The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: LoanShark on June 05, 2020, 11:48:19 AM
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Just wanted to pass along a heads up as I try to max out my credit card "arbitrage" as I'm sure many of you do.
I noticed today that Chase has recently put out a new rewards feature in it's "Ultimate Rewards" portal called "Pay Yourself Back". You can essentially use your Ultimate Rewards points plus 50% toward anything dining / food / home improvement store expenditures over the last 90 days.
The Sapphire Reserve always allows you to use your points at a 50% premium toward travel rewards, but now you can essentially do the same thing toward your dining / food expenditures. Pretty sweet if you ask me. I'll be getting an $1,800+ credit toward my next bill.
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Thank you for posting about this. I hadn't heard about it. Before COVID we had opened a new CSP and we used it to purchase a whole bunch of home improvement supplies due to moving. We were wondering if we'd ever get to actually redeem these points for travel! This will be very helpful for us.
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Very interesting. We have a ton of points that need to be used and don't plan to travel by plane much any time soon. I'm not big in the CC hacking game to understand the intricacies, but is this effectively providing the same premium as travel? I understand it's getting 50% more for both travel or dining, but do you get better value when using points instead of booking with a card?
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Is this only retroactive for last 90 days or is there an upcoming deadline for new purchases that points can be credited towards?
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Thanks for sharing! I had just wondered how I was going to use all my points without traveling in the near future. (I've been thinking about closing the card since they jacked up the annual fee, since none of the new benefits are useful to me.)
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Is this only retroactive for last 90 days or is there an upcoming deadline for new purchases that points can be credited towards?
I believe it's good for purchases through June 30th. I've made new purchases and used the feature.
Not sure how it would work for someone with a CSP who upgraded to the CSR and had purchases in the past 90 days. May be worthwhile.
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Have to give Chase major props for their changes to CSR during coronavirus. $100 statement credit towards the annual fee. Extending the $300 travel credit to gas and grocery stores. 5x points on grocery store purchases (4 more points than normal). Now this PYB feature. Glad to have it in my wallet right now even though it's a travel card.
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Have to give Chase major props for their changes to CSR during coronavirus. $100 statement credit towards the annual fee. Extending the $300 travel credit to gas and grocery stores. 5x points on grocery store purchases (4 more points than normal). Now this PYB feature. Glad to have it in my wallet right now even though it's a travel card.
Did you annual fee just renewed ? And they gave you $100 credit ?
It used to be $450 and I heard that they upped it to $550 starting this year.
Mine won't renew until Jan and I won't pay the $550. Its absolutely my favorite CC but its time to let go.
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This feature is great but I save all my Chase points for Hyatt hotels.
Most of the time you can get 2x your point value staying at Hyatt.
For example a lot of their Hyatt Place are 8000 pts and it usually cost more than $160(with taxes) to stay which makes it 2x the points.
We were in Paris and we stayed at the Paris Etoile which cost ~$500/night which effectively makes it 3x the points value.
Yeah hotels are cheap now but I'm saving all my Chase points for traveling when it gets back to normal.
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This feature is great but I save all my Chase points for Hyatt hotels.
Most of the time you can get 2x your point value staying at Hyatt.
For example a lot of their Hyatt Place are 8000 pts and it usually cost more than $160(with taxes) to stay which makes it 2x the points.
We were in Paris and we stayed at the Paris Etoile which cost ~$500/night which effectively makes it 3x the points value.
Yeah hotels are cheap now but I'm saving all my Chase points for traveling when it gets back to normal.
How does this work. Are you transferring your points into Hyatt points somehow? Or are you using the Chase travel portal to book Hyatt hotels?
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Good through 30 Sept:
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-announces-major-temporary-benefits-on-sapphire-reserve-preferred-1-5-cents-cashout-easy-travel-credit-450-renewal/
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holy shit, that's awesome -- I have been stockpiling points for a couple of years now...
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Good through 30 Sept:
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-announces-major-temporary-benefits-on-sapphire-reserve-preferred-1-5-cents-cashout-easy-travel-credit-450-renewal/
Thanks for this info. Even before the pandemic I was planning to downgrade my Sapphire Reserve before my renewal at the end of the year. I was barely getting my $450 worth out of the card benefits before. Between the increased annual fee going forward and the airport lounge benefit becoming much less useful (our family of four would need to pay $29 per visit now that our youngest has turned two and needs his own ticket), the card was looking to be an unjustified expense. Now that they're keeping the old annual fee through the end of the year and offering more non-travel ways to redeem the points, plus the $60 Doordash credit, I'll stay on another year.
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This feature is great but I save all my Chase points for Hyatt hotels.
Most of the time you can get 2x your point value staying at Hyatt.
For example a lot of their Hyatt Place are 8000 pts and it usually cost more than $160(with taxes) to stay which makes it 2x the points.
We were in Paris and we stayed at the Paris Etoile which cost ~$500/night which effectively makes it 3x the points value.
Yeah hotels are cheap now but I'm saving all my Chase points for traveling when it gets back to normal.
How does this work. Are you transferring your points into Hyatt points somehow? Or are you using the Chase travel portal to book Hyatt hotels?
YES, you can freely transfer 1:1 to all Chase partners(marriot, united, hyatt, etc) but Hyatt is by far the best value.
I have never used by Chase points for anything except to transfer them to Hyatt and using them.
I have 150k which would be worth $2250 back but I know I get get more than $2250 value by using them for Hyatt.
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Good through 30 Sept:
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-announces-major-temporary-benefits-on-sapphire-reserve-preferred-1-5-cents-cashout-easy-travel-credit-450-renewal/
Thanks for this info. Even before the pandemic I was planning to downgrade my Sapphire Reserve before my renewal at the end of the year. I was barely getting my $450 worth out of the card benefits before. Between the increased annual fee going forward and the airport lounge benefit becoming much less useful (our family of four would need to pay $29 per visit now that our youngest has turned two and needs his own ticket), the card was looking to be an unjustified expense. Now that they're keeping the old annual fee through the end of the year and offering more non-travel ways to redeem the points, plus the $60 Doordash credit, I'll stay on another year.
It should cost you only $150. You instantly get back $300 back from traveling expenses which could be a lot of things.
When ever the travel expenses reset each year, i just put $300 buying pre-tolls(which is considered travel) and I get that $300 back instantly.
If they keep the $450 I might keep it for another year.
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Good through 30 Sept:
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-announces-major-temporary-benefits-on-sapphire-reserve-preferred-1-5-cents-cashout-easy-travel-credit-450-renewal/
Thanks for this info. Even before the pandemic I was planning to downgrade my Sapphire Reserve before my renewal at the end of the year. I was barely getting my $450 worth out of the card benefits before. Between the increased annual fee going forward and the airport lounge benefit becoming much less useful (our family of four would need to pay $29 per visit now that our youngest has turned two and needs his own ticket), the card was looking to be an unjustified expense. Now that they're keeping the old annual fee through the end of the year and offering more non-travel ways to redeem the points, plus the $60 Doordash credit, I'll stay on another year.
It should cost you only $150. You instantly get back $300 back from traveling expenses which could be a lot of things.
When ever the travel expenses reset each year, i just put $300 buying pre-tolls(which is considered travel) and I get that $300 back instantly.
If they keep the $450 I might keep it for another year.
Currently the $300 "travel credit" works for grocery purchases as well.
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Good through 30 Sept:
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-announces-major-temporary-benefits-on-sapphire-reserve-preferred-1-5-cents-cashout-easy-travel-credit-450-renewal/
Thanks for this info. Even before the pandemic I was planning to downgrade my Sapphire Reserve before my renewal at the end of the year. I was barely getting my $450 worth out of the card benefits before. Between the increased annual fee going forward and the airport lounge benefit becoming much less useful (our family of four would need to pay $29 per visit now that our youngest has turned two and needs his own ticket), the card was looking to be an unjustified expense. Now that they're keeping the old annual fee through the end of the year and offering more non-travel ways to redeem the points, plus the $60 Doordash credit, I'll stay on another year.
It should cost you only $150. You instantly get back $300 back from traveling expenses which could be a lot of things.
When ever the travel expenses reset each year, i just put $300 buying pre-tolls(which is considered travel) and I get that $300 back instantly.
If they keep the $450 I might keep it for another year.
Yes, I am of course aware of the $300 travel credit and use this every year. It is the largest part of the benefit I get from the $450 annual fee. The other parts (3x points on travel and dining, increased redemption value for points earned from Chase Freedom, airport lounge access) have been worth in the $150-$200 range when I have tallied it up at the end of recent years, which has made the $450 annual fee worthwhile. At $550? Not so much.
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Yeah, I just got $1500 in visa gift cards at the grocery store. 5x points, worth 7.5x. Liquidated 10k points to "pay myself back". No brainer since I'm not sure when travel will happen or even if I will renew the card. It's probably still worth it since I've just entered the world of paying taxes and estimated federal and state taxes with gift cards (yes it pens out even with all the fees, as long as you are getting 5x points on gift cards and the CSR 1.5x multiplier).
As a side note, they didn't make it easy. I don't have any trouble using any of my Freedom cards to spend $1500 in a single grocery transaction, but the reserve kept declining. Called them, they said I was good to go. Declined again. Called again. They put a super double secret authorization on the card but I had to do it TODAY. Finally went through.
It's been super annoying since I'm trying to limit outings during COVID. Luckily I had another reason to go to the grocery store each time so it was never an extra trip, but the employees were starting to get a little pissed (they have to throw those unpurchased cards away and I also felt bad at the material waste).
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Yes, I am of course aware of the $300 travel credit and use this every year. It is the largest part of the benefit I get from the $450 annual fee. The other parts (3x points on travel and dining, increased redemption value for points earned from Chase Freedom, airport lounge access) have been worth in the $150-$200 range when I have tallied it up at the end of recent years, which has made the $450 annual fee worthwhile. At $550? Not so much.
Was feeling the same way. At least it's still $450 for all renewals this year. I have no use for a dashpass or lyft pink. I MIGHT have had the card long enough to pay for my global entry renewal -- it's every four years from the date the benefit was last used (I hear) so I wish I hadn't waited so long before using that benefit after I got the card.
Without a ton of gift card usage, it's extremely borderline. Only thing that pushes it over the top is I also have an Ink Cash which gives 5x points on internet, phone, and office supply. Staples $300 gift cards at $9 fee mean each gift card is giving around 4.5% points. Home depot and amazon gift cards 7.5% points effective. Many gift cards you can get e-delivery but unfortunately Amazon you have to go in person. Staples also regularly runs promotions where in-store gift cards have no fee (but the churners usually raid the stock in that case).
Yeah, you lose some consumer protections but I figure I could lose 1 in 50 cards and still come out ahead. Hasn't happened yet.
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I was happy with the extra offerings this year too - especially since we are not using mist of the travel perks. Looks like I will keep it another year at $450...I was thinking of cancelling at $550.
I like:
- groceries are 5x the points until June 30 (I only spent $500 this month since Costco doesn't count so got DH to buy $1000 in grocery gift cards we will use from October onwards (no issues getting the purchase approved). Pity I didn't use my Sapphire Reserve much in May.
- Pay Yourself Back allows redemption for dining, groceries, and home improvement until Sept 30. I have about $2500 in points and this is sooo much better than my original plan to redeem with Chase travel. I much prefer to buy directly from the airlines for the most flexibility (especially now that I am flying more with Frontier for under $30 each way). So I have switched almost all my spending to the Sapphire Reserve and should be able to spend enough in these categories (just barely) to be able to redeem all my UR points.
- I was worried about getting the whole $300 travel credit this year but all set now since they included gas and groceries.
Definitely making me a lot happier with this card.
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Yeah, I just got $1500 in visa gift cards at the grocery store. 5x points, worth 7.5x. Liquidated 10k points to "pay myself back". No brainer since I'm not sure when travel will happen or even if I will renew the card. It's probably still worth it since I've just entered the world of paying taxes and estimated federal and state taxes with gift cards (yes it pens out even with all the fees, as long as you are getting 5x points on gift cards and the CSR 1.5x multiplier).
As a side note, they didn't make it easy. I don't have any trouble using any of my Freedom cards to spend $1500 in a single grocery transaction, but the reserve kept declining. Called them, they said I was good to go. Declined again. Called again. They put a super double secret authorization on the card but I had to do it TODAY. Finally went through.
It's been super annoying since I'm trying to limit outings during COVID. Luckily I had another reason to go to the grocery store each time so it was never an extra trip, but the employees were starting to get a little pissed (they have to throw those unpurchased cards away and I also felt bad at the material waste).
Grocery stores are 5x points now??
So if combined with the increased redemption, works out to 7.5% back?
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Grocery stores are 5x points now??
So if combined with the increased redemption, works out to 7.5% back?
Yes until June 30 Up to $1500
There was another $1500 in May that I missed like a sucka
In case anyone has the Amex platinum they also have extra benefits ($20 per month for phone bill, $20 per month for streaming services). That will pay for the annual fee... except they waived it for me when I Called to cancel. They are losing serious money on me right now so I doubt I can get another fee waiver
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Grocery stores are 5x points now??
So if combined with the increased redemption, works out to 7.5% back?
Yes until June 30 Up to $1500
There was another $1500 in May that I missed like a sucka
I hear ya - I pretty much missed the one in May too. Maybe only spent 100-200 bucks? I don't think they announced it until May 28 though and I was using a different CC for grocery shopping before that.
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I have the CSP card with the 1.25x redemption rate. I also have the Amex Cash Preferred card with 6% back for groceries. So I guess I should move all my grocery spending over to the Chase card and redeem, right? Is there any reason to stick with the Amex for groceries?
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I have the CSP card with the 1.25x redemption rate. I also have the Amex Cash Preferred card with 6% back for groceries. So I guess I should move all my grocery spending over to the Chase card and redeem, right? Is there any reason to stick with the Amex for groceries?
The AmEx is still going to give you a higher percentage cash back for your grocery purchases. The main reason to charge groceries to your Chase card would be if you have a bunch of Chase points that you don't expect to spend any other way anytime soon. If that's the case for you then sure, buy your groceries with your Chase card until the points are gone and then switch back to AmEx.
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I have the CSP card with the 1.25x redemption rate. I also have the Amex Cash Preferred card with 6% back for groceries. So I guess I should move all my grocery spending over to the Chase card and redeem, right? Is there any reason to stick with the Amex for groceries?
The AmEx is still going to give you a higher percentage cash back for your grocery purchases. The main reason to charge groceries to your Chase card would be if you have a bunch of Chase points that you don't expect to spend any other way anytime soon. If that's the case for you then sure, buy your groceries with your Chase card until the points are gone and then switch back to AmEx.
It's always going to be a tough call on opportunity cost. 6% is pretty high for me to give up in order to liquidate points, but I did frequently use Chase points for travel even with access to 5x travel cards. Grocery is a good category for me because I don't have any grocery specific cards. Another choice might be home improvement stores since there are few cards with high multipliers there. Or just wait until October to see if they offer new categories (a gamble)
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We have the CSP, so the Pay Yourself Back feature isn't quite as lucrative. I've thought about cashing the points in since we have a lot, and aren't planning on another trip until next year. However, we also don't need cash for anything at the moment.
We have 305k UR points right now and could redeem up to about almost 100k of them for up to $1,240. Even if we aren't travelling anytime soon, that just doesn't seem like much value. It's taken 18 months to build up that many UR (while spending them here and there); I won't be able to get some of those bonuses for another 2-3 years; and Chase appears to be tightening up restrictions right now as well.
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I got the CSR during the 100k signup bonus period and used the heck out of the points, lounge access, and global entry on a big international trip with my wife. The value of the 3x points earned by my work travel spend more than covered the net $150 annual fee.
Fast forward to today, I have a new job with no air travel, a newborn baby, and over 200k points sitting around. So less opportunity on both the earning and spending side for points. Not sure whether I should hold on to the points and use in the future with my family for hotels / airfare, or just get the cash now. I would like to keep the card for the near term and see how life / work travel / family travel plays out post covid.
My personal redemption value has been around $0.015/point (edit - $0.01625/pt) when used for air travel. So taking advantage of the pay yourself back feature gets me the same value as if I used for air travel.
Thoughts?
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We have the CSP, so the Pay Yourself Back feature isn't quite as lucrative. I've thought about cashing the points in since we have a lot, and aren't planning on another trip until next year. However, we also don't need cash for anything at the moment.
We have 305k UR points right now and could redeem up to about almost 100k of them for up to $1,240. Even if we aren't travelling anytime soon, that just doesn't seem like much value. It's taken 18 months to build up that many UR (while spending them here and there); I won't be able to get some of those bonuses for another 2-3 years; and Chase appears to be tightening up restrictions right now as well.
The Pay Yourself Back feature gives the same value as buying travel through their online portal. That's how I've usually spent my points in the past. I realize that better deals can be found if you look through all their point transfer partners, but I've never put in the time to sort through all that.
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We have the CSP, so the Pay Yourself Back feature isn't quite as lucrative. I've thought about cashing the points in since we have a lot, and aren't planning on another trip until next year. However, we also don't need cash for anything at the moment.
We have 305k UR points right now and could redeem up to about almost 100k of them for up to $1,240. Even if we aren't travelling anytime soon, that just doesn't seem like much value. It's taken 18 months to build up that many UR (while spending them here and there); I won't be able to get some of those bonuses for another 2-3 years; and Chase appears to be tightening up restrictions right now as well.
The Pay Yourself Back feature gives the same value as buying travel through their online portal. That's how I've usually spent my points in the past. I realize that better deals can be found if you look through all their point transfer partners, but I've never put in the time to sort through all that.
Transferring the points to partners is generally the best option, particularly with someone like Hyatt.
However, I discussed this with my wife today. We generally only travel 1-2 times per year, and I think 300k points will last 3+ years, not even including points we'll get whenever Chase decides to lift restrictions (wife and I both denied for new cards back in May). So even if the offer isn't great, we might as well take it while we can.
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We have the CSP, so the Pay Yourself Back feature isn't quite as lucrative. I've thought about cashing the points in since we have a lot, and aren't planning on another trip until next year. However, we also don't need cash for anything at the moment.
We have 305k UR points right now and could redeem up to about almost 100k of them for up to $1,240. Even if we aren't travelling anytime soon, that just doesn't seem like much value. It's taken 18 months to build up that many UR (while spending them here and there); I won't be able to get some of those bonuses for another 2-3 years; and Chase appears to be tightening up restrictions right now as well.
The Pay Yourself Back feature gives the same value as buying travel through their online portal. That's how I've usually spent my points in the past. I realize that better deals can be found if you look through all their point transfer partners, but I've never put in the time to sort through all that.
Transferring the points to partners is generally the best option, particularly with someone like Hyatt.
However, I discussed this with my wife today. We generally only travel 1-2 times per year, and I think 300k points will last 3+ years, not even including points we'll get whenever Chase decides to lift restrictions (wife and I both denied for new cards back in May). So even if the offer isn't great, we might as well take it while we can.
It's not Hyatt, but I have a boatload of Hilton points (like 500k) and another boatload of IHG points. Also not travelling significantly. Might as well get some cash at a higher-than-usual rate on the Chase points.
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PTF
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Yeah I’ve never been able to get on board with the transfer partners even though I realize it’s the best dollar per point value, especially business class. I’ve even priced out certain routes with miles vs portal but it’s never come out well for me to use miles. Not sure if it’s the routes I fly or what, but I just don’t see the value often reported.
I almost never stay at hotels so very limited reason to transfer there. Would be different if I was still traveling for work
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Yeah I’ve never been able to get on board with the transfer partners even though I realize it’s the best dollar per point value, especially business class. I’ve even priced out certain routes with miles vs portal but it’s never come out well for me to use miles. Not sure if it’s the routes I fly or what, but I just don’t see the value often reported.
Hyatt was recommended above. Just as a test I'm pricing out a hotel room in Portland Oregon on the night of October 1st. Hyatt's website indicates two properties in central Portland for 12,000 points and one for 15,000 points. Chase's site has several options in the same part of town for less, including a Hampton Inn with breakfast included for 7,083 points. Maybe I'm searching in the wrong time/place, but the value for point transferring is far from obvious to me. What's the trick you all use to find the superior deals?
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There are various websites that find redemption deals, often seems like pricing errors or luck. If you are flexible I think you can get good value, but I’m not going to just up and take a flight to Dubai just because I can get a business class seat for 1/4 price.
On the other hand being flexible works for regular portal bookings too.
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Grocery stores are 5x points now??
So if combined with the increased redemption, works out to 7.5% back?
Yes until June 30 Up to $1500
There was another $1500 in May that I missed like a sucka
I'm upset I missed both of these! A $1500 grocery spend nets $75 worth of points. And then you can "pay yourself back" the full $1500 using $1000 worth of points. So the $1500 in gift cards costs $925? That's like 40% off. Damn.
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I have the CSP card with the 1.25x redemption rate. I also have the Amex Cash Preferred card with 6% back for groceries. So I guess I should move all my grocery spending over to the Chase card and redeem, right? Is there any reason to stick with the Amex for groceries?
The AmEx is still going to give you a higher percentage cash back for your grocery purchases...
Can you explain the math behind this? I know if anyone can break this down clearly, you can. :)
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I have the CSP card with the 1.25x redemption rate. I also have the Amex Cash Preferred card with 6% back for groceries. So I guess I should move all my grocery spending over to the Chase card and redeem, right? Is there any reason to stick with the Amex for groceries?
The AmEx is still going to give you a higher percentage cash back for your grocery purchases...
Can you explain the math behind this? I know if anyone can break this down clearly, you can. :)
Sure.
Charge $100 of groceries to your AmEx and you get points that can be redeemed for $6 cash. You have to pay net $94. Charge $100 of groceries to your Chase Sapphire and you get points that can be redeemed for $1.50 of travel/groceries/restaurants. You have to pay net $98.50.
$98.50 is more than $94. Ordinarily we would choose to spend $94 instead of $98.50. However if you have a bunch of Chase points that would otherwise sit there earning nothing for a very long time, you might find it a good plan to spend $98.50 worth of Chase points so that you can put that $94 of cash you could have spent on groceries into a productive investment instead.
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I just got the Sapphire Preferred for the sign-up bonus. I didn't know about the increased non-travel categories, so thanks! I never intended to spend the points on travel and assumed I would get the flat $600 cash-out.
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$98.50 is more than $94. Ordinarily we would choose to spend $94 instead of $98.50. However if you have a bunch of Chase points that would otherwise sit there earning nothing for a very long time, you might find it a good plan to spend $98.50 worth of Chase points so that you can put that $94 of cash you could have spent on groceries into a productive investment instead.
...except it's not $98.50 worth of Chase points. It's $66 worth of Chase Points to pay off the $100 grocery bill (based on normal conversion rate of 1 point = 1 cent).
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$98.50 is more than $94. Ordinarily we would choose to spend $94 instead of $98.50. However if you have a bunch of Chase points that would otherwise sit there earning nothing for a very long time, you might find it a good plan to spend $98.50 worth of Chase points so that you can put that $94 of cash you could have spent on groceries into a productive investment instead.
...except it's not $98.50 worth of Chase points. It's $66 worth of Chase Points to pay off the $100 grocery bill (based on normal conversion rate of 1 point = 1 cent).
Right, but we are talking about opportunity costs. The options look like:
AMEX $100 grocery spend costs $100 and generates $6 in points
CSR $100 grocery spend costs $100 (6,667 points) and generates $1.5 in points
CSR $100 flight costs $100 in points (6,667 pats) and generates 0 points
CSR $100 flight costs $100 and generates $4.5 in points
AMEX $100 flight costs $100 and generates $5 in points
You want to use your chase points on the category with the least opportunity cost for you. For some that means grocery or home improvement (my opportunity cost for those is 7.5% using chase ink gift cards from staples). For some it’s flights Or restaurants (my opportunity cost there is only 4.5% using the CSR)
But for me, there’s no getting around the fact that using points gives up SOME opportunity to earn points. That’s just a cost of using points. Its unavoidable so I don’t sweat it too much (yeah in the future they might make an entirely new category that I have 2.25% opportunity cost with the freedom unlimited)
And I’m not planning to travel any time soon. If I buy a $500 gift card from grocery it costs me $506 in points minus $7.59 in earned points, plus $11.25 in lost opportunity to earn points on that $500 spend using my freedom unlimited. So around $10 to liquidate $500 in points. But that $500 can earn $50 (expected value not guaranteed) if I put it in VTSAX for a year. Points sitting in my account until I travel again don’t earn any interest.
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$98.50 is more than $94. Ordinarily we would choose to spend $94 instead of $98.50. However if you have a bunch of Chase points that would otherwise sit there earning nothing for a very long time, you might find it a good plan to spend $98.50 worth of Chase points so that you can put that $94 of cash you could have spent on groceries into a productive investment instead.
...except it's not $98.50 worth of Chase points. It's $66 worth of Chase Points to pay off the $100 grocery bill (based on normal conversion rate of 1 point = 1 cent).
This gets into a question of how we decide what points are worth. I've always valued my Chase Sapphire Reserve points at 1.5¢ apiece because that's the redemption value for travel. In my family we have historically been able to spend the points on travel about as fast as we earn them. The 1¢ cash redemption rate therefore didn't even enter my mind.
A big part of the reason why I have this card and keep using it is the 1.5x bonus on redemption for travel (and now, temporarily, groceries and restaurants). Get rid of that and the advantage of using this card pretty much evaporates. The Citi Double Cash at 2% cash back is my baseline; Chase Sapphire Reserve offers 3% on travel and restaurants if you redeem for cash instead of taking the 1.5x travel bonus, but you have to spend quite a bit more on these things than we do for that extra 1¢ in points to outweigh the annual fee. Start to value the points at 1.5¢ apiece and the math changes quite a bit in favor of the CSR card, especially when you consider that the point transfer ability makes the Chase Freedom rotating categories now worth 7.5%, and Chase Freedom Unlimited worth 2.25%.
But! You can only honestly value the points at 1.5¢ if you can consume them for that value at least as fast as you earn them. With COVID, and prior to having these new categories to redeem the points for the 1.5¢ rate, that was looking like a dubious proposition.
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You want to use your chase points on the category with the least opportunity cost for you. For some that means grocery or home improvement (my opportunity cost for those is 7.5% using chase ink gift cards from staples). For some it’s flights Or restaurants (my opportunity cost there is only 4.5% using the CSR)
Fun fact! You still earn full Chase points on purchases that you later "Pay Yourself Back" for. Opportunity cost: zero.
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$98.50 is more than $94. Ordinarily we would choose to spend $94 instead of $98.50. However if you have a bunch of Chase points that would otherwise sit there earning nothing for a very long time, you might find it a good plan to spend $98.50 worth of Chase points so that you can put that $94 of cash you could have spent on groceries into a productive investment instead.
...except it's not $98.50 worth of Chase points. It's $66 worth of Chase Points to pay off the $100 grocery bill (based on normal conversion rate of 1 point = 1 cent).
This gets into a question of how we decide what points are worth. I've always valued my Chase Sapphire Reserve points at 1.5¢ apiece because that's the redemption value for travel. In my family we have historically been able to spend the points on travel about as fast as we earn them. The 1¢ cash redemption rate therefore didn't even enter my mind.
A big part of the reason why I have this card and keep using it is the 1.5x bonus on redemption for travel (and now, temporarily, groceries and restaurants). Get rid of that and the advantage of using this card pretty much evaporates. The Citi Double Cash at 2% cash back is my baseline; Chase Sapphire Reserve offers 3% on travel and restaurants if you redeem for cash instead of taking the 1.5x travel bonus, but you have to spend quite a bit more on these things than we do for that extra 1¢ in points to outweigh the annual fee. Start to value the points at 1.5¢ apiece and the math changes quite a bit in favor of the CSR card, especially when you consider that the point transfer ability makes the Chase Freedom rotating categories now worth 7.5%, and Chase Freedom Unlimited worth 2.25%.
But! You can only honestly value the points at 1.5¢ if you can consume them for that value at least as fast as you earn them. With COVID, and prior to having these new categories to redeem the points for the 1.5¢ rate, that was looking like a dubious proposition.
I barely come out ahead with the CSR. After the $300 travel credit (which I've used every year), and ignoring other perks which I value at almost $0 because I wouldn't otherwise use, e.g. doordash, the annual fee is $150 (going up next year). This means I need to apply the 1.5x multiplier to 30,000 points to pay for the fee (or spend $5k in travel/restaurants, or some combination of those two). I make this happen using several Chase Freedom cards with 5x bonus categories plus the Chase Ink for Staples gift cards, etc. But without this card ecosystem I'd definitely cancel the card.
There was previously talk that Chase was going to stop letting people transfer points between cards, particularly across accounts within a household. If they did that I definitely would cancel the card.
Not sure what I'll do next year when then increase the fee (or later this year for me). I'll have to run the numbers again I guess.
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You want to use your chase points on the category with the least opportunity cost for you. For some that means grocery or home improvement (my opportunity cost for those is 7.5% using chase ink gift cards from staples). For some it’s flights Or restaurants (my opportunity cost there is only 4.5% using the CSR)
Fun fact! You still earn full Chase points on purchases that you later "Pay Yourself Back" for. Opportunity cost: zero.
No, if I use my CSR to buy groceries I get 1.5% points value but if I use the Chase Ink to buy a grocery store gift card I get 7.5% points value. So by using pay myself back I am giving up 6% in points value on that purchase. But I get to liquidate points, which I want to do, and ultimately need to do since you don't get to take your points with you when you die.
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I barely come out ahead with the CSR. After the $300 travel credit (which I've used every year), and ignoring other perks which I value at almost $0 because I wouldn't otherwise use, e.g. doordash, the annual fee is $150 (going up next year). This means I need to apply the 1.5x multiplier to 30,000 points to pay for the fee (or spend $5k in travel/restaurants, or some combination of those two). I make this happen using several Chase Freedom cards with 5x bonus categories plus the Chase Ink for Staples gift cards, etc. But without this card ecosystem I'd definitely cancel the card.
Agreed. In normal times we spend some on travel, but not $5k. We earn some on Chase Freedom/Freedom Unlimited, but the 50% boost on those points also isn't enough extra to pay the CSR fee on its own. The combination of the two, plus the value of a beer or two and some snacks at the lounge when we get to the airport early, has historically been worth a bit more than $150, but not a whole lot more.
Now with our younger son over age 2, a visit to the lounge costs us $29 so that benefit is gone. The increased annual fee means we need to get $250 worth of benefits from the card...not looking likely.
Now due to COVID they rolled the fee back to $150 net for another year. There are a few restaurants in my neighborhood that will take Doordash, so that $60 benefit hasn't gone to waste either. Unless something changes I expect to cancel our card before our renewal comes around in late 2021.
You want to use your chase points on the category with the least opportunity cost for you. For some that means grocery or home improvement (my opportunity cost for those is 7.5% using chase ink gift cards from staples). For some it’s flights Or restaurants (my opportunity cost there is only 4.5% using the CSR)
Fun fact! You still earn full Chase points on purchases that you later "Pay Yourself Back" for. Opportunity cost: zero.
No, if I use my CSR to buy groceries I get 1.5% points value but if I use the Chase Ink to buy a grocery store gift card I get 7.5% points value. So by using pay myself back I am giving up 6% in points value on that purchase. But I get to liquidate points, which I want to do, and ultimately need to do since you don't get to take your points with you when you die.
I was mostly thinking of restaurants with zero opportunity cost. You get the 4.5% whether you "Pay Yourself Back" with points or not. We get takeout just often enough that it makes enough of a dent in our points that I'm shying away from redeeming them for groceries for the time being.
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I was mostly thinking of restaurants with zero opportunity cost. You get the 4.5% whether you "Pay Yourself Back" with points or not. We get takeout just often enough that it makes enough of a dent in our points that I'm shying away from redeeming them for groceries for the time being.
Fair enough, I hadn't considered restaurants. These days we spend basically zero organically at restaurants. We get doordash/uber once in a while to take advantage of promotions and credits but we're a bit paranoid with elderly people in the household and replate and reheat everything so it's a bit of a hassle we reserve for foods we can't cook well ourselves (mostly ethnic). We're not going to make a dent in our points that way but it would definitely work for other people.
I was happy when I ordered some tea online and it coded as restaurant.
In a normal year, anyone using CSR points to pay for travel is giving up 4.5% in points so that's kinda my baseline comparison for where I don't worry about unavoidable opportunity cost. Less than that is gravy, more than that I think twice. For example, I did make a decent sized purchase at Home Depot but used gift cards instead of the CSR.
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You want to use your chase points on the category with the least opportunity cost for you. For some that means grocery or home improvement (my opportunity cost for those is 7.5% using chase ink gift cards from staples). For some it’s flights Or restaurants (my opportunity cost there is only 4.5% using the CSR)
Fun fact! You still earn full Chase points on purchases that you later "Pay Yourself Back" for. Opportunity cost: zero.
...even if you also get the $300 travel credit. I did all three on one transaction in grocery:
Earned 5x points (part of the promotion earlier for first 1500 in grocery spend)
$300 back from the travel credit (extended to grocery because COVID)
"pay yourself back" with points at 1.5x for the full amount.
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Reported to be extended later, although categories may change
https://milestomemories.com/chase-pay-yourself-back-extended/
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Idea for a new thread, post your hacks to optimize your credit card points. I would start it but I do not follow the credit card guru , we would need someone like dragon car or Seattle cyclone to post their expert understanding of maximizing point values. I just. Open cards get bonus redeem and hope for the best. I was able to get a months worth of groceries covered by my chase Safire bonus, coincidence that I signed up for the card just pre covid.
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Reported to be extended later, although categories may change
https://milestomemories.com/chase-pay-yourself-back-extended/
Great news. As a general FYI, I also saw that the CSR is currently offering 10 points/dollar on streaming services and 5 points/dollar on gas stations (until the end of Sept I believe). I must have opted out of their mailing list because I always seem to learn about these promos late.
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Idea for a new thread, post your hacks to optimize your credit card points. I would start it but I do not follow the credit card guru , we would need someone like dragon car or Seattle cyclone to post their expert understanding of maximizing point values. I just. Open cards get bonus redeem and hope for the best. I was able to get a months worth of groceries covered by my chase Safire bonus, coincidence that I signed up for the card just pre covid.
Thanks for the compliment, but I really consider myself barely past the novice stage in points expertise. I understand cash back percentage deals and make use of those pretty effectively. The real experts know exactly which cards to apply for, and when, in order to get the best possible sign-up bonuses. They also know how to get better deals on their points than simply redeeming them for cash or statement credits.
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Idea for a new thread, post your hacks to optimize your credit card points. I would start it but I do not follow the credit card guru , we would need someone like dragon car or Seattle cyclone to post their expert understanding of maximizing point values. I just. Open cards get bonus redeem and hope for the best. I was able to get a months worth of groceries covered by my chase Safire bonus, coincidence that I signed up for the card just pre covid.
Thanks for the compliment, but I really consider myself barely past the novice stage in points expertise. I understand cash back percentage deals and make use of those pretty effectively. The real experts know exactly which cards to apply for, and when, in order to get the best possible sign-up bonuses. They also know how to get better deals on their points than simply redeeming them for cash or statement credits.
Same! I don't regularly follow the credit card blogs, so usually whenever I think I figured something clever it was posted months ago somewhere else. For example, I stumbled upon the "Chase Trifecta" (https://thepointsguy.com/guide/chase-card-trifecta/) by accident but it's well known in those circles.
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Anyone else sign up for the Chase Freedom Flex? I snagged it today. 20k Ultimate Rewards points for spending $500, plus 5 points/dollar on groceries for the first year. Seemed like a pretty easy win.
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Anyone else sign up for the Chase Freedom Flex? I snagged it today. 20k Ultimate Rewards points for spending $500, plus 5 points/dollar on groceries for the first year. Seemed like a pretty easy win.
Thinking of going for the Sapphire Preferred 80k bonus... but I think I have too much open credit with chase and I have to wait another month or so to get around their 48 month bonus restriction from the CSR. Considering asking them to reduce credit limit on my 4 freedom cards to $5-6k (I kept downgrading to freedom after getting other signup bonuses). What do yalls think about that plan? Only worried when good quarter categories roll around I'll have higher utilization on those cards.
Then maybe I'll change the CSP to a flex. Wife will probably apply for flex and we'll see about her CSR because it's speculated they will need to revamp their benefits to remain competitive against a no-fee flex.
Still waiting for an update on the PYB feature. Many rumors they will extend or modify it, but no announcements yet. Getting antsy to burn up my points as travel isn't in the cards for at least a year.
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80k points is pretty lucrative if you can get it. I looked back at my CSR statements and my 100k signup bonus landed in April 2017, so I have some time left before that 48-month window expires in my case.
I'm also waiting carefully to see what they do about Pay Yourself Back going forward. I did manage to use most of my points on restaurants and groceries, but I'll keep accruing more and it would be good to have something to spend them on going forward. My annual fee is due to post in February. If renewals are back up to $550 by then I'm likely going to use my Doordash credit in January and then cancel.
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Anyone else sign up for the Chase Freedom Flex? I snagged it today. 20k Ultimate Rewards points for spending $500, plus 5 points/dollar on groceries for the first year. Seemed like a pretty easy win.
Thanks for posting. Looks like I've thrown about 75k points at the Pay Yourself Back program since July, so it will good to top up the coffers.
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I'm stoked about the 80k CSP offer. I was planning on getting CSP for the wife in October, so hopefully the offer doesn't get pulled quickly.
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Ugh I was so excited about the CSP offer. I thought P2 was eligible since he hasn't had a CSP in over 4 years. But I think they changed the terms and conditions.....
"You haven't received a new cardmember bonus for any Chase Sapphire card in the past 48 months." Didn't that used to be specific to the card you were applying to, not the entire family?
I got the CSR in 2/2017 which was only a couple months after it came out if I remember correctly. But with the 48 month exclusion timeline, pretty much anyone who ever signed up for the Chase Sapphire Reserve card is ineligible.
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Any word on what the Pay Yourself Back categories will be starting in October?
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Anyone else sign up for the Chase Freedom Flex? I snagged it today. 20k Ultimate Rewards points for spending $500, plus 5 points/dollar on groceries for the first year. Seemed like a pretty easy win.
Thinking of going for the Sapphire Preferred 80k bonus... but I think I have too much open credit with chase and I have to wait another month or so to get around their 48 month bonus restriction from the CSR. Considering asking them to reduce credit limit on my 4 freedom cards to $5-6k (I kept downgrading to freedom after getting other signup bonuses). What do yalls think about that plan? Only worried when good quarter categories roll around I'll have higher utilization on those cards.
Then maybe I'll change the CSP to a flex. Wife will probably apply for flex and we'll see about her CSR because it's speculated they will need to revamp their benefits to remain competitive against a no-fee flex.
Still waiting for an update on the PYB feature. Many rumors they will extend or modify it, but no announcements yet. Getting antsy to burn up my points as travel isn't in the cards for at least a year.
If I were that close, I'd wait the extra month or so to get the CSP and 80K bonus. I have gotten into the habit of lowering credit limits on other cards before applying for the new card. IIRC you can do that by SM since I hate talking to people on the phone.
Personally I plan to product change a Freedom to the new Freedom Flex. I'd rather use that slot for something more interesting...like the CSP in your case.
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If I were that close, I'd wait the extra month or so to get the CSP and 80K bonus. I have gotten into the habit of lowering credit limits on other cards before applying for the new card. IIRC you can do that by SM since I hate talking to people on the phone.
Personally I plan to product change a Freedom to the new Freedom Flex. I'd rather use that slot for something more interesting...like the CSP in your case.
That do you typically lower your limit to? I’ve heard $5k is the minimum for visa signature cards. What should my total extended credit be with chase before I apply for a new card? I’ve heard people run into issues around $60k but I’m beyond that and unfortunately my last income statement to them was much higher than it will be now.
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Interesting. I had $71.5k of credit across four cards before applying for the Flex, and was instantly approved for $16.6k more.
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Interesting. I had $71.5k of credit across four cards before applying for the Flex, and was instantly approved for $16.6k more.
In that case I may not bother with decreasing limits just yet. I’m close to that but not including business cards
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Interesting. I had $71.5k of credit across four cards before applying for the Flex, and was instantly approved for $16.6k more.
In that case I may not bother with decreasing limits just yet. I’m close to that but not including business cards
I had a similar experience. $71k across three personal Chase cards and they gave me another 21k on the Flex.
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From my understanding, Chase will generally let you get to around 50% of household income as a total credit limit.
However, I exceeded that during the last year, so I think it's more of a soft cap.
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Well, it was weird to see 0 points. I used up a whopping $1900 in points via Pay Yourself Back on my Chase Sapphire Reserve.
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If I were that close, I'd wait the extra month or so to get the CSP and 80K bonus. I have gotten into the habit of lowering credit limits on other cards before applying for the new card. IIRC you can do that by SM since I hate talking to people on the phone.
Personally I plan to product change a Freedom to the new Freedom Flex. I'd rather use that slot for something more interesting...like the CSP in your case.
That do you typically lower your limit to? I’ve heard $5k is the minimum for visa signature cards. What should my total extended credit be with chase before I apply for a new card? I’ve heard people run into issues around $60k but I’m beyond that and unfortunately my last income statement to them was much higher than it will be now.
My current open credit with Chase is about half my stated income over 6 cards. I started lowering my credit limits before applying for cards a few years ago. As I got more cards I noticed that the credit limits on each new card was lower than the last. For example, my inital card had a limit of 30K, with subsequent cards limits of 20K and falling. The lowest limit I have on any is 5K.
If you don't hate phone call as I do, you can always wait to see if rejected and then call reconsideration line to move credit around then.
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If you don't hate phone call as I do, you can always wait to see if rejected and then call reconsideration line to move credit around then.
Fair enough. I do hate phone calls, but willing to do it. I'm more worried that with human eyes on account, they will do an income verification which I assume is just a pain even if you aren't lying. There have been some reports that Chase has stepped up income verification.
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So I guess they extended and expanded this. But I already spent all mah points on frivolous stuff like groceries.
https://milestomemories.com/chase-extends-pay-yourself-back/
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So I guess they extended and expanded this. But I already spent all mah points on frivolous stuff like groceries.
https://milestomemories.com/chase-extends-pay-yourself-back/
That's good news. If that CSP bonus is still around next month, I'm going to grab it.
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So I guess they extended and expanded this. But I already spent all mah points on frivolous stuff like groceries.
https://milestomemories.com/chase-extends-pay-yourself-back/
That's good news. If that CSP bonus is still around next month, I'm going to grab it.
Do you know all the current limitations on it? I'm getting close to my 48 months since getting a Sapphire bonus, but I'd have to downgrade a current Sapphire card first. Not sure on the rest.
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Thanks for posting the extension :) This is a great option for us so I am continuing to enjoy it.
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Doesn't look like those extra points for grocery shopping got extended, did it? I haven't been following closely. So just 3x for travel and 3x for dining with my Reserve.
Now that I have used up all $1900 worth of points through Pay Yourself Back, I might shift my spending again. Dining out is obviously still good on the Reserve but I'm moving gas to another card that gives me 2% back.
I'll probably keep groceries but not be too excited about it (i.e. use those grocery gift cards I bought a few months ago). While it is a PYB category, I would only earn 1% in points for groceries. This means I essentially get 1.5% back in groceries. If I spend $100 in groceries, I get 1 point. I can use that 1 point to Pay Yourself Back $1.50 in groceries.
Will have to see if I end up keeping tbe bulk of my spending on the Reserve. 1.5% back is not too bad really. Unless other cards give me better options for whatever reasons.
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Doesn't look like those extra points for grocery shopping got extended, did it? I haven't been following closely. So just 3x for travel and 3x for dining with my Reserve.
Now that I have used up all $1900 worth of points through Pay Yourself Back, I might shift my spending again. Dining out is obviously still good on the Reserve but I'm moving gas to another card that gives me 2% back.
I'll probably keep groceries but not be too excited about it (i.e. use those grocery gift cards I bought a few months ago). While it is a PYB category, I would only earn 1% in points for groceries. This means I essentially get 1.5% back in groceries. If I spend $100 in groceries, I get 1 point. I can use that 1 point to Pay Yourself Back $1.50 in groceries.
Will have to see if I end up keeping tbe bulk of my spending on the Reserve. 1.5% back is not too bad really. Unless other cards give me better options for whatever reasons.
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Do you have an Ink Unlimited Card? That's 1.5% cashback, then you can transfer to the Chase Reserve for 2.25% cashback equivalent.
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Sadly no Ink Unlimited. Not sure if I want to keep hacking for now but if there are some tempting new Chase offers, I may jump on it.
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Doesn't look like those extra points for grocery shopping got extended, did it? I haven't been following closely. So just 3x for travel and 3x for dining with my Reserve.
Now that I have used up all $1900 worth of points through Pay Yourself Back, I might shift my spending again. Dining out is obviously still good on the Reserve but I'm moving gas to another card that gives me 2% back.
I'll probably keep groceries but not be too excited about it (i.e. use those grocery gift cards I bought a few months ago). While it is a PYB category, I would only earn 1% in points for groceries. This means I essentially get 1.5% back in groceries. If I spend $100 in groceries, I get 1 point. I can use that 1 point to Pay Yourself Back $1.50 in groceries.
Will have to see if I end up keeping tbe bulk of my spending on the Reserve. 1.5% back is not too bad really. Unless other cards give me better options for whatever reasons.
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Do you have an Ink Unlimited Card? That's 1.5% cashback, then you can transfer to the Chase Reserve for 2.25% cashback equivalent.
@therethere Is this as simple as using the Ink Unlimited card and then transferring the points to CSR? I did not know about this... thank you
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Mainly posting to follow this thread.
I've been doing light CC hacking using an Amex Platinum for a few years for the travel benefits and just dropped it due to the high cost + no travel due to Covid-19, so the timing was right to jump on the 80k Sapphire bonus.
I applied online, wasn't automatically accepted and received a letter in the mail about a week later "We received your application, please remove the credit lock on your Experian account so we can check your credit", oops, I lifted the lock and called in and was approved about 5 minutes later.
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Doesn't look like those extra points for grocery shopping got extended, did it? I haven't been following closely. So just 3x for travel and 3x for dining with my Reserve.
Now that I have used up all $1900 worth of points through Pay Yourself Back, I might shift my spending again. Dining out is obviously still good on the Reserve but I'm moving gas to another card that gives me 2% back.
I'll probably keep groceries but not be too excited about it (i.e. use those grocery gift cards I bought a few months ago). While it is a PYB category, I would only earn 1% in points for groceries. This means I essentially get 1.5% back in groceries. If I spend $100 in groceries, I get 1 point. I can use that 1 point to Pay Yourself Back $1.50 in groceries.
Will have to see if I end up keeping tbe bulk of my spending on the Reserve. 1.5% back is not too bad really. Unless other cards give me better options for whatever reasons.
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Do you have an Ink Unlimited Card? That's 1.5% cashback, then you can transfer to the Chase Reserve for 2.25% cashback equivalent.
@therethere Is this as simple as using the Ink Unlimited card and then transferring the points to CSR? I did not know about this... thank you
Yes, just transfer your points to your CSR card and redeem them from the CSR account. You can transfer points to any person in your household. Most travel hackers make a Chase pipeline, whereas they keep a CSR card for the 1.5x points redemption. You get other Chase cards for the bonus, then transfer the points to your CSR card for 50% more.
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Doesn't look like those extra points for grocery shopping got extended, did it? I haven't been following closely. So just 3x for travel and 3x for dining with my Reserve.
Now that I have used up all $1900 worth of points through Pay Yourself Back, I might shift my spending again. Dining out is obviously still good on the Reserve but I'm moving gas to another card that gives me 2% back.
I'll probably keep groceries but not be too excited about it (i.e. use those grocery gift cards I bought a few months ago). While it is a PYB category, I would only earn 1% in points for groceries. This means I essentially get 1.5% back in groceries. If I spend $100 in groceries, I get 1 point. I can use that 1 point to Pay Yourself Back $1.50 in groceries.
Will have to see if I end up keeping tbe bulk of my spending on the Reserve. 1.5% back is not too bad really. Unless other cards give me better options for whatever reasons.
Sent from my VCE-AL00 using Tapatalk
Sent from my VCE-AL00 using Tapatalk
Do you have an Ink Unlimited Card? That's 1.5% cashback, then you can transfer to the Chase Reserve for 2.25% cashback equivalent.
@therethere Is this as simple as using the Ink Unlimited card and then transferring the points to CSR? I did not know about this... thank you
Yes, just transfer your points to your CSR card and redeem them from the CSR account. You can transfer points to any person in your household. Most travel hackers make a Chase pipeline, whereas they keep a CSR card for the 1.5x points redemption. You get other Chase cards for the bonus, then transfer the points to your CSR card for 50% more.
Thanks @therethere !
I am familiar with the bonuses and transferring those. I didn't know about the multiplier effect here. Good stuff!
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3x points on grocery Nov-Apr
https://www.chase.com/personal/credit-cards/sapphire-reserve-benefits
https://milestomemories.com/chase-sapphire-cards-3x-on-groceries/
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3x points on grocery Nov-Apr
https://www.chase.com/personal/credit-cards/sapphire-reserve-benefits
https://milestomemories.com/chase-sapphire-cards-3x-on-groceries/
Sweet! Thanks for the heads up.
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Sweet! I can readily hold off grocery shopping again til November.
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3x points on grocery Nov-Apr
https://www.chase.com/personal/credit-cards/sapphire-reserve-benefits
https://milestomemories.com/chase-sapphire-cards-3x-on-groceries/
Awesome! Thanks :)
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Got notice that my CSR annual fee is increasing to $550. Don't see it worth keeping at that price, since I don't eat out very often or see much traditional travel in my future.
Is the conventional wisdom to close the Sapphire cards in order to re-earn spend bonuses down the line (I have a regular Sapphire that I should maybe close too).
Any recommendations for a card with no foreign transaction fees?
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I don't usually close cards, I ask the bank to downgrade it to a no-fee card for the purpose of keeping up my average age of accounts portion of my credit score.
My CSR was originally a CSR, then dropped to a Freedom then got raised back up to CSR and paid for all our groceries for nearly a year on points + pay yourself back.
It's about time to drop it back down again.
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I don't usually close cards, I ask the bank to downgrade it to a no-fee card for the purpose of keeping up my average age of accounts portion of my credit score.
My CSR was originally a CSR, then dropped to a Freedom then got raised back up to CSR and paid for all our groceries for nearly a year on points + pay yourself back.
It's about time to drop it back down again.
I'll have to see if I can drop it down to something. I already have a Freedom, Freedom Flex, and Sapphire.
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I don't usually close cards, I ask the bank to downgrade it to a no-fee card for the purpose of keeping up my average age of accounts portion of my credit score.
My CSR was originally a CSR, then dropped to a Freedom then got raised back up to CSR and paid for all our groceries for nearly a year on points + pay yourself back.
It's about time to drop it back down again.
I'll have to see if I can drop it down to something. I already have a Freedom, Freedom Flex, and Sapphire.
You can end up with multiples of those cards.
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I don't usually close cards, I ask the bank to downgrade it to a no-fee card for the purpose of keeping up my average age of accounts portion of my credit score.
My CSR was originally a CSR, then dropped to a Freedom then got raised back up to CSR and paid for all our groceries for nearly a year on points + pay yourself back.
It's about time to drop it back down again.
I'll have to see if I can drop it down to something. I already have a Freedom, Freedom Flex, and Sapphire.
You can end up with multiples of those cards.
There are 5 chase freedom (classic) cards in our household (plus an unlimited and a flex). I think they are discontinuing the freedom classic so may not be an option. The freedom flex is a good choice as long as you don't want that relatively low bonus.
Chase has been getting super aggressive with their sapphire products. I believe you need to wait 4 years now from the last sapphire signup bonus and you not eligible if you currently have any sapphire card. So yeah, "product change" in industry parlance is probably a good bet if you don't get your money's worth on CSR.
Also note:
If you've had the CSR at least four years, you may qualify for another global entry credit so consider doing that before you product change
For the longest time there were zero retention options for CSR. It's looking like that changed this year and it's at least possible (if unlikely) that you can get a retention bonus/credit. It might not be enough to change your mind but you should go into it knowing what you'd accept ($100 credit? $200?)
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There are 5 chase freedom (classic) cards in our household (plus an unlimited and a flex). I think they are discontinuing the freedom classic so may not be an option. The freedom flex is a good choice as long as you don't want that relatively low bonus.
Chase has been getting super aggressive with their sapphire products. I believe you need to wait 4 years now from the last sapphire signup bonus and you not eligible if you currently have any sapphire card. So yeah, "product change" in industry parlance is probably a good bet if you don't get your money's worth on CSR.
I have two sapphire cards, both opened 4+ years ago. The current preferred bonus is pretty attractive. What would be the path to earning it, changing both to another product, waiting a few cycles, and applying?
If you've had the CSR at least four years, you may qualify for another global entry credit so consider doing that before you product change
Did that yesterday! Refund posted this morning and was approved by CBP. Thankfully no interview required for the renewal.
For the longest time there were zero retention options for CSR. It's looking like that changed this year and it's at least possible (if unlikely) that you can get a retention bonus/credit. It might not be enough to change your mind but you should go into it knowing what you'd accept ($100 credit? $200?)
Good to know! Thanks for all the info.
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I have two sapphire cards, both opened 4+ years ago. The current preferred bonus is pretty attractive. What would be the path to earning it, changing both to another product, waiting a few cycles, and applying?
Yeah, I think you would have to product change both to something else before you apply for another sapphire card. And then make sure it's been over 4 years since you opened your last sapphire card (which according to you it is).
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I have two sapphire cards, both opened 4+ years ago. The current preferred bonus is pretty attractive. What would be the path to earning it, changing both to another product, waiting a few cycles, and applying?
Yeah, I think you would have to product change both to something else before you apply for another sapphire card. And then make sure it's been over 4 years since you opened your last sapphire card (which according to you it is).
I thought it was 4 years after you received the bonus, not when you applied for the original card. So add 1-3 months.
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I have two sapphire cards, both opened 4+ years ago. The current preferred bonus is pretty attractive. What would be the path to earning it, changing both to another product, waiting a few cycles, and applying?
Yeah, I think you would have to product change both to something else before you apply for another sapphire card. And then make sure it's been over 4 years since you opened your last sapphire card (which according to you it is).
I thought it was 4 years after you received the bonus, not when you applied for the original card. So add 1-3 months.
Good point I have no idea but you’re probably right. I usually get my bonus ASAP cause I already have spend in mind so it’s not a big difference to me but play it safe unless a sweet bonus is expiring
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Don't know if I'm completely off-base but I've always thought it best to cancel completely so I can requalify to get the card in the future. Also if I downgrade, I lose the potential to get the bonus on the lower end card. I do keep a few old cards hanging around for age of credit scores.
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This feature is back on the CSP card, I just cashed in 90k points for $1200 statement credit.
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This feature is back on the CSP card, I just cashed in 90k points for $1200 statement credit.
We just did the same! Only with a smaller amount of points. Can't beat the 25% point value bonus on purchases you've already made vs. needing to spend on travel to maximize the point potential. I find that frequently the hotel rooms that offer the same bonus (25%) are more pricey accommodations that we wouldn't choose, so not particularly valuable for us.
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I have been using Pay Yourself Back for the past year. LOVE using the points on dining out :) Like some pointed out, I don't always find it as valuable for travel booked through their portal.
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We just use PYB for a nice $720 credit.
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Tough choice this month on PYB vs. the 5%/7.5% back on Chase Freedom grocery category.
Usually I've been doing PYB on grocery purchases but this month that means forgoing the bonus on chase freedom.
I'll probably end up just maxing out the category with $500 VGC but it might not be optimal.
I don't have the kind of organic restaurant spend to go that route with PYB.
Is it all ending in september? My points balance finally hit zero but it's a nice feature
In other news, AMEX Platinum is raising the AF to $700. There are a bunch of new benefits that I have no use for. Unless I get a seriously amazing retention offer it's going down the stairs but I'll still be a little sad because I truly milked that sucker for all it was worth.
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Starting to get nervous about the end date 9/30. Plenty of rumors say they will extend again, possibly with new categories. But I'm currently maxing out our 6 Freedom cards in the grocery category = $675 worth of points. My statements close mid-month so if I don't finish soon, I will receive the points in October. Of course I'd prefer to make the purchases immediately after the statement closes so as to float the payment an extra month. So I have to decide whether to risk getting points after the program ends or risk accelerating my payments by a month.
Thinking of downgrading the CSR and getting the CSP bonus. My wife has the CSP so she could upgrade to the CSR when it's time to burn points/travel (we haven't traveled since the pandemic)
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Starting to get nervous about the end date 9/30. Plenty of rumors say they will extend again, possibly with new categories. But I'm currently maxing out our 6 Freedom cards in the grocery category = $675 worth of points. My statements close mid-month so if I don't finish soon, I will receive the points in October. Of course I'd prefer to make the purchases immediately after the statement closes so as to float the payment an extra month. So I have to decide whether to risk getting points after the program ends or risk accelerating my payments by a month.
Thinking of downgrading the CSR and getting the CSP bonus. My wife has the CSP so she could upgrade to the CSR when it's time to burn points/travel (we haven't traveled since the pandemic)
If by "downgrading" the CSR you mean product changing from CSR to CSP you won't get a bonus. (Same with your wife's situation.) You could product change to a no-fee Freedom card and then apply for a "new" CSP and get the bonus. That asssumes its been 48 months since you last got a signing bonus for any Sapphire card.
Maybe you understand this and I'm just nitpicking language.
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Product change CSR to freedom
Apply for new CSP to get sweet bonus
Upgrade wifes CSP to CSR if/when we want those benefits. No bonus, already got the CSP bonus. Yes it would be possible to PC that CSP To another freedom but would have to wait years before eligible for another sapphire bonus
So yeah basically this is just a way to get another sapphire bonus without losing access to CSR benefits. The CSP also has a higher bonus than CSR (last time I checked)
That said, I feel we are hitting the limits with chase. I have 5 personal cards and 2 business cards. Last few applications were approved but with a delay. They moved my credit lines around (didn't need to call reconsideration).
Chase really is the best. They got me in their ecosystem. We are canceling our amex platinum with the recent price increase. They lost so much money on us it's not even funny. If they waive the fee again I'm in, but there's no way I'm paying $700 for all these useless "benefits" (even the travel credit is a pain in the ass to use)
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I plan to cancel my CSR before the next annual fee comes around in February. They sent me a letter that the $100 fee increase will be happening for real this time, and I don't get quite enough value out of the card to justify that (especially now that I almost never use airports with qualifying lounges). If I get the opportunity to get a sweet CSP bonus a few months later so much the better!
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I plan to cancel my CSR before the next annual fee comes around in February. They sent me a letter that the $100 fee increase will be happening for real this time, and I don't get quite enough value out of the card to justify that (especially now that I almost never use airports with qualifying lounges). If I get the opportunity to get a sweet CSP bonus a few months later so much the better!
I'm in the same boat. I think my renewal is Feb 10th.
I will cancel this time around even if they give me a $100 credit to remain @$450.
Been getting the $300 "travel" credit around Dec so I will get that before canceling.
It's been 4 yrs since I've had the CSR so hopefully after I cancel, the CSP still have the 100k bonus that I can sign up for.
BTW, my wife did the 100k CSP sign up in branch where they waived the $95 annual fee and a $50 grocery credit.
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I kind of suspect the 100k CSP bonus will be reduced soon, or the four-year wait will be increased, because there are a lot of us early CSR customers who got 100k from that nearly four years ago and are in a position to maybe do it again if we cancel our accounts. I doubt Chase wants a bunch of people doing that all at once.
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I kind of suspect the 100k CSP bonus will be reduced soon, or the four-year wait will be increased, because there are a lot of us early CSR customers who got 100k from that nearly four years ago and are in a position to maybe do it again if we cancel our accounts. I doubt Chase wants a bunch of people doing that all at once.
I got the CSR early and jumped for the 80k CSP offer like a SUCKA. Hope 100k holds out
I also got the CSP bonus like 6 years ago so I can see why they added the 4 year language. Too easy to game
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Thanks for the nudge! I checked and my fee hit yesterday. Just called and downgraded.
I haven't gotten a Sapphire bonus since the CSR debuted. That means I'm eligible for the CSP bonus? Can I apply right away, or do I need to wait for processing time, etc. for my CSR closure?
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We just converted points into $1,450.
Every time I do it, I think that I'm going to regret not having the points for travel, but I haven't regretted any of the conversions yet. We're getting more points from airline & hotel cards than we can spend on the 1-2 vacations we take each year.
Edit: I just looked to see how much we've gotten from the Pay Yourself Back feature with our CSP cards.
2020: $1,244
2021: $3,347
Total: $4,591
That's not bad at all.
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Thanks for the nudge! I checked and my fee hit yesterday. Just called and downgraded.
I haven't gotten a Sapphire bonus since the CSR debuted. That means I'm eligible for the CSP bonus? Can I apply right away, or do I need to wait for processing time, etc. for my CSR closure?
I would play it safe and wait a week after you cancelled the previous card.
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I did notice that Chase is allowing (at a minimum) CSR customers to use the Pay Yourself Back feature to pay for the annual fee. Mine hit 1-Sep and I just successfully used points to pay the fee, instead of shutting it down this year. Might shut it down next year, if the points option isn't available. $450 is manageable, but $550 doesn't break even for me.
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Thanks for the nudge! I checked and my fee hit yesterday. Just called and downgraded.
I haven't gotten a Sapphire bonus since the CSR debuted. That means I'm eligible for the CSP bonus? Can I apply right away, or do I need to wait for processing time, etc. for my CSR closure?
Absolutely.
Cancel and wait a few weeks.
Not sure what card you downgraded to but hopefully not the plain no-fee Sapphire.
You can also send Chase a secure message and ask if you're eligible for the 100k CSP bonus.
My wife cancel her old CSP last year and when the 100k appeared I secured message them asking if she's eligible. It was a YES so we re-applied. It's good to have things documented.
Also make sure you know someone with a CSP that can refer you. they get a 20k pts bonus. It's funny but I've been peddling my friend to sign up. Told them we'll pay for your annual fee if you get approved. Win win for both parties.
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Thanks for the nudge! I checked and my fee hit yesterday. Just called and downgraded.
I haven't gotten a Sapphire bonus since the CSR debuted. That means I'm eligible for the CSP bonus? Can I apply right away, or do I need to wait for processing time, etc. for my CSR closure?
I downgraded just a few days before you and couldn’t find guidance on how long to wait, so I’m planning to apply after my first statement with the new card.
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Thanks for the nudge! I checked and my fee hit yesterday. Just called and downgraded.
I haven't gotten a Sapphire bonus since the CSR debuted. That means I'm eligible for the CSP bonus? Can I apply right away, or do I need to wait for processing time, etc. for my CSR closure?
I downgraded just a few days before you and couldn’t find guidance on how long to wait, so I’m planning to apply after my first statement with the new card.
I think I’m going to pull the trigger soon. I want to liquidate all my points in the next few days and then cancel before the AF hits. Unfortunately I waited over a year to use the first global entry credit so I won’t be able to get a second one.
The CSP bonus is too good to pass up. Hopefully it lasts and my high utilization isn’t a problem (multiple cards around 25% and one over 30% because I’m carrying an interest free balance)
Can someone remind me how much total credit chase will extend? 50% of stated income?
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Question for any of you that are more experienced with UR rewards points than me (we have CSP) -
I have the chase sapphire preferred (so does my wife) - our points have posted and I had planned on using them for travel. But, Is there any benefit to using them for travel VS using the pay yourself back feature?
If we book through the chase UR travel portal I know you get 25% points back. But if we don't book through that portal (we have a destination wedding in the spring that we may have to book with the whole family through some other means [travel agent or directly through the resort]), do we get the same value if we just pay ourselves back for purchases now?
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Right now, PYB gives the same bonus as booking travel through the portal
Downside of PYB is potentially some lost opportunity to pay for that category with a higher rewards card (for example CSR gives only 1% on groceries but some Amex give 5%)
On the flip side, I believe many chase cards now have 5% back if you book through the portal (up to 7.5% value with CSR). So you give up that high earning by cashing out points. This was always a downside with travel because you would give up the 2-3% cash back by paying dollars for a flight but back then there was no other good redemption option
Downside of travel is you have to book through chase which is run by Expedia. I’ve run into issues numerous times with these bookings when they transfer these bookings to the actual airline.* It’s not a deal breaker but all things equal I’d prefer to book my travel directly with an airline when possible
Crap I realize now that’s just a slightly less clear rehash of this: https://milestomemories.com/chase-travel-portal-is-completely-useless/
*for example one time I booked a trip with a lap infant. Obviously I filled out the information correctly. But when I went to check in, I couldn’t. I had to call the airline and wait on hold for hours because somehow the Expedia backend put a lap infant on both adult fares and they can’t have two lap infants in the same row. Also had problems where the seat sections did not go through, and airline website would not let me assign because the reservation was “owned” by the trave agency (chase). But then I call chase and they say contact the airline. The I call the airline and they say call chase. Personally I think the buck should stop with the airline when assigning seats and correcting mistakes but it can be frustrating when there’s someone else to blame. When you call the number on the back of the card you do get a “travel agency” that can help you solve more complicated issues, which is nice in theory but IME not worth the hassle of reading a bunch of passport numbers and spelling names out just to see they were mistyped. Also depending on the time of day you might get someone better or worse. Don’t recommend calling late at night although kudos to them they do have someone available
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Update: I downgraded my CSR to a Freedom Unlimited one week ago. Today I checked and in my Chase.com account, it was showing up as the new Freedom Unlimited, so I figured I'd go ahead and try applying for the CSP. It worked! I was approved instantly. Hooray for 100k points!
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I think I missed the boat on this CSP offer... Can someone enlighten me? I found an offer online for 100K listed as "best ever".
DW and I have had CSR's in the past and one of us had (maybe both) had CSP. Is there a time limit on when the previous CSP had to be closed or converted? (We converted all but 1 CSR between the two of us).
thanks for catching me up!!
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I think I missed the boat on this CSP offer... Can someone enlighten me? I found an offer online for 100K listed as "best ever".
DW and I have had CSR's in the past and one of us had (maybe both) had CSP. Is there a time limit on when the previous CSP had to be closed or converted? (We converted all but 1 CSR between the two of us).
thanks for catching me up!!
That's what I got yesterday on SO's referral. Is there something better than 100k?
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I think I missed the boat on this CSP offer... Can someone enlighten me? I found an offer online for 100K listed as "best ever".
DW and I have had CSR's in the past and one of us had (maybe both) had CSP. Is there a time limit on when the previous CSP had to be closed or converted? (We converted all but 1 CSR between the two of us).
thanks for catching me up!!
That's what I got yesterday on SO's referral. Is there something better than 100k?
Not that I know of.
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I think I missed the boat on this CSP offer... Can someone enlighten me? I found an offer online for 100K listed as "best ever".
DW and I have had CSR's in the past and one of us had (maybe both) had CSP. Is there a time limit on when the previous CSP had to be closed or converted? (We converted all but 1 CSR between the two of us).
thanks for catching me up!!
You can only get bonus once every 48 months. So if you got either csr or csp bonus in last 4 years, you can't get it again.
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I had planned to keep the CSR, because the $150 was offset by not buying other travel insurance when cruising. Do others here think the CSR coverage is sufficient? Does the CSP have the same coverage?
I was on the verge of canceling since I didn't know if I'd ever cruise again when the PYB started. I'm probably offsetting the $150, but not sure about $250. I only charge about $15-20k per year.
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I think I missed the boat on this CSP offer... Can someone enlighten me? I found an offer online for 100K listed as "best ever".
DW and I have had CSR's in the past and one of us had (maybe both) had CSP. Is there a time limit on when the previous CSP had to be closed or converted? (We converted all but 1 CSR between the two of us).
thanks for catching me up!!
The one I'm doing is spend $4k in some monthly time frame and receive 100,000 points, which I was assuming I would take as a statement credit of $1,000. This is on the CSP card with a $95 yearly fee.
I've not looked into the PYB feature to see how it works, this is my first Chase card.
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I think I missed the boat on this CSP offer... Can someone enlighten me? I found an offer online for 100K listed as "best ever".
DW and I have had CSR's in the past and one of us had (maybe both) had CSP. Is there a time limit on when the previous CSP had to be closed or converted? (We converted all but 1 CSR between the two of us).
thanks for catching me up!!
You can only get bonus once every 48 months. So if you got either csr or csp bonus in last 4 years, you can't get it again.
Thanks for the heads up on this. I just called to downgrade my CSR card and will apply for the 100k CSP bonus in a few weeks.
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I think I missed the boat on this CSP offer... Can someone enlighten me? I found an offer online for 100K listed as "best ever".
DW and I have had CSR's in the past and one of us had (maybe both) had CSP. Is there a time limit on when the previous CSP had to be closed or converted? (We converted all but 1 CSR between the two of us).
thanks for catching me up!!
You can only get bonus once every 48 months. So if you got either csr or csp bonus in last 4 years, you can't get it again.
Thanks!
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Update: I downgraded my CSR to a Freedom Unlimited one week ago. Today I checked and in my Chase.com account, it was showing up as the new Freedom Unlimited, so I figured I'd go ahead and try applying for the CSP. It worked! I was approved instantly. Hooray for 100k points!
Based on your success, I tried today (about a week after downgrading) and got a "We need to take a closer look at your application, we'll let you know" message. I think I've got these from other issuers in the past, usually before getting denied. Too bad.
Can someone remind me how much total credit chase will extend? 50% of stated income?
I have $92k in credit from Chase on a $210k stated income (and $209k total credit across all issuers). Thinking I will be getting denied for the CSP, but we will see. I wonder if someone at a branch can help me, maybe by closing some Chase cards.
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Update: I downgraded my CSR to a Freedom Unlimited one week ago. Today I checked and in my Chase.com account, it was showing up as the new Freedom Unlimited, so I figured I'd go ahead and try applying for the CSP. It worked! I was approved instantly. Hooray for 100k points!
Based on your success, I tried today (about a week after downgrading) and got a "We need to take a closer look at your application, we'll let you know" message. I think I've got these from other issuers in the past, usually before getting denied. Too bad.
Can someone remind me how much total credit chase will extend? 50% of stated income?
I have $92k in credit from Chase on a $210k stated income (and $209k total credit across all issuers). Thinking I will be getting denied for the CSP, but we will see. I wonder if someone at a branch can help me, maybe by closing some Chase cards.
This happens to me all the time and always works out fine. It looks like a new 20-30k credit line would put you over 50%. What happened last time is they reduced the credit line on one of my cards and then approved me.
Here’s a summary to check the status (this information is available severa places but this is the first google result it may be a shitty website double check the phone number before entering personal info): https://dealspoints.com/chase-application-status/
Personally I would check the automated phone status method and hope it works out. If you do get denied, call reconsideration and ask them to move your credit line around. But if you have a good credit profile chances are they will make it work for you and you’ll get the “2 weeks” message within a couple days
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Update: I downgraded my CSR to a Freedom Unlimited one week ago. Today I checked and in my Chase.com account, it was showing up as the new Freedom Unlimited, so I figured I'd go ahead and try applying for the CSP. It worked! I was approved instantly. Hooray for 100k points!
Based on your success, I tried today (about a week after downgrading) and got a "We need to take a closer look at your application, we'll let you know" message. I think I've got these from other issuers in the past, usually before getting denied. Too bad.
Can someone remind me how much total credit chase will extend? 50% of stated income?
I have $92k in credit from Chase on a $210k stated income (and $209k total credit across all issuers). Thinking I will be getting denied for the CSP, but we will see. I wonder if someone at a branch can help me, maybe by closing some Chase cards.
This happens to me all the time and always works out fine. It looks like a new 20-30k credit line would put you over 50%. What happened last time is they reduced the credit line on one of my cards and then approved me.
Here’s a summary to check the status (this information is available severa places but this is the first google result it may be a shitty website double check the phone number before entering personal info): https://dealspoints.com/chase-application-status/
Personally I would check the automated phone status method and hope it works out. If you do get denied, call reconsideration and ask them to move your credit line around. But if you have a good credit profile chances are they will make it work for you and you’ll get the “2 weeks” message within a couple days
Awesome info. Thanks!
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Question for any of you that are more experienced with UR rewards points than me (we have CSP) -
I have the chase sapphire preferred (so does my wife) - our points have posted and I had planned on using them for travel. But, Is there any benefit to using them for travel VS using the pay yourself back feature?
If we book through the chase UR travel portal I know you get 25% points back. But if we don't book through that portal (we have a destination wedding in the spring that we may have to book with the whole family through some other means [travel agent or directly through the resort]), do we get the same value if we just pay ourselves back for purchases now?
I have always transfer Chase pts to Hyatt or Southwest. Best value for your points.
Most Hyatt Place are 8,000 pts and that translate to $100 in PYB. I usually only use points for Hyatt when I can get 1.5x or 2x the value.
We went to Paris and stayed at the Hyatt Regency Paris Étoile which cost 15k/night. At that time the rooms were over $500/night making it over 3x the value.
Southwest is the same .A lot of their one way flights are under 10k. Especially is you have companion pass for SW, the points become even sweeter.
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Question for any of you that are more experienced with UR rewards points than me (we have CSP) -
I have the chase sapphire preferred (so does my wife) - our points have posted and I had planned on using them for travel. But, Is there any benefit to using them for travel VS using the pay yourself back feature?
If we book through the chase UR travel portal I know you get 25% points back. But if we don't book through that portal (we have a destination wedding in the spring that we may have to book with the whole family through some other means [travel agent or directly through the resort]), do we get the same value if we just pay ourselves back for purchases now?
I have always transfer Chase pts to Hyatt or Southwest. Best value for your points.
Most Hyatt Place are 8,000 pts and that translate to $100 in PYB. I usually only use points for Hyatt when I can get 1.5x or 2x the value.
We went to Paris and stayed at the Hyatt Regency Paris Étoile which cost 15k/night. At that time the rooms were over $500/night making it over 3x the value.
Southwest is the same .A lot of their one way flights are under 10k. Especially is you have companion pass for SW, the points become even sweeter.
Great info - thanks!
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I think I missed the boat on this CSP offer... Can someone enlighten me? I found an offer online for 100K listed as "best ever".
DW and I have had CSR's in the past and one of us had (maybe both) had CSP. Is there a time limit on when the previous CSP had to be closed or converted? (We converted all but 1 CSR between the two of us).
thanks for catching me up!!
The one I'm doing is spend $4k in some monthly time frame and receive 100,000 points, which I was assuming I would take as a statement credit of $1,000. This is on the CSP card with a $95 yearly fee.
I've not looked into the PYB feature to see how it works, this is my first Chase card.
With PYB, you can reimburse restaurant/grocery spending on the card with points, making it better than just taking the statement credit.
Let's say you bought groceries for $125. You could redeem 10,000 points and get a $125 credit on your card. With this, your 100,000 points are worth $1,250.
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I think I missed the boat on this CSP offer... Can someone enlighten me? I found an offer online for 100K listed as "best ever".
DW and I have had CSR's in the past and one of us had (maybe both) had CSP. Is there a time limit on when the previous CSP had to be closed or converted? (We converted all but 1 CSR between the two of us).
thanks for catching me up!!
The one I'm doing is spend $4k in some monthly time frame and receive 100,000 points, which I was assuming I would take as a statement credit of $1,000. This is on the CSP card with a $95 yearly fee.
I've not looked into the PYB feature to see how it works, this is my first Chase card.
With PYB, you can reimburse restaurant/grocery spending on the card with points, making it better than just taking the statement credit.
Let's say you bought groceries for $125. You could redeem 10,000 points and get a $125 credit on your card. With this, your 100,000 points are worth $1,250.
Thanks, I did see a reference to buying grocery store gift cards on, I think, Doctor of Credit, so that makes sense now.
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I wonder how fast you can upgrade to CSR. CSR is more expensive of course. 550 vs 95, so 455 more expensive. There is a $300 travel credit that I believe still counts towards groceries and gas, so I value that almost fully. So CSR is $155 more even if you don’t care about the global entry credit and other random stuffs
But the PYB (or travel) multiplier on CSR is 1.5 vs 1.25. So some simple math tells me that if you cash out $155/.25 = 62,000 points in a year you come out ahead
Missing anything?
Why do I run these numbers? Because the CSP bonus is 100k! Also because if have a freedom and max out rotating categories in a year you are getting 30k points. If you have two, 60k. In other words, the chase ecosystem is dope if you are super down the rabbit hole (and if you pick up a business ink you get lots of gift card opportunities at staples/office stores)
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Update: I downgraded my CSR to a Freedom Unlimited one week ago. Today I checked and in my Chase.com account, it was showing up as the new Freedom Unlimited, so I figured I'd go ahead and try applying for the CSP. It worked! I was approved instantly. Hooray for 100k points!
Based on your success, I tried today (about a week after downgrading) and got a "We need to take a closer look at your application, we'll let you know" message. I think I've got these from other issuers in the past, usually before getting denied. Too bad.
Can someone remind me how much total credit chase will extend? 50% of stated income?
I have $92k in credit from Chase on a $210k stated income (and $209k total credit across all issuers). Thinking I will be getting denied for the CSP, but we will see. I wonder if someone at a branch can help me, maybe by closing some Chase cards.
This happens to me all the time and always works out fine. It looks like a new 20-30k credit line would put you over 50%. What happened last time is they reduced the credit line on one of my cards and then approved me.
Here’s a summary to check the status (this information is available severa places but this is the first google result it may be a shitty website double check the phone number before entering personal info): https://dealspoints.com/chase-application-status/
Personally I would check the automated phone status method and hope it works out. If you do get denied, call reconsideration and ask them to move your credit line around. But if you have a good credit profile chances are they will make it work for you and you’ll get the “2 weeks” message within a couple days
Awesome info. Thanks!
Just logged in to Chase and see a new Sapphire Preferred has been added. Looks like they did move some credit around, pulling about $20k total from two Freedom Unlimiteds.
Okay now to spend some money...
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Glad to hear it worked out.
I'm now reading that I may have to wait until I've had the CSP a year to upgrade to the CSR. Might be a slight bummer but I'll survive
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Starting to get nervous about the end date 9/30. Plenty of rumors say they will extend again, possibly with new categories. But I'm currently maxing out our 6 Freedom cards in the grocery category = $675 worth of points. My statements close mid-month so if I don't finish soon, I will receive the points in October. Of course I'd prefer to make the purchases immediately after the statement closes so as to float the payment an extra month. So I have to decide whether to risk getting points after the program ends or risk accelerating my payments by a month.
Thinking of downgrading the CSR and getting the CSP bonus. My wife has the CSP so she could upgrade to the CSR when it's time to burn points/travel (we haven't traveled since the pandemic)
Do you get a bonus with a downgrade? I thought you had to open a new account, not just do a product change -- if a product change will give a bonus, I should do that too.
I've been thinking about canceling my Reserve so I can get a new sign up bonus later (I've had it for 4-5 years now?).
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Starting to get nervous about the end date 9/30. Plenty of rumors say they will extend again, possibly with new categories. But I'm currently maxing out our 6 Freedom cards in the grocery category = $675 worth of points. My statements close mid-month so if I don't finish soon, I will receive the points in October. Of course I'd prefer to make the purchases immediately after the statement closes so as to float the payment an extra month. So I have to decide whether to risk getting points after the program ends or risk accelerating my payments by a month.
Thinking of downgrading the CSR and getting the CSP bonus. My wife has the CSP so she could upgrade to the CSR when it's time to burn points/travel (we haven't traveled since the pandemic)
Do you get a bonus with a downgrade? I thought you had to open a new account, not just do a product change -- if a product change will give a bonus, I should do that too.
I've been thinking about canceling my Reserve so I can get a new sign up bonus later (I've had it for 4-5 years now?).
No, I’m going to PC the CSR to a freedom flex and then apply for new CSP to get that bonus
Pretty sure a bonus on upgrade/downgrade is rare or nonexistent. In general unless you have too much open credit with chase there’s no reason to outright cancel a card. In this case, though, if you don’t already have a freedom flex and you downgrade to one then you might miss out on the $200 flex bonus (we got a flex a while back partially in anticipation of this issue)
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I haven't seen any updates about this being extended. Already cashed out north of 500K points using the CSR over the last year. As soon as my CIP statement closes I'll have another 250K to cash out. Getting a new roof put on so this really helps.
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Sent a secure message to PC the CSR and they said it’s eligible but I have to call in to “answer questions”. I wonder if this is an attempt at retention or if they are going to look in depth at my account
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Sent a secure message to PC the CSR and they said it’s eligible but I have to call in to “answer questions”. I wonder if this is an attempt at retention or if they are going to look in depth at my account
I think it is just to be a pain. I recall I had to do this for CSP or CSR in the past. Shouldn't take long.
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Sent a secure message to PC the CSR and they said it’s eligible but I have to call in to “answer questions”. I wonder if this is an attempt at retention or if they are going to look in depth at my account
I think it is just to be a pain. I recall I had to do this for CSP or CSR in the past. Shouldn't take long.
Yeah, finally called in today and everything has already been updated online. Unfortunately I might not be able to PC the other CSP to CSR soon because I didn't know I had to hold it for a year first. Possibly I can PC a different freedom back to CSR but I'm not in that much of a hurry to get the CSR again (without a bonus) since I liquidated all points. At this point we're up to 7 freedom cards, though, so that Q4 paypal bonus is gonna generate 100k points, plus the 100k signup bonus on the new CSP, plus hopefully the referral bonus (20k?). So maybe I do need it pretty soon.
Back to the topic at hand, though, there's more rumor that PYB is being extended until the end of the year.
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-extends-pay-yourself-back-until-december-31-2021/
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Question for any of you that are more experienced with UR rewards points than me (we have CSP) -
I have the chase sapphire preferred (so does my wife) - our points have posted and I had planned on using them for travel. But, Is there any benefit to using them for travel VS using the pay yourself back feature?
If we book through the chase UR travel portal I know you get 25% points back. But if we don't book through that portal (we have a destination wedding in the spring that we may have to book with the whole family through some other means [travel agent or directly through the resort]), do we get the same value if we just pay ourselves back for purchases now?
You won't want to use PYB if you are serious about using the points for travel, especially premium reward space. If you don't care then that's another story but I always like to keep 1 - 2 million points in my account.
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If you want premium travel, I agree - using your UR points to transfer to other reward programs is much more lucrative.
For us, we have a family of 4 and my priority is to stretch my limited points to as many trips as possible. Using our points for premium travel would give me fewer trips.
E.g. previous example of using Hyatt points.
I have always transfer Chase pts to Hyatt or Southwest. Best value for your points.
Most Hyatt Place are 8,000 pts and that translate to $100 in PYB. I usually only use points for Hyatt when I can get 1.5x or 2x the value.
We went to Paris and stayed at the Hyatt Regency Paris Étoile which cost 15k/night. At that time the rooms were over $500/night making it over 3x the value.
Southwest is the same .A lot of their one way flights are under 10k. Especially is you have companion pass for SW, the points become even sweeter.
I'd have 3 options:
- spend 8000 pts for Hyatt Place
- spend 15000 pts for Hyatt Regency Paris Etoile
- get $100 statement credit in PYB and stay at a Comfort Inn for $40.
While I'd enjoy a stay at the Hyatt regency and that is the most return on point value, with PYB, I'd get over 4 nights stay at a heavily discounted Comfort Inn compared to one night at the fancy Hyatt Regency.
I should note that I do splurge with my points every once in a while :) But overall, we are fine with staying at a Comfort Inn. Especially since it has free breakfast lol.
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My CSP 100k bonus posted, I started using the card as my "daily driver", I went through and applied all the transactions that qualified to PYB, great feature and thanks for the heads up.
As far as travel, I noticed the cc companies really push the travel aspect of card use and bonuses. Makes sense from their perspective.
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https://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-extends-pay-yourself-back-until-december-31-2021/
Pay yourself back has been extended!
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If you want premium travel, I agree - using your UR points to transfer to other reward programs is much more lucrative.
For us, we have a family of 4 and my priority is to stretch my limited points to as many trips as possible. Using our points for premium travel would give me fewer trips.
E.g. previous example of using Hyatt points.
I have always transfer Chase pts to Hyatt or Southwest. Best value for your points.
Most Hyatt Place are 8,000 pts and that translate to $100 in PYB. I usually only use points for Hyatt when I can get 1.5x or 2x the value.
We went to Paris and stayed at the Hyatt Regency Paris Étoile which cost 15k/night. At that time the rooms were over $500/night making it over 3x the value.
Southwest is the same .A lot of their one way flights are under 10k. Especially is you have companion pass for SW, the points become even sweeter.
I'd have 3 options:
- spend 8000 pts for Hyatt Place
- spend 15000 pts for Hyatt Regency Paris Etoile
- get $100 statement credit in PYB and stay at a Comfort Inn for $40.
While I'd enjoy a stay at the Hyatt regency and that is the most return on point value, with PYB, I'd get over 4 nights stay at a heavily discounted Comfort Inn compared to one night at the fancy Hyatt Regency.
I should note that I do splurge with my points every once in a while :) But overall, we are fine with staying at a Comfort Inn. Especially since it has free breakfast lol.
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Can you please point out to some Comfort Inn for $40 ?? That should include taxes.
I must admit that I have never stayed in a Comfort Inn but a quick check for Comfort Inn runs around $60-$100 not including taxes.
I don't doubt you can find some Comfort Inn for $40 on deals from time to time but $40 is no where near the norm. You can't even find Motel 6 for $40 these days.
When I post Hyatt for 8000 pts, that's the norm. I can pretty much travel to most cities and find Hyatt Place for 8000 pts. There are also plenty of Hyatt for 5000 pts. In fact outside the US, there are very nice Hyatt for 5000 pts.
My last inquiry is where can I find a Comfort Inn in any where near Paris ??
You'll be lucky to find a night stay in Paris for $200.
Hyatt and Comfort Inn aren't in the same category.
If you're looking just for a place to sleep, then that's fine but that's like saying a why buy a Lexus when a Kia when get me from point A to point B just fine.
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https://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-extends-pay-yourself-back-until-december-31-2021/
Pay yourself back has been extended!
Extended but reduced. For CSP it's now 10% bonus vs. the old 25%.
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https://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-extends-pay-yourself-back-until-december-31-2021/
Pay yourself back has been extended!
Extended but reduced. For CSP it's now 10% bonus vs. the old 25%.
Source? I’m seeing that is freedoms with 10% bonus
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Staying true to the thread title, prior to the pandemic we had a little over $6000 worth of chase points saved up. We were planning for some epic travel but ended up burning all of it via the pay-yourself-back-feature throughout the past 18 months. Saved a ton on various spending categories (granted it was all free point via sign up bonuses). They mis-classified clothing stores, home supply stores etc. It was working on far more than 'dining'.
Just transferred a final $1000 of points from my freedom card to my wifes CSR card to applied it all to previous purchases. Will now be cancelling the CSR. Great program, would love to partake again - thank you chase.
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Staying true to the thread title, prior to the pandemic we had a little over $6000 worth of chase points saved up. We were planning for some epic travel but ended up burning all of it via the pay-yourself-back-feature throughout the past 18 months. Saved a ton on various spending categories (granted it was all free point via sign up bonuses). They mis-classified clothing stores, home supply stores etc. It was working on far more than 'dining'.
Just transferred a final $1000 of points from my freedom card to my wifes CSR card to applied it all to previous purchases. Will now be cancelling the CSR. Great program, would love to partake again - thank you chase.
That was intentional. https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/how-to-use-chase-pay-yourself-back
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Wow, just finished redeeming about $1k worth of PYB points on my CSR, and now it's been extended!? With the wife in grad school until mid 2023 and our tendency to pay cash when we find good travel deals anyway, it's a no-brainer to keep using it to utilize our stache of UR points.
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Staying true to the thread title, prior to the pandemic we had a little over $6000 worth of chase points saved up. We were planning for some epic travel but ended up burning all of it via the pay-yourself-back-feature throughout the past 18 months. Saved a ton on various spending categories (granted it was all free point via sign up bonuses). They mis-classified clothing stores, home supply stores etc. It was working on far more than 'dining'.
Just transferred a final $1000 of points from my freedom card to my wifes CSR card to applied it all to previous purchases. Will now be cancelling the CSR. Great program, would love to partake again - thank you chase.
That was intentional. https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/how-to-use-chase-pay-yourself-back
Oh interesting. Maybe it started as only dining? Either way - was a great use of the points!
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Downgraded the CSR on Tuesday. Immediately the new card displayed in the dashboard. Today I looked under "open an account" and saw the CSP offered. Applied with referral link and approved. So it only took 2 business days for me, but it seems like the "open an account" offerings are an accurate indication that you're eligible for another sapphire card again.
I was getting antsy about missing the 100k promo, even though there's really no indication it's going away soon
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Looks like they changed up the categories:
Airbnb and Away (through awaytravel.com), dining at restaurants (including takeout and eligible delivery services) and select charities
Pretty useless to me, so I'll probably wait for better categories or travel plans before jumping back to the CSR
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Looks like they changed up the categories:
Airbnb and Away (through awaytravel.com), dining at restaurants (including takeout and eligible delivery services) and select charities
Pretty useless to me, so I'll probably wait for better categories or travel plans before jumping back to the CSR
You can always book an Airbnb a few months out in advance then use the PYB feature and cancel the booking.....thus refunding the Airbnb back to the account and you'd have a statement credit to spend as you'd like or request a check to yourself as a 100% cash out......
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Looks like they changed up the categories:
Airbnb and Away (through awaytravel.com), dining at restaurants (including takeout and eligible delivery services) and select charities
Pretty useless to me, so I'll probably wait for better categories or travel plans before jumping back to the CSR
You can always book an Airbnb a few months out in advance then use the PYB feature and cancel the booking.....thus refunding the Airbnb back to the account and you'd have a statement credit to spend as you'd like or request a check to yourself as a 100% cash out......
We got an evil genius here, folks!
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Looks like the CSP 100k offer is ending soon. https://www.dansdeals.com/credit-cards/will-chase-sapphire-preferreds-incredible-100000-point-ends-just-4-days/
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Yes, the online sign up is back to 60,000 now.
I still have a referral link I created before for 100,000. If you still want the 100k, hit me up.
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dining at restaurants (including takeout and eligible delivery services)
This category doesn't exist for my Sapphire account, just Airbnb, AwayAll and Select charities. Bummer, glad I redeemed 50k points last month!
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Lol, they let me "pay myself back" for an Airbnb trip I booked earlier in the summer and later cancelled. The booking and original refund both occurred prior to the points redemption, and prior to Airbnb being pay-yourself-back-able at all.
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Looks like they changed up the categories:
Airbnb and Away (through awaytravel.com), dining at restaurants (including takeout and eligible delivery services) and select charities
Pretty useless to me, so I'll probably wait for better categories or travel plans before jumping back to the CSR
You can always book an Airbnb a few months out in advance then use the PYB feature and cancel the booking.....thus refunding the Airbnb back to the account and you'd have a statement credit to spend as you'd like or request a check to yourself as a 100% cash out......
I stupidly missed the window to redeem my CSP Pay Yourself Back points for Home Depot purchases, of which I had MANY. Frustrating! So are you saying that I could book an Airbnb for let's say $1250, use my 100,000 points to pay for it (getting the 25% bump), cancel, then I would have a $1250 statement credit? Is this a strategy known to work? I would have assumed they would either refund it as points or at least claw back the $250 bump.
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You have to be careful to book a fully refundable Airbnb… each place has different rules and some are extremely inflexible. But yeah, try it. As long as it’s refundable the most you can lose is a little time trying it
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I have done this before with Expedia (book and cancel). Be super careful reading the cancellation policy. You don't want to find any part of it not refundable.
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If you want premium travel, I agree - using your UR points to transfer to other reward programs is much more lucrative.
For us, we have a family of 4 and my priority is to stretch my limited points to as many trips as possible. Using our points for premium travel would give me fewer trips.
E.g. previous example of using Hyatt points.
I have always transfer Chase pts to Hyatt or Southwest. Best value for your points.
Most Hyatt Place are 8,000 pts and that translate to $100 in PYB. I usually only use points for Hyatt when I can get 1.5x or 2x the value.
We went to Paris and stayed at the Hyatt Regency Paris Étoile which cost 15k/night. At that time the rooms were over $500/night making it over 3x the value.
Southwest is the same .A lot of their one way flights are under 10k. Especially is you have companion pass for SW, the points become even sweeter.
I'd have 3 options:
- spend 8000 pts for Hyatt Place
- spend 15000 pts for Hyatt Regency Paris Etoile
- get $100 statement credit in PYB and stay at a Comfort Inn for $40.
While I'd enjoy a stay at the Hyatt regency and that is the most return on point value, with PYB, I'd get over 4 nights stay at a heavily discounted Comfort Inn compared to one night at the fancy Hyatt Regency.
I should note that I do splurge with my points every once in a while :) But overall, we are fine with staying at a Comfort Inn. Especially since it has free breakfast lol.
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Can you please point out to some Comfort Inn for $40 ?? That should include taxes.
I must admit that I have never stayed in a Comfort Inn but a quick check for Comfort Inn runs around $60-$100 not including taxes.
I don't doubt you can find some Comfort Inn for $40 on deals from time to time but $40 is no where near the norm. You can't even find Motel 6 for $40 these days.
When I post Hyatt for 8000 pts, that's the norm. I can pretty much travel to most cities and find Hyatt Place for 8000 pts. There are also plenty of Hyatt for 5000 pts. In fact outside the US, there are very nice Hyatt for 5000 pts.
My last inquiry is where can I find a Comfort Inn in any where near Paris ??
You'll be lucky to find a night stay in Paris for $200.
Hyatt and Comfort Inn aren't in the same category.
If you're looking just for a place to sleep, then that's fine but that's like saying a why buy a Lexus when a Kia when get me from point A to point B just fine.
We're here on MMM after all - a Kia suits me just fine. I did point out your strategy is perfect for premium travel. Just saying budget travel works fine for me and suggesting a different way of valuing the points.
I do occasionally splurge if it is a resort with tons of included amenities (like the Hyatt Regency Grand Cypress which doesn't charge the resort fee for award stays - so free kayaks, canoes, aquabikes, surrey bikes, rock climbing, pitch n putt golf, driving range, etc etc) or a super convenient location where I want to be.
For Comfort Inn, every year the US Travel Association runs the Daily Getaways promo (actually happening right now). For $285 you can scoop up 55,000 Choice points ($0.0052/pt). Comfort/Quality Inns start at 8000 points or $41.45 per night.
That said, if I had been in Paris and wanted to stay in the location of your Hyatt Regency and couldn't find anything under $200/night, I would have used the 15,000 points and enjoyed the luxury. That said, the $500/night valuation is meaningless to me as I wouldn't pay over maybe $150 a night unless I had a really, really good reason. I value the points at the max I would pay in cash - not the actual hotel cost.
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You can always book an Airbnb a few months out in advance then use the PYB feature and cancel the booking.....thus refunding the Airbnb back to the account and you'd have a statement credit to spend as you'd like or request a check to yourself as a 100% cash out......
Update: I’m trying this
After a couple CSP bonuses and Freedom categories, we need to cash out like 300k in points. When my CSP annual fee hit I asked them to product change to reserve to get the 1.5x on the points. Booked some kind of rip-off motel for $1k/night about 12 months from now… fully refundable.
Hopefully it goes smoothly. Not sure if I’m going to ask them to cash out my negative balance or try to transfer it to another account
edit: sorry duke, this was your brilliant idea and I quoted myself!
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Cashing out a negative balance is easy - just call and ask them to mail u a check.
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You have to be careful to book a fully refundable Airbnb… each place has different rules and some are extremely inflexible. But yeah, try it. As long as it’s refundable the most you can lose is a little time trying it
Update: I’m trying this
After a couple CSP bonuses and Freedom categories, we need to cash out like 300k in points. When my CSP annual fee hit I asked them to product change to reserve to get the 1.5x on the points. Booked some kind of rip-off motel for $1k/night about 12 months from now… fully refundable.
Hopefully it goes smoothly. Not sure if I’m going to ask them to cash out my negative balance or try to transfer it to another acount
So you're spending points for the motel but getting refunded in real money (x1.5)? That's great, if so. I got the x1.5 on a few pay yourself back categories, but I was only using it for the SUB so I quit using the card.
And does the reserve have a yearly fee? I'm going to need to downgrade soon, too.
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You have to be careful to book a fully refundable Airbnb… each place has different rules and some are extremely inflexible. But yeah, try it. As long as it’s refundable the most you can lose is a little time trying it
Update: I’m trying this
After a couple CSP bonuses and Freedom categories, we need to cash out like 300k in points. When my CSP annual fee hit I asked them to product change to reserve to get the 1.5x on the points. Booked some kind of rip-off motel for $1k/night about 12 months from now… fully refundable.
Hopefully it goes smoothly. Not sure if I’m going to ask them to cash out my negative balance or try to transfer it to another acount
Can you explain this hack? Or should I read the entire thread?
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Can you explain this hack? Or should I read the entire thread?
It's a long thread so I'll summarize:
Someone else discussed above but basically you book a fully refundable AirBnb with your Reserve (CSR), say for example $1500. You pay in full at booking. You don't "pay with points" through the Chase portal, but book directly at AirBNB.
Through 6/30, you get a 1.5x multiplier on points used for AirBnb using a feature called "pay yourself back". It was previously other categories, and pundits think chase will continue extend the program again, possibly with different categories. But for now, we are only concerned with AirBNB
Once the charge posts, you visit the "pay yourself back" tab in the chase rewards website and select that charge. In this example, you can spend 100k points to pay off the $1500 airbnb charge. Within a couple days, chase posts a $1500 credit to your account. Then you cancel the AirBNB and a few days or maybe a week later AirBNB refunds the original $1500. So now you have a -$1500 balance. You can ask chase to cash it out or use it to offset other spending.
The point is that you aren't locked into booking through the chase travel portal to realize the 1.5x CSR bonus. First, I prefer booking directly with airlines and hotels... the chase travel portal is backed by expedia and they kinda suck although I've never had an unresolvable issue (in my case I have a lap infant and I can't book that online I have to call). Second, maybe you don't have any travel planned and want to liquidate your points. Third, even if you wanted to use your points towards travel, if you spend points for a booking through the chase travel portal you don't earn any more points. If you do it this way, you can still book the same trip and get the 3x points on that booking (worth 4.5%)
And bonus I also got the $300 travel credit since I just upgraded.
So you're spending points for the motel but getting refunded in real money (x1.5)? That's great, if so. I got the x1.5 on a few pay yourself back categories, but I was only using it for the SUB so I quit using the card.
And does the reserve have a yearly fee? I'm going to need to downgrade soon, too.
Not sure if we are on the same page but see above. Essentially if you start with a $0 account balance and 100k points, you can end up with a -$1500 account balance and 0 points.
The reserve has a whopping fee of $550. This is offset by the $300 travel credit, and other less tangible benefits like the priority pass, global entry every four years, and 3x earnings on travel and dining, etc. The 3x earnings are not really that great now that a few of the no fee cards earn 5x on travel booked through the chase portal and 3x on dining. It's widely speculated that the CSR is due for a revamp of earnings multipliers/categories but it hasn't come to fruition.
Lets call it a net $250 annual fee vs. something free like the freedom cards. So what makes it worth it? Well lets say you have a lot of points. The 1.5x point multiplier pays for the net $250 if you are cashing out 50k in points that year (your 50k points are worth 75k, so 25k more). Similar math can be applied to the CSP with it's $95 annual fee (for many people the CSP is a better deal).
Personally I'm heavily in the Chase ecosystem so I earn a lot of chase points... easily more than 50k even in years where I don't get sign up bonuses. But at this point, I was looking at a 300k point balance and I'm just not comfortable leaving that on the books. Chase (and other banks) sometimes shut down accounts capriciously. If that happened to me, I'd probably still get 1x value out of the points, but why leave an extra $1500 on the table?
I also had a global entry renewal coming up so I could use that credit this year.*
Another bonus is that the CSR annual fee does not post right away. Some reports are like 3 months later but I'll report back. Not only does that give you "free" use of the benefits, but theoretically you could double dip the travel credit when you cancel the card.
I may have to keep this card more than one year though because I don't really want to burn my relationship with chase. From what I've read, they don't really care about any of the above "hacks" as long as the spend is real.
*There's an Amex Platinum hack for global entry that I've somewhat abused already (free gold authorized users still get a global entry credit.. I've got like 6 at this point but I don't mind burning my amex account)
and with that said, bombs away on step 2 (pay yourself back)
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Cashing out a negative balance is easy - just call and ask them to mail u a check.
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Thanks, I'm mostly worried about getting "eyes on" my account by a real human when I try to cash out like $5k (including the travel credit) for a card that I haven't even paid the upgraded annual fee yet (if you wanted to be a real psychopath you could do what I'm doing and then cancel the card before the AF posts.. but even I'm not that sick).
But I don't really have enough spend on my other personal cards this quarter (amazon is not a great option for the freedom categories because it requires mostly being a consumer sucka to max out). I'd try to transfer the credit to a business account but I suspect that's some kind of red flag in their system
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Thank you for the summary. I just got done with the venture X with a $395 fee - but $300 travel credit on a refundable pay up front Capone travel portal reservation. I got the credit, cancelled the reservation for a refund and they didn't claw back the $300 credit.
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Can you explain this hack? Or should I read the entire thread?
It's a long thread so I'll summarize:
Someone else discussed above but basically you book a fully refundable AirBnb with your Reserve (CSR), say for example $1500. You pay in full at booking. You don't "pay with points" through the Chase portal, but book directly at AirBNB.
Through 6/30, you get a 1.5x multiplier on points used for AirBnb using a feature called "pay yourself back". It was previously other categories, and pundits think chase will continue extend the program again, possibly with different categories. But for now, we are only concerned with AirBNB
Once the charge posts, you visit the "pay yourself back" tab in the chase rewards website and select that charge. In this example, you can spend 100k points to pay off the $1500 airbnb charge. Within a couple days, chase posts a $1500 credit to your account. Then you cancel the AirBNB and a few days or maybe a week later AirBNB refunds the original $1500. So now you have a -$1500 balance. You can ask chase to cash it out or use it to offset other spending.
The point is that you aren't locked into booking through the chase travel portal to realize the 1.5x CSR bonus. First, I prefer booking directly with airlines and hotels... the chase travel portal is backed by expedia and they kinda suck although I've never had an unresolvable issue (in my case I have a lap infant and I can't book that online I have to call). Second, maybe you don't have any travel planned and want to liquidate your points. Third, even if you wanted to use your points towards travel, if you spend points for a booking through the chase travel portal you don't earn any more points. If you do it this way, you can still book the same trip and get the 3x points on that booking (worth 4.5%)
And bonus I also got the $300 travel credit since I just upgraded.
So you're spending points for the motel but getting refunded in real money (x1.5)? That's great, if so. I got the x1.5 on a few pay yourself back categories, but I was only using it for the SUB so I quit using the card.
And does the reserve have a yearly fee? I'm going to need to downgrade soon, too.
Not sure if we are on the same page but see above. Essentially if you start with a $0 account balance and 100k points, you can end up with a -$1500 account balance and 0 points.
The reserve has a whopping fee of $550. This is offset by the $300 travel credit, and other less tangible benefits like the priority pass, global entry every four years, and 3x earnings on travel and dining, etc. The 3x earnings are not really that great now that a few of the no fee cards earn 5x on travel booked through the chase portal and 3x on dining. It's widely speculated that the CSR is due for a revamp of earnings multipliers/categories but it hasn't come to fruition.
Lets call it a net $250 annual fee vs. something free like the freedom cards. So what makes it worth it? Well lets say you have a lot of points. The 1.5x point multiplier pays for the net $250 if you are cashing out 50k in points that year (your 50k points are worth 75k, so 25k more). Similar math can be applied to the CSP with it's $95 annual fee (for many people the CSP is a better deal).
Personally I'm heavily in the Chase ecosystem so I earn a lot of chase points... easily more than 50k even in years where I don't get sign up bonuses. But at this point, I was looking at a 300k point balance and I'm just not comfortable leaving that on the books. Chase (and other banks) sometimes shut down accounts capriciously. If that happened to me, I'd probably still get 1x value out of the points, but why leave an extra $1500 on the table?
I also had a global entry renewal coming up so I could use that credit this year.*
Another bonus is that the CSR annual fee does not post right away. Some reports are like 3 months later but I'll report back. Not only does that give you "free" use of the benefits, but theoretically you could double dip the travel credit when you cancel the card.
I may have to keep this card more than one year though because I don't really want to burn my relationship with chase. From what I've read, they don't really care about any of the above "hacks" as long as the spend is real.
*There's an Amex Platinum hack for global entry that I've somewhat abused already (free gold authorized users still get a global entry credit.. I've got like 6 at this point but I don't mind burning my amex account)
and with that said, bombs away on step 2 (pay yourself back)
Side note, you will end up with negative points on the Reserve card when the AirBNB trip is canceled (triple points for travel, so maybe more than expected).
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Side note, you will end up with negative points on the Reserve card when the AirBNB trip is canceled (triple points for travel, so maybe more than expected).
Good note but in my case I don’t expect that to happen since the Airbnb charge and refund should post within the same billing cycle. I can see that the $300 in points might be lost but my booking was also slightly more than the points I had so it won’t be a large negative balance and by the time the negative points show up I’ll still have net positive from other accounts
Also just to be clear chase doesn’t usually care about negative points balance, YMMV if you try to cancel an account with large negative points balance
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I am still trying to figure out how the airbnb thing would be beneficial. I have the CSR and use 1.5x pay yourself back primarily on dining these days and have no issues using it up.
I agree - it’s better than using the Chase travel agency, I also prefer booking direct. Although for anyone renting cars - I recently got a great rate through the Chase travel portal :)
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I am still trying to figure out how the airbnb thing would be beneficial. I have the CSR and use 1.5x pay yourself back primarily on dining these days and have no issues using it up.
I agree - it’s better than using the Chase travel agency, I also prefer booking direct. Although for anyone renting cars - I recently got a great rate through the Chase travel portal :)
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Depends on your spend. I barely eat out and nowhere fast enough to spend $4500
We don’t know what the categories will be after June 30. They might be better for me (grocery!) or they could end PYB entirely and I’ll be stuck with travel portal
Even when the travel portal has a good deal I’d rather get cash for my points and then Use my freedom unlimited to get 5% back (worth 7.5) on my portal spend
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I am still trying to figure out how the airbnb thing would be beneficial. I have the CSR and use 1.5x pay yourself back primarily on dining these days and have no issues using it up.
I agree - it’s better than using the Chase travel agency, I also prefer booking direct. Although for anyone renting cars - I recently got a great rate through the Chase travel portal :)
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Depends on your spend. I barely eat out and nowhere fast enough to spend $4500
We don’t know what the categories will be after June 30. They might be better for me (grocery!) or they could end PYB entirely and I’ll be stuck with travel portal
Even when the travel portal has a good deal I’d rather get cash for my points and then Use my freedom unlimited to get 5% back (worth 7.5) on my portal spend
Makes sense. I used up my bonus points back when groceries counted so only have points earned from regular spend now so dining easily uses that up. Good reminder to use up all my points by June 1 though.
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Trying to make sure I understand the Airbnb option as I want to cancel my CSP card before the next annual fee. Let’s say I have 100k points to spend. I make a refundable reservation for about $1250, then when it shows up I pay myself back, using up my 100k points. Then I cancel the Airbnb, which means I’ll have a -1k balance in Chase points (if it’s the next billing cycle), not the -100k. Correct?
Thanks!
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Trying to make sure I understand the Airbnb option as I want to cancel my CSP card before the next annual fee. Let’s say I have 100k points to spend. I make a refundable reservation for about $1250, then when it shows up I pay myself back, using up my 100k points. Then I cancel the Airbnb, which means I’ll have a -1k balance in Chase points (if it’s the next billing cycle), not the -100k. Correct?
Thanks!
Why would you cancel the card instead of just downgrading to the Freedom?
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TomTX, good point. I’m pretty new to credit card hacking. Until reading this post, I didn’t know this was possible. I prefer to only have a couple cards open at one time. But I agree I could do as you suggest, and then use the points whenever, and that’s less hassle.
Thanks!
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In my case I've already got three Chase Freedom cards, with a combined credit limit way above anything I need, so if I get rid of the CSR I see no downside to cancelling it instead of getting Chase Freedom #4. :-)
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Ok I’m all done. Pretty painless, really. Highly suggest this to anyone who wants to cash out points before July
Alternatively call JG wentworth “it’s my money and I need it now!”
In my case I've already got three Chase Freedom cards, with a combined credit limit way above anything I need, so if I get rid of the CSR I see no downside to cancelling it instead of getting Chase Freedom #4. :-)
Hey we’ve got 7 in the household, can still max them out during a good category like grocery but it’s getting more difficult
PayPal was the absolute best category when paypalkey existed (they shut it down… assume only people using it were churners)
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I'm not quite organized enough for "buy $1500 worth of gift cards per credit card, bank the points, and remember to use the gift cards in a timely manner" to be a profitable plan for me. I've tried it before. Lose one gift card or fail to use it before VTSAX goes up by another 5% and the whole scheme falls apart. More power to you if you make it work!
The PayPal category was still nice for me this year because I found several of the charities I was going to donate to anyway ran their online payments through PayPal. That was only enough to max out two cards though.
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I'm not quite organized enough for "buy $1500 worth of gift cards per credit card, bank the points, and remember to use the gift cards in a timely manner" to be a profitable plan for me. I've tried it before. Lose one gift card or fail to use it before VTSAX goes up by another 5% and the whole scheme falls apart. More power to you if you make it work!
The PayPal category was still nice for me this year because I found several of the charities I was going to donate to anyway ran their online payments through PayPal. That was only enough to max out two cards though.
I’m a quarterly tax payer and so can you! Seriously I know everyone has a different story but I “spend” my cards within a few months and Figure I can lose like 1 in 50 and still come out ahead
Over three months it’s not hard to pick up three gift cards each time I do my weekly grocery shopping.
It’s a few minutes of time to earn like $75… not everyone wants to do that but it’s just a hobby at this point
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TomTX, good point. I’m pretty new to credit card hacking. Until reading this post, I didn’t know this was possible. I prefer to only have a couple cards open at one time. But I agree I could do as you suggest, and then use the points whenever, and that’s less hassle.
Thanks!
Happy to help.
Having longer-term (older) cards is helpful for your credit as well. If there's no annual fee, I typically just let them accumulate - with an alert set up if there is spend on them.
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Any word on how Pay Yourself Back will change/not change after the end of this quarter? Hoping they keep Airbnb as an option personally.
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https://www.doctorofcredit.com/new-chase-pay-yourself-back-categories-dining-airbnb-away-luggage-through-march/
Read article...the title doesn't say it all.
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Seems like it’s still dining and Airbnb, minus AF. Websites haven’t fully updated yet so JUST WAIT LONGER
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Good times are over.
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Yep, back to stockpiling points until it's time to buy a plane ticket.
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Reserve goes from a 50% bonus to a 25% bonus -- not quite as good, but not exactly worthless either. Better to travel if you have travel, but the Reserve now just has the Preferred's old rate.
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Going to miss the 50% on dining. Was a huge discount! We ended up using quite a bit just before the 12/31/2022 deadline.
It seems that any dining after 12/28 or so did not qualify - will need to call them.
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Reserve goes from a 50% bonus to a 25% bonus -- not quite as good, but not exactly worthless either. Better to travel if you have travel, but the Reserve now just has the Preferred's old rate.
Maybe if they cut the AF to the old preferred AF
Still pencils our for me, but it’s much closer at the margins now. I’ll probably use my freedom unlimited even less now