Author Topic: CBC piece on FIRE  (Read 5479 times)

Zikoris

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CBC piece on FIRE
« on: June 15, 2019, 10:31:47 AM »
Me and my partner did a FIRE piece for CBC Radio recently, and it's up on the website now, airing today on the radio at 3:00 as part of an episode on retirement - here's our specific segment if anyone wants to check it out : https://www.cbc.ca/radio/nowornever/want-to-retire-by-35-these-millennials-are-on-track-to-do-it-1.5174006

BTDretire

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2019, 10:39:07 AM »
 Oh come on now! We all know that is impossible!
We know saving money for the future just can't be done.
We can't be happy without a new car and a big house and expensive vacations. /s/

Sorry, just read this from another thread,
https://eand.co/half-of-americans-are-effectively-poor-now-what-the-c944c518db6a

I must have gotten knocked off kilter. :-)

achvfi

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2019, 11:34:26 AM »
Congrats on your interview on a major media platform. You folks did great job!

fuzzy math

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2019, 12:52:49 PM »
Its nice to put a name and a face to your forum name!!! Does your boyfriend post here too? (cue my embarrassment if he is some well known name here and I just didn't figure it out)

What you both have done is awesome, though I can't help but wonder what the article comments will be since your scenario is so different from the mainstream, and even amongst more traditional FIRE people.

Zikoris

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2019, 01:10:04 PM »
Its nice to put a name and a face to your forum name!!! Does your boyfriend post here too? (cue my embarrassment if he is some well known name here and I just didn't figure it out)

What you both have done is awesome, though I can't help but wonder what the article comments will be since your scenario is so different from the mainstream, and even amongst more traditional FIRE people.

He has an account but doesn't post much - though he lurks a lot.

Mighty Eyebrows

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2019, 04:41:17 PM »
Me and my partner did a FIRE piece for CBC Radio recently, and it's up on the website now
Great work! The interview comes across really well - I like how you have been able to do it on a very normal wage, in Vancouver of all places.

You disprove so many stereotypes, it is awesome.


LifePhaseTwo

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2019, 07:15:52 AM »
Well done, you two!

Caroline PF

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2019, 09:04:12 PM »
Awesome job! Your travels look like a lot of fun.

damyst

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2019, 12:45:02 AM »
Very nice :-)
The comment thread is fun too, in a masochistic sort of way. A good showing by the IRP, many commenters who flunked reading comprehension, others who can't tell a branch bank from a piggy bank, and a handful of folks with their heads screwed on straight.

I do hope you're taking reasonable precautions to protect your accounts against identity theft and/or hacking. Most people in your position wouldn't be comfortable going public about the size of their investment portfolio. Some advice I've received in the past in this regard includes:
1. Monitor your accounts frequently so that you can intercept and reverse unauthorized transfers.
2. Call your broker and ask them to place additional security requirements when anyone attempts to make changes to your accounts.
3. All the usual online hygiene measures: don't log in on public computers, don't log in on your (non-existent) smartphones, don't reuse passwords between sites, set up multi-factor authentication, etc.

soccerluvof4

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2019, 03:18:38 AM »
Good luck to you both its a good piece. Love the comments section as well. People are so quick to criticize what they just dont understand!

BussoV6

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2019, 07:46:06 AM »
Nice one!!  You guys did a great job with this. Thumbs up.

Zikoris

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2019, 02:35:19 PM »
Man, the comments were fairly good when it was just posted on CBC Radio, then they posted it to the general CBC page and it turned into a dumpster fire, lol. Though it's actually surprising how many people actually have some beginner-level FIRE understanding - I feel like it used to be that nobody knew how it worked, and it looks like some people now sort of do. So I think all the FIRE piecesmight actually be working a bit as far as education goes.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2019, 03:11:02 PM »
Congrats on what you’ve accomplished and congrats on getting the media coverage. I read through the comments and have some observations (take with a grain of salt):
1. One commenter suggests that one of the commentators is actually you Zikoris, using a pseudonym, and it definitely appears that way. I think that’s an odd choice if true. By using that character you try to defend yourself but you’re limited in what you can actually say. It looks bizarre and undercuts the arguments (rightly or wrongly) that the article is clickbait to drive people to your website so you can make money from that. It also doesn’t allow you to properly address issues raised

2. I know we have a tendency to think all the asshole commentators are in fact assholes, but let’s pause for a moment. Someone retiring in the 30s is not common, most people have no knowledge and familiarity with the concept. Of course they’re ignorant, of course their non-believers, how could they not be? Combine that with wide-spread financial illiteracy and we’re dealing with people who have understandable skepticism that needs to be confronted with education. I think Zikoris, you’ve missed opportunities to educate people in the comments, opting instead to want praise for your achievements and for people to be nice. Sure, that would be ideal. But if your goal at all is for people to look to your examples to learn new ways of living, then teach and don’t worry about satisfying the ego driven need for praise. Here are the things it seems people could use help understanding:
—How does a couple on those incomes go from $400k to $700k in 3 years?
—how does $700k sustain them for life?
—how does the blog play into the notion of retirement and how does it contribute to their income?
—how do they have a social life?

Please know, I don’t have any of those questions. I get it, as would most here, but we’re not the target of that article. I think if you’re going to hold yourself in the space of being FI influencers, or whatever, then follow through and continually seek to be transparent, educate people and help people get from out of their ignorance. That’s what MMM does and that’s why I have learned so much and I’m here 3 years later.

Just my 2 cents ;-)

totoro

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2019, 04:45:01 PM »
Heard the interview and thought you did a great job. 

Also, congrats on being so close and following your projections!

What is not as easily understandable as your current budget is how to you get from 400k to 700k in two-three years - I think people who commented didn't understand how investment returns work when reinvested.  The other points of confusion seem to be the effect of inflation on expenses and your planned withdrawal rate, and how buying land and building a cottage might impact your numbers. 

I know you have this all worked out, just the interview and article didn't explain the math.   

SwordGuy

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2019, 08:13:17 PM »
Typical response in a nutshell, not just to this article but all like it:

"I don't know how to do this so it must be impossible."

Instead of a more intelligent response of:

"I don't know how to do this but damn, it sure would be nice to know how.   I'll get more details and find out how!"


Zikoris

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2019, 01:56:40 AM »
Congrats on what you’ve accomplished and congrats on getting the media coverage. I read through the comments and have some observations (take with a grain of salt):
1. One commenter suggests that one of the commentators is actually you Zikoris, using a pseudonym, and it definitely appears that way. I think that’s an odd choice if true. By using that character you try to defend yourself but you’re limited in what you can actually say. It looks bizarre and undercuts the arguments (rightly or wrongly) that the article is clickbait to drive people to your website so you can make money from that. It also doesn’t allow you to properly address issues raised

2. I know we have a tendency to think all the asshole commentators are in fact assholes, but let’s pause for a moment. Someone retiring in the 30s is not common, most people have no knowledge and familiarity with the concept. Of course they’re ignorant, of course their non-believers, how could they not be? Combine that with wide-spread financial illiteracy and we’re dealing with people who have understandable skepticism that needs to be confronted with education. I think Zikoris, you’ve missed opportunities to educate people in the comments, opting instead to want praise for your achievements and for people to be nice. Sure, that would be ideal. But if your goal at all is for people to look to your examples to learn new ways of living, then teach and don’t worry about satisfying the ego driven need for praise. Here are the things it seems people could use help understanding:
—How does a couple on those incomes go from $400k to $700k in 3 years?
—how does $700k sustain them for life?
—how does the blog play into the notion of retirement and how does it contribute to their income?
—how do they have a social life?

Please know, I don’t have any of those questions. I get it, as would most here, but we’re not the target of that article. I think if you’re going to hold yourself in the space of being FI influencers, or whatever, then follow through and continually seek to be transparent, educate people and help people get from out of their ignorance. That’s what MMM does and that’s why I have learned so much and I’m here 3 years later.

Just my 2 cents ;-)

Just to clarify, I posted one comment only on the Facebook post, under my real name, letting people know they can ask questions if they like - I have been in Japan since the day it aired, with limited internet access, a 16 hour time zone difference, and really just can't do more than that given the circumstances. Normally I would respond to people, but it's just not going to work this time.

Zikoris

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2019, 04:25:49 AM »
Well, this is interesting - it looks like I actually CAN'T comment on the CBC site at all, because they location-block Japan for some reason! Too bad, I had a bit of downtime tonight and was going to post some replies :(

Metalcat

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2019, 06:37:20 AM »
Wow...the comments are...um...weird.

Like, why are so many commenters so invested? They're just talking back and forth at each other in this bizarre dialogue that vaguely floats about between criticizing people they know little about and making sweeping generalizations as if the article is trying to impose this lifestyle on people.

They guy who got angry about vegetarianism being imposed on millenials?? Where did that come from??? Did anyone say anything about "having" to be vegetarian? It was a reasonable response to the claim that meat is expensive.

No one said anything about anyone having to do anything, nowhere in the entire article was there any statement to that effect.

Yeesh.

Besides, the endless comments about the grocery budget being "unrealistic" are giving me a solid laugh though. How that would result in a boring and awful diet. Lol.

Our groceries are even lower than that, and DH and I are well known for our fantastic meals, and regularly have friends and family inviting themselves over for food.

Then there are the comments about how dull the overall lifestyle would be, when it's written clearly that a large part of the budget is extensive international travel.
Fuck, I'M envious!!
Japan?? Seriously??? Ugh...I hate you guys right now.

Y'know what's boring?
The lives of most people I know who live in the suburbs, work very long hours, have very long commutes in very heavy traffic, and just sometimes go out to big box chain restaurants for overly salty, overly fatty, boring, reheated, shitty food because they live in a cultural wasteland.

A suburban-dwelling colleague recently spent a Saturday with me so that she could learn a specialized technique. She described it as "the most exciting day of her entire life". I looked at her confused and said "this is a work day for me".

Granted, it was quite the day and several serious laws were broken, and she got to try a proper paella for the first time, so...I mean...it was eventful, that's for sure.

Spending doesn't make life less boring, it just makes it more expensive. Living life is what's exciting.

Rosy

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2019, 07:53:45 AM »
Oh, those comments ROFL

My fav:
Quote
The average millennial has less than 8000 dollars in savings, a massive debt from school, no car no spouse no kids .... highest suicide rates ever for the age group and on meds..retire LOL

If you are in Japan presently then it is unfortunate timing for this airing since it would be way more effective if you responded to questions at least for a day or two and maybe had a pre-written piece ready to release on your own blog simultaneously.
Internet attention is fleeting.

The four questions that BTD raised up top are indeed what is needed. How to get from 400K to 700K in three to four years is the burning question ... even first time and newbie MMMrs want the specifics laid out so they can see the reality of such a possibility - otherwise, it sounds like nothing but fantasy and click bait.

Sorry, don't mean to rain on your parade - it's good to get the message out, period. CONGRATS well done!:)

Prairie Moustache

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2019, 09:58:16 AM »
Wow...the comments are...um...weird.

Like, why are so many commenters so invested? They're just talking back and forth at each other in this bizarre dialogue that vaguely floats about between criticizing people they know little about and making sweeping generalizations as if the article is trying to impose this lifestyle on people.

They guy who got angry about vegetarianism being imposed on millenials?? Where did that come from??? Did anyone say anything about "having" to be vegetarian? It was a reasonable response to the claim that meat is expensive.

No one said anything about anyone having to do anything, nowhere in the entire article was there any statement to that effect.

Yeesh.

Besides, the endless comments about the grocery budget being "unrealistic" are giving me a solid laugh though. How that would result in a boring and awful diet. Lol.

Our groceries are even lower than that, and DH and I are well known for our fantastic meals, and regularly have friends and family inviting themselves over for food.

Then there are the comments about how dull the overall lifestyle would be, when it's written clearly that a large part of the budget is extensive international travel.
Fuck, I'M envious!!
Japan?? Seriously??? Ugh...I hate you guys right now.

Y'know what's boring?
The lives of most people I know who live in the suburbs, work very long hours, have very long commutes in very heavy traffic, and just sometimes go out to big box chain restaurants for overly salty, overly fatty, boring, reheated, shitty food because they live in a cultural wasteland.

A suburban-dwelling colleague recently spent a Saturday with me so that she could learn a specialized technique. She described it as "the most exciting day of her entire life". I looked at her confused and said "this is a work day for me".

Granted, it was quite the day and several serious laws were broken, and she got to try a proper paella for the first time, so...I mean...it was eventful, that's for sure.

Spending doesn't make life less boring, it just makes it more expensive. Living life is what's exciting.

I think there's a die hard crowd of older folks that post in the CBC comments in a feedback loop of rage that they don't understand how to get out of. A guilty pleasure of mine is reading the comments on the click-baity climate change articles the CBC posts.

Cassie

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2019, 12:33:38 PM »
I just read some of the comments and wow the hate.  As a boomer I believe that people can accomplish this lifestyle if it brings them happiness.   I never understood why people feel threatened when someone follows a different drummer. When we retired at 58 and 53 we had a few friends tell us we were making a big mistake, etc.   We lost a few friends over this despite having small pensions. We downsized our house which they also thought was a mistake. We are nowhere near as frugal as Z.

Zikoris

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2019, 05:20:24 PM »

Y'know what's boring?
The lives of most people I know who live in the suburbs, work very long hours, have very long commutes in very heavy traffic, and just sometimes go out to big box chain restaurants for overly salty, overly fatty, boring, reheated, shitty food because they live in a cultural wasteland.

I know, right? Like, honestly, we and most people we know in real life think we have pretty awesome lives because of all our hobbies, projects, travel, and interests - to me, a lifestyle where your "fun" consists of drinking, shitty restaurants, and sitting in front of a tv for hours a day is something out of a nightmare, not something to aspire to.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2019, 05:26:50 PM »
I just read some of the comments and wow the hate.  As a boomer I believe that people can accomplish this lifestyle if it brings them happiness.   I never understood why people feel threatened when someone follows a different drummer. When we retired at 58 and 53 we had a few friends tell us we were making a big mistake, etc.   We lost a few friends over this despite having small pensions. We downsized our house which they also thought was a mistake. We are nowhere near as frugal as Z.

I tell you what, the most bizarre thing to me is the idea that you would actually lose friends because you retired before 65. There are some remarkably petty and jealous people in the world and if I’ve learned anything I’ve learned, they were never your true fiends. So really, you lost nothing, except dead weight.

Zikoris

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2019, 05:31:11 PM »
Oh, those comments ROFL

My fav:
Quote
The average millennial has less than 8000 dollars in savings, a massive debt from school, no car no spouse no kids .... highest suicide rates ever for the age group and on meds..retire LOL

If you are in Japan presently then it is unfortunate timing for this airing since it would be way more effective if you responded to questions at least for a day or two and maybe had a pre-written piece ready to release on your own blog simultaneously.
Internet attention is fleeting.

The four questions that BTD raised up top are indeed what is needed. How to get from 400K to 700K in three to four years is the burning question ... even first time and newbie MMMrs want the specifics laid out so they can see the reality of such a possibility - otherwise, it sounds like nothing but fantasy and click bait.

Sorry, don't mean to rain on your parade - it's good to get the message out, period. CONGRATS well done!:)

Yeah, the timing was a little wonky by coincidence - last night we responded to some of the Facebook ones, anyways. There actually aren't that many things we can really respond to - a lot of them are just "I wouldn't want to do this", which is totally legitimate, if you don't want to do something, don't. I'm hesitant to get into any sort of math discussion on Facebook because most of the commentors wouldn't have enough math ability to understand it and it's really hard to explain math concepts in a Facebook comment anyways. I replied to some of the food comments with my grocery tracking charts of what we buy and eat, and gave one person a rough cabin-build breakdown.

I did sort of a basic how-to-FIRE post on my blog a few days before we left town, so that at least people could get an overall idea of what we've done/are doing if they were interested in knowing more.

tipster350

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2019, 08:54:49 PM »
Yikes, the comments. Susan Smith is not as clever as s/he thinks.

csr

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2019, 09:28:27 PM »
Nice interview and way to explain the 4% rule!

Cassie

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2019, 01:24:58 PM »
Mr, interesting enough I know through mutual friends that the couple is still working at 73.  They are self employed and work from home. 

Zikoris

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2019, 05:01:38 PM »
I just read some of the comments and wow the hate.  As a boomer I believe that people can accomplish this lifestyle if it brings them happiness.   I never understood why people feel threatened when someone follows a different drummer. When we retired at 58 and 53 we had a few friends tell us we were making a big mistake, etc.   We lost a few friends over this despite having small pensions. We downsized our house which they also thought was a mistake. We are nowhere near as frugal as Z.

I tell you what, the most bizarre thing to me is the idea that you would actually lose friends because you retired before 65. There are some remarkably petty and jealous people in the world and if I’ve learned anything I’ve learned, they were never your true fiends. So really, you lost nothing, except dead weight.

I wonder sometimes if there might be a generational aspect to it. Purely anecdotally, I've notice that the older people I know seem to feel more... "connected" I guess, to their work, like it's more a part of their identity? I don't know very many younger people who feel that way, unless they're in some real passion field like an artist or something. Certainly I never have. I could see how if a person felt that work was a really important part of someone's identity/purpose/self, they might find the whole concept of FIRE almost offensive.

Cassie

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2019, 06:26:00 PM »
I am 65 but actually started my career later than most due to having 3 kids young, being a SAHM until youngest went to college and then 3 college degrees.   So I loved working in my chosen field and felt I was making a difference in people’s lives.  So I was a late bloomer:))

avrex

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2019, 09:07:17 PM »
Congratulations @Zikoris .  Nice article. 

We need to hear more stories from people like yourself. 

A lot of the 'FIRE at an early age' articles seem to be from people who make six-figure salaries and are able to exit the workforce quickly.  Since most of the population doesn't make six-figure salaries, it's hard for the regular person to relate to and understand that, yes, it is possible to FIRE at a relatively early age.  It's important to hear stories from people like you, who, with median salaries, can demonstrate that FIRE is very attainable.

You guys are doing so well.  You are happy.  You are doing everything you want in life..... including extensive travelling, which I love.

Great stuff.  Keep going.   :)


Zikoris

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2019, 12:29:32 AM »
Congratulations @Zikoris .  Nice article. 

We need to hear more stories from people like yourself. 

A lot of the 'FIRE at an early age' articles seem to be from people who make six-figure salaries and are able to exit the workforce quickly.  Since most of the population doesn't make six-figure salaries, it's hard for the regular person to relate to and understand that, yes, it is possible to FIRE at a relatively early age.  It's important to hear stories from people like you, who, with median salaries, can demonstrate that FIRE is very attainable.

I hope so! Certainly from the comments on these types of articles, it seems like people always come up with something about the person/family featured to make them decide they can't relate.

If it's a couple? "Yeah, it's only because they're dual income, single people don't have a chance."

Single person? "It only works because they're single, if they had a partner that would be the end of their frugality."

High income? "You can't retire early on less than six figures income, look at these rich assholes acting like they're doing something hard."

Low/medium income? "They don't eat in restaurants or go drinking? What a horrible shitty life, I'd rather work forever!"

Early on in the journey to FIRE? "Yeah, there's no way that plan is going to work."

Nearing the end, with a high net worth? "They're obviously lying about something, nobody gets to that net worth with just the stuff they talk about doing."

Meat eater? "Their grocery spending is only low because they can eat anything, if they had dietary restrictions, like being vegan, it would all be over."

Vegan? "Obviously their grocery spending is only low because they don't eat animal products, nobody with a normal diet could do that."

Big/normal-sized house? "That lets them buy in bulk and store so much stuff that helps them save money (tools, kitchen equipment, etc), they'd be screwed living in a small apartment!"

Tiny apartment? "Well OF COURSE they can save a fortune if they live in a small, cheap place, nobody with normal-sized living spaces can do that!"

So it is literally impossible to win, because whatever option you pick out of two, people will have excuses ready for both of them.

PoutineLover

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2019, 12:39:10 PM »
I saw that article and thought it was you, so cool! The haters in the comment section look pretty ridiculous, I guess they missed the part where you travel all over the world if they think your lifestyle is boring. Hopefully this article sparks an interest in some people. Seeing faces, jobs and earnings attached to the FIRE movement might make it seem more achievable to regular people.

pachnik

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2019, 12:53:13 PM »
I saw that article and thought it was you, so cool! The haters in the comment section look pretty ridiculous, I guess they missed the part where you travel all over the world if they think your lifestyle is boring. Hopefully this article sparks an interest in some people. Seeing faces, jobs and earnings attached to the FIRE movement might make it seem more achievable to regular people.

This is exactly what I don't get about the comments - Zikoris and her partner travel the world.  They take international trips every year.  What is boring about this? 
So they don't spend a lot of $$$ eating out all year long.  They use that money to go out of the country.

Kris

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2019, 12:59:50 PM »
I saw that article and thought it was you, so cool! The haters in the comment section look pretty ridiculous, I guess they missed the part where you travel all over the world if they think your lifestyle is boring. Hopefully this article sparks an interest in some people. Seeing faces, jobs and earnings attached to the FIRE movement might make it seem more achievable to regular people.

This is exactly what I don't get about the comments - Zikoris and her partner travel the world.  They take international trips every year.  What is boring about this? 
So they don't spend a lot of $$$ eating out all year long.  They use that money to go out of the country.

People are kind of crazy. Lots of folks who have dreams they don't know how to achieve prefer to think they are just not achievable. So when they see someone else who has achieved what they want, it's more comfortable to look for ways that they are either lying, secretly miserable, or have made a stupid choice that will backfire hugely on them later.

I think those kinds of people are the ones most likely to hang out in comments sections of articles shitposting.

Gerard

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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2019, 03:59:10 PM »
Some nice perceptive comments in here about commenters, both the FI haters and the full-time CBC commenters who can make anything into a rant about millenials, scientists, tiny homes, the Liberal party, or the management of the Toronto Raptors.


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Re: CBC piece on FIRE
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2019, 04:13:55 PM »

Congratulations!

Many of those commenters are jealous, ignorant, general trolls, or a combination there-of.