Coronavirus - How can people be so incredibly stupid?

[Villanelle]

Just catching up on this thread... @Villanelle, is there an update on your friend and her father?

Yes!  While they are still fighting tremendous fatigue and have a ways to go, he is home from the hospital and both are recovering.  My other friend, nearly 4 weeks in, also has fairly debilitating fatigue and is still spiking fevers, but she too is improving.  Thanks for askin!

[ixtap]

good luck with this:
https://www.sciencealert.com/new-study-suggests-repeated-bouts-of-social-distancing-may-be-needed-until-2022

i can't believe this needed a study. wasn't this readily apparent like even before we ever had a shutdown?

I don't think it was even apparent to most people that social distancing was necessary at all, much less an extended period. So many people seem to talk like they expect everything to go back to normal as soon as they are allowed out of the house. Just a couple of weeks ago, I had someone bugging me to check when a venue was going to reopen and then get huffy and say they would just find another venue if that one couldn't tell me when it would reopen. As if the venue wouldn't like to have an opening date itself!!

[frugalnacho]

good luck with this:
https://www.sciencealert.com/new-study-suggests-repeated-bouts-of-social-distancing-may-be-needed-until-2022

i can't believe this needed a study. wasn't this readily apparent like even before we ever had a shutdown?

Yes, in the same way that we know vaccines work.  Yet people still flood facebook with anti-vax rhetoric, along with flat earth, anti-evolution, climate change, etc.  It's absolutely settled and not really up for debate, but lots of people are in denial.

People around me are still talking about when things are going to be reopened and go "back to normal".  So many people are convinced this is all just a cautious over reaction, and as soon as the governor pulls her head out of her ass and rescinds our stay at home order everything will just "go back to normal".  They talk as if this virus has some shelf life that's about to expire.  We hunker down for a few weeks, and phew, that was tough guys but we did it, virus defeated, let's get back onto our cruise ship and casinos and restaurants, like they are completely unaware that the virus is still ravaging the entire world despite all the lockdowns happening.  Like if you just believe it harder the virus will magically disappear.

[BigMoneyJim]

good luck with this:
https://www.sciencealert.com/new-study-suggests-repeated-bouts-of-social-distancing-may-be-needed-until-2022

i can't believe this needed a study. wasn't this readily apparent like even before we ever had a shutdown?

The emotional pull to get back to "normal", to proceed with life plans is a hard intrinsic pull. I was surprised to find even myself...well, here's a quote from my journal:

So I'm currently trying to adjust my hopes and perception of reality to that time table. That means I probably have at least 8-10 months to live life here before getting serious about moving again. That shouldn't surprise me, but I was a little surprised to find that I think I was internally hoping for just a month or three delay, and that was shaping my hopeful outlook.

What really surprised me is that I was simultaneously strongly believing in a premature public relaxation from social distancing resulting in a second wave of infections, and also hoping to take advantage of the temporary freedom to go ahead and move. Those two ideas don't really belong in the same brain.

And 8-10 months is probably too optimistic for everything being back on track, too. But I'm finding the need to adjust my mental outlook by bits and pieces. From 1 month to 3, to 8-10 more months, and probably eventually 2 years or until the vaccine is widely applied, including to me.

[deborah]

If there is a vaccine. One form of the common cold is a corona virus, and we don’t have any vaccine for it. We also don’t have a vaccine for other corona viruses, including SARS.

[BigMoneyJim]

If there is a vaccine. One form of the common cold is a corona virus, and we don’t have any vaccine for it. We also don’t have a vaccine for other corona viruses, including SARS.

Shhhh... I'm still trying to make the adjustment from three months to ten. Then comes two years, THEN maybe I can deal with reality. :)

Don't think I haven't noticed the reports of reinfections... I'm just not fully processing it yet.

One month at a time...

And I no longer have any idea if I'm kidding or not.

I guess the good news is that lots of smart qualified folks world-wide are working on it, and we just need to let science do its thing. They'll come up with an objective way to proceed. Whether the world accepts it or not....

[dandarc]

If there is a vaccine. One form of the common cold is a corona virus, and we don’t have any vaccine for it. We also don’t have a vaccine for other corona viruses, including SARS.

SARS basically died out before the vaccine was completed. Got pretty far along - funding was abruptly cut in 2010. Common cold is not severe enough to warrant a vaccine.

CoVID-19 hasn't yet died out or mutated to a weaker form yet, and is definitely severe enough to warrant a vaccine. Orders of magnitude worse than the SARS outbreak already, and the end of this initial wave doesn't look particularly near.

Still very early - lots of possibilities.

[Dicey]

Just catching up on this thread... @Villanelle, is there an update on your friend and her father?

Yes!  While they are still fighting tremendous fatigue and have a ways to go, he is home from the hospital and both are recovering.  My other friend, nearly 4 weeks in, also has fairly debilitating fatigue and is still spiking fevers, but she too is improving.  Thanks for askin!

Glad the news is good! I hope they make a complete recovery.

[former player]

If there is a vaccine. One form of the common cold is a corona virus, and we don’t have any vaccine for it. We also don’t have a vaccine for other corona viruses, including SARS.

SARS basically died out before the vaccine was completed. Got pretty far along - funding was abruptly cut in 2010. Common cold is not severe enough to warrant a vaccine.

CoVID-19 hasn't yet died out or mutated to a weaker form yet, and is definitely severe enough to warrant a vaccine. Orders of magnitude worse than the SARS outbreak already, and the end of this initial wave doesn't look particularly near.

Still very early - lots of possibilities.

Bit in bold: you couldn't prove it by me, I'd be lining up for a vaccine that meant I never had to have another cold in my life.  But as I understand it the severity of the illness is not the problem.

[frugalnacho]

If there is a vaccine. One form of the common cold is a corona virus, and we don’t have any vaccine for it. We also don’t have a vaccine for other corona viruses, including SARS.

I think there are 2 different coronaviruses that cause the common cold, and they account for roughly 25% of cases.  They aren't severe enough to justify the expenses of developing a vaccine, especially when 75% of colds come from other viruses.  Also the immunity conferred from battling the common cold lasts less than a year, so you can still catch the same cold coronavirus every year.  I imagine with a vaccine it would be similar, you'd need to get it reupped at least every year before cold season to maintain immunity, and would likely just get infected by a different virus anyway.

And nobody gives a fuck about SARS.  It had potential to be bad, but it basically just burned out and ended up killing less than 800 people in total worldwide, and we haven't had a reported case since 2004.  No one is prioritizing a vaccine because it's not needed and would largely be a waste of time and resources.   

[frugalnacho]

If there is a vaccine. One form of the common cold is a corona virus, and we don’t have any vaccine for it. We also don’t have a vaccine for other corona viruses, including SARS.

SARS basically died out before the vaccine was completed. Got pretty far along - funding was abruptly cut in 2010. Common cold is not severe enough to warrant a vaccine.

CoVID-19 hasn't yet died out or mutated to a weaker form yet, and is definitely severe enough to warrant a vaccine. Orders of magnitude worse than the SARS outbreak already, and the end of this initial wave doesn't look particularly near.

Still very early - lots of possibilities.

Bit in bold: you couldn't prove it by me, I'd be lining up for a vaccine that meant I never had to have another cold in my life.  But as I understand it the severity of the illness is not the problem.

Colds are caused by a ton of different viruses though (only 25% are caused by coronaviruses) so you'd need many, many different vaccines to stop them.  And the immunity you get from colds is not long lived, and that would probably also be true of a vaccine. 

[OtherJen]

good luck with this:
https://www.sciencealert.com/new-study-suggests-repeated-bouts-of-social-distancing-may-be-needed-until-2022

i can't believe this needed a study. wasn't this readily apparent like even before we ever had a shutdown?

Yes, in the same way that we know vaccines work.  Yet people still flood facebook with anti-vax rhetoric, along with flat earth, anti-evolution, climate change, etc.  It's absolutely settled and not really up for debate, but lots of people are in denial.

People around me are still talking about when things are going to be reopened and go "back to normal".  So many people are convinced this is all just a cautious over reaction, and as soon as the governor pulls her head out of her ass and rescinds our stay at home order everything will just "go back to normal".  They talk as if this virus has some shelf life that's about to expire.  We hunker down for a few weeks, and phew, that was tough guys but we did it, virus defeated, let's get back onto our cruise ship and casinos and restaurants, like they are completely unaware that the virus is still ravaging the entire world despite all the lockdowns happening.  Like if you just believe it harder the virus will magically disappear.

Not to mention all the Covidiots protesting the state capitol and blocking the ambulance entrance to Sparrow Hospital in Lansing today. They don't care. They seem to be incapable of empathy or an understanding that the world is larger than them. I'm legitimately concerned about the number of apparent narcissists and/or sociopaths in our state.

[ixtap]

good luck with this:
https://www.sciencealert.com/new-study-suggests-repeated-bouts-of-social-distancing-may-be-needed-until-2022

i can't believe this needed a study. wasn't this readily apparent like even before we ever had a shutdown?

Yes, in the same way that we know vaccines work.  Yet people still flood facebook with anti-vax rhetoric, along with flat earth, anti-evolution, climate change, etc.  It's absolutely settled and not really up for debate, but lots of people are in denial.

People around me are still talking about when things are going to be reopened and go "back to normal".  So many people are convinced this is all just a cautious over reaction, and as soon as the governor pulls her head out of her ass and rescinds our stay at home order everything will just "go back to normal".  They talk as if this virus has some shelf life that's about to expire.  We hunker down for a few weeks, and phew, that was tough guys but we did it, virus defeated, let's get back onto our cruise ship and casinos and restaurants, like they are completely unaware that the virus is still ravaging the entire world despite all the lockdowns happening.  Like if you just believe it harder the virus will magically disappear.

Not to mention all the Covidiots protesting the state capitol and blocking the ambulance entrance to Sparrow Hospital in Lansing today. They don't care. They seem to be incapable of empathy or an understanding that the world is larger than them. I'm legitimately concerned about the number of apparent narcissists and/or sociopaths in our state.

They aren't even wearing masks, I bet if you interviewed them, they would have something to say about a hoax. And I bet they feel emboldened to protest against "that woman" by a certain someone.

[frugalnacho]

I've had family members tell me this is "the largest partisan hoax of all time".

But then I also have a family member that is a dr in new york, and you've likely seen him on CNN, ABC, etc and he is just the opposite, loudly telling everyone how dangerous this is.  Exactly what you'd expect from a highly intelligent doctor actually working on the front lines.  Amazing that those 2 people with wildly different opinions are so closely related.

[OtherJen]

good luck with this:
https://www.sciencealert.com/new-study-suggests-repeated-bouts-of-social-distancing-may-be-needed-until-2022

i can't believe this needed a study. wasn't this readily apparent like even before we ever had a shutdown?

Yes, in the same way that we know vaccines work.  Yet people still flood facebook with anti-vax rhetoric, along with flat earth, anti-evolution, climate change, etc.  It's absolutely settled and not really up for debate, but lots of people are in denial.

People around me are still talking about when things are going to be reopened and go "back to normal".  So many people are convinced this is all just a cautious over reaction, and as soon as the governor pulls her head out of her ass and rescinds our stay at home order everything will just "go back to normal".  They talk as if this virus has some shelf life that's about to expire.  We hunker down for a few weeks, and phew, that was tough guys but we did it, virus defeated, let's get back onto our cruise ship and casinos and restaurants, like they are completely unaware that the virus is still ravaging the entire world despite all the lockdowns happening.  Like if you just believe it harder the virus will magically disappear.

Not to mention all the Covidiots protesting the state capitol and blocking the ambulance entrance to Sparrow Hospital in Lansing today. They don't care. They seem to be incapable of empathy or an understanding that the world is larger than them. I'm legitimately concerned about the number of apparent narcissists and/or sociopaths in our state.

They aren't even wearing masks, I bet if you interviewed them, they would have something to say about a hoax. And I bet they feel emboldened to protest against "that woman" by a certain someone.

Yep. https://www.michiganradio.org/post/frustrated-whitmer-s-stay-home-order-conservative-protesters-gather-capitol?fbclid=IwAR217O8wTgt-9emJNxPxGMdVO5sX2kUwdBE_EbEjH_JQ1FOG4f5l_AAUk44

[DaMa]

I gave blood at the Red Cross office today.  My appt notification said I'd have to wear a mask during the donation, and if I didn't have one, one would be provided.  There was one person donating when I got there, and he was done before I started.  There were 6 staff.  All but one had those masks that look like hard compressed paper, and they were never removed.  One person had on a black mask that looked like fabric.  She had it over her ears, but the mask was under her chin, not covering her mouth or nose -- for the entire 35 minutes I was there.

[Bloop Bloop]

I think the lockdown measures are now more than is warranted. Daily infections in my state now are at around 10 (total cases around 1300) with nil new fatalities. The vast majority of past fatalities were those aged 70+ and we've only had 13 fatalities overall in my state. And yet they're still talking about more months of lockdown? That's going to cause tens of billions of dollars of economic damage in my state alone which has to be borne partly by those who lose their jobs and partly by those who don't (through higher taxes). I think another 1-2 weeks of lockdown is justified followed by slow easing of most restrictions over the next 3 months so that hospitality and service businesses can resume.

[SwordGuy]

I think the lockdown measures are now more than is warranted. Daily infections in my state now are at around 10 (total cases around 1300) with nil new fatalities. The vast majority of past fatalities were those aged 70+ and we've only had 13 fatalities overall in my state. And yet they're still talking about more months of lockdown? That's going to cause tens of billions of dollars of economic damage in my state alone which has to be borne partly by those who lose their jobs and partly by those who don't (through higher taxes). I think another 1-2 weeks of lockdown is justified followed by slow easing of most restrictions over the next 3 months so that hospitality and service businesses can resume.

31 days ago the US had about 2,500 confirmed cases.   We were doubling the number of cases in less than 3 days.

1,300 cases would have taken less than days to get to 2,500 before social distancing tool effect.

Be happy it's working in your area.

[Bloop Bloop]

It's now a question of how long it needs to be in effect. I see no justification for it being in effect for months and months from today, unless numbers change.

[Taran Wanderer]

The problem is that by the time you see the numbers changing, it's too late.  With a R0 (multiplication rate) of 2.5, the progression goes like this:

1,300
3,250
8,125
20,313
50,781
126,953
317,383
793,457
1,983,643
4,959,106

Add all those up and you have 8.26 million cases in a matter of months. With a 2-week incubation period during which transmission occurs before symptoms, the disease spreads quietly before exploding all at once.

There is no normal to return to until we have either 1) massive testing and quarantine of infected people, or 2) a vaccine.  Returning to "normal" without one of those options means sentencing a huge number of people to death.

[Bloop Bloop]

That's not the growth curve for my state and it wasn't the curve even prior to the lockdown measures being put into place.

Sweden has no lockdown and while its deaths are higher, it's nowhere near the sort of curve suggested above.

The growth curve also doesn't stay as a set exponential function. It levels off quickly even with soft measures in place.

[SwordGuy]

That's not the growth curve for my state and it wasn't the curve even prior to the lockdown measures being put into place.

Sweden has no lockdown and while its deaths are higher, it's nowhere near the sort of curve suggested above.

The growth curve also doesn't stay as a set exponential function. It levels off quickly even with soft measures in place.

I tracked the national growth curve from March 13th for over 2 weeks, when the distancing measures started to kick in.   We were doubling in three days that whole time.    Testing still hadn't gotten off the ground.    That growth curve was consistent with the growth curve other countries had when they didn't have social distancing measures in place.   

[Bloop Bloop]

That's not the growth curve for my state and it wasn't the curve even prior to the lockdown measures being put into place.

Sweden has no lockdown and while its deaths are higher, it's nowhere near the sort of curve suggested above.

The growth curve also doesn't stay as a set exponential function. It levels off quickly even with soft measures in place.

I tracked the national growth curve from March 13th for over 2 weeks, when the distancing measures started to kick in.   We were doubling in three days that whole time.    Testing still hadn't gotten off the ground.    That growth curve was consistent with the growth curve other countries had when they didn't have social distancing measures in place.

No, it's really not consistent with most other countries' growth curves. You're picking American statistics which are just about the worst in the world. Here in Australia, the doubling rate only kept up for about 3 days and then the exponential growth ceased. After that the curve went essentially linear and within 11 days of the first signs of "exponential" growth, we had already crested the wave of infections and they began tailing off significantly.

https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers

Nor has Sweden with non-lockdown measures been subject to such a growth curve.

Keeping in mind I didn't advocate for nil measures at all - but rather a slow release from full lockdown.

[Bloop Bloop]

And just as I post, the Australian government has announced that social isolation measures may be dispensed with in as little as four weeks. States like mine that have particularly harsh lockdown rules have the freedom to relax the extra-harsh rules within those four weeks.

Sounds like commonsense is finally coming into play.

I'm looking forward to being able to see friends and family in person again, not to mention, it'll be nice to take my car out on the road for a blast through the twisties.

[Dicey]

I've seen a couple of articles about the shit going down in Michigan. What a bunch of misguided idiots. I'd say lock down the state borders and let the virus have its way with them, but I have family there that I like.

[Spud]

And just as I post, the Australian government has announced that social isolation measures may be dispensed with in as little as four weeks. States like mine that have particularly harsh lockdown rules have the freedom to relax the extra-harsh rules within those four weeks.

Sounds like commonsense is finally coming into play.

I'm looking forward to being able to see friends and family in person again, not to mention, it'll be nice to take my car out on the road for a blast through the twisties.

Australia has been doing something right. Their numbers are some of the best I've seen from anywhere in the world. You may feel that your government has been harsh, but the UK, US and Europe can only dream of being in the position you're in right now. Our numbers are getting worse.

[Kyle Schuant]

And just as I post, the Australian government has announced that social isolation measures may be dispensed with in as little as four weeks. States like mine that have particularly harsh lockdown rules have the freedom to relax the extra-harsh rules within those four weeks.

Some measures. Maybe.

Don't play the beach party just yet, Bloop.

[Bloop Bloop]

The thing is that the 'prevention' isn't free. It costs workers jobs and it costs the government tax revenue and we'll all be repaying it in some way or another over the next decade, which is why I'm glad the government is taking a sensible approach and looking at loosening restrictions within 4 weeks. Hopefully that is the Goldilocks solution.

[deborah]

I've often wondered if here in Australia one of the reasons we've gotten off so lightly compared to most other countries, is that most (definitely not all....) our Asian neighbours were taking things a lot more seriously than we were with regards to testing, contact tracing, quarantine, social distancing, etc., and so what THEY did had a very positive flow on effect to us.

If you look at the link Bloop gave, most of our cases were from overseas (not local) - so we must have been doing well and catching a lot before they transferred to the local population, and most of those were from Europe, cruise ships or America. We were probably lucky that the school holidays were over before it spread outside China - otherwise everyone would have picked it up in Bali or Thailand. And I know a number of people cut off overseas holidays early or decided not to go overseas because we were having such a bad fire season.

[T-Money$]

The only way to stop the pandemic available to the world right now is herd immunity through infection. 

There is no other method.  Social distancing and isolation may help keep hospital ICUs and other medical services under maximum capacity but that is the only benefit, and the societal costs are enormous.  Social distancing only delays the inevitable. 

It's good to hope for an effective vaccine, but to date there are no successful vaccines for coronavirus strains.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/the-latest-on-the-coronavirus/

[OtherJen]

I've seen a couple of articles about the shit going down in Michigan. What a bunch of misguided idiots. I'd say lock down the state borders and let the virus have its way with them, but I have family there that I like.

Thank you for not wanting to punish all of us who live in Michigan for an idiot minority (the governor’s actions have a >70% approval rating). I would be happy to pack all of the protestors into an arena and let them wait it out for 2 weeks.

[partgypsy]

Will we die?

Yes we all will.  Just a matter of time

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -Steven Wright
No way.  Based on my extensive research, I've come up with the following graph of my life:



A line of best fit (that predicts the future based on past events) shows that I'll never die.

I had test your data to ensure it was correct.  I only trended out to 250 years but seems that, based on history, I too will live forever

Checks pulse.

So far, so good.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good" -Steven Wright

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I've seen a couple of articles about the shit going down in Michigan. What a bunch of misguided idiots. I'd say lock down the state borders and let the virus have its way with them, but I have family there that I like.

Thank you for not wanting to punish all of us who live in Michigan for an idiot minority (the governor’s actions have a >70% approval rating). I would be happy to pack all of the protestors into an arena and let them wait it out for 2 weeks.

It's like watching natural selection in action, in the most depressing way.

[deborah]

The only way to stop the pandemic available to the world right now is herd immunity through infection. 

There is no other method.  Social distancing and isolation may help keep hospital ICUs and other medical services under maximum capacity but that is the only benefit, and the societal costs are enormous.  Social distancing only delays the inevitable.

Actually, there is another method. Eliminate it. Somehow, we appear to be doing that, as is New Zealand. That’s why we’re talking about opening up our restrictions in a few weeks. Once three things are in place - more testing (we already are one of the world’s leaders per head of population), 40% of us using a tracking app so they can automatically work out everyone within the range of an infected person for more than 15 minutes, and the ability to quickly lockdown small areas. And we may well open up our borders to each other. Only a very small percentage of either population has had it.

[partgypsy]

Hard to top the statements from these idiots who posted on my local NextDoor forum:

"I won't be staying home.  I will be exercising my constitutional rights.  If you want to stay home feel free to do so but stop encouraging these tyrants undermining the liberty of innocent people. …"

"Fear mongering.  Are you aware the government lies?"

and my personal favorite:  "Bill Gates funded this virus."

No words.

Ooohhh. Are you ready? I think I can top those.

Check out this gem that I came across on Facebook the other day:

The Lockdown is permanent... ONLY essential Businesses will be allowed to exist from this point on.

Social distancing is permanent... all social interactions will be done online. This is why Facebook purchased VR company Oculus Rift, and why Elon Musk is developing Brain Computer Interface with Neuralink.

The real reason why they are saying "social distancing" is because the Artificial Intelligence Human Tracking system they have for the 5G roll out requires distance between people to be able to fully track everybody.

This is a KNOWN issue in the tech world with the Human Tracking systems that Crowd Density causes the AI to lose track and has problems identifying people in large groups. They are using the Virus scare tactic in order to push people into the behavior of this so they can get the AI system tracking everybody without failure. (And I do mean EVERYBODY... google SpaceX Starlink).

Current Debt based Economy is going to be allowed to completely Crash with the CoronaVirus Global Lockdown being used as the excuse.

System waiting in the wings to replace it, will be a 100% Digital Currency.

A Universal Basic Income will be available ONLY to those who have taken the Bill Gates backed Digital Implant tied to Vaccine Records.

If you are NOT needed by or qualified to work for businesses classed as 'Essential', you will NOT receive the Universal Basic Income and will be allowed to STARVE.

Point Blank, this is their plan.

You have been warned.

Good one. This is my conspiracy theory, and ties into the Matrix/everything is a simulation conspiracy theory. The Master computer was designed with enough memory/processing speed to create simulations for only a certain number of people like 6 billion. Our population is gone past whatever that number is, and when that happens people will increasingly see "glitches" in the simulation. To avoid that simulation emergency backup is to have the virus lock down, have everyone stay at home, which decreases interactions and needed memory/processing speed etc. If that conspiracy theory is true then yes the lockdown will be permanent with us transitioning to people only interacting virtually as that drastically reduces memory processing demands. 
Either that or they will do a reboot, and scale down resolutions for everyone so everything works properly.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Hard to top the statements from these idiots who posted on my local NextDoor forum:

"I won't be staying home.  I will be exercising my constitutional rights.  If you want to stay home feel free to do so but stop encouraging these tyrants undermining the liberty of innocent people. …"

"Fear mongering.  Are you aware the government lies?"

and my personal favorite:  "Bill Gates funded this virus."

No words.

Ooohhh. Are you ready? I think I can top those.

Check out this gem that I came across on Facebook the other day:

The Lockdown is permanent... ONLY essential Businesses will be allowed to exist from this point on.

Social distancing is permanent... all social interactions will be done online. This is why Facebook purchased VR company Oculus Rift, and why Elon Musk is developing Brain Computer Interface with Neuralink.

The real reason why they are saying "social distancing" is because the Artificial Intelligence Human Tracking system they have for the 5G roll out requires distance between people to be able to fully track everybody.

This is a KNOWN issue in the tech world with the Human Tracking systems that Crowd Density causes the AI to lose track and has problems identifying people in large groups. They are using the Virus scare tactic in order to push people into the behavior of this so they can get the AI system tracking everybody without failure. (And I do mean EVERYBODY... google SpaceX Starlink).

Current Debt based Economy is going to be allowed to completely Crash with the CoronaVirus Global Lockdown being used as the excuse.

System waiting in the wings to replace it, will be a 100% Digital Currency.

A Universal Basic Income will be available ONLY to those who have taken the Bill Gates backed Digital Implant tied to Vaccine Records.

If you are NOT needed by or qualified to work for businesses classed as 'Essential', you will NOT receive the Universal Basic Income and will be allowed to STARVE.

Point Blank, this is their plan.

You have been warned.

Good one. This is my conspiracy theory, and ties into the Matrix/everything is a simulation conspiracy theory. The Master computer was designed with enough memory/processing speed to create simulations for only a certain number of people like 6 billion. Our population is gone past whatever that number is, and when that happens people will increasingly see "glitches" in the simulation. To avoid that simulation emergency backup is to have the virus lock down, have everyone stay at home, which decreases interactions and needed memory/processing speed etc. If that conspiracy theory is true then yes the lockdown will be permanent with us transitioning to people only interacting virtually as that drastically reduces memory processing demands. 
Either that or they will do a reboot, and scale down resolutions for everyone so everything works properly.

If I'm in the Matrix, I'd like to register a major fucking complaint about my simulation please. For a start, why was I not born a genetic supermodel???

[T-Money$]

The only way to stop the pandemic available to the world right now is herd immunity through infection. 

There is no other method.  Social distancing and isolation may help keep hospital ICUs and other medical services under maximum capacity but that is the only benefit, and the societal costs are enormous.  Social distancing only delays the inevitable.

Actually, there is another method. Eliminate it. Somehow, we appear to be doing that, as is New Zealand. That’s why we’re talking about opening up our restrictions in a few weeks. Once three things are in place - more testing (we already are one of the world’s leaders per head of population), 40% of us using a tracking app so they can automatically work out everyone within the range of an infected person for more than 15 minutes, and the ability to quickly lockdown small areas. And we may well open up our borders to each other. Only a very small percentage of either population has had it.

Very interesting.  I hope it works.

[partgypsy]

Hard to top the statements from these idiots who posted on my local NextDoor forum:

"I won't be staying home.  I will be exercising my constitutional rights.  If you want to stay home feel free to do so but stop encouraging these tyrants undermining the liberty of innocent people. …"

"Fear mongering.  Are you aware the government lies?"

and my personal favorite:  "Bill Gates funded this virus."

No words.

Ooohhh. Are you ready? I think I can top those.

Check out this gem that I came across on Facebook the other day:

The Lockdown is permanent... ONLY essential Businesses will be allowed to exist from this point on.

Social distancing is permanent... all social interactions will be done online. This is why Facebook purchased VR company Oculus Rift, and why Elon Musk is developing Brain Computer Interface with Neuralink.

The real reason why they are saying "social distancing" is because the Artificial Intelligence Human Tracking system they have for the 5G roll out requires distance between people to be able to fully track everybody.

This is a KNOWN issue in the tech world with the Human Tracking systems that Crowd Density causes the AI to lose track and has problems identifying people in large groups. They are using the Virus scare tactic in order to push people into the behavior of this so they can get the AI system tracking everybody without failure. (And I do mean EVERYBODY... google SpaceX Starlink).

Current Debt based Economy is going to be allowed to completely Crash with the CoronaVirus Global Lockdown being used as the excuse.

System waiting in the wings to replace it, will be a 100% Digital Currency.

A Universal Basic Income will be available ONLY to those who have taken the Bill Gates backed Digital Implant tied to Vaccine Records.

If you are NOT needed by or qualified to work for businesses classed as 'Essential', you will NOT receive the Universal Basic Income and will be allowed to STARVE.

Point Blank, this is their plan.

You have been warned.

Good one. This is my conspiracy theory, and ties into the Matrix/everything is a simulation conspiracy theory. The Master computer was designed with enough memory/processing speed to create simulations for only a certain number of people like 6 billion. Our population is gone past whatever that number is, and when that happens people will increasingly see "glitches" in the simulation. To avoid that simulation emergency backup is to have the virus lock down, have everyone stay at home, which decreases interactions and needed memory/processing speed etc. If that conspiracy theory is true then yes the lockdown will be permanent with us transitioning to people only interacting virtually as that drastically reduces memory processing demands. 
Either that or they will do a reboot, and scale down resolutions for everyone so everything works properly.

If I'm in the Matrix, I'd like to register a major fucking complaint about my simulation please. For a start, why was I not born a genetic supermodel???

I think character traits were generated using a probablistic matter so it's crap shoot (but given you read this forum you probably have higher than average intelligence). Most games have easter eggs and hidden power ups, so who knows maybe if you can find one of those you will suddenly be a 20 year old supermodel with a million in the bank? I think Leo Decaprio found one of them. Keanu Reeves found the everlasting youth easter egg   ; )   Oh no! Trump found the Big Boss module. We are screwed.

[Lews Therin]

The only way to stop the pandemic available to the world right now is herd immunity through infection. 

Tell that to South Korea.

Maybe we should all import South Koreans to run our pandemic responses?

[Kyle Schuant]

If you say so, egillepsie. Good luck with that.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/australia-on-course-to-eliminate-covid-19-modelling-shows-20200416-p54kjh.html

[frugalnacho]

Along with the unnecessary lockdowns in areas that aren't experiencing exponential growth, I'd like to add a few more complaints.

Why did I have to spend money on a new roof? It's not even raining in my living room!
Why did I have to install a new furnace? It's not even cold in my house!
Why did I have to change my engines oil? My engine has NEVER even ceased up!
Also what a fucking waste of money these shoes are, my feet never even get blisters.

I'm sick of people I talk to shitting on the lockdown measures taken by various places and using the same argument.  Such a waste of time and money to lockdown california because they aren't even experiencing a crazy outbreak like new york is, but the thought doesn't even occur to them that it's precisely because of the seemingly over restrictive lockdown measures. 

[Sibley]

I've seen a couple of articles about the shit going down in Michigan. What a bunch of misguided idiots. I'd say lock down the state borders and let the virus have its way with them, but I have family there that I like.

Thank you for not wanting to punish all of us who live in Michigan for an idiot minority (the governor’s actions have a >70% approval rating). I would be happy to pack all of the protestors into an arena and let them wait it out for 2 weeks.

My parents are in Michigan. They think the actions are overblown, but at the same time they've been cowed by the death toll and converting Cobo to a hospital. Thus, they're staying in. They want to go out, but are too scared to do even what they're allowed to do - yard work.

[Bloop Bloop]

Straw man argument. No one's saying a lockdown wasn't necessary, but we're asking when it can be relaxed.

Note also that there are countries that have had more or less degrees of lockdown so it's not necessary for a "full" lockdown.

Easy to order a full lockdown in order to save lives but you also have to look at the economic cost of that lockdown including millions of unemployed and the problems - including suicides - that might bring down the track.

Today my state recorded an amazing total of *2* new cases of coronavirus. Out of 5 million. The whole country recorded 24. Out of 25 million. We are talking about continuing the lockdown for another 4 weeks. I'm not at all convinced that it is necessary; a few weeks ago we were talking about 3-6 months of lockdown, so clearly the situation is in flux, and I'm glad the brains trust is willing to reconsider timeframes as we go along.

[OtherJen]

Along with the unnecessary lockdowns in areas that aren't experiencing exponential growth, I'd like to add a few more complaints.

Why did I have to spend money on a new roof? It's not even raining in my living room!
Why did I have to install a new furnace? It's not even cold in my house!
Why did I have to change my engines oil? My engine has NEVER even ceased up!
Also what a fucking waste of money these shoes are, my feet never even get blisters.

I'm sick of people I talk to shitting on the lockdown measures taken by various places and using the same argument.  Such a waste of time and money to lockdown california because they aren't even experiencing a crazy outbreak like new york is, but the thought doesn't even occur to them that it's precisely because of the seemingly over restrictive lockdown measures.

^^^ This.

We were warned that people would complain about the lockdowns being too restrictive once they actually started achieving the intended goal. And now we're seeing examples both in this thread and in our own state.

Fewer deaths and less medical system overload than predicted WAS THE ENTIRE POINT and a successful outcome. None of these measures are intended to go on forever, but the more people refuse to cooperate and help each other, the longer we're going to be all stuck and the longer it will take to get back to some semblance of normalcy.

We also need to prepare for the significant possibility of future waves of lockdowns, if Hokkaido prefecture in Japan is an indicator: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52305055

[Dogastrophe]

....

I'm sick of people I talk to shitting on the lockdown measures taken by various places and using the same argument.  Such a waste of time and money to lockdown california because they aren't even experiencing a crazy outbreak like new york is, but the thought doesn't even occur to them that it's precisely because of the seemingly over restrictive lockdown measures.

I saw this on my twitter feed this morning which sums things up nicely

[Anette]

Libraries will open again on Monday! Hooray

[OtherJen]

Libraries will open again on Monday! Hooray

That will be a very welcome event in my area. Hopefully we can start opening things on a limited and cautious basis fairly soon.

[frugalnacho]

Straw man argument. No one's saying a lockdown wasn't necessary, but we're asking when it can be relaxed.

Note also that there are countries that have had more or less degrees of lockdown so it's not necessary for a "full" lockdown.

Easy to order a full lockdown in order to save lives but you also have to look at the economic cost of that lockdown including millions of unemployed and the problems - including suicides - that might bring down the track.

Today my state recorded an amazing total of *2* new cases of coronavirus. Out of 5 million. The whole country recorded 24. Out of 25 million. We are talking about continuing the lockdown for another 4 weeks. I'm not at all convinced that it is necessary; a few weeks ago we were talking about 3-6 months of lockdown, so clearly the situation is in flux, and I'm glad the brains trust is willing to reconsider timeframes as we go along.

My post wasn't directed at you specifically, but yes plenty of people actually are saying a lockdown wasn't/isn't necessary.

It sounds like your states mitigation strategy is working remarkably well.  Hopefully they are actually performing sufficient tests and you are getting a representative picture of what's actually happening.  Part of the problem is that there is no going back and getting a do over.  Italy, Spain, New York, none of those places can go back in time and implement restrictive lockdowns earlier and more effectively, and they can't pause what's going on.  It's an out of control situation and the best case scenario is to shut everything down and hopefully get it under control, and by under control I mean stop the exponential spread of the disease and deal with the pile of death they they already have and know they will continue to have for many weeks as currently infected people continue to die. 

[Dicey]

Libraries will open again on Monday! Hooray

Where? It ain't happening in my state and we don't want it to.

[Bloop Bloop]

Put it this way, if we relax lockdowns so that businesses can resume (but we still ban mass gatherings), the situation will be better than it was pre-lockdown. And we will have much better ability to tailor the stage of lockdown based on new data. And we are doing very well with expanding the testing regime to get better results.

Pre-lockdown, even with the accelerated spread of the disease and none of the above advantages, Australia still had only 63 deaths in total - the vast majority of whom were aged 70+. It still took us only 3 weeks to go from the initial exponential growth stage to the rapid decay stage.

So let's say we relax lockdown a little early and it causes a resurgence - okay, maybe that'll be another 3 week cycle, and that might be 30, 40 more deaths before the reinstituted lockdown plus the increased testing regime gets it under control again? We need to calculate that against the economic cost of say a full-scale 3-6 month lockdown which would have 10-20% of Australians out of work for months and cost hundreds of billions of dollars.

We do calculations of human mortality versus cost all the time (e.g. - speed limits) so it is a worthwhile exercise. Anyway, I have faith in our country's brains trust. As I said I think they have been appropriately responsive to the situation.