Author Topic: Case Study:It's never too late ..  (Read 15919 times)

LiseE

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Case Study:It's never too late ..
« on: April 16, 2014, 09:22:11 PM »
I'm hooked.  Sadly my DH and I are in our mid 40's .. wish I hadn't waited so long to get our act together.  We've lived comfortably for 10 years now never really knowing where our money was going.  I manage our finances and have been working to pay down our 35K CC debt which never seems to go anywhere.  This is partially due to the fact that I may more than the minimum on all four cards and I now know attack the balance on one while paying the minimum on the others until it's all gone.

After finding and reading through this blog for the past two weeks I am fully on board and while we have some work cut out for us, I know it can be done.  I still have to sell my hubby on it all though.  I just finished reading The Total Money Makeover which I will ask him to read as well for it's clean and simple explanation of what needs to be done and that we BOTH need to be on board for this to work.

I spent some time really looking into our expenses and put the following together.  This is for last year and I've put notes next to the items that we will make changes.  This is a first pass .. I know there is more trimming to be done but I'm pretty excited about the numbers already.

<deep breath> ... here goes ...

                            2013 Monthly        2014 Monthly
Oil                                  $250.00              $250.00
Electric                     $125.00              $125.00
Gas (Propane)               $27.83                $27.83
Comcast                     $186.68              $186.68
Garbage                       $36.50                      $36.50
Mortgage -  1st       $2,342.00            $2,342.00
Mortgage - HELOC      $500.00               $500.00
Mortgage - Timeshare   $281.67                   $0.00
Groceries                   $1,500.00               $800.00
Monthly Avg. Eat Out   $668.00               $300.00
Auto - Gas              $585.00               $400.00
Auto - Insurance      $306.00               $250.00
Auto - Maintenance      $166.67                  $166.67
Life Insurance              $190.00               $190.00
Hubby(Lunch/Coffee)   $200.00               $200.00
Wifey (Lunch/Coffee)   $200.00               $200.00
Taekwondo              $150.00               $150.00
Credit Card Expense   $875.00            $2,875.00 (The minimum is still $875 .. I'm paying down an additional 2K each month which should reduce all CC by 2015)
            
Total Living Expenses   $8,590.35             $8,999.68
Income (Net)         $10,890.00           $10,890.00
            
Positive Cash Flow        $2,299.65             $1,890.32

The Lunch/Coffee allocations are there as a cushion as we start to get into this I'm hoping these will go away .. just trying to be realistic as we start out.  Just paying attention to the spending is going to be a significant change for us!

OK .. lets hear it .. what can we do better?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 09:26:41 PM by LittleMissCuz »

CU Tiger

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2014, 09:25:04 PM »
Get rid of the cable? That can go directly towards your next CC.

LiseE

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2014, 09:28:40 PM »
Sorry .. I added a note about that 2014 Credit Card Expense .. it is still $875 but I'm paying the additional 2K a month to pay it down .. I want to get rid of cable bill but it's a hard sell to hubby .. working on it.  He agreed to get rid of movie channels so I'm hoping to strike a deal with cable company for now.

Rube

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2014, 09:31:23 PM »
What kind of rate do you have on those credit cards? Several years ago we got on the horn for my SIL and got her from 1.5% per month to .9% annually. That was just as a result of calling without really even negotiating. I think she had a balance around $18k

MDM

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2014, 09:35:37 PM »
Yes, do "something" with the CC debt if the interest is high: either change the rate (renegotiate or balance transfer) or pay the debt.

IRA and/or 401k options?

Even without cutting costs, you have ~$1900/mo that could remove high interest debt or be invested.  Where does your positive cash flow go now?

kkbmustang

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2014, 09:39:33 PM »
First off, welcome to the forums! My husband and I started reading MMM about a year and a half ago and it has really impacted us. First, start where you are and don't look back. We have made changes slowly over time vs the Mustachian 180 option.

We started with changes that we felt would be easy fixes first with the least amount of pain, so to speak. These would include:

Cable. We reduced the premium package but left basic. Then got used to that, added Hulu and Netflix then got rid of cable. For live streaming of TV we use Aereo. It allows some DVR capability just like cable.

Electricity. Look around for a lower rate provider. Adjust thermostats. Unplug appliances, hair dryers, etc. from the wall in between uses. Turn off lights when you leave the room, open the blinds, etc.

Insurance. Increase deductibles, shop providers, etc.

Groceries and dining out. You've made a good first step, but you can still improve. Maybe try reducing by $50/mo to start? Taking lunches from home 1-2 times per week.

Questions.
You don't have phone or medical included in your list. Are you forgetting these expenses?
Does your 1st mortgage include taxes and insurance?
Look around your house for crap you don't use that you can sell. Throw that money at the CCs.

LiseE

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2014, 09:39:59 PM »
We have 450K in our 401K's and contribute 15% which is matched 100% by our employers.  Also have another 100K in a SEP IRA that I inherited from my brother.  We do not have an emergency fund so that extra money should/would go to funding that as we have little that is liquid.

The rates are 11%, 17%, 6% and 29% (this one will be paid in full this month .. yippee!)  I hear what you are saying about getting these rates lowered but if I'm aggressively going to pay them down to zero this year will it make much of a difference? (probably a stupid question)

LiseE

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2014, 09:43:33 PM »
Medical is provided by hubby's work for free (we pay nothing for the plan) ... our cellphones are paid for by employers as well.  Home Phone and internet included in the cable number.  Mortgage payment does include taxes and insurance.  I did forget our property tax bill on the stupid car which is 1K a year.

I posted my first Craigslist item last week and sold a table and chairs for $800!  That selling of stuff is going to be addicting too.

I'm also working to find a more fuel efficient car.  I've been advised to sell it through Craigslist however I learned that by trading it in, I only pay sales tax on the difference .. ??
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 09:46:02 PM by LittleMissCuz »

kkbmustang

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2014, 09:44:55 PM »
Please PM me the name of your hubby's company. Must get my hubby a job there. Stat.

Rube

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2014, 10:00:51 PM »
Yes, refinance that debt with a better rate or balance transfers. You're probably at well over $200 a month in interest on the front end of the debt.

LiseE

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2014, 10:07:43 PM »
kkbmustang .. you're too funny ... hold on to your hat .. although he's currently only contributing 9% to his 401K they will provide 100% match up to 20% contribution .. I made him bring home something in writing because I didn't believe that one myself.

kkbmustang

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2014, 10:18:37 PM »
That 20% match is virtually unheard of and I worked in that space for 15 years. That's amazing. What's the vesting schedule?

Cassie

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2014, 10:22:14 PM »
Everyone always says get rid of the cable but if you only have basic it can be a great source of entertainment for a small cost. I did not have it when raising the kids-wanted them to do other things but really in an adult only house  I think you should be open to the cost-benefit.

MDM

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2014, 10:38:20 PM »
Based on the back of the envelope in front of me, the word "sadly" isn't coming to mind regarding your finances ;).  Gross income >$200K?  Good for you!  I'm serious - no sarcasm.  Now, can you do better with your spending and investments and thus decrease time to FIRE?  Well, yes...and that's what you are starting so have at it!

Your post doesn't mention kids.  If no kids (and both working?), you could stop paying life insurance now.

Definitely pay off all debt with interest >10% ASAP, and even the 6% is a great "sure return" to pay off.  Check the HELOC and primary mortgage rates to see how aggressive you should be there also.

Appears you make too much for IRAs, but you should both be doing $17.5K/yr on your 401Ks.

Oh, and has anyone mentioned paying off your credit cards?  (yes, that was sarcasm)

LiseE

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2014, 06:38:43 AM »
We have two boys (8 & 6) .. we put $150 a month into two 529's for them as well. 

kkbmustang .. he was fully vested at 5 years he's been there 6 ... he is always looking around for the "greener grass" ... I've told him I don't think it gets any greener than this!  But I ensured that he knewwhat we stood to lose if he didn't stay for at least the five year period.

I think it was in Dave Ramsey's book that talked about it .. so much of this is common sense but we are all never really taught how to manage money or finances.  We watch our parents and the example they set but that's about it in this country.  My parents were hard working Italian immigrants and I have a strong work ethic because I watched my Dad work hard and retire as a senior executive in his firm.  He didn't own a credit card until I was in my 20's.  He was not an investor at all and didn't get into that until later in life but he still never talked to any of us about money management.  Same with my hubby ... parents set a great example but no knowledge transfer.

So while much of it is common sense (don't spend more than you earn) some education (which I'm gaining now) is needed in general.  I'm going to make sure I sit my boys down and explain compound interest to them!

Are they too young to do it now?  :) 

gecko10x

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2014, 08:50:45 AM »
Regarding food, here's a target to shoot for: We are a family of 4; 2 adults, 2 boys- ages 6 and 4, and our budget is:

Groceries: $600
Eating out: $60
Lunch/ coffee: $0 (almost 100% leftovers)

I do realize that the above may be difficult, hence the "target". (I will not rehash all the ways to get there; there are tons of threads already on the board about this. )

anisotropy

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2014, 11:15:30 AM »
what happened to the timeshare ?

TrMama

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2014, 11:40:44 AM »
$190/mo for life insurance? Really? Can I assume you have a whole life policy? Look into getting rid of it and getting basic term insurance instead.

Also, are you really paying $250/mo, every month for home heating oil? If so, that seems pretty high if you live south of the arctic circle. Turn down the friggin' heat. Get a programmable thermostat (a basic 5-2 model, not a fancy web controlled one) and turn the furnace down when you're not home and when you're sleeping.

ZiziPB

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2014, 01:02:54 PM »
$250 per month for heating oil is not that much if you live in the Northeast.  Heating oil is prohibitively expensive but in most instances there are no alternatives.  We easily spent  around $5K per year in CT with the thermostat at 62-68 and supplementing with wood burning insert (it was a large house though).

ZiziPB

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2014, 01:45:25 PM »
Cutting cable would not be my first priority since you have a lot of other fat to trim from your budget.

Quote
                          2013 Monthly        2014 Monthly
Oil                                  $250.00              $250.00
Electric                     $125.00              $125.00
Gas (Propane)               $27.83                $27.83
Comcast                     $186.68              $186.68 Try lowering this by getting rid of premium add ons and calling Comcast to negotiate a lower price.
Garbage                       $36.50                      $36.50
Mortgage -  1st       $2,342.00            $2,342.00
Mortgage - HELOC      $500.00               $500.00
Mortgage - Timeshare   $281.67                   $0.00 What are you planning to do with the timeshare
 Groceries                   $1,500.00               $800.00
Monthly Avg. Eat Out   $668.00               $300.00
There is definitely fat to trim there, especially eating out
Auto - Gas              $585.00               $400.00
Auto - Insurance      $306.00               $250.00 This still seems very expensive.  Shop around more to reduce.  Call an independent agent in addition to pricing it on the internet
Auto - Maintenance      $166.67                  $166.67
Life Insurance              $190.00               $190.00 This seems very high.  Are these whole life policies?  Can you switch to term?
Hubby(Lunch/Coffee)   $200.00               $200.00
Wifey (Lunch/Coffee)   $200.00               $200.00
  Ouch!  You really should focus on reducing that for both of you.  Can you pack your lunch instead?  Can husband do that? Coffee from home?
Taekwondo              $150.00               $150.00
Credit Card Expense   $875.00            $2,875.00

What about things like clothes and other shopping?  You are surely missing some other spending categories or you would not have $35K in CC debt.  You mentioned on the other thread that the husband spend $10K on Amazon last year.  Are you assuming that it will just stop?

BlueHouse

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2014, 02:13:38 PM »
I'm going to make sure I sit my boys down and explain compound interest to them!

Are they too young to do it now?  :)
They are not too young and could be of great help to you on this journey.  I helped my mom stop the credit card debt problem by creating a plan for her and drawing some graphs (in Excel) showing the payoff date.  Once she saw the picture, she did a complete attitude turn-around and started paying off more than I had planned for the repayments.  She got it paid off in half the time I estimated because she saw a visual that worked for her.  Get your boys involved and not only will they learn life lessons, but they'll encourage you to find less expensive ways to do other things.  Kids get really excited about helping to solve problems, so take advantage of their enthusiasm and help.  This could be one of the best lessons you will every teach! 
Good luck on this journey!  kbb's words are very wise -- "don't look back".  I'm starting my journey at about the same age as you guys, and looking back at what "could have been" is just painful.   

MissStache

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2014, 02:49:40 PM »
I feel like you are missing some spending categories here, like all the excess stuff.  How about that Amazon spending?  Or buying clothes?  Or places like Home Depot or Lowes?

You really need to know where every penny is going- not just the easily categorized spending.  When I started looking at my finances, it was the "miscellaneous" category that really blew me away and made me realize how foolish I was being with my money.

For more specific items you listed:

Groceries                   $1,500.00               $800.00- This is a lot, even for 4 people, especially including the line below!  You can get this down quite a bit without a lot of effort!Monthly Avg. Eat Out   $668.00               $300.00

Auto - Gas              $585.00               $400.00 This is a lot!  What vehicles do you drive?
Auto - Insurance      $306.00               $250.00 Related to the above question about what kind of car/cars you have, as more expensive cars cost way more to insure, but this is a lot to pay per month.

Hubby(Lunch/Coffee)   $200.00               $200.00
Wifey (Lunch/Coffee)   $200.00               $200.00
Wean yourself off of this!  I allow myself $150/month for ALL discretionary, personal spending (but then again, I am also debt free :) )

You've made some great strides since last year, so kudos!  But you also have a lot more to cut, which is actually great.  There is nothing worse than seeing a case study where they are living on bare bones but are thousands and thousands in debt.  You guys are in a GREAT position to demolish your debt and set yourself up for a lovely early retirement!

aclarridge

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2014, 03:06:22 PM »
I'm going to make sure I sit my boys down and explain compound interest to them!

Are they too young to do it now?  :)
They are not too young and could be of great help to you on this journey.  I helped my mom stop the credit card debt problem by creating a plan for her and drawing some graphs (in Excel) showing the payoff date.  Once she saw the picture, she did a complete attitude turn-around and started paying off more than I had planned for the repayments.  She got it paid off in half the time I estimated because she saw a visual that worked for her.  Get your boys involved and not only will they learn life lessons, but they'll encourage you to find less expensive ways to do other things.  Kids get really excited about helping to solve problems, so take advantage of their enthusiasm and help.  This could be one of the best lessons you will every teach! 
Good luck on this journey!  kbb's words are very wise -- "don't look back".  I'm starting my journey at about the same age as you guys, and looking back at what "could have been" is just painful.   

My father explained it to me when I was in primary school, fairly early on I think. It always fascinated me and I've always been a saver.

LiseE

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2014, 05:01:18 PM »
Thanks so much everybody .. great feedback and it is true .. the miscellaneous spending is not allocated for but that is part of the $200 monthly allowance I'm giving to both my hubby and myself.  I know we can totally scale back on buying lunch at work but i'm also taking baby steps .. i think just tracking these expenses right now is a HUGE step for us and the additional cutting of expense will become evident as we look at our spending each month.  As Dave Ramsey mentions in his book, we're going to start an envelop system to budget for clothing, household, etc.

We drive v6's and we each have 40 mile commutes.  I'm already looking into selling mine (audi Q7) for a used hybrid and my hubby's car (3 series bmw) is over 120K miles.  He will also get a more efficient fuel engine car.  So the gas and insurance is accurate.  Hubby had a few minor accidents in the past years which is why the insurance is currently so high (ugh).

The grocery bill was 1500 a month!  Until hubby and I spoke and we realized that he was taking out his spending cash at the grocery store!  I'm starting at 800 a month but this month alone I know we'll come in closer to 600 so that number can be adjusted soon I hope.  We also planted a vegetable garden this spring and hope to save on groceries with our veggie crops.

Insurance is high .. it's 20 year term .. any good places to check for better rates?  We got it with our home insurer as part of a package (home/auto/life) .. but have since changed auto insurance so we can shop elsewhere.  It's also for both of us since we both work (one policy for hubby and one for me for each for 500K .. should we lower the amount?)

We are planning to sell the timeshare .. don't know how much (if anything) we will get for it but just not paying that bill each month will be great!

MissStach ... I believe you have a very valid point ... now that we're looking we need to look at the miscellaneous spending and see what can be trimmed there.


Blindsquirrel

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2014, 05:18:47 AM »
    Get online and you can most likely do way better on 500K term insurance. Selectquote and aigdirect are places to start. Unless you are very old or sick my guess is you can cut that by 2/3 to 1/2. Good luck!

TrulyStashin

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2014, 07:40:58 AM »
As Dave Ramsey mentions in his book, we're going to start an envelop system to budget for clothing, household, etc.

We drive v6's and we each have 40 mile commutes.  I'm already looking into selling mine (audi Q7) for a used hybrid and my hubby's car (3 series bmw) is over 120K miles.  He will also get a more efficient fuel engine car. 

Check out You Need a Budget http://www.youneedabudget.com/ for a great "envelope" style system that is superior to actual envelopes.  There are multiple threads on here about YNAB's virtues.

Goodness gracious get rid of that Audi and BMW!  Prior to finding MMM and my Mustachian 180, I had a 1-series convertible.  That damn thing cost me a forture for even the most basic maintenance and an actual repair bill?!.... forget it.  They're a nightmare of nickel-and-dime costs.  A rock hit and cracked my windshield and replacing it cost me over $800.  I was afraid to drive it once I realized how badly it hit my wallet everytime something went wrong.  Get cars that cost you the least amount possible while serving your needs.  I now drive a 2007 Prius and love it.  My total monthly gas costs dropped from $300/ mo to about $110.

Good luck, keep going and don't look back.  You'll be amazed how far you come in a short time.

MrsPete

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2014, 07:51:11 AM »
$402/month between gas, electric and oil -- admittedly, I don't know about gas and oil, but I'm thinking that you must have a BIG HOUSE to need this much energy.  I'd consider downsizing . . . or, if the problem is that you lack insulation, address that issue.

Almost 3K/month in mortgage costs!  I don't earn much more than that!  Again, I vote downsize the house. 

Over $1000/month on cars -- PLUS another $1000 for taxes -- and you didn't mention car payments, so I assume they're paid off.  Wow, you can do better than this.  Do you really need two cars? 

If you JUST fix the above items, you'll have put yourself far, far, far down the road towards FIRE.
kkbmustang .. you're too funny ... hold on to your hat .. although he's currently only contributing 9% to his 401K they will provide 100% match up to 20% contribution .. I made him bring home something in writing because I didn't believe that one myself.
You have some excellent benefits, and there's no excuse not to max out "matched money".  I just read your other post in which you talked about how much you've accumulated in your 401Ks; honestly, though it looks like a good chunk, now I'm wondering why it isn't much, much more.  You've been working probably 20 years, and this match is really extraordinary. 
Everyone always says get rid of the cable but if you only have basic it can be a great source of entertainment for a small cost. I did not have it when raising the kids-wanted them to do other things but really in an adult only house  I think you should be open to the cost-benefit.
We have cable.  Yeah, we could save $100/month on it, but we're ahead of the curve, even for this board, and it's a luxury we've chosen to keep.

For the OP:  Since you have so much debt to dump, perhaps you could consider getting rid of cable UNTIL the debt is gone.  It'll be a reminder of what you're working towards.
I think it was in Dave Ramsey's book that talked about it .. so much of this is common sense but we are all never really taught how to manage money or finances.   
People are always whining, "No one ever taught me!"  Yet I remember very specifically my algebra teacher having us repeat over and over, "I want a simple interest loan with no pre-payment penalty".  And I've seen my students toting around worksheets concerning credit card usage, checking accounts, and budgets -- and my own girls brought home such work in elementary school, AND in middle school, AND in high school Civics/Economics. 

I personally grew up with poor examples of money management in my household, and in high school /college I realized I wanted to do better:  So I hit the library, I read, and I learned -- I reinforced what had been taught in school, and I read about investing, living in a frugal way, and anything else I could find to help myself.  Today it's considerably easier since the information is available on the internet. 

The information's being taught -- but I think the real issue is that kids don't recognize it as important, perhaps because it "feels" too far in the future, but kids just don't internalize the lessons. 

dude

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2014, 08:15:01 AM »
For sure the good news for you guys is that you are in an excellent position to turn this thing around 180 degrees before you hit that iceberg. With your high incomes, a shitload of fat to cut pretty easily, and a RIDICULOUS 401k option available to you (holy shit is that a lot of free money!!!), you can quite easily get a handle on this thing and make huge strides rather quickly.  Admitting the problem, as you have, is the hardest step.  Now you just have to let that FIRE desire take hold and really start fanning the flames one step at a time (cut those stupid expenses that are not adding to your quality of life!!!).  Yours is probably one of the easier cases I've seen in this forum.  Good luck and please keep us posted -- I'd love to hear from you in January about being credit card debt-free!

ZiziPB

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2014, 08:18:05 AM »
To the OP: I get the impression that you don't yet have a good handle on the real amount of debt and financial obligations you have or your actual spending.  It seems that you are overwhelmed by it all, which can definitely lead to trying to do too much at once and failing.  Focus on on a couple of things at the beginning.  I suggest that you first make a list of of your debts and obligations with exact amounts outstanding and interest rates.  Include every little thing that needs to be paid and list it here.  Seems like that inventory itself will be eye opening.  At the same time commit to tracking every single dollar spent for a couple of months.  Again, post the results here.  And then come up with a plan involving one or two changes per month (cut out discretionary spending for a month and see how it goes, then stop buying lunch at work, etc.). 

To the posters pointing out the OPs high energy consumption costs, I'd say, leave that alone.  The costs are quite reasonable if the OP lives somewhere in the Northeast.  I really think that there is something else going on there and the OP has bigger issues that need to be addressed first (the other thread mentioned the husband spending $10,000 last year on "DVDs and crap" on Amazon...).

The OPs hair is on fire and she desperately needs to deal with that first before she even starts thinking about retiring early.

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2014, 08:29:23 AM »
A cool way to teach your kids about the power of compounding is the story "A Grain of Rice". There are several illustrated versions for kids. For example:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/417181.One_Grain_Of_Rice

The hero asks the emperor for a grain of rice on day one, doubling on day two, doubling that on day three, and so on. The emperor says yes, then sees all his rice taken from him by the end of the month (or the end of the chessboard, depending on the version).

alphalemming

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2014, 03:06:06 PM »
I taught my kids about compound interest by using malt balls.  I told them that they wanted to eat 5 malt balls per day and earned 5 malt balls per day.  They had a choice:  eat all 5 or reduce consumption by 1 and save it.  I gave them a 10% rate of interest, and it didn't take long for them to figure they needed to save 50 malt balls to generate a steady stream of 5 per day.  Both were unanimous in voicing the opinion they would rather save to generate the steady stream, then eat all 5 they received each day.

BlueHouse

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2014, 03:13:07 PM »
I taught my kids about compound interest by using malt balls.  I told them that they wanted to eat 5 malt balls per day and earned 5 malt balls per day.  They had a choice:  eat all 5 or reduce consumption by 1 and save it.  I gave them a 10% rate of interest, and it didn't take long for them to figure they needed to save 50 malt balls to generate a steady stream of 5 per day.  Both were unanimous in voicing the opinion they would rather save to generate the steady stream, then eat all 5 they received each day.
That is awesome!  For some of us, no matter how many different ways we "see" the story, it's not real until we feel it with something tangible.  I've seen the rice story, and I've run the numbers on calculators a billion times.  Until it was my money, it just never clicked.  Thanks for sharing, alphalemming!

LiseE

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2014, 03:18:51 PM »
OP here ..  :)

I have a very good handle on our debt but a terrible handle on our spending .. that is what i'm working on next.  This is what we owe in detail:

Credit Card Debt:
3111 @29.49% Citicards
7821 @17.24 Chase
15,444.00 @9.24
9322 @7.24% Discover

HELOC 128K at 4.125%
1st Mort 280K @ 4.1% Fixed 30yr.

I know we can trim more and we will but we are just starting out and I do not want to make it too much too soon.  We have been 'just spending' for lunches and coffee's etc.  Just giving ourselves an allowance will be a first step .. seeing what we actually spend will be the next step and the trimming will begin.

I'm actually happy with our heating and fuel costs .. we worked hard this year and kept the heat down and bundled up.  We had a brutal winter here in the northeast and the 3K in oil I think is reasonable and might even be considered good.  We have a modest 2600 sqft house built in the 60's.  I'd like to do an energy audit and I suspect we need to do some re-insulating.  We had ice dams on our roof which is evidence of poor insulation.  We also thought about getting a pellet stove insert for the fireplace but I need to do a cost analysis to see what the pros and cons are .. the insert is not cheap.

We do need two cars as we both commute but those costs should drop once I sell my car and get a proper commute worthy vehicle. 

401K's aren't bigger because hubby has only been contributing for the past 5 years. 

My hubby is already starting to get on board more and more .. I suggested grabbing some lunch after church today and he said .. "lets just eat at home" .. bad habits die hard but I was happy he was the one to remind me!


ZiziPB

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2014, 04:28:28 AM »
Good for you for listing these out here.  Sounds like your cars are paid in full, so I'd say keep them for now and just focus on reducing the discretionary spending as much as you can and pay off those credit cards as soon as you can.  You should be able to knock them out in less than a year if you stick to your budget.  After that increase the husband's 401k contributions to the max (actually, if I were you, I would do that first because the difference in your take home pay would be minimal, but I can understand your resistance to a certain extent - do the calculations to see what the reduction in your take home is and what is the actual amount that would be accruing in the 401k if he did that).

Do you have any emergency fund or cash savings other than your retirement plans?

LiseE

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2014, 06:28:26 AM »
Quote
Sounds like your cars are paid in full,
... yes that is correct.  I'm going to switch to 89 octane gas to help reduce the gas expense.  I've been driving more slowly to work and am getting decent gas mileage considering it's a V6 (22mpg).

Quote
Do you have any emergency fund or cash savings other than your retirement plans?
.. no emergency fund which scares me somewhat .. I'm going to start one based on the Baby Steps that Dave Ramsey outlines with just 1000.00 ... then it's at least out there.

I also just downloaded and am playing around with YNAB .. they have you getting to a point where you are paying your monthly expenses with the prior month's paycheck .. while not a true emergency fund it will provide a temporary cushion.

There are just so many things we need to start doing .. I struggle with what to attack first?  I'd love to max out hubby's 401K but I also just want these credit cards out of our lives FOREVER!  We also have to start an emergency fund for sure.

Where do you all keep your emergency funds to that they liquid but earning some interest?

ZiziPB

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2014, 06:37:09 AM »
I have most of my emergency fund in a liquid CD at Ally bank.  Currently at .87% which is nothing but it allows me to sleep at night ;-)  I keep 6 months worth of expenses as my emergency fund but I am single (so one income) and it would take me a while to get a new job in my field.

As to your husband's 401k, look at the math:

Increase the contributions to the max (additional $7,200 through the end of the year).  Assuming ~30% tax rate, that is about ~$5,000 out of pocket. For $5,000 he would be getting $14,400 in his 401k which is guaranteed!  A return of 200%!!!!  That will reduce your take home pay by $312.50 per paycheck through the end of the year (assuming he gets paid 2x a month).

ZiziPB

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2014, 06:41:07 AM »
Based on your budget above, you have should have about $1890 per month of available cash.  Increase your planned credit card payments by another $1,000 per month, put $625 into your husband's 401k (see my post above) and add $200 per month to your emergency fund.  Done!

LiseE

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2014, 07:36:07 AM »
Quote
Increase the contributions to the max (additional $7,200 through the end of the year).  Assuming ~30% tax rate, that is about ~$5,000 out of pocket. For $5,000 he would be getting $14,400 in his 401k which is guaranteed!  A return of 200%!!!!  That will reduce your take home pay by $312.50 per paycheck through the end of the year (assuming he gets paid 2x a month).

Thanks for doing the math for me!  Doesn't look like to much of a hit and I believe with our additional spend cutting we can easily do both .. max out 401K and paydown CC debt.

Off and running!  (hope I don't trip!)

pachnik

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2014, 08:19:49 AM »
I'm a little late to the party, but I did want to welcome you to the forum!

I got here in my late 40's about a year ago.  I had no debt and my income is very middle of the road.  So is my husband's income.  I started out by looking at my spending and made lots of cuts there.  It's been a year down the road and I don't miss the stuff that is gone such as daily coffees at McDonalds, newspapers, work lunches out maybe 1 or 2 times a week.  Now I think about my spending before I do it.

It did take a bit of time though and we are such better off now than last year.  I know your husband is more on board now too which is great.


ZiziPB

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2014, 08:46:39 AM »
You can do it - Best of luck to you! 

I suggest you keep either this thread going or start another documenting your progress.  That will keep you accountable and you will also get lots of support along the way.

And remember too that we all  are far from perfect here.  I save a lot but I also drive an expensive car that is a gas guzzler and spend way too much on food and wine.  I compensate, however, by bringing my lunch to work every day ;-)

Rube

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2014, 10:46:24 AM »
If your credit is decent call Citi and Chase immediately and negotiate those rates down. I believe it was Citi we called on behalf of my SIL to cut the rate. I don't know if you'll be able to balance transfer to the lower APR cards since you have rather large lines of credit on those but maybe one of them will bite if you tell them you want to consolidate because it would ultimately be more money for them. Now that I think about it my SIL probably had shitty credit when we got the .9 or 1.9...whatever it was. I think that's your target but maybe they'll go lower.

The biggest APR card is almost 2.5% a MONTH. What a great business to be in!

Breaker

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2014, 12:55:49 PM »
Hi,

Welcome to the forum. 

I don't believe that anyone has mentioned this.  What is the interest rate on the HELOC?  If it is lower than your CC you might consider borrowing the money on the HELOC and paying off the CCs this month.  Then concentrate on getting rid of the HELOC. 

One thing that you need to understand about the CCs is that after you have paid them off you must commit to paying of the balance each month.  Otherwise you will just run up debt on them again.

Good luck

You will be able to do this.

Jan

LiseE

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2015, 11:36:20 AM »
Update: 

Well living with a mustachian mindset for almost two years now.  Just realized today how much invisible stress has been lifted from our shoulders.  Two years ago we .. I .. was always scratching my head wondering where our two very good tech salaries were going each month.  We were living the American dream .. spending because we could .. and we did.  Racking up debt, eating out whenever we wanted .. we weren't shopping crazy people but we spent enough that there wasn't much left to carry over at the end of each month.  With the help of YNAB, I tracked our spending meticulously for 4 months to identify the major bleeding and to also help us establish some controls/budgets around our spending and saving (of which there was none).

I'm happy to share that we now know where every one of our 'little green employees' is going and what their job is.  Things we changed:

  • We both got rid of our premium gas loving German autos and purchased used fuel efficient cars
  • Paid off all credit card debt
  • Many wonderful benefits came out of menu planning - low stress knowing what was for dinner each night in advance, easier grocery shopping (I only allow myself to go once a week .. if I miss something I have to make due!), and major reduced grocery spending.
  • Thanks again to menu planning, we rarely eat out!  This was a life changing thing for my family as we ate out frequently due to the convenience.  We were spending close to $900 a month eating out and my goal for 2014 was to budget $300 a month as I didn't want my family to go into shock.  In actuality, we spend closer to $0 !
  • Cut the cord on cable .. cable, internet and phone is now $50 a month
  • Studied hubby and my spending and the expenses we manage and created budgets for each of us - for example, my monthly budget includes school fees like field trips and book fair/kids sports, etc .. his budget includes dry cleaning, alcohol, etc
  • BEST THING I DID - at the same bank, opened several accounts 1. our main account where both our paychecks go and all our main recurring expenses are paid for from this account - this main account has no debit card associated 2.  DH and I have our own accounts with debt cards and this is the account we handle varying expenses like groceries and dry cleaning, gas, etc.  These accounts are funded through a monthly automatic transfer of funds from our main account. 3. Family Slush Fund - move $500 monthly to this account each month for short term (1 year) large expenses like vacation, house project, etc.  4. Family Savings - automatic transfer of funds from main for the remainder.

We reduced our expenses by 30% and more than doubled our savings!  According to my initial report of our expenses, we were supposed to have approx. 2K remaining each month (which we never really had .. poof .. it vanished somehow) .. and now, at the end of each month we have over 5K each month.  This is with both of us maxing out our 401K's as well.  We use this excess to build our emergency fund, pay down the mortgage and invest. 

My sister-in-law did not believe I could feed our 4 person family for $700 a month .. I love showing her my grocery bill!    I continue to use Mint to track our budgets, spending and investments. 

There's still room for improvement (always room for improvement)
  • Still trying to sell/get rid of our timeshare - what a mistake :(
  • Haven't shopped around for better rate on life insurance
  • Wish I had more time to do projects around the house rather than hiring somebody but working full-time just doesn't currently allow for much time for these tasks
  • We have a TON of stuff in our basement that we're going to inventory, go through and sell ... I'm so done with the STUFF!

Love the idea exchange that takes place on these forums .. really has helped me read the right books, and follow the right path.

- L

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2015, 11:57:30 AM »
Why is he a hard sell with the cable? Found out what he wants to keep. If he wants ESPN then maybe sling for $20 a month is a starting option. Surely cheaper than what you pay now. Also how much does just the internet cost? I know that price can very by location.

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2015, 12:10:54 PM »
Wow, good for you and your family, love to see updated posts like this. 

FrugalFan

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2015, 12:12:35 PM »
Great update! What a turnaround! Did you track your change in net worth over this time period?

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2015, 01:00:08 PM »
LiseE, Thanks for the update and congratulations on doing such an excellent turn-around.  Especially with kids in the mix, it can be hard to make the sort of changes you've accomplished.   !!!!

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2015, 01:17:04 PM »
Why is he a hard sell with the cable? Found out what he wants to keep. If he wants ESPN then maybe sling for $20 a month is a starting option. Surely cheaper than what you pay now. Also how much does just the internet cost? I know that price can very by location.
SERIOUSLY!
I was paying $125 or so for cable at my last house. When we did our Mustachian downsize move, I took it as an opportunity to break out of the habit. Live sports was one of the things I was most concerned about missing, and our move took us within walking distance to a bar so I figured I had a safety outlet for whenever the craving arose.

Aside from the fact that I discovered I barely missed it, I realized that (like a dumbass) I had completely forgotten about over-the-air TV. I even had an antenna from a past experiment that, it turns out, works great in our new location. I now pay $20/mo for internet service ($30 when our current 1-year promo expires) plus Netflix/Hulu subscriptions. $90/mo invested for a decade should yield over $15K.

And all last Sunday, the house was filled with the sounds of sports and sportiness. FOR FREE.

UnleashHell

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2015, 03:11:45 PM »
Thats fantastic progress - its not an easy thing to achieve!

One question - I thought that Oil bill was high. Was there anything you could do to address that?

Noodle

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Re: Case Study:It's never too late ..
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2015, 04:09:08 PM »
Aside from the fact that I discovered I barely missed it, I realized that (like a dumbass) I had completely forgotten about over-the-air TV. I even had an antenna from a past experiment that, it turns out, works great in our new location. I now pay $20/mo for internet service ($30 when our current 1-year promo expires) plus Netflix/Hulu subscriptions. $90/mo invested for a decade should yield over $15K.

And all last Sunday, the house was filled with the sounds of sports and sportiness. FOR FREE.

I did the same thing! When I cut the cable (because I was terminally peeved at Comcast, not because of finances), I was researching a lot of different cable replacement options and then suddenly realized...hey, antenna TV still exists! For people without good antenna reception, though, broadcast equivalent cable is pretty cheap and can be a good family compromise. You sometimes have to argue with the cable guy to get it though (they legally have to offer it, but the representatives of course want to upsell you.)