Career Question - colleague was just told F*** YOU in a meeting

[FrugalSaver]

Had this happen to a revered colleague of mine. They (colleague and a peer leader) were in a debate with someone in front of 15 people. Basically just hashing through a problem. Nothing heated when the other person reaches their wit’s end and says “F*** YOU.  I’m not F****** doing this anymore with you!” And storms out of the meeting

Colleague is trying to weigh their options. The person that did this seems well protected by higher ups and is known for flying off the handle Unprofessionally though never this bad. They aren’t seen at very competent in their job by their peers. 

Should they go to HR?

There’s a concern of them somehow losing their job and affecting their mustachian journey.

Is this a terminable offense?

What if they are retaliated against for forcing the company to do Something about it?

Should they say nothing and let them “get away with it”?

Anyone experience this before and have a story to tell that we could learn from?

[reeshau]

There’s a concern of them somehow losing their job and affecting their mustachian journey.

Is this a terminable offense?

Are you asking about the jerk?  Or reporting the jerk?

Swearing at someone isn't a terminable offense.  Taking it a step further, something like "F*** You, you &!^@^$," with some kind of racial or other epithet, very well could be.  I have personally seen much more casual use of racial epithets end in dismissal.  And, I have seen people who used swearing like punctuation get along fine in an organization.

I would at least let HR know, so that they can let this person's supervisor know.  If this organization is at all sizable, I am sure they have some kind of policy on professional, courteous, or other "good" treatment of colleagues.  It may be that this is simply noted in their HR file, but if it is a repeated issue, it could escalate or serve as a basis of proof if they did step over the line the next time, in the way I state above.

Again, if the company is of any size it should also have a non-retaliation policy for earnest reports to HR.  Which isn't to say you might not feel hassled,  (i.e. it's hard to prove, and *you* know you had this episode, even if the other person has no idea, but doesn't like you anyway)  but you would have something you could do about it.

[ROF Expat]

Only your colleague himself/herself can decide how to handle this. 

Personally, I would at least initially try to resolve this directly.  I would tell the colleague directly that I treat my colleagues in an adult and professional manner and that I expect the same from others.  I would probably add that if they had not stormed out in a rage, the discussion would have been over anyway because I would have quietly stood up and walked away because nobody should be expected to put up with abuse.  I would expect this quiet and reasonable conversation to result in an embarrassed apology and a commitment not to repeat the episode.  If it did not, I would take it up the chain until I received that commitment.  My attitude with the company would have been based on the clear assumption that the problem is clearly with the other person's behavior, not my unwillingness to tolerate it.  If I didn't get a commitment to an expectation of common courtesy and professionalism, I would quietly start looking for another place to work.   

[chemistk]

I have no anecdote to offer, just my $0.02.

First, they should review the company's relevant HR policies. Some companies tend to be more conservative and want these kinds of things reported. I'm not saying that the expletive laden colleague should immediately be reported, just that your friend should be aware of what HR might be expecting.

Second, they should be humble and (whether or not they were right in the initial argument) accept that their argument drove this person to feel that way, and that they didn't intend to push their buttons just so. The advantage always lies in taking the high road, even if it means swallowing one's pride.

Third, after the above point is realized, they should talk to the other person personally. "Hey, I'm really sorry our discussion got as heated as it did, I didn't mean to frustrate you like that. If you want to continue our conversation at another time, I'd be glad to do so." In an ideal world the other party would be remorseful about cussing out a colleague in front of a larger group and apologize as well.

Only if the olive branch is rejected should they speak with the other person's manager and/or HR.

[Laura33]

I'm with @ROF Expat:  first offense (with this particular person), your colleague should address it directly with them, i.e., that was unprofessional, and I will not be treated like that.  I would not start with an apology, because someone who is that unprofessional will likely take that as acceptance of fault by the colleague.  But at the same time, there's no need to be antagonistic or confrontational:  just "that's not ok, I like working with you, but I expect you to treat me in a professional manner."

If it happens again, then the colleague should go to HR or his own manager.

[OurTown]

My first boss was a hot-head, bordering on verbally abusive.  I remember a meeting where he was ripping into a female coworker.  At one point he yelled, "are you implying that I'm some kind of idiot?"  I interjected, "no, she is inferring that you are some kind of idiot."  That diffused the argument, LOL.  Note, I was 20 y/o at the time.  I certainly would not do that today.

[Cannot Wait!]

I worked in a jail so not getting told to f%*k off was a rare day, lol.  How much is this bothering your colleague?  15 people observed their behavior; might not need to do anything as this is already looking bad on them. 

[mathlete]

If your colleague feels comfortable confronting the other person directly, and feels like giving them the courtesy, that sounds fine to me.

Other than that, get HR involved. That's what they're for. It's not okay to treat people like that. Especially given that this sounds like it took place in a white collar office environment. Nothing happens in places like this that is so important, or so heated, that this kind of stuff is acceptable.

I wouldn't get too bogged down in the "what-ifs". That's HR's job.

[mathlete]

Very early in my career, there was a "higher up" who would get pretty shouty. I don't think he ever meant any ill will, but his brain moved very fast and he would get frustrated if people weren't keeping up as quickly as he was. For some reason, I never got the shouty treatment, but I could definitely hear it going on sometimes.

One day, a coworker of mine stood up to him and said that his behavior wasn't acceptable. I don't remember if HR got involved, but this guy ended up showing genuine contrition and never shouted again as long as I worked there.

I respect the hell out of the coworker who stood up to him. She made the office a more tranquil place to work. And props for the higher up for doing whatever he did to fix his issue. Maybe this guy is the same way. He's not necessarily a huge asshole. Maybe he just has anger issues that he needs to work through. And maybe he needs to be nudged into doing it by HR.

[ctuser1]

Depends very much on context.

If this exchange took place in a wall street firm, in the trading floor, nobody would bat an eyelid. That is how the culture operates. If you have strong feelings, it's perfectly fine to vent it out right then and there instead of nourishing grudges and then later engaging in backstabbing behavior. What? Your feeling got affected if you are yelled at? Boo hoo!! Sad to be you!!

On the other hand, when I was a management consultant, someone at one of our clients complained to the partner in our team for "harassment" because I followed up 2 hours apart, thrice in a row for a deliverable that was due the day before. As far as I could tell, I was very courteous in my phone calls all the time.

Go figure!!

Frankly, I prefer honest and direct feedback, even if that results in shouting matches sometimes. In the professional world, we are all supposed to be grown-ups.

[DadJokes]

This reminds me of a military to business translation guide:

Instead of "Shut your fucking cock holster," try "Thanks for your insight Greg."
Instead of "Listen here fuckers," try "May I have your attention please?"
Instead of "It's a fucking miracle you haven't accidentally murdered yourself already," try "We need to sit down and discuss my expectations for you."
Instead of "Get your fucking dickbeaters off my shit," try "Can I help you with something Bill?"
Instead of "Stay in your lane fuck face," try "Thanks Joe. We'll keep that in mind."

There are more, and it's hilarious how accurate they are.

[BMP2CPM@gmail.com]

As someone who has been working for large corporations for 17 years, you absolutely go to HR.

Mission statements include respect. Team members have to respect each other.

People with anger control and impulsivity issues need to be reminded about the company’s mission statement. There is a code of conduct at most companies.

These are the basic aspects of being professional.

[Wintergreen78]

I agree that it depends on the culture of the place they work and the size of the company. Before I retired I worked in an office job at a government agency. If somebody cussed at a co-worker that would be reported to HR immediately and would be a really big deal.

That wouldn’t be enough to fire the person immediately, but it would get documented, we would make it crystal clear that it could never happen again, and if it did happen again that person would get fired.

[Kyle Schuant]

Should they go to HR?

No. They should go to the individual concerned and talk to him. "Mate, it's not acceptable to talk to people like that. You need to get your shit together in a sock and wire it tight."

Once it goes to HR everything gets dramatic and drags everyone in, in the ensuing churn who knows who'll still be happily employed at the end of it all.

[Buffaloski Boris]

Unless I think the other person is going to be violent, I would do absolutely nothing were I the recipient of the profanity. Why: (1) there were 15 other people present.  If any of them were offended, they can take it to HR or the supervisor. Even if that doesn’t happen, the rumor mill usually works it’s magic. (2) there would be the question in my mind of whether or not I inadvertently provoked the incident in some fashion. Did I fail to actively listen or read the body language? I’m not going to take repeated abuse, but a one-off would lead me to question my behavior or whether something else is afoot. (3) there is something to be said for being thick-skinned. Not every slight needs to be addressed. There is also something to be said for forgiveness.

[js82]

Should they go to HR?

No. They should go to the individual concerned and talk to him. "Mate, it's not acceptable to talk to people like that. You need to get your shit together in a sock and wire it tight."

Once it goes to HR everything gets dramatic and drags everyone in, in the ensuing churn who knows who'll still be happily employed at the end of it all.

100% agreed with this.  Remember: HR's job isn't to represent your interests, it's to represent the interests of management.  This means avoiding liability and retaining productive employees without spending an excess of money to do so.  This may or may not be aligned with your interests in this situation.

The first thing you should do every time is to try to work out the issue with the other individual one-on-one.  Unless the situation ends with the other individual getting fired or transferred to another organization, you're going to have to work with them going forward, and your best chance of having a productive working relationship with them is to attempt to work things out without involving others.  Worst case, if you come to them with the intention of smoothing things out and they blow up on you again it just adds additional credibility to your story.

If you're going to go to HR, be sure to have a mountain of evidence at the ready, so that no one can question your side of the story.

[mathlete]

Unless I think the other person is going to be violent, I would do absolutely nothing were I the recipient of the profanity. Why: (1) there were 15 other people present.  If any of them were offended, they can take it to HR or the supervisor. Even if that doesn’t happen, the rumor mill usually works it’s magic. (2) there would be the question in my mind of whether or not I inadvertently provoked the incident in some fashion. Did I fail to actively listen or read the body language? I’m not going to take repeated abuse, but a one-off would lead me to question my behavior or whether something else is afoot. (3) there is something to be said for being thick-skinned. Not every slight needs to be addressed. There is also something to be said for forgiveness.

It's hard for me to imagine failure to actively listen or bad body language provoking an otherwise professional and high functioning adult to yell "fuck you" at a coworker. These are the actions of an emotionally immature person who is a liability to themselves and others. I'm not saying they should be fired or written off, but they do need to participate in corrective action.

One person's "thick skin" is another's pushover. Telling people, "fuck you" is not acceptable at work. It's behavior that shouldn't be enabled.

[Duke03]

I work with some very salty individuals..... It's not uncommon to hear the F you and MFer's thrown around quite a bit. Even had to step between a couple of hot heads a time or two. I've seen twice where a person has gone to HR and turn someone in for being ugly or mean ect… HR sent the ugly and mean person to charm school..... The people that went and tattletaled committed career suicide.  Granted they weren't fired, but they never got a promotion and they where marked for life as someone that can't take an ass chewing and will run to HR.  No one in the company wanted them on their team.  FYI I'm not talking about some small mom and pop employer either.  My company has over 60k employees.

[dignam]

I won't offer advice as there's plenty of it already, but I'll share an anecdote.

I've worked with a guy for years who has had some anger streaks.  We are both team leads so we've never reported to each other, but do need to coordinate relatively frequently.  With him, you just never know which version you're getting that day.  Some days he is awesome to work with, other days you can just see him boiling about something and it oozes out of his skin.  I've heard him rip into testers and/or programmers if they somehow trip his trigger on one of his "angry" days.  One time, it was almost warranted because the employee was basically worthless and did nothing all day (she was fired).  However, there was another instance where it was completely blown out of proportion and although there were no profanities, his tone and attitude were inappropriate.  My boss has frequently encouraged me to say something when I see it, so I did tell him basically "Cool your jets and come back to it later, you're not helping."  Surprisingly he didn't direct his anger at me and actually apologized for the way he acted. 

[soccerluvof4]

I was in the transportation industry and this language was used all the time right or wrong. I think if it gets personal is where the line is drawn and where action needs to take place unless the person seemingly always speaks like that. While I am not a fan of the language, in context of the meeting and how its used is how I would make my determination in handling it. Going to a person that does this often if you go them one on one you might get the same response. Let the higher ups know in a right now its not an issue but want you to be made aware that if it continues it might be and let it go for now. Keep a note with date , time and context of it in case you need it to support an issue down the line. Most issues like this are won in how you want to determine that by being organized and detail with the incident.

[CowboyAndIndian]

If this exchange took place in a wall street firm, in the trading floor, nobody would bat an eyelid. That is how the culture operates. If you have strong feelings, it's perfectly fine to vent it out right then and there instead of nourishing grudges and then later engaging in backstabbing behavior. What? Your feeling got affected if you are yelled at? Boo hoo!! Sad to be you!!

+1

My first job on Wall St. was with Morgan Stanley. I had to endure a 5-minute phone call from a trader who showed his creativity by not repeating any curse words in those 5 minutes. He also apologized a couple of hours later when my boss told him I was ready to walk.

On the other hand, I worked with a boss in Goldman who had come up from a blue-collar southside Chicago upbringing. Every third word in his vocabulary was a curse word. That was just his way of talking. As my name suggests, I am of Indian origin. So, he would find something abusive to say about Indians and I would tell him that his ancestors were still in the trees when my ancestors had a major civilization going. All in fun! Never malice on either part.

My suggestion is to tell the offender that that behavior is not acceptable in a  professional environment. I would only report this to HR if he was a multiple offender after having been warned before.

[reeshau]

I won't offer advice as there's plenty of it already, but I'll share an anecdote.

I've worked with a guy for years who has had some anger streaks.  We are both team leads so we've never reported to each other, but do need to coordinate relatively frequently.  With him, you just never know which version you're getting that day.  Some days he is awesome to work with, other days you can just see him boiling about something and it oozes out of his skin.  I've heard him rip into testers and/or programmers if they somehow trip his trigger on one of his "angry" days.  One time, it was almost warranted because the employee was basically worthless and did nothing all day (she was fired).  However, there was another instance where it was completely blown out of proportion and although there were no profanities, his tone and attitude were inappropriate.  My boss has frequently encouraged me to say something when I see it, so I did tell him basically "Cool your jets and come back to it later, you're not helping."  Surprisingly he didn't direct his anger at me and actually apologized for the way he acted.

(a bit of a sidebar here)

This is an interesting example.  If there is any single executive skill I have observed (in abundance or dearth) and thought about, it's the ability to compartmentalize your thoughts:  to not let one situation leak into some other, unrelated situation by way of your attitude.  Think of the video of Obama preparing to give the State of the Union address on the day Osama bin Laden was killed.  That would be a great drop-in line, wouldn't it?  Only...not appropriate.  In a case like this one, this person will repeatedly cause problems for themselves, and will likely eventually commit career suicide, for lack of this skill.

[Chris Pascale]

If I care about this person, I would personally handle this by texting or saying "you can't talk to me like that. Don't do it again."

If I want to handle this in an HR type way, I'd write them an email and say I've been thinking over the meeting on [date] and after careful consideration feel that your language and behavior was completely inappropriate. I would like an apology without qualifications. If you cannot do this, then we will bring in an intermediary. Thank you. When you get the apology, ask HR to file it and keep a copy yourself.

When (not if) it happens again, walk out and file a second complaint with HR and tell your manager you'll be working from home for a couple days.

[simonsez]

Had this happen to a revered colleague of mine. They (colleague and a peer leader) were in a debate with someone in front of 15 people. Basically just hashing through a problem. Nothing heated when the other person reaches their wit’s end and says “F*** YOU.  I’m not F****** doing this anymore with you!” And storms out of the meeting

Colleague is trying to weigh their options. The person that did this seems well protected by higher ups and is known for flying off the handle Unprofessionally though never this bad. They aren’t seen at very competent in their job by their peers. 

Should they go to HR?

There’s a concern of them somehow losing their job and affecting their mustachian journey.

Is this a terminable offense?

What if they are retaliated against for forcing the company to do Something about it?

Should they say nothing and let them “get away with it”?

Anyone experience this before and have a story to tell that we could learn from?

How did your revered colleague take it personally?  Did it make them upset?  I would want more information about the work culture, the incident itself, and the nature of the relationship between the offender and your peer leader.  The offender said they weren't doing "this" anymore - I wonder what that means in a fuller context but sounds like it wasn't nothing that caused them to blurt expletives.  There could be some work communication issues to iron out in addition to the inappropriate exclamation.  i.e. Yes, the person's reaction was not good (possibly terminable depending on the workplace culture) but they were seemingly reacting to something and that something seems like a recurring issue.

I'd be glad this was a meeting with 15 other people.  I think if your revered colleague isn't personally upset and is just more shocked something like that happened in the first place and is able to continue working without being too bothered by the incident, the main damage has already been done to the other person.  If it were me and I wasn't upset and I knew that the offender well enough to approach them at the workplace, I'd allow for some cooling off time but would go say something to let them know that wasn't cool but also level with them and admit some work problems can be challenging, etc. - letting my boss know what I'm doing ahead of time (always allow for possibility of your boss to prevent you from doing something stupid in case you're overlooking or underestimating something).  If I wasn't upset and didn't know the offender too well, I'd probably wait a few hours and send an email cc'ing my boss (but would tell boss ahead of time that I'm doing this).  And then of course if I'm upset, I'm definitely going to my boss and HR and not having any contact with the offender. 

[mathlete]

I work with some very salty individuals..... It's not uncommon to hear the F you and MFer's thrown around quite a bit. Even had to step between a couple of hot heads a time or two. I've seen twice where a person has gone to HR and turn someone in for being ugly or mean ect… HR sent the ugly and mean person to charm school..... The people that went and tattletaled committed career suicide.  Granted they weren't fired, but they never got a promotion and they where marked for life as someone that can't take an ass chewing and will run to HR.  No one in the company wanted them on their team.  FYI I'm not talking about some small mom and pop employer either.  My company has over 60k employees.

This is a shitty culture. I think people defend shitty cultures because they think of it as a "forge", or as being necessary. But it's probably not. Unless you're working in a hospital or something, nothing happens at work in a first world country that is so serious that people need to get their "asses chewed" or called motherfuckers.

I don't think Michael Jordan won six championships because he was salty and punched teammates. I think we created a myth around his competitive spirit to explain the fact that he was just really really good at basketball, and also had some self-control issues.

[PeterParker]

Hard to answer this question and "see the future."

I guess the question you have to ask is --- what am I hoping to accomplish? And what is the best way to accomplish it?


In most regular businesses -- well at my business -- if an angry customer who wants a refund is on the phone yelling F!!! YOU!! which is not super uncommon, the staff is allowed to hang up on them. There are abusive customers that have to be handled but there is a line, and frankly I think that's a good thing.

For a colleague to do that, at most places, is very hostile and definitely FIREABLE depending on their influence, business value, and political sway of course. That said, do you care that much? Or not? Or like the guy? Or want him to be reprimanded/ on notice? These are the questions.

I must say, exactly once at my current place (5 years) -- I dealt with an obnoxious, angry colleague with no social skills. He disliked me personally, because I occasionally challenged (politely) his usually stupid ideas that created mountains of work (he was underqualified).

He once flew off the handle in an email and called me an "idiot" with another colleague on copy. I normally wouldn't care, but with the other colleague there too, I wasn't going to be a doormat. I still thought he was operating in good faith (he wasn't, he was a poison pill who was fired not long after).

SO -- I did the rational advice given here. Just talked to him one on one and said "hey don't call me an idiot -- I will not tolerate personal attacks or disrespect". I wasn't going to go Running to Mommy (HR).

Even though he worked in a different continent, I guess my phrasing (above) maybe was construed as hostile? HE immediately went to HR himself, like the juvenile jackazz he was. And some of the European managers who didn't know me though my response email (above) was impolite -- I still stand by it. But it shows --- maybe you SHOULD go to HR first or else the other guy will and spin things.

EVENTUALLY -- I was lucky because this guy was so socially inept, it was easily to outflank him. He revealed his "craziness" to anyone that got within earshot.

He later would go on to make up lies about me "locking him out" of databases and other things when log files clearly indicated otherwise; ironclad evidence he was too stupid to hide. He was later fired for incompetence. Which is pretty hard to have happen in any European country. Seriously.

A bit of a tangent but a case study. If it's a stand-up guy that made a mistake, sure, talk it out. If he's a nutter and the bridges have been burned, may be best to go to HR rather than a 'heart to heart' that will just aggravate matters.

Frankly when I've dealt with noisy neighbors in the past (2 huge sagas in my life, long story) --- I learned a valuable lesson. Better to just call up the police anonymously for a noise complaint when people are going "Cray Cray" then approach the neighbor and reasonably, respectfully try to hash something out. 9/10 it never really works out.

[DeepEllumStache]

This type of thing can be extremely dependent on the situation and your colleague has some decisions to make based on whether or not they can be happy in the reality of that organization.

Colleague should discuss it with their boss to get feedback. Whether the boss is supportive or brushes off the behavior says something. The person having more political power is a concern which means the colleague should tread carefully. HR might be detrimental to the colleague's career, but necessary if there is a larger threat to safety or if this is part of a larger discriminatory pattern.

Work culture - is this the type of place where cursing is normal? Is this the type of place where cursing at people happens? As posters have pointed out, this is normal in organizations like the military but not in others. I work in a company where this changes by your group - I got written up for saying the word "effin" about a pivot table in one group but in a later role would hear curse words shouted out once a week. But cursing at someone here would not be tolerated. We had an employee say "F@$% you!" to a boss, HR was heavily involved, and it was one of the very few times I've seen people fired. It turned into a scarier issue after the firing with the employee stalking his boss and security getting involved.

Group reaction - was the group offended? Did anyone reach out to the colleague afterwards in support or did everyone brush this off? This says something about the workplace's cultural norms and political power of the individuals involved.

Current relationship with and potential reaction of the person in question - there are people in my organization I would feel comfortable saying "hey that wasn't appropriate, what gives?" and there are people that I am not comfortable saying that to. It's great if they could approach this person directly but your colleague's ability to handle confrontation and the ability of the person who did the cursing to handle the confrontation varies.

Respect - has it happened before and will this happen again? Will this escalate? Is the colleague ok with this happening again? Will this spur disrespect by other peers that may make colleague's ability to get their work done harder?

[WSUCoug1994]

I am not sure there is a right answer here but this is exactly why companies have employee hotline numbers.  Totally confidential and the company must investigate.  With 15 people in the room anyone could have called.

[merula]

I think context matters a lot. I was in a similar meeting (although everyone was on the phone instead of in a room) where similar things were said ("That's bullshit. That's utter bullshit and you know it. You've been condescending and insulting to everyone since this project began and it's fucking ridiculous.").

However, the context was that the person who this diatribe was directed at (call him A) WAS being condescending and insulting, and was making up excuses ("bullshit" was rude but factually accurate) for why he wouldn't meet previously agree-upon deadlines for a shared project, that directly impacted the amount of time the swear-er (call him B) would have to work on B's piece. And when that impact was brought up, A said that B didn't actually need the time that everyone had previously agreed B would need for B's work.

So, yeah, everyone else left this meeting with "yeah B shouldn't have done that, but it's not an unreasonable reaction to A's provocation".

B apologized immediately after he calmed down, to everyone involved by phone or in person, and followed up with an email within an hour.

A reported this to HR and dropped the words "workplace violence", which made this A THING with HR, though nothing came of that as far as I know. ("Workplace violence" seems utterly ridiculous to me given that it was a PHONE MEETING, but apparently HR never can be too careful.)

I would look very closely at the context and the reputations of those involved, as this might be seen differently by others. I know that A saw himself as the victim of that meeting, but he's the only one who did.

[Wrenchturner]

Maybe workplaces should install punching bags so people can get the energy out that's behind the frustration.  Then people wouldn't blow up over paperwork, or whatever it is.

[Cpa Cat]

I'd fire them.

Sorry, but this is a professional office and I expect people to act professionally in it.

Be it client or employee, they would be out.

The beauty about being the boss is that I get to make that call.

If I wasn't allowed to fire them, I suppose I would say "Go cry in the bathroom, if you have to, but you suck it up in front of me in the future, because I expect you to treat me respectfully." If they don't, I'd report them to HR. If HR did nothing, I would quit and start my own firm.

See, I win either way.

[GuitarStv]

That's not acceptable behaviour in an office setting.  You're a professional.  You don't deserve to have a co-worker screaming expletives at you, especially when you're doing your job (discussing a problem).

Personally, I'd directly approach the person who had done the screaming and tell him as much.  Then I'd make a record of what happened (date, time, description of circumstances) and email to myself.  If anything similar ever happened again to me, I'd immediately bring both incidents up with HR.

[Kyle Schuant]

Maybe workplaces should install punching bags so people can get the energy out that's behind the frustration.  Then people wouldn't blow up over paperwork, or whatever it is.

Alternately, people could grow the fuck up.

What I always note is that if they were speaking to an armed uniformed police officer, most of the time they would moderate their tone and behaviour. So they are capable of controlling themselves, they just choose not to.

An adult will choose to control themselves.

[Wrenchturner]

Maybe workplaces should install punching bags so people can get the energy out that's behind the frustration.  Then people wouldn't blow up over paperwork, or whatever it is.

Alternately, people could grow the fuck up.

What I always note is that if they were speaking to an armed uniformed police officer, most of the time they would moderate their tone and behaviour. So they are capable of controlling themselves, they just choose not to.

An adult will choose to control themselves.

Fair enough.  There is pragmatism however in understanding that people don't see "fuck you" in a meeting to mean "I've decided to stop working here".  You'd think they'd learn that lesson prior to ending up in management though.

[GuitarStv]

There is pragmatism however in understanding that people don't see "fuck you" in a meeting to mean "I've decided to stop working here".  You'd think they'd learn that lesson prior to ending up in management though.

In my career, the (very few) people who would tell someone else 'fuck you' in a large meeting feel that they're above regular company rules (for one reason or another) and would be quite perturbed if someone were to say the same to them under any circumstances.  They would probably act to get such a person fired.  So it's not that they didn't learn the lesson . . . it's that they don't think it applies to them.

[Wrenchturner]

There is pragmatism however in understanding that people don't see "fuck you" in a meeting to mean "I've decided to stop working here".  You'd think they'd learn that lesson prior to ending up in management though.

In my career, the (very few) people who would tell someone else 'fuck you' in a large meeting feel that they're above regular company rules (for one reason or another) and would be quite perturbed if someone were to say the same to them under any circumstances.  They would probably act to get such a person fired.  So it's not that they didn't learn the lesson . . . it's that they don't think it applies to them.

You're right, "fuck you" is pretty bad.  The worst, even. 

[Capsu78]

Back in the good old 80"s was in a sales office with 2 "big hitters" who were barking at each other over an account ownership decision that had been made.  Quite disruptive to everybody on the floor and it was turning into a regular daily event.
District sales manager finally stepped in and said "... You 2 go out in the parking lot and settle this with a simple fist fight... If you can't work it out after that, come back and see me and I will make sure you are both unhappy with my decision!"
They took it outside, barked at each other for a while and ended up shaking hands.  Even took the rest of the office mates for a drink after work.

[pecunia]

Have you considered that the guy who said it may feel quite a lot guilty about saying it?  Being noble and reconciling with the person makes a better impression on a lot of us than being the type to turn him in.  HR and their ilk love to make mountains out of molehills and perhaps go so far as to ruin the person's life.  Take the high road.  Those folks are generally the real bastards not the poor shmoe who lost his temper.

[Kyle Schuant]

Fair enough.  There is pragmatism however in understanding that people don't see "fuck you" in a meeting to mean "I've decided to stop working here".  You'd think they'd learn that lesson prior to ending up in management though.

If you want pragmatic, then you must understand that some people will do what they can get away with, and for them the whole point of joining management is so they can get away with more shit.

In surveys of white collar workplaces, the average person spends 2.5hr a day on actual work, and the rest faffing about; among the rest is half an hour a day looking for another job. There are reasons that so many people are looking to get out of there. I'm sure that after that meeting, more than one of those fifteen people sat down at their computer and started looking for vacancies.

This then leaves the workplace dominated by people who put up with abuse. Which means more abuse happens. And a generally unhappy workplace, to say the least. Which is why I suggested talking to the guy in private one on one. You have to stop this sort of thing when it starts.

[pecunia]

- SNIP -

This then leaves the workplace dominated by people who put up with abuse. Which means more abuse happens. And a generally unhappy workplace, to say the least. Which is why I suggested talking to the guy in private one on one. You have to stop this sort of thing when it starts.

YES!

[Kyle Schuant]

Of course, there may be a reason I'm self-employed.

[FrugalSaver]

How do
Retaliation laws come intomplay in a situation like this?

Should the colleague go to EEOC?  If they do, is EEOC obligated to report to their company that they went?

[DeepEllumStache]

The purpose of the EEOC is to enforce federal discrimination laws. From their website:

The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) is responsible for enforcing federal laws that make it illegal to discriminate against a job applicant or an employee because of the person's race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy, gender identity, and sexual orientation), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information. It is also illegal to discriminate against a person because the person complained about discrimination, filed a charge of discrimination, or participated in an employment discrimination investigation or lawsuit.

Most employers with at least 15 employees are covered by EEOC laws (20 employees in age discrimination cases). Most labor unions and employment agencies are also covered.

The laws apply to all types of work situations, including hiring, firing, promotions, harassment, training, wages, and benefits.

[Michael in ABQ]

This reminds me of a military to business translation guide:

Instead of "Shut your fucking cock holster," try "Thanks for your insight Greg."
Instead of "Listen here fuckers," try "May I have your attention please?"
Instead of "It's a fucking miracle you haven't accidentally murdered yourself already," try "We need to sit down and discuss my expectations for you."
Instead of "Get your fucking dickbeaters off my shit," try "Can I help you with something Bill?"
Instead of "Stay in your lane fuck face," try "Thanks Joe. We'll keep that in mind."

There are more, and it's hilarious how accurate they are.

I'm in the infantry so a few of those were pretty much direct quotes that I've heard before. In general most people are not that bad, but there's definitely some Sergeant's that talk like that on a common basis.

[SKL-HOU]

I would have just said “F... You” back to him and be done with it.

[LoanShark]

Sticks and stones as the saying goes ...

[ncornilsen]

I was hired at this company in 2009. At that time, we had a weekly meeting with the general manager, where we'd get torn up over our projects. "You totally F***ED our thru-put because this 48 hour 24/7 operation with 400 moving parts, unknown piping conditions under concrete with an undocumented larger chunk of concrete under it took 30 minutes longer than you said!" (and ironically: "How dare you sandbag and tell us it would take 8 hours when it only took 6????!!!"  I've been called in the middle of the night and been shouted at for 5 minutes about something that really didn't matter... and so on. The manager would tell us "Its the marine experience."
I heard the CEO shouting some pretty crazy stuff quite often, one that I'll always remember is "The F****in CHINESE are GOING TO INVADE AND KILL YOUR WHOLE F***in FAMILY UNLESS YOU GET THESE 5 GRINDING STATIONS RUNNING IN 24 HOURS... WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?"  (I replied "I'd Learn Mandarin." and walked out of the meeting. I was neutral about the prospect of being fired that day, and it was the same day I began researching how to get F-U money and found this place! the only reason I survived is he thought it was funny, and I followed up with him later.)

For some reason around 2014, the company decided it no longer wanted to be that way. (Except THE CEO. The Chinese invasion chesnut is regularly bandied about, but he recently added something about throwing people in a 20ft deep well with a 10ft rope. He saves it for upper management now, and hasn't been heard screaming at anyone in years).

We've had about 85% staff turnover since then. I'm the only person in my department who was around for those days. People think I'm salty. If they only knew.

Anyway, I second those who say to let it go and escalate if it becomes a pattern.

[DeniseNJ]

If someone spoke to me that way I swear I would LAUGH OUT LOUD!  Storming out of a meeting like a toddler and leaving everyone in the meeting staring at each other would leave me really trying not to burst out laughing.  He already made a fool of himself in front of 15 people.  Really, what else is left to say? 

I may bring it up if it happened in private, though not the first time.  I'd give him a pass the first time.  The second time I'd address it directly.

But public displays of temper and tantrum allow me to witness someone else's humiliation while maintaining my own composure and self-respect.  I win!

[DaMa]

I was hired at this company in 2009. At that time, we had a weekly meeting with the general manager, where we'd get torn up over our projects. "You totally F***ED our thru-put because this 48 hour 24/7 operation with 400 moving parts, unknown piping conditions under concrete with an undocumented larger chunk of concrete under it took 30 minutes longer than you said!" (and ironically: "How dare you sandbag and tell us it would take 8 hours when it only took 6????!!!"  I've been called in the middle of the night and been shouted at for 5 minutes about something that really didn't matter... and so on. The manager would tell us "Its the marine experience."
I heard the CEO shouting some pretty crazy stuff quite often, one that I'll always remember is "The F****in CHINESE are GOING TO INVADE AND KILL YOUR WHOLE F***in FAMILY UNLESS YOU GET THESE 5 GRINDING STATIONS RUNNING IN 24 HOURS... WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?"  (I replied "I'd Learn Mandarin." and walked out of the meeting. I was neutral about the prospect of being fired that day, and it was the same day I began researching how to get F-U money and found this place! the only reason I survived is he thought it was funny, and I followed up with him later.)

For some reason around 2014, the company decided it no longer wanted to be that way. (Except THE CEO. The Chinese invasion chesnut is regularly bandied about, but he recently added something about throwing people in a 20ft deep well with a 10ft rope. He saves it for upper management now, and hasn't been heard screaming at anyone in years).

We've had about 85% staff turnover since then. I'm the only person in my department who was around for those days. People think I'm salty. If they only knew.

Anyway, I second those who say to let it go and escalate if it becomes a pattern.

I would guess that around 2014 the company paid out a significant amount of money in a lawsuit brought by an employee.

[Seadog]

Why do people put *s in swear words? I'm honestly curious. We all know what you mean, we've all seen and most likely said the words before and we are all big boys and girls who shouldn't break into hysterics at seeing the whole word written out. Even when not using it directly, but rather in someone else's quote? I just don't get it. Even worse is if it's not a quote. Either use the word in all it's glory, or choose a different one. Stars are dishonest and disengenuous. It's like you want the benefit of the forceful impact of a swear word, but want a technical out in case anyone accuses you of saying bad words.

Would that shit fly verbally? "No, I didn't say "fuck you". I said "fu*K you". The star is silent.   

In a related point, apparently people who swear are more honest: https://globalnews.ca/news/3160474/people-who-swear-are-reportedly-more-honest-than-those-who-dont-study/

To the actual point, I would have probably just swore at him right back. If that's the game he wants to play, I'll agree and amplify. Like the military, the oil and gas industry is probably 90% guys, and a mere "fuck you" err sorry "F*** Y**" wouldn't even have warranted a second glance. Almost daily you'd hear remarks about your ethnicity, sexual orientation, prowess in bed, and comments about the size of your phallus, or lack of it entirely. At the same time there are a thousand and one ways to die in those sorts of jobs, so the same folks are routinely holding your life in their hands.  I guess this confirms my theory that my life in cubicle hell would neither be a long or fruitful one having offended 2/3rds the staff by the first coffee break.