Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?

[mwulff]

Another sit-rep from Denmark:

- The borders are being closed as of tomorrow at noon. Only good and other essential travel will be allowed to cross the border.
- Corona is spreading but we are trying to limit it.
- This virus is going to get nasty and people will die.
- We are trying to minimize the peak load on our hospitals and doctors so that we have the capacity to put people in intensive care when they actually need them.

It is a weird experience. The entire country has gone quiet and we are all just waiting with bathed breath.

This will get bad but we are helping one another and people are rallying behind the government.

/Wulff

[lemanfan]

Another sit-rep from Denmark:

- The borders are being closed as of tomorrow at noon. Only good and other essential travel will be allowed to cross the border.
- Corona is spreading but we are trying to limit it.
- This virus is going to get nasty and people will die.
- We are trying to minimize the peak load on our hospitals and doctors so that we have the capacity to put people in intensive care when they actually need them.

It is a weird experience. The entire country has gone quiet and we are all just waiting with bathed breath.

This will get bad but we are helping one another and people are rallying behind the government.

/Wulff

Different details but similar vibe in Sweden.

[GodlessCommie]

Another sit-rep from Denmark:

- The borders are being closed as of tomorrow at noon. Only good and other essential travel will be allowed to cross the border.
- Corona is spreading but we are trying to limit it.
- This virus is going to get nasty and people will die.
- We are trying to minimize the peak load on our hospitals and doctors so that we have the capacity to put people in intensive care when they actually need them.

It is a weird experience. The entire country has gone quiet and we are all just waiting with bathed breath.

This will get bad but we are helping one another and people are rallying behind the government.

/Wulff

Very comforting to hear that people are still able to collectively act for the common interest somewhere.

[GodlessCommie]

Yeah I don't think so. This virus has caused a minuscule number of deaths outside China. The death rate for healthy people under 40 is 0.2%. It does not worry me in the slightest.

"People who are not like me will die, and that's ok"

[Buffaloski Boris]

Sitrep from the festering sore of the mid-Atlantic (AKA Virginia):
-All schools shut down.
-Lots of folks going out on WFH. No rhyme or reason to it. Basically office by office.   
-The breweries seem to be pretty full. Key cultural litmus test here. When the going gets tough, the tough get ripped. 
-Shelves at markets not stripped, but getting there. 

[happyuk]

I think there's a reality check required.  I'm almost certain I'm at the arse end of a covid-19 infection myself. I'm NOT a statistic in the UK official account of the state of things covid-19.  I did what a lot of people would do, I got ill, and I clobbered it with my armoury of scrupulous hygiene, Vit C/D/Cod liver oil, keeping warm and keeping my head down and avoiding others. I've not called a doctor or been admitted to hospital. The state has no idea about me at all.  If I'm doing that, so are thousands of others. None of them are counted in the official stats.

And besides, the shuffling of pieces on the board are not a realistic protection strategy for the mass population. It's a protection strategy for the 'system', itself. The current actions are at least 2 months too late to be effective as bottom line citizen protection. I'll guess that people high up in the UK government already know that.

It's pretty obvious to me that covid-19 is now rampant here in UK. But, it's also pretty obvious to me also that it's not killing any more people than other rampant viruses here do. I assume all that is pretty obvious to the government too. Even their advice says "stay home and get through it on your own". Of course, they won't come right out and say the virus is everywhere and thousands of people are already dealing with it. Their advisers won't let them, for system crisis reasons, considering how hyped the biased media shit-show has made the whole subject.

Best think of covid 19 as this years cold-season and get on with it. That's pretty much what the UK government is doing anyway. The rest is hype-crisis-stabilisation. The supply chain crisis is a whole other story though.

[Boofinator]

I think there's a reality check required.

*****

But, it's also pretty obvious to me also that it's not killing any more people than other rampant viruses here do. I assume all that is pretty obvious to the government too. Even their advice says "stay home and get through it on your own". Of course, they won't come right out and say the virus is everywhere and thousands of people are already dealing with it. Their advisers won't let them, for system crisis reasons, considering how hyped the biased media shit-show has made the whole subject.

Best think of covid 19 as this years cold-season and get on with it.

Reality check: Your deductive reasoning skills appear to be flawed. Your method appears to take a personal anecdote (using self-diagnosis, no less) and applying it to the population. Typically, deductive reasoning tries to use the available evidence to come to a statistical conclusion, and then one should make decisions based on this conclusion. Here, the evidence shows covid-19 to be hundreds if not thousands of times more deadly than the typical cold (I can't find actual statistics on life-years lost to the common cold, it is so rare and irrelevant for most people). If you've even browsed the news in the last couple of weeks, you'd see that hospitals in Italy and China have been swamped, with people left to die because equipment is not available, all because people like you buried their heads in the sand while the evidence was mounting that this is not the typical cold. Many other countries (including the U.S. and U.K.) are where Italy was two weeks ago.

Now, if you'd like to take another tack based on the actual evidence, such as "I'm cool with 10-20% of the elderly dying this year, it's a small sacrifice for the economic good", come out and say it. It's way more respectable, plus it has the benefit of actually being based in reality.

[American GenX]

I think there's a reality check required.  I'm almost certain I'm at the arse end of a covid-19 infection myself. I'm NOT a statistic in the UK official account of the state of things covid-19.  I did what a lot of people would do, I got ill, and I clobbered it with my armoury of scrupulous hygiene, Vit C/D/Cod liver oil, keeping warm and keeping my head down and avoiding others. I've not called a doctor or been admitted to hospital. The state has no idea about me at all.  If I'm doing that, so are thousands of others. None of them are counted in the official stats.

It seems like everyone with a cough, cold, or flu thinks he has COVID-19.  Unless you were tested positive for COVID-19, then you should not be included in the statistics.

[Hirondelle]

Yeah I don't think so. This virus has caused a minuscule number of deaths outside China. The death rate for healthy people under 40 is 0.2%. It does not worry me in the slightest.

"People who are not like me will die, and that's ok"

Currently 2625 deaths outside of China, over half of that in Italy but Iran, Spain and France are rapidly coming up too! Still no worries about any people over 60 you may care about? 

[American GenX]

Yeah I don't think so. This virus has caused a minuscule number of deaths outside China. The death rate for healthy people under 40 is 0.2%. It does not worry me in the slightest.

"People who are not like me will die, and that's ok"

Yes, that is pretty sad.  And it's attitudes like that which will keep many young healthy people from self-quarantining and staying away from large crowds, therefore spreading it to the more vulnerable.

[Sibley]

Yeah I don't think so. This virus has caused a minuscule number of deaths outside China. The death rate for healthy people under 40 is 0.2%. It does not worry me in the slightest.

"People who are not like me will die, and that's ok"

Yes, that is pretty sad.  And it's attitudes like that which will keep many young healthy people from self-quarantining and staying away from large crowds, therefore spreading it to the more vulnerable.

It's also not quite adequate. This is half-assed research (feel free to do better):

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/coronavirus-covid-19-q-and-a-protect-ourselves-vaccine

"What underlying conditions pose the biggest risk if you contract the virus?
The first thing to note is that most of the data we have about Covid-19 is from China. These indicate that heart disease, followed by diabetes, hypertension – high blood pressure – chronic lung disease and finally some cancers were the main risk factors."

Ok. In the US: (source: lazy googling)
-About 75 million have hypertension
-In 2016, 28.2 million were diagnosed with heart disease
-34.2 million have diabetes
-more than 35 million have chronic lung disease (asthma, COPD, chronic bronchitis, emphysema, etc)

This isn't just the elderly. And I really doubt that those who are obese or overweight will count as "healthy". If we have a LOT of people getting sick, there are going to be a lot of people who need help. The US does not have the medical capacity to handle it. Hospitals get stressed with normal flu season.

[Boofinator]

Johns Hopkins has this website for information on case rates :

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Johns Hopkins is by far the best source. WHO and CDC are beyond useless, unless you're after yesterday's data.

And then there were five.... Who will be the last holdout from Coronavirus? Today in Survivor: Coronavirus, the corners of the America battle it out, where Alabama, Alaska, Idaho, Maine, and West Virginia can all still pretend they don't have the virus, at least for another day.

In fairness, who is travelling to Alabama to actually give them the virus?

Alabama residents that have traveled elsewhere and are returning with the virus.

I was in Alabama a couple of weeks ago and when checking into the hotel a bus load of people of Asian origin (and English was clearly not the first language) pulled up to check in to the hotel.  Not sure where they hailed from or how long in the US but Alabama was being visited.   

Well, fine. Everyone just suck the fun out of my joke about how awful Alabama is.

On that point we agree, there probably aren't any cases there bc they don't have two nickels to rub together to buy the test kits (not that many are available anyway).  Until the fed sends kits to AL then there won't be any cases there.

Alabama made it to the final three, but are now out of the running for the bunker of last resistance. Who will win Survivor: Coronavirus? Idaho, where the only proper response to federal encroachment like "coronavirus tests" is to come out with guns blazing, or West Virginia, where spread of coronavirus is much lower than average due to various blood feuds and especially "tight-knit" families?

(J/K)

WV for the win!!!!!! Congrats, West Virginians, you get the consolation prize of knowing that your state is doing a wholly inadequate job of coronavirus testing (along with pretty much everybody else in the U.S.).

[Anette]

I think there's a reality check required.

*****

But, it's also pretty obvious to me also that it's not killing any more people than other rampant viruses here do. I assume all that is pretty obvious to the government too. Even their advice says "stay home and get through it on your own". Of course, they won't come right out and say the virus is everywhere and thousands of people are already dealing with it. Their advisers won't let them, for system crisis reasons, considering how hyped the biased media shit-show has made the whole subject.

Best think of covid 19 as this years cold-season and get on with it.

Reality check: Your deductive reasoning skills appear to be flawed. Your method appears to take a personal anecdote (using self-diagnosis, no less) and applying it to the population. Typically, deductive reasoning tries to use the available evidence to come to a statistical conclusion, and then one should make decisions based on this conclusion. Here, the evidence shows covid-19 to be hundreds if not thousands of times more deadly than the typical cold (I can't find actual statistics on life-years lost to the common cold, it is so rare and irrelevant for most people). If you've even browsed the news in the last couple of weeks, you'd see that hospitals in Italy and China have been swamped, with people left to die because equipment is not available, all because people like you buried their heads in the sand while the evidence was mounting that this is not the typical cold. Many other countries (including the U.S. and U.K.) are where Italy was two weeks ago.

Now, if you'd like to take another tack based on the actual evidence, such as "I'm cool with 10-20% of the elderly dying this year, it's a small sacrifice for the economic good", come out and say it. It's way more respectable, plus it has the benefit of actually being based in reality.

Well it is kind of hard to do anything other than self diagnose if everyone who shows even mild but not severe symptoms is asked to self quarantine and doesn't get tested. And yes, in that sense you do have to consider there may be hundreds of thousands of cases out there which do not get counted. This especially goes for the mild cases which does not make a reliable statistic at all.
And so far I have not seen much evidence that this virus is hundreds of thousands times more dangerous than the flu. How did you come up with that?

[American GenX]

I think there's a reality check required.

*****

But, it's also pretty obvious to me also that it's not killing any more people than other rampant viruses here do. I assume all that is pretty obvious to the government too. Even their advice says "stay home and get through it on your own". Of course, they won't come right out and say the virus is everywhere and thousands of people are already dealing with it. Their advisers won't let them, for system crisis reasons, considering how hyped the biased media shit-show has made the whole subject.

Best think of covid 19 as this years cold-season and get on with it.

Reality check: Your deductive reasoning skills appear to be flawed. Your method appears to take a personal anecdote (using self-diagnosis, no less) and applying it to the population. Typically, deductive reasoning tries to use the available evidence to come to a statistical conclusion, and then one should make decisions based on this conclusion. Here, the evidence shows covid-19 to be hundreds if not thousands of times more deadly than the typical cold (I can't find actual statistics on life-years lost to the common cold, it is so rare and irrelevant for most people). If you've even browsed the news in the last couple of weeks, you'd see that hospitals in Italy and China have been swamped, with people left to die because equipment is not available, all because people like you buried their heads in the sand while the evidence was mounting that this is not the typical cold. Many other countries (including the U.S. and U.K.) are where Italy was two weeks ago.

Now, if you'd like to take another tack based on the actual evidence, such as "I'm cool with 10-20% of the elderly dying this year, it's a small sacrifice for the economic good", come out and say it. It's way more respectable, plus it has the benefit of actually being based in reality.

And so far I have not seen much evidence that this virus is hundreds of thousands times more dangerous than the flu. How did you come up with that?

You are confusing the common cold with the flu.  And you are confusing "hundreds if not thousands" with "hundreds of thousands".  These are critical distinctions.

[familyandfarming]

This might be construed as a goofy question, but please bear with me. My daughter lives two states away and works at a hospital and has two in daycare. Announced Friday, the schools in her county are closed but her daycare attached to a school is still open. My state has very few public school closings.

When would you leave to be there when/if the daycare is ultimately closed? Should I leave tomorrow (Sunday) or wait a few more days? Her position at the hospital is one that requires that she be there.

[frugalnacho]

In Michigan they announced all schools would be closed and we got an email from the school that all schools were closed, but the daycare connected is remaining open.  A day later we got another email letting us the daycare portion is also shut down for the next 3 weeks. 

[Sibley]

This might be construed as a goofy question, but please bear with me. My daughter lives two states away and works at a hospital and has two in daycare. Announced Friday, the schools in her county are closed but her daycare attached to a school is still open. My state has very few public school closings.

When would you leave to be there when/if the daycare is ultimately closed? Should I leave tomorrow (Sunday) or wait a few more days? Her position at the hospital is one that requires that she be there.

I would ask your daughter to call the day care and see if have any guidance. They may not, but it's worth asking.

I would also pack now, as much as you can at least. Do some math on how long it'll take you to get there. Try to streamline whatever is needed at your house so when you get the call, you can get on the road asap if needed. Check with your daughter on her work schedule, and if she could manage child care for however long it would take you to drive there. (Neighbor/friend/etc.) I know that I would be willing to help out in a pinch in this situation, I'm sure others would be.

[familyandfarming]

All good advice! I’m packing now and planning on leaving tomorrow. My plan is to also pack some food to eat on the way and only stop for gas.

[Abe]

I am considered essential personnel at a state safety net hospital, and the county has shut down the schools. As a result, we are stopping non-urgent clinic visits and will finish all currently scheduled non-urgent operations but not add any in preparation for a surge in the next few weeks. This may relieve some burden by reducing hours we need people at the hospitals. Also, our hospital is making some provisions for staff who would suffer undue hardship, and are essential, by expanding capacity of the daycare temporarily if needed. That being said, a sudden influx of new petri dishes would not be good for anyone. I would get prepared to move in with your grandkids for a month or so.

[former player]

All good advice! I’m packing now and planning on leaving tomorrow. My plan is to also pack some food to eat on the way and only stop for gas.

Only go if you are not in a risk group.

If your daughter's employer requires her to be present when she has no day care then it is her daughter's employer's job to provide care for her child.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

All good advice! I’m packing now and planning on leaving tomorrow. My plan is to also pack some food to eat on the way and only stop for gas.

Only go if you are not in a risk group.

If your daughter's employer requires her to be present when she has no day care then it is her daughter's employer's job to provide care for her child.

Really? That seems pretty doubtful. That wouldn't be the case in NZ, and we have way more user friendly employee protections than you guys do.

And to answer the question, go before they shut down the options to move around freely. Better that you're stuck with your daughter than stuck apart.

[former player]

All good advice! I’m packing now and planning on leaving tomorrow. My plan is to also pack some food to eat on the way and only stop for gas.

Only go if you are not in a risk group.

If your daughter's employer requires her to be present when she has no day care then it is her daughter's employer's job to provide care for her child.

Really? That seems pretty doubtful. That wouldn't be the case in NZ, and we have way more user friendly employee protections than you guys do.

And to answer the question, go before they shut down the options to move around freely. Better that you're stuck with your daughter than stuck apart.

If an employee has no day care and can't take their child to work then the only option for the employee is to stay home and look after their child, right?  Whether it's been agreed as leave or not, right?   So in those circumstances either the employer provides the child care or the employer doesn't have an employee.  Given that the employer is a hospital and will need their staff to keep coming in they should have made plans for this emergency.  If they haven't then tough luck - there is no requirement for other family members to put themselves at risk because the hospital hasn't done a good job of emergency planning.

[OtherJen]

All good advice! I’m packing now and planning on leaving tomorrow. My plan is to also pack some food to eat on the way and only stop for gas.

Only go if you are not in a risk group.

If your daughter's employer requires her to be present when she has no day care then it is her daughter's employer's job to provide care for her child.

Really? That seems pretty doubtful. That wouldn't be the case in NZ, and we have way more user friendly employee protections than you guys do.

And to answer the question, go before they shut down the options to move around freely. Better that you're stuck with your daughter than stuck apart.

If an employee has no day care and can't take their child to work then the only option for the employee is to stay home and look after their child, right?  Whether it's been agreed as leave or not, right?   So in those circumstances either the employer provides the child care or the employer doesn't have an employee.  Given that the employer is a hospital and will need their staff to keep coming in they should have made plans for this emergency.  If they haven't then tough luck - there is no requirement for other family members to put themselves at risk because the hospital hasn't done a good job of emergency planning.

You're not in the USA, right? Employers here generally do not give a shit about their employees' childcare situations. Hence why so many people are panicking as schools shut down for weeks.

[former player]

All good advice! I’m packing now and planning on leaving tomorrow. My plan is to also pack some food to eat on the way and only stop for gas.

Only go if you are not in a risk group.

If your daughter's employer requires her to be present when she has no day care then it is her daughter's employer's job to provide care for her child.

Really? That seems pretty doubtful. That wouldn't be the case in NZ, and we have way more user friendly employee protections than you guys do.

And to answer the question, go before they shut down the options to move around freely. Better that you're stuck with your daughter than stuck apart.

If an employee has no day care and can't take their child to work then the only option for the employee is to stay home and look after their child, right?  Whether it's been agreed as leave or not, right?   So in those circumstances either the employer provides the child care or the employer doesn't have an employee.  Given that the employer is a hospital and will need their staff to keep coming in they should have made plans for this emergency.  If they haven't then tough luck - there is no requirement for other family members to put themselves at risk because the hospital hasn't done a good job of emergency planning.

You're not in the USA, right? Employers here generally do not give a shit about their employees' childcare situations. Hence why so many people are panicking as schools shut down for weeks.

No, I'm not in the USA.  But if employers want employees to turn up to work in an emergency they either make it possible for them to turn up or they expect them not to turn up.  I don't see any other outcome, and certainly employees have to do what is best for them and their families not what is best for their employer.

[MayDay]

This might be construed as a goofy question, but please bear with me. My daughter lives two states away and works at a hospital and has two in daycare. Announced Friday, the schools in her county are closed but her daycare attached to a school is still open. My state has very few public school closings.

When would you leave to be there when/if the daycare is ultimately closed? Should I leave tomorrow (Sunday) or wait a few more days? Her position at the hospital is one that requires that she be there.

If she is likely to be exposed, I'd consider bringing her kids to your house and isolating at home with them to allow her to work and rest with no stress.

[Morning Glory]

My state and county have cited the hospital worker situation as a reason for not shutting schools (in addition to the lunch situation). I am a little worried about this because my hospital takes care of many immune compromised patients, and if everyone called in sick for every runny nose there would be no staff. From what I know of the virus it is very mild in kids and indistinguishable from a normal cold. The problem is there are so many other things going around that it is difficult to determine when to stay home from work and for how long, if a kid gets a snotty nose and gives it to the parent. There is also a punitive system of having to use vacation if you are sick for less than a week, and also potential job loss for calling in too many times in a year.

For the patients it has got to be worse because they will die if they don't get their treatments, but need to go to a hospital with lots of potentially infected people to get them. They have for the most part been surprisingly blase about the whole thing.

We have only had a couple confirmed cases so far and no known community spread, so time will tell. We have more testing going on than most places too.

[ender]

My state and county have cited the hospital worker situation as a reason for not shutting schools (in addition to the lunch situation). I am a little worried about this because my hospital takes care of many immune compromised patients, and if everyone called in sick for every runny nose there would be no staff. From what I know of the virus it is very mild in kids and indistinguishable from a normal cold. The problem is there are so many other things going around that it is difficult to determine when to stay home from work and for how long, if a kid gets a snotty nose and gives it to the parent. There is also a punitive system of having to use vacation if you are sick for less than a week, and also potential job loss for calling in too many times in a year.

For the patients it has got to be worse because they will die if they don't get their treatments, but need to go to a hospital with lots of potentially infected people to get them. They have for the most part been surprisingly blase about the whole thing.

We have only had a couple confirmed cases so far and no known community spread, so time will tell. We have more testing going on than most places too.

This situation has existed for a long time, with people having to decide between getting paid and the health of their coworkers.

It'll (hopefully) become more visible in light of a situation like coronavirus but...

[American GenX]

My state and county have cited the hospital worker situation as a reason for not shutting schools (in addition to the lunch situation). I am a little worried about this because my hospital takes care of many immune compromised patients, and if everyone called in sick for every runny nose there would be no staff. From what I know of the virus it is very mild in kids and indistinguishable from a normal cold. The problem is there are so many other things going around that it is difficult to determine when to stay home from work and for how long, if a kid gets a snotty nose and gives it to the parent. There is also a punitive system of having to use vacation if you are sick for less than a week, and also potential job loss for calling in too many times in a year.

For the patients it has got to be worse because they will die if they don't get their treatments, but need to go to a hospital with lots of potentially infected people to get them. They have for the most part been surprisingly blase about the whole thing.

We have only had a couple confirmed cases so far and no known community spread, so time will tell. We have more testing going on than most places too.

This situation has existed for a long time, with people having to decide between getting paid and the health of their coworkers.

It'll (hopefully) become more visible in light of a situation like coronavirus but...

Or, if they do get paid, there is still that looming threat of using sicks days and having a mark on your record, suspension, or termination from employment.  There's also that feeling of guilt that you're leaving more work for others or letting others down, and that they are looking down on you for not going to work.  And then, some people get PTO, so they would prefer to use their PTO for when they're feeling good as vacation days rather than "wasting" them when they're sick.

[MayDay]

If nothing else, I hope we go back to systems of vacation days and sick days that you lose if you don't actually use.

[Dancin'Dog]

Don't ask Trump for a solution.   We know how he likes to treat children. 

[American GenX]

If nothing else, I hope we go back to systems of vacation days and sick days that you lose if you don't actually use.

Where I work, we lose vacation days if we don't use them, but our sick days are cumulative, year after year, and we actually get a bonus if we choose to exchange back sick days for dollars.  And despite being able to rack up 100's of hours of sick time, we can't use more than 3 days in a 6 month period, or there will be a verbal reprimand, then a written one if it happens again, and it can lead to termination.  But, they say, "don't come to work if you're sick."

[Bloop Bloop]

If nothing else, I hope we go back to systems of vacation days and sick days that you lose if you don't actually use.

This is how it works in Australia. At my last employer I used something like 95 sick days across 8 years of service, ha ha. Including one stretch of 42 days in a row whilst recovering from fairly routine surgery.

After I became self-employed I don't think I've ever taken a single sick day. Amazing how that works...

[Morning Glory]

There is also the dilemma in healthcare that leaving an understaffed unit can potentially cause unsafe patient care. This is combined with conflicting information about signs and symptoms of the virus. Currently we are only isolating patients if they are febrile, and giving staff vague instructions to stay home if they are sick.

We normally have a kiosk with masks and hand sanitizer, with a sign telling patients and visitors to put on a mask if they have a cough or cold. Lately the masks have been disappearing so there is now a sign directing them to ask for a mask at the desk, thus getting within 6 feet of the desk staff. The hospital and local nursing homes are limiting visitors now at least.

[OtherJen]

There is also the dilemma in healthcare that leaving an understaffed unit can potentially cause unsafe patient care. This is combined with conflicting information about signs and symptoms of the virus. Currently we are only isolating patients if they are febrile, and giving staff vague instructions to stay home if they are sick.

We normally have a kiosk with masks and hand sanitizer, with a sign telling patients and visitors to put on a mask if they have a cough or cold. Lately the masks have been disappearing so there is now a sign directing them to ask for a mask at the desk, thus getting within 6 feet of the desk staff. The hospital and local nursing homes are limiting visitors now at least.

As far as I know, all nursing homes in our area are blocking non-essential visitors. I think it's the only responsible thing to do.

[frugalnacho]

I have a cousin that works in Detroit metro airport and comes into contact with thousands of international visitors. She works as a translator between English and Japanese.  She's got all the symptoms of covid-19 and went to the Dr. They sent her to the drive through testing facility set up to test for coronavirus. They performed a test for the coronavirus and sent her home with instructions to self quarantine.  That was a couple of days ago.  She just got contacted with the results which were "uh, we decided not to test you after all. You're young and will get through this, just continue your quarantine. we have limited tests and need to save them for people that actually need it"

So maybe the official numbers in the USA will stay very low? Can't have any official positive cases if you don't actually test anyone.

[SwordGuy]

I have a cousin that works in Detroit metro airport and comes into contact with thousands of international visitors. She works as a translator between English and Japanese.  She's got all the symptoms of covid-19 and went to the Dr. They sent her to the drive through testing facility set up to test for coronavirus. They performed a test for the coronavirus and sent her home with instructions to self quarantine.  That was a couple of days ago.  She just got contacted with the results which were "uh, we decided not to test you after all. You're young and will get through this, just continue your quarantine. we have limited tests and need to save them for people that actually need it"

So maybe the official numbers in the USA will stay very low? Can't have any official positive cases if you don't actually test anyone.

Reports are coming out that the Trump administration policy has been to avoid doing things that would raise the confirmed count.

[OtherJen]

I have a cousin that works in Detroit metro airport and comes into contact with thousands of international visitors. She works as a translator between English and Japanese.  She's got all the symptoms of covid-19 and went to the Dr. They sent her to the drive through testing facility set up to test for coronavirus. They performed a test for the coronavirus and sent her home with instructions to self quarantine.  That was a couple of days ago.  She just got contacted with the results which were "uh, we decided not to test you after all. You're young and will get through this, just continue your quarantine. we have limited tests and need to save them for people that actually need it"

So maybe the official numbers in the USA will stay very low? Can't have any official positive cases if you don't actually test anyone.

JFC. Well, I guess that's one way to keep Wayne County's official case number lower.

[American GenX]

I have a cousin that works in Detroit metro airport and comes into contact with thousands of international visitors. She works as a translator between English and Japanese.  She's got all the symptoms of covid-19 and went to the Dr. They sent her to the drive through testing facility set up to test for coronavirus. They performed a test for the coronavirus and sent her home with instructions to self quarantine.  That was a couple of days ago.  She just got contacted with the results which were "uh, we decided not to test you after all. You're young and will get through this, just continue your quarantine. we have limited tests and need to save them for people that actually need it"

So maybe the official numbers in the USA will stay very low? Can't have any official positive cases if you don't actually test anyone.

Reports are coming out that the Trump administration policy has been to avoid doing things that would raise the confirmed count.

Well, I have no doubt on that.  I remember he didn't want the cruise ship (with COVID-19 passengers/crew) to dock in the U.S. because he didn't want it to "hurt our numbers" because "it wasn't our fault".

[Steeze]

All good advice! I’m packing now and planning on leaving tomorrow. My plan is to also pack some food to eat on the way and only stop for gas.

Only go if you are not in a risk group.

If your daughter's employer requires her to be present when she has no day care then it is her daughter's employer's job to provide care for her child.

Really? That seems pretty doubtful. That wouldn't be the case in NZ, and we have way more user friendly employee protections than you guys do.

And to answer the question, go before they shut down the options to move around freely. Better that you're stuck with your daughter than stuck apart.

If an employee has no day care and can't take their child to work then the only option for the employee is to stay home and look after their child, right?  Whether it's been agreed as leave or not, right?   So in those circumstances either the employer provides the child care or the employer doesn't have an employee.  Given that the employer is a hospital and will need their staff to keep coming in they should have made plans for this emergency.  If they haven't then tough luck - there is no requirement for other family members to put themselves at risk because the hospital hasn't done a good job of emergency planning.

You're not in the USA, right? Employers here generally do not give a shit about their employees' childcare situations. Hence why so many people are panicking as schools shut down for weeks.

No, I'm not in the USA.  But if employers want employees to turn up to work in an emergency they either make it possible for them to turn up or they expect them not to turn up.  I don't see any other outcome, and certainly employees have to do what is best for them and their families not what is best for their employer.

LOL - I actually laughed out loud when I read this. "employer's job to provide childcare" hahaha, must be from Europe. This is the USA bud. Our entire system is set up to be as profitable as possible. The only responsibility is to maintain minimum safety standards and provide minimum levels of health insurance.

[OtherJen]

All good advice! I’m packing now and planning on leaving tomorrow. My plan is to also pack some food to eat on the way and only stop for gas.

Only go if you are not in a risk group.

If your daughter's employer requires her to be present when she has no day care then it is her daughter's employer's job to provide care for her child.

Really? That seems pretty doubtful. That wouldn't be the case in NZ, and we have way more user friendly employee protections than you guys do.

And to answer the question, go before they shut down the options to move around freely. Better that you're stuck with your daughter than stuck apart.

If an employee has no day care and can't take their child to work then the only option for the employee is to stay home and look after their child, right?  Whether it's been agreed as leave or not, right?   So in those circumstances either the employer provides the child care or the employer doesn't have an employee.  Given that the employer is a hospital and will need their staff to keep coming in they should have made plans for this emergency.  If they haven't then tough luck - there is no requirement for other family members to put themselves at risk because the hospital hasn't done a good job of emergency planning.

You're not in the USA, right? Employers here generally do not give a shit about their employees' childcare situations. Hence why so many people are panicking as schools shut down for weeks.

No, I'm not in the USA.  But if employers want employees to turn up to work in an emergency they either make it possible for them to turn up or they expect them not to turn up.  I don't see any other outcome, and certainly employees have to do what is best for them and their families not what is best for their employer.

LOL - I actually laughed out loud when I read this. "employer's job to provide childcare" hahaha, must be from Europe. This is the USA bud. Our entire system is set up to be as profitable as possible. The only responsibility is to maintain minimum safety standards and provide minimum levels of health insurance.

Yep. Especially if you work in a “right-to-work” state.

[SunnyDays]

Even in Canada, the employer has no responsibility to ensure you have child care either.  Where I used to work, we took turns being on call nights and week-ends, and were told straight up to make arrangements for kids in case of call-out.  Refusing to go out just wouldn't be tolerated.

[former player]

Right.  So if an employee leaves their kids home alone that's a criminal offence?  Or at least a potential intervention by social services?  If the employer wants the employee to come in to work and the employee has no available childcare, what happens?  Let's suppose the employee is a good little mustachian and has FU money.  Either the employer solves the child care problem or they are short a vital employee, right?

[Morning Glory]

Our school district just announced that they are going to close later this week but will provide limited child care for children of healthcare and emergency workers. I'm not sure what daycare centers will do yet.

[Paul der Krake]

Right.  So if an employee leaves their kids home alone that's a criminal offence?  Or at least a potential intervention by social services?  If the employer wants the employee to come in to work and the employee has no available childcare, what happens?  Let's suppose the employee is a good little mustachian and has FU money.  Either the employer solves the child care problem or they are short a vital employee, right?

The employee makes a choice, and lives with the consequences. You know, pretty standard adulting stuff.

[former player]

Right.  So if an employee leaves their kids home alone that's a criminal offence?  Or at least a potential intervention by social services?  If the employer wants the employee to come in to work and the employee has no available childcare, what happens?  Let's suppose the employee is a good little mustachian and has FU money.  Either the employer solves the child care problem or they are short a vital employee, right?

The employee makes a choice, and lives with the consequences. You know, pretty standard adulting stuff.

And the employer doesn't have anyone doing the work.  No problem then.

[Paul der Krake]

Right.  So if an employee leaves their kids home alone that's a criminal offence?  Or at least a potential intervention by social services?  If the employer wants the employee to come in to work and the employee has no available childcare, what happens?  Let's suppose the employee is a good little mustachian and has FU money.  Either the employer solves the child care problem or they are short a vital employee, right?

The employee makes a choice, and lives with the consequences. You know, pretty standard adulting stuff.

And the employer doesn't have anyone doing the work.  No problem then.

You realize:
0) not all employees are critical
1) not all employees have children
2) not all employees who have children have young children who need watching
3) not all employees who have young children who need watching have no relatives, spouses, neighbors, or friends who can help in a bind

A well-run business should do fine without this subsection of the workforce for a while.

[American GenX]

Right.  So if an employee leaves their kids home alone that's a criminal offence?  Or at least a potential intervention by social services?  If the employer wants the employee to come in to work and the employee has no available childcare, what happens?  Let's suppose the employee is a good little mustachian and has FU money.  Either the employer solves the child care problem or they are short a vital employee, right?

The employee makes a choice, and lives with the consequences. You know, pretty standard adulting stuff.

And the employer doesn't have anyone doing the work.  No problem then.

You realize:
0) not all employees are critical
1) not all employees have children
2) not all employees who have children have young children who need watching
3) not all employees who have young children who need watching have no relatives, spouses, neighbors, or friends who can help in a bind

A well-run business should do fine without this subsection of the workforce for a while.

4) most employees aren't mustachian, so they won't be saying FU and will figure something out.  Employers consider that an employee problem just as with other family issues.  The employer and employees are not a family.

[Morning Glory]

Right.  So if an employee leaves their kids home alone that's a criminal offence?  Or at least a potential intervention by social services?  If the employer wants the employee to come in to work and the employee has no available childcare, what happens?  Let's suppose the employee is a good little mustachian and has FU money.  Either the employer solves the child care problem or they are short a vital employee, right?

The employee makes a choice, and lives with the consequences. You know, pretty standard adulting stuff.

And the employer doesn't have anyone doing the work.  No problem then.

You realize:
0) not all employees are critical
1) not all employees have children
2) not all employees who have children have young children who need watching
3) not all employees who have young children who need watching have no relatives, spouses, neighbors, or friends who can help in a bind

A well-run business should do fine without this subsection of the workforce for a while.

Think of a company town where both spouses and also many of their neighbors and relatives all work at the same place.

[former player]

Right.  So if an employee leaves their kids home alone that's a criminal offence?  Or at least a potential intervention by social services?  If the employer wants the employee to come in to work and the employee has no available childcare, what happens?  Let's suppose the employee is a good little mustachian and has FU money.  Either the employer solves the child care problem or they are short a vital employee, right?

The employee makes a choice, and lives with the consequences. You know, pretty standard adulting stuff.

And the employer doesn't have anyone doing the work.  No problem then.

You realize:
0) not all employees are critical
1) not all employees have children
2) not all employees who have children have young children who need watching
3) not all employees who have young children who need watching have no relatives, spouses, neighbors, or friends who can help in a bind

A well-run business should do fine without this subsection of the workforce for a while.

Agreed, if the employer doesn't need the employee then there's not a problem: the employee can go on (paid or unpaid) leave and look after their kids.  It's if the employee is a critical employee for the employer that it's the employer's problem.  And it's if the employer is saying the employee has to come in whatever that I've been assuming it's because they are business critical.

[Paul der Krake]

Right, but that's the thing. Finding childcare in a emergency is a bit of spectrum. On one extreme you have "well the school is closed, not happening, sorry boss lol". On the other extreme you have calling every person in your contact list, including people you haven't spoken to in years, and begging for them to watch your kids.

No reasonable employer is going to say "leave your kids to fend for themselves and come make widgets come hell or high water". What they're really saying is "please make a real sustained effort to find a solution before you decide it can't be done".

But of course there will be a small number of unreasonable/vindictive employers. Screw them.

Finding emergency childcare is a shitty situation everywhere, not just the US.