Author Topic: Climate change help  (Read 2856 times)

Chris22

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Re: Climate change help
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2017, 08:40:55 AM »
What if I don't consider it a better world?  Things like trying to force me into high density housing and public transportation and restricting other types of choices do not make a "better" world in my book.
Here in Canada there's a movement afoot to get people to put more insulation in their houses...those bastards! They'll even give tax credits for solar panels, no way I'll fall for it. Fuel efficiency standards are even worse, how dare they tell car makers to make improvements!

You know what created the SUVs you guys love to hate?  Half-assed fuel economy standards.

Quote
low flow toilets

Suck

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and shower heads?

Also suck


Part of the problem is that some of this stuff sucks.  The other part of the problem is that I don't trust the government to put in place legislation for it that makes any kind of sense and isn't riddled with terrible 2nd order effects (like the SUV craze when they classified trucks differently than cars when creating the CAFE standards).
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

AlanStache

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Re: Climate change help
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2017, 09:05:18 AM »
What if I don't consider it a better world?  Things like trying to force me into high density housing and public transportation and restricting other types of choices do not make a "better" world in my book.
Here in Canada there's a movement afoot to get people to put more insulation in their houses...those bastards! They'll even give tax credits for solar panels, no way I'll fall for it. Fuel efficiency standards are even worse, how dare they tell car makers to make improvements!

You know what created the SUVs you guys love to hate?  Half-assed fuel economy standards.

Quote
low flow toilets

Suck

Quote
and shower heads?

Also suck


Part of the problem is that some of this stuff sucks.  The other part of the problem is that I don't trust the government to put in place legislation for it that makes any kind of sense and isn't riddled with terrible 2nd order effects (like the SUV craze when they classified trucks differently than cars when creating the CAFE standards).

Baby + bathwater + toss

Rather than argue for no attempt, you could argue for a better attempt.  I get it some of this stuff is hard but why cant we work for a better system rather than just saying fuck it while fiddling over the ashes.
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kite

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Re: Climate change help
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2017, 09:17:04 AM »
What if I don't consider it a better world?  Things like trying to force me into high density housing and public transportation and restricting other types of choices do not make a "better" world in my book.
Here in Canada there's a movement afoot to get people to put more insulation in their houses...those bastards! They'll even give tax credits for solar panels, no way I'll fall for it. Fuel efficiency standards are even worse, how dare they tell car makers to make improvements!

Also what's up with selling low flow toilets and shower heads? that's downright akin to devil worship! How can I possibly flush my poo with those evil toilets.
Low flow toilets are evil. 

waltworks

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Re: Climate change help
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2017, 11:57:33 AM »
Guys, the low flow stuff and the endless regulations are a big issue for a lot of people.

The easy solution is to charge the actual cost for water, and for carbon, and then refund that money somehow so that it incentivizes what you're going for (being smart about using resources) by *accurately pricing* them.

Putting a regulation on every single home appliance is a waste of time and creates a ton of resentment on all sides. It's a stupid, stupid way to get people to realize that the resources they use have a cost.

-W

daverobev

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Re: Climate change help
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2017, 01:32:47 PM »
Guys, the low flow stuff and the endless regulations are a big issue for a lot of people.

The easy solution is to charge the actual cost for water, and for carbon, and then refund that money somehow so that it incentivizes what you're going for (being smart about using resources) by *accurately pricing* them.

Putting a regulation on every single home appliance is a waste of time and creates a ton of resentment on all sides. It's a stupid, stupid way to get people to realize that the resources they use have a cost.

-W

You're right. Almost everything we do has unintended consequences. We really need to learn from history and learn about how our brains work, so we can make better choices.

As to the original question, well, a couple of cartoons got it more clearly than this, but I like to think of the analogy of a two by two box; the rows are 'do something' and 'do nothing', the columns 'climate change is real' and 'climate change is a lie'. Think of those four outcomes - do something/lie is a much better outcome than do nothing/real.

I try not to think about any of this because it's so scary. And because peoples' responses tend to be so so so selfish - which is exactly how we're 'programmed' - and always makes me think of the 'are we more intelligent than bacteria on an agar plate' question (ie, massive growth then dieoff back to a sustainable population). Are we? Doesn't look like it - seems that we're far too interested in becoming middle class and having big everything.

Particularly in North America, but everywhere else is trying their best to catch up.
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RangerOne

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Re: Climate change help
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2017, 04:43:04 PM »
The one upside of all this governmental idiocy is renewable energies have gained a good deal of traction. Wind and solar power are growing more and more quickly whether the government pushes it now or not.

If anything we may start to see more energy companies push back against the revolution like SDG&E who are trying to control adoption of solar tech to keep their profits growing.

Coal has lost most of its relevance. Gas will still go strong for awhile but many cities could start to shift to renewables and electric transport in the not too distant future. In which case the demand for gas could start to wane in some major areas. Which would be a good thing all around.

Especially considering reducing reliance on gas stands to take away a good deal of power from Russia and Saudi Arabia.

daverobev

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Re: Climate change help
« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2017, 05:18:16 PM »
Coal has lost most of its relevance.

Tell that to Poland, Saskatchewan... and China. Sadface.
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Metric Mouse

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Re: Climate change help
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2017, 07:43:20 AM »
Coal has lost most of its relevance.

Tell that to Poland, Saskatchewan... and China. Sadface.
Or Germany. Or the United States where, you know, over 30% of the electricity (by BTU) is powered by coal, much of which is consumed by low income households. Natural Gas is pushing coal out of the way far faster and at a far lower price than renewables are. Also that pesky Rodney John Allam character... Still much work to do.
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daverobev

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Re: Climate change help
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2017, 08:49:59 AM »
Coal has lost most of its relevance.

Tell that to Poland, Saskatchewan... and China. Sadface.
Or Germany. Or the United States where, you know, over 30% of the electricity (by BTU) is powered by coal, much of which is consumed by low income households. Natural Gas is pushing coal out of the way far faster and at a far lower price than renewables are. Also that pesky Rodney John Allam character... Still much work to do.

Yeah, right - nice one Germany, better shut down all your nukes, just in case you get earthquakes and tidal waves...
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Metric Mouse

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Re: Climate change help
« Reply #59 on: March 21, 2017, 05:44:53 AM »
Yeah, right - nice one Germany, better shut down all your nukes, just in case you get earthquakes and tidal waves...
This made me laugh way to hard this morning.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

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