 2020, 10:31:32 AM »
What do you do when there’s disagreement within the household? My spouse’s family is having a large, indoor Christmas gathering, complete with relatives flying in from out of state. We are in a high transmission state and they are coming from high transmission states. 7 total states will be represented at this gathering. Some of these relatives haven’t visited for Christmas in over 10 years! Why did they decide that THIS year is a good year to come visit? There will be elderly people at this gathering and others in high risk groups (including one of my children). I am literally the only person out of these 35 people who thinks this is a bad idea. My spouse has no problem with this and the family thinks the virus is no worse than the flu/hyped by the media and will miraculously disappear after the election.

I don’t know what to do. I can stay home but I don’t know that I can force my spouse to leave our children home. I also know our children will be very upset to miss out on seeing their cousins who they rarely see. Is anyone else having disagreement within the household? How are you resolving it?

Yes, you can put your foot down and insist that your spouse not take your children and put them in danger. You can also insist that they quarantine elsewhere when they return for two weeks, and if they refuse that, you and the kids can quarantine elsewhere.

You handle it relative to how important it is to you. If the safety of your children is that high a priority, you make that big a deal about it.

If my DH insisted on going to a giant, indoor, unprotected family gathering in the US and insisted on coming straight home, you bet your ass I wouldn't be here when he got back.

+1.

Same. If my spouse pulled that crap, we would be in marriage counseling in very short order.

Some people's disregard of the safety of those they supposedly love is just...astonishing. 

ETA: In happier news, we are experiencing zero holiday-related guilt b/c we typically don't spend holidays with family and haven't in years. With the exception of one relative (who we usually host for Christmas), they are all way too far-flung to see with any regularity.  And I'm sure as shit not flying anywhere right now, even if holiday visits were the norm.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 10:34:52 AM by wenchsenior »

TheFrenchCat

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #132 on: November 14, 2020, 12:36:34 PM »
What do you do when thereís disagreement within the household? My spouseís family is having a large, indoor Christmas gathering, complete with relatives flying in from out of state. We are in a high transmission state and they are coming from high transmission states. 7 total states will be represented at this gathering. Some of these relatives havenít visited for Christmas in over 10 years! Why did they decide that THIS year is a good year to come visit? There will be elderly people at this gathering and others in high risk groups (including one of my children). I am literally the only person out of these 35 people who thinks this is a bad idea. My spouse has no problem with this and the family thinks the virus is no worse than the flu/hyped by the media and will miraculously disappear after the election.

I donít know what to do. I can stay home but I donít know that I can force my spouse to leave our children home. I also know our children will be very upset to miss out on seeing their cousins who they rarely see. Is anyone else having disagreement within the household? How are you resolving it?

Yes, you can put your foot down and insist that your spouse not take your children and put them in danger. You can also insist that they quarantine elsewhere when they return for two weeks, and if they refuse that, you and the kids can quarantine elsewhere.

You handle it relative to how important it is to you. If the safety of your children is that high a priority, you make that big a deal about it.

If my DH insisted on going to a giant, indoor, unprotected family gathering in the US and insisted on coming straight home, you bet your ass I wouldn't be here when he got back.

+1.

Same. If my spouse pulled that crap, we would be in marriage counseling in very short order.

Some people's disregard of the safety of those they supposedly love is just...astonishing

ETA: In happier news, we are experiencing zero holiday-related guilt b/c we typically don't spend holidays with family and haven't in years. With the exception of one relative (who we usually host for Christmas), they are all way too far-flung to see with any regularity.  And I'm sure as shit not flying anywhere right now, even if holiday visits were the norm.
That's the right word for it.  I'm absolutely astonished that your spouse would even consider risking your child's safety just for a get-together.  Do whatever you need to do to protect your children.

tygertygertyger

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #133 on: November 14, 2020, 02:26:46 PM »
My partner and I just turned down Thanksgiving events with both of our families. My family has been treating everything as overblown, but now 6 members of my extended family just tested positive, including my aunt in her 70s, so I don't think they'll be too much guilt. My mom lives alone so I do want to see her, but I will have quarantined in advance. She'll actually be more likely to transmit something to me rather than the reverse. 

pdxvandal

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #134 on: November 14, 2020, 09:16:29 PM »
I booked some Turkey week flights in September when cases seemed to be declining/flatlining. But the state I'm traveling to has turned into a $hitshow (major Trump-supporting state) for Covid, and my own state is going on a multi-week "timeout." So I canceled my flights and going to chill the rest of the year. It's just not worth it, although I think a short flight with masks and hanging with immediate family is not that risky. I booked with confidence that I could cancel with no change fees, which helped. Sucks, but I can wait 6-10 months until I'm vaccinated and the Covid dust settles.

Dollar Slice

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #135 on: November 14, 2020, 09:44:24 PM »
This website might come in handy for folks in the U.S. who are making decisions about holiday gatherings and/or trying to convince friends/family about holiday gatherings. It gives you the odds of a gathering of N size containing at least one person with COVID in whichever county you're gathering in, based on current testing results. Obviously not perfect as you might have people traveling from different counties, etc. but it's handy for a guesstimate. For example, where my parents live there's currently a 10% chance that someone will bring COVID to Thanksgiving with a 10-person group. But in some parts of the country a random 10-person group would be 80% likely to have someone with COVID at Thanksgiving. You could also extrapolate this to things like: what are the odds someone will have COVID on a plane with 200 people flying out of Chicago (basically 100%), etc.

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

spaghetti1awk

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #136 on: November 15, 2020, 06:25:49 AM »
We're planning on doing a zoom meeting between the different branches of the family during our thanksgiving dinners in different places.  :P

This is what my family is planning as well, zoom Thanksgiving late lunch, late dinner, and day after breakfast across three time zones simultaneously. I'm actually looking forward to it more than a bunch of travel. Thankful that my siblings are on board with curtailing in person celebrations for now.

Arbitrage

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #137 on: November 15, 2020, 08:32:18 AM »
Finally returned home for good after 3 weeks of travel for work.  Got my (first ever) COVID test yesterday.  It'll probably determine whether or not we can hold a Thanksgiving celebration with grandma.  That will be the max size of any gathering for our family. 

DizzyDaisies

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #138 on: November 15, 2020, 10:00:59 AM »
What do you do when thereís disagreement within the household? My spouseís family is having a large, indoor Christmas gathering, complete with relatives flying in from out of state. We are in a high transmission state and they are coming from high transmission states. 7 total states will be represented at this gathering. Some of these relatives havenít visited for Christmas in over 10 years! Why did they decide that THIS year is a good year to come visit? There will be elderly people at this gathering and others in high risk groups (including one of my children). I am literally the only person out of these 35 people who thinks this is a bad idea. My spouse has no problem with this and the family thinks the virus is no worse than the flu/hyped by the media and will miraculously disappear after the election.

I donít know what to do. I can stay home but I donít know that I can force my spouse to leave our children home. I also know our children will be very upset to miss out on seeing their cousins who they rarely see. Is anyone else having disagreement within the household? How are you resolving it?

Yes, you can put your foot down and insist that your spouse not take your children and put them in danger. You can also insist that they quarantine elsewhere when they return for two weeks, and if they refuse that, you and the kids can quarantine elsewhere.

You handle it relative to how important it is to you. If the safety of your children is that high a priority, you make that big a deal about it.

If my DH insisted on going to a giant, indoor, unprotected family gathering in the US and insisted on coming straight home, you bet your ass I wouldn't be here when he got back.

Thank you all for the advice. I broached the topic again yesterday and said that I wanted to be able to discuss this without arguing. It went very well. He agreed to cancel Thanksgiving (we are supposed to host his family). My family isnít gathering for holidays this year. He agrees the huge Christmas gathering is a bad idea but feels very conflicted because he hasnít seen his brother in many years. Then he spoke to his mother and she said she is nervous about this Christmas gathering. I texted his cousin who feels the same way and is likely backing out of Christmas. It seems I just needed to be the first to speak up and then others expressed their same concerns. He is going to talk to his brother and tell him that this is not a good year to come visit and that their elderly mom (whose house they would be staying in) is concerned as well. Weíll see how it goes from there.

DizzyDaisies

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #139 on: November 15, 2020, 10:03:20 AM »
This website might come in handy for folks in the U.S. who are making decisions about holiday gatherings and/or trying to convince friends/family about holiday gatherings. It gives you the odds of a gathering of N size containing at least one person with COVID in whichever county you're gathering in, based on current testing results. Obviously not perfect as you might have people traveling from different counties, etc. but it's handy for a guesstimate. For example, where my parents live there's currently a 10% chance that someone will bring COVID to Thanksgiving with a 10-person group. But in some parts of the country a random 10-person group would be 80% likely to have someone with COVID at Thanksgiving. You could also extrapolate this to things like: what are the odds someone will have COVID on a plane with 200 people flying out of Chicago (basically 100%), etc.

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

Wow! Thank you for sharing this! This map is equal parts helpful and alarming.

Peony2019

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #140 on: November 15, 2020, 10:43:36 AM »
My younger sister and I are planning on cooking up a storm in our respective kitchens, meeting on our older sisterís (her husband was just diagnosed with a brain tumor) porch and outside our 92 year old momís door (she lives in a senior apartment complex where someone was just quarantined with Covid) with a diabetic Thanksgiving feast! We of course will wear masks delivering the food to their porches/doors and will go to our respective cars and have a group phone call about what we are thankful for!

Weíve discussed our plans and all involved are excited about the fun. We are including some fun gifts to pack leftovers into additional meals, with some Thanksgiving hand towels, hand soaps and Bath and Bodyworks smelly hand sanitizers.

We love our family too much to bring something negative into their already difficult lives. I hope our plans can inspire others on this blog.

This is exactly what my sibling and I plan on doing.  Both my parents are very high risk and due to our jobs, sibling and I can't isolate perfectly.  Neither of us are willing to put our beloved parents in harms way.  Fortunately they are both fully onboard and want to share in the 'potluck' experience by cooking a special side for us to take home when we drop off our goody boxes (outdoors and masked). 

Family and Farming:  You have inspired me to up my 'goody box' game.  I had planned on including some homemade potpourri in my goody box but love the idea of also adding some fall scented hand soaps and lotions as well.

andreamac

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #141 on: November 15, 2020, 05:01:56 PM »
Im Canadian and we have our thanksgiving in october. Numbers spiked and we are now dealing with it. We stayed home and did an outside visit with a few people. Christmas is cancelled with my family and we may yry to take kids sliding and hot chocolate outside if we are lucky and numbers remain okay. My heart goes out to the US right now and there rising numbers.

K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #142 on: November 15, 2020, 06:10:48 PM »
As we get closer to the holidays, I feel myself experiencing not only guilt, but also grief. I feel guilty because I know my siblings plan to gather and don't understand why I won't, but I can manage that. It's my MIL I feel badly about. She's 75, and she misses us. We miss her too. Thanksgiving isn't so bad -- we've opted out before, including last year, I think. But Christmas is another story -- we've never spent Christmas away from family (meaning we've seen both sides of the family every year for 30+ years now). We'd like to do testing and quarantine ourselves 14 days to make it safe, but we can't when our boys work outside the home in an essential business (which has had more than one Covid scare and we're waiting again to see if widespread testing is going to be required next week). And my worry is that the huge spike will only continue to rise after the Thanksgiving gatherings people will have, making Christmas even riskier.

So I feel guilt for saying no when people want to gather, but also grief at the situation because not being able gather will be sad.

ender

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #143 on: November 15, 2020, 07:52:37 PM »
I feel a lot better about not doing Thanksgiving/Christmas. I have extended family who aren't doing anything remotely resembling social distancing and also are in the "whatever, just get it over with" category.

But... I'm lying if I am not bummed about missing the holidays.

Arbitrage

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #144 on: November 16, 2020, 10:21:55 AM »
Our friends whom we often spend Thanksgiving with again asking if we want to join them - they had sensed that we were uncomfortable with the fact that they were having out-of-town relatives fly in (which we were), but that trip finally was canceled.  Not due to common sense, mind you, but because one of the relatives received a positive COVID test. 

We still aren't going to do it, though.  It's going to be a gathering of 4-5 households, even if all are local.  I'd like to think that Christmas will be better, but basically am assuming it won't. 

pachnik

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #145 on: November 16, 2020, 11:12:05 AM »
I feel a lot better about not doing Thanksgiving/Christmas. I have extended family who aren't doing anything remotely resembling social distancing and also are in the "whatever, just get it over with" category.

But... I'm lying if I am not bummed about missing the holidays.

I'm bummed out too.  On Christmas Eve we go to my husband's extended family.  There are maybe 30 or so people - lots of kids running around, Santa makes an appearance, a Scandinavian smorgasbord.  Not this year.  Nope. 

kay02

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #146 on: November 16, 2020, 02:29:53 PM »
I'm doing Thanksgiving with just my roommates.  It should be nice.

I haven't gotten any grief yet from family, but we haven't even talked about Christmas.

K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #147 on: November 17, 2020, 05:54:52 PM »
I feel a lot better about not doing Thanksgiving/Christmas. I have extended family who aren't doing anything remotely resembling social distancing and also are in the "whatever, just get it over with" category.

But... I'm lying if I am not bummed about missing the holidays.

I'm bummed out too.  On Christmas Eve we go to my husband's extended family.  There are maybe 30 or so people - lots of kids running around, Santa makes an appearance, a Scandinavian smorgasbord.  Not this year.  Nope.

We're bummed too -- eldest kid today said Christmas is going to be weird, and he's right.  We won't get to see family.  We won't get to celebrate Advent in our church, or the majesty and joy of the Christmas Eve Vigil service followed by desserts and drinks in the great hall, gleefully wishing everyone Merry Christmas, and getting home well after midnight.  DH and I won't be at church again early on Christmas morning to do the readings and prayers, something we volunteer for because we live close by, making it easier for us than many others.  No Christmas Eve brunch with one side of the family, or Christmas dinner with the other.  The boys won't get to play their newest video games with their favorite uncle.  No Christmas Day bike ride with friends celebrating the one with a Christmas Day birthday.  And then the 12 days of Christmas will also be quiet -- no driving to visit other family members, no carol service, no caroling parties, no walking through the fancy decorated neighborhoods with friends.

Our tradition is to put up our tree and decorate the house no earlier than December 22nd (usually as close to Christmas Eve as we can push it) and to leave it up until the weekend after Epiphany.  Eldest today suggested we put up the tree the weekend after Thanksgiving and just enjoy it.  I'm conflicted, because I love Advent and the quiet waiting.  But I understand how this year is different, and if the tree will make them happy, I guess we'll do it early.

Dollar Slice

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #148 on: November 17, 2020, 06:25:51 PM »
No Christmas Eve brunch with one side of the family, or Christmas dinner with the other.  The boys won't get to play their newest video games with their favorite uncle.  No Christmas Day bike ride with friends celebrating the one with a Christmas Day birthday.  And then the 12 days of Christmas will also be quiet -- no driving to visit other family members, no carol service, no caroling parties, no walking through the fancy decorated neighborhoods with friends.

Maybe you could come up with some worthwhile charitable projects to involve the family in. Many people are going to live through a truly tragic holiday season this year in one way or another - people losing family members, healthcare workers having to work endless overtime in hospitals, people losing their jobs, etc. etc. There is no better time to teach your kids how good it can make them feel to alleviate the suffering of people in need, and I'm sure you can find some good ways to tie that in with the teachings of Jesus and the holiday of Christmas.

dignam

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Re: COVID-19: Holiday Guilt Edition
« Reply #149 on: November 18, 2020, 06:13:18 AM »
Looks like we are going to skip Thanksgiving dinner (was just going to be with a couple members of my immediate family).  Our county just enacted and emergency order prohibiting indoor gatherings with people you don't live with.  How they would enforce that, I'm not sure, but that's besides the point.

Should be fine though, T day with just the GF and dog will be pretty chill.