Author Topic: Car salespeople... Jesus.  (Read 13115 times)

onlykelsey

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2019, 12:39:52 PM »
Had a similar miserable experience the last time I was on a dealer's lot. 
We were there for a recall, and had been thinking of replacing one of our cars so we decided to look at a few.  For perspective I'm youngish (early 30s) quite tall and athletic, and I was there with my wife.
We wanted to look at the Fit and Vibe.  Right off the bat the guy tries to steer us to an SUV.  Nope, we don't need a big car, we want good fuel economy.  "Oh, so this is for your wife!" he stats in.  No.  Men can drive smaller cars just fine.  He then spends much of hte last 15 minutes alternatively trying to male-bond with me and then taking digs at my masculinity.  Within a 2 minute period he first tried to get me to comment on the receptionist and then asked if my wife wore the pants in the house. Kept trying to steer me to financing - no thank you.  At one point he brought up that they could give me up to $1,000 cash, and "we wouldn't even have to tell your wife! - you could just have it i your pocket and she'd be none the wiser".  um, what??

Test drove a Vibe - 30 seconds after pulling away from the dealership we went up a steep hill and water started to leak from the headliner.  "Oh, that's just because the car hasn't been driven in a couple weeks".  No, modern cars shouldn't leak, regardless of recent rains or sitting for a while.  Then we wanted to test-drive a Fit but he said he 'wouldn't do that to me, you won't fit."  Yet someone in my carpool has a Fit, and I 'fit" just fine.  Again with the SUVs.  Financing could make it cost the same amount as the Fit (over 5 years instead of 3). I pointed that out and he tried to make it sound like I was an idiot - 'it's not the price of the car, it's what your monthly payments are, because that's what you are going to pay each month!"  Siad he might even be able to 'arrange with financing' to make my monthly payment slightly less than for a Fit, but refused to say what the price would be.   I told him I  wasn't' going to buy a car that got less than 30mpg highway, and I definitely wasn't going to buy one where he wouldn't tell me the purchase price. 

THat's when the "hey buddy, I'm trying to help YOu out here" started.  Again with the "it's the monthly payment that matters because you're always going to have one'.  Um, what?  I told him I hadn't had a carpayment in 10 years, and he said "oh, your parents buy you that car then?'  No.

About then our car was ready so we packed up and left.  He acted put off/mad that we had 'wasted his time', which was a joke because it was a weekday and the salesmen outnumbered the customers. Funny thing was, we would have considered actually buying a Fit, but despite asking multiple times he never let us test-drive one (and they had IIRC about four different ones on the lot). Worked out fort eh best, as a few months later a relative sold us their gently used Civic for a song - probably the best deal on a well-kept, salt free car we could have posisbly gotten.
I got the feeling the salesman was just really annoyed that his normal routine of questioning my masculinity coupled with chauvenistic-bonding didn't work.

Jesus. I have to buy a car soon.  I didn't know it would be this bad.

mm1970

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2019, 01:10:39 PM »
For you good ones, I'm sorry you still have a-holes who make you look bad.

I roll in, in my 06 Matrix, so off the bat the fella I spoke with on the phone is giving me "this broke ass guy" vibe.  I love this kinda shit (ER'd with a $2MM investment portfolio).  He then starts a soft I'll be your buddy routine, but asked me three times if I had any kids, and finally I politely said c'mon man.  Then he starts with the "lets get you financed" on the test drive, where I said not interested, thanks. 

We go inside, and he asks again about me seeing the finance guy, and get the credit ball rolling.  Again, I said no, don't ask again, lets talk an OTD price.  Oh yeeeeeah, before we do that, let me see your drivers license.  I say you don't need to see it (wants it to do a soft credit pull, which I strictly did not authorize), and he replies "just need it to make getting your contact info easier".  I gave him nothing, and he never did get any contact info.

Then he starts the old, basically I wasted all of his time with you routine, became pouty, and terse.  I said "how about that out the door price?  He scribbles down the number...  Hmm I think to myself, the car price was $1000 higher than the ad price I saw online.  Now I was just playing with him.  I said, naw, that won't work, so he now uses the correct listing price, and I still said naw, and start to walk out.  Get outside and he starts the tired act of "my boss is gonna ask why I spent three hours with you and could not sell you a car".  I said "No problem, lets go in, point me to your boss and I'll explain why".  Finally I get the "what's it gonna take routine", so he drops the price another $1000 and asks "will you accept this VERBAL offer?"  Good Lord, I just smile and walk away.  Also should add the "We Owe's" I brought up for warped rotors, and a slight shimmy would be verbal as well.  I must be missing a turnip truck.

Man, this dude was pathetic, a multiple liar and sleazeball...  Shame too, as the car was a super cherry 2017 Camry XLE, 20k miles, and I bet I could have gotten it in the $16's.  He lied again when he said "we just got this in"...  If you mean almost two months ago (forever in car sales).  Also lied earlier on another car, where he said the price was $6000, then magically said $12,000???  I have worked at three dealerships in the service area, and this guy was a real jackhole.  Oh well, keep the stereotype alive and well.
This makes me smile for so many reasons.

I also own a 2006 Matrix.  Bought new.  The purchase of it was pretty fun, for us anyway.  I mean, it wasn't fun.  We kind of spontaneously decided to replace the POS Saturn that we'd just dropped off at the dealer because it kept dying.

The hard sell was amazing - we were 40 miles from home, shopping with a 4 mo old baby.  Many stops to nurse, and to go to lunch.  While we were at lunch we found a computer at Best Buy hooked up to the internet, downloaded a report from Consumer reports on the price of a Matrix.

Oh, they got us around and around about financing, and out the door price, and then would come back with a higher price.  Talked about monthly payment, and I said "I have never in my life spent more than $10,500 on a car, and I care about the actual out-the-door price." They also wanted to roll in the trade in, but I insisted on doing that separately.  (Honestly, the POS Saturn blue book was $800.  They gave us $450 and that was being generous.)  I finally got up (at 4 pm) and said "look, we are wasting each other's time.  I'm tired, the baby's tired, the husband is tired.  Bye."

Magically met our price.  "How will you be paying?"  Here's a check.

The original sales guy who met us in the lot and passed us on quickly to his boss... snuck up to us after they tossed us the keys with a "bye" (no photo ops for us!) and said "Man, they are pissed.  I've never seen them that pissed."

Well then.  I did my job.  And...still driving that Matrix.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 01:26:00 PM by mm1970 »

nereo

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2019, 01:11:41 PM »

Jesus. I have to buy a car soon.  I didn't know it would be this bad.
Go private party.  Negotiate fairly with the seller and take it together to a 3rd party mechanic to have it looked over.  The seller gets more than s/he would as a trade in, you save compared to a dealership and the independent mechanic even gets some business.  EVeryone leaves happy.

Buying a car does not have to be a high-pressure situation.

kendallf

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2019, 01:12:56 PM »
Jesus. I have to buy a car soon.  I didn't know it would be this bad.

You're hearing everyone's memorable and worst experiences.  Avoid dealers if possible, buy from an owner through Craigslist or CarGurus.  I go to dealers as a last resort. 

One other resource I'd recommend if you're car savvy and  is dealing with small dealers who basically go to auctions and buy cars and resell.  Find someone who has no showroom (maybe a shop in an office park somewhere) and by preference, somebody who specializes in the type of car you want.  These are becoming more and more common where I live, at least. 

I bought my last three cars this way, as these guys tend to have low overhead and had the cars I wanted at a good price. I finance these because my credit union has been offering 1.99% rates, so I go there beforehand and get a preapproved check.  Only one of those deals had anything resembling haggling, and that was only because the condition of the car differed significantly from the presentation in the online ad. 

EnjoyIt

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2019, 03:05:44 PM »
My last two car purchases were CPO, were simple and easy. After finding the car I want, I do all negotiating over the phone and refuse to set foot in the place until I have a firm out the door price. I tell them not to waste my time if the car is not as described because I will walk immediately if there are issues.

I show up, remove every piece of weather stripping around doors and trunk to check for repairs. I remove plastic covers from engine bay to look for leaks or recent newish looking parts. I try and get a decent look underneath as well.  I test drive the car and if everything fits I write a check and leave. I have never been hassled or given extras added in later because I have already negotiated my out the door price with tax, registration, fees, whatever before I set foot in the place.


nereo

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2019, 03:24:37 PM »
I don't get the whole game they want to play?   Just give your best price and get the vehicle sold and out the door so you can move on to the next one.   They could also easily come to my home or place of business and pick up my trade in for an inspection, rather than making me bring it back in there.   Just about anything else you want to buy, the price is out in the open and you can make a purchase in very short order.

I hate this crap too.  They always draw the whole process out and never give you a straight answer about anything.  Hell, the last time I went to a dealership, I couldn't get a number out of them for TWO HOURS.  The only way I could get them to tell me how much the car cost was by walking out, and by then I was pissed enough that I didn't want to deal with them anymore.

It's psychology - specifically the 'sunk cost' premise.  Most people will view two hours spent at a particular dealership as time invested, and therefore it will be wasted if they don't wind up buying a car.  So they are willing to capitulate on the best price somewhat.  Dealerships know this, so they intentionally drag out the process (and it helps if you can't leave, like taking your driver's license "to photocopy it real quick" in preparation for a test drive).  Then they try to frame price in terms of monthly payments, so going from $255 to $268 doesn't sound like much, but they've upped the price by $800 if they're talking about a 5 month lease (which you suddenly realize if you try to pay it all off in cash).

So while a person might consider a Saturday afternoon 'wasted' shopping for a car to be worth $200 to them, they'll manage to agree to pay $800 more for a car just not to have 'lost' that investment by walking away.  The longer they can keep you on the lot, the better their chances of you paying more for the vehicle.

That’s insane. I can’t imagine that I’d ever just be like “okay sure, I’ll pay more since you’ve wasted so much of my time”. I guess it works though if they keep doing it.

Are most cars bought at dealerships purchased by idiots?
Never underestimate the power of behavioral psychology on getting people to spend money. 
It's not that people are idiots - it's that we(as humans) have a hard time walking away with 'nothing to show for it'. 
 

Lemonhead

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2019, 03:37:12 PM »
I wasn't there, this is DH's story.  We were replacing car for teenage DS (DS paid part) and he decided a black Civic would be OK.  Finally found one at a Honda dealer 30 minutes from home in good enough condition and low enough price.  They agreed on price and DH asked if they took credit cards.  Why yes, of course they did.  Except when the paperwork was done and it was time to pay they backpedaled and said credit cards only up to $3k or so and then charge 1.5% over that.  DH couldn't get cashiers check and be back for several days, but could have done it while they were doing the paperwork.  Since they didn't like that idea the full $7k was charged on AmEx without extra fees and we earned the 1% cash back.  Fairly new card with 0% on purchases too so we didn't pay till that was almost ending. 

Just Joe

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2019, 04:01:06 PM »
Not very Mustachian but I trade trucks every 3-4 years, always get a new one and always pay cash, typically a 4x4, four door.

Why?  I mean, I appreciate people like you cycling trucks into the used market, but... unless you're putting insane miles on the truck annually, I don't understand why you'd do that.  A 10 year old truck can do just about as much as a brand new one, except the 10 year old one probably has a few dents and dings that mean you don't worry about getting it dirty or tossing rocks in it.

I've got a 22 year old truck, have zero interest in replacing it.

I hate the whole car buying process too (except at CarMax last time) so we keep our cars 15-20 years. ;)
Boring to my car changing friends and family but our cars have been quite trouble free.

six-car-habit

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2019, 09:08:07 PM »


 " WTF??!!

I'd call the police myself.  And the news media.  And the BBB.  I definitely would have started recording the conversation within 10 minutes of that whole insanity-show. "

   Yeah, crazy. I'm glad i stayed calm. This was 8+ years ago and didn't have a cell phone to record anything.  Multi Million Dollar dealer that had recently refurbished the buildings. I wonder if i had driven there in the new rig  - maybe they would have tried to block it in with dealer stock??

     I called the manufacurer directly at their "help line" and got a sympathetic ear and her boss , and another Corporate #, but either they had no horsepower or followthru  and/or  not sure how I'd know if they dropped a "reprimand" on the GenMgr or his Floor guy... I figure they already had sold or primped up my old rig for resale on their used lot within that short time, so thats why they wouldn't entertain, my more than fair offer to let them rescind.

 Anyhow, happy ending is - I know i got a good rig, that has taken us camping, daily driving many times, and lots of good places, and has been reliable. Worked extra overtime when it was available and payed it off relatively quickly.  I'll be keeping it for a long time...

 

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2019, 03:11:23 AM »
Wow, some awful stories here.  I know those really happen -- my elderly dad has a real doozy of a story that I can't do justice to (salesguy actually grabbed him by the arm to stop him when he stood up to leave, ugly scene ensued).  Makes my blood boil every time he tells that story. 

Anyhoo, personally I've bought 11 cars in my life and I enjoy doing it.  Not sure why, but I've never had a bad experience.  I've done it every which way that exists: big dealership, small dealership, private party, small reseller, online.  I always pay cash, I'm usually buying used, and I usually don't trade in.   

Absolute smoothest way to buy a car IMO is the very small local dealer/reseller that @kendallf mentioned above.  There are quite a few of those around here, and they have their shit together.  No hard sell tactics, easy peasy.  Either that or private seller on Craigslist.  Big dealerships are the worst.   

bwall

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2019, 04:42:42 AM »
You are agreeing to the price ahead of time for a car, as advertised, and because you have researched it through Kelly Blue Book, Edmunds, private sale listings, etc. you know it is a good price.  You now have a price in writing ahead of time and avoid all the hustle games.  Then you go in person and confirm that the car is as stated, including having your mechanic check it (at your expense) if you choose.  If it doesn't match as advertised then you don't pay and go away.  This is not like Amazon where you have to pay ahead to be able to see it. 

This works with long distance purchases as well.  Someone I know really wanted a very specific year and model of car.  They found one in Kentucky and had it shipped to the NW by a car broker with the sales price agreed to ahead of time.  Their potential loss was $500 to cover the shipping commitment but if they found the car to be not as advertised they did not have to follow through and buy it.  They did buy it and are very pleased with being able to scour the nation for this very specific wish.   

Salesmen can be assholes and there are so many that are not professional salespeople in it for the long term.  You can avoid them.  (They may have to check your credit rating to accept a check for full price though, don't be surprised if they ask for something like that to verify that you are not scamming them.  Perhaps actual cash money avoids that.)     

Nailed it.

This is the way to buy a car in the 21st century. I've purchased dozens of cars like this without ever leaving my house. The salesperson can't waste your time because you can hang up the phone very quickly.

To do otherwise is an exercise in frustration.

Sugaree

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2019, 06:36:23 AM »
I don't get the whole game they want to play?   Just give your best price and get the vehicle sold and out the door so you can move on to the next one.   They could also easily come to my home or place of business and pick up my trade in for an inspection, rather than making me bring it back in there.   Just about anything else you want to buy, the price is out in the open and you can make a purchase in very short order.

I hate this crap too.  They always draw the whole process out and never give you a straight answer about anything.  Hell, the last time I went to a dealership, I couldn't get a number out of them for TWO HOURS.  The only way I could get them to tell me how much the car cost was by walking out, and by then I was pissed enough that I didn't want to deal with them anymore.

It's psychology - specifically the 'sunk cost' premise.  Most people will view two hours spent at a particular dealership as time invested, and therefore it will be wasted if they don't wind up buying a car.  So they are willing to capitulate on the best price somewhat.  Dealerships know this, so they intentionally drag out the process (and it helps if you can't leave, like taking your driver's license "to photocopy it real quick" in preparation for a test drive).  Then they try to frame price in terms of monthly payments, so going from $255 to $268 doesn't sound like much, but they've upped the price by $800 if they're talking about a 5 month lease (which you suddenly realize if you try to pay it all off in cash).

So while a person might consider a Saturday afternoon 'wasted' shopping for a car to be worth $200 to them, they'll manage to agree to pay $800 more for a car just not to have 'lost' that investment by walking away.  The longer they can keep you on the lot, the better their chances of you paying more for the vehicle.

LOL.  I had some guy try that on me once.  I thought I was being pretty clear when I called him up and said I want this vehicle with these options in this color.  He finds two at other dealers and has me come in on a Saturday to do the paperwork, wastes my time, tries to talk me out of putting 50+% down on it (I really, really wanted to buy it outright, but needed a bigger car because kid and hadn't quite saved up enough for it), tries to sell me something on his lot (understandable) and doesn't understand why I don't want it.  Finally gets all the paperwork done, all the while asking me if I'm "really sure" this is what I want them to bring in because they don't want one sitting on their lot for months (BS, someone else tried to buy it in the 2 hours between the time it was delivered and the time I was able to make it to the dealer to pick it up...what can I say...she's pretty).  Five years later when my husband totaled her, he still hadn't learned his lesson when he tried to sell me a new car when I'm telling him I want exactly what I had.

Just Joe

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2019, 06:37:44 AM »
Wow, some awful stories here.  I know those really happen -- my elderly dad has a real doozy of a story that I can't do justice to (salesguy actually grabbed him by the arm to stop him when he stood up to leave, ugly scene ensued).  Makes my blood boil every time he tells that story. 

Anyhoo, personally I've bought 11 cars in my life and I enjoy doing it.  Not sure why, but I've never had a bad experience.  I've done it every which way that exists: big dealership, small dealership, private party, small reseller, online.  I always pay cash, I'm usually buying used, and I usually don't trade in.   

Absolute smoothest way to buy a car IMO is the very small local dealer/reseller that @kendallf mentioned above.  There are quite a few of those around here, and they have their shit together.  No hard sell tactics, easy peasy.  Either that or private seller on Craigslist.  Big dealerships are the worst.

I'll second the small dealerships. I'll also second not having a trade in. Dealers wanted to give us $1500 for our old car 20 years ago when we bought our only new car. With no work at all we sold that car for a bit over $3K which was alot of money to us at that time.

There are too many places a dealership can hide markups in the typical sale. All reasons I'd like to be able to buy a car straight out the factory door as mentioned up thread. Europeans can do that but we can't here in the "Land of the Free". Tesla is as close as we can get.

When I bought our last car I could not get the dealers to work with me over the internet. All of them gave me the "come on in and we'll see what we can do". I suppose next time I'll try harder to make sure I'm communicating with the sales manager and not just some random sales person.

We didn't have that brand in our town so I didn't want to drive 100+ miles to play games for a CPO car. In the end CarMax sold us what we wanted for about $5K less than the dealers starting price. Even if I halved the price distance between the two, I would have been paying more.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 08:39:00 AM by Just Joe »

Holyoak

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #63 on: February 26, 2019, 07:25:42 AM »
The small local dealers are good as has been mentioned, just make sure their main business doesn't specialize in bad credit, "we'll get you financed type" buy here-pay here clients...  They can be plenty sleazy, hard sell, pushing really junky auction bondo queens, rebuilt titles, etc.  I know many of us are very savvy folks, so this advice most likely need not apply.  I did know a fella who ran a great lot, where he would get nice lease returns, and some ex-rental cars all less than three years old, many still with some factory warranty.

He specialized mostly in Nissan, so that was about the only limitation compared to places like Carmax, huge dealers, etc.  He was very chill, and it was actually a nice experience to be on his lot w/o the typical A-holes you will deal with.  Going directly to rental agency sales is another option to purchase their late model vehicles, usually with around 30k miles, some warranty left, and many times service records.

Unfortunately, I have never test driven the vehicles I am interested in, know anyone with them to take a peek, or any rental agencies with them to rent and try out...  Looks as if I will have to go the the dealership, in order to look over and test drive the vehicles I am interested in. YUCK.

Sugaree

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #64 on: February 26, 2019, 07:29:49 AM »


 " WTF??!!

I'd call the police myself.  And the news media.  And the BBB.  I definitely would have started recording the conversation within 10 minutes of that whole insanity-show. "

   Yeah, crazy. I'm glad i stayed calm. This was 8+ years ago and didn't have a cell phone to record anything.  Multi Million Dollar dealer that had recently refurbished the buildings. I wonder if i had driven there in the new rig  - maybe they would have tried to block it in with dealer stock??

     I called the manufacurer directly at their "help line" and got a sympathetic ear and her boss , and another Corporate #, but either they had no horsepower or followthru  and/or  not sure how I'd know if they dropped a "reprimand" on the GenMgr or his Floor guy... I figure they already had sold or primped up my old rig for resale on their used lot within that short time, so thats why they wouldn't entertain, my more than fair offer to let them rescind.

 Anyhow, happy ending is - I know i got a good rig, that has taken us camping, daily driving many times, and lots of good places, and has been reliable. Worked extra overtime when it was available and payed it off relatively quickly.  I'll be keeping it for a long time...

 

It's called a yo-yo deal and it happens more often than you'd think.  Usually because the paperwork gets signed on a weekend and then they can't find a bank willing to finance the deal at the given terms.  And it's pretty likely that your trade-in is already gone.  You're lucky that you had finalized paperwork.  A lot of times the paperwork states it's "pending approval."

Just Joe

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #65 on: February 26, 2019, 08:53:02 AM »
All the more reason to do the financing through your bank or credit union. Then the whole negotiation can be about the price of the car, not the financing terms or the trade-in. It eliminates a few places the dealership has to hide markups. They may not like it of course... ;)

Our last purchase: call our credit union, do the financing app over the phone with loan officer who was able to copy and paste much of our info straight out of our bank account info. Approved up to some amount (more than we would ever spend on a car), go drive the car, bring back the specifics for the loan paperwork - sign here. Then they handed us the cashier's check to complete the purchase with. Loan was for three years. We paid it off sooner. Peace of mind in case we had an episode of sickness or unemployment - its our car and we can rely on it being there to use for the next 15+ years.

I kept waiting for the gotcha details at the bank or car seller but everything happened so smoothly.

I will never put up with the classic dealer experience again as detailed in this thread. Bought one new car and it was just as terrible as other people have described here.

Terrible until I wised up and put myself in control (final dealership) bringing my own financing.

RWD

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2019, 09:45:20 AM »
what can I say...she's pretty
What kind of car was this?

I've found trying to get a car with a specific set of options/color is really difficult at most dealerships. Our Subaru dealer refused to order a BRZ for me and said I could either wait for luck of the draw (them to get the right color in stock) or buy the one that was already on their lot. I ended up buying the one on their lot after they discounted the cost of all the options I didn't want. Volkswagen actually let us order a car but when it arrived it had additional options we did not ask for and the base price was higher than we had [presumably] agreed on via e-mail. We walked.

Porsche is really good about letting you custom order a car but their options are really expensive which makes it quite difficult to justify buying new. We ended up finding a nice used one at a dealership a couple states away with pretty much all the options we wanted at a significant discount (~$32k depreciation), did all the negotiations via e-mail/phone, completed paperwork via mail, and they shipped us the car. Very easy process.

Sugaree

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #67 on: February 26, 2019, 10:08:14 AM »
what can I say...she's pretty
What kind of car was this?

I've found trying to get a car with a specific set of options/color is really difficult at most dealerships. Our Subaru dealer refused to order a BRZ for me and said I could either wait for luck of the draw (them to get the right color in stock) or buy the one that was already on their lot. I ended up buying the one on their lot after they discounted the cost of all the options I didn't want. Volkswagen actually let us order a car but when it arrived it had additional options we did not ask for and the base price was higher than we had [presumably] agreed on via e-mail. We walked.

Porsche is really good about letting you custom order a car but their options are really expensive which makes it quite difficult to justify buying new. We ended up finding a nice used one at a dealership a couple states away with pretty much all the options we wanted at a significant discount (~$32k depreciation), did all the negotiations via e-mail/phone, completed paperwork via mail, and they shipped us the car. Very easy process.



Like this, but with some chrome touches that I didn't love at first, but grew on me.  They only made that color for like 6 months.  Even new, the Jeep dealer was only able to find 2 within 750 miles that he could do a dealer trade with.  The second time around was even worse.  Finally found one at Carmax.  Same year, same color, "upgraded" trim package, 70k fewer miles.

It's totally not a Mustachian car, but I love her and I make sacrifices in other places to make it work.  I strongly believe in buying exactly what I want and driving it for 10 or 12 years.

six-car-habit

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #68 on: February 26, 2019, 11:22:16 AM »
 **  It's called a yo-yo deal and it happens more often than you'd think.  Usually because the paperwork gets signed on a weekend and then they can't find a bank willing to finance the deal at the given terms.  And it's pretty likely that your trade-in is already gone.  You're lucky that you had finalized paperwork.  A lot of times the paperwork states it's "pending approval." **

  I thought about trying to contact the Actual Owner of the Naughty dealership, but on reflection , figured although he would say nice and apologetic things to me, his loyalty would be to the GenMgr as I imagine the owner hired him.

     I had "Special Ordered" my trade-in vehicle of that previous story - from same manufacturer 8 years prior [ but Different dealership ]  - and it was very smooth, positive, experience.
 Put down $2K , went thru the exact options i wanted, no more no less, Colors, engine, differential, etc. at Edmunds invoice plus $600.  This was back in 2003 when invoice pricing was not so prevalent.  It helped that i knew all the codes [ from Edmunds]  for each option i wanted. Had financing for the balance lined up already thru credit union. Waited i think 6 weeks or less.  Dealeership called me the day it arrived. Saw it come off the transporter, Drove it home an hour or less later. 

 On the Subaru we have it was special ordered, although like RWD's experience they first tried to push us to a similar XT turboed version but in the wrong color they had on the lot. But wife was firm on color as it was 1-2yr offering, and the bodystyle was changing afterr that model year. There was a similar one at another dealer, right color but missiing options [ turbo gage, and rear hatch spoiler,etc  ] - they offered to "dealer swap" for and get that one and have their lot+mechanic guys put on the options, but i said no, ,i want the guys at the factory who do this all day and have the templates to install them. { didn't need leaky hatch/ leaky vacuum in the future}     Got a fair deal on her trade-in, which we brought back with normal accumulated miles when the Subaru arrived. Left a good deposit. Waited about 6 weeks. Had financing lined up through credit-union/ bank first, and declined to hear their financing offers pretty much - I think this is key to a good experience - a shorter dealer experience timewise - and one with less pitfalls.

 On VW - Tried to special order a vehicle, offered a sizeable deposit. - they said yes, you [ +we dealership XZX ] can try, but basically you will ask for say 4 major options or packages, in an certain color + drivetrain. What arrives will have the color and drivetrain you wanted and 3 of the 4 requested options, no telling which 3....and "i'm telling you before we start, it will be at full MSRP, or the owner won't approve it" . And the sales mgr that day said he could only think of one special order they had done in the last 2 or so years. Which was a Touraeg , with the v-10  diesel, and a whole lot of options at full boat pricing. I wasn't willing to pay MSRP so ended that purchase attempt.

 So 2 good new car buying dealer stories - because we were firm on terms, 1 bad story, and 1 neutral cause there was no actual sale- just an inquiry.
 

Just Joe

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #69 on: February 26, 2019, 01:41:21 PM »


I'd love to have a Jeep Wrangler. Beware - if you didn't know this - it has a one star crash test rating with Euro NCAP crash tests. Since physics are the same on both sides of the ocean...

I looked for the NHTSA ratings but they didn't test it which I thought was odd. I also thought it was odd that the IIHS gave it a "good rating" while the Europeans gave it such a poor rating. Big range in ratings.

Not criticizing. I own a couple of antiques that likely have a ZERO rating in a crash with a modern vehicle. Have fun with it.

DadJokes

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2019, 01:53:40 PM »
I've used a car dealership once, and the whole process was just slimy. I've never had a negative experience going through private seller/buyer, aside from the fact that the process takes longer.

I have bought motorcycles at a dealer before, and never felt pressure. I wonder why that is.

nereo

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #71 on: February 26, 2019, 01:55:07 PM »
Am I the only one who hates the Wrangler here?  My brother bought one as a teen and it became "my car" for a few years.  Objectively I'd have to give it below-average or failing marks on just about every category that I use to rate vehicles.  Poor fuel economy.  Horrible collision scores. Below-average cargo capacioty. Poor acceleration. Very high road noise.  Lots of wind noise at highway speeds. Bumpy ride.  Long stopping distances. Tippy.
About the only thing it seems to do well is go off-piste, and I guess if thats' your thing it's a great car.  that and some people just think it 'looks cool' (never really understood that() But for driving around on paved roads? No thank you...

Dave1442397

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #72 on: February 26, 2019, 02:06:51 PM »
Am I the only one who hates the Wrangler here?  My brother bought one as a teen and it became "my car" for a few years.  Objectively I'd have to give it below-average or failing marks on just about every category that I use to rate vehicles.  Poor fuel economy.  Horrible collision scores. Below-average cargo capacioty. Poor acceleration. Very high road noise.  Lots of wind noise at highway speeds. Bumpy ride.  Long stopping distances. Tippy.
About the only thing it seems to do well is go off-piste, and I guess if thats' your thing it's a great car.  that and some people just think it 'looks cool' (never really understood that() But for driving around on paved roads? No thank you...

Some people just like the rugged look, and will put up with the rest. I know four people who own the 4-door versions, and two of them actually do go off roading, etc. It's also nice if you like the open air experience - my neighbor takes the roof and doors off his Wrangler every summer.

I really enjoyed driving the 2-door version on St. John. They make a great island car - you can leave them open, hose the sand out, and they'll go anywhere. You never go much over 40mph, and you can't go that far anyway.

It makes no sense to me as a primary car in suburbia, though. I'm all for quiet and luxurious when stuck in traffic around here.

nereo

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #73 on: February 26, 2019, 02:12:58 PM »
Am I the only one who hates the Wrangler here?  My brother bought one as a teen and it became "my car" for a few years.  Objectively I'd have to give it below-average or failing marks on just about every category that I use to rate vehicles.  Poor fuel economy.  Horrible collision scores. Below-average cargo capacioty. Poor acceleration. Very high road noise.  Lots of wind noise at highway speeds. Bumpy ride.  Long stopping distances. Tippy.
About the only thing it seems to do well is go off-piste, and I guess if thats' your thing it's a great car.  that and some people just think it 'looks cool' (never really understood that() But for driving around on paved roads? No thank you...

Some people just like the rugged look, and will put up with the rest. I know four people who own the 4-door versions, and two of them actually do go off roading, etc. It's also nice if you like the open air experience - my neighbor takes the roof and doors off his Wrangler every summer.

I really enjoyed driving the 2-door version on St. John. They make a great island car - you can leave them open, hose the sand out, and they'll go anywhere. You never go much over 40mph, and you can't go that far anyway.

It makes no sense to me as a primary car in suburbia, though. I'm all for quiet and luxurious when stuck in traffic around here.

Yeah... If that's what people want in a vehicle then that's their choice.  For teh select few that really do off-roading, or as an 'island car' i can understand, but for everyone else I just shake my head in disbelief.  My brother was the sort that wanted the 'rugged look' (as an 18 year old) but he grew tired of it 2 years later and pawned it off on me (until I raised enough to get my own vehicle).
I guess if 'rugged' is your thing I'd still go with any number of SUVs that cost about the same but perform way better in normal driving conditions.  But I'd learned people often want things to resemble the life they dream about, not the life they have.

Sugaree

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2019, 02:24:22 PM »
I think you're either a Jeep person or you're not.  I've driven one version of a Jeep or another for 16 years now.  They are all of the things mentioned.  Loud, bumpy, rugged, and fun.  My husband inherited the two-door when I got the 4-door.  We do go off-roading a bit in them.  The smaller one more than the bigger one, though we have taken it out a few times.  And I used to live near the ocean, so the easy clean and removable top was a plus.  I rode around with the top and doors off from spring break to Thanksgiving most years. 

I was in a fairly serious wreck in the two-door and my husband in the first four-door.  We both walked away, even though the second one did set off the airbags and total it out.  They hold their value well, mainly because of Jeep cult.  I do find that the 4-door with the hard top is just as quiet as anything else.  Though that's likely in comparison to the two-door that I drove for so long.

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #75 on: February 26, 2019, 06:31:21 PM »
I have bought motorcycles at a dealer before, and never felt pressure. I wonder why that is.

In general, I think it's because most people at motorcycle dealerships ride.  Quite a few car salesmen are salesmen first, who happen to be currently selling cars for as much money as they can get.

I imagine you could find high pressure motorcycle sales at the "Bajillion Brand Megadealer" places, but even then, other than the salespeople being clueless, I haven't run into the high pressure stuff I've seen at dealerships, and the higher end brand dealerships are properly nice - show up to a BMW dealership in gear on a motorcycle, and they basically toss you the keys to whatever you want to test ride.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #76 on: February 26, 2019, 06:50:01 PM »
what can I say...she's pretty
What kind of car was this?

I've found trying to get a car with a specific set of options/color is really difficult at most dealerships. Our Subaru dealer refused to order a BRZ for me and said I could either wait for luck of the draw (them to get the right color in stock) or buy the one that was already on their lot. I ended up buying the one on their lot after they discounted the cost of all the options I didn't want. Volkswagen actually let us order a car but when it arrived it had additional options we did not ask for and the base price was higher than we had [presumably] agreed on via e-mail. We walked.

Porsche is really good about letting you custom order a car but their options are really expensive which makes it quite difficult to justify buying new. We ended up finding a nice used one at a dealership a couple states away with pretty much all the options we wanted at a significant discount (~$32k depreciation), did all the negotiations via e-mail/phone, completed paperwork via mail, and they shipped us the car. Very easy process.



Like this, but with some chrome touches that I didn't love at first, but grew on me.  They only made that color for like 6 months.  Even new, the Jeep dealer was only able to find 2 within 750 miles that he could do a dealer trade with.  The second time around was even worse.  Finally found one at Carmax.  Same year, same color, "upgraded" trim package, 70k fewer miles.

It's totally not a Mustachian car, but I love her and I make sacrifices in other places to make it work.  I strongly believe in buying exactly what I want and driving it for 10 or 12 years.

I have that color, but with what I loving refer to as my "baby jeep."  (The Renegade).  I had to special order her.  Lucky for me the US dealers around metro Detroit are ok with special ordering cars for people.

pbkmaine

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #77 on: February 26, 2019, 07:41:32 PM »
We had a horrible experience a few months ago with a local dealer. They advertised that they “weren’t like other car dealers” and then proceeded to give us the hard sell, with every “I’ll have to check with my manager” trick in the book. DH and I walked out. I was enraged. I then went to the manufacturer’s website, built the car we wanted, and clicked “contact local dealers”. I unclicked horrible dealer, but there were about six more. When they contacted me, I told them I was not going to come in to talk. I wanted their best out the door cash price. One dealer was willing to do this, and gave us a price that was $3,000 below horrible dealer, and about $1,000 lower than online pricing models had led us to expect. Easiest car purchase ever. Nice going, Orlando Kia West.

Fish Sweet

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #78 on: February 26, 2019, 09:12:45 PM »
Ran the gamut of stupid, silly dealer experiences the first and only time I tried to purchase a used car.  For reference, I'm petite and barely look old enough to have my own credit card, so I'm sure that played a factor in how the salespeople treated me.  I had one guy bump the price for a car by 3k until I showed him the online ad I'd responded to with the lower price.  Who pays 10k for a ten year old Prius with almost a hundred thousand miles?!  Apparently this guy thought I would.  Also got to deal with the run-around, told I should be "a smart girl" (BLECH) and take them up on their financing offer, all sorts of unwanted and unneeded advice about what kind of car I should buy, OH the car we advertised online isn't here for your scheduled drive but here are three more that are double the price, and why the online price advertised ~isn't the real one~ for Reasons etc.etc.etc.

Anyway, the dealership that got my business was a salesman who managed to not condescend to me during the test drive or the process afterward, just told me to put the car through its paces and he'd answer any questions I had.  I liked the price enough to not want to haggle, but wasn't ready to buy same-day.  He asked me what it would take to close the deal, I told him, and he made it happen.  Financing guy didn't try to talk me into a loan, just took my cash and my credit cards, and we shook on it.  A year and a half later, I still love my new car, and think fondly on the whole transaction.

Sugaree

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #79 on: February 27, 2019, 04:19:37 AM »
I have that color, but with what I loving refer to as my "baby jeep."  (The Renegade).  I had to special order her.  Lucky for me the US dealers around metro Detroit are ok with special ordering cars for people.


Yeah, the Renegade is the only other model I've seen with this color.  Do you like it?

I don't understand why the Commando wasn't more popular than it was.  Jeeps should always be available in something resembling an Army green.  Rescue green wasn't quite it.  Too metallic and too yellow-ish.  Tank (the 2015 green) was close, and what I was considering the second time around if I hadn't been able to find another Commando green.  But 90% of what was available in my area was white, black, red, or silver.  Yawn.

dignam

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #80 on: February 27, 2019, 06:50:27 AM »
I've only bought one new car in my life (probably never again).  Sales guy wasn't exactly sleazy, but did try every trick in the book.  The whole 4 square BS, "what kind of payment can you afford", etc.  Not that it was a huge deal because I was buying a just above base trim economy car with a manual transmission and hardly any options.  They REALLY tried to push the add ons (like $3k for some protectant they put on the seats and another for the paint...come on!).  Just had to tell them "no" about 27 times. 

My best experience was buying a 5 year old CPO car from a dealership last year (thanks previous owner for eating the $34k depreciation).  I had been looking for months, saw one pop up online that had exactly what I was looking for (black, turbo inline 6 cyl, AWD with a manual transmission...love that thing).  Went in as soon as I could, and was signing for it in about an hour for exactly the price they had listed, which was fairly priced to begin with.  They were really friendly and straightforward.  I told them straight up monthly payment doesn't mean anything to me as I'll probably just pay it off right away if I finance so they didn't try any of the normal BS.  Funny thing was, as we were wrapping things up I heard another sales guy tell someone on the phone that the car I just bought was no longer available.

Also paying cash for cheaper private party cars has always been easy and a good experience.  Just gotta do your homework and be open with the seller.

My GF also recently leased a new economy car.  Those terms generally aren't negotiable as much; that process wasn't too bad either.

+1 for the Jeep army green.  I LOVE that color on Jeeps; the Commander looked really good in it.  That model didn't fair so well as it was too similar to the Grand Cherokee.  Even the engine options available for both were identical (3.7 v6, 4.7 v8 or 5.7 v8)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 06:58:04 AM by dignam »

ducky19

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #81 on: February 27, 2019, 09:55:05 AM »
Am I the only one who hates the Wrangler here?  My brother bought one as a teen and it became "my car" for a few years.  Objectively I'd have to give it below-average or failing marks on just about every category that I use to rate vehicles.  Poor fuel economy.  Horrible collision scores. Below-average cargo capacioty. Poor acceleration. Very high road noise.  Lots of wind noise at highway speeds. Bumpy ride.  Long stopping distances. Tippy.
About the only thing it seems to do well is go off-piste, and I guess if thats' your thing it's a great car.  that and some people just think it 'looks cool' (never really understood that() But for driving around on paved roads? No thank you...

Some people just like the rugged look, and will put up with the rest. I know four people who own the 4-door versions, and two of them actually do go off roading, etc. It's also nice if you like the open air experience - my neighbor takes the roof and doors off his Wrangler every summer.

I really enjoyed driving the 2-door version on St. John. They make a great island car - you can leave them open, hose the sand out, and they'll go anywhere. You never go much over 40mph, and you can't go that far anyway.

It makes no sense to me as a primary car in suburbia, though. I'm all for quiet and luxurious when stuck in traffic around here.

+1 as an island car - every time we've been to St. Croix, we always rent a Jeep. There's literally only one road that you can get to 55 mph on, everything else is usually 30-40. If you want to go anywhere in the rainforest, you need the clearance as the roads can be extremely iffy. When we eventually move there, we will own a Jeep for sure.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #82 on: February 28, 2019, 05:26:14 AM »
I have that color, but with what I loving refer to as my "baby jeep."  (The Renegade).  I had to special order her.  Lucky for me the US dealers around metro Detroit are ok with special ordering cars for people.


Yeah, the Renegade is the only other model I've seen with this color.  Do you like it?

I don't understand why the Commando wasn't more popular than it was.  Jeeps should always be available in something resembling an Army green.  Rescue green wasn't quite it.  Too metallic and too yellow-ish.  Tank (the 2015 green) was close, and what I was considering the second time around if I hadn't been able to find another Commando green.  But 90% of what was available in my area was white, black, red, or silver.  Yawn.

I do like it.  My off road goals were are not to be a Jeep person but to be able to access any trail I want.  (So it's likely to be used on fire roads but not true offroading). I have always wanted a Jeep but was put off by the MPG.  The Renegade does get better on it but it's probably the biggest disappointment I have.  (I'm at about 25MPG with 50/50 highway city driving).  Plus it has a lot of hatchback like features for a small vehicle.  Feels very roomy inside, with the back seats folded down I can transport a lot of stuff, but it is actually 5 inches shorter than my Jetta was so it's also easy to parallel park.  I think I could have gotten the  color and trim I wanted without the special order, but to add on the Cold Weather Package and the Tow package ONLY was the main issue.

westcountrybeerman

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Re: Car salespeople... Jesus.
« Reply #83 on: March 03, 2019, 12:11:35 PM »
I had to chime in after seeing the posts about 0% financing and whether it's a good deal or not...

I'm in the UK and have just bought a new delivery van for my day job (commercial sale, company paying, I just found the van) and when I enquired about their 0% finance deal versus us financing it ourselves the sales guy sent me an email with the numbers. 

The interest over 3yrs on their standard finance deal was something like £1800 but if you went for their 0% deal they increased the base cost of the vehicle by £2,300 so you actually paid more... we'd had a good chat and he knew I had my FD and MD looking over the deal before signing anything so didn't bother trying to hide it.