Author Topic: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature  (Read 24283 times)

LoanShark

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Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« on: June 05, 2020, 11:48:19 AM »
Just wanted to pass along a heads up as I try to max out my credit card "arbitrage" as I'm sure many of you do.

I noticed today that Chase has recently put out a new rewards feature in it's "Ultimate Rewards" portal called "Pay Yourself Back". You can essentially use your Ultimate Rewards points plus 50% toward anything dining / food / home improvement store expenditures over the last 90 days.

The Sapphire Reserve always allows you to use your points at a 50% premium toward travel rewards, but now you can essentially do the same thing toward your dining / food expenditures. Pretty sweet if you ask me. I'll be getting an $1,800+ credit toward my next bill.

debittogether

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2020, 12:38:57 PM »
Thank you for posting about this.  I hadn't heard about it.  Before COVID we had opened a new CSP and we used it to purchase a whole bunch of home improvement supplies due to moving.  We were wondering if we'd ever get to actually redeem these points for travel!   This will be very helpful for us.

Mustache ride

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2020, 04:31:32 PM »
Very interesting. We have a ton of points that need to be used and don't plan to travel by plane much any time soon. I'm not big in the CC hacking game to understand the intricacies, but is this effectively providing the same premium as travel? I understand it's getting 50% more for both travel or dining, but do you get better value when using points instead of booking with a card?

Norsky

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2020, 11:03:04 PM »
Is this only retroactive for last 90 days or is there an upcoming deadline for new purchases that points can be credited towards?

SquashingDebt

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2020, 05:01:23 AM »
Thanks for sharing!  I had just wondered how I was going to use all my points without traveling in the near future.  (I've been thinking about closing the card since they jacked up the annual fee, since none of the new benefits are useful to me.)

TomTX

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2020, 10:50:53 AM »
Is this only retroactive for last 90 days or is there an upcoming deadline for new purchases that points can be credited towards?

I believe it's good for purchases through June 30th. I've made new purchases and used the feature.

Not sure how it would work for someone with a CSP who upgraded to the CSR and had purchases in the past 90 days. May be worthwhile.

Crease

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2020, 07:06:59 AM »
Have to give Chase major props for their changes to CSR during coronavirus. $100 statement credit towards the annual fee. Extending the $300 travel credit to gas and grocery stores. 5x points on grocery store purchases (4 more points than normal). Now this PYB feature. Glad to have it in my wallet right now even though it's a travel card.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 07:13:59 AM by Crease »

Jack0Life

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2020, 09:45:00 PM »
Have to give Chase major props for their changes to CSR during coronavirus. $100 statement credit towards the annual fee. Extending the $300 travel credit to gas and grocery stores. 5x points on grocery store purchases (4 more points than normal). Now this PYB feature. Glad to have it in my wallet right now even though it's a travel card.

Did you annual fee just renewed ? And they gave you $100 credit ?
It used to be $450 and I heard that they upped it to $550 starting this year.
Mine won't renew until Jan and I won't pay the $550. Its absolutely my favorite CC but its time to let go.

Jack0Life

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2020, 09:51:36 PM »
This feature is great but I save all my Chase points for Hyatt hotels.
Most of the time you can get 2x your point value staying at Hyatt.
For example a lot of their Hyatt Place are 8000 pts and it usually cost more than $160(with taxes) to stay which makes it 2x the points.
We were in Paris and we stayed at the Paris Etoile which cost ~$500/night which effectively makes it 3x the points value.
Yeah hotels are cheap now but I'm saving all my Chase points for traveling when it gets back to normal.

Catica

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2020, 04:57:54 AM »
This feature is great but I save all my Chase points for Hyatt hotels.
Most of the time you can get 2x your point value staying at Hyatt.
For example a lot of their Hyatt Place are 8000 pts and it usually cost more than $160(with taxes) to stay which makes it 2x the points.
We were in Paris and we stayed at the Paris Etoile which cost ~$500/night which effectively makes it 3x the points value.
Yeah hotels are cheap now but I'm saving all my Chase points for traveling when it gets back to normal.
How does this work.  Are you transferring your points into Hyatt points somehow?  Or are you using the Chase travel portal to book Hyatt hotels?


JLee

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2020, 11:16:51 AM »
holy shit, that's awesome -- I have been stockpiling points for a couple of years now...

seattlecyclone

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2020, 01:22:19 PM »
Good through 30 Sept:

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-announces-major-temporary-benefits-on-sapphire-reserve-preferred-1-5-cents-cashout-easy-travel-credit-450-renewal/

Thanks for this info. Even before the pandemic I was planning to downgrade my Sapphire Reserve before my renewal at the end of the year. I was barely getting my $450 worth out of the card benefits before. Between the increased annual fee going forward and the airport lounge benefit becoming much less useful (our family of four would need to pay $29 per visit now that our youngest has turned two and needs his own ticket), the card was looking to be an unjustified expense. Now that they're keeping the old annual fee through the end of the year and offering more non-travel ways to redeem the points, plus the $60 Doordash credit, I'll stay on another year.

Jack0Life

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2020, 01:28:31 PM »
This feature is great but I save all my Chase points for Hyatt hotels.
Most of the time you can get 2x your point value staying at Hyatt.
For example a lot of their Hyatt Place are 8000 pts and it usually cost more than $160(with taxes) to stay which makes it 2x the points.
We were in Paris and we stayed at the Paris Etoile which cost ~$500/night which effectively makes it 3x the points value.
Yeah hotels are cheap now but I'm saving all my Chase points for traveling when it gets back to normal.
How does this work.  Are you transferring your points into Hyatt points somehow?  Or are you using the Chase travel portal to book Hyatt hotels?

YES, you can freely transfer 1:1 to all Chase partners(marriot, united, hyatt, etc) but Hyatt is by far the best value.
I have never used by Chase points for anything except to transfer them to Hyatt and using them.
I have 150k which would be worth $2250 back but I know I get get more than $2250 value by using them for Hyatt.

Jack0Life

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2020, 01:32:36 PM »
Good through 30 Sept:

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-announces-major-temporary-benefits-on-sapphire-reserve-preferred-1-5-cents-cashout-easy-travel-credit-450-renewal/

Thanks for this info. Even before the pandemic I was planning to downgrade my Sapphire Reserve before my renewal at the end of the year. I was barely getting my $450 worth out of the card benefits before. Between the increased annual fee going forward and the airport lounge benefit becoming much less useful (our family of four would need to pay $29 per visit now that our youngest has turned two and needs his own ticket), the card was looking to be an unjustified expense. Now that they're keeping the old annual fee through the end of the year and offering more non-travel ways to redeem the points, plus the $60 Doordash credit, I'll stay on another year.

It should cost you only $150. You instantly get back $300 back from traveling expenses which could be a lot of things.
When ever the travel expenses reset each year, i just put $300 buying pre-tolls(which is considered travel) and I get that $300 back instantly.
If they keep the $450 I might keep it for another year.

TomTX

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2020, 01:53:18 PM »
Good through 30 Sept:

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-announces-major-temporary-benefits-on-sapphire-reserve-preferred-1-5-cents-cashout-easy-travel-credit-450-renewal/

Thanks for this info. Even before the pandemic I was planning to downgrade my Sapphire Reserve before my renewal at the end of the year. I was barely getting my $450 worth out of the card benefits before. Between the increased annual fee going forward and the airport lounge benefit becoming much less useful (our family of four would need to pay $29 per visit now that our youngest has turned two and needs his own ticket), the card was looking to be an unjustified expense. Now that they're keeping the old annual fee through the end of the year and offering more non-travel ways to redeem the points, plus the $60 Doordash credit, I'll stay on another year.

It should cost you only $150. You instantly get back $300 back from traveling expenses which could be a lot of things.
When ever the travel expenses reset each year, i just put $300 buying pre-tolls(which is considered travel) and I get that $300 back instantly.
If they keep the $450 I might keep it for another year.

Currently the $300 "travel credit" works for grocery purchases as well.

seattlecyclone

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2020, 02:51:00 PM »
Good through 30 Sept:

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-announces-major-temporary-benefits-on-sapphire-reserve-preferred-1-5-cents-cashout-easy-travel-credit-450-renewal/

Thanks for this info. Even before the pandemic I was planning to downgrade my Sapphire Reserve before my renewal at the end of the year. I was barely getting my $450 worth out of the card benefits before. Between the increased annual fee going forward and the airport lounge benefit becoming much less useful (our family of four would need to pay $29 per visit now that our youngest has turned two and needs his own ticket), the card was looking to be an unjustified expense. Now that they're keeping the old annual fee through the end of the year and offering more non-travel ways to redeem the points, plus the $60 Doordash credit, I'll stay on another year.

It should cost you only $150. You instantly get back $300 back from traveling expenses which could be a lot of things.
When ever the travel expenses reset each year, i just put $300 buying pre-tolls(which is considered travel) and I get that $300 back instantly.
If they keep the $450 I might keep it for another year.

Yes, I am of course aware of the $300 travel credit and use this every year. It is the largest part of the benefit I get from the $450 annual fee. The other parts (3x points on travel and dining, increased redemption value for points earned from Chase Freedom, airport lounge access) have been worth in the $150-$200 range when I have tallied it up at the end of recent years, which has made the $450 annual fee worthwhile. At $550? Not so much.

dragoncar

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2020, 02:13:55 AM »
Yeah, I just got $1500 in visa gift cards at the grocery store.  5x points, worth 7.5x.  Liquidated 10k points to "pay myself back".  No brainer since I'm not sure when travel will happen or even if I will renew the card.  It's probably still worth it since I've just entered the world of paying taxes and estimated federal and state taxes with gift cards (yes it pens out even with all the fees, as long as you are getting 5x points on gift cards and the CSR 1.5x multiplier).

As a side note, they didn't make it easy.  I don't have any trouble using any of my Freedom cards to spend $1500 in a single grocery transaction, but the reserve kept declining.  Called them, they said I was good to go.  Declined again.  Called again.  They put a super double secret authorization on the card but I had to do it TODAY.  Finally went through.

It's been super annoying since I'm trying to limit outings during COVID.  Luckily I had another reason to go to the grocery store each time so it was never an extra trip, but the employees were starting to get a little pissed (they have to throw those unpurchased cards away and I also felt bad at the material waste).

« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 02:16:29 AM by dragoncar »

dragoncar

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2020, 02:24:15 AM »

Yes, I am of course aware of the $300 travel credit and use this every year. It is the largest part of the benefit I get from the $450 annual fee. The other parts (3x points on travel and dining, increased redemption value for points earned from Chase Freedom, airport lounge access) have been worth in the $150-$200 range when I have tallied it up at the end of recent years, which has made the $450 annual fee worthwhile. At $550? Not so much.

Was feeling the same way.  At least it's still $450 for all renewals this year.  I have no use for a dashpass or lyft pink.  I MIGHT have had the card long enough to pay for my global entry renewal -- it's every four years from the date the benefit was last used (I hear) so I wish I hadn't waited so long before using that benefit after I got the card.

Without a ton of gift card usage, it's extremely borderline.  Only thing that pushes it over the top is I also have an Ink Cash which gives 5x points on internet, phone, and office supply.  Staples $300 gift cards at $9 fee mean each gift card is giving around 4.5% points.  Home depot and amazon gift cards 7.5% points effective.  Many gift cards you can get e-delivery but unfortunately Amazon you have to go in person.  Staples also regularly runs promotions where in-store gift cards have no fee (but the churners usually raid the stock in that case).

Yeah, you lose some consumer protections but I figure I could lose 1 in 50 cards and still come out ahead.  Hasn't happened yet.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 02:26:26 AM by dragoncar »

elaine amj

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2020, 10:40:30 AM »
I was happy with the extra offerings this year too - especially since we are not using mist of the travel perks. Looks like I will keep it another year at $450...I was thinking of cancelling at $550.

I like:

- groceries are 5x the points until June 30 (I  only spent $500 this month since Costco doesn't count so got DH to buy $1000 in grocery gift cards we will use from October onwards (no issues getting the purchase approved). Pity I didn't use my Sapphire Reserve much in May.

- Pay Yourself Back allows redemption for dining, groceries, and home improvement until Sept 30. I have about $2500 in points and this is sooo much better than my original plan to redeem with Chase travel. I much prefer to buy directly from the airlines for the most flexibility (especially now that I am flying more with Frontier for under $30 each way). So I have switched almost all my spending to the Sapphire Reserve and should be able to spend enough in these categories (just barely) to be able to redeem all my UR points.

- I was worried about getting the whole $300 travel credit this year but all set now since they included gas and groceries.

Definitely making me a lot happier with this card.

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« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 10:44:00 AM by elaine amj »

erutio

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2020, 11:37:09 AM »
Yeah, I just got $1500 in visa gift cards at the grocery store.  5x points, worth 7.5x.  Liquidated 10k points to "pay myself back".  No brainer since I'm not sure when travel will happen or even if I will renew the card.  It's probably still worth it since I've just entered the world of paying taxes and estimated federal and state taxes with gift cards (yes it pens out even with all the fees, as long as you are getting 5x points on gift cards and the CSR 1.5x multiplier).

As a side note, they didn't make it easy.  I don't have any trouble using any of my Freedom cards to spend $1500 in a single grocery transaction, but the reserve kept declining.  Called them, they said I was good to go.  Declined again.  Called again.  They put a super double secret authorization on the card but I had to do it TODAY.  Finally went through.

It's been super annoying since I'm trying to limit outings during COVID.  Luckily I had another reason to go to the grocery store each time so it was never an extra trip, but the employees were starting to get a little pissed (they have to throw those unpurchased cards away and I also felt bad at the material waste).

Grocery stores are 5x points now??

So if combined with the increased redemption, works out to 7.5% back?

dragoncar

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2020, 12:26:58 PM »


Grocery stores are 5x points now??

So if combined with the increased redemption, works out to 7.5% back?

Yes until June 30 Up to $1500

There was another $1500 in May that I missed like a sucka

In case anyone has the Amex platinum they also have extra benefits ($20 per month for phone bill, $20 per month for streaming services).  That will pay for the annual fee... except they waived it for me when I Called to cancel.  They are losing serious money on me right now so I doubt I can get another fee waiver


elaine amj

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2020, 02:21:32 PM »




Grocery stores are 5x points now??

So if combined with the increased redemption, works out to 7.5% back?

Yes until June 30 Up to $1500

There was another $1500 in May that I missed like a sucka


I hear ya - I pretty much missed the one in May too. Maybe only spent 100-200 bucks? I don't think they announced it until May 28 though and I was using a different CC for grocery shopping before that.

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jpdx

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2020, 05:02:35 PM »
I have the CSP card with the 1.25x redemption rate. I also have the Amex Cash Preferred card with 6% back for groceries. So I guess I should move all my grocery spending over to the Chase card and redeem, right? Is there any reason to stick with the Amex for groceries?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 12:08:43 AM by jpdx »

seattlecyclone

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2020, 12:15:25 AM »
I have the CSP card with the 1.25x redemption rate. I also have the Amex Cash Preferred card with 6% back for groceries. So I guess I should move all my grocery spending over to the Chase card and redeem, right? Is there any reason to stick with the Amex for groceries?

The AmEx is still going to give you a higher percentage cash back for your grocery purchases. The main reason to charge groceries to your Chase card would be if you have a bunch of Chase points that you don't expect to spend any other way anytime soon. If that's the case for you then sure, buy your groceries with your Chase card until the points are gone and then switch back to AmEx.

dragoncar

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2020, 01:48:39 AM »
I have the CSP card with the 1.25x redemption rate. I also have the Amex Cash Preferred card with 6% back for groceries. So I guess I should move all my grocery spending over to the Chase card and redeem, right? Is there any reason to stick with the Amex for groceries?

The AmEx is still going to give you a higher percentage cash back for your grocery purchases. The main reason to charge groceries to your Chase card would be if you have a bunch of Chase points that you don't expect to spend any other way anytime soon. If that's the case for you then sure, buy your groceries with your Chase card until the points are gone and then switch back to AmEx.

It's always going to be a tough call on opportunity cost.  6% is pretty high for me to give up in order to liquidate points, but I did frequently use Chase points for travel even with access to 5x travel cards.  Grocery is a good category for me because I don't have any grocery specific cards.  Another choice might be home improvement stores since there are few cards with high multipliers there.  Or just wait until October to see if they offer new categories (a gamble)

DadJokes

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2020, 07:31:27 AM »
We have the CSP, so the Pay Yourself Back feature isn't quite as lucrative. I've thought about cashing the points in since we have a lot, and aren't planning on another trip until next year. However, we also don't need cash for anything at the moment.

We have 305k UR points right now and could redeem up to about almost 100k of them for up to $1,240. Even if we aren't travelling anytime soon, that just doesn't seem like much value. It's taken 18 months to build up that many UR (while spending them here and there); I won't be able to get some of those bonuses for another 2-3 years; and Chase appears to be tightening up restrictions right now as well.

volleyballer

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2020, 07:55:44 AM »
I got the CSR during the 100k signup bonus period and used the heck out of the points, lounge access, and global entry on a big international trip with my wife. The value of the 3x points earned by my work travel spend more than covered the net $150 annual fee.

Fast forward to today, I have a new job with no air travel, a newborn baby, and over 200k points sitting around. So less opportunity on both the earning and spending side for points. Not sure whether I should hold on to the points and use in the future with my family for hotels / airfare, or just get the cash now. I would like to keep the card for the near term and see how life / work travel / family travel plays out post covid.

My personal redemption value has been around $0.015/point (edit - $0.01625/pt) when used for air travel. So taking advantage of the pay yourself back feature gets me the same value as if I used for air travel.

Thoughts?

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« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 08:05:58 AM by volleyballer »

seattlecyclone

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2020, 10:33:56 AM »
We have the CSP, so the Pay Yourself Back feature isn't quite as lucrative. I've thought about cashing the points in since we have a lot, and aren't planning on another trip until next year. However, we also don't need cash for anything at the moment.

We have 305k UR points right now and could redeem up to about almost 100k of them for up to $1,240. Even if we aren't travelling anytime soon, that just doesn't seem like much value. It's taken 18 months to build up that many UR (while spending them here and there); I won't be able to get some of those bonuses for another 2-3 years; and Chase appears to be tightening up restrictions right now as well.

The Pay Yourself Back feature gives the same value as buying travel through their online portal. That's how I've usually spent my points in the past. I realize that better deals can be found if you look through all their point transfer partners, but I've never put in the time to sort through all that.

DadJokes

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2020, 02:34:59 PM »
We have the CSP, so the Pay Yourself Back feature isn't quite as lucrative. I've thought about cashing the points in since we have a lot, and aren't planning on another trip until next year. However, we also don't need cash for anything at the moment.

We have 305k UR points right now and could redeem up to about almost 100k of them for up to $1,240. Even if we aren't travelling anytime soon, that just doesn't seem like much value. It's taken 18 months to build up that many UR (while spending them here and there); I won't be able to get some of those bonuses for another 2-3 years; and Chase appears to be tightening up restrictions right now as well.

The Pay Yourself Back feature gives the same value as buying travel through their online portal. That's how I've usually spent my points in the past. I realize that better deals can be found if you look through all their point transfer partners, but I've never put in the time to sort through all that.

Transferring the points to partners is generally the best option, particularly with someone like Hyatt.

However, I discussed this with my wife today. We generally only travel 1-2 times per year, and I think 300k points will last 3+ years, not even including points we'll get whenever Chase decides to lift restrictions (wife and I both denied for new cards back in May). So even if the offer isn't great, we might as well take it while we can.

TomTX

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2020, 06:01:35 PM »
We have the CSP, so the Pay Yourself Back feature isn't quite as lucrative. I've thought about cashing the points in since we have a lot, and aren't planning on another trip until next year. However, we also don't need cash for anything at the moment.

We have 305k UR points right now and could redeem up to about almost 100k of them for up to $1,240. Even if we aren't travelling anytime soon, that just doesn't seem like much value. It's taken 18 months to build up that many UR (while spending them here and there); I won't be able to get some of those bonuses for another 2-3 years; and Chase appears to be tightening up restrictions right now as well.

The Pay Yourself Back feature gives the same value as buying travel through their online portal. That's how I've usually spent my points in the past. I realize that better deals can be found if you look through all their point transfer partners, but I've never put in the time to sort through all that.

Transferring the points to partners is generally the best option, particularly with someone like Hyatt.

However, I discussed this with my wife today. We generally only travel 1-2 times per year, and I think 300k points will last 3+ years, not even including points we'll get whenever Chase decides to lift restrictions (wife and I both denied for new cards back in May). So even if the offer isn't great, we might as well take it while we can.

It's not Hyatt, but I have a boatload of Hilton points (like 500k) and another boatload of IHG points. Also not travelling significantly. Might as well get some cash at a higher-than-usual rate on the Chase points.

Archipelago

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2020, 07:55:02 PM »
PTF

dragoncar

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2020, 09:40:35 PM »
Yeah I’ve never been able to get on board with the transfer partners even though I realize it’s the best dollar per point value, especially business class.  I’ve even priced out certain routes with miles vs portal but it’s never come out well for me to use miles.  Not sure if it’s the routes I fly or what, but I just don’t see the value often reported. 

I almost never stay at hotels so very limited reason to transfer there.  Would be different if I was still traveling for work

seattlecyclone

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2020, 01:17:08 AM »
Yeah I’ve never been able to get on board with the transfer partners even though I realize it’s the best dollar per point value, especially business class.  I’ve even priced out certain routes with miles vs portal but it’s never come out well for me to use miles.  Not sure if it’s the routes I fly or what, but I just don’t see the value often reported.

Hyatt was recommended above. Just as a test I'm pricing out a hotel room in Portland Oregon on the night of October 1st. Hyatt's website indicates two properties in central Portland for 12,000 points and one for 15,000 points. Chase's site has several options in the same part of town for less, including a Hampton Inn with breakfast included for 7,083 points. Maybe I'm searching in the wrong time/place, but the value for point transferring is far from obvious to me. What's the trick you all use to find the superior deals?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 01:19:48 AM by seattlecyclone »

dragoncar

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2020, 02:37:43 AM »
There are various websites that find redemption deals, often seems like pricing errors or luck.  If you are flexible I think you can get good value, but I’m not going to just up and take a flight to Dubai just because I can get a business class seat for 1/4 price.

On the other hand being flexible works for regular portal bookings too.

salt cured

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2020, 03:42:12 PM »


Grocery stores are 5x points now??

So if combined with the increased redemption, works out to 7.5% back?

Yes until June 30 Up to $1500

There was another $1500 in May that I missed like a sucka


I'm upset I missed both of these! A $1500 grocery spend nets $75 worth of points. And then you can "pay yourself back" the full $1500 using $1000 worth of points. So the $1500 in gift cards costs $925? That's like 40% off. Damn.

jpdx

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2020, 08:40:36 PM »
I have the CSP card with the 1.25x redemption rate. I also have the Amex Cash Preferred card with 6% back for groceries. So I guess I should move all my grocery spending over to the Chase card and redeem, right? Is there any reason to stick with the Amex for groceries?

The AmEx is still going to give you a higher percentage cash back for your grocery purchases...

Can you explain the math behind this? I know if anyone can break this down clearly, you can. :)

seattlecyclone

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2020, 09:05:43 PM »
I have the CSP card with the 1.25x redemption rate. I also have the Amex Cash Preferred card with 6% back for groceries. So I guess I should move all my grocery spending over to the Chase card and redeem, right? Is there any reason to stick with the Amex for groceries?

The AmEx is still going to give you a higher percentage cash back for your grocery purchases...

Can you explain the math behind this? I know if anyone can break this down clearly, you can. :)

Sure.

Charge $100 of groceries to your AmEx and you get points that can be redeemed for $6 cash. You have to pay net $94. Charge $100 of groceries to your Chase Sapphire and you get points that can be redeemed for $1.50 of travel/groceries/restaurants. You have to pay net $98.50.

$98.50 is more than $94. Ordinarily we would choose to spend $94 instead of $98.50. However if you have a bunch of Chase points that would otherwise sit there earning nothing for a very long time, you might find it a good plan to spend $98.50 worth of Chase points so that you can put that $94 of cash you could have spent on groceries into a productive investment instead.

MonkeyJenga

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2020, 11:26:23 AM »
I just got the Sapphire Preferred for the sign-up bonus. I didn't know about the increased non-travel categories, so thanks! I never intended to spend the points on travel and assumed I would get the flat $600 cash-out.

TomTX

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2020, 04:27:47 PM »

$98.50 is more than $94. Ordinarily we would choose to spend $94 instead of $98.50. However if you have a bunch of Chase points that would otherwise sit there earning nothing for a very long time, you might find it a good plan to spend $98.50 worth of Chase points so that you can put that $94 of cash you could have spent on groceries into a productive investment instead.

...except it's not $98.50 worth of Chase points. It's $66 worth of Chase Points to pay off the $100 grocery bill (based on normal conversion rate of 1 point = 1 cent).

dragoncar

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2020, 06:00:47 PM »

$98.50 is more than $94. Ordinarily we would choose to spend $94 instead of $98.50. However if you have a bunch of Chase points that would otherwise sit there earning nothing for a very long time, you might find it a good plan to spend $98.50 worth of Chase points so that you can put that $94 of cash you could have spent on groceries into a productive investment instead.

...except it's not $98.50 worth of Chase points. It's $66 worth of Chase Points to pay off the $100 grocery bill (based on normal conversion rate of 1 point = 1 cent).

Right, but we are talking about opportunity costs.  The options look like:

AMEX $100 grocery spend costs $100 and generates $6 in points
CSR $100 grocery spend costs $100 (6,667 points) and generates $1.5 in points

CSR $100 flight costs $100 in points (6,667 pats) and generates 0 points
CSR $100 flight costs $100 and generates $4.5 in points
AMEX $100 flight costs $100 and generates $5 in points

You want to use your chase points on the category with the least opportunity cost for you.  For some that means grocery or home improvement (my opportunity cost for those is 7.5% using chase ink gift cards from staples).  For some it’s flights Or restaurants (my opportunity cost there is only 4.5% using the CSR)

But for me, there’s no getting around the fact that using points gives up SOME opportunity to earn points.  That’s just a cost of using points.  Its unavoidable so I don’t sweat it too much (yeah in the future they might make an entirely new category that I have 2.25% opportunity cost with the freedom unlimited)

And I’m not planning to travel any time soon.  If I buy a $500 gift card from grocery it costs me $506 in points minus $7.59 in earned points, plus $11.25 in lost opportunity to earn points on that $500 spend using my freedom unlimited.  So around $10 to liquidate $500 in points.  But that $500 can earn $50 (expected value not guaranteed) if I put it in VTSAX for a year.  Points sitting in my account until I travel again don’t earn any interest.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 06:07:14 PM by dragoncar »

seattlecyclone

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2020, 11:36:08 PM »

$98.50 is more than $94. Ordinarily we would choose to spend $94 instead of $98.50. However if you have a bunch of Chase points that would otherwise sit there earning nothing for a very long time, you might find it a good plan to spend $98.50 worth of Chase points so that you can put that $94 of cash you could have spent on groceries into a productive investment instead.

...except it's not $98.50 worth of Chase points. It's $66 worth of Chase Points to pay off the $100 grocery bill (based on normal conversion rate of 1 point = 1 cent).

This gets into a question of how we decide what points are worth. I've always valued my Chase Sapphire Reserve points at 1.5¢ apiece because that's the redemption value for travel. In my family we have historically been able to spend the points on travel about as fast as we earn them. The 1¢ cash redemption rate therefore didn't even enter my mind.

A big part of the reason why I have this card and keep using it is the 1.5x bonus on redemption for travel (and now, temporarily, groceries and restaurants). Get rid of that and the advantage of using this card pretty much evaporates. The Citi Double Cash at 2% cash back is my baseline; Chase Sapphire Reserve offers 3% on travel and restaurants if you redeem for cash instead of taking the 1.5x travel bonus, but you have to spend quite a bit more on these things than we do for that extra 1¢ in points to outweigh the annual fee. Start to value the points at 1.5¢ apiece and the math changes quite a bit in favor of the CSR card, especially when you consider that the point transfer ability makes the Chase Freedom rotating categories now worth 7.5%, and Chase Freedom Unlimited worth 2.25%.

But! You can only honestly value the points at 1.5¢ if you can consume them for that value at least as fast as you earn them. With COVID, and prior to having these new categories to redeem the points for the 1.5¢ rate, that was looking like a dubious proposition.

seattlecyclone

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2020, 11:41:55 PM »
You want to use your chase points on the category with the least opportunity cost for you.  For some that means grocery or home improvement (my opportunity cost for those is 7.5% using chase ink gift cards from staples).  For some it’s flights Or restaurants (my opportunity cost there is only 4.5% using the CSR)

Fun fact! You still earn full Chase points on purchases that you later "Pay Yourself Back" for. Opportunity cost: zero.

dragoncar

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2020, 11:43:35 PM »

$98.50 is more than $94. Ordinarily we would choose to spend $94 instead of $98.50. However if you have a bunch of Chase points that would otherwise sit there earning nothing for a very long time, you might find it a good plan to spend $98.50 worth of Chase points so that you can put that $94 of cash you could have spent on groceries into a productive investment instead.

...except it's not $98.50 worth of Chase points. It's $66 worth of Chase Points to pay off the $100 grocery bill (based on normal conversion rate of 1 point = 1 cent).

This gets into a question of how we decide what points are worth. I've always valued my Chase Sapphire Reserve points at 1.5¢ apiece because that's the redemption value for travel. In my family we have historically been able to spend the points on travel about as fast as we earn them. The 1¢ cash redemption rate therefore didn't even enter my mind.

A big part of the reason why I have this card and keep using it is the 1.5x bonus on redemption for travel (and now, temporarily, groceries and restaurants). Get rid of that and the advantage of using this card pretty much evaporates. The Citi Double Cash at 2% cash back is my baseline; Chase Sapphire Reserve offers 3% on travel and restaurants if you redeem for cash instead of taking the 1.5x travel bonus, but you have to spend quite a bit more on these things than we do for that extra 1¢ in points to outweigh the annual fee. Start to value the points at 1.5¢ apiece and the math changes quite a bit in favor of the CSR card, especially when you consider that the point transfer ability makes the Chase Freedom rotating categories now worth 7.5%, and Chase Freedom Unlimited worth 2.25%.

But! You can only honestly value the points at 1.5¢ if you can consume them for that value at least as fast as you earn them. With COVID, and prior to having these new categories to redeem the points for the 1.5¢ rate, that was looking like a dubious proposition.

I barely come out ahead with the CSR.  After the $300 travel credit (which I've used every year), and ignoring other perks which I value at almost $0 because I wouldn't otherwise use, e.g. doordash, the annual fee is $150 (going up next year).  This means I need to apply the 1.5x multiplier to 30,000 points to pay for the fee (or spend $5k in travel/restaurants, or some combination of those two).  I make this happen using several Chase Freedom cards with 5x bonus categories plus the Chase Ink for Staples gift cards, etc.  But without this card ecosystem I'd definitely cancel the card.

There was previously talk that Chase was going to stop letting people transfer points between cards, particularly across accounts within a household.  If they did that I definitely would cancel the card.

Not sure what I'll do next year when then increase the fee (or later this year for me).  I'll have to run the numbers again I guess.

dragoncar

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2020, 11:45:08 PM »
You want to use your chase points on the category with the least opportunity cost for you.  For some that means grocery or home improvement (my opportunity cost for those is 7.5% using chase ink gift cards from staples).  For some it’s flights Or restaurants (my opportunity cost there is only 4.5% using the CSR)

Fun fact! You still earn full Chase points on purchases that you later "Pay Yourself Back" for. Opportunity cost: zero.

No, if I use my CSR to buy groceries I get 1.5% points value but if I use the Chase Ink to buy a grocery store gift card I get 7.5% points value.  So by using pay myself back I am giving up 6% in points value on that purchase.  But I get to liquidate points, which I want to do, and ultimately need to do since you don't get to take your points with you when you die.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 11:46:43 PM by dragoncar »

seattlecyclone

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2020, 12:08:43 AM »
I barely come out ahead with the CSR.  After the $300 travel credit (which I've used every year), and ignoring other perks which I value at almost $0 because I wouldn't otherwise use, e.g. doordash, the annual fee is $150 (going up next year).  This means I need to apply the 1.5x multiplier to 30,000 points to pay for the fee (or spend $5k in travel/restaurants, or some combination of those two).  I make this happen using several Chase Freedom cards with 5x bonus categories plus the Chase Ink for Staples gift cards, etc.  But without this card ecosystem I'd definitely cancel the card.

Agreed. In normal times we spend some on travel, but not $5k. We earn some on Chase Freedom/Freedom Unlimited, but the 50% boost on those points also isn't enough extra to pay the CSR fee on its own. The combination of the two, plus the value of a beer or two and some snacks at the lounge when we get to the airport early, has historically been worth a bit more than $150, but not a whole lot more.

Now with our younger son over age 2, a visit to the lounge costs us $29 so that benefit is gone. The increased annual fee means we need to get $250 worth of benefits from the card...not looking likely.

Now due to COVID they rolled the fee back to $150 net for another year. There are a few restaurants in my neighborhood that will take Doordash, so that $60 benefit hasn't gone to waste either. Unless something changes I expect to cancel our card before our renewal comes around in late 2021.

You want to use your chase points on the category with the least opportunity cost for you.  For some that means grocery or home improvement (my opportunity cost for those is 7.5% using chase ink gift cards from staples).  For some it’s flights Or restaurants (my opportunity cost there is only 4.5% using the CSR)

Fun fact! You still earn full Chase points on purchases that you later "Pay Yourself Back" for. Opportunity cost: zero.

No, if I use my CSR to buy groceries I get 1.5% points value but if I use the Chase Ink to buy a grocery store gift card I get 7.5% points value.  So by using pay myself back I am giving up 6% in points value on that purchase.  But I get to liquidate points, which I want to do, and ultimately need to do since you don't get to take your points with you when you die.

I was mostly thinking of restaurants with zero opportunity cost. You get the 4.5% whether you "Pay Yourself Back" with points or not. We get takeout just often enough that it makes enough of a dent in our points that I'm shying away from redeeming them for groceries for the time being.

dragoncar

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2020, 12:51:01 AM »

I was mostly thinking of restaurants with zero opportunity cost. You get the 4.5% whether you "Pay Yourself Back" with points or not. We get takeout just often enough that it makes enough of a dent in our points that I'm shying away from redeeming them for groceries for the time being.

Fair enough, I hadn't considered restaurants.  These days we spend basically zero organically at restaurants.  We get doordash/uber once in a while to take advantage of promotions and credits but we're a bit paranoid with elderly people in the household and replate and reheat everything so it's a bit of a hassle we reserve for foods we can't cook well ourselves (mostly ethnic).  We're not going to make a dent in our points that way but it would definitely work for other people. 

I was happy when I ordered some tea online and it coded as restaurant.

In a normal year, anyone using CSR points to pay for travel is giving up 4.5% in points so that's kinda my baseline comparison for where I don't worry about unavoidable opportunity cost.  Less than that is gravy, more than that I think twice. For example, I did make a decent sized purchase at Home Depot but used gift cards instead of the CSR.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 12:53:18 AM by dragoncar »

TomTX

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2020, 11:16:51 AM »
You want to use your chase points on the category with the least opportunity cost for you.  For some that means grocery or home improvement (my opportunity cost for those is 7.5% using chase ink gift cards from staples).  For some it’s flights Or restaurants (my opportunity cost there is only 4.5% using the CSR)

Fun fact! You still earn full Chase points on purchases that you later "Pay Yourself Back" for. Opportunity cost: zero.

...even if you also get the $300 travel credit. I did all three on one transaction in grocery:

Earned 5x points (part of the promotion earlier for first 1500 in grocery spend)
$300 back from the travel credit (extended to grocery because COVID)
"pay yourself back" with points at 1.5x for the full amount.

dragoncar

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2020, 02:49:01 AM »
Reported to be extended later, although categories may change

https://milestomemories.com/chase-pay-yourself-back-extended/

BikeFanatic

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Re: Chase Sapphire Reserve - Pay Yourself Back feature
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2020, 05:08:32 AM »
Idea for a new thread, post your hacks to optimize your credit card points. I would start it but I do not follow the credit card guru , we would need someone like dragon car or Seattle cyclone to post their expert understanding of maximizing point values. I just. Open cards get bonus redeem and hope for the best. I was able to get a months worth of groceries covered by my chase Safire bonus, coincidence that I signed up for the card just pre covid.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!