Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?

[Paul der Krake]

Those European borders that cannot be closed? Yeah, they're closing, partially:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51897069

[SwordGuy]

Right.  So if an employee leaves their kids home alone that's a criminal offence?  Or at least a potential intervention by social services?  If the employer wants the employee to come in to work and the employee has no available childcare, what happens?  Let's suppose the employee is a good little mustachian and has FU money.  Either the employer solves the child care problem or they are short a vital employee, right?

In the US, the employers generally don't give a rat's ass about your personal problems.   And having a child to take care of -- especially if it's a woman who has to do the caring -- is way down near the bottom of the might give-a-shit list.

The employee is just supposed to show up.  If they go to jail for child endangerment, then they'll be fired and replaced.  If the kid dies and they mope around, they'll be fired for being a bad performer and be replaced.   

That's just how it is.

There are occasional managers who (a) remember to be human beings and (b) are allowed (or can get away with) doing the decent thing.

[Dancin'Dog]

Right.  So if an employee leaves their kids home alone that's a criminal offence?  Or at least a potential intervention by social services?  If the employer wants the employee to come in to work and the employee has no available childcare, what happens?  Let's suppose the employee is a good little mustachian and has FU money.  Either the employer solves the child care problem or they are short a vital employee, right?

In the US, the employers generally don't give a rat's ass about your personal problems.   And having a child to take care of -- especially if it's a woman who has to do the caring -- is way down near the bottom of the might give-a-shit list.

The employee is just supposed to show up.  If they go to jail for child endangerment, then they'll be fired and replaced.  If the kid dies and they mope around, they'll be fired for being a bad performer and be replaced.   

That's just how it is.

There are occasional managers who (a) remember to be human beings and (b) are allowed (or can get away with) doing the decent thing.

That's why Biden's ahead.  Americans in general don't have enough sense as a group to care about the group.  Everybody thinks that they can "win" the rat race.  They aren't smart enough to realize that the race has been run, and they lost at birth. 

[elaine amj]

I have a cousin that works in Detroit metro airport and comes into contact with thousands of international visitors. She works as a translator between English and Japanese.  She's got all the symptoms of covid-19 and went to the Dr. They sent her to the drive through testing facility set up to test for coronavirus. They performed a test for the coronavirus and sent her home with instructions to self quarantine.  That was a couple of days ago.  She just got contacted with the results which were "uh, we decided not to test you after all. You're young and will get through this, just continue your quarantine. we have limited tests and need to save them for people that actually need it"

So maybe the official numbers in the USA will stay very low? Can't have any official positive cases if you don't actually test anyone.

Wow. Just wow.

Sent from my VCE-AL00 using Tapatalk

[deborah]

I have a cousin that works in Detroit metro airport and comes into contact with thousands of international visitors. She works as a translator between English and Japanese.  She's got all the symptoms of covid-19 and went to the Dr. They sent her to the drive through testing facility set up to test for coronavirus. They performed a test for the coronavirus and sent her home with instructions to self quarantine.  That was a couple of days ago.  She just got contacted with the results which were "uh, we decided not to test you after all. You're young and will get through this, just continue your quarantine. we have limited tests and need to save them for people that actually need it"

So maybe the official numbers in the USA will stay very low? Can't have any official positive cases if you don't actually test anyone.

Wow. Just wow.

Sent from my VCE-AL00 using Tapatalk

With no testing, you have fewer cases. However, even if you end up with the same number of deaths it will make the death rate significantly higher.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Right.  So if an employee leaves their kids home alone that's a criminal offence?  Or at least a potential intervention by social services?  If the employer wants the employee to come in to work and the employee has no available childcare, what happens?  Let's suppose the employee is a good little mustachian and has FU money.  Either the employer solves the child care problem or they are short a vital employee, right?

The employee makes a choice, and lives with the consequences. You know, pretty standard adulting stuff.

Haha that made me laugh.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Apparently Trump has offered money for exclusive access to a vaccine. Only for America. What a man!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/15/trump-offers-large-sums-for-exclusive-access-to-coronavirus-vaccine

[scottish]

Right.  So if an employee leaves their kids home alone that's a criminal offence?  Or at least a potential intervention by social services?  If the employer wants the employee to come in to work and the employee has no available childcare, what happens?  Let's suppose the employee is a good little mustachian and has FU money.  Either the employer solves the child care problem or they are short a vital employee, right?

In the US, the employers generally don't give a rat's ass about your personal problems.   And having a child to take care of -- especially if it's a woman who has to do the caring -- is way down near the bottom of the might give-a-shit list.

The employee is just supposed to show up.  If they go to jail for child endangerment, then they'll be fired and replaced.  If the kid dies and they mope around, they'll be fired for being a bad performer and be replaced.   

That's just how it is.

There are occasional managers who (a) remember to be human beings and (b) are allowed (or can get away with) doing the decent thing.

No wonder so many mustachians are from the US.    Wow.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

That reads like fake news.

The Guardian is a reliable national newspaper of long standing. If it's fake news, so is the NY Times.

[GuitarStv]

I have a cousin that works in Detroit metro airport and comes into contact with thousands of international visitors. She works as a translator between English and Japanese.  She's got all the symptoms of covid-19 and went to the Dr. They sent her to the drive through testing facility set up to test for coronavirus. They performed a test for the coronavirus and sent her home with instructions to self quarantine.  That was a couple of days ago.  She just got contacted with the results which were "uh, we decided not to test you after all. You're young and will get through this, just continue your quarantine. we have limited tests and need to save them for people that actually need it"

So maybe the official numbers in the USA will stay very low? Can't have any official positive cases if you don't actually test anyone.

Wow. Just wow.

Sent from my VCE-AL00 using Tapatalk

With no testing, you have fewer cases. However, even if you end up with the same number of deaths it will make the death rate significantly higher.

Nah, there are ways to fix that problem too.  For a long while there has been a lot of pressure on Japanese cops to minimize homicide numbers and make the country look very safe.  So you would get a lot of people who were say, stabbed to death and bled out filed as 'natural deaths'.  Because, if someone stabs you and you lose a lot of blood . . . it's natural that you die.

By the same token, just because someone dies of coronavirus it's impossible to say what really happened if you don't test the body.  And why would you waste a test on a body if they're already dead?  Trump ensured a shortage of tests.  Seems like a waste to test the dead.

:P

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

They have both been fooled before.  Seems really far out to be true, I guess we will see.

Seems completely in keeping with the character of that fine gentleman you call a president to me.

[SwordGuy]

The thing that seems fake about it is the "exclusive" part.  It could be that money was offered internationally to fast track this vaccine but it seems to fall apart when it becomes "only if it is for the US."  That feels made up and highly provable as false.  Time will tell.   

It's precisely the kind of dickish thing Trump would think of.   He would crow to his supporters about how he's the only one with a cure and he would make other countries do what we want to get it.   And if possible, he would be getting a slice of the profits.  How does that meme go?   "Convince me I'm wrong!"

[deborah]

The thing that seems fake about it is the "exclusive" part.  It could be that money was offered internationally to fast track this vaccine but it seems to fall apart when it becomes "only if it is for the US."  That feels made up and highly provable as false.  Time will tell.     

I expect it’s true. This type of deal is relatively common - though I haven’t heard of it before with regard to vaccines. There are plenty of things that are exclusively available in the US - for instance, some equipment I use that’s manufactured in Australia for a Swiss company is only available in in US for the first six months of availability of a new version. We cannot buy it until it’s been available for at least that long. I expect that your president is familiar with such contracts, and I am not at all surprised that he’s done this.

[better late]

I have a cousin that works in Detroit metro airport and comes into contact with thousands of international visitors. She works as a translator between English and Japanese.  She's got all the symptoms of covid-19 and went to the Dr. They sent her to the drive through testing facility set up to test for coronavirus. They performed a test for the coronavirus and sent her home with instructions to self quarantine.  That was a couple of days ago.  She just got contacted with the results which were "uh, we decided not to test you after all. You're young and will get through this, just continue your quarantine. we have limited tests and need to save them for people that actually need it"

So maybe the official numbers in the USA will stay very low? Can't have any official positive cases if you don't actually test anyone.

Wow. Just wow.

Sent from my VCE-AL00 using Tapatalk

With no testing, you have fewer cases. However, even if you end up with the same number of deaths it will make the death rate significantly higher.

I think this is the number we should be talking about. Last I looked the death rate in America is 50%.  Outside of the US  I've seen ranges from 1 - 4%.   I would like to see President Trump address that statistic. 

[American GenX]

I think this is the number we should be talking about. Last I looked the death rate in America is 50%.  Outside of the US  I've seen ranges from 1 - 4%.   I would like to see President Trump address that statistic.

The American death rate would be based on closed cases.  There's close to 70 deaths and 70 recovered, but there are thousands of active cases and many who still need tested.  So, 50% is a snapshot in time, but that number will come down significantly with more recoveries, hopefully resulting in less than 1% fatality rate.

[better late]

I think this is the number we should be talking about. Last I looked the death rate in America is 50%.  Outside of the US  I've seen ranges from 1 - 4%.   I would like to see President Trump address that statistic.

The American death rate would be based on closed cases.  There's close to 70 deaths and 70 recovered, but there are thousands of active cases and many who still need tested.  So, 50% is a snapshot in time, but that number will come down significantly with more recoveries, hopefully resulting in less than 1% fatality rate.

Well - yes. The American death rate is based on closed cases, as is the death rates I mentioned for all the other countries. My point is that Trump would have to concede that either 1) Americans are dying at a staggering rate or 2) we’ve only tested a minuscule number of people who have been infected.

[American GenX]

I think this is the number we should be talking about. Last I looked the death rate in America is 50%.  Outside of the US  I've seen ranges from 1 - 4%.   I would like to see President Trump address that statistic.

The American death rate would be based on closed cases.  There's close to 70 deaths and 70 recovered, but there are thousands of active cases and many who still need tested.  So, 50% is a snapshot in time, but that number will come down significantly with more recoveries, hopefully resulting in less than 1% fatality rate.

Well - yes. The American death rate is based on closed cases, as is the death rates I mentioned for all the other countries. My point is that Trump would have to concede that either 1) Americans are dying at a staggering rate or 2) we’ve only tested a minuscule number of people who have been infected.

It's pretty high in some other countries when only including closed cases.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/coronavirus/msg2581435/#msg2581435

[Omy]

Are all US deaths being tested for covid-19? Or will they just be lumped into the "Flu" or "Respiratory Illness" categories to keep the numbers down for Trump? I feel like such a conspiracy theorist these days...

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

The thing that seems fake about it is the "exclusive" part.  It could be that money was offered internationally to fast track this vaccine but it seems to fall apart when it becomes "only if it is for the US."  That feels made up and highly provable as false.  Time will tell.   

You could be right. I don't know. But to me it sits right up in Trump's Make America Great Again and Build A Wall ethos. If the USA had a vaccine, there's no way in the world it would be shared for free.

[Fish Sweet]

That reads like fake news.

US officials are claiming that it is, but the German Health Ministry has confirmed the quotes in the original publication. 

A German Health Ministry spokeswoman, confirming a quote in the newspaper, said: “The German government is very interested in ensuring that vaccines and active substances against the new coronavirus are also developed in Germany and Europe.”

“In this regard, the government is in intensive exchange with the company CureVac,” she added.

Welt am Sonntag quoted an unidentified German government source as saying Trump was trying to secure the scientists’ work exclusively, and would do anything to get a vaccine for the United States, “but only for the United States.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-usa/germany-tries-to-stop-us-from-luring-away-firm-seeking-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN2120IV

[Roland of Gilead]

Hey, we lured away the scientists in WWII from Germany so we could get the bomb before them and that turned out ok.

[Fish Sweet]

More on the topic of COVID-19 stupidity, it's nice (not) to see all the anti-Asian racists come crawling out of the woodwork at the slightest excuse to show their asses.  Friend got screamed at (literally) today for a grocery trip with her spouse to Chinatown, along the gist of "THE CHINESE THERE JUST ESCAPED CHINA BEFORE THEY CLOSED THE BORDERS, THEY BROUGHT IT HERE" and "THEY'RE DEFINITELY GONNA INFECT YOU WITH CORONAVIRUS."  A bonus:  "I'm not racist, you shouldn't be hanging around any Italians either."

Double bonus: the friend in question has a Chinese spouse, Chinese in-laws, and extended family all living in China.

[familyandfarming]

I’m the one who is going 2 states away to babysit for my daughter who works at a hospital. I decided to leave Tuesday morning as my husband is planning on also coming as the weather is not good enough to farm and is planning staying for a week to build a swing set for her 4 year old. He’s planning to return to the farm next week when the weather clears.

This trip requires one stop for gas for a complete refill of the tank. Does anyone foresee closings of gas stations? That would mean he would be stranded from the farm. If so, I will drive myself and leave him on the farm. (We have large gas tanks on the farm filled with diesel to put in the crop)

[Omy]

Gas stations being empty is very unlikely. But I would recommend starting to look for gas well before you are empty in case a particular town has supply issues. Our approach will be to keep at least a half tank in both vehicles at all times. This should help us avoid lines at the gas booth if folks start to hoard or if the government institutes any sort of gas rationing (which is unlikely).

[Kris]

They have both been fooled before.  Seems really far out to be true, I guess we will see.

Seems completely in keeping with the character of that fine gentleman you call a president to me.

Right? I mean... come on. It would be a lot more surprising to see him do something non-selfish and self-serving. How this reads as fake news is beyond me.

[PDXTabs]

More on the topic of COVID-19 stupidity, it's nice (not) to see all the anti-Asian racists come crawling out of the woodwork at the slightest excuse to show their asses.

Yup, I'm glad that all my Chinese family is currently in Singapore where it is still safe to be Chinese. Also, coincidentally, they have the Covid-19 situation under control, at least for now.

With that said, there was plenty of food at my local Asian market over the weekend. If your local big box store is stripped please give your local Asian market a try.

[OtherJen]

Definitely will plan a stop at the Asian grocery on Wednesday. Racism isn’t just awful, it’s incredibly stupid.

[mwulff]

More on the topic of COVID-19 stupidity, it's nice (not) to see all the anti-Asian racists come crawling out of the woodwork at the slightest excuse to show their asses.

Yup, I'm glad that all my Chinese family is currently in Singapore where it is still safe to be Chinese. Also, coincidentally, they have the Covid-19 situation under control, at least for now.

With that said, there was plenty of food at my local Asian market over the weekend. If your local big box store is stripped please give your local Asian market a try.

I am actually shocked that anybody would use this as an excuse to vent racism. In my opinion no single chinese person (even patient zero) has any responsibility for this mess that we are in right now.

You could argue that chinese food-market practices are what caused this mess (according to latest scientific consensus) and that if China as a country wishes to maintain good relations with the rest of the world some changes might be nessecary.

But that is a complicated topic that will likely not be resolved over the next few weeks. But I sure hope we see cultural and legal changes that will make it far less likely that such a situation occurs again.

[DadJokes]

Here's a fun article about stupidity and the worst of humanity: https://news.yahoo.com/brothers-hoarded-17-700-bottles-232925031.html

A couple guys bought up all of the hand sanitizer in the area, leaving shelves empty for others. They attempted to re-sell at a massive markup, but Amazon & eBay shut down their stores. The TN Attorney General basically forced them to donate it all away. They've also received a lot of hate mail and death threats since the story ran in the New York Times.

With the virus going around and the actions by some people that have added to the chaos, I'm reminded of a Mark Twain quote: "The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

[better late]

I think this is the number we should be talking about. Last I looked the death rate in America is 50%.  Outside of the US  I've seen ranges from 1 - 4%.   I would like to see President Trump address that statistic.

The American death rate would be based on closed cases.  There's close to 70 deaths and 70 recovered, but there are thousands of active cases and many who still need tested.  So, 50% is a snapshot in time, but that number will come down significantly with more recoveries, hopefully resulting in less than 1% fatality rate.

Well - yes. The American death rate is based on closed cases, as is the death rates I mentioned for all the other countries. My point is that Trump would have to concede that either 1) Americans are dying at a staggering rate or 2) we’ve only tested a minuscule number of people who have been infected.

It's pretty high in some other countries when only including closed cases.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/coronavirus/msg2581435/#msg2581435

Good point. When you look at Italy’s death rate of 44% versus S. Korea’s of 6%. Part of that is the difference between the two countries in testing numbers. Part of that is that people are dying at a staggering rate in Italy.

[mm1970]

Locally, last Friday we all got word that schools would be closing for 3 weeks.  Now, if you've been reading the news, you'd know that:
1. It's an issue in CA
2. We didn't have any local cases, but hadn't tested anyone
3. We are supposed to use social distancing.  It's pretty obvious what that is - you can find that online.

So, first up, one of my local friends goes on a RANT about how negative everyone is being about schools being off.  Be POSITIVE!  Come up with SOLUTIONS!  It's a CHALLENGE.  Talk about privilege and tone deaf.  Lady:
- Not everyone can feed their kids
- People in hospitality have ALREADY lost their jobs and home
- Not everyone has PTO, or can work from home
- Not everyone has kids old enough to stay home alone (she does)
Uggghhhh

If that's not the worst, this weekend she shows a fucking picture of her young KINDERGARTNER with 6-7 other kids at a birthday party.  WTAF do you NOT understand about social distancing?  Well, I guess it's easy to be positive if  you aren't going to change your life AT ALL.

[Sibley]

My company is being kinda dumb, but ok.

I had a baby shower and 2-year-old's birthday party coming up in the next couple weeks. Both are now cancelled. The birthday party (for a 2 year old! who has no concept of time!) I'm pretty sure was only cancelled because IL closed all the restaurants and bars. No consideration of potentially spreading disease from what I can tell. Though the message was from the husband. The wife is not dumb, is a statistical expert (phD, professor) and I'm sure is well aware of the possibilities.

[SwordGuy]

Here's a fun article about stupidity and the worst of humanity: https://news.yahoo.com/brothers-hoarded-17-700-bottles-232925031.html

A couple guys bought up all of the hand sanitizer in the area, leaving shelves empty for others. They attempted to re-sell at a massive markup, but Amazon & eBay shut down their stores. The TN Attorney General basically forced them to donate it all away. They've also received a lot of hate mail and death threats since the story ran in the New York Times.

With the virus going around and the actions by some people that have added to the chaos, I'm reminded of a Mark Twain quote: "The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

I had read that article when it came out.   Selfish bastards.  I'm glad they lost their shirt on this.

[SwordGuy]

More on the topic of COVID-19 stupidity, it's nice (not) to see all the anti-Asian racists come crawling out of the woodwork at the slightest excuse to show their asses.

Yup, I'm glad that all my Chinese family is currently in Singapore where it is still safe to be Chinese. Also, coincidentally, they have the Covid-19 situation under control, at least for now.

With that said, there was plenty of food at my local Asian market over the weekend. If your local big box store is stripped please give your local Asian market a try.

I am actually shocked that anybody would use this as an excuse to vent racism. In my opinion no single chinese person (even patient zero) has any responsibility for this mess that we are in right now.

If you are an American, you have led a wonderfully sheltered life.   Please trust us on that.

This kind of scum exists in non-trivial numbers and will come out at the slightest "excuse" for it.   Or if they think you are "on their side".

I was wearing a "Fight Truth Decay" tshirt to the grocery the other day.  Some dude thought the shirt meant I'm against gays so he came over to discuss that with his new found friend.   I told him he was a God-damned bigot and to go fuck himself, and walked off.   

[intellectsucks]

"From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases..., 274,304 hospitalizations..., and 12,469 deaths in the United States due to the (H1N1) virus."  source:  https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

These numbers are for the United States only, not worldwide.  Recall this was immediately after the 2008 stock collapse which was the result of years of grift in the mortgage industry and the shaking of banking in this country.  You can just imagine what would have happened if we had voluntarily tanked our economy even further back then by shutting down business and sports. 

So why don't we all recall the horrible scourge of swine flu?  60 million sick and 275K hospitalized, holy shit! 

We need to ask ourselves who is benefitting from this current hysteria and then downshift our emotions accordingly.  Exercise healthy cynicism about the 24 hour news cycle and clicks and eyeballs and the profit of an election year panic.  Then wash your hands and maybe just e-mail grandma this month rather than visit in person.     

With the extreme measures taken and increased hygiene awareness the disease spread will slow and can end faster.  This is great news.  Fortunately the economy was robust enough this time to absorb this temporary event and there is no reason to think people will not be back working and patronizing businesses again within just a few weeks.  Excellent.  Who profits if they do not?  Really, who is heavily invested in keeping the panic hot?  Once you answer honestly, downshift and refuse to participate in the frenzy.     

Pass it on.           

I wish more people were as level headed as you.

[dandarc]

I see a lot of selfish thinking underneath that post. Read up on what has been happening in Italy. That could be the U.S. in about 2 weeks. Sorry grandma - we have to let someone younger have the ventilator. Implying there is a conspiracy at work and that this is no big deal is not helpful for anyone.

Read something that doesn't play into Donald "I didn't know the flu kills people" Trump's narrative:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-h1n1-swine-flu-pandemic-spin/

[dandarc]

So why don't we all recall the horrible scourge of swine flu?  60 million sick and 275K hospitalized, holy shit! 

Perhaps a shorter answer - because we were lucky. And our government did more in the early days of that than they did this time.

[Omy]

COVID-19 experts think 40-70% of people will get it (that's 132-231 million people in the US). And that 20% of those people will need medical care (26-46 million people in the US). One quarter of those people will need critical care (7.5-11.5 million in the US)...and we have fewer than 1 million ICU beds and shortages of medical professionals and resources. With a 1% fatality rate we lose 1-2 million people. If we overload the health care system we lose a lot more people.

This thing spreads fast (and can be transmitted when you are asymptomatic). Left unchecked it will overwhelm our health care system quickly as it has in Italy and China, etc.

Currently, social distancing and quarantines are our only tools to slow this thing down. The math and modeling tells us this is much worse than H1N1...by an order of magnitude.

[ixtap]

"From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases..., 274,304 hospitalizations..., and 12,469 deaths in the United States due to the (H1N1) virus."  source:  https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

These numbers are for the United States only, not worldwide.  Recall this was immediately after the 2008 stock collapse which was the result of years of grift in the mortgage industry and the shaking of banking in this country.  You can just imagine what would have happened if we had voluntarily tanked our economy even further back then by shutting down business and sports. 

So why don't we all recall the horrible scourge of swine flu?  60 million sick and 275K hospitalized, holy shit! 
           

Who doesn't recall H1N1?? Why wouldn't we take measures to insure that this doesn't become as bad?? Or worse, given that COVID 19 seems to have a higher hospitalization and death rates?

[mm1970]

With the extreme measures taken and increased hygiene awareness the disease spread will slow and can end faster.  This is great news.  Fortunately the economy was robust enough this time to absorb this temporary event and there is no reason to think people will not be back working and patronizing businesses again within just a few weeks.  Excellent.  Who profits if they do not?  Really, who is heavily invested in keeping the panic hot?  Once you answer honestly, downshift and refuse to participate in the frenzy.   

This is meaningless if people don't DO it.  Birthday parties, teenage dances and fun times, travel for fun because "hey, I'm only 30!"  That's not gonna help reduce the spread.

[DadJokes]

I see a lot of selfish thinking underneath that post. Read up on what has been happening in Italy. That could be the U.S. in about 2 weeks. Sorry grandma - we have to let someone younger have the ventilator. Implying there is a conspiracy at work and that this is no big deal is not helpful for anyone.

Read something that doesn't play into Donald "I didn't know the flu kills people" Trump's narrative:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-h1n1-swine-flu-pandemic-spin/

Even our brilliant MMM Pete didn't know the flu killed that many as noted in his March 3rd post.  Lots and lots and lots of talking heads have said they had no idea there are so many annual flu deaths.  It looks bad when Trump says it though because he is supposed to be above that to build public confidence and when the media is looking to criticize his ice cream scoop count they have zero problem making that some gross misstep of doom.  They now demand a perfection not similarly expected of an Obama administration back then because they can get all kinds of mileage out of it today.   

I wonder what happened in Italy in 2009-10, that would be an interesting comparison and I wonder if it is knowable.  The main issue seems to be that everyone was sick at one time vs. the count total and our aggressive actions will certainly stop that.  275K hospitalized all at once would be tough, but over a year and across our huge geography made it do-able.  The entire country of Italy could fit in Texas' backpack.       

I never said it was a conspiracy, there is not some cabal meeting in the shadows deciding how to make us puppets.  I am saying there is a social change that has happened and it is not good.  We need to be aware of this and go the other way.   

"In Italy, the H1N1 pandemic was responsible for 260 reported deaths caused by complications stemming from pandemic influenza and 5.600.000 cases of influenza-like illness between week 31 of 2009 and week 17 of 2010."

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4568430/

Current numbers coming out of Italy for CV (per Al-Jazeera): 27,980 infections and 2,158 deaths

Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/toll-rises-coronavirus-tightens-global-grip-live-updates-200315231500487.html

It would appear that H1N1 was not nearly as deadly in Italy, based on my (very) limited research.

It certainly does feel like this has been blown way out of proportion. In my county, schools are closed until at least April, despite the fact that we don't yet have any confirmed cases. However, since I can't do anything about that, I'll just take part in "social distancing" and enjoy the cheaper stocks, since my job is allowing work from home and is in an industry that won't be affected by a recession.

[frugalnacho]

With the extreme measures taken and increased hygiene awareness the disease spread will slow and can end faster.  This is great news.  Fortunately the economy was robust enough this time to absorb this temporary event and there is no reason to think people will not be back working and patronizing businesses again within just a few weeks.  Excellent.  Who profits if they do not?  Really, who is heavily invested in keeping the panic hot?  Once you answer honestly, downshift and refuse to participate in the frenzy.   

This is meaningless if people don't DO it.  Birthday parties, teenage dances and fun times, travel for fun because "hey, I'm only 30!"  That's not gonna help reduce the spread.

Lots of baby showers going on right now.  People are PISSED that the venues are canceling on them, and they are finding alternate venues and insisting the shower still go on.  I mean they made invitations AND blew up balloons, you expect them just to cancel the shower? 

[Omy]

Which is crazy since pregnant women are high risk if they get this virus.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I see a lot of selfish thinking underneath that post. Read up on what has been happening in Italy. That could be the U.S. in about 2 weeks. Sorry grandma - we have to let someone younger have the ventilator. Implying there is a conspiracy at work and that this is no big deal is not helpful for anyone.

Read something that doesn't play into Donald "I didn't know the flu kills people" Trump's narrative:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-h1n1-swine-flu-pandemic-spin/

Even our brilliant MMM Pete didn't know the flu killed that many as noted in his March 3rd post.  Lots and lots and lots of talking heads have said they had no idea there are so many annual flu deaths.  It looks bad when Trump says it though because he is supposed to be above that to build public confidence and when the media is looking to criticize his ice cream scoop count they have zero problem making that some gross misstep of doom.  They now demand a perfection not similarly expected of an Obama administration back then because they can get all kinds of mileage out of it today.   

I wonder what happened in Italy in 2009-10, that would be an interesting comparison and I wonder if it is knowable.  The main issue seems to be that everyone was sick at one time vs. the count total and our aggressive actions will certainly stop that.  275K hospitalized all at once would be tough, but over a year and across our huge geography made it do-able.  The entire country of Italy could fit in Texas' backpack.       

I never said it was a conspiracy, there is not some cabal meeting in the shadows deciding how to make us puppets.  I am saying there is a social change that has happened and it is not good.  We need to be aware of this and go the other way.   

"In Italy, the H1N1 pandemic was responsible for 260 reported deaths caused by complications stemming from pandemic influenza and 5.600.000 cases of influenza-like illness between week 31 of 2009 and week 17 of 2010."

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4568430/

Current numbers coming out of Italy for CV (per Al-Jazeera): 27,980 infections and 2,158 deaths

Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/toll-rises-coronavirus-tightens-global-grip-live-updates-200315231500487.html

It would appear that H1N1 was not nearly as deadly in Italy, based on my (very) limited research.

It certainly does feel like this has been blown way out of proportion. In my county, schools are closed until at least April, despite the fact that we don't yet have any confirmed cases. However, since I can't do anything about that, I'll just take part in "social distancing" and enjoy the cheaper stocks, since my job is allowing work from home and is in an industry that won't be affected by a recession.

The idea is that you don't get any confirmed cases. I think the USA is in for a very rough ride. You may find your attitude changes quite a lot, quite rapidly, quite soon.

[dandarc]

It certainly does feel like this has been blown way out of proportion. In my county, schools are closed until at least April, despite the fact that we don't yet have any confirmed cases. However, since I can't do anything about that, I'll just take part in "social distancing" and enjoy the cheaper stocks, since my job is allowing work from home and is in an industry that won't be affected by a recession.

Have they actually tested anyone in your county yet? I know that in my county, they hadn't until very recently, maybe still haven't. And my county is home to the capital of the 3rd most populous state in the country.

Incidentally, coupled with the rapid escalation to "we don't have enough ventilators" in Italy, this realization at how poor the information in the US has been got out, and the collective realization was "wow - this is going to be much worse than we've been told".

[frugalnacho]

Which is crazy since pregnant women are high risk if they get this virus.

Well this particular one is anti-vax anyway, so she clearly doesn't understand risk/reward that well.

[dogboyslim]

.... However, since I can't do anything about that, I'll just take part in "social distancing" and enjoy the cheaper stocks, since my job is allowing work from home and is in an industry that won't be affected by a recession.

Yep.  Same boat here.  Should be interesting next week.  My wife and I both working from home plus 3 kids in "virtual" school.  I hope people are still working at my ISP!

[Fish Sweet]

More on the topic of COVID-19 stupidity, it's nice (not) to see all the anti-Asian racists come crawling out of the woodwork at the slightest excuse to show their asses.

Yup, I'm glad that all my Chinese family is currently in Singapore where it is still safe to be Chinese. Also, coincidentally, they have the Covid-19 situation under control, at least for now.

With that said, there was plenty of food at my local Asian market over the weekend. If your local big box store is stripped please give your local Asian market a try.

I am actually shocked that anybody would use this as an excuse to vent racism. In my opinion no single chinese person (even patient zero) has any responsibility for this mess that we are in right now.

You could argue that chinese food-market practices are what caused this mess (according to latest scientific consensus) and that if China as a country wishes to maintain good relations with the rest of the world some changes might be nessecary.

But that is a complicated topic that will likely not be resolved over the next few weeks. But I sure hope we see cultural and legal changes that will make it far less likely that such a situation occurs again.

Unfortunately, good sense and human sympathy is just truly lacking in a huge part of the population.

Another haha-not-funny coronavirus racism incident:  A friend of mine works at an organization that processes applications from many folks in other countries as well as from foreign nationals residing in the United States.  These are important, time sensitive documents that people take great pains to prepare, as incorrect preparation and/or lack of completion can have bad consequences (comparable to say, people applying for visas to work in the US or to extend their current working visas.)

One of their coworkers has taken it upon himself to "quarantine" all applications coming from China, or from anyone who has a sufficiently "Chinese" sounding name, and place them in a separate location for a week or more.  He also will only touch these documents (that have been delayed for a week) with gloves, and a great deal of anxious mewling about how he's going to get Covid-19 from contact with these Chinese papers.

On the plus(???) side, he's horrifically inept and slow at the job, so his much more competent coworkers are sometimes able to "rescue" the applications assigned to him from "quarantine" and get to them before him.

[Hadilly]

Holy fuck. It just got real in the SF Bay area: https://www.sfchronicle.com/local-politics/article/Bay-Area-must-shelter-in-place-Only-15135014.php

[frugalnacho]

PHoly fuck. It just got real in the SF Bay area: https://www.sfchronicle.com/local-politics/article/Bay-Area-must-shelter-in-place-Only-15135014.php

Link is dead yo