Author Topic: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?  (Read 92345 times)

Anette

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #450 on: March 26, 2020, 08:11:23 AM »
You could of course  turn this around and ask as well:
How are the hysterical people expecting the contrarians to let crippling anxiety take over their lives? And what is it supposed to be good for?
I will not call myself a contrarian, I am a nurse and working but I can't help being thought of by people on the forum as a contrarian because my opinion differs?

I am not even going to comment on twisting pea words to mean some of us are indifferent to people dying.

I think this was meant towards my comment and I'm not sure if you understood correctly.

What I meant to say there was that even if we didn't take any measures, the economy would suffer badly from this (see the examples about airlines/travel, schools, and events). We don't know how much though. Assuming that the pancemic would be worse if no measures were taken at all - for which I admittedly have no proof as most countries have taken measures - I would expect economic activity to drop as well as people will get more and more afraid to get infected, esp once hospitals would be unable to take up any more patients.

It is impossible to guess how much of an effect that would have on the economy ofcourse, as it would largely depend on individual human behavior which is harder to model than nationwide restrictions. Nobody knows how much economic activity would reduce when nothing is done.

So what I mean to say is that, if no measures are taken, the economy will still take a hit, we just don't know how big. It may even be (almost) as bad as the hit it's taken now, as the pandemic would be worse and go on much longer.

Than you for elaboration on the meaning of your sentence.

To your finishing line:
I understand that the pandemic would be much worse but possibly shorter if nobody took safety precautions.
In Europe ( I should say England, France and Germany that's all I know for certain) it has been explained many times that we are trying to slow down the pandemic by doing the measures that have been put in place so that the health care system doesn't get overwhelmed as it would in the other scenario

runbikerun

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #451 on: March 26, 2020, 08:14:45 AM »
Well, as I stated in the contrarian thread, there seems to be at least a third option of quarantine for the elderly and vulnerable and school, University and work for the others. It has been carefully discussed in the German Bundestag yesterday as virologists have advised to do this.
There is a problem of treating the population unequally when doing this so alone for that reason it may not happen but it is discussed as a solution to the problem and it will be interesting to see what is decided.

I've been trying to find details of this debate, but there's no mention of such a discussion in Deutsche Welle's summary of the Bundestag's session, and I cannot find the name of any virologists recommending this specific approach.

Anette

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #452 on: March 26, 2020, 08:19:26 AM »
Well, as I stated in the contrarian thread, there seems to be at least a third option of quarantine for the elderly and vulnerable and school, University and work for the others. It has been carefully discussed in the German Bundestag yesterday as virologists have advised to do this.
There is a problem of treating the population unequally when doing this so alone for that reason it may not happen but it is discussed as a solution to the problem and it will be interesting to see what is decided.

I've been trying to find details of this debate, but there's no mention of such a discussion in Deutsche Welle's summary of the Bundestag's session, and I cannot find the name of any virologists recommending this specific approach.

It wasn't Deutsche Welle but " Die Welt".
It is in German and I am no good at working computers. I will try to get the link in here and hope it works.

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article206803393/Restriktionen-wegen-Corona-Die-gezielte-Ungleichbehandlung-bahnt-sich-an.html?wtmc=socialmedia.whatsapp.shared.web

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #453 on: March 26, 2020, 09:01:00 AM »
My son, a LEO, called me two days ago to tell me to pack a bug out bag.  I said as long as the grocery stores are open, we'll be fine.  At least until the hospitals start turning sick people away.

News today - the Metro Detroit hospitals are almost to capacity.  Boy, that was fast.
“Bug out” to where?

Small tourist towns in the NC mtns are having problems with people from NY & other hot zones fleeing to vacation cabins and delivering CONVID-19 to the rural areas.  I've heard of at least one county banning short-term rentals to protect the local population from the virus.  I can understand and sympathize with both sides.
Same where I am.  I get it, the weather is lovely, the scenery is lovely, but the car parks are closed for a reason: please don't drive down here to have your kids play on the beach.  Stay the fuck home.

As long as you isolate yourself/your children from any locals it makes no difference, does it? If it's really an isolated beach then there should be little risk of spread.

I've been doing road trips this week - there's no traffic and no one going anywhere. It's been enjoyable and liberating to be able to drive twisty roads which normally are clogged up at all times of day. It's just me and a +1 going there so I don't see how it changes anyone's risk of infection compared to the two of us at home all day.

ixtap

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #454 on: March 26, 2020, 09:35:50 AM »
You could of course  turn this around and ask as well:
How are the hysterical people expecting the contrarians to let crippling anxiety take over their lives? And what is it supposed to be good for?

You could ask that, but it would be a stupid thing to ask.

This is a straight choice between two options, both of which are really shitty:

1. Lock down hard and fast, and the economy takes a colossal hit. After several weeks, when new cases have slowed to a trickle, start gradually reopening society. Bring in a substantial surveillance apparatus using as much technology as possible to track and stamp down any new outbreaks as time goes on. In perhaps 18 months, mandatory vaccination for everyone who isn't immunocompromised, with absolutely zero tolerance for antivaxxers or religious exemptions. Don't like the vaccine? Fuck you, you're getting it.

2. Don't lock down, expect society to run as usual. The economy still takes a colossal hit, as anyone who can stay home will stay home, and hospitals become flooded with cases. With inadequate beds, medical personnel and equipment, people start dying in huge numbers. The economy goes down the toilet even faster. States start running out of coffins and storing corpses in industrial freezers. The medical system is reduced to rubble in a matter of months, as thousands of experienced professionals die or break down mentally. Six months later, society faces a totalled economy, a mountain of corpses, a thoroughly wrecked healthcare system and the worst death toll in centuries.

This is not a choice between the economy and the elderly, because there is no option that doesn't fuck the economy. Whatever we do, we're in for the worst depression since at least the 1930s, and quite possibly the worst since the Black Death. The only choice we get is roughly how many people die while the crash happens.
eating

Well, as I stated in the contrarian thread, there seems to be at least a third option of quarantine for the elderly and vulnerable and school, University and work for the others. It has been carefully discussed in the German Bundestag yesterday as virologists have advised to do this.
There is a problem of treating the population unequally when doing this so alone for that reason it may not happen but it is discussed as a solution to the problem and it will be interesting to see what is decided.

That option also involves extensive testing from the get go. We failed at that option already.

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #455 on: March 26, 2020, 09:46:37 AM »
My son, a LEO, called me two days ago to tell me to pack a bug out bag.  I said as long as the grocery stores are open, we'll be fine.  At least until the hospitals start turning sick people away.

News today - the Metro Detroit hospitals are almost to capacity.  Boy, that was fast.
“Bug out” to where?

Small tourist towns in the NC mtns are having problems with people from NY & other hot zones fleeing to vacation cabins and delivering CONVID-19 to the rural areas.  I've heard of at least one county banning short-term rentals to protect the local population from the virus.  I can understand and sympathize with both sides.
Same where I am.  I get it, the weather is lovely, the scenery is lovely, but the car parks are closed for a reason: please don't drive down here to have your kids play on the beach.  Stay the fuck home.

As long as you isolate yourself/your children from any locals it makes no difference, does it? If it's really an isolated beach then there should be little risk of spread.

I've been doing road trips this week - there's no traffic and no one going anywhere. It's been enjoyable and liberating to be able to drive twisty roads which normally are clogged up at all times of day. It's just me and a +1 going there so I don't see how it changes anyone's risk of infection compared to the two of us at home all day.

Yeah, individually there's no problem doing that.  The problems happen when everyone has the same idea of heading out to the beach.  And if there's one family on the beach, then it's very likely that another family will see that idea and come out.  And then another.  And another.  And at some very rapidly approaching point, the beach is packed and everyone has caught the disease.

mm1970

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #456 on: March 26, 2020, 10:17:13 AM »
My son, a LEO, called me two days ago to tell me to pack a bug out bag.  I said as long as the grocery stores are open, we'll be fine.  At least until the hospitals start turning sick people away.

News today - the Metro Detroit hospitals are almost to capacity.  Boy, that was fast.
“Bug out” to where?

Small tourist towns in the NC mtns are having problems with people from NY & other hot zones fleeing to vacation cabins and delivering CONVID-19 to the rural areas.  I've heard of at least one county banning short-term rentals to protect the local population from the virus.  I can understand and sympathize with both sides.
Same where I am.  I get it, the weather is lovely, the scenery is lovely, but the car parks are closed for a reason: please don't drive down here to have your kids play on the beach.  Stay the fuck home.

As long as you isolate yourself/your children from any locals it makes no difference, does it? If it's really an isolated beach then there should be little risk of spread.

I've been doing road trips this week - there's no traffic and no one going anywhere. It's been enjoyable and liberating to be able to drive twisty roads which normally are clogged up at all times of day. It's just me and a +1 going there so I don't see how it changes anyone's risk of infection compared to the two of us at home all day.
What happens when someone needs to use the bathroom?  Or when you need to stop at a gas station? 

Or like someone else already mentioned - if everyone else has the same idea?

I've seen plenty of isolated beach pics (because: we live near the beach), but also a lot of people going for hikes - when you literally cannot social distance if you have to pass someone going the other way.

Dancin'Dog

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #457 on: March 26, 2020, 10:26:54 AM »
My son, a LEO, called me two days ago to tell me to pack a bug out bag.  I said as long as the grocery stores are open, we'll be fine.  At least until the hospitals start turning sick people away.

News today - the Metro Detroit hospitals are almost to capacity.  Boy, that was fast.
“Bug out” to where?

Small tourist towns in the NC mtns are having problems with people from NY & other hot zones fleeing to vacation cabins and delivering CONVID-19 to the rural areas.  I've heard of at least one county banning short-term rentals to protect the local population from the virus.  I can understand and sympathize with both sides.
Same where I am.  I get it, the weather is lovely, the scenery is lovely, but the car parks are closed for a reason: please don't drive down here to have your kids play on the beach.  Stay the fuck home.

As long as you isolate yourself/your children from any locals it makes no difference, does it? If it's really an isolated beach then there should be little risk of spread.

I've been doing road trips this week - there's no traffic and no one going anywhere. It's been enjoyable and liberating to be able to drive twisty roads which normally are clogged up at all times of day. It's just me and a +1 going there so I don't see how it changes anyone's risk of infection compared to the two of us at home all day.




Day trips aren't the same as renting a cabin & moving in.  That will just deliver the virus to places that wouldn't have gotten it so soon.  Small towns have few Dr.'s and small hospitals, that normally only handle more basic medical needs.

Hirondelle

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #458 on: March 26, 2020, 10:35:44 AM »
My son, a LEO, called me two days ago to tell me to pack a bug out bag.  I said as long as the grocery stores are open, we'll be fine.  At least until the hospitals start turning sick people away.

News today - the Metro Detroit hospitals are almost to capacity.  Boy, that was fast.
“Bug out” to where?

Small tourist towns in the NC mtns are having problems with people from NY & other hot zones fleeing to vacation cabins and delivering CONVID-19 to the rural areas.  I've heard of at least one county banning short-term rentals to protect the local population from the virus.  I can understand and sympathize with both sides.
Same where I am.  I get it, the weather is lovely, the scenery is lovely, but the car parks are closed for a reason: please don't drive down here to have your kids play on the beach.  Stay the fuck home.

As long as you isolate yourself/your children from any locals it makes no difference, does it? If it's really an isolated beach then there should be little risk of spread.

I've been doing road trips this week - there's no traffic and no one going anywhere. It's been enjoyable and liberating to be able to drive twisty roads which normally are clogged up at all times of day. It's just me and a +1 going there so I don't see how it changes anyone's risk of infection compared to the two of us at home all day.

Yeah, individually there's no problem doing that.  The problems happen when everyone has the same idea of heading out to the beach.  And if there's one family on the beach, then it's very likely that another family will see that idea and come out.  And then another.  And another.  And at some very rapidly approaching point, the beach is packed and everyone has caught the disease.

This is exactly what happened in my country last weekend. Half the country decided to go to the beach and the national parks, resulting in packed beaches and national parks. Then the majors of those beach towns decided to shut down the parking lots and tell people to not come.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #459 on: March 26, 2020, 10:43:17 AM »
You've only got to look at the global toilet paper weirdness to see how one person's bizarre idea causes everyone to behave the same way. We really are sheeple.

Boofinator

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #460 on: March 26, 2020, 10:46:18 AM »
You could of course  turn this around and ask as well:
How are the hysterical people expecting the contrarians to let crippling anxiety take over their lives? And what is it supposed to be good for?

You could ask that, but it would be a stupid thing to ask.

This is a straight choice between two options, both of which are really shitty:

1. Lock down hard and fast, and the economy takes a colossal hit. After several weeks, when new cases have slowed to a trickle, start gradually reopening society. Bring in a substantial surveillance apparatus using as much technology as possible to track and stamp down any new outbreaks as time goes on. In perhaps 18 months, mandatory vaccination for everyone who isn't immunocompromised, with absolutely zero tolerance for antivaxxers or religious exemptions. Don't like the vaccine? Fuck you, you're getting it.

2. Don't lock down, expect society to run as usual. The economy still takes a colossal hit, as anyone who can stay home will stay home, and hospitals become flooded with cases. With inadequate beds, medical personnel and equipment, people start dying in huge numbers. The economy goes down the toilet even faster. States start running out of coffins and storing corpses in industrial freezers. The medical system is reduced to rubble in a matter of months, as thousands of experienced professionals die or break down mentally. Six months later, society faces a totalled economy, a mountain of corpses, a thoroughly wrecked healthcare system and the worst death toll in centuries.

This is not a choice between the economy and the elderly, because there is no option that doesn't fuck the economy. Whatever we do, we're in for the worst depression since at least the 1930s, and quite possibly the worst since the Black Death. The only choice we get is roughly how many people die while the crash happens.

I'm all for taking this thing seriously, but no need to blow things completely out of proportion (which gives the contrarians the upper hand in the debate). By all appearances, COVID-19 certainly is not worse than the 1918 flu pandemic, and no depression followed from it. This virus will pass, a lot of (mostly older) people will die, and life will march on. The only thing that would trigger the worst depression since the Black Death is an irrational response to the facts at hand (either from the general public, or from our elected leaders).

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #461 on: March 26, 2020, 10:53:25 AM »
You could of course  turn this around and ask as well:
How are the hysterical people expecting the contrarians to let crippling anxiety take over their lives? And what is it supposed to be good for?

You could ask that, but it would be a stupid thing to ask.

This is a straight choice between two options, both of which are really shitty:

1. Lock down hard and fast, and the economy takes a colossal hit. After several weeks, when new cases have slowed to a trickle, start gradually reopening society. Bring in a substantial surveillance apparatus using as much technology as possible to track and stamp down any new outbreaks as time goes on. In perhaps 18 months, mandatory vaccination for everyone who isn't immunocompromised, with absolutely zero tolerance for antivaxxers or religious exemptions. Don't like the vaccine? Fuck you, you're getting it.

2. Don't lock down, expect society to run as usual. The economy still takes a colossal hit, as anyone who can stay home will stay home, and hospitals become flooded with cases. With inadequate beds, medical personnel and equipment, people start dying in huge numbers. The economy goes down the toilet even faster. States start running out of coffins and storing corpses in industrial freezers. The medical system is reduced to rubble in a matter of months, as thousands of experienced professionals die or break down mentally. Six months later, society faces a totalled economy, a mountain of corpses, a thoroughly wrecked healthcare system and the worst death toll in centuries.

This is not a choice between the economy and the elderly, because there is no option that doesn't fuck the economy. Whatever we do, we're in for the worst depression since at least the 1930s, and quite possibly the worst since the Black Death. The only choice we get is roughly how many people die while the crash happens.

I'm all for taking this thing seriously, but no need to blow things completely out of proportion (which gives the contrarians the upper hand in the debate). By all appearances, COVID-19 certainly is not worse than the 1918 flu pandemic, and no depression followed from it. This virus will pass, a lot of (mostly older) people will die, and life will march on. The only thing that would trigger the worst depression since the Black Death is an irrational response to the facts at hand (either from the general public, or from our elected leaders).


Totally incorrect. Whole cities in the USA alone lost ALL their workforce because everyone was sick. There were massive labour shortages. The only reason you don't hear more about the flu pandemic depression is because it was in 1918. You know, right around the time of the war. Bit hard to put a number on it.....

DaMa

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #462 on: March 26, 2020, 11:03:37 AM »
My son, a LEO, called me two days ago to tell me to pack a bug out bag.  I said as long as the grocery stores are open, we'll be fine.  At least until the hospitals start turning sick people away.

News today - the Metro Detroit hospitals are almost to capacity.  Boy, that was fast.

It's not about escaping the virus.  He wants me to come to his house where I would have far more exposure to the virus that I do now, because he is working 4 days a week.  He's concerned about civil unrest.  He lives further away from the city than I do.

I meant my post be tongue-in-cheek.  It's "incredibly stupid."  Until it isn't.
 

Boofinator

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #463 on: March 26, 2020, 11:18:21 AM »
You could of course  turn this around and ask as well:
How are the hysterical people expecting the contrarians to let crippling anxiety take over their lives? And what is it supposed to be good for?

You could ask that, but it would be a stupid thing to ask.

This is a straight choice between two options, both of which are really shitty:

1. Lock down hard and fast, and the economy takes a colossal hit. After several weeks, when new cases have slowed to a trickle, start gradually reopening society. Bring in a substantial surveillance apparatus using as much technology as possible to track and stamp down any new outbreaks as time goes on. In perhaps 18 months, mandatory vaccination for everyone who isn't immunocompromised, with absolutely zero tolerance for antivaxxers or religious exemptions. Don't like the vaccine? Fuck you, you're getting it.

2. Don't lock down, expect society to run as usual. The economy still takes a colossal hit, as anyone who can stay home will stay home, and hospitals become flooded with cases. With inadequate beds, medical personnel and equipment, people start dying in huge numbers. The economy goes down the toilet even faster. States start running out of coffins and storing corpses in industrial freezers. The medical system is reduced to rubble in a matter of months, as thousands of experienced professionals die or break down mentally. Six months later, society faces a totalled economy, a mountain of corpses, a thoroughly wrecked healthcare system and the worst death toll in centuries.

This is not a choice between the economy and the elderly, because there is no option that doesn't fuck the economy. Whatever we do, we're in for the worst depression since at least the 1930s, and quite possibly the worst since the Black Death. The only choice we get is roughly how many people die while the crash happens.

I'm all for taking this thing seriously, but no need to blow things completely out of proportion (which gives the contrarians the upper hand in the debate). By all appearances, COVID-19 certainly is not worse than the 1918 flu pandemic, and no depression followed from it. This virus will pass, a lot of (mostly older) people will die, and life will march on. The only thing that would trigger the worst depression since the Black Death is an irrational response to the facts at hand (either from the general public, or from our elected leaders).


Totally incorrect. Whole cities in the USA alone lost ALL their workforce because everyone was sick. There were massive labour shortages. The only reason you don't hear more about the flu pandemic depression is because it was in 1918. You know, right around the time of the war. Bit hard to put a number on it.....

I retract my statement that a depression didn't follow; apparently, U.S. GDP dropped 12% (10% being the cut-off). That being said, the flu was by all evidence much worse than coronavirus, especially since it attacked young people (the primary contributors to GDP) rather than older people.

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #464 on: March 26, 2020, 11:30:33 AM »
You could of course  turn this around and ask as well:
How are the hysterical people expecting the contrarians to let crippling anxiety take over their lives? And what is it supposed to be good for?

You could ask that, but it would be a stupid thing to ask.

This is a straight choice between two options, both of which are really shitty:

1. Lock down hard and fast, and the economy takes a colossal hit. After several weeks, when new cases have slowed to a trickle, start gradually reopening society. Bring in a substantial surveillance apparatus using as much technology as possible to track and stamp down any new outbreaks as time goes on. In perhaps 18 months, mandatory vaccination for everyone who isn't immunocompromised, with absolutely zero tolerance for antivaxxers or religious exemptions. Don't like the vaccine? Fuck you, you're getting it.

2. Don't lock down, expect society to run as usual. The economy still takes a colossal hit, as anyone who can stay home will stay home, and hospitals become flooded with cases. With inadequate beds, medical personnel and equipment, people start dying in huge numbers. The economy goes down the toilet even faster. States start running out of coffins and storing corpses in industrial freezers. The medical system is reduced to rubble in a matter of months, as thousands of experienced professionals die or break down mentally. Six months later, society faces a totalled economy, a mountain of corpses, a thoroughly wrecked healthcare system and the worst death toll in centuries.

This is not a choice between the economy and the elderly, because there is no option that doesn't fuck the economy. Whatever we do, we're in for the worst depression since at least the 1930s, and quite possibly the worst since the Black Death. The only choice we get is roughly how many people die while the crash happens.

I'm all for taking this thing seriously, but no need to blow things completely out of proportion (which gives the contrarians the upper hand in the debate). By all appearances, COVID-19 certainly is not worse than the 1918 flu pandemic, and no depression followed from it. This virus will pass, a lot of (mostly older) people will die, and life will march on. The only thing that would trigger the worst depression since the Black Death is an irrational response to the facts at hand (either from the general public, or from our elected leaders).


Totally incorrect. Whole cities in the USA alone lost ALL their workforce because everyone was sick. There were massive labour shortages. The only reason you don't hear more about the flu pandemic depression is because it was in 1918. You know, right around the time of the war. Bit hard to put a number on it.....

I retract my statement that a depression didn't follow; apparently, U.S. GDP dropped 12% (10% being the cut-off). That being said, the flu was by all evidence much worse than coronavirus, especially since it attacked young people (the primary contributors to GDP) rather than older people.

Actually, it attacked everyone. It killed a greater percentage of younger people because they were the ones travelling due to troop movements at the end of the war. They were the ones it got first, and they were the ones that brought it back to their home countries. They were also the ones at the tail end of rather a stressful situation, often poorly fed and maintained, with parasites and minor illnesses or wounded, and crowded into troop carriers/barracks and trains. It just wiped them out. They literally died like flies.

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #465 on: March 26, 2020, 11:39:29 AM »
My son, a LEO, called me two days ago to tell me to pack a bug out bag.  I said as long as the grocery stores are open, we'll be fine.  At least until the hospitals start turning sick people away.

News today - the Metro Detroit hospitals are almost to capacity.  Boy, that was fast.

It's not about escaping the virus.  He wants me to come to his house where I would have far more exposure to the virus that I do now, because he is working 4 days a week.  He's concerned about civil unrest.  He lives further away from the city than I do.

I meant my post be tongue-in-cheek.  It's "incredibly stupid."  Until it isn't.

If he’s working four days a week, and there’s civil unrest, he can’t save you even if you’re at his house because he will be at work. You’re right; your son’s thinking makes no sense.

OtherJen

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #466 on: March 26, 2020, 12:04:43 PM »
My son, a LEO, called me two days ago to tell me to pack a bug out bag.  I said as long as the grocery stores are open, we'll be fine.  At least until the hospitals start turning sick people away.

News today - the Metro Detroit hospitals are almost to capacity.  Boy, that was fast.

It's not about escaping the virus.  He wants me to come to his house where I would have far more exposure to the virus that I do now, because he is working 4 days a week.  He's concerned about civil unrest.  He lives further away from the city than I do.

I meant my post be tongue-in-cheek.  It's "incredibly stupid."  Until it isn't.

Oh, good lord. If we all bug out and what, head up north? We would only put the local residents and their smaller medical centers at risk. For example, Gaylord/Otsego County is already reporting multiple cases. I spent my childhood summers there, and the medical system is not up to handling this. Places like Grayling, Roscommon, Alpena, Cheboygan, and any place in the UP other than maybe Marquette are even less well equipped.

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #467 on: March 26, 2020, 12:14:02 PM »

former player

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #468 on: March 26, 2020, 12:20:59 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/us/woman-coughed-on-produce-trnd/index.html

Seriously, wtf is wrong with people?
There has been an announcement here in the UK that it is a criminal offence to cough or spit at health care workers (well, anyone, but apparently health care workers have been targeted).

Wankers.


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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #469 on: March 26, 2020, 12:30:34 PM »
It's beyond ridiculous that such a small # of people that were either apathetic or idiotic are effectively the ultimate source of most US infections.  How could you even sleep at night knowing so many died or the lost their income because of selfish actions?

Boofinator

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #470 on: March 26, 2020, 12:42:43 PM »
I half wonder if the first symptom of corona infection is stupidity (especially after the infected NBA player went around licking microphones).

Sibley

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #471 on: March 26, 2020, 12:52:53 PM »
My son, a LEO, called me two days ago to tell me to pack a bug out bag.  I said as long as the grocery stores are open, we'll be fine.  At least until the hospitals start turning sick people away.

News today - the Metro Detroit hospitals are almost to capacity.  Boy, that was fast.

It's not about escaping the virus.  He wants me to come to his house where I would have far more exposure to the virus that I do now, because he is working 4 days a week.  He's concerned about civil unrest.  He lives further away from the city than I do.

I meant my post be tongue-in-cheek.  It's "incredibly stupid."  Until it isn't.

Why does everyone think that Detroit will have civil unrest because of something? In 2003 there was a huge blackout. Most of the northeast quarter of the country lost power for several days. Everyone was worried that Detroit would go up in flames. I distinctly remember hearing afterwards that the average numbers of fires went DOWN. Crime went DOWN. And people helping people went UP.

DaMa, your son is not thinking clearly. Tell him so. You stay put. You're far safer holed up in your house than in his house. When he objects, send him some of the articles where it's reporting LEOs are getting infected. Because they are.

OtherJen

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #472 on: March 26, 2020, 01:02:35 PM »
My son, a LEO, called me two days ago to tell me to pack a bug out bag.  I said as long as the grocery stores are open, we'll be fine.  At least until the hospitals start turning sick people away.

News today - the Metro Detroit hospitals are almost to capacity.  Boy, that was fast.

It's not about escaping the virus.  He wants me to come to his house where I would have far more exposure to the virus that I do now, because he is working 4 days a week.  He's concerned about civil unrest.  He lives further away from the city than I do.

I meant my post be tongue-in-cheek.  It's "incredibly stupid."  Until it isn't.

Why does everyone think that Detroit will have civil unrest because of something? In 2003 there was a huge blackout. Most of the northeast quarter of the country lost power for several days. Everyone was worried that Detroit would go up in flames. I distinctly remember hearing afterwards that the average numbers of fires went DOWN. Crime went DOWN. And people helping people went UP.

DaMa, your son is not thinking clearly. Tell him so. You stay put. You're far safer holed up in your house than in his house. When he objects, send him some of the articles where it's reporting LEOs are getting infected. Because they are.

YES. Thank you.

caracarn

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #473 on: March 26, 2020, 01:09:28 PM »
You could of course  turn this around and ask as well:
How are the hysterical people expecting the contrarians to let crippling anxiety take over their lives? And what is it supposed to be good for?

You could ask that, but it would be a stupid thing to ask.

This is a straight choice between two options, both of which are really shitty:

1. Lock down hard and fast, and the economy takes a colossal hit. After several weeks, when new cases have slowed to a trickle, start gradually reopening society. Bring in a substantial surveillance apparatus using as much technology as possible to track and stamp down any new outbreaks as time goes on. In perhaps 18 months, mandatory vaccination for everyone who isn't immunocompromised, with absolutely zero tolerance for antivaxxers or religious exemptions. Don't like the vaccine? Fuck you, you're getting it.

2. Don't lock down, expect society to run as usual. The economy still takes a colossal hit, as anyone who can stay home will stay home, and hospitals become flooded with cases. With inadequate beds, medical personnel and equipment, people start dying in huge numbers. The economy goes down the toilet even faster. States start running out of coffins and storing corpses in industrial freezers. The medical system is reduced to rubble in a matter of months, as thousands of experienced professionals die or break down mentally. Six months later, society faces a totalled economy, a mountain of corpses, a thoroughly wrecked healthcare system and the worst death toll in centuries.

This is not a choice between the economy and the elderly, because there is no option that doesn't fuck the economy. Whatever we do, we're in for the worst depression since at least the 1930s, and quite possibly the worst since the Black Death. The only choice we get is roughly how many people die while the crash happens.
So I've been keeping up with several of the economists analyzing this and advocating action, and I would say most disagree with your final result.  The situation of 1 is expected to result in a recession of very short duration (6-9 months) because this is not a question of supply.  Robert Reich did a terrific job of explaining this scenario a few days ago.  This is the method we should pursue and which all leaders are.  The idiots (our president among them) is trying for 2 and that is one that most agree will result in a depression because it will cause waves of infection that recur and continue over an 18-24 month cycle and cause economic chaos throughout that time.

So the choices really seem to be, lockdown hard and once and do not relent too early and get through this in about 2 years total or come out too fast and drag the cycle on and look at multi year havoc.

DeniseNJ

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #474 on: March 26, 2020, 01:19:56 PM »
Aldi opened its doors from 8:30 to 9:30 for thoses over 65.  So I waited until 9:30, wore gloves and a mask, got in and out as quickly as possible, tossed the gloves and mask away, and sprayed each item with a quick spritz of alcohol before putting it in my car, then I sanitized hands before getting back in my car.  First time I left the house in 2 weeks.  So sometimes you have to leave the house--store wouldn't deliever for 2 weeks.  But still making sure I don't catch or spread covid.

runbikerun

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #475 on: March 26, 2020, 02:58:45 PM »
So I've been keeping up with several of the economists analyzing this and advocating action, and I would say most disagree with your final result.  The situation of 1 is expected to result in a recession of very short duration (6-9 months) because this is not a question of supply.  Robert Reich did a terrific job of explaining this scenario a few days ago.  This is the method we should pursue and which all leaders are.  The idiots (our president among them) is trying for 2 and that is one that most agree will result in a depression because it will cause waves of infection that recur and continue over an 18-24 month cycle and cause economic chaos throughout that time.

So the choices really seem to be, lockdown hard and once and do not relent too early and get through this in about 2 years total or come out too fast and drag the cycle on and look at multi year havoc.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see any quick route back to economic growth. The scale and speed of this crash is staggering, and I'm not confident that it'll be a brisk recovery. 800,000 jobs in the US were lost in a little over a year back in the late 2000s; there were 3.2 million job losses this week. A whole range of businesses are going to be in severe trouble with or without government intervention, and simply will not survive in their current form for more than a few weeks at this rate. And restrictions will be loosened piecemeal rather than all at once. And supply chains for a host of industries will have to be redesigned and reorganised. And a whole swathe of people in precarious industries will, I suspect, become hellbent on insulating themselves against future crashes and disasters. This is the kind of event that permanently alters cultures, and a lot of freelancers who just saw a year's work vanish in days (and formerly employed workers who are now scrambling to pay for essentials) will respond to a recovery by piling money into an emergency fund rather than going to restaurants and buying cars.

I do think you're right that we'll see the beginnings of a recovery in about two years, but it will be slower and from a lower baseline, and I'm not sure we'll ever go back to the way things were six months ago.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 03:01:11 PM by runbikerun »

American GenX

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #476 on: March 26, 2020, 03:11:28 PM »
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see any quick route back to economic growth. The scale and speed of this crash is staggering, and I'm not confident that it'll be a brisk recovery. 800,000 jobs in the US were lost in a little over a year back in the late 2000s; there were 3.2 million job losses this week. A whole range of businesses are going to be in severe trouble with or without government intervention, and simply will not survive in their current form for more than a few weeks at this rate. And restrictions will be loosened piecemeal rather than all at once. And supply chains for a host of industries will have to be redesigned and reorganised. And a whole swathe of people in precarious industries will, I suspect, become hellbent on insulating themselves against future crashes and disasters. This is the kind of event that permanently alters cultures, and a lot of freelancers who just saw a year's work vanish in days (and formerly employed workers who are now scrambling to pay for essentials) will respond to a recovery by piling money into an emergency fund rather than going to restaurants and buying cars.

I do think you're right that we'll see the beginnings of a recovery in about two years, but it will be slower and from a lower baseline, and I'm not sure we'll ever go back to the way things were six months ago.

Yes, the worst is yet to come.  We have a long hard road ahead of us to recover from this.  Considering how early we are in the course of the coronavirus spreading through the U.S., I except things to get much worse and for stocks to hit new lows compared to the last week.

SwordGuy

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #477 on: March 26, 2020, 03:13:22 PM »
…. And a whole swathe of people in precarious industries will, I suspect, become hellbent on insulating themselves against future crashes and disasters. This is the kind of event that permanently alters cultures, and a lot of freelancers who just saw a year's work vanish in days (and formerly employed workers who are now scrambling to pay for essentials) will respond to a recovery by piling money into an emergency fund rather than going to restaurants and buying cars.

I do think you're right that we'll see the beginnings of a recovery in about two years, but it will be slower and from a lower baseline, and I'm not sure we'll ever go back to the way things were six months ago.

I was a kid when the Arab Oil embargo of 1973 took place.   Gasoline prices doubled overnight.   Long, hours long lines of people waiting for gasoline.

America's love for big cars that guzzled gasoline was destroyed forever.

And here we are now, in the land of $80,000 pickup trucks, which are NEVER used as trucks, and which burn gasoline with reckless abandon.   And it's not like that was the last time gasoline prices doubled overnight since 1973.

Remember, no one ever lost money underestimating the American public.

Some people will get the savings religion.   A portion of those will actually continue to save big time after 6 months to a year.
But most will go right back to what they were doing.    I've seen it before and fully expect to see it again.


dandarc

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #478 on: March 26, 2020, 03:54:49 PM »
@American GenX  That's the thing I think a lot of people don't realize - we're only at about 0.025% (250 per million) of the US population confirmed infected - even if the reported numbers are low, there is almost certainly a long way to go here. And hospitals in some areas you might expect and some you probably wouldn't are already near capacity.

0.025% is a good number if you're talking mutual fund expense ratios. Pretty scary when you've got people out there thinking we'll be pretty much back to normal within a couple of weeks.


mm1970

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #480 on: March 26, 2020, 04:41:46 PM »
^In LA crime is already down by 6%. Although that may be due to fewer arrests being made and more people at home. But they expect domestic violence crimes to be higher because of so much time being isolated with "loved ones".
Here in SB we are seeing an uptick in youth gang activity because: no school.


Dogastrophe

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #482 on: March 26, 2020, 05:44:28 PM »
One province over a lady was arrested and placed in a holding cell for violating her self isolation order. 

"Police told CBC News on Tuesday their primary goal was to educate people on the need to stay home and arrests would only come if someone refused to comply.

In this case, police said education wasn't enough."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/corner-brook-woman-arrested-covid-19-1.5509212

There are a lot of people not following the quarantine.  I'm hoping it doesn't come to a full ban on leaving the home.

I was speaking with a colleague in Corner Brook a few mins ago who has some insider info.  Apparently the lady was in a cab and told the driver that she was supposed to be self isolating.  He stopped cab, told her to get out, and called police.  Police arrived to assess the situation and, as she stomped up the road away from them, explained in explicit detail the manner in which they could fuck themselves and their mother.

And they released her from custody on Wednesday only to rearrest her on Thursday. FFS  Just an edit.  Apparently the women involved has a history of mental illness.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/rnc-public-health-arrest-isolate-quarantine-1.5510514
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 05:22:19 AM by Dogastrophe »

GuitarStv

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SwordGuy

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #484 on: March 26, 2020, 06:51:28 PM »
We beat China in confirmed cases! Woot! We're #1!!!! SUCK IT, CHINA!!! #murica

https://www.axios.com/united-states-most-coronavirus-cases-52b6d1b5-bc65-4b86-a42d-712cf9e3b556.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100&fbclid=IwAR3rS4WnRZ9hap6VmLCUa7E1x6hlTPcW7K67iHxotUoEMRvDTCGQaXG8fqE




MAGA BABY! 

Who said Trump's an unfit leader?

Trump finally made America the greatest at something!

And **so** sportsmanlike, too!

Even though the Chinese cheated and got at least a month's lead on us and tested gobs and gobs of people to get their count up, Trump made sure they retained a sporting chance by barely testing anyone in our country.

But with good ole American hard work and ingenuity, we still got to #1

#1 !!!

#1 !!!

#1 !!!

MAGA for the win!       

And that #DieForTheDow inspiration!   Simply brilliant!    Instead of letting old and already ill people die expensive deaths on medicare after years of draining down the social security trust fund, they're going to let them die now at their own expense.   
My astonishment knows no bounds.

And since those folks weren't productive, i.e., making money by working for him and his rich friends, which means they should have been done away with anyway, our productivity stats per capita should go up, too!   

PS -- all that is sarcasm.  It's not always easy to tell the difference anymore between biting sarcasm using ridiculous, over-the-top policy suggestions and actual positions put forward by Republicans in office anymore.

Haven't seen them realize our productivity stats per capita would go up, but as for the rest, yep, we have elected sociopaths who think this is good policy.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 07:13:19 PM by SwordGuy »

PDXTabs

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #485 on: March 26, 2020, 08:24:44 PM »
Is this what he meant when he said that we would be tired of winning?

ender

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #486 on: March 26, 2020, 09:25:02 PM »
So I've been keeping up with several of the economists analyzing this and advocating action, and I would say most disagree with your final result.  The situation of 1 is expected to result in a recession of very short duration (6-9 months) because this is not a question of supply.  Robert Reich did a terrific job of explaining this scenario a few days ago.  This is the method we should pursue and which all leaders are.  The idiots (our president among them) is trying for 2 and that is one that most agree will result in a depression because it will cause waves of infection that recur and continue over an 18-24 month cycle and cause economic chaos throughout that time.

So the choices really seem to be, lockdown hard and once and do not relent too early and get through this in about 2 years total or come out too fast and drag the cycle on and look at multi year havoc.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see any quick route back to economic growth. The scale and speed of this crash is staggering, and I'm not confident that it'll be a brisk recovery. 800,000 jobs in the US were lost in a little over a year back in the late 2000s; there were 3.2 million job losses this week. A whole range of businesses are going to be in severe trouble with or without government intervention, and simply will not survive in their current form for more than a few weeks at this rate. And restrictions will be loosened piecemeal rather than all at once. And supply chains for a host of industries will have to be redesigned and reorganised. And a whole swathe of people in precarious industries will, I suspect, become hellbent on insulating themselves against future crashes and disasters. This is the kind of event that permanently alters cultures, and a lot of freelancers who just saw a year's work vanish in days (and formerly employed workers who are now scrambling to pay for essentials) will respond to a recovery by piling money into an emergency fund rather than going to restaurants and buying cars.

I do think you're right that we'll see the beginnings of a recovery in about two years, but it will be slower and from a lower baseline, and I'm not sure we'll ever go back to the way things were six months ago.

Something to consider is that in theory, most of those job losses were temporary here and many claims were reduction in hours/etc.

If say 90% of those 3.2M were reduction in hours then if the entire situation happens very quickly, then they might regain their hours quickly.

Villanelle

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #487 on: March 26, 2020, 11:37:55 PM »
A casual friend now has it. Her 80 yo father, with whom she has been staying, is hospitalized, on a respirator, and doctors are not saying good things.  His positive test is back.  Her's is still out, but it's pretty clear she has it.  She is in her late 20s or early 30s and said she has never experienced anything like this.  Her descriptions are terrifying and heartbreaking.  She's still at home, at least for now.

It also makes me irrationally (or perhaps it is entirely rational) at the people who continue to deny this.  And continue to defy the things that are going to help prevent some of this extreme suffering.  And make no mistake--it is *suffering*.  And the longer these selfish assholes keep going to the beach and church and restaurants, the longer the rest of us who are doing the right thing have to continue with these measures.

I'm on week 4 of near entire social isolation.  I started early because I could and it seemed like the right thing.  At the time, I didn't fear the disease, and I thought I was just doing it for the community.  Now, I'm also scared for myself and my family.  It's not the flu, even for young people.  It's not pneumonia.  It's cruel and painful and hope-stealing and awful in a way that I can't put in to words. 

And I feel like we are at the beginning of the suffering here in most of the US.

I think you're right, unfortunately. You have an awful pandemic situation, a terrible health system, and massive mis-management. We're all in lockdown or at some point in this nasty situation, but the world is looking at USA watching a train wreck happening. It's awful.

I know have a second acquaintance with a presumtive case.  Another relative young person (probably early 30s).  Went to the ER, has pneumonia, awaiting Covid test results.

~~~~

And the notion that we should violate the olds and infirms?  These are young healthy women.  Not overweight, no major health conditions of which I'm aware.  Yet these women are incredibly sick.  They will likely be in no condition to go to a workplace for weeks.   That's not going to have an economic impact?  Of course it is.  And that's sort of a best case scenario. 

   

SwordGuy

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #488 on: March 27, 2020, 12:03:10 AM »
I know two people who have it for sure.

One is a skilled nurse who, thankfully, hasn't had to be hospitalized.   She feels miserable, though.   But our testing regimen is so bad that she hasn't been tested for it because they couldn't spare the tests, so she isn't in the test group.

The second is a lady in our old neighborhood.   She's been hospitalized and her husband can't go see her because she's isolated.   I saw him yesterday while we were picking up stuff from the old house and asked him (from 20 feet away) how she was doing.   It's obvious he has no hope left.   I don't know whether she's been officially counted or not.




bigblock440

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #489 on: March 27, 2020, 06:16:56 AM »
So I've been keeping up with several of the economists analyzing this and advocating action, and I would say most disagree with your final result.  The situation of 1 is expected to result in a recession of very short duration (6-9 months) because this is not a question of supply.  Robert Reich did a terrific job of explaining this scenario a few days ago.  This is the method we should pursue and which all leaders are.  The idiots (our president among them) is trying for 2 and that is one that most agree will result in a depression because it will cause waves of infection that recur and continue over an 18-24 month cycle and cause economic chaos throughout that time.

So the choices really seem to be, lockdown hard and once and do not relent too early and get through this in about 2 years total or come out too fast and drag the cycle on and look at multi year havoc.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see any quick route back to economic growth. The scale and speed of this crash is staggering, and I'm not confident that it'll be a brisk recovery. 800,000 jobs in the US were lost in a little over a year back in the late 2000s; there were 3.2 million job losses this week.

That's not 3.2 million lost jobs, that's 3.2 million unemployment claims.  Governor declares a state of emergence, shuts down all restaurants, bars, stores, gathering places etc. for a few weeks, those people now file for unemployment since they won't get paid and (like you said) the businesses can't afford to pay them.  Multiply that by 50 states.  Do you really think that once the restrictions are lifted, those places won't open back up?  Nobody's ever going to a bar or restaurant again?  No, not everything's going to come back right away, but those numbers are so big due to a government mandated temporary closure, not because the jobs disappeared. 

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #490 on: March 27, 2020, 09:41:15 AM »
Here is more alarming  irrationality from a high-ranking Mexican official.

NY Times
March 26



“The majority [of those infected] are wealthy people. If you are rich, you are at risk. If you are poor, no...We poor people, we are immune.” Puebla Gov. Miguel Barbosa


PDXTabs

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #491 on: March 27, 2020, 09:52:01 AM »
That's not 3.2 million lost jobs, that's 3.2 million unemployment claims.

Additionally, in some (most?, all?) states you can claim unemployment even if you are still working. For example, if your 40 hour a week job got cut to 8 hours a week.

Cassie

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #492 on: March 27, 2020, 11:45:02 AM »
I would guess that many small businesses will never reopen. Restaurants in particular don’t have a huge profit margin.

martyconlonontherun

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #493 on: March 27, 2020, 11:50:26 AM »
I would guess that many small businesses will never reopen. Restaurants in particular don’t have a huge profit margin.
I think I read someone said 75% will never reopen. But I assume that is under the same name. I'm sure owners will reopen after bankruptcy or new people will open restaurants in replace of old ones. Yes, less people will be eating out, but rents will also go down.

Kris

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #494 on: March 27, 2020, 11:50:35 AM »
I would guess that many small businesses will never reopen. Restaurants in particular don’t have a huge profit margin.

That's okay about the restaurants, though, according to Trump:

“I’ve heard 3 percent could be lost, and you could go as high as 10 or 11 percent, but they’ll all come back in one form of another. Might be a different restaurant. But it’s gonna be a great business for a lot of people. We’re making it easy for people — look, what we’re doing in terms of loans, what we’re doing in terms of salaries, they’ll all come back. It may not be the same restaurant, it may not be the same ownership, but they’ll all be back.”

Dancin'Dog

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #495 on: March 27, 2020, 12:04:42 PM »
I would guess that many small businesses will never reopen. Restaurants in particular don’t have a huge profit margin.

That's okay about the restaurants, though, according to Trump:

“I’ve heard 3 percent could be lost, and you could go as high as 10 or 11 percent, but they’ll all come back in one form of another. Might be a different restaurant. But it’s gonna be a great business for a lot of people. We’re making it easy for people — look, what we’re doing in terms of loans, what we’re doing in terms of salaries, they’ll all come back. It may not be the same restaurant, it may not be the same ownership, but they’ll all be back.”


So, why do we need to bail out the airlines & cruise lines again, and resorts?  They'll all come back in some form or fashion. 




frugalnacho

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #496 on: March 27, 2020, 12:05:46 PM »
They'll all be back by Easter.

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #497 on: March 27, 2020, 12:10:15 PM »
They'll all be back by Easter.

One of these Easters anyway.

SwordGuy

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #498 on: March 27, 2020, 12:24:46 PM »
I would guess that many small businesses will never reopen. Restaurants in particular don’t have a huge profit margin.

That's okay about the restaurants, though, according to Trump:

“I’ve heard 3 percent could be lost, and you could go as high as 10 or 11 percent, but they’ll all come back in one form of another. Might be a different restaurant. But it’s gonna be a great business for a lot of people. We’re making it easy for people — look, what we’re doing in terms of loans, what we’re doing in terms of salaries, they’ll all come back. It may not be the same restaurant, it may not be the same ownership, but they’ll all be back.”


So, why do we need to bail out the airlines & cruise lines again, and resorts?  They'll all come back in some form or fashion.

Because ultra-rich people who buy and sell congressmen don't own stock in the neighborhood restaurant, but they do own stock in the big businesses.

That's why.

Follow the money.

ender

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Re: Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?
« Reply #499 on: March 27, 2020, 03:53:11 PM »
Here is more alarming  irrationality from a high-ranking Mexican official.

NY Times
March 26



“The majority [of those infected] are wealthy people. If you are rich, you are at risk. If you are poor, no...We poor people, we are immune.” Puebla Gov. Miguel Barbosa

Depending on how strongly correlated wealth and life expectancy... that might not be so far from the truth as far as averages go?