Author Topic: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire  (Read 23057 times)

wenchsenior

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #100 on: August 16, 2020, 09:57:20 AM »
Pretty sure that is the first time I have seen Texas and nanny state in the same sentence.

Heh. I also did a double-take at that.

TomTX

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #101 on: August 16, 2020, 11:45:08 AM »
Pretty sure that is the first time I have seen Texas and nanny state in the same sentence.

Heh. I also did a double-take at that.

Don't believe the bluster (and refusal to expand Medicaid) - Texas does all sorts of nanny state stuff.

Heavily fine a winery for donating wine to an alumni event instead of selling to a distributor, buying back from a distributor and then giving it to the event? Yep.

Banning direct sales of automobiles, forcing you to use a dealership network? Yep.

All sorts of PITA restrictions on mortgage refinancing, driving rates up 0.2-0.3% compared to reasonable states, plus limiting how often you can refi? Yep.

Ban ownership of multiple alcohol stores, except for strange family partnerships? Yep. I can't get Kirkland Vodka. Thanks, Texas!

Ban possession of more than 6 dildos?? Yep. Could be charged as a felony! (thrown out by the courts)

wenchsenior

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #102 on: August 16, 2020, 11:50:34 AM »
Pretty sure that is the first time I have seen Texas and nanny state in the same sentence.

Heh. I also did a double-take at that.

Don't believe the bluster (and refusal to expand Medicaid) - Texas does all sorts of nanny state stuff.

Heavily fine a winery for donating wine to an alumni event instead of selling to a distributor, buying back from a distributor and then giving it to the event? Yep.

Banning direct sales of automobiles, forcing you to use a dealership network? Yep.

All sorts of PITA restrictions on mortgage refinancing, driving rates up 0.2-0.3% compared to reasonable states, plus limiting how often you can refi? Yep.

Ban ownership of multiple alcohol stores, except for strange family partnerships? Yep. I can't get Kirkland Vodka. Thanks, Texas!

Ban possession of more than 6 dildos?? Yep. Could be charged as a felony! (thrown out by the courts)

Yeah, I live in Texas.  I find nearly everything about this state to be ludicrous, though, so I'm not a great judge. (When did the ban on direct sales of autos happen? We've sold a couple of cars to other people and never ran into any problem...might be a county thing...)

ixtap

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #103 on: August 16, 2020, 11:51:55 AM »
Pretty sure that is the first time I have seen Texas and nanny state in the same sentence.

Heh. I also did a double-take at that.

Don't believe the bluster (and refusal to expand Medicaid) - Texas does all sorts of nanny state stuff.

Heavily fine a winery for donating wine to an alumni event instead of selling to a distributor, buying back from a distributor and then giving it to the event? Yep.

Banning direct sales of automobiles, forcing you to use a dealership network? Yep.

All sorts of PITA restrictions on mortgage refinancing, driving rates up 0.2-0.3% compared to reasonable states, plus limiting how often you can refi? Yep.

Ban ownership of multiple alcohol stores, except for strange family partnerships? Yep. I can't get Kirkland Vodka. Thanks, Texas!

Ban possession of more than 6 dildos?? Yep. Could be charged as a felony! (thrown out by the courts)

Yeah, I live in Texas.  I find nearly everything about this state to be ludicrous, though, so I'm not a great judge. (When did the ban on direct sales of autos happen? We've sold a couple of cars to other people and never ran into any problem...might be a county thing...)

It is a ban on manufacturers making direct sales, not individuals.

rmorris50

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #104 on: August 16, 2020, 12:41:23 PM »

[/quote]

Ban possession of more than 6 dildos?? Yep. Could be charged as a felony! (thrown out by the courts)

[/quote]

Well, I'm sure you could make the argument they are assault weapons - problem solved!

TempusFugit

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #105 on: August 16, 2020, 12:55:51 PM »
Pretty sure that is the first time I have seen Texas and nanny state in the same sentence.

Heh. I also did a double-take at that.

Don't believe the bluster (and refusal to expand Medicaid) - Texas does all sorts of nanny state stuff.

Heavily fine a winery for donating wine to an alumni event instead of selling to a distributor, buying back from a distributor and then giving it to the event? Yep.

Banning direct sales of automobiles, forcing you to use a dealership network? Yep.

All sorts of PITA restrictions on mortgage refinancing, driving rates up 0.2-0.3% compared to reasonable states, plus limiting how often you can refi? Yep.

Ban ownership of multiple alcohol stores, except for strange family partnerships? Yep. I can't get Kirkland Vodka. Thanks, Texas!

Ban possession of more than 6 dildos?? Yep. Could be charged as a felony! (thrown out by the courts)

Yeah, I live in Texas.  I find nearly everything about this state to be ludicrous, though, so I'm not a great judge. (When did the ban on direct sales of autos happen? We've sold a couple of cars to other people and never ran into any problem...might be a county thing...)

It is a ban on manufacturers making direct sales, not individuals.

Thats quite common across the country.  When you have multi-generational entrenched local businesses that have been donating to local politicians for decades, this is the kind of thing you get. 
In some states, the sale contract also includes an arbitration clause that means you cant sue the dealership for anything but instead have to rely on arbitration.  Thats written into state law.  Think arbitrators will be fair minded when they rely on these businesses for all of their own income? 

This is why regulations in general, while necessary to some degree, are largely just used for rent seeking and anti-competition leverage by entrenched powers.   

jim555

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FlytilFIRE

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #107 on: August 17, 2020, 03:14:17 PM »
2 million?  Now you need 8 million:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-new-savings-target-for-a-modest-retirement-8-million-2020-08-17?mod=home-page

That's a joke, right? A .5% SWR? Heck, you can get an annuity that pays 6%.

ixtap

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #108 on: August 17, 2020, 03:21:26 PM »
2 million?  Now you need 8 million:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-new-savings-target-for-a-modest-retirement-8-million-2020-08-17?mod=home-page

That's a joke, right? A .5% SWR? Heck, you can get an annuity that pays 6%.

But the Financial Samurai said it was the new normal!!

markbike528CBX

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #109 on: August 17, 2020, 03:22:11 PM »


Ban possession of more than 6 dildos?? Yep. Could be charged as a felony! (thrown out by the courts)

[/quote]

Well, I'm sure you could make the argument they are assault weapons - problem solved!
[/quote]

I had this same thought, but you beat me to it.   I guess I've been watching to much https://www.youtube.com/c/ForgottenWeapons/videos and similar.

Assault weapons:  has bayonet attachment (sort of), a pistol grip (again, sort of). 
other options include telescoping stock (-- dang, can't unthink that now), flash hider (eeek!), grenade launcher (--faints dead to ground)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #110 on: August 17, 2020, 03:42:03 PM »
2 million?  Now you need 8 million:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-new-savings-target-for-a-modest-retirement-8-million-2020-08-17?mod=home-page

That dude is batshit crazy but he’s in a smart way. He’s saying this outrageous stuff and guess what? People will go to his blog and comment and tell him he’s crazy but he’s getting the views and so the ad money will keep coming in. Everything about him is awful, but he’s still getting attention when someone else has a thread about other financial blogs going whisper quiet.

NorthernBlitz

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #111 on: August 17, 2020, 07:38:04 PM »
2 million?  Now you need 8 million:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-new-savings-target-for-a-modest-retirement-8-million-2020-08-17?mod=home-page

That dude is batshit crazy but he’s in a smart way. He’s saying this outrageous stuff and guess what? People will go to his blog and comment and tell him he’s crazy but he’s getting the views and so the ad money will keep coming in. Everything about him is awful, but he’s still getting attention when someone else has a thread about other financial blogs going whisper quiet.

All about the clicks!

rmorris50

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #112 on: August 18, 2020, 06:07:07 PM »
2 million?  Now you need 8 million:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-new-savings-target-for-a-modest-retirement-8-million-2020-08-17?mod=home-page

Ugh, I read the click-bait. Anyway, queue the Golden Girls, lot's of people will be living like that if this article is true!! :-P Yes I love the Golden Girls.

Chris Pascale

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #113 on: August 18, 2020, 10:20:43 PM »
I've seen this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGoZyz5QwCc&

Are most of us doomed? I can't imagine saving $2M. It's such an enormous amount!

I'd need to work like 10-15 more years for that!

We all know this is dumb, because, as Suze Orman pointed out, you can't even get groceries to your private island for that.

DadJokes

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #114 on: August 20, 2020, 10:47:54 AM »
Pretty sure that is the first time I have seen Texas and nanny state in the same sentence.

Heh. I also did a double-take at that.

...

Ban possession of more than 6 dildos?? Yep. Could be charged as a felony! (thrown out by the courts)

In their defense, does anyone really need more than 3?

/s in case it wasn't obvious

Chris Pascale

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #115 on: August 20, 2020, 09:52:27 PM »
Pretty sure that is the first time I have seen Texas and nanny state in the same sentence.

Heh. I also did a double-take at that.

...

Ban possession of more than 6 dildos?? Yep. Could be charged as a felony! (thrown out by the courts)

In their defense, does anyone really need more than 3?

/s in case it wasn't obvious

You do, because it's about FREEDOM, and we need freedom.

American GenX

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #116 on: August 24, 2020, 11:04:12 AM »
$2M seems ridiculous to me, as far as "needs" for a single person living in LCOL area.   But then, my stash is getting up near that amount, so I've already worked longer than I needed to.  Note, I'm talking stash, not net worth, as net worth includes my home, and I won't be drawing down from my home for retirement spending.

Even $1M is more than I need.  It looks like $350,000 stash would be enough to pay my bills through FIRE and still have several hundred dollars per month left over for discretionary spending.

Sandi_k

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #117 on: August 28, 2020, 02:17:53 PM »

Even $1M is more than I need.  It looks like $350,000 stash would be enough to pay my bills through FIRE and still have several hundred dollars per month left over for discretionary spending.

How are you planning to handle medical and dental expenses?

American GenX

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #118 on: August 29, 2020, 11:15:46 AM »

Even $1M is more than I need.  It looks like $350,000 stash would be enough to pay my bills through FIRE and still have several hundred dollars per month left over for discretionary spending.

How are you planning to handle medical and dental expenses?

That's part of my budget and already factored in to my numbers.  I'll probably just self insure for dental unless I find a decent plan.  I'll buy health insurance to reduce my out of pocket costs for medical expenses.

ixtap

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #119 on: September 05, 2020, 11:10:24 AM »
I'll feel very lucky if I have $500,000 net worth when I plan on retiring at 55.
I was planning on living on just that until 70 and then taking full social security.

I was feeling somewhat ok with this plan until reading this thread. Now I feel a little nervous.

The whole point is that $2M is just a random number. How much YOU need depends on your circumstances.

norajean

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #120 on: September 05, 2020, 12:04:18 PM »
One million is a nice round number that sounds big. Most people consider what a house and couple vehicles cost and reckon maybe 1 million is not quite enough, so they round up to $2 million. Simple as that. They have no clue what they need, what they spend, what they have or how long they will work. It is all nonsense.

Metalcat

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #121 on: September 05, 2020, 12:18:26 PM »
I'll feel very lucky if I have $500,000 net worth when I plan on retiring at 55.
I was planning on living on just that until 70 and then taking full social security.

I was feeling somewhat ok with this plan until reading this thread. Now I feel a little nervous.

Why would anyone else's numbers make you feel nervous.

I don't get nervous talking to people who insist that they need a minimum of 5M to retire, I just know that their lifestyle is way more costly than mine.

soccerluvof4

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #122 on: September 06, 2020, 05:44:31 AM »
Like many have said it really is person to person/couple to couple and there are many many variables. You can find articles to support your ideas, numbers etc and ones that make you nervous. For most of the population I would gather 2M $ is way more than enough to fire on but again depending on your age, living situation etc.. Work the calculators there are plenty of good ones out there and use history as your guide. If you have more desires to for more expensive things you just need to include that. We fired slightly above that number 5.5 years ago and bought our dream house which was twice as much as we were living in prior but due to the market we still have liquid and NW more than we started with. Having said that as the market has risen I have more cash set aside as the market has rose for various reasons. That is my comfort zone and what helps me sleep at night though I am not a good sleeper regardless. I also spent 2 years before firing really checking my costs and using a budget tool and then added 10% to that for my withdrawal rate.

rmorris50

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #123 on: September 06, 2020, 06:02:04 AM »
How much you “need” to RE is very assumption driven, and what you assume is dependent on one’s risk appetite. My spouse and I are worth $2.4m, but if I assume only 3% real return (5% return less 2% inflation), and add a 5% cushion our expenses, and that we live to 90, and that we spend 10k a year for vacation, then only having 2.4m makes for a “nail biting” retirement.

But if I change real return to assume 4%, or take inexpensive vacations, I can retire today. Also, no one in my family has come even close to living to 90. I doubt I will to.

But I’ll still work another 2-3 years to strengthen our financial position while the job iron is still hot. Once I stop working for big salary at BigCorp USA that’s hard to come back from.

When I was younger I thought $2m I’ll retire for sure! Yet here I am still working.


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wenchsenior

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #124 on: September 06, 2020, 10:24:37 AM »
How much you “need” to RE is very assumption driven, and what you assume is dependent on one’s risk appetite. My spouse and I are worth $2.4m, but if I assume only 3% real return (5% return less 2% inflation), and add a 5% cushion our expenses, and that we live to 90, and that we spend 10k a year for vacation, then only having 2.4m makes for a “nail biting” retirement.

But if I change real return to assume 4%, or take inexpensive vacations, I can retire today. Also, no one in my family has come even close to living to 90. I doubt I will to.

But I’ll still work another 2-3 years to strengthen our financial position while the job iron is still hot. Once I stop working for big salary at BigCorp USA that’s hard to come back from.

When I was younger I thought $2m I’ll retire for sure! Yet here I am still working.
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If I had $2,000,000 by 55 or so, or any age whatsoever, I'd be so incredibly happy.
I would never even come close to having to work another day in my life with that amount.

Either I'm way off on what it takes to retire or I spend way less than others.
I usually spend about $20,000 per year. If I spent $25,000 I could have a blast.

I have no way to save more than $500,000 unless I come up with a brilliant money-making idea all of a sudden...which I've been trying to do for years....so not likely.
(or I can work my current job which I hate until I'm well into my 60's.)

Some of you should be very thankful for how much you have accumulated.......my stress would vanish instantly if I had what some of you have.
I feel like I'm close to living in a homeless camp after comparing my situation to most others posting here.

Can someone who plans on having a very small amount for retirement post here to make me feel better? :)

How old are you?  Some of your feelings might be just lack of long term perspective. You likely could save a lot more than you believe you can. 

And I am definitely thankful for how much we have saved, but I'm also proud b/c we worked diligently to do it for more than 20 years.

rmorris50

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #125 on: September 06, 2020, 10:36:03 AM »
How much you “need” to RE is very assumption driven, and what you assume is dependent on one’s risk appetite. My spouse and I are worth $2.4m, but if I assume only 3% real return (5% return less 2% inflation), and add a 5% cushion our expenses, and that we live to 90, and that we spend 10k a year for vacation, then only having 2.4m makes for a “nail biting” retirement.

But if I change real return to assume 4%, or take inexpensive vacations, I can retire today. Also, no one in my family has come even close to living to 90. I doubt I will to.

But I’ll still work another 2-3 years to strengthen our financial position while the job iron is still hot. Once I stop working for big salary at BigCorp USA that’s hard to come back from.

When I was younger I thought $2m I’ll retire for sure! Yet here I am still working.
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If I had $2,000,000 by 55 or so, or any age whatsoever, I'd be so incredibly happy.
I would never even come close to having to work another day in my life with that amount.

Either I'm way off on what it takes to retire or I spend way less than others.
I usually spend about $20,000 per year. If I spent $25,000 I could have a blast.

I have no way to save more than $500,000 unless I come up with a brilliant money-making idea all of a sudden...which I've been trying to do for years....so not likely.
(or I can work my current job which I hate until I'm well into my 60's.)

Some of you should be very thankful for how much you have accumulated.......my stress would vanish instantly if I had what some of you have.
I feel like I'm close to living in a homeless camp after comparing my situation to most others posting here.

Can someone who plans on having a very small amount for retirement post here to make me feel better? :)
I am in awe of you and others who say they live off 20k a year. Don’t be in awe of me. My spouse and I definitely have fat FIRE goals. If I was single, and no aging mom to worry about I could slash expenses in half for sure.

Our 2.4 is also mostly in tax deferred accounts, so that definitely isn’t the same if it was all in after tax accounts.


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wenchsenior

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #126 on: September 06, 2020, 10:46:35 AM »
How much you “need” to RE is very assumption driven, and what you assume is dependent on one’s risk appetite. My spouse and I are worth $2.4m, but if I assume only 3% real return (5% return less 2% inflation), and add a 5% cushion our expenses, and that we live to 90, and that we spend 10k a year for vacation, then only having 2.4m makes for a “nail biting” retirement.

But if I change real return to assume 4%, or take inexpensive vacations, I can retire today. Also, no one in my family has come even close to living to 90. I doubt I will to.

But I’ll still work another 2-3 years to strengthen our financial position while the job iron is still hot. Once I stop working for big salary at BigCorp USA that’s hard to come back from.

When I was younger I thought $2m I’ll retire for sure! Yet here I am still working.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If I had $2,000,000 by 55 or so, or any age whatsoever, I'd be so incredibly happy.
I would never even come close to having to work another day in my life with that amount.

Either I'm way off on what it takes to retire or I spend way less than others.
I usually spend about $20,000 per year. If I spent $25,000 I could have a blast.

I have no way to save more than $500,000 unless I come up with a brilliant money-making idea all of a sudden...which I've been trying to do for years....so not likely.
(or I can work my current job which I hate until I'm well into my 60's.)

Some of you should be very thankful for how much you have accumulated.......my stress would vanish instantly if I had what some of you have.
I feel like I'm close to living in a homeless camp after comparing my situation to most others posting here.

Can someone who plans on having a very small amount for retirement post here to make me feel better? :)
I am in awe of you and others who say they live off 20k a year. Don’t be in awe of me. My spouse and I definitely have fat FIRE goals. If I was single, and no aging mom to worry about I could slash expenses in half for sure.

Our 2.4 is also mostly in tax deferred accounts, so that definitely isn’t the same if it was all in after tax accounts.


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I agree with this. I'm also in awe of my much younger self, who did live for about a decade on 20-25K/year.  But we got older, medical stuff happened, need to help support parents and continue to do so for the foreseeable future happened, etc.  I certainly think that if it were just me living on my own with no obligations, I could probably cut annual spending by 30-50%, depending.  That still wouldn't get me to 20-25K/year though, which is very impressive.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #127 on: September 06, 2020, 01:26:33 PM »
Running my numbers, if I wanted to retire and have my current life with a nice budget for vacations a year ($10k), I’m going to need around $1.5m. If I work for 2 more years after that, I should hit around $2m. That’s my aim for a cushion. If though I moved to somewhere with a LCOL, I could probably retire with $875k and be fine. It’s nice to have the options. Currently security matters a bit more and I don’t hate my job enough (yet, although it’s testing me lately).

Metalcat

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #128 on: September 06, 2020, 04:13:23 PM »
How much you “need” to RE is very assumption driven, and what you assume is dependent on one’s risk appetite. My spouse and I are worth $2.4m, but if I assume only 3% real return (5% return less 2% inflation), and add a 5% cushion our expenses, and that we live to 90, and that we spend 10k a year for vacation, then only having 2.4m makes for a “nail biting” retirement.

But if I change real return to assume 4%, or take inexpensive vacations, I can retire today. Also, no one in my family has come even close to living to 90. I doubt I will to.

But I’ll still work another 2-3 years to strengthen our financial position while the job iron is still hot. Once I stop working for big salary at BigCorp USA that’s hard to come back from.

When I was younger I thought $2m I’ll retire for sure! Yet here I am still working.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If I had $2,000,000 by 55 or so, or any age whatsoever, I'd be so incredibly happy.
I would never even come close to having to work another day in my life with that amount.

Either I'm way off on what it takes to retire or I spend way less than others.
I usually spend about $20,000 per year. If I spent $25,000 I could have a blast.

I have no way to save more than $500,000 unless I come up with a brilliant money-making idea all of a sudden...which I've been trying to do for years....so not likely.
(or I can work my current job which I hate until I'm well into my 60's.)

Some of you should be very thankful for how much you have accumulated.......my stress would vanish instantly if I had what some of you have.
I feel like I'm close to living in a homeless camp after comparing my situation to most others posting here.

Can someone who plans on having a very small amount for retirement post here to make me feel better? :)

You're going to have a rough time if you insist on comparing yourself to others this way.

If you had 2M, you might be incredibly happy or you might be miserable. It would really depend on what it took to get there and how you ended up there.

If you trained for years to become a surgeon and then only ended up making enough to save 2M while living on only 20K, you might not be too happy.

If you had actually saved 20M and then through some bad money moves had lost almost everything and ended up at only 2M, again, you would probably be pretty bummed about it.

For one family, 2M might buy every luxury they could possibly want and make them the richest of everyone they know, for another, it might be really, really difficult to fit in with their friends and colleagues with only 2M, which may or may not matter to them.

As for saving, can you explain why you can't make more money? I make a lot of money, but that's because I put in an astronomical amount of time and energy into developing the skills, education and network needed to get here.

Making money in and of itself is a skill that can be learned. So if you want to make more money, then perhaps put some of your resources towards that. Those of use who make good money typically set out to do so, for some (few) it's luck, but for a lot of us, it's pretty intentional and woven into the fabric of years of decision making.

In particular, if you hate your job, then that's probably your biggest issue. People tend to envy those with money more when what they most want is freedom from circumstances they feel trapped in.

There's a reason I don't envy the 5M, 10M, 25M, 50M, etc folks I know is because I'm not unhappy. My work is remarkably difficult and insanely high pressure, as a lot of well paid work is, but I really enjoy it. I could retire right now if I had a 20K spend, but I have no interest in not working, so I make a lot and can afford to spend more and save a lot.

2M might not fuel such envy in you if the job you had that could get you to 500K was something you really liked doing and you really enjoyed the life it provided.

If you aren't happy, then focus instead on changing something, not worrying about the trade offs other people choose to make in their lives.

Spend some time here, there's A LOT to learn here about career building, not just reducing spending. I've learned a lot of what I needed to be successful from being an active member here.

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #129 on: September 06, 2020, 06:36:04 PM »
I'm 49 years old. I think and think and think, but I can not figure out any way to make more than my current salary.
I don't have any highly-desirable skills in the marketplace. I work for a large manufacturing company and I feel that I pretty much maxed out my potential.
All I have is a business degree which doesn't impress anyone nowadays, and I don't think it should.

I do a great job working at my company, but I do a little bit of everything and don't have a specialty.
I guess the closest description with my current position would be project manager.
I'm not going to get promoted to an executive level because I don't have the personality for it........terrible at the boys-club conversational skills that seem so important where I work.

If I could figure out a way to make more money I would go after it like a madman. I get obsessive, super focused, & super persistent when I actually have a plan.
(You may ask where this has been all these years, and I am embarrassed to admit I went after a stupid idea for years and years, and failed miserably. I could easily retire today if I hadn't made so many disastrous financial mistakes....which makes me even more miserable when I think about it. Lesson learned, but it feels a little late now.)
[/quote]

Then learn some highly desirable skills, learn better conversational skills, learn how to network, and learn what opportunities there are out in the world that you might enjoy.

So you have mistakes and regrets. My entire career went down in flames after I made virtually *zero* money at it because all I managed to do was pay off the enormous debt it took to get there.

I've tried and failed at so many things, but I learned from every single one of them. I had paths ahead of me that requires skills that I was not good at, so I dedicated energy to getting better at those skills, and I'm still doing that so that I don't keep failing.

If what you've tried hasn't worked, and you want something different than what you currently have, then there's only one option: do something different. Figure out your barriers and tackle them systematically.

wenchsenior

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #130 on: September 06, 2020, 06:46:57 PM »
How much you “need” to RE is very assumption driven, and what you assume is dependent on one’s risk appetite. My spouse and I are worth $2.4m, but if I assume only 3% real return (5% return less 2% inflation), and add a 5% cushion our expenses, and that we live to 90, and that we spend 10k a year for vacation, then only having 2.4m makes for a “nail biting” retirement.

But if I change real return to assume 4%, or take inexpensive vacations, I can retire today. Also, no one in my family has come even close to living to 90. I doubt I will to.

But I’ll still work another 2-3 years to strengthen our financial position while the job iron is still hot. Once I stop working for big salary at BigCorp USA that’s hard to come back from.

When I was younger I thought $2m I’ll retire for sure! Yet here I am still working.
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If I had $2,000,000 by 55 or so, or any age whatsoever, I'd be so incredibly happy.
I would never even come close to having to work another day in my life with that amount.

Either I'm way off on what it takes to retire or I spend way less than others.
I usually spend about $20,000 per year. If I spent $25,000 I could have a blast.

I have no way to save more than $500,000 unless I come up with a brilliant money-making idea all of a sudden...which I've been trying to do for years....so not likely.
(or I can work my current job which I hate until I'm well into my 60's.)

Some of you should be very thankful for how much you have accumulated.......my stress would vanish instantly if I had what some of you have.
I feel like I'm close to living in a homeless camp after comparing my situation to most others posting here.

Can someone who plans on having a very small amount for retirement post here to make me feel better? :)

You're going to have a rough time if you insist on comparing yourself to others this way.

If you had 2M, you might be incredibly happy or you might be miserable. It would really depend on what it took to get there and how you ended up there.

If you trained for years to become a surgeon and then only ended up making enough to save 2M while living on only 20K, you might not be too happy.

If you had actually saved 20M and then through some bad money moves had lost almost everything and ended up at only 2M, again, you would probably be pretty bummed about it.

For one family, 2M might buy every luxury they could possibly want and make them the richest of everyone they know, for another, it might be really, really difficult to fit in with their friends and colleagues with only 2M, which may or may not matter to them.

As for saving, can you explain why you can't make more money? I make a lot of money, but that's because I put in an astronomical amount of time and energy into developing the skills, education and network needed to get here.

Making money in and of itself is a skill that can be learned. So if you want to make more money, then perhaps put some of your resources towards that. Those of use who make good money typically set out to do so, for some (few) it's luck, but for a lot of us, it's pretty intentional and woven into the fabric of years of decision making.

In particular, if you hate your job, then that's probably your biggest issue. People tend to envy those with money more when what they most want is freedom from circumstances they feel trapped in.

There's a reason I don't envy the 5M, 10M, 25M, 50M, etc folks I know is because I'm not unhappy. My work is remarkably difficult and insanely high pressure, as a lot of well paid work is, but I really enjoy it. I could retire right now if I had a 20K spend, but I have no interest in not working, so I make a lot and can afford to spend more and save a lot.

2M might not fuel such envy in you if the job you had that could get you to 500K was something you really liked doing and you really enjoyed the life it provided.

If you aren't happy, then focus instead on changing something, not worrying about the trade offs other people choose to make in their lives.

Spend some time here, there's A LOT to learn here about career building, not just reducing spending. I've learned a lot of what I needed to be successful from being an active member here.
I'm 49 years old. I think and think and think, but I can not figure out any way to make more than my current salary.
I don't have any highly-desirable skills in the marketplace. I work for a large manufacturing company and I feel that I pretty much maxed out my potential.
All I have is a business degree which doesn't impress anyone nowadays, and I don't think it should.

I do a great job working at my company, but I do a little bit of everything and don't have a specialty.
I guess the closest description with my current position would be project manager.
I'm not going to get promoted to an executive level because I don't have the personality for it........terrible at the boys-club conversational skills that seem so important where I work.

If I could figure out a way to make more money I would go after it like a madman. I get obsessive, super focused, & super persistent when I actually have a plan.
(You may ask where this has been all these years, and I am embarrassed to admit I went after a stupid idea for years and years, and failed miserably. I could easily retire today if I hadn't made so many disastrous financial mistakes....which makes me even more miserable when I think about it. Lesson learned, but it feels a little late now.)

Ah, a late bloomer.  So were we.  At age 40 (main wage earner) and age 30, we were about 150K in debt and had zero cash investments.   We didn't hit your level of net worth from your old case study until only a couple years before you did.  After that, it grew fast, but b/c of our projected cash flow needs noted in an earlier post, very early retirement wasn't in the cards really.  :shrug: It is what it is. 

Husband is aiming to retire around 62-65 maybe, but he really likes his job, so he's fortunate.  I'm planning to keep working part-time until my late 50s, mainly to build up savings for possible Long Term Care needs for myself, but also to fund a couple of fun things for myself. 

Not everyone here is retiring at 50 with 2 million, for sure.  We'll be retiring with about that much, but more like only a couple years early in my case, and not early in my husband's.

 Have you been able to save as much as you hoped/listed in your case study?  B/C if so, that is phenomenal, and if you want a notable more amount of savings, working just a few additional years would boost you a lot.  Or if you really can't take your job but are as frugal as you report, get a more desirable job, lower paying, and just let that nest egg grow for 2 or 3 more years without touching it.

American GenX

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #131 on: September 06, 2020, 08:54:49 PM »
If I had $2,000,000 by 55 or so, or any age whatsoever, I'd be so incredibly happy.
I would never even come close to having to work another day in my life with that amount.

Either I'm way off on what it takes to retire or I spend way less than others.
I usually spend about $20,000 per year. If I spent $25,000 I could have a blast.

I've spent a very low amount in recent years from my take home pay (direct deposit), spending a little more or less than  $15K/yr total out of my bank account in recent years with very low discretionary spending included in that - averaging less than $1K/yr for entertainment, eating out, etc.  However, I was really spending about another $1K/yr that was coming out of my pay before direct deposit due to health care insurance and some misc expenses, so I probably averaged closer to $16K/yr real spending in recent years when factoring in those deductions that never made it to my bank account.  Now, my property tax and homeowners insurance, increase in workplace health insurance costs, and other expenses are jacking that up quickly another $1K/yr going forward, plus I need to account for about $1.5K/yr for future long term home maintenance of big ticket items, and then another $2.4K/yr toward a future car replacement fund, because those expenses roll around eventually, so now I'm up to about $21K/yr spending that I need to account for on average, even if it's not all spent every year.  Now, figure my health care costs will go up in retirement, but some expenses will go down by a smaller amount, so my estimate for FIRE is  higher at $22,600/yr, although that's still with less than $1K/yr discretionary spending, which is a little tight for being FIREd with all the additional free time, and that doesn't give me much of an expense buffer, either.

That low spending combined with defined retirement income in another decade after FIRE would allow me to get by on well less than $500K of stash (not net worth).   So you are certainly not the only one that has low expenses and able to get to get by on a much lower stash among all of the big spenders on MMM.  However, I saved more than I needed, and I've delayed FIRE a few years longer due to health care coverage uncertainties (despite current good health) and because I like my job, so my stash is closer to $1.7M (that's stash as a single person, not net worth, but my home is paid for).  The good news is that I've built up enough stash that I could potentially spend $40K/yr on discretionary spending once I FIRE.  Crazy, huh?  Going from about $1K/yr discretionary in recent years, usually less, and now jumping up to $40K/yr!  It's hard for me to see myself spending that much on discretionary, and I probably won't because it's just not in my frugal nature, but I expect to open the purse strings some compared to recent years.  I also have a separate account of inheritance money that I'm excluding from these calculations that I might use to buy a new house if I choose to relocate to a higher cost of living area, otherwise, I might do some major expansion and remodeling of my current home and still have a lot left over that I'll have to figure out what to spend it on.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 09:16:14 PM by American GenX »

American GenX

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #132 on: September 07, 2020, 01:48:11 PM »
My current FIRE income is $2500/month. Of that - due to covid - I've only been spending around $500 - $1000/month or less (this includes all taxes, insurances, food, utilities, etc). Once I can travel again I will spend a bit more.
You're my MMM hero.  :)   Is that $2500/mo your investment income or are you talking about your pension - not sure if you're getting that yet.   And you have that windfall-reduced SS benefit to look forward to down the road.  :)

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #133 on: September 07, 2020, 08:01:27 PM »
It's amazing to me how little some of your are living on. Are you all really counting everything?

We (couple in 61 and 63) have been spending in the low $80k area the past few years since DH retired at 59 (though some of that was for one-time purchases/expenses, like a new furnace - if I subtract those, it's a bit more modest). We have no kids, paid-off house, and are not extravagant by any means. Our stash is now up to about $2.5 million, so it seems the $2 million figure is about right. I would be nervous with less, given that we really are pretty careful about spending.

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #134 on: September 07, 2020, 08:19:28 PM »
It's amazing to me how little some of your are living on. Are you all really counting everything?

We (couple in 61 and 63) have been spending in the low $80k area the past few years since DH retired at 59 (though some of that was for one-time purchases/expenses, like a new furnace - if I subtract those, it's a bit more modest). We have no kids, paid-off house, and are not extravagant by any means. Our stash is now up to about $2.5 million, so it seems the $2 million figure is about right. I would be nervous with less, given that we really are pretty careful about spending.

There may be something extravagant that you are just so used to, you see it as normal.

We spend less than that and we both rent in a HCOL and own and maintain a large sailboat, which is clearly an extravagance. And I am including those one off expenses that bring the average up because something else will usually pop up.

American GenX

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #135 on: September 07, 2020, 11:50:10 PM »
It's amazing to me how little some of your are living on. Are you all really counting everything?

I think it was pretty clear in my last post that I'm not only counting my real expenses in recent years, but I'm including expected expenses in FIRE (to be higher), and I'm including money that may not be spent for 5 to 10 years or longer (i.e. long term home maintenance and car sinking funds).

So, that horrible $2M figure is easily at least 4X as much as I would ever need to pay my bills and still have hundreds each month left over for buffer and discretionary spending, so my $1.7M is way more than enough, which means I saved too much and/or worked too long in some respects.  I'll just have to try harder to spend money than I have been while working.  And then, the inheritance is figured separately from budget spending.

Metalcat

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #136 on: September 08, 2020, 04:30:23 AM »
It's amazing to me how little some of your are living on. Are you all really counting everything?

We (couple in 61 and 63) have been spending in the low $80k area the past few years since DH retired at 59 (though some of that was for one-time purchases/expenses, like a new furnace - if I subtract those, it's a bit more modest). We have no kids, paid-off house, and are not extravagant by any means. Our stash is now up to about $2.5 million, so it seems the $2 million figure is about right. I would be nervous with less, given that we really are pretty careful about spending.

Few people think their own lifestyle is extravagant.

That's largely because it takes A LOT of money to break out of the "normal" middle class lifestyle, so even rather high spends don't feel extravagant, they just feel "comfortable".

DadJokes

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #137 on: September 08, 2020, 06:37:17 AM »
It's amazing to me how little some of your are living on. Are you all really counting everything?

We (couple in 61 and 63) have been spending in the low $80k area the past few years since DH retired at 59 (though some of that was for one-time purchases/expenses, like a new furnace - if I subtract those, it's a bit more modest). We have no kids, paid-off house, and are not extravagant by any means. Our stash is now up to about $2.5 million, so it seems the $2 million figure is about right. I would be nervous with less, given that we really are pretty careful about spending.

Few people think their own lifestyle is extravagant.

That's largely because it takes A LOT of money to break out of the "normal" middle class lifestyle, so even rather high spends don't feel extravagant, they just feel "comfortable".

I've been watching The Crown. Even the royal family thinks that their lifestyle is "normal," while living in a palace with servants.

If it's all you've ever known, it'll seem normal. I'm fortunate enough to have lived in relative poverty and my current middle-class lifestyle. I lived alone on under $800/month (expenses, not income) when I was fresh out of high school, and today I live on closer to $4,600/month.

While I wouldn't voluntarily go back to that lifestyle (much more difficult with a family), if shit hit the fan, I know that I could live on a lot less than I do right now.

jim555

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #138 on: September 08, 2020, 10:43:20 AM »
With paid off housing, car, and no medical costs, base expenses can be very low.  Millions of people live on just Social Security, and that averages around $1,500 a month.

slappy

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #139 on: September 08, 2020, 12:12:38 PM »
With paid off housing, car, and no medical costs, base expenses can be very low.  Millions of people live on just Social Security, and that averages around $1,500 a month.

And yet we have this same conversation like clockwork about expenses and how people can't possibly spend so much or so little money. It's almost like personal finance is...personal.

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #140 on: September 08, 2020, 01:59:53 PM »
With paid off housing, car, and no medical costs, base expenses can be very low.  Millions of people live on just Social Security, and that averages around $1,500 a month.

And yet we have this same conversation like clockwork about expenses and how people can't possibly spend so much or so little money. It's almost like personal finance is...personal.
I know it can be done, my mother lives off of social security of 1000 a month. Eh but not really. The 1000 is gone after rent, electric, gas, meds and basic groceries are paid for. I pay her cable, internet and cell phone. My sister supplements her groceries and cat food. And my mom travels no where except to the doc. Just sits all day in her one bed with her cat :-)


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slappy

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #141 on: September 08, 2020, 02:08:44 PM »
With paid off housing, car, and no medical costs, base expenses can be very low.  Millions of people live on just Social Security, and that averages around $1,500 a month.

And yet we have this same conversation like clockwork about expenses and how people can't possibly spend so much or so little money. It's almost like personal finance is...personal.
I know it can be done, my mother lives off of social security of 1000 a month. Eh but not really. The 1000 is gone after rent, electric, gas, meds and basic groceries are paid for. I pay her cable, internet and cell phone. My sister supplements her groceries and cat food. And my mom travels no where except to the doc. Just sits all day in her one bed with her cat :-)


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As long as she is not supplementing cat food in lieu of groceries!

I do actually know people who do relatively well on SS though. Usually it's a LCOL area, paid off home, no debt, etc. Some posters on this thread have budgets that are not much higher than a $1500 SS payment.

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #142 on: September 08, 2020, 02:27:52 PM »
With paid off housing, car, and no medical costs, base expenses can be very low.  Millions of people live on just Social Security, and that averages around $1,500 a month.

But ... “no medical costs”?

Our health insurance costs more than $1,000/month, plus copays.

wenchsenior

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #143 on: September 08, 2020, 02:35:16 PM »
With paid off housing, car, and no medical costs, base expenses can be very low.  Millions of people live on just Social Security, and that averages around $1,500 a month.

And yet we have this same conversation like clockwork about expenses and how people can't possibly spend so much or so little money. It's almost like personal finance is...personal.
I know it can be done, my mother lives off of social security of 1000 a month. Eh but not really. The 1000 is gone after rent, electric, gas, meds and basic groceries are paid for. I pay her cable, internet and cell phone. My sister supplements her groceries and cat food. And my mom travels no where except to the doc. Just sits all day in her one bed with her cat :-)


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I could have written that post, except my mother doesn't have internet or cable, and we pay for her housing and utilities as well.  She has enough to cover groceries, Medicare supplement, meds (minimal), gasoline (not that she ever drives anywhere), her small gardening hobby, and occasional sporadic bills like vet bills, car repairs, furnace repair etc. But she is still dollar to dollar most months.  $1,000/month is a tough way to live.

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #144 on: September 08, 2020, 04:32:55 PM »
While it is certainly possible to retire with a stash of 'only' $500,000, I would caution anyone who is thinking of doing it to be sure they have educated themselves about every aspect of early retirement funding.  At that level it would be easy to find yourself painted into a corner due to unexpected taxes, an unexpected medical bill, a major household repair, etc.  You had better have a really good handle on your spending and then be realistic about how satisfied you will be maintaining that level. 

It can be done and it's possible to be very content at that level, but it isn't for early retirement dilettantes. 

jim555

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #145 on: September 08, 2020, 04:51:54 PM »
With paid off housing, car, and no medical costs, base expenses can be very low.  Millions of people live on just Social Security, and that averages around $1,500 a month.

But ... “no medical costs”?

Our health insurance costs more than $1,000/month, plus copays.
Some have VA or Medicaid coverage which has no substantial costs.

rmorris50

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #146 on: September 08, 2020, 05:05:53 PM »
While it is certainly possible to retire with a stash of 'only' $500,000, I would caution anyone who is thinking of doing it to be sure they have educated themselves about every aspect of early retirement funding.  At that level it would be easy to find yourself painted into a corner due to unexpected taxes, an unexpected medical bill, a major household repair, etc.  You had better have a really good handle on your spending and then be realistic about how satisfied you will be maintaining that level. 

It can be done and it's possible to be very content at that level, but it isn't for early retirement dilettantes.
Preach!


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slappy

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #147 on: September 08, 2020, 05:08:39 PM »
While it is certainly possible to retire with a stash of 'only' $500,000, I would caution anyone who is thinking of doing it to be sure they have educated themselves about every aspect of early retirement funding.  At that level it would be easy to find yourself painted into a corner due to unexpected taxes, an unexpected medical bill, a major household repair, etc.  You had better have a really good handle on your spending and then be realistic about how satisfied you will be maintaining that level. 

It can be done and it's possible to be very content at that level, but it isn't for early retirement dilettantes.

What forum is this? 

NorthernBlitz

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #148 on: September 09, 2020, 04:02:57 AM »
While it is certainly possible to retire with a stash of 'only' $500,000, I would caution anyone who is thinking of doing it to be sure they have educated themselves about every aspect of early retirement funding.  At that level it would be easy to find yourself painted into a corner due to unexpected taxes, an unexpected medical bill, a major household repair, etc.  You had better have a really good handle on your spending and then be realistic about how satisfied you will be maintaining that level. 

It can be done and it's possible to be very content at that level, but it isn't for early retirement dilettantes.

This.

I think it's possible and hope it works for everyone doing it.

But it seems to me that one big expense in retirement (especially early) stinks the plan.

And I think it's easier to guard against sequence of returns if you can ratchet down spending (vs looking for employment in a downturn).

But I'm pretty conservative with my future predictions, so I want cushion. Everyone's plan is their own.

Edited: "how" = "hope"
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 12:29:33 PM by NorthernBlitz »

Metalcat

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Re: CNBC - Savers needs $2M to retire
« Reply #149 on: September 09, 2020, 05:13:27 AM »
With paid off housing, car, and no medical costs, base expenses can be very low.  Millions of people live on just Social Security, and that averages around $1,500 a month.
That's why I was thinking I'd be ok if I saved $500,000 somehow, and then waited until 70 to take full social security.
Not sure how much I'd have then using the 4% rule, but maybe $3,500 to $4,000 per month. Not sure how much after taxes, but I don't think I would ever spend that much except for a medical disaster.

Wasn't really planning on paid-off housing, but rather a small cheap house somewhere.
Of course I'd prefer to be much richer which opens up all kinds of possibilities, but until my brilliant idea comes along I hope my $500,000 plan is ok.

Back to researching now......trying to figure out that brilliant idea I mentioned. Hopefully something clicks soon, because my job is so so horrible.

Perhaps spend some of that research time reading about entrepreneurship and how many people make the mistake of thinking that they need a brilliant idea to be successful?

It's a common illusion that holds a lot of people back.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!