Countries with the cheapest healthcare costs?

[Marvel2017]

Looking for some "verified" (not just I've heard) first person knowledge of countries where the healthcare is very reasonably priced. Where basically I could "self-insure" with confidence while living there. Relative the the U.S. Dollar if exchange rate plays into it. Thank you!

[Roland of Gilead]

Do you care about heroic effort things to prolong your life like cutting edge cancer treatments using CAR-T cells or things like that?

If so, I think you have to stick to first world countries and I will be interested to hear about the costs.

[Marvel2017]

No, if any of my family gets cancer then we'll reassess and move somewhere appropriate for treatment I suppose. I'm just looking for general cardiac care, surgeries I may need in the future, appendectomy, gall bladder, just general things like that. From what I'm reading, there are MANY other countries that have healthcare equivalent (or better) than the US at a fraction of the cost. Thanks.

[Linea_Norway]

In Norway we don't pay explicitely for healthcare insurance, just a small own share for each treatment/investigation, typically 15-40 dollars. The rest is included in the way that we pay a high amount of income tax, wealth tax and VAT. Dentist and glasses are not covered.
Medicines are covered 67% to a certain sum and 100% if over that, if you have something cronical that is covered.

Edit: I should add that many companies buy an extra health insurance for their employees. This gives you faster treatment in private clinics. Some public clinics have waiting lists for 48 weeks to be investigated and another 48 weeks for treatment. But to have such an insurance privately is quite expensive, about 1000 USD a year.

[Marvel2017]

I'm speaking from a perspective of someone who would be retiring to the country (or just there on a visitor visa), not working or paying into the nationalized healthcare program. I may have a global traveler insurance policy or similar, but basically assume I'm uninsured. So paying out of pocket for any dr visits or procedures. So I'm thinking most European/Scandinavian countries don't make the list just from a cost of living perspective. From what I've seen, what I'm looking for is either in Asia or Central/South America in "lesser developed" countries but just wanted to get some confirmation/first person actual experience/facts. Thanks.

[CanuckExpat]

What do you consider affordable, what services would be typical, and would you be augmenting with private insurance of some kind?
If you are looking at Canada, you can pay cash and get services as a non-resident, I think you are still supposed to get the benefit of the government negotiated cost controls (may depend on province, and particular provider)

Paying cash for a doctors office visit seems like it would cost on the order of 70 CAD ($52 USD). If you are relatively healthy, paying for a few doctors visits seems better than US health insurance premiums + out of pocket costs.

Here is a list of some hospital charges (Does not include physician fees, I don't know how to find those). It looks like you would have to have some kind of catastrophic health insurance coverage (traveller's insurance if you are a non resident?) to cover the possibility of a multi day hospital stay, but otherwise things look decent (at least compared to US prices...)

[MaaS]

In Norway we don't pay explicitely for healthcare insurance, just a small own share for each treatment/investigation, typically 15-40 dollars. The rest is included in the way that we pay a high amount of income tax, wealth tax and VAT. Dentist and glasses are not covered.
Medicines are covered 67% to a certain sum and 100% if over that, if you have something cronical that is covered.

Edit: I should add that many companies buy an extra health insurance for their employees. This gives you faster treatment in private clinics. Some public clinics have waiting lists for 48 weeks to be investigated and another 48 weeks for treatment. But to have such an insurance privately is quite expensive, about 1000 USD a year.

Perhaps it just shows how out of whack costs are in the US, but I did a double take here because 1000 USD sounds dirt cheap to me.

[deborah]

A lot of developing countries have really good health care available, which gets such countries lots of medical tourism - for example Thailand.

However, I have real problems with the people who take advantage of this. On the one hand they are saying that they want to be citizens of their own country - that they agree with their country's policies. On the other hand they want to take advantage of the citizens of another country and its policies to get cheaper health care, and cheaper living expenses. Are they REALLY FIRE if they need to go overseas for their health care?

[expatartist]

I've previously lived in Thailand and Malaysia, both common destinations for medical tourism. And I still return to Thailand about once/year for:
* A holiday, usually around Christmas/Western New Years
* Buying a year's worth of handmade paper for art projects
* Thorough annual check-up including mammogram, sonograms and various blood tests (not that I need them all, but keeping an eye on things a baseline) for US$300, much cheaper than most of those services where I live
* Dental work if necessary, at a fraction of what it'd cost where I live

If you can combine reasons to go to a place, it can be worthwhile. But urgent/long-term care is a different matter. The retirement visa in Thailand doesn't require a huge deposit and COL is quite low compared to Malaysia, but when going through the trauma of an illness, relocation and/or long-haul flights can take a toll.

[nereo]

What do you consider affordable, what services would be typical, and would you be augmenting with private insurance of some kind?
If you are looking at Canada, you can pay cash and get services as a non-resident, I think you are still supposed to get the benefit of the government negotiated cost controls (may depend on province, and particular provider)

Paying cash for a doctors office visit seems like it would cost on the order of 70 CAD ($52 USD). If you are relatively healthy, paying for a few doctors visits seems better than US health insurance premiums + out of pocket costs.

Here is a list of some hospital charges (Does not include physician fees, I don't know how to find those). It looks like you would have to have some kind of catastrophic health insurance coverage (traveller's insurance if you are a non resident?) to cover the possibility of a multi day hospital stay, but otherwise things look decent (at least compared to US prices...)

I'll add to this:
When we first arrived in Canada we weren't yet eligible for the provincial health insurance (each province maintains their own insurance and standards).  We purchased private healthcare and I believe it cost us ~$160/mo CAD (each). Coverage was something like 80% of costs and each doctors visit I wound up paying $80-100 out of pocket. It included a basic dental plan which covered an annual cleaning plus reductions for simple fillings. The one thing we did not get (but is available) was prescription drug coverage - some provences don't provide for prescription drugs.
It was considerably cheaper for us than paying for private insurance in the US.
I should note that the entire approach and attitude towards healthcare is different in Canada - some ways I'd say for the better, some for the worse - YMMV.

If you have assets and live in Canada for several years you can apply for permenant residence, which (Provence specific) can give you access to the same health insurance plan that other citizens have, paid for through tax revenue.

[jjandjab]

A lot of developing countries have really good health care available, which gets such countries lots of medical tourism - for example Thailand.

However, I have real problems with the people who take advantage of this. On the one hand they are saying that they want to be citizens of their own country - that they agree with their country's policies. On the other hand they want to take advantage of the citizens of another country and its policies to get cheaper health care, and cheaper living expenses. Are they REALLY FIRE if they need to go overseas for their health care?

But the US policy towards medicine is that it is commodity to be bought and sold - albeit one with obscure/ridiculous pricing showing no rhyme or reason (I am a physician and it drive me bonkers - I wish we were single payer and more fairly distributed with basic care for all.) We also allow people from around the world to come and partake - albeit they clearly need to be wealthy... And other countries are also choosing to sell their services at what they consider a fair price. So I'm not sure how this is "taking advantage" of another country and their policies. It is just using the various markets to make a choice. To me it is no different, from an economic standpoint, than going to visit somewhere because their hotels and food are cheaper.

Now whether you consider healthcare to be a commodity or a citizens right as part of the well-bring of the country, that's a different discussion that always gets co-mingled with the economics of medicine.

If you were somehow gaming the system to get free healthcare without becoming a citizen or permanent resident and paying taxes, that would be objectionable in my mind.

[former player]

What is available to locals and what is available to expats differs greatly almost everywhere.

Please don't assume that if some medical emergency comes along that isn't covered by the country you are in 1) you and your family will be fit enough, emotionally ready enough and financially able to move back to the USA or 2) that having moved back the care you want at an affordable price will be available to you.

[Bicycle_B]

After research, a friend of mine is visiting the following two places, tentatively planning to move to one of them based on on-site experience:

Cuenca, Ecuador
Montevideo, Uruguay

Part of the attraction is low cost health care, especially in Cuenca's case.

Another friend recommends Panama, based on friends of his who live there.

[gaja]

If you look at cost and quality of healthcare alone, Cuba might make the list. But it might be challenging for other reasons, especially for a US citizen.

[backyardfeast]

My mom is a permanent resident of a small town in Mexico (we are Canadian).  Standard practice here in Canada is that you don't want to be out of the country for more than 6 months a year, because you will lose your provincial health benefits.  Mom, who is generally healthy and in her 60s, does have a chronic health condition.  I don't know tons of details of what she pays for services, but she finds the healthcare system in Mexico to be really excellent, even though she is in a rural area where some specialists only come up from the big cities once a month or whatever.

Generally, she doesn't come back to Canada fo health care, as she finds it easier to access and cheaper in Mexico, with no concerns about quality.  There a ton of Americans doing the same.  The majority of doctors and specialists she encounters were trained in the US or Canada anyway. :)

[havregryn]

I'm speaking from a perspective of someone who would be retiring to the country (or just there on a visitor visa), not working or paying into the nationalized healthcare program. I may have a global traveler insurance policy or similar, but basically assume I'm uninsured. So paying out of pocket for any dr visits or procedures. So I'm thinking most European/Scandinavian countries don't make the list just from a cost of living perspective. From what I've seen, what I'm looking for is either in Asia or Central/South America in "lesser developed" countries but just wanted to get some confirmation/first person actual experience/facts. Thanks.

I think for American standards even the most expensive Western European healthcare is kind of cheap.
We live in Luxembourg and I am not eligible to be in the national healthcare program so I pay what they charge as a private patient and then my employer reimburses me.
I paid a total of 3000-3500 € for an emergency 3- day hospitalization and diagnostic work-up after having a stroke at 31 and about 4500 for childbirth and 5 day stay in a private suite (and tbh this feels like such an overkill compared to the post-stroke treatment and it's probably waaay cheaper if you don't take the fancy accommodation). These numbers are what is here considered expensive. I don't have any first hand experience of the US but from what I hear we are talking completely different scales.

Eastern (post-communist) Europe has a good standard of healthcare when you can pay for it and their notion of expensive is even more benign than here. I am from Croatia and most of the people I know travel there to get medical stuff done. Someone I know had no insurance and had to pay 300€ for a short hospital stay in Croatia and they found it terribly expensive.

People are very used to not paying anything for healthcare around here so they really think of this in entirely different terms than the average American.

[Krolik]

Eastern (post-communist) Europe has a good standard of healthcare when you can pay for it and their notion of expensive is even more benign than here. I am from Croatia and most of the people I know travel there to get medical stuff done. Someone I know had no insurance and had to pay 300€ for a short hospital stay in Croatia and they found it terribly expensive.

People are very used to not paying anything for healthcare around here so they really think of this in entirely different terms than the average American.

This ^^^
I am from Poland and private clinics offer high quality of care and doctors are well educated and highly qualified. The cost of treatment by American standards is very low, however for locals it is very expensive if they were to pay full price.

[Bucksandreds]

My mom is a permanent resident of a small town in Mexico (we are Canadian).  Standard practice here in Canada is that you don't want to be out of the country for more than 6 months a year, because you will lose your provincial health benefits.  Mom, who is generally healthy and in her 60s, does have a chronic health condition.  I don't know tons of details of what she pays for services, but she finds the healthcare system in Mexico to be really excellent, even though she is in a rural area where some specialists only come up from the big cities once a month or whatever.

Generally, she doesn't come back to Canada fo health care, as she finds it easier to access and cheaper in Mexico, with no concerns about quality.  There a ton of Americans doing the same.  The majority of doctors and specialists she encounters were trained in the US or Canada anyway. :)

Not trying to be rude but highly doubt it. Income for doctors/dentists is too low in Mexico for someone to pay $200,000-$300,000 for an American education. Maybe some trained in Canada. Dental school in Mexico is a bachelors and costs almost nothing. Med school is a doctorate there but is still very cheap compared to US cost.

[CBnCO]

A lot of developing countries have really good health care available, which gets such countries lots of medical tourism - for example Thailand.

However, I have real problems with the people who take advantage of this. On the one hand they are saying that they want to be citizens of their own country - that they agree with their country's policies. On the other hand they want to take advantage of the citizens of another country and its policies to get cheaper health care, and cheaper living expenses. Are they REALLY FIRE if they need to go overseas for their health care?

So, just because I was born in the U.S. and am a citizen, I automatically consent with all the policies here? That's ludicrous, especially if one of the policies were that I could not exercise my supposed freedom to purchase the healthcare services I choose. The healthcare system in the U.S. is a mess from a cost perspective and mostly due to excessive government involvement. Thus, if the same services can be delivered elsewhere for less (taking into account all costs..travel, etc..), then I think every mustachian should be aware and keep this option in their quiver of tricks.

Kind of like the patriotic sound of "buy American made" but, virtually nobody does it because we are part of a global economy and there are other places in the world who have comparative advantage that allow them to produce certain goods and services cheaper. Flag waving is one thing, but when it comes to spending more money for the same thing Americans aren't so patriotic.

[CBnCO]

A lot of developing countries have really good health care available, which gets such countries lots of medical tourism - for example Thailand.

However, I have real problems with the people who take advantage of this. On the one hand they are saying that they want to be citizens of their own country - that they agree with their country's policies. On the other hand they want to take advantage of the citizens of another country and its policies to get cheaper health care, and cheaper living expenses. Are they REALLY FIRE if they need to go overseas for their health care?

But the US policy towards medicine is that it is commodity to be bought and sold - albeit one with obscure/ridiculous pricing showing no rhyme or reason (I am a physician and it drive me bonkers - I wish we were single payer and more fairly distributed with basic care for all.) We also allow people from around the world to come and partake - albeit they clearly need to be wealthy... And other countries are also choosing to sell their services at what they consider a fair price. So I'm not sure how this is "taking advantage" of another country and their policies. It is just using the various markets to make a choice. To me it is no different, from an economic standpoint, than going to visit somewhere because their hotels and food are cheaper.

Now whether you consider healthcare to be a commodity or a citizens right as part of the well-bring of the country, that's a different discussion that always gets co-mingled with the economics of medicine.

If you were somehow gaming the system to get free healthcare without becoming a citizen or permanent resident and paying taxes, that would be objectionable in my mind.

I think it's quite interesting for a physician to prefer a single payer system. The MMM way tends to attract those who take responsibility for themselves and are willing to swim against the current to do it. Any single payer system will always involve healthy people and those with money to pay for the unhealthy and poor. And, the way I see most Americans eating, drinking, and treating their bodies, I don't see it as exactly fair that I would be forced to pay for their care. Further, since I would have to support others in this manner, I wonder how much of your income you'd be willing to give up for the good of the society? Would you still be a physician if it paid $35K or $40K per year? One of the arguments you present would suggest that society has a right to your labor versus having to purchase it as a good or service (commodity)?

Perhaps we should study how some of these other countries are able to provide cheaper care and incorporate some more of it into our system. I'm a big fan of the direct primary care model where third parties are cut out entirely, patients have a direct consumer relationship with their physician and the physicians claim they can make the same money by seeing 1/4 of the patients than they do now

[firelight]

My mom is a permanent resident of a small town in Mexico (we are Canadian).  Standard practice here in Canada is that you don't want to be out of the country for more than 6 months a year, because you will lose your provincial health benefits.  Mom, who is generally healthy and in her 60s, does have a chronic health condition.  I don't know tons of details of what she pays for services, but she finds the healthcare system in Mexico to be really excellent, even though she is in a rural area where some specialists only come up from the big cities once a month or whatever.

Generally, she doesn't come back to Canada fo health care, as she finds it easier to access and cheaper in Mexico, with no concerns about quality.  There a ton of Americans doing the same.  The majority of doctors and specialists she encounters were trained in the US or Canada anyway. :)

Not trying to be rude but highly doubt it. Income for doctors/dentists is too low in Mexico for someone to pay $200,000-$300,000 for an American education. Maybe some trained in Canada. Dental school in Mexico is a bachelors and costs almost nothing. Med school is a doctorate there but is still very cheap compared to US cost.

There are loads of doctors that come to US for higher education/training and go back to their countries. We met an ENT specialist in Cambodia (of all freaking places!) who was trained in NY and went back there. And the level of care was excellent. We were really skeptical and ready to airlift my husband to Singapore for care but after seeing the credentials of the doctors there, I was super satisfied. Also the amount charged ($40 without insurance vs the $300+ that would've cost after insurance in US) made my wallet super satisfied too.

I'm not sure how the loan repayments work or how they manage the high cost of American medical education but there are doctors that do it. I'm not surprised that there are doctors in Mexico that are trained in US.

[deborah]

CBnCo,

As a citizen of a country with a much less expensive health system than the US - see https://www.vox.com/a/health-prices for instance - with a population with similar levels of obesity, and where the doctors earn similar amounts to what they do in the US, I think you need to look around the world and see that other countries actually do things better, and how and why.

As a citizen of your country, you can work towards better health care in your own country.

The US government isn't excessively involved in its health care, from what I can see as an outsider. Rather, it appears to have too many people who equate freedom with different things than I equate freedom with, and too much politically motivated spending. For instance (since you have invoked the "free" argument), I cannot call a country with 5% of the world population having 20% of the known world incarcerations "free".

[joonifloofeefloo]

I agree with jjandjab re: services charged according to location. If a doctor pays less for land, housing, office, groceries, etc, in Thailand than she would in BC, it makes sense that she can also get by on a lower income there. So, like with any service, billing can be adjusted for local cost of living, and any of us might take that opportunity, just as we do with many other aspects of our budgets.

In Canada, there are not currently enough doctors to go around, so lots of us save up for private (here or elsewhere). That opens timeslots for people who don't have the health to travel to an appointment, or who cannot pay for one, so I see access of doctors elsewhere as beneficial to more than just the traveler.

[CBnCO]

CBnCo,

As a citizen of a country with a much less expensive health system than the US - see https://www.vox.com/a/health-prices for instance - with a population with similar levels of obesity, and where the doctors earn similar amounts to what they do in the US, I think you need to look around the world and see that other countries actually do things better, and how and why.

As a citizen of your country, you can work towards better health care in your own country.

The US government isn't excessively involved in its health care, from what I can see as an outsider. Rather, it appears to have too many people who equate freedom with different things than I equate freedom with, and too much politically motivated spending. For instance (since you have invoked the "free" argument), I cannot call a country with 5% of the world population having 20% of the known world incarcerations "free".

Deborah,

Just so we are on the same page:

Free = "exempt from external authority, interference, restriction, etc., as a person or one's will, thought, choice, action, etc.; independent; unrestricted"

That said, we agree on several points. We should look at other countries, several mentioned in this thread, where a consumer can purchase like healthcare services for much less. And, it's an absolute disgrace that the U.S. government, with the full support of the prison unions and contractors, has incarcerated millions of marijuana users and merchants. I don't consider the U.S. to be quite a free as the "free country" tag line might allude to.

As for healthcare, our governments restrict who and how many can practice medicine here (controlling supply). The government restricts what insurance companies can sell, where they can sell it, and how much they can sell it for. The government, under threat of penalty, mandates citizens buy one of the aforementioned insurance policies. The government then run's it's own programs, Medicare, Medicaid, VA, etc., and we all know how efficient and streamlined government agencies tend to be. Sure, your absolutely free to spend all your money, eat Doritos, and drink beer all day, as you should be; but, others who take care to save and have healthy habits (MMM) are forced to pay for the irresponsible.

Lastly, I do agree we should all work for better health in our countries. We should start with good diet and exercise and by recognize that the health care "system" in the U.S. is not an open and free market at all and is wrought with government protections and regulations that are mostly there to benefit the insurance, pharma, and hospital industries.

Freedom is a universal concept and there are no country lines when viewing the Earth from space...